#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-03-02

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <raaaaspi> It can't be that educational, because a lot of the functionality can only be done through a gertboard
[0:00] <GabrialDestruir> It can be used for coding.
[0:00] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: It's intended to be used for programming
[0:00] * vyckaa (~vytenis@82.128.187.245) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:00] <GabrialDestruir> Teaching people the structure of code, how it works, how to compile it, etc.
[0:01] <raaaaspi> Even if it takes a couple of days to compile your code? :P
[0:01] <crackm> ehhm structure of code is something you need to find out yourslef ...
[0:01] <crackm> *yourself
[0:01] <zleap> ok just made 2 gparted cds
[0:01] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: Umh, 700MHz with a powerful GPU isn't anything to sneeze at
[0:01] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@bl15-148-243.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:01] * [deXter] (dexter@79.133.200.37) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:01] <raaaaspi> zleap: the pi doesn't have a cd drive :P
[0:02] <zleap> this is so i can resize a partition on an sd card (see liams tutorials)
[0:02] <zleap> plus its something useful to have anyway
[0:02] <raaaaspi> OneFix_Work: I will sneeze on whatever I please, thank you very much
[0:02] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: The Pi can only boot from the SD card...there is a bootstrap on the SD card...which means the rPi is also impossible to "brick"
[0:02] * swiley (~swiley@143.sub-75-243-109.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[0:02] * raaaaspi sneezes
[0:02] <weasel> bless you
[0:03] * grumpyoldgit (~grumpyold@88-108-116-65.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/)
[0:03] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[0:03] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: The rPi doesn't really have anything that's the equivalent of a "BIOS"
[0:04] <raaaaspi> It would be nice if you could boot of external media though
[0:05] <zleap> maybe that is for later versions
[0:05] <zleap> but to me that just adds more complexity to the device
[0:05] <raaaaspi> Well without a bios, it'd be a bit tricky to do
[0:05] * jamesd257 (51aefaee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.250.238) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: Yea, but the extra components needed to do it would have raised the price...then no more $25 price-point.
[0:06] <zleap> well for what the device is designed for, why would i need to boot to other devices
[0:06] <xlq> What's the difference between a price and a "price point" ?
[0:06] <raaaaspi> xlq: a price point is an estimate
[0:06] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:07] <OneFix_Work> zleap: Not really...the SD card bootstrap serves the same purpose...presumably there will be a utility at some point in time to build your own bootstrap which can turn on/off features based on your project
[0:07] <jamesd257> does anyone know if the A model is less high because of the lack of ethernet and one less USB
[0:07] <xlq> Why would booting from other media require extra hardware?
[0:07] <jamesd257> less high=thinner
[0:07] * imnichol (~ian@8.24.97.104) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:07] <raaaaspi> I'd like to boot off an external hdd. It make's me a bit uneasy to think of having swap space on an sd card
[0:08] <xlq> Yeah, USB + USB + RJ45 height is horrible.
[0:08] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:08] <oldtopman> raaaaspi: Then don't put swap there.
[0:08] <xlq> raaaaspi: Firstly I'd like to point out that only the boot stuff, kernel and initramfs need to be on the SD card.
[0:08] <raaaaspi> oldtopman: You're sort of required to because of the amount of ram
[0:08] <OneFix_Work> jamesd256: That's the main difference. The Model "B" has a chip that ads a USB "hub" and an Ethernet port. Then you have the cost of the ports themselves.
[0:09] <oldtopman> raaaaspi: I'm running slackware on mine. I really don't need more than 128MB ram
[0:09] <xlq> You can configure Linux to use whatever for the root filesystem, and for swap.
[0:09] <xlq> oldtopman: slamd64?
[0:09] <xlq> Oh wait, no, Slackware actually got an ARM port :)
[0:09] <oldtopman> mhm
[0:09] <hamitron> armedslack
[0:09] <hamitron> ;/
[0:09] <oldtopman> ^
[0:09] <xlq> Uh, that's what I meant btw :P
[0:09] <raaaaspi> oldtopman: any modern browser uses a ridiculous amount of ram.
[0:09] <jamesd257> OneFix: sorry I wasn't clearer, I mean the physical height/width of the unit
[0:09] <hamitron> not sure it support the correct version of ARM?
[0:10] <zleap> i am sure it will get ported though
[0:10] <hamitron> yeh
[0:10] <jamesd257> xlq: i don't understand your response. Do you know if the A model is slimmer or not?
[0:10] <oldtopman> raaaaspi: In all seriousness, I'm sure I'll manage. Not to mention that I'm never farther than a foot from my ipod/phone/droid/etc
[0:10] <hamitron> its focus has been devices like the slug
[0:10] <zleap> once you have enough people with these things then the right communities will build up
[0:10] <GabrialDestruir> YEs
[0:11] <GabrialDestruir> Logically the Model A would have less height
[0:11] <raaaaspi> oldtopman: speaking of droid, do you think someone will replicate the functionality of nandroid backups on android?
[0:11] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] <zleap> can the education model only be bought by schools
[0:11] <oldtopman> raaaaspi: What do you mean by that?
[0:11] <GabrialDestruir> Since it has only a single USB instead of two on top of each other, and has no ethernet port, there is no reason for it to have the same height as the Model B
[0:12] <OneFix_Work> xlq: The problem is the USB ports and the ethernet port all share a single USB port on the ARM chip, so the performance of any USB attached storage is going to be less than optimal...not to mention that we still don't know how the extra ship on the Model-B will perform when all of the USB ports are running wide-open.
[0:12] <raaaaspi> oldtopman: nevermind
[0:12] <GabrialDestruir> He wants to know if there will be a CWM Recovery Port, oldtopman
[0:12] <oldtopman> GabrialDestruir: For the raspberry pi?
[0:12] * pizthewiz_ (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] <oldtopman> Why?
[0:12] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@91.85.220.26) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[0:12] <oldtopman> It's all on an SD card, and there's no BIOS.
[0:13] <oldtopman> What's to backup?
[0:13] <chrisjunkie> What I want to know is if they are going to produce a version with headers instead of all the actual connectors
[0:13] <GabrialDestruir> I'm assuming that's what he meant yes. I see no purpose in it though, you could always just plug the SD card into the computer and make a backup before hacking.
[0:13] <chrisjunkie> I may want to expose USB ports etc internally inside a case
[0:13] <xlq> jamesd257: Presumably it is slimmer, but I can't say for certain. I was just expressing my dislike for towering USB+RJ45 connectors seen on PandaBoard etc.
[0:14] <zleap> chrisjunkie, so you can attach in side a case and have the usb port on the outside of the case with a cable between the two
[0:14] <xlq> OneFix_Work: Yeah, but it's still easy to do though.
[0:14] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-168-9.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has left #raspberrypi
[0:14] <Gadget-Mac> chrisjunkie: I asked that on the forum, and was told probably not
[0:14] <chrisjunkie> zleap: no, more have the USB port itself inside the case
[0:14] <chrisjunkie> Gadget-Mac: ah ok
[0:14] <chrisjunkie> not the end of the world
[0:14] <Gadget-Mac> tbh, you could probably unsolder
[0:14] <zleap> ok
[0:14] <OneFix_Work> chris_99: Probably not, You could do it yourself with a little soldering.
[0:14] * pizthewiz_ (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:14] <chrisjunkie> OneFix_Work: yeah, might not be that easy for 100-500 units :P
[0:15] * pizthewiz_ (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] <hamitron> only takes a little longer
[0:15] <hamitron> ;/
[0:15] <weasel> xlq: if the current drawing on the webpage is to be trusted, it's now an USB-LAN tower but two distinct blocks
[0:15] <GabrialDestruir> I want to see someone bring my idea for a case to life
[0:15] <weasel> s/now/not/
[0:15] <GabrialDestruir> It'd be awesome .-.
[0:15] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:15] * pizthewiz_ is now known as pizthewiz
[0:16] <raaaaspi> an original gameboy would be the best case imo
[0:16] <OneFix_Work> chris_99: And if there was enough interest, someone could start buying the stock boards, making the modifications, and then selling it at a slight markup.
[0:16] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: What's your idea for a case?
[0:16] <chrisjunkie> yeah true
[0:18] * Nemykal (~kagamin@124-168-57-37.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:18] <GabrialDestruir> It'd be like one of the case ideas they already have.
[0:18] <GabrialDestruir> Something like http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=14195&
[0:18] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: You know that you can upload your own CAD models to Shapeways and they will make one for you...
[0:19] * Nemykal (~kagamin@210-84-3-23.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:19] <Gadget-Mac> chrisjunkie: Not sure if the change of production might open up the possibility of  a connectorless run
[0:19] <zleap> that case looks nice
[0:19] <GabrialDestruir> But instead of leaving those two exposde, it'd plug into them, one would lead to a built in Wifi, another to a built in hub
[0:19] <zleap> I would need a case so I can use this at the after school club I work at
[0:19] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: That would be plugging a hub into a hub...not recommended
[0:20] <GabrialDestruir> Well to get more than two ports you're going to have to use a HUB anyways.
[0:20] <jamesd257> does anyone know if the A model is thinner because of the lack of ethernet and one less USB
[0:20] * ceng (ceng@newelite.bshellz.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:20] <GabrialDestruir> jamesd257, most likely
[0:20] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: As I said, the Model-B already has a hub built onto the board
[0:21] <oddie> I would buy one of those cases
[0:21] <jamesd257> thanks
[0:21] <zleap> yeah keyboard + mouse will take up both ports, leaving none for say external uisb sticks
[0:21] <zleap> usb
[0:21] <jamesd257> anyone know for sure?
[0:21] <GabrialDestruir> Right, but you only get on additional port. That may not be enough for some poeple :p
[0:21] <GabrialDestruir> one*
[0:21] <weasel> are there photos of what the current B model board looks like?
[0:21] <Gadget-Mac> chrisjunkie: You're best bet would be to get model A, and just remove the single USB connector
[0:22] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: I'm going to guess that adding 2 more port would leave too little power for the connected devices...so you would probably have to power your 2nd hub in the case...
[0:22] <GabrialDestruir> Hold on
[0:22] <GabrialDestruir> Got that covered
[0:22] * afief (~quassel@46-116-187-23.bb.netvision.net.il) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:22] <jamesd257> the main site has been down so long now
[0:23] <jamesd257> did they not realise?
[0:23] <jamesd257> bad planning
[0:23] <GabrialDestruir> With my design a port gets dedicated to Wifi you put in another 3 ports into the case however possible, then the case would plug into the power port and have another MicroUSB so that the case would power both the Device and the HUB
[0:24] <GabrialDestruir> Depending on the EXACT design you might need an ethernet extender so that's still accessible, but overall it'd allow more functionality just by adding a case.
[0:24] <ReggieUK> jamesd256, I'm sure they realised, people will cope for a couple of days or so without the website
[0:24] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: I'm not sure the power would work out...or you would end up burning out your Micro-USB power supplies real quick...
[0:24] <ReggieUK> it's not like anyone read the fscking FAQ or wiki anyway :D
[0:24] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] <jamesd257> um, don't think so ReggieUK: "The full site will return once traffic levels have subsided, hopefully later on today"
[0:25] <jamesd257> same message since the BBC announcement
[0:25] <GabrialDestruir> You'd only need a 2A power cord.
[0:25] <GabrialDestruir> Maybe 1.5
[0:25] <zleap> jamesd256, yeah it said that yesterday
[0:25] <GabrialDestruir> It shouldn't be a lot.
[0:25] <weasel> the webpage also still says that if the distributors' websites claim not to have the HW to check back in a few _hours_
[0:26] <zleap> rs are awaiting for delivery
[0:26] <zleap> after which they will let people know and we can buy em i guess
[0:27] <jamesd257> anyone here have a 3d printer who is planning to design/print an enclosure?
[0:27] <GabrialDestruir> Or you could swap it completely and go with sometheing more akin to a router charger maybe
[0:28] <zleap> how long would the rasp PI run off batteries for ?
[0:29] <GabrialDestruir> Depends on the batteries....
[0:29] <zleap> ok
[0:29] <des2> The PI draws 700ma
[0:29] <GabrialDestruir> someone was doing calculations and supposedly it'll only run on 2AA batteries for like a few minutes
[0:29] <raaaaspi> 3 watts wasn't it?
[0:29] <des2> So with a 2500ma AA (4 batteries in series) pack. WOuld last about 4 hours
[0:29] <ReggieUK> jamesd256, what does that mean? They seem to have understood that the site traffic would be busy, they'll turn it all back to normal once the traffic has calmed down
[0:29] <OneFix_Work> des2: Actually, the Model-A is supposed to draw less than that
[0:29] <GabrialDestruir> I believe last night the number was give 96 Watts per day
[0:30] <ReggieUK> ergo, the traffic hasn't calmed down yet!
[0:30] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:30] <GabrialDestruir> For Model B
[0:30] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:30] <jamesd257> zleap: 4 x 2540 NimH 1.2V = 39 hours at 300mA and 16 hours at 700mA
[0:30] <GabrialDestruir> that was given*
[0:30] <zleap> thats pretty good eh, esp compared to a netbook which is 2 hours +
[0:30] <ReggieUK> how will they do on 2400mah 12v?
[0:30] <des2> 4 hours not 16
[0:30] <raaaaspi> ReggieUK: It's not very professional, but understandable if they don't have the funds for a better server
[0:30] <ksx4system> what was dev channel? #raspberrypi-dev?
[0:30] <OneFix_Work> The Model A is supposed to draw 500mA
[0:31] <jamesd257> lets do the maths shall we?
[0:31] <des2> So about 5 hours for a 4-AA in series 2500mAH pack
[0:31] <weasel> all the image I can find of the model b have the pins lead out for P1.
[0:31] <GabrialDestruir> Well 6,000 mAh is supposed to only get about 8 hours.
[0:31] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:31] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:32] <weasel> do we know if the produced modules will really have the pins for duart and stuff?
[0:32] <OneFix_Work> And my guess is that whenever said utility to "tune" the bootstrap is available, you will probably be able to turn off certain features that you don't need to get a lower draw on power
[0:32] <ReggieUK> again, I will refer back to a handful of people that raised all the initial capital themselves, they're not webmasters, they have day jobs, it's not biggie if the main site is not available for a few days, right now they're interested in people getting simple information about the pi
[0:32] <weasel> ISTR I read they wouldn't be there
[0:32] <ReggieUK> not wading through the forum complaining how crap it is :D
[0:32] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ip6-27-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] <raaaaspi> ReggieUK: Well, they said from the start that they haven't had any problems with gaining funding, which was why they didn't do pre-orders originally
[0:33] <jamesd257> 2450 * 1.2 * 4 = 11,760 mWh
[0:33] * GabrialDestruir- (47a02a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.160.42.116) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] <zleap> does anyone know if there is a console utilty to display impress presentations
[0:33] <GabrialDestruir-> Apparently my logs are too numerous....
[0:33] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@pool-71-160-42-116.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:33] <OneFix_Work> zleap: Not really, you will still need X to display graphics
[0:34] <jamesd257> 11,760 / 700 = 16.8
[0:34] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@pool-71-160-42-116.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] <raaaaspi> OneFix_Work: Would you need X for a simple led display?
[0:34] <zleap> ok
[0:34] <des2> How would you connect the LED ?
[0:34] <GabrialDestruir-> GPIO
[0:34] <jamesd257> so at 700mW, you get 16,8 hours from 4 x 2450 mAh NimH
[0:35] <des2> james you can't ass the 2450
[0:35] <OneFix_Work> zleap: Now, there are a few command line options you can pass to Impress...
[0:35] <des2> add rather
[0:35] * BasketOfKittens (ae5c5636@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.92.86.54) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:35] <des2> cause the batteries need to be in series
[0:35] <GabrialDestruir-> oh led display...
[0:35] <GabrialDestruir-> lol
[0:35] <jamesd257> des2: no
[0:35] <BasketOfKittens> hello
[0:35] <mrdragons> Ah, nice to see everything's back to normal-ish here. ^_^
[0:35] * peteyg (~pyg@d205-250-124-110.bchsia.telus.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:35] <zleap> my local rugby club want one of these rolling display things, so the rasp pI would be good for that, flick through pages like a presentation, fixtures, photos, events etc
[0:35] <ReggieUK> oooh kittens
[0:35] <jamesd257> each battery has an energy value in watt hours or joules
[0:35] <BasketOfKittens> are the Raspberry Pi folks all good? didn't hear from them today
[0:36] <ReggieUK> I'm sure they're just fine
[0:36] <jamesd257> this is calculated by multiplying the voltage times the amp hours, or mAH
[0:36] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@pool-71-160-42-116.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:36] <des2> Yes but ma isn't energy it is current
[0:36] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: You wouldn't need it for an LED, but you would have to probably write custom code to control it.
[0:36] <jamesd257> des2: correct, ma is current, but mah is not
[0:36] <des2> If you put 4 2500 mAh batteries in series you get one ~5v 2500 maHbattery
[0:37] <ReggieUK> mah is current over time
[0:37] <jamesd257> watt hours is energy, this is what you worry about
[0:37] <zleap> OneFix_Work, on will look in to command line parameters
[0:37] * impost3r (~77yy@cpc1-stav10-0-0-cust101.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] <jamesd257> des2: NO
[0:37] <raaaaspi> Are all these energy calculations assuming 100% efficiency?
[0:37] <BasketOfKittens> when are everyone's preorders getting in?
[0:37] <des2> Yes but you can't power the PI with 1.2 v
[0:37] <zleap> i guess if I stop non essential stuff starting up to save memory i can get it working
[0:37] <Gadget-Mac> I'm with des2 on this one
[0:37] <barr5790> im siding with des2 here, 4 batteries in series have the same current passing through them
[0:37] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: 2 months for mine D:
[0:37] <ReggieUK> BasketOfKittens, 23rd april for me
[0:37] <OneFix_Work> BasketOfKittens: I would assume that they are busy doing their day jobs, doing interviews, and making sure the production/distribution is going fine right now
[0:37] <BasketOfKittens> hah yep me too, april 23
[0:38] <BasketOfKittens> TBH i've had digikey backorders that last for 6 months
[0:38] <OneFix_Work> Mine is May 10th
[0:38] <BasketOfKittens> 2 months is plenty fine with me :)
[0:38] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@pool-71-160-42-116.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] <GabrialDestruir> Okay finally .-.
[0:38] <GabrialDestruir> 6Ah * 3.7V = 20Wh or so. With an appropriate power converter - 8h or so
[0:38] <raaaaspi> OneFix_Work: From what I've seen the distribution is out of there hands, and whoever was controlling the twitter didn't have a clue as to what was going on.
[0:38] <jamesd257> no one said you power it with 1.2 v
[0:38] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ip6-27-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:38] <jamesd257> you power it with 4 x 1.2 v
[0:39] <jamesd257> but each cell has an amount of energy in joules, or watt hours
[0:39] <BasketOfKittens> the whole distribution process could have been more transparent but i understand it would be difficult to work with suppliers and everything
[0:39] <BasketOfKittens> that being said i was pretty cranky at 1 AM that day :)
[0:39] <des2> RIght and all the batteries in the series pack are supplying current simultaneously
[0:39] <des2> SO they are all supplying 700ma
[0:39] <jamesd257> if you want to calculate watt hours from milliamp hours, you multiply this by the voltage
[0:39] <jamesd257> look, it's not rocket science
[0:39] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: Apparently they warned the distributors, but they dismissed it out of hand, probably assuming the demand would be much lower dispite the evidence
[0:39] <Gadget-Mac> jamesd257: Ok, put the maths up, lets see :)
[0:40] <des2> You see I'm an electrical engineer.
[0:40] <jamesd257> each battery can supply 2450 * 1.2 mWh
[0:40] <barr5790> Im a EEE undergrad :P
[0:40] <Gadget-Mac> I'm a rocket scientist
[0:40] <jamesd257> Gagdet-Mac: I already did
[0:40] <GabrialDestruir> Oh ffs
[0:40] <GabrialDestruir> I'm GOD
[0:40] <Gadget-Mac> jamesd257: Ok, but just humour me
[0:40] <GabrialDestruir> You're all trumped
[0:40] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: In a way, yes...but they are still facilitating the relationship between manufacturing and distribution. It would also be kewl to hear that they were sending the GertBoard to production. It may also be that they are trying to find another manufacturer that would be willing to make the boards to increase capacity...
[0:40] <GabrialDestruir> leave it at that.
[0:40] <raaaaspi> I'm a brain surgeon.
[0:40] <jamesd257> sigh
[0:40] <des2> 2500 mAh is the energy the battery can supply
[0:41] <Gadget-Mac> jamesd257: so at 700mW, you get 16,8 hours from 4 x 2450 mAh NimH
[0:41] <jamesd257> lol, des2, no it's not
[0:41] <jamesd257> mah is not energy
[0:41] <Gadget-Mac> But you don't need 700mW
[0:41] <jamesd257> mwh is
[0:41] <jamesd257> BASIC
[0:41] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] <raaaaspi> OneFix_Work: Is there any evidence about whether the gertboard is anymore more than an idea at this point?
[0:41] <des2> Well we know the battery voltage james
[0:41] <jamesd257> to get from mah to mwh you multiply by the votage
[0:41] <des2> So it's effectively the enrrgy
[0:41] <raaaaspi> *anything
[0:41] <jamesd257> no it's not des2
[0:41] <Gadget-Mac> you need 3500mW
[0:41] <des2> You jsut multiply by 1.25
[0:41] <jamesd257> mah is not energy
[0:41] <GabrialDestruir> There are videos on youtube showing work on the gertboard
[0:41] <BasketOfKittens> i think it's just a cool idea
[0:41] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: Yea, there is a prototype and there are designs for building one.
[0:42] <jamesd257> energy is watt seconds, look it up
[0:42] <GabrialDestruir> but it's not being distributed
[0:42] <des2> Yes I know.
[0:42] <jamesd257> lol
[0:42] <Gadget-Mac> jamesd257: Where did you get 700mW from ?
[0:42] <BasketOfKittens> FTTB it's probably easier just to use an arduino
[0:42] <BasketOfKittens> for GPIO stuff
[0:42] <raaaaspi> OneFix_Work: Yes there are designs on the wiki.. But beyond that.. They haven't really said anything
[0:42] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/raspberry-pi-announces-the-gertboard-expansion-board-20111215/
[0:42] <jamesd257> 700mw is a guess. I know perfectly well it will vary from 300 up to 700mw
[0:42] <Gadget-Mac> No, it's 700ma
[0:42] <jamesd257> 700 is worst case
[0:42] <jamesd257> no gadget-mac
[0:42] <Gadget-Mac> from the wiki http://elinux.org/Rpi_Hardware
[0:43] <jamesd257> it depends if you power a screen or not
[0:43] <GabrialDestruir> rPi with a gertboard will outclass an Arduino
[0:43] <Gadget-Mac> wtf
[0:43] <xlq> mWh is energy
[0:43] <raaaaspi> OneFix_Work: That's from last year though
[0:43] <OneFix_Work> jamesd256: The Model B is 700mA and the Model A is 500mA
[0:43] <jamesd257> onefix: no
[0:43] <BasketOfKittens> i meant rpi+arduino
[0:43] <BasketOfKittens> untuil we can get a gerboard
[0:43] <OneFix_Work> raaaaspi: Yea, but they had to get the boards produced
[0:43] <jamesd257> it depends what is happening in the board
[0:43] <jamesd257> xlq: thank you
[0:43] <curahack> WTF I JUST GOT A EMAIL SAYING I CAN ONLY ORDER 1 AND THEY WILL REFUND THE REST :'(
[0:43] <GabrialDestruir> The Gertboard also has to be refined.
[0:43] <jamesd257> someone finally knows the basics
[0:44] <jamesd257> mah != energy
[0:44] <OneFix_Work> jamesd256: True, that's also why it COULD take less power
[0:44] <Gadget-Mac> 700mW would be lets see 140ma
[0:44] <jamesd257> mwh = energy
[0:44] <des2> You can only order one currahack
[0:44] <jamesd257> onefix: the power drawn will depend on the load. period
[0:44] <xlq> mAh is energy in as much as miles/hour is energy. It isn't. :P
[0:44] <Gadget-Mac> jamesd257: I'm not disputing what mwh us
[0:44] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:44] <Gadget-Mac> but where did you get 700mW from
[0:44] <curahack> f*, I'm going to place orders on all the family members I can gather :O
[0:44] <jamesd257> gadget, no but des2 is
[0:44] <raaaaspi> energy is mass times light squared
[0:44] * jthunder (~jthunder@174.3.126.51) Quit (Quit: jthunder)
[0:44] <jamesd257> 700mw is an estimate, a worse case
[0:44] <Gadget-Mac> 3.5W is worse case
[0:45] <BasketOfKittens> it sucks that you could order more than one, some dude on /r/raspberry_pi said he ordered 50 :(((
[0:45] <des2> So pick a nuber you'd like to use for average case
[0:45] <jamesd257> i mean for general use, for the purpose of an example
[0:45] <GabrialDestruir> Your figures are seriously wrong .-.
[0:45] <raaaaspi> speed of light rather
[0:45] <OneFix_Work> Gadget-Mac: 3.5W is worse case for the Model B, but the Model A will be 2.5W
[0:45] <des2> Let's use 2.5 watts then
[0:45] <Gadget-Mac> ok, thats good for me
[0:45] <des2> Let's use 2 watts for the Model A
[0:45] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: Don't trust people on the internet. They're full of shit.
[0:45] <jamesd257> why? that doesn't make sense
[0:45] <BasketOfKittens> but no one lies on the internet!!
[0:46] <Gadget-Mac> jamesd257: explain!
[0:46] <des2> So in one hour you need 2 Watt hour of energy.
[0:46] <GabrialDestruir> 700mA is worse case.... which is on ModelB if you're using both USB ports with no powered hub.... but that isn't the same as W .-.
[0:46] <ReggieUK> some asshat was selling 10 non-existant pi boards on ebay yesterday
[0:46] <barr5790> 4 cells in series giving ~5V. Each cell has a mAh rating of 2500, assuming an average usage current of 400mA, (guesstimate) each cell can produce this current for (2500mAh/400mA) = 6hours.
[0:46] <ReggieUK> $95 a pop
[0:46] <BasketOfKittens> ughhh
[0:46] <jamesd257> there are well established patterns of usage for calculating machine battery life, maximal power consumption over large periods is NOT how it's done, lol
[0:46] <BasketOfKittens> i hope they get taken down
[0:46] <OneFix_Work> If you want the specs for the rPi, they can be found here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
[0:46] <des2> Now lets take a 2500 mAh battery
[0:47] <BasketOfKittens> i'm curious to see if we'll see chinese ripoffs
[0:47] <des2> That rating useually is at the 'one hour rate'
[0:47] <ReggieUK> only if the chinese can decap a pi when they eventually get one and steal the broadcom design
[0:47] <OneFix_Work> BasketOfKittens: Not likely, since they won't be able to get the BroadCom SOC without a license
[0:47] <des2> Meaking for a single hour it can supply 2500mA continuously
[0:47] <jamesd257> barr7790: NO NO NO
[0:47] <des2> The voltage is about 1.26V
[0:47] <zleap> if rs and farnell are building them here how did the get round the import duty thing tha waqs why these initial 10k were built in china
[0:47] <des2> So P = VxI
[0:48] <jamesd257> you did not include the voltage in your calculation: WRONG
[0:48] <Gadget-Mac> zleap: cos they'll get them built in china
[0:48] <zleap> ah
[0:48] <des2> So it can supplly 1.25 * 2500 watts total (at one hour rate)
[0:48] <jamesd257> des2: forget power! think in joules or watt seconds
[0:48] <GabrialDestruir> 2500 mAh at a consumption rate of 500mA = 3.5 Hours
[0:48] <GabrialDestruir> ffs
[0:48] <jamesd257> Gabrial: NO
[0:48] <BasketOfKittens> i feel like we will see a bunch of "OMG BETTER THAN RPI" vaporware
[0:48] <jamesd257> you did not include the voltage in your calculation: WRONG
[0:48] <zleap> Gadget-Mac, at different places i guess
[0:48] <BasketOfKittens> but it takes dedication to get this shit to market
[0:48] <ReggieUK> zleap, because in the small quantity that they wanted them built, the uk fabs doing it just couldn't meet the costs
[0:48] <xlq> No, 5 hours
[0:49] <zleap> so as the uk places will be buiildingf lots its cheaper
[0:49] <zleap> i get it
[0:49] <xlq> how the !#!$ did you get 3.5 hours from 2500 mAh and 500 mA?
[0:49] <GabrialDestruir> http://easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/battery-life.php
[0:49] <des2> So that's 3906mW
[0:49] <des2> or 3.9 W
[0:49] <GabrialDestruir> I used an online calculator
[0:49] <GabrialDestruir> sheesh
[0:49] <ReggieUK> BasketOfKittens, theres already been numerous devices purported to be better than pi
[0:49] <jamesd257> you don't need calculators, it's dead simple
[0:49] <ReggieUK> all of them missing the main point
[0:49] <Gadget-Mac> GabrialDestruir: Thats handy
[0:49] <raaaaspi> ReggieUK: But they're 10x more expensive
[0:49] <des2> Since that lasts for 1 hour the total energy is 3.9Whour
[0:49] <ReggieUK> raaaaspi, exactly
[0:49] <BasketOfKittens> that whole Allwinner A10 thing?
[0:50] <jamesd257> let's break it down again:
[0:50] <BasketOfKittens> vaporware
[0:50] <BasketOfKittens> 100%
[0:50] <des2> So each battery ias 3.9Whour of energy
[0:50] <barr5790> You dont need to include voltage in my calculation. I only mentioned 5V to show that it can be achieved using 4 batteries. Voltage is irrelevant in this case as we can assume an average current and know the mAh of the cells. Voltage will remain constant (ideal power supply)
[0:50] <ReggieUK> or they've got a shitty mips chip that no one cares about on them
[0:50] <jamesd257> barr: NO voltage is not irrelevant
[0:50] <BasketOfKittens> did you see the new Arduino ARM platform? extremely expensive for what it is. that's what got me onto pi in the first place
[0:50] <victhor> A10 is real... rhombus tech isnt :P
[0:50] <GabrialDestruir> http://jamesrbass.com/batterylife.htm
[0:50] <GabrialDestruir> and again
[0:50] <des2> As 2 watts for the PI each battery has enough energy for 2 hours of powering the PI
[0:50] <jamesd257> you calculate the energy each battery can supply
[0:50] <GabrialDestruir> 3.5 hours
[0:50] <ReggieUK> jamesd256, I concur
[0:50] <des2> So 4 batteries could power the PI for 8 hours
[0:51] <raaaaspi> It would have been better if they'd gone with a more open SoC though, like the one from TI that's in the galaxy nexus
[0:51] <des2> (assuming average power of the PI of 2 watts)
[0:51] <zgreg> the rhombus-tech thing is funny
[0:51] <jamesd257> des2: no, 2 watts is completely unrealistic for average power
[0:51] <ReggieUK> my digital calipers take a 1.5v battery, at 1.278v those assmunch things stop reading correctly
[0:51] <zleap> nite all
[0:51] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c54d9.dynamic.uiowa.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:51] <zgreg> people are touting it as the "better alternative"
[0:51] <ReggieUK> night zleap
[0:51] <zgreg> even though it does not exist at all
[0:51] <des2> So james have you measured the average power ?
[0:51] <GabrialDestruir> 4 * 2500 = 10,000 mAh right?
[0:51] * zleap (~psutton@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[0:51] <des2> And will your PI just be doing nothing
[0:52] <jamesd257> Gabrial: at 1.2 volts, yes
[0:52] <GabrialDestruir> at 500mA consumption rate, 14 hours
[0:52] <jamesd257> I GIVE UP
[0:52] <ReggieUK> if you're only using 1.2v at a time GabrialDestruir-
[0:52] <des2> Look each battery has 3.9Whours of energy
[0:52] <barr5790> No you dont add mAh of batteries when in series :( in going to try and find a link you might believe more than me
[0:52] <des2> Divide that by your PI power assumptions
[0:52] * koda (~vittorio@host106-71-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: I used to be chatting like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee)
[0:52] <jamesd257> I HAVE A PHYSICS DEGREE AND I AM AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER AND YOU ARE ALL WRONG
[0:52] <jamesd257> sorry
[0:52] <BasketOfKittens> yeah that rhombus tech thing will never come to market
[0:53] <jamesd257> i tried to explain
[0:53] <BasketOfKittens> I HAVE A DEGREE IN ARGUING AND YOU ARE ALL WRONG
[0:53] <des2> I just gave the calculations
[0:53] <jamesd257> I TRIED
[0:53] <des2> Whereas you have not
[0:53] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:53] <ReggieUK> stop shouting james, you'll give yourself an ulcer
[0:53] <jamesd257> I'm going, bye
[0:53] * jamesd257 (51aefaee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.250.238) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[0:53] <ReggieUK> wow
[0:53] <des2> See this is why Wikipedia needs editors
[0:53] <Gadget-Mac> jamesd257: So what. If you've got a degree then you know showing working is important
[0:53] <ReggieUK> I actually agreed with what he was saying
[0:53] <GabrialDestruir> I figured as much, barr5790, now considering 4 * 1.2 which is 4.8V then the overall mAh for all the batteries is still 2500....
[0:53] <GabrialDestruir> right?
[0:53] <raaaaspi> rage quit much
[0:54] <zgreg> that's not the foundation's james, is it?
[0:54] <ReggieUK> GabrialDestruir, yes
[0:54] <xlq> GabrialDestruir: I think so
[0:54] <ReggieUK> zgreg, no idea
[0:54] <GabrialDestruir> Which would put it at 3.5 hours
[0:54] <GabrialDestruir> -.-
[0:54] <Gadget-Mac> GabrialDestruir: yes
[0:54] <ReggieUK> but if he'd toughed it out for another 20seconds he would've seen the fruit of his labours
[0:54] <des2> Actually Reggie he was wrong.
[0:54] <zgreg> what did james actually claim?
[0:54] <xlq> Appeal to authority > /dev/null
[0:54] <zgreg> this is funny
[0:55] <BasketOfKittens> this is tedious
[0:55] <barr5790> GabrialDestruir: yup
[0:55] <des2> Each single battery has 2500ma*1.25v+1hour of energy
[0:55] <barr5790> http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/serial_and_parallel_battery_configurations
[0:55] <des2> Each single battery has 2500ma*1.25v*1hour of energy
[0:55] <xlq> You can do it by energy or by capacity. Doesn't matter, you'll get the same answer.
[0:55] <des2> That's 3906 maH or energy
[0:55] <des2> That's 3906 mwH or energy
[0:55] <des2> rather
[0:56] <des2> or 3.9 watt-hour of energy
[0:56] <GabrialDestruir> You either got 14 hours at 1.2V or 3.5 hours at 4.8V
[0:56] <GabrialDestruir> it's not that hard .-.
[0:56] <des2> So how much energy will the PI be using
[0:56] <des2> Well let's take worst case of 700ma
[0:56] <zgreg> we don't know
[0:56] <des2> 700ma@5v for 1hour = 700ma*5V*1hour
[0:56] <GabrialDestruir> 700mA is Model B if you're using USB
[0:56] <zgreg> in typical use-cases it'll be much less than peak
[0:56] <victhor> round it to 1A. If anything, you'll be left with more battery life than you expected.
[0:57] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:57] <des2> = 3500milliWatt-hour
[0:57] <BasketOfKittens> can we talk about something else
[0:57] <des2> or 3.5Watthour
[0:57] <zgreg> des2: stop babbling
[0:57] <BasketOfKittens> i actually have a question that doesn't involve milliamps
[0:57] <mkopack> Holy crap my class tonight is boring
[0:57] <ReggieUK> it's a moot point, I've stopped giving a crap about power about 3-4 weeks ago
[0:57] <des2> So worst case for each battery you get about 1 hour worst case
[0:57] * koaschten_ (~koaschten@p5B3A65B2.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:57] <ReggieUK> 7Ah 12v battery will simply kick arse :D
[0:58] <BasketOfKittens> the RCA video out - is that just a scaled-down clone of the HDMI signal? or will that be controlled through the OS as a seperate output
[0:58] <xlq> ReggieUK: Are you going to use a Buck converter?
[0:58] <ReggieUK> 2400Ah 12v batter will also kick arse
[0:58] <mkopack> Basket: You're wondering if you can use it to drive a 2nd monitor, aren't you?
[0:58] <GabrialDestruir> 7Ah 12v Battery is a bit wasteful don't you think?
[0:58] <ReggieUK> xlq, no idea what I'm going to do yet
[0:58] <BasketOfKittens> nooo
[0:58] <BasketOfKittens> my tele is only composite
[0:58] <BasketOfKittens> :/
[0:58] <xlq> Where will you find a 4.4 MAh battery? O_o
[0:58] <Gadget-Mac> 12v is suspect will fry the voltage reg ;)
[0:58] <BasketOfKittens> and all my monitors are VGA
[0:58] <zgreg> BasketOfKittens: composite is useless anyway
[0:59] * swiley (~swiley@c-98-249-29-242.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] <des2> xpq Lithium
[0:59] <victhor> lead acid is so cheap, it's not a waste :P
[0:59] <zgreg> BasketOfKittens: the image quality is garbage
[0:59] <BasketOfKittens> not when you have a television from the 80's :)
[0:59] <ReggieUK> but probably get a cheap car to usb charger adapter
[0:59] <no-name-> nz.element14.com has been saying "Further stock available in 38 days" for 3 days now o_o
[0:59] <mkopack> Basket: you're only going to get like a 640x480 display out of the composite
[0:59] <ReggieUK> as they have cheap as hell buck converters in them
[0:59] <BasketOfKittens> i understand that it's bad quality
[0:59] <BasketOfKittens> believe me
[0:59] <mkopack> It's not a scaled HDMI, it's going to be purely analog
[0:59] <BasketOfKittens> my tv is awful;
[0:59] <zgreg> mkopack: don't forget it's interlaced
[0:59] <GabrialDestruir> The current would be to be cut down to a little over than half, so a lot of it's going to waste as heat, isn't it?
[0:59] <des2> Yes Reggie a cheap car-to-usb would be good.
[0:59] <BasketOfKittens> okay but will it have to be configured as a seperate output
[0:59] <ReggieUK> I will have no issues stepping 12v down to 5v just in case anyone thinks that I'm not aware of how to handle power :D
[0:59] <zgreg> so, progressively speaking, it's actually more like 640x240
[0:59] <BasketOfKittens> at the OS level?
[0:59] <GabrialDestruir> er a little under half
[0:59] <BasketOfKittens> i guess i can just wait until it's out
[1:00] <mkopack> yeah, so it's even WORSE than that!
[1:00] <BasketOfKittens> looking to replace my xbox as my SD media center
[1:00] <raaaaspi> It's nice to have the option of both analog and digital though
[1:00] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:00] <BasketOfKittens> not all of us have HDTVs :)
[1:00] * GabrialDestruir- (47a02a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.160.42.116) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[1:00] <zgreg> composite might be OK for watching some video
[1:00] <xlq> GabrialDestruir: Only if you use a linear regulator. There are more efficient ways (see: Buck converter, SMPS, transformers ...)
[1:00] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: Most modern pc monitors have hdmi ports now
[1:00] <ReggieUK> can always try hdmi to dvi too?
[1:00] <zgreg> but anything that involves text will be crappy
[1:00] <BasketOfKittens> yeah, mine are still just VGA
[1:00] <mkopack> yeah, I plan to hook one up to an old TV so I can watch movies while on the treadmill
[1:00] <BasketOfKittens> and when you have two that work great for you it's hard to find a reason to buy a third
[1:00] <ReggieUK> zgreg, not necessarily, it will depend on how much tweaking you can do
[1:01] <GabrialDestruir> Ah, okay.
[1:01] <zgreg> you can't really get a clean 80x25 text terminal over composite
[1:01] <ReggieUK> with text size etc.
[1:01] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: I loved having xbmc on my old xbox. Such a shame the processor doesn't do hd.
[1:01] <zgreg> you either get flickering and/or blurry display
[1:01] * peteyg (~pyg@d142-058-197-192.wireless.sfu.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:01] <des2> Years ago they only had converted TV's with RVC video inputs
[1:01] <BasketOfKittens> xbmc on the old xbox is amazing
[1:01] <des2> RCA
[1:02] <mkopack> HEll, even my mac mini hooked up to my 40" Samsung 1080P HDTV in the bedroom is painful to read text on (granted it's not a purely text display...)
[1:02] <GabrialDestruir> I should go back to looking into power options for my Pi
[1:02] <ReggieUK> I never had that on my matrox card zgreg
[1:02] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: But they don't even support the xbox now! It's ridiculous.
[1:02] <BasketOfKittens> i knoww and the last update they made is buggy as hell on my box :(
[1:02] <BasketOfKittens> so i guess it's time to upgrade
[1:02] <victhor> the original xbox is a celeron with 64 MB of RAM...
[1:02] <GabrialDestruir> I want it setup with some sort of psuedo UPS, so it never goes down even when it's pointless for it to be running >.>
[1:02] <victhor> that's quite old.
[1:02] <BasketOfKittens> IT'S A BEAST
[1:02] <ReggieUK> anyone know what the voltage regulator is on the pi?
[1:02] <zgreg> ReggieUK: then you have very low standards for image quality :)
[1:02] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc35-belf9-2-0-cust731.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:02] <ReggieUK> not at all :)
[1:03] <raaaaspi> victhor: It made for an amazing media center though if you replaced the 8gb hdd
[1:03] <zgreg> composite is very bad by definition
[1:03] <BasketOfKittens> yep, loaded a 60GB in there
[1:03] <ReggieUK> but then again, I'll accept the limitations of composite if I'm going to use it
[1:03] <BasketOfKittens> streamed most over ethernet though
[1:03] <BasketOfKittens> blew my mind
[1:03] <raaaaspi> And the snes etc emulators were great
[1:03] <zgreg> ReggieUK: alright then
[1:03] <ReggieUK> it's not 'bad', just nowhere near as good as hdmi
[1:03] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] <ReggieUK> it served everyone just fine for a good number of years :)
[1:03] <zgreg> it is bad for anything but video
[1:03] <BasketOfKittens> so does anyone think that the digital output will be the same as the analog output? or will we have to develop some sort of OS-level display manager?
[1:04] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> i was wondering that. does the HDMI only do one output resolution then?
[1:04] <victhor> GabrialDestruir, with a lead acid? Not very hard I imagine. Lead acid charger -> battery -> switch mode regulator -> load
[1:04] <xlq> As long as the film's not too scratched, it's fine :)
[1:04] * droolendug (~droolendu@mx1.mvd.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] <ReggieUK> zgreg, it was just fine for reaching elite on a bbc model B 30 years ago :D
[1:04] <victhor> not the best solution but it kinda works, as long as the battery is in place
[1:04] <droolendug> oddie
[1:04] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: Digital and analog inputs aren't compatible, you can't convert one to another without some expensive adaptors
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> i know i know
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> i just mean
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> inside the gpu
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> is the same signal going to both?
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> the hdmi and the compsite?
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> or like
[1:04] <zgreg> ReggieUK: actually I moved everything over to s-video or RGB as soon as possible. I even did that on my c-64! :)
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> how is that configured
[1:04] <BasketOfKittens> eh
[1:05] <BasketOfKittens> i guess no one really knows yet
[1:05] <ReggieUK> waste of effort in the c64 :D
[1:05] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: Hmm, do you mean, like will you be able to use both at once?
[1:05] <des2> Yeah there was a reason lots of people bought RGB monitors
[1:05] <aditsu> can you have 2 monitors in xinerama mode?
[1:05] <BasketOfKittens> no, just wondering if it'll be a pain to get composite running
[1:05] <GabrialDestruir> Eh, I was just thinking I'd go with something like a USB charger with a battery, and run the current through the USB charger and have the USB charger power the Pi
[1:05] <zgreg> ReggieUK: hell no, s-video makes a big difference on the c-64
[1:05] <BasketOfKittens> because i don't have an HDMI monitor
[1:05] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: Stick a solar panel ontop
[1:05] <victhor> GabrialDestruir, don't think this will be a problem.
[1:06] <BasketOfKittens> also - has anyone seen any X Windows acceleration? seems like no so far
[1:06] <victhor> I added the charger because the battery isn't going to regenerate itself.
[1:06] <GabrialDestruir> Solar panel won't work where I want to stick this behind the tv :p
[1:06] <mkopack> zgreg: Same here??? although I always felt the red was way too intense after I did that
[1:06] <zgreg> BasketOfKittens: no
[1:06] <BasketOfKittens> dudes in that fedora video said they couldn't get X acceleration
[1:06] <BasketOfKittens> ...dang. hope we can figure that out
[1:06] <xlq> GabrialDestruir: So you're sticking your pi where the sun don't shine? :(
[1:06] <raaaaspi> BasketOfKittens: composite is 720x576 interlaced if you're pal
[1:06] <ReggieUK> zgreg, didn't turn it from crap to good though on the processor :D
[1:06] <mkopack> Basket: Not yet.. keep in mind, there's only been a few people really working on this stuff since few had access to the alpha boards up until now...
[1:07] <BasketOfKittens> yeah, that's true...
[1:07] <zgreg> ReggieUK: dude, 6502/6510 rules
[1:07] <mkopack> Give it a few weeks after people get their hands on release boards and I bet you'll see some movement on a lot of things
[1:07] <BasketOfKittens> 2 weeks from now those first lucky bastards will be getting going
[1:07] <des2> That's an important point mkopack
[1:07] <BasketOfKittens> yep, quite excited about that
[1:07] <mkopack> zgreg: Yup, all 1 Mhz of it!
[1:07] <raaaaspi> mkopack: the xbmc guys got a couple of beta boards
[1:07] <des2> Only a few people hacking on it
[1:07] <BasketOfKittens> i hear the fedora install is 21 MB of ram.. that's fucking crazy!
[1:07] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.amazon.com/Anker-5600mAh-External-flashlight-Motorola/dp/B005K7192G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1330646765&sr=8-3 Something like this.... which would be powered by a powered USB hub and then power the Pi
[1:07] <zgreg> 6502 was one of the first pipelined CPU designs
[1:07] <GabrialDestruir> the USB hub would also plug into the otherside to give more space
[1:08] <xlq> [00:06] <BasketOfKittens> i hear the fedora install is 21 MB of ram.. that's fucking crazy!
[1:08] <GabrialDestruir> er well more ports
[1:08] <xlq> yeah, that's ridiculously huge
[1:08] <Gadget-Mac> GabrialDestruir: Nice idea
[1:08] <des2> The 6502 was a popular alternative to the 6800
[1:08] <zgreg> only 2 stages, but so what... 6502 is like 4x faster than z80 at the same clock!
[1:08] <mkopack> Basket: WHy? I remember when Slackware 0.1 came out??? most people still had 386's with 1MB RAM.
[1:08] <BasketOfKittens> 21 MB of ram is really efficient for a GUI
[1:08] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: Won't it be designed to trickle charge an internal battery though?
[1:09] <GabrialDestruir> Not sure, would depend on the battery.
[1:09] * drewharris (~drewharri@bas1-ottawa09-2925286966.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:09] <xlq> 21M of RAM for a GUI?
[1:09] <xlq> Windows 3.1 needed 1M
[1:10] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: I'm just saying, it might not be designed to provide an uninterrupted source of power if it's supposed to charge another existing battery
[1:10] <drewharris> i wouldn't really want to be running windows 3.1 these days
[1:10] <xlq> No, but a small-ish GUI can be done.
[1:10] <drewharris> *21 MB of ram for a full system including GUI
[1:10] * heymaster (~heymaster@78.61.212.188) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:10] * Tube_Gardener (~shi@fw.nctc.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:10] <des2> 21MB isn't much
[1:10] <mkopack> I toy with the idea of pulling out my old OS/2 install CD's and trying to get it running inside a VM :)
[1:10] <xlq> How about 2k? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contiki
[1:11] <drewharris> 21 MB is just great
[1:11] <GabrialDestruir> Well I know on the ZaggSparq one I have I can unplug it and it'll keep charging whatever's plugged into it, but that plugs directly into the wall, as opposed to USB powered
[1:11] <mkopack> To think I almost took a job with IBM to work on OS/2
[1:11] <mkopack> Best thing I ever did was turn that job down
[1:11] <xlq> Sorry, 30k
[1:11] * heymaster (~heymaster@78.61.212.188) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:11] <des2> Shame that they got screwed on OS/2
[1:11] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: The usb port on that battery you posted won't work because the micro usb on the raspberry pi is power only
[1:11] <drewharris> OS/2 was so cool
[1:11] <traeak> hmm...wonder what gui
[1:11] <drewharris> OS/2 >> NT
[1:11] <des2> IBM shot themselves in the foot wiht PC hardware and software
[1:11] <traeak> for fedora i mean
[1:11] <GabrialDestruir> o.O
[1:12] <GabrialDestruir> All it needs to do is power....
[1:12] <drewharris> i believe it's LXDE
[1:12] <traeak> if IBM hadn't done what they did with the hardware i'm not sure x86 would be so dominating
[1:12] <GabrialDestruir> the USB hub which would be separate from the battery would plug in on the otherside.
[1:12] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: The usb port ON the battery
[1:12] <des2> Right the microUSB connector on the PI is for power only
[1:12] <BasketOfKittens> wonder how a mintyboost would do
[1:13] <GabrialDestruir> I'm not seeing a problem....
[1:13] <GabrialDestruir> Cord from battery to Pi, powers PI.
[1:13] <traeak> anyone here offhand know how big a compiled executable on arm is compared to x86_64 ?
[1:13] <GabrialDestruir> Cord from HUB to Battery charges battery
[1:14] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:14] <drewharris> big
[1:14] <drewharris> i think
[1:14] <GabrialDestruir> Cord on back of HUB to Pi USB port
[1:14] <drewharris> ^^
[1:14] <GabrialDestruir> Provides additional ports
[1:14] <victhor> what happens if you disconnect the hub power? It just keeps going? :P
[1:14] <drewharris> i compiled a couple of libraries for ARM and they were??? bigger
[1:14] <drewharris> but not that much bigger
[1:14] <traeak> hmm
[1:14] <GabrialDestruir> That's the issue I haven't quite figured out yet....
[1:15] <traeak> maybe worth checking clang as well then
[1:15] <GabrialDestruir> sure the pi will keep going but then the power for the hub will come from the pi and kill the backup battery faster
[1:15] * rely_train is now known as rely_car
[1:15] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: From what I can see the battery hub thing only has one connector thats designed to connect to the host device, and if it's providing power through the micro usb port then it can't do data
[1:15] <GabrialDestruir> The battery is SEPARATE from the hub .-.
[1:16] <victhor> you didn't get it. It sounded like a infinite loop.
[1:16] <des2> traek on a non graphics program I have that about 3MB on x86 it was about 5% bigger executablr on the Pogoplug
[1:16] <mkopack> traeak: that's all going to depend??? different instruction set, so different # calls to make stuff happen. But it's 32 bit instead of 64 bit??? different # registers as well??? so it's kind of hard to judge without doing a compile side by side
[1:17] <traeak> des2 hmm....armv5 and you just reminded me
[1:17] * swiley (~swiley@c-98-249-29-242.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzzz)
[1:17] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-185-232.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:17] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817422001 Something like this would be the Hub. One Port would get dedicated to powering a USB Battery, which would then Power the Pi.
[1:17] <GabrialDestruir> With me so far?
[1:17] <drewharris> does compiled size matter that much?
[1:17] <traeak> mkopack: someone got my hopes up that i mightbe able to join the qt developer program with the rpi...even though i'm late
[1:17] <mkopack> No go?
[1:17] * philh (~phil@cpc1-oxfd13-0-0-cust605.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:18] <traeak> mkopack: haven't heard back yet
[1:18] <zgreg> ARM actually has multiple instruction sets
[1:18] <zgreg> regular ARM and Thumb
[1:18] <droolendug> oddie
[1:18] <zgreg> and a new version of Thumb, Thumb-2
[1:18] <GabrialDestruir> Then the USB cord for the HUB data would plug into the USB port on the PI, allowing data to transfer from the PI to the hub and Vice Versa.
[1:18] <drewharris> thumb 2 isn't for arm5 though
[1:18] <drewharris> right
[1:18] <zgreg> drewharris: that's right
[1:19] <drewharris> hrm
[1:19] <mkopack> Thumb 1 though?
[1:19] <zgreg> yes
[1:19] <mkopack> cool
[1:19] <GabrialDestruir> The Hub won't have an issue becaue the MicroUSB port on the PI doesn't do Data, it's only providing power.
[1:20] <des2> That should work Gabrial
[1:20] <raaaaspi> what would you have to do to hook a raspberry pi up to a car battery
[1:21] <GabrialDestruir> The hub idea came from the forums somewhere, the battery part is my own attempt to add in reliability.
[1:21] <des2> Get something to convert 13v to 5 volts
[1:21] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.amazon.com/Roadpro-Battery-Cigarette-Lighter-Adapter/dp/B00065L2D8
[1:21] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.amazon.com/2-Port-USB-Car-Charger-Adapter/dp/B00166G81M/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1330647646&sr=1-1
[1:21] <GabrialDestruir> Basically? >.>
[1:21] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:21] * mpthompson (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.131.39.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:21] <des2> Either a simple linear regular or a DC-DC converter
[1:21] <raaaaspi> it's still 12 volts though
[1:22] <raaaaspi> how efficient would that converter be?
[1:22] <des2> Maybe 90%
[1:22] <des2> Depends on the model
[1:22] <GabrialDestruir> I'd assume the setup I pointed out wouldn't be any less efficienct than if there was an engine between the two
[1:23] <GabrialDestruir> You'd just have to find the right sort of car charger
[1:23] <drewharris> i see a lot of people talking about DSI/LVDS displays and such. in my mind that's like, next to impossible at this point
[1:23] <drewharris> even if we have breakout pins which i don't think we do
[1:24] <drewharris> still...
[1:24] <drewharris> a screen would be amazing
[1:24] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose using a car battery would be a doable idea... but it's not really all that portable...
[1:24] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[1:25] <raaaaspi> Why isn't dsi possible?
[1:25] <des2> A small 12v 7AH sealed Lead Acid
[1:25] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[1:25] <drewharris> i don't think DSI is possible without support in the binary blog
[1:25] <drewharris> for the GPU
[1:25] <drewharris> which i didn't think was enabled at this point
[1:25] <drewharris> someone can correct me though
[1:26] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose you could just go this route... http://www.amazon.com/APC-BE350G-UPS-System/dp/B001985SWW/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1330647909&sr=1-16
[1:26] <GabrialDestruir> Then a normal wall wart
[1:27] <mkopack> drew: That's correct
[1:27] <drewharris> :(
[1:27] <mkopack> They said that sort of thing would be coming later??? requires support in the blob. Same with the Camera
[1:27] <raaaaspi> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nFMe9IEwZxIJ:www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/definite-raspi-dsi-screen-list
[1:27] * Karmaon (~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[1:28] <raaaaspi> http://elinux.org/Rpi_Screens#interfacing_to_Raw_LCD_panels
[1:28] <mkopack> raaaaspi: Yeha, and there's nothing definitive??? hard to have that when NOBODY has the boards to try anything out yet
[1:28] * IT_Sean (~IT@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:29] <drewharris> would be nice to toss an iphone 4 screen on there
[1:29] * Karmaon (~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:30] * Algo (~Algo@unaffiliated/algorithmiccontr) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:30] <des2> People have hooked up lots of spare Nokia LCD panels to Arduinos
[1:30] <GabrialDestruir> I could always just invest in another UPS, that should get me up to 6 hours if the power ever went out .-.
[1:30] <Algo> What's more fun than a speadsheet, and tastier than chocolate dipped bacon?
[1:30] <IT_Sean> RASPI!
[1:31] <des2> Wait for one of those 350VA ones to go onsale Gabrial
[1:31] <GabrialDestruir> Probably more.... considering that the Pi's not suppose to have all the blinking lights and stuff...
[1:31] <mkopack> Algo: NOTHING!
[1:32] <mkopack> NOTHING is better than chocolate dipped bacon!
[1:32] <drewharris> AND CATS
[1:32] <des2> You dip your cats in chocolate ?
[1:32] * swiley (~swiley@c-98-249-29-242.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] <drewharris> haha well
[1:33] <drewharris> no
[1:33] <raaaaspi> don't feed your cats chocolate
[1:33] * Christian5 (~christian@89.187.143.47) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] <drewharris> i hear that's bad
[1:33] * Christian6 (~christian@p57A3C8EA.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:34] * Christian4 (~christian@p57A3C8EA.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:34] * Tube_Gardener (~shi@fw.nctc.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:35] <raaaaspi> cats and dogs find the theobromine in chocolate toxic
[1:35] <drewharris> TIL
[1:36] <raaaaspi> It can kill them
[1:37] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-084-058-178-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:37] <raaaaspi> Humans can't eat dog chocolate either because it tastes DISGUSTING
[1:37] <des2> But snausages are delicious
[1:37] <JairunCaloth> w00t! I just got an e-mail from newark that says I can order now
[1:37] <SpeedEvil> I would disagree.
[1:37] <IT_Sean> Whatbthe arse is dog chocolate?
[1:37] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-computer-UPS-last-for-hours-instead-of-m/
[1:37] <GabrialDestruir> Could go with something like that.
[1:37] <SpeedEvil> Cats don't find theobromine anything.
[1:37] <mkopack> Sean: a type that dogs can eat???
[1:37] <GabrialDestruir> But that's a bit overkill isn't it?
[1:37] <SpeedEvil> That would require them to understand.
[1:38] <des2> Did they give you a special URL Jaurun ?
[1:38] * Christian5 (~christian@89.187.143.47) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[1:38] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:38] <IT_Sean> Oooh
[1:38] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:38] <raaaaspi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine_poisoning
[1:39] <drewharris> really? so newark is letting people order again?
[1:39] <drewharris> good news i guess
[1:39] <raaaaspi> Holy shit cats are unable to taste sweetness. Poor cats
[1:39] <des2> Gabrial if you are gonna do something like that for a PI just get one of these devices: http://www.mini-box.com/micro-UPS-load-sharing
[1:39] <mkopack> lol???.if you went to the right page you could all along :)
[1:39] <IT_Sean> drewharris: the people tht registered interest
[1:40] <JairunCaloth> not sure but their website appears to be melting suddenly
[1:40] <drewharris> ahh i see, that's cool. i have one coming from newark and one from farnell already
[1:40] <drewharris> late though
[1:40] <des2> http://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-pcba/dp/83T1943?Ntt=2081185
[1:40] <drewharris> aril and may
[1:40] <mkopack> drew: Yeah, I'm in May
[1:40] * ingrowntesticle (~Bill@97-88-55-94.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:40] <drewharris> that Element 14 community site looks really nice actually
[1:40] <kyzz> Has anyone ever heard of a grocery store that uses a conveyor belt to assist in loading customers cars?
[1:40] <drewharris> i wish they had that set up at 6 AM on launch day
[1:40] <GabrialDestruir> Eh.... that looks like I'd need skills to do it .-.
[1:41] <JairunCaloth> ah fuck, server error while submitting billing info
[1:41] <drewharris> mkopack: may 10?
[1:41] <mkopack> yup
[1:41] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose that'd be the case regardless
[1:41] <drewharris> yeah i think that's a common NA delivery date
[1:41] <raaaaspi> kyzz: That's what young children are for.
[1:41] <GabrialDestruir> April 16th!
[1:41] <kyzz> raaaaspi: haha I suppose I was just curious
[1:41] <GabrialDestruir> Beat that!
[1:41] <GabrialDestruir> people from UK don't get a say -.-
[1:41] <kyzz> I think my delivery date is around thre as well...
[1:41] <des2> Young children are for conveyor belts ?
[1:42] <kyzz> des2 : I think he meant for carrying your groceries but yeah
[1:42] <drewharris> i heard some people are getting Pi boards next week :/
[1:42] <IT_Sean> O_o
[1:42] <raaaaspi> kyzz: Well the americans have drive-through ATMS, they might invent drive-through grocery stores one day
[1:42] <IT_Sean> Speaking of which, i forobt to hit the cashpoint on my way home from work :/
[1:42] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:43] <IT_Sean> *forgot
[1:43] <des2> I recall there have been drive through grocery stores. In California I think
[1:43] <kyzz> raaaaspi: I work at a grocery store that does that...we bag your groceries and we have a free service that uses a converyor belt where the customer pulls up and we load their car for them.
[1:43] <GabrialDestruir> WTf
[1:43] <kyzz> I was just curious if the idea has been used elsewhere
[1:43] <GabrialDestruir> I've NEVER seen a drive through grocery store
[1:43] <DaQatz> <raaaaspi> kyzz: Well the americans have drive-through ATMS, they might invent drive-through grocery stores one day <-- They exist
[1:43] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[1:43] * UnaClocker (~unaclocke@24-113-85-150.wavecable.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:43] <kyzz> ALSO never again in my life will I work at a place without a union...
[1:43] <IT_Sean> Urft
[1:44] <IT_Sean> Down w/ unions!
[1:44] <kyzz> It seemed "unique" so I'm creating an AMA with some pictures lol
[1:44] <raaaaspi> wow. We're missing out.. The only drive though stuff we have are mcdonalds.
[1:44] <drewharris> america will find a way to minimize the amount of movement one has to make in a day
[1:44] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101080
[1:44] <GabrialDestruir> Probably a bit overkill for Pi?
[1:44] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[1:44] <drewharris> okay $10k is a bit overkill
[1:44] <kyzz> IT_Sean : Meh I've been screwed over and I'm not a fan of playing favorites
[1:44] <GabrialDestruir> lmao
[1:44] <IT_Sean> Just a bit
[1:44] * fossrox (~fossrox@unaffiliated/fossrox) Quit (Quit: Free Software, Free Hardware, Free Culture, Free Spectrum http://rbose.org)
[1:44] <kyzz> drewharris: It's even more irritating when the people who use the service don't appreciate it
[1:44] <Vazde> and the dc->ac inverter is not needed
[1:45] <drewharris> heheh
[1:45] <raaaaspi> usb is dc isn't it?
