#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-10-29

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:17] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:19] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[1:12] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:17] * ctyler tries this weather thing...
[1:17] <ctyler> !weather set c
[1:18] <PiBot> Not found.
[1:18] <ctyler> !weather_set c
[1:18] <PiBot> ctyler: You're now using celsius.
[1:18] <ctyler> !w toronto
[1:18] <PiBot> ctyler: in Toronto, ON on Sat Oct 29 02:00:00 2011. Temp 7??C. Condition: Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 61%. Later 8??C - 2??C. Condition: Mostly Sunny
[1:20] <ctyler> !w
[1:20] <PiBot> ctyler: in Toronto, ON on Sat Oct 29 02:00:00 2011. Temp 7??C. Condition: Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 61%. Later 8??C - 2??C. Condition: Mostly Sunny
[1:21] <ctyler> !days_to_launch
[1:21] <ctyler> well, it was worth a shot.
[1:23] <traeak> !w
[1:23] <PiBot> traeak: in Parker, CO on Fri Oct 28 16:53:00 2011. Temp 9??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 29%. Later 11??C - -2??C. Condition: Clear
[1:24] * DaQatz (~DB@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[1:47] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
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[2:27] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:54] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[3:01] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[3:52] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56ad.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[7:03] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:26] * Shift_ (~Shift@124-148-131-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:29] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-131-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[9:20] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-218-51-62.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:27] * Shift_ is now known as ShiftPlusOne
[9:38] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[9:47] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:00] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:25] * kcj (~casey@203-173-217-237.dialup.ihug.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:41] * bandit12 (~AndChat@host-92-25-62-171.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:00] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:39] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[14:02] <ukscone> Adrian Lees has arrived at the show. He's got??#RISCOS??running on the??#Raspberry_Pi??. WOO - HOO !??#ROLS??@RISCOScode -- woohoo
[14:39] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-131-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:40] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-131-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[14:47] <ukscone> hi ShiftPlusOne
[14:48] <ShiftPlusOne> Hello
[14:49] <ukscone> just been reading the riscos twitter feed. they have riscos running on the raspi -- ok atm they use a windows laptop and a serial port but that'll help with debugging and getting usb working
[14:50] <ShiftPlusOne> what's the advantage of riscos?
[14:50] <ukscone> well it's coming home for the arm, a nice retro feel, and it is the only os left that one person can understand in it's entirity
[14:50] <ukscone> and a load of other things too
[14:51] <ukscone> it's not really advantages though it's more "not linux"
[14:51] <friggle> but it's not Open Source/Free Software
[14:51] <ukscone> although it does have some abilities that make it interesting
[14:52] <friggle> the source is available, but it has a commercial usage restriction
[14:52] <ShiftPlusOne> what about support for existing libraries? can you get SDL and such working?
[14:52] <friggle> still, it's a great proof of concept for other OSes running on the raspberry pi
[14:52] <ukscone> the os can be put conpletly in rom and you can still link to it or it can be all in ram or it can be a combo
[14:52] <friggle> they have a slight advantage as Adrian Lees works at Broadcom
[14:53] <ukscone> friggle: yes so he can get docs others can't
[14:53] <ukscone> friggle: it's not something you'd want to run all the time but for that nice warm fuzzy nostalgia feeling and proper bbc basic it'll be nice
[14:54] <ukscone> although it does cost money to buy
[14:54] <friggle> ukscone: yeah, I'm happy to see it
[14:55] <ukscone> i already in theory have cp/m and z80 for the raspi (built yaze and z80pack for it) so have all my old s/w for the raspi but it'll be nice to see and i might even see about getting riscos for it just because
[14:55] <ukscone> it'll stop people using my computers when i'm not looking for a start
[14:57] <ShiftPlusOne> Anything new going on on the forums? I haven't been there in ages.
[14:57] <ukscone> if i ever pull my finger out and finish this damn program and sd card environment i'll have a go at building openwrt for the raspi. it mostly runs now, just need to get final kernel built -- everything else but the feeds and gpio stuff sem to be ok in the vm
[14:58] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: not really, few trolls, few nappies, few sensible threads -- same old same old
[14:58] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: and you can now register on the site that will become the webstore although nothing on it yet
[14:59] <ShiftPlusOne> Oh, nice.
