#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-01-30

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:05] * Gwildor (~Gwildor@adsl-99-181-124-83.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:06] <koaschten> phone is a good reminder, i need to change the gplus sound for when people tag me on photos, so i can have them taken down
[0:08] <uriah> hmm... is titanium backup a good tool?
[0:08] <koaschten> yes
[0:08] <uriah> k
[0:09] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p2-163.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] * pnunn (~pnunn@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:20] <uriah> koaschten: do you know how i can backup *only* my call log, text messages and contacts?
[0:21] * Gwildor (~Gwildor@adsl-99-181-124-83.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:23] <koaschten> no, i own an iphone :D
[0:24] <uriah> lol, k
[0:25] <Mowee> and you're proud of you
[0:25] <Mowee> bleh
[0:26] <koaschten> who said that Mowee?
[0:26] <koaschten> it's just that my contract renew every two years sadly coincides more with the apple releases than the samsung galaxy releases ;)
[0:27] <koaschten> I mostly use it as phone and mail device could care less if it's iOS or Android
[0:27] <Mowee> In your case, I would have wait for it :p
[0:28] * IT_Sean likes his iPhone
[0:28] <Mowee> but I can undertand you
[0:28] <Mowee> my work gave me a macbook, I was like O_O "ya kiddin right?"
[0:29] <koaschten> You gotta love my providers speed test... the line obviously is saturated but the speedtest data got highest QoS priority... so when you complain on the hotline and check your last speedtests they can say... all fine ?!
[0:29] <IT_Sean> heh
[0:29] <Mowee> Where are you from?
[0:29] <IT_Sean> nice
[0:30] <koaschten> <- ?
[0:30] <Mowee> yep
[0:30] <koaschten> germany
[0:30] <Mowee> Recently, a new provider showed up here in france
[0:30] <Mowee> Free, I guess you heard of it
[0:31] <koaschten> free
[0:31] <koaschten> awful name for a paid service
[0:31] <Mowee> hehe
[0:31] <Mowee> It was "Freesbee" at start
[0:31] <koaschten> oh god....
[0:31] <Mowee> Yeah, they didnt find a nice nick
[0:32] <Mowee> But they save us from all those telecom sharks
[0:32] <koaschten> well you french people are already fucked
[0:32] <koaschten> ... 3 strike law
[0:32] <Mowee> You mean hadopi ?
[0:32] <koaschten> whatever it's called
[0:33] <Mowee> Well... we dont give a fuck here
[0:33] <koaschten> acta now is only a small drop in the glass ontop
[0:33] <koaschten> so what do you do on a 3rd strike notice?
[0:33] <Mowee> Just cause if you're an old one, you buy cds and movies
[0:33] <koaschten> you get cut of the internet?
[0:33] <Mowee> If you are a young person, you know about vpn and other stuffs
[0:33] <Mowee> haha no
[0:33] <Mowee> These bitches never cut off the internet
[0:34] * uriah (~uriah@unaffiliated/uriahheep) Quit (Quit: bbl)
[0:34] <Mowee> A lot of ppl got the 3 letters, and the "hadopi" just cant manage that
[0:35] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-151-136.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:36] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[0:36] <mrdragons> Bot's not here. :\
[0:36] <Thorn_> i've been asking that question for alot longer than that damn bot's been around tyvm
[0:37] <mrdragons> I know, I'm just stating the bot's not here.
[0:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o ShiftPlusOne
[0:37] * ChanServ sets mode -o ShiftPlusOne
[0:38] <koaschten> hey Thorn_ did you consider signing up to the mailing list? ;)
[0:39] <Thorn_> i did
[0:39] <Thorn_> in august
[0:39] <koaschten> so why are you asking in here? ;)
[0:39] <Thorn_> it's a tradition
[0:39] <IT_Sean> koaschten: he just does it to be irritating. Just ignore him, and eventually he wafts away into oblivion. Like a fart.
[0:40] <koaschten> this smells..
[0:40] <Thorn_> well, i've been asking that question longer than IT_Sean has been around here, so that's doubtful :)
[0:47] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: phood)
[0:52] <ShiftPlusOne> phood? good idea.
[0:52] <Thorn_> ShiftPlusOne: know much about suzukis?
[0:55] <ShiftPlusOne> what exactly?
[0:56] <Thorn_> gsxf series
[0:56] <Thorn_> e.g the reason for why they were so unpopular
[0:57] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh, but if you're going for a suzuki, the sv650 is one of the best bikes you can get
[0:57] <Thorn_> oh its not me
[0:58] <Thorn_> friend just bought a gsxf 750s
[0:58] <ShiftPlusOne> what year?
[0:58] <Thorn_> 2000, damn comfortable bike
[0:58] <Thorn_> to sit as passenger that is
[0:58] <Thorn_> but finding parts for it here, jeez
[0:58] <Thorn_> nothing at all
[0:59] <ShiftPlusOne> it's a bit of a touring bike, isn't it?
[0:59] <Thorn_> sport tourer, yep
[0:59] <Thorn_> weighs a damn tonne too, 205kg dry
[0:59] <hamitron> I prefer honda to get parts for, but heart prefers suzuki
[0:59] <hamitron> ;)
[0:59] * stereohead is now known as stereohead-away
[0:59] <Thorn_> pulled every muscle in my upper body helping him get it in the back yard
[1:00] <Thorn_> the prob with suzuki is all their bikes have similar damn problems
[1:00] <Thorn_> e.g: terrible alternator
[1:00] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:00] <Thorn_> revs drop when the headlight's on etc
[1:00] <Thorn_> headlight dims as the indicator blinks
[1:01] <ShiftPlusOne> and obviously heavy is not good
[1:01] <Thorn_> depends on your preference really
[1:01] <Thorn_> it's certainly more stable than usual :)
[1:01] <ShiftPlusOne> but less maneuverable
[1:01] <Thorn_> but it's like a mustang
[1:01] <ShiftPlusOne> which is the fun of motorbikes
[1:01] <Thorn_> goes in a straight line, you shred your leg muscles couping her round bends
[1:02] <ShiftPlusOne> the center of gravity looks fairly high as well
[1:03] <Thorn_> yeah, but it's still a really nice bike
[1:03] <Thorn_> just odd that they were so particularly unpopular
[1:03] <ShiftPlusOne> how is it on the twisties?
[1:03] * Gwildor (~Gwildor@adsl-99-181-124-83.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:03] * f33p (~feep@p5B2B5BBE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] * feep (~feep@p5B2B2BCE.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[1:03] <Thorn_> dunno, i'm not the driver ;p
[1:03] * f33p is now known as feep
[1:03] <hamitron> probably scarey if he is pillion ;)
[1:03] * Gwildor (~Gwildor@adsl-99-181-124-83.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] <ShiftPlusOne> I am assuming the driver is a guy... if you were pillion... what the hell do you hold on to?
[1:04] <hamitron> hehe
[1:04] <Thorn_> uh, the back?
[1:05] <Thorn_> it has a back grip like every other bike in the last few years ;p
[1:05] <hamitron> I hate my arms behind me as pillion :/
[1:05] <hamitron> but tbh, hate pillion
[1:05] <feep> nathan pillion
[1:05] <Thorn_> depends who you're with
[1:05] <Thorn_> i quite like the pillion when it's a good driver
[1:06] <hamitron> I'll accept pillion.... if the right girls asks, from now on ;/
[1:06] <Thorn_> but if it's on the back of someone you dont trust, yeah it's not fun
[1:06] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:06] <ShiftPlusOne> riding with a passanger sucks
[1:06] <ShiftPlusOne> especially if they fidget around corners
[1:07] <hamitron> or lean the other way ;)
[1:07] <ShiftPlusOne> and bump their helmet into yours every time you stop =/
[1:07] <Thorn_> if the pillion is decent you shouldn't even feel he's there
[1:07] <hamitron> haha
[1:07] <Thorn_> he/she
[1:07] <Thorn_> being a pillion is a skill too almost ;p
[1:07] <hamitron> my bike can't handle more than me on well :/
[1:07] <Thorn_> a 125?
[1:08] <hamitron> na, honda CB400N wetdream
[1:08] <hamitron> ;)
[1:08] <Thorn_> what
[1:08] <hamitron> 1980
[1:08] <Thorn_> honda CB400 was a rocket
[1:08] <Thorn_> yep
[1:08] <hamitron> it isn't the CB400
[1:08] <hamitron> very top heavy
[1:08] <hamitron> :/
[1:09] <Thorn_> oh only 26hp on the N model
[1:09] <hamitron> wtf
[1:09] <hamitron> more than that
[1:09] <Thorn_> the CB400 had 56
[1:09] <Thorn_> and it could handle a passenger fine, top gear going uphill ;p
[1:09] <hamitron> 43 bhp
[1:10] <hamitron> can get 100
[1:10] <hamitron> just
[1:10] <hamitron> main problem is it is really unstable
[1:11] <MystX> Wish i had a bike =(
[1:11] <ShiftPlusOne> then get one =)
[1:11] <hamitron> I got a suzuki gs125 too
[1:11] <MystX> Student
[1:11] <hamitron> can't bring myself to sell my first bike :(
[1:11] <ShiftPlusOne> MystX, also a student
[1:11] <ShiftPlusOne> MystX, American then?
[1:12] <MystX> No
[1:12] <MystX> Just, not that much money
[1:12] <ShiftPlusOne> then work more =)
[1:12] <MystX> And I spend it all on computers
[1:12] <MystX> And my pushbike
[1:12] <hamitron> I got my first one for ?200
[1:12] <ShiftPlusOne> I got my job for the sole purpose of getting my bike
[1:12] <MystX> Hmm.
[1:13] <hamitron> just had a few small problems, like brakes not working
[1:13] <hamitron> and it didn't start on the button
[1:13] <ShiftPlusOne> On the other hand, my friend just bought a bike for $2500 and now has to spend another $1500 to get it roadworthy =/
[1:13] <hamitron> omg
[1:14] * hamitron faints
[1:14] <MystX> Yeah maintenance is my biggest problem
[1:14] <MystX> because i dont work during the year
[1:14] <hamitron> MystX, it is actually really cheap, if you do it yourself
[1:14] <izua> you make it sound like you only work on feb 30
[1:14] <hamitron> :)
[1:15] <MystX> I work Nov->feb, when uni's not on =)
[1:15] <izua> minus the parts, which are also really cheap if you make them yourself?
[1:15] <feep> Nob->fev
[1:15] <MystX> Just enough money for rent and more PCs
[1:15] <izua> minus the steel, which is also really cheap if you smelt it yourself :D
[1:15] * pnunn (~pnunn@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[1:15] <hamitron> most "broken" bits can be bodged
[1:15] <hamitron> ;)
[1:15] <MystX> izua: minus the iron, which is cheap if you mine it yourself
[1:15] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[1:16] <tntexplosivesltd> in NZ, we do not simply bodge
[1:16] <Thorn_> yeah, cos a real man's fairing is 80% ducttape! right oO
[1:16] <Thorn_> ;p
[1:16] <MystX> Pretty much
[1:16] <izua> MystX: not sure about that - that's why i didn't say it!
[1:16] <hamitron> fairing?
[1:16] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, if you have a bike you should really try to service it yourself as much as possible. At least know how to change the fluids.
[1:16] <hamitron> real men ride naked ;)
[1:16] <izua> (my hunch is that the coal might be more expensive)
[1:16] <MystX> I know how to change fluids ;)
[1:16] <Thorn_> naked bikes are ugly
[1:16] <hamitron> modern naked ones, yeh
[1:16] <feep> MystX is an alchemist~
[1:16] <hamitron> no sole :/
[1:17] <MystX> feep: close. Jeusus.
[1:17] <MystX> Jesus*
[1:17] <feep> :D
[1:17] <MystX> Wtf brain
[1:17] <feep> Full Metal Christ
[1:17] <MystX> Lol
[1:17] <feep> wouldn't you watch that? I'd watch that.
[1:17] <hamitron> naked bikes are good for learners.... cheaper when you crash
[1:17] <MystX> Bad ass christ kicking everyones ass and then preaching to them?
[1:17] <MystX> probably would watch that
[1:18] <feep> not sure how to work in the living suit of armor though
[1:18] <tntexplosivesltd> what...?
[1:19] <tntexplosivesltd> full metal = metal music
[1:19] <MystX> No, tnt
[1:19] <tntexplosivesltd> not the material
[1:19] <MystX> just.. dont worry
[1:19] <tntexplosivesltd> no, I understand
[1:19] <ShiftPlusOne> O_o
[1:19] <tntexplosivesltd> you're just doing it wrong
[1:20] <MystX> We're talking about Fullmetal Alchemist..
[1:20] <tntexplosivesltd> but you know nothing about that,,,
[1:20] <tntexplosivesltd> * ...
[1:20] <MystX> Says..?
[1:20] <tntexplosivesltd> you hate anime
[1:21] <MystX> Says..?
[1:21] * Gwildor (~Gwildor@adsl-99-181-124-83.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:21] <tntexplosivesltd> that's what you've always said
[1:21] <MystX> Youre talking to the guy who religiously watches dragonball and yu-gi-oh.
[1:21] <MystX> whatched*
[1:21] <tntexplosivesltd> because you were 12
[1:21] <MystX> Terrible examples of anime, but still
[1:21] <feep> you know what I always loved about that anime
[1:22] <MystX> Ive never said i hated it, fuck up
[1:22] <MystX> Which?
[1:22] <tntexplosivesltd> MystX: umad?
[1:22] <feep> "edward elric is an amateur alchemist. when his mother dies, he attempts to bring her back, but instead summons an unholy abomination from beyond spacetime. "
[1:22] <feep> in most series that would be a spoiler
[1:22] <feep> here, it happens BEFORE THE INTRO of the FIRST EPISODE.
[1:22] <ShiftPlusOne> MystX, how long before you realise you're being trolled?
[1:22] <MystX> ShiftPlusOne: Im not, tnt puts words in my mouth all the time
[1:23] <MystX> But he'll pull out the 'i was trolling' now
[1:23] <MystX> Dont worry
[1:23] <MystX> feep: yeah lol
[1:23] <hamitron> comeon girls, chill ;/
[1:23] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[1:23] <MystX> Also, the best part about yu-gi-oh is all of the plit holes
[1:23] <MystX> plot*
[1:24] <MystX> and 4kids's cencorship is hilarious
[1:24] <ShiftPlusOne> You're all noobs,, pokemon is the best anime of all time.
[1:24] <feep> I mean when "my mother is a government-trained zombie who wants to kill me" is _backstory_, you got something special
[1:24] <tntexplosivesltd> MystX: you're bad at this
[1:24] <MystX> "Stop! Or we'll shoot you with our invisible guns!"
[1:25] <feep> also: brotherhood, well-deserved reimagining or ruining all the things forever?
[1:25] <feep> while we're at it, anime or manga?
[1:26] <ShiftPlusOne> manga... 'cause in japan is lived in a manga cafe for a few days.... never read anything, just slept there.... but yeah.
[1:26] <tntexplosivesltd> MystX: you falsely assume I wasn't already
[1:26] <MystX> eh, im not really a master or either
[1:26] <ShiftPlusOne> You get your own room with a bed in a manga cafe over there for some reason =/
[1:27] <MystX> ShiftPlusOne: ~.-
[1:27] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: I meant, fma: which is better :p
[1:27] * feep has yet to read the manga.
[1:27] <ShiftPlusOne> Oh right
[1:28] <feep> the anime diverged because it overtook the manga
[1:28] <feep> so it had to make its own ending
[1:29] * pnunn (~pnunn@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:40] <MystX> Hi pnunn
[1:42] <MystX> =(
[1:42] <MystX> ;-;
[1:43] <MystX> D=
[1:43] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:8436:e84c:94c4:fa09) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:47] * skreezus (~zippitybo@pa-67-235-83-67.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:49] * skreezus (~zippitybo@pa-67-235-83-67.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[1:49] * skroot (~zippitybo@pa-67-235-83-67.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:51] * JustinPM (4b30048f@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[1:59] <pnunn> Hi <MystX> how are you?
[2:01] <jardiamj> is it out yet?
[2:01] <mrdragons> Yep
[2:01] <mrdragons> It's everywhere
[2:01] <mrdragons> OH GOD GET IT OFF ME
[2:02] <jardiamj> where is the bot?
[2:02] <mrdragons> Not here atm. :\
[2:02] <LiENUS> weird
[2:02] <LiENUS> seems to be a bug
[2:02] <LiENUS> the raspi isnt showing up for sale on raspberrypi.com for my buddy
[2:02] <LiENUS> is it not showing up for anyone else?
[2:02] <jardiamj> it shows here...
[2:03] <LiENUS> weird wonder why it wont for my buddy
[2:03] <mrdragons> All good here, although on my other computer it just shows as a blank, empty slot
[2:03] <LiENUS> he even tried uninstalling firefox and installing chrome
[2:03] <LiENUS> all he sees are the stickers not the board
[2:04] <jardiamj> wow.. that's weird...
[2:04] <jardiamj> wonder if it has something to do with the location he is at..
[2:04] <LiENUS> he lives next door to me
[2:04] <jardiamj> maybe they're just selling local..
[2:04] <jardiamj> mmm...
[2:05] <jardiamj> the wiki looks a lot better now...
[2:06] <LiENUS> i wonder if his isp is doing some sort of caching or something
[2:06] <LiENUS> transparent proxy
[2:06] <mrdragons> Yeah, not bad huh
[2:06] <mrdragons> I need to contribute to it after the pi comes out
[2:07] <jardiamj> I'll have to use it after I get my pi.... hahaha
[2:07] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has left #raspberrypi
[2:13] <mrdragons> I'm incredibly surprised at the community that's sprung up around this, espescially before it's released.
[2:13] <mrdragons> I mean, 50,000 people on a mailing list for a board is crazy
[2:14] <jardiamj> hahahaha... it sounds crazy...
[2:16] <jardiamj> I would like to help translating the documentation into Spanish, do you know of any group or anyone, that I could join... or should I start myself
[2:16] <JustinPM> Give people the opportunity to buy something so inexpensive and they'll come in droves. Like Wal-Mart on Black Friday. Though probably with less stampedes and crimes.
[2:16] * Threepio (~threepio@S0106001f5b009dd8.vs.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
[2:16] <DaQatz> hard to stampede on the internet.
[2:17] <DaQatz> crime is easy enough though.
[2:17] <SpeedEvil> It's almost not to do with the board.
[2:17] <SpeedEvil> It's the successful marketing
[2:18] <JustinPM> I'd say the marketing has a big hand in it.
[2:19] <JustinPM> I know after the limit on orders becomes a non-issue, I plan on trying to implement it everywhere. CarPC? Yes please. HTPC? Very yes. Portable photographer backup pack? Maybe.
[2:20] <jardiamj> I've seen articles about it everywhere http://news.ycombinator.com/, reddit, linux news, everywhere...
[2:20] <SpeedEvil> Screw that.
[2:20] <SpeedEvil> It's been on actual mainstream news.
[2:20] <ReggieUK> I think they'll be incredibly versatile boards but they won't be doing everything that people 'think' a computer can do
[2:20] <ReggieUK> at least not very well depending on the circumstances
[2:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16424990
[2:20] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[2:21] <jardiamj> anyway, does anybody know how would I go about helping translating the documentation into Spanish?
[2:21] <ReggieUK> at the moment it's really no more than a glorified digital photoframe, eh, SpeedEvil?
[2:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[2:21] <JustinPM> I think that all lands on what's compiled for ARMv5.
[2:21] <Thorn_> v6
[2:21] <JustinPM> Ah, I thought it was s5 for some reason.
[2:22] <JustinPM> Even better!
[2:22] <ReggieUK> well, no not really, it's really dependent on the processor speed and ram, some things will just be ugly if they work
[2:22] <ReggieUK> other things will look slick
[2:22] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[2:23] <SpeedEvil> The 'raw' CPU is about the same as a decade old laptop.
[2:23] <SpeedEvil> Maybe 15
[2:23] <ReggieUK> like hd playback, it'd bloody better do that seeing as it's got a custom bleeding edge closed source gpu inside it
[2:23] <JustinPM> XBMC seemed to have run pretty decently. I'm on board with that. I know mpd and subsonic work on an ARM platform (and on v6 as well) so that'll cover another one of my projects.
