#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2011-10-30

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:01] <iMatttt> :s
[0:06] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: which info? the FPC? when i was trying you had to use a specific version of the x86 build to rebuild the x86 build to build the arm version and lazarus also had to be built according to the instructions given for building arm FPC
[0:06] <ukscone> but as i said that was a year or so ago
[0:07] <ukscone> brb gotta boot into linux
[0:07] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[0:13] * TinHat (~puppy@static-87-102-120-146.karoo.KCOM.COM) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:19] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: ?????????????????????????????a???????????????????????????? ?????????????????j?????????????????????????e????????????????w????????????????????b????????????????????????????a??????????????????????)
[0:24] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] <PiBot> ukscone| hand over the twiglets
[0:34] * gav (~gav@host-92-25-62-171.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:35] * gav (~gav@host-92-25-62-171.as13285.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:36] <ShiftPlusOne> wb
[0:37] <ShiftPlusOne> and no I was talking about the other information... you said sean was being lazy under blankets, while he was actually outside shoveling snow like a man.
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[1:17] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: I can still have my goal: The Free Pascal Compiler now can generate byte code for a Java Virtual Machine.
[1:18] <ShiftPlusOne> wow, nice.... but why is that what you're after?
[1:19] <ahven> just compatility, widest audience?
[1:20] <ShiftPlusOne> O_o
[1:20] <ShiftPlusOne> o_O
[1:27] * fuzzyone (~fuzzyone@vaserv/clients/fuzzyone) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:29] <ukscone> http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/win/
[1:33] <ShiftPlusOne> nice, but it doesn't prove evolution
[1:33] <ahven> half past 3 in the morning is a bit late, nn
[1:34] <ShiftPlusOne> or early
[1:34] <ShiftPlusOne> maybe when you wake up you'll come to your senses and avoid java. 'night
[1:39] <DaQatz> It's like a blizzard outside.
[1:39] <DaQatz> >.>
[1:39] <DaQatz> IT'S STILL OCTOBER!
[1:39] <ShiftPlusOne> nice
[1:41] <ShiftPlusOne> It's nice and sunny outside here =)
[1:41] <ShiftPlusOne> I am guessing... I don't go outside
[1:41] <ShiftPlusOne> !w
[1:41] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne: in Seaford, VIC on Sun Oct 30 15:30:00 2011. Temp 12??C. Condition: Rain, Humidity: 100%.
[1:41] <PiBot> Mon: High 15??C Low 7??C :Condition Cloudy
[1:41] <PiBot> Tue: High 17??C Low 12??C :Condition Partly Sunny
[1:41] <PiBot> Wed: High 17??C Low 10??C :Condition Chance of Rain
[1:41] <PiBot> Sun: High 17??C Low 10??C :Condition Chance of Rain
[1:41] <ShiftPlusOne> ok maybe not
[1:47] <DaQatz> Not nice
[1:47] <DaQatz> Snow is a head ache
[1:47] <DaQatz> !w
[1:47] <PiBot> DaQatz: in Berwick, ME on Sun Oct 30 03:51:00 2011. Temp 32??F. Condition: Light snow, Humidity: 96%. Later 41??F - 31??F. Condition: Rain
[1:47] <PiBot> Sun: High 43??F Low 20??F :Condition Chance of Showers
[1:47] <PiBot> Mon: High 47??F Low 25??F :Condition Mostly Sunny
[1:47] <PiBot> Tue: High 52??F Low 29??F :Condition Clear
[1:47] <DaQatz> Light?
[1:47] <DaQatz> ... 3 inches in the last hour
[1:47] <ukscone> !w 11220
[1:47] <PiBot> ukscone: in Brooklyn, NY on Sat Oct 29 22:51:00 2011. Temp 2??C. Condition: Light snow, Humidity: 96%. Later 5??C - -2??C. Condition: Snow
[1:48] <DaQatz> Just glad it's not very cold.
[1:48] <ukscone> it's about 3 inches of slush here ready to freeze and make an ice rink
[1:48] <DaQatz> Oi
[1:48] <DaQatz> Snow plow just went by
[1:48] <DaQatz> That part is good
[1:50] <ShiftPlusOne> I, for one, like snow >=/
[1:51] <DaQatz> I spent way to much time in snow to like it.
