#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2011-09-21

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:13] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:39] <ShiftPlusOne> so..... anyone like stuff?
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[0:42] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, me neither. >.>
[0:51] <ReggieUK> part one of my get a pi for my birthday has been executed
[0:51] <ReggieUK> what kind of stuff ShiftPlusOne
[1:01] <ShiftPlusOne> sorry was making tea. and yeah nvrm that, just bored, tired and frustrated with qemu.
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[2:05] <vgrade> evening
[2:07] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56a6.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[2:11] <vgrade> thanks to all who sorted out a device for the MeeGo crowd
[2:12] <vgrade> can you point me to your libEGL.so and libGLESv2 files?
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[2:25] <_Ross> vgrade - what do you mean 'point you at'?
[2:35] <_Ross> There is a chance that any SW tree right now has a single libkhronos.so file exporting all the EGL, GL and VG symbols
[2:56] <ukscone> ok who broke the forums?
[3:00] <IT_Sean> wasn't me
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[4:20] <mdavey> ukscone: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=494.2#postid-7756
[4:23] <mdavey> What I want to know is, will the pastry blob be Open Source or not? I have real concerns about the viability of a pie that uses close sourced pastry. I think I might not eat it if the pastry is closed source.
[4:28] <ukscone> mdavey: of course it's open source
[4:28] <ukscone> 100g (4oz) flour
[4:28] <ukscone> 25g (1oz) butter
[4:28] <ukscone> 25g (10z) lard
[4:28] <ukscone> pinch of salt
[4:28] <ukscone> water to form dough
[4:28] <ukscone> put butter and lard into the flour and crumb
[4:28] <ukscone> add salt
[4:29] <ukscone> then add water few drops at a time, mix until a dough forms
[4:29] <ukscone> rollout and then either put in a pie dish and bake blind
[4:29] <ukscone> or cover with jam and make a jam roly poly
[4:29] <ukscone> and serve with birds custard\
[4:31] <mdavey> Ah, you say that. But is the butter, lard and Bird's custard open source?
[4:31] <ukscone> butter is, lard is birds custard probably isn't but you can always make custard from scratch
[4:32] <ukscone> as long as you don't fall foul of EU rules on custard tarts and pasturization
[4:33] <ukscone> lard is easy, just make a nice roast beef and collecting the dripping and ourning you won't be eating bread and dripping use the fat that collects as your lard
[4:33] <mdavey> What about the compiler tools? Can I get the source to the scales for instance?
[4:33] <ukscone> for butter just find a cow and shake it for several hours
[4:33] <mdavey> :D
[4:34] <ukscone> well you could go to france and get hold of the standard kilogram and work from that
[4:34] <ukscone> although we should be using good old pounds and ounces none of this new fangled foreigh muck when it comes to weights and measures
[4:36] <ukscone> ugh busy day tomorrow. got to take wife to work, then come home and do 6 months work in 6 hours, then get spuced up to go out to dinner and hand over an sd card with 6 months (more liek 60 minutes) on it
[4:37] <ukscone> and now wife has said i have to do laundry too
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[9:55] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[9:55] <PiBot> ukscone| hand over the twiglets
[9:55] -tomaw- [Global Notice] Sorry for the outage there, it seems one of our hubs had some issue. We've re-routed around it for now.
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[9:55] * Disconnected.
[9:55] -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname...
[9:55] -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident
[9:55] -barjavel.freenode.net- *** No Ident response
[9:55] -barjavel.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname
[9:55] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[15:48] -card.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname...
[15:48] -card.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident
[15:48] -card.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname
[15:48] -card.freenode.net- *** No Ident response
[15:48] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
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[15:48] * Topic is 'currently "unofficial" discussion channel for the RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ the $25 computer -- FAQs: http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=8 -- Wiki & Specs: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard -- logs available at http://srv.datagutt1.com/'
[15:48] * Set by ukscone!~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com on Sun Aug 28 17:07:01 CEST 2011
[15:48] -NickServ- You are now identified for DataBot.
[15:50] <ukscone1> morning acfrazier obviously you got home safely from maker faire. were you the one who took the 3rd raspi alphaboard?
[15:50] <acfrazier> there was a 3rd?
