#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-01-16

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:02] <IT_Sean> Right. Why does my keyboard backlighting keep switching on?
[0:02] <victhor> because it's dark? :P
[0:03] <ReggieUK> it's them
[0:03] <ReggieUK> trying to communicate with you
[0:04] <IT_Sean> victhor. It has no way to know it is dark
[0:04] <victhor> that's what they want you to think
[0:04] <victhor> :P
[0:07] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc1-belf7-0-0-cust981.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: phood)
[0:17] * _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:23] * tuckerkevin (~tuckerkev@50.55.192.136) has left #raspberrypi
[0:25] * WASDx (~AINOR@81-229-79-162-no64.business.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:25] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc1-belf7-0-0-cust981.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:29] * Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-178-5-168.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:30] * LiENUS (~whodat@99-188-184-130.lightspeed.btrgla.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:50] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:50] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Well hello Sean. How are you today?
[0:52] <victhor> !help
[0:53] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:53] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:54] <_inc> help?
[0:54] <IT_Sean> help! (i need somebody)
[0:55] <IT_Sean> help! (not just anybody)
[0:55] <IT_Sean> ... no Beatles fans on, apparently.
[0:56] <hamitron> effort ;)
[1:16] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:17] * LiENUS (~whodat@99-188-184-130.lightspeed.btrgla.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:24] <_inc> whats all the must have goodies that all the cool kids use on their fresh linux install?
[1:25] <tntexplosivesltd> cmus, dwm, irssi,
[1:25] <tntexplosivesltd> all the good poeces of software that won't clog up your new system
[1:25] <tntexplosivesltd> * pieces
[1:26] <_inc> wow
[1:27] <_inc> they are all ncurses programs right?
[1:28] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:28] <_inc> irssi and a standard bash shell is about as barebones as i can handle
[1:29] <_inc> zsh scares me :P
[1:29] <tntexplosivesltd> dwm isn't, it's a window manager
[1:29] <tntexplosivesltd> zsh is really terrible
[1:29] <tntexplosivesltd> like, insanely
[1:29] <tntexplosivesltd> just wow
[1:32] <_inc> glad im not alone with that opinion
[1:35] <_inc> whats the consesus on awesome window manager?
[1:36] <dmsuse> whats the point in a window manager?
[1:36] <_inc> deep
[1:36] <tntexplosivesltd> dmsuse: used for developing games =/
[1:37] <dmsuse> what games?
[1:37] <_inc> dmsuse: so yea, you browse the web with lynx right?
[1:37] <dmsuse> _inc: well from what i hear, its too slow to browse the web with
[1:37] <dmsuse> and yes sometimes i do
[1:37] <tntexplosivesltd> _inc: are you after a window manager or a desktop environment?
[1:38] <_inc> tntexplosivesltd: this is where i google the difference
[1:38] * Shy is now known as Shy_
[1:38] * Shy_ is now known as Shy
[1:39] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[1:39] <_inc> righttttttt
[1:40] <_inc> ok so X is a wm
[1:40] <tntexplosivesltd> well no
[1:41] <tntexplosivesltd> X comes with one, but it's shit
[1:41] <tntexplosivesltd> X is a lot more than that man
[1:42] <cornet> zsh++
[1:42] <tntexplosivesltd> cornet: nope.no
[1:43] <cornet> completion is better than bash, removes some redundant sytax from bash
[1:43] <_inc> tntexplosivesltd: ok, just read the difference. thanks for helping me fill a gap in my knowledge :P
[1:43] <cornet> whats not to like
[1:44] * cornet still uses bash for scripts
[1:44] <_inc> so it goes window system > window manager > desktop environment
[1:44] <cornet> yup
[1:44] <cornet> most people want desktop environments
[1:45] <cornet> with all the bells and whistles
[1:45] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:45] <dmsuse> is it true the ram is shared with the gpu?
[1:45] <cornet> a desktop environment, like gnome, will include a window manager
[1:46] <cornet> but said window manager can often be replaced
[1:46] <_inc> ok, well im getting back into linux via a VM. I've got barebones debian with xfce4. are there any other lightweight environments i can try?
[1:46] <cornet> lxde
[1:47] <cornet> rox - if it's still going
[1:47] <victhor> dmsuse, yes
[1:47] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:48] <tntexplosivesltd> cornet: everything, the stupid way it breaks all the standards (it has its own PS1 >.<)
[1:50] <_inc> im trying out fluxbox
[1:54] <cornet> tntexplosivesltd: what "standards" are you referring to ?
[1:56] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) Quit ()
[1:58] <tntexplosivesltd> _inc: good
[1:58] <_inc> whats the keystroke to switch to the bash command (not rendered by the desktop)
[1:59] <_inc> cant remember what its called :P
[1:59] <tntexplosivesltd> ctrl+alt+f1-6
[2:04] * zwrench (ae1930c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.25.48.197) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:06] <- *zwrench* Hi
[2:08] * xe4l (~xe4l@gateway/tor-sasl/xe4l) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:11] * zwrench (ae1930c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.25.48.197) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[2:12] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:20] <_inc> think ill settle for lxde for now
[2:26] <Hideki> anyone know when I'll be able to buy a pi??
[2:26] <Hideki> also, any old beeb users in here?
[2:26] <mrdragons> Never, they're vaporware
[2:26] <Hideki> beta boards are out
[2:26] <Hideki> one sold on ebay for 3500
[2:27] <mrdragons> NEVAR
[2:27] <Hideki> vapourware they are not
[2:27] <mrdragons> (But probably around the end of the month)
[2:27] <Hideki> I'm wondering if it might be possible to design a tube interface for one
[2:27] <Hideki> it'd be kinda cool to have a model b running on my model b as a second processor ;p
[2:27] <mrdragons> They've already started production, so it should be very short time
[2:27] <mrdragons> *a very short time
[2:28] <Hideki> ah, excellent, I have many things in mind although I expect they'll limit the number per person to start with
[2:28] <mrdragons> I haven't seen a straightforward answer to that; they seem to jump around between 1pp and a free-for-all
[2:30] <mrdragons> A tube interface?
[2:31] <_inc> i hope the vapourware comment was a joke?
[2:31] <mrdragons> Of course
[2:31] <Hideki> yeah, the tube was the interface which allowed the connection of other processors to the BBC Micro
[2:32] <Hideki> there were a few released, a 6502, couple of Z80s, an ARM (which was used for development during the design of the Archimedes machines) and a 32016
[2:33] <Hideki> so you could use the main machine for IO and hand off the hard work to the second processor
[2:33] <Hideki> or run CP/M apps
[2:34] <Hideki> there was an 80186 that allowed DOS apps to be run as well, although I've only ever seen that on the BBC Master 512
[2:34] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[2:34] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:35] <Hideki> http://www.apdl.co.uk/riscworld/volume9/issue5/2ndproc/images/fig1.jpg
[2:35] <Hideki> that's a picture of one runnign GEM by the looks of it
[2:36] <mrdragons> That sounds cool, I don't know how you would accomplish that with a raspi though
[2:36] <mrdragons> Being PoP and all
[2:36] <mrdragons> Unless I'm getting this wrong
[2:37] <Hideki> well, it has some spare I/O, it /might/ be doable
[2:37] <Hideki> I won't really know until I get one in my hand and can play, lol
[2:37] <mrdragons> True
[2:38] * Rob__ (~Rob@97-81-71-34.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:38] <Hideki> might give me a use for my teletext cheese wedge as the analogue signal has been turned off -.-
[2:39] <mrdragons> I'm too young to relate to any of this. :P
[2:40] <Hideki> ahh, I collect the old machines (I grew up with them, started with a Sinclair ZX81)
[2:41] <Hideki> http://www.pokenet.co.uk/misc/images.hardware.old/oldsystems-p.jpg
[2:41] <Hideki> the ones setup atm, BBC B is the one on the far right
[2:41] <mrdragons> Those look pretty cool actually
[2:41] * Rob_ (~Rob@li299-28.members.linode.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:43] * zabomber (~zabomber@203-219-247-88.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:44] <Hideki> the BBC was a very good machine for its time, had an excellent basic and multipass assembler built into the ROM, which for a machine released in 1981 wasn't bad, heh, and more expansion options than anything else at the time
[2:44] <Hideki> came with 32K but I upgraded that one to 176K
[2:45] <Hideki> probably have a picture somewhere actually
[2:45] <Hideki> ah yes: http://www.pokenet.co.uk/misc/images.hardware.old/freebeebupgraded176k-2.jpg
[2:45] <Hideki> the board with the green chip sockets has been added, has 128K of extra ram and 16K of battery backed ram
[2:46] <Hideki> there's also the vine systems replay board which allowed the snapshotting of the machine state to disk which datel shamelessly ripped off as the action replay later on, lol
[2:53] * Construct (~Construct@c-67-172-234-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[2:56] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit ()
[2:56] <mrdragons> But really, those old computers are really cool. They're so simple, there's little abstraction between you and the machine
[2:57] <tntexplosivesltd> but these days, everyone would be afraid of one
[2:58] <mrdragons> I'd like to try one out
[2:58] <mrdragons> I bet I could build one, or something simpler
[2:59] <mrdragons> Like the fignition(?) or something
[2:59] <tntexplosivesltd> oh yeah I se
[3:01] <piofcube> FIGnition now support 160x160 Hi Resolution Graphics LOL
[3:01] <piofcube> Looks fun though
[3:02] <tntexplosivesltd> that is so annoying
[3:02] <tntexplosivesltd> no schematic
[3:03] <tntexplosivesltd> and he uses Kb instead of kB
[3:03] <mrdragons> No schematic? That's weird
[3:04] <tntexplosivesltd> it just uses an ATMega168
[3:05] <tntexplosivesltd> OH wait
[3:05] <tntexplosivesltd> it's all on github
[3:10] * Construct (~Construct@c-67-172-234-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:11] <mrdragons> So can I play crysis on it?
[3:11] * Rob_ (~Rob@li299-28.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:11] <piofcube> only on medium settings
[3:12] <mrdragons> Aw
[3:12] <mrdragons> What a ripoff
[3:14] * Rob__ (~Rob@97-81-71-34.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:15] * r4pha (~rapha@unaffiliated/r4pha) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[3:28] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has left #raspberrypi
[3:39] * smjms (~janne@dyn2-212-50-133-158.psoas.suomi.net) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[3:45] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:01] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-48-178.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:02] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-48-178.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[4:13] * sightlight (b807373f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.7.55.63) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:13] <sightlight> hi
[4:14] <wwalker> hi
[4:14] <tntexplosivesltd> ho
[4:14] <sightlight> hello
[4:14] <tntexplosivesltd> how's the wine going?
[4:14] <sightlight> still no pi..
[4:14] <sightlight> oh oh
[4:14] <sightlight> i tried to install wine from source but cant, and i am in my good PC
[4:15] <sightlight> 64 but ubuntu nvidia
[4:15] <MystX> lol..
[4:15] <tntexplosivesltd> okay
[4:15] <victhor> don't tell me you intend on using wine on the pi.
[4:15] <tntexplosivesltd> that sucks =( go ask in the #ubuntu forum
[4:15] <sightlight> compile wine from source 1.3.37. but cant install it **no i dont plan on using wine whatsoever on pi))
[4:16] <sightlight> anyway
[4:16] <sightlight> he team will sell case for the PI
[4:16] <sightlight> later in the year
[4:19] <sightlight> nobody want to talk?
[4:19] <tntexplosivesltd> nope
[4:19] * djerome (~djerome@ip68-2-20-108.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:19] <tntexplosivesltd> <- working
[4:19] <sightlight> why not?
[4:20] <sightlight> oh
[4:20] <sightlight> ok
[4:20] * LiENUS (~whodat@2001:470:bbb3:12:247e:9a1b:5089:9af5) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:20] <sightlight> this kernel is coming with all video codec ready to play?
[4:21] <sightlight> HDMI has sound?
[4:21] <MystX> English isn't your first language, is it?
[4:21] <mrdragons> Both yes
[4:21] <MystX> Also lol I'm MEANT to be working >_>
[4:22] <sightlight> nope, english is not my first language, but it doesnt really matter
[4:22] <sightlight> I have been in the states since 2007
[4:22] <tntexplosivesltd> it does, you're a bit hard to understand
[4:23] <tntexplosivesltd> unless you're trying to be "cute"
[4:23] <tntexplosivesltd> in which case stop it
[4:23] <sightlight> nono, i dont mean anythinofensive
[4:23] <tntexplosivesltd> neither
[4:23] <sightlight> im doing the best I an
[4:23] <sightlight> can*
[4:23] <tntexplosivesltd> also yes, the HDMI carries sound
[4:24] <tntexplosivesltd> was a vid posted a while back
[4:24] <MystX> Whoop whoop
[4:24] <MystX> sightlight: You have some media-center-y plans in mind?
[4:24] <sightlight> with a case that I can hook up some rechargable batteries, I could just bring it to my living room 1440p tv and watch movies
[4:25] <tntexplosivesltd> it's 1080p HDMI out
[4:25] <sightlight> yes. up to y1080, not 1200y right?
[4:25] <sightlight> and I dont have any media center in mind
[4:26] <tntexplosivesltd> yea
[4:26] <sightlight> aalthough that would be nice
[4:26] <tntexplosivesltd> not sure how that would look on 1440p
[4:26] <sightlight> just saying. Its a very big screen
[4:26] <tntexplosivesltd> big != high definition
[4:27] <MystX> It'd look like 1080p on any normal big TV =P
[4:27] <sightlight> fast and removable cases!!!
[4:27] <MystX> tntexplosivesltd: we should go soon
[4:27] <tntexplosivesltd> ya
[4:27] <sightlight> what happened you guys?
[4:27] <tntexplosivesltd> nothing...
[4:28] <sightlight> uh,
[4:28] <mrdragons> It is time... It has begun...
[4:28] <sightlight> uhm
[4:28] <tntexplosivesltd> we need to go home
[4:28] <sightlight> I wanna see video with HDMI sound
[4:28] <sightlight> LRIGHT
[4:28] <sightlight> alright*
[4:28] <sightlight> caps off :)
[4:29] <tntexplosivesltd> look: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/431
[4:29] * WASDx (~AINOR@81-229-79-162-no64.business.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:29] <MystX> tntexplosivesltd: lets go yo
[4:29] <tntexplosivesltd> committing my stuff
[4:30] <tntexplosivesltd> fuck it
[4:30] <sightlight> watching the video hdmi
[4:30] <tntexplosivesltd> merge conflicts
[4:30] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56ab.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[4:30] <MystX> lol
[4:30] * MystX (~MystX@ec2-107-21-100-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[4:32] <sightlight> how many channels is the hdmi?
[4:34] * victhor (~victhor@177.17.5.201) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:36] * Construct (~Construct@c-67-172-234-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:43] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:47] <tntexplosivesltd> not sure, check the wiki
[4:53] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:55] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:06] * UnaClocker (~unaclocke@24-113-85-150.wavecable.com) Quit (Quit: bedtime)
[5:23] * Tobias| (~Tobias@unaffiliated/tobias/x-2050245) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:23] * Tobias| (~Tobias@unaffiliated/tobias/x-2050245) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:26] <sightlight> hi
[5:28] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[5:29] <sightlight> hello
[5:29] <sightlight> no body talks
[5:29] <sightlight> me talk Pi
[5:29] <sightlight> the raspberrypi running game maker with a touch screen
[5:30] <sightlight> infact I could try that
[5:30] <sightlight> just need a 25.5 inch touch panel
[5:32] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[5:32] <tntexplosivesltd> why game maker?
[5:32] <tntexplosivesltd> why not make a game in pygame or C/C++
[5:32] <tntexplosivesltd> game maker sucks
[5:32] <mrdragons> ^^
[5:33] <tntexplosivesltd> and game maker would need porting, or use wine
[5:33] <tntexplosivesltd> but don't
[5:33] <tntexplosivesltd> because ^^^
[5:33] <sightlight> pygame has a GUI?
[5:33] <sightlight> like gamemaker?
[5:34] <tntexplosivesltd> err... no
[5:34] <tntexplosivesltd> GUIs for making games is for children
[5:34] <tntexplosivesltd> and very very limiting
[5:34] <sightlight> I like GUI
[5:35] <tntexplosivesltd> but they limit you soooooo much
[5:35] * the20yrlaptop (~Brandon@cpe-65-185-57-243.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:35] <tntexplosivesltd> and programming is easy
[5:35] <sightlight> with all honesty
[5:35] <the20yrlaptop> What will the approx USD cost be for a unit (or 5) be to the US?
[5:35] <sightlight> programing is more dificult for me with no gui
[5:35] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[5:36] <sightlight> I like GUI
[5:36] <sightlight> I like see very very much
[5:36] <mrdragons> But you can do anything if you actually code
[5:36] <sightlight> started learning at 16
[5:36] <sightlight> and stil dont knoe the basicslol
[5:36] <mrdragons> With gamemaker you're limited to what they say you can do
[5:36] <sightlight> but im very familiar with see
[5:36] <tntexplosivesltd> and it's not on linux
[5:36] <mrdragons> I'm only 16 and I've made my own couple of small games
[5:37] <tntexplosivesltd> I started programming ages ago
[5:37] <sightlight> im 19
[5:37] <tntexplosivesltd> same
[5:37] <tntexplosivesltd> and I do software development for Aviat Networks
[5:37] <tntexplosivesltd> programming is very easy
[5:38] <tntexplosivesltd> and it's easy to learn
[5:38] <sightlight> is boring to learn
[5:38] <sightlight> you dont have anything to practice
[5:38] <tntexplosivesltd> ...
[5:38] <sightlight> you forget it quik
[5:38] <tntexplosivesltd> make a game
[5:38] <tntexplosivesltd> you never forget
[5:38] <mrdragons> You'll never get anywhere worthwhile with a gui
[5:39] <mrdragons> *just a gui
[5:39] <sightlight> you can code normal in DS gamemaker
[5:39] <sightlight> i mean, gamemaker
[5:39] <sightlight> I used to use ds gamemaker for my NINtendo DS
[5:39] <sightlight> sorry
[5:39] <sightlight> but
[5:40] <sightlight> C for mrdragons THE RASPBERRY Pi would be nace
[5:40] <sightlight> and caps off
[5:40] <sightlight> sorry
[5:40] <mrdragons> Nace?
