#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-01-27

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:04] * Space_Man (~space_man@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:04] * robde (~robde@p57902A0D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:05] * robde (~robde@p57902A0D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:05] * LiENUS (~yes@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:09] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-168-97-184.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:10] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-168-97-184.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:10] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] * Jaseman (5f93f1d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[0:15] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-0-231-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:16] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:19] <LiENUS> 20$ says the raspi manufacturer took the money and ran
[0:19] <Thorn_> and thats the end of the pi
[0:20] <Crazytails> what?
[0:20] <Thorn_> its over.
[0:20] <feep> I hope they refund the preorders.
[0:20] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev)
[0:20] <Crazytails> feep: There were no preordered
[0:20] <Thorn_> ... right over your head
[0:21] <SpeedEvil> Crazytails: Well - ebay
[0:21] <Hideki> FUD
[0:21] <Hideki> and so it begins
[0:21] <Aquilus_> Crazytails: WHOOOOOOOOOSH
[0:21] <Crazytails> SpeedEvil: Those were beta boards....
[0:21] <SpeedEvil> I know
[0:21] <feep> Crazytails: we are not being serious.
[0:21] <LiENUS> maybe upton took all of our money for our preorders and ran
[0:21] <Crazytails> feep: Oh, koay.
[0:26] * cornet finds a parrot for Crazytails
[0:26] <cornet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/186027/boom/imgs/X6hYvzTM.gif # there we go
[0:27] <Crazytails> cornet: what's that parrot for?
[0:27] <noname^^> haha
[0:27] <noname^^> woosh :x
[0:27] <noname^^> +h
[0:29] <cornet> :D
[0:32] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:37] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * robde (~robde@p57902A0D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:43] <EiNSTeiN_> whats up with all the fud I don't have the backlog
[0:47] <Thorn_> raspberry pi is cancelled due to factory problems
[0:48] <Thorn_> on hold for atleast 3 months
[0:48] <Thorn_> (cancelled as in the current batch)
[0:49] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:50] <ShiftPlusOne> and you know it's true, because Thorn_ wouldn't lie.
[0:51] * Space_Man (~space_man@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:51] <Aquilus_> I can confirm that this information is indeed correct.
[0:51] <ShiftPlusOne> which makes it twice as true
[0:52] <tntexplosivesltd> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
[0:52] <EiNSTeiN_> linkage?
[0:52] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[0:53] <Thorn_> it's on the private section of the forum
[0:53] <Thorn_> if you're a trustee you'll see it
[0:54] <EiNSTeiN_> insert <seems legit> meme here
[0:59] <tntexplosivesltd> so does SDL support OpenGL ES?
[1:00] <tntexplosivesltd> or does it not even use OpenGL?
[1:00] <qptain_Nemo> how sad
[1:00] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:00] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[1:01] <chris_99> haha sure Thorn_
[1:01] <Thorn_> SDL doesn't use OpenGL, but there's an SDL_OpenGL layer which will handle your opengl context for you
[1:01] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:01] <tntexplosivesltd> I see
[1:01] * feep (~feep@p5B2B2931.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[1:02] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] <qptain_Nemo> how does one setup a VM for developing for rapsberry pi? what is needed?
[1:04] * feep (~feep@p5B2B32A5.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] <tntexplosivesltd> aww man, SFML 2 is still under dev
[1:04] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:06] <ShiftPlusOne> tntexplosivesltd, yes, but you need SDL 1.3
[1:06] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:08] <ShiftPlusOne> qptain_Nemo, depends. There's a ready VM including everything you'll need from ukscone. Or if you just want to get a kernel and qemu going, I have some tutorials for that.
[1:08] <qptain_Nemo> woud you kindly link me to the ready vm?
[1:09] <ShiftPlusOne> I recommend the full VM.
[1:09] <qptain_Nemo> yes, it sounds like the reasonable start
[1:09] <ShiftPlusOne> anyone have the link handy?
[1:09] <ShiftPlusOne> hang on, it's on TPB somewhere
[1:10] <ShiftPlusOne> http://russelldavis.org/2012/01/20/new-raspberry-pi-development-vm-v0-2/
[1:10] <AnotherBot> New Raspberry Pi development vm version 0.2 Executing Gummiworms
[1:10] <qptain_Nemo> many thanks :)
[1:10] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:11] <ShiftPlusOne> have fun
[1:21] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:21] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[1:23] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[1:23] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:25] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-187-159.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:26] * Shift_ (~Shift@124-168-97-184.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:26] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-168-97-184.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:26] <vgrade> ukscone, what was the request for on twitter about?
[1:26] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:27] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit ()
[1:28] <koaschten> now i know why i went into CS and not aircraft engineering... http://r721.livejournal.com/10526.html
[1:28] * SystemNull (~SystemNul@CPE002401e7992c-CM000f212fe335.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:28] <AnotherBot> r721: Engineer sucked into engine aftermath
[1:28] <Shift_> that sucks
[1:28] <Shift_> (pun intended)
[1:28] <mrdragons> :P
[1:28] <koaschten> Don't blow the facts..
[1:29] <Shift_> ew... jesus... that's.... meaty.
[1:29] <koaschten> ps: only scroll down if you can stand the gore :/
[1:30] <koaschten> Hello, this is your captain, If you are sitting in the back half of the airplane and are looking out of the right window now, you can seee......
[1:30] * Shift_ checks the date
[1:30] <Shift_> yup... too soon.
[1:31] <Shift_> 'tis a life lost after all.
[1:32] <ukscone> vgrade: i managed to find a tarball of sbrsh ( the darcs repository is fubar) and built it but need to check it at least runs on a alpha or beta board and i need an ldd output of it as ldd doesn't work well (at all) inside sb2
[1:33] <ukscone> if sbrshd runs on the pi then i'll do one more update of the vm once we have an officla rootfs
[1:33] <ukscone> with both qemu and sbrsh enabled as targets
[1:34] <Kostic> "Are we there yet?"
[1:36] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:36] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[1:38] * SystemNull (~SystemNul@CPE002401e7992c-CM000f212fe335.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: SystemNull)
[1:38] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:40] <piofcube> Wheee... WinNT4 installed on a CF card in a VIA C3... Fun LOL
[1:40] <tntexplosivesltd> jesus
[1:40] <tntexplosivesltd> that dpesn't even look like a person at all
[1:41] <piofcube> Runs faster than XP ;-)
[1:41] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net148-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[1:41] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Done Sir Done!)
[1:46] * zgreg (greg@ Quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
[1:46] * zgreg (greg@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] <MystX> Can you use a nvidia card for physx while using a ati card for graphics?
[1:57] <zgreg> I think normally you can't
[1:57] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[1:57] <traeak> sounds like a job for google
[1:58] <zgreg> nvidia's drivers disable physx acceleration if a non-nvidia card is installed in the system
[1:58] <zgreg> but there are workarounds
[1:58] <zgreg> and yeah, google!
[1:58] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:58] <MystX> Fucking nvidia
[1:59] <tntexplosivesltd> get an nVidia card and join the master race
[1:59] <MystX> YET, shit still installs physx. Even if you dont have a single nvidia card
[1:59] <tntexplosivesltd> of don't, it's up to you
[1:59] <tntexplosivesltd> * or
[1:59] <MystX> HAHA. Good joke.
[1:59] <Thorn_> physx != physx gpu acceleration, so yes stuff still installs it
[1:59] <MystX> But the games run if you uninstall it 0.o
[2:01] <tntexplosivesltd> physx is software
[2:01] <tntexplosivesltd> nVidia cards can hardware accelerate it
[2:01] <tntexplosivesltd> (ones that have physx)
[2:02] * UnaClocker (~unaclocke@24-113-85-150.wavecable.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:02] <zgreg> that "have physx"?
[2:02] <tntexplosivesltd> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mafia_physx.jpg
[2:02] <AnotherBot> File:Mafia physx.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[2:02] <Thorn_> zgreg: any card's after and including the 8xxx series when nvidia but ageia (iirc)
[2:02] <tntexplosivesltd> zgreg: as in nVidia cards that support it
[2:03] <Thorn_> or maybe not including the 8xxx series, can't remember clearly
[2:03] <Thorn_> s/but/bought btw
[2:03] <zgreg> Thorn_: right, but "that have physx" sounds like it's a special hardwar feature. which physx isn't.
[2:03] * LiENUS (~yes@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:04] <tntexplosivesltd> zgreg: lol
[2:09] * LiENUS (~yes@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:14] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:15] * Shift_ (~Shift@124-168-97-184.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[2:26] * robde (~robde@p57902A0D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Gone.)
[2:34] <mrdragons> Is it out yet?
[2:34] * PiBot slaps mrdragons across the face with a cast iron pan.
[2:38] <zgreg> haltdef: re: xbmc on raspi: you mention progressive h.264. and right, interlacing will be a challenge, probably sensible deinterlacing is not possible.
[2:41] <zgreg> that is, given that the decoder can decode interlaced h.264, and do so quickly enough
[3:00] <koaschten> oh my... John Mizuno, a Democratic state legislator in Hawaii and a sponsor of the bill, wants to require virtual dossiers to be compiled on state residents: two years' worth of their Internet browsing.
[3:01] <mrdragons> How the hell do they plan to store and collect that information effectively? XD
[3:02] <koaschten> I have no clue
[3:03] <koaschten> ask the representatives of the state of hawaii ;)
[3:03] <koaschten> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/01/26/1411243/hawaiian-bill-would-force-isps-to-track-users-web-histories-for-2-years
[3:03] <AnotherBot> Hawaiian Bill Would Force ISPs to Track Users' Web Histories For 2 Years - Slashdot
[3:04] <piofcube> It would save all those hackers from having to try to infect users PCs... Just MySQL inject the ISP's database O_o
[3:06] <Dagger2> it's not particularly difficult to do
[3:06] <piofcube> Some of the representatives still think it will be like logging fax transmissions...
[3:07] <Dagger2> a transparent proxy would do the trick, or DPI of packets for HTTP requests. then you just have to store everything
[3:07] <SpeedEvil> Politicians are just a series of tubes.
[3:07] <piofcube> HTTPS everywhere.. They'd still know the sites you went to... just not what you did.
[3:08] <Dagger2> the only potential issues are speed and storage space, but both of those are increasing far faster than our population is, so even if you can't do it at big enough scale *now* it'll only be a few years before you can
[3:08] <piofcube> Then of course... They'd be insisting on man-in-the-middle after a while.
[3:08] <mrdragons> I said effectively; as in, not just gather 1 "incriminating" thing for every 100,000 or so, not including encrypted pages
[3:09] <MystX> ^^on that above link. My own web history for 2 years would be huge
[3:09] <MystX> Also derp. Hire VPN, gaping loophole to the max
[3:09] <piofcube> Funny thing is... if SOPA had been passed, would the ISPs be in breach of it as they could not remove the content.. j/k
[3:10] <MystX> Funny thing is... The govts. of the world dont seem to understand that we can just work around whatever they do
[3:10] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:10] <Dagger2> mrdragons: who cares about the 100000 other page loads? so long as you can dig up enough dirt on someone to convict them, who cares how much extra data you have?
[3:11] <koaschten> people would just broadly adopt vpn or onion
[3:11] <mrdragons> True
[3:11] <koaschten> aka T.O.R
[3:11] <mrdragons> But anyone doing anything "bad" would go through a bit of effort to make it harder to see
[3:11] <koaschten> well anyone doing anything bad already jumps through the hoops to hide it
[3:11] <koaschten> ...
[3:11] <piofcube> I wonder who paid John Mizuno (allegedly) to push this bill? The Media industry or Hard Drive manufacturers LOL
[3:12] <mrdragons> Heh
[3:12] <koaschten> both :D
[3:12] <Dagger2> VPNs are only a partial solution... you need somewhere to terminate the VPN at the other end, and we'll run out of places eventually
[3:12] <Dagger2> also it's easy to set up a honeypot VPN provider
[3:13] <mrdragons> Yeah, but how many VPNs are there out there? It's impossible to take them all down
[3:13] <piofcube> Yeah look at all those bad netflix proxies :-S
[3:13] <ShiftPlusOne> Hey, a while ago someone mentioned a good wiki platform. Anyone know what that was by any chance?... I think it started with a d maybe.
[3:13] <Dagger2> tor has similar issues with running out of places for people to host tor endpoints
[3:13] <LiENUS> mrdragons, block everything and require tunneling through proxies
[3:13] <LiENUS> voila vpns blocked
[3:13] <piofcube> ShiftPlusOne: If no-one remembers, I'll check my history as I looked at it when it was mentioned.
[3:14] <mrdragons> It's not that simple
[3:14] <ShiftPlusOne> piofcube, ah, thanks
[3:15] <piofcube> ShiftPlusOne: Was it Springnote?
[3:15] <ShiftPlusOne> nope, it was one you could install on your own server
[3:15] <ShiftPlusOne> I was the one who mentioned springnote
[3:19] * LiENUS (~yes@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:20] <ShiftPlusOne> dokuwiki
[3:20] <ShiftPlusOne> there we go
[3:20] <tntexplosivesltd> =D
[3:21] <piofcube> LOL.. I had just found it but you beat me to it
[3:21] <tntexplosivesltd> I use that, it's mean
[3:22] <ShiftPlusOne> tntexplosivesltd, jerk >=/ waited for us to go rummage through our histories and logs......
[3:23] <ShiftPlusOne> (but it's ok, I still love you)
[3:24] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[3:24] <tntexplosivesltd> http://wiki.entropy.net.nz/doku.php
[3:24] <AnotherBot> 406 Not Acceptable
[3:24] <tntexplosivesltd> =|
[3:24] <tntexplosivesltd> why does everything think it's not acceptable?
[3:25] <ShiftPlusOne> tntexplosivesltd, is it easy to export articles to say... wordpress?
[3:25] <tntexplosivesltd> why... ._.
[3:26] <ShiftPlusOne> I am thinking of making a wordpress or dokuwiki site to move from springnote to my own server and domain
[3:26] <SpeedEvil> tiddlywiki.com can be handy
[3:27] <SpeedEvil> an entirely javascript in-browser wiki
[3:27] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[3:27] <tntexplosivesltd> that's terrible
[3:27] <ShiftPlusOne> what's terrible?
[3:27] <tntexplosivesltd> JS wiki
[3:27] <tntexplosivesltd> that's just... why?
[3:27] <SpeedEvil> For a few tens of pages, it's fine.
[3:27] <SpeedEvil> You don't want to use it for enormous volumes of content.
[3:28] <ShiftPlusOne> I normally don't touch java/javascript with a 10 foot pole.
[3:28] <tntexplosivesltd> nope
[3:28] <Thorn_> java is bearable
[3:28] <tntexplosivesltd> why rely on the client for everything
[3:28] <Thorn_> javascript not
[3:28] <SpeedEvil> To avoid the need for a server.
[3:28] <tntexplosivesltd> but you stull ned a server
[3:28] <tntexplosivesltd> * still
[3:29] <tntexplosivesltd> for the actual content
[3:37] * EastLight (t@5ac4afb8.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[3:50] <MystX> !nq <+tntexplosivesltd> calm down everyone. Nothing to sed here <+MystX> Stop awking
[3:50] <AnotherBot> Quote was saved successfully
[3:51] <mrdragons> !
[3:51] <MystX> !
[3:51] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:b9a9:44f0:acf7:b240) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:52] <mrdragons> !rq
[3:52] <AnotherBot> <~MystX> !tweet This is the first message sent from #chaostheory on Rizon.net! <ChaosBot> Sending tweet failed. Check logs for details.
[3:53] <tntexplosivesltd> >.>
[3:56] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:57] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:57] * _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[3:57] <MystX> Shit
[3:57] <MystX> Thats a bug
[3:57] <MystX> No cross-channel quotes allowed >=|
[3:58] <MystX> Excuse me..
[3:59] <MystX> !unload quote
[3:59] <AnotherBot> Module 'quote' unloaded.
[3:59] <MystX> !load quote
[3:59] <AnotherBot> Loaded module 'quote'.
[3:59] <MystX> !rq
[3:59] <AnotherBot> < SpeedEvil> Loaded module 'skynet'
[3:59] <MystX> Good
[3:59] <mrdragons> !rq
[3:59] <AnotherBot> < SpeedEvil> Loaded module 'skynet'
[4:00] <MystX> Man that bot is fast when its running close to the US
[4:00] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[4:00] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:01] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:03] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:03] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:06] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[4:06] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:09] <MystX> Lets all quit and then join
[4:09] <ShiftPlusOne> in my defence, my net is being a jerk
[4:09] <MystX> lol
[4:13] * _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:17] * tntexplosivesltd (~tntexplos@segfault.net.nz) has left #raspberrypi
[4:17] * tntexplosivesltd (~tntexplos@segfault.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:17] <tntexplosivesltd> like that?
[4:17] <tntexplosivesltd> /cycle XD
[4:17] <ShiftPlusOne> should be fine now... nazied up my brother's internet access.
[4:20] * engla (~engla@wikipedia/Sverdrup) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[4:21] * moog (~moog@240.81-166-243.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:24] <mrdragons> !rq
[4:24] <AnotherBot> < SpeedEvil> Loaded module 'skynet'
[4:25] * _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[4:31] * MystX (~MystX@ec2-107-21-100-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[4:36] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@bl15-108-23.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:49] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:49] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:51] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[5:43] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5646.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[6:00] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) Quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
[6:10] * uriah (~uriah@unaffiliated/uriahheep) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:45] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:50] * EiN_ (~einstein@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:13] <jardiamj> wow!, first time I see no one talking in this channel...
[7:13] <jardiamj> is it out yet?
[7:13] * PiBot slaps jardiamj across the face with a cast iron pan.
[7:13] <jardiamj> ohhh.... at least the bots respond
[7:13] <jardiamj> !w
[7:13] <PiBot> jardiamj: in Woodburn, OR on Fri Jan 27 04:53:00 2012. Temp 36??F. Condition: Cloudy, Humidity: 82%, Later 43??F - 23??F. Condition: Fog.
[7:17] * uriah (~uriah@unaffiliated/uriahheep) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:33] * neko-nyan (~neko@rrcs-67-79-154-194.se.biz.rr.com) Quit (Quit: nyan)
[7:34] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:35] <MystX> you may stop crying.
[7:35] <MystX> i am back
[7:47] <jardiamj> ohhh, somebody is here!!
[7:48] <jardiamj> what's up MystX?
[7:50] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:56] <MystX> nm
[7:56] <MystX> playing fable 2 =P
[7:56] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:58] <jardiamj> mmm...
[7:58] <jardiamj> this channel is usually very active, but now.. I guess everybody is sleeping..
[8:05] <MystX> yeah
[8:05] <koaschten> http://www.techpowerup.com/159473/$25-Raspberry-Pi-Hobby-Computer-Doubles-iPhone-4S-GPU-Performance-And-Beats-Tegra-2.html
[8:05] <AnotherBot> $25 Raspberry Pi Hobby Computer Doubles iPhone 4S GPU Performance And Beats Tegra 2 | techPowerUp
[8:09] <jardiamj> wow...
[8:09] <paul-> is it released yet
[8:09] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:10] * EiN_ (~einstein@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[8:13] <MystX> derp
[8:23] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:43] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[8:55] * genbattle (~quassel@122-57-38-161.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:13] <Mowee> Morning peepz
[9:15] <MystX> Evening
[9:19] <tntexplosivesltd> hi all
[9:20] <MystX> tntexplosivesltd: adding the click to show pic thing in netframe
[9:21] <tntexplosivesltd> awesowe
[9:22] <tntexplosivesltd> with an m in there
[9:22] * Hesmon_ (~fp@p5DD337CD.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:26] <MystX> almost don
[9:26] <MystX> e
[9:27] <MystX> there
[9:29] * Hesmon (~fp@p4FDB658A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:31] <MystX> have to click twice though =\
[9:33] <ahven> our politicians are comedians
[9:33] <MystX> Yup
[9:33] <ahven> one deleted some posts about ACTA on FB, and the explanation?
[9:33] <ahven> "I was running out of free space"
[9:34] <Stskeeps> 'have to keep space for all my illegally downloaded movies'
[9:34] <ahven> so there, a worlds first - facebook wall full :)
[9:34] <MystX> =|
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[9:46] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p2-163.molalla.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[9:51] <MystX> tntexplosivesltd: done
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[10:04] * Guest4857 (yang@jazz.linuxshell.org) Quit (Changing host)
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[10:04] * mjorgensen (quassel@nat/nokia/x-ionuvqmgtndgumui) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:05] * Guest4857 is now known as yang
[10:06] * [Hideki] (~hideki@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust489.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:15] * genbattle (~quassel@122-57-38-161.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:21] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net107-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] <bolosaur> Does the raspberrypi have built-in RAM/a processor?
[10:28] <bolosaur> I'm not sure I fully grasp what it is.
[10:28] <Aquilus_> Yes.
[10:29] <bolosaur> Does it function exactly like a computer, sans the peripherals?
