#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-02-14

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <Jaseman> in new zealand they often shoot their old servers
[0:00] <Jaseman> for target practice
[0:00] <tntexplo1ivesltd> we don't have firearms
[0:01] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:01] <tntexplo1ivesltd> our laws here are strict and sane
[0:01] <Jaseman> i hate cruelty to computers
[0:01] <tntexplo1ivesltd> it's rare for anyone to have a gun here
[0:01] <tntexplo1ivesltd> afk
[0:01] <Jaseman> just think of all those poor pc's out there forced to run on vista or worst still 'millennium edition'
[0:01] * jmontleon (jmontleon@nat/redhat/x-phihudddaqpiudrr) Quit (Quit: Done)
[0:02] <hamitron> tntexplo1ivesltd, where you from?
[0:02] <Jaseman> wales
[0:02] <hamitron> nvm
[0:02] <Jaseman> and i dont have guns either
[0:02] <RITRedbeard> he hails from mississippi
[0:03] * RITRedbeard shrugs
[0:03] <hamitron> I have a few air riffles, but only my Dad has a shotgun
[0:03] <hamitron> :/
[0:03] <hamitron> never had a reason to have one
[0:03] * hamitron is an Englander
[0:03] <RITRedbeard> come to camden or philadelphia
[0:03] <RITRedbeard> you'll have plenty of reason
[0:04] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[0:04] <Jaseman> is the show robotwars still going?
[0:04] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:04] <hamitron> man that is well old, I hope so
[0:04] <hamitron> :)
[0:04] <hamitron> not seen it
[0:04] <hamitron> :/
[0:04] * Shy (Shy@pdpc/supporter/professional/shy) Quit ()
[0:05] <Jaseman> i think there should be a raspi version of robot wars
[0:06] <Jaseman> you can only use the gert board and the raspi as controllers
[0:06] <RITRedbeard> yeah
[0:07] <RITRedbeard> anyone with an arduino gets beaten
[0:07] <Jaseman> someone should connect a flame thrower to a raspi definately
[0:07] <Jaseman> i want to see melted raspi's
[0:07] <RITRedbeard> you're going to bake/solder your raspberry pi
[0:07] <RITRedbeard> and put it on the kitchen windowsil to cool
[0:07] <RITRedbeard> and I'm going to steal it.
[0:07] <RITRedbeard> Just giving you a heads up.
[0:07] <Jaseman> im going to put mine in a toastie maker
[0:08] <Jaseman> with a slice of cheese on top
[0:08] <hamitron> I'll cut mine into slices, and sell them for charity..... if there is a demand
[0:08] <Jaseman> then im gonna eat it
[0:09] <Jaseman> just think of all the people who have never heard of the raspberry
[0:09] <Jaseman> you could set up a stall on the street
[0:09] <Jaseman> and sell them
[0:09] <RITRedbeard> ?_____?
[0:09] <RITRedbeard> most people aren't interested
[0:10] <Jaseman> they will be when you have your demo model
[0:10] <RITRedbeard> as much as we'd like to think how much computing power you can get for $35 USD the average aren't interested
[0:10] <Jaseman> with some games and xmbc on it
[0:10] <RITRedbeard> they want things in shiny WHITE plastic boxes
[0:10] <Jaseman> well put it one then!
[0:10] <RITRedbeard> that are "magical"
[0:10] <Jaseman> and double the price
[0:10] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:10] <RITRedbeard> I wonder if Apple is working on arm based OS?
[0:11] <Jaseman> apple wont be interested in it
[0:11] <Jaseman> its too low powered
[0:11] <RITRedbeard> Reminds me of that scene in Hackers.
[0:11] <RITRedbeard> RISC is sooo good!
[0:11] <RITRedbeard> This laptop has the R6, it is six times as fast as the Pentium!
[0:11] <RITRedbeard> Bit of a joke then, still kinda is but ARM might hit real big.
[0:12] <RITRedbeard> You figure I can do most of my tasks on the Pi.
[0:12] <Jaseman> in mission impossible 1 they had a line like that
[0:12] <hamitron> the Apple Pi will launch next year for $450
[0:12] <hamitron> ;/
[0:12] * Lewmar (~Lewmar@gateway/tor-sasl/lewmar) Quit ()
[0:12] <Jaseman> something about a 586 with a RISC processor
[0:13] <Jaseman> yeah its exactly the same as a normal rasberry pi but the power cable and hdmi cables are white
[0:13] <victhor> apple likes to brag about the battery life of their laptops. With ARM they can say that the battery "lasts for up to 24 hours"
[0:13] <RITRedbeard> literally
[0:13] <RITRedbeard> at full load
[0:13] <victhor> :P
[0:13] <RITRedbeard> on a 2400mAh battery
[0:13] <RITRedbeard> I have no doubts in my mind.
[0:14] <RITRedbeard> Apple laptops are fragile.
[0:14] <Jaseman> i wont be surpirsed if blackberry don't try to sue them
[0:14] <Jaseman> because the name is similar
[0:14] <mrdragons> I heard a rumor of Apple working on an ARM version of osx
[0:15] <RITRedbeard> then they aren't as dumb as I thought if it is a true rumor.
[0:15] <Jaseman> what does ARM stand for?
[0:15] <RITRedbeard> osx/darwin is good candiate to port to ARM, assuming as a business model you can extrapolate and port your normal applications or find a niche to sell it
[0:15] <RITRedbeard> Always Reading Manual
[0:16] <Jaseman> advanced risc machine
[0:16] <mrdragons> g: ARM processor definition
[0:16] <RITRedbeard> As opposed to... MIPS? :)
[0:16] <mrdragons> Hmm, is PiBot on now...?
[0:16] <Jaseman> i think it was a bit pretentious to say it's advanced
[0:17] <mrdragons> At the time it was really advanced
[0:17] <mrdragons> You know, for risc
[0:18] <victhor> I thought the A stood for "Acorn"
[0:19] <Jaseman> advanced reduced instruction computing machine
[0:19] <RITRedbeard> Google Gets EU Approval To Buy Motorola
[0:19] * nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:19] <RITRedbeard> It looks like that $12.5 B Google-Motorola deal just got approval from the EU as well as the U.S. Department of Justice.
[0:19] <RITRedbeard> via [H]ardOCP
[0:19] <RITRedbeard> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1673237
[0:19] <Jaseman> instruction set that is
[0:20] <Jaseman> its a rubbish name
[0:20] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
[0:20] <mrdragons> One more step towards world domination for google
[0:20] <mrdragons> As long as they keep making cool things I'm fine with this. :P
[0:20] <Jaseman> yeah i dont get it
[0:21] <traeak> right now google is the least evil of the "triumvirate"
[0:21] <Jaseman> why is it when a company is successful....
[0:21] <traeak> for now at least...
[0:21] <RITRedbeard> Google is the enemy.
[0:21] <Jaseman> people criticise it as trying to ctake over the world
[0:21] <traeak> i'd say apple is the #1 enemy out there
[0:21] <traeak> followed by microsoft
[0:21] <Jaseman> jealousy
[0:21] <RITRedbeard> Apple is the enemy.
[0:21] <mrdragons> Really, apple?
[0:21] <RITRedbeard> Microsoft is meh.
[0:21] <traeak> both apple and MS are trying to extort stuff from google
[0:21] <Jaseman> just admire all of them
[0:21] <RITRedbeard> Google is the enemy.
[0:22] <Jaseman> they have more money than you do
[0:22] <traeak> microsoft is extorting money from android handset manufacturers over BS patents
[0:22] <Jaseman> and are smarter than you are
[0:22] <RITRedbeard> Actually, they hire people like me.
[0:22] <traeak> apple just wants to sue to stop anyone from manufacturing android smartphones
[0:22] <Jaseman> be content with that knowledge
[0:22] <RITRedbeard> And they're involved in everything and track everything.
[0:22] <traeak> apple uses BS patents for that as well
[0:22] <RITRedbeard> If you have a gmail account I can log in right now and look at your browsing history.
[0:22] <RITRedbeard> By default.
[0:23] <RITRedbeard> Now with Google - if they own Motorola they're gonna pull the same job RIM did.
[0:23] <traeak> i've noticed that google's desire to track has started to get ouf of hand
[0:23] <RITRedbeard> That RIM job? That they did with India?
[0:23] <Jaseman> rim job - ewwww!
[0:23] <RITRedbeard> Allowing the govt to listen in?
[0:23] <RITRedbeard> Yeah.
[0:23] <traeak> hopefully consumers start to punish google for this stupidity
[0:23] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:23] <RITRedbeard> We don't want no more RIM type jobs.
[0:23] <Jaseman> lol
[0:23] <traeak> can you say that MS hasn't done the same ?
[0:24] <mrdragons> RIM job?
[0:24] <RITRedbeard> MS has done anything similar to RIM? Ehhh... not that I'm aware of.
[0:24] <RITRedbeard> They're guility for anti-trust.
[0:24] <Jaseman> get over it
[0:24] <RITRedbeard> Google is just in everything.
[0:25] <RITRedbeard> Data mining is a pretty serious thing now.
[0:25] <Jaseman> you probably loved google when it was the underdog
[0:25] <RITRedbeard> My university offers a couple courses on it.
[0:25] <Jaseman> now they got big you hate them
[0:25] <RITRedbeard> I loved Google when they weren't sketchy as hell.
[0:25] <RITRedbeard> It has nothing to do with corporate loyalty, you're blind.
[0:25] <RITRedbeard> My university's IT department ditched their expensive exchange setup for Google Apps.
[0:26] <Jaseman> i respect apple, microsoft, google - all those guys
[0:26] <traeak> google has offered a way out from underneath MS's monopoly
[0:26] <Jaseman> they were very successful
[0:26] <mrdragons> Yeah, they have gotten a bit out of hand with the information collection
[0:26] <traeak> yup, google is starting to fall based on that
[0:26] <traeak> i put ICS 4.0 on this tablet
[0:27] <Jaseman> if you dont like it - dont use it
[0:27] <mrdragons> But they make so many cool things. ;_;
[0:27] <traeak> fired up the browser and poof, they ask to start associating your web browsing with your email account
[0:27] <traeak> the answer from that is to run opera or something
[0:27] <mrdragons> And I don't use google most of the time lol, I use duckduckgo
[0:27] <Jaseman> i dont like chrome
[0:27] <Jaseman> my browser of choice is Firefox
[0:27] <traeak> this tablet is the one that can run kde plasma
[0:27] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-rc1)
[0:28] <Jaseman> MS made a right shambles with Internet Explorer.....
[0:28] <Jaseman> when you set it up it asks you a million questions
[0:28] <mrdragons> And to think google started off as just a small search engine
[0:28] <traeak> MS has been fully reactionary now for *years*
[0:28] <Jaseman> do you want to use recommended sites
[0:28] <Jaseman> do you want to check from updates
[0:29] <Jaseman> do you want do this and that and the other
[0:29] <Jaseman> no i dont! leave me alone!
[0:29] <hamitron> IE 8 and 9 seem ok....
[0:29] <traeak> hehe
[0:29] <mrdragons> Lol internet explorer
[0:29] <RITRedbeard> not talking about browser
[0:29] <mrdragons> It's not that it's microsoft; it's genuinely an inferior browser
[0:29] <RITRedbeard> just in general
[0:30] <hamitron> I think firefox and chrome are over rated tbh
[0:30] <Jaseman> and I absolutely loathe hydranas - and BING
[0:30] <RITRedbeard> I wouldn't trust my wife to be my attorney and the finances and all that business
[0:30] <hamitron> but I agree with what RITRedbeard said above mostly
[0:30] <hamitron> :)
[0:30] <Jaseman> ive never really used Bing
[0:30] <Jaseman> but i jsut know that i hate it
[0:30] <hamitron> I don't find bing works for me
[0:30] <Jaseman> Bing is the devil
[0:31] <hamitron> but the new google doesn't
[0:31] <hamitron> :/
[0:31] <mrdragons> It's just a google clone, except it's crap
[0:31] <Jaseman> i dont even like the word 'bing'
[0:31] <RITRedbeard> they should call it Cherry
[0:31] <Jaseman> it reminds me of ned ryerson from groundhog day
[0:31] <traeak> hmm....ms's bait and switch silverlight, .nyet
[0:31] <mrdragons> lol
[0:31] <Jaseman> do you sell insurance? - bing!
[0:32] <traeak> reactions to flash and java ... long after the fact
[0:32] <Jaseman> i wish people would quit winging about flash
[0:32] <traeak> and it seems both technologies go on life support
[0:34] <Jaseman> next yuoll be arguing over whether avi is better than mpeg
[0:34] <Jaseman> or mp4
[0:34] * nighty^ (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] <mrdragons> That's entirely debatable.
[0:34] <RITRedbeard> h264 in an mkv container is the best
[0:34] <RITRedbeard> duh
[0:34] <RITRedbeard> anyway, I don't know about search engines
[0:34] <Jaseman> lol
[0:35] <Jaseman> but it doesnt have a nice name so....
[0:35] <Jaseman> h264!
[0:35] <traeak> heh, i know folks who will argue that mp4 is better than mkv as a container
[0:35] <Jaseman> its just never going to be cool
[0:35] <RITRedbeard> those folks should be shot
[0:35] <RITRedbeard> then hung
[0:35] <Jaseman> mkv is not a cool abreviation either
[0:35] <RITRedbeard> then run over with land rover
[0:36] <Jaseman> mpeg sounds like some grany from the 1950's
[0:36] <RITRedbeard> with this ACTA/DMCA/SOPA business pretty soon everyone should be using tor and have encryption on everything
[0:36] <RITRedbeard> with their public key
[0:36] <Jaseman> mpeggy sue, mpeggy sue
[0:36] <Jaseman> mpeggy,,,,,
[0:36] <RITRedbeard> TRUST NO ONE.
[0:36] <Jaseman> oh i love you girl and i love mpeggy sue
[0:37] <mrdragons> RITRedbeard: Quite
[0:37] <Jaseman> only the paranoid ones
[0:37] <Jaseman> i couldnt give a crap about privacy or security
[0:38] <RITRedbeard> Could you give a piss?
[0:38] <Jaseman> all that matters is - backup
[0:38] <mrdragons> What field of IT are you in Jaseman?
[0:38] <RITRedbeard> lol, IT
[0:38] <hamitron> I prefer mp4 to mkv :/
[0:38] <Jaseman> im the in the field of system administration
[0:38] <hamitron> means I don't have to install extra stuff ;)
[0:38] <RITRedbeard> IT - I Tried
[0:39] <Jaseman> in other words tech support
[0:39] <RITRedbeard> See?