[15:50] <ukscone1> :)
[15:51] <acfrazier> if so, mind blown
[15:51] <ukscone1> yes hidden in the botton of liz's handbag along with the holy grain and the ark of the covenant
[15:51] <acfrazier> and actually, I realized even if I had taken one of them it's rather useless with no firmware blob for the GPU.
[15:51] <ukscone1> yeah you'd have needed the sd card too
[15:51] <acfrazier> right
[15:52] <ukscone1> although i had given them an sd card earlier in the day they might have forgotten about so would dtill have thought they had the same number
[15:52] <ShiftPlusOne> datagutt, add a reminder alarm to your bot... I'd find that very handy.
[15:52] <acfrazier> I was not aware there was a third one
[15:52] <acfrazier> and in watching the handbag I didn't see anyone try to retrieve items from it other than Liz
[15:53] <acfrazier> and if you are messing with me, I hate you.
[15:54] <acfrazier> mm, now I see you were
[15:54] <ukscone1> acfrazier: of course i am
[15:54] <ukscone1> :)
[15:55] <ukscone1> as far as i know they have 40 out in the world with various dev's 8 back in cambridge and 2 with them in the states
[15:55] <acfrazier> Looks like the comment thread on that video post has turned into an argument over the open-sourceness of the GPU
[15:55] <acfrazier> shame
[15:55] <ukscone1> yes
[15:56] <vgrade> link?
[15:56] <acfrazier> I was quite ecstatic when I saw they mentioned me though
[15:56] <acfrazier> http://www.raspberrypi.org/2011/09/video-from-maker-faire/#comments
[15:56] <vgrade> thanks
[15:56] <ahven> everyone is a GPU hacker nowadays, it seems :P
[15:56] <acfrazier> for what it's worth, on this network I am also in #geekhack, which is a channel for the forum of keyboard enthusiasts, along with #keyboardscience, which is my keyboard enthusiast forum
[15:57] <ukscone1> even thee commodore 64 and bbc had closed parts
[15:57] <ukscone1> i don't think commodore gave source and schematics to the sid chip at the time
[15:57] * ahven (~ahven@jutukas.saarlane.ee) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:58] <ukscone1> and the same with the beeb. someof the specialised chips were closed. and really for what they want to do with the raspi really does it really matter
[15:58] <ukscone1> yes for hackers it'd be nice but hackers aren't their tsrget
[15:58] <acfrazier> As I said at the Faire: "If there is something to complain about, people will complain about it."
[15:58] <ukscone1> acfrazier: yeah. the price of a bottle of water or lemonade was disgusting
[15:59] <ukscone1> 3 bucks for a 12 oz water
[15:59] <ukscone1> and 5 for a pint of lemonade and it was an american pint too so shortchanged 4 fluid ounces
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[15:59] <ukscone1> if they have it in the same place next year the kid and i are packing a picnic hamper
[16:00] <acfrazier> agreed
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[16:00] <acfrazier> They wanted $2 for a can of soda.
[16:00] <acfrazier> a CAN (12oz) of soda.
[16:00] <acfrazier> .75 I can see, but $2?
[16:01] <atts> maker faire?
[16:01] <ukscone1> it cost the kid and 1 $19 for a burger, hotdog, 2 orders of fries and 2 cans of soda
[16:01] <ukscone1> i nearly finted
[16:02] <ukscone1> fainted even
[16:02] <acfrazier> I can only imagine what my father paid, then
[16:02] <ukscone1> just realised that we missed alot of stuff. didn't find one of the areas we wanted to check out
[16:02] <acfrazier> I was primarily interested in the Raspberry Pi. I did no further research into it, although my dad sort of did the legwork for me.
[16:02] <acfrazier> He entered a raffle to win a 3D printer
[16:02] <ukscone1> acfrazier: if we hadn't eaten we could have another raspi
[16:03] <acfrazier> that'd be sweet if we won.
[16:03] <ukscone1> yup we entered that one too and the ipad2 draw and a few others
[16:04] <acfrazier> I was at first a bit puzzled why they chose to use A instead of my full first name, but after mulling it over I can sort of understand why
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[16:13] <ukscone1> acfrazier: yep, they use the nick's if they can otherwise just an initial if people have used "real" names
[16:14] <acfrazier> my online persona is associated with my real name, generally acfrazier is ubiquitous when it comes to me online
[16:14] <acfrazier> I should change that, but it would create too many headaches for me.