[10:29] <Aquilus_> It's an ARM SoC with 128/256 MB RAM.
[10:29] <Aquilus_> Basically, yes.
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> yes, except it uses an ARM CPU, instead of one that's Intel(-compatible)
[10:29] <bolosaur> Ok, because I have an idea that I'd like to run by you guys.
[10:30] <bolosaur> What I'd like to do is get a physical box and install a tiny HDMI monitor into it, and put an external USB HDD, a 3G USB modem as well as a HDMI video switch inside it
[10:30] <bolosaur> and leave an open USB port as well for power
[10:31] <bolosaur> The only interface into the box would be the HDMI display, the USB port (for power) and an open HDMI port (connected ot the switch which also outputs video to the tiny HDMI monitor)
[10:31] <bolosaur> the idea is that I want to use it to tether internet as well as output video to either a HDMI TV or the tiny built-in HDMI monitor depending on the setting of the switch
[10:31] <bolosaur> Would this be possible?
[10:31] <bolosaur> I'm no good at electronics so I don't know if my idea is unrealistic.
[10:32] <Aquilus_> Well, you c ould connect an external HDD and a HDMI screen, but those will likely need external power.
[10:34] <Aquilus_> Also, I can't really think of a use for something like that :p
[10:34] <haltdef> possible but you'd probably be better off getting a low end android phone/tablet
[10:34] <bolosaur> Aquilus_: You serious? :P
[10:34] <haltdef> I know my ??100 ZTE blade uses the exact same cpu as the raspi, weaker gpu but more ram
[10:34] <bolosaur> How about 1) portable media center 2) portable internet source 3) remote desktop
[10:34] <bolosaur> :)
[10:35] <Aquilus_> It would be rather large and clunky though.
[10:35] <haltdef> delicate too
[10:35] <Aquilus_> So I'd definitely drop the HDD at least.
[10:35] <bolosaur> How so? An external HDD is - in my view - quite small.
[10:35] <bolosaur> I mean, it'd be no bigger than a happy meal box.
[10:35] * Davespice wakes up <stretch>
[10:35] <bolosaur> Probably smaller.
[10:35] <MartijnVdS> bolosaur: sure, but it eats power like mad :)
[10:35] <Davespice> morning
[10:35] <bolosaur> MartijnVdS: What does?
[10:35] <Aquilus_> You'd end up needing 3 socket plugs for the thing :p
[10:35] <bolosaur> The HDD?
[10:35] <MartijnVdS> bolosaur: the problem is going to be powering everything (screen, hdd)
[10:35] <bolosaur> hmm
[10:36] <Aquilus_> Which would be kind of awkward.
[10:36] <bolosaur> Do they really eat that much power? :-(
[10:36] <bolosaur> Darn
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> bolosaur: compared to the Raspberry Pi, they do.
[10:36] <Aquilus_> Yeah.
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> Spinning rust ;)
[10:36] <bolosaur> hm
[10:36] <Tobias|> An SSD uses less power
[10:36] <bolosaur> What about only plugging a 3G modem into it and using a cloud HDD then?
[10:36] <Tobias|> Though I don't know why you'd need 3 socket plugs
[10:39] <Aquilus_> Tobias|: One for the pi, one for the HDD, one for the screen?
[10:40] <Aquilus_> bolosaur: That's a lot more reasonable.
[10:40] <Aquilus_> With a small screen, streaming is sufficient anyway.
[10:40] <bolosaur> Maybe I should just get a nettop instead and attach a tiny HDMI screen to its side.
[10:40] <Tobias|> If you trust your power brick enough, Aquilus_, you can get HDDs that run on 5v
[10:43] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[11:34] * Jaseman (ca1400a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[11:35] <Jaseman> Hi everybody
[11:35] <Jaseman> you know this kernel they are putting together that's mentioned on the website.....
[11:35] <Jaseman> which linux distro is it aimed at?
[11:36] <haltdef> er, they all use the linux kernel, can use it on any
[11:37] <Jaseman> i thought the kernels were designed for specific versions
[11:37] <haltdef> you can pretty easily drop your own in
[11:38] <Jaseman> i see
[11:38] <Jaseman> well i dont want to touch the kernel...
[11:38] <Jaseman> ill use the one provided
[11:39] <Jaseman> leave that one to the boffins
[11:39] <haltdef> you'll probably need one of the sd images then, rather than installing your own from scratch
[11:39] <haltdef> for now anyway, it's possible the raspi code will end up in the official kernel sources at some point
[11:39] <Jaseman> yeah
[11:39] <Jaseman> hopefully i can download an image
[11:40] <Jaseman> but presumably the image will be built for a specific sd card size
[11:40] <Jaseman> not that its a problem... i can partition the remaining space if it's smaller
[11:41] <haltdef> smallest possible I'd imagine
[11:41] <haltdef> I think there's a windows utility being worked on to image and resize for you
[11:41] <Jaseman> great stuff
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[11:47] <Lerc> There have been people who have turned their android devices into Debian by replacing pretty much everything except for the kernel.
[11:48] <Jaseman> ive never used an android device
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> Suffice to say. It's not very debian-like.
[11:50] <haltdef> I thought about doing that with an n900
[11:50] <haltdef> then I remembered the stock OS is slightly debian :P
[11:51] <Lerc> I'm going to do that to my Android tablet when I buy an ICS replacement.
[11:51] <haltdef> have you got any links about that, Lerc?
[11:51] <haltdef> interested to see how usable it is
[11:53] <Lerc> http://evilzone.org/android/debian-on-android/
[11:53] <AnotherBot> Debian on Android
[11:54] <Jaseman> and would you run an x window under that?
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[11:59] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[12:06] <rm> Lerc, with a VNC client for the actual gui?
[12:07] <rm> skimmed ...yep
[12:07] * robde (~robde@p57903F25.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:07] <rm> enjoy your Android huge mouse and right click not working or working as Esc
[12:07] <rm> and general slowness
[12:07] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:08] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:08] * engla (~engla@wikipedia/Sverdrup) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> rm: I'm intrigued as to how you normally right-click on a touchscreen.
[12:09] <rm> irrelevant
[12:09] <rm> connect a proper mouse to any Android device
[12:09] <rm> it can't work
[12:09] <rm> erm
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Well - given that you brought it up.
[12:09] <rm> it can't right-click *
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:10] <rm> so you can run a VNC or RDP client from your tablet with mouse attached
[12:10] <rm> but right click will not work
[12:10] <rm> because as you noted a touchscreen device doesn't really have a concept of it
[12:13] <MartijnVdS> rm: so vnc to a mac would work fine then
[12:13] <Jaseman> some touchpads can do right click by using 3 fingers at the same time
[12:13] <MartijnVdS> rm: they don't have the concept of right-click either
[12:14] <Jaseman> it might only be synaptics though
[12:14] <rm> Jaseman, what I seen you right click by click and touch, or by triple-clicking
[12:14] <rm> which is silly on actual mouse with proper right button
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[12:15] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[12:40] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[12:41] * xe4l (~xe4l@gateway/tor-sasl/xe4l) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[12:43] * mrdragons (~lucas@gateway/tor-sasl/mrdragons) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[12:43] * xe4l (~xe4l@gateway/tor-sasl/xe4l) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:43] <Jaseman> i wonder if you could run a lilliput 7" usb touchscreen off a pi
[12:44] * mrdragons (~lucas@gateway/tor-sasl/mrdragons) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:44] <RaTTuS|BIG> Jaseman yes
[12:45] <Jaseman> hmm interesting
[12:45] <RaTTuS|BIG> Video inputs HDMI, DVI, VGA, composite
[12:45] <RaTTuS|BIG> they are expensive though ....
[12:46] <Aquilus_> Probably can't power it, though?
[12:46] <Jaseman> ??80
[12:47] <RaTTuS|BIG> umm - depends on which ones ...
[12:49] <Jaseman> can you get linux drivers to support the touchsreen for it?
[12:49] <RaTTuS|BIG> dunno
[12:50] <RaTTuS|BIG> url me the ??80 one
[12:50] <Jaseman> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lilliput-UM70-Display-USB-powered-Monitor/dp/B003DPW5IY/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1327663990&sr=8-10
[12:50] <AnotherBot> Lilliput UM70 7" USB Display USB-powered mini Monitor: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
[12:51] <RaTTuS|BIG> ummm ,,,, ummmm that would be nice if it worked ...
[12:51] <Jaseman> yeah
[12:53] <Jaseman> does lxde have an onscreen keyboard option?
[12:53] <Caver> seems to list drivers for linux http://www.lilliputuk.com/support/drivers/touchkit/
[12:53] <AnotherBot> Lilliput UK TouchKit Access drivers for your Lilliput monitor online
[12:53] <Caver> but no idea if they're intel only
[12:53] <Jaseman> cuz your 2 usb ports would be used up with that baby
[12:53] <Caver> lol ... the click here link isn't actually a link!!
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> It's just 2 ports for power
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> supply 5V@1A
[12:55] <Jaseman> but the video also travels down one of them
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> well - of course
[12:55] <Jaseman> i guess you could power one of them seperately
[12:55] * tlf82 (~TLF@ Quit (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
[12:56] <Caver> or you plug it into a external powered USB hub
[12:56] * Hopsy (~kvirc@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:56] <Jaseman> yeah...
[12:56] <Caver> the hub provides the power and the pi does the data
[12:57] <Jaseman> i wonder if you can run it as your only screen
[12:57] <Jaseman> or it can only be an additional screen
[12:58] <Jaseman> even if it doesnt work with the pi... might be a nice gadget to have anyways
[12:59] <Jaseman> ill ask for one for my birthday
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[13:00] * robde_ (~robde@p579028E4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] * victhor (~victhor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:01] <Caver> sent them a email and ask about the linux driver situation on arm
[13:01] * robde (~robde@p57903F25.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:01] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB3D86.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:03] <Jaseman> the 10 inch version only needs 1 usb port
[13:03] * wcchandler (~william@cpe-069-134-244-245.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> Jaseman: And probably an external PSU
[13:03] <Jaseman> it says it has one....
[13:04] <Jaseman> but its optional
[13:04] <Jaseman> so it can power off the usb
[13:04] <Jaseman> or off mains
[13:04] <Jaseman> more expensive though that one
[13:04] <Jaseman> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003DPOMAS/ref=s9_simh_se_p23_d0_g147_i3?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=auto-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=DE0B97DD1F074450A6BB&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=240112507&pf_rd_i=UM1010-NP%2FT
[13:04] <AnotherBot> Lilliput UM1010T 10" USB Monitor USB-powered mini Touch: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
[13:05] * uen (~uen@p5DCB334F.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:05] <Jaseman> and yuo connect up to 6 of them to the same computer
[13:06] <Jaseman> imagine that
[13:06] <Jaseman> it would be like minority report
[13:07] <Jaseman> drag and drop across 6 monitors - touchscreen style
[13:07] <Caver> LOL ... yes but in miniature
[13:07] * moog (~moog@240.81-166-243.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] <Jaseman> 6 x10 inch monitors wont be small
[13:08] <Jaseman> i think the raspberry would struggle to handle 6 displays though
[13:10] <Jaseman> but then....
[13:10] <Jaseman> you could just have 6 raspberries
[13:11] <Jaseman> with one on each
[13:11] * robde_ (~robde@p579028E4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Bye.)
[13:12] <Jaseman> you might think about purpose built raspberries then....
[13:12] <Jaseman> one for your email client
[13:12] <Jaseman> one for web browser
[13:13] <Jaseman> another for programming
[13:13] <Jaseman> and one for irc chat/skype or IM
[13:14] <Jaseman> plus a multimedia one for watching movies
[13:16] * tlf82 (~TLF@ Quit (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
[13:19] <Tobias|> Why..?
[13:20] <Tobias|> Your operating system has a task scheduler for a reason
[13:21] <Tobias|> And by the time you've got 6 r-pi's, you could've just gotten a second hand desktop and stuck a couple of AMD cards in it for the same price to control those monitors
[13:21] <Tobias|> For a reasonably similar price
[13:21] * Hopsy (~kvirc@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> r-pi as a web browser may dissapoint.
[13:22] <jzu> the multimedia one could be separated - all the others fit in a single Pi
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Expect performance (non-hw-accelerated jobs) similar to a 300MHz PII or similar.
[13:26] <Jaseman> now im thinking....
[13:27] <Jaseman> rack mounted pi's
[13:27] <Jaseman> vertically stacked
[13:28] <Tobias|> Just buy a seamicro box :/
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> A more interesting scenario would be an officil cae with a r-pi and a 2.5" hard disk.
[13:28] <cian1500ww> Does anyone know what the support will be like for MKV files?
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> You mail it to a data centre, and then when it's full, they msail it back
[13:29] <Tobias|> Why would you mail it to a datacentre, SpeedEvil?
[13:29] <Jaseman> because you can!
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> cian1500ww: In general, support for media files depends on the low-level codec being DSP accellerated, and the media player knowing how to hand off the file to the DSP.
[13:29] <Jaseman> this raspberry will self distruct in 3 seconds
[13:30] <RaTTuS|BIG> I've got a 3.5" SATA external HD case which has a 2" HD in and enough room for a RPi
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> cian1500ww: It is not a generic 'will play anything' solution.
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> Tobias|: because your internet sucks
[13:30] <cian1500ww> SpeedEvil: I wasn't expecting it to play everything, I was wondering if there was any official word on it
[13:30] <Tobias|> Amazon already has a service where you can mail them a HDD to upload/download things from S3, SpeedEvil
[13:31] <Jaseman> you would just mail the sd card
[13:31] <Jaseman> and have an empty pi at either end
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> Jaseman: SDs are 64G max
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> it doesn't do SDXC then?
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> "The Secure Digital Extended Capacity (SDXC) format supports cards up to 2 TB (2048 GB), compared to a limit of 32 GB for SDHC cards in the SD 2.0 specification."
[13:32] <Jaseman> well you wouldnt want to put such an expensive sd card in the post
[13:32] <Jaseman> i wouldnt mind posting a ??9.99 16gb one
[13:32] <Tobias|> It'd cost more to post it/have it handled, Jaseman :/
[13:33] <Tobias|> Why would you want to post one anyway?
[13:33] <Jaseman> it would fit in a small envelope
[13:33] <Tobias|> "haha, yeah, I get my kicks by posting SD cards"
[13:33] <WASDx> >niggercocker
[13:33] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-nxtjfwhujuqkumys) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:33] <Jaseman> look i dont have to justify it!
[13:33] <Jaseman> if i want to post an sd card to someone then i will
[13:34] <Jaseman> itll have a christmas card on it
[13:34] <Caver> if you want do do large amounts of data, why not either mount a network file share, or plus a usb sata thing in, and plug a hard disk in
[13:34] <Jaseman> inside an lxde window
[13:34] <Tobias|> Caver, takee your rationality elsewhere
[13:34] <Tobias|> take*
[13:34] <Caver> no
[13:35] <Tobias|> D:
[13:35] <Jaseman> well im going to use microsd
[13:35] <Jaseman> inside an sd adapter
[13:35] <Jaseman> so itll be even smaller
[13:35] <Jaseman> movies should come on micro sd
[13:36] <Jaseman> instead of dvd
[13:36] <haltdef> that'd cost a fortune for HD stuff
[13:36] <Tobias|> ^
[13:36] <haltdef> considering a dual layer blu-ray can hold 50GB
[13:36] <Jaseman> how big is a blue ray movie?
[13:36] <Jaseman> ok it might not be ready for blu ray yet
[13:36] <Jaseman> until flash memory gets cheaper
[13:37] <Jaseman> but that will happen
[13:37] <haltdef> 8GB would be a bit pricey too
[13:37] <Jaseman> no...
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> 8GB (micro)SD costs almost nothing
[13:38] <Jaseman> http://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-SDSDQM-008G-B35-microSDHC-8GB-Card/dp/B001D0ROGO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1327667839&sr=8-3
[13:38] <AnotherBot> SanDisk 8GB microSDHC Memory Card: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
[13:38] <Jaseman> ??5.70
[13:38] <Tobias|> More than a bluray disk
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> see, almost nothing.
[13:39] <Jaseman> but i hate optical discs
[13:40] <Jaseman> micro sd is so much cooler
[13:40] <Jaseman> so once 64gb microsd cards get cheap....
[13:41] <Jaseman> you can send blu ray movies in an envelope to your friend
[13:41] * [TNM]Roban (~jadu@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[13:41] <Tobias|> You can do that already
[13:41] <Tobias|> On a blu-ray disk
[13:41] <Jaseman> you just... dont get it do you
[13:41] <Jaseman> :-)
[13:42] <Tobias|> You're trying to invent reasons for using microsd cards
[13:42] <Jaseman> and?
[13:42] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:42] <haltdef> too damn small
[13:42] <Jaseman> sigh
[13:42] <haltdef> I don't believe phones would be any bigger if we still used the proper sized SDs :P
[13:42] <Jaseman> small is good
[13:43] <Tobias|> Keep telling yourself that
[13:43] <Jaseman> you just get more of them
[13:44] * [TNM]Roban (~jadu@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:46] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:46] * robde (~robde@p579028E4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:47] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:49] * IT_Sean peers in
[13:51] <Jaseman> hello IT sean
[13:51] * MartijnVdS peer-to-peers in
[13:52] <IT_Sean> 'ello Jaseman, MartijnVdS
[13:54] <Jaseman> how's america?
[13:54] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[13:54] * PiBot slaps Thorn_ across the face with a cast iron pan.
[13:54] <IT_Sean> Thorn_: no
[13:54] <IT_Sean> Jaseman: wet and foggy, this morning.
[13:54] <Jaseman> its like that every morning here
[13:55] <Jaseman> i noticed on the wiki that someone was estimaing feb 10th for the release date
[13:56] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:56] <Thorn_> i had my money on november
[13:56] <IT_Sean> Jaseman: where is 'here'?
[13:56] <Jaseman> north wales
[13:57] <RaTTuS|BIG> wales
[13:57] <IT_Sean> ahh
[13:57] <Thorn_> haha englands bitch
[13:57] <IT_Sean> :p
[13:57] <haltdef> pretend country
[13:57] <Jaseman> im practically in england
[13:57] <Jaseman> i can see the border from my window
[13:58] <Jaseman> cheshire is about half a mile away
[13:58] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:59] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@bl15-241-194.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:59] <Caver> not sure it's a country technically
[13:59] <Caver> it's a principality
[14:00] <Jaseman> i hate all things welsh...
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> Caver: then kingdoms wouldn't be countries either..
[14:00] <Jaseman> so no point going on about sheep and leeks and tom jones
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: Doctor Who?
[14:00] <Caver> england is defo a country, so's scotland
[14:00] <Jaseman> i prefer blakes 7
[14:00] <Thorn_> scotland isn't a country
[14:00] <Thorn_> scotland is the country.
[14:01] <haltdef> pretend country too
[14:01] <IT_Sean> heh... sheep. Don't start that again.
[14:01] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@firewall-a.buf.ny.i-evolve.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:01] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@firewall-a.buf.ny.i-evolve.net) Quit (Changing host)
[14:01] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:01] <Jaseman> forget borders
[14:01] * haltdef is in devon
[14:01] <haltdef> not a lot of anything around here
[14:01] <Jaseman> we're all in this together
[14:01] <haltdef> love it :P
[14:01] * Caver waves from Berkshire
[14:01] <Thorn_> we can demolish england any time we want, we just stick around because you wipe our ass for us...
[14:01] <Caver> LOL eew
[14:02] <haltdef> we'll take our telecom companies then :>
[14:02] <Caver> yup
[14:02] <Thorn_> please do
[14:02] <Thorn_> take BT first <.<
[14:02] <haltdef> no
[14:02] <haltdef> we don't want them
[14:02] <Thorn_> you can have BT, virign and sky
[14:02] <Thorn_> we'll keep the decent ones
[14:02] <Jaseman> let be know when the territorial bickering stops
[14:02] <haltdef> sky is a telecom company?
[14:02] <Thorn_> pretty sure it qualifies
[14:03] <Thorn_> it has its own exchanges
[14:03] <Caver> sky own easynet, so kinda
[14:03] <haltdef> no they don't
[14:03] <haltdef> LLU != separate exchange
[14:03] <Caver> thats how they provision adsl2
[14:03] <haltdef> they just have their own kit in the openreach exchange
[14:03] <Thorn_> pretty sure LLU died back in 2007?
