#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2011-11-02

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:08] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Well hello Sean. How are you today?
[0:11] * bandit12 (~AndChat@host-92-25-132-153.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] * bandit12 (~AndChat@host-92-25-132-153.as13285.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:40] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:44] * tti (tero@irkki.in) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-218-51-62.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:43] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56ad.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[3:08] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[3:28] * Thorn_ (~thorn@osirion.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:29] * Thorn_ (~thorn@osirion.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:29] <PiBot> Thorn_| <Thorn_> omg its november in 9.5hrs is it out yet??
[3:55] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:44] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[7:32] * weuxel (~norman@2a01:4f8:100:9442::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:46] * diggy (~diggy@78-203-169.adsl.cyta.gr) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[7:48] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[8:05] * tempVariable (~will@resnet-50-10.dorm.utexas.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:19] * tempVariable (~will@resnet-50-10.dorm.utexas.edu) has left #raspberrypi
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[9:37] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[9:52] * jzu (~jzu@camisole.opentrust.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[10:23] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:28] * wcchandler (~william@cpe-069-134-244-245.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (*.net *.split)
[11:28] * Guest94139 (yang@boneym.linuxshell.org) Quit (*.net *.split)
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[11:28] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
[11:28] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
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[11:29] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
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[11:29] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) Quit (*.net *.split)
[11:29] * ReimuHak_ is now known as ReimuHakurei
[11:32] * monoxyde (~monoxyde@strangulates.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * ReimuHakurei is now known as 45PAAJZOK
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[11:33] * ctyler (~chris@global.proximity.on.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:33] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:33] * FireFly (firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:33] * vgrade (~martinbro@cpc2-nrte22-2-0-cust128.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * Guest94139 (yang@boneym.linuxshell.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:33] * DaQatz (~DB@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:33] * diggy128 (~diggy@78-207-135.adsl.cyta.gr) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:33] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-218-51-62.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-39-180.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * stasis (~stasis@209.141.55.242) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * joukio (~joukio@82-171-18-219.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * Skummel (~Mats@146.247.209.127) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * ahven (~ahven@jutukas.saarlane.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * Byan (byan@sekhmet.lug.mtu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:33] <PiBot> Thorn_| <Thorn_> omg its november in 9.5hrs is it out yet??
[11:34] * friggle (~friggle@li60-24.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:42] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, one of our sponsors are experiencing some routing issues -- as a result we are missing a few servers, have a messed up rotation, no services and no web presence. Hopefully we'll return to some normality soon. Thank you for your patience and have a good day (or night, if you're Australian!)
[11:51] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:03] * monoxyde is now known as Guest91641
[12:07] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[12:09] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:40] * Guest94139 is now known as yang
[12:41] * kcj (~casey@118-93-102-32.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:43] * kcj (~casey@118-93-102-32.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Changing host)
[12:43] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:43] * yang is now known as Guest79966
[12:46] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[12:52] * Guest79966 (yang@boneym.linuxshell.org) Quit (Changing host)
[12:52] * Guest79966 (yang@freenode/sponsor/cacert.assurer.yang) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:59] * 45PAAJZOK (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[13:00] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[13:00] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] <PiBot> ukscone| hand over the twiglets
[13:05] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:05] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Wahey! Sean is here! :D
[13:40] * sdx1 (sdx@newelite1.bshellz.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:40] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:41] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:47] * PaulW_cdot (~Paul@142.204.133.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:57] <ukscone> hmmm decisions decisions. just got a freepcb coupon code from dangerous prototypes. which pcb to choose?
[14:05] <RobinJ> pcb?
[14:15] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:17] <ukscone> RobinJ: pcb = printed circuit board
[14:21] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:14] <RobinJ> ah
[15:17] <IT_Sean> My hands are killing me... I had to make about a dozen RJ45 crimps this morning.
[15:18] <IT_Sean> and the crimper we have is crap
[15:18] <IT_Sean> I wish i hadn't left my good one at my old job :/
[15:22] <DaQatz> That sucks.
[15:22] <DaQatz> Maybe you should get another one.
[15:22] <IT_Sean> I keep meaning to.
[15:37] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-218-51-62.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[15:39] * leighbb (~leigh@2002:561b:423c:ac10:230:bdff:fe6a:eb31) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:22] <piofcube> One of these days I might get a chance to spend a bit time chatting in here LOL
[16:25] <IT_Sean> what's stopping you now?