[2:25] <ReggieUK> anything that uses > 256MB of ram will struggle too
[2:25] <ReggieUK> everyone is expecting to just chuck everything on usb, including external drives
[2:26] <tntexplosivesltd> !w
[2:26] <ReggieUK> good luck with the speed on all that stuff fighting with each other for the finite bandwidth
[2:26] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[2:26] <SpeedEvil> I get 30M/s on external USB drives
[2:26] <ReggieUK> now that might sound like I'm knocking the pi, I'm not, I think it's going to be a great little board
[2:26] <SpeedEvil> (I don't know if the pi will do this)
[2:27] <ReggieUK> indeed, SpeedEvil, I've got a usb stick that will do 25MB/s read, it's great for booting a live stick on
[2:28] <SpeedEvil> And my actual HD on my laptop is about that fast.
[2:28] <ReggieUK> but as you say, will the pi do that, especially with other stuff sharing the bus
[2:28] <koaschten> more interesting will be, how much cpu cycles get munched for all the usb i/o
[2:29] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[2:29] * hamitron_ (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:29] <SpeedEvil> For some stuff, it's utterly adequate.
[2:29] <SpeedEvil> For example, I'm considering - literally - a better mousetrap.
[2:29] <SpeedEvil> Underfloor IR webcams + 'motion'
[2:30] <koaschten> sounds more like a toy ;)
[2:30] <SpeedEvil> Alas not. (contains expired rodent) http://www.mauve.plus.com/rattus.jpg
[2:33] <koaschten> hmm amazon germany selling xbox 360 slim 250GB for 149?
[2:33] * hamitron_ (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Client Quit)
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[3:28] <ShiftPlusOne> goddamn flash and youtube and chrome >=/
[3:29] <tntexplosivesltd> and all the evils in the world
[3:33] <hamitron> tntexplosivesltd, no need to drag MS and Apple into everything ;)
[3:33] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[3:33] <tntexplosivesltd> well >.>
[3:34] <ShiftPlusOne> How is MS evil anyway?
[3:34] <mrdragons> heh
[3:34] <MystX> Dammit, i was meant to look something up on garry's blog so i could copy/use it /do something
[3:34] <MystX> Cant remember wtf it was
[3:36] <tntexplosivesltd> linking in windows?
[3:37] <MystX> THATS WHAT IT WAS
[3:37] <MystX> Na, that site he posted ages ago about hardware comparison
[3:37] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: long history of anticompetetive and market-damaging behavior?
[3:38] <tntexplosivesltd> meh meh meh we know
[3:38] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[3:39] <ShiftPlusOne> feep, like? bundling internet explorer with windows?
[3:39] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[3:39] <feep> yeah, like that
[3:39] <Henchman21> bill gates is straight up evil lookup vaccines and depopulation +billy boy gates
[3:40] <feep> I don't actually know the details but it was convincing at the time!
[3:40] <mrdragons> UEFI bootloader lock...
[3:40] <feep> broken fucking bioses under linux
[3:40] <ShiftPlusOne> Henchman21, really?
[3:40] <feep> thanks to microsoft's incompatible piece of shit dsdt compiler
[3:40] <mrdragons> DRM buttkissing in Vista and 7
[3:41] <feep> the whole office lock-in
[3:41] <feep> office open xml
[3:41] <feep> and don't you dare tell me that wasn't intentional
[3:41] <feep> the blatant subversion of the iso certification process
[3:41] <feep> and that's just the recent stuff.
[3:41] <mrdragons> Apple tries to copyright ans sue everything technological
[3:41] <mrdragons> and*
[3:42] <hamitron> and Apple makes everything pretty and boring
[3:42] <hamitron> locked down
[3:42] <Henchman21> and expensive
[3:42] <hamitron> yeh
[3:42] * hamitron spits
[3:42] <Henchman21> made with slave labor
[3:43] <hamitron> tbh, I can live with that if it saves me some money
[3:43] <hamitron> ;)
[3:43] * hamitron hangs head in shame
[3:43] <Henchman21> it doesnt save you money
[3:43] <Henchman21> it saved apple money
[3:43] <hamitron> yeh :/
[3:43] <hamitron> but apple don't get my money
[3:44] <hamitron> ;)
[3:44] <Henchman21> they dont pass the savings on to you
[3:44] <ShiftPlusOne> Henchman21, so, how's life anyway? Anything interesting going on?
[3:44] <mrdragons> He's a slave
[3:46] <ShiftPlusOne> feep, my point is you will always have a choice. As long as there is a demand, it will be profitable to supply it. So, I don't care if they bundle IE, I'll install whatever I want. I don't care about what BIOS my MB runs, because I can always buy an MB with has a linux-based BIOS. In fact, the more draconian they get, the better it is for us. It's out of their greed that we get the raspberry pi, GNU and so on.
[3:46] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: you are not the average consumer.
[3:47] <feep> and that's really the broken window fallacy.
[3:47] <ShiftPlusOne> feep, and the more they restrict their system, the less 'average' customers there will be.
[3:47] <SpeedEvil> ShiftPlusOne: you're assuming that your segment of the market is lucrative enough to be served.
[3:47] <mrdragons> not true
[3:47] <hamitron> ShiftPlusOne, and the average new user won't be able to "try" our ways with the devices they have
[3:47] <ShiftPlusOne> SpeedEvil, not as assumption.
[3:48] <missPapaya> most people won't even know there's a lockout in their bios
[3:48] <SpeedEvil> ShiftPlusOne: Sure it is.
[3:48] <hamitron> tbh, I personally think that locked bios is a good thing
[3:48] <hamitron> :)
[3:49] <Henchman21> rms does not approve
[3:49] <ShiftPlusOne> SpeedEvil, how is that an assumption. I am willing to pay extra for DRM-free content, for uncrippled hardware and software. I know I am not the only one and I know that companies cave in. Look at online music stores which started with DRM content then had to make it all DRM-free.
[3:50] <SpeedEvil> ShiftPlusOne: You're assuming that the number of consumers you represent is commercially significant.
[3:50] <mrdragons> There's DRM-free music stores?
[3:50] <hamitron> DRM on music, affected more people, than a locked bios will
[3:50] <SpeedEvil> And it's more lucrative than doing the more locked-down products.
[3:50] <ShiftPlusOne> And the fact of the matter is that companies have a global market accessible to them. Even if people like me are 1% of the market, around the world, that adds up to hell of a lot of people.
[3:50] <mrdragons> Not commercially significant though
[3:50] <SpeedEvil> For example.
[3:50] <SpeedEvil> Quick poll.
[3:51] <SpeedEvil> Who would like to - today - to be able to buy a 4:3 laptop?
[3:51] <SpeedEvil> (A new one)
[3:51] <hamitron> me
[3:51] <mrdragons> Nah.
[3:51] <hamitron> :)
[3:51] <ReggieUK> ME
[3:51] <ShiftPlusOne> nope
[3:51] <mrdragons> I like the wider aspect ratio.
[3:51] <ReggieUK> widescreen crap does my tits in
[3:51] <ReggieUK> I don't mind it for tv
[3:51] <SpeedEvil> Well - the above would indicate that 3/4 of people would like to have one, but they're not available.
[3:51] <ReggieUK> and film
[3:51] <hamitron> widescreen is bad for anything you read vertically..... most things
[3:51] <missPapaya> 4:3 can fit more lines of code ;)
[3:52] <SpeedEvil> (I suspect this is slightly out)
[3:52] <SpeedEvil> But still.
[3:52] <mrdragons> xrandr -o right
[3:52] <mrdragons> :P
[3:52] <SpeedEvil> There are essentially no 4:3 laptops on the market.
[3:52] <SpeedEvil> About all you get is an ipad with one of those fake laptop cases.
[3:52] <SpeedEvil> And that's it.
[3:53] <SpeedEvil> The market isn't always sane.
[3:53] <hamitron> I never got why they all jumped onto widescreen
[3:53] <mrdragons> Eh, sanity is subjective.
[3:53] <ShiftPlusOne> SpeedEvil, but would those who 'want' delay a purchase until there is one available. It's one of those things that nobody is that fussed about. I doubt anyone is as passionate about 4:3 as people throughout history have been about freedom.
[3:53] <SpeedEvil> ShiftPlusOne: I've been delaying buying a laptop, as I find widescreen annoying.
[3:53] <SpeedEvil> ShiftPlusOne: It's not working noticably.
[3:53] * hamitron still uses his p3 laptop because of this
[3:53] <Tachyon`> 4:3 screens make it larger, heh
[3:53] <mrdragons> The majority of people don't give a shit about freedom, quite frankly
[3:53] <Tachyon`> saw some nice 4:3 thinkpads on ebay earlier
[3:54] <hamitron> 1600x1200
[3:54] <hamitron> :D
[3:54] <Tachyon`> mrdragons, indeed, most poeple don't have a bloody clue, heh
[3:54] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, they do, they just don't understand the nature of it.
[3:54] <Tachyon`> they consider me some sort of alien round here just because I vote, which should give you an idea of what I'm surrounded by -.-
[3:56] <Tachyon`> heh, nobody ever sees fascism coming until it's already arrived either, its' quite depressing, someone was recently prosecuted and locked up for reading thigns on the internet, lol
[3:56] <Tachyon`> lucky I don't still have a copy of the anarchists cookbook, I'd likely get 50 years
[3:56] <ShiftPlusOne> Tachyon`, not really.. the book is just awful load of dangerously false information.
[3:56] <mrdragons> You can get arrested for that? In what country?
[3:56] <Tachyon`> england
[3:56] <Tachyon`> ShiftPlusOne, didn't say it was accurate
[3:57] <mrdragons> Oh, well yeah...
[3:57] <Tachyon`> only actually tried the smoke bomb (didn't work)
[3:57] <mrdragons> It doesn't even represent anarchy really
[3:57] <ShiftPlusOne> You can get US millitary handbooks containing all kinds of improv weapons, which are way better than anything you'll find in the cookbook
[3:57] <Tachyon`> years ago mind, as a teenager, lol
[3:57] <Tachyon`> it's just the name
[3:57] <Tachyon`> yesyes, it was just an example
[3:57] <Tachyon`> but this guy had committed no crime
[3:57] <Tachyon`> jsut downloaded some bomb stuff
[3:58] <Tachyon`> btu I think he looked a bit overly islamic
[3:58] <Tachyon`> so got several years
[3:58] <hamitron> serves him right for cheating.... should make up his own designs ;)
[3:58] * Tachyon` snorts
[3:58] <Henchman21> FM 31-20-3
[3:58] <ShiftPlusOne> Tachyon`, there's always a chance you don't have the full story and there are valid reasons
[3:58] <mrdragons> Yeah, UK's gotten pretty bad...
[3:58] <Tachyon`> ShiftPlusOne, while there is a chance, I wouldn't bet on it
[3:58] <Tachyon`> the place is just going to hell lately
[3:58] <ShiftPlusOne> sometimes the media leaves out the important details
[3:58] <ReggieUK> it's fairly questionable downloading information about explosives on the internet
[3:58] <Tachyon`> no, you should be able to download what the hell you like
[3:59] <ReggieUK> if you're going to look at that kind of stuff you'd better have a reasonable reason for doing so
[3:59] <hamitron> within reason
[3:59] <hamitron> ;/
[3:59] <Tachyon`> no, no reason should be required, heh, killing people is illegal, bombing things is illegal, knowledge should not be
[3:59] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, education, curiosity, 'cause I feel like it?
[3:59] <ReggieUK> by your reasoning Tachyon`, people should be able to say and do as they please too
[3:59] <hamitron> something things like child porn is
[3:59] <Tachyon`> say yes, do no
[3:59] <hamitron> some things*
[4:00] <hamitron> tbh, if you think logically, copyright infringement should be legally worse than reading about a subject
[4:00] <Tachyon`> what has kiddie porn got to do with anything?!
[4:01] <mrdragons> Freedom to download anything...
[4:01] <ReggieUK> hamitron has given a prime example as to stuff that shouldn't be downloaded or looked at
[4:01] <Tachyon`> that is just an emotive subject that has nothing todo with the matter at hand
[4:01] <ShiftPlusOne> child porn isn't about knowledge... it's about abusing innocent people... that's not even what we're talking about
[4:01] <hamitron> it is downloadable content
[4:01] <Tachyon`> it's not knowledge
[4:01] <mrdragons> But unfortunately, whenever a means of exchanging information freely comes around, so do CP exchangers...
[4:02] <ReggieUK> but you've tried to justify finding information about explosives 'because you want to'
[4:02] <Tachyon`> oh and now comes the strawmandering
[4:02] <mrdragons> !g strawmandering
[4:02] <mrdragons> Oh wait PiBot isn't here, crap
[4:02] <hamitron> :(
[4:02] <Tachyon`> it's a neologism, just look for straw man logical fallacy
[4:03] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, wanting was one part... the want comes out of a thirst for knowledge... we're all interested in explosives and how they work... there are underlying equations to it all and the chemistry can be very educational. What does that have to do with child porn again?
[4:03] <hamitron> I agree with the case you are making Tachyon` :)
[4:03] <Henchman21> "This is a PG13 channel. Please remember there may be kids in here." -topic #raspberrypi
[4:03] <hamitron> ShiftPlusOne, just pointing out some things online should not be allowed
[4:03] <Tachyon`> at 3am?
[4:04] <Tachyon`> but fine, lol
[4:04] <ReggieUK> ahh, so you're saying it's acceptable because you're removing teh maiming and killing that is done with explosives from your argument/
[4:04] <ReggieUK> ?
[4:05] <Henchman21> feel free to join me in ##conspiracy to talk social/political topics
[4:05] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, when did I say I had any intentions of making any bombs?
[4:05] <Tachyon`> I'm saying killing people should be illegal but knowledge should not, how hard is that to understand?
[4:05] <hamitron> reading about explosive devices is ok imo
[4:05] <feep> hamitron: the thing is, to be able to _say_ something should not be allowed you have to have the infrastructure to prevent it
[4:05] <hamitron> feep, indeed
[4:05] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, knowledge of how to do something has nothing to dow with actually doing it. I know how to stab someone in the face... doesn't mean I am going to do it.
[4:05] <feep> and it's kind of hard to make an infrastructure that can prevent, say, cp but not copyright infringement
[4:06] <feep> and if you can prevent copyinfringement, the media companies will badger you into actually doing it
[4:06] <mrdragons> He said nothing about making a bomb and killing someone; He stated that you should be able to see how they work freely
[4:06] <hamitron> feep, copyright infringement is actually worse than knowledge.....
[4:06] <feep> and then the politicians will badger you into preventing slander
[4:06] <feep> well
[4:06] <feep> "slander"
[4:06] <ShiftPlusOne> hamitron, by what means do you intend to censor certain content? we've already had the internet filtering plans and we've managed to defeat them for now. That was done in the name of "defending the children", but obviously had nothing to do with child porn. If you try to censor it that way, you're going after the symptom of a deeper problem rather than the actual people who produce and publish the material.
[4:06] <feep> and then freedom of expression quietly slits her wrists in a ditch
[4:06] <hamitron> ShiftPlusOne, I agree
[4:06] <hamitron> ;/
[4:06] <feep> that aside
[4:06] <ReggieUK> I don't agree with 'you should be able to see how they work freely' myself, once you have the knowledge you have the ability to act on it
[4:06] <feep> I think copyright is much more harmful to society than copyright infringement.
[4:07] <ReggieUK> not everyone is conscientous over their learning and it's inevitable that someone *will* use their knowledge for bad
[4:07] <hamitron> feep, but in the eyes of the law?
[4:07] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, yes... and we all have knowledge of violence... we all know how to kill. There's a broad line between knowledge and action.
[4:07] <ReggieUK> it's kind of how there are suicide bombers and terrorists
[4:07] <feep> hamitron: the eyes of the law are what the state says they are :p
[4:07] <feep> laws are not moral imperatives.
[4:07] * Tachyon` headdesks
[4:07] <ReggieUK> so, if you have a good reason for learning about bombs and explosives fine
[4:07] <piofcube> Personally... say 20 years ago I wouldn't have complained if they stopped certain newgroups from being distributed... some of those alt.binaries.pictures were so obviously meant for certain..*ahem* "tastes".
[4:07] <ReggieUK> if you haven't then.....
[4:08] <Tachyon`> oh lol, I remember those
[4:08] <mrdragons> So what do you define as a good reason?
[4:08] <hamitron> feep, there are people I would happily kill or see killed.... the law prevents me
[4:08] * victhor (~victhor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:08] <feep> that's good!
[4:08] <mrdragons> Do you trust the government alone with weapons that can kill anything?
[4:08] <tntexplosivesltd> yes
[4:08] <ReggieUK> lets see, you've already outlined a few, chemistry for one
[4:08] <Tachyon`> usenet was a bit wild west
[4:08] <tntexplosivesltd> I do
[4:08] <ShiftPlusOne> piofcube, yup, many newsgroups are legally required to be blocked here. Obviously nobody is complaining because well.. they should be.
[4:08] <Tachyon`> btu still, most of it was fine
[4:08] <feep> basically yeah.
[4:09] <hamitron> it is tough, everyone has different views on different content :/
[4:09] <hamitron> that is why I don't like filtering
[4:09] <hamitron> won't suit everyone
[4:09] <Tachyon`> I don't like it, but we already have it, heh
[4:09] <Tachyon`> luckily I also have a dedi sat in a datacentre near paris
[4:10] <ShiftPlusOne> hamitron, yup... and as you filter some content, there will always be a group pushing to filter some other content as well.
[4:10] <Tachyon`> so if it gets over the top I can just setup a tunnel
[4:10] <hamitron> ShiftPlusOne, yep
[4:10] * hamitron tunnels now
[4:10] <hamitron> fear of my government
[4:10] <hamitron> ;)
[4:10] <Tachyon`> which country are you in?
[4:10] <hamitron> UK/EU
[4:10] <Tachyon`> ah right, 'nuff said, lol
[4:11] * ksx4system_ (~ksx4syste@ancon.mac.info.pl) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[4:11] <Tachyon`> have you seen what's happening during the olympics?
[4:11] <ShiftPlusOne> Tachyon`, what makes you say that tunelling won't be considered as an attempt to work around the law? They could quite easily make tunelling illegal and require all traffic to be unencrypted.
[4:11] <mrdragons> The biggest quelm I have with government censorship is how can you trust them to be truthful?
[4:11] <Tachyon`> they're extending the anti teror stuff over the whole country
[4:11] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: yeah but no
[4:11] <Tachyon`> what are they going to do, inspect every udp packet?
[4:11] <hamitron> mrdragons, indeed
[4:11] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: that'd hit business customers
[4:11] <ReggieUK> Tachyon`, in what way anti terror stuff over the whole country?
[4:11] <Tachyon`> hang on, I'll find the article
[4:12] <ReggieUK> sorry, not being challenging, genuinely interested :)
[4:12] * ksx4system (~ksx4syste@ancon.mac.info.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:12] <ShiftPlusOne> feep, I wouldn't be surprised if they divided traffic into residential and business tiers. And apply the law accordingly.
[4:13] <feep> :/ :\}
[4:13] <Tachyon`> http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/GUNNING-FOR-GOLD/
[4:13] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[4:13] <feep> well we'll see what happens if acta gets blocked
[4:14] <piofcube> The thing that concerns me the most with all of this copyright protection is how will they detect it. AFAIK, the current laws say the owner/agent must have (I forgot the phrase) a more than just a suspician that some content belongs to them. IIRC that excludes the use of data matching because it has too many false positives, yet certain orgs blindly use it and send notices out without even looking at the data collected by the bots.
[4:14] <mrdragons> Internet traffic or literal traffic?
[4:14] <mrdragons> @ShiftPlusOne
[4:14] * tlf82 (~TLF@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:14] <piofcube> They want us to follow the law but many of them don't follow the same laws themselves.
[4:15] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, internet obviously.
[4:15] <mrdragons> Just making sure. :P
[4:15] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, what the hell? do I need to specify I am not talking about air traffic filtering?
[4:16] <ReggieUK> yuk, I cba to read that whole article, I stopped at the point they couldn't name the home secretary
[4:16] <mrdragons> No need to be a dick.
[4:16] <hamitron> imo, internet traffic should be filtered of all illegal activities..... but you gotta be damn sure the laws are right first
[4:16] <feep> they want us to follow the law that they wrote.
[4:16] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, sorry, wasn't meant to come accross that way
[4:16] <ReggieUK> anywho, I'm not surprised that they're stepping things up for the olympics
[4:16] <feep> hamitron: well I disagree, because I think that the law is wrong on copyright. :)
[4:16] <ReggieUK> we've had some run ins with a few groups over the last 20 years
[4:17] <feep> moraaaals
[4:17] <hamitron> feep, so we can all choose the laws we each follow?