[1:45] <drewharris> yep
[1:45] <IT_Sean> Aye
[1:45] <SpeedEvil> kyzz: you're in the US?
[1:45] <kyzz> Yeah, Ohio specifically
[1:45] <IT_Sean> Oh hi oh
[1:45] <des2> Do you tip a conveyor belt ?
[1:46] <IT_Sean> Tipping... Not just for cows.
[1:46] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host77-122-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
[1:46] <SpeedEvil> kyzz: In the UK, most people can get deliveries of groceries. For example, I'm in a little village of ~300 people, 6 miles from a town of ~40k.
[1:46] <SpeedEvil> kyzz: I can get 3 supermarkets to deliver for the equivalent of $5
[1:47] <kyzz> des2: we are not "supposed" to take tips but they are VERY rare less than 15$/year
[1:47] <raaaaspi> SpeedEvil: Yeah but how can you be sure they person they picked out the perfect grapes to be delivered to you
[1:47] <mkopack> I miss Webvan??? having groceries delivered....
[1:47] <SpeedEvil> raaaaspi: I mostly buy stuff that is hard to dent, as I'm ordering every 3-4 weeks.
[1:47] <GabrialDestruir> Wth is with these highly inefficient UPS
[1:47] <kyzz> SpeedEvil: We have something like that , but you can select your items online then a employee shops the order for you. You then set a time and date to pick it up then they load the stuff into your car.
[1:48] <GabrialDestruir> 10 hours to charge a battery that'll supposedly only run 8 minutes?
[1:48] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[1:48] <SpeedEvil> raaaaspi: Fruit is oranges, and apples and pineapples, and bananas, as they are cheap. Then cabbages, carrots and onions, and UHT milk.
[1:48] <des2> The reason it's only 8 minutes is by then your generator has started and is stable
[1:48] <IT_Sean> Funny story there...
[1:48] <victhor> you can't charge a lead acid battery very quickly
[1:49] <SpeedEvil> kyzz: yeah - I have no legally operable car. Hence this is a lifesaver.
[1:49] <victhor> you can discharge it at a faster rate than charging I think.
[1:49] <IT_Sean> Person i used to work with consistant
[1:49] <SpeedEvil> victhor: correction. You shouldn't charge a lead acid battery very quickly.
[1:49] <victhor> otherwise you might get excessive gas buildup.
[1:49] <kyzz> That's good! our services are useful for elderly people or "disabled" people AKA obese/lazy people
[1:50] <SpeedEvil> I'm not obese, and get tired easily enough for medical reasons that I've failed the driving test 4 times. Concentration wanders :/
[1:50] <IT_Sean> Forgot to check the fuel levels of the bitfarm generator after the monthly tests... .... .. The one time the power went out, the gennie ran for about two minutes, than stalled due to a lack pf fuel.
[1:50] <GabrialDestruir> Wait....
[1:50] * peteyg (~pyg@d142-058-197-192.wireless.sfu.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:50] * drewharris (~drewharri@bas1-ottawa09-2925286966.dsl.bell.ca) has left #raspberrypi
[1:50] * BasketOfKittens (ae5c5636@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.92.86.54) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[1:50] <SpeedEvil> IT_Sean: Oops.
[1:50] <GabrialDestruir> If the Pi is suppose to use 96Watts in a day.... give or take.... then a 300 Watt UPS should keep it alive 3 days right? >.>
[1:50] <IT_Sean> SpeedEvil: yeah. He got fired fairly soon after.
[1:51] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: you're majorly confused.
[1:51] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: On several levels.
[1:51] <GabrialDestruir> Most likely ^_^
[1:51] <hotwings> We have special pricing with UPS that we can ship 2nd day at ground rates
[1:51] <hotwings>
[1:51] <hotwings> Thank you,
[1:51] <hotwings> Tedi
[1:51] <hotwings> Account Coordinator
[1:51] <hotwings> NEWARK
[1:51] <hotwings> Cleveland, OH
[1:51] <IT_Sean> The generators were supposed to run the entire datacenter for a month. They ran about 12 minutes.
[1:51] <hotwings> 800-463-9275
[1:51] <hotwings> nice
[1:51] <des2> Gabriel first think Energy
[1:51] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: Firstly, batteries are measured in watt-hours.
[1:51] <hotwings> so its true that i get 2nd day air shipping at the cheap ground shipping rate :D
[1:51] <kyzz> I'm near Cleveland lol
[1:51] <des2> So how much power are you assuming your PI uses
[1:51] <des2> The full 3.5 watts ?
[1:51] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: this means you need about 2.5W*24h to run the Pi - this is ~55Wh or so.
[1:52] <raaaaspi> plus his usb hub
[1:52] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: 55Wh requires (at 12V) a 5Ah or so battery.
[1:52] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: This is the size of battery in your smallest UPS.
[1:52] <des2> In practice you would try to keep your lead acid battery from dropping below 50% capacity
[1:53] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: However. The problem is that a UPS will use perhaps 10-20W 'standby'
[1:53] <hotwings> is 2.5W the IDLE consumption, or is that during full load?
[1:53] * crackm (~chatzilla@brln-4db84e80.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:53] <SpeedEvil> Standby = with close to zero load
[1:53] <SpeedEvil> hotwings: pretty much full load
[1:53] <Vazde> but also take into account all the losses in PSUs and other converters
[1:53] <des2> Gabrial the UPS manufacturer will usally have a chart of time vs power drain
[1:54] <des2> Cause it isn't linear
[1:54] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: So a '300W' UPS with a 50Wh or so battery may last 2-5 hours when outputting almost no load.
[1:54] <GabrialDestruir> Someone yesterday had calculated it at like 96 a day .-.
[1:54] <raaaaspi> I wish we had drive through banks. Banking sucks.
[1:54] <GabrialDestruir> Ah.
[1:54] <GabrialDestruir> Okay
[1:54] <IT_Sean> Drive thru banking FTW
[1:54] <des2> Not uless it's 300W for one hour
[1:54] <des2> It's usally the rated power for like 10 minutes
[1:54] <des2> Put look for the power chart
[1:54] <SpeedEvil> des2: If that.
[1:55] <mkopack> Hell in New Orleans they have drive through Daquiri places! FTW!
[1:55] <SpeedEvil> And in practice, you may be lucky to get the rated power at the end of the first year.
[1:55] <des2> Cause the less current you draw the more energy out you can get
[1:55] <SpeedEvil> Especially if you're in a warm climate.
[1:55] <GabrialDestruir> Yes.. but they're usually rated for PCs too, not a Pi or other low powered device.
[1:55] <SpeedEvil> des2: Up to perhaps 30% load - then the amount of energy you get out as you decrease the load further drops.
[1:56] * IT_Sean (~IT@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[1:56] <GabrialDestruir> Like the two UPS I have are rated for like 15 minutes.... but I got nearly 6 hours powering a clock, a router and a modem.
[1:56] <des2> Yes the DC to AC converter isn't as efficient at low current levels
[1:56] <SpeedEvil> It varies with UPS - some will be more efficient than others.
[1:57] <SpeedEvil> It's generally a silly way to power small loads though.
[1:57] <des2> Yes
[1:57] * SpeedEvil looks at his teeny $40 UPS balanced on top of a 100Ah 12V battery.
[1:57] <des2> heh
[1:57] * ReggieUK glares at SpeedEvil
[1:57] <ReggieUK> my want
[1:57] <oldtopman> Anyone here have access to the rpi wiki?
[1:57] <oldtopman> I fixed a picture, but I can't seem to be able to register.
[1:58] <des2> Google cache ?
[1:58] <oldtopman> Ah, as in editing priveleges.
[1:58] <raaaaspi> the elinux wiki?
[1:58] <SpeedEvil> If power goes out, I go meh - turn the display off, use the laptops internal display, and plug my router direct to the battery to lose the quite lossy PSU.
[1:58] <oldtopman> raaaaspi: That's it.
[1:58] <SpeedEvil> Good for ~24h
[1:59] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@123.98.132.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:59] <des2> My silly router has a 12V AC supply
[1:59] <Vazde> o.o
[1:59] * roteiro (~qicruser@dslb-084-058-178-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:00] <hotwings> [16:57:48] <SpeedEvil> If power goes out, I go meh - turn the display off, <-- if the power goes out, your display is turned off for you!
[2:00] <oldtopman> So, can anyone help me fix the picture on the elinux wiki?
[2:00] <SpeedEvil> hotwings: No, it's not.
[2:00] <SpeedEvil> hotwings: If I do nothing, I only get ~12h battery life.
[2:00] <raaaaspi> oldtopman: You could try emailing them
[2:00] <oldtopman> Ah.
[2:00] <des2> THey indicated they might bring back the site in a little while
[2:00] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/soho-ups/cp425g.html I this to power my modem/routers/ooma, I haven't invested in a UPS for my PC .-.
[2:01] <traeak> ugh i have another dying ups
[2:01] <SpeedEvil> des2: 99.99% of devices that run on AC are just fine on DC.
[2:01] <JairunCaloth> -.- Expected Ship Date: 05/11/2012
[2:01] <traeak> btw, where to recycle old ups batteries ?
[2:01] <raaaaspi> oldtopman: Does this help? http://lists.osuosl.org/mailman/listinfo/elinux-discuss
[2:01] <ReggieUK> I've got access to the wiki
[2:01] <ReggieUK> who was asking
[2:02] <SpeedEvil> traeak: where are you?
[2:02] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:02] <raaaaspi> ReggieUK: oldtopman
[2:02] <hotwings> if the power goes out, i do something that doesnt require power. im not the lawnmower man.. i can be disconnected from a computer and the internet and still survive
[2:02] <SpeedEvil> hotwings: ... Scary shit man.
[2:02] <ReggieUK> someone should remove the link to the official website for purchasing the pi too
[2:02] <SpeedEvil> hotwings: I have two backup internet connections.
[2:03] <GabrialDestruir> Eh, I have my nook.... if the power goes out I can always read.
[2:03] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[2:03] <traeak> SpeedEvil: us, CO...i should just start asking at like walmart, etc
[2:03] <des2> Perhaps hotwings but how will you inform the twitter community as to your every action ?
[2:03] <SpeedEvil> traeak: In general, your local car-wrecking yard.
[2:03] <hotwings> thats the key.. i dont give a damn about twitter or facebook or etc
[2:03] <traeak> SpeedEvil: interesting, as long as i don't have to pay for it !
[2:03] <SpeedEvil> hotwings: I use the internet to decompress from real life.
[2:03] <SpeedEvil> traeak: Lead has a value!
[2:04] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: This image is incorrect: http://elinux.org/File:Raspi-Model-AB-Mono-1-699x1024.png
[2:04] <GabrialDestruir> The only problem is.... it seems my neighbors are following my idea of using UPS to power the interwebz.... because a lot less wifi connections disappear these days
[2:04] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[2:04] <SpeedEvil> traeak: Lead acid batteries actually have positive value.
[2:04] <raaaaspi> ReggieUK: they should set a redirect for raspberrypi.com to .org
[2:04] <hotwings> if youre connected to the net that much, the internet _is_ your real life
[2:04] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: When poweer went out to the village, I got a 5M/s connection, not 3.5
[2:04] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: The model A has 256MB RAM. I've fixed it here: http://uploadpie.com/BzNOn
[2:04] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: The dilemma I face.
[2:04] <traeak> SpeedEvil: thx...
[2:04] <SpeedEvil> GabrialDestruir: I know where the village switch is.
[2:04] * dude_1 (~zabomber@203-219-247-88.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] <hotwings> i thought the model A was upgraded to 512MB ram now
[2:05] * klm[_] (milkman@108.228.199.160) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] * klm[_] (milkman@108.228.199.160) Quit (Changing host)
[2:05] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] <SpeedEvil> hotwings: It is.
[2:05] <raaaaspi> oldtopman: why not cut out the A & B it and just put 256mb ram
[2:05] <SpeedEvil> Oooh!
[2:05] <raaaaspi> *bit
[2:05] * SpeedEvil ponders the RAM footprint.
[2:05] <SpeedEvil> If compatible, I could have use for a 512M RAM.
[2:05] <oldtopman> raaaaspi: hrm
[2:05] * uen (~uen@p5DCB258E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:05] <des2> You menn A is 256MB
[2:05] <des2> Not 512
[2:06] <des2> Previously the A was 128
[2:06] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[2:06] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@247-70.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[2:06] <des2> But now A&B are same memory
[2:06] <UnaClocker> 512 would do wonders for the Pi.
[2:06] <UnaClocker> The Sheeva had 512 2 years ago..
[2:06] <ReggieUK> someone check the main wiki page and tell me whether the getting started section still reads ok?
[2:06] <ReggieUK> http://elinux.org/R-Pi_Hub#Getting_Started
[2:06] <SpeedEvil> Old memory gets more, not less expensive, when you're more than a generation or so back.
[2:06] <raaaaspi> Personally I think it was ridiculious to give an option for 128mb of ram in the first place.. It will just lead to complications down the line.
[2:07] <hotwings> i thought it was 256/512.. not 128/256.. :\
[2:07] <ReggieUK> refresh and recheck please, I think that looks better?
[2:08] <raaaaspi> ReggieUK: "you must do it via raspberry pi partners also beware unlicensed resellers" doesn't read so well, maybe split it up.
[2:08] <SpeedEvil> ReggieUK: I'd say 'You can only purchase a raspberry pi through the distribution partners. The foundations webshop sells stickers!
[2:08] <SpeedEvil> Or similar
[2:08] <des2> No it was 128/256 now it's 256/256.
[2:09] <hotwings> i wonder how much of that is usable by apps
[2:09] <raaaaspi> SpeedEvil: The foundations webshop is down. And we don't know whether they'll bring it back up. Plus they sold out of the stickers before they launched
[2:09] <UnaClocker> SpeedEvil: They CLAIMED they were selling stickers as a practice run for the Pi itself.
[2:09] * Christian6 (~christian@p57A3C8EA.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[2:09] <ReggieUK> yeah, I wasn't sure whether to leave the official shop link in there or not
[2:10] <SpeedEvil> ah.
[2:10] <raaaaspi> hotwings: Not a whole lot, that's why you have to have a swap, which is a bit shit since that will dramatically cut down the life of the sd card
[2:10] * rely_car is now known as rely
[2:11] <hotwings> yeah
[2:11] * dude_1 (~zabomber@203-219-247-88.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:11] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: Here's a version with just the one 256MB RAM thing http://uploadpie.com/3enq6
[2:11] <GabrialDestruir> Couldn't you use a USB stick dedicated for swap?
[2:12] <hotwings> oldtopman - i wouldnt put it directly above broadcom like that.. at least double-space it
[2:12] <raaaaspi> wasn't someone saying earlier that a dsi display might not be possible? why is it marked on the diagram then?
[2:12] * brougham (brougham@wintermute.brougham.info) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:12] <ReggieUK> I hate the elinux wiki editor
[2:12] <shirro> Since my Pi is likely still a long wait away does anyone have pointers to having a play with GLES2, OpenVG and OpenMax on a desktop system. Mesa looks to do GLES but I am not sure about the rest.
[2:12] <oldtopman> raaaaspi: Digitial Serial Interface.
[2:12] * KrimZon_2_ (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:13] <GabrialDestruir> IT looks like the place it's pointing at is the SD Card reader though
[2:13] <GabrialDestruir> so that might not be so usable
[2:13] <oldtopman> hotwings: Do I look like a graphical artist? No? Are you my client? No? This is ReggieUK's call, seeing as he's the only one here with wiki access.
[2:14] <raaaaspi> oldtopman: he was only making a suggestion.
[2:15] <oldtopman> :|
[2:15] <hotwings> oldtopman - calm down... its not like i just slapped your mother.. jesus
[2:15] <hotwings> if you dont want feedback, dont post urls in here..
[2:15] * raaaaspi slaps oldtopman's mother
[2:16] <hotwings> what a stupid thing to react like that over
[2:16] * oldtopman asks raaaaspi if he'll ever be able to sleep soundly again
[2:16] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[2:16] <raaaaspi> Btw, is this photo.. the latest board? http://elinux.org/File:RpiFront.jpg
[2:17] <des2> no
[2:17] <des2> That's the beta board
[2:17] <des2> Cause it has a header
[2:17] <oldtopman> wait
[2:17] <oldtopman> Real boards have no headers?
[2:17] <GabrialDestruir> You can't currently purchase a Raspberry Pi from the official website, Raspberry Pi can only be purchased via a distribution partner. Beware unlicensed resellers like those on ebay - see the Buying Guide for more details.
[2:17] <Tachyon`> and the fix, lol
[2:17] <GabrialDestruir> Is how I'd phrase it.
[2:18] <GabrialDestruir> Flows better, and is less confusing.
[2:18] <Byan> cold in here hrm
[2:18] <hotwings> youre not supposed to repeat nouns in the same sentence
[2:18] <Tachyon`> no raspberry pis on ebay surprisingly
[2:18] <hotwings> re: Respberry Pi
[2:18] <des2> "A birds eye view from the Rpi b?ta board(model B) "
[2:18] <GabrialDestruir> You can't currently purchase a Raspberry Pi from the official website, it can only be purchased via a distribution partner. Beware unlicensed resellers like those on ebay - see the Buying Guide for more details.
[2:18] <GabrialDestruir> better?
[2:19] * r4pha (~rapha@unaffiliated/r4pha) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[2:19] <rely> GabrialDestruir: So gab
[2:19] <raaaaspi> Why did they stick the notification LEDs right next to the bulkiest components? Wouldn't it have been better if they could have sit closer to the edge of a case?
[2:19] <Byan> oldtopman: no CSI or DSI connectors and no GPIO header pins.
[2:19] * uen (~uen@p5DCB2817.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:19] <oldtopman> D:
[2:19] <GabrialDestruir> Si?
[2:19] <oldtopman> Where can I get an actual picture of the rpi?
[2:20] <shirro> Any news on when the .org forums will be back? I am missing the database errors.
[2:20] <ReggieUK> done
[2:20] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: Also, all links to the forums are dead.
[2:20] <Byan> oldtopman: no where, probably
[2:20] <GabrialDestruir> There is no case, so it's not an issue?
[2:20] <ReggieUK> about your image oldtopman
[2:20] <Byan> it's the same PCB as the one in the picture, minus a minor fix
[2:20] <hotwings> The Raspberry Pi is currently unavailable for purchase from the official website, but may be pre-ordered through foundation partners (list partners here). Beware of unlicensed resellers, like those on e-bay.
[2:20] <SpeedEvil> Ok.
[2:20] <raaaaspi> Byan: I heard that the GPIO pins are still there underneath but you'll probably need to do some soldering to get to them
[2:20] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: Thank you!
[2:20] <ReggieUK> ie8 is being a tard and allowing apple to grab the image, won't let me save it anywhere, unless you want me to link directly to that image
[2:21] <SpeedEvil> If the above picture of the PI is accurate - ignore the comments about 'I heard 16V is OK'
[2:21] <ReggieUK> and what is the opinion of everyone about the validity of the image
[2:21] <des2> "Beta board (retail board will not include pin headers)"
[2:21] <Byan> raaaaspi: the header is still there...
[2:21] <SpeedEvil> The absolute maximum of the chip is 6V
[2:21] <SpeedEvil> And 5.5V is recommended maximum.
[2:21] <Byan> raaaaspi: err, the.. throughholes are still there*
[2:21] <ReggieUK> I don't want to change teh picture if it's wrong in some way
[2:21] <des2> RIght holes for the header but no header pins
[2:21] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: Mine or the old one?
[2:21] <ReggieUK> also, I'm not changing any links for the forums, they will be back up at some point soon no doubt, whereas we have no idea on shop status, so better to direct people to farnell
[2:22] <ReggieUK> oldtopman, yours :)
[2:22] <GabrialDestruir> So if you want header pins you have to solder them yourself?
[2:22] <raaaaspi> It sounds like the image is going to have to change a lot for the new boards anyway so there's little point in bothering to change just the ram right now
[2:22] <ReggieUK> what page am I looking at too, to change the picture on
[2:22] <Byan> GabrialDestruir: yes
[2:22] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: Let me get a picture and check out that picture.
[2:22] * oldtopman has mad gimp skills
[2:22] <GabrialDestruir> Good thing I'll probably never need header pins
[2:22] <GabrialDestruir> ^_^
[2:23] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: Would have been better to have them and not need them to not have them and need them
[2:23] <des2> Would increase cost
[2:23] <ReggieUK> GabrialDestruir, they're not difficult to solder
[2:23] <Byan> raaaaspi: it's not like you don't have them..
[2:23] <Byan> you just need to spend 10 minutes attaching the pins..
[2:23] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[2:23] <ReggieUK> It's not like you can't grab header pins from any arduino webshop
[2:23] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if there's a way to add them without soldering.. o.O
[2:24] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: That was the only thing I changed, everything else looks good though.
[2:24] <raaaaspi> yes, but if this is targeted towards education
[2:24] <des2> And to think people wanted to solder the broadcom chip
[2:24] <hotwings> regular people + surface mount = disaster
[2:24] <Tachyon`> hrmph
[2:25] <ReggieUK> sorry, I didn't see what you changed at all oldtopman, what was it you changed?
[2:25] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: The RAM. Both boards have the 256MB now.
[2:25] <Byan> I wonder how much RPI is making on each board now..
[2:25] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=14195& One the inside put something that could "attach" to the holes properly then have a little space on the outside of the case with proper header pins
[2:25] <Byan> with the liscense stuff
[2:25] <raaaaspi> make the background magenta. white is so boring
[2:25] <hotwings> he soiled when i suggested the ram text should be double-spaced
[2:25] <oldtopman> So I have two revisions of the picture now. http://t.co/LhjM98VV and http://t.co/cMkQjcZK
[2:25] <Tachyon`> 256MB on the model A does make it worth using
[2:26] <Byan> oldtopman: err, why don't you just wait for RPI to fix it?
[2:26] <shirro> hotwings: I once removed and resoldering some many legged creatures with the scaled equivalent of a gutter iron. A BGA is probably too insane even for me.
[2:26] <Tachyon`> and removes the need to test model b software can handle having less than half the available ram
[2:26] <des2> oldtopman I would just cjhange it to 256MB Ram (both A and B models)
[2:26] <oldtopman> hotwings: I don't have the font. I can't make any of the changes you suggested. I understand you want the B model to (incorrectly) state that it has 512MB RAM, but there's only so much I can do.
[2:26] <Byan> they will probably update the image themeselves..
[2:26] <des2> To be slightly more clear
[2:27] <Tachyon`> BGA is evil, reballing kits are readily available now though
[2:27] <oldtopman> Byan: Already contacted them, just wondering if anyone here could get it one quicker.
[2:27] <raaaaspi> make it magenta
[2:27] <Byan> why do you care >_>
[2:27] <Byan> you people have too much time on your hands
[2:27] <shirro> Tachyon`: Not working with anything where I may need to reattach balls for obvious reasons
[2:28] * Ploggy (560b3685@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.11.54.133) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:28] <raaaaspi> magenta and comic sans
[2:28] <hotwings> oldtopman - you dont need the font.. its called cut&paste
[2:28] <oldtopman> hotwings: And where, pray tell could I find the 5 and the 1 in that font on that document?
[2:29] <hotwings> what are you talking about?
[2:29] <Byan> Tachyon`: yes, it's a much welcomed change. Makes things alot less complicated.
[2:29] <Byan> apparently he thinks you want me to make model b say 512MB
[2:29] <Byan> want him*
[2:29] <hotwings> you just create a selection around "256MB RAM" and depending on your editing software, just move it
[2:30] <GabrialDestruir> Well the 1 was on the previous layout
[2:30] <GabrialDestruir> 128MB
[2:30] <GabrialDestruir> and the 5 is in 256
[2:30] <Tachyon`> 256MB is perfectly adequate, the pandora does very well in it
[2:30] <hotwings> Byan - why on earth would he think that? i didnt say anything about 512
[2:30] <Byan> I really have no idea
[2:30] <hotwings> Tachyon` - 256MB is adequate only depending on the task
[2:30] * oldtopman wonders if this will also be able to handle n64 games with no stutter.
[2:31] <Tachyon`> don't count on it
[2:31] <Ploggy> Hi guys. just talked to Deunan (dreamcast dev) and asked if it were possible to port his emu to the Rpi, he says sadly it's not possible (fullspeed)
[2:31] <Ploggy> shame
[2:31] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[2:31] <Tachyon`> you'll get full speed psx though
[2:31] <Ploggy> really?
[2:31] <Tachyon`> oh yes
[2:31] <Ploggy> i dunno
[2:31] <Ploggy> hope so
[2:32] <Ploggy> i think n64 would be a bit of a stretch tho
[2:32] <GabrialDestruir> If it can do full speed PSX shouldn't it be able to do N64?
[2:32] <Ploggy> no
[2:32] <Tachyon`> I'd imagine some n64 games will run acceptably
[2:32] <Tachyon`> the N64 chipset is rather complex
[2:32] <Ploggy> any Rare game would def have issues
[2:32] <Byan> it's certainly possible that it can do n64 full speed, without issue.
[2:32] <Byan> it's just not practical.
[2:33] <des2> It's not a game machine.
[2:33] <oldtopman> I mean, the OP can, but it was desined around gaming.
[2:33] <oldtopman> anyway, afk
[2:33] <Tachyon`> the pandora n64 emulation is far from perfect
[2:33] <Tachyon`> it won't run the games I want it to run at all although it does run some popular games
[2:33] <GabrialDestruir> Still, being able to run all the classic games would be awesome :p
[2:33] <Ploggy> still would be cool to have the rpi as a emu box
[2:33] <des2> It'll run Classic Pong
[2:33] <Tachyon`> yes, I'm pondering the raspberry pi and some sort of mini arcade machine
[2:34] * Tachyon` eyes that internal LCD connector again with interest
[2:34] <Byan> man, you guys certainly like to get ahead of yourselves.
[2:34] <Ploggy> i'm going to try to build the Rpi into my tv :)
[2:34] <Tachyon`> not really, lol
[2:34] <Tachyon`> the machine is designed to be hackable
[2:34] <GabrialDestruir> Speculation is always good, Byan
[2:34] <des2> No opensource hardware is designed to be hackable
[2:34] <Ploggy> spurs conversatio n lol
[2:35] <des2> Closed source less so.
[2:35] <ReggieUK> oldtopman, that image is wrong!!
[2:35] <ReggieUK> just spotted it
[2:35] * Tachyon` blinks
[2:35] <Ploggy> so how many are you guys hoping to pick up
[2:35] <Tachyon`> well now I've missed the first batch
[2:35] <GabrialDestruir> I'm starting with one.
[2:35] <ReggieUK> damnit he's gone :D
[2:35] <Tachyon`> despite being up at 6am
[2:35] <GabrialDestruir> Which will probably end up as a Media Center...
[2:35] <Tachyon`> and spending 90 minutes attempting to buy one
[2:35] <Byan> Ploggy: probably 2 A's, 2 B's
[2:36] <Tachyon`> I'll proabbly start with 3 from the second batch, then see where I go from there
[2:36] <ReggieUK> and the original is wrong too
[2:36] <des2> You gonna do WiFi on the A's Byan ?
[2:36] <Byan> ReggieUK: how so?
[2:36] <Ploggy> i'll probably not bother with the A..just get a few B's
[2:36] <ReggieUK> wait, no it's fine, my bad
[2:36] <GabrialDestruir> Then I'll probably get a second one to do other little projects with, and expand my collection from there.
[2:36] <Byan> des2: yes
[2:37] <Byan> I'll probably wait until they have LCD panels before getting any of the A's though.
[2:37] <GabrialDestruir> Like if I build a project and decide not to scrap it I could invest in another one to dev on while that does whatever it's purpose is.
[2:37] <Ploggy> was telling my sister about it the other day and she said she's going to pick up a few too.
[2:38] <GabrialDestruir> I'm curious if we can get an Xbox 360 remote working on one of these >.>
[2:38] <Tachyon`> probably
[2:38] <Ploggy> just the fact it plays 1080 and she's sold lol
[2:38] <raaaaspi> does a 2gb os image size sound a bit bloated to you?
[2:38] <Tachyon`> are they bluetooth?
[2:38] <Byan> no Tachyon`
[2:38] <Tachyon`> oh, perhaps not then
[2:38] <GabrialDestruir> The one I have is wired.
[2:38] <Tachyon`> if microsoft used somethign proprietary -.-
[2:38] <Tachyon`> ahh
[2:38] <GabrialDestruir> So USB
[2:38] <Tachyon`> I'd expect USB controllers to work
[2:38] <Byan> but they make usb receivers. If they work on linux, it'll work on the RPI
[2:38] <GabrialDestruir> The real question is drivers.
[2:39] <ReggieUK> ok, done
[2:39] <Byan> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Xbox360Controller
[2:39] <GabrialDestruir> They wouldn't have to ported or anything to ARM?
[2:39] <Ploggy> When you buy the board does it come with the charge lead?
[2:39] <des2> Ibnfrared doesn't require much in the driver world.
[2:39] <Tachyon`> I have a little wireless logitech one, playstation type design but usb wifi dongle, should work quite nicely for controlling the TV
[2:39] <raaaaspi> Ploggy: One of the guys who got a beta board did an AMA on reddit, and he said they were very careful with which video they showed in promo shots. And that it's very sketchy at the moment.
[2:39] <ReggieUK> I think loads of people will buy pi
[2:39] <ReggieUK> my dad is 65 and he's getting one
[2:39] <des2> Why ?
[2:39] <Byan> GabrialDestruir: most things are designed to be portable. will probably just work.
[2:39] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
[2:40] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:40] <ReggieUK> and not because it's something to jump on that the kids are doing, he can code perfectly well in C/C++
[2:40] * cerberos (~cerberos@58.137.9.242) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:40] <Ploggy> @raaaaspi really.. shenanigans??
[2:41] <GabrialDestruir> The pi could be my solution to building my idea for an emulation system.... the real issue comes into the interface.... will probably have to be custom and controller friendly....
[2:41] <Ben64> GabrialDestruir: no
[2:41] <ReggieUK> if you're only aim is to emulate gba then go for it :D
[2:41] <raaaaspi> Ploggy: Well, they'll probably get quality video working, but at the time it was only really that bunny video that got a steady framerate and even then it was without sound
[2:41] <ReggieUK> your*
[2:42] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:42] <GabrialDestruir> It should be able to do NES shouldn't it? >.>
[2:42] <Ben64> yes
[2:42] <Byan> GabrialDestruir: Honestly, if you want emulation, get a AMD APU
[2:43] <raaaaspi> There aren't that many emulators for ARM. There's only the ones for android.
[2:43] <ReggieUK> ?
[2:43] <Tachyon`> there's loads of emulators for ARM
[2:43] <Byan> raaaaspi: almost all android is ARM.
[2:43] <Tachyon`> and they're very easy to build in the main
[2:43] <Ploggy> @raaaaspi. well the was one of the biggest selling points for me. but it's not a deal breaker :)
[2:43] * brougham (brougham@wintermute.brougham.info) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:43] <raaaaspi> I meant, console emulators, like nes, working on arm
[2:43] <Tachyon`> yes
[2:43] <ReggieUK> I wouldn't go so far as very easy to compile :D
[2:43] <Ben64> android is running java type stuff though
[2:43] <Tachyon`> shedloads of them, lol
[2:44] <ReggieUK> indeed
[2:44] <Byan> Ben64: you can run native code...
[2:44] <ReggieUK> there's even mame for arm isn't there
[2:44] <Byan> most games use native code.
[2:44] <ReggieUK> if not then just find the sdl version :D
[2:44] <Tachyon`> you can just build anything from source
[2:44] <Tachyon`> some things will need some optimisation to work
[2:44] <Tachyon`> specifically amiga and n64
[2:44] <GabrialDestruir> http://caesar.logiqx.com/php/emulator.php?id=armmame
[2:44] <Tachyon`> but anything else you can just build and it should worok
[2:45] <ReggieUK> some of it will be ok with the pi, hopefully because we'll get better support, in so much that the pi is made to be programmed
[2:45] <ReggieUK> so that will hopefully make things easier
[2:45] <Tachyon`> heh, that is a mame from 1999
[2:45] <Tachyon`> for RISC OS
[2:45] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[2:45] <Algo> Why are people so excited about raspberrypi? I'm told from a performance POV, it's just as general dev board. Lack of documentation, largely, and sucky power saving.
[2:45] <Ben64> mame probably won't work very well on pi
[2:45] <GabrialDestruir> It's ARM and it makes a point :p
[2:45] <ReggieUK> http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/?page_id=163
[2:45] <Ben64> Algo: $35
[2:45] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[2:46] <GabrialDestruir> It "does" exist.
[2:46] <ReggieUK> that would be my bet for getting soemthing running mamewise with the least amount of pain
[2:46] <des2> Algo cheap, small and low power
[2:46] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:46] <des2> But I'd agree Algo if you posited people may be expecting too much out of it
[2:46] <Algo> Ben64: Would you purchase a prostitute on that basis?
[2:46] <Tachyon`> something icade sized but rpi based that cost the same for the machine as well as the case/controls would really stick it to the apple owners -.o
[2:46] <Byan> excitement is good though.
[2:46] <Ploggy> you would probably be better off working with an older version of mame
[2:46] <Byan> hopefully we'll see competing boards soon.
[2:47] <Ben64> Algo: not even related to this
[2:47] <Tachyon`> er? why would you hope for that
[2:47] <ReggieUK> Algo, depends if she's got all her own teeth
[2:47] <Byan> Tachyon`: why would I not hope for that?
[2:47] <GabrialDestruir> des2, We're being hopeful, no one will no for sure exactly what it will and won't do until people start receiving them and trying them out.
[2:47] <Tachyon`> if everyone is developing on the same hardware we'll see more progress than with fragmentation due to additional boards
[2:47] <GabrialDestruir> I mean... the Pi can run Quake 3, it should be able to run a few emulators
[2:48] <ReggieUK> that's not really a good comparison GabrialDestruir
[2:48] <shirro> GabrialDestruir: Quake isn't being emulated. It is running natively
[2:48] <GabrialDestruir> Fair enough.
[2:48] <Tachyon`> which is still cool btw
[2:48] <Tachyon`> wonder if it'll run in 1920x1080, Quake HD, eheh
[2:49] <ReggieUK> q3 is running through opengl support isn't it? so hardware accelerated, emulators are running code that is pretending to be all of the subsystems of the original console/arcade machine
[2:49] <GabrialDestruir> But it shows that the potential is there to do more than just.... well the nothing everyone makes it sound like it's good for.
[2:49] <ReggieUK> before it even bothers running any code
[2:49] <Byan> thats not completely true ReggieUK.
[2:50] <ReggieUK> how so?
[2:50] <Tachyon`> some emulators can be hardware accelerated to a point, the PSX and N64 particularly
[2:50] <ReggieUK> oh sure, I Thought you were just talking in general though :)
[2:51] <Byan> hrm.. today is already thursday
[2:51] <Byan> when did that happen
[2:51] <Tachyon`> not sure what hardware acceleration will be available on the boards mind
[2:51] <Tachyon`> wasn't there some issue with proprietary drivers?
[2:51] <Algo> RaspberryPi vs. Arduino
[2:51] <Algo> go
[2:51] <Tachyon`> invalid comparison?
[2:52] <ReggieUK> one runs an os, the other doesn't?
[2:52] <GabrialDestruir> PC vs Non PC Component.... Go
[2:52] <Tachyon`> the arduino is microcontroller meccano
[2:52] <ReggieUK> ones got 19 spare gpio, the other hasn't
[2:52] <des2> RaspberryPI = software hacking, Arduino = hardware hacking
[2:52] <Tachyon`> the pi is a real computer
[2:52] <Byan> 'real computer'
[2:52] <Byan> hrm
[2:52] <Byan> anyway
[2:52] <ReggieUK> actually, the pi = hardware hacking too
[2:53] <Byan> Tachyon`: I'm hoping we'll get something thats broken out more thats similarlly priced.
[2:53] <Tachyon`> the gertboard has more in common with arduino than does the pi
[2:53] <GabrialDestruir> I don't see why that's quoted.. the pi IS a computer, just not your traditional x86 type.
[2:53] <Tachyon`> like the gertboard?
[2:53] <Byan> Tachyon`: or something that I could actually order and have built..
[2:53] <Byan> no.. like.. if I want to access specific pin on the broadcom.. I can't..
[2:53] <Ben64> you couldn't anyway
[2:53] <Tachyon`> I'm sure people will sell assembled gertboards when the machines are out there
[2:54] <Byan> thats not the point.. the gertboard deosn't do wahat I want at all
[2:54] <des2> Where can I buy a Gertboard ?
[2:54] <Byan> for instance, I want to be able to use the external crystal pins of the broadcom
[2:54] <Tachyon`> you can't afaik, yet...
[2:54] <Byan> but thats impossible
[2:54] <des2> exactly
[2:55] <Byan> it'd be awesome to be able to make ~50 or so custom made RPI's for exactly what you're doing.
[2:55] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:55] <Byan> this will never happen with broadcom.. but maybe it will for a competator.
[2:55] <des2> There are lots of similar products but they are ignored due to price
[2:56] <Byan> honestly, what I want is to make an open source, audiophile, mp3 player.
[2:56] <GabrialDestruir> Maybe the next batch of Pi's will ahve better hardware.
[2:56] <GabrialDestruir> have*
[2:56] <kyzz> They haven't stated anything like that though :(
[2:56] <des2> Who will produce someting similar for a similar price (all design basically done for free)
[2:56] <GabrialDestruir> more open source and such.
[2:56] <Ben64> Byan: then do it?
[2:56] <des2> Byan I've seen similar ideaas using the Arduino
[2:57] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:57] <Byan> des2: err.. no you haven't? =)
[2:57] <Byan> Arduino isn't fast enough for this..
[2:57] <GabrialDestruir> You're what, wanting to play FLAC?
[2:58] <Byan> sure.
[2:58] * brougham (brougham@wintermute.brougham.info) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[2:58] <Ben64> http://kalum.posterous.com/50759184
[2:59] <Algo> is RaspberryPi trying to become the next BBC Micro?
[2:59] <Byan> des2: anyway, you could be right... but RPI is in a new market. all to itself... people might want to get into that.
[2:59] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@123.98.132.24) Quit (Quit: alecthegeek)
[2:59] <Tachyon`> it will be if risc os is ported
[3:00] <Byan> Ben64: I don't want to use a codec chip.
[3:00] <GabrialDestruir> The problem is, the Pi can meet it's price point because it's all Non-Profit, right?
[3:00] <shirro> Tachyon`: riscos is a bit backward by todays standards isn't it
[3:00] <des2> RIght
[3:00] <des2> Basically 6-years of planning and design for free
[3:00] <Byan> 21:00 DaQatz [~DB@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] requested unknown CTCP RASPBERRYPI from #raspberrypi:
[3:00] <Tachyon`> riscos is pretty quick
[3:00] <Byan> fail?
[3:01] <DaQatz> No
[3:01] <GabrialDestruir> Unless they design a something that meets an even lower price point, you really can't mark it up without leaving that price range.
[3:01] <Tachyon`> and it was good enough for windows 95 to steal hugely from it
[3:01] <des2> Plus contacts with Broadcom that got an excellent deal
[3:01] * jesse (~jesse@foresight/developer/jesse) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[3:01] <shirro> Does riscos support SMP or premeptive multitasking yet?
[3:01] <GabrialDestruir> Means any company wanting to make a profit can't compete.
[3:01] <DaQatz> But still did not get a pi in response
[3:01] <Byan> GabrialDestruir: RPI is still making a profit.
[3:01] <des2> Not really a profit
[3:01] <Byan> yes really a profit..
[3:01] <kyzz> It's all "charity
[3:02] <des2> Cause not counting their costs for overhead/developemnt
[3:02] <des2> But they will get a cut from each board sold
[3:02] <Tachyon`> the first 10 sold certainly made something of a profit
[3:02] <des2> ha ha
[3:02] <des2> ebay profits
[3:02] <kyzz> How much does each board actually cost to make hardware wise? Anyone have guesses?
[3:02] <Tachyon`> about what they're charging I think
[3:02] <Byan> they are very much hiding that
[3:02] <Henchman21> slave china labor
[3:02] <Ben64> between $0 and $35 for B
[3:02] <Tachyon`> I doubt there's much if any profit on them
[3:02] <des2> You'd have to know how much broadcom charged them for the chips.
[3:03] <Tachyon`> and they're not made in foxconn I suspect
[3:03] <Byan> Tachyon`: well, you can tell they are making probably ~$10 for the Model B
[3:03] <raaaaspi> the chips cost pennies
[3:03] <Byan> because the stuff added to the model B isn't /that/ expensive.
[3:03] <Henchman21> i bet broadcom was going to throw them away
[3:03] <Ben64> everything costs pennies
[3:03] <Byan> at least $10*
[3:03] <GabrialDestruir> They're probably making them for right about the range their selling in, maybe between 5-10 dollars difference.
[3:03] <GabrialDestruir> they're*
[3:04] <Byan> DaQatz: fail again?
[3:04] <Byan> wtf are you doing?
[3:04] * DaQatz did not fail.
[3:04] <Byan> I think you did
[3:04] <DaQatz> Even the first time
[3:04] <Byan> don't beleive you.
[3:04] <Henchman21> everyone pm DaQatz
[3:04] * brougham (brougham@wintermute.brougham.info) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:04] <des2> He didn't fail he just found several things that don't work
[3:04] <DaQatz> ._.
[3:05] <Byan> everyone do /notice DaQatz FAIL
[3:05] <DaQatz> I have not been using notice.
[3:05] <Byan> yes you have?
[3:05] <DaQatz> Nope
[3:05] <Byan> CTCP is a notice
[3:05] <DaQatz> \u001
[3:05] <raaaaspi> It's kinda weird that the price they market it as is pre-vat, as everything else sold in the uk is price listed with vat included
[3:05] <DaQatz> No ctcp REPLIES are a notice
[3:06] <Byan> a CTCP sends a MSG?
[3:06] <Byan> are*
[3:06] <GabrialDestruir> It's not weird at all raaaaspi
[3:06] <DaQatz> You request on msg and reply in notice
[3:06] <DaQatz> To stop loops
[3:06] <GabrialDestruir> They dedicated themselves to builing it in a 25-35 USD range
[3:06] <Byan> hrm
[3:06] <Byan> faire enough
[3:06] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: They're a uk company
[3:06] <des2> http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/ctcpspec.html
[3:06] <DaQatz> I just wrapped text 0x01
[3:06] <Tachyon`> I'm just amazed they actually sold for the price they said they'd be sold for
[3:06] <Byan> GabrialDestruir: honestly, I think they shouldn't've done that
[3:06] <Byan> I rather they were 30 and 40 and less cut corners.
[3:06] <Tachyon`> you sort of expect these things to go up by launch day
[3:06] <des2> I agree Tachyon. Refreshing change in that
[3:07] <raaaaspi> Tachyon`: There would be a shit-storm if they didn't
[3:07] <kyzz> what does the notice function do?
[3:07] <Byan> raaaaspi: not really.. as long as they weren't double
[3:07] <des2> Notices are meant for autoresponders
[3:07] <des2> Like bots and services etc.
[3:07] <Byan> since when?
[3:07] <Byan> does the rfc actually say that?
[3:08] <GabrialDestruir> The Client-To-Client Protocol is meant to be used as a way to 1/ in general send structured data (such as graphics, voice and different font information) between users clients, and in a more specific case: 2/ place a query to a users client and getting an answer.
[3:08] <ReggieUK> non vat price isn't what everyone does in the uk, quite a lot you will get both non-vat and vatted pricing
[3:08] <Byan> The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies must never be sent in response to a NOTICE message
[3:08] <ReggieUK> or rather vat price*
[3:08] <DaQatz> Correct
[3:09] <Byan> yeah, ok, des2.
[3:09] <ReggieUK> especially on somewhere like farnell
[3:09] <Byan> so if you read between the lines, autoresponses should be sent in NOTICE to avoid a response being sent to an autoresponse.
[3:09] <ReggieUK> where they might expect you to actually have vat number and be purchasing 1000 items at a time through an account
[3:09] <mpthompson> I would like to get familiar with the graphic/sound capaiblities of the RPi. Are there equivalents to OpenGL ES, OpenVG and other stuff on the RPi available for Linux running on a PC?
[3:09] * saua (~saua@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[3:09] <des2> RIght Byan
[3:10] <DaQatz> Each time I wrapped my text in 0x01 I got a ton of notices back though
[3:10] <des2> THis prevents 2 bots from looping
[3:10] <DaQatz> Mostly "I don't know this ctcp" messages
[3:10] <DaQatz> des2, and clients
[3:11] <des2> yes
[3:11] <DaQatz> Else a simple version request would loop
[3:11] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: What's wrong with the images?
[3:11] <shirro> mpthompson: This! I really want a desktop dev environment close to the RaspberryPi GPU stack
[3:11] <Ben64> isn't there a r-?? emulator
[3:11] <shirro> mpthompson: I think Mesa will do OpenGLES2
[3:12] <Byan> Ben64: no, it's an ARM emulator
[3:12] <DaQatz> Ben64, There is qemu
[3:12] <Byan> it won't emulate the GPU
[3:12] <raaaaspi> You can emulate it in qemu
[3:12] <DaQatz> That does the correct cpu
[3:12] <Ben64> oh
[3:12] <Ben64> then.... try stuff out on an android phone :D
[3:12] <raaaaspi> There are qemu images on the forum somewhere
[3:12] <shirro> mpthompson: There are a couple of OpenVG-ish things on github. MonkVG and ShivaVG
[3:12] <DaQatz> Forum is down
[3:12] <mkopack> raaaaspi: Give me a sec, I have it bookmarked
[3:13] <mkopack> http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/02/18/raspberry-pi-releases-1st-sd-card-image-debian-how-to-use-it-in-the-emulator/
[3:13] <shirro> mpthompson: I am looking for a forum/list/thing where I can get more info and share in that topic
[3:13] <Byan> anyway
[3:13] <raaaaspi> shirro: The forums are down at the moment
[3:13] <Byan> here is hoping that mpeg2 gets added to the RPI
[3:14] <raaaaspi> Byan: It needs licensing right?
[3:14] <mpthompson> shirro: I'm looking as well. It looks like we would have to find a vendor who released OpenGL ES drivers for GPU hardware found on a PC. However, I'm new to all this and there may be other routes to getting things.
[3:14] <Byan> well, no, it needs drivers/firmware.
[3:14] <Byan> but in order to distribute those, they need liscensing
[3:15] <raaaaspi> Byan: Well then you have your answer
[3:16] <Byan> I've been wondering if the RPI development will lead to people wantting to break into the Roku
[3:16] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[3:16] <Byan> and somehow use it's blobs and such..
[3:16] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:17] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sure if you give it time, you'll get things like mpeg2 as the development around the Pi becomes more stable.
[3:17] <Byan> err..
[3:17] <Byan> no one can "develop" mpeg2
[3:17] <Byan> the arm cpu isn't powerful enough to do hd mpeg2 on it's own
[3:18] <Byan> so, unless someone reverse engineers the gpu arch stuff.
[3:18] <Byan> it'll be impossible to get mpeg2 without broadcom releasing the firmware for it.
[3:18] <GabrialDestruir> Well no, but as development becomes stable, and the boards are getting used, the foundation might licesnse for mpeg2 and release firmware, etc.
[3:18] <raaaaspi> I think they once said they were considering an aftermarket codec pack purchase
[3:19] <GabrialDestruir> It's not like that's something that had to be done at the factory, so nothing is preventing them from releasing it later
[3:19] <mpthompson> shirro: I found the following link regarding OpenGL ES under Ubuntu on a PC. Probably useful information: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3809236/opengl-es-2-0-on-linux
[3:19] <shirro> mpthompson: Not holding out hope for vendor support for mobile stuff on desktop. More likely to find Open Source software emulations. Looks like GLES and some level of OpenVG is possible. Nothing on OpenMax so far.
[3:19] <Byan> GabrialDestruir: this is true..
[3:19] <raaaaspi> GabrialDestruir: It's all about cost. The licenses are non-transferable and require a minimum purchase of a million iirc
[3:20] <shirro> I have compiled GLES demos using Mesa on by Ubuntu desktop.
[3:20] <Byan> raaaaspi: it's more complicated than that
[3:20] <shirro> Can't remember if it supported EGL or if I had to use Glut to set up the window etc. Kind of new to this.
[3:21] <GabrialDestruir> Well sure, raaaaspi, but once the Pi becomes more wide spread, there'd be more reason to do something like that.
[3:21] <mpthompson> My interest is getting the Gosu game library (Ruby/C++) or something close ported over to the RPi. It's dependent upon OpenGL and a number of other things. I've had luck teaching my son programming with Ruby/Gosu and would like to keep with that if possible.
[3:21] <GabrialDestruir> Than say, putting it on the device at release.... and finding you only sell 10k
[3:22] <Byan> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=u241282t0f0fp70068dd0c0s701&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16856119060
[3:22] <Byan> holy cheap..;
[3:22] <Byan> too bad they sold out..
[3:22] <mpthompson> However, it may be easier just to switch to Python which looks to be MUCH more supported under the RPi.
[3:22] <Byan> err...
[3:22] <GabrialDestruir> o.o
[3:22] <Byan> RPI runs linux
[3:23] <GabrialDestruir> my loard that's cheap.
[3:23] <Byan> ruby and python are equally supported mpthompson
[3:23] <kyzz> Byan what exactly is that
[3:23] <shirro> mpthompson: I am just starting to learn this stuff but if it currently targets a fairly modern sort of OpenGl using shaders for everything it probably won't be hard to port
[3:23] <mpthompson> Byan, however, a number of Gems under Ruby are natively compiled and dependent upon native libraries that may not be around on the RPi for a while.
[3:24] <GabrialDestruir> That, kyzz, is a computer.
[3:24] <GabrialDestruir> A really cheap one
[3:24] <Byan> mpthompson: lol, I'm 99% sure all of them will be fine
[3:25] <kyzz> I'm aware of that , but it's categorized as a "barebone" system so what are these even used for?
[3:25] <mpthompson> At least the Gems commonly used for game programming under Ruby such as Gosu, Rmagick, Texplay.
[3:25] <Byan> it doesn't come with ram or a HDD kyzz
[3:25] <GabrialDestruir> Computing?
[3:25] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[3:26] <GabrialDestruir> You add a little to it, and it's a computer .-. Sheesh.
[3:26] <des2> When's the last time you really computer something?...
[3:26] <des2> computed rather
[3:26] <GabrialDestruir> Last Week.
[3:26] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[3:26] <GabrialDestruir> The week before that....
[3:26] <des2> (checksums don't count)
[3:26] <GabrialDestruir> and the week before that.
[3:26] <Byan> does writing software that computes stuff count?
[3:27] <GabrialDestruir> we have to do these silly little VB projects for my class which has to "compute" figures and stuff.
[3:27] <Byan> I unit test it, so i guess I am computing.
[3:27] <kyzz> I understand that...I just don't see the purpose of a computer like that when you could just build a better one?
[3:27] <des2> No that's compiling not computing
[3:27] <GabrialDestruir> The actual compiled programs do equations and stuff
[3:27] <des2> Actually that one is small and at a good price
[3:27] <GabrialDestruir> that's computing
[3:27] <Byan> kyzz: it's the best computer you could get for $100
[3:27] <des2> Just add Ram a disk and OS
[3:28] <Byan> it's like, why use the RPI when you could buy a better computer?
[3:28] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.209.214) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:28] <kyzz> Ah alright haha that's more of an answer I was looking for not a matter of fact answer lol
[3:29] <GabrialDestruir> to determine by calculation; reckon; calculate, the programs I have to make have to calculate things like shipping or how many items will fit in one box and how many boxes will you have etc
[3:29] <GabrialDestruir> So that's computing :p
[3:29] <des2> lol
[3:29] * Xark_ (32717be5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.113.123.229) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:29] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-198-103-249.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:30] <Byan> reminding me of the XKCD.. where he is remarking on how much shit it going on in the CPU just so you can play a flash video.
[3:30] <GabrialDestruir> Actually I take it back, just two days ago
[3:30] * brougham (brougham@wintermute.brougham.info) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:31] <GabrialDestruir> I computed the cost between Euros GBP and USD
[3:31] <GabrialDestruir> and today I computed battery life....
[3:31] <GabrialDestruir> :p
[3:32] <GabrialDestruir> Ugh...
[3:32] * raaaaspi (5ec537b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.197.55.179) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[3:32] <GabrialDestruir> my VM is broken
[3:32] <Byan> I don't understand everyone's fascination with VMs
[3:33] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@123.98.132.6) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:33] <GabrialDestruir> It's a good way to have multiple computers fast?
[3:33] <des2> It's a good way to run pirated software without risks ?
[3:34] <Byan> what risks were there before?
[3:34] <GabrialDestruir> Well my Windows OS is pirated... but that's only because I didn't want to pay for a second copy just to run in a VM .-.
[3:34] <des2> That the pirated software is really a trojan that's going to empty your paypal account ?
[3:34] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@123.98.132.6) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:34] <GabrialDestruir> That too
[3:35] <des2> So you ar erunning windows in a VM under windows ?
[3:35] <GabrialDestruir> Yes, my VM I use for school... less distracting.
[3:36] <Byan> I do use a VM because the VPN software my company uses is very intrusive..
[3:36] * EspadaV8 (~EspadaV8@unaffiliated/espadav8) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:36] <Byan> so, it does come in handy there
[3:36] <Byan> but thats not the normal use case.
[3:36] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[3:37] * Buuyo (electrum@ieee1003.1-1988.posi.xxx) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:37] <GabrialDestruir> I also use a VM to run Ubuntu
[3:37] <GabrialDestruir> and I have a rather pointless pfsense firewall that's protecting all my VMs from whatever network they're connected to
[3:40] * brougham (brougham@wintermute.brougham.info) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:40] <GabrialDestruir> Pointless in the sense that it's not properly configured, yet I still have and use it, but I suppose it's not pointless in the sense it keeps my two or three or how many ever VMs I decide to run from looking like a gazillion computers
[3:41] <Byan> you don't have an external router to do that anyway?
[3:42] * DaFox_ (~DaFox@S0106001839cfa51a.ss.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:44] <GabrialDestruir> Right but multiple VMs tend to clutter up the dhcp list on my router.
[3:44] <GabrialDestruir> Or use to
[3:47] * DataSpree (~DataSpree@ip72-204-12-32.fv.ks.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:47] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
[3:48] <GabrialDestruir> Eh I guess I'm just weird like that.
[3:48] * victhor (~victhor@177.17.104.213) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:50] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:51] * swiley (~swiley@c-98-249-29-242.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzzz)
[3:54] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[3:55] * roteiro (~qicruser@dslb-084-058-178-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:05] * Zagrophyte (~Zagrophyt@unaffiliated/zagrophyte) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:06] * Ploggy (560b3685@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.11.54.133) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[4:09] * rk[imposter] is now known as ryankarason
[4:09] * Zagrophyte (~Zagrophyt@unaffiliated/zagrophyte) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:10] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c531a.dynamic.uiowa.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:14] * oberling_ (~oberling@brln-4dbc4d9c.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:17] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4d0c2a66.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:26] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c531a.dynamic.uiowa.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:27] * mpthompson (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.131.39.81) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[4:33] * no-name- (~no-name@180.237.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:34] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:37] <kyzz> hmm
[4:37] <DataSpree> hmm?
[4:37] <DaQatz> hmm!
[4:40] <kyzz> Not sure
[4:48] * swiley (~swiley@143.sub-75-243-109.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:50] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@123.98.133.14) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:53] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@63-152-79-50.cdrr.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:02] * UnaClocker (~unaclocke@24-113-85-150.wavecable.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[5:22] * ryankarason is now known as rk[sleep]
[5:22] * rk[sleep] (~karason@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu) has left #raspberrypi
[5:23] * wkl (~Conan@61.135.152.207) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:24] * malandro95 (~malandro9@199.30.184.116) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:25] * wkl (~Conan@61.135.152.207) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:25] * wkl (~Conan@219.142.118.237) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:26] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5695.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[5:29] <kyzz> whats everyone up to
[5:29] * curahack (~michel@sub-190-88-65ip211.rev.onenet.an) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[5:31] <a5m0> not playing with their raspis that's for sure
[5:34] <kyzz> sadly true...
[5:35] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:36] <DaQatz> There are some people here with pi
[5:36] <DaQatz> Just very very few
[5:37] <oldtopman> DaQatz: Like whom?
[5:37] <DaQatz> MagicalTux has one
[5:37] <oldtopman> They haven't even made it from china yet!
[5:37] <oldtopman> orly?
[5:37] <oldtopman> how?
[5:37] <DaQatz> He bought one of the 10 beta boards
[5:37] <DaQatz> #6 I think
[5:38] <MagicalTux> yes
[5:38] <DaQatz> Also A few of the people here are devs, he may have alpha's
[5:38] <piofcube> MagicalTux: Glad someone in here got one of those
[5:40] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@123.98.133.14) Quit (Quit: alecthegeek)
[5:40] <MagicalTux> been trying various things :)
[5:40] <piofcube> have you tried the composite output?
[5:42] <piofcube> Just wondering what the sync is like... It can be problematic particularly on tv sets which don't have fine tuning controls.
[5:42] * Karmaon (~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[5:43] <Aethaeryn> So what would the main use case be (other than buying a few thousand and using them to run map reduce)? TV?
[5:43] <piofcube> Sometimes the picture can be a little too high or loe on the screen
[5:43] <piofcube> low**
[5:44] <piofcube> aethaeryn: Depends on what you want to do with it guess ;_0
[5:44] * piofcube gets new fingers
[5:44] <DaQatz> ?me see the knew fingers are as useless as the old fingers.
[5:44] <piofcube> lol
[5:44] <Henchman21> new*
[5:45] <DaQatz> and /
[5:45] <Henchman21> i somehow knew you'd screw that up
[5:45] <DaQatz> nor ?
[5:45] * roman3x (~roman3x@bband-dyn33.178-40-206.t-com.sk) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:45] <DaQatz> You know, some of us actually plan on coding on these things.
[5:46] <DaQatz> As "strange" as that may sound.
[5:46] <DaQatz> I'll probably being running it headless though.
[5:46] <Aethaeryn> I'm just waiting for someone to make a 40+ cluster just because they can.
[5:47] <Henchman21> look there! they're trying to break their toys!
[5:47] <DaQatz> I dun really need th keyboard or mouse either.
[5:47] <des2> I get the opinion 90% of purchasers whant to make a media device
[5:47] <Henchman21> headless? what a waste
[5:47] <Aethaeryn> des2: Idk, it could be used as a server
[5:47] <DaQatz> Henchman21, how so?
[5:47] <Henchman21> get a openwrt router then
[5:47] <DaQatz> Henchman21, just needs to compile and run code.
[5:48] <DaQatz> I have one
[5:48] <DaQatz> No gcc
[5:48] <GabrialDestruir> That's probably right, des2, I mean I plan to use one of mine that way.
[5:48] <Aethaeryn> Henchman21: Not a waste.
[5:48] <des2> Did you order one Aethaeryn ? If do for what use ?
[5:48] <Henchman21> openwrt has gcc
[5:48] <Syliss> Henchman21: just cause its headless doesn't mean a router can replaces it
[5:48] <Aethaeryn> With ssh you can do almost everything you need.
[5:48] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:48] <DaQatz> Henchman21, Not in the repo for backfire mips
[5:49] <Henchman21> compile it yourself then
[5:49] <Henchman21> use an arm emulator
[5:49] <DaQatz> qemu is slower then the hardware I'm getting
[5:49] <Henchman21> cross compile
[5:49] <DaQatz> Cross compile HUH
[5:50] <DaQatz> That's a touch and go method
[5:50] <DaQatz> And damn long test cycle
[5:50] * swiley (~swiley@143.sub-75-243-109.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzzz)
[5:50] <Henchman21> excuses excuses
[5:50] <DaQatz> Plus my router, is busy routing
[5:50] <Syliss> lol
[5:51] <DaQatz> The rpi is a nice inexpensive device, that is both dedicated, and intended for coding on.
[5:51] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[5:51] <DaQatz> So not gonna DC compiling on it.
[5:52] <Henchman21> ive been crosscompiling my firmwares
[5:52] <Henchman21> not going to wait weeks to compile a kernel on a pi
[5:52] <GabrialDestruir> I wouldn't say dedicated... there will be plenty of people who don't intend to use it for coding.
[5:52] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@123.98.133.2) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:52] <DaQatz> You ever cross compiled perl or python?
[5:53] <Henchman21> i'd do it just to prove to you
[5:53] <DaQatz> GabrialDestruir, By dedicated I mean not being used for another purpose. Unlike my router, wich is routing packets
[5:53] <des2> You can compile while you sleep
[5:53] <GabrialDestruir> Oh
[5:53] <GabrialDestruir> Of course.
[5:54] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@123.98.133.2) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:55] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-198-103-249.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[5:56] * Karmaon (~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:58] * oberling_ (~oberling@brln-4dbc4d9c.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[5:58] <Henchman21> and if qemu is slow for you then you didnt use kqemu and/or your host sucks
[5:59] <Henchman21> i'd love to know how long it takes for a full kernel to build on a raspberry ppi
[6:02] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:02] <Aethaeryn> I'd love to know how long it takes for KDE to build on a raspberry pi
[6:03] <JairunCaloth> eons
[6:03] * Henchman21 wont hold breath
[6:03] <des2> And will it run after it builds....
[6:03] <JairunCaloth> I built something on my nexus one once
[6:04] <JairunCaloth> I think it was graphics drivers
[6:04] <JairunCaloth> can't remember
[6:04] * Buuyo (electrum@ieee1003.1-1988.posi.xxx) has left #raspberrypi
[6:04] <Aethaeryn> Most of my computing on my Nexus One is remote, i.e. sshing into another machine.