[16:16] <ukscone1> and it could also mean anonymous coward frazier used as a handle
[16:16] <ukscone1> i.e. meaningless
[16:21] <acfrazier> true
[16:21] <acfrazier> but if you search acfrazier
[16:22] <acfrazier> the top 6 results are all related to me.
[16:22] <ukscone1> :)
[16:22] <ukscone1> i stopped using ukscone for about 9 years so all the results are old
[16:22] <acfrazier> in fact, if you exclude the 7th result, the rest of the ones on the first page are related
[16:22] <acfrazier> albeit some of them are dated.
[16:23] <acfrazier> mostly all related to my user profile
[16:23] <acfrazier> on various forums
[16:23] <ukscone1> i have several nicks i use so stuff is seperated and isolated
[16:23] <acfrazier> the weird thing is
[16:23] <ukscone1> but a few are linked by avatars
[16:23] <acfrazier> you cannot derive that I am Austen Frazier from my handle unless you dig really deep
[16:24] <acfrazier> though, I made it a habit since 2004 or so to stop posting my real name along with my handle in most places
[16:24] <acfrazier> so perhaps that's why
[16:25] <acfrazier> I could very easily drop off the face of the planet if I contacted everyone on the first 3-4 pages of google results and have them remove my content.
[16:25] <ukscone1> :)
[16:26] <ukscone1> mompls
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[16:30] <ShiftPlusOne> why would qemu lag without using 100% of any CPU cores? =/
[16:31] <ahven> simulates the real enviroment? :)
[16:31] <ShiftPlusOne> huh?
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[16:32] <acfrazier> ShiftPlusOne, he was being sarcastic.
[16:33] <ShiftPlusOne> lol, sorry, a bit slow today
[16:33] <ahven> ;)
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[16:52] <ShiftPlusOne> qemu-system-arm->dosbox->win3.1 works, but it slow as hell
[16:52] <ShiftPlusOne> no lag when playing summvm games though...haven't tried Full Throttle yet though, that might lag a little
[16:59] <ShiftPlusOne> leisure suite larry seems to work in dosbox. prince of persia is pretty laggy
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[17:19] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: through LXDE or FB?
[17:20] <ahven> regarding that keyboard mess
[17:20] <ShiftPlusOne> X11
[17:20] <ShiftPlusOne> couldn't find any info on the keyboard thing
[17:20] <ShiftPlusOne> also, the mouse seems to jump around randomly is dosbox and scummvm
[17:21] <ahven> using the FB?
[17:21] <ahven> when*
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[17:33] <ShiftPlusOne> lxde
[17:37] <ahven> ok
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[17:44] <acfrazier> I dunno how many of you care about human rights and stuff, but I'm spreading the word any way I can: http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/cases/usa-troy-davis
[17:44] <acfrazier> This man is going to be executed at 7PM EDT today for a crime he didn't commit.
[17:44] <acfrazier> If you send an email, takes about 5 seconds of your time, could save this man's life.
[17:47] <ShiftPlusOne> I find it a bit strange that it's such a big deal on this 1 particular case. So many innocent people have been, and will be executed in the future, yet this one case is a 'big deal'. I don't mean to say that in a detached way, I certainly understand the outrage. But where's that outrage with the legal system in general?
[17:47] <ShiftPlusOne> anyway, where do I send the email?
[17:48] <acfrazier> one sec
[17:48] <acfrazier> I have a link somewhere
[17:48] <acfrazier> http://t.co/GQyNcxI9
[17:49] <acfrazier> the reason why it's a big deal is because the only reason they are proceeding with it is because of his race.
[17:49] <acfrazier> if he were white, it would have been called off long ago
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[17:51] * steveo (~steveo@pergola.imt.uwm.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:52] <DaQatz> !w
[17:52] <PiBot> DaQatz: in Berwick, ME on Wed Sep 21 19:51:00 2011. Temp 68??F. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 70%. Later 72??F - 58??F. Condition: Clear
[17:52] <PiBot> Thu: High 74??F Low 59??F :Condition Showers
[17:52] <PiBot> Fri: High 70??F Low 59??F :Condition Showers
[17:52] <PiBot> Sat: High 76??F Low 56??F :Condition Thunderstorm
[17:52] <ShiftPlusOne> in the context of my question, that's silly. So if he was white, possibly innocent and to be executed (as is the case sometimes), then that's not a big deal because he's not black O_o
[17:53] <acfrazier> I don't understand either
[17:54] * steveo (~steveo@pergola.imt.uwm.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:00] <atts> !w
[18:00] <PiBot> Not found.