[4:17] <feep> not legally~
[4:17] <feep> but practically, yeah
[4:17] <Tachyon`> that's a minor error, he's the defence secretary
[4:18] <Tachyon`> key part: "Section 44 of the Terrorism Act will be enforced over the whole of Britain. Yes, all of it."
[4:18] <ReggieUK> yeah, sort of diminishes the article when they can't get key points correct
[4:18] <Tachyon`> how would you know
[4:18] <Tachyon`> you couldn't be arsed to read it all
[4:18] <ReggieUK> that'd be a key point for me
[4:18] * Gwildor (~Gwildor@adsl-99-181-124-83.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:18] <tlf82> is someone trying to make a SOPA/PIPA type law in the UK?
[4:18] <ReggieUK> enough to make me think it's going to be sloppy journalism
[4:18] <Tachyon`> oh yes, but that's another issue
[4:18] <hamitron> tlf82, the EU
[4:18] <Tachyon`> it's journalism by volunteers, not the BBC, don't expect absolute perfection
[4:19] <ReggieUK> and it's not really reporting an 'issue'
[4:19] <tlf82> ah ok. good luck guys.
[4:19] <ReggieUK> it's ranting (I did read a little bit more)
[4:19] <hamitron> tbh, having the military ready is a good thing ;/
[4:19] <ReggieUK> so, what will 'section 44' being enforced over the whole of britain actually mean in reality
[4:19] <ReggieUK> hamitron, agreed
[4:20] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[4:20] <SpeedEvil> If there is enough military to be ready
[4:20] <mrdragons> I dunno, having the military too ready was a part of the cause of wwI...
[4:20] <mrdragons> And tense international relations, but year
[4:20] <mrdragons> yeah*
[4:20] <ReggieUK> I don't think we're planning to fight europe, just throw a few things and run a bit
[4:21] <hamitron> if something kicks off, I want plenty of guns on my side ready ;)
[4:21] <SpeedEvil> Raspberry-pi + couple of servos + webcam
[4:21] <ReggieUK> on that note, I'm off to bed
[4:21] <ReggieUK> g;night
[4:21] <SpeedEvil> Night.
[4:21] <mrdragons> Heh, nite
[4:21] <piofcube> night
[4:21] <hamitron> nn ReggieUK
[4:22] <ReggieUK> 'night all
[4:22] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5640.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[4:22] <SpeedEvil> http://fatpita.net/images/image%20(1404).jpg on an unrelated not.
[4:22] <mrdragons> Not enough censorship
[4:23] <sightlight> not released yet, the raspberrypi.
[4:24] <mrdragons> Oh hey sightlight
[4:24] <mrdragons> Did you pick yours up yet?
[4:24] <sightlight> no
[4:24] <ShiftPlusOne> well that was a heated spontaneous discussion.
[4:24] <sightlight> its not released
[4:24] <mrdragons> Yeah lol
[4:24] <mrdragons> No hard feelings if any
[4:25] <sightlight> ..
[4:25] <ShiftPlusOne> 'course not.
[4:25] <hamitron> I'm feeling rather good with myself, for not upsetting people badly in a political type debate
[4:25] <hamitron> :)
[4:25] <mrdragons> Meh, if people get offended, let them be offended. Nothing bad happens when you get offended. :P
[4:25] <hamitron> yeh, but I don't care
[4:26] <hamitron> ;)
[4:26] <ShiftPlusOne> Honest people don't get offended in an argument.
[4:26] <mrdragons> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycXuYzmzNg
[4:26] <piofcube> ShiftPlusOne: bah.. that's offensice... *fumes* ;-)
[4:27] <ShiftPlusOne> piofcube, heh
[4:28] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, lol, good video.
[4:29] <hamitron> I have youtube blocked :/
[4:29] * hamitron sulks
[4:29] <ShiftPlusOne> why is youtube blocked?
[4:30] <hamitron> I blocked it to stop users hogging all the bandwidth
[4:30] <ShiftPlusOne> block it for specific users =)
[4:30] <sightlight> im offended for christ sake
[4:30] <sightlight> offended offended ofended
[4:30] <sightlight> omg
[4:30] <sightlight> be ofended
[4:30] <sightlight> !
[4:30] <sightlight> :D
[4:30] <hamitron> I could do ;) but then they can complain I don't follow the same rules
[4:31] <ShiftPlusOne> hamitron, well that's the fun of being the internet nazi overlord.
[4:31] <hamitron> :D
[4:32] <hamitron> I'm offended
[4:32] <hamitron> :/
[4:32] <sightlight> no news about the Pi?
[4:33] <hamitron> like is it out yet?
[4:33] <sightlight> its not out.
[4:33] <sightlight> any plans
[4:33] <sightlight> BTW
[4:34] <sightlight> is drectFB like DIrectX?
[4:34] <mrdragons> No
[4:34] <sightlight> opengl?
[4:34] <mrdragons> No
[4:37] <ShiftPlusOne> sightlight, it's just the most basic way to get pixels on the screen, as far as I know. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
[4:37] <ShiftPlusOne> directx and opengl are complex libraries to draw complex things in complex ways which are very complex.
[4:38] <mrdragons> Pretty much
[4:38] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:38] <sightlight> then I understand that DirectFB is retty much like a graphics drivers.
[4:38] <ShiftPlusOne> exactly what it is, I think.
[4:39] <hamitron> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectFB
[4:39] <sightlight> DirectFB is the are the GPU drivers
[4:39] <sightlight> i see.
[4:40] * Ian3 (56996969@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[4:40] <sightlight> iw the FB going to cause a notiable diference?
[4:40] <sightlight> is*
[4:41] <hamitron> sounds like it should
[4:42] <sightlight> will this include 3D Renderings?
[4:42] <mrdragons> No
[4:43] <sightlight> no?
[4:43] <sightlight> really?
[4:43] <sightlight> only 2d?
[4:43] <sightlight> wow..
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[4:48] * MystX (~MystX@ec2-107-21-100-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[4:48] <sightlight> it should add at least a little bit of stability to the 3D rendering.
[4:50] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@ Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[4:51] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@bl20-221-85.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:51] <mrdragons> It's not really a 3d rendering library...
[4:52] <sightlight> so we get 4fps on quake 3 or is it stable now? I ask :D
[4:59] <hamitron> nn
[4:59] <missPapaya> I have a question
[4:59] <missPapaya> would it be better to connect to a microcontroller through a usb to serial adapter
[4:59] <missPapaya> or through the spi bus?
[5:00] <SpeedEvil> serial is lots simpler.
[5:00] <MartijnVdS> missPapaya: it comes with an UART on board
[5:01] <SpeedEvil> And serial can be debugged
[5:01] <missPapaya> MartijnVdS: I know that
[5:01] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:01] <missPapaya> SpeedEvil: so you're saying the usb adapter would be better?
[5:01] <SpeedEvil> Generally
[5:02] <missPapaya> ok
[5:02] <SpeedEvil> It's simpler, and has fewer issues.
[5:02] <SpeedEvil> And you can test it
[5:02] <SpeedEvil> short rx to tx, and it's a loopback
[5:02] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[5:02] <missPapaya> I know that part :P
[5:03] * r4m (~r5m@173-8-138-134-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[5:03] <SpeedEvil> Not with SPI though
[5:06] <missPapaya> well it does with spi master
[5:07] <SpeedEvil> I mean - you can't do a one-wire loopback or anything
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[8:27] <tntexplosivesltd> oh god he was here
[8:28] <weuxel> who
[8:28] <weuxel> ?
[8:29] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight ._.
[8:35] * LiENUX (~yes@ip68-11-254-175.br.br.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:35] <ShiftPlusOne> he didn't do anything stupid... just asked what a framebuffer was. Nothing wrong with that.
[8:36] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, commented before I read backlog
[8:36] <weuxel> And who is sightlight?
[8:36] <ShiftPlusOne> weuxel, the kind of person you think HAS to be a troll, but isn't.
[8:36] <tntexplosivesltd> never mind, some noob who comes on here
[8:37] <tntexplosivesltd> ShiftPlusOne: it sounds like e expects the pi to ge a games machine T_T
[8:37] <tntexplosivesltd> * he
[8:37] <tntexplosivesltd> * be
[8:37] <ShiftPlusOne> no, he realises he won't get 3000 fps... he'll settle for 300. Let's be reasonable here.
[8:37] <tntexplosivesltd> hahaha
[8:38] <slaeshjag> lol
[8:38] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:8436:e84c:94c4:fa09) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[9:32] <Mowee> Morning
[9:33] * missPapaya (~dconcors@ip70-181-129-173.sd.sd.cox.net) has left #raspberrypi
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[9:38] <Davespice> good morning all
[9:40] <ahven> hello
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[9:44] <zakmes> g'morning
[9:45] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) Quit (Quit: Bye, see you later!)
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[10:05] <RaTTuS|BIG> are we nearly there yet?
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[10:16] <ShiftPlusOne> Maybe, maybe not.
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[10:54] <merlin1991> has there been list of codecs that have hw decoding by now?
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[11:15] <ShiftPlusOne> No, all we have is "1080p30 Full HD HP H.264 Video Encode/Decode"
[11:16] <MagicalTux> in theory, the GPU can be programmed to decode other stuff
[11:16] <MagicalTux> so virtually any codec should work, as long as you have the decoder
[11:17] <MagicalTux> (compiled for RISC)
[11:18] <ShiftPlusOne> MagicalTux, but we don't have tha level of access to the GPU, or are you talking about OpenMAX?
[11:19] <MagicalTux> ShiftPlusOne: I'm talking possibility, and it looks like the rpi team wants to make the GPU available for more stuff
[11:19] <MagicalTux> and even if they don't, someone will reverse engineer it eventually
[11:20] <ShiftPlusOne> MagicalTux, It's like 30MB of binary code. We don't even have the instruction set for it. It's an obscure RISC core.... I don't think we'll reverse engineer the GPU. 'course everything is possible, but that's very unlikely.
[11:21] <MagicalTux> well
[11:21] <MagicalTux> at least we know which instruction set it is
[11:21] <ShiftPlusOne> we do?
[11:21] <ShiftPlusOne> and what instruction set is that?
[11:21] <MagicalTux> I saw something somewhere on the wiki
[11:22] <ShiftPlusOne> orly? O_o
[11:22] <ShiftPlusOne> you sure that wasn't for the CPU?
[11:22] <MagicalTux> I'll try to find it again
[11:22] <MagicalTux> anyway chances are we'll get some help
[11:23] <MagicalTux> even if we can't make these opensource, ways to decode common codecs may appear
[11:23] <ShiftPlusOne> I think our best bet is optimized software decoding.
[11:24] <MagicalTux> hm
[11:24] <MagicalTux> reader_avi.vll: file format elf32-little reader_avi.vll architecture: UNKNOWN!, flags 0x00000150: HAS_SYMS, DYNAMIC, D_PAGED
[11:24] <MagicalTux> the architecture is not given in the elf
[11:24] <MagicalTux> we still got formatted code we can easily compare to known bytecodes
[11:25] <ShiftPlusOne> and the fact remains that GPU code is a whole other animal... even if we have the instruction set, understanding what's going on might be impossible for us mere mortals.
[11:25] <jzu> this is the kind of challenge people on Doom9 will find entertaining
[11:26] <haltdef> <3 this phone
[11:26] <haltdef> install openssh server, upload new music to it while it's charging in my room
[11:26] <ShiftPlusOne> we'll see
[11:26] <ShiftPlusOne> I wouldn't hold my breath
[11:26] <jzu> it all depends on the popularity of the platform
[11:27] <MagicalTux> Copyright (c) 1996-2009 Express Logic Inc. * ThreadX/SMP VideoCore Version G5.3.5.2 (SP1) SN: 3009-115-1301 *
[11:27] <ShiftPlusOne> but on the other hand, there's a lot of interest in.... what jzu just said
[11:27] <haltdef> seems to be getting a lot of attention from htpc types
[11:27] <haltdef> MagicalTux, what's that from?
[11:27] <MagicalTux> haltdef: strings running on one of the loader.bin file
[11:27] <haltdef> got a beta board or something?
[11:28] <MagicalTux> haltdef: yes
[11:28] <haltdef> nice, don't think anyone else with one has showed up here
[11:28] <ShiftPlusOne> if you think about what we have to gain by reverse engineering the GPU code, then there may be a lot of talanted, dedicated people up to the task. But again, 30MB is hell of a lot of code.
[11:28] <ShiftPlusOne> haltdef, there are many people in this channel with boards.
[11:28] <ShiftPlusOne> they just keep quiet
[11:29] <ahven> and play with their boards :P
[11:29] <MagicalTux> ShiftPlusOne: you don't need to read the whole 30MB of code to know what it does
[11:29] <MagicalTux> _fx_utility_FAT_entry_read
[11:29] <MagicalTux> looks like this loader.bin is indeed able to read fat filesystems
[11:30] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[11:30] * TonyHoyle (~TonyHoyle@tonyhoyle.broker.freenet6.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:31] <MagicalTux> it's 300kB of binary data, which contains (at least) stuff to read fat. Just replacing this file would allow (potentially) anyone to execute code as the GPU, which is a first step to discover what it's made of
[11:32] <MagicalTux> it also contains a few asserts
[11:32] <MagicalTux> and paths to .c files
[11:33] <ShiftPlusOne> what file is this?
[11:33] <MagicalTux> ShiftPlusOne: loader.bin
[11:33] <MagicalTux> which, I suspect, is more or less responsible for "We're not currently using a bootloader - we actually boot via the GPU, which contains a proprietary RISC core (wacky architecture). The GPU mounts the SD card, loads GPU firmware and brings up display/video/3d, loads a kernel image, resets the SD card host and starts the ARM."
[11:34] <ShiftPlusOne> how many files are there other than the kernel.img file?
[11:35] <MagicalTux> actually maybe not, I think loader.bin loads start.elf which loads kernel.img
[11:35] <MagicalTux> loader.bin is being loaded by bootcode.bin, I'd guess (one reference found)
[11:35] <MagicalTux> ShiftPlusOne: bootcode.bin cmdline.txt kernel.img lib loader.bin start.elf vlls
[11:36] <ShiftPlusOne> are they downloadable from somewhere?
[11:36] <MagicalTux> my guess so far is: bootcode.bin => loader.bin => start.elf => kernel.img
[11:36] <MagicalTux> ShiftPlusOne: provided on the SD card
[11:36] <MagicalTux> while I have no idea how redistribuable those files are, I don't think anyone can stop me from using strings on these
[11:37] <MagicalTux> and it's quite interesting to imagine how this whole "GPU starts, then CPU starts" thing works
[11:39] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:39] <MagicalTux> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/542981/ <- start.elf has a few interesting sections too
[11:39] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[11:40] <FireFly> haltdef, what phone?
[11:41] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
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[11:42] <haltdef> n900
[11:42] <haltdef> probably doable on android too, certainly not as easy
[11:43] <ShiftPlusOne> MagicalTux, make sure you backup those files. Chances are that they will be modified, so these early beta releases are probably our best bet.
[11:43] <MagicalTux> yes
[11:43] <ahven> I still have a working GTA01, might start using it as server perhaps :)
[11:44] <MagicalTux> it looks like the GPU actually has a scheduler, and can run multiple tasks at the same time, I see many references to pids, and I found a reference to "video_scheduler.c"
[11:45] <ShiftPlusOne> hm
[11:46] <MagicalTux> looks like it can decode rv9
[11:46] * SpeedEvil has a daily rsyc job for media files to n900.
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> (and a GTA01)
[11:47] <TonyHoyle> Coincidentally, video_scheduler.c is the same as a file in limoa, which is an openmax implementation.
[11:47] <FireFly> haltdef, nice, that was my guess :3
[11:47] <MagicalTux> TonyHoyle: middleware/openmaxil/components/video_scheduler.c
[11:47] <haltdef> does rsync use sftp?
[11:47] <haltdef> rather, can it?
[11:48] <Anppa> at least it can use --rsh=ssh
[11:48] <MagicalTux> haltdef: no, it runs another rsync on the other side via ssh
[11:48] <haltdef> ah
[11:48] <MagicalTux> middleware/khronos/common/2708/khrn_hw_4.c
[11:48] <rm> MagicalTux, since the GPU is a whole separate computer it makes me concerned that it might have backdoors/security holes
[11:49] <rm> can easily spy on what you're doing on the main CPU
[11:49] <MagicalTux> rm: actually it could spy only on the display, without any ability to transmit the collected information other than to a screen
[11:50] <rm> most likely it also sees all the RAM and can read/write it
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[11:51] <TonyHoyle> Wouldn't surprise me if there was a chain of trust to stop modification of the bootloaders anyway
[11:51] <MagicalTux> hm, I'd doubt that, but I don't have enough stuff yet to disprove that
[11:51] <TonyHoyle> Any obvious certificates in them?
[11:51] <ShiftPlusOne> rm, and? nothing stopping you from checking what's going through the network.
[11:51] <MagicalTux> anyway the raspberry pi is a device for learning, not for accessing your bank
[11:52] <rm> nope, it's not a device for learning
[11:52] <rm> it's a general purpose computer
[11:52] <ShiftPlusOne> rm, trolling spree?
[11:52] <rm> a slow one and with a small amount of ram
[11:52] <TonyHoyle> So was a BBC Micro
[11:52] <ShiftPlusOne> I'll take that as a yes.
[11:53] <TonyHoyle> It's still a device for learning
[11:53] <rm> TonyHoyle, I do not know much about BBC Micro to agree or disagree
[11:53] <MagicalTux> anyway to see a virus reach the GPU, it'd have to attack the OS running on the CPU first (the side visible from outside) and get root enough to modify the gpu code
[11:53] <MagicalTux> I don't think any virus maker would go through all that trouble once he gets root access to the CPU side
[11:54] <Dagger2> MagicalTux: or it could just get provided to you in that big binary blob you need to load in order to use the thing
[11:54] <MagicalTux> the idea of making a gpu virus does, however, sound cool
[11:54] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[11:54] <rm> MagicalTux, I would imagine some scenarios, but they mostly involve Broadcom or someone at Broadcom being malicious
[11:54] <rm> don't know if you can agree with that possibility
[11:55] <Dagger2> you can argue for as long as yo like about how likely it is to have such a virus in it, but at the end of the day it's a binary blob and you have no way of knowing
[11:55] <Dagger2> you*
[11:57] <ShiftPlusOne> as for chains of trust and all that... I have no idea what that means, but I remember someone asking about it. And yes, it's all there. Someone was asking about locking down the hardware for a kiosk and chain of trust was mentioned by Eben
[11:57] <MagicalTux> anyway before worrying about a virus in the GPU, let's start to understand how it works
[12:00] <TonyHoyle> If there is one, any modification to the bootloader that isn't signed will stop it booting
[12:00] <ShiftPlusOne> Dagger2, sure you do. Like i said, you can always study what's around it. It's kind of like black-box testing. There would be no point in having a virus running on raspberry pi which doesn't transmit anything over the network, for example.
[12:00] <ShiftPlusOne> TonyHoyle, the SUPPORT for it is there... I don't know if it's enabled.
[12:01] <MagicalTux> TonyHoyle: while it looks like start.elf is signed (it got some sections that would suggest so) I don't think the previous stuff is
[12:03] <MagicalTux> http://rtos.com/products/threadx/ <- anyone knows that ?
[12:04] <MagicalTux> found a reference to "thirdparty/vcfw/rtos/threadx/filex/fx_utility_FAT_entry_read.c" which would suggest it's used
[12:05] <ShiftPlusOne> "The device has support for secure (signed, encrypted) GPU boot code, with keys burnt into OTP at manufacture. We"ll be implementing this feature in the first devices, but are unlikely to extend the chain of trust into ARM-land until a later firmware revision, when we understand customer requirements a little better."
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[12:07] * gabriel9 (~quassel@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[12:07] <MagicalTux> well then at least the texts are not encrypted
[12:07] <MagicalTux> and the libs neither
[12:07] <ShiftPlusOne> in all the files?