[14:59] <ShiftPlusOne> Can I get a link? Don't see on the main page
[15:00] <ukscone> thee first thing that will go up apparently is a sticker for a one pound donation
[15:00] <ukscone> http://raspberrypi.com
[15:00] <ShiftPlusOne> .com!? D=
[15:01] <ukscone> nothing one there yet but might as well get your account on there so you are ready
[15:02] <ukscone> well in theory it's against the rules to have a "for profit" activity on a .org but i have never actually met anyone that follows that rule :)
[15:02] <ShiftPlusOne> I am pretty sure their server will barely hold up when they start selling, so I'd rather not fiddle with registration then =)
[15:02] <friggle> the webstore isn't a for profit activity
[15:02] <ukscone> friggle: some of the stuff will be
[15:02] <friggle> ukscone: you can still sell things at above cost as a charity. It's what you do with that money afterwards
[15:03] <ukscone> friggle: liz has stated that they psu's, keyboards, mice.... although cheeap will be for profit (to run the foundation)
[15:03] <ukscone> friggle: it's seperation of activities -- have to be very careful in the uk charity status wise
[15:04] <friggle> well it's still being sold by Raspberry Pi the UK registered charity
[15:04] <ukscone> friggle: yes it is but charities int he uk have to be very careful about what and how they make and use money
[15:05] <friggle> indeed
[15:06] <ukscone> friggle: in the 80s i was involved with several charities and one lost it's charity status because they ran a store and theeir bookkeeping incorrectly assigned a sale for profit to the wrong column
[15:06] <ukscone> took them 2 years to fix it
[15:06] <ukscone> it's was a 100 quid mistake
[15:07] <ukscone> that would have been fixable if they had caught it before sending their books in
[15:08] <ukscone> !w 11220
[15:08] <PiBot> ukscone: in Brooklyn, NY on Sat Oct 29 11:51:00 2011. Temp 7??C. Condition: , Humidity: 58%. Later 6??C - 0??C. Condition: Snow
[15:08] <ukscone> pibot you lie it won't be snow it'll be slush :( guess it'll have to be the first slushman of the season
[15:23] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[15:34] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:51] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56ad.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:51] <ShiftPlusOne> Is there a reason phone manufacturers which do slide-out keyboards refuse to stagger the keys? >=/
[15:58] <DaQatz> Yes
[15:58] <DaQatz> Because they are jerks
[16:06] <ukscone> well i am a jerk
[16:07] <ukscone> i just spent 30 minutes debugging a program and wonderign why it wasn't accepting keypresses. helps if i load the keyboard module
[16:07] <ukscone> it can't read the keyboard if i don't tell it a keyboard exists
[16:16] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:28] * FireFly (firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) Quit (Changing host)
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[16:34] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@adsl-99-35-86-54.dsl.kntpin.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:25] <ShiftPlusOne> shouldn't IT_Sean be peering in right about now? O_o
[17:26] <ShiftPlusOne> ...this channel has changed
[17:37] <ukscone> he's probably spending the day under the blankets -- it's a bit nippy where he is and a bit of snow on the way
[17:43] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[17:48] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:48] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, your stalking skills have always been impressive
[17:49] <ShiftPlusOne> Seems like you always knew exactly where Liz and Eben were at every point in time in the time leading up to and after maker faire.
[17:50] <ukscone> well i know where (approx to the county) they are now and i can surmise their approx location to within 100miles
[17:52] * vgrade (~martinbro@cpc2-nrte22-2-0-cust128.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:52] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:54] <ukscone> i believe although i may be mistaken that eben is probably over iceland atm give or take a few miles and liz is probably in northamptonshire -- just rough guesses though
[17:55] <ShiftPlusOne> They found the GPS trackers, have they?
[17:55] <ukscone> doesn't look like it :) amazing how small they make them these days
[17:56] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:28] * TinHat (~puppy@static-87-102-120-146.karoo.KCOM.COM) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:31] <TinHat> well hello
[18:36] * Beakster (~Beakster@206-248-160-179.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:36] <ShiftPlusOne> hey
[18:36] <Beakster> yo
[18:37] <ShiftPlusOne> That was for TinHat, you insensitive clod. >=/
[18:37] <TinHat> meh
[18:38] <TinHat> a tremor in the force
[18:38] <xenoxaos> he didnt know that
[18:39] <ShiftPlusOne> xenoxaos, I know, I wasn't being serious there.
[18:39] <xenoxaos> and neither was i
[18:39] <xenoxaos> :P
[18:39] <DaQatz> Nice backpedal xenoxaos
[18:39] <ShiftPlusOne> just making sure that's know... wouldn't want to start a race riot or something
[18:40] <TinHat> I didn't accidently step on something, did I?
