#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-09-05

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:26] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:39] * PaulW (~PaulW@CPE001310360dac-CM001e6b0f7310.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:08] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:20] * IT_Sean hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmms
[1:21] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:01] * Eric___ (~chatzilla@pool-96-224-187-90.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] * Eric___ (~chatzilla@pool-96-224-187-90.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:12] * ukscone twiddles his thumbs
[2:14] * IT_Sean also twiddles ukscone's thumbs
[2:15] <ukscone> prevert
[2:15] <ukscone> stranger danger
[2:15] <ukscone> and they don't come much stranger than IT_Sean
[2:16] <IT_Sean> :p
[2:16] * IT_Sean tries to get his keyboard backlight working
[2:18] <IT_Sean> brb... rebooting. If i'm not back in a few minutes, it means i bricked my system
[2:18] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: BRB!)
[2:21] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:22] <ukscone> obviously you didn't brick it
[2:22] * IT_Sean grumbles
[2:22] <IT_Sean> no
[2:22] <IT_Sean> But, i didn't get the keyboard backlight to work either
[2:22] <ukscone> tape a flashlight to your head
[2:23] <IT_Sean> :.
[2:23] <IT_Sean> That is apocalyptically unhelpful
[2:23] <ukscone> works for me
[2:24] <ukscone> i have a bike helmet light on atm
[2:24] * IT_Sean misses his illuminated keyboard
[2:24] <ukscone> as wife turns the lights off at 8pm
[2:26] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@ Quit (Quit: And therefore, dye this sky red. The time has come again for my body to only go forward / Even the 'people' who pass by and the 'things' which become lost in confusion / Will one day be like vanished memories)
[2:26] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@adsl-75-16-237-76.dsl.kntpin.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:29] * IT_Sean fiddles with his pommed.conf file
[2:29] * PaulW (~PaulW@CPE001310360dac-CM001e6b0f7310.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:31] * IT_Sean is rebooting again
[2:31] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: just edited pommed.conf and is now rebooting)
[2:34] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:34] * IT_Sean gives up
[2:35] <ukscone> did you try hitting it?
[2:36] <ukscone> swearing at it some times works too
[2:36] <IT_Sean> aye, it hasn't worked.
[2:36] <ukscone> i find threats especially of defenistration particularly effective
[2:37] <ReggieUK> did you try powering off, wait 30 seconds and power on again?
[2:37] <IT_Sean> how do you defenistrate a computer?
[2:37] <ReggieUK> open the window first, lift the machine to window height, accelerate towards window let go as you reach window
[2:37] <IT_Sean> It's more an issue of it not acually working out of the box with this distro of linux.
[2:38] <ukscone> reformat and install windows then
[2:38] * ukscone ducks
[2:39] * ReggieUK giggles and ducks
[2:39] <IT_Sean> on a PPC based Mac...
[2:39] <IT_Sean> It's won't run windows.
[2:39] <ReggieUK> that's steves fault and no one elses
[2:40] * IT_Sean has a new, Intel mac, but, it isn't a portable
[2:45] <IT_Sean> My iPad handles all of my mobile needs.
[2:45] <ukscone> i need an alphaboard -- i have been building stuff all day but i don't know if it'll run on real hardware
[2:45] <IT_Sean> This old PBook is basically just a portable desktop at this point
[2:45] <ukscone> it should but who really knows
[2:46] <IT_Sean> good luck w/ that
[2:46] <ReggieUK> put your stuff you want tested on dropbox, link to the files, post on the forum asking that if a dev has any spare time and fancies it, to DL your binaries and test (explaining that you're getting qemu up and running etc.)
[2:47] <ReggieUK> might get a response
[2:47] <ukscone> yup sent some pm's for a few things
[2:48] <ukscone> need to get a final word on which distro they are going to use so i can seed sb2 properly
[2:48] <ReggieUK> as it's direct dev work that they don't have to do they might look kindly on it (you'd hope they would as it'd probably be the first community user contribution and is no mean feat without a board!!)
[2:49] <ukscone> i'm going to finish setting up qemu and might see if a can make a machine for it too
[2:50] <ukscone> the thing i really need to know about is accessing the display from the arm side (just for framebuffer or sdl or directfb) once i know thta i cna start patching SDLbasic, brandy, blassic etc
[2:50] <ukscone> i have asked jamesh to try running a binary of interp as a kernel.img. if that works i'll be extremely happy
[2:51] <ReggieUK> what is interp?