[12:09] <ShiftPlusOne> anyway, nap time. 'night
[12:09] <MagicalTux> HDMI:CEC failed to queue incoming message from missed Rx interrupt
[12:09] <MagicalTux> lots of debug display in the code, if decompiled it'll make the code easier to understand
[12:10] <Ben64> are there cases for it yet
[12:10] <ShiftPlusOne> Ben64, no, they will be coming out AFTER the device
[12:10] * Cracknel (~cracknel@unaffiliated/cracknel) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:10] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[12:11] <ShiftPlusOne> but don't worry, it will be fine without a case, just don't short anything or discharge static into it. If you're paranoid, a cardboard box will do.
[12:12] <Ben64> I want to keep it all shiny and non-dusty
[12:12] <ShiftPlusOne> cardboard box
[12:12] <Ben64> what about heat, will that be any sort of problem?
[12:12] <ShiftPlusOne> nope
[12:12] <Ben64> saw something about one running fine in 80C
[12:14] <ShiftPlusOne> just don't keep it in the oven. But I am just making this up, I don't know how much heat the CPU/GPU chip emits or tolerates, so maybe a fan wouldn't be a bad idea. But if you have a fan, you'll have dust as well anyway.
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> ShiftPlusOne: the CPU will emit all of the heat of the pi.
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> (pretty much)
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> actually...
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> I suppose on reflection, it may use a linear, not a proper regulator
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> in which case, >50% will be burned as heat
[12:15] <MagicalTux> API: WMV9: image(%dx%d) too large
[12:15] <ShiftPlusOne> I think it IS linear, as smps was too expensive, but that wasn't finalised back when I was following the project, so I don't know.
[12:15] <Ben64> it wouldn't be hard to stick a heatsink on a chip
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> I'm pretty certain they'd go with linear
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> SMPS is at least $.8 more spendy
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> maybe $.6
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> But it's a lot, in volume
[12:17] <ShiftPlusOne> I think mdavey would know exactly what they've done with the power supply
[12:17] <ahven> Ben64: the last numbers were 45C
[12:17] <ahven> Jamesh or Liz post
[12:18] <Ben64> i just want to throw mplayer and a ssh server on it
[12:18] <ShiftPlusOne> Ben64, I think a little fan would be better. If you have just a heatsink inside a box, eventually the heat will build up. If you have a fan, you'll keep the air moving.
[12:18] <Ben64> media server i can control from my phone
[12:19] <ShiftPlusOne> xbmc makes a bit more sense
[12:19] <Ben64> i don't need it to look fancy at all
[12:19] <ShiftPlusOne> and why am I still not sleeping? >=/
[12:19] <ShiftPlusOne> bye
[12:19] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-151-136.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[12:19] <Henchman21> i do love xbmc
[12:19] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) has left #raspberrypi
[12:19] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:19] <Henchman21> been following it since xbmp/xbox days
[12:20] <TonyHoyle> I'm more of a fan of plex, as it does all the grunt work on the server - no worrying if the cpu can handle it
[12:20] <TonyHoyle> But might end up with xbmc to start with
[12:20] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[12:20] <Ben64> i'm not sure how well the xbmc remote for android works
[12:20] <Henchman21> works for my xbox ;)
[12:21] <Henchman21> just the xbox hardware stinks and cant play HD vids with its 64MB ram
[12:21] <Ben64> i've been wanting a rpi for so long
[12:21] <Ben64> i use my laptop right now for media, but it kinda fails on 720p h264
[12:21] <MagicalTux> anyone knows what kind of language this could be? => float sign(float x){ return $$min(1.0, $$max(-1.0, x * 340000000000000000000000000000000000000.0));}
[12:22] <MagicalTux> (found this in the GPU start.elf)
[12:22] <Henchman21> heh
[12:22] <Henchman21> trying to reverse engineer it
[12:23] <MagicalTux> vec4 texture2D(sampler2D sampler, vec2 coord, float bias){ return $$texture_2d_bias(sampler, coord.st, bias);}vec4 texture2D(sampler2D sampler, vec2 coord){ ....
[12:24] <Henchman21> bootlogo?
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[12:28] <SphericalCow> MagicalTux: GLSL?
[12:28] <MagicalTux> SphericalCow: I would guess it's most likely
[12:29] <MagicalTux> vec4/etc seems to match
[12:47] * heraclitus_ (~heraclitu@sa-186-106.saturn.infonet.ee) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[12:57] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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[13:14] <feep> glsl doesn't have the $$
[13:14] <feep> but it definitely looks like it otherwise
[13:15] <feep> it's a little worrying anyway
[13:15] <feep> I really really hope the glsl isn't implemented on the cpu.
[13:15] * Tachyon` (~tachyon@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust489.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[13:23] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> feep: Those are the best GL chipsets :P
[13:26] <feep> and by best you mean
[13:27] <feep> :convincingly mimics a nervous breakdown:
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> feep: </sarcasm>
[13:27] <feep> oe :D
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[13:44] <MagicalTux> feep: I was looking at stuff that goes to the GPU
[13:45] <feep> fun
[13:45] <feep> oh
[13:45] <feep> wait, compilation on the gpu?
[13:45] <feep> that seems bizarre also
[13:46] <jzu> why?
[13:46] <jzu> I think I rememeber something about that
[13:47] <MagicalTux> may or may not be compilation, could just be a blob of text in the .elf
[13:47] <jzu> $$ looks like some kind of placeholder
[13:47] <feep> jzu: well, chip hardware is really really really unsuited for parsing text
[13:48] <feep> like why would you even waste cycles on that
[13:48] <feep> put it in the driver like a sane person
[13:48] <feep> MagicalTux: that makes sense though
[13:48] <feep> s/cycles/circuitry/
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[13:51] <MagicalTux> feep: whatever it is, it contains low level implementations of stuff such as sin()
[13:51] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:52] <feep> fun
[13:52] <feep> MagicalTux: can you pastebin it?
[13:52] <MagicalTux> http://pastebin.com/frsYD8n5
[13:52] <feep> yay
[13:52] * Martix (~martix@134.89.broadband12.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:53] <feep> huh
[13:53] <feep> this is a pretty weird approximation :D
[13:53] <feep> also looks like ssa
[13:53] <Ben64> would this be awesome for rpi? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171506
[13:53] <MagicalTux> Ben64: anything stopping you ?
[13:54] <Ben64> well i don't know if it would support a card like that
[13:54] <feep> MagicalTux: can you find noise2?
[13:54] <Ben64> 45MB/s is pretty crazy for sd
[13:54] <feep> I really really want that to be implemented.
[13:54] <MagicalTux> feep: no occurence of the string "noise2" anywhere in the gpu-side binaries
[13:55] <feep> darn
[13:55] <feep> worth a try
[13:55] <Tachyon`> bear in mind sd speeds should be taken with a large bucket of salt
[13:56] <feep> http://pastebin.com/PGQ2yhv5 sin with pretty layout
[13:56] <Dagger2> 45 MB/s *sequential reads*. I wouldn't assume random writes are fast...
[13:56] <Tachyon`> they're accurate for big files but not for the small files you'll actually be working with
[13:56] <Tachyon`> running a linux off it
[13:56] <Ben64> hm
[13:56] <Tachyon`> I tried running debian from sd on my pandora and boy was it far from 10mb/second
[13:56] <feep> "don't bother, get to grub then boot off a usb drive"
[13:56] <feep> is what I take from that
[13:56] <Dagger2> although http://media.bestofmicro.com/7/2/291854/original/crystaldiskmark_random_write_4kb_qd_1.png says it's actually not anywhere near as terrible as it could be
[13:57] <Ben64> so i should get a usb hdd
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[13:57] <Tachyon`> hrm, looks like I need a sandisk extreme pro
[13:57] <IT_Sean> Most SD cards are optimized for sequential read/write. Also, the benchmarks are typically measuring sequential read/write
[13:57] <MagicalTux> http://pastebin.com/Y3CNHYTK <-- all the code found there
[13:57] <Ben64> or network boot maybe...
[13:57] <IT_Sean> so... as has been said above, those numbers don't mean much for the raspi
[13:58] <Ben64> 12.5MB/s is pretty good
[13:58] <Tachyon`> the trouble isn't really the random access nature of the reads/writes (although that is a factor)
[13:58] <feep> MagicalTux: looks pretty standard :D
[13:58] <Tachyon`> it's more that when you write a small file to an SD card it has to erase a larger block of flash and rewrite the other data in it
[13:58] <feep> I think the $$ are built-ins
[13:58] <TonyHoyle> Most of the reading is the same stuff over and over, so caching makes a big difference
[13:59] <Ben64> I hope I can be one of the 10,000 chosen people
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> Unsequential read isn't bad
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> Ben64: there is no choice
[13:59] <TonyHoyle> As long as you mount the SD with noatime then it rarely writes
[13:59] <IT_Sean> Either way, the speed benchmarks you see on SD cards aare to be taken with a sizable chunk of salt. They don't really apply to the pi
[13:59] <Tachyon`> hrm
[13:59] <Tachyon`> perhaps I need to try that
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> Ben64: you pay the money
[13:59] <feep> SpeedEvil: I think he means
[13:59] <Ben64> I've got $35 sitting here waiting for it
[14:00] <feep> chosen people who manage to click the link before the store crashes
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:00] <TonyHoyle> So in the first 10 seconds then
[14:00] <feep> yes
[14:00] <Aquilus_> Is it out yet?
[14:00] <Aquilus_> :p
[14:00] * SpeedEvil has participated in sparkfun free-days.
[14:00] * SpeedEvil knows how it goes.
[14:00] <Tachyon`> ah right, so if I mount my root fs noatime it won't adjust the time/date stamps
[14:00] <Ben64> I've gotten bags of crap from woot
[14:00] <TonyHoyle> Yeah
[14:00] <Ben64> :)
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> 'we've beefed up our site'
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> 'no, really'
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> 'It won't crash'
[14:00] <feep> 'we've added another five rpis to the load balancer'
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> 'Oh, it crashed'
[14:00] <feep> 'the load balancer is also an rpi'
[14:01] <feep> '.. hey at least we're consistent'
[14:01] <Aquilus_> Haha
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> Well...
[14:01] <Ben64> I was going to make a speedometer from sparkfun on a free day, couldn't get through
[14:01] <feep> speedofart
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> The easy way is 10000 RPIs, all running a web-server.
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> On IPV6
[14:01] <feep> SpeedEvil: .... HAHAHA
[14:01] <feep> that is awesome
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> You simply give them sequential addresses
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> 'Nope, sorry, bought already'
[14:02] <Ben64> was going to be like this... http://www.bttfhardware.com/SpeedometerResized.jpg
[14:02] <Ben64> gps, 7 segment displays, would be amazing
[14:03] <Ben64> SpeedEvil: that means only people with ipv6 could get one
[14:03] <Ben64> sounds good to me
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> Getting 10000 IPV4 addresses may cost more than getting them made!
[14:04] <Ben64> yep
[14:04] <Tachyon`> yeah, all IPv4 blocks have been allocated now
[14:04] <Tachyon`> so I wouldn't count too much on getting that many
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> I want fresh ones, newly minted IPs!
[14:04] * Jettis (~h0h0@a88-112-77-38.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] <Ben64> i have 48 v4's
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> Ben64: I have /48 v6's :)
[14:04] <Ben64> i did my part in killing ipv4
[14:04] <Tachyon`> you should be handing some back if you're not actually using all 48, heh
[14:04] <Ben64> no!
[14:04] <Ben64> they're mine
[14:04] * Tachyon` manages with 4
[14:05] <Ben64> ipv6 needs to be standard already
[14:05] <Tachyon`> well, not counting ISP supplied ones etc.
[14:05] * feep has dynamic ipv4
[14:05] <Tachyon`> yeah, isn't ipv6 day this year sometime
[14:05] <feep> but my isp wants to roll out v6 this year :D
[14:05] <Ben64> already passed
[14:05] <Tachyon`> oh
[14:05] <Tachyon`> oops
[14:05] * Tachyon` needs to pay more attention
[14:05] <Ben64> http://www.google.com/trends/?q=ipv6
[14:06] <koaschten> ok, what is more foolish, to order something from ebay with source shenzhen and expecting that it works as advertised or the fact that i just sent it back to shenzhen for RMA :X
[14:06] <Tachyon`> google askew
[14:07] <koaschten> but seriously, if you advertise a usb thermometer with -40?C - +120?C I expect it to NOT report 254?C as soon as it drops below 0?C....
[14:07] <Tachyon`> rofl
[14:07] <Tachyon`> you're not interpreting the results correctly
[14:08] <Tachyon`> it's twos complement or something probably
[14:08] <Tachyon`> and you're reading it as unsigned
[14:08] <koaschten> I don't care, it was read with the delivered PoS software :)
[14:08] <Tachyon`> oh right
[14:09] <koaschten> Best reply was "you can adjust offset in software"
[14:09] <koaschten> yeah true, by +-8?
[14:09] <koaschten> haha
[14:09] <Tachyon`> I'd just subtract 255 if the value is above 127
[14:09] <Tachyon`> (well, 256 normally but it looks off by one if it's going to 254 and not 255)
[14:11] <Ben64> should be this week for release?
[14:11] <IT_Sean> Ben64: we know as much as you do.
[14:11] <Ben64> damn
[14:12] <IT_Sean> Tachyon`: you purchased dodgy electronics, probably using counterfit parts, from china, and you are surpised it didn't work proeprly?
[14:12] <Tachyon`> I did no such thing -.o;
[14:12] <Tachyon`> koaschten did
[14:12] <Ben64> raspberry pi is from china :S
[14:12] <IT_Sean> oh, sorry... line read fault there.
[14:12] <koaschten> Tachyon` the unsigned vs signed double sounds reasonable
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> Just adapt http://quozl.netrek.org/ts/
[14:12] * Gwildor (~Gwildor@adsl-99-181-124-83.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> if you want a good thermometer :)
[14:13] <IT_Sean> koaschten: you purchased dodgy electronics, probably using counterfit parts, from china, and you are surpised it didn't work proeprly?
[14:13] <koaschten> but well then again... it shouldn't do that in 3 different revisions of the manufacturers software
[14:13] <koaschten> IT_Sean i got it the first time ;)
[14:13] <Tachyon`> well, you'd think not, lol
[14:13] <IT_Sean> Ben64: no, the raspi is being MAUNFACTURED In china. It is not being DESIGNED in china, and it doesn't use shite parts.
[14:13] <Tachyon`> you should try programming for the 6502, its conditional jumps will only go 8 bits signed away from the jump
[14:13] <Tachyon`> did some work on a BBC rom recently after year sof not doing any and had forgotten that
[14:13] <Tachyon`> was rudely reminded with a Range? error when tryign to assemble it
[14:14] <Tachyon`> (most of what I did back then was on teh Z80)
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[14:14] <Ben64> IT_Sean: ok, thought you meant everything from china was bad
[14:15] <IT_Sean> Ben64: did i say that?
[14:15] <Ben64> kind of implied
[14:16] <koaschten> well i admit, the convenience of http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300619217719 was blinding ;)
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> koaschten: true
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> http://s.dealextreme.com/search/usb+thermometer :)
[14:17] <victhor> lol, I have a IR thermometer that just reads 271??C all the time. It used to work, but after years in storage it somehow got defective. Go figure
[14:17] <koaschten> MartijnVdS you will notice the top 3 results are from the same company .... pcsensors
[14:17] <koaschten> ;)
[14:17] <IT_Sean> Ben64: no it wasn't.
[14:18] <koaschten> http://pcsensor.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=31
[14:19] * Ben64 (~Ben64@cpe-76-175-218-76.socal.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[14:25] <koaschten> Tachyon` damn you, now i spent 15 minutes debugging their shitty software to figure out they fucked up the conversion by going binary -> unsigned char instead of binary -> signed char
[14:25] <koaschten> because that would make sense...
[14:26] <koaschten> with my observations
[14:26] <IT_Sean> haha
[14:26] <Tachyon`> yeah, that's what I thought, lol
[14:26] <koaschten> worst is, that probably is a minor fix in their software and i already tossed it in the mail during lunch break >:(
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[14:27] <koaschten> Will i be nice and send them a mail?
[14:27] <koaschten> probably yes...
[14:27] <IT_Sean> bugger 'em
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[14:44] <koaschten> I wonder what kind of reply i get from them ;) http://pastebin.com/RUUUav6p
[14:46] <koaschten> if i get any ;)
[14:50] <Henchman21> how much you pay for that temp thingy
[14:50] <IT_Sean> If you get any response, it will probably be something along the lines of "stop disassembling our soffware!"
[14:52] <TonyHoyle> If you're unluck, a cease and desist saying the same
[14:52] <Henchman21> cause a thermistor and an arduino would've been cheaper/more flexible/ and probably more accurate
[14:53] <IT_Sean> TonyHoyle: i don't think so. The chinese probably stole the code from someone else (and then bastardized it)
[14:53] <TonyHoyle> Probably
[14:53] <Henchman21> and more enjoyment
[14:54] <koaschten> Henchman21 if you can hook me up with an arduino and a thermistor for 15? shipped, sure
[14:54] <TonyHoyle> But I bet they have a no reverse engineering clause in their EULA anyway. Unenforcible, but hey..
[14:54] <IT_Sean> exactly.
[14:54] <IT_Sean> Unenforceable
[14:55] <Henchman21> get what you pay for
[14:55] * Amnesia (~Amnesia@unaffiliated/amnesia) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[14:56] <IT_Sean> Henchman21: not necessarily :p
[14:56] <koaschten> big words and nothing to back it up with eeh?
[14:57] <IT_Sean> me? You want me to back that up?
[14:57] <Henchman21> but you can get an atmega for like 5$ and a thermistor for like 1$
[14:57] <koaschten> no IT_Sean... Henchman21
[14:57] <IT_Sean> ahh
[14:57] <IT_Sean> okay
[14:57] <koaschten> Henchman21 and who pays me to solder it together, get the required circuit parts and psu?
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[14:58] <koaschten> I just wanted something to read temp in windows/linux which i then could evaluate over time
[14:58] <IT_Sean> What are you measuring the temperature of?
[14:58] <koaschten> ambient indoor/outdoor
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> Victims?
[14:59] <koaschten> anally MartijnVdS ;)
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> "Are they cold enough yet?"
[15:00] <koaschten> well going sub-zero.. "are they stiff enough yet" ;)
[15:00] <koaschten> well totally offtopic now :D
[15:00] <IT_Sean> eww... why would you want to measure the temperature of MartijnVdS' anal?
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> ...
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[15:01] <SpeedEvil> To work out if he's cooked.
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> No need to measure, I know I'm hot ;)
[15:02] <R`> pg13...
[15:02] <R`> :D
[15:06] <MartijnVdS> Nice way to kill the mood, R`
[15:06] <MartijnVdS> :)
[15:07] <IT_Sean> pg13?
[15:07] * IT_Sean sighs
[15:07] * IT_Sean puts pants on
[15:11] <R`> anyone else except me that plans to build a pi cluster?
[15:12] <R`> something like herman but with pi's
[15:12] * vgrade1 (~martinbro@cpc2-nrte22-2-0-cust128.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:12] <R`> helmer*
[15:13] <R`> http://helmer.sfe.se/
[15:13] * Miek (~mike@unaffiliated/mikechml) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:15] <rm> except ten times more slow than even a single node of that cluster
[15:16] <IT_Sean> What would you even USE a raspi cluster for? Besides just for the hell of it?
[15:16] * Aquilus_ (~quassel@m060h.studby.ntnu.no) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[15:16] <koaschten> "because he can"
[15:16] <koaschten> ... no use in it
[15:17] <koaschten> also, won't happen unless his whole family orders one
[15:17] <koaschten> because ... first batch, 1 pi per user only
[15:21] <RaTTuS|BIG> but other batches will not have that restiction - so you can ....
[15:21] <R`> exactly, because i can! :
[15:21] <R`> :D
[15:21] <R`> i have no idea what i would use it for
[15:24] <Amnesia> rendering hentai?
[15:24] <IT_Sean> seems a waste of the technology.
[15:27] <koaschten> apropos waste
[15:27] <koaschten> i forgot my potato pancakes in the pan...
[15:27] <koaschten> after 30 minutes they make awesome coasters...
[15:28] <SphericalCow> So how many nodes will your Raspberry Pi Beowulf cluster have?
[15:30] <Aquilus_> 1024, obviously.
[15:30] <SphericalCow> http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/canonical-builds-a-42-core-arm-cluster-server-box-for-ubuntu-20110613/ idea reminds me of this
[15:30] * seekerm (~chatzilla@ Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111228084940])
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[15:41] <ukscone> just had a nutso idea qemu and scratchbox2 vm related. anyone have a working kernel that will boot using qemu?
