#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-08-22

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:09] <AmyS3> well im off now. gotta work tomorrow cya
[0:09] * AmyS3 (bc1da9c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #raspberrypi
[0:15] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:19] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] <Thorn_> Does anyone know what the difference between the I2C pinouts and GPIO pinouts is ?
[0:35] <ukscone> yes one has the letter c and the number 2 in it the other has a g a p and an o in it
[0:36] <Thorn_> heh
[0:37] <Thorn_> I (guess) the i2c is designed more for connecting other chips with a fast interface to the processor
[0:37] <Thorn_> (emphasis on guess)
[0:39] <ukscone> and "daisy chaining" chips on a single "bus"
[0:39] <ukscone> single bus can talk to several chips
[0:40] <Thorn_> interesting
[0:40] <Thorn_> i wonder if it'll be possible to hook up something like a Sil3132 esata chip on an external board via i2c then
[0:44] <mdavey> Thorn_: yup mdavey is Michael
[0:44] <Thorn_> heh :)
[0:44] <Thorn_> hi
[0:45] <ukscone> better pass ops over to you then
[0:45] <ukscone> once i work out how the hell to do it
[0:46] * ChanServ sets mode +o mdavey
[0:46] <ukscone> not sure if it sticks though
[0:47] <Thorn_> you need to add him to the channel access list and transfer channel ownership afaik (which requires mdavey to have a nickserv account)
[0:47] <mdavey> you can keep ops for the moment - I'm only a moderator on the forum, not Raspberry staff.
[0:47] <ukscone> mdavey: ok
[0:47] <mdavey> oh, wel thanks anyway :D
[0:48] <ukscone> ok this is getting really annoying -- ther eis no free s/w for fixing a seemingly unformated ntfs drive in place
[0:48] <ukscone> bloody cats
[0:48] <mdavey> regarding I2C, its a low speed serial bus invented by Philips.
[0:49] <ukscone> one formated my external hd for me and it had all my offline backups and i need some of them immediately
[0:49] <Thorn_> ukscone: mkfs -t ntfs3g /dev/sdx ?
[0:49] <Thorn_> oh fixing
[0:49] <ukscone> Thorn_: won't help as i need the files one the disk and linux doesn't recognise the disk
[0:50] <ukscone> says no ntfs signature
[0:50] <Thorn_> i'd advice torrenting a copy of ontrack disk recovery and buying it after you realise how awesome it
[0:50] <mdavey> Its often used to talk to other peripherals, such as serial eeprom, real-time clock or a serial ID device.
[0:50] <Thorn_> is
[0:50] <ukscone> the files are all there but all teh s/w requires money to actually recover the files not that i have a spare 2tb disk to copy them too
[0:50] <ukscone> and battery controller chips
[0:51] <Thorn_> mdavey: ah, so probably not useful for attaching to other highspeed chips such as sil3132/esata?
[0:51] <Thorn_> Supports connection to a SATA II-compliant Storage Enclosure Processor (SEP) via on-chip I2C interface
[0:51] <mdavey> uh-huh - and lots of other similar devices such as fan controllers and temperature probes. Like USB, you can have many devices sitting on the same bus.
[0:52] <mdavey> Which is great as you don't have to use different GPIOs to talk to each one.
[0:53] <Thorn_> ok
[0:53] <mdavey> Some chips use I2C as well as another bus - so they use I2C for command and control but a fast bus to transfer the actual data. DVB tuners are a good example of this - the actual picture comes over a fast bus but the channel change commands are often sent over I2C.
[0:55] <mdavey> I'm not familiar with sil3132.
[0:56] <Thorn_> It's just a lowend PCI-Express->2port sata controller commonly used with external DAS enclosures
[0:56] <Thorn_> http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?pid=32
[0:58] <Thorn_> I have absolutely no experience with how all this stuff really works on the hardware end, was just trying to find out what is possible and what isn't :D
[1:03] <mdavey> The R.Pi CPU doesn't provide a PCI interface, so the best bet for SATA is a USB to SATA adaptor.