[2:51] <ukscone> i've got to upload the rest of the stuff but i'm putting all my binaries and patches in http://russelldavis.org/Raspi
[2:52] <ukscone> http://interp.sourceforge.net
[3:06] <ReggieUK> I see your post on the forums
[3:06] <ReggieUK> I think I'm going to stop going on there for a few days
[3:06] <ReggieUK> then there might actually be a post worth reading up there
[3:06] * IT_Sean rolls his eyes
[3:06] <ReggieUK> not that I'm saying your post wasn't worth reading
[3:07] <ReggieUK> what's the roll eyes for IT_Sean?
[3:07] <IT_Sean> your forum comment :p
[3:08] <ReggieUK> still not sure why you rolled eyes?
[3:08] <IT_Sean> the fact that you feel there is only a post worth reading every few days
[3:09] <ukscone> well theere has been a lot of trolling and people who need a clue by four around the head
[3:09] <IT_Sean> urft
[3:09] <ukscone> i have a few names i just skip over if i see a post by them
[3:09] <ReggieUK> well, there seem to be a lot of well intentioned posts but nothing of any worthy note that hasn't already been covered
[3:09] <ReggieUK> and it's not that I think there won't be any decent posts for days
[3:10] * IT_Sean wishes he'd kept his clue by four when he left his old job
[3:10] <ReggieUK> it's that if I leave it long enough there might be some content that will keep me occupied for longer than about 2mins
[3:10] <IT_Sean> shh
[3:10] <IT_Sean> *ahh
[3:12] <ReggieUK> last post I read was about PSU
[3:13] <ReggieUK> and it's slightly numbing :D
[3:13] * IT_Sean wonders what ever happened to his clue by four. He hopes the floods didn't take it :/
[3:13] <ReggieUK> arguing the toss over whether usb power or some other random power source would be best
[3:14] <IT_Sean> hasn't ot got a barrel plug?
[3:14] <IT_Sean> *it
[3:14] <ReggieUK> it was all I could do to stop myself from posting a picture of a lemon with a couple of bits of metal and some wires coming out of it
[3:14] <IT_Sean> You should have
[3:14] <ukscone> :)
[3:14] <ReggieUK> yeah, I believe it does have a barrel socket on it
[3:14] <ukscone> yup
[3:14] * IT_Sean wonders how many lemons it'd take to run an rpi
[3:14] <IT_Sean> :p
[3:14] <ukscone> well it'll take one slice
[3:15] <ukscone> i'll put it in my gin and tonic while i whip the kid on a treadmill
[3:15] <ukscone> i'll need to get a few extra slaves though s i think he'd only be able to power it for an hour before needing to be replaced
[3:16] <IT_Sean> is 12 volts in the acceptable input range? If so... ... ... carputer :p
[3:17] <ukscone> think they said 6v to 20v
[3:17] <ReggieUK> I believe atm it'll a 6-20V input
[3:17] <IT_Sean> niiiice
[3:17] <IT_Sean> that's a handy range
[3:17] <ReggieUK> that's a dead handy range
[3:17] <IT_Sean> just about any wallwart out there then
[3:17] <ReggieUK> just about any 12v battery too
[3:17] <IT_Sean> aye
[3:18] <IT_Sean> or a 9v battery (although, that probably wouldn't work for very long)
[3:18] <ReggieUK> so that means it's going to plug directly into my 12v 7ah battery
[3:23] * IT_Sean is glad he has tomorrow off
[4:00] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[4:51] <stasis> good morning everyone
[4:51] <atts> in what part of the world is it morning?
[4:51] <atts> and good morning
[4:52] <stasis> I'm in Singapore now
[4:52] <stasis> yourself?
[4:53] <atts> boston
[4:53] <atts> it is very dark atm
[4:53] <stasis> fair enough
[4:54] <stasis> just catching up on the chat logs for the last few days, been AFK
[4:58] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has left #raspberrypi
[5:43] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@adsl-75-16-237-76.dsl.kntpin.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[6:24] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:46] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:55] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:30] <stasis> *knock knock*
[8:37] <ahven> who's there? :)
[8:38] * Stskeeps (~cvm@Maemo/community/distmaster/Stskeeps) has left #raspberrypi
[8:43] <stasis> to!
