#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-03-04

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:01] <hotwings> It contains a Linux processor, memory chips and ports for almost every plug in device you could ever need including USB, HDMI and Ethernet cables.
[0:01] <hotwings> ??_??
[0:02] <IT_Sean> linux processor?
[0:02] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:02] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-132-13.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:02] * PiBot sets mode +v kism3t
[0:02] <hotwings> what if i need firewire or esata :(
[0:02] <Aquilus_> IT_Sean: It can process linuxes.
[0:02] <Aquilus_> Clearly.
[0:02] <haltdef> was that the article on an australian site that couldn't be wrong about any more things?
[0:02] <oldtopman> hotwings: You're reading that terrible article, aren't you.
[0:03] <IT_Sean> hotwings.. if you need firewire or esata, you need a PC, not a dev board.
[0:03] <Bellagio> I ordered my rpi on the morning of 2/29 and I have not a shipping date. Am I the only one?
[0:03] <hotwings> oldtopman - yeah, the quotes are priceless in it :)
[0:03] <ukscone> haltdef: the only way it could have been worse is if it was written in rhyming slang
[0:03] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-191-172.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] * PiBot sets mode +v xlq
[0:04] <Flea86> ukscone: lol
[0:04] <Flea86> IT_Sean: lol yeah I saw that in the news article as well
[0:05] <ReggieUK> are we still discussing that post?
[0:05] <IT_Sean> Apparently.
[0:05] <ReggieUK> perhaps we should petition the editor to MAKE her rewrite it and plea to keep her job?
[0:05] <Flea86> ReggieUK: lol
[0:06] <hotwings> NO NO
[0:06] <hotwings> the article is great how it is
[0:06] <ReggieUK> and from that picture, she's a fine one to talk about ugly computers
[0:06] <ukscone> i'm thinking more along the lines that she should buy us all a beer
[0:06] <ReggieUK> face for radio methinks
[0:06] <ReggieUK> ukscone, that will be part of the plea process
[0:06] <ukscone> how much is a 2million pack of bitter?
[0:07] <hotwings> the fact that its written by a woman who is about as white as a toilet bowl, with a big pink flower in her hair is the cherry on top
[0:07] <ukscone> >sexism alert>
[0:08] <ukscone> this is why women should be chained to the kitchen sink, bare foot and pregnant
[0:08] <ReggieUK> I have no issue with her being a woman
[0:08] <ukscone> </sexism alert>
[0:08] <ReggieUK> I just have an issue with her talking shit when she claims to be an expert :D
[0:08] <Out`Of`Control> maybe she is a troll woman?
[0:08] * normod (normod@bling.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] * PiBot sets mode +v normod
[0:08] <hotwings> i dont actually care that shes a woman.. im just not surprised
[0:08] <Aquilus_> Probably.
[0:08] <Aquilus_> How is the RPI uglier than other computers?
[0:08] <DJW|Home> Be careful on the sexism, there are many a good embedded coder of the fairer sex that would put you all to shame ;)
[0:08] <Aquilus_> I hope she realises that they all look like that under the casing.
[0:09] * DJW|Home is now known as DJWillis
[0:09] <ReggieUK> she's obviously shallow :D
[0:09] <hotwings> thank god she confirms the rpi contains memory chips
[0:09] <ReggieUK> I bet she owns a mac
[0:09] <ukscone> DJWillis: yup
[0:09] <normod> who are we badmouthing now, liz?
[0:09] <hotwings> "US technology company Raspberry Pi???s creation lets users program their own computer by giving them all the parts they need - including a wireless mouse, keyboard and an SD card reader."
[0:10] <ReggieUK> crap technology reporters
[0:10] <ReggieUK> no one ever badmouths liz on here
[0:10] <DJWillis> hotwings: not read this article but god alond knows what she would have made of Gumstix, BeagleBoard and friends.
[0:10] <normod> ok that's better
[0:10] <hotwings> sweet.. an ugly computer, wireless mouse, keyboard and sd card reader... for $35!
[0:10] * fmfree (no@2002:84f1:bc64::84f1:bc64) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:10] * fmfree (no@2002:84f1:bc64::84f1:bc64) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:10] * PiBot sets mode +v fmfree
[0:10] <ukscone> ReggieUK: yeah especially not if they wish to live
[0:10] <ReggieUK> 'gumstix, it's got a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp, but it does maffs'
[0:11] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002129029119.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:11] <hotwings> "Raspberry Pi has also released a no-frills $25 version that comes with without a case, keyboard or monitor."
[0:11] <hotwings> for $25 i expect a monitor >:(
[0:12] <Aquilus_> Good thing the 35$ version comes with a case, keyboard and monitor then.
[0:13] <DJWillis> ReggieUK: actually, that sounds like an ok description to me, lets be honest these things are built to work, not beauty ;) - Let's be honest the OpenPandora is not exactly 'devoid of the ugly stick' and that is rather close to my heart.
[0:13] <Flea86> hotwings: Plenty of free ones (old tube TV's) by the roadside..
[0:13] <xlq> press fail
[0:13] <ukscone> ah food arrived
[0:13] <Aquilus_> DJWillis: Well, the RPI is just a circuit board with stuff on it though.
[0:13] <Aquilus_> You can't really judge the aesthetics of circuitry.
[0:14] <Aquilus_> No matter how hard Steve Jobs tried to do so :p
[0:14] <hotwings> i wont what she thinks a not-ugly computer looks like
[0:14] <hotwings> *i wonder
[0:14] <DJWillis> Aquilus_: I am rather aware of that ;), and I would say there are nice and nasty look boards (looking at the giant stack on my desk).
[0:14] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:14] <hotwings> those zotac atom computers are hawt!
[0:14] <Flea86> Aquilus: Might not look like the prettiest board in town, but there's a few nice design innovations built into raspi
[0:15] <Aquilus_> I'm not saying that it's ugly. It looks fairly neat from what I can see.
[0:15] <Aquilus_> Although I'm a software guy, not a hardware guy.
[0:15] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:15] <hotwings> who the hell looks at a circuit board in terms of (un)attractiveness
[0:15] <ReggieUK> nearly everything is built to work, not look pretty, Asus etc. do it to mug people of money for adding go faster stripes to a motherboard
[0:15] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] * ChanServ sets mode +o PiBot
[0:16] <DJWillis> Aquilus_: actually, what I have seen of it seems pretty well laid out but again, I am more software.
[0:16] <normod> that israeli arm-box looks pretty neat
[0:16] <normod> Slice-something
[0:16] <xlq> trim-slie
[0:16] <xlq> trim-slice
[0:16] <normod> yeah
[0:16] <haltdef> tegra 2 sucks a bit doesn't it
[0:17] <xlq> Note that in the small-print, they say you can't actually play HD video on it yet.
[0:17] <normod> I meant looks as in design
[0:17] <xlq> Oh, uh.
[0:17] * fmfree (no@2002:84f1:bc64::84f1:bc64) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:18] <hotwings> the rpi is sexy... and it puts out if you get it drunk
[0:18] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@245-178.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:18] * fmfree (no@wlan-442-188-100-dhcp.CSUChico.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:18] * PiBot sets mode +v fmfree
[0:19] <normod> so that's the pie
[0:20] <normod> I like how Raspberry Pie on urbandictionary is really nasty
[0:22] <IT_Sean> EEEEEEWWW!
[0:22] <IT_Sean> Good god man!
[0:22] <IT_Sean> Nasty!
[0:22] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[0:22] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[0:22] <normod> sorry :)
[0:22] <DJWillis> And there is the reason this is an unofficial chan - The line gets crossed... ;)
[0:23] <no-name-> this chan should be called ##raspberrypi :|
[0:23] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:23] * PiBot sets mode +v ukscone
[0:23] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:23] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.195.176) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:24] <DaQatz> no-name-, why not?
[0:24] <DJWillis> no-name-: in strict freenode guide terms, yes. That said, why is it not official? Any real reason.
[0:24] <no-name-> ## is for unofficial channels on freenode
[0:25] <DaQatz> DJWillis, Primarily because the foundation itself is not running it.
[0:25] <no-name-> because it wasn't opened by the raspberry pi people
[0:25] <DaQatz> no-name-, techically not true.
[0:25] <DaQatz> ukscone, also mods the forums for foundation
[0:25] <ukscone> the foundation isn't running it themselves but "blessed" it's creation
[0:26] <DaQatz> Yes
[0:26] <no-name-> oh, ok
[0:26] <ukscone> it's unofficial as no founation members are in here officially although some may lurk
[0:27] <ukscone> and when they have time they will take owner privs they have ops currently if they wish them
[0:27] <DaQatz> Would be nice actually.
[0:27] * agsdkgalskh (4e1e6daf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.30.109.175) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:27] * PiBot sets mode +v agsdkgalskh
[0:27] <DaQatz> Acting as middle men gets annoying sometimes
[0:27] <normod> is that python tutorial guy here?
[0:27] <normod> Liam
[0:28] <normod> Liam Howlett
[0:28] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-168-9.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
[0:28] <DaQatz> there is a Liam` in chan, who is away.
[0:28] * Vir2L (~Greg@224.231-93-216-fuji-dsl.dhcp.surewest.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:28] <DaQatz> Not sure if it's the guy you are looking for.
[0:28] <ukscone> it was also my decision to use the term unofficial as i didn't want people to be under the misconception that this is the real place to get help although we will try
[0:30] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:31] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@245-178.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy_
[0:32] <DJWillis> ukscone: ahhh, that makes a lot of sense, not official but 'blessed'.
[0:32] * heymaster (~heymaster@78.61.212.188) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:32] <UnaClocker> WTF, I ordered my Pi on the first day, after the sites had started working again. I got a May 11th ship date, my friend just ordered one and his ships April 3rd?!
[0:33] <DJWillis> UnaClocker: one from Farnell and one from RS?
[0:33] <Flea86> ^
[0:33] <normod> wow I just now got an e-mail from RS (in swedish)
[0:34] <UnaClocker> Is RS selling them yet? All I got from RS was an email saying they're inept.
[0:34] <Flea86> lol
[0:34] * Cladkins (18133d40@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.19.61.64) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Cladkins
[0:34] <koaschten> I didnt even get that mail UnaClocker ;)
[0:34] * jojo only just got the rs email too
[0:35] <DaQatz> UnaClocker, you're lucky
[0:35] <UnaClocker> heh, I JUST got one from RS on the email address I used at 6:05am that first fateful day.
[0:35] <DaQatz> UnaClocker, I order less then an hour after release. Mine ships the 16th
[0:35] <Gustavo_Fring> my newark order changed from May to April, as did others
[0:35] <normod> UnaClocker: same here
[0:35] <UnaClocker> Ahh, I'll have to figure out how to look up my newark order.
[0:37] <haltdef> just got my RS email too
[0:39] <Cladkins> Still haven't got mine
[0:40] * heymaster (~heymaster@2002:4e3d:d4bc:0:542:ea12:b6d0:bdc7) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] * PiBot sets mode +v heymaster
[0:40] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:40] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] * ChanServ sets mode +o PiBot
[0:41] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-191-172.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:41] <Cladkins> Anybody have any resources or insight on using backtrack on Rpi
[0:42] <atticist> oooh just got an RS email too
[0:42] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:42] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o PiBot
[0:42] * Dimacus (~kvirc@31-192-205-246.customer.universal.se) Quit (Quit: I am dead, dead, dead (i tought i was hot, guess i was not))
[0:42] <fragalot> atticist: did it tell you something in the lines of "Hey check out our other stuff that's not related to rpi in any way" ? :D
[0:43] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host188-120-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
[0:43] * fmfree (no@wlan-442-188-100-dhcp.CSUChico.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:43] * no-name- (~no-name@180.237.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:43] * fmfree (no@wlan-442-188-100-dhcp.CSUChico.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:43] * PiBot sets mode +v fmfree
[0:44] * Cladkins (18133d40@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.19.61.64) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[0:44] <atticist> in summary: "oh hai, we will have raspberry PIs soon, lots of people interested, be in touch later, kthxbye"
[0:44] <Flea86> fragalot: RS will undoubtedly use the raspi as a marketing tool
[0:44] <fragalot> Flea86: "will"? you mean they haven't already?
[0:44] <Flea86> fragalot: I mean 'from here onwards' :P
[0:45] <fragalot> Flea86: hehe
[0:45] <atticist> "Once we receive the boards into stock, they will be allocated on a first-come first-serve basis, in order of when requests were received."
[0:45] * Cladkins (18133d40@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.19.61.64) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * PiBot sets mode +v Cladkins
[0:45] <danieldaniel> atticist: the email?
[0:45] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:45] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:45] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-24-147-35-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * ChanServ sets mode +o PiBot
[0:45] <Flea86> fragalot: They were better off saying "Hey, if you buy $50 worth of stuff from us, we'll throw in a free raspi!"
[0:46] <DaQatz> There fixed PiBot's ctcp issue.
[0:46] <fragalot> Flea86: I'd have bought MILLIONS of $50 orders!
[0:46] <fragalot> :P
[0:46] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:46] * PiBot sets mode +v DDave
[0:46] <DaQatz> I typo in a plugin was eating the ctcp before it ws getting to version
[0:47] <normod> what does PiBot do?
[0:47] <Aquilus_> Nothing useful.
[0:47] <atticist> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7041/6950413451_bbd06c883e_b.jpg
[0:47] <Flea86> fragalot: haha
[0:47] <DaQatz> Logs, helps with mod, weather forecasts
[0:47] <DaQatz> Can google too
[0:47] <normod> no twitter?
[0:47] <ukscone> and makes the tea
[0:48] <DaQatz> Used to translate text
[0:48] <ukscone> doesn't do the dishes though
[0:48] <DaQatz> But need to write a new plugin for that google shut there api down
[0:48] <DaQatz> !w
[0:48] <PiBot> DaQatz: in Berwick, ME on Sun Mar 4 04:07:00 2012. Temp 441??Ra. Condition: Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 93%, Later 507??Ra - 482??Ra. Condition: Snow.
[0:48] <fragalot> ukscone: yet.
[0:48] <Cladkins> ,w
[0:48] <Cladkins> !w
[0:49] <DaQatz> Cladkins, you need to specify a place
[0:49] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:49] * PiBot sets mode +v toxibuny
[0:49] <Cladkins> Haha
[0:49] * Hotroot (~hotrootso@pool-71-106-166-159.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:49] * PiBot sets mode +v Hotroot
[0:49] <DaQatz> !w New York, New York
[0:49] <PiBot> DaQatz: in New York, NY on Sun Mar 4 03:51:00 2012. Temp 441??Ra. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 33%, Later 517??Ra - 498??Ra. Condition: Thunderstorm.
[0:49] <Cladkins> You mean it doesn't just magically know where I am
[0:49] <Hotroot> 394 people? Holy shit
[0:50] <DaQatz> You can use !weather_set loc <PLACE>
[0:50] <fragalot> Hotroot: mind the language please
[0:50] <strigel> could be 393 soon
[0:50] <DaQatz> Then you do not need to enter the place each time
[0:50] <Cladkins> !w oak harbor, Washington
[0:50] <PiBot> Cladkins: in Oak Harbor, WA on Sat Mar 3 23:19:00 2012. Temp 50??F. Condition: Overcast, Humidity: 82%, Later 50??F - 41??F. Condition: Chance of Showers.
[0:50] <fragalot> !w brussel, belgium
[0:50] <PiBot> fragalot: in City of Brussels, Brussels. Temp 46??F. Condition: Cloudy, Humidity: 93%, Later 59??F - 39??F. Condition: Partly Sunny.
[0:50] <Hotroot> Oh, my bad
[0:50] <danieldaniel> omg, why u so ship late, RPI
[0:50] <UnaClocker> !w Gig Harbor, Washington
[0:50] <PiBot> UnaClocker: in Gig Harbor, WA on Sat Mar 3 22:53:00 2012. Temp 51??F. Condition: Overcast, Humidity: 71%, Later 54??F - 39??F. Condition: Chance of Showers.
[0:50] <fragalot> hang on
[0:50] <strigel> how do you set the units
[0:50] <fragalot> brussels in brussels
[0:50] <fragalot> brussels is not a country O.O
[0:51] <agsdkgalskh> !w warsaw, poland
[0:51] <DaQatz> Tell that to google
[0:51] <PiBot> agsdkgalskh: in Warsaw, Masovian Voivodeship. Temp 28??F. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 93%, Later 45??F - 25??F. Condition: Clear.
[0:51] <fragalot> also the temperatures are in some funky oddball unit
[0:51] <fragalot> :P
[0:51] <UnaClocker> Not overcast. Mighty sunny actually.
[0:51] <Cladkins> Definitely getting off topic now
[0:51] <DaQatz> fragalot, try !weather_set c
[0:51] <DaQatz> if you want Celsius.
[0:51] <fragalot> !weather_set c
[0:51] <PiBot> fragalot: You're now using celsius.
[0:51] <normod> !weather_set k
[0:51] <PiBot> normod: You're now using kelvin.
[0:51] <Hotroot> Anyway, I want to ask about C++ dev for the Rpi.
[0:52] <fragalot> I fully expect it to always show as celcius to me evne when someone else uses it now
[0:52] <fragalot> :D
[0:52] <Hotroot> I assume all the C++ Standard libraries and whatnot are supported?
[0:52] <fragalot> Hotroot: aslong as you compile for the ARM platform, I don't see the problem :)
[0:52] <DaQatz> Hotroot, yep
[0:52] <Hotroot> Alright, sweet
[0:52] * agsdkgalskh (4e1e6daf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.30.109.175) Quit (Quit: "goodnight.")
[0:52] <Hotroot> What about in terms of GUI?
[0:52] <Hotroot> And user input
[0:53] <DaQatz> A large handfull gui toolkits are out there
[0:53] <toxibuny> !w Kent, England
[0:53] <PiBot> toxibuny: in Kent, England on Sat Mar 3 21:50:00 2012. Temp 280K. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 87%, Later 285K - 277K. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[0:53] <DaQatz> QT, and GTK are very popular
[0:53] <Hotroot> I plan on using QT, hopefully that works
[0:53] <Hotroot> Ah, excellent
[0:53] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:53] <normod> QT4 ftw right?
[0:54] <DaQatz> QT5
[0:54] <DaQatz> too
[0:54] <popey> +1 Qt5
[0:54] <Hotroot> So it's pretty much just like coding for a regular PC, you just compile to ARM
[0:54] * Cladkins (18133d40@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.19.61.64) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[0:54] <fragalot> Hotroot: yup
[0:54] <Hotroot> It's not like a smartphone where you have to use their API for input and GUI
[0:54] <DaQatz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-vBbqamNBU
[0:54] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:55] <toxibuny> I'm hoping for python wrappings for opengl somehow.
[0:55] <normod> that video is so awesome
[0:55] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[0:55] <strigel> !w McMurdo Sound
[0:55] <PiBot> strigel: in McMurdo Sound on Sat Mar 3 22:30:00 2012. Temp 253K. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 72%.
[0:55] <DaQatz> wb Sean
[0:56] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[0:56] <IT_Sean> hey DaQatz
[0:56] <normod> !w Stockholm, Sweden
[0:56] <PiBot> normod: in Stockholm, Sweden. Temp 269K. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 93%, Later 281K - 269K. Condition: Clear.
[0:56] <toxibuny> Temperature in Kelvin...
[0:56] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@30.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) has left #raspberrypi
[0:56] <strigel> only -20 in antarctica
[0:57] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@30.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac
[0:57] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-132-13.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:57] <normod> :)
[0:58] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-187-141-26.lns16.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:58] * PiBot sets mode +v nrdb
[1:00] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:00] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[1:02] <toxibuny> I'm well excited to see 3d stuff on raspi. Why do they always show us videos? The samurai demo looked awesome...
[1:03] * swiley (~swiley@20.sub-75-192-229.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:07] * kilohelo (~freenode_@69.61.67.40) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:09] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[1:11] * fmfree (no@wlan-442-188-100-dhcp.CSUChico.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:12] * swiley (~swiley@37.sub-75-197-102.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] * PiBot sets mode +v swiley
[1:13] * fmfree (no@2002:84f1:bc64::84f1:bc64) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] * PiBot sets mode +v fmfree
[1:14] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] * PiBot sets mode +v passstab
[1:14] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@245-178.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:14] * no-name- (~no-name@180.237.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] * PiBot sets mode +v no-name-
[1:15] <DeviceZer0> so I got a email a little while ago saying I got a raspberry pi reserved....but the email comes from chtah.com.....
[1:16] <DeviceZer0> anyone seen spam like this? or is this legit?
[1:16] <Simon-> RS finally emailed me an hour ago
[1:16] <Simon-> it's even dated an hour ago...
[1:17] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:17] <DeviceZer0> element14 is the legit site right?
[1:17] <esotera> they're probably being conservative about anything that could generate traffic
[1:18] * Xark_ finally got several "register interest" e-mails today from various countries and companies. :) I'll just ignore them and wait patiently for my Newark order (May 12th - ouch).
[1:18] <DeviceZer0> the email links me to element14 website
[1:18] <DeviceZer0> then when I check out it brings me to www.newark.com
[1:18] <toxibuny> I got the email from RS on the 1st. It was in my spam folder. Damn spam folder...
[1:18] <Xark_> DeviceZer0: Yes, Element14 is the "parent" for Newark, Farnell etc.
[1:19] <DeviceZer0> Xark_, ok awesome.
[1:19] <nplus> DeviceZer0: element14 and newark are both partners of Farnell
[1:19] <nplus> you win this time..
[1:19] <normod> element 14 is Silicon
[1:19] <flaushy> element14 sounds good (Farnell)
[1:20] <toxibuny> I like the site they've made, with the forum and the FAQs and specs and all...
[1:20] <Xark_> DeviceZer0: They have a nice Pi site too (with some interesting videos, documents a forum): http://www.element14.com/community/groups/raspberry-pi?ICID=hp_raspberry
[1:20] <toxibuny> And videos, yeah.
[1:21] <nplus> my expected delivery date from Export Farnell is April 23
[1:21] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:21] <toxibuny> Something about farnell rubs me up the wrong way though.
[1:22] * azalyn (~junon@modemcable007.174-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:22] * Xark_ was just watching the new "Pi-duino" video they just added (a "shield" for RaspPi that hooks an arduino to it): http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-43278/l/adding-a-gpio-expansion-board-to-the-raspberry-pi-video?ICID=rasp_group
[1:22] <zgreg> I still didn't get any expected delivery day from farnell, what's up with that?
[1:22] <fragalot> zgreg: they are trying to catch up with the orders
[1:23] <zgreg> that's with farnell germany
[1:23] <zgreg> fragalot: thing is, I ordered quite early
[1:23] <DeviceZer0> only the better model b is availible right?
[1:23] * azalyn (~junon@modemcable007.174-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:23] * PiBot sets mode +v azalyn
[1:23] <fragalot> zgreg: i placed a non-rpi-related order and even the automated order confirmation took days to get to me
[1:23] <ReggieUK> got to say that thing looks about the level of random arduino clone boards I knock up
[1:23] <Xark_> toxibuny: I found Element14 welcoming and they had a working "pre-order" link (perhaps RS does now...). :)
[1:23] <fragalot> DeviceZer0: yes
[1:23] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:23] <ReggieUK> it really shouldn't be called a pi sheild at all
[1:23] <zgreg> fragalot: the order confirmation arrived instantly
[1:24] <Xark_> DeviceZer0: Initially yes. However the upgrade the A model, so the only difference is a built in USB hub and ethernet (same RAM).
[1:24] <DeviceZer0> nice...nice. I just ordered one!
[1:25] <Xark_> DeviceZer0: I am curious to hear the date they quote you.
[1:25] * The_Ball (~The_Ball@122.150.108.38) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:25] * PiBot sets mode +v The_Ball
[1:25] <DeviceZer0> yea. I want both usba and ethernet
[1:25] <DeviceZer0> when placing the order it mentioned april 3rd I think
[1:25] <Xark_> DeviceZer0: Yes, many people who use both a keyboard AND a mouse may want that one. :)
[1:26] <Xark_> DeviceZer0: Nice. I'll hope my May date was just excessively conservative...
[1:26] <DeviceZer0> I plan to hook up a ir transmitter and play around with xbmc on it
[1:27] <DeviceZer0> Xark_, yea. Im just glad I was able to order one...thought I had snoozed to late
[1:27] <DeviceZer0> I gotta go! cya!
[1:27] <Xark_> DeviceZer0: Hehe, you an ~190K other people. :)
[1:27] <DeviceZer0> lol
[1:27] <Xark_> Take it easy
[1:28] <Hotroot> I'm waiting until somebody bundles at least an attatched keyboard and rechargeable battery.
[1:28] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.65.252.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:28] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[1:28] <ReggieUK> good grief
[1:28] <Hotroot> Possibly the holy trio with a small screen
[1:28] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.65.252.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[1:30] * Hotroot (~hotrootso@pool-71-106-166-159.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has left #raspberrypi
[1:31] <toxibuny> Xarc : the element 14 site looks great. And I know it's part of farnell somehow. I've just got some irrational dislike. Maybe it's because I think they're trying to oust the official forum, maybe it's because I'm still hoping to be told I'm only 400th in the queue at RS or something. I know it's wrong, but I can feel the stirrings of RS/farnell partisanism growing within me. I should just preorder with farnell to put
[1:32] * flaushy (~nooon@libre.fm/hacker/flaushy) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[1:32] <Xark_> toxibuny: Hehe. 400th sounds pretty sweet. I was wondering if it would be "poor form" to order from both Newark and RS (may the best distributer win!). :)
[1:33] <ReggieUK> not sure what their policy is for cancelled orders
[1:34] <des2> I have a feeling come May ebay will have auctions for 50,000 'extra' Raspberry PIs
[1:34] * strigel (51aefaee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.250.238) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[1:34] <Xark_> I only found the "decoy" register interest links on the first day (night...). Clicked on a slew of those (in several countries). Didn't receive confirmation... Then I stumbled on the element14 forum and they had a direct "pre-order" link (which confirmed May 12 right away)
[1:34] * flaushy (~nooon@p579007AD.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:34] * PiBot sets mode +v flaushy
[1:36] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.170.87) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:36] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D
[1:39] <toxibuny> Xarc: why not, if you've got the cash. I'm probably going to wait for a model a, if my RS lottery win doesn't cone through...
[1:39] * afief (~quassel@46-116-140-107.bb.netvision.net.il) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:41] * fmfree (no@2002:84f1:bc64::84f1:bc64) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:41] <Xark_> toxibuny: Yeah, the model A is a contender now. I think I'll wait until they are "flowing" before I order another (too many other "needy" nerds want a Pi). I am thinking one as a "open video game console" and perhaps one to play with a some hardware tinkering.
[1:41] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:41] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[1:41] <ReggieUK> I want an arm unit that works reasonably well out of the box and I won't have to do toooo much to get stuff working on
[1:41] <ReggieUK> it
[1:42] <ReggieUK> it'll make a nice change
[1:42] * fmfree (no@wlan-442-188-100-dhcp.CSUChico.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:42] * PiBot sets mode +v fmfree
[1:42] <Xark_> ReggieUK: Yes, a "standard platform" is the big thing the Pi offers for me (with accelerated GPU and enough power for decent games).
[1:42] <ReggieUK> it won't stop me arsing around with other arm devices (that aren't meant for devving) but yeah, standard platform is a nice description
[1:42] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:42] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[1:42] <toxibuny> I just want a thing to practice programming on thatbworks out of the box and is standard hardware for when something *doesn't*
[1:43] <ReggieUK> and cheap enough to break
[1:43] <Xark_> ReggieUK: Plus it is more fun (IMO) to code for limited platforms (where you can't just "require" more Ghz or GBs).
[1:43] <mkopack> Yay! Just got the Debian RPi image running inside of Qemu
[1:43] <ReggieUK> well, there's that too
[1:43] <mkopack> Thanks to ShiftPlusOne
[1:43] <ReggieUK> but I've been messing around with units like this
[1:43] <ReggieUK> http://sites.google.com/site/repurposelinux/df3120
[1:43] <ReggieUK> which is great fun getting stuff working
[1:43] * nemo (nemo@c-68-50-78-21.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:43] * PiBot sets mode +v nemo
[1:44] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:44] <nemo> Heeeey guys. So, I want to show a friend the raspberry pi
[1:44] <nemo> but when I access raspberrypi.org I get a message that says "you are banned"
[1:44] <nemo> what'd I do??
[1:44] <ReggieUK> but there are only limited supplies as they're usually end of life products by the time they're cheap enough to mess with
[1:44] <nemo> I'm accessing in w3m FWIW
[1:44] * hathawbg (~hathawbg@S0106602ad06f3022.no.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:44] * PiBot sets mode +v hathawbg
[1:44] <Dagger3> nemo: go to www.raspberrypi.org instead
[1:44] <ReggieUK> unlike the pi which should in theory be being built for years
[1:44] <mkopack> What did you do to get banned? :)
[1:45] <nemo> mkopack: I have no idea
[1:45] <Xark_> ReggieUK: That looks pretty nifty. I previous hacked around ARM on a Juicebox as well as my N800 (not to mention work projects on GBA/NDS).
[1:45] <nemo> Dagger3: thanks, that worked
[1:45] <ReggieUK> apparently the server admins don't like user names with n, m, e or o in them
[1:45] <mkopack> Man, I burned the hell out of my mouth just now eating some soup??? OUCH
[1:46] <ReggieUK> I always wondered about soup, do you eat it or drink it?
[1:46] * ploggy (~plog@cpc2-ptal4-2-0-cust132.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:46] * PiBot sets mode +v ploggy
[1:46] <mkopack> Slurp :)
[1:46] <ukscone> ReggieUK: you paint with it
[1:46] <ReggieUK> ahhh, that's where I've been going wrong
[1:47] * ReggieUK grabs a tin of mulligatawny and starts to do a mural
[1:47] <toxibuny> I'm looking forward to some of the games the 15-yr-old whizzkids are going to come out with...
[1:47] <ploggy> hiya fellas. anyone in uk manage to grab 1 yet.. what was the total price inc shipping?
[1:47] <ReggieUK> oh god no, another snake
[1:47] <mkopack> Ok, Debian image - with X started and a Terminal window open - 106MB used...
[1:47] <Xark_> toxibuny: Yeah, sound be plenty for some great stuff (and plays easily on the living room TV).
[1:47] <Xark_> should^
[1:47] <Xark_> toxibuny: I also like the idea of OpenGL ES w/o X (which is a waste of RAM for a game).
[1:48] <ukscone> ReggieUK: grab a can of tomato too. it'll be quite nice with red highlights
[1:48] <ReggieUK> looking forward to a platform that doesn't rely on glitz to make it usable
[1:48] <ReggieUK> ukscone, got any suggestions for a sky coloured soup?
[1:49] <des2> That's an interesting picture frame ReggieUK
[1:49] <ReggieUK> nvm, I'll just do a sunset
[1:49] <ReggieUK> des2, yeah, nice little units
[1:49] <ukscone> ReggieUK: not really but you could eat some blue crayons and just throw up ober the area you want sky
[1:49] <mkopack> This is fun??? OSX, running Parallels, with Ubuntu inside it, and THAT is running Qemu to emulate the RPi!
[1:50] <UnaClocker> mkopack: You're my kind of freak. ;)
[1:50] <ReggieUK> leek, potato and stilton
[1:50] <ReggieUK> that'd do it
[1:50] <ukscone> mkopack: you are missing the final layer -- a z80 emulator inside qemu
[1:50] <ReggieUK> I get clouds out of a tin too that way
[1:50] * crackm (~chatzilla@brln-4db871bd.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:51] <Xark_> mkopack: Turtles all the way down!
[1:51] <zgreg> z80? pfff
[1:51] <mkopack> lol
[1:51] <UnaClocker> Qemu runs on OSX, why do it inside of Parallels?
[1:51] <ukscone> i've had windows running virtualbox running ubuntu running qemu running FUSE (speccy emu) running a zx81 emulator before
[1:51] <toxibuny> An Amiga emulator running a z80 emulator...
[1:52] <Xark_> toxibuny: Now you are talking...and a Z-80 system can emulate a 4004 or something. :)
[1:52] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:52] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[1:52] <zgreg> mkopack: 106 MB of actual physical memory? sounds unlikely/too much
[1:52] <ukscone> someone should get qemu running on a 4004 :)
[1:53] * Xark_ wonders what the Guinness World Record is for "most latency after a keystroke due to nested emulations" is...
[1:53] <mkopack> That's what Top was saying used
[1:53] <ukscone> xark: i
[1:53] <ukscone> w
[1:53] <ukscone> i
[1:53] <ukscone> l
[1:53] <ukscone> l
[1:53] <ukscone>
[1:53] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-168-9.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has left #raspberrypi
[1:53] <ukscone> t
[1:53] <SpeedEvil> Xark_: hours possibly for FPGA implementations of CPUs.
[1:53] <ukscone> e
[1:53] <ukscone> l
[1:53] <ukscone> l
[1:53] <ukscone> y
[1:53] <ukscone> o
[1:53] <ukscone> u
[1:53] <ukscone>
[1:53] <ukscone> l
[1:53] <ukscone> a
[1:53] <ukscone> t
[1:53] <ukscone> e
[1:53] <ukscone> r
[1:54] <ukscone> :)
[1:54] <Xark_> :)
[1:54] <SpeedEvil> Xark_: For example all-up implementations of modern pentiums say.
[1:54] <zgreg> mkopack: that probably includes mmap'ed files and other types of virtual memory
[1:55] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:55] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals
[1:55] <nemo> mkopack: yeah, I'm rather confused myself...
[1:55] <toxibuny> Ukscone: about the same as the lag between keystrokes when posting to the raspi forums on my phone then...
[1:56] <Xark_> SpeedEvil: Yeah. I remember (few years ago) reading about Intel testing the latest chip and they said it took "days" to boot to a DOS prompt. :) Now the machines are faster...but a Windows prompt sounds daunting. :)
[1:56] <nemo> mkopack: my vague guess was that during the two hours after launch, when I was trying to get any link to any site to work, I loaded their page every 5 minutes or so
[1:56] <nemo> mkopack: but... it has worked since. heck. I pulled it up to show another guy here just 15 minutes ago
[1:56] <nemo> so that's a wild guess
[1:56] <mkopack> Dunno nemo
[1:57] <nemo> oh. wait. I showed it to that guy on the other IP. hmmmm. :(
[1:58] <SpeedEvil> I've had no email ack of my preorder on RS
[1:58] <SpeedEvil> should I have?
[1:58] <toxibuny> Probably by now. Have you checked your spam folder?
[1:59] <des2> Apparently mkopack is trying to prepare himself for what happens if the Pi pages out to SD
[1:59] <Xark_> SpeedEvil: I think there was a tweet saying they are "overwhelmed" and bear with them...
[1:59] <mkopack> LOL..
[1:59] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:00] <UnaClocker> Need an SD to SATA adapter. ;)
[2:00] <mkopack> lol
[2:00] <Xark_> UnaClocker: Yeah, or an SSD in SD form factor...
[2:00] <Xark_> :)
[2:00] <UnaClocker> Yeah
[2:00] <UnaClocker> Class 50
[2:00] <mkopack> LEt's see what it says when X is shut down
[2:00] <des2> Really just use the SD to boot then use a USB harddisk.
