#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-02-13

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * MystX (~MystX@ec2-107-21-100-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:00] * nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:01] <MystX> tntexplo1ivesltd: lunch?
[0:01] <IT_Sean> lunch?
[0:01] <MystX> Lunch
[0:02] <IT_Sean> isn't it a little late for lunch?
[0:13] * caver (~eee@cpc10-rdng20-2-0-cust772.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:14] * ambro718 (~ambro@BSN-77-101-149.dsl.siol.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:14] <ambro718> Hi. Any info on how much the Pi will weight?
[0:14] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:15] <IT_Sean> Less than a duck.
[0:15] <Ben64> will it float on water?
[0:16] <IT_Sean> If you put it in a boyant container
[0:16] <IT_Sean> *bouyant
[0:16] <caver> I guess part of that would depend on how much you connect to it
[0:16] <IT_Sean> aye
[0:16] <caver> as the connectors will sort of add
[0:17] <ambro718> I'll weight those parse separately
[0:17] <IT_Sean> well, the raspi by itself will be light. It's a credit-card sized board, with some connectors onnit
[0:17] <caver> anyway as far as I know not much, but no hard data
[0:17] <IT_Sean> The best answer i can give you stands at "less than a duck"
[0:17] <ambro718> any estimate? I want to put it on an RC plane.
[0:18] <IT_Sean> how big of an RC plane?
[0:18] <ambro718> 1.2m wing span
[0:18] <ambro718> (I could make a bigger one)
[0:18] <IT_Sean> DINNER
[0:18] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:18] <mrdragons> Heh
[0:19] * Urokhtor (~urokhtor@dsl-jnsbrasgw2-ff66c000-211.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:19] <esotera> my friend wants to do the exact same thing
[0:19] <esotera> what would it do on the plane?
[0:20] <Ben64> be linuxy
[0:20] <ambro718> read video from camera, encode it and transmit over wifi
[0:20] <ambro718> also, maybe it would interpret the video and fly autonomously :)
[0:21] <esotera> wifi probably wouldn't have effective range for transmitting video
[0:21] <caver> you'd be suprised with the right aerial
[0:21] <Ben64> well if its flying it might work, line of sight is easier
[0:21] <ambro718> I know. If it's too little, I may make a directional antenna that rotates itself automatically
[0:22] <caver> anyway it's got to remain in contact with the controller
[0:22] <esotera> but you can get usb gps, which we've hypothesised might be useful in autonomous flight
[0:22] <ambro718> yes, gps would be a good idea
[0:22] <esotera> say, go fly over a neighbourhood, take pictures, then come back
[0:22] <caver> less than 200grams ... try asking on the forums
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[0:28] <ambro718> I'm judging less, given that this thing is 120g http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=ts-7800
[0:28] * akeeh (ak@dsl-trebrasgw1-fe4afa00-138.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] * Guest57436 is now known as DooMMasteR
[0:35] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:35] <caver> right sounds about right
[0:35] * Liam` (~quassel@ool-4a5ac74e.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:36] <caver> there simply aren't that many components on a pi board
[0:37] <caver> ouch at the price though!
[0:38] * Liam (~quassel@ool-4a5ac74e.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] <ambro718> yeah... it's also slow. Samba can barely handle 9MB/s... and it has gigabit ethernet
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[0:39] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:44] <caver> nods guess thats down to the speed of the flash device then
[0:44] <caver> have you got one?
[0:47] <ambro718> yes. And no, I was talking about samba reading from sata drive
[0:47] <caver> erk
[0:47] <ambro718> it just hogs up the CPU
[0:48] <caver> lack of DMA or something - I'm no expert
[0:48] <ambro718> I'm guessing I should try some plain transfer without the samba layer to see
[0:48] <ambro718> ok, thanks for the hint, I'll check
[0:49] <caver> hdparm on the device and see what it reports
[0:49] <hamitron> I get 13MB/s from my Celeron 2.53ghz on 100 mbit network ;)
[0:49] <caver> heheh try turning DMA off and see what you get
[0:49] <ambro718> hamitron: that's the 100mbit bottleneck, right?
[0:49] <caver> :P
[0:50] <hamitron> yeh it will be
[0:50] <hamitron> haha
[0:50] <Ben64> you can't get 13MB from 100mbit
[0:50] <hamitron> it does sound high doesn't it
[0:50] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@182-234.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:50] <ambro718> 12.5 you can
[0:51] <Ben64> but theres overhead so you can't really get 12.5 either
[0:51] <ambro718> less if you account for protocol headers
[0:51] <hamitron> optimistic windows dialog reading? ;)
[0:52] <hamitron> got 12 on another file
[0:52] <Ben64> http://xkcd.com/612/
[0:52] <Ben64> relevant
[0:52] <hamitron> haha
[0:52] <hamitron> yeh
[0:54] <hamitron> it is 12 or 13 anyway
[0:54] <hamitron> ;/
[0:55] <hamitron> windows 7 seems a lot better than estimates in previous versions of windows I used
[0:56] <hamitron> scp is sllllllllllooooooooowwwwwww
[0:56] <ambro718> try nc
[0:56] <Henchman21> turd sandwich
[0:56] <hamitron> tend to use nfs tbh
[0:56] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:57] <hamitron> and I never really copy loads anyway
[0:57] <hamitron> otherwise, I'd have got 1 gbit by now
[0:57] <hamitron> :)
[0:57] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-86-25-195-136.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:57] <ambro718> tar c ./folder | nc some_host some_port <-- the most efficient way to transfer files
[0:58] <Tachyon> heh, I'm throwing loads of data over NFS to my new NAS as we speak
[0:58] <Tachyon> it's taking quite some time -.-
[0:58] <Tachyon> been at it several days but my electricity bill will be smaller
[0:58] <Tachyon> as the NAS uses about 80W at full load, compared to 350W minimum for the server it's replacing
[0:59] <SpeedEvil> rsync
[0:59] <ambro718> I don't like NFS; it has too much Unix crap in it
[0:59] <Tachyon> both systems are running linux
[0:59] <Tachyon> I don't like toy operating systems so only this machine is running one
[0:59] <Tachyon> and I wouldn't even have this one if my MMO games would run in wine
[1:00] <hamitron> I use rsync for the update
[1:00] <hamitron> :)
[1:00] <Ben64> Tachyon: which one?
[1:00] <hamitron> oh damn games :/
[1:00] <Ben64> all my games work in wine
[1:00] <ambro718> they may work, but are likely too slow
[1:00] <hamitron> F1 2011 doesn't, Test Drive Unlimited 2 doesn't
[1:01] <Tachyon> star trek online, world of warcraft, perfect world, Shin Megami Tensei Imagine Online, Shaiya, Grand Fantasia etc.
[1:01] <Ben64> how can you play so many mmos
[1:01] <Tachyon> well, I move my fingers and my mouse and my avatar does things
[1:01] <hamitron> :)
[1:01] <hamitron> don't you work?
[1:01] <Ben64> do you have a job?
[1:01] <hamitron> :|
[1:01] <Ben64> lol
[1:01] <Tachyon> I work very well thankyou
[1:02] <Tachyon> I didn't say I played these games for vast periods of time
[1:02] <Tachyon> in fact they're lucky if they see a couple of hours/week each
[1:02] <hamitron> the only mmo I got dragged into was eve online.... but just don't like spending so much each month on something that takes ALL my free time
[1:02] <hamitron> ;)
[1:02] <Tachyon> additionally, what business is my employment of anyone in here?!
[1:03] <Tachyon> ghods
[1:03] <hamitron> hehe
[1:03] <Tachyon> actually that should have been my first thought
[1:03] <hamitron> we are just jealous we don't play so many ;)
[1:03] <Tachyon> only WoW costs money
[1:03] <ambro718> Skyrim runs perfectly 560GTX on Win7, but in Wine it's unplayable except on low detail, due to bad fps and the lags caused by the non-optimized shader translator
[1:03] <Tachyon> I bought ST:O when it came out but it was so disappointing I stopped paying after t2 months
[1:04] <Tachyon> but it's just gone free to play
[1:04] <hamitron> and has more content I heard
[1:04] <Tachyon> it's still almost as disappointing but I notice it less when I'm not opening my wallet every month
[1:04] <hamitron> yeh
[1:04] <mrdragons> I'm never going to buy linux again.
[1:04] <hamitron> free <3
[1:04] <Ben64> mrdragons: good
[1:04] <mrdragons> :P
[1:04] <Tachyon> I bought the collectors edition, I'm something of a trekkie
[1:04] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] <Tachyon> so every error really annoyed me
[1:04] <Tachyon> and trust me, there are many many errors
[1:05] <hamitron> I bought my slackware 13.37 dvd
[1:05] * hamitron likes collecting
[1:05] <Tachyon> the inside of DS9 does not even remotely resemble the inside of DS0 for a start
[1:05] <ambro718> some years ago I bought SuSE Linux 8, I think. It came with a ~600 page book :)
[1:05] <Tachyon> pre 1999 I bought a couple of slackwares
[1:05] <mrdragons> Oh cool
[1:05] <Tachyon> as downloading them over 56K wasn't so fun
[1:05] <Tachyon> but i['ve been on debian since 1999
[1:05] <SpeedEvil> I found my slackware 3.1 disk
[1:05] <hamitron> it supports the development too
[1:05] <Tachyon> I think it was slackware 2 and 3 I bought
[1:05] <Tachyon> came with sunsite discs and so on
[1:05] <SpeedEvil> I downloaded one
[1:05] <SpeedEvil> I don't remember which one
[1:06] <SpeedEvil> but it was 1.2.13 kernel
[1:06] <Tachyon> that was slackware 2
[1:06] <Tachyon> taht's the first one I bought
[1:06] <mrdragons> Daayyumm, 1.2.13? 0_o
[1:06] <Tachyon> it had 1.0.37 and 1.2.13 or something, if you felt braev you could use the 1.2 kernel
[1:06] <Tachyon> lol
[1:06] <hamitron> :)
[1:07] <mrdragons> Dunno why that's so surprising to me, heh
[1:07] <hamitron> I started on 2.0
[1:07] <hamitron> linux 2.0 kernel i mean
[1:07] <Tachyon> ah yes, I remember kernel 2.0 coming out
[1:07] <hamitron> I bought about 12 books on redhat linux, to get things working
[1:07] <hamitron> :/
[1:07] <Tachyon> ew, deadrat
[1:08] <Tachyon> what gets me is kernel 3 has been out for some time now
[1:08] <Tachyon> but no bugger is using it
[1:08] <Tachyon> anyone know what that's all about?
