#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2011-12-26

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <Thorn_> and i've heard that links is far better than lynx (never tried links tho)
[0:01] * ShadowE989 (~ShadowE98@74-47-218-61.dr02.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:01] <WASDx> i can't stand terminal webbrowsers :/
[0:03] <piofcube> My MSP430G kits came yesterday so will be messing around with them for the next few days... The Code Composer Studio package seems to be a pain to use so I might see if I get another dev package that will be easier.
[0:05] <WASDx> I've tried w3m and elinks
[0:11] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:12] <piofcube> I was thinking of using the MSP430G in my first projects... I will be making a Media streamer and thought that it would be good to have a LCD that can work even when the R-Pi of switched off... It would display the time and when the R-Pi is powered, it could show other things like track name being played etc... Also it could be used as a power controller to turn on/off the R-Pi... Also, it could supply the time via as it can be used with a
[0:13] <Thorn_> wow
[0:13] <Thorn_> gotta take a nap after that longass paragraph
[0:13] <piofcube> LMAO
[0:14] <wwalker> Thorn_: mutt and links
[0:14] <wwalker> WASDx: I can't stand flash ....
[0:14] <WASDx> I can stand it, nothing more
[0:15] <MuNk> the MSP430s aint to bad but yes the Code Composer Studio (Eclipse reworked) has its ups and downs but it aint to bad.
[0:15] <WASDx> watching youtube is fine
[0:16] <MuNk> also ive been wondering ive not noticed but the R-Pi does it have two pins you short to turn it on? or auto-on when powered?
[0:16] <WASDx> around 15% cpu usage right now on a video
[0:17] <Thorn_> the pi is always-on when provided with power
[0:17] <WASDx> Thorn_: what about power buttons?
[0:17] <WASDx> didnt know that
[0:18] <Thorn_> as far as i'm aware the final boards have no buttons
[0:18] <WASDx> lets check the screenshots
[0:18] <WASDx> i mean images..
[0:18] <Thorn_> there were buttons on thet alphaboards for testing
[0:18] <Thorn_> but there was never any intention of having them on the final boards
[0:18] <WASDx> seems you're right
[0:19] * ShadowE989 (~ShadowE98@74-47-218-61.dr02.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:22] <wwalker> MuNk: the 430 kit still that little clear USB sick?
[0:23] <piofcube> Should be able to work something into it... Have the OS catch a request to power-down then cut the power after a suitable length...
[0:24] <MuNk> nope, MSP430 just a small board, dont remember it being a clear stick
[0:25] <piofcube> Even re-use some of the stuff developed during the first UPS systems that used serial to notify the OS when the power failed so the system could shutdown nicely
[0:28] <wwalker> I got a MPS430 very very early (4 years ago?)
[0:30] <MuNk> went i bought my last one cost me a whole ?4+PP from US to UK
[0:31] <wwalker> yep. if you need sujper lower power, the mps430 series is impressive.
[0:33] <piofcube> I thought it would be a good start... work up to more powerful things :-)
[0:35] <MuNk> msp430 are generally excellent value for money i found.
[0:37] <wwalker> piofcube: you should be able to make a passthru device with a male and female micro USB connectors and a 430. and a mosfet, scr, or some such to control the power into th board
[0:38] <piofcube> Yeah. That's what I was thinking and also to get the R-Pi to shutdown gracefully before cutting power
[0:39] <wwalker> there are the 32(?) GPIO pins so shouldn't be hard to communicate both ways
[0:39] <piofcube> true
[0:40] <wwalker> 24
[0:41] <piofcube> I'm also doing a Mini-ITX/Intel version of the media streamer so I have something to do while waiting for R-Pi... compare them both once I get them done. Should be interesting
[0:41] <WASDx> Thorn_: so what would happen if you halt it? will it shutdown? how to start it?
[0:41] <MuNk> id supprised that there aint just two pins as power switch
[0:42] <piofcube> I would still need ACPI though if it had a power switch?
[0:42] <Thorn_> WASDx: my guess is, 'halt' will just be a quick reboot
[0:43] <Thorn_> but i guess we won't know unless someone with a beta board tells us
[0:43] <WASDx> so if i want to shutdown the device I would have to unplug the power at the correct time after halt
[0:43] <wwalker> anyone seen a case for the raspberry pi yet? I saw one 3d printer based one...
[0:43] <Thorn_> well, you can safely drop runlevels and then pull the power
[0:43] <WASDx> wwalker: I've designed one myself in blender :P
[0:44] <WASDx> let me link it
[0:44] <wwalker> WASDx: can I buy one from you?
[0:44] <WASDx> uh, I guess. but I don't think you want one :P I'm intending just to build one for myself
[0:44] <MuNk> im'a wait, as i want to make a stackable case,plus make a match switch and powered-usb-hub with wires coming off to power them ^^
[0:45] <WASDx> wwalker: http://i.imgur.com/kcR55.jpg
[0:45] <Thorn_> going to look at a slightly higher case here
[0:45] <Thorn_> so i can fit a decent sized LiPo and voltage regulator in it for power
[0:46] <wwalker> I just realized that most 3 D printers require an external computer. Now one could just put a raspberry pi on teh printer.
[0:46] <MuNk> =]
[0:47] <WASDx> not decided my height yet. Will do as i build it
[0:47] <piofcube> LOL... I guess if you are paying ??19K for a HP 3D printer you might want to save the on PC ;-)
[0:47] <WASDx> will probably be as in that picture
[0:47] <wwalker> Thorn_: cool. I was thinking same thing long term. LiPo with USB out, and room for a Gert board :)
[0:47] <piofcube> the cash**
[0:48] <wwalker> piofcube: I was thinking of the $500 rep rap or maker bot
[0:50] <piofcube> the Rep Rap looks good
[0:52] <wwalker> so, the RP is suppos3ed to come in 2 flavors - $25 without ethernet and $35 with ethernet. Are both versions going to be available in January?
[0:52] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[0:52] <Thorn_> yes
[0:52] <Thorn_> There's be model Model B's than Model A's available in the first batch, too
[0:52] <Thorn_> There'll*
[0:52] * wwalker is worried that there will be a sell out while I'm not paying attention.
[0:53] <Thorn_> if you've subscribed to the mailing list, you'll be notified before they start selling :)
[0:53] <Thorn_> however there is a high chance of a "Buy one give one" scheme on the first batch of 10,000 units to slow down the initial rush in demand
[0:53] <ChristmasAlison> give one to whom?
[0:54] <UnaClock_> Once they are in full production, I plan to buy one every payday.. ;)
[0:54] <Thorn_> ChristmasAlison: Not sure if they're going to airdrop them to north africa or give them to schools
[0:54] <Thorn_> :P
[0:54] <Thorn_> I think at the moment it's just 'give one to the charity' so they can do charity things
[0:55] <jojo> i thought they ruled out forced BOGO for the first batch ?
[0:55] <MuNk> wwalker, modelB will sell out fast
[0:55] <wwalker> I don't know about anyone else, but $70 for a B won't slow me down.
[0:55] <UnaClock_> I'll buy whatever model is in stock.
[0:55] <Thorn_> jojo: was it? haven't read that, but Liz said it was never 100% gauranteed
[0:55] <MuNk> all i want is 4x Bs and ill be happy :)
[0:56] <Thorn_> Want to take the two datalines off the microusb power input and wire them to one of the usb ports from the lan9512, that way, using usbnet, you just need one cable plugged into a pc and you have a fully connected machine :P
[0:56] <Thorn_> great for doing 'fun things' to library computers etc too ;p
[0:57] <Thorn_> (when i say two datalines i just mean data +/- )
[0:58] <MuNk> Thorn_, that would be rather slow though? but kinda elegent i guess
[0:58] <MuNk> but then again max through put of usb2.0 is higher than 10/100ethernet aint it?
[0:58] <Thorn_> well, the actual ethernet on the model B is connected to the lan9512 usb controller anyway
[0:59] <MuNk> hmm
[0:59] <Thorn_> and afaik the only communication between the lan9512 and the SoC is one USB lane
[0:59] <Thorn_> so apart from the overhead of dealing with the usb protocol via usbnet, i'm not sure it'll be much slower than the eth
[0:59] <MuNk> i think ill wait for you to try and document it Thorn :)
[1:00] <MuNk> if it works well, ill be making use of that method :P
[1:00] <Thorn_> hey, i'm just a clueless guy making poorly-based assumptions :P
[1:00] <MuNk> not the only one :)
[1:00] <Thorn_> i really hope they do go ahead and auction some boards at the end of this month
[1:00] <piofcube> Thorn_ I thought I was the only one ;-)
[1:01] <Thorn_> what we need, is to convince Gert to hang around on irc :D
[1:06] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:06] <RITRedbeard> Who else is doing the Raspberry Pi Pepsi Challenge?
[1:06] <Thorn_> pepsi challenge?
[1:07] <RITRedbeard> Replace your daily machine with Model B.
[1:07] <MuNk> RITRedbeard, as much as id love to there aint a chance of it
[1:07] <Thorn_> hmm
[1:07] <MuNk> too many VMs i run to be able to do that
[1:07] <Thorn_> main computer? no, but i could definitely replace my work machine with a model B with no issues at all
[1:08] <Thorn_> infact, there's a few old bulky machines in this house (like old celeron 2.4ghz's and old amd athlon machines) which would happily be replaced by a model b
[1:09] <Thorn_> i wonder
[1:09] <Thorn_> since there's flash for armv6
[1:09] <wiiguy> well seeing raskberry can easily play 1080p i would have to think it can do more then my pc :p
[1:09] <Thorn_> will the 700mhz arm run youtube much better than a 2.4ghz P4 on linux?
[1:10] <Thorn_> :P
[1:10] <WASDx> flash would be hopeless on the RPi, alternative youtube players are needed
[1:10] <wiiguy> depends if it will be gpu based :p
[1:10] <Thorn_> i don't see why it would be hopeless
[1:10] <RITRedbeard> well watts/performance sure will be better
[1:10] <Thorn_> i have flash on my phone, which is an 800mhz armv6
[1:10] <RITRedbeard> especially if it is P4 northwood
[1:10] <RITRedbeard> oh lordy
[1:11] <RITRedbeard> could fry eggs on them
[1:11] <Thorn_> yep
[1:11] <MuNk> how well youtube is least of of issues for me, im more concerned about a nice method to power multiple ones, custom PoE looks like the best option
[1:11] <WASDx> 720p maybe takes 30% cpu in my computer now with linux
[1:11] <RITRedbeard> back when chieftec cases were "the shit"
[1:11] <wiiguy> im guessing there will be no way to overclock that 700mhz :p
[1:11] <WASDx> wiiguy: there has been discussions on it, I think it could reach 1GHz
[1:11] <MuNk> even if there was im sure it would end badly for many
[1:11] <Thorn_> speaking of frying eggs on pc's lately, checked the heatpipes on my graphics card lately, all the metal foil/paint on them is gone, it's just a very rusty copper look now
[1:11] <WASDx> not sure how much has been tested
[1:11] <Thorn_> put my finger on the heatsink and i still have the mark :D
[1:12] <wiiguy> meh 700-1ghz would be sweet :p
[1:12] <MuNk> but you'd need a heat-sink on it for 1ghz to be safe id assume?
[1:12] <Thorn_> i doubt it
[1:13] <Thorn_> it doesn't even reach body temperature atm
[1:13] <WASDx> They said the limitations wasnt heat-related
[1:13] <wiiguy> just let some peopel test it before you try it yourself :)
[1:13] <RITRedbeard> back when Radeon 9700 Pro ruled the world. :)
[1:13] <WASDx> It just becomes unstable, no heat problems
[1:13] <Thorn_> i've heard overclocking ARM isn't smart anyway
[1:13] <wiiguy> then just go max 800 or 900mhz
[1:13] <Thorn_> my phone instantly reboots at 1ghz, kind of runs stable at 920 mhz (from 800)
[1:13] <WASDx> 800 or 900 should be fine
[1:14] <WASDx> i'll stay at 700 until others have done testing :P
[1:14] <wiiguy> as far i know my phone is 1ghz(not rooted @ the moment so no chance to overlock it)
[1:14] <wiiguy> WASDx : same
[1:14] <Thorn_> i just wish the pi was armv7 and not v6
[1:14] <WASDx> is it 6? I've heard 11 :S
[1:14] <wiiguy> big diffrence ?
[1:14] <Thorn_> there's a ridiculous difference in how smooth an armv7 feels
[1:15] <wiiguy> CPU: 700 MHz ARM11
[1:15] <Thorn_> WASDx: arm11, instructions v6
[1:15] <MuNk> somthing ive noticed ther card reader for SDcards didn't seam to be on the recent photos
[1:15] <WASDx> MuNk: correct
[1:16] <Thorn_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ARM_microprocessor_cores
[1:16] <Thorn_> arm11 is armv6
[1:16] <wiiguy> meh i would just make it cmd line based nas(and home video center :p), so im guessing it wouild run fine either way for me
[1:16] <RITRedbeard> Anyone else taking the Raspberry Pi Pepsi Challenge?