[8:59] * jzu (~jzu@sete.opentrust.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:02] * jzu (~jzu@sete.opentrust.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:27] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, pong?
[9:34] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@203-214-38-201.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:44] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:08] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:19] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@203-214-38-201.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:29] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, woo... zipits arrived
[10:42] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:46] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5650.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[10:50] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5650.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:06] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5650.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:13] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5650.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:18] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5650.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[11:21] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad39.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:22] * _Thorn_ (~thorn@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:22] <_Thorn_> morning
[11:26] <ShiftPlusOne> hey
[11:28] <_Thorn_> left my pubkey at home, and disabled sshd pass authentication, can't login to Thorn_ ;P
[11:28] <_Thorn_> privkey*
[11:41] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@203-214-38-201.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:42] * _Thorn_ (~thorn@ Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[12:10] <stasis> lol
[12:10] <stasis> i take it you're at the office?
[12:37] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:42] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:28] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@203-214-38-201.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:41] <ShiftPlusOne> Does anyone have the URL for ukscone's blog?
[13:48] <ShiftPlusOne> nvrm, found it
[13:57] <ahven> wikipedia page on raspi is nice
[14:07] * mdavey_ (~chatzilla@visitor-net.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:08] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:08] * mdavey_ is now known as mdavey
[14:20] * mdavey_ (~chatzilla@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] * mdavey (~chatzilla@visitor-net.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[14:20] * mdavey_ is now known as mdavey
[14:26] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:38] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:10] * PaulW (~PaulW@CPE001310360dac-CM001e6b0f7310.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:49] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[16:27] <ahven> found out that SLC SD-s are not worth it when not dealing with critical platforms
[16:28] <ShiftPlusOne> SLC?
[16:28] <ahven> single layer card
[16:28] <ShiftPlusOne> ah
[16:29] <ahven> SLC costs ~7x more money than MLC
[16:30] <ahven> atleast with 2GB cards
[16:30] <ShiftPlusOne> and what's meant to be the benefit?
[16:31] <ahven> ~10x more write cycles
[16:31] <ShiftPlusOne> nice
[16:31] <Thorn_> i prefer light cycles
[16:31] <Thorn_> they looked cool in the movie
[16:33] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, how's the qemu stuff coming along?
[16:33] <Thorn_> dunno just got home
[16:34] <Thorn_> falling asleep to jean michel jarre rather rapidly
[16:34] <ShiftPlusOne> nice
[16:34] <Thorn_> 1hr sleep +6am start sucks
[16:34] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[16:34] <ShiftPlusOne> when that happen I tend to wake up to the phone ringing and "why aren't you at work yet!?"
[16:39] <ahven> :)
[16:43] <ahven> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/transcend-8gb-sdhc-sd-card-class-10-high-speed-10679
[16:43] <ahven> woah :)
[16:44] <ShiftPlusOne> I just ordered 4 10gb class 10 cards... if the price on that site is lower, I'll slap someone
[16:44] <ShiftPlusOne> nope
[16:44] <ShiftPlusOne> yay... good ol' ebay
[16:45] <ahven> 10gb? interesting size
[16:45] <ahven> usually it is power of 2
[16:47] <ShiftPlusOne> *8
[16:47] <ShiftPlusOne> I was thinking class 10 while writing 8gb
[16:48] <ahven> would go smaller, but there doesn't seem to be anything that fast and so small
[16:52] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:54] <ShiftPlusOne> dear lord... the default software on the z2 makes me want to stab someone
[17:08] <mdavey> got any links for cheap class 10 8gb cards?
[17:09] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:10] <ahven> yep
[17:10] <ahven> check up :)
[17:14] <ahven> ok, ebay is a bit cheaper
[17:15] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:16] <ShiftPlusOne> I made sure to buy Kingston though, 'cause I haven't had bad experience with them and ebay can be a dodgy place.
[17:19] <IT_Sean> That's an understatment
[17:21] <ShiftPlusOne> meh, if you're smart about it and know how to file a good paypal dispute, it's fine.
