#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-02-06

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:01] <heraclitus_> imho, bad and evil is not goto, but the way it is used. if all end points of jumps are marked with comments and they are also beginnings or ends of meaningful blocks, then goto does not make the code much worse
[0:03] <SpeedEvil> And if the logic flow does not become more convoluted.
[0:04] <heraclitus_> logic flow is good as long as the blocks are clearly determined
[0:06] * schigndix (~schigndix@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:07] * nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:08] <heraclitus_> this, using loops and multi statement if-s, is really a block style, everything comes from the fact that there are blocks of code
[0:10] <heraclitus_> and there can only be jumps to the beginning or end of block
[0:10] * schigndix (~schigndix@ Quit (Client Quit)
[0:14] <heraclitus_> ok, was nice to see you ukscone, have to go to sleep, good night and see you
[0:14] * heraclitus_ (~heraclitu@sa-186-193.saturn.infonet.ee) has left #raspberrypi
[0:17] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:18] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-249.molalla.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[0:20] * Datum_Errata (Datum_Erra@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:22] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[0:23] * o19 (~o19@pD957C5AE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] * nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev)
[0:29] * knotty (~void@loin.ailleurs.org) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:30] <piofcube> I don't mind most of the trolls that come here... In fact I haven't needed to ignore any in this channel so far... quite an achievement for a public chat area ;-)
[0:34] * jolo2 (~jolo2@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[0:34] * smw trolls piofcube
[0:35] <smw> piofcube, we will not be ignored!
[0:37] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[0:37] * PiBot slaps Thorn_ across the face with a cast iron pan.
[0:41] * knotty (~void@loin.ailleurs.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:43] * bleh (d8fc557e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[0:43] <smw> what happens when it comes out and PiBot is not told?
[0:44] * bleh is now known as Guest56039
[0:44] <smw> he will be slapping people with an iron pan for nothing
[0:44] * mrdragons (~lucas@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:48] <SpeedEvil> Slapping people with an iron pan is its own reward.
[0:49] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc1-belf7-0-0-cust981.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:52] * Davespice_ (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:53] * Datum_Errata (Datum_Erra@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:55] * o19 (~o19@pD957C5AE.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #raspberrypi
[0:59] * geoff (~geoff@host-2-99-133-18.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:00] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[1:01] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] * whyz (~e@h145n7-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Quit: bbl)
[1:04] * feep (~feep@p5B2B4307.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:05] * feep (~feep@p5B2B51EA.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] * geoff (~geoff@host-2-99-133-18.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[1:06] * whyz (~e@h145n7-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:15] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:17] * Guest56039 (d8fc557e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #raspberrypi
[1:21] <Soul_Est> well of course since PiBot is a bot :P
[1:22] <feep> I just want to note
[1:22] <feep> it is mathematically impossible that pibot is -bots certified.
[1:23] <mrdragons> He's been here almost since the beginning
[1:23] <mrdragons> Er, it's been here
[1:23] <feep> doesn't matter! :D
[1:23] <feep> unless the rules got amended
[1:23] <mrdragons> At the end it's the op's decision.
[1:23] <feep> mh :/
[1:23] * javiertot (51cbb3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[1:23] <javiertot> Hi
[1:23] <mrdragons> Herro
[1:24] <DaMummy|PND> ror
[1:24] <mrdragons> Rawr?
[1:24] <javiertot> I've read several threads and faqs on the forum but I don't know nothing about the release date of raspberry Pi
[1:24] <javiertot> anyone?
[1:25] <javiertot> knows
[1:25] <DaMummy|PND> nobody does
[1:25] <mrdragons> Still no official release date
[1:25] <javiertot> :(
[1:25] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:25] <mrdragons> Likely in the next month or two.
[1:25] <mrdragons> Is it out yet?
[1:25] * PiBot slaps mrdragons across the face with a cast iron pan.
[1:27] <javiertot> not by the moment mrdragons
[1:27] <javiertot> I wish this month come true the rasp ^^
[1:27] <javiertot> but for the moments I lose the faith
[1:31] <Tachyon`> hmm
[1:32] <MystX> You people have no patience. Ive been waiting for black mesa for years
[1:32] * nighty- (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:34] <Soul_Est> I'll wait for March
[1:35] * cerberos (~cerberos@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:36] <MystX> after which..?
[1:36] <Soul_Est> I'll continue checking
[1:36] <MystX> lol
[1:37] <Soul_Est> March 1st is merely a milestone. A day that I must check the site a few times. ;)
[1:37] <SpeedEvil> It's clearly gonna be March 14.
[1:40] <MystX> april 1st
[1:41] <victhor> "I\"ve been naming my devices after Decepticons, so I\"m thinking my first Rasberry Pi will be named Overkill." I wonder if this guy will use a pi for a trivial application
[1:41] <victhor> arm11 is far from "overkill"... :)
[1:42] <javiertot> Black Mesa rulz
[1:42] <javiertot> :)
[1:42] <MystX> Ill probably just continue with scrubs characters. although im runing out
[1:43] * doug_ndndn (~doug@2001:470:1f09:18c8:219:d2ff:fe3d:7524) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:43] <javiertot> I need a new project , since megaupload was closed I'm bored :P
[1:43] <MystX> What's a good scrubs name for a blade server?
[1:43] <MystX> Someone who's real skinny on the show..
[1:43] * patmahon (quassel@nat/nokia/x-aeswdryjwqnqeruz) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:44] * doug_ndndn (~doug@2001:470:1f09:18c8:219:d2ff:fe3d:7524) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] * Soul_Est doesn't watch Scrubs
[1:45] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[1:45] <Soul_Est> victhor: the GPU is overkill tho
[1:45] <Soul_Est> *though
[1:46] <victhor> always innovating has such cool products, but they are never released... sigh.
[1:47] <SpeedEvil> Arm11 is often overkill.
[1:47] <SpeedEvil> A number of my projects for Pis might be quite adequately doable with pic10F devices.
[1:47] <SpeedEvil> Which have around 20 bytes of RAM.
[1:47] <victhor> I bet some will end up being used as LED flashers
[1:47] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[1:48] <victhor> hmm the always innovating guy seems to love wall-e.
[1:48] <SpeedEvil> For example - yes, I could wire up a long cable, and hook it to a serial adaptor.
[1:48] <SpeedEvil> Which goes to a small micro.
[1:48] <SpeedEvil> Or I could simply jam a wifi stick into a Pi.
[1:51] <victhor> "Since 2011, Always Innovating doesn't sell any more to individual consumers and has focused its activities on licensing business." heh, not surprised
[2:05] * imnichol (~ian@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:09] <MystX> The superbowl started yet?
[2:19] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2:20] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:22] * imnichol_ (~ian@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:30] * javiertot (51cbb3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[2:30] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:30] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-0-231-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:38] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:47] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[2:59] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:00] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[3:00] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB0FBB.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:03] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:05] * uen (~uen@p5DCB22BA.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[3:21] <victhor> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/592#comment-10369
[3:21] <victhor> I wonder if this guy owns a computer...
[3:22] <victhor> ...because 80% of GPU products for the PC today have some sort of MPEG decoding...
[3:24] <victhor> this guy has been paying fees to MPEG-LA patent troll association for years, probably, and never realized it. :P
[3:29] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:34] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit ()
[3:38] <Dagger3> that is a really poor reason to be happy about paying the fees (again) when you do realize it
[3:43] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:46] * Mojo (48d814c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[4:09] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@CPE0017f2324fce-CM0012250096a8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[4:11] * zhoeon_ (18e29abc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[4:17] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:18] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-0-231-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:24] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:29] * jsewell (~chatzilla@ Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120129021758])
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[4:36] * stez (59647ca7@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Client Quit)
[4:38] * thrawed (5ec57fef@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[4:39] <thrawed> hi
[4:41] * Datum_Errata (Datum_Erra@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:58] * thrawed (5ec57fef@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[4:59] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:05] * Hesmon_ (~fp@p4FDB77BF.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:08] * Hesmon (~fp@p4FE3A68F.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[5:09] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:17] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad16.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[5:21] * prbz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:25] * prbz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[5:32] * imnichol (~ian@ Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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[5:56] * Datum_Errata (~ivarr@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[6:02] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:09] * jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:14] <jyfl987> hi, want to know if raspberrypi is made in china
[6:15] <rm> yes
[6:16] <jyfl987> so can you ship it from chinese factory for those chinese customer like me
[6:17] <rm> I see what you mean, but no, as far as we know they will ship all production to UK first for testing, etc
[6:17] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-249.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:17] <rm> maybe later
[6:17] <MystX> They'll be distributed through suppliers later on
[6:20] <jyfl987> i need this shipping way because of two reason: 1, the shipping fee; 2, the chinese Customs officer often detain some electory product from sent from out of china
[6:20] <jyfl987> they say for security reason :[
[6:20] * Datum_Errata (~ivarr@mail.cstcm.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:21] * Datum_Errata (~ivarr@mail.cstcm.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:21] <MystX> Hmm that's pretty.. Hypocritical
[6:21] <jyfl987> and the price of raspberrypi is more valuable for chinese customer, i can see the huge needs from china
[6:21] * imnichol (~ian@ Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[6:22] <MystX> Well, there may be a supplier in china eventually, but unfortunately the first batch will all ship form the UK
[6:22] * imnichol (~ian@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:22] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[6:22] <jyfl987> MystX: our grandpas support the CCP which cause this, so self do , self have
[6:24] <jyfl987> another question is that do you have any other purpose for this machine except connect to the TV
[6:25] <MystX> Do i personally? Or anyone?
[6:25] <jyfl987> anyone
[6:25] <MystX> I personally probably wont connect a single one to a TV. And plan to buy quite a few
[6:27] <jyfl987> i just mentioned that there's many e cars runs on EU,
[6:27] <MystX> EU?
[6:27] <jyfl987> europe
[6:28] <MystX> er, right
[6:29] <jyfl987> then is it possible to connect raspberrypi to your e cars and writting program for control car
[6:33] <jyfl987> like most ecar can save enery when the car slow down, some one got enery from the braking period, but the problem is human user couldnt know where is the best time to brake for extreme low electory use
[6:33] <jyfl987> but computer could
[6:45] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:45] * imnichol (~ian@ Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[6:50] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:52] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:55] * SpeedEvil listens to 'You and Yours' of yesterday, and hears yet anohter mainstream media namecheck.
[6:56] <SpeedEvil> jyfl987: Sure they can.
[6:56] <SpeedEvil> jyfl987: You don't brake.
[6:56] <SpeedEvil> jyfl987: Braking is failure.
[6:56] <SpeedEvil> You plan all your driving to coast to a stop.
[6:57] <SpeedEvil> If you must brake, brake moderately hard.
[6:59] <jyfl987> yes, i wish i can own a e-car
[7:00] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:00] <SpeedEvil> There is only one issue with e-cars.
[7:00] <SpeedEvil> Batteries suck.
[7:02] <jyfl987> yep, but i can accpet the 200- km limitation
[7:02] <jyfl987> for city life its enough
[7:02] <SpeedEvil> 200km means an expensive, heavy battery.
[7:02] <DaQatz> I don't want an ecar.
[7:02] <DaQatz> I want to instantly transport places.
[7:03] <jyfl987> DaQatz: i live in beijing, no one would paid for my will-comming lung cancer , so i need e-car
[7:05] <SpeedEvil> jyfl987: 200km range = ~20kWh of battery.
[7:05] <SpeedEvil> jyfl987: This is 100Kg of high quality lithium-ion batteries.
[7:06] <SpeedEvil> Or 500Kg of lead-acid
[7:06] <jyfl987> SpeedEvil: dont care of that, i care of heathy
[7:07] <SpeedEvil> jyfl987: So filter the air.
[7:07] <SpeedEvil> jyfl987: Petrol vehicles can be quite clean. If emissions regulations are enforced.
[7:07] * jolo2 (~jolo2@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:08] <SpeedEvil> jyfl987: China however doesn't have nearly the same regulations as (say) California.
[7:08] <SpeedEvil> (As I understand it)
[7:08] <Ben64> china has huge pollution problem
[7:36] * izua (~izua@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:36] * izua (~izua@ Quit (Changing host)
[7:36] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:44] <SpeedEvil> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/27158 - Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing
[7:45] <SpeedEvil> May be of interest
[7:48] <jyfl987> Ben64: yes
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[7:55] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:02] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:03] * mctushy (~James@cpe-76-170-134-219.socal.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[8:08] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:14] * izua (~izua@unaffiliated/izua) Quit (Quit: :tiuQ)
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[8:27] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[8:32] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:33] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[8:38] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[8:45] * mrdragons (~lucas@ Quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds)
[8:51] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[8:56] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[9:08] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-249.molalla.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[9:37] * diplo (~diplo@cpc1-trow1-0-0-cust13.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:43] <Mowi> Hello
[9:43] <SpeedEvil> o
[9:49] <ahven> ohell
[9:51] <Henchman21> elho
[9:51] <Henchman21> 250 Ok
[9:54] * mjorgensen (quassel@nat/nokia/x-senkwvxempjdjvwy) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[9:57] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:04] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:07] <smw> Henchman21, what, no capabilities?
[10:10] <Henchman21> 221 closing connection
[10:11] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:11] * mjorgensen (quassel@nat/nokia/x-pbyprntijokaipmu) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:23] <Henchman21> BORED
[10:25] * drazyl (~drazyl@60-142.dsl.data.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:37] * cian1500ww (~cian1500w@insanity.cianmcgovern.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[10:37] * ice1712_ (~uae10@ip-89-102-105-205.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[10:38] * ice1712_ (~uae10@ip-89-102-105-205.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:39] * cian1500ww (~cian1500w@insanity.cianmcgovern.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:39] * ewan (~ewan@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:40] * ewan (~ewan@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:40] * DexterLB (~angel@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:43] * folays (folays@hyrule.folays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:44] * folays (folays@hyrule.folays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:47] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:08] * sral (~sral@g228253042.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:10] * jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[11:12] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[11:14] * DexterLB (~angel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:15] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:16] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:30] <Da|Mummy> hows rpi with 2.4ghz wireless receivers?
[11:30] * donkey (5b8fb3b5@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[11:30] <rm> you mean like for keyboard and mouse? fine
[11:31] <Da|Mummy> ya. thank you
[11:32] * donkey (5b8fb3b5@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Client Quit)
[11:32] * Mavy (mavfree@unaffiliated/mavy) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:37] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:48] * Draio (51ae1f5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[11:48] <Draio> Hi
[11:49] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-ybvjeshkvklwkkmh) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:50] * jluisn (~quassel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:50] <ahven> http://hothardware.com/News/Details-Emerge-About-the-Spark-LinuxBased-Tablet/
[11:50] <ahven> more arms!
[11:51] * arunatsu (~bluejay@dynamic2-225-040.usc.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:51] * arunatsu (~bluejay@dynamic2-225-040.usc.edu) has left #raspberrypi
[11:51] * arunatsu (~bluejay@dynamic2-225-040.usc.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:51] * arunatsu (~bluejay@dynamic2-225-040.usc.edu) has left #raspberrypi
[11:52] * Davespice_ (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[11:56] <Draio> yes, interesting. But I'll believe it when I see it on the market
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> I suspect they've simply managed to get docs on an androuid tablet somehow
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> Which is a worthwhile achievement on its own of course.
[11:57] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[11:58] * MinToN (ident@cpc1-oxfd7-0-0-cust545.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:58] * victhor (~victhor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:59] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:00] <MinToN> morning
[12:00] <Draio> morning
[12:01] <ahven> more devices = more competition = bigger pricedrops? :)
[12:03] <Draio> Ci sono ITALIANI qui?
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> The numbers for making something like a tablet are scary.
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> You likely need a substantial slice of a million to get it into production, with a first run of a few thousand.
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> $10K for the first prototype would be doing well.
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> First fully working prototype - not in the final case
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt - a short bit on why open-source hardware is hard.
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> compile-test is _expensive_
[12:05] <Draio> Of course, in comparison make the raspberry is a game.
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> The pi is a similar order of magnitude, some bits are lots easier.
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> (on the pi)
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> Especially as presumably they could presumably have substantial help from broadcom internal engineering
[12:08] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:09] <Draio> Yes. My first impression is that Aaron Seigo have a good contact with a chinese firm that produce android tablets. However it's interesting
[12:09] * sral (~sral@g228253042.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> Indeed. It's the only way that makes sense, unless you've got a lot of spare cash.
