#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-11-26

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:07] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@CPE-76-177-37-146.natcky.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[0:44] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:46] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:58] <mdavey> zabomber: did you get an answer to your question of Qt vs Mer?
[1:01] * mdavey_ (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:02] * mdavey_ is now known as mdavey
[1:02] * royh (~roy@mail.vgnett.no) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[1:21] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[1:21] <Thorn_> release date in 3 days right?
[1:23] <traeak> hehe sure
[1:23] <traeak> you don't have yours yet? I got mine on wednesday
[1:25] <iMatttt> Orly
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[1:36] <UnaClocker> I signed up for an account in the store today.. I'm ready to roll. :)
[1:37] <ukscone> UnaClocker: to rickroll?
[1:41] <UnaClocker> I'm Rick James, BITCH!
[1:41] <UnaClocker> hahaha.. ;)
[1:45] * comradeg33k (~themacg33@unaffiliated/themacg33k) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:47] * merlin1991 can't await to get a raspberry pi
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[2:31] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[3:05] * comradeg33k (~themacg33@unaffiliated/themacg33k) Quit (Quit: !?)
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[4:29] * jimerickson (~jim@184-97-41-67.desm.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[4:32] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5614.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[12:13] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:15] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:15] <mdavey> morning all
[12:16] <mdavey> who's awake?
[12:24] * datagutt (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:56] <iMatttt> Me
[14:06] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[15:20] <ukscone> morning all
[15:24] * comradeg33k (~themacg33@unaffiliated/themacg33k) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:28] <duckinator> hi
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[16:00] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:01] <UnderSampled> Is the Raspberry Pi able to support normal OpenGL, or just OpenGL ES?
[16:01] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:03] <ahven> ES I think
[16:04] <UnderSampled> :(
[16:06] * joukio (~joukio@82-171-18-219.ip.telfort.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:19] <UnderSampled> do we know which version?
[16:21] <ahven> http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard
[16:21] <ahven> OpenGL ES 2.0
[16:26] <UnderSampled> ahven: ah, thanks
[16:38] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:46] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@ Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[16:56] * mdavey quite likes the look of the raspberry pi beta board case
[17:01] <ukscone> mdavey: what's it look like?
[17:02] <ukscone> i'm wondering how long it'll take for someone to use a 3d printer to make a raspberry pi case in the shape of the raspberry pi logo
[17:06] * mdavey needs to restart firefox - adobe plugin is as flaky as s**t
[17:10] <mdavey> http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/md84419/?action=view&current=rasp-beta-2.png
[17:10] <mdavey> http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/md84419/?action=view&current=rasp-beta.png
[17:12] <Dagger3> mdavey: SumatraPDF has a browser plugin these days. there's not that much reason to use adobe reader any more, particularly not as your default viewer
[17:20] <dattaway> Q: where's a link to the rp's kernel .config and patches?
[17:22] <mdavey> dattaway: http://www.raspberrypi.org/kernel.zip
[17:22] <dattaway> mdavey: ty
[17:22] <mdavey> np
[17:28] <ukscone> mdavey: not that they really need one because no bootloader etc. but do you know if the foundation has a machineid ?
[17:28] <ukscone> or have plans to get one
[17:31] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[17:32] <ukscone> Thorn_: last wednesday did noone tell you?
[17:32] <Thorn_> at this rate rpi really will be vapourware
[17:33] <ukscone> they sold out in 10 minutes
[17:33] <Thorn_> its almost december :(
[17:33] <Thorn_> and still no estimated release date, or mention of final board manufacturing
[17:33] <Thorn_> it was all just a big hoax
[17:33] <mdavey> ukscone: I don't know, but I would expect both the CPU and the ethernet interface to have unique ids.