[1:04] <mdavey> It *might* be possible to hang something off the high-speed GPIO pins, but that would likely require a lot of low-level device driver work.
[1:05] <Thorn_> the driver work doesn't worry me too much, knowing it's *possible* would be a great start :D
[1:05] <Thorn_> On that note, what kind of bandwidth can be pushed through the gpio pins, and how much current?
[1:07] <Thorn_> (I guess information like this should probably be discussed on the forum)
[1:08] <mdavey> very little current. Bandwidth depends on whether the GPIO pins are high speed or not. Usually there is a mix provided by the CPU core, some of which get used up when people like Broadcom build their SoC around the core, and some more get used up for things like reset switches, LED indicators and wiring up peripherals.
[1:09] <mdavey> If you need more current and you don't need really high speeds, you can of course gate the GPIO through an external high-speed transistor.
[1:09] <Thorn_> ok
[1:10] <mdavey> Take a look at the accessories for Arduino and Beagleboard - that will give you an idea of the addon boards that we may eventually see for Raspberry Pi.
[1:16] <ukscone> personaly i think people are expecting too of the R-Pi and trying to do too much with it (in their heads anyway) i think it should be kept as simple as possible and let people as close to the actual hardware as possible :) -- all the possible addons and stuff will be nice but i think it partially defeats the point of the device -- i may just be a grouchy dinosaur who pines for the Z80 and writing machine code by hand :)
[1:17] <ukscone> but still if you could use a zx81 to run a nuclear power station a R-Pi should be able to handle 8 of them :)
[1:18] <Thorn_> ukscone: heh, that's just it - I don't expect the r.pi team to supply us with this stuff, but it would be cool if the end user was able to do this kind of cool stuff
[1:18] <Thorn_> And in the process, teach himself quite far into the workings of the hardware
[1:20] <Thorn_> imo allowing the user to play with the hardware is just as important as letting the user toy with the software :)
[1:20] <ukscone> i'm also biased too as i'm a software bod, yes i can cope with simple soldering and following instructions but i'm more comfertable with the s/w
[1:21] <mdavey> I partially agree with you. You may have noticed I have referred people to other projects a few times when they've said things like "I need it to have 3 ethernet so I can make it into a firewall appliance" or "I need it to have SATA so I can turn it into a NAS appliance". However, R.Pi will only be successful if the community gets behind it and in particular if early adoptors and hackers...
[1:21] <mdavey> ...try to use it. This means encouraging 3rd parties to build addon boards to do nifty stuff that meets the needs of the hobbyist.
[1:21] <ukscone> i really want to be able to use the R-Pi without a layer of linux on top of it. i want something almost instant power on with a language prompt with access to graphics (framebuffer) and sound hardware i.e. 80s home micro
[1:23] <ukscone> i don't think it's lack of hardware exposure that is causing the problem that the raspberry people are trying to solve i think it's the lack of being able to get your hands directy and talk to the hardware and have to learn how to shave a few bytes off a program to get it to fit
[1:23] <Thorn_> ukscone: that's probably not too much work, i read some tutorials a while ago on basic OS development (still using the grub bootloader though) however there might be an issue with that proprietry kernel module for the multimedia part of the GPU?
[1:23] <mdavey> And this poses a small problem for the team, because on the one hand they want to encourage a strong vibrand community but on the other hand they have to be intensely focussed on the $25 price point and needs of the educational market. In some places, these two markets will pull them in different directions. But they've already shown an expert skill at walking that thin line just right.
[1:23] <Thorn_> mdavey: yup, the more nifty stuff you can do with it, the better the education value and chance of getting it into schools imo
[1:23] <ukscone> yup i'm a bit worried about the gpu for baremetal access but hopefully the drivers and firmware can be used without linux overhead
[1:25] <Thorn_> but atleast in the UK, education is currently very inflexible and regardless of the success of the r.pi i think it will be _very difficult_ to get it into the education sector
[1:27] <ukscone> could be worse could be NYC "test to the test" mentality wheree the kids have eexams and tests almost evry 6 weeks if you include all th practice tests and stuff
[1:27] <Thorn_> ? that's the same here
[1:27] <Thorn_> they're called 'NABS'
[1:27] <mdavey> I don't. What worries me is that the kit won't be used day-in, day-out but just a few days a year. We had these modular electronics kits when I was at school. You could bolt the kits together in different ways to build up really quite complex electronic circuits such as a calculator or geigger counter.