[6:04] <JairunCaloth> it wasn't very fast
[6:05] <JairunCaloth> I had gotten debian booting on it
[6:05] <Aethaeryn> Cool
[6:05] <JairunCaloth> and wasn't doing too well getting a cross compile environment running
[6:05] <JairunCaloth> wanted to build the x-msm driver
[6:05] <Aethaeryn> I totally intended to try to get Debian running on my Nexus One... I just didn't see the point once I realized the realities of a tiny screen with a soft keyboard.
[6:06] <Aethaeryn> A modern multi-core phone with a bluetooth keyboard and hdmi out might make more sense.
[6:06] <Aethaeryn> I'd miss the trackball though.
[6:06] <JairunCaloth> I mostly did it just to see if I could
[6:06] <Henchman21> need all the drivers for everything like the gsm modem
[6:06] <JairunCaloth> I was able to send an SMS with it using ofono
[6:07] <JairunCaloth> and the G1 driver
[6:07] <Henchman21> freesmartphone
[6:07] <JairunCaloth> I didn't put much effort into it after I had it up and running since it was mostly pointless
[6:07] <DaQatz> <Henchman21> and if qemu is slow for you then you didnt use kqemu and/or your host sucks <-- It's a fairly speedy quad with 8 gigs ram, Kqemu is only for virtualization not emulation
[6:08] <DaQatz> Henchman21, and emulation as always slow.
[6:08] <JairunCaloth> Aethaeryn: yeah, I really miss the trackball too.
[6:08] <DaQatz> Takes a very beefy system to emulate a 700mhz arm
[6:08] <Aethaeryn> I never "upgraded"
[6:09] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:09] <Aethaeryn> I don't really have the more than $600 to spend on an unlocked new Nexus that will just be obsolete in less than 9 months.
[6:09] * jmissao (~jmissao@unaffiliated/sundial) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:10] <JairunCaloth> I haven't had to buy one since the G1
[6:10] <Aethaeryn> I refuse, out of principle, to buy the whole "save hundreds of dollars up front, pay way more over the length of a locked-in 2 year contract" trap the US carriers try to push
[6:11] <Ben64> you have to pay a monthly bill anyway, might as well get a cheap phone out of it
[6:11] <Aethaeryn> No.
[6:11] <Ben64> Yes.
[6:11] <GabrialDestruir> I've got to agree....
[6:11] <DaQatz> I refuse to do cell contracts as well.
[6:11] <GabrialDestruir> The contracts are ridiculous
[6:11] <DaQatz> They are absurd
[6:12] <Ben64> they are sure crazy... get locked in at a low rate, and get hundreds of dollars off phones
[6:12] <Aethaeryn> (1) Hard to root. (2) Justifies a corrupt system. (3) Limited options (you can't even get the latest Nexus out of Verizon atm on contract). (4) I'm on AT&T because my family is on AT&T and they are the worst carrier ever in terms of screwing you over.
[6:12] <GabrialDestruir> I'm trapped in one and basically if I change ANYTHING on my smartphone? The prices go up.
[6:12] <DaQatz> Ben64, if you commit to spending thousands for a few years
[6:12] <Ben64> but you have to pay a cell bill anyway :|
[6:12] <DaQatz> No i don't
[6:12] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: Save $400 now, pay $800+ (will go up anyway, so don't bother estimating) over 2 years, and not be able to upgrade within those 2 years without a penalty even though phones are obsolete in less than a year.
[6:13] <Ben64> you do if you want to call people
[6:13] <Ben64> Aethaeryn: but you have to pay a bill anyway!
[6:13] <Henchman21> my provider wouldnt give me a wifi android smartphone without a data plan :P
[6:13] <GabrialDestruir> Oh no, with ATT you can upgrade yearly
[6:13] <Ben64> same damn bill, just 2 years
[6:13] <DaQatz> I barely use a lan line enough to excuse $20 a month for it
[6:13] <Aethaeryn> If people all used unlocked phones, they'd be able to leave carriers (i.e. AT&T) that try to bully and force you into unfair conditions after you sign your contract.
[6:13] <GabrialDestruir> if you pay 120 dollars a month
[6:13] <DaQatz> Cell = 80+ a month fro a contract MIN here
[6:13] <GabrialDestruir> and to get any sort of "discounted phone" it's an additional 2 years
[6:14] <Ben64> Aethaeryn: and go where?
[6:14] * unkle_george_ (~quassel@static-50-53-154-51.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:14] <DaQatz> I can get a pay as you go if I need a cell for 10 cents a minute
[6:14] <DaQatz> Note I do nto have a cell phone at the moment
[6:14] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: If everyone got the no contract phone, they'd be far better off, but because most people get the contract phone, it's in your best interests to get the contract phone. However, this justifies and perpetuates the system.
[6:14] <GabrialDestruir> The problem though Aethaeryn, not everyone can afford to buy a phone straight out
[6:14] <Aethaeryn> It's actually a good case of a market failure.
[6:14] <Ben64> choices in the US - vzw, att, sprint, tmobile
[6:15] <Ben64> they all have almost the exact same plans
[6:15] <GabrialDestruir> MetroPCS
[6:15] <Ben64> i said sprint already
[6:15] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: Choices on a 2 year contract: your original carrier, your original carrier, your original carrier, and your original carrier
[6:15] <Aethaeryn> With such a lock in, they *know* they can screw you over.
[6:15] <Aethaeryn> So they do.
[6:15] <Aethaeryn> Repeatedly.
[6:15] <Ben64> Aethaeryn: except i'm locked into the rate i had 5 years ago
[6:15] <DaQatz> And they all make you sign multi year contracts at absurd rates.
[6:15] <Ben64> winner = me
[6:15] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: what carrier?
[6:15] <Ben64> vzwe
[6:15] <Aethaeryn> Sprint?
[6:15] <Ben64> -e
[6:15] <Aethaeryn> Verizon?
[6:15] <JairunCaloth> I haven't had a contract in years, it's quite nice
[6:15] <Aethaeryn> hmm
[6:16] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: So is Verizon said tomorrow that you need to pay $200 a month, what would you do?
[6:16] <Ben64> i get new phones every year, unlimited text, data and voice
[6:16] <Ben64> Aethaeryn: they couldn't
[6:16] <Aethaeryn> Why not?
[6:16] <Ben64> look up the definition of a contract
[6:16] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: Are you a lawyer?
[6:16] <Aethaeryn> AT&T's "unlimited" isn't unlimited anymore.
[6:16] <Ben64> implying only lawyers can read
[6:16] <Aethaeryn> Companies with lots of money can... you know, find loopholes.
[6:17] <Aethaeryn> And have monetary incentive to do so.
[6:17] <Aethaeryn> Like making unlimited suddenly worse than a limited plan, thus trying to force people out of unlimited.
[6:17] * unkle_george_ (~quassel@static-50-53-154-51.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:17] <GabrialDestruir> AT&Ts "unlimited" is only like 2GB
[6:17] <Ben64> because i have the contract, i have unlimited data until i change it
[6:17] <DaQatz> Ben64, implying lawyers wrote it so it could be changed by the company when they please.
[6:17] <GabrialDestruir> then they start throttling you
[6:17] <DaQatz> But not by you.
[6:17] <Aethaeryn> GabrialDestruir: Thanks to lawyers finding a loophole :-P
[6:17] <Ben64> GabrialDestruir: that got shut down in the courts
[6:17] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: Nope.
[6:17] <Ben64> yep
[6:17] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: You can't class-action sue AT&T. It's in their contract.
[6:17] <Aethaeryn> Someone won in small claims court.
[6:18] <Ben64> who said class action
[6:18] <Aethaeryn> One person.
[6:18] <Aethaeryn> So yes, you could, if you wanted to, represent yourself in court, and do lots of work.
[6:18] <Ben64> theres already the precedent
[6:18] <Ben64> and i don't even use att
[6:18] <Aethaeryn> It's still work.
[6:18] <DaQatz> Small claims does not constitute precedent
[6:18] <Aethaeryn> Time is money
[6:18] <Ben64> i use unlimited vzw
[6:18] <Ben64> winner = still me
[6:18] <GabrialDestruir> Companies can throttle their "grandfathered" Unlimited plans and claim it's for the better of the network.
[6:18] * svkhaksvh (~Sodium@31.200.160.73) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:19] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: The only party that benefits from an uneven contract is the party who wrote the contract with a well-paid team of lawyers.
[6:19] <Ben64> your solution is worse
[6:19] <Ben64> have no contract, and get screwed all the time
[6:19] <Aethaeryn> And it is an uneven contract when (1) choices are limited so you're basically forced into it and (2) it's assymettrical between Joe the Consumer and AT&T's corporate lawyers
[6:19] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: No.
[6:19] <Ben64> Yes.
[6:20] <DaQatz> I bet I pay a lot less for service then you.
[6:20] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:20] <Ben64> you don't have service
[6:20] <Aethaeryn> If the mobile phones had (by law) compatible networks/phones, and had (by law) unlocked phones, if AT&T screwed you over, you could go to T-Mobile or something.
[6:20] <DaQatz> Most I have ever payed for cell was $60, in one year
[6:20] <DaQatz> On pay as go
[6:20] <Aethaeryn> Just like if Comcast suddenly doubles your rates and throttles your connections, you probably can switch to FiOS in your region.
[6:20] <Aethaeryn> Without having to buy a new pricey computer.
[6:21] <Ben64> DaQatz: thats like comparing raspberry pi to a core i5
[6:21] <Aethaeryn> Just the *entry* of FiOS into my neighborhood led to a gradual (over a year or so as to not raise suspicions) *doubling* of connection speed on my Comcast.
[6:21] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:21] <Aethaeryn> You don't even *need* to switch. You just need the ability to switch to competition and suddenly the service provider treats you differently.
[6:21] <mkopack> Aethaeryn: Sure, if there IS FIOS in your region
[6:21] <DaQatz> Ben64, what you just did was non-sequitur
[6:21] <DaQatz> We are talking cell service.
[6:22] <Ben64> right
[6:22] <DaQatz> A phone call is a phone call over cell.
[6:22] <Ben64> but you don't use a cell phone for what i use it for
[6:22] <Ben64> and not nearly as much as i do
[6:22] <JairunCaloth> Man I wish I could get FIOS
[6:22] <Aethaeryn> Dumb pipes for data benefit everyone except the stockholders of the data pipes. You get more competition/choices, better service/quality, lower prices, etc.
[6:22] <Aethaeryn> It's magic what happens when companies are forced to *compete*.
[6:22] <a5m0> my roadrunner cable keeps getting more expensive, i started at $45/m and now i'm at $57/m
[6:22] <Aethaeryn> Lockin of any sort disrupts this.
[6:22] <GabrialDestruir> Have no contract and you can leave to any company you want as soon as they try to screw you over.
[6:23] <Aethaeryn> It's a very, very simple principle.
[6:23] <mkopack> Yeah, I'm giving sprint the middle finger for my 4G hotspot service as soon as the contract ends in June???
[6:23] <DaQatz> It's actually funny to see how people who move into the States re-act to our cell phone situation.
[6:23] <Ben64> have a good contract and you don't get screwed over
[6:23] <Aethaeryn> (1) Companies in this day and age are only out for profit. (2) They will do what is in *their* financial interest, not yours. (3) It is only in their financial interest to have low rates and high quality if there is a choice you could leave to *tomorrow* without any inconvenience.
[6:23] <DaQatz> I often hear terms like "ridiculous"
[6:23] <mkopack> I love how the contract *I* signed said Unlimited data over 4G, 5GB/Month over 3G??? I ONLY use it on 4g...
[6:24] <mkopack> In october they CHANGE it to 5GB combined total...
[6:24] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: Donald Trump might be able to negotiate a good contract. Average Joe Consumer, no.
[6:24] <mkopack> Yet I'm still stuck locked into that contract...
[6:24] <GabrialDestruir> With a contract you can't really do anything unless you want to pay disconnection fees
[6:24] <mkopack> How come they get to change the terms whenever THEY want?
[6:24] <Ben64> mkopack: you got a shitty contract
[6:24] <mkopack> So in June I'm giving them the middle finger and getting an LTE plan??? and telling Sprint they can suck it
[6:25] <Ben64> att or vzw?
[6:25] <Henchman21> both suck
[6:25] <JairunCaloth> none of the US carriers are really worth a damn
[6:25] <mkopack> Haven't decided yet??? depends on what they offer at the time, and what the deal with the next iPhone is. I'll be due for a new one, and if I can use that to tether I might just go with that.
[6:26] <DataSpree> i enjoy my unlimited 4g with verizon so i have no complaints
[6:26] <mkopack> Currently I have the 4G hotspot and use that for data on the iPhone, iPad and laptop
[6:26] <Ben64> i don't think they offer unlimited anymore
[6:26] <GabrialDestruir> MetroPCS is decent... the issue is they don't get all the places the bigger companies do
[6:26] <GabrialDestruir> So smaller towns get left out
[6:27] * Xark_ just pre-ordered at Newark. Stock expected May 12.
[6:27] <Ben64> mkopack: you could just tether with your phone
[6:27] <Aethaeryn> JairunCaloth: They could easily be with a handful of laws.
[6:27] <mkopack> Yeah, that wasn't an option when I got my iPhone 4???
[6:27] <Ben64> well you don't tell them that you're tethering
[6:27] <mkopack> So, we'll see??? I have some time to figure it out
[6:28] <DataSpree> can anyone recommend a cross compiler for armv5 for rpm based distros?
[6:28] <Aethaeryn> (1) Compatible phones. A phone from AT&T should be switchable to Verizon or Sprint or T-Mobile with no negative concequences (e.g. no 3G/4G except on X). (2) No multi-year contracts that penalize you for switching networks.
[6:28] <Aethaeryn> Those two regulations (which will never happen because *they* lobby and the consumers don't) would save everyone lots of trouble.
[6:29] <DaQatz> No remote locking hardware you own...
[6:29] <Ben64> Aethaeryn: att and vzw use different radios for 3g
[6:29] <GabrialDestruir> Yea.
[6:29] <Aethaeryn> Ben64: yes, I know, incompatible technology.
[6:29] <GabrialDestruir> Which is an issue
[6:30] <GabrialDestruir> In that way... ATT can force their customers to stay with them even more.
[6:30] <Aethaeryn> Fortunately, 4G is coming about soon (not yet, the 4G is currently a marketing lie) so... now's the time to legislate and regulate.
[6:30] <Ben64> 4G is real
[6:30] <Aethaeryn> For some definitions of 4G.
[6:30] <GabrialDestruir> Considering 4G is suppose to get some ridiculous speeds like 128Mb/s
[6:30] <Aethaeryn> The definition was too hard to reach, so they literally redefined it so they'd reach it.
[6:31] * cuzzo (~Zilly@173-166-7-93-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[6:31] <Ben64> 2MB/s is good
[6:31] * svkhaksvh (~Sodium@31.200.160.73) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:31] * Zilly_ (~Zilly@173-166-7-93-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:31] <Aethaeryn> GabrialDestruir: The 4G goal was far too remote (even landlines aren't that good yet) and the 4G that they've branded is too weak.
[6:31] <Aethaeryn> The sweat spot is in the middle.
[6:31] <Aethaeryn> *sweet
[6:32] <Xark_> DataSpree: I have had good luck with Linaro stuff. I don't know about RPMS, but here is a recent mini-howto and a link to prebuilt RPMS. http://martinezjavier.blogspot.com/2012/01/using-linaro-toolchain-on-fedora.html
[6:32] <mkopack> I get pretty decent with my Sprint device which is WiMax based, but the LTE stuff my buddy has puts it to shame
[6:32] <mkopack> It's as fast as my home cable modem setup which I typically get 30Mb down, 4 up
[6:32] <Ben64> wimax is lame
[6:32] <mkopack> except the weird thing is LTE gets faster UP than DOWN
[6:33] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:33] * koush_ (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:33] <GabrialDestruir> Supposedly Charter can get 100Mb/s
[6:34] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[6:34] <Byan> huh?
[6:34] <a5m0> i hope the nokia 808 sensor is one of the sensors that raspberry pi sells
[6:34] <Byan> 1gb wouldn't be that hard to reach...
[6:34] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:35] <a5m0> when are forums going to be back up?
[6:35] <DaQatz> http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwey20WiPW1qkwvx4o1_500.jpg
[6:35] <GabrialDestruir> I say supposedly, because a lot of internet companies aren't so great, at least around here, on prividing what they claim they provide.
[6:36] <DataSpree> Xark_: thanks. ill try it
[6:36] <Xark_> a5m0: Perhaps a bit too much fun at the pub (although they deserve a rest). :)
[6:36] <mkopack> oh well, bed time later gang
[6:36] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[6:37] <scorphus> Hello everyone, I'm very excited about Raspberry Pi. It seems that it comes with Debian, am I right?
[6:37] <DaQatz> I does not come with an os
[6:37] <GabrialDestruir> For example, Verizon is suppose to be fixing their congestion issues to start properly providing 7Mb/s down around here.... but according to them it'll take up to 3 months to switch a circuit?
[6:37] <DataSpree> scorphus: yes. at the moment but soon with fedora too
[6:37] <DaQatz> it*
[6:37] <Xark_> DataSpree: I have only used it cross compiling for ARM on Win7 and Ubuntu, but it seems to be a nicely supported ARM toolchain (and Linaro will look into problems you report - I ran into an obscure NEON issue that they were able to resolve).
[6:37] <DataSpree> well downloadable
[6:38] <hotwings> a beer called "Pork Slap" is not a beer im anxious to try
[6:38] <JairunCaloth> debian has an ARM repository, so shouldn't be hard to get debian going on it
[6:38] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:39] <scorphus> DataSpree: thanks =) And, what Debian version does it run, 5.0 (lenny) or 6.0 Squeeze?
[6:39] <Snowl> gday maaaaaaaate
[6:39] <des2> scorphus is comes with no OS
[6:39] <scorphus> des2: oh
[6:39] <hotwings> i want to run debian testing on my rpi.. hopefully that wont be a problem
[6:40] <Snowl> Would there/is there a way to run RPi as a proxy, as it only has one element?
[6:40] <des2> You get to download and install your choice of whatever is available at receipt time
[6:40] <Xark_> scorphus: You download the OS you want and boot it off an SD card (which you supply). So far there is Debian and a special Fedora Remix (which I am not quite sure has been officially released yet).
[6:41] <scorphus> Xark_: that's awesome
[6:41] <scorphus> does it support Debian's armel port?
[6:41] <scorphus> or just the arm post?
[6:41] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:41] <scorphus> s/post/port/
[6:41] <Xark_> scorphus: From what I have read the Fedora is optimized for ARMv6-hardfloat. The videos showing it booting to a desktop in like 15 seconds (looked pretty zippy running "Scratch").
[6:41] * Ademan-remote (~dan@adsl-71-141-252-198.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:41] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:42] <scorphus> 15 seconds is really fast, that's amazing
[6:42] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:42] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:42] * koush_ (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:43] <Xark_> scorphus: Not sure, but apparently Debian 6.0 squeeze "optimized" for raspberry pi (which may mean has the right kernel and blob). I think it is a nearly standard ARM AFAIK (not hardfloat I don't think).
[6:43] * Ademan-remote (~dan@adsl-71-141-252-198.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:43] * srj55 (~Steve@d24-141-169-128.home.cgocable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:45] <scorphus> Xark_: that's be great if it runs squeeze =) let me have a further look on that "optmized" release. Thank you =)
[6:46] <Xark_> scorphus: Here is the video I saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMlOiMXeeP0
[6:46] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:46] <Xark_> scorphus: You can download the ~2GB Debian image now (lots of mirrors torrents etc.)
[6:48] <scorphus> Xark_: right on! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi#Software also mentions about squeeze
[6:48] <Xark_> Scorphus: I think the biggest "slowness" at the moment is X isn't accelerated (although OpenGL ES and Video stuff is). I am sure this will be remedied shortly after release.
[6:49] <Byan> "shortly"
[6:49] <scorphus> Xark_: that's the same video I saw but on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17190334
[6:49] <Byan> feels sort of anticlimactic now.. finally got "released" and now I probably have like.. 3 months to wait
[6:50] * imnichol (~ian@8.24.97.104) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:50] <scorphus> Xark_: it's awesome =) I wish I could order one here from Brazil =/
[6:51] <Xark_> scorphus: Yeah. Not too many vids of the actual unit. I also like David Braben in this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGcILQ4WxEk and this one (with another Pi founder Robert Mullins) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BbufUp_HNs
[6:52] <scorphus> I'm going to download the image and pay with it on qemu just to see if I could do what I plan doing with it =)
[6:52] <Xark_> scorphus: Can't you? I just pre-ordered (estimated back in stock May 12th or so).
[6:52] <scorphus> But they say international orders are not possible at the moment
[6:53] <Xark_> scorphus: There is info on how to configure Qemu to run the image around (normally on the pi forums when they return - but google or wiki probably has info).
[6:54] <Xark_> scorphus: Well I am in US, so it must depend. Now they have international distributors, so double check.
[6:54] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:54] * vyckaa (~vytenis@82.128.187.245) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:54] <Byan> Xark_: you have to pay the $20 fee?
[6:54] <Xark_> scorphus: I have heard some countries still have "issues" but I think it is available most places (for pre-order at least - forget getting one of the original 10K).
[6:55] <scorphus> sure I'll double check, Xark_ =) and thanks for tips on qemu
[6:55] <Xark_> Byan: No, just $35. It is a pre-order, so I assume they will add shipping later.
[6:55] <Byan> where did you order from?
[6:55] <Xark_> Byan: From Newark
[6:55] <scorphus> let me triple check it then
[6:56] * Xark_ has the printed receipt right on his desk $35 expected to ship May 12, 2012
[6:56] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:57] <Xark_> scorphus: Note that Newark is just the US subsidary of Element14 (so start with the links at www.raspberrypi.org)
[6:58] * ilukester (~chatzilla@pool-98-112-16-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:58] * Xark_ notes the links on both vendor sites were not that clear, but now they both have "Rasberry Pi" on their main pages (last I checked(.
[6:58] <scorphus> Xark_: lucky you to have it some days after may 12 uh? =) I'll start from their site
[6:58] * Karmaon (~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[6:59] <Byan> I only see a register for interest page Xark_
[6:59] <Xark_> scorphus: I am looking forward to it, but I knew getting up early and wearing out my F5 key wasn't my gig, so I am happy. :)
[6:59] <Xark_> Byan: Are you in US?
[7:00] * Karmaon (~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:00] <GabrialDestruir> April 16th w00t
[7:01] <Byan> Xark_: yes
[7:02] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:02] <Xark_> Byan: It is confusing. I think I ordered from UK link (so I may pay more shipping). US sites don't know when they get inventory, so don't actually take orders (or somesuch). Here is where I got the link that worked for me: http://www.element14.com/community/thread/16917
[7:02] <Byan> err, how much did you pay?
[7:02] <Byan> you pay VAT?
[7:03] <Xark_> Byan: No, here is the exact link: http://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-pcba/dp/83T1943?Ntt=RASPBRRY-PCBA
[7:03] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:03] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-198-103-249.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:03] <Xark_> Byan: $35 exactly (but it is pre-order, so I will expect to pay shipping from somewhere - probably UK).
[7:04] * Xark_ is not that price sensitive - just shut-up and take my money. :)
[7:04] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[7:04] <Byan> hrmm
[7:04] <Byan> should I order from allied or newark...
[7:04] <GabrialDestruir> allied is supposedly based in the US
[7:04] <GabrialDestruir> which means you might get it sooner
[7:05] <Byan> err
[7:05] <Xark_> Byan: I really like the element14 forums and such, where as the other site seemed way "industrial" to me.
[7:05] <Byan> allied is the same as rs
[7:05] <GabrialDestruir> on the otherhand it's a subsidary or whatever of RS
[7:05] <Byan> it's just like newark
[7:05] <GabrialDestruir> and they screwed everyone over
[7:05] <GabrialDestruir> Yea it's the US branch
[7:05] <Byan> well, newark doesn't say it's not cancelable..
[7:06] <Byan> hrmmmmmmm
[7:06] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.84.247) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:06] * DaMummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:06] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:06] <des2> Allied has it ?
[7:06] <Byan> preorder
[7:06] <Xark_> Byan: Under $50 on a CC, you are pretty safe.
[7:06] * DaMummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:06] <des2> Have a URL ?
[7:06] <Byan> you can just search it on allied des2
[7:07] <Byan> it's not hidden like newarks
[7:07] <des2> ok tx
[7:07] <Byan> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70229569
[7:07] <des2> ty
[7:07] <des2> old picture
[7:07] <Byan> yes, I noticed as well
[7:08] <Byan> I wonder if they are open right now
[7:08] <DaQatz> I like ti how "similar products" is empty
[7:09] <GabrialDestruir> Products similar to Pi?
[7:09] <Byan> almost tempted to buy 3 so I can get in on the free shipping for $100 on newark
[7:09] <GabrialDestruir> There are none!
[7:09] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[7:09] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:09] <Syliss> lol
[7:09] <Xark_> Byan: AFAIK it is still "limit one"
[7:10] <Byan> even for preorders?
[7:10] <GabrialDestruir> Further stock expected to ship May 12, 2012
[7:10] <hotwings> [22:03:48] <Byan> should I order from allied or newark... <-- i ordered from newark.. the rpi ships from zipcode 29341 (SC).. i called newark about it
[7:10] <GabrialDestruir> Minimum Order Quantity: 1 Order Multiple Quantity: 1
[7:10] <Xark_> Byan: That is what I read (I believe on an element14 forum). They hope to remove that restriction when pre-odrers are filled or something.
[7:10] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:10] <hotwings> 2nd day air shipping is costing me $8
[7:10] <des2> Allied even has it on their front page
[7:11] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:11] <Byan> newark give you actual shipping costs?
[7:11] <GabrialDestruir> that's from newark.... where as allied Minimum Quantity: 1 | Multiples Of: 1 with no known shipping date
[7:11] <hotwings> originally they told me how to calculate it but in futher talks my cost should be $8
[7:11] <Byan> I wonder if there is anything else I need from either of them...
[7:11] <hotwings> i get UPS 2nd day air changed at UPS ground rate
[7:11] <Xark_> Byan: No, but it had an extensive list of choices. I left it on the default (standard delivery 2-3 days).
[7:12] <hotwings> thats what i choose as well.. standard delivery 2-3days
[7:12] * Byan ponders.....
[7:12] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-198-103-249.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[7:12] <Byan> so you guys all did newark?
[7:13] * Xark_ nods
[7:13] <DataSpree> i did export.farnell.com
[7:13] <GabrialDestruir> Nope
[7:13] <GabrialDestruir> I want export.farnell.com
[7:13] <GabrialDestruir> went*
[7:13] <hotwings> yup, i did newark/element14 here
[7:13] <Byan> sure sure, but all element14 based
[7:13] <GabrialDestruir> What's your ship date, DataSpree?
[7:13] <Byan> I think I'll go allied then
[7:13] <GabrialDestruir> That's because
[7:14] <GabrialDestruir> we know when farnell/newark/element14 is shipping
[7:14] <GabrialDestruir> no one knows anything about RS
[7:14] <des2> So Allied is the US arm of RS electronics, and Newark is the US arm of Farnell.
[7:14] <DataSpree> estimated delivery date is march 23rd
[7:14] <Byan> sure.. but maybe that means I can get it faster cause no one is using allied
[7:14] <GabrialDestruir> What was your order time? >.<
[7:14] <Byan> who knows either way
[7:14] <DataSpree> 21 days to go
[7:15] <DataSpree> feb 29th
[7:15] <hotwings> im sure plenty of people ordered from allied as well
[7:15] <GabrialDestruir> Right what time though
[7:15] <Xark_> Byan: Go for it. I am curious if you get an estimate better than 5-12-2012
[7:15] <DataSpree> 15:34 CST
[7:15] <hotwings> i ordered this morning and got a 5/11 ship date
[7:15] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[7:15] <Byan> fedex ground or usps priority
[7:16] <Byan> hrmmm
[7:16] <GabrialDestruir> Your Order no: 29/02/2012 08:15.
[7:16] <Byan> thats quite late
[7:16] <Byan> is that EST?
[7:16] * Xark_ wonders if it would be poor form to order one from each distributor (may the best one "win"). :)
[7:16] <GabrialDestruir> No that was GMT
[7:16] <Byan> oh
[7:16] <Byan> sheesh
[7:16] <DataSpree> Xark_: yeah i wondered that too :)
[7:16] <Byan> Xark_: I would if I could cancel the allied one
[7:16] <GabrialDestruir> 2 hours after release
[7:16] <DataSpree> Xark_: i decided for now ill wait until i receive my first one before i order the next 4
[7:17] <Byan> IDK if I want 2
[7:17] <Byan> then again, I am sure I could sell it on ebay for at least $25
[7:17] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[7:17] <Byan> maybe I will try for 2
[7:17] <GabrialDestruir> Where do you live DataSpree?
[7:17] <Xark_> DataSpree: Yeah, I think I can wait. I have plenty to keep me busy until then.
[7:17] <DataSpree> 1 for my robot, 1 to play with, 1 for my tv and 2 to give away is the plan
[7:17] <DataSpree> GabrialDestruir: US
[7:17] <GabrialDestruir> o.O
[7:18] <GabrialDestruir> somethings off with your math then >.<
[7:18] <des2> Let your robot order its own.
[7:18] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[7:18] <DataSpree> GabrialDestruir: how so? that's 5 total
[7:19] <Byan> I think something is off with his math
[7:19] <GabrialDestruir> o.O 15:34CST on Feb 29 would be before they were released?
[7:19] <Snowl> Australia.
[7:19] <Snowl> and/or NZ
[7:20] <DataSpree> they were released at 0000 CST on Wednesday February 29th which is 0600 GMT
[7:20] <GabrialDestruir> Ohs
[7:20] <GabrialDestruir> Right .-.
[7:21] * pdp7 (~pdp7@asciipr0n.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:21] <GabrialDestruir> Sorry, forgot, for us in the US it was the 28th
[7:21] * pdp7 (~pdp7@asciipr0n.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:21] <GabrialDestruir> Which means you ordered AFTER me and are getting it sooner?
[7:21] <DataSpree> night of the 28th, morning of the 29th, yes
[7:21] <GabrialDestruir> >.<
[7:21] <Byan> I feel like it's a waste just odering one thing..
[7:22] * Byan tries to think of something..
[7:22] * Xark_ is going to see how the Pi works as a dedicated video game console (i.e., boot to the game, no X). Supposedly ~Xbox 1 level GPU with 256MB and plenty of storage sounds interesting.
[7:22] <Byan> hrmmmmmm
[7:22] <DataSpree> GabrialDestruir: that is strange then
[7:22] <Byan> did you both order from export though?
[7:22] <GabrialDestruir> Yea
[7:22] <DataSpree> my order code was 2081185, was your order code higher or lower?
[7:22] <GabrialDestruir> 2081185 is the Item number
[7:23] <Xark_> Byan: I think that is the only option currently.
[7:23] <DataSpree> GabrialDestruir: was the price in GBP?
[7:23] <GabrialDestruir> Yup
[7:23] <Byan> Xark_: what is? export?
[7:23] <GabrialDestruir> Part Num. Qty. ordered Product description Mnfr Part # 2081185 1 RASPBRRY-PCBA SBC, RASPBERRY PI, MODEL B 84714100 RASPBRRY-PCBA
[7:23] <GabrialDestruir> er I just just screenshot that .-.
[7:23] <DataSpree> it was under the column order code so i thought that was the order #
[7:24] <DataSpree> i thought 84714100 was the part no...hrm
[7:24] <Xark_> Byan: I think so (but maybe not - it is not that clear honestly).
[7:24] <Byan> you could order from newark for a bit
[7:24] <Byan> with a $20 fee attached
[7:24] <DataSpree> bryan they posted that the $20 fee was a mistake and would be refunded
[7:24] <Byan> ah damn]
[7:25] <Byan> I should've order then
[7:25] <des2> That was a brilliant ploy by Newark to keep their servers from being overloaded.
[7:25] <GabrialDestruir> http://i.imgur.com/6hEmr.png
[7:25] <GabrialDestruir> That's the email I received
[7:25] <Xark_> des2: Hehe. :)
[7:26] <DataSpree> GabrialDestruir: have you received a PDF attached to an email with subject: Your Farnell Order Confirmation. Your reference: ....
[7:27] <GabrialDestruir> 2081185 SBC, RASPBERRY PI, MODEL B 1 1 W/C 16/04/2012
[7:27] <DataSpree> ah i see an order number finally. they call it order reference
[7:27] <DataSpree> it's 16475165
[7:28] <GabrialDestruir> What's your "Your Order no:" Your Order no: 29/02/2012 08:15.
[7:29] <DataSpree> in the confirmation email it says: Farnell Ref no: 16475165. Your Order no: 29/02/2012 15:34.
[7:29] <GabrialDestruir> Gah....
[7:29] <GabrialDestruir> There's something seriously screwed up there -.-
[7:29] <DataSpree> does yours have a reference number?
[7:30] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[7:30] <GabrialDestruir> Farnell Ref no: 16454934.
[7:30] <des2> Did you try pulling up your order on their site ?
[7:30] * Mavy-bnc is now known as Mavy
[7:30] <DataSpree> so yours was 20,231 orders before mine
[7:31] <DataSpree> i wonder how many of those orders were all raspberry pi preorders
[7:31] <DataSpree> vs other farnell parts
[7:31] <GabrialDestruir> Not sure...
[7:31] <GabrialDestruir> but there most definitely is something wrong with their priority of stock
[7:31] * The_Ball (~The_Ball@122.150.108.38) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:32] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:32] * Xark_ read a news story that it was the most interest ever that RS has seen for any product.
[7:32] <DataSpree> these companies probably wont say but i wish they would announce how many orders/pre-orders total they got
[7:33] <des2> I would hope so Xark. Otherwise they would have already upgraded their servers.
[7:33] <Byan> ok..
[7:33] <Byan> ordered from allied
[7:33] <Byan> should I order from newark too?
[7:33] <Byan> hrmmmmmm
[7:33] <Xark_> DataSpree: I have only heard many 10s of thousands.
[7:33] <GabrialDestruir> 100k
[7:34] <des2> There were over 100K people on the mailing list
[7:34] <des2> And it's only a $35 item.
[7:34] <Xark_> des2: Yeah, and assume many more "impulse" buyers.
[7:35] <Byan> need a coin to flip
[7:35] <Byan> hey look a dime.
[7:35] <DataSpree> i was pretty happy to hear they increased the memory of model a to 256mb. that makes it a lot more viable for more purposes IMO
[7:35] <des2> Yes big difference from 128 to 256.
[7:35] <Byan> it also makes it so we don't have model b images and model a images
[7:35] <DataSpree> Byan: I call heads!
[7:35] <Xark_> DataSpree: Totally. Having to "support" 128M users would suck (256 is already tight).
[7:35] <DaQatz> Makes it easy to write stuff for pi too.
[7:35] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:36] <DaQatz> More consistent base
[7:36] <Xark_> DataSpree: Especially with the GPU/CPU.
[7:36] <Xark_> er, CPU/GPU memory split
[7:36] <Byan> DataSpree: ok, what are you calling?
[7:36] <rm> i.e. those are 96 MB users
[7:36] <rm> anyways
[7:36] <Byan> what does heads mean
[7:36] <DataSpree> Byan: heads
[7:36] <Xark_> rm: Exactly
[7:36] <DataSpree> Byan: you said you were going to flip a coin
[7:36] <DataSpree> Byan: heads vs tails
[7:36] <DaQatz> I wonder if someone will bother to reverse engineer the gpu.
[7:36] <rm> I wonder what will happen if I will "Register my interest" with RS every day :)
[7:37] <Byan> to decide whether to make another purchase
[7:37] <Byan> from newark
[7:37] <DataSpree> Byan: someone calls a side, the other person flips it. if the caller was correct they get something, win a bet, etc
[7:37] <rm> DaQatz, bother to *try* <- sure
[7:37] <Byan> I know DataSpree ..
[7:37] <Byan> but if it lands on heads, what happens
[7:37] <DaQatz> rm, I've seen some people who are pretty good at it.
[7:37] <des2> He wins your Raspberry pI ?
[7:38] <Byan> you called it, but never described whether heads means I buy it or not >_>
[7:38] <Byan> oh fuck it I need to sleep
[7:38] <DaQatz> rm, Most chips took them 6 or 7 months to get RE'ed to a usable state
[7:38] <Byan> ok, heads I buy another.
[7:38] <DataSpree> you buy once newarks allows it again
[7:38] <DataSpree> i think at the moment they're just taking interest forms
[7:38] <Byan> I have it in my card right now
[7:38] <Byan> ready to hit submit order
[7:38] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[7:38] <des2> no Newark is allowing orders again
[7:38] <Xark_> DaQatz: No doubt it will be tried. Doesn't sound that fun (with the blob encrypted etc.). I would be happy if the ARM side libs were reversed though (which is probably more doable).
[7:39] <DataSpree> then buy. they have a free shipping voucher only until 3/2
[7:39] <Byan> thats only on $100 orders DataSpree
[7:39] <DaQatz> Xark_, I would be very happy for the arm side libs
[7:39] <DataSpree> Xark_: where did you hear the blob was encrypted?
[7:39] * MadsRC (~mrc@193.169.75.65) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:39] <Byan> wouldn't be surprising.
[7:39] <DaQatz> Xark_, And you're right RE'ing a chip like that GPU is a slow and harsh task.
[7:39] <Xark_> DataSpree: One of the Broadcom admins on the forums. On the "reverse engineer GPU" thread IIRC.
[7:40] <Byan> they already must have stuff to encrypt it on the Roku 2
[7:40] <Xark_> They were talking about looking at using Roku 2 GPU blob.
[7:40] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:40] * droolendug (~droolendu@mx1.mvd.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[7:40] <MadsRC> Morning guys :D
[7:40] <des2> Morning already ?
[7:40] <MadsRC> In some places, i guess ;)
[7:41] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:41] <Xark_> DaQatz: And in any realistic time-frame is unlikely to produce "superior" drivers. I just hope the OpenGL ES is not too buggy (since I don't want to bet on too many Broadcom updates - but you never know).
[7:42] <des2> THis has potention to be a Broadcom showcase product
[7:42] <Snowl> 12.04 is out? what
[7:42] <des2> So they might not want any embarassment
[7:42] <DaQatz> Looked at the cached forum thread
[7:42] <DaQatz> Blob IS encrypted
[7:42] <Xark_> des2: Yes, hence the hesitation. Normally with Broadcom it you would assume you would be SOL on Linux. :)
[7:42] <DaQatz> And roku will NOT work
[7:42] <DaQatz> Specificly mentioned
[7:43] <Byan> lol
[7:43] <DaQatz> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Uz-U4Dxq9swJ:www.raspberrypi.org/forum/features-and-requests/lima-project-to-reverse-engineer-arm-gpus/page-3+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera
[7:43] <Byan> of course the broadcom engineers are going to say it's not working to work DaQatz
[7:43] <Byan> that doesn't mean really anything =p
[7:43] <Xark_> Byan: Yes, but they know we would assume they would say that so... :)
[7:43] <DaQatz> "Yes they are, and they also customised for the particular hardware, so a blob on a Roku won't work correctly on a Raspi." -- JamesH
[7:44] <Xark_> Byan: I would be shocked if it were not encrypted. No doubt various "IP interests" require it I would bet.
[7:44] <GabrialDestruir> I emailed farnell...
[7:44] <GabrialDestruir> hoping to figure out this shipping date thing.
[7:45] * koush_ (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:45] <Xark_> Byan: Plus the GPU boots the ARM, so it would be easy to hide the decryption on the GPU RISC.
[7:45] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:45] <Byan> not disagreeing
[7:46] <Byan> http://support.roku.com/entries/246042-roku-player-open-source-resources
[7:46] <Byan> they do have the kernel there though
[7:46] <Byan> I wonder if that would teach us anything
[7:46] <DaQatz> But "customised" they probably mean a key for each product line.
[7:47] <DataSpree> a lot of the firmware looks like just compiled code to me
[7:47] <DataSpree> run strings against them and see
[7:47] <Xark_> Byan: I guess that is the "beauty" of the Broadcom design, who cares if the kernel is open if it is just tossing messages into a GPU "mailbox" (or whatever).
[7:47] <DataSpree> a lot of this stuff would not show up if the entire thing was purely encrypted blob
[7:47] <Byan> Xark_: yes, but showing where the mailbox is can be helpful
[7:48] <jones> PENIS
[7:48] * jones (~jones@unaffiliated/jones) has left #raspberrypi
[7:49] <Xark_> Byan: Totally. I don't see anything stopping people from reverse engineering the ARM side. I am just hoping they actually recompiled the libs to be ARMv6-hardfloat (although may not be critical as the CPU won't be doing that much heavy lifting or lots of API calls like old OpenGL).
[7:49] <Byan> whats this hardfloat junk I keep hearing about?
[7:49] <DaQatz> Damn it, now I'm tempted to get a pi and roku adn solder to the memory lines and so some dumps...
[7:49] <DataSpree> i thought the arm 1176 was a armv5 architecture?
[7:49] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:49] <Xark_> Byan: I assume you looked at the "edited" SoC datasheet. Some interesting stuff.
[7:50] <DaQatz> Byan, pi has VFP hardfloat
[7:50] <DaQatz> Speeds up floating point clacs
[7:50] <DaQatz> calcs*
[7:50] <Xark_> DataSpree: I am pretty sure it is ARMv6 with VFP.
[7:50] <Byan> I mostly just looked a the GPIO stuff
[7:50] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:50] <Xark_> DataSpree: But no Thumb2
[7:50] <DataSpree> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0301g/DDI0301G_arm1176jzfs_r0p7_trm.pdf is the datasheet for the CPU
[7:50] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:51] <Xark_> Yes, I have read through it.
[7:51] * kain88 (~smuxi@chello213047121188.26.11.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[7:51] <DaQatz> The hard float can speed stuff up a bit
[7:51] <DataSpree> i see armv6 now. that's better than i thought
[7:51] <Xark_> The "real" manual is the latest ARM ARM (however, you have to avoid any opcodes that don't say ARMv6 next to them).
[7:51] * ilukester (~chatzilla@pool-98-112-16-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[7:52] <Xark_> (or ARMv6T2)
[7:52] * Xark_ meant including ignoring the T2 stuff (Thumb2 - which is too bad).
[7:53] <Byan> I thought it was v5, not v6
[7:53] <Byan> hrm
[7:53] * Xark_ suspects unless you were desperate to reduce code size Thumb-mode won't make sense on RasPi
[7:54] * Byan confusing
[7:54] <Xark_> Byan: It is a "reduced" capability ARMv6 (since some bits are optional). However, it has a few "new" opcodes that are not in ARMv5
[7:55] <Byan> so, it won't run stuff compiled for armv6 I take it
[7:55] <Byan> thats probably what the arch linux people were talking about..
[7:56] * Xark_ has been programming ARM assembly for a work project (ARMv7) but I think I am somewhat groking the convoluted ARM instruction set evolution now...
[7:56] <Byan> ok.. time for bed..
[7:56] <Byan> need to be up early
[7:56] <DataSpree> goodnight Byan
[7:56] <Xark_> Byan: Nite
[7:56] <huene> good morning people
[7:57] <Byan> Offtopic: http://news.yahoo.com/frenchman-sues-over-google-views-urination-photo-003931093.html
[7:58] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:59] <GabrialDestruir> If you're pissing outside.... you deserve what you get .-.
[7:59] <Xark_> Byan: Hmm, I thought Arch was considering a Rasp version (it is ubuntu and Linaro that have drawn the line at ARMv7 apparently). However, you may be right about some other detail (I think it may be Thumb 2).
[8:00] <des2> Apparently there's a coupon code you can use on Newark "ZER10" that taked 10% off the PI Price.
[8:00] <GabrialDestruir> WHAT?!?!?
[8:00] <GabrialDestruir> what a rip off .-.
[8:00] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[8:01] <des2> Making it $31.50
[8:01] <Xark_> des2: D'oh! Where were you a few hours ago when I placed my order. However, I can live with my $3.50 "overcharge" I guess. :)
[8:01] <des2> Enter it on the checkout page where it says: If you have a voucher code, enter it here and press APPLY before checkout
[8:01] * Byan has reconsidered ordering another one from newark
[8:02] <des2> Not sure what the original source of the code is. But it just worked when I tried it.
[8:02] <des2> (didn't do final checkout though)
[8:02] <Xark_> des2: Shocking they have a discount for the red-hot RasPi. Right on though, thanks for sharing. :)
[8:04] <des2> Maybe people should use it before they change their mind.
[8:04] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@50.57.81.35) Quit (Excess Flood)
[8:05] <GabrialDestruir> It probably doesn't account to shipping fees....
[8:05] <des2> They never do
[8:05] <MadsRC> Ehm, I might be stupid, but can't you preorder anymore? I can only "register my interest" on the element14 site
[8:05] <GabrialDestruir> so when you get that extra 3.50 on your shipping :p
[8:05] * Xark_ realizes he hasn't received his stickers yet...(ordered 2/8)
[8:06] <Xark_> MadsRC: That is the "decoy" link. Try (for US) http://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-pcba/dp/83T1943?Ntt=RASPBRRY-PCBA
[8:07] <Xark_> MadsRC: However, not positive but you may be shipping from UK (is is not clear, I was charged $35 for pre-order and shipping is still $0 until estimated 5-12 ship).
[8:09] <Byan> just made another order
[8:09] <Byan> $31.50
[8:09] <Byan> woo
[8:09] <Byan> ok
[8:09] <Byan> sleep for real
[8:09] <Byan> bye
[8:09] <Xark_> Byan: Nite :)
[8:11] <Xark_> MadsRC: For EU, try http://ro.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-pcba/sbc-raspberry-pi-model-b/dp/2081185?Ntt=2081185&CMP=i-15d9-00001002 I got the links from this Element14 forum: http://www.element14.com/community/thread/16917
[8:11] <hotwings> US orders placed with newark/element14 are shipped from South Carolina, US
[8:12] <hotwings> that comes directly from newark. i called them about it
[8:12] <Xark_> hotwings: OK, cool. Do you know why their "main link" is a register interest "decoy"?
[8:12] <Byan> weird the order from newark also says $0 shipping..
[8:12] <Byan> thats a crazy deal if thats true
[8:12] <Xark_> Byan: Perhaps they are exactly sure of shipping costs yet (packaging).
[8:12] <Byan> huh?
[8:12] <hotwings> theres no decoy link.. that link is just for people who dont want to order but want to know when it comes in stock
[8:12] <des2> I see the ZER10 coupon listed on several coupon sites but I can't find any more info about it.
[8:13] <Xark_> hotwings: Well, it confused me and caused me to google for a while before I found a "working" Newark link.
[8:13] <ponky> is there any estimate when you can throw orders in RS?
[8:13] <hotwings> you can calculate the shipping using: from zipcode 29341, size of packaging 9 x 6 x 3 inches, 1lbs
[8:14] <des2> RS is apparently waiting until their stock arrives
[8:14] <des2> Beofre they accept orders
[8:14] <des2> They are also apprently gonna let the first 5,000 or so that 'expressed interest' order at that time
[8:14] <Byan> rs still hasnt sold any?
[8:15] <des2> No. They sent Email to all the expressed interest people today
[8:15] <Xark_> des2: I suspect it is a generic coupon that happens to also work with RaspPi orders.
[8:15] * Guest32582 (~phantomci@50.57.81.35) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:15] <GabrialDestruir> Really? Supposedly RS told people that they had to manufacture their stock before they would sell
[8:15] <Byan> weird.. i didnt get an email...
[8:15] <des2> Thank you for joining the Raspberry Pi revolution and registering your interest in Raspberry Pi?s Model B board from RS Components.
[8:15] <des2> We have received extraordinary levels of demand for this product. To help ensure as many people as possible can experience the Raspberry Pi concept, we are limiting boards to one per customer, and we will send you further information on your request in the next seven days. Once we receive the boards into stock, they will be allocated on a first-come first-serve basis, in order of when requests were
[8:15] <des2> received.
[8:16] <des2> Thank you for joining the Raspberry Pi revolution and registering your interest in Raspberry Pi?s Model B board from RS Components.
[8:16] <des2> We have received extraordinary levels of demand for this product. To help ensure as many people as possible can experience the Raspberry Pi concept, we are limiting boards to one per customer, and we will send you further information on your request in the next seven days. Once we receive the boards into stock, they will be allocated on a first-come first-serve basis, in order of when requests were
[8:16] <des2> received.
[8:16] <des2> oopd
[8:16] <Byan> oops?
[8:16] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:16] <Byan> =( where did my email go
[8:16] <Xark_> des2: So I guess thats effectively a preorder (or at least chance to order).
[8:16] <des2> Thank you for your patience; we will be in touch as soon as possible with more details.
[8:17] <des2> Yeah I think so Xark.
[8:17] <des2> Still not 100% clear though.
[8:17] <hotwings> any us people who ordered from rs here?
[8:17] <des2> US version of RS is Allied.
[8:17] <hotwings> yes
[8:18] <Byan> i ordered from allied a bit ago..
[8:18] <hotwings> byan - what was the cost of the unit? did you see a shipping charge?
[8:18] <GabrialDestruir> As far as I know shipping if there is any
[8:18] <des2> Allied adds the shipping at the time of shipment
[8:18] <Xark_> Byan: I got my conformation e-mail very rapidly. I am curious what your new date is? :)
[8:18] <GabrialDestruir> will only be about 7-8 dollars
[8:18] * koush_ (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:19] <Xark_> Byan: ...(as long as you are still up). :)
[8:19] <Byan> no, but there is a chart.. somewhere around $7
[8:19] <hotwings> what is the allied estimated date?
[8:19] <Byan> allied didnt give one
[8:19] <Byan> ill prolly call tomorrow and as
[8:19] <Byan> ask
[8:20] <Byan> you can also request a lead time estimate on their site
[8:20] <GabrialDestruir> Why is it in movies it seems that whenever there's something dramatic going on like a huge fire... there's rain that can't put it out?
[8:23] <des2> Byan the email came from: rsonline@eu.rs-email.com>
[8:23] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[8:24] <Byan> didnt get it.. maybe i fudge fingered my email..
[8:25] <Byan> the only other explanation is my univeristy's spam filter caught it.. but i doubt that
[8:25] <GabrialDestruir> I hate when they change things for a movie, just to save hours of explination.
[8:26] * mwschib (irc@unaffiliated/mwschib) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[8:28] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:29] * Guest32582 (~phantomci@50.57.81.35) Quit (Quit: Clever quit message!)
[8:32] * phantomcircuit_ (~phantomci@50.57.81.35) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:32] * Xark_ notices he just got his "real" confirmation e-mail (the other was order acknowledgment). I put "N/A" as my required company name, now I see I am "Valued Customer-US". :)
[8:32] * srj55 (~Steve@d24-141-169-128.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[8:33] * mwschib (irc@unaffiliated/mwschib) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:33] <mdavey> 22 Raspberry Pi Google alerts since midnight last night. Foundation continues to receive massive press attention.
[8:34] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:34] <Xark_> mdavey: Pretty amazing, Crashing their servers may not have been such a bad PR move (although I assume unintentional). :)
[8:36] * joeka (~joe@dslb-188-104-207-055.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:38] <paul_-> Xark_ confirmation email from which company?
[8:38] <Xark_> Xark: Newark
[8:38] <shirro> So are the Raspberry Pi people back from the pub yet? Haven't heard from them for awhile.
[8:38] <Xark_> shirro: No evidence of them (no tweets and forums closed).
[8:38] <des2> They're hiding.
[8:39] <des2> Until the angry people get some sleep
[8:39] <Xark_> shirro: Must have been an especially good night at the pub. :)
[8:39] <shirro> Pity lots of broken links to the forum out there
[8:40] <Xark_> shirro: Yep. I guess they figure the forums would be slagged (or full of "Where is my Pi!!!!" rants).
[8:40] <ahven> so guess the traffic rush hasn't still stopped, from the looks of raspberrypi.org :)
[8:41] <shirro> Xark_: sad but true
[8:41] * Xark_ hopes they take this opportunity to switch servers (and maybe upgrade the forum software...but that may be hoping for too much).
[8:41] <jojo> the longer they leave it down the more pentup demand when it returns
[8:42] <Xark_> jojo: Well, hopefully it will be back soon.
[8:43] * Winslow (Winslow@c-98-223-104-33.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:44] * drazyl (~drazyl@80.68.55.154) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[8:44] <shirro> Have any Aussies got a ship date yet?
[8:44] <mdavey> Xark_: R.Pi servers didn't crash dispite the reports in the popular press. However, RS and Farnell Element 14 sites struggled with demand and were mosty unavailable in the first three hours after R. Pi launch.
[8:45] * drazyl (~drazyl@60-142.dsl.data.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:45] <Xark_> mdavey: I understand that, their static page is "robust". However, their forums have been having lots of issues with "database failed" etc. (and general slowness).
[8:46] <weasel> they only got themselves to blame. I guess had they provided deeplinks instead of having everybody go through the frontpage and search for stuff they might have fared better
[8:46] <paul_-> shirro ship date form who? IU ordered mine i havnt recieved anything yet
[8:46] <Xark_> mdavey: I am thinking that is not going to be "better" with the new attention.
[8:46] <mdavey> shirro: No, I think they are taking a well-earned break while concentrating on their day jobs. I think there are some IT admin tasks underway also.
[8:46] * Mavy is now known as Mavy-bnc
[8:47] <mdavey> Xark_: Yea, they have a server move planned. Not sure if it is in progress or not.
[8:47] <Xark_> mdavey: Yeah, I heard that. That is why I was thinking now would be a good time (and could explain the static page up for a bit longer).
[8:47] <paul_-> i ordered my lot from element14.com
[8:47] <GabrialDestruir> I know now why I don't remember anything from the Eragon movie....
[8:47] <GabrialDestruir> it's horrible
[8:47] <mdavey> weasel: They asked serveral times to both companies to provide landing page links for each country. The distributors failed to provide.
[8:48] <weasel> mdavey: exactly, it's the distributors' fault they fell over
[8:48] <shirro> paul_-: My element14 order just says "back order". It was completed in the first 12 minutes. Just noticed people getting estimated dates elsewhere
[8:48] <GabrialDestruir> in your email
[8:49] <mdavey> nick mdavey_away
[8:49] * mdavey is now known as mdavey_away
[8:49] <GabrialDestruir> I received an "acknoledgement of order" and it had a pdf attached that gave an estimate
[8:49] <Xark_> mdavey: Yeah, I don't blame the foundation. There was a weak news article from one of the distribs (RS I think) talking about how they were blown away by the "unexpected" demand etc.
[8:49] <GabrialDestruir> Don't be surprised though if you get an April 16th or later date...
[8:49] <GabrialDestruir> apparently farnell isn't doing first come first serve, they're just randomly allocating stock
[8:50] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4db9e07e.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:51] <Xark_> shirro: I placed my order several hours ago and it says 5-12-2012 (Newark)
[8:51] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:52] <GabrialDestruir> I placed mine 2 hours after it went on sale and I've got April 16th... someone else ordered several hours after me and has March 23rd
[8:52] <shirro> It looks like every country does it differently. Which is why I wondered if any Aussies had seen a date yet. Glad I don't have to wait until 5th December :-)
[8:52] <weasel> I'm a bit confused about my order status with farnell. the order itself is in state that roughly translates to 'order number generated', but the individual item is just in 'order received/incoming'
[8:52] <rob_> GabrialDestruir: i ordered at 8:15am and got 12/03
[8:53] <paul_-> shirro which site did you order from?
[8:53] <GabrialDestruir> I ordered at 8:15 and got April 16th
[8:53] <GabrialDestruir> UK or US?
[8:53] <paul_-> I still have no date.
[8:53] <rob_> UK
[8:53] <shirro> paul_-: Australian element14
[8:53] <GabrialDestruir> Well that's why for you.
[8:53] <rob_> oh right
[8:53] <GabrialDestruir> But another US resident ordered several hours after me and has a sooner date
[8:53] * mdavey_away (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[8:53] <paul_-> shirro - ditto. mine says Back Order
[8:54] <des2> Apparently each arre is getting a certain number allocated
[8:54] <des2> area
[8:54] * weasel wonders if that number for austria is different from zero
[8:54] <des2> heh
[8:55] <GabrialDestruir> I emailed them in hopes that they'll give an explination why I'm waiting nearly two months for mine.
[8:55] * Nemykal (~kagamin@210-84-3-23.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: brb e1000e driver update)
[8:55] <weasel> at least you have a date
[8:55] <GabrialDestruir> If you ordered from farnell you should of gotten a PDF with your "acknowledgement"
[8:56] <Snowl> i didnt a pdf from element :(
[8:56] <shirro> I am hoping while everyone else is making up dates the Australian outlet has just sent a courier to pick up a few thousand units
[8:56] <weasel> no pdf from farnell here
[8:56] <GabrialDestruir> Bah, this is so stupid....
[8:57] <GabrialDestruir> it's like farnell can't get their act together.
[8:57] <paul_-> shirro i actually ordered in two different transactions
[8:57] <paul_-> one with 6 Rasppis (before reading they will only send one out)
[8:57] <paul_-> then one with 1 rasppis
[8:57] * Xark_ hopes the distributors call up their factories in China and ask them to add another zero or two to the production run size. :)
[8:57] <paul_-> it appears my 6 order has been ammended and i'm currently being charged 228 bucks for one rpi
[8:58] <weasel> Xark_: and they'll add the zero. at the left, or after the decimal. you pick.
[8:58] * Maroni (~user@178-165-240-220.dyn.orange.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:58] <weasel> paul_-: surely that's worth it? :)
[8:58] <shirro> paul_-: I would have ordered 6. They could put me on a monthly subscription I have so many ideas
[8:59] <Xark_> paul: That will teach you. :)
[8:59] <shirro> The price is a game changer
[8:59] <GabrialDestruir> My understanding was that only the first batch was coming from China
[8:59] <GabrialDestruir> and the rest were being done in house
[8:59] <des2> In house ?
[8:59] <GabrialDestruir> Yea, by farnell and RS
[8:59] <weasel> by the distributors themselves, wherever they produce their stuff
[8:59] * diplo (~diplo@cpc1-trow1-0-0-cust13.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:00] <des2> That would make some sense as they would get a bigger profit doing that
[9:00] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: I am fairly certain they will be contracting Southern China too (but maybe I misunderstood). They have the global distrubution though.
[9:00] <des2> If they manufactured at a facility they owned.
[9:01] <des2> But I was under the imression they were distributors and didn't have manufacturing facilities
[9:01] <Xark_> des2: I believe in the Slashdot video Eben was describing how all the parts are in China and everything is setup for things to "flow" from China but that they needed help with distrubution and to ramp up faster than 10K lots at a time (which was the plan).
[9:02] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-198-103-249.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:02] * Xark_ watch a lot of videos (but I thought one of them was authoritative and pretty clear it was still going to be made in China).
[9:02] * gabriel9 (~quassel@92.241.143.37) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:02] * pitillo (~pitillo@unaffiliated/pitillo) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:03] <GabrialDestruir> We have entered into licensed manufacture partnerships with two British companies, Premier Farnell and RS Components. They???ll be manufacturing and distributing the devices on behalf of the Raspberry Pi Foundation, and handling the distribution of our first batches as they arrive in the country.
[9:03] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-198-103-249.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[9:03] * gabriel9 is now known as gabriel9|work
[9:04] * KeP (peter@nat/u-szeged/x-bbcfuirkcmcdkyez) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[9:04] <Gadget-Mac> So, thats the 5th alternate forum sprung up overnight.
[9:04] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Still not clear that they won't get them made in China (but much larger batches).
[9:04] <Gadget-Mac> Morning all btw.
[9:04] <Henchman21> should i make a forum too?
[9:04] <des2> I wonder if they own the facilities in chana they'll be using or will just be contracting still.
[9:04] <des2> Morning
[9:04] <des2> What's the 5th forum ?
[9:04] <Gadget-Mac> http://raspberrymod.com/
[9:04] <Henchman21> china better make even cheaper versions
[9:05] <Henchman21> for the black market
[9:05] <Henchman21> heh
[9:05] <Xark_> des2: Good question, but I would imagine they contact (doesn't "everybody"). If it made sense to own, I would expect Apple to own a factory.
[9:05] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose, but it implies that they aren't using the china company anymore
[9:05] <GabrialDestruir> and manufacturing is up to those two companies
[9:05] <ahven> Henchman21: they don't have the access to GPU chips, for that low price anyway
[9:05] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-140-201.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:05] <weuxel> Hm... site still static
[9:07] <des2> Yes Xark that makes sense.
[9:07] <shirro> If they had published the pcb layout I could probably buy ripoffs on ebay by now
[9:07] <paul_-> fact
[9:07] <DataSpree> does anyone know if the raspberry pi GPU is an ARC processor?
[9:08] <shirro> does anyone know anything about the GPU? It is secret squirrel stuff
[9:08] <[deXter]> Haha.. Secret Squirrel. Haven't heard that name in a long time.
[9:08] <[deXter]> Hanna Barbera FTW. :)
[9:09] <abaxas> sounds more like a stealth shag
[9:09] <abaxas> going for my secret squirrel
[9:09] <abaxas> or could be masterchef
[9:09] <abaxas> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP44vfBs8E0
[9:09] <[deXter]> Also, shirro, you don't happen to be a fan of OMF2097 by any chance?
[9:09] <DataSpree> I noticed that the firmware files were linked with middleware which is made by a company named Synopsys now. They make a RISC based highly configurable processor core called ARC. News reports over the past few years have said that broadcomm has licensed some ARC processor technology. So I wonder about the GPU.
[9:10] <Xark_> DataSpree: Hmm, good find. I have heard of that ARC somewhere I think...