[17:33] <ukscone> Thorn_: yeah it's all a subtle plot to drive you nuts
[17:34] <ukscone> Thorn_: people have bene plotting for over 5 years just so they can make you go crazy
[17:35] <ukscone> mdavey: yup, just wondered as i know we had problems with upgrading kernels on the zipit initially because they just used any old machine id in the kernel -- it's not a big problem on the whole but having one does make life simpler in the long run
[17:36] <ukscone> Thorn_: once they send the board for manufacture the lead time from starting until they are at liz's front door is very short -- 5 to 7 days from what I heard
[17:36] <ukscone> and 3 of those days is postage delays
[17:36] <mdavey> ukscone: most modern CPUs have unique die ids, I would expect the broadcom chip to be no different - especially given its mobile pedegree. I would expect the MAC to be based on that using a simple algorithm. It remains to be seen whether one has the ability to spoof (change) the MAC but probably one could.
[17:37] <ukscone> mdavey: i don't think you understand what a machineid is :)
[17:37] <mdavey> perhaps now
[17:37] <mdavey> *not
[17:37] <ukscone> a machineid is a code in the kernel that makes it uniuqe for kernel configs
[17:38] <ukscone> and most bootloaders (not that we have one) use it so they know the kernel is for the device
[17:38] <mdavey> IC.
[17:39] <ukscone> on the zipit for instance because the bootloader we had at the time used an incorrect machineid we were stuff with the original kernel unless we did a lot of patching and stuff. we solvved it eventually and then changed the bootloader but without it we couldn't use mainline kernel sources
[17:39] <mdavey> well we could have bootloaders - there is nothing stopping us. Just that the images currently available don't
[17:39] <ukscone> s/stuff/stuck
[17:39] <mdavey> ukscone: so how does one define a kernel machineid?
[17:40] <ukscone> without a machineid upstream won't accept kernel patches to mainline either
[17:41] <ukscone> iirc you ask russell king to assign you one and that's it then once you have it the board config files for the device use it so that menconfig can be setup right for the device
[17:41] <ukscone> is russell king still the arm kernel maintainer???? not sure but he probably is
[17:42] <ukscone> as i said we don't need it now and it won't take long to get one but in the long run it would be good to have one just because it's the right thing to do
[17:42] <ukscone> even if it's not needed until we start messing with u-boot or barebox etc
[17:42] <ukscone> if we ever do
[17:45] <ukscone> mdavey: it's a PDF :D but here is a doc that has a good explaination of why a machine id is a good idea (especially if you want to be able to push patches upstream and use mainline) http://www.stillhq.com/pdfdb/000465/data.pdf
[17:46] <mdavey> ukscone: CONFIG_MACH_BCM2708
[17:47] <mdavey> ukscone: ID=3138
[17:47] <ukscone> hmmm looks liek they are "sharing" one then but ok
[17:47] <mdavey> ukscone: http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/list.php?id=3138
[17:48] <mdavey> ukscone: http://www.raspberrypi.org/kernel.zip!raspberrypi.patch.gz!raspberrypi.patch
[17:49] <ukscone> heh last link is page not found :)
[17:50] <ukscone> but ok -- we don't have a unique one atm but no biggy
[17:50] <mdavey> (the second isn't a valid http link: raspberrypi website doesn't include support for zip traversal, the http link is http://www.raspberrypi.org/kernel.zip)
[17:51] <ukscone> i'll take a look
[17:51] <mdavey> ukscone: yea sounds like something to ask about
[17:51] <ukscone> heh i'm loving this bash alias a friend made me start using :)
[17:52] <ctyler> ukscone: machineids are a short-term hack
[17:52] <mdavey> Thorn_: I'd say a week or two, depending on how buggy the trial runs are
[17:52] <ukscone> $ cat .bash_aliases
[17:52] <ukscone> alias doch='sudo $(history -p !-1)'
[17:52] <ukscone> wish i'd starting using that one years ago
[17:52] <ctyler> I presume they're going to give an update when the test boards come back
[17:53] <ukscone> ctyler: if i were them i'd say nothing now until after the release :) it'll only get posted on slashdot otherwise
[17:54] <mdavey> ukscone: when you say sharing, do you mean sharing between bcm2763 and 2708 or sharing between broadcom and raspberrypi?
[17:54] <ukscone> sharing between bcm chip's
[17:54] <ukscone> i thought we were a bcm8535 or something (i just guessed at the numbers because i'm too lazy to hit the wiki)
[17:55] <ctyler> I hope that enough docs are released that we can do a pre-bootloader with device tree support at some future point.