[2:22] <Skummel> I'm norwegian, I'm used to snow. It used to be fun, now it's only cold and wet...
[2:28] <DaQatz> Love that Halloween weather http://i.imgur.com/TuQay.jpg
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[2:55] <Thorn_> its november tomorrow is it out yet??????????
[3:02] * DaQatz (~DB@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:02] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[4:03] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:04] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:04] <PiBot> ukscone| no i am british we are used to summer just being the third wednesday in august
[4:22] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56ad.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[4:36] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:36] * DaQatz (~DB@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[4:38] <DaQatz> Snow ._.
[4:38] <DaQatz> Really messes with power here
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[5:03] <DaQatz> Sigh
[5:04] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:05] <DaQatz> Getting some clue why I dislike the snow?
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[13:17] <canard`> The December release date on the wiki, is that just rampent speculation?
[13:36] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:02] <ahven> unofficial date, they *hope* to get it ready for sale on end of nov/start of dec.
[14:13] <ukscone> they are still on track for before jan 1st though
[14:14] <ukscone> whether it is nearer nov 30th or dec 31st is still up in the air though
[14:23] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56ad.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:25] <ShiftPlusOne> I wouldn't put much faith in release dates. It's safer to assume that it will be available when it's ready, to avoid dissapointment.
[14:26] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: yup -- it'll be ready when it's ready and it'll be hard to get one in the first batch anyway so why worry about it
[14:27] <ahven> I have lot of other projects to keep me occupied :)
[14:27] <ukscone> i have to wait for some other stuff to arrive from the uk before i can use the raspi anyway
[14:28] <ukscone> and my fpga dev board should be here by next friday and i'll be messing with that for a few weeks anyway
[14:28] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, but will it be first come, first serve or do they have the first batch set aside for certain groups/organisations?
[14:29] <ShiftPlusOne> what do you need the fpga board for? O_o
[14:29] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: first come, first served except for their ones allocated to more distro and known s/w devs and for the press
[14:29] <ahven> I wouldn't mind if schools have priority
[14:29] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: the fpga will becoe my main 8bit micro emulation device (and for messing with arduino sketches
[14:30] <ukscone> ahven: schools won't get them until next year from another run
[14:30] <ahven> yep, remembered, this is currently a development board for the time being
[14:31] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, isn't an fpga a bit of an expensive solution for the purpose?
[14:31] <ukscone> we get it first so we can buld and test s/w and write docs for them so schools have stuff that'll run straight away
[14:31] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: yes and no
[14:33] <ShiftPlusOne> and yeah, I know the first batch in intended for hobbyists, but I am just worried that's it's not first come, first served. Though knowing me I'll miss it when it goes live and miss out anyway.
[14:33] <ukscone> it's flexible, i can emulate several different machines and it also runs up to 4 simultainious arduino sketches
[14:33] <ukscone> well it's first come, first served with the proviso that the first 2 weeks it's buy one, give one too so they are double priced
[14:34] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[14:35] <ShiftPlusOne> that's good I suppose
[14:36] <ukscone> well never played with arduino in my life so it'll be something to do especially as gameduino has some 80s games ported to it -- manic miner
[14:37] <ShiftPlusOne> why not skip arduino and dive into microcontroller programming and pcb design directly?
[14:40] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: i will be using it to learn vhdl too
[14:40] <ukscone> i need to write a 6845crtc core for the emulation stuff
[14:40] <ShiftPlusOne> the fpga, not arduino, right?
[14:40] <ukscone> but once it's done it'll be my camputers lynx, tandy model3, grundy newbrain......
[14:40] <ukscone> yup the fpga
[14:41] <ukscone> the arduino stuff is just for fun and to see what all the fuss is about
[14:41] <ShiftPlusOne> ok good, I was confused there for a second =)
[14:41] <ShiftPlusOne> the arduno fuss is about being able to put ideas in action without electrical engineering knowledge and just basic programming
[14:42] <ukscone> but that's cheating
[14:42] <ukscone> hardware is supposed to be hard
[14:43] <ShiftPlusOne> That's why a lot of people get all angry about arduino projects. But it makes it easy for beginners to get into it.
