#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-10-16

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:32] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[0:40] * NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD29A01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[0:41] * Skummel (~Mats@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:57] * DaQatz (~DB@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-58.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[1:04] <Soul_Est> ukscone: I'm not a nookcolor expert but I can help
[1:16] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:00] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:06] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:12] * Rocks (~DB@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-58.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:52] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56b8.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[3:08] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[4:19] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[6:12] * DaQatz (~DB@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-58.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[7:23] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-58-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:23] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[7:23] <ShiftPlusOne> Hello
[7:28] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@CPE00212977d1b7-CM0012250096a8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[9:25] * GeDaMo (~gedamo@dyn-62-56-67-219.dslaccess.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:26] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-58-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[9:27] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-58-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:27] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[9:32] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-58-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[9:33] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-58-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:33] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[13:07] * GeDaMo (~gedamo@dyn-62-56-67-219.dslaccess.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Spontaneous Total Existence Failure)
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[14:20] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-243-213.telstraclear.net) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[14:21] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-243-213.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Wahey! Sean is here! :D
[14:51] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:51] <zear> hello
[14:53] <zear> is there any toolchain available for raspberry pi?
[15:02] <ukscone> zear: not an "official" one but most either just use what is in debian or the code sourcery toolchain
[15:03] <ukscone> when the board is released you'll use whatever toolchain is in the distro you use on it or for cross compiling on a desktop probably the code sourcery one
[15:14] <zear> is raspberry oabi or eabi?
[15:20] <ukscone> depends on the distro you use but eabi as noone uses oabi for about 3 years if not longer
[15:21] <ukscone> well depends on the kernel in the distro as for some really mad reason it might be oabi but i very uch doubt it
[15:21] <zear> so no "official" distro/firmware for raspberry as of now?
[15:21] <ukscone> nope and there probably will never be a single official distro anyway
[15:21] <zear> or is this intended to be this way, as in buy raw hardware and turn it into whatever you want?
[15:22] <zear> ah, i see
[15:22] <ukscone> it'll probably be debian and arch and maybe another one or two
[15:22] <zear> reminds me of the Openmoko Freerunner where this solution turned out to have terrible consequences
[15:22] <ukscone> all the distros (pretty much the major ones) have alpha boards to work with
[15:23] <ukscone> so apart from ubuntu who don't support armv6 any more any distro you want will work
[15:23] <zear> where every dev would focus on his own distro and there's no firmware that actually works and is usable :)
[15:24] <zear> but i guess raspberry is different since it doesn't have any extra hardware like gsm modem, touchscreen or gps, so you could pretty much port X11 with any window manager and a set of desktop apps and it would be fine
[15:25] <ukscone> never had any problems with firmware except when the company supplying it is closed source
[15:25] <ukscone> yup there is nothing really that needs firmware other than what you add yourself
[15:25] <zear> so.. if i had a closed source program (game) and i'd want to port it to the raspberry, which distro should i aim at?
[15:26] <ukscone> and as long as you have a few usb drivers that covers pretty much everything
[15:27] <zear> my game's only two requirements are sdl and sdl_mixer
[15:27] <ukscone> depends oh which one you want to port it for. it's your choice. just not ubuntu and if you know what you are doing then distro makes no difference anyway only the packaging will be a consideration and that can be handled
[15:27] <zear> i guess i could just produce an eabi binary and it would just run anywhere where sdl is available?
[15:28] <ukscone> build it static and then no problems
[15:28] <zear> i can't, it's closed source
[15:28] <zear> so i'd probably violate sdl's gpl license about static linking
[15:28] <ukscone> then you will have to take into consideratrion sdl versions
[15:29] <ukscone> and also libc/uclibc/eglibc versions and alot of other stuff too
[15:29] <zear> or just ship a dynamic lib bundled with the game
[15:30] <ukscone> there ar elots of ways to do it but being closed source makes it harder than it needs to be
[15:30] <zear> is it possible to purchase the current dev board of raspberry?
[15:30] <ukscone> because so many variables
[15:30] <ukscone> no you can't get a raspberry pi until they are released
[15:30] <zear> aww, i see
[15:30] <ukscone> all the alpha boards are in use
[15:34] <zear> is there a known approximate release date?
[15:36] <ukscone> by christmas
[15:36] <zear> ah, so don't need to wait that long
[15:36] <ukscone> yup
[15:37] <zear> my idea is to turn raspberry into a gaming console
[15:37] <zear> you know, a simple menu with a set of emulators and some native linux games
[15:37] <zear> hooking up two controllers and can play some classics
[15:37] <ukscone> yup several ppl are going to be doing that
[15:37] <ukscone> there is a thread on the forum about it
[15:37] <zear> ah, gonna check it out
[15:38] <ukscone> it's an old thread so it's probably buried deep
[15:38] <zear> i have some experience in porting games to linux handhelds, perhaps i could help if there was a distro dedicated to gaming
[15:41] <ukscone> well i think i heeard that someone was goign to port some stuff menus and the like from the dingoo, gp32x (sic), nanonote, z2.....