[18:41] <DaQatz> No TinHat we just have senses of humor.
[18:41] <DaQatz> Why so paranoid?
[18:41] <TinHat> oh you never know
[18:41] <TinHat> they're everywhere
[18:42] <ShiftPlusOne> heh, well played.
[19:08] * ukscone1 (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:08] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:17] <TinHat> you're alright ukscone1?
[19:20] <ShiftPlusOne> watching 2001: A space odyssey.... it looks the same at normal speed and at 4x =/
[19:24] <TinHat> As a kid I prob watched 2010 three times a years
[19:25] <TinHat> they never aired 2001 on TNT for some reason
[19:26] <ShiftPlusOne> honestly, I don't see what the fuss is about =/ maybe it's something you've got to read the book for to appreciate or something.
[19:28] <TinHat> he wrote it on a KayPro, quite like Clark for that
[19:32] <ShiftPlusOne> is 2010 similar to what I just watched? (same cinematography style and all)
[19:32] <TinHat> well it's the sequel
[19:33] <TinHat> it's a bit naff tho
[19:34] <TinHat> less esoteric with a bit of 70's cold war stuff thrown in
[19:35] <ShiftPlusOne> got it
[19:38] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, for 1968, the effects are pretty damn impressive
[19:39] <ReggieUK> Hi all
[19:39] <ReggieUK> I don't think I've actually ever watched 2010
[19:39] <ReggieUK> 2001 is fantastic though
[19:40] <zear> Space Odyssey's awesomenes is not into special effects, it's about accurate physics
[19:40] <ReggieUK> and vision
[19:40] <ReggieUK> it feels timeless
[19:41] <ReggieUK> not like some space stuff from the same period
[19:41] <TinHat> nothing absolutely nothing beets Solaris by Tarkowski
[19:42] <zear> well, although for me it's David Braben's homage that made Space Odyssey memorable
[19:42] * ShiftPlusOne feels stupid for not 'getting it'
[19:42] <ShiftPlusOne> screw you all I am going to go watch start wars
[19:42] <zear> you know, the same docking sequence music
[19:42] <ShiftPlusOne> start!?
[19:42] <TinHat> lol
[19:42] <ReggieUK> THX 1138 is another movie I really enjoyed from that period
[19:42] <ShiftPlusOne> *star >.>
[19:42] <TinHat> THX was fun yeah
[19:43] <ReggieUK> some memorable moments in it
[19:43] <zear> hmm.. i haven't seen THX, but the release date almost guarantees it has to be good
[19:44] <TinHat> wasn't it the first real film by Lucas?
[19:44] <ReggieUK> like when the guy drops the nuclear rod in his pod, everyone poops their pants, his 'helper' shuts the door on him, you watch the rod burn through everything then hear the muffled explosion and see the flash
[19:45] <ReggieUK> and the whole ending of the movie watching the $$ rack up for the cost of the police chasing the fugitives
[19:45] <TinHat> the police units looked a bit gay
[19:46] <ReggieUK> they do kind of but not as bad as most bots have done
[19:46] <ReggieUK> at least they looked humanoid
[19:49] <ShiftPlusOne> lol... Samsung using 2001 to counter Apple is interesting though. No wonder they copy Apple's designs so shamelessly.
[19:50] <ReggieUK> lol, like apple have ever had any shame copying anything
[19:50] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:50] <TinHat> tehe
[19:50] <ShiftPlusOne> absolutely not... Steve used to be quite open about that, I am sure we've all seen the clip
[19:51] <ShiftPlusOne> "Good artists borrow, great artists steal"
[19:51] <TinHat> and what is that supposed to say? I mean really
[19:52] <TinHat> on the outside it sounds clever but come on
[19:52] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU I actually like Steve Jobs from those days. Not to be disrespectful to a dead guy or anything.
[19:53] <ReggieUK> quite funny really that he advocates theft then his company tries to litigate against anyone they can
[19:55] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't personally see 'ideas' as something that can be stolen. To me, to steal something is to deprive someone of something that they currently have.... several people can have the same ideas. But that's just my opinion.
[19:55] <ReggieUK> I'm with you on that one but we weren't talking about personal opinion, we were talking about steve's opinion :)
[19:55] <TinHat> well who knows, one day Bill Gates might be known as the man who defeated malaria.