[1:16] <WASDx> stupid numbers :/
[1:16] <wiiguy> Raspberry Pi Pepsi Challenge ???
[1:17] <MuNk> RITRedbeard, closest im getting is replacing my Hadoop test cluster with them
[1:17] <WASDx> everyone asks :P
[1:17] <wiiguy> so what is the Raspberry Pi Pepsi Challenge ?
[1:17] <WASDx> wiiguy: replace your main computer with the RPi and use it for daily tasks
[1:17] <RITRedbeard> Replace your daily machine with Model B.
[1:17] <RITRedbeard> CAN YOU DO IT?
[1:17] <Thorn_> what if you can only afford a model a?
[1:17] <Thorn_> :P
[1:17] <wiiguy> RITRedbeard yes
[1:17] <RITRedbeard> sell your hair
[1:17] <RITRedbeard> locks of it
[1:18] <WASDx> If it had 512mb ram I would consider it
[1:18] <Thorn_> you dont need 512mb ram
[1:18] <RITRedbeard> Yeah, ram seems to be the barrier for me as well...
[1:18] <Thorn_> lose the bloat :P
[1:18] <RITRedbeard> whaaaaa?
[1:18] * RITRedbeard looks at 27 browser tabs
[1:18] <Thorn_> stop trying to run kde4
[1:18] <wiiguy> lol
[1:18] <WASDx> <-- Openbox
[1:18] <wiiguy> ldxe
[1:18] <RITRedbeard> I might have to cheat and run my browser and x forward it
[1:19] <Thorn_> oO
[1:19] <RITRedbeard> can't live without 30 tabs in my browser
[1:19] <Thorn_> we really need to come back to this argument when we get our pi's
[1:19] <wiiguy> RITRedbeard : true taht
[1:19] <WASDx> my friend also uses 30 tabs at a time... dont understand him
[1:19] <Thorn_> i'm pretty sure you'll have no trouble with 30 tabs in firefox
[1:19] <WASDx> i have 3 right now
[1:19] <RITRedbeard> what happens with me is I have so many API things open
[1:19] <RITRedbeard> I forget how I got there
[1:19] <RITRedbeard> "What was I searching that lead me here? Hmmm, I dunno, must have not been important..."
[1:19] <Thorn_> yeah
[1:19] <wiiguy> i always forget to close FF at some point i have way too many tabs open and FF force close
[1:20] <WASDx> RITRedbeard: try backspace :P
[1:20] <Thorn_> i tend to find i have more tabs the more productive i'm being
[1:20] <RITRedbeard> we could produce charts
[1:20] <WASDx> I actually found out backspace doesnt work in chromium yesterday
[1:20] <MuNk> RITRedbeard, screen + loads of lynx ftw :P
[1:20] <RITRedbeard> productivity compared to open tabs
[1:20] <RITRedbeard> indeed
[1:20] <WASDx> have been using the buttons on my mouse for half a year
[1:20] <Thorn_> :D
[1:20] <RITRedbeard> I might have to use lynx
[1:21] <Thorn_> on the other hand
[1:21] <wiiguy> meh anyways replacing m,y pc with a raspberry would lower my eliktrical bill very much :D
[1:21] <RITRedbeard> if I can set the font in the virtual terminal it isn't so bad... probably actually makes reading bulky API stuff easier
[1:21] <Thorn_> how much ram do you get to play with on a 256mb pi?
[1:21] <RITRedbeard> Not sure about the default allocation.
[1:21] <WASDx> 256mb?
[1:21] <Thorn_> pretty sure it's <200mb last time someone with an alphaboard showed statistics
[1:21] <WASDx> depends on distro of course
[1:22] <Thorn_> you lose alot to the graphics core
[1:22] <WASDx> and the kernel and stuff
[1:22] <WASDx> oh
[1:22] <WASDx> you mean shared GPU memory or something?
[1:22] <Thorn_> right
[1:22] <ReggieUK> it'll be known as the framebuffer
[1:22] <Thorn_> ^ this
[1:22] <wiiguy> anyways so they intend the raspberry for programming, but i would see it as a home computer aswell though
[1:23] <ReggieUK> and if you have control over the kernel command line then in theory you have control over how much ram you allocate to the framebuffer
[1:23] <WASDx> I dont see why everyone talks about programming. You can do that on any computer
[1:23] <Thorn_> heh
[1:23] <Thorn_> can't you just drop screenmode? ;p
[1:23] <ReggieUK> so if you use it headless it will be 256MB - kernel
[1:23] <Thorn_> or that
[1:23] <RITRedbeard> WASDx, layers of abstraction.
[1:23] * RITRedbeard shrugs.
[1:23] <ShiftPlusOne> WASDx, the idea is that it's cheap so you don't worry about letting your kids mess with it.
[1:24] <ReggieUK> pffft
[1:24] <RITRedbeard> look touch register GPIO does stuff
[1:24] <Thorn_> nothing like a 3 yr old learning arm assembly
[1:24] <MuNk> :D
[1:24] <wiiguy> :P
[1:24] <wiiguy> its never too soon :p
[1:24] <ShiftPlusOne> people are afraid that someone will push the 'break' button.
[1:24] <Thorn_> hey i made mario! jmp jmp jmp jmp jmp
[1:24] <RITRedbeard> yes and RISC
[1:24] <wiiguy> dont mock mario
[1:25] <WASDx> so when people talk about programming on the site they're not talking about regular stuff like web development? but programming that requires you to touch the hardware
[1:25] <ShiftPlusOne> (my grandma refuses to use the dvd player 'cause she thinks she'll press a button that will break it) =/
[1:25] <wiiguy> mario is a good game < atleast the 16 bits games from it
[1:25] <wiiguy> ShiftPlusOne > the self destruct button !!!
[1:26] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah... I keep asking her why she thinks someone would put such a button on a remote control, but I am yet to get a sensible answer.
[1:26] <wiiguy> would be awesome though :p
[1:26] <Thorn_> ShiftPlusOne: is it possible to get graphics output from the qemu env?
[1:27] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, yeah, you can run SDL, X and whatever else you want
[1:27] <Thorn_> ohhh
[1:27] <ShiftPlusOne> no 3d acceleration though
[1:27] <ShiftPlusOne> obviously
[1:27] <Thorn_> nice
[1:27] <ShiftPlusOne> and X kinda sucks since you can't change resolutions
[1:28] <ReggieUK> WASDxm they're talking linux software programming, or web stuff or hardware drivers
[1:28] <ReggieUK> just anything
[1:28] <ReggieUK> cos that's what you can do with one
[1:29] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, but I have played a few scummvm and dosbox games in qemu (emulating ARM) and they work like you'd expect them to.
[1:29] * Thorn_ really wants to play with the gpio
[1:29] <ReggieUK> me too
[1:29] <Thorn_> ShiftPlusOne: that's cool, i didn't know it was possible to get any video output at all
[1:29] <WASDx> ReggieUK: I think that can be done on any computer, not worrying about kids destroying it. As long as they don't have to touch the hardware
[1:29] <ShiftPlusOne> silly thorn
[1:30] <ReggieUK> if you don't tell them about the gpio then they're unlikely to break it :D
[1:30] <ReggieUK> but hey, it's linux
[1:30] <ReggieUK> you can break stuff if you want
[1:30] <ShiftPlusOne> WASDx, When I was a kid, I'd get blamed for every 'bad cluster' on the hard drive. Parents can be very paranoid.
[1:30] <WASDx> ReggieUK: don't give them root access :P
[1:31] <ReggieUK> it's you that's letting kids play with pi!
[1:31] <Thorn_> don't give them root access, and tell them they'll have to root it themself first
[1:31] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[1:31] <Thorn_> good education in security ;p
[1:32] <ReggieUK> or at the very least an education in googling
[1:32] <ShiftPlusOne> Gone are the good old days when you could just take out the cmos battery.
[1:32] <WASDx> I had to pry open a CD-reader today
[1:32] <WASDx> didnt want to open
[1:32] <Thorn_> what? put a long pin in the insert hole
[1:32] <ReggieUK> on the pi though all you do is remove power and swap the sd card
[1:33] <ShiftPlusOne> WASDx, there's tipically a button you can press though a hole to force them to open
[1:33] <WASDx> it got stuck when it tried to open
[1:33] <WASDx> it moved a millimeter
[1:33] <Thorn_> jeez it never ends
[1:34] <ShiftPlusOne> jesus... I really need spellcheck in xchat =/
[1:34] <Thorn_> more people asking if the pi will run a minecraft server
[1:34] <WASDx> Thorn_: :(
[1:34] <MuNk> say YES :P
[1:34] <Thorn_> well it will
[1:34] <Thorn_> just not the java server
[1:34] <MuNk> infact....
[1:34] <MuNk> one sec
[1:34] <WASDx> YES: through X-forwarding :P
[1:34] <Thorn_> but it should run mineserver fine
[1:34] <wiiguy> not many peopel will be able to join though :p
[1:35] <ShiftPlusOne> heh... a proper computer barely runs a minecraft server. I think the java one miht be able to support 1 person and no plugins.... just vanilla.
[1:35] <Thorn_> why not?
[1:35] <WASDx> Yeah there are alternative servers, but most are outdated
[1:35] <wiiguy> minecrafts erevr require alot of cpu
[1:35] <Dagger3> the server runs in qemu
[1:35] <wiiguy> no matter fi it will be java or not
[1:35] <Thorn_> WASDx: mineserver has seen the most development out of all of them i think, ms one was almost feature-complete
[1:35] <MuNk> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ld48/ld22/index.html
[1:35] <Thorn_> wiiguy: nope, stresstest on mineserver with > 50 people used 90mb memory and < 1% cpu
[1:36] <ShiftPlusOne> going to guess that's minicraft?
[1:36] <MuNk> minicraft :P
[1:36] <MuNk> =]
[1:36] <Dagger3> however I couldn't sucessfully connect a client because my host hardware was too slow. when the client connected, java maxed out the CPU and the client timed out before the server finished doing whatever it was doing
[1:36] <RITRedbeard> you said the evil word
[1:36] <RITRedbeard> java
[1:36] <Thorn_> java
[1:36] <RITRedbeard> java
[1:36] <Thorn_> makes me think of that really fat guy from star wars
[1:36] <Thorn_> jaba
[1:36] * RITRedbeard prepares to summon dark forces
[1:36] <Thorn_> kind of fitting
[1:36] <piofcube> Java the sl.... hmmm yeah
[1:37] <WASDx> Thorn_: that mineserver looks good
[1:37] <Thorn_> WASDx: #mineserver on freenode :P
[1:37] <RITRedbeard> Yeah, more like Jaba, am I right? I mean the virtual machine like takes up half of your damn resources.
[1:37] <RITRedbeard> Always on the top of top.
[1:37] <RITRedbeard> What is up with that?
[1:37] <ShiftPlusOne> ...
[1:37] <wiiguy> <MuNk> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ld48/ld22/index.html < lol trying this game made me feel liek a pokemon could popup @ any moment :p
[1:37] <Thorn_> you know the best example for how horrible java is?
[1:37] <Thorn_> Android.
[1:37] <WASDx> top of top :P
[1:37] <RITRedbeard> And everything is abstracted.
[1:37] <RITRedbeard> OH
[1:37] <RITRedbeard> Didn't you know? int is a class
[1:37] <ReggieUK> I'm just gonna throw this out there and see how ti goes
[1:38] <RITRedbeard> Errr, sorry, come again?
[1:38] <Thorn_> yep
[1:38] <ReggieUK> minecraft is crap
[1:38] <WASDx> int is a datatype?
[1:38] <Thorn_> hashmap.add(new Integer(myint)) :((
[1:38] <WASDx> You can add myint directly
[1:38] <MuNk> pokemon, that was after my time..... GoldenAxe and Sonic is were its at, not this pokemon crap :P
[1:38] <Thorn_> WASDx: not in java you can't.
[1:38] <WASDx> yes
[1:38] <WASDx> i'm sure
[1:38] <Thorn_> [citation needed]
[1:38] <RITRedbeard> How can I break int down into constituent parts? Words, nibbles, bytes, bits? Abstract that ya jerk.
[1:38] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: you are doing it wr.... WAIT WHAT ARE YOU DOING ?, meh i am off killing some time by actually killing time)
[1:38] <WASDx> it's initialized as HashMap<Integer, Integer>
[1:39] <WASDx> but you can add normal ints
[1:39] <Thorn_> you can't add normal ints, the last time i dealt with this issue was just today
[1:39] <Thorn_> you have to pad your int in Integer
[1:39] <RITRedbeard> This is why we can't have nice things.
