#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-08-27

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <traeak> i bought one of those electricity kits for my 8yro daughter to play with
[0:00] <traeak> got her reading older books, etc
[0:00] <ReggieUK> my son lives with his mother, I hardly have any involvement in his education as such, all I can do is encourage him in the right directions and hope he listens
[0:00] <traeak> ReggieUK: I'm in a similar boat with my oldest daughter
[0:01] <traeak> thankfully she got accepted into a preparatory academy
[0:01] <traeak> so not all is lost
[0:01] <ReggieUK> he does have an aptitude for maths and IT though so it's semi encouraging
[0:01] <ReggieUK> but if he doesn't make the effort now he will not get all the things he wants for himself in life
[0:01] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, I am not sure that's true.
[0:02] <ReggieUK> and life on the dole isn't as peachy as everyone thinks
[0:02] <Thorn_> oh it is
[0:02] <Thorn_> they even pay your rent for you now!
[0:02] <traeak> really kids need to be trained about how to think, not what to think, that's first and foremost
[0:02] <mdavey> Quote of the day from the forum: "Admin: Maybe you'd better set a maximum width for the forum. At first I posted Pi with 100 decimals, and there suddenly was a HUGE horizontal scrollbar :p" :D
[0:02] <traeak> heh
[0:03] <ShiftPlusOne> traeak, at my uni a lot of professors go for the "how to think approach all wrong" they don't believe in simply answering questions directly.... but they can't be bothered guiding you to the answer either =/
[0:04] <ShiftPlusOne> *"how to think approach" all wrong
[0:04] <traeak> ShiftPlusOne: yeah, well i don't trust professors :-p
[0:04] <ReggieUK> they've paid rent for people for years but ??60 a week for all your utility bills, food and clothing is no life
[0:05] <Thorn_> ??80
[0:05] <ReggieUK> when did it go up?
[0:05] <Thorn_> It's always been that here
[0:05] <ReggieUK> either way it's not much of a life
[0:05] <ReggieUK> where's here? (roughly)
[0:05] <Thorn_> I dunno, it seems to suit a lot of people round here, they dodge their basic bills and have just enough left to pay for their illegal-drug induced mental coma
[0:05] <Thorn_> Edinburgh, Scotland
[0:06] <ShiftPlusOne> Heh, I currently get youth allowance and a 'scholarship' simply for studying. It's stupid. I've initially refused it but the girlfriend forced me to accept it. =/ I just use it to pay for uni... which is what it's for, I suppose.
[0:08] <ShiftPlusOne> I am all for supporting education, and hell I am benefiting a lot, but they're just throwing too much money out on this stuff. They actually give you more money if you work less hours, so you get more money (per hour) if you quit your job and just live off youth allowance and rent assist.
[0:08] <ReggieUK> I believe it's actually around ??65 pw for over 25s in england/wales
[0:08] <ReggieUK> ??55 for under 25s
[0:08] <ShiftPlusOne> Is that for rent or just studying?
[0:09] <ReggieUK> that's just jobseekers allowance
[0:09] <ShiftPlusOne> or 'looking for work'?
[0:09] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, got it
[0:09] <ReggieUK> I think there is some stunning errors in the way we do things in this country
[0:10] <ShiftPlusOne> Would you rather be like America and send all your tax money overseas?
[0:10] <Thorn_> Quite a few, it can fuel a rant for hours and hours :)
[0:10] <ReggieUK> apparently we spend something like ??4billion on the poorest families in the UK per year
[0:10] * Md (~md@freenode/staff/md) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:10] <ReggieUK> which ends up being something in the order of ??100k per family per year
[0:10] <ReggieUK> how the hell do you fail to get a family out of poverty spending 100k a year on them
[0:10] <ReggieUK> it beggars belief
[0:12] <traeak> heh
[0:12] <ShiftPlusOne> how's homelessness in UK?
[0:12] <ReggieUK> I'm all for the NHS, state education and some public services but what I'm not into at all is throwing money at this stuff without properly thinking about it all
[0:12] <ReggieUK> I think homelessness is relatively low in this country
[0:14] <traeak> NHS pretty much killed my grandfather in germany, denied my grandmother glasses even
[0:14] <traeak> anyways that's neither here nor there
[0:15] <traeak> okay back to rpi :-p
[0:15] <ShiftPlusOne> perhaps that justifies the spending on the poor. I mean if out of every 20 people who get money from the government only 1 person actually needs it, isn't it worth it? When you have something as beurocratic as a government it's more efficient to throw money in the general direction and hope it lands where it should rather than waste time trying to micromanage it.
[0:16] <Thorn_> it's the government, i expect them to be organised enough that 'micromanagement' is not an issue
[0:16] <ReggieUK> indeed, our previous government seemed to like to micromanage everything, so it should've been dealt with
[0:16] <traeak> the best argument i've heard against it is the argument of religious freedom. Christians (at least) are told to provide charity to their neighbors. When the government decides to take that power away from individuals it interferes with that command. But regardless there will always be some "holes" in what individuals can do.
[0:17] <traeak> going theoretical, that is
[0:19] <mdavey> http://www.happyplace.com/4286/brilliantly-sarcastic-responses-to-completely-well-meaning-signs
[0:20] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, sure, but organisation costs money also. They'd need a few more layers of management adding to inefficiency , way more staff and so on. I am just thinking about it from an organisational perspective. Big companies tend to throw money in the general direction of where they want it to go also.
[0:21] <ShiftPlusOne> traeak, how can a government take away the power of charity?
[0:22] <ShiftPlusOne> mdavey, lol, those are brilliant.
[0:23] <traeak> ShiftPlusOne: taking the resources for itself
[0:23] <mdavey> I like the "graffiti is a fun crime" one. And the "stop defacing stop signs" one.
[0:24] <traeak> ShiftPlusOne: ie: if half your income goes to government that's a ton less you can decide to do with it yourself
[0:24] * Frictor (~Aethyran@in-67-236-179-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] <ShiftPlusOne> traeak, charity doesn't have to be financial or even material. I think money is the 'easiest' form of charity 'cause you don't really have to do anything. But yeah, I get what you mean.
[0:26] <mdavey> "push button / receive bacon" lol
[0:26] <traeak> i liked the wheel chair ramp as well
[0:27] <mdavey> just got there!
[0:30] * Frictor hunts the forums for proposed hardware specs, especially IO breakouts.
[0:31] <ShiftPlusOne> Frictor, http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard
[0:31] <mdavey> http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard#General_Purpose_Input.2FOutput_.28GPIO.29.2C_I2C.2C_I2S.2C_SPI
[0:31] <ShiftPlusOne> probably the best info you can get
[0:31] <mdavey> too slow
[0:32] <ShiftPlusOne> well you've got the bookmark in there as well.
[0:32] <ShiftPlusOne> You should probably put that link in the topic
[0:33] * ReimuHakurei_ (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] <Frictor> ... dangit, now I'm drooling.
[0:35] <Frictor> Ugh, if only I could write C or C++ code worth anything.
[0:35] <ShiftPlusOne> Who are the ops on this channel?
[0:35] <Frictor> This would be great for a homebrew tablet.
[0:36] <ShiftPlusOne> Frictor, practise makes good enough.
[0:36] <Frictor> Gimme VHDL or hardware schematics, and I can make it work out of the box. Gimme source code and I'm screwed.
[0:36] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah, there's a lot of talk on the forums about tabletizing it
[0:36] <mdavey> not me currently, apparently. Presumably RaspberryPiBot is.
[0:37] <Thorn_> I don't think ukscone shifted ownership properly
[0:37] <ShiftPlusOne> That's normal though... I don't know a single person who'd good at both hardware and software. I know some excellent engineers who can write great code or are great at designing hardware, but never both for some reason.
[0:38] <Frictor> I know for me, I can do VHDL and hardware because I can visualize the signals and everything all at once.
[0:38] <ReggieUK> I neat, I didn't realise rpi was on elinux
[0:38] <ReggieUK> the leapfrog stuff we mess with is on there too
[0:38] <Frictor> But try to get me to figure out the C or C++ equivalent, and I can't tell my head from a hole in the ground.
[0:38] <ShiftPlusOne> that's all mdavey's effort =)
[0:38] <ReggieUK> http://elinux.org/LeapFrog_Pollux_Platform
[0:39] <ReggieUK> nice work mdavey :)
[0:39] <mdavey> I just copied the excellent Beagleboard pages and then scraped stuff from the R.Pi forum.