[2:01] * Xark_ has a USB -> SATA which works nicely (but it is a tad slower than a good USB drive...)
[2:01] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[2:01] <ReggieUK> you only need the sd card to load the kernel, do what you like after that
[2:02] <toxibuny> I've got a USB>idea and a 4gb ancient laptop HD for swap...
[2:02] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB35BA.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:02] * PiBot sets mode +v uen|
[2:02] <UnaClocker> Ancient 4gb laptop drive is going to be SLOW..
[2:02] <mkopack> Yeah, the Debian image only gives you like 2GB so there's like no room to install much else??? Good thing I bought a 16GB one
[2:03] <UnaClocker> I've been running Debian on a 8gb SD card in my Sheevaplug for over 2 years now.. Still using less than half of it.
[2:03] <toxibuny> Oh, okay then. I thought it'd be faster than SD at least...
[2:04] <UnaClocker> Mmm, looks like I'm up to 60%, but most of that is my website..
[2:04] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[2:04] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[2:04] * nemo (nemo@c-68-50-78-21.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has left #raspberrypi
[2:04] <toxibuny> I'm going the 'use stuff you've already got' route, rather than the 'buy lots of accessories ' one...
[2:05] * androidbruce is now known as androidbruce-afk
[2:05] <UnaClocker> toxibuny: Does help keep costs down.
[2:05] * Xark_ wonders if Fedora memory footprint differs significantly from Debian (hard-float means you generally don't want to use Thumb mode, so code size might be larger if it is all ARM [32-bit] vs Thumb [16-bit]).
[2:05] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] * PiBot sets mode +v customtronics
[2:06] * uen (~uen@p5DCB107B.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:06] * uen| is now known as uen
[2:07] <Flea86> Xark: hard-float? sounds kinky.. :)
[2:07] <mkopack> OK, no LXDE (X) running - 38568K used, 217384k free
[2:08] <mkopack> Keep in mind, I'm using the default (middle) GPU kernel, so might be able to get that down a bit if I used the small one and stayed in console only mode
[2:10] <Xark_> mkopack: Hmm, that is pretty good for being in X and all booted. Is it running "normal" Linux services (networking, daemons etc.)?
[2:10] * imnichol (~ian@8.24.97.104) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[2:10] <mkopack> No, that's NOT in X??? That's console only...
[2:10] <mkopack> With X using LXDE it's a little over 100MB use
[2:11] * Xark_ should setup his Qemu. Kind of painful under OS X (I got it working last time in Ubuntu under VMWare on Win7).
[2:11] * kilohelo (~freenode_@69.61.67.40) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:11] * PiBot sets mode +v kilohelo
[2:11] <RichiH> mkopack: using actual hardware or emulation?
[2:11] <mkopack> So ~39M console only, 100MB with X
[2:11] <mkopack> emulation...
[2:11] <Xark_> mkopack: Ahh, misread. :)
[2:11] <RichiH> k
[2:11] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:11] <mkopack> But it's using the RPi Debian build
[2:12] <Xark_> I guess Fedora hasn't quite been released yet...
[2:13] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: Station breakdown)
[2:14] * Naphatul (~Naphatul@77.29.129.34) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:19] <mkopack> Not yet??? Hopefully soon??? Somehow I'm betting they'll wait until they get an actually production board to test on.
[2:19] <mkopack> To be honest though, from what I've read/seen I think I'd prefer to stick with the Debian build. The Fedora build is based on an older version of Fedora and they won't be up to the modern version for a few months yet.
[2:22] <Xark_> mkopack: Yeah, that is an issue with Fedora (over the short term). However, hard-float is a challenge (from what I know about it), so if they are there first, I'll go with them (as it will be important on this CPU for gaming I believe). I am really curious if they will get Broadcom support to recompile the "closed" libraries for hard-float (or if they add a shim or other kludge).
[2:24] <mkopack> Guess we'll just have to wait and see
[2:26] <Xark_> mkopack: One nice thing is that on Rasp Pi it should not a big deal to "dual boot" (with multiple SD cards or partitions). :) This will help make it less of a problem to "fragment" the user base.
[2:27] <UnaClocker> Mmm, didn't know I could order from Allied Electronics here in the US.. Just ordered more Pi.
[2:27] <mkopack> yeah agreed??? just pull the card, pop in another and try something else out
[2:27] <des2> Why not Newark ?
[2:27] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
[2:27] <mkopack> Una: Are they actually taking orders there now?
[2:27] <UnaClocker> des2: They gave me a May 11th ship date, I did order, just hedging my bets.
[2:27] <mkopack> The other day they were just doing "register interest"
[2:27] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@91.85.220.26) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[2:28] <UnaClocker> mkopack: Yup, they're taking orders.
[2:28] <mkopack> Nice They give you a ship date yet?
[2:28] <Xark_> mkopack: Especially nice for "game console" use (pop in a [virtual] cartridge).
[2:28] <UnaClocker> Nope
[2:28] <mkopack> Let us know if you get one
[2:28] <mkopack> My Newark order is May 11th as well??? (and a second one on May 14)
[2:29] <Xark_> It does seem rather unlikely that RS and Element14 will be comparing mailing addresses. :)
[2:29] <UnaClocker> My friend just ordered one TODAY from Newark and got a April 3rd ship date?!?
[2:29] <UnaClocker> Yeah, I plan to order from RS as well, as soon as they let me..
[2:30] <Xark_> UnaClocker: Yeah, I ordered a day or two ago and got May 12...
[2:30] <toxibuny> Isn't one of the features of an SD card some sort of copy protection? There could be a business model for games there if raspi sells enough units... or am I talking out of my arsed?
[2:30] <toxibuny> -d
[2:31] <ReggieUK> not exactly out of your arse
[2:31] <mkopack> Wonder if there's a way to get this QEMU to emulate a bigger display?
[2:31] <ReggieUK> there are copy protection on full sized SD cards
[2:31] <Xark_> toxibuny: Well, I believe the spec is SD/MMC. AFAIK, SD part (the "secure" format) is mostly ignored (and requires extra license fees).
[2:31] <des2> Copy Protection doesn't work.
[2:31] <ReggieUK> but in essence, if you wanted to get at the contents it'd be a moot point
[2:32] <mkopack> Una: I bet he got that as an initial date, (on the order screen) but when he gets his order confirmation email it'll show later
[2:32] <ReggieUK> nope, no extra licensing afaik, it's not ignored, people just don't use it particularly in normal use
[2:32] <Xark_> "Jailbreaking" a Raspberry Pi will not be a particular challenge. :)
[2:33] <passstab> lol
[2:33] <mute> jails! noooooooo
[2:33] <piofcube> Xark_: warehousebreaking is the real challenge here LOL
[2:33] <passstab> apple will make illegal anyways
[2:33] * ploggy (~plog@cpc2-ptal4-2-0-cust132.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:34] <toxibuny> They'll claim copyright infringement on the use if fruit in the name ;)
[2:34] <Xark_> ReggieUK: It is the Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM or CPPM) that requires licensing (according to Wikipedia).
[2:34] * oldtopman thought BlackBerry would be all over the name.
[2:34] <des2> Steve Jobs is dead. Apple will be crushed by a giant android.
[2:35] <piofcube> I read a while ago that Apple wre very upset with our UK television group... They wanted to launch the apple iTV but ITV didn't want to change its name.
[2:35] <toxibuny> :D
[2:35] <piofcube> "But we are apple!" ;-)
[2:36] <mrdragons> So what happened?
[2:36] <piofcube> Nothing... they chose the name appletv or something instead
[2:36] <Xark_> mrdragons: I think they are in negotiations to just buy the entire country... :)
[2:36] <mrdragons> heh
[2:37] <mkopack> Hey, with all the money they have they just about can AFFORD to!
[2:37] <piofcube> I also read they sued the Beatles... because their record lable was called apple
[2:37] <des2> Actually Apple records sued Apple computer
[2:37] <des2> They reached a settlement.
[2:37] <piofcube> Oh? LOL
[2:37] <des2> Then there was a 2nd lawsuit
[2:37] <des2> (later on)
[2:37] <passstab> duh
[2:37] <des2> ANd a 2nd settlement
[2:38] <UnaClocker> Yeah, that Apple records thing was back before Apple Inc was bigger than Exxon. ;)
[2:38] <toxibuny> How can you have a second lawsuit when the first one got settled?
[2:38] <toxibuny> IANAL
[2:38] <des2> Because Apple Computer got back into the music besinesss
[2:39] <toxibuny> ah...
[2:39] <des2> Which they agreed not to do as part of the 1st settlement
[2:39] <toxibuny> That makes sense
[2:40] <des2> Fortnately there's no Apple Raspberry anything
[2:41] <UnaClocker> So long as nobody ports iOS to the Pi.. hehehe..
[2:41] * oldtopman feels a need to contribute the the raspberry pi
[2:41] <oldtopman> ArmedSlack is already ready to go :<
[2:41] <mkopack> Just got an email from the RPI Foundation??? Appolgozing for the notification emails not getting out in time
[2:41] <Xark_> UnaClocker: You know people will try. :)
[2:41] <zgreg> hard-float? on armv6?
[2:41] <oldtopman> They just won't publish until they get a raspi to test themselves :<
[2:41] <UnaClocker> mkopack: Yeah, I got that 3 hours ago.. I registered on their list really early on.
[2:41] <Xark_> zgreg: Yes...
[2:41] <oldtopman> waitwat
[2:42] <oldtopman> The *raspberrypi.org* mailing list is where I have to sign up, not rs components?
[2:42] <zgreg> most distributions target hard-float only from armv7, I doub't we'll see a functional hard-float port for armv6
[2:42] <piofcube> Good job copyright ran out on the Susa tablets (2,000BC) or the use of PI might be problematic ;-)
[2:42] <mkopack> old: No, you're fine...
[2:42] <oldtopman> zgreg: Are you talking to me?
[2:42] <zgreg> oldtopman: no
[2:42] <oldtopman> ah.
[2:42] <zgreg> not specifically, at least
[2:42] <oldtopman> AS supports Armv4 as a minimum target :P
[2:42] <mkopack> The Rpi mailing list was SUPPOSED to let us know before they went on sale when they were goig to be on sale??? But the emails for that didn't get out in time
[2:43] <oldtopman> oh
[2:43] <Xark_> zgreg: Well according to Fedora remix wiki it is hardfloat for RP. It totally makes sense as why increase the handicap on the pool 700Mhz ARMv6.
[2:43] <UnaClocker> Isn't the Pi ARMv11?
[2:43] <Xark_> poor^
[2:43] <zgreg> Xark_: really?
[2:43] <zgreg> UnaClocker: no
[2:43] <oldtopman> UnaClocker: Nope. v6
[2:43] <UnaClocker> I get all these ARM variants confused..
[2:43] <Xark_> UnaClocker: Yes, it is ARM11 aka ARMv6
[2:43] <UnaClocker> Still a step up from the v5 in my SheevaPlug..
[2:43] <Xark_> Trust me...
[2:43] <zgreg> UnaClocker: ARMv6 = arm architecture, version 6
[2:43] <zgreg> UnaClocker: ARM11 = some ARM core that implements ARMv6
[2:43] <piofcube> Yes, it's very easy to get confused with such naming schemes
[2:44] * codesnow (~codesnow@72.53.127.167) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:44] * PiBot sets mode +v codesnow
[2:44] <des2> Your Arm goes up to 11 ?
[2:44] <ReggieUK> they go up to 13 don't they?
[2:44] <zgreg> UnaClocker: ARMv6 isn't a big step up, though
[2:44] <Xark_> See this page if you need reassurance: http://www.riscosopen.org/wiki/documentation/show/ARMv7%20compatibility%20primer
[2:44] * ReggieUK wonders what will be after ARMv6, as arm7 chips exist
[2:45] <zgreg> ARMv6 includes some SIMD support, but it's extremely primitive, less useful than MMX...
[2:45] <Xark_> zgreg: A few new opcodes and whatnot, but I agree.
[2:45] <zgreg> I wonder why ARM even implemented it
[2:45] <UnaClocker> Heh, especially given that the Plug is 1.2GHz..
[2:45] <Xark_> The main "weird" thing about the RP CPU (compatibility wise) is that is lacks the Thumb2 mode of ARMv7.
[2:45] <UnaClocker> And has 512mb ram..
[2:45] <Xark_> (and NEON SIMD....)
[2:45] <zgreg> Xark_: huh?
[2:46] <zgreg> Xark_: what are you talking about?
[2:46] <ctyler> and vfp3 <- can run hardfp abi
[2:46] <mkopack> Una: I have one of those??? Gave up trig to use it??? Couldn't ever figure out how to get a modern OS onto it??? Just one headache after another. Managed to get Debian Squeeze on it and then dd something that promptly filled the onboard flash and it crashed so I just said screw it
[2:46] <mkopack> There just wasn't enough support for me to find info to find out how to do things
[2:47] <zgreg> UnaClocker: the ARM core in the shivaplug might be clocked at a high speed, but it's still a dog
[2:47] <UnaClocker> mkopack: Mmm, it seemed so natural to me.. I've had a blast with it.
[2:47] <Xark_> Xark_: The main compatibility issue (usermode) is that the Rasp Pi CPU doesn't have the Thumb2 mode of the ARMv7 and the NEON SIMD. Other than that, it is nearly identical.
[2:47] <mkopack> Well, I'm not much of a linux guy..
[2:47] <mkopack> I'm ok as a USER but HORRIBLE as a sysadmin in Linux...
[2:47] <UnaClocker> zgreg: That's cool. I hope the Pi runs circles around it.
[2:47] <piofcube> What about ThumbEE or is that a daft question?
[2:47] <zgreg> Xark_: well, not exactly...
[2:47] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:48] <Xark_> zgreg: More or less (I am an ARM asm coder, so I have studied the manual).
[2:48] <zgreg> Xark_: it's not that simple
[2:48] <zgreg> VFP is also different, etc.
[2:48] <Xark_> zgreg: True, but NEON "acts" like it as a VFP (so it isn't a large compatibility difference).
[2:49] <zgreg> UnaClocker: if I remember correctly, the ARM core in the sheevaplug does not even have an FPU
[2:49] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:49] * PiBot sets mode +v smw
[2:49] <mkopack> Una: So I need really clear directions that explain how to do things, without tons of ambiguity.. and that just didn't exist for the plug???
[2:49] <UnaClocker> zgreg: Yeah, pretty sure it doesn't.
[2:50] <Xark_> zgreg: I just make sure the opcode says "ARMv6" (and not "ARMv6T2") and I believe it will work on RP (again for usermode - not talking kernel details). :)
[2:51] <zgreg> Xark_: do you know how useful the ARMv6 SIMD instructions are in practice?
[2:52] <zgreg> they're are so simple and restricted I assume not very useful, but you never know
[2:52] <Xark_> zgreg: Well, NEON is great. I consider VFP just a FPU (but it can "loop" over two floats for lame vector stuff I believe). :)
[2:52] <toxibuny> Does the raspi have full hardware floating point stuff?
[2:52] <zgreg> Xark_: I don't mean NEON
[2:52] <Xark_> toxibuny: Yes, VFP is the FPU
[2:52] <zgreg> and yes, VFP is non NEON
[2:53] <zgreg> err, non SIMD :)
[2:53] <zgreg> that was a nice marketing trick to call it "vector" floating point
[2:53] <Xark_> zgreg: Yeah, I get that. I just want a FPU (and not pay a large price passing floats). :)
[2:53] <toxibuny> SIMD?
[2:54] <zgreg> anyway, ARMv6 includes some very simple integer SIMD instructions that work on 8/16 bit values in a regular 32 bit register
[2:54] <zgreg> so in the best case, you should be able to get about 4x speedup, but that's very unlikely to ever happen
[2:54] <Xark_> toxibuny: Single Instruction Multiple Data. It is where (e.g.) you do 4 x float32 multiplies at once (in parallel). AKA Altivec, SSE on other CPUs.
[2:54] <toxibuny> it's still a huge deal compared to no hardware FP at all though?
[2:54] <toxibuny> Ah.
[2:55] <Xark_> zgreg: For "lite" integer DSP type uses and stuff it looked like.
[2:55] <Xark_> zgreg: Probably not too useful for games.
[2:55] <passstab> do we have any idea when they make the "stable" boards?
[2:55] <toxibuny> Do later ARM chips have SIMD?
[2:56] <Xark_> toxibuny: It is a chip option, but most new phones and iDevices include it now (and it replaces the VFP).
[2:56] <zgreg> toxibuny: NEON is the SIMD instruction set ARM is popular for
[2:56] <zgreg> toxibuny: it's supported on all newer cores, but not on the ARM11 used in the rpi
[2:57] <zgreg> Xark_: nope, it does not replace VFP
[2:57] <zgreg> that's why Cortex-A8 sucks so much with FP
[2:57] * androidbruce-afk is now known as androidbruce
[2:57] <zgreg> A8 has NEON, and a stripped down VFP unit (VFP-lite, non-pipelined)
[2:57] <Xark_> zgreg: More or less (from a programming perspective). Let us just say that is it very difficult to know which opcodes are VFP and which are NEON (and they use the same registers).
[2:58] <Xark_> zgreg: AFAIK it is not even documented if it is implemented in NEON or VFP...
[2:58] <zgreg> so, basically, all floating-point is fucking slow by default
[2:58] <mkopack> Ok, anyone know how to use the command line aptitude package manager (i.e., text mode software) ??
[2:58] <Xark_> (per opcode).
[2:58] <zgreg> Xark_: you should read about the RunFast mode, it's documented
[2:58] <mkopack> trying to figure out how to install java??? I found it in the aptitude list, but I can't figure out how to mark it for install
[2:58] <zgreg> the RunFast mode allows certain (single-precision) VFP opcodes to be offloaded to the NEON unit
[2:59] <toxibuny> Why would games need floating point in the CPU when gpus nowadays do vertex transform, lighting, shading, and all that?
[2:59] <zgreg> but not all, and with some overhead (AFAIK)
[2:59] <Xark_> zgreg: Ok, will I should state that I am mostly familiar with A9 (so it is different from A8 with vfp-lite).
[2:59] <zgreg> plus, if you need double precision, you're screwed
[2:59] <zgreg> double precision float is probably TEH weakness of the A8
[2:59] <Xark_> zgreg: I never need that (games again). :)
[2:59] * JonSeals_ (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:59] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals_
[3:00] <zgreg> A9 has a very capable VFP unit, yeah
[3:00] <Xark_> zgreg: The RP VFP can do double precision, correct?
[3:00] <ReggieUK> mkopack, https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/apt-get.html
[3:00] <zgreg> it's pipelined and can actually issue two FP ops per cycle, as far as I know
[3:00] <zgreg> Xark_: yes
[3:00] <Xark_> zgreg: However, a9 has some NEON hazards that are actually crappy vs A8 (it was surprising...
[3:01] <zgreg> Xark_: huh?
[3:01] <zgreg> Xark_: like optional NEON? :D
[3:01] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[3:01] * JonSeals_ is now known as JonSeals
[3:01] <mkopack> reggie I figure it out
[3:01] <zgreg> Xark_: and lol tegra2? :D
[3:01] <ReggieUK> it's pretty simple
[3:01] <mkopack> turns out you can use the mouse to click on the menus and such. it was just really slggish
[3:01] * DJW|Home (djwillis@cpc1-bath5-2-0-cust122.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:01] * PiBot sets mode +v DJW|Home
[3:01] <mkopack> No, WTF did they set the root password on this RPi debian image to??
[3:01] <zgreg> no NEON on tegra2... *what where they thinking?*
[3:01] <Xark_> zgreg: Apparently even though NEON isn't pipelined on A8 it has a prefetch (that works well). The A9 doesn't have this (it is much smarter overall, but you need to add manual prefetch or you can stall on memory).
[3:02] <zgreg> Xark_: but NEON is pipelined on the A8
[3:02] <Xark_> zgreg: Hmm, sorry I mean super-scaler.
[3:02] <zgreg> A8 is also superscalar
[3:02] <Xark_> zgreg: Not for NEON AFAIK
[3:03] <zgreg> yeah, probably true, though not sure
[3:03] * mmaton (~Max@host-2-98-120-141.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:03] * PiBot sets mode +v mmaton
[3:03] <Xark_> zgreg: Pretty sure (I have been benchmarking a lot of stuff). :)
[3:03] <zgreg> but the regular integer pipeline is superscalar, dual-issue
[3:03] * biffskin (~chatzilla@42-98-126-215.static.netvigator.com) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0/20111206234556])
[3:04] <Xark_> zgreg: I really like the A9, but just saying there are a few things to watch out for (that A8 had covered). I was a bit surprised (but the internal workings of the ARM chips are poorly documented "down the the cycle" - by design no doubt).
[3:04] * mmaton (~Max@host-2-98-120-141.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
[3:05] <zgreg> well, ARM needs to balance power consumption vs. die area vs. computing power
[3:05] * DJWillis (djwillis@cpc1-bath5-2-0-cust122.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:05] <Xark_> zgreg: I find I have to try lots of permutations to see what really works best.
[3:05] <zgreg> I was also surprised to find out that the A8 has the very crappy VFP-lite unit
[3:06] <Xark_> zgreg: Yeah. I read about that from a bunch of iPhone/iPad develop blogs. :)
[3:06] <Xark_> ^game developer
[3:06] <zgreg> apparently, ARM11 actually is quite a bit faster than A8 at double precision FP, at the same clock speed
[3:06] <mkopack> OK, installing Java on the RPi image :)
[3:07] <des2> Abandon all hope mkopack
[3:07] <zgreg> that's very unlikely to matter for typical ARM applications, but it's still interesting to know
[3:07] <Xark_> mkopack: OpenJDK?
[3:07] <mkopack> des: LOL??? I'm a java dev, so getting java working on this is interesting for me
[3:07] <mkopack> yeah
[3:08] <Xark_> Does anybody know if you can use Dalvik VM outside of Android? That might be interesting...
[3:09] * techman2 (~gj@121.209.129.135) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:09] * PiBot sets mode +v techman2
[3:09] <mkopack> probably not??? I'm assuming it does some stuff closely tied to the underlying OS
[3:10] <zgreg> mkopack: which is... linux
[3:10] <mkopack> Yes and no??? It's a special version of Linux???
[3:10] <zgreg> the only really special part is binder
[3:10] <mkopack> Android isn't pure linux.. it doesn't some additional stuff in between
[3:10] <Xark_> zgreg: Well, hopefully ARM11 + OpenGL ES on the Pi will be enough to do at least iPad level games (perhaps better in some respects - if Eben is correct in his boasts).
[3:10] <zgreg> and I'm not even sure it's required for dalvik to run
[3:11] <mkopack> If it's possible, I'm sure somebody will try!
[3:11] <zgreg> mkopack: actually, the essential android extensions have been merged in the latest kernel
[3:11] <zgreg> binder and probably some more stuff
[3:11] <Xark_> Yeah. I will leave the interpreted stuff to someone else anyways. I am all about native code. :)
[3:11] <oldtopman> so...found out that the RAM is shared between the GPU and system :/
[3:11] <zgreg> oldtopman: what did you expect?
[3:12] <oldtopman> zgreg: Just didn't occur to me.
[3:12] <Xark_> oldtopman: Yep. You can pick the partition size (128/64/32 MB for GPU IIRC).
[3:12] <oldtopman> indeed.
[3:12] <mkopack> oldtop: Yeah, but you have your choice of 3 different images
[3:12] <Xark_> oldtopman: Is that bumming you out (just thought you had a bit more RAM to play with)?
[3:12] <mkopack> So you can pick what you want to use based on your needs.
[3:13] <mkopack> If you stay all command line, go with the 32MB, if you wanna do graphics, go with the 128
[3:13] <oldtopman> Eh, 156 is fine, but 128 is a touch low.
[3:13] <oldtopman> 256*
[3:13] <oldtopman> How hard is it to switch?
[3:13] <Xark_> oldtopman: I believe you rename the binary blob on the SD.
[3:13] <oldtopman> oic
[3:13] <mkopack> yeah, it's pretty straightforward
[3:14] <mkopack> just copy the blob of the 3 you want to use to the right filename and reboot
[3:14] * oldtopman adds it into the shutdown script "Reboot into GFX mode/Reboot and Reset/Reboot into CMD mode/Reboot in balanced"
[3:14] <Lerc> So who is working on the GLES support under X? I have many questions for them.
[3:15] <zgreg> Lerc: nobody, as far as I know
[3:15] <des2> Lerc did you try the developer's channel ?
[3:15] <zgreg> Lerc: basic 2D accel for X is much more important, and that's still not working
[3:15] <Lerc> There's a dev channel?
[3:15] <oldtopman> des2: There's a dev channel?
[3:15] <des2> Um yes.
[3:15] <Xark_> Lerc: Yes, but it is idle-time there AFACT.
[3:15] * ploggy (~plog@cpc2-ptal4-2-0-cust132.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:15] * PiBot sets mode +v ploggy
[3:16] <Lerc> zgreg: 2d&3d should be both gles based.
[3:16] * ploggy (~plog@cpc2-ptal4-2-0-cust132.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:16] <zgreg> Lerc: sure. but 2D acceleration needs to be tackled before EGL integration.
[3:17] <oldtopman> des2: Where is it?
[3:17] <des2> #raspberrypi-dev
[3:17] <mkopack> and now that I've loaded java on the debian image, I have like 53MB free space on the roofs??? doh!
[3:18] <Lerc> zgreg: I mean they should be effectivly one and the same implementation. Provide the interface to EGL and it can do all the acceleration.
[3:18] <zgreg> I'm not super familar with EGL, but I assume integration of EGL into X needs some sort of wrapper library that bridges X pixmaps and EGL render buffers.
[3:18] <zgreg> but that's a pretty theoretical issue as long as there is no capable 2D accel
[3:19] <Xark_> OpenGL may have all kinds of power-of-two restrictions and stuff that make a nice 2D API still desirable (often).
[3:19] <zgreg> Lerc: can you elaborate? 2D is a LOT different, especially since you need to implement an EXA-accelerating driver
[3:20] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
[3:20] <zgreg> Lerc: or if not EXA, maybe even a custom acceleration architecture, like intel's "glamor"
[3:20] <oldtopman> Will it be possible to just have one giant ext2fs partition?
[3:20] <Xark_> Isn't there also another API supported (OpenMAX) that can do blitting and compositing etc.?
[3:20] <Xark_> oldtopman: You will still need tiny FAT for GPU to boot from.
[3:20] <zgreg> Xark_: james told me there's a DMA engine for simple blits and fills
[3:21] <zgreg> Xark_: that might be a viable choice for a basic 2D driver
[3:21] <oldtopman> Xark_: So the fat32 can be really tiny?
[3:21] <Xark_> zgreg: OK, I know I read something about that.
[3:21] <Xark_> oldtopman: Sure. Just the binary blob, kernel and config file (AFAIK).
[3:21] <zgreg> Xark_: and GLES2 implementation MUST have limited NPOT texture support
[3:21] <zgreg> *implementation
[3:21] <oldtopman> awwww yea~
[3:21] <zgreg> s
[3:21] * oldtopman afks
[3:22] <Xark_> zgreg: Yes, but limited is often the key...
[3:22] <Xark_> zgreg: Also alignment restrictions etc.
[3:22] <zgreg> Xark_: I don't think mipmaps or repeat textures matter for 2D acceleration
[3:22] <zgreg> alignment is a bitch, indeed
[3:22] <Lerc> zgreg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXA "The solution was to move to hardware acceleration with OpenGL for both 2D and 3D graphics with 2D graphics becoming just a subset of 3D rendering."
[3:23] <zgreg> Lerc: that's plainly wrong
[3:23] <zgreg> Lerc: EXA is not synonymous with opengl at all
[3:23] <Xark_> zgreg: No, I doubt it. But I think we agree OpenGL ES is not "ideal" for low-level 2D "DMA/blit" engine (if there are other lower-overhead or nimble choices).
[3:23] <zgreg> Xark_: yeah, but it's not so bad either
[3:23] <zgreg> you don't need "low-level" blits for X anyway
[3:24] <Xark_> zgreg: No, not at all. I really like OpenGL ES 2.0 (I never liked the "legacy" opengl stuff piling up - that you had to remember to avoid).
[3:24] <Xark_> zgreg: Well, the X driver does...
[3:24] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.84.113.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:24] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[3:27] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.84.113.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:28] <zgreg> Xark_: depends on your definition of low-level, I guess?
[3:29] <zgreg> Xark_: EXA maps well to the restrictions of opengl es
[3:31] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.84.113.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:31] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[3:31] <mkopack> I
[3:31] <mkopack> I'll say one thing for sure after using this qemu???. Don't expect blazing performance from this CPU...
[3:31] <Xark_> zgreg: Yeah. I was just reading the wiki page. Sounds like a good plan and will probably make it easier to get decent X performance.
[3:32] <mkopack> This might be usable for kids, or for an embedded system, but it's far from blazingly fast for desktop use
[3:32] <Xark_> mkopack: Umm, why do you think your qemu experience will be similar to the real device (not that either will be speed demons)?
[3:33] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: QEMU may be _much_ slower than the real device.
[3:33] <zgreg> mkopack: qemu matches rpi's real performance? that would be news to me...
[3:33] <Xark_> mkopack: Does your qemu boot to X in 15 seconds? The real pi does (in videos). Not really too bad.
[3:33] <mkopack> Well, considering it's emulating the actual hardward, and my host OS is reporting that their laptop's CPU isn't even running at 50%???.
[3:33] <techman2> any idea of what sort of x86 CPU would have the equivalent performance?
[3:33] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: 50% = 1 core
[3:34] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: Emulation cannot usually use more than one core
[3:34] <mkopack> They say about a 300 MHZ Pentium
[3:34] <mkopack> Yeah, I'm talking 1 core??? is at only like 50%??? the other is about the same (Core 2 duo)
[3:34] <techman2> yeah, I read that
[3:34] <zgreg> techman2: should perform the same as an intel atom at 200-300 Mhz
[3:34] <Xark_> Hmm, I would have thought ARM was more cycle efficient.
[3:34] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: The point is that it's using 100% of one core - it's CPU limited
[3:35] <mkopack> NO, it's using 50% of 1 core??? I'm looking at the diplsays for each core
[3:35] <techman2> zgreg: I wouldn't have thought it would be quite that slow, with atom being an in order core.
[3:35] <zgreg> I really wonder if qemu can actually approximate a real cpu speed at all
[3:35] <SpeedEvil> What does md5sum /dev/zero show as using CPU-wise
[3:35] <SpeedEvil> mkopack:
[3:35] <zgreg> techman2: just like the ARM11?
[3:35] <mkopack> ON THE qemu or the host?
[3:36] * Xark_ prays it is not slower than his OLPC-1 geode @700Mhz (it is very painful to do anything on).
[3:36] <mkopack> (well remember I'm running Qemu on ubuntu which is running inside of Parallels on a Macbook)
[3:36] <zgreg> techman2: what's more, ARM11 is single issue, atom is dual-issue, has much more and faster cache, a very capable SIMD unit, etc.
[3:36] <des2> Intel atom at 200MHz would be painful
[3:36] <techman2> ouch
[3:36] <Xark_> mkopack: Sounds like a "tad" of overhead there. :)
[3:36] <Lerc> Xark_: The XO-1 wasn't that bad. It was the software mainly.
[3:37] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: Then top is lying to you - it's really maxing out one core
[3:37] <mkopack> Yeah, but like I said, it's not like the Core 2 Duo is running topped out
[3:37] <mkopack> I'm NOT running TOP dammit
[3:37] <mkopack> I'm looking at the CPU monitor on the mac...
[3:37] <mkopack> It splits out both cores
[3:37] <zgreg> techman2: actually, the cortex-a9 is the first arm cpu capable of beating an intel atom in performance per clock
[3:37] <SpeedEvil> What does md5sum /dev/zero on ubuntu show?
[3:37] <Xark_> Lerc: Yeah, I am hoping that is the case.
[3:38] <zgreg> techman2: but that doesn't even hold always
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[3:38] * PiBot sets mode +v A124
[3:38] <mkopack> The one inside of Qemu will be at 100% (the simulated arm) and the Host is only at like 50% in 1 of the cores
[3:38] <Xark_> Lerc: I recently installed a newer DebianXO build (with LXDE) and it now much more "usable" for some things.
[3:38] <mkopack> Crap, I can't get at any of the ubuntu windows while the qemu is running
[3:38] <techman2> zgreg: yeah, I have seen a few benchmarks.
[3:39] <mkopack> as soon as I click on the ubuntu desktop the Qemu takes control of the mouse
[3:39] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: As a check - dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=102400|md5sum -
[3:39] <SpeedEvil> on a broadly similar platform - arm 600MHz - takes 4s
[3:39] <Lerc> Here's a bunch of things I wrote to see what my XO could do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58UmxHryq8E
[3:39] <Dagger3> mkopack: presumably both cores are at about 50% though, not just one of them?
[3:40] <mkopack> yeah roughly.. depends how much I have the QEMU doing at the time
[3:40] <Lerc> Xark_: I ended up having to write my own widget engine and browser plugins but I cot it doing some nice things.
[3:40] <mkopack> if it's maxed to 100% then the host CPU meters are showing about 50% on each core
[3:40] * techman2 takes a trip down memory lane looking at the Pentium II page on wikipedia.
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[3:40] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[3:41] <mkopack> Either way, just saying, don't expect modern desktop performance out of this thing??? Especially if you open a couple things at the same time
[3:41] <mkopack> Just not enough RAM t do that
[3:41] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-168-9.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:41] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
[3:41] <zgreg> mkopack: obviously
[3:41] <DaQatz> <SpeedEvil> mkopack: As a check - dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=102400|md5sum - <-- that benchmark would look totaly awesoem on the system PiBot is on.
[3:41] <Dagger3> well, there you go. processes tend to end up split over all available cores like that; it would be using 100% of a single core if you set the CPU affinity to a single core
[3:42] <techman2> I don't plan on doing much more than running an IRC client and vim
[3:42] <zgreg> but I still see this problem, that many people have WAY too high expectations of what the rpi can do
[3:42] <DaQatz> Since it has a hardware md5sum
[3:42] <Xark_> Lerc: Wow that looks very nice. Night and day vs. the "desktop experience" I remember on my XO. :) Are you still working on it?
[3:42] <DaQatz> and Sha
[3:42] <zgreg> and the foundation is to blame for it a little bit, due to those nice XBMC and Q3 demos. :)
[3:42] <mkopack> Dammit, how many times do I have to tell you guys that when I try to click on the ubunuty desktop the QEMU takes over the mouse so I can't select ubnuty to open a terminal to try that???
[3:42] <des2> SpeedEvil's dd took 3.056 sec on my Pogoplug B01
[3:42] <Xark_> Lerc: I always thought the XO seemed more painful to use that then specs seems like it should to me. :)
[3:42] <Ben64> what is ubnuty
[3:42] <mkopack> ubuntu
[3:43] <DaQatz> Well that is a "poor" benchmark, though it's better then nothing.
[3:43] <mkopack> Stupid Qemu just takes over EVERYTHING the second I click onto my Ubuntu's desktop inside of Parallels
[3:43] <Lerc> Xark_: not on the XO anymore. their organization bugged me too much.
[3:43] <mkopack> Let me try that inside the Qemu though
[3:43] <des2> And 0.994 sec on my Intel Atom D510MO
[3:43] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:44] <Lerc> I have High hopes for the Raspberry Pi becasue they seem to be acting very un-OLPC ish.
