#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-02-05

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <LiENUS> eben upton...
[0:00] * jluisn (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:00] <tntexplosivesltd> wow...
[0:00] <smw> lol
[0:00] <IT_Sean> stop messing w/ him guys.
[0:00] <LiENUS> tntexplosivesltd, ?
[0:01] <smw> IT_Sean, I know no one took preorders for the RP ;-)
[0:01] <smw> at least no one legit
[0:01] <smw> I thought this was another product or something ;-)
[0:01] <tntexplosivesltd> swyou don't know who eben upton os?
[0:01] <tntexplosivesltd> * is
[0:01] <IT_Sean> if you don't know who eben is, just get out.
[0:01] <IT_Sean> :p
[0:02] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has left #raspberrypi
[0:02] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:02] <smw> :-P
[0:02] * nplus (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/simont) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:02] <Hopsy> smw: you are also here :O
[0:02] <smw> Hopsy, I am everywhere
[0:03] <Hopsy> I mentioned that
[0:03] <smw> IT_Sean, I guess you have a policy of not letting others learn about the RP? :-P
[0:03] <smw> IT_Sean, apparently, not knowing things is a good reason to leave :-P
[0:06] <smw> Hopsy, SB + RB = awesome?
[0:06] <smw> :-)
[0:06] <tntexplosivesltd> smw: but come on\
[0:06] <tntexplosivesltd> 8 !
[0:06] <tntexplosivesltd> * * !
[0:07] <smw> tntexplosivesltd, what?
[0:07] <tntexplosivesltd> you must have been one of the people getting into the r-pi quite late
[0:07] <smw> tntexplosivesltd, I am
[0:07] <smw> tntexplosivesltd, I came on when I found out they were releasing it soon...
[0:07] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] <tntexplosivesltd> eben upton and liz are pretty much messiahs
[0:08] * diplo (~diplo@5ad6e9e7.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:08] <smw> tntexplosivesltd, as I said, I waited until it was soon to come out ;-)
[0:17] <mjr> oh yeah is it standard sized hdmi then or some mini?
[0:19] <mjr> okay, full apparently
[0:21] * stevepdp (~stevepdp@fsf/member/stevepdp) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:21] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb7:ca81:5c9f:c7af:66eb:28ad) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:22] * yumaokao (~yumaokao@ Quit (Quit: leaving)
[0:24] * yumaokao (~yumaokao@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] <IT_Sean> standard size, mjr
[0:26] <mjr> yeah thanks
[0:29] * prbz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:31] * prbz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:32] <IT_Sean> no problem
[0:32] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: poof)
[0:41] * QBeep (~QB@d3-4-1-0.r00.dllstx04.us.ce.gin.ntt.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * QBeep (~QB@d3-4-1-0.r00.dllstx04.us.ce.gin.ntt.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[0:41] * datagutt_ (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:43] * jmissao_ (~jmissao@C1202.karlshof.wh.tu-darmstadt.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:43] * whyzfreenode (~e@h145n7-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:45] * Jettis_ (~h0h0@a88-112-77-38.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * yang (yang@jazz.linuxshell.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * jmissao (~jmissao@unaffiliated/sundial) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * nsc (~nsc@tardis.chantrell.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * steffen- (~steffen@rsdio.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * datagutt_ is now known as datagutt
[0:45] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * Jettis (~h0h0@a88-112-77-38.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * whyz (~e@h145n7-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * friggle (~friggle@li60-24.members.linode.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * Guest40216 (yang@jazz.linuxshell.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * Iota (~contact@zooserv.eu) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * QuantumBeep (~QB@d3-4-1-0.r00.dllstx04.us.ce.gin.ntt.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * Skorpy (~sevanteri@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:45] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-228-76.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-228-76.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Changing host)
[0:45] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * yang is now known as Guest79965
[0:46] * OneFix_Work (~onefix@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[0:58] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-088-075-157-068.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-088-075-157-068.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:01] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:02] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[1:02] <nplus> I don't suppose anyone has a better idea of a release date
[1:02] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@CPE0017f2324fce-CM0012250096a8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] <victhor> I have: NEVER! :D
[1:04] * feep (~feep@p5B2B45CD.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[1:04] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] * feep (~feep@p5B2B4307.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:06] * nsc` (~nsc@tardis.chantrell.net) Quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
[1:07] * nsc (~nsc@tardis.chantrell.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] <hamitron> chocolate dipped bacon? :|
[1:07] * pistacik_ (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[1:09] * Datum_Errata (~ivarr@mail.cstcm.edu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:09] * Datum_Errata (~ivarr@mail.cstcm.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:10] <Soul_Est> bacon-fat dipped chocolate? :|
[1:20] * NIN101 (~NIN@ Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[1:20] * LoganShaw (~LoganShaw@pool-96-250-209-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:20] <LoganShaw> hey everybody!
[1:20] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[1:30] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev)
[1:34] <LoganShaw> irc looks so retro! I feel like I am in the 1990s all over again
[1:35] * pitz (~pitz@71-17-53-178.msjw.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:43] * LoganShaw (~LoganShaw@pool-96-250-209-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) Quit ()
[1:43] * LoganShaw (~LoganShaw@pool-96-250-209-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:48] <PiOfCube> anyone know off the top of their heads what the IRSSI command is to ignore joins and parts?
[1:49] <LoganShaw> no clue but I would like to know that as well, so much clutter!
[1:52] <PiOfCube> Ahh... /ignore -channels #raspberrypi * JOINS PARTS QUITS
[1:52] <PiOfCube> I wasn't adding the "-channels" bit
[1:55] <LoganShaw> should I use a proxy to connect to irc servers?
[1:56] <PiOfCube> You can get a cloak (?) for your IP addy if you want. Or you could just SSH to a server then run IRSSI via that... If you don't want to set-up a full proxy or don't trust them.
[2:01] <LoganShaw> thanks, might have to do that since I see my ip plastered for all to see every time i join a channel
[2:03] <hamitron> you can use SSH to create a local socks proxy
[2:03] <hamitron> if you have a shell or server
[2:04] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] * barr5790 (~alan@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:06] <LoganShaw> anybody know if a 5.1v (850mA) cellphone charger can be used on the raPI?
[2:09] <SpeedEvil> In short - measure the voltage.
[2:09] <SpeedEvil> It may only be 5.1V@850mA, and 10V@0mA
[2:10] <SpeedEvil> this will cause the pi to explode.
[2:12] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:13] <feep> so I think
[2:13] <feep> we need to start getting away from "are they out yet"
[2:13] <feep> and move towards "why aren't they out yet"
[2:13] <feep> also .. /ignore -channels #raspberrypi * EATS SHOOTS LEAVES
[2:14] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:cd37:f4d1:591b:2dcd) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:16] <LoganShaw> okay, can the raPI cpu be overclocked? If my phone can then I would imagine so too can the raPI
[2:17] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:18] <SpeedEvil> yes
[2:19] <LoganShaw> aircooled OC or would it need a heatsink?