[0:39] <mrdragons> Heh
[0:39] * tero (~0@aether.info) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:39] <RITRedbeard> CS - Constantly Studying
[0:39] <RITRedbeard> EE - Enormous Eunuch
[0:40] <traeak> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z0VMI67a4Y
[0:40] <mrdragons> I don't think they're /all/ fat. :P
[0:40] <Jaseman> today i had to help a man set his power options so that when he closes the lid on his laptop it didnt shut down because he's using a docking station
[0:40] <Jaseman> thats the kind of thing i do on a daily basis
[0:40] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-136-60.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:40] <hamitron> Eunuch?
[0:41] <RITRedbeard> Yep.
[0:42] <RITRedbeard> university jokes, I guess.
[0:42] <RITRedbeard> we constantly take the piss out of the IT kids
[0:42] <hamitron> what you study? ;/
[0:42] <hamitron> or did you
[0:42] <Jaseman> i assist 'id ten t's'
[0:43] <RITRedbeard> although a proper system administrator is a life saver
[0:43] <RITRedbeard> Computer science, I study.
[0:44] <Jaseman> what are id ten t's you ask
[0:44] <hamitron> the ones who studied computing stuff when i was there, lacked experience in proper stuff like C
[0:44] <hamitron> just used java more
[0:44] <mrdragons> Like the ones that have massive beards
[0:44] * nighty^ (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:44] <Jaseman> ID10T'S
[0:44] <RITRedbeard> Although in a college with three floors we are on the top floor and IT below us... same floor as interactive media/game design
[0:45] <RITRedbeard> heh heh
[0:46] <RITRedbeard> hamitron, it happens
[0:46] <RITRedbeard> I like our CS program, it cuts out all non-hackers.
[0:46] <RITRedbeard> if you can't hack the program, you usually transfer to another
[0:46] <RITRedbeard> like IT
[0:46] <RITRedbeard> heh heh heh
[0:46] <hamitron> I did electronics, so never had much time for java
[0:46] <hamitron> ;)
[0:47] <Jaseman> i like that username
[0:47] <Jaseman> hamitron
[0:47] <hamitron> same
[0:47] <hamitron> :))
[0:47] <hamitron> used it for over 15 years now \o/
[0:48] <Jaseman> makes me think of a pig on a light cycle
[0:48] <hamitron> although, some fool is using it alongside me now
[0:48] <hamitron> :/
[0:48] * hamitron curses
[0:49] <hamitron> I got a new name designed
[0:49] <hamitron> :)
[0:49] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:49] <Jaseman> do you have a logo as well?:
[0:49] <hamitron> I don't do colours or graphics ;/
[0:50] <Jaseman> oh yeah - text only
[0:50] <RITRedbeard> Did you mean: colors?
[0:50] <RITRedbeard> sorry I was pulling a Google :)
[0:50] <hamitron> I mean colours
[0:50] <hamitron> hhaha
[0:50] <Jaseman> no he meant colours
[0:50] * hamitron drops google
[0:50] <RITRedbeard> zoot allures!
[0:50] <Jaseman> as in the english word that americans cant spell properly
[0:51] <RITRedbeard> american sign language is my second language
[0:51] <RITRedbeard> no need for spelling
[0:51] <traeak> Jaseman: just face it, the french royally screwed english up a LONG time ago
[0:51] <RITRedbeard> except maybe fingerspelling
[0:51] <RITRedbeard> :)
[0:52] <Jaseman> it doesnt matter....
[0:52] <traeak> http://www.englishclub.com/english-language-history.htm
[0:52] <Jaseman> as long as we understand each other lets not get hung up on specifics
[0:52] <traeak> this page claims american english is closer to shakespeare's english than modern british
[0:52] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[0:52] <traeak> :-p
[0:52] <hamitron> way I look at it.... I am right, and it is the job of others to get somewhere near ;)
[0:53] <Jaseman> we'll all be speaking in python eventually
[0:53] <mrdragons> RITRedbeard: I know sign language too! :D
[0:53] <mrdragons> We should speak in brainfuck.
[0:53] <hamitron> that is cool
[0:53] <hamitron> :)
[0:53] <Jaseman> we shouldnt speak at all
[0:53] <RITRedbeard> ASL or ESL?
[0:53] <mrdragons> ASL
[0:53] <mrdragons> Different things. :\
[0:53] <RITRedbeard> cool :)
[0:54] <mrdragons> Oh wait, you're not from europe?
[0:54] <RITRedbeard> going to RIT and Rochester in general has the highest per capita of deaf and HH folks
[0:54] <RITRedbeard> No.
[0:54] <Jaseman> right im going to bed now
[0:54] <mrdragons> Oh yeah, colors. Derp.
[0:54] <mrdragons> Nite
[0:54] <Jaseman> keep working at solving the world's problems
[0:54] <RITRedbeard> colors
[0:54] <RITRedbeard> :)
[0:54] <Jaseman> see you later
[0:54] <RITRedbeard> night-o
[0:54] <mrdragons> I'm going to start solving world hunger
[0:55] <traeak> time for the europeans to go night night i guess
[0:55] <Jaseman> cuhluhz
[0:55] <mrdragons> By getting myself something to eat
[0:56] <Jaseman> ="#00000"
[0:56] <RITRedbeard> yer-rope-ians.
[0:56] <Jaseman> that's racist
[0:56] <Jaseman> but ="#ffffff" is ok
[0:56] <tntexplo1ivesltd> hamitron: I'm from New Zealand
[0:57] <RITRedbeard> He's Maori.
[0:57] <RITRedbeard> He'll cut you.
[0:57] <traeak> europeans; the most proficient group of people on earth at exterminating each other
[0:57] <traeak> :-p
[0:57] <Jaseman> who says they are most proficient?
[0:57] <hamitron> bring it on ;/
[0:57] <tntexplo1ivesltd> RITRedbeard: nope, fuck being maori
[0:58] <mrdragons> Both world wars started in europe
[0:58] <traeak> heheh
[0:58] <tntexplo1ivesltd> also how do you know about maori? Americans don't usually know
[0:58] <RITRedbeard> france started the second one
[0:58] * traeak puts his troll hat on for fun
[0:58] <Jaseman> what about the cruisades?
[0:58] <RITRedbeard> I am not your average American.
[0:58] <traeak> who cares about the crusades ?
[0:58] <tntexplo1ivesltd> RITRedbeard: go on...
[0:59] <Jaseman> nobody
[0:59] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ir do you just read wikipedia pages =D
[0:59] <RITRedbeard> About not being average or France starting the second World War?
[0:59] <Jaseman> i dont care about anything before 1978
[0:59] <tntexplo1ivesltd> not being average
[0:59] <traeak> i can say with authority the germans started WW2
[0:59] <RITRedbeard> History is a hobby of mine.
[0:59] <traeak> now i could say the europeans set it up with their desire to enslave teh german population
[0:59] <traeak> that usually doesn't end well and didn't
[0:59] <RITRedbeard> So is culture and epistemology.
[1:00] <tntexplo1ivesltd> I see -_-
[1:00] * Jaseman (5f93f112@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[1:00] <hamitron> traeak, no, the germans just didn't do as they were told ;)
[1:00] <RITRedbeard> Treaty of Versailles.
[1:00] <RITRedbeard> And that's game.
[1:01] * nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] * patmahon__ (quassel@nat/nokia/x-qegggcbemmmjeeqq) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:03] <hamitron> oh christ
[1:03] <hamitron> so much email
[1:03] <hamitron> :/
[1:03] <hamitron> think I've subscribed to too much
[1:03] <hamitron> 2501 emails I want to read
[1:03] <hamitron> ;)
[1:12] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] * patmahon (quassel@nat/nokia/x-fujuypclrkvlmasr) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[1:14] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:17] <ctyler> Rasberry Pi Fedora Remix 14 Release Event in Toronto, Feb 22 - everyone is welcome: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/distributions/fedora-arm-on-raspberry-pi/page-2#p41041
[1:17] <mrdragons> Oh cool. Would go if I could. ^_^
[1:18] <hamitron> does fedora use gnome3 as default now?
[1:18] <mrdragons> Also, lol at one-star reviews on this: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Linux-Kernel-Third-Daniel/dp/0596005652
[1:18] <mrdragons> "This book explained too much"
[1:18] <mrdragons> Is pretty much what they're saying
[1:18] <hamitron> haha
[1:19] <victhor> They would have said "This book is too simple" instead if it were simplified.
[1:19] <hamitron> I'd love to have the time to move into that
[1:19] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ._.
[1:19] <tntexplo1ivesltd> people are idiots
[1:19] <mrdragons> It's like, if you wanted an overview of operating system kernels, you start with a book on the concepts of an operating system
[1:20] <mrdragons> It's an awesome book btw, I plan to buy it soon
[1:20] <tntexplo1ivesltd> "archaic 'C' code"
[1:20] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ...
[1:20] <tntexplo1ivesltd> archaic
[1:20] <tntexplo1ivesltd> archaic
[1:20] <hamitron> he wants java ;/
[1:20] <tntexplo1ivesltd> becuase no-one uses it these days...
[1:21] <victhor> but java is as fast as C! :P
[1:21] <hamitron> it can be learnt faster? ;)
[1:21] <tntexplo1ivesltd> =D
[1:21] <tntexplo1ivesltd> we;; yeah, but its skills can't be applied anywhere else XD
[1:21] <tntexplo1ivesltd> * well
[1:21] <victhor> I met a Java fanboy who swore he could get the benchmark results on ANY condition on the programs he wrote.
[1:22] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-188-84.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:22] <tntexplo1ivesltd> did he take starting the VM into account?
[1:23] <hamitron> linux kernel code scares me
[1:23] <hamitron> :/
[1:23] <victhor> the benchmarks with those results consist of simple mathematical tasks... the JIT compiler on the VM is good at things like that
[1:23] <mrdragons> It's massive. 0_0
[1:23] <tntexplo1ivesltd> it is pretty overwhelming
[1:23] <victhor> but when you get to things it isn't optimized for... crap happens.
[1:23] <hamitron> mrdragons, lets stay on the subject of IT thanks ;)
[1:23] <tntexplo1ivesltd> victhor: lol that;s true
[1:23] <tntexplo1ivesltd> mrdragons: that's what she said...?
[1:24] <mrdragons> Sorry, I can't help myself, somethings big things just slip out.
[1:24] <victhor> so, in reality, Java isn't as fast as C... unless you want a Java calculator with CLI.
[1:24] <tntexplo1ivesltd> =D
[1:24] * hamitron uses minecraft as proof
[1:24] <hamitron> ;D
[1:24] <victhor> I tried explaining that but... can't reason with fanboys.
[1:24] <tntexplo1ivesltd> nope, it's pointless
[1:25] <victhor> he argued he was a "computer scientist" and that I "shouldn't argue" with him. :/
[1:25] <tntexplo1ivesltd> as a few here have realised
[1:25] <victhor> I didn't know CS courses were that bad.
[1:25] <tntexplo1ivesltd> oh i hate those people
[1:25] <hamitron> this is what I commented on earlier
[1:25] <mrdragons> victhor: That's just ignorance
[1:25] <hamitron> ome CS guys really think this
[1:25] <tntexplo1ivesltd> there's a comp sci guy fresh out of uni here, only ever done java
[1:25] <hamitron> :/
[1:25] <victhor> he's too stubborn. I quit arguing with him over java. :/
[1:25] <tntexplo1ivesltd> he's kinda not good at programming in general
[1:26] <hamitron> there does seem to be a lot of jobs in coding java atm
[1:26] <victhor> I told him minecraft was slow and inefficient because it was made in java. He said that it was "poorly programmed"
[1:26] <tntexplo1ivesltd> well, both
[1:26] <victhor> while I think it is true, it wouldn't be any better if it were well written, because it still is in java...
[1:27] <tntexplo1ivesltd> hamitron: yeah, that's a shame. Wo do C and python here
[1:27] <tntexplo1ivesltd> had to tell him that <> was the same as !=
[1:27] <victhor> the only thing java is good at is portability... everything else is just horrible.
[1:27] <hamitron> yeh
[1:27] <hamitron> :/
[1:28] <hamitron> I would like to upgrade my knowledge from C to C++ sometime though
[1:28] <hamitron> :)
[1:28] <tntexplo1ivesltd> then go back to C because it's in some ways better then C++
[1:29] <hamitron> got a few books for it, but just get lost and cba with it
[1:29] <tntexplo1ivesltd> but then again, the right tool for the job etc
[1:29] <hamitron> yeh
[1:29] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:29] <hamitron> although, am considering javascript more now
[1:30] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ._.
[1:30] <mrdragons> EwEwEw
[1:30] <hamitron> haha
[1:30] <tntexplo1ivesltd> you're kidding
[1:30] <tntexplo1ivesltd> good one
[1:30] <hamitron> just for high level messing around
[1:30] <hamitron> ;/
[1:30] <hamitron> no, I haven't actually bought some books on it
[1:30] <hamitron> :)
[1:30] <hamitron> have*
[1:31] <hamitron> more as a separate interest to proper programming
[1:31] <mrdragons> I need money to buy books; I'm too easily distracted reading pdfs. :\
[1:31] <hamitron> yeh, I just read some each day, when I am "engaged"
[1:32] <tntexplo1ivesltd> lol
[1:32] <tntexplo1ivesltd> "proper programming"
[1:32] <hamitron> sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone btw
[1:32] <hamitron> haha
[1:32] <mrdragons> I'm so offended right now, chatting about programming languages
[1:32] <mrdragons> :P
[1:33] <tntexplo1ivesltd> mrdragons: you jelly?
[1:33] * hamitron notes mrdragons likes javascript
[1:33] <hamitron> ;)
[1:33] <mrdragons> >_>
[1:34] <mrdragons> /bin/sh: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"'
[1:34] <mrdragons> /bin/sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
[1:34] <mrdragons> Huh
[1:35] <mrdragons> Oops
[1:35] <mrdragons> Is it out yet
[1:35] <PiBot> mrdragons: The boards will be completed on February 20th.
[1:37] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:38] <hamitron> :)
[1:39] <hamitron> completed and ready to start moving to the UK?
[1:42] <hamitron> wonder if the r-pi will clash with RACE: Injection :/
[1:42] <hamitron> not gonna know what to do with myself \o/
[1:43] <mrdragons> I'm probably going to be so excited I'll forget to actually buy one
[1:43] <Tachyon`> hrm, does that mean I'll be able to order one o nthe 20th?
[1:44] <hamitron> Tachyon`, you got the site for that other thing? so I can order 1 for myself to play with
[1:44] <hamitron> :)
[1:44] <Tachyon`> there is no site, only an email address but since there's still not been enough interest you can try if you want, one sec, I'll find it for you
[1:45] <hamitron> ok, ty
[1:45] <Tachyon`> if I could afford it I'd just buy 16 and sell them on afterwards but I just don't have the cash spare todo that
[1:46] <hamitron> yeh, I wouldn't want to buy 16 tbh
[1:57] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@248-73.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[2:19] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[2:23] * urokhtor (~urokhtor@dsl-jnsbrasgw2-ff66c000-211.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:38] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[3:02] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB3D9C.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:03] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[3:05] * uen (~uen@p5DCB1F72.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[3:39] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:42] * mrdragons yawns
[3:50] <RITRedbeard> We have a crisis.