[15:41] <zear> well, dingoo, nanonote and gph devices (gp32, gp2x, wiz, caanoo), all use gmenu2x
[15:42] <zear> and that's what i was also thinking of using as a menu system :)
[15:42] <ukscone> yup that was the thing i was thinking of
[15:42] <zear> the nanonote/dingoo fork should be best
[15:42] <ukscone> there is a port for the zipit too iirc
[15:42] <zear> since it's fixing some bugs from the gph consoles version
[15:43] <zear> i wonder if the caanoo or pandora games will run on raspberry
[15:43] <zear> they should be binary compatible
[15:43] <ukscone> not neccessarily
[15:44] <zear> weird button mapping and some minimal hardware differencies aside, it should work
[15:44] <ukscone> it all depends on how they were built, what libs they use and stuff like that . they should do ram and cpu wise though
[15:45] <zear> yes of course, but as long as they don't use any harware exclusive to that platforms (accelerometers, etc) and are dynamically linked with standard libraries, they should work on the raspberry
[15:45] <zear> for example, my game compiled with the caanoo toolchain also runs on the pandora using the same binary
[15:46] <zear> there's a very interesting program available for that platforms, called "Ginge". It allows for running gp2x and wiz software on caanoo and pandora
[15:46] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[15:46] <zear> including commercial games
[15:47] <ukscone> yup i use soem binaries from aboriginal linux on the zipit and the same binary on a couple of other devices BUT they are built static because you can never rely on the correct lib version especially uclibc
[15:47] <zear> perhaps it could be also ported to the raspberry, that would immidiately open it to hundreds of games and emulators
[15:47] * GeDaMo (~gedamo@dyn-62-56-67-219.dslaccess.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:48] <ukscone> but in theory binaries that run on pxa2xx soc's shoudl be ok on the rapsberry pi
[15:48] <ukscone> some of the clever stuff might be a problem but if you have the source then fixable
[15:49] <ukscone> i.e. i do some gpio bit twiddiling using mmap that until i get a raspberry pi i won't know is usabe on it
[15:49] <zear> i wonder about a glfrontier port. It's a reverse engineered clone of David Braben's Frontier: Elite II. And i heard that he's involved in the Raspberry project :)
[15:52] <ukscone> there are rumours that something elitelike will be incl. on the education version early next year but there are some IP problems with elite so might not happen. it's a tossup but you could always port oolite
[15:52] <zear> or glfrontier :)
[15:54] <zear> i think Raspberry has a potential as a platform for commercial games, but that would require some work to attract the developers
[15:54] <zear> i'm thinking mainly of the indie scene
[15:54] <ukscone> well once you have a raspi what you do with it is up to you so if that is what you want to do go for it
[15:54] <zear> of course, i just wonder what's mr Braben's opinion on glfrontier
[15:55] <ukscone> probably the same as ian livingstons
[15:55] <ukscone> which will not be very high afaik
[15:55] <zear> :)
[15:56] <ukscone> there is a long history with regard to elite and clones and copies and versions -- google it sometime. interesting reading :)
[15:57] <GeDaMo> I had fond memories of Elite until I played Oolite, the gameplay just seemed so slow :/
[16:00] <ukscone> i played elite a bit but i was never a bbc micro fan other than it existed and ppl used it
[16:00] <ukscone> i am a z80 fanboy so all the computers i liked used that cpu
[16:01] <GeDaMo> I had a ZX81 and a Newbury Newbrain
[16:01] <GeDaMo> Actually, I still have my ZX81
[16:01] <ukscone> we had bbc's at school and college but i only used them on breaks i liked thee rml380z much more
[16:01] <ukscone> i had a graundy newbrain :) loved it
[16:01] <ukscone> it got smashed ina move had the one with the vfd
[16:02] <ukscone> i mess with the newbrain emulator alot
[16:02] <GeDaMo> Ooh, posh :P
[16:02] <zear> i'm from a younger generation, so i don't have much experience with pre-pc machines, although the old games have an amazing atmosphere. And the gameplay is on very high level
[16:02] <ukscone> my favourite computers from that era were the tandy model 3/4 and the camputers lynx, but the rest are good too
[16:03] <GeDaMo> I lusted after many machines of that era :P
[16:03] <zear> especially the elite series. With frontier you feel like you're really exploring the universe. And the physics are all accurate as opposed to the silly plane-like flight model in other space shooters
[16:03] <GeDaMo> The thing that sticks most in my memory of Elite was manually docking with space stations
[16:04] <ukscone> that was a right pita until you could afford the auto docker
[16:04] <GeDaMo> :D
[16:05] <zear> and the classical music that plays during the docking phase (at least in Frontier), a reference to 2001: Space Odyssey
[16:08] <ukscone> ok i'm outta here back tonight
[16:08] <zear> ukscone, thanks for all the info
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[19:31] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-58-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[21:36] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[22:25] <ukscone> http://hackaday.com/2011/10/16/easy-to-use-automatic-qr-code-generator/
[22:46] * PaulW (~PaulW@CPE001310360dac-CM001e6b0f7310.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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