[16:25] <piofcube> Working on a spreadsheet on another PC :S
[16:26] <piofcube> Hi BTW ;-)
[16:27] <IT_Sean> hi.
[16:27] <IT_Sean> also... spreadsheets are boring. We are more fun
[16:28] <piofcube> You got that right.
[16:32] <IT_Sean> That can be our motto! "#rasberrypi. More fun than a spreadsheet!"
[16:32] <piofcube> I was thinking... Raspberry Pi... ARMed and dange... educational ;)
[16:33] <IT_Sean> I like that as well
[16:37] <DaQatz> !welcome_add IT_Sean <IT_Sean> That can be our motto! "#rasberrypi. More fun than a spreadsheet!"
[16:38] * ChanServ changes topic to 'currently "unofficial" discussion channel for the RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ the $25 computer -- FAQs: http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=8 -- Wiki & Specs: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard -- logs available at http://srv.datagutt1.com/ -- more fun than a spreadsheet'
[16:39] <IT_Sean> HAHAHAHA!
[16:40] <IT_Sean> :D
[16:40] * ChanServ changes topic to 'currently "unofficial" discussion channel for the RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ the $25 computer -- FAQs: http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=8 -- Wiki & Specs: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard -- logs available at http://srv.datagutt1.com/ -- More fun than a spreadsheet, Tastier than chocolate dipped bacon'
[16:43] <traeak> man ppl who have 4wd vehicles are just brainless idiots when it comes to driving
[16:44] <ukscone> what about those with wd40 veehicles?
[16:45] <traeak> saw a jeep grand cherokee wipe out
[16:52] <IT_Sean> some people think that a 4x4 makes them invincible
[16:53] <IT_Sean> Those people are called "idiots"
[17:00] <traeak> yup
[17:00] <traeak> just sad here about 3/4 of the people were driving them
[17:26] * Guest79966 is now known as yang
[17:29] * IT_Sean tosses traeak a "Fun SIze" candy bar
[17:31] * ukscone intercepts said candy bar -- touchdown
[17:31] <ukscone> and where is the fun in fun sized it should be miser-size fun would be one that is about 6 foot long
[17:31] <IT_Sean> exactly!
[17:31] <IT_Sean> "'fun' size" candy bars are crap.
[17:32] <IT_Sean> they are less fun than the full sized ones.
[17:32] <ukscone> http://www.pimpthatsnack.com/project/332/2 now that is fun sized
[17:32] <IT_Sean> Although, i guess if they called them "bullshit size!" they wouldn't sell very many
[17:32] <IT_Sean> do i want another funsized 3 musketeers bar?
[17:32] <ukscone> yes
[17:32] <IT_Sean> do you know, i think you may be right.
[17:32] * IT_Sean has another one
[17:34] <IT_Sean> that was tasty.
[17:41] * ctyler is trying to hack the glamor X server to run on the Pi
[17:43] <traeak> what\'s glamor?
[17:43] <traeak> i wonder how easy it might be to hack the binary userspace driver for the GPU
[17:43] <ctyler> x-on-gl
[17:43] <DaQatz> An X server that uses 2d hardware accel
[17:44] <ctyler> man, openGL and X are a maze of twisty little passages built on top of each other recursively
[17:44] <DaQatz> Yeah
[18:02] <ctyler> su
[18:03] <traeak> http://tinyurl.com/3mqdh2c
[18:03] <traeak> there you go
[18:03] <traeak> only about 8x more expensive than the 'pi
[18:09] <friggle> ctyler: how's it going?
[18:10] <friggle> I had been interested in glamor, but hadn't noticed they had GLES support before I heard you folks were looking at it
[18:10] <friggle> DaQatz: more precisely, an X device-specific driver that just runs on GL/GLES.
[18:12] <ctyler> friggle: I'm just getting rolling, it's daunting to get my head around the various bits they have here. So far no brick walls though.
[18:13] <friggle> there was of course all the XGL stuff years back, but it died off (Nvidia had a paper/position piece in 2006 that pretty much slated it). Of course something like Glamor makes it *way* easier to get decent X support on something like the Raspberry Pi
[18:14] <ctyler> the other option is a traditional 2d engine-specific driver, which is straightforward but not fast to implement
[18:14] <ctyler> and the X devs I've talked to won't touch it with a 10' pole since the GPU side is closed.
