#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-09-10

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:03] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has left #raspberrypi
[0:26] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] * IT_Sean beeps
[0:32] * DaQatz boops
[0:33] * IT_Sean boops
[0:43] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:47] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:57] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[1:23] * ReimuHakurei_ (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:24] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:53] <ukscone> evening all
[3:08] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad39.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[4:11] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, 'morning
[5:02] <DaQatz> beer
[5:05] <ShiftPlusOne> tea =(
[5:05] <DaQatz> Had the same reply in anotehr room
[5:05] <DaQatz> Well
[5:05] <DaQatz> They said green tea
[5:06] <DaQatz> I have alcoholic tea here anyway.
[5:06] <DaQatz> http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/180116-cha-hao-brewing-%28alcoholic-tea%29
[5:06] <ShiftPlusOne> in my mind I saw a cup of tea passed out in the gutter somewhere
[5:06] <ShiftPlusOne> 'alcoholic tea'
[5:06] <DaQatz> ykwm
[5:06] <DaQatz> ykwim*
[5:07] <ShiftPlusOne> smrglf
[5:08] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... interesting...
[5:09] <DaQatz> That's actually a repost of a guide I sent someone.
[5:10] <DaQatz> I have 5 gallons of hibiscus green, and 5 of champagne white bottled atm.
[5:10] <DaQatz> Not sure how much of the sweet black is left
[5:11] <ShiftPlusOne> reading throught it... might give it a go if I have whatever is needed
[5:11] <ShiftPlusOne> and I don't even drink, so who knows what I'll do with it... sell it and become rich perhaps =/
[5:12] <DaQatz> Lol
[5:15] <ShiftPlusOne> what do you mean by 'invert'?
[5:16] <DaQatz> Inverting sugar is converting from one type of sugar to another.
[5:16] <DaQatz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_sugar_syrup
[5:17] <DaQatz> It actually steals some of the water hydrogen from the water to make the new sugars
[5:19] <ShiftPlusOne> too complicated for me =/
[5:19] <DaQatz> Basically you mix white sugar,water, and an acid and boil it awhile.
[5:20] <DaQatz> And the white sugar turns into a different type of sugar.
[5:20] <DaQatz> That works better for fermenting, and is more shelf stable.
[5:21] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah I got that, I mean the whole process... when it comes to preparing any kind of food, I am clueless
[5:22] <DaQatz> Ah
[5:22] <ShiftPlusOne> bookmarked for later though
[5:41] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@203-214-38-201.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: 'night)
[9:53] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@203-214-38-201.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:42] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad39.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:54] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:28] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:32] <ahven> ello
[14:00] <IT_Sean> morning.
[14:00] <ukscone> morning all
[14:00] <IT_Sean> morning ukscone
[14:01] <ahven> heya
[14:07] <ahven> going for debian again for my building machine, even the alternative ubuntu install was too bloated for a server install
[14:09] <ukscone> IT_Sean: you have a car?
[14:11] <ukscone> as i need someone to go to the store on the orner for me. so you could drive up here and deliver the coffee and muffins easier than me getting dressed and walking 100 yards
[14:12] <IT_Sean> ukscone, yes, i do. And no, i'm not doing it
[14:13] <ukscone> guess i'll wake the kid up or train the cat then
[14:14] <ukscone> but i'm taking my life in my hands by waking the kid so when i'm dead you'll be sorry
[14:15] <ukscone> could always go to the kitchen and make coffee but that's like 20 feet away
[14:16] <IT_Sean> ukscone: http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2156/e28garage.jpg
[14:17] <ukscone> needs a wash. looks a bit dusty :)
[14:18] <ukscone> euro plates?
[14:20] <IT_Sean> Only on the front
[14:20] <IT_Sean> (with my state-issue tag numbers)
[14:21] <IT_Sean> and yes,she does need a wash. Badly.
[14:24] <ukscone> either that or just drive her to a flood prone area
[14:24] <ukscone> it's due to rain again today
[14:24] <IT_Sean> It's bright & sunny here
[14:25] <IT_Sean> Anywhoo, i have errands to run.