[12:14] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[12:14] <Draio> don't forget the "time" variable ... to be ready (and on the market) in 3 months this project should began more that one year ago
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> Yes
[12:16] <victhor> it seems rhombus tech did not read that text :P
[12:18] <Draio> do you mean "why open-source hardware is hard" ?
[12:18] <Draio> :-)
[12:18] * hopsy (20027@ninthfloor.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> Draio: err - what? I'm not really awake at the moment - been up 20h
[12:20] * hopsy (20027@ninthfloor.org) has left #raspberrypi
[12:20] <Draio> SpeedEvil: i was answering to victhor ...
[12:22] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@CPE0017f2324fce-CM0012250096a8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> Draio: ah
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> sorry - see above
[12:23] <Draio> SpeedEvil: are you italian?
[12:27] * aarch (~z@ip-115.viapori.fi) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[12:27] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:28] * zutesmog (~timh@CPE-124-177-48-120.lns5.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:33] <RaTTuS|BIG> from previos comments I think SpeedEvil is british - he just uses tor - I could be worng though
[12:33] <RaTTuS|BIG> [usually am]
[12:33] * Tachyon` (~tachyon@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust489.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (*.net *.split)
[12:33] * MrNfector (~MrNfector@ Quit (*.net *.split)
[12:33] * Iota_ (~contact@zooserv.eu) Quit (*.net *.split)
[12:33] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-244-196.telstraclear.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
[12:33] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (*.net *.split)
[12:33] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
[12:33] * CodeBlock (~CodeBlock@fedora/CodeBlock) Quit (*.net *.split)
[12:33] * Iota (~contact@zooserv.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:35] * MrNfector (~MrNfector@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:35] * Tachyon` (~tachyon@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust489.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:35] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-244-196.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:35] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> I don't use tor.
[12:36] * mcp_ (~mcp@93-82-81-28.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> I am Scottish.
[12:36] <haltdef> my condolences
[12:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> 1/2 right then .. i'm getting better
[12:37] <Draio> :-) ... sorry ... i saw we are connected on "calvino.freenode.net [Milan, IT]" ...
[12:37] <Draio> however i'm from Milan and i'm connected on "rowling.freenode.net [Corvallis, OR, USA]"
[12:37] * CodeBlock (~CodeBlock@ec2-107-22-199-66.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:37] <Draio> so ... it was a stupid question
[12:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> ^ connect via random freenode servers
[12:38] <Draio> of course ...
[12:38] * RaTTuS|BIG is not sure whihc one I'm on
[12:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> aha stockholme
[12:38] <Draio> as i said ... it was a stupid question ...
[12:39] <RaTTuS|BIG> there are no stupid questions =- only stupid answers [or something]
[12:39] <Draio> :-)
[12:40] * DexterLB (~angel@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:40] * joppuh123 (~joppuh123@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:40] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:41] <Draio> but, you know, the idea of ??????finding someone close with the same (rare) interest (and who talk the same language) is always a hope
[12:41] <RaTTuS|BIG> ;-p
[12:41] <Draio> However ... i should go ... i'm hungry
[12:41] <RaTTuS|BIG> I believe there is this thing called the real world ..... however YMMV
[12:41] * DexterLB (~angel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:42] <Draio> :-) ... yes ... there (in real world) it's hard to find something who are interested on things like raspberry :-) ... here it's easy! :-)
[12:43] <Draio> (someone)
[12:43] <joppuh123> I hope we can order it soon so excited :)
[12:43] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:43] <RaTTuS|BIG> yeah ,.,.,, same
[12:43] * CodeBlock (~CodeBlock@ec2-107-22-199-66.compute-1.amazonaws.com) Quit (Changing host)
[12:43] * CodeBlock (~CodeBlock@fedora/CodeBlock) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:44] <Draio> So Say We All
[12:44] <Draio> see you later ... bye
[12:44] <joppuh123> Any estimated time?
[12:44] <RaTTuS|BIG> no not yet
[12:46] * DexterLB (~angel@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:46] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:48] * aarch (~z@ip-115.viapori.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:48] <RaTTuS|BIG> I say 1week4days12hrs
[12:50] <Caver> *sets watch*
[12:50] <Caver> this is your launch countdown?
[12:53] * jzu__ (~jzu@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:55] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-158-33.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[12:56] * cybersuicide (~nnscript@dsl-243-94-218.telkomadsl.co.za) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:56] * jzu (~jzu@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:02] * cerberos (~cerberos@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:05] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Client Quit)
[13:06] * FFes (~Frank@office.admea.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] * hourd (~hourd@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] <hourd> afternoon all
[13:09] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:11] * DexterLB (~angel@77-85-30-156.btc-net.bg) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:11] * jzu__ is now known as jzu
[13:12] * sjs205 (~sjs205@host217-41-59-166.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:13] * socialdefect_ (~socialdef@5418BB7F.cm-5-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:15] <socialdefect_> Hi everyone... any forum admins here? I have some trouble signing-up and would really like to start contributing
[13:18] <haltdef> nope, unofficial channel
[13:18] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-ybvjeshkvklwkkmh) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:18] <socialdefect_> I just found the dev channel so might have more luck there, thanks
[13:21] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-mjxxoygzsldjnpmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:21] * sral (~sral@e181228055.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:24] * Enoria (~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:24] <chris_99> is it out yet
[13:24] * PiBot slaps chris_99 across the face with a cast iron pan.
[13:25] <ahven> /me slaps chris_99 with www.rasperrypi.org
[13:25] <chris_99> awh :'(
[13:25] <ahven> sigh, fail :P
[13:25] <Mavy> lol
[13:26] <chris_99> place your bets now, will it be out by the end of the week
[13:27] <socialdefect_> I bet 50 on 12:33 PM on Tuesday :p
[13:27] <Mavy> Doubt it. Ive not read about any new product being released as planned. Mostly due to issues encountered during production
[13:28] <chris_99> i bet 25 on Friday
[13:28] <Mavy> My guess is that itl be released early march
[13:28] <socialdefect_> March is also what I don't want to believe
[13:31] <socialdefect_> In the meantime I keep checking my RaspberryPI app every 15 mins ;) http://bit.ly/xxdPa5
[13:32] <Mavy> good way to waste bandwidth :/
[13:32] <Mavy> why not sign up for the mail list
[13:33] <socialdefect_> I did naturally but why not install another app if you can?
[13:33] <Mavy> because bandwidth for a website is not free
[13:33] <haltdef> yes, everything needs an app
[13:33] <haltdef> thanks for that stupid mentality, apple :P
[13:34] <socialdefect_> I just donated 200GB p/m so think they can spare me the 2k every hour ;)
[13:34] <Mavy> so if everyone would reload that page 1440 times a day can you imagine the amount of bw required?
[13:35] * joukio (~joukio@82-171-18-219.ip.telfort.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:35] <Ben64> 1440*2000*80000KB per day
[13:35] * joukio (~joukio@82-171-18-219.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:35] <Ben64> err... /1000
[13:36] <Ben64> 219GB per day
[13:37] * ice1712_ (~uae10@ip-89-102-105-205.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[13:37] <jzu> 47k for the home page
[13:37] <Mavy> jzu that app only monitors the store
[13:38] <Mavy> so thats 2k. But if you monitor the homepage its 50K yes :/
[13:38] <Mavy> people just assume its not that much. But they hardly ever think about the tottal picture
[13:39] <socialdefect_> nowadays you can have unlimited bandwidt for 10 dollar a month so it doesn't matter to most people
[13:39] <jzu> polling it every 15mn would total, hmmm... echo $((24*4*47236))
[13:39] <jzu> more than 5 Mo a day
[13:40] * user398 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[13:40] <Mavy> socialdefect_: thats the point. You have that bandwidth. But who is paying for the web servers?
[13:41] <socialdefect_> why make an app if you can't spare the bandwidt??
[13:41] <socialdefect_> for people will use it..
[13:41] <Draio> Hi... i question for you. What does PI means?
[13:41] <Mavy> Where does it say the app was made by the guys running the website?
[13:43] <Caver> Draio, it's short for Python
[13:43] <jzu> or about 3.1415926535
[13:43] <jzu> (sorry=
[13:43] <jzu> (sorry)
[13:43] <Draio> Caver: really?? and why???
[13:43] <Caver> it's one of the computer languages thats quite easy for teaching to kids
[13:44] <Caver> so part of it's educational remit
[13:44] <ahven> Mavy: current webpage refresh takes 173.78KB
[13:44] <ahven> so it a pretty huge difference on load :P
[13:44] * Tachyon` glares at jzu for his poor rounding
[13:44] <Mavy> ahven: even worse idd.
[13:44] <Draio> Caver: oh, ok ... i just found a explanation on wikipedia ... thanks
[13:45] <Caver> erm you have looked at the app's page and seen he's polling the rss feed url
[13:45] <ahven> one static query vs bunch of different db querys? :P
[13:45] <socialdefect_> I've uninstalled my app... don't wanna be the guy that steals all the bandwidt ;p
[13:45] <Mavy> but what i was going at is that people just asume that its ok to use these kind of apps. Without realising how much it could cost the hoster of a website
[13:45] <Caver> which is designed to be tiny and frequently refreshed
[13:46] <Mavy> Caver: But refreshing every 15 min is still ov erkill
[13:46] <Draio> from app page: Checking url is now : http://www.raspberrypi.com/rss.php?type=atom
[13:46] <Mavy> and have you done the math for 2k * 1440 * 10000
[13:46] <Mavy> ?
[13:46] <Mavy> thats 21GB a day. times 28 for a month
[13:47] <Draio> however ... always from the same page: "<50 downloads"
[13:47] <Caver> 2183 bytes
[13:47] <Caver> yeah on a site that shifts >3Gb a month anyway
[13:47] <socialdefect_> and don't forget caching
[13:47] <Caver> also true
[13:48] <Draio> so, there are less than 50 users that use that app ... it's not a reat problem. However i think you could disable the app untile the next week :)
[13:48] <rm> socialdefect_, haha that's great
[13:49] <rm> in fact I have made a similar app
[13:49] <socialdefect_> I''l just stay up all week keeping one eye on the mailinglist at all times so I'll be there before the shop goes down from the overload ;)
[13:49] <rm> but it just fetches http://www.raspberrypi.com/ and does html2text on it
[13:49] <rm> then looks at the result
[13:50] <ahven> now That is waste of resources
[13:50] <Mavy> socialdefect_: i use my mailserver to trigger an alert on my phone when a certain subject or sender is detected
[13:50] <Mavy> :)
[13:50] <Caver> I gather the plan, is they will send a email out 12 hours or so *before* you can buy
[13:50] <Mavy> that way i spend my own bandwidth :P
[13:50] <Draio> i used http://www.followthatpage.com/ for some days ... (one check per day) ... next I disabled it
[13:50] <Caver> so no one gets to complain they weren't given a fair chance ...
[13:51] <Mavy> Also dont forget to setup an account on the store
[13:51] <Mavy> so you can buy quickly
[13:52] <Caver> *hands out paper bags to help with the hyper-ventilation*
[13:52] <socialdefect_> and set-up a macro in your browser so you can buy faster than you type ;)
[13:53] <Caver> LOL
[13:54] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[13:54] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:55] <Draio> we could all camp in front of Raspberry headquarter and attack the courrier who brings the Raspberry from asia
[13:55] <Caver> ahah ... I think they'll have to use a security van
[13:57] <ukscone> they've hired off-duty SAS to guard the transport
[13:58] <Caver> do you think it will make the national news?
[13:58] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:58] <weuxel> SAS vs angry nerds... i bet on the nerds.
[13:58] <Draio> what?
[13:58] <ukscone> and the village eben & liz live in has instituted a border control system with unknowns shot on sight
[13:59] <Draio> .
[13:59] <ukscone> weuxel: you'vee just invented the new angry birds clone
[13:59] <Caver> Draio, SAS - like the USA Seals?
[14:00] <ukscone> nah sas make seals look like sissies
[14:00] <joppuh123> no because sopa will censor it
[14:00] <Caver> they do
[14:01] <Caver> censor what?
[14:02] <Caver> it's a british thing :)
[14:02] <ukscone> i knew/worked an ex-sas guy & an ex-seal once and the seal was nothing compared to the sas guy
[14:03] <Caver> *bites tongue*
[14:03] <ukscone> and i knew which one i prefereed "protecting" me
[14:03] <Caver> :)
[14:04] <Caver> me too
[14:04] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad16.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] <ukscone> yo ReggieUK
[14:06] * Draio_ (51ae1f5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[14:06] <ReggieUK> hey dude
[14:06] * Draio_ (51ae1f5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Client Quit)
[14:06] <ReggieUK> what's new in the land of states?
[14:06] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has left #raspberrypi
[14:06] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:06] * Draio_ITA (51ae1f5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[14:07] * Draio_ITA (51ae1f5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Client Quit)
[14:08] * aassddff (5f756fe0@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[14:08] <ukscone> ReggieUK: new york giants won the stupidbowl and it's a tad nippy
[14:08] * cerberos (~cerberos@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:08] * aassddff (5f756fe0@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Client Quit)
[14:08] <ReggieUK> I was aware of the stuporbowl results
[14:09] * IT_Sean pokes ukscone with a Giants flag
[14:09] <ReggieUK> I watched it on the BBC live
[14:09] <ukscone> IT_Sean: good game
[14:09] <ReggieUK> https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php?products_id=4824#ebericht
[14:10] * Draio is now known as Draio_ITA
[14:10] <ReggieUK> 200euros for an ali box, T-ring, peltier and a crappy pc fan
[14:10] <IT_Sean> it was
[14:10] <Crazytails> ali box?
[14:10] <ReggieUK> aluminium
[14:11] <Crazytails> What the hell does that thing do?
[14:11] <ahven> so that rhino was correct on his/her prediction?:P
[14:11] <IT_Sean> I thoght he meant a box of alli. :p
[14:11] <Draio_ITA> t-ring?
[14:12] <IT_Sean> O_o
[14:12] <Draio_ITA> wow
[14:12] <IT_Sean> did you break google, ReggieUK ?
[14:12] <ReggieUK> I think so it, ran out of stupifd
[14:13] <Caver> what are you guys on about?
[14:13] <IT_Sean> ReggieUK broke google
[14:13] <Caver> ah well .. it happens
[14:14] <Caver> just sweep up the bits and put them in the bin
[14:14] <ReggieUK> sorry, my bad, I thought it was broken due to peoples inability to find out what a t-ring is by themselves
[14:14] * Caver tells everyone to use bing
[14:14] <drazyl> whats google? :)
[14:14] <Caver> all I got was something in german
[14:15] <ReggieUK> *cough* translate *cough*
[14:15] <drazyl> try clicking the little flag-like thingy
[14:15] <ReggieUK> or even that
[14:15] <ReggieUK> or a little deduction
[14:15] <drazyl> 50% of your salary
[14:15] <ReggieUK> hmmmmn, there's a peltier cooler, with a a fan on teh back, with a box and the box contains a camera
[14:15] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc1-belf7-0-0-cust981.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:16] <IT_Sean> it sounds pronographical.
[14:16] <ReggieUK> I wonder if the box is to keep the camera really cool?
[14:16] <drazyl> No, the camera is there to take pictures of the inside of the box
[14:16] <Caver> ought too, I can't imagine it's a very large area it'll need to cool
[14:20] * jmontleon (jmontleon@nat/redhat/x-sgvkxumfgrymzsng) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:21] * cybersuicide (~nnscript@dsl-243-94-218.telkomadsl.co.za) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[14:22] * user398 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[14:23] * datagutt (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:23] * datagutt (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) Quit (Changing host)
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[14:24] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:26] * joppuh123 (~joppuh123@ Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[14:29] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[14:30] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-ovyzapecjcdgokix) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:34] <Mavy> The box will work. its like a fridge.
[14:35] <Mavy> Just need to cool it before you use it :P
[14:35] <Mavy> i just wonder how cool itll be.
[14:35] <Mavy> because if its to cool you will get moist production
[14:36] <Henchman21> thats what she said
[14:37] <ReggieUK> moisture is an obvious concern, but it's something that is mitigated for in preperation of the camera
[14:38] <ReggieUK> camera is pre-cooled in a fridge (in a bag, with silica gel to trap any stray moisture) as it takes a couple of hours or so to get it evenly cooled
[14:39] <IT_Sean> why are you cooling your camera?