[1:08] <mrdragons> I'm using it. ?:(
[1:08] <Ben64> my laptop has 3.2 on it
[1:08] <Tachyon> oh right, odd
[1:08] <Tachyon> has there been a license change with 3.x or anything?
[1:08] <mrdragons> The latest ubuntu uses 3* too
[1:08] <mrdragons> Nope, it's just another number
[1:08] <hamitron> most my machines are still 2.4 ;)
[1:08] <Tachyon> ah well, I'm allergic to unity
[1:09] <Ben64> 3 was just for 3rd decade or something
[1:09] <Tachyon> everything here seems to be 2.6
[1:09] <SpeedEvil> I'm deeply annoyed I can't run a new kernel and get powersaving on wifi.
[1:09] <hamitron> :/
[1:09] <SpeedEvil> Some asshat pulled the powersave support from the driver, as it's broken for some.
[1:09] <Tachyon> I'd do a dist upgrade on the debian box but it's about to be decommissioned so no point really
[1:09] <Tachyon> ghods
[1:09] <hamitron> SpeedEvil, can't patch it?
[1:10] <hamitron> effort I suppose
[1:10] <hamitron> :)
[1:10] <hamitron> that is what annoyed me about debian/ubuntu
[1:10] <hamitron> I got so lazy, just using everything as provided
[1:11] <mrdragons> Same
[1:11] <mrdragons> Everything broke a lot more too, my lappy crashed 3-4 times a day under ubuntu
[1:11] <hamitron> oh, I never had that
[1:11] <mrdragons> At least 10.04
[1:11] <mrdragons> 11.* worked great
[1:12] <hamitron> 8.04 was the best
[1:12] <hamitron> :)
[1:12] <hamitron> not used one newer than 10.04 yet
[1:12] <SpeedEvil> In principle I could patch it back.
[1:12] <hamitron> so unity will be a fresh experience in 12.04 for me
[1:13] <Ben64> i have 10.04 on here, 12.04 on laptop
[1:13] <SpeedEvil> But that would take a fair bit of work, and it can never go upstream.
[1:13] <Ben64> i had to kill unity immediately
[1:13] <hamitron> I not tried KDE since 2.0, till now
[1:13] <mrdragons> Imo, unity isn't that bad, it's a fairly nice UI
[1:13] <hamitron> it has moved on somewhat
[1:13] <Ben64> mrdragons: for a tablet maybe
[1:14] <Ben64> i however, have a "mouse"
[1:14] <hamitron> LXDE is nice
[1:14] <Ben64> very precise
[1:14] <hamitron> :)
[1:14] <hamitron> reminds me of win95 days
[1:14] <mrdragons> Ben64: o rly? m 2
[1:15] <mrdragons> I just can't stand ubuntu, the system is far too cluttered. :P
[1:16] <hamitron> it is lazy mans OS
[1:16] <hamitron> :)
[1:16] <hamitron> clutter stays hidden if you don't look
[1:16] <mrdragons> OS's are for lazy men
[1:17] <hamitron> real men use hammers?
[1:17] <hamitron> ;/
[1:17] <mrdragons> Real men use butterflies.
[1:17] <hamitron> damn, keep forgetting to keep with the times :)
[1:18] <zutesmog1> I have always used xubuntu. And what a breath of fresh air compared with Redhat/Fedora. ALways had to many unresolved rpm dependancies.
[1:18] <hamitron> fedora is strange.... I hate it, but it feels more snappy than ubuntu
[1:18] * vandal- (~van@ip-37-85.zax.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:18] * bourbonphantom (~daniel@conr-adsl-209-169-66-107.consolidated.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:19] <zutesmog1> I find full gnome desktops just resource hogs whatever the OS. (I always had low spec'd laptops hence xubuntu.
[1:20] <zutesmog1> I don't like all the desktop effects etc..... Just want some text windows, browser(s) and lightweight ide.
[1:20] <hamitron> right now, I'm in a transitional period.... so unsure what I will start using :)
[1:21] <zutesmog1> If I was looking for a different distribution I now would look closely at Mint
[1:21] <hamitron> it use Gnome3?
[1:22] <hamitron> I think I'll probably use fluxbox or LXDE
[1:22] * caver (~eee@cpc10-rdng20-2-0-cust772.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:22] <hamitron> but will try more things first
[1:22] <hamitron> review the playing field
[1:22] <hamitron> :)
[1:22] <mrdragons> I'm probably going to stick with awesome wm, it's a really nice tiling manager
[1:23] <zutesmog1> I would be using the mint XFCE sitro
[1:23] <zutesmog1> /sitro/distro/
[1:23] <zutesmog1> never got the hand of tiling wm.
[1:24] <Thorn_> awesome is pretty good
[1:24] <Thorn_> use it on my penboot
[1:26] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
[1:26] <hamitron> never tried it
[1:26] <hamitron> I'll give it a go
[1:26] <hamitron> :)
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[1:29] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@ Quit (Changing host)
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[1:34] <mrdragons> Is it in the status of being out yet?
[1:35] * SpeedEvil hits mrdragons with an iron panda.
[1:38] <hamitron> :)
[1:43] <mrdragons> Hmm, should sauerbraten run as well as Qauke 3 on the rpi?
[1:44] <zgreg> probably not
[1:45] <zgreg> quake 3 is special because it's almost entirely gpu limited
[1:45] <zgreg> that's why it runs so well on the rpi
[1:49] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-rc1)
[1:49] <mrdragons> Hmm, too bad. Still would be interesting to see how well it runs.
[1:53] <hamitron> wonder how fast glxgears will run
[1:53] <hamitron> ;)
[1:55] <zgreg> it won't run at all
[1:55] <zgreg> there's neither glx nor opengl support
[1:56] <zgreg> heck, there isn't even basic 2d acceleration available at the moment
[1:58] <hamitron> oh, thought there was opengl es
[1:58] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:59] <Ben64> it has opengl es
[1:59] <zgreg> yes, there is
[1:59] <hamitron> can't glxgears be ported then?
[1:59] <zgreg> you can use opengl es 1.1/2.0 through egl, but that is very different from regular opengl
[1:59] <zgreg> sure. but it does not make sense to call it glxgears.
[1:59] <hamitron> true
[2:00] <zgreg> since there's no glx support
[2:00] <hamitron> :D
[2:00] <Ben64> i have gears on my android phone :D
[2:00] <hamitron> but I was thinking, more the performance of 3d for an app like that
[2:00] <hamitron> eglgears then
[2:00] <zgreg> e.g. there's no opengl es integration in X
[2:00] <hamitron> ;/
[2:01] <zgreg> I assume that will be a nice challenge, to get windowing system integration
[2:02] <hamitron> tbh, I'll be happy with full screen
[2:02] <hamitron> just so long as can run some 3d in fullscreen
[2:03] <hamitron> if I actually use it like that.... may just use it headless
[2:03] * mrdragons (~lucas@ Quit (Quit: brb)
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[2:28] <nrdb> can flash be used on the Rpi
[2:29] <Ben64> unlikely
[2:30] * zandubalm123 (~yogesh@host-76-11-183-243.newwavecomm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:30] <nrdb> there is this announcement http://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/26062.php
[2:31] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:34] <zgreg> nrdb: this mentions various devices. there is no general linux version available that works in standard x11 browsers, though
[2:34] <zgreg> moreover, flash only works on armv7
[2:35] <zgreg> rpi is armv6
[2:35] <zgreg> so, it's not just "unlikely", it's "no way"
[2:36] <nrdb> oh isn't that no good... :-(
[2:37] <Ben64> some open source project might be able to get flash working
[2:38] <ukscone> flash is a deadend anyway
[2:38] <nrdb> ukscone, why
[2:38] <ukscone> adobe is killing it for mobile devices
[2:39] <ukscone> they said in november flash for mobilees is dead
[2:39] <ukscone> thus on desktops it'll die to and good riddence
[2:39] <zear> nrdb, what do you need flash for?
[2:39] <zear> if just for .flv videos, then you could still easily play them
[2:39] <zear> without flash
[2:40] <nrdb> lots of websites use it... much to my dislike.
[2:40] <zear> that's what happens when you try to use closed standards
[2:40] <zgreg> Ben64: with very bad compatibility and even worse performance. so it's useless.
[2:40] <Ben64> i never said it'd be perfect
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[2:42] <nrdb> I suppose with no mobile devices using flash ... and there being more mobile devices ... most of the flash websites will have to change or be left out.
[2:46] <zgreg> Ben64: no, but useless is quite a bit worse than perfect. :)
[2:47] <Ben64> useless is quite a bit worse than functional
[2:47] * nrdb I agree with that
[2:47] <nrdb> It would probably require a far bit of machine code to make it go.
[2:48] <tntexplo1ivesltd> flash us just the worst when it comes to website
[2:48] <tntexplo1ivesltd> s
[2:49] <nrdb> yes.. but I have seen whole websites done in it.. they just load one big flash app for everything
[2:51] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:51] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ???_???
[2:51] <zgreg> so you're saying there are people out there that don't care if their website can be accessed and use sanely?
[2:52] <zgreg> well, I don't care about those websites :D
[2:52] <nrdb> first thing I do is go somewhere else.
[2:52] <zgreg> these things have become quite rare though
[2:53] <zgreg> I've seen such "pure flash" site the last time a few years ago
[2:54] <tntexplo1ivesltd> they are the worst sites in the world.
[2:54] <zgreg> sadly there is lots of legitimate flash content on the web, but it's getting better
[2:55] <zgreg> (sadly, because it's all going to become unaccessible when flash dies for good)
[2:56] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ah well, start learning HTML5 =P
[2:56] * tntexplo1ivesltd grumbles about adding state to the stateless web
[2:59] <hamitron> the web is just getting more and more complex
[2:59] <hamitron> I'm actually finding the web, the thing I need to upgrade my rig for :-o
[3:02] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB1F72.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:05] * uen (~uen@p5DCB2363.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:16] <zgreg> well, don't expect html5 video and the like to work on the rpi
[3:16] <zgreg> for now, this does not work
[3:17] <hamitron> I'll be using it for my own code only :)
[3:18] <hamitron> and I don't code such stuff
[3:18] <zgreg> just saying, i'm 150% sure people will complain about this
[3:18] <hamitron> ofc
[3:18] <zgreg> "but I saw it play 1080p!"