[2:19] <SpeedEvil> No heatsink
[2:19] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:20] * hamitron sighs
[2:20] <hamitron> "lets get beasty performance from the r-pi" o.O
[2:23] <SpeedEvil> In practice. You will improve the pi performance by perhaps 20%
[2:23] <hamitron> easier to upgrade to an atom
[2:23] <hamitron> ;)
[2:24] <SpeedEvil> Taking it from the equivalent of a 12 year old laptop to an 11 year old laptop.
[2:24] <LoganShaw> well, I only asked because I have serious doubts as to whether xbmc can run smoothly on it
[2:26] <LoganShaw> but if it can run smoothly then sure, why bother OCing it
[2:30] * heymaste_ (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:30] * heymaster (~heymaster@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:36] <LoganShaw> raPI has 1x or 2x USB 2.0? the diagram makes it seem like just one
[2:38] <atts> i believe the model A has one USB port and the model B has two USB ports
[2:39] <LoganShaw> so external HDDs that require two USB ports would work right?
[2:41] <atts> i would think so
[2:42] <LoganShaw> well fingers crossed
[2:43] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:45] <hamitron> can't you use an external hdd with just 1, if you use a separate power supply?
[2:46] <LoganShaw> I guess that's also possible
[2:46] <SpeedEvil> Or a wierd cable
[2:47] <SpeedEvil> The HDDs with two ports only use them for power
[2:47] <SpeedEvil> they run from one port if it can supply 1A
[2:49] <LoganShaw> that might be the way I go if there is only one USB port
[2:49] <hamitron> wonder if the pi will be stable with high power usb devices
[2:49] <LoganShaw> im assuming that cat7 cable will work in the raPI?
[2:49] <LoganShaw> it might not so its best to buy spares
[2:50] <hamitron> personally, I'd access everything over the network anyway
[2:50] <hamitron> ;)
[2:52] <SpeedEvil> USB power is quite irrelevant
[2:52] <SpeedEvil> you need to supply 5V at adequate current to supply the pi, and the USB device
[2:52] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:54] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:57] <LoganShaw> exactly 5v or can it be 5.1v?
[2:59] * doug_ndndn (~doug@2001:470:1f09:18c8:219:d2ff:fe3d:7524) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[3:00] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB22BA.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:01] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit ()
[3:04] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:05] * uen (~uen@p5DCB112A.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[3:07] <SpeedEvil> 5.1 is fine.
[3:07] <SpeedEvil> Just because 5.1 is written on a supply, don't assume it's 5.1 though
[3:08] <IT_Sean> but 5.1000001 will causwe it to go crispy duck.
[3:08] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:08] <IT_Sean> :p
[3:09] * IT_Sean pokes LoganShaw with 5.1 volts
[3:12] * doug_ndndn (~doug@2001:470:1f09:18c8:219:d2ff:fe3d:7524) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:18] <LoganShaw> dude seriously! can kill somebody like that
[3:24] <RITRedbeard> You'll overvolt your eye out, kid.
[3:24] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[3:28] <LoganShaw> its all fun and games until the raPI kills somebody with a pacemaker
[3:30] <RITRedbeard> Too bad this channel is limited to talk of Raspberry Pi.
[3:31] <SpeedEvil> Naah. Just add 'with my Pi' to the end of every sentance.
[3:31] <RITRedbeard> Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation...
[3:34] <hamitron> SpeedEvil, know of a good pr0n site to view with my Pi?
[3:34] <hamitron> ;)
[3:34] <hamitron> sorta works
[3:39] * mjr (mjr@nblzone-241-33.nblnetworks.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:40] * mjr (mjr@nblzone-241-33.nblnetworks.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:40] <SpeedEvil> raspberrycreampie.org ?
[3:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.tasteofhome.com/Recipes/Raspberry-Cream-Pie-2 - mmmm
[3:49] <LoganShaw> will the raPI need a swap partition?
[3:51] <SpeedEvil> If you're using it for something that wants more than physical RAM - yes
[3:52] <mrdragon1> Swap will be terrible on this using an SD card. :s
[3:53] * mrdragon1 (~lucas@ Quit (Quit: brb)
[3:54] * mrdragons (~lucas@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:54] <LoganShaw> only other option is a usb 2.0 swap
[3:54] <mrdragons> That'd be a bit better
[3:54] <mrdragons> A really good bit better
[3:54] <mrdragons> For swap anyways
[3:56] <LoganShaw> you guys sure know a lot about this considering it hasn't even been released yet, consider me impressed
[3:57] <hamitron> swap is generally bad anyway... if you think you are gonna need to rely on it often, maybe better getting something of higher spec? ;)
[3:58] * cerberos (~cerberos@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:59] <LoganShaw> well I have no idea what I will need, I just want xbmc to run on it smoothly but judging from the videos on youtube, there will be stutter
[4:03] <SpeedEvil> wifi swap
[4:03] <LoganShaw> mind.blown.
[4:03] <SpeedEvil> LoganShaw: The pi is a boring device. It's not exceptional in any way. The performance is almost exactly the same as any other arm system with a similar clock speed, and peripherals, hence it's quite easy to predict. The only interesting part is the possible community, and the price.
[4:04] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[4:04] <SpeedEvil> And many of us have experience with similar devices, so it's quite easy to predict - at least roughly - performance in various cases.
[4:05] <LoganShaw> boring? when I saw the youtube video of xbmc running on it I was ecstatic
[4:06] * Tachyon` sighs as he waits for a RAID5 array to rebuild
[4:06] <Tachyon`> 13 hours left
[4:06] <LoganShaw> plus if I can figure out how to get raPI to access my NAS, I'll be set
[4:06] <Tachyon`> should be possible
[4:06] <Tachyon`> it supports cifs/nfs for certain
[4:06] <SpeedEvil> It's boring in that it's entirely unexceptional.
[4:06] <SpeedEvil> It's a 500MHz ARM CPU.
[4:07] <SpeedEvil> The only thing that makes it potentially interesting isn't the hardware as such.
[4:07] * Tachyon` has fond memories of an 8MHz ARM2 kicking the collective arses of the 386s of the time
[4:07] <SpeedEvil> 386 wasn't very fast.
[4:08] <Tachyon`> was the fastest intel available when I got my first archimedes
[4:08] <SpeedEvil> I still actually have a running 386 system that I use occasionally.
[4:08] <mrdragons> Same
[4:08] <SpeedEvil> It uses 4 AA batteries.
[4:08] <SpeedEvil> Garmin GPS12
[4:08] <mrdragons> Really? That used 386?
[4:08] <mrdragons> Huh
[4:08] <LoganShaw> I read somewhere that it was running at 700mhz
[4:08] <SpeedEvil> 386ex, but 386 all the same
[4:08] <Tachyon`> I'd have thought it'd be arm
[4:09] <Tachyon`> LoganShaw, they're probably overclockable
[4:09] <SpeedEvil> LoganShaw: 500MHz, it can in principle run at higher speed
[4:09] <Tachyon`> I can run my pandora at 960MHz but it's nominally a 600MHz chip
[4:09] <LoganShaw> but on the site it claims 700mhz, so that is WITH the overclocking?