[14:03] <haltdef> no
[14:04] <Caver> correct ... and they use easynet as their backbone network
[14:04] <haltdef> be/o2, talktalk, sky all do it
[14:04] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] <haltdef> it was BT wholesale adsl1 vs tiscalu llu here when I moved in, I went with tiscali business :P
[14:04] <haltdef> good call, 21mbps, BT could only have provided 8
[14:04] <Jaseman> lets just cat5 the planet and have done with it
[14:04] <haltdef> and would have cost me a fortune with my usage
[14:04] <Caver> www.samknows.com us great for finding out whats available
[14:04] <Thorn_> ugh tiscali
[14:04] <haltdef> sky and 21cn have showed up now
[14:05] <Thorn_> tiscali was my first experience with broadband, i left pretty quick
[14:05] <haltdef> pipex business at the time, I'm under talktalk business now
[14:05] <Thorn_> they offered 2mbps, never got greater than ISDN speeds, and my gaming pings were twice that of dialup ;\
[14:05] <Thorn_> moved to pipex later, they were great (before tiscali bought them)
[14:05] <haltdef> I download at 2.1MB/s, this was well after tiscali nommed them :P
[14:05] <Caver> ADSL1/2 both suck ... you want Ethernet in the First Mile
[14:06] <haltdef> yes, but I can't have that
[14:06] <Jaseman> bt infinity is coming to my village this year
[14:06] <Caver> :)
[14:06] <Caver> just remember you don't have to buy it from BT
[14:06] <Thorn_> i have a friend on bt infinity
[14:06] <Thorn_> it's infinitely slow too :\
[14:06] <haltdef> torrents?
[14:06] <Jaseman> its probably better than what i have now
[14:07] <Caver> https://spreadsheets0.google.com/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0AquiMM6uTUUzdHl4RGRZcnE1WWw0SVlLcVlzQWZuVFE&output=html for a good comparison of the FTTC ISP's
[14:07] <AnotherBot> FTTC ISP comparison
[14:07] <haltdef> no sign of FTTC here
[14:07] <haltdef> I'm pretty content with 21mbps tbh
[14:07] <haltdef> considering when I moved from the midlands I was sure I'd have to deal with BT adsl1
[14:07] <Jaseman> lets all just meet up on a travel lodge car park and trade micro sd cards
[14:07] <Caver> lol
[14:07] <Jaseman> to hell with the internet!
[14:08] <haltdef> good to know all of my networking kit's ready for 200mbps internet
[14:09] <Jaseman> ive jst remembered i need to take my usb hdd upstairs to copy limitless off graham
[14:09] <haltdef> wifi does ~250Mbps throughput, router routes at around the same speed
[14:10] <Caver> are you using the 5GHz band wifi?
[14:11] <haltdef> yea
[14:11] <Caver> :)
[14:11] <haltdef> 3 stream, all the goodies
[14:11] <haltdef> my laptop has enough antennas for full blown 802.11ac as well
[14:11] <Caver> I have 15 Wifi networks around me, so a clear fast signal is physically impossible on the 2.4GHz band
[14:12] <haltdef> 2.4ghz is ok here, AP can't spread out to 40mhz so the max speed is 9MB/s or so
[14:13] <Caver> best app I got for my phone was a little wifi scanning app
[14:13] <Caver> so handy for working out the least shonky channel
[14:20] <haltdef> shame most laptops come with crappy 1t1r wifi cards
[14:20] <haltdef> 65mbps :|
[14:20] <haltdef> waste of time even being N
[14:21] * SpeedEvil has a 2.5M net connection.
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> Meh
[14:21] <haltdef> megabits? :o
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:22] <haltdef> :|
[14:22] <Crazytails> SpeedEvil: I have a 300Kbit/s connection.
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Crazytails: :)
[14:23] <Crazytails> 3G represent!!
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Crazytails: hope it upgrades sometime soon.
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Under ~750k or so is painful
[14:23] <Crazytails> Nah
[14:23] <Crazytails> I've gotten used to it.
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> well - much under
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> I actually get slightly faster over 3G
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> (~3M)
[14:23] <haltdef> 3g is painful
[14:24] <Crazytails> It seems to be a good day today.
[14:24] <IT_Sean> 3G isn't painful
[14:24] <Crazytails> Today it seems to be going at just over 1Mbit/sec.
[14:25] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:28] * robde (~robde@p579028E4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Bye.)
[14:29] * robde (~krake@p579028E4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:33] * [TNM]Roban (~jadu@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:35] <Aquilus_> 100Mbit here
[14:35] <Aquilus_> It's brilliant :p
[14:36] <haltdef> choke on your megabits
[14:38] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:41] <bolosaur> Would it be possible to somehow get power from a TV into the USB port of the raspberrypi?
[14:42] <MartijnVdS> if your TV has an USB port
[14:42] <bolosaur> I don't think mine does.
[14:42] <bolosaur> Are there any other possible ports that outputs power?
[14:42] <bolosaur> From the TV.
[14:43] <Caver> don't think so ... HDMI it's the device that sends power I think
[14:43] <IT_Sean> Yeah, unless your TV has a USB port, it can't power the Pi
[14:44] <Caver> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/power-over-hdmi-1 :(
[14:44] <AnotherBot> Power over HDMI | General discussion | Forum | Raspberry Pi
[14:44] <IT_Sean> ... now... what is the point of that?
[14:44] <RaTTuS|BIG> ffs
[14:44] * IT_Sean adds AnotherBot to his ignore list
[14:44] <Caver> the bot or me posting that?
[14:44] <IT_Sean> the bot
[14:44] <RaTTuS|BIG> the bot
[14:44] <Caver> nods!
[14:45] <IT_Sean> AnotherBot doesn't actually do anything USEFUL.
[14:45] <RaTTuS|BIG> as if the site hasn't got enough problems with some bot ctrl-f5'ing it all the time
[14:46] <IT_Sean> exactly.
[14:46] <IT_Sean> all AnotherBot does is needlessly f5 the site, and annoy everyone in #raspberrypi
[14:46] <Caver> own up ... who's is it!
[14:46] <IT_Sean> who owns AnotherBot ?
[14:46] <Thorn_> i say we flood it away!
[14:46] <IT_Sean> I say we report it ot Freenode as a spam generator
[14:46] <Thorn_> oh right it's hosted on amazon, maybe bad idea
[14:47] <Caver> ah well
[14:48] <hamitron> just imagine how many more bots will appear, when everyone can host one on their pi ;)
[14:48] <haltdef> none of the bots here are useful
[14:48] * jzu shivers
[14:48] <haltdef> except the one that slaps people who ask when it's out
[14:48] <Caver> I just felt a shift in the force
[14:48] <haltdef> that's necessary tbh
[14:48] <hamitron> is it out yet?
[14:49] * PiBot slaps hamitron across the face with a cast iron pan.
[14:49] <Caver> sooo funny
[14:49] <Caver> I just wet myself laughing
[14:49] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: it's like Ubuntu. Every time you ask it's delayed.
[14:49] <hamitron> but seriously, is there any news?
[14:49] <hamitron> MartijnVdS, haha
[14:49] <IT_Sean> hamitron: when it comes out, you will be notified via the website, and the mailing list.
[14:49] <IT_Sean> if you ask again in here, you aren't going to get one.
[14:49] <hamitron> I haven't signed up on the webby
[14:49] <haltdef> I'm hopeful for something happening next week
[14:50] <RaTTuS|BIG> well do so
[14:50] <IT_Sean> I suggest you do so.
[14:50] <hamitron> *effort*
[14:50] <haltdef> possibly early the week after
[14:50] <IT_Sean> it takes ONE minute
[14:50] <IT_Sean> you just put your dammed email addy in
[14:50] <Thorn_> they come out this afternoon
[14:50] <hamitron> I was just gonna sign up when ordering
[14:50] * IT_Sean adds hamitron to the DO NOT SELL list
[14:50] <haltdef> I've already got an account on the store :P
[14:50] <RaTTuS|BIG> well you may as well come back next month then ;-p
[14:50] <Thorn_> by the time you sign up, all 10000 will be gone
[14:50] <hamitron> IT_Sean, :(
[14:51] <hamitron> I don't mind waiting 3 or 4 months tbh
[14:51] <hamitron> getting pulled towards a DE0 atm
[14:51] <Thorn_> they wont exist in 3 or 4 months
[14:51] <Thorn_> governments around the world intend to shut down the pi due to its price
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> Thorn_: Transparent troll is transparent
[14:52] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[14:52] <hamitron> tbh, I could see charities providing cheap hardware, as a problem for the industry
[14:52] <Thorn_> yup
[14:52] <hamitron> it is gonna cut a lot of sales and profit, so less money to move tech forward
[14:53] <haltdef> the raspi is still sold for a profit
[14:53] <hamitron> and less taxes collected, so government may not be happy ;)
[14:53] <hamitron> well, lower profit
[14:53] <hamitron> ;/
[14:54] <haltdef> there's not really any competition
[14:54] <haltdef> beagle/pandaboard perhaps, subsidised by TI
[14:54] <hamitron> maybe ITX boards
[14:54] <hamitron> I reckon the pi could take some sales of atom based devices away from the TV
[14:54] <jzu> moving tech forward implies new concepts above all
[14:55] <haltdef> depends on what formats the gpu supports
[14:55] <haltdef> h.264 alone is not enough for an htpc
[14:55] <haltdef> impressive for such a cheap device sure, but a real htpc will need to support anything you throw at it
[14:55] <haltdef> interlaced included
[14:56] <hamitron> I was thinking more, as a cheap device to just browse the web
[14:56] * Space_Man (~space_man@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:56] <hamitron> bit of music
[14:57] <haltdef> no flash kinda kills it for me
[14:57] <hamitron> not if flash dies
[14:57] <hamitron> ;)
[14:57] <haltdef> wishful thinking
[14:57] <hamitron> yeh
[14:57] <hamitron> entertain me here? ;/
[14:58] * [Hideki] is now known as Hideki
[14:58] <Thorn_> flash is dead
[14:58] <Thorn_> silverlight is the way forward!
[14:58] <Thorn_> btw, flash should be fine on armv6 ?
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> Thorn_: Transparent troll is transparent
[14:59] <hamitron> :)
[14:59] <haltdef> html5 video is converning me
[14:59] <haltdef> nobody being able to agree on a format
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> haltdef: that's h264 in lots of cases.
[14:59] <haltdef> tell that to google
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> haltdef: yes or webm
[14:59] <hamitron> we can ignore google, they are a small part
[14:59] <hamitron> ;)
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> ???_???
[14:59] <haltdef> mozilla? :P
[15:00] <Thorn_> well, fwiw, my phone is armv6 and runs flash fine upto 360p
[15:00] <hamitron> 360p on a tv :|
[15:00] <haltdef> android?
[15:00] <Thorn_> right
[15:00] <haltdef> I was thinking port it from maemo but that'll be armv7 :<
[15:00] * jzu 's looking at FF9's memory footprint
[15:00] <Caver> yup you just need adobe to write a flash binary for the Pi ...
[15:00] <jzu> won't do
[15:00] <Caver> closest you get opensource wish is gnash I Think
[15:01] <hamitron> jzu, don't look at it in detail, take you forever to get to the end
[15:01] <hamitron> :/
[15:01] <haltdef> is ok, I'll be running my pi headless anyway
[15:01] <haltdef> after initial experimnetation
[15:01] <hamitron> haltdef, same
[15:01] <hamitron> if I get one
[15:01] <hamitron> ;/
[15:01] <haltdef> move from a gentoo VM on the windows server (not a fucking word, fanboys) to the pi for the bnc and bitlbee, possibly ircd too
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> haha gentoo
[15:02] <haltdef> I wub use flags
[15:02] <Thorn_> MartijnVdS: transparent troll is transparent
[15:02] <Caver> *splutters*
[15:02] <haltdef> I'm quite fond of debian too though
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> Thorn_: laughing at someone's choice of distro != trolling ;)\
[15:02] <Thorn_> no, he specifically said not a word, and you trolled
[15:02] <haltdef> my choice of distro is windows for the most part
[15:02] <Caver> LOL
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> Poor haltdef
[15:03] <haltdef> I'm still very glad I can use linux if I have to
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> I'd stick to windows too if my only other option was Gentoo
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> haltdef: are you the funroll-loops kind of user? ;)
[15:03] <haltdef> what
[15:04] <Thorn_> gcc flag
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> haltdef: http://funroll-loops.info/
[15:04] <AnotherBot> Welcome to Gentoo is Rice, the Volume goes to 11 here.
[15:04] <Caver> god thats annoying
[15:04] <hamitron> haltdef, same, love games <3
[15:07] <Jaseman> it'll be 2 more weeks
[15:08] <haltdef> no, it's just the sheer amount of packages as well as use flags
[15:08] <haltdef> was going to try it on the pi but even with distcc it'll probably be too painful
[15:08] <haltdef> though, I wonder what arm version "armel" packages are compiled for on debian
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> haltdef: http://www.debian.org/ports/arm/
[15:09] <AnotherBot> Debian -- ARM Port
[15:09] <haltdef> and if there would be any performance gain by compiling for the pi's cpu specifically
[15:09] <hamitron> I think I'll try clfs
[15:10] <hamitron> will probably test on something known to work first ofc
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> Debian will support ARM6, and on Wheezy ARM7
[15:10] <haltdef> are binaries still compiled for older arm versions for compatibility though?
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> I think they could be
[15:11] <Jaseman> quadcopter my arse
[15:11] * hamitron would guess debian will try support everything
[15:11] <hamitron> just maybe 2 years late
[15:11] <hamitron> ;)
[15:11] <haltdef> testing repo is surprisingly up to date
[15:12] * hamitron uses stable
[15:12] <gobby> haltdef: Cross compile on a bigger box
[15:12] <jzu> Debian works flawlessly on a NSLU2, porting to the RPi should be easy
[15:12] <hamitron> so does armedslack
[15:12] <haltdef> I've got a cross compiler setup, I meant for emerging stuff *on* the pi
[15:13] * piofcube (~piofcube@piofcube.1billionhex.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[15:13] <UukGoblin> don't you spoil the pi with your gentoos!
[15:14] * gobby steps away from that argument
[15:14] * OneFix_Work (~onefix@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:14] <jzu> otoh, openembedded never worked for me
[15:14] <hamitron> hehe
[15:16] <UukGoblin> well, or let me know how many weeks it takes to compile firefox on it ;-D
[15:16] <Caver> lol
[15:16] <Caver> and can you do it in less than 3Gb of ram?
[15:16] <OneFix_Work> Are there plans for a Raspberry Pi device with integrated wifi? I know a USB card could be used on the first 2 models, but I'm thinking a lot of people will want to use wifi for their projects...
[15:16] <UukGoblin> you'd probably have to attach extra ram over USB
[15:16] <haltdef> no
[15:17] <Caver> no you can't
[15:17] <hamitron> I read firefox needs a 64 bit OS to compile now
[15:17] <hamitron> dunno if it is true
[15:17] <haltdef> maybe a pandaboard is more what you're after
[15:17] <hamitron> ;)
[15:17] <Caver> OneFix_Work, plug in a wifi usb card if thats what you need
[15:17] <UukGoblin> openpandora has wifi on it. :->
[15:17] <jzu> UukGoblin: that's called swapping, and it's horrendous through USB
[15:17] <UukGoblin> jzu, yup ;-]
[15:17] * Tobias| (~Tobias@unaffiliated/tobias/x-2050245) Quit (Quit: ~)
[15:18] <UukGoblin> so perhaps more like s/weeks/months/
[15:18] <OneFix_Work> Caver: Yea, it's just hard to find one with an antenna connector that can be modified to fit into a project box...
[15:18] <UukGoblin> actually
[15:18] * Tobias| (~Tobias@unaffiliated/tobias/x-2050245) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:18] <UukGoblin> you could perhaps swap via NBD over ethernet to some real box
[15:18] <UukGoblin> but that's...
[15:19] <Jaseman> just have a really log network cable trailing off it
[15:19] <OneFix_Work> UukGoblin: You'll also likely kill the USB card after a few days if you are using a lot of memory...flash has a limited amount of writes that can be performed in its lifetime.
[15:19] <UukGoblin> well, you can attach lots of stuff via USB, not just flash
[15:20] <OneFix_Work> UukGoblin: You could presumably attach a hard drive, but it's still going to be slow going over the USB port
[15:21] <OneFix_Work> UukGoblin: The Raspberry Pi's USB ports are only USB 2.0
[15:21] <Caver> yup
[15:21] <Thorn_> well atleast it's stero
[15:21] <jzu> ...and share the same port as the network interface
[15:21] <Thorn_> stereo
[15:21] <Thorn_> oh nvm
[15:21] <Caver> though I connects hard disks to my desktop machine that way, and it's not too awful
[15:21] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-187-137-199.lns16.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[15:21] <jzu> actually is connected to the same port on the Soc
[15:22] <UukGoblin> OneFix_Work, yup... hence the NBD via ethernet idea ;-]
[15:22] <OneFix_Work> Caver: But those are being used as secondary storage, not primary storage or swap...
[15:22] <UukGoblin> usb 2.0 is up to 480Mbit/s
[15:22] <UukGoblin> so it's doable...
[15:22] <haltdef> half duplex
[15:23] <Caver> OneFix_Work, this was rescueing data
[15:23] <OneFix_Work> UukGoblin: The ethernet ports are only 100Mbps ports and USB is ~400Mbps
[15:23] <UukGoblin> ah
[15:23] <Caver> no one is saying it's ideal, just possible
[15:23] <jzu> UukGoblin: doable, possibly. See you in 4 months
[15:23] <UukGoblin> yeah
[15:23] <UukGoblin> jzu, I wasn't the one who suggested gentoo on raspi!
[15:24] <OneFix_Work> Though, I'm not sure about how the USB ports are implemented either...on desktops, USB takes up processor cycles ... because they don't include hardware controllers like they do with firewire...
[15:24] * Hopsy (~kvirc@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:25] <bolosaur> alright, thanks for the help guys.
[15:25] <Caver> yeah ... guess we'll have to wait and see on that score
[15:26] <jzu> more than Gentoo, I'd like to see FreeBSD on the RPi
[15:26] <UukGoblin> I have a pandora which is a similar chip
[15:26] <UukGoblin> and it has USB
[15:26] <UukGoblin> but... I would never shame it with gentoo
[15:26] <Caver> jzu, oh - how come?
[15:26] <OneFix_Work> jzu: More likely to see NetBSD
[15:26] <jzu> um, why not?
[15:26] <UukGoblin> well more than anything, I'd like to see the actual Pi!
[15:27] <Caver> :)
[15:27] <Caver> getting the graphics working might be awkward, but the rest ought to work
[15:28] <Caver> (famous last words lol)
[15:30] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:30] <Jaseman> as long as i can run nano thats all that matters
[15:30] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[15:31] <Aquilus_> Hehe
[15:32] <UukGoblin> Jaseman, easily
[15:32] <OneFix_Work> BTW, I know that the first group of production boards are going to be ready for sale soon, but when the first bunch sells out (probably in the first 10 minutes), how quickly will production be able to push out the boards?
[15:32] <UukGoblin> you can definitely run vim
[15:32] <Jaseman> i dont want vim
[15:32] <Jaseman> i want nano
[15:32] <haltdef> I read 3-4 more weeks
[15:32] <Jaseman> i have vi
[15:32] <haltdef> and they'd msot likely do more than 10k if the first batch sells out that fast
[15:32] <Jaseman> hate vi
[15:33] <Jaseman> its just a pain trying to remember the keys
[15:33] <UukGoblin> vim is gonna be much more resource intensive and it works
[15:33] <UukGoblin> so nano will as well
[15:33] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[15:33] <OneFix_Work> haltdef: You know there will be makers and geeks snatching these things up like a kid eating candy :)
[15:33] <UukGoblin> of course depends how large a file you want to edit ;-]
[15:34] <Jaseman> just enough to write short html pages
[15:34] <UukGoblin> that's why I wish there was a pre-order option
[15:35] <UukGoblin> it'd spread the load on the page over time
[15:35] <Jaseman> get over it
[15:35] <haltdef> their reasoning is sound tbh
[15:35] <UukGoblin> you can guess the second it's launched the site will 500
[15:35] <Caver> they said the shop will be on a much chunkier server
[15:35] <UukGoblin> unless they really plan their CDN well
[15:35] <Caver> but yeah it's going to be a stampede
[15:36] <Jaseman> they should just sell them through ebay
[15:36] <Caver> I hope they launch it early uk time, so we can get in before the americans wake up
[15:36] <Caver> ick no
[15:36] <UukGoblin> Jaseman, they sold 10
[15:36] <Jaseman> i mean with the buy now option
[15:36] <Jaseman> not as an auction
[15:36] <UukGoblin> heh
[15:36] <Aquilus_> Caver: I agree :D
[15:36] <OneFix_Work> Caver: Well, they could always sell through Amazon or Yahoo...I doubt they are going to try and handle credit card/paypal payments on their own
[15:37] <UukGoblin> '1234 more available, 8766 sold'
[15:37] <haltdef> eben said in a video interview it'd all be through paypal
[15:37] <Caver> ah well ... I'm fairly sure it's already planned out now
[15:37] <UukGoblin> crap
[15:37] <haltdef> they know what they're doing, stop panicking :P
[15:37] <Jaseman> maybe a table at the top of the driveway would be better
[15:37] <Jaseman> get your raspi's here
[15:37] <haltdef> moving the site to a better server shortly according to their twitter
[15:37] * felipeal` (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:37] <UukGoblin> paypal will lock their account in no time
[15:38] * Caver hands paper bags out to help with the hyperventilation
[15:38] <Jaseman> lol
[15:38] <UukGoblin> all it takes is one fucker using a stolen account
[15:38] <haltdef> registered as a business or charity I'd imagine
[15:38] <Jaseman> relax its going to be fine
[15:38] <Caver> charity
[15:38] <Jaseman> everyone will form an orderly queue
[15:38] <Caver> I'm sure paypal can manage the hords
[15:38] <Jaseman> and plenty of raspi's for all
[15:38] <Caver> thought might be worth while checking your paypal account is working already
[15:39] <ahven> virtual credit cards + paypal ftw :)
[15:39] <UukGoblin> Caver, that's futile
[15:39] <Jaseman> some tw*t will be clicking refresh on the shop page 20 times a second
[15:39] <UukGoblin> they can lock your account at will anytime
[15:39] <Jaseman> killing it for everyone
[15:40] <UukGoblin> ahven, strongly disagree
[15:40] <Caver> Jaseman, it'll be on a CDN, so unlikely
[15:40] <OneFix_Work> Well, wasn't the idea to make it easy enough so that the devices could eventually be produced by multiple groups in different countries?