[3:44] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:44] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[3:44] <Ben64> real 0m0.296s
[3:44] <DaQatz> That atom should be MUCH faster then pi or pogo
[3:44] <Lerc> If Eben starts doing photo shoots I'll start getting worried.
[3:45] <zgreg> 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 2.55316 s, 41.1 MB/s
[3:45] <mkopack> Crap, can't do that either. The keyboard mapping doesn't let me do the | symbol to pip to md5sum
[3:45] <des2> lol
[3:45] <zgreg> on cortex-a8 @ 500 MHz
[3:46] <mkopack> QEMU WORKS but it's far from stellar
[3:46] <zgreg> it's a TI AM3517
[3:46] <Xark_> Lerc: Yeah, me too. Plus already seems like a much larger user base. I have to say I was kind of disappointed in OLPC myself (but it is a fun little machine).
[3:46] <slaeshjag> zgreg: Hold on, give the args you send and I'll try on my pandora
[3:46] <Ben64> 3.48 seconds on my phone
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[3:47] * PiBot sets mode +v Nemo7
[3:47] <DaQatz> Pentium M @ 1.7ghz = 0.673778
[3:47] <zgreg> slaeshjag: should perform similar (per clock)...
[3:47] <DaQatz> So the arms are doing better then expected on that.
[3:47] <slaeshjag> zgreg: dd is not really a CPU test :)
[3:47] <zgreg> 0.36s on my athlon-ii
[3:47] <DaQatz> slaeshjag, you're right
[3:47] <SpeedEvil> slaeshjag: the test is md5sum - not dd
[3:48] <DaQatz> slaeshjag, md5'ing is a crappy benchmark
[3:48] <passstab> Lerc: what happend to olpc?
[3:48] <slaeshjag> Ah
[3:48] <SpeedEvil> And yes, it's a limited at best benchmark.
[3:48] <Lerc> Xark_: The machine is cool. If they actually went for community involvement they could have had some amazing stuff. R-Pi.org have done absolutely the right thing here in saying what they are doring and what they can't do, encouraging the community to help out.
[3:48] <techman2> you need to check the bogomips, now that's a reliable benchmark. ;)
[3:48] <Xark_> passstab: They are still chugging along I think. I think they are making a "pad" for kinds now or something...
[3:48] <Xark_> kids^
[3:49] <des2> Feel free to post your favorite 1-line cpu benchmark
[3:49] <passstab> i know
[3:49] <Ben64> glxgears
[3:49] <zgreg> Xark_: yes, it's a bit crazy. they want to distribute those by throwing from helicopters or something. just crazy.
[3:49] <passstab> i was just wondering what that ment
[3:49] <Ben64> :D
[3:49] <Lerc> passstab: They's still making new versions. Every now and again Nicolas Negroponte announces a new machine that runs on unicorn blood or something and everyone goes WTF.
[3:49] * codesnow (~codesnow@72.53.127.167) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[3:49] <zgreg> Lerc: what are kids actually doing with the XOs?
[3:49] <Xark_> zgreg: I'm with Lerc that I think the Raspberry Pi people seem to be taking a much more reasonable (and fun) approach. :)
[3:49] <zgreg> des2: openssl speed
[3:50] <zgreg> des2: that's actually a good and practical integer benchmark
[3:50] <des2> I thought the whole projectwas meant to delay until things were actually that cheap naturally.
[3:50] <slaeshjag> hmm... 3.3s on my pandora
[3:51] <Lerc> The people at the lower levels are doing good things, XOs are being shipped to countries where they are making a difference.
[3:51] <Xark_> slaeshjag: What is the CPU speed/type in your Pandora?
[3:51] <Lerc> The XO 1.75 is an Arm SOC system as well.
[3:51] <slaeshjag> Xark_: OMAP3530, this was at 600 MHz
[3:52] <zgreg> slaeshjag: odd, but maybe try a more useful benchmark
[3:52] <slaeshjag> 1.6s at 1.05 GHz
[3:52] <slaeshjag> 2.6*
[3:52] <Xark_> Lerc: Yeah. That hardware looked sweet. Still total vapor though, right? I think I saw a mockup/rendering (that looked very FanBoi worthy).
[3:52] <slaeshjag> 2.0
[3:52] <DaQatz> Hmm that's like a VIA
[3:52] <Lerc> If Rhombus tech get the A10 EOMA-68 card running I might try and fit that into the case for the XO-1.
[3:52] <Xark_> slaeshjag: Thanks.
[3:52] <zgreg> Lerc: I don't want to spoil it for you, but that's never going to happen
[3:53] <DaQatz> Rhombus smacks of vapour
[3:53] <Lerc> zgreg: if It doesn't then I won't :-)
[3:53] <DaQatz> But we will see.
[3:54] <Xark_> No doubt there will be other RP style clones soon too (if Rhombus fails).
[3:54] <zgreg> rhombus is just one lonely nerd
[3:54] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.84.113.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[3:54] <Xark_> zgreg: I didn't get a "yeah, I'll pre-order now" feeling from what I heard. )
[3:54] <Xark_> :)
[3:54] <Lerc> The XO 1.75 is the real deal. it's a new motherboard in the same case. The XO-3 went from rendered IPAD like device to clunky 8-inch android tab.
[3:54] <zgreg> that board will never be finished, and even if it would be, never at the announced price
[3:55] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:55] * PiBot sets mode +v Compy
[3:55] <Lerc> But hey. I can wait. I'm still waiting for my pandora :-)
[3:55] * xeba (~xeba@187.113.54.117) Quit (Quit: The 7 Deadly Sins: A cr?tica adorou. Mas pode usar que ? bom. ??[www.t7ds.com.br])
[3:55] <zgreg> I just think it's funny that people already declare the rhombus-tech board as an alternative for the rpi
[3:56] <zgreg> it does not exist in any form yet :)
[3:56] <Lerc> zgreg: It's an alternative when it exists.
[3:56] <Xark_> Lerc: I see. Yeah, I saw that pad. The 1.75 does look like a nice "evolutionary" improvement to the XO-1.
[3:56] <zgreg> sure, it might become an alternative, but at the moment it's not
[3:57] <zgreg> and I say it's extremely unlikely it'll ever become an alternative
[3:57] <Xark_> Lerc: I heard a rumor those might ship "RSN", do you have an ETA?
[3:57] <Xark_> (Pandora)
[3:58] <zgreg> and rhombus-tech is quite a snob, they already say they're cheaper than rpi
[3:58] <zgreg> despite their board not existing in *any* form
[3:58] <Lerc> Xark_: I think they are actually coming out the doors again now. still take some weeks to fill orders.
[3:58] <DaQatz> Say that when he actually has a product
[3:58] <mkopack> ok, this debian image is basically impossible to use on a US keyboard??? how the hell do I change the keyboard to US-EN mapping?
[3:58] <mkopack> I can't type | or ~ which makes doing a lot of shell stuff impossible
[3:59] <zgreg> >looks to be on target for around $15: 40% lower than the raspberrypi which is only a 700mhz ARM11 and is therefore at least three times slower in processor speed than the Allwinner A10.
[3:59] <zgreg> and the $15 is complete BS, too
[3:59] <zgreg> it's the BOM, not the price it'd be sold at.
[4:00] <DaQatz> dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
[4:00] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:00] <zgreg> and of course to get that price for the BOM the device needs to be made in masses (>= 100k according to rhombus)
[4:00] <Lerc> I think the computer on a card thing is an idea whose time has come. If not EOMA-68 someone else will do something in the next few years.
[4:01] <DaQatz> Or dpkg-reconfigure locales
[4:03] <Xark_> zgreg: So sounds like he is all set once he gets > 100K or so pre-orders. :)
[4:03] <Lerc> at least after last week people will believe there's a market for these things.
[4:05] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:05] * PiBot sets mode +v Magoggles
[4:05] <Xark_> Lerc: Yeah, if RP did nothing else they got (near) Apple level publicity about this type of product (which was amazing - still more news stories today). :)
[4:05] <techman2> it's been a long road for the pi though
[4:05] <techman2> 6 years to this point.
[4:05] <Xark_> techman2: Yes, they worked for their success.
[4:05] <techman2> absolutely
[4:08] <mkopack> ok, keyboard layout fixed
[4:08] * Xark_ remembers trying hard to get excited about the XGameStation (and related products) a few years ago, but just couldn't. RP is much cooler for my type of projects.
[4:09] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-168-9.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has left #raspberrypi
[4:09] <shirro> I hope angry birds doesn't get ported. It looks usable on the Roku2. I would have to get one for the wife :-(
[4:09] <Lerc> I liked the UzeBox, the XGameStation smelled a bit mothey
[4:09] * Christian9 (~christian@p57A3D64E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[4:09] <techman2> if I didn't have an order in for the pi I think I would be ordering the Efika smarttop.
[4:09] * codesnow (~codesnow@72.53.127.167) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:09] * PiBot sets mode +v codesnow
[4:10] <techman2> costs a lot more though.
[4:10] <Xark_> shirro: You may just have to settle/deal with with Angry-Tux. :) http://code.google.com/p/angry-tux/
[4:10] * netcarver (~netcarver@87.68.113.87.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:11] <Xark_> Lerc: Hmm UzeBox....
[4:11] * techman2 notes Element14 australian site is now quoting a 66 day lead time on stock
[4:11] * JonSeals_ (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:11] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals_
[4:12] <shirro> Are the Efikas any good? I keep looking at the netbook. I would love an arm netbook.
[4:12] <zgreg> Xark_: clones like that are rather lame
[4:13] <zgreg> Xark_: and wow, that "angrytux" games looks horrible :)
[4:13] <Xark_> zgreg: Yes, 99% of the time. :)
[4:13] * Nemo7 (nemo@nemo.org.org) Quit (Quit: Nemo7)
[4:13] <zgreg> I still can't type correctly today. s/games/game/
[4:14] <Xark_> zgreg: The charm of the original game is mostly in the graphics and sounds (but Box2D is open source, so expect to see lots of clones).
[4:14] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[4:14] * JonSeals_ is now known as JonSeals
[4:15] <techman2> shirro: I haven't been able to play with one so I'm not sure, they do look good though.
[4:16] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
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[4:16] <Xark_> techman2: I wonder if that "smarttop" will license all the codecs and stuff (or GL). I guess they would have to or it would make a pretty worthless STB.
[4:17] <shirro> I wonder why all the people buying RPi for media players haven't just bought a Roku2. Basically the same thing but with a case and no need to go on forums asking dumb questions.
[4:18] <mkopack> shirro: Because people ARE dumb
[4:18] <techman2> Xark_: they market it as a "cloud computer".
[4:18] <techman2> Xark_: it has the option to bundle it with a google apps subscription
[4:19] <zgreg> I assume countless people will simply let the rpi collect dust after they find out there is no idiot-proof XBMC distribution.
[4:19] * piless (561ec4a1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.196.161) has joined #raspberrypi
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[4:19] <mkopack> probably so greg
[4:19] <des2> The Roku2 is onsale and cheaper than ever now.
[4:20] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:20] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[4:20] <mkopack> I'm going to give that a try with one, but I have other plans for them as well
[4:20] <zgreg> and/or that it is somewhat underpowered for XBMC and doesn't support many codecs
[4:20] <techman2> zgreg: yeah I think a lot of idiots from the hot deals uk forum will do that.
[4:20] * unkle_george_ (~quassel@static-50-53-154-51.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:20] * PiBot sets mode +v unkle_george_
[4:20] <mkopack> (especially if my ROS install trial here goes well??? might not have enough drive space on this 2GB Debian image though...)
[4:21] <Xark_> techman2: Hmm, that is interesting.
[4:21] <unkle_george_> Just thought of a fun Raspberry Pi project idea. Get a pair of them, some knobs and make a giant etcasketch
[4:21] <unkle_george_> One would have the knobs and the other would connect to any TV
[4:22] <Xark_> zgreg: Probably. Either that or a great biz opportunity for somebody selling pre-configured and loaded SD cards to them. :)
[4:22] * barr5790 (~alan@85.210.232.149) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:23] <zgreg> or somebody selling bundles of raspberry pi board + sd card + psu + cabling, etc.
[4:23] <zgreg> more expensive than the roku 2, of course
[4:23] <Xark_> zgreg: I bet we will see "off the shelf" setups (with cases, software etc.)
[4:24] <Compy> Woo! Just placed my order for Raspberry Pi. Ships April 3rd (hopefully). I'm stoked.
[4:24] <Xark_> zgreg: Yeah, but you get L33T points. :)
[4:25] <Xark_> Compy: Congrats! From Element14/Newark?
[4:25] <Syliss> is the fedora build out yet?
[4:25] <Compy> Xark_: Yep.
[4:25] <Xark_> Syliss: No, I don't believe so.
[4:25] <mkopack> Compy: Did you get your order confirmation email?
[4:26] <zgreg> sigh, farnell still did not process my order
[4:26] <Compy> mkopack: Yeah, just came through. Took about a minute.
[4:26] <zgreg> I have an order confirmation, but no expected delivery date
[4:26] <Xark_> Syliss: See http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/Raspberry_Pi_Fedora_Remix
[4:26] <passstab> is anyone here planning to actually use it for education?
[4:26] <mkopack> How the hell did you get such an early ship date? I ordered like 2 days ago and mine is for MAy 11 ?!?!
[4:27] <mkopack> pass: Some folks have mentioned giving them to their kids to teach them programming on
[4:27] <Xark_> Compy: I got May 12th date from them (and I ordered previously). I skipped the "register intrest stuff" though (those emails just came today - but I already placed my pre-order).
[4:27] <Syliss> passstab: define education...
[4:27] <shirro> passstab: yep, my own. Then down the track I might give my wife some for her classroom.
[4:27] <Compy> I registered interest last week, my order form says its expected to ship April 3rd. I got the email to pre-order today, so I'm not sure.
[4:28] <zgreg> or can anyone tell me what your status in the farnell/element14 order history looks like? I still see "order number generated" (actually, german "auftragsnummer generiert")
[4:28] <techman2> passstab: I plan on using it for my own education
[4:28] <Xark_> passstab: I am sure I'll learn something. :) Also, I hope to perhaps help some other beginning game coders out (with SDK work, tutorials or something).
[4:28] <passstab> ok curriculum
[4:29] <passstab> i hope to teach a class of homeschoolers
[4:29] <zgreg> well, maybe farnell germany is simply a bunch of lazy bums...
[4:29] <passstab> something about linux desktops maybe
[4:29] <Compy> zgreg: Mine says "Order Submitted"
[4:29] <shirro> I would like to see her classroom plasma tv start up with a Raspberry Pi logo and something like XBMC. Just tell the school IT people it is the standard Samsung embedded software :-) They don't like things that aren't Windows. Must be nice not having a brain.
[4:29] <passstab> or maybe py
[4:30] <zgreg> Compy: mhh. looks like I might be one step further. does it list the possible statuses?
[4:30] <Xark_> shirro: We can change the logo like a "grassy hill" (XP) and they will never be the wiser. :)
[4:31] <Xark_> shirro: Er, wallpaper...
[4:31] <mkopack> shirro: It's probably more an issue of not wanting to have to support a mix of OS'es and hardware??? understandable??? makes their life easier when everything is uniform
[4:31] <zgreg> Compy: what are these called in english? I can't switch the language...
[4:31] <shirro> Xark_: Oh, nice you are showing the middle school kids Teletubbies again.
[4:32] <Xark_> shirro: Only to evade the defenses. Then we can switch to another desktop when IT leaves... :)
[4:32] <Compy> zgreg: Whats what called in english?
[4:34] * oberling_ (~oberling@brln-4d0c0f8f.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:34] * PiBot sets mode +v oberling_
[4:34] <zgreg> Compy: the other possible status messages
[4:34] <shirro> Xark_: Given the price these can be single function devices. Who needs a desktop. It is just the classroom whiteboard/media player/presentation thingy. A bit of double sided tape on the back of the Telly and just say Samsung include it in the firmware if you know the hidden key sequence :-)
[4:34] <Tobias|> Huh
[4:35] <passstab> which distributer is preferred in the U.S?
[4:35] <zgreg> Compy: at least on my version of farnell there's a list of possible statuses
[4:35] <shirro> passstab: Newark
[4:35] <passstab> why?
[4:36] <shirro> passstab: cos their the only one taking orders I think. dunno. Not US.
[4:36] <Compy> hmmm, mine isn't listing possible statuses
[4:36] <Compy> I'd plug them into Google Translate
[4:37] <passstab> ok
[4:37] <passstab> last question then i'll be quiet
[4:37] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4d0c2559.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:37] <passstab> when will we get the "stable" boards?
[4:38] <piless> passstab: 3 years
[4:38] <zgreg> "later this year"
[4:38] <passstab> so your both right..
[4:39] <piless> I lied
[4:39] <passstab> thanks
[4:39] * passstab shuts up
[4:39] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:39] * PiBot sets mode +v qptain_Nemo
[4:40] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:40] <des2> NNewark is saying "Expected to ship April 3rd"
[4:40] <piless> des2: Don't trust them
[4:41] <des2> Sadly the 10% off coupon no longer works.
[4:41] <piless> There was a coupon?!
[4:41] <des2> ZER10 took 10% off
[4:41] <des2> But it's not working any more apparnetly
[4:41] <des2> WOrked yesterday
[4:43] <passstab> will there be freeBSD on the rpi?
[4:43] * passstab lied
[4:43] <piless> passstab: http://elinux.org/RPi_Distributions
[4:45] * codesnow (~codesnow@72.53.127.167) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[4:46] <des2> I know there's some interest in porting FreeBSd
[4:46] <des2> But it may be a while.
[4:46] * codesnow (~codesnow@72.53.127.167) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:46] * PiBot sets mode +v codesnow
[4:46] <Xark_> shirro: Great point. Your secret is safe with me. :)
[4:46] <Syliss> once someone who does freebsd gets a board, it will happen
[4:48] <zgreg> huh.
[4:48] <zgreg> as far as I remember, arm has been neglected by freebsd for years
[4:48] <passstab> hmm
[4:48] <passstab> netBSD then?
[4:49] <passstab> OFC!
[4:49] * codesnow (~codesnow@72.53.127.167) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:49] <passstab> :P
[4:49] <hotwings> just got an email from my pre-registration.. if i click the order link, i get an april 3rd ship date... my order from 3/1 gave me a may 11th ship date
[4:50] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:50] <des2> What do you love about the *BSD's passtab ?
[4:50] <passstab> 'nothin
[4:50] * JonSeals_ (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:50] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals_
[4:50] <passstab> just wondering
[4:51] <zgreg> very obviously, openbsd's pf is great
[4:51] <passstab> you know "let's install freeBSD!!"
[4:51] <passstab> in that xkcd
[4:51] <mkopack> OK, well, no ROS for now on RPi??? not enough space on the default Debian image to fit it
[4:51] <zgreg> iptables/netfilter is a piece of shit compared to mighty pf :)
[4:51] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:51] * JonSeals_ is now known as JonSeals
[4:52] <mkopack> not unless there's some way to make the disk image larger
[4:52] <des2> I used to run and love freebsd. But it was time to move to linux a while ago.
[4:53] <hotwings> hmm
[4:54] <passstab> des2 : on your desktop?
[4:54] <des2> yes
[4:55] <des2> In lieu of Windows 3.1 I recall.
[4:55] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:55] * PiBot sets mode +v qptain_Nemo
[4:55] <hotwings> i went ahead and placed another order with the pre-registration link.. that order says "submitted" for order status.. the order from 3/1 says "back order".. not sure if that means anything
[4:55] <passstab> what do you use now?
[4:56] <mkopack> hot wings, let me check mine??? hold on
[4:56] <des2> Ubuntu (desktop), Centos (VPSes) ArchLinux (pogoplug)
[4:56] <passstab> nice
[4:56] <shirro> des2: kqueue
[4:56] <hotwings> mkopack - yup, my 3/1 order still shows 5/11 ship date. my 3/3 order shows 4/3 ship date
[4:56] <passstab> i have a arch laptop
[4:57] <passstab> it won
[4:57] <passstab> :(
[4:57] <mkopack> Both of mine are listed as back ordered
[4:57] * kdnewton (~waggy@S01060c607607263d.ok.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:57] * PiBot sets mode +v kdnewton
[4:57] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
[4:57] <hotwings> mkopack - does your link order show 4/3 ship?
[4:57] <mkopack> Feb 29 order - Expected ship date 4/3/12!!! NICE!!!! IT moved up!!
[4:58] * Xark_ should see if he can track his status...
[4:58] <mkopack> the one from MAr 2 - May 14.
[4:58] <mkopack> My early one is still showing that damn $20 charge??? I'll have to ask about that...
[4:58] <mkopack> Monday I'll ping them
[4:59] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-187-141-26.lns16.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[4:59] <hotwings> cool.. so we know if you pre-registered and order from the link, you get the april 3rd ship date
[5:00] <mkopack> man, that makes me feel good! Was thinking I was gonna have to wait 2 months for this thing
[5:00] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:00] * PiBot sets mode +v paul_-
[5:01] <des2> Xark: tracking update: Wing had just be informed he'll be working a 90 hour week instead of 70.
[5:01] <passstab> are they still being manufactured?
[5:02] <passstab> or is it only the Chinese?
[5:02] <mkopack> pass: What do you mean? They're going to be in constant production from here on out
[5:02] <DaQatz> Sounds like they need more staff
[5:02] <passstab> ahh
[5:03] <mkopack> the posting they put up when the site came back up said they've already ordered the 2nd batch of parts and it's WAY bigger than 10,000
[5:03] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5695.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[5:03] <des2> They seem to have over 100,000 back orders
[5:03] <UnaClocker> I predict the Pi is going to start outselling the iPhone by a factor of 10..
[5:03] <mkopack> I doubt that
[5:03] <UnaClocker> hehe
[5:04] <DaQatz> UnaClocker, well do you want only one pi?
[5:04] <DaQatz> And how many ipads you gonna buy for yourself?
[5:04] <UnaClocker> Exactly, I plan to order one every payday for the foreseeable future.. ;)
[5:05] <mkopack> but the iPhone is much more a general consumer device??? the Rpi isn't
[5:05] <DaQatz> At the moment
[5:06] <des2> UnaClocker what will you be doing with your PI ?
[5:06] <DaQatz> pi will have a case etc..
[5:06] * malandro95 (~malandro9@199.30.185.125) Quit (Quit: malandro95)
[5:06] <UnaClocker> Yeah, true that.. And I imagine the initial surge will let up some, after some people with overly high expectations back off.
[5:06] <mkopack> even if I buy 10, and only 1 iPhone, there's 50 other people within 10 miles of me that will be buying an iPhone today
[5:06] <passstab> i'm more likely to but 3 RPIs then 3 iphones
[5:06] <UnaClocker> des2: Arcade Machine - MAME box for the first one..
[5:06] <DaQatz> The surge will well back. Same issue as the netbooks
[5:06] * Xark_ notices somebody is still interested in the RP. The forums are slower than ever (and even the main page is failing occasionally...). Hooray for success failure! :)
[5:07] <DaQatz> People will expect it to do things it can not
[5:07] <GabrialDestruir> Off Topic: Since when did they start showing cartoon shorts before movies again? >.>
[5:07] <DaQatz> Though the netbooks bloated into normal laptops
[5:07] <DaQatz> Which ruined them
[5:07] <UnaClocker> GabrialDestruir: Not sure, I hadn't seen a movie in like 5 years till I went and saw Star Wars 1 in 3D 2 weeks ago.
[5:07] <GabrialDestruir> A netbook should just have like...
[5:07] <GabrialDestruir> ChromeOS
[5:07] <passstab> take that to #off-topic please :P
[5:08] <shirro> DaQatz: On the plus side, lots of devices that can't do much is just the environment to get kids doing weird creative things. Demo scene for instance.
[5:08] * UnaClocker nods.
[5:08] <DaQatz> shirro, yep
[5:08] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:08] <UnaClocker> I'd like to do a Carputer with a Pi, but I need to find a small cheap HDMI screen, otherwise a Netbook is still a better option.
[5:09] * koda (~vittorio@host106-71-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: koda)
[5:09] <Xark_> UnaClocker: If you find out, be sure to share the link. :)
[5:09] <Xark_> one^
[5:09] <DaQatz> There will be screens for the pi
[5:09] <DaQatz> Not sure how cheap they will be to start
[5:09] <UnaClocker> DaQatz: That's what I'm banking on.
[5:09] <SpeedEvil> UnaClocker: In some cases, a 3.5" display over composite will work just fine.
[5:10] * Xark_ was eyeing this PS3/Xbox portable system at Best Buy (expensive, but nice little screen, speakers and battery combo thingie).
[5:10] <des2> UnaClocker what's your size and price acceptability ?
[5:10] <GabrialDestruir> I think if I was doing full out carputer I'd want atleast a 7" touch
[5:14] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ip6-27-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[5:14] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:14] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[5:14] * roman3x (~roman3x@bband-dyn33.178-40-206.t-com.sk) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[5:16] <Xark_> Whoa according to http://elinux.org/RPi_Buying_Guide#1st_Batch_Order_FAQ an estimated 2 million inquires/orders (unofficial). If that is even close that is wild.
[5:16] <mkopack> wow
[5:16] <hotwings> holy shit
[5:16] * OrlandoT (~kdoslaos@pool-74-105-171-157.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:16] * PiBot sets mode +v OrlandoT
[5:16] <mkopack> Liz said they're going to get some info on sales numbers and post it this week
[5:16] <hotwings> 2 million .... wow
[5:16] <GabrialDestruir> I love how online applications work these days -sracasm-
[5:17] <GabrialDestruir> sarcasm*
[5:17] <mkopack> they're also having conversations with both distributors to work out some issues, pricing weirdness for some of the regional sites, etc.
[5:17] <SpeedEvil> ...
[5:17] <oldtopman> I'll tell you one thing; this launch went a lot better than the OpenPandora's launch.
[5:18] <UnaClocker> des2: I was thinking 5-8", preferably 7, touch screen would be a huge bonus.. $100 tops..
[5:19] <oldtopman> UnaClocker: I have a friend who has a usb one that he likes that costs $150
[5:19] * OrlandoT (~kdoslaos@pool-74-105-171-157.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit ()
[5:19] <UnaClocker> No, definitely not going USB..
[5:19] <mkopack> I have one of the new Ford Explorers with the MyFord Touch + Sync system. It's great! I LOVE having a touch screen + voice rec interface??? F that BMW iDrive hockey puck dial crap
[5:19] <des2> That's certainly reasonable UnaClocker.
[5:20] <GabrialDestruir> Well if you're going touch, USB is unavoidable I think.
[5:20] <mkopack> And supposedly there's a way to get access to the dev kit so you can build add-on apps for it
[5:20] <UnaClocker> Yeah, I don't mind a USB HID device, I do mind ditching a fairly nice GPU for a USB one that's going to saturate the USB bus..
[5:21] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) Quit (Quit: quitters gonna quit :|)
[5:21] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:21] * PiBot sets mode +v qptain_Nemo
[5:21] <oldtopman> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280819398219?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_5268wt_1275
[5:21] <oldtopman> Found that on the forums, not sure if it's what you need.
[5:22] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:22] <GabrialDestruir> You might be able to get something with HDMI out and uses touch for only HID
[5:23] <GabrialDestruir> er
[5:23] <GabrialDestruir> uses USB for only HID
[5:23] <hotwings> that would be a must i think
[5:23] <UnaClocker> Yeah
[5:23] <no-name-> when are cases for the rpi expected to be available and for how much $$$?
[5:23] <UnaClocker> oldtopman: Not bad, that might work..
[5:24] <UnaClocker> If you have a 3d printer, I think there are some already out.. ;)
[5:24] <des2> no-name I expect withing 24 hours of the first PRi receipts
[5:24] <shirro> If they really took $2million orders have they just beaten the ZX81 in a couple of days?
[5:24] <UnaClocker> oldtopman: Shame it's analog VGA..
[5:24] <des2> When the chinese get them the cases will be <$5
[5:24] <shirro> Ooops I mean 2 million. No tthe $
[5:25] <Xark_> UnaClocker: There do seem to be some nice units, but not real cheap (or not listing price): For example, this is interesting: http://www.dinodirect.com/7inch-lcd-hd-touchscreen-monitor.html
[5:25] <UnaClocker> Who said 2 million orders? I feel like I'm missing a twitter feed..
[5:25] <GabrialDestruir> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=raspberry+pi+case&oq=raspberry+pi+case&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=3558l6449l0l6529l17l17l0l9l9l0l175l841l3.4l7l0
[5:25] <des2> Yeah they're currently around $180 Xark
[5:26] <des2> $160 rather
[5:26] <Xark_> UnaClocker: Well, there was a comment on twitter but it just linked to the elinux wiki link I posted. :)
[5:26] <shirro> http://elinux.org/RPi_Buying_Guide#1st_Batch_Order_FAQ - they estimate 2million orders/expression of interest. I doubt it. More like hits on web site
[5:26] <mkopack> Wow, that didn't take long! Cases galore!
[5:26] <UnaClocker> Ahh yeah, that was the post where I found Allied Electronics and ordered another Pi..
[5:26] <des2> Cool some $25 cheap plastic case for my $25 RPi....
[5:27] <mkopack> shirro: True, but even then, a lot of people are wanting > 1, so 2Million might not be that far off in the long run!
[5:27] <piless> where did the number come from if there's no official figures yet. Sounds like a load of bollocks to me
[5:27] <DaQatz> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-TFT-AUO-A080SN01-V0-LCD-Screen-Panel-Module-DVI-Controller-TCON-Board-800x600-/270925222336?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D280819398219%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6755190732054982304 <-- Dvi input
[5:27] <des2> I think it's at least 100,000 orders
[5:27] <Xark_> des2: Geez, doesn't even include power supply or blue LEDs? :)
[5:27] <mkopack> And I know several people in my robotics club who are interested in them, but don't want to order one for a while yet (too many other things going on right now)
[5:27] <UnaClocker> DaQatz: I love you.
[5:28] <des2> At least make the $25 case clear so you can sell it to Apple fans (watch the corners though).
[5:28] <DaQatz> =)
[5:28] <shirro> piless: I agree. Remember a PoS like the zx81 sold 1.5million, mostly to the uk probably and it didn't do anything well
[5:28] <GabrialDestruir> The distributors only have 5,000 units each to sell, reports have estimated the registered interest/pre-orders totalling over 2 million (no official figures available yet).
[5:28] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:28] <UnaClocker> des2: hehe, put one in an Apple][ case.. ;)
[5:28] <piless> if the figures aren't official then they're worthless
[5:28] <Xark_> piless: I would not put too much stock in the number, but it was amazing demand. I look forward to see the official figures...
[5:29] <piless> There was only 80k on the mailing list
[5:29] <GabrialDestruir> Yea?
[5:29] <GabrialDestruir> A lot of people didn't get their emails
[5:29] <DataSpree> piless: I read in post by JamesH there were 100k on the mailing list now
[5:29] <shirro> Everyone start referring to Eben as the new Clive Sinclair and hope the press pick it up. Lol
[5:29] <piless> GabrialDestruir: I didn't!
[5:29] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:29] <GabrialDestruir> so they found out about the announcement the same time as all the people who didn't bother to sign up on the mailing list
[5:30] <GabrialDestruir> and I'm assuming a large number of people didn't bother to sign up.
[5:30] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:30] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[5:30] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Liz and that always pointed people towards the mailing list... and then when the time comes.. nothing.. what a joke
[5:31] <GabrialDestruir> They made it sound like their email servers just couldn't handle the stress.
[5:31] <shirro> piless: You always think you can send unlimited emails until you try it.
[5:31] <GabrialDestruir> Unfortunately, the mail server had problems with sending out the 100K+ emails in time, it is believed the email was often marked as spam by a lot of email systems so was rejected or returned on-mass, or sent to Junk folders. Yes, this system should have been tested, but the foundation were keen not to send unnecessary emails to people prior to launch.
[5:31] <Xark_> DaQatz: Do you know is the touch input from that ebay screen via RS-232 or something?
[5:32] <DaQatz> Xark_, Not sure
[5:32] * Xark_ notes he did get his RPi foundation email...
[5:32] <des2> Yeah they screwed up piless
[5:32] <DaQatz> I mostly looked for panels that do dvi or hdmi
[5:32] <piless> shirro: Russian spammers seem to do just fine.
[5:33] <GabrialDestruir> I'm officially under the belief that Farnell has refused to acknowledge my email as it'd result in further work for them.
[5:33] <DaQatz> Not sure if it does touch
[5:33] <piless> It's pretty obvious that the companies they chose are a bit anti-consumer.
[5:33] <Xark_> DaQatz: Well it seems to and it has a TCON that looks like a touch controller (and screen frame).
[5:33] <DataSpree> piless: why do you say that?
[5:34] <DaQatz> Xark_, Nod I just didn't look up that info
[5:34] <DataSpree> piless: Farnell took my order just fine
[5:34] <GabrialDestruir> Well there was RS's entire "We don't sell to private customers"
[5:34] <GabrialDestruir> er "private consumers"
[5:35] <DataSpree> Even if RS is primarily a B2B company that doesn't mean they arent willing to sell the raspberry pi to consumers
[5:35] <GabrialDestruir> That's what they were telling people who called them.
[5:35] <GabrialDestruir> "We don't sell to private consumers"
[5:36] <SpeedEvil> Especially given the fact that once people have accounts, ...
[5:36] <Xark_> DaQatz: It appears to me they are geared for selling to companies (and perhaps hobbyists) vs. consumers. However, I understand the foundation had this little manufacturing issue too (and I think they will be fine). :)
[5:36] <hotwings> depending on how their business is registered, they may not be allowed to legally sell to non-businesses
[5:36] <shirro> It isn't a consumer device. School techs will have no issue ordering from Farnell
[5:36] <piless> Also Farnell didn't have an order button for individuals right at the start for some locales
[5:36] * swiley (~swiley@37.sub-75-197-102.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[5:37] <shirro> It is much harder to order an OLPC XO
[5:37] <GabrialDestruir> It took me 2 hours just to figure out how to order here in the US.
[5:37] <UnaClocker> Took me 3 days.
[5:37] <UnaClocker> heh
[5:37] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Yeah, neither company will displace Amazon anytime soon. :)
[5:37] <UnaClocker> Well, a day for Newark, and I just found out about Allied.
[5:37] <DataSpree> GabrialDestruir: so maybe some person who answered the phone wasnt up to date on what RS was planning on doing with the release of the rasperrypi. Liz has posted that both companies were supposed to sell to non-companies
[5:37] <GabrialDestruir> Then it seems they had the "sold out issue" which they then fixed later, and people came in and got the cleared up stock.
[5:38] <GabrialDestruir> Where as people who were already allocated "second batch" stock didn't get a bump in line.
[5:38] <piless> shirro: It isn't a consumer device?! They've just sold 10k to individuals and you say it's not a consumer device?!
[5:38] <DataSpree> She's asked for people to send her examples where prices were wrong, shipping was too high, or a sell to a consumer were denied. probably so she can take this info back and get any company who isnt following what was agreed upon to fix their policy
[5:39] <hotwings> what exact role does liz have?