[4:10] <Tachyon`> possibly, 850 isn't even dangerous, heh
[4:10] <mrdragons> I can't wait to see how far someone overclocks the raspi.
[4:10] <Tachyon`> the low speed is for the low power use really
[4:10] <SpeedEvil> Overclocking may not only be hazerdous due to thermal effects.
[4:10] <Tachyon`> not due to any particular chip limitation
[4:10] * Tachyon` snorts
[4:10] <Tachyon`> it won't even get warm, lol
[4:10] <SpeedEvil> For example - the omap3 has specific wording in the datasheet specifying time/frequencies.
[4:10] <Tachyon`> it's not an intel cihp
[4:11] <SpeedEvil> If you run it at 600MHz, it's good for 10000 hours.
[4:11] <SpeedEvil> If you have it idle most of the time, at a low clock, it's good practically forever.
[4:11] <Tachyon`> the expected time before failure running at like 850 is 15 years, at laest according to the datasheets I was reading
[4:11] <SpeedEvil> This may for example mean that several critical paths are likely to undergo electromigration at high current loads.
[4:11] <Tachyon`> and that's if there's migration issues
[4:12] <SpeedEvil> It was _much_ lower for this part.
[4:12] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:12] <SpeedEvil> - the processor in the n900 phone
[4:12] <LoganShaw> would installing heatsinks help in any way?
[4:12] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:12] <SpeedEvil> No.
[4:12] <Tachyon`> it's the same processor as the pandora isn't it?
[4:12] <mrdragons> Problem would not be thermal.
[4:12] <Tachyon`> ARM Cortex A8
[4:13] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[4:13] <LoganShaw> the problem would be transphasic decoupling?
[4:13] <SpeedEvil> (the n900 and the pandora)
[4:13] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration thatr
[4:13] <Tachyon`> then it will go for years before electromigration is an issue, even overclocked at 960
[4:14] <SpeedEvil> Tachyon`: not according to the specs
[4:14] <hamitron> specs like to play safe
[4:14] <hamitron> :)
[4:14] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[4:14] <Tachyon`> I'm assuming it won't be run at 100% load much of the time
[4:14] <Tachyon`> which it won't
[4:14] <Tachyon`> they never are
[4:15] <hamitron> well, mine won't be overclocked
[4:15] <SpeedEvil> However, unless you have some specific reason to believe that the specs were completely made up - you have to use them as a base if you want a reliable system.
[4:15] <hamitron> I'd consider underclocking, if that can reduce power use
[4:15] <Tachyon`> they clock smart anyway, you're just setting a max speed, no thte actual speed
[4:15] <Tachyon`> if they're not under load they slow down
[4:15] <hamitron> k, no point then
[4:15] <hamitron> :)
[4:15] <SpeedEvil> Tachyon`: unless you lock it at frequency - which can be useful in some cases.
[4:16] <Tachyon`> yeah, like eating power and shortening the life of the device
[4:16] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure how smart the pi's clocking is.
[4:16] <Tachyon`> lol
[4:16] <hamitron> was sure how advanced they were for that sort of thing
[4:16] <hamitron> not sure
[4:16] <hamitron> :/
[4:16] <hamitron> Tachyon`, btw
[4:17] <Tachyon`> I think it's built into the chip
[4:17] <SpeedEvil> The n900 is awesome.
[4:17] <hamitron> how much is it to get one of them devices?
[4:17] <Tachyon`> the Z2?
[4:17] <hamitron> yeh
[4:17] <Tachyon`> haven't we arleady had this conversation?
[4:17] <SpeedEvil> It goes down to ~3mA battery consumption at 'idle'
[4:17] <hamitron> no
[4:17] <hamitron> I thinking if I ordered seperate
[4:17] <hamitron> I'm
[4:17] <Tachyon`> you'll get stiffed on postage
[4:18] <Tachyon`> the postage is like 3 times the cost of the device if you buy 1
[4:18] <hamitron> yeh, but just wondered
[4:18] <Tachyon`> that's precisely why I'm doing it the way I am
[4:18] <hamitron> :)
[4:18] <Tachyon`> but you'd be talking like 40-50 quid for one device rather than 12 if you just bought 1
[4:18] <Tachyon`> be patient, lol
[4:18] <hamitron> stock is not an issue is it?
[4:18] <Tachyon`> I will get it sorted at soon
[4:18] <Tachyon`> er, no, I think he has thousands of them, haha
[4:19] <LoganShaw> this device can stay on 24/7 then?
[4:19] <Tachyon`> and is currently only selling to hacker types
[4:19] <hamitron> I don't mind waiting.... just don't wanna miss getting one
[4:19] <hamitron> :)
[4:19] <Tachyon`> well, nor do I os it will be sorted out, heh
[4:19] <SpeedEvil> LoganShaw: The pi? yes.
[4:19] <hamitron> kk :)
[4:20] <Tachyon`> I'll probably write soemthing to access the static wikipedia on it
[4:20] <Tachyon`> and build it round an LCARS interface
[4:20] <Tachyon`> since it looks like a star trek device
[4:20] <Tachyon`> an LCARS interface that actually does what it was originally intended to do, that'll be novel, lol
[4:21] <LoganShaw> could it be controlled by tricorder...I mean smartphone?
[4:22] <Tachyon`> you'll also need one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Transcend-2GB-MicroSD-Card-Adapter/dp/B000OLVMOS/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1328412056&sr=8-8
[4:22] <Tachyon`> or similar
[4:22] <Tachyon`> as it uses the pretty much defunct miniSD card
[4:23] <Tachyon`> but that rather cheap card is large enough for the larger existing debian image and conveniently comes with the required adapters
[4:26] <hamitron> omg
[4:26] <hamitron> brain has just died in the last 15 mins
[4:26] <hamitron> reckon it is time for sleep
[4:26] <hamitron> :)
[4:28] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:cd37:f4d1:591b:2dcd) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:30] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:32] <LoganShaw> there is a LCARS app on android market that does what LCARS was originally designed to do, so LCARS on raPI wouldn't be so novel
[4:32] <Tachyon`> hrm
[4:35] <Tachyon`> a number of them, all pay apps
[4:36] <Tachyon`> and was talking about on Z2, not rPi, lol
[4:36] <Tachyon`> it was supposed to be an information retrieval system, which most implementations are not
[4:37] <LoganShaw> they all are information retrieval systems, you just may not like the information it retrieves
[4:38] <Tachyon`> one of them does nothing more than display a few static screens, one locates wifi hotspots, one is a fairly useful looking file manager and launcher
[4:39] <LoganShaw> what about the tricorder app on the market? that's pretty faithful to the original LCARS idea
[4:42] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm, anyone seen Chronicle?
[4:42] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:44] <Tachyon`> I hope that machine supports SDHC, I've just realised the largest image anyone has produced is 2GB, that is not a good sign
[4:46] <Tachyon`> oh, it does, never mind
[4:50] <LoganShaw> can raPI support SDHC?
[4:53] <feep> razpi
[4:53] <feep> and yes
[4:53] <feep> afaik
[4:56] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: * r-pi
[4:57] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[4:57] <LoganShaw> wait...did I just read the site correctly, NO BIOS???