[9:10] <jojo> VideoCore is a low-power mobile multimedia processor architecture originally developed by Alphamosaic Ltd, now owned by Broadcom
[9:10] <shirro> [deXter]: sadly no. Aussie surnames get the last bit chopped off and replaced by -o. Robbo, Jacko, Shirro
[9:11] <[deXter]> :(
[9:11] <des2> Wacko ?
[9:12] <abaxas> Mulleto?
[9:12] <jzu> Dero?
[9:12] <[deXter]> Mano?
[9:12] <DataSpree> correction, metaware is the linker, not middleware. i wonder if this is the compiler they used http://www.ghs.com/products/arc_development.html
[9:12] <des2> It's gonna be fun watching 100,000 people trying to reverse engineer the thing
[9:12] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-140-201.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[9:13] <shirro> There must be such a mess of cross licensing in these things it is no wonder we are stuck with binary blogs
[9:13] <Xark_> DataSpree: Hmm, very interesting. Apparently related to Jez San ARC (Argonaut Risc Core) as used in StarFox NES...
[9:13] <GabrialDestruir> bah... 100,000 people won't be reverse engineering it. Only like 10k maybe
[9:13] <GabrialDestruir> if that
[9:14] <mjr> I doubt very many at all will bother.
[9:14] <jojo> not worth the effort; the particular gpu will be obsolete in a few years anyway
[9:14] <DataSpree> i loved star fox but I didnt play it until the N64
[9:14] <mjr> what jojo said
[9:15] <Xark_> DataSpree: Me neither. Missed out on NES era (playing or programming games - did both on N64). :)
[9:15] <mjr> the lima reverse engineering effort for the mali seems like the thing to concentrate now if you want a free driver for an embedded gpu
[9:15] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-44-247.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has left #raspberrypi
[9:16] <GabrialDestruir> Last I checked... it's already obsolete..... I mean considering the GPU power is only the equivalent of an original Xbox :p
[9:16] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-44-247.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:16] <abaxas> and?
[9:16] <Xark_> I don't care about reverse engineering the GPU, but it might be nice to have free userland binaries.
[9:16] <shirro> I just hope Broadcom's GLES/OpenVG/OpenMax implementations are fast and reasonably bug free.Because if they aren't there isn't a lot people can do
[9:17] <mjr> Xark_, that'd be a very good start, but doubtfully happening either
[9:17] <Xark_> shirro: That is exactly what I hope. :)
[9:19] <Xark_> mjr: Well, lots of people want to put other OSes on these, so there will be some effort (but maybe they will just use a "shim" or whatnot).
[9:19] <Xark_> mjr: It is not a major concern for me (unless there is some big performance or stability problem).
[9:19] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:20] <mjr> I'll bet there's at least one nontrivial annoyance that'll get ages to solve if ever cause by proprietary software ;) (The problem with class 10 sd cards is a good candidate, is there news on that?)
[9:20] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: I think it is still fairly competitive in the mobil space. Nvidia's tegra doesn't always look so hot compared with some of the "tiled" rendering chips (like VideoCore or PowerVR).
[9:21] <DataSpree> ive been wondering about that as well. the elinux wiki says the broadcom may have problems with some class 10 SD cards
[9:21] <DataSpree> ^bootloader
[9:21] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002129016166.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:21] <Xark_> mjr: I think they released the SoC doc for the SD interface (but I could be mistaken).
[9:22] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose put that way, yea.
[9:22] <Xark_> mjr: I know it had a lot of the non-GPU stuff (like USB and GPIO).
[9:22] <mjr> Xark_, yeah but apparently the problem is in the broadcom sd bootup code
[9:23] * iretch (62f8e9b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.248.233.178) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:23] <mjr> or at least that's the preliminary conclusion that was in the forums
[9:23] <Xark_> mjr: Ahh, right for the initial boot up.
[9:23] <GabrialDestruir> Maybe we'll get lucky and the GPU will get opensourced and save us all the hassle :p
[9:23] <des2> Theiy may not have that option due to licensing
[9:24] <mjr> yes, maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster will appear before us and deliver us the spaghetti code for it ;]
[9:24] * mpthompson (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.131.39.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:24] <Xark_> mjr: I'd put my money on that before Broadcom "getting religion". :)
[9:25] <GabrialDestruir> I'd rather the Bender Code....
[9:25] <GabrialDestruir> it'd be more useful :p
[9:25] <des2> Broadcom may not have that option if they've licensed stuff from other comapnies to make their part
[9:25] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Yeah, but it would be far too easy to weaponize that. :)
[9:26] <GabrialDestruir> Positive thoughts, des2, Positive thoughts.
[9:26] <shirro> I still don't have OpenWRT on my Asus RT-n16. Fuck Broadcom. Give me a Pi and I will forgive them though.
[9:27] <Xark_> shirro: Kind of how I feel. :) If their OpenGL ES and video APIs work, they are forgiven (for now...).
[9:27] <GabrialDestruir> I was hoping farnell would get back to me before I went to bed -.-
[9:27] <DataSpree> des2: I agree. I see many symbols related to HDMI HDCP scheme. I'm sure they had to license that and the crypto keys to go along with it from the HDMI consortium.
[9:27] * Hugo332 (55a027db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.160.39.219) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:27] <Xark_> shirro: Pretty cool to have "standard" video and OpenGL support for Linux.
[9:28] <GabrialDestruir> But I guess I'm not the only "HEY WHATS THE DEAL WITH RASPBERRY PI DATES YO" email they've got.
[9:28] * maugob (~chatzilla@host2-115-static.34-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:28] <Xark_> DataSpree: Supposedly HDCP is not enabled in the Pi (as they didn't pay those folks).
[9:29] <GabrialDestruir> That and considering thousands of other emails about all their other export stuff....
[9:29] <mjr> Xark_, yeah, it's good, at least we'll not be married to their proprietary gpu looking into the future
[9:29] <des2> Well it is good they don't have HDCP
[9:29] <Xark_> des2: Totally.
[9:29] <shirro> There is probably lots of cruft in the drivers. No peer review.
[9:29] <des2> The less devises with that the closer to obscurity.
[9:29] * joeka (~joe@dslb-188-104-207-055.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: bye)
[9:30] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:30] <Xark_> des2: I still curse it every time I have to turn my TV off and on (happens every so often with PS3 etc. - you see that HDCP static).
[9:30] <shirro> It doesn't do HDMI CEC does it?
[9:31] <Xark_> shirro: There was some conflicting info. The last I heard was the chip does it, but they don't think it is enabled in the current "blob" (or there is no API yet). They hope to be able to update that.
[9:31] * maugob (~chatzilla@host2-115-static.34-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
[9:31] <DataSpree> shirro: from what ive heard on the forums the gpu supports it but there is no support for that hardware in linux yet
[9:32] * acperkins (~acperkins@pdpc/supporter/student/acperkins) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:33] <shirro> A future project is to chuck one on a big classroom plasma for the missus and CEC would have been handy.
[9:33] * Algo (~Algo@unaffiliated/algorithmiccontr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[9:34] * EspadaV8 (~EspadaV8@unaffiliated/espadav8) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:34] <Xark_> shirro: I think there are USB based CEC (but a shame if the GPU can already do it).
[9:35] * Xark_ notes it did seem to support a large variety of wacky HDMI modes.
[9:36] <mjr> if you've looked at it, was 1920x1080 the maximum resolution, or could it do x1200?
[9:36] * alyosha_sql (~a@93-103-9-223.static.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:36] <mjr> (I presume x1080 since that's what everyone talks about but the latter would be a nice surprise, seeing as it'll get hooked to that kinda monitor)
[9:37] <Xark_> mjr: The max was 1920x1200 IIRC (good for PC monitors).
[9:37] <des2> Are you calling my 1600x1200 wacky ?
[9:37] <abaxas> no we are calling you square
[9:37] <Xark_> des2: No, I would consider that a standard 4:3 mode. :)
[9:37] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder what the method will be to keep drivers on all the seperate OS will be.
[9:37] <mjr> Xark_, groovy
[9:37] <GabrialDestruir> drivers up to date*
[9:37] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:38] <Xark_> mjr: They mention more than that and they run out of VRAM.
[9:38] <mjr> Xark_, ...and out of HDMI bandwidth
[9:38] * roman3x (~roman3x@bband-dyn33.178-40-206.t-com.sk) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:38] <Xark_> mjr: Yeah, framebuffer bandwidth/size.
[9:38] <mjr> (well, that's presuming it's an old HDMI version, which I'm presuming ;)
[9:38] * FFes (~quassel@office.admea.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:39] <abaxas> wonder if it spports 15/16 bit colour modes?
[9:39] * Xark_ suspects the "framebuffer" device is going to be brutal on the Pi. It will need some anti-flicker loving to get a nice ~60x25 text display (NTSC).
[9:40] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[9:40] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:41] <shirro> Xark_: British computer. What is an NTSC? :-)
[9:41] <GabrialDestruir> I thought I read somewhere that HDMI was 1.3 ?
[9:42] <shirro> I read 1.3
[9:42] <Xark_> shirro: Nearly same thing for PAL but a bit more vertical res and color fidelity (but you pay with worse flicker at 50hz). :)
[9:42] <abaxas> Never the same colour (twice)
[9:42] <drazyl> Never Twice the Save Colour or something
[9:42] * FFes (~quassel@office.admea.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:42] <drazyl> Same
[9:42] <gobby> Never Twice Same Colour! ;)
[9:43] <abaxas> gobby : that's it
[9:43] <GabrialDestruir> or maybe it was 1.3c
[9:43] * FFes (~quassel@office.admea.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:44] <GabrialDestruir> from reading the forums it looks like 1.3a
[9:44] <shirro> Xark_: And all the skin tones are bright red. At least we get to watch movies 4% faster.
[9:44] * Xark_ is very familiar with making sure things are at least "readable" on 720x480 or 720x576 "SDTV" displays (when the game is mostly designed for 720p).
[9:44] <Xark_> shirro: Yep. :)
[9:44] <mjr> fine, fine, fine, 1.3 then :]
[9:44] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[9:45] <Xark_> shirro: I have played my share of Amiga games (etc.) with oddly stretched characters. :)
[9:45] <GabrialDestruir> HDMI, input, CEC, version number: There is no input fuctionality. CEC is supported. The HDMI version is 1.3a.
[9:45] * impost3r (~77yy@cpc1-stav10-0-0-cust101.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit ()
[9:45] <shirro> Is anyone really going to use composite?
[9:45] <GabrialDestruir> Maybe.
[9:45] <mjr> probably some of the intended audience
[9:45] <drazyl> nope
[9:46] <GabrialDestruir> For people who don't have HDMI ready TVs
[9:46] <Xark_> shirro: Not too many people. But I don't mind supporting it for games (no biggie really if you have to support 4:3 for PC monitor people anyways).
[9:46] <shirro> Our government bought everyone a HD tv for the GFC and turned off analogue broadcasting. I don't think there are any SD sets left.
[9:46] <GabrialDestruir> idk who asked this
[9:46] <Xark_> shirro: Also cheap car LCD display use etc.
[9:46] <GabrialDestruir> HDMI & Composite at the same time? No, one or the other not both. No dual displays unless you can find a USB monitor that works with Linux, or buy two R-Pis and install some desktop spanning software.
[9:46] <drazyl> 4:3 is the true screen ratio, all other ratios are false
[9:46] <GabrialDestruir> But there's that nugget of info
[9:47] <mjr> yeah, people with old TVs, especially some of the kids who don't have expensive computers and TVs at home
[9:47] <mjr> (also possibly some of the people who want to use it as a carry-on htpc and go to some cabins or something)
[9:47] <GabrialDestruir> 4:3 is what's true screen ratio? o.O
[9:47] * vyckaa (~vytenis@dyn3-82-128-188-226.psoas.suomi.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:48] <drazyl> *the* true screen ratio
[9:48] <Xark_> drazyl: Well NTSC and PAL both fail the 4:3 test (in terms of pixel aspect ratio at least). :)
[9:48] <GabrialDestruir> That doesn't make sense.... something that's 1600 x 900 does not have a screen ratio of 4:3
[9:48] <mjr> GabrialDestruir, many of the USB screens and/or USB graphics adapters actually do work on linux, since DisplayLink, a major retailer of such chips, makes Linux drivres
[9:48] <mjr> drivers
[9:48] <drazyl> then 1600x900 is not a true resolution
[9:48] <drazyl> simples
[9:49] * techman2 (~gj@121.209.129.135) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:49] <shirro> Xark_: non-square pixels DO NOT exist (hands on ears)
[9:49] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: I think des2 is stating that such monitors are "abominations". :)
[9:49] <GabrialDestruir> How can it be not a true resolution, considering that it's a resolution that exists?
[9:49] <Xark_> shirro: Haha, I agree. There should be laws... :)
[9:49] <mjr> see eg. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA1OTk
[9:50] * Xark_ eyes 1280x1024 monitors suspiciously...
[9:50] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sorry... I like my 16:9 screen a lot better than my 4:3 screen
[9:50] <drazyl> 4:3 is preferable for multi-monitor programming/business use
[9:50] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: I am totally fine with 16:9, but I am not quite happy with 1080 as the max vertical (as seems to be the current trend).
[9:51] <drazyl> Xark_ quitew
[9:51] <des2> I agree 16x9 isn't a great desktop ratio
[9:51] <Mazon> for programming, yyou want width
[9:51] <drazyl> Mazon I have plenty of width, over 2000 pixels of width
[9:51] <FFes> for programming I want height
[9:51] <techman2> Hi all
[9:51] <drazyl> it's height that is missing
[9:52] * Xark_ has two 1920x1200 monitors on dev PC and a 1600x1200 (for the "target" machine),
[9:52] * jloeser_1 (jan@nat/novell/x-ztxjoikynhofyuqx) has left #raspberrypi
[9:52] <drazyl> and as most window managers like to use horizontal areas for menus, status, etc, etc
[9:52] <drazyl> it's height that gets reduced further
[9:52] <shirro> I knew I was missing something using this 13" screen
[9:53] <Mazon> depending on resolution and font size - I am doing 70+ lines of code. if you need more than that, consider breaking your methods up ;)
[9:53] <techman2> my two main monitors are 16:10
[9:53] <techman2> 22" 1680x1050
[9:53] * acperkins wishes he could mount his work monitor vertically
[9:53] <des2> 1050 needs banishment
[9:53] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.84.247) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:54] <shirro> acperkins: mount your desk sideways
[9:54] <Xark_> techman2: It seems like it shouldn't matter, but I really miss the extra bit on 1920x1200 vs 1920x1080.
[9:54] <Mazon> I have 3 screens - 2 x 4:3 and 1 x 16:9 - all my coding is done on the bigger 16:9
[9:54] * acperkins gets a drill and some long bolts
[9:54] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:54] <techman2> Xark_: understandable
[9:54] <Xark_> des2: Acceptable maybe on a laptop. :)
[9:55] <GabrialDestruir> I do my coding on my 4:3
[9:55] <GabrialDestruir> and watch my vids on the 16:9
[9:55] <drazyl> Mazon if you think about your average source file tho it is deeper than it is wide, but your monitor is shaped the other way. Widescreen makes that imbalance worse not better
[9:56] * Xark_ has tried his 1920x1200 monitors vertical, but I think I would get whiplash (like first row in movie theatre looking at the top of the screen).
[9:56] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:56] <shirro> drazyl: But then you have debugger, shell, web pages, irc, twitter... You can only go so high before you get a sore neck looking up.
[9:57] <techman2> any word on the rpi.org site?
[9:57] <GabrialDestruir> rpi.org is dead
[9:57] <techman2> it's still showing the launch page and there's been no word on twitter from them
[9:57] <drazyl> shirro quite, so you want to stack monitors horizontally, but have each individual monitor give you as much depth as it can
[9:57] <GabrialDestruir> Well not really dead
[9:57] <GabrialDestruir> but static
[9:57] <techman2> they said they were going to turn the normal site back on at the end of launch day
[9:57] <techman2> with forum etc.
[9:58] <GabrialDestruir> They're probably still getting too many hits to do that.
[9:58] <Xark_> drazyl: You have a point. If you are coding lines in a (non-huge font) that span a 1920 window you probably are coding way too long of lines for readability. :)
[9:58] <techman2> yeah probably
[9:58] <techman2> and Liz has probably been passed out from exhaustion
[9:59] <Xark_> That said, I gave up trying to fit code lines to 80 columns in the 90s (say 132 to 160 max). :)
[9:59] * intelminer (~intelmine@ppp203-122-213-39.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:59] <GabrialDestruir> If they switched the stie back
[9:59] <GabrialDestruir> It'd crash under the flood of "WHY'S MY DATE THIS?"
[10:00] <des2> Yes I switched to 132 when I got a laser printer with as small font
[10:00] <drazyl> Xark_ it's not so much long lines (most languages you can thankfully split them logically anyway), but I could always use more visible lines it seems :)
[10:00] <Xark_> des2: Yep, me too. :)
[10:00] <drazyl> maybe I'm just difficult like that
[10:01] <Hourd> i just vetical screen
[10:01] <Hourd> *vertical
[10:01] <shirro> GabrialDestruir: When the boards arrive and people don't understand the lack of RTC there will be a second flood of "WHY's MY DATE THIS?"
[10:01] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:02] <Xark_> drazyl: I do understand. I could totally see 2560x1440 next monitor (if they still make them...)
[10:02] <GabrialDestruir> Depending on what I'm coding I tend to do things differently, with VB I tend to just use the format given. With HTML or PHP I tend to put things together on one line....
[10:02] <GabrialDestruir> which can be huge
[10:02] <drazyl> SQL queries tend to be the worse
[10:03] * iretch (62f8e9b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.248.233.178) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[10:03] <shirro> I format the hell out of SQL. It is vertical.
[10:03] * alyosha_sql (~a@93-103-9-223.static.t-2.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:03] <drazyl> shirro agreed, but that way you just get the query and no other code on the screen
[10:03] <shirro> Thats is why editors fold
[10:04] <GabrialDestruir> RTC? >.>
[10:04] <drazyl> we have (not written by me) some queries that are 200 lines long
[10:04] <drazyl> Real Time Clock
[10:04] <GabrialDestruir> lmao xD
[10:04] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: No RTC so RasPi is "stateless" :)
[10:04] <drazyl> thats what ntp is for
[10:04] <Xark_> Groundhog's day every boot...
[10:04] <shirro> "WHY IS IT 1970"
[10:05] <des2> I think time.gov is gonna crash from 100,000 new queries every second
[10:05] <GabrialDestruir> I know what it means, but I just got shirro's joke xD
[10:05] * roman3x (~roman3x@bband-dyn33.178-40-206.t-com.sk) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[10:05] <Xark_> des2: We can just add a Date/Time: prompt on boot. :)
[10:06] <des2> Man it is 1970
[10:06] <GabrialDestruir> Just do ntp.... it'll work better...
[10:06] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Assuming net connection...
[10:06] <drazyl> the model A might need a prompt tho
[10:06] <GabrialDestruir> That or find a way to add a RTC via GPIO >.>
[10:06] <Hourd> people with model A (when they are out) no netowrking and no RTC
[10:07] <shirro> Yeah, NTP will be really handy when your RPI is in a shipping container in the middle of the desert somewhere doing data logging
[10:07] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: No doubt this will be a "hot" aftermarket item. :)
[10:07] <Hourd> might just wire up a gps module to the gpio
[10:07] <GabrialDestruir> If your RPi is in the middle of the desert doing data logging, you've got bigger issues then internet :p
[10:07] * Xark_ remembers writing code to query his 2400 baud modem (which had RTC) to set the time on his Amiga.
[10:08] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:08] <shirro> And you used your disk drive as a coprocessor?
[10:08] * drazyl remembers writing code for an old cp/m 2.2 machine to emulate a RTC and pretend to be cp/m 3.0 so that software would use it
[10:08] <Xark_> shirro: If so, that would have been the C64 (where you could more than double your CPU power). ;-)
[10:09] <GabrialDestruir> That's another something that could maybe be added to my dream case....
[10:09] <GabrialDestruir> some sort of RTC >.>
[10:09] <des2> Now a days 6502 are hiding in appliances
[10:09] <jzu> otoh the RPi has been designed for education, where RTC is not that essential
[10:10] <Xark_> des2: I remember even the Amiga had a 1.5Mhz CPU (faster than the C64) running its keyboard (although I think it was a 6503 or something).
[10:10] <GabrialDestruir> Design and Purpose are two completely things.
[10:10] <drazyl> http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/3066
[10:10] <GabrialDestruir> It was designed to be an easily hackable and codable device, for the PURPOSE of education.
[10:10] <shirro> It probably wouldn't be hard to find a peripheral with a faster processor than the Pi
[10:10] <des2> Add RTC to model C feature requests
[10:10] <Xark_> des2: I love the web sim where they optically scanned a 6502 and then made it "run" in Javascript. :-)
[10:11] <shirro> Surely it will be called the Master?
[10:11] <jzu> I really, really miss some kind of analog input system
[10:11] <drazyl> no, it will be called the Spectrum
[10:11] * drazyl rekindles the home computer wars
[10:11] <des2> Wherever you go you still run into bitter Amiga owners
[10:12] <shirro> As long as it doesn't flicker everytime I press a key. I remember what these British computers a re like.
[10:12] <drazyl> hey, that was a feature
[10:12] <GabrialDestruir> lmao
[10:12] <GabrialDestruir> seriously?
[10:12] <GabrialDestruir> A feature?
[10:12] <Xark_> des2: I'm not bitter, but I avoided PCs until I could run Linux on them. :)
[10:12] <GabrialDestruir> Sounds more like a fatal design flaw xD
[10:13] <shirro> I had a zx80 - no slow mode. The black screen built anticipation.
[10:13] <drazyl> actually, it was down to innovative design to keep the cost down
[10:13] <drazyl> so, yes, you could say it was a feature
[10:13] <GabrialDestruir> Sorry....
[10:13] <GabrialDestruir> the sounds like corporate sales marketing BS
[10:13] <drazyl> no, seriously, go read some history
[10:14] <Xark_> shirro: The Atari 8-bit and C64 benefitted from disabling the display (due to DMA), but nothing like the Sinclair. :)
[10:14] <drazyl> the cpu was responsible for updating the screen to keep costs down, so if you ran the zx81 at full tilt (fast mode) it didnt waste time updating the screen
[10:15] <des2> As long as you didn't own a Sinclair C5 shirro.
[10:15] <Xark_> drazyl: Kind of like the 2600 of text mode. :)
[10:15] <GabrialDestruir> I'm just saying what it sounds like. I'm sure there was a good reason, but calling it a "feature" just reminds me of companies that go like "Oh yea it's suppose to be that way, despite it seeming not to work right"
[10:15] <drazyl> yes, but it was actually part of the design rather than something that got missed
[10:16] <des2> Memory was too expensive for there to be a frame buffer
[10:16] <drazyl> computers were arcane and mysterious and we didn't actually know what they were for back then
[10:16] <GabrialDestruir> btw... you're all either seriously showing your age.... or are way more versed in computer history than I am.
[10:16] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[10:16] <drazyl> one of the 40-something original home computer generation
[10:17] <drazyl> been playing with computers for 30 odd years
[10:17] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Hey, I started young (but with 4K and a 24x24 BW video text display - I was very happy to not just have 7-segment readouts [almost got an ELF]).
[10:17] <drazyl> (most of them very odd years :)
[10:17] <des2> I had an ELF
[10:17] <des2> Built it from the kit
[10:17] * Hourd ha sonly been playing with computers for 15 years
[10:18] <Hourd> and only properly for like 10
[10:18] <GabrialDestruir> Heh.... I feel young... my first computer was a 95 or 98, mind you that was my first computer that was in my room. Before that we had 3.1 at one time for a family computer.... that was back before I got into them so much.
[10:18] <Xark_> des2: Cool. I came really close, but pooled birthday and xmas gifts from every relative and got an Ohio Scientific C1P. :-)
[10:18] <GabrialDestruir> Also long before I ever knew what Linux was
[10:18] <des2> I had a Challenger 1P too
[10:18] <Hourd> my first OS was win 3.1, second was SuSE
[10:19] <des2> It was like an Apple for poor kids
[10:19] <GabrialDestruir> I think the first computer we had was an NEC....
[10:19] <techman2> my first PC was an IBM 286/AT with DOS 5.0
[10:19] <Xark_> des2: Awesome. I soldered joysticks to mind and programmed the crap out of it. :-) 7-segment displays just are the same for "video" game use. :)
[10:19] <GabrialDestruir> My first personal computer that was mine alone, I think was a packard bell
[10:19] <des2> I recall it was $349.
[10:20] <ahven> I had a Robotron for a short while..
[10:20] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) has left #raspberrypi
[10:20] <Xark_> des2: Sounds right. I remember I could add 1K by buying two $20 chips at Radio Shack. :)
[10:20] <shirro> When people are called crazy for suggesting a ram upgrade I am thinking of myself as a teenager doubling my zx80 ram bytsoldering ram chips piggybacked with bent up select lines and eyeing the toaster oven. How hard could it be?
[10:20] <GabrialDestruir> I'm going to bed... you're all too old for me xD
[10:21] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Nite. :)
[10:21] <techman2> shirro: haha, sounds simple enough lol.
[10:21] <Hourd> good ol'toaster
[10:21] <Xark_> techman2: Ahh, the Wolfenstien era. :)
[10:22] <des2> The display for the 1P was a TV that someone had modified to add a video in point.
[10:22] <ahven> now these days held some major upgrades in gaming
[10:22] <techman2> Xark_: I remember spending an entire Sunday playing shareware episode 1.
[10:22] <Xark_> des2: Nice. So did you get more than 24x24 (32x32 without overscan)?
[10:22] <ahven> Descent I was out of this world, Quake I also :)
[10:23] <des2> I think I got 64
[10:23] * AndyJS (~AJ@unaffiliated/andyjs) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:23] <des2> But I don't recall specifically. It might have been 32
[10:23] <Xark_> des2: I was recently reading (found the link reading Rasp Pi stuff) about the UK CompuKit C1P clone and how they "fixed" the video (looked nice with 48x30 or something).
[10:23] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[10:24] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:24] <shirro> Can't remember the details but the address select was only 2 or three nands or something and I am not sure if there weren't some gates unused or I had to solder a 7400 or something on it. Long time ago.Hardware always seemed too time consuming though. I mostly want the Pi for software
[10:25] <Xark_> des2: I guess the OSI-C1P had the very first Microsoft BASIC in ROM (I credit it with making me learn assembly with the nasty "string garbage collection bug"). :-)
[10:25] <des2> Yes basic was built in.
[10:25] <des2> And you stored your programs on your casette recorded.
[10:25] * techman2 remembers playing Snake and Gorillas using Qbasic
[10:26] * zabomber (~zabomber@203-219-247-88.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:26] * N465464 (4e154b70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.21.75.112) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[10:26] <acperkins> techman2: I still have my DOS 5 disks somewhere with those on
[10:26] <des2> Wacky kids with their operating systems
[10:26] * drazyl is sad at how boring computers have got compared to the variety there used to be
[10:26] <des2> We booted right to Basic!
[10:26] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:27] <Xark_> des2: Yep. Pretty weak where you would save "SAVE" and it would redirect all I/O to tape then type "LIST" and when you later did "LOAD" it you would watch it just type in the program (usually with some fun typos to fix).
[10:27] <techman2> drazyl: yes, for sure.
[10:27] * baldand_ (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] <acperkins> I need to get my Acorn A3020 and A4000 down from the loft, half the guys in the office have never seen one or seen RISC OS
[10:28] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:28] <drazyl> I had a 410 somewhere but no idea whats happened to it
[10:28] <Xark_> des2: Yes, the boot speed of the C1P was indeed impressive. As I recall no power on reset too, so garbage on the screen until you hit reset (then D/C/W/M?)
[10:28] <des2> http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp9830.htm
[10:28] <des2> At school they had an HP9830A
[10:29] <des2> But they couldn't afford the $500 for the string variable cartridge
[10:29] * Christian6 (~christian@p57A3D4F8.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:29] <Xark_> acperkins: The Acorn was pretty awesome. I remember being envious (a "real" basic with builtin assembler and 2 Mhz 6502). Alas, too expensive for USA (I do remember seeing them at CES for a bit though).
[10:30] * Mavy-bnc is now known as Mavy
[10:31] <des2> I somehow avoided the Commodore Pet
[10:31] * Winslow (Winslow@c-98-223-104-33.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: ##C you guys rock!)
[10:31] <des2> Maybe caise of the chicklet keyboard
[10:31] <Xark_> acperkins: I am not sure if I every saw a RISC acorn in person (I am confusing it with earlier BBC I think). I was using Amiga when RISC came out.
[10:32] <GabrialDestruir> I hate when an SD card suddenly becomes "unrecognizable" by android -.-
[10:32] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:32] <Xark_> des2: I wore one of those out (literally wore the "keycap" stickers off). The keyboard did suck (for games too).
[10:32] <acperkins> Xark_: I love both of mine :-D just a shame that they're not massively useful now without ethernet etc.
[10:33] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Last time that happend to me, the card had completely fell over (PC wouldn't format it).
[10:33] <acperkins> And Lander was awesome during my lunch breaks at school
[10:33] <Xark_> acperkins: Yeah, I know the feeling (I have a garage full of systems...)
[10:33] <acperkins> Or !Lander I should say
[10:33] <GabrialDestruir> I'm assuming it has something to do with the fact I just used the microsd in my camera
[10:34] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-178-004-235-036.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:35] <RaTTuS|BIG> !w
[10:35] <RaTTuS|BIG> ba! and humbug
[10:35] <RaTTuS|BIG> morning all
[10:36] * Xark_ was wondering if "!w" was a RISC OS app for a moment...
[10:36] <GabrialDestruir> !w hell michigan
[10:36] <RaTTuS|BIG> was to see what the weather is like , and if pibot is back
[10:36] <GabrialDestruir> oh wait
[10:36] <GabrialDestruir> how'd I not notice pi was gone
[10:36] <Xark_> RaTTuS|BIG: Ahh. :)
[10:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> umm has the foundation gone undergroiund now?
[10:37] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if the reason the site isn't back up and there apparently hasn't been any twitter feeds and the Pi bot is gone....
[10:37] <GabrialDestruir> THERE IS NO PI ZOMG
[10:37] <des2> They'r ein hiding until the angry people get sleep
[10:37] <Xark_> acperkins: I was looking into RISC OS as there are some Rasp Pi people who want to see it ported. I can't say the OS features looked that compelling to me at this point. I can see it would be different back in the day.
[10:37] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[10:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> Pibot was one run by the foundation
[10:38] <GabrialDestruir> I was just gonna suggest their internet went out for some reason
[10:38] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[10:38] <drazyl> RiscOS for the Pi mioght be good for the edu market
[10:38] <Xark_> RaTTuS|BIG: Maybe it got shut down with the rest of their "dynamic" site.
[10:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> I know ukscone got email from liz yesterday saying the website was still getting loads of requestion - too uany to put back the forums yet
[10:38] <drazyl> and would be cool to be able to run it just because
[10:38] <Ben64> they took all the money and ran away
[10:38] <Xark_> drazyl: I can see the latter more than the former. :-)
[10:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> pibot went about 20hours ago
[10:38] <GabrialDestruir> Bought a private island
[10:39] <des2> Yeah they're getting tons of requests seeing if the website is back up
[10:39] <GabrialDestruir> drink the Martini's on a beach somewhere
[10:39] <shirro> RiscOs would be like going back to Windows 95 or Mac OS7 or soemthing. I don't think it is even pre-emptive and it is written for obsolete CPUs
[10:39] * drazyl thinks that they might need to tune their database
[10:39] * Xark_ waits for the reddit headline in 3...2....1... :)
[10:39] <Xark_> shirro: Bingo
[10:40] * Xark_ doesn't really want Amiga OS back either in fairness (although glad to have it when DOS was king).
[10:40] * Kostic (~Kostic@net200-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:40] <shirro> I would like to see Haiku and BSD but I could live with just Linux quite easily
[10:41] <GabrialDestruir> What was wrong with Dos? o.O
[10:41] * RaTTuS|BIG goes and does some work
[10:41] <Kostic> I would like to see Plan 9 on it but it won't happen. :/
[10:42] <Kostic> Only thing stopping BSD on Raspi is the binary blob, right?
[10:42] <des2> I would like to see Hurd on it just for a laugh.
[10:42] * alyosha_sql (~a@93-103-9-223.static.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:42] <Kostic> xD
[10:42] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:43] <Xark_> Kostic: Not so much the blob as the userspace libraries (for video and opengl). As far as I am aware with Linux kernel source and [edited] SoC docs available, it is "possible" if people are motivated.
[10:44] <Xark_> Kostic: Nothing will every boot without the blob (and other OSes might need to "look like" Linux when booting).
[10:44] <Xark_> ever*
[10:46] <acperkins> Xark_: should run quick at least within the limited RAM etc., assuming you can still get programs for it!
[10:47] <Xark_> acperkins: True enough that. But nothing really unique about the OS that makes the programs small. I think porting the Basic and other RISC apps to Linux would be awesome.
[10:48] <acp> Xark_/acperkins: fwiw, I wouldn't look at RISC OS as much more than novelty these days. It's a *long* way behind modern OSes.
[10:48] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if anyone will port pfsense
[10:48] * Magog (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:49] * Magog is now known as Magoggles
[10:49] <acperkins> I'm hoping OpenBSD will be ported soon too, that should run well on the spec
[10:49] <Xark_> acp: I tend to agree. I am pretty happy with a light Linux.
[10:49] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:50] <acp> Xark_: I used RISC OS when it was actually still vaguely relevant, and it wasn't overly great back then, either :D It's fun for a bit of nostalgia, but not for serious use any more :)
[10:51] <acperkins> I haven't used it since RISC OS 3.11 so I don't know how much later versions have improved it
[10:51] * Kostic (~Kostic@net200-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[10:52] * Xark_ suspects there will be some kind of "OS bootloader" for Pi written soon to launch other OSes and "boot" from USB HDs etc.
[10:52] <GabrialDestruir> Well normally pfsense only needs 300Mhz and 128.... so it should run fine on Pi.... add in another ethernet port and you've got a lightweight router or firewall
[10:53] <techman2> what's the ETA on everyone's orders?
[10:53] <GabrialDestruir> April 16th
[10:53] <acp> acperkins: Very little, in the grand scheme of things tbh. They were more incremental changes than any wacky new features. The "Shared Source" version is 32bit now, whereas the older versions were 26bit.
[10:53] <acp> techman2: RS will email me within a week :|
[10:53] <Xark_> techman2: Mine placed with US Newark about 5 hours ago is for May 12 (ouch)
[10:53] <techman2> bugger
[10:54] <GabrialDestruir> but I'm contacting them about it...
[10:54] <shirro> techman2: I am yet to see an Australian element14 order with an ETA. Everyone else seems to be April/May
[10:54] <acperkins> techman2: 16th April
[10:54] <GabrialDestruir> because someone else ordered several hours later
[10:54] <Xark_> techman2: It seems to vary greatly by country (more than order time)
[10:54] <GabrialDestruir> and apparently got a March 23rd
[10:54] <techman2> I have one with element14 and it's been showing an stock availability of 38 days for the last couple of days
[10:54] <des2> You say "add in another ethernet port" like you can just solder one on or something
[10:54] <GabrialDestruir> and they were also US
[10:54] <techman2> so the days are ticking over but they are not getting any closer :|
[10:55] <shirro> des2: actually you just plug them into the usb socket
[10:55] <des2> But that would be USB ethernet.
[10:55] <Xark_> des2: Since the existing ethernet is hanging off a USB port, just add another USB ethernet. :-)
[10:55] <GabrialDestruir> USB ethernet adapters exist
[10:55] <des2> Would someone recommend a USB ethernet device they are happy with ?
[10:56] <shirro> des2: Nope, I am going wifi
[10:56] <GabrialDestruir> Like I said.... it'd be a low end router or firewall. lol
[10:56] <techman2> shirro: yeah, clearly these distributors had no idea just how much demand there would be
[10:56] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:56] <Xark_> des2: In my experience USB ethernet is very standardized these days and most work. I have a few 100Mbps Linksys ones (that I have had for years) that work great for wired ethernet.
[10:57] * Popov_ (~Popov@cvl92-4-88-182-127-98.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:57] * heretic_w (~314159265@host81-138-205-228.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:57] <Xark_> des2: (not nearly as tricky as wifi compatibility)
[10:57] * dotted1 (~bfj@9DGW51.bang-olufsen.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:57] <mjr> most do work, though at work where we got a bunch of zenbooks that don't have an internal ethernet interface and came with USB ethernet dongles, the dongles did need an out of tree driver which is a bother. So not everything works out of the box :(
[10:58] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:58] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[10:59] * Reventlov (~Giskard@unaffiliated/reventlov) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:59] <Reventlov> hello.
[11:00] <des2> Hello
[11:04] <Xark_> Does anybody know if the Rasp Pi can output more than two audio channels (like discreet PCM over HDMI not Dolby or DTS encoded)?
[11:04] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.86.153) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:04] <shirro> I still have Tomato on my useless closed Broadcom PoS router instead of OpenWRT. Broadcom might not be my first choice for another router.
[11:05] * Xark_ is sure the GPU can do it, but not sure if it will be "enabled" on the Pi (or what API it might use).
[11:05] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if it'd be possible to to setup PirateBox on a pfSense server
[11:05] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[11:08] <hotwings> Xark_ - i read somewhere that it can do up to 7.1 surround over hdmi... cant remember the link though, maybe it was in the rpi forums.. not sure
[11:09] <nuil> some news form the rpi foundation guys?
[11:09] * baldand_ is now known as baldand
[11:09] <Xark_> hotwings: So that would be 8 channels. Cool. I hope it is exposed.
[11:10] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit ()
[11:10] <Xark_> nuil: We suspect they are sleeping off their big night at the pub (or just catching some rest after the launch). :)
[11:10] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:10] <shirro> The rpi foundation have gone into radio silence. Preparing for imminent world domination I suspect.
[11:10] <des2> They're in hiding until the first RPi ships nul
[11:10] <nuil> des2: shirro: Xark_: :)
[11:11] <nuil> i did not get any mail from rs
[11:11] <techman2> shirro: I suspect they are suffering from a huge hangover. lol
[11:11] <hotwings> if the rpi were only capable of stereo output from 3.5mm, and no hdmi audio then FAILURE
[11:11] <hotwings> espectially when youve somewhat promoted your product as a media center solution
[11:12] <shirro> hotwings: it is an educational computer
[11:12] <des2> If you couldn't do audio over HDMI 90% of the putrchers probably wouldn't want it
[11:12] <drazyl> I thought they were promoting it as an educational tool
[11:12] <mjr> I don't think it's been promoted as a media center
[11:12] <shirro> part of the education is working out what it can't do
[11:12] <drazyl> shirro :)
[11:12] <mjr> some people have been hyping that they'll get it for a media center, but that's kind of different
[11:13] <hotwings> go watch all the youtube videos.. youll come across at least one where this topic is discuss
[11:13] <hotwings> *discussed
[11:13] <des2> I get the impression that the #1 application people are buying it for is 'media center'.
[11:13] <drazyl> hotwings discussed because people keep asking
[11:13] <RaTTuS|BIG> it can do audio over both hdmi and the other bit
[11:13] <drazyl> not because that is what it is for
[11:13] <RaTTuS|BIG> at the same time
[11:13] <des2> Especially since they believe they can run XMBC
[11:13] <hotwings> no drazyl.. it was discussed as a focus point
[11:14] <GabrialDestruir> It's been shown to run XMBC
[11:14] <RaTTuS|BIG> they can run xmbc / open other thing
[11:14] <drazyl> hotwings yes, because people keep asking
[11:14] <nuil> it would be better, not to show the video of xbmc before the launch
[11:14] <hotwings> no drazyl..
[11:14] <Xark_> hotwings: Hmm, I think HDMI audio runs out of bandwidth with 7.1 without Dolby/DTS compression.
[11:14] <GabrialDestruir> My understanding is that it was ported to show of the potential of the device.
[11:15] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:15] <Xark_> hotwings: But perhaps that was just an older spec...
[11:15] <hotwings> Xark_ - why do you think that? people already do 7.1 lpcm over hdmi
[11:16] <GabrialDestruir> It's purpose is as an Educational Tool, but if people can use it for things such as a MediaCenter
[11:16] <hotwings> yes, we all know that running xbmc and highlighting how you can use the device as a media center is so very educational for children
[11:16] <GabrialDestruir> you know they will
[11:16] <Xark_> hotwings: Yes, but I remember I had to upgrade my reciever with Blu-ray discs started because it required a higher spec. However, I suspect RP has that (this was a few years ago when 7.1 was brand new).
[11:16] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-144-131-207-119.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:17] <Xark_> hotwings: This was because the PS3 was decoding the audio (not the reciever) and exceeded the bandwidth slightly (causing audio to drop out at the "good parts" of movies).
[11:17] <hotwings> HDMI 1.1
[11:17] <hotwings> - Provides up to 8 (7.1) channels of lossless uncompressed PCM audio.
[11:17] <hotwings> - Provides all pre-HDMI Dolby and DTS formats (5.1/6.1).
[11:17] <hotwings> - Provides DVD-Audio streaming as PCM.
[11:18] <hotwings> HDMI 1.2
[11:18] <hotwings> - Adds SACD streaming as proprietary DSD format.
[11:18] <hotwings> HDMI 1.3
[11:18] <hotwings> - Adds up to 8 (7.1) channels of post-HDMI Dolby and DTS formats (TrueHD, etc.).
[11:18] <shirro> hotwings: As a developer release yes it is good to have people pushing the thing and porting code for when it goes mainstream into education. When it gets into school it will be handy that people have worked out how to play video on it.
[11:18] <hotwings> so there you have it.. 7.1 lpcm has been supported since hdmi 1.1
[11:18] * parus (~parus@psaux.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:19] <GabrialDestruir> rPi is sporting HDMI 1.3a
[11:19] <GabrialDestruir> so yea
[11:19] <Xark_> hotwings: OK, so it was probably a receiver fail and just didn't test with max spec (Sony receiver too). Thanks.
[11:19] * flibble (~peter@opal.spod.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:19] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao0JmzVhQro
[11:19] <hotwings> shirro - you clearly havent watched the dev videos.. so quit
[11:20] <Tobias|> http://www.news.com.au/technology/that-is-one-ugly-computer-but-its-35-bucks/story-e6frfro0-1226286309105
[11:20] <Tobias|> Ahaha; what? It contains a linux processor
[11:20] <techman2> Tobias|: oh cool!, it processes penguins?
[11:20] <shirro> People pay more for speaker cables than a Raspberry Pi costs. If it does passable XBMC for the kids telly that is great. I probably wouldn't put it on a high end home theatre system.
[11:20] <mjr> some people pay more for speaker cables than a decent car costs ;P
[11:21] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sure XBMC will get optimized to be a lot more than "passable"
[11:21] <hotwings> shirro - ......and why is that?
[11:21] <mjr> hotwings, well, for one, it only does mp4/h264 in HD
[11:21] <hotwings> is 1080p from your bluray player somehow magically better than 1080p from an rpi?
[11:21] <shirro> Because I have an intel powered media center that is many times faster
[11:21] <Tobias|> Your blu-ray player might be able to handle 3D bluray
[11:21] <hotwings> mjr - i hope youre not expecting to get mpeg2 HD
[11:21] <Tobias|> But otherwise it should really be identical for the most parts, hotwings
[11:22] <Xark_> hotwings: Worse, because RP might not have been decompressed. ;-)
[11:22] <mjr> I'm not expecting anything
[11:22] <shirro> And it can handle HD Mpeg2 which is what we get as tv here and I am not sure the Raspberry Pi can
[11:22] <hotwings> Xark_ - your tv doesnt display compressed frames... of course the video out on an rpi is decompressed.. as is all hdmi out
[11:23] <Xark_> shirro: It is not enabled due to licensing concerns AFAIK.
[11:23] <mjr> shirro, the Pi cannot, as I said. (It could, but licensing.)
[11:23] <GabrialDestruir> You realize....
[11:23] <GabrialDestruir> if 90% of 100k sales want a MediaCenter from this thing....
[11:23] <hotwings> considering most hd content is encoded in h264, ......big deal
[11:23] <GabrialDestruir> The chances that the foundation will license mpeg2 go up
[11:23] <Magoggles> I dont think so...
[11:24] <Xark_> hotwings: My point being I can show a non compressed image on RP, but (AFAIK) all Blu-ray discs use compression (but perhaps I am wrong and you can store uncompressed 1080 frames on Blu-ray - picture mode).
[11:24] <drazyl> hotwings I think the point is that unles it's h264 then the r-pi won't handle it and you will not get anything, so as a media centre it has flaws
[11:24] <Magoggles> It's a waste of money for the foundation to license mpeg2
[11:24] <shirro> yep. So raspberry pi is useless for me for half of what I use a media center for without doing some transcoding on a backend. I will get one for the kids to watch out the back but my main media center is staying put
[11:24] <mjr> Indeed. I wouldn't want them to give more money to the mpeg racket anyway.
[11:24] <Magoggles> yeah
[11:24] <flibble> drazyl: it'll fallback to software only rendering for mpeg2/xvid which on am arm11 is not too likely to be full framerate
[11:24] <Magoggles> that too
[11:25] <drazyl> flibble think it'd prefer nothing to jerk-o-vision
[11:25] <hotwings> Xark_ - all bluray streams are compressed.. of course. decompression in any codec happens one frame at a time, into a buffer, which is then sent to the output device
[11:25] <flibble> drazyl: me too :(
[11:26] <hotwings> flibble - whether or not rpi can have mpeg2/xvid decoding depends entirely on the bitrate & resolution of the stream
[11:26] <flibble> hotwings: yes, but so far I've not seen any reports/info of it doing anything other than hardware accelerated h264
[11:26] <Xark_> hotwings: Right. So, I maintain, in theory, image quality from RP could be superior to Blu-ray (assuming it is rendering the video or has some uncompressed source). Basically agreeing RP is a fine video solution (if it supports your codec).
[11:27] <hotwings> video processing works like this.... compressed stream in -> frame decoded (one at a time) into buffer -> post-processing applied (such as deinterlacer) -> buffer sent to output device -> frame displayed
[11:27] <shirro> I think Raspberry Pi will be a great cheap mediacenter for the kids to watch Shaun the Sheep or Yo Gabba Gabba in SD. I think worrying about audiophile level audio details is probably missing the point that the thing is $35.
[11:27] * NAB (~NAB@46.20.237.204) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:27] <GabrialDestruir> This was discussed earlier, and it was pointed out then, there's nothing really stopping them from adding mpeg2 support at any later date.
[11:28] <hotwings> rpi has absolutely nothing to do with image quality..
[11:28] <hotwings> you can completely eliminate _what_ is decoding the frames.. it doesnt matter
[11:28] * mjr hopes they can get theora and webm enabled on the gpu at least
[11:28] <mjr> GabrialDestruir, money money money
[11:28] <mjr> but nothing technical, no
[11:28] <Xark_> hotwings: Thanks, I understand. I am a rendering/games person, so I am not really thinking of video. :)
[11:29] <shirro> It does mp4 though doesn't it? So that covers xvid?
[11:29] * Space_Man (~space_man@87.127.156.98) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:29] <mjr> shirro, yes
[11:29] <GabrialDestruir> They could charge an additional fee for a release of new codecs, like aftermarket
[11:29] <mjr> mp4 and h264 are the licensed proprietary codecs it does in hd
[11:29] <hotwings> mp4 is a container, like avi and mkv... mpeg4 is a type of compression
[11:29] <hotwings> theyre not the same thing
[11:29] <mjr> whatever
[11:30] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[11:31] <des2> Wait til people find out it doesn't do flash...
[11:31] * ryld (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:31] <mjr> heh
[11:31] <Xark_> des2: OMG! What? Nooooooo!!!! :-D
[11:31] <drazyl> i can haz anguree birdzzzzz???
[11:31] <mjr> there is some potential for backlash though if clueless people think they're buying a media center for cheap
[11:31] <hotwings> an "educational" device that can play your pirated movies & music, but is useless for flash... lol
[11:32] <Xark_> drazyl: Yeah, that an win8 are top RP apps. :)
[11:32] <GabrialDestruir> There are non-licensed Codecs such at MPEG2, VC1 etc, but for the moment they will not be accelerated by the GPU.
[11:32] <des2> It helps to start pirates young
[11:32] <GabrialDestruir> Implies that they may or will license in the future
[11:32] <shirro> ok, well xvid is basically just an mpeg4 profile or something innit? So with that and h264 I am mostly covered if I feel the need to swap the kids WD media player out. Lack of mpeg2 codec kills it for the living room.
[11:32] * Xark_ was just reading an informative looking RP news article with a nice infographic proclaiming "runs windows, macintosh and Linux software!". :)
[11:33] <des2> That was THe Daily Fail article
[11:33] <nuil> :D
[11:33] <mjr> GabrialDestruir, you're reading too much into it. It's just not completely ruled out, but the mpeg-2 costs are _very_ prohibitive.
[11:33] <hotwings> so far i havent seen a single dev video highlighting how an rpi is supposed to help/motivate children to learn about hardware and programming
[11:33] <Xark_> des2: Pretty bogus. :)
[11:33] <Magoggles> hotwings: lol
[11:34] <des2> hotwings I kinda feel the same way. It's not like this is 1980
[11:34] <shirro> I have seen videos of it starting up Scratch
[11:34] <Xark_> hotwings: Scratch looked pretty cool with a little car following the red/green track. :)
[11:34] <hotwings> they all highlight nerd interest and media center guys
[11:34] <drazyl> hotwings you understand the edu release is to follow right?
[11:34] <techman2> hotwings: what about the python tutorials liam has been doing?
[11:34] <GabrialDestruir> I'm just saying, if there's a large group wanting MediaCenter user, then there's a higher chance they may figure out a solution to licensing it.
[11:34] <hotwings> you understand the edu release is the same device right?
[11:34] <GabrialDestruir> use*
[11:34] <des2> The edu release is this one with a case ?
[11:35] <Xark_> hotwings: Booted up and was running very quick too (not quite "basic in ROM", but much better than PCs or phones).
[11:35] <drazyl> des2 yes
[11:35] <Magoggles> that group maybe should have thought better?
[11:35] <Vazde> so far i haven't been able to order one for development-use, thanks to to all the media center people..
[11:35] <shirro> It is our job to break it for the sake of the kids. What a noble responsibility.
[11:35] <GabrialDestruir> The edu release is just packed with a bit extra stuff.
[11:35] <Mazon> GabrialDestruir, you??re trying to shoehorn a product into something it was not inteded for
[11:35] <Magoggles> ^
[11:36] <Mazon> just because it CAN run xbmc, does not mean that it is the primary focus - or even focus at all
[11:36] <flibble> GabrialDestruir: can you tell me what extra stuff? If I knew the recommended lang/env I could port a few things and make them available?
[11:36] <GabrialDestruir> In that case, every person who wants to use it for something beyond "coding" and "educational purpose" is trying to shoehorn it into something it's not.
[11:36] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: No doubt a bunch of other manufacturers have "noticed" the RP, so just like netbooks followed OLPC (more or less), I expect you will see more "cheap bare" PCs.
[11:36] <hotwings> Mazon - the devs sure have wasted a lot of time on something (xbmc) that is supposedly not even their focus
[11:37] <drazyl> GabrialDestruir yup
[11:37] <flibble> Xark_: which is a good thing :)
[11:37] <shirro> So far the mother-in-law hasn't gone to Farnell to order an uncased SBC to connect to her telly. I suspect people who do that should have enough of a clue to work out what they are getting into.
[11:37] <Mazon> GabrialDestruir, no, it can be used for a LOT of things - even unintended stuff. But its all within the known limitations
[11:37] <Xark_> flibble: Totally (especially if they are "open" devices - at least from a software POV).
[11:37] <Magoggles> flibble: The main one theyre including in the distros is python
[11:37] <GabrialDestruir> As I've been saying design and purpose are completely different.
[11:37] <drazyl> hotwings have they?
[11:37] <GabrialDestruir> It's designed as an "open", "hackable" device, for the purpose of educational use.
[11:38] <Mazon> GabrialDestruir, you can probably buy an external decoder and hack that on
[11:38] <hotwings> drazyl if you would bother to watch all the videos, you would already know that
[11:38] <drazyl> and when you say "the devs" who are you talking about
[11:38] <des2> Gabrial why do you keep saying "open"
[11:38] <flibble> Magoggles: yeah, I'd twigged that, but is there some libs they've settled on to do the non commandline bits? pygame?
[11:38] <hotwings> drazyl - the people who created it
[11:38] <hotwings> of course
[11:38] <Magoggles> flibble: of that I have no clue :/
[11:38] * Xark_ was just slightly bummed to hear that a C compiler isn't standard (but it was too big).
[11:39] <GabrialDestruir> Isn't it? Sure it's not completely open source, but it's a lot better than what it could be.
[11:39] <shirro> I am wondering if Clang will be fast enough to use on a PI or if I should defect to Go
[11:39] <des2> I don't see the PI as being that open. And I don't think that's their focus.
[11:40] <baldand> shirro: don't know about clang, but gcc is quite slow on Pi
[11:40] <shirro> des2: It definately is not open in the sense OLPC is
[11:40] <kieferz> woah i just got a call from farnell, apparently they have no idea when the pi will be available lol
[11:40] <flibble> Magoggles: :-(
[11:40] <GabrialDestruir> Yes, but it could of been a lot worse, for example it could of been completely proprietary.
[11:40] <shirro> baldand: slow and crap error messages. gcc is out then
[11:40] <des2> Have they started to look for a manufacturer kieferz ?
[11:40] <drazyl> hotwings the videos I have seen have been by people outside the foundation
[11:41] <Xark_> It seems to be about as open as possible (not that open was a primary design goal). 100% open means crap video and opengl (sadly). :)
[11:41] <kieferz> des2: dunno i didn't ask
[11:41] <mjr> yeah the goal of rasp isn't to be maximally open, it's to be _cheap_ and open enough for its primary purpose
[11:41] <drazyl> but to be honest, it makes no difference to the goals of the foundation which were (anda re) clearly stated
[11:42] * Xark_ wonders does TCC support ARM these days (I STR a port was in the works...)
[11:42] <des2> Yeah we are in the workd of good video drivers meaning proprietary
[11:42] * cerberos_ (~cerberos@58.137.9.242) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:42] <drazyl> if the r-pi suits your needs for a media centre, you have benefited from their hard work, but the only target for the pi is does it suit the foundations goals, not yours. mine, or anyone elses
[11:42] <baldand> shirro: for C/C++, cross compiling on a PC is much faster, though of course not so convenient
[11:43] * cerberos_ (~cerberos@58.137.9.242) Quit (Client Quit)
[11:43] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@ppp59-167-121-18.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:43] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:43] <des2> If only there was a way for kids to kearn programming on a PC
[11:43] <drazyl> Xark_ pretty sure C is included
[11:43] <shirro> Or distcc and a couple of hundred dollars worth of PI?
[11:43] <mjr> rather, we're in the world of pretty much _all_ embedded gpu drivers being proprietary, quality doesn't much enter into it
[11:43] <drazyl> Xark_ it it's not it's and apt-get/yum install away
[11:43] <BCMM> baldand: for programming-class type stuff, on-device compilation will be fine
[11:43] <des2> apt-get got my Pogo a C compiler pretty quickly
[11:43] <baldand> BCMM, agree for small programs
[11:44] <flibble> The alpha I used had debian ARM on it, and pretty much every dev tool lib and language available on linux was on tap
[11:44] <Xark_> drazyl: On the Fedora WIKI it mentioned it was 600MB, so you need to install it (it does have a slew of interpreters and such). No big deal.
[11:44] <BCMM> possibly slightly slow if you do C++ and use extensive frameworks
[11:44] <shirro> I am pretty sure I remember hundreds of undergrads simultaneously compiling Pascal on a Vax that was probably slower.
[11:44] <GabrialDestruir> and thousands of people wanting to use it for non-educational purposes doesn't affect the goals of the foundation, if anything it helps over all, because profit made by all those people wanting to use it for non educational uses will go right back into the charity
[11:44] <Xark_> drazyl: But yes, one simple command (assuming enough SD space)
[11:44] <drazyl> Xark_ only tried the debian dist so far (on an emu)
[11:44] <des2> And there's even enough memory for Yum on the PI
[11:45] <drazyl> Xark_ - would anyone bother with less than 4GB?
[11:45] <Xark_> drazyl: Supposedly the Fedora is optimized for ARMv6 hard-float, so it might be significantly faster for some things (anything with floats).
[11:45] <baldand> drazyl: I've been using an alpha R_Pi with the debian distro
[11:45] * cerberos (~cerberos@58.137.9.242) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[11:45] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:45] <Xark_> drazyl: Well, they seem to be targetting 2GB (download time may be the main issue0.
[11:46] <shirro> Will be interesting to see performance numbers of Fedora vs Debian to see if hard float matters
[11:46] <drazyl> Xark_ 2GB as a minimal, it's easy to resize
[11:46] <des2> Uy that remimds me when our PDP-11 didn't have floating point hardware.
[11:46] <Xark_> drazyl: yeah. I don't think I personally own any < 4GB (other than a few humorous 256MB ones that came with cameras etc.).
[11:47] <drazyl> ahhh, floating point co-pros
[11:47] <flibble> ARM processors have traditionally either lacked FP or had pretty rubbish implementations
[11:47] <drazyl> and empty sockets on motherboards
[11:47] <Xark_> flibble: Totally. Linux is crap without an FPU (since apps use floats like candy these days).
[11:48] <hotwings> "The trustees are upset that there are so few 10-year-olds learning how to write even simple programs, that there are not enough teachers with the skills to teach computer science for beginners, and that the days of scamps typing in REPEAT:PRINT "Hello, world! ":UNTIL FALSE on a machine in a computer shop and legging it are long, long gone."
[11:48] <hotwings> lol
[11:48] * yang (yang@freenode/sponsor/cacert.assurer.yang) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[11:48] <des2> The RPi should boot into basic
[11:48] * Xark_ notices the "fancy" BBC Basic. :)
[11:49] <drazyl> yeah, because "Hello world" was what we used to print
[11:49] <flibble> Xark_: I had the same app running on an alpha r-pi (700MHz ARM) and a Nintendo wii (~700Mhz ppc), the Wii was 6-8 times faster (this wasn't a FP heavy app either)
[11:49] <hotwings> most computer classes that teach programming are at the high school level, not junior high and elementary school.. so no, most 10 year olds dont learn to code at school
[11:49] <des2> They want to learn something ? Make them learn how to escape Basic
[11:49] <BCMM> drazyl: almost any messing about and turning it into something other than what it's intended for would come under the "computing renaissance" sorta objective
[11:49] <Hourd> i occasionaly troll apple shops with fullscreen temrinals and something running
[11:49] <Hourd> the looks of confusion are pricless
[11:49] * Xark_ remembers getting banned from his local radio shack for his "messages" (something about by an Apple ][...)
[11:49] <des2> lol
[11:50] <BCMM> Hourd: telnet miku.acm.uiuc.edu
[11:50] <mjr> drazyl, :D
[11:50] <Hourd> BCMM: something along the lines of cat udevrandom
[11:51] <Xark_> flibble: Interesting. No doubt the PPC is the superior chip, but I wonder why such a descrepency.
[11:51] * mjr remembers trying if he could crash win95 in its unveiling thingy
[11:51] <BCMM> Hourd: is that a typo or is macos weirder than i realised?
[11:51] <mjr> naughty me
[11:52] <Xark_> mjr: Like with a well-timed ctrl-break. :) Sounds familiar...
[11:52] <Hourd> BCMM: was just i cant remember offhand what the mac version of it is
[11:53] <BCMM> the whole unix-based thing can be most amusing
[11:53] <BCMM> somebody asked me why their mac was slow, and i was trying to diagnose it
[11:53] <BCMM> "do you have some sort of task manager on this? (he didn't know) ok. how do you open the terminal"?
[11:54] <BCMM> he was somewhat confused when i suddenly stopped being a total noob when i found the terminal and started top...
[11:54] <Hourd> hehe
[11:54] <Hourd> i do that
[11:54] <Hourd> its funny when a non-techy type thinks fixing problems means running a repair wizard
[11:54] <flibble> Xark_: It did seem a rather large difference, I'm not sure of the cache/mem characterists of the two, that might explain it
[11:54] <Xark_> BCMM: MacOS was pretty crap before they switched to the un*x side of the force. :) I remember having to adjust program memory sizes editing icons (like you would partition a disk).
[11:54] <Hourd> then you open a terminal and start the normal debug procedure
[11:55] <shirro> flibble: The Pi doesn't really use its L2 does it?
[11:55] <BCMM> Xark_: i do not understand at all
[11:55] <flibble> shirro: I have no idea :)
[11:55] <shirro> I don't know how big the L1 is.
[11:55] <Xark_> flibble: No L2 cache on RP (apparently the GPU has it, but it increases latency for ARM so is not a clear win).
[11:56] <flibble> interesting
[11:56] <shirro> It is very much a semi decent GPU with a crap CPU attached to load it with shaders
[11:56] <Xark_> flibble: They said for "some use cases" it was faster, but in the general case it was better left to the GPU they decided.
[11:56] * flibble nods
[11:56] <Xark_> shirro: Seems like it. :)
[11:57] <GabrialDestruir> I can't wait for the forums to go back....
[11:57] <techman2> yeah
[11:57] <Xark_> shirro: I do wish it was at least A8 with NEON, but at least it as a FPU. :)
[11:57] <GabrialDestruir> having to search through google cache is annoying xD
[11:57] * zabomber (~zabomber@203-219-247-88.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:57] <techman2> still no sign of life from them
[11:57] <shirro> Has the L1 cache size been published anywhere?
[11:57] <Xark_> shirro: Yes...