[1:39] <WASDx> let me search the interwebs then
[1:39] <RITRedbeard> I guess on the plus side you could probably write your own OS in the JVM.
[1:40] <RITRedbeard> There is probably someone who has done it.
[1:40] <Thorn_> well, you can write your own os in anything
[1:40] <Thorn_> someone did it in javascript
[1:40] <WASDx> Thorn_: example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5371718/java-integer-list
[1:40] * Thorn_ finds link->
[1:40] <WASDx> List is initialized with Integer, but you can put ints directly
[1:40] <piofcube> you've heard what a camel is... A horse made by a committee... Java is the same idea LOL
[1:41] <Thorn_> WASDx: he's putting numbers in, the compiler/jit will pad it with the most appropriate type (Integer) automatically
[1:41] <WASDx> i see
[1:41] <Thorn_> now do int myInt = 10, myCoords.add(myInt) and show me that working
[1:41] <RITRedbeard> >:|
[1:41] * RITRedbeard goes to his switch panel, disgruntled.
[1:42] <RITRedbeard> opcode in, next addr, opcode in, next addr
[1:42] <WASDx> let me try myself... i'm very sure it works. But they List may convert the ints to Integer
[1:42] <ShiftPlusOne> There are no Java developers here to say "It's not my fault you don't know how to program efficiently in java!" and then take criticism of java extremly personally?
[1:43] <Thorn_> as a java (well, android app developer) there's nothing more fun than slagging java
[1:43] <RITRedbeard> android app dev, huh? what are you doing with Raspberry Pi?
[1:43] <RITRedbeard> CONSPIRING WITH THE ENEMY?!?!?!?!
[1:43] <Thorn_> cat *.java | wc -l
[1:43] <Thorn_> 1866 <- it's been a nightmare :(
[1:44] <WASDx> Thorn_: List<Integer> list = new ArrayList<Integer>(); int x = 5; list.add(x); //works perfectly fine
[1:44] <Thorn_> one sec, testing
[1:44] <WASDx> :>
[1:45] <Thorn_> huh
[1:45] <Thorn_> why doesn't that work for hashmaps then?
[1:45] <WASDx> i'll try that too
[1:45] <Thorn_> wait
[1:45] * Thorn_ checks hashmap
[1:46] <WASDx> works too
[1:46] <WASDx> Map<Integer, Integer> map = new HashMap<Integer, Integer>(); int x = 5; map.put(x, x);
[1:46] <RITRedbeard> Lotus Notes is at least partially written in Java.
[1:47] <Thorn_> wtf
[1:47] <Thorn_> yes it doesn't give an error anymore
[1:47] <WASDx> Thorn_: maybe you tried the method "add" which doesnt exists
[1:47] <WASDx> as you typed earlier when we argued
[1:47] <Thorn_> WASDx: i've been dealing with that issue all week! it definitely didnt work
[1:47] <Thorn_> i even had to google the issue, and found a whole suite of people saying that you must pad it in Integer
[1:47] <WASDx> has always worked for me
[1:47] <Thorn_> oO
[1:48] <WASDx> 01:39 < Thorn_> hashmap.add(new Integer(myint)) :((
[1:48] <WASDx> there is no add method
[1:48] <WASDx> maybe that was your problem
[1:48] <Thorn_> the add was just a mistake when typing it on irc
[1:48] <WASDx> ok
[1:49] <Thorn_> i'm trying to find the links which explained the requirement for padding in Integer
[1:49] <WASDx> well i have no idea what your problem was then
[1:50] <WASDx> maybe you needed that in older java versions
[1:50] <WASDx> just came across some code where they did pad it as you say
[1:51] <Thorn_> all the links/references which explained the requirement clearly have dissapeared from the internet
[1:51] <Thorn_> i was not smoking funny stuff when i found them!
[1:51] <Thorn_> this is obviously a conspiracy
[1:51] <WASDx> haha
[1:53] <Thorn_> haha
[1:53] <Thorn_> Starting with Java 1.5, with boxing and unboxing, the compiler will sometimes automatically do the conversions to and from int and Integer for you so you can treat int and Integer as if they were almost the same thing.
[1:53] <WASDx> yeah
[1:53] <Thorn_> so yeah, seems that's not required anymore
[1:53] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[1:53] <WASDx> int y = new Integer(4);
[1:53] <WASDx> Integer z = 4;
[1:53] <WASDx> works fine
[1:53] <Thorn_> oh well, thanks for pointing out my mistake :P
[1:54] <Thorn_> i'd have just used it as extra fuel to mock java otherwise :P
[1:54] <wwalker> only in Jawa is 128 != 128
[1:54] <WASDx> wwalker: how come?
[1:55] <Thorn_> unfortunately, wwalker is programmed in java, so we need to wait a good 5 minutes for him to process an answer :P
[1:56] <WASDx> haha
[1:56] <WASDx> i wish java was good :/ it's what school taught me
[1:56] <WASDx> so it'
[1:56] <WASDx> it's what i'm best at
[1:56] <Thorn_> imo C should be taught for before java
[1:57] <Thorn_> java makes it far too easy to not clean up after yourself
[1:57] <ReggieUK> c should be taught despite java more like
[1:57] <WASDx> like my mom lol
[1:57] <Thorn_> and imo the 'garbage collector' does a damn poor job
[1:57] <WASDx> I guess Java is easier as a first language
[1:57] <ReggieUK> if you want to write webapps
[1:57] <WASDx> i know php
[1:58] <WASDx> and some python
[1:58] <ReggieUK> again, webstuff.....
[1:58] <Thorn_> me too
[1:58] <WASDx> but not for webapps
[1:58] <Thorn_> SSSSssssssssss
[1:58] <WASDx> mineserver looks good
[1:58] <Thorn_> (sorry, terrible joke stolen from bash :( )
[1:59] <Thorn_> WASDx: mineserver2 makes all plugins communicate over OpenMP (network)
[1:59] <Thorn_> so does most core functionality
[1:59] <Thorn_> meaning any server can scale infinitely
[1:59] <Thorn_> MMOcraft anyone? ;)
[2:00] <WASDx> the FAQ should really state it can't run an ordinary minecraft server
[2:00] <Thorn_> also, it compiles on arm/x86/ppc/ big/small/middle/upsidedown endianess...
[2:00] <Thorn_> WASDx: what do you mean?
[2:00] <WASDx> everyone asks it
[2:00] <Thorn_> apart from the lack of redstone and minecarts, uh, it can
[2:00] <WASDx> "frequantly asked questions"
[2:00] <Thorn_> oh and all the new 1.0.0 stuff
[2:00] <Thorn_> enchantments and all that jazz
[2:01] <Thorn_> hey
[2:01] <Thorn_> mineserver implemented the new map format before Notch did :)
[2:01] <ShiftPlusOne> meh... people are kind of getting over minecraft nowadays anyway
[2:02] <ShiftPlusOne> apart from 12 year olds
[2:02] <WASDx> I actually have statistics on that
[2:02] <ShiftPlusOne> and admining a server full of 12 year olds sucks
[2:02] <Dagger3> WASDx: like I said, I did try the minecraft server in qemu, and it looked very much like it would have worked fine if my CPU was slightly faster... has somebody else confirmed that it doesn't work?
[2:02] <WASDx> my server has stored how many people that has bought the game during the last 24 hours for 2 months. It has started to go down.
[2:02] <WASDx> Dagger3: the ordinary java server?
[2:02] <Thorn_> ofcourse it will go down
[2:03] <Thorn_> minecraft is released now
[2:03] <ShiftPlusOne> WASDx, maybe your server is just getting less popular
[2:03] <Thorn_> there's nothing 'more' for people to expect
[2:03] <wwalker> WASDx: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/146329/what-is-the-worst-gotcha-youve-experienced/1855572#147877 at the top. autoboxing in Javaz
[2:03] <WASDx> ShiftPlusOne: http://www.minecraft.net/stats
[2:03] <Thorn_> and it's buggier than it was in Alpha...
[2:03] <WASDx> that number
[2:03] <Dagger3> yes, the ordinary java server -- the one from https://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftDownload/launcher/minecraft_server.jar
[2:03] <Thorn_> and beyond that, the price has gone from ??5 to ??17 !
[2:04] <WASDx> wwalker: haha
[2:04] <WASDx> It's because in this case == compares the pointer
[2:04] <WASDx> and more/less than converts to an int
[2:05] <WASDx> I've tried a minecraft server on a 512mb machine with some other stuff running and that reaches max ram usage with a few people
[2:06] <wwalker> WASDx: yup, but that's just wrong....
[2:06] <ShiftPlusOne> it's about 5 people per 512mb isn't it?
[2:06] <Thorn_> roughly
[2:06] <WASDx> Plus some initial value i guess
[2:06] <Thorn_> used to talk to the guy that runs Godcraft (200 player server)
[2:06] <Thorn_> the hardware he had devoted to mc was ridiculous
[2:06] <wwalker> I tried minecraft java server on a Amazon micro instance. 784MB or 640 MB whichever, just wasn't eno7ugh most of the time.
[2:07] <WASDx> 100mb per player.. ridiculous
[2:07] <ShiftPlusOne> 200 players O_O
[2:07] <Thorn_> yep
[2:07] <Thorn_> 12-core sandybridge (this was when they JUST came out) and 16gb mem allocated to one java instance
[2:07] <ShiftPlusOne> jesus... I thought running a 15 people server was too expensive.
[2:07] <WASDx> 1mb per player should be enough
[2:07] <Thorn_> he had to restart his minecraft server every hour to stop it crashing
[2:07] <ShiftPlusOne> ah
[2:08] <Thorn_> WASDx: it's not the player, it's whether that player is in a different area of the map (making the server load new chunks etc)
[2:08] <Thorn_> but yeah, 100mb, regardless of view point, is ridiculous
[2:08] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah... on my server some people went 'exploring' in different directions and kept crashing the server. Had to add a border.
[2:09] <WASDx> Once I found a gold ore one block beyond such a border ShiftPlusOne >:(
[2:09] * curlybob (~blue@cpc3-ward8-2-0-cust346.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:09] <Dagger3> I think you can now reduce the number of chunks kept loaded around a player, so you should be able to reduce the memory consumption a bit via that
[2:09] <wwalker> ouch, the grass is golder on the other side of the border
[2:10] <ShiftPlusOne> lol, yeah the mods did put random diamond blocks surrounded by lava in no-build areas.
[2:11] <wwalker> ouch
[2:12] <ShiftPlusOne> anyway... back to opengl before the functions I am using depreciate again.
[2:12] <Thorn_> depreciate or deprecate?
[2:13] <WASDx> spelling? deprecate i guess
[2:13] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... I thought it was the same word
[2:13] <ShiftPlusOne> deprecate it is then
[2:14] <Thorn_> they should make an opengl MUD
[2:14] <Thorn_> "A wild VBO appears!"
[2:15] <Thorn_> "You strike with ATI drivers!"
[2:15] <Thorn_> "Critical hit!"
[2:16] <ShiftPlusOne> sounds more like pokemon than a MUD
[2:16] <WASDx> ugh, ati drivers
[2:16] <Thorn_> yeah, and beyond that, ati drivers dont have any problems with vbo anymore
[2:16] <Thorn_> but intel integrated drivers sure do
[2:17] <ShiftPlusOne> are you talking about linux or ati drivers in general?
[2:17] <Thorn_> linux
[2:17] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[2:18] <WASDx> bedtime now, was nice talking to you :)
[2:18] <WASDx> i got irssi on a server so i'm always online
[2:18] <Thorn_> nn
[2:18] <Thorn_> it's only 1am
[2:18] <Thorn_> grab another beer
[2:18] <WASDx> 2 in sweden
[2:18] <WASDx> 2am that is
[2:19] <WASDx> not 2 beers
[2:19] <WASDx> goodnight :)
[2:19] <ReggieUK> switch to GMT and enjoy yourself
[2:21] <Thorn_> does anyone know that the 'OK' led is for on the final board?
[2:21] <Thorn_> (considering there's already a PWR)
[2:22] <ReggieUK> it lights up when you press the ok button
[2:22] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[2:22] <Thorn_> lol
[2:31] <Thorn_> wow
[2:31] <Thorn_> "<CheapSk8>Windows 98: A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition."
[2:59] * helber (~helber@ has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:07] <acfrazier> Thorn_, that saying has been around since 1998
[3:08] * helber (~helber@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:09] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, get with the times Thorn_
[3:09] <ShiftPlusOne> (nuh, I haven't heard it before either)
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[3:19] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:36] <duckinator> (happy|merry) $holiday, everyone!
[3:37] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[5:39] <ksx4system> hello. where can I buy Raspberry Pi board?