[1:28] <ukscone> my son was at a school that was suppsoed to teach them resarch skilsl to become researchers ventually that was all scraped and no internships because every six weeks they had some type of standardized test to pass
[1:28] <Thorn_> When I was at school the rector said in these exact words
[1:29] <Thorn_> 'We teach you how to pass an exam, not a subject'
[1:29] <ukscone> mdavey: we had a dec mini at my high school. they could only afford to turn it on for 1 day a year thank goodness for the rml380z's and beeb's and atari400s and spectrums or we'd never have got to play
[1:29] <mdavey> Each module cost between ??3 and ??25 and to build some of the more interesting things you needed 20 or so modules. Working in pairs, that was a lot of kit. But we only got to use it for 8-12 lessons I should think. The rest of the time, it sat in a cupboard.
[1:29] <ukscone> when i went to school i did at least 15 subjects -- in my sons school he did 7
[1:30] <Thorn_> mdavey: They would most likely have to replace the computers in the computing classes
[1:30] <Thorn_> Which down to practicality isn't actually difficult - all they teach nowadays is word processing (infact my Higher computing was 90% wordprocessing and spreadsheet oriented)
[1:31] <mdavey> UK schools don't teach computing any more - that is one of the main reasons that Eben & David & co started up Raspberry Pi.
[1:31] <Thorn_> yep
[1:32] <mdavey> Can't remember where I read it but apparently one of the founders was quoted as saying something to the effect of "When I was at school, we would have called that lesson 'Typing'"
[1:32] <ukscone> need to get them included as toys in boxes of weetabix or ready brek
[1:34] <ukscone> we never actually had computer classes at high school -- 1979 to 1982 but we did have computer club and computers in the math dept.
[1:34] <mdavey> And they are right - why are we teaching our children such basic clerical skills - why aren't we teaching them how to write computer games or even troubleshooting skills?
[1:35] <Thorn_> Because the upper class want to make sure people stay dumb so they can continue being tyrannical and poorly running the country, it's all part of a larger conspiracy!
[1:35] <ukscone> i sort of see the bedroom programming of the 80s in the android and iOS markets but not as may kids doing it
[1:35] <ukscone> Thorn_: power to the people and up the revolution :)
[1:35] <mdavey> ukscone: excellent idea! I remember saving weetabix barcodes to buy adventure books and the like.
[1:36] <ukscone> it'd be raspberry pi flavoured weetabix :)
[1:37] <Thorn_> ukscone: power to the revolution? I'd die to punch david cameron in the face !
[1:37] <ukscone> i think gtting the r-pi into something similar to a crael box give away or the scholastic books program they hav in junior and high schools or the like would be good but 15 quid is pushing it for something like that
[1:38] <ukscone> Thorn_: i'd sponser you too
[1:38] <ukscone> that's it a sponsered punch cameron in the fac
[1:38] <ukscone> 10p per punch
[1:38] <Thorn_> haha
[1:38] <Thorn_> there's probably an app for that
[1:38] <ukscone> if not someone has to write itr
[1:38] <ukscone> s/itr/it
[1:38] <Thorn_> probably the best use of a touchscreen to date
[1:39] <Thorn_> :D
[1:39] <ukscone> but you'd need that gorilla glass otherwise you'd smash it
[1:39] <ukscone> Thorn_: i think we've just had an idea to make our fortunes
[1:40] <ukscone> an app that lets you punch politians in the face with addons that let you add others to to be the punchee
[1:40] <Thorn_> excellent
[1:40] <ukscone> we'd be rolling in it by weeks end after release
[1:41] <Thorn_> a bit of good initial advertising and it'd be a worldwide hit
[1:41] <Thorn_> We better hurry up before someone reads the irc logs and steals our ideas
[1:41] <Thorn_> The second problem is that's fine for android - but to sell an app in the iphone market you need to pay a $200 initial fee i think
[1:41] <ukscone> yeah, on the phone to an android programmr friend as i type
[1:42] <ukscone> thought it was $99
[1:42] <Thorn_> is it?