[3:50] <wiiguy> ?
[3:50] <wiiguy> crisis ?
[3:51] <RITRedbeard> Kahlua = gone.
[3:52] <wiiguy> okay ?
[3:52] * MT`AwAy (~MagicalTu@w001.de.eu.xta.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:52] * MT`AwAy is now known as Guest91531
[3:52] * Guest91531 is now known as MagicalTux
[3:52] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@w001.de.eu.xta.net) Quit (Changing host)
[3:52] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:52] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) Quit (Excess Flood)
[3:53] <RITRedbeard> What do you mean "Okay?"
[3:53] <RITRedbeard> Are you one of those mentally challenged tea drinkers?
[3:53] <wiiguy> i dont drink tea
[3:53] <tntexplo1ivesltd> oh god, no-one cares, RITRedbeard
[3:54] <mrdragons> And that's the problem with the world today
[3:54] <tntexplo1ivesltd> "hurr durr look at how much I drink man. Am I cool yet>"
[3:54] <RITRedbeard> Hold on guys, wiiguy wants to install windows 8 on his raspberry pi.
[3:54] * RITRedbeard rolls his eyes.
[3:54] <mrdragons> dramatic_hamster.gif
[3:58] * MT`BNC (~MagicalTu@2a01:4f8:120:9485::1) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:01] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:02] * MT`BNC is now known as MagicalTux
[4:02] * MagicalTux is now known as Guest29478
[4:03] * Guest29478 is now known as MagicalTux
[4:03] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@2a01:4f8:120:9485::1) Quit (Changing host)
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[4:03] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) Quit (Excess Flood)
[4:05] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:05] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) Quit (Excess Flood)
[4:10] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:10] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit ()
[4:12] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:6024:bef5:2cca:38c5) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:14] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:20] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[4:28] <mrdragons> Does anyone know if it's possible to share threads between processes with python?
[4:29] <mrdragons> Of if there's any way in general to share variables between an indeterminate number of classes?
[4:29] <mrdragons> Or*
[4:31] <mrdragons> I suppose I could set up a sort of "server" class, which is a separate program in itself and simply returns data, but that would be overkill and not particularly resourceful
[4:37] * IT_Sean (42101772@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:38] <IT_Sean> <.<
[4:38] <IT_Sean> >.>
[4:39] <mrdragons> Anyone? :\
[4:40] <IT_Sean> apparently not
[4:40] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5626.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[4:42] <mrdragons> Hmm, global variables could get very messy
[4:43] <IT_Sean> ?
[4:43] <mrdragons> Does anyone know if it's possible to share threads between processes with python?
[4:43] <mrdragons> Of if there's any way in general to share variables between an indeterminate number of classes?
[4:43] <IT_Sean> I have No Idea. Sorry.
[4:45] <mrdragons> np
[4:50] * IT_Sean (42101772@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[4:58] <mrdragons> Guess I'll do it the nasty way and fork a "server" IPC
[5:03] <RITRedbeard> mrdragons, IPC? something at OS level?
[5:03] <mrdragons> Heh, not really, but taken from the idea of a microkernel
[5:05] <mrdragons> It's for my bot, I'm working on implementing a way to easily share data so a plugin can provide info to other plugins, without have to rewrite each plugin or having all kinds of wierd dependancy issues
[5:07] <mrdragons> Like for the help plugin, I want to be able to have a plugin be able to provide a special help variable, but still have it be usable if that variable doesn't exist
[5:07] * kcj (~casey@ has joined #raspberrypi
[5:07] * kcj (~casey@ Quit (Changing host)
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[5:09] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:09] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:13] * DaQatz (~DB@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[5:14] * genbattle (~quassel@203-114-137-9.wir.sta.inspire.net.nz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:14] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:17] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:27] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[5:36] * roman3x (~roman3x@adsl-dyn24.91-127-82.t-com.sk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:48] * DaQatz (~DB@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:05] * MystX (~MystX@121-73-41-249.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:14] <Soul_Est> o/ MystX
[6:15] <MystX> \o
[6:16] <DaQatz> |o?
[6:16] <DaQatz> |\o/
[6:16] <MystX> wat
[6:16] <Soul_Est> DaQatz: did you have a question?
[6:16] <DaQatz> No
[6:17] <Soul_Est> MystX: how's it going?
[6:17] <MystX> Pretty bad.. 360 wont boot
[6:17] <DaQatz> Sigh pibot is down til I restart his server
[6:18] <DaQatz> And I have drank to much rum to drive down the road to restart it.
[6:18] <Soul_Est> DaQatz: awwww. they'll be ok. hopefully they don't turn and smack you though.
[6:18] <Soul_Est> MystX: ouch. 360S or old 360?
[6:18] * Skorpy (~sevanteri@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:18] <DaQatz> But what will will we do without weather reports and channel logs?!?!?
[6:19] <DaQatz> Oh wait this chan has another logger
[6:19] <DaQatz> But dev and bots does not
[6:19] * RobinJ (robinj@unaffiliated/robinj) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[6:19] * steffen- (~steffen@rsdio.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:19] * merlin1991 (~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:20] <MystX> old 360 =P
[6:20] <MystX> just found what might be my problem..
[6:20] <MystX> also just about set my hair on fire on my desk lamp
[6:21] * AlexanderS (AlexanderS@2a01:4f8:120:7061::5:46a0) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:21] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:21] * zgreg_ (greg@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:21] * bolosaur (u5293@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-udvwacagfnnbdayu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:21] * Stskeeps (~cvm@Maemo/community/distmaster/Stskeeps) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:21] * paul- (u4804@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pdyhdcvvxcdvyyli) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[6:21] * huene (~join@thedarkside.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[6:21] * Hexxeh (u1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpgbvqfrcnleizsi) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:21] * weuxel (~norman@2a01:4f8:100:9442::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:22] * slaeshjag (steven@s.rdw.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[6:26] <MystX> FIRST TRY
[6:26] <MystX> Fuck yeah
[6:26] * zz_MT`AwAy (~MagicalTu@w001.de.eu.xta.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:26] * zz_MT`AwAy is now known as MT`AwAy
[6:26] * MT`AwAy (~MagicalTu@w001.de.eu.xta.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
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[6:29] * MT`AwAy (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:29] <MystX> now to flash freeboot =D
[6:30] * Stskeeps (~cvm@monster.tspre.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:30] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@199-7-156-33.eng.wind.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:30] * Stskeeps (~cvm@monster.tspre.org) Quit (Changing host)
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[6:44] * paul- (u4804@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wnihhcggqboxbpje) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:46] * AlexanderS (AlexanderS@2a01:4f8:120:7061::5:46a0) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[7:01] * imnichol (~ian@ Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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[7:14] <MystX> Ffs flashing over parallel is slow
[7:28] * LiENUS (~yes@2001:470:bbb3:12:6024:bef5:2cca:38c5) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:33] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:37] * urokhtor (~urokhtor@dsl-jnsbrasgw2-ff66c000-211.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:39] * urokhtor is now known as Urokhtor
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[8:01] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:01] <RITRedbeard> are there any ARM chips you can source from digikey/mouser/etc?
[8:03] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[8:06] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[8:08] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[8:09] * heymaster (~heymaster@ has joined #raspberrypi
[8:22] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:22] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:32] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: yes
[8:33] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: But they are not - other than the all-in-one chips - simple to integrate
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[10:51] <Syliss> cannot wait!
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[10:54] <Syliss> no one around?
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[10:56] <warddr> hello Syliss
[10:56] <Syliss> hi hi
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> Syliss: I suggest Dignitas, if you really can't wait.
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> It's probably a little extreme though.
[11:01] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:02] <Syliss> never heard of it
[11:02] <tntexplo1ivesltd> =D
[11:03] <Syliss> i wonder how hard their server is going to get hit
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[11:07] <Davespice> morning o/
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[11:17] <Davespice> Syliss, their online shop is a dedicated e-commerce site hosted in USA. I would 'hypothesise' that it's probably got quite a lot of grunt behind it. So it should be able to cope with the demand.
[11:17] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) has left #raspberrypi
[11:17] <Davespice> But it will be like buying Bon Jovi or U2 tickets though, that's for sure :)
[11:17] <Syliss> its gonna suck hardcore
[11:18] <Davespice> I don't know, I think people will be pleasantly surprised :)
[11:19] <Syliss> at how fast they sell out?
[11:20] <Davespice> wise guy eh? at that the fact that they get one!
[11:21] <Syliss> lol
[11:21] <Syliss> idk I'm crossing my fingers i can order one
[11:21] <Syliss> i want it for xbmc and a pc for my tv
[11:22] <Syliss> was even thinking of picking up a dead laptop off craigslist and converting it to work in it.
[11:25] <Ben64> it would be pretty awesome to get it hooked up to a laptop screen and run off of the battery
[11:25] <Ben64> would be quite difficult though
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[11:28] <Syliss> depends
[11:28] <Syliss> would be really cool tho
[11:28] <Syliss> since it should use less power
[11:28] <Ben64> i have a few broken laptops here
[11:28] <Ben64> but to run the screen, would need a controller
[11:28] <Syliss> lol i don't, i try not to have extra stuff, wife's not a fan
[11:29] <Ben64> i always end up with stuff
[11:29] <Syliss> she has a shit ton of art supplies she doesn't use, but I'm not allowed to have extra computer stuff
[11:29] <Ben64> its so useful though
[11:29] <Syliss> which is ok, i don't need it that bad
[11:29] <Ben64> what if you need a psu
[11:29] <Syliss> for what
[11:29] <Syliss> i use laptops now
[11:29] <Ben64> oh
[11:29] <Syliss> mbp and an old acer
[11:30] <Syliss> my macbook pro is my main pc
[11:30] <Syliss> i use my old acer aspire 3002lci for when i need xp
[11:30] <Syliss> other then that i don't really need another computer
[11:30] <Ben64> sounds familiar...
[11:31] <Ben64> i think those acers have bad monitor connections
[11:31] <Syliss> yeah i have a line of dead/stuck pixels!
[11:31] <Ben64> heh
[11:31] <Syliss> sucks but is easy to ignore
[11:31] <Syliss> doesn't show up on white
[11:32] <Ben64> i saw a few of those that the whole screen would blank out occasionally
[11:32] <Syliss> never had that before
[11:33] <Syliss> and I've had it for 5ish years
[11:35] <Ben64> i really want to replace my old toshiba laptop with the rpi
[11:35] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[11:36] <Ben64> the laptop can't even play 720p reliably : /
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[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Most prople who are considering replacing their laptop will not be happy
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> The Pi will play a few codecs.
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> Anything that needs to drop to CPU decoding will not work well.
[11:38] <Syliss> i want it for streaming
[11:38] <Syliss> and using my 32" tv as a monitor
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> Streaming what?
[11:38] <Syliss> twit.tv, rev3, and other random stuff
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> The Pi is basically a 10 year old laptop with a hardware accellerator for some video codecs.
[11:39] <Syliss> thats fine by me
[11:39] <Syliss> for $35+ shipping I'm sold
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> If the codecs happen to match what you want to use.
[11:40] <Ben64> all i use is mpeg4, so i'm good
[11:41] <Syliss> i just want it to do what my xbox 360 cant
[11:41] <nxo> divx will be a problem, right?
[11:42] <Ben64> no
[11:43] <nxo> but it's not accelerated, or is it?
[11:43] <Ben64> it is
[11:45] <Syliss> i want this too
[11:45] <Syliss> http://www.wits-tech.com/pages/board.jsp
[11:45] <Syliss> http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/
[11:45] <nxo> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/592 comments suggest otherwise
[11:45] <nxo> or am i wrong?
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[11:47] <Ben64> yeah, that says mpeg4 works
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[11:51] <nxo> ok. "Also need to clarify that xVid is indeed MPEG4 part 2 so is supported." now i'm even happier :)
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[12:18] <ShiftPlusOne2> either way, converting with winff is pretty painless
[12:19] <ShiftPlusOne2> Unless you convert on the pi itself... which would probably take way too long.
[12:24] <haltdef> I joined late, xvid will be gpu accelerated?
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[12:25] <ShiftPlusOne2> haltdef, yeah
[12:26] <haltdef> handy
[12:27] <haltdef> wonder if the ARM will be fine doing 576i mpeg2 itself
[12:27] <Ben64> mpeg2 won't work very well
[12:27] <rm> it might
[12:27] <rm> mpeg2 is the simplest of the codecs (and very old)
[12:28] <haltdef> I've played xvid on a lower clocked xscale smoothly
[12:28] <haltdef> mpeg2 should work, not sure about deinterlacing though :P
[12:28] <ShiftPlusOne2> I don't remember having much trouble with watching movies on the computer 10 years ago... why shouldn't the pi cpu handle simple video formats?
[12:28] <Ben64> the cpu on the rpi is not very powerful though
[12:28] <mjr> good point on the deinterlace
[12:28] <mjr> might be tight
[12:29] <haltdef> meh, pi will be a headless server for me anyway, if I need something more powerful I'll get a pandaboard
[12:29] <haltdef> I probably won't but I'm eying one up anyway, just to faff with
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[12:31] <Syliss> too expensive for me
[12:31] <Syliss> http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/
[12:32] <Syliss> this would be nice tho
[12:32] <Syliss> http://www.wits-tech.com/pages/board.jsp
[12:32] <ShiftPlusOne2> would be
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[13:19] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-143-156.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[13:34] * Hexxeh (u1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eylahmabrgqyuhmr) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:56] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@ Quit (Quit: Done)
[13:58] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-143-156.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[13:59] * elliott1 (~Elliott@pool-173-61-107-223.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:00] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has left #raspberrypi
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[14:15] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[14:15] * ShiftPlusOne3 (~Shift@124-168-87-152.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:16] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes all sold though
[14:17] <RaTTuS|BIG> jk
[14:17] * EiN_ (~einstein@213-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:18] <ReggieUK> master stroke from david braben though, with the consumer release set for q3-12 (forgetting to mention that consumer = education establishments, instead of the OEM versions we all want :D)
[14:18] <ReggieUK> which are still on schedule
[14:19] <ReggieUK> keeps the pi in the news, keeps the people interested and liz busy :D
[14:19] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] <ReggieUK> of course, come release day, there will still be a lot of unhappy people I suspect
[14:21] <mrdragons> "I bought a $25 computer that didn't live up to the expectations I put upon it; I demand a %200 refund!"
[14:22] <drazyl> "I bought a $25 computer and it cost me $35 and IT DOES NOT RUN WINDOWS!!!11!11oneoneone
[14:24] <Aquilus> Haha
[14:24] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:24] * victhor_ (~victhor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:25] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-143-156.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:26] <mrdragons> The forums should be ...interesting once all the noobs show up at once. :P
[14:27] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@ Quit (Quit: Done)
[14:30] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-0-231-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:35] <jzu> the R-Pi team should insert a banner on the shop front page
[14:35] <jzu> This computer does not run Microsoft Windows, sor^H^H^H enjoy.