[19:55] <ReggieUK> I think for the most part patent/copyright law is a bit of a dick on the quiet
[19:56] <TinHat> Steve on the other hand stopped all charity in the late 90's untill apple could afford it
[19:57] <ReggieUK> I guess paying creative labs $100 million for the theft of the ipod gui didn't help there?
[19:58] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, what's that? O_o
[19:58] <TinHat> I'll leave the theft thingy for the courts to decide
[19:58] <ReggieUK> http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/47380-Apple-Pays-Creative-Labs-100-Million-To-Settle-Patent-Suit
[19:59] <ReggieUK> 'The agreement settles all five outstanding suits between the two companies, the most recent of which were filed in May and June of this year and concerned several audio-related patents. The most important, the so-called "Zen" patent, involved the software menus used to find and play back music on portable music players.'
[19:59] <ReggieUK> apple being a great artist it would appear....
[20:00] <ReggieUK> and getting busted
[20:01] <ShiftPlusOne> haven't heard about that one
[20:02] <ReggieUK> you have now ;)
[20:02] <TinHat> yeah but patent claims over the idea of having a button to make one click payments seem a bit uhm
[20:02] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, what do you see as the purpose of courts? Simply to interpret laws? If so, interpret them for who's benefit?
[20:02] <TinHat> not related to that one of course
[20:02] <ReggieUK> well, yeah, and apples current claims about samsung phones looking like iphones
[20:02] <ReggieUK> they're all fscking phones, a screen and something to push
[20:03] <ReggieUK> same as they ever were
[20:03] <ShiftPlusOne> to be fair I just ordered a Galaxy S 2... it looks remarkably like an iphone.
[20:03] <ReggieUK> sure of course
[20:03] <TinHat> form follows function?
[20:03] <ReggieUK> but I expect phones to look pretty similar and that's my point
[20:03] <ShiftPlusOne> and Apple were the first to come out with that design as far as I know... the old Windows phones looked like crap.
[20:04] <ReggieUK> but the iphone and all mobile phones use exactly the same as they ever did
[20:04] <TinHat> ShiftPlusOne the function of the legal system is to maintain and clarify the law as it is, yes
[20:04] <ReggieUK> a screen and something to push, buttons, touchscreen, doesn't matter, it all requires fairly similar usage
[20:04] <TinHat> courts do not make the law
[20:06] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, a part of clarification is taking into consideration the intent of those laws and that's where I feel the courts have gone horribly wrong.
[20:07] <ReggieUK> indeed, and that's not just in patent law, it's across the board
[20:07] <ShiftPlusOne> yup... that's a thought I had a while ago when ukscone mentioned a charity he was working for getting screwed over because of a minor accounting mistake
[20:07] <TinHat> I disagree. Part of the problem is that most of our legal understanding and codified laws stem from the days of the industrialization
[20:08] <TinHat> They need to evolve, sure but I wouldn't blame the courts for that
[20:08] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, I agree with that statement, so don't think that's a contridiction to anything I've said.
[20:08] <ReggieUK> courts don't make the law but they do interpret it
[20:09] <TinHat> exactly
[20:09] <TinHat> but only to a certain extent
[20:09] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, that's meant to be the strength behind the separation of power and all that.
[20:09] <TinHat> lawyers tend to be quite conservative
[20:10] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't know, it seems to me like society needs to start from scratch... and the way the world economy is going that might be exactly what's going to happen. =/
[20:11] <ReggieUK> depends whether china buys europe or not at the moment though doesn't it?
[20:12] <ShiftPlusOne> I may be wrong, but I don't see that as China's endgame. Where is that coming from?
[20:12] <TinHat> eurobonds etc
[20:13] * deadprogram (~ron@cpe-76-172-24-111.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] <TinHat> Merkozy trying to sell our debts to China
[20:13] <ReggieUK> that's coming from it being mooted that they made need to go to china to raise funds for the euro bailout
[20:14] <ReggieUK> may*
[20:14] <ShiftPlusOne> so how would that affect europe (pardon my ignorance)?
[20:15] <ReggieUK> if they can't find the funds then it doesn't matter how much of a bailout they'd like to say they have :)
[20:15] <ShiftPlusOne> (apart from putting in the same sitation as the rest of the world)
[20:15] <ReggieUK> so greece defaults, the euro goes down, drags the world economy with it
[20:16] <ReggieUK> greece may well still default whatever they do
[20:16] <TinHat> China won't have an interest in seeing the eurozone go down
[20:16] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't see the world economy as being that dependant on the euro.