[1:42] <Thorn_> probably
[1:42] <ukscone> think so but not an iOS dev so not 100% sure
[1:43] <Thorn_> $99/year
[2:54] * DaQatz (~DB@2001:55c:1822:86bf:dead:babe:feed:beef) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:21] <Thorn_> http://www.happyplace.com/9574/grammar-test-keeps-idiots-off-of-the-internet Just what the world has been waiting for :)
[7:43] <Psoden> harr
[7:44] <Psoden> Too bad that r.pi can't run xbmc :(
[7:44] <Psoden> at least i think it cant
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[10:58] <amandarn> 'morning
[11:02] <jzu> hi
[11:03] <amandarn> how are you ?
[11:12] <jzu> fine, thx
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[16:56] <ukscone> morning all
[16:57] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[16:57] <Thorn_> afternoon
[16:57] <Thorn_> aw, missed him
[16:58] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:58] <ukscone> aarrgghh m*****f*****g mouse excuse my french
[16:59] <Thorn_> hehe
[17:05] * zz_RobinJ is now known as RobinJ
[17:08] <ukscone> stiiiiiiiiill trying to recover the files from my backup hd -- looks like another 12 hours before i'll know if i can at least recover the vm i need for work
[17:09] <ukscone> once i get that back i can finish the project, get paid, by a new external hd and recover the rest of the files
[17:29] * DaQatz (~DB@2001:55c:1822:86bf:dead:babe:feed:beef) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:31] <gerits> what os are you running?
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[17:52] <ukscone> btw if anyone is in the uk dixons will be selling the hp touchpad online for 89 quid and 115 quid -- more expensive than in the states when discounted but still a great deal
[17:52] <ukscone> the website with those prices is about to go live any time now
[17:52] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[17:57] [DaQatz VERSION]
[17:59] <Prolix> o.0
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[18:02] <qzx> \o/
[18:04] <DaQatz> /o\
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[18:13] <qzx> Can't remember the last time I was this excited about some hardware
[18:16] * zz_RobinJ is now known as RobinJ
[18:17] <DaQatz> Yeah will be nice, with it's cost and size it will have a lot of uses.
[18:19] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[18:29] <DaQatz> Bad connection ukscone?
[18:29] <qzx> Just the thought of adding a little 3g module, USB to Serial converter and a nice little casing to have remote access to almost any equipment anywhere, no more trying to guide 3rd party cable guys through equipment configuration
[18:30] <ukscone> DaQatz: not but mouse keeps freezing and have to go into sleep to get it back -- noo idea why it's freezing but it started happeening after a chrome updatew
[18:30] <DaQatz> =)
[18:30] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[18:30] <qzx> "just connect the Configate to the [UPS, Router, Switch, Server]"]
[18:31] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:31] <DaQatz> Ukscone that kinda sucks, but sounds like it may be caused by more then a chrome update.
[18:31] <DaQatz> That is unless it's a very low spec computer, and chrome is doing lots of script work.
[18:32] <ukscone> yes but no idea what but it started happening immediatly after a chrome update literally 30 econds later
[18:32] <DaQatz> Oi
[18:32] <qzx> Chrome has been falling behind lately in stability
[18:33] <ukscone> i could literally point to the exact second it started and it was immediatly after chrome had restarted
[18:33] <DaQatz> Heh
[18:33] <DaQatz> What OS are you using?
[18:33] <ukscone> so cause and effect seems to blame chrome but there could be other things too especially as sleep fixes it for a while
[18:33] <ukscone> windohs!
[18:33] <DaQatz> Xp, Vista, 7?
[18:34] <ukscone> the pig with it atm is i am runnign a program to recover data from a fubar external hd at the moment too so sleeping isn't a good idea
[18:34] <ukscone> vista
[18:34] <DaQatz> Hmm
[18:34] <DaQatz> Vista does have lots of issues.