[18:00] <atts> PiBot, you are no longer my friend
[18:02] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[18:05] <WASD_> !w narnia
[18:05] <PiBot> Not found.
[18:10] * ahven (~ahven@jutukas.saarlane.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:12] <ShiftPlusOne> ahven, scummvm, using FB, maps the keyboard properly, so it's just a dosbox thing
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[18:13] * ReimuHakurei (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:41] <ahven> ok
[18:56] * diggy (~UNIX@78-199-47.adsl.cyta.gr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[19:10] <ShiftPlusOne> son of a.....
[19:11] <ShiftPlusOne> just checked my /var/log/messages
[19:11] <ShiftPlusOne> it's flooded with ssh login attempts from 173.246.100.34 >=/
[19:14] <ukscone1> ugh now i remember how much i hate buildroot
[19:15] <ukscone1> it's soooooo much typing to add new packages even if you copy from another packages directory
[19:15] <ukscone1> and half the time it doesn't work
[19:15] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, I gave up on it
[19:17] <ukscone1> i need to use it for this device as the person who built the base i am using used it
[19:19] <ukscone1> i need to add SFont, a newer version of libconfig and some smaller bits and bobs -- so far i have taken 2 hours and 3 cups of coffee and 30 pages of the book i am currently reading
[19:20] <ukscone1> and done the washing up too i just can't face it
[19:20] <ukscone1> have to rebuild u-boot too
[19:45] <ShiftPlusOne> woo.... sound output!
[19:45] <ShiftPlusOne> almost made my eardrums bleed, but it works
[19:58] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:06] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:08] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:08] <ukscone1> ok that was a braindead idiot error that io have just sepnt 30mins trying to track down
[21:09] <traeak> i bet that never happened b4 in the history of programming :-p
[21:09] <ukscone1> left a /mnt/sd0/config in a path on a version that isn't on an sd card
[21:09] <ukscone1> teach me to hardcode paths
[21:11] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[21:12] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has left #raspberrypi
[21:12] <ukscone1> now thee next bug to fix -- i don't have a silver key on this keyboard
[21:13] <ukscone1> so it just sits there :)
[21:15] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mih209.mih.bellacenter.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:34] <mdavey> evening some
[21:34] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning you
[21:35] <mdavey> BTW, any interest in an unofficial raspberry pi meetup in Cambridge, UK?
[21:35] <ukscone1> we need a generic "bah humbug" for the non-christmas season
[21:35] <ukscone1> yes if you arrange for a little ice age and for the atlantic to freeze so i can drive across
[21:36] <ShiftPlusOne> fly me out there and I am in.
[21:37] <ahven> ice age sounds good to me
[21:38] <ReggieUK> if you move cambridge to east sussex, I'd be up for a meet
[21:38] <ShiftPlusOne> Well if everyone is going for the ice age thing, then I am fine with that too, I guess. I'll make a road trip of it... just need to get my bike serviced.
[21:39] <Thorn_> http://i.imgur.com/PpYrt.jpg the raspberry pi should compare right?
[21:39] <ReggieUK> Thorn_, totally
[21:39] <ReggieUK> pi has better gpu and doesn't need blue lights to impress anyone
[21:40] <ShiftPlusOne> no, you need to cluster a few pi's together
[21:40] <Thorn_> dude
[21:40] <Thorn_> the first thing i'm going to do with a pi is strap as many led's as possible to the gpio's :P
[21:41] <ReggieUK> that'll be 16 unless you multiplex then won't it?
[21:41] <ahven> yeah, blink the leds!
[21:41] <Thorn_> ReggieUK: yeah, but they all need an individual use :P
[21:41] <DaQatz> Blink all the LEDS!
[21:43] <traeak> hmm
[21:43] <traeak> i guess you could use an r-pi to drive a laser beam that's attached to a shark's head
[21:45] <ReggieUK> I think they should strap a pi to mooncat
[21:45] <ReggieUK> for telemetry data etc.