[4:57] <mrdragons> Yep, nope
[4:57] <LoganShaw> no BIOS??? did they tell picasso no brush?!
[4:57] <mrdragons> In the conventional PC sense
[4:58] <feep> NO BIOS
[4:58] <feep> GPU STUB ONLY
[4:58] <feep> final destination.
[4:59] * cerberos (~cerberos@ has joined #raspberrypi
[5:00] * tnt_android (~yaaic@ has joined #raspberrypi
[5:01] <tnt_android> Hmm, this is easier to read
[5:01] <LoganShaw> can raPI be placed in a metallic altoids-like tin or would there be potential electrical complications?
[5:01] <tnt_android> Some do plan to do that
[5:02] <tnt_android> You'd have to insulate the bottom of the tin
[5:03] <tnt_android> That's all you have to be careful about
[5:04] <LoganShaw> what kind of insulation are we talking about here?
[5:07] <tnt_android> Like a piece or card or plastic
[5:08] <LoganShaw> a coat of acrylic paint? a sheet of plastic? those foam peanuts that come in boxes?
[5:08] <tnt_android> Just to stop everything on the board touching the metal tin
[5:09] * Hesmon_ (~fp@p4FE39270.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:09] <tnt_android> So a sheet of thin plastic should do
[5:09] <ShiftPlusOne> bad idea
[5:10] <mrdragons> Static
[5:10] <ShiftPlusOne> even if you put some cardboard in, it could wear through.
[5:11] <LoganShaw> all the pictures and videos I have seen of this thing there is no case and it seemed fine
[5:11] * Hesmon (~fp@p4FE3A68F.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:11] <ShiftPlusOne> a case is absolutely pointless, yes.
[5:12] * prbz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:12] <tnt_android> Hmm, could raise the board on standoffs
[5:12] * PiOfCube (~piofcube@piofcube.1billionhex.com) Quit (Quit: Shutting down.)
[5:12] <ShiftPlusOne> that would be a start
[5:14] <tnt_android> I think ima CNC a case from aluminium
[5:14] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[5:14] <tnt_android> Have the board raised up
[5:15] * prbz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:15] <LoganShaw> what about inside a wooden box? i have a small cigar box
[5:16] <ShiftPlusOne> I think I'll throw my pi in a cardboard box and not fuss about it too much. =) Though if you want an aluminium case, you can just buy one... they come in pretty much all sizes.
[5:16] <ShiftPlusOne> Wooden box is fine. I don't know how much heat the pi produces though, but ventilation may be required.
[5:17] <Tachyon`> I'll be using one as a basis for a wearable computer so something that'll stand up to punishment is needed
[5:18] <Tachyon`> was going to use hte pandora for that but like hell am I using something that expensive now this has appeared and will be much the same spec
[5:19] * tnt_android (~yaaic@ has left #raspberrypi
[5:19] <LoganShaw> like a cyborg?
[5:20] <ShiftPlusOne> wearable computer, ey? are you going for projection glasses sort of thing or one of those dorky strap on screens?
[5:21] <LoganShaw> I think he is going for wifi controlled pacemaker?
[5:24] * prbz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[5:25] * prbz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:27] <LoganShaw> okay thanks everybody you have all been rather helpful!
[5:28] * LoganShaw (~LoganShaw@pool-96-250-209-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) Quit ()
[5:32] <Tachyon`> ahh
[5:32] <Tachyon`> probably one of the vuzix head mounted displays
[5:32] <Tachyon`> they'll have a compltely transparent one out soon
[5:32] <Tachyon`> although a monocular one would do as I can only use one eye at a time anyway
[5:33] <Tachyon`> they have some that don't make you look a total twat
[5:35] <Tachyon`> http://www.vuzix.com/site/_news/2012/vuzix-SMART-Glasses-CES-2012.pdf
[5:36] <RITRedbeard> I might work for vuzix this summer
[5:36] <RITRedbeard> if they're looking for CS interns
[5:37] <RITRedbeard> I think I'm going to roll my own head mounted display anyway
[5:44] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad16.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[5:56] <Tachyon`> that might not be so easy
[5:56] <Tachyon`> http://store.vuzix.co.uk/acatalog/STAR_1200.html
[5:56] <Tachyon`> taht would be ideal, but the price, ghods
[5:56] <Tachyon`> not a chance in hell unfortunately
[5:59] <RITRedbeard> eh
[5:59] <RITRedbeard> It will be easy.
[6:00] <RITRedbeard> my design
[6:00] <RITRedbeard> Just a question if SPI is fast enough for my needs.
[6:00] <Tachyon`> I didn't really mean the electronics
[6:01] <Tachyon`> more actually assembling them into something you can wear and focus effectively
[6:13] <RITRedbeard> oh
[6:13] <RITRedbeard> paper mache
[6:13] <RITRedbeard> mmmm
[6:14] <RITRedbeard> for working model
[6:14] <RITRedbeard> then probably lexan
[6:14] <SpeedEvil> Tachyon`: are the ones that don't make you look like a twat significantly under a thousand dollars?
[6:14] <tntexplosivesltd> lexan ftw
[6:15] * SpeedEvil has 36m^3 of lexan in the corridor.
[6:15] <SpeedEvil> err
[6:15] <Tachyon`> erm, there's some for 250
[6:15] <SpeedEvil> ^2
[6:15] <Tachyon`> but htey're not transparent
[6:15] <Tachyon`> http://www.vuzix.com/consumer/products_wrap920.html
[6:15] <SpeedEvil> It's to replace the glass glazing in my greenhouse with something less frangible.
[6:16] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[6:16] <Tachyon`> those ones will take composite/vga inputs
[6:16] <Tachyon`> and ipod if you worship at the altar of Jobs
[6:16] <Tachyon`> which I do not, but sitll, it's there
[6:16] <Tachyon`> I believe there's an HDMI adapter available for it too
[6:17] <Tachyon`> so it would interface with the rpi quite well
[6:17] <Tachyon`> however that one is only 640x480 per eye
[6:17] <Tachyon`> there's another one that's 852x480 per eye but it's $500
[6:17] <Tachyon`> http://www.vuzix.com/consumer/products_wrap_1200.html
[6:18] <SpeedEvil> Also - if you want to do that, it's going to be _extremely_ painful even with an external camera
[6:18] <Tachyon`> that one, and I wouldn't really pay double just to have 30% more display area
[6:18] <Tachyon`> yeah, I think I'll wait for the star 1200 to drop to a sensible price
[6:18] <SpeedEvil> ~.1s or so at minimum delay
[6:18] <Tachyon`> aand perhaps get a 920 for the meantime
[6:18] <SpeedEvil> And a tiny field of view
[6:22] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[10:09] * warddr (~warddr@conference/fosdem/x-dbaoxzhbqdqkqdmx) Quit (Changing host)
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[10:09] * warddr is now known as warddr-FOSDEM
[10:09] * warddr-FOSDEM (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Client Quit)
[10:11] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[10:34] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:43] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:44] <MystX> Is it not out?