[14:25] <IT_Sean> I shall return later
[14:25] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off... ducking into town)
[15:08] <ReggieUK> hi all
[15:09] <ahven> hello
[15:09] <ReggieUK> I've got a question, nothing to do with pi but it is arm/cross compiling dev stuff
[15:10] <ReggieUK> for the leapfrog arm platform, we get a lot of libs supplied to us, so we don't have any control over how they've been compiled at all
[15:10] <ReggieUK> is there any way for me to find out information about how these libs were compiled so that we can compile our own versions?
[15:11] <ReggieUK> I'm not talking about any proprietary stuff, just standard things like uclibc, pthread, mudflap etc.
[15:11] <ahven> hmm, don't have a clue
[15:11] <ReggieUK> we have minimal tools on the target machine itself
[15:12] <ReggieUK> but we do have various toolchains
[15:31] <ukscone> what do you mean "how"? you mean with what options used with the configure script/makefile or just what's in there?
[15:31] <ukscone> and what libs are linked?
[15:49] <ahven> I have been wondering, do the usual rootfs'es provide /dev automatically or is that left to the kernel?
[15:51] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:52] <ukscone> depends
[15:52] <ukscone> udev or not
[15:53] <ahven> seems that debootstrap provides udev
[16:06] <ukscone> yup most if not all distro's now are udev
[16:06] <ukscone> only really old embedded systems don't use it
[16:07] <ukscone> probably because it takes ram and is slower than just having hardcoded nodes
[16:07] <ukscone> and if you have fixed hardware with no hotplugging ability why bother
[16:10] <ahven> yup
[16:14] * PaulW (~PaulW@CPE001310360dac-CM001e6b0f7310.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:16] <ahven> the system feels much more responsive with 512MB :P
[16:19] <ukscone> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2035796/Steve-Jobs-passed-away-CBS-network-makes-embarrassing-error-reporting-Apple-CEOs-death.html?ITO=1490
[16:21] <ahven> tweet first, check details later :P
[16:22] <ukscone> no it's tweet first, hack steve jobs cellphone, then check the details
[16:41] <ahven> argh
[16:44] <ahven> ok, usb1 doesn't fit anywhere today with these filesizes
[16:56] <ahven> so I need an USB2 pcmcia card, maybe will get lucky and get it nearby other than order from china
[17:01] * FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:02] <ukscone> usb2 that gives pcmcia or pcmcia that gives usb2?
[17:06] <ahven> have an old laptop, IBM T23 :)
[17:06] <ahven> currently my (xvid) video player :P
[17:07] <ahven> the USB1 speed to the external drive is ~9Mbit/s, so practically near the limit
[17:07] <ahven> but it takes hell of a time copying
[17:10] <ahven> If a new cpu fan dropped it would be very silent, replaced the ide drive with a CF media
[17:11] <ukscone> yup before she destoryed with by giving it a drink of pepsi my wifes t20 was slooooooow on use and i needed for hacking vonage vphones as it was the only computer with xp on it in the house
[17:11] <ahven> I even have 512MB in there :P
[17:11] <ahven> been serving me for years, they do not make laptops like this anymore
[17:16] <ukscone> yup
[17:17] <ukscone> they made great weapons for hitting people over the head with
[17:17] <ukscone> left a nasty scalp wound
[17:24] <ahven> I can imagine :)
[17:38] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:37] <ahven> seems that installing the rootfs with qemu seems the most reasonable thing for getting a starting point :P
[18:54] <ReggieUK> ukscone, with regard to my earlier question, I'm really trying to find out how the libs were configured for compiling, I don't expect there to be something that will tell me -x -y -z config options were used but at least hints at how it might've been done
[18:54] <ReggieUK> I'm not even sure what to use as search terms in google (I have looked this morning)
[19:06] <ukscone> yup i don't know of a way without taking a hammer to the knees of the builder of the package although you can guess by using ldd and objdump and other utils like that
[19:15] <ahven> that can help you identify the obvious but not how these package have been compiled
[19:32] <ukscone> yup but it can help on what isn't compiled with because of undefined references and stuff like that -- it won't help with most stuff but you can see if a few things aren't used. i.e. if qemu is compiled without curl then if you don't see any curl calls then you know no curl
[20:03] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:24] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:24] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:24] <ukscone> ugh 6 hours it's going to take to upload
[20:25] <ukscone> uploading a vm with all the scratchbox2/qemu/codesourcery...... installed and configured
[20:26] <ukscone> correction 7 hours
[20:26] <ahven> :)
[20:26] <ukscone> corrections 6h47m
[20:26] <ukscone> correction 7h23m
[20:26] <ukscone> :)
[20:37] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[20:55] <ahven> I really need a better platform for dedicated builds
[20:55] <ahven> cel 2.4 with 128 L2 cache is a *bit* slow
[20:57] * ReimuHakurei_ (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Quit: And therefore, dye this sky red. The time has come again for my body to only go forward / Even the 'people' who pass by and the 'things' which become lost in confusion / Will one day be like vanished memories)
[20:58] <ukscone> yup probably although i've had slower
[20:59] <ukscone> i did use a p4 for cross compiling a couple of years ago openembedded too 2 days to build a rootfs
[20:59] <ShiftPlusOne> what did I miss?