[3:18] <hamitron> :D
[3:19] <hamitron> tbh, if I wanted a cheap video player.... I'd get one of them cheap sumvision things
[3:19] <hamitron> I like to think I'm getting it for more educational reasons :)
[3:20] <zgreg> there's loads of people interested in rpi that have little understanding of how cpu vs. gpu vs. dsp work
[3:20] <zgreg> and then it goes like: old notebook cannot play 1080p. raspberry can play 1080p => rpi must be more powerful than old notebook
[3:20] <hamitron> it certainly seems to be getting a lot of interest, just as a cheap box to do stuff
[3:21] <hamitron> I'd like to see more people wanting to dev, all for a common set of hardware
[3:22] <hamitron> see what happens, etc
[3:22] <hamitron> :)
[3:27] * Threepio (~threepio@S0106001f5b009dd8.vs.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:32] <nrdb> first batch ready soon :-)
[3:33] <zgreg> don't hold your breath
[3:33] <nrdb> I think to get one I will need to be very quick.
[3:34] <hamitron> they are faulty
[3:34] * hamitron wonders if spreading this would increase his chances
[3:35] <zgreg> didn't you hear, it's been delayed until Q4
[3:35] <hamitron> which year? ;/
[3:35] <zgreg> 2045
[3:35] <hamitron> :))
[3:35] <zgreg> it's better to wait for the rhombus tech allwinner board anyway
[3:36] <hamitron> hmmm?
[3:36] * nrdb I think he is trying to have us on there.
[3:36] <zgreg> more powerful and more Free-er, and also more vapory
[3:37] * nrdb super-cooled steam
[3:38] <zgreg> http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/news/ <-- see, lots of progress!
[3:38] <nrdb> these look cool to http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox
[3:38] <zgreg> and no, the fact that there aren't any updates for about a month does not indicate that there is no progress!
[3:39] <hamitron> tbh, still tempted to get some fpga
[3:40] <nrdb> hamitron, what roll your own. btw most fpga chips are fairly expensive.
[3:40] <hamitron> nrdb, indeed
[3:40] <hamitron> just seems like cheating and pointless in some ways, having "another" comp
[3:41] <hamitron> unless a large community forms around a fixed hardware spec
[3:41] <hamitron> but I suspect most will jump product often, and get bored with them
[3:42] <nrdb> hamitron, A fpga with inbuilt arm processor would be something.
[3:42] <zgreg> well, Yet Another Development Board is not that great to have
[3:42] <zgreg> without a community around it, it's useless
[3:42] <hamitron> I wouldn't want ARM
[3:42] <hamitron> I'd be looking for something a little different
[3:42] <hamitron> maybe leon
[3:43] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[3:43] <zgreg> and by the way, if you didn't notice, everything I said about rhombus and the allwinner board was 100% sarcasm
[3:43] <nrdb> if we can get some good add-on card for the Rpi then many things will be possible.
[3:45] <ReggieUK> it's not even a Q
[3:45] <ReggieUK> whoops
[3:45] <ReggieUK> wrong window
[4:07] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-212-138-157.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[4:26] * Tobias| (~Tobias@unaffiliated/tobias/x-2050245) has joined #raspberrypi
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[4:27] * travalas_ (~ncharles@pool-108-49-55-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[4:27] * travalas (~ncharles@pool-108-49-55-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[4:28] * rm (~rm@fsf/member/rm) Quit (Ping timeout: 247 seconds)
[4:28] * jmissao_ (~jmissao@C1202.karlshof.wh.tu-darmstadt.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 247 seconds)
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[4:28] * jmissao (~jmissao@C1202.karlshof.wh.tu-darmstadt.de) Quit (Changing host)
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[4:29] * bourbonphantom (~daniel@conr-adsl-209-169-66-107.consolidated.net) has left #raspberrypi
[4:30] * MystX (~MystX@ec2-107-21-100-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[4:31] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[4:33] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit ()
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[4:36] <mrdragons> Lot of quits and joins
[4:43] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:52] * zandubalm123 (~yogesh@host-76-11-183-243.newwavecomm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[4:54] * zandubalm123 (~yogesh@host-76-11-183-243.newwavecomm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:23] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:30] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5626.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[5:37] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:38] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:41] * genbattle (~quassel@203-114-137-9.wir.sta.inspire.net.nz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:04] * MystX has his new xbox =D
[6:05] <MystX> With its guts out all over my desk
[6:09] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@CPE0017f2324fce-CM0012250096a8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:22] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) Quit ()
[6:37] * roman3x (~roman3x@adsl-dyn24.91-127-82.t-com.sk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:43] <rm> MystX, junk all the original boards and stuff, and make it into a fancy R Pi case
[6:44] <MystX> Lolno
[6:44] <MystX> Although i have 2 scrap 360 boards atm
[6:44] <MystX> They're going into a coffee table =D
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[7:19] * ksaua_ (~saua@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[7:57] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@CPE0017f2324fce-CM0012250096a8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[8:06] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[8:37] * Threepio (~threepio@S0106001f5b009dd8.vs.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
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[8:59] * shadowe989 (~shadowe98@74-32-105-114.dr01.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:11] * shadowe989 (~shadowe98@74-32-105-114.dr01.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[9:14] * shadowe989 (~shadowe98@74-32-105-114.dr01.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[9:35] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[9:41] * TSL (5b7ee6f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[9:43] * diplo (~diplo@cpc1-trow1-0-0-cust13.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:46] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:47] * KrimZon_2_ (~krimzon2@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[9:48] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:49] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:57] * Enoria (~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[10:01] * alyosha_sql (~a@93-103-9-223.static.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:06] <RaTTuS|BIG> !w
[10:06] <PiBot> RaTTuS|BIG: in Runcorn, Halton on Mon Feb 13 08:20:00 2012. Temp 7??C. Condition: Cloudy, Humidity: 87%, Later 7??C - 2??C. Condition: Chance of Rain.
[10:07] <huene> is it out yet?
[10:07] <PiBot> huene: The boards will be completed on February 20th.
[10:07] <huene> another week to wait
[10:08] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-0-231-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:13] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:14] * FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
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[10:28] * Mavy-bnc is now known as Mavy
[10:28] * Mavy (mavfree@ Quit (Changing host)
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[11:05] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[11:11] <hourd> morning
[11:26] <RaTTuS|BIG> \o
[11:37] * rodrigo_golive_ (quassel@nat/indt/x-evwvviirkzxlxlak) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
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[12:37] <Caver> interesting info on the X acceleration subject - http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/config-txt/page-4
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[12:42] <Davespice> ah
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[12:44] <Caver> ?
[12:45] <Davespice> nothing just reading the X driver stuff, that is something I would really like to see
[12:45] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:45] <Davespice> and it would make web browsing a lot nicer
[12:45] <Davespice> I have read an academic publication by a Samsung guy who describes how to make this driver
[12:45] <Davespice> "GPU-based X server on top of EGL and openVG"
[12:46] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:46] <Davespice> but the document is only two pages long, and is quite high level, mentiones that you have to convert between two co-ordinate systems and a few other useful pointers
[12:46] <Davespice> but no code examples
[12:48] <victhor> kinda sucks that there is no X support being that even PowerVR with its almost non-existent driver support has it
[12:48] <Davespice> I have a copy if anyone wants it
[12:48] <victhor> no GLX but TI says "DRI works"
[12:49] <Stskeeps> there is a x server that runs on top of egl/gles, i think
[12:50] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[12:51] <Davespice> Sts, might be worth a try then?
[12:51] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:51] <Caver> Stskeeps, I'd not heard of that one ... there's one that's on top of OpenGL (full) not the cut down OpenGL ES
[12:52] <Caver> got a link?
[12:52] <Davespice> send me a pm if anyone wants a copy of this PDF I have too
[12:53] <Stskeeps> wtf was the name.. sec
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[13:23] <Henchman21> SEVEN DAYS
[13:23] <Caver> I think reading that, the creation of a DDX that does the translation of Xlib instructions to opengl es instructions won't be hard to do
[13:24] <Henchman21> TICK TOCK TICK TOCK
[13:24] <Davespice> Caver, really?
[13:24] * Caver hands Henchman21 a paper bag to hyperventilate into :)
[13:25] <Davespice> It didn't look very helpful when I read it, but then I've not done any development down at that level before.
[13:25] <Caver> thats my take on it ... even if you did fairly dumb open gl es translations, it will be *way* faster than non accelerated mode
[13:25] <Henchman21> 168 hours
[13:25] * prebz (~prebz@c83-254-54-199.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:26] <hourd> Henchman21: until?
[13:26] <Henchman21> 10080 minutes
[13:26] <Henchman21> 604800 seconds
[13:26] <RaTTuS|BIG> they have been built then there is extra time berfore you can buy
[13:27] <Henchman21> 9676800 1/16 seconds
[13:27] <Space_Man> Henchman21: but which year???
[13:27] * nxo (~nxo@gateway/tor-sasl/nxo) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[13:28] <hourd> is this some countdown until rpi release?
[13:28] <Henchman21> cant wait to check the mail today
[13:28] * nxo (~nxo@gateway/tor-sasl/nxo) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:28] <Henchman21> oredered some tobacco nasal snuff
[13:28] <Ben64> http://2.ben64.com/rpi.html
[13:28] <Ben64> this is some countdown
[13:29] <Henchman21> ordered an SPA3000 the other night for asterisk fun
[13:30] <Caver> whats that?
[13:30] <Henchman21> been on an online shopping spree
[13:30] <Dagger3> ... flash. you'd think we'd be able to do a countdown in HTML/JS by now :/
[13:30] <Henchman21> FXO/FXS ports with ethernet
[13:30] <Ben64> Dagger3: i just made it : /
[13:30] <Henchman21> VoIP analog telephone interface
[13:30] <Ben64> was one of the top links in google
[13:32] <Henchman21> hook it upto the phone line, answer/route calls to asterisk
[13:33] <Henchman21> i tell ya some sales person made me cross the line
[13:33] <Henchman21> called daily for like 3 weeks, finally answer and they are trying to sell me junk
[13:33] <Henchman21> (i dont answer the house line often)
[13:33] <Caver> meh I just use my android phone talk to my asterisk setup
[13:34] <Caver> when ever I'm with in range of the Wifi .. it's connected
[13:34] <Henchman21> so im going to let asterisk be an intelligent voice machine for my house line
[13:34] <Henchman21> and screw with telemarketers
[13:35] <Ben64> Dagger3: better? http://2.ben64.com/rpi.html
[13:35] <Henchman21> constant interactive voice menus that screw up their choice detection on purpose, music on hold loops
[13:36] * tero (~0@aether.info) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:36] <Henchman21> like ill make it minumum somone has to wait like 3hrs to leave a message or something
[13:36] <Henchman21> XD
[13:37] <Dagger3> Ben64: yes. though it would be even better if the countdown actually worked too :p
[13:37] <Ben64> it does
[13:37] <Dagger3> (weird; it works in Nightly but not in Fx 3.6)
[13:37] <Ben64> Fx?