[15:42] <Stskeeps> look at aurel32's stuff
[15:42] <Stskeeps> http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/armel/
[15:43] <ukscone> well i meant a raspi kernel but i suppose any one will do to test the idea so thnx
[15:43] <Stskeeps> yeah, don't even assume qemu will emulate raspberry devices :)
[15:44] <ukscone> don't care about it emulating the raspi as such but want to try something out
[15:44] <Stskeeps> what are you hoping to do, out of curiousity?
[15:44] <ukscone> well the problem is that sb2 wants a directory tree as the rootfs
[15:45] * Tachyon` (~tachyon@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust489.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:45] <ukscone> but qemu really wants disk images (not 100% true but near enough) but will in theory use a real disk as well
[15:45] <Stskeeps> right
[15:45] <Stskeeps> did you consider NFS?
[15:45] <ukscone> so if i put the rootfs that sb2 wants on a secondary emulated disk in vb
[15:46] <ukscone> can qemu use that to boot
[15:46] <Stskeeps> linux kernel can, so i would assume so..
[15:46] <ukscone> Stskeeps: nfs is another problem to solve but for other reasons
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[15:47] <ukscone> Stskeeps: the qemu-system but is just a stage to be able to deal with nfs and sshfs and some other stuff
[15:47] <ukscone> s/but/bit
[15:48] <Stskeeps> :nod:
[15:48] <ukscone> to test using sbrsh/sbrshd with sb2
[15:48] <ukscone> but no raspi in my paws atm so until theen i'll use qemu
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[16:01] <OneFix_Work> So, are the Model B's still on to be sold this week?
[16:01] <RaTTuS|BIG> all gone
[16:01] <RaTTuS|BIG> jk
[16:02] <Aquilus_> Probably not?
[16:02] <Aquilus_> It was still a "couple of weeks" last week.
[16:02] <OneFix_Work> I ask, because the original January 10th press release indicated B's would start rolling off the line by the end of January...
[16:03] <IT_Sean> OneFix_Work: we know as much as you do
[16:03] <Aquilus_> Rolling off the line, perhaps.
[16:03] <IT_Sean> We can only go by what is on the website.
[16:03] <Aquilus_> In China, or wherever.
[16:03] <rm> they thought chinese weren't for real about the new year
[16:03] <TonyHoyle> And the november one said before Christmas...
[16:03] <rm> 'end of january' wasn't ever realistic
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[16:03] <amazoph> anyone want to bet on an April 1 release?
[16:04] <TonyHoyle> It'll be released when it's released (and sold out 15 minutes later)
[16:04] <OneFix_Work> Well, the initial indication was that the decision to use China was largely based on time-to-manufacture
[16:04] <IT_Sean> Somebody please tell the chinese that the new year starts on 1st January, and to please stop dancing about in the streets and get back to work? :p
[16:04] <IT_Sean> OneFix_Work: no... the decision to mfgr in china was based on cost.
[16:04] <TonyHoyle> IIRC they're already done, but are on a boat on the way here, which takes a while
[16:04] <RaTTuS|BIG> flying here
[16:05] <IT_Sean> I thought they were being sent air freight
[16:05] <TonyHoyle> That's much more expensive
[16:05] <OneFix_Work> TonyHoyle: Yea, boats generally take about 2 weeks to get anywhere
[16:05] <TonyHoyle> Maybe they are, but given their margins I'd be surprised
[16:06] <OneFix_Work> TonyHoyle: I wouldn't be surprised if the first couple of batches were shipped via air...
[16:06] <ukscone> IT_Sean: the decision to manu in china was based on lead time, time to manu AND cost -- eventually most of those things will be moot and they can eventually do it in the uk but not until a few eu mp's have been beaten around the head with a clue by four
[16:07] <OneFix_Work> TonyHoyle: Not really to get the product in people's hands faster (though that's usually a concern), but to make sure that the guys who put up the money can see that the product being produced meets their requirements.
[16:08] <TonyHoyle> Yeah I guess
[16:08] <TonyHoyle> And convinced their bank managers they're for real and not just stuffing money down the back of the sofa...
[16:10] <OneFix_Work> TonyHoyle: Exactly...they generally will send the first couple of batches real fast, then begin shipping via container as soon as possible...most of the times shipping half-full containers...
[16:11] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:11] <OneFix_Work> TonyHoyle: And then the goal is to sell out of your inventory at the same time that you get a new shipment...it's a concept known as live inventory
[16:12] <TonyHoyle> I don't think they know enough to predict demand that accurately
[16:12] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[16:12] <rm> hopefully they'll get a clue after selling 10k in a hour
[16:13] <OneFix_Work> TonyHoyle: Right, but the point is that they still operate under the same procedures...
[16:14] <OneFix_Work> rm: Yea, however there are rumors of other Raspberry Pi like devices...which would mean that demand may end up being spread across a few different manufacturer's designs
[16:15] <ahven> better for the consumer :)
[16:16] * engla (~engla@wikipedia/Sverdrup) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[16:16] <OneFix_Work> ahven: Yea, but the point is that market forces will also determine demand...which is unusual for a non-profit project
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[16:23] <ahven> they have sait it themselves, if others start copying the design, they will be even more happier :)
[16:23] <ahven> even the official arduinos cost more, but that isn't really a good comparison, I know
[16:29] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:29] <rm> more likely copying the idea
[16:29] <rm> you can't get BCM2835 other than from Broadcom
[16:29] <rm> but same thing on Allwinner A10 or whatever, sure
[16:30] <OneFix_Work> rm: One of them is said to be nVidia
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[16:34] <OneFix_Work> Judging from the A10's news site, they are about a month behind the Raspberry Pi project
[16:35] <rm> you mean Rhombus
[16:35] <OneFix_Work> Yea
[16:36] <haltdef> a10 = SoC rather than full blown board like the pi?
[16:37] <rm> and I'd say Rhombus are MUCH MUCH more behind
[16:37] <OneFix_Work> haltdef: So, the A10 is like the BCM2835? I thought they were making a full board...
[16:37] <rm> A10 is a SoC like BCM2835 in RPI is a SoC
[16:38] <haltdef> be cool if they can make that price point happen
[16:38] <haltdef> I can see the raspi starting a bit of a thing :P
[16:38] <OneFix_Work> rm: But they will have a reference board...
[16:40] <TonyHoyle> All the better.. it means there will be loads of cheap computers around
[16:42] <victhor> lol, if that board makes it to production...
[16:42] <victhor> it is possible, but the time to launch they advertise, and most importantly the cost, are a big problem
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[16:44] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Client Quit)
[16:45] <victhor> and most importantly the A10 is too similar to other chinese products in that it offers lots of features for a low price. While this may seem good at first glance, you find out more than half of the advertised features work poorly, or not at all.
[16:48] <victhor> I was reading their mailing list, and one message references a undocumented feature, with the project manager complaining about the lack of documentation
[16:48] <rm> A10 ships today
[16:48] <victhor> another common problem with chinese devices...
[16:49] <rm> you can get a cheap tablet and check it out :)
[16:49] <IT_Sean> ... they are crap?
[16:49] <rm> my experience is: can be rough around the edges, but are mostly a very good deal for the price
[16:50] <victhor> generally yes, but the amazing features tend not to work
[16:50] <ukscone> aarrgghhhhh i hate qemu
[16:50] <victhor> still it's a good deal for a Cortex A8 with a Mail 400.
[16:50] <ukscone> qemu-system-arm: -kernel zImage: drive with bus=0, unit=0 (index=0) exists
[16:50] <MartijnVdS> ukscone: that's OK, it hates you back.
[16:51] <ukscone> it should frigging work but b*****d if it will
[16:51] <rm> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/524312432-Post-Air-Mail-shipment-2012-newest-Ainol-Novo-7-Elf-Ainol-Novo-7-Eif-Ainol-Elf-wholesalers.html
[16:54] <OneFix_Work> One thing the A10 has that makes it real interesting is the SATA-II port
[17:01] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:02] <yang> so any ETA, have the devices been shipped from China ?
[17:03] * gabriel9|work (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:03] <OneFix_Work> yang: I just asked about that...from what everyone says, 3-4 weeks
[17:03] <yang> ok thanks
[17:03] <hamitron> what's the rush? ;)
[17:04] <yang> no rush, just it will probably get first 10k stock sold in 5-10 minutes
[17:05] <yang> so there might not be a chance to obtain one in the first round
[17:05] <hamitron> I'm betting they won't sell so fast
[17:06] <hamitron> site will slow so much, everyone will keep trying
[17:06] <hamitron> ;)
[17:06] <jzu> even in this case, they will get the cash to order the next batch, which should be quick to arrive then
[17:06] <hamitron> jzu, exactly
[17:07] <OneFix_Work> Actually, I'm kind of concerned if the site will be able to handle the transactions...
[17:08] <hamitron> I suspect the site crashing, will be the only thing to delay sales of the first batch, and therefore ordering of the 2nd batch
[17:08] <yang> it can handle, if they would limit the webserver to serve only limited amount of interested people
[17:09] <yang> I mean giving timeouts if the max. amount of buyers is reached
[17:09] <hamitron> that is not really "handling", if users can't access it? ;/
[17:09] <yang> otherwise everyone will just bump on site and crash the server
[17:10] <yang> is it known what form of payments will be acceptable CC/Paypal ?
[17:10] <hamitron> can't you login and see? assume same methods as for the badges
[17:10] <jzu> yeah, so what, that would add maybe 2 weeks
[17:10] <yang> oh
[17:11] <yang> they already sell badges, i didnt know that
[17:11] <jzu> I mean, I've been waiting for *months*
[17:11] <IT_Sean> yang: the pis will be sold via the same shop that sold the stikers.
[17:11] <IT_Sean> *stickers
[17:11] <hamitron> stickers sorry
[17:11] <hamitron> kinda like badges
[17:11] <hamitron> ;)
[17:11] <IT_Sean> jzu: we have *all* been waiting for months.
[17:12] <Anppa> sounds nice, "shop selling pis"
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[17:12] <hamitron> brb, switching comp
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[17:12] <TonyHoyle> Worth pre-registering your account to speed up buying on the day
[17:13] <TonyHoyle> Otherwise by the time you've filled out the form to register the site will have crashed :p
[17:13] * Amnesia (~Amnesia@unaffiliated/amnesia) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:13] <yang> ah cool its paypal
[17:15] <yang> yep
[17:18] * Anppa plans to wait until the initial rush settles down
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[17:18] <hamitron> same
[17:19] <hamitron> not worried if I have to wait till 2nd batch
[17:19] <jzu> IT_Sean: I didn't mean I was the only one :-)
[17:19] <hamitron> because if the 2nd batch never happens.... I may not even want a pi
[17:19] <Anppa> at least until the 1 per address limit is lifted
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[17:28] <traeak> i would like to have case options flushed out
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[17:28] <traeak> i'm not keen on running "bare" hardware
[17:29] <Anppa> DIY is the best case option
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[17:29] <Caver> lego?
[17:29] <Aquilus_> Paper!
[17:29] <IT_Sean> DIY FTW
[17:29] <IT_Sean> Wood!
[17:29] <traeak> yup
[17:30] <traeak> haven't seen enough plans yet i guess
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[17:30] <traeak> the lego link one was dead when i tried to get to it
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[17:31] <zgreg> victhor: some of the features offered by the A10 appear to be "too good to be true" indeed
[17:31] <zgreg> e.g. 2160p video decoding
[17:31] <traeak> the cortex a8 allwinner you mean ?
[17:31] <ReggieUK> ??22 video decoding
[17:32] <traeak> i've been seeing rumblings about 10bit color encoding via x264 which apparently isn't gpu acceleratable anyways
[17:32] <traeak> or maybe just for current gpu code
[17:34] <zgreg> traeak: yes, that one
[17:34] <zgreg> traeak: sure it's possible, but it requires new silicon
[17:34] <zgreg> and nobody is interested in this feature anyway
[17:35] <traeak> i guess
[17:35] <traeak> ppl claiming they can smash down video further using 10bit color encoding is all
[17:35] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[17:35] <traeak> anyways
[17:36] <zgreg> 10-bit is definitely more efficient
[17:36] <zgreg> but nobody apart from a handful of anime fansubbers and encoding nerds is interested in it
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[17:39] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[17:43] <zgreg> OneFix_Work: rhombus one month behind rpi? no, more like 1-2 years behind
[17:44] * vipkilla (~t_dot_zil@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner])
[17:46] <zgreg> also, the 15$ price calculation is quite ridiculuous, to say the least
[17:46] <victhor> I would bet 5 years and $100
[17:47] <victhor> if it gets released, that is...
[17:47] <zgreg> yeah, that's my estimation as well :)
[17:47] * Spikey (50471d41@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:48] <traeak> heh
[17:48] <traeak> of course its vapor
[17:50] <TonyHoyle> $15 wholesale, plus distributor cut, advertising, etc.
[17:51] <TonyHoyle> R-Pi is being made by a charity so can price much lower
[17:52] <TonyHoyle> You start at $15, and before you know it you're at $100 retail
[17:53] <victhor> Pandora anyone? :)
[17:53] <traeak> youch
[17:54] <zgreg> it's ridiculuous to even assume to ever hit "mass volume" with such a device
[17:54] <traeak> i'm amazed it only recently just went on sale finally
[17:54] <zgreg> what rhombus states, basically, is that component prices in mass volume are about 15$ per device
[17:54] <victhor> mass volume = 100 million unit orders
[17:55] <zgreg> they compare to rpi, which is quite unfair
[17:55] <zgreg> >Please note: this price excludes a case, power supply, packaging, shipping, tax, customs and import duty.
[17:55] <zgreg> so what does it include? :D
[17:56] <victhor> no case?
[17:56] <zgreg> victhor: 100k not million, but that's still extremely unrealistisc. especially since they don't do any notable advertising
[17:56] <victhor> then how it is a PCMCIA format card with no case?
[17:57] <RaTTuS|BIG> becase it does not exist [yet]
[17:57] <victhor> zgreg, the guy running it is some clueless guy with no knowledge of system design apparently
[17:57] <zgreg> victhor: yes
[17:57] <traeak> i saw something of late
[17:57] <traeak> the single chip solution dealy
[17:57] <traeak> wait one
[17:57] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[17:58] <traeak> ugh
[17:58] <victhor> just a "gnu/tard" pissed at GPL violations caused by random chinese companies
[17:58] <victhor> and thinking he can make a device to fix that in a year
[17:58] <zgreg> possibly, these are the worst :)
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[17:59] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:59] <traeak> there's one chip that has sata2.0 on board in addition to other stuff
[18:00] <traeak> i guess an armv7, can be a single chip solution, just needs ram (dunno if supports POP or not)
[18:00] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-som-max-mem-phl-135-19.winona.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:00] <traeak> might be the allwinner a10 soc
[18:00] <traeak> has a mali400 i think also ?
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[18:21] <koaschten> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22389
[18:22] <koaschten> whats up, no bot here evaluating the <title> ? ;)
[18:23] * RaTTuS|BIG (~Rattus.bi@ipv4-91-143-179-181.static.as8844.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:24] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[18:25] <Caver> I should be spanking you for that
[18:26] * ahven is too lazy to feed the trolls
[18:26] <Caver> oops PG13 as well now
[18:26] <Caver> sorry class
[18:27] <azalyn> ``That's all good to know. Windows 8 on ARM got a whole lot less appealing last year when Microsoft said it wouldn't be able to run "legacy" x86 apps.''
[18:27] <azalyn> :|
[18:27] <azalyn> ... did people actually think it would run x86 apps?
[18:27] <azalyn> jesus, people are stupid.
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> azalyn: And when they said that any windows-on-arm platform must never ever be able to boot linux.
[18:27] <Caver> I guess a lot did
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> azalyn: To be fair, it's not quite that clear.
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[18:28] <SpeedEvil> JIT recompilation could in principle do quite well.
[18:28] <haltdef> sounds cpu intensive
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[18:28] <Caver> JIT - well thats exactly how qemu works
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[18:28] <SpeedEvil> I thought Qemu did not cache code interpretations.
[18:29] <Caver> you can install and run qemu on a Pi and have any windows you like ... assuming you can get enough memory in there
[18:29] <Caver> turns them into a little C routine, and compiles that if memory serves
[18:29] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-som-max-mem-phl-135-19.winona.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[18:29] * zakmes (~zakmes@095-096-108-128.static.chello.nl) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:30] <Caver> not sure about caching ... from distant memory, I think it does, but not a very big cache
[18:31] <Caver> but I was last following the dev email lists about 3-4 years ago, so things have probably changed
[18:32] <azalyn> they want to force people to write metro apps.
[18:32] <azalyn> which will be signed-only as i understand.
[18:32] <azalyn> hence they want to create a new apps ecosystem that is locked into their platform forever and won't ever run on wine.
[18:33] <azalyn> i have to say, while i don't like android myself, i am glad google is out there fighting the good fight. because i don't like what microsoft and apple are doing.
[18:33] <Caver> maybe ... it's not very known at the moment
[18:34] <azalyn> they could've done something like universal binaries, but it doesn't seem like they want to make it easy to make multiplatform win32 apps.
[18:34] <traeak> ahh an "aside" question...are macbooks anything special regarding reliability ?
[18:35] <azalyn> not really.
[18:35] <traeak> figured so
[18:35] <traeak> i haven't worked with an ylaptop i consider to be reliable for the past few years
[18:35] <azalyn> there are good laptops out there, and bad ones. the macbook isn't any 'better' than other 'good' laptops.
[18:35] <traeak> i think the problem was when intel decide to put thermal throttling circuits on their cpus
[18:35] <traeak> it allowed the manufacturers to get sloppy on their cooling
[18:35] <azalyn> i believe macbooks have some known thermal issues.
[18:35] <traeak> ie: i can easily burn up a laptop
[18:36] <traeak> not surprsed
[18:36] <traeak> core i7/i5 are bad news for cooling based on my experience
[18:36] <traeak> even burned up 3 different alienwares
[18:36] <azalyn> honestly, i'm of the view that the CPUs we put in laptops are way too powerful. the market is a bit unreasonable here...
[18:36] <haltdef> my dell XPS has been fine, sandy bridge i7
[18:36] <azalyn> we should never have started putting close-to-desktop class CPUs in laptops.
[18:36] <traeak> you havean't run our software ;-p
[18:37] <haltdef> tru, I don't think I've ever seen it at 100% usage
[18:37] <traeak> because one of those on the list of burnups (heat crash) is dell xps
[18:37] <haltdef> all video stuff happens in gpu now
[18:37] <azalyn> the situation will probably get better with modern power management though.. newer CPUs are being made to idle at ridiculously low wattages.
[18:37] <traeak> high performance multi threaded stuff
[18:37] <azalyn> and new GPUs especially.
[18:37] <traeak> no a toshiba here i got the ram up to about 130C
[18:37] <traeak> basic processing
[18:38] <traeak> we don't do jack on the gpu, gpus are even worse about power suck than cpus generally
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[18:38] <traeak> we checked...our stuff is about an order of magnitude faster on original core i7 than on a gf460 or something
[18:39] <traeak> its because gpus aren't very good at *much* other than some image processing
[18:40] <traeak> even better our stuff was an order mag faster doing double precision compared to gpu single precision
[18:40] <azalyn> yeah but they are getting better.
[18:40] <traeak> there's too many peopel out there obsessed wiht gpu programming
[18:40] <azalyn> AMDs new GPUs idle at very very low power..
[18:40] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[18:40] <traeak> when we'd be better served with wider/better SSE units
[18:40] <azalyn> and they will keep getting lower and lower.
[18:40] <azalyn> ehh... no traeak.
[18:41] <azalyn> the entire market is moving the other way.
[18:41] <traeak> azalyn: why not?
[18:41] <traeak> for a while perhaps
[18:41] <azalyn> long-term it's SSE/FPU that will fall to the wayside
[18:41] <azalyn> and the GPU will take on all the SIMD responsibilities.
[18:41] <azalyn> eventually the GPU *will* probably be your SSE stuff.
[18:42] <azalyn> like under the microcode they may start sharing stuff.
[18:42] <traeak> the thing that will kill that is the incompatible competing proprietary instruction sets
[18:42] <azalyn> for backwards compat.
[18:42] <traeak> that only works for so long
[18:43] <azalyn> well, AMD has thought that through...
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[18:43] <traeak> point cloud processing is an easy place where gpus fail miserably
[18:43] <azalyn> that's why AMD has opened up their hardware documentation.