[17:55] <ukscone> bcm 2835
[17:55] <mdavey> ukscone: yea I did the same :D bcm2835 - that's what we are
[17:56] <ukscone> as i said it's nothing more than a housekeeping thing for us unless and until we start using a real bootloader for the kernel.img and/or we want to push patches to mainline
[17:57] <ukscone> but might as well start as we mean to go on
[17:57] <ukscone> especially as this is a learning tool
[17:57] <ukscone> get the little sprogs doing stuff properly. maybe send them on technical writing courses so they learn how to write documentation too
[17:58] <ukscone> wouldn't that be something? open source projects with REAL documentation :) although when that happens its probably one of the signs of the end of the world
[17:59] <mdavey> what is a bcm2708?
[17:59] * ania (52251dea@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[18:00] <ania> hi
[18:00] <ctyler> two sides to that one ... (1) getting docs to open source devs so they can do stuff and (2) getting open source devs to sit and write docs (some projects are good, but they are the exception).
[18:00] <Thorn_> 1-2 weeks?
[18:00] <Thorn_> i can't wait that long!
[18:00] <ctyler> "But Seth *is* the documentation!"
[18:02] <ctyler> Maybe the raspi store should sell sedatives in the interim. Or at least chamomile tea.
[18:02] <ukscone> yup it is a two edged sword -- some projects are really good in that they have tech writes in the project others are well they might as well be doign stuff in mongolian
[18:03] <Thorn_> are you calling me a mongo?
[18:15] <mdavey> ukscone: why do you call it doch?
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[18:47] * UnderSampled1 (~UnderSamp@ Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[18:55] <mdavey> and so ends the longest-running and most posted-to thread on the forum: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=2.28 :D
[18:57] <mdavey> *one of the
[19:02] * ania (52251dea@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[20:18] * piofcube (~piofcube@coms.openindieproject.org) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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[20:41] <ukscone> i'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccckkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
[20:42] <iMatttt_> Ewwww
[20:45] <DaQatz> I'll be the front.
[20:45] <ukscone> as i was coming home i popped into my local radioshack -- they have two arduino items now that they didn't have yesterday -- two of the shields. no arduino's of course because that would make sense
[20:52] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:08] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:51] <ahven> I think I will have start having free time when raspi comes out, moving apartments and living the usual life takes a toll :P
[21:51] <ahven> and perhaps even back to prototyping with my arduino(s)
[22:07] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:14] <ukscone> rehoi mdavey
[22:15] <mdavey> ello ukscone
[22:15] <ukscone> mdavey: it's caled doch because my friend is geerman and http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa010806b.htm
[22:16] <mdavey> ah
[22:21] <kkolev> ukscone: wouldn't 'sudo !!' work in an alias?
[22:21] <mdavey> ukscone: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/M/mu.html
[22:24] <ukscone> kkolev: depends on the shell
[22:25] <kkolev> oh, I guess history would be more generic, right?
[22:26] <ukscone> kkolev: alias doch sudo \!-1 is csh version
[22:27] <mdavey> One of my friends uses 'si' to mean yes to the first part of the question, or 'ne si' to mean no to the first part.
[22:27] <kkolev> right... is csh still widely used, or more of a fringe shell? IIRC it was an installed alternative in slack back in the days
[22:28] <kkolev> wonder if I should give zsh another try...
[22:30] <ukscone> i used csh for years but wasn't buildable for one of my arm devices so ended up using bash since
[22:31] <kkolev> so why not the !! alias? =]
[22:33] <ukscone> try putting it in an alias
[22:34] <ukscone> you can sudo !! by hand but thats 3 extra chars :)
[22:34] * iMatttt_ (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:35] <kkolev> heh, just tried it out in an alias
[22:36] <kkolev> tempts me quite a bit to dig into the bash docs, but I don't want to inflict that on myself on a Sat night.
[22:37] <kkolev> Ah, screw it. The su.com solutions are uglier than the original alias.
[22:39] <ukscone> :)
[23:52] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[23:53] * ReimuHak_ (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)

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