[17:22] <IT_Sean> I've only ever had one problem
[17:22] <IT_Sean> I buy & sell on a somewhat regular basis.
[17:22] <IT_Sean> But, it can be dodgy.
[17:22] <ShiftPlusOne> selling can be a pain, 'cause the burden of proof is on you most of the time.
[17:23] <IT_Sean> indeed
[17:23] <IT_Sean> i document the hell out of everything when i sell on ebay
[17:24] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, my brother sells a lot of stuff from overseas (ships it here, then we ship it out to the buyers), so we have to take a photo of every single package and receipt. =/
[17:24] <IT_Sean> I had one buyer claim the package never arrived.
[17:24] <IT_Sean> Luckily, it had tracking on it
[17:24] <IT_Sean> So i was able to proove that it had, indeed, been delivered.
[17:25] <ShiftPlusOne> do you offer tracking-only or standard postage as well?
[17:25] <IT_Sean> i only offer shipping w/ tracking
[17:26] <IT_Sean> Don't want to pay for tracking? p*ss off and buy from someone else... I'm not taking the risk of you ripping me off.
[17:26] <ShiftPlusOne> then you're pretty safe, unless it actually does get lost in the mail
[17:26] <ShiftPlusOne> actually you're safe then as well 'cause it's not your responsibility.
[17:26] <IT_Sean> exactly.
[17:26] <ukscone> morning all
[17:26] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning
[17:26] <IT_Sean> I also photograph the recipt from UPS / USPS to show i catually turned the item over to them.
[17:26] <IT_Sean> *actually
[17:29] <atts> morning
[17:30] <IT_Sean> morning atts
[17:31] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: did your z2's arrive or something?
[17:31] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, yup... turns out I ordered 4.
[17:32] <ShiftPlusOne> so if someone in Australia contacts you looking for them and wants to save on shipping, I've got a few to spare.
[17:33] <ukscone> ok will do
[17:33] <ukscone> so have you put the serial mod on it yet?
[17:34] <ukscone> geordy's version of the mod is beautiful although the quick method is ok
[17:34] <ShiftPlusOne> the one that needs the chip and socket?
[17:34] <ukscone> well mine is like that except no chip because the chip is in the cable
[17:34] <ukscone> but yes
[17:35] <ukscone> mine is just wired up to the headphone socket and using a nokia ca-42 cable
[17:35] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, I might as well order that chip and jack.
[17:36] <ShiftPlusOne> also, where can I get that cable that the z2 uses? For the connector at the back?
[17:37] <ukscone> well in theory we aren't allowed to post the pin out on non-zipitwireless sites but the info is available
[17:37] <ukscone> the connector is available from digikey
[17:37] <ukscone> let me see if i can get the info for you mompls
[17:39] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&KeyWords=ST40X-36S-CV%2880%29&x=0&y=0 that's the connector for building a cable
[17:40] <ShiftPlusOne> thanks, hopefully element14 have it.
[17:43] * PiBot (~Raspberry@2001:55c:1822:86bf:bad:1dea:feed:face) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[17:47] * PiBot (~Raspberry@2001:55c:1822:86bf:bad:1dea:feed:face) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[17:50] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@2001:0:4137:9e76:28f8:26d4:b4ef:12b3) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:57] <ukscone> blurgh!!!!!!!! the half and half i just put in my coffee has turned -- disgusting
[17:57] * ukscone shudders
[17:57] <IT_Sean> ??
[17:57] <IT_Sean> Wasn't it disgusting to begin with?
[17:57] <ukscone> just got a mouse of sour half and half
[17:57] <IT_Sean> ick
[17:57] <ukscone> i have a cold so can't smell
[17:58] <ukscone> s/mouse/mouth
[17:58] <IT_Sean> blechc
[17:58] <IT_Sean> *blech
[17:58] <IT_Sean> serves you so for drinking coffee
[17:58] <IT_Sean> Vile fluid, that is
[17:59] <ukscone> can't function without it or a strong mug of tea
[17:59] <ukscone> i have cut down though
[17:59] <IT_Sean> I cannot stand coffee.
[18:00] <ukscone> used to be a 25 to 30 cup a day man now i'm down to 2 to 5
[18:00] <IT_Sean> 30 in a day?