[5:41] <sightlight> nvm
[5:41] <sightlight> Just trying to type fast
[5:42] * _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:43] <sightlight> pygame..
[5:43] <sightlight> im going to search of that
[5:44] <mrdragons> Pygame is a really nice library, do recommend
[5:44] * tradiuz (~boredbard@cpe-72-177-192-128.satx.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:45] <tntexplosivesltd> and since it's a computer designed for teaching programming
[5:45] <tntexplosivesltd> game maker doesn't really teach programming that much
[5:46] * _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:51] <sightlight> does pygame have a GUI like gamemaker?,,, I read here are some GUI but they are not dont well i think
[5:52] <mrdragons> Nope, it's all typing
[5:52] <mrdragons> Classic python
[5:53] <sightlight> I would like tipy if I could see my progres in a window
[5:54] <sightlight> like:
[5:54] <sightlight> I write addsprite(); and it shows on the screen
[5:54] <sightlight> something productive
[5:54] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[5:58] <sightlight> Python and Qt4 Designer
[5:59] <tntexplosivesltd> how is writing in python not productive?
[5:59] <tntexplosivesltd> it does the work for you
[6:00] <sightlight> its boring some how
[6:00] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't even.... what...
[6:01] <mrdragons> Gamemaker is boring...
[6:01] <tntexplosivesltd> *SIGH*
[6:01] <tntexplosivesltd> yes, it really is
[6:01] <sightlight> anyway
[6:02] <mrdragons> What if you want to make your game networked between players using a custom server set up? Can game maker handle networking protocols?
[6:02] <tntexplosivesltd> or if you want to make a game that has source code
[6:02] <tntexplosivesltd> that can be ported to other platforms
[6:05] <sightlight> everytime I try to learn a programing language I end up with no insterest whatsoever because I dont have any content to practice with
[6:05] <sightlight> I get dead bored.
[6:05] <sightlight> and the source some people give me I dont even Understand it
[6:05] <tntexplosivesltd> well there's only one way to get better
[6:05] <sightlight> making a game from deep my brain seems wierd from 2 days of learning
[6:06] <sightlight> iI like something visually
[6:06] <tntexplosivesltd> then make a clone
[6:06] <sightlight> clone?
[6:06] <tntexplosivesltd> of an existing ame
[6:06] <tntexplosivesltd> * game
[6:06] <mrdragons> Which reminds me, I want to get started on making yet another 2d sidescroller clone
[6:07] <mrdragons> Or maybe just remake pokemon
[6:08] <rm> http://bifferos.co.uk/ hey look <s>Raspberry Pi</s> is on sale!
[6:08] <mrdragons> lol
[6:09] * zabomber (~zabomber@203-219-247-88.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:09] <tntexplosivesltd> =( 35 pounds
[6:09] <tntexplosivesltd> and it's crap
[6:10] <mrdragons> It could run DOS! :P
[6:11] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[6:11] <tntexplosivesltd> that's bad
[6:11] <mrdragons> So?
[6:11] <sightlight> you guys wanna see something cool?
[6:12] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: will we think it's cool?
[6:12] <tntexplosivesltd> think about it
[6:12] <sightlight> rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/
[6:12] <sightlight> :)
[6:12] <sightlight> 35 punds. :))))
[6:13] <mrdragons> Sounds like vaporware to me
[6:14] <tntexplosivesltd> 35 pounds is more than the R-Pi
[6:14] <tntexplosivesltd> and yes, I want to see videos of it booting first
[6:14] <Hideki> while not a pi, it's still an interesting board
[6:14] <Hideki> what the
[6:14] <Hideki> do you think everything is vapourware, lol
[6:15] <sightlight> ill stick with the Pi
[6:15] <sightlight> more eficient.
[6:15] <mrdragons> It actually sounds like vaporware
[6:15] <sightlight> WAY..
[6:15] <mrdragons> I was joking about the pi
[6:15] <sightlight> jum jum
[6:15] <Hideki> 1W
[6:16] <Hideki> the Pi is going to be helpful for wearable computing though
[6:16] <Hideki> I was going to use my Pandora for that
[6:16] <Hideki> but I'd rather use something about similar spec that didn't cost me nearly 400 quid, haha
[6:16] * nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:17] <mrdragons> I'm hoping it's not vaporware though, it'd be cool to see a ton of small, relatively powerful, inexpensive computers pop up
[6:17] <sightlight> I wanna see native games for the Pi and comercial.
[6:17] <mrdragons> Anything that can run on linux...
[6:17] <mrdragons> Minux java
[6:17] <mrdragons> minus*
[6:17] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[6:17] <tntexplosivesltd> java is the worst
[6:18] <mrdragons> I never showed any support for it.
[6:18] <mrdragons> I don't hate it either though.
[6:18] <azalyn> what's odd is that according to the debian shootout benchmarks, java is supposedly fast.
[6:18] <azalyn> at least at execution.
[6:18] <tntexplosivesltd> but startup?
[6:18] <tntexplosivesltd> and memory usage?
[6:18] <azalyn> it is a complete and utter pig at memory though.
[6:19] <mrdragons> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ
[6:19] <Hideki> the pi has 256MiB RAM aye?
[6:19] <azalyn> mono uses less memory, but is slower at execution. java is the reverse
[6:19] * Hideki mutters evil things about mono under his breath
[6:19] <azalyn> chances are mono is just lacking some of java vm's optimizations though.
[6:20] <azalyn> and perhaps java vm is lacking some of the memory usage optimizations in mono.
[6:20] <tntexplosivesltd> Hideki: Model B has 256MB
[6:20] <tntexplosivesltd> Hideki: Model A has 128MB
[6:20] <Hideki> ahh
[6:20] <azalyn> honestly, why don't any of these high level languages at least give you the *option* of manual memory management?
[6:20] <sightlight> hey guys
[6:20] <Hideki> to think when I had my ZX81 the 16K rampack cost significantly more than the model b, lol
[6:21] <azalyn> garbage collection is always going to use way more memory.
[6:21] <tntexplosivesltd> well, it keeps it around yeah
[6:21] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: what is it?
[6:21] <azalyn> some guy did some tests a long time ago and concluded that *best* case scenario, garbage collectors will always use like twice the memory.
[6:22] <Hideki> but 256MiB is more than enough really, that's what the pandora has and it manages to run X and Chromium and so on
[6:22] <sightlight> do you guys this that a nice first person shotting games can be ported to the pi? like xonootic9opensource),,,ETXreal(opensource)
[6:22] <sightlight> dont hate me
[6:22] <azalyn> X will not be an issue for much longer.
[6:22] <azalyn> with wayland on the way.
[6:22] <Hideki> I've not heard of that
[6:22] <azalyn> although X will still be needed for backwards-compat.
[6:22] <sightlight> huh?
[6:23] <tntexplosivesltd> that was being talked about on the weekend
[6:23] <azalyn> Hideki: it's the X replacement in development. ubuntu has already said they're gonna use it when it's ready for sure.
[6:23] <azalyn> fedora too i believe.
[6:23] <Hideki> given the horror that is unity that doesn't fill me with confidence
[6:23] <sightlight> what X?
[6:23] <sightlight> directX???????????????
[6:23] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: I'm pretty sure you were here
[6:23] <Hideki> X-Windows
[6:23] <mrdragons> lol
[6:23] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: google X
[6:23] <azalyn> and Hideki well, the difference is, it's not being developed by ubuntu/canonical.
[6:23] <Hideki> or rather Xfree86
[6:23] <azalyn> so you can relax.
[6:23] <Hideki> oh okay
[6:24] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight doesn't know what X it
[6:24] <azalyn> wayland is actually developed by some really smart folks.
[6:24] <sightlight> can explain pleasE??
[6:24] <tntexplosivesltd> google it
[6:24] <Hideki> it's a windowing system for unixlike operating systems
[6:24] <sightlight> the letter X?..
[6:24] <azalyn> Hideki: http://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html
[6:24] <Hideki> like windows except open source and not crap
[6:24] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: https://encrypted.google.com/
[6:24] <azalyn> sightlight: i thought you were trolling...
[6:24] <tntexplosivesltd> ikr
[6:25] <sightlight> noo
[6:25] <azalyn> sightlight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System
[6:25] <mrdragons> Just for the record, we don't hate you, you're just a bit uninformed. :P
[6:25] <azalyn> X is what allows linux to have a desktop with windows and so on.
[6:26] <azalyn> it's an 'engine' onto which you can build desktop environments.
[6:26] <azalyn> the most important component being a window manager.
[6:26] <azalyn> sightlight: without X, linux basically is just command line. like DOS
[6:27] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: do you use linux?
[6:27] <Hideki> ooh, GLES2
[6:27] <azalyn> although even in command line mode, it's like a million times more powerful than DOS... hehe
[6:27] <sightlight> yea
[6:27] <sightlight> Ubuntu
[6:27] <tntexplosivesltd> sigh
[6:27] <Hideki> the pandora has that, I think the pi does too, interesting, I might have to have a play
[6:27] <sightlight> whats the need of Using X if linux already has a GUI?
[6:27] <tntexplosivesltd> ...
[6:27] <Hideki> X is the linux GUI atm
[6:27] <tntexplosivesltd> it already has it
[6:27] <azalyn> Hideki: another interesting design is that wayland is just a core library. the window manager essentially becomes the display server and the compositor.
[6:28] <sightlight> not to be sarcastic but why are we talking about X?
[6:28] <azalyn> sightlight: X is what you are using.
[6:28] <tntexplosivesltd> because you have no idea about it
[6:28] <azalyn> it *is* the gui that linux "has at the moment"
[6:29] <tntexplosivesltd> another opportunity to learn
[6:29] <Hideki> it's 5:30am and freezing, what am I doing here -.-
[6:29] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:29] <sightlight> I was thinking that linux team was going to port Direct X to linux
[6:29] <sightlight> or something
[6:29] <sightlight> i dibt know
[6:29] <tntexplosivesltd> no, it's closed source
[6:29] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:29] <Hideki> given we already have opengl
[6:29] <tntexplosivesltd> and proprietary
[6:29] <Hideki> which as the name suggests
[6:29] <Hideki> is open
[6:29] <Hideki> ..
[6:30] <mrdragons> DirectX is proprietary
[6:30] <azalyn> sightlight: given that you don't seem like a VT user, you probably have never not-used X while using linux.
[6:30] <tntexplosivesltd> and it's really really terrible
[6:30] <mrdragons> And owned by microsoft
[6:30] * DoctorD (~DoctorD@79.119.252.185) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:30] <sightlight> I like linux
[6:30] <sightlight> just dont know much about linux
[6:30] <tntexplosivesltd> but you know nothing about it
[6:30] <sightlight> been using it for months now
[6:30] <tntexplosivesltd> so what do you like about it?
[6:31] <sightlight> I like linux, permanently.
[6:31] <Hideki> months, lol
[6:31] <tntexplosivesltd> for what reason?
[6:31] <sightlight> IM not going back to windows
[6:31] <tntexplosivesltd> Hideki: hehe
[6:31] <sightlight> money
[6:31] <sightlight> I dont have money to buy windows
[6:31] <sightlight> Ill go green.
[6:31] <mrdragons> Hideki: Hey, I've only been using linux for 10 months and I know a decent bit about it
[6:31] <tntexplosivesltd> but you strive to make your computer as similar to windows as possible
[6:31] <azalyn> someone actually did write a Direct3D state tracker for gallium3d. hehe
[6:31] <azalyn> although i'm not sure where that work is heading these days.
[6:31] <Hideki> ahh, I stared playing with it in about 1995 and switched to debian (which I still use) in 1999
[6:32] * emusan (~tom@149.119.251.114) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:32] <tntexplosivesltd> hahahaha
[6:32] <Hideki> this machine is windows though, as the games I like don't run in linux (no, not even with wine etc.)
[6:32] <tntexplosivesltd> started on arch 1 and a half years ago
[6:32] <tntexplosivesltd> so I know a bit about it
[6:32] <mrdragons> ^*five*
[6:32] <Hideki> but there's a linux server doing triple duty as fileserver, firewall and router, all without a head ;p
[6:32] <sightlight> how come the wine team port directx to wine when its closed?
[6:32] <azalyn> i've been using linux since 2000.
[6:33] <tntexplosivesltd> looks like ubuntu really helps people learn about it, eh?
[6:33] <Hideki> they don't port it, it just runs it
[6:33] <tntexplosivesltd> wine is a windows environment
[6:33] <sightlight> uhm
[6:33] <tntexplosivesltd> ish
[6:33] <mrdragons> I didn't learn a lot about linux while using ubuntu, that's why I switched to arch
[6:33] <azalyn> sightlight: they rewrote it from scratch.
[6:33] <tntexplosivesltd> mrdragons: ya, ubuntu is frustrating
[6:33] <azalyn> which took them years.
[6:33] <Hideki> did they? it's a while since I've used wine
[6:33] <Hideki> that's quite impressive
[6:33] <azalyn> they wrote their implementation on top of opengl
[6:34] <Hideki> ahhh
[6:34] <azalyn> Hideki: do you know what wine is?
[6:34] <emusan> I'm using Arch too
[6:34] <tntexplosivesltd> I sense trolling
[6:34] <Hideki> of course I do
[6:34] <azalyn> wine itself is far more impressive than their d3d implementation.
[6:34] <tntexplosivesltd> that is true
[6:34] <azalyn> Hideki: i mean do you know how it works?
[6:34] <azalyn> maybe you think it just translates windows stuff to linux equivalents?
[6:34] <azalyn> or something
[6:35] <azalyn> because that is not what it is at all.
[6:35] <azalyn> wine is basically a windows rewrite. on top of linux.
[6:35] <Hideki> I haven't studied it at a low level, I built it and it did what I required of it, that was enough, lol
[6:35] <tntexplosivesltd> haven't looked at wine, it's stupid imo
[6:35] <azalyn> they have literally rewritten every dll from scratch.
[6:35] <Hideki> if it is now it wasn't when I last used it
[6:35] <sightlight> of they wrote direct ontop of opengl then open og is prob he same thing but with a diferent core
[6:35] <Hideki> I had to have a windows install along side it
[6:35] <azalyn> to the point that with some tweaking, you could probably replace the windows dll's with theirs
[6:35] <sightlight> gl*
[6:36] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: that makes no sense
[6:36] <sightlight> ok
[6:36] <Hideki> having said that I probably last used it pre 2000, lol
[6:36] <azalyn> sightlight: they're different APIs they have similar features and funtionality.
[6:36] <azalyn> as a result you can translate one to the other with some work.
[6:36] <Hideki> but it definitely had to see a real windows install to work at the time
[6:37] <azalyn> Hideki: jesus, that was so long ago... so much crap has happened since then
[6:37] <azalyn> for one thing they switched licenses.. they used to be x11/mit, they switched to lgpl.
[6:37] <azalyn> there's directx support now
[6:37] <azalyn> and they can run many games
[6:37] <Hideki> world of warcraft? star trek online?
[6:37] <azalyn> http://appdb.winehq.org/
[6:38] <sightlight> crysis 2 need a lilte bit more X..
[6:38] <azalyn> yes on WoW
[6:38] <azalyn> not sure about ST.
[6:38] <sightlight> wine team need more people.
[6:38] <Hideki> oh wow, that's definitely improved some, haha, I'd take a look but neither the linux box here nor the dedi have X installed
[6:38] <Hideki> or monitors attached
[6:39] <azalyn> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=19203
[6:39] <azalyn> apparently it's 'gold'
[6:39] * _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[6:39] <Hideki> hrm
[6:39] <azalyn> sometimes you might have to do extra steps. like apparently you have to install IE in wine to get star trek to work
[6:40] <azalyn> which you can use 'winetricks' to do.
[6:40] <Hideki> I think I'm going to have to reinstall linux on here (initially as dual boot), might be able to get rid of windows finally
[6:40] <azalyn> if you scroll down, they tell you how to do it
[6:40] <Hideki> it's only the MMOs I play keeping windows on here at all
[6:40] <azalyn> i used to play team fortress 2 and guild wars.
[6:41] <sightlight> I have used windows a long time
[6:41] <azalyn> please note, like i said you might have to jump through a *few* hoops. like the installing IE thing.
[6:41] <azalyn> but they tell you how to do all that.
[6:41] <sightlight> good thing that I switch last year
[6:41] <azalyn> it's pretty straightforward.
[6:41] <sightlight> UBuntu 64-bit
[6:41] <Hideki> I'm a coder/sysadmin, I just don't know about things I've not touched in years, I can follow instructions ;p
[6:41] <emusan> azalyn: what wm do you use?
[6:42] <sightlight> will ubuntu be availible for the raspberrypi?
[6:42] <Hideki> it probably already is
[6:42] <Hideki> it certainly /can/ run on it
[6:42] <azalyn> emusan: that's an out of the blue question.. but i use xfwm. which is part of xfce (which i also use)
[6:42] <Hideki> whether anyone has conveniently packaged it I@m not sure
[6:42] <mrdragons> They don't plan on supporting it for ARM11 iirc though
[6:42] <mrdragons> Anymore
[6:42] <Hideki> oh well, there's always debian
[6:42] <sightlight> what?
[6:43] * the20yrlaptop (~Brandon@cpe-65-185-57-243.columbus.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[6:43] <sightlight> will ubuntu get updates for rapberrypi
[6:43] <mrdragons> Debian is basically ubuntu anyways
[6:43] <Hideki> ?