[18:35] <DaQatz> But since I can't do little tests hard to say what is doing it.
[18:36] <ukscone> i've never had a problem with vista at all
[18:36] <DaQatz> Something as little as a program doing a registry tweak while installing can make a big diff.
[18:36] <DaQatz> Well that's good.
[18:36] <qzx> windows quality comes in a wave pattern through time, Vista, just like ME were two lows on the wave, where as 3.11, 2k and 7 are on the up route
[18:36] <DaQatz> Xp worked fine for me, and so does 7. Never had Vista co-operate
[18:36] <ukscone> once i have my external hd back up i'll do a clean wipe -- if it wasn't for the wife and kid there is no way i'd berunnign windows anyway but they need windows for work and college
[18:37] * DaQatz nods.
[18:37] <ukscone> the only thing wrong with vista is the hw manufactuers didn't under stand it and fucked up on their drivers
[18:37] <DaQatz> Could be
[18:38] <ukscone> and it was too different for most people who are just casual users -- stabiltywise and doing what i needed it was/is fine
[18:38] <DaQatz> MS messed up a number of drivers for it too.
[18:38] <qzx> Mostly the closed source hardware as well, since MS didn't get a chance to make their own drivers
[18:38] <ukscone> aarrgghhh f***ing mouse
[18:38] <ukscone> brb
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[18:39] <DaQatz> ukscone, Yeah sounds like you should wipe and upgrade/downgrade to Xp or 7.
[18:39] <DaQatz> 7 is better imo.
[18:40] <ukscone> 7 won't run on this hp laptop -- well it will but no way am i buying it
[18:40] <DaQatz> Ah
[18:40] <DaQatz> Hardware wise if vista will run 7 will run.
[18:40] <ukscone> if i could get the wife's itunes to her computer and the kid to use his own for printing and coursework
[18:41] <ukscone> linux be on here in a shot although linux doesn't like this laptop much eithere
[18:41] <ukscone> i tried the 7 beta's no end of problems with the hardware
[18:41] <DaQatz> I tried 7's beta too. It was a lot like Vista
[18:42] <DaQatz> The release version isn't as buggy.
[18:42] <ukscone> i have one of the hp crippled and fubar'ed laptops that they lied about the bugs in it and tookt he money to fix it and ran
[18:42] <ukscone> read hplies.com sometime
[18:42] <DaQatz> Maybe it's time for a hardware upgrade then.
[18:42] <ukscone> if i could afford it i would.
[18:42] <qzx> you can soon enough
[18:42] <qzx> 25$
[18:42] <qzx> Am I right.
[18:43] <ukscone> i need this to keep runnign for another few years as at the rate of saving i have over 800 weeks until i can afford a new one
[18:44] <DaQatz> I take it you either can only save a few cents a day, or want a higher end laptop?
[18:46] <ukscone> i paid 700 for this but i am a househusband who does odd jobs so no steady income and a kid in university with student loans up the wazoo
[18:47] <ukscone> so i expect to pay about 700 again for a decent replacement
[18:47] * DaQatz nods.
[18:47] <DaQatz> Yeah been there with the odd jobs.
[18:47] <ukscone> fricking mouse -- cna't reboot as i'm into the 24th hour of what looks like it'll take 30+ hours to run of a file recovery session
[18:48] <DaQatz> And 700 should get a "decent" one but not high end.
[18:48] <ukscone> wife earns a good wage but rent and food and kid in uni is expensive
[18:48] <ukscone> brb sleep mode
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[18:50] <DaQatz> Though a low end Laptop seems like it would be better then what you're doing now.
[18:50] <DaQatz> Is it a touchpad you're using?
[18:50] <DaQatz> If so have you tried plugging a mouse in to see if that helps?
[18:52] <ukscone> nope not got any spare mice atm
[18:53] <ukscone> yup synaptics touchpad
[18:53] <DaQatz> Dang
[18:53] <DaQatz> hardware starved.
[18:53] <ukscone> yup 90% of my hardware are trash day specials
[18:53] <ukscone> or freecycle rescues
[18:54] <ukscone> the laptop was the first "new" computer i bought in 22 years :)
[18:54] <DaQatz> Ah yes.