[14:39] <ReggieUK> I'm not right now but the reason for doing it is to remove noise, which leads to cleaner data
[14:39] <ReggieUK> the cooler the sensor is, the better it performs
[14:40] <ReggieUK> when you're taking long exposures (>5minutes), noise is important
[14:41] <IT_Sean> ahh
[14:41] * sjs205 (~sjs205@host217-41-59-166.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:41] <ReggieUK> those cameras have probably had their IR filters removed and/or replaced too
[14:42] <ReggieUK> which makes them instantly 5x more sensitive to IR
[14:43] <ReggieUK> which is very useful as that's roughly where Hydrogen's spectral emission line sits
[14:53] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[14:54] * bfrost (~brian@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:54] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-mjxxoygzsldjnpmm) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:55] <IT_Sean> why are you photogrpahing hydrogen?
[14:55] <ReggieUK> probably :)
[14:55] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-vuhvqurxtjrskrfd) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:55] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[14:55] * PiBot slaps Thorn_ across the face with a cast iron pan.
[14:56] * user386 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[14:57] <ukscone> PiBot: i'm betting on a march 3rd release date at 2:15pm
[15:02] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@13-165-19.client.wireless.msu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Naah
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> March 14th at 1:59
[15:02] * user386 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:03] <IT_Sean> 24 February @ 4pm, GMT.
[15:03] <IT_Sean> trust me.
[15:05] * user832 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] * user861 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] <OneFix_Work> IT_Sean: I'm guessing that you are right (at least about the timing). I'm guessing that they will want a week or two to test the boards before they ship them...then a week prior to sales, they would begin drumming up interest for the big release...
[15:08] <SpeedEvil> Has there been a 'we got the first one from the factory, and it actually boots' ?
[15:08] * user977 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[15:08] <ukscone> SpeedEvil: nope, they are still in china being built
[15:09] <OneFix_Work> IT_Sean: But, I'm also guessing that we will really need to see the Gertboard before some really kewl development takes place
[15:09] * user832 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:10] <OneFix_Work> SpeedEvil: I would hope that the factory is at least testing random boards
[15:11] * mcp_ (~mcp@93-82-81-28.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[15:11] * user861 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> I suppose some basic tests would be easy
[15:13] <OneFix_Work> SpeedEvil: I would hope they could plug in a board to a monitor, plug in a USB drive, and then auto-boot a test image
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure how much extra that would cost.
[15:14] <OneFix_Work> SpeedEvil: Wouldn't even need a keyboard / mouse...
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> I guess it depends on the relationship with the fab
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> And I know, it's easy.
[15:15] <OneFix_Work> SpeedEvil: That's the beauty of having it in China...way less than a machine
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> The question is, does the fab have a fee for that that they won't waive even for simple voards.
[15:15] <IT_Sean> It is highly unlikely that the factory is booting boards.
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[15:15] <IT_Sean> The MOST testing that would happen at the factory is point to pint connectiivty checks.
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> Unless there is someone from r-pi doing it
[15:15] * user977 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> Or unless they're being paid extra
[15:16] <IT_Sean> the testing by the foundation would be happening once the boards are in the UK.
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> You don't tend to get stuff for free.
[15:16] <OneFix_Work> SpeedEvil: Yea, the connectivity tests should be enough
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure, I wouldn't say it's unluikely there is someone over there watching to debug on the spot
[15:16] <IT_Sean> I rather doubt it.
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> Possibly not.
[15:17] <OneFix_Work> SpeedEvil: Except, this is the first run...so I would assume that there would be a little more testing done at this point anyhow
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> But connectivity verification can't easily be done without JTAG - on the POP at least.
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Hmm
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Or I guess xray
[15:19] * user987 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[15:20] <OneFix_Work> The only thing I would assume is that the fabricator doesn't want to have to build another 10,000 boards for free because of a problem with components
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> That's not typically how it works.
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Unless there is a mistake in fabrication - it's your problem.
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> If the components are dead - your problem
[15:23] * Plam (~olivier@88-190-17-189.rev.dedibox.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:23] * prbz_ (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:24] <ctyler> Well, the jtag has to at least get connected up (for MAC setup) so there's likely some basic testing taking place.
[15:25] <OneFix_Work> SpeedEvil: Unless that part was a basic part, sourced from the fabricator
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> If the factory is setting up MAC at all
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> OneFix_Work: True, of course. But they test those.
[15:26] <ukscone> the mac is coming from an id in the gpu iirc so it is probably in the blob
[15:26] <ctyler> Eben said MAC is being burned by jtag with the gpu. Not sure who's doing that, I assumed the factory not the foundation.
[15:26] <feep> I read that as "the mac [computer] is coming from an id [freudian] in the gpu"
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> Sure - which is as likely to be done when it gets to the foundation
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> As you wouldn't typically trust the factory not to leak stuff
[15:26] * prbz (~prebz@c83-254-51-59.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[15:27] <OneFix_Work> Well, I'm sure they have a setup similar to the setup for the Roku 2...since both the rPi and the Roku 2 are very similar in design
[15:27] <ukscone> ctyler: ah ok -- i was just assuming that they'd said that especially as how it works on other arm devices i have
[15:27] <OneFix_Work> At the very least, they both use the same SOC
[15:29] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:30] * IT_Sean plugs in the loudest, most obnoxious modem he has, tapes it to the side of ukscone's head, and dials a fax machine in india
[15:31] <ukscone> i like modem sounds. i miss them now we all have cable modems
[15:31] <IT_Sean> this modem drives me bonkers.
[15:32] <ukscone> IT_Sean: how can it? you've been bonkers for years
[15:32] <IT_Sean> I've opened the case, taped all the vents shut, stuffed a wad of paper down the hole in he speaker and closes it back up again and it's still loud as ****.
[15:32] <IT_Sean> And no, the volume is NOT adjustable on it.
[15:32] <ctyler> IT_Sean: just cut the piezeo speaker trace
[15:33] <IT_Sean> ctyler: can't
[15:33] <IT_Sean> I do need to hear it dial.
[15:33] <ctyler> ah
[15:33] <ukscone> cut the speaker but put the wires on your tongue while it dials
[15:33] <IT_Sean> Listening to the modems training is how i diagnose 75% of the problems i have to deal with.
[15:34] <ctyler> 3.5mm jack to some old PC speakers you dig out of your junk cabinet so you have a volume control?
[15:34] <IT_Sean> THat's actually not a bad idea.
[15:34] <ctyler> what box are you dialing into that doesn't have IP connectivity these days?
[15:34] <IT_Sean> ctyler: i'm dialing into a box that ALSO has a modem in it, so when your IP network shits itself, you still have access.
[15:34] <IT_Sean> I work for a company that makes out of band management devices.
[15:35] <IT_Sean> We give you encrypted dial access to the console ports on your equipment, so that when your IP netowork messes itself, you can dial in and set it right.
[15:35] <SpeedEvil> I'm sure I remember having a modem with a hardware bolume control.
[15:35] <IT_Sean> SpeedEvil: THIS modem does not.
[15:36] <IT_Sean> It has two settings. Loud as ****, and off.
[15:36] <ctyler> IT_Sean: cool
[15:36] <Tachyon`> the us robotics sportster modems had real volume controls
[15:36] <Tachyon`> and looked like a stylophone
[15:37] <IT_Sean> This is a multitech. It has TWO modes of operation. ON, and OFF (OFF mode only when unplugged).
[15:38] <ctyler> if the volume control is binary, it's probably because it's got a a piezo instead of a proper speaker?
[15:38] <IT_Sean> AYe, it has
[15:38] <IT_Sean> it's a piezo
[15:39] <ctyler> my condolances
[15:39] <IT_Sean> I only use this modem when i absolutly have to.
[15:39] <IT_Sean> I have a quieter one velcro'd to the underside of my desk that i usually use.
[15:40] * IT_Sean has 14 modems in his office this morning. He only had 12 last friday. O_O
[15:41] <haltdef> they're breeding!
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> Modem+Modem = Modem.bis
[15:42] <IT_Sean> i think they are!
[15:42] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:44] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:45] <Draio_ITA> why you are talking about modem piezo speakers??? :)
[15:45] <IT_Sean> why not!?
[15:45] <Draio_ITA> You've convinced me
[15:46] <IT_Sean> ?
[15:46] <rm> http://twitter.com/#!/Raspberry_Pi/status/166512977271468032
[15:46] <rm> so, it's not shipped from the UK
[15:46] <IT_Sean> care to elaborate, for those of us that can't access twitter atm?
[15:47] <jzu> Q: Guys, if we purchase them online is there a way to pick it up if we are Cambridge based also?
[15:47] <Thorn_> it is being shipped from UK
[15:47] <Thorn_> Cam = Cambridge
[15:47] <jzu> A: Afraid not - we're not shipping from Cam, but using distributors instead.
[15:48] <Thorn_> oh right
[15:48] * Thorn_ learns to read
[15:48] <Thorn_> but they're still distributing from the UK afaik
[15:49] <Draio_ITA> this is to avoid that we camp in front of their headquarter
[15:49] <Draio_ITA> :-)
[15:50] <hamitron> is it out yet?
[15:50] * PiBot slaps hamitron across the face with a cast iron pan.
[15:50] <hamitron> ;/
[15:50] <ukscone> pity it's not worth camping out -- apparently they live next door to a pub with it's own brewery
[15:51] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:53] <gobby> Where are the Pi offices?
[15:53] <ukscone> cambridge
[15:54] <ukscone> currently eben and liz's front room but proper office im cambs soon or nowish i believe
[15:55] <gobby> Whois on the domain suggests Reach
[15:55] * user987 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:55] * user975 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[15:55] <gobby> I know that...
[15:55] <Davespice> hey guys
[15:56] <Davespice> I wonder if there is any more news about the launch party... *goes to check*
[15:59] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:59] * netf (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[16:01] * Mavy is now known as Mavy-bnc
[16:01] * user975 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:02] * IT_Sean pokes netf with a raspi board
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[16:04] * netf (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:04] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:06] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:07] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[16:09] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:11] <ukscone> ctyler: non-raspi related but do you know if there is an iMX.51 specific build of fedora arm?
[16:11] * sral (~sral@e181228055.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
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[16:13] * jh_ is now known as Guest11911
[16:15] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[16:17] * Guest11911 (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[16:17] * donkey (5b8fb3b5@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Client Quit)
[16:17] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[16:19] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad16.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[16:20] <ctyler> ukscone: the armv7hl build works fine. An iMX rpm-based kernel target exists, not sure of its state. dgilmore in #fedora-arm would probably have a better word.
[16:21] * Draio_ITA (51ae1f5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[16:21] <ukscone> ctyler: thnx
[16:22] <ctyler> ukscone: I get the iMX's mixed up, what's your target?
[16:22] <ukscone> looking on putting fedora on my ecafe. last time i tried i lost graphics, sound and wifi but i didn't try too hard. going to try harder this time
[16:22] <ukscone> and ecafe slim hd so iMX.51
[16:23] <ctyler> I think we're testing the rpm'd Freescale kernel on our Smarttops (iMX.515) and it works OK
[16:24] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad24.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:25] <ukscone> ok they do have a "weird" way of setting up a bootable sdcard but i'll take a look
[16:26] <ukscone> weird == unallocated 4MB at the start of the sd card then an ext2/3/4 partition for the rootfs
[16:27] <ukscone> in the unallocated 4MB it contains the bootloader (sometimes) & kernel
[16:31] <ReggieUK> leapfrog explorer pad does that
[16:31] <ReggieUK> writes the files raw to the unpartitioned space
[16:31] * cerberos (~cerberos@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:31] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[16:32] <ukscone> ReggieUK: didn't know that
[16:32] <ukscone> you live and learn
[16:34] * octeris (~eric.dost@dhcp-196.matrix.msu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:37] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc1-belf7-0-0-cust981.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:41] * fkj (c124221e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:41] <IT_Sean> Dammit... having a static shock issue this morning :/
[16:42] <ReggieUK> indeed, it's a neat little trick to know about
[16:42] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[17:01] * diplo (~diplo@cpc1-trow1-0-0-cust13.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:03] * M0GHY (~peterholl@ Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:05] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:05] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-133-175-40.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:06] <mkopack> Hey gang!
[17:06] <mkopack> So I guess this is where we're all hanging out waiting on release announcement every day? LOL
[17:06] <Davespice> hi there
[17:06] <TSL> LOL
[17:07] <Davespice> best option for that is the mailing list, it will be announced there before in here
[17:07] <mkopack> Oh, I know??? I was just kidding :)
[17:07] <TSL> Anyway, it's good to check both... just in case ;)
[17:08] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:08] <WASDx> where do i actually sign up for the mailing list? I've heard about it may times but never found out where to sign up
[17:08] <mkopack> I just hope they've gotten the prod run units back and are testing them right now and they're checking out ok. Would hate to see them have to send them back due to a manufacturing problem and we have to wait another month. But would certainly prefer a correct board a month from now than a buggy one now.
[17:08] <rm> unlikely
[17:08] <octeris> WASDx: http://www.raspberrypi.org/
[17:08] <octeris> WASDx: On the right side.
[17:08] <WASDx> Yes I've looked there octeris
[17:08] <rm> I suppose there still will be a couple of blog posts:
[17:09] <rm> 1) shipped from china
[17:09] <WASDx> must be one of my filtering addons
[17:09] <rm> 2) got them here, testing
[17:09] <WASDx> got it
[17:09] <tbar> Imagine how many just pulls the shop-website from a script and sends a mail/sms to themselves
[17:09] * FFes (~Frank@office.admea.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:09] <tbar> Beats waiting for the mailing-list-mail...
[17:10] <octeris> tbar: Unless the mailing list announces it briefly before the store opens up.
[17:10] <octeris> tbar: "Launching today at x time"
[17:10] <WASDx> Thanks octeris, got the confirmation mail now
[17:11] <mkopack> They said they're going to post to the mailing list several days before the units go on sale so we have a chance to get prepped.
[17:11] <WASDx> The website will be so overloaded
[17:11] <mkopack> Oh yeah. you know it
[17:11] <octeris> Hopefully that doesn't make it impossible to place an order..
[17:11] <mkopack> It won't kill me if I don't get in on the first prod run...
[17:12] <tbar> octeris: Crap. Didn't think of that...
[17:14] <mkopack> I just hope they don't open it up at 3am Eastern daylight time (8am GMT)??? would hate to have to get up at 2:45am credit card in hand...
[17:14] * gabriel9 (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:21] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:23] * tbar (5da3e052@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
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[17:31] * jonmasters (~jcm@edison.jonmasters.org) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[17:33] * DexterLB (~angel@77-85-30-156.btc-net.bg) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:33] <RaTTuS|BIG> 10AM UCT weekday
[17:34] <IT_Sean> you have to specify a day. No wildcards.
[17:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> 10AM UTC Feb 10 2012
[17:37] <IT_Sean> that's this friday
[17:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> hears hoping
[17:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> heres*
[17:38] * IT_Sean slaps a "Warning: Optimist" sticky label to RaTTuS|BIG's forehead
[17:38] <mkopack> Nothing wrong with hoping!
[17:38] <mkopack> Of course, knowing my luck, the plane with the shipment will go down somewhere....
[17:38] * jonmasters (~jcm@edison.jonmasters.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] <drazyl> 2012-04-01 - 09:00 GMT
[17:40] <drazyl> at which point they declare "april fool"
[17:40] <IT_Sean>
[17:40] <george___> little early for "april fool's"
[17:41] * DexterLB (~angel@77-85-12-207.btc-net.bg) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:42] * Datum_Errata (~ivarr@mail.cstcm.edu) Quit ()
[17:42] <george___> is a usb flash drive based swap partition going to be almost manditory for something like android?
[17:42] <mkopack> george: From what they
[17:42] <mkopack> '
[17:43] <haltdef> I don't think so, older android phones had 256MB ram
[17:43] <mkopack> 've said, given the limited memory availability on the model B, yeah, you'll be swapping a lot to run Android
[17:43] <haltdef> can't see ICS running happily though
[17:43] <george___> yep, my old g1 had a tiny bit of memory, but then again, we all ran swap eventually for any android build > 1.6
[17:43] <mkopack> I REALLY hope in the future they offer a model C or D with more RAM...
[17:44] <george___> idk, i think if the flash based swap file is on one of the really fast flash drives it might be just fine
[17:44] <haltdef> if they start building 50k+ regularly it might become more cost effective to use more ram, higher end SoC
[17:45] <mkopack> I guess that will all depend on the financials??? They REALLY want to keep the price down to get it out to as many folks as possible.