[14:43] <ukscone> yeah the comments on hack-a-day sometimes are funny from both the pro and con groups
[14:43] <ShiftPlusOne> You might start by making flashing LEDs and then expand to something more usefull which will require some research and learning.
[14:44] <ukscone> i think probably the best thing they did with the arduino was "standardize" the layout for add-ons -- pity they used non-standard spacing though
[14:45] <ShiftPlusOne> I've got this book called "The Elements of Computing Systems: Building a Modern Computer from First Principles" by Nisan and Schocken which you might be interested in
[14:46] <ShiftPlusOne> I've learned more from that book than from 4 years of university.
[14:46] <ukscone> you are probably not old enough to remember the TAB books -- building your own 4004 computer, building your own z80 computer......
[14:46] <ukscone> those were always fun
[14:47] <ReggieUK> I remember my dad building his sinclair calculator
[14:47] <ShiftPlusOne> Nope, my first computer was a proper IBM computer running DOS and windows 3.1... then windows 95 came out shortly afterwards, so the whole z80 thing is something I missed completly.
[14:48] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: you missed the fun of the cp/m days
[14:49] <ShiftPlusOne> But yeah, this book isn't just about building, it's about designing. They give you basic logic gates and explain how they work then give you information about how the parts you need to design should work. Then it's up to you to actually designt he adders (they explain 2's compliment binary system), multiplexers, memory and so on.
[14:50] <ShiftPlusOne> It's still on my todo list to build a physical implementation using off the shelf parts though. Don't know know then I'll get time for that though =(
[14:54] <ShiftPlusOne> Just wondering, which fpga board did you get?
[14:54] <ukscone> cybercortex
[14:54] <ukscone> it's a spartan 500k iirc
[14:55] <ShiftPlusOne> ah so that's the one on kickstarter?
[14:55] <ukscone> http://pastebin.com/ZdNiUBk8
[14:55] <ukscone> yup
[14:56] <ShiftPlusOne> ah that's a good deal, I think.
[14:56] <ukscone> it shoudl have been here last month but there was a problem that caused them to have to be reworked and also a timing problem with the sram
[14:56] <ShiftPlusOne> shame that the funding is over
[14:57] <ukscone> yup, he is planning to make them to sell once he gets this lot out and also recovers as it's been a hard slog where wverything that could go wrong did go wrong
[14:57] <ukscone> i.e. dell told him to change the name
[14:57] <ukscone> so he had to redo the art work
[14:57] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah I am surprised that the raspberry pi project is going as smoothly as it is, but I guess that's all those years of experiense they have.
[14:58] <ukscone> then he asked for a change in 2 resistors and they changed 7 of them so had to be reworked after they were sent back
[14:58] <ukscone> then there seemed to be a timing problem in the s/w that was too close to the sram timing threshold so that had to be fixed
[14:58] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, manufactured in china then?
[14:58] <ukscone> yup most kickstarter projects seem to be built in china or taiwan
[14:59] <ShiftPlusOne> Well Taiwan is probably better than most places around the world to have stuff made
[15:00] <ShiftPlusOne> Do you know any other fpga boards currently available to buy which you could recommend?
[15:01] <ukscone> unfortunatly not -- the one i really wanted a few years ago was discontinued a week after i finally had the money to buy one
[15:02] <ukscone> i had ignored them until i found out about the cyber cortex
[15:03] <ShiftPlusOne> alright, thanks
[15:04] <ukscone> i don't think they are that expensive though if you don't go for the top of the line dev boards -- think i did see another one recently though, can't remember where -- might have bene kickstarter but not sure
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[15:11] <ShiftPlusOne> lol... I asked about fpga boards in ##electronics and someone recommended the raspberry pi >_<
[15:11] <ahven> :D
[15:13] <ukscone> :)
[15:16] <ShiftPlusOne> de0-nano it is then.