[20:17] <TinHat> the euro market collapsing would have a considerable impact on world economy
[20:17] <TinHat> especially for those selling their goods to us
[20:18] <ShiftPlusOne> I mean, the American recession was only a minor dent from which we quickly recovered (in Australia), why would the Euro be worse?
[20:18] <ShiftPlusOne> (and yes the recession was nowhere near as dramatic as the collapse of the euro would be, I know)
[20:18] <ReggieUK> because a lot of countries haven't recovered from the recession
[20:19] <ReggieUK> not sufficiently to cope with another recession
[20:19] <ReggieUK> hence the term double-dip being bandied about in the UK and US
[20:20] <ShiftPlusOne> I guess it's closer to home for those of you in the UK.
[20:20] <ReggieUK> kinda but we're not tied to the bailout as much as say france or germany
[20:21] <ReggieUK> we're really going through a phase of whether we actually want to be part of the euro
[20:21] <ReggieUK> which isn't helping
[20:21] <ReggieUK> well, more the EU as we're not part of the euro and have no real desire either
[20:21] <ShiftPlusOne> When I look at countries which kind of know what they're doing, I am thinking Russia, Cuba and other countries which are moving away from getting into debts and selling out their resources.
[20:21] <TinHat> I think it comes at a time when some of the new players are starting to question the US-EU dominance in certain fields
[20:21] <ReggieUK> cuba?
[20:21] <ReggieUK> aren't they virtually screwed?
[20:22] <ReggieUK> lucky to be feeding themselves
[20:22] <TinHat> like the argument over us picking the successor for Dominik Strauss Kahn
[20:22] <ReggieUK> waiting for castro to die so the country can actually earn some money
[20:23] <ReggieUK> yeah, IMF top job, poison chalice right now it seems
[20:26] <ShiftPlusOne> well their external debt is only 34% of their GDP, which is pretty good for the condition they are in
[20:27] <ReggieUK> sure but $3.40 is nothing to shout about :D
[20:27] <TinHat> would anybody actually lend them money? I think not
[20:29] <TinHat> wasn't there the Helms-Burton Act?
[20:30] <ShiftPlusOne> But is their debt low because they are trying to be more self sufficient or because they can't find anyone to lend them money?
[20:31] <TinHat> as I said the effectively us vetoed cuban credits
[20:32] <TinHat> so they can't ask for credits
[20:33] <ShiftPlusOne> Reading the wikipedia page, it seems like they're doing pretty well compared to other comparable countries.
[20:35] <ShiftPlusOne> "Cuba has a 99.8% literacy rate, an infant death rate lower than some developed countries, and an average life expectancy of 77.64. In 2006, Cuba was the only nation in the world which met the WWF's definition of sustainable development; having an ecological footprint of less than 1.8 hectares per capita and a Human Development Index of over 0.8 for 2007."
[20:35] <ShiftPlusOne> not to mention the social services
[20:36] <ReggieUK> hmmmn, that wasn't really what I'd heard only recently
[20:36] <ReggieUK> struggling with paying for all their services (public sector workers) to the point of actually allowing people to open businesses)
[20:37] <TinHat> more like it
[20:37] <ReggieUK> struggling to feed themselves properly due to a lack of people that knew what they were doing with farm land
[20:37] <ShiftPlusOne> perhaps... that was one of those things that led to collapse of communism in Russia, so I wouldn't be surprised
[20:38] <ReggieUK> And I'm wondering how accurate those figures really are given that cuba is not exactly great at being forthcoming with information
[20:38] <ReggieUK> russia never had communism
[20:38] <ShiftPlusOne> oh please....
[20:38] * deadprogram (~ron@cpe-76-172-24-111.socal.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:39] <ahven> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/29/1236236/weaponizable-police-uav-now-operational-in-texas << are the movies telling the future or are we replicating the results? :)
[20:39] <ReggieUK> they had a favoured elite just like the rest of the planet
[20:40] <ahven> and in event of riots they replace the baton with some more effective crowd control weapon :P
[20:45] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... police departments seem to be going all out. I wonder if they'll bring the millitary out against OWS soon =/
[20:46] <ReggieUK> lets hope not
[20:46] <TinHat> bah, law enforcement. Had my bike stolen few days ago and with all the cctv in the world there's no chance that I'm going to see it again
[20:46] <ahven> they are sadly going that way over here: less money to fire departments and more reliant on volunteers
[20:47] <ReggieUK> although I feel that their protest is ultimately wasted
[20:47] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, well then you should've chained your bike better >=/
[20:47] <TinHat> it's a locked compound!