[13:37] <Dagger3> Firefox
[13:37] <Ben64> firefox 10 is out, get with the times man
[13:38] <Henchman21> if i had two lines, i contemplated getting asterisk to ask for their name/buisness department so it put them on hold and call them at the same time (connecting them to themselves) or complaining
[13:38] <Henchman21> that'd be fun
[13:39] <Henchman21> just general telecom shenanigans
[13:39] <Dagger3> I am with the times: I'm using the most recent version that doesn't suck
[13:39] <Ben64> 10 doesn't suck
[13:39] <jzu> and it's a LTS release
[13:40] <Ben64> "Mozilla Firefox 3.6 is a version of the Firefox web browser released in January 2010."
[13:40] <Ben64> over two years old ...
[13:41] <Dagger3> the >10 extensions I have in Nightly to fix crap they've broken since 4.0 suggest otherwise
[13:42] <Ben64> whats broken?
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[13:49] <Dagger3> they removed the status bar, RSS icon in the address bar and the back/forward dropmarker, changed the default image display to use a black background, no longer show canonicalized URLs in the address bar... the add-on manager is in-content and ugly... plus a few other things that bug me (e.g. removing all hint of color from the toolbars, moving check for updates to the about dialog)
[13:50] <Dagger3> tabs at least can be set to not be on top for the moment, but that option is going away at some point, and the options dialog is being moved in-content as soon as someone gets around to doing it
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[14:01] <victhor> um I don't think they will be sold on the 20th.
[14:01] <Caver> ditto
[14:02] <IT_Sean> and why is that?
[14:02] <victhor> They said they would finish manufacturing on the 20th, but then there's time to ship them back to the UK, set everything up, etc.
[14:02] <IT_Sean> ah.
[14:02] <IT_Sean> right.
[14:03] <IT_Sean> Should still have them on sale before the end of the month
[14:03] <Caver> I note in the forums it seems they're not going to bring them all to the UK it seems
[14:04] <IT_Sean> There are several distribution points.
[14:04] <Caver> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/how-do-i-buy-one-in-china
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[14:05] <Caver> not sure if it means they'll bring them all to the UK, test and sample of them, *then* send them out to the distribution points or what ...!
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[15:07] <brian__> Anyone catch the arduino shield breakout drawing, opens up worlds of possibilities http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/projects-and-collaboration-general/arduino-like-custom-breakout-board/page-2#p40877
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[15:21] <Caver> brian__, very nice!
[15:28] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:32] <brian__> I think I'm most looking forward to xbee mesh networking if someone does release this board
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[15:36] <Caver> mesh - wifi networks?
[15:37] * imnichol (~ian@somsen-128-152.winona.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:38] <brian__> yes and no, more for inter-robotic communication
[15:38] <Caver> ah ok!
[15:39] <brian__> it doesn't pass 'internet' data, just serial
[15:39] <Caver> I was just going to say you know it's not got wifi built in .. you'd have to add in a usb one
[15:39] <Caver> what kind of robots?
[15:40] <Caver> I was talking to someone before who was interested in the same, but seemed to think he'd need real time type OS on it
[15:41] <brian__> The goal is something along the lines of red3d craig reynolds esk steering behaviors, minimal robotic parts, infact possibly just two independantly powered wheels and one regular wheel
[15:43] <brian__> The information that they'll have to share is: position/velocity, acceleration, diretion/orientation, etc, so simple data
[15:44] <brian__> if you haven't already seen it: http://www.red3d.com/cwr/boids/
[15:44] * victhor (~victhor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:45] <brian__> it's slightly dated but that's fine, the simple logic and code is still valid
[15:50] <Caver> sounds like something you could rig up with a bunch of roomba's with a Pi strapped to each one!
[15:51] <Caver> ah 3d not 2d LOL
[15:51] <Caver> well half way there!
[15:53] <brian__> ohh not 3d, that's nonsense in terms of cost and such, I just can't afford like 20 quadrocoptors or the like, it would take institution based funding for something like that
[15:53] <brian__> If you can reprogram the roombas that would be great, except for the crazy upfront cost of them
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> brian__: wifi is probably _way_ cheaper
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> brian__: Pick an appropriate usb wifi stick
[15:55] <Caver> well you can pick up roomba's with broken cleaning gear boxes quite cheaply
[15:55] <brian__> Would it be possible to create a serverless distributed wifi mesh network with the RPs?
[15:55] <Caver> but you don't need that bit!
[15:56] <Caver> thats down to the programming really ... but yes in theory
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> brian__: yes
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> brian__: the easy way is just to use ad-hoc mode
[15:57] <brian__> I'm going to have to look into that, thank you caver / speedevil
[15:57] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-136-60.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> It means you can use ~$10 wifi, not ~$40 xbee
[16:00] <Caver> also true
[16:00] <brian__> Possibly multiple wifi modules, no? Not quite sure how a wifi based mesh works, ad hoc?
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:00] <brian__> currently reading through: http://www.iit.it/en/telerobotics-and-applications/projects/ad-hoc-mobile-robots-wireless-networks.html
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> ad-hoc is basically putting the interface into promiscuous mode.
[16:01] <Caver> correct .. in Adhoc mode, they can talk to anything in range on the same SSID
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> And just sending packets, and relying on TCP/IP to make the congestion OK
[16:01] <brian__> is it a single point to point connection? does one node have to act as a router?
[16:01] <Caver> nope
[16:02] <Caver> many to many
[16:02] <brian__> nice!
[16:02] <brian__> wonderful
[16:02] <Caver> just make sure they're not on the same IP address
[16:02] <brian__> again, thank you caver / speedevil
[16:02] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) Quit (Quit: Bye, see you later!)
[16:02] <Caver> depending how many you want, I think the robots side will cost quite a bit!
[16:02] <brian__> so do all wifi dongles support promiscuous mode?
[16:03] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> brian__: yes
[16:04] <brian__> eah, I have an american science and surplus store 5 minutes from me http://www.sciplus.com/ I can get almost anything there for below internet cost
[16:04] <Caver> assuming there are ARM linux drivers for them
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> and yeah - taht
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> Also important to you is power use
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, ad-hoc mode does not do powersave.
[16:05] <brian__> recommendation? lipo batteries + recharger is what I was thinking.
[16:05] <Caver> well up to a point I'm assuming you'd power it off a roomba, and the motors on those are going to consume way more power than the Pi + WiFi
[16:06] <Caver> just tap off the roomba's battery and use a voltage regulator
[16:06] * jmontleon (jmontleon@nat/redhat/x-phihudddaqpiudrr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:06] <brian__> again, I still think I am going to do it from scratch, no roomba, this is an initial learning project, and starting from the ground up is, for me, a better way to learn
[16:06] <Caver> http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=Using_20the_20Roomba some info on the subject
[16:08] <brian__> Is there a qemu debian based vm for the RP? something I can try and recompile any wifi mesh packages for arm.
[16:09] <Caver> http://cronicasredux.blogspot.com/2011/09/installing-and-running-debian-armel-on.html
[16:09] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:09] <Caver> http://elinux.org/RPi_Distributions - well there's the wiki ... have a look for yourself!
[16:09] * SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:10] <brian__> great stuff!
[16:10] <brian__> again, thank you.
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[16:10] * ctyler (~chris@global.proximity.on.ca) Quit (Quit: returning to Spare Oom)
[16:10] <Caver> that all ought to keep you out of trouble for the next few months!
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[16:12] * halagan (ada79aac@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
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[16:13] <brian__> yes.. it.. will... too much fun
[16:13] <Caver> :D
[16:14] <Caver> does anyone know if the Pi's serial connection is TTL 5V or 3.3 v?
[16:14] <Caver> I'd guess 3.3v as it comes from the SoD
[16:14] <Caver> *SoC
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[16:16] <Caver> SpeedEvil, do you know if the serial connection is 3.3v only?
[16:16] <Caver> I think it is
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> All the external lines are 3.3V I think.
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> Fortunately.
[16:19] <Caver> ok ... annoying but can't directly connect to the roomba serial, as it runs at 5V, how ever it's a well known problem
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> There are very cheap adaptors
[16:20] * djazz1 (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:20] <Caver> http://www.flickr.com/photos/todbot/89008228/in/set-72057594051313379 yeah ... it's been done many times
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[17:01] <ukscone> LOL just been going through an old notebook and just for chuckles i "checked" to see if the tied line passwd for a bank still worked. -- 25 years later and 3 reports about it & yes it does
[17:02] <Caver> ouch
[17:03] <Caver> that or you just tripped their honeypot
[17:03] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[17:03] <ukscone> nope they weren't that clever
[17:03] <Stskeeps> ukscone: time to transfer some money for a larger order of r-pi's
[17:04] <ukscone> Stskeeps: have to wait a few batches because i was always taught "never take a bank for less than 6 digits and never take them for more than 7 digits" so only worth it if i can order 250,000 raspi's give or take
[17:05] <Stskeeps> hehe
[17:06] <Caver> LOL ... and how did you come to that logical conclusion?
[17:06] <Caver> or is this the old superman 0.5 cent's idea
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[17:08] <ukscone> my mentor at the time yold me the bank thing. if you take less than 1,000,000 you don't have enough to give half back and keep the rest as a consulatant fee. if you take more than 9,999,999 then banks don't worry about little things like the law they WILL come after you and not worry about little things like human rights
[17:09] <ukscone> if you take between 1,000,000 and 9,999,999 you give half back and keep the rest as a consultant fee and most banks will go for that unless they have other problems like who really owns them
[17:09] <Caver> and you work for these guys, why?
[17:09] <ukscone> Caver: i worked in a bank in the 80s
[17:09] <Caver> ah
[17:09] <Caver> do you still have the red braces and a porche?