[17:45] <haltdef> even if not, the 256MB chips might stop being available and 512MB or so can be had for the same price
[17:46] <mkopack> Yeah, that would be the ideal situation??? But from what Liz posted, the spec for that form factor tops out at 1GB, and those chips are insanely expensive, so I don't think we're going to see even 512MB for a while without the price for the unit pushing up a good bit.
[17:46] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[17:46] <haltdef> tbh, the specs we have now are incredible for the price
[17:47] <Henchman21> http://bakegeek.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/mcp.jpg
[17:47] <mkopack> (of course, I remember spending several hundred $$$ on individual RAM chips to put 4MB of RAM on my Amiga 500 Blizzard Board...)
[17:47] <haltdef> outperforms most of my past smartphones
[17:47] <george___> http://hothardware.com/News/Corsair-Spices-Up-USB-20-With-HighSpeed-Flash-Voyager-GTR-Thumb-Drive/ it's 34MB/s, usb 2.0
[17:47] <Henchman21> yikes
[17:47] <mkopack> yeah??? I can't wait to use this in some robotics applications. WAY more power there than most uC's provide. Especially RAM.
[17:48] <george___> my first project is an in-dash car-puter
[17:49] <george___> i've already bought most of the hardware, just waiting on the RP
[17:49] <octeris> george___: Dedicated *nix box with NAS.
[17:50] <george___> yep, i'd love a low power file server as well, there's just too many projects possible
[17:50] <george___> i'd end up buying like 20 RPs
[17:50] <haltdef> I'm just after a low power bnc server for now
[17:50] * saua (~saua@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:51] <Henchman21> a found a nice hdmi cable+4GB-sdcard for 17$
[17:51] <gobby> george___: What are you using for the display?
[17:51] <haltdef> I can see myself buying another from another batch for experimenting though
[17:51] * saua (~saua@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:51] <rm> to me the whole point of bnc is that it stays up while my home connection is down
[17:51] <rm> so I get to read the backlog :) oh, and also multi-connection into one nickname
[17:52] <george___> @gobby I already have a 7" pioneer double din touchscreen deck, i'm going to cannabalize it
[17:52] <rm> for that reason I think a BNC on a VPS is better than at home
[17:53] <george___> I just need to attach a 7" touch screen on top of it to interface with the RP, shouldn't be too tough
[17:53] <haltdef> I don't care about maintaining my connection to irc when my home connection is down, my internet is down so I can't get to irc anyway :P
[17:53] <haltdef> laptop is my main machine so don't want to have to disconnect, also i can easily attach from my desktop or mobile
[17:53] <george___> I doubt I can utilize the built in touchscreen of the deck itself, not without a level of knowledge past what I currently have
[17:54] <george___> anyway, the pioneer deck has an rca stereo and video in on the back, so i'm almost set
[17:56] * QuantumBeep (~QB@d3-4-1-0.r00.dllstx04.us.ce.gin.ntt.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:00] * pizza-dude (~fake@dhcp-077-249-161-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:00] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[18:00] <george___> is there any difference between pal / ntsc in terms of the RPs hdmi out? is it a factor?
[18:00] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-133-175-40.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[18:01] <slaeshjag> Isn't HDMI... HDMI?
[18:01] <slaeshjag> And PAL/NTSC only applies for analogue signals
[18:01] <george___> @slaeshjag that's what I'm asking
[18:01] <george___> digital is digital then
[18:02] <slaeshjag> I'm pretty sure PAL/NTSC is different methods to encode video in a RF signal
[18:02] <george___> nice, thank you very much
[18:03] <chris_99> does hdmi have the ability to transmit greater than 1080p/i i guess it does?
[18:04] <slaeshjag> HDMI is compatible with DVI, so I'd guess so. But that would require a dual-link video signal. I'm not sure what HDMI version implements that
[18:04] <george___> i'm pretty sure it does, I'm using hdmi 1.3 currently to output 1920x1200 right now
[18:04] <chris_99> ah, sweet
[18:05] <george___> er, 1.3a
[18:05] <chris_99> i think it has a 10Gbps bandwidth so it should be able to handle a load
[18:05] <CuriosTiger> PAL and NTSC are not only analog, they're also SD. High def video has nothing to do with either.
[18:06] <mjr> oh yeah, actually I did wonder about that. Can the _pi_ output 1920x1200 or is it limited to 1920x1080?
[18:06] <mjr> (hdmi can hack 1920x1200, that's doable with the original single link dvi too)
[18:06] <chris_99> i think its 1080 i'm not certain though
[18:06] <slaeshjag> CuriosTiger: On a digital SD signal, PAL/NTSC only gives you a resolution/framerate, nothing about how the video is enoded
[18:07] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:07] <mjr> also, slaeshjag, hdmi doesn't do multilink stuff, but newer revisions (don't recall which) have a higher maximum clock rate for additional capacity
[18:07] <slaeshjag> mjr: ah
[18:08] <george___> laptop panel / screen --> standalone monitor: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/njytouch/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686
[18:08] <CuriosTiger> slaeshjag: Sure, but on a digital HD signal, PAL/NTSC give you "no worky"
[18:14] * cerberos (~cerberos@ Quit (Quit: cerberos)
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[18:18] * socialdefect_ (~socialdef@5418BB7F.cm-5-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[18:27] * george___ (ada79aac@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:31] <zgreg> single-link HDMI as found in the rpi can go up to 1920x1200
[18:31] <chris_99> ooh nice
[18:31] <zgreg> maybe more if you lower the refres
[18:31] <zgreg> *refresh rate
[18:31] <zgreg> but the spec says 1920x1200 at 60hz
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[18:35] <george___> so is the limit one per person, one per sipping address, one per person per shipping address?
[18:37] <traeak> !w
[18:37] <PiBot> traeak: in Parker, CO on Mon Feb 6 11:53:00 2012. Temp -3??C. Condition: Overcast, Humidity: 61%, Later 1??C - -11??C. Condition: Chance of Snow.
[18:38] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:43] <zgreg> that's quite cozy, it's -13??C here and likely to cool down in the night
[18:44] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:47] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:49] * jzu__ (~jzu@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:49] * DexterLB (~angel@77-85-12-207.btc-net.bg) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:50] <george___> it has to be around 12.7 deg C here in chicago
[18:51] * roman3x_ (~roman3x@bband-dyn18.95-103-42.t-com.sk) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:53] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-135-230.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:56] * EastLight (t@5ac4afeb.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:57] * MuNk (~MuNk@2001:470:1f09:1ec1:210:75ff:fe1a:bdb0) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:57] <DaQatz> !w
[18:57] <PiBot> DaQatz: in Berwick, ME on Mon Feb 6 21:51:00 2012. Temp 44??F. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 43%, Later 44??F - 23??F. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[18:57] * acp (~andrew@figment.andrewpoole.org.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:57] <traeak> uhoh not DaQatz
[18:57] <DaQatz> It's nice here too atm
[18:58] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:58] <traeak> btw i despise app[liactions that won't allow you to control-z thme from the terminal
[19:00] <acp> Anyone else got an email from a guy at IDG asking about your thoughts on the Raspbery Pi, or is that just me? :|
[19:00] <traeak> who's idg ?
[19:00] <acp> Media company behind PC World, Computerworld, Network World news sites, apparently
[19:00] <traeak> hmm
[19:01] <traeak> somehow they mined your email
[19:01] <traeak> from forums or ?
[19:01] <acp> He says from twitter: http://acp.im/wtf-pi.txt
[19:01] <acp> Appears legit, doesn't appear automated spammery, since it'll have had to fill in the captcha on my website form to send that
[19:01] <traeak> ahh
[19:01] <traeak> don't go to twitter, problem solved
[19:01] * acp grins
[19:02] * DexterLB (~angel@79-100-31-57.btc-net.bg) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:02] * acp ponders whether to reply for a laugh, or ignore it
[19:03] <traeak> about twitter?
[19:03] <traeak> heh
[19:03] * socialdefect_ (~socialdef@codejuggler01.tilaa.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:04] * socialdefect_ (~socialdef@5418BB7F.cm-5-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:04] <traeak> i'm probably not the only one here who avoids anything having to do with twitter at all costs
[19:04] <acp> Probably wise :D
[19:04] <traeak> and i use facebook as a place to store family pictures, that's about it
[19:04] * acp uses facebook as something to laugh at when he's bored
[19:04] * filth (~ha@cable-prv-fe63dd00-111.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:04] * jzu__ (~jzu@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:04] <traeak> i used to use google to upload stuff
[19:05] <traeak> i think they killt google videos or something
[19:05] <haltdef> twitter's kinda useful
[19:05] <traeak> and i don't like youtube much
[19:05] <traeak> for what? (convince me)
[19:05] <filth> Holy crap, there's a lot of people in here
[19:05] * filth wonders how many are RISC OS hopefuls
[19:05] <haltdef> I just stalk girls aloud
[19:05] <haltdef> follow*
[19:05] * acp laughs at filth
[19:05] <traeak> never looked at riscos how much in common with unix?
[19:05] <acp> traeak: RO has nothing in common with unix, really :P
[19:05] <filth> traeak: none whatsoever
[19:06] * DexterLB (~angel@79-100-31-57.btc-net.bg) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:07] * ian__ (~ian@client-80-3-135-230.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:07] * [qUE] (~que@cpc1-hawk1-0-0-cust825.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:08] <filth> So... does anybody in here actually *have* a Rpi?
[19:08] * ian__ (~ian@client-80-3-135-230.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:09] <traeak> filth: you don't have yours yet ?
[19:09] <haltdef> a couple have beta boards I believe
[19:09] <traeak> no posix, etc
[19:09] <[qUE]> can anyone blow a raspberry whilst calculating Pi?
[19:09] <filth> traeak: I'm just wondering if it's really more worthwhile than a Beagleboard or an Arduino
[19:10] <traeak> filth: right now since you can't get one it's not worth more
[19:10] <[qUE]> Arduino doesn't have video out
[19:10] <[qUE]> afaik
[19:10] <traeak> filth: it's almost an order of magnitude cheaper than beagleboard
[19:10] <traeak> and an order of magnitude faster than arduino
[19:10] <filth> And also unavailable :D
[19:11] * socialdefect_ (~socialdef@5418BB7F.cm-5-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:11] * socialdefect_ (~socialdef@codejuggler01.tilaa.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:12] <[qUE]> all put your hands up if you're not an IRCbot
[19:12] * [qUE] doesn't see any hands
[19:15] * DexterLB (~angel@79-100-9-196.btc-net.bg) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:18] <george___> arduino video out: http://arduino.cc/playground/Main/InterfacingWithHardware#Video
[19:18] <[qUE]> yeah, it's a shield
[19:18] <filth> 99% of Arduino functionality is :-D
[19:18] <[qUE]> noit standard afaik
[19:19] <filth> [qUE]: no, not standard, and that's kinda the point afaik
[19:19] <[qUE]> beagle and r-pi both video out as standard
[19:19] <[qUE]> even if it does require a fancy screen
[19:20] <merlin1991> [qUE]: not a bot ;)
[19:20] <[qUE]> :)
[19:21] <george___> it would have been nice if RP was a good bit more modular, but at the $25/$35 price point i'm sure it was impossible
[19:21] <mjr> pretty much certainly so
[19:22] <[qUE]> well, you've got usb
[19:22] <[qUE]> [audience canned laughter]
[19:24] <[qUE]> you also should have IO connections to the ARM, that'll allow for extending the functionality of the unit
[19:24] <[qUE]> but afaik they've skimped on protection circuitry
[19:24] <kism3t> [filth]: I think it all depends on what you want to do with it, It looks as if the raspi is certainly at the moment focusing on the XBMC media center side, and the arduino the controlling hardware side, I personally ruled out the beagleboard down to cost
[19:24] <[qUE]> then again that's just a diode and resistor
[19:25] <[qUE]> had XBMC actually been ported to ARM?
[19:25] <[qUE]> * has
[19:26] <[qUE]> ah, looks like WIP
[19:26] * [qUE] uses XBMC on Xbox calssic
[19:26] <kism3t> they have demo's of XBMC running on a raspberry pi
[19:28] <[qUE]> tbh, it is one of the better things they could get running on it
[19:28] <[qUE]> XBMC is great
[19:29] <[qUE]> although a dvd drive is probably a necessity
[19:29] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:30] * [qUE] goes for food
[19:30] <[qUE]> l8r
[19:30] * [qUE] (~que@cpc1-hawk1-0-0-cust825.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has left #raspberrypi
[19:40] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) Quit ()
[19:42] <Henchman21> nah optical media sucks
[19:42] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-135-230.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:43] <Henchman21> but you could share a dvd drive through a network
[19:43] <Henchman21> or use a usb drive
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[20:08] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[20:11] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-133-175-40.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:12] * Jaseman (5f93f112@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] <Jaseman> Hello
[20:13] <tntexplosivesltd> hey man
[20:13] <Jaseman> how are you all doing?
[20:13] <Jaseman> getting sick of waiting I bet
[20:13] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:15] <tntexplosivesltd> meh
[20:15] <Jaseman> i wonder if the sales figures will be published
[20:15] <tntexplosivesltd> I would assume so
[20:15] <Jaseman> would be interesting to know how many they can sell
[20:16] <traeak> a ton
[20:16] <Jaseman> After 100k it might start to dwindle
[20:16] <traeak> the pricing is commodity
[20:16] <Jaseman> there's a select audience for this product
[20:17] <traeak> Jaseman: it's likely most orders will be for other products, that owuld push it over 100k
[20:17] <traeak> i mean the rpi as the engine for other commercial endeavors
[20:17] <Jaseman> you cant include stickers in the figures :-P
[20:17] * cyberdo (cyberdo@montezuma.acc.umu.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:17] <traeak> i'm mad they didn't just produce the gumstick version 9 months ago
[20:17] <traeak> so what if it didn't have all the gpio connectors, composite out, etc ?
[20:18] <traeak> at least there'd be a software base out on the application side
[20:18] <Jaseman> i think there were some other issues
[20:18] <Jaseman> not much use in having a software base if you cant get the hardware
[20:19] <mkopack> eh, I think they're going to sell well over 100K of these things???
[20:19] <mkopack> Especially if they are able to get traction in the schools and such???
[20:19] <traeak> Jaseman: if they would have manuf the gumstick then there would be a software base
[20:19] <traeak> yeah, i haven't looked into what the gumstick problems were
[20:19] <Jaseman> i think it was something to do with the parts
[20:19] <Jaseman> availibility or something
[20:19] <mkopack> If districts start mandating that kids taking a computer class must have one of these (or provide it to them) that's going to rack up some sales fast. And I imagine in the developing world the low price point makes them quite attractive.
[20:20] <Jaseman> schools dont move that fast
[20:20] <Jaseman> at least not in the UK
[20:20] <mkopack> sure, but that doesn't mean that it won't happen over time
[20:20] <Jaseman> they might make it onto the syllabus one day
[20:20] <mkopack> Heck, I'd be willing to spend $500 to buy a number of them to outfit a small computer lab at the local high school.
[20:21] <traeak> no, it would take a few years
[20:21] <Jaseman> i think more adults will have them than children
[20:21] <traeak> the most advanced schools might try a pilot for the fall
[20:21] <traeak> if production levels are there
[20:21] <traeak> i would see universities being maybe more progressive
[20:21] <Jaseman> its not just about the cost
[20:21] <mkopack> And I think if these prove to be decently powerful ,that the robotics community might snatch up a lot of them (like they have with the Kinect) - low power, high processing capability (performance/watt is VERY important in robotics)
[20:22] <Jaseman> there would need to be a debate as to whether they should have them at all
[20:22] <traeak> yup, that would start with the universities
[20:22] <mkopack> I know that there are several of us in the Altanta Hobby Robotics club chomping at the bit to get our hands on one
[20:22] <traeak> i think someone will need to write some sort of text book around the rpi
[20:22] <Jaseman> only after some high-level apporvals will it happen
[20:22] <traeak> to really hit the universities
[20:22] <Jaseman> i think many people will write books on it
[20:23] <traeak> but for phd use? target the rpi as the base for performance testing algorithms, etc
[20:23] * socialdefect__ (~socialdef@codejuggler01.tilaa.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:23] <traeak> ideally that would be a great use for benchmarking on a commodity platform
[20:23] * socialdefect__ (~socialdef@codejuggler01.tilaa.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:23] <Jaseman> im going to start a contest....