[11:58] <flibble> On another channel I know one of the peeps who helped make the chip, he said adding the ARM core on the chip had been a decission taken to allow it to be sold as an main processor, cos it was originally intented to be a coprocessor for a more powerful CPU
[11:58] * [1]des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-38-13.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:58] * KrisW (~kris@cpc7-swin14-2-0-cust99.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:58] <Xark_> shirro: I can't find the link now, but IIRC 32K.
[11:58] <flibble> buthey, and ARM core isn't very many transistors so it fit easily :D
[11:59] <techman2> flibble: eben was on the design team for the GPU also.
[12:00] <Xark_> flibble: Eben was quoted in an interview saying basically the same thing (I think when we was bragging vs iPhone chip).
[12:00] <flibble> techman2: this chap is Adrian Lees
[12:01] <flibble> techman2: I think he did some of the camera interface bits
[12:01] <mjr> flibble, a coprocessor for a more powerful cpu, like the ARM core is for the GPU ;]
[12:01] <flibble> hehe
[12:01] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-44-247.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[12:01] * [1]des2 is now known as des2
[12:01] * sharix (5d67ef02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.103.239.2) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:02] <flibble> Adrian Lees then started a port of RISC OS to the r-pi, the raving nutter
[12:03] <alk__> :D
[12:03] <sharix> Does anyone know when will the old site with forums come back up? Why is the Foundation silent since the launch?
[12:03] <alk__> that's pretty sweet
[12:03] <shirro> I need to read up on OpenGL programming. I think this will be a fun little device.
[12:03] <GabrialDestruir> I'm gonna go read.... and sleep....
[12:04] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:04] <GabrialDestruir> and the foundation has been silent cause they ran off with our money!
[12:04] <Xark_> shirro: OpenGL ES 2.0 (no fixed function stuff - shader time)
[12:04] <GabrialDestruir> and have an island somewhere
[12:04] <GabrialDestruir> drinking mohitos or whatever
[12:04] <GabrialDestruir> Mojito*
[12:04] <sharix> yeah I guess
[12:05] <Xark_> sharix: I think sleeping off their hangover and off to buy an island were the two top guesses. :)
[12:05] <shirro> Yep. All shaders. A subset of OpenGL2. Got it. Would like to play with OpenVG as well I think.
[12:05] <des2> shirro hurry up with that Angry Birds port.
[12:05] <jamesd256> shirro: lookup the nehe tutorials
[12:05] <GabrialDestruir> No wait, they're probably trying to avoid the thousands of angry people who don't understand the launch went badly because of the distributors and it wasn't their fault.
[12:05] <sharix> So noone knows anything official here either. damn
[12:06] <shirro> The foundation got back from clubbing and worked out how many boards they would have to sell to pay the bar bill then left the country.
[12:06] <GabrialDestruir> The site hasn't gone back up because it's still getting hammered beyond their ability to keep the site from crashing.
[12:06] <sharix> Well it was their fault to not properly ensure that the providers will be up to the task.
[12:06] <des2> It's being hammered by people checking to see if the website is back up
[12:06] <GabrialDestruir> How were they suppose to know that the distributors didn't take them seriously?
[12:06] <nuil> des2: +1
[12:06] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:07] <flibble> GabrialDestruir: A simple update of the static page saying "farnell have sold the first batch and are now taking preorder and RS are taking expressions of interest", would go a long way to informing the public and reducing the need to trawl twitter to find things out ...
[12:07] <shirro> Yep, started working through NeHe and found one on a wiki somewhere that was good as well. Not sure what you do after putting triangles on the screen yet.
[12:07] <jamesd256> are you sure it's still down? I'll just check it again.
[12:07] <jamesd256> and again
[12:07] <jamesd256> and again
[12:07] <sharix> GabrialDestruir: can I see a traffic chart for the last week somewhere? Alexa only shows up to the 27th.
[12:07] <Xark_> Hey, all those people too the time to write all those F5 scripts. :)
[12:07] <Xark_> took*
[12:07] <des2> How about editing the static page at least ?
[12:07] <GabrialDestruir> I mean look at RS, they refused to even sell the thing until they knew their was interest.
[12:07] <GabrialDestruir> That alone proves that their distributors didn't take them seriously.
[12:08] <des2> I think more RS wouldn't actually sell any until they actually had them
[12:08] <flibble> GabrialDestruir: so to which of the distributors did the first 10000 go to be sold then? only farnell?
[12:08] <des2> 5,000 to RS 5,000 to Farnell
[12:08] <RaTTuS|BIG> 50/50 we guess
[12:08] <flibble> k
[12:09] <GabrialDestruir> and element 14/farnell/newark whatever is screwing around with delivery dates so it's not even first come first serve
[12:09] * alecthegeek (~alecclews@ppp59-167-121-18.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: alecthegeek)
[12:09] <nuil> RaTTuS|BIG: not maybe 49/49 (and 2% is for the foundation itself?)
[12:09] <RaTTuS|BIG> who knows
[12:09] <sharix> after so many assurings (assurements?) from Liz that there won't be preorders, there were only preorders in the end.
[12:09] <sharix> :D
[12:09] <des2> Let the foundation get in line...
[12:09] <flibble> they need to keep a few to feed the endless hype machine ;)
[12:10] <RaTTuS|BIG> sharix - no - you cannot pre-order from the foudation - but you can from the ditributer it a differnce
[12:10] <sharix> not for the customer there isn't.
[12:10] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes it is
[12:10] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:10] <des2> Well RS hasn't allowed any preorders.
[12:11] <GabrialDestruir> Chances are you'll see an update either later today or tomorrow, they're probably still trying to sort their crap out with the distributors
[12:11] <des2> Although their subsidiary Alled is
[12:12] <sharix> well please explain the difference to me, I don't see it.
[12:12] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[12:12] <GabrialDestruir> I mean considering the bashing they were apparently receiving via twitter, and the fact they've just sold probably 10 times what they were expecting to sell....
[12:12] <drazyl> if I say I won't punch you, and my friend hits you, I haven't broken my word
[12:13] <flibble> sharix: in one case the foundation is responsible for everything, in another they can get people to to say "see they're blameless" and offload the work onto others
[12:13] <GabrialDestruir> I'd say after 6 years they have a right to a few days reccuperation
[12:13] * victhor (~victhor@177.17.6.250) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:13] <GabrialDestruir> They're not blameless, but to lay the blame directly on them is just stupid.
[12:14] <RaTTuS|BIG> you cannot as a charity take money for something you dont have , so they can never issue pre-orders via thier shop - the licensed manufactoring means the distribturs can do do that sort of thing
[12:14] <mdavey> US people: Allied Electronics are now taking pre-orders for Raspberry Pi
[12:14] <des2> ANd so is Newark and there is a 10% off coupon at Newark
[12:14] <GabrialDestruir> The majority of US people have already ordered via newark I think
[12:14] <des2> "ZER10"
[12:14] <flibble> GabrialDestruir: I know, but saying "this could have gone better, here's how to fix it" is different from "you suck, where's my Pi?" :)
[12:15] <GabrialDestruir> I'm laying my blame on farnell and RS .-.
[12:15] <des2> http://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-pcba/dp/83T1943?Ntt=2081185
[12:15] <flibble> GabrialDestruir: given I already knew they had at least 10 times the interest over built units, I had no expectation of getting one :)
[12:15] <sharix> flibble: but in both cases we can preorder the boards now.
[12:15] <mdavey> Aliied electronics are a trading name of Electrocomponents, the parent company of RS.
[12:15] <shirro> The foundation have pulled off something really spectacular. The distributors fucked it up a bit. In a year when we have 20 boards each sitting in our spare parts bin and can't remember a time when we didn't have cheap disposable CPUs to plug into every project we won't care.
[12:15] <GabrialDestruir> RS for their "Oh register intrest" crap, and farnell for the apparently random allocation of products.
[12:15] <des2> Enter: ZER10 in the voucher portion of checkout
[12:16] <flibble> sharix: I haven't yet, cos a) I don't really need one b) I'll wait till it's in stock :D
[12:16] <Xark_> In the end it doesn't really matter to me. I didn't expect to get one of the first 10K, so I am glad they worked out a way to ramp up faster (because at 10 a month or so, forget it).
[12:16] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sorry.... if you have 20 boards lying around, there's something definitely wrong :p
[12:16] <GabrialDestruir> They are reusable you know >.>
[12:16] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:16] <des2> They're not disposable until they're < $5
[12:17] <sharix> flibble: btw, did you use to make a ROM for ZTE blade? I had it for a long time, it was great.
[12:17] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: BambleNet! :-D
[12:17] * JoseLuis (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:17] <Henchman21> linuxpmi for 20boards
[12:17] <GabrialDestruir> I'll be more happy about the Pi situation when farnell explains why someone else in the US with a later purchase time
[12:17] <flibble> sharix: I think that must be a different flibble, I just had to look up what a ZTE Blade was :D
[12:18] <GabrialDestruir> is getting their board two or three weeks before me
[12:18] <GabrialDestruir> -.-
[12:18] <Henchman21> going to argue about speculation?
[12:18] <flibble> Henchman21: only in the abscence of information ;)
[12:19] <sraue> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi
[12:19] <sharix> also I noticed minor changes on the static website through the days since the launch.
[12:19] <des2> Thank you sraue
[12:19] <flibble> sraue: cheers
[12:19] <sharix> but theyapparently refuse to post anything specific.
[12:19] <shirro> au element 14 aren't giving dates. no need to fill space with empty hot air here. You'll get it when its ready mate.
[12:20] <Magoggles> she'll be right mate
[12:20] <GabrialDestruir> Eh... the hell they aren't, I have a ship date.
[12:20] <Henchman21> if i worked there and gave someone a quoted date and they were causing me greif sending me emails and calling... i'd knock their order back a week each time
[12:20] <Henchman21> ;)
[12:20] <flibble> sraue: well in theory I signed up at about 6:03 on RS, so that means I'm about 2 millionth in the queue ;)
[12:21] <RaTTuS|BIG> David Braben ??? @DavidBraben Reply Retweet Favorite ?? Open
[12:21] <RaTTuS|BIG> :-) RT @guardian: We have a #raspberrypi in the building yfrog.com/mg4m3qmj @corxo testing w/ @element14 - more coming soon...
[12:21] <GabrialDestruir> I went through export.farnell.com not newark, or whereever, and they've given the export people their shipping dates.
[12:21] <sraue> flibble, i hope not, same for me. have tried farnell much later
[12:21] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://yfrog.com/mg4m3qmj
[12:22] <flibble> sraue: I couldn't get on farneel at all on wed morning and went back to bed :)
[12:22] <GabrialDestruir> Stock is now allocated to your order Your order has now been processed by our systems. A pdf document is attached detailing the full order confirmation for your order: Farnell Ref no: 16454934. Your Order no: 29/02/2012 08:15. In the attached document you will find detailed information about your order including product details, availability, prices and estimated delivery date.
[12:22] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[12:22] <sharix> GabrialDestruir: I ordered from Farnell, where can I see my shipping date?
[12:22] <merlin1991> sraue: do you have a pi? or ordered one?
[12:23] <GabrialDestruir> I got that in my email from them
[12:23] <sraue> flibble, i was succesfull on farnell at 7:15GMT
[12:23] <RaTTuS|BIG> via email - I my message for farnel is 4 mins later from GabrialDestruir
[12:23] <sraue> merlin1991, i have ordered one
[12:23] <GabrialDestruir> 2081185 YES 1 0 1 24.550 24.55 W/C 16/04/2012
[12:23] <Magoggles> my ordering process was just a series of errors :P
[12:23] <flibble> sraue: after 20 mins I got onto www.farneel.com, this gave me a flag to click on uk.farnell.com that was similarly deaded :D
[12:24] <GabrialDestruir> with 16/04/2012 being the ship date.
[12:24] <GabrialDestruir> er well "delivery date"
[12:24] <RaTTuS|BIG> yea WC
[12:24] <flibble> sraue: still not preordered one on farnell, on the offchance that I was early enough on RS :)
[12:24] * crackm (~chatzilla@brln-4db84710.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:24] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi
[12:26] <sharix> GabrialDestruir: OK I went to check my email, it says they will send me the shipping date when they will have the product available.
[12:26] * afief (~quassel@46-116-187-23.bb.netvision.net.il) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:27] <GabrialDestruir> W/C = Week Closing
[12:27] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[12:28] <RaTTuS|BIG> commencing
[12:28] <GabrialDestruir> Ah, yea was just getting to that >.>
[12:28] <Hourd> wishful thinking
[12:28] <GabrialDestruir> Seemd a little off so I goggled
[12:28] <GabrialDestruir> googled even
[12:28] <des2> Well they really can't be sure when the first batch clears customs
[12:28] <Magoggles> 2015
[12:28] <sharix> :,)
[12:29] <des2> They're supicious devices. Every one has a picture of a hand grenade on them
[12:29] <Hourd> lol
[12:29] <Magoggles> "This isn't a raspberry pie... must be some terrorist bomb computer"
[12:30] * baldand_ (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:30] <Xark_> It will be held up looking for the Windows hologram...
[12:30] <Hourd> hurr
[12:30] <Hourd> wouldnt surprise me
[12:30] <nuil> :D
[12:30] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:31] <Hourd> didnt you know? all computer devices are either apple or windows
[12:31] <GabrialDestruir> Bah, it isn't an issue of how long it'll take them to get through customs as it is an issue of what is someone in the same country as me with a later purchase getting theirs first.... that doesn't seem very "First come first serve"
[12:31] <chris_99> ooh anyone received an email from RS then?
[12:31] * zag (526f17c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.111.23.197) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:31] <shirro> The BSA will have them impounded by homeland security for running that pirated leenux thing
[12:31] * datagutt (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:31] * datagutt is now known as Guest70245
[12:31] <sharix> GabrialDestruir I agree
[12:31] * peteyg (~pyg@cs-nx-02.csil.sfu.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:32] <GabrialDestruir> Then again the fact they're prioritizing UK customers before the rest of the world doesn't either.
[12:32] <GabrialDestruir> But meh
[12:32] <Xark_> shirro: Not to mention, illicit "media center" which is a codename for piracy...
[12:32] * Guest70245 (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[12:32] * datagutt_ (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:32] <Hourd> GabrialDestruir: well its a Uk charity
[12:33] <GabrialDestruir> -facedesks- Farnell is NOT a UK charity
[12:33] <zag> If anyone wants somewhere to post while main forums are down see here
[12:33] <zag> http://www.raspberrypiforums.com
[12:33] <Magoggles> hurf
[12:33] <shirro> I just hope they don't send mine to Austria
[12:33] <Hourd> GabrialDestruir: no the foundation is, and surely they would want to prioritise Uk distribution
[12:33] <des2> Rumor is there's someone there who wants one...
[12:34] <Lord_DeathMatch> does anyone know if any of the dist. websites support paypal?
[12:34] <GabrialDestruir> My understanding from their pages was it was First Come First Serve, but honestly that they're priortizing UK customers with later purchases with earlier shipping isn't that big an issue.
[12:34] <Magoggles> nope
[12:35] <zag> no paypal :/
[12:36] <GabrialDestruir> When people in the same country as you start getting priority first though, somethings wrong.
[12:36] <des2> Paypal?! These are real companies.
[12:36] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:36] <RaTTuS|BIG> where it say that
[12:36] <Hourd> GabrialDestruir: well i ordered pretty early and my estimated shipping is like mid april
[12:36] <Hourd> and i am UK
[12:36] <shirro> Considering the US won't give me Netflix, Hulu, half of Amazon's products and doubles the price of iTunes I can live with US people getting a few things a week or so later.
[12:36] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:36] <toxibuny> Good day! :)
[12:37] <zag> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi
[12:37] <nuil> shirro: european get the us films/games/products always later than the us
[12:37] <drazyl> morning
[12:37] <zag> nice to see them being fair
[12:37] <Lord_DeathMatch> zag des2: however, paypal is a popular choice for hackers
[12:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> so are stolen credicards !
[12:38] <drazyl> do people have paypal but not a debit card these days?
[12:38] <shirro> I wonder if they will take stolen bitcoins?
[12:38] <GabrialDestruir> I wouldn't be surprised if it was related to the whole "sold out" issue.
[12:38] <des2> Yes some do.
[12:39] * Reventlov (~Giskard@unaffiliated/reventlov) has left #raspberrypi
[12:39] * Reventlov (~Giskard@unaffiliated/reventlov) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:39] <Magoggles> I didn't have a debit card til my student id came as a debit card :P
[12:40] <sharix> Yeah the paypal thing was also a fuckup for me
[12:40] <drazyl> des2 doesn;t that mean you have paypal linked to your bank account, which I always thought was a crazy idea
[12:40] * jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:40] <sharix> I counted on it and then I was left out until later in the evening when I could finally get to my mastercard.
[12:41] <GabrialDestruir> They allocated stock based on the people trying to mass buy them, then didn't bother to update shipping for anyone when all that "sold out" stock got freed up, so when later customers came in they got allocated that stock and an earlier date .-. Makes sense logically.
[12:42] * wfd (~duck@194.110.251.45) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:42] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:43] <Magoggles> everyone just needs to chill out
[12:43] <GabrialDestruir> o.O
[12:43] <GabrialDestruir> I am chilled out
[12:44] * Reventlov (~Giskard@unaffiliated/reventlov) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[12:44] <Magoggles> well not specifically you, but some have been really crazy about the whole thing
[12:44] <zag> http://www.raspberrypiforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=120 <--check out the "anyone cheesed" thread :)
[12:44] <zag> seems other people felt the same
[12:44] <zag> angry geeks lol
[12:45] <chris_99> heh
[12:45] * Reventlov (~Giskard@unaffiliated/reventlov) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:45] * mariusL (~marius@89.37.9.70) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:48] <Magoggles> time for another dual boot install...
[12:48] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
[12:48] <techman2> when did those forums come about?
[12:50] <RaTTuS|BIG> somnetime in jan ? they are not offical ones
[12:50] <des2> When the angry geeks massed
[12:50] <RaTTuS|BIG> haters gotta hate
[12:51] <RaTTuS|BIG> or shoudl that be hatters
[12:51] <des2> Hell hath no fury like a grrk denied pi
[12:51] <des2> geek even
[12:51] <zag> @techman2 been running them since the start of the year but only goty popular last few days
[12:51] <des2> (or birthday cake in the case of Office Space)
[12:51] * lollipopp (~quassel@p3EE2D8FA.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:51] <shirro> Someone has got to do an Angry Birds ripoff with pies being slung at grumpy people hiding in basements
[12:52] <Hourd> hurr
[12:52] <des2> I heard you were doing the Angry Birds parody for RPI in OpenGL
[12:53] <techman2> zag: ah I see
[12:53] <zag> I didnt like the official forums very much, so setup a new one
[12:53] <techman2> I wonder how long these licensing agreements with RS and Farnell have been in place?
[12:54] <zag> wordpress forum sucks
[12:55] * Magoggles (~androirc@49.180.193.127) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:58] <Tachyon`> hrm, I expected something more from todays xkcd
[12:58] <sharix> shirro: nice one
[12:58] <rely> Tachyon`: I kind of liked it.
[12:59] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:59] <Tachyon`> well, it was number 1024
[12:59] * WASDx (~AINOR@81-229-79-162-no64.business.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:00] * WASDx (~AINOR@81-229-79-162-no64.business.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] <rely> Tachyon`: He usualy won't go out of his way for interesting/round numbers, minus the big big ones.
[13:00] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:00] <rely> like the 1k one.
[13:00] <rely> http://xkcd.com/1000/
[13:00] <rely> Never mind, i'm an idiot.
[13:00] <Tachyon`> yes, I did see that one
[13:01] <rely> I retract all of that .
[13:01] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:02] * dotted1 (~bfj@9DGW51.bang-olufsen.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[13:02] * rely is now known as rely_train
[13:03] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-144-131-207-119.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[13:04] * The_Ball (~The_Ball@122.150.108.38) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:05] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:06] * Maggoggles (~androirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] * Magoggles (~androirc@49.180.193.127) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[13:07] * Maggoggles is now known as Magoggles
[13:08] * cosner (~cosner@host86-147-252-172.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:08] <Magoggles> God damn fedora 17 alpha/corrupt image
[13:09] * Mavy is now known as Mavy-bnc
[13:10] * Popov_ (~Popov@cvl92-4-88-182-127-98.fbx.proxad.net) has left #raspberrypi
[13:12] * baldand_ is now known as baldand
[13:12] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit ()
[13:13] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:15] <zag> is the fedora image relased yet?
[13:15] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:15] <zag> all I found was the wiki page
[13:15] <zag> and details of launch event
[13:16] <Caver> I thought it was going to be fedora 14 to begin with, and updating to v. 17 later on
[13:17] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:18] <zag> yes but no download yet?
[13:18] * dotted1 (~bfj@9DGW51.bang-olufsen.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:18] <RaTTuS|BIG> it dont matter untill the RPis are in peoples hands really
[13:18] * Kushan (Kushykins@s9.rdlbnc.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:19] <gobby> Seems only arch & debian are on the mirrors
[13:19] * RaTTuS|BIG wants the proper RPi forums up
[13:19] <Caver> me too ... keep having to use google's cache to find things
[13:19] <gobby> arch appeared this AM by the looks of things
[13:19] <Magoggles> Yeah no download yet for fedora
[13:19] * alyosha_sql (~a@93-103-9-223.static.t-2.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:20] * Kushykins (Kushykins@109.73.162.121) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:21] <Magoggles> Hate it when you dl a 2 GB image and it's corrupt
[13:21] <Reventlov> torrent ftw.
[13:21] <RaTTuS|BIG> WHS
[13:21] * vyckaa (~vytenis@dyn3-82-128-188-226.psoas.suomi.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:21] <techman2> where is the arch image?
[13:21] <zag> Does anyone know the Sececa Raspberry Pi IRC channel?
[13:22] <drazyl> no, but hum a few bars and we'll all join in
[13:22] * Magoggles (~androirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:22] <RaTTuS|BIG> zag dunno but #fedora will probably be a good start
[13:22] * Magoggles (~androirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:23] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) Quit ()
[13:23] * vyckaa (~vytenis@dyn3-82-128-184-27.psoas.suomi.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:24] <zag> thx Rattus|BIG
[13:24] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[13:24] * afief (~quassel@46-116-187-23.bb.netvision.net.il) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 360 seconds.)
[13:25] * afief (~quassel@46-116-187-23.bb.netvision.net.il) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:26] * RaTTuS|BIG goes to replace a video card
[13:26] * curahack (~michel@sub-190-88-65ip211.rev.onenet.an) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:26] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-178-004-235-036.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[13:26] <Magoggles> Have fun!
[13:26] <DaQatz> !channel
[13:26] <DaQatz> Doh
[13:28] <SpEcTo> .
[13:28] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[13:29] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:29] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning
[13:29] <DaQatz> Morn
[13:29] <DaQatz> Get yer pi yet?
[13:29] <cosner> Morning
[13:29] <ShiftPlusOne> Hasn't everyone?
[13:30] <Magoggles> I already got 10
[13:30] <Magoggles> They're pretty cool
[13:30] <DDave> i made some drop tests
[13:30] <DDave> broke 5.. lul
[13:31] * vyckaa (~vytenis@dyn3-82-128-184-27.psoas.suomi.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[13:31] <Magoggles> Lol
[13:31] <DaQatz> Mak'in a bramble/
[13:31] <DaQatz> ?
[13:31] <techman2> haha
[13:31] <techman2> I wonder how long it will be before the batch of 10k get out there
[13:31] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[13:32] <ShiftPlusOne> idn, the numbers given by farnell seem ti imply they only have a very small fraction of the 10k
[13:32] <zag> should be next week acording to rs-components
[13:32] * afief (~quassel@46-116-187-23.bb.netvision.net.il) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 360 seconds.)
[13:32] * afief (~quassel@46-116-187-23.bb.netvision.net.il) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:33] <techman2> according to the slashdot interview with eben Farnell and RS were supposed to get half each.
[13:33] <drazyl> running smoke tests at the moment
[13:33] <DaQatz> techman2, Don't think that's gonna happen
[13:33] <drazyl> 240v, 239v, 238v, 237v and 236v all result in the magic smoke leaving so far
[13:33] <DaQatz> RS dropped the ball.
[13:33] <techman2> DaQatz: that's for sure.
[13:34] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5695.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:34] <ReggieUK> hi all
[13:34] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning
[13:34] <ReggieUK> what a gwarn?
[13:35] <zag> not really rs seems very gair
[13:35] <zag> check their faq
[13:35] <zag> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi
[13:35] <ReggieUK> anything happened, website back, furore died down?
[13:35] <drazyl> reggieuk no
[13:35] <zag> yes, no and yes ;)
[13:37] <ReggieUK> nice to see RS have finally come clean about not having any stock :)
[13:37] <ReggieUK> I found out about that on the day :D
[13:38] <ReggieUK> but I'll be damned if I was going to be the one to tell you lot about it
[13:38] <ReggieUK> you'd have strung me up from the nearest lamp post
[13:38] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh I think everyone knew that the companies didn't have stock yet
[13:38] <ShiftPlusOne> well everyone who was paying attention
[13:39] <RaTTuS|BIG> I poasted the RS statment as soon as I heard about it
[13:39] <ReggieUK> which was probably about 20 of us :D
[13:39] <ReggieUK> I spoke directly to an RS rep in the afternoon and coaxed it out of her about the state of stock
[13:39] <ReggieUK> Farnell on the other hand apparently did have 800 boards in stock
[13:39] <ReggieUK> which sold in apparently under 2minutes
[13:40] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:40] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh, not in stock, but expected to come in on the 8th
[13:40] <DaQatz> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/03/01/2235222/riaa-ceo-hopes-sopa-protests-were-a-one-time-thing
[13:40] <RaTTuS|BIG> RS has informed people how it's going to work
[13:40] <DaQatz> How stupid are these folk?
[13:41] <DDave> DaQatz: not as stupid as my country
[13:41] <ShiftPlusOne> the slashdot folks? I think more arrogant than stupid. Well, RIAA too.
[13:41] <DDave> They said "ACTA AND SOPA ARENT GOING TO CHANGE OUR DAILY LIVES"
[13:41] <DDave> LOOOL
[13:41] <Magoggles> Rofl Daqatz
[13:42] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, apparently this was actual stock, again, someone collared a farnell rep at a trade show and had a nice chat with them about it
[13:42] <ShiftPlusOne> Idn, 8th of March was a pretty specific date to give and she did say 800 as well
[13:42] <Magoggles> The ROSA live in a fantasy world where the internet wants to be controlled
[13:42] <Magoggles> Uhh
[13:43] <Magoggles> RIAA
[13:43] <Magoggles> Damn auto correct
[13:43] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.86.153) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:43] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[13:43] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, someone is fibbing somewhere then :D I don't believe the guy I spoke to was fibbing but the rep he spoke to could well have been or just plain mistaken
[13:44] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't think it's fibbing, just miscommunication somewhere
[13:44] <ReggieUK> oh sure, I'm not suggesting anyone is actually telling blatant mistruths
[13:45] <Magoggles> Maybe uh they have different amounts of units for diff places
[13:45] <ShiftPlusOne> Magoggles, that's what I think... I think it's 800 for UK, 800 for Australia and so on
[13:45] <techman2> I find it interesting reading that RS FAQ
[13:45] <ReggieUK> we do know that some boards were supposed to be in the country, so it's possible farnell had some in
[13:45] <ShiftPlusOne> but I am only about 20% certain
[13:45] <techman2> i.e Q - If I register my interest for Raspberry Pi, will you use my contact details for marketing purposes, as Farnell will?
[13:45] <Magoggles> Lol
[13:46] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://yfrog.com/mg4m3qmj <- from dave bradam
[13:46] <RaTTuS|BIG> off twitter
[13:46] <ShiftPlusOne> nice
[13:46] <ReggieUK> anyone know where daves office is?
[13:46] <RaTTuS|BIG> camberage
[13:46] <RaTTuS|BIG> damn my typics
[13:47] <ShiftPlusOne> maybe the 8th is when they will start shipping them out
[13:48] <Thorn_> maybe the 8th is when they will admit it was all a massive hoax
[13:48] <ReggieUK> so perhaps the farnell rep just meant the first 800 they'd been allocated had sold out within 2minutes and as you say ShiftPlusOne, 8th is actual ship date
[13:48] <ShiftPlusOne> yup, sounds most probable
[13:48] <ShiftPlusOne> wonder why it's only 800 though
[13:49] <Magoggles> They trolling
[13:49] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:50] <DaQatz> Magoggles, the who thing is one huge troll.
[13:50] <DaQatz> Magoggles, It's not that their are no pi's it just the ACTUALLY cost $600
[13:50] <DaQatz> >.>
[13:50] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, because the original chinese mfrs. probably can't do a huge batch
[13:50] <chris_99> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Custom-case-Raspberry-Pi-Model-B-professional-Recycled-/290677470826?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item43adba366a
[13:50] <ReggieUK> it seemed everything was piecemeal from them
[13:51] <ShiftPlusOne> and tha raspberry pi finally got TV coverage in Australia, but only when it launched.
[13:51] <ShiftPlusOne> *the
[13:51] <Magoggles> Strata mate
[13:51] <Magoggles> Fffff
[13:51] <Magoggles> Straya
[13:51] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, Yeah, but then more should be coming in fairly soon.
[13:51] * afief (~quassel@46-116-187-23.bb.netvision.net.il) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:51] <ShiftPlusOne> and it doesn't seem to be 'that' soon.
[13:52] <ukscone> morning all
[13:52] <ReggieUK> yes but how quickly, we won't know
[13:52] <DaQatz> Morn ukscone
[13:52] * Magoggles (~androirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: Magoggles)
[13:52] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, morning
[13:52] <ReggieUK> you get the feeling that RS/Farnell will have their own self produced pis before the 10k batch has all arrived from china
[13:53] <ReggieUK> hi ukscone
[13:53] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:53] <ukscone> ReggieUK: yup my feeling too
[13:53] <DDave> i hope so.
[13:54] <ReggieUK> someone elsewhere mentioned that the pi board designs are open source?
[13:54] <ReggieUK> is that true
[13:54] * flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:54] * flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) has left #raspberrypi
[13:54] <ShiftPlusOne> yes
[13:54] <ShiftPlusOne> they will start open sourcing everything soon
[13:54] <ShiftPlusOne> well not EVERYTHING, but what they can
[13:54] <ReggieUK> although if it is true, it's pretty meaningless for 99% of us, as no one can buy the chips can they?
[13:54] <ukscone> ReggieUK: yes the pcb is open source just you can't gt the soc
[13:55] <ReggieUK> and when they can eventually get the chips, that still leaves 99% of screwed
[13:55] <ReggieUK> unless of course someone fancies making a through hole version of the pi?
[13:55] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[13:55] <ReggieUK> about the size of a 42" tv
[13:55] <DDave> :D
[13:55] <Thorn_> how big's that?
[13:55] <ShiftPlusOne> and would require a board layout genius to get it to work
[13:55] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:56] <ReggieUK> autoroute in eagle
[13:56] <ReggieUK> :D
[13:56] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:56] <IT_Sean> Good morning.
[13:56] <ShiftPlusOne> lol, autoroute is awful
[13:56] <ReggieUK> I want it single sided too
[13:56] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning
[13:56] <DDave> xyes it is..
[13:56] <DDave> LOL
[13:57] * ReggieUK phones the local swimming pool to ask if he is allowed to use FeCL in the shallow end?
[13:57] <IT_Sean> O_o
[13:57] <Magoggles> lol
[13:57] <ReggieUK> IT_Sean, forward planning for the through hole, single sided version of the pi
[13:57] <ReggieUK> got to etch them somewhere local
[13:57] <IT_Sean> Ahhhh... te he he
[13:57] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-gfhzwyxawsbkvouv) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:57] <DDave> you guys are all silly
[13:58] <RaYmAn> good luck convincing broadcom to make a DIP version of the SoC ;)
[13:58] <DDave> Just tell the chinese factory, "oi, copy it for me, heres 10k?"
[13:58] <DDave> there yo ugo.. lol
[13:58] * mariusL (~marius@89.37.9.70) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[13:58] <DDave> since they are very skilled at copying stuff, this shouldnt be a biggie
[13:58] <DDave> And for the SoC...guess where they are made :P
[13:59] <ukscone> :)
[13:59] <ReggieUK> It seems that there has been quite a big impact with the PI all over the place too
[13:59] <ReggieUK> 3 pages on one thread on an astronomy forum I frequent
[13:59] * sm4wwg (~root@h5n2-oer-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:00] <ReggieUK> and no, not all by me
[14:00] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[14:00] <ukscone> morning IT_Sean
[14:00] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, it finally made Australian news =/
[14:00] <IT_Sean> morning ukscone
[14:00] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[14:00] <ukscone> IT_Sean: i wasn't watching the screen last night still need something?
[14:00] <ShiftPlusOne> my ex called me up all excited that this raspberry pi thing I've been going on about is on the news and a big deal
[14:00] <ReggieUK> I Wonder who'll be the first to send one into space
[14:01] <ReggieUK> nasa or a bunch of enthusiasts
[14:01] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: my father emailed me some news cuttings about it
[14:01] <ukscone> and asked if it was any good
[14:01] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:01] <ukscone> he still uses dialup
[14:01] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[14:01] <ukscone> and an imac
[14:01] <IT_Sean> T'was not important. :)
[14:01] <ShiftPlusOne> jesus
[14:01] <sm4wwg> ReggieUK: Perhaps the radio amateur people. Not the first time ;-)
[14:02] <Magoggles> im surprised it made the aussie news at all... rather speculate about rudds dog challenging gillards dog for the position of first dog :P
[14:02] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[14:02] <ShiftPlusOne> to be fair it was on ACTUAL news (SBS)
[14:03] <Magoggles> ah
[14:03] <Magoggles> so nobody watched it then :P
[14:03] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[14:03] <Davespice> has anyone got a link to an Oz news site about that? My flatmates are from new south wales
[14:03] <ShiftPlusOne> no, people were watching kittens rescued from trees on the other channels
[14:03] <ReggieUK> sm4wwg, could be :)
[14:04] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: i thought it'd be the hot or not sheeep eedition
[14:04] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:04] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, no, there's a whole channel dedicated to that.
[14:04] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:04] <ShiftPlusOne> Davespice, I'll see if I can find it
[14:04] <Davespice> I've found this; http://www.sbs.com.au/news/video/2203656157/Raspberry-Pi-computer-excites-UK
[14:05] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:05] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:05] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: and 2 channels devoted to neighbours, prisoner and sons and daughters
[14:05] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:05] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:05] <ShiftPlusOne> no, neighbours is just crap we export to UK
[14:05] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:05] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:06] <ShiftPlusOne> We are highley ashamed that we have come to that, but you guys pay for it, so it keeps the country going.
[14:06] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:06] <ShiftPlusOne> Davespice, http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1630749/Raspberry-Pi-computer-goes-on-sale ah yeah, beat me to it
[14:06] <shirro> ukscone: We don't watch neighbours or drink Fosters in Australia
[14:06] <RaTTuS|BIG> it all went down hill after Prision in cell block h finished
[14:07] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Excess Flood)
[14:07] <Thorn_> you watch home & away instead?
[14:07] * Matt (matt@spoon.pkl.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:07] <ShiftPlusOne> "It's called a pi because it runs a programming called python" wtf is Eben on about? Is that true? =/
[14:08] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: yes eben may be smart but he sucks at spelling
[14:08] <Thorn_> tbh nobody has ever dared tell him he sucks at spelling though
[14:08] * alyosha_sql (~a@88.200.57.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:08] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes the Pi bit comes from python
[14:08] <Thorn_> look at what he did to all those guys in The Transporter...
[14:08] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: That was his initial projection for worldwide sales. 3 and a bit.
[14:09] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:10] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:10] <jamesd256> fruit based computer brand names unlikely to happen:
[14:10] <jamesd256> lemon, banana
[14:10] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:10] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:10] <Magoggles> grapefruit
[14:10] <flibble> apricot, tangerine :)
[14:10] <shirro> There were Apples, pears and apricots I recall
[14:10] <jamesd256> nope, had apricot :)
[14:10] <Thorn_> cherry
[14:11] <shirro> don't they just make keyboards?
[14:11] <drazyl> tangerine existed as well I think
[14:11] <jamesd256> aha, yes, had cherry
[14:11] <Thorn_> pitaya
[14:11] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:11] <Thorn_> rambutan
[14:11] <flibble> melon
[14:11] <Thorn_> lychee
[14:11] <shirro> Durian - might be hard to sell
[14:12] <Magoggles> durian
[14:12] <Magoggles> damnit beaten
[14:12] <Thorn_> are you copying them off the same page as me? :D
[14:12] <ShiftPlusOne> cucumber?
[14:12] <des2> kumquat ?
[14:12] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-123-211-145-67.lnse3.woo.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:12] <jamesd256> cucumber isn't a fruit
[14:12] <jamesd256> or is it?
[14:12] <Thorn_> african cucumber is atleast
[14:12] <ShiftPlusOne> jamesd256, it is a botanical fruit, not a culinary one, I think.
[14:12] <des2> tomato ?
[14:12] <jamesd256> wow
[14:12] <Thorn_> http://blog.hotelclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/10_african_horned_cucumber.jpg
[14:12] <Thorn_> looks friendly
[14:12] <jamesd256> I thought you said jamesd256 is a botanical fruit for a sec
[14:13] <ShiftPlusOne> you are! >=/
[14:13] <shirro> talking of nomenclature. What is the bet on the next version being C or Master?
[14:13] <jamesd256> thought i was rumbled
[14:13] <Magoggles> wow thats gnarly
[14:13] <flibble> jamesd256: you're more a botanical herb
[14:13] <ShiftPlusOne> In Africa, cucumber eats you?
[14:14] <ShiftPlusOne> Well, misusing an overused joke sure killed the conversation, lol.
[14:14] <flibble> hehe
[14:14] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:15] <shirro> If they keep to the Acorn inspired naming Pi Electron is a cool name. They would probably get stuck with a warehouse full of them.
[14:15] <Magoggles> I was an adenturer, until I took a horned african cucumber to the knee
[14:15] <jamesd256> maybe you shot a corpse
[14:15] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:16] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-178-004-235-036.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:16] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:16] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:16] <flibble> shirro: for an pi electron they'd have to halve the memory again, and remove mode 7 ;)
[14:17] <sm4wwg> I ordered a RPi on farnell (export) 29/02/2012 11:50 but it still says that the order is Received. Has been since ordered. Any one has the same issue? Would be nice to have it change to something else at least. Even if I probably will have to wait until april or so
[14:17] <jamesd256> you don't need mode 7 for elite, so braben will be happy
[14:17] <jamesd256> speaking of which oolite should run fairly well methinks
[14:18] * flibble nods
[14:18] <ShiftPlusOne> sm4wwg, what's the problem exactly? Meaning THEY have recieved the order...
[14:18] <Magoggles> mine is processing
[14:18] <ShiftPlusOne> jamesd256, oolite is written for open gl, not opengl es, I think... so there would be some porting to be done.
[14:19] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:19] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:19] <jamesd256> good point
[14:19] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:19] <sm4wwg> ShiftPlusOne: Wondered if it changed to someting else like Complete when they ack'
[14:19] <sm4wwg> ed the order
[14:20] * ReggieUK is not getting into oolite for a 2nd time in a year
[14:20] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:20] * Ahti333 (~Ahti333@dslc-082-082-133-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] <ShiftPlusOne> sm4wwg, only when they actually ship it out
[14:20] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:20] <sm4wwg> ShiftPlusOne: Ok, then I know! Thanks! :D
[14:20] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:20] <jamesd256> how hard is porting to opengl ES?
[14:21] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:21] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:21] <ShiftPlusOne> if they used VBOs and have done everything properly, not vey.... but I am not sure about what other libs they've used.
[14:21] <jamesd256> I presume most of it would be omitting rendering features not in ES
[14:22] <ShiftPlusOne> it's SDL as well
[14:22] <ShiftPlusOne> SDL 1.2 doesn't support ES
[14:22] <ShiftPlusOne> so it would need to be ported to 1.3
[14:22] <ShiftPlusOne> idn if much has changes there though
[14:23] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:23] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:24] <jamesd256> there is hope then
[14:24] <jamesd256> unsurprisingly, I just found a couple of threads on this
[14:24] <jamesd256> here's one: http://oolite.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11376&sid=3a9b85ef9ac8f86fd4fb7a428853f983
[14:25] * saua (~saua@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:26] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-02/warning-issued-over-giant-pine-cones/3864430
[14:26] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[14:26] <des2> Those things are enormous
[14:27] <flibble> clucking bell
[14:27] <ShiftPlusOne> Mayor Diane Blackwood says the cones are potentially lethal.
[14:27] <ShiftPlusOne> "These things are enormous," she said.
[14:27] <ShiftPlusOne> Best statement from a government official ever
[14:27] <jamesd256> "So you wouldn't want to be under one, I tell you."
[14:27] <jamesd256> you can just hear the aussie accent
[14:27] <jamesd256> number one random link of the day..like
[14:28] * dotted1 (~bfj@9DGW51.bang-olufsen.dk) has left #raspberrypi
[14:28] * rudebwoy (~rudebwoy@smtx.mooo.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:28] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[14:28] * victhor (~victhor@177.17.6.250) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:28] <lars_t_h> In the start the Foundation was thinking this: ???This is a little university project that we thought might sell a few hundred units,??? said Upton.
[14:28] <techman2> that would make a mess if it landed on someone's head.
[14:29] <lars_t_h> from http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1138709--35-computer-with-toronto-designed-software-sells-out-worldwide-in-minutes
[14:29] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:29] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:29] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:29] * Maroni (~user@178-165-240-220.dyn.orange.at) Quit (Quit: 'quit_message')
[14:29] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:29] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:29] <ShiftPlusOne> heh... a few hundred
[14:29] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:29] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:29] <IT_Sean> [censored]! I've just been told i need to remap a share on an old Win 98 PC to our new Win 2008 server. Problem is, You can't really map a win 98 pc to a win 2k8 share. At least... it is "not officially supported" by MS. :/
[14:29] * victhor (~victhor@187.59.121.107) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:29] * IT_Sean now has to figure out how to make this work.
[14:30] <techman2> IT_Sean: duct tape and good intentions will get you through.
[14:30] <DaQatz> Downgrade the win 2003 machine. When it doesn't work right tell them that's what it takes to get what they asked for before.
[14:30] <IT_Sean> techman2: i fail to see how duck tape will solve this particular issue.
[14:31] <IT_Sean> DaQatz: Buggering w/ the server OS is Not An Option.
[14:31] <DaQatz> Dang
[14:31] <Kolin> windows 98....
[14:31] <techman2> IT_Sean: metaphorical duct tape.
[14:31] <des2> It's really time for them to upgrade to XP
[14:31] <ShiftPlusOne> MacGyver something up
[14:31] <IT_Sean> I may have to move the resource that that Win 98 machine needs to one of our 2k3 serverws
[14:31] <IT_Sean> des2: that machine is running windows 98 because it needs to run a program that ONLY works under 98
[14:32] <des2> Ah I've seen those.
[14:32] * rvalles (~rvalles@unaffiliated/rvalles) Quit (Quit: bbl)
[14:32] <IT_Sean> Its a ratty old PC in a dusty corner of our production floor, and it is used only for burning eeproms
[14:32] <ReggieUK> kick it
[14:32] <IT_Sean> it's also the ONLY win 98 PC we have. So... kicking it is NOT an option.
[14:32] <ReggieUK> then sternly shout at it
[14:33] <IT_Sean> it WOULD fall apart if i kiked it.
[14:33] <DaQatz> Time perhaps to find a new way burning those roms?
[14:33] <ReggieUK> that usually works for win98
[14:33] <ShiftPlusOne> Custom pi case: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290677470826#ht_500wt_1202
[14:33] <ReggieUK> I'm with DaQatz
[14:33] * hotwings (hd@secksy.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:33] <rob_> do the windows test
[14:33] <IT_Sean> I'll try shouting at it. I also plan to suggest what DaQatz said.
[14:33] <ReggieUK> vm and an ftdi chip
[14:33] <des2> I"m with the moving the disk over
[14:33] <rob_> see how many windows you can through it out of before it becomes fixed
[14:33] <DDave> Unlike the Raspberry Pi Model B, this container was made in a British manufacturing facility.
[14:33] <DDave> LOOOL
[14:33] * hotwings (hd@secksy.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:34] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[14:34] <IT_Sean> I could pitch it off the roof.
[14:34] * jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[14:34] <ReggieUK> strap it to a skateboard and push it down a hill
[14:34] <techman2> IT_Sean: fix it with fire.
[14:34] <ReggieUK> when someone asks what you're doing, say 'just making it go a bit faster'
[14:34] * datagutt_ is now known as datagutt
[14:35] * techman2 wanted to do that with a Quantum tape drive today.
[14:35] <des2> Tape, I rmember that.
[14:36] <techman2> we still sell tape drives
[14:36] <IT_Sean> we still USE tape drives.
[14:36] * zutesmog1 (~timh@CPE-124-185-20-118.lns7.cha.bigpond.net.au) has left #raspberrypi
[14:36] <techman2> usually LTO4.
[14:36] <des2> Paper tape ?
[14:36] <IT_Sean> no... not paper tape. :/
[14:36] <kieferz> haha
[14:36] * IT_Sean hides the stack of punch cards sitting in his office
[14:36] * IT_Sean looks around
[14:36] <techman2> lol
[14:37] * IT_Sean wistles innocently
[14:37] <des2> 80 or 96 column ?
[14:37] <IT_Sean> I was joking.
[14:37] * rvalles (~rvalles@unaffiliated/rvalles) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:37] * sm4wwg (~root@h5n2-oer-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[14:38] * techman2 can't imagine what it would be like to run "Hello World" over several days.
[14:38] <ShiftPlusOne> dammit... Linode has hacked =/
[14:38] <des2> That's not good
[14:39] <DDave> why joknig IT_Sean ?
[14:39] <DDave> I know several businesses who still use tapes for backups
[14:39] <IT_Sean> I was joking about the punch cards... not the tapes.
[14:39] <IT_Sean> We've got piles of tapes
[14:40] <DDave> i honestly dont know if anyone knows how to use them though..
[14:40] <DDave> would it be like using a normal hdd?
[14:40] <Matt> ShiftPlusOne: really?
[14:40] <DDave> I suppose theres abstraction being done ;)
[14:40] <ShiftPlusOne> Matt, they targeted bitcoin miners though
[14:40] <ShiftPlusOne> Matt, but you never know =/
[14:40] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:41] <Matt> plenty of businesses still use tape
[14:41] <IT_Sean> Dammit. Everything i see on the innernets indiates that what i'm trying to do can't really be done
[14:41] <techman2> Matt: we still advocate tape as a primary off-site backup
[14:41] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[14:41] <techman2> for people who have the money.
[14:41] <Matt> LTO-4 is 800GB native IIRC
[14:41] <techman2> yes
[14:42] <Matt> and used in plenty of our clients
[14:42] <techman2> 800/1600GB
[14:42] <Magoggles> I still have some tape cartridges and nothing to do with them :/
[14:42] <Matt> and it's still about the best long term archival method
[14:42] <techman2> we've found 4 years seems to be average life span for a HP Ultrium 1760 SAS drive.
[14:42] <Matt> as long as you archive a couple of drives too :)
[14:43] <techman2> yes
[14:43] <Matt> and software that can read the tapes
[14:43] <techman2> Matt: we had a client who had some 7 year archival tapes that were old AIT2.
[14:43] <Matt> and potentially a system that can run the software
[14:43] <techman2> then their drive died...
[14:43] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:43] <Matt> techman2: ebay :)
[14:43] <techman2> yeah they got one off ebay
[14:43] <Matt> we've got an AIT-1 drive for exactly that reason
[14:43] <techman2> looked like it had lived on a boat
[14:44] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:44] <techman2> all corroded
[14:44] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:44] <techman2> we managed to scalp one out of a trade in server for them
[14:44] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:44] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:44] <techman2> we're going to have to get them to move the old stuff over to external USB drives.
[14:44] <Matt> we've got a customer who have to archive stuff pretty much indefinitely
[14:45] <Matt> they're onto their 4th or 5th generation of drives
[14:45] <Matt> and I think even that's SDLT
[14:45] <techman2> one of our clients is a local council, they are supposed to archive employment records for 72 years.
[14:45] <Matt> rather than SDLT-2
[14:45] <techman2> damn
[14:45] <shirro> Years back had a client had server and tape drive stolen. Had lots of fun finding a drive and software to get their business running again.
[14:45] <techman2> that must be a pain
[14:45] <flibble> "Real Men don't make backups. They upload it via ftp and let the world mirror it." - Linus Torvalds
[14:45] * Matt nods
[14:45] * victhor (~victhor@187.59.121.107) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:46] <Matt> their stuff gets picked up and trucked off to a long-term storage facility
[14:46] <techman2> ah
[14:46] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:46] <techman2> it's hard to keep stuff for more than a few years
[14:46] <Matt> but yes, in the event they need to read old media - it's a pain :)
[14:46] * victhor (~victhor@186.212.229.66) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:47] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:47] <Matt> given it's on a totally different arch
[14:47] <mjr> flibble, the modern variant is encrypting your backup as "wikileaks-insurance-[date].aes256" and posting it on torrent sites
[14:47] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:47] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:47] <Matt> the older stuff was all AIX stuffs
[14:47] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:47] <flibble> got a company to open source some 10 year old stuff, they had a nightmare tracking down old tapes and HDs
[14:48] <Magoggles> lol mjr
[14:48] <flibble> was on QIC tape
[14:48] <flibble> mjr: hah, must try that :D
[14:48] * Matt nods
[14:48] <des2> of if you need it for less tha 2 years post it to Usenet
[14:48] <Matt> QIC was fun
[14:48] <Magoggles> I really wish shit would hit the fan just so the insurance was used :P
[14:48] <techman2> even IDE drives are starting to become orphaned on new systems.
[14:49] <drazyl> if they want to archive for 72 years surely microfiche is the tech
[14:49] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:49] * SSgtSpoon|work (~SSgtSpoon@c-174-54-83-119.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:49] <flibble> printed on low acid paper or try papyrus in sealed jars :D
[14:49] <techman2> drazyl: it's all paper records. can't imagine they'll be much good in 70 years
[14:49] <Magoggles> stone tablets
[14:50] <flibble> depending on the type of paper and ink, it could work pretty well
[14:50] <flibble> most (non damp) 200 year old books are completely readable :)
[14:50] <techman2> it's all standard office printouts
[14:50] <des2> as long as it is the acid-free paper
[14:50] <techman2> no special effort made
[14:50] * flibble nods
[14:50] <Matt> well they kept them for 72 years...
[14:51] <shirro> Messiest recovery I had was an obsolete Tandberg drive, obsolete Arcserve and obsolete Netware. Gave me a real appreciation for tar.
[14:51] <techman2> that does sound like fun shirro.
[14:52] * Ben64 (~Ben64@cpe-76-175-218-76.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:52] <lars_t_h> Someone had designed a case the Pi using Blender: http://www.blendernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/raspberry-pi-case_05a-533x400.jpg Image is from http://www.blendernation.com/2012/03/02/raspberry-pi/
[14:52] <flibble> I dunno, a couple of days hacking around with a pile of old tech has some appeal :D
[14:52] <Magoggles> sexy case
[14:52] <flibble> that does look pretty good
[14:52] <Matt> it does indeed
[14:52] <nuil> jep
[14:53] <flibble> I would do a lego case, but it's just too easy
[14:53] <Matt> but is it printable? :)
[14:53] <techman2> yeah but I wouldn't like the stress of having it be super important data to recover.
[14:53] <des2> Nice but I'd still like to see more vent openings
[14:53] <flibble> (built 5 lego cases before for other hardware)
[14:53] <Matt> it would appear to be :)
[14:53] * wiiguy (~fake@dhcp-077-249-161-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:53] * wiiguy (~fake@dhcp-077-249-161-109.chello.nl) Quit (Changing host)
[14:53] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:53] <Magoggles> I need to build my reprap and print a case
[14:53] <victhor> so people do use Blender for CAD
[14:53] <flibble> http://www.home.marutan.net/~peter/subsite/photos/20101023%20-%20RISC%20OS%20London%20Show%202010/images/img_6393.jpg One of my lego cases
[14:54] <Magoggles> niiice
[14:54] * Hugo332 (55a027db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.160.39.219) has left #raspberrypi
[14:55] <flibble> http://www.marutan.net/comp/v4/index.php or 1U rack mountable lego
[14:55] <nuil> great flibble
[14:55] <lars_t_h> Magoggles, maybe visit a friend in CPH and visit Labitat, http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Labitat and make a reprap
[14:55] <techman2> that's a sweet case
[14:55] <Magoggles> pffft
[14:55] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
[14:55] <Magoggles> our hackerspace is cooler
[14:56] <Magoggles> its called robots & dinosaurs, hence better :P
[14:56] <lars_t_h> haha :P
[14:56] <Magoggles> unfortunately I lack the time to ever go :/
[14:57] <flibble> If I can find a small lcd TV with composite in, I'll build a R-Pi lego palmtop
[14:57] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@c-24-11-54-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[15:00] <Matt> nice
[15:01] <des2> I think they call that a Cellphone
[15:01] <flibble> hehe
[15:02] <flibble> I'll use a sensible keyboard though :)
[15:02] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-hkxjccxngwnsugji) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:02] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:03] <flibble> main thing is trying to find a portable TV that runs of 5V, so I can make it easy to power
[15:03] <Simon-> why do you need 5V?
[15:04] <flibble> same voltage as the Pi
[15:04] <ahven> one powersource
[15:04] <Simon-> 12V should be easier to work with
[15:04] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-hkxjccxngwnsugji) has left #raspberrypi
[15:04] <IT_Sean> 12V would be easier to find.
[15:04] * flibble nods
[15:04] <Simon-> you can use a mini PSU to get 12V down to 5V
[15:04] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:04] <alk__> flibble: get this keyboard for your pi :) http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,realforce&pid=rf_se02b0
[15:04] <Simon-> and I know 12V TVs exist... you'll get them for cars
[15:04] <IT_Sean> And then you can run both off the same source... just branch it off and step it down to a regulated 5V for the pi
[15:04] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:04] <Simon-> you can even use the PSU to regulate the 12V supply
[15:04] <flibble> there's some heat issues related to using lego, have to try to keep temps to under 45 C
[15:04] <Simon-> although those cost more...
[15:05] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:05] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:05] * MadsRC (~mrc@193.169.75.65) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:06] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
[15:06] * rely_train is now known as rely
[15:06] * sharix (5d67ef02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.103.239.2) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[15:07] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:08] <IT_Sean> I would think that an automotive 12v input ATX PSU (check ebay and such) would have properly regulated 12v and 5v outputs you could use.
[15:08] <jamesd256> that blender case looks great
[15:09] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@63-152-79-50.cdrr.qwest.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:09] <jamesd256> can't see much airflow, but haven't looked at the model in detail yet
[15:09] <flibble> won't need airflow
[15:09] <IT_Sean> don't need airflow
[15:09] <IT_Sean> the raspi runs cool
[15:09] <flibble> snap
[15:09] <jamesd256> ok
[15:09] <des2> 3.5 Watts has to go somewhere.
[15:10] <jamesd256> anyone, like me, been looking to get into 3d printing should know about the printrbot if they don't already
[15:10] <jamesd256> significantly lowers barriers to entry, or should do when available
[15:10] <IT_Sean> des2: the raspi does not generate enough heat to require active cooling.
[15:10] <jamesd256> should be available at about same time as the PI :)
[15:10] <jamesd256> IT_Sean, needn't be active we're talking about
[15:11] <jamesd256> the right venting design would produce a passively moved airflot
[15:11] <jamesd256> lol airflot=airflow
[15:11] <des2> My 12 Watt Atom doesn't have active cooling but it does have lots of vent slots.
[15:11] <flibble> a simple hole in the case would allow flow my convection :)
[15:11] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:11] <IT_Sean> I'm not suggesting putting it in an airtight box... but, even a very small vent would be more than enough.
[15:12] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:12] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:12] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:13] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:13] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:13] <rely> edn't be active we're talking about
[15:13] <rely> 09:10 <+jamesd256> the right venting design would produce a passively moved airflot
[15:13] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:13] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:13] <flibble> the chip itself isn't even fitted with a heatsink
[15:13] * IT_Sean is planning to house his, which will be used for XBMC, in a very nicely finished, small wooden box, with the necessary ports routed via to the rear of the box.
[15:13] <flibble> it's really not going to get hot at all
[15:13] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:13] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:14] <flibble> I was tempted to steal the fag packet design
[15:14] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:14] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:15] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:15] <zag> http://www.raspberrypiforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=149 <---has anyone been emailed by RS-Components yet?
[15:15] <jamesd256> I'm planning to 3d print a housing which will accommodate a screen and keyboard and a sub housing to dock into it holding the PI
[15:15] <zag> they say its going out by the end of today
[15:15] * oldtopman bought from farnell
[15:15] <chris_99> not i zag
[15:15] <des2> Yes Zag
[15:16] <des2> I received it
[15:16] <zag> when?
[15:16] <chris_99> what did they say des2?
[15:16] <des2> One sec.
[15:16] <des2> I'll cut and paste
[15:16] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi
[15:16] <RaTTuS|BIG> grr
[15:16] <RaTTuS|BIG> ignore
[15:17] <des2> Thank you for joining the Raspberry Pi revolution and registering your interest in Raspberry Pi?s Model B board from RS Components.
[15:17] <des2> We have received extraordinary levels of demand for this product. To help ensure as many people as possible can experience the Raspberry Pi concept, we are limiting boards to one per customer, and we will send you further information on your request in the next seven days. Once we receive the boards into stock, they will be allocated on a first-come first-serve basis, in order of when requests were
[15:17] <des2> received.
[15:17] <des2> Thank you for your patience; we will be in touch as soon as possible with more details.
[15:17] <chris_99> heh, that's not very informative
[15:17] <zag> ahh ok maybe thats just because you ordered more than 1?
[15:17] <zag> we are waiting for the actual email about orders being fulfilled
[15:18] <des2> Got it yesterday at 4:13 PM
[15:18] * swiley (~swiley@87.sub-75-197-73.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:18] <des2> No that was for Registering Interest on the RS site
[15:18] <des2> They haven't sold any yet
[15:19] <des2> Apparently they're now waiting until they receive the first shipment
[15:19] <zag> faq says they should be shipping 9th March to all that registered an interest first
[15:20] <des2> Then they will Email all those people with further instructions
[15:20] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has left #raspberrypi
[15:20] <techman2> I was under the impression that when they launched the batch of 10k would be ready to go
[15:21] <des2> A lot of impressions turned out not to be true
[15:21] <techman2> it doesn't seem like that is the case.
[15:21] <techman2> there's been no word from the foundation since launch day either..
[15:22] <des2> They're in hiding.
[15:22] <flibble> heh
[15:22] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:22] <IT_Sean> They are all still down the pub
[15:22] <flibble> or just nursing off the world's biggest hangover
[15:22] * wkl (~Conan@219.142.118.237) Quit (Quit: wkl)
[15:23] <IT_Sean> flibble: that's what monday is set aside for.
[15:23] <IT_Sean> Why is the Virgin Atlantic website being such a [censored] this morning!?
[15:23] <zag> epic pub session lol
[15:24] <zag> probably good to have a break, lizz was sounding a little stressed
[15:24] * heyfriends (add4656e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.212.101.110) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:24] <des2> speaking of the PI, I see newegg has a 15GB Class 10 SDHC card onsale this morning
[15:24] <des2> 16 rather
[15:25] <flibble> hmm
[15:25] * mjr reminds that there's still apparently that thing about (many) class 10 cards failing to boot on the pi
[15:25] <flibble> I hadn't really thought about cards yet
[15:25] <flibble> I've a spare 2 GB
[15:25] <flibble> and 4GB class 4 are cheap at asda
[15:25] <des2> $18 ($10 after $* rebate)
[15:25] <steve_rox> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Custom-case-Raspberry-Pi-Model-B-professional-Recycled-/290677470826?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item43adba366a
[15:25] <steve_rox> wtf
[15:25] <steve_rox> !!
[15:26] <des2> lol
[15:26] <jojo> they are waiting for a large shipment of banhammers before they can reopen the forums
[15:26] <des2> Someone has a sense of humor
[15:26] <victhor> ROFL
[15:26] <steve_rox> indeed
[15:26] <des2> That's hillarious
[15:26] <flibble> jojo: well there's only so much "We told you so" Liz will take before exploding ;)
[15:26] <steve_rox> and theres 6 bids on it
[15:27] <des2> Q: Hi can you describe the health warning on the back please? I can handle the moustachioed hippy with the tumour-as-a-scarf picture and "smoking can cause a slow and painful death" message, it's the one with the... Continue reading
[15:27] <des2> A: It says 'Curiosity killed the cat'
[15:27] <Hexxeh> Anyone diagnosed as to why Class 10 cards don't work?
[15:27] <victhor> I didn't know those mock auctions were real
[15:27] <victhor> I have seen lots of screen caps but never an actual link...
[15:27] <des2> I've heard it's a bug in the bootloader code Hexxeh
[15:28] <Hexxeh> des2: But that's stored on the SD isn't it, and so it's something that's fixable with only software changes on the card?
[15:29] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[15:30] <lennard> are we supposed to get worried about the radio silence yet? :)
[15:31] <des2> Someone beiefly discussed it in the channel here and they indicated it was something thought to be fixable in software.
[15:31] * dwery (~dwery@nslu2-linux/dwery) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:32] * hexorg (~hexorg@76.165.72.34) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:32] <hexorg> Hey hey hey :D
[15:32] <Hexxeh> des2: That's good
[15:32] <hexorg> So PI comes w/ Fedora, but can I put any diff. linux on it? I'm a fan of gentoo. Can I put gentoo on Pi?