[18:15] <friggle> yeah, and I suppose there are potential issues with that stuff not currently being exposed to Linux apps
[18:15] <friggle> yeah, Glamor seems like the best approach in that respect
[18:15] <ctyler> the separation between the sides seems pretty clean though, you just lob stuff over the wall and things happen
[18:16] <friggle> Broadcom's position is "talk to us in GLES/EGL" which seems not unreasonable. You'd think it would be trivial to build a fast X desktop on top of that, but it seems it's not quite there yet.
[18:16] <friggle> as in, Glamor hasn't been merged upstream with X, or if it has it was quite recently I think?
[18:16] <ctyler> Sept 27
[18:16] <friggle> ctyler: have you looked at any of the KMS/libgbm etc stuff?
[18:17] <ctyler> and it's in pretty active development (read: churn)
[18:18] <ctyler> problem is that a lot of the functionality hasn't been tied to standard interfaces yet, e.g., audio is there but not alsa; opengl is there but not mesa; modesetting is there (Eben says, I haven't seen that yet) but not kms. It won't be hard but will take a bit of time.
[18:18] <friggle> ctyler: yeah. In the drivers I have at least there's openWFC but not openWFD (and wfd seems closer to the KMS view of things)
[18:19] <friggle> indeed
[18:19] <friggle> ctyler: have you looked at audio at all? I'm assuming an ALSA module, pulseaudio module, or failing that an SDL_audio backend using the audioplay interface wouldn't be *that* hard (but I know little about audio)
[18:20] <ctyler> that's my assumption too, but haven't had time to dig into it, and I'm not an alsa person
[18:21] <ctyler> if this stuff is exposed on standard interfaces, the community won't really care about the GPU side, I think, but there will be a lot of noise until we get there
[18:22] <friggle> ctyler: I agree. It's a shame that graphics on Linux sucks a little unless you have a mesa driver or invest loads of engineering effort like Nvidia/ATI (and can force people to invest engineering effort into being compatible with you in turn).
[18:23] <friggle> Glamor seems like an important step in the right direction. It would be great if the linux community could say "give us EGL, GLES, KMS, (presumably some buffer management API too) and everything should just work"
[18:24] <ctyler> I'm not sweating KMS right now, I'll be happy to hardcode 1080p for a rough-draft 0.1
[18:26] <ctyler> friggle: that would be a near-perfect scenario :-)
[18:26] <friggle> ctyler: any thoughts on DRM buffers (which can be shared between processes)? presumably glamor wants eglCreateDRMImageMESA
[18:26] <friggle> ctyler: what can I say, I'm an idealist :)
[18:28] <ctyler> looks like connecting that up to the Pi's buffer stuff will be one of the fun bits
[18:29] <friggle> does the eglCreateGlobalImageBRCM provide enough of an interface do you think?
[18:30] <ctyler> still reading code and getting my mind around the interactions
[18:30] <friggle> yes, the same. It's been a steep learning curve for me
[18:35] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56ad.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:37] <ctyler> I keep forgetting to set the clock, and get certificate errors, ugg.
[18:38] <friggle> ntpdate on ifup :) (or at least, that's the Debian way)
[18:40] <ctyler> yeah, just hadn't got to it yet :-S
[18:40] <ctyler> oooh, hard lock.
[18:41] <friggle> ctyler: do you have smsc95xx.turbo_mode=N in your /boot/cmdline.txt?
[18:42] <ctyler> don't think so. Haven't needed it on this board yet, it's been quite stable so far (and with rootfs on USB disk).
[18:42] <ctyler> booted, checking
[18:44] <ctyler> do you have s/w reboot working?
[18:44] <friggle> nope, haven't looked at that at all
[18:45] <ctyler> it's way, way down the todo list, but it would be useful
[18:45] <ctyler> haven't had time to poke at it
[18:46] <friggle> ctyler: are you still on 2.6.35 or are you looking at newer kernels?