[0:40] <ReggieUK> I got lucky with the didj/explorer, they guys on #didj have hardware and software covered to a greater or lesser degree
[0:40] <ShiftPlusOne> Frictor, you need to think in a more abstract way rather than trying to figure out exactly what's going on physically... I guess that's why it's an either-or kind of thing... they're different ways of thinking.
[0:40] <ReggieUK> they aren't afraid to break a unit either then strip it of components and do board scans :D
[0:41] <Frictor> figures.
[0:41] <- *mdavey* hi
[0:41] <- *mdavey* help
[0:42] <traeak> you can get didj's really cheap on sale
[0:42] <ReggieUK> they're neat little units for the money
[0:42] <ReggieUK> just need more linux savvy people working on it
[0:42] <traeak> what's involved in running 'brew on them? any special hardware or cards ?
[0:42] <ReggieUK> between us we've got quite a lot figured out on it
[0:42] <ReggieUK> nope nothing special needed
[0:43] <ReggieUK> got framebuffer driver
[0:43] <ReggieUK> open gl es lite 1.something or other
[0:43] <ReggieUK> runs sdl
[0:44] <- *mdavey* time
[0:44] <ReggieUK> nirvous got a full speed gba emulator running on it (gpsp)
[0:44] <ReggieUK> I got doom running on it
[0:44] <ReggieUK> using SDL but not open gl
[0:44] <ReggieUK> it could do with a gui
[0:45] <traeak> ahh, requires traditional batteries
[0:45] <ReggieUK> it has psu socket too
[0:45] <traeak> rechargeable packs weren't too cheap
[0:45] <traeak> hmm
[0:46] <ReggieUK> there are 3 units, the didj, explorer and the new lpad
[0:46] <ReggieUK> they all use the same bespoke arm9 chip
[0:46] <ReggieUK> lf1000
[0:46] <ReggieUK> all run at 393Mhz
[0:46] <ReggieUK> they just released the gpl code for the new unit
[0:47] <traeak> didj doesn't have triggers
[0:47] <ReggieUK> I got it running entirely off sd on the explorer and have now managed to work out a method to get the latest firmware to run on a didj from nand too
[0:48] <ReggieUK> what do you mean by triggers?
[0:48] <ReggieUK> it's got left/right shoulder buttons but nothing analog as far as buttons are concerned (except the volume slider on the didj)
[0:48] <traeak> didj as a homebrew gaming device :-p
[0:48] <traeak> or i just dont' seee those ?
[0:48] <ReggieUK> it works well with gpsp
[0:49] <ReggieUK> and doom is pretty tidy too
[0:50] <ReggieUK> also has a dpad and a/b buttons, home, pause and hint button
[0:52] <ReggieUK> although at the moment gpsp is having issues since we got the new kernel/rootfs
[0:53] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:05] * Frictor grins, as he sees somebody suggesting using the Raspberry Pi as a multi-touch coffee table processor.
[1:06] <ShiftPlusOne> That would be cool
[1:06] <Frictor> He's gonna have one heck of a price tag on the display alone.
[1:06] <ShiftPlusOne> Until microsoft sues.
[1:06] <ReggieUK> I'm just wondering what people expect to squeeze out of one of these
[1:07] <Frictor> I can see a 20" HD display tablet, but that's the most I can see, and even then, you'd be pushing it's limits.
[1:07] <ReggieUK> I read that it has a broadcom gpu on the pi?
[1:07] <ShiftPlusOne> Anyway... it's 9am.... bed time. 'night
[1:07] <ReggieUK> g'night ShiftPlusOne :)
[1:07] <Frictor> 'night ShiftPlusOne
[1:08] <ReggieUK> but the ram is shared with the gpu
[1:08] <ReggieUK> which is how the didj/explorer/lpad/df3120 photoframe work
[1:08] <Frictor> hence my size limit, after which you're gonna have lower and lower resolution.
[1:08] <Thorn_> 1920x1080 is fine for a coffee table ;p
[1:08] <Frictor> well, ability to drive it. I would think.
[1:08] <Frictor> Ah.
[1:09] <Frictor> still, how are you going to power that beast?
[1:09] <ReggieUK> thing is it doesn't have to be at 1920x1080 off the hdmi does it?
[1:09] <Thorn_> the gpu supports scaling down
[1:09] <Thorn_> afaik
[1:09] <ReggieUK> so you could always run it at 720 or even 480p
[1:09] <Thorn_> So if you really want, you can output at 640x480 (not sure if the benefits owuld be worth it though)
[1:10] <traeak> 1920x1080 requires a lot of ram to manage
[1:10] <Thorn_> i assume the active frame isn't raw and handled internal to the gpu in cache
[1:10] <Frictor> Assume you source the display and touchscreen as a touchscreen monitor, you're still looking at a lot of cost for a conversation starter.
[1:11] <Frictor> Though, I will admit, it'd be one heck of a conversation starter, and you could probably run a small DnD campaign on it.
[1:11] <traeak> just use a standard computer for that stuff
[1:11] <Thorn_> no need when an rpi can do it :P
[1:12] <Frictor> Heh. I've been trying to figure out enough C++ for the past 2 months, to write up a small product for a tablet to share a Heroclix map across multiple tablets.
[1:12] <Thorn_> hoping to hook up decently sized touchscreen to one (around 15") as a control panel for the house so i can control the lights etc from it via relays :D
[1:12] <Frictor> cool.
[1:13] <Frictor> Sadly, the further I delve into the language, the more I feel like I need to outsource the software on that idea.
[1:14] <Frictor> The RasPi would be a sweet core for it though.
[1:14] <Frictor> Better than the Chumbies I've been playing with, at least.
[1:14] * Md (~md@freenode/staff/md) Quit (Quit: I ??? Unicode)
[1:17] <Frictor> As far as relay controls, what interface? X10, ethernet, Wi-Fi, ZigBee?
[1:18] <Thorn_> was thinking something like wifi/bluetooth
[1:18] <Frictor> cool.
[1:19] <Thorn_> it could be expanded on to totally nerd out though
[1:19] <Thorn_> maybe have another raspberrypi running voice recognition software
[1:19] <Thorn_> Add some startrek wall panels for artistic liberty, and it lets you be the biggest geek in 1000 miles :D
[1:19] <Thorn_> but all that stuff is more of a dream
[1:20] <traeak> the immediate reality is power supply + usb gamepad == homebrew console
[1:20] <Thorn_> i wonder how well mame will run
[1:20] <ukscone> depends what you use to chase it
[1:21] <Thorn_> if there's an arm version of the mame emulator that is
[1:21] <ukscone> a pack of slavering hounds and it'll probably reach 60mph
[1:21] <Frictor> Pop on bluetooth with the right stack, and just use a Wiimote or PS Move.
[1:21] <traeak> pretty much
[1:21] <traeak> controller cost then oustrips the console cost
[1:22] <Frictor> Depends on if you already have and use them.
[1:22] <ReggieUK> xmame I think is the latest that should work on arm
[1:22] <ukscone> Thorn_: most of the mame cores have two versions a c and and x86 asm ver iirc so it should run just be slower compared to an x86 port until someone does arm assembly ports of the cores
[1:22] <Frictor> And the Nyko wiimotes should be about the same price as the Model B
[1:22] <ReggieUK> you should be able to get a clonemote off ebay for about ??12
[1:23] <traeak> dealextreme is decent there
[1:23] <Frictor> And used but serviceable Wiimotes for about 1/2 to 3/4 original price.
[1:24] <ReggieUK> there are some cheap little serial bluetooth modules about too, not sure if they're any use for wiimote but certainly useful for console access (I used on on the didj/explorer for a while)
[1:24] <Frictor> Well, I'll bookmark the project and come back to it if I ever get enough of my project going to risk it.
[1:25] <Frictor> Otherwise, I may just stick in the realm of wires, chips, and 8-bit MCUs
[1:26] * Frictor (~Aethyran@in-67-236-179-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has left #raspberrypi
[1:33] <Thorn_> I wonder what quake3 client they used for this demo video, considering stock quake3/ioquake3 is not compatible with GL ES
[1:34] <traeak> thwe demo is up?
[1:35] <Thorn_> no
[1:35] <traeak> dealextreme has BT dongles sub $5
[1:45] <ReggieUK> sdlquake3?