[21:47] <mdavey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmgf60CI_ks
[21:47] <traeak> sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads
[21:47] <mdavey> 4th quarter, right?
[21:48] <ShiftPlusOne> mdavey, last time I saw that video, I fell off my dinosaur!
[21:49] <ukscone1> ok i give up
[21:49] <ukscone1> i'll just use prboom as a demo that i have the device workign with sdl rather than the app
[21:50] <ukscone1> but i will have to work like a wotsit for the next few days
[21:50] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone1, I want your job =/
[21:50] <ukscone1> ShiftPlusOne: no you don't
[21:50] <ukscone1> it doesn't pay well and it doesn't pay often
[21:50] <ShiftPlusOne> oh I do.... sounds like the sort of thing I'd do in my free time anyway.
[21:50] <ukscone1> well it does pay well just not often enough
[21:51] <ukscone1> ShiftPlusOne: and you'll need to take into account that it'll drive you nuts within 48 hours
[21:51] <ukscone1> i need a nice calm consulting job again. not had one of those in yonks
[21:52] <ShiftPlusOne> I drive myself nuts with pretty much everything I do anyway, so it sounds right up my alley. So how about I take over your job and you take over mine? (I don't do anything)
[21:53] <ukscone1> you'll have to cook and clean too if you take mine
[21:53] <ShiftPlusOne> oh, that's a deal breaker, I am useless there.
[21:56] <mdavey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnCVOIqL50A
[21:57] <mdavey> ^^ 1332 channels.
[22:33] <ukscone1> weilding your mod powers eh mdavey
[22:37] <mdavey> That topic is my no.1 pet hate at the moment. It doesn't matter how many times the regulars explain that R.Pi staff have almost no influence over this or that the situation is the same with the other SoC chipsets.
[22:38] <mdavey> One poster (I forget who) hit the nail on the head when they said that open hardware and graphics drivers are basically the last two Open Source battlegrounds.
[22:43] <ukscone1> mmmmmMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmm twiglets
[22:43] <ukscone1> 1 bag left
[22:44] <ukscone1> going to have to horde them and one twiglet a day from now on
[22:44] <mdavey> Although I've heard others suggest that the Open Source community has taken its eye off the ball and with cloud computing, web services and technologies like Android, we are all sleep-walking into a new era of proprietaryness and vendor lock-in.
[22:44] <mdavey> One bag left? They didn't last long, did they?
[22:45] <ukscone1> well wife likes them too
[22:45] <ukscone1> and she found where i had hidden them
[22:46] <ReggieUK> mdavey, We've been doing it for years
[22:46] <mdavey> Oh no - out of stock!
[22:46] <ReggieUK> that sleepwalking thing
[22:46] <mdavey> http://www.ukgoods.com/jacobs-twiglets-200g-7oz-for-9-5.html
[22:46] <mdavey> ReggieUK: aye
[22:46] <ReggieUK> anyone remember paladium?
[22:46] <traeak> well there's a move towards lockdown
[22:47] <traeak> prolly should check intel stock...they really haven't shown up much in the game
[22:47] <traeak> i mean, the atom processor is a weak stopgap to miniturization
[22:47] <traeak> but the excitement is in the mobile area....full computing for under 10W
[22:47] <ReggieUK> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DyCq1GMCj-4J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base+microsoft+palladium&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
[22:47] <mdavey> damn it - need refreshments and in my pjs. Do I get dressed again, or use room service?
[22:48] <ReggieUK> microsoft have been looking at this for years
[22:48] <mdavey> (or go to the bar in my pjs)
[22:48] <ReggieUK> all our base belong to them
[22:48] <ukscone1> go to the bar in your pj's
[22:48] <traeak> yes they have, but i'm not sure if intel really would benefit from MS plyaing this game
[22:48] <ukscone1> at least you ARE wearing pj's
[22:48] <traeak> intel has more sales the more flexible and open their platform is
[22:49] <ReggieUK> I suspect intel would benefit from licensing tie ins as it's supposed to be done through the cpu in the first place
[22:49] <mdavey> ukscone1: actually no. But you know - polite company and all.