[20:47] <ShiftPlusOne> excuses
[20:48] <TinHat> but yeah tuff luck
[20:48] <TinHat> still peeved about them not being able to do anything
[20:48] <ShiftPlusOne> Was it just a bicycle or a motorbike?
[20:49] <TinHat> cheap folding bike so could be worse
[20:50] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, then I am confused as to why someone would go through the effort. If someone wants something bad enough, then they'll try to take it... it's just your job to make it require more effort than they're willing to put in.... breaking into a locked compound to steal a folding bike? =/
[20:50] <ShiftPlusOne> Or were they hoping for more and took what they could get?
[20:51] <ReggieUK> orrrrrrr
[20:51] <ReggieUK> stolen to order!!
[20:51] <TinHat> No, you're right. It worth what, 20 30 quid?
[20:51] <ReggieUK> time to stake out the train station
[20:52] <TinHat> I'll write a 700 word long rant and put it on my gopher site, for the world to know
[20:52] <TinHat> well, the gopher reading part of the world
[20:54] <ShiftPlusOne> gopher?
[20:56] <ShiftPlusOne> ok looked it up... people still use it? O_o
[20:57] <TinHat> not really :-P
[20:57] <TinHat> gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/
[20:58] <ShiftPlusOne> jesus... is everyone here 80 years old or something?
[20:58] <TinHat> dunno
[20:59] <ShiftPlusOne> Seems like there is a lot of nostalgia in this community
[21:01] <ShiftPlusOne> "you kids and your world wide web... back in my day we used carrier pterosaurs"
[21:01] <ShiftPlusOne> and all that
[21:01] <TinHat> well retro stuff is fun
[21:02] <TinHat> a bit like command line
[21:02] <ShiftPlusOne> carrier pterosaurs are nothing like command line.
[21:03] <TinHat> no but they used to be cool
[21:03] <TinHat> totally rocked
[21:04] <ShiftPlusOne> (but yeah, don't take offense anyone, I was only quoting ukscone)
[21:05] <ReggieUK> you don't have to be anywhere near 80 to be pre-internet
[21:16] <ahven> I wonder what is that thing what I'm going to say: "I'm too old for that sh*t" :P
[21:17] <ShiftPlusOne> huh?
[21:20] <ahven> ok, wasn't the best sentence but it's somewhat common to hear that "I don't use the internet, computers are hard" and that is mostly from the older (60+) crowd
[21:21] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah I thought that's what you meant, was just making sure.
[21:22] <ahven> if you haven't still noticed, english isn't my first language :)
[21:22] <ShiftPlusOne> Personally, I refuse to touch social networking platforms >=/ ... apart from following a few people on twitter.
[21:22] <TinHat> never got that, I mean it's not like computers arrived yesterday
[21:22] <ShiftPlusOne> Psh.. not mine either.
[21:23] <ShiftPlusOne> so social netowrking is where I draw the line... and I think technology for the masses will mostly revolve around that.
[21:23] <ahven> I remember when my mother started on working computers, it was a slow learning process but she is quite ok doing what she has to (documents/e-mail/web)
[21:23] <TinHat> but it always used to be around social networking
[21:23] <TinHat> usenet bbs etc same thing
[21:24] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, yeah but not typically the people you hang out with. I don't see the point of that when I can just you know... call them or drive over.
[21:24] <TinHat> my mom's fine with the net though she insists on using the webinterface for email instead of using a proper client. Thinks it's unsafe, thats kinda cute
[21:25] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: 30+ish? For me it is too late to go back now, I just keep it to myself if I don't want it to be found out by the rest of the world - leaks/bugs happen sadly
[21:26] <ahven> TinHat: hopefully through a SSL connection? :)
[21:26] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, what's improper about a web interface?
[21:26] <TinHat> ShiftPlusOne yeah, agree with that
[21:26] <TinHat> web interface sucks bigtime
[21:26] <ShiftPlusOne> ahven, 30ish? nah, 20ish.
[21:26] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: yep, social networking doesn't replace voice communication, like phones
[21:26] <ReggieUK> my dad is 60+ and builds his own websites, writes in C/C++ and used to be able to do assembler
[21:27] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, an exception, not the norm.
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[21:28] <ReggieUK> as for avoiding social networking, that's not because it's difficult, it's because you don't percieve a net gain from what you put in to what you get out ;)
[21:28] <ReggieUK> at least that's why I don't use them
[21:28] <TinHat> computers used to be very expensive, perhaps that's why most of them never used one
[21:28] <ReggieUK> but then again, that's not strictly true
[21:28] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, I don't know I've tried 'proper clients'... didn't care much for them. Hotmail annoys me, but gmail's interface seems good enough.