[10:44] <ShiftPlusOne> yes
[10:44] <MystX> Damn
[10:46] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:55] * mrdragons (~lucas@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[10:59] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:01] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:07] * ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) Quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
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[11:17] * genbattle (~quassel@118-93-47-103.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:26] <Hopsy> is it not not not out?
[11:26] <Edek> No.
[11:37] <weuxel> Is it out now?
[11:40] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:06] * uen| is now known as uen
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[13:19] <weuxel> fccccccccccv90000
[13:19] * prbz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[15:45] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
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[16:06] <feep> is it in yet?
[16:06] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:07] <Edek> No, no one knows
[16:07] <Edek> when it will be released
[16:08] <feep> yes I'm aware
[16:09] <feep> my line was a play in the classic phrase "is it out yet"
[16:09] * PiBot slaps feep across the face with a cast iron pan.
[16:09] <feep> PiBot: you're late!
[16:09] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:09] <feep> .. oh it was for that quote?
[16:09] <feep> hm
[16:09] <feep> I do not intend to raise any archetypal newb question in here such as "is it out yet"
[16:09] * PiBot slaps feep across the face with a cast iron pan.
[16:09] <feep> PiBot: how rude!
[16:09] <chris_99> is it out yet, feep? ;)
[16:09] * PiBot slaps chris_99 across the face with a cast iron pan.
[16:09] <feep> chris_99: well it has to get in before it can get out
[16:09] <feep> so we're waiting on that first
[16:10] * octeris (~remd@user-9654ea.user.msu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <chris_99> hopefully they'll have finished manufacturing soonish
[16:11] <feep> I really think they should keep us up to speed on whatever the manufacturers tell them
[16:11] * Freed (~jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) has left #raspberrypi
[16:12] <feep> I don't get why projects go for this weird "it's done when it's done, keep the fans in the dark" type of policy.
[16:12] <feep> Iunno, maybe I'm missing something
[16:13] <Hopsy> is it out yet?
[16:13] * PiBot slaps Hopsy across the face with a cast iron pan.
[16:13] <feep> maybe fabrication is this sort of arcane process where you can either know precisely how well it's going or how far along it is but not both at once
[16:13] <Hopsy> but is it out yet?
[16:13] * PiBot slaps Hopsy across the face with a cast iron pan.
[16:13] <feep> or maybe the companies operate under a strict veil of secrecy because even internal progress reports would give the competition too much info about their process
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[16:30] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[16:34] * prbz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:35] <Henchman21> would you prefer a webcam in the manufacturing plant? and at the workers homes?
[16:35] <Henchman21> i hear in china those are two in the same
[16:36] <Henchman21> working like 26hr days
[16:36] <ShiftPlusOne> Henchman21, not quite like that.
[16:36] <Henchman21> with suicide nets outside the building
[16:39] <ShiftPlusOne> I found it interesting that some Chinese people were surprised that almost everything overseas is made in China though.
[16:40] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[16:40] <ShiftPlusOne> You'd think that that would be something the government would advertise to people.
[16:41] <Henchman21> im pretty sure john stewart did a piece on it recently http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2012/01/17/jon-stewart-weighs-chinese-suicides-against-cost-of-iphone/
[16:42] * DaMummy|PND (~veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:43] <ShiftPlusOne> Hell, we have the same thing outside of the main casino.
[16:44] <ShiftPlusOne> There's a bridge people used to jump off after losing everything
[16:45] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:48] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:53] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[16:56] <ShiftPlusOne> But in all seriousness, the poorest people in China do live pretty horrible lives. However the Western media tends to take the worst and present it as the norm. The funny thing in that Chinese media does the same thing about the West.
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[16:58] <ukscone> morninng all
[16:59] <ShiftPlusOne> ahoy
[17:01] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:02] <Soul_Est> morning
[17:04] * heymaster (~heymaster@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:06] <Edek> hello
[17:10] * imnichol (~ian@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:13] <ukscone> i do wish people would take a break from posting on the forum. by the time i get to 0 unread posts and go get a cup of coffee there are another 10 unread posts
[17:13] <ukscone> it's worse than painting the forth bridge
[17:14] * krake (~krake@pC19F7E14.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:16] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:18] <ShiftPlusOne> make a post about it, I suppose... kindly requesting people to stop posting until you get your coffee..
[17:19] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) Quit (Quit: ??????)
[17:20] <DaQatz> ukscone, You have mod on the forum just ban the people who most in thos ehours ;)
[17:20] <Edek> how many posts are there roughly per day on the forums?
[17:22] <ShiftPlusOne> 42?
[17:22] <CuriosTiger> Good answer.
[17:23] <CuriosTiger> There's certainly enough enthusiasm
[17:23] <Edek> spot on
[17:23] <ukscone> DaQatz: liz et al might get a bit peeved if i bnned 967 people
[17:23] <Edek> ;)
[17:23] <DaQatz> ahhh
[17:23] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, from the brief exchanges I've had with her, I think she'd thank you.
[17:23] <ukscone> anyone in here any good at writing IF using TADS?
[17:24] * nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[17:24] * DaMummy|PND (~veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
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[17:28] <ShiftPlusOne> looks like a no
[17:29] <CuriosTiger> I have no idea what "IF" and "TADS" mean.
[17:29] <CuriosTiger> Does that help you?
[17:30] <ShiftPlusOne> Interactive fiction and Text Adventure Development System.... (thanks google)
[17:31] <mrdragons> !g IF
[17:31] <PiBot> mrdragons: http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm - "Poems - If--"
[17:31] <ukscone> OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.loweringthebar.net/2012/02/bottle-rocket.html
[17:31] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:33] <ShiftPlusOne> didn't think I'd see such words in a legal document " [Defendant] also owed plaintiff ... a duty of care not to drink under age, or to file bottle rockets out of his anus."
[17:34] <ShiftPlusOne> how did the judge rule, any idea?
[17:34] <ukscone> not yet
[17:34] <ukscone> friend sent me a link -- still reading
[17:34] <ukscone> i have to clean up the spit out coffee first though
[17:35] <Edek> I bet the judge must have burst into tears when he heard of the case
[17:35] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah... I had a mouthfull of water when I opene the link
[17:35] <ShiftPlusOne> didn't spit it out, but did almost drown
[17:35] * canton7 (~canton7@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[17:36] <Edek> it's worst when it goes up your nose...painfull!
[17:36] <Edek> how do you fire one out of your butt anway?
[17:38] <ShiftPlusOne> That's documented in Jackass, I believe.
[17:39] <koaschten> augh http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/02/05/1355259/half-of-fortune-500s-us-agencies-still-infected-with-dnschanger-trojan
[17:41] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev)
[17:44] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:44] <ShiftPlusOne> Anyone actually studied US tort laws? What are the requirements for something to be accepted as negligence?
[17:45] <mrdragons> I forget, I learned about it in gov't class though...
[17:45] <mrdragons> Oh oh oh, studied, no.
[17:48] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: if something happens and you haven't put a warning label covering such an occurance on the item then you are negligent is basically all the neegligence law theree is
[17:48] <Edek> warning: do not insert bottle into anus
[17:48] * piofcube (~piofcube@piofcube.1billionhex.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:49] <ShiftPlusOne> well no, that would be up to the makers of of the alcohol and fireworks... also some warning signs around the deck about the lack of railing, but it doesn't work that way.