[15:40] <Caver> UukGoblin, disagree about what
[15:40] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:40] <UukGoblin> Caver, about "paypal" and "ftw" in the same sentence
[15:41] <Caver> ?? that was ahven
[15:41] <Jaseman> im sure you could request 10,000 of them be delivered direct to you from china
[15:41] <UukGoblin> Caver, yes... and I replied to ahven
[15:41] <Caver> ah
[15:41] <Caver> d'oh
[15:42] <Caver> lol can see the news now ... photo of shocked looking truck driver, a empty cargo lorry ... "Pi's stolen at gun point from port"
[15:43] <Caver> "Interpol treating as terror crime"
[15:43] <Jaseman> eben and liz barricading the windows of their home
[15:43] <Jaseman> storm the building!
[15:44] <UukGoblin> heheh
[15:44] <Jaseman> thousands of geeks ramming the front door using keyboards
[15:44] <UukGoblin> Jaseman, you'd be surprised...
[15:45] <UukGoblin> have you seen demonstrations over ACTA in Poland?
[15:45] <UukGoblin> it was mostly geeks
[15:45] <Caver> (usb ones?)
[15:45] <Jaseman> no ps2
[15:45] <Jaseman> they need to look after their usb ones
[15:45] <Caver> mind you ... a old fashoned IBM one, could be used to batter a door down and still work
[15:46] <Caver> heavy enough too
[15:46] <Jaseman> at/xt keyboard
[15:46] <Jaseman> you dont see many of those any more
[15:47] <Jaseman> they were just called at keyboards
[15:47] <Jaseman> not xt
[15:47] <Jaseman> i guess it was after the ibm AT
[15:48] <jzu> the IBM PC keyboard had no separate arrow keys
[15:48] <Caver> well AT ones have the arrow keys on, XT ones didn't
[15:48] <Caver> *whistful* lovely click on them
[15:48] <UukGoblin> yeaah
[15:49] <UukGoblin> I'm sure you could fit a raspi inside of it ;-]
[15:49] <Caver> LOL probably trye
[15:49] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5646.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:49] <Caver> I bet people are going to come up with all sorts of interesting case idea's
[15:49] <Caver> hi ReggieUK
[15:49] <ReggieUK> hi
[15:50] <Jaseman> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Keyboard-Vintage-Model-102-QWERTY-/220937495136?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_KeyboardsMice&hash=item3370e6a260
[15:50] <AnotherBot> Dell Keyboard Vintage Model AT 102 QWERTY | eBay
[15:50] <Jaseman> what a bargain
[15:51] <Caver> ick no ... got one of those - it's vile
[15:51] <Caver> nothing like the IBM ones
[15:52] <Jaseman> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OLD-STYLE-XT-5-PIN-DIN-KEYBOARD-102-KEY-fbd2ce-/120836348629?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item1c22685ad5
[15:52] <AnotherBot> OLD STYLE XT - AT 5 PIN DIN KEYBOARD 102 KEY fbd2ce | eBay
[15:52] <Jaseman> fifty quid plus postage!
[15:52] <Jaseman> are they having a laugh?
[15:52] <Caver> hehehe check the completes prices
[15:52] <Caver> yes probably
[15:55] * robde (~krake@p579028E4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Bye.)
[15:55] <Jaseman> hey this one is a beauty:
[15:55] <Jaseman> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-IBM-Personal-Computer-Keyboard-5150-5160-/280810054658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4161956402
[15:55] <AnotherBot> Vintage IBM Personal Computer Keyboard for 5150/5160 | eBay
[15:56] <Caver> an XT one .. ooh and even DIN connector
[15:56] <Jaseman> i wonder if you could convert it to usb?
[15:57] <Caver> you can you need a DIN --> PS/2 --> USB adaptors
[15:57] <Caver> *why* you'd do it is a very different question lol
[15:57] <Jaseman> retro
[15:57] * Caver is sad and old enough to have all those in my desk draw already
[15:57] <Caver> the lack of zero on the number pad is a bummer
[15:58] <Jaseman> yeah but think of the quality of the plastic
[15:58] <Jaseman> and how heavy that thing is
[15:59] <Caver> LOL ... you mean thick steel?
[15:59] <Jaseman> yeah
[16:00] <Jaseman> you dont get quailty like that on keyboards these days
[16:00] <Caver> it was designed that way to survive heavy handed typists who were more used to manual typewriters that you had to really thump out
[16:00] <Jaseman> you could type with a hammer and chisel on that
[16:00] <Jaseman> and still not harm it
[16:00] <Caver> heheh yup, but thankfully they don't cost that much these days either!
[16:01] <UukGoblin> Caver, it also has the side effect of still working after dozens of years later
[16:01] <UukGoblin> there's no internal key-hit counter to switch the electronics off after warranty period
[16:01] <Jaseman> and no windows key
[16:02] <Jaseman> for all you microsoft haters out there
[16:02] <Caver> meh ... the Cherry keyboard I got in 1994 only stopped working last year after a coffee incident too many
[16:02] <jzu> my old Grid keyboard can still endure my furious typing
[16:02] * uen| is now known as uen
[16:02] <jzu> it doesn't have windows keys
[16:02] <rm> I wonder if I can chain DIN->/PS/2->USB actually
[16:02] <rm> probably ..yes
[16:02] <UukGoblin> yes
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> rm: the keyboard would have to support it
[16:03] <Caver> heheh it defo works - was now my old cherry one was working until last year
[16:03] <UukGoblin> din is identical to ps/2 electronically
[16:03] <Caver> now = how
[16:03] <zer0her0> grid made an external keyboard?
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> UukGoblin: sure but if the keyboard doesn't have USB/PS2 switching electronics it won't work on USB
[16:03] <UukGoblin> MartijnVdS, well that depends on the ps/2->usb converter
[16:03] <UukGoblin> some dummy ones require the keyb to have electronics, yeah
[16:04] <Caver> oh you need a proper converter not a silly connect the pins electronically job
[16:04] <rm> no I mean a smart converter
[16:04] <Caver> look for one with a 2nd connection for the mouse
[16:04] <rm> yeah then that'll work
[16:04] <UukGoblin> or you could just wire the keyboard to raspi's GPIO pins and convert it in software and send it serially over USB...
[16:05] <Caver> true
[16:05] <UukGoblin> oh, but raspi can't act as a USB slave, can it?
[16:05] <Jaseman> someone do it please!
[16:05] <Caver> LOL a fun if geeky project
[16:05] <Caver> UukGoblin, good call :)
[16:05] <rm> GPIO-to-DIN converter then
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> You go on ebay.
[16:05] <rm> or to PS/2
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Now you search for PS2 USB converter
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> and you buy one for $3.50 including shipping.
[16:06] <rm> yeah
[16:06] <rm> but GPIO and interfacing with a DIN keyboard in software sounds amusing
[16:07] <rm> something the PCs from 1980s would do
[16:07] <rm> oh sorry not PCs, just computers :)
[16:07] * Caver has about 40 DIN --> PS2 in my draw
[16:08] <UukGoblin> Caver, you must be a real keyboard geek
[16:08] <UukGoblin> I'd find 1 or 2 DIN->PS2 converters, an s3 virge, perhaps even a connector cable from voodoo to 2d gfx card
[16:08] <UukGoblin> but 40 converters? that's tough
[16:08] <Caver> lol no .. just we used to have a rack of servers that were DIN, and connected to a KVM switch that was PS/2
[16:08] <UukGoblin> ah.
[16:09] <Caver> all running on a single vmware ESXi boxen now :)
[16:09] <Jaseman> http://technabob.com/blog/2009/04/12/sinclair-zx-spectrum-linux-pc-casemod/
[16:09] <AnotherBot> Sinclair Zx Spectrum 8-Bit Micro Computer Gets Modern Makeover as Linux Pc - Technabob
[16:10] <Caver> I can't tell you how tedious running DBAN on them all, was as they were decommissioned!
[16:11] <Caver> does a ISA graphics card count as geeky?
[16:11] * M0GHY (~peterholl@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[16:12] <UukGoblin> "a good way to totally clean a Microsoft Windows installation of viruses and spyware"
[16:12] <UukGoblin> ^ naah. Smart stuff will put itself into NVRAM, or even boot area of GPU BIOS
[16:13] <UukGoblin> Caver, nope, it's just old.
[16:13] <Caver> :(
[16:14] <UukGoblin> Caver, it's only geeky if you plug it via a ISA->PCI->PCI-Ex converter and do something useful with it
[16:15] <Caver> I've got a PCMCIA ISA bus master <> ISA over a very fast serial link, somewhere
[16:15] <Caver> sort of like a docking station, but you could put own cards in
[16:16] <Caver> sorry ... no it's PCCARD and PCI not ISA ...
[16:16] <UukGoblin> hmm... PCMCIA ISA? :-O
[16:16] <UukGoblin> yeah sounded odd
[16:16] <Caver> I did sucessfully make the 3DFX work from a laptop!
[16:16] <UukGoblin> hahah
[16:17] <UukGoblin> I remember running on pure 3dfx for a while
[16:17] <Caver> (come on, that has to be nerd worthy)
[16:17] <UukGoblin> no 2d gfx
[16:17] <Caver> :)
[16:17] <UukGoblin> yeah, that's OK
[16:18] <UukGoblin> fuck, I'm old :-/
[16:19] <Caver> UukGoblin, your as old as you want to be
[16:19] <UukGoblin> Caver, no, I mean like number of years since I was born
[16:19] <UukGoblin> is high
[16:19] <UukGoblin> certainly higher than it used to be
[16:20] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:20] * hamitron still has his voodoo2 cards in his comp
[16:21] <Caver> well if was going the other way, think how scarry pupity would be to go through backwards?
[16:23] <UukGoblin> well...
[16:24] <UukGoblin> we'd have a proper 4d space to move around in
[16:24] <UukGoblin> not some shitty direction-bound dimension
[16:28] <rm> UukGoblin, afaik there's a Xorg driver for Voodoo1/2
[16:28] <rm> that allows them to be used as 2D cards
[16:28] <rm> right?
[16:28] <hamitron> there is
[16:28] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:28] <Caver> yup there is
[16:28] <UukGoblin> dunno, I know there was a framebuffer driver that did that
[16:28] <hamitron> a pain when dual booting
[16:28] <UukGoblin> and I ran X on fb
[16:28] <hamitron> :/
[16:28] <Caver> just draws all objects in triangles I believe
[16:29] <UukGoblin> I think it actually somehow grabbed the voodoo's framebuffer
[16:29] <Caver> no bios of course!
[16:29] <UukGoblin> yeah just no bios
[16:29] <UukGoblin> had to set bios manually to not halt on vga errors
[16:30] <hamitron> should port glide over to the pi
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> rm: Just 2 big triangles and a texture would work
[16:30] <UukGoblin> I actually didn't run X much these days
[16:31] <UukGoblin> links + irssi on screen mostly
[16:31] <UukGoblin> it was the good times when no-one used javascript
[16:31] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:31] * cerberos (~cerberos@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:31] <UukGoblin> only some shitty java-based websites actually required me to run X
[16:31] <UukGoblin> no-one heard of flash back then, either
[16:32] <hamitron> can't you just dsiable javascript in the browser settings?
[16:32] <hamitron> :/
[16:32] <UukGoblin> hamitron, good luck with that
[16:32] <Caver> lol
[16:32] <UukGoblin> see how long you survive on the web
[16:32] <UukGoblin> without js these days
[16:33] <hamitron> :/
[16:33] <engla> use noscript and you'll get pretty far
[16:34] <UukGoblin> engla, try to sign into gmail with that
[16:34] <UukGoblin> or facebook
[16:34] <jzu> there are headless browsers
[16:35] <jzu> I suppose one could use them as "UI proxy"
[16:35] <engla> UukGoblin: logging in to facebook works fine
[16:35] <UukGoblin> (I actually use neither of them)
[16:35] <UukGoblin> engla, ok "pretty"
[16:35] <engla> unsure about gmail, they used to have a html version
[16:35] <UukGoblin> yes, some stuff will work
[16:35] <hamitron> doesn't gmail offer an old way?
[16:35] <engla> UukGoblin: anyway using noscript you can remove all the bad parts of javascript
[16:36] <UukGoblin> google used to work pretty well, but now for instance the calculator feature doesn't work without js
[16:36] <jzu> http://www.phantomjs.org/
[16:36] <engla> and reduce JS's memory share in firefox down to 20%
[16:36] <AnotherBot> PhantomJS: Headless WebKit with JavaScript API
[16:36] <engla> that's from my old computer
[16:36] <UukGoblin> engla, you're doing it backwards. By the time you run noscript, you already have a big bloaty browser running.
[16:36] <engla> so what's wrong with it?
[16:36] <hamitron> bloat
[16:36] <hamitron> ;)
[16:37] <UukGoblin> jzu, hm, nice
[16:37] <engla> well I wanted gmail to work
[16:37] <hamitron> tbh, I've lost interest in the web, the way things have gon
[16:37] <hamitron> gone
[16:38] <UukGoblin> engla, I use mutt
[16:38] <UukGoblin> used to use fetchmail, these days there's getmail
[16:38] <UukGoblin> mixing protocols like that is wrong imho
[16:38] <UukGoblin> IMAP/POP should stay the fuck away from HTTP
[16:39] <Caver> UukGoblin, do don't use them :)
[16:40] <Caver> POP3 ick ... whats the point in this day and age?
[16:40] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:40] <hamitron> I prefer pop3 to imap tbh
[16:40] <IT_Sean> IMAP FTW
[16:40] <jzu> I still use pop3
[16:40] <UukGoblin> Caver, doesn't matter for me... getmail handles both
[16:40] <jzu> MY mail is on MY machine
[16:41] <IT_Sean> I use POP for my work email, actually.
[16:41] <Caver> fair enough if it's all up and working, and the ISP is happy to continue it
[16:41] <Caver> but technically - *why*!
[16:41] <jzu> because it's a simple protocol
[16:41] <UukGoblin> Caver, to be able to receive email
[16:41] <hamitron> I've tried all this remote and cloud stuff, and it just isn't as reliable imo :/
[16:41] <Caver> yeah which imap does more than happily
[16:41] <UukGoblin> yeah IMAP is fine
[16:41] <rm> I get all my mail by SMTP
[16:41] <UukGoblin> just a bit bloated for my use
[16:41] <rm> from other servers to mine
[16:41] <AnotherBot> Blog: Livecoding with Qt5 on the Raspberry Pi - http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/584
[16:41] <UukGoblin> rm, ...
[16:41] <UukGoblin> rm, no, you don't.
[16:42] <UukGoblin> rm, oh... OK ;-)
[16:42] <rm> UukGoblin, tell me more :D
[16:42] <rm> hehe
[16:42] <rm> and then my server delivers it locally into mail box
[16:42] <rm> /var/mail/whatever
[16:42] <Caver> nods ... only reason I say this, is I've noticed quite a few ISPs are getting rid of POP3 and moving to IMAP only
[16:42] <UukGoblin> rm, yeah OK fair enough
[16:42] <hamitron> is it just me, or does IMAP break on a slow connection on a lot of mail clients?
[16:42] <IT_Sean> It's you.
[16:42] <IT_Sean> :p
[16:42] <UukGoblin> rm, you're not the random newb I thought you were
[16:42] <hamitron> haha
[16:42] <IT_Sean> i have no idea.
[16:42] <hamitron> :)
[16:42] <Caver> it's you
[16:43] <Caver> works fine for me on 2G GSM and you don't get a lot slower
[16:43] <UukGoblin> Caver, ISPs should stay the fuck away from layer 4+ protocols
[16:43] <rm> it is so awesome when you know that Google or whoever, doesn't have all your mail
[16:43] <hamitron> I was thinking with 5KB/s
[16:43] <hamitron> rm, indeed
[16:43] <hamitron> :)
[16:43] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[16:43] <rm> it's insanity because things like all passwords from all accounts go in the mail
[16:43] <rm> AND then people also use Google Calendar and Picasa and whatever
[16:44] <rm> so google owns all their life
[16:44] <Caver> well somehow we have to pay for all the free services we consume
[16:44] <hamitron> if you have your own domain for email.... what email is best to use for backup of the domain? ;)
[16:44] <UukGoblin> yeah, I prefer to pay with my time (setting up an MTA) than my soul
[16:44] <Aquilus_> hamitron: I just forward my domain mail to my gmail :p
[16:45] <rm> as a backup G-Mail is okay
[16:45] <Aquilus_> Mainly because my personal server is an ancient laptop which I expect to collapse at any moment.
[16:45] <hamitron> I never got around to moving away from yahoo mail
[16:45] <hamitron> :/
[16:45] <Aquilus_> Maybe I'll use a Pi for Mail :p
[16:45] <rm> that's feasible
[16:45] <hamitron> yeh
[16:45] <IT_Sean> PiMail?
[16:45] <rm> at least when they'll let us have more than one
[16:46] <IT_Sean> oooh wait! PieMail! :p
[16:46] <IT_Sean> Pi eMail. PieMail. :p
[16:46] <hamitron> but why would you want the chore of reading mail on a device that could be fun? :|Z
[16:46] <rm> because stuffing the only one you get into a closet to act as a server is a bit suboptimal
[16:46] <hamitron> :|
[16:46] <UukGoblin> IT_Sean, cute!
[16:46] <IT_Sean> :D
[16:47] <UukGoblin> hamitron, I'm getting like 5 raspis
[16:47] <UukGoblin> one for fun, one for chores, 3 as backup
[16:47] <Caver> not from the 1st batch your not ... fairs fair
[16:47] <UukGoblin> actually perhaps 2 for chores
[16:47] <UukGoblin> Caver, what?
[16:48] <UukGoblin> Caver, are they limiting it or sth?
[16:48] <hamitron> 1 each
[16:48] <UukGoblin> I'll get my gf one
[16:48] <UukGoblin> and my mum and grandma
[16:48] <hamitron> per household
[16:48] <UukGoblin> WHAT?!?!
[16:48] <Aquilus_> Yes.
[16:48] <Aquilus_> Don't be greedy.
[16:48] <UukGoblin> PER HOUSEHOLD?!
[16:48] <UukGoblin> shit
[16:48] <Caver> UukGoblin, yes one per address
[16:48] <UukGoblin> I have 4 people living in my place! At least 2 of them want 2+ raspis!
[16:48] <hamitron> this is a problem
[16:48] <UukGoblin> so per household or address?
[16:48] <hamitron> :)
[16:48] <Caver> not from the 1st batch
[16:49] <UukGoblin> so I can't order one to my office?
[16:49] <Caver> per address I ather
[16:49] <Aquilus_> More pis for us, UukGoblin. :p
[16:49] <UukGoblin> this is bullshit :-/
[16:49] <hamitron> Goblin's Pis
[16:49] <hamitron> ;/
[16:49] <UukGoblin> :-(
[16:49] <hamitron> but there will be more later
[16:50] <Caver> "How many can I buy in one go?
[16:50] <Caver> For the first batch we are limiting orders to one per person."
[16:50] <Caver> hmmm ... thats from the FAQ
[16:50] <Caver> I don't know if it is per person or address
[16:50] <UukGoblin> per person is more reasonable
[16:51] <Caver> I guess time will tell!
[16:51] <hamitron> weren't you ever taught to share your toys? ;)
[16:51] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] <UukGoblin> hamitron, nope, I'm the only child
[16:53] <UukGoblin> I mean... if I get 5, I'm happy to share 1 or 2 of them
[16:53] <IT_Sean> Caver: per mailing address, i believe. But if you try ot get cheeky, they may deny your extra orders.
[16:53] <Caver> I gather come the 2nd batch you can order as many as you like
[16:53] <Caver> IT_Sean, ok
[16:54] <Caver> UukGoblin, did you see that?