[5:39] <shirro> Farnell and RS have huge catalogs. They probably get people approaching them all the time saying they have the "next big thing." and no it is not a consumer device. It doesn't even have a case. It is an SBC.
[5:39] <GabrialDestruir> She works for the foundation?
[5:39] <GabrialDestruir> It sounds like PR
[5:39] <UnaClocker> PR lady
[5:39] <Xark_> hotwings: My understanding she is the one full-time staff.
[5:39] <piless> hotwings: volunteer manager of website & twitter
[5:39] <DataSpree> She seems to be their PR lady and also isnt she married to eben?
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[5:40] <hotwings> so she has no actual authority, she just handles pr... ok
[5:40] <DataSpree> i think they mortgaged their house to help pay for the design and 10k
[5:40] <piless> Apparently she's thinking of giving it up though from all the "abuse" she got via the launch
[5:40] <hotwings> thats silly
[5:41] <piless> That's what she said on the forums
[5:41] <GabrialDestruir> She got a lot of abuse.
[5:41] <DataSpree> i've heard some people say some really horrible things to her
[5:41] <des2> Can Newegg sell it Pleeeeeeeeeeeease
[5:41] <shirro> piless: I hope not. People like her help build a community. I doubt if there would be half the interest if she wasn't getting answers from Eben to provide the forum and twitter
[5:41] <DataSpree> people on the internet seem to freak out in ways they never would in normal person to person settings
[5:41] <piless> des2: Or amazon
[5:41] <DaQatz> I sent her a thank you email after the launch.
[5:41] <hotwings> if people talking shit can get you to reconsider your involvement, you definitely need to leave
[5:41] <GabrialDestruir> Even without a case this is as much a consumer item as a Motherboard from Newegg is
[5:41] <SpeedEvil> There are issues I would strongly disagree with about the way they've done it.
[5:41] <DaQatz> Not sure why people would give her a hard time.
[5:41] <SpeedEvil> However - the fact still remains - they've done it.
[5:42] <piless> She said that's the reason she went AWOL on twitter, to let people calm down
[5:42] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[5:42] <DaQatz> She tends to over re-act but she's very helpful
[5:42] * JonSeals_ is now known as JonSeals
[5:42] <SpeedEvil> And numerous other people _haven't_
[5:42] <des2> Told you they were in hiding
[5:42] <SpeedEvil> Even if they could do 'better'.
[5:42] <piless> I'll see if I can find the forum post
[5:42] <GabrialDestruir> I'd be hiding too, the way they made it sound while she was doing the twitter thing, is people were just trashing her.
[5:42] <hotwings> she needs to learn to leave her emotions at home when its time to go to work
[5:43] <GabrialDestruir> Some people aren't designed that way, hotwings
[5:43] <shirro> The thing is this is a developer early release in advance of a consumer product later in the year. There would have been a lot more returns if they sold on Amazon. As it is people think it is a Roku and they are just going to plug it into the telly and watch movies.
[5:43] <des2> If this had been an Apple launch the person in charge wouldn't be anymore.
[5:44] <des2> Then again if it were an HP launch they woild have promoted the person to President.
[5:44] <UnaClocker> If it had been a Nintendo launch, we'd be buying them on Craigslist for $1,000..
[5:44] <GabrialDestruir> If this were an Apple launch the person in charge would probably just "disappear"
[5:44] <hotwings> this isnt apple though... this is a couple of people who have never ran a business before
[5:44] <des2> Exactlly hotwings.
[5:45] <shirro> If this was an apple launch nobody would bother because they just want the Jonathan Ives case.
[5:45] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sorry, I don't think the foundation is completely in the wrong, they've done their best to try and get everything off without a hitch.
[5:45] <des2> They didn't do a very good job and we move on.
[5:45] <GabrialDestruir> Their business associates didn't take them seriously.
[5:46] <Xark_> hotwings: Have you seen Eben's YouTube "endorsement" for the Cambridge MBA program? He mentions how he graduated and then a month later launched the foundation.
[5:46] <hotwings> Xark_ - if i did i dont remember seeing it
[5:46] <des2> Thus again demonstrating the MBA-Reality gap.
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[5:47] <hotwings> you can take all the schooling you want but the only way to really get experience is hands-on
[5:47] <DataSpree> not many people's first business is designing a new computer and selling it globally with as much interest as this
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[5:48] <Xark_> des2: I actually think they did a pretty good job considering they did virtually a 180 turn in their business model overnight as the idea "exploded" (and in real-time with hordes waiting).
[5:48] <shirro> DataSpree: Not since the 80s
[5:48] <Xark_> des2: Supposedly they were signing the deals with RS and Element14 the night before... (yow).
[5:49] <piless> Xark_: That's doubtful, it would have been in planning for months, it just wasn't public knowledge
[5:49] <Xark_> piless: Well, that is what Eben said in an interview. It sure looked like they have a recent "change of plans" to me...
[5:50] <des2> I can believe that Xark. That would explain alot.
[5:50] <piless> Xark_: No business would realistically work on that sort of timescale. Maybe he was pulling your leg
[5:50] <hotwings> if it was that much of a rush job, i sure how they had good lawyers look over those deals
[5:50] <GabrialDestruir> I wouldn't be surprised if they signed it the night before.... but they probably didn't arrange it in one day.
[5:50] <hotwings> i hope that regardless.. but especially when it relates to quick decisions
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[5:51] <shirro> hotwings: It is the Uk. They just shake hands. They probably all went to the same school or something.
[5:51] <GabrialDestruir> Then again, considering how things went.
[5:52] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: No, I suspect it took some time to negotiate. Can't move faster than the speed of law(yers). :)
[5:52] <mkopack> The way they were so hush the week before, Liz made it pretty clear she wasn't able to talk about things, so I'm thinking they were working on things for at least a week or two in advance
[5:52] <hotwings> well, one thing is for sure... It contains a Linux processor, memory chips and ports for almost every plug in device you could ever need!
[5:52] <hotwings> :D
[5:52] <piless> shirro: The UK's population is a fifth of americas, we're not *that* small
[5:52] <GabrialDestruir> It also contains Wifi!
[5:52] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:52] <DataSpree> and they had to work out with 2 competing companies a contract they would go live at the same time so neither company got an advantage of being announced over the other one
[5:52] <GabrialDestruir> and works with windows and mac!
[5:53] <Xark_> mkopack: She, she even mentioned in the forums "something is afoot" with regard to manufacturing and distrubuting.
[5:53] <shirro> piless: Any place you can drive across in a few hours is small.
[5:54] <hotwings> you have to hand it to liz.. as green as she is at PR, she did a good job up until the launch
[5:54] <A124> Why you nag about that?
[5:54] <piofcube> shirro: Some places like australia you got to drive a few hours to get to your neighbour LOL
[5:54] <mkopack> yeah??? so I doubt this was an overnight thing
[5:54] <piless> shirro: 700 miles if you're going north to south
[5:54] <A124> They made an excelent thing.. and bussines is other side.. mostly majority of breakthrough things are done without marketing
[5:55] <A124> *marketing specialist
[5:56] <shirro> piless: About the distance to Melbourne from here. Day trip. Not like driving to Brisbane or Perth.
[5:56] <mkopack> god, can't wait to go to the range tomorrow and do some shooting.. it's been WAY too long!
[5:57] <oldtopman> piless: DId you find the forum post?
[5:57] <piofcube> mkopack: oh? what do you have?
[5:57] <DataSpree> hotwings: how was her pr work bad at launch? she seemed to be very interactive with people on twitter during the launch
[5:57] <piless> oldtopman: gave up, that forum is way too hard to navigate
[5:57] <oldtopman> heh
[5:57] <mkopack> I just have a Sig P226 .22, but friends are coming along with an assortment
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[5:57] <piless> It'd be nice if you could view a profile and a list of their posts
[5:58] <GabrialDestruir> I don't think she was bad at the launch...
[5:58] <hotwings> DataSpree - she should have never let her emotions show, complaining about things people were saying
[5:58] <piless> what?!
[5:58] * unkle_george_ (~quassel@static-50-53-154-51.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:58] <Xark_> piless: I am pretty sure upgrading the forum software is on the list of things to do (from what I heard), but probably not at the top. :)
[5:58] <piless> Are you kidding me.. they brought the website down for three days
[5:58] <hotwings> whine about that in private but do NOT do it publicly
[5:58] <piofcube> mkopack I'm not really into guns for myself... can't really being in the UK anyway... but you just got to admire the craftmanship in milling and making many of those guns
[5:58] <shirro> piless: Oh, wait miles. Do people still use that? Sydney then. Still a day trip but need two drivers. Yeah, that is pretty big I guess compared to Tasmania
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[5:59] <mkopack> Yeah??? nothing like a piece of fine german engineering :)
[5:59] <oldtopman> piless: Do you have her account name?
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[5:59] <GabrialDestruir> My understanding was the site was down because they were generating too much traffic.
[5:59] <piless> oldtopman: it's liz
[5:59] <GabrialDestruir> Though if that were the case they should of slapped a few ads on it and generated income xD
[5:59] <MystX> Is it out yet?
[5:59] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[6:00] <piless> MystX: Is what out?
[6:00] <MystX> R-Pi
[6:00] <MystX> Just kidding, i know it's out
[6:00] <shirro> MystX: Just woke up from a coma did you?
[6:00] <MystX> I missed the launch =(
[6:00] <piless> GabrialDestruir: No the site was down because they brought it down.
[6:01] <Xark_> MystX: Not really. Get your place in line for April/May. :)
[6:01] <oldtopman> piless: Did she start the topic, or say that in a post?
[6:01] <piless> oldtopman: post
[6:01] * malandro95 (~malandro9@199.30.185.125) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[6:01] <DaQatz> He wanted to activate the bot
[6:01] <GabrialDestruir> Yes, but my understanding was they brought it down because they were getting too much traffic.
[6:01] <GabrialDestruir> Which is why it stayed static for so long.
[6:01] <oldtopman> piless: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum?forum=all&value=54&type=8&search=1
[6:01] <DaQatz> PiBot does not respond to that any more I'm afraid
[6:01] <piless> GabrialDestruir: They intentionally reduced their footprint to a couple kb of text and stored the images off-site
[6:02] <piless> oldtopman: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/off-topic/you-did-well-im-not-mad-and-other-stuff-like-that/page-2
[6:04] * pdp7 (~pdp7@asciipr0n.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[6:04] <GabrialDestruir> Yes I know they went static at the launch, because they were expected to have large numbers of traffic, my understanding why they didn't go live again later that day and the following days was because they were still getting too many hits for their live site to stay up, at least what's what word was in here about it.
[6:05] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Cutting themselves off from the world at launch is bad pr
[6:05] <GabrialDestruir> They didn't cut themselves off at launch so much as after the launch.
[6:06] <piless> GabrialDestruir: The forum would have been the best place for potential buyers to voice interest and get feedback
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[6:06] <GabrialDestruir> The forum would of crashed and been no better than Farnell or RPi
[6:06] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Not if they were prepared
[6:07] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Farnell & RPi disregarded their warnings and didn't prepare
[6:07] <A124> Anyway, the servers were DDoSed.. so no luck for me.. even friend nothing. Only friend of friend got it. But he was the right person I guess.
[6:07] <piless> GabrialDestruir: But raspberrypi.org was well aware of the impact it would have
[6:07] <MystX> its not exactly easyt o prepare for something like the r-pi launch
[6:07] <DataSpree> piless: isnt it also possible they did prepare but not enough. based on the response im not sure anyone knew it was going to have so much demand as it did
[6:07] <A124> Why not?
[6:07] <GabrialDestruir> Indeed it isn't so easy to prepare for something like that.
[6:08] <nplus> piless: keeping the forums up during launch would have been difficult and pricy
[6:08] <A124> Just make one system dedicated to RPi
[6:08] <MystX> A124, how would you go about it?
[6:08] <GabrialDestruir> Even if they did keep the forums up somehow.
[6:08] <GabrialDestruir> It would of been a warzone
[6:08] <nplus> yeah
[6:08] <DataSpree> think about it. even big companies like Apple, Microsoft, Nintendo run out of their products on launch nights because they either dont accurately estimate demand or are unable to produce enough of their product in time
[6:09] <A124> MystX: I would dedicate one machine for the launch, than would be the webserver. So it would serve a little data and would be really fast.
[6:09] <piless> DataSpree: That's bullshit, of couse they're able to produce enough of their produce in time
[6:09] <nplus> forums take quite a bit of resources - lots of related information gets pulled in for each page
[6:09] <MystX> A124, that most probably wouldnt work. 1 machine can only serve one page at a time
[6:09] <DataSpree> piless: it costs money to produce a product
[6:09] <piless> DataSpree: They wouldn't have the launch otherwise
[6:09] <DataSpree> piless: they only have 1 house to mortgage
[6:09] <A124> (Different third domain or something like that)
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[6:09] <DataSpree> piless: they could afford 10,000 at first
[6:09] <A124> MystX: How so?
[6:09] <DataSpree> so 10,000 is what they made
[6:09] <piless> DataSpree: I'm talking about the companies you compared them to
[6:10] * langbiangplaza (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[6:10] <MystX> A124, with thousands of requests coming in, one webserver just cant serv pages fast enough
[6:10] <GabrialDestruir> Most bigger companies like Apple or MS or Nintendo have an advantage over charity foundations
[6:10] <DataSpree> piless: yes those companies are able to create millions and even THEY still always seem to come up short on launch days too
[6:10] <A124> Static would.
[6:10] <GabrialDestruir> mainly the fact they already have enough financial security to create huge stock
[6:10] <DataSpree> so how could 3-4 guys in the UK doing stuff their first time do any better, get real
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[6:11] <MystX> A124, it takes time to send a page to a client. While you're preparing/doing that, you cant serv any other clients.
[6:11] <A124> Or load balance.. But more savings are on making a static page that then when making actions calls the server.
[6:11] * langbiangplaza (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[6:11] <GabrialDestruir> The foundation could only afford 10k and it sounds like if they hadn't licensed farnell or RS that batches would come in low numbers like 10k
[6:11] <A124> Pcket congestion?
[6:11] <piofcube> No matter what they did, someone would be upset...
[6:11] <nplus> MystX, A124: You're both wrong. A single server can handle multiple requests at a time. But a single beefy machine would still struggle serving a dynamic website under the load of tens of thousands of requests a minute
[6:11] <A124> nplus: I'm not wrong. I know The server can ;)
[6:12] <piless> DataSpree: Most of that isn't actually unpreparedness. They design it that way to drum up demand, and it ends up being more profitable. If they "sell out", the public see it as a success, and so want it more
[6:12] <piofcube> nplus: I think more like tens of thousands per second... with all those F5ers in the mix :S
[6:12] <MystX> I was referring to the time it takes to actually send data
[6:12] <nplus> A124: the first bit was geared towards MystX
[6:12] <GabrialDestruir> Even a top of a line server would of had issues.
[6:12] <des2> Which is why telling people to search for "Raspberry pi" on Farnell's website failed so miserably
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[6:12] * langbiangplaza (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[6:12] <piless> des2: Yes, that was such an idiotic thing for liz to do
[6:12] <GabrialDestruir> Also you have to understand that tens of thousands of requests a minute takes up a lot of bandwidth quick.
[6:13] <nplus> piofcube: i wouldn't be surprised by that at all
[6:13] <A124> nplus: ah. The trick is, that the page with product has not to be dynamic.
[6:13] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ()
[6:13] <A124> Only when you checkout.. also they could skip shopping cart for that reason.
[6:13] <GabrialDestruir> They were suppose to provide the foundation with direct links, they were suppose to also have the rPi on their front pages.
[6:13] <piofcube> gab: and each connection has an overhead on top of that
[6:14] <nplus> A124: shopping cart websites are generally a pretty dynamic. Changing things up to make part of your site static is no small task
[6:14] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Actually, to be honest that sounded like they were covering their asses after the fact
[6:14] <GabrialDestruir> Also they were suppose to actually be SELLING the product, not putting up "Register Instrest" pages.
[6:14] <A124> nplus: 1 static, 1 dynamic, 1 payment
[6:14] <GabrialDestruir> Intrest*
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[6:14] <A124> nplus: Yeah I know. But the page on whose the product is diplayed can be static
[6:15] <nplus> A124: sure, but then the payment/checkout would still grind to a halt
[6:15] <A124> Also, you can then just click Buy and go directly to payment method
[6:15] * Ahti333 (~Ahti333@dslc-082-082-133-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:16] <GabrialDestruir> Could of been, and it might of saved the server from dying for a few more seconds, but when they hit any sort of dynamic page the site is dead under that load
[6:16] <A124> I would not. You could lease a serverfarm of virtual machines
[6:16] <A124> And loadbalance
[6:16] <piofcube> I still think that RS and Farnell/et all thought because they sell millions of units each year, 10K of R-Pis (well 5K each) wouldn't be noticed.
[6:16] <A124> Hourly cost = minimum.
[6:16] <GabrialDestruir> Except the distributors didn't think it'd be an issue.
[6:17] <mkopack> they said we put more traffic in Farnell's site in 4 minutes than it usually gets in a DAY
[6:17] <GabrialDestruir> Small foundation tells big company it's going to be popular.
[6:17] <GabrialDestruir> What big company will believe that?
[6:17] <piofcube> They'd think "what's heavy load to a small foundation is nothing to what we get"
[6:17] <A124> The most supid thing was..
[6:18] <mkopack> Think they learned their lesson? :)
[6:18] * langbiangplaza (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[6:18] <A124> No directlinks??!! FFS.
[6:18] <GabrialDestruir> I think even if they had guestimated even half the traffic they got, the company would of still been like 'We can handle that"
[6:18] <piofcube> Well R-Pi foundation can only give links if they get them from the distributors
[6:18] <A124> Like searching a database for the RPi 100 000 times... ? .. OK.. Well done, and now go die.
[6:19] <A124> That's what I think. And the death was meant as the server.
[6:19] <GabrialDestruir> They could of probably searched the website and grabbed the links...
[6:19] <nplus> A124: i agree that there are things that could have been done to handle the load on launch better, but it isn't a simple task
[6:19] <GabrialDestruir> I still think even with direct links the servers would of died in seconds
[6:19] <piofcube> gab: yeah... very true
[6:20] <mkopack> See, this could have been avoided...
[6:20] <piless> GabrialDestruir: People were continually researching for a page that didn't exist and you will only go through a checkout once
[6:20] <piless> *searching
[6:20] <piofcube> mkopack: It could have been avoided if they just shipped them to my house... I would have posted them all... eventually ;-)
[6:20] <GabrialDestruir> The only way it could of been truly avoided was delaying the launch.
[6:20] <mkopack> If they hadn't directed EVERYONE to the Farnell + RS sites in the UK, but rather to the partners in each country, that would have meant those 2 servers would have had to bear the load of EVERYONE hitting them all at once
[6:20] <A124> nplus: the simplest saver would be directlink
[6:21] <piless> mkopack: I don't think they linked to the uk farnell site
[6:21] <A124> Which is just product of stupidity.
[6:21] <mkopack> You wouldn't have had 50,000 American's hitting the UK server - we would have gone to Newark or Allient
[6:21] <mkopack> Allied
[6:21] <GabrialDestruir> Allied didn't even have the product til the next day.
[6:21] <A124> Or some higher thinking, which has not went well ;) :D xD
[6:21] <mkopack> Well, whatever you know what I'm saying??? It would have spread the load around .
[6:21] <mkopack> Yeah, and that's the OTHER problem...
[6:21] <GabrialDestruir> No one knew about newark until several hours after the main hit.
[6:21] <piless> GabrialDestruir: They still don't have the product. NOONE has the product
[6:22] <nplus> yeah, there was an underwhelming amount of information on how to place an order
[6:22] <GabrialDestruir> I mean it wasn't on their site, piless
[6:22] <mkopack> All the regional partners should have had it on their sites at the start.. and RS shouldn't have been doing this whole "register for interest" crap and instead had actual pre-order pages??? That threw a LOT of people off??? WTF is this "Register Interest?" I want to BUY!!!
[6:22] <piofcube> These are all things that Farnell/RS/etc should have done... Maybe they just said "we'll sort it all out"... and maybe even thought... hell, we get people looking at our sites and we might sell other stuff at the same time... But that's just my opinion
[6:22] <mkopack> So, was it a perfect scenario? - No???
[6:22] <GabrialDestruir> There was also the entire you could order more than one.
[6:22] <piless> mkopack: Yeah, it was kind of pointless considering none of the retailers actually have them yet
[6:23] <GabrialDestruir> Which has screwed a lot of people over, because they allocated stock for some people later, fixed the issue and reallocated stock to later buyers.
[6:24] * fifer (~fifer@67.208.108.228) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:24] <GabrialDestruir> So instead of people who had already been allocated to batch to getting a bump to batch one or whatever, the stock just went to whoever was ordering at the time.
[6:24] <GabrialDestruir> batch two*
[6:24] <mkopack> the distributors treated this just like they would any other product in their catalog??? I'm betting NOTHING else they sell has ever had demand like this on release day??? For most things they probably get a shipment of 500 and put them in the warehouse and add it to their web catalog and it might take 2 months to sell those 500 before they need to order more
[6:24] <mkopack> so they treated it like they would any other product they sell...
[6:24] * fifer (~fifer@67.208.108.228) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:24] * PiBot sets mode +v fifer
[6:25] <A124> Simply put.. big companies thing too much of themselves. Make it over yourself and move on.
[6:25] * maahes (~maahes@cpe-98-148-196-131.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-rc3)
[6:25] <piofcube> mkopack: No matter how much of an electronics buff you are, you wouldn't get so excited about a new resistor or zener diode LOL
[6:25] <mkopack> EXACTLY
[6:26] * PiKeY (PiKeI@aero.feasa.com.br) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:26] <mkopack> HEll, look at Bestbuy when the first iPad came out??? It was a F'ing ZOO...
[6:26] * maahes (~maahes@cpe-98-148-196-131.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:26] * PiBot sets mode +v maahes
[6:26] <mkopack> I wanted one??? so I got there when they opened at 9am and stood there ALL DAY LONG???. They couldn't sell them until 4pm??? There were 45 people in line??? The store had 8.
[6:26] <des2> There's a new resistor?!
[6:26] <mkopack> I got #7
[6:27] <piofcube> mkopack: I bet there were a few people camping out over night also
[6:27] <mkopack> Yup
[6:27] <GabrialDestruir> The fact they were getting 5,000 in stock as opposed to 500 or something should of clued them in....that and the fact they were told it would happened. They should of listened and took measures. Mind you the companies CS people were pretty clueless, there were reports of RS claiming they had to manufacture them, that they didn't sell to private consumers, etc.
[6:27] <mkopack> I did that for the iPhone 3G...
[6:27] * aos101 (adam@unaffiliated/aos101) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:28] * PiKeY (PiKeI@aero.feasa.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:28] * PiBot sets mode +v PiKeY
[6:28] * JairunCaloth (~dbrowne@173-15-221-249-BusName-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:28] <mkopack> Gabrial: Exactly??? that was on the distributor though, not the Foundation??? Could the foundation have taken some measures in advance to be sure things at RS were ready to go before release, maybe???
[6:28] * JairunCaloth (~dbrowne@173-15-221-249-BusName-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:28] * PiBot sets mode +v JairunCaloth
[6:28] <GabrialDestruir> I'm assuming they could of, like checking the websites before they made their announcement.
[6:29] <piofcube> mkopack: They could have tied them to a chair, stapled their eyes open and forced them to take notes and watch powerpoint presentations... maybe inject caffeine directly into the veins at the same time.
[6:29] <mkopack> My biggest beef was that they were under information embargo before the release, and the process had changed dramatically from what we had been lead to believe it would be in the prior months, so there was a TON of confusion in the initial hour??? And then the distributors dropping the ball didn't help.
[6:29] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sure that short of someone just happening to be on RS right as their RPi ad went up or something, it wouldn't of been any sort of "early release" or "leaked release" etc
[6:30] * aos101 (adam@unaffiliated/aos101) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:30] * PiBot sets mode +v aos101
[6:30] <GabrialDestruir> or on farnell for that point either
[6:30] * [1]des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-32-91.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:30] * PiBot sets mode +v [1]des2
[6:30] <mkopack> If they could have been sure the distribs had their shit straight, AND told us like 24-48 hours before release what they were going to do, AND made sure the regional distributor sites were going to have the product listed all at the same time and for the right price and such it could have gone a LOT more smoothly
[6:30] * Xark_ thought to be on the safe side he would "honor" is registered interest and buy from that link too (to get that "place in line"). However, Newark is still too DDOS'd to take the order...
[6:31] <piofcube> I bet the first thing RS and Farnell said when they approached them was "sign this NDA... don't say anything until x date". I might be wrong but what do you think?
[6:31] <GabrialDestruir> If they told everyone 24-48 hours that they were using RS and Farnell, those two sites would of gotten hammered up until the release
[6:31] <A124> >>> from other channel: (6:27:28) econnell: alright... got my autoscaling db cluster built and dynamic haproxy configs done
[6:31] <mkopack> Probably??? I think the foundation was also under a lot of pressure to make the announcement on Feb 29.
[6:32] <A124> This is a proof it's not that hard to make measures to have that shop system balanced
[6:32] * codesnow (~snow@72.53.127.167) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[6:32] <GabrialDestruir> Though, under those circumstances they might of been able to fix it before release...
[6:32] <hotwings> any known power supplies for rpi ?
[6:33] <jojo> rs designspark blogged about their partner status on 27th
[6:33] <mkopack> They had pushed back their expected release announcement several times and had kept making us all think the boards were done with manufacturing and we def be released by end of Feb. A couple more days of due diligence could have avoided a lot of these headaches, but that artificial deadline they painted for themselves didn't leave them that sort of wiggle room
[6:33] <Xark_> piofcube: Totally. This was in in the forums even (and they had to keep it "fair" between Element14 and RS).
[6:33] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:33] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[6:33] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-42-47.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[6:33] * [1]des2 is now known as des2
[6:33] * Xark_ also read: ...you're also assuming that the distributors were frantically chosen at the last minute, but Liz has been hinting at this for months now
[6:34] <piofcube> Xark_: I didn't read it though I started to gibber after several threads LOL
[6:34] <GabrialDestruir> Anyways... I'd think they'd rather have an overwhelming number of people wanting the product.
[6:34] <GabrialDestruir> Than to think they've got mass numbers
[6:34] <jojo> and someone on the forums saw a raspi banner ad on rs on the 28th
[6:34] <GabrialDestruir> just to find out they didn't even sell all their initial stock
[6:35] <mkopack> Yeah, I think the Rpi foundation is pretty surprised at the demand level
[6:35] <piofcube> jojo: I'm not suprised but I'm sure they will blame timezones or something
[6:35] <mkopack> Even with all the info they had about number of people hitting the sites, buying the stickers, joining the mailing lists, and how hard their servers were hammered every time somebody posted something about the RPi up on /.
[6:36] <hotwings> lets try this again
[6:36] <hotwings> any known power supplies for rpi ?
[6:37] <piofcube> hotwings: I'm just sticking with my offical blackberry or other mobile chargers
[6:37] <GabrialDestruir> Any 1A phone charger with microusb will work
[6:37] <mkopack> What Gab said
[6:37] <mkopack> Just be sure to get a good quality one and not a cheepy
[6:37] <piofcube> Saves worrying about chinese knock-offs and other nasty suprises
[6:38] <mkopack> BRB...
[6:38] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[6:38] * A124 (~Mandie@unaffiliated/a124) has left #raspberrypi
[6:38] * no-name- (~no-name@180.237.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:39] <Xark_> OK, thats better. Finally retried enough times to get my 2nd RPi order at Newark placed (they are still really having trouble). This one is for Apr 3 (much better than May 12). :)
[6:39] <piofcube> I opened one up last week... the 240v wires had nearly 2cm of bare wire leading up to the PCB and one of them was pressed against a cap leg on the 5v side of the board... Good job I looked before using it
[6:41] <piless> Xark_: They're removing 2nd etc orders
[6:41] <Xark_> piless: No problem. I just wanted the earlier place in line from the "registered interest".
[6:42] * UnaClocker (~unaclocke@24-113-85-150.wavecable.com) Quit (Quit: updating...)
[6:42] <Xark_> piless: Or if they want to send one, then the next when they make enough that is fine too.
[6:43] <GabrialDestruir> Wth
[6:43] <GabrialDestruir> Apr 3?
[6:43] <GabrialDestruir> When did you order? .-.
[6:43] <Xark_> Yep.
[6:43] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:43] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[6:43] <hotwings> so they havent actually posted power supply specs?
[6:44] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Well I registered interest painfully on launch day (then I found the secret order link later).
[6:44] <mkopack> Back
[6:44] * pdp7 (~pdp7@bangin.unixsluts.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:44] * PiBot sets mode +v pdp7
[6:44] <mkopack> Xark. Same here
[6:44] <GabrialDestruir> I registered intrest with RS, but not with newark or anyone .-.
[6:44] <Xark_> mkopack: Apparently the "secret link" put you in the 2nd batch (which was why it was May).
[6:45] <mkopack> An well, THat order for me is now showing April 4
[6:45] * relaxed (~relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed) has left #raspberrypi
[6:45] <mkopack> The one I made through the express interest link and subsequent email is showing may 14
[6:45] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: I got an email from my interest with RS too. :) I registered my interest with lots of places that day. :)
[6:46] <GabrialDestruir> The last thing I heard about mine was "4-16" and that was about 4 hours after I ordered.... and about 3 hours before they fixed the stock issue...
[6:46] <GabrialDestruir> The site still shows "Back Order" and crap
[6:47] <mkopack> I got the interest acknowledge email from Rs as well, but probably won't bother ordering from them at this point...
[6:47] <mkopack> 2 will be enough for now for me
[6:48] <Xark_> mkopack: Me neither. I like element14 much more (and I hear RS aren't doing any pre-orders even yet).
[6:48] <Xark_> mkopack: The email says "we'll let you know..."
[6:48] <GabrialDestruir> There also doesn't seem to be any way to change any information on my Farnell order.
[6:48] * pdp7 (~pdp7@bangin.unixsluts.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[6:48] <mkopack> 371 people I. Here right now but only like 10 ever talk...
[6:49] <des2> Most are jealous computers.
[6:49] <GabrialDestruir> 361 people are idling
[6:49] <GabrialDestruir> waiting for their orders
[6:49] <mkopack> Lol
[6:49] <Xark_> mkopack: Yeah...well for quite a while I was an idler. :)
[6:49] <GabrialDestruir> Plus...
[6:49] <DataSpree> im debugging why a program crashed otherwise i'd be talking more
[6:49] <GabrialDestruir> you don't want 371 people talking at once
[6:49] <mkopack> I'm just glad I got the Debian image working inside qemu so I can play with it a bit
[6:50] * Xark_ should be debugging his static translator (but tedious...)
[6:50] <DataSpree> mkopack: what kernel did you use or did you build your own with a cross compiler?
[6:50] <mkopack> I need to figure out some way to give it a bigger drive space though... I can't install crap on it right now... Not enough free space
[6:50] <mkopack> I used the one posted on the page...
[6:50] <mkopack> (sorry, on my iPad now so I can't get you the link....)
[6:51] <mkopack> I had to compile up a fresh copy of qemu to get the arm1176 stuff working
[6:51] <DataSpree> with qemu-system-arm? which version? i tried it with the kernel in the debian image from raspberry pi's website and it didnt load
[6:51] <DataSpree> im using 1.0.1
[6:52] <Xark_> DataSpree: I was under the impression you can't emulate the "real" kernel...
[6:52] <mkopack> Data. You have to use a slightly different kernel...
[6:52] <DataSpree> Xark_: i was too but only because the peripheal devices are different. the qemu has mostly PC types buses like PCI emulated
[6:52] <mkopack> Crap... Let me go grab my MacBook, where I have the link
[6:52] <DataSpree> yes that's what i was expecting
[6:53] <DataSpree> which is why i was wondering where you got a working one
[6:53] <Xark_> DataSpree: Yeah. Not a full RPi emulator (yet). :)
[6:53] <mkopack> Brb
[6:53] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:53] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:53] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[6:53] <mkopack> Ok, you need to use what's here: http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/02/18/raspberry-pi-releases-1st-sd-card-image-debian-how-to-use-it-in-the-emulator/
[6:54] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[6:54] <mkopack> About 1/4 down the page it tells you to build a new kernel, but then it also has a link to a zImage_3.1.9 which is the one you can use
[6:54] <mkopack> (this will make it only work on Qemu, not an actual Rpi)
[6:55] <GabrialDestruir> Bah.
[6:55] <DataSpree> nod. ok this was what i was expecting i would have to do
[6:55] <nplus> anyone here plan on using Java + I2C?
[6:55] <GabrialDestruir> Waiting an entire month and 13 days is going to suck
[6:56] <Xark_> nplus: I2C as in hardware protocol/bus?
[6:56] <nplus> Xark_: yeah
[6:56] <mkopack> nplus: I got Java (Open JDk ) installed on the Debian image earlier tonight??? It just BARELY fit
[6:56] <Xark_> nplus: I2C sounds easy...getting Java to run sounds hard. :)
[6:56] <DataSpree> C++ + I2C or SPI are my plans
[6:56] <mkopack> Nah, actually java was simple???
[6:56] * TinhTienMau (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:56] * PiBot sets mode +v TinhTienMau
[6:57] * Foxhoundz (~Fujitsu@adsl-75-58-144-251.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Foxhoundz
[6:57] <Foxhoundz> Guys
[6:57] <mkopack> apt-get install default-jdk
[6:57] <Foxhoundz> Has anyone seen this? http://nwlinux.com/allwinner-a10-cheaper-raspberry-pi/
[6:57] * TinhTienMau (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[6:57] <mkopack> a few minutes later. Java
[6:57] <nplus> Xark_: there's a java package for debian arm
[6:57] <DataSpree> Foxhoundz: yes and it will take them months or years before it actually happens
[6:57] <Xark_> mkopack: Nice. And you are under "realistic" RAM constraints (so 224MB max for Linux)?
[6:57] <GabrialDestruir> WHAT?!?!? NOOOO!!!! CHEAPER?!?!?
[6:57] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[6:58] <mkopack> Yes, as far as QEMU is concerned I'm basically running on an RPi
[6:58] <nplus> mkopack: nice
[6:58] <GabrialDestruir> according to this, this thing is actually being sold
[6:58] <mkopack> Fox: Hmmm??? believe that when I see it??? Those specs seem rather high for something to only cost $7???.
[6:58] * TinhTienMau (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:58] * PiBot sets mode +v TinhTienMau
[6:59] <GabrialDestruir> Indeed.
[6:59] <DataSpree> GabrialDestruir: only the CPU is actually being sold. in 100,000k qty of $7
[6:59] <Xark_> Hmm, I bet the same Qemu seetup I was using for an A9 system would work for RPi with a new -cpu and the right images.
[6:59] <GabrialDestruir> Ah.
[6:59] <DataSpree> unless they have some serious VC capital it's doubtful they will be able to afford run of that length, IMO
[7:00] <mkopack> Be interesting to keep our eyes on it though??? But the last update was mid January on their site...
