#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-11-03

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:20] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:23] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[5:55] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56ad.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[8:17] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-39-180.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:19] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-186-204.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:19] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[8:31] * robbiet480 (~robbiet48@robbie.io) has left #raspberrypi
[9:43] <kcj> Why does PiBot keep doing ^that^?
[10:06] <acfrazier> ugh
[10:06] <acfrazier> kicking myself for not buying some hdds before the bubble.
[10:11] <kcj> Huh?
[10:11] <kcj> Are they rising in price?
[10:23] <Lerc> Bunch of Hard drive factories got flooded.
[10:27] <kcj> :(
[10:28] <Dagger3> the interesting thing is that we only lost about 25% production capacity
[10:28] <Dagger3> yet prices have at least doubled
[10:29] <Dagger3> (rather, the interesting part will be seeing if people still continue to claim that minor drops in production capacity /don't/ lead to massive price increases)
[11:07] <ahven> yep, this is a wrong time for bying drives :P
[11:22] <royh> what is the actual production cost of a device?
[11:24] <royh> i mean, from the article at geek.com (http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/raspberry-pi-planning-incremental-launch-of-25-pc-in-december-2011112/) it seems the cost are higher than 25 USD, am i right?
[11:25] <royh> s/the cost/&s/
[11:32] <jzu> hmmm
[11:32] <jzu> where did you read this in the article?
[11:42] <jzu> anyway the only place to get real information is the raspberrypi.org site
[11:53] <ctyler> eben has repeatedly said that they have a margin
[11:54] <ctyler> so production costs are less than the sale price.
[12:36] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:48] <royh> from the part where it states that "raspberry pi is a charity" and it having cash-flow issues by moving too many devices.
[12:50] <royh> nice to hear that by the way. i'll definitely be in line for one when it releases :)
[12:51] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[12:52] <acfrazier> I'm excited anyway, because I have many many many many many things planned for this
[12:52] <acfrazier> but it's hard to do anything unless I hold one in my hand
[12:52] <kcj> Is there an rss feed for raspberrypi.org?
[12:53] <acfrazier> if there is, I need to set it up to push to my device
[12:53] <acfrazier> I want to know the SECOND it goes on sale
[12:53] <acfrazier> because otherwise I will miss out
[12:53] <acfrazier> this is one of those things that can earn the title of "hotter than the lastest Apple product"
[12:57] <friggle> royh: the cash flow thing is just that you have to put up money in order to make the devices
[12:58] <friggle> royh: so if you went to them and asked for 100k devices, they'd need a loan or other funding of some sort in order to have enough working capital to buy the parts etc
[12:58] <friggle> the 10k run is a few hundred k working capital, which is being put up by the founders
[12:58] <Dagger3> the homepage lists several feeds; Firefox oh-so-usefully shows them in Bookmarks > Subscribe to This Page
[13:04] <royh> friggle: that makes perfect sense. i just got the impression (one mans oppinion) that they where sold below production cost.
[13:06] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:06] <PiBot> IT_Sean| As long as the invisible man didn't leave invisible skidmarks on the photocopier, i don't really care.
[13:06] <kcj> So no RSS then?
[13:07] <friggle> kcj: http://www.raspberrypi.org/feed
[13:07] <Dagger3> ... I just said: there are several feeds, if you're on Firefox you can see them in Bookmarks > Subscribe to This Page
[13:07] <kcj> Yay!
[13:09] <kcj> Dagger3, Sorry, couldn't seed the forest for trees.
[13:09] <kcj> see*
[13:11] <Dagger3> at least you didn't quit 4 seconds after asking the question
[13:11] <Dagger3> people do that way too often :/
[13:15] <IT_Sean> I hate that
[13:21] <royh> so these kits.. if i understood correctly you have to assemble them yourself, right? are there any guidelines to that?
[13:22] <IT_Sean> what kits?
[13:24] * IT_Sean pokes royh
[13:25] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:32] <royh> IT_Sean: sorry.. lots of channels here and the highlighter doesn't flare up on just mentioninig my name (it has to be in the beginning ala irssi vanilla)
[13:33] <royh> "Some people in the comments seem a bit confused about what Eben means by a parts kit. He is talking about the foundation???s order of the parts from which we make the board: chips, transistors, silicon substrate, capacitors, resistors and all the other bits of electronics hardware that go into making a computer. This isn???t something you can buy from us (the board is much too fine-pitched for you to be able to make at home ??? you???d need assembly robots
[13:33] <IT_Sean> yeah... the "parts kit" is not aval. to gen pop.