[15:19] <DaQatz> lol
[16:07] <Thorn_> it eet out yet
[16:11] <ShiftPlusOne> that depends on your definition of 'eet'
[16:11] <Thorn_> the raspberry pee
[16:12] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... it would be pronounced that way in many countries =/
[16:12] <Thorn_> marketing fail
[16:12] <ShiftPlusOne> sure, but in those countries pee wouldn't mean anything other than pi
[16:13] <Thorn_> yeah, but i'm going to make sure everyone i know here in the uk pronounces it pee aswell now
[16:13] <Thorn_> it just gives a whole new layer
[16:15] * NIN102 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:16] <ukscone> i like this /. comment :) Well, a cluster of raspberry pies is called a local parish council fundraiser.
[16:16] <ReggieUK> awesome, that means we'll all be able to spot the dullards if you do that Thorn_
[16:17] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[16:19] <Thorn_> are you claiming i spread dullardry?
[16:19] <ukscone> Thorn_: you said it
[16:19] <ukscone> :)
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[16:38] * Jaac (justme@unaffiliated/jaac) Quit (Quit: Did you see WHAT god just did to us Mannn (Fear and loathing in Las Vegas))
[16:46] <ReggieUK> Not yet you don't Thorn_ but I can certainly see you potential :D
[16:46] <ReggieUK> your*
[16:47] <Thorn_> wow
[16:47] <Thorn_> been keeping up with HD prices?
[16:47] <Thorn_> cheapest 2tb i can find now is ??114
[16:47] <Thorn_> last month that was ??54...
[16:48] <Thorn_> didnt expect the price hikes to hit so hard
[16:56] <ukscone> yeah -- i had my main external hd die a fortnight ago and to replace it will be twice the cost of the larger one i bought in august
[16:56] <ukscone> which was larger too
[16:56] <Thorn_> crazy prices
[16:57] <ukscone> paid $90 for a 2TB and to replace the 1.5TB that died will cost $140
[16:57] <ukscone> $140 was the cheapest i could find but it's a crap one
[16:57] <ukscone> a decent one is more like $170
[16:58] <Thorn_> i had 8x 2tb's lined up for purchase within the next few weeks
[16:58] <Thorn_> ... not anymore...
[16:59] <ShiftPlusOne> 114 pounds? where the hell are you looking?
[16:59] <Thorn_> every shop in the uk so far
[16:59] <Thorn_> even amazon is the same
[16:59] <Thorn_> it's amazing how far prices hiked in 2 weeks from the factories dying
[17:00] <ShiftPlusOne> I am seeing lots of 2tb HDDs on ebay for a lot less than that.
[17:03] <DaQatz> Harddrive prices went up
[17:03] <DaQatz> What happened?
[17:04] <ReggieUK> someone made up a story that <insert random explanation here> and hdd prices went up
[17:04] <ReggieUK> the price of magnetism or something, went through the roof
[17:10] <Thorn_> the factories were flooded 2 weeks ago
[17:11] <ReggieUK> ahh
[17:12] <ReggieUK> all the eggs in one basket then?
[17:12] <Thorn_> western digital got flooded
[17:12] <Thorn_> the other manufacturers put their prices up to profit on panic buying i think
[17:12] <Thorn_> because they're all insanely high
[17:13] <ReggieUK> yeah, so the only people with a possible valid reason is WD
[17:13] <ReggieUK> everyone else is taking advantage
[17:13] <DaQatz> Lol
[17:13] <DaQatz> That's down rigth funny
[17:14] <ReggieUK> which?
[17:14] <DaQatz> The 10 lines above
[17:15] <Thorn_> its not funny at all
[17:15] <DaQatz> Well above when I said "lol"
[17:15] <Thorn_> now i'm 16TB short :(
[17:15] <ReggieUK> it's funny in a 'you've got to laugh or else you'll cry' kind of way?
[17:16] <Thorn_> cryin on the inside
[17:16] <ReggieUK> screaming on the outside
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[18:04] <Thorn_> ah
[18:04] <Thorn_> a nice informative post from ccl
[18:04] <Thorn_> http://www.cclonline.com/article/217/Blog/Hard-Drives/Flooding-in-Thailand-massively-disrupts-hard-drive-availability/
[18:05] <Thorn_> seems seagate etc did get hit
[18:16] <ReggieUK> it's still less than 25% of the hdd production, so why should they double or even triple in price?