[15:33] <Hexxeh> hexorg: No reason why not
[15:33] <chris_99> it doesn't actually come with anything i thought
[15:33] <Hexxeh> I'm really not sure why you'd WANT to put Gentoo on though, because compiling from source is going to be painful without cross-compiling
[15:33] <Hexxeh> Unless someone sets up a Raspberry Pi binhost
[15:33] * IT (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:33] * IT is now known as Guest86505
[15:33] <Hexxeh> But then you've lost the big advantage of Gentoo anyway...
[15:34] <hexorg> Hexxeh: well one, I'm a psycho haha
[15:34] <Caver> Hexxeh, thats the joy of open source -- even if everyone else things your mad, you can do it anyway
[15:34] <Hexxeh> Caver: True
[15:34] * Guest86505 is now known as [IT]
[15:34] <Caver> what about Mandrake :P
[15:34] <Hexxeh> People still use that?
[15:34] <des2> Hexxeh there was discussion on the forum (cached) http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kaBQDZpHs1AJ:www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/class-10-sd-cards-on-the-production-boards/page-3+class+10+sd+card+raspberrypi+bug&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
[15:34] <nuil> arch?
[15:35] <hexorg> Hexxeh: I'd rather wait an hour for kernel compilation, then have a kernel with a ton of stuff I don't need
[15:35] <Hexxeh> des2: I'll check that out, thanks for the link
[15:35] <Caver> nuil, if there is a arch ARM port - sure
[15:35] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:35] <nuil> Caver: i'm a debianoid user
[15:35] <Magoggles> lol I havent used mandrake since about 97
[15:35] <nuil> Caver: arch is working on dockstar, so that is not the problem
[15:35] <Magoggles> err
[15:36] <Magoggles> 98
[15:36] <Caver> grins ... sadly last time I head about mandrake I think their going slowely bust
[15:36] <Hexxeh> I believe someone uploaded an Arch image already
[15:36] <dwery> hi.. anyone knows if there's a working spi master driver for thr RPi ?
[15:36] <Caver> nuil, http://elinux.org/RPi_Distributions does talk about Arch, so yes I think it will be possible
[15:36] * [IT] (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:36] <Caver> spi driver? what is that
[15:36] <des2> Some distributions must die to make way for the new...
[15:36] <jamesd256> anyone know if the pi's bios lets you boot from USB?
[15:36] <ahven> nope
[15:36] <ahven> sd first, then use it to boot from usb
[15:37] <des2> PI doesn't have a bios
[15:37] <mrdragons> Pi has no bios in the conventional PC sense.
[15:37] <hexorg> dwery: what about USB -> SPI
[15:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> the GPu boots from the SD card which tehn can boot from the USB
[15:37] <Caver> jamesd256, nope .. had a hardcoded rom in the GPU, that starts the SD card, reads in the bniary blob, and looks for the kernel and loads it then boots it
[15:37] <jamesd256> so you can't boot from USB with no card loaded?
[15:37] <dwery> hexorg: doable, but RPi has spi on board and I'd like to use that ;)
[15:37] <drazyl> jamesd256 cant boot at all without an sd card
[15:37] <Caver> if you switch it on with out a card in, it will do nothing
[15:38] <jamesd256> ok, thanks all
[15:38] <Caver> you *could* put a SD card in, with a program on it, that chains a USB setup
[15:38] <hexorg> dwery: oh if it does then great XD Even more stuff to be able to make :D
[15:38] <Hexxeh> Does the Raspberry Pi have to boot off of USB, or is the hardware capable of booting from USB too?
[15:38] <dwery> hexorg: I guess I'll have to write it
[15:38] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:38] <jamesd256> let's say you had a class 10 that wouldn't boot, could you boot off another card, load the OS from USB, then switch to the class 10?
[15:39] <jamesd256> I have a bunch of cheap 32GB class 10s
[15:39] <Caver> erm ... yes in theory
[15:39] <Caver> I've switched entire hard disks while linux is running
[15:39] <Caver> not easy mind!
[15:39] <drazyl> hexxeh it boots off SD card using a very set procedure. If you want to boot differently you will have to write a program that follows the initial procedure and then does what you need to do
[15:39] <Hexxeh> drazyl: But there's nothing in hardware that means it's SD only?
[15:39] <jamesd256> Caver: presumably not the disk with boot partition?
[15:40] <Caver> one the kernel is loaded it won't look at it again
[15:40] * heretic_w (~314159265@host81-138-205-228.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:40] <Caver> the kernel always just loads into RAM
[15:40] <jamesd256> If the SD is swappable when it's running, that's great
[15:40] <drazyl> hexxeh yes and no, the boot loader only supports the sd card. If you write a chain boot loader you are no longer using the original loader
[15:40] * ryld (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[15:40] <drazyl> (from that point on)
[15:40] * Ben64 (~Ben64@cpe-76-175-218-76.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:40] <Hexxeh> drazyl: I mean booting with any SD inserted at any point
[15:40] <jojo> i think gert suggested the model a could boot completely from usb, but it would probably need a different version of the blob which bcm are unlikely to make available
[15:40] <Hexxeh> drazyl: I know it'd require a new loader, just wondering if it's possible
[15:41] <Caver> jojo, it'd need a different SoC, as the behavour is hardcoded into the silicon of the GPU
[15:41] <hexorg> what are SD cards' read/write speeds? Won't booting of them be slow?
[15:41] <Hexxeh> Caver: Ah, so that's the answer I wanted, thanks
[15:41] <drazyl> Hexxeh IIRC: hardware loads blob, blob does magic, loads kernel, linux boot
[15:42] <jojo> Caver: again, i believe gert suggested that the soc can boot from usb, if there is no hub in the way
[15:42] <oldtopman> Theoretically, the blob could be modified to boot usb, or act as a bios
[15:42] <Hexxeh> drazyl: Sure, but it's a question of whether the hardware even considers the USB port when looking for the blob
[15:42] <drazyl> Hexxeh if you can get the blob to load your code correctly and it can make sense of the hardware to load something else, you are away
[15:42] <zgreg> the SoC contains embedded flash memory
[15:42] <Hexxeh> jojo: So it wouldn't be feasible on the Model A due to it's single port
[15:42] <zgreg> this is used for the first stage of the boot loader
[15:42] <Caver> ah ok ... didn't know that :)
[15:42] <drazyl> Hexxeh no, the blob is always loaded from sd card, that is the current hard-coded boot procedure
[15:43] <zgreg> maybe it's not actually flash, but OTP
[15:43] <jojo> i am not suggesting it is feasible, but obviously you would not make a chip that is literally hardcoded to boot only from sd
[15:44] <jojo> i think roku boots from parallel flash
[15:44] <Caver> oldtopman, it's the ROM in the GPU, that kicks off the booting process, so we can't change it
[15:44] <oldtopman> Caver: But that rom is written on first boot.
[15:44] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:44] <Caver> LOL you can't write to ROM ... kind of by definition
[15:44] <des2> I don't think you can write rom.
[15:44] <ukscone> Hexxeh: the model a is the only one that could be made to boot off usb. it needs other thing too that may not be forthcoming but the A is the only one that could if all else is available
[15:45] * hexorg (~hexorg@76.165.72.34) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
[15:45] <slaeshjag> Maybe it's a PROM? :>
[15:45] <Hexxeh> ukscone: Oh, of course, since the B has an internal hub right?
[15:45] <Caver> nope it's rom
[15:45] <ukscone> Hexxeh: but there are other problems such as only one slot so it might get convoluted
[15:45] <jojo> there is bound to be some flash in the soc that can be factory programmed by jtag as well
[15:45] <Hexxeh> ukscone: Yeah, I'm aware it's not practical, just wondered if it'd been considered before
[15:45] <zgreg> what jojo says
[15:45] * yanu (~yanu@lugwv/member/yanu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:45] <ReggieUK> ukscone, why is the a the only one able to boot from usb (when it's made to do it)
[15:45] <ukscone> Hexxeh: yes the B has a chip in the way that stops access directly to the soc
[15:45] <zgreg> there's either flash in the SoC, or otp
[15:46] <des2> The B has a built in USB hub
[15:46] <ReggieUK> still not sure I see why that would stop it
[15:46] <ukscone> ReggieUK: the the chip that provides the ethernet blocks direct access to the soc usb
[15:46] <ukscone> so you cna't do the clever stuff like switch to host mode
[15:47] <ukscone> client mode and otg and stuff like that
[15:47] <ReggieUK> ouch, that's a killer
[15:47] <flibble> my understand is, there's one usb line on the chip, on the A it goes straight to the socket, on the B, it goes to the chip with 2 port hub and USB connected ETH blob
[15:47] <Caver> yup thats about right
[15:47] <ukscone> ReggieUK: it's be like having a usb hub on a usb hub
[15:48] <ReggieUK> sure but that just sounds like it's a driver obfuscation issue for uboot
[15:48] <ReggieUK> so theoretically it's still possible
[15:48] <ReggieUK> but more work for whoever devs it
[15:49] <drazyl> USB OTG doesn't work through a hub I understand so it's out completely
[15:50] <nuil> flibble: isn't ethernet connected via usb?
[15:50] <ReggieUK> I forget now but is serial avaiable on the board?
[15:50] <ukscone> nuil: yes the chip that gives ethernet takes the one usb on the soc and multipleases to give 3 and then takes one back for ethernet
[15:50] <Caver> yes .. comes out on the GPIO header
[15:51] <ReggieUK> awesome, so boot from there then :)
[15:51] <ukscone> s.multipleases/multiplexes
[15:51] <heyfriends> best c programing tutorial?
[15:51] <chris_99> how stuff works have a good guide heyfriends
[15:51] <nuil> heyfriends: in german: galileo openbook
[15:51] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:52] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:53] <des2> Have you programmed before heyfriends ?
[15:53] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-123-211-145-67.lnse3.woo.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[15:53] <heyfriends> forgive me, but do i have to search for any special type of c programing guide if i am learning to program for an arm processor?
[15:53] <heyfriends> nope
[15:53] <des2> No
[15:53] <heyfriends> just look for some guide that programs with gcc, right?
[15:53] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:53] <des2> Just one for Linux programming
[15:54] <heyfriends> kk
[15:54] <des2> (for the system calls)
[15:54] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:54] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has left #raspberrypi
[15:54] * smjms (~janne@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe97fb00-191.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:55] * JoseLuis (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:55] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@bl15-148-243.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:56] <techman2> night all
[15:56] * techman2 (~gj@121.209.129.135) Quit (Quit: Remember the... the... uhh.....)
[15:57] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:57] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[15:58] <heyfriends> is c still relevant? all the guides i can find are at least a few years outdated
[15:58] <drazyl> yes
[15:58] <jamesd256> c is still relevant
[15:58] <des2> They achieved perfection 3 years ago
[15:58] <oldtopman> heyfriends: Yes.
[15:58] <des2> No other additions were needed
[15:58] * JoseLuis (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:58] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[15:58] <drazyl> it's a strong system language and will set you up well for many other languages as well
[15:59] <oldtopman> ^
[15:59] <oldtopman> It's the latin of computers.
[15:59] <drazyl> except it's still used :)
[15:59] <heyfriends> so i'd be safe to just go with a guide from 2005?
[15:59] <drazyl> yes
[15:59] <Caver> it should be said it's not the easiest of languages
[15:59] <drazyl> I disagree, it's relatively easy, but can be unforgiving
[16:00] <Caver> fair enough
[16:00] <Caver> I find the syntax for pointers etc rather confusing, but easy to their own :)
[16:00] <drazyl> C++ and assembler are hard, for opposite reasons
[16:00] <acp> Effect of R-Pi launch on RS' website traffic: http://static.ow.ly/photos/original/uiJC.jpg
[16:00] <Caver> defo!
[16:00] <drazyl> Caver true, but to begin with you only need to worry about them for strings, and that's quite easy
[16:00] <heyfriends> just looking for a new hobby
[16:01] <des2> These are the changes in C since 2005 heyfriends: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C11_%28C_standard_revision%29
[16:01] <Caver> Python is a higher level language and easier to pickup (please don't flame, just my opinion)
[16:01] <des2> Python is whay RPI will concentrate on
[16:01] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:01] <drazyl> Caver can't fidn the time or energy to learn Python, and not a fan of control follows indentation I must say
[16:01] <mdavey> acp: wow!
[16:01] <drazyl> but others seem to like it
[16:02] <Caver> drazyl, change your tab length to 2 charactors and it's a lot simpler!
[16:02] <Caver> heeh yup, I write loads in it, you get used to that after a while
[16:03] <mdavey> perl, ruby, php and java are all good languages to learn if Python isn't your thing.
[16:03] <des2> That's only a peak of about 3x from the intraday peak
[16:03] <drazyl> Caver call me a traditionalist, but I prefer layout and control to be separate
[16:03] <des2> That's not that much traffic
[16:03] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:03] <DJWillis> Is anyone doing much with the combo of the partial databook, u-boot and reverse eng. of the start.elf stuff?
[16:03] <Caver> drazyl, your a traditionalist
[16:04] <mdavey> interesting that it basically took until 1900 to return to 'normal' levels.
[16:04] <drazyl> Caver :)
[16:04] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:05] <jzu> Perl would be a bad language for a beginner, PHP has curious OO concepts
[16:05] <Caver> DJWillis, not as far as I know, I'm sure more will happen on that score, once they're delivered
[16:05] <Caver> LOL @ PHP and OO ...
[16:05] * heyfriends (add4656e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.212.101.110) Quit ()
[16:06] <Caver> anyway lets not start slagging off stuff, there are lots of options and people have differing tastes
[16:06] * warddr (~warddr@2a01:4f8:140:72a1::151) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:06] * warddr (~warddr@2a01:4f8:140:72a1::151) Quit (Changing host)
[16:06] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:06] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:06] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:06] <des2> Python seems to be the language RPF will be promoting
[16:06] <drazyl> yup
[16:06] <Caver> yup
[16:06] <jamesd256> jzu: it depends where you plan to take your programming
[16:06] <DJWillis> Caver: yep, just reading over things and interested based my little efforts in the past trying (and failing) to get far RE'ing Broadcom blobs ;). It scares me that it makes the OMAP setup look nice and sane and productive ;)
[16:07] * JoseLuis (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:07] <jamesd256> perl can be a great first choice for impatient would-be hackers who never plan to master c
[16:07] <Caver> now now
[16:07] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:07] <Caver> (I happen to agree, but can't we keep it positive in here?)
[16:07] <drazyl> I though perl was for people who preferred punctuation to words
[16:07] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[16:07] * ilukester (~chatzilla@pool-98-112-16-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:07] <Caver> "Write only code"
[16:08] <jamesd256> drazyl: there are them that give perl a bad name
[16:08] <jzu> I write Perl scripts fairly often, I like the language a lot, but I really really think it would be a bad idea to pick that one to start :-)
[16:08] <jamesd256> amazingly, it is possible to write well structured perl
[16:08] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit ()
[16:08] <jamesd256> that is actually readable
[16:08] <drazyl> it is possible to write perl that looks like C, as I used to annoy my boss
[16:08] <nuil> start with python
[16:08] <des2> When I leave out a punctuation char in C the compiler gives me an error message. When I leave one out in Perl it's a completely different program
[16:09] <drazyl> des2 :)
[16:09] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:09] <Caver> python does kinda force you into a certain layout style, which can be a good thing for the beginner
[16:09] <jamesd256> it's all about the perl debugger
[16:09] <nuil> Caver: exactly#
[16:09] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:10] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[16:10] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:10] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[16:10] <jamesd256> what I challenge is this stereotyped monofeatured 'beginner' everyone refers to
[16:10] <nuil> why not brainfuck =)
[16:10] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:10] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[16:10] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <jzu> or malbolge
[16:11] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <nuil> whitespace
[16:11] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[16:11] * heyfriends (add4656e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.212.101.110) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <mrdragons> Intercal. :D
[16:11] <nuil> http://ow.ly/i/uiJC
[16:11] <nuil> holy shit
[16:11] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <des2> They should Symbolically make a All Purpose Coding language for Beginner's Instruction
[16:12] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[16:12] <Caver> BASIC :P
[16:12] * malandro95 (~malandro9@199.30.184.116) Quit (Quit: malandro95)
[16:12] <jamesd256> ugh
[16:12] <nuil> assemlber
[16:12] * jamesd256 shudders
[16:12] <jzu> /kick Caver
[16:12] <nuil> :D
[16:12] <Caver> worked for me
[16:12] <jamesd256> what happened to pascal?
[16:12] <Caver> though I have gown up to be a python programmer, so ... YMMV
[16:13] <jzu> I began with Fortran IV actually
[16:13] <drazyl> jamesd256 C ate it's lunch
[16:13] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:13] <nuil> i started with php
[16:13] <jzu> I guess any language can do then
[16:13] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[16:13] <des2> People got tired of typing begin/end
[16:13] <drazyl> and the inflexibility of casts
[16:13] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:13] <jamesd256> my first program used lots of gotos :)
[16:13] <des2> Computed GOTOs ?
[16:14] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:14] <jamesd256> nah, i pulled them out of my arse
[16:14] <DexterLB> lol
[16:14] <Caver> real men used GOSUB
[16:14] <jamesd256> i still have panic attacks now
[16:14] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[16:14] <drazyl> real men use ld hl,1234; push hl; return;
[16:15] <Caver> actually never understood the fuss, on the BBC at least, you very quickly used functions, which are fine
[16:15] <RaTTuS|BIG> real men use hex
[16:15] <jzu> real men use switches to enter data
[16:15] <Caver> and a great introduction, for OO, classes and methods
[16:15] <RaTTuS|BIG> ^ thats just masocists
[16:15] <jamesd256> 01010101000101011011
[16:15] <Caver> RaTTuS|BIG, you mean Octal?
[16:15] <des2> 773110 (boot address for PDP 11/45)
[16:15] <jamesd256> that's how i code sh*t
[16:16] <Caver> not 000000 then?
[16:16] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:16] <Caver> how weird
[16:16] * Caver still pangs for the simplicity of the 6502
[16:16] <DJWillis> Caver: and good luck finding that simplicity ;)
[16:17] <neofutur> (17:11) <+jamesd256> my first program used lots of gotos :)
[16:17] * fdhsfdsgdsg (~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94) Quit (K-Lined)
[16:17] <des2> There are still 6502 microcontrollers
[16:17] <nuil> Caver: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Relaunched-the-6502-microprocessor-1422007.html
[16:17] <neofutur> hehe mine too, but in the eighties with BASIC . . . there was more or less no alternatives :p
[16:17] <jzu> the Apple II graphic modes were anything but simple in assembly language
[16:18] <jamesd256> z80
[16:18] <neofutur> was on an oric atmos, just in case there are other old guys here :p
[16:18] <ReggieUK> neofutur, cobol?
[16:18] <drazyl> ahhh, a left-field choice
[16:18] <jamesd256> zx81 gave me rsi in my finger tips
[16:18] <neofutur> nop, begun with basic
[16:18] <abaxas> oric atmos?.. your parents hated you.
[16:18] <neofutur> i loved my oric atmos
[16:18] <abaxas> so did oric!
[16:19] <jzu> coolest design at the time
[16:19] <neofutur> i hated my mother 10 years later when I cam back from university he she told me she threw it away to the garbage to make room . . .
[16:19] <jzu> black/red keys
[16:19] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:19] <neofutur> yup I loved the black and grey too
[16:19] <neofutur> was probably around 1981
[16:20] <neofutur> black and red, im tired
[16:20] <ReggieUK> oric smells
[16:21] <RaTTuS|BIG> ^ oric was from tangerine computers ....
[16:21] <abaxas> could have been a dragon 32
[16:21] <Caver> nuil, cool, but I've got my BBC Model B emulator thanks :)
[16:22] <Caver> Z80 pah - much too complicated!
[16:22] <Caver> way too many registers!
[16:22] <ukscone> Caver: wash your mouth out with soap z80 was the best
[16:22] <ukscone> not like the 6502 crap
[16:22] <Caver> can I confess I don't know how many registers the ARM SoC *has*?
[16:22] <Caver> nope
[16:22] <Caver> fight, fight, fight .....
[16:23] <ukscone> Z80 Z80 Z80 FTW
[16:23] <Caver> does anyone here know - and no googling :)
[16:23] <RaTTuS|BIG> 16
[16:23] <ukscone> 6502 was a kiddie processor
[16:23] <Caver> yup .. and so was I at the time
[16:23] <drazyl> wikipedia says 16
[16:23] <RaTTuS|BIG> zilog z8000
[16:23] <des2> It was the speedier 6800
[16:23] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:23] <Caver> grrr should have said no wiki as well as google!
[16:23] <ukscone> :)
[16:23] <Caver> hmm not really
[16:23] * neoinr (~robin@flp.st) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:24] <Caver> a few are dedicated like the PC isn't it?
[16:24] <RaTTuS|BIG> I did it from memory
[16:24] <drazyl> presumably pc, stack, etc
[16:24] * LowValueTarget (~LowValueT@unaffiliated/lowvaluetarget) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:24] <abaxas> originam arm 2 had 16 registers
[16:24] <Caver> so probs 13 general purpose ones?
[16:25] <rm> should have 32
[16:25] <abaxas> it depended on interrupt mode
[16:25] <rm> with good part being not really general-purpose
[16:25] * wkl (~Conan@61.135.194.124) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:25] <abaxas> if I remmber it was combined PC/status reg with 15 ones you could use
[16:26] <nuil> german project: http://hive-project.de/
[16:26] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-168-9.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:26] <drazyl> in any case it seems to be far too many for Caver :)
[16:26] <abaxas> also depends on which where swi safe
[16:26] <Caver> defo
[16:26] <abaxas> and some were banked for interripts
[16:26] <Caver> I'll stick to my python
[16:26] <abaxas> I would assume the PC status reg was somehow not the same anymore
[16:27] <abaxas> as there is arm32 not arm24
[16:27] <abaxas> but this is like ermm? 15+ years ago
[16:27] <Caver> drazyl, so ... I hope your an ace programmer, if your going to be that cheeky to me
[16:27] <abaxas> sorry?. arm26
[16:27] <drazyl> Caver I get by
[16:28] <abaxas> accorindg to my 1988 book :P
[16:28] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~nelson/courses/elec5260_6260/ARM_AssyLang.pdf
[16:28] <abaxas> bugger me
[16:28] <abaxas> book costs 14.99 in 1988
[16:28] <abaxas> this is for riscos not arthur
[16:28] <drazyl> Caver anyway you complained about the z80 having too many, not me
[16:29] <abaxas> so a bit never than the arcitechture was
[16:29] <Caver> for school kids - yes
[16:29] <Caver> context my friend, context ....
[16:29] <flibble> I was a bit freaked out when I found out my chinese mp3 player thing had a 25Mhz z80 in it, with a DSP glued on to do the audio
[16:29] <drazyl> "Caver> Z80 pah - much too complicated!
[16:29] <drazyl> <Caver> way too many registers!"
[16:29] <drazyl> no context boundaries there :)
[16:30] <Caver> in comparison to the BBC Model B being discussed at the time ... so err ... *yes*
[16:30] <drazyl> forgot your if() statement
[16:30] <abaxas> arm is designed to be a super 6502
[16:30] <Caver> nah ... your wrong, just sit there and be wrong, in your wrongness
[16:30] <drazyl> ok
[16:30] <drazyl> :)
[16:30] <abaxas> simplicty was the order of the day
[16:31] <abaxas> however conditional execution did blow people's minds for a bit
[16:31] <Caver> yeah I remember
[16:31] * abaxas feels old
[16:31] * Caver would like to point out, he did move on to a Archimedies, and yes ARM programming :)
[16:32] <abaxas> I still have my a3000
[16:32] <abaxas> doesn't work.. but still exists
[16:32] <Caver> and for a long time refused to use a PC as they were nasty architecturally :)
[16:32] <drazyl> not wrong there
[16:32] <drazyl> LIM/EMS !
[16:32] <abaxas> or the amiga owners dropping jaws at the processor speed
[16:32] <abaxas> (but not graphics)
[16:32] <Caver> heheh I've still got my very posh at the time A340 ... complete with 53Mb hard disk
[16:32] <RaTTuS|BIG> ibm-pc mode 10
[16:33] <abaxas> must have been rich
[16:33] <drazyl> mode-X
[16:33] * Kuba (~jakub@unaffiliated/kuba) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[16:33] <ReggieUK> I had a bbc b and an amiga
[16:33] <RaTTuS|BIG> my 1st HD cost me ??500 and was 50Mb for an Atari ST
[16:33] <ReggieUK> my dad had model b, 128 master, a4000 I believe
[16:34] * neoinr (~robin@flp.st) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:35] <Caver> :)
[16:35] <abaxas> the arc with it's one hardware sprite
[16:35] <abaxas> aka the mouse pointer
[16:36] <Caver> :)
[16:36] * koaschten (~koaschten@p5B3A652D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:36] <Caver> I gather RISCOS is still considered one of the OS's you can give to someone, and they can understand it in it's entirety
[16:36] <Caver> I *will* be buying a copy of the ported to RPi one for pure nostalger values :)
[16:37] <des2> No that's CP/M
[16:37] * drazyl no longer has his copy of the cp/m source code in a folder
[16:37] <Caver> CP/M didn't have a graphical side did it?
[16:37] <drazyl> not as such
[16:37] <drazyl> there was gsx
[16:37] <Caver> anyway what do you mean "no" ... I said one of, not the only one ...
[16:38] <steve_rox> hmm i miss riscos
[16:38] <jzu> what's the real meaning of that "Sessions Index" on the "Visit to RS Components" image?
[16:38] <des2> The Graphical Version was GEM
[16:38] <steve_rox> and the cheesy games on it that i cant find online
[16:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> gem ran ontop of CP/m
[16:39] * heyfriends (add4656e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.212.101.110) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[16:39] <Caver> jzu, your browser gets handed a session cookie - I imagine it's a count of them
[16:39] <Caver> heheh no source for GEM though?
[16:39] <steve_rox> when at shity scool they had a msdos emulator on one , so i used to run all the crude basic games thu it
[16:40] <steve_rox> i then did format c: , dident do as much destuction as i hoped
[16:40] <des2> Bill Gates lives and Gary Kildall is dead. No justice in the world.
[16:40] <Caver> lol
[16:41] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[16:41] <jzu> Caver: in that case I can't make sense of the units
[16:42] <drazyl> des2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_System_Extension#GSX - before GEM
[16:43] <drazyl> (I had a machine that "supported" GSX - completely useless)
[16:45] <des2> Don't remember GSX
[16:45] <drazyl> on my machine, it was effectively a set of libraries a program could load that would switch the display to a 512xsomething pixel mode and then crash
[16:46] <drazyl> not seemless, and not a GUI by any means
[16:46] <drazyl> more a way of displaying a graph if you were lucky
[16:46] <Caver> :)
[16:46] <abaxas> talking of amusing crashes
[16:47] <abaxas> my bbc once said
[16:47] <abaxas> rat at line 10
[16:47] * zag (526f17c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.111.23.197) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[16:47] <abaxas> no idea why
[16:47] <abaxas> ctrl=break pelase
[16:47] <drazyl> maybe it was
[16:48] <Caver> tis true ... PC's don't crash as well as they used too, I mean it's no fun, if it doesn't once in a while fick to a random text mode, and display a lovely grid of flashing blocks, and bleep ...
[16:48] * john______ (8ddae527@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.218.229.39) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:49] * conra (~krzysiu@ip-178-216-200-8.e24cloud.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:49] <conra> hello from poland
[16:49] * ilukester (~chatzilla@pool-98-112-16-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
[16:49] <Thorn_> hello from mars
[16:50] <ahven> well, from a little closer past, windows 95 was bluish for most of the time :P
[16:50] <conra> Thorn_: i think, youre not on mars...
[16:50] <abaxas> maybe he's sitting on one
[16:50] <Thorn_> pfft, then i think you're not from poland!
[16:51] <conra> yeah
[16:51] * bandit12 (~AndChat@178.96.210.26) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc1-hart9-2-0-cust121.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] <KaiNeR> Whats the beef?
[16:53] <steve_rox> not sure
[16:54] <abaxas> curtains?
[16:54] <Caver> eeew
[16:54] <KaiNeR> Flaps
[16:54] * abaxas is bored
[16:54] <steve_rox> curtains made outer beef?
[16:54] * maxam (~max@fedora/maxam) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:54] <KaiNeR> Yeah
[16:54] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:54] <maxam> http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1138709--35-computer-with-toronto-designed-software-sells-out-worldwide-in-minutes?bn=1
[16:54] <Caver> lol google beef curtains
[16:55] <KaiNeR> Cant beat a good set of beef curtains
[16:55] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.86.164.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:55] <steve_rox> nah i wont google that :-P
[16:55] <KaiNeR> Or piss flaps
[16:55] <Caver> well maybe over them
[16:55] <steve_rox> it may bring disturbing images :-P
[16:55] <Caver> *points at PG13* notice
[16:55] <KaiNeR> \me wants a hairy PI
[16:55] <KaiNeR> Fail
[16:55] <steve_rox> hmmm
[16:55] <des2> Google with safe search on Carver...
[16:56] <Caver> oh you know someone's going to a porno version don't you
[16:56] <steve_rox> i hate safe search :-P
[16:56] * victhor (~victhor@186.212.229.66) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[16:56] <KaiNeR> Anyone know where to buy a PI
[16:56] <steve_rox> makes everything so boring
[16:56] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[16:56] <steve_rox> mr kipling's place
[16:56] <Caver> which country are you from?
[16:56] <des2> What country KaiNeR ?
[16:56] <ReggieUK> rs or farnell KaiNeR
[16:56] <KaiNeR> Uk
[16:56] <Caver> I think Rs are going on with theirs on the 5th?
[16:56] <steve_rox> im allso from uk
[16:56] <Caver> so www.rswww.com
[16:57] <KaiNeR> Cool thanks will have a gander
[16:57] <ahven> ?The mailing list of people who wanted to be informed was over 100,000.?
[16:57] <steve_rox> kinkey
[16:57] <ahven> not a typo?
[16:57] <Gadget-Mac> RS FAQ is here http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi
[16:58] <haltdef> ooh nice, I got registered just after 6am
[16:58] * FFes (~quassel@office.admea.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:58] <Caver> hmm so over subscribed 10:1
[16:58] <steve_rox> now you just gotta hack into rs database to change the date time on when you regged interest ;-)
[16:58] <Caver> sadly
[16:58] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[16:58] * gabriel9|work (~quassel@92.241.143.37) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:58] <ukscone> steve_rox: he does make exceedingly good cakes (and pi's)
[16:59] <steve_rox> indeed :-D
[16:59] <flibble> Caver: it's why although I got up early, I wasn't counting on getting one :)
[16:59] <steve_rox> most we got was fustration from the shitty website servers
[16:59] <Caver> hehe yeah ... me too
[16:59] <Caver> got up at 5:55am damn it ...
[16:59] <Aquilus_> I registered late for that.
[16:59] <john______> I'm looking for a microusb power adaptor, there are a lot of cheap ones on amazon but, its hard to tell if they aren't just cheap knockoffs
[17:00] <flibble> i know, my body is still in shock :)
[17:00] <Thorn_> pff some of us have to get up at 6am anyway
[17:00] <steve_rox> i started at 6.45am
[17:00] * bandit12 (~AndChat@178.96.210.26) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[17:00] <Caver> eventually got a order though on farnell @ 8:02
[17:00] <steve_rox> servers were non responsive at that time
[17:00] <Aquilus_> Because of RPI tweeted that "The registered your interest page is wrong"
[17:00] <Aquilus_> >_>
[17:00] <des2> john get one made by a cell phone maker.
[17:00] <steve_rox> seems they are the most desireable item right now
[17:00] <steve_rox> and they were totally unprepared
[17:00] <flibble> Caver: well I filled in the 'expression of interest form' on rs at about 6:03, and according to faq I get to find out if that means an order later on :D
[17:00] * wkl (~Conan@61.135.194.124) Quit (Quit: wkl)
[17:00] <Caver> ditto
[17:01] <Caver> was fairly early on
[17:01] * flibble nods
[17:01] <Caver> I guess time will tell, if I get one through RS as well
[17:01] <flibble> when it was just slow and not stopped :D
[17:01] <steve_rox> eather way the launch was a disaster :-P
[17:01] <Caver> if I do, I'll cancel the farnell one
[17:01] <john______> des2, yeah I'm looking at one from motorola that does 850ma, but its like $5 shipped, so i'm wondering what are the odds it actually will work
[17:01] <des2> URL john ?
[17:01] <Caver> steve_rox, how would you have done it then?@
[17:01] <Thorn_> john______: are you a furry? that's a horribly long tail you have!
[17:02] <steve_rox> used better server setup to handle the traffic
[17:02] <flibble> steve_rox: well it was extremely well publicised, and I'm pretty sure they've sold or their stock, but a bit more info as to what the current state of play is wouldn't go amis
[17:02] <jojo> abaxas: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10ft3s7&s=5
[17:02] <KaiNeR> I registered my interest
[17:02] <steve_rox> i think i read they were sold out within 10 mins
[17:02] <john______> http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-SPN5504-SKN5004A-micro-USB-Charger/dp/B004EYSKM8/ref=sr_1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8
[17:02] <abaxas> nice rat!
[17:02] <abaxas> ta
[17:02] <Caver> nice one!!
[17:03] * smjms (~janne@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe97fb00-191.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[17:03] <steve_rox> im sure mr flibble is very cross
[17:03] <steve_rox> *glowing eyes*
[17:03] <Caver> I guess that poked a strange command into the basic program, which when ran, resulted in a trigger of off error message :)
[17:03] <john______> @thorn, you have something against tails? :)
[17:03] <flibble> Actually, does anyone actually know of anyone who got one of the first 10k yet, and not just a long preorder?
[17:03] <flibble> steve_rox: we couldn't do that? who'd clean up the mess?
[17:04] <steve_rox> hahhaha
[17:04] <steve_rox> :-)
[17:04] <Caver> ROFTL
[17:04] <Caver> Red Dwarf at it's finest
[17:04] <steve_rox> indeed
[17:04] <des2> That looks good John if it's a genuine Motorola one and not some Chinese knockoff
[17:05] <steve_rox> i have a medium sized fireaxe in my back , that sort of thing can really put a crimp on your day
[17:05] <flibble> I bought a USB to micro usb lead from poundland, and I'll butcher a spare 5V wall wart PSU into that lead :)
[17:05] <john______> des2, yeah but, its hard to tell whats genuine and i really don't wanna spend $20 to be absoultly sure ;)
[17:06] <Caver> my fave is still the scene with Kryton's eye crawling up Lyster's leg
[17:06] <flibble> hahahaha
[17:06] <abaxas> what about kryton's groin hoover attachment?
[17:06] <flibble> "I think it's making a nest"
[17:06] <Caver> both classics
[17:06] * tinyurl (~tinyurl@158.255.211.36) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:06] <steve_rox> hahaha
[17:06] <steve_rox> "im scared"
[17:07] <steve_rox> "you'r scared!?!"
[17:07] <traeak> Davespice: looks like my email, etc got ignored. it's probably all shut down.
[17:07] <steve_rox> thank fuck for classic comerdy
[17:07] <Caver> uhuh clearly memoried the lot then :)
[17:07] <steve_rox> they dont make stuff like that anymore
[17:07] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:08] <flibble> or when they do, and put it on Dave, it's cringeworthy ;)
[17:08] <Caver> nah I love them ... the early ones are better
[17:08] <KaiNeR> You cant beat the early ones
[17:08] <flibble> season 2-6 = win :)
[17:08] <KaiNeR> Game on is cool to
[17:09] <abaxas> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1o78X0BQ5k
[17:09] <tinyurl> http://tinyurl.com/cgvya7
[17:09] <KaiNeR> 1-6 IMO
[17:09] <flibble> KaiNeR: put the kettle on
[17:09] <Caver> budget of 50p and models clearly made of milk cartons
[17:09] <KaiNeR> Martin.....
[17:09] <KaiNeR> The ginger tosser
[17:09] <steve_rox> Zap, pow, kersplat, die in bed you Trojan
[17:09] <steve_rox> pig-dog
[17:09] <traeak> new ppl ?
[17:10] <conra> can tinyurl stay here? :)
[17:11] <Caver> not more bots ...
[17:11] <conra> [;
[17:11] <Thorn_> haha
[17:11] <Gadget-Mac> flibble: There are some people who have reported getting expected delivery date of the 12th March. If RS arn't expecting stock till late next week, then the 12th is realistically the earliest you could get one.
[17:11] <des2> lol. Can I bring my Pogoplug bot in ?
[17:11] <flibble> Gadget-Mac: Ah that's good
[17:11] <Gadget-Mac> des2: Only if it's battery powered
[17:12] <KaiNeR> Sounds good
[17:12] <Caver> careful you don't leave them on over night though, we don't want to come back in the morning and find baby bots
[17:12] <des2> I need to find a car battery
[17:12] <traeak> tinyurl + PiBot ?
[17:12] <traeak> !w
[17:12] <traeak> motorcycle battery should work as well
[17:13] <RaTTuS|BIG> pibot vanished yesterday
[17:13] <traeak> snowstorm
[17:13] <john______> I preorded from RS's us warehouse and was told they'd have some in two weeks, so I'm crossing my fingers
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> Gadget-Mac: Well - if you offer enough, you could get one of the beta boards from someone who bought on ebay.
[17:13] <traeak> forums still down
[17:13] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:14] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi for the later arrivers
[17:14] <tinyurl> http://tinyurl.com/7etlauj
[17:15] <RaTTuS|BIG> STFU bot
[17:15] <Caver> can we put that into the channel title?
[17:15] <des2> What's th epoint of <tinyurl> ?
[17:15] <RaTTuS|BIG> to be annoying
[17:15] <ironzorg> you don't say
[17:15] <Caver> yup
[17:15] <des2> It's not like anyone is typing the links in by hand
[17:15] <traeak> yeah i think tinyurl is redundant
[17:15] <nuil> des2: preview.tinyurl.com/7etlauj
[17:15] <Caver> most of us just click on the link in channel though
[17:16] <traeak> i copy the link but that's riht click :-p
[17:16] * acperkins (~acperkins@pdpc/supporter/student/acperkins) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[17:16] * Kuba (~jakub@unaffiliated/kuba) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:19] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@248-118.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:19] <DaQatz> pibot had that function. There is a reason it was never turned on in here
[17:21] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:21] <john______> I wish the RPI guys would turn their website back on
[17:22] <zer0her0> i wish people would stop complaining in IRC about the website being down.
[17:22] <tero> still no forum/old page?
[17:22] <RaTTuS|BIG> I wish I had a Rpi
[17:22] <ahven> no twitter either
[17:23] <zer0her0> i wish i had a RPi ???and a pony!
[17:23] <RaTTuS|BIG> rainbow pony
[17:23] <nuil> and world in peace
[17:23] <jamesd256> it's the complaining about the complaining that I'm complaining about. no one complain about my complaint, or I will complain
[17:23] <zer0her0> RaTTuS|BIG a rainbow unicorn pony!!!!
[17:23] <mjr> I wish I had a pony controlled by an RPi
[17:23] <Caver> with glitter
[17:23] <ukscone> john______: they have gone into hiding. they decided to take the preorder money and go party in rio
[17:23] <zer0her0> i can cancel my wish i want mjr's wish
[17:23] <john______> haha
[17:23] <RaTTuS|BIG> i wish I had a wish
[17:23] <zer0her0> they'll show back up hung over and strung out and asking for more money.
[17:24] <RaTTuS|BIG> on monday
[17:24] <john______> one of the news articles i read mentioned their last tweet was they were going to the bar and implied it was a long night
[17:24] <passstab> and a boat
[17:24] <flibble> fuck world peace, I want a pony
[17:24] <RaTTuS|BIG> https://twitter.com/#!/Raspberry_Pi
[17:24] <tero> well i still don't get it why is r-pi such a hype. I mean (almost) everyone here has a lot better computer then the pi
[17:24] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f662e8b-74736162.cust.telenor.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:24] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f662e8b-74736162.cust.telenor.se) Quit (Changing host)
[17:24] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:24] <Milos> I thought this was a PG13 channel
[17:24] <Milos> mind your language.
[17:24] <ukscone> john______: the pub they were going to has a brewery and still on premises so it takes a while to make them run out of alcohol
[17:24] <zer0her0> really comparing the RPi to the cost of a boxed copy of Win7 in BB, that seems like an odd comparison.
[17:25] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:25] <flibble> tero: it's the promise of a useful and usable device at a price point that's pretty much unheard of
[17:25] <john______> @tero, I'm hoping nobody reads the news articles and buys one thinking it will replace a desktop but, I'm sure a few will
[17:25] * maxam (~max@fedora/maxam) has left #raspberrypi
[17:25] <abaxas> for lots of computational tasks it could
[17:25] * flibble nods
[17:25] <mrdragons> Lol sightlight
[17:25] <zer0her0> wait???what it's not going to replace my multiple hundred dollar machine?!?
[17:25] <zer0her0> well screw that i'm out of here.
[17:25] <Caver> lol
[17:25] <nuil> dman
[17:25] <abaxas> it's penetration into the world will be dependent on if it runs flash goat porn websites
[17:26] <RaTTuS|BIG> let me google that ,.,.,
[17:26] <zer0her0> abaxas, iswydt
[17:26] <nuil> i sold my 3000$ machine to buy a rpi
[17:26] <john______> It plays x264, just need someone to encode the goat pr0n
[17:26] <zer0her0> nuil :-D
[17:26] <traeak> abaxas: you can get to goats.ex whenever you like
[17:26] <traeak> or whatever that site is
[17:26] * Kostic (~Kostic@net185-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:26] <abaxas> no point me looking at myself
[17:26] <abaxas> that would be freaky
[17:26] <nuil> now i must use my old thinkpad 380ed (pentium mmx ) :)
[17:27] <flibble> traeak: goatse.cx ... I would imagine
[17:27] <zer0her0> ahem PG-13 folks
[17:27] <traeak> flibble: pg13, it's best not to get it right (hehe)
[17:27] <Caver> no flash remember
[17:27] <mrdragons> Nah goatse is something totally different.
[17:27] <flibble> traeak: From my understanding it's not been on that URL for many years :)
[17:27] <zer0her0> now a days.
[17:27] * Kostic (~Kostic@net185-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[17:27] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:28] <nuil> y not make a rpi channel rated m?
[17:28] <abaxas> m for murder?
[17:28] <des2> filbble give up hope it's not coming back.
[17:28] <Caver> moderated
[17:28] <zer0her0> death by murder
[17:28] <KaiNeR> Midget
[17:28] <nuil> m for mustache
[17:28] <abaxas> death by midget goat and pony potn?
[17:28] <abaxas> *porn
[17:29] <nuil> :D
[17:29] <KaiNeR> Midget pr0n
[17:29] <flibble> des2: I dunno, as an introduction to biology, it's got a certain something
[17:29] * ReggieUK is now known as FreePoniesHere
[17:29] * Caver feels himself being drawn in to the screen
[17:29] <flibble> des2: that site didn't end with a full stop
[17:29] <flibble> des2: ... just a colon
[17:29] * Caver plays with FreePoniesHere
[17:30] <john______> I'm expecting to see porn in a few months, just naked women holding their RPI
[17:30] <flibble> rule 34 demands it
[17:30] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:30] <des2> Fortunately they'll only be able to be holding one.
[17:30] <Caver> ah yes, but holding it with what
[17:30] <Caver> ?
[17:31] <Caver> never mind midget porn
[17:31] <abaxas> only sofa advertisiers are allowed to show that
[17:31] <john______> rpi + webcam could make a cheap IP cam
[17:31] <steve_rox> indeed
[17:32] <steve_rox> in the wrong hands it could prove a highly intelligent bomb :-P
[17:32] <nuil> john______: i think you can connect the iphone 4 camera
[17:32] <nuil> john______: ebay sells it for 5$
[17:32] <Caver> the CSI interconnect exists
[17:32] <Caver> not sure the iphone cam is CSI though
[17:32] <Caver> (well technically CSI2)
[17:32] <john______> just need some servos for pan/tilt
[17:33] <flibble> the CSI camera interconnect allows infinite zoom of pictures and see peoples face in reflections of reflections
[17:33] <nuil> flibble: :D
[17:33] <Caver> what about Quantel and slit screen?
[17:33] <flibble> and normally has a jaunty soundtrack to distract people from the sciencey bits
[17:33] <Caver> eer
[17:33] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c50ac.dynamic.uiowa.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:33] <Caver> *split screen
[17:33] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:33] * Jeija (~Jeija@HSI-KBW-109-192-065-131.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:34] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) Quit (Quit: ??????)
[17:36] * medik (~pl0x@host-95-199-29-243.mobileonline.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:37] * selsinork (~0w0fj@foundation.darkvoyage.org.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:37] * Zilly_ (~Zilly@173-166-7-93-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:37] <Jeija> When will RS components sell raspberry pi?
[17:38] <steve_rox> just had a thought , could the pi be made into a caller ID display attached to a common BT phone
[17:38] <steve_rox> if so you could addapt it into a white list calling system
[17:38] <steve_rox> blocking common time wasteing calls
[17:38] <steve_rox> possiblity of expanding it into a online list database/shareing of blocking them all in area
[17:38] <john______> @jeija, depends how long it takes 9 year old asian boys/girls to make them
[17:39] <haltdef> usb modems maybe
[17:39] <steve_rox> open source phone ID filtering
[17:39] <steve_rox> or something
[17:39] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi Jeija
[17:39] <tinyurl> http://tinyurl.com/7etlauj
[17:39] <haltdef> is that an unauthorised bot I see
[17:40] <haltdef> also pointless
[17:40] <DaQatz> haltdef, could be
[17:40] <steve_rox> where
[17:40] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes and it's need to be nuked from orbit
[17:40] <Jeija> thanks, RaTTuS|BIG
[17:40] <RaTTuS|BIG> np
[17:40] <rely> I'm a little shocked the Rpi site is still static
[17:40] <DaQatz> Need to get pibot back up. Storms over just need the car back
[17:40] * RaTTuS|BIG humps tinyurl
[17:40] <nuil> http://tinyurl.com
[17:40] <steve_rox> i have my own irc bot used to generate image gallery based on urls said in room :-P
[17:40] * rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] <RaTTuS|BIG> there is a RPI bots channel
[17:41] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:42] <steve_rox> any other grand ideas for PI?
[17:42] <nuil> calculating PI, steve_rox
[17:42] <steve_rox> productive ones ;-)
[17:43] <drazyl> storing pi recipes
[17:43] <john______> I'm thinking motor controller with a web front end ;)
[17:43] <flibble> I'll be testing my linux port of CDE on it, once I get one (a nice low mem, low cpu testbed :D )
[17:43] <RaTTuS|BIG> tinyurl should go into #raspberrypi-bots and then getitself removed
[17:43] <DaQatz> flibble, you won't be running RISCOS on pi?
[17:44] <pdp7> fyi... just reading this which answers some questions i had about dates of orders/shipping: http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-43262/l/frequently-asked-questions-about-raspberry-pi
[17:44] <steve_rox> hmmm riscos on pi may be interesting
[17:44] <tinyurl> http://xrl.us/bmwpnq
[17:44] <Caver> they are working on it I gather
[17:44] <steve_rox> riscos seemed nice
[17:44] <RaTTuS|BIG> +b tinyurl
[17:44] <flibble> DaQatz: probably not, RISC OS 5 a) doesn't yet have usb drivers, so no keyboard/mouse b) only runs 32-bit apps, so has about 10% of the risc os software usable
[17:45] <DaQatz> Hmm
[17:45] <Caver> steve_rox, I'm going to get my Pi talking to my roomba
[17:45] <steve_rox> wonder if theres any legal issues with riscos on it
[17:45] <nuil> steve_rox: maybe start a own pios
[17:45] <DaQatz> steve_rox, it's being ported from what I know
[17:45] <flibble> steve_rox: probably only for selling it ...
[17:46] <Caver> nope I gather castle are going to be licencing it
[17:46] <hotwings> yaaaaaawn... streeeeeetch
[17:46] <steve_rox> was a really neat little OS
[17:46] <DaQatz> www.riscoscode.com/Pages/Item0113.html
[17:46] <steve_rox> userfriendly and somewhat indestructable
[17:46] <flibble> excellent, an ancient OS with no mem protection, threading, preemption, hardware independance and bugger all software is going to be sold to people!
[17:47] <Caver> yup
[17:47] <hotwings> good thing im able to "accidentally" sleep in :]
[17:47] <nuil> steve_rox: place it in a datacenter
[17:47] <Caver> and I'm going to be buying it
[17:47] <nuil> maybe i should ask my university
[17:47] <flibble> steve_rox: a nice gui, but entirely crashable, it's entire API runs in kernel mode
[17:48] <flibble> it's a car crash of an OS design that you can use as a great example of how not to write one
[17:48] <Caver> flibble, if you don't like it, feel free not to run it
[17:48] <hotwings> it contains a Linux processor, memory chips and ports for almost every plug in device you could ever need!
[17:48] <steve_rox> but it worked :-P
[17:49] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[17:49] * zear_ (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:49] <flibble> Caver: I do like it, I spend half my time writing an emulator that runs it, but that doesn't mean I can overlook it's flaws, it's *not* a particulaly good choice for the stated aims of the foundation
[17:49] <flibble> s/it's/its/
[17:49] <Caver> you wrote the emulator for??
[17:49] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:49] <Caver> an archimedies one?
[17:49] <steve_rox> wonder if we will get a mame OS :-P
[17:50] <flibble> Caver: http://www.marutan.net/rpcemu/
[17:50] <Caver> fair enough I'm going it a) cos I can b) nostalgia
[17:50] <flibble> Caver: didn't write all of it by any means :D
[17:50] <steve_rox> since OS can be changed by a SD card things seem so simple and easyer
[17:50] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:50] <flibble> Caver: but I've doen a fair bit in the last few years
[17:51] <flibble> It's not that I won't try it once it's available, it's just not what I want a Pi for
[17:51] <Caver> I think the only issue might be, a lot of teachers remembering the "good ol' days" of archimedies and going the BBC Basic route
[17:51] <Caver> nods
[17:51] <steve_rox> heh basic corrupted me
[17:51] <Caver> I just hate people dissing, other peoples fun thats all
[17:51] <steve_rox> i cant get into normal programming since basic got me :-P
[17:51] <flibble> Caver: well yeah, but basic might not be the best choice for peeps
[17:51] * srj55 (~Steve@d24-141-169-128.home.cgocable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:51] <steve_rox> damn you C64
[17:52] * Caver is sure we had this argument an hour ago
[17:52] <flibble> hehe
[17:52] <Caver> is this a 5 min or a 10 min argument?
[17:52] <flibble> oooh
[17:52] * stcuser (~Yogesh@host-76-11-181-29.newwavecomm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:52] <steve_rox> then ms came allong with vb6 , im thinking yeah i can get into that easy as hell
[17:52] * john______ (8ddae527@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.218.229.39) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[17:52] <flibble> time for home :D
[17:52] <steve_rox> ms: fuck you we are terminateing vb
[17:52] <steve_rox> end of programming for me :-P
[17:53] <flibble> steve_rox: try Brandy basic, on linux, it's bbc basic :D
[17:53] <Caver> lol
[17:53] <Caver> gbasic?
[17:53] <flibble> anyway seeya later
[17:53] <Caver> see yer
[17:53] * flibble (~peter@opal.spod.org) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[17:53] * kaltoft (~Bo@port59.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:53] <steve_rox> crazy eye glowing pengin
[17:54] <Caver> wow I chatted to a RISC OS emulator writer ....
[17:54] * Caver in awe
[17:54] <steve_rox> hehe
[17:55] * alyosha_sql (~a@88.200.57.130) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[17:55] <RaTTuS|BIG> Oo - teh RPi is in the 7day quiz on teh bbc http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17234472
[17:55] <tinyurl> http://tinyurl.com/7jatvr7
[17:55] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:56] <Caver> ahahahahah I wonder how many people here would get it correct
[17:56] <drazyl> Caver everyone should learn Forth
[17:56] <Caver> no ... they really shouldn't
[17:56] * medik (~pl0x@host-95-199-15-151.mobileonline.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:56] <drazyl> or "forth everyone learn" as we say
[17:56] <drazyl> :)
[17:56] <rm> RaTTuS|BIG, what's the point of that quiz? do you get an R Pi as a prize?
[17:57] <RaTTuS|BIG> no - just to see how much of a slacker you are ,,,#
[17:57] <ukscone> oy vey some people on element14 forums are whiney little babies :)
[17:57] <Caver> to prove you pay attention to the news
[17:57] <Caver> BBC can't give prizes
[17:57] <Kolin> yes they can
[17:57] <ukscone> if you don't follwo instrcutions you can't complain that you couldn't oreder a raspi
[17:57] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:58] <drazyl> that's so unfair!
[17:58] <Caver> Kolin, I thought the charter banned that
[17:58] * kendrick (~kendrick@50-0-12-106.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] <Kolin> possibly, they used to give away stuff on radio one all the time
[17:58] <kendrick> so, anyone get tux paint running on raspi?
[17:58] <Kolin> dunno if they syill do
[17:58] * Max_ (184472dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.68.114.221) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] <Caver> not any more ..
[17:58] * diplo (~diplo@cpc1-trow1-0-0-cust13.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:59] <Max_> Hi.
[17:59] <Aquilus_> So, how quickly can Farnell and RC build these things?
[17:59] <Kolin> 1 per minute
[17:59] <kendrick> i suppose w/ debian arm it's a moot Q
[17:59] <Aquilus_> Will be interesting to see how much they ramp up production I guess. They better not do 10000 at a time :p
[18:00] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17218662 oo
[18:00] <tinyurl> http://xrl.us/bmwpo9
[18:03] * zear_ is now known as zear
[18:03] <kendrick> http://archlinuxarm.org/arm/community/ http://packages.debian.org/stable/tuxpaint http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora-secondary/releases/14/Everything/arm/os/Packages/ -- yay!
[18:03] <tinyurl> http://xrl.us/bmwppm
[18:03] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn0EKtLOVx4
[18:03] * rely (~root@li362-167.members.linode.com) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[18:05] * mkopack (~mkopack@184-227-218-36.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:05] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:05] * jzu (~jzu@79.174.206.23) Quit (Quit: Kick out the jams, motherfuckers!)
[18:06] * Max_ (184472dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.68.114.221) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:06] * armelf_ (~luser@80.214.9.28) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:06] <Gadget-Mac> Graph of RS website traffic http://ow.ly/i/uiJC
[18:07] * MBS (~MBS@unaffiliated/mbs) Quit (Quit: Lolbye)
[18:09] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:10] <steve_rox> looks bad
[18:10] <steve_rox> so they started bombing it at 5am rather than 6
[18:11] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[18:11] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[18:13] <Gadget-Mac> I suspect the last 'good' data point is 5:30 it all gets a bit haywire after that
[18:13] * Kuba (~jakub@unaffiliated/kuba) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[18:13] * MBS (~MBS@unaffiliated/mbs) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:14] * Kuba (~jakub@unaffiliated/kuba) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:16] <drazyl> anyone received an email from RS yet?
[18:16] <traeak> uhoh
[18:16] <traeak> rs just turned on then or something?
[18:17] <traeak> the usefulness of a proper "blog" page or something on the rpi site
[18:17] <traeak> hmm
[18:18] * armelf_ (~luser@80.214.9.28) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:19] <rm> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_sp=raspberrypi-_--_-questions
[18:19] <tinyurl> http://tinyurl.com/7mt3eh6
[18:19] <rm> they have posted a faq
[18:19] <rm> and someone stfu the bot already
[18:21] <ShiftPlusOne> what bot?
[18:21] <traeak> rm: thx, now that i recall i right away filled out that form at RS. i forgot about that
[18:21] <passstab> me
[18:21] <passstab> i'm the bot
[18:21] <rm> it worries me a bit that I haven't yet received any confirmation from RS
[18:21] <ShiftPlusOne> oh
[18:21] <ShiftPlusOne> !mute passstab
[18:21] <rm> even though have signed up on 29th
[18:21] <ShiftPlusOne> dammit... don't work
[18:21] <passstab> *wimper*
[18:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o ShiftPlusOne
[18:22] <drazyl> I'm boticus!
[18:22] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has left #raspberrypi
[18:22] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[18:22] * ChanServ sets mode -o ShiftPlusOne
[18:22] <mkopack> drazyl: I got one yesterday that said this:
[18:22] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:22] <mkopack> "Dear Customer
[18:22] <mkopack> Thank you for joining the Raspberry Pi revolution and registering your interest in Raspberry Pi???s Model B board from RS Components.
[18:22] <mkopack> We have received extraordinary levels of demand for this product. To help ensure as many people as possible can experience the Raspberry Pi concept, we are limiting boards to one per customer, and we will send you further information on your request in the next seven days. Once we receive the boards into stock, they will be allocated on a first-come first-serve basis, in order of when requests were received.
[18:22] <mkopack> Thank you for your patience; we will be in touch as soon as possible with more details."
[18:23] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:23] <mkopack> Nothing else since though...
[18:23] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_mmc=UK-SM-_-RSSocial-_-Twitter-_-RaspberryPi
[18:23] <tinyurl> http://xrl.us/bmwprb
[18:23] * FreePoniesHere is now known as ReggieUK
[18:23] <drazyl> http://xrl.us/bmwprb
[18:23] <drazyl> awww, no infinite loop
[18:24] <RaTTuS|BIG> ;-p
[18:24] <ShiftPlusOne> so... since when do we have this tinyurl thing?
[18:24] <mkopack> Oh of course, the one thing they DON'T answer in that faq is whether they'll ship to US customers or if it's UK only
[18:24] <RaTTuS|BIG> since a couple of hours - can it be kicked please
[18:24] <tinyurl> i'm here!
[18:24] <tinyurl> guys!
[18:25] <ShiftPlusOne> tinyurl, hi, wtf is this?
[18:25] <traeak> ShiftPlusOne: it's another bot
[18:25] * RaTTuS|BIG slaps tinyurl with a big stick
[18:25] <tinyurl> wat?
[18:25] <tinyurl> shorts link?
[18:25] * ChanServ sets mode +o ShiftPlusOne
[18:25] <ShiftPlusOne> tinyurl, why? it's annoying people.
[18:26] <traeak> it's a dumbbot
[18:26] <tinyurl> when i see link longer than 50 char i short it
[18:26] <haltdef> it's completely pointless
[18:26] <rm> wasn't there a whole Bot Policy etc
[18:26] <ShiftPlusOne> rm, yup
[18:26] <haltdef> the link has already been pasted, tinyurl no longer needed
[18:26] <ukscone> anyone reemember the url of where nmcc's vm is?
[18:26] * tinyurl was kicked from #raspberrypi by ShiftPlusOne
[18:27] <ukscone> rm: yes there is a policy but not sure if anyone is following it
[18:27] <rm> I have a bot which posts <title> of pasted URLs
[18:27] <RaTTuS|BIG> bots channel :- #raspberrypi-bots
[18:27] <rm> but it's not on this network
[18:28] <rm> that's just an example of an actual useful feature from a bot
[18:28] * baldand_ (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:28] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:28] <lianj> depends on how he gets the desc, if its only from <title> content its not always that useful
[18:28] <ShiftPlusOne> even that annoyed people when we had that feature
[18:28] <piofcube> Problem with bots... they usually don't have an opt-in feature... If you could sendit a command to msg you with output instead of posting in the public channel, I would find the URL bot and otehrs very helpful if I'm purely in a terminal for instance
[18:29] <nuil> how about openvz on the rpi? =)
[18:29] * RaTTuS|BIG off to the pub - I may be some time
[18:29] <ShiftPlusOne> nuil, would it make sense to buy multiple pi's?
[18:29] <ShiftPlusOne> *wouldn't it make more....
[18:30] <nuil> :D
[18:30] <nuil> just trying at my 2nd dockstar
[18:30] * kilohelo (~freenode_@69.61.67.40) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[18:31] * ChanServ sets mode -o ShiftPlusOne
[18:31] <nuil> gna, there is no debian package
[18:32] <MBS> null?
[18:32] <MBS> no debian package for what
[18:32] <nuil> MBS: openvz, in the debian arm repository
[18:33] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c50ac.dynamic.uiowa.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:33] <MBS> can openvz really run that well anyway on a dockstar :|
[18:33] <nuil> i was just wondering, but, its too much work building an working openvz kernel for the dockstar
[18:34] * mpthompson_ (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.131.39.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:35] <abaxas> apart from nerd points? for got sake why?
[18:35] * fragalot (~thomas@gentoo/user/FamousToaster) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:35] <nuil> just nerd points, abaxas
[18:35] <fragalot> everyone loves nerd points
[18:35] <Calyp> indeed
[18:35] <Calyp> =)
[18:36] <nuil> hrm, why do i have 0mb of swap on my dockstar, but a swap partition
[18:36] <abaxas> swapon swapoff (karate not included)
[18:36] <fragalot> nuil: have you ENABLED the swap?
[18:36] <zgreg> http://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/qd86m/rpi_laptop_psu_help/ <-- is it that guy from the forums again? :D
[18:37] <mpthompson_> Does anyone know how to expand the Debian SD image provided by the RPi Foundation to have a larger root file system?
[18:37] <fragalot> haha voltage divider
[18:37] <jamesd256> why would you want openvz on a rpi?
[18:37] <mpthompson_> I'm using QEMU to test compile some applications and I ran out of filesystem space after installing prerequesite packages.
[18:37] <nuil> jamesd256: nerd points
[18:38] <abaxas> mpt : I'd assume you could just tar it up, repartition, mkfs and untar
[18:38] <jamesd256> it should be easy to install once you get the kernel support, and performance will be great
[18:38] <nuil> might your sarcasm
[18:38] <ShiftPlusOne> mpthompson, use gparted
[18:38] <nuil> -might
[18:38] <fragalot> mpthompson_: try these instructions: http://www.androidfanatic.com/community-forums.html?func=view&id=1610&catid=9
[18:39] <ShiftPlusOne> mpthompson, or just do what abaxas suggested... both work fine. I did it with gparted.