[17:09] <ukscone> and i was a security guy and my mentor was a top flight security guy
[17:10] <ukscone> Caver: i wasn't a merchant banker (yes the rhyming slang is correct) i was pc/network support and security
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[17:11] <Caver> grins ... I know I was teasing
[17:12] <ukscone> Caver: :)
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[19:32] <ShiftPlusOne> in various schematic and PCB layout software... what's the difference between a wire and a bus?
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[19:40] <traeak> heh
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[19:44] <customtronics> a bus is a group of wires with a common purpose such as address bus ; data bus
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[19:45] <ShiftPlusOne> so a bus on the schematic would have to be made up of several different traces?
[19:45] <ShiftPlusOne> (... on the pcb layout)
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:46] <customtronics> yes, the address bus signals would get grouped together, this saves space
[19:46] <customtronics> on the schematic
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> They would usually - not always - be grouped together on the PCB
[19:47] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, got it, thanks (excuse the noob question, I've always used wires)
[19:51] <Thorn_> i use trains
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[19:53] <Caver> coaches for me
[19:53] <koaschten> pigeons?
[19:53] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[19:53] <Caver> too dirty
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[19:54] <Caver> but enough about London Victoria
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[20:05] <zer0her0> unladen swallow?
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[20:07] <DaQatz> 42
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[21:38] <Thorn_> huh
[21:38] <Thorn_> is ukscone a ukscene reference?
[21:39] <ShiftPlusOne> what's ukscene?
[21:39] <Thorn_> c64 scene
[21:39] <Thorn_> from what im reading
[21:40] <ShiftPlusOne> ah
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[21:50] <ukscone> Thorn_: wash your mouth out right this instance -- commie64????? don't you dare associate me with such a piece of crap
[21:51] <Thorn_> oh you arent a zx speccy lamer are you
[21:51] <ukscone> the only use for a commie64 is to hold the door open if you don't have a brick
[21:51] <ukscone> nope not speccy lamer either
[21:51] <Thorn_> pfft
[21:51] <Thorn_> sid will kick your ass
[21:52] <hamitron> zx is cool ;/
[21:52] <ShiftPlusOne> don't be silly, ukscone is more of an abacus type of guy
[21:52] <ukscone> real computers don't worry about silly little things like sound and graphics
[21:52] <ShiftPlusOne> there you go
[21:52] <ukscone> that's just for the scriptkiddies and lusers
[21:52] <Thorn_> wasnt ukscone around before the abacus was invented?
[21:53] <ukscone> in my day we didn't even have 1's so out binary was 000000000000
[21:53] <Thorn_> i'm sure there's a "ukscone" engraved on the side of the antikythera mechanism :D
[21:53] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[21:54] <ukscone> you know stone henge?
[21:54] <Thorn_> ofcourse
[21:54] <ukscone> that was my attempt at an early version of angry birds
[21:54] <Thorn_> haha
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[21:59] <traeak> angry zombies would be cool
[21:59] <traeak> just like angry birds but the zombies "frag" or something on impact
[21:59] <traeak> custom zombie behaviours
[21:59] <traeak> hehe
[21:59] <ShiftPlusOne> >=/ I don't like it
[21:59] <traeak> why not ? :-p
[22:00] <ReggieUK> cos zombies are people too
[22:00] <traeak> heh
[22:00] <traeak> can't we just all get along ?
[22:00] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't think zombies can be angry
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[22:01] <traeak> okay cal it somethign else
[22:01] <traeak> an angry birds clone with tossed zombies instead
[22:01] <mrdragons> Yeah, zombies seem dead half the time
[22:01] <Thorn_> ha ha no :(
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[22:02] <ShiftPlusOne> until you find them nawing on your foot =/ that's how they get you
[22:02] <traeak> yeah
[22:02] <traeak> the addition of ragdoll physics to the angry birds engine would at least be cool
[22:03] <traeak> and everyone loves a zombie game
[22:06] <ShiftPlusOne> in principle
[22:07] <ShiftPlusOne> in practice they tend to suck
[22:07] <ShiftPlusOne> what's the one with the motorcyclist and the zombies and the game that sucks?
[22:08] <ShiftPlusOne> Dead rising 2
[22:09] <Thorn_> speaking of motorcyclists and things that suck (or in this case people)
[22:09] <traeak> zombies suck brains
[22:09] <Thorn_> http://i.imgur.com/fEgPY.jpg rofl
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[22:10] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, that doesn't suck, that's awesome
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[22:11] <ShiftPlusOne> just need some plate mail armour
[22:11] <traeak> nice shiny yammy, but riding a bike and holding a sword doesn't happen
[22:11] <Thorn_> sure it does
[22:11] <Thorn_> you just need the sword on your clutch hand ;p
[22:11] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.tensionnot.com/pictures/images/Motorcycle/Knight-Motorcycle.jpg
[22:11] <Thorn_> now that's epic
[22:13] <ShiftPlusOne> I think I saw one with a jousting lance as well
[22:14] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, so is that your bike, or what?
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[22:14] <Thorn_> wtf no
[22:14] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[22:14] <Thorn_> i am not a 21 stone nerd
[22:14] <hamitron> 25 stone?
[22:14] <hamitron> ;/
[22:14] <Thorn_> my bike is currently in the kitchen
[22:14] <hamitron> now that is cool
[22:15] <hamitron> ;)
[22:15] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, I was just treading lightly in case that was you =)
[22:15] <hamitron> don't think I'd get away with it
[22:15] <Thorn_> ShiftPlusOne: haha
[22:15] <Thorn_> my bike wouldn't carry a guy that heavy ;p
[22:15] <hamitron> :/
[22:15] <hamitron> what you got?
[22:15] <Thorn_> 125cc honda cbr rep
[22:16] * wirehead (~a@d154-5-144-145.bchsia.telus.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:16] <Thorn_> insurance went up so high i couldnt even afford a 2 stroke ;\
[22:16] <hamitron> mine keeps falling
[22:16] <Thorn_> what bike?
[22:16] <Thorn_> failing or falling? oO
[22:16] <hamitron> insurance keeps falling
[22:16] <hamitron> ;/
[22:16] <Thorn_> oh right
[22:16] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:6024:bef5:2cca:38c5) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:16] <Thorn_> my quotes rise about ??300 every month atm
[22:16] <hamitron> Suzuki GS125ES and Honda CB400N Superdream
[22:16] <Thorn_> have done for a few months
[22:17] <hamitron> wtf
[22:17] <Thorn_> oh right now i recall the CB400N you were talking about before :)
[22:17] <hamitron> mine is ?61.33 for 12 months
[22:17] * LiENUX is now known as LiENUS
[22:17] <hamitron> fully comp
[22:17] <Thorn_> mine is currently ??750 for third party
[22:17] <hamitron> I dunno what to say tbh
[22:17] <hamitron> :/
[22:17] <hamitron> just WTF
[22:18] <hamitron> you live in a city I assume?
[22:18] <Thorn_> nope
[22:18] <Thorn_> rural village
[22:18] <Thorn_> welllll
[22:18] <Thorn_> rural is a bit of an exageraiton
[22:18] <Thorn_> exageration*
[22:18] <Thorn_> but relatively small village far from any city
[22:18] <hamitron> I live in a rural village
[22:18] <hamitron> :)
[22:18] <Thorn_> :D
[22:19] <hamitron> my insurance quote for when living near uni in a city, was 3 times as much
[22:19] <hamitron> ?450 at the time
[22:19] <Thorn_> 450 for fully comp...
[22:19] <hamitron> yeh
[22:19] <Thorn_> that's pretty revolting tbh
[22:19] <Thorn_> (from my position atleast)
[22:20] <hamitron> it is ?61.33 now
[22:20] <hamitron> ;)
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> Makes many peoples car insurance look cheap though.
[22:20] <hamitron> but I do have 6 years NCB
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> err - expensive
[22:20] <Thorn_> SpeedEvil: most people round here are rapidly switching to bikes because car insurance shot up 200% in the past year
[22:20] <Thorn_> for most people, more than 200%
[22:20] <ShiftPlusOne> is insurance a legal requirement over there?
[22:21] <Thorn_> yes
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[22:21] <hamitron> Thorn_, I got mine through AVIVA through bennetts, maybe worth a look? :/
[22:21] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[22:21] <Thorn_> already checked bennetts
[22:21] <ShiftPlusOne> Over here there's no real harm in not having insuranse, so I've learned to do without.
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> In most cases, insurance for a youngish person will exceed the cost of a cheap functional non-rusty car.
[22:22] <ShiftPlusOne> *insurance
[22:22] <hamitron> well, value of the car doesn't really matter for 3rd party
[22:22] <mrdragons> Wait thorn_, where do you live?
[22:22] <Thorn_> central scotland
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> hamitron: Sure - I mean as an indicative
[22:23] <hamitron> SpeedEvil, ah :)
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> hamitron: 2000 quid for example
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> you can get a reasonablish car for under that
[22:23] <hamitron> Thorn_, poor drivers in scotland in recent years then? ;)
[22:23] <Thorn_> no we just always get the short end of the stick
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Scotland has had much lower insurance increases than england
[22:23] <hamitron> can get a Porsche 924 turbo for that
[22:23] <hamitron> :-o
[22:23] <Thorn_> SpeedEvil: that really, really depends what region
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> I mean in general
[22:28] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:6024:bef5:2cca:38c5) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:33] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:33] <hamitron> Thorn_, now you done it
[22:34] <hamitron> got me looking at bikes, cars and sidecars
[22:34] <hamitron> :/
[22:34] <Thorn_> ;p
[22:34] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:34] <hamitron> so much for a productive night \o/
[22:34] * Tardus (~Tardus@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:39] <Tardus> ?
[22:40] <Tobias|> Who parked their police box in my channel? :<
[22:41] <Tardus> any idea, how many people is on the waiting list for Rpi?
[22:41] <Tobias|> There's a waiting list? :3
[22:41] <Tobias|> #newstome
[22:43] <Tardus> which small 2x3 inch lcd TV will work as a display ?
[22:43] <Tobias|> Any with an HDMI port would, I assume
[22:44] <Tardus> Tobias|, think, that small screen tv (for portable use) may not have HDMI
[22:45] <Tardus> yet
[22:50] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:51] * Tardus (~Tardus@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:52] * Jaseman (5f93f112@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[22:53] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:53] <Jaseman> good evening everyone
[22:54] * wirehead (~a@d154-5-144-145.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:54] <ShiftPlusOne> 'lo, sir.