[17:50] <ShiftPlusOne> Under Australian law, it doesn't look like he has much of a case.
[17:53] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[17:55] <ShiftPlusOne> Some counts may stick, since they did let underage people drink and didn't provide a safe environment on the deck, but I doubt he'd win anything in damages. ATO would be slapped with a fine or two and that would be it, I'd think.
[17:56] * ShiftPlusOne puts away the tort law textbook.
[17:59] <piofcube> Is the Raspberry Pi a tort? ;-)
[18:00] <ShiftPlusOne> it would be closer to a torte than a tort, but still no.
[18:01] <DaQatz> Made plenty of blackberry pies.
[18:01] <piofcube> I could have asked if it was out yet... I could ;-)
[18:01] <DaQatz> Never bothered to make one with raspberries.
[18:01] <ukscone> well an uncased one would be as i think a torte is an unlidded pie
[18:02] <DaQatz> Not all pies have top crusts.
[18:02] <ukscone> unless it's a flan of course but a flan has a spongecake base
[18:02] <DaQatz> Pecan, pumpkin, etc...
[18:02] <ukscone> DaQatz: the best pies have lids
[18:02] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh, a torte is more like a cake than a pie
[18:02] <piofcube> flan can also be a quiche
[18:02] <ukscone> DaQatz: they aren't pies they are american
[18:03] <DaQatz> Those are pies.
[18:03] <DaQatz> Whether you like it or not.
[18:03] <ukscone> piofcube: in my area a flan is a creme caramel (puerto rican/dominican/hispanic) ghetto
[18:04] <ShiftPlusOne> isn't a flan that thing from final fantasy x? that blobby elemental fiend....
[18:04] <DaQatz> Flan is a simple caramelized custard.
[18:04] * Datum_Errata (Datum_Erra@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:05] <ShiftPlusOne> Then why do you have to use magic?
[18:05] <piofcube> ukscone: I like those but not allowed them anymore... well, I do cheat now-and-again
[18:08] <ukscone> DaQatz: in the uk a flan is a open pie normally with a sponge cake base in spain & hispanic areas it's a baked custard
[18:08] <DaQatz> ukscone, in the states it's a baked custard too.
[18:08] <ukscone> piofcube: i think i'll play russian roulette with a custard tart later :)
[18:08] <DaQatz> As well as Canada, and most of Asia.
[18:08] <ukscone> DaQatz: well while i live in the states i don't use their language or dictionary
[18:09] <DaQatz> >.>
[18:09] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:09] <IT_Sean> 'ello
[18:09] <ShiftPlusOne> ahoy
[18:09] <ukscone> 'lo IT_Sean
[18:11] <DaQatz> You know what's odd ukscone, here we are in a chat room about a computer. And several times now you and me have had disagreements. Never about computers though. Only food.
[18:11] <ukscone> DaQatz: well food is important
[18:11] <ukscone> computers don't really matter in the grand scheme of things
[18:11] <ukscone> BUT food and drink them is fighting words
[18:11] <DaQatz> Lol
[18:12] <ukscone> DaQatz: BUT if you tell me you use apple hardware then i'd have to jump through the screen and beat you to within an inch of your life :)
[18:12] <DaQatz> Don't particularly like apple.
[18:13] * ukscone is being sent a 3 year old mac book by a friend in a week or so :)
[18:13] <ukscone> i have to turn off the anti-apple force field on the door jams though so it can pass through
[18:14] <DaQatz> What makes a computer easy for someone who is ignorant about computers, makes them very frustrating for those who know how to use them.
[18:14] <DaQatz> So yeah.
[18:14] <DaQatz> Not much for apple.
[18:17] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah, I was recently thinking about that. Steve Jobs had this big thing about making things which people "already know how to use", so there's the idea that we shouldn't learn how the tools that we use work. Then we wonder why so few people are able to program. =/
[18:20] <ukscone> jobs/apples view was not bend the tool to the users will but bend the user to the tools will
[18:20] * octeris (~remd@user-9654ea.user.msu.edu) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[18:20] <DaQatz> Yeah using computers when I was little was a good lesson. I learned pretty early on that while something may be hard to do it first, once you have worked on it, and learned it. You can have great rewards and do amazing things.
[18:21] <DaQatz> Now if it just doesn't work right now.
[18:21] <ukscone> and also limit the hardware so only a minimim number of 3rd party things will work. that is one thing that i admore about ms over apple
[18:21] <DaQatz> They get bored and walk away.
[18:21] <ukscone> ms basically said if someone makes it we will support it as best we can but jobs took the easy out
[18:21] <ukscone> it's easy to be stable if you don't allow for more than 5 configurations
[18:21] <DaQatz> They aren't pushed to challenge themselves, and put in the effort to do new things.
[18:22] * DaQatz nods.
[18:25] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't mind the hardware limitations too much... it helps with stability, so you can have a certain confidence that what you buy is well tested and will work without any issues. Contrast that to buying hardware for your linux box... you've got to do a fair bit of research sometimes. That's not that important nowadays, but even 10 years ago bad hardware could cripple your computer.
[18:33] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:35] <ShiftPlusOne> ... nothing kills a conversation like suggesting that Apple isn't all THAT bad?
[18:38] * IT_Sean burps
[18:38] * mrdragons kind of chuckles
[18:39] * ShiftPlusOne gets his coat.
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[18:48] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: i was off talking to the wife bemoaning that jethro tull isn't in the R&R hall of fame
[18:49] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[18:51] <ShiftPlusOne> first time hearing of them
[18:51] * octeris (~remd@user-9654ea.user.msu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:51] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: you have never heard of jethro tull????????????????????
[18:52] <ukscone> i knew you lived on the arse of the earth but bleeding heck talk about provincial
[18:52] <ShiftPlusOne> excuse me for being 23 and not british
[18:53] <ukscone> if nothing else at least listen/watch this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgAfSQLJlAM
[18:53] <ShiftPlusOne> I was just listening to aqualung.
[18:53] <ukscone> k
[18:53] <ukscone> that's good too
[18:54] <ukscone> some albums are great the others just good
[18:54] <ukscone> the broadsword and the beast is an aquired taste i think. i love it but not everyone does
[18:55] <ShiftPlusOne> locomotive breath reminds me of Rush
[18:56] <ukscone> hmmmmmm yeah suppose so
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[18:57] * Tachyon` (~tachyon@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust489.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Rebooting/Upgrading)
[19:00] * bob___ (~bob@88-108-85-84.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:00] <ShiftPlusOne> but yeah, all in all not bad.
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[19:07] <bob___> nnn
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[19:13] <slacer> hi all
[19:14] <ShiftPlusOne> ahoy
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[19:49] <Cheery> I'm bit sad I don't have raspberrypi yet..
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[19:57] <nplus> me too
[19:58] * Squirm (~sinjin@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:58] <Squirm> hi
[19:59] <nplus> Squirm: hello
[20:00] <Squirm> I suppose the most asked question is when will it be available hey
[20:00] <Squirm> :P
[20:03] * jolo2 (jolo2@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:03] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-249.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] <mrdragons> Is it out yet?