[13:33] <royh> IT_Sean: it is though. that's what it says in that posting
[13:33] <royh> anyone who wants to buy them
[13:34] <IT_Sean> raspi's come assembled, is my understanding
[13:34] <royh> or isn't it?
[13:34] <IT_Sean> "This isn't something you can buy from us"
[13:34] <IT_Sean> Raspis come assembled
[13:34] <royh> i figured the assembled ones where not what you could buy from them?
[13:35] <royh> im very confused now
[13:35] <IT_Sean> there will not, by my understaning, be a DIY option
[13:35] <royh> ok, well that's nice
[13:35] <IT_Sean> what you are getting from them is an assembled raspi board, with all the fiddly bits already stuck to it.
[13:35] <royh> oh goodie. that makes it a tad easier to play with...
[13:35] <IT_Sean> indeed
[13:35] <royh> is debian the "official" os/distro?
[13:37] <IT_Sean> i haven't seen any word on what distro's they are going to be distributing. My understanding is that it comes with nothing. You have the OPTION to purchase a pre-written boot card (it boots off an SD card). There will be several OSes aval., but i haven't seen which yet.
[13:37] <IT_Sean> Someone else in here may have more recent info.
[13:37] <royh> yeah, i heard that too.
[13:39] <IT_Sean> Time for the morning poll! Do i want A) a cup of tea-like-substance, B) a cup of hot cocoa, or C) nothing?
[13:42] <royh> it would be nice if we're working together on a common supported package imho
[13:42] <royh> as opposed to everyone working with different distros and or OSes.
[13:42] <royh> and "we" as in the community, just to clear up a few things, hehe.
[13:42] * Beakster_ (~Beakster@gs1tor.mpoip10.yyz.teloip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:45] * Beakster (~Beakster@69-196-182-59.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:49] <royh> IT_Sean: is that a euphemism? :P
[13:51] <IT_Sean> is what a euphamism?
[14:11] <royh> IT_Sean: i wouldn't be able to explain it in my own words properly, but wikipedia has a good definition on it i think.
[14:12] <royh> IT_Sean: basically me asking jokefully if what you just said was a wrapper for a sarcastic remark to my "we must stand united" comment :P
[14:22] <IT_Sean> it was not.
[14:23] <IT_Sean> (I kn ow what a euphamism is, by the way, i judt didn't know to which of my comments you were referring)
[14:25] <ukscone> be quite both of you it' too early to be debating definitions and euphamisms -- at least wait until i have had coffee
[14:25] <ukscone> :)
[14:26] <ukscone> it'll be a few minutes until i can make it too because some idiot with a jack hammer down the road is asking to have his jack hammer shoved up his arse sideways
[14:26] <ukscone> it's too early to be digging up the pavement
[14:26] <ukscone> pavement == sidewalk
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[14:29] * ahven (~ahven@jutukas.saarlane.ee) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:31] <IT_Sean> a jackhammer up the arse sounds painful.
[14:31] <IT_Sean> sideways, even more so.
[14:31] <ukscone> i'll ask him after i perfom the surgery
[14:32] <IT_Sean> Could you do a favor, and also kill whoever decided to close two of three lanes of a major roadway last night, during the evening rush? Took me an hour and a half to get home from work.
[14:32] <ukscone> might be a scientific paper in this. what is the pain felt by the subject on the insertion of various objects in the rectum sideways
[14:33] <IT_Sean> Start with a small car, and work your way up from there.
[14:33] <ukscone> is a hamster more painful than a gerbil, does a jackhammer sideways hurt more then when inserted in line with the rectum
[14:33] <ukscone> how much vaseline is required to insert an elephant
[14:34] <ukscone> it could create a whole new branch of science
[14:35] <IT_Sean> Vaseline? You were planning on using lube?
[14:36] <IT_Sean> I bet you a fiver you can get that jackhammer in without any lubrication whatsoever.
[14:38] <royh> oh the images....
[14:38] * royh runs away again :P
[14:39] <IT_Sean> welcome to #raspberrypi, royh
[14:42] <royh> haha, thanks! this'll be interesting :P
[14:43] <IT_Sean> We do occasionally discuss the raspi. There is a fair amount of... um... off topic conversation as well, though.
[14:44] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:46] <royh> i consider everything off-topic on-topic as long as it's entertaining, so i guess i'll fit in ;)
[14:57] * jzu (~jzu@sete.opentrust.com) Quit (Quit: Kick out the jams, motherfuckers!)
[14:57] <IT_Sean> awesome.