[6:43] <Hideki> I think you mean ubuntu is basically debian
[6:43] <mrdragons> Well, the other way around
[6:43] <Hideki> debian was here first
[6:43] <Hideki> lol
[6:43] <mrdragons> Yeah
[6:43] <sightlight> I would like ubuntu in all my systems
[6:44] <Hideki> ubuntu is good for people who have never touched linux though
[6:44] <Hideki> generally supports all hardware out of the box
[6:44] <mrdragons> Agreed, I would have never gotten into linux or much programming without it
[6:44] <azalyn> sightlight: if you want to learn linux, you should try some other stuff.. honestly, the raspberry-pi is about learning. and you won't learn that much on ubuntu..
[6:44] <emusan> not to mention the amount of unnecessary stuff that ubuntu comes with these days...
[6:45] <sightlight> ok
[6:45] <sightlight> and ubuntu wont be updated for the pi?
[6:45] <emusan> not officially
[6:45] <mrdragons> Not after 11.10 I believe
[6:45] <azalyn> debian, which is what the pi will ship with i think, is a good fit for you since debian is what ubuntu is based on.
[6:46] <sightlight> I see
[6:46] <azalyn> so what you learn on debian can be applied to ubuntu.
[6:46] <Hideki> I wasn't sure it shipped with anything, doesn't come with an SD card afaik
[6:46] <mrdragons> I heard fedora/redhat actually
[6:46] <Hideki> oh god, not deadrat -.-
[6:46] <azalyn> hm..
[6:47] <azalyn> sightlight: by the way, linux isn't just about free as in cost..
[6:47] <azalyn> you should read more about it.
[6:47] <azalyn> to understand how the community started
[6:47] <azalyn> and what not
[6:47] <sightlight> no piracy in linux thats what i most understand
[6:48] <emusan> look up the linux reality podcast
[6:48] <sightlight> you dont have to buy linux
[6:48] <Hideki> well, I think paid apps do exist
[6:48] <emusan> sightlight: you can actually pirate some distro's
[6:48] <sightlight> I know there can be piracy
[6:48] <Hideki> so in theory there /could/ be piracy in linux
[6:48] <sightlight> yes
[6:48] <sightlight> where there is code there is piracy
[6:48] <mrdragons> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/fragmentation/page-2
[6:49] <mrdragons> ^Strong hints at red hat, post 23
[6:49] <sightlight> wow debian looks so much like windows..
[6:49] <sightlight> I dont think so too much.
[6:50] <emusan> anything can be made to look like windows lol
[6:50] <BarryK> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I7jCSWdRLQ <-- Fedora 13 ARM on Raspberry Pi
[6:51] <sightlight> you guys should search OrangeTurban Linux on google and the go to images!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[6:51] <sightlight> gogogo
[6:51] <sightlight> redhat!
[6:52] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[6:53] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: you don't understand how any of linux works, do you?
[6:54] <sightlight> leave me alone. I like Linux.
[6:54] <emusan> tntexplosivesltd: we all start somewhere
[6:54] <tntexplosivesltd> true
[6:54] <tntexplosivesltd> it's ubuntu's fault
[6:55] <tntexplosivesltd> I blame it entirely
[6:55] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: don't mind me, I am cynical
[6:55] <tntexplosivesltd> very cynical
[6:55] <sightlight> its cool
[6:56] <sightlight> Im download debian and put it in a VB
[6:56] <Hideki> do you mean VM?
[6:56] <emusan> I'm guessing virtualbox
[6:56] <emusan> so yes
[6:56] <Hideki> ah right
[6:57] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-48-178.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:00] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-48-178.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[7:04] <sightlight> I dont think there is debian 64bit intel images?
[7:04] <sightlight> ai386??
[7:08] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:08] <Hideki> hrm, I'm not sure how but I've somehow ended up with 10yr olds forming political parties in my nationstates nation, heh
[7:11] <MartijnVdS> sightlight: there are, amd64 or x86_64 (I don't know how they call it)
[7:12] <tntexplosivesltd> I think the latter most likely\
[7:12] <sightlight> i clicked 386
[7:12] <sightlight> :)
[7:12] <tntexplosivesltd> that's the wrong one
[7:12] <tntexplosivesltd> what's your processor architecture
[7:12] <emusan> he doesn't /need/ 64 bit debian
[7:12] <MartijnVdS> tntexplosivesltd: it's amd64 (same as in Ubuntu)
[7:13] <emusan> he's just messing around with it for a bit...
[7:13] <sightlight> no
[7:13] <tntexplosivesltd> then 386 is the complete wrong one XD
[7:13] <sightlight> I have been on ubuntu for a while
[7:14] <sightlight> just because I dont know too much about it doesnt mean a thing'heck I ont even know how windows work exacly
[7:14] <sightlight> ..........
[7:14] <emusan> I don't think microsoft knows how windows works :P
[7:14] <mrdragons> Not many people know how windows works
[7:15] <emusan> if they did it would be far less buggy
[7:15] <mrdragons> w7 wasn't that bad
[7:15] <emusan> yesh...
[7:16] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:16] <emusan> and xp wasn't horrid lol
[7:16] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: that has nothing to do with it...
[7:16] <mrdragons> And that pretty sums up the best that can be said about microsoft. XD
[7:17] <emusan> lol
[7:32] <sightlight> bye bye
[7:32] <emusan> g'night
[7:32] * sightlight (b807373f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.7.55.63) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[7:35] <tntexplosivesltd> ...
[7:35] <tntexplosivesltd> well
[7:37] <azalyn> [01:14:08] <Hideki> hrm, I'm not sure how but I've somehow ended up with 10yr olds forming political parties in my nationstates nation, heh
[7:37] <azalyn> i would prefer 10 year olds to the current leaders of the usa...
[7:37] <Hideki> www.nationstates.net/nation=the_ghostlands
[7:37] <azalyn> and i mean that literally.
[7:38] <azalyn> i actually think 10 year olds would do better.
[7:38] <Hideki> ahh, heh
[7:38] <Hideki> they could hardly do worse, here either
[7:38] <emusan> lol and then there's the republican candidates :(
[7:38] <emusan> our country is screwed
[7:38] <azalyn> 10 year olds wouldn't bomb foreign countries for oil. :(
[7:39] <Hideki> no, but they might abolish school and that would be bad
[7:40] <azalyn> nah, at the age of 10 they're already intelligent enough to know that it's important.
[7:40] <azalyn> especially these days, kids are extremely scary intelligent.
[7:41] <emusan> lol only some
[7:41] <Hideki> aye
[7:42] <Hideki> our education system is a mess
[7:42] <Hideki> the teachers have no means of enforcing discipline
[7:42] <Hideki> and we've gone the PC route of treating everyone as equal even when they're clearly not
[7:42] <emusan> wewt for one of the lowest literacy rates in first world countries
[7:42] <Hideki> so no sets anymore, everyone taught at teh same level regardless of ability etc.
[7:43] <Hideki> hrm?
[7:43] <emusan> teaching to the lowest common denominator
[7:43] <emusan> are you talking about US?
[7:43] <Hideki> UK
[7:43] <emusan> oh lol
[7:43] <Hideki> it was better when I was at school but it's gone to hell since
[7:43] <emusan> you guys have it fine :P
[7:43] <emusan> compared
[7:44] <azalyn> honestly, we're getting to the point where it's going to be possible to completely decentralize education in the future. so that may not be a big issue for much longer.
[7:44] <Hideki> they've even imported proms from the USA
[7:44] <azalyn> i would like to see education move to the internet.
[7:44] <Hideki> although not at my old shchool, it wouldn't really have worked
[7:44] <Hideki> what with it being an all boys school, lol
[7:44] <emusan> all boys schools have proms here
[7:44] <azalyn> Hideki: why not?
[7:44] <emusan> they just import some girld
[7:44] <Hideki> well, I think it's important for social interaction
[7:44] <emusan> girls*
[7:44] <Hideki> it wasn't allowed
[7:44] <Hideki> boarding school etc.
[7:44] <azalyn> sounds even better to have proms at an all-boys school. ;)
[7:45] <emusan> lol our boarding schools import girls :P
[7:45] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:45] <Hideki> well, we were four miles from the nearest town
[7:45] <emusan> ah
[7:45] <Hideki> I don't think they were up to walking that far
[7:45] <azalyn> just dress some of the boys up into girls.
[7:45] <azalyn> same thing.
[7:45] <Hideki> that's not quite the same thing
[7:46] <Hideki> there are important differences
[7:46] <azalyn> nah.
[7:46] <azalyn> you're just silly.
[7:46] <azalyn> trust me, i know things.
[7:46] <emusan> lol
[7:47] <azalyn> it's time for my beauty sleep. later everyone. ;D
[7:47] <emusan> awww
[7:47] <emusan> g'night
[7:52] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-48-178.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:55] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-48-178.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[8:03] <tntexplosivesltd> wb
[8:03] <sightlight> installing debian
[8:04] <sightlight> i want to see how it is
[8:04] <emusan> goodie!
[8:04] <sightlight> well
[8:05] <sightlight> i dont want a distro that looks like windows to be honest.
[8:05] <emusan> you can make it look quite different quite easily
[8:05] <sightlight> ubuntu use to be like windows but unity changed that big time
[8:05] <emusan> just get a different wm
[8:05] <emusan> GNOME looks more like windows than things like KDE
[8:05] <emusan> so you might want to give that a try...
[8:07] <tntexplosivesltd> it's not the distro... I... ugh...
[8:08] * sightlight (b807373f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.7.55.63) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[8:08] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:08] <emusan> I think you scared him away lol
[8:09] <tntexplosivesltd> the thing is we've said it's not the operating system a few times...
[8:09] <tntexplosivesltd> owel
[8:09] <tntexplosivesltd> he seems pretty good though
[8:10] <emusan> lol yea
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[8:11] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[8:11] * Laogeodritt| is now known as Laogeodritt
[8:12] * mrdragons (~lucas@c-98-204-134-137.hsd1.md.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[8:29] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) Quit ()
[8:31] <BarryK> xfce is well worth a shout
[8:31] <tntexplosivesltd> not really no
[8:31] <BarryK> orxubuntu if you're getting a prerolled one
[8:32] <emusan> lol he left...
[8:32] <BarryK> whats wrong with xfce lol
[8:32] <emusan> well if he's looking for something not like windows/gnome...
[8:32] <tntexplosivesltd> it's large and unnecessary
[8:32] <emusan> but then I haven't really used it...
[8:32] <emusan> lol
[8:32] <tntexplosivesltd> it's all clogged with crap
[8:32] <emusan> tntexplosivesltd: what do you use?
[8:33] <tntexplosivesltd> dwm on one mackine, and openbox on another
[8:34] <emusan> I'm using ratpoison right now...
[8:34] <emusan> it's quite small lol
[8:35] <BarryK> if im using a machine where i need to use alot of windows and move them about general purpose style I pretty much always use xfce, and fluxbox if its for something more dedicated
[8:35] <BarryK> but thats more because its what im used to I guess
[8:53] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, I find I am a lot more productive woth dwm
[8:53] <tntexplosivesltd> it's so nice
[8:53] <tntexplosivesltd> esp. with 2 screens
[8:53] <emusan> I gotta get a second monitor sometime
[8:54] <tntexplosivesltd> it's epic
[8:54] <evert> tntexplosivesltd: a bit offtopic, but can dwm use the mouse nowadays for window movement/resizing? :)
[8:54] <tntexplosivesltd> oh yeah of course
[8:54] <tntexplosivesltd> alt+left click for move
[8:54] <tntexplosivesltd> alt+right click for resize
[8:54] <emusan> that's nice...
[8:54] <tntexplosivesltd> like any windows
[8:54] <evert> ah, nice, last time i was using dwn (a very long time ago) this wasn't possible afaik :)
[8:54] <tntexplosivesltd> all window managers do that
[8:55] <emusan> not ratpoison...
[8:55] <emusan> and the like
[8:55] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[8:55] <evert> tntexplosivesltd: it was, back in the days, a reason for me to start using awesome
[8:56] <evert> i really love the tiled wm, but since i find myself using a mouse a lot, it's really handy to swap/resize windows :)
[8:56] <tntexplosivesltd> heh awesome
[8:57] <evert> thanks, will try dwm again tongight :D
[8:57] <emusan> lol I don't need to touch the mouse for most stuff...
[8:57] <emusan> and dont usually...
[8:57] <tntexplosivesltd> neother
[8:57] <tntexplosivesltd> * neither
[8:57] <evert> the current tiling wm (wmfs) is rather buggy :(
[8:57] <tntexplosivesltd> I like the moving windows to other screens
[8:57] <tntexplosivesltd> alt+shift+> or <
[8:57] * gabriel9 (~quassel@92.241.143.37) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:57] <evert> yeah :)
[8:58] <tntexplosivesltd> to move left/right
[8:58] <tntexplosivesltd> most wms have no concept of 2 or more screens
[8:58] <tntexplosivesltd> can't wait to see what it's like on the R-Pi
[8:58] <tntexplosivesltd> see what its memory foorprint is like
[8:59] <tntexplosivesltd> (spoiler - it's small)
[8:59] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[8:59] <evert> hehe :)
[8:59] <evert> i guess using a webbrowser might be more a memory concern ;)
[8:59] <emusan> links?
[8:59] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, use surf
[8:59] <tntexplosivesltd> (also suckless0
[8:59] <tntexplosivesltd> * )
[8:59] <tntexplosivesltd> =(
[9:00] <evert> emusan: have you tried some real browsing with links recently? :)
[9:00] <emusan> no lol
[9:00] <tntexplosivesltd> mmm, links
[9:00] <emusan> and I don't plan on it
[9:00] <emusan> but it's an option :P
[9:00] <pygo> and lynx
[9:00] <tntexplosivesltd> lynx not so much
[9:01] <tntexplosivesltd> it's funny with some sites
[9:01] <emusan> right now I use firefox+vimperator for mouselessness
[9:01] <evert> i'm somewhat concerned about the cpu speed of the rpi and it's capabilities for daily use :)
[9:01] <tntexplosivesltd> I think is whould be fine
[9:01] * MichaelMalus (~King_ofal@fw-ahshg10-resnet-1.gre.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:01] <tntexplosivesltd> I use a 1GHz at work, don't notice it
[9:02] <tntexplosivesltd> * should
[9:02] <emusan> it should be fine as long as your expectations aren't insane
[9:02] * LiENUS (~whodat@2001:470:bbb3:12:247e:9a1b:5089:9af5) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:02] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[9:02] <evert> i've been using atom dualcore as desktop for nearly a year, and that is sometimes frustrating :(
[9:02] <tntexplosivesltd> too may people expect it to be screamingly fast
[9:02] <tntexplosivesltd> they are dreamers
[9:02] <tntexplosivesltd> unrealists
[9:03] <pygo> aye
[9:03] <emusan> I just installed ubuntu on a single core 1.1GHz laptop for my brother...
[9:03] * gabriel9 (~quassel@92.241.143.37) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[9:03] <emusan> it runs decently
[9:03] <tntexplosivesltd> lynx is annoying with my site, so I use links
[9:03] <evert> we'll see, personally it would be great to be able to use it as a daily computer since it's so lowpower :)
[9:04] <tntexplosivesltd> error 406: Not acceptable
[9:04] <evert> with enough effort on the software side it might be possible :)
[9:04] <tntexplosivesltd> I want to use mine as somewhat of a robotics platform
[9:04] <evert> nice, with the gertboard i assume? :)
[9:04] <tntexplosivesltd> nope
[9:04] <tntexplosivesltd> no way
[9:05] <tntexplosivesltd> I can make my own hardware for that
[9:05] * gabriel9 (~quassel@92.241.143.37) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:05] <tntexplosivesltd> it's simple
[9:05] <emusan> yeah...
[9:05] <tntexplosivesltd> all it does is connect to the GPIO pins
[9:05] <tntexplosivesltd> and motor driver ICs are somple
[9:05] <tntexplosivesltd> * simple
[9:05] <tntexplosivesltd> if I even go down that path
[9:05] <tntexplosivesltd> might just make my own H-bridges
[9:07] <emusan> you're an EE I assume?
[9:07] <tntexplosivesltd> somewhat
[9:07] <tntexplosivesltd> doing Mechatronics
[9:07] <tntexplosivesltd> so mechanical, software and electronics
[9:07] <emusan> that sounds fancy lol
[9:07] <emusan> ah
[9:08] <tntexplosivesltd> atm working as a software engineer with a telecomms company lol
[9:08] <tntexplosivesltd> I still like electronics thought XD
[9:10] <tntexplosivesltd> * though
[9:11] <emusan> I'm studying EE now...
[9:11] <emusan> and physics XD
[9:11] * devyx (~devyx@2001:470:1f15:1482:5eac:4cff:fe56:3f2d) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:11] <tntexplosivesltd> heh ohysics
[9:11] <tntexplosivesltd> * physics
[9:12] <emusan> I get to take quantum this semster :D
[9:12] <tntexplosivesltd> awesome
[9:19] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:19] <tntexplosivesltd> we only did a small amount of quantum physics
[9:20] <emusan> well I just have one semester right now...
[9:20] <emusan> then on to E&M physics
[9:20] * jzu (~jzu@79.174.206.23) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:20] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[9:20] <tntexplosivesltd> you first year?
[9:20] <emusan> yeah...
[9:20] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[9:20] <emusan> skipped first two semesters of physics though...
[9:21] <emusan> AP ftw...
[9:21] <tntexplosivesltd> nice
[9:33] * TrueShiftBlue (~TrueShift@segfault.net.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:34] <emusan> well I must be off to bed now
[9:34] <emusan> g'night
[9:34] * emusan (~tom@149.119.251.114) has left #raspberrypi
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[10:10] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-176-151.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:10] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[10:34] <ahven> morning
[10:37] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:43] <ShiftPlusOne> ahoy
[10:48] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-176-151.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[11:01] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:01] * meltwater (22fd03c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.34.253.3.201) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:01] <meltwater> good morning all, hope everyone had nice w/e's
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[11:07] * spikey (57c2a382@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.194.163.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:07] * FireFly (firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) Quit (*.net *.split)
[11:07] * jbb (~yeeb@184.105.219.149) Quit (*.net *.split)
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[11:14] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-176-151.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:14] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[11:15] * DoctorD (~DoctorD@79.114.151.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:29] * rodrigo_golive (~quassel@189.2.128.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:30] <ShiftPlusOne> bleh, anyone with a WNR3500L around?