[18:39] <nuil> swapon: /dev/sda2: stat failed: No such File or directory
[18:39] <nuil> grr
[18:39] <ShiftPlusOne> have you tried plugging it in?
[18:40] <nuil> ShiftPlusOne: it is on my usbstick
[18:40] <mpthompson_> ShiftPlusOne, I'm looking at the gparted web page now. Thanks for the tip.
[18:40] <ShiftPlusOne> mpthompson, are you running windows or linux?
[18:40] <ShiftPlusOne> nuil, dw, I was just being a douche. =)
[18:40] <mpthompson_> I'm running QEMU under Windows, but I could get to a Linux system if needed.
[18:41] <nuil> ShiftPlusOne: got it, some odd failure, stick is mounted as sdb, but it is written as sda in fstab
[18:41] <nuil> 18:41:11 up 82 days, 8:04, 3 users, load average: 0.09, 0.08, 0.01
[18:41] <mpthompson_> ShiftPlusOne: Will gparted work directly on the image file?
[18:42] <ShiftPlusOne> mpthompson, nuh, just the sd card itself
[18:42] <fragalot> ukscone: what's a "speadsheet" (topic) ?
[18:42] <ShiftPlusOne> nuil, what's the output of 'mount'?
[18:43] <nuil> ShiftPlusOne: http://pastebin.com/FW8bYZ9r
[18:43] <mpthompson_> ShiftPlusOne: I'll RTFM and see what I can do. As a last resort, I'll resort to the mkfs and tar.
[18:43] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:43] <ShiftPlusOne> nuil, what do you mean? it's not mounted at all.
[18:44] <nuil> ShiftPlusOne: it works now, in fstab, there is written sda, but the usbstick is mounted as sdb
[18:44] <nuil> next time i will change it
[18:45] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[18:45] <ShiftPlusOne> ah yeah, just change that line, obviously... Unless you want your computer to always see the usb stuck as sda.... in which case you have to mess with udev rules and it isn't worth it.
[18:46] <nuil> ShiftPlusOne: i will just leave it as it is
[18:46] <ShiftPlusOne> mpthompson, there's not much of a manual to read, just install gparted from a linux distro, run it as root, select the sd card and go from there.
[18:46] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:46] <mkopack> I tried getting the QEMU stuff working on Ubuntu 10.10 last night but no go.. Couldn't figure out how to install "qemu-kvm-extras" which is claims it needs to do the ARM
[18:47] * baldand_ is now known as baldand
[18:47] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit ()
[18:47] <ShiftPlusOne> that doesn't sound right
[18:47] <mkopack> apt-get install qemu-kvm-extras kept complaining that the package couldn't be found
[18:47] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:47] <ShiftPlusOne> what do you get from apt-cache search qemu ?
[18:48] <mkopack> Let me fire up ubuntu and I'll check
[18:48] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has left #raspberrypi
[18:48] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:48] <mkopack> I was going off these instructions to get qemu on ubuntu 10.10 for arm: http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/02/10/emulate-an-arm-plaform-with-qemu-on-ubuntu-10-10/
[18:48] <mpthompson_> ShiftPlusOne: Yeah, I noticed the lack of a manual. I'm doing things under QEMU so I really don't have a physical SD card. I need to figure out how to fool Gparted to manipulate the mounted disk image.
[18:48] * skilz (~skilz@unaffiliated/skilz) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:49] * Branes (~rinpoche@60-241-114-101.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:49] <ShiftPlusOne> mpthompson, not sure that you can. If you don't have a physical sd card why do you need to resize anything?
[18:50] <Branes> All right, hands up the sensible bastards who suggested the first really plausible idea for the rPi yet -- putting RISCOS on it :)
[18:51] <ShiftPlusOne> Isn't riscos already on it?
[18:51] * alyosha_sql (~a@93-103-9-223.static.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:51] <mpthompson_> ShiftPlusOne: Well, the image provided by the RPi foundation is only 2Gb in size. I would like to expand it as I ran out of filesystem space installing a bunch of compilation tools.
[18:51] <ShiftPlusOne> mpthompson, you're making things difficult for yourself.
[18:52] <mkopack> Shift: Ok, well, I have qemu-arm-static, qemu-kvm-extras, qemu-kvm-extras-static all installed
[18:52] * Branes throws the ARM assembly reference manual at Shifty
[18:52] <fragalot> is it possible to use the rpi without the sd card btw?
[18:52] <mkopack> but when I go to run qemu using the instructions given for the Rpi it complains: "Unable to find CPU definition"
[18:52] <mkopack> apt-cache search qemu
[18:53] <mkopack> qemu-system-arm -M versatilepb -cpu arm1176 -m 256 -hda rootfs_debian6_rpi.ext4
[18:53] <mkopack> -kernel zImage_3.1.9 -append "root=/dev/sda" -serial stdio -redir tcp:2222::22
[18:53] <ShiftPlusOne> fragalot, yes and no. You'll need it to start the boot procedure, but you can boot from the network or a USB stuck after the initial steps
[18:53] <mpthompson_> ShiftPlusOne: That is definately a possibility. I basically need to expand the root file system on the emulated disk image for the RPi and I'm just looking for the best/quickest way to do it.
[18:53] <Dagger3> eh, no, writing the image to an SD card just to fiddle with the partitions and then dump it back off again is silly
[18:53] <Dagger3> it looks like parted works fine on files
[18:53] <fragalot> ShiftPlusOne: k, was wondering if it could be used as an embedded ARM devboard without a full blown OS
[18:54] <mkopack> Um, make a 2nd virtual disk and mount /home to it?
[18:54] <nuil> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ParadoxSurvey
[18:54] * ragna_ (~ragna@e180081083.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:54] <ShiftPlusOne> mpthompson, http://xecdesign.com/working-with-qemu/ go to Creating and modifying disks
[18:54] <ShiftPlusOne> : EXT2 then copy the files into that disk image. Change from ext2 to ext3 or whatever you prefer.
[18:54] <jojo> mpthompson_: are you booting sda2 from inside the original image, or sda after previously extracting the ext4
[18:55] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, that's because your version of qemu doesn't support that particular cpu
[18:55] <mpthompson_> ShiftPlusOne: Thanks for that link. I'm looking it over now.
[18:55] <mkopack> Hmm.. how do I fix that?
[18:55] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, you need to compile your own http://xecdesign.com/compiling-qemu/
[18:55] <mkopack> Never used this thing before
[18:56] <mkopack> argh.
[18:56] <mpthompson_> jojo: I'm using the original image and I didn't extract the ext4.
[18:56] <mkopack> ok
[18:56] <mkopack> let me give that a try
[18:57] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, there are other options, I am just saying what I would do. Alternatively you can use ukscone's VM or try to find a newer qemu version packaged from git or something.
[18:57] * ragna (~ragna@e180059033.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:57] <mkopack> Nah, let me give this a try
[18:57] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ip6-27-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:57] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, also try booting without specifying the cpu, it might work.
[18:57] * Space_Man (~space_man@87.127.156.98) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:57] <ShiftPlusOne> or try differen't "close enough" cpus.
[18:58] <Branes> Ahh, lovely, seems the London lads are already ahead of us. http://www.riscository.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/LS1125.jpg <- piccy of an rPi running RISC OS back in October.
[18:58] <ShiftPlusOne> I think if you do -cpu ? it will show the available options
[18:58] <ShiftPlusOne> Branes, told ya >=/
[18:58] <GabrialDestruir> Supposedly "For anyone who got onto Farnell before 9.30am and managed to make an order their shipping dates should be: 12 March 2012"
[18:58] <ShiftPlusOne> Branes, just wondering though, what's the appeal of RISC OS? Never used it?
[18:59] <mkopack> well, trying to run without the -cpu popped up a black QEMU window, and the console is just repeating "Uncompressing Linux???." over and over
[18:59] <Branes> a) it's not linux, b) it's not linux, and c) it's pure assembly from the ground up.
[18:59] <Branes> Stupidly wickedfast.
[18:59] * Cybernetic (184472dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.68.114.221) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:59] * mike__ (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:59] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, yup, sounds like qemu alright
[18:59] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:00] <Cybernetic> Any updated ideas on the second batch time?
[19:00] <zgreg> the issue with riscos is that it is extremely old and outdated
[19:00] <Branes> Plus, the whole shibbang, including GUI, fits in under a meg.
[19:00] <mkopack> Ok, yeah, that's the problem, I'm only seeing x86 processors in the list when I do -cpu ?
[19:00] <mkopack> Hmm
[19:00] <ShiftPlusOne> Branes, fair enough, sounds good.
[19:00] <mkopack> How the hell do you get the ARM's in there?
[19:01] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, are you running qemu-system-arm?
[19:01] <zgreg> I think there hasn't been any notable development on riscos since the early 90s?
[19:01] <jojo> mpthompson_: cache:http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/official-image-and-qemu/page-3
[19:01] <mkopack> dunno how do I tell?
[19:01] * Cybernetic (184472dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.68.114.221) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:01] <mkopack> there we go, I wasn't running that qemu...
[19:01] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:01] <mkopack> Just the basic qemu
[19:01] <mkopack> thanks!
[19:01] * mike_ (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:01] <ShiftPlusOne> getting closer
[19:02] <Branes> Sorry greggy, development has been active for a long long time; it's been estimated that something like 60% of all European TV set-top boxes use RISC OS.
[19:02] * mike_ is now known as Guest12039
[19:02] <mkopack> Ah crap. that version still doesn't have arm1176 in it though
[19:02] * swiley_ (~swiley@7.sub-75-192-237.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:02] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, and which kernel are you running anyway?
[19:02] * swiley (~swiley@87.sub-75-197-73.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:02] * swiley_ is now known as swiley
[19:02] <mkopack> Shift: Host or inside QeMU?
[19:02] <chris_99> anyone got an email from RS?
[19:03] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, guest
[19:03] <mkopack> chris_99: I got one yesterday
[19:03] <haltdef> not got mine yet
[19:03] <zgreg> Branes: hm, odd. that must have happened way below the rard of most nerds.
[19:03] <haltdef> starting to wonder if my reg didn't get through
[19:03] <skilz> I'm installing NetBSD on my rpi =D
[19:03] <chris_99> me neither and i think i registered pretty early
[19:03] <zgreg> Branes: I guess it's still in no way comparable to a modern unix?
[19:03] <mkopack> Shift: The 3.1.9 one that was already modded for QEMU found on the page here: http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/02/18/raspberry-pi-releases-1st-sd-card-image-debian-how-to-use-it-in-the-emulator/
[19:04] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, good =)
[19:04] <mkopack> They had directions on how to spin your own, and there's also a link to one already converted
[19:04] <mkopack> I'm using the already converted one.
[19:04] <mkopack> So it sounds like I just need to figure out how to get the cpu support in my qemu
[19:04] <Branes> zgreg: Indeed. Bare=metal enthusiasts the lot of 'em. Piss C and all the other languages off, you work with hex and a choice of three rather efficient ASM IDEs.
[19:05] <zgreg> Branes: that sounds absolutely backwards, sorry
[19:05] <mkopack> chris_99: the email I got said the following: "Thank you for joining the Raspberry Pi revolution and registering your interest in Raspberry Pi???s Model B board from RS Components.
[19:05] <mkopack> We have received extraordinary levels of demand for this product. To help ensure as many people as possible can experience the Raspberry Pi concept, we are limiting boards to one per customer, and we will send you further information on your request in the next seven days. Once we receive the boards into stock, they will be allocated on a first-come first-serve basis, in order of when requests were received.
[19:05] <mkopack> Thank you for your patience; we will be in touch as soon as possible with more details."
[19:06] <mkopack> Basially just need to wait. All the registering for interest forms we filled out were time stamped and we'll be given the option to purchase in the order which we submitted the form??? I submitted like at 0601 GMT that morning.
[19:06] <chris_99> i thought i did around then too, tbh
[19:06] <mkopack> check spam folder?
[19:06] <ShiftPlusOne> I didn't get anything from RS either
[19:07] <mpthompson_> jojo: Thanks for the link. Took me a few minutes how to bring it up under Google cache, but it looks to be exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.
[19:07] <Branes> ARM nerds are all hard nerds, zgreg -- if you can't hand-optimise your ASM routines to get a simultaneous 10% reduction in codebase size and a corresponding 10% improvement in performance, you're not worthy :D
[19:07] <chris_99> nope nothing in spam either
[19:07] <zgreg> Branes: I mean, it's an interesting OS no doubt, but not very useful
[19:07] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: it's a conspiracy. a conspiracy i tells ya
[19:07] <Branes> Pfft.
[19:07] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: discrimination against aussies and ex-pats
[19:08] <ShiftPlusOne> must be
[19:09] * stcuser (~Yogesh@host-76-11-181-29.newwavecomm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:09] <Branes> I think I'm going to need to sit down with some Coopers and the techrefs for the video subsystem implementation of the rPi soon. Major kudos to the first of us who can get Newton OS running on one :D
[19:09] * stcuser (~Yogesh@50.44.200.186) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:09] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c50ac.dynamic.uiowa.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:09] <ShiftPlusOne> what techrefs?
[19:10] <Branes> There bloody well better be some, if not now then soon.
[19:10] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: and then there are some people complaining on a couple of forums that they went to the website today and couldn't buy one now -- the fact they didn't follow the instructions doesn't matter they just went now for the first time and couldn't buy so it was trickery by the foundation
[19:10] <Branes> Bugger me if I'm going to sit there with my CRO and trace signals for a week :)
[19:11] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, formatting is a bit better on this page... more readable... http://raspi.springnote.com/pages/8235788
[19:11] <mkopack> thanks???
[19:12] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, sounds like this channel when it went live... we had almost 500 people I think... many of them complaining and making things up on the spot.
[19:12] <Tobias|> Just under, ShiftPlusOne
[19:13] <Tobias|> Shame we didn't break 500 :)
[19:13] <ShiftPlusOne> I believe there were suggestions to ddos the whitehouse website as protest. O_o
[19:13] <Tobias|> Still, the channel's since grown (was averaging significantly less before release)
[19:13] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, went from 270 people to 390
[19:14] <zgreg> what's a bit strange at the moment... the website is *still* not back, and no news on twitter since yesterday
[19:14] <zgreg> actually, no news since two days ago
[19:15] <mkopack> Yeah, they've gone VERY dark
[19:15] <jamesd256> zgreg: it must all be a hoax
[19:15] <jamesd256> there is no rpi
[19:15] <ShiftPlusOne> It's all holograms
[19:15] <jojo> hm, farnell have made it pretty difficult now to get to the product without prereg interception
[19:15] <mkopack> I can appreciate them wanting to take a little break, and wait for the traffic to the website to die down before switching back to the full site with forums, but this is a bit insane.. you'd think they'd at least reappear to answer some questions or something
[19:15] <jojo> crazy "raspbrry-chipset" still available though :/
[19:15] * The_Ball (~The_Ball@122.150.108.38) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[19:15] <mkopack> They're probably worried about the amount of negative BITCHING they're going to receive
[19:15] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:15] * Kushykins is now known as Kushan
[19:16] <zgreg> mkopack: heh
[19:16] <zgreg> well, maybe
[19:16] <jamesd256> they must still be getting a ddos from all those 'checking back'
[19:16] * Matthew is now known as Guest66362
[19:16] * Guest66362 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:16] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:16] <zgreg> there are going to be two camps
[19:16] <ShiftPlusOne> team edward and team jacob?
[19:16] <mkopack> UGH
[19:16] <DataSpree> lol
[19:17] <mkopack> Shift: I can't believe you just said that!
[19:17] <nuil> :D
[19:17] <zgreg> one camp that shouts "YOU FUCKED UP!", and the other extreme that says "YOU DID GREAT!"
[19:17] <ShiftPlusOne> lol
[19:17] <mkopack> Well, as usual, reality is somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes
[19:17] <zgreg> and the truth is somewhere in the middle
[19:17] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, you're right, team moral mike all the way.
[19:17] <nuil> zgreg: you forgot one, "you did great, but the others failed"
[19:17] <ukscone> Tobias|: we did have over 500 for a while but not sure how many bots
[19:17] <zgreg> nuil: oh, yeah
[19:17] <mkopack> They did some things that were very positive, and in some ways they kinda dropped the ball (although a vast majority of this goes on the distribs)
[19:17] <Tobias|> Hmmm
[19:18] <zgreg> nuil: of course it's ALL the distributors fault - a bit one-sided, isn't it?
[19:18] <ukscone> Tobias|: when i first checked about 1:30 theere were 509 in channel
[19:18] * Christian7 (~christian@89.187.143.47) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:18] <mkopack> uk: Yeha, that was WILD! couldn't even real a post without it scrolling off the screen!
[19:18] * Christian6 (~christian@p57A3D4F8.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[19:19] <ukscone> mkopack: i just left the window open and read a book
[19:19] <ShiftPlusOne> which book?
[19:19] <mkopack> hehe, I just got fed up with the whole thing and went back to bed...
[19:19] <nuil> zgreg: ok, "you did GREAT hardware, but the distribution couldn't be worse
[19:20] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: a mystery -- http://www.lorrainebartlett.com/lorraine/walledflower.html
[19:20] <zgreg> we don't know yet if the hardware is great, it might be full of problems. :)
[19:20] <Tobias|> I won't hold it against them given it's raspberrypi's first release
[19:20] <Tobias|> Anything else I'd expect something better though
[19:20] <nuil> zgreg: :D
[19:21] <ukscone> Tobias|: yes they made some mistakes but 90% of the problems were caused by farnell & rs
[19:21] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c50ac.dynamic.uiowa.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:22] <mkopack> it was just a lot of miscommunication and badly coordinated release in general
[19:22] <hotwings> pointing fingers doesnt help.. the rpi guys are learning how and how not to do business. its a process and theyre going to experience some growing pains.
[19:22] <ukscone> the major one by the foundation was not insisting rs & farnell test their servers first and also checking that they were following the terms of the contract\
[19:23] <hotwings> we dont need to place blame for all the mistakes, and continuously rake rs, farnell, and rpi over the coals about it for the next 3 months
[19:23] <ukscone> they warned them but assumed they knew what they were doing which rs and farnell didn't
[19:23] <mkopack> I'm sure a lot of it was the distributors, but Rpi really should have done a "soft" release with them a couple hours in advance to make sure that everything was set up both for UK+international, and given better directions on how to order since it was so different than what we had been led to believe up until that point.
[19:23] <Tobias|> There's no way RS/Farnell could've moved quickly enough to cope with that demand
[19:23] <hotwings> _everybody_ dropped the ball... case closed
[19:24] <nuil> Rpi should produce 10k, and give the first batch to amazon
[19:24] <hotwings> i would love that since i get amazon orders usually next day
[19:24] <ukscone> Tobias|: they could have mitigated a lot of problems though not solved them but a bit of forethought might not have goner amiss and the rs to uk comapnaies only problem, no way to buy in the usa initially..... shoudl have been corrected before going live
[19:24] <nuil> and the infrastucture is much better
[19:24] <ukscone> that caused more hits than were really needed
[19:26] <zgreg> yeah, lots of searches hit the servers really hard
[19:26] <zgreg> a direct link to the product would have reduced load a lot
[19:26] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:27] <ukscone> zgreg: actually having it listed in their affiliate stores would have helped too -- newark didn't have it listed until 9am EST
[19:27] <zgreg> also, the general confusion was extreme, it wasn't clear how and where to buy exactly at the start
[19:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[19:27] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host13-46-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:27] <zgreg> especially for people in countries without a farnell branch
[19:28] <DataSpree> zgreg: using export.farnell.com seemed obvious to me
[19:28] <ukscone> rs was like that too -- their usa affiliate didn't have it listed until i think yesterday
[19:28] <zgreg> "just search on their sites"... at first I thought that was a JOKE
[19:28] <Kushan> I'm still waiting/hoping RS contacts me
[19:28] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-168-9.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has left #raspberrypi
[19:28] <Kushan> I "registered my interest" at like 06:02 so I have no idea where I stand on a Pi
[19:28] <zgreg> DataSpree: how should that be obvious if you don't know farnell?
[19:28] <ReggieUK> don't stand on pi
[19:29] <nuil> Kushan: im waiting too
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> Kushan: carefully
[19:29] <ReggieUK> you'll get sticky feet
[19:29] <Kushan> =P
[19:29] <DataSpree> when you go to farnell for the first time it says pick a country and then it says: "Cant find the country you're looking for visit our export site"
[19:29] <DataSpree> it's the first thing you see
[19:29] <DataSpree> how can people not understand that?!
[19:30] <ukscone> DataSpree: you are correct except for the fact that for a lot of people it timed out
[19:30] <mpthompson> jojo: Thanks again for the link. It was exactly the information I needed. Expanding the image worked perfectly.
[19:31] <ukscone> DataSpree: and everyone knows that really for farnell if you are not in the uk you go to element14 or newark
[19:31] <ukscone> not in uk but in asia or usa that is
[19:32] <jojo> everyone also knows that e14 refuse to sell to individuals in some countries
[19:32] <nuil> ukscone: i orderd mine at farnell germany
[19:32] <ukscone> nuil: yes you have a de site
[19:32] <Kushan> farnell went down for me within seconds
[19:32] <nuil> ukscone: but they only sell to buisness
[19:32] * IT_Sean has the very large urge to tip this server out a very high window.
[19:32] <ukscone> for usa you are sent to newark or element14 normally
[19:32] * mkopack (~mkopack@184-227-218-36.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[19:32] <ukscone> same as for rs you are sent to allid.....
[19:32] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:33] <ukscone> IT_Sean: 5th floor, 6th or 7th?
[19:33] <IT_Sean> sadly, my office is only a 2 story building.
[19:33] <ukscone> i suggest the 6th as servers are like cats and can land on their feet 5th and below and 7th and above
[19:34] <nuil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40szm5mF21Y
[19:34] <nuil> IT_Sean: second floor is enough
[19:34] <IT_Sean> Now... if only our windows openend :/
[19:35] * Christian8 (~christian@p57A3D4F8.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:35] <ukscone> IT_Sean: judicious use of a 20pound sledgehammer will fix that
[19:35] <ShiftPlusOne> 'night
[19:35] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:36] <IT_Sean> ukscone: think the company shotgun, loaded with a deer slug, would be sufficient to dispatch this pile of crap?
[19:36] <nuil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRCfo-eTj8k WTF
[19:36] <ukscone> IT_Sean: can't hurt to try it
[19:36] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.86.164.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[19:36] <ukscone> worst that'll happen is you'll need to do it several times
[19:37] * Christian7 (~christian@89.187.143.47) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[19:37] * swiley (~swiley@7.sub-75-192-237.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzzz)
[19:42] * swiley (~swiley@7.sub-75-192-237.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:45] * Cracknel (~cracknel@109.96.191.83) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:45] * Cracknel (~cracknel@109.96.191.83) Quit (Changing host)
[19:45] * Cracknel (~cracknel@unaffiliated/cracknel) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:47] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-178-28.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] * EastLight (t@5ad024c8.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:51] * EastLight (t@5ad024c8.bb.sky.com) has left #raspberrypi
[19:53] * DaFox_ (~DaFox@S0106001839cfa51a.ss.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:53] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-lnoivlshmxcjonzi) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:53] * DaFox_ (~DaFox@S0106001839cfa51a.ss.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002129016166.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:54] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[19:54] * chinkley (~LowValueT@vpn-us.firehost.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] * chinkley (~LowValueT@vpn-us.firehost.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:56] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-lnoivlshmxcjonzi) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:56] * Cracknel (~cracknel@unaffiliated/cracknel) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:58] * LowValueTarget (~LowValueT@unaffiliated/lowvaluetarget) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:00] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-178-28.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:00] * ppo2 (~ppo2@199.15.113.24) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:00] * ppo2 (~ppo2@199.15.113.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:01] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-178-28.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:01] <mrdragons> Hmm, should I "register my interest" with fernell or RS?
[20:02] <Kushan> Both!
[20:02] <Kushan> Give your custom to whoever contacts you first
[20:03] * Branes (~rinpoche@60-241-114-101.static.tpgi.com.au) has left #raspberrypi
[20:03] <Simon-> farnell let you preorder...
[20:04] <fakker> ^
[20:04] <fakker> and give you an actual date of when it may be shipped
[20:04] <fakker> or, week commencing
[20:04] <jojo> they make it hard though, now
[20:04] * lollipopp (~quassel@p3EE2D8FA.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:04] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c50ac.dynamic.uiowa.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] <fakker> farnell emailed me a link
[20:06] <Aquilus_> Really? I tried registering my interest with farnell. Didn't get anything.
[20:07] <Kushan> Yeah I've had nothing from Farnell, but RS sent me an email saying they'd be in touch on a first-come-first-serve basis
[20:08] * mpthompson_ (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.131.39.81) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[20:08] * mpthompson (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.131.39.81) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[20:09] <hotwings> emailed you a link for what fakker?
[20:11] * Cory (~Cory@unaffiliated/cory) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[20:11] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:11] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.87.5) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:11] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:12] <ukscone> just emailed liz and she says that the hits have been going down steadily today so she expects to be up by most likely saturday evening, maybe as long as sunday morning but hopefully sooner if the hits keep going down
[20:13] * AdnyH (~musus_fre@82-69-0-3.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:14] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:14] * AdnyH (~musus_fre@82-69-0-3.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[20:15] * jimbib (~jimbib@cpc1-stav10-0-0-cust101.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:18] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:20] <ukscone> heh just got an express interest email from RS
[20:20] <ukscone> the only problem is that it is in spanish :)
[20:20] <nuil> hrm
[20:20] <nuil> :D
[20:20] <nuil> translate.google.com
[20:21] <ukscone> dunno why they think i'd be able to read it
[20:21] <hotwings> spam
[20:21] <conra> http://www.microsofttranslator.com/
[20:21] <nuil> your name?
[20:21] <ukscone> especially as i registered with my old uk address
[20:21] <rm> where is my email
[20:21] <rm> that is the question
[20:21] <ukscone> nuil: many russell's in spain?
[20:21] <nuil> rm: ,1
[20:21] <conra> question we ended with "?"
[20:22] <nuil> ukscone: donno
[20:23] <Simon-> RS haven't sent me any email at all
[20:24] <ukscone> Simon-: i would guess they send them in order of the interest being expressed or maybe alphabetical withing country or maybe they just threw a dart at a list of email addresses
[20:24] <nuil> i need definitely more space on my desk
[20:25] <[deXter]> Eeew, Microsoft Translator? :/
[20:25] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:25] <jojo> are rs taking preorders or just selling the first batch ?
[20:26] <nuil> jojo: afaik first batch
[20:27] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:28] <PiKeY> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi&file=questions&cm_sp=raspberrypi-_--_-questions
[20:28] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:29] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:29] * kdnewton (~waggy@S01060c607607263d.ok.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:30] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has left #raspberrypi
[20:30] <chris_99> it's 7:30 uk time, they've still not sent out all the emails yet, guess theres time yet
[20:30] * baldand_ (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:31] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:31] <jojo> seems odd that neither distributor is trying to gauge demand for model A
[20:31] <nuil> chris_99: its a job, they start it, and then every mail will sent automatically
[20:31] <chris_99> seems rather slow then heh
[20:31] <nuil> rpi needed also 2days for 100k mails
[20:32] <chris_99> just fire up an EC2 cluster, job done
[20:32] <ksx4system> how do I add myself to RPi mirrors list? I'd like to host SD card image(s)
[20:35] <PiKeY> chris_99 i not had my mail yet either, i registered with both personal and work account to make sure (diff email addys)
[20:36] <chris_99> i think maybe it'll be later than today then
[20:36] * Billiard (~jordan@CPE-69-76-57-60.new.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:36] <PiKeY> lets hope so as i didn`t pre order with farnell
[20:37] <chris_99> can you not still pre-order with farnell?
[20:37] <fragalot> nope
[20:37] * baldand_ is now known as baldand
[20:37] <fragalot> I can't receive emails from farnell atm
[20:38] <chris_99> i'm trying out the RS chat
[20:38] <chris_99> it says they're busy atm though
[20:38] <fragalot> placed an order for components a few hours ago and haven't received my confirmtion email
[20:39] <fragalot> live tech support doesn't seem to work for me either
[20:39] <fragalot> meh, aslong as the actual order arrives...
[20:40] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:40] * srj55 (~Steve@d24-141-169-128.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:41] * srj55 (~Steve@d24-141-169-128.home.cgocable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:42] <ukscone> jojo: yeah it's the A i am more interested in.
[20:43] <chris_99> how come?
[20:43] <nuil> where is the list with working usb psu
[20:44] * AlGaib (~AlGaib@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] <kkolev> hey guys, did anyone else get nothing via the mailing list?
[20:45] <chris_99> yup
[20:45] <IT_Sean> yes.
[20:46] <kkolev> I kinda feel cheated, when they said they'd inform the list subscribers first
[20:46] * nirokato (~nirokato@unaffiliated/nirokato) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:46] <nuil> kkolev: checked spam folder?
[20:46] <kkolev> yup, nothing there
[20:46] <nuil> mine was in spam
[20:46] <kkolev> although I might have signed a non-main mail account for the list (quite unlikely)
[20:47] <kkolev> do we have any rumours on when the second batch will roll in?
[20:47] <kkolev> ballpark, that is - weeks/months/quarter?
[20:47] <kkolev> probably too early to tell, though...
[20:48] <piofcube> I guess batches will be sent out once they have enough to fill a large shipping crate
[20:48] * nirokato (~nirokato@76.178.181.95) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:48] <ukscone> kkolev: did you get an email on the 27th?
[20:48] * nirokato (~nirokato@76.178.181.95) Quit (Changing host)
[20:48] * nirokato (~nirokato@unaffiliated/nirokato) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:48] <kkolev> let me fire up a non-smartphone mail client to check all the accounts...
[20:48] * Revo (~rich@p2pbsh.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:48] <ukscone> some people assumed they'd get one on the 29th but it was the one on the 27th that was the we are selling email
[20:49] <piofcube> Feb27th here... was in spam folder...
[20:49] <kkolev> hm, it's the right account, and nothing newer than Jan 2
[20:49] <Simon-> ukscone: probably all three
[20:50] <ukscone> kkolev: although sending 100k+ emails at once does cause the blacklisting services to go nuts and of course some get lost -- i got at least 3 on 3 different email service types, gmail, selfhosted and isp and ppl in bosnia, australia, france... i checked with got tyhem too
[20:50] <Simon-> what IP are they connecting from?
[20:50] <kkolev> ukscone: gmail here, but no biggie
[20:50] <piofcube> But I only got one copy... I.. erm... had subcribed with 3 email addresses but only the first account I sub'ed with got the email
[20:50] * AndyJS (~AJ@unaffiliated/andyjs) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] <kkolev> welp, I'm out
[20:52] * kkolev (~kkolev_ir@kkolev.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:52] <ukscone> Simon-: they were coming from sphinx.mythic-beasts
[20:52] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:53] <ukscone> none (sphinx.mythic-beasts.com: domain of info@raspberrypi.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=93.93.130.44 envelope-from=info@raspberrypi.org helo=sphinx.mythic-beasts.com
[20:53] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:53] <jojo> sphinx is not the machine that matters for most purposes, it is haggis
[20:53] * Jeija (~Jeija@HSI-KBW-109-192-065-131.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[20:54] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:54] <Simon-> erm, not rpi - RS
[20:54] * xeba (~xeba@187.113.54.117) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:54] * kilohelo (~freenode_@69.61.67.40) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:54] * kallisti5 (~kallisti5@discord.unixzen.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:55] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@248-118.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[20:55] <mkopack> ok??? so??? now I just got an email from Newark/Element14 saying "Ok, you can preorder now???" Clicking the button takes me to a shopping cart with the RPi added??? And it's showing "Expected to Ship Apr 3, 2012" WTF? I've ALREADY ordered and that one is expected ship date May 10!!!!
[20:56] <jojo> that is because the lead time on the website is estimated 30 days
[20:56] <jojo> but they update that by email after you order
[20:56] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <mkopack> so, if I was to put in this 2nd order the date would come back later than May 10?
[20:56] <neofutur> what a wonderful java website and distributor
[20:56] * dormant (~dormant@d54C3679D.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <mkopack> (in the confirmation email...)
[20:56] <neofutur> I just stoped trying :p
[20:57] <mkopack> Nothing wrong with JSP based sites or Java
[20:57] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:57] <neofutur> sure
[20:57] <mkopack> they just weren't set up to handle this sort of load.
[20:57] <mkopack> You can be sure that we've pounded both distributor's sites harder than they've probably ever experienced
[20:57] <jojo> i think the dates on past and future orders are still subject to a lot of change before shipping
[20:57] <neofutur> I wont even try to argue
[20:58] <mkopack> Oh, I'm sure??? all depends on how fast they can ramp up the production
[20:58] <jojo> but i would be surprised if they did not ultimately ship in order, at least within each country
[20:58] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] * Edek (~Edek@5357E55B.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:59] <jojo> ukscone: or did you mean that you received the mail directly from sphinx? i did not
[20:59] <hotwings> [11:56:04] <mkopack> so, if I was to put in this 2nd order the date would come back later than May 10? <-- give it a try and see what happens
[21:00] <hotwings> you can always cancel your order
[21:00] * AlGaib (~AlGaib@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[21:01] <mkopack> true.. except I can't remember wtf my newark account info is on this computer! LOL
[21:01] <hotwings> if you dont want to, i will. no biggie
[21:01] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.87.5) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:01] <hotwings> that is, if you want to send me the link
[21:01] <mkopack> I'm also worried they might cancel a 2nd order...
[21:01] <mkopack> but guess it doesn't hurt to try...
[21:02] <mkopack> their site is MAJORLY slow right now??? everyone must have gotten the email at the same time
[21:02] <kyzz> hows it goin
[21:02] * AlGaib (~AlGaib@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:02] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:02] <hotwings> i signed up for that notice as well but havent gotten any email
[21:04] * swiley (~swiley@7.sub-75-192-237.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:08] <PiKeY> pre orders open on Farnell again then
[21:09] <PiKeY> no email from rs so worth a shot i spose
[21:09] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:10] <mkopack> Well, the site is SUPER slow right now??? and stupid me clicked the button like 4 times, so it was showing 4 RPi's in the basket for $140! So trying to update the number down to 1...
[21:10] <IT_Sean> Heh
[21:10] <IT_Sean> you masterclicked.
[21:11] <mkopack> lol
[21:11] <mkopack> man, yeah, they're hammered on their server??? it just did a Gateway Timeout on me!
[21:12] <PiKeY> if i pre order on farnell now when does payment leave my card??
[21:12] <GabrialDestruir> Using the rPi as an answering machine? =\
[21:12] <mkopack> Who knows! Usually in the US, they aren't allowed to charge until they're ready to ship
[21:13] * binaryjam (~yaaic@host86-145-210-185.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:13] * AlGaib (~AlGaib@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[21:14] <xeba> whats this Carrier Account Number ?
[21:14] <xeba> :3
[21:15] * binaryjam (~yaaic@host86-145-210-185.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:15] <jzaw> [20:12:00] <mkopack> Who knows! Usually in the US, they aren't allowed to charge until they're ready to ship
[21:15] <jzaw> ive always found the same in the UK
[21:15] <PiKeY> think i`ll just wait till monday & put on company account :)
[21:15] <jzaw> PiKeY: you in the UK?
[21:16] * Out`Of`Control (~Viper@unaffiliated/outofcontrol/x-1373891) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:16] <PiKeY> yes m8
[21:16] <jzaw> moi ausi
[21:16] <PiKeY> still waitin for my rs email :(
[21:16] <fakker> me too
[21:17] <PiKeY> 2 diff email addys as well
[21:17] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] <PiKeY> sux
[21:17] <jzaw> im still not calm after the severe pissing off i got 6am the other day
[21:17] <fakker> haha
[21:17] <fakker> me either, wankers
[21:17] * cosner (~cosner@host86-147-252-172.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:17] <fakker> i could have stayed in bed for another hour
[21:17] * neofutur (~neofutur@mtgox/staff/pdpc.student.ne0futur) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[21:17] * Xark_ is surprised the main site is still not back up (but not that surprised). :)
[21:17] <jzaw> im sure its been discussed to death here
[21:17] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-178-28.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:17] * AlGaib (~yaaic@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:18] <fakker> it was just a kick in the balls when BBC morning news did a piece on it
[21:18] <jzaw> but neither farnel nor rs are the first ppl i think of when i want a robust webpage
[21:18] <fakker> while i was trying to order
[21:18] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[21:18] <jzaw> neither page loaded for me for over 6 hours !!!!
[21:18] <PiKeY> rs website sux on a good day
[21:19] * swiley (~swiley@143.sub-75-243-228.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] * AlGaib (~yaaic@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:19] <PiKeY> i have to us it for work and searching it is soooo backwards
[21:19] <PiKeY> always reach for the catalouges
[21:19] <jzaw> what rubbed salt in the wound was that we saw US users getting their orders through grrr
[21:19] * xeba (~xeba@187.113.54.117) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:19] <fakker> i'm not too far from Cambridge
[21:19] <mkopack> jzaw: yeah, well, it was no picnic for us either ya know!
[21:19] <PiKeY> and farnell selling out, i didn`t even get on to their site
[21:20] <ReggieUK> gooooooood grief, are people still whining?
[21:20] <mkopack> We had to hunt to even figure out WTF we were supposed to be ordering from since the 2 sites they linked to said "UK Only"
[21:20] <Xark_> jzaw: So did you finally get an estimated delivery date? I got May 12th (US Newark). :)
[21:20] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:20] <jzaw> hehe mkopack 1% sucess for US users is still 100% more sucess than for UK users
[21:20] <jzaw> ;)
[21:21] * xeba`away (~xeba@187.113.54.117) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] <jzaw> no such luck for me yet Xark_
[21:21] <mkopack> jzaw: well, it is what it is??? in a couple weeks we'll all be laughing about it or not even discussing it as people start getting their RPi's....
[21:21] <jzaw> still waiting for notice
[21:21] * AlGaib (~yaaic@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[21:21] <jzaw> i wonder how many victims of RPi-rage there'll be ? ;)
[21:22] <Xark_> jzaw: It was pretty confusing. I filled out several "register interest" forms before I found a "working" pre-order link on a forum (I just order last night).
[21:22] <ReggieUK> mkopack, nah, people will still be bitter at someone getting one before they did, because they're better for x,y,z reason and it was a,b,c's fault
[21:22] <jzaw> ppl traced by their ip (here for instance) and have a visit from disgruntled developers who never got one
[21:22] <GabrialDestruir> I'm still waiting for farnell to get back to me about the apparent differences between shipping dates.
[21:22] <odt> im not getting one, because its too popular
[21:22] <odt> its the next apple, without the profit margin
[21:22] <GabrialDestruir> What with some people who ordered later supposedly getting their's first.
[21:22] * kilohelo (~freenode_@69.61.67.40) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:23] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Keyword is supposedly. I suspect all the dates are wild guesses ATM...
[21:23] <mkopack> ok, order went through!
[21:23] <jzaw> many would say it was a fiasco ... but it was a PR coup! for the foundation
[21:23] <GabrialDestruir> I honestly think what might of happened is all related to the mass orders of the scalpers.
[21:23] <mkopack> Waiting on confirmation email!
[21:24] <GabrialDestruir> They ordered a bunch and everything got "sold out"
[21:24] <mkopack> yeah, it was like trying to get concert tickets to a 1 time only showing of some reunion of a mega popular band or something
[21:24] <GabrialDestruir> they allocated stock for people like me... only ordering 2 hours later, but then they fixed the buck like several hours later.
[21:24] <Xark_> jzaw: I think it went better than many similar projects (depending on your perspective). Thinking of Open Pandora (but they may ship more any day...) and CrunchPad. :)
[21:24] <GabrialDestruir> the bug*
[21:25] * jzaw nods Xark_
[21:25] <GabrialDestruir> But then they didn't bother to update all the people who already had "allocated stock", then comes along people ordering at a later date, and they get all that just freed up stock.
[21:25] <jzaw> doesnt help that i desparately need at least 3 for some home security and home automation stuff i want to do
[21:25] <jzaw> oh and one for play
[21:25] * AlGaib (~yaaic@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:26] <ReggieUK> how many people also ordered more than one even though we all knew they were limited to 1 per person?
[21:26] <jzaw> not i
[21:26] <Xark_> jzaw: Hehe, sounds like a bit of a wait. I may break down and get a BeagleBoard if I get to anxious. :)
[21:26] <mrdragons> "Desparately need" lol
[21:26] * AlGaib (~yaaic@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:26] <GabrialDestruir> A bunch of people ordered more than one, in here alone there was claims of people ordering 5 or 6 or 12 or 2 or 4 etc.
[21:27] <GabrialDestruir> Farnell manually went and fixed all those though.
[21:27] <jzaw> Xark_: over the last couple of years ive reduced the home _computer_ wattage from about 1Kw continous to about 200 during the day and 250 at night (when the infra reds come on)
[21:27] <GabrialDestruir> without fixing all the people around those orders, I'm sure.
[21:27] <ReggieUK> they did fix them but the point is that it was extra load ontop of the extra load they already had
[21:28] <jzaw> i recon 2 of these RPi's will allow me to drop another 60w approx
[21:28] <traeak> jzaw: same here. i no longer have a full desktop, a couple of netbooks and a couple of tablets, that's it
[21:28] <PiKeY> me 2, nas drive hosts most of my stuff + tablets & phone
[21:28] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-178-28.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:29] <jzaw> anyone looking for a low wattage soho server ... look at the hp microserver (even better if you catch the regular ??100 cashback offer hp almost always have)
[21:29] <mkopack> um??? no comment :) Let's just say my electric company loves me
[21:29] <GabrialDestruir> Heh... we have one computer in our house that runs constantly, I use to leave my MEdaCenter computer on constantly too, but I'm hoping a Pi can replace that.
[21:30] <jzaw> i just got an N40L to replace my old sever and so far im very impressed
[21:30] * Xark_ is waiting for affordable solid-state TB drives - it is the server noise that bothers me (more than power).
[21:30] <jzaw> hehe the N40L is near silent
[21:30] <jzaw> but its in the loft anyway
[21:31] <GabrialDestruir> TB SSD... lol
[21:31] <jzaw> it could be concorde taking off i wouldnt hear it in its server cab
[21:31] <mkopack> My house, running 24/7: Dell color laser MFP, Mac Pro, Mac mini, Drobo, Airport Extreme, 10 port switch???.
[21:31] <GabrialDestruir> I think you could probably wait another decade before that's "affordable"
[21:31] <jzaw> hows the drobo mkopack ?
[21:31] <mkopack> Ok, 2nd order confirmation w/ship date received??? 2nd unit ships on the 14th of May
[21:32] <DDave> from which site?
[21:32] <Xark_> jzaw: I have some server "hand me down" caviar black drives, nice but very loud. That is what I hear (more than the PS noise with a good case).
[21:32] <jzaw> as an automatic raid box ... is there any advantage over a small low watt computer running say s/w md raid ?
[21:32] <jzaw> ahhh caviar black nice
[21:32] <mkopack> jzaw: It was a bit painful initially figuring out how to set it up??? You REALLY gotta follow their directions to the letter??? So I screwed up the first install and had to redo evyerthing from scratch. Once I did, it's been solid ever since.
[21:32] <jzaw> i tend to use slower wd greens
[21:32] <mkopack> DDave: Newark
[21:33] <mkopack> jzaw: well, the nice thing is that I can mix and match drives. They don't have to be the same size
[21:33] <Xark_> jzaw: Those are good too (and nicely cooler and quieter).
[21:33] <jzaw> mkopack: i watched some youtube vids on the drobo ... seems pretty easy but is it really that reliable / robust ?
[21:33] <PiKeY> greens def slow :(
[21:33] <mkopack> The drobo is pretty damn silent and it's been reliable so far
[21:33] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if I could order a second one from newark, since I already ordered from export
[21:33] <PiKeY> quiet tho which is good
[21:33] <mkopack> I know 4 people with them and nobody has had a problem yet.
[21:34] <jzaw> Xark_: run cool but i do think they are somewhat significantly slower
[21:34] <hotwings> i have some of those wd greens in my media server.. works great
[21:34] <jzaw> ive got a md0 of two 2TB and i dont get much more than 140MB/s
[21:34] <Xark_> jzaw: Yeah, they are, but for home use that is probably a good trade off.
[21:34] <jzaw> infact quite a bit less mostly
[21:35] <jzaw> indeed ... speed vs watts
[21:35] <mkopack> DDave: I had ordered one on release day by going directly to the link to the product on Newarks site. I just got an email a little while ago telling me I could now pre-order (because I had also filled out the stupid "express interest" form) and so I went ahead and did it and got a 2nd unit ordered.
[21:35] <jzaw> i went for low watts
[21:35] <DDave> mkopack: thx
[21:35] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-178-28.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Quit: // FIXME)
[21:35] <mkopack> If they cancel one, it won't be the end of the world???.
[21:36] <jzaw> btw Xark_ did you de-widdle them?
[21:36] * The_Ball (~The_Ball@122.150.108.38) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:36] <jzaw> they park their heads every 8 secs ... you could easily wear out their head park count
[21:36] <hotwings> i just checked my email.. still no email from their from the 'express interest' form... but there was a papa john's coupon sitting in there
[21:36] <Xark_> jzaw: Hmm, not familiar with that term, so probably not. :)
[21:37] <PiKeY> farnell site (uk) down again :(
[21:37] <jzaw> http://idle3-tools.sourceforge.net/
[21:37] <jzaw> Xark_: ^^^^
[21:37] <PiKeY> jzaw is that for the greens?
[21:37] <jzaw> its wd idle ... but often gets pronounced widdle ;)
[21:37] <GabrialDestruir> I didn't realize Raspmc had it's own website... lol
[21:37] <jzaw> PiKeY: yes greens ... in my case wd20ears
[21:38] <jzaw> head parking is one of the energy saving methods ... but at about 8 secs its too agressive
[21:38] <Xark_> jzaw: Hmm, that page looks familiar but I don't think I have fiddled with these drives (but I am pretty sure they don't spin down too much).
[21:38] <PiKeY> yer i got WD20EARX had to rma a ears
[21:38] <mkopack> hotwing: YUM! Papa Johns! :)
[21:39] <PiKeY> wat does it do for the drive ?
[21:39] <mkopack> Although I've turned into more of a Mellow Mushroom fan
[21:39] <jzaw> might affect the earx too ... you should check
[21:39] <PiKeY> extend life?
[21:39] <mkopack> Dammit, now I'm gonna want pizza for dinner!
[21:39] <jzaw> headparking ? .... not really
[21:39] <PiKeY> i have seens something about it on synology forum but didn`t follow it up
[21:39] <mkopack> crap, that reminds me, I need to get a new UPS for my Drobo+Mac mini.. the old one crapped out on me
[21:39] <Xark_> jzaw: Yeah, that is worth looking into. Thanks. IIRC, you had to adjust some of these drives initially or the idle didn't "play-nice" with Linux (I seem to recall something like that several years ago).
[21:39] <jzaw> when parked the voice coil that moves the head arm is denergised ... ie not using power
[21:39] <mkopack> don't know if it's the unit or the battery pack
[21:40] <mkopack> it was a low end APC unit anyhow
[21:40] <Gadget-Mac> mkopack, get in touch with Andy the UPS Man
[21:40] <Gadget-Mac> http://www.upsman.co.uk/
[21:40] <jzaw> PiKeY: but if you imagine it is capable (and i did hear them do it) of parking every 8 secs ... click ... click ... click
[21:41] <mkopack> Gadget: Y?
[21:41] * kilohelo (~freenode_@69.61.67.40) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:41] <jzaw> it soon wears out the x-hundered thousand parks that it has before fail
[21:41] <mkopack> oh??? I'm in the US. I can find places here to get it
[21:41] <Gadget-Mac> Ah, ok , the joys of irc :)
[21:41] <jzaw> of course im talking in a server installation where its on 24/7/365
[21:41] <mkopack> thanks though!
[21:41] <jzaw> lo Gadget-Mac
[21:41] <Gadget-Mac> If you were in the UK, he does some stonking deals
[21:42] <Gadget-Mac> jzaw: stop following me ;)
[21:42] <mkopack> I'll just had ego take the old unit over to batteries plus and have them check the battery??? They'll have replacements on hand (probably jacked up in price, but still easier than buying a whole new unit
[21:42] <jzaw> twas you who followed me :P
[21:43] <PiKeY> mine is in nas which is on 24/7, just lookin in to it now :)
[21:43] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ip6-27-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:44] <jzaw> can you ssh to the nas PiKeY ?
[21:44] <nuil> oh, i better do not tell what is 24/7 online, at my home
[21:44] <PiKeY> yes
[21:44] <jzaw> maybe ....
[21:44] <jzaw> http://idle3-tools.sourceforge.net/
[21:44] <jzaw> ooops
[21:44] <jzaw> $ sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda | grep "^193"
[21:45] <jzaw> you may have to do as i did which is take it out and connect it to a different computer
[21:45] * luther07 (~mark@206.221.127.34) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:46] * Xark_ finds this mildly interesting "/KILL Allied Electronics" -> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/kill-allied-electronics-2012-03-02
[21:48] * hopsy (20027@ninthfloor.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:48] * hopsy (20027@ninthfloor.org) has left #raspberrypi
[21:49] <mkopack> lol
[21:50] <mkopack> Rather interesting....
[21:50] <mkopack> That's the US RS subsidiary
[21:50] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if their site actually died when that announcement was made >.>
[21:51] <mkopack> get DDOSed.. lol
[21:51] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder when allied's will go on sale, and if it'd get here before farnells... lol
[21:52] * SSgtSpoon|work (~SSgtSpoon@c-174-54-83-119.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:53] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-91-41.as43234.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:53] <mkopack> Gabr: all depends on their production rate, and number of pre-orders and your spot in line...
[21:53] <nuil> still no email
[21:53] <nuil> 2h left
[21:54] <GabrialDestruir> I heard all that crap with Farnell, and they screwed up big time xD
[21:54] * Xark_ notes now is the time to start gathering accessories for your Rasp Pi. You can start with this (I dare you): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Custom-case-Raspberry-Pi-Model-B-professional-Recycled-/290677470826?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item43adba366a
[21:54] <mkopack> lol!
[21:54] <DDave> "
[21:54] <DDave> Unlike the Raspberry Pi Model B, this container was made in a British manufacturing facility."
[21:54] <nuil> :D
[21:54] <DDave> :DDDD
[21:54] <GabrialDestruir> Someones trolling xD
[21:55] <GabrialDestruir> The sad thing is....
[21:55] <GabrialDestruir> there's actually 6 bids for it
[21:55] * stefanrvo (~stefan@80.165.145.220) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:56] * sgmac (~esegalv@CBL217-132-100-190.bb.netvision.net.il) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:57] <mkopack> wow, just was looking at my SD cards??? the one in my camera is a 4GB??? CLASS 2!!! NO WONDER it's so GD slow between shots!
[21:57] <GabrialDestruir> everyone should go F5 Allied >.>
[21:57] <GabrialDestruir> See if their servers handle the load better
[21:57] * Xark_ likes the Q&A with questions about which health warning is on the pack (an important concern in a Rasp Pi case). :)
[21:58] <GabrialDestruir> Indeed.
[21:58] <IT_Sean> No traffic attacks, gents.
[21:58] <GabrialDestruir> Oh fine.
[21:59] <GabrialDestruir> Why do people think this thing has wifi?
[22:00] <IT_Sean> Because peopel are too bloody stupid to reat the FAQ
[22:00] <IT_Sean> *read
[22:00] <IT_Sean> **people
[22:00] <GabrialDestruir> But the first task for the next generation of Zuckerbergs and Bill Gateses could be to build a new website for the product, after the current page crashed under the weight of demand. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2108045/Raspberry-Pi--Could-tiny-PC-help-Britain-Mark-Zuckerberg.html#ixzz1nzm9ib7M
[22:00] <Tobias|> I wouldn't mind if a model C popped up which implemented wifi instead of ethernet
[22:01] <IT_Sean> It would add A LOT to the cost.
[22:01] <GabrialDestruir> My lord.... they compared it to a crystal radio set....
[22:01] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[22:01] <mkopack> Gabriel: and some web + TV reports incorrectly said it did
[22:01] * Xark_ is not sure he wants to read Daily Mail after their recent terrible Pi article ("compatible with Windows, Macintosh and Linux software")...
[22:01] <Tobias|> In the order of, IT_Sean?
[22:02] * sgmac (~esegalv@CBL217-132-100-190.bb.netvision.net.il) has left #raspberrypi
[22:02] <Tobias|> Model B implements little (nothing?) more than ethernet for $10
[22:02] * rely (~root@li362-167.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:02] <smw> Tobias|, and twice the ram
[22:02] <Xark_> Tobias|: Ethernet and a 2nd USB port is it.
[22:02] <GabrialDestruir> Technically... in a sense, it is compatible with Windows, Macintosh, and Linux.....
[22:02] <smw> Tobias|, but yes, that is correct
[22:02] <Tobias|> False, smw
[22:02] <GabrialDestruir> just not their software
[22:02] <Xark_> smw: No, same RAM (announced yesterday)
[22:02] <mkopack> what was that command on linux to get the info about your SD card (specifically what class it is? )
[22:02] <mrdragons> Oh cool, the daily fail reported on this.
[22:02] <Tobias|> Model A's design now has 256MB smw
[22:02] <smw> Xark_, eh?!
[22:03] <smw> :-|
[22:03] <Xark_> smw: Yes, surprise announcment. 256MB for all!
[22:03] <smw> well... that is a good thing :-)
[22:03] <IT_Sean> Tobias|: adding wifi would be a lot more expensive than adding ethernet
[22:03] <Tobias|> mrdragons: news.com.au said the r-pi has a "linux processor"
[22:03] <mrdragons> XD
[22:03] <Tobias|> IT_Sean: right, but how much more expensive?
[22:03] <Xark_> smw: Totally, 96MB is not enough for Linux (after GPU takes 32MB).
[22:03] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@dhcpw267c50ac.dynamic.uiowa.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:03] <smw> Xark_, agreed
[22:03] <nuil> Xark_: for an X started version
[22:04] <IT_Sean> Tobias|: I don't have an exact figure, but, it would be several times the purchase price of the B
[22:04] <Xark_> nuil: Right, for a desktop (I ran Linux on 8MB 386 - but that was a bit different than what people are expecting these days). :)
[22:04] <fragalot> IT_Sean: especially since you can get $30 wifi dongles anyway
[22:04] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2082556/The-pocket-sized-16-gizmo-turns-television-PC.html
[22:04] <GabrialDestruir> that article makes my brain hurt
[22:04] <Tobias|> fragalot: you can get $2 wifi dongles
[22:04] <fragalot> Tobias|: I meant the ones that work
[22:04] <GabrialDestruir> The finished article will look more like a finger-sized USB stick, and will plug into the back of any television to turn it into a PC. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2082556/The-pocket-sized-16-gizmo-turns-television-PC.html#ixzz1nznHvEJy
[22:04] <IT_Sean> It's a lot more than a dongle, gents.
[22:05] <Xark_> IT_Sean: I suspect most of the cost is for licenses. :)
[22:05] <GabrialDestruir> Yea, that's what one of their articles on the blog was saying.
[22:05] <smw> Tobias|, Model B has 2 usb ports
[22:05] <IT_Sean> I wish i had the time to debate this with you, but, i have a lot of work to do in the next hour, before i leave work for the weekend. I'd love to argue with you about it later, though. :)
[22:05] <GabrialDestruir> Licensing is keeping this thing from being even cheaper.
[22:05] <IT_Sean> and Xark_ hit the nail on the head.
[22:05] <nuil> Xark_: i know, i'm running linux on a p mmx
[22:06] <smw> so it is $10 for another USB port and ethernet
[22:06] <fragalot> IT_Sean: I know it's a whole lot more work than that to add it to the actual board.. I'm just saying this is a viable alternative.
[22:06] <IT_Sean> fragalot: technically, it is viable. It would jjust be bloody expensive.
[22:06] <fragalot> IT_Sean: with viable, I did mean $ wise :P
[22:06] <GabrialDestruir> If you want a good solution for wifi.... build my friggin dream case...
[22:06] <GabrialDestruir> then you'd be good.
[22:07] <Xark_> nuil: "Classic". :)
[22:07] <GabrialDestruir> With a proper design you could turn a Model A into a "Model C"
[22:07] <fragalot> IT_Sean: does the rpi offer audio over hdmi btw?
[22:08] <Xark_> fragalot: yes.
[22:08] <fragalot> Epic.
[22:08] <IT_Sean> fragalot: i THINK so, yes.
[22:08] <Xark_> fragalot: Supposedly 8 channels (but CPU must decode - no biggie).
[22:08] * baldand_ (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:08] <GabrialDestruir> It's HDMI 1.3a
[22:08] <fragalot> IT_Sean: I know of many cases where the hw supports it, yet i've never managed to get it to work :P (my laptop & desktop both have this problem)
[22:08] <GabrialDestruir> which is suppose to have Audio via HDMI
[22:08] * Binman_ (5ac900c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.201.0.199) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:08] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:08] <fragalot> GabrialDestruir: kewl
[22:08] <Tobias|> I'd like to set up a PoE splitter/transformer in my own r-pi case some time, GabrialDestruir
[22:08] * baldand_ is now known as baldand
[22:08] <fragalot> can't wait for the next set of batches so i can get one
[22:09] <nuil> Xark_: no ethernet, no usb, no wlan, only cd, 80mb of ram, 166mhz, 5.1gb, but a pretty good display
[22:09] <Xark_> Tobias|: I read some discussion of that on the forums. It sounded kind of tricky to "do right" (not as simple as putting power on some Ethernet pins).
[22:09] <GabrialDestruir> A computer without interwebz?!?!? That's sacrilege! >.>
[22:10] <nuil> :D
[22:10] <Xark_> nuil: What do you use it for?
[22:10] * [1]des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-32-28.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:10] <nuil> nerd points :D
[22:10] * EricAndrews (~EricAndre@dsl-173-248-194-125.acanac.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:10] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[22:10] <nuil> it has serial and a floppy drive
[22:10] <nuil> NATIVE
[22:10] <Xark_> nuil: Ahh. :)
[22:10] <jzaw> [21:09:14] <GabrialDestruir> A computer without interwebz?!?!? That's sacrilege! >.>
[22:10] <jzaw> not really a computer is it ? ;)
[22:10] <fragalot> I bet if I had an rpi the same thing would happen that happened to me with my old bigass massive old ATX tower
[22:11] <fragalot> I literally LOST that one for a while
[22:11] * MrWatson (~MrW@184.53.134.111) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:11] <fragalot> it worked.. i used it for irssi & screen... but i had absolutely no idea where it was >.<
[22:11] <fragalot> neglected updating the kernel for years because i was afraid it'd panic, lol
[22:12] <nuil> Xark_: http://thinkwiki.de/images/1/1d/380ED_hinten.jpg
[22:12] <Simon-> basic PoE is simple if you only want 10/100
[22:12] <GabrialDestruir> It's honestly a bit ridiculous what passes for computers these days...., now days every computer has at least SOME way to connect to the internet.... and if they don't they're worthless to society...
[22:13] <jzaw> Simon-: not a problem for the RPi then
[22:13] <nuil> btw, i have a pcmcia wlan & lan card
[22:13] <GabrialDestruir> I think a majority of the computing world spends more time in a browser, or chat client, than they do anything that actually runs on the computer.
[22:13] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-38-13.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[22:13] * [1]des2 is now known as des2
[22:13] <Tobias|> The browser doesn't run on the computer, GabrialDestruir? :p
[22:13] <Xark_> nuil: Ahh a portable. I used a POS 4MB 386-SX Thinkpad for many years as a "SSH terminal" (it had a nice keyboard and it could emulate an Apple ][ at about 1:1 speed). :)
[22:13] <GabrialDestruir> Technicality.
[22:13] <fragalot> GabrialDestruir: welcome to cloud computing :P
[22:14] <fragalot> there's one thing i'm really interested in trying out on the rpi
[22:14] <fragalot> point of sale systems
[22:14] <GabrialDestruir> The browser runs on the computer, but the things in the browser, the websites, peoples obsessions, and dreams, and hopes.....
[22:14] <GabrialDestruir> are all outside their own computer
[22:14] <nuil> fragalot: oh yes
[22:14] <zabomber> fragalot: you and about 20000 other people...
[22:14] <fragalot> zabomber: the other 20000 people don't need 7 asap :P
[22:14] <nuil> fragalot: oh no, i thought you are saying scale
[22:14] <zabomber> lol!
[22:15] <fragalot> well when I say "asap", I mean by the end of march
[22:15] <fragalot> lol
[22:15] <nuil> i will sell you my option at rs for 100$+
[22:15] <nuil> :D
[22:15] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:15] * swiley (~swiley@143.sub-75-243-228.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzzz)
[22:16] <fragalot> nuil: for 7 of them? ok. :P
[22:16] <GabrialDestruir> I'm actually a bit surprised that computers haven't started degrading to the point where all they do is internet .-.
[22:16] <Xark_> nuil: Ah, the Rasp Pi secondary commodity market...
[22:16] <fragalot> GabrialDestruir: google is working on that.
[22:16] <IT_Sean> Google is evil, though.
[22:16] <GabrialDestruir> Well chrome OS yea....
[22:16] <nuil> fragalot: i have one in uk (about 6:05) and one in germany (8:00)
[22:16] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Hang on, Windows 8 (or 9) is coming. :)
[22:16] <fragalot> IT_Sean: Most large IT corporations are
[22:16] <GabrialDestruir> But that has it's time and place.
[22:16] <mkopack> Yeah, that's coming
[22:16] <mkopack> And to be honest, for many people's use cases that's all that's really needed anymore
[22:17] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Or I guess Chromebook is poster child for that. :)
[22:17] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if Hexxeh will be able to get ChromeOS running epically on the Pi >.>
[22:17] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] * strigel (51aefaee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.250.238) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:17] <GabrialDestruir> then you could just mod together a case with a keyboard/mouse/screen and you have a Chromebook cheaper than what's on the market.