[22:49] <ReggieUK> they'd like your pc to be like an xbox360 and in the cloud
[22:50] <traeak> or maybe intel sees an "open platform" as a way to sell "value added" for more $$$s
[22:50] <ReggieUK> lets hope so
[22:50] <traeak> ReggieUK: Intel likely doesn't give a rip about what OS is running...they *need* linux to keep them in the top supercomputing clusters
[22:51] <mdavey> brb
[22:51] <ReggieUK> sure but it doesn't stop them putting features in their cpu
[22:51] <traeak> and intel is in huge danger of being eaten alive at the value end by all these arm devices
[22:51] <ReggieUK> linux doesn't have to use them
[22:51] <traeak> so the stupid thing for them to do would be to limit their audience when it looks like intel is about to totally bleed marketshare
[22:52] <ReggieUK> why should they limit their audience?
[22:52] <traeak> the lock down that's been discussed
[22:53] <traeak> interesting the brand new tegra3 just saw benchies
[22:53] <ReggieUK> but it shouldn't stop linux
[22:53] <ReggieUK> or at least that's not what I'm seeing proposed
[22:53] <traeak> nvidia technologically doesn't seem to have much in the ARM area...other arm based designers have much better performance in any of severl areas
[22:53] <traeak> okay
[22:54] <traeak> more like MS lockdown in particular
[22:54] <traeak> ?
[22:54] <mdavey> back
[22:54] <ReggieUK> I'm just seeing microsoft try and lock people into their stuff even further
[22:54] <mdavey> The bar was surprisingly busy
[22:55] <traeak> that seems wierd to me considering they frankly have nothing in the mobile market
[22:55] <traeak> and they think they can walk in and own everything with ios and android alreay entrenched
[22:55] <traeak> btw, rpi running windows8 would be really dumb, considering the whole point of the rpi is to allow for experimentation ...
[22:56] <ReggieUK> that would still allow experimentation
[22:56] <ReggieUK> just very slowly
[22:56] <traeak> everything the microsoft way as well
[22:56] <traeak> hmm
[22:57] <traeak> but i do have to admit, there is a window for MS at this point...i'm okay with android but really not happy with the choices google made
[22:57] <traeak> ie: android on rpi would likely suck really bad
[22:57] <ReggieUK> I've not had the pleasure of seeing android on anything particularly
[22:58] <traeak> i have a nook color and a gtablet both running cm7 with gingerbread
[22:58] <traeak> then again, tablets, phones don't *need* to be complex devices
[22:59] <ReggieUK> the bit that really P**ses me off about all of this is the constant drive to bring more hardware out, then bring it to it's knees with too many features or bloat software
[23:01] <traeak> *some* software advances aren't bad....UTF-8 handling for instance
[23:01] <traeak> ability to handle different inputs (kanjii, etc)
[23:01] <traeak> those inherently cause bloat
[23:02] <traeak> but i hear you...
[23:02] <ReggieUK> that sort of thing is fine and sometimes necessary :)
[23:03] <traeak> i think its required for something modern to be acceptable
[23:03] <traeak> but yeah, over engineering, etc
[23:03] <ReggieUK> if they just stopped fiddling with stuff
[23:03] <ukscone1> UTF-8/16..... is evil -- let them learn english and use decent letters and spelling :)
[23:03] <traeak> it's not like html rendering and javascript is something that can be solved cleanly
[23:03] <traeak> hehe
[23:03] <traeak> utf16 is pure evil
[23:03] <ReggieUK> linux is guilty of it too though
[23:03] <traeak> utf8 and utf32 are fine :-p
[23:04] <ReggieUK> although you do get to decide which bloat you get
[23:04] <traeak> i'd lay more blame at the feed of kde and gnome...but yeah, some mistakes
[23:04] <traeak> for development i run windowmaker on my desktop
[23:06] <traeak> it all probably means finding a clean framework again
[23:06] <traeak> "enlightenment" seems to be okay for small scale stuff
[23:06] <traeak> funny how the rpi is probably on par with a ps3 for running linux
[23:07] <traeak> may make sense to model an rpi system after whatever ps3 images folks are using
[23:07] <traeak> oh well
[23:12] <ReggieUK> :)
[23:12] <ukscone1> ok i'm outta here back around midnight -- so night all
[23:12] <ReggieUK> g'night ukscone1
[23:24] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mih209.mih.bellacenter.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)

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