[14:37] <ReggieUK> it'll be mental
[14:37] <ReggieUK> like a farm waste lorry hitting a 747 turbine
[14:37] <ReggieUK> when the noobs show up that is
[14:38] <ReggieUK> at least we can refer them to the datasheet now :D
[14:38] <ReggieUK> ahahahaha
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> I assume by that you mean the 200 page thingy?
[14:39] <ReggieUK> yes
[14:40] * DaQatz (~DB@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] <ReggieUK> I particularly like page 102 myself
[14:40] <ReggieUK> lots of colour, the black and white printed version will be awesome with crayons
[14:40] <ReggieUK> that'll keep em busy
[14:41] <chris_99> does linux have some kind of SPI module out of interest to use the GPIO
[14:41] <ReggieUK> in fact, 102-104 should keep them very busy
[14:42] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-143-156.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:42] <ReggieUK> why would it have an spi module to use gpio? I'm not sure I follow what you mean? spi is a comms type, gpio are pins
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> A hardware SPI port exposed on the GPIO connector.
[14:43] <ReggieUK> ahh, now that's a question I can understand :)
[14:43] <chris_99> i mean to handle the SPI clocking of data
[14:44] <ReggieUK> not sure if there is a direct SPI driver or not
[14:45] <ReggieUK> although, it shouldn't be incredibly difficult to implement as there are many examples out there
[14:45] <chris_99> just found http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/spi/spi-summary
[14:46] <ReggieUK> do we know of any other devices using bcm2835? or if there are other chips that resemble a 2835? Just thinking aloud that if there are 'mature' devices out there then it's highly likely that anything that's missing driver wise could potentially be ported fairly easily
[14:47] * merlin1991 (~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:48] <ReggieUK> linux supports it but it still needs a driver
[14:48] * AlexanderS (AlexanderS@2a01:4f8:120:7061::5:46a0) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[15:32] * nxo (~nxo@gateway/tor-sasl/nxo) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[15:32] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:33] * Caver just been reading the FAQ
[15:33] * slaeshjag (steven@s.rdw.se) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:33] <Caver> LOL @ Will it Blend
[15:34] * weuxel (~norman@2a01:4f8:100:9442::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:35] * bolosaur (u5293@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vppizrkvvugspmxc) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:58] * jmontleo (jmontleon@nat/redhat/x-quqcptycnzibbwpi) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:00] <Henchman21> dont breathe this
[16:01] <Henchman21> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9V-goCaua0
[16:02] <Henchman21> i really want a blendtec blender
[16:02] <Henchman21> but 400$ is a bit over my budget for a blender
[16:04] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@13-165-19.client.wireless.msu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:06] <Caver> LOL
[16:06] <Caver> yeah by about $350
[16:09] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <Henchman21> must be diamond coated blades or somethin
[16:14] * victhor_ (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:16] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[16:16] * Caver mutters something about fools and money being easily separated
[16:18] <chris_99> i wouldnt want bits of diamond hanging around my food
[16:18] <Caver> LOL I'm fairly sure there isn't food hard enough to chip diamond
[16:22] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-028.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:23] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[16:27] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) Quit (Quit: ??????)
[16:30] <chris_99> the diamond bits fall off though
[16:30] <chris_99> if i recall
[16:30] <chris_99> as they're only glued on or something
[16:30] <chris_99> aren't they
[16:31] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:34] * roman3x (~roman3x@adsl-dyn24.91-127-82.t-com.sk) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[16:35] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[16:36] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[16:40] * FFes (~Frank@office.admea.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:42] <mrdragons> Bahhaha, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko
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[17:33] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-94-52-173.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:33] <mkopack> Wow, quiet considering we're only about a week from launch!
[17:33] <wiiguy> a week and a few days
[17:33] <mkopack> You guys been following that thread on the forum about the config.txt file and the boot process?
[17:33] <wiiguy> they said they are still gonna test it before shipping
[17:33] <Caver> yes
[17:34] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:34] <mkopack> wilguy: Right, so ABOUT a week
[17:34] <wiiguy> mkopack link ?
[17:34] <Syliss> nope I'm going in blind
[17:34] <Caver> and the bun fight about overclocking ...
[17:34] <traeak> 6 days?
[17:34] <mkopack> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/config-txt/
[17:34] <traeak> well yeah, back from factory in 6days ig uess
[17:34] <Syliss> at least a week and a half
[17:34] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@124-148-189-239.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:34] <Syliss> maybe they'll be funny and do it on the 29th ;)
[17:35] <traeak> i have no desire to OC/OV
[17:35] <mkopack> yeah, me niether
[17:35] <traeak> and i guess there's no real reason to underclock/undervolt
[17:35] <wiiguy> arm_freq=UNLIMITED POWER
[17:35] <Syliss> lol
[17:35] <Caver> maybe, but it's nice to have the option
[17:35] <Caver> personally I like how open they are trying to make it all
[17:35] <mkopack> they're having a bit of a holywar near the end of that thread about safety, and people voiding warranty's??? Honestly, it's $35 device. If you blow it, you buy a new one??? geesh
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> np: Europe - The Final Countdown.
[17:36] <Caver> yup ... but don't underestimate how evil kids can be :)
[17:36] <traeak> just hope we don't fill up the landfills with rpis
[17:36] <wiiguy> do you think they will make us a sd card with the software or can we just download it ? :p
[17:36] <Caver> I liked the ... you can overclock, but only if you enter the mac's
[17:36] <ReggieUK> not from the intial run we won't traeak!
[17:36] <mkopack> Caver: Yeah, but that's true with ANY computer???
[17:36] <Caver> traeak, thats ok they blend well - it says so in the FAQ
[17:36] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... are there laws which would force some sort of warranty to be provided?
[17:36] <ReggieUK> you'll be lucky to fill a wheely bin
[17:36] <traeak> i undervolted some x86 chips, that's because they tended to overheat
[17:36] <mkopack> Shift: I'm SURE there is
[17:36] <Caver> ShiftPlusOne, yes .. 2 years in the UK
[17:36] <Syliss> i love the hdmi setting!
[17:37] <traeak> youch
[17:37] <wiiguy> i like trains
[17:37] <traeak> warranty: trade in and move up in the waiting list
[17:37] <ShiftPlusOne> Caver, that obviously just covers things like manufacturer faults, not simply someone overvolting something and killing it, right?
[17:38] <traeak> they can detect overvolting death
[17:38] <Caver> thats why the put the fuse in
[17:38] <mkopack> exactly
[17:38] * Caver sends ShiftPlusOne off to read the full thread
[17:38] <traeak> make it run in the hardware provided
[17:38] <ShiftPlusOne> oh, sorry I just joined, so I had no idea what you were talking about, lol
[17:38] <mkopack> The concern is that kids will change the settings in the config.txt to cause it to over volt and pop the fuse and then when the unit fails and it gets sent in for warranty coverage it'll get rejected
[17:38] <traeak> don'[t make me overclock because you're too lazy to fix your code :-p
[17:38] <Caver> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/config-txt/
[17:39] <traeak> hehe
[17:39] <traeak> they shouldn't provide the overclock settings in the txt file
[17:39] <ukscone> Got some background music on and just realized that I haven't heard a word of english in over 60minutes. german, french, finnish... yes english no
[17:39] <Caver> yes they should
[17:39] <traeak> make someone find the keyword via internet
[17:39] <Caver> teach kids the hardway about not abusing hardware!
[17:39] <traeak> if they care enough to overclock it they'll go look for it
[17:40] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:40] <traeak> putting the text vale there is like putting a big red button on a panel and telling someone not to press it
[17:40] <traeak> at least you can put the red button on the side or back
[17:40] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] <traeak> text value sry
[17:40] <traeak> hehe
[17:41] <Caver> LOL and add *how* much to the cost?
[17:42] <Caver> lets me honest if they want to blow something up, then a good static shock will do it!
[17:43] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[17:45] <ReggieUK> where's the arm_freq=MOAR_POWER setting?
[17:46] <Caver> uhuh
[17:47] <ReggieUK> nice to see that they're letting people easily access the kernel cmdline options too
[17:47] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:47] <Caver> yeah
[17:48] <ShiftPlusOne> Just wondering... since other hardware will be using the same GPU, do you think it would be possible to steal a start.elf with all the codecs enabled, or is the build actually specific to the hardware?
[17:48] <Caver> I was wondering that
[17:49] <Caver> or is it signed so you can't
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[17:50] <ShiftPlusOne> I guess it depends on how their chain of trust thing works
[17:50] <traeak> dunno static hasn't actually caused trouble for a while on most circuits
[17:52] <ShiftPlusOne> Maybe find some static text in the file (if there is any), change a characted and see if it still boots. =/
[17:52] * djazz1 (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:52] <ShiftPlusOne> (unrelated to the static traek is talking about obviously >.>)
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[18:12] <stenowin> Anyone think there needs to be a site selling RP verified working accessories/shields/breakouts/sd cards/blah blah?
[18:13] <RaTTuS|BIG> no
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[18:13] <rm> there doesn't 'need' to be, but there'll be some anyway
[18:13] <rm> there's some profit to be made
[18:13] <rm> if you can make and/or source+resell this stuff
[18:14] <rm> especially cases, at least initially
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> I plan on selling a device for securing the raspberry pi against high winds.
[18:14] <stenowin> Would that be diverting money away from the RP foundation/charity? Are they planning to sell all of this themselves?
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> It is remarkably similar to a housebrick, with a length of duct tape.
[18:14] <ShiftPlusOne> SpeedEvil, duct tape?
[18:14] <ShiftPlusOne> dammit
[18:15] <rm> stenowin, no idea what you mean, but I'm talking about third-party sites
[18:15] <rm> the foundation will only sell SD cards in addition to Pi on launch
[18:15] <rm> from what we know
[18:15] <stenowin> "will only sell sd cards" perfectly answers my question, thank you
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[18:16] <stenowin> Looks like there will be a market for these items, kits, etc.
[18:17] <rm> that's on launch -- later they will offer cases
[18:17] <mrdragons> What did i miss?
[18:18] <rm> they mentioned the case "will not increase the price, if possible"
[18:18] <djazz> https://twitter.com/#!/daniel_hede/status/163046620982812673 ^^
[18:19] <stenowin> I would imagine people would want DIY RP server kit, router kit, voip kit, robot kit, just about any simple project.
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> quadcopter kit
[18:21] <stenowin> why not, as long as people are willing to pay enough
[18:21] <drazyl> shark and laser beam integration kit
[18:22] <stenowin> even dogs that shoot bees out of their mouths when they bark kit
[18:22] * SpeedEvil wishes that solar panels for the RPi weren't so ridiculous.
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[18:23] <SpeedEvil> (You need close on a 250W panel to supply 2.5W for all the year)
[18:24] <hamitron> hmmm
[18:24] <hamitron> tempted to power mine off coal
[18:24] <hamitron> :)
[18:25] <ShiftPlusOne> well... you probably will.
[18:25] <hamitron> dedicated mini power station for the r-pi
[18:25] <mrdragons> That'd be pretty awesome
[18:25] <mrdragons> Would you use a sort of steam engine to make electricity?
[18:25] <hamitron> yeh
[18:25] <ShiftPlusOne> or you can just plug it into the power socket to power it off coal.
[18:26] <hamitron> ShiftPlusOne, but no fun :/
[18:26] <ShiftPlusOne> but that's not fun
[18:26] <mrdragons> Heh, I kind of want to do that now, even if he's joking. :P
[18:26] <hamitron> I was serious tbh
[18:26] <hamitron> I love steam engines
[18:26] <hamitron> :)
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[18:26] <mrdragons> Oh cool. ^_^
[18:26] <hamitron> "how to not be green"
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[18:27] <hamitron> failing that, will just get a cycle machine
[18:28] <hamitron> hamitron power
[18:28] <hamitron> :)
[18:31] <rm> http://www.earth.org.uk/ <- here's a great website about running things on low-power and from solar
[18:31] <rm> I'd imagine R Pi is rather easy
[18:32] <mrdragons> Water power would be pretty cool too
[18:32] <rm> compared to what they pull off there
[18:32] <mrdragons> Not particularly portable, but meh. :P
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> rm: you actually need a ~250W solar panel, and a 100Ah 12V power supply to supply 2.5W mostly constantly.
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> At least here in scotland.
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> It's not much better in england.
[18:33] <rm> SpeedEvil, batteries!
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> Probably 400 quidish all-in
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> s/power supply/battery/
[18:34] <rm> from what I read you don't need a 100x ratio
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> rm: You do, if you have several dim days in a row.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> I've done the numbers, based on 10 minutely output figures of a local solar panel.
[18:37] <rm> okay
[18:37] <Syliss> i wouldn't mind using it as a wifi scanner/wep cracker
[18:37] <rm> well, maybe also add a wind turbine? :)
[18:37] <Syliss> lol
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[18:38] <ShiftPlusOne> While we're at it, why not use geothermal energy as well?
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> rm: Wind turbines in general suck. In most places.
[18:39] <ReggieUK> strap it to the sun
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> ShiftPlusOne: geothermal energy only wokrs if you can vore a hole down 1km.
[18:39] <mrdragons> Make a mini nuclear reactor?
[18:39] <ShiftPlusOne> easy
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[18:40] <mrdragons> Wasn't there a dude that recently got arrested for making a nuclear reactor in his kitchen? It's probably doable. :P
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[18:40] <hamitron> fart power
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[18:47] <piofcube> mrdragons: Buy 2 or 3 dozen smoke dectors and work from there. There was a kid built a reactor in his shed... Cost his family a load of money in fines and the hazmet team had to dismantle it all.
[18:48] <mrdragons> 0_o
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[18:49] <piofcube> His maths were slightly off... it was 100 times more powerful than he thought it would have been LMAO
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[18:49] <mrdragons> Dude wat
[18:49] <mrdragons> Just out of smoke detectors? 0_0
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[18:50] <piofcube> He used that to manufacture the other materials
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[18:53] <piofcube> Smoke dectors use Americium whish is usually made from uranium or plutonium so with the right stuff you can purify it greatly...
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[19:09] <mrdragons> Hmm, 2 alpha particles and 1 beta particle and you'd have uranium
[19:09] <mrdragons> I should probably say right now that I'm really not interested in making anything.
[19:09] <hamitron> I don't know enough about such stuff to attempt it :/
[19:10] <piofcube> I wouldn't dream of making anything like that.. but it is interesting
[19:10] * pistacik_ (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:12] <piofcube> Like I always wondered what would happen if a match factory would "go up"... I wouldn't want to make it happen but all that phospher soup... I don't know how they get people to work in the place.