[20:59] <ahven> just some rants
[20:59] <ahven> nothing special :)
[21:00] <ShiftPlusOne> =( I love rants!
[21:01] <ukscone> i prefer twiglets or barley sugar
[21:01] <ahven> I have 3 gig p4 cpu but I have to find a suitable motherboard for it first, eg. by not paying ofcourse :P
[21:01] <ukscone> rants don't have much meat on them. they are all bones and gristle
[21:01] <ukscone> ahven: a garbage night special?
[21:02] <ukscone> ugh still 7 hours to completion of the upload
[21:02] <ahven> well, in my line of work people leave my company sometimes pretty working, but clearly out of date, hardware
[21:02] <ukscone> i need a better up pipe
[21:02] <ahven> since it is cheaper to buy newer, even used
[21:02] <ukscone> i wander the streets on garbage night. only bought one computer since 1986
[21:03] <ahven> 99% of people don't do nothing with mainboards what only have blown caps
[21:05] <ShiftPlusOne> damn rainy outside
[21:05] <ShiftPlusOne> !w forecast melbourne
[21:05] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne: in Melbourne, VIC on 2011-09-11 09:30:00 +0000 temperature 46??F 8??C, condition Cloudy, Humidity: 87%.
[21:05] <PiBot> Mon: High 63??F Low 46??F :Condition Partly Sunny
[21:05] <PiBot> Tue: High 68??F Low 54??F :Condition Partly Sunny
[21:05] <PiBot> Wed: High 64??F Low 43??F :Condition Chance of Rain
[21:05] <PiBot> Sun: High 61??F Low 46??F :Condition Chance of Rain
[21:05] <ShiftPlusOne> ?F!? ?F!?!?!?
[21:05] <ShiftPlusOne> >=/
[21:05] <ukscone> !w 11220
[21:05] <PiBot> ukscone: in Brooklyn, NY on 2011-09-10 17:51:00 +0000 temperature 78??F 26??C, condition Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 52%.
[21:06] <ukscone> !w nepal
[21:06] <PiBot> ukscone: in nepal on 1970-01-01 00:00:00 +0000 temperature ??F ??C, condition , Humidity: 0%.
[21:06] <ukscone> !w leicester
[21:06] <PiBot> ukscone: in Leicester, Leicester on 2011-09-10 18:20:00 +0000 temperature 63??F 17??C, condition Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 82%.
[21:06] <ShiftPlusOne> 1970?
[21:06] <ShiftPlusOne> !w walrus
[21:06] <PiBot> Not found.
[21:06] <ukscone> wow it's humid in leicester
[21:07] <ukscone> !w southend
[21:07] <PiBot> ukscone: in Southend-on-Sea, Southend-on-Sea on 2011-09-10 18:20:00 +0000 temperature 64??F 18??C, condition Cloudy, Humidity: 88%.
[21:07] <ahven> !w estonia
[21:07] <PiBot> ahven: in estonia on 2011-09-10 18:20:00 +0000 temperature 54??F 12??C, condition Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 94%.
[21:07] <ShiftPlusOne> more humid in melbourne apparently
[21:07] <ukscone> !w surbiton
[21:07] <PiBot> ukscone: in Surbiton, Greater London on 2011-09-10 18:20:00 +0000 temperature 66??F 19??C, condition Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 73%.