[22:54] <Jaseman> what's the topic of discussion today?
[22:54] <Jaseman> is there one?
[22:55] <ShiftPlusOne> something about anabacus, insurance and hdmi.
[22:55] <ShiftPlusOne> *an abacus
[22:55] <Jaseman> i see
[22:55] <Jaseman> i ordered a spare hdmi cable today from amazon
[22:55] <Thorn_> did you make sure to get a platinum plated one
[22:56] <Jaseman> its the first 'raspi' purchase ive made so far
[22:56] <Thorn_> you have to make sure the digital bits are happy when they get to the other side of the cable
[22:56] <Jaseman> i think its gold plated
[22:56] <Jaseman> it was pretty cheap
[22:56] <Thorn_> no no it has to be platinum
[22:56] <Jaseman> ??1.40 i think it cost
[22:57] * hamitron uses gold
[22:57] <Jaseman> why does it have to be?
[22:57] <Thorn_> 22:07 < Thorn_> you have to make sure the digital bits are happy when they get to the other side of the cable
[22:57] <hamitron> but I personally think it is all over rated, this plating
[22:57] <hamitron> :)
[22:57] <Thorn_> platinum makes the electricity happy
[22:57] <ShiftPlusOne> Jaseman, the skin effect, obviously.
[22:57] <ShiftPlusOne> and gives it a 'crisp' feel
[22:58] <Jaseman> well i reckon ill be quite happy with my cheap cable
[22:58] * jardiamj (~chatzilla@221-228-212-206-wiban.onlinemac.com) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120208060813])
[22:58] <Jaseman> ive been thinking about running up a fedora machine
[22:58] <hamitron> shouldn't there be less of a need for good connections, with digital, compared to analogue?
[22:59] <Jaseman> is fedora a good distro?
[22:59] <ShiftPlusOne> hamitron, take your logic elsewhere >=/
[22:59] <chris_99> haah
[22:59] <hamitron> noise on analogue is noise, noise on digital is corrected
[22:59] <hamitron> haha
[22:59] <hamitron> sorry
[22:59] * hamitron leaves
[22:59] <Jaseman> dont worry hamitron - i'm on your side
[23:00] <hamitron> \o/
[23:00] <Jaseman> i bet platinum boy is an audiophile
[23:00] <hamitron> tbh, I am very picky
[23:00] <hamitron> :/
[23:00] <hamitron> I buy loads of stuff, and see what sounds "best"
[23:01] <Jaseman> as long as i can make out an image on my monitor and some vague sounds then itll be fine
[23:01] <ShiftPlusOne> 'platinum boy' is mocking audiophiles
[23:01] <hamitron> well, I couldn't find a set of headphones cheap, with sound I liked AND a mic
[23:01] <hamitron> so i had to add my own mic :/
[23:02] <Jaseman> i need to try out fedora definately
[23:02] <Jaseman> since its the official distro
[23:02] <hamitron> I found fedora very snappy, compared to ubuntu
[23:02] <tntexplo1ivesltd> lol
[23:02] * NIN102 (~NIN@ Quit (Quit: NIN102)
[23:03] * solar_sea (~solar@78-83-114-137.spectrumnet.bg) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[23:03] <tntexplo1ivesltd> "I found bread quite giid, compared to poo"
[23:03] <Jaseman> is it going to have lxde?
[23:03] <tntexplo1ivesltd> * good
[23:03] <tntexplo1ivesltd> Jaseman: it has what you want
[23:03] <hamitron> tntexplo1ivesltd, haha, I was careful with my statement ;)
[23:03] <Jaseman> it has what i want eh
[23:04] <Jaseman> i want gnome, kde and lxde
[23:04] <hamitron> why shouldn't it have LXDE?
[23:04] <Jaseman> so all those will be pre-installed on the sd card will they
[23:04] <hamitron> oh, dunno about that ;/
[23:04] <Jaseman> exactly
[23:04] <hamitron> but stop been lazy? :/
[23:04] <tntexplo1ivesltd> why do you want all of them ._.
[23:04] <Jaseman> im talking about what will come on the sd card that they supply
[23:05] <Jaseman> i dont care about anyone's customized version
[23:05] <hamitron> I'd hope they provide a version with nothing
[23:05] <tntexplo1ivesltd> but that's the point, you use what you want
[23:05] <ShiftPlusOne> I'd hope it's just a minimal install without X or anything like that.
[23:05] <Jaseman> noooo
[23:05] <hamitron> ShiftPlusOne, spot on
[23:05] <hamitron> :)
[23:05] <ShiftPlusOne> then you can "yum install lxde" or whatever you want
[23:05] <Jaseman> it will have a gui
[23:05] <tntexplo1ivesltd> well yeah, most will be headless
[23:06] <hamitron> will wayland work?
[23:06] <Jaseman> i cant believe they are going to issue it without booting into a graphical system
[23:06] <Jaseman> that would be a huge mistake
[23:06] <ShiftPlusOne> Jaseman, that's rather subjective
[23:06] <Jaseman> they wont do it
[23:07] <hamitron> so is MS Windows.... but most comps come with it ;)
[23:07] <tntexplo1ivesltd> you can install your own, that's the point!!!!!
[23:07] <hamitron> it is only a case of dd'ing another image file :/
[23:07] <hamitron> isn't it?
[23:07] <Jaseman> if you switch it on and get a text based screen....
[23:08] <Jaseman> many beginners wont bother
[23:08] <ShiftPlusOne> hamitron, even less... just run the command to install whatever you want
[23:08] <tntexplo1ivesltd> I assume you'll get pre-rolled distros with all your nice buttons and stuff, but that's not the be-all and end-all
[23:08] <Jaseman> im not saying it is....
[23:08] <hamitron> ShiftPlusOne, command?
[23:08] <tntexplo1ivesltd> Jaseman: it's for learning programming, a lot of programming is just text
[23:08] <ShiftPlusOne> hamitron, "yum install ..."
[23:09] <hamitron> I assume you slam it on a SD card first, before booting it
[23:09] <hamitron> the prepared images I mean
[23:09] <ShiftPlusOne> well yeah 'course
[23:09] <Jaseman> you buy the sd car
[23:09] <Jaseman> card
[23:09] <Jaseman> you put it in and you swtich it on
[23:09] <tntexplo1ivesltd> you can use a blank one
[23:09] <Jaseman> grrrrr
[23:09] <tntexplo1ivesltd> and install whatever you wanty
[23:09] <tntexplo1ivesltd> * want
[23:10] <hamitron> I don't intend to use SD cards ordered, like Nintendo game cartridges :/
[23:10] <tntexplo1ivesltd> exactly
[23:10] <tntexplo1ivesltd> I like knowing what's on my system
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[23:10] <Jaseman> i guess you're not interested in building the educational model then
[23:10] <hamitron> sure I am
[23:11] <hamitron> they can first learn how to setup a proper OS ;)
[23:11] <tntexplo1ivesltd> edicational is subjective
[23:11] <Thorn_> and the subject is IT!
[23:11] * Thorn_ ducks
[23:11] <hamitron> if you start having different SD provided for every demand.... it will be even more complex knowing what to buy
[23:12] <Jaseman> well i wouldnt recommend that for beginners
[23:12] <ShiftPlusOne> Jaseman, do you expect an OSX-like system with clippy telling you exactly what to do?
[23:12] <Thorn_> haha
[23:12] <hamitron> clippy?
[23:12] <Jaseman> this computer is aimed at young children you know that right?
[23:12] <Thorn_> pfft
[23:12] <Thorn_> the kids can wait in line
[23:12] * hamitron is young at heart
[23:12] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah clippy... "It looks like you're writing a letter..." that guy
[23:12] <hamitron> Thorn_, haha
[23:13] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooP49OR8q0U
[23:13] <ShiftPlusOne> that
[23:13] <hamitron> ShiftPlusOne, oh, MS Word guy?
[23:13] <hamitron> :D
[23:13] <tntexplo1ivesltd> kids need to know about how a computer works too
[23:13] <Jaseman> but you dont want to scare them off before they even got started
[23:13] <hamitron> I think there are 2 ways to look at it
[23:13] <Jaseman> by diving them straight into installing an OS
[23:13] <hamitron> 1) can't underestimate their know-how
[23:13] <tntexplo1ivesltd> you don't want to bore them too
[23:13] <Thorn_> the adventurous wont be scared away by that
[23:14] <hamitron> 2) can't make it too hard, or they get bored
[23:14] <Thorn_> the ones that do get scared away are rif-raf anyway
[23:14] <hamitron> most will get bored anyway
[23:14] <hamitron> they have their Xbox 360s
[23:14] <Jaseman> they will if they follow your syllabus
[23:14] <hamitron> you haven't heard mine....
[23:14] <Jaseman> lesson one - start installing linux operating system from scratch
[23:15] <ShiftPlusOne> Jaseman, how do you propose you get around that? you need to have a level of curiosity. If you get scared by a terminal, how will you react when you see actual code? (I don't mean YOU, but people in general)
[23:15] <hamitron> I'd start with binary logic... ;)
[23:15] <Jaseman> why stop there?
[23:15] <Thorn_> i'd start with boolean algebra... ;)
[23:15] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p1-192.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:15] <ShiftPlusOne> Jaseman, nobody is asked to install linux from scratch, you copy the image onto the SD card... that's it.
[23:15] <Jaseman> why not have the build the raspberry too
[23:15] <hamitron> Jaseman, a future project
[23:15] * brian__ (ada79aac@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:15] <tntexplo1ivesltd> I guess Jaseman has never installed linux
[23:15] <hamitron> ;)
[23:16] * ReggieUK 's troll alarm goes off
[23:16] <Jaseman> lol
[23:16] <Jaseman> i installed it twice just yesterday
[23:16] <tntexplo1ivesltd> was it hard?
[23:16] <Jaseman> on a poweredge 1800
[23:16] <Jaseman> and also on a 1900
[23:16] <hamitron> tbh, just different audiences
[23:16] <Jaseman> it was a kubuntu live cd
[23:16] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ._.
[23:16] * hamitron sighs
[23:16] <tntexplo1ivesltd> that's not even installing linux preally
[23:17] <tntexplo1ivesltd> * really
[23:17] <Jaseman> our company uses debian
[23:17] <ShiftPlusOne> tntexplo1ivesltd, linuxfromscratch or nothing, ey?