[1:47] <Thorn_> ioquake uses SDL too, SDL doesn't handle the 3d rendering, it just does the initial initialization of the opengl context
[1:47] <ReggieUK> ahh
[1:52] <Thorn_> 'initial initialization'
[1:52] <Thorn_> i should start documenting these
[2:00] <ReggieUK> I was thinking back to when I had a bbc micro and something I haven't seen for a while
[2:00] <ReggieUK> we used to have a computer club
[2:01] <ReggieUK> that my dad and I would go to every week
[2:03] <ReggieUK> although not entirely sure how you'd use that in a modern era to encourage kids to learn programming
[2:03] <Thorn_> programming lan parties, heh
[2:13] <ReggieUK> :)
[2:27] * Ross_ (~ross@188-221-247-176.zone12.bethere.co.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[2:49] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5672.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:55] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5612.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:14] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[4:30] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:39] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[7:15] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm.. quiet in here =/
[7:16] <DaQatz> It's 1am here
[7:16] <ShiftPlusOne> UK?
[7:16] <DaQatz> Maine USA
[7:16] <ShiftPlusOne> Ah ok... go to sleep! >=/
[7:17] <DaQatz> Sleep?
[7:17] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah, I don't get it either.
[9:48] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5612.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[10:19] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:44] * Ross_ (~ross@188-221-247-176.zone12.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:49] * zz_RobinJ is now known as RobinJ
[11:07] * RobinJ is now known as zz_RobinJ
[11:07] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:11] <mdavey> morning all
[11:12] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning, good Sir.
[11:13] <mdavey> is datagutt an op?
[11:13] <datagutt> nope
[11:13] <datagutt> ukscone is the only one
[11:13] <datagutt> but i host the logs...
[11:13] <mdavey> okay
[11:15] <mdavey> in the absense of R.Pi people hanging out in here, I think it might be worth making RaspberryPiBot an op. And some responsible people. RaspberryPiBot could be made to op them on sight, to make management easy.
[11:18] <mdavey> there used to be an awesome little bot on #eire about 10 years ago. I forget its name. It used to serve beer, thou!
[11:24] <ShiftPlusOne> As long as there are no topic nazi ops. =)
[11:29] * mdavey wonders if ShiftPlusOne is a Responsible Person
[11:29] <ShiftPlusOne> I am, but I don't do modding or opping anymore.
[11:31] * mdavey wonders if mdavey is a Responsible Person
[11:31] * mdavey doubts mdavey is a Responsible Person
[11:31] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[11:32] <ShiftPlusOne> as long as you don't let ego get in the way, you're a Responsible Person?
[11:34] <ShiftPlusOne> Come to think of it, I've never actually banned anyone. =(
[11:39] <ShiftPlusOne> anyone experienced with scratchbox here?
[11:40] * Ross_ (~ross@188-221-247-176.zone12.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:42] <datagutt> ah right mdavey
[11:42] <datagutt> well
[11:42] <datagutt> my bot cant manage channels yet
[11:43] <datagutt> but i can code that in
[11:44] <mdavey> and bartender mode?
[11:45] <datagutt> hm
[11:45] <datagutt> Maybe
[11:45] <mdavey> :D
[11:46] <datagutt> I reallly should code logging into my own bot
[11:46] <datagutt> not using some jibble java shit
[12:13] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[13:25] <ReggieUK> good afternoon everyone
[13:26] <ShiftPlusOne> hey
[13:47] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK would you happen to know about compiling a Versatile, ARMv6 kernel? Not sure if I've asked you already.
[13:52] * Ross_ (~ross@188-221-247-176.zone12.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:58] <ShiftPlusOne> ah yeah, I've already asked here, my mistake.
[14:11] <ReggieUK> It's odd really ShiftPlusOne, I've done a fiar bit of work on the didj/explorer, written many install scripts for software/libs and played with the configs but I'm still not sure about a lot of the minutae about how it all ticks
[14:12] <ReggieUK> I seem to sledgehammer my way through stuff rather than 'know' certain things
[14:12] <ReggieUK> our source was all given to us with pre built defconfigs
[14:12] <ReggieUK> so we really got a head start
[14:13] <ReggieUK> it was just a question of getting a toolchain and compiling
[14:15] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok, thanks
[14:15] <ReggieUK> you're obviously going to need a toolchain (stop me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs!)
[14:16] <ReggieUK> what's the arm11 chip based on? I heard it was a pxaXXX, perhaps there is already a defconfig for it?
[14:17] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah, I've got several toolchains, that's not a problem
[14:17] <ReggieUK> so which part is the problem in compiling the kernel?
[14:19] <ShiftPlusOne> there's no ARMv6/ARM11option for versatilepb. I'll go through /proc/config.gz of Aboriginal linux to see what they've done in a second
[14:20] <ReggieUK> sorry, here is my lack of knowledge showing, what is significant about 'versatile'?
[14:20] <ReggieUK> cos I see versatile PB platform option in the didj kernel sources
[14:21] <ShiftPlusOne> it's supported well by qemu and fairly close to raspi
[14:22] <ShiftPlusOne> anyway, don't give it too much thought, I've still got a few things to try before I am out of ideas
[14:24] <ReggieUK> http://marc.info/?l=linux-embedded&m=123916186130800&w=3
[14:24] <ReggieUK> and an old patch
[14:24] <ReggieUK> http://landley.net/hg/aboriginal/file/8a88cae14011/sources/patches/linux-2.6.29-armv6-armv7-for-versatilepb.patch
[14:25] <ReggieUK> which kernel do you want it for, maybe there is a more current patch
[14:27] <ShiftPlusOne> Ah, that patch is actually from aboriginal... awesome. Thanks =)
[14:27] <ShiftPlusOne> no wonder their .config didn't work for me
[14:27] <ReggieUK> he
[14:28] <ReggieUK> .configs and build systems are a pita
[14:28] <ReggieUK> obviously useful but when your build system doesn't come with instructions it's freaky when options just disappear :D
[14:28] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[14:29] <ShiftPlusOne> well at least I've figured out all the right config options for my PC... having to re-learn a lot of stuff for embedded though. =/
[14:29] <ReggieUK> or the rootfs build dir changes because of switches that no one knows
[14:30] <ShiftPlusOne> what do you use to build rootfs, by the way?
[14:30] <ReggieUK> I think I've got a relatively fair understanding of the leapfrog build system
[14:30] <ReggieUK> ahh, well, they provide us with a bunch of scripts
[14:30] <ReggieUK> although some of the scripts are missing so we've had to deconstruct old ones and make our own for some stuff
[14:31] <ShiftPlusOne> well that the advantage of starting with a device that you know... exists.
[14:31] <ShiftPlusOne> *that's
[14:32] <ReggieUK> we have a folder called packages and an old script called make_rootfs.sh
[14:32] <ShiftPlusOne> do you have any sort of package management once the system is built?
[14:32] <ReggieUK> make_rootfs.sh calls the install.sh script to build our kernel. then it makes all of the packages
[14:33] <ReggieUK> it's sort of package management but it really builds the whole kernel+rootfs+ packages
[14:33] <ReggieUK> I really should split off a script so that we can just rebuild the packages
[14:33] <ShiftPlusOne> I mean to install packages from the actual device
[14:34] <ReggieUK> individual packages are easy to build/install, as each package has it's own folder and an install.sh script which does all the configure stuff
[14:34] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[14:34] <ReggieUK> oh no, we don't build anything on the device itself
[14:35] <ReggieUK> if you want to install your own package your pretty much on your own, get ./configure options right and make essentially
[14:35] <ShiftPlusOne> I meant binary packages... I guess you can just tarball them.
[14:35] <ReggieUK> ahh, I see, ok, leapfrog provided a set of tools to mess with packages
[14:36] <ReggieUK> but in all honesty, tar them
[14:36] <ReggieUK> but atm I mainly just build stuff and use an NFS share to get files across
[14:37] <ReggieUK> and have been known to just run them from the share
[14:38] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, I am just looking at various options out there... seems like what I expect doesn't exist... gentoo's crossdev comes close though
[14:39] <ShiftPlusOne> (poorly documented though)
[14:40] <ReggieUK> openembedded and bitbake?
[14:41] <ReggieUK> this is something that we have been given by leapfrog but no instruction on how to use it
[14:41] <ReggieUK> I got as far as writing a tutorial on how to install them but no one brighter than me came along to fill in the bits on how to use it :D
[14:41] <ReggieUK> or even to cofirm if my tutorial was correct or bs
[14:42] <ReggieUK> but doesn't qemu give you access to debian/emdebian?
[14:43] <ReggieUK> I know jkent from #didj got debian running on our didj's
[14:44] <ReggieUK> which from memory had pretty good package control
[14:44] <ShiftPlusOne> Haven't tried openembedded yet... think I should get a damn working kernel first. Haven't heard of bitbake. And yeah, I've got debian working, that's not a problem... except that it's debian.