[21:07] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIsT8D1TlPw
[21:07] <ukscone> !w stornoway
[21:07] <PiBot> ukscone: in stornoway on 2011-09-10 18:20:00 +0000 temperature 59??F 15??C, condition Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 100%.
[21:07] <ukscone> 100% humidity but it's not raining?????
[21:08] <FireFly> !w Stockholm
[21:08] <PiBot> FireFly: in stockholm on 2011-09-10 18:20:00 +0000 temperature 54??F 12??C, condition Clear, Humidity: 88%.
[21:10] <ahven> sensor is dipped in a glass :)
[21:10] <ShiftPlusOne> No wonder they didn't let me enter Nepal, they're hiding the fact it's still 1970 there.
[21:13] <ahven> I can install stock debian in qemu 2 times in my main machine while my celeron is still recompiling the kernel :)
[21:13] <ShiftPlusOne> then install gentoo in qemu
[21:13] <ShiftPlusOne> from scratch
[21:13] <ShiftPlusOne> without the stage3 tarball
[21:17] <ahven> making a gentoo rootfs should be interesting, once the fine details of the enviroment have been announced
[21:17] <ahven> I haven't compiled gentoo before btw :)
[21:18] <ahven> just have heard the usual ramblings, only few days to go!
[21:21] <ShiftPlusOne> you don't compile gentoo, gentoo compiles you
[21:26] <ukscone> ahven: lets have a race. my upload vs your gentoo compile
[21:27] <ShiftPlusOne> lol, the gentoo compile would take a few days at least
[21:27] <ukscone> noone ever said i wasn't upto fixing a race :)
[21:28] <ahven> hehe
[21:28] <ShiftPlusOne> well that's assumed
[21:28] <ShiftPlusOne> You can't have a race without... fixing of various kinds.
[21:28] <ukscone> my wife accuses me of cheating at scrabble. it's not my fault i have a good vocabulary for invented words
[21:29] <ShiftPlusOne> ah man... I am too tired to be on IRC and should shut up. Just gave a lift to a hitchhiker (it was pouring rain, 2am and he was drunk) On the way back I got turned around somehow and ended up going 1 hour in the wrong direction (yay).
[21:30] <ukscone> should have just run him over instead of giving him a lift
[21:30] <ukscone> it's 10 points for a drunk hitchhiker
[21:30] <ukscone> 15 if you can get him to do a full revolution when you hit him
[21:31] <ShiftPlusOne> unfortunately I don't murder people anymore
[21:33] <ShiftPlusOne> try not to, anyway
[21:33] <ukscone> yes it's best to limit yoursel;f to one or two a decade or the police will start to notice
[21:33] <ShiftPlusOne> exactly
[21:35] <ahven> nice, all the logs are in tmpfs now
[21:35] <ahven> less CF wearing
[21:36] <ShiftPlusOne> I keep all my logs in /dev/null for safe keeping
[21:37] <ukscone> what a coincidence that's where i send all my incoming email
[21:37] <ShiftPlusOne> and my outgoing... for some reason
[21:38] <ukscone> well it's torchwood, dr who and strictly come dancing time
[21:38] <ukscone> qi tomorrow
[21:38] <ShiftPlusOne> 'night
[21:38] <ahven> cya
[21:38] <ukscone> i'll be back in about 3 hours
[21:39] * ukscone is now known as ukscone_afk
[21:43] <ahven> hmm, ShiftPlusOne your rootfs's didn't need tmpfs?
[21:43] <ahven> udev requires tmpfs support, not started. ... failed!
[21:44] <ahven> trying again with those selected
[21:44] <ShiftPlusOne> not that I am aware of
[21:44] <ShiftPlusOne> I've only tried aboriginal, gentoo and fedora though.... but they all work fine with the kernel config I've got.
[21:56] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:11] <ShiftPlusOne> quick someone... post inappropriate things on the forum so that I can modinate!
[22:15] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:17] <ahven> like "Broadcom is baaad by not open sourcing everything!" ? :P
[22:18] <ahven> that pixeltricks made a nice post
[22:18] <ShiftPlusOne> what post?