[5:39] <ksx4system> I know that it's not available in the raspberrypi.org shop
[5:39] <ksx4system> but I can't really believe that there's no single board to sell
[5:45] * ChristmasAlison is now known as RaspberryAlison
[5:49] * yang (yang@freenode/sponsor/cacert.assurer.yang) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[5:50] <Skummel> ksx4system you'll have to wait just as the rest of us.
[5:55] <azalyn> they're supposed to auction some on ebay for a bazillion dollars each at some point.
[5:55] <azalyn> not sure when.
[6:08] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-59-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[6:09] * ukscone_ (~ukscone@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[6:13] <ksx4system> azalyn: what's eta for general availability of Raspberry Pi under $50/each?
[6:14] <azalyn> i have no idea.
[6:14] <azalyn> i'm not staff or anything.
[6:14] <ksx4system> k
[6:14] <ksx4system> all in all, I should just stick to ITX boards
[6:14] <azalyn> they're in some sort of beta test phase right now.
[6:15] <ksx4system> I'd gladly get one without warranty but @ $25 price
[6:15] <ksx4system> I'm sure that more of us would live to do the same
[6:15] <azalyn> that's their eventual release price.
[6:15] <azalyn> the ebay thing is just a prerelease thing.
[6:15] <ksx4system> eventual...
[6:15] <ksx4system> cool
[6:16] <azalyn> that will be the price when they mass-produce.
[6:16] <azalyn> right now they're still just making samples.
[6:16] <azalyn> and testing them.
[6:16] <ksx4system> so probably they'll be selling networked version @ $100 and never even come under $50
[6:16] <ksx4system> sad but prolly true
[6:16] <azalyn> ...
[6:16] * ksx4system is not hater, just not an optimist
[6:16] <azalyn> they're a foundation.
[6:16] <azalyn> have you read what their goal is?
[6:16] <azalyn> they are not for profit.
[6:17] <ksx4system> no, FAQ page boils my CPU and freezes my web browser :(
[6:17] <azalyn> use noscript.
[6:17] <azalyn> some sort of javascript must be locking things up.
[6:17] * ksx4system fires up links/lynx to view this page again
[6:18] <ksx4system> btw my current main box (which is Intel Atom netbook) is very slow and some pages just freeze it
[6:18] <azalyn> their goal isn't massive performance.
[6:18] <azalyn> although it has the performance to run something like quake3
[6:18] <azalyn> and can do 1080p video.
[6:19] <azalyn> they want to create a cheap machine to hack on, that doesn't require massive amounts of money. for education mostly.
[6:19] <azalyn> the 25 dollar price is because it's about the same cost as a school textbook
[6:20] <ksx4system> dear Torvalds, FAQ page is around 2 megabytes! probably longest I've ever seen...
[6:20] <azalyn> linus torvalds is not affiliated with this project at all...
[6:20] <ksx4system> azalyn: I know :) but it'll still be nice to have another few low power home servers
[6:21] <ksx4system> azalyn: it was kind of a joke, some christian people say "dear God" and I sometimes say "dear Torvalds"
[6:21] <azalyn> darwin would've been easier to understand. :P
[6:21] <ksx4system> LOL :D
[6:22] <ksx4system> btw it'll be cool to design custom 2U 19" rack case and pack there for example 19 (18 nodes + 1 main) boards
[6:22] <ksx4system> ultra low power, extremelly sophisticated Linux cluster
[6:23] <ksx4system> these 19 boards + MikroTik router (RB450G for example, caseless of course) + 24 port switch (yes, caseless too)
[6:24] <ksx4system> cloud in a small box, near average low end 1U server pricetag
[6:25] <azalyn> i'm not sure if it'd be worth it in terms of performance-per-watt though.
[6:27] <wwalker> acfrazier: wrt "that saying has been around since 1998", yes, so " Windows 7, a bad GUI on a 64 bit patch to a 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition."
[6:27] <ksx4system> azalyn: who cares? at least it'll be fun
[6:27] <acfrazier> wwalker, except NT was 32-bit native from day 1 so your argument is invalid
[6:28] <wwalker> ksx4system: supposed to be available some time in January.
[6:28] <ksx4system> wwalker: kewl. how about shipping to east Europe (north Poland)?
[6:28] <wwalker> ksx4system: it really looks like the price will still be the $35.
[6:29] <ksx4system> yay :)
[6:31] <wwalker> ksx4system: no idae on the European shipping and taxes...
[6:31] <azalyn> i wonder what canadian shipping will be like
[6:32] <azalyn> project is in the usa right?
[6:32] <Shift_> UK
[6:33] <Shift_> and shipping is fairly cheap from UK
[6:33] <Shift_> nothing like USA
[6:33] <azalyn> hm, hopefully it is.
[6:34] <Shift_> it definitely is. you can check the cost online at whatever their post thing is
[6:34] <Shift_> it was like $7 to australia, so it should be cheaper around europe and about the same to US... I am guessing
[6:35] * Shift_ is now known as ShiftPlusOne
[6:35] <azalyn> hm, nice.
[6:35] <azalyn> by the way, how are they handling the whole pal/ntsc issue for the composite output?
[6:35] <azalyn> will it be a jumper or something?
[6:36] <ShiftPlusOne> do they need to handle it?
[6:37] <ShiftPlusOne> TVs can display either just fine, can't they?
[6:37] <azalyn> ok, you're in europe. right? ;P
[6:37] <azalyn> australia. hehe
[6:37] <ShiftPlusOne> I am in Australia
[6:38] <azalyn> no, north america isn't like that. none of the ntsc regions have compatibility for the most part.
[6:38] <wwalker> ShiftPlusOne: no
[6:38] <azalyn> you guys often import NTSC stuff, so TV vendors there implemented NTSC support.
[6:38] <azalyn> since it gave them a business advantage.
[6:38] <azalyn> over here however, we never import your stuff.
[6:38] <ShiftPlusOne> ok... never had any trouble with NTSC
[6:38] <azalyn> so TV vendors never implemented PAL.
[6:39] <azalyn> well, maybe the raspberry pi will just use NTSC, and be confident that 'most' europeans will be able to use it.
[6:39] <azalyn> hm
[6:39] <ShiftPlusOne> I'd guess all out TVs come from the same place anyway
[6:39] <azalyn> yes but they use different chipsets.
[6:39] <azalyn> there are different SKUs
[6:39] <ShiftPlusOne> ok
[6:39] <wwalker> Phase Alternating Line and Never Twice Same Color
[6:40] <ShiftPlusOne> well then... learned something new today then.
[6:40] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[6:41] <wwalker> azalyn: good question. They should teach us (the USA) a lesson and not support NTSC.
[6:41] <ShiftPlusOne> You guys should just switch to PAL
[6:41] <ShiftPlusOne> and the metrica system while you're at it.
[6:41] <ShiftPlusOne> *metric
[6:42] <wwalker> When I moved to the UK in 85, the first time I walked into a TV shoppe I was amazed. all the TVs looked about the same color wise. I'd never seen anything like it before.
[6:42] <wwalker> I was an electronics technician, with a TV background, and knew that what I was seeing was impossible....
[6:42] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[6:43] <azalyn> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/features-and-requests/video-modes
[6:43] <wwalker> I drive most of my colleagues nuts. I use klicks and meters and kilos and liters off the top of my head
[6:43] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:43] <azalyn> ``It can do PAL-BGHID, PAL-M, PAL-N, NTSC, NTSC_J. It just a matter of programming the TV-out hardware.''
[6:43] <azalyn> it seems to be a matter of software.. hm
[6:43] <azalyn> to select between ntsc and pal.
[6:44] <wwalker> uh, yes, but without a serial port and wrong video out , how do you select the right video in the first place?
[6:44] <ShiftPlusOne> They don't run that mingle crap on the forum anymore!? =D
[6:44] <azalyn> ``We might not support all standards from the beginning though.''
[6:44] <azalyn> :O
[6:45] <azalyn> wwalker: use a hdmi monitor i guess?
[6:45] <azalyn> gert says a text file on the sd card maybe
[6:45] <wwalker> I'll use HDMI, but some people don't have HDMI yet.
[6:45] <azalyn> which then would mean you need an sd reader/writer.
[6:45] <wwalker> oh, missed that part of his response.
[6:46] <wwalker> well, you'll need an sd writer no matter what.
[6:46] <azalyn> well, if it came with linux preinstalled, maybe not.
[6:46] <azalyn> load a ramdisk, unmount the sd card.
[6:46] <azalyn> then flash a new OS onto it
[6:47] <wwalker> I didn't think it was going to come with an SD card.
[6:47] <azalyn> yeah, probably now.
[6:47] <azalyn> er
[6:47] <azalyn> not**
[6:47] <azalyn> at first it likely won't come with much. they're targeting hobbyists until they can ramp up manufacturing.
[6:48] <azalyn> eventually once they get stable income they plan to populate their store with accessories, maybe sd cards will be one of them
[6:48] <azalyn> if education is the goal it would be good to eventually include an sd card with linux out of the box.
[6:49] <azalyn> once it becomes feasible.
[6:51] <RaspberryAlison> Ibought a 7" composite monitor to use with my forth coming R pi.
[6:53] <wwalker> I don't want to be involved in the battle of "which distro will be the standard that ships on the SD cards we sell...."
[6:53] <wwalker> ick
[6:53] <RaspberryAlison> wwalker: Can't it just be "select this as you order"
[6:53] <duckinator> wwalker: answer: ALL OF THEM
[6:53] <wwalker> RaspberryAlison: got a link to that monitor? or did you get it second hand?
[6:53] <RaspberryAlison> Between Debian, Arch, herp derp
[6:53] <RaspberryAlison> wwalker: hmm....
[6:53] <wwalker> Gentoo, fedora, centos, DSL,
[6:54] <wwalker> slackware, rock linux, openwrt, ddwrt, {free,net,open}bsd
[6:55] <azalyn> RaspberryAlison: do you have a link to that monitor?
[6:55] <azalyn> i'm curious
[6:55] <azalyn> i haven't seen 7" monitors
[6:55] <duckinator> RaspberryAlison: i'm curious as well :P
[6:55] <azalyn> wondering how cheap that would be
[6:55] <wwalker> I've seen some 7" USB LCDs, but only with windows proprietary drivers
[6:56] <azalyn> i would guess debian.
[6:56] <azalyn> since it's probably the most popular distro that could deal with the low resource requirements out of the box.
[6:56] <azalyn> and they seem to have been doing their demos on debian haven't they?
[6:57] <duckinator> wwalker: or the ones that cost basically $limb
[6:57] <azalyn> i don't think slackware has an arm port
[6:57] <azalyn> and not sure about arch either
[6:57] <RaspberryAlison> http://www.ebay.com/itm/330600420172?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[6:57] <RaspberryAlison> like fifty bucks
[6:57] <azalyn> wwalker: oh, the usb ones?
[6:57] <duckinator> azalyn: archlinux does, and it is/was listed as being supported from the start by the people making Pi (not sure if that was removed like Ubuntu was)
[6:58] <azalyn> there are actually experimental linux drivers for those
[6:58] <azalyn> the displaylink things
[6:58] <RaspberryAlison> it /is/ only 480x272 though/
[6:58] <duckinator> azalyn: not sure how well the arch port works, but it *exists* and there's plenty of interest to keep it from dying off
[6:59] <azalyn> duckinator: that's nice. i'd probably like arch on the r-pi myself.
[6:59] <RaspberryAlison> wwalker: azalyn duckinator http://www.ebay.com/itm/330600420172?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[7:00] <RaspberryAlison> there are 4" ones for around thirty bucks too
[7:00] <duckinator> azalyn: yea, i'm hoping to use arch exclusively on it, since arch's been my os of choice for over 4 years, and the only one i've installed (excluding VMs) in the past 2 years or so :)
[7:00] <RaspberryAlison> Ubuntu is my OS of choice since 2005
[7:00] <duckinator> azalyn: so i'm not particularly comfortable with others, and don't want to have to deal with that *AND* a new architecture simultaneously... haha
[7:01] <azalyn> i wonder, is s-video not available in europe? i thought it was part of SCART.
[7:01] <azalyn> since you can trivially convert s-video to composite.
[7:02] <RaspberryAlison> azalyn: Maybe not in the DIN connector, s-video signalling is definitely part of the scart connector though.
[7:02] <RaspberryAlison> iirc anyway, I'm a USonian what do i know
[7:02] <acfrazier> so has a sale date been announced, hence all the buzz?
[7:02] <azalyn> i wonder if svideo was too expensive for the pi.
[7:02] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: sup yo
[7:02] <acfrazier> RaspberryAlison, nm
[7:02] <acfrazier> (and yes I know who you are because of your hostmask)
[7:02] <ShiftPlusOne> stupid question I should know the answer to.... how many bytes are needed to store a pointer?