[20:23] <mkopack> traeak: There's something like that that was done with the parallax Scribbler Robot and the IPRE add-on-board??? a number of US universities are using that combo, with a book somebody wrote to use for teaching intro to programming (in Python) where the students write programs for the Robot
[20:23] <mkopack> $70 robot, $50 add on board.
[20:23] <Jaseman> who can write the most entertaining python code
[20:23] <traeak> the worst thing about the rpi is poor IO
[20:23] <Jaseman> has to be under 1000 lines of code
[20:24] <traeak> too bad, no sata controller native on this SOC
[20:24] <mjr> but it has _universal_ serial bus ;P
[20:24] <traeak> mkopack: yup, so there's your rpi market, hopefully some of that already in place by next fall/spring semesters
[20:24] <mkopack> Yeah, I think that's quite possible
[20:25] <mkopack> We're all just going nuts right now because we're having to wait to buy it??? Once they start rolling out and get in people's hands, it'll be a lot easier and less stressful
[20:26] <traeak> yeah
[20:26] <traeak> figuring out how to deploy them will be interesting
[20:26] <mkopack> And seeing all these video demos of different software doing things is just adding to the hype and frustration of non-availability
[20:26] <traeak> i still think people will be disappointed in them as general purpose computers
[20:26] <mkopack> My only big concern is the crappy mechanical durability of the Micro USB port??? Wouldn't be my first choice TBH.
[20:27] <traeak> you can get extra durable microusb connectors
[20:27] <traeak> i dunno what the cost would have been for those, though
[20:27] <mkopack> traeak: probably so??? at least those of us who are used to having higher end machines??? But there's something I miss about those old simpler 8 bit machines with their instant on, foolproof designs
[20:27] <traeak> again we're back to this really wierd dichotomy
[20:27] <traeak> where some peopel want the rpi for hardware control, others want it purely for software
[20:28] <Jaseman> who cares what they want it for
[20:28] <mkopack> Yeah, And remember that this is also a gen 1 product??? I'm sure it's going to evolve in later revisions - as component prices change we might get faster processors, more RAM, better IO, etc.
[20:28] <mjr> aren't microusbs more durable than minis at least though
[20:29] <Jaseman> thats not how 'they' were talking about it
[20:29] <mkopack> I'm betting this is as much as learning experience for the Foundation as it will be for the students - as the foundation sees what the people use them for, they will make new designs better suited
[20:29] <traeak> mjr: apparently so, the tension spring for micro is on the cable, with mini it's the connector
[20:29] <Jaseman> from what i heard there are no plans for it to evolve on the hardware side
[20:29] <traeak> the big kicker here
[20:29] <traeak> when companies see the demand explode for this
[20:30] <traeak> there will definitely be rpi clones coming out
[20:30] <mkopack> traeak: yeah, I'm sure???
[20:30] <Jaseman> and those clones might be better
[20:30] * octeris (~remd@user-9654ea.user.msu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:30] <Jaseman> all they need do is stick a vga connector on it
[20:30] <mkopack> Why? VGA is going the way of the do-do.
[20:31] <Jaseman> theres still alot of vga monitors out there
[20:31] <Jaseman> a LOT
[20:31] <mkopack> And be prepared for headaches using this thing on a Composite connection!
[20:31] <Jaseman> i cant imagine the picture will be very good through that
[20:32] <mkopack> Sure, but it's a standard that's going away. HDMI is the current standard??? I think they were looking at it more as something that kids could plug into their TV to use??? Not needing to get a dedicated monitor. And pretty much every TV built in the last 30 years has either Composite or HDMI
[20:32] <Jaseman> i supose you can put a scart on the other end
[20:33] <Jaseman> hdmi hasnt been around for 30 years
[20:33] <mkopack> yeah, I have one of the new Ford Explorer's with the Touch video screen in the center console and Composite video in???. I tried hooking my PS2 up to it in the car and it was HORRIBLE to view??? I've always used at least S-Video
[20:33] <george___> hdmi --> vga @ $3 : http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Black-Video-Support-Necessary/dp/B002TUC64W
[20:33] <Jaseman> came out in 2002
[20:34] <haltdef> hdmi cannot be passively converted to vga
[20:34] <mkopack> Jase: Hence the "Either HDMI OR Composite"
[20:34] <george___> retracted... that was vga to hdmi
[20:34] <Jaseman> well i probably wont mind when im watching porn on my xmbc
[20:35] <Jaseman> i have hdmi anyway so what am i talknig about
[20:36] <Jaseman> and you can use DVI so...
[20:36] <Jaseman> newer monitors will be okay
[20:36] <Jaseman> vga will dissapear over time
[20:36] <traeak> Jaseman: the rpi may be imbalanced....fast (but closed) GPU, really crappy CPU. Going with an armv7 with a mali would be better balanced
[20:36] <traeak> for software use
[20:37] <traeak> hardware control that stuff is probably fairly irrelevant...unless the gpu is leveraged somehow
[20:37] <Jaseman> and it has NO fans
[20:37] <Jaseman> that is awesome in itself
[20:37] <traeak> which the closed GPU on the rpi SOC removes GPGPU image processing ability for robotics
[20:37] <Jaseman> i HATE cooling fans
[20:38] <Jaseman> i was running up some old servers today
[20:38] <Jaseman> one of them blew up
[20:38] <traeak> yes fans are good for breaking
[20:38] <Jaseman> and others were unbelivably noisey
[20:38] <mkopack> traeak: yeah, I'm NOT thrilled about that. If they would have at least given us an Open CL interface then I would have been happy. If most of the power of this thing is locked in the GPU, we need to be able to make use of it!
[20:38] <traeak> vid card fans, southbridge fans
[20:38] <traeak> they just break
[20:39] <mkopack> Of course, on the flip side, given the power budget of the laptop that I'm currently using to run my telepresence robot, I could probably power 10 RPi's and thus outperform the laptop, even with the weak CPU.
[20:39] <george___> would the RP be fine to power a thin client?
[20:40] <Jaseman> not to power one
[20:40] <mkopack> Sure, since all the computation is done on the server.. The thin client really just renders the UI and talks over the network
[20:40] <Jaseman> but perhaps to be one
[20:40] <mkopack> Oh, sorry. yeah, it could BE one, I wouldn't use an RPi to HOST one
[20:40] <mkopack> i.e.; be the server
[20:40] <george___> waka waka, yea to be one
[20:41] <mkopack> I might have to resort to some sort of Beowulf clustering of multiple Mod-B's to get decent performance out of the setup though.
[20:41] <Jaseman> i was using vnc the ther day - its too slow
[20:41] * Mowi (~Mowi@ Quit (*.net *.split)
[20:41] * PiKeY (PiKeI@aero.feasa.com.br) Quit (*.net *.split)
[20:41] * GadgetUK (~swp@host-13-150.it.le.ac.uk) Quit (*.net *.split)
[20:41] <mkopack> Jase: all depends on your network link and screen size/res
[20:41] * GadgetUK (~swp@host-13-150.it.le.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:42] <mkopack> I remove desktop on my Macbook back to my Home Mac Mini HTPC setup all the time to set up video edits. As long as my 4G network link is strong and stable, it works perfectly fine
[20:42] <traeak> mkopack: rpi has bad io throughput, that really hurts it's use in a cluster
[20:42] <george___> yep, on a closed lan, wired, 480p, 16bbp, it should be great
[20:43] <mkopack> traeak: I'll just have to wait and see how it is...
[20:43] * diplo (~diplo@5ad6e9e7.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:43] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:43] <mkopack> I DO think the whole "just pull the plug to power down" is going to end up being more hassle than they're making it out to be in terms of corrupted SD cards (or rather the filesystems on them)
[20:44] <Jaseman> you know what i want more than a raspberry pi?
[20:44] <george___> its fine as long as its a journaling filesystem.. at least that seems to be the concensus
[20:44] <Jaseman> a new PC with core i7 or Xeon processor
[20:44] <traeak> journaling isn't great on flash
[20:44] <Jaseman> im sick of using pentium 4
[20:44] <traeak> Jaseman: sandy bridge kills xeon today
[20:44] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] * haltdef has sandy bridge laptop, nehalem desktop, core 2 duo server
[20:45] * traeak built a 3930k in december, it easily thrashed the dual nehalem xeon we use for development
[20:46] <haltdef> ivy bridge will by my next build
[20:46] <haltdef> unless AMD stop sucking (ha)
[20:46] <mkopack> Jase: HAHA, I'm sorry....
[20:46] <george___> i wonder if it will be able to stream onlive/Gaikai
[20:47] <Jaseman> we have some dell precision's at work
[20:47] <mkopack> the SLOWEST machine I have is my Core 2 Duo Macbook from 2007??? everything else I have or use is at least circa 2009 high end or newer
[20:47] <haltdef> onlive linux ARM client should work fine
[20:47] <Jaseman> with xeon processors
[20:47] <Jaseman> 12gb ram
[20:47] <Jaseman> they run very nicely
[20:47] <feep> Jaseman: talk about geek porn.
[20:47] <george___> @haltdef thank you
[20:48] <haltdef> is there an ARM client or is it open source? I prefer to do the graphics processing locally :P
[20:48] <Jaseman> well i got my pc for free
[20:48] <feep> you know what I want more than a raspberry pi
[20:48] <feep> a massively multicore render farm :3
[20:48] * PiKeY (PiKeI@aero.feasa.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:48] <Jaseman> its an optiplex gx280 pentium 4
[20:48] <Jaseman> 3GHz
[20:48] <feep> ahh .. remember when pentium stood for quality
[20:48] * feep doesn't really :D
[20:48] <Jaseman> and 3GB RAM
[20:49] <Jaseman> it runs... okay
[20:49] <traeak> i hate farms because the next gen release turns this gen computer into junk
[20:49] <Jaseman> but at work I have a Core 2 Duo which is much better
[20:49] <traeak> core i7 was a huge jump over core2, sandy bridge another big jump
[20:49] <feep> self-upgrading nanotech-based renderfarm
[20:49] <Jaseman> and a huge cost too
[20:50] <george___> hp Z200 Xeon here at work
[20:50] <haltdef> didn't think sandy bridge was a huge jump from nehalem
[20:50] <Jaseman> core i5 would be fine
[20:50] <Jaseman> but something better than what i have
[20:51] <Jaseman> im stuck on 32-bit windows
[20:51] <Jaseman> cant do 64-bit on this old slugger
[20:51] * gomiboy (~frodone@ppp-192-16.21-151.libero.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] <haltdef> are you sure? some p4s are 64bit
[20:51] <haltdef> iirc
[20:51] <Jaseman> yep certain
[20:52] <traeak> haltdef: we do heavy floating point, in that it's a big jump
[20:52] <haltdef> ah
[20:52] <haltdef> most cpu intensive thing I do is x264 encoding
[20:52] <Jaseman> We use Autodesk Revit Structure at work
[20:52] <traeak> well that's lame :-p
[20:52] <haltdef> :(
[20:52] <traeak> no bentley, eh?
[20:52] <Jaseman> that needs a lot of power
[20:52] <Jaseman> we've got MX
[20:52] <Jaseman> MX road
[20:52] <Jaseman> but Revit is better
[20:53] * kcj (~casey@118-93-32-103.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:53] * kcj (~casey@118-93-32-103.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Changing host)
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[20:53] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:53] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:53] <Jaseman> i dont like bentley as a company
[20:53] <Jaseman> too much burocracy
[20:54] <george___> ...microstation j... ohh the memories
[20:54] <Jaseman> the best software company ive dealt with is graitec
[20:54] <Jaseman> which used to be called integer
[20:54] <Jaseman> they are really helpful
[20:55] <Jaseman> if you find a bug they will rewrite the program for you
[20:55] <Jaseman> i once phoned autodesk about a problem in AutoCAD LT
[20:55] <Jaseman> it has an option to import raster images
[20:55] <Jaseman> but it doesnt work that feature
[20:55] <Jaseman> autodesk told me LT doesnt support that
[20:55] <Jaseman> so i said....
[20:56] <Jaseman> why the hell did you put it as an option on the menu then?
[20:56] <Jaseman> they had no answer
[20:56] <george___> so you would ask and then purchase the full version
[20:56] * knotty (~void@loin.ailleurs.org) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:56] <Jaseman> they just wouldnt acknowledge it was a bug
[20:57] <Hopsy> what is IDE?
[20:57] <Hopsy> Enhanced
[20:57] <Hopsy> and AHCI
[20:57] <Jaseman> why do you ask?
[20:57] <george___> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDE
[20:57] <george___> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ahci
[20:57] <Hopsy> its listed on my boot screen
[20:58] <tntexplosivesltd> Hopsy: ever tried google?
[20:58] <Hopsy> i am gonna try now
[20:58] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[20:58] <Hopsy> ok thanks bye
[20:58] <Hopsy> is it out yet?
[20:58] * PiBot slaps Hopsy across the face with a cast iron pan.
[20:58] <tntexplosivesltd> inb4 lmgtfy link
[20:59] <Jaseman> what is this thing in front of me?
[20:59] <Jaseman> oh its a computer
[20:59] <mkopack> LOL, you think it's bad now guys, wait until all the Linux noobs get their hands on the Pi's!
[20:59] <Thorn_> where is pwr buttun
[20:59] * ratherDashing (6c32e561@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <Davespice> evening all
[20:59] <Thorn_> evening
[20:59] <george___> i'm going to love all the new influx of linux first-timers, that's what it's all about
[21:00] <mkopack> I mean, I'm no linux guru, but I can at least get around in the OS??? and know enough about computers in general??? There are TONS who will get their hands on these who are of the DVD player crowd who expect to plug them in and just do magic for them
[21:00] <Jaseman> not an unreasonable expectation
[21:00] <Jaseman> thats the problem with linux
[21:00] <Jaseman> nothing works straight off
[21:00] <Jaseman> you try it... it fails
[21:01] <Jaseman> then you spend a few hours fixing it
[21:01] <Jaseman> or get really angry and go back to windows
[21:01] <tntexplosivesltd> never
[21:01] <george___> linux trolls gonna troll
[21:01] <tntexplosivesltd> it will be fun
[21:02] <Jaseman> don't say trolls ever again
[21:02] <Jaseman> its not big and its not clever
[21:02] <mkopack> Well, to be honest, that's why I don't use Linux much??? I can USE it, but as soon as you start having to admin it, and do anything funky beyond apt-get install PKG, I start saying screw this...
[21:03] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[21:03] <mkopack> And all too often when you ask a question you just get attitude back from the "experts" who expect you to want to read through some horribly long cryptic man page to get your answer.
[21:04] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:04] <DaQatz> As someone who is a fair hand at linux. The man pages are barely north of useless in many cases.
[21:05] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-138-163.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:05] <mkopack> And then going online often proves even more confusing because no 2 versions of Linux do it the same way, have the same switches, etc. No 2 versions install stuff to the same places in the FS, and go forbid if you have some esoteric hardware or problem
[21:05] <Dagger3> mkopack: to be fair, it is pretty annoying when someone asks a dumb question that's answered in the --help output (or, indeed, the manpage), and they could have read it themselves in less time than it takes the other person to look it up and copy/paste the relevant bit
[21:05] * Martix (~martix@134.89.broadband12.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:06] <Jaseman> well its free so....
[21:06] <mkopack> Dagger: Sure, but then, some people coming into this don't even KNOW about Man pages...
[21:06] <Dagger3> not saying that was the case for your questions, but people on IRC have seen and answered *way* too many dumb questions to have much patience with people that can't be bothered to look at the documentation
[21:06] <Jaseman> you cant complain much
[21:06] <Jaseman> but then windows is not expensive
[21:06] <Jaseman> especially if you go for OEM win XP
[21:06] <Thorn_> man pages are broken by design
[21:06] <Thorn_> a real man doesnt need a manual
[21:06] <mkopack> So what I'd say to that is, if you find the question annoying or repetitive, just ignore it and let somebody else answer (or not)
[21:06] <DaQatz> mkopack, Actually linux is pretty much linux. Once you understand how it works. The differences between distros is more like find whether some puts the shirts in thr top drawer or the bottom.
[21:07] <Jaseman> you know what i hate.....