[16:54] <UukGoblin> that means no orders to the office :-/
[16:54] <UukGoblin> or is Name part of "mailing address"?
[16:54] <UukGoblin> the company I work for was actually thinking of ordering ~10 000 of them
[16:54] <hamitron> your office is at home?
[16:54] <UukGoblin> hamitron, no, there's about 200+ people employed in the office in central london
[16:54] <Caver> lol ... that might be considered not ok
[16:55] <jzu> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/584
[16:55] <UukGoblin> and guess what... 90% of them want raspis!
[16:55] <AnotherBot> Livecoding with Qt5 on the Raspberry Pi | Raspberry Pi
[16:55] <UukGoblin> company was considering them for testing
[16:55] <UukGoblin> cheaper than ixia...
[16:55] <hamitron> isn't 1 ok for testing?
[16:56] <UukGoblin> nono
[16:56] <UukGoblin> testing the network/service
[16:56] <Caver> well once the full production is occuring - no problem - they need to sell at least 30k to cover dev costs
[16:56] <Caver> so I don't imagine they'll be upset at big orders
[16:56] <UukGoblin> hamitron, set them up as CPEs and get them to graph network data...
[16:57] <hamitron> I would have thought for such a large number, could get a seperate batch made specially?
[16:57] <Caver> yup
[16:57] <UukGoblin> I guess
[16:57] <UukGoblin> they're probably not going to go for it as it's not as practical
[16:57] <UukGoblin> it was mostly pub-talk ;-)
[16:57] <UukGoblin> how would you stack 10k of 'em in a rack?
[16:57] <UukGoblin> the cabling would be horrible
[16:58] <Caver> lol ... would look *exactly* like a spider
[16:58] <Caver> cables from all corners
[16:58] <UukGoblin> yeah
[16:58] <hamitron> spider pi
[16:58] <hamitron> ;/
[16:58] <IT_Sean> Caver: no... it would look exactly like 10000 spiders, all trying to snog one another at the same time.
[16:58] <Caver> *faints*
[16:59] <Caver> are we back to Pi porn *again*
[17:00] <hamitron> Caver, just your mind I think
[17:00] <hamitron> :/
[17:00] <IT_Sean> Caver: it ALWAYS comes back to porn :p
[17:00] <UukGoblin> yeah
[17:00] <IT_Sean> Rule 34
[17:00] <Aquilus_> Raspberry Pi #34?
[17:00] <Caver> I wasn't mentioning snogging ...
[17:00] <Aquilus_> Haven't seen any of that yet, IT_Sean
[17:00] <IT_Sean> Aquilus_: that's because the raspi isn't out yet
[17:00] * PiBot slaps IT_Sean across the face with a cast iron pan.
[17:01] <IT_Sean> hey!
[17:01] <IT_Sean> that hurt!
[17:01] <hamitron> it isn't out yet?
[17:01] <hamitron> :/
[17:02] <Caver> now now children
[17:03] <UukGoblin> hrm...
[17:03] <UukGoblin> raspi - is it out yet?
[17:03] * PiBot slaps UukGoblin across the face with a cast iron pan.
[17:03] * PiBot slaps UukGoblin across the face with a cast iron pan.
[17:03] <UukGoblin> hahah
[17:03] <UukGoblin> I like it :-D
[17:03] <UukGoblin> (why twice though?)
[17:03] <RaTTuS|BIG> is it ?
[17:03] <hamitron> it isn't out yet?
[17:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o ukscone
[17:03] <UukGoblin> how about nao?
[17:03] <UukGoblin> and nao?
[17:04] <IT_Sean> UukGoblin: shuddup
[17:04] <Caver> hi ukscone - nice video btw
[17:04] <jzu> that's because it matches raspi and then is it
[17:04] <jzu> in addition to out yet
[17:05] <jzu> there's no elsif
[17:05] <UukGoblin> ah. ;-]
[17:05] <jzu> that's what I could infer from a private conversation with PiBot :-)
[17:05] <hamitron> "is_it_out_yet?" does it, doesn't it?
[17:05] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[17:06] <Aquilus_> Is it in yet?
[17:06] <hamitron> super
[17:06] <hamitron> :)
[17:06] <RaTTuS|BIG> out is it yet?
[17:07] <ukscone> anyone know how to add a user to autoops list in a freenode channel?
[17:07] <rm> /chanserv help
[17:08] <haltdef> are oyu going to go on a bot banning spree
[17:08] * Hopsy (~kvirc@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:08] <ukscone> haltdef: setting a spare op and starting to get some rule of law in here
[17:08] <haltdef> good plan
[17:08] <haltdef> did the channel suddenly get big on you? :P
[17:09] <Caver> good!
[17:09] <Caver> can we kick some of the bots?
[17:09] <Caver> AnotherBot, being a good canderdate
[17:09] <ukscone> haltdef: no i was planning on laying down some rules once we got nearer the pi release
[17:09] <hamitron> Caver, half its size? :/
[17:09] <IT_Sean> Caver: relax. We are reevaluating the channel bot policy.
[17:09] <ukscone> and always planned on giving IT_Sean ops
[17:09] * RaTTuS|BIG is not sure of freenode commands ....
[17:10] <RaTTuS|BIG> though chanserv help op suggest /msg chanserv op #RaspberryPi nick
[17:12] <AnotherBot> Twitter: Raspberry_Pi: New video at http://t.co/eAPQIvmi - live coding with Qt5, QML and shaders, and a giant raspberry. - http://twitter.com/Raspberry_Pi/statuses/162930891168034816
[17:13] <rm> that's actually one useful thing from all these bots
[17:13] <RaTTuS|BIG> ... one to try /msg chanserv devoice anotherbot
[17:14] <jzu> rm: hm, I gave that link 20 mn ago
[17:14] <IT_Sean> .. /voice and /devoice only work if the channel is +m
[17:14] <RaTTuS|BIG> ok just kickban then
[17:15] <IT_Sean> heh
[17:15] <rm> jzu, missed that
[17:15] <IT_Sean> As i have said. #raspberrypi staff are evaluating the channel bot policy, and will be making changes.
[17:15] <rm> point is, from all the bot nonsense, reposting twitter here is useful for me
[17:15] <rm> because I don't use twitter
[17:15] * hamitron neither
[17:16] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[17:16] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:17] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:17] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:17] <Caver> IT_Sean, are you part of the staff?
[17:19] <IT_Sean> Caver: yes. Presently, ukscone and myself are staffing the channel.
[17:19] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne as well if he agrees
[17:19] * Caver bows before his geek overlords
[17:19] <ukscone> that way it'll need a majority to apply policy
[17:20] <ukscone> although my vote counts for triple
[17:20] <hamitron> hehe
[17:20] <IT_Sean> :p
[17:20] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:21] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:21] <RaTTuS|BIG> you would probbaly want ops from other TZ really [ 3 shifts ]
[17:22] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:23] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:23] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:23] <mrdragons> Just be careful with /kickban on bots, because a lot of times the bots are on the same IP as the user that made them...
[17:25] <haltdef> nothing of value lost
[17:25] <haltdef> :>
[17:26] <rm> exactly :)
[17:26] <RaTTuS|BIG> well at least I got paid this month .,.,., so now I have cash for a RPi .... now it up to the gods if I get one of the 1st bacth now ......
[17:26] <IT_Sean> mrdragons: we know what we are doing. ...mostly. :p
[17:26] <haltdef> my dad gave me and my brothers ??200 each to celebrate him getting a job, I'm using literally the last ??26 of it for the raspi
[17:26] <haltdef> (I'm unemployed)
[17:26] <haltdef> :P
[17:26] <mrdragons> Heh. :P
[17:27] <IT_Sean> We don't plan on setting any bans unless absolutly necessary.
[17:28] <RaTTuS|BIG> +1
[17:28] <Caver> +1
[17:28] <RaTTuS|BIG> on release day there will be tears
[17:28] <Caver> RaspberryPiBot, there certainly will be once sold out
[17:29] <Caver> but I think thats unavoidable
[17:29] <RaTTuS|BIG> yarg
[17:30] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit ()
[17:31] <IT_Sean> guys... relax. There will be more after the 1st batch. :p
[17:31] <traeak> heh
[17:31] <traeak> there's nothing right now
[17:31] <traeak> so you'll survive :-p
[17:31] <Caver> it's fine I've already handed around paper bags to assist with the hyperventilating
[17:31] <RaTTuS|BIG> but I want one with a v low production number
[17:31] <traeak> i want one that actually works :-p
[17:31] <Caver> lol
[17:31] <hamitron> RaTTuS|BIG, didn't bid for one then?
[17:32] <IT_Sean> RaTTuS|BIG: too late. the P/Ns of the 1st batch start at 873652232
[17:32] * dominikh (~dominikh@cinch/developer/dominikh) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] <IT_Sean> :p
[17:32] <RaTTuS|BIG> I've got toys and a pram and they are going on the floor etc....
[17:32] <traeak> IT_Sean: and they count backwards
[17:32] <IT_Sean> Yup.
[17:32] <Caver> I'm sure they mentioned in one of the video's that the MAC addresses of the 1st batch were something or rather ... 001
[17:34] * themArt_ (~themArt@87-194-162-126.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912])
[17:36] <ReggieUK> hi all
[17:37] <mrdragons> I think people are worried too much about being able to get one. If they sell out, you'll just have to wait for the next batch...
[17:37] <Caver> yeah
[17:37] <Caver> which I imagine can be ordered fairly smartly
[17:38] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:38] <ReggieUK> people are naturally worried, afterall, a few people think it's vaporware, others think it will only be a single run and some of us have been waiting absolutely months and months for it to come out
[17:38] * IT_Sean falls into the 3rd catagory
[17:38] * ReggieUK joins IT_Sean
[17:39] <mrdragons> True, I've been here for a while and would love to get one
[17:39] <RaTTuS|BIG> yeah I hoped for one in November ....
[17:39] * ChanServ sets mode -o IT_Sean
[17:39] <Jaseman> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fellowes-Card-Reader-Mouse-optical/dp/B0000DZFJO
[17:39] <AnotherBot> Fellowes Card Reader Mouse - Mouse - optical - 3 button(s) - wired: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
[17:39] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[17:39] * moog (~moog@240.81-166-243.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:40] * Caver begs someone to muzzle that bot
[17:40] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:40] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] <Jaseman> you could use that mouse to save another usb port
[17:40] <Jaseman> if you wanted to add a second sd card
[17:41] <mrdragons> I personally find that bot to be very useful
[17:41] <traeak> ughski
[17:41] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0035FVL4G <- with a bit of luck that will work with the rpi
[17:41] <AnotherBot> Lm Technologies 802.11N 150Mbps Fast Wireless NANO USB Adapter, Compatible with Windows XP / Vista / Mac 10.4 and 10.5 / Linux Ubuntu 8.04 (3cm Long): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
[17:41] <mrdragons> I like knowing what the link is before clicking on it. :P
[17:42] <RaTTuS|BIG> I've got a couple and it works fine on linux [x86 mind you]
[17:42] <hamitron> mrdragons, yeh :)
[17:43] <ReggieUK> you could build your own spi based laser mouse with one of these:
[17:43] <ReggieUK> http://uk.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=H5cOD6AgtOP2jazikToo1A%3D%3D
[17:43] <AnotherBot> ADNS-7550 Avago Technologies Encoders
[17:43] <ReggieUK> http://www.ccsinfo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45849
[17:43] <AnotherBot> CCS :: View topic - Laser mouse sensor driver
[17:43] <Caver> hrm ... seems to need a binary blob
[17:44] <ukscone> who owns anotherbot?
[17:44] * AnotherBot was kicked from #raspberrypi by IT_Sean
[17:44] <mrdragons> ukscone: MystX
[17:44] <ukscone> ok
[17:44] <ReggieUK> ukscone, well done dude :)
[17:44] <Caver> :)
[17:44] <ukscone> ReggieUK: you mean well done IT_Sean
[17:44] <IT_Sean> aye, that one was my punt. :p
[17:45] <ReggieUK> whoops, yes, of course I meant IT_Sean, and well done to you sir for giving him ops :)
[17:46] <Jaseman> a new post on the website
[17:46] <Jaseman> about time
[17:46] <ReggieUK> what's about time?
[17:46] <ReggieUK> you do realise that they've all got day jobs don't you?
[17:47] <Caver> Jaseman, what new post?
[17:47] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) has left #raspberrypi
[17:47] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-149-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:48] <Jaseman> Livecoding with Qt5
[17:49] <Caver> :) I watched it last night - defo quite cool
[17:50] * ChanServ sets mode +o ShiftPlusOne
[17:50] <traeak> oh no, not qt5
[17:50] <traeak> has it gone on a diet yet?
[17:50] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit ()
[17:50] * ChanServ sets mode -o ShiftPlusOne
[17:51] <traeak> changed over to utf8, dropped their collections in favor of libstdc++ ?
[17:51] <RaTTuS|BIG> ooh nearly pub time
[17:53] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:53] <Caver> traeak: ick no UTF-8 support in this day and age?
[17:54] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:54] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:56] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:56] <traeak> Caver: qt defaults to the utf16 abomination
[17:57] <traeak> Caver: they wanted the worst of both worlds apparently and they said they will not change
[17:57] <Caver> ahh
[17:57] <traeak> they used to be latin1 in the real old days
[17:57] <Caver> yup we has a look at utf-16 a while ago and ick ick ick ... utf8 is a lot nicer, just in storage terms
[17:57] <rm> is that not even UCS-2?
[17:58] <rm> afaik UTF-16 is not even fixed width
[17:58] <traeak> prnting strings in a standard debugger isn't tolerable
[17:58] <jzu> it's Unicode 4.0
[17:58] <traeak> rm: yeah, utf16 hogs ram and is variable length
[17:58] <rm> UCS-2 is a fixed width 2-byte encoding that e.g. Java uses
[17:58] <rm> and afaik the Windows API
[17:58] <traeak> maybe it is ucs02, can' t say
[17:59] <Jaseman> wish i knew what the hell you were talking about
[17:59] <traeak> jsut mad about the debugger stuff, one of many things that pissed me off about qt
[17:59] * gabriel9 (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:59] <rm> ??????????????????????????????
[17:59] <traeak> as i've mentioned here before we own the first 2 licenses troll tech ever sold
[17:59] <Caver> we use utf-8 and put up with the variable length hastles
[17:59] <Caver> it's all a trade off
[17:59] <traeak> Caver: well it's sane
[17:59] <traeak> Caver: the way to deal with that is to use translation files
[17:59] <traeak> work in latin1 with everything
[17:59] * ShiftPlusOne gives channel operator status to sightlight
[17:59] <traeak> for strings
[18:00] <traeak> and use translation files to get loaded into non utf8
[18:00] <traeak> good for filling up guis, etc
[18:00] <traeak> i mean non latin1
[18:00] <Caver> well 90% of what we do is python, so don't have to worry about the very low level bits too much
[18:00] <Caver> 'thing' becomes u'thing' ..
[18:00] <rm> the video is montaged
[18:00] <rm> they aren't even recompiling
[18:00] <rm> although seemingly writing in some sort of C
[18:00] <Jaseman> i think ill stick with python
[18:01] <Jaseman> its about my level of geekiness
[18:01] <jzu> ok, but wich graphic lib then?
[18:01] <jzu> s/wich/which/
[18:01] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:01] <Jaseman> pygame
[18:02] <rm> and also "running on the $25 computer" is a lie
[18:02] <rm> are there even any model As made?
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> Someone may have sold their ebay one.
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:03] <rm> ebay ones are model B
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:03] <rm> aka "the $35 computer"
[18:04] <Jaseman> might be worth waiting to save the $10
[18:04] * CustomTronics (~mjtessmer@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:04] <rm> it's not
[18:04] <jzu> model A would work as well, I think
[18:04] <Jaseman> so model a....
[18:04] <Jaseman> has 1 usb port
[18:04] <Jaseman> is that right?
[18:05] <Jaseman> and no network port
[18:05] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes
[18:05] <mrdragons> Yep
[18:05] <rm> also I wish this had at least SOME sound
[18:05] <rm> even a geeky guy mumbling about his code
[18:05] <mrdragons> Wait what?
[18:05] <rm> not to mention maybe some good ambient track from jamendo
[18:05] <mrdragons> Oh, the live coding video? Yeah
[18:05] <Jaseman> can you get usb network port?
[18:05] <mrdragons> Yep
[18:06] <Jaseman> so if you got a model a and a usb hub
[18:06] <rm> if you think how much you get for $10, the model A stops making sense quickly
[18:06] <mrdragons> It'd cost just as much as a model B!
[18:06] <Jaseman> you could add network port
[18:06] <hamitron> but more usb ports at the end ;)
[18:06] <rm> don't forget +128 MB RAM
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> rm: Unless you want 20 of them
[18:07] <mrdragons> I plan to buy a couple model As actually, I hope they're still going to make them...
[18:07] <Jaseman> it depends what you want to do on it
[18:07] <hamitron> model A is smaller, so better for embedded projects?
[18:07] <jzu> rm: in third-world/emerging countries,it can really make a difference
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> hamitron: some, yes.
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> hamitron: Or for example light switches.
[18:07] <Jaseman> if you only need wireless network...
[18:07] <Jaseman> the netport is a bit useless
[18:07] <hamitron> Jaseman, take it off?
[18:07] <hamitron> ;)
[18:07] <rm> RAM RAM RAM RAM
[18:07] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-nxtjfwhujuqkumys) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> 128M RAM is quite adequate.
[18:08] <mrdragons> hamitron: Somewhat, yeah, like intelligent RC planes and such
[18:08] <rm> in only a very specified application you'll get by with 128 MB - GPU
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> For much.
[18:08] <jzu> ok, if you have less ram, you code more efficiently :-)
[18:08] <rm> a very specialized*
[18:08] <hamitron> mrdragons, or a boat as someone wanted
[18:08] <hamitron> :)
[18:08] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-crnftczxcahauugy) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:08] <mrdragons> rm: Lies.
[18:08] <Jaseman> it will still run nano
[18:08] <Jaseman> on 128 or 256
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bifferos.com/
[18:08] <hamitron> 128Mb ram is loads
[18:09] <hamitron> :/
[18:09] <Jaseman> what more do you need than the humble text editor?
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> For example is one alternative that I was considering for projects earlier
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> It has 32M ram.
[18:09] <Caver> well I know the frambuffer can grab quite a bit, so if it's running headless that might be ok
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> Which was plenty
[18:09] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:09] <rm> sorry, I'm thinking a GUI desktop
[18:09] <Caver> 64Mb tends to start getting a bit tight!
[18:09] <mrdragons> I want to get a usable desktop running in ~32mb of ram then provide an image of it, just to prove a point.
[18:09] <jzu> I used to code in Turbo-Pascal/MS-DOS for bank - 100000 lines in 300 KB RAM
[18:09] <jzu> no fancy graphics tho
[18:09] <hamitron> omg, how much is the biffer board?
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> hamitron: 35 quid
[18:10] <hamitron> I may get that instead
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> $58?
[18:10] * NIN101 (~NIN@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:10] <hamitron> I missed the price with excitement
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> It's x86 too, so you can run windows.
[18:10] <hamitron> ;)
[18:10] <rm> rrrrrrright
[18:10] * SpeedEvil giggles insanely.
[18:10] <hamitron> well, x86 means no seperate cross compiling
[18:11] <Caver> jzu, I'm sure you did, but in a 32bit os?
[18:11] <rm> if you're okay with 32 MB of RAM, get the TP-Link pocket 3G router
[18:11] <Jaseman> its ??35
[18:11] <victhor> does that thing have any sort of general purpose IO? I didn't see any headers inside
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> victhor: the one on the side is it
[18:12] <rm> the router is $23
[18:12] <victhor> the USB port?
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> 2 GPIO free, you can free another 3
[18:12] <jzu> hamitron: arm means no cross-compiling
[18:12] <victhor> cool, does it have a serial port too?
[18:12] <rm> speaking of which, is there any cheap simple USB to GPIO dongles?
[18:12] <hamitron> rm, won't be x86 will it?
[18:12] <victhor> most routers I've seen have serial ports
[18:12] <zgreg> rm: ucs-2 is fixed width, but it cannot encode all unicode codepoints, only the basic multilingual plane
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> rm: emay to some degree
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> ebay
[18:12] <hamitron> jzu, how?
[18:12] <jzu> Caver: like I said, no fancy graphics
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> usb gpio
[18:12] <mrdragons> rm: You need to lurk the archlinux forums a bit. People get their (gui desktop) setups into rediculously low ram. It's definitely possible.
[18:13] <jzu> hamitron: well, I compiled my own stuff on the NSLU2, I epect to do the same on the RPi
[18:13] <jzu> expect*
[18:13] <rm> jzu, kernel too?
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> I've had X/shell/WM/browser running from one 1.44M floppy, on an 8M machine, with networking.