[21:29] <ReggieUK> because forums have been around a lot longer than facebook or twitter and are forms of social networking
[21:29] <ahven> TinHat: and raspi will make it more simpler/cheaper to obtain one:)
[21:29] <TinHat> ahven: yes!
[21:29] <ShiftPlusOne> again forums are more about contact with a community 'out there' not your friends and coworkers.
[21:30] <TinHat> gmail tries to replicate a proper client online, fair enough
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[21:30] <TinHat> hotmail? that's like AOL btw
[21:30] <ReggieUK> lol, 100+ 'friends' on facebook is also a community and not real family and friends
[21:31] <TinHat> I thought I'd have a look at *diaspora
[21:31] <TinHat> but uhm...?
[21:31] <TinHat> can't see the point of it really
[21:31] <ahven> hmm, a challenge - count the persons you know in real life? :)
[21:32] <TinHat> whats IRL?
[21:32] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, AFK
[21:32] <ahven> toilet break? :)
[21:32] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[21:32] <TinHat> lol
[21:33] <ShiftPlusOne> wait... nobody wrote 'IRL'.... ahven wrote "in real life"... why would you ask? O_o
[21:33] <TinHat> :-P
[21:34] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[21:40] * deadprogram (~ron@cpe-76-172-24-111.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:41] <ahven> 62% of my FB list is people I know from real life, not counting the people who I have very briefly seen or shortly spoken with (126 out of 204)
[21:41] <ahven> I imagined that percentage would be higher myself
[21:41] <ShiftPlusOne> sorry the conversation died, you missed it.
[21:42] <ahven> ssh, trying to resurrect it :P
[21:42] <ShiftPlusOne> must've been away counting your friends.
[21:42] <ahven> I have 2 monitors, so no :)
[21:43] <ahven> must be a IRC'aholic, the second monitor is dedicated to XChat 99% of the time
[21:43] <ahven> an*
[21:44] <ahven> sorry, will crawl back to my hole, drinking whiskey as well over here, usually I'm pretty quiet :P
[21:44] <ShiftPlusOne> resurrect it? I tend to throw a midly controversial topic out there on which people will have interesting opinions.
[21:45] <TinHat> eh?
[21:45] <ShiftPlusOne> so... is it possible for something to be impossible?
[21:45] <ShiftPlusOne> or "any christians here?"
[21:46] <ShiftPlusOne> or "if prunes are dried up plums, how do we get prune juice?"
[21:46] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: my country is one of the greatest atheist countries in Europe, so no go from here :)
[21:46] <TinHat> sounds like quite an ice breaker
[21:46] <ahven> yep
[21:46] <TinHat> albania?
[21:46] <ahven> biggest would be the correst word
[21:46] <ShiftPlusOne> ahven, Nazi Germany? Soviet Russia?
[21:46] <ahven> nah, Estonia, if you have heard anything similar
[21:46] <TinHat> lol
[21:47] <TinHat> Estonia is what?
[21:47] <ahven> happens to be a country :)
[21:48] <TinHat> yeah but where does biggest enter the equation?
[21:48] <TinHat> (genuine curiousity)
[21:48] <ShiftPlusOne> TinHat, I am not sure your question makes sense.
[21:49] <ahven> we have the least amount (so as I remember atleast) of "faith" here, in terms of churches
[21:49] <ahven> we have lot of churches, but they are not built because of people didn't have any room left in the previous ones :)
[21:49] <ShiftPlusOne> So... are they still hating Russians over there in Estonia?
[21:50] <TinHat> so the highest percentage of not religious citizens, ok
[21:50] <ahven> TinHat: yes,
[21:51] <TinHat> I've only ever been to Riga so not quite your neck of the woods
[21:51] <TinHat> nice tho
[21:52] <ahven> generally, we are 'hating' the Russians who have born and live here and don't want anything to do in terms of blending in with the rest of the crowd
[21:52] <ahven> for them it's like Russia is still in direct control of this country
[21:52] <ShiftPlusOne> got it
[21:52] <ahven> and they don't want to go to Russia either, because it's worse over there :P
[21:52] <TinHat> used to be that way for centuries. Old habits die hard
[21:52] <ahven> stalemate
[21:55] <TinHat> my family came from the region (broadly speaking)
[21:55] <ahven> for me it was an interesting fact that the greatest wave of deportation failed to happen in the 70s
[21:55] <ShiftPlusOne> ahven, so do they wear ushankas and valenki, eat their borsch and do the hopak instead of <insert Estonian stuff here>?