[11:31] <haltdef> <-
[11:32] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:32] <ShiftPlusOne> any idea why some wireless traffic is going through eth1 and some through br0 (under 'device list')? the br0 traffic isn't being tracked and it's not showing the signal strength or anything like that
[11:33] <haltdef> nope, I don't use it for wifi
[11:33] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[11:34] <ShiftPlusOne> thanks for mentioning it by the way, pretty happy with it so far... just taking me a while to get used to tomato
[11:34] * Coes`_ (~cxp@67.17.219.20) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:34] <haltdef> you using toastman?
[11:35] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[11:36] <ShiftPlusOne> (1.28.7494 MIPSR2-Toastman-RT K26 USB Ext)
[11:40] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... now it's all going through eth1... except for 1 going through br0... seems kind of arbitary
[11:41] <ShiftPlusOne> and eth1 isn't even in routing options =/
[11:42] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) Quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
[11:54] * meltwater (22fd03c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.34.253.3.201) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[11:57] <RaTTuS|BIG> !w
[11:57] <PiBot> RaTTuS|BIG: in Runcorn, Halton on Mon Jan 16 10:20:00 2012. Temp 1??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 93%, Later 39??F - 30??F. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[11:57] <haltdef> chilly
[11:58] <RaTTuS|BIG> yeah very
[12:02] <haltdef> someone runs a weather station up the road
[12:02] <haltdef> http://dawlishweather.co.uk/
[12:05] <ShiftPlusOne> !w
[12:05] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne: in Seaford, VIC on Tue Jan 17 02:30:00 2012. Temp 25??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 36%, Later 93??F - 72??F. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[12:05] <PiBot> Tue: High 33??C Low 18??C :Condition Partly Sunny
[12:05] <PiBot> Wed: High 27??C Low 13??C :Condition Thunderstorm
[12:05] <PiBot> Thu: High 25??C Low 11??C :Condition Mostly Sunny
[12:05] <ShiftPlusOne> bleh... not looking forward to tomorrow then
[12:07] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:16] <ahven> -3C over here
[12:16] <ahven> atleast it is on the negative scale
[12:16] <ahven> snow and warm weather is worse :P
[12:17] <ShiftPlusOne> where's that?
[12:17] <haltdef> it's not dipped below 4C here this winter
[12:17] <ahven> http://g.co/maps/phfkh
[12:18] <ShiftPlusOne> you could just say estonia, lol
[12:19] <ShiftPlusOne> I am not a yank, I know where stuff is. >=/
[12:19] <haltdef> hrhr
[12:21] <ahven> ShiftPlusOne: sorry :)
[12:22] * devyx (~devyx@2001:470:1f15:1482:5eac:4cff:fe56:3f2d) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:23] <Anppa> -10C in helsinki
[12:24] <ShiftPlusOne> ....that one I had to look up.
[12:25] <ShiftPlusOne> at least with cold weather you can always turn up the heating or put on more clothes.... with hot weather and high humidity you just have to deal with it. =(
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[13:46] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-48-178.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[13:46] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:46] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Crap! Hide the pretzels!!!
[13:46] <IT_Sean> Morning
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[14:11] * haltdef (~ponies@81-179-237-230.static.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:29] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Later)
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[14:31] * IT_Sean sets a modem up to auto-answer on the first ring, then hangs it off his VoIP test line to thwart the telemarketer that keeps leaving messages on it
[14:32] <haltdef> :o
[14:32] * carli2 (~carli@p5DDCB777.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:32] <carli2> hi
[14:33] <IT_Sean> haltdef: :o ?
[14:33] <carli2> when will the rp be available, where can it be shipped and whats the order limit?
[14:33] <haltdef> :o!
[14:33] <IT_Sean> carli2: later this month, worldwide, and one per person to start
[14:33] <IT_Sean> haltdef: problem?
[14:33] <haltdef> no, just a :o
[14:33] <IT_Sean> why?
[14:33] <carli2> one per person.... when will that change?
[14:33] <haltdef> dunno
[14:33] <IT_Sean> I thought it was a brilliant solution
[14:34] <victhor> when they make a larger batch after this one was exhausted
[14:34] <IT_Sean> carli2: no official word. The first sales with be one per.
[14:34] <IT_Sean> ah, there you go. thanks victhor
[14:34] <victhor> otherwise people would just buy 100 of them and sell them for 2x the price on ebay :P
[14:34] <IT_Sean> I hate people that do that.
[14:35] <carli2> not if the rp foundation produces enough boards that nobody has to wait ;)
[14:35] <ReggieUK> or people would buy 100 of them for a commercial product
[14:35] <carli2> or people would equipt class rooms with that :o
[14:35] <victhor> they will produce 10k boards initially, to gauge demand
[14:36] <IT_Sean> carli2: if you want more than one, you will have to wait for the 2nd batch.
[14:36] <carli2> can I preorder? (so that you can plan how much you need to produce?)
[14:36] <IT_Sean> no
[14:36] <IT_Sean> there are no preorders. It goes on sale when it's ready, and you can order it then.
[14:37] <haltdef> I seem to remember reading somewhere they can't legally take any money without having a product in the uk
[14:38] <ahven> we should have a big sign over here: PLEASE READ THE FAQ
[14:38] <carli2> is the production scalable?
[14:38] <IT_Sean> yeah, all of this info is already on the website
[14:39] <IT_Sean> carli2: from the 2nd batch on, once there is a good idea of demand, the raspi should be in perpetually in stock.
[14:40] <carli2> is there a plan for the second batch?
[14:40] <carli2> timeplan^^
[14:40] <victhor> yes, when this one is over
[14:40] <IT_Sean> Yes.... It'll come after ther 1st one.
[14:40] <RaTTuS|BIG> does it come with ponys?
[14:41] <IT_Sean> RaTTuS|BIG: optional extra
[14:41] <RaTTuS|BIG> I want a pony with mine
[14:41] <RaTTuS|BIG> ;-p
[14:41] <IT_Sean> the Pony addon costs another ??75.83
[14:41] <carli2> does the sale version of the raspi have gpio pins, too?
[14:41] <IT_Sean> yes
[14:41] <IT_Sean> the board you see on the website is what you get
[14:41] <IT_Sean> The GPIO is on the production board, but y ou will have to source & solder the pin header yourself
[14:42] <IT_Sean> Again, that info is on. the. website.
[14:42] <RaTTuS|BIG> ^ was just about to mention that
[14:42] * IT_Sean is on it like shite on velcro, RaTTuS|BIG
[14:43] * Guest87566 (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
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[14:46] <IT_Sean> My office is freezing this morning. So, i had a cuppa tea. Result: I'm still cold, and now i need to pee.
[14:46] <ahven> and after you pee, you will get colder
[14:46] <ahven> because you are giving away warm liquid :P
[14:50] * devyx (~devyx@2001:470:1f15:1482:5eac:4cff:fe56:3f2d) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:52] * IT_Sean cannot win this morning.
[14:53] <ReggieUK> get a hot water bottle
[14:53] <ReggieUK> they do pocket sized ones
[14:53] * IT_Sean goes to stand behind the servers for a few minutes
[14:54] <IT_Sean> To be fair... it is about 12 F outside.
[14:54] <IT_Sean> Which is unusually cold.
[14:55] * zgreg (greg@78.47.72.107) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:56] <zgreg> http://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/oicyr/i_have_a_raspberry_pi_beta_board_ama/c3hpf4v
[14:56] <zgreg> haha, what
[14:57] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-128-10.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:57] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
[15:02] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:10] <zgreg> I wonder why man redditors seem so clueless and gullible in general
[15:10] <zgreg> *many
[15:10] <zgreg> sometimes it reminds me of yahoo answers
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[15:15] <IT_Sean> Do people ven still USE yahoo answers? :p
[15:15] <IT_Sean> *even
[15:16] <ShiftPlusOne> because it's an open forum and people with strong opinions tend to share them.... and strong opinions tend to be misguided.
[15:16] <victhor> I know people who use yahoo answers...
[15:16] <victhor> I take it as a joke site. It's entertaining to read sometimes
[15:18] <IT_Sean> It is
[15:18] <ShiftPlusOne> they tend to ask things they can easily look up like "can someone send me a download link for <insert freeware here>", homework questions, and useless polls. So yeah, yahoo answers could be good if it wasn't drowned by stupid questions.
[15:19] <MichaelMalus> I've found my homework questions word-for-word on there before.
[15:19] <MichaelMalus> (Open University)
[15:19] <IT_Sean> It's a good conecpt. But, it's poor in exxecution
[15:22] <dmsuse> the answers on yahoo questions are retarded, just a bunch of know-nothings making answers to questions they have have no business answering, just to get their ratings up
[15:23] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, but that's not a problem, since they will get downvoted
[15:23] <dmsuse> but they don't, that is the funny thing lol
[15:24] <ShiftPlusOne> slashdot has a good system in the comment section
[15:24] <ShiftPlusOne> don't know how it works, I only read the comments, but it does.
[15:25] <MichaelMalus> ShiftPlusOne: IIRC - Moderators give random people the ability to upvote/downvote, and then random users are asked to check if they agree with the decisions.
[15:26] <ShiftPlusOne> as for answers not getting downvoted,it's probably because people who are qualified to answer questions are put off by the stupid questions and don't go on yahoo answers. If there was a clear rule... 'ask homework questions, get banned' and clear separation between the technical/science side and 'entertainment'/trivia crap, then maybe it could work.
[15:27] <MichaelMalus> You looked at StackOverflow?
[15:27] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, I often find answers there, but there are also lots of people answering questions they have no idea about.
[15:28] <ShiftPlusOne> but the highest answers tend to be helpful.
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[16:11] * Davespice (~david.hon@host213-123-203-206.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <Davespice> afternoon all, how is everyone? =)
[16:12] <mrdragons> Pretty good, you?
[16:12] <Davespice> yeah not bad thanks =)
[16:12] <IT_Sean> morning.
[16:14] <Davespice> I read on the forums that the machine is not going to be available for another three months or so, is that correct? I'm not worried about it, I would rather it be ready when it's ready. Just curious.
[16:14] <IT_Sean> I haven't heard that.
[16:14] <haltdef> first i'm hearing about it being 3 months off
[16:15] <IT_Sean> Who did you hear that from?
[16:15] <IT_Sean> 'less it came from eben, or liz, or one of the other razzers, i'd ignore it.
[16:16] <victhor> last time I read they stated it would be available by the end of the month
[16:16] <Davespice> okay, it came from a forum user called 'Joe Schmoe' =) http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/here-i-am-how-do-i-order-one
[16:16] <Davespice> yes that is what I thought too Victhor
[16:16] <spikey> see post 4
[16:16] <rm> what the f***
[16:17] <rm> it's almost someone is deliberately trying to stir rumours about "3 months"
[16:17] <victhor> that's because the post on the home page about manufacturing said they would have a 3 month lead time if they manufactured it in the UK
[16:17] <rm> I will not be surprised if Davespice *is* that poster on the forum
[16:17] <victhor> but they are doing it elsewhere, so (according to them) the lead time is 3-4 weeks I think.
[16:17] <Davespice> really rm?
[16:17] <Dagger3> ... that very post also said they _won't_ be made in the UK
[16:17] <Davespice> My forum user is also called Davespice
[16:18] <rm> it was plainly said that NO NOT THREE MONTHS on the very link you post here
[16:18] <rm> so what else do you want to know? other than throw it around more?
[16:18] <rm> > is not going to be available for another three months or so, is that correct?
[16:18] <rm> "Admin" answered to you that No, it's not correct
[16:18] <Davespice> I was being unobservant and didn't see post 4, I must have missed it - calm down
[16:19] <rm> I fail to see any other purpose of a discussion
[16:19] <rm> other than seed FUD etc
[16:19] <Davespice> you need to take a chill pill mate
[16:20] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:20] <victhor> that's how I feel when I read certain posts on the forum... seriously
[16:21] <Caver> I'm guessing he was guestimating that the 1st batch will sell out fairly fast, but once the 2nd/3rd batches come along there should be some stock levels
[16:21] <Caver> but defo just guess work
[16:21] <Davespice> I know there is a lot of flogging of dead horses, but seriously, lets all keep our hair on, jeez man
[16:22] <Caver> exactly .. see what happens, then worry about it
[16:22] * Davespice shrugs
[16:22] <victhor> I almost wanted to make a account and vent off at that guy who suggested a microSD slot and 4K decoding.
[16:23] <victhor> seriously, it's a $35 computer and SD > micro SD
[16:23] <mrdragons> There's not a lot of new ideas there either, almost everything at some point has been taken into consideration by the foundation
[16:23] <Davespice> Victhor agreed, a lot of people just missing the whole point
[16:24] <IT_Sean> a lot of other people aren't reading the FAQ
[16:24] <victhor> they want a PC not a embedded computer. I'm fine with 700 MHz ARM11 and 256 MB of RAM thank you very much.
[16:24] <victhor> $35.
[16:24] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:26] <Caver> more to the point ... they can only make it from parts you can actually buy off the shelf
[16:27] <Davespice> I have stopped posted on the forum now, everything that could be discussed has been, everything on top of that is people just making stuff up to talk about. That will change after release though.
[16:27] <dmsuse> victhor: what is your intended use?
[16:27] <zgreg> I anticipate that many people will be very disappointed
[16:27] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[16:27] <IT_Sean> zgreg: only the people that are expecting a full on computer for #35
[16:27] <haltdef> I don't see why microsd vs sd really matters
[16:27] <zgreg> "what, it won't run crysis?!" (ok, that's a bit exaggerated :D)
[16:27] <IT_Sean> &$35
[16:28] <victhor> dmsuse, some random NAS thingy. A underpowered one at that...
[16:28] <Davespice> disappointed by not being bale to get one greg?
[16:28] <Davespice> able*
[16:28] <haltdef> if anything full sd is better just for its compatibility with micro with a dirt cheap adapter
[16:28] <dmsuse> victhor: are you sure it is powerful enough for that :P
[16:28] <zgreg> Davespice: no, by the computing power and performance
[16:28] <IT_Sean> agreed. SD > Micro SD
[16:28] <victhor> sure, but the problem is HDs and ethernet sharing a USB port
[16:28] <Davespice> oh really? interesting... I imagine it might be a bit slow browsing the web
[16:28] <victhor> terrible performance at best...
[16:29] <victhor> at least I have full access to the software
[16:29] <IT_Sean> The only people who will be disapointed are the people who are expecting too much of the thing.
[16:29] * Davespice nods
[16:29] <mrdragons> I don't think the shared usb/ethernet will be a big problem
[16:29] <IT_Sean> And those people are idiots. It ocsts $35. It is NOT going to be a powerhouse :p
[16:29] <victhor> it's too cheap, why would anyone think it can replace a i7 or phenom x6...?
[16:29] <zgreg> IT_Sean: and if you look at the forum, that'll be lots of people :)
[16:29] <Davespice> I don't know what to expect really, am expecting the gpu to output at 1080p fairly well with a good framerate
[16:29] <dmsuse> i saw that web browsing video, that was posted on the web earlier and it is much slower than i had hoped
[16:29] <IT_Sean> zgreg: i have no sympathy for idiocy
[16:30] <mrdragons> It's not idiocy, it's more ignorance
[16:30] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:30] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/oicyr/i_have_a_raspberry_pi_beta_board_ama/
[16:30] <victhor> gah I remember using midori on a cortex a8 with 256 MB of RAM, it was unpleasant at best
[16:30] <victhor> if you involved javascript that is...
[16:30] <dmsuse> isn't the cortex 3x faster?
[16:30] <mrdragons> The problem is people are going to try and run a bloated desktop OS under it
[16:30] <Caver> does anyone know if flash is likely to be available for it?
[16:31] <mrdragons> It'll need a really trimmed-down distro, and stock fedora/debian won't be it
[16:31] <Caver> I'd imagine it's going to be gnash at least for starters
[16:31] <dmsuse> Caver: absolutely not, it will be too slow :P
[16:31] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:31] <zgreg> mrdragons: a stripped-down OS won't make web browsing faster
[16:31] <Caver> :P
[16:32] <mrdragons> Well, yeah, but still.
[16:32] <victhor> gnash is extremely slow on x86
[16:32] <zgreg> meaning, this does help to some degree, but there are limits
[16:32] <victhor> let alone on ARM.
[16:36] <Davespice> Mr Dragons, would you consider LXDE to be bloated?
[16:36] <mrdragons> Nah, but that's not the OS
[16:36] <Davespice> I'm not going to argue... I'm just interested to know
[16:36] <zgreg> re: performance of raspberry pi. I guess many people are jumping to false conclusions. they assume since it can decode 1080p it's pretty powerful overall.
[16:36] <zgreg> or something along these lines
[16:37] <Davespice> I was thinking of trying it with a few different distros on different SD cards
[16:37] <Caver> good idea
[16:37] <dmsuse> zgreg: nah, people think its powerful because the pi project are showing videos of a desktop games running on this thing...
[16:37] <dmsuse> *and games
[16:37] <zgreg> dmsuse: well, the same thing basically
[16:37] <Caver> thats the great thing about the Pi, very easy to have a stack of different SD cards for different setups
[16:37] <ahven> Caver: no flash
[16:38] <Davespice> I currently have Debian, Fedora and Arch in the mix to try out - but I'm open to others too
[16:38] <ahven> and not coming either, afaik
[16:38] <Caver> nods - I remember it being mentioned in the forums as a maybe
[16:38] <Caver> but not for definate
[16:38] <ahven> better move to html5
[16:38] * wewillquacku (5ead6278@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.98.120) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:38] <dmsuse> and to be candid, if the pi project thinks kids and going to get into this thing when they won't even be able to browse the web to research programming, they are mistaken :P
[16:39] <Caver> nods I was thinking for all the people who want to use it for video streaming ... like it or not, flash is used a lot
[16:39] <zgreg> Caver: well, raspberry pi is not very different from existing boards like beagleboard in this regard. these can also boot from SD card.