[20:04] * PiBot slaps mrdragons across the face with a cast iron pan.
[20:04] <Squirm> mrdragons: I'm just as curious
[20:05] <Squirm> curious more as to when
[20:05] * ukscone1 (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:06] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[20:08] <mrdragons> Squirm: Eh, I'm relatively indifferent as long as I know it's coming out. :P
[20:09] <mrdragons> I don't mind waiting a bit
[20:10] <Squirm> mrdragons: It better ^^ I'm curious to know when it's expected to be released(March, April, May), cause I read somewhere December, but that's past.
[20:11] <mrdragons> those were all optimistic predictions, there wasn't and is still yet to be an official release date
[20:11] <mrdragons> I'm guessing mid-march to early april
[20:11] <Squirm> eh, I don't need a release date. just some month so I stop checking as often as I do
[20:12] <nplus> are there any computers out there with similar-ish power consumption to the rpi? like plug computers for less than $100?
[20:12] <nplus> i'm looking for a low power linux box
[20:12] <mrdragons> True, you should do what I'm going to do and write a script that constantly checks the sales page. :P
[20:12] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[20:12] <Dagger3> nplus: wireless routers, if you count them
[20:13] <nplus> most of the plug computers I've come across are$100-$250
[20:13] <mrdragons> Hmmm, beagle bone maybe?
[20:13] <mrdragons> It's similar-ish
[20:13] <nplus> Dagger3: Hmm.. hadn't actually considered that. Can you think of any that have some form of storage?
[20:13] <rm> nplus, the TL703N
[20:14] <rm> or TL-WRwhatever
[20:14] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:14] <Dagger3> I have a... yeah, a one of those. http://www.volumerates.com/product/tp-link-tl-wr703n-openwrt-compatible-pocket-11n-150m-3g-mobile-wireless-broadband-router--blue-ship-with-openwrt-pre-installed-upon-customers-request-103048
[20:14] <rm> http://embeddedtimes.blogspot.com/2011/09/tp-link-tl-wr703n-tiny-linux-capable.html
[20:14] <Dagger3> 4 MB flash, but it has a USB port so you can hook up whatever
[20:14] <nplus> huh, awesome
[20:14] <nplus> i'll take a look at those
[20:14] <rm> but it's much less of a 'real computer' than the rPI
[20:15] * friggle_ is now known as friggle
[20:15] * stevepdp (~stevepdp@fsf/member/stevepdp) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:15] <rm> Dagger3, I wish there was USB RAM :D
[20:15] <nplus> I was just going to say that 32MB isn't a whole lot of RAM
[20:15] <Squirm> can't you run hdd space as ram?
[20:15] <Squirm> not as fast/efficient
[20:16] <Dagger3> swap file on SSD would be pretty close on USB 2.0
[20:16] <Squirm> yeah
[20:16] <Squirm> swap
[20:16] <Squirm> ^^
[20:18] * prbz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:18] <nplus> I doubt debian would run on the tl-wr703n regardless :/
[20:18] <mrdragons> How long would flash memory last practically used as ram though?
[20:18] <Dagger3> it will, although the 32 MB RAM is a bit limiting
[20:18] <Dagger3> and you'll need to use USB storage
[20:20] <Squirm> I've been working quite a bit with Mikrotik equipment. they're in the range of $100, I know they run a linux based distro, but it's not actually a usable linux distro, it just does certain set things
[20:20] <Dagger3> I wouldn't swap on the onboard flash on that thing... but swapping to USB, who cares? just replace the thing when it dies
[20:21] * prbz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:21] <mrdragons> USB drives have a theoretical limit of about ~10,000 writes though
[20:22] <mrdragons> Using that as ram you'd be burning out flash drives like every other day if you're using the pi 24/7
[20:22] <Dagger3> per flash block
[20:22] <Dagger3> http://www.bress.net/blog/archives/114-How-Long-Does-a-Flash-Drive-Last.html has an actual test
[20:22] <nplus> I think I'd need something with a bit more real RAM than the tlwr703
[20:23] <nplus> cool idea though
[20:23] <nplus> gotta run for a few...
[20:23] <rm> then you're looking at *plugs
[20:24] <rm> for at least $99
[20:25] <mrdragons> Dagger3: Huh, cool. 90.5million writes is well beyond what I was expecting. 0_o
[20:25] <mrdragons> He should really try with a couple more drives of various brands though
[20:27] <Squirm> Dagger3: that's an interesting test
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[20:48] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:53] <nplus> rm: yeah, plugs are still on the expensive side
[20:54] <nplus> beaglebone looks pretty decent though
[20:57] * eadle (56877563@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] <eadle> hello
[20:58] * phil_12d3 (56b70ca7@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] <rm> 256 MB of RAM on the beaglebone
[20:58] <rm> and for $89
[21:00] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@c-24-11-54-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:00] <rm> and doesn't seem to have any display output
[21:01] * eadle (56877563@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Client Quit)
[21:01] <nplus> display isn't needed for my application - but i understand that cost wise it's significantly more than a rpi
[21:02] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[21:02] <nplus> I guess I should have stated "compared to most plug computers"
[21:02] <nplus> ..that are actually available
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[21:08] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:09] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:12] * ukscone1 (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:15] * barr5790 (~alan@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[21:16] * gomiboy (~frodone@ppp-12-6.21-151.libero.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:24] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:28] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:28] * DaMummy|PND (~veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:29] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:30] <nplus> are there any tentative prices for the necessary accessories for the rpi?
[21:30] <nplus> power source and the preloaded cards
[21:30] <haltdef> no word on the stuff the foundation will be selling themselves yet
[21:30] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:32] <DaQatz> They have said they plan to sell preploaded cards. But you won't need to buy one of theirs. You can use pretty much any SD and just DL the image.
[21:33] <nplus> of course, i didn't mean to imply that their cards were necessary
[21:34] <DaQatz> The power supplies should be cheap. You should be able to get one from just about anyplace that sells stuff for cell phones or small devices.
[21:34] <DaQatz> I have half a dozen cords that will power the device from a usb port.
[21:34] <nplus> just a micro usb charger ~700mA right?
[21:34] <DaQatz> They all came with various devices.
[21:35] <DaQatz> 700mA for B
[21:35] <nplus> right
[21:35] <DaQatz> 500mA for A
[21:35] <DaQatz> Butthe 700 would work on the A as well.
[21:35] <nplus> of course
[21:36] * mjr just ordered a couple of mini-to-micro-usb adapters for his old 1A chargers
[21:40] * Romano (~romano@095160177171.slubice.vectranet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:43] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:46] <DaMummy|PND> rpi has male or female hdmi?