[18:54] <ukscone> before that the last computer i bought was an olivetti m15 in 1986
[18:54] <DaQatz> I had a server I called the "Dumpster dingy"
[18:54] <DaQatz> I got it "diving"
[18:54] <ukscone> :)
[18:55] <DaQatz> It's previous owner had tossed it because it was virus riddled, and they had no clue how to re-install.
[18:55] <DaQatz> Made a great linux box.
[18:55] <ukscone> 923,184,900 of 1,560,794,953 blocks scanned -- that has been running since 4pm yesterday
[18:56] <ukscone> 24152 lost files found, 1016320 files found
[18:56] <DaQatz> Oi
[18:56] <DaQatz> What happened to that thing?
[18:56] <DaQatz> No wonder it's having issues.
[18:56] <ukscone> i'll collect my pension before this fnishes and even then i still have to find 1.5TB of hd to rescue the files too
[18:57] <ukscone> this is the external hard disk that the cats decided needed a quick format
[18:57] <DaQatz> \Ah
[18:57] <ukscone> i was formatting some flash drives and the cat jumped on the keyboard and changed the drive letter to the external hd
[18:57] <ukscone> and his butt hit enter
[18:58] <DaQatz> Usinjg recuva?
[18:58] <DaQatz> using*
[18:58] <ukscone> it wa sonyl a quick format so the files are all there and if i knew how to unformat the disk in place i'd do that but not found anything freewarewise that will -- one app would but it's 100 bucks
[18:59] <ukscone> recover my files atm, tried disk internals ntfs recovery and looked great but costs 100 bucks for the version that will actually fix the disk
[18:59] <DaQatz> Rebuilding the file table is not a simple task.
[18:59] <ukscone> rather thna show me that it could
[19:00] <ukscone> most of the files i don't really care about -- yes it would be nice not to redownload them but this was my offline backup for files i wasn't using atm but might need to soon and one is really important and some of the others can't be reproduced
[19:01] <DaQatz> Recuva has always worked well for me for getting back files.
[19:01] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[19:02] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:03] <ukscone> 3 guesses
[19:03] <ukscone> bloody mouse
[19:05] <DaQatz> What are your plans for the R-Pi?
[19:07] <ukscone> several
[19:07] <DaQatz> Well I think most of us have more then one idea.
[19:08] <ukscone> one i want to use as baremetal as i can with a classic 8bit micro BASIC interpreter. one for emulating several 8bit z80 based micros and cp/m maybe in classic compouter cases and the others i am not sure about but probably small single use systems with lua and python and sdl and basic on
[19:09] <DaQatz> Hmm
[19:09] <DaQatz> So basically emulation on programming.
[19:09] <ukscone> i want to try to do without the linux layer if at all possible while retaining video and sound i.e. have a system like we used as kids where we were able to control the vertical, control the horizontal......
[19:10] <DaQatz> You may have to write you're own simple kernel then.
[19:10] <ukscone> no problem done it before although did have u-boot to do some stuff but u-boot is good for getting out of the way and booting any elf binary file
[19:11] <DaQatz> Or modify your interpretors/emulators to run like one.
[19:11] <DaQatz> You could also use a simple linux kernel with no userland. Just have it boot direct to the program.
[19:11] <ukscone> yup i'd probably have to pull in the binary blob for speakign to the gpu into the interpreter but shouldn't be too hard to handle that
[19:12] <DaQatz> Then again, ARM is pretty nice bare metal.
[19:12] <DaQatz> Arm asm is so clean compared to x86
[19:13] <ukscone> i just don't want linux on there if i can at all help it. one or two sd cards will have full linux distro on it but that's not what i want from the r-pi and i think it's more value for learning if kids (and people) are kids people? can get as low level as possible. linux will do them good too but i want people to understand how and why things work
[19:14] * DaQatz nods.
[19:15] <ukscone> and from what has been said on the boards if the graphics hardware can be handled the actual arm side of things is almost like the old micros where the pc on cold or warm boot was just a call to 0x0000(0000)
[19:15] <ukscone> so you load your arm code into memory space at 0x00000000 and when the conmtrol is passed tot he arm processor it starts executing from there
[19:16] * DaQatz nods.