[7:03] <acfrazier> omg omg populated board
[7:03] <RaspberryAlison> ShiftPlusOne: stupid answer: python
[7:03] <ShiftPlusOne> that's not a stupid answer... that's not an answer at all. O_o
[7:04] <acfrazier> I'm curious as to where the SD slot is, or am I just retarded and it's on the top
[7:04] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: It's on the bottom
[7:04] <acfrazier> but.. I don
[7:04] <acfrazier> don't see it*
[7:04] <RaspberryAlison> The populated board pics dont have the SD slot soldered on for some reason.
[7:04] <acfrazier> ahh.
[7:04] <acfrazier> that's a bit strange.
[7:05] <ShiftPlusOne> to answer my own question "a 32-bit computer uses 32-bit memory addresses ? consequently, a pointer on a 32-bit machine is 32 bits (4 bytes). On a 64-bit machine, a pointer would be 64 bits (8 bytes). Note that this is true regardless of what is being pointed to"
[7:05] <acfrazier> well, I've got an 8GB class 4 SDHC whenever I can finally buy one
[7:05] <RaspberryAlison> I have three 2GB SD cards.
[7:05] <RaspberryAlison> I need moar ??SDs for my nookie though.
[7:05] <acfrazier> I actually had to buy one because I don't own any
[7:05] <azalyn> i'll have to buy another sd card.
[7:06] <azalyn> i have one in my camera, but i'm not going to use that one.
[7:06] <acfrazier> yes I know blasphemy he doesn't own any SD cards
[7:06] <azalyn> by the way, they're using SDHC i imagine?
[7:06] <azalyn> if i recall, both sdhc and sdhx can use the same socket, you just need different firmware.
[7:06] <RaspberryAlison> sdxc?
[7:06] <duckinator> RaspberryAlison: bit late, but the cost of those screens makes my wallet cry D:
[7:07] <azalyn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#SDXC
[7:07] <acfrazier> I still don't understand why they use esoteric forum software
[7:07] <azalyn> duckinator: 50 bucks is too much?
[7:07] <RaspberryAlison> Because it integrates in wordpress, probably.
[7:07] <RaspberryAlison> The new default avatars are fuckinghideous.
[7:07] <duckinator> azalyn: says $150, here ._.
[7:07] <azalyn> oh
[7:07] <acfrazier> meh, still has gravatar support
[7:07] <azalyn> damn
[7:07] <RaspberryAlison> duckinator: I bought mine for $47
[7:08] <duckinator> RaspberryAlison: ah, that's a bit less horrifying than the currently-listed price :)
[7:08] <RaspberryAlison> :P
[7:08] <azalyn> [01:00:35] <RaspberryAlison> like fifty bucks
[7:08] <duckinator> i missed that line :P
[7:08] <azalyn> yeah, that's where i got the 50 from
[7:08] <azalyn> i didn't notice the 150 on the ebay page
[7:08] <azalyn> at those prices i found like hdmi ones.. (still low res though, but at least it's digital)
[7:09] <acfrazier> if I could get onto eBay I could show you an AFFS 12.1" panel I bought a while ago that'd make for a killer tablet
[7:09] <acfrazier> for about $40 including the hardware needed to drive it that will do DVI out
[7:09] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: FUCKING
[7:10] <RaspberryAlison> wtf
[7:10] <acfrazier> checking if it's still live
[7:10] <RaspberryAlison> DVI to an AFFS 12.1" panel for forty bucks?
[7:10] <acfrazier> including panel
[7:10] <acfrazier> yes.
[7:10] <RaspberryAlison> 1400x1050?
[7:10] <acfrazier> yes.
[7:11] <RaspberryAlison> shit
[7:11] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:11] <RaspberryAlison> I'm thinking of upgrading the screen in my tc4400
[7:11] <azalyn> there's a 23 inch monitor on there for 150
[7:11] <azalyn> definitely not worth 150 for a 7 inch screen.
[7:11] <RaspberryAlison> azalyn: even touchscreen?
[7:12] <acfrazier> you can get a touch interface for this 12.1" panel for about another $20
[7:12] <acfrazier> so $60 for a fully functional touchscreen
[7:12] <RaspberryAlison> wacom?
[7:12] <acfrazier> not sure
[7:12] <acfrazier> been a while since I looked this up
[7:12] <RaspberryAlison> Could I interface this to the default display output hardware of an older tablet pc?
[7:13] <acfrazier> given that the panel is from a tablet PC to begin with, probably
[7:13] <RaspberryAlison> Because this model only ever had a 1024x768 (hp tc4400)
[7:14] * duckinator needs to stop being distracted and collect relevant info so his uncle can help him w/ his business plans in a place that happens to have no internet connection aside from dialup...
[7:14] <acfrazier> I love email
[7:15] <acfrazier> search
[7:15] <acfrazier> unfortunately, they are sold out.
[7:15] <acfrazier> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120645140617#ht_2669wt_881
[7:15] <acfrazier> this was the cheapest shit I eve bought
[7:15] <acfrazier> ever
[7:16] <acfrazier> think I have pics of it fired up with the hardware
[7:16] <acfrazier> lemme check
[7:17] <RaspberryAlison> That'd be a bomb ass upgrade for my laptop
[7:17] <acfrazier> apparently big brother has been using my image host site
[7:17] <acfrazier> the #geekhack one
[7:18] <RaspberryAlison> ponies?
[7:18] <acfrazier> no, weeaboo stuff
[7:18] <acfrazier> and he's like the only one I showed it to
[7:18] <acfrazier> lol
[7:18] <acfrazier> yep here's the panel pic
[7:18] <acfrazier> knew I had one
[7:19] <acfrazier> http://img.downloadsgalore.org/img0568.jpg
[7:19] <acfrazier> you'll recognize that IRC
[7:19] <acfrazier> :P
[7:19] <acfrazier> I had it hooked into VGA
[7:19] <azalyn> awm?
[7:19] <acfrazier> but it'll do DVI
[7:19] <acfrazier> that's Xfce
[7:20] <azalyn> oh. you enlarged the panel and made it transparent
[7:20] <azalyn> it's like that by default actually not that i think of it..
[7:20] <azalyn> >.<
[7:20] <azalyn> i change mine usually.
[7:21] <acfrazier> this install I don't even have anymore
[7:21] <acfrazier> but the point is it works
[7:21] <duckinator> i'm currently using xfce, awn + DockBarX, and a top xfce-panel that auto-hides w/ gnome2-globalmenu beaten into working with it. pure win. :D
[7:21] <duckinator> ofc if you tried using my desktop and like using the menus, you'd probably want to kill me
[7:21] * RaspberryAlison uses gnome2 with gnome-panel
[7:21] <azalyn> fehhhhhhhhhhhhhh @ global menu.
[7:21] <RaspberryAlison> azalyn: that is my image viewer oc choice
[7:21] <acfrazier> I could live with just that dock at the bottom
[7:21] <azalyn> i use xfce and make it look like gnome2
[7:21] <duckinator> azalyn: i did that because i don't ever use the menus, but having them available is nice
[7:22] <acfrazier> but I have the menu because most installed things go there
[7:22] <acfrazier> this was back when I was bitcoin mining
[7:22] <duckinator> azalyn: because sometimes software designers are all HERP DERPITY DERP DERP and forget to make it usable
[7:22] <acfrazier> I should show you guys my nutso mining rigs
[7:22] <acfrazier> that are now sold because I made a lot of money and then cashed out
[7:23] <azalyn> on macs even the toolbars sometimes get thrown on top.
[7:23] <azalyn> like with photoshop
[7:23] <azalyn> i don't like menubars either that much.. but the thing is, i don't think global menu works with everything..
[7:23] <azalyn> the app has to be aware of it..
[7:24] <azalyn> so you still have apps with menubars .. no?
[7:24] <acfrazier> http://img.downloadsgalore.org/img0605.jpg
[7:24] <acfrazier> this was one of them
[7:24] <acfrazier> I had 2 of these bad boys going
[7:24] <acfrazier> (I later realized that 1000W PSU had the fan on the bottom and was boiling lava hot so I flipped it on its side facing the window
[7:24] <RaspberryAlison> oOH GOD THAT ROOM FAN
[7:25] <acfrazier> and also installed a window AC unit
[7:25] <acfrazier> I did some crazy shit
[7:25] <duckinator> azalyn: it works with all GTK+ apps, so i have a few Qt apps that have menus -- only things i use regularly where the menus still show up are blender (they're some sort of custom deal...) and VirtualBox
[7:25] <acfrazier> now mind you
[7:25] <acfrazier> this was 2500W+ coming off of one outlet
[7:25] <acfrazier> I wonder how my house didn't burn down
[7:25] <RaspberryAlison> that's a hideous kludge
[7:25] <acfrazier> of course
[7:25] <acfrazier> because I was insane and spent $4000 on computers just to mine bitcoins
[7:26] <acfrazier> made it all back, sold the hardware, and had myself a sweet rig.
[7:26] <duckinator> acfrazier: holy crap. those GPUs look like they could each devour my desktop 20 times over...
[7:27] <acfrazier> there was absolutely no fucking way I would get any of that shit into a case
[7:27] <acfrazier> I tried
[7:27] <acfrazier> and failed miserably
[7:27] <azalyn> given the heat, it's best not to put it in a case.
[7:27] <acfrazier> it got so hot that the surface of the sun was probably the only hotter thing
[7:27] <acfrazier> yeah
[7:27] <acfrazier> that's why I didn't
[7:27] <acfrazier> literally as soon as I started up 4 mining threads it turned off
[7:27] <duckinator> of course, my desktop has gaping holes and duct tape on the case, so something *looking* 20x more powerful isn't particularly difficult...
[7:27] <acfrazier> this machine was purpose built
[7:27] <acfrazier> sempron, 2gb ram, the rest is all GPUs
[7:28] <duckinator> wow, nice
[7:28] <azalyn> RaspberryAlison: what's your image viewer of choice, by the way..?
[7:28] <RaspberryAlison> sempr0n
[7:28] <azalyn> that seemed to come out of the blue
[7:28] <RaspberryAlison> azalyn: feh
[7:28] <azalyn> oh. lawlz
[7:28] <duckinator> acfrazier: what's your normal desktop's (or laptop's, if you use that the most) specs?
[7:28] <acfrazier> my normal desktop that I built after I sold off those bitcoin rigs
[7:30] <acfrazier> 16GB DDR3 1600, Xeon E3-1235, MSI Z68A-GD55, 2TB green, 3TB seagate something, 120GB intel 320 series SSD, 24" 1920x1200 dell U2412M, IBM model M industrial built sometime in 1994, and a logitech g9
[7:30] <acfrazier> oh and
[7:30] <acfrazier> 2x MSI 6950 2GB twin frozr III
[7:30] <duckinator> woah O.O
[7:30] <acfrazier> unlocked.
[7:30] <duckinator> i feel like that could outperform all computers in every house on my block combined...
[7:31] <acfrazier> I still have those studio monitors in that pic btw
[7:31] <RaspberryAlison> duckinator: 3.5GB DDR2, C2D T7200, 160GB Scorpio Blue, 12" 1024x768, Intel graphics
[7:31] <azalyn> i would like an image viewer written in C, that can browse zip/rar/etc archives.. and act as a good comic book viewer. also i'd like a decent amount of zoom options. and the ability to open the next archive in the directory when you scroll off of the last page in the current archive.
[7:31] <acfrazier> that is one of the best purchases I ever made
[7:31] <RaspberryAlison> ^^My main computer
[7:31] <acfrazier> Behringer MS40s
[7:31] <acfrazier> love those things
[7:31] <azalyn> 'comix' basically meets every criteria except it's python. >:|
[7:32] <azalyn> i've been using it since there isn't anything else
[7:32] <acfrazier> I wish a panel deal like that would pop up again
[7:32] <acfrazier> I'd buy about 5 in a heartbeat.
[7:32] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: Where do you get the driverboardthings?
[7:33] <azalyn> i can't even find a composite one for 50 bucks. like RaspberryAlison found.
[7:33] <acfrazier> let me check
[7:33] <acfrazier> they still sell them
[7:33] <duckinator> my desktop: 8GB DDR3 1600, 2.8GHz AMD Phenom II x4, ASUS M4A77TD, 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 20" 1600x900 Acer x203H, HP failerific keyboard that makes my hands hurt, Microsoft Optical IntelliMouse
[7:33] <acfrazier> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280658269932&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123#ht_8535wt_897
[7:33] <acfrazier> they sell touch modules too
[7:33] <acfrazier> and will preprogram it to your panel
[7:33] <acfrazier> that's the one I bought
[7:33] <acfrazier> probably a newer listing
[7:34] <duckinator> oh, and my graphics card is a passively-cooled ATi Radeon HD 5450
[7:34] <azalyn> so that little thing converts LVDS to either vga or dvi?
[7:34] <acfrazier> yep
[7:34] <acfrazier> it has onboard sound too iirc
[7:34] <RaspberryAlison> Cool, so I could buy a replacement MBP 17" panel and have a 17" 1920x1200 monitor
[7:34] <azalyn> that's pretty nifty..