[18:13] <jzu> no, didn't try
[18:13] <zgreg> mrdragons: but it all falls apart if you start using actual applications
[18:13] * CustomTronics (~mjtessmer@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:13] <victhor> use window maker... doesn't look that bad and has low memory usage
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> Needless to say, this was some time ago.
[18:13] <victhor> alternatively *box
[18:14] <Caver> I bet
[18:14] <mrdragons> zgreg: How so?
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> And the browser was a cut-down lynx.
[18:14] * jzu (~jzu@ Quit (Quit: Kick out the jams, motherfuckers!)
[18:14] <Caver> yeah well we all used to have 386's with 4Mb of ram
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> I had a 2M system. It wasn't fun.
[18:14] <Caver> yup!
[18:15] <mrdragons> But it's possible, and this is a 128mb system
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> Oh - quite.
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> FF1.5 will run quite happily on 128M
[18:16] <Jaseman> how much ram did the amiga 500 have?
[18:16] <zgreg> mrdragons: the memory consumed by the DE quickly becomes irrelevant if you use applications, like a web browser
[18:16] <Jaseman> 512mb wasnt it?
[18:16] <Caver> I'm trying to remember the min ram for XP was/is 32Mb?
[18:16] <hamitron> Caver, 128Mb
[18:17] <hamitron> was 128Mb
[18:17] <hamitron> ;/
[18:17] <mrdragons> zgreg: Yes, if you try and run your standard bloated desktop apps
[18:17] <RaTTuS|BIG> 64 128 recomended
[18:17] <victhor> XP 128 MB was unusable
[18:17] <Jaseman> what about win 98?
[18:17] <victhor> I think I had it running on 64 but I'm not sure.
[18:17] <victhor> stock XP even
[18:17] <RaTTuS|BIG> 16 / 24
[18:17] <zgreg> mrdragons: well, web browsers are always "bloated" becaue websites are nowadays
[18:17] <RaTTuS|BIG> 16 / 24 for W98
[18:17] <hamitron> win98 runs nice on 16mb
[18:17] <Aquilus_> I've done Windows 7 on 512MB
[18:17] <amazoph> victhor: must have been using the pagefile like mad with that setup on xp.
[18:17] <Jaseman> i think we used to run win 98 on 8 mb
[18:17] <Aquilus_> Should be able to strip it down a lot more though.
[18:17] <victhor> it didn't even work properly
[18:17] <amazoph> win 95/98 are quite a bit more efficient
[18:18] <mrdragons> zgreg: Not quite, firefox is a mess compared to something like midori
[18:18] <zgreg> mrdragons: or do you want to use a crippled browser without javascript and css? :)
[18:18] <amazoph> even if they like to crash due to poorly written drivers
[18:18] <Caver> ah yes have to go back to win2k to get down to 32Mb!
[18:18] <hamitron> win95 can be cut down to 4mb ram
[18:18] <hamitron> ;)
[18:18] <victhor> I added a 128 MB stick (thus 192 MB of RAM) and it worked a little bit better
[18:18] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kyo6gstOTD1qzgsi8o1_500.jpg <- awesome clock
[18:18] <Aquilus_> Windows 3.1 is where it's at.
[18:18] <Jaseman> well lets just all go back to 3.11 for workgroups
[18:18] <amazoph> hamitron: tempted to stick win95 in dosbox and try that
[18:18] <Caver> *screms*
[18:18] <Caver> well yes you did have the advantage of faster rebooting
[18:18] <hamitron> amazoph, there is a tutorial online to cut it all out
[18:18] <Caver> which you'd be doing a lot
[18:18] <amazoph> i believe most virtualisation programs don't let you set memory below 32mb of ram
[18:18] <RaTTuS|BIG> os/2
[18:19] <rm> expect Windows 95 in QEMU on rPi :)
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> Another use for my pi - http://www.mauve.plus.com/rattus.jpg - RaTTuS|BIG reminded me of. (contains dead rat)
[18:19] <amazoph> rm: that woul have the performance of something from the 1980s D:
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> Sitting with a webcam watching it with motion.
[18:19] <Caver> eew
[18:19] <mrdragons> I really am going to make an image that runs comfortably in 32mb, and is perfectly usable.
[18:20] <Jaseman> problem is you cant get software for win98
[18:20] <Jaseman> i bet you cant run vlc player on it
[18:20] <Jaseman> or firefox
[18:20] <rm> mrdragons, you can't, unless you use software from 1992
[18:20] <hamitron> vlc supports win98
[18:20] <amazoph> as an aside, i remember trying to unload DOS drivers on a system, to free up memory below 640k in order to run games.
[18:20] <hamitron> not firefox
[18:20] <mrdragons> rm: Hah.
[18:20] <hamitron> :/
[18:20] <rm> try with modern Xorg and modern Midori
[18:20] <rm> unlikely to be possible
[18:20] <amazoph> lack of high memory support in certain very old games: :|
[18:21] <Aquilus_> Sounds more realistic to get an ARM version of Windows 8 working, tbh.
[18:21] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:21] <mrdragons> I'm going to do it partly just to laugh when I do.
[18:21] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:21] <Jaseman> i think some websites wouldnt like the old internet explorer
[18:21] <Aquilus_> I suspect that has to be fairly light.
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> rm: I have several old slackware DVDs.
[18:21] <hamitron> dosbox would be easier
[18:21] <rm> using old software is not a solution
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> rm: Sure it is - for some things.
[18:21] <ukscone> IT_Sean: & ShiftPlusOne i just pm'ed you
[18:21] <rm> it's got security holes and just not pleasant to use
[18:21] <Caver> dosbox in full emulation mode is a possible
[18:21] <hamitron> for games I mean
[18:21] <hamitron> :)
[18:21] <amazoph> Jaseman: anything below ie6 is pretty much unusable on the modern web
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> rm: For many systems, the pi will be airgapped.
[18:22] <amazoph> and even ie6 is iffy
[18:22] <rm> and also... so you just recompile all those Slackware packages for ARM?
[18:22] <rm> good luck :D
[18:22] <Jaseman> theres enough boffins to rewrite software
[18:22] <amazoph> i've had the pain of trying to download firefox 2.x onto a system, with ie 2.0
[18:22] <Jaseman> so that it runs smoothly on the pi
[18:22] <hamitron> I'm hoping we get some lighter software for x86 comps, because of the pi
[18:22] <hamitron> :)
[18:22] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: night all)
[18:22] <rm> there's a lot of simple light software
[18:23] <hamitron> pi will be an education and target
[18:23] <Jaseman> i guess you can play mp3s
[18:23] <Jaseman> on win98
[18:23] <rm> see http://wiki.xfce.org/recommendedapps
[18:23] <Jaseman> if nothing else
[18:23] <Jaseman> some older movie formats
[18:23] <hamitron> win98 supports most media
[18:23] <hamitron> ;/
[18:23] <Jaseman> divx?
[18:24] <mrdragons> xfce is psuedo-lightweight.
[18:24] <mrdragons> Although that's not a bad collection of programs
[18:24] <amazoph> mrdragons: yeah. there are some tiling window managers which are much tinier.
[18:24] <hamitron> Jaseman, yep
[18:24] <mrdragons> Awesome ftw. :P
[18:25] <rm> I happen to like windows-98 paradigm of the interface
[18:25] <Jaseman> windows 98 boots SO fast on a recent machine
[18:25] <rm> i.e. the 'start' menu, some quick launch buttons, taskbar and tray with clock
[18:25] <rm> all at the bottom of the screen
[18:25] <rm> xfce provides that perfectly
[18:25] <hamitron> winME cut down, running the win95 shell ftw :)
[18:25] <Jaseman> thats if it doesnt blue screen during the install
[18:25] <Jaseman> some of the newer pc's wont even take 98
[18:25] <hamitron> I not tried KernelEx
[18:26] <rm> and I am not going to learn some weird tiling manager just to save ram
[18:26] <rm> LXDE is lighter than Xfce, but it's less convenient to configure and use in some apects
[18:26] <rm> aspects*
[18:27] <mrdragons> Why not just use openbox?
[18:27] <hamitron> or Enlightment?
[18:28] <rm> mrdragons, let me ask an unrelated question, is openboxs configured solely via editing a text config file?
[18:28] <rm> openbox*
[18:28] * SpeedEvil imagines a system booting linux/wine
[18:28] <mrdragons> Oh, I forgot about enlightenment. That's a good one.
[18:28] <mrdragons> rm: Yes
[18:28] <RaTTuS|BIG> ok pub time ... I may be some time...
[18:28] <mrdragons> There's a couple files actually
[18:28] <mrdragons> like 3 or 4
[18:28] <rm> hamitron, I used enlightenment a long long time ago, got an impression it was mostly about eye-candy
[18:28] <rm> and about providing tens of themes which look kewl
[18:28] <rm> but are impossible to actually use
[18:28] <hamitron> rm, it is, I don't use it..... just see people here expect more ;)
[18:28] <rm> because of black-on-dark-gray text or some other dumb crap
[18:29] <rm> but the backgrounds are all textured and brushed metal!
[18:29] <hamitron> it can be made to work
[18:29] <rm> or whatever
[18:29] <Jaseman> can you use a mouse pointer in a text only terminal environment?
[18:29] <hamitron> I tried a livecd with it, in a useable distro
[18:29] <rm> mrdragons, so that's not how I prefer to configure my GUIs
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: you can configure it in some programs
[18:30] <hamitron> Jaseman, yes
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: and you can copy/paste text
[18:30] <mrdragons> rm: Well there's also obconf if you're into GUIs
[18:30] <Jaseman> so you could devise some pull down menus and stuff
[18:30] <Jaseman> in a text screen
[18:30] <hamitron> yes
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: programs like midnight commander have full menus that work using the mouse in a terminal
[18:31] <hamitron> bbl, food
[18:31] <hamitron> :)
[18:31] <Jaseman> are there any mp3 players that work like that?
[18:31] <Jaseman> command line but with some mouse features
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: not using the mouse I think
[18:31] <mrdragons> I think nvlc has that
[18:31] <slaeshjag> Why do you need mouse features?
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: lots of command-line music players that don't use the mouse at all
[18:32] <Jaseman> i just like to browse for files
[18:32] <Jaseman> rather than type the name of it
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: you can browse lists using the keyboard :)
[18:32] <slaeshjag> you can do that without a mouse pointer
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> also, <tab> completion is your friend
[18:32] <mrdragons> ^^+1
[18:32] <Jaseman> yeah i know but its somehow not as nice as using mouse
[18:32] <mrdragons> I have my entire music collection organized to be cli-friendly
[18:33] * Jmirc (~Jmirc@host068-021.kpn-gprs.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:33] * imnichol (~ian@somsen-128-103.winona.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:33] <Jaseman> mine is sorted into alphabetical folders on artist
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: depends on how you organize it really
[18:33] <Jaseman> then album as subfolder
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: if you install "mpd" (music player daemon)< you can connect with any (network or local) client you like
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: like "ncmpc": http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Client:Ncmpc
[18:34] * Jmirc (~Jmirc@host068-021.kpn-gprs.nl) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:34] <slaeshjag> mocp is also good, but for remote controlling, you need to ssh into the box running it
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: and there's http://pms.sourceforge.net/
[18:34] <Jaseman> i like the idea of having a raspi purely as a music player
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: (also an mpd client for text mode)
[18:34] <Jaseman> audio only
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: or maybe http://cmus.sourceforge.net/
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> that's not an mpd client, but it's standalone
[18:36] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: check out those links - there's lots of choice :)
[18:36] <Jaseman> ok thanks
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> Jaseman: (all of these are available in Debian at least)
[18:37] <slaeshjag> mpd is a bit of a hassle to set up iirc
[18:37] <mrdragons> Yeah
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> slaeshjag: it's not really.. just point it at a directory and you're done
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> in my experience
[18:37] <slaeshjag> moc and cmus are both just run-it-and-it-starts-doing-stuff
[18:37] <slaeshjag> MartijnVdS: I might be misremembering, was about 3 years ago that I used mpd :)
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> slaeshjag: longer for me, but it was 'apt-get install', edit some file in /etc, restart daemon, \o/
[18:39] <slaeshjag> Although I might not have the right to say editing a config file is too much work x]
[18:40] <Jaseman> right im off home now
[18:40] <Jaseman> see you laterz
[18:40] * Jaseman (ca1400a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:41] * ChanServ changes topic to 'currently "unofficial" discussion channel for the RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ the $25 computer -- FAQs: http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=8 -- Wiki & Specs: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard -- logs available at http://srv.datagutt1.com/ Bot AUP http://russelldavis.org/RaspberryPi/rpi_bot_aup.txt -- More fun than a spreadsheet, Tastier than chocolate dipped bacon'
[18:42] <ukscone> ok as of now there is a Bot AUP for this channel -- all bot owners please read http://russelldavis.org/RaspberryPi/rpi_bot_aup.txt
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> yay!
[18:43] <mrdragons> Sounds good
[18:43] <IT_Sean> And i don't want to hear "but, i didn't read the AUP" 'cause it's in the bloody topic.
[18:44] <Aquilus_> ukscone: A whole fortnight?
[18:44] <ShiftPlusOne> And I don't care much either way! >=/
[18:44] <rm> yay
[18:44] <Aquilus_> That's a long time just to sandbox a bot :p
[18:44] <mrdragons> A fortnight is pretty long though
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> So bots cannot have feature changes without going through another quarantine?
[18:44] <ukscone> i'd like a list of bots currently in this channel so we can go through them and check which ones serve a useful purpose
[18:44] <rm> no other freenode channel i'm on has so much bot bullshit going on
[18:45] <IT_Sean> SpeedEvil: bots cannot have a feature change without the change being approved, at hte very least.
[18:45] <mrdragons> I'm re-writing mine to be a bit more usefull and such, so it'll be a while before it's actually back here
[18:45] <mrdragons> useful*
[18:45] <ukscone> rm it'll get worse :) once the little kiddiewinks get their pi's
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> IT_Sean: That might be done with being specified
[18:45] <IT_Sean> Don't look at me, i'm at work.
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:46] <ukscone> basically i just wanted some rules we can apply equally to all however we can bend them if neccessary
[18:46] <mrdragons> And to think all this bot mess started because of me and feeb. XD
[18:46] <IT_Sean> Listen. The general spirit of the rule is to keep this palce from filling with dozens, or even hundreds of bots
[18:46] <ukscone> but on the whole we will be fair to all
[18:46] <IT_Sean> I can't speek for my fellow staffers, but, as long as a bit flies under the radar, i'm willing to forgive MINOR code adjustments without reapproval.
[18:47] <IT_Sean> *bot
[18:47] <IT_Sean> That said... entire new comamnd sets will need to be reapproved.
[18:47] <ShiftPlusOne> IT_Sean, that's mostly under rule 7.
[18:47] <ukscone> likewise
[18:47] <feep> ukscone: do we have a ?[topic] bot yet?
[18:47] * IT_Sean reserves the right to be a generally irritating wanker and ban your bot if it irritates me and isn't on the approved bot list.
[18:48] <feep> also how long is a fortnight
[18:48] <mrdragons> 2 weeks
[18:48] <feep> o.o
[18:48] <feep> wow
[18:48] <ukscone> so far bots ahve been the only problem but i will put up an AUP for users too -- basically this is a PG13 channel and remember there may be kids in here
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[18:49] <feep> you guys realize that in two weeks, the pis will probably be out, and the entire point of answerbots was to help with the post-release rush?
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> feep: one answerbot with all the answers would be enough in that case
[18:49] <Aquilus_> Run bots off all the 10,000 pis.
[18:49] <feep> MartijnVdS: sweet. um. do we have one yet?
[18:50] <IT_Sean> so, no more discussions involving sheep?
[18:50] <IT_Sean> :p
[18:50] <ShiftPlusOne> =(
[18:50] <feep> I mean I don't want to go through the approval process for answerbot if there's already one around
[18:51] <mrdragons> Hmm... I may submit my older version to be approved as well, it answers questions fairly well
[18:51] <mrdragons> Just not a lot of fancy extras
[18:51] <ukscone> feep: we can bend the rules if neccessary or we wish too but rule 5 applies
[18:51] <IT_Sean> put it in the bot channel for starts. All bots have to be run in there for a bit first.
[18:51] <feep> kay
[18:52] <IT_Sean> I will be making myself available in the bot channel in the evenings and on weekends (remember, im in US EST) to answer any bot AUP related questions
[18:52] <mrdragons> Cool
[18:53] <IT_Sean> No bot will get my approving vite 'till i've seen it in action in the bot channel.
[18:53] <IT_Sean> *vote
[18:54] <Aquilus_> But, more importantly.
[18:54] <Aquilus_> Is it out yet?
[18:54] * PiBot slaps Aquilus_ across the face with a cast iron pan.
[18:54] <Aquilus_> ^Useful bot
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> Aquilus_: that one triggers "Sound over IRC" in my head
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> a real big cartoonish "BOINGGG"
[18:55] <hotwings> theres no need for a bot. just put the pi url in the topic. as it already is
[18:55] <IT_Sean> that is, quite possibly, the MOST useful thing pibot does. :p
[18:56] <Tobias|> Has anybody legitimately asked that question yet?
[18:56] <Tobias|> i.e. not deliberately trying to trigger the bot?
[18:56] <hotwings> a bot to set the topic? O_O
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> IT_Sean: if it could cycle through a few responses, that would be even greater ("Great, every time someone asks it's delayed even more.", "* Pibot puts <user> on the 'do-not-sell-a-pi' list")
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> though that might be overdoing it
[18:58] <hotwings> MartijnVdS - those are just annoying and pointless.. just my opinion, youre welcome to your own
[18:58] <ukscone> oh forgot one rule for the aup but probably already covered
[18:58] <ukscone> no bot will get ops privs EVER!!!!!!!!!
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> hotwings: like I said.. overdoing it
[18:58] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[18:58] <ShiftPlusOne> I think that's a given
[18:58] <ukscone> ok :)
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> ShiftPlusOne: You've never met bot writers have you :P
[18:58] <hotwings> bots that spam the channel at all should be kill -SIGTERMTOHELL
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> ShiftPlusOne: "My bot needs network-oper status!!!!"
[18:58] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[18:59] <hotwings> unless theyre for pre announces :]
[18:59] <slaeshjag> MartijnVdS: Well, on other networks without services like ChanServ, there's actually some usage for them
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> slaeshjag: sure but not often, and not written by skr1pt k1dd13z
[18:59] <slaeshjag> MartijnVdS: That's true though :)
[19:00] <hotwings> dont underestimate script kiddies.. they make some pretty useful stuff
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> hotwings: botnets, ...
[19:01] <mrdragons> MartinjnVds: Hey, hey, watch your blows. I'm not a skid.
[19:01] * ChanServ changes topic to '"unofficial" discussion channel for the RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ the $25 computer -- FAQs: http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=8 -- Wiki & Specs: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard -- logs available at http://srv.datagutt1.com/ -- This is a PG13 channel. Please remember there maybe kids in here -- More fun than a spreadsheet, Tastier than chocolate dipped bacon'
[19:01] <ukscone> how do you colour/bold text in a topic?
[19:02] <slaeshjag> Depens on your IRC client I guess
[19:02] <ukscone> ok so nothing generic then that will always be bolded/coloured
[19:02] <ukscone> ok well it's in the topic so we can point to it if we have to
[19:02] <slaeshjag> Well, the color codes are kinda standard, but the way you insert them isn't
[19:03] <Tobias|> Most clients allow ctrl + k, followed by a number
[19:03] <ukscone> everyone ok with the channel changes?
[19:03] <slaeshjag> Tobias|: Some clients use ctrl-c and ctrl-v
[19:03] <IT_Sean> Also, everyones clients may interperet them differently
[19:04] <ukscone> not that i care as they are staying but do want a facsimile of democracy :)
[19:04] <Tobias|> I have no idea what changed :3
[19:05] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[19:05] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:06] <feep> ops: I nominate an advisory rule: all bots' names must end in "bot". No bots must honour commands from users whose names end in "bot".
[19:06] * imnichol (~ian@somsen-128-103.winona.edu) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:06] <feep> may*
[19:06] <feep> defense in depth :p
[19:06] <IT_Sean> that's actually not a bad suggestion, IMO. This whole thing is an ongoing process. Adjustments may be made in the future :p
[19:06] <IT_Sean> But, i do like that idea
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> Bots may not join channel if they are not called *bot
[19:06] * ChanServ sets mode +o ukscone
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> That is - they must check their nick
[19:08] * ChanServ changes topic to '"unofficial" discussion channel for the RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ the $25 computer -- FAQs: http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=8 -- Wiki & Specs: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard -- logs available at http://srv.datagutt1.com/ -- Bot AUP http://russelldavis.org/RaspberryPi/rpi_bot_aup.txt -- This is a PG13 channel. Please remember there maybe kids in here -- More fun than'
[19:08] <ukscone> ok that's better
[19:08] <Aquilus_> Isn't it too long?