[18:00] <IT_Sean> O.O
[18:00] <ukscone> yup
[18:01] <ukscone> had it in an iv
[18:01] <IT_Sean> heh
[18:01] <ukscone> mainlined into my veins
[18:01] <IT_Sean> I usually have a cuppa tea in the morning, then switch to water / the somewhat vile fruit juice like substance my office stocks
[18:02] <IT_Sean> erft... I have one last bit of flat pack furniture i have to assemble tomorrow, when i get back to work. :/
[18:03] <IT_Sean> 'less the intern shows up. In which case, i can make him do it.
[18:04] * IT_Sean goes to get some lunch
[18:16] <ukscone> w00t the binaries i built using scratchbox2 run on the real device :)
[18:16] <ukscone> so i have a working development environment
[18:24] <DaQatz> Dang nice
[18:26] <IT_Sean> WOOT
[18:26] <DaQatz> What version of GCC you have working in it?
[18:31] <ukscone> i'm using 2011.03 codesourcery
[18:31] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:33] <ukscone> now to remember the exact process i used to set it up -- it's not the exact method in the sb2 docs and it wasn't quite the same as in my blog post as i needed stuff that isn't the latest in the debian/ubuntu repositories and built everything myself (apart from codesourcery)
[18:38] <DaQatz> Yeah I've been trying with buildroot
[18:38] <DaQatz> It's a bit of an uphill battle.
[18:41] <ShiftPlusOne> buildroot is not worth the hassle
[18:41] <ukscone> as the choosen "blessed" distro won't be using uClibc (i don't think so as the r-pi isn't really an embedded device) i decided buildroot will eb a waste and sb2 is so much easier
[18:42] <ukscone> buildroot has it's uses especially for tiny low ram/small onboard storage devices
[18:43] <ukscone> all i need now is to build a rootfs to use with qemu and then i'll have everything i need for building and messing with stuff until i get my sticky mitts on a r-pi
[18:43] <DaQatz> I would only use it to build a working on device dev enviro. Working on the device will be far more stable.
[18:43] <ukscone> i have several large pockets just need to distract liz on the 17th
[18:44] <ukscone> DaQatz: that's great when you have the device but not much good when you don't yet and want to start porting stuff
[18:45] <ukscone> and again building stuff on an sd card is not a recommended practice. ok for using interpreters but runnign gcc on sd cards isn't a fun activity
[18:45] <DaQatz> I would not build on SD
[18:45] <ukscone> you could use the hub for a usb hd of course
[18:45] <DaQatz> Or a network share
[18:45] <jbuck> what's wrong with building on an SD card? slow IO?
[18:46] <DaQatz> Done that before
[18:46] <DaQatz> jbuck, They have limited write cyclesd
[18:46] <jbuck> riiiiight
[18:46] <ukscone> jbuck: lots of tempory files when compiling, can wear out the card
[18:46] <ukscone> and it can be slow
[18:46] <jbuck> that would make more sense
[18:47] <DaQatz> Isn't that what I said?
[18:47] <ukscone> also cross compiling on a dual core 2.2Ghz system is much fater than on a single core 700Mhz system
[18:47] <ukscone> s/fater/faster
[18:48] <DaQatz> Yes it is, but cross compiling has many issues.
[18:48] <ukscone> also the nice thing about sb2 is you can skip the qemu emulation and use the real device for the stuff that needs to run on the real device for compiling
[18:48] <ukscone> DaQatz: not if you use sb2
[18:49] <ukscone> it's cross compiling but it can be done using cpu on the device too
[18:50] <DaQatz> Not familiar with sb2.
[18:50] <ukscone> DaQatz: the hardest part of cross compiling is setting up the cross toolchain, once you have done that it's pretty much the same as native compiling
[18:51] <DaQatz> ukscone, not in my experience.
[18:51] <DaQatz> Getting the tool chain is pretty easy
[18:51] <ukscone> DaQatz: well i have been cross compiling for over 20 years and get your tools right it's easy
[18:51] <ukscone> i used to use an ibm 4381 to compile for z80 :)
[18:52] <DaQatz> Once that is built, It's all ways building the programs that breaks for me.
[18:52] <DaQatz> Then hours of debugging and patching.