[16:39] <Caver> zgreg: I know :)
[16:39] <zgreg> well, you made this sounds like a novelty
[16:39] <zgreg> -s
[16:40] <victhor> I wonder if blendtec bought the #1 board and plans to blend it :P
[16:40] <zgreg> ahven: html5 video isn't going to work well on raspberry pi either
[16:40] <victhor> I don't think midori supports any video format
[16:41] <Davespice> I suppose we'll have to wait and see what the package list looks like when we first boot it
[16:41] <mrdragons> Que?
[16:41] <Caver> someone put it rather well recently, in that really you can think of a modern browsers as being a complete Operating System, and just as complex
[16:41] <mrdragons> Midori supports html5 video better than firefox
[16:41] <victhor> last time I used midori it didn't work...
[16:41] <dmsuse> better than ?
[16:41] <victhor> I don't remember the version
[16:41] <mrdragons> It supports more formats at the least
[16:41] <zgreg> well, the problem isn't browser support, it's performance
[16:42] <dmsuse> more formats = not html5
[16:42] <zgreg> dmsuse: haha
[16:42] <victhor> I know epiphany supports h.264 and VP8, midori uses webkit like it
[16:42] <zgreg> html5 <video> does not specify any formats at all
[16:42] <victhor> but I never got youtube html5 to work on midori. It was ages ago though
[16:42] <mrdragons> I thought it did? 0_o
[16:43] <dmsuse> html5 = theora video and vorbis audio
[16:43] <zgreg> err, no
[16:43] <victhor> nope
[16:43] <zgreg> again, look at the standard. there are no recommendations for formats and codecs
[16:44] <victhor> youtube supports 3 formats I think.
[16:44] <victhor> H.264, VP8 and some other
[16:44] <mrdragons> webm
[16:44] <dmsuse> hmm
[16:44] <atts> have there been any user reviews from the people who won the boards on ebay?
[16:44] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/oicyr/i_have_a_raspberry_pi_beta_board_ama/ <- atts
[16:44] <Caver> sota --> http://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/oicyr/i_have_a_raspberry_pi_beta_board_ama/
[16:44] <Caver> hehe snap
[16:44] <victhor> mrdragons, I'm going to install a newer version and see if it works
[16:44] <RaTTuS|BIG> ;-p
[16:44] <atts> sweet thanks
[16:45] <dmsuse> my god no wonder flash hasn't disappeared yet, we can't even get any standards set out
[16:45] * jzu_ (~jzu@79.174.206.23) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:45] <victhor> hmm no it only supports h.264 and webm.
[16:46] <victhor> the third box is for the video tag
[16:46] <Caver> I think theora was going to be in for a while, but then dropped
[16:46] <Caver> mind you there is a lot moreto html5 than video streaming
[16:46] <dmsuse> well h.264 is proprietory, seems silly not to choose theora
[16:46] <victhor> midori 0.4.3 supports H.264 and WebM, thus it works with youtube html5.
[16:47] <mrdragons> So there are different formats?
[16:47] <zgreg> theora is just too crappy
[16:47] <victhor> webm is royalty-free so more browsers can use it
[16:48] * wewillquacku (5ead6278@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.98.120) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[16:48] <victhor> youtube html5 works on midori.
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[16:51] <zgreg> at 3fps in raspberry pi? :D
[16:51] <zgreg> s/in/on/
[16:52] <Caver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UWwUEPh9EI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL mirodi on a Pi ...
[16:53] <ShiftPlusOne> Davespice, I should slap you.
[16:53] <ShiftPlusOne> video description "Using the Midori browser on Debian Squeeze with LXDE"
[16:53] <dmsuse> sloooooooooooooooow :P
[16:53] <ShiftPlusOne> What browser??? is that, Iceweasel?
[16:53] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-vBbqamNBU&feature=related <- qt5 on pi
[16:53] <ShiftPlusOne> Davesp1ce 2 hours ago
[16:54] <Davespice> thanks mate, I'll get my coat
[16:54] <ukscone> morning all
[16:55] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning
[16:55] <Caver> mind you .. as yet it's not got the full amount of RAM, and doesn't have the accelerated 3D driver, so it should get better in a few releases time
[16:55] <Davespice> I didn't actually see the description when I first watched the video, maybe it was added later
[16:55] <zgreg> a bit, but page load time won't be affected by gpu drivers
[16:55] <ShiftPlusOne> probably
[16:56] <Davespice> it does make me look like a moron though... =)
[16:56] <Caver> no but it will be affected by the free RAM
[16:57] <Caver> as at the moment the GPU is reserving half the 128M which it doesn't need too
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[17:01] <Mowi> Hello
[17:01] <Mowi> Do we have some news about the release ?
[17:01] <Davespice> *fwap*
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[17:02] <Caver> nope ... we know as much as you do
[17:03] <Mowi> Now I know as much as you do ^^ I didn't follow this since a while
[17:03] <Mowi> Thanks
[17:03] <Davespice> has anyone been a victim of dodgy flash memory?
[17:03] <ShiftPlusOne> sure
[17:03] <Davespice> I've just been checking out h2testw 1.4
[17:04] <Caver> whats that?
[17:04] <Davespice> its a utility that does a low level byte write across all the allocation units on the flash memory, or so I believe
[17:05] <Davespice> and it can detect if the hardware has been tampered with to report a false capacity size to the OS
[17:05] <Caver> nods ... do you think you'd had a problem?
[17:05] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... mine wasn't dodgy in terms of speed, but capacity. You could write as much as you wanted to it, but you couldn't read anything back past the first MB. Was meant to be an 8GB stick, I think.
[17:05] <Davespice> yeah thats the common issue...
[17:05] <ahven> hehe, Cyriak got a lot of attention, again :)
[17:05] <ahven> with that last video
[17:06] <haltdef> first MB sounds like a fault rather than fake
[17:06] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh, the guy sold 100s of them
[17:06] <Davespice> fakes are usually 1 or 2 GB passed off as 64 GB
[17:06] <ShiftPlusOne> all the same
[17:06] <Davespice> fair enough then... was it ebay?
[17:06] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[17:06] <Davespice> bastards
[17:07] <Davespice> there is a system for reporting them now, did you do that?
[17:07] <ShiftPlusOne> obviously the guy didn't reply, but he also didn't reply to the paypal despute, so I automatically got my money back
[17:07] <haltdef> not sure why they bother tbh
[17:07] <Davespice> yeah, I think I might just buy all my SD cards from a high street jessops =)
[17:08] <haltdef> surely 95% will want their money back, 100% will get it back
[17:08] <ShiftPlusOne> what do you mean?
[17:09] <Davespice> maybe it's paypal who foot the bill and they take the money and run
[17:09] <ShiftPlusOne> paypal sometimes foot the bill
[17:10] <ShiftPlusOne> for example if a buyer gets their bank to reverse the charge where paypal 'ruled' in favour of the seller
[17:10] * Davespice nods
[17:11] <Davespice> here is a link to the tool, I've just put it in my public dropbox folder http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14125489/h2testw_1.4.zip
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[17:11] <Davespice> it has German and English language modes
[17:12] <haltdef> could have just linked to its site ????
[17:14] <Davespice> I have it in my dropbox because it took me a while to find its main site
[17:15] <Davespice> I think this is it, but I don't read German so well; http://www.heise.de/software/download/h2testw/50539
[17:18] <haltdef> the "download" bit is english :>
[17:20] <haltdef> thought my 8GB micro card was dead, suddenly fine, h2testw agreed
[17:20] <haltdef> is also the fastest card I own for random writes so it'll go in my raspi
[17:20] <Davespice> =)
[17:22] <Caver> wise :)
[17:22] <Davespice> I was thinking about buying several cheapish 2 or 4 GB ones just so I can muck about with different distros and then maybe shell out for a larger 16 or 32 SDHC for when I find the one I want to run with
[17:22] <Caver> I wonder which will be faster .. swap on your SD card, or swap onto a ethernet share :)
[17:23] <haltdef> well, 200KB/s vs the sub-50KB/s of my other cards
[17:23] <Davespice> what brand is it haltdef?
[17:23] <haltdef> kingston I believe
[17:23] <traeak> pretty sad....
[17:23] <traeak> wonder if the gpu can be repurposed to stream compress/uncompress file blocks
[17:23] <haltdef> I hear sandisk generally kick ass at randoms
[17:24] <haltdef> not gonna spend money on it if this one's fine though
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[17:24] <Caver> well I think a lot of them rebadge hardware, so it's hard to tell what you'll get
[17:27] <victhor> GPU work isn't completely "general purpose" - there are things it does well, and there are things it doesn't do well
[17:27] <traeak> i know and we dont' have opencl like access to it
[17:27] <traeak> more limited
[17:29] <Caver> nods .. would be fantastic to have a python lib that could talk too it]
[17:30] <Davespice> indeed Caver, I hope one will be made in time :)
[17:31] <Caver> that and the DSP would make for some very cool lashups
[17:31] <Caver> hmmm I wonder if we could ever get baudline compiled for it
[17:32] <Caver> always a great one for impressing kids
[17:32] <Davespice> If the SDL is okay on it then a load of stuff should just build and run :)
[17:33] <Caver> SDL?
[17:33] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:33] <Davespice> http://www.libsdl.org/
[17:34] <Caver> ahh
[17:34] <ReggieUK> sdl should be more than ok on it
[17:34] <ReggieUK> we got sdl working well enough on a digital photoframe
[17:35] <ReggieUK> 266mhz
[17:35] <ReggieUK> no acelleration
[17:35] <ReggieUK> got sdl running well enough to run doom on a 393mhz arm 9 handheld too, also no acelleration
[17:36] <Davespice> I want Schizm Tracker... =)
[17:36] <ReggieUK> http://sites.google.com/site/repurposelinux/df3120
[17:36] <ReggieUK> I got kobo deluxe running on that
[17:36] <ReggieUK> works quite well with the wiimote
[17:38] <Davespice> thats cool Reggie, nice project
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[17:39] <ReggieUK> I only got bits and bobs working on that but buserror, sprite and claude did lots of legwork
[17:39] <ReggieUK> http://elinux.org/LeapFrog_Pollux_Platform
[17:39] <ReggieUK> I did a fair bit of work on this project though
[17:40] <ShiftPlusOne> there we go... I haven't seen you mention LeapFrog in ages.
[17:40] <traeak> reggieuk fine for appliance work
[17:40] <Davespice> wow, nice...
[17:41] <ReggieUK> sdl is incredibly useful for low power units, don't need X or anything else, just build a gui and away you go
[17:41] <ReggieUK> http://elinux.org/LeapFrog_Pollux_Platform:_sdlDoom
[17:41] <ReggieUK> https://github.com/Reggi3/ExplorerDoom
[17:41] <traeak> original doom ran fine on a 386 though
[17:41] <traeak> so that's not saying much :-p
[17:42] <ShiftPlusOne> do you build your gui from scratch, or using some libraries?
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[17:42] <ReggieUK> sdl would be the lib to use for a gui from scratch really
[17:42] <traeak> i'm sorry that was wolf3d...doom required a 486 to run well....ugh me
[17:42] <ReggieUK> I didn't write sdldoom, just ported to work
[17:42] <traeak> yeah
[17:43] <Dagger3> it didn't _require_ a 486
[17:43] <DoctorD> what do you think..do you will have the posibility to make a webserver from raspberry pi boards ?
[17:43] <ShiftPlusOne> but would you use some other lib which uses SDL to manage the GUI side of things or just go with pure SDL?
[17:43] <ReggieUK> but don't forget this is running on an arm9 393mhz, no acelleration at all, everything including the OS in 32mb
[17:43] <traeak> Dagger3: i just recall the one place we could play it well on campus was at the brand new 486 lab
[17:44] <Dagger3> it did definitely run on a 386, though I seem to remember having to decrease the screen size to get playable frame rates
[17:44] <traeak> DoctorD: runnin grpi as a web server will be a major piece of cake
[17:44] <traeak> Dagger3: that means it didn't run well on a 386 :-p
[17:44] <DoctorD> traeak: what do you mean ?
[17:44] <Dagger3> oh, didn't see the "well" in there :p
[17:45] <atts> ShiftPlusOne: SDL doesnt have much in terms of common GUI components, so probably use another library on top of it
[17:46] <ShiftPlusOne> atts, any you are aware of that you could recommend?
[17:46] <traeak> i'm not sure sdl is *that* great...it's fine for lowest common denom cross platform
[17:46] <traeak> but we may be able to optimize a bit better on the rpi
[17:47] <atts> ShiftPlusOne: not really, i've been using SDL for games and it's a pain in the ass to make menus and stuff where i could really use some common components like lists and buttons
[17:47] <ShiftPlusOne> I've been writting my own with SDL and OpenGL, but it's a bit more than I am comfortable with
[17:49] <atts> http://www.libsdl.org/libraries.php a bunch of SDL libraries here, not sure which ones are worth checking out though
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[17:49] <ReggieUK> SDL has lots of different libs that bolt on to the main SDL
[17:50] <ReggieUK> that give you lots of different options
[17:50] <ReggieUK> from fonts, audio, networking, 2d gfx, 3d stuff through opengl etc.
[17:50] <ReggieUK> if you can't build a gui with that, well, you shouldn't be trying to make guis :D
[17:51] <traeak> just wondering what type of gui is all :-p
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[17:54] <atts> what's the minimum you need to have running in order for an SDL app to run? does it require a window manager like LXDE?
[17:55] <ReggieUK> nope
[17:55] <ReggieUK> minimum is a working framebuffer driver
[17:56] <atts> cool
[17:56] <ReggieUK> that's why it's pretty useful
[17:56] <traeak> the good/bad about base STL is that you install textures into SDL
[17:56] <traeak> it's a PITA to get them back though
[17:56] <ReggieUK> just give it the res and bit depth and away you go
[17:56] <traeak> that's the only headache with the cross platform layer
[17:57] <atts> will it make good use of the raspi GPU if i just use the frame buffer driver?
[17:57] <ReggieUK> depends if they open up the gpu to us
[17:57] <ReggieUK> as I inderstand it we will get openGLES lite?
[17:57] <traeak> ReggieUK: considering they had quake3 running on opengl without X or anything we should have that
[17:57] <ReggieUK> understand*
[17:57] <victhor> SDL uses software rendering by default. I think there is opengl support
[17:58] <ReggieUK> then SDL will utilise it
[17:58] <ReggieUK> as long as you code it to :)
[17:58] <victhor> GL ES != GL
[17:58] <azalyn> SDL 1.3 is apparently going to fix a lot of SDL problems. but it breaks compatibility.
[17:58] <victhor> yeah SDL has to be changed to make use of ES
[17:59] <traeak> just a lower level driver for SDL to go through
[17:59] <ReggieUK> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/How_to_utilise_OpenGL_ES_2.0_on_Symbian%5E3_and_Maemo
[17:59] <traeak> if it has good composting it'll be an utter win to do sdl over the GPU
[17:59] <traeak> speed and power win
[18:00] <traeak> so the advantage of doing it via sdl is that today you'll have the framebuffer support
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[18:00] <traeak> and automagically get upgraded to the accelerated later
[18:00] <traeak> i'm not aware of other frame buffer type toolkits there are available
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[18:01] <victhor> there is directfb (accelerated) and they have intentions of making it work with the pi.
[18:01] <zgreg> AFAIR sdl cannot accelerate any of its drawing
[18:02] <azalyn> sdl is more portable. it will pretty much run anywhere..
[18:02] <zgreg> it provides a windows system for opengl, that's all
[18:02] <azalyn> with just a recompile
[18:02] <zgreg> *windowing system abstraction
[18:02] <zgreg> so you don't need to care about glx, wgl, egl, etc.
[18:03] <azalyn> zgreg: yeah, that's very important.
[18:03] <azalyn> since wayland is replacing X, and wayland cannot work with GLX unless it loads all of X in compatibility mode.
[18:03] <ReggieUK> directfb should be quite easy given that they've got all the info they need for the pi (assuming this is the pi team porting directfb)
[18:04] <zgreg> wayland is not replacing X
[18:04] <zgreg> not any time soon, and maybe never
[18:05] <ReggieUK> isn't there an sdl version of mame?
[18:05] <Davespice> Reggie, that would be bloody awesome =)
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[18:08] <victhor> I used to think MAME was CPU-bound
[18:10] <ShiftPlusOne> mame works fine on android, don't see why it wouldn't on the pi
[18:10] <Davespice> you're emulating the instruction set of the arcade machines... so it should be possible on any arcitecture
[18:11] <zgreg> MAME works, but is unlikely to perform well
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[18:12] <Davespice> would the GPU be no help there?
[18:12] <victhor> mame has no GPU support
[18:12] <victhor> it is software rendering only. not sure about sdlmame...
[18:13] * Davespice nods
[18:13] <zgreg> the GPU would be useful for scaling the output, but not anything else
[18:13] <victhor> mame is about "accuracy", for some reason they avoid "rendering glitches" by doing software rendering
[18:14] <zgreg> for most software, gpu is literally irrelevant
[18:14] <Davespice> okay I see
[18:14] <zgreg> it's nice that the raspberry pi has a powerful gpu, but in most case it won't help
[18:14] <ShiftPlusOne> I suppose you have more control with software rendering and don't have to rely on different hardware doing exactly the same thing
[18:14] <zgreg> and *especially* it won't help without major hacking
[18:14] <ShiftPlusOne> but I just made that up, so I don't know
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[18:15] <zgreg> the same is true for video decoding
[18:15] <zgreg> vlc, mplayer, gstreamer, et al won't magically make use of the decoding hardware
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[18:15] <ShiftPlusOne> but if you look at pandora, their guys have done great work at optimizing their software
[18:16] <zgreg> I don't know why, but some people assume that this stuff "just works"
[18:16] <ShiftPlusOne> and there is at least one of the main guys from pandora looking forward to getting his hands on a pi
[18:16] <victhor> mplayer needs VDPAU to work, which must be provided by the driver
[18:16] <victhor> I think gstreamer and vlc support it too
[18:16] <victhor> but again, it is a library that I think is hardware-specific
[18:16] <zgreg> there's no driver support for the common libraries, like vdpau or va-api
[18:19] <zgreg> ShiftPlusOne: sure, but the pandora has quite a bit more raw cpu power to start with :)
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[18:20] <victhor> and NEON
[18:20] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, what I am saying is that I am sure there will be enough people to get things up and running
[18:20] <victhor> actually I used mplayer with NEON quite satisfactorily on a omap3.