[19:12] <mrdragons> Oh yeah, and Americium is an element; you can't purify an element. :P
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[19:13] <piofcube> Concentrate it then... make it more readily "bang-able" LOL
[19:14] <piofcube> But you can use it to purify other radioactives
[19:15] <mrdragons> You can change it into another element with radiation if you know what you're doing, yea
[19:16] <piofcube> I wonder if you could use it to overclock a CPU ;-) It does tend to speed up electron movement hahaha
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[19:28] <mrdragons> Is it out yet?
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[19:30] <DaQatz> ???/0 =
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[19:49] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ???/0 = ???
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[19:58] <rm> love how they changed the last blog post
[19:58] <rm> You will be able to buy a Raspberry Pi before the end of this month => You will be able to buy a Raspberry Pi from the end of February
[19:59] <ShiftPlusOne> it was a bit irresponsible to say otherwise
[19:59] <traeak> hehe
[19:59] <traeak> well
[19:59] <traeak> there's reality
[20:00] <traeak> production, etc is a touchy thing, espeically if you don't have contorl over it
[20:00] <traeak> just don't be impatient (heh)
[20:00] <rm> I'm sick of constant delays. it will be delayed to somewhere late march, and then I won't actually get one of 10k anyway.
[20:00] <rm> that's what is going to happen
[20:00] <traeak> this hasn't reached pandora level yet
[20:00] * haltdef comforts rm
[20:00] <haltdef> it'll be ok
[20:00] <traeak> if you are familiar with the pandora
[20:01] <ShiftPlusOne> I am still waiting for my pandora =D
[20:02] <haltdef> omap3? meh
[20:03] <haltdef> transformer prime would be *perfect* if it wasn't tied to android
[20:03] <haltdef> :(
[20:04] <traeak> transformer prime hackable yet?
[20:04] <traeak> hmm
[20:04] <haltdef> dad has one, and hardware wise it's incredible
[20:04] <traeak> i think what people find out is that having things not under your control exponentially increases the complexity
[20:05] <traeak> pandora you mean?
[20:05] <traeak> considering it was started when? 2008 or 2009 ?
[20:06] <haltdef> no, transformer prime
[20:07] <haltdef> fully fuctional ARM based netbook, I KNOW LET'S PUT A SMARTPHONE OS ON IT LOL
[20:07] <traeak> oh, i thought you meant pandora :-p
[20:07] <traeak> yeah, that's irritating
[20:07] * haltdef bangs head against something brick-like
[20:07] <traeak> and the cost is a bit high, but paparently people buy it
[20:07] <traeak> i saw a transformer at best buy last year
[20:07] <traeak> it actually looked like nice hardware
[20:07] <haltdef> built like a tank while not being too heavy, beatuiful screen
[20:11] <Tachyon`> nothing wrong with the pandora
[20:12] <ShiftPlusOne> Tachyon`, sure there is... they've repeatedly lied to me before evildragon took over and even now, many years later, they still haven't delivered.
[20:13] <Tachyon`> had mine since last april
[20:13] <ShiftPlusOne> well that's why you don't have a problem with it =)
[20:13] <traeak> ShiftPlusOne: probably not lied, just were too optimistic
[20:13] <Tachyon`> oh, I think craig probably lied
[20:13] <Tachyon`> were you dealing with craig?
[20:13] <traeak> craigx
[20:13] <Tachyon`> yes, him
[20:13] <traeak> care to tell the story on that?
[20:14] <traeak> i don't know craig though
[20:14] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't know, I was dealing with the orders email... so whoever replied to those
[20:14] <traeak> basically someone has lost a lot of $$$ on pandora though
[20:14] <Tachyon`> on two occasions he put beta releases of mine on his repo without my consent and refused to remove them and that's by no means an isolated incident, heh
[20:14] <traeak> trying to make money on an apps store ?
[20:14] <Tachyon`> he was paying someone to trawl for applications and just putting them up no matter whose they were and ignoring requsets to remove them, one of mine is still there ffs
[20:14] <Tachyon`> ads I assume, yes
[20:15] <traeak> i suspect he got in deep there
[20:15] <traeak> a shame
[20:15] <Tachyon`> but apparently there have been other more serious issues with himmaking promises he knew he couldn't deliver and so on
[20:15] <Tachyon`> ShiftPlusOne, are you in teh UK?
[20:15] <traeak> yeah, shit happens when money is involved
[20:15] <ShiftPlusOne> nope, not in the UK.
[20:16] <Tachyon`> ah, .au
[20:16] <Tachyon`> about as far from the UK as is possible
[20:16] <Tachyon`> hrm, dunno who you'd have dealt with then
[20:16] <traeak> we had someone go nuclear on us as well...over something like that
[20:16] <traeak> AU is closer in time zones to the UK than the US is (i think)
[20:17] <traeak> well hawaii and guam
[20:17] <Tachyon`> .au is on the other side of the bloody planet
[20:17] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't really care, I can wait another 3 years, but I think I was stupid to pre-order so early.
[20:17] <Tachyon`> it hsouldn't be much longer
[20:18] <Tachyon`> the new production run is underway I think
[20:18] <Tachyon`> you'll get twice as much ram in yours too
[20:18] <mrdragons> So what exactly happened with the pandora?
[20:18] <Tachyon`> 512MB compared to the 256MB mine has
[20:18] <mrdragons> I keep hearing a bunch about it
[20:18] <traeak> ouch, so pandora is breaking backward compat already
[20:18] <traeak> how much are they nowadays?
[20:18] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, AFAIK they are being produced, but I am not holdin gmy breath.
[20:18] <Tachyon`> er, probably not, I asked ED to add an option to the bootloader on the 512MB models so they can be booted with 256MB available (for testing apps)
[20:18] <Tachyon`> so it should be okay
[20:19] <Tachyon`> they're otherwise identical apart from the RAM
[20:19] <traeak> personally, as cool as the keyboard might be, it seems to have been one of the many achilles heels
[20:19] <hamitron> I hope the r-pi isn't changed too soon
[20:19] <traeak> be interesting question
[20:19] <Tachyon`> the keyboard is pretty nice actually, the touchscreen is the best resistive one I've used too
[20:20] <Tachyon`> but you can use the analogue controllers to mouse around
[20:20] <Tachyon`> so you don't even need to touch the screen
[20:20] <traeak> for the rpi i'd bet it relies on how long broadcom will even manufacture these parts
[20:20] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, it was just mismanaged... they've ruined the relationship with their manufacturer which basically gave up on them, so craig bailed and EvilDragon took production over to Germany.
[20:20] <traeak> Tachyon`: keyboard adds hugely to the price and killt the schedule
[20:20] <Tachyon`> er, that's not quite true
[20:20] <Tachyon`> the manufacturer were incompetent
[20:20] <Tachyon`> produced non-working parts
[20:20] <Tachyon`> and didn't produce the last 1000 at all
[20:20] <Tachyon`> despite having been paid for them
[20:21] <traeak> yeah, back to my comment earlier about not having control over things exponentially increases the complexity
[20:21] <ShiftPlusOne> Tachyon`, that's one side of the story. I feel like there was a lot left out before any of that happened.
[20:21] <Tachyon`> yes well, if they will get electronics made in the state that gave us both Bush presidents...
[20:22] <traeak> the keyboard requires a higher level of manufacturing precision, etc...that doesn't help
[20:22] <Tachyon`> it's the PCBs that slowed it down
[20:22] <Tachyon`> the keybaords were done ages ago
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[20:22] <traeak> i guess my point is that i have zero problem with onscreen keyboards
[20:22] <traeak> ie: having a hard keyboard to me isn't even a selling point
[20:23] * Tachyon` blinks
[20:23] <traeak> back a few years ago that might have not been true
[20:23] <mrdragons> Really? I can't stand not having a hardware keyboard
[20:23] <Tachyon`> same here, heh
[20:23] <traeak> get a laptop
[20:23] <ShiftPlusOne> mrdragons, +1
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[20:23] <Tachyon`> even the nice on screen keyboard on my android device is no substitute for a real one
[20:23] <traeak> i have a nokia n900 and to me that keyboard is pretty worthless
[20:23] <traeak> yeah, but i just avoid using a lame mini keyboard
[20:23] <mrdragons> Different strokes for different folks I guess
[20:24] <traeak> i think it's because i type so damn fast on a normal keyboard i find the phone ones to be extremely frustrating
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> I find some small keyboards to be OK.
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> I hit ~35wpm on my n900, after about a week of using it after my laptop died
[20:24] <traeak> so to me the difference between an onscreen keyboard vs phone kb is miniscule compared to a real keyboard
[20:24] <ShiftPlusOne> What annoys me the most is that phone manufacturers refuse to stagger the keys >=/
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> I think I'd have gotten to ~40wpm
[20:25] * SpeedEvil stabs Elop.
[20:25] <traeak> i'm not willing too..much thumbs can't take it
[20:25] <traeak> i'm one of those people who can reach an octave + 4 notes on a piano
[20:25] <traeak> with one hand
[20:26] <traeak> anyways
[20:27] <mrdragons> Feed Me
[20:27] <mrdragons> Listen to him
[20:27] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:27] <traeak> my point being the pandora maybe didn't make the most prudent choices on technology (being "good enough" is the biggest target to hit")
[20:27] <mrdragons> And spor, because the same guy. ^_^
[20:28] <traeak> who's spor?
[20:28] <mrdragons> DnB artist, also goes by feed me for his house music
[20:29] <mrdragons> And yeah, from the sound of it pandora was a bit of a mess everywhere
[20:29] <traeak> tried to do too much i think, biggest part of making a product is actually getting it to market when there still is a market
[20:30] <traeak> rpi is doing an okay job i think
[20:30] <traeak> they're trying to feed us with information
[20:30] <traeak> and it's a hard tightrope to walk, giving information and screwing up expectations
[20:30] <traeak> not screwing up expectations i mean
[20:31] <mrdragons> They're doing an awesome job imo, especially with the amount of publicity they've had
[20:31] <traeak> yes i think so as well
[20:31] <traeak> i'm still mad they didn't release the simple gumstick last summer :-p
[20:32] <traeak> although frankly i bet it wouldn't have gone into manufacture before december
[20:32] <mrdragons> That would have been pretty cool, al beit not entirely practical. :P
[20:32] <mrdragons> About the usb stick-sized one, that is
[20:33] <traeak> practical in some ways...
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[20:34] <traeak> non embedded users would have something in their hands already
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[20:54] <koaschten> wait, let me plugg the webserver in my laptop to show you the new concept *cough*
[20:59] <traeak> concept for?
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[21:00] <koaschten> this was a hypthetical scenario to show the use of the gumstick pi
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[21:03] <traeak> youch just checked the rhombust page
[21:03] * Skorpy_ is now known as Skorpy
[21:03] <traeak> the rhombust package by itself can't do anythin, you hve to plug it into another board to even get video, usb, etc
[21:04] <traeak> so it's even more restricted than the beaglebone by default
[21:05] <traeak> http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68#Example_Motherboards
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[21:12] <traeak> looking at these specs however, it does seem that it might be possible for rhombust to pull this off
[21:13] <traeak> i'm not sure if their product is that compelling, though
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> It's fairly uninteresting for me, as someone interested in embedded
[21:15] <ShiftPlusOne> I am more interested in USB powered sock warmers, but I may be biased, since my feet are freezing right now =/
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> The form-factor is only of use if it's interesting for the user to be able to upgrade the CPU module.
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> Why the hell would I be interested in that?
[21:16] <traeak> one positive on their side
[21:16] <traeak> the cpu module only need contain the cpu and the ram
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> No it doesn't.
[21:16] <traeak> why not?
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> It needs CPU+RAM+power supply + decoupling + peripherals + ...
[21:17] <traeak> the cpu module gets its power from the "break out" board
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> It gets 5V
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> It will not use 5V internally at all.
[21:17] <traeak> huh ?
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> Other than for the internal power supply.
[21:18] <traeak> there is no internal power supply
[21:18] <traeak> http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68/MiniEngineeringBoard
[21:18] <traeak> power is supplied via the pcmcia connector
[21:18] <traeak> the break out board
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> 5V power, not the internal supply rails that will be required.
[21:19] <traeak> but they can limit their internal cpu card PCB since it only needs to have the cpu and the ram .. okay some small power steppers for the ram
[21:19] <traeak> and i guess the soc if necessary
[21:20] <traeak> i believe that's kind of a nit though (i'm not intertested in embedded to the techicalities here are unimportant to me...i'm just comparing the complexity necesarry to do their "card" compared to the pcb on the rpi
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> The complexity is essentially identical.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> The hard part is the core.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> attaching connectors is essentially trivial almost idiot-proof stuff.
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> Sorry if I'm being argumentative, I'm watching BBC parliament and shouting profanities at the screen.
[21:26] <piofcube> The Old git brigade... *of course I am watching a completely different channel*
[21:27] <traeak> SpeedEvil: you're only making the argument that government should be as liited as absolutely possible, that starts with starving them for money
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> traeak: err - what?
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[21:28] <traeak> SpeedEvil: government isw full of a bunch of spoiled children who only know how to spend other people's money :-p
[21:28] <traeak> okay that aside
[21:29] <traeak> if the rpi cpu was stuck in a "card" module like this could it be easily done with a4 layer board instead of a 6 layer board?
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[21:29] <SpeedEvil> No.
[21:30] <traeak> why is that? (just curious)
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> The hard part of the routing is the centimeter or so around the BGA.
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[21:31] <SpeedEvil> Where the wires go after that isn't a problem, as the wires are never as densely packed anywhere else.
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> You can somewhat reduce the number of layers by reducing the number of connections you bring out.
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> But this would mean entirely omitting the connector - not bringing it out onto one connector like the EOMA stuff
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> Doing the R-pi on 2 layers would be quite possible - apart from the CPU
[21:34] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:34] <Jaseman> we like wires
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dwp.gov.uk/consultations/2012/mandatory-consideration.shtml
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> argh
[21:36] <Jaseman> boring
[21:37] <traeak> so not breaking out the expansion headers maybe could reduce the PCB to 4 layers
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> Yes - I was responding to it and mis-pasted
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> traeak: probably not.
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> traeak: the BGA is really dense even on its own.
[21:38] <Jaseman> i dont like abbreviations
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> It'd be easy to answer the question with a full datasheet
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> Ball Grid Array
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> How all modern micros are attached to the board.
[21:39] <Jaseman> sounds like a cool game
[21:39] <traeak> i'm just getting my head around current cost limitations, etc associated with this embedded stuff
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> For example, 18*18 balls, spaced at .5mm
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt - you may find interesting traeak
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> If I haven't linked you it efore.
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> The above addresses a smartphone. Costs are moderately lower for something like a pi
[21:41] <traeak> i'm well aware of the differences of verifying hardware
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> k
[21:42] <traeak> compared with software
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> I don't know what depth you're at.
[21:42] <traeak> the fun part of the future is to solve this particular headache
[21:42] <Jaseman> very very shallow here
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> traeak: I have ideas.