[18:52] <ukscone> DaQatz: that's because you have the wrong tools
[18:52] <ukscone> also configure sucks
[18:52] <DaQatz> Yes configure sucks
[18:53] <ukscone> half the cross compiling problems can be laid at configures door
[18:53] <DaQatz> Many times I wish I could strange who ever wrote uname
[18:53] <DaQatz> strangle*
[18:53] <ukscone> get rid of configure, write the makefile correctly and cross compiling is as simple as native compiling
[18:53] <DaQatz> People mis using it
[18:54] <ukscone> DaQatz: the thing that annoys me about configure is people using it when there is no need
[18:55] <ukscone> the next thing that annoys me about cross compiling is people using all these different programs for building CMake, the python one i forget the name of and stuff like that
[18:55] <ShiftPlusOne> >.>
[18:55] <ShiftPlusOne> <.<
[18:55] <ShiftPlusOne> leave CMake alone
[18:55] <DaQatz> So pretty much you're saying my issue is trying to use the default build scripts.
[18:55] <ukscone> default scripts when there is no need for them even to exist
[18:57] <ukscone> i've seen a two file c program of about 200 lines that the configure stuff and makefile is about 10000 lines
[18:57] <ukscone> when all they had to do was gcc file.c -o outfile
[18:57] <DaQatz> lol
[18:57] <ukscone> the thing that is pissing me off atm is the build scripts for euphoria
[18:58] <ukscone> it fails if you don't have mercurial and python when it doesn't even use them other than to annoy me
[18:59] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:00] <ukscone> all things being equal then native compiling is desirable but as soon as their is something non-standard about the target hardware i.e. low ram, small storage or non-hd storage then cross compiling is probably the way to go
[19:00] <ukscone> s/their/there
[19:01] <DaQatz> Hmm I'm had my router compiling mips stuff pretty well in the past.
[19:02] <ukscone> i'm not saying you can't compile on the device i'm just saying there are times when it's better in the long run to do it cross
[19:02] <ukscone> if only for time
[19:02] <ukscone> cross compiling is another tool in your programmer toolkit and something that will only ever add to your worth
[19:03] <DaQatz> Yes, have done it many times in the past.
[19:03] <ukscone> if you are pragmatic and choose the write programmign language for the job then you shoudl also coose the right building method for the job too
[19:03] <DaQatz> Just never liked it do to breakage and head aches.
[19:03] <Thorn_> the right build method is always native!
[19:03] <ukscone> oh gawd my brain is not in gear with my fingers
[19:03] <ukscone> write/right, their/there
[19:03] <ukscone> stupid fingers
[19:03] <Thorn_> anyone who says otherwise is a witch and should be burned
[19:04] <ukscone> Thorn_: you are in scotland so you oppinion doesn't count.
[19:04] <Thorn_> what oppinion is that?
[19:04] * Thorn_ ducks
[19:04] <ukscone> your are northern barbarians not allowed in civillized parts
[19:05] <DaQatz> Plus most of my compiling is done for testing. And cross compile, move to device, and run. Isn't the best method.
[19:05] <ukscone> how did you get past hadrians wall anyway
[19:05] * Thorn_ slaps ukscone with his warhammer
[19:05] <ukscone> i thought we'd rebuilt it and put barbwire on it
[19:05] <DaQatz> Especially when I want to be sure it will build on the device.
[19:06] <Thorn_> you make take our freedom, but you will NEVER take our internet!!
[19:06] <Thorn_> may*
[19:06] <Thorn_> :(
[19:06] <DaQatz> Unless the clip the wire
[19:06] <ukscone> Thorn_: is that woad you are wearing or is it just bloody cold
[19:06] <Thorn_> weather has been pretty sunny today
[19:07] <Thorn_> quite nice
[19:07] <IT_Sean> it's clouding over here
[19:14] <DaQatz> Supposed to storm here too.
[19:21] <ukscone> looks like rain is coming here too
[19:22] <ukscone> http://www.wunderground.com/radar/mixedcomposite.asp?region=b5&size=2x&ID=DIX19
[19:23] <ukscone> looks like most is going to slide north and west of us though
[19:24] <DaQatz> !w forecast
[19:24] <PiBot> Not found.
[19:25] <DaQatz> !w forecast 03901
[19:25] <PiBot> DaQatz: in Berwick, ME on 2011-09-05 15:51:00 +0000 temperature 80??F 27??C, condition Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 69%.