[23:17] <Jaseman> command line only and they build it the hard way
[23:17] <tntexplo1ivesltd> yeah man
[23:17] <Jaseman> ive done it that way many times
[23:17] <Jaseman> and it sucks
[23:17] <Jaseman> setting up partitions
[23:17] <hamitron> I think a dedicated lfs (pi edition) book would be cool
[23:17] <Jaseman> setting up raid
[23:17] <hamitron> :)
[23:18] <Jaseman> untar all the tmp usr and var folders
[23:18] <mrdragons> I must be the only kid that finds computers interesting then.
[23:18] <Jaseman> thats just dull laborious crap
[23:18] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:18] <hamitron> but needed knowledge :/
[23:18] <Jaseman> if you want to engage youngsters.....
[23:18] <Jaseman> start off with some cool graphics
[23:18] <hamitron> like quake 3?
[23:18] <Jaseman> that they can play about with
[23:18] <Thorn_> ^ 1) ms paint
[23:18] <Thorn_> running in wine
[23:19] <Thorn_> oh wait ARM, nvm
[23:19] <ShiftPlusOne> or, don't insult their intelligence
[23:19] <Jaseman> polygons, circles, images
[23:19] <tntexplo1ivesltd> why are graphics needed? Kids can learn eother way
[23:19] <mrdragons> Or, you could start programming
[23:19] <tntexplo1ivesltd> * either
[23:19] <hamitron> I got bored of paint in 5 mins, when I was 8 years old
[23:19] <hamitron> :/
[23:19] <mrdragons> Graphics bore the hell out of me
[23:19] <tntexplo1ivesltd> yeah same
[23:19] <Thorn_> 5 minutes? you had a pretty long attention span :D
[23:19] <hamitron> Thorn_, I'm dedicated ;)
[23:19] <tntexplo1ivesltd> I found it more interesting making the computer do things
[23:19] <traeak> hmm...
[23:19] <traeak> too bad the IO is slow
[23:19] <Thorn_> was about a minute before i found an eraser and threw it at the teacher
[23:20] <Jaseman> well creating logical volumes bores the hell out of me
[23:20] <traeak> i *guess* using the rpi for linux install traning could be done using usb drives (install image + install target)
[23:20] <hamitron> the pi is never gonna impress a kid with graphics.... not got the power
[23:20] <hamitron> r-pi vs console...... :/
[23:20] <traeak> i'd guess that it is competitive with a wii, probably more so
[23:21] <Jaseman> the raspi is not competing with games machines
[23:21] <Jaseman> not yet anyway
[23:21] <Jaseman> and if it does it will lose badly
[23:21] <hamitron> it is if you target graphics effects
[23:22] <traeak> it depends on what level of gaming
[23:22] <traeak> it's not to compete with ps3/xb360
[23:22] <ShiftPlusOne> the raspi is not competing... at all. They have no competition... there is no other comparable product in that price range.
[23:22] <traeak> however considering the rpi is disposable
[23:22] <hamitron> the pi won't beat most new phones
[23:22] <hamitron> :/
[23:22] <traeak> neither will the wii
[23:22] <Jaseman> are you even going to buy the official sd card?
[23:23] <traeak> as far as we know this maybe could become a gaming console for those countries that don't have parents with deep pockets
[23:23] <mrdragons> I think it's necessary to realize you can't get every kid interested in computers, and trying to with the most basic and high-level things like graphics will just bore the ones that otherwise would have really been interested away
[23:23] <hamitron> mrdragons, exactly
[23:23] <Jaseman> well when i start my python lessons properly....
[23:23] <hamitron> I see the r-pi as a cheap device, for kids who would want to learn the proper stuff.... but don't have the resources for their own comp
[23:24] <Jaseman> i wont be teaching about how to count to 10 using a for loop as the first lesson
[23:24] <traeak> hmm...mrdragons the geek kid will surely excel from the rpi, but that's a very tiny minority and not the full target audience
[23:24] <traeak> dunno, those original programming classes for apple ][e's might be worth revisiting
[23:25] <Jaseman> i think im out of touch with the sort of person who can't afford to buy a second hand PC off ebay for ??100
[23:25] <hamitron> Jaseman, a lot can't afford ?100
[23:25] <Jaseman> i know
[23:25] <traeak> second hand PC is typically a maintenance nightmare that generally requires some OS to be installed on it
[23:26] <traeak> getting a second hand PC operable isn't magic
[23:26] <hamitron> r-pi is small enough to plug into the tv, without causing a mess too :)
[23:26] <Jaseman> yeah bring it to me and ill stick 32-bit win7 on it for ya
[23:26] <mrdragons> traek: I'm hardly a geek. :P
[23:26] <traeak> after you blow out the dust and fix the random hardware crashes ?
[23:26] <Jaseman> if you get an optiplex 755
[23:26] <traeak> and who's going to give you the money for win7 ?
[23:26] <Jaseman> reconditioned off ebay
[23:26] <Jaseman> you shouldnt have any bother
[23:27] <Jaseman> dont ask where i got the windows 7
[23:27] <traeak> Jaseman: nice trolling, perhaps you can find an irc channel where you can have this discussion
[23:28] <Jaseman> whatever
[23:28] <hamitron> I think it is just a different opinion imo
[23:28] <Jaseman> honestly i think most of the buyers of pi's will be us
[23:29] <mrdragons> I dunno, I think he has a decent point
[23:29] <Jaseman> not beginners at all
[23:29] <mrdragons> You can get an old IBM thinkpad for like $50 off ebay
[23:29] <Jaseman> ibm thinkpad's are crap though
[23:29] <traeak> initially the purchasers will be tech interested folks
[23:29] <traeak> and perhaps some way they will spread into school cirricula
[23:29] <hamitron> I do think the pi should try to grab the attention of proper geeks first.... there has to be decent content for it, before the newbs arrive
[23:29] <traeak> it's safe to say that the universities will probably pick up the rpi as a standard device
[23:30] <mrdragons> Jaseman: The imb ones were decent, the lenova ones are kinda meh
[23:30] <Jaseman> oh dont mention lenovo to me
[23:30] <traeak> that should be an easy sell to the university programs
[23:30] <Jaseman> we bought this company....
[23:30] <Jaseman> and inherrited a bunch of lenovo notebooks
[23:30] <traeak> thinkpad x120 x130 and x220 are crap ?
[23:30] <Jaseman> all of them were terrible
[23:30] <hamitron> I can't see them been pushed at uni tbh
[23:31] <Jaseman> the wireless always breaks on them
[23:31] <Jaseman> and they look really nasty too
[23:31] <Jaseman> plasticy
[23:31] <tntexplo1ivesltd> =/
[23:31] <Jaseman> and crash like hell
[23:31] <traeak> what do the universities have right now that do what the rpi might do for them ?
[23:32] <Jaseman> for ??70 you can get a nice intel core 2 desktop
[23:32] <mrdragons> Cheap dummy terminals, at least
[23:32] <tntexplo1ivesltd> traeak: can be used for embedded programming
[23:32] <traeak> yeah, but that's a normal computer, what about operating systems programming, hardware and robotics ?
[23:32] <Jaseman> there's always linux
[23:32] <hamitron> I feel the r-pi is maybe a little small and not so flexible
[23:33] <Jaseman> and you can buy robotic kits
[23:33] <traeak> tntexplo1ivesltd: exactly, which means a cheap commidity piece of hardware that can be used for embedded stuff
[23:33] <Jaseman> you can get OEM win xp for ??15
[23:33] <mrdragons> I fail to see how that would be better than pi though
[23:34] <Jaseman> well it will be a bit more expensive
[23:34] <traeak> it's not
[23:34] <Jaseman> and a lot more powerful
[23:34] <traeak> there's programming on the pi, and programming for the pi
[23:34] <hamitron> well, I'm considering alternatives to the r-pi ;/
[23:34] <Jaseman> for me the great think about the raspberry.....
[23:34] <Jaseman> very cheap
[23:34] <Jaseman> loads of people will buy one
[23:35] <traeak> and windows isn't "all that", it really gets in the way of learning about computers
[23:35] <Jaseman> and its standard hardware
[23:35] <mrdragons> hamitron: Like the allwinner. :P
[23:35] <tntexplo1ivesltd> "the great think"... ._.
[23:35] <hamitron> and uni doesn't need cheap.... it needs flexible
[23:35] <Jaseman> so you write a program on one and it will perform the same for everyone
[23:35] <tntexplo1ivesltd> hamitron: they need cheap too
[23:35] <traeak> mrdragons: treat the allwinner like vapor, go for the rpi and hope for the rhombust
[23:35] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:36] <hamitron> tntexplo1ivesltd, some boards in terms of functionality are cheaper than the r-pi
[23:36] <Jaseman> for me the raspi is so cheap that you may as well just buy one out of curiousity
[23:36] <hamitron> Jaseman, yeh
[23:36] <Jaseman> to play about with
[23:36] <tntexplo1ivesltd> hmm, yeah but I see the r-pi being used as a robotics platform in place of a microcontroller
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[23:36] <hamitron> microcontroller is cheaper
[23:37] <hamitron> and more educational to use
[23:37] <mrdragons> Jaseman: And easily set to a usable state if messed up
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[23:37] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:37] <mrdragons> You won't have to spend a bunch of time reinstalling and configuring the OS
[23:37] <Jaseman> for me reinstalling windows on a full pc is easy too
[23:37] <traeak> except its windows
[23:37] <Jaseman> so i dont see how raspi has an advantage there
[23:38] <mrdragons> But it takes time
[23:38] <mrdragons> Just reflash the card, and you're off
[23:38] <Jaseman> put the cd in....
[23:38] <mrdragons> And lolwindows
[23:38] <hamitron> r-pi has nothing to do with devices that run windows imo
[23:38] <Jaseman> set it running, go and eat your dinner
[23:38] <tntexplo1ivesltd> I'm talking about in place of an embedded sustem, whoch a lot of things use
[23:38] <Jaseman> come back and its done
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[23:38] <mrdragons> Or, put the SD card in a computer, and have it working again in 15-30 seconds
[23:38] <tntexplo1ivesltd> more complicated robotics platforms
[23:39] <Jaseman> you dont have to reinstall your OS that often that its a big deal
[23:39] <tntexplo1ivesltd> where an FPGA is way expensive
[23:39] <Jaseman> i dont even have anti virus installed and i still only reinstall my windows once a year
[23:39] <mrdragons> If you're messing around with the system you're destined to mess it up
[23:39] <hamitron> FPGA is only 50 quid?