[18:17] <Thorn_> it's expected to double again by dec/jan
[18:17] <Thorn_> so that's 6x
[18:17] <Thorn_> but yeah that raised my eye too
[18:17] <ReggieUK> and the shortages aren't expected to hit til q1 NEXT year
[18:17] <Thorn_> yep
[18:18] <Thorn_> it takes 6-12 months to retool a factory like that after they can actually access it
[18:18] <Thorn_> and it'll be january before the water levels drop
[18:18] <Thorn_> crazy
[18:18] <ReggieUK> ah well, at least SSDs are looking more attractive
[18:18] <Thorn_> 2012 - it's the end of the year
[18:18] <Thorn_> erm
[18:18] <Thorn_> end of the world
[18:18] <Thorn_> for harddrives atleast
[18:18] <Thorn_> yeah it's not funny when you typo it
[18:18] <ReggieUK> it's still some ways off, like, not right now
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[18:42] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Wahey! Sean is here! :D
[18:42] <IT_Sean> join #68kmla
[18:42] <IT_Sean> whoops...
[18:42] <IT_Sean> fo'got the /
[18:44] <ukscone> IT_Sean: is it cold enough for you?
[18:45] <IT_Sean> tooo fookin cold
[18:45] <IT_Sean> and too much crunchy rain
[18:46] <DaQatz> I dislike fluffy rain more.
[18:50] <ukscone> i have to go to downtown to the mall in a bit
[18:50] <ukscone> so far got 4 layers on and about to add a coat and scarf
[18:50] <Thorn_> its roasting here
[18:50] <Thorn_> 23C room temp
[18:50] <Thorn_> too hot
[18:51] <ukscone> we do have all the windows open to let in a bit of fresh air
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[19:41] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-131-241.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:45] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:20] * ^robertj (~robertj@97-81-71-34.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:23] <^robertj> are there any POE breakout cables that would pair well with the B model?
[21:29] <^robertj> also, will the B model be able to PXE boot so you don't need a card?
[21:29] <ahven> you need a card one way or another
[21:29] <ahven> the GPU boots directly from the card
[21:30] <ahven> you could possibly use grub for that booting job
[21:36] <^robertj> will details on the production run contract be public?
[21:36] <^robertj> mainly volume?
[21:38] <ahven> atleast I have understood so
[21:38] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[21:39] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:43] <^robertj> $35 is just a nutso price-point, i guess with case, power brick, and card you will be sitting $45, but still
[21:43] <^robertj> wonder if they are going to take bulk orders from private market
[21:48] <ahven> $25/$35 IS the bulk order price, even for 1 piece
[21:49] <ahven> as liz has told in september: "We can???t offer any bulk discounts because we are selling so close to cost. You will be able to get a shipping discount on large orders, though."
[21:49] <^robertj> ahven, I just wanted to know if they were going to say "no, we are not set up to take an order of 30k units for your for-profit endevour at this time"
[21:50] <^robertj> which is completely fair, I guess they real question is are they making even an itty bitty little tiny profit off each unit
[21:51] <ahven> in the long run, 30k would be possible, but not right away at the start
[21:51] <ahven> "When we launch, you won???t be able to order units in such large numbers ??? we expect demand to be very high initially, so we will have to put an upper limit on how many you can buy in one go for an initial period. Later on, though, large orders shouldn???t be a problem."
[21:51] <^robertj> where is that from btw?
[21:52] <ahven> from the faq comments, quoting liz
[21:52] <ahven> as she is one of the official voices
[22:03] * canard` is now known as canard
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[23:07] <ukscone> evening all
[23:08] <Thorn_> night
[23:08] <ukscone> ugh what is wrong with these british pirates -- downton abbey is still not up on the trackers
[23:09] * Thorn_ throws a tea plate at ukscone
[23:11] <ukscone> can you at least throw some chelsea buns at me please they don't hurt when hit by them
[23:11] <Thorn_> never heard of a chelsea bun probably before my time
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