[18:20] <victhor> although mplayer is integer only iirc...
[18:21] <zgreg> neon is great for integer simd
[18:22] <ShiftPlusOne> gah... oolite looks like a great game, but I can't figure anything out.... feels like when I first tried dwarf fortress =/
[18:22] <ShiftPlusOne> except df has more and better documentation
[18:23] <Thorn_> oolite is for lamers
[18:23] <Thorn_> try Pioneer :p
[18:24] <ShiftPlusOne> never
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[18:32] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
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[18:38] <Davespice> see ya later peeps o/
[18:38] <ShiftPlusOne> 'night
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[19:30] <Shift_> could someone recommend a decent adsl2+ modem?
[19:31] <rm> what I can recommend, is to not get a fancy all-in-one device...
[19:31] <rm> like ADSL + gigabit router + wifi, for super$$$
[19:31] * datagutt_ is now known as datagutt
[19:31] <rm> and then you change ISP to a non-ADSL one
[19:32] <rm> and have to get rid of the thing
[19:32] <haltdef> dg834gt is the best I've found, I can tweak my snr below what my isp will do for me
[19:32] <Shift_> yeah, i've got a new router which works fine.... I just need a modem which doesn't suck.
[19:32] <haltdef> bridged to a wnr3500l running tomato, that does routing and my wndr4000 running stock does wifi
[19:32] <haltdef> sod all in ones :P
[19:32] <haltdef> does your isp insist on pppoa?
[19:33] <Shift_> which one is pppoa?
[19:33] <haltdef> the one spelled with an a rather than e
[19:33] <haltdef> :P
[19:33] <Shift_> I don't know what the method is called, but it just requires a username and password.
[19:33] <haltdef> yeah they both do
[19:33] <Shift_> ok, lemme check the setting then
[19:34] <datagutt> woah
[19:34] <haltdef> you can't use pppoa with another router with the dg834gt bridged, your isp needs to support pppoe
[19:34] <datagutt> look at the amount of users
[19:34] <Shift_> PPPoE
[19:34] <haltdef> unless you use a draytek vigor 100 or 120
[19:34] <datagutt> We are still not official though
[19:34] <haltdef> yeah, no issues then, bridge a dg834gt :P
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[19:35] <MartijnVdS> my adsl/gbit router can also use one of its LAN ports instead of DSL As its WAN end
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> Fritz!Box 7390
[19:35] <haltdef> I've never seen that
[19:35] <Shift_> hmm, I think that's the one internode sell
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> haltdef: My employer/ISP uses them for FttH and A/VDSL
[19:36] <haltdef> ah
[19:36] <haltdef> isp routers can usually be bridged
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> and FTTH is "plain" ethernet
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[19:36] <haltdef> even if they're shit routers they can be fine bridged, not doing hard things like NAT
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> (well not really, it's pppoe with a media converter from fibre to gigabit ethernet, but it's not magic like DSL)
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> haltdef: Fritz!Box runs Linux and has "custom" firmware available
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> ("Freetz")
[19:37] <Shift_> should probably do an isolation test to make sure it's the modem at fault, but it's so transient, that I wouldn't be able to tell anyway. =/
[19:37] <haltdef> the name rings a bell
[19:38] <haltdef> what issues are you seeing?
[19:38] <Shift_> the internet drops out and the modem says "Your DSL router is not ready to connect to Broadband." for a while.
[19:38] <zgreg> I don't get it why ISPs still use pppoe around here
[19:39] <haltdef> is it losing sync or pppoe?
[19:39] <zgreg> it doesn't make sense and the reduced MTU tends to cause issues
[19:39] <Shift_> looked it up online and it seems to be either faulty hardware or bad filtering or... I don't know.
[19:39] <Shift_> haltdef, wouldn't know how to tell
[19:39] <haltdef> the status of the various LEDs might be helpful
[19:39] <haltdef> when it drops out
[19:40] <Shift_> ah, no physical access to the modem
[19:40] * paul- (u4804@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pogtadqcgtqhjpfp) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:40] <haltdef> fun
[19:40] <haltdef> can you see adsl stats? they should include an uptime
[19:40] <Shift_> yeah, that drops to 0
[19:41] <haltdef> adsl or router uptime?
[19:41] <_inc> are there any plans by people to make a router out of the RPi?
[19:41] <mrdragons> At some ppoint probably
[19:41] <rm> sure some are going to
[19:41] <ctyler> you'd have to add another eth
[19:41] <Shift_> haltdef, adsl, I don't think the router resets.
[19:41] <mrdragons> I plan to use it as a small http server
[19:41] <_inc> would it be worth it? the ethernet is quite slow?
[19:42] <mrdragons> It's not that slow...
[19:42] <haltdef> just enough usb bandwidth for 2x100mbps I'd say
[19:42] <haltdef> Shift_, with uk wiring you can bypass all internal extension wiring .. might be an idea to do that
[19:42] <ctyler> but you only really need to be as fast as your ISP for a residential router
[19:42] <haltdef> not sure how similar phone wiring is anywhere else
[19:43] <_inc> well for streaming hi-def movies onto a frontend, apparently it is too slow
[19:43] <Shift_> tomato doesn't seem to lose connection to WAN, so it's just the internet connection which drops.
[19:44] * robde_ (~robde@p57902E4D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:44] <_inc> i think making an answering machine/switchboard sorta deal might be a good project to hack with
[19:45] <_inc> how would one interface a phonline to a machine? are there such peripherals on the market?
[19:45] * robde (~robde@pC19F7A19.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:45] <haltdef> usb modem of some sort
[19:46] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] * Shift__ (~Shift@124-148-148-162.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] <Shift__> ...and just then >=/
[19:46] * Shift__ is now known as ShiftPlusOne
[19:48] * Shift_ (~Shift@124-148-130-163.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:48] <ShiftPlusOne> though I've got a chinese modem I could try... but I don't know how to set it up since it's all in chinese.... and I don't really trust the firmware, which is specific for Chinese ISPs...
[19:49] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:50] <tntexplosivesltd> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2012_01/putting_sopa_on_a_shelf034765.php
[19:50] <tntexplosivesltd> victory
[19:51] * Jaseman (5f93f1a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.147.241.169) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:51] <Simon-> zgreg: PPPoE supports full size MTU using RFC4638
[19:51] <Jaseman> Hi. I've been brushing up on my Python today
[19:51] <emusan> tntexplosivesltd: wewt!
[19:52] <Jaseman> anyone planning to learn it?
[19:52] <mrdragons> Awesome
[19:52] <mrdragons> I am now. :P
[19:52] <Jaseman> its actually quite a cool language
[19:52] <Jaseman> once you get to grips with it
[19:52] <_inc> tntexplosivesltd: so now the internets wont turn off on the 18th?
[19:53] * paul- (u4804@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mksmwqznpbpaeiia) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:53] <tntexplosivesltd> Jaseman: I use it at work, it's kinda meh
[19:54] <zgreg> Simon-: ok, but is that supported in practice? I haven't seen it...
[19:54] <emusan> tntexplosivesltd: so PIPA is still a possibility though?
[19:55] <mrdragons> I prefer C/C++, but yeah, python is a great langauge, espescially for people learning
[19:55] <zgreg> and still, pppoe is an extra layer that isn't really needed
[19:56] <tntexplosivesltd> emusan: probably not for ages
[19:56] <Jaseman> im too lazy for C++
[19:56] * cousteau (~cousteau@80.174.59.221.dyn.user.ono.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:56] * MartijnVdS writes Perl for a living
[19:56] <Jaseman> the pygame add-ons are very handy
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> It and python are the laziest languages I know :)
[19:56] <emusan> what about ruby?
[19:56] <mrdragons> I don't like the way perl looks. :P
[19:56] <tntexplosivesltd> emusan: lolol
[19:56] <cousteau> how is it possible that you can install Arch on RPi if Arch is only compiled for i686 and x86_64?
[19:56] <emusan> :P
[19:57] <emusan> look up arch on arm
[19:57] <mrdragons> Archlinux ARm
[19:57] <_inc> cousteau: ArchArm
[19:57] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[19:57] <tntexplosivesltd> cousteau: http://archlinuxarm.org/
[19:57] <cousteau> oh, so not Arch but some kind of fork
[19:57] <tntexplosivesltd> that's how
[19:57] <haltdef> I thought arch was similar to gentoo, roll your own type thing
[19:57] <mrdragons> Yep
[19:57] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> mrdragons: perl can look like whatever you want it to
[19:57] <tntexplosivesltd> haltdef: pretty muck
[19:57] <cousteau> about Debian, it would just be the plain normal armel Debian, right?
[19:57] <tntexplosivesltd> * much
[19:58] <cousteau> MartijnVdS, perl is nice, but it's somehow scope-limited
[19:58] <cousteau> i.e. it's a very specialized language
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: It can do anything you want, and CPAN is awesome (if you know how to filter rubbish modules)
[19:58] * robde (~robde@p5790382C.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:58] <mrdragons> MartijnVds: Dunno, it's just kinda weird-looking regardless
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: But our software grew from sysadmins in the 90s, so that's how we got stuck with it :)
[19:59] <cousteau> MartijnVdS, well, hexedit can also do anything you want
[19:59] <zgreg> perl is a horrible language
[19:59] <zgreg> perl6 is kind of amusing, though
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: I don't think it's better or worse than many other languages. It even has a proper (nice-looking) OO framework now (Moose)
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> zgreg: perl6 was born dead imho
[19:59] <Jaseman> im building up my own little library of python functions
[19:59] <zgreg> MartijnVdS: that's why
[20:00] <Simon-> zgreg: it's supported in the UK on BT FTTC
[20:00] <cousteau> For example: A few days ago I had the brilliant idea of making an image processor in Perl, because it was the only language I had available
[20:00] <cousteau> (image = RGB data; filter = a simple median filter)
[20:00] * robde_ (~robde@p57902E4D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> doesn't sound too hard
[20:01] <cousteau> well, it was kind of ugly, and handling binary files (this was on Windows) took me a lot to figure out
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> ah yes, Windows and binary files. YOu'd have that problem in C too
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> most languages even
[20:02] <cousteau> however Perl is awesome for (1) text processing and (2) process communication
[20:02] <zgreg> for IPC? how so?
[20:02] <cousteau> MartijnVdS, well, in C is just fopen(..., "rb") instead of fopen(..., "r")
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> zgreg: it has lots of low-level C-ish IPC functions built in
[20:03] <zgreg> but that's not "awesome"
[20:03] <cousteau> "rb" is even standard C, I think, so writing code with "rb" would be portable to Linux
[20:03] <tntexplosivesltd> making perl handle binary files is simple...
[20:03] <cousteau> zgreg, well, it's way easier to call processes and communicate with them via stdin/out than it is with Python or C
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: in Perl it's just open my $fh, "<:raw", "filename";
[20:03] <cousteau> tntexplosivesltd, well, not intuitive at least
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: or open my $fh, "<", "filename"; binmode $fh;
[20:04] <cousteau> <:raw? I thought it was |raw
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> http://perldoc.perl.org/PerlIO.html :)
[20:04] <zgreg> cousteau: hm, I don't see how. it works very similarly in e.g. python
[20:04] <cousteau> oh, for binary files
[20:04] <zgreg> besides, I don't really *want* to go as lowlevel as in C in a scripting language
[20:04] <tntexplosivesltd> binmode($fh);
[20:04] <cousteau> zgreg, well, Python 2.7 did some work for calling processes, but for <=2.6 it's a hell
[20:04] * warddr (~warddr@d54C53109.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] * warddr (~warddr@d54C53109.access.telenet.be) Quit (Changing host)
[20:04] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:05] <tntexplosivesltd> win
[20:06] <cousteau> well, binmode took me a while. I read somewhere that it was something like `use binary;` or something like that, but that didn't work
[20:06] <cousteau> *binmode took me a while to find
[20:06] <zgreg> cousteau: hmm, subprocess, popen, etc. is old as heck... what did 2.7 add, really?
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> it's a bit weird, agreed
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> but I came from DOS so I knew there had to be a way to do it :)
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> (this is >10 years ago, obviously)
[20:07] <cousteau> zgreg, not sure, but it was easier to open a process and associate it with a file descriptor after 2.7
[20:08] <tntexplosivesltd> cousteau: only took me a small amount of googling to find http://www.devx.com/DevX/Tip/17116
[20:08] <tntexplosivesltd> "For some reason, there exists a common misconception that there is no cross-platform, built-in way in Perl to handle binary files."
[20:08] <cousteau> MartijnVdS, anyway, "designing an image filter" is NOT what Perl was made for
[20:08] <tntexplosivesltd> LOL
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: I agree, it's not :)
[20:08] <cousteau> also, writing to binary files... is that even possible?
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: but that doesn't mean it can't be done sanely
[20:08] <tntexplosivesltd> yes...
[20:08] <tntexplosivesltd> see abive link
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: yes.. same way as reading
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> tntexplosivesltd: above link has ANCIENT perl
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> new method:
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> open my $fh, ">:raw", "filename"
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> ;
[20:09] <cousteau> tntexplosivesltd, as in "writing 100 will print '\x64' and not '100'"
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: chr()?
[20:09] <tntexplosivesltd> if you write it as a number yes
[20:09] <cousteau> like, writing binary output and not text output (nothing to do with cr-lf now)
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: ord?
[20:10] <cousteau> or "writing an int as a 4-byte little-endian number"
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> ah:
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> pack/unpack
[20:10] <cousteau> oh, perl has that?
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> perldoc -f pack
[20:10] <cousteau> dammit, there goes my argument
[20:10] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:10] <_inc> To all CompSci alumni: any good tips or resources for revising for an 'Agile Methodologies' exam?
[20:10] <PiBot> IT_Sean| Crap! Hide the pretzels!!!
[20:11] <cousteau> hi shawn!
[20:11] <cousteau> (trollface)
[20:11] <IT_Sean> cousteau: please make an effort to spell my name properly, or i shall start calling you wankface.
[20:12] <haltdef> haha
[20:12] * cousteau considering a nick change
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> *Pokerface*
[20:12] <tntexplosivesltd> MartijnVdS: interesting, those layers can be applied to the binmode function
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> tntexplosivesltd: yes, you can dynamically alter the layers on an fh
[20:12] <tntexplosivesltd> so I wouldn't call it "the old way"
[20:12] <cousteau> which layers? pack/unpack?
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: no :raw (binary/ascii mode, UTF-8 string auto en/decoding)
[20:13] <tntexplosivesltd> cousteau: http://perldoc.perl.org/PerlIO.html
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: Writing a pack/unpack filter wouldn't be hard though
[20:13] <cousteau> ok... that would have been awesome, though
[20:14] * MartijnVdS only learned most of this by going to YAPC::EU and having coworkers who compile dev versions of perl as a hobby
[20:14] <tntexplosivesltd> MartijnVdS: also binmode() is packwards compatible
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> tntexplosivesltd: I don't care about Perl <5.10 ;)
[20:14] <tntexplosivesltd> backwards too
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> Even Debian stable has 5.10
[20:14] <cousteau> what's YAPC? yet another Perl catalog?
[20:14] <cousteau> or community?
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: perl conference
[20:14] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah neither, but if the customer uses it...
[20:15] <cousteau> or comprehensive archive network?
[20:15] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[20:15] <cousteau> oh, conference
[20:15] * robde_ (~robde@p57903D4C.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:16] * robde (~robde@p5790382C.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:17] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:17] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:17] <PiBot> ukscone| hand over the twiglets
[20:18] * NIN102 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:20] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:21] <haltdef> mmm, theme hospital on raspi might work
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> haltdef: how? in dosbox?
[20:21] <haltdef> corsixTH
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> ah, a clone
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> cool!
[20:22] <haltdef> it does depend on some original files though
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> sure, but I have an original TH-for-DOS CD-ROM here :)
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> somewhere
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> looks like it could be almost as much fun as OpenTTD
[20:22] <haltdef> can't imagine they'd be architecture dependant
[20:22] <haltdef> I wonder if the cpu might be too slow to run the simulation
[20:23] <haltdef> had openttd running fine on a slower clocked armv6 under windows mobile .. maybe :P
[20:30] * robde (~robde@p57903415.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:32] * robde_ (~robde@p57903D4C.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:35] * Shift_ (~Shift@124-170-35-128.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-148-162.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:56] * robde (~robde@p57903415.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[20:57] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (*.net *.split)
[20:57] * FireFly (firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) Quit (*.net *.split)
[20:57] * jbb (~yeeb@184.105.219.149) Quit (*.net *.split)
[20:57] * zilch (~zilch@cs27101227.pp.htv.fi) Quit (*.net *.split)
[20:57] * vvvfjjuoghg (alison@unaffiliated/crazytales) Quit (*.net *.split)
[20:57] * vvvfjjuoghg (alison@nyancat.incien.so) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:57] * NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:57] * zabomber (~zabomber@203-219-247-88.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Excess Flood)
[20:57] * vvvfjjuoghg is now known as Guest1894
[20:58] * zabomber (~zabomber@203-219-247-88.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] * jbb (~yeeb@184.105.219.149) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] <traeak> !w
[20:58] <PiBot> traeak: in Parker, CO on Mon Jan 16 13:53:00 2012. Temp -2??C. Condition: Cloudy, Humidity: 69%, Later 41??F - 9??F. Condition: Chance of Snow.