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> traeak: But I need cash to play with.
[21:43] <traeak> an obvious first suggestion is to serialize instead of parallelize, but that's got issues with even greater potential for noise and crosstalk
[21:43] <Jaseman> are you making this up or what?
[21:43] <traeak> and of course the extra hardware to implement a serial protocol
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> traeak: This is essentially not happening soon.
[21:43] <traeak> which of course means no hardware isnt' available for this
[21:44] <traeak> no hardware is available i mean
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> traeak: The costs of small volume manufacture isn't interesting to reduce.
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> For manufacturers
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> (of chips)
[21:44] <traeak> understood
[21:44] <traeak> right now it's just inconvenient for prototyping
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> And we can't make our own chips, as that's not just expensive, it's fucking murderous.
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[21:45] <traeak> i *was* talkign theoretically though
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[21:45] <Jaseman> it doesnt sound like much fun to me
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> The only way would be rapid prototyping of multilayer PCB and assembly
[21:45] <traeak> current silicon technology and wafer manufacture is something only a very very few players can do
[21:46] <traeak> i believe it costs intel at least a billion dollars per factory for each transistor shrink
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Possibly a little more
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[21:47] <Jaseman> how much dose it cost Broadcom?
[21:47] <traeak> intel is pretty extreme in that they are almost always the first
[21:48] <traeak> does broadcom do its own fab ?
[21:48] <Jaseman> i wonder what google will do with motorola
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[21:48] <Jaseman> FAB?
[21:48] <traeak> nope, broadcom outsources fabrication
[21:49] <Jaseman> i dont know what you're on about - more abbrieviations
[21:49] <mkopack> Jase: They only bought the handheld division of Motorolla.. It's so they can make their own Android phones
[21:49] <traeak> ie: broadcom outsources the actual chip manufacture to a foundry
[21:49] <traeak> i thought googlel bought motorola only for their patents and the motorola board (wisely) told google they had to buy everything
[21:50] <traeak> i coudl be very wrong though
[21:50] <Jaseman> well dont worry about it, it sounds convincing
[21:50] <mrdragons> I dunno, microsoft bought nokia a little while back; maybe they
[21:51] <traeak> hehe
[21:51] <mrdragons> 're going to try and compete?
[21:51] <mrdragons> Although microsoft hasn't done anything with nokia, soo...
[21:51] <traeak> MS didn't buy nokia
[21:51] <traeak> they did legally bribe them to push windows phone 7
[21:51] <mkopack> Again, it was just the mobile phone division??? So they get all the phone related patents and the manufacturing capability so they can make the DROID line themselves??? I guess they got tired of seeing Apple make huge profits, and Samsung as well, and google get very little out of the sale of the android phones
[21:51] <Jaseman> i really wish microsoft would stick to what they do best
[21:51] * SpeedEvil wants a n900+.
[21:51] <mkopack> Jase: Office? LOL
[21:52] <Jaseman> operating systems
[21:52] <mrdragons> SpeedEvil: Same
[21:52] <traeak> mkopack: google definitely didn't want to do that with motorola, they specifically left motorola's handset independent
[21:52] <mkopack> Since when do they do that WELL? LOL
[21:52] <traeak> *IF* google bought motorola to manuf their own handsets then samsung, etc would leave android in droves
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[21:52] <Jaseman> they did it well enough to sell them to more people than anyone else by a huge margin
[21:52] <mrdragons> Jaseman: MS? OS? Well? ...
[21:53] <mrdragons> That doesn't mean it's a good os
[21:53] <traeak> no reason for samsung, htc, etc to provide free testing for google and motorola
[21:53] <Jaseman> in business terms - It does
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[21:53] <Jaseman> theres a reason why everyone buys windows
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[21:53] <mrdragons> Because it's popular?
[21:53] <traeak> Jaseman: purely from inertia, no other reason
[21:53] <Jaseman> because it suits them
[21:53] <mkopack> http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/02/14/motorola-googles-ammo-in-its-patent-skirmishes/
[21:54] <Jaseman> its a bity buggy but generally it works well
[21:54] <piofcube> Because it would be silly to *pay* for linux? ;-)
[21:54] <Jaseman> linux is buggy as hell
[21:54] <mrdragons> And it totally isn't because they aren't aware of alternatives
[21:54] <mkopack> Where else is Samsung and HTC and the others going to go? MS Windows phone/?? LOL
[21:54] <piofcube> Comes in a nice box?
[21:54] <traeak> samsung is holding onto bada
[21:54] <traeak> i have no clue whta HTC is doing
[21:55] <Jaseman> you have to understand...
[21:55] <Jaseman> the mass population are not computer nerds
[21:55] <mkopack> Yay, I get to go have a 1 hour discussion with my boss about this years' "commitments" (aka, HR Bullshit)
[21:55] <Jaseman> they want something thats easy
[21:55] <Jaseman> and just works off the shelf
[21:55] <mkopack> and once again try to explain to him that I'm NOT a researcher, I'm an Engineer and there IS a difference
[21:55] <mrdragons> That doesn't make it a good OS.
[21:55] <Jaseman> i think windows is awesome
[21:56] <Jaseman> i prefer it to all other OS's
[21:56] <Jaseman> for the sole reason....
[21:56] <Jaseman> its easy to get it to do what you want to do...
[21:56] <Jaseman> watch movies, surf the net and listen to music
[21:56] <piofcube> It's what they know about... It comes installed on most of their PCs so when they buy another... It's (as far as they know) either windows or a MAC and they aren't buying a MAC so it must be windows. That's a big part of it
[21:56] <tntexplo1ivesltd> ._.
[21:57] <mrdragons> Windows is horrible to do anything with
[21:57] <huene> guys, don't feed the trolls
[21:57] <traeak> http://www.forbes.com/sites/forrester/2011/08/15/analysis-googles-acquisition-of-motorola-mobility/
[21:57] <Jaseman> well the general public says otherwise
[21:57] <traeak> interestin analysis, he speculates google maybe was trying to enter the manuf business
[21:57] <traeak> should search some more
[21:57] <mrdragons> You just said the general public aren't computer nerds
[21:57] <traeak> my speculation was that the patents motorola holds trumps everything else
[21:57] <mrdragons> isn't*
[21:57] <mrdragons> aren't? I dunno
[21:57] <Jaseman> you shouldnt have to be one
[21:58] <mrdragons> That still does not make it a good os.
[21:58] <Jaseman> not everybody wants to dabble with the computer....
[21:58] <Jaseman> they just want to use it
[21:58] <mrdragons> It's a horribly laid out os.
[21:58] <traeak> Jaseman: from a softwrae development viewpoint i absolutely despise windows
[21:58] <Jaseman> and for it to just work
[21:58] <traeak> it provides a pretty hostile programming environment
[21:58] <traeak> pure lunacy with regards to library mangement
[21:58] <traeak> amazingly incompetent
[21:59] <traeak> it used to be horrifically unstable, that's better now with windows7 though (not sure how much better though)
[21:59] <Jaseman> if linux is so wonderful
[21:59] <Jaseman> everyone would have jumped onto it by now
[21:59] <traeak> inertia ?
[21:59] <traeak> not knowing any better ?
[21:59] <piofcube> For browsing the net and erm... browsing the net some more (as they use FB for social, maybe live, hotmail or gmail for email)... can you honestly tell me how Windows and (say) Ubuntu differ for the normal non-tech user?
[21:59] <mrdragons> That's incredibly ignorant to say.
[21:59] <Jaseman> if people can get something for free they will
[21:59] <mrdragons> If that were true most of us would be using and developing plan 9 right now
[22:00] <Jaseman> ok for a start......
[22:00] <Jaseman> on windows.....
[22:00] <Jaseman> you want a watch a dvd
[22:00] <Jaseman> put in the dvd
[22:00] <Jaseman> it plays
[22:00] <piofcube> NO it does not
[22:00] <Jaseman> on ubuntu put it in
[22:00] <Jaseman> doesnt play
[22:00] <piofcube> Try doing that on Win XP Home... you have to pay for the extra codec
[22:00] <Jaseman> because youve gotta faf about first
[22:01] <mrdragons> I'm not going to continue talking about this with you because you have no idea what you're talking about.
[22:01] <mjr> mrdragons, that's probably a good policy
[22:01] <mjr> I was about to start correcting him, but better not
[22:02] <mjr> kicking would be better, unless he starts talking something on-topic, but not my call of course
[22:03] <piofcube> Win7 starter does not allow DVD playback either... IIRC.. *shuts up* ;-)
[22:03] <Jaseman> not to worry
[22:03] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-mshpqhkarbtmntej) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[22:03] <Jaseman> if you think people find linux as easy to set up as windows then you go ahead and think that
[22:03] <Jaseman> and ill have my opinion on it - and thats the end of it
[22:04] <mrdragons> A good os has very little to do with immediate user-friendliness
[22:04] <piofcube> I dunno... Insert disc... click install ubuntu... click use entire hard disk... wait.. bob's your uncle
[22:04] <traeak> mrdragons: it's all pretty relative isn't it? depends on what you need, etc
[22:04] <Jaseman> ill just agree to disagree with you on that
[22:04] <mjr> don't feed the troll, people
[22:05] <piofcube> mjr: does it have the spikey coloured hair and a funny expression ;-)
[22:05] <Jaseman> hardly any hair left
[22:05] <Jaseman> and a miserable expression
[22:05] <mrdragons> traeak: I guess, but the user interface, installer, and codecs are not the OS
[22:06] <mrdragons> They're programs that run on top of the os
[22:06] <mrdragons> Well, codecs are debatable
[22:06] <traeak> an easy statement: most IT departments can only handle windows. that's inertia. I have to deal with that in some cases
[22:06] <Jaseman> okay forget i said OS....
[22:06] <traeak> mrdragons: OS compared to distribution yeah
[22:06] <Jaseman> windows as a product
[22:06] <Jaseman> as an overall product
[22:06] <Jaseman> in terms of customer satisfaction
[22:07] <traeak> hhe
[22:07] <tntexplo1ivesltd> Jaseman: it serves the general iser well, yes
[22:07] <tntexplo1ivesltd> * user
[22:07] * NIN101 (~NIN@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:07] <Jaseman> right, and then there will be the power users and the elite who use linux
[22:07] <piofcube> Seariously though... I've never heard a non-techy user ever mention how easy/hard it was to install windows... Simply because they either bought the PC with it on or got someone else to install it.
[22:08] <Jaseman> not just install it - just to use it
[22:08] <Jaseman> and have everything just work
[22:09] * NIN102 (~NIN@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:09] <mjr> piofcube, please don't give it an excuse to keep talking
[22:09] <piofcube> And if you look at the games forums you will see many billions of posts showing troubles with playing XYZ game on Windows and how easier it is to play the game on an xbox or ps3
[22:09] <piofcube> mjr: okay... I will shut up now
[22:09] <Jaseman> windows is useless as a games machine
[22:09] <Jaseman> ill agree on that one
[22:09] <mrdragons> Many gamers will fervently disagree with you on that
[22:10] <Jaseman> if you want games get a console
[22:10] <Jaseman> problem is that the hardware isnt standard
[22:10] <Jaseman> i remember on my first pc.. i bought need for speed
[22:11] <Jaseman> and i had an awe32 soundcard
[22:11] <Jaseman> it didnt like that
[22:11] <Jaseman> and i had a hercules video card
[22:11] <Jaseman> it didnt like that either
[22:11] <piofcube> I do think a lot of people would be benefit from being on an adroid device which is a desktop-style form factor. It would do everything they need without the clutter of a normal PC
[22:12] <Jaseman> i think devices may go back to being purpose built
[22:12] <Jaseman> rather than one device that does everything
[22:13] <Jaseman> i mean....
[22:13] <Jaseman> if you want to watch a movie
[22:13] <Jaseman> or listen to music you dont need a pc
[22:13] <Jaseman> take those two away and whats left?
[22:13] <Jaseman> surfing/office/and programming
[22:14] <Plankalkuel> I think that we will go back to exactly that. Most Users will have very cheap devices powerful enough to meet their requirements and professionals using workstations like they did 20 years ago
[22:14] <xlq> [21:04] <piofcube> I dunno... Insert disc... click install ubuntu... click use entire hard disk... wait.. bob's your uncle
[22:14] <xlq> You forgot to remove pulseaudio.
[22:14] <piofcube> xlq: LMAO
[22:14] <Plankalkuel> Which is of course not good (at least for me) because it means that a workstation will cost 5000??? again.
[22:15] <Jaseman> youll have your $25 raspberry dnot worry
[22:16] <Jaseman> most people dont use their computer to its full potential...
[22:16] <Jaseman> think of all the people that went to pc world and bout a core i7
[22:16] <Jaseman> families that have no clue what they are doing
[22:16] <Jaseman> the manager of my office last week....
[22:17] <Jaseman> i said to him..
[22:17] <piofcube> Think how many cabbages you can grow on Farmville with an i7 though
[22:17] <Jaseman> ive saved this on your desktop
[22:17] <Jaseman> he didnt know what the desktop was
[22:17] <Jaseman> i had to explain to him its that part of the screen behind all your programs where the icons are
[22:17] <Plankalkuel> Exactly. But at the moment everyone is subsidizing powerful PCs. Once every normal person is using a 50$ PC the ones that need more power will have to pay a much higher price. Simply because it will be a much smaller market
[22:17] <Jaseman> oh right thats the desktop is it he said
[22:18] <piofcube> My mother still insists on calling the wallpaper the screensaver... tends to cause hair-pulling while doing tech support over the phone.
[22:18] <mrdragons> Plankalkuel: Hmm, didn't think about that
[22:18] <Jaseman> yeah
[22:18] <Jaseman> ive heard that one too
[22:20] <Plankalkuel> mrdragons: Yes. So I hope the PC ist staying as a gaming platform because thats a relatively big market that needs lots of power :)
[22:20] <Jaseman> can you do programming on the PS3?
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Jaseman: It said on the box you could.
[22:21] <Jaseman> i guess they could make a little application for it
[22:21] <piofcube> I said on the box... or somewhere you could install linux on it... *ducks*
[22:21] <piofcube> it*
[22:21] <Jaseman> i mean without installing linux on it
[22:21] <Plankalkuel> You could run Linux on it until they shut that off. But still than you couldn't use all the graphics hardware and stuff.
[22:22] <Jaseman> im sure they could get pyhton to run on it
[22:22] <Plankalkuel> They didn't want people to write free games for it obviously.
[22:22] <Jaseman> yeah i guess theres no market for that
[22:23] <Jaseman> its a real shame that the ps3's web browser is awful
[22:23] <Jaseman> i think if they got the browser right, and added a little basic programming language....
[22:23] <Jaseman> it could blow away the competition
[22:24] <traeak> ps3 is too expensive for what it does
[22:24] <Jaseman> it plays blu ray movies
[22:24] <traeak> when computers like the rpi take off...and they WILL (just a question of how long)
[22:24] <traeak> how will microsoft make their money ?