[19:25] <PiBot> Tue: High 68??F Low 54??F :Condition Showers
[19:25] <PiBot> Wed: High 65??F Low 52??F :Condition Chance of Showers
[19:25] <PiBot> Thu: High 74??F Low 52??F :Condition Chance of Showers
[19:25] <PiBot> Mon: High 79??F Low 61??F :Condition Thunderstorm
[19:25] <ukscone> !w 11220
[19:25] <PiBot> ukscone: in Brooklyn, NY on 2011-09-05 16:51:00 +0000 temperature 84??F 29??C, condition Overcast, Humidity: 56%.
[19:27] <mdavey> !w nn96qa
[19:27] <PiBot> mdavey: in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire on 2011-09-05 16:20:00 +0000 temperature 61??F 16??C, condition Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 68%.
[19:27] <mdavey> :D
[19:28] <mdavey> no wind speed, thou. So can't go sailing with PiBot ;)
[19:29] <DaQatz> lol
[19:31] * IT_Sean pokes PiBot
[19:34] <ukscone> mdavey: small world. i used to work in wellingborough in the late 80s
[19:35] <mdavey> it is indeed
[19:35] <ukscone> had a 6 month contract setting up telex on pc's and writing some telex handling s/w for an arabic publishers there
[19:35] <ukscone> 3 hour bus journey to get there though
[19:35] <mdavey> from...?
[19:36] <ukscone> oadby in leicestershire
[19:36] <ukscone> oadby to marketharbough bus from harbough to somewhere or other then onto wellingborough
[19:37] <ukscone> for some reason i seem to remember going through wellingborough on the train from leicester to london when i worked for citicorp too
[19:38] <ukscone> ah that was it it was oadby to market harbough to kettering to wellingborough
[19:39] <ukscone> does kettering still have the "theme park" ?
[19:44] <ukscone> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=80+briar+meads,+Oadby,+Leicester,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=52.588045,-1.077819&spn=0.008839,0.0156&sll=52.588045,-1.077819&sspn=0.008839,0.0156&vpsrc=0&gl=us&dirflg=w&t=h&z=16 that's where i lived from 72 to 89 (although i did spend a year in surbiton)
[19:48] <mdavey> yes it does :(
[19:49] <mdavey> There are some nice places in Northamtonshire thou.
[19:49] <ukscone> yup
[19:49] <ukscone> and not that far from rutland water
[19:50] <mdavey> gratham water also. And now Stanwick Lakes
[19:50] <ukscone> you obviously sail -- ever go down to virginia water or down to the solent?
[19:50] <mdavey> surbiton south london?
[19:51] <ukscone> mdavey: yup surbiton/kingston/eichmond..... that area
[19:51] <mdavey> nope, I don't sail really. Except last Saturday.
[19:51] <ukscone> lived int eh ymca for a year while working in kingston and reigate
[19:52] <mdavey> yea I have a friend from Surbiton/Worcester Park
[19:53] <ukscone> the ymca was actually quite nice. on site gym with recipricol privs at the kingston sports center -- played squash about 3 times a week and badminton and hockey at least once a week
[19:53] <ukscone> 100 quid a week wasn't too bad either considerign the rents down there
[19:55] <ukscone> that part of the country can be quite nice and some great hamfests and swap meets during the sumemr too -- picked up lots of nice computers there
[19:55] <ukscone> couple of grundy newbrains no jokes plese
[19:55] <ukscone> a zenith z100, lots of olivetti's
[19:59] <mdavey> http://www.cafepress.co.uk/+raspberry-pi+underwear-panties
[20:00] <IT_Sean> o.O
[20:00] <ukscone> :)
[20:01] <mdavey> http://www.cafepress.co.uk/+raspberry-pi+dog_tees
[20:07] <ukscone> what a good son i have -- just brought me back a sandwich from the corner deli
[20:08] <Thorn_> Truth is he bought two for himself and he didn't really want to give you the other :P
[20:08] <ukscone> he got one for himself too
[20:09] <ukscone> he even paid for it with HIS money
[20:09] <Thorn_> Hey remember that fiver you lost last week? That's where it went :P
[20:09] <ukscone> yeah he says all coin change from shopping is his
[20:10] <ukscone> he always asks for dollar coinns rather than paper bills
[20:10] * amandarn (~mandarine@unaffiliated/amandarn) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:11] <ukscone> http://her0inchic.tumblr.com/post/8822196864/a-boy-left-his-bike-chained-to-a-tree-when-he-went
[20:12] <Thorn_> wow
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[20:47] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:48] * mdavey (~chatzilla@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[21:18] <ukscone> ok got a squeeze rootfs installed for use by sb2 :)
[21:45] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:46] <ukscone> wb mdavey
[21:54] <mdavey> thanks! home now :)
[21:56] <ukscone> i have to fix the normal sb2 ldd problem but i think i have an emulated r-pi now (at least as far as i am able to do) have armel squeeze as my seed rootfs and apt is working on it :)
[21:56] <mdavey> hey, good news!