[7:00] * malandro95 (~malandro9@199.30.184.200) Quit (Quit: malandro95)
[7:00] <mkopack> http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/news/
[7:00] <GabrialDestruir> WEll the make it seem like an actual board is being sold
[7:01] <Foxhoundz> I know this might be the wrong place to ask
[7:01] * SinTaX98 (~sintax98@ip72-220-223-181.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:01] * PiBot sets mode +v SinTaX98
[7:01] <Foxhoundz> but since I can no longer get my hands on a Pi
[7:01] <GabrialDestruir> Otherwise it's not even a comparison.
[7:01] <Foxhoundz> are there any alternatives?
[7:01] <mkopack> ok, switching back to the iPad so I can chat while laying in bed??? BRB
[7:01] <GabrialDestruir> One CPU vs an entire board?
[7:01] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[7:01] <DataSpree> Foxhoundz: not for $35 or less
[7:01] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:01] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[7:02] <mkopack> Ok back
[7:02] <DataSpree> Foxhoundz: if you're willing to spend $85-$99 you could get a similar system that is semi-hackable
[7:02] * piless (561ec4a1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.196.161) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:02] <des2> mkopack where on ebay can I buy the allwinner ?
[7:02] <Foxhoundz> DataSpree: What's the name of the board?
[7:03] <Xark_> Foxhoundz: Typically with better CPU and worse (or no) GPU.
[7:03] <mkopack> I need to figure out how to get that debian image to think its on a bigger sd card..
[7:03] * SinTaX98 (~sintax98@ip72-220-223-181.sd.sd.cox.net) has left #raspberrypi
[7:03] <Xark_> mkopack: gparted
[7:03] * fmfree (no@wlan-442-188-100-dhcp.CSUChico.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[7:03] <des2> Foxhoundz what do you want to do with your unit ? The answer determines the altrernative
[7:03] <mkopack> Des... No idea. Just posting what i saw based on the other link somebody posted on it
[7:03] <Foxhoundz> I just need a light PC I can plug in and run permanently
[7:03] * TinhTienMau (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:03] <Foxhoundz> I'm a student web developer
[7:04] <mkopack> Fox pogo/sheevaplug?
[7:04] <Foxhoundz> so I could use a private LAMP stack
[7:04] <Foxhoundz> that's always on
[7:04] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[7:04] <des2> Foxhoundz do you need video or is ssh access fine ?
[7:04] <nplus> mkopack: so Java isn't a problem on your Pi simulator?
[7:04] <GabrialDestruir> I highly doubt that an entire board exists at $7, for the simple fact that if it did, there'd be no reason for the Pi to exist
[7:04] <DataSpree> Foxhoundz: sheevaplug dev kit is $99
[7:04] <Xark_> Foxhoundz: If you don't need a display, a "plug" sounds perfect.
[7:05] <mkopack> Nplus: it installed... I tried java and Javac and got the command line option dumps for both to show up
[7:05] <des2> If no video and 128MB is fine wait for hte next $20 pogoplug sale.
[7:05] <piofcube> do any of those plug computers have built-in ethernet over power?
[7:05] <des2> If no video and you need 256MB find a Pogoplug E01
[7:05] * TinhTienMau (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:05] * PiBot sets mode +v TinhTienMau
[7:05] <mkopack> I ended up removing it though because I was down to 56 KB drove space once it was installed
[7:06] <Xark_> piofcube: Umm, the ones I am seen are "plug" because they are build into a wall-wart (so PoE would be weird).
[7:06] <Foxhoundz> Hm
[7:06] <mkopack> Fox check out plug-computer.org
[7:06] <mkopack> (iirc that's the link)
[7:07] <piofcube> if they plug into the mains outlet, I would have though ethernet over power would be ideal?
[7:07] <DataSpree> piofcube: Picotux 112 with PoE option is 143 EUR
[7:07] * TinhTienMau (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) has left #raspberrypi
[7:07] <nplus> mkopack: yeah, fair enough - i plan on getting a 4-8GB sdcard so i have a bit more room to play
[7:07] <mkopack> Pio. Why? It's plugged into the mains... It HAS power!
[7:07] <des2> But once you get to around $100 consider an Intel Atom board (Uses around 12 watts)
[7:07] <mkopack> Why would it need Poe then?
[7:07] <Xark_> Or for 512MB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheevaPlug
[7:08] <piofcube> no "ethernet over power" not power over ethernet
[7:08] <mkopack> Yeah I have a sheevaplug... Never use it...
[7:08] <mkopack> Oh
[7:08] <DataSpree> you could always use one of these http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10759
[7:08] <piofcube> :-)
[7:08] <DataSpree> if your cable length wasnt too long
[7:08] <des2> The pogoplug E01 is line the sheevaplug with only 256MB and $50
[7:08] <Xark_> mkopack: The Seneca Fedora build-farm (for the remix) is a closet packet with those (IIRC). :)
[7:08] <Xark_> packed^
[7:09] <DataSpree> if it is really long then you need the 48V due to impedance i think
[7:09] <des2> Ethernet over power is a 'last resort'
[7:09] <piofcube> des2 LOL yeah
[7:09] <mkopack> Somebody in the rpi forums posted notice about an inexpensive add on board for the rpi that gives it a socket for an xbee radio.... It was only like 3$uk. S I might order one so I can have my rpi talk to my arduino Over xbee
[7:10] <GabrialDestruir> 5Apparently
[7:10] <GabrialDestruir> the best way to get CS from farnell is to contact your local branch
[7:10] <GabrialDestruir> so in my case newark
[7:10] <DataSpree> mkopack: oh really? i just bought a pair of xbee radios today actually
[7:11] <mkopack> I already have a pair of xbee radios that I use to send telemetry from my robot back to my MacBook
[7:11] <mkopack> Data, yeah hold a sec and I'll get you the link...
[7:12] * Xark_ is amazed people pay ~$180 (Amazon price) for "DreamPlug"...
[7:12] <mkopack> http://shop.ciseco.co.uk/slice-of-pi/
[7:12] <DataSpree> mkopack: that's actually what i planning on doing the same. my robot is still a work in progress though. it's arduino based, with 4 dc motors and 6 sonar sensors plus an acceleromter/magnometer
[7:12] <DaQatz> That one came out fast
[7:12] <mkopack> My only worry is the shipping from the uk will be more than I pay for the unit
[7:12] * TinhTienMau (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:12] * PiBot sets mode +v TinhTienMau
[7:12] <DataSpree> i bought a gps unit and the xbees today to add to it
[7:12] <des2> THat's a reasonable prices board mkopack
[7:13] <des2> That's a reasonably priced board mkopack
[7:13] <mkopack> Yeah I thought so too
[7:13] <mkopack> Might order one on Monday
[7:14] <des2> 90% of the arduino peripherals are really generic that connect by a generic cable
[7:14] <GabrialDestruir> You can just pop that on your board and go?
[7:14] <GabrialDestruir> o.O
[7:14] * TinhTienMau (~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35) Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:14] <mkopack> Yup, but you gotta buy the xbee radio u it's as well if you want to use that capability...
[7:15] <mkopack> Xbee = specialize lower power wifi kinda thing. But point to point or mesh network, and basically acts as a serial port...
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[7:16] <DataSpree> like this http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8665
[7:16] <mkopack> Yup
[7:16] <GabrialDestruir> http://shop.ciseco.co.uk/xbt-bluetooth-module/ free stuff? o.o
[7:16] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[7:17] <mkopack> Pricing to be confirmed... Ie they don't know what to charge yet... Pre order only...
[7:17] <mkopack> Lol
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[7:18] <GabrialDestruir> I'm trying to decide whether or not there'd be someone at newark's sales department right now
[7:18] <mkopack> Y?
[7:18] <GabrialDestruir> Since the only hours they give are for tech support.
[7:18] <GabrialDestruir> To call them up and get information?
[7:19] <mkopack> On an existing order? Or a new one?
[7:19] <GabrialDestruir> Existing.
[7:19] <mkopack> Eh, wait till morning
[7:19] <GabrialDestruir> according to the FAQ the best way to get support is to call your local branch, since I haven't heard anything back on the email I've sent I figured calling would be the next step
[7:20] <mkopack> It's the weekend. Good luck getting a response until Monday
[7:21] <GabrialDestruir> I figured that'd be the case.
[7:21] <GabrialDestruir> :p
[7:21] <mkopack> Just be patient.... We will all get our pi. Sooner or later...
[7:21] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[7:22] <mkopack> And on that note... Bed time for me gang... Later!
[7:22] <DataSpree> night
[7:22] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[7:22] <GabrialDestruir> Yes... but I'd rather put my suspicion to rest that some people who ordered early got screwed -.-
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[7:25] <des2> Silly Gabrial. Early adopters always get screwed.
[7:26] <GabrialDestruir> There's a difference between getting screwed as the price goes down later.... and screwed because someone else is getting theirs before you because the're lazy? .-.
[7:26] <GabrialDestruir> lol
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[9:31] <weuxel> Finally got an email from RS, telling me that i will get more information within seven days.
[9:32] <_av500_> same here
[9:32] <paul_-> ditto.
[9:33] <paul_-> i've already paid element14 tho, so they are a little late on the ball imho
[9:34] <weuxel> they are indeed
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[9:44] <PaulFertser> Hi there :) I'm reading http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals and created a KiCad symbol for it (already uploaded to the wiki).
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[9:45] <PaulFertser> However, on carefully crosschecking the colour-coded connector image, the "datasheet" and the table on the said wiki, it looks like the image is wrong. Can anybody confirm/deny that?
[9:47] <PaulFertser> The symbol i created looks like http://ompldr.org/vY3hkZg
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[9:54] <des2> WHich did you think it wrong ?
[9:58] <des2> The GPIO pins are different between your diagram and the elinux one
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[10:06] <haltdef> <+paul_-> i've already paid element14 tho, so they are a little late on the ball imho <- of you registered your interest around 6am that day you'll be able to get one of the first batch though
[10:06] <haltdef> hopefully
[10:07] <haltdef> I'd be interested to see when they hit their 5k
[10:07] <haltdef> 6:10? :P
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[10:12] <PaulFertser> des2: yes, but my diagram corresponds to the table below (on the same wiki page) and to the datasheet.
[10:13] * MooseEh (~MooseEh@96.49.107.205) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[10:14] <Xark_> PaulFertser: So you were able to trace the pinouts from the SoC (from the datasheet) via the PCB traces to the GPIO pins?
[10:15] * hathawbg (~hathawbg@S0106602ad06f3022.no.shawcable.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:16] <PaulFertser> Xark_: well, i do not have the board (yet) and i do not have the full datasheet. But the table on the wiki pretty much implies the "Chipset pins" are in fact GPIO numbers, at least this theory doesn't contradict the datasheet.
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[10:17] <Xark_> PaulFertser: I see. There could well be an issue with the wiki, but hard to know what is correct at the moment.
[10:18] <PaulFertser> Xark_: i wasn't able to find neither full schematics for the board nor it's 3D model (to sensibly design an expansion card) yet. What am i missing?
[10:19] <Xark_> PaulFertser: I only think they have release a "proof" of the PCB, not real layout or files.
[10:19] * heymaster (~heymaster@2002:4e3d:d4bc:0:542:ea12:b6d0:bdc7) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[10:20] <PaulFertser> Xark_: well, layout is not that important but schematics and some mechanical dimensions documents should be eventually published, right?
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[10:20] <Xark_> PaulFertser: No doubt. If not by the foundation, then by others. :)
[10:21] <Xark_> PaulFertser: I believe the info on the wiki is from posts by "Gert" (Mr Gertboard). He probably can tell you which is correct, I would guess.
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[10:24] <des2> So it just comes down to the numbering of the GPIO pins.
[10:24] <PaulFertser> Xark_: do you mean i'm supposed to email him personally? I wonder how come not many people are seem to be designing custom boards already :)
[10:26] <Xark_> PaulFertser: I am not sure the foundation is in a huge rush for this currently.
[10:26] <Xark_> PaulFertser: They are already busy.
[10:26] <des2> Also, minor point: The pins on the wiki say DNC while your diagram says 'NC' which are different things.
[10:27] <PaulFertser> des2: i doubt they're really DNC, does it make any sense to route something to a connector that shouldn't be connected?
[10:27] <des2> Yes for testing
[10:28] <des2> But I don't know if they are really NC or DNC.
[10:28] <des2> So I'd go with what they say at the moment.
[10:31] <PaulFertser> des2: they == Gert?
[10:31] <des2> I think so,.
[10:31] <PaulFertser> For testing and debugging they should have routed out the JTAG :/
[10:31] <des2> Did you look theough his thread on the forum ?
[10:32] <des2> Yeah that's what you'd think the JTAG was for.
[10:32] <des2> But who knows with the lack of documentation
[10:32] <PaulFertser> No, the forum was inaccessible last time i looked through it and anyway i assumed the wiki should have the most accurate info. Also, i'm allergic to "web-forums" and prefer mailing lists.
[10:34] <des2> I want a schematic...
[10:34] <Xark_> PaulFertser: I believe the wiki is volunteer run and most of the info is "scraped" from the forums.
[10:35] <Xark_> des2: They did confim again that they plan to release everything recently.
[10:36] <des2> I'm spoled by the Arduino.
[10:36] <des2> spoiled
[10:37] <PaulFertser> Xark_: forums suck so much, i can't understand how come somebody's still using those. MLs are superiour in every possible aspect...
[10:37] <des2> ..http://shop.ciseco.co.uk/slice-of-pi/
[10:38] <Xark_> PaulFertser: No argument. Also some forums are better than others. Theres is not one of them. :)
[10:38] <des2> Have you seen that Paul ?
[10:39] * Xark_ notes the expected release date is probably 3 days after the creators RPi will arrive from Newark. :-)
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[10:40] <Xark_> PaulFertser: They do have it setup so you can easily "google" their forum (for what it is worth).
[10:40] <PaulFertser> des2: thanks for the pointer
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[10:43] <des2> http://news.xydo.com/articles/40553443-pinout_for_gpio_connectors
[10:43] <des2> There's another perspective
[10:43] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) Quit (Excess Flood)
[10:44] <des2> some of the do-not-connect (DNC) pins will likely be replaced by
[10:44] <des2> GPIO in a subsequent board revision.
[10:44] <des2> That would provide another reason for 'DNC'
[10:44] <des2> Reserving the pins for later versions.
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[10:46] <PaulFertser> des2: GPIO1 and SCL0 is the same pin, so his description seems to be inaccurate.
[10:46] <Xark_> des2: I think they stated they hope to bring a few more SoC pins out.
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[10:52] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
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[10:56] <PaulFertser> des2: btw, in KiCad "Not connected" pins are not possible to connect to anything anyway, the ERC will generate an error. So NC is correct in this context.
[10:57] <des2> ahk
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[11:00] <des2> $%#@ing Broadcom
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[11:02] <Milos> !ticker
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[11:03] <Toneloc> Anyone here get a rpi yet?
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[11:04] <Toneloc> Or did they ship yet?
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[11:04] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac
[11:05] <des2> Have the distributors received them yet ?
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[11:17] <ShiftPlusOne> Toneloc, no, they haven't shipped yet, it will still be a while.
[11:17] <ShiftPlusOne> des2, I don't think RS has recieved any. It's possible Farnell already has 800.
[11:23] <Toneloc> Ah okay- I'm sure the blogs will be alive when people get them
[11:24] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:24] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[11:24] <Xark_> Toneloc: No doubt. :)
[11:24] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[11:31] * tobwilk (~tobwilk@94-193-248-120.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:31] * PiBot sets mode +v tobwilk
[11:32] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128004050.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:33] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * PiBot sets mode +v wiiguy
[11:34] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-91-41.as43234.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:34] * PiBot sets mode +v freddow
[11:34] * roman3x (~roman3x@bband-dyn200.178-40-6.t-com.sk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:34] * PiBot sets mode +v roman3x
[11:34] <PaulFertser> BTW, the idea of parental guidance on IRC seems to be so wrong in so many ways :/
[11:35] * Netlynx (~jan@d5153B33A.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Netlynx
[11:37] <haltdef> think of the children!
[11:38] <DDave> fuck the children
[11:38] <DDave> :D
[11:38] <DDave> TV is worse.
[11:38] <Toneloc> Irc isn't really kid friendly
[11:38] <DDave> exactly.
[11:38] <DDave> the words are in the dictionary, so we can use them.
[11:38] <DDave> :p
[11:39] <DDave> I mean, this isn't christloving #raspberrypi
[11:39] <DDave> where everything has to be censored ;)
[11:39] * Netlynx (~jan@d5153B33A.access.telenet.be) Quit (Changing host)
[11:39] * Netlynx (~jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Netlynx
[11:40] <Toneloc> Kifs would get accused of being trolls- which many physically look like given height:p
[11:40] <Toneloc> *kids
[11:43] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[11:43] <des2> It's not like the Raspberry Pi is for kids. They have real computers.
[11:43] * Matthew is now known as Guest10990
[11:46] <Toneloc> Lol Des2
[11:50] <des2> Hell, they got cell phones more powerful
[11:51] <Toneloc> Raspberrypi is for geeks
[11:51] <Toneloc> On a budget
[11:52] <Toneloc> I mean that in a good way
[11:53] <freddow> linux pi=heaven!
[11:53] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:53] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[11:53] * Guest10990 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[11:53] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:53] <Toneloc> Hehe
[11:55] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:57] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:57] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[11:59] <freddow> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEZ-NvSKJLI ,thanks??? Raspberry Pi for sending me here!
[12:02] * tobwilk (~tobwilk@94-193-248-120.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: tobwilk)
[12:03] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:03] * PiBot sets mode +v R`
[12:05] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@101.173.209.27) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:05] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[12:06] * oberling_ is now known as oberling
[12:07] <steve_rox> anything new/interesting going down?
[12:08] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-91-41.as43234.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:08] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@101.173.209.27) Quit (Client Quit)
[12:09] * [deXter] (dexter@79.133.200.37) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:11] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:12] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[12:12] * PiBot sets mode +v stefanrvo
[12:13] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[12:19] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
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[12:24] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-178-004-226-181.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:24] * PiBot sets mode +v roteiro
[12:24] * Christian9 (~christian@p4FE1E028.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian9
[12:25] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:25] * PiBot sets mode +v awakefield
[12:27] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[12:29] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-108-144.as43234.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[12:29] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[12:37] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Cemial
[12:39] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:39] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[12:47] <Toneloc> Could rpi be used for decoding DVb-t ?
[12:47] <Toneloc> Would it have enough CPU power?
[12:47] <Xark_> Toneloc: There is some debate, but probably not well if at all.
[12:48] * phoque (~nils@nrbg-4dbf197e.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:48] * PiBot sets mode +v phoque
[12:48] <Toneloc> I was thinking of using a usb dongle
[12:49] <Xark_> Toneloc: It can do SD res MPEG2, but more will start taxing the CPU too much (based on what I understand).
[12:49] <Toneloc> Analog is being turned off here in october
[12:50] <Toneloc> An rpi + usb decoder would be much cheaper than a SRV
[12:50] <Toneloc> *stb
[12:53] * mssssm (~marius@skysimulation.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:53] * PiBot sets mode +v mssssm
[12:53] <Tachyon`> hrm, a toneloc
[12:54] <Tachyon`> and no, it can't decode DVB-T, not a chance
[12:54] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[12:54] <_av500_> why not?
[12:55] <Tachyon`> because decoding chipsets are needed and it doesn't have them
[12:55] <_av500_> it can only decode h264?
[12:55] <Tachyon`> oh, it can probably play a clear mpeg2 stream
[12:56] <_av500_> so?
[12:56] <Tachyon`> did you have anything to contribute btw
[12:56] <Xark_> _av500_: It is really a codec licensing issue (coupled with the CPU not being strong enough to do it with code). The GPU can do it (and all other common formats), but the MPEG2 license was $2-3 per board so (and H264 was cheap and better).
[12:56] <Tachyon`> or just pop up to argue with me and add nothing
[12:56] <Tachyon`> ah, licensing
[12:57] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.70.120.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:57] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[12:57] <Tachyon`> but still, it has no decryption or receiving capabilities
[12:57] <Tachyon`> and most of the encryption these days is rather evil
[12:57] * Tachyon` glares in particular at Nagra 3
[12:57] <_av500_> well, of course it has not receiving capabilities
[12:57] <Tachyon`> again, anything to contribute or are you just going to snipe at me from the peanut gallery
[12:58] <Tachyon`> actually, forget it, welcome to my ignore list
[12:58] <_av500_> I was asking if it can decode mpeg2 in hardware
[12:58] <_av500_> but yes, suit yourself
[12:58] <Xark_> The nice part is they did pay the fee so you do get (legal) hardware h264 (and OpenGL ES). :)
[12:58] <Ben64> Tachyon`: what?
[12:59] <Tachyon`> not you
[12:59] <Ben64> i know, but i'm confused
[12:59] <Ben64> you ignore people that ask questions?
[13:00] <Tachyon`> well, not that I'm answerable to you, I answer people who ask questions, I ignore people who pipe up only to argue and add nothing new
[13:00] <normod> sounds a bit harsh
[13:00] <Ben64> you must be reading a different channel than I
[13:00] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] * PiBot sets mode +v canton7
[13:02] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[13:03] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:03] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[13:03] * tobwilk (~tobwilk@94-193-248-120.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:03] * PiBot sets mode +v tobwilk
[13:08] * ShaneHudson (~sh548@raptor.ukc.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:08] * PiBot sets mode +v ShaneHudson
[13:10] <h0llywood1> i received the email for pre order!
[13:10] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@101.173.209.27) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:10] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[13:11] <Tachyon`> from RS?
[13:11] <Tachyon`> I received a wait for your email email
[13:11] * koda (~vittorio@host106-71-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:11] * PiBot sets mode +v koda
[13:11] <Tachyon`> but not an actual here's your pi email
[13:11] <chris_99> what did it say h0llywood1?
[13:11] <Milos> LOL Tachyon`
[13:12] <h0llywood1> PRE-ORDER NOW OPEN JUST FOR YOU
[13:12] <h0llywood1> Thanks for your patience
[13:12] <h0llywood1> and a link for pre order on elements 14
[13:12] <chris_99> oh that's farnell
[13:12] <chris_99> not RS
[13:12] <Milos> farnell == element14
[13:12] <Ben64> to be fair, he never said RS
[13:12] * Milos is now known as Ben32
[13:12] <Ben32> hello
[13:12] <Ben64> original
[13:12] <Ben32> pff
[13:13] * Ben32 is now known as Milos
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> I've today got a wait for email email from RS too
[13:13] <h0llywood1> 36 ??? and 41??? w/ VAT
[13:13] <Milos> hey it's SpeedEvil
[13:13] <chris_99> yeah thats what mine is too SpeedEvil
[13:13] <Milos> from ##electronics?
[13:13] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[13:14] <Vazde> does that include shipping?
[13:14] <h0llywood1> Vazde :: yes
[13:15] * swiley (~swiley@181.sub-75-192-7.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:15] * PiBot sets mode +v swiley
[13:15] <h0llywood1> the actual price is 43,64??? for Italy
[13:15] * FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) Quit (Changing host)
[13:15] * FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:15] * PiBot sets mode +v FireFly
[13:16] <h0llywood1> 27??? the rasberry pi, 9??? shipping and 7,57??? VAT
[13:17] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.70.120.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[13:17] <h0llywood1> but they say time of shipping 58 days.......
[13:18] <h0llywood1> they give me a tshirt too
[13:18] <h0llywood1> lol
[13:18] <h0llywood1> To mark the launch of this incredible innovation, we are giving away FREE to our pre-order customers our exclusive co-branded T-Shirts.
[13:19] <h0llywood1> http://piregistration.element14.com/images/email/tshirts.jpg
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> IOW - 'hey, if we get the kiddies in china to do t-shirts at night, from their day-shift making Pis, it's only $1.5 extra, and free marketing!'
[13:20] <Vazde> a shirt?[B[B[Bo.o
[13:20] <steve_rox> they give away free t shirts now?
[13:21] <steve_rox> werid
[13:21] <Xark_> steve_rox: Yeah, you know they need to drum up some interest after all. :)
[13:22] <steve_rox> i spose really poor ppl that cant afford clothing may be interested
[13:22] <steve_rox> :-P
[13:22] <steve_rox> must be some kinda logic behind the desire for tshirts with brand names on em
[13:23] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:23] <Vazde> is there any estimates of preorder amounts? Someone said over million, but that can't be right, can it?
[13:23] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:23] * PiBot sets mode +v ShiftPlusOne2
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Vazde: I suspect that that may be a hit number.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Or a number of acccesses total to their website when it was 'down'
[13:24] <ShaneHudson> The wiki said over 2 million... I would say 200 thousand is pretty possible but a million or to? Im not sure
[13:24] <ShaneHudson> *two
[13:24] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:24] * PiBot sets mode +v qptain_Nemo
[13:24] * ShiftPlusOne (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[13:24] <steve_rox> probly going to be a while before these things are in flowing in market faster
[13:24] <steve_rox> like the hdd shortage
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> For it to be a couple of million - in say US/UK - you need one per hundred people.
[13:24] <dwery> farnell was faster.. i registered on both RS and farnell, but never heard from RS
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Ish.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> I'm gonna say bollox.
[13:24] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.70.120.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:24] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[13:25] <dwery> I guess farnell is getting most of the orders
[13:25] <steve_rox> should of given prioity to the uk since it was made here :-P
[13:25] <dwery> there's even a popup on their site
[13:25] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-178-004-226-181.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[13:25] <ShaneHudson> same, no luck with RS... which is weird because for the entire first day Farnell seemed offline, whereas RS just had the interest page
[13:25] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@101.173.209.27) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:25] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.70.120.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:25] <Simon-> Farnell weren't offline
[13:25] <Simon-> (except for a couple of times where they did disable their website)
[13:25] <steve_rox> just dead
[13:25] * Cracknel (~cracknel@109.96.191.83) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:26] * Cracknel (~cracknel@109.96.191.83) Quit (Changing host)
[13:26] * Cracknel (~cracknel@unaffiliated/cracknel) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:26] * PiBot sets mode +v Cracknel
[13:26] * PiBot sets mode +v Cracknel
[13:26] <ShaneHudson> both companies had a recorded message on their phone.. it seemed as large as an Apple launch!
[13:27] <Milos> PIBOT Y U GIVE VOICE TWICE
[13:27] <steve_rox> larger
[13:27] <Simon-> does raspberrypi.org say "You Are Banned." for everyone then?
[13:27] <Milos> oh coz they joined twice
[13:27] <Milos> nvm
[13:27] <ShaneHudson> Simon-: yeah you have to go to the www. instead of without
[13:30] <steve_rox> amazing what ppl get banned for these days :-P
[13:31] <ShaneHudson> lol
[13:32] * iMatttt (~imatttt@79-71-84-127.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:32] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[13:33] <normod> that's the stupidest thing ever
[13:33] <normod> that you have to use www
[13:33] <normod> they should fix it asap
[13:34] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@245-178.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy_
[13:36] <normod> !weather_set c
[13:36] <PiBot> normod: You're now using celsius.
[13:36] <normod> !weather
[13:36] <normod> !w
[13:36] <normod> :(
[13:37] <ironzorg> You Are Banned.
[13:38] <ironzorg> sounds like "you are grounded, no rpi for you"
[13:40] <fragalot> haha
[13:41] <steve_rox> or erm "youve been face-pi'ed"
[13:41] <steve_rox> or something
[13:42] * iMatttt (~imatttt@79-71-84-127.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:55] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5695.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:55] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[13:55] * Xark_ 's favorite mini-thread (In response to an article about Raspberry Pi selling out in minutes): It sold in 3.14159 minutes! [reply] No, it didn't. You are being irrational...
[13:56] <ReggieUK> ignorant as well as irrational :D
[13:56] <ReggieUK> as the pi stands for python
[13:56] <ReggieUK> not circle stuff
[13:57] <Xark_> ReggieUK: Well, perhaps a bit of both. :)
[13:58] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[13:59] * zma (~zmac@lan31-h01-31-32-96-210.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:59] * PiBot sets mode +v zma
[13:59] * zma (~zmac@lan31-h01-31-32-96-210.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) has left #raspberrypi
[14:08] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:08] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz_
[14:11] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[14:16] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:16] * PiBot sets mode +v awakefield
[14:16] * clorofollia (~rednyx@ks386685.kimsufi.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:16] * PiBot sets mode +v clorofollia
[14:17] * clorofollia (~rednyx@ks386685.kimsufi.com) has left #raspberrypi
[14:20] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[14:21] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[14:24] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[14:32] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:32] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:32] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[14:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[14:34] * Cracknel (~cracknel@unaffiliated/cracknel) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:38] * dormant (~dormant@d54C2D23B.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:38] * PiBot sets mode +v dormant
[14:40] * weechatter (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] * PiBot sets mode +v weechatter
[14:41] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:41] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[14:43] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@x1-6-00-22-75-b5-3e-92.k353.webspeed.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:43] * PiBot sets mode +v katnegermis
[14:43] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:43] <des2> Then shouldn't it be Raspberry Py ?
[14:44] <flaushy> Pyberry ^^
[14:45] <Chinese_soup> :)
[14:45] <flaushy> the domain is even free o.O
[14:45] <chris_99> how do you know Pi stands for python ReggieUK
[14:46] <ReggieUK> something eben said in an interview
[14:46] <chris_99> aha
[14:46] <ReggieUK> http://www.techthefuture.com/technology/what-are-you-doing/
[14:46] <ReggieUK> I win
[14:47] * codesnow (~snow@72.53.127.167) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:47] * PiBot sets mode +v codesnow
[14:47] <chris_99> heh
[14:48] <flaushy> thx for clearing that up ReggieUK
[14:49] <ReggieUK> np
[14:49] <ReggieUK> now the misinformed can stop quoting 3.14 jokes
[14:49] <chris_99> 'What might be interesting is the possibility to use the Raspberry Pi as a host for the Arduino board ? the combination of these two, resulting in low priced systems can be very interesting and useful?. thats quite an interesting idea
[14:49] <ReggieUK> or bathe in their own ignorance
[14:50] <ReggieUK> +1 for most use of the word interesting
[14:50] <chris_99> hehe
[14:50] <IT_Sean> Interesting.
[14:50] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:51] <ReggieUK> joking aside, yup, I agree, although the pi on it's own will do some gpio stuff of it's own but using an arduino would just give you most of what you need
[14:51] <ReggieUK> albeit through serial probably
[14:52] <chris_99> yeah, i guess attaching to the arduino may give you more IO to play with too
[14:52] <ReggieUK> that would be the point of attaching an ardiuno to a pi :D
[14:52] * mssssm (~marius@skysimulation.de) has left #raspberrypi
[14:53] <normod> well, it's hard to get full hd on an arduino
[14:53] <ReggieUK> ?
[14:53] <chris_99> i wonder whether an IDE cable could be used to attach to the GPIO ports
[14:53] <ReggieUK> chris_99, no reason why not
[14:53] <chris_99> cool
[14:54] <ReggieUK> although you can probably buy an idc connector with the right number of pins/sockets
[14:54] <chris_99> yeah, i've just got a load of old IDE cables knocking around heh
[14:54] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:54] * PiBot sets mode +v tr-808
[14:55] <ReggieUK> it'll all fall apart as a plan when you come to trim the connector down to size
[14:55] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:58] <fragalot> chris_99: you can still use the ide cables, just rip the number of wires you need off & replace the connector with one with the right pin count
[14:58] * sajimon (~sajimon@valhalla.walgard.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:58] * PiBot sets mode +v sajimon
[14:59] <ReggieUK> fragalot, indeed, I Didn't mention that because I thought it would be a given
[14:59] <ReggieUK> brb
[14:59] <sajimon> Hello everyone, i suspect someone already asked this, but is it possible to order raspberry in element14 for individual person, nto a company?
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> yes
[15:00] * kallisti5 (~kallisti5@discord.unixzen.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:00] * PiBot sets mode +v kallisti5
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> They all will sell to individual people.
[15:00] <sajimon> Hm delivery form is a bit confisuing
[15:00] <kallisti5> anyone know the license on arm224_start.elf and friends?
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> You may need to enter a company name.
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> Just invent one
[15:00] <sajimon> Oh
[15:01] <fragalot> just don't use "anonymous" as the company name
[15:01] <kallisti5> I just use "self"
[15:01] <sajimon> hope courier wont need a company stamp on delivery
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> They don't.
[15:02] <fragalot> never heard of a courier needing that
[15:02] <fragalot> i've taken deliveries for several companies, all they ask is a random scribble
[15:02] <fragalot> i've never even been ID'd & taken deliveries for companies I don't work for, lol
[15:02] <fragalot> (on request of the owner)
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> The only time I needed to supply ID was once when I got a assport.
[15:03] * curahack (~michel@sub-190-88-65ip211.rev.onenet.an) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:03] * PiBot sets mode +v curahack
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> passoprt
[15:03] <sajimon> all right then
[15:04] * ObliqueTroll (~n800@85.211.125.169) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] * PiBot sets mode +v ObliqueTroll
[15:05] <des2> I'd just assume not supply an ID and pass on the assport.
[15:05] <Thorn_> yeah show the guy your assport
[15:06] <ObliqueTroll> heh
[15:06] <sajimon> crap, 35$ became 35 pounds
[15:06] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[15:06] <ObliqueTroll> what happened to ??21.60
[15:06] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] * PiBot sets mode +v hamitron
[15:07] <sajimon> some vat and delivery stuff
[15:07] * ObliqueTroll hasn't been back to the rs register interest page lately
[15:07] <Thorn_> ??10 delivery?
[15:07] <ObliqueTroll> ah, i see
[15:08] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:08] * PiBot sets mode +v awakefield
[15:08] <sajimon> yeah, so they claim, as for VAT shouldnt it be 0$ in EU?
[15:08] <SpeedEvil> sajimon:
[15:08] <SpeedEvil> It's whatever the %age is of the shipping state
[15:08] <SpeedEvil> if in the EU
[15:08] <SpeedEvil> So 20%, if ordering from the UK
[15:08] <Thorn_> terrible
[15:09] <ObliqueTroll> how will we ever afford one as a toy now?
[15:10] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:11] <sajimon> hehe
[15:12] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:12] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[15:13] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[15:19] <sajimon> ok, eventualy it ended up at 24 pounds with "vat may be charged by locals" notice
[15:20] <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: Hi :) i wonder if you're interested in https://gitorious.org/raspeberry-jtag/raspeberry-jtag/blobs/master/README.org ?
[15:21] <ObliqueTroll> the guy who sold 39 raspis he didn't have for ??50 each doesn't seem to have acquired nearly enough negative feedback yet. feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=martyctalk&&_trksid=p4340.l2560&iid=290677406685&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: err - what?
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: Ah - other way round
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming you were doing JTAG of
[15:22] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:22] * PiBot sets mode +v Magoggles
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Does not look insane.
[15:22] * pistacik_ (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:22] * PiBot sets mode +v pistacik_
[15:23] <Magoggles> loonux is killing my computer :(
[15:23] <PaulFertser> I'd think that would be a nice addon for the folks who want to start doing modern embedded (e.g. STM32).
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> PaulFertser: yup.
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> stm is a bit silly.
[15:23] <PaulFertser> How?
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> I'm involved peripherally - I'm getting a couple of boards - with someone doing GPS on one.
[15:23] <ObliqueTroll> Magoggles, how so?
[15:24] <Magoggles> not really
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> As in processing the raw bitstream from a decoder chip, and doing the correlation in software.
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> With fourier transforms for locking.