[14:46] <ReggieUK> I found that the build systems seemed to be a major pita
[14:47] <ReggieUK> there seems an awful lot of fluff compared to making a build script of your own for a package
[14:49] <ShiftPlusOne> I guess that's to be expected though
[14:49] <ReggieUK> http://pastebin.com/8n6MHV7d
[14:49] <ReggieUK> that's a script I've just knocked up for directFB
[14:51] <ReggieUK> it's not 100% yet (SRC_URL is wrong and it's putting the files in the $ROOTFS_PATH folder instead of $EROOTFS_PATH which the helper scripts should be handling depending on switches)
[14:51] <ReggieUK> but that file will build and install fbdev for me right now
[14:52] <ShiftPlusOne> seems like some error checking would be good too.
[14:52] <ShiftPlusOne> no point continuing with the script if configure or make fail
[14:52] <ReggieUK> and to make the build system build it when we do a make_rootfs.sh we just add the PKG_NAME to a couple of list files
[14:53] <ReggieUK> error checking is handled for us
[14:53] <ReggieUK> if you run install.sh and something borks you will know
[14:53] <ReggieUK> it stops
[14:53] <ReggieUK> if you do it as part of make_rootfs.sh it will do the same
[14:53] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[14:53] <ReggieUK> the system assumes a few things
[14:54] <ReggieUK> like some env vars for paths, target machine, CC/CXX
[14:54] <ReggieUK> and it also assumes that your configure part of the script is correct and that you've put the packages in the right order in the list files :)
[14:55] <ShiftPlusOne> and dependencies?
[14:56] <ReggieUK> it's down to you as well
[14:57] <ShiftPlusOne> That's the part I am not looking forward to
[14:58] <ReggieUK> :)
[14:58] <ReggieUK> if I knew how to use another system I'd give it a go
[14:58] <ReggieUK> but atm this is what we have and what I know
[14:58] <ReggieUK> it has been a slog to get some stuff to compile
[14:58] <ReggieUK> getting all the SDL libs to compile was a headache
[15:00] <ReggieUK> I'm currently seeing if I can get a port of an astronomy app. working
[15:00] <ReggieUK> it needs wxwidgets
[15:00] <ShiftPlusOne> is this openembedded or some custom leapfrog thing?
[15:00] <ReggieUK> which? the astronomy app?
[15:00] <ReggieUK> or wxwidgets?
[15:00] <ShiftPlusOne> no, the build syste
[15:00] <ShiftPlusOne> *system
[15:00] <ReggieUK> this is leapfrogs build system
[15:00] <ShiftPlusOne> that you use install.sh for
[15:01] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, got it
[15:01] <ShiftPlusOne> what's the problem with wxwidgets? I've only had to compile it for windows, but it wasn't too much of a pain.
[15:01] <ReggieUK> we have a framebuffer driver and that's it
[15:02] <ShiftPlusOne> ah
[15:02] <ReggieUK> so I had to get directFB running it appears to get wxwidgets working
[15:02] <ReggieUK> I *think* :D
[15:02] <ReggieUK> ahahaha
[15:10] <ReggieUK> not even sure right now how to use directFB
[15:10] <ReggieUK> but this is the usual path I have to follow
[15:17] <ShiftPlusOne> Do you work for leapfrog or is this just for the hell of it?
[15:17] <ReggieUK> looks like I have a few things missing in my configure but it's relatively close and anything missing I already have built, so I just need to point it in the right direction I think
[15:17] <ReggieUK> this is sort of just for the hell of it
[15:17] <ReggieUK> I had a project in mind
[15:17] <ReggieUK> but as I mentioned, an arduino wouldn't quite cut it for a specific part of the project
[15:18] <ReggieUK> basically, I want to control the focusers on my telescopes
[15:18] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, awesome.
[15:18] <ReggieUK> pretty much adding an autofocus option to them
[15:18] <ShiftPlusOne> ah... hence the astronomy app... it all makes sense now, lol.
[15:18] <ReggieUK> that side of things is pretty much done, just need to get my hardware designed and built or give in and spend money on a stepper driver board
[15:19] <ReggieUK> what I also wanted to do was have a unit with say, a 3.5" screen on it that would do 'auto guiding'
[15:19] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:19] <ShiftPlusOne> what does that mean?
[15:20] <ReggieUK> autoguiding is a way to make the telescope mount motors keep exactly on your target
[15:20] <ShiftPlusOne> would that be for something like long exposure shots?
[15:21] <ReggieUK> you in general use a 2nd telescope and a guide camera (modified webcam or specialised guide camera), you point your main scope at it's target and the guide scope should pick up a star on the guide camera
[15:21] <ReggieUK> you then select the star in the guide camera, the software calibrates itself with the mount/target and then keeps that star in exactly the same position on screen
[15:21] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, I know nothing about astronomy... I just like the purdy pictures, lol.
[15:22] <ReggieUK> if the star moves more than 0.25 pixels then the guider software 'nudges' the motors to put the star back in position
[15:23] <ReggieUK> it allows you to then take long exposure images with a DSLR or dedicated astronomy CCD camera
[15:23] <ShiftPlusOne> and what would you need to do that for?
[15:23] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[15:23] <ShiftPlusOne> so I was right!
[15:23] <ReggieUK> yeah, purdy pictures
[15:23] <ReggieUK> I like the shiny shiny
[15:23] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh, i meant about the long exposure shots
[15:24] <ReggieUK> oh sorry, yes, dead right on the long exposure
[15:24] <ReggieUK> so you can do stuff like this:
[15:24] <ReggieUK> http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg85/SkyAndStuff/na2.jpg
[15:25] <ReggieUK> http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg85/SkyAndStuff/M101CroppedDss.jpg
[15:25] <ShiftPlusOne> love the M101 shot
[15:26] <ShiftPlusOne> How good does the telescope need to be to get a shot like that?
[15:26] <ukscone> just woke up -- morning all
[15:26] <ReggieUK> thanks, it's ok but I really am low end amateur, you should see some of the good stuff people get, it really is amazing
[15:26] <ReggieUK> hi ukscone
[15:26] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning ukscone
[15:26] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: i need coffee first but still need scratchbox info?
[15:26] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: i made mdavey an op but he didn't want it :)
[15:27] <ukscone> also as soon as r-pi people appear they can have the channel
[15:27] <datagutt> hey ukscone
[15:27] <ReggieUK> http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg85/SkyAndStuff/PB_M31.jpg
[15:27] <ukscone> i just wanted to stop talking about it and just do it so nobody grabbed it before they could
[15:27] <ukscone> morning datagutt
[15:28] <ReggieUK> good with telescopes is a hard question to answer
[15:28] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, I think I'll get back to scratch box when I get a kernel with the right cpu and system options.
[15:28] <ReggieUK> I'd say spending ??200+ on a telescope would be a good start
[15:28] <ReggieUK> but it depends entirely what you want to do
[15:28] <ReggieUK> you could get away with a ??50 set of binoculars
[15:29] <ReggieUK> I'm surprised the r-pi guys didn't seem keen on an irc channel
[15:29] <ReggieUK> forums are nice and all but nothing beats IRC for info swapping
[15:29] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, I love nebulae and galaxies, but I assumed that's not something you can see with a cheapish telescope.
[15:30] <ReggieUK> ahh, your making a classic mistake thinking that you can actually see much in the way of nebula and galaxies with a telescope :)
[15:31] <ReggieUK> you will see stuff on bigger scopes but for the most part all you will see is what they call 'faint fuzzies'
[15:32] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, yeah, that's what I figured. So other than in long exposure shots and through observatories you can't really see things like that?
[15:32] <ReggieUK> which means you might see the night sky being black and the galaxy as being a not quite so black patch in the sky
[15:32] <ReggieUK> yup, correct, long exposure is the way forward for grabbing data and seeing real space stuff
[15:33] <ukscone> anyone not too busy?
[15:33] <ReggieUK> tbh it's far more interesting doing long exposure for that reason alone
[15:33] <ReggieUK> what for ukscone?
[15:33] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, I am not too busy, what's up?
[15:33] <ukscone> i need someone to go to the store for me and get me a coffee and doughnut as i don't feel like walking the 100 feet
[15:33] <ShiftPlusOne> online shopping?
[15:34] <ukscone> i wish but dunkin donuts doesn't deliver
[15:34] * ReggieUK wanders 4ft to the kitchen and puts the kettle on
[15:34] <ukscone> they missed a trick there
[15:34] <ShiftPlusOne> lol, ok
[15:34] <ukscone> i'd make it myself but i'm out of half and half
[15:35] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, another question.... why do the Hubble photos, for example, have a 'sparkle' on the stars? Is that edited in, an effect of long exposure or what?