[21:07] <Jaseman> those magazines for noobs about using windows
[21:07] <Jaseman> they are aimed at old people who havent got a bloody clue
[21:07] * zgr (~zgrge@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:07] <Jaseman> and they get so smug and happy that they worked out how to open control panel
[21:08] * zgr (~zgrge@ has left #raspberrypi
[21:08] <Jaseman> they dont know what it is but they opened it
[21:08] <traeak> retreat to the dev channel when the rpi really gets out there
[21:08] <mkopack> LOL, yeah, seriously
[21:08] <Jaseman> if you need a two page explanation of what the start button is, then computing is not for you
[21:09] <DaQatz> Lol
[21:09] * george___ (ada79aac@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[21:10] <Jaseman> i remember once trying to help my old american girlfriend with her computer
[21:10] <Jaseman> this was in the days of win98
[21:10] <Jaseman> she didnt have any sound
[21:10] <Jaseman> i said to her....
[21:10] <esotera> apple mags are worse
[21:10] <Jaseman> can you see that yellow speaker near the clock
[21:10] <Jaseman> at the bottom right of the screen
[21:11] <Jaseman> 3 hours later she found the volume control
[21:11] <DaQatz> Oi
[21:11] <DaQatz> Now that is a bit out of it.
[21:13] <Jaseman> anyway as i mentioned earier....
[21:14] <Jaseman> im going to make a contest
[21:14] <Jaseman> who can write the best python program
[21:14] <Jaseman> ni less than 100 lines of code
[21:14] <Jaseman> 1000
[21:14] <Jaseman> it has to be some sort of graphical masterpeice
[21:14] <Jaseman> sprites bouncing all over the place
[21:15] <Jaseman> copper bars scrollies
[21:15] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-168-104-90.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:15] <traeak> one little problem: 10 years ago i chose ruby over python since ruby had a more consistent interface (at the time)
[21:15] <Jaseman> soundtracker background music - the whole works
[21:15] <feep> can it be a fractal generator with a http interface?
[21:16] <feep> I'm at 1115 lines though :/ and also it's not in python.
[21:16] <tntexplosivesltd> why python?
[21:16] <tntexplosivesltd> just for interest?
[21:17] <feep> I could get it down to 1000 lines though
[21:17] <Jaseman> do it
[21:17] <Jaseman> python is the language of the pi
[21:17] <feep> what lol no.
[21:17] <feep> well I hope not
[21:18] <feep> thing's slow enough already
[21:18] <feep> :D
[21:18] <esotera> but very easy to pickup & has modules for about everything
[21:18] <feep> so does C
[21:18] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[21:18] <feep> well, C isn't easy to pick up :D
[21:18] <esotera> which is brilliant for helping kids to get started
[21:18] <feep> oh I absolutely agoooooh
[21:18] <feep> I see where you're going with thius
[21:18] <feep> *this
[21:19] <ShiftPlusOne> language of the pi? It just seems like a few of the devs think that python is a good language to start with.
[21:19] * filth (~ha@cable-prv-fe63dd00-111.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Quit: Oxide.)
[21:19] <feep> right, sometimes I forget the pi is an educational device
[21:19] <ShiftPlusOne> Wouldn't call it language of the pi just based on that.
[21:19] <haltdef> I'm trying to learn python atm
[21:19] <haltdef> hard
[21:19] <Jaseman> look i dont want to hear abuot how you love c++
[21:19] <feep> but yeah I didn't port my compiler to ARM in order to use python on the raz :D
[21:19] <Jaseman> the chosen language is python - end of story
[21:19] <feep> Jaseman: how appropriate .. I fucking hate C++. :D
[21:20] <Jaseman> youll get python bundled on the official distro
[21:20] <feep> Jaseman: I strongly hope the official distro bundles gcc also :D
[21:20] <Jaseman> and thats what they will promote as educational programming introduction
[21:20] <feep> oh I absolutely agree
[21:20] <feep> py is great for education
[21:20] <Jaseman> so...
[21:21] <ShiftPlusOne> I would be surprised if gcc isn't included... would be stupid to include python and not gcc
[21:21] <feep> [21:18:41] <feep> right, sometimes I forget the pi is an educational device
[21:21] <feep> [21:19:02] <feep> but yeah I didn't port my compiler to ARM in order to use python on the raz :D
[21:21] <Jaseman> just think all those young avril laviigne's out there
[21:21] <Jaseman> buying their raspberries
[21:21] <Jaseman> and you can impress them with your programming skill
[21:21] <mkopack> EVERY language has it's good and bad points, just depends on what you're trying to do.
[21:21] <mkopack> I honestly would't mind seeing Lua included???
[21:22] <feep> C++ has a lot of gratuitous bad points though.
[21:22] <feep> I think teaching it to newcomers would border on child abuse.
[21:22] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:22] <Jaseman> C++ is great if you like writing twice as much code for twice as little action
[21:22] <feep> and it makes a certain sense to standardize on an "official language of the rpi"
[21:22] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:22] <ShiftPlusOne> why all the c++ bashing.... I am sure most of the software running on your computer right now was written in c++
[21:23] <Jaseman> im sure its wonderful.....
[21:23] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: which is a testament to the power of lock-in more than anything else
[21:23] <Jaseman> i jsut dont like it when people go on about its faster because its lower level blah blah blah
[21:23] <feep> (good luck writing qt code in anything that's not c++)
[21:24] <Jaseman> there's always one smart arse that needs his C++ head flushed down the toilet
[21:24] <ShiftPlusOne> O_o
[21:24] <feep> now now, calm~
[21:24] <Jaseman> when hes spitting out the toilet paper you say....
[21:24] <Jaseman> 'Python - say it!'
[21:24] <Jaseman> say it!!!!
[21:24] <feep> they can't help they've never been exposed to any of the myriad superior languages
[21:24] <feep> um
[21:25] <feep> Jaseman: python is most definitely not a replacement for C++.
[21:25] <Jaseman> grrr
[21:25] <ShiftPlusOne> surely you people are trolling
[21:25] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: just a minor language war
[21:25] <feep> Jaseman: for one, sometimes people _really honestly do need native performance_
[21:25] <Jaseman> listen i came back through time from the distant future
[21:25] <feep> for another, shipping python programs is
[21:25] <feep> no
[21:25] <feep> just no
[21:26] <Jaseman> and in that future everyone was using python
[21:26] <feep> ooh
[21:26] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:26] <feep> one of those postapocalyptic wastelands
[21:26] <Jaseman> yeah.. sort of like mad max....
[21:26] <feep> guess what's what you get when you try to use python for everything :D
[21:27] <Jaseman> children hooking up raspberrise to a car battery in the desert
[21:27] <rm> and no HDMI monitor 2000 km in the radius
[21:27] <tntexplosivesltd> Jaseman: you know what else comes on the pi?
[21:27] <tntexplosivesltd> perl.
[21:27] <feep> anyway C++ is a horrible language but there isn't anything that can decisively kick it out of its niche
[21:27] <feep> (yet)
[21:27] <feep> D comes close but has toolchain issues
[21:27] <tntexplosivesltd> go perl go
[21:27] <Jaseman> perl is for forms on web pages
[21:27] <Jaseman> as far as im concerned
[21:27] <feep> and also can't bind to C++ libraries any more than any other language can
[21:28] <Jaseman> but you can print "Hello World"
[21:28] <Jaseman> and thats all that matters
[21:28] <ShiftPlusOne> feep, so what happened that you hate c++ so much? this sounds like something that's based on bad experience rather than just opinion.
[21:28] <tntexplosivesltd> yay narrow-mindedness =D
[21:28] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: honestly no, not really. I hate it on first principles. :D
[21:29] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: comes with having used superior languages for years
[21:29] <Jaseman> i had a go with turbo c
[21:29] <Jaseman> and it was not a nice experience
[21:29] <OneFix_Work> I have a question...why doesn't the foundation auction off say the first 1000 boards and ship them a week ahead of the release date...pushing the release date back a week wouldn't hurt, and the extra money could go to fund the foundation...
[21:29] <tntexplosivesltd> turbo C ._.
[21:29] <Jaseman> it was even worse than setting up linux
[21:29] <traeak> heh
[21:29] <feep> isn't that like
[21:29] <ShiftPlusOne> OneFix_Work, because they don't need extra money
[21:29] <feep> super old?
[21:29] <OneFix_Work> ShiftPlusOne: Oh, kewl...
[21:29] <traeak> c++ bashing...it's a *very* good tool for high performance and control
[21:29] <feep> traeak: it's a terrible language.
[21:29] <traeak> but c++ definitely shows its age and problems with the 'c' compatibility
[21:30] <traeak> feep: not a terrible language, just one with more than few faults
[21:30] <traeak> i'm keeping track of "clay" for now
[21:30] <tntexplosivesltd> C++ - done well - is awesome
[21:30] <traeak> although i'm not sure how grat that is
[21:30] <feep> traeak: it is most definitely terrible in comparison to most modern alternatives.
[21:30] <tntexplosivesltd> I tend to write it like C
[21:30] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: yup, it just takes a potentially inordinate amount of experience to make c++ really rock
[21:30] <Jaseman> listen all languages interpret the code....
[21:30] <feep> I mean, no type deduction? #includes? no closures? no nested functions at all? multiple inheritance? in 2012?
[21:30] <ShiftPlusOne> feep, what would you consider a good modern alternative?
[21:30] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:30] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: D
[21:30] <Jaseman> and turn it into 00001111010101010101
[21:30] <feep> C# is fairly good too
[21:30] <feep> Java .. not
[21:31] <traeak> feep: most "modern" alternatives have made idiotic choices which means they won't outlive c++ regarding usefulness
[21:31] <Jaseman> and we are at the dumb end, just want to write it as easily as possible
[21:31] <feep> python is friendly! but doesn't have the same performance quite yet
[21:31] <feep> afaik
[21:31] <Jaseman> and get the computer to do all the working it out what we want
[21:31] <traeak> what i've seen so far the clay guys probably have a "clue"
[21:31] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: type deduction is not a good thing...
[21:31] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: really, as long as it has type inference and nested closures I'll be reasonably happy with it
[21:31] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: you checked out clay? it's a dramatically more useful 'c'
[21:31] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: sounds like stockholm syndrome~
[21:31] <tntexplosivesltd> nah
[21:32] <Jaseman> it should be as simple as......
[21:32] <feep> and/or sour grapes.
[21:32] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: it's a terrible idea
[21:32] <feep> it's a great idea.
[21:32] <tntexplosivesltd> ._.
[21:32] <Jaseman> right computer, draw me a yellow circle on the screen
[21:32] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't want to live on this planet any more
[21:32] <Jaseman> and it just does it
[21:32] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: and yeah, we've gone back to struct oriented programming iwth c++ and heavy heavy use of <algorithm>
[21:32] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: do you have any actual arguments against it?
[21:32] <ShiftPlusOne> I'll be back when sanity is restored.
[21:32] <Jaseman> then you say, no a bit smaller
[21:32] <Jaseman> and it does it
[21:32] <feep> oh and have I mentioned that templates in c++ are just .. bad?
[21:32] <traeak> so check out "clay"
[21:32] <feep> look at D templates for how to design a modern template system
[21:33] <feep> clay is supposedly good too!
[21:33] <traeak> it fixes template stuff
[21:33] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: never use templates, hate them
[21:33] <Jaseman> i cant stand CLASSES
[21:33] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: yeah because they're shit in C++
[21:33] <traeak> don't touch 'D' with a 10 ft pole, it's dramatically over engineenered
[21:33] <Jaseman> i hate them in HTML
[21:33] <traeak> and non orthogonal
[21:33] <Jaseman> and i hate them in general
[21:33] <tntexplosivesltd> they are
[21:33] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: in a sane language, templates are a highly valuable and powerful tool.
[21:33] <traeak> Jaseman: which is why you also would probably like "clay" as well
[21:33] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[21:33] <feep> traeak: it's actually very orthogonal.
[21:33] <feep> I don't think you ever tried it.
[21:33] <traeak> hehe
[21:34] <Jaseman> i tried python and i liked it
[21:34] <traeak> i udnerstand the failings of c++ and followed 'D' for a long time
[21:34] <feep> python is nice :)
[21:34] <feep> everyone can agree on that.
[21:34] <traeak> enoiugh to realize they were screwing it up
[21:34] <feep> traeak: eh, I mostly disagree. :D
[21:34] <traeak> python is fine for what it does
[21:34] <Jaseman> well pygame i like
[21:34] <traeak> feep: that's fine, it's epic fail for systems programming, which is why i point to Clay again
[21:34] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: type inference makes the compilation (or running) slower, and it makes it horrible for other people to read your code
[21:34] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: no, and no
[21:34] <feep> try again
[21:34] <feep> um
[21:34] <feep> I feel we need to differentiate between two things here
[21:34] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: yes that's a problem with type inference that scares me as well
[21:35] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: yes and yes
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[21:35] <feep> pervasive type inference, like foo(x, y, z)
[21:35] <Jaseman> if you want to move a ball around the screen just use powerpoint
[21:35] <feep> and straightforward type inference like auto int = 4
[21:35] <feep> er, auto i = 4
[21:35] <feep> the second form is in fact virtually free
[21:35] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: then be specific in your arguments =D
[21:35] <feep> fair, fair
[21:35] <traeak> feep: that i don't like so much
[21:35] <feep> every modern language should at least allow type inference in cheap cases
[21:36] <tntexplosivesltd> there must be SOME slow down
[21:36] <feep> there isn't.
[21:36] <tntexplosivesltd> even if minimal
[21:36] <feep> no.
[21:36] <tntexplosivesltd> there would be
[21:36] <feep> no.
[21:36] <traeak> feep: whether or not that variable is signed or not is VERY important
[21:36] * peturi (petur@kofi.petur.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:36] <feep> traeak: it's signed
[21:36] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't see how it could not be
[21:36] <Jaseman> remember in blade runner
[21:36] <Jaseman> pan left
[21:36] <traeak> which one do you infer, signed or unsigned?
[21:36] <Jaseman> pull back
[21:36] <Jaseman> track right
[21:36] <feep> traeak: signed
[21:36] <traeak> and why prefer one over the other?
[21:36] <feep> because signed is a sane default
[21:36] <Jaseman> thats what programming should be like
[21:36] <traeak> feep: i almost never use unsigned in this case
[21:36] <tntexplosivesltd> how is it not a tiny bit slower?
[21:37] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: the compiler _already_ has the type
[21:37] <feep> it just has to look at the expression, and it has to parse the expression _anyway_
[21:37] <Jaseman> you dont need to compile it
[21:37] <traeak> i agree with tntexp in that inference sucks for medium to large program maintainability
[21:37] <feep> traeak: I strongly disagree.
[21:37] <feep> I think inference can actually help large projects
[21:37] <traeak> if al you do is write a few module stuff then inference is fine
[21:37] <feep> by reducing coupling
[21:37] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: so auto is a soecial type? that can be anything?
[21:37] <traeak> what's wrong with reducing coupling
[21:38] <feep> traeak: nothing, that's my point. type inference reduces coupling.
[21:38] <traeak> during refactor it's very useful to force break everything to make sure the refactor goes off properly
[21:38] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: auto is just a keyword for "take type from initializer"
[21:38] <tntexplosivesltd> or is it "cast" to the right type?
[21:38] <Jaseman> i have no idea what you two are on about
[21:38] <feep> we know
[21:38] <traeak> but honestly i haven't yet gone down the "auto" road yet with c++11 only rvalue references have we used yet
[21:38] <tntexplosivesltd> so it still has to work out what type to use from the initialiser?
[21:38] <Jaseman> coupling refractor
[21:38] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: it doesn't have to "work it out"
[21:39] <feep> it _knows_ the type of the initializer by virtue of having just parsed it.
[21:39] <feep> taking the type of an expression is not an expensive operation in any but the most insanely designed languages.
[21:39] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: i suspect the right way tot deal with this is to clarify use policies for auto
[21:40] <traeak> we only use typedefs in local scope in our code base due to readability issues
[21:40] <traeak> ie: if the type is too explicit only typedef in the local scope
[21:40] <Jaseman> bring back line numbers
[21:40] <traeak> and no "using" stuff either, again for clarity of interface
[21:40] <traeak> heh
[21:40] <feep> heh
[21:40] <feep> I love using
[21:40] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[21:40] <feep> but I understand that it can reduce readability.
[21:40] <traeak> feep: you must have never worked in large code bases with other people before
[21:40] <tntexplosivesltd> what, forcing namespaces on the users?
[21:41] <feep> traeak: it's true!
[21:41] <feep> traeak: let me restate
[21:41] <feep> I love using for worn hobby projects
[21:41] <tntexplosivesltd> you never use "using"
[21:41] <Jaseman> gosub 1000:return
[21:41] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: namespaces are good things, just never trash them with the "using" keyword
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[21:42] <tntexplosivesltd> yea lol
[21:42] <feep> oh wait are we talking C++ using?