[15:24] <Magoggles> just coincidentally having windows shit its pants after installing a new linux system a few days ago
[15:25] <ObliqueTroll> Magoggles, really, or is linux holding your machine hostage and forcing you to tell me that
[15:25] <Magoggles> um.... really...
[15:25] <Magoggles> :P
[15:26] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[15:27] <Magoggles> im pretty sure its just the slightly toasted RAM im still using, my last PSU went to shit and started cooking RAMen
[15:28] * garma (~NJ@cpc6-sotn11-2-0-cust198.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:28] * PiBot sets mode +v garma
[15:31] <Toneloc> Someone mentioned something to me earlier- I was idlibg via smartphone so I know someone wanted me- but I have no log
[15:31] <PaulFertser> SpeedEvil: i'm all ears
[15:32] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:32] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[15:32] <Toneloc> *idling
[15:33] <oldtopman> Does anybody here have a raspi so that I can test ArmedSlack on it?
[15:33] <oldtopman> I believe I have a working build.
[15:33] <Milos> who actually has one here
[15:33] <oldtopman> Somebody has to have the 100 beta boards.
[15:34] <oldtopman> Why wouldn't one of them be here?
[15:34] <Milos> 100?
[15:34] <Milos> I thought they just sold 10...
[15:34] <oldtopman> I don't believe that they sold any. But 100 were made
[15:34] <Milos> they sold 10....
[15:34] <Milos> on ebay
[15:34] <Milos> it was all posted on their blog.
[15:34] <oldtopman> oic
[15:34] * oldtopman feels bad because he missed it
[15:35] <ObliqueTroll> they went for insane prices
[15:35] <Milos> it was like $$$$s
[15:35] <oldtopman> How much did they go for, do you know?
[15:35] <Milos> yeah
[15:35] <oldtopman> ah.
[15:35] <Milos> thousands
[15:35] <oldtopman> Well then, I don't feel bad anymore
[15:35] <Milos> $1000-$3000 USD
[15:35] <BCMM> oldtopman: it was, like, a fundraising auction
[15:35] * Christian9 (~christian@p4FE1E028.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:35] * Christian9 (~christian@p57A3CE83.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian9
[15:35] <BCMM> more than a chance for lucky people to get one early
[15:35] <Milos> yeah
[15:35] <BCMM> serial number one went for something incredible and was anonymously donated to a museum
[15:36] <Milos> yeah man it was massive
[15:36] <Milos> the prie
[15:36] <Milos> s/e/ce/
[15:36] <BCMM> "thce prie"
[15:36] <Milos> ugh
[15:36] <Milos> you know what I mean.
[15:36] <BCMM> (sorry)
[15:36] <Milos> :D
[15:37] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ip6-27-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Hopsy
[15:37] <BCMM> i love sed.
[15:37] <oldtopman> wow.
[15:37] <Milos> oldtopman, http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/482
[15:37] <oldtopman> "Error establishing a database connection"
[15:37] <Milos> what? works fine for me
[15:37] <oldtopman> Thanks for trying though.
[15:37] * oldtopman kicks the rpi servers
[15:37] <Milos> r u kidding
[15:38] <Milos> it works fine here
[15:38] <oldtopman> nope.
[15:38] * oldtopman reloads a few times
[15:38] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:38] * PiBot sets mode +v awakefield
[15:38] <Milos> damn it's not a dedicated server so I can't just give you the IP
[15:38] <oldtopman> There, it works!
[15:38] <Milos> yay
[15:38] <oldtopman> wow, epic;
[15:39] <Milos> yeah
[15:39] <Milos> but they really went for hiiiigh prices
[15:39] * DeviceZer0 (~hate@unaffiliated/devicezer0) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[15:39] <oldtopman> Still, it seems so unbelieveable that this is going to be as outdated as the BBC One in a few decades.
[15:39] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[15:40] <Milos> well all-in-all it shouldn't be that amazing should it; can't some phones already play 1080p video and all that
[15:40] <Milos> I did manage to buy one though, I had to use a console text browser to order
[15:40] <Milos> and man did THAT load slowly..
[15:40] <oldtopman> True, but those cost-waitwat
[15:40] <oldtopman> Milhouse: You bought a BBC One?
[15:40] <Milos> nooooo
[15:40] <Milos> the raspberrypi
[15:41] <Milos> on the launch day
[15:41] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:41] <oldtopman> ah.
[15:41] <oldtopman> For a minute there, I thought you had bought a beta board.
[15:41] <Milos> I wish
[15:41] <Milos> can't afford one of those.
[15:42] <Magoggles> mmm roast children... and by children I mean lamb
[15:42] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[15:43] <Milos> I read that as chicken at first
[15:44] * Raedon5 (~BlueBeep@109.77.192.136) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:44] * PiBot sets mode +v Raedon5
[15:44] <Magoggles> so has the foundation been raided by raspi fanatics yet?
[15:44] <oldtopman> Yerp.
[15:44] <Raedon5> .
[15:44] <oldtopman> two MILLION enquiries.
[15:45] <BCMM> oldtopman: where?
[15:45] <ObliqueTroll> surely most raspi fanatics scorch in daylight
[15:45] <Magoggles> who robs a place in daylight?
[15:45] <oldtopman> BCMM: Post launch FAQ. Was somewhere on the wiki.
[15:45] <BCMM> the site is back up?
[15:45] <Milos> ypu
[15:45] <Milos> s/pu/up/
[15:46] <oldtopman> The wiki has always been up >>>
[15:46] <Milos> >>>
[15:46] <oldtopman> *>.>
[15:46] <Milos> <.<
[15:46] <BCMM> well, i guess the stupidly-high volume production is going to happen
[15:46] <Milos> ya
[15:47] * Toneloc (~Toneloc@109.77.192.136) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[15:47] <BCMM> also, looks like having somebody else handle distribution was sensible
[15:47] <BCMM> and that getting a reduced profit per unit isn't going to bankrupt them
[15:48] * schigndix (~schigndix@95.130.165.190) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:48] * PiBot sets mode +v schigndix
[15:49] <oldtopman> BCMM: The major problem is getting stuck in the OpenPandors paradox.
[15:49] <oldtopman> Never has enough money to make many units > Makes just a few > doesn't get a bunch of money > repeat
[15:49] <BCMM> what happened to them?
[15:49] * oldtopman weeps
[15:49] <BCMM> not sure i understand there
[15:49] <oldtopman> THey had this idea, the OP.
[15:50] <oldtopman> They got it made, back then tech like that would have been epic.
[15:50] <oldtopman> Well, getting things started was slow. I mean, it took them 5 years to get a proper first batch.
[15:50] <oldtopman> And they're hand assembled.
[15:50] * schigndix (~schigndix@95.130.165.190) Quit (Client Quit)
[15:50] <oldtopman> But they don't have any to sell because they have no money.
[15:51] <oldtopman> They have no money because they don't have any to sell.
[15:51] <flaushy> and they didnt want to take preorders
[15:51] <oldtopman> flaushy: THey did take Preorders, that was their kickstarter, so to speak.
[15:52] <oldtopman> But fast forward another 3-4 years and look what we have here.
[15:52] <BCMM> oldtopman: well, teh foundation has said throughout that they have enough funding
[15:52] <oldtopman> Smartphones that would put that thing to shame.
[15:52] <BCMM> also, the betaboard auction was a neat idea
[15:52] <flaushy> oldtopman: i meant like "give us cash and in some months you will get product", they tried to not be a vaporware
[15:53] <oldtopman> Yeah, but things just didn't turn out well for them.
[15:53] <oldtopman> And you still have to pay $250 for em!
[15:53] <flaushy> i think they did a good job in the process
[15:53] <oldtopman> AND there are still people who ordered a few months after launch and haven't seen a one.
[15:54] <flaushy> oldtopman: do you have a url or such, i think i am lacking some background information
[15:54] <Magoggles> they clearly failed because they didnt have a name that included a pun involving a type of food and a mathematical constant
[15:55] <oldtopman> heh
[15:55] <ReggieUK> ignorance strikes again
[15:55] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:55] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[15:56] <oldtopman> The MangoMo?bius
[15:56] <oldtopman> That's the name that would have sold, clearly.
[15:56] <oldtopman> :P
[15:56] <oldtopman> constant, not a phemomenon?
[15:56] * [1]des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-44-177.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:56] * PiBot sets mode +v [1]des2
[15:56] <oldtopman> Avagadro's Avaacdo
[15:57] <Magoggles> lol!
[15:57] <oldtopman> iLemon
[15:57] <ReggieUK> plancks banana
[15:57] <oldtopman> i = square root of -1
[15:57] <Milos> iLemomenon
[15:57] <oldtopman> or if we want to be meta.
[15:57] <ReggieUK> occams ugly fruit
[15:57] <oldtopman> FruityMath
[15:57] <oldtopman> Morning ReggieUK.
[15:57] * Matt2897 (522e0baf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.46.11.175) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Matt2897
[15:58] <oldtopman> FibonacciFigs
[15:58] <Raedon5> Newton's Apple !
[15:58] <Raedon5> ^^ copyright(s) infringement
[15:58] <oldtopman> There's a lawsuit if you use that one >.>
[15:59] <Raedon5> I think there wasa a newton computer in the 80's?
[15:59] <Raedon5> also, some thing called an Apple ?
[15:59] <Raedon5> :P
[15:59] <Magoggles> nah
[15:59] <BCMM> Raedon5: trademark, actually.
[15:59] <Magoggles> you're thinking of something else dude
[15:59] <ReggieUK> hi oldtopman
[15:59] <mrdragons> Apple? Must be one of those obscure chinese brands
[15:59] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-32-91.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[15:59] * [1]des2 is now known as des2
[15:59] <IT_Sean> ....
[15:59] <BCMM> but yeah, apples owns all references to apples, the letter i and the colour white
[16:00] <oldtopman> ^
[16:00] <Magoggles> also touchscreens
[16:00] <oldtopman> AND rectangles, don't forget.
[16:00] <oldtopman> Plus anything that has you sliding to unlock.
[16:00] <normod> and black turtlenecks
[16:00] <ReggieUK> oldtopman, you mean like a door?
[16:00] <oldtopman> www.wikipedia.com/en/Apple_vs._Schlage
[16:00] <ReggieUK> it's not even a fricking lock
[16:00] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: ^
[16:01] <normod> Apple vs the slide ruler
[16:01] <oldtopman> I mean, deadbolts clearly infringe on apple's patent.
[16:01] <BCMM> oldtopman: what is this i don't even
[16:01] <mrdragons> oldtopman: 404...
[16:01] <Magoggles> so... if the windows logo was rectangular... lol
[16:01] <oldtopman> Also, what do you call Deadbolts in europe? (Not a joke, serious question)
[16:01] <ReggieUK> hmmn, I think it's just dead bolt
[16:01] <Raedon5> ^^just that
[16:02] <oldtopman> BCMM: They must have taken it down! Not that I made a fake link just for the hell of it. D:
[16:02] <oldtopman> Ah.
[16:02] <Raedon5> never heard them called anything else here
[16:02] <BCMM> oldtopman: it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article
[16:02] * oldtopman keeps watching DoctorWho and hears him talking about Deadlock
[16:02] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.70.120.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:02] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[16:02] <Raedon5> anyways, is DTV-T from a usb stick practical for rpi?
[16:02] <oldtopman> Because all europeans are like the Doctor WHo show :P
[16:03] <h0llywood1> hey guys! anyone can give me a coupon code for farnell? thanks
[16:03] <ReggieUK> I'm surprised they haven't sued toilet paper manufacturers because of the wipe nature of the product sounds and looks like the swipe across an apple screen
[16:03] <IT_Sean> h0llywood1: 0U812
[16:03] <oldtopman> ReggieUK: Slide to unlock undies!
[16:03] <BCMM> Raedon5: that's MPEG-2 - afaik, no word on whether the GPU will decode that
[16:03] <oldtopman> IT_Sean: Are you serious?
[16:03] <BCMM> maybe the cpu is fast enough at SD, i dunno
[16:03] <IT_Sean> oldtopman, serious about what?
[16:04] <oldtopman> There being a code.
[16:04] <IT_Sean> I was joking
[16:04] <h0llywood1> IT_Sean :: thanks but i don't think it's possible with the rasberry pi order :(
[16:04] <oldtopman> ah.
[16:04] * oldtopman would have been so mad.
[16:04] <Thorn_> that code worked fine here
[16:04] <IT_Sean> There are no discount codes for the raspi
[16:04] <Thorn_> took $10 off
[16:04] <Raedon5> * Isaac Newton sat undera tree and an Apple (TM) fell upon his head -luckily it was in it protective case :P
[16:04] <ReggieUK> perhaps it's a uk only code?
[16:04] <ReggieUK> it worked here
[16:05] <mrdragons> Nah, I'm in the US and it worked
[16:05] <h0llywood1> any italian code? :D
[16:05] <IT_Sean> It's good for ??13 off, i heard.
[16:05] <IT_Sean> :p
[16:05] <Thorn_> actually when i look back, it gav me ??21.60 off
[16:05] <ReggieUK> here's an italian code P122A
[16:06] <mrdragons> :D
[16:06] <Magoggles> y'know.. im having more trouble getting my nvidia 550 ti to work in fedora in 2012.. than I had getting my geforce 4 mx 440 to work in 2004
[16:06] <h0llywood1> no luck with that :( wtf?
[16:06] <Raedon5> <BCMM> I see- if it could be confirmed to work- I would buy at least one rpi- as an rpi + dvb-T usb dongle would be far cheaper than a STB
[16:07] * ReggieUK really LOLs
[16:07] <ReggieUK> you can get pci dvb-t boards for about ??25
[16:08] <Raedon5> well, the STB boxes that they sell here atm- for our new service they are quoting 80 euro
[16:08] <BCMM> ReggieUK: those sorta require a PC
[16:08] <h0llywood1> ReggieUK :: where did you find the codes?
[16:08] <Raedon5> I havent researched what boxes will be suitable for our system- but Im sure as heck not buying one at 80 euro
[16:09] <ReggieUK> it seems that Raedon5 is looking for a cheaper alternative to a stb
[16:09] <h0llywood1> maybe i can understand why they don't work for me :(
[16:09] <Raedon5> IAs far as i know- it is supposed to be different to the british DVB-T standard
[16:09] <ReggieUK> pi is sort of one way to go, although who knows whether the cpu/usb will cope
[16:10] <ReggieUK> but I would have a good look around at the technology
[16:10] <ReggieUK> I bet it's 99% the same crap with a different firmware for the region
[16:10] * themArt (57c2a27e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.194.162.126) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:10] <Raedon5> my plan was rpi + DVB-T usb dongle + monitor = cheap tv set-up
[16:10] <Raedon5> that should be easy on power
[16:10] <Magoggles> even though I dont want a pi for a media center... I want to see how well it performs vs the $400 htpc I built a couple of months ago
[16:10] * Matt2897 (522e0baf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.46.11.175) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:10] <BCMM> ReggieUK: not sure why the USB would struggle - can it not do standard data rates?
[16:10] <Raedon5> and everything except the cheap dongle can be used for other stuff
[16:11] * Xark_ (32717be5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.113.123.229) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:11] <Raedon5> so, I could perhaps save monye and have fun by using an rpi :)
[16:11] * |seca| (32583634@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.88.54.52) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:11] <ReggieUK> if you're buying a model B then it's already sharing the usb pins with the network chip, as the network chip is the 'hub' that gives the model B it's second socket
[16:11] <Raedon5> but, im sure it will just happen that you will be able to buy a STB in ASDA for 15 stg in awhile
[16:12] * kyzz (18a6516d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.166.81.109) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:12] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
[16:13] <mjr> Raedon5, DVB-T being mpeg-2 might be a problem since GPU decoding of that is not available for licensing reasons
[16:13] <ReggieUK> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Digital_broadcast_standards.svg
[16:13] <h0llywood1> ReggieUK :: can you tell me where did you find the coupon code? it doesn't work for me :(
[16:13] <ReggieUK> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_television_deployments_by_country
[16:13] <BCMM> the annoying thing is that i'm sure the hardware would be up to it, provided a suitable codec for the GPU can be obtained
[16:13] <ReggieUK> http://www.smartauto24.com/tv-antenna/car-digital-tv-dvb-t-mpeg-2-for-uk-france-germany-italy-etc
[16:13] * Magoggles (~androirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:13] * PiBot sets mode +v Magoggles
[16:13] <mjr> the ARM code may not be up to the task even at SD, though I am not certain
[16:13] <mjr> core
[16:14] <ReggieUK> that last link pretty much says it all really
[16:14] <ReggieUK> 1 unit covering most of europe
[16:14] <ReggieUK> Microprocessor
[16:14] <ReggieUK> SUNPLUS SPHE1002
[16:14] <BCMM> mjr: what i mean is, the gpu can do 1080p h.264 - i'm sure it can manage sd mpeg-2, but we may not get access to that codec
[16:15] <ReggieUK> looks to be the chip to look for when looking for suitable english/italian boxes
[16:15] <mjr> yes, that's what I said
[16:15] <BCMM> (dvb-t is an mpeg-2 stream)
[16:15] <ReggieUK> BCMM, that's the point, h.264 is the only codec we'll have access to
[16:15] <BCMM> ReggieUK: ah, is that confirmed now?
[16:15] <ReggieUK> everything else is cpu
[16:16] <ReggieUK> it's been confirmed for a while
[16:16] <BCMM> well, that's rather annoying
[16:16] <BCMM> not blaming the foundation, blaming that screwed-up patent system
[16:16] <h0llywood1> Thorn_ :: can you tell me where did you find the code?
[16:16] * Magoggles (~androirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:16] * conra_ (~ping@ip-178-216-200-30.e24cloud.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:16] * PiBot sets mode +v conra_
[16:16] <ReggieUK> I personally hope that the foundation start to talk to the codec people and see if we can agree some 3rd party licensing of some kind but no idea how that would work in reality
[16:16] * conra (~krzysiu@ip-178-216-200-8.e24cloud.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[16:16] * conra_ is now known as conra
[16:16] <Thorn_> h0llywood1: if i told ya i'd have to kill ya
[16:17] <ReggieUK> without people 'borrowing' other peoples blobs
[16:17] <h0llywood1> come on :D
[16:17] <IT_Sean> h0llywood1, there are no coupon codes.
[16:17] <Thorn_> eben told me
[16:17] <ReggieUK> P122A is definitely not an italian coupon for farnell
[16:17] <Thorn_> hahahaha
[16:17] <h0llywood1> LOL
[16:17] <KaiNeR> Lol
[16:18] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:18] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[16:18] <DataSpree> I wonder if the roku supports the mpeg2 codec?
[16:18] * Magoggles (~androirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:18] * PiBot sets mode +v Magoggles
[16:18] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-178-004-226-181.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:18] * PiBot sets mode +v roteiro
[16:18] <ReggieUK> DataSpree, that's the kind of thinking we need :D
[16:18] <h0llywood1> i meant the 0U812 code
[16:18] <ReggieUK> sideways
[16:19] <ReggieUK> h0llywood1, oh you ate one too? 0U812
[16:19] <IT_Sean> h0llywood1. I was joking w/ that one. There. Are. No. Coupon. Codes. For. The. Raspi.
[16:19] <Thorn_> apart from the private coupon codes for people the Foundation are friendly with
[16:20] <ShaneHudson> then surely Alec should have got one, which he didn't AFAIK
[16:20] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:20] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[16:21] * tashbear (~pedro@unaffiliated/el-tash/x-7763973) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:21] * PiBot sets mode +v tashbear
[16:21] <tashbear> !ticket
[16:21] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[16:21] <mrdragons> !ticker
[16:22] <mrdragons> Guess he took it off, heh
[16:22] <DataSpree> looks like the biggest roku, the roku 2 xs only supports mp4 (h.264) and mkv (h.264) so they must not have licensed the codec either
[16:24] <BCMM> outside the US, mpeg-2 is free (although specific implementation may not be)
[16:25] * iMatttt (~imatttt@79-71-84-127.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:25] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[16:27] <ObliqueTroll> what's a roku?
[16:28] <h0llywood1> why farnell think i am a company?
[16:28] * synapse (~synapse@c-76-109-62-10.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:28] * PiBot sets mode +v synapse
[16:28] <DataSpree> a streaming media box that uses the same SOC as the raspberry pi
[16:28] <ObliqueTroll> anything like the sumvision players?
[16:28] <BCMM> ah, i see the relevance now
[16:28] <ShaneHudson> thought the SOC was R-Pi only?
[16:28] <ObliqueTroll> ah, i see
[16:29] <DataSpree> no, Broadcom sells this chip to other companies
[16:29] <ShaneHudson> Ah ok, I thought just be thinking of the price they get it for then
[16:29] <ReggieUK> with different licensing terms
[16:29] <ReggieUK> the pi foundation is really a special case as far as broadcom are concerned
[16:30] <ReggieUK> they got a decent price break on the low volume of 10k units
[16:30] * Ollzer (~ollzer@87-100-252-171.bb.dnainternet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:30] <Magoggles> Well it helps when you got someone from Broadcom
[16:30] <ReggieUK> of course
[16:30] <ReggieUK> but it's something to be thankful of
[16:30] <Cromulent> gah estimated delivery date: 30/4/2012 :(
[16:31] <Magoggles> Yeah
[16:31] <ReggieUK> however much bad press broadcom get for not being hobbyist friendly, this is a decent gesture
[16:31] * whyamIbanned (5c628dff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.98.141.255) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:31] * PiBot sets mode +v whyamIbanned
[16:32] <DataSpree> i think so too
[16:32] <ReggieUK> lets hope this is the start of a new era from them and we'll start getting real datasheets out of them for future/past products
[16:32] <whyamIbanned> Greetings, I tried accessing raspberrypi.org and got a "You are banned." message. I have no idea idea why.
[16:32] <h0llywood1> anyone without a company have already bought rpi on farnell website?
[16:32] <Magoggles> Www.
[16:32] <ReggieUK> whyamIbanned, ctrl+f5 the page
[16:32] <ShaneHudson> Haha!!! Farnell is now on Facebook Ads.. xD
[16:32] <des2> Many people hollywood
[16:32] <mrdragons> Try the full url, http://www.raspberrypi.org
[16:32] <ShaneHudson> whyamIbanned: You need to go to www.raspberrypi.org
[16:33] <whyamIbanned> ShaneHudson: oh thank you ShaneHudson, adding www. worked
[16:33] <whyamIbanned> mrdragons: thank you as well, and ReggieUK
[16:33] <ReggieUK> np
[16:34] * JonSeals_ (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:34] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals_
[16:34] <mrdragons> Their server is all kinds of messed up. XD
[16:36] <ObliqueTroll> hopefully they'll start hosting
[16:36] * synapse (~synapse@c-76-109-62-10.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has left #raspberrypi
[16:36] <ObliqueTroll> oops
[16:36] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:36] * JonSeals_ is now known as JonSeals
[16:36] <ObliqueTroll> a beowulf cluster of raspis when mass production gets going
[16:37] * Magoggles (~androirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:37] <ObliqueTroll> +on
[16:37] <h0llywood1> des2 :: so why it asks me for the vat number
[16:37] <ObliqueTroll> bleh, on screen keybs are horrid
[16:38] <ReggieUK> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sUeGC-8dyk&feature=player_embedded
[16:38] <ReggieUK> sooo coooool
[16:39] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Magoggles
[16:39] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Davespice
[16:39] <DataSpree> h0llywood1: i bought one from export.farnell.com
[16:41] * oldtopman bought his already
[16:41] <oldtopman> Allied Electronics :#
[16:41] <tashbear> so daft punky
[16:41] <h0llywood1> yes but it.farnell.com ask me for the italian equivalent of the VAT number
[16:42] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:42] <ShaneHudson> h0llywood1: phone them?
[16:42] <h0llywood1> it's sunday :D
[16:42] <ShaneHudson> good point xD
[16:42] <ReggieUK> got a nice human feel to it too
[16:42] <DataSpree> Isnt italy in the EU so wouldn't you have to pay VAT?
[16:42] * codesnow (~snow@72.53.127.167) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:43] <h0llywood1> in italy the VAT is the 21%
[16:43] <ShaneHudson> I had to pay VAT in England
[16:43] <h0llywood1> in uk i think 20%
[16:43] <Magoggles> yikes!
[16:43] <ShaneHudson> yeah
[16:44] <ObliqueTroll> ReggieUK, heh, nice
[16:44] <h0llywood1> i chose Consumer in the link they send me
[16:44] <ShaneHudson> think I paid 29 pound for it
[16:44] <DataSpree> so is VAT normally paid like sales tax, or does everyone personally have a vat number or are vat numbers for exception cases like schools?
[16:44] <h0llywood1> vat number is usually for companies
[16:44] <ShaneHudson> VAT numbers are used for businesses... if you are an individual it is just added on when you buy something
[16:44] <h0llywood1> yep
[16:45] <DataSpree> so like US's state sales tax number for businesses
[16:45] <piofcube> You usually get a VAT number if your annual turnover exceeds a certain amount (as a company or charity)
[16:45] <Magoggles> man... my room would send an arachnophobe into a catatonic state
[16:45] <Magoggles> spiders and cobwebs all over the ceiling :P
[16:45] * DataSpree shudders
[16:46] <piofcube> Charities usually get a VAT number so they can reclaim the VAT
[16:46] <h0llywood1> the problem is that i don't have a VAT number, they charged me the VAT, and also ask me for vat number...
[16:47] <piofcube> You get charged vat whether or not you have a vat number... but to ask for a vat number is to ensure you are a company
[16:47] <h0llywood1> i read that farnell ship only to companies
[16:47] <piofcube> Farnell have a personal order system but I can't remember the link
[16:48] <piofcube> and IIRC that's country specific
[16:48] <DataSpree> many of the farnell branches ships to consumers but some of of the branches in different countries have different policies
[16:49] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[16:49] * koda (~vittorio@host106-71-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[16:49] <piofcube> I purchased our R-Pi though our Charity just to make sure we got it LOL... but most people don't have that option
[16:49] <piofcube> through**
[16:49] <Magoggles> luckily I had a business to use, even if I didnt need it
[16:50] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) has left #raspberrypi
[16:50] <DataSpree> Liz has said in the forums that she'd like to know if anyone in a particular country is having problems purchasing from RS or farnell. I'd suggest calling the company first in case there is just a mistake with the website then e-mail Liz or post on the forums and politely explain your situation and ask if there is anyway they can help if the local division of Farnell refused your business
[16:51] * decadance (~decadance@204.93.201.197) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:51] * PiBot sets mode +v decadance
[16:51] <piofcube> I had talked to the other Trustees to see if there was a way we could help those that needed to be a business but our legal advisors says that's not possible. :-(
[16:51] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:53] * CasperN (~casper@81-233-58-70-no71.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] * PiBot sets mode +v CasperN
[16:54] <ReggieUK> I didn't have to worry as my dad has a trade account at farnell
[16:54] <flaushy> hmm is there a mirror for the forum yet?
[16:54] <Magoggles> We are above the law! :P
[16:56] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:56] <Raedon5> well, there is a very simple solution...
[16:56] <Raedon5> you dont need to be VAT registered - you just need a VAT number.
[16:57] <des2> Why flaushy ?
[16:57] <piofcube> And you get a VAT number by registering with...
[16:57] <flaushy> des2: getting database errors on nearly all clicks, which kinda sucks when reading older threads
[16:57] <Raedon5> yeah, you so
[16:58] <Raedon5> *do
[16:58] <Raedon5> but you also get one on each receipt from a shop....
[16:58] <piofcube> Unless you use some other companies VAT number and if they check... not a good place to be in if they wanted to follow that through
[16:59] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:59] * PiBot sets mode +v paul_-
[16:59] <Raedon5> well, I guess when its online- its harder
[16:59] <Raedon5> otherwise you just engage the phone of the business
[17:00] * nxo (~nxo@gateway/tor-sasl/nxo) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:00] * PiBot sets mode +v nxo
[17:00] <Raedon5> I heard someone done it to a shopkeeper here that owned him money :)
[17:00] <Raedon5> *owed
[17:02] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:02] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[17:03] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:04] * cerberos (~cerberos@118.173.70.120.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[17:04] <Raedon5> It would be a risky idea and not worth it for the money involved- anyways, what grocery store needs to buy an rpi ?:P
[17:04] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@x1-6-00-22-75-b5-3e-92.k353.webspeed.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:05] <ShaneHudson> A bakers shop might neeed raspberry pi...
[17:05] <ShaneHudson> :p
[17:05] <Raedon5> hehe :)
[17:06] <h0llywood1> ok guys i just ordered rpi via export.farnell.com
[17:06] <h0llywood1> but they didn't say me how much was the VAT
[17:06] <h0llywood1> and the shipping...
[17:07] * tashbear (~pedro@unaffiliated/el-tash/x-7763973) has left #raspberrypi
[17:07] * swiley (~swiley@181.sub-75-192-7.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[17:09] <nxo> does any of you has experience with "linux from scratch" (www.linuxfromscratch.org)? I think that might be great for the rpi.
[17:09] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128247084.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:09] * PiBot sets mode +v lars_t_h
[17:10] <nxo> there is cross-compiled lfs as well. cross-lfs.org
[17:10] <ShaneHudson> I tried it a few years a go and completely failed lol. I just run Arch now, it is pretty close to bare minimum!
[17:10] <PaulFertser> So, is there a public discussion ML for the project?
[17:11] <h0llywood1> DataSpree :: did you manage to get shipping fees?
[17:11] <DataSpree> not that I know of. it would be nice if there was one
[17:11] <DataSpree> h0llywood1: no i did
[17:11] <DataSpree> didnt
[17:11] <h0llywood1> vat?
[17:12] <nxo> ShaneHudson, I like the educational aspect. how does linux work what ties it together. should be nice to play with for interested students
[17:12] <h0llywood1> it says Goods Total:
[17:12] <h0llywood1> ??24.55
[17:12] <h0llywood1> Delivery Charge: TBA
[17:12] <h0llywood1> Order Total:
[17:12] <h0llywood1> ??24.55
[17:13] <DataSpree> h0llywood1: i did not receive any information on what shipping fee would be charged. the day after i ordered i received a confirmation email saying my order had been processed and an invoice (PDF) saying when the estimated delivery date was
[17:14] <DataSpree> since the cost was 24.55 GBP which is ~$38 USD instead of $35. im hoping shipping is included :)
[17:15] <Tachyon`> more likely it's just exchange rate related theft
[17:15] <Tachyon`> and the shipping is on top
[17:15] <DataSpree> completely possible. either way ill just be happy to have a raspberry pi eventually
[17:17] <ShaneHudson> nxo: yeah I need to go through it again. Arch has taught me a lot, but I am sure that will teach more!
[17:17] <h0llywood1> just arrived the email that says: When stock is allocated to your order, we will send you a full order confirmation including prices, availability and expected delivery date.
[17:18] <ShaneHudson> nxo: also, I presume you know about Lions' commentary on Unix? Out of date but very interesting
[17:18] <h0llywood1> DataSpree
[17:19] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:19] * PiBot sets mode +v toxibuny
[17:19] <DataSpree> h0llywood1: ?
[17:20] <h0llywood1> just arrived the email that says: When stock is allocated to your order, we will send you a full order confirmation including prices, availability and expected delivery date.
[17:20] <h0llywood1> its the same email?
[17:20] <h0llywood1> or you received another one later?
[17:21] * swiley (~swiley@3.sub-75-243-53.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:21] * PiBot sets mode +v swiley
[17:21] <nxo> ShaneHudson, bit out of date, yes. ;) LFS may be more interesting to students. having the hardware and having build and tied together all by your self.
[17:22] * medik (~pl0x@host-95-199-15-151.mobileonline.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[17:22] <ShaneHudson> nxo: yeah. What kind of age range for students are you thinking?
[17:22] <ShaneHudson> Not that age has anything to do with anything mind you!
[17:23] <des2> That's what I tried to tell the cops
[17:23] <ShaneHudson> xD
[17:24] <nxo> 14, 16 maybe computer science in school. better than learning excel..
[17:24] <ShaneHudson> nxo: yeah defintely! I was about 15 too I think.. but I had no teacher or anything to help.. so if they have support it should work pretty well
[17:25] <ShaneHudson> possibly younger actually
[17:25] * whyamIbanned (5c628dff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.98.141.255) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[17:26] <mute> compiling 1.2.13 on slackware
[17:26] <DataSpree> First I got a Welcome to Farnell email on Wed 01:11 AM CST when I registered but was unable to order due to down website, then Your Farnell Order Acknowledgement - ##### email on Wed 09:36 AM CST when i was able to order. Then on Thursday at 07:32 AM CST I got an email subject of Urgen Order Information with a PDF which shows my order and an estimated delivery date but no mention of cost of anything. 10 minutes later at 7:43 I receiv
[17:26] <mute> mmm
[17:26] <DataSpree> h0llywood1: unless they change their system this is probably the order in which you will receive emails about your export.farnell.com order as well
[17:27] * Magoggles (~kvirc@c211-30-210-147.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:27] <h0llywood1> what did you receive 10 minute later?
[17:28] <h0llywood1> "10 minutes later at 7:43 I receiv...."
[17:28] <DataSpree> there were 2 emails with PDFs attached. The first one had no costs. The second one listed costs.
[17:28] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host183-116-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:28] <DataSpree> They were received 10 minutes apart
[17:28] <h0llywood1> oh and how much was the shipping?
[17:28] <h0llywood1> where do you live if i may ask
[17:28] <DataSpree> h0llywood1: shipping has never been mentioned in any email, invoice, attachment, etc
[17:28] <nxo> ShaneHudson, lets see where the RPIs are heading after educational release. I think lfs could be great for the intentions of the foundation. I'll mention it to some teacher friends of mine. ;)
[17:29] <DataSpree> h0llywood1: US
[17:29] <h0llywood1> oh ok, so only the 24.55??
[17:29] <DataSpree> right which is about $38 USD I think
[17:29] <h0llywood1> 29??? for me
[17:30] <h0llywood1> but the order in it.farnell.com was 7??? of VAT, 9??? of shipping and 27??? the board
[17:32] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:34] <convolution> nobody comes from italy?
[17:35] <h0llywood1> io
[17:35] <h0llywood1> convolution
[17:35] <convolution> hai preordinato la scheda?
[17:35] * [1]des2 (~des2@pool-96-232-73-163.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:35] * PiBot sets mode +v [1]des2
[17:35] <h0llywood1> convolution :: s?? ma non dal sito italiano.. mi chiede la partita iva
[17:36] <h0llywood1> convolution :: l'ho preordinata da export.farnell.com, arrivandoci selezionando "other" dal link dell'email
[17:36] <convolution> quale sarebbe il sito italiano?
[17:37] <h0llywood1> convolution :: quando ti ?? arrivata l'email con il link per il preorder, seleziona customer e poi invece di Italia, metti Other
[17:37] <haltdef> ...
[17:37] <ReggieUK> #pi-it?
[17:37] <haltdef> rudeness
[17:37] <IT_Sean> Huy, guys... want to keep it in english please?
[17:37] <IT_Sean> *hey
[17:37] <h0llywood1> ok sorry
[17:37] <ksx4system> ENGLISH PLEASE!
[17:38] <ksx4system> all in all nice to hear that somebody seen VAT+delivery costs
[17:38] <DDave> BAPE DE BOPPPII??