[22:18] <ahven> http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=43&mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=36.16
[22:18] <ahven> quite middle
[22:19] <ShiftPlusOne> ah yeah
[22:31] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: in case of debian, devtmpfs was needed in kernel
[22:31] <ahven> udev started now
[22:31] <ahven> Linux raspi 3.1.0-rc5 #2 Sat Sep 10 23:27:59 EEST 2011 armv6l GNU/Linux
[22:32] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, yeah, I keep telling people to enable all the /dev options under general device settings, but I haven't gotted around to actually adding it to the springnotes page
[22:32] <ahven> oh
[22:44] <ahven> but this seems the most easyest way to get a rootfs working, when you want just a foundation
[22:45] <ShiftPlusOne> I'd say aboriginal is... download and run.
[22:45] <ShiftPlusOne> ew... is Windows 8 meant to be for PCs!? >=/
[22:46] <ShiftPlusOne> Why would anyone turn their PC into a mobile phone without the mobile... or phone.
[22:47] <dD0T> You can still have the old desktop as an "app" according to MS....
[22:47] <ShiftPlusOne> D=
[22:47] <dD0T> no clue who would use that metro stuff though. Unless you have a touch display it makes no sense whatsoever
[22:48] <dD0T> but maybe normal consumers like it......
[22:48] <ShiftPlusOne> I was watching the "fast bootup" video... I lol'd when I saw what it actually loaded.
[22:49] <ShiftPlusOne> Ah well, no point judging it before it's out.
[22:49] <dD0T> ++ to that
[22:50] <dD0T> Worst case: I'll stay with 7 for another iteration. Big deal. 7 is fine (though I doubt it'll be necesarry to skip 8)
[22:50] <ShiftPlusOne> I've been using 7 and yeah, it's "good enough".
[22:51] <ShiftPlusOne> Though I've recently installed OpenSUSE and am wondering why I put up with "good enough" for so long.
[22:52] <dD0T> Imho linux desktops are a disaster...I'd rather use XP
[22:52] <ShiftPlusOne> How so?
[22:52] <ShiftPlusOne> I am not asking to argue, I am actually interested in why people don't like linux desktops.
[22:52] <dD0T> Constant breakage. Like there's not Q&A or anything.
[22:52] <dD0T> Regressionfest ;-)
[22:54] <dD0T> For example a lot of distros had Pulseaudio in their stable releases before it was ready and it just broke audio.
[22:54] <dD0T> Same with compositing
[22:54] <ShiftPlusOne> Well you've got to choose the right distro.
[22:55] <dD0T> Haha ;-) Doesn't matter which one you choose. I try most of the popular ones regularily
[22:56] <ReggieUK> in what way are they a disaster? I haven't seen the issue myself
[22:56] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah neither, but I said I wouldn't argue.
[22:56] <ReggieUK> I'm not arguing either, just trying to get some clarity on what represents a disaster
[22:57] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@adsl-75-16-237-76.dsl.kntpin.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:57] <dD0T> ACPI on notebooks == roulette. compositing/3d working == roulette.
[22:57] <ReggieUK> I've not had issues myself, everything has installed, no issues with audio
[22:57] <ReggieUK> to be fair, 3d is crappy on my windows install on my laptop
[22:57] <dD0T> Well PA works _now_. It didn't when it hit the stable distros
[22:58] <ReggieUK> but that's not the distros fault and I'm guessing it's a single or small case scenario (unless you're testing lots of laptops)
[22:58] <dD0T> ReggieUK: Well. Win 7 with aero and compositing runs on pretty much anything. KWin/metacity/... um....well...not so good.
[22:59] <ReggieUK> win7 aero, 3d in general is an ass on my laptop
[22:59] <ShiftPlusOne> I was always fixing my mom's computer and showing her how to do things. I've installed Ubuntu on her computer a few weeks ago and she seI am always stuck fixing my mum's computer or showing herI am always stuck fixing my mum's computer or showing her how to do stuff. I've installed Ubuntu and she seems to 'get it' naturally, so I how to do stuff. I've installed Ubuntu and she seems to 'get it' naturally, so Iems to be getting the
[22:59] <ShiftPlusOne> hang of it without me having to be around all the time. So it passed the 'newb friendly' and 'works like you expect it to' test for me. =)
[22:59] <dD0T> ReggieUK: You have to see. As a user I don't care about who's fault it is. I care about whether it works and how much time I spend to fix it
[22:59] <ReggieUK> 2.5gb ram, dual core turion processor
[23:00] <ReggieUK> but you sound like more than a casual user, you sound like someone who knows what they're doing
[23:00] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... well that text got chopped up
[23:00] <dD0T> I'm not exactly casual. No ;-)
[23:01] <ShiftPlusOne> I blame linux and middle button being 'paste'
[23:01] <dD0T> My current stance is: Linux is great for servers and good platform for development (not for shipping mind you). But on the desktop it's not for me.