[21:47] <haltdef> female
[21:48] * pistacik1_ is now known as pistacik__
[21:52] * pavlo_pl (~pawel@host-46-186-13-5.dynamic.mm.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:53] * diplo (~diplo@5ad6e9e7.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:57] * whyzfreenode is now known as whyz
[22:00] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:06] * ice1712_ (~uae10@ip-89-102-105-205.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:14] <Henchman21> heh
[22:14] * jolo2 (~jolo2@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:14] <MystX> hah
[22:15] <Henchman21> dont think male end points exist
[22:16] <Henchman21> cable should be male/male while tv/computers use the labia
[22:17] <MystX> 0.o
[22:18] <Henchman21> house the labia endpoints*
[22:19] <MystX> Has OK Go ever made a dull music video?
[22:19] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:19] <MystX> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MejbOFk7H6c <- their latest
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[23:03] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[23:06] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[23:10] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:11] <DaQatz> !channel #raspberrypi-dev
[23:11] <PiBot> DaQatz: #raspberrypi-dev - Chat room for Raspberry PI development discussion.
[23:12] <Henchman21> pretty quiet though
[23:12] <Henchman21> cept the dumb bot repeating peoples mindlessness
[23:12] <DaQatz> Yeah quiet atm.
[23:13] <DaQatz> Will be less so after release.
[23:13] <Henchman21> latest "<@PiBot> ukscone| <ukscone> Dear Santa. I've been good all year...Well most of the year....Okay f**k it, i'll buy my own
[23:13] <DaQatz> When I joined this channel there was 2 or 3 other people in it.
[23:14] <Henchman21> a whole 16 now
[23:14] <DaQatz> This channel
[23:14] <DaQatz> Not that one
[23:14] <DaQatz> Hard to dev without hardware.
[23:14] <DaQatz> Though it is do able.
[23:14] <ReggieUK> it's ukscone's channel, so pibot stays :D
[23:15] * heraclitus_ (~heraclitu@sa-186-193.saturn.infonet.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:15] <Henchman21> i stumbled across raspberry pi, i recieved some spam mail from an @mail.com user never heard of mail.com so went there and rasp-pi was on a news article on the front page
[23:15] <DaQatz> If the population of #raspberrypi-dev goes up enough the welcomes will be muted in there though.
[23:15] <DaQatz> Won't need the spam of the bot with people talking.
[23:16] * urs (urs@nerdbox2.nerd2nerd.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:17] * smjms (~janne@dyn2-212-50-133-158.psoas.suomi.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:18] <DaQatz> Dev should never be as busy as main though, other wise it would make it very hard for any technical discussion.
[23:18] * pavlo_pl (~pawel@host-46-186-13-5.dynamic.mm.pl) Quit (Quit: Wychodzi)
[23:18] <ukscone> Henchman21: i don't particularly like all the pibot welcome message spamming but then again i also have it on ignore along with 20 people in heree so i don;t see most of the crap
[23:18] <ukscone> wonderful inveention the ignore button
[23:19] * NIN101 (~NIN@ Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[23:23] * imnichol (~ian@ Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[23:28] <DaQatz> ukscone, yet so many ops in channels prefer the ban button to it.
[23:28] <DaQatz> And ban people they find annoying.
[23:30] <Tachyon`> anyone managed to connect and LCD/OLED to the internal connector on the Pi yet?
[23:30] <Tachyon`> that 640x360 Nokia OLED display mentione on the wiki looks promising, feed it an EGA 8x14 font and you have a proper console
[23:31] <heraclitus_> ukscone, thank you for compiling my basic. unfortunately i have no more idea what a simple language should be, and no one would start to use any new language
[23:33] * octeris (~remd@user-9654ea.user.msu.edu) has left #raspberrypi
[23:34] <ukscone> DaQatz: my philosiphy(sic) is that live and let die. if they are only trolling or being annoying unless it goes over the top and really cause trouble then there is always the ignore button so why ban them it only encourages them
[23:34] <ukscone> heraclitus_: tiny basic for ncurses is yours?
[23:35] <heraclitus_> ukscone, yes
[23:36] <ukscone> heraclitus_: thanks for doing it. i used it for messing around but it could be a nice lightweight basic for things like arduino's and other small ram systems
[23:37] <ukscone> DaQatz: also i really don't know how to ban people anyway :) which is why it_Sean & ShiftPlusOne were made ops -- that way they can do the dirty work and RTFM so they can do things :)
[23:38] <DaQatz> Kicking and banning is pretty easy.
[23:38] * FollowingGhosts (~quassel@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:38] * taaz (~dlehn@pool-96-240-180-210.ronkva.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:38] <DaQatz> Though should not be done in excess imo.
[23:39] <ukscone> yup only as a last resort and even then give a couple of chances to change first
[23:40] <heraclitus_> ukscone, i would really like language like this... python style with indent blocks, and in blocks, only two statements for if, and any loop stuff... check <expression> and loop <expression>, first jumps to the end of block when the condition is not true, and second jumps to the beginning of the block, when the condition is true, plus else, as a variable
[23:41] <heraclitus_> ukscone, but this makes no sense to make such language, because no one would start to use a new language
[23:41] <ukscone> heraclitus_: i keep looking at the source for OPL. it is a very nice basiclike dialect
[23:41] <ukscone> heraclitus_: well i wonder if matz and guido thought that too -- they started to do something for themselves and it just grew
[23:42] <feep> things you start for yourself tend to do that
[23:43] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:45] <heraclitus_> ukscone, i don't know OPL basic... but it's likely better, as BBC basic doesn't look a good option, it is not simple at all, and otherwise it looks like sucked out from a pen
[23:45] <ukscone> heraclitus_: i no longer have a working mipsbook (it's in about 100 pieces from when i tried to debrick it) but i also built your tb4c for mips and blackfin too. works nicely in emulators at least
[23:45] * taaz (~dlehn@pool-96-240-177-123.ronkva.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:45] <ukscone> OPL was the basic in the psion organiser originally it was called POPL then it became OPL
[23:46] * atts (~adam@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[23:48] <heraclitus_> i think there should be python and then some very simple basic, because python is good, but not exactly simple. even if one uses python with curses, curses is not that simple library at all, there is simplified curses in my basic
[23:49] <heraclitus_> neither is any graphics library simple, for beginners there should be some simplified version
[23:50] <ukscone> heraclitus_: not managed to get it built correctly on ARM due to freepascal being a pig on arm to build but have you seen EGSL?
[23:50] <ukscone> it's lua with basicisms
[23:51] <ukscone> http://egsl.retrogamecoding.org/
[23:51] <heraclitus_> i see
[23:52] <ukscone> it's pretty good and there is somethingelse very similar called jameter which is also ok a bit heavy but ok -- both use SDL but still pretty good
[23:54] <heraclitus_> what i wanted to say, i prefer a simple language without goto, but because no one would start to use a new language, then the only option for simplest language i found was tiny basic, with goto
[23:56] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[23:57] <ukscone> i actually don't mind goto or gosub, they sort of exist in the assembly nmemonics so i see nothing wrong with them no matter how many people say they are bad/evil
[23:57] <heraclitus_> egsl cannot be the simplest language, because it's graphical, etc, but if a bit less simple language is ok then it might be a good option
[23:59] <ukscone> bbiab -- need to do the washing up and get the superbowl nibbles started
[23:59] <ukscone> maybe add some simple framebuffer graphics primatives to tb4c

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