[15:35] <ShiftPlusOne> For example in the Eagle nebula shot
[15:35] <ReggieUK> I believe on the hubble it's because of the design of the scope
[15:35] <ReggieUK> they're called diffraction spikes
[15:36] <ReggieUK> and they can occur if you have a 'vane' across the front of the telescope, like on a newtonian reflector telescope
[15:36] <ReggieUK> some people actually put those in as part of post processing
[15:37] <ReggieUK> I hate it personally :)
[15:37] <ShiftPlusOne> Ah ok, my first thought was that they were edited it to make it look more awesome, but then I thought that was silly and wondered why anyone would do that.
[15:37] <ReggieUK> I don't mind it on scopes that can't avoid it but you shouldn't ever see those on an image from a refractor
[15:38] <ReggieUK> or sct scopes and mak-cass scopes too
[15:39] <ReggieUK> I think for the amount of work that amateurs do to get images, putting in false diffraction spikes just detracts from the fantastic work they already do
[15:39] <ShiftPlusOne> as far as simple telescopes go, they're mostly for learning the basics of astronomy then?
[15:39] <ReggieUK> define simple :)
[15:40] <ShiftPlusOne> the type of telescope I'd be willing to spend money on out of vague interest but without enough fascination to spend an awful lot on.
[15:40] <ukscone> oooooo just thought of something. all the things i have already ported and built should in theory run on the r-pi -- well the ncurses based things that don't use the registers or gpio
[15:40] <ukscone> s anyway
[15:40] <ReggieUK> the smaller scopes that end up in best buy or w/e really are kids scopes, to get them to look at the moon and planets and stir interest (the moon is simply awesome to look at for cheap)
[15:40] <ukscone> so my port of nightsky might run without having to rebuild it
[15:41] <ReggieUK> nightsky?
[15:41] <ReggieUK> game or astronomy stuff?
[15:42] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, I'd have a look around and see if I could find a local astronomy club
[15:42] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh, I don't have that much interest
[15:43] <ReggieUK> just to go along and get some real advice that's suited to your area and actually get to look through some glass before spending any money
[15:44] <ShiftPlusOne> Nuh, I am not in the market for a telescope just yet. Just asking out of curiosity. =)
[15:45] <ReggieUK> the r-pi looks like it will be a neat astronomy tool
[15:46] <ReggieUK> it seems there's been a bit of work done on porting a guiding app. to linux, which puts the r-pi in a commanding position (for me at least)
[15:47] <ReggieUK> I want to offset the load on my laptop for controlling the mount
[15:49] <Thorn_> 9 posts per page on the forum is a bit limited, what is this the days of 56k?
[15:50] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, did I mention I don't like Mingle?
[15:51] <Thorn_> its not bad
[15:51] <Thorn_> it kind of feels like SMF's little brother with aspergers
[15:51] <Thorn_> always likes to be awkward
[15:52] <ShiftPlusOne> sounds about right
[15:53] <ukscone> sorry was at the store (coffee run) http://nightsky.sourceforge.net/
[15:54] <ukscone> they seem to have removed the "mark all read" from it too -- really annoying
[15:54] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=43&markallread=true
[15:54] <ReggieUK> will the r-pi be supporting kde?
[15:54] <ShiftPlusOne> lol... kde is far from lightweight
[15:55] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: yeah but i liked to just click a thingy and not have to think
[15:55] <ShiftPlusOne> I love it on my desktop, but wouldn't try to run it on something like r-pi.
[15:55] <Thorn_> could probably get kde3 in
[15:55] <Thorn_> kde4 on the other hand
[15:55] <Thorn_> superkaramba and plasma use about 9gb of memory each
[15:55] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, are you using firefox?
[15:55] <ukscone> chrome
[15:55] <ReggieUK> ukscone, sure but I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to what depends on what and performance hit, so I chose kstars because it has indi support
[15:56] <ReggieUK> but if you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears
[15:56] <ReggieUK> and dude, thank you for the nightsky link, I had no idea it existed
[15:56] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, add that link to your bookmarks toolbar... that makes it pretty quick and easy.
[15:56] <ReggieUK> I think I might be getting that to run on the didj/explorer :)
[15:56] <ukscone> it's a nice app i have no use for it but i was on a porting kick a few months ago
[15:57] <ukscone> it runs well on a 32meg ram pxa270 with 320x240 screen
[15:57] <ukscone> so should be great on the r-pi
[15:57] <Thorn_> so i finally googled pxa270
[15:57] <ReggieUK> the didj/explorer units have 32/64MB respectively
[15:57] <Thorn_> ??1800 oO
[15:57] <ReggieUK> 320x240
[15:59] <ReggieUK> nightsky will do for now, it's a useful little tool
[15:59] <ukscone> Thorn_: it's the SoC in alot of treo phones and a few other devices. used to be intel but marvell bought the rights -- really nice SoC
[15:59] <ukscone> but sooooooo old now :)
[15:59] <ReggieUK> but indi support is what I'm ultimately looking for
[16:00] <ReggieUK> as that gives me control of the mount
[16:00] <ReggieUK> I could essentially run my whole rig off 2 model Bs and a 12V battery
[16:01] <ReggieUK> that's temperature/humidity sensors, focuser motors, mount motors, telescope heaters and cameras
[16:06] <ukscone> w00t!!!!! my vm's work again :) recovered all my files off the deformated external drive and looks like i didn't lose anything
[16:06] <ReggieUK> ouch and well done
[16:06] <ukscone> and i now have another 2TB of disk spce
[16:07] <ukscone> i hit the change tub (where we put all the change at night and there was just enough for a hitachi 2TB external drive on sale at j&r in it :)
[16:08] <ukscone> last time i hit the change tub it had 300 bucks in it only 92 this time -- need to start adding to it again
[16:08] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, how did you recover the files? TestDisk or something else?
[16:08] <ukscone> recover my files
[16:09] <ShiftPlusOne> Abbot and Costello come to mind.
[16:09] <ukscone> its a nice prog
[16:09] <ukscone> saves the list of found files between runs of the prog
[16:09] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah before I was about to say "Yes, how did you recover your files?" I realised that might be the name, so I googled it first, lol.
[16:09] <ukscone> so i could reboot and stuff
[16:10] <ukscone> whose on first
[16:10] <ShiftPlusOne> exactly
[16:10] <ukscone> yup
[16:10] <ukscone> got to go to the post office in a bit -- post a letter and pick up a parcel
[16:10] <ReggieUK> that looks like a relative simple port to get nightsky running on the didj/explorer
[16:11] <ukscone> my girltech im-me has been sitting there for 3 days
[16:11] <ukscone> ReggieUK: the major prob i had was the sdl lib as i hadn't built sdl yet at the time and was stuck using an ncient uclibc
[16:11] <ShiftPlusOne> ... well that's very.... pink looking.
[16:12] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: yes it is
[16:12] <ukscone> but cool to hack on
[16:12] <ukscone> the new hck for it looks really nice but i won't actully do it
[16:12] <ReggieUK> I have already made my own scripts to install SDL, image, mixer, ttf, net, gfx for didj/explorer
[16:13] <ReggieUK> so it looks like I've just got to mess with the key handling routine and it should be job done :)
[16:13] <ukscone> http://hackaday.com/2011/08/18/project-25-digital-radios-law-enforcemnet-grade-vulnerable-to-the-im-me/
[16:14] <ukscone> ReggieUK: sounds like its a couple of hours work then :)
[16:14] <ReggieUK> lol, I don't even have to disable the cursor
[16:14] <ReggieUK> erm, looks more like 5 minutes
[16:14] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, lol, that looks awesome.
[16:14] <ReggieUK> specifically:
[16:14] <ukscone> i also had to use nomouse and rotate as the device i used has a 90 degree cw rotated lcd
[16:14] <ReggieUK> case SDLK_ESCAPE: should_run = false; break;
[16:14] <ReggieUK> case SDLK_SPACE: view.fine_panning ^= true; update_bounds(&view); break;
[16:14] <ReggieUK> case 'c': view.show_constellations ^= true; break;
[16:14] <ReggieUK> case SDLK_TAB: view.show_cursor ^= true; break;
[16:14] <ReggieUK> case SDLK_F1: should_show_keys ^= true; break;
[16:14] <ReggieUK> case SDLK_F11: zoom_view_in( &view); break;
[16:14] <ReggieUK> case SDLK_F12: zoom_view_out( &view); break;
[16:15] <ukscone> nd it also had no function keys so i had to redefine that stuff too
[16:15] <ReggieUK> it just so happens I have 7 keys + dpad
[16:16] <ReggieUK> and it would be relatively simple to add a shift key so I can actually have enough keys to quit the app
[16:16] <ReggieUK> or just ditch the F1 function
[16:16] <ukscone> ReggieUK: ok so we shoudl expect the binary to be posted somewhere by er noon?