[7:34] <acfrazier> well I mean you could buy one with onboard sound
[7:34] <azalyn> i thought that LCDs all had proprietary junk and would be impossible to interface with
[7:34] <acfrazier> the one I purchased did not
[7:35] <acfrazier> LVDS is pretty standard stuff, you just have to tell them what panel you have before you buy
[7:35] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: Do you have to make your own harnessing?
[7:35] <acfrazier> RaspberryAlison, I'll probably end up building my own tablet case
[7:35] <acfrazier> I was going to shove that panel into some kind of dolch mod originally
[7:35] <acfrazier> but then I said screw iyt
[7:35] <azalyn> what's the usual cost of a typical touch panel
[7:35] <acfrazier> s/iyt/it/
[7:35] <azalyn> can you get one for under 100 ?
[7:35] <duckinator> that's pretty nifty, but chaining adapters == :( so i'd end up poking around for LVDS<->Composite/HDMI
[7:36] <acfrazier> they had one with HDMI
[7:36] <acfrazier> but I didn't need it at the time.
[7:36] <duckinator> ah, gotcha
[7:36] <acfrazier> my original plan was to make it into a luggable, not a tablet
[7:36] <acfrazier> lol
[7:36] <duckinator> haha
[7:36] <azalyn> if it has onboard sound, hdmi would be nice..
[7:36] <duckinator> acfrazier: luggables are still nice ;)
[7:37] <acfrazier> yeah, was modding one of these
[7:37] <acfrazier> http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/icbob/BhLDLN2kKGrHqQH-CwEsLtZHGIBLH-9QNS9_12.jpg
[7:37] <duckinator> ooh
[7:37] <acfrazier> this particular unit has dual ppros
[7:37] <acfrazier> was beastly
[7:37] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:37] <RaspberryAlison> dual Pentium Pros?Shit
[7:38] <acfrazier> yep
[7:38] <acfrazier> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LVDS-VGA-DVI-AV-HDMI-LCD-controller-board-DIY-2662-/270869762325?pt=COMP_EN_Networking_Components&hash=item3f11189115#ht_8750wt_1156
[7:38] <acfrazier> here's the one I think most of you will want
[7:38] <acfrazier> native HDMI and sound
[7:38] <acfrazier> can always desolder the unneeded connectors
[7:39] <acfrazier> earlier this year I researched a lot of this crap extensively
[7:39] <acfrazier> this looks like it also has composite out
[7:40] <azalyn> so what's a panel usually go for?
[7:41] <azalyn> when you don't find a good deal like that
[7:41] <azalyn> like a touch one
[7:41] <acfrazier> for AFFS you're probably looking at about $100-150 for a 12.1" panel
[7:41] <duckinator> azalyn: i'm guessing somewhere between $leg and $soul
[7:41] <acfrazier> but it has insane viewing angles
[7:42] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: are most tablet screens AFFS?
[7:42] <acfrazier> RaspberryAlison, yes
[7:42] <acfrazier> most ones that were originally in 500 year old laptops are not, though
[7:42] <acfrazier> so you have to watch
[7:42] <RaspberryAlison> s/00//
[7:43] <acfrazier> basically, if you want a decent panel: do your research
[7:44] <azalyn> http://www.ebay.com/itm/320806008760
[7:44] <RaspberryAlison> azalyn: 1024x768, dont do it
[7:44] <acfrazier> ^
[7:44] <acfrazier> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Compaq_TC4400
[7:45] <azalyn> does that really matter for something like the r-pi?
[7:45] <acfrazier> you are probably used to screens with insanely dense pixels
[7:45] <acfrazier> it will make your eyes bleed.
[7:46] <acfrazier> hell, my phone has 980x640 in 3.5" of space
[7:46] <azalyn> so many laptops today have shitty 1366x768
[7:46] <RaspberryAlison> My most pixelly dense display is 320x480 in 3.2", then 1024x600 in 7"
[7:47] <acfrazier> you will probably want at least SXGA+
[7:47] <acfrazier> for a 12.1" panel
[7:47] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: Isn't sxga+ basicall y all you can get an a 12" panel?
[7:47] <acfrazier> no, you can get WSXGA+
[7:47] <acfrazier> 1680x1050
[7:48] <RaspberryAlison> really?
[7:48] <acfrazier> yep
[7:48] <RaspberryAlison> crazyass tablets
[7:48] <acfrazier> heh, they are starting to have QXGA screens in a 9.7" form factor
[7:48] <acfrazier> you read that right
[7:48] <acfrazier> 2048x1536
[7:49] <acfrazier> in 9.7"
[7:49] <RaspberryAlison> iPad 3 Retina Display?
[7:49] <acfrazier> yes, they actually are cranking them out now
[7:49] * duckinator dies of confusion
[7:49] <duckinator> i unmounted a USB drive, and my monitor went into standby
[7:49] <acfrazier> if the iPad 3 comes out
[7:49] <acfrazier> and has 2048x1536
[7:49] <acfrazier> I am buying it day 1
[7:49] <azalyn> where in the hell are you seeing any of that stuff?
[7:49] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: to hell with the fucking ipad3
[7:49] <azalyn> almost everything i see in the industry these days is 1366x768
[7:50] <azalyn> everyone has switched to that shitty resolution
[7:50] <RaspberryAlison> i want that screen in a laptop
[7:50] <acfrazier> RaspberryAlison, you can buy a panel, but will pay out the ass for it
[7:50] <azalyn> screw anything apple.
[7:50] <azalyn> ;P
[7:51] <acfrazier> actually wait I think I just came a little
[7:51] <acfrazier> I googled and found 10.1" 2048x1536 panels
[7:51] <acfrazier> for $72
[7:51] <ShiftPlusOne> Why? Apple products have some awesome features. They are overpriced and have many flaws, but at least they are trying new things.
[7:51] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: linkplz
[7:51] <acfrazier> http://www.screentekinc.com/notebook-lcd-panel.shtml
[7:51] <acfrazier> they take paypal
[7:51] <acfrazier> so
[7:51] <RaspberryAlison> but doesn't QXGA require dual link dvi?
[7:51] <acfrazier> I am seriously tempted as fuck
[7:52] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: how are you going to drive that thing
[7:52] <acfrazier> magic.
[7:52] <acfrazier> nah but I'll figure it out
[7:54] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: that's probably errataed
[7:54] <azalyn> what in the HELL.
[7:54] <azalyn> are these like aftermarket screens?
[7:54] <azalyn> for mainstream laptops!?
[7:54] <acfrazier> I have no fucking idea
[7:54] <acfrazier> but seriously if they are this cheap and legit
[7:54] <azalyn> dude, i've been looking for something like this.
[7:54] <RaspberryAlison> the googles tell me the aspire one pro 531h hs an atom n270
[7:54] <acfrazier> http://www.bbb.org/houston/business-reviews/computers-supplies-and-parts/screentek-inc-in-houston-tx-31004986/
[7:54] <acfrazier> they have A+ with bbb
[7:54] <acfrazier> so they have to be legit
[7:54] <azalyn> just the other day i was saying.. i wish i could replace the screen in laptops
[7:54] <azalyn> then i'd buy the low-res ones right away
[7:55] <azalyn> if i knew i could just swap them out for something better
[7:55] <azalyn> jesus, even in the 10 inch range.. that's insane. madness.
[7:55] <RaspberryAlison> THERE ARE LAPTOPS AT BEST BUY THAT A 1366x768 IN A 17" SCREEN.
[7:55] <RaspberryAlison> OH THE MADNESS.
[7:56] <acfrazier> 1366x768 in 17"
[7:56] <acfrazier> you have got to be fucking with me
[7:56] <acfrazier> there is no way
[7:56] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: I wish I were.
[7:56] <azalyn> i know, what is the world coming to.
[7:56] <azalyn> :(
[7:56] <azalyn> the problem is people buy this shit.
[7:56] <azalyn> they don't know.
[7:56] <azalyn> hopefully r-pi can change that. turn the entire world into hackers.
[7:57] <acfrazier> meh
[7:57] <azalyn> then the markets will change.
[7:57] <azalyn> :P
[7:57] <acfrazier> rpi can't increase the entire world's IQ level
[7:57] <azalyn> the more elitist geeks there are, the more encouraged others will be to learn a thing or two. since they'll be ashamed to show their ignorance.
[7:58] <azalyn> no 14 inchers on that page, but that's ok i guess.
[7:58] <RaspberryAlison> the more elitist geeks there are, the more the mainstream will get fed up with us and ban us from best buy
[7:58] <azalyn> i always thought 14 would be ideal for me
[7:59] <acfrazier> I have actually been banned from a best buy
[7:59] <acfrazier> it's not hard at all
[7:59] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: ooh, wat'd you do?
[7:59] <azalyn> did you laugh at the geek squad?
[7:59] <acfrazier> no, I gave good advice to some idiot who was being conned
[7:59] <azalyn> this should be good.
[7:59] <acfrazier> funny thing is as they were showing me the door, guy walks out and hands me a hundred dollar bill
[7:59] <acfrazier> they actually forced me out the door
[7:59] <acfrazier> and said you are no longer welcome here
[7:59] <acfrazier> please leave
[7:59] <acfrazier> but basically what happened
[8:00] <acfrazier> is this sales douche was selling these old people a laptop that was like maximum rice
[8:00] <acfrazier> and they only needed internet and email
[8:00] <acfrazier> so I said, here buy this
[8:00] <acfrazier> and he got all pissy
[8:00] <acfrazier> called manager
[8:00] <acfrazier> manager calls security
[8:00] <acfrazier> and the entire time I'm just like
[8:00] <acfrazier> Does it need to go this far?
[8:00] <acfrazier> but I didn't feel like being arrested
[8:01] <acfrazier> so I just let them walk me out of the store.
[8:01] <azalyn> if the guy paid you, then he probably knew they were bullshitting him.
[8:01] <acfrazier> now I am banned from that best buy
[8:01] <azalyn> and appreciated the honesty
[8:01] <acfrazier> and about 4 others in this region
[8:01] <acfrazier> because apparently the shitlist spreads
[8:01] <acfrazier> I wonder how they know who I am
[8:01] <acfrazier> is my face matched to some database?
[8:02] <acfrazier> but yeah that was probably the easiest (and saddest) $100 I've ever made
[8:02] <acfrazier> the irony is best buy has had nothing worth buying
[8:02] <acfrazier> that I couldn't get online
[8:03] <RaspberryAlison> for heaps cheper
[8:03] <acfrazier> the only thing I was tempted to put on a groucho marx glasses thing and walk in for was the HP touchpad
[8:03] <RaspberryAlison> why the fuck
[8:03] <acfrazier> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/GrouchonoseglassesSPK.jpg
[8:03] <acfrazier> one of these
[8:03] <acfrazier> it would've been hilarious
[8:04] <RaspberryAlison> Yeah, I know what a beaglepuss is
[8:04] <RaspberryAlison> But why the fuck touchpad, it's a dead platform with horrible hardware
[8:04] <acfrazier> because I can install arch linux native on it
[8:04] <acfrazier> boom
[8:04] <acfrazier> usable arm tablet
[8:04] <acfrazier> with almost zero work
[8:04] <RaspberryAlison> nook colour + cm7
[8:04] <RaspberryAlison> boom
[8:04] <acfrazier> meh
[8:04] <RaspberryAlison> usable arm tablet with almost zero work
[8:04] <acfrazier> android sucks
[8:05] <acfrazier> this is desktop arch I'm talking about
[8:05] <RaspberryAlison> desktop OSes suck on a touchscreen
[8:05] <RaspberryAlison> I know
[8:05] <acfrazier> http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1948
[8:05] <RaspberryAlison> having had a resistive touch Fujitsu Stylistic
[8:05] <acfrazier> implying this sucks
[8:05] <acfrazier> speaking of which I need to update
[8:05] <acfrazier> this is native
[8:05] <acfrazier> no chroot
[8:06] <azalyn> the touchpad is a great deal.
[8:06] <azalyn> it sucks i didn't get one.
[8:06] <acfrazier> I have 2 that I could use
[8:06] <azalyn> especially now that hp is opensourcing webos.
[8:06] <acfrazier> I bought oen for my mother
[8:06] <RaspberryAlison> I'm kind of disappointed in the state of running non-Android on the NC
[8:06] <acfrazier> but she never touched it
[8:06] <acfrazier> lol
[8:06] <RaspberryAlison> chroot + vnc smells of kludge
[8:06] <acfrazier> damn
[8:06] <acfrazier> bootie wants me to charge the tablet
[8:07] <azalyn> acfrazier: the catch with that site you found seems to be older laptops. although if you're looking for just the panel, not a bad deal at all
[8:08] <azalyn> how hard would it be to add a touch surface to that?