[21:57] <ukscone> still really don't have it so i can actually test yet as i need to futz with qemu and a few settings but i am reasonably confident that the binaries i build will actually run on the real raspi
[21:58] <ukscone> we should ask liz & eben to put an alphaboard on the net so we can try stuff on it :)
[21:58] <mdavey> that is an excellent idea!
[21:59] <mdavey> actually, why don't you PM Liz about that?
[21:59] <ukscone> they only have 49 alpha boards though and they are all out and about -- one died through static apparently
[22:00] <ukscone> maybe i'll just take an sd card (or usb flash drive) with me on the 17th and distract liz and quickly try stuff
[22:00] <mdavey> I don't think so. On Friday Eben said that they still had a few but nearly all had been modded with the hw fix.
[22:00] <ukscone> ah
[22:00] <ukscone> hw fix?
[22:02] <mdavey> yea - as expected they didn't work 100% correctly from factory so needed a couple of tweaks. There was a minor problem with the power circuitry.
[22:03] <ukscone> ah
[22:04] <ukscone> ok i'll pm liz and see if it's possible. it'll at least be a test of how unbrickable the hw is if nothing else
[22:05] <mdavey> not sure how well it'll cope with 1000 people logged in at once, but it'll at least be interesting ;)
[22:07] <ukscone> yep see if it'd melt
[22:08] <ukscone> if we can't break it then no young holigan at school will be able to
[22:08] <ukscone> ok pm'ed liz -- another strange request from a strange bloke but at least i am consistant
[22:10] <ukscone> what's the ncurses version of synaptic on debian? apptitude isn't it?
[22:11] <jbuck> yeah, aptitude
[22:11] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@2001:0:4137:9e76:28f8:26d4:b4ef:12b3) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[22:11] <ukscone> oh b***** the normal qemu problem
[22:12] <ukscone> have to do it manually not via aptitude
[22:15] <ukscone> ah good basic256 is in the squeeze armel repositories -- might want a rebuild but it won't need anything major doing to it
[22:16] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, are you going to write it all up?
[22:19] <ukscone> yup i have it done so now i need to repeat it and check it all still works and i'll write up the steps this time. basocally it's the same as on my blog with some changes because i built sb2 and qemu myself rather than pulled from the ubuntu repositories
[22:20] <ukscone> and i grabbed a premade squeeze rootfs and i want to build my own to be certain it is "correct"
[22:21] <ShiftPlusOne> yay
[22:21] <ukscone> then i need to get qemu working with the development seed rootfs for actually running stuff
[22:21] <ukscone> i.e. chroot not disk image
[22:24] <ukscone> great. i have an abcessed tooth and i just read the paper and found this story http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/09/05/2011-09-05_unemployed_man_with_no_health_insurance_dies_after_minor_tooth_infection_spreads.html
[22:26] <ShiftPlusOne> you've lived a long and full life
[22:27] <ukscone> yes and i'll leave you my sb2 instructions in my will
[22:28] <ShiftPlusOne> it's the least you can do
[22:49] <mdavey> lol
[22:53] <ReggieUK> that's terrible
[23:11] <mdavey> ukscone: so, any reply from Liz?
[23:13] <ukscone> mdavey: yes
[23:13] <ukscone> almost certainly no go
[23:13] <mdavey> :(
[23:14] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:16] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W393cGmPzFo
[23:19] * IT_Sean will be right back... rebooting following software update
[23:19] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: soffware updates)
[23:31] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:47] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi

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