[16:16] <ReggieUK> maybe :D
[16:17] <ReggieUK> depends if the make stuff plays nice
[16:18] <ukscone> ok by 12:05 then
[16:18] <ReggieUK> + breakfast
[16:18] <ukscone> :)
[16:19] <ReggieUK> and as it's 3.15pm that should give me enough time to not have to eat crow for dinner tomorrow :D
[16:19] <ukscone> hehehehehhehehe
[16:20] <ReggieUK> CFLAGS/LIBS might need adjusting so that they point to my arm stuff instead of the system installed SDL stuff
[16:23] <ReggieUK> yup, they will
[16:23] <ukscone> ReggieUK: that's one of the reasons that fort single apps i use scratchbox1/2 :)
[16:24] <ukscone> for full rootfs then it's aboriginal or buildroot (and once in a bluemoon openembedded) but for single stuff it's sb all the way
[16:25] <ReggieUK> this is all I've learned, I had zero experience with coding/compiling in linux, I initially relied on a preinstalled toolchain in a VM
[16:26] <ReggieUK> I still use the VM but now use a ridgerun based toolchain, that was again supplied for us and is the closest we've got to what leapfrog actually use
[16:26] <ukscone> i have vm's for all my embedded devices. one for pxa270, one for blackfin, one for z80....... makes life alot easier but i have to remember to be in the right vm
[16:27] <ReggieUK> We do have other toolchains that we can use but tbh call it lazy or just a lack of will to learn yet more stuff, I've stuck with what we've got so far
[16:27] <ukscone> once we have a rootfs for the r-pi i'll put together a development vm for it and post it on my site
[16:27] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, a question about Aboriginal. Is there a way to customise the kernel for more general use?
[16:27] <ReggieUK> ukscone, that would be awesome
[16:27] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: yes but you have to dig into the scripts
[16:28] <ShiftPlusOne> I am thinking of using Aboriginal's patches in buildroot and doing it that way.
[16:28] <ukscone> if you use the scripts as written they will buold as expected but you vcan edit them
[16:28] <ReggieUK> thing is, I don't mind digging into scripts either but everything I touch seems to be a learning curve for me
[16:28] <ukscone> also there is a command line option to bring up the kernel make config iirc
[16:28] <ReggieUK> so I don't necessarily know what I'm doing but seem to get where I need to be in the end
[16:28] <ReggieUK> I'd like to change that
[16:28] <ukscone> can't remember what it is though as i've been using buildroot for the last 1`0 or 15 kernels
[16:30] <ReggieUK> we have ridgerun, scratchbox, devroot and crosstool-ng that we can use
[16:30] <ukscone> hmmmm it took 1 hours to build opencobol and 45 minutes to 2 hours to run the test suite on a 400mhz mips proceessor and 312mhz pxa270 wonder how long it'd take on an r-pi
[16:31] <Thorn_> 3 minutes
[16:33] <ukscone> :)
[16:33] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:34] <ukscone> morning mdavey
[16:34] <ReggieUK> ok, so, what time is it ukscone?
[16:34] <ukscone> it's hammer time
[16:34] <ReggieUK> dun dun dun-dun, duun, duun, can't touch this
[16:35] <ukscone> do you know how to really annoy mc hammer?
[16:35] <ReggieUK> nope
[16:35] <ukscone> take him to an art gallery and say "you can't touch this"
[16:36] <ReggieUK> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12747635/Didj_LX/nightsky/nightsky
[16:36] <ReggieUK> binary
[16:36] <ukscone> w00t! take away chanserv and the logging bot and we have 20 humans in here
[16:36] <ReggieUK> buttons aren't done
[16:36] <ReggieUK> but the binary is
[16:36] <ukscone> :)
[16:36] <ukscone> hour and a half early
[16:36] <ReggieUK> might have to change where it looks for it's .configuration file but I can't see any major issues
[16:37] <ReggieUK> I might have a look with fiddling with some touchscreen code for it
[16:37] <ukscone> yup the configuration file stuff was a bit iff y too but that was the ancient uclibc and not the actual app that was at fault
[16:37] <ReggieUK> would be neat to tap the left/right/top/bottom of the screen to make it pan
[16:37] <ukscone> yup
[16:39] <ReggieUK> this site looks interesting
[16:39] <ReggieUK> http://www.skylive.it/default.aspx#&slider1=2
[16:39] <ukscone> hehehheeh i just found a picture i took last year of 40 arm devices. 40 r-pi's would probably take up 1 40th of the side of the pile
[16:39] <ReggieUK> Skylive project: internet controlled public telescopes
[16:40] <ukscone> http://russelldavis.org/ZipitZ2/S1050370.JPG
[16:43] <ReggieUK> nice
[16:45] <ukscone> i had to send that pile to a guy in france
[16:45] <ukscone> took repacking and still cost $400 although if i hadn't repacked them it'd have been near a grand
[16:46] <ukscone> http://russelldavis.org/ZipitZ2/S1050369.JPG that was the box they arrived in :)
[16:47] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, why on Earth do you have all that? D=
[16:47] <ShiftPlusOne> ah right, nvrm
[16:47] <ShiftPlusOne> actually, yeah why so many?
[16:48] <ShiftPlusOne> and is "The art of racing in the rain" actually about racing in the rain?
[16:49] <ShiftPlusOne> or is it like "The art of motorcycle maintenance" which isn't really about motorcycle maintenance?
[16:49] <ukscone> well those were for a friend in france but i have 20 of them too
[16:49] <ukscone> the art of facign in the rain is about a guy and a dog
[16:49] <ukscone> it's an artsy fsrtsy crappy womens book really
[16:50] <ShiftPlusOne> ah... "the art of motorcycle maintenance" is actually quiet awesome.
[16:50] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: they are zipit x2's which are pxa270, 320x240 lcd 32meg ram, 8 meg internal flash, keyboard devices which have been hacked to have usb host, u-boot and mainline kernel
[16:51] <ShiftPlusOne> lol "told from a dog's point of view"... interesting. 321 pages of "Woof, woof woof. Woof woof woof...."
[16:51] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, I know...I've ordered a few, remember?
[16:52] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: ah yes :) bu i have bene to sleep since then so my memory cold booted
[16:52] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[16:52] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: any eta on their arrival?
[16:53] <ShiftPlusOne> Whenever I order anything from USA I forget that I've ordered it before it arrives. It's like giving my future self a present. So yeah... not any time soon. I am guessing a few more weeks.
[16:54] <ukscone> :( still unexpected deliveries are fun
[16:54] <ukscone> unless it's from the stork
[16:54] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[16:55] <ukscone> ok need to run to the bathroom then up the road (10 blocks ) to the post office and pick up some cat food and supplies for the weekend -- bbiab
[16:55] <ShiftPlusOne> have fun
[17:01] <ReggieUK> any of those for sale ukscone?
[17:01] <ReggieUK> the zipits
[17:03] <ukscone> ReggieUK: they are availble from the auth'ed dealer but if they have run out i have a few spare
[17:04] <ukscone> http://russelldavis.org/2011/08/04/cheap-zipit-z2s/ auth'ed dealer info
[17:04] <ukscone> ok outta here
[17:05] <ReggieUK> I got the auth'd info but their shipping costs are horrendous
[17:06] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:07] <ukscone> ReggieUK: i presume it's to the uk?
[17:07] <ReggieUK> yes
[17:07] <ShiftPlusOne> I can't understand why yanks charge so much for shipping. =/
[17:07] <ukscone> anyway really outta here back in about 45 mins pm me then
[17:07] <ReggieUK> ok :)
[17:08] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, it's because most of them want to use a shipper that has a modicum of safety behind it
[17:08] <ReggieUK> they don't want comeback if the unit fails to be delivered
[17:09] <ShiftPlusOne> Well, I normally end up using USPS which is run by the government.
[17:09] <ReggieUK> so in general it depends whether you are prepared to risk your stuff coming through plain airmail and no tracking, assuming responsibility yourself if it fails to turn up
[17:09] <ReggieUK> and asking for a re-boxing too
[17:10] <ReggieUK> bbiab, time for food
[17:11] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, I'll use the time to decypher 'bbiab'
[17:11] <ShiftPlusOne> be...back.. in a little bit! =D
[17:11] <ShiftPlusOne> -little
[17:16] * Thorn_ glares at raspberry pi website and bangs fists on table
[17:17] <Thorn_> give us the q3 demo already!!