[8:08] <azalyn> i saw some on sale on ebay
[8:11] <acfrazier> not hard
[8:12] <azalyn> how do you stick'em together? duct tape? :P
[8:13] <acfrazier> 2 sided tape
[8:13] <acfrazier> around the outside of the digitizer
[8:15] <azalyn> ah, hm.
[8:17] <RaspberryAlison> <Peter^desoza> foriegner here coming india soon in search of true Love ladies with long black hairs & beautiful brown skin color with 36c-28-38 are warmly welcomed for wedding proposals
[8:17] <azalyn> :|
[8:26] <acfrazier> RaspberryAlison, what
[8:29] <RaspberryAlison> acfrazier: whut
[8:44] * feep (~feep@p5B2B2694.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:44] <feep> hi
[8:45] <feep> is the graphics api for the razzlepie documented anywhere?
[8:45] <feep> does it sort of match the mesa gles api?
[8:45] <feep> (I mean stuff like opening a window with a gles context)
[8:46] <feep> let me start again
[8:46] <feep> does anyone know how to open a window with a gles context, preferably in a way that will be easily portable to the rpi?
[8:46] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-59-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[9:02] * merlin1991 wonders how easy it's going to be to get a selfmade distro running on the pi
[9:02] <feep> how do I actually _use_ the accelerated graphics
[9:03] <feep> sdl seems to need 1.3 for gles support
[9:03] <feep> what's the recommended approach?
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[9:06] <ShiftPlusOne> opengl es
[9:06] <ShiftPlusOne> I think there was talk of opencl being supported as well
[9:07] <feep> opengles lets you draw great 3d graphics
[9:07] <feep> on a window provided by the underlying system
[9:07] <feep> what's the recommended approach to get the window?
[9:08] <feep> sdl 1.2 doesn't support gles
[9:08] <ShiftPlusOne> doesn't it?
[9:08] <feep> should I just hardcode the x11 stuff?
[9:08] <feep> it doesn't.
[9:08] <feep> gles support is 1.3.
[9:08] <ShiftPlusOne> balls
[9:08] <ShiftPlusOne> so why not use 1.3 then?
[9:08] <feep> sdl doesn't like it when two different versions are installed at the same time
[9:09] <feep> I did find a hack to get a gles context up on 1.2
[9:09] <feep> it's not cross-platform at all though
[9:09] <ShiftPlusOne> surely there's a freeglut port for arm?
[9:09] <feep> yeah but glut is .. hey, actually. does freeglut have gles support?
[9:10] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't even know... haven't messed around with ES yet
[9:10] <feep> trying to
[9:10] <feep> some cross-platformness would be nice also
[9:12] <ShiftPlusOne> I think it would just be best to get 1.2 and 1.3 together... or just stick to 1.3.
[9:14] <merlin1991> is there any concrete information on how they gpu drivers are going to be delivered?
[9:16] <ShiftPlusOne> delivered where? to the kernel or to you?
[9:16] <merlin1991> to the end user
[9:17] <ShiftPlusOne> don't know about concrete information, but I am guessing you'll be able to download them along with a pre-built kernel... if not, I am sure someone will extract it from the sdcard image anyway.
[9:17] <merlin1991> well In particular I wonder if it's going to be blobs, or actualy source
[9:17] <merlin1991> *actual*
[9:17] <ShiftPlusOne> oh.. yeah there will be some blobs
[9:18] <merlin1991> because the project I'd like to tackle would either need source, or blobs with a copyright that allows me to redistribute
[9:18] <ShiftPlusOne> got it
[9:18] <ShiftPlusOne> I'd be surprised if they didn't allow you to redistribute
[9:19] <ShiftPlusOne> maybe ask on the forum what the license type for it is.
[9:20] <azalyn> doesn't opengl-es use EGL?
[9:20] <azalyn> presumably that's what sdl is using..
[9:21] <azalyn> normally it'd use glx. for regular opengl. but opengl-es uses egl.
[9:22] <ShiftPlusOne> time to go kill some overgrowth alpha bunnies.
[9:23] <merlin1991> nice one
[9:23] <merlin1991> ShiftPlusOne: on win or on mac? :D
[9:23] <ShiftPlusOne> win, obviously =)
[9:36] <merlin1991> I'm working on an updater for win :)
[10:04] <ShiftPlusOne> isn't there one already?
[10:05] <ShiftPlusOne> http://forums.wolfire.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10490
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[10:27] <merlin1991> Shift_: though mine will preserve user edited content
[10:27] <merlin1991> and in general it's going to be better ;)
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[10:39] <Shift_> yeah, that one didn't work too well for me... I had an old install (121), it downloaded and installed all the updates, but none of the maps would load. I am guessing 121 goes too far back.
[10:49] <feep> azalyn: egl is useful, but doesn't actually let you open windows or do input handling
[10:49] <feep> azalyn: it's like khronos took a look at other toolkits and went
[10:49] <feep> "oh"
[10:49] <feep> "I think we understand what people need out of a cross-platform graphics library"
[10:50] <feep> "let's implement half of that. "
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[11:48] <friggle> let's be fair to khronos: coming up with a standard for windowing and input handling would be significantly harder than I imagine EGL was to agree on
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[12:45] <MuNk> good day all :)
[12:48] <theadder> hello
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[13:22] <LiENUS> i saw post bout beta boards
[13:23] <LiENUS> and now i need new boxers
[13:23] <LiENUS> so ima sue rasberrypi for new boxers
[13:24] <MuNk> 0.o?
[13:25] <ReggieUK> you can't blame raspberrypi for your incontinence
[13:26] <LiENUS> ReggieUK, i mean cos i jizzed in my boxers
[13:27] <LiENUS> actually a stupid lawsuit like that might not be a bad way to invoke the streissand effect
[13:27] <ReggieUK> yawn
[13:30] <LiENUS> lol at about page
[13:30] <LiENUS> the schools here require you to learn a language
[13:30] <LiENUS> the big school for this state requires a real language like german latin or even greek or italian
[13:30] <LiENUS> another smaller school allows html as your language
[13:32] <ReggieUK> ?
[13:33] <LiENUS> the about us page discusses how applicants to comp sci programs at unis are only experienced with webdesign and some not even that
[13:33] <LiENUS> and here we have schools counting html as a big pre req
[13:34] <ReggieUK> so what does german, latin, greek or italian have anything to do with IT education?
[13:34] <LiENUS> its about a well rounded edumacation
[13:35] <LiENUS> so you dont end up with comp sci gradiates spelling education and graduation as edumacation and gradiation
[13:35] <ReggieUK> oh right, so you're ignoring the fact that german and french are taught in state schools over here?
[13:35] <ReggieUK> or that we learn english language and english literature
[13:35] <LiENUS> i consider learning a foreign language as a requirement as a good thing
[13:36] <LiENUS> i consider counting html as a foreign language as retarded
[13:36] * MuNk refuses to feed the troll
[13:36] <MuNk> ReggieUK, GPIO allows you to power the R-Pi dosn't it?
[13:36] * ReggieUK woke up with the hump, well up for troll baiting
[13:36] <ReggieUK> no idea MuNk, I don't have the pinout
[13:37] <MuNk> ill go read wiki again :)
[13:37] <ReggieUK> :)
[13:37] <MuNk> \o/ yep
[13:38] <MuNk> top-row, 3pins 5v0,dnc,gnd
[13:38] <ReggieUK> cool
[13:40] <ReggieUK> I guess thinking that learning html as a foreign language as retarded is fairly dumb and conceited.
[13:41] <LiENUS> ReggieUK, you think html makes a good foreign language?
[13:42] <ReggieUK> it makes a foreign language
[13:42] <ReggieUK> and is better than nothing
[13:43] <ReggieUK> if you want to be vague about what you're saying and then jump on me because you haven't been understood, go ahead :)
[13:43] <ReggieUK> or just be clearer about what you're saying
[13:44] <LiENUS> i think an actuall foreign language would be a better idea
[13:45] <ReggieUK> is html your mother tongue?
[13:45] <LiENUS> latin and greek are cutting corners enough but they make up for it by having insanely passionate teachers
[13:45] <LiENUS> its not much of a spoken language
[13:45] <ReggieUK> latin is fairly important and releveant amongst scientists at least
[13:46] <ReggieUK> and whether a language is spoken or not is irrelevant, it's used extensively across the planet
[13:46] <LiENUS> latin fits the bill for a well rounded education precisely because its relevant amongst scientists
[13:47] <LiENUS> it also explains a shit ton of many languages characteristics
[13:47] <LiENUS> i've gotten A's in courses from giving a single presentation where i delve into the latin roots of a word and tie it back to the main concept for my presentation
[13:47] <ReggieUK> again, be clearer, you're last statement implied that latin was cutting corners, therefore is inferior
[13:48] <LiENUS> latin cuts corners because its not really spoken by anyone
[13:48] <LiENUS> html is just...
[13:48] <LiENUS> a sillly idea
[13:48] <ReggieUK> you mean like telling the planet you jizzed your pants because you saw a raspberrypi?
[13:48] <LiENUS> its not a bad idea to learn as part of a comp sci curriculum
[13:48] <ReggieUK> that kind of silly?
[13:49] <LiENUS> but its a poor part of a well rounded edumacation
[13:49] <LiENUS> indeed
[13:49] <ReggieUK> I see your education has served you well then.....
[13:49] <LiENUS> its as silly as getting on irc after doing several shots of everclear
[13:49] <LiENUS> tis what happens when you take html as a foreign language
[13:50] <ReggieUK> I wouldn't know, I don't drink alcohol and didn't take html as a foreign language
[13:51] <LiENUS> i drink like a fish but i'm only halfway through my foreign language, started latin but decided id rather go with german
[13:51] <LiENUS> my sister took html as her foreign language
[13:51] <LiENUS> and now she has a mba
[13:52] <LiENUS> thats what happens to people who take html as a foreign language]
[13:52] <ReggieUK> ahh, so not actually having finished your own educucation you feel qualified to determine what is and isn't a good education for someone else?
[13:52] <LiENUS> apparently somewhere in there i decided to introduce a syntax error
[13:52] <LiENUS> oh i have a degree already, actually im not planning on going comp sci
[13:53] <LiENUS> but i do have plenty of friends who did go comp sci, finished and they laugh at html as a foreign language
[13:53] <LiENUS> got said degree from the silly school that accepts html as a foreign language
[13:53] <LiENUS> getting another from a school that says that html is a silly foreign language
[13:55] * MuNk brain is starting to hurt trying to understand if the troll is trolling or just that dumb
[13:55] * ReggieUK thinks he really is that dumb
[13:55] <ReggieUK> but what would I know, I don't have a degree
[13:56] <LiENUS> MuNk, you think html should be a foreign language/
[13:56] <LiENUS> ?
[13:57] <MuNk> I hope your question is out of pure trolling and not the fact you dont have a understanding of the difference between a spoken lanuage used for communication between people and a computer language/markup SCRIPT but nothing wrong with living in hope right?
[13:57] <LiENUS> MuNk, i understand the difference
[13:57] <LiENUS> the schools around here dont
[13:58] <LiENUS> they count html as a spoken foreign language
[13:59] <ReggieUK> but your agument has centred around it not being a foreign language at all
[13:59] <ReggieUK> argument*
[14:00] <LiENUS> you consider t to be a foreign language/
[14:00] <ReggieUK> so it seems you do actually accept it as a foreign language
[14:00] <LiENUS> ?
[14:00] <LiENUS> what country speaks html?
[14:00] <LiENUS> current or historical
[14:00] <ReggieUK> a foreign language is anything that isn't your mother tongue
[14:01] <LiENUS> i'm unable to speak html
[14:01] <LiENUS> i'm not sure how one would go about such a thing
[14:02] <ReggieUK> and that's the same for me with latin, what's your point?
[14:02] <ReggieUK> I could learn both
[14:03] <ReggieUK> just because I am ignorant as to how to do it, doesn't mean it's not possible, it just means I'm ignorant
[14:03] <LiENUS> latin is easy to speak, keeping up with the current pronunciations gets difficult but pronouncing brackets gets to be rather improbable
[14:03] <ReggieUK> but still possible
[14:04] <LiENUS> how?
[14:04] <ReggieUK> LEARN?
[14:04] <LiENUS> my dog easily can speak latin
[14:04] <LiENUS> well
[14:04] <LiENUS> follow commands in latin
[14:04] <ReggieUK> of course it can, and you're a genius.....
[14:04] <LiENUS> im not sure how to teach it to sit in html
[14:05] <LiENUS> html is primarily a way of conveing meta information
[14:05] <ReggieUK> it's ok, it's not your fault that you're ignorant
[14:05] <LiENUS> conveying? however you speel it
[14:06] <ReggieUK> I see you've mastered english whilst simultaneously slating html?
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[14:23] <LiENUS> english is my second language
[14:24] <LiENUS> my mother tongue is bad english
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[15:52] <azalyn> LiENUS and ReggieUK, you two deserve an award.