[19:16] <DaQatz> Yeah
[19:16] <ukscone> i'm really loving the idea of an ARM CP/M port :)
[19:17] <ukscone> wouldn't you like CP/M on your cellphone? talk about coolness factor and 1337n355 :)
[19:18] <DaQatz> I don't have a cell phone. Don't really like them.
[19:19] <DaQatz> Look what I found http://www.eluaproject.net/doc/v0.8/en_tut_bootpc.html
[19:19] <DaQatz> ELua "boot into" Lua with no OS.
[19:19] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[19:20] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:20] <ukscone> yup seen that, used it on a couple of things
[19:21] <DaQatz> Yeah looks handy for what you want.
[19:33] <ukscone> aarrgghh mouse die!!!!!!!!!
[19:37] <DaQatz> I thought it kept doing that.
[19:39] <ukscone> ok usb mouse that is 90% broken is working but not the touchpad
[19:40] <ukscone> so it has to be something with the drivers and chrome?
[19:40] <ukscone> ok tp is back
[19:40] <ukscone> fricking annoying
[19:41] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[19:43] <DaQatz> I bet it is.
[19:45] <ukscone> once i get my files back and i finish this job i think i'll tell the wife and kid to get their crap of my computer and just put linux on it and have done with it
[19:45] <ukscone> have to give it a good going over too
[19:46] <ukscone> fricking tp froze again
[19:51] * RobinJ is now known as zz_RobinJ
[20:00] * AmyS3 (5ec57fc3@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:00] * AmyS3 (5ec57fc3@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Client Quit)
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[20:01] <AmyS3> greetings earthlings ^^
[20:02] <Thorn_> some of us martians feel left out of your greetings :(
[20:05] <ukscone> Thorn_: just learn the art of eeky thump and bash him around the head with a black pudding and as black puddings are hard to come by use a haggis
[20:07] <ukscone> Before Jeremy Clarkson became a journalist he sold Paddington Bears for a living --- lol
[20:10] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:20] <AmyS3> im sorry.. greetings universelings..
[20:20] <AmyS3> or space creatures..?
[20:21] <DaQatz> We're all in "space" we just happen to be riding planets.
[20:22] <AmyS3> ukscone: id rather get bashed by pudding..
[20:22] <AmyS3> yeah.. ride that planet... yeeehaaa
[20:24] <DaQatz> We're all in "space" we just happen to be riding planets.
[20:24] <DaQatz> Oops
[20:24] <DaQatz> push up arrow in wrong chan
[20:25] * gerits (~ruben@d54C3837B.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:26] <AmyS3> hehe
[20:26] <AmyS3> hey gerits.. is that your real name?
[20:30] <AmyS3> ah ithmm..
[20:30] <gerits> that's my lastname
[20:30] <AmyS3> just seen it.. youre ruben..
[20:30] <AmyS3> i just askewd since my first name is gerrit
[20:31] <AmyS3> ^^
[20:52] <AmyS3> its so quiet here.. kinda scary..
[20:53] <ukscone> sssshhhhhhhh people are trying to sleep in here
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[21:03] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:09] <AmyS3> eeek.. sry..
[21:09] <gerits> you could start by giving a topic to talk about ;)
[21:09] * DaQatz (~DB@2001:55c:1822:86bf:dead:babe:feed:beef) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[21:10] <gerits> I just played the ld48 entry of notch, that would be one game that can easily be played on the raspberry pi
[21:13] <AmyS3> hmm.. never heard about that game..
[21:14] <gerits> if you haven't heard of notch, markus persson, he is the creator of the popular game "minecraft"
[21:15] <AmyS3> argh.. now that you say that.. lol i love minecraft..
[21:15] <gerits> he now made a game for as a contest entry in 48 hours and did a live stream of the proces
[21:16] <AmyS3> ahh those competitions are quite nice sometimes... well not for myself but the outcome is often pretty funny
[21:16] <gerits> the game can be played at: https://s3.amazonaws.com/ld48/index.html
[21:16] <AmyS3> kilck
[21:17] <AmyS3> loading..