[18:46] <ctyler> 2.6.35 atm, but have to go to at least .36 soon because of systemd in F15
[18:47] <ctyler> Eben was talking about kernel patchset freeze soon
[18:47] <friggle> yeah, I think I pointed to a few patches on the forum which allegedly you can cherrypick on top of 2.6.35 relatively easily for systemd support
[18:47] <ctyler> when time permits I'd like to try 3.0.4, but time doesn't permit half of what I want it to these days
[18:48] <vgrade> we have Mer booting using systemd with stock kernel with a few CONFIG_ changes
[18:48] <friggle> ctyler: ah right. I'd better ping him again with the patches I wanted cherrypicked. Basically the patch wiring up accept4 and some fixes for smsc95xx MAC address.
[18:48] <ctyler> vgrade: what's your boot footprint like with systemd?
[18:49] <vgrade> tiny, will boot the board tonight for some testing will let you know exec numbers
[18:49] <ctyler> friggle: we need to upstream as soon as possible
[18:50] <ctyler> vgrade: I'm concerned that it looks like 20+MB larger than via upstart
[18:52] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@165.139.179.10) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:54] <vgrade> I will let you know, boot time is also a factor, http://elinux.org/images/b/b3/Elce11_koen.pdf. We are at 24 seconds at the moment with Mer. the accept4 changes are mentioned in this presentation
[18:56] <ctyler> F13's at about 23-24 seconds too. ~11MB with no services, ~17 with sshd+cups.
[18:59] * ctyler head to meeting
[19:01] <friggle> ctyler: I'm off too. I sent you a few /msg. Later
[19:02] <vgrade> 24 seconds to qmlviewer start, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fouPJRLygNQ
[19:03] <friggle> vgrade: and Qt are saying 7 seconds to command line with 'Taku' IIRC
[19:03] <friggle> I'm sure there's *lots* that can be done with boot time
[19:03] <vgrade> that link I poseed earlier gets the beagle/panda down to about 5
[19:05] <friggle> I hear RiscOS boots incredibly quickly on the raspberry pi
[19:05] <friggle> but of course, that's hardly and apples to apples comparison :)
[19:17] * MrCurious_ (~MrCurious@ip72-197-185-225.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:21] <IT_Sean> 3/clear
[19:31] * robbiet480 (~robbiet48@robbie.io) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:41] <DaQatz> Nice vgrade
[19:58] * TachiH (~TachiH@host-92-25-98-44.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:08] <ahven> any flowchart suggestions? Kivio is a suggested item but isn't available (yet) in the latest KOffice
[20:11] <ahven> Dia?
[20:21] * obarthelemy (~oonlan@bne75-2-82-66-97-6.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:21] <obarthelemy> HI GUYS
[20:22] <obarthelemy> Is Liz playing with Mingle again ? I'm getting "error establishing a database connection" on the forum
[20:32] <ahven> or are they benchmarking their live servers? :)
[20:39] * gomiboy (~frodone@ppp-129-130.21-151.libero.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:44] <ukscone> hi obarthelemy -- seems fine here at least the .org does
[20:46] <Thorn_> how bout they include a free usb->microusb cable with the early orders? :P
[20:46] <IT_Sean> why?
[20:46] <obarthelemy> yep, the glitches went away.. and hi UK.. I'm moving to our private chat right now ^^
[20:46] <Thorn_> because its free and free stuff is good
[20:47] <IT_Sean> Any idea when they are going to start taking orders?
[20:50] <Thorn_> yes
[20:50] <Thorn_> i already ordered mine
[20:58] <ctyler> Thorn_: you're just evil, do you know the kind of panic you can cause with a statement like that?!
[21:01] <Thorn_> apparently not as much as posting on slashdot that they will only be sold to programmers
[21:05] <IT_Sean> you arse
[21:05] <Thorn_> huh?
[21:21] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:29] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@165.139.179.10) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:33] <MrCurious_> page said dec, first come first served, programmers first please.
[21:36] * Beakster (~Beakster@69-196-182-59.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:38] * diggy128 is now known as diggy
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[21:42] * diggy128 is now known as diggy
[21:48] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-71-194-107-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[22:01] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:14] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:33] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: ?????????????????????????????a???????????????????????????? ?????????????????j?????????????????????????e????????????????w????????????????????b????????????????????????????a??????????????????????)
[22:38] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:05] * gomiboy (~frodone@ppp-129-130.21-151.libero.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[23:28] * bandit12 (~AndChat@178.107.75.230) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:37] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:38] * obarthelemy (~oonlan@bne75-2-82-66-97-6.fbx.proxad.net) has left #raspberrypi
[23:38] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:49] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@165.139.179.10) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)

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