[18:43] <azalyn> for the GPU.
[18:43] <imnichol> Hey I have a question that I hope someone can answer: Exactly how powerful will the RaspberryPi(b) be? Could I use it as a router or a firewall?
[18:43] <traeak> imnichol: easily for that
[18:43] <traeak> imnichol: very easily for that
[18:43] <imnichol> How about a firewall?
[18:43] <traeak> i believe it's faster than any commercial sold router out there
[18:43] <azalyn> it's probably a thousand times more powerful than it needs to be for a firewall/router.
[18:43] <imnichol> Oh
[18:43] <imnichol> Ok
[18:43] <imnichol> Awesome!
[18:44] <azalyn> routers/firewalls are so trivial
[18:44] <azalyn> you could do that on a 386
[18:44] <Thorn_> azalyn: dont underestimate the cpu required for a heavy set of iptables
[18:44] <azalyn> from like 1995 or something
[18:44] <Caver> imnichol, one thing to note is it only has one network card
[18:44] <Thorn_> azalyn: a simple passthrough yeah
[18:44] <traeak> ie: the rt-n16 uses a broadcom mips
[18:44] <Caver> can plug another one in via usb though
[18:44] <traeak> not sure about the cpu speed, probably less than 400MHz
[18:45] <Thorn_> the pi should still handle it fine tho
[18:45] <azalyn> Thorn_: the point is, the rpi is more than capable of such mundane tasks.
[18:45] <Thorn_> right
[18:45] <traeak> the issue with rpi isn't the cpu power, it's the available bandwidth for handling routing
[18:45] <imnichol> I'm specifically looking at a SOHO router, so not more than 20 devices
[18:45] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:45] <Thorn_> also not sure how much latency would be added as the ethernet is stuck on the usb bus
[18:45] <azalyn> imnichol: the r-pi can run quake3 at playable framerates.
[18:46] <Thorn_> a minimum of 1ms i assume
[18:46] <azalyn> if there was usb3 it would be better.. but alas, usb3 is too new, so it would've been ridiculously expensive to add it.
[18:46] <Thorn_> maximum of 8
[18:46] <imnichol> Thorn_, was that "maximum of 8" directed at me?
[18:47] <Thorn_> no
[18:47] <imnichol> Ok.
[18:47] <azalyn> traeak: why do GPUs not work for the cloud?
[18:47] <Thorn_> just noting that the added latency from the pi's ethernet (being usb) could be between 1-8ms
[18:47] <imnichol> Ah I see
[18:47] <azalyn> you do know about OpenCL right?
[18:47] <azalyn> it doesn't really matter what the native instructions are. if you do it all in opencl.
[18:47] <traeak> azalyn: maybe for the cloud, but pretty limitd usefulness for some things
[18:47] <imnichol> I didn't realize that the ethernet was going to be on the USB
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[18:48] <Thorn_> there is 1 usb lane from the SoC which connects to the Lan9512
[18:48] <traeak> azalyn: to give you a rough idea, basically all the imagery you see on google maps/virtual earth has been touched by our software
[18:48] <Thorn_> so that 1 lane is shared between the 2x usb and 1x eth
[18:48] <traeak> azalyn: geometrically correcting the collected imagery is really really stupid to do on a gpu
[18:49] <Thorn_> is that why none of it is aligned properly
[18:49] * Thorn_ ducks
[18:49] <traeak> azalyn: and its too much work to try to jam a sophisticated optical model into a gpu, it produces shit quality (PCI geomatics does that and we only hear complaints that they produce shit result)
[18:49] <azalyn> the problem is that the GPU is so much more powerful and capable than SSE stuff. and yet, SSE is sort of like having some simple GPU-like stuff (both are SIMD), in your CPU.. this is why both AMD and Intel came to the realization that they needed to merge CPU and GPU into one package.. because with SSE what they were doing is slowly implementing a GPU already... piece by piece.
[18:49] <imnichol> Thorn_, so I wouldn't want to be running anything else off USB if I was using it as a router?
[18:49] <azalyn> or at least, they were implementing the same basic stuff.. SIMD stuff..
[18:49] <Thorn_> imnichol: right
[18:49] <traeak> azalyn: the cool part about SSE unitsw are that using stuff like <algorithm> gets automatically accelerated by the compiler with no special crap
[18:49] <azalyn> so they figure, why not just build the GPU into the same die?
[18:49] <traeak> no driver headaches, not performance instability
[18:50] <traeak> putting a gpu on the same die should help tons with latency problems
[18:50] <traeak> but not with scheduling problems
[18:50] <traeak> for doing radiometric correciton gpus help, however
[18:50] <azalyn> traeak: that's more an issue with windows and proprietary drivers in my view. that's why AMD opened their hardware docs. the gallium infrastructure in linux solves this problem elegantly. and we just need to optimize it long-term.
[18:50] <traeak> if you're cranking yoru cpus how do you do multithreaded cpu applications in conjuction with GPUs?
[18:51] <traeak> the gpu performance is too unpredictable
[18:51] <traeak> its a huge bottleneck issue regardless
[18:51] <traeak> azalyn: hopefully so, however instability in performance means running a next gen amd gpu vs current gen gpu vs X core stuff is a headache
[18:52] <azalyn> with llvm, the performance issues aren't really a big deal.
[18:52] <traeak> azalyn: and frankly, the sandy brige-e utterly destroys anything amd has to offer computationally by about a factor of 4x or so
[18:52] <azalyn> uh... 4x is a little bit of an exaggeration.
[18:53] <azalyn> and amd leads in GPU performance.
[18:53] <traeak> hehe
[18:53] <azalyn> which long-term is where all the money is.
[18:53] <traeak> when you plug in intel's new AVX instructions that helps *tons*
[18:53] <azalyn> amd has AVX too though...
[18:53] <azalyn> and FMA4
[18:53] <traeak> my poitn of view is from high performance stuff
[18:53] <traeak> i only have access to a couple of quad socket amd servers
[18:54] <traeak> and in december i put together a 3930k for testing
[18:54] <azalyn> i'm waiting on piledriver to be released.
[18:54] <traeak> the amds were built in may or so
[18:54] <traeak> no comparison, the sandy bridge e kills the amd on heavy multi core stuff
[18:54] <traeak> gpu wise? can't say much, only dabbled a touch with that
[18:55] <azalyn> long-term maybe GPUs will be addressed directly by the compiler. who knows. AMD is certainly well set up for this since they've actually been contributing specs to the community.
[18:55] <azalyn> and code.
[18:55] <traeak> it well could be the guys who were building a real time lidar colorizer were purely incompetent
[18:55] <traeak> azalyn: i can only hope that helps
[18:55] <traeak> azalyn: part of the stuff we do is a very fast generalized ray caster
[18:56] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[18:56] <azalyn> but you have to recognize it's kind of a waste to start duplicating the GPU inside the CPU and only doing it half-way, which is the road that SSE started on... eventually you have an epiphany and realize that you're essentially designing the beginnings of a GPU, and suddenly just say "why don't we just go all the way and make a *whole* gpu then? and merge it into our CPU core?"
[18:56] <traeak> why ?
[18:57] <azalyn> why? because it's more elegant?
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> SSE is useful for lots beside GPU
[18:57] <traeak> that could be true, taking some pieces of the gpu
[18:57] <traeak> programmable units that have nothing to do with graphics, those are just side effects
[18:57] <traeak> yup, general purpose stuff
[18:57] <azalyn> long-term, everything is moving to system on chips.
[18:57] <traeak> yup
[18:57] <azalyn> amd and intel want to compete with arm.
[18:57] <traeak> the last step is putting the ram on the SOC so its truly a one chip/die solution
[18:58] <azalyn> and they *will* eventually get within arm's power envelope.
[18:58] <ctyler> SSE and friends are actually really useful for RAID calculations, and some types of crypto
[18:58] <azalyn> it's not a matter of if, but when.
[18:58] <traeak> and SSE units don't have latency penalties
[18:58] <traeak> and they're not butting heads with multi threading
[18:58] * wiiguy (fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:58] <azalyn> i'm not saying they're not useful. i'm saying long-term you might see a unification..
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[18:58] * stereohead-away is now known as stereohead
[18:58] <azalyn> AMD just added a bunch of MIMD stuff to radeon 7xxx series..
[18:58] <ctyler> azalyn: I don't think so, until they trim a lot of the backwards-compatibility baggage. The x32 and x64 instruction modes, which drop a lot of baggage, are a step in the right direction, but don't drop enough baggage
[18:58] <azalyn> which is pretty hardcore.
[18:59] <azalyn> ctyler: the baggage isn't really as big of a problem as you seem to believe..
[18:59] <azalyn> ARM also is working on a 64bit cpu by the way.
[18:59] <azalyn> so they'll have that baggage too.
[19:00] <azalyn> eventually even mobile will need 64bit. not for awhile longer..
[19:00] <traeak> x86 is relly bad about all the cruft
[19:00] <azalyn> but there's no reason that suddenly they'll say "well.. our mobiles have enough memory. let's call it quits."
[19:00] <traeak> arm bugs me because it seems like its exponentially increasing its own baggage
[19:00] <ctyler> azalyn: yes, but ARM is dropping stuff as they go. Thumb and Jazelle are both gone from v8.
[19:01] <traeak> good
[19:01] <ukscone> not sure how safe it'll be but now sharing a "real" harddisk with qemu-system and sb2 as rootfs. so changes in sb2 are done in the running qemu-system and vice versa
[19:01] <traeak> unfortunatley that does make arm a headache
[19:01] <traeak> the again it's usually not too wise to hand code a bunch of assembly
[19:01] <azalyn> yeah but most of the real baggage in x86 is in the microcode... that was the real innovation of intel's original pentium pro. although i think their competitors at the time beat them to it.
[19:01] <traeak> which is what arm is hurting
[19:01] <ukscone> got some problems with udev, modules and permissions but W00T!!!!
[19:02] <traeak> i don't have an rpi yet but i bet the achilles heel will be IO throughput
[19:02] <azalyn> modern x86 processors *are* internally RISC microarchitectures. with a small microcode layer on top that just translates the legacy x86 stuff into more RISC-like internal instructions.
[19:02] <traeak> but then again, considering it's supposed to be a more power arduino it'll do fine in that arena
[19:02] <azalyn> which means they have the same manufacturing/design simplicity as RISC
[19:02] <azalyn> but with x86 compatibility.
[19:02] <Caver> ukscone, well done
[19:03] <azalyn> the real reason they haven't been competitive in mobile is *not* because x86 has baggage... not at all. it's because the market up until the past few years was all about desktops/servers/etc .. high performance CPUs.
[19:03] <azalyn> and amd/intel didn't care about the low end as much.
[19:03] <rm> oh oh
[19:04] <rm> ukscone, which HDD to select in qemu-system?
[19:04] <azalyn> and if they did, they did have separate low-end stuff. intel used to own xscale. their own arm arch
[19:04] <rm> I mean.. which driver. I was trying to install Debian from a netinstall image for Versatile
[19:04] <traeak> "small" layer? i can't find any numbers offhand for what percent the x86 decode die size is but most claim that it's "substantial"
[19:04] <rm> and it can't see no disks
[19:04] <traeak> azalyn: intel dumped xscale, they no longer play there
[19:05] <azalyn> traeak: like i said... "used" to own.
[19:05] <traeak> anyways
[19:05] <azalyn> my point is that only recently have they actually been interested in going after mobile. because now it's posing a threat.
[19:05] <traeak> but they are limited because of the x86 baggage
[19:05] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-vbuqpddxdazcuskz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:06] <traeak> which hopefully the new mobile ones drop a lot of compatibility
[19:06] <azalyn> so they're redesigning their chips, doing way more sharing. and unifying more and more and more. i assure you, the 'baggage' will not stop them from being competitive.
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[19:07] <azalyn> they don't need to drop compatibility really.. think about modern power management.. they can just let unnecessary stuff go dark.
[19:08] <azalyn> compatibility is the only value x86 really has. they won't abandon it. that's their strength.
[19:08] <azalyn> instead they'll use creative power management to make the chips more competitive, while retaining compatibility when it's needed. different parts of the chip will sleep and wake on-demand when needed.
[19:09] <traeak> perhaps, but for now profitability is directly related to die size
[19:09] <traeak> how many chips per wafer
[19:10] <traeak> intel holds some edge there but to do this they must always hold a relatively large edge
[19:10] <traeak> hmm
[19:10] <azalyn> yeah.. and their mobile offerings have been shrinking more and more..
[19:10] <traeak> anyone know how many transistors the RPI has totally ?
[19:10] <traeak> but still not low enough power wise
[19:10] <azalyn> AMD fusion is pretty incredible. and it's only going to get smaller.
[19:11] <Caver> traeak, now thats a good question
[19:11] <azalyn> the r-pi isn't exactly what amd and intel are targetting.. that broadcom chip isn't really on many smartphones i would guess.. nor tablets.
[19:11] * spikey (50471d41@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:11] <azalyn> they're targetting mostly anything used on mainstream tablets/smartphones.
[19:12] <traeak> and x86 compatibility doesn't matter *jack* for that market
[19:12] <azalyn> and they will be able to compete. at first with more power usage of course..
[19:12] <azalyn> but it's not going to get worse, it's only going to get better.
[19:12] <Stskeeps> think the nokia n8 is similar-ish to the chip we have
[19:12] <azalyn> traeak: that's what you say... but there will be x86-based windows 8 tablets it seems.
[19:12] <traeak> it's a shame mips didn't get in earlier but apparently MIPS is more efficient than arm (perf/watt)
[19:13] <traeak> azalyn: and windows tablets sell so well today
[19:13] <traeak> and windows phone sells so well today
[19:13] <azalyn> MIPS is very minimalistic. it's a great arch. but it's more difficult to do assembly on it.
[19:13] <traeak> ie: MS is very very late to the party
[19:13] <traeak> and i'm happy to see MS notbe assholes in yet another market
[19:13] <azalyn> yeah, and i hope they die too.
[19:13] <traeak> although apple is a worthy competitor for that title
[19:14] <azalyn> even so, i suspect that google is going to cooperate with intel/amd as well..
[19:14] <Caver> sad but essentially true
[19:14] <traeak> fighting with the MS compiler remninds me how bad MS really is
[19:14] <azalyn> i don't like them or apple either.
[19:14] <azalyn> i hate apple more though.
[19:14] <Caver> what do you like?
[19:15] <traeak> apple is more blatant about wanting to abuse the market, they always have been
[19:15] <azalyn> linux, opensource.
[19:15] <traeak> although i curently prefer linux it owuld be nice to have something more innovative out there
[19:15] <azalyn> opensource more specifically is what i like. but i support linux because it's sort of a flagship.
[19:15] <traeak> i really would hope the rpi would allow for otheros innovation
[19:15] <traeak> it may be where it lacks most
[19:16] <traeak> and where this mali400 driver looks very inviting
[19:16] <Caver> well there is the RISC OS port
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[19:16] <azalyn> and it would be foolish to try and promote something else like bsd. the way i see it, a win for linux is a win for all other opensource operating systems too.
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[19:16] <Caver> which even if it's not a modern OS, is at least interesting
[19:16] <azalyn> because at least there is openness.
[19:16] <traeak> yes, but bsd tends to be an abomination. MACH is a total POS
[19:16] <azalyn> what does mach have to do with bsd?
[19:16] <traeak> l4 at least was a step forward there
[19:17] <azalyn> apple uses mach, bsd doesn't.
[19:17] <azalyn> well, bsd can, but it usually doesn't in practice..
[19:18] <azalyn> i discovered though recently that even for linux, x86 compatibility is sort of an issue.. and not for binary-only apps like you might think..
[19:18] <traeak> so they finally killt that old crap, good
[19:18] <traeak> howzat?
[19:19] <traeak> i'm kind of interested in plan9 as a basis, but i'm not deeply into that
[19:19] <azalyn> even for opensource distros, there is just a large lack of availability in terms of pre-compiled distros for other architectures. this may be because most other arches don't have a standard BIOS like the x86 world does.. so you can't just make 'one' distro that works on all arm machines, or one to work on all MIPS machines.. unfortunately.
[19:19] <traeak> and i'm not interested in the rpi for hardware control...
[19:19] <azalyn> i wanted to buy a small embedded board to use for a router..
[19:19] <traeak> well there's the bootstrapping
[19:19] <rm> Debian
[19:19] <azalyn> i was looking at the MIPS-based router-board at one point.
[19:19] <traeak> for a lot of these devices drivers for connected LCD panels are a problem
[19:20] <traeak> since they don't typically use "standard" hardware interfaces
[19:20] <azalyn> and that company sells you the hardware, and then sells you their own linux distro for it
[19:20] <Caver> nods
[19:20] <azalyn> which has a properitary interface
[19:20] <Caver> ick!
[19:20] <azalyn> proprietary**
[19:20] <traeak> and usually that company contracts out the linux port
[19:20] <traeak> and doesn't have access to what's needed to fix the GPL violations
[19:21] <azalyn> and i couldn't find a full opensource distro for that hardware..
[19:21] <azalyn> i've seen things like the 'sheevaplug'
[19:21] <Caver> I hope the binary blob we get is doing to be able to switch on the DSI out
[19:21] <azalyn> which is like a PC you plug into an AC power outlet
[19:21] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:21] <azalyn> and that too.. can't really find a distro for it..
[19:22] <azalyn> and yeah, maybe you could get it on yourself, like with debian and something
[19:22] <azalyn> but my point is it's hard to find "out of box" solutions where you just install and go.
[19:22] <azalyn> like monowall or whatever for example.
[19:22] <azalyn> but if you go for embedded-x86..
[19:22] <azalyn> like with AMD's geode processors
[19:22] <Soul_Est> I just hope the binary blog will be able to support later versions of the linux kernel. I'll only run Arch on it when I get one.
[19:22] <azalyn> suddenly, you have plenty of options
[19:22] <Soul_Est> *binar blob
[19:23] <azalyn> because everyone supports x86.
[19:23] <azalyn> and you have monowall and pfsense
[19:23] <Soul_Est> and vyatta
[19:23] <azalyn> which are great packaged up router/firewall solutions
[19:23] <Caver> pfsense these days
[19:23] <azalyn> and run on generic x86 and embedded x86 stuff.
[19:23] <Soul_Est> what about embedded openbsd?
[19:24] <azalyn> so anyways, in the end i had to get an alix x86 board for my project. because that was the most convenient way.
[19:24] <azalyn> i didn't want x86 for a router... but i ended up sort of getting it because it was the most convenient in terms of options available.
[19:25] <azalyn> and yet it's not and issue of closed source as you see.. this stuff is opensource, it just isn't commonly as available for non-x86 platforms in an out-of-the-box package.
[19:26] <azalyn> and = an
[19:26] <azalyn> (second 'and')
[19:27] <azalyn> food for thought. hehe
[19:29] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[19:33] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-gld-kry-wat-139-254.winona.edu) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:38] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[19:38] <sightlight> hello
[19:41] <Soul_Est> Hi sightlight
[19:42] * uen| is now known as uen
[19:47] <sightlight> so there is some discusion on the forums that the Pi can handle a windows basic.
[19:47] <sightlight> seriously talking..
[19:49] <haltdef> what is a windows basic
[19:49] <zer0her0> windows 7 basic i'm guessing?
[19:49] <Tobias|> I'd assume they're talking about Windows CE
[19:49] <zer0her0> like the starter edition or something?
[19:49] <zer0her0> Tobias|, ah good guess.
[19:49] <Tobias|> which supports ARM
[19:50] <zer0her0> oh duh right.
[19:50] * wcchandler (~william@cpe-069-134-244-245.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] <Soul_Est> wasn't windows 8 supposed to support arm in some variant as well?
[19:54] * r4m (~r5m@173-8-138-134-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:54] * MystX (~MystX@ec2-107-21-100-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] <Soul_Est> MS hasn't done much with windows ce since the Windows mobile 6.5 days.
[19:55] <MystX> They havent done much with anything
[19:55] <Soul_Est> +1 MystX
[19:55] <Soul_Est> hence why I dont use anything ms anymore
[19:56] <MystX> Yaaaay. Same except for gaming
[19:56] <tntexplosivesltd> oh, it's sightlight
[19:56] <MystX> But as youd expect, my 360 is Rrod'd atm
[19:56] <Soul_Est> MystX: not even for gaming. Wii, PSP, Android phone FTW
[19:56] <MystX> Hurray for terribleness
[19:57] <Soul_Est> MystX: that ms for you.