[22:24] <traeak> you can't charge $500 for software to run on a $50 computer
[22:24] <Jaseman> same way apple does
[22:24] <Jaseman> marketing
[22:25] <Jaseman> its all about marketing
[22:25] <traeak> apple doesn't have a $50 computer they intentionally force a market that's over $1000
[22:25] <Plankalkuel> Until MS-Office can't run on an RPi I wouldn't be to worried about Microsoft :)
[22:25] <piofcube> Compare it with printers... You can get expensive printers which use cheaper cartridges or a practially free printer which uses very expensive cartridges
[22:25] <Jaseman> but if you put white wires on a raspberry and sell it in a fancy box, you could charge more and people would pay
[22:25] <traeak> printers are designed around lockin like this
[22:25] <piofcube> games consoles.. both hardware and software is expensive
[22:26] <Jaseman> especially if you get some pop stars like bono to help promote it
[22:26] <traeak> the intersting part here is to maybe reduce the hardware costs to almost nothing
[22:26] <traeak> then competition is purely in the software realm
[22:26] <traeak> changes the game substantially
[22:27] <Jaseman> hi, im bono and i use the raspberry pi because some of the money you spend goes to feed starving children in africa
[22:27] <Jaseman> just put that advert out
[22:27] <Jaseman> youll sell an extra million raspberries
[22:27] <piofcube> an extra million? we haven't even got 10,000 yet LOL
[22:28] <Jaseman> thats because Bono isn't on board yet!
[22:28] <ReggieUK> lets hope boner never gets on board
[22:28] <piofcube> Ah... The Bono Grid Array... I thought that was already on the board
[22:28] <Plankalkuel> Jaseman: I just want to say: The RPi is a great device and I am all giddy inside because of it but I don't think the RPi in its current form is really powerful enough for the standard user.
[22:29] <ReggieUK> it's not aimed at a standard user
[22:29] <Plankalkuel> Exactly
[22:29] <traeak> Plankalkuel: i'm just hoping it's the first of many (ie: it starts a new technology trend)
[22:29] <Jaseman> we dont know how powerful it is yet
[22:29] <ReggieUK> but then again, it depends on your definition of standard
[22:29] <Jaseman> because none of us have got one
[22:29] <ReggieUK> if it's whizz bang up to date bloat crap, then it'll never be doing that
[22:29] <Jaseman> and as we've already said with a good bit of software....
[22:29] <Jaseman> it might not need to be powerful
[22:29] <Jaseman> just cheap and very useful
[22:29] <Jaseman> and EASY TO USE
[22:29] <Plankalkuel> Well, If it cant run a flashfilled webpage reasonably well I would say: Thats not enough for the standard user
[22:30] <ReggieUK> note to liz: make sure that standard users are warned off
[22:31] <Plankalkuel> :D
[22:32] <Jaseman> we know what the target audience is
[22:32] <piofcube> I think for most users, if the R-Pi used software which stored everything in the cloud and allowed flash, it would do everything they need. I don't mean big games players. Just those that play flash games and do scoial stuff.
[22:32] <Jaseman> poor children that want to learn to write programs
[22:32] <piofcube> Doesn't have to be R-Pi... any cheap platform
[22:32] <ReggieUK> not just poor children
[22:32] <ReggieUK> children
[22:33] <Jaseman> if you have money....
[22:33] <Jaseman> why not buy a better computer?
[22:33] <Jaseman> and stll do the programming on it
[22:33] <ReggieUK> go for it
[22:33] <Jaseman> would make more sense
[22:33] <ReggieUK> how so?
[22:33] <Jaseman> your python scrolly text will be so much smoother
[22:34] <ReggieUK> yeah, cos python is all that you need to know of course
[22:34] <mrdragons> Of course
[22:34] <Jaseman> yep thats right
[22:34] <mrdragons> Python is programmed in python
[22:34] <Thorn_> python sux
[22:34] <Thorn_> sorry i assumed it was uneducated blunt statement time of the night again
[22:35] <Jaseman> thats not the message they want to put out there
[22:35] <Thorn_> is it out yet
[22:35] <ReggieUK> :D
[22:36] <piofcube> I think as people learn programming on the R-Pi... general coding standards will rise above what we are used to these days. Anyone imagine the likes of Java would have happened when RAM and CPU power was limited?
[22:36] <Jaseman> what are you going to be doing Thorn to help educate the youth of today?
[22:36] <Thorn_> i see your statement and raise you 1x java android
[22:36] <Jaseman> teach them C++?
[22:36] <Plankalkuel> Java is not as bad as its reputation
[22:36] <Plankalkuel> At least not anymore
[22:36] <Thorn_> really?
[22:37] <mrdragons> C++ would be good
[22:37] <Thorn_> what's the point of an object oriented language when you can't remove objects then?
[22:37] <Plankalkuel> Or let me rephrase that: Java is horrible, but the JVM is actually to that bad
[22:37] <piofcube> Maybe true but if the typical PC had only a quarter of the RAM... would it still be use-able?
[22:37] <Jaseman> lets not talk about what sucks ok
[22:37] <Jaseman> lets talk about what is great
[22:37] <Kolin> you suck!
[22:37] <mrdragons> Vacuums suck
[22:37] <Jaseman> i hate that negative talk
[22:37] <Thorn_> blackholes suck
[22:37] <ShiftPlusOne> don't get me started on black.... goddamit I am slow at typing today
[22:38] <ReggieUK> I'm great
[22:38] <piofcube> An I thought blackholes just formed null-space where the surrounding matter was blown into it :P
[22:38] <Jaseman> my god......
[22:38] <Jaseman> i just had a scary thought
[22:38] <Thorn_> your god sucks
[22:38] <ReggieUK> blackholes don't suck
[22:38] <Jaseman> the phrase black hole might become un-PC
[22:38] <Thorn_> ReggieUK: ?
[22:38] <Jaseman> because of a possible racist angle
[22:38] <ReggieUK> depends what country you're in
[22:39] <Plankalkuel> piofcube: Java is used on a lot of mobile devices with very little memory. It's all a question of the implementation
[22:39] <Plankalkuel> The JVM on a PC trades a higher memory footprint for faster execution times
[22:39] <Jaseman> its all good
[22:39] <Thorn_> and to date there has never been a usable implementation, Plankalkuel
[22:39] <Jaseman> python java flash windows linux everything
[22:39] <Jaseman> good good good
[22:40] <mrdragons> The word good sucks
[22:40] <ReggieUK> Thorn_, http://astro.airynothing.com/2006/02/black_holes_do_not_suck.html
[22:40] <Jaseman> the word sucks sucks
[22:40] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, take your actual knowledge of astronomy and let us make ignorant sci-fi and media approved statements. >=/
[22:40] <ReggieUK> NO
[22:41] <ReggieUK> trash talk is fine but leave the astronomy out of it
[22:41] <Thorn_> that doesnt make sense
[22:42] <Thorn_> his logic for blackholes not sucking is because we assume anything else with gravity does not 'suck' ?
[22:42] <Thorn_> the sun sucks
[22:42] <Jaseman> lol
[22:42] <Jaseman> madness
[22:42] <piofcube> Plankalkuel: There's many programs written for Java which are just simply appauling. Full of rubbish which just uses up CPU cycles... Compare the type of code which was produced 20 years ago with limited resources and many apps/games today which could never be though of in terms like "very tight code"
[22:42] <Jaseman> right i think ive had enough of this chat room
[22:42] <ReggieUK> it's not 'my logic'
[22:42] <ReggieUK> it's physics :D
[22:42] <Jaseman> dont think its productive to stay here a moment longer
[22:42] <Jaseman> goodnight
[22:43] <mrdragons> nite
[22:43] <ShiftPlusOne> have a good one
[22:43] <Jaseman> wow he said 'good'
[22:43] <Thorn_> get off your highhorse while you're gone
[22:43] <Jaseman> thanks for that
[22:43] <Jaseman> you have a good one too
[22:43] <ReggieUK> g'night
[22:44] * Jaseman (5f93f112@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[22:44] <piofcube> I think learning on the R-Pi might result in people learning to tighten their code by a great deal.
[22:44] <ReggieUK> piofcube, maybe
[22:44] <mjr> wouldn't bet on it, but one can hope ;)
[22:44] <Kolin> if anything it will give kids an interest in programing
[22:44] * djazz (~djazz@78-70-243-240-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has left #raspberrypi
[22:44] <ReggieUK> they'll certainly have to be careful with resources
[22:44] <Thorn_> 256mb is a lot of space to waste
[22:44] <Kolin> which they will then ruin with bad habits
[22:45] <ReggieUK> but you can run doom in 8MB +swap
[22:45] <piofcube> I certainly would add myself as one that could improve vastly on their code
[22:45] <Kolin> on real machines
[22:45] <Plankalkuel> piofcube: But still python seems to be the language of choice. I mean in comparison to python Java is a real rocket :)
[22:45] <ReggieUK> then of course, you're assuming that all apps. will naturally be 256MB size
[22:45] <ReggieUK> where in reality, they probably won't
[22:46] <mrdragons> I dunno, python's pretty slow too tbh
[22:46] <ReggieUK> a few mb here and there
[22:46] <piofcube> Can anyone explain why Firefox requires more than 3GB to compile?
[22:46] <ReggieUK> because someone was lazy?
[22:47] <piofcube> I dunno LOL
[22:47] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, speaking of astronomy... how much would a fairly good telescope cost? For example something like this one here at 0:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1uvIDLm0HA ? I am guessing it varies a lot depending on many things, but what sort of price range is it?
[22:47] <piofcube> But it is just a browser
[22:47] <mjr> I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that, but I do not know it.
[22:47] <Plankalkuel> piofcube: Because it's a pretty big piece of software?
[22:48] <Thorn_> no its not
[22:48] <mrdragons> Why is it so big though? 0_o
[22:48] <Thorn_> it's less functional than lynx
[22:48] <ReggieUK> then again piofcube, you could ask why the hell a kernel + 32mb rootfs takes xx gb for the toolchain and rootfs
[22:48] <piofcube> If it had its own flash player, media player, etc etc etc player built-in I would understand
[22:48] <Plankalkuel> Size has nothing to do with functionality ;)
[22:48] <mrdragons> Firefox actually has more lines of code than the linux kernel atm.
[22:48] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, that guy is awesome, not sure what scope he's got, I Think it might be a vixen
[22:49] <mrdragons> I know that's a bad way to judge code, but, heh
[22:49] <ReggieUK> but the expensive part will probably be that mount he's got there
[22:49] <Thorn_> nah you always judge a codebase by its cat * | wc -l
[22:49] <piofcube> depends on if the cat is dead or alive though
[22:49] <ReggieUK> my bad, it's a takahashi
[22:49] <Plankalkuel> lol
[22:49] <mrdragons> Is it in a box?
[22:50] <Plankalkuel> Yes. And maybe it ate the poison out of free will.
[22:51] <piofcube> Might have been a reaction to previous caller ;-)
[22:51] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, ready for this?
[22:51] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, yup?
[22:51] <Thorn_> $9001
[22:51] <ReggieUK> including VAT the list price in the uk is ??2,622.24
[22:51] <ReggieUK> http://www.green-witch.com/acatalog/Takahashi_TSA-102.html
[22:51] <ShiftPlusOne> jesus, and the mount?
[22:51] <Thorn_> that's about $9001 AUS tbh, i was pretty close
[22:52] <ShiftPlusOne> Thorn_, it's not close at all >=/
[22:52] <ReggieUK> the mount is apparently also takahashi
[22:52] <ReggieUK> EM400
[22:53] <ReggieUK> http://www.green-witch.com/acatalog/EM-400.html
[22:53] <ReggieUK> ??9,044
[22:53] <ShiftPlusOne> O_O
[22:53] <Plankalkuel> Looks very solid though :) Looks Russian ;)
[22:53] <ReggieUK> japanese I believe
[22:54] <ReggieUK> he uses 2 telescopes btw.
[22:54] <ShiftPlusOne> so... few stepper motors won't do?
[22:54] <ReggieUK> the other is a GSO Ritchey Chretien 8"
[22:54] <ReggieUK> http://www.altairastro.com/product.php?productid=16346
[22:54] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, yeah, just 2 would be fine
[22:54] <ReggieUK> steppers that is
[22:55] <ShiftPlusOne> so why so damn expensive?
[22:55] <ReggieUK> because it'll be rock solid
[22:55] <ReggieUK> very, very well engineered
[22:55] <ReggieUK> ??10k mount is pretty much observatory grade
[22:56] <ShiftPlusOne> and is there a point in having equipment like that if you live in the suburbs.... with light polution and all that
[22:56] <ReggieUK> yes
[22:56] <ReggieUK> because that's a portable mount :D
[22:56] <Plankalkuel> :D
[22:56] <ReggieUK> kind of
[22:57] <Plankalkuel> Looks like a lot of schlepping ;)
[22:57] * jmontleon (jmontleon@nat/redhat/x-xrbsonnuxozivyve) Quit (Quit: Done)
[22:57] <ReggieUK> depends how much you like astronomy
[22:57] <ReggieUK> it doesn't ahve to be too much hassle to get to reasonable skies
[22:57] <ReggieUK> and even living in the middle of light pollution can be somewhat mitigated with the right filters
[22:58] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, but considering that an image like that takes many hours to get, I am guessing you'd have to drive to the middle of nowhere quite often =/
[22:58] <ReggieUK> at least with the mount you've got one big lump to show where your money has gone
[22:58] <ReggieUK> nope, you don't have to drive anywhere necessarily
[22:58] <ReggieUK> and it really depends on what you're imaging
[22:59] <ShiftPlusOne> well... say andromeda for the hell of it.
[22:59] <ReggieUK> then no, hours are not necessarily needed
[22:59] <ReggieUK> an hour maybe depending
[23:00] <traeak> about telescopes, i know a guy who got the contract to do the embedded system for these portable truck telescopes
[23:00] <traeak> basically it's a truck which is a telescope platform
[23:00] <traeak> haven't chatted with him in a few year though so dunno what happened
[23:00] <traeak> the direct of it is that an rpi could easily power something like that
[23:00] <ReggieUK> http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg85/SkyAndStuff/?action=view&current=PB_M31.jpg
[23:00] <ReggieUK> my attempt at andromeda
[23:01] <ReggieUK> about 45mins or so worth of data
[23:01] <ShiftPlusOne> and what telescope do you have?
[23:01] <ReggieUK> a ??200 one
[23:01] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, I see it
[23:01] <ReggieUK> william optics zs66 SD apo
[23:01] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.williamoptics.com/telescopes/zenithstar66sd_features.php ?