[19:08] <feep> no it's not
[19:08] <ukscone> ugh
[19:08] <feep> it gets cut off after "More fun than"
[19:08] <Aquilus_> More fun than what, exactly?
[19:08] <feep> more fun than "
[19:08] <IT_Sean> ... a spreadsheet. It's an old joke.
[19:08] <IT_Sean> we can remove that bit, i think
[19:08] <feep> silly person. " is not a spreadsheet
[19:08] <feep> it is a punctuation mark used to mark the start and end of quotes :D
[19:09] <mrdragons> More fun than the entire eternity left of this IRC room.
[19:09] * ChanServ changes topic to '"unofficial" discussion channel for the RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ the $25 computer -- FAQs: http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=8 -- Wiki & Specs: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard -- logs available at http://srv.datagutt1.com/ -- Bot AUP http://russelldavis.org/RaspberryPi/rpi_bot_aup.txt -- This is a PG13 channel. Please remember there maybe kids in here.'
[19:09] * stereohead is now known as stereohead-away
[19:09] <ukscone> :( had to lose some text :(
[19:10] <ukscone> url shortener maybe?
[19:10] <feep> bit.ly
[19:10] <Dagger2> tinyurl the AUP link... and stick the space in the "may be"
[19:10] <feep> that or they're
[19:10] <feep> technically :D
[19:11] <mrdragons> bit.ly is a bit better imo
[19:11] <feep> shorter :D
[19:12] <feep> hey can I get the time that answerbot's been in here already counted towards the two-week period?
[19:12] <feep> because two weeks is loong :D
[19:12] <Dagger2> if you're intending to run the bot for the next year or more, two weeks is nothing
[19:13] <IT_Sean> what does answerbot do?
[19:13] <feep> yeah but I was kinda hoping to be here for release :/
[19:13] <feep> IT_Sean: answer predefined queries when you do ?keyword
[19:13] <IT_Sean> ?raspi
[19:13] <IT_Sean> ?menu
[19:13] <feep> it's .. in -bots
[19:13] <IT_Sean> oooh
[19:13] <feep> as per aup
[19:13] <IT_Sean> :p
[19:13] <feep> :p
[19:14] <IT_Sean> feep: i will ahve a look at it tonight, if i remember. We may be able to fast track it /slightly/ on the basis that it has been running for a while. sound fair?
[19:14] * ChanServ changes topic to '"unofficial" discussion channel for the RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ the $25 computer -- FAQs: http://goo.gl/zny3G -- Wiki & Specs: http://goo.gl/xLrO7 -- logs available at http://srv.datagutt1.com/ -- Bot AUP http://goo.gl/71h0e -- This is a PG13 channel. Please remember there may be kids in here. -- More fun than a speadsheet, Tastier than chocolate dipped bacon'
[19:14] <feep> IT_Sean: sweet, thanks
[19:14] <feep> wow we have a process now
[19:14] <ukscone> ok everyone ok with the sopic?
[19:14] <IT_Sean> I am.
[19:14] <feep> problem is that right now it lets anybody define keywords .. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or if I should implement write rights
[19:15] <feep> the trolls generally don't stick around long enough to learn the syntax
[19:15] <feep> (we have a similar bot in #d)
[19:15] <IT_Sean> I would feel better if it had write rights
[19:20] <mrdragons> <cough> like this one other bot that lurks around here </uncough>
[19:20] <mrdragons> :P
[19:21] <IT_Sean> what other bot?
[19:21] <mrdragons> Mah bot
[19:21] <mrdragons> You hated it
[19:23] <IT_Sean> what was it CALLED.
[19:25] <ShiftPlusOne> IT_Sean, I think if people mess with bot answer definitions, it's the person doing it's the griefer at fault, not the bot.
[19:27] <mrdragons> IT_Sean: Dragonbot
[19:28] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) Quit (*.net *.split)
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[19:28] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
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[19:28] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
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[19:28] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:28] <mrdragons> Oh wait, no, it was talkbot for a while
[19:28] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:28] * stereohead-away (~stereohea@fiber-087-195-245-144.solcon.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:28] * stereohead-away is now known as stereohead
[19:28] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@firewall-a.buf.ny.i-evolve.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:28] <haltdef> so, python coming along nicely
[19:29] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:29] * flexd (~flexd@dev.flexd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:29] <mrdragons> I'm not a skid. >_>
[19:29] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@firewall-a.buf.ny.i-evolve.net) Quit (Changing host)
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[19:45] * krake (~krake@p508595CD.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:02] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@c83-181-13-245.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:06] <OneFix_Work> anyone have a list of what codecs the broadcom chip will decode?
[20:07] <OneFix_Work> I know H264 is one of the codecs it can encode/decode
[20:08] * koaschten_ (~koaschten@tmo-111-52.customers.d1-online.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:11] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-0-231-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:11] <hotwings> i think thats it
[20:12] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-0-231-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:13] <MartijnVdS> At least.
[20:13] <hotwings> the spec sheet for that series doesnt list more than h264
[20:14] <OneFix_Work> hotwings: But, there are supposedly codecs for mpeg4, wmv, wma, aac, and mp3 built into it as well
[20:15] <OneFix_Work> hotwings: But h264 may be the only codec accessible because of licensing issues.
[20:15] * hamitron wonders why the obsession with video
[20:15] <hotwings> i havent seen anything of that nature from any credible sources
[20:15] <hotwings> hamitron - simple.. cheap media player of course!
[20:16] <hotwings> for home theater purposes, car theater, etc
[20:16] <hamitron> there are media players on the market, with a case for the same price
[20:16] <mrdragons> I'm personally impressed they could get 44.1khz sample rate.
[20:16] <mrdragons> For audio, of course
[20:16] <haltdef> yea, anything other than h.264 is unknown at this point
[20:16] <OneFix_Work> hamitron: You could run it as a small subsonic server then...
[20:16] <haltdef> also interlaced
[20:16] <hamitron> but I mean, video is over rated in everything
[20:16] <hotwings> hamitron - url please
[20:16] <OneFix_Work> hamitron: You could also potentially use it for ZoneMinder as well
[20:17] <hotwings> video is overrated? in what way (lol)
[20:17] <hamitron> people who want to list "top 10" of something, seem to have to put it in a video stream
[20:17] <hamitron> a text list would do the job as well, most of the time
[20:17] <OneFix_Work> dunno how much the video decoder will help with ZM though
[20:17] <hotwings> take a look around you.. everything is about content playback these days
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> There is no video decoder as such
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> there is a 'DSP' that is passed a binary blob
[20:18] <hotwings> why do you think tablets are so popular?
[20:18] <hamitron> hotwings, exactly, and nothing gained.... other than a huge download
[20:18] <haltdef> I don't know why tablets are so popular
[20:18] <OneFix_Work> Well, specifically, video seems to be a processor intensive thing...unless you have a built-in hardware encoder/decoder
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> I have a very non-worksafe link as to why tablets are so popular, but I can't link it here.
[20:18] <mrdragons> Sure you could
[20:18] <haltdef> I have an android phone, why on earth would I want a bigger android phone as well
[20:18] <haltdef> that can't make calls
[20:18] <haltdef> that isn't pocketable
[20:18] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> mrdragons: I probably shouldn't - I mean - with kids and all.
[20:19] <hamitron> if I could get a tablet that worked as a phone, cheap, I would
[20:19] <hamitron> :)
[20:19] <hamitron> SpeedEvil, in pm?
[20:19] <hamitron> :D
[20:19] <hotwings> i have no interest/use for a tablet
[20:20] <hamitron> hehe
[20:20] <haltdef> I have a kinda tablet somewhere, 900mhz celeron with 2GB ram and the slowest hdd known to man
[20:20] <haltdef> 7" WVGA resistive :P
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> The tablet FF is useful for basic web-browsing, and ebook reading
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> Once you start wanting to type on it, or use a mouse, or ...
[20:21] <hotwings> i do, however, have use for a $35 media player if it can handle up to 1080p + 7.1 surround + ethernet + at least 1 usb in
[20:21] <haltdef> I used it at work for video watching, light browsing, light irc .. it was surprisingl pleasant to use
[20:22] <hamitron> them addon keyboard folder things look cool
[20:22] <hamitron> or I like the look of that ASUS transforming thing
[20:22] <hamitron> :)
[20:22] * DexterLB (~angel@79-100-22-201.btc-net.bg) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:23] <hamitron> but it has to drop to ?120
[20:23] <hamitron> :/
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> I ahve one of these:
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.radio-now.co.uk/pure_oasis_weatherproof_DAB_digital_radio_portable.html
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> WAterproof DAB radio
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> I want a DAB USB module, so I can pi it.
[20:23] <hamitron> DAB signal sucks around here :/
[20:23] <OneFix_Work> Anyone else afraid this might kill the Arduino community?
[20:24] <hamitron> no
[20:24] <rm> survival of the fittest
[20:24] <rm> but it won't
[20:24] <rm> it might beat some sanity into some of the Arduino prices though
[20:24] <hamitron> rpi, arduino, fpga..... in that order
[20:24] <rm> no way an MC board should cost $18 or whatever
[20:24] <haltdef> never understood what arduino is :/
[20:24] <mrdragons> Nah, arduino is a good bit different from the pi
[20:24] <IT_Sean> Two comppletly seperate segments. Arduinos are for nerds with too much money. Raspis are for geeks with sense, and for the educational market.
[20:25] <hamitron> arduino only cost ?5......
[20:25] <OneFix_Work> rm: Umh, a lot of arduino projects could be done with a simple usb add-on for the Raspberry Pi
[20:25] <mrdragons> Where are you buying your arduinos? 0_o
[20:25] <hamitron> ebay
[20:25] <haltdef> fake
[20:26] <mrdragons> Ebay doesn't count
[20:26] <hamitron> it is an IC
[20:26] <hamitron> ;/
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> arduino - the AVR - can use about two orders of magnitude less power than a Pi.
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> Without trying.
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> Four if you try
[20:27] <OneFix_Work> But, the beauty of the Raspberry Pi is that it gets most of its power from a single chip...
[20:27] <rm> I'd buy on AliExpress or in some other chinese store
[20:27] <rm> but arduino is too expensive for what it is even there
[20:27] <hamitron> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ATMEGA328-ARDUINO-BOOTLOADER-DIL-16MHz-XTAL-22pf-cap-/130635127732?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1e6a75dbb4#ht_1359wt_1185
[20:27] <hamitron> and smaller
[20:27] <hamitron> :)
[20:27] <hamitron> easier to make custom kit
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> It is _HARD_ to make a PCB with a booting linux system on.
[20:27] <OneFix_Work> The Arduino is the same way, but it's a specialized chip and it's not designed to run standard software
[20:28] * DexterLB (~angel@77-85-4-201.btc-net.bg) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> You can put a AVR chip on a bit of stripboard that costs $2, and you can make with tools at home in half an hour.
[20:29] <hamitron> so rpi is introduction to basic computing, arduino is introduction to programmable electronics
[20:29] <hamitron> basically
[20:29] <OneFix_Work> Lets see...I can build a controller with an Arduino and write several thousand lines of Java or I can do it in Perl in half the time, half the cost, and half the amount of code.
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> java?
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> GTFO
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> You're not getting a JVM onto an arduino.
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> C, or asm.
[20:30] <hamitron> you can "compile" something, iirc
[20:31] <hamitron> never used atmel myself, only use altera
[20:31] <hamitron> :/
[20:31] <mrdragons> Lol java on arduino
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> The maximum code side on most AVR class processors is a dozen or two K
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> For some processors 500 words of code is just fine.
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> As they cost $.37
[20:33] <OneFix_Work> SpeedEvil: Yea, but the Arduino boards are nowhere near that cheap...
[20:33] <mrdragons> But microcontrollers are
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> You buy a clone board, use it to ptototype your code, and tehn run it on your own PCB
[20:34] <mrdragons> ^Yeah, arduino is completely open source, so there's a bunch of clone boards availible
[20:34] <hamitron> plus the board is only to make life easier
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> The arduino stack is very limiting in some ways.
[20:34] <OneFix_Work> mrdragons: Yea, but they're still like $60 for a clone board
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> $15 more like
[20:35] <hamitron> you can get the mini one for less
[20:35] <hamitron> :)
[20:36] <hamitron> they both offer something different anyway
[20:36] <hamitron> so can't see the issue
[20:37] <OneFix_Work> hamitron: Then again, the Arduino will only ever be what ever piece of code you are running on it...the Raspberry Pi can handle so much more...
[20:37] <hamitron> it can
[20:37] <hamitron> but it is bigger
[20:37] <hamitron> a comp with an i7 cpu can do more than the rpi too
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: No wia!
[20:37] <IT_Sean>
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> wai
[20:37] <hamitron> hehe
[20:38] <mrdragons> The raspi and arduino are for distinct purposes though. While the gertboard kind of blurs this line, the arduino is still for different things and they're not particularly comparable
[20:39] <OneFix_Work> hamitron: I don't think significantly...not if you are including all of the additional modules needed for ethernet, USB, SD, etc that the Raspberry Pi has...
[20:40] <hamitron> sorry, but a modern x86 cpu will just eat it alive for a lot of stuff
[20:40] <hamitron> the Pi again, has another function
[20:40] <hamitron> lower power, cheaper
[20:40] <hamitron> we all get to pick and choose the device best for the task
[20:40] <OneFix_Work> hamitron: I think we will be surprised at exactly what the processor can do...it's the same processor in a Roku 2...
[20:42] <hamitron> you transcode your dvd on the rpi, I'll stick to a proper comp then ;)
[20:43] <OneFix_Work> I think a lot of makers will jump on it because of the ease of programming
[20:43] <hamitron> indeed
[20:44] * cian1500ww (~cian1500w@insanity.cianmcgovern.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:44] <OneFix_Work> And my point is that I believe a large market for the Arduino is the maker crowd...
[20:44] * IT_Sean intends to use his 1st one (he might get a 2nd one later) as a media center
[20:44] <mrdragons> It's not going to kill it off though
[20:44] <mrdragons> Not by far
[20:44] <hamitron> I'll be using it as a base system for learning about coding for ARM
[20:45] <haltdef> same as for x86? :P
[20:45] <hamitron> different ;/
[20:45] <OneFix_Work> mrdragons: Well, it might not kill it off, but it will be the same place as the Amiga community is today :)
[20:45] <Aquilus_> Speaking of which, I which the Raspberry Pi was cheaper. At 35$ I risk having to pay VAT and fees on it =/
[20:46] <Aquilus_> At 34$, I'd be safe.
[20:46] <Aquilus_> That's just lame.
[20:46] <mrdragons> hamitron: same, I'm going to learn arm assembly on it as well
[20:47] * raxetul (~raxetul@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:47] <hamitron> I've always been lazy with x86 assembly
[20:48] <hamitron> tend to use my comp.... as a comp
[20:48] <hamitron> the rpi will be isolated device to play with
[20:49] <hamitron> the one bad thing about the rpi compared to fpga.... can't modify the cpu
[20:49] <hamitron> :/
[20:50] <hamitron> and not really making "the full thing"
[20:50] <hamitron> but it is like baby steps
[20:50] <hamitron> :)
[20:55] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-crnftczxcahauugy) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:55] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-hotrtrfrqcbvxsif) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:18] * genbattle (~quassel@219-89-36-244.dialup.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[21:28] <RITRedbeard> Jeeeeeeesus.
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> Where?
[21:30] <RITRedbeard> If this release is in anyway similar to Eben's sex life...
[21:30] <mrdragons> Highly anticipated?
[21:30] <IT_Sean> and largly delayerd?
[21:30] <mrdragons> Dunno what you're saying here
[21:30] <IT_Sean> *delayed
[21:30] <IT_Sean> :p
[21:31] <DaQatz> Arm asm is a thing of beauty.
[21:31] <DaQatz> Esp compared to x86
[21:31] <mrdragons> So I've heard
[21:31] <Aquilus_> RITRedbeard: *snigger*
[21:31] <Aquilus_> You said "release".
[21:32] <IT_Sean> easy there... don't get happy on yourself
[21:32] <Aquilus_> Remember the topic :p
[21:32] <RITRedbeard> I'm not sure who you're replying to but since ARM is RISC... well, yes.
[21:32] <slaeshjag> I'd say second only to MIPS, though I haven't sen m68k asm, that's supposed to be awesome
[21:32] <RITRedbeard> MIPS is ok.
[21:33] <traeak> sounds like mips is better regarding throughput per watt over arm
[21:33] <traeak> mips with mali would be interesing
[21:34] <mrdragons> How's the price:performance ratio typically?
[21:34] <slaeshjag> will be interesting to see how low the chinese can make the Loongson go
[21:34] <traeak> not longsoon
[21:34] <traeak> jz4770 etc
[21:34] <RITRedbeard> I dunno, I don't know any anyone with MIPS in the modern day. I learned on dept. built sim.
[21:34] <RITRedbeard> besides PIC
[21:34] <traeak> that "$100" tablet
[21:34] <RITRedbeard> and Longsoon
[21:34] <traeak> jz4770 has vivante gpu and is closer to a9 perofmrnace than a8
[21:37] <rm> and hundreds of router models
[21:37] <rm> literally every router on the market currently is MIPS
[21:37] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[21:38] <RITRedbeard> if home/residental routers are counted, it is worth mentioning their thermal performance is horrible
[21:39] <ShiftPlusOne> Has anyone designed some sort of rechargable battery circuit for the pi which can be charged while being used?
[21:39] <RITRedbeard> ShiftPlusOne, Lithium Ion charging circuit, I would think?
[21:39] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah
[21:39] * timer (~timer@unaffiliated/timer) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:40] <haltdef> sightlight's on the case, don't worry
[21:41] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:41] <ShiftPlusOne> oh good =/
[21:41] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:41] <RITRedbeard> what a fruity hostmask on a fruity IRC server.
[21:45] <IT_Sean> ?
[21:45] <RITRedbeard> ShiftPlusOne, I think most batteries have the circuits on board and charge condition also forwards voltage
[21:46] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[21:46] <RITRedbeard> then if it one of the "smart" batteries with onboard eeprom you communicate to it in something similar to I2C
[21:46] <RITRedbeard> and it will keep track of thermal diode, boots, etc...
[21:46] <RITRedbeard> at least for many laptop batteries
[21:47] <ShiftPlusOne> don't the onboard circuits just to the minimum to keep them from blowing up?
[21:47] <ShiftPlusOne> *do
[21:47] <RITRedbeard> dunno
[21:47] <RITRedbeard> there are dumb charging circuits without that I guess
[21:48] <IT_Sean> Some batteries will have the protection circuit built in, some will not.
[21:48] <IT_Sean> And you do not want to mishandle a LiIon
[21:48] <RITRedbeard> Yeah, but you really don't want to mishandle a lipo.
[21:49] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, I don't think it's just a matter of hooking up 5v to the right terminals and assuming the battery will do the work. You need a proper circuit, I've seen some designs, but I am just wondering if anyone has clobbered up anything pi-specific.
[21:51] <IT_Sean> ^ wot 'e said
[21:51] <RITRedbeard> not that I have seen :(
[21:51] <IT_Sean> Just plugging it into 5v and hoping for the best will cause it to go all asplodey
[21:52] <IT_Sean> you need a liion or lipo charger
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> I refer to http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/rechargeble-batteries-suitable-for-the-rpi/#p34888 - heat
[21:52] <IT_Sean> there are circuits that you can buy that will handle liion or lipo charging (make sure you get the right type) for you, with all the charging & protection built in.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> cheat
[21:53] <IT_Sean> You also do not want to completly depleate it, so you need a cutoff. Which those circuits should also provide
[21:53] <IT_Sean> SpeedEvil: cheat ?
[21:53] <RITRedbeard> I never seen an inline LiPo charger, I wouldn't recommend it.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> IT_Sean: Buy one
[21:53] <RITRedbeard> Charging LiPo is something that should be done outside.
[21:53] <IT_Sean> SpeedEvil: buy one what?
[21:54] <IT_Sean> try speaking in complete sentences :p
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> A USB battery
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> See above
[21:54] <IT_Sean> No thanks. I don't need one.
[21:54] <ShiftPlusOne> SpeedEvil, I have something like that, but I don't think it can provide an output current while being charged. At least mine one can't
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> the above does
[21:54] <IT_Sean> I'll be running my raspi off of mains via a USB PSU
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[21:55] <SpeedEvil> I need to do some proper measurements of charge efficiency.
[21:55] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-hotrtrfrqcbvxsif) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning to do it today, but got sidetracked by lying in bed all day.
[21:56] <haltdef> sound like a student
[21:56] <ShiftPlusOne> SpeedEvil, but I get the impressions that you're someone who knows his shit. Is it hard to design something like that yourself? I am not completly clueless about electronics, but I've never worked with batteries or charging circuits.
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> It's unfortunately annoying.
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> To get it right, flexible, efficient, and easy to put together is quite hard.
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> ^reliable
[21:56] <RITRedbeard> Actually, I believe you can charge Lithium Ion from alkaline batteries.