[19:59] * r4m (~r5m@173-8-138-134-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:02] <azalyn> what is this obsession with running windows on the r-pi...
[20:02] <azalyn> seriously.
[20:02] <azalyn> windows is completely useless if you don't have x86 compatibility.
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> Not true.
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> Win-ce is windows too.
[20:02] <azalyn> no, you're not getting it...
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> There are useful satnav programs in principle.
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> I don't think winece exists though
[20:03] <azalyn> i'm not saying windows won't run without x86, i'm saying it's useless without x86. it's a brick.
[20:03] <MystX> Also, i heard microsoft likes men
[20:03] <azalyn> the only useful windows software is on windows-x86.
[20:04] <azalyn> that is the *only* thing that has kept windows dominant for so long. it's their vendor lockin advantage. the massive back catalog of apps.
[20:04] <azalyn> especially games.
[20:04] <azalyn> and stuff like photoshop, etc.. which are exclusive.
[20:05] <azalyn> well, for the most part.
[20:05] <azalyn> MystX: ...?
[20:06] <ctyler> I've been encouraged to see more and more of my kid's peers using gimp, FF, and OOo on Windows for that reason.
[20:07] <azalyn> photo editing people seem to hate gimp for some reason.
[20:07] <ctyler> The less that the exclusive back catalog is used by the next generation, the easier it will be for them to switch platforms. The iPad is actually helpful in that regard.
[20:07] <azalyn> i'm not too familiar with the differences since i never got into photoshop.
[20:07] <azalyn> is it just lack of features, or is it a familiarity thing?
[20:07] <azalyn> i mean my experience tells me it must be familiarity issues.
[20:07] <ctyler> I wonder if the Gimpshop project is still alive (the Gimp with the menus and tools rearranged to work more like photoshop)
[20:08] <azalyn> the ipad is just another walled garden though... :|
[20:08] <azalyn> that's just yet *another* ecosystem to get locked into.
[20:08] <azalyn> where if you decide to switch, all your apps and content are locked in there.
[20:08] <azalyn> because of DRM
[20:09] <azalyn> at least with windows we have wine, which is a halfway decent solution, and a pretty awesome one for some apps. many games now run great in it these days..
[20:09] <azalyn> apple stuff is so locked down, and once you get trapped in their ecosystem, there is no escape.
[20:09] <azalyn> they have less marketshare, but their business *model* is more dangerous and harmful.
[20:09] <azalyn> and more restrictive.
[20:10] <ctyler> yes, but the iPad, and Android, etc. have shown people that there they don't have to stick to their comfy familiar apps, and I think made them more receptive to alternative UIs and sw.
[20:10] <azalyn> that is probably true. but like i said.. the DRM means that they will have a difficult time switching to other things.. for completely different reasons.
[20:11] <azalyn> and the DMCA makes it a crime to break DRM or even share tools to do it.
[20:11] <azalyn> or tell people where to get tools.
[20:11] <azalyn> etc.
[20:11] <azalyn> it's such a horrible system.
[20:11] <azalyn> i'm glad that google is out there though. android is more open at least.
[20:11] <ctyler> agreed. Nice to see Google commit to data liberation for their online stuff.
[20:12] <azalyn> hopefully they'll crush the walled gardens.
[20:12] <azalyn> the next version of gimp is making changes that might get the photoshop crowd to like it a bit more.
[20:13] <azalyn> they're doing a single window interface. (the old multi-window UI will still be available too)
[20:13] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] <azalyn> and lots of usability enhancements.
[20:13] <Soul_Est> azalyn: gimp 2.8
[20:14] <Soul_Est> the devel version of it 2.7.x will be getting the single-window setup first
[20:14] <Soul_Est> the project wil be moving the gegl (opengl) as it's backend too.
[20:16] <ctyler> cool
[20:18] * MuNk (~MuNk@2001:470:1f09:1ec1:210:75ff:fe1a:bdb0) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[20:26] * CustomTronics (~mjtessmer@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:27] <MystX> Is it out yet?
[20:27] <sightlight> not released yet :(
[20:27] <MystX> Damn
[20:28] <MystX> Does it have more ram yet?
[20:28] <sightlight> not released yet
[20:28] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[20:28] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@gateway/indt/session) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:28] <haltdef> is it a gaming machine yet?
[20:28] <haltdef> :P
[20:29] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:29] <sightlight> not released yet
[20:30] * stereohead is now known as stereohead-away
[20:30] <MystX> But can i run steam?
[20:30] * TonyRogers (~rogers@ladymoor-gate.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:32] <tntexplosivesltd> also can we play quake at 400FPS? That's all I want it for
[20:32] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure.
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> Is 400fps fast enough?
[20:33] <tntexplosivesltd> it should be
[20:33] <MystX> just
[20:33] <tntexplosivesltd> my computer's 2 years old and it only does it at like 100
[20:33] <tntexplosivesltd> so this brand new one will be much better
[20:37] <sightlight> Pi gaming rig
[20:37] <sightlight> I see the Pi quite capable to.
[20:37] <ctyler> is that a gaming Pig?
[20:37] <sightlight> many programing for it
[20:37] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> It can do nethack at ~800fps
[20:39] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net245-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:40] <azalyn> 2.7.x is out already i believe.
[20:40] <azalyn> it's just the 2.8 'stable' that isn't.
[20:40] * djazz1 (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:41] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:42] <tntexplosivesltd> sightlight: woooow.... I was kidding man
[20:43] <MystX> azalyn: SINGLE WINDOW. OMG
[20:46] <azalyn> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2010/02/hands-on-new-single-window-mode-makes-gimp-less-gimpy.ars
[20:46] <azalyn> right thar ^
[20:46] <azalyn> http://static.arstechnica.com/gimp/singlewindow.png
[20:46] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:47] <ctyler> single window! That's so ... Windows 3.11 MDI :-S
[20:47] <sightlight> no news on when the release date?
[20:47] <Soul_Est> azalyn: ah thank you. being stuck on mac os x leaves me with the gimp 2.6 for now
[20:48] <ctyler> sightlight: no
[20:48] <azalyn> ctyler: it's an option. you can use multi-window too if you want.
[20:48] <tntexplosivesltd> yay, gimp's gonna be better
[20:48] <Soul_Est> sightlight: most likely like the raspberry pi release. Don't ask for ETAs!
[20:49] <Soul_Est> sightlight: you may have to compile it from source
[20:49] <azalyn> also, the problem with non-MDI interfaces is that they aren't really scalable. modern systems can multitask like crazy... and it's not uncommon to fill up your window list with top level windows.. :\
[20:50] <ctyler> but MDI isn't optimal for multi-monitor setups.
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[20:50] * izua (~izua@ Quit (Changing host)
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[20:50] <azalyn> browsers especially created problems with opening up massive amounts of windows..
[20:51] <azalyn> ctyler: yes it is.. depending on how many windows you're dealing with. like with browsers, you don't have 100 monitors to put your 100 browser windows onto..
[20:51] <azalyn> so tabs make sense in those cases.
[20:52] <MystX> I just dont like the gimp interface. even though i have 2 monitors
[20:52] <MystX> I like to keep one program to one monitor
[20:52] <azalyn> in the case of gimp, it's like 3 windows or something. which is more manageable, and works well on multiple monitors. but that's why they make the new interface optional.
[20:53] <azalyn> and not mandatory.
[20:53] <azalyn> i'm not even sure if they're going to enable it by default.
[20:53] <azalyn> it may be that you'll have to enable it yourself.
[20:53] * djazz1 is now known as djazz
[20:54] <azalyn> the funny thing is though, that photoshop on mac has multiple windows too. exactly like gimp.
[20:54] <azalyn> on windows it has a "window-in-window" MDI.
[20:54] <Soul_Est> azalyn: how ironic XD
[20:54] <azalyn> which still means there's multiple windows.. but they're inside another window. which is sort of stupid
[20:55] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:55] <azalyn> generally MDI has been accepted by modern design people because they realize it's needed for modern multitasking requirements.
[20:55] * schigndix (~schigndix@ Quit (Quit: Bye)
[20:55] * Frna (0266ada4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:55] <azalyn> but window-in-window mdi specifically is pretty much considered a bad idea all the time.
[20:56] <Frna> Hey guys
[20:56] <Frna> Questions
[20:56] <Soul_Est> shoot
[20:56] <Frna> How is linux with wireless keyboards?
[20:56] <azalyn> i mean it makes no sense.. why put a window in another window.
[20:56] <azalyn> Frna: fine.
[20:56] <Frna> Because I've found a damn small, handheld keyboard with touchpad and everything.
[20:56] <Soul_Est> Frna: should be just fine
[20:56] <Frna> Only it's wireless.
[20:56] <Frna> Brilliant.
[20:56] <azalyn> Frna: the wireless functionality is usually done in a way that is invisible to the operating system.
[20:56] <Frna> Only trouble now is making a case. Hardest part of the whole thing by far.
[20:57] <Frna> Sweet.
[20:57] <Soul_Est> Frna: does it connect via bluetooth or a usb dongle though?
[20:57] <iMatttt> Oh, anyone know if the RaspberryPi is capable of emulating n64?
[20:57] <Frna> USB wireless dongle.
[20:57] <Frna> 2.4ghz
[20:57] <MystX> Ah then youre sweet
[20:57] <azalyn> the usb ones should work fine.
[20:57] <Soul_Est> Frna: should be fine then
[20:57] <Frna> Great
[20:57] <azalyn> bluetooth is also supported in linux, it's just a little tricky to pair depending on the distro.
[20:57] <Frna> http://www.amazon.com/FAVI-Entertainment-Wireless-Keyboard-TouchPad/dp/B003UE52ME
[20:57] <Soul_Est> iMatttt: needs more power i believe
[20:57] <Frna> In case you wanted a small keyboard.
[20:58] <haltdef> that is adorable
[20:58] <Soul_Est> iMatttt: the Wii handles it just fine under Wii64(Mupen64 port) though
[20:59] <Soul_Est> Frna: ah i remember that one. excellent choice!
[20:59] <Frna> Butchear
[20:59] <Frna> Only thing is screen how.
[20:59] <Soul_Est> Frna: go on
[20:59] <iMatttt> Goldeneye didnt work for me properly
[20:59] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:59] <Frna> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/3-5-tft-lcd-monitor-visual-reversing-vehicles-reverse-camera-ntsc-pal-dc8-15v-49796
[20:59] <Frna> That should work with the RCA, I hope.
[20:59] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] <Soul_Est> iMatttt: on what?
[21:00] <azalyn> i'm not sure if emulation would work well on the r-pi.
[21:00] <iMatttt> Wii64
[21:00] * MuNk (~MuNk@2001:470:1f09:1ec1:210:75ff:fe1a:bdb0) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] <Frna> Then I just gotta mount the keyboard, pi, and screen in a case somehow. And find a good enough battery.
[21:00] <azalyn> while both the wii and the r-pi share similar clock speeds.. i would guess the wii has far far higher instructions per clock.....
[21:00] <MystX> Frna: =D
[21:00] <Soul_Est> iMatttt: ah well the R-pi has way less horsepower so I doubt it would work
[21:00] <Soul_Est> +1 Frna
[21:01] <Frna> Trouble with batteries is powering everything.
[21:01] <MuNk> wonder... if you could wait for Wii-U controllers and replace the inside of the controller with a R-Pi?
[21:01] <Frna> I need at least 1.5A out, and ideally 5V.
[21:01] <azalyn> MuNk: that's actually kind of brilliant.
[21:02] <Frna> That should power the rpi and keyboard straight away, and can be stepped up to 12V for the screen
[21:02] <iMatttt> Probably quite expensive
[21:02] <iMatttt> I doubt the Wii U touch controllers will be cheap
[21:02] <Soul_Est> MuNk: never thought of that O.o Pi-ception?
[21:02] <MystX> Hmm..
[21:02] <MuNk> meh might not be cheap.. but useful
[21:03] <azalyn> would be so much easier if 3d printers were cheaper.
[21:03] <MystX> I wonder what soft or power they'll have in them to start with
[21:03] <azalyn> i hope the reprap project gets somewhere..
[21:03] <MystX> sort of*
[21:04] <Frna> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-iEP387-II-Dual-Port-Universal-Blackberry/dp/B000UH46YY/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1327953750&sr=1-8
[21:04] <Soul_Est> I'm going to turn the first I get into a mini-server (print, scan, email(maybe), irc client)
[21:04] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:04] <Frna> I'd much rather print a case
[21:04] <Frna> Than have to somehow build one
[21:05] <Soul_Est> Frna: looks good to me.
[21:05] <Soul_Est> Frna: the battery i mean
[21:05] <Frna> Indeed
[21:06] <Soul_Est> Frna: and as large as my external harddrive. wouldn't mind getting one if iwasn't saving up for college
[21:07] <Frna> Is that large or not?
[21:07] <Frna> I heard it's about the size of an iphone
[21:08] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:08] <Soul_Est> Frna: i have a WD My Passport SE 1Tb which is a pain to work with under Linux.
[21:08] <Frna> hm
[21:08] <Frna> okay
[21:08] <Frna> I'm really screwed casewise though
[21:08] <Frna> No clue how to make one
[21:09] <azalyn> cardboard.
[21:09] <Soul_Est> Frna: LEGO? K'NEX?
[21:09] <Frna> Tacky
[21:09] <MartijnVdS> in a bottle!
[21:09] <Frna> Maybe design one in a 3D program and send off to shapeways
[21:09] <MartijnVdS> like ships
[21:09] <Soul_Est> MartijnVdS: +1 for lulz
[21:10] <azalyn> people will be selling them soon.. i imagine.
[21:10] <azalyn> other people have already designed some
[21:10] * SpeedEvil sighs at kids today.
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> It's a hacksaw, a bit of wood, a chisel, and a few minutes.
[21:11] <Soul_Est> SpeedEvil: that too.
[21:11] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[21:11] <Ben64> some nice stain, and some urethane
[21:11] <Soul_Est> or a CNC'd metal block
[21:12] <Frna> I'd rather a plastic case than a wood one.
[21:12] <Frna> And it's gotta be quite specific
[21:12] <Ben64> plastic is quite a bit harder to make
[21:12] <Frna> Lighter and easier to work with than wood though
[21:12] <Frna> Plastic boxes are a dime a dozon
[21:12] * SpeedEvil looks at his 8'4'*2mm sheet.
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> of polycarbonate
[21:13] <Frna> And you can dremel holes in them, hinge them up, and you have a hinge case!
[21:13] <Ben64> yeah... can't put hinges in wood...
[21:13] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:14] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[21:15] <azalyn> ew. wood.
[21:15] <Ben64> whats wrong with wood
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDPrFJazD3Q - wood wood tool porn.
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> Guy who makes awesome machine tools from wood.
[21:17] <Frna> Where am I gonna get wood
[21:17] <Ben64> home depot
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> With source.
[21:18] <Frna> How am I gonna glue wood into a box
[21:18] <Frna> And then make it look CLASSY
[21:18] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:18] <IT_Sean> why don't you buy a wooden box?
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Clean off the glue before it sets, varnish, and add nice brass details.
[21:19] <Ben64> glue, sand, stain
[21:19] <IT_Sean> any craft shop should have one
[21:19] <Frna> Hrm
[21:19] <Frna> Could do
[21:20] <IT_Sean> I had toyed with hte idea of using an old wooden cigar box, and giving it a nice finish, but, all the ones in my house are crap.
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> Sand it clean
[21:20] <Ben64> i'd imagine something similar to this
[21:20] <Ben64> http://images.publicradio.org/content/2007/02/06/20070206_wood_computer_18.jpg
[21:21] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] <IT_Sean> SpeedEvil: all the ones in my house are *really* crap. I could sand stright on through to the other side without improving it any.
[21:21] <azalyn> gross.
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:21] * SpeedEvil looks at the several tons of wood.
[21:21] * SpeedEvil has too much stuff.
[21:22] <IT_Sean> When i am ready to do a case, i will porbably go to the craft shop in town, get a nice, unfinished, wooden box, and sand & finish it myself.
[21:22] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:23] <IT_Sean> Need something small, but big enough for the Pi, a powered USB hub, all the wiring, and a couple of flash drives for storage. Perhaps a small HD instead.
[21:23] <Ben64> or like this... http://imgur.com/wjhsu
[21:23] * IT_Sean wonders how hard it owuld be to get xbmc to output status info to a serial character LCD
[21:25] <Frna> I don't suppose there's a sketchup model of the rPi board anywhere?
[21:27] <MartijnVdS> there is one floating around
[21:27] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:28] * jmontleo (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:30] * jewel (~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[21:35] * IT_Sean is tired of wrestling w/ this server, and would like very much to go home.
[21:39] * krake (~krake@p57903DCE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:42] * embruce (5aaf798a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[21:43] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[21:44] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@gateway/indt/session) Quit ()
[21:47] <Soul_Est> IT_Sean: psst, shutdown -r now does wonders. :P
[21:48] * Frna (0266ada4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[21:48] * embruce (5aaf798a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:49] <MystX> IT_Sean: Im not sure about with PC
[21:49] <MystX> But i know the xbox1 version was able to do that
[21:51] <MystX> IT_Sean: On linux: install LCDproc->turn support on in XBMC->no more steps
[21:52] * jmontleo (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Done Sir Done!)
[21:54] * vgrade (~martinbro@cpc2-nrte22-2-0-cust128.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:55] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[22:03] <IT_Sean> MystX: awesome. thx for the tip
[22:03] <IT_Sean> (sorry, was afk)
[22:05] * krake (~krake@p57903DCE.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[22:07] * krake (~krake@p5790387F.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:08] * SphericalCow (cow@2a01:7e00::13:dbcd) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[22:08] * SphericalCow (cow@2a01:7e00::13:dbcd) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:09] * Kostic (~Kostic]@net245-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[22:13] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has left #raspberrypi
[22:16] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-088-075-113-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] <ghans> /msg nickserv Hi
[22:17] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-088-075-113-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:17] <IT_Sean> ...
[22:19] <Thorn_> /msg nickserv hey hun
[22:19] <Thorn_> /ctcp nickserv finger
[22:20] <IT_Sean> woah... heynow
[22:20] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-088-075-113-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-088-075-113-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:21] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-088-075-113-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:22] <IT_Sean> ...
[22:22] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-088-075-113-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:24] <MystX> /msg nickserv id mystxisgreat
[22:25] <MystX> SHIT
[22:26] <MystX> Time to change my password to everything
[22:27] <Aquilus_> Funny guy
[22:27] <zer0her0> haha
[22:28] <IT_Sean> heh
[22:28] <zer0her0> funny story, when i first started helping to admin a channel on freenode and get used to services(instead of per channel bots) i joined #freenode to ask for help, promptly seting my ident to channel
[22:28] <IT_Sean> heh
[22:29] <zer0her0> s/seting/sending/
[22:29] <MystX> Lol
[22:30] <zer0her0> as one person so eloquently put it "and you help run a channel?!"
[22:30] <MystX> ive hit . instead of / a few times
[22:30] <tntexplosivesltd> I always open a new query window XD
[22:30] <tntexplosivesltd> just in case
[22:31] <IT_Sean> aye, me too.
[22:31] <zer0her0> yep well the thing was i was asking if /XYZ or /ABC command was the right way to do something
[22:31] <IT_Sean> i just have my client do it automatically, for me.
[22:31] <zer0her0> yep, well i've learned all about services since then ;)
[22:31] <MystX> Yeah its auto now
[22:32] <acfrazier> so are we shipping yet
[22:32] <MystX> Oh man, those were the old days of MSL
[22:32] <acfrazier> I got tired of f5ing the page everyday
[22:32] <acfrazier> lol
[22:32] <MystX> acfrazier: no
[22:32] <acfrazier> sigh
[22:33] <MystX> If you dont want to check the blog, join the mailing list
[22:33] <acfrazier> I am on the mailing list, but I have yet to receive any mails
[22:33] <zer0her0> MystX, hehe totally forgot about MSL
[22:33] <MystX> acfrazier: Isn't that a hint?
[22:34] * jluisn (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:34] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@13-162-105.client.wireless.msu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:34] <MystX> OH MAN. at the bottom of an auction for a 360: "Comes with true high end HDMI cable (yes,it does make a difference in picture & sound)"
[22:34] <MystX> ???_???
[22:34] * NIN101 (~NIN@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[22:35] <MystX> I like how people who have no idea what they're talking about can tell other people that they're wrong
[22:36] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-170-49-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:36] <zer0her0> it's MORE digital!!!!