[17:38] * haltdef is holding tight for RS to do something
[17:38] <DDave> *family guy*
[17:38] <h0llywood1> 43??? total price for italy
[17:38] <convolution> IT_Sean, sorry
[17:38] <DDave> yep..same for germany
[17:38] <ShaneHudson> I need a good name by my wireless network and a system of names for my computers.. hmm
[17:38] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-44-177.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:38] * [1]des2 is now known as des2
[17:38] <ksx4system> to this moment I haven't received any e-mail from them other than order confirmation... and they took around 30pln (5-6eur) from my visa card
[17:39] <h0llywood1> DDave :: did they ask you for vat number?
[17:39] <DDave> h0llywood1: nope, just went straight to 20%
[17:39] <DDave> bastards.
[17:39] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:39] <DDave> I didnt order yet
[17:39] <DDave> 43? for a 29? board... wtf
[17:39] * medik (~pl0x@host-95-199-14-69.mobileonline.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:39] * PiBot sets mode +v medik
[17:40] <h0llywood1> DDave :: ok, i don't know if in germany they ask for vat number, but in italy they sell to companies only..
[17:40] <DDave> farnell or RS?
[17:40] <DDave> I checked farnell
[17:40] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] * PiBot sets mode +v toxibuny
[17:41] <DataSpree> h0llywood1: if you're italian, out of curiosity how tall are you?
[17:41] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-121-16.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] * PiBot sets mode +v rafal
[17:42] <h0llywood1> 1.80 why? xD
[17:42] <DDave> loooool
[17:42] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[17:43] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals
[17:43] <DataSpree> some of my ancestors (grandfather) are Italian and I'm short by Americans standards so I wondered if that came from those genes or not
[17:43] <h0llywood1> farnell btw, rs didn't send me any email yet
[17:43] <DDave> ok
[17:43] <DataSpree> I'm 1.65m so I guess I'm short by even Italian standards heh
[17:43] <h0llywood1> DataSpree :: lol, i don't think it depends on us
[17:43] <Thorn_> i'd say you're short by eastern standards.
[17:45] <ReggieUK> I'd say you're just obsessive over height and the randomness of genes
[17:47] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:47] <DataSpree> I dont think im obsessive over it. just curious. i like being this short. If I were tall, Im sure I'd like being tall too.
[17:48] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:48] * PiBot sets mode +v qptain_Nemo
[17:48] <dwery> h0llywood1: they ask in case you are a company.
[17:49] <h0llywood1> dwery :: in the link sent by email i selected Customer
[17:49] <dwery> DataSpree: try 23andme ;)
[17:49] <dwery> h0llywood1: but I guess their backend does not handle the selection properly ;)
[17:50] <ReggieUK> there'll be trouble if someone tries to handle my backend
[17:50] <dwery> :D
[17:50] <h0llywood1> dwery :: i'll call them tomorrow
[17:50] <des2> Next they'll be asking to see your assport.
[17:51] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:51] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[17:52] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-121-16.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[17:52] <nxo> DataSpree, there seem to be advantages in you italian genes as well: http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?q=1&reportId=3073 :P
[17:54] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:54] * PiBot sets mode +v awakefield
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[17:54] * PiBot sets mode +v rafal
[17:54] <DataSpree> nxo: interesting...
[17:54] * medik (~pl0x@host-95-199-14-69.mobileonline.telia.com) has left #raspberrypi
[17:56] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: oldtopman has left the house)
[17:56] * koda (~vittorio@host106-71-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:56] * PiBot sets mode +v koda
[17:56] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-121-16.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:57] * Vladdeh (~vlad@2001:470:1f09:72b:1234:5678:90ab:cdef) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:58] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[17:58] <mkopack> morning gang
[17:59] <mkopack> everyone have dreams of raspberry pi's dancing in their heads last night?
[17:59] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[18:00] <DataSpree> I was too sleepy to remember dreaming anything last night
[18:01] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[18:01] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-121-16.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:01] * PiBot sets mode +v rafal
[18:02] * JonSeals_ (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:02] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals_
[18:03] * garma (~NJ@cpc6-sotn11-2-0-cust198.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[18:04] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[18:04] * JonSeals_ is now known as JonSeals
[18:07] <mkopack> Anyone know what the debian image uses for a root password???
[18:07] <mkopack> (The RPi debian image)
[18:07] <jojo> none set; use sudo
[18:08] <chris_99> you could give it one with 'sudo passwd root' then
[18:08] <des2> 12345 ?
[18:08] <_av500_> hunter2
[18:09] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-121-16.free.aero2.net.pl) has left #raspberrypi
[18:09] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-121-16.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:09] * PiBot sets mode +v rafal
[18:10] <DataSpree> What is the earliest estimated delivery date anyone in this channel has seen from Farnell or RS?
[18:10] <haltdef> can you order from RS now?
[18:11] <des2> What country ?
[18:11] <hotwings> ok so the order i placed from the pre-registration link originally showed an april 3th order date.. now its been changed to may 14 >:(
[18:11] <mkopack> My original order to Newark came back as May 10, but yesterday it changed to April 4
[18:12] <des2> http://elinux.org/RPi_Buying_Guide#Ordering
[18:12] <mkopack> Eh, I think it's a case of them being all over the place and still trying to work things out
[18:12] <hotwings> so you orders swapped ship dates?!
[18:13] * toxibuny (~toxibuny@host86-181-35-79.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:13] <mkopack> No the original direct link one moved to April 4. The one from the email notification off of the express interest stayed at May 14
[18:13] <koda> i wonder if it's better to "express interest" at Farnell or to preorder at RS
[18:14] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:14] * PiBot sets mode +v awakefield
[18:14] <mkopack> I wonder if they're doing something to match "expressed interest" forms with direct orders to adjust shipping order ?
[18:14] <fragalot> koda: both?
[18:14] <fragalot> just because.
[18:14] <fragalot> koda: also - you CAN order at the dutch farnell
[18:14] <haltdef> I can't see an order page on RS yet
[18:14] <hotwings> from that link:
[18:14] <hotwings> Q: If interest was obviously so high...why only build 10,000 units?
[18:14] <hotwings>
[18:14] <hotwings> There is a big risk involved with building a large batch of units and selling them, and 10,000 units would take well over $250,000 in capital investment. For a charity, that is a massive ask in itself.
[18:14] <hotwings>
[18:15] <hotwings> that is certainly _not_ a massive task for a charity
[18:15] <hotwings> not even close
[18:15] <fragalot> hotwings: it is for a starting charity
[18:15] <hotwings> no, its not
[18:15] <fragalot> how is it not
[18:15] <fragalot> do you happen to have 250 grand lying around?
[18:15] <hotwings> is that a joke?
[18:15] <DataSpree> hotwings: this charity is just a couple people who mortgaged their house for the starter money
[18:15] <normod> it's not bill and melinda gates foundation
[18:16] <DataSpree> where do you think this magical money would come from?
[18:16] <ReggieUK> pixies
[18:16] <hotwings> $250,000 might be well over your head but that is peanuts in the investment world.. especially when you have corporate donations
[18:16] <ReggieUK> they've always got money
[18:16] <DataSpree> they dont take donations havent you been paying attention for the past 6 months?
[18:16] <DataSpree> they are not a business. they dont have venture capitalists
[18:16] * mute (mute@scottn.us) has left #raspberrypi
[18:17] <hotwings> listen... 1) a non-profit IS a business. 2) i am speaking about the statement itself, not rpi.
[18:17] <hotwings> that fact you you think $250k is a "massive task" to secure just shows how little you know about the subject.
[18:18] <DataSpree> hotwings: what charities have you founded?
[18:18] <fragalot> hotwings: that statement comes from rpi though - the subject here is rpi aswell
[18:18] <fragalot> it was hard for rpi to get that money
[18:18] <fragalot> thus, their statement holds true
[18:18] <hotwings> i dont own a charity but i do deal with partnerships, budgets, and fund raising
[18:19] <fragalot> hotwings: rpi didn't join in any partnerships other than the licenced manufacturing. they do not accept donations, I don't think they've looked for/accepted any investors either
[18:19] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:19] <hotwings> i dont care what theyve done.. its the statement itself that is false
[18:20] <hotwings> [09:16:45] <hotwings> listen... 1) a non-profit IS a business. 2) i am speaking about the statement itself, not rpi.
[18:20] <fragalot> the statement holds true for THEM.
[18:20] <fragalot> yes, 250k can be gotten if you go out looking for investors & donations etc
[18:20] <hotwings> why am i even arguing this with someone that doesnt even know a non-profit is a business?!.... waste of time
[18:20] <DataSpree> why would a venture capitalist invest in something that does not give him or her a return on their investment?
[18:20] <ReggieUK> free advertising
[18:21] <fragalot> DataSpree: I may or may not have some investors investing in some of my projects at a 0% interest rate >.>
[18:21] <hotwings> DataSpree - you clearly have no experience in investment so just stop
[18:21] * iMatttt (~imatttt@79-71-84-127.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:21] <fragalot> in exchange for what ReggieUK just mentioned
[18:21] <ReggieUK> like it will not harm broadcom having their name splashed all over the net with the pi
[18:21] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:21] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals
[18:21] <ReggieUK> hence getting a damn good deal on teh chips
[18:21] <hotwings> aside of that, are people really that naive to think you can get no return on investment in a non-profit? come on, do your homework before you say things like that.....
[18:21] <ReggieUK> then of course there is the goodwill side of the 'giving'
[18:22] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:22] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[18:22] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[18:22] * rpiloose (~luser@80.214.1.18) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:22] <ReggieUK> like broadcom getting their name splashed everywhere for helping education with regard to the pi when the boards reach their real target market instead of us enthusiasts
[18:23] <ReggieUK> like why did xmbc bother with a port? Gets them free advertising on a worthy project
[18:23] <hotwings> there are all kinds of reasons to pour money into a charity, non-profit, etc. YES you can have return, or you could be doing it for tax purposes, or you could be doing it for promotional reasons as ReggieUK pointed out, bla bla bla
[18:24] <DataSpree> hotwings: how could a non-profit charity in the UK legally give profit earned to an outside investor?
[18:24] <ReggieUK> because the return on the investment isn't monetary
[18:24] <hotwings> DataSpree - what do you think an investment is?
[18:25] <ReggieUK> + charitable giving is a tax write off isn't it?
[18:25] <hotwings> do you think a registered non-profit can not engage in a loan contract?
[18:25] <fragalot> ReggieUK: it is.
[18:25] <DaQatz> An "investment" in a non-profit is called a "Donation"
[18:25] <hotwings> no, its not
[18:25] <ReggieUK> so there are numerous ways to get a return on your donation that don't involve direct profit
[18:25] <DataSpree> no i dont think that. i think they cant give people a monetary return on their investment like a for-profit business can
[18:25] <hotwings> a donation is where theres no expectation of ANY return
[18:25] <fragalot> hotwings: I think we all agree that the statement itself may be wrong, but in this case, as it applies to rpi, who did not engage in any of these things because they decided not to,... etc you get where i'm going
[18:26] * garma (~NJ@cpc6-sotn11-2-0-cust198.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:26] * PiBot sets mode +v garma
[18:26] <DataSpree> the rpi foundation did not want to take donations for fear they would be labeled as vaporware they've said in the forums
[18:26] <hotwings> fragalot - you should be in agreement with the truth, not badly worded comments
[18:26] * nxo (~nxo@gateway/tor-sasl/nxo) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[18:26] * iBog (~iBog@206.188.142.161.ppp.northrock.bm) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:26] * PiBot sets mode +v iBog
[18:26] <iBog> hi
[18:27] <koda> http://thedoghousediaries.com/2750
[18:27] <fragalot> hotwings: I'm not sure what else to say to you that's worth saying really
[18:27] <DaQatz> Lo iBog
[18:27] <ReggieUK> anyway, the foundation self funded didn't they?
[18:27] <hotwings> DataSpree - i strongly recommend you do your homework before trying to discuss this further
[18:27] <fragalot> iBog: Hello.
[18:27] <fragalot> ReggieUK: it is.
[18:27] <des2> Considering it took 6 years that was a wise decision.
[18:27] <ReggieUK> so most of what we're talking is a moot point
[18:27] <fragalot> ReggieUK: it is.
[18:27] <hotwings> fragalot - dont say anything.. but please learn about these things before talking about them
[18:28] <piofcube> Under UK Charity laws there are many things that can happen but there are many things that can only happen if it is written into the Charity's constitution.
[18:28] <DataSpree> hotwings: are you always this rude or just when in this channel?
[18:28] <iBog> how is rasp powered?
[18:28] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[18:28] <ReggieUK> they got a deal on production with rs/farnell, so there is some profit somewhere but the foundation itself spends any profit it makes on the foundation
[18:28] <DaQatz> iBog, through a microusb plug
[18:28] <fragalot> hotwings: there are several investors investing in the projects I do at work. I'm just saying htat most of this doesn't apply to this project, and thus discussing it is moot.
[18:29] <iBog> DaQatz: what does my usb charger need to support?
[18:29] <fragalot> everyone here agrees with you IN GENERAL, but not in this particular case, which is what everyone's argument is.
[18:29] <piofcube> iBog: 1A 5v IIRC
[18:29] <iBog> thnks
[18:29] <ReggieUK> I think broadcom have done incredibly well out of this considering
[18:29] <des2> Minimum of 700mA
[18:30] <ReggieUK> they expected to front a reduced price for 10k units and now instantly after their first run expect that to be a 10 fold increase
[18:30] <piofcube> des2: yeah... I thought it was less but I prefer the headroom ;-)
[18:30] <DaQatz> iBog, 5v 0.7A for model B
[18:30] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:30] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals
[18:30] <des2> Yeah I would use a 1A charger .
[18:30] <iBog> thanks
[18:30] <fragalot> piofcube: well the current draw does go up if you plug a 500mA usb device in :P
[18:30] <ReggieUK> which will only increase as things go forward
[18:30] <DaQatz> Yes 1A is a good idea
[18:31] <piofcube> fragalot: LOL yeah true ;-)
[18:31] <fragalot> like a usb coffee heater
[18:31] <fragalot> :D
[18:31] <ReggieUK> I wonder what the take up will be like when the edu's get involved?
[18:31] <hotwings> DataSpree - its unfortunate you think that recommending people study a subject before talking about it, especially when theyre making bad assumptions, is being rude.
[18:31] <piofcube> seat warmer... keyboard vacuum and light.. oh and a fan also
[18:31] <fragalot> piofcube: and a usb plasma ball
[18:31] <fragalot> all via a non-powered hub
[18:31] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:31] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[18:31] <iBog> and I can use a usb wifi adaptor
[18:31] <fragalot> iBog: yes.
[18:32] <piofcube> fragalot: well that's so obvious I didn't think I needed to mention it ;-)
[18:32] <hotwings> fragalot - what your work does have nothing to do with anything
[18:32] <DaQatz> iBog, you just need to be sure it's supported by linux.
[18:32] <iBog> anyone using 3d printers to make a case?
[18:32] <fragalot> hotwings: so it being a non-profit organisation doesn't matter?
[18:32] <iBog> DaQatz: yep
[18:32] <chris_99> i might use lego to build a case
[18:32] <chris_99> like some else has doe
[18:32] <chris_99> *done
[18:32] <des2> iBog I think a lot of people will but are waiting for exact dimensions
[18:32] <piofcube> iBog: an IRC regular has one... can't remember who
[18:32] <hotwings> fragalot - doesnt matter regarding what exactly.. be specific
[18:33] <iBog> piofcube: cool. I'll google see what I can fine
[18:33] <fragalot> hotwings: it not having to do with anything.
[18:33] <Henchman21> get yourself some balsa wood
[18:33] <piofcube> I'm going to use bamboo
[18:33] <iBog> I wnna mount one in my boat
[18:33] <DaQatz> I was considering bamboo
[18:33] <fragalot> bamboo is rather annoying to work with though if you use raw bamboo sticks
[18:33] <piofcube> you can get the really wide stuff
[18:34] <fragalot> that's cheating.
[18:34] <fragalot> :D
[18:34] <piofcube> lol
[18:34] <Henchman21> tongue depressors
[18:34] <hotwings> fragalot - if you work for a non-profit, or not, it doesnt matter either way because not all businesses are run the same..
[18:34] <DaQatz> Those chopsticks you can get 20 of for a buck
[18:34] <Henchman21> and elmers glue
[18:34] <des2> Popsicle sticks
[18:34] <fragalot> hotwings: Exactly what i'm trying to say
[18:34] <DaQatz> Cut them up and join them
[18:34] <iBog> 3d printed case??? http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/1240-3D-Print-a-Case-for-the-Raspberry-Pi.html
[18:34] <piofcube> What about those little houses made from matchsticks and lollipops?... perhaps make a box from seashells ;-)
[18:34] <hotwings> fragalot - if you _do_ work for a non-profit then it really looks bad that you dont know non-profits are businesses
[18:34] <fragalot> hotwings: what we are saying is that YOU are right that the STATEMENT itself is wrong in general.
[18:35] <fragalot> hotwings: I never said they weren't?
[18:35] <fragalot> I give up - you're not paying attention.
[18:35] <hotwings> fragalot - youre correct.. it was DataSpree that doesnt know non-profits are businesses. sorry about that
[18:36] <mkopack> Ok, I think this was one of my best cooking exploits ever - a little hopping john stew, w/ground beef added, mixed with scrambled eggs, rolled up in a tortilla to make a breakfast burrito??? YUM
[18:36] <fragalot> mkopack: mao
[18:36] <fragalot> +l
[18:36] <hotwings> yum mkopack, sounds good
[18:36] * fragalot afk.
[18:37] <mkopack> I apparently need to go back to school on burrito rolling though??? Need to pay more attention next time I order @ Moes
[18:37] <des2> That's actually just a CG rendder though iBog
[18:37] <iBog> des2: agreed.
[18:37] <des2> Very pretty case though
[18:37] <hotwings> mkopack - the tortilla itself makes a world of difference. ive noticed that in my burrito making :)
[18:38] <mkopack> damn., that was good
[18:38] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-121-16.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:39] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-104-38.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:39] * PiBot sets mode +v rafal
[18:39] <mkopack> And only took like 2 minutes to make too!
[18:39] <piofcube> Stating that Charities are businesses is a simplification. There are many activities that a charity can not engage in unless it is stipulated in their Constitution... This is why many UK charities have a commercial subsiduary (if I can use that term) as well as their non-profit side.
[18:41] <hotwings> a business with restrictions is still a business. btw, all registered businesses have restrictions based on their type/class
[18:41] * baldand (~quassel@host-109-204-180-222.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:41] * PiBot sets mode +v baldand
[18:42] <mkopack> BBIAB...
[18:42] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[18:43] * TheDeadSerious (u2116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qysiqqcejtszebtt) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[18:45] <piofcube> Well... some business models require special licensing. A business can not give out loans without specific compliance and licensing, true
[18:46] * weechatter is now known as nils_2
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[18:48] <hotwings> all businesses have a type and classification. most can be expanded through licenses as you suggest, but only within a certain scope
[18:48] <piofcube> But for Charities, they must be able to show that their actions are in the best interest of the Charity and not the individuals of that Charity
[18:48] * iBog (~iBog@206.188.142.161.ppp.northrock.bm) has left #raspberrypi
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[18:49] <hotwings> as long as you arent blatantly milking your charity, youre fine
[18:49] <piofcube> A PLC must show that they are working in the interest of their shareholders
[18:50] <piofcube> Of course... that's in an ideal world and often doesn't work in the real world LOL
[18:50] <hotwings> any public company has that responsibility
[18:51] <piofcube> But... whether a Charity or for-profit... You have still got to show due diligence.
[18:52] * flaushy (~nooon@p579007AD.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:53] <hotwings> i have a friend who owns a non-profit. he & his team essentially teach people money management, how to reduce debt, etc etc... i will say this, he is _very_ well off thanks to the success of his non-profit, and he has been in full compliance since he started it. not a single warning, and 1 audit iirc
[18:53] * ragna_ (~ragna@e180050017.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:53] * PiBot sets mode +v ragna_
[18:54] <hotwings> i dunno why people think there isnt a way to make money from non-profits
[18:54] <piofcube> no-one can own a non-profit... Granted, it can be set-up in such a way that the Trustees will always be voted in.
[18:54] * flaushy (~nooon@p579007AD.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:54] * PiBot sets mode +v flaushy
[18:55] <hotwings> speaking literally, no, a person cant be listed as an owner
[18:56] <piofcube> The Charity Commision makes that very clear.
[18:56] <piofcube> Commission**
[18:57] * ragna (~ragna@e180064149.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:57] * Skorpy (~sevanteri@78.47.244.78) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:59] <piofcube> It's easy to think of a Charity as being a business that is managed and run on behalf of the public and for the public benefit.
[18:59] <ReggieUK> shit are you guys still discussing this?
[19:00] <hotwings> we're just chatting
[19:00] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Laogeodritt
[19:00] <piofcube> yeah.. just nicely chewing the fat so to speak LOL
[19:01] <hotwings> ReggieUK - wanna talk about rpi ship dates instead? :)
[19:01] <piofcube> As no-one is asking if it's out yet... we thought we'd will up the chat window with something ;-)
[19:01] <Thorn_> i wanna talk about the date of the first rpi spaceship
[19:01] <piofcube> we'd will? OMG... *gets new fingers* LOL
[19:01] <ReggieUK> not really I'm listening to the football
[19:02] * flaushy (~nooon@p579007AD.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:02] <piofcube> Thorn_: it would be a bit small?
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[19:02] * PiBot sets mode +v Skorpy
[19:03] <linlin> does the raspi have headers for a standard serial port connection?
[19:03] <IT_Sean> No.
[19:04] <IT_Sean> You could set up a serial connection via GPIO, however.
[19:04] <piofcube> you could use the GPIO or use USB to serial
[19:04] <linlin> ok
[19:04] <linlin> thinking it would make a good cheap terminal server for some serial devices i use for work
[19:05] <piofcube> You can get pre-built max232 boards very cheaply if you don't want to solder and stuff
[19:05] <linlin> usb>serial doesnt seem like the right route to go
[19:06] <DaQatz> Then use gpio
[19:06] <PaulFertser> Pi's 3.3V UART is exposed on the expansion board header.
[19:06] <PaulFertser> linlin: do you need hw flow control?
[19:06] <linlin> no
[19:06] <nelson> Oh, then there are multiple USB -> 3.3V UART cables you can buy.
[19:06] <piofcube> I think you'd need to convert TTL to serial? IIRC
[19:07] <nelson> You can get it to a SIP header, or 1/8th" jack, or bare wires.
[19:07] <DaQatz> All that bit bang'in fun!
[19:07] <linlin> just looking to attach these things to some cisco gear and ibm pseries gear with serial consoles
[19:08] <linlin> and then get access to those attached serial devices over ethernet
[19:08] <PaulFertser> nelson: does it sound right to use to attach a an additional 3.3V uart (usb converter) to a device which already has one (Pi)?
[19:08] <PaulFertser> linlin: cisco gear uses RS-232, right? So you can either get usb-rs232 or uart-rs232 converter attached.
[19:08] <nelson> PaulFertser: if you need it for a console, yes.
[19:08] <IT_Sean> Cisco gear uses RS232 over RJ45, typically
[19:09] <PaulFertser> nelson: why not connect uart-uart directly?
[19:09] <Thorn_> personally i prefer rs232 over hdmi
[19:09] <nelson> Thorn_: prevert!
[19:09] * swiley (~swiley@3.sub-75-243-53.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[19:10] <nelson> PaulFertser: I don't even think you can BUY a modern laptop or desktop with RS-232.
[19:10] <piofcube> This would be okay for the RPI right? http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/max232-rs232-serial-to-ttl-converter-board-pic-003602-008.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shcomp&utm_campaign=google_shopping_feed
[19:10] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[19:10] <linlin> true, have a hell of a time working on alot of rs232 gear :p
[19:10] * Netlynx (~jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:11] <nelson> piofcube: it's 5V.
[19:11] <PaulFertser> nelson: but we're talking about Pi which already has 3.3V UART.
[19:11] <nelson> linlin: I just gave up and bought a supply of usb->RS232 cables. When my chums run me out, I get more.
[19:11] <PaulFertser> If you do not need flow control, those lines are not routed out, unfortunately.
[19:12] * nelson glares at anything which needs flow control.
[19:12] <Thorn_> tcp/ip?
[19:12] <piofcube> nelson: Power it from the USB?
[19:12] <nelson> piofcube: yes, but you need 3.3V signals for the Raspi
[19:13] <piofcube> Oh.. 5v signal? gotcha
[19:13] <PaulFertser> piofcube: TTL 5V sounds wrong.
[19:13] <Thorn_> stick a resistor on the end
[19:14] <nelson> Thorn_: you're assuming that the MAX232 is 3v3 tolerant.
[19:14] * Raedon5 (~BlueBeep@109.77.192.136) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:14] <Thorn_> i'm not - i've absolutely no idea what i'm saying
[19:14] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:14] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[19:14] <nelson> (which it might be, but I'd check first.)
[19:14] * nelson sticks a resistor in Thorn_'s end.
[19:14] <piofcube> I have a couple of them and have used them to interface LCDs etc... I assumed that it was just using 5v for to drive the chip... I never noticed 5v on the signal out
[19:14] * Matthew is now known as Guest28441
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[19:15] <nelson> I'm a bit sensitive to this issue because I had a 5V RS-232 signal converter which was ... sometimes ... on a good day ... 3v3 tolerant.
[19:15] <piofcube> But I haven't worked with RS232 etc for a long time so will go with yous in here.
[19:16] <nplus> anyone here planning on (or know how to) using Java -> I2C on the pi?
[19:17] <piofcube> nplus: You'd have a much easier time doing that than trying for USB in java IMHO
[19:18] <nplus> From my research I currently have two options - write a JNI wrapper or potentially use java's SMBus library (not positive if it'll be sufficient)
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[19:18] <nplus> piofcube: I've got serial over USB work under java (for communicating with arduinos)
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[19:19] <h0llywood1> what do you think of this http://www.szedup.com/show.aspx?id=1680
[19:19] <h0llywood1> for adding wifi to the raspberry pi
[19:20] <piofcube> nplus there's telos which has a I2C java API... dunno if that's any use
[19:20] <nplus> that is sort of my 3rd possibility, ignore the I2C headers and use one of the AT chips to give me an easier I2C interface
[19:20] <h0llywood1> it's a realtek 8188CUS
[19:20] <fragalot> that chip should work afaik
[19:20] <nplus> piofcube: I'll take another look. From what I understand Telos sells usb or serial conversion boxes to I2C
[19:21] <piofcube> might be able to use some of it for general i2c instead of their own products
[19:21] <fragalot> h0llywood1: that chipset should work fine.
[19:21] * JonSeals_ (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:21] <fragalot> I wonder how well that thing works, considering the tiny antenna
[19:22] <h0llywood1> fragalot :: yep! but do you think its good the connectivity?
[19:22] <fragalot> h0llywood1: only one way to find out. :)
[19:22] <piofcube> nplus: Have you looked at jasmin for i2c? Again I'm not sure if that would help.
[19:22] <h0llywood1> yes for 9??? i could buy it
[19:22] <nplus> piofcube: doesn't sound familiar, but i'll take a look
[19:23] <piofcube> nplus at the very least it might lead you to some tried and tested stuff which works :-)
[19:24] * flaushy (~nooon@p579007AD.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:25] <danieldaniel> why is it so quiet here :(
[19:25] <nplus> piofcube: ok thanks for the suggestions - i don't believe telos is going to be much help, their Java API lets you talk to their external boxes over serial... but i'll look into jasmin
[19:25] <piofcube> I was looking at USB stuff in java... it wasn't usb to serial but it was a nightmare to do it with the free version of Java. It's supported in the paid version (when I looked into it anyway)
[19:25] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host121-120-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:25] * PiBot sets mode +v iccanobif
[19:26] <nplus> piofcube: I haven't looked into straight up USB yet... I struggled a bit getting RXTX (serial) going because I was testing Arduino -> Windows -> Debian (virtual box) and the timing was being thrown off from being virtualized and data wasn't being transmitted properly - woops
[19:27] <piofcube> nplus: I thought I'd better Google it now... LOL... try virtenio i2c clasees
[19:27] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:27] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[19:27] <piofcube> I'll get the link... Gogle on other PC
[19:28] <nplus> piofcube: I actually came across that last night...
[19:28] <zgreg> http://pastebin.com/NpqKvzy7 :)
[19:28] <piofcube> http://www.virtenio.com/assets/vm/javadoc/com/virtenio/driver/i2c/I2C.html
[19:28] <piofcube> Oh? LOL
[19:29] <nplus> piofcube: yeah, I'm not 100% what the deal is.. they have their own virtual machine and drivers for I2C
[19:29] <nplus> translated version: http://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.virtenio.com%2Fde%2F&act=url
[19:30] <zgreg> http://pastebin.com/NpqKvzy7 configures an atom n270/n450 to perform about similarly to a raspberry pi
[19:31] <zgreg> results in synthetic benchmarks approximately the same
[19:31] <nplus> piofcube: I might try sending them an email to see what the deal is..
[19:31] * nplus (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/simont) has left #raspberrypi
[19:31] <piofcube> http://www.virtenio.com/assets/vm/javadoc/overview-summary.html
[19:31] * nplus (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/simont) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:31] * PiBot sets mode +v nplus
[19:32] * MooseEh (~MooseEh@96.49.107.205) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:32] * PiBot sets mode +v MooseEh
[19:32] <zgreg> the atom still pretty much destroys the atom at FP, though
[19:32] <zgreg> *arm
[19:32] * peteyg (~pyg@cs-nx-02.csil.sfu.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:32] <piofcube> They have the native device driver also...
[19:33] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:33] <piofcube> not sure if that's native to their own products or native to java in general LOL
[19:34] <nplus> yeah, that's where things got fuzzy for me too
[19:35] <nplus> piofcube: "Proprietary software components from existing Java ??? applications for the desktop can be integrated without modification of the source data. With the usual development tools for Java"
[19:35] <nplus> looks like it might be for java in general
[19:35] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:35] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
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[19:36] * PiBot sets mode +v paul_-
[19:36] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Matttt
[19:36] <piofcube> searching oracle comes up with some results but the pages are 404 :-(
[19:37] * Guest28441 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:37] <piofcube> much more support for it in J2EE :-(
[19:38] <nplus> of course :/
[19:39] * rafal_ (~rafal@ip-78-30-110-219.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:40] * phoque (~nils@nrbg-4dbf197e.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[19:40] <hotwings> anyone actually trying to use rpi as a desktop?
[19:42] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-104-38.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:43] <steve_rox> no idea
[19:43] <steve_rox> it seems to gone all quiet
[19:43] <haltdef> those people will be disappointed I think
[19:44] <steve_rox> oh?
[19:44] <haltdef> at least unless an x11 driver shows up
[19:44] <steve_rox> whats a x11
[19:44] <haltdef> the gui won't be hardware accelerated without that
[19:44] <haltdef> which won't be pleasant
[19:44] <mjr> X11 is the windowing system underlying graphical user interfaces in Linux (usually)
[19:45] <steve_rox> oh im not familure with the mechanics of linux
[19:45] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:45] * PiBot sets mode +v skrock
[19:45] <mjr> the dumb framebuffer didn't seem excruciatingly bad in the videos
[19:45] <chris_99> how was the quake thing done then?
[19:46] <mjr> chris_99, opengl es is accelerated (with a proprietary driver blob)
[19:46] <steve_rox> im sure ppl will find a way around it
[19:46] <hotwings> wayland for rpi
[19:46] <chris_99> surely that was running under X, mjr
[19:46] <steve_rox> it is unfortinate that most the ppl that baught the PI are most likely not devlopers for it
[19:46] <mjr> chris_99, besides it, rather
[19:46] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] * PiBot sets mode +v Compy
[19:47] <chris_99> how do you know that steve_rox
[19:47] <chris_99> thats a big assumption
[19:48] <mjr> (though quite possibly not even that)
[19:48] <chris_99> if there is a proprietry driver, surely that would enable X to work with it mjr?
[19:48] <steve_rox> when a community is determined they usually find a way
[19:48] <mjr> It's not an X driver. It's an OpenGL ES driver that apparently doesn't know anything about X.
[19:48] <DaQatz> Wayland is as of yet stable.
[19:49] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:49] <steve_rox> brb eventually
[19:49] <mjr> You _can_ make an X server that uses OpenGL ES as the backend, of course, and people have pondered about it (even before the Pi, but no-one's bothered yet)
[19:49] <mjr> maybe someone will now, maybe not *shrug*
[19:49] <DaQatz> mjr, that makes MORE likely to work with wayland
[19:49] <chris_99> doesn't XGL use Open GL mjr
[19:49] <chris_99> or whatever that's called these days
[19:50] <mjr> Xgl is called "deprecated"
[19:50] <chris_99> ok well the replacement
[19:51] <piofcube> Does window managers that use compositing use OpenGL ES?
[19:51] <chris_99> AIGLX
[19:51] <mjr> I'm not sure if it used opengl for all rendering. Maybe it did. Would need a port to ES though.
[19:51] <chris_99> it did
[19:51] <mjr> AIGLX is a completely different matter.
[19:51] <chris_99> thats based on XGL
[19:51] <mjr> no, not really
[19:51] <chris_99> or its a similar thing then
[19:51] <DaQatz> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0NjU
[19:51] <mjr> similar enough to get compositing going...
[19:51] <DaQatz> Oh
[19:52] <DaQatz> xbmc + pi + wayland
[19:53] <mjr> Wayland is built around kms/dri afaik a bit. Maybe it's portable over the Pi proprietary driver with a decent amount of work, wouldn't know.
[19:53] <DaQatz> Not exactly
[19:53] <DaQatz> It's more build around opengl
[19:53] <DaQatz> And opengl does the DRI/KMS
[19:54] <zgreg> wayland is not in any way usable yet
[19:54] <DaQatz> zgreg, I tend to agree
[19:54] <mjr> I'll buy not using DRI directly, not KMS
[19:54] <zgreg> so it wouldn't be an interesting route to take at all
[19:55] <Lerc> Depends on what you mean by usable.
[19:55] <DaQatz> Lerc, It crashes and freezes a lot.
[19:55] <piofcube> Compiz is being removed from fedora... shame LOL
[19:55] <Lerc> You couldn't run a standard linux desktop under it. But you can still code for it.
[19:56] <DaQatz> Yes you can, under the assumption that it would soon stabilize I assume.
[19:57] <DaQatz> Wayland does look nice. Especially compared to X11. But as it as atm I will still to X11
[19:57] <DaQatz> tick to*
[19:57] <Lerc> I'll stick to it on my desktop. But The R-Pi is for crazy experiments.
[19:58] <DaQatz> Nods
[19:58] <DaQatz> Sd cards are cheap and easy to swap
[19:58] <DaQatz> So no reason not play, and test.
[19:58] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Ben64
[19:59] <DaQatz> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419765_319891591393059_241806149201604_866645_614247055_n.jpg
[20:00] <piofcube> anyone watch this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fouPJRLygNQ
[20:01] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[20:01] <piofcube> Though you wouldn't catch me powering up anything that's sitting on an anti-static bag LOL
[20:02] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:04] <Lerc> I wonder if that Boot to Gecko thing can support GLes without X.