[21:42] <feep> in neat, using is the equivalent of with() in other languages
[21:42] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: no-one uses neat
[21:42] <traeak> hehe
[21:42] <feep> I know.
[21:42] <traeak> no clue about "neat"
[21:42] <tntexplosivesltd> so why assume we're talking about it?
[21:43] <feep> I assumed other languages also used the using keyword in this way
[21:43] <traeak> and frankly i have no clue if "clay" will ever go anywhere
[21:43] <feep> C++ aside
[21:43] <tntexplosivesltd> 09:42 < feep> in neat, using is the equivalent of with() in other languages
[21:43] <feep> I'd forgotten that C++ already used using for its shitty namespace stuff
[21:43] <mkopack> Ugh, just looking through the course listing and trying to figure out my schedule to complete this damn Masters Degree by June 2013...
[21:43] <mkopack> Shoot me now
[21:43] <tntexplosivesltd> you know they use "with"
[21:43] <feep> I know some use with
[21:44] <tntexplosivesltd> mkopack: we get all our classes timetabled for us =3
[21:45] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: to be honest, I hate modern programming techniques. I use C++ more like C
[21:45] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: you should use a modern language occasionally
[21:45] <mkopack> well, I'm a part time student, so I TRY not to take more than 1 class per qtr??? Tough though??? Doing 2 right now and about ready to kill myself between school work, Work work, and trying to keep the house in order.
[21:45] <feep> C++ makes it easy to hate modern techniques.
[21:45] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: the c++ collections and STL are extremely powerful
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[21:45] * socialdefect__ (~socialdef@codejuggler01.tilaa.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:45] <tntexplosivesltd> traeak: ._.
[21:46] <tntexplosivesltd> the STL is filth
[21:46] <feep> traeak: they're a testament to people's masochism
[21:46] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: I use python at work =3
[21:46] <traeak> why do you say its filth? <algorithm> is genious
[21:46] <mkopack> But I'm running into issues that the classes I have left to take are all being offered at the same time, and some of them I absolutely can NOT do along with a 2nd class...
[21:46] <traeak> genius
[21:46] <traeak> heh
[21:46] <mkopack> Theory of Computation is going to suck donkey balls
[21:46] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: ^^
[21:46] <mkopack> F'ing proofs.. UGH
[21:46] <feep> traeak: no it's really um
[21:46] <tntexplosivesltd> it doesn't adhere to any standards, it's just a pile of crap
[21:47] <feep> it's genius primarily in a sense of "it's amazing that this could be accomplished in C++"
[21:47] <tntexplosivesltd> algorithm is probably the only iseful one
[21:47] <feep> not in a sense of "it's amazing that this is possible at all"
[21:47] <tntexplosivesltd> * useful
[21:47] <tntexplosivesltd> I avoid it where I can
[21:48] <traeak> hmm...it's the best vehicle for automatic SSE unit exploitation
[21:48] * nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[21:48] <feep> D2 is getting support now!
[21:48] <feep> SSE support*
[21:48] <traeak> the fact that d2 even exists is a testimony to how the language is messed up
[21:48] <feep> gcc has had autovec since 4.0, of course
[21:49] <feep> so you could write vectorizable code in gdc/D for years
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[21:49] * feep has an autovectorizable vector class for D1 :D
[21:49] <feep> well, struct. anyway!
[21:50] <feep> (neat has native sse support for vectors, of course)
[21:50] * feep is the king of premature optimization .. no register allocator, BUT SSE SUPPORT
[21:51] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: is neat compiled?
[21:51] <feep> yep
[21:51] <tntexplosivesltd> cool
[21:52] <feep> neat is basically my stab at D1.5
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[21:52] <feep> it's optimized for intermediate to advanced skill hobbyists
[21:52] <tntexplosivesltd> does anyone else use it?
[21:52] <feep> yes, totally!
[21:52] <feep> like
[21:52] <feep> two people
[21:53] <feep> >_> <_<
[21:53] <tntexplosivesltd> wow...
[21:53] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[21:53] <ShiftPlusOne> feep, you wrote your own compiler? O_o
[21:53] <feep> ShiftPlusOne: I didn't want to switch to D2.
[21:53] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-138-163.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:53] <feep> btw it totally targets arm!
[21:53] * feep wants a razpi ;_;
[21:53] <mrdragons> Is it out yet?
[21:53] * PiBot slaps mrdragons across the face with a cast iron pan.
[21:54] <feep> oh hi mrdragons
[21:54] <ShiftPlusOne> nice
[21:54] <feep> can I has answerbot?
[21:54] <mrdragons> Oh hai
[21:54] <mrdragons> I think you already haz answerbot
[21:54] <feep> in here I mean :D
[21:54] <mrdragons> I dunno. \_o_/
[21:55] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: what's the compiler written in?
[21:55] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: D1 :D
[21:55] <mrdragons> >_>
[21:55] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: http://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc
[21:55] <feep> it's a great language for writing compilers!
[21:55] <tntexplosivesltd> what's been ported to neat?
[21:55] <feep> nothing
[21:56] <feep> but it can bind to any C lib.
[21:56] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[21:56] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[21:56] <feep> well I ported the nehe gl samples
[21:56] <feep> does that count?
[21:56] <tntexplosivesltd> I guess >.>
[21:56] <feep> I also wrote a bunch of tests in it, gtk test, cairo test
[21:56] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: cairo test! https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/blob/master/cairotest.nt
[21:56] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-138-163.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:57] <traeak> feep: hopefully you killt complex garbage collection
[21:57] <tntexplosivesltd> is auto the only type?
[21:57] <tntexplosivesltd> are there other primitives?
[21:57] <tntexplosivesltd> oh I see, good
[21:58] <atts> is gdc available for arm?
[21:58] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: auto isn't a type :D
[21:58] <feep> atts: I haven't built a toolchain yet but it should work fine.
[21:59] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: auto is just the keyword for type deduction.
[21:59] <atts> feep: cool
[21:59] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: so there are still primitives?
[21:59] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: of course
[21:59] <feep> it'd be a pretty horrible D1.5 if there weren't
[21:59] <feep> :D
[21:59] <tntexplosivesltd> that you can access directly?
[21:59] <feep> yep
[21:59] <rm> http://nottinghamscience.blogspot.com/2012/02/interview-eben-upton-at-raspberrypi.html a fresh one from twitter
[21:59] <rm> did not read yet
[21:59] <feep> you need them anyway, for parameters
[21:59] <tntexplosivesltd> so what's the advantage to auto
[22:00] <tntexplosivesltd> ?
[22:00] <feep> less typing
[22:00] <feep> less explicit typing, too
[22:00] <feep> it's more DRY as well
[22:00] <feep> no ClassName classname = new ClassName
[22:00] <tntexplosivesltd> DRY?
[22:00] <feep> don't repeat yourself
[22:00] <tntexplosivesltd> ah I see
[22:00] <tntexplosivesltd> also eww, new
[22:00] <tntexplosivesltd> also
[22:00] <feep> what's wrong with it? OOP can be useful
[22:01] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-vuhvqurxtjrskrfd) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[22:01] <tntexplosivesltd> ClassName not_necessarily_a_classname = new ClassName
[22:01] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[22:01] <feep> :p
[22:01] <feep> ClassName not-necessarily-a-classname = new Classname,
[22:01] <feep> *;
[22:01] <tntexplosivesltd> ...
[22:01] <feep> yup
[22:01] <tntexplosivesltd> no dashes please
[22:01] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[22:01] <feep> you don't have to use them :D
[22:02] <tntexplosivesltd> so are () optional in functions in neat?
[22:02] <feep> ayup
[22:02] <feep> well
[22:02] <feep> rather
[22:03] <feep> the function call syntax is just "<function> <expr>"
[22:03] <feep> (a, b, c) is a tuple.
[22:03] <tntexplosivesltd> how does it tell what a function is?
[22:03] <feep> huh?
[22:03] <feep> as opposed to what?
[22:03] <tntexplosivesltd> as opposed to an unfinished statement
[22:03] <Jaseman> are you two still going on about that
[22:03] <feep> what sort of statement would have the form <statement> <expr> and appear in an expression context?
[22:03] <tntexplosivesltd> Jaseman: we're talking about neat
[22:04] <tntexplosivesltd> it's completely civi; =3
[22:04] <tntexplosivesltd> * civil
[22:04] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: true
[22:04] <feep> that said, parsing is straightforwardly greedy.
[22:04] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[22:05] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm, that all looks quite C-like =P
[22:05] <feep> D and Neat are both part of the family of C-like languages.
[22:05] <tntexplosivesltd> int fps, lastTime = time null; <- What does that line actually do?
[22:06] <feep> in C terms
[22:06] <feep> int fps = 0; int lastTime = time((time*t)null);
[22:06] <tntexplosivesltd> does it set both to a null time?
[22:06] <feep> er, time_t
[22:06] <feep> er, NULL
[22:06] <tntexplosivesltd> oh
[22:06] <tntexplosivesltd> so it is sane
[22:06] <feep> yup
[22:06] <feep> well I hope so
[22:06] <feep> the language has plenty of insanity but it tends to be isolated
[22:06] <tntexplosivesltd> I thought it meant fps = lastTime = time nulll
[22:07] <feep> haha no. :D
[22:07] <tntexplosivesltd> * null
[22:07] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: oh, you know what's deliciously insane?
[22:07] <feep> mode cairo-context cairo_create surface {
[22:07] <feep> paint;
[22:07] <tntexplosivesltd> what the hell...
[22:07] <feep> this is short for auto surf = cairo_create surface; ... cairo_paint(surf);
[22:07] <feep> defmode cairo-context x "prefix cairo_ first-arg x";
[22:07] <tntexplosivesltd> ._.
[22:08] <feep> it's part of a set of language features designed to translate C libraries into pseudo-OOP form.
[22:08] <tntexplosivesltd> interesting
[22:08] <feep> as I said, neat is not really about readability
[22:08] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't want my C ro be OOP XD
[22:08] <feep> it makes zero concessions to bad coders. :D
[22:08] <tntexplosivesltd> * to be
[22:08] <feep> that's okay, it's just pseudo-oop :D
[22:09] <tntexplosivesltd> but lets you throw auto type deduction around like you're just out of uni =P
[22:09] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[22:09] <feep> funny you should say that!
[22:09] <feep> :D
[22:09] <tntexplosivesltd> called it
[22:09] <feep> well, I'm within either 1 or ~6 months of being almost out of uni
[22:10] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: it's a deliberate language choice though.
[22:10] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah
[22:10] <feep> I made neat for being a language that would maximize my own efficiency.
[22:10] <tntexplosivesltd> so when you go int i; it automatically assigns it to 0
[22:10] <tntexplosivesltd> ?
[22:10] <feep> yep
[22:10] <feep> just like D
[22:10] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm
[22:10] <feep> that's just sane
[22:11] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[22:11] <feep> no uninitialized values floating about
[22:11] <feep> you can do int i = void
[22:11] <feep> to skip the initialization
[22:11] <tntexplosivesltd> awesome
[22:11] <feep> if you REALLY REALLY REALLY got an inner loop
[22:11] <tntexplosivesltd> return glsetup.update window; ?
[22:11] <tntexplosivesltd> window is a param
[22:11] <feep> glsetup is a module
[22:11] * octeris (~remd@user-9654ea.user.msu.edu) has left #raspberrypi
[22:11] <tntexplosivesltd> ?
[22:12] <feep> oh, yes
[22:12] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm
[22:12] <feep> you can do delightful chaining
[22:12] <tntexplosivesltd> that looks,,, untidy
[22:12] <tntexplosivesltd> * ...
[22:12] <feep> there's way worse examples
[22:12] <feep> hold on
[22:12] <tntexplosivesltd> ._.
[22:12] <feep> this is my favorite
[22:12] <feep> sdl_base.nt: while SDL_PollEvent &SDL_Event ev using ev switch int t over t == type {
[22:12] <tntexplosivesltd> ...
[22:12] <feep> though honestly
[22:12] <mrdragons> wtf
[22:12] <feep> that's basically me going a bit crazy.
[22:13] <tntexplosivesltd> how does it differentiate between int i and method i
[22:13] <feep> ?
[22:13] <feep> method i?
[22:13] <tntexplosivesltd> if you had a method called "method"
[22:13] <tntexplosivesltd> and I was being passed as a param
[22:13] <feep> &method
[22:13] <tntexplosivesltd> * i
[22:13] <tntexplosivesltd> what...?
[22:13] <feep> confused
[22:14] <feep> if I have void foo(int i) { ... }?
[22:14] <Jaseman> dont worry mr dragons
[22:14] <feep> you can do this.i to disambiguate
[22:14] <Jaseman> we're talking in code now
[22:14] <tntexplosivesltd> so you have a method called doSomething
[22:14] <tntexplosivesltd> and you call that method with i as a param
[22:14] <feep> void doSomething(int i) { }
[22:14] <tntexplosivesltd> so it's doSomething i
[22:14] <feep> yes
[22:15] <tntexplosivesltd> but to initialise i, it's int i
[22:15] <feep> yes ..
[22:15] <feep> oh, you mean
[22:15] <tntexplosivesltd> how does the compiler tell the difference?
[22:15] <feep> how does the parser differentiate?
[22:15] <tntexplosivesltd> well yeah
[22:15] <feep> well it's a recursive-descent with memoization, aka packrat, without a dedicated lexer
[22:15] <feep> it's slow-ish but it gives me a lot of flexibility
[22:15] <Jaseman> if raspberries<=0: dissapoint+=1000000*1000000 else: happiness=10000000
[22:16] <feep> how would you have a negative raspberry
[22:16] <feep> would the auction winners have to give theirs back?
[22:16] <Jaseman> its the number that are available to buy
[22:16] <feep> also I'm fairly sure you get an integer overflow
[22:16] <Jaseman> after the first minute they go on sale
[22:16] <Jaseman> you'd get something
[22:17] <Jaseman> overflow is one way to describe it i suppose
[22:17] <feep> yeah, 39 bits
[22:18] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: also I tweaked the fuck out of the parser to compensate for the innate slowness of the architecture
[22:18] <feep> it's decent fast nowadays I think :D
[22:18] <feep> if it gets slow again I'll just tweak it more
[22:18] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[22:18] <Jaseman> for raspberries in range(0,10000):buy=1
[22:18] <feep> the parser code is some of the worst in fcc
[22:19] <mrdragons> Jaseman: That's signature python right thar
[22:19] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: check it out, isn't she a beaut https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/blob/master/parseBase.d#L492
[22:19] <Jaseman> yep
[22:19] <esotera> has anyone else considered that the raspberry pi is sort of like a pregnancy? most of us have known about it for several months, are all really looking forward to it, and as soon as it comes out it'll be keeping us up all night.
[22:20] <mrdragons> And if it comes out it march that'd be 9 months since it was announced publicly
[22:20] <feep> somebody should sneak into the factory at night and do a caesarean
[22:20] <Jaseman> lol
[22:20] <Jaseman> is Liz the mother?
[22:21] <Thorn_> are you saying liz is a factory?
[22:21] <esotera> everyone on the project must be
[22:21] <Jaseman> congratulations... it's a raspberry
[22:21] <mrdragons> Well, she did mail all those stickers
[22:21] <tntexplosivesltd> feep: T_T
[22:21] <feep> Jaseman: but is it a boy raspberry or a girl raspberry?
[22:21] <mrdragons> Yes
[22:21] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: I know, right
[22:21] <Jaseman> a girl
[22:21] <feep> luckily the insanity is contained.
[22:22] <Jaseman> judging by its ports
[22:22] <feep> XD
[22:22] <feep> oh you like those ports, don't you
[22:22] <mrdragons> Pedo
[22:22] <Jaseman> ha ha
[22:22] <feep> you want to plug in your power cable
[22:22] <feep> which works well because it's tiny .. usb
[22:22] * feep zinger
[22:22] <Thorn_> pg13 pl0x
[22:23] <feep> yes yes
[22:23] <Jaseman> i did not have sexual interface with the GPIO
[22:23] <mrdragons> That could definitely show up in apg13 movie
[22:23] <mrdragons> a pg13*
[22:23] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: btw here's the longer version of that earlier long line http://paste.pocoo.org/show/546990/
[22:23] <feep> I am extremely fond of switch-over
[22:24] <feep> it's the one language feature in neat that I can say without reservation is genuinely _novel_.
[22:24] <tntexplosivesltd> ooh, that's interesting
[22:24] <tntexplosivesltd> switches don't fall through?