[15:12] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@ Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
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[15:36] <ukscone> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056535/Shark-discovered-double-yellow-lines-Welsh-seaside-town-Aberystwyth.html
[16:34] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has left #raspberrypi
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[16:48] <traeak> http://sellout.woot.com/sale/21566
[16:48] <traeak> okay i forgot
[16:48] <traeak> can the rpi's sd slot handle the wifi portion?
[16:52] <traeak> seems to be a strange device...apparently it does wifi independent of the device itself (I think?)
[16:54] <traeak> http://dave-hansen.blogspot.com/
[16:56] <ctyler> traeak: my understanding is that device sends image files that it finds on the card autonomously, without host intervention. I don't think it can be used as a wifi device for the host to use.
[16:57] <IT_Sean> Yeah, those wifi SD card thingers for cameras don't actually pass TCPIP to the host
[16:57] <ctyler> so I think it should be able to send files but not provide a "wlan0" connection...
[16:57] <IT_Sean> they are completly self containted. They just take images, and instead of writing them to flash, they push them out over wifi
[16:58] <IT_Sean> you MIGHT be able to drop a file onto it, and send it wirelessly, depending on what filetypes the adapter is desigined to handle, but, that's about it.
[17:00] <traeak> lame
[17:01] <ctyler> probably have to: name the file with .jpg extension and drop it in /dcim directory
[17:01] <traeak> actually reading up on *just this* device it should be hackable to make it communicate with the host, but the company controls what firmware your device can install
[17:01] * ctyler would not be at all surprised if there's an M-profile ARM controller in there
[17:01] <traeak> so they offer 3 models. likely they all have the same hardware and just 3 different firmwares
[17:02] <traeak> this cheapo one is just the "auto upload" deal
[17:02] <IT_Sean> what are the other two?
[17:03] <traeak> http://support.eye.fi/product-info/specs-details/eye-fi-cards/what-are-the-eye-fi-card-features/
[17:03] <IT_Sean> can't click. Nevermind
[17:03] <traeak> pro x2 and mobile x2
[17:04] <traeak> pro x2 is the one that i think allows use as wifi device
[17:04] <traeak> or maybe not then
[17:04] <traeak> oh well (grr)
[17:04] <traeak> forget it :-p
[17:04] <IT_Sean> I'm not really sure how that'd work, to be honest.
[17:05] <IT_Sean> as far as i know, those things don't pass TCP/IP connectivity to the deivce. They just suck in files & blow 'em out over wifi
[17:05] <ctyler> there are SDIO cards, but the advantage of this device is that it provides some flash for booting from... probably needs a firmware hack to be used both ways
[17:05] <IT_Sean> Your best bet w/ the raspi is probably a USB wifi dongle, or a wifi <-> ethernet bridge.
[17:06] <IT_Sean> get a small wifi <-> enet adapter, strip off it's case, and put it in the same enclosure as the raspi
[17:06] * ctyler has always wondered about the antenna situation with the eyefi cards
[17:06] <IT_Sean> internal one, obviousily.
[17:07] <traeak> wifi ethernet bridge usually requires external power, correct?
[17:07] <IT_Sean> yeah, but a small one should be able to run at the same voltage as the raspi
[17:08] <traeak> likely so
[17:08] <IT_Sean> I have a small netgear one that runs off of 12v
[17:08] <traeak> forums seem very slow
[17:09] <traeak> i was considering getting a keyboard with a 2 usb port hub inside of it, and then using a wireless dongle
[17:09] <traeak> keyboard + mouse + gamepad and wireless for development
[17:10] <traeak> wireless would be optional i guess, development could happen hard wired although that's not convenient since i went all wireless at home 3 years ago
[17:10] <traeak> actually i went all wireless about 8 years ago at home
[17:11] <Dagger3> you can get wireless dongles like this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/190460717191
[17:11] <Dagger3> you'll need a USB port, but you're probably going to end up with a hub anyway, so...
[17:12] <traeak> i was hoping to avoid a powered hub...i *do* have a usb 1.1 hub here which would serve just fine for kb/mouse/etc
[17:13] <traeak> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0316240 i got one of these a while back for very cheap
[17:14] <traeak> doesn't matter much anyways
[17:14] <Dagger3> I doubt that'll eat that much power
[17:14] <ReggieUK> whats the range? 10cm?
[17:15] <traeak> seems like these small dongles are probably 10m or so
[17:16] <IT_Sean> I'm going to try to see if i can put a raspi, wireless bridge or USB adapter, and a powered USB hub in a single (as small as possible) enclosure, and power it off of one power supply.