[22:17] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[22:17] <Hexxeh> Working on it.
[22:18] <fragalot> anyone know roughly when the rpi site is coming back online
[22:18] <GabrialDestruir> After they stop getting 100k hits per hour?
[22:18] <nuil> i heard about saturday evening, sunday morning
[22:18] <fragalot> damn you all for making me all excited >.>
[22:18] <ukscone> fragalot: liz says by tomorrow evening if not soooner but as long as sunday morning
[22:18] <fragalot> ukscone: Cool ^_^
[22:18] <ukscone> sunday if she is still doing well in skyrim
[22:19] <fragalot> epic work btw :) surprised the server coped
[22:19] <ukscone> or there is an interesting book in the library
[22:19] <fragalot> haha
[22:19] <GabrialDestruir> It really didn't have to do a lot of coping displaying only a static page...
[22:20] <GabrialDestruir> but apparently some websites are claiming the RPi site went down.
[22:20] <bolosaur> HOLY FRICK!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:20] <bolosaur> HAS THE RASPBERRYPI BEEN RELEASED???
[22:20] <fragalot> GabrialDestruir: some websites also claim it's got wifi onboard
[22:20] <ReggieUK> in your pants by the looks of it bolosaur
[22:20] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:20] <IT_Sean> bolosaur: ... ... ...
[22:20] <GabrialDestruir> You're about several days late :p
[22:20] <IT_Sean> you missed it by half a week.
[22:20] <bolosaur> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[22:20] <Xark_> bolosaur: Depends on your definition, but pretty much yes. :)
[22:20] <fragalot> rofl
[22:21] <bolosaur> Sorry maybe I missed all the TWEETS about it.
[22:21] <bolosaur> My bad!
[22:21] * ReggieUK is now known as ShinyHappyPonies
[22:21] <Xark_> bolosaur: If you order now, you can get one in April or May. :)
[22:21] <bolosaur> Dang bro.
[22:21] <mrdragons> bolosaur: ...
[22:21] <bolosaur> I'm STOKED.
[22:21] <fragalot> I've only used twitter twice in my life
[22:21] <bolosaur> fragalot: Exactly my point. I don't care if I'm late by a few days. :P
[22:21] <Binman_> As a total noob who may or may not be welcome here how would I utilise the RaspberryPi to code and while I'm waiting for the queues to go down so I can order what languages can I learn?
[22:21] <strigel> I saw a fat nerd type rofl next to me at an internet cafe. He wasn't even smiling
[22:21] <ShinyHappyPonies> ponies will be available throughout q2 2012
[22:21] <fragalot> to look at rpi's account getting hammered by tweets, and to laugh at "noteslate"
[22:21] <bolosaur> strigel: That was me.
[22:21] <GabrialDestruir> I'm still waiting for farnell to get back to me about the apparent shipping discrepancies they're having
[22:22] <strigel> lololol - there's another one
[22:22] <strigel> laughing out laughing out loud? really?
[22:22] <bolosaur> Man i'm STOKED.
[22:22] <bolosaur> aaaa
[22:22] <bolosaur> Has anyone received one yet?
[22:22] <fragalot> Binman_: most languages should work on the rpi, easiest one would be python
[22:22] <mkopack> bolosaur: No??? they're still waiting on them to arrive from China to the UK
[22:22] <Xark_> Binman_: It is a Linux computer pretty much like others. Just cheaper, smaller and (probably) a bit slower. What kinds of things are you interested to do with computers? Programming?
[22:23] <bolosaur> mkopack: Alright, cool.
[22:23] <Binman_> Thanks fragalot and xark
[22:23] <stefanrvo> Anybody else who still hasn't got an email from RS?
[22:23] <bolosaur> Anybody know which DEs that are gonna work OK with it?
[22:23] <Binman_> And yes programming :D
[22:23] <fragalot> stefanrvo: o/
[22:23] <bolosaur> I'm not big on Linux.
[22:23] <nuil> stefanrvo: jep
[22:23] <bolosaur> XFCE only?
[22:23] <fragalot> stefanrvo: even the order confirmation for something else hasn't come trough yet
[22:23] <GabrialDestruir> I got an email from RS saying 'We acknowledge your expressed interest....."
[22:23] <strigel> bolosaur: what do you want to program? games? websites? phone apps?
[22:23] <Xark_> bolosaur: I belive LXDE and XFCE are supported.
[22:23] <fragalot> I think something went sideways at their end... very sideways, lol.
[22:23] <bolosaur> strigel: I don't want to program anything.
[22:23] <bolosaur> I thoguht it worked like a PC.
[22:23] <bolosaur> thought*
[22:23] <fragalot> bolosaur: it does
[22:24] <strigel> sorry, binman
[22:24] <bolosaur> I want to ducttape it to the back of my TV and use as a media station and WiFi hotspot.
[22:24] <GabrialDestruir> Thank you for joining the Raspberry Pi revolution and registering your interest in Raspberry Pi???s Model B board from RS Components.
[22:24] <GabrialDestruir> We have received extraordinary levels of demand for this product. To help ensure as many people as possible can experience the Raspberry Pi concept, we are limiting boards to one per customer, and we will send you further information on your request in the next seven days. Once we receive the boards into stock, they will be allocated on a first-come first-serve basis, in order of when requests were received.
[22:24] <fragalot> bolosaur: it doesn't have onboard wifi so you'll need to add that via a usb dongle
[22:24] <Xark_> Binman_: Well, plenty of programming options on Rasp Pi. However, nothing that magically makes it much different (however, common spec is helpful since no doubt there will be lots of tutorials etc. soon).
[22:24] <GabrialDestruir> Thank you for your patience; we will be in touch as soon as possible with more details.
[22:24] <bolosaur> fragalot: Alright. I thought the expensive version would have WiFi.
[22:24] <fragalot> nope
[22:24] * NIN102 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] <ShinyHappyPonies> can't you just pastebin that crap GabrialDestruir?
[22:25] <bolosaur> Also OK Xark_.
[22:25] <Xark_> Binman_: You will be in good company learning on Rasp Pi I suspect. :)
[22:25] <bolosaur> fragalot: Well, I can live with using a dongle.
[22:25] <fragalot> lol farnell is down again
[22:25] <bolosaur> Dang.
[22:25] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose I could have.
[22:25] <GabrialDestruir> Yes.
[22:25] <bolosaur> I'll return in a few months when they've started shipping then. :)
[22:25] * bergertwit (~bergertwi@50.29.215.208.res-cmts.blo.ptd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:25] <bolosaur> aaaa I'm stoked
[22:25] * bergertwit (~bergertwi@50.29.215.208.res-cmts.blo.ptd.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:25] <Iota> Hi stoked.
[22:25] <bolosaur> IM FRIPPIN STOKED.
[22:25] <strigel> get stoked in May when you get a rpi
[22:25] <acfrazier> may 10th
[22:25] <stefanrvo> Ok, well I'll just have to wait and hope one of my registrations went through.. (don't know how many i submitted, i was kind of in a panic state at the time :P )
[22:25] <bolosaur> dude
[22:25] <acfrazier> :(
[22:25] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@248-118.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:25] <bolosaur> im going to count the days
[22:26] <IT_Sean> bolosaur: the Model B has ethernet. There is NO raspi with wifi.
[22:26] <GabrialDestruir> Personally I found Farnell's "Please ensure you have adequate virus protection before you open or detach any documents from this transmission. The Company does not accept any liability for viruses." to be funny
[22:26] <bolosaur> IT_Sean: Ah, that explains it.
[22:26] <acfrazier> lol what
[22:26] * futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:26] <IT_Sean> You can ADD wifi via a USB dongle. The same goes for Bluetooth.
[22:26] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[22:26] <bolosaur> yeah
[22:26] <bolosaur> man im going to soil my pants.
[22:26] <bolosaur> im pippin' stoked
[22:27] <IT_Sean> That is disgusting.
[22:27] <Xark_> bolosaur: TMI
[22:27] <bolosaur> im pumped and juiced
[22:27] <bolosaur> i can feel my muscles growing
[22:27] <IT_Sean> okay... we get it...
[22:27] <bolosaur> and my power increasing
[22:27] <bolosaur> im bulking up.
[22:27] <GabrialDestruir> I'm telling ya, the way to go is a custom built RPi hub with built in wifi, bt, whatever.
[22:27] <acfrazier> lol there's someone named pippin in here
[22:27] <mrdragons> ._.
[22:27] <GabrialDestruir> IT'S OVER 9,000!
[22:27] <GabrialDestruir> Zomg!?!?!? WHAT?!?!?!
[22:27] <Binman_> Thanks xark. I found a helpful load of tutorials to set up a VM which works in (hopefully) exactly the same way so I can mess around :D
[22:27] <nuil> ARAH, load average: 8.24, 6.82, 4.19
[22:27] <bolosaur> acfrazier haha
[22:27] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: ?
[22:27] <[deXter]> Peregrin Took, stop hiding!
[22:28] <GabrialDestruir> idk, the crap bolosaur was saying made me think of one of those DBZ scenes
[22:28] <Xark_> :)
[22:28] <GabrialDestruir> Where the character is grunting and glowing and his muscles start bulging and crap.
[22:28] * AlGaib (~yaaic@199-7-156-43.eng.wind.ca) Quit (Quit: I'm out)
[22:28] <bolosaur> Yes.
[22:28] * swiley (~swiley@143.sub-75-243-228.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:28] <Tobias|> you mean the entire episode GabrialDestruir?
[22:28] <bolosaur> That is pretty much what I'm doing right now.
[22:28] * selsinork (~0w0fj@foundation.darkvoyage.org.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[22:28] <mrdragons> Sounds like a porno.
[22:29] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] * ChanServ sets mode +o PiBot
[22:29] <GabrialDestruir> Well more like 90% of the entire show
[22:29] <GabrialDestruir> yea
[22:29] <bolosaur> I'm grunting and pumping my glistening muscles.
[22:29] <bolosaur> I'm delighted.
[22:29] <bolosaur> And stoked.
[22:29] <strigel> it's getting a bit home-erotic in here
[22:29] <nuil> exit
[22:29] <nuil> exit
[22:29] <nuil> get out of my terminal
[22:29] <Tobias|> :<
[22:29] * Tobias| leaves your terminal
[22:29] <GabrialDestruir> I bet if you took out all the "Power up scenes" from DBZ you could watch the entire show in like..... two days
[22:29] <ShinyHappyPonies> not for me it's not
[22:29] <nuil> thank you
[22:30] <Iota> xD
[22:30] <jzaw> [21:28:53] <strigel> it's getting a bit home-erotic in here
[22:30] <jzaw> nothing domestic about it ;)
[22:30] <DaQatz> PiBot is operational again
[22:30] <IT_Sean> DaQatz: awesome
[22:30] <IT_Sean> thanks
[22:30] <GabrialDestruir> So is PiBot running on Pi?
[22:30] <GabrialDestruir> Or No?
[22:30] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[22:30] <mrdragons> How'd he break?
[22:30] <bolosaur> Alright, I just want to go on record here and say that I'm frickin pumped!!!!!
[22:30] <IT_Sean> bolosaur: WE BLOODY KNOW.
[22:30] <DaQatz> GabrialDestruir, nope
[22:30] <Xark_> bolosaur: Yeah, but are you stoked? :)
[22:31] <bolosaur> YES
[22:31] <DaQatz> GabrialDestruir, I don't have a pi yet
[22:31] <bolosaur> I ALREADY TOLD YOU SO
[22:31] <bolosaur> IM FRIGGIN STOKED!!!
[22:31] <GabrialDestruir> Are you bulging?
[22:31] <bolosaur> No.
[22:31] <strigel> can you keep it going til may?
[22:31] <DaQatz> GabrialDestruir, PiBot is on a low end mini itx system though
[22:31] <bolosaur> Yes man
[22:31] <bolosaur> I've been stoked about the OpenPandora for like 5 years
[22:31] <bolosaur> so I think I can hold out until May
[22:31] <Xark_> !w
[22:31] <bolosaur> IT_Sean: Are you british?
[22:31] <DaQatz> Pandora will be out in may?
[22:31] <DaQatz> That's a long time coming
[22:32] <bolosaur> DaQatz: No but the Pi will arrive by then I take it.
[22:32] <Xark_> DaQatz: Last I checked there wasn't a hard date...
[22:32] * LowValueTarget (~LowValueT@unaffiliated/lowvaluetarget) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:32] * PiBot sets mode +v LowValueTarget
[22:32] <GabrialDestruir> I should Virtualize ChromeOS.... see how much it's changed since a couple years ago
[22:32] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[22:33] <Binman_> I know this is goanna sound really dumb but can I make games on and for the RPi?
[22:33] * futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: futurity)
[22:33] <strigel> i don't see the point of chromeOS
[22:33] <stefanrvo> @Binman_: Yeah
[22:33] <fragalot> Binman_: should work fine :)
[22:33] <fragalot> even Quake3 runs on the rpi afaik
[22:33] <DaQatz> Binman_, yes you can. And it's not dumb
[22:34] <GabrialDestruir> There's no iso version? o.O
[22:34] <Xark_> Binman_: Yes. It has accelerated OpenGL ES 2.0. It has been demoed playing Quake 3 and should have the GPU power of an original Xbox or so (not too shabby - on par with iPads etc.).
[22:34] <fragalot> Ooo i forgot i still had my xbox
[22:34] <strigel> it's a brilliant portable gaming platfor potentially
[22:34] <DaQatz> When the pi's are easier to get I should run PiBot off a pi full time.
[22:35] <Xark_> Binman_: However, if you haven't coded a game before. Plan on starting small (think breakout or some older 2D game to start). Don't start with 3D (IMO).
[22:35] <GabrialDestruir> I'm still waiting to see how it does with emulation....
[22:35] <fragalot> Binman_: I have just the concept for you
[22:35] <fragalot> Binman_: http://distractionware.com/games/flash/hexagon/
[22:35] <IT_Sean> bolosaur: irish, licing in the states.
[22:35] <GabrialDestruir> I think this could the Pi would be perfect for my Gaming platform if it does decent emulation
[22:35] <IT_Sean> *living
[22:36] * Xark_ is totally going to use the Pi as the "open" Linux video game console he has been waiting for. :)
[22:36] <strigel> I had a muslim friend who's surname was Bin Man
[22:36] <strigel> he was a rubbish friend
[22:36] <fragalot> Xark_: http://openpandora.org/
[22:36] <fragalot> Xark_: i've played around with one at FOSDEM - they're quite neat
[22:36] <Binman_> Wow thanks guys :D
[22:37] <Xark_> fragalot: Yeah, looks neat. I have read a bunch about it for a long time now. :)
[22:37] <Binman_> I just watched the quake three demo. Seeing the demand for this makes me think that it it could turn into an actual proper games console
[22:38] <DaQatz> I should take deb, and cut it down to the metal(Just core and kernel) for people to build self booting pi games on.
[22:38] <oclet> looks gay
[22:38] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: From what I can gather, it can probably do N64 and PS1 (and older systems - mostly). We will see as N64 still has some rough spots on Pandora (better CPU, worse GPU than Pi from what I gather).
[22:38] <DaQatz> oclet, you're not gonna start trolling again are you?
[22:38] <fragalot> Xark_: the screen looks amazing irl for it's size :)
[22:38] <oclet> my iphone can do that
[22:38] <Binman_> Conker the Squirrel on Raspberry Pi?
[22:39] * DaQatz (~DB@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:39] * DaQatz (~DB@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:39] * PiBot sets mode +v DaQatz
[22:39] <Xark_> fragalot: Yeah, I will probably end up getting one. :)
[22:39] <strigel> oclet: your iphone is 500 gay pounds
[22:39] <GabrialDestruir> That'd be perfect for what I want, I honestly just want something that can do PS1 and older.
[22:39] <oclet> boooooooooring
[22:39] <strigel> and you can't even insert a memory card
[22:39] <strigel> what a shame
[22:39] <oclet> it has ssh
[22:39] <oclet> why would you want a memory card
[22:40] <fragalot> what do ssh & memory cards have in common O.O
[22:40] <acfrazier> I'm buying an iPad 3
[22:40] <acfrazier> deal with it
[22:40] <strigel> oclet: i know where your mother lives
[22:40] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Smartjoy-PC-Controller-Adapter-Converter/dp/B0009VIZSY Then invest in a bunch of these, obviously for the different systems, so that you could use original controllers >.>
[22:40] <stefanrvo> Your iphone don't have USB...
[22:40] <oclet> it has bluetooth
[22:40] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-132-223.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:41] * PiBot sets mode +v kism3t
[22:41] <GabrialDestruir> Apple Sucks
[22:41] <DaQatz> So does the pandora
[22:41] <GabrialDestruir> They've become big brother
[22:41] <GabrialDestruir> You can't deny it.
[22:41] <acfrazier> the pandora is vaporware rubbish
[22:41] <acfrazier> I can buy better hardware for $500
[22:41] <fragalot> acfrazier: Aye, it's a bit dated now
[22:41] <fragalot> and very pricey for what it is
[22:42] <DaQatz> acfrazier, sadly true at this point
[22:42] <fragalot> but it was still a fun gizmo to play around with
[22:42] <oclet> lol
[22:42] <oclet> its 500$?
[22:42] <fragalot> oclet: little less - but yeah
[22:42] <Xark_> acfrazier: It does look pretty expensive (especially when compared to a PS Vita or something - not that you can code for Vita).
[22:42] <mkopack> eh, to each their own??? I happen to love all my apple equipment
[22:42] * swiley (~swiley@143.sub-75-243-228.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzzz)
[22:42] <GabrialDestruir> 370 EUR
[22:42] * Xark_ is on a MacBook pro currently that he is quite fond of...
[22:43] <strigel> I'm happy for all the apple lovers
[22:43] <GabrialDestruir> 370 euros = 488.4370 US dollars
[22:43] * Binman_ (5ac900c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.201.0.199) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:43] <bolosaur> IT_Sean: Aight just wondering.
[22:43] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@173-19-35-22.client.mchsi.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Wolfram74
[22:43] <bolosaur> Because I'm going to London for the first time in two weeks. :)
[22:43] <mkopack> I only own a single non-Apple system ,and it's an old AMD dual core rig that is basically been taken out of service and is collecting dust
[22:44] <fragalot> I have a box of dead iphones donated to me
[22:44] <GabrialDestruir> I think I'd be more willing to use OSX if it'd actually run decently on anything that isn't Mac Hardware
[22:44] <strigel> all iphones are dead
[22:44] <acfrazier> GabrialDestruir, it does
[22:44] <strigel> i love os x
[22:44] <strigel> i have it dual booting from the same HDD as Windows 7 on my HP laptop
[22:44] <GabrialDestruir> I've yet to be able to properly virtualize OSX, it's always randomly crashing for stupid crap.
[22:45] <strigel> it took me two weeks to get that working
[22:45] <stefanrvo> irc://quakenet/theiphonewiki
[22:45] <stefanrvo> sery
[22:45] <strigel> logic audio is the bomb
[22:45] <stefanrvo> *sory
[22:45] <stefanrvo> wrong window
[22:45] <acfrazier> because the kernel is open source, people hack it to run on PC
[22:45] * Xark_ is concerned about the future viability of OS X (i.e., lock-down coming...)
[22:45] <acfrazier> GabrialDestruir, VMWare patcher
[22:45] <acfrazier> Xark_, Gatekeeper is in 10.7.3 too
[22:45] <GabrialDestruir> o.O
[22:45] <acfrazier> you just have to enable it
[22:46] <fragalot> DAMN - I can't get past 60 seconds on hexagon
[22:46] <GabrialDestruir> I'm using VirtualBox lol
[22:46] <fragalot> :'(
[22:46] <Xark_> acfrazier: Yes, for the moment. :)
[22:46] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[22:46] * cuzzo (~Zilly@173-166-7-93-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:46] * PiBot sets mode +v cuzzo
[22:46] <Xark_> acfrazier: Windows and Apple ARM machines are already "lost"...
[22:46] <cuzzo> Does FFmpeg work on Rasberry Pi?
[22:47] <acfrazier> Xark_, it's easy to jailbreak Windows if we ever had to
[22:47] <cuzzo> (on the RP's Fedora spin).
[22:47] <Xark_> cuzzo: I don't know, but I would be surprised if you couldn't compile it native for Rasp Pi (although it will probably be quite slow).
[22:47] <acfrazier> obtain a cert, sign a driver, load it into the kernel.
[22:47] <acfrazier> profit.
[22:47] <acfrazier> with OS X/iOS xnu is so full of holes it's unreal.
[22:47] <cuzzo> Xark_, FFmpeg would be slow? Or the compiling it?
[22:47] <GabrialDestruir> Considering that Apple have tried to make it so they can monitor your phones batman style without your permission or knowledge for the "protection of your information"
[22:47] <Xark_> acfrazier: That doesn't count for me though. I don't want to have to do that (same with video game consoles - even though you can "homebrew" some).
[22:47] <GabrialDestruir> I wouldn't trust an iPhone
[22:48] <acfrazier> all iOS exploits also apply to OS X
[22:48] <acfrazier> Xark_, I'm part of that community
[22:48] <mkopack> I'd trust an iPhone just as much as I would an Android phone...
[22:48] <Xark_> acfrazier: Way too much of a a cat & mouse game to keep up with. :)
[22:48] <acfrazier> GabrialDestruir, http://www.sysprobs.com/vmware-workstation-8-0-8-0-1-unlocker-to-run-mac-os-x-guest-in-windows-7
[22:48] <mkopack> Fact is, the carriers and manufacturers all do crazy crap
[22:48] * phantomcircuit_ is now known as phantomcircuit
[22:48] <acfrazier> Xark_, currently all devices can be jailbroken
[22:48] <unkle_george> FFMpeg should work, may not be accelerated though
[22:48] <GabrialDestruir> Except I don't like using VMware .-.
[22:49] <unkle_george> Needs to be compiled with OpenMax support
[22:49] <cuzzo> unkle_george, why wouldn't it be accelerated. What should I use to decode video (with acceleration)?
[22:49] <Xark_> acfrazier: I am all for it, and I have done plenty of that kind of activity, but I don't want to "rely" on that for my main computing environments. More of a "vote with my wallet" kind of thing.
[22:49] <fragalot> i've got a rooted HTC Magic - it works,... but it's dead slow & not the most reliable ever since the jailbreak
[22:49] <acfrazier> oh right I forget I'm in #paranoia
[22:49] <unkle_george> cuzzo: It looks VLC has support for openmax
[22:49] <GabrialDestruir> I'd trust an android phone before I would an iPhone, at least android phones you can replace the OS with AOSP or something like CM
[22:49] <fragalot> I guess I found out why they didn't include the features I unlocked int he first place, lol.
[22:49] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@173-19-35-22.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[22:49] <acfrazier> GabrialDestruir, and most of the time you have to do the same thing
[22:49] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.85.226) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:49] * PiBot sets mode +v EiN_
[22:49] <acfrazier> exploit the bootloader
[22:49] * Xark_ learned quite a bit "standardizing" Apple ][ floppy disk formats back in the day (before it was illegal, I will note). :)
[22:49] <fragalot> GabrialDestruir: i've seen iphones run android
[22:50] <mkopack> People LOVED to bitch about microsoft??? now they love to bitch about Apple??? fact is, people will bitch because they don't like the top dog.
[22:50] <acfrazier> mkopack, people will bitch purely because they CAN
[22:50] <acfrazier> there's no other reason
[22:50] <mkopack> true dat!
[22:50] <unkle_george> cuzzo: I was trying to figure this out yesterday. The hardware support is in the binary OpenIL library
[22:50] <GabrialDestruir> Yes, but it's still apples hardware, and who knows what they've hardwired in for the "good" of their customers.
[22:50] <mkopack> Rpi release is perfect example!
[22:50] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:51] <cuzzo> unkle_george, oh. Ok. Are there OpenMAX Python bindings?
[22:52] * zear_ (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:52] * PiBot sets mode +v zear_
[22:53] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:53] <unkle_george> cuzzo: wish I knew more about the library. My guess is it's a .h + .lib ... If there are no python bindings you could use swig
[22:53] <unkle_george> cuzzo: use swig to create a wrapper
[22:53] * xeba`away (~xeba@187.113.54.117) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:53] <cuzzo> unkle_george, I'm assuming that I could use ctypes also, yes?
[22:54] <unkle_george> cuzzo: http://www.khronos.org/news/tags/tag/python
[22:55] <GabrialDestruir> What Distro is ChromeOS based on? o.O
[22:56] <DaQatz> Gentoo I think
[22:56] * Xark_ is looking at the Khronos OpenMAX page...anybody know exactly what the Rasp Pi supports? OpenMAX AL 1.0.1 / 1.1, OpenMAX IL 1.0/1.1 (and then there is OpenMAX DL).
[22:56] * Xark_ guesses OpenMax AL 1.1 and downloads...
[22:57] * Bin (5ac900c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.201.0.199) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Bin
[22:57] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-91-41.as43234.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:57] * Xark_ finds the very slick http://www.khronos.org/files/openmax-al-1-1-quick-reference.pdf
[22:58] <Bin> So yeah I said before they said they were creating an AppStore so this could be the new apple! :D
[22:58] * armelf_ (~luser@80.214.9.28) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[22:58] * drewharris (~drewharri@bas1-ottawa09-2925286966.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:58] * PiBot sets mode +v drewharris
[22:58] <acfrazier> DaQatz, GabrialDestruir, Ubuntu
[22:58] <Xark_> Bin: I love the app-stores in Linux. :)
[22:58] <DaQatz> Oh?
[22:58] <acfrazier> at least originally, yes
[22:58] <GabrialDestruir> Ah, okay.
[22:59] <unkle_george> There is also support for openmax in gstreamer too
[23:00] <strigel> mkopack: so the bitching is nothing to do with the fact that microsoft behaved like a55holes in the 90's and Apple are doing so now?
[23:00] <acfrazier> I wonder if someone did chrome OS for macbook pro
[23:00] <acfrazier> I know Hexxeh did one for macbook air
[23:00] <drewharris> i don't understand why people are so keen on chrome OS
[23:00] <drewharris> i tried it, loathed it
[23:00] <Hexxeh> acfrazier: sure, same image works on nvidia based macs
[23:00] * koaschten (~koaschten@p5B3A652D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:01] <strigel> like I said, I don't see the point of ChromeOS either
[23:01] <Xark_> strigel: Exactly. I witnessed ~10 years "wasted" on 16-bit CPUs and DOS. I can never forgive Intel/MS for the setback to the industry. :)
[23:01] <mkopack> strigel: All depends on your personal perspective??? Do I love everything apple does? No??? but I also don't see them strong-arming the entire industry and being monopolistic the way MS was in the 90's
[23:01] <acfrazier> Hexxeh, mine's intel integrated
[23:01] <Hexxeh> acfrazier: vanilla might work
[23:01] <Hexxeh> depends
[23:01] <acfrazier> late 2011
[23:01] <acfrazier> so HD3000
[23:01] <Hexxeh> what wifi?
[23:01] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[23:01] <Hexxeh> if it's broadcom you'll need lime
[23:01] <acfrazier> mm, checking
[23:02] <acfrazier> Hexxeh, yep, broadcom
[23:02] <acfrazier> Firmware Version: Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (5.100.98.75.19)
[23:02] <Hexxeh> try lime
[23:02] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:02] * PiBot sets mode +v passstab
[23:03] <strigel> mkopack: yes, and I love Apple because of the beauty of the aesthetic and functional design of their products, something MS can never lay claim to. But if you're unsure why people regard Apple has exhibiting bad behaviour, please be more open when you look around, otherwise you sound like another fan boi
[23:04] <acfrazier> Hexxeh, your march 2 download link 404s
[23:04] <Hexxeh> hmm, lemme check
[23:04] <mkopack> strigel: did I NOT say it's personal preference and based on your own point of view?
[23:04] <GabrialDestruir> Wow.... this VM really lags .-.
[23:04] <passstab> are you the hexxeh that made the custom chromeos builds?
[23:04] <Hexxeh> yes
[23:04] <acfrazier> he is
[23:05] <passstab> wow
[23:05] <passstab> i'm talking to hexxeh
[23:05] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-132-223.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:05] <mkopack> Some people like MS, some like Apple, some like Linux/Android??? I use them all (and have used a LOT more???) each has their strengths/weaknesses??? Right now, for me, personally, I prefer apple, but it certainly didn't used to be that way???
[23:05] <mkopack> My friends were SHOCKED when I bought a Macbook in 2007??? I had sworn up and down before then that I'd NEVER get a MAc???
[23:05] <Hexxeh> acfrazier: last few builds failed, lemme kill the files and get the good ones showing
[23:05] <mkopack> But once I did, I fell in love with them...
[23:05] <acfrazier> Hexxeh, alrighty
[23:06] <mkopack> doesn't mean I love everything about them, but I like them a lot more than any of the alternatives out there right now for various reasons
[23:06] <Hexxeh> acfrazier: there you go, showing feb29 now, link works for me
[23:06] <DaQatz> Hexxeh, You ever get your crossdev eviro worked out?
[23:06] <Hexxeh> DaQatz: nope :/
[23:06] <strigel> mkopack: you tried to claim apple's behaviour is somehow above the worst of MS, but their behaviour has been every bit as bad, to believe a profit driven corporation will not abuse / exploit the top dog position is simply naive
[23:06] <DaQatz> Hexxeh, Maybe try a no PIE and none hardered root to build your tools in
[23:06] <mkopack> strigel: Thing is, at least in the PC market, apple ISN'T the top dog...
[23:06] <jojo> mkopack: you love the hw or sw ?
[23:07] <Hexxeh> DaQatz: i'll try it soon
[23:07] <Hexxeh> some of the #gentoo-embedded folks are trying it out
[23:07] <strigel> mkopack: check the profits...top dog by a country mile by any measure
[23:07] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[23:07] <DaQatz> Since the crosscompiler itself does not needed to be hardend
[23:07] <Hexxeh> also not tonight, going out and celebrating soon
[23:07] <Hexxeh> :V
[23:07] * koush_ (~koush@c-98-232-94-186.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:07] * PiBot sets mode +v koush_
[23:07] * koush (~koush@c-174-61-187-3.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:07] <Bin> Xark please could you give me the link you provided to the python thingy before I keep dropping out and I lost it
[23:07] <mkopack> And what I've seen them do in the smartphone/tablet market is simply say "Hey, do go your own thing and don't steal from us???" The problem with copyrights and patents is that if you don't make an effort to protect them, they immediately become nullified.
[23:08] * atts (~asheehan@146-115-165-244.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:08] * PiBot sets mode +v atts
[23:08] * MrWatson (~MrW@184.53.134.111) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:08] <mkopack> Aople DOESN'T pull shit like MS used to do where they'd strong arm a gov into only buying MS products
[23:08] <mkopack> jojo: Both depending on the product
[23:08] <GabrialDestruir> Heh.... it seems I haven't even been virtualizing this version of COS and I've already broken it somehow? .-.
[23:09] <unkle_george> cuzzo: I've thought about digging through the kernel patches to find anything that resembles OpenAL support.
[23:09] <strigel> mkopack: ok you win. Apple are morally superior to apple. Son, you are kidding yourself, and all the wise men can see it.
[23:09] <mkopack> Did I EVER say that???
[23:09] <mkopack> You're the one getting all bent out of shape here??? Did I not say I don't love everything they do?
[23:09] <strigel> that is what it sounds like to me
[23:09] <mkopack> man. you need reading comprehension classes or something
[23:10] <cuzzo> unkle_george, Well, I want to use the Raspberry Pi for a digital signage system.
[23:10] <cuzzo> unkle_george, so, I just need to be able to decode video.
[23:10] * Xark_ thinks all corporations need to be closely watched. They can't help it, it is in their nature to be a bit greedy and anti-social. :)
[23:10] <strigel> xark: exactly my point
[23:11] <strigel> it is naive to think that one abuses position where another does not
[23:11] <cuzzo> unkle_george, and the RP can obviously do this. But, I need to do some minor additional things and it's looking ever more that the RP is going to be a pain to pull it off.
[23:12] <jojo> apple are not much less abusive than microsoft, but they cause less harm if they have less of a monopoly
[23:12] <strigel> they all do it to the extent that the economics, law and politics of the day will permit it
[23:12] <unkle_george> cuzzo: I think there will be a version of vlc available that will play video. Yes, there's still alot of development by the community left to do.
[23:12] <jojo> it is monopolies that are bad, not companies
[23:12] <mkopack> jojo: Exactly...
[23:12] <strigel> jojo: agreed 100% MS did Much more damage
[23:12] <Xark_> cuzzo: Sounds very doable for RP and a good application IMO (but no doubt a small matter of programming).
[23:13] <mkopack> Intel - not a fan??? MS - not a fan??? They control too much of a market share and can basically dictate terms and use their monopoly advantage to squeeze out other players
[23:13] * MrWatson (~MrW@184.53.134.111) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:13] * PiBot sets mode +v MrWatson
[23:13] <strigel> again, you leave apple out of that judgement
[23:13] <mkopack> Which is why AMD is dieing, and it's only recently that Mac has gotten > 10% market share in the PC market.
[23:13] <mkopack> strigel: WHAT market does apple have monopoly position in? HUH/
[23:13] <strigel> implying that you are a fan
[23:14] <mkopack> Cell phone they're < 50%
[23:14] <strigel> so you admit you're a fan?
[23:14] <strigel> that's all I'm asking
[23:14] <acfrazier> that's false
[23:14] <mkopack> Tablet - ok, they pretty much own that market right now??? mostly because the Android offerings haven't been too stellar so far
[23:14] <cuzzo> Xark_, yeah, I think the RP is literally perfect for it. It's just that the project is ready to go on an x86 system and I think it's too much of an investment (right now) to get it working on RP.
[23:14] <mkopack> PC? they JUST hit 12% market share.
[23:14] <acfrazier> the only market share apple has a majority in is tablets
[23:14] <acfrazier> and that's because they got there first.
[23:14] <Xark_> cuzzo: Right. Not to mention RP "availability".
[23:14] <acfrazier> there were other tablets, but most of them sucked
[23:14] <mkopack> So, come on, strigel??? WHAT market is apple able to use monopoly position in?
[23:14] * LowValueTarget (~LowValueT@unaffiliated/lowvaluetarget) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:15] <cuzzo> unkle_george, very interesting. I'm using VLC for the player, but I'm trying to get away from it since it can't seemlessly play video and still iamges.
[23:15] <mkopack> acfrazier: agreed. I tried more than a few through the 90's and early 2000's
[23:15] <GabrialDestruir> Hexxeh, there seems to be a major bug with the latest Vanilla ChromOS, like the entire browser thing disappearing when you click to move it?
[23:15] <strigel> I asked you if you were a fan first. Answer my question, and I'll answer yours
[23:15] <ShinyHappyPonies> I don't like apple
[23:15] <cuzzo> Xark_, I don't imagine that being a problem any time soon. If it is, I'd be happy because that'd mean business is going well >.<
[23:15] <ShinyHappyPonies> never have
[23:15] <ShinyHappyPonies> never will
[23:15] <unkle_george> cuzzo: apparently there is some openmax IL example code in the debian images
[23:15] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:16] * stcuser (~Yogesh@50.44.200.186) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:16] <acfrazier> Hexxeh, is it rebuilding
[23:16] <acfrazier> or should I download an older one for now
[23:16] <mkopack> strigel: In so much that I use their hardware and like what I have, yes??? Just like I'm a fan of laser printers instead of ink jets, of Honda vs Suzuki motorcycles, Boeing jets vs that Euro stuff you guys make...
[23:16] <strigel> long way to say yes
[23:16] <mkopack> But that's my PERSONAL preference, based on my personal needs and wants.
[23:16] <unkle_george> cuzzo: http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/02/18/raspberry-pi-opengl-and-openmax-il-hello-world-applications/
[23:16] <mkopack> I'm entitled to those, just like you are to yours.
[23:17] <strigel> chill, no one said you weren't
[23:17] <mkopack> Did I tell you "YOU MUST USE APPLE PRODUCTS AND LIKE THEM OR ELSE???" No.
[23:17] <acfrazier> right
[23:17] <strigel> I just wanted you to come out and say you were a fan
[23:17] <Xark_> strigel: Which does take a bit of courage in this forum. :)
[23:17] <acfrazier> I use Apple products because I like them, not because I should believe others use them or am part of a 'cult'
[23:17] <strigel> for the nth time, you try to put words in my mouth i never uttered
[23:17] <GabrialDestruir> I'd use Apple Software..... if it didn't break on non apple hardware
[23:18] <mkopack> fan, yes??? fanboi - depends on how you define that term.. yes I have mostly switched to apple products??? but that doesn't mean I won't use or outright hate others.
[23:18] <acfrazier> one thing I will never buy is a Mac Pro.
[23:18] <strigel> and you even shout to add effect. I never said what you claim
[23:18] <acfrazier> I build my own desktop.
[23:18] * koush (~koush@73.105.203.22) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] * PiBot sets mode +v koush
[23:18] * koush_ (~koush@c-98-232-94-186.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:19] * koush (~koush@73.105.203.22) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:19] <Xark_> mkopack: You seem fairly rational about it all to me. That precludes you from being a Fan Boi I believe, right? :)
[23:19] <mkopack> acfrazier: I have a 2009 model??? there's things I love about it (the case is AWESOME) and things I hate (optical audio out is the only way to get surround sound out of it)???
[23:19] <drewharris> HEY EVERYBODY I LIKE APPLE PRODUCTS
[23:19] <drewharris> endures shitstorm
[23:19] <acfrazier> mkopack, 2009 mac pro?
[23:19] <mkopack> I just wish they weren't so anal about the video cards???
[23:19] <acfrazier> meh
[23:19] <mkopack> Yeah
[23:19] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Matttt
[23:19] <GabrialDestruir> Bah it's pointless to argue with an apple fanboy.
[23:19] <Xark_> Hi, my name is Xark and I am typing on an Apple MacBook Pro...
[23:19] <acfrazier> I'd consider buying one secondhand, but you couldn't pay me enough
[23:20] <GabrialDestruir> They want to pay twice as much for their computer
[23:20] <GabrialDestruir> that's their choice
[23:20] <acfrazier> to buy
[23:20] <acfrazier> a new mac pro
[23:20] <drewharris> it is our choice
[23:20] <drewharris> that's right
[23:20] <drewharris> :)
[23:20] <mkopack> I had to do a EFI/bios hack to get an upgrade to a 6000 series Radeon??? But I understand some of the reason why apple does what they do witht eh video cards.
[23:20] <ShinyHappyPonies> I can do absolutely everything I need without ever having to look at an apple product
[23:20] <strigel> i think it's perfectly valid that people are fans of apple products, and I support that
[23:20] <acfrazier> mkopack, yeah, that's why I can't run OS X on my desktop.
[23:20] <acfrazier> 6xxx cards
[23:20] <strigel> they are wonderful products mostly
[23:20] <acfrazier> specifically 6950
[23:21] <mkopack> ac: yeah, unless you get a card that is also basically found in an iMac or MacPro, you're kinda screwed.
[23:21] <GabrialDestruir> Oh there's nothing wrong with their products, at least on the computer side, it all runs great.
[23:21] * koush- (~koush@73.105.203.22) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:21] * PiBot sets mode +v koush-
[23:21] <strigel> but when people defend their corporate behaviour, or claim that other corporations are worse, I call FANBOI
[23:21] <drewharris> can we just leave the mac/pc arguments to engadget comment threads and reddit please
[23:21] <ShinyHappyPonies> all the vendors talk out of their arses
[23:21] <acfrazier> well, I have never made such claims
[23:21] <GabrialDestruir> Except it costs you twice as much for their hardware than it does if you built the same specs on a normal PC to run windows or linux or something
[23:21] * koush- (~koush@73.105.203.22) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:21] <mkopack> strigel: Why? Because I view the actions of one corporate as less detrimental than anothers? Maybe those actions don't impact me directly as much as the 2nd company's does?
[23:21] <ShinyHappyPonies> whether it's apple, m$, ibm, intel, amd, nvidia, asus etc.
[23:22] * LuXXe (LuXXe@host159-246-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:22] * PiBot sets mode +v LuXXe
[23:22] <strigel> mkppack: yes, that's why.
[23:22] <Tobias|> GabrialDestruir: you could run OS X that hardware (provided you violate their ToS). And OS X costs less than Windows, to boot.
[23:22] <strigel> it's naive to take this view in my opinion
[23:22] * koush| (~koush@73.105.203.22) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:22] * PiBot sets mode +v koush|
[23:22] * koush| (~koush@73.105.203.22) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:23] <strigel> all profit driven corporations are predatory and opportunistic, not to mention a-moral.
[23:23] <strigel> and that's ok actually
[23:23] <drewharris> who would win in a fight to the death: linus torvalds or richard stallman
[23:23] <strigel> but let's call a spade a spade
[23:23] <GabrialDestruir> Yes the software does cost less, and you may or may not be able to get it fully running on a normal computer, but the hardware is expensive as hell
[23:23] <DDave> linus drewharris
[23:23] <DDave> stallman is fat.
[23:23] <Henchman21> untill corporations take over the government
[23:23] <drewharris> they're both not exactly trim
[23:23] <Henchman21> oops too late
[23:23] <drewharris> but yes linus
[23:23] <drewharris> stallman is really annoying
[23:23] <Henchman21> fascism
[23:23] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[23:23] <Xark_> drewharris: Can Linus tag-team his wife? :)
[23:23] <DDave> have you seen his list of requireements drewharris ?
[23:24] <DDave> (for speaks and so on)
[23:24] <drewharris> speaks?
[23:24] <acfrazier> stallman would win because he'd sit on linus
[23:24] <DDave> speeches*
[23:24] <drewharris> hahahaha
[23:24] <DDave> accomodations, beverages , food
[23:24] <acfrazier> and crush him under his fatness
[23:24] <drewharris> really?
[23:24] <DDave> he doesnt like people talking to him while hes eating
[23:24] <drewharris> jeeezzzz
[23:24] <DDave> yes
[23:24] <DDave> google it
[23:24] <DDave> he doesnt like animals
[23:24] <Henchman21> dont talk bad about stallman
[23:24] <DDave> except for parrots
[23:24] <DDave> but please dont buy a parrot just to make him happy
[23:24] <DDave> (its all in his document, i am not kidding you)
[23:24] <drewharris> jesus
[23:24] <drewharris> i will buy RMS 100000 parrots
[23:25] <mkopack> strigel: Yoiu must either be a communist or a socialist??? Corporations exist STRICTLY to attempt to make a profit. That's their JOB. To maximize profits.
[23:25] <drewharris> i wonder if that GNU kernel will ever launch
[23:25] <drewharris> hurd
[23:25] <drewharris> or whatever
[23:25] <DDave> drewharris: http://gizmodo.com/5853729/please-do-not-buy-richard-stallman-a-parrot-and-other-rules
[23:25] <DDave> :D
[23:25] <DDave> Read it. its fucking nice
[23:25] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) Quit (Excess Flood)
[23:25] <Henchman21> im telling
[23:25] <Henchman21> you cursed
[23:25] <drewharris> hahaha wow
[23:25] <strigel> mkopack: oh, did you miss my statement, seems you did:
[23:25] <strigel> <strigel> and that's ok actually
[23:25] <mkopack> We put restrictions and protections in place to attempt to limit them from doing things that we feel are detrimental to the customer or society, but in the end it's the responsibility of the corporation to go after profits.
[23:26] <drewharris> this dude is 99.99% austistic
[23:26] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[23:26] <mkopack> (sorry I'm only half paying attention, trying to finish up a grad school graphics assignment here)
[23:26] <mkopack> Not trying to blow you off man
[23:26] <strigel> my declaration is that all corporations are equally a-moral, but in fact I am a true believer in the market economy
[23:27] <strigel> I simply oppose the sanctimony I believe to be attached to the defense of one corporation over another
[23:27] <mkopack> drew: I was wondering about that as well. I looked into it a few months back when we were doing an OS analysis assignment in the fall.
[23:27] <acfrazier> ad hominem arguments are bad and you should feel bad
[23:28] <acfrazier> oh wait we're talking about stallman?
[23:28] <acfrazier> proceed.
[23:28] <mkopack> strigel: So you don't have any companies who's products you prefer over another?
[23:28] <passstab> lol
[23:28] <strigel> i love apple products, as I have repeatedly said
[23:28] <strigel> I also stated that MS did more damage
[23:28] <acfrazier> as someone who /is/ autistic, I can say that he surpasses what is normal
[23:28] <acfrazier> he's narcissistic
[23:28] <mkopack> ok, then, what's the problem?? I agree with you! LOL
[23:29] <strigel> seems you weren't reading my statements
[23:29] <passstab> what are we going to do with our rpis?
[23:29] <mrdragons> Eat them.
[23:29] <Henchman21> make sweet love down by the fire
[23:29] <mkopack> eh, let's just drop it and move on. to each their own
[23:30] <strigel> what I disagree with is your position that Apple have abused their position less than other corporations
[23:30] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:30] * PiBot sets mode +v Maccer
[23:30] <ShinyHappyPonies> I'm going to use them like ninja stars on mac books
[23:30] * nuil is watching ER
[23:30] <strigel> ie, that they have not behaved badly, which was the start of the discussion
[23:30] * Bin (5ac900c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.201.0.199) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:31] <acfrazier> the only thing I find reprehensible about Apple is the way they brush off Foxconn's working conditions as a non-issue
[23:31] <acfrazier> but every company uses Foxconn
[23:31] <acfrazier> so that's not Apple exclusive
[23:31] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:32] <ShinyHappyPonies> I disliked apple because steve jobs was a smarmy twat
[23:32] <mkopack> dammit, I have a bug somewhere in my code. Grrr
[23:32] <drewharris> jobs was a twat
[23:32] <drewharris> rip
[23:32] <strigel> I spent the 90's hating Bill Gates, no pitying him
[23:32] <drewharris> new guy seems quite good
[23:32] <mkopack> this is gonna be fun to try to debug??? Frickin ton of 3D graphics transformations
[23:32] <acfrazier> well, he's dead now, but I don't think Cook is any better
[23:32] <strigel> then when I learned what he did for charity, my opinion changed
[23:32] <Kolin> long hours, shity conditions, making iphones
[23:32] <Kolin> or
[23:32] <Henchman21> hear about bill gates and eugenics?
[23:33] <Kolin> long hours, shity conditions, half the pay, growing rice...
[23:33] <ShinyHappyPonies> yeah, i heard that horseshit about BG
[23:33] <Henchman21> its true
[23:33] <drewharris> BG?
[23:33] <Henchman21> butthole gates
[23:33] * LuXXe_ (LuXXe@host197-247-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:33] * PiBot sets mode +v LuXXe_
[23:33] <acfrazier> I could really not care less about what he does for charity in other countries
[23:34] <strigel> Ok, it's time to come clean. I am Bill Gates
[23:34] <acfrazier> how about helping our our country
[23:34] <acfrazier> our own*
[23:34] <strigel> lemme guess? USA?
[23:34] <drewharris> what's this about gates and eugenics
[23:34] <Henchman21> search it
[23:34] <strigel> and you are what? twenty something? teenager?
[23:35] <Kolin> bill gates foundation paid for part of our local youth center to be built here
[23:35] <Henchman21> just like cia and google
[23:35] <Kolin> in scotland...
[23:35] <acfrazier> even if I was 38 my opinion would be the same
[23:35] <strigel> so I was right?
[23:35] <strigel> be honest
[23:35] <strigel> age, location
[23:35] * LuXXe (LuXXe@host159-246-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:35] <nuil> how is the comparison of 1.2ghz kirkwood to the bcm2835
[23:35] <acfrazier> yeah, I'm 18 and live in PA
[23:35] <strigel> woohoo
[23:36] <[\\\\\\\]> Lmai
[23:36] <strigel> that's all :)
[23:36] <[\\\\\\\]> lmao*
[23:36] * baldand (~quassel@241.14.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:36] <[\\\\\\\]> They said they canceled my order, but they didn't! :D
[23:36] <acfrazier> cool nick [\\\\\\\]
[23:36] <[\\\\\\\]> acfrazier: its danieldaniel
[23:36] * [\\\\\\\] is now known as danieldaniel
[23:36] <danieldaniel> Aww, farewell is being upgraded so I can't check on my orders
[23:37] <drewharris> it's cause we exploded their servers
[23:37] * oldtopman prays that newark sends him a batch 1
[23:37] <acfrazier> lol again
[23:37] <danieldaniel> drewharris: o.0
[23:37] <ShinyHappyPonies> bill gates and eugenics is another round of conspiracy theory horse shit
[23:37] <danieldaniel> oldtopman: There are no batches
[23:37] <acfrazier> I ordered too late
[23:37] <Henchman21> and breitbart was murdered
[23:37] <danieldaniel> oldtopman: They are being made "on demand" now, afaik
[23:37] <drewharris> 50 days until pi day
[23:37] <drewharris> grrr
[23:37] <piofcube> Farnell being upgraded? they must have decided to upgrade their servers to 386sxs then... I wonder who bought them off ebay ;-)
[23:37] <danieldaniel> drewharris: And how did you do that? D:
[23:37] <acfrazier> at 2AM I gave up and went to bed because newark wasn't live yet
[23:38] <drewharris> do what
[23:38] <Henchman21> cause he was about to expose obama
[23:38] <danieldaniel> drewharris: "explode" their servers
[23:38] <drewharris> haha
[23:38] <drewharris> on wednesday
[23:38] <drewharris> i think we cost them a lot of money in hosting
[23:38] <oldtopman> danieldaniel: Still, it would be nice to be part of the first 10k, as that was being defined as a batch. I mean, they dont fly them out individually from china, now do they ;)
[23:38] <acfrazier> breitbart was declared homicide? source?
[23:38] <danieldaniel> oldtopman: true
[23:38] <Henchman21> me
[23:38] <strigel> I don't understand why people can't learn to wait
[23:39] <drewharris> you have to be used to it by now
[23:39] <danieldaniel> Well, afaik, I already ordered two
[23:39] <danieldaniel> So i'm happy! :O
[23:39] <drewharris> i was origianlly hoping for a pi by christms :)
[23:39] * pVi (~pV@unaffiliated/pvi) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:39] * PiBot sets mode +v pVi
[23:39] <ShinyHappyPonies> do your age asking thing again strigel and you'll probably find out why people can't wait
[23:39] * DataSpree (~DataSpree@ip72-204-12-32.fv.ks.cox.net) has left #raspberrypi
[23:39] <acfrazier> by the time may rolls around it'll be like
[23:39] <acfrazier> oh, those shipped
[23:39] <piofcube> TBH if a R-Pi fell on my lap right now I would prebs cry with the extra work I would have to do LOL
[23:39] <piofcube> probs**
[23:39] * oldtopman sees an asm line, "solders chip, checks for defects, packages, drops in box, box sealed, box labeled for my house, box dropped in the mailbox"
[23:39] <drewharris> i'm really, really hoping someone will get X acceleration working before i get mine
[23:39] <drewharris> really hoping
[23:39] <acfrazier> I lost all excitement after the exceptionally poor handling of the launch
[23:40] * ShinyHappyPonies is now known as ReggieUK
[23:40] <drewharris> GUI without X acceleration will not be fun
[23:40] <strigel> ShinyHappyPonies: you have amused me tonight, from the moment I saw your nick. Bravo
[23:40] <strigel> BTW, I am seven
[23:40] <oldtopman> acfrazier: orly? How would you have launched?
[23:40] <ReggieUK> strigel, I do try :)
[23:40] * pVi (~pV@unaffiliated/pvi) has left #raspberrypi
[23:40] <drewharris> the whole making people search for thep roducts was.. not a good idea
[23:40] <danieldaniel> acfrazier: They handled it well considering how much interest they got
[23:40] <ReggieUK> I'm nore than happy to wait till april for mine btw.
[23:40] <strigel> lol Reggie
[23:40] <ReggieUK> and > 40 before you ask
[23:40] <acfrazier> I would've made damn sure the resellers I chose could handle that level of traffic, oldtopman
[23:41] <acfrazier> ReggieUK, may here
[23:41] <danieldaniel> acfrazier: They did
[23:41] <drewharris> also make sure both of them are actually going to be selling it :)
[23:41] <acfrazier> ^
[23:41] <danieldaniel> true that
[23:41] <acfrazier> they were preorder or express interest at go timr
[23:41] <acfrazier> e
[23:41] <oldtopman> acfrazier: I registered before everybody woke up and have yet to get an email. And seriously, no store could have handled that :/
[23:41] <fragalot> as far as i'm concerned, rpi did what they could
[23:41] <drewharris> that whole "if you're seeing the "express interest" page you're in the wrong place" got me in such a frenzy
[23:42] <drewharris> WHERE IS IT!!?!?
[23:42] <drewharris> ahh
[23:42] <nuil> sendxmpp ist genious
[23:42] <mrdragons> Yeah, the launch was a bit disastrious, but I don't see why it would make anyone not want it if they had anything cool planned
[23:42] <drewharris> good times
[23:42] <acfrazier> oldtopman, Apple took 1.5 million preorders in 24h
[23:42] <piofcube> Maybe someone should have tied the execs of the distibutors down... stapled their eyes open and forced them to read the full list of addresses subscribed to the mailing list and explain that it might be more than that total who will try to buy the R-pi LOL
[23:42] <fragalot> piofcube: :D
[23:43] <oldtopman> acfrazier: You're right. I'll email them right away and tell them that the better get apple on their next launch :P
[23:43] <acfrazier> yup
[23:43] <acfrazier> lol
[23:43] <drewharris> rpi 2.0
[23:43] <acfrazier> or proper load balancing
[23:43] <piofcube> oldtopman... you think we might get free bumpers if they do?
[23:43] <acfrazier> that's all I ask
[23:43] <Xark_> It kind of sounds to me like the foundation said most of the right things to the partners, who just nodded their heads (and did next to nothing to prepare).
[23:44] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] * PiBot sets mode +v paul_-
[23:44] <fragalot> Xark_: I agree
[23:44] * roman3x (~roman3x@bband-dyn33.178-40-206.t-com.sk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] * PiBot sets mode +v roman3x
[23:45] * drewharris (~drewharri@bas1-ottawa09-2925286966.dsl.bell.ca) has left #raspberrypi
[23:45] <acfrazier> probably
[23:45] <piofcube> They probs thought... Hey we're big companies... what's this "ri-pi" thing going to do? Pah... we sell minions of products each year... 10K extra won't even be noticed.
[23:45] <acfrazier> I bet they will be ready for 2.0
[23:45] <acfrazier> lol
[23:46] <Aquilus_> piofcube: Minions of products? :p
[23:46] * victhor (~victhor@186.212.229.66) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:46] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[23:47] <piofcube> yeah... they're so big, they sell to minions ;-)
[23:47] <fragalot> lol
[23:47] <Aquilus_> But yeah, considering attention this got, I'm hoping they'll ramp up production significantly.
[23:47] <Aquilus_> Seems it would be in their best interest.
[23:47] <fragalot> they'd be dumb not to
[23:47] <OneFix_Work> They are simply experiencing the same problem as any new company with a new product experiences.
[23:48] <Vazde> does anyone have any idea how the pi would work as a nat/firewall(is 100Mpbs achiavable?)? and what kind of latency usb introduces?
[23:48] <Xark_> The elemement14 people do seem to realize now and have made some videos (nice Ben Heck one and a painful one by a marketing guy) and stuff to try and capitalize on the success.
[23:48] <GabrialDestruir> Evil Geniuses Incorporated, We sell the evil devices you need in such a way that dumb minion will understand!
[23:48] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[23:48] <[deXter]> They should be thanking the RPi for all the attention they got.. I mean how many people have heard of RS and e14 before this?
[23:48] <fragalot> Vazde: it should work fine - only issue i can think of is that usb needs to poll
[23:48] <OneFix_Work> Once existing supply chains are utilized for things like the GertBoard, things will likely work way smoother.
[23:48] <Aquilus_> [deXter]: They mainly sell to companies, it seems.
[23:49] <strigel> deXter: um, RS is quite well known
[23:49] <strigel> in fact it's massive
[23:49] <fragalot> Aquilus_: yup - they make an exception for normal people though
[23:49] <piofcube> Gab: Does that include a large red button on the top?
[23:49] <fragalot> but not online sales
[23:49] <fragalot> strigel: so is farnell really
[23:49] <Vazde> and would it be possible to exploit the gpio interrupts and build some kind of ethernet connection that way?
[23:49] <GabrialDestruir> Yes, as of right now all orders come with a large red "DO NOT PRESS" button!
[23:50] <OneFix_Work> Aquilus_: I'm 99% sure they did what they did so that orders for a lot of say 300 could be easily placed...
[23:50] <strigel> yes fragalot, but deXter didn't mention Farnell
[23:50] <[deXter]> strigel, Probably, in the UK it's well known..
[23:50] <GabrialDestruir> Labeled with big letter's so your minions know NOT to press that button!
[23:50] <[deXter]> strigel, Farnell = e14 btw.
[23:50] * luther07 (~mark@206.221.127.34) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[23:50] * Tobias| (~Tobias@unaffiliated/tobias/x-2050245) has left #raspberrypi
[23:50] <Xark_> Vazde: Possibile, but it would suck more than USB I suspect. Remember "parallel port" ethernet adapters? :)
[23:50] <fragalot> Vazde: ^
[23:50] <fragalot> lol
[23:51] <strigel> and why would people in the US know about RS? And why would RS target the US market? S
[23:51] * DaFox_ (~DaFox@S0106001839cfa51a.ss.shawcable.net) Quit ()
[23:51] <Vazde> :(
[23:51] <GabrialDestruir> Google's "Verification" is starting to tick me off.
[23:51] <strigel> RS are not looking to expand into the US
[23:51] <GabrialDestruir> They keep sending me the wrong numbers
[23:51] <fragalot> strigel: that's where farnell comes in
[23:51] <OneFix_Work> Aquilus_: When schools start requiring students to use them for classes, the bookstores are going to want to buy a few hundred of them...and probably sell them with a $10 markup
[23:51] <strigel> if they were they would establish presence there
[23:51] <piofcube> I remember the parallel port Token Ring adaptors LOL
[23:51] <strigel> ie: they're not looking for US publicity right now
[23:52] <Xark_> Vazde: The existing ethernet is USB, so having two USB is probably fine for light to medium use. If you want an industrial strength firewall/router, I doubt RP is really what you want. :)
[23:52] <Vazde> what i am worried about is the latency
[23:52] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[23:52] <GabrialDestruir> But the RPi would probably make a decent home router/firewall
[23:53] <strigel> deXter: didn't know that
[23:53] <Xark_> Vazde: I am sure USB is not ideal for that (but it may be small).
[23:53] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: The processor would be overkill for a home router
[23:53] <strigel> fragalot: yes, I see now
[23:53] <[deXter]> OneFix_Work, Probably, but the price is just right. :P
[23:53] * Naphatul (~Naphatul@77.29.129.34) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:53] * PiBot sets mode +v Naphatul
[23:53] <[deXter]> OneFix_Work, And more importantly, the power consumption.
[23:53] <GabrialDestruir> Actually, for running pfsense, if there was an arm version, it's just right
[23:54] <Xark_> Vazde: I saw a rasp pi "netbench" result somewhere. You should google for that (and assume the 2nd USB is similar to the internal).
[23:54] <Xark_> Vazde: (may have been on the forums though... in which case they are down for the time being)
[23:54] <Vazde> pi would be perfect web server+router, but i would not want to ruin my fiber-connection with it's latency :p
[23:54] <OneFix_Work> DexterLB: Yea, but with 1 USB port, you're going to be limited to a theoretical max of 480MBps for all IO operations involving ethernet/usb
[23:55] <fragalot> Vazde: only one way to find out :P
[23:55] * mpthompson (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.131.39.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] * PiBot sets mode +v mpthompson
[23:55] <fragalot> OneFix_Work: worse than that is the latency usb brings
[23:55] <Xark_> OneFix_Work: Yeah, so "in theory" you are fine with two 100Mbps ethernet (but USB has overhead and there is the latency).
[23:55] <Vazde> fragalot: yeah :p
[23:55] <fragalot> usb isn't interrupt based and needs to poll for data to come in
[23:55] <Vazde> Xark_: got a link?
[23:55] <Xark_> Compared to WiFi, I suspect USB ethernet is "awesome". :)
[23:56] * piless (561ec4a1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.196.161) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[23:56] <fragalot> Xark_: excluding 802.11n :P
[23:56] <piless> hi
[23:56] <Xark_> Vazde: Not handy...maybe on the elinux wiki.
[23:56] <Aquilus_> Did anyone get a mail from RS yet?
[23:56] <OneFix_Work> Xark_: Yea...but I wouldn't do 2 ethernet ports and a USB HDD
[23:56] <Xark_> OneFix_Work: Yeah, even one HD and you do probably hit a bottleneck.
[23:57] <GabrialDestruir> Eh, I think depending on the network, this thing doesn't even need an HDD connected to it, you could probably put all storage elseswhere on the network.
[23:57] <piofcube> Is there any USB ethernet adaptors that do more in hardware than just dump the load onto the host CPU?
[23:57] <GabrialDestruir> Like a real FileServer
[23:57] * atticist (~akwhawd@87-194-182-81.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:57] * PiBot sets mode +v atticist
[23:57] <Vazde> Xark_: nope.. how can my google fu be this weak
[23:58] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: Well, since the OS will be booted on the internal SD, it would not need an HDD
[23:59] <OneFix_Work> GabrialDestruir: I would guess that you could also run a 2nd rPi as a file server as well...if you're OK with no redundancy and 100MBps
[23:59] <Xark_> Vazde: Yeah, I think it was a forum post (and perhaps it was a different benchmark - but I do remember network stats somewhere).
[23:59] <GabrialDestruir> My network is only 100 anyways.
[23:59] <GabrialDestruir> So it's not like I'm going from Gigabit to not

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.