[22:24] <feep> note that the over condition could just as easily be switch int x over array[x]
[22:24] <feep> and no
[22:24] <feep> it's not _really_ a traditional switch
[22:25] <Jaseman> only down
[22:25] <feep> it's actually a series of if/else statements
[22:25] <feep> it's generated by a reader macro!
[22:25] <feep> written in a lisp-like dialect
[22:25] <feep> :D
[22:25] <tntexplosivesltd> is it heavily optimised like normal switch statements in C?
[22:25] <feep> (yes my compiler has a lisp interpreter embedded in it)
[22:25] <feep> hell naw :D
[22:26] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't want to live on this planet any more
[22:26] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: lisp is actually extremely friendly to embed
[22:26] <feep> I think the parser is only like a page of code
[22:26] <mrdragons> It is from the 1950's after all
[22:26] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/blob/master/ast/tenth.d#L104 yeah
[22:27] * ratherDashing (6c32e561@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:27] <mrdragons> Man, I just haven't felt like coding at all recently
[22:27] <mrdragons> I need some inspiration
[22:28] <feep> relatedly, please please please somebody ask what the chaincast() function is for
[22:28] * TSL (5b7ee6f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:28] <feep> that one is my favorite in all the code, I think
[22:28] <mrdragons> Oh hello there feeb, may I inquire what the chaincast function is for?
[22:28] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't want to see any more of this infernal language
[22:28] <feep> I'M GLAD YOU ASKED.
[22:29] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[22:29] <feep> tntexplosivesltd: note that my D code is highly idiomatic and should not be taken as an indictment of the language as a whole.
[22:29] * Jaseman (5f93f112@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:29] <feep> anyway, have you ever written code like this
[22:29] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[22:29] <tntexplosivesltd> I meant neat
[22:29] <feep> object& a = dynamic_cast<object> b;
[22:29] <feep> if (!a) return false;
[22:29] <tntexplosivesltd> T_T
[22:29] <feep> object2& b = dynamic_cast<object2> a.foo;
[22:29] <feep> if (!b) return false;
[22:30] <feep> especially if you're writing glue code between, say, a lisp interpreter and D
[22:30] <feep> this gets old. this gets very very old, very very fast.
[22:30] <feep> would be grand if we could whip up a quick DSL for describing just these kinds of chained.....casts
[22:30] <feep> https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/blob/master/ast/macros.d#L281 Oh look an example!
[22:31] <feep> in chaincast terms, the above would be mixin(chaincast("res: bla bla error text: b -> object: %.foo -> object2"));
[22:32] <feep> read "chaincast: b to object; its foo property to object2"
[22:32] <feep> thus turning five, six or even seven lines into one which is easily readable if you know the very simple syntax.
[22:32] * feep has a mancrush on DSLs.
[22:35] <tntexplosivesltd> DSLs?
[22:35] <feep> domain-specific languages
[22:35] <tntexplosivesltd> ah
[22:35] <feep> like that chaincast syntax
[22:37] * NIN101 (~NIN@ Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[22:38] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm, I never thought about nested functions in C++
[22:38] <tntexplosivesltd> guess I never needed them
[22:38] <feep> guess you never tried them :)
[22:38] <feep> nested functions are incredibly useful for dynamically changing the behavior of other functions via callbacks
[22:38] <tntexplosivesltd> guess I never needed them XD
[22:38] <feep> absurdly valuable in gui code for instance
[22:39] <feep> oh you never _need_ them
[22:39] <feep> but sometimes you have to go through contortions in order to do something that'd be trivial with nested functions
[22:39] <tntexplosivesltd> gui...?
[22:39] <tntexplosivesltd> you're kidding, right?
[22:39] <feep> graphical user interface
[22:39] <feep> no ..
[22:40] <tntexplosivesltd> I would bever write GUI code...
[22:40] <tntexplosivesltd> * never
[22:40] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:40] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[22:40] <feep> I could not know that! :D
[22:40] <feep> anyway not every change in the behavior of a widget class has to be implemented via inheritance
[22:41] <tntexplosivesltd> eww inheiritance
[22:41] <tntexplosivesltd> compositional ftw
[22:42] <feep> ^^
[22:42] <feep> compositional doesn't really let you select a behavior that's not hardcoded
[22:42] <tntexplosivesltd> neither does inheiritance unless you override
[22:43] <tntexplosivesltd> which in some cases is filthy
[22:43] <feep> yeah but delegates do :D
[22:43] <tntexplosivesltd> i.e. it's done really really poorly a lot if the time
[22:43] <tntexplosivesltd> * of
[22:45] <feep> oh, delegates are one of those great D things that you can't imagine a language not having after you've used them
[22:45] <feep> they're basically a combination function pointer and context pointer
[22:45] <feep> they'
[22:46] <feep> they're the unified type for nested functions, member functions ..
[22:46] <feep> so class C { void foo() { } } C c = new C; &c.foo is void delegate() which is the same as {&C.foo, c}
[22:47] <feep> but void foo() { void bar() { } &bar is also void delegate()
[22:47] <feep> except there it's {&__void_bar_under_void_foo, EBP}
[22:48] * diplo (~diplo@5ad6e9e7.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[22:59] <inthetimeof> anyone think it's possible to use a usb cellular modem (3g/4g usb stick) with the RP?
[22:59] <mkopack> No reason it shouldn't work. So long as there are drivers that aren't binary
[22:59] <Tobias|> I don't see why it wouldn't be
[22:59] <hamitron> most likely can
[23:00] <ShiftPlusOne> those are normally HID, aren't they?
[23:00] <inthetimeof> Ok, thank you everyone.
[23:00] <mkopack> HID?
[23:00] <mkopack> What's that got to do with it?
[23:00] <inthetimeof> human interface devices
[23:00] <hamitron> human?
[23:00] <hamitron> ;/
[23:00] <tntexplosivesltd> ShiftPlusOne: yeah but you need to be able to "dial-in" to the modem
[23:00] <mkopack> In general, anything USB *should* work, so long as there isn't some sort of binary-only driver (which is probably compiled for x86).
[23:01] <tntexplosivesltd> so relies on there being software tat lets you use it
[23:01] <mkopack> inthetimeof: I know what HID means, why does that matter?
[23:01] <tntexplosivesltd> * that
[23:01] <inthetimeof> thought you asked, n/m
[23:01] <tntexplosivesltd> mkopack: if it's HID, almost anything can talk to it
[23:01] <tntexplosivesltd> XD
[23:01] <mkopack> Ah, gotchya
[23:02] <mkopack> Yeah, HID is just a protocol
[23:02] <tntexplosivesltd> mhm
[23:02] <inthetimeof> anyway, looks like this might be a way to build a phone out of the RP, data only voip
[23:03] <tntexplosivesltd> tbh anything that's USB is most likely HID-compliant
[23:03] <ShiftPlusOne> pretty bad phone =)
[23:03] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:03] <tntexplosivesltd> or make a tablet
[23:03] <haltdef> good news on the site
[23:03] <inthetimeof> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/615
[23:03] <tntexplosivesltd> =o
[23:03] <ukscone> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/615
[23:04] <tntexplosivesltd> datasheet =D
[23:04] <ShiftPlusOne> wow
[23:04] <tntexplosivesltd> I'm in nerd heaven
[23:04] <ShiftPlusOne> nice
[23:04] <ukscone> reading it now
[23:04] <haltdef> what does the datasheet mean we can do with these things we couldn't do without?
[23:05] <chris_99> ooooooooooooooh
[23:05] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@CPE0017f2324fce-CM0012250096a8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:05] <inthetimeof> "be able to buy them before the end of the month"
[23:05] <tntexplosivesltd> haltdef: play with all the registers
[23:05] <ShiftPlusOne> Not seeing anything about the graphics though
[23:05] <haltdef> by we I mean end user who couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag
[23:06] <tntexplosivesltd> nothing
[23:06] <tntexplosivesltd> that's not who the datasheet is intended for =P
[23:06] <haltdef> I meant what will it make possible :P
[23:06] <haltdef> or is it just .. interesting
[23:06] <tntexplosivesltd> good hardware control libraries
[23:06] <tntexplosivesltd> OOOOG
[23:06] <tntexplosivesltd> * OOOOOOH
[23:07] <mkopack> Ok, so they have a semi-firm date now for when the boards will be finished...
[23:07] <tntexplosivesltd> PWM -D
[23:07] <tntexplosivesltd> * =D
[23:07] <tntexplosivesltd> yeaha
[23:07] <mkopack> I'm HOPING Eben+Liz are going to China to check them out BEFORe then to be sure they check out ok...
[23:07] <tntexplosivesltd> topic update time?
[23:07] <tntexplosivesltd> "Eben and I may be going to China to make sure that the boards can be brought up properly for that date if necessary. We???ll be airfreighting them to the UK immediately, so you should be able to buy them before the end of the month."
[23:07] <mkopack> And that means we should be able to order I'd think before end of Feb
[23:07] <ukscone> yay now i know wheree the gpio are i can redo my gpio tweaker for the pi
[23:07] <ShiftPlusOne> gpio tweaker?
[23:08] * imnichol (~ian@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:08] <ukscone> a utility that uses mmap to bittwiddle gpio registers
[23:09] <LiENUS> is it true?!
[23:09] <LiENUS> we only have two weeks?!
[23:09] <tntexplosivesltd> yes
[23:09] <inthetimeof> yep
[23:09] <tntexplosivesltd> it is true
[23:09] <LiENUS> just saw the twatter post
[23:09] <tntexplosivesltd> through winter and summer we have waited
[23:09] <mkopack> Well, KINDa??? They should be done being MANUFACTURED in 2 weeks
[23:09] <mkopack> We should be able to order before end of the month
[23:10] <mkopack> there's 9 days in between there???.
[23:10] <tntexplosivesltd> oh yeah, leap year
[23:10] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, had to google to figure out what the hell you just said, but nice.
[23:10] <mkopack> And that's IF the chinese got it right and there aren't any problems with the production boards
[23:10] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[23:10] <tntexplosivesltd> don't say that
[23:11] <ukscone> looks like all i'll have to do is change the register base and a few strings
[23:11] <tntexplosivesltd> you'll ,ake it happen
[23:11] <tntexplosivesltd> * make
[23:11] <mkopack> sorry! I just know how things go with those chinese fab houses on small production runs like this...
[23:11] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[23:11] <tntexplosivesltd> let's hope not >.>
[23:12] <ukscone> have to see if the gpio pins we have wrt their alt function
[23:12] <ukscone> might be able to rearrange a few of them
[23:12] <inthetimeof> are they going to be testing the boards prior to shipping? or just like a 10% of batch testing?
[23:12] <mkopack> I waited for MONTHS to get my Fanatec steering wheel controller for my XB360???. the engineering was german, and was fantastic??? The production was in China??? and left a bit to be desired in terms of QC.
[23:12] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-ovyzapecjcdgokix) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:13] <mkopack> Had to send the first one back because of electronics part failure
[23:13] <mkopack> The replacement I got had a bad D-pad???.
[23:13] <tntexplosivesltd> =(
[23:13] <tntexplosivesltd> china can be a bit iffy
[23:13] <inthetimeof> you get what you pay for
[23:13] <haltdef> chinese stig on the loose
[23:14] <mkopack> So let's HOPE Eben and Liz go out there SOON (like this week) and test some of the production boards before the Chinese get 10,000 coasters built and then we have to wait another month for them to fix the problem
[23:14] * inthetimeof (ada79aac@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
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[23:16] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:16] * jmontleon (jmontleon@nat/redhat/x-sgvkxumfgrymzsng) Quit (Quit: Done Sir Done!)
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[23:17] <mkopack> ok, quitting time??? Off learn "learn" about data structures (cough cough, holy hell beginner level class this is!)
[23:17] <mkopack> Take care all!
[23:17] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-133-175-40.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[23:22] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:24] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:cd37:f4d1:591b:2dcd) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[23:26] <ShiftPlusOne> yay... rain... an excuse to put off mowing the lawn for another day.
[23:26] * rafal_ (~rafal@ip-78-30-102-8.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:27] <traeak> woah
[23:27] <traeak> my lawn is utterly crushed with snow
[23:27] <tntexplosivesltd> !q
[23:27] <tntexplosivesltd> !w
[23:27] <PiBot> tntexplosivesltd: in Upper Hutt, Wellington. Temp 16??C. Condition: Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 77%.
[23:27] <traeak> 1.5m piles along my driveway
[23:27] <tntexplosivesltd> woah
[23:27] <traeak> hmm....if i had more slope it would make a good half pipe
[23:28] <traeak> well it snowed a half meters last friday
[23:28] <traeak> half meter even
[23:28] <traeak> heh
[23:28] <traeak> too bad the kids are sick, otherwise it would hvae been good sledding
[23:29] <ShiftPlusOne> forget the kids, go sledding yourself.
[23:31] <Da|Mummy> we're having 2nd hottest winter in history around here...
[23:31] <Da|Mummy> and youre going sledding?
[23:34] <traeak> heh
[23:34] <traeak> yeah you are right, should just go anyways
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[23:34] * peturi (petur@kofi.petur.eu) Quit (Quit: script stuff)
[23:34] <traeak> considering the best hill is in the next neighborhood
[23:34] <traeak> weather is all relative
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[23:40] <traeak> wow australia just labelled themselves a bunch of d#ckheads full body scanners at the airports?
[23:41] <traeak> geez, they've hugely backed off the scanners here in the US
[23:41] <tntexplosivesltd> lol it's pretty gay
[23:41] <ShiftPlusOne> balls
[23:41] <tntexplosivesltd> even us NZ-ers
[23:41] <tntexplosivesltd> we have almost free passage
[23:42] <tntexplosivesltd> but now they want to feel our balls
[23:42] <traeak> yeah
[23:42] <traeak> and frankly it ain't done jack here in the US other than allow idiots to feel you up and molest your kids
[23:42] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[23:42] <traeak> and it's pretty easy to sneak a gun past the scanner
[23:43] <traeak> duct tape it around your waist, full coverage and you get through
[23:43] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[23:43] * DexterLB (~angel@79-100-9-196.btc-net.bg) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:43] <tntexplosivesltd> traeak: you're from the US?
[23:43] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: ja
[23:44] <tntexplosivesltd> +1 for using metres
[23:44] <traeak> heh
[23:44] <traeak> because of what stuff i work on. anything else would be insane
[23:44] <tntexplosivesltd> awesome
[23:44] <traeak> radians, not degrees or gon (god forbid)
[23:45] <tntexplosivesltd> metres = sanity
[23:45] <tntexplosivesltd> traeak: gradians =D
[23:45] <tntexplosivesltd> there are 100 grads in 90 degrees
[23:45] <traeak> gon is another term for "gradians"
[23:45] <tntexplosivesltd> orly?
[23:45] <tntexplosivesltd> gon...
[23:46] <traeak> hmm...germanic languages use that term
[23:46] <tntexplosivesltd> are you originally from europe?
[23:47] * Martix (~martix@134.89.broadband12.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:49] <traeak> nah, born here, mother immigrated
[23:49] <traeak> heh
[23:50] <mrdragons> HOLY MOTHER OF GOD
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[23:50] <mrdragons> the boards will be finished on February 20
[23:50] <traeak> all right
[23:50] <traeak> can anyone
[23:50] <traeak> point me to the right direction for realistic terrain generation?
[23:50] <traeak> heeh
[23:50] <traeak> finished in 2 weeks
[23:51] <traeak> youch 205 page pdf
[23:51] <mrdragons> Youch? That's amazing
[23:52] <mrdragons> Much more info than I thought they were going to give
[23:53] * DexterLB (~angel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:54] <mrdragons> Like I can't express how much better this made my day
[23:54] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-138-163.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:54] <tntexplosivesltd> traeak: we wrote some pretty good terrain gen
[23:54] <tntexplosivesltd> hang on
[23:55] <tntexplosivesltd> http://www.openprocessing.org/visuals/?visualID=16679
[23:55] <tntexplosivesltd> traeak: ^^
[23:57] <traeak> tntexplosivesltd: i'm looking for something so i can build a simulation to verify precision, etc
[23:57] <tntexplosivesltd> mhm...
[23:57] <traeak> grr requires java
[23:57] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, I hate that
[23:58] <tntexplosivesltd> the guy who wrote that likes processing
[23:58] <tntexplosivesltd> we said no and are using C++
[23:58] <traeak> i always disable java on any machines i have
[23:58] <traeak> block the packages from installing

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