[21:17] <gerits> I was quite impressed in what he could accomplish in just 48 hours
[21:17] <AmyS3> dunno.. still loading XD
[21:18] <AmyS3> we should thread him to code minecraft for arm.. well the raspi ^^
[21:18] <AmyS3> uh.. finnished loading..
[21:18] <gerits> minecraft will be impossible
[21:19] <gerits> I installed minecraft on my netbook, added some mods to make it look more crappy and then it runs with all settings at low
[21:19] <gerits> still some lag from time to time
[21:20] <gerits> maybe the classic version would work on the raspi, because that is about the same version as on android (sony xperia play)
[21:22] * Qatz is now known as DaQatz
[21:24] <mdavey> hello peeps
[21:33] <Thorn_> It would atleast be possible to run a minecraft server using the #mineserver project
[21:33] <Thorn_> Hi mdavey :)
[21:34] <gerits> actually, for minecraft server you would still need about 1gb of memory
[21:35] <Thorn_> For the official server yes
[21:35] <Thorn_> But I mentioned the #mineserver project, which has been benchmarked to run around 50 people in 70mb RES
[21:36] <gerits> ow nice, hadn't heard of that one yet, then it
[21:36] <gerits> 's very likely that I will install it
[21:36] <gerits> * I pressed my enter key to soon
[21:36] <Thorn_> It's not complete unfortunately :(
[21:36] <Thorn_> no redstone and carts
[21:37] <Thorn_> ah actual specs
[21:37] <Thorn_> http://mineserver.be/forums/index.php?topic=135.0
[21:38] <gerits> a belgian project :)
[21:38] <Thorn_> just .be domain, the devs are mostly finnish afaik
[21:38] <Thorn_> Psoden is one of them
[21:38] <mdavey> Quote of the day from raspberrypi.org comments: "this will be huge, especially if you can make it smaller."
[21:39] <Thorn_> haha
[21:42] <gerits> even if they would be as big as a mini-itx motherboard, they are still 10 times cheaper
[21:43] <AmyS3> ahh im dead...
[21:44] <AmyS3> only 8 trinkets found..
[21:44] <AmyS3> hi guys..
[21:44] <mdavey> hello AmyS3
[21:45] <Thorn_> vvvvvv?
[21:46] <AmyS3> ok using a usb kvm switch, and switch between pc??s while installing windows on one of them is crap.. the bloody install routine lost the keyboard..
[21:47] <AmyS3> be back in 15 minutes..
[21:47] <gerits> don't install windows
[21:51] * AmyS3 (5ec57fc3@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:58] <gerits> for a raspi device, would it be better to use gentoo or debian?
[22:00] <Thorn_> This doesn't answer your question, but afaik if you want debian you want debian-armel not debian arm due to fpu support (I think)
[22:00] <Thorn_> which isn't 100% supported
[22:04] <gerits> debian would be my preferred choise, but you'll probably have to compile a lot of programs yourself, that's why gentoo could be better for this
[22:04] <gerits> but that's just a thought that came in my head
[22:06] <mdavey> They are very hard to compare. Compiling programs on the ARM is likely to be slow compared to cross compiling them on a PC.
[22:07] <gerits> so gentoo would probably take a day to compile (that is basic installation without any applications)
[22:08] <Thorn_> How would you crosscompile for a raspberrypi?
[22:08] <Thorn_> Something like qemu arm emulation ?
[22:10] <gerits> with some cross compile tools...
[22:10] <DaQatz> Gentoo has a good cross compiling environment.
[22:11] <DaQatz> In fact setting up a gentoo VM for cross compiling atm.
[22:17] <gerits> if I had something more than a netbook available I would probably do the same
[22:28] <DaQatz> Does your netbook run linux?
[22:32] <gerits> yes, arch linux, with openbox gui
[22:33] <gerits> starts up in 20 seconds
[22:35] <gerits> and a vm runs perfectly fine on it, but not fast enough for my standards with using multiple applications at the same time
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These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.