[21:56] <TinHat> guess it's more Ladas and Vodka nowadays
[21:56] <ShiftPlusOne> not zhiguli's?
[21:57] <ShiftPlusOne> oh wait, that's by Lada
[21:57] <ShiftPlusOne> nvrm
[21:57] <TinHat> and not speaking the lingo
[21:58] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: it's mostly a problem for the capital luckily, they do not want to learn our language, for example, and then curse the goverment for not being nice to them :P
[21:58] <ahven> it is very slowly getting better, the new generation is nicer
[21:59] <ShiftPlusOne> ahven, nuh I know exactly what you mean, I was born in Ukraine, but I don't cling to that as an identity, I see myself as Australian.
[22:00] <ShiftPlusOne> so yeah, when I first came here and sucked at English, I mostly hung out with Russians
[22:00] <ShiftPlusOne> but blended in eventually.
[22:00] <ahven> it's the enviroment you grow up, that makes a person, not the birthplace
[22:00] <ukscone1> ShiftPlusOne: they kick you out of the ukraine because you were too friendly with the sheep? :)
[22:00] <TinHat> lol
[22:01] <ahven> ah, someone woke up :)
[22:01] <ukscone1> been awake for ages, just been busy careing for aa sick wife -- bloody annoying she is too
[22:02] <ahven> less or worse? :)
[22:02] <ukscone1> also trying to track down an email for someone i haven't seen or spoken to in 20 something years
[22:05] <ShiftPlusOne> ahven, anyway, they'll blend in eventually... Canadians don't seem to be complaining now, they just enjoy the perogies.
[22:06] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: yep, we have been independent (again) for just 2 decades, it will take time
[22:06] <TinHat> afk
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[22:14] * xenoxaos is now known as betterthanmrstev
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[22:15] <ahven> http://necrobones.com/atrobots/ anyone remember this? :)
[22:16] <ahven> it wasn't widespread but somehow I got to knew it :P
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[22:17] <ahven> I *think* I'm going to lay out a plan and port it to Java, with no deadline set
[22:18] <ShiftPlusOne> ahven, java? you're what's wrong with society. >=/
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[22:19] * mrsteveman2 is now known as xenoxaos
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[22:21] <ahven> well, I'm thinking of in terms of minimum dependancy of the running OS but I know, that isn't a proper excuse :P
[22:22] <ShiftPlusOne> ah I thought you'd go with "it's not my fault other people don't know how to program in java, I am actually perfect and produce code which is more efficient than the assembly equivilent"-type response
[22:22] <ahven> the original is in Turbo Pascal :)
[22:24] <ahven> I have the possibility of porting it to Free Pascal compatibility, but that choice suits me even less
[22:25] <ShiftPlusOne> why's that?
[22:25] <ShiftPlusOne> lazarus is pretty cross-platform
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[22:26] <ahven> hmm, something new for me :P
[22:30] <ahven> ah, Lazarus is basically an IDE
[22:30] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[22:31] <ukscone1> free pascal is a pain in the butt to bootstrap on an arm device
[22:31] <ukscone1> at least it was last year
[22:32] <ukscone1> i wanted to build it for pxa270 so i could build egsl -- gave up after a week of getting nowhere
[23:24] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:26] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[23:31] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] <PiBot> ukscone| hand over the twiglets
[23:32] * ukscone1 (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:39] * ukscone1 (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:40] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:42] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:42] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Wahey! Sean is here! :D
[23:42] <IT_Sean> I see PiBot is back up and running
[23:43] * ukscone1 (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:46] <ShiftPlusOne> IT_Sean, did you spend the day under the blankets because it's nippy where you are (as some would have us believe)?
[23:48] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:48] <PiBot> ukscone| no i am british we are used to summer just being the third wednesday in august
[23:49] <IT_Sean> ShiftPlusOne, spent the day shoveling snow, actually.
[23:49] <IT_Sean> :/
[23:49] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, your info was inaccurate >=/
[23:50] <ShiftPlusOne> and lol, haven't seen that pibot greeting before. Explains why you people react strange to the sun.
[23:59] <ukscone> ugh weather took cable tv and internet out -- had a tech up a pole in the back yard and my interwebs is about 10KB down and 5KB up :(

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.