[23:39] <mrdragons> "only"
[23:39] <hamitron> yeh, only o.o
[23:39] <Jaseman> raspi is not THAT cheap
[23:39] <traeak> mrdragons: sadly sd cards take a bit longer than that to reimage (fully)
[23:40] <Jaseman> unless you just happen to have the right opwer suplpy unit already
[23:40] <traeak> who in here has a cellphone from the last 3 years? hehe
[23:40] <Jaseman> and happen to have a hdmi tv or a dvi monitor
[23:40] <Jaseman> not all phones have the right adapter
[23:40] <traeak> the display is kind of a stickler as well
[23:40] <tntexplo1ivesltd> hamitron: and USB is becoming more desired =/
[23:40] <mrdragons> You could say the same thing about a 2nd hand computer
[23:40] <Jaseman> my sony erricson wont power a raspi
[23:41] <mrdragons> You might have to replace parts, get a new monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc
[23:41] <traeak> Jaseman: europe pretty much demanded microusb as the phone power connector
[23:41] <Jaseman> well i dont have one
[23:41] <Jaseman> and i expect many other people dont have one
[23:41] <traeak> they are extremely ubiquitous everywhere
[23:41] <Jaseman> although its only a few quid to buy one anyway
[23:41] <traeak> that's what standards do
[23:41] <tntexplo1ivesltd> and cheap too
[23:41] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ninja'd
[23:42] <mrdragons> So they'll have to shell out $10 max for a microusb charger
[23:42] <mrdragons> So what
[23:42] <Jaseman> and an sd card
[23:42] <mrdragons> that's required peripherals
[23:42] <traeak> stupid mall kiosks will overcharge you willing for that charger
[23:42] <traeak> hehe
[23:42] <Jaseman> so its not really ??22
[23:42] <Jaseman> all in all
[23:42] <hamitron> how much is delivery?
[23:42] <hamitron> just thought
[23:42] <hamitron> :)
[23:42] <Jaseman> and VAT
[23:43] <mrdragons> That's the dumbest and possibly the most infuriating argument I've heard from /.
[23:43] <Jaseman> it will cost you ??50 i reckon
[23:43] <Jaseman> not including the screen
[23:43] <traeak> basically the thing to do is wait and see what becomes of the rpi because i guarantee it has some sort of future ahead of it
[23:44] <Jaseman> yeah i get that impression too
[23:44] <Jaseman> theres something about this project
[23:44] <Jaseman> its gonna be BIG
[23:44] <traeak> best case is it starts a rash of these type super cheapo computers
[23:44] <mrdragons> People just love cheap things. :P
[23:45] <Jaseman> and there will be so many arguements born out of it too
[23:45] <traeak> and "desktop" computers become full commodity
[23:45] <hamitron> and lower requirements for software targeting it? :D
[23:45] <traeak> hopefully...software bloat has gotten irritating
[23:45] <Jaseman> well maybe we will realise we dont actually need more powerful machines
[23:45] <hamitron> yeh
[23:46] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) Quit (Quit: ??????)
[23:46] <hamitron> and my i586 machines will have some new software to compile \o/
[23:46] <Jaseman> in fact we need less powerful ones
[23:46] <tntexplo1ivesltd> unless gaming
[23:46] <Jaseman> less is more
[23:46] <traeak> depends on the gaming
[23:46] <mrdragons> Gaming has some of the worst bloat out there
[23:46] <traeak> i don't necessary care about crysis, etc
[23:46] <RITRedbeard> software bloat
[23:46] <Jaseman> i reckon a raspi could keep up with a nintendo DS
[23:47] <tntexplo1ivesltd> gaming will always demand better hardware
[23:47] <RITRedbeard> need to write some raspi specific games
[23:47] <Jaseman> on gaming
[23:47] <RITRedbeard> quake I engine with modification looks mighty impressive folks
[23:47] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p1-192.molalla.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:47] <hamitron> software bloat and increased requirements, are cheaper than employing more coders to cover the extra work required :/
[23:47] <traeak> nope, rpi shoud beat up a wii nicely
[23:47] <traeak> a DS is a massive POS as is the 3ds
[23:47] <RITRedbeard> considering that half-life(goldsrc) was made on mostly quake I code
[23:47] <RITRedbeard> with fixes supplied by Id with their knowledge of stuff for Quake II
[23:47] <Jaseman> POS?
[23:47] <hamitron> piece of....
[23:48] <victhor> current nintendo consoles have way too underpowered hardware
[23:48] <RITRedbeard> point of sale
[23:48] <Jaseman> i see
[23:48] <Jaseman> well they still sell plenty of them
[23:48] <RITRedbeard> next nintendo console will have AMD/ATI part in it.
[23:48] <victhor> because they cost less
[23:48] <Jaseman> so they did something right
[23:48] <RITRedbeard> Yummy yum yuM!
[23:48] <victhor> uh gamecube and wii have "graphics by ATI" on their cases
[23:48] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ???_???
[23:48] * stcuser (~Yogesh@host-76-11-181-29.newwavecomm.net) has left #raspberrypi
[23:49] <hamitron> anyone had experience with the AMD APU?
[23:49] <victhor> I kinda like that concept of weak hardware. You need to work harder to make stuff work there
[23:49] <hamitron> victhor, yeh, I code on my P120 for this ;)
[23:49] <Jaseman> buy an old 8-bit then
[23:49] <Jaseman> youll be sick of it in 10 minutes
[23:50] <traeak> victhor: i certainly hope it doesn't force unreasonable optimizations
[23:50] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-xuxdvfquplqzhphw) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:50] <mrdragons> Why buy old? You can still buy new ones. ^_^
[23:50] <RITRedbeard> no experience coding for the APU
[23:50] <RITRedbeard> but there is an API and such
[23:50] <victhor> nintendo's own games don't look too bad, so it seems it isn't that bad
[23:50] <victhor> 3rd party games otoh... :/
[23:50] <hamitron> RITRedbeard, wasn't thinking coding
[23:50] <Jaseman> if sinclair relaunched the spectrum 48k
[23:50] <hamitron> RITRedbeard, more just how they perform
[23:50] <Jaseman> people would buy them
[23:50] <RITRedbeard> they perform amazingly
[23:50] <RITRedbeard> look at the 7xxx series
[23:51] <RITRedbeard> there is a reason why bitcoin'ers want em
[23:51] <hamitron> looking at this one: http://www.ebuyer.com/337140-asus-x53z-laptop-x53z-sx052v
[23:51] <RITRedbeard> amongst other things
[23:51] <hamitron> I don't mean GPU
[23:51] <RITRedbeard> oh
[23:51] <hamitron> :/
[23:51] <RITRedbeard> APU
[23:51] <RITRedbeard> the APUs are good
[23:51] <RITRedbeard> they spank the shit out of Intel APUs
[23:51] <hamitron> I got GPU for my bitcoining ;)
[23:51] <RITRedbeard> check notebookreview
[23:51] <traeak> if that's relevant
[23:51] <RITRedbeard> or anandtech bench
[23:52] <hamitron> benchmarks I have seen
[23:52] <RITRedbeard> sure, doesn't the Intel integrated APU actually copy of the Videocore?
[23:52] <hamitron> just like real recommendations
[23:52] <RITRedbeard> I have no personal experience but in the words of the guy from Men's Wearhouse
[23:52] <hamitron> well, I'm comparing a comp with an APU, to a comp with a CPU and dedicated GPU
[23:52] <RITRedbeard> you're gonna like the way it calculates. I guarantee it.
[23:53] <hamitron> may treat myself after some more research
[23:53] <hamitron> :)
[23:53] <Jaseman> My BSPU is going into overload
[23:53] <hamitron> BSPU?
[23:54] <Jaseman> bull **** processing unit
[23:54] <hamitron> :)
[23:54] <tntexplo1ivesltd> benchtop PSU =P
[23:54] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ph
[23:54] <tntexplo1ivesltd> read that wrong
[23:54] <tntexplo1ivesltd> never mind me
[23:54] <hamitron> I'm sort of glad it wasn't that
[23:55] <hamitron> fear of embarrassment
[23:55] <hamitron> ;)
[23:55] <tntexplo1ivesltd> lol
[23:56] <hamitron> I should clear out all my old comps
[23:56] <hamitron> and buy new electronics gear
[23:56] <Jaseman> how many are there?
[23:56] <RITRedbeard> 19.
[23:56] <tntexplo1ivesltd> 201
[23:56] <RITRedbeard> The average age of the soldier in vietnam was 19.
[23:56] <hamitron> well, got 23 comps
[23:56] <tntexplo1ivesltd> man...
[23:56] <hamitron> ;/
[23:56] <hamitron> but 5 are newish
[23:56] <Jaseman> I've got at home....
[23:56] <Jaseman> 2 desktops
[23:56] <Jaseman> 2 netbooks
[23:56] <Jaseman> 1 laptop
[23:57] <tntexplo1ivesltd> how can you have 23?
[23:57] <Jaseman> and 1 PS3
[23:57] <hamitron> tntexplo1ivesltd, I hord them :/
[23:57] <tntexplo1ivesltd> heh
[23:57] <Jaseman> all the computers are old
[23:57] <Jaseman> desktops are optiplex gx280
[23:57] <Jaseman> laptop is hp pavillion dv something
[23:57] <hamitron> I think 15 of my comps are i586
[23:57] <hamitron> :/
[23:58] <Jaseman> and the netbooks are asus eeepc's
[23:58] <hamitron> but they work, so hard to throw away
[23:58] <Jaseman> well the laptop is a bit poorly since my wife poured a glass of pepsi max into it
[23:58] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ???_???
[23:58] <hamitron> shame on her
[23:58] <Jaseman> it crashes quite a lot since then
[23:58] <hamitron> waste of pepsi :/
[23:59] <Jaseman> it still works most of the time....
[23:59] <tntexplo1ivesltd> speaking of destroying laptops...
[23:59] <Jaseman> it just does odd things sometimes
[23:59] <hamitron> Jaseman, the wife or the laptop?
[23:59] <hamitron> :|
[23:59] <Jaseman> oh dont even go there
[23:59] <tntexplo1ivesltd> everyone seen that vid of the guy shooting his daughters laptop?
[23:59] <tntexplo1ivesltd> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/10/it_bloke_shoots_daughters_laptop/

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