[17:18] <ShiftPlusOne> Woo! Specifying the latest stable kernel and the aboriginal arm patch makes a nice working kernel! =D
[17:18] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, I bet they're having a raspberry pi lan party playing quake right now
[17:19] <Thorn_> but they said it only runs at 30fps, quake 3 at 30fps won't be a very competitive match ;p
[17:20] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm,,, wonder if Team Arena would work
[17:20] <Thorn_> wonder if quakelive will work
[17:20] <ShiftPlusOne> is quake live the browser version?
[17:21] <Thorn_> yes, but the browser is just a launcher
[17:22] <ShiftPlusOne> well the wiki specifies x86 only
[17:24] <ShiftPlusOne> "The game is also censored to remove blood, gore, and satanic references that were found in Quake III Arena and is the only game in the series that was developed by id Software internally to be rated T by the ESRB."*sigh* pointless censorship
[17:25] <DaQatz> Because blood is offensive well you kill people.
[17:25] <DaQatz> while*
[17:25] <ShiftPlusOne> lol, that didn't even occur to me
[17:26] <ShiftPlusOne> Come to think of it most games with parental control have the 'no blood' option, but you're still on a killing spree.
[17:27] <DaQatz> Yeah
[17:27] <DaQatz> seems to me people are worried about the wrong stuff.
[17:28] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't think there's the 'right' thing to be worried about, but that's just me.
[17:29] <DaQatz> Well it's kinda like this. "Your child is drowning, but you're more concerned they are going to get wet."
[17:30] <DaQatz> If the parents are worried about violent bloody games. Don't censor the game stop your kid from playing it.
[17:30] <ShiftPlusOne> Well yeah, but there's an obvious problem with your child drowning, is there really a problem with violence in video games? 'course that's up to the parent to decide, but I don't see the problem.
[18:03] <ukscone> ok back
[18:03] <ukscone> ugh it damp outside like walking underwater in a swimming pool
[18:03] <ReggieUK> :/
[18:06] <ShiftPlusOne> do you guys use busybox or bash +gnu utils on your devices?
[18:06] <ReggieUK> leapfrog is mostly busybox
[18:07] <ReggieUK> anything else we have to build ourselves
[18:07] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm buildroot seems pretty bad at detecting config changes when compiling... it spits out the same thing even though I've changed some options =/
[18:08] <ukscone> i use both bash and busybox on the zipit
[18:08] <ukscone> and on the mipsbook
[18:08] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, thanks
[18:08] <ReggieUK> that's why I kinda like leapfrogs build system, you at least have 1/2 an idea of whats broken
[18:08] <ReggieUK> mainly cos you broke it
[18:08] <ShiftPlusOne> lol, nice.
[18:08] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: yes that's one of the things buildroot tells you -- it doesn't keep track of installs and changing bb, kernel and uclibc settings normally requires a complete from scratch rebuild
[18:09] <ukscone> and don't sneeze when using buildroot it'll break if you even jog the table
[18:09] <ReggieUK> that's something that's supplied for us, uclibc, which is slightly annoying
[18:10] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't know, it has been pretty good so far... the menuconfig interface is very elaborate.
[18:10] <ShiftPlusOne> I've been told to avoid uclibc like the plague
[18:11] <ReggieUK> don't have any choice on leapfrog really
[18:11] <ShiftPlusOne> shame
[18:11] <ukscone> w00t my girltech im-me is in da house
[18:11] <ReggieUK> they dip into glibc to get ls working but that's about it
[18:12] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, I'd paint it asap
[18:13] <ukscone> nah i'll leave it lavander because 1. i like lavander both the smell and the colour 2. noone will steal it off me because it's a girly colour 3. i'm going to hide it inside a different case anyway
[18:14] <ReggieUK> anyone had any thoughts on extra stuff you can do on i2c/spi ports on the r-pi?
[18:14] <ReggieUK> I was thinking of hooking up some temperature sensors to it
[18:15] <ReggieUK> ds18b20's and an sht11, that's temperature i2c on the ds's and temp/humidity on the spi
[18:17] <ReggieUK> I already have some code for an arduino that does what I want, so I could just connect that via serial
[18:17] <ReggieUK> or use the r-pi to control it directly
[18:41] <DaQatz> ukscone, "girltech im-me" You looking to disrupt government comms?
[18:43] <ukscone> DaQatz: nope :) the wife would kill me
[18:43] <ukscone> but it has lots of fun things you can do with it and well it's something to mess with on cold winter nights
[18:43] <ukscone> although i hope to be up to my elbows in raspberry pi's
[18:45] * DaQatz nods.
[18:47] <ukscone> i want to find a gutted bbc micro case and keyboard (a bbc micro that wouks would be nice but i don't want to kill a working one) for the r-pi for one of them another is going to go in a camputers lynx case and if i can find a newbrain case with the vfd on it that might be nice for a r-pi too if i can get matrix keyboard to usb keyboard working
[20:25] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, are you around?
[20:30] <ukscone> yup
[20:31] <ukscone> for a few -- cooking for the duration :) apple pie, chicken pot pie and mac and cheese
[20:33] <ShiftPlusOne> How would you got about building a busybox-less, uclibc-less root fs? Aboriginal seems to be uclibc only and buildroot doesnt seem to work too well without busybox
[20:34] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:34] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning
[20:37] * Thorn_ bangs fists on table like a whining child again
[20:37] <Thorn_> i want q3 demo!!!
[20:43] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: well i'd probably use openembedded (angstrom) or use scratchbox2 with a debian seed rootfs
[20:43] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: or roll my own using code sourcery toolchain or crosstool-NG
[20:45] <ShiftPlusOne> thank you
[20:46] <ukscone> i'll be afk for about 20 mins while i put stuff in the oven
[21:14] <ukscone> quake3 demo vid up
[21:18] <Thorn_> :O
[21:19] <ukscone> and put the closed captoons on for it too
[21:27] <ShiftPlusOne> awesome
[21:29] <ShiftPlusOne> A little anticlimactic
[21:30] <ukscone> yeah, i expected liz and eben to be playign a death match over who does the dishes
[21:30] <Thorn_> ^
[21:41] <ShiftPlusOne> yay, finally got openembedded doing something.... progress!
[21:46] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: ok so you should be finished by monday :)
[21:47] <ukscone> did you install psych?
[21:47] <ukscone> psyco even
[21:47] <ShiftPlusOne> what's psyco?
[21:48] <ShiftPlusOne> Oh I see... interesting
[21:48] <ukscone> a jit python speederupper
[21:49] <ShiftPlusOne> I've got 2.7 though and it says it's not supported
[21:50] <ukscone> ah
[21:50] <ShiftPlusOne> oh and I wasn't trying to be a sarcastic jerk with the "Oh I see... interesting", it was just that I googled it.
[21:50] <ukscone> last time i used oe i was still usng 2.5
[21:51] <ShiftPlusOne> OE has it's own python bundled?
[21:51] <ukscone> just checked with the u-boot pxa maintainer he says u-boot does have an arm11 port (1176)
[21:51] <ukscone> there might be some problems but the base code is there
[21:52] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, more good news =)
[21:52] <ukscone> @NYCMayorsOfficeNYC Mayor's Office??MTA & and airports shutting down. Ferries have stopped or will soon. Time is running out. If you're in an evacuation area, leave now.??#Irene
[21:52] <ukscone> hehehehheehhehehehe
[21:53] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[21:53] <ukscone> the sky is falling the sky is falling
[21:53] <ukscone> says 40+mph winds will start at 9pm
[21:54] <ukscone> i lent my landlord my bike chain and lock to chain stuff up in the backyard -- nothing is going to break it it's about 50 pounds of 1 inch steel chain and a 10 pound lock
[21:54] <ShiftPlusOne> "Running task 49 of 437" =/ ok this is going to take a while it seems
[21:56] <ukscone> only 437 tasks? a full rootfs is about 2000 to 4000 tasks
[21:57] <ShiftPlusOne> this is just nano (as a test)
[21:57] <ukscone> ah
[21:57] <ShiftPlusOne> Seems like I've been under a rock for a while... first I am hearing of the hurricane.
[22:05] <mdavey> Gert confirms the SoC to be used in the R.Pi!