[21:56] * jmissao (~jmissao@unaffiliated/sundial) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: you need a voltage limit. If it exceeds 4.20V, at best its life is reduced.
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> At worse you get fires if you don't either charge, or limit discharge properly.
[21:59] <ShiftPlusOne> SpeedEvil, wouldn't you use a chip which takes care of all the eficciency for you? http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/21984a.pdf
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> There are some chips like that, yes.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> That's half the battle though.
[22:00] <tntexplosivesltd> morning all
[22:00] <tntexplosivesltd> anything going on?
[22:00] <RITRedbeard> http://www.ladyada.net/learn/lipoly/
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> You now need a companion chip which boosts 3-4.2V to 5V, and cuts off at 3V.
[22:00] <victhor> ShiftPlusOne, you are supposed to use one of those to charge the batteries
[22:00] <ShiftPlusOne> RITRedbeard, I see your ladyada and I raise you eevblog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6mKd5_-abk
[22:00] <victhor> these controllers take care of regulation and charge termination
[22:01] <RITRedbeard> Lady Scamartist?
[22:01] <RITRedbeard> Sorry.
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> In addition, 500mA isn't very much for larger batteries.
[22:01] <RITRedbeard> It is almost as bad as linking to Jizmodo, err Gizmodo
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> It would be nice to be able to charge in a couple of hours.
[22:02] <victhor> why not use another power supply instead?
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> You can do it, but it's generally at least 3 chips, some passives, and an actual PCB - you can't hack it together.
[22:03] <ShiftPlusOne> I guess I should just watch the video I just linked
[22:03] <victhor> to run the system while the battery charges wire it in series with the battery
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> victhor: it's not that simple
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> victhor: If you do that, you tend to screw up charge state detection
[22:04] <victhor> problem is that you can't draw more current than the charging current limit
[22:04] <victhor> and you won't get proper charge termination
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> Which means you carry on floating the battery at the charge voltage, and does at best nasty things to its life
[22:05] <tntexplosivesltd> normally when you charge the battery you run off the system providing the power for charging
[22:05] <tntexplosivesltd> so the battery is "isolated"
[22:05] <victhor> you can get chargers that have separate power outputs for the battery and system
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> That raises issues if you want to charge off USB, because you need to limit the current to 500mA
[22:06] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, true
[22:06] <izua> isn't that usually limited by the charged device?
[22:07] * Neon22 (~neon22@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:07] <izua> and if D+ and D- are shorted, the device will disable the limit and suck as much power as there is available?
[22:07] <ShiftPlusOne> some devices will try to draw over 500
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> If you plug an unlimited device into a PC port, undefined things can happen
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> especially if it's on an unpowered hub
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> It depends how friendly to other devices you want to be.
[22:08] <victhor> shorted data lines are used on devices to detect the presence of a dumb charger
[22:08] <ShiftPlusOne> didn't know about D+,D- being shorted though
[22:08] <izua> i thought every commercial device that charges via usb has an internal charger
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> izua: it does
[22:08] <victhor> so they will draw full 500 mA or more instead of limiting to 100 mA (USB devices can't use more than 100 mA without enumeration)
[22:09] <victhor> if these lines were left floating, the device would have no idea it's plugged in, so it would draw 100 mA of current only
[22:10] * evert (~evert@xvm-30-94.ghst.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:10] <victhor> this is for a well-behaving device that follows the rules, that is... many USB input charger chips can be switched from 100 to 500 mA current limit by a simple logic input
[22:11] <victhor> so you can interface it to a digital pin on a SoC, power management IC or other device and easily control the current depending on USB connection status
[22:15] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm, there's a lot of bot hate here XD
[22:15] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] <RITRedbeard> 6000mAh is a lot
[22:18] <RITRedbeard> 4000 mAh is a lot
[22:18] <victhor> 10000 mAh is enough
[22:18] <xlq> Protip: Use Amp-hours and save zeroes!
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Be aware that battery sizes are often lies.
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> For example, there are no 18650 cells over 3000mAh available
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> yet you can find 3600 listed
[22:19] <xlq> For some reason I suddenly imagined Chinese eBay sellers.
[22:19] <xlq> No idea why.
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308451-18650-battery-test-with-capacity-curves-for-many-cells
[22:20] <victhor> oh there are tons of LiPos on ebay rated for something like 1/2C discharge rate
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> see that
[22:20] <victhor> 1/2C? That's ridiculous
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> There are lots rated for 30C
[22:20] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] <MystX> Sup
[22:20] <victhor> 1C and 2C is enough for r-pi... 30C is for motors...
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[22:20] * CustomTronics (~mjtessmer@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] <RITRedbeard> 20C + are RC with no cell protection
[22:21] <RITRedbeard> the energy densities along with the sensitivity means you better treat them more like hand grenades than batteries
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Pierce them and they do this:
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU
[22:22] <IT_Sean> yeah... Do NOT use one of these batteries without the proper charging protection. They will aspode if you overhcarge them, try to charge them too quickly, or puncture them.
[22:22] <IT_Sean> And it is very difficult to extinguish the resultant fire.
[22:22] <tntexplosivesltd> IT_Sean: where's that thing of bot guidelines
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> Imagine that next to your (blackened stump of) genitals.
[22:23] <victhor> strange, I always thought the 1C cells were more sensitive
[22:23] <IT_Sean> tntexplosivesltd: in the topic
[22:23] <victhor> maybe because the small ones normally come with protection circuits
[22:26] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:ecb7:849a:2d6:8927) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:26] <RITRedbeard> they taste like chocolate I hear
[22:27] <LiENUS> good
[22:27] <LiENUS> good
[22:27] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] <victhor> if LiPo's too dangerous try LiFePO4. I heard they are safer
[22:27] <victhor> or use NiMH
[22:28] <IT_Sean> NiMH have memory effect. Ick.
[22:28] <MartijnVdS> NiCd!
[22:28] <ShiftPlusOne> oh wow... the wiki has been tidied up a lot since last time I saw it... nice.
[22:28] <MystX> IT_Sean: do i bother keeping anotherbot in rpi-bots or are you guys 'Not Keen (tm)'
[22:28] <noname^^> only use zinc-carbon batteries
[22:28] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[22:29] <victhor> NiMH doesn't have memory effect. NiCd does
[22:29] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner])
[22:29] <MartijnVdS> victhor: NiMH has it a little.
[22:29] <IT_Sean> MystX: can we not deal with this now? I don't want to be a jerk, but, im at work, and i have a pile of stuff to do in the next half hour before my weekend start. I'll be home in a couple of hours, at which point i can sit down and get into the whole bot review process. Okay?
[22:29] <victhor> and they don't last for long at 500 cycles mostly, and the cheap ones have terrible high current performance
[22:29] <MartijnVdS> Also memory effect is fixable/workaroundable. Mars rovers have NiCd or NiMH batteries and work for ages.
[22:30] <MystX> IT_Sean: cool =)
[22:30] <IT_Sean> groovy.
[22:30] <noname^^> I'm guessing nasa paid a little more than $1 per battery though :P
[22:30] <MystX> I have some work to go do anyways
[22:30] <tntexplosivesltd> ShiftPlusOne: wow it has =D
[22:30] <RITRedbeard> british people and bots = serious business
[22:30] <MystX> lol
[22:30] <victhor> I thought these kind of long duration vehicles used NiH2
[22:31] <ShiftPlusOne> realistically speaking what do you think would be the maximum current a raspberry pi would draw with a usb touchscreen and a wifi dongle attached? (Roughly)
[22:31] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, spme do
[22:31] <tntexplosivesltd> * some
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> ShiftPlusOne: 2.5W + ? + 2W or so
[22:31] <RITRedbeard> 2W board and less than 5W screen?
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> most dongles are more like 1W though
[22:31] <victhor> 1.7A?
[22:32] <victhor> consider 2A instead
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> 2-3A perhaps
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> Depends on the size of the screen
[22:32] <victhor> thought it was USB so 500 mA unless a external supply was used
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> I suspect some of the screens may use more
[22:32] <victhor> the 700 mA figure for the model B I found might not be under full load...
[22:33] <ShiftPlusOne> thanks
[22:33] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> It's going to vary a lot
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> a USB stick with proper power managment and wireless power saving may use 1/20th of a non-power-saving stick
[22:34] <victhor> I would consider the worst case scenario of 500 mA for each USB device. Seems the sensible choice, avoids choosing a undersized regulator
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[22:35] * raxetul (~raxetul@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:38] <ShiftPlusOne> Hmm... I think I'd need to figure out how to attach a laptop screen to a pi before worrying about charging =/
[22:40] <Aquilus_> Plug in HDMI. Mission accomplished?
[22:41] <Aquilus_> Oh, you reusing an old one or something?
[22:41] <ShiftPlusOne> ideally, yeah.
[22:41] <victhor> well it can be done... as long as you want to spend more money on peripherals than on the computer itself...
[22:41] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:ecb7:849a:2d6:8927) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:42] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has left #raspberrypi
[22:42] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh I am looking at a diy approach.... where I spend time researching how it would theoretically be done and then give up 'cause I realise it's more complicated than I initially thought
[22:42] <ShiftPlusOne> that's the plan anyway
[22:43] <victhor> get your hot air station ready! These things have lots of pins :P
[22:43] <ShiftPlusOne> it's always ready
[22:43] <victhor> :)
[22:44] <ShiftPlusOne> but yeah, I am mostly interested in how it would theoretically be done, rather than actually doing it (for now)
[22:44] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> There is a nice LVDS bridge chip from toshiba mentioned on the wiki
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> But it's not stocked, and I suspect impossible to obtain in ones
[22:46] <RITRedbeard> ask MystX
[22:46] <victhor> HDMI -> TFP401 -> SN75LVDS84A
[22:46] <victhor> -> LVDS
[22:48] <tntexplosivesltd> MystX: what chips are we using?
[22:48] <RITRedbeard> the same, I believe
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning MIPI
[22:48] <victhor> this LVDS encoder has 3 channels, your display might be different depending on resolution, color depth and refresh rate
[22:49] <tntexplosivesltd> hang on, looking it up
[22:49] * mrdragons (~lucas@gateway/tor-sasl/mrdragons) Quit (Quit: brb)
[22:49] <victhor> SpeedEvil, on one page they have a nice chip that does HDMI to CSI-2. It's in "Preview", and I suppose also not easy to get hold of unless you order a large volume.
[22:50] <victhor> although it's quite pointless using the Pi as a DVR with such a device, because of the insufficient disk performance
[22:52] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> victhor: TI?
[22:53] <victhor> no, toshiba.
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> I get 10M+/s to SD on my n900
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> Toshiba are impossible to sample from
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> At least IME
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> And then you run into needing small quantities
[22:54] <victhor> yup, that's what I mentioned on that message
[22:54] <tntexplosivesltd> we were able to sample the chips we use from Ti
[22:54] <ShiftPlusOne> Maybe a better approach would be to dismantle an hdmi monitor and work from there =/
[22:54] <victhor> TI is easy to get samples from
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> ah - sorry - not really awake
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> TI is lots sample-friendlier.
[22:55] <victhor> toshiba doesn't even have a datasheet link to their ics... :/
[22:55] * SpeedEvil looks at his I2C non-contact temperature sensor.
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> TI
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> TMP005
[22:55] <victhor> I thought it was the 006
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> err
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> maybe
[22:56] <victhor> the 006 is so tiny, 8 pin BGA. I found it interesting but it's so smal...
[22:56] <victhor> small*
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> All sorts of apps
[22:56] <tntexplosivesltd> ah
[22:56] <tntexplosivesltd> SN75LVDS84A and TFP401A
[22:57] <tntexplosivesltd> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/features-and-requests/lvds-interface/page-3
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:58] <tntexplosivesltd> also pics of the bare boards http://i.imgur.com/TFZH9.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/EJDhJ.jpg
[22:58] <ReggieUK> piPr0n
[22:59] <tntexplosivesltd> victhor: 8-pin BGA?
[22:59] <tntexplosivesltd> wow
[23:00] <EiNSTeiN_> did MystX have more luck testing them?
[23:00] <EiNSTeiN_> last I heard it was not going well
[23:01] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm, not sure
[23:01] <tntexplosivesltd> we were gonna try the eeprom itself
[23:01] <tntexplosivesltd> he has my breadboard and should be testing it today >.>
[23:01] <EiNSTeiN_> I designed two boards based on the tfp401 last week
[23:01] <tntexplosivesltd> *should*
[23:01] <EiNSTeiN_> one for lvds the other one for vga
[23:02] <victhor> I know a digital out IR sensor that comes in a TO-39 package
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> victhor: prob ably not for $2 thoguh
[23:02] <EiNSTeiN_> as soon as the chinese new year is over I will have them manufactured and test the design
[23:03] <victhor> $25
[23:03] <victhor> not $2 :P
[23:03] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, the problem so far is that the eeprom can't be talked to
[23:03] <victhor> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/MLX90614ESF-BAA/MLX90614ESF-BAA-ND/1647941
[23:04] <tntexplosivesltd> we're thinking it's the need for pullup resistors on the clock/data lines
[23:04] <tntexplosivesltd> that's what the breadboard testing is for
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Of I2C?
[23:04] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> yes, you need pullups - always
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> 10K is common
[23:04] <tntexplosivesltd> mhm, it looks like this board was designed without them =|
[23:04] <victhor> green wire
[23:05] <victhor> reminds me I made a board with footprints for 0805 resistors, but my supplier had only 0603 of the resistance value I needed (50 ohms). I ordered through hole ones instead...
[23:05] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[23:06] <victhor> I'm thinking of greenwiring them to the SMT pads
[23:06] <tntexplosivesltd> 0603 ftw
[23:06] <tntexplosivesltd> SpeedEvil: why does i2c need pullups?
[23:06] <EiNSTeiN_> because of the way the i2c master is driving the bus
[23:06] <victhor> http://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/acatalog/I2C_Tutorial.html
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> tntexplosivesltd: Because it's designed so you can connect multiple chips in parallel on the us
[23:07] <EiNSTeiN_> it needs pullups on the slave side
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> It needs one pullup somewhere on teh whole bus
[23:07] <tntexplosivesltd> okay right
[23:07] <tntexplosivesltd> will contact the board designer about that
[23:08] <victhor> out of curiosity, what is accessing the EEPROM?
[23:08] <tntexplosivesltd> the GPU
[23:08] <tntexplosivesltd> it asks it what resolutions the screen supports
[23:09] <tntexplosivesltd> the eeprom needs to be programmed with supported resolutions on these boards first XD
[23:09] <victhor> no, I meant in your current test setup
[23:09] <tntexplosivesltd> the gpu
[23:10] <tntexplosivesltd> it accesses it through the DVI connector
[23:10] <victhor> oh :P
[23:10] <tntexplosivesltd> our "test" setup is a finished board
[23:11] <victhor> oh. I see what you did
[23:12] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:ecb7:849a:2d6:8927) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:14] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:14] * mrdragons (~lucas@gateway/tor-sasl/mrdragons) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:15] <mrdragons> I just realized we have a nick in here for every letter of the alphabet
[23:16] <haltdef> you have too much free time
[23:16] <mrdragons> I thought that's why I'm on irc
[23:17] <tntexplosivesltd> MystX: in the datasheet for the eeprom, there is a table for calculating the pullup resistor value
[23:17] <tntexplosivesltd> http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheets-31/DSA-607441.pdf
[23:18] <MystX> yeah but
[23:19] <MystX> i looked at that and realised i couldnt work it out
[23:20] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm
[23:20] <MystX> Based on speedevils comments though^^
[23:21] <MystX> THe 3k3 i have might not be enough
[23:21] <MystX> tntexplosivesltd: do you have anything close to 10k on you?
[23:22] <tntexplosivesltd> is 10k good enough?
[23:23] <tntexplosivesltd> I have 10k
[23:23] <MystX> yes
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> 10K is common
[23:23] <MystX> that is acceptable
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Anything from maybe 500 ohms to 100K will probably work
[23:23] <MystX> oh =\
[23:24] <MystX> 3.3k doesnt =\
[23:24] <tntexplosivesltd> normally for picaxe I use 4.7k
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> What are you trying to read the eeprom with, is it the right way round, are the pins static at teh right levels. have you got power to it?
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> And do you have a scope?
[23:25] <MystX> yes to power
[23:25] <MystX> tryig to read with PowerStrip
[23:27] <tntexplosivesltd> MystX: come over and we can try reading it with a picaxe =P
[23:28] <tntexplosivesltd> becaise that would prove nothing useful
[23:28] <tntexplosivesltd> * because
[23:28] <MystX> yay
[23:28] <RITRedbeard> MystX, blue smoke?
[23:28] <MystX> na, ill come get the 10ks though
[23:28] <MystX> RITRedbeard: Nope
[23:28] <tntexplosivesltd> mean
[23:28] * jardiamj (~chatzilla@221-228-212-206-wiban.onlinemac.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:28] <MystX> RITRedbeard: the 12v convertor gets hot, but outputs the correct voltage
[23:29] <RITRedbeard> MystX, it work?
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> MystX: If it's a linear regulator - you do have a heatsink on it?
[23:31] <MystX> SpeedEvil: its 5v to 12v. so the ones witht the associated cap etc
[23:31] <MystX> also its tiny
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> Add a fan
[23:32] * felipeal` (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) Quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
[23:33] <OneFix_Work> So, how exactly is the design for the Raspberry Pi licensed? Is it possible for people to produce their own boards without sending $$$ to the foundation?
[23:33] <tntexplosivesltd> MystX: when you come over can you bring an eeprom chip for me to play with?
[23:34] <MystX> tntexplosivesltd: yup
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> OneFix_Work: you can't - effectively - get the SOC
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> AIUI
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> tntexplosivesltd: get an old VGA monitor
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> hook up the one from that
[23:34] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> Also, any old DIMM will have it on
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> (recentish)
[23:36] <tntexplosivesltd> SpeedEvil: ima test just the i2c with a picaxe
[23:39] <tntexplosivesltd> a VGA monitor has an EDID EEPROM chip on it, so it would be pointless
[23:41] * Jaseman (5f93f1d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:42] <tntexplosivesltd> yay
[23:43] * LiENUX (~yes@ip68-11-254-175.br.br.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:43] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[23:43] <jardiamj> is it out yet?
[23:43] * PiBot slaps jardiamj across the face with a cast iron pan.
[23:43] <sightlight> nope
[23:43] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #raspberrypi
[23:43] <jardiamj> hey guys I just saw that new awesome video on the rasp page...
[23:44] <mrdragons> Prove it
[23:44] * pizza-dude (~fake@dhcp-077-249-161-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:45] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:45] <jardiamj> it's beautiful...
[23:45] <tntexplosivesltd> is it the video we've all seen already?
[23:45] <mrdragons> I know, I want to learn qt now because of it. :D
[23:46] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:ecb7:849a:2d6:8927) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:46] <jardiamj> but they just keep on getting us more eager every day..
[23:46] <Jaseman> i expect you can do taht in python too
[23:46] <jardiamj> well.. tntexplosivesltd, it was posted today..
[23:46] <mrdragons> Probably, but I want to start doing more things with C
[23:46] <jardiamj> I don't know if you've already seen it..
[23:46] <mrdragons> I don't use it enough
[23:46] <tntexplosivesltd> C =D
[23:46] <Jaseman> c is too much hard work
[23:46] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[23:47] <mrdragons> C is control
[23:47] <tntexplosivesltd> C is god tier
[23:47] <Aquilus_> tntexplosivesltd: C equals D? What? :p
[23:48] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:48] <Jaseman> the thing is.....
[23:49] <Jaseman> yuo can bounce png's around the screen all day
[23:49] <Jaseman> but what use is it?
[23:49] <tntexplosivesltd> for making us more eager
[23:51] <Jaseman> im really bored this evening
[23:51] <MystX> bless sightlight he's trying so hard to join
[23:53] <Jaseman> you are in a room
[23:54] <Jaseman> exits are to the south
[23:54] <MystX> wat
[23:54] <Jaseman> on the floor is an axe
[23:54] <Jaseman> im prettending to be one of those old text based games
[23:54] <tntexplosivesltd> please don't
[23:54] <Jaseman> where you have to say things like 'pick up aze'
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> xyzzy
[23:55] <Thorn_> on the wall is a button. it reads 'kick jaseman'.
[23:55] <mrdragons> throw axe at button
[23:55] <Jaseman> im sorry that option is not available
[23:55] <tntexplosivesltd> why not?
[23:55] <tntexplosivesltd> what kinda world is this?
[23:56] <Jaseman> i guess it wouldnt be too hard to write a game like that
[23:56] <Jaseman> remember those books you could get....
[23:56] * jluisn (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:56] <Jaseman> if you choose to do this then turn to page 37
[23:57] <MystX> ill kill you
[23:58] * NIN101 (~NIN@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:58] <Jaseman> that's the spirit
[23:58] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-iipregumvwtjaxou) has left #raspberrypi

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