[23:01] <ReggieUK> then again, I don't use linux like that
[23:01] <dD0T> ShiftPlusOne: X11 ;-)
[23:01] <ReggieUK> I use linux for arm dev
[23:01] <ReggieUK> so as long as I can use a simple text editor or 2 and a compiler I'm satisfied
[23:01] <ReggieUK> and grep
[23:02] <dD0T> ReggieUK: ;-) Can't do without those on windows either.
[23:02] <ReggieUK> I can :D
[23:02] <dD0T> ReggieUK: Though I'm more of an IDE gui
[23:02] <ReggieUK> cos I do my work in linux
[23:02] <ShiftPlusOne> To each his own... like I said, switching back to linux was a relief for me. I can understand that for some people Windows might be better, but saying "Linux on desktops sucks" as an objective statement is a bit unfair, I think.
[23:02] <ReggieUK> indeed and that's what I was trying to get at
[23:02] <ShiftPlusOne> IDE gui? I see what you did there.
[23:03] <ReggieUK> I use gui stuff in windows and cli in linux
[23:03] <dD0T> ShiftPlusOne: ^^ it still sounds similar to what I intended to write ;-)
[23:03] <ReggieUK> windows would've been a pain in the arse for arm dev I think
[23:03] <ahven> I dislike Unity on Ubuntu but I can see that it can be really simple for people who want it just to "click and work"
[23:04] <ShiftPlusOne> ew... Unity.
[23:04] <ShiftPlusOne> I disable that ASAP.
[23:04] <ReggieUK> what is unity?
[23:05] <ShiftPlusOne> Unity is Ubuntu's new interface
[23:05] <ahven> I had to install it one of the clients PC, the sad thing is that it was an older Atom CPU also
[23:05] <ShiftPlusOne> mac-like toolbar
[23:05] <ShiftPlusOne> but on the side
[23:05] <dD0T> ahven: There's one thing I really don't like about Unity and Gnome3 (apart from the whole: Let's break everything again attidue). Zero discoverability. You have to get a cheatsheet to find out about the shortcuts and everything is just hidden somewhere without any indicators....
[23:06] <ahven> dD0T: exactly
[23:06] <ahven> took me a minute to find the way to launch a console..
[23:06] <ShiftPlusOne> what's wrong with Gnome3 anyway? Everyone complains about it, but I don't see it.
[23:06] <ahven> haven't used gnome3, I think
[23:06] <ShiftPlusOne> still has the same look and feel
[23:06] <ShiftPlusOne> or maybe I haven't used it either
[23:07] <ShiftPlusOne> what's Ubuntu's default version of gnome?
[23:07] <dD0T> ShiftPlusOne: Ubuntu switched to unity ;-)
[23:07] <dD0T> ShiftPlusOne: If you see something resembling gnome you are in fallback mode because your graphics card doesn't to compositing
[23:08] <ShiftPlusOne> dD0T, I already said I disable it straight away
[23:08] <dD0T> (given that you run 11.04)
[23:08] <ShiftPlusOne> manually
[23:08] <dD0T> Understandable ;-)
[23:08] <ShiftPlusOne> they didn't really 'switch' they just made unity default
[23:08] <dD0T> Unfortunately fallback != gnome :-( Some stuff is just gone
[23:09] <ShiftPlusOne> but then again, I am currently using KDE which I think is more hated than gnome3 anyway.
[23:10] <dD0T> ShiftPlusOne: I actually like kde because I can easily configure aero snap like keys there ;-) ahaha (though unity and gnome 3 now also have those I guess)
[23:10] <dD0T> (well easily might be the wrong word but I don't have to write a script like in gnome2....)
[23:17] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@203-214-38-201.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: 'night)
[23:21] <ahven> I'm a slave to the Windows style gui for the most of the part
[23:21] <ahven> if the GUI presented in W95 is theirs :P
[23:25] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

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