[22:36] <ShiftPlusOne> YAY! Digital!
[22:36] <MystX> Exactly
[22:36] <MystX> That sort of thing makes me hate people
[22:37] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[22:37] <MystX> >_>
[22:37] <sightlight> when!!
[22:37] <ShiftPlusOne> sightlight, are you on the mailing list?
[22:37] <MystX> Now?
[22:38] <MystX> Fuck grammar, we're in a hurry
[22:38] <ShiftPlusOne> language! >=/
[22:39] <MystX> Sorry, but come on.
[22:39] <tntexplosivesltd> hahaha
[22:39] <MystX> There's not even a question mark
[22:39] <ShiftPlusOne> (I don't care, but PG13 and all that)
[22:40] <MystX> Yeah >_> I swear too much
[22:40] <sightlight> no
[22:40] <acfrazier> >digital signal
[22:40] <sightlight> subing now
[22:40] <ShiftPlusOne> sightlight, then sign up to the mailing list
[22:40] <tntexplosivesltd> he thinks it makes him look cool
[22:40] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[22:40] <acfrazier> >cable quality mattering
[22:40] <ShiftPlusOne> sightlight, also, follow them on twitter.
[22:41] <MystX> 0/10 tnt
[22:41] <tntexplosivesltd> not trolling, making a small joke
[22:41] <tntexplosivesltd> but whatever
[22:41] <MystX> acfrazier: Dont get me started. I was just thinking that i might actually make an hdmi cable out of coathangers
[22:41] <MystX> For kicks
[22:41] <ShiftPlusOne> why are hdmi cables so expensive anyway?
[22:42] <acfrazier> I'm curious to know the result of this experiment
[22:42] <zer0her0> MystX, you'll poke your eye out!
[22:42] <acfrazier> ShiftPlusOne, because copper
[22:42] <MystX> The solution: use steel
[22:42] <MystX> lol
[22:42] <tntexplosivesltd> and because people think they're high-quality
[22:42] <tntexplosivesltd> and that they need to be
[22:42] <acfrazier> tntexplosivesltd, truth
[22:42] <acfrazier> I could make an HDMI cable out of aluminum and it'd probably work
[22:42] <tntexplosivesltd> it's all consumer-driven
[22:43] <tntexplosivesltd> people expect them to be expensive
[22:43] <acfrazier> people are willing to pay that price, so it remains the same
[22:43] <acfrazier> this is why I import all of my cables from china or order samples from tyco
[22:43] <tntexplosivesltd> acfrazier: aluminium is a good conductor
[22:43] <ShiftPlusOne> "Some HDMI cables are fiberoptic" O_o ?
[22:43] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[22:43] <tntexplosivesltd> how pointless
[22:44] <acfrazier> it's a digital signal, there's no need
[22:44] <acfrazier> the only fiber optic cable I own is for my audio because my speakers have a built in DAC
[22:44] <hotwings> you shouldnt completely disregard quality.. material quality does come into play when youre dealing with large distance.. however, the average joe doesnt typically run 150+ft of hdmi cable
[22:44] <tntexplosivesltd> heh audiophile
[22:44] <mrdragons> Yeah, I always facepalm when people talk about how much they sent on hdmi cables...
[22:44] <mrdragons> spent*
[22:44] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah
[22:44] <mrdragons> And I'm a proud audiophile. :P
[22:45] <hotwings> dont mrdragons... just stop now
[22:45] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[22:45] * Winslow (Winslow@c-98-223-103-184.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:45] <tntexplosivesltd> you people annoy me
[22:45] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, do you have a cryogenically frozen, gold plated, power cable for your computer so that windows runs better?
[22:45] <mrdragons> Why?
[22:45] <tntexplosivesltd> to a point you can't hear the difference
[22:45] <acfrazier> tntexplosivesltd, no, I don't have $5000 worth of audio equipment
[22:45] <tntexplosivesltd> it's just about being smug
[22:45] <tntexplosivesltd> ah lol
[22:45] <mrdragons> Um, no
[22:45] <ShiftPlusOne> tntexplosivesltd, if you pay 3 times as much for something, you'll hear the difference.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> HDMI does not have error correction.
[22:46] <acfrazier> my studio monitors cost probably $130
[22:46] <acfrazier> lol
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> You either get a perfect signal, or major sparklies.
[22:46] <acfrazier> and it sounds better than what I was using
[22:46] <tntexplosivesltd> ShiftPlusOne: lol true
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> And that's neglecting HDCP.
[22:46] <mrdragons> I spend money on higher quality sound equipment partly because I'm a producer, and partly because it actually sounds better
[22:47] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, yup... to a point.
[22:47] <MystX> Na that's perfectly true for amps and speakers
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> Mics too.
[22:47] <hotwings> mrdragons - sorry.. had to take a call real quick.. i also get red flags when someone talks about being an audiophile because 1) they typically have no clue wtf theyre talking about and 2) same as 1.
[22:47] <MystX> mmhm
[22:47] <tntexplosivesltd> mrdragons: I was more meaning people who spend thousands and thousands on headphones and shit
[22:47] <MystX> And 3) See 1 and 2
[22:47] <ShiftPlusOne> I am talking about people who think that a power cable makes difference and that the skin effect is somehow relevant.
[22:48] <mrdragons> That's not audiophile, that's a stereotype
[22:48] <ShiftPlusOne> there are people who hook up capacitors to their cigarrete lighters in their cars, so that the car audio sounds better..... because it cleans the 'dirty battery signal'
[22:48] <MystX> In other news: monster audio cable vs. coathanger -> no difference
[22:48] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[22:48] <mrdragons> I would spend thousands if I had the money though. :P
[22:48] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[22:49] <MystX> ShiftPlusOne: LOL
[22:49] <hotwings> maybe im especially short on patience because ive spent over half my life involved with pro audio for a living
[22:49] <mrdragons> Oh nice, what do you do?
[22:51] <tntexplosivesltd> ShiftPlusOne: also the people who get all smug and arrogant about it
[22:51] <tntexplosivesltd> "you mindless plebs don't know the meaning of good quality"
[22:51] <tntexplosivesltd> etc
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Can I haz golden earz.
[22:52] <hotwings> mrdragons - see pm
[22:52] <mrdragons> Is it out yet?
[22:52] <MystX> Everyone knows that the connectors have to be made out of liquified diamonds to be any good
[22:53] <MystX> Held in place by a large plasma field
[22:53] <hotwings> sounds pretty high-tech. must be the best
[22:53] <Soul_Est> I'll stick to objective audio
[22:53] <MystX> Na everyone knows that you can only transmit perfect digital signals by using quantum entanglement
[22:53] <tntexplosivesltd> removes background radiation too
[22:54] <SphericalCow> any good HDMI cable needs arrows to tell the electrons which way to go
[22:54] <Soul_Est> anyone check out the objective2 amp?
[22:54] <MystX> XD
[22:54] <MystX> Nope
[22:55] <ShiftPlusOne> Enjoy http://adhoc-tech-sci.com/pd-vs-aa.html
[22:55] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3NyL996xeo
[22:56] <MystX> ???_???
[22:56] <MystX> Oh, well at east the display is non-multiplexing.
[22:56] <MystX> Otherwise you'd have an oscillator in there. More noise
[22:57] <hotwings> the thing people always seem to overlook with digital audio is snr and signal quality. digital data is one thing but signalling is something entirely different
[22:57] <mrdragons> ShiftPlusOne: Wtf. XD
[22:57] <MystX> "it shows the voltage of the car"
[22:57] <MystX> im done
[22:57] <MystX> meeting
[22:59] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[23:00] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[23:01] <sightlight> subbed into the ttwiter
[23:01] <sightlight> they said they wouldnt be shipping that much.
[23:01] <sightlight> is that less than 10,000 units they mentioned?
[23:02] <ShiftPlusOne> great, now you don't have to ask when it's coming out because you'll know as much as we know.
[23:02] <Thorn_> is it out yet?
[23:02] <sightlight> no.
[23:02] <haltdef> hm, I appear to suck
[23:02] <haltdef> having a hell of a time cracking my own WEP AP :(
[23:02] <ShiftPlusOne> haltdef, why?
[23:03] <haltdef> needs a ton of IVs
[23:03] <haltdef> n900 has a pretty gui which helps
[23:03] <mrdragons> How many you at so far?
[23:03] <sightlight> the linux operating system will kinda benefit from the profit of the raspberrypi since it only runs linux
[23:03] <mrdragons> It'll almost definately run *BSDs too
[23:04] * LiENUX (~yes@ip68-11-254-175.br.br.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:04] <haltdef> lost interest, hunting down arm binaries for reaver now :P
[23:04] <haltdef> also wash
[23:04] <ShiftPlusOne> sightlight, linux is free... they don't get any money from raspberry pi.
[23:04] <haltdef> someone's a firefly fan
[23:04] * FireFly isn't
[23:04] <sightlight> i mean on the software on linux
[23:04] * wtpayne (~textual@rrcs-184-75-39-118.nyc.biz.rr.com) Quit ()
[23:04] <sightlight> yes Linux wont get anymoney
[23:05] <haltdef> waste of a nick :P
[23:05] <mrdragons> sightlight: Hopefully at least, it'd be good if people got more familiar with it
[23:05] <sightlight> but the people developing for the pi will benefit Linux in general
[23:05] <FireFly> Meh, I picked the nick before I had heard of the show :P
[23:06] <ShiftPlusOne> sightlight, the other way around.... linux benefits the raspberry pi.
[23:06] <mrdragons> It's mutual! ^_^
[23:07] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:8436:e84c:94c4:fa09) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:07] <sightlight> what about the developers making the prograams, app, games to run with less, and stuff like that
[23:07] <sightlight> we dont even know is codeweaver will optimized for the raspberrypi
[23:07] <sightlight> dont tell me they wont
[23:07] <sightlight> we dont know
[23:07] <sightlight> moeny money money..
[23:07] <ShiftPlusOne> ......codeweaver!? that's wine.
[23:08] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[23:08] <ShiftPlusOne> forget it
[23:08] <sightlight> not exacly wine
[23:08] <ShiftPlusOne> yes... wine with a few patches
[23:08] <sightlight> but you could say it in general
[23:08] <tntexplosivesltd> why do you want to run wine?
[23:08] <tntexplosivesltd> it's not a games machine
[23:08] <sightlight> i know
[23:08] <tntexplosivesltd> and never will be
[23:08] <sightlight> whatever
[23:09] <sightlight> DOSBOX
[23:09] <sightlight> can work too
[23:09] <mrdragons> Eh, let him try it for himself.
[23:09] <sightlight> they can..
[23:09] <mrdragons> Mistakes can be the best way to learn.
[23:09] <sightlight> you never know
[23:09] <sightlight> its a posibility
[23:09] <piofcube> There will be loads of games on the R-Pi but nothing that needs high CPU/GPU power.
[23:09] <tntexplosivesltd> oh my god... dosbox ._.
[23:09] <haltdef> is sightlight being unrealistic again
[23:09] <tntexplosivesltd> yes
[23:09] <Thorn_> dosbox runs on arm?
[23:09] <sightlight> no
[23:10] <Thorn_> i bet that's crazy slow if it does
[23:10] <mrdragons> I think so
[23:10] <haltdef> it does
[23:10] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, yes
[23:10] <sightlight> raspberrypi is PROFITABLE
[23:10] <mrdragons> No u
[23:10] <tntexplosivesltd> that makes no sense
[23:10] <sightlight> linux will benefit from it
[23:10] <sightlight> yes it does
[23:10] <piofcube> Is there a FreeDOS distro for ARM? Hmm I wonder ;-)
[23:10] <sightlight> it make a lot
[23:10] <haltdef> think I just caused a kernel panic on my phone
[23:10] * sightlight (b84f3609@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:10] <mrdragons> piofcube: If not, wanna port one? It can't be that hard, it's just dos after all. :P
[23:10] <ShiftPlusOne> sightlight, again, linux is free... it doesn't benefit from other making a profit off of it.
[23:11] <ShiftPlusOne> dear god
[23:11] <Thorn_> 'linux is free'
[23:11] <Thorn_> my ass
[23:11] <haltdef> linux is free if your time is worthless
[23:11] * haltdef legs it
[23:11] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, ah, so how much did raspberry pi pay to license it?
[23:11] <mrdragons> All of it
[23:11] <Thorn_> linux gets as much in underhand donations as microsoft gets in revenue
[23:11] <ShiftPlusOne> haltdef, by that logic breathing is free if your time is worthless
[23:12] <mrdragons> Thorn_: I don't see how that's a bad thing
[23:12] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, don't know if that's a fact, but if we pretend that it is, it doesn't mean you pay to use it.
[23:12] <Thorn_> but he's still right
[23:12] <mrdragons> Wait, who?
[23:12] <Thorn_> the pi and linux gives mutual benefit to both parties
[23:12] <Thorn_> as for a direct profitable benefit, well that could never be linked directly
[23:13] <mrdragons> Oh I see what you mean
[23:13] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, what does the pi contribute to linux? Getting it into schools, maybe?
[23:13] <mrdragons> I like it that way
[23:13] <Thorn_> ShiftPlusOne: bringing further attention to linux
[23:13] <tntexplosivesltd> it;s not a bad thing to say the least
[23:13] <mrdragons> Increasing userbase, thus potential developers
[23:13] <Thorn_> never said it was a bad thing
[23:13] <Thorn_> it's a great thing really
[23:13] <Soul_Est> and hopefully bsd too
[23:14] <Thorn_> i just find it odd that people now jump at any and every opportunity to shoot sightlight down for the smallest offhand comment
[23:14] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, I am not sure that's what sightlight was talking about... he was talking about raspberry pi being profitable and all that
[23:14] <mrdragons> Yeah, that irks me a bit too
[23:14] <tntexplosivesltd> we weren't saying anything about that
[23:14] <tntexplosivesltd> oh, some were
[23:14] <mrdragons> They said the binary blob is pretty far out from the kernel, and don't expect it to be a problem to port any BSDs to the pi
[23:14] <tntexplosivesltd> never mind
[23:15] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, fair enough.
[23:16] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, really? did they release some specifications on the interface?
[23:17] <mrdragons> Not that I'm aware of, I'm just parroting what I've been told. :P
[23:17] <ShiftPlusOne> hm
[23:22] * victhor (~victhor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:25] <MystX> If i can get arch running, im happy
[23:25] <merlin1991> one thing the pi brings to linux is the broadcom drivers
[23:25] <MystX> It'll be fun to see how fast you can get it booting
[23:26] <MystX> I guess SD card access will be the limit there
[23:26] <ShiftPlusOne> merlin1991, those are broadcom... they just happen to be partially written by some people who also work on the raspberry pi.
[23:26] <MystX> Oh, i was going to ask: Can you make it boot from usb?
[23:26] <merlin1991> the main thing is that the pi was the reason to gpl them
[23:26] <ShiftPlusOne> and can you actually buy those chips?
[23:26] <ahven> via grub it should be possible
[23:26] <ShiftPlusOne> merlin1991, good point =)
[23:27] <MystX> ahven: yay!
[23:27] <ShiftPlusOne> isn't grub x86 only?
[23:27] <ahven> (as I have read atleast)
[23:27] <ShiftPlusOne> uboot should be able to do it
[23:27] <ShiftPlusOne> either way, booting from usb should be trivial, but if you don't mind me asking, why?
[23:28] <mrdragons> Faster than SD I suspect
[23:28] <MystX> I can imaging getting a USB stick with a faster random access time than SD
[23:28] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c5709.dynamic.uiowa.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:28] <ahven> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_boot_loaders is maybe of help
[23:28] <MystX> imagine*
[23:29] <ShiftPlusOne> you'll still need the SD obviously, even if it's just to load the binary and bootloader. If you're going that far, might as well use the normal kernel and set the usb partition as rootfs
[23:30] <MystX> Er yeah
[23:30] <ShiftPlusOne> but uboot will obviously add some options
[23:30] <mrdragons> True, that's what I plan to do
[23:30] <MystX> so wait, kernel on SD or usb?
[23:30] <mrdragons> Kernel on SD, fs on USB
[23:30] <ShiftPlusOne> depends on what you mean
[23:30] <Soul_Est> MystX: Arch should be ported i believe
[23:30] <ReggieUK> actually you could use nand
[23:31] <ReggieUK> via eMMC chip
[23:31] <ReggieUK> but it still ties up teh sd socket
[23:31] <MystX> Soul_Est: ArchLinuxARM already exists
[23:31] <ShiftPlusOne> Soul_Est, MystX yes, arch already runs on the pi.
[23:31] <Soul_Est> MystX: I talked to the person working on it in the forum last year
[23:31] <ShiftPlusOne> you can download a rootfs for arch already
[23:31] <MystX> yaaaaay
[23:31] <MystX> Where?
[23:31] <Soul_Est> ShiftPlusOne: thanks
[23:31] <ShiftPlusOne> I saw it on the arch forum, but that was a long time ago, I am sure he has updated it since then
[23:32] <MystX> yeah i might wait
[23:32] <mrdragons> Yeah, it was a couple scripts to make the rootfs
[23:32] <ShiftPlusOne> it's not an 'official release' but it's arch which works on raspberry pi.
[23:32] <MystX> close enough for me =P
[23:32] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, nuh I am talking about an actual rootfs, not scripts.
[23:32] <mrdragons> Oh cool
[23:33] <mrdragons> So archlinuxarm uses pacman as well, right?
[23:33] <mrdragons> And ABS for that matter
[23:33] <Soul_Est> mrdragons: it should
[23:33] <ShiftPlusOne> don't think I've tried installing anything, but I would be surprised if it didn't
[23:33] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@13-162-105.client.wireless.msu.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:33] <Soul_Est> mrdragons: wouldn't be arch without them
[23:34] <mrdragons> Exactly, that's why I was wondering. :P
[23:34] <MystX> Gonna be so happy when i get arch booting on a R-Pi.
[23:34] <mrdragons> Same
[23:34] <MystX> Apache and MySQL might kill it though
[23:34] <Soul_Est> MystX: +!
[23:34] <mrdragons> It'll be a great distro on the pi imo
[23:35] <Soul_Est> MystX: +1
[23:35] <MystX> Oh thats right i need mysql, shit
[23:35] <Soul_Est> MystX: go sqlite
[23:35] <mrdragons> sqllite?
[23:35] <MystX> eeh. Might just use the MySQL on my main server
[23:35] <mrdragons> ^Er, yeah
[23:35] <ShiftPlusOne> MySQL hasn't been ported to ARM? =/
[23:36] <MystX> Yeah ill just network it
[23:38] <Soul_Est> ShiftPlusOne: i believe it'll be a little heavy for the pi
[23:38] <ShiftPlusOne> ah
[23:39] <Thorn_> turn off innodb
[23:39] <Thorn_> mysql memory footprint seems to drop from 250mb to 25mb
[23:39] <Soul_Est> Thorn_: +1
[23:39] <Soul_Est> forgot about innodb
[23:39] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, sqllite and lighttpd might be the way to go as well. Not exactly a production server, but it will do.
[23:40] <Soul_Est> what about maridb then since oracle got mysql?
[23:40] <haltdef> hm, is it bad when a usb psu .. wails under load?
[23:40] <MystX> Probably
[23:41] <MystX> lol
[23:41] <haltdef> phome charged ok but the noise wasn't exactly subtle :P
[23:41] <haltdef> phone
[23:41] <Soul_Est> haltdef: definitely bad
[23:41] <Dagger2> well, it will drive you crazy at least
[23:41] <MystX> Dunno, my laptop charger sometimes whines
[23:42] <Dagger2> my mouse has started making noises too, whenever it sends data over the radio link :(
[23:42] <MystX> Oh wait, that was my old one. Which eventually blew up my laptop when i plugged it in
[23:42] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:50] <mrdragons> *sigh* Stupid time. I wish I didn't have to sleep or go to school so I could just spend all day programming. ._.
[23:50] <FireFly> I second that
[23:50] <MystX> Thirded
[23:50] <MystX> But its almost lunch time =D
[23:50] <FireFly> What, no
[23:50] <FireFly> It's almost midnight, so I should probably go to bed now
[23:50] <MystX> Same thing
[23:50] <MystX> Midnight snack
[23:51] <FireFly> ...I guess
[23:51] <mrdragons> Heh
[23:51] <MystX> feast*
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[23:53] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:55] * imnichol (~ian@somsen-128-149.winona.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)

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