[20:58] <IT_Sean> !w
[20:58] <PiBot> IT_Sean: in Boonton, NJ on Mon Jan 16 22:53:00 2012. Temp 31??F. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 37%, Later 31??F - 31??F. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[20:58] <PiBot> Tue: High 45??F Low 29??F :Condition Rain
[20:58] <PiBot> Wed: High 36??F Low 18??F :Condition Mostly Sunny
[20:58] <PiBot> Thu: High 32??F Low 25??F :Condition Mostly Sunny
[20:59] <traeak> clear blue skies...few high level coulds
[20:59] * Guest1894 is now known as vvvfjjuoghg
[20:59] <IT_Sean> oooh... it's up to 31!
[20:59] <IT_Sean> it was down about 9F this morning.
[20:59] * robde (~robde@pC19F7B4D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] * vvvfjjuoghg (alison@nyancat.incien.so) Quit (Changing host)
[20:59] * vvvfjjuoghg (alison@unaffiliated/crazytales) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <IT_Sean> froze my arse off
[20:59] <traeak> hmm
[20:59] * FireFly (firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <IT_Sean> hmm?
[20:59] <emusan> heya traeak :P
[21:00] <IT_Sean> sunny here. but still freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezing
[21:00] <traeak> emusan: hay.... done terrorizing the-nd guys ?
[21:00] <emusan> lol I stopped that awhile ago
[21:00] * BarryK (5211f3ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.17.243.236) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[21:00] <emusan> he deleted mine and panda's accounts over the summer
[21:00] * treaves (~treaves@pdpc/supporter/active/treaves) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] <emusan> then we stopped
[21:00] <traeak> hype and vapor
[21:00] <emusan> lol yup
[21:01] <traeak> eon probably is DOA as well
[21:01] <emusan> yeah...
[21:01] <emusan> though it could start up again...
[21:01] <emusan> if we ever get someone that could do the PCB...
[21:01] <traeak> dunno, the chinese seem to have almost half way figured it out
[21:01] * Jaseman (5f93f1a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.147.241.169) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[21:02] <emusan> with what?
[21:02] <traeak> emusan: doing handhelds
[21:02] <emusan> yeah, but not as nice as eon would have been
[21:02] <traeak> emusan: true, but for under $150
[21:02] * robde_ (~robde@p57903854.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:02] <traeak> emusan: and the mx.i515 or whatever is pretty dog slow nowadays
[21:03] <traeak> emusan: whatever they last choose for the cpu
[21:03] <rm> !w
[21:03] <IT_Sean> haha
[21:03] <rm> doesn't know where I am, eh? :))
[21:03] <IT_Sean> you have to tell it
[21:03] <IT_Sean> try !help
[21:03] <traeak> !help
[21:04] <emusan> !help
[21:04] * robde (~robde@pC19F7B4D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:05] <tntexplosivesltd> so how do you specify a country?
[21:05] <tntexplosivesltd> also can you make it do ??C?
[21:05] <tntexplosivesltd> the help tells me not a lot
[21:06] <IT_Sean> did you look at !help set?
[21:06] * selvi (578fe7d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.143.231.216) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:06] <IT_Sean> I don't remember the commands, but, if you dig around in !help, you should find it
[21:06] <tntexplosivesltd> oh I see
[21:07] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: it seems they broke 'C' in that the forecast is in 'F' now :(
[21:07] <IT_Sean> !help
[21:08] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[21:08] <tntexplosivesltd> what is the "zone" option?
[21:08] <traeak> oh geez someone did add kelvins
[21:08] <tntexplosivesltd> * kelvin
[21:08] <cousteau> tntexplosivesltd, !weather_set c I think
[21:08] <cousteau> !w
[21:08] <tntexplosivesltd> yea, have done
[21:08] <tntexplosivesltd> !w
[21:08] <PiBot> tntexplosivesltd: in Wellington, Wellington. Temp 12??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 77%.
[21:08] <IT_Sean> try !weather_set c then !weather_set [your postcode]
[21:09] <cousteau> hmm, pibot no love me?
[21:09] <tntexplosivesltd> already have
[21:09] <emusan> !w
[21:09] <PiBot> emusan: in Syracuse, NY on Mon Jan 16 18:54:00 2012. Temp 273K. Condition: Overcast, Humidity: 45%, Later 31??F - 31??F. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[21:09] <emusan> lol exactly 0 here :P
[21:09] <rm> 273K O.o
[21:09] <cousteau> emusan, cool
[21:09] <cousteau> literally
[21:09] <IT_Sean> no. cold
[21:09] <IT_Sean> cold as ****
[21:09] <cousteau> brass monkey... etc
[21:10] <cousteau> lol, http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Schizophrenic-Haiku-Comments-and-More.aspx
[21:10] <IT_Sean> aye
[21:10] <IT_Sean> cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey
[21:10] <tntexplosivesltd> so is that wellington there one in the US?
[21:10] <tntexplosivesltd> or does it do international too?
[21:10] <traeak> ahh haiku....could be an interesting port
[21:10] <rm> it kind of....does
[21:10] <rm> !w
[21:10] <PiBot> rm: in Tyumen, Tyumenskaya oblast. Temp -27??C. Condition: Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 76%, Later 1??F - -18??F. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[21:10] <traeak> how much ram does haiku typically hog ?
[21:10] <rm> :P
[21:10] <emusan> traeak: agreed
[21:11] <emusan> I gotta set up a VM with their latest release...
[21:20] <tntexplosivesltd> oh I see zone is timezone
[21:22] <tntexplosivesltd> !w
[21:22] <PiBot> tntexplosivesltd: in Wellington, Wellington. Temp 14??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 59%.
[21:22] <PiBot> Wed: High 20??C Low 15??C :Condition Clear
[21:22] <PiBot> Thu: High 20??C Low 16??C :Condition Mostly Sunny
[21:22] <PiBot> Fri: High 20??C Low 13??C :Condition Clear
[21:22] <PiBot> Tue: High 18??C Low 13??C :Condition Mostly Sunny
[21:22] <tntexplosivesltd> whoops
[21:22] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:22] <tntexplosivesltd> yay it's warming up
[21:22] <cousteau> !w
[21:23] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[21:23] <cousteau> pibot doesn't wuv me
[21:23] <cousteau> !weather_set c
[21:23] <PiBot> cousteau: You're now using celsius.
[21:23] <tntexplosivesltd> you need to set your location and stuff
[21:23] <cousteau> !w
[21:23] <tntexplosivesltd> do that in pm
[21:23] <tntexplosivesltd> with pibot
[21:23] <cousteau> !w Stockholm
[21:23] <PiBot> cousteau: in Stockholm. Temp 1??C. Condition: Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 100%, Later 34??F - 27??F. Condition: Chance of Snow.
[21:23] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[21:23] <tntexplosivesltd> use PM
[21:24] <cousteau> hmm... ok, let me test
[21:24] <cousteau> (in PM)
[21:25] <cousteau> is it weird that I manually installed a font package I didn't have for a language I don't know just because I wanted to see those ???_??? emoticons?
[21:25] <tntexplosivesltd> nope
[21:25] <tntexplosivesltd> I did the same
[21:25] <MartijnVdS> It's normal.
[21:25] <tntexplosivesltd> lohit-fonts ftw
[21:26] * sightlight (b807373f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.7.55.63) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> ???? - I don't know if screen mangles it
[21:26] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> the Unicode 6 emoticons are great anyway
[21:26] <traeak> emusan: physics doing okay or getting killt ?
[21:26] <sightlight> hello treak
[21:27] <cousteau> MartijnVdS, ok, that char is definitely not in my font collection, also I'm not interested in any char past \uFFFF
[21:27] <cousteau> tntexplosivesltd, lohit? I thought kannada
[21:28] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: http://xahlee.org/comp/unicode_6_emoticons.html
[21:28] <cousteau> (awkward moment in which I check whether lohit is written in kannada characters (or the other way around) and I just said BS)
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: they now have \o/ as one character
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> and ???_???
[21:29] <IT_Sean> how do you get that one ^
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> haven't found (??????????????????? ????????? yet though
[21:29] <emusan> traeak, they're okay so far... get to take quantum this semster :D
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> IT_Sean: which one? the ???_??? one?
[21:29] <IT_Sean> yes
[21:29] <IT_Sean> I can SEE it. How do i type it?
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> IT_Sean: I've aliased it in my irssi
[21:29] <IT_Sean> oh
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> IT_Sean: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/%E0%B2%A0%E0%B2%A0-look-of-disapproval
[21:30] <IT_Sean> thx
[21:30] <cousteau> MartijnVdS, ok that's weird
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> IT_Sean: that explains the unicode code points (Ctrl+Shift+U number space)
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: table flipping!
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: in rage
[21:30] <cousteau> and (??????????????????? ????????? rocks
[21:30] * r4pha (~rapha@unaffiliated/r4pha) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:30] <cousteau> MartijnVdS, no, I mean, the fact that Unicode has \o/ is weird
[21:30] <izua> no, it doesn't ??????_???
[21:30] <IT_Sean> that's brilliant! :p
[21:31] <izua> hmm
[21:31] <izua> why can't i paste unicode
[21:31] <cousteau> or is it "a character that looks like \o/"? just like ???
[21:31] <izua> unicode also has tengwar
[21:31] <izua> and a bunch of other weird stuff
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> IT_Sean: three-eye look of disapproval.. is it THAT bad?
[21:32] <cousteau> MartijnVdS, about table flip, I think it's one of the awesomest icons out there (there's also a version with ???-shaped arms)
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> cousteau: no it's 1F64C - Person raising both hands in celebration
[21:32] * treaves (~treaves@pdpc/supporter/active/treaves) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> http://blog.vemod.net/post/749765631/unicode-6-0-will-come-with-emoticons-u-1f64c
[21:33] <cousteau> along with ?????????(??_??)????????? and ???_??? and (V) (;,,;) (V)
[21:33] * sightlight (b807373f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.7.55.63) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[21:33] <IT_Sean> I've always done middle fingers like so: .!..
[21:34] <izua> olo is pretty much the epitome of it
[21:34] <izua> and it also appears in books such as "biology"
[21:35] <cousteau> IT_Sean, that's also brilliant
[21:35] <IT_Sean> easier to do as well on mobile devices.
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> ???????
[21:35] <IT_Sean> tehe!
[21:35] <cousteau> and t(>_<t) (ASCII-safe)
[21:36] * IT_Sean now wants to get a black t-shirt made with just .!.. in white silkscreened on it. :p
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> IT_Sean: http://www.cafepress.com/nucleartacos.26721820
[21:37] <IT_Sean> can't click on stuff
[21:37] <IT_Sean> at work
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> IT_Sean: so type it?
[21:37] * FirewallCastle (~Firewall@cpc1-jarr9-0-0-cust502.gate.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:38] <IT_Sean> I don't want cafepress on my network logs, and my iPad is in my bag. I'll check it out later
[21:42] <FirewallCastle> Hi Everyone.
[21:42] <dmsuse> hi
[21:43] <IT_Sean> hi
[21:45] <FirewallCastle> I do hope that one day, a change will be made in schools, schools stop drilling Microsoft into kids, and show kids the side of Linux, the freedom of choice, the power of knowledge, teaching kids how to use their imaginations in developing programs and games
[21:46] <IT_Sean> Would these schools be in the magical fairy kingdom, or the magical unicorn land? 'cause, either way... it'd be a hell of a commute.
[21:46] <IT_Sean> (i agree completly with you, but, i don't see that happening overnight)
[21:48] <FirewallCastle> I understand this isn't something that can happen over night
[21:48] <emusan> tbh I don't think everyone should use linux...
[21:48] <mrdragons> If only...
[21:48] <mrdragons> Why not?
[21:48] <emusan> 90% of computer users only use their computer for facebook and youtube
[21:48] <emusan> and maybe email
[21:49] <emusan> there's no reason they should pick one OS over another
[21:49] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[21:49] <mrdragons> That's not a reason to not use linux
[21:49] <emusan> Linux doesn't play very well with flash...
[21:49] <rm> they should pick FOSS over proprietary software :)
[21:49] <emusan> but once that's gone then I gues...
[21:49] <mrdragons> Flash 11 works pretty well with it actually
[21:49] <emusan> but why should they pick Linux?
[21:50] <rm> and that mostly means using GNU/Linux currently
[21:50] <mrdragons> ^^
[21:50] <emusan> the majority of computer users don't even know what an OS is...
[21:50] <emusan> not saying that's a good thing
[21:50] <emusan> but I don't think there's much motivation to change...
[21:52] <FirewallCastle> emusan, from past experience, schools tell kids "you need windows to use a computer", they don't seem to want to understand there is choice, FOSS
[21:52] <IT_Sean> that is true
[21:52] <mrdragons> Yeah...
[21:52] <IT_Sean> 99% of my teachers were windows drones
[21:52] * robde_ (~robde@p57903854.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Bye.)
[21:52] <emusan> well that's more due to the teachers being rather dumb...
[21:52] <emusan> well are you talking about highschool level or college?
[21:52] <IT_Sean> I carried an apple laptop in high school, and all my teachers thought that i'd "never get anything intelligent done on that"
[21:52] <mrdragons> I feel really lucky to have the tech teacher I do at my high school
[21:53] <emusan> because at my highschool I knew more about computers than the IT department...
[21:53] <IT_Sean> emusan: high school, mostly
[21:53] <IT_Sean> although, i had a few college profs that were like that, as well.
[21:53] <IT_Sean> Not many, but, a few.
[21:53] <FirewallCastle> emusan, high school
[21:53] <traeak> hmm
[21:53] <IT_Sean> I did have one teacher in high school who as an apple nutter
[21:54] <IT_Sean> :p
[21:54] * amazoph_ (~amazoph@nebula.void.li) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:54] <emusan> there were maybe two faculty in my highschool that knew what an OS was lol
[21:54] <IT_Sean> the rest were all windoze drones.
[21:54] <emusan> same IT_Sean
[21:54] <traeak> the one danger to rpi that I see....is that MS decides to create their own educational device and fully subsidizes it so that it's free, running an MS OS
[21:54] <IT_Sean> most of my highschool level computer courses SUCKED. They were all "this is a mouse, this is a keyboard, this is word"
[21:54] <traeak> *if* MS even thinks they want to do this
[21:54] <traeak> but if the rpi takes off it's a huge danger to them
[21:54] <mrdragons> The problem with MS is they never want you to know how a computer and OS actually works
[21:54] <IT_Sean> indeed
[21:55] <IT_Sean> MS just want you to go on using the thing, not understanding how it really works.
[21:55] <traeak> and i hate to be cynnical....but most school "computer" educators wouldbe more than happy with the same old same old MS drivel
[21:55] <emusan> IT_Sean: to be fair, I don't think most of the people /at/ MS know how windows works :P
[21:55] <traeak> emusan: also MS is a pretty big company, not just the OS division
[21:56] <traeak> they've got problems with lots of politics internally
[21:56] <IT_Sean> emusan: i don't think ANYONE at MS knows how a computer works :p
[21:56] <emusan> lol
[21:56] <emusan> traeak: I know...
[21:56] <IT_Sean> really... it's all just "ooooh shiny!" these days.
[21:56] <traeak> IT_Sean: hate to say it, but they sort of do..that's how they maintain such an extent of backwards compatibility
[21:56] <emusan> the zune guys are actually not half bad...
[21:56] <mrdragons> Zune is dead now isn't it?
[21:56] <traeak> although their win32 api's are pretty much shibata
[21:56] <emusan> yes, but it was far superior to ipod imo
[21:57] <emusan> traeak: ever get your n900 working properly?
[21:57] <IT_Sean> traeak: Windows stopped being about a quality OS and started being about eye candy several years ago, IMO.
[21:57] <IT_Sean> They seem to care more about it "looking good" than actually working properly.
[21:57] <emusan> so did Ubuntu...
[21:57] <traeak> emusan: nah, i have to take out the battery to charge
[21:57] <traeak> emusan: i lost my new battery at airport security
[21:57] <IT_Sean> !!!
[21:57] <izua> windows was a quality os at some point?
[21:57] <emusan> (imo)
[21:57] <IT_Sean> the bloody TSA wankers took it!?
[21:57] <izua> i suppose you also remember the time /b/ was good?
[21:57] <traeak> i guess i'm probably in the market for a new phone anyways
[21:57] <IT_Sean> izua: well... compared to what it is now?
[21:57] <FirewallCastle> raspberry pi has been in the press well since last year, so if microsoft was going to do anything, they would of done it already.
[21:58] <traeak> IT_Sean: nah, i bet when i pulled out taht monster beast laptop i have to carry that the phone battery fell out
[21:58] * r4pha (~rapha@unaffiliated/r4pha) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[21:58] <IT_Sean> Microsfot annouances new "Strawberry Cake" dev board. News at 11! :p
[21:58] <IT_Sean> ahh
[21:58] <mrdragons> Prolly, but they may see it as just another dev board
[21:58] <FirewallCastle> ms have had time to pre-pair something, so far nothing has appeared from them
[21:58] <traeak> IT_Sean: a new batt is about $5 or so, i'm not sure its worth it
[21:58] <traeak> the n900 is pretty much totally dead
[21:58] <traeak> as a platform
[21:59] <IT_Sean> ah
[21:59] <emusan> nooooooooooooo
[21:59] <emusan> don't say that!
[21:59] <emusan> all lies!
[21:59] <IT_Sean> heh
[21:59] <emusan> <3 my n900
[21:59] <traeak> yeah, sad
[21:59] <emusan> I sleep with it every night :P
[21:59] <emusan> maemo 5 is the best mobile OS out there...
[21:59] <IT_Sean> Urf... speaking of batteries.... I JUST got a replacement battery for my (now nine years old) laptop (i know, i know) and now the HD i popped in it last week (afterr the old HD went tits up) is going tits up.
[21:59] <traeak> i'm actually quite pissed, even with a new battery it only stays charged for at most 2 days
[22:00] <traeak> i really want a phone that does calls well and holds a charge for a week or so
[22:00] <traeak> i don't really care so much about the other crap, i want a phone that makes phone calls well :-p
[22:00] <emusan> lol I just wanted a phone that doesn't
[22:00] <IT_Sean> get a dumbphone then. something by samsung.