[23:01] <ShiftPlusOne> yup, got it
[23:02] <ReggieUK> that's the one
[23:02] <mrdragons> I'm not much of a photographer, but those look pretty nice. :)
[23:02] <mrdragons> Er, that
[23:02] <ReggieUK> it's a bit weak tbh
[23:02] <ReggieUK> but it shows intent :D
[23:03] <traeak> buddy of mine has one of those reflective telescopes
[23:03] <traeak> fatter but shorter
[23:03] <ReggieUK> this is my favorite image that I took
[23:03] <traeak> his has a stepper motor
[23:03] <ReggieUK> http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg85/SkyAndStuff/na2.jpg
[23:03] <ReggieUK> I have 2 mounts, one is steppers
[23:03] <ReggieUK> the other is servos
[23:03] <ReggieUK> the stepper based one is better
[23:03] <traeak> nice shots though..how long did you expose these for ?
[23:04] <traeak> i remmeber once we took his telescope up on a ridge south of the city...at the time out of the light pollution zone
[23:04] <ReggieUK> not sure on that one, probably an hour and a halfs worth of shots
[23:04] <ShiftPlusOne> Hmm... think I might invest in a telescope =/
[23:04] <traeak> i mean how long did you leave the aperature open for this shot
[23:05] <traeak> there's a whole community around stabilized shots through telescopes
[23:05] <ReggieUK> that shot is a composite traeak
[23:05] <traeak> ReggieUK: gotcha...so instead of a single aperature opening it's multiple shots processed together
[23:05] <ReggieUK> there's probably 40-50 shots or more so probably 2-3 minutes per shot
[23:05] <mrdragons> You know what would be really interesting?
[23:05] <traeak> ReggieUK: interesting, i woudl think the noise floor would hurt on that
[23:05] <ReggieUK> traeak, yes, the technique is called stacking
[23:06] <ReggieUK> nope, noise is mitigated with 'dark' frames
[23:06] <traeak> 2-3 mins per exposure would definitely help the noise floor
[23:06] <mrdragons> You know those GIFs where it takes two perspectives and flashes back and forth between them to give the effect of 3d? (I forget what they're called
[23:06] <ReggieUK> and flats frames and bias frames
[23:06] <traeak> so basicaly some calibratio of the CCD noise
[23:06] <mrdragons> )
[23:06] <ReggieUK> yes essentially
[23:07] <ReggieUK> well, flats help with dirt on lenses/filters/sensors too
[23:07] <ReggieUK> and vignetting
[23:07] <traeak> sure
[23:07] <mrdragons> It would be awesome if someone did that with space shots, although it would be almost impossible to get enough distance between shots to be effective
[23:07] <traeak> and then "smear" removal etc
[23:07] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, how often do you need to take the dark frames?
[23:07] <ReggieUK> nope, shouldn't need smear removal
[23:07] <traeak> motion compensation i guess (motion of stars)
[23:07] <traeak> the stepper motor is good enough then ?
[23:07] <ReggieUK> you take a set of dark frames for the target in general
[23:08] <ReggieUK> the mounts track at 'sidereal' rate (same rate that the earth spins)
[23:08] <ReggieUK> there is some error in the gears and probably a small amount of error in the polar alignment
[23:09] <ReggieUK> but that can also be tackled using a 2nd scope and a guide camera
[23:09] <ShiftPlusOne> I saw in another darkskyvideos video they were taking shots of just the observatory roof to get the noise profile which I thought was kind of strange =/
[23:09] * NIN101 (~NIN@ Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[23:10] <ReggieUK> guide camera and software are sensitive enough to notice 0.25pixel change in position and move it back to where it was
[23:10] <ReggieUK> explain taking shots of the observatory roof?
[23:10] <ReggieUK> was it completely dark in there when they took the shots?
[23:10] <ShiftPlusOne> just the observatory with the top closed
[23:10] <ReggieUK> like zero lighting at all
[23:11] <ShiftPlusOne> I am no sure, I think they showed the actual roof in the shots
[23:11] <ReggieUK> hmmmmmn, that sounds slightly odd unless it was completely dark
[23:11] <ShiftPlusOne> I'd have to find the video, but it was a recent one
[23:11] <ReggieUK> it sounds like dark frames but if there's any light in there then it will skew the calibration
[23:11] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Tyrh5VqPc
[23:12] <ShiftPlusOne> 9:50
[23:13] <Plankalkuel> Nice to see that other people like Bradys videos too :)
[23:13] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[23:14] <ReggieUK> ok, they're taking flats from about 6:47 onwards, with twilight shots and the roof open, that's defnitely flat
[23:14] * mkopack (~mkopack@184-210-62-10.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[23:14] <ReggieUK> so if you listen from 6:47 it explains it (With an apology to astronomers :D at about 7mins)
[23:14] <ShiftPlusOne> don't know where I got the roof being closed from
[23:15] <ReggieUK> 8:31 he's says 'sky flats'
[23:15] <ReggieUK> and yup, they explain nicely why you take flats and darks every night they do imaging
[23:16] <ReggieUK> because whilst it's all digital, stuff changes :)
[23:16] <ShiftPlusOne> oh right, I was thinking of a 'dome flat'
[23:16] <ShiftPlusOne> I guess
[23:16] <ReggieUK> a dome flat could be with the roof closed and the lights on
[23:16] <ReggieUK> they need the histogram to be about 1/3rd to 2/3rds full
[23:17] * jmontleon (jmontleon@nat/redhat/x-fdxyksbnmarzznmr) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:17] <ReggieUK> 9:40 you get a shot of the 'junk' that the flats are going to be removing when they're applied to the final image
[23:18] <ReggieUK> I'm guessing the circle in the middle is the secondary mirror obstruction
[23:18] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, it looked kind of metalic, which is why I thought it was just the roof, never mind >.>
[23:18] <ReggieUK> crikey
[23:19] <ReggieUK> I think you can even see the stuff the flats will be removing in the unprocessed shot at 11:05
[23:19] <ReggieUK> the 2 circles around the nebula pretty much matches the position of the circles in the flat
[23:21] <ShiftPlusOne> So you'll be using the raspberry pi to control the mount and such?
[23:21] <ReggieUK> maybe :)
[23:22] <ReggieUK> linux support for my mount is pretty lacking right now
[23:22] <ShiftPlusOne> that's not easier and more convenient with a laptop?
[23:22] <ReggieUK> but I could quite easily do the autoguiding with it
[23:22] <ReggieUK> yes and no on the easier and convenient :)
[23:23] <ReggieUK> with a pi or 2 I could run it all off 12v batteries with lower power consumption
[23:23] <ReggieUK> with a laptop I either have to tether to the ac socket or only work for an hour
[23:24] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, makes sense
[23:26] <ShiftPlusOne> What would the eagle nebula look like with an inexpensive telescope? Would the pillars of creation be visible at all?
[23:27] <ShiftPlusOne> or would it just look like some stars?
[23:27] <traeak> hehe looks like a sun keyboard he's using
[23:28] <traeak> openwindows! olvm
[23:28] <traeak> coolio
[23:28] <traeak> sunos ! (not solaris)
[23:31] <ReggieUK> it's a hard question to answer, it depends what you call cheap for a start
[23:32] <ShiftPlusOne> <500 pounds
[23:32] <ReggieUK> but most of the stuff you see in hubble images is just not visible to humans
[23:32] <ReggieUK> our eyes don't gather enough light and the light they do gather, they process it too quickly
[23:33] <ShiftPlusOne> well that's what long exposure times are for... so it's true with any telescope, isn't it?
[23:33] <ReggieUK> yes
[23:34] <ReggieUK> well, kind of
[23:34] <ReggieUK> http://paulandelainephotography.smugmug.com/Astro/Deep-Space/17772758_chDxKg/5/1377194396_4ShrjLp#!i=1377194396&k=4ShrjLp&lb=1&s=A
[23:34] <ReggieUK> that's the scope up from mine
[23:34] <ReggieUK> well under ??500
[23:34] <ReggieUK> I believe that's the pillars in the middle there
[23:34] <ShiftPlusOne> yup, that's them. But you don't get any sort of colour then?
[23:35] <ReggieUK> yes but he's using a mono camera
[23:35] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah, I see in the next image (orion nebula) he has colour.... so why use a mono camera?
[23:35] <ReggieUK> with a mono camera you can do lrgb filters (so 4 sets of images, 1 for red, green, blue and luminance)
[23:36] <ReggieUK> because you can use emmission line filters
[23:36] <ReggieUK> so instead of using a red filter, you use a hydrogen alpha filter
[23:36] <ReggieUK> so you're then only imaging stuff that's got hydrogen in it
[23:37] <ReggieUK> which is what that eagle image is mostly made of
[23:38] <ReggieUK> on the orion shot, he's done RGB for colour and added a HA filter for the luminance channel
[23:38] <ReggieUK> he's got some fantastic detail in there too
[23:38] * Thor (~thor@unaffiliated/thor) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:38] <Thor> Hey everyone..
[23:38] <ShiftPlusOne> these are actual filters you attach to the camera or software?
[23:39] <ShiftPlusOne> Thor, hello
[23:39] <ReggieUK> he's managed to get the trapezium without blowing out the nebula
[23:39] <Thor> Any idea about an optic fiber controller on the RPI board ?
[23:39] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, physical filters that you screw in
[23:39] <Thor> any clue ?
[23:39] <ReggieUK> Thor, there isn't one
[23:39] <Thor> ReggieUK: I know that.
[23:39] <Thor> ReggieUK: What I would like to know is if it were possible to have one.
[23:40] <ShiftPlusOne> are the filters expensive as well? Is astronomy the sort of thing where you think you only need a few things to get started and then you keep buying extras and there's always some better gizmo to get so you lose all your money?
[23:40] <ReggieUK> yup
[23:40] <ReggieUK> well, kind of, you can stop whenever you like :D
[23:40] <ReggieUK> but like any addiction, a glass one is hard to break
[23:41] <ShiftPlusOne> but then you won't get a slightly better image?
[23:41] <Thor> Actually I would like to try to do a grid-computer with a few RPI
[23:41] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, http://www.firstlightoptics.com/narrowband/baader-narrowband-ccd-emission-line-h-alpha-filters-2.html
[23:41] <ReggieUK> those are the bottom end really
[23:41] <ReggieUK> for 2" filters
[23:42] <Thor> but with only one ethernet Mbs port, this is merely impossible.
[23:42] <traeak> hehe, i've never been much into photography or astronomy
[23:42] <traeak> casually interested in "that's cool" but not much more hehe
[23:42] <ShiftPlusOne> O_O.... I think I'll keep my astronomy interest limited to looking at purdy pictures online then. =)
[23:43] <Thor> So I came here to know if the board buses could afford the necessary speed for a Gigabit ethernet connection or even an optic fiber one.
[23:43] <Plankalkuel> Thor: Well I mean the purpose of that would only be for educational purposes I think and I guess for that it should work?
[23:43] * CustomTronics (~mjtessmer@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:43] <Plankalkuel> Because I don't think a RPi-Grid would be really useful to do any work
[23:43] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, you don't have to go nuts with stuff
[23:43] <ReggieUK> you can get away with a DSLR camera and a light pollution filter
[23:43] <Thor> Plankalkuel: I don't know, I have never tried.
[23:44] <Thor> Plankalkuel: but I think with a quite important quantity of RPIs you could replace your PC...
[23:44] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, sure, but then I'd see images like that guy has and want more gizmos... I know me.
[23:44] <Thor> Plankalkuel: if, of course, if the network speed is high enough for that.
[23:45] <Plankalkuel> Thor: Maybe but I think you would need so many that it would cost more than a comparable PC and it would use more power
[23:45] <Thor> no, not more power.
[23:45] <Plankalkuel> And of course you can only use it for things that can be computed in a grid.
[23:46] <Thor> with 100 RPI, you use 250W with the A version, and 350W with a B version.
[23:46] <Thor> (At peak)
[23:46] <Thor> And you would have 100 700MHz processors
[23:47] <Thor> and 100 times 250 MB of ram (with the B version)
[23:47] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:47] <Thor> It would cost $3500
[23:47] <Thor> But you can spread your RPIs almost anywhere in your house.
[23:47] <Plankalkuel> Yes, but you can't just add it up like that.
[23:47] <Thor> Given these can be plugged into the network.
[23:48] <Thor> Plankalkuel: I know, parallel execution is not the same thing.
[23:48] <Thor> But I would be very interested in some experimentation about that.
[23:48] <Thor> Even with less RPI cards
[23:48] <Thor> (like 10 or 20 at start)
[23:49] <Plankalkuel> Yes. Me too. But as I said: I would consider that as an experiment to learn something about grid computing and not necessarily something where I will get a really useful product
[23:49] <traeak> ReggieUK: all you need are kids around to tear up your nice astonomy stuff
[23:49] <ReggieUK> ummm, don't have children?
[23:49] <traeak> hehe
[23:50] <Plankalkuel> ReggieUK: Always a good option ;)
[23:50] <ReggieUK> or threaten them with broken limbs if they touch your astro gear
[23:50] * roman3x (~roman3x@adsl-dyn24.91-127-82.t-com.sk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:50] <traeak> lovely, have to implement the smoothing filter (yuk)
[23:50] <traeak> that doesn't stop my son sadly
[23:50] <ReggieUK> I'm lucky (sort of) my son is 15 and doesn't live here
[23:51] <ReggieUK> so not much chance of him breaking stuff
[23:51] <ReggieUK> + it all gets put away when not in use
[23:51] <traeak> yeah, he's at the age where this stuff is cool
[23:51] <ReggieUK> unless I'm modding something
[23:51] <traeak> instead of the tiny parts and stuff being cool
[23:51] <Thor> Plankalkuel: that wouldn't necessary be a useful product, indeed.
[23:52] <Thor> Plankalkuel: but with fast enough connection ports, maybe it could become an alternative to one PC...
[23:52] * jmontleon (jmontleon@nat/redhat/x-fdxyksbnmarzznmr) Quit (Quit: Done)
[23:52] <Thor> with way more scalable power and price...
[23:53] <Thor> I agree that this would probably be very long and very difficult to create...
[23:53] <Thor> But well, it would need a fast connection port in any case...
[23:53] <Thor> even for experimentation
[23:54] <Plankalkuel> And you would have to write most of the software from scratch
[23:55] <Thor> yep, also.
[23:55] <Plankalkuel> But I agree. It's an interesting field to experiment with
[23:56] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, one more question... many images I see look very grainy. High resolution, but grainy. What's up with that?
[23:57] <Thor> Plankalkuel: :)
[23:59] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) Quit (Excess Flood)
[23:59] <Thor> Plankalkuel: and so, what I need to know for now is : is it even worth the time, because if the RPI board can't manage a Gigabit ethernet or an optic fiber connection, this is completely useless
[23:59] * doug_ndndn (~doug@2001:470:1f09:18c8:219:d2ff:fe3d:7524) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> It can't.
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> The ethernet is hung off USB
[23:59] <Plankalkuel> Thor: Thats what I would assume also
[23:59] <Thor> SpeedEvil: thanks :)
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Expect at best 30 megabytes/s

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