[22:05] <ReggieUK> must've been a big rock ShiftPlusOne, they've been gearing up for it for about a week
[22:05] <Thorn_> Gearing up? They were too busy dramatising the whole ordeal to gear up
[22:06] <ukscone> ok dr who time back in an hour
[22:09] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:12] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, yup. I don't watch TV and I've been studying for mid-semester assessments. Also, I've switched from windows to linux and didn't set my homepage to what I normally have (RSS feeds), so I've been completely detached from the outside world =)
[22:12] <ReggieUK> :)
[22:13] <mdavey> Doctor who-oo. Doctor Who! Doctor Who!
[22:13] <ShiftPlusOne> oh... I went to work a few times and also watched the new planet of the apes movie with the ex... but the hurricane wasn't brought up.
[22:13] <ReggieUK> are you anywhere near the east coast of usa?
[22:13] <ReggieUK> north east even by now
[22:13] <ShiftPlusOne> I am watching the old Doctor Who episodes from the first doctor =)
[22:14] <ReggieUK> define first doctor
[22:14] <ShiftPlusOne> Hartnell
[22:14] <ReggieUK> ahh, THE doctor
[22:14] <ShiftPlusOne> and no I am nowhere near the east cost... I am so far on the west coast that I am in Australia.
[22:15] <ReggieUK> ha :)
[22:16] <ShiftPlusOne> but yeah, I am told it doesn't get good until Baker.
[22:16] <ShiftPlusOne> I did like the 2005 series more than what I've seen so far.
[22:17] <Thorn_> liked most of the new doctor who series apart from the last two
[22:17] <Thorn_> the newest guy just acts (and looks) like a twat, and he has that annoying brat along with him all the time, the ginger
[22:17] <ShiftPlusOne> lol!
[22:18] <Thorn_> i find it so childish i'm honestly surprised they dont air it on CBBC/Cbeebies
[22:19] <ShiftPlusOne> Well it IS meant to be a children's show.
[22:19] <mdavey> R.Pi homepage is updated
[22:19] <Thorn_> the series prior certainly weren't
[22:19] <ShiftPlusOne> to phpBB? >=/
[22:20] <Thorn_> so a show that revolves around violence, and the constant threat of earths doomsday is a childrens show?
[22:20] <Thorn_> :D
[22:20] <ShiftPlusOne> yes
[22:20] <mdavey> ShiftPlusOne: homepage, not forum.
[22:20] <ShiftPlusOne> =(
[22:22] <Thorn_> phpbb? ew that's worse than mingle :D
[22:22] <Thorn_> does it still have >9000 security exploits? :D
[22:22] <ReggieUK> I've had the pleasure of enjoying dr who all my life (or as long as I can rememember which is close enough)
[22:23] <ReggieUK> the earlier dr who's had to be appreciated in context to the crap tv in general that we got on british tv at those times
[22:23] <ShiftPlusOne> phpbb is by far one of the most secure forums out there
[22:23] <ShiftPlusOne> hell with SMF you can upload a php shell as a theme!
[22:24] <ReggieUK> I've enjoyed the latest series, it's been intriguing
[22:25] <ShiftPlusOne> I am a newcomer to the whole Dr Who thing, and it fills a void left by the Sliders ending, so it's good enough for me.
[22:27] <DaQatz> Lol ShiftPlusOne
[22:27] <DaQatz> I just finished watching all of sliders
[22:27] <DaQatz> And just started watching Drwho starting from ep1 of the first series.
[22:28] <DaQatz> The 60's one.
[22:28] * Welsh (~Welsh@cpc3-neat4-2-0-cust143.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:28] <Welsh> Evening
[22:28] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning
[22:28] <DaQatz> Welcome
[22:29] <Thorn_> You will be assimilated.
[22:29] <Welsh> DaQatz: Thank you
[22:29] <Welsh> Thorn_: Of course :P
[22:30] <Welsh> so, anyone talking about anything?
[22:30] <ShiftPlusOne> Welsh, Dr Who
[22:30] <Welsh> I know :3
[22:30] <Welsh> How would a welsh man not know about Dr Who?
[22:30] <ShiftPlusOne> irc logs?
[22:31] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, I am lost
[22:31] <Welsh> ?
[22:31] <ShiftPlusOne> Just before you came in we were talking about Dr Who
[22:31] <Thorn_> you know what's utterly revolting
[22:31] <Welsh> Ah, sorry
[22:31] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't know how you could possibly know that without checking the IRC logs
[22:31] <Thorn_> Torchwood
[22:31] <Thorn_> the new series is a new level of bad that the previous seasons did not match
[22:32] <Welsh> i thought you were talking about something else for some reason...
[22:32] <Welsh> it's was made by some american this time, that's why
[22:32] <ReggieUK> not sure if I'm keen on torchwood
[22:32] <Thorn_> It was bad enoguh before, it's just terrible now
[22:32] * ShiftPlusOne makes sure mdavey isn't around.
[22:32] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah, the yanks ruin everything.
[22:33] <ReggieUK> Is he american?
[22:33] <ReggieUK> are you talking about rex or jack?
[22:33] <Welsh> No, the company producing it
[22:33] <Welsh> is american
[22:33] <ReggieUK> ahh
[22:33] <ReggieUK> eww
[22:33] <Welsh> That's why it's set in america this time
[22:34] <ReggieUK> its been a bit of everywhere hasn't it?
[22:34] <ReggieUK> wales and 'merica
[22:34] * mdavey isn't a merkan.
[22:34] <Thorn_> yeah, it's kind of doctor who's bastard child that sells itself to whoever will give it the most attention, now it's america it seems
[22:35] <ReggieUK> I thought it was a vehicle for john barrowmans career
[22:35] <Welsh> Well, even the bbc has to make monies
[22:35] <Thorn_> Let's not even get started about the bbc and money :P
[22:35] <ReggieUK> the amount of cash they get for license fees they don't need to make money
[22:35] * Thorn_ stares at the 'TV license'
[22:35] <mdavey> I was actually enjoying this Torchwood. Except for the last two episodes.
[22:36] <ReggieUK> which bits didn't you like?
[22:36] <ShiftPlusOne> geoip time!
[22:36] <ShiftPlusOne> ah.... I thought I remembered you saying you were American somewhere on the forum.
[22:37] <mdavey> the ep before last seemed to just be a plot development episode. And the last one with the flashbacks was kinda rubbish and felt likt they were just trying to be controversial.
[22:37] <Welsh> Anyone catch Dr Who tonight?
[22:37] <mdavey> watching it now. Actually I have it on pause right now.
[22:38] <mdavey> right, will bbl - going to finish watching it
[22:38] <Welsh> It's good, but it's a Moffat, so expect to leave with more questions than answers
[22:38] <ReggieUK> mdavey, got to agree with you there, I don't mind the plot development but perlease, the whole plot line seems to be revolving around this single backstory
[22:39] <ReggieUK> a jilted boyfriend
[22:39] <Welsh> Isn't that all that tourchwood revolves around?
[22:39] <Welsh> A guy Jack is involved with?
[22:39] <Thorn_> yeah there's another thing
[22:39] <Welsh> First his ex-partner, then his brother
[22:39] <Thorn_> Torchwood seems to 'sponser' homosexuality
[22:40] <Thorn_> An episode does not go by where it is not featured or referenced ;\
[22:40] <Welsh> And?
[22:40] <Thorn_> it seems they do it for they sake of doing it
[22:41] <Welsh> I think they do it because they can in the timeslot it's shown
[22:42] <Welsh> Theres a lot of straight stuff in the other series' but this one is just jack by the look of it
[22:42] <Thorn_> i get it - jack's gay, but they seem to love shoving that down everyones throat _every episode_ like it's more fashionable than the main plot
[22:43] <Welsh> Jack's actually multi-sexual :P (If you go by the series)
[22:43] <Welsh> He's from a time where no one cares
[22:44] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:44] <Thorn_> more relevant to rpi :
[22:45] <Thorn_> http://madsy.net/ who wants to lay bets that this is faster than the raspberry pi FPU ?
[22:47] <Welsh> Hmmm.... Raspberry Pi + Old protable tv + Old mobile + Webcam = Portable video phone for thirdworld countries and disaster areas?
[22:49] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:50] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:51] * Welsh (~Welsh@cpc3-neat4-2-0-cust143.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!)
[23:00] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[23:30] <ShiftPlusOne> ok OE doesn't agree with me. Having trouble getting the codesourcery toolchain working. config files are a bit too confusing for me.
[23:42] * jimerickson (~jimericks@97-125-248-104.desm.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:48] <ShiftPlusOne> nvrm, got around that problem

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.