[22:00] <traeak> yeah, probably
[22:00] <emusan> but it has xterm factory installed lol
[22:01] <haltdef> I'm still a bit sad about maemo 5 :(
[22:01] <FirewallCastle> demand for raspberry pi looks very high :D
[22:01] * rodrigo_golive (~quassel@189.2.128.130) Quit ()
[22:01] <traeak> well samsung bada is merging with tizen
[22:01] <traeak> for whatever that's worth
[22:02] <haltdef> n900's a bit bulky and redundant now I carry a umpc though
[22:02] <emusan> which umpc?
[22:02] <IT_Sean> I've got a samsung dumbphone via Verizon, and it's brilliant. I charge it slightly less than once a week, and manage to make my two or three calls a week without issue.
[22:03] <FirewallCastle> I wonder how many new gadgets/ideas/projects will come from the raspberry pi
[22:03] <traeak> IT_Sean: yeah, exactly...i have an older nokia flip phone that is the same
[22:03] <traeak> IT_Sean: it just didn't have a camera with it
[22:03] <haltdef> viliv n5
[22:03] <traeak> IT_Sean: which dumbphone ?
[22:03] <IT_Sean> um... some samsung flip. Lemme pull the battery & get a model for you
[22:03] <traeak> heh
[22:03] <IT_Sean> SCH-U350
[22:04] <traeak> i'm guessing it does quad band, has a camera and speakerphone?
[22:04] <IT_Sean> it has a camera and a speakerphone. Dunno about quadband
[22:04] <emusan> haltdef: gosh, those are $$$
[22:04] <FirewallCastle> I wonder who will be the first to get the raspberry pi to make a cup of tea :D
[22:04] <traeak> $50 used/unlocked
[22:04] <emusan> haltdef: nice thing about the n900 is it goes for like $250 off amazon
[22:04] <emusan> or did for awhile
[22:04] <traeak> IT_Sean: be nice for international travel
[22:04] <haltdef> yeah, tbh they're not comparable
[22:05] <haltdef> not a phone, x86, 1080p decoding
[22:05] <IT_Sean> I got mine through Vzn, so, it's pretty locked down. Can't even do bluetooth file xfer. But, it does make good calls. :p
[22:05] <traeak> emusan: the quick battey burn kind of pisses me off
[22:05] <FirewallCastle> do we know the cpu or memory speed in the raspberry pi?
[22:05] <emusan> yeah...
[22:05] <IT_Sean> I have an iPhone via my company for smartphone stuff
[22:05] <emusan> traeak: I get well over a day of heavy use... charge it at night
[22:05] <traeak> emusan: if you forget to charge it? k-boom
[22:06] <traeak> emusan: forget the charger on a trip ? k-boom
[22:06] <haltdef> I've noticed the n900 has a few battery drain bugs
[22:06] <haltdef> leave it in standby doing nothing, come back after a few hours .. dead
[22:06] <traeak> IT_Sean: 2.55USD battery off amazon (hehe)
[22:06] <emusan> traeak: I use it as my alarm clock so if I forget to bring it to bead I'm screwed for more rasons than taht
[22:06] <traeak> emusan: yeah, exactly
[22:06] <emusan> still my favorite device
[22:07] <traeak> IT_Sean: proprietary data cable is yuk...is the charger microusb ?
[22:07] * IT_Sean tries to break crap
[22:07] <IT_Sean> traeak: no, it's some proprietary bastard cable
[22:07] <haltdef> you using the community ssu, emusan?
[22:07] * FirewallCastle wonders what the cpu or memory speed in the raspberry pi?
[22:07] <emusan> FirewallCastle: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard
[22:08] <emusan> haltdef: community ssu?
[22:08] <haltdef> OS updates from the community
[22:08] <_inc> Would the SoC be overclockable?
[22:08] <haltdef> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
[22:08] <FirewallCastle> Ah
[22:08] <IT_Sean> FirewallCastle: everything you might want to know about hte raspi is on the website
[22:08] <FirewallCastle> :D
[22:08] <traeak> hm..seems i screwed up the epipolar geometry...grr
[22:08] <FirewallCastle> this, i over looked
[22:09] <emusan> haltdef: didn't know about that lol
[22:09] * IT_Sean mutters a few swear words as he fails utterly to break something
[22:09] <emusan> haven't really been keeping up with the community stuff
[22:09] <haltdef> it's rock solid aside from the battery drain issue
[22:09] <haltdef> I don't think the community ssu is responsible for that though
[22:09] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) has left #raspberrypi
[22:12] <FirewallCastle> "Raspberry Pi website to go dark on Jan 18 to protest against SOPA"
[22:13] <emusan> idk if that whole thing is still happening...
[22:13] <cousteau> FirewallCastle, "go dark" = "black background"?
[22:13] <emusan> SOPA's been benched methinks...
[22:13] <emusan> cousteau: for most places it means go down completely or redirect to anti-SOPA stuff
[22:13] <cousteau> or put a black rectangle about the "berry" in "raspberry"?
[22:14] <FirewallCastle> cousteau, oh, i thought it meant, "black/blank" going "dark" for 24 hours
[22:14] <cousteau> FirewallCastle, oh ok
[22:15] <FirewallCastle> It's a shame the raspberry pi couldn't be made in the UK
[22:16] <haltdef> taxed for breathing in this sodding country :P
[22:16] <FirewallCastle> :p
[22:16] <IT_Sean> and then taxed again on the tax.
[22:17] <mrdragons> It's funny, america split from the UK partly because of excessive taxes. :P
[22:17] <FirewallCastle> the tories would love to tax us for walking i bet
[22:17] <mrdragons> Well, britain
[22:17] <chris_99> does anyone know of a good electronics simulation program?
[22:17] <haltdef> tax on everything we buy
[22:17] <haltdef> OH WAIT
[22:17] <emusan> lol
[22:17] <_inc> was the BBC micro manufactured in the UK?
[22:18] <mrdragons> I hardly any better here though lol
[22:18] <mrdragons> it's
[22:18] <FirewallCastle> I blame the milk snatcher
[22:18] <emusan> where's here?
[22:18] <haltdef> varies a lot by state doesn't it
[22:18] <mrdragons> 'Merica
[22:18] <FirewallCastle> "margaret thatcher"
[22:18] <emusan> we're much better off than UK lol
[22:18] <emusan> tax wise
[22:19] <haltdef> might dig out my n900 ????
[22:19] <haltdef> one app I've never found .. useful alarm clock
[22:19] <emusan> evilalarm?
[22:19] <FirewallCastle> the tories only care for the ritch
[22:19] <emusan> I <3 evilalarm...
[22:19] <_inc> we're better off than the states, healthcare wise
[22:19] <haltdef> not heard of that one
[22:19] <mrdragons> I have to buy an n900 used, they've been getting fairly cheap on ebay
[22:19] <emusan> _inc: yes
[22:19] <emusan> haltdef: it's evil lol
[22:19] <emusan> with default settings
[22:19] <haltdef> can it gradually increase the volume so as not to scare the bejesus out of me?
[22:19] <haltdef> o
[22:19] <mrdragons> I really hope this doesn't turn into uk vs us...
[22:20] <IT_Sean> it had better not
[22:20] <emusan> not sure about that haltdef
[22:20] <_inc> :D
[22:20] <IT_Sean> The last time that happend, a load of perfecly good tea got waste.d
[22:20] <haltdef> gentle alarm on android is nice, it sounds a very quiet "pre-alarm" half hour before your main alarm
[22:20] <_inc> i like america's theme tune
[22:20] <haltdef> very gradually increases the volume each time
[22:20] <_inc> the one they used in 'Team America'
[22:20] <emusan> haltdef: you could always just edit the sound file lol
[22:20] <haltdef> "just"
[22:20] <mrdragons> "edit"
[22:20] <emusan> :P
[22:20] <haltdef> I have it pick a random track from all of my music
[22:21] <haltdef> bought my n900 to be a pocketable computer, I don't require that from my phone anymore so I got a cheap android phone
[22:21] <haltdef> lighter, slimmer, mild annoyance if I lose it
[22:21] <haltdef> only ??100
[22:21] * IT_Sean sets haltdef's alarm sound to the opening to London Calling, and sets it for maximum volume
[22:22] <haltdef> :(
[22:22] * FirewallCastle think's the UK should be booming with jobs now.
[22:22] <IT_Sean> that sould wake you, AND the neighbors! :p
[22:22] <haltdef> one of the downsides to maemo, it's a fantastic OS but only 5 people use it
[22:22] <haltdef> :(
[22:23] <mrdragons> I wonder how tinzen will be recieved
[22:23] * cousteau has used moblin
[22:23] <emusan> would be better if Nokia actually cared about the n900 in the least
[22:23] <haltdef> the plan was to carry on with maemo in the form of meego
[22:23] <emusan> $0 to marketing = very little userbase
[22:23] <mrdragons> Well, they were bought out by microsoft, so...
[22:23] <emusan> then the dropped meego lol
[22:23] <cousteau> it was cool, waaay better than the linpus my netbook had and kinda same resource-usage (and boot time)
[22:23] <emusan> derp
[22:23] <haltdef> then microsoft paid them a few dollars, now wp7 nastiness :(
[22:24] <cousteau> it was too incomplete, though - had to move to Lubuntu. That was a nice move.
[22:24] <cousteau> haltdef, I have an interesting love-and-revenge conspiracy theory about microsoft and nokia
[22:25] <FirewallCastle> I hope the raspberry pi's servers will cope with demand on release day
[22:25] <FirewallCastle> fingers crossed
[22:25] <FirewallCastle> ill be up @ midnight :D
[22:25] <izua> when's the release day?
[22:25] <FirewallCastle> anyone else?
[22:25] <IT_Sean> izua: it is when it is
[22:25] <haltdef> raspi team know what they're doing, they have it covered
[22:25] <FirewallCastle> couple weeks isn't it?
[22:25] <IT_Sean> soonish
[22:26] <IT_Sean> jeeez... where did the day go!? It's nearly 4.30
[22:26] <emusan> can the cool irc people know ahead of time?
[22:26] <IT_Sean> emusan: nope.
[22:26] <emusan> awww
[22:26] <emusan> lol
[22:26] <IT_Sean> i know. :(
[22:26] <haltdef> this channel isn't official is it
[22:26] <IT_Sean> nope.
[22:26] <IT_Sean> it isn't
[22:26] <IT_Sean> see the topic
[22:26] <emusan> currently "unofficial"
[22:26] <haltdef> I should lrn2read
[22:27] <IT_Sean> yup
[22:27] <cousteau> involving "microsoft created windows phone 7 and put it in some phones in order to attract nokia to them and drag them to oblivion when WP7 gets totally forgotten and unsupported, as a punishment for leaving symbian and going to Gnu/Linux, which could have been harmful for MS"
[22:27] <IT_Sean> probably a good idea
[22:27] <haltdef> I wonder when nokia would be able to drop wp7
[22:27] <mrdragons> Sounds plausable
[22:28] <emusan> I still haven't seen a WP7 phone...
[22:29] <IT_Sean> Neither have I
[22:29] <IT_Sean> i haven't really been looking, though.
[22:29] <haltdef> I couldn't believe my eyes when I read it wouldn't support multitask or copy/paste
[22:29] <emusan> same...
[22:29] <haltdef> I was using windows mobile 6.5 at the time :P
[22:29] <cousteau> a good theory, together with "Windows 7 (or a similar one) was ready in 2007, but it was a bit resource-consuming, so they released windows vista first, a resource hog, to make everybody buy better computers, and then release win 7 and say 'Look how good guys we are! We make software that uses little resources so you can use them on old/limited computers'"
[22:30] <cousteau> well, after these 2 conspiranoic theories, I'm leaving for dinner. Bye.
[22:31] <haltdef> :o
[22:31] <mrdragons> Laters
[22:31] <cousteau> o/
[22:31] * cousteau (~cousteau@80.174.59.221.dyn.user.ono.com) Quit (Quit: The cmake is a lie!)
[22:31] <mrdragons> 2nd one is a bit more rediculous
[22:31] <haltdef> I had vista running happily on a t2300 with a gig of ram
[22:32] <emusan> I've never touched vista...
[22:32] <traeak> emusan: be happy you didnt'...permission management was super super irritating
[22:32] <haltdef> you can disable that
[22:32] <traeak> exactly
[22:32] <haltdef> it's the same in win7 too
[22:32] <traeak> it was just painful figuring out that it must be disabled
[22:32] <emusan> yeah, I use win7
[22:32] <traeak> vista was a bit worse
[22:33] <emusan> win7's isn't so bad...
[22:33] <haltdef> I think it made you reboot to disable it in vista, just a logoff in win7
[22:33] <traeak> if you can stomach window's limitations
[22:33] * DoctorD (~DoctorD@79.114.151.81) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:33] <duckinator> personally, i find using win7 infuriating, but less so than vista
[22:33] <emusan> well yeah...
[22:33] <traeak> haltdef: it's not in my interest to become a windows expert so stuff like that is a pita
[22:33] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:34] * duckinator is currently using ArchLinux on everything he owns, simply because he can't find anything he prefers to it that is easy to set up
[22:34] <traeak> duckinator: i pretty much ended up there myself
[22:34] <emusan> <3 arch
[22:34] <haltdef> I only learned about arch a few days ago
[22:35] <traeak> duckinator: the big problem is that using ArchLinux for commercial builds is a nono
[22:35] <traeak> in fact doing commerical softwrae builds in linux is a PITA honestly
[22:35] <traeak> i haven't figure out yet which old distro is best suited for a build VM
[22:35] <traeak> and i hurt myself worse by incorporating c++11 stuff
[22:35] <duckinator> traeak: i'm going to try it, with 3 or more products, in the next couple months. will prove exciting :P
[22:36] <traeak> GLIBC errors are the PITA
[22:36] <duckinator> or wait, what exactly do you mean by commercial builds?
[22:36] * duckinator thinks he misunderstood
[22:36] * the20yrlaptop (~Brandon@cpe-65-185-57-243.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:37] <traeak> duckinator: commercial software builds
[22:37] <traeak> -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE helps some...but not enough apparently
[22:39] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:40] <duckinator> ah yea i misunderstood :P don't plan on ever having to deal with commercial software builds, personally
[22:40] * the20yrlaptop (~Brandon@cpe-65-185-57-243.columbus.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:41] <Shift_> duckinator, you don't think gentoo is easier to set up?
[22:42] <duckinator> Shift_: i've found them about the same, but i prefer archlinux because i'm too impatient for lots of compiles :P (i recall something about gentoo having binary packages of some sort, but i already had 2 years experience with arch at the time, so didn't look into it any)
[22:42] <Shift_> fair enough
[22:43] <Shift_> I just found arch to be too fiddly with configuration
[22:43] <duckinator> huh. when did you use it? their config is a lot more condensed recently
[22:43] <Shift_> probably about a year ago
[22:43] <emusan> I found arch to be pretty easy to config...
[22:43] <Shift_> easy, but time consuming
[22:43] <emusan> and I suck at that kind of stuff lol
[22:43] <emusan> or I did...
[22:44] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:44] <duckinator> Shift_: yea, it's a bit more condensed now. i usually only have to touch rc.conf for a working system now, as opposed to 2 or 3 files before :)
[22:45] * IT_Sean gets ready to go home for the day
[22:46] <Shift_> might have to revisit it then
[22:47] <duckinator> you should, it's quite impressive compared to a year or two ago (when i chose it about 4 years ago, it was only because it was quicker to get installed on my slow-as-crap Pentium 4 than Gentoo, which i actually preferred over arch at the time)
[22:49] <Shift_> yup, I've got a 300mhz laptop which I used arch on
[22:50] <Shift_> gentoo didn't work too well even with distcc and everything else
[22:50] <Shift_> But when I started to install it on the main desktop it seemed more hassle that it was worth
[22:50] <traeak> duckinator: i ran gentoo for a *long* time. The distro is over engineered it's a big failing
[22:51] <traeak> they have a couple of orders of magnitude too many use flags
[22:51] <Shift_> you only need to touch the use flags once in a while
[22:51] <traeak> and they seriously break stuff too often...ie: unbootable system
[22:51] <Shift_> well you wouldn't run it on a production server
[22:52] <Shift_> but for the most part it does exactly what you want it to... I hate big distros for installing so much crap I don't need.
[22:52] <traeak> Shift_: actually it's not bad on a production server: you don't set any use flags in that case
[22:52] <traeak> i think arch is a decent middle ground
[22:53] <mrdragons> Agreed, and you can still compile everything if you have the urge
[22:53] <Shift_> decent middle ground? you just called it 'big failing'
[22:53] <traeak> i'm not a big fan of kernel management on arch though
[22:53] <duckinator> traeak: what about it, specifically?
[22:53] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[22:53] <traeak> duckinator: setting up and managing special kernel builds is all i mean
[22:53] <traeak> but i don't have any custom kernel needs, not for a long time so its not an issue
[22:54] <duckinator> ah, yea, custom kernels are a bit of a hassle on arch...but i've never needed it except for playing around so that doesn't phase me :P
[22:54] <mrdragons> I like the kernel management, after learning my way around ABS
[22:54] <mrdragons> Manually doing everything can be a pain
[22:54] <traeak> my biggest beef has to do with the attitude of some of the distro maintainers
[22:55] <traeak> they've made a couple of bad decisions IMHO in some cases
[22:55] <traeak> not with arch itself but the attitude of some fo the maintainers
[22:55] <traeak> they way aroudn that was through the ABS system yeah
[22:55] <traeak> but never had those problems with gentoo
[22:55] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
[22:57] <traeak> yuk i really hate pixel buffer operation code, its' just irritating
[22:57] <Shift_> finally got the hang of oolite
[22:57] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:58] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: bbs)
[22:59] * Jarii (~Jarii@host96-165-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: I forgot how to forget)
[22:59] <tntexplosivesltd> mmmmmmmm abs
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[23:23] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne| well we're running out of corners and the stoopid people corner is mine! >=/
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[23:46] <_inc> Trollbot
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These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.