[15:52] <azalyn> that has to be the most pointless debate i have ever seen on irc.
[15:52] <azalyn> congratulations.
[15:52] <LiENUS> i argued with a dude over the merits of marshmellow fluff vs marshmallows once
[15:53] <azalyn> marshmallows are serious business.
[15:53] <LiENUS> so is the internet
[15:54] <azalyn> i've had pointless debates before, but at least they were entertaining. this one however had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. :P
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[16:53] <Thorn_> i just realised
[16:54] <Thorn_> it's the same azalyn from #iodoom3
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[17:14] <ukscone> morning all
[17:15] <WASDx> evening
[17:15] <Thorn_> more news on the boards \o/
[17:18] <WASDx> yay
[17:18] <merlin1991> inbuilt fail in the schematics
[17:18] <merlin1991> yay
[17:18] <WASDx> i hope that wont mean delay, in case they have to orde a small amount of updated boards to test
[17:19] <Thorn_> yeah it definitely will
[17:19] <Thorn_> it's february for release now
[17:19] * Thorn_ giggles
[17:19] <Thorn_> huh no
[17:19] * Thorn_ cackles
[17:26] <MuNk> http://proto-pic.co.uk/serial-enabled-16x2-lcd-white-on-black-5v/
[17:26] <MuNk> that type of screen is fine for use with the UART on the R-Pi?
[17:26] <WASDx> not sure, people say it should be 3.3V
[17:27] <WASDx> like this http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9052
[17:27] <WASDx> i asked about tha a few days ago and someone guessed it would work
[17:28] <ReggieUK> as long as you use a voltage divider to drop the TX from the serial LCD from 5v to 3.3v it will be fine
[17:30] <MuNk> ok thank for the info :)
[17:31] <ReggieUK> np
[17:47] <WASDx> ReggieUK: do you know about the turbo encabulator?
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[17:48] <WASDx> Is the board really gonna say 2011?
[17:49] <WASDx> i pointed that out in the comments of an article but didnt get a response the last time i checked
[18:01] <friggle> if the design was finalised in 2011, why shouldn't it?
[18:03] <WASDx> I guess in that sense it's correct. But it says (C)2011. I don't know much about copyright but since it will be released in 2012 i assume (C)2012 is more correct
[18:17] <piofcube> You have to be very careful about that. I know in this case we are talking about a month from actual design to release but there's laws which say that you can not make something and then claim that you made it later than you did. Most copyright has a maximum length so by stating the copyright starts from a later date than is actual, it would be bad. However, thanks to Walt Disney, copyright is much more complex than that in some countries
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[19:03] <Thorn_> damn broken forum
[19:04] <merlin1991> the forum relly is broken and silly
[19:04] <merlin1991> even tmo isn't as bad
[19:04] <Thorn_> sure i've seen your name before
[19:04] <Thorn_> did you used to hang around #xreal orso ?
[19:05] <jojo> and really ugly now as well...
[19:05] <Thorn_> yeah it's ugly and broken
[19:05] <Thorn_> it's impossible to find anything with the search function, because all the threads just link to other threads, and the links are broken now
[19:06] <WASDx> i actually had success with the search function
[19:06] <WASDx> but the links are a shame
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[19:08] <ukscone> evening mdavey
[19:08] <Thorn_> mdavey is in a position of authority with the forum
[19:08] <Thorn_> I say we use him as hostage until they get it sorted.
[19:08] <merlin1991> Thorn_: yeah I'm an idler in #xreal
[19:11] <Thorn_> pity about xreal
[19:11] <Thorn_> but now we have tech4
[19:11] <Thorn_> hey, maybe xreal will run on a pi, it was ES wasn't it?
[19:11] * Thorn_ ducks
[19:15] <merlin1991> :D
[19:15] <merlin1991> you should duck well
[19:15] <merlin1991> it's actually <= 3.0
[19:15] * Jarii (~Jarii@host102-135-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:15] <merlin1991> err >=
[19:16] <Thorn_> aw
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[19:32] <mdavey> Thorn_: hah!
[19:33] <mdavey> so there are grumbles about the new forum software, then?
[19:33] <Thorn_> not really a gripe with the software itself
[19:34] <Thorn_> i should stop being lazy and post in the thread
[19:34] <Thorn_> but the theme is horrid - and since all the links don't work anymore, the search function is almost useless (since threads always like to other threads)
[19:35] <mdavey> Thorn_: I agree re the theme - very hard on the eyes
[19:36] <merlin1991> and the wasted width is ridciolus
[19:36] <mdavey> Thorn_: I have hopes for the links. There are round about 2500 threads in mingle IIRC. Should be possible to build a set of Apache rules that redirect from the old url to the new - but will probably be several days before liz can take a look.
[19:36] <mdavey> Re the width, which browser do you use?
[19:36] <Thorn_> also, simple information (such as seeing which threads are the stickies)
[19:36] <Thorn_> oops pressed enter
[19:37] <Thorn_> is no longer possible, since you have to look for that small 16x16 'sticky' icon in the middle of the thread title ;p
[19:37] <Thorn_> er
[19:37] <Thorn_> assuming simple information*
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[19:41] <merlin1991> mdavey: firefox
[19:41] <merlin1991> I can make you a ss it's silly
[19:42] <merlin1991> I have a hugeass monitor and only about 50% of it is the actual forum
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[19:42] <mdavey> merlin1991: I posted a hack somewhere on the forums. Basically, install firebug and then change two of the css rules.
[19:43] <merlin1991> I did that myself, any way to make it persistant though?
[19:43] <Dagger3> I did this in Stylish: https://p.6core.net/p/gs6aoyw9k1qpk96w
[19:45] <mdavey> merlin1991: http://www.cssupdater.com/
[19:45] <Dagger3> there's a class for pinned topics too, so it should be easy to make those different somehow
[19:48] <merlin1991> thanks Dagger3,mdavey
[19:48] <merlin1991> though still silly that the user has to hack to get a proper page displayed
[19:48] <mdavey> I'm sure this is (or will be) on Liz's todo list after the hols, too.
[19:49] * nils_2 (~nils_2@gateway/tor-sasl/nils2/x-72512466) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] <merlin1991> I keep forgetting my forums username :P
[19:49] <Dagger3> http://i39.tinypic.com/fwuce1.jpg better? :P
[19:50] <Dagger3> (damn you tinypic and your silent image resizing)
[19:51] <mdavey> Dagger3: yea, but better still if you can get it to float on the left instead of the right, and keep the text size in the other columns the same
[19:53] <Dagger3> it was partially a joke... but the more normal route of making the topics bold won't work because they're already bold
[19:55] <merlin1991> what I really miss about the page is a consistent style
[19:55] <merlin1991> it looks like it's a few templates thrown together that more or less work
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[19:57] <Dagger3> http://i39.tinypic.com/qxta47.jpg a border?
[19:59] <mdavey> vertical sep / border is also nice
[20:02] <Dagger3> http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/535/generaldiscussionforumr.png
[20:02] <Dagger3> weirdly the font rendering in the screenshots is different to in Firefox itself
[20:04] <Dagger3> here's the last one; should be fairly easy to figure out what to throb if you don't like the size/border/non-bold: https://p.6core.net/p/60r302rgh1urkzq7
[20:20] <acfrazier> yay for delays
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[20:55] <merlin1991> another silly thing on the forums
[20:55] <merlin1991> every single ' is a \' now
[20:56] <merlin1991> sqlescaping gone wild
[21:05] <wwalker> doh
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[21:05] <Dagger3> strangely only on some posts though, I thought?
[21:05] <Dagger3> guess it's fixable with greasemonkey/scriptish...
[21:05] <wwalker> sql escaping is unnecessary in most frameworks. must be something written in php
[21:06] <Dagger3> it's unnecessary in PHP too
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[21:24] <Thorn_> i say we start a betting pool
[21:24] <Thorn_> bets on the auction boards going up next week? 2->8 january
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[21:37] <merlin1991> Dagger3: unnecessary in php depends on the sanenes of your php <> sql bridge code
[21:37] <merlin1991> one can still just issue sql statements with inline parameters :D
[21:38] <Dagger3> not really... if your bridge code doesn't use prepared statements, it's not because PHP doesn't provide them
[21:41] <merlin1991> legacy code?
[21:44] <Dagger3> well... upgrade it
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[22:45] <RITRedbeard> so we're all playing quake II when raspberry pi comes out, right?
[22:46] <Thorn_> 2?
[22:47] <Thorn_> why not good old quakeworld? ;\
[22:47] <WASDx> sounds like a nice release party :D
[22:47] <Thorn_> did you ever play Giex! ?
[22:47] <Thorn_> also great fun
[22:49] <Thorn_> but yeah
[22:49] <Thorn_> i say all participants must take a picture of their setup first
[22:49] <Thorn_> to make sure they're not playing with a desktop :P
[22:49] <WASDx> I will take a picture when i build my case
[22:49] <WASDx> we should have a new topic for case show-offs
[22:49] <RITRedbeard> I'll win.
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[22:50] <Thorn_> at a case show off, or quake 2?
[22:50] <WASDx> mine will simply be a box made out of tree
[22:50] <Thorn_> i'll probably have mine inside my gaming keyboard
[22:51] <RITRedbeard> Both maybe.
[22:51] <Thorn_> lol
[22:51] <Thorn_> sit down sonny, we'll definitely get this sorted when the pi comes out
[22:51] <RITRedbeard> Sorry, putting Raspberry Pi into Thinkpad 240?
[22:51] <RITRedbeard> And getting everything to work?
[22:51] <RITRedbeard> I haven't even picked out the display.
[22:51] <RITRedbeard> Mmmm mmm...
[22:52] <WASDx> my case design, excuse the blender skills http://i.imgur.com/etssC.jpg
[22:52] <Thorn_> dear WASDx, you must acquire the ancient skill of uvwrapping first :(
[22:52] <Thorn_> :D
[22:52] <WASDx> i've messed some with it
[22:53] <WASDx> now i just tried to get some kind of material and found one that was acceptable...
[22:53] <Thorn_> you can cheat
[22:53] <Thorn_> select all your wood surfaces (the entire outside shell should be a seperate object really)
[22:53] <Thorn_> cubic unwrap
[22:53] <Thorn_> then just load up a wood image
[22:53] <Thorn_> and scale until it's not blurry
[22:53] <Thorn_> works fine for that stuff :)
[22:53] <WASDx> I think the case and the RPi are two separate objects
[22:53] <WASDx> you can have the blend file if you really want
[22:54] <ReggieUK> I'm going to use something like this:
[22:54] <ReggieUK> http://lastblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/SparkfunBox.jpg
[22:54] <Thorn_> it's been a long time since i touched blender, i'll download blender and have a go at redoing that
[22:54] <ReggieUK> because it'll be within arms reach when I unpack the pi
[22:54] <Thorn_> wasn't there something about the cardboard packaging the pi comes in being a suitable case?
[22:54] <Thorn_> or was that just talk
[22:54] <ReggieUK> I thought that was just talk
[22:55] <Thorn_> k
[22:55] <ReggieUK> but it would be a neat idea for the pi team to design a box with perforations for a backplate
[22:55] <RITRedbeard> :(
[22:55] <RITRedbeard> modern IPS come in 16:10 now
[22:55] <RITRedbeard> I want 4:3 :(
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> to be fair I plan on using the original display that comes with the thinkpad 240
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> think it uses rgb TTL
[23:02] <RITRedbeard> so basically flatlink/LVDS
[23:27] <Thorn_> WASDx: something like this? (unfinished obviously) http://thoronir.net/RaspberryPi/Pi_Example01_Render01.png
[23:27] <Thorn_> (didn't get to the mitered/slotted side yet)
[23:28] <WASDx> cool
[23:29] <WASDx> my chassi doesnt entierly look like that as you saw
[23:29] <Thorn_> I think rather than case design, I'll spend some time on a usable .blend of the pi
[23:29] * smjms (~janne@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe97fb00-191.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:29] <WASDx> i will be able to slide of a lid at the front and have a glass top
[23:29] * smjms (~janne@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe97fb00-191.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:29] <WASDx> Oh that would be nice, for others to import
[23:43] <Thorn_> Does anyone know the depth of the PCB?
[23:43] <Thorn_> apparently a 6-layer PCB is 1.6mm
[23:43] <Thorn_> Is the pi 4 or 5 layers?
[23:44] <merlin1991> 5 layer
[23:44] <merlin1991> (from what I've read)
[23:45] <Thorn_> to hmm
[23:45] <Thorn_> 1.4 or 1.5mm ?
[23:45] <Thorn_> made it 1.4mm for now, unless someone finds out the exact depth of a 5 layer board
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[23:50] <RITRedbeard> just curious, anyone know the clock details for signal from raspberry pi?
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