[17:16] <Dagger3> yeah, probably not great, but I expect it'll work fine, especially if you don't need a very fast connection
[17:18] <traeak> at work everything is wired (need the throughput) so that's not a problem
[17:18] <traeak> may still need a keyboard, mouse and 1 more USB device
[17:19] <traeak> we'll see...if this old trash usb 1.1 hub actually works it'll do what i need it to.
[17:20] <ctyler> what's the power draw of a wifi dongle?
[17:20] <traeak> hmm...i don't have any 1080p monitors about, just 1900x1200 (or whatever) sould work
[17:21] <traeak> i saw mention on the boards anywhere from 300 to 500mA depends i think
[17:21] <traeak> i wonder if the linux kernel is able to tell how many power units a device is using
[17:21] <traeak> if the USB ports even expose that information
[17:21] <ctyler> via usb power negotiation, yes
[17:21] <ctyler> if they report accurately
[17:22] <ctyler> lsusb can show that
[17:22] <traeak> just reading the man page :-p
[17:22] * vgrade (~martinbro@cpc2-nrte22-2-0-cust128.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:23] <traeak> MaxPower
[17:24] <traeak> i have a non vibrating gamepad 40mA
[17:24] <ctyler> most mice and keyboards report 98mA
[17:24] <traeak> logitech mouse receiver 70mA
[17:24] <traeak> webcam 100mA
[17:25] <traeak> the bluetooth dongle reports 0mA (interesting)
[17:27] <Dagger3> the reported numbers seem to have very little to do with the actual power consumption of the devices
[17:27] <traeak> trackball 100mA, optical mouse 100mA
[17:27] <traeak> probably some "hint" as to what max power draw might be?
[17:28] <traeak> oh well
[17:28] <Dagger3> and, at least according to Windows, every single one of my hubs reports itself as being self-powered with 0.5 A available per port, so it looks like hub manufacturers know that too
[17:30] <traeak> must be max anticipated power draw then ?
[17:30] <traeak> by spec a usb2.0 device can't pull more than 500mA
[17:34] <Dagger3> yeah, by /spec/
[17:34] <Dagger3> in practice you can pull more than that a lot of the time, and also many devices report way above their actual current draw
[17:36] <Dagger3> so I assume that hubs report as "self-powered, 0.5 A available per port" so that host devices don't refuse a power allocation request from a USB device in a situation where it would work anyway, even though the claimed total draw on the root port would be >0.5 A
[17:36] <traeak> i would *hope* that usb hard drives are the exception and not the norm
[17:38] <ctyler> lots of devices just take power and don't negotiate
[17:38] <ctyler> multi-port USB power-sneaking cables for USB harddisk included
[17:42] <traeak> just mouse, keyboard, gamepad, *maybe* usb sticks
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[18:53] <ukscone> go to google.com and type "do a barrel roll" :-)
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[19:57] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:12] * piofcube (~piofcube@www.openindieproject.org) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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[20:50] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Well hello Sean. How are you today?
[20:53] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[20:55] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[20:57] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[20:57] <PiBot> ukscone| <ukscone> SIMULATE alien abduction by scrolling out from your location on Google Streetview with a finger up your bum. lol
[20:58] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[20:58] <PiBot> ukscone| <ukscone> SIMULATE alien abduction by scrolling out from your location on Google Streetview with a finger up your bum. lol
[21:00] <iMatttt> 0.o
[21:02] <IT_Sean> HAHHAA!
[21:26] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:29] <ukscone> Many adults think children are 'feral', survey finds -- we needed a survey to tell us that?
[21:55] <zear> changing the topic to actually something rpi related :) Anybody here working/planning to work on a game console focusing distro?
[21:55] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[21:58] <traeak> !w
[21:58] <PiBot> traeak: in Parker, CO on Thu Nov 3 14:53:00 2011. Temp 7??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 40%. Later 7??C - -2??C. Condition: Clear
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[22:49] * TachiH (~TachiH@host-92-25-98-44.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] * _MrCurious (~MrCurious@ip72-197-185-225.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] * diggy (~diggy@78-207-135.adsl.cyta.gr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:19] * MrCurious_ (~MrCurious@ip72-197-185-225.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[23:19] * _MrCurious is now known as MrCurious_
[23:22] * diggy (~diggy@78-207-135.adsl.cyta.gr) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:39] * Beakster__ (~Beakster@69-196-182-59.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:43] * Beakster_ (~Beakster@gs1tor.mpoip10.yyz.teloip.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:54] * obarthelemy (~oonlan@bne75-2-82-66-97-6.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:54] <obarthelemy> hi. Anyone here knows why the -dev room is now "secret" ?

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.