[20:04] <nuil> nla
[20:05] <dwery> is there a place where drivers development (i2c, spi, ...) is being coordinated?
[20:08] * coruja (coruja@coruja.info) has left #raspberrypi
[20:09] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:09] <GabrialDestruir> Bah... ya know, redstone needs to attach to things more like a fence does or glass does .-.
[20:10] <danieldaniel> piofcube: How do people have them?
[20:10] <Lerc> Looks like Boot to Gecko assumes framebuffer GL ES 2.0. Might be workable without too much pain.
[20:10] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:10] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[20:10] <ukscone> hi all
[20:11] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:11] * crackm (~chatzilla@brln-4db86728.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:11] * PiBot sets mode +v crackm
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[20:12] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[20:12] * Ben64 (~Ben64@Ben64-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Algo
[20:13] <Algo> CJDNS-enabled Rasberry Pi units as meshnet nodes? Ethernet/USB vs router/custom firmware?
[20:13] <Algo> Tor Relay? Piratebox? Darknetplans anyone?
[20:14] <mrdragons> Oh, I plan to do a piratebox. ^_^
[20:15] <rm> what's CJDNS?
[20:15] <flaushy> algo i will do tor relay
[20:16] <flaushy> and it should run quite nicely, i expect 500 kbyte/s
[20:17] <Algo> rm: http://projectmeshnet.org/ https://wiki.projectmeshnet.org/CJDNS
[20:19] * paul_- (~paul@c122-106-170-224.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[20:20] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:21] <danieldaniel> lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOz9pQvgwVU
[20:21] <danieldaniel> Look at the top comment
[20:21] <danieldaniel> That was a dreadful??? video. You didn't look at the camera, you were clearly reading directly off a script, you stuttered and stumbled over your words, it doesn't come with the software because you have to buy the SD and install the OS separately, you didn't even mention the foundation (the fact that it's a charity) or its aims. Really poor, just like the state of your website this morning.
[20:22] <mrdragons> People are too full of themselves.
[20:23] <danieldaniel> farnell is stupid
[20:23] <danieldaniel> They didn't cancel one of my orders
[20:23] <danieldaniel> So I still can get two! :D
[20:23] <danieldaniel> They said that they were going to, but they didn't
[20:23] <flaushy> danieldaniel: as long as you dont order the chip as i did at 6:02 :/
[20:23] <mrdragons> project meshnet looks pretty cool too, I might set up a rpi as a node for it. :D
[20:24] <danieldaniel> flaushy: what?
[20:24] <flaushy> you can order the full board, or just order the chipset and stare at it...
[20:24] <flaushy> i chose second thx to being tired :/
[20:24] <ShaneHudson> the chip was an accident apparently
[20:25] <ShaneHudson> the suppliers are not allowed to sell it, as obviously the foundation have a good deal on it
[20:25] <flaushy> oh well :) as long as it aint a washing machine everything is fine ^^
[20:25] <ShaneHudson> lol
[20:25] <danieldaniel> flaushy: Im confused
[20:25] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:25] <danieldaniel> flaushy: You can order the chip?
[20:26] <hotwings> i wonder what the cost of the rpi with case will be
[20:26] <flaushy> danieldaniel: at farnell yes... it is indexed
[20:26] <danieldaniel> what was the chip part number?
[20:26] * koaschten (~koaschten@p5B3A7AF1.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:26] * PiBot sets mode +v koaschten
[20:26] <DaQatz> https://github.com/rails/rails/commit/b83965785db1eec019edf1fc272b1aa393e6dc57
[20:27] * jbb (~yeeb@184.105.219.149) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:27] <Algo> mrdragons: That commenter is too full of himself? How so?
[20:27] <Aethaeryn> mrdragons: RPI seems a bit... slow for something like a "meshnet"
[20:27] <flaushy> 2081347
[20:27] <Aethaeryn> You're not going to get speeds you're used to.
[20:27] <danieldaniel> flaushy: Ok, good
[20:27] <flaushy> Aethaeryn: it is fine i think
[20:28] * mrdragons (~lucas@c-98-204-135-73.hsd1.md.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:29] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[20:29] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Compy
[20:29] <danieldaniel> Oh, and I might be getting 3
[20:30] * ksaua (~saua@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:30] <flaushy> i preordered 3 later
[20:30] <danieldaniel> I mean 2 from farnell, and 1 from rs
[20:31] * mrdragons (~lucas@c-98-204-135-73.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:31] * PiBot sets mode +v mrdragons
[20:31] <danieldaniel> the rs one if they contact me
[20:31] * ksaua (~saua@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:31] * PiBot sets mode +v ksaua
[20:31] <flaushy> didnt make sense to only order one at 8:20
[20:31] <DaQatz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gky68aE578 Mullins looks like he wants to smack her when she takes credit for the Rpi's name.
[20:36] * kyzz (18a6516d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.166.81.109) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:36] * PiBot sets mode +v kyzz
[20:36] <kyzz> sup everyone?
[20:36] <danieldaniel> kyzz: ohaider
[20:36] <kyzz> how are you danieldaniel?
[20:36] <danieldaniel> Good, I got 2 rpis!
[20:37] <kyzz> you ALREADY got them?
[20:37] <danieldaniel> no
[20:37] <danieldaniel> but i ordered them
[20:37] <kyzz> was gonna say lol
[20:37] <kyzz> whens yous ship date/
[20:37] <danieldaniel> sometime next month
[20:37] <kyzz> same
[20:37] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:37] <kyzz> i only bought one
[20:37] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Cheery
[20:37] <danieldaniel> They were supposed to cancel one of mine
[20:37] <danieldaniel> but they didnt! :D
[20:37] <danieldaniel> didn't*
[20:38] <kyzz> heh :P
[20:38] <kyzz> I still have no idea what to do with mine
[20:39] <rob_> it's a pretty rack name actually
[20:39] * MooseEh (~MooseEh@96.49.107.205) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:39] <rob_> s/rack/wack
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[20:42] <Cheery> kyzz: osdeving perhaps?
[20:43] <kyzz> Cheery: I 'm not sure what that is I'm a noob here :x
[20:43] * rafal_ (~rafal@ip-78-30-110-219.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:43] <Cheery> kyzz: an act of programming your own operating system.
[20:44] <kyzz> ahhhh that makes sense
[20:44] <kyzz> Didn't read it correctly , but itsn't that kinda indepth
[20:44] <Cheery> I used commonly used letter combination
[20:45] <kyzz> Well i misread sorry
[20:45] <kyzz> I wouldn't know where to start with that though
[20:46] <Cheery> community
[20:46] <Cheery> there's existing ones.. but I think raspberry pi could have it's own.
[20:46] <kyzz> the RPi community?
[20:46] <Cheery> well. subcommity. one specified for operating system development. :)
[20:47] <kyzz> I think most are planning on running Fedora/Debian
[20:47] <flaushy> a own OS?
[20:47] <kyzz> Yeah RPIi's own I think
[20:48] <flaushy> hmm lots of work
[20:48] <kyzz> Seems like it , but probably worth it imo
[20:48] <Cheery> doesn't need to limit to RPI.. but RPI is a good board in sense that you'll get a consistent platform.
[20:49] <flaushy> you could join in hurd ^^
[20:49] <Cheery> that gives in at driver development.
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[20:49] * PiBot sets mode +v stefanrvo
[20:49] <flaushy> or go with l4 and the bsds :)
[20:49] <Cheery> as well as it gives you common ways to do same things in hardware.
[20:49] * dormant (~dormant@d54C2D23B.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[20:50] <flaushy> well i think documentation will be one of the hardest parts
[20:51] <Cheery> I sort of dream from time when people understand what value there is in having valid datasheets of what you own.
[20:51] <mjr> there's little actual reason to go for new os development on the pi, especially with the gpu situation
[20:51] <fragalot> What i'm currently looking for could be something neat for the rpi too
[20:51] <fragalot> mate of mine has an inspection camera that acts as a usb webcam
[20:51] <kyzz> fragalot: What are you looking for?
[20:51] <fragalot> but he's tired of lugging his laptop along every day
[20:51] <ReggieUK> mjr, it's not like linux needs another distro :D
[20:51] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-103-199.as43234.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] * PiBot sets mode +v freddow
[20:51] <fragalot> so the rpi with a small display could possibly fix this
[20:52] <ReggieUK> how many times has that wheel been reinvented?
[20:52] <fragalot> ReggieUK: not cheaply enough yet :P
[20:52] <Cheery> ReggieUK: don't take on that. :) we both know wheel itself has been invented many times over.
[20:52] <Cheery> the point is in making something that attempts to be better than existing things.
[20:53] <ReggieUK> my point is what's the point of yet another flavour of linux specifically targetted at the pi?
[20:54] <Cheery> I don't think there's merits in having monoculture distributions or use raspberry as an excuse for supporting only one platform.
[20:54] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) Quit (Excess Flood)
[20:54] <flaushy> ReggieUK: depending on some specialities it could be a good basis for a modular system
[20:54] * Vladdeh (~vlad@2001:470:1f09:72b:1234:5678:90ab:cdef) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:54] <flaushy> but you can do that on a package level as well
[20:54] <ReggieUK> right and isn't that what linux is?
[20:54] <ReggieUK> make menuconfig, tick the crap you want, untick the crap you don't want?
[20:55] <Cheery> I think I want to see some better package management on a self-compiled linux distribution. :)
[20:55] <fragalot> Cheery: gentoo's portage?
[20:55] <flaushy> you know stuff like vinux :) a full system that is usable. I can see the nice part of it
[20:55] <Cheery> fragalot: well gentoo could work yes.
[20:55] <fragalot> Cheery: if it takes too long to compile - cross-compile it with a faster box
[20:56] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[21:00] <Cheery> mjr: the gpu situation is that you have a linux binary?
[21:00] <Cheery> mjr: couldn't that be solved with requesting linux-independent binary?
[21:00] <Cheery> because the datasheet was available already.. I guess that'd be an option too.
[21:02] <Cheery> I do think the GPU binaries are very unproductive way to go overall.
[21:02] <Dagger3> you assume that the datasheet includes anything about the GPU... which it doesn't
[21:02] <Cheery> but some idiot thought they can be used for reverse engineering architecture.
[21:03] <Cheery> Dagger3: I don't.. I assume that broadcom would pass along a non-linux binary :)
[21:03] <Cheery> just so that it could get competitive edge over others.
[21:04] * roman3x_ (~roman3x@bband-dyn50.178-40-176.t-com.sk) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:05] <Cheery> after all.. freedom on platform is worth less if it's restricted freedom.
[21:05] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
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[21:08] <Cheery> mjr: even if they won't release them.. they're still just single platform with 2 million users on it.
[21:08] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:08] * lennard (lennard@2001:610:1908:8004:216:3eff:fe16:8138) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:09] <Cheery> mjr: such volumes mean that you may have enough pressure on it that people actually reverse the gpu drivers if they don't get it otherwise.
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[21:09] <_av500_> there are sgx units in many millions iphones and android phones
[21:09] <mjr> no
[21:09] <_av500_> yet there is no open driver
[21:10] * lennard (lennard@2001:610:1908:8004:216:3eff:fe16:8138) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:10] * PiBot sets mode +v lennard
[21:10] <Cheery> _av500_: you aren't supposed to hack and tickle around much in android or iphone
[21:10] <_av500_> supposed?
[21:10] <Cheery> what's the difference is that RPi is designed as a learning device.
[21:10] <Cheery> many people will buy it for such purposes
[21:11] <mjr> not by broadcom (even though some employees may be involved)
[21:11] <Cheery> not by broadcom perhaps.. but by the raspberry foundation.
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[21:14] <peepsalot> howdy
[21:15] <peepsalot> i looked at some pictures and models, and it looked like there are no through holes for mounting the pcb. is that true?
[21:15] <Cheery> yes
[21:15] <peepsalot> :-/
[21:15] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[21:15] <_av500_> hot glue ....
[21:15] <Cheery> for many people that is an annoyance yes.
[21:16] <Cheery> I think it's solved by a fitting mount though.
[21:16] <Cheery> it's not like you couldn't edge mount it or something. :)
[21:17] <_av500_> or glue 4 standoffs to the bottom
[21:17] <Cheery> I don't promote that as it goes over contacts.
[21:18] <Cheery> I'd like some standard way to mount it though. :)
[21:18] <Cheery> would make it possible to build 'upgradeable' mounts.
[21:19] <hamitron> just hang it by ethernet cable? ;)
[21:19] <Cheery> lulz.
[21:19] <fragalot> Cheery: pcb edge mounting
[21:19] <fragalot> have the edges slide into slots to hold it, or clips that clamp it
[21:19] <_av500_> "mount" it on a velvet pillow
[21:19] * hamitron sighs at _av500_
[21:19] <hamitron> ;/
[21:19] <mjr> "mounting" it on a velvet pillow sounds dirty
[21:20] <piofcube> Or route a channel down the sides of your case perhaps... so it can slide in (if the ports allow it).
[21:20] <Cheery> piofcube: no. ports are positioned badly for that
[21:20] <Cheery> the edge mounting seems only reasonable way to do it..
[21:21] <h0llywood1> i see 2 holes for screw on the pcb
[21:21] <Cheery> not enough.. you need 3
[21:21] <piofcube> You could have a lip around the inside of your case which the R-Pi can sit on... then have flanges or some other way to prevent it lifting up
[21:21] <fragalot> Cheery: there's nothing on the bottom of the pcb is there - so you COULD slide it into rails like piofcube suggests and then screw the sides of the box on later to cover the slots
[21:22] <fragalot> h0llywood1: are those 2 holes actually for screw mounting or are they part of the sd card slot footprint?
[21:22] <Cheery> fragalot: true?
[21:22] <h0llywood1> http://hightech.blogosfere.it/800px-Raspberry_Pi_Beta_Board.jpg
[21:22] <h0llywood1> that 2 holes on the left
[21:23] <Cheery> fragalot: from the looks of it I thought the slots were in way for edge rail. :)
[21:23] <h0llywood1> i don't think its so heavy
[21:23] <fragalot> Cheery: looks like a plausible option to me really :) -- edge clamping works regardless anyway
[21:23] <fragalot> h0llywood1: the connected bits like cables are though
[21:24] <Cheery> it may be there's a small place in there where you can put it yes..
[21:25] <Cheery> I guess the mount could be bit like those things that keep battery lids closed.
[21:25] <fragalot> Cheery: looks like there are small tabs provided even... that or they're the tabs from the pcb manufacturing process :P
[21:25] <Cheery> you slide the card in and it snaps .
[21:25] <fragalot> Cheery: that's what I mean
[21:26] <Cheery> do you have insider info about this? ^^
[21:26] <fragalot> I do not
[21:26] <Cheery> didn't notice the small tabs lol.
[21:26] <piofcube> If you weren't using the GPIO etc, you could hot glue a couple of headers into the case and mount the r-pi upside down
[21:26] <fragalot> and it won't be for months that I will even have hands-on info
[21:26] <fragalot> lol
[21:26] <fragalot> piofcube: hot glue >.<
[21:27] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:27] <fragalot> -- if you ARE using the gpio pins, there are extra high header pins you could use
[21:27] <fragalot> but still, that's only holding it in place in one corner, while the heavy connectors are on the other side
[21:27] <Cheery> you can make two rails of sort that have tabholes in them.
[21:27] <Cheery> then put something to press the card to the place from upwards.
[21:27] <fragalot> Cheery: i'd just clamp it down on the sides really :P
[21:28] <fragalot> hang on i'll sketch out an example of a method I use to mill PCB's
[21:28] <Cheery> maybe it's better even..
[21:28] <hamitron> be brave and hold it to the case with magnets
[21:28] <fragalot> hamitron: lmao.
[21:28] * ObliqueTroll (~n800@85.211.125.169) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:28] <fragalot> Cheery: it's easier for sure
[21:28] <_av500_> use gravity
[21:29] <hamitron> bah, gravity beats all :/
[21:29] <Cheery> PCB of this size is very rigid.
[21:29] * Mookman288 (~Mookman28@c-68-41-44-138.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Mookman288
[21:29] <hamitron> so is there 2 holes?
[21:29] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@ip6-27-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:30] <fragalot> Cheery: <.< I don't have a mouse & touchpad + paint == ugh
[21:30] <fragalot> :P
[21:30] <h0llywood1> what are those tp1 and tp2 holes?
[21:30] <_av500_> tp = test point
[21:31] <_av500_> look like normal vias to me
[21:31] <hamitron> bbl
[21:31] * Mookman288 (~Mookman28@c-68-41-44-138.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[21:31] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[21:31] <_av500_> but there are 2 holes next to the sata connector
[21:32] * Mookman288 (~Mookman28@c-68-41-44-138.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:32] <Cheery> just note the parts that you use for mounting need to be nonconductive
[21:33] <_av500_> plastice screws
[21:33] <_av500_> -e
[21:33] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:33] <_av500_> or plastic standoffs
[21:33] <h0llywood1> or normal screws on plexiglass
[21:33] <_av500_> yep
[21:33] <fragalot> Cheery: uploading
[21:33] <fragalot> Cheery: http://ompldr.org/vY3htOA/mount.png
[21:34] * Binman_ (522192c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.33.146.201) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Binman_
[21:34] <fragalot> that's the easiest way I can think of for a DIY thing if you dont' have the little springy hook tab things to snap it in place.
[21:34] <jamesglanville> do you think there will be a market for 3d printed cases on ebay? I could make them for probably about ??2 in plastic, then hopefully sell for ??10ish?
[21:34] <Binman_> hi everyone i was just wondering if anyone here can help me set up the raspberry pi's software to run on my pc
[21:34] <fragalot> jamesglanville: sure
[21:35] <fragalot> jamesglanville: at the moment there are some great designs on shapeways
[21:35] <Mookman288> I definitely want something unique for a case, I'm thinking cyberpunk inspired.
[21:35] <h0llywood1> i'd like to mount it on a plexiglass sheet
[21:35] <ReggieUK> but ??10 is a bit much imho
[21:35] <jamesglanville> fragalot: ah I'll take a look, I can probably undercut shapeways significantly
[21:35] <h0llywood1> with another plexiglass sheet on the top
[21:35] <jamesglanville> ReggieUK: yeah I wondered about that, but not really worth it otherwise
[21:35] <fragalot> h0llywood1: you could easilly do it in plexi, even the mount should be easy to do
[21:35] <h0llywood1> like a sandwich
[21:35] <fragalot> lemme make a cross section of how i'd do that :P
[21:36] <h0llywood1> yep i know, easy and minimal
[21:36] <Binman_> Wont they release their own case with the educational release?
[21:36] <ReggieUK> so doubling your money doesn't seem worth it?
[21:36] <jamesglanville> Binman_: different processor arch, you couldn't use the same filesystem, so it'd basically be just installing linux
[21:36] <Binman_> and they're goanna make it really cheap
[21:37] * Bart (~dodi@d54C40E15.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Bart
[21:37] <jamesglanville> ReggieUK: not with the time it'd take and the oppertunity cost of not selling other 3d printed things, I realise it might just not be something worth doing though
[21:37] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[21:37] <Binman_> james is there any way i can run it under VMbox?
[21:37] * philh (~phil@cpc1-oxfd13-0-0-cust605.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:37] <_av500_> qemu maybe
[21:37] <Binman_> sorry dont know how to make the text read
[21:37] <Cheery> one funny thing about the model B
[21:37] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:37] <jamesglanville> Binman_: I don't know how good arm support is, I think you would have more luck with qemu
[21:37] <Cheery> the ethernet slot takes good 10% of the board area :)
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[21:38] * PiBot sets mode +v smw
[21:38] <ReggieUK> I guess you haven't quite got your costs worked out then? As time is obviously money to you too :)
[21:38] <Binman_> ok i was just wondering because i thought a lot of people here may have already done it while they're waiting for the real thing
[21:39] <jamesglanville> ReggieUK: poor student so time is very little money it's just I only have one printer so printer time is valuable
[21:39] <Cheery> jamesglanville: if I can get full printed custom case from you.. I'd gladly buy one. :)
[21:39] <Cheery> jamesglanville: though it requires that I'll get the actual board first on my hands. -._.-
[21:39] <fragalot> h0llywood1: http://ompldr.org/vY3htZA/mount2.png would be one way of doing it - you could use the top sheet as the clamp too
[21:39] <fragalot> :P
[21:39] <jamesglanville> I'll have a think and post here in a few days when i've worked out costs, yeah I want mine tooooo
[21:39] <Binman_> about these cases, arent they goanna release their own?
[21:40] <fragalot> Binman_: eventually
[21:40] <fragalot> as for the 3D printed cases - simply make 'm so they snap in place
[21:40] <Binman_> and they're going to be really cheap beause they're not out to make a profit
[21:40] <Binman_> which i assume you are :P
[21:40] * rafal_ (~rafal@ip-78-30-108-34.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:40] * PiBot sets mode +v rafal_
[21:40] <Cheery> ??10 might be just enough that I might want to pay from such job anyway. :)
[21:41] <fragalot> Binman_: if you use ??2 of materials, spend the time to make it, and then sell it, you're still losing money by selling it for ??10
[21:41] <fragalot> time is money :P
[21:41] <Cheery> well a printing machine is doing that work.
[21:41] <Binman_> well i don't really have any knowledge in this area at all so forive me :)
[21:41] <Cheery> but a work of well-working commercial printer is valuable
[21:42] * ObliqueTroll (~n800@cpc1-oxfd13-0-0-cust605.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:42] * PiBot sets mode +v baldand_
[21:42] <jamesglanville> it's a reprap i made, but quality is good
[21:42] * baldand (~quassel@host-109-204-180-222.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:42] * baldand_ is now known as baldand
[21:42] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-103-199.as43234.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:42] * baldand (~quassel@host-109-204-180-222.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:42] <fragalot> jamesglanville: how strong are the things made by a reprap btw?
[21:42] <Cheery> jamesglanville: can you post an example model somewhere so we can see how precise models it can do?
[21:42] <fragalot> i'm not sure if I trust the joins between layers
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[21:42] * PiBot sets mode +v baldand
[21:43] <Cheery> well another requirement is that they don't break into hands.. :D
[21:43] <Cheery> I've seen couple 3d printed designs that are.. brittle
[21:43] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-110-238.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:43] <jamesglanville> fragalot: difficult to say, probably half as strong as solid plastic at a guess? enough to make working bottle openers and stuff
[21:43] <Cheery> ones from commercial printers
[21:43] <jamesglanville> http://i.imgur.com/LSpfo.jpg
[21:44] <fragalot> jamesglanville: Cool.
[21:44] <jamesglanville> though that was before several quality improvements
[21:44] <fragalot> that's pretty good for a diy
[21:44] <Cheery> how long did it take on that model?
[21:44] <jamesglanville> commercial printers are often pretty weak, since quality is their main concern
[21:44] <jamesglanville> Cheery: two hours maybe? nowadays would be less than an hour because i've sped it up
[21:45] <fragalot> friend of mine sells 3D printers on the side, decent quality & very strong parts in ABS+
[21:45] <Cheery> and the quality is good as well?
[21:45] <fragalot> I think it's around 2000 euro for a desktop model
[21:45] <Cheery> jamesglanville: how much does such system cost that you have?
[21:45] <jamesglanville> cost me ??150 in total, but that was scavenging loads of parts, from new would be probably ??400+
[21:45] <Cheery> jamesglanville: I think if it's feasible and the quality & source material price is good.. I think I might consider.
[21:46] <jamesglanville> take a look in #reprap or look up a reprap prusa
[21:46] <Cheery> I've heard reprap can self-produce
[21:46] <fragalot> Cheery: partially
[21:46] <fragalot> just like my cnc machine can partially reproduce
[21:46] <jamesglanville> yeah all the plastic parts, but it's the motors+electronics that cost the most
[21:46] <fragalot> jamesglanville: I still have a set of steppers & stepper drives laying around from my first DIY cnc mill that I don't use, lol
[21:47] <fragalot> collecting dust under my bed :/
[21:47] <Cheery> jamesglanville: as long as it's all clear where to get what.. It's okay.
[21:47] <fragalot> jamesglanville: how much would you charge for the plastic bits of a reprap?
[21:47] <jamesglanville> I sell them for ??65 on ebay
[21:47] <The_Ball> WTF! http://raspberrypi.org/ -> You Are Banned.
[21:47] <Cheery> The_Ball: clear your cache
[21:47] <fragalot> lmao i'm banned too
[21:47] <mrdragons> Put www. before the domain.
[21:47] <nplus> http://www.raspberrypi.org/
[21:48] <fragalot> someone is being very agressive with the filters, lol
[21:48] <The_Ball> ah, + www. is fine
[21:48] <Mookman288> Does digikey sell non-touch ~6" LCDs? I'm having trouble even getting to the touch ones.
[21:48] <fragalot> jamesglanville: where do you live?
[21:48] <Mookman288> I wonder if it would be cheaper to buy a small HDTV
[21:48] <fragalot> Mookman288: probably.
[21:48] <jamesglanville> fragalot: cambridge, uk, if you're interested i'll do ??60 paypal without ebay
[21:48] <Mookman288> fragalot: it might be easier to find one with an HDMI controller.
[21:49] <fragalot> jamesglanville: I may take you up on that in a few months, but not now
[21:49] * flaushy (~nooon@p579007AD.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:49] <fragalot> jamesglanville: That said I could just mount an extruder on my mill & be done with it, lol
[21:50] <The_Ball> anybody have any idea how many real (back)-orders rs and farnell have received?
[21:50] <jamesglanville> it's been done, the main problem tends to be speed, you want to have axes going at >10cm/s to get fast prints
[21:50] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[21:50] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:50] * PiBot sets mode +v Compy
[21:51] <fragalot> jamesglanville: yeah mine's limited to 13mm/s
[21:51] <fragalot> :<
[21:51] <Cheery> jamesglanville: I'll try remember you when I want a case for RPi. :)
[21:52] <Cheery> oh and I'll try remember the reprap thing as well.
[21:52] <Mookman288> I have a laptop LCD, but it would be practically impossible for me to convert it to connect to the RPi
[21:52] <fragalot> Mookman288: what about the DSi connector on the rpi?
[21:52] <The_Ball> jamesglanville, what sort of extruder supports >10cm/s speeds?
[21:53] <jamesglanville> The_Ball: I use the standard prusa extruder, along with parcans hot end
[21:53] <fragalot> jamesglanville: when i was a kid i once made a 3D printer that used chocolate using lego & knex
[21:53] <fragalot> lol
[21:53] <fragalot> it was rubbish but it tasted nice.
[21:53] <fragalot> (this was from before I found out about reprap & makerbot etc) ... I don't think they existed yet
[21:53] <Mookman288> fragalot: I wouldn't know where to begin.
[21:53] <jamesglanville> nice, I want a chocolate extruder but it's a real pain to get a good extruder working
[21:54] * skilz (~skilz@unaffiliated/skilz) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:54] <fragalot> Mookman288: me neither - don't have enough info.
[21:54] * Binman_ (522192c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.33.146.201) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[21:54] * PiBot sets mode +v asherkin
[21:54] <The_Ball> jamesglanville, ah ok
[21:54] <Mookman288> fragalot: I don't think I could salvage any of the controllers from my laptops, so I wouldn't expect them to work even if I could get them connected.
[21:54] <fragalot> jamesglanville: it is, which is why the one I made worked with air pressure... henc eit looking like crap.
[21:54] <The_Ball> Is there a vm one can fire up the rpi distro in?
[21:55] <Mookman288> fragalot: And the price for a 6" LCD is just not anywhere near the cost acceptable for a RPi project.
[21:55] <fragalot> jamesglanville: it was essentially a small upside down cone, top closed off with a lid, small tube inserted, pressure by blowing into the tube.. chocolate streams out the bottom
[21:55] <_av500_> The_Ball: qemu maybe
[21:55] <fragalot> Mookman288: true, true :P
[21:55] <Mookman288> fragalot: For like a character-screen, the $5-$10 ones seem fine; would be good for just console.
[21:55] <Mookman288> I might just do that for now
[21:56] <jamesglanville> fragalot: ah cool, I've been wondering about some sort of insulated peristaltic pump, but haven't thought very much about it
[21:56] <The_Ball> _av500_, yeah I've got kvm/qemu running, but I meant is there an official virtual image to fire up?
[21:56] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Quit: .)
[21:56] <The_Ball> _av500_, this looks something like it http://russelldavis.org/2012/01/20/new-raspberry-pi-development-vm-v0-2/
[21:57] <_av500_> sems so
[21:57] <_av500_> seems
[21:57] <Mookman288> I have 4 AA's ready and waiting. I need to hack apart a microusb cord still though.
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[21:58] * PiBot sets mode +v qptain_Nemo
[21:59] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:59] <Mookman288> And maybe solar power, wall power and AA's regulated by an ONONON switch
[22:01] <kyzz> lol
[22:05] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[22:07] * PiBot sets mode +v flaushy
[22:07] * pistacik_ (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:08] * zarac (~zarac@84-55-97-138.customers.ownit.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:08] * PiBot sets mode +v zarac
[22:08] <zarac> woah! ; )
[22:08] <zarac> Hello folks... lots of folks.. ; )
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[22:09] * phoque (~nils@nrbg-4dbf197e.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:09] * PiBot sets mode +v phoque
[22:10] <FireFly> Helol tehre, zarac
[22:10] <FireFly> Hello* even
[22:10] <zarac> : )
[22:11] <zarac> So, what's up with the name? Does anyone know the story behind it?
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[22:11] * PiBot sets mode +v skilz
[22:11] * fraggle (spammailbo@port-92-223-20-185.dynamic.qsc.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:11] * PiBot sets mode +v fraggle
[22:11] * skilz is now known as Guest7412
[22:12] <Mookman288> Hah Amazon makes their own SD cards
[22:12] <_av500_> out of used books?
[22:15] <hotwings> by their own he means buys them from china
[22:17] * koaschten (~koaschten@p5B3A7AF1.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:18] <fraggle> yes i believ they dont build a fabric hu
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[22:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Tomtiger11
[22:19] * no-name- (~no-name@180.237.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:19] * PiBot sets mode +v no-name-
[22:19] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@91.85.220.26) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[22:20] * PiBot sets mode +v Tomtiger11
[22:21] <fraggle> hey guys do somebody knows how much ram my rPi will have if ill pre order it right now? will it be already 256mb?
[22:21] * The_Ball (~The_Ball@122.150.108.38) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:21] <haltdef> er?
[22:22] <zarac> fraggle: That's my understanding from reading the website.
[22:22] <Vazde> it should have 256
[22:22] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[22:22] <fraggle> yes
[22:22] <Thorn_> fraggle: you might be unlucky and get 255
[22:23] <zarac> Thorn_: Did you get 257? ; )
[22:23] <fraggle> oh u
[22:23] <danieldaniel> Why does everyone here troll so hard
[22:23] <Thorn_> to keep up the freenode spirit
[22:24] * unreal-dude (~pcnate@tripwire.is-very-evil.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] * PiBot sets mode +v unreal-dude
[22:24] <danieldaniel> Thorn_: Oh god, I should give you the logs of the channel I'm in 24/7
[22:24] <unreal-dude> o/
[22:24] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[22:24] <danieldaniel> its hilarious
[22:25] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:25] * PiBot sets mode +v zma
[22:25] <zarac> danieldaniel: Where's the trolling? ; )
[22:25] * fraggle (spammailbo@port-92-223-20-185.dynamic.qsc.de) has left #raspberrypi
[22:25] * zma (~zmac@c2s31-2-83-152-88-41.fbx.proxad.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:25] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[22:26] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[22:26] <hotwings> yeah, i dont see it either
[22:26] <fragalot> "fraggle" keeps hilighting me >.<
[22:27] <zarac> fragalot: Perhaps you have something in /hilight ?
[22:27] <fragalot> I do
[22:27] <fragalot> guess what. lol
[22:27] <zarac> frag ; )
[22:27] <fragalot> ;D
[22:27] <hotwings> lol @ highlighting your own text
[22:28] <hotwings> youd think people know what theyve said since, they, like typed it
[22:28] * strigel (51aefaee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.250.238) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:28] <fragalot> er, what?
[22:28] * PiBot sets mode +v strigel
[22:28] <zarac> Hehe, that confused me too.. ; )
[22:28] * ironzorg (~ironzorg@ironzorg.fr) has left #raspberrypi
[22:28] * ironzorg (~ironzorg@ironzorg.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:28] * PiBot sets mode +v ironzorg
[22:28] <fragalot> /hilight doesn't hilight the lines I type, only the ones typed by others that contain what I configure to be a keyword
[22:29] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[22:29] <hotwings> you should apply for a #mirchelp op position
[22:29] <fragalot> http://ompldr.org/vY3huag/irc.png like so.
[22:30] <zarac> OK, now i see what danieldaniel means.. ; )
[22:30] <danieldaniel> zarac: ?
[22:30] <zarac> well, not really trolling i guess ; )
[22:30] <zarac> danieldaniel: Your comment about people trolling in here. ; )
[22:31] <hotwings> apparently zarac thinks joking around is trolling
[22:31] <danieldaniel> oh
[22:31] <zarac> no hotwings i don't
[22:31] <fragalot> http://i.imgur.com/rJ0VS.jpg
[22:31] <fragalot> lmao
[22:31] <zarac> hahah! : )
[22:31] <hotwings> some people really need to let unwind their panties a bit and loosen up
[22:31] <nuil> fragalot: :D
[22:32] <hotwings> not sure if thats a man or woman in that pic
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[22:35] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[22:36] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@CPE0017f2324fce-CM0012250096a8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Soul_Est
[22:39] <nuil> http://imgur.com/WZ0WY
[22:39] <hotwings> *cue fail music*
[22:40] <DaQatz> I just realized the main site also has an archlinux image in downloads. Not just debian.
[22:40] <DaQatz> DL DL DL
[22:40] * rafal_ (~rafal@ip-78-30-108-34.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:41] <nuil> we should create a debian minimal image
[22:41] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-109-195.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:41] * PiBot sets mode +v rafal
[22:42] <fragalot> nuil: brilliant.
[22:42] <zarac> DaQatz: That must've just happened! I didn't see it a few hours ago. ; )
[22:42] <nuil> fragalot: the question is, how to do that
[22:42] <zarac> arch linux for the win ; )
[22:42] <fragalot> nuil: I meant the imgur
[22:42] <nuil> fragalot: :D
[22:43] <zarac> n1 nuil ; )
[22:43] <danieldaniel> nuil: i don't get it D:
[22:43] <nuil> :D
[22:44] <zarac> So, who are the people in here? Do the "staff" hang around here as well or "just" users?
[22:44] <zarac> s/do/does
[22:46] <nuil> how to create such a image?
[22:46] <nuil> zarac: i think this is only a user channel
[22:46] <Soul_Est> DaQatz: Now I'll have Arch on another machine. world domination indeed
[22:46] <DaQatz> =)
[22:46] <zarac> nuil: good, then i can talk crap ;0
[22:47] <zarac> Have you guys seen the tutorial videos on raspberrypitutorials @ youtube ?
[22:48] <piofcube> subscribed ;-)
[22:48] * zleap (~psutton@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:48] * PiBot sets mode +v zleap
[22:48] <nuil> zarac: not yet
[22:48] <zarac> hehe, me too. Although i'm confused as to what all but the last two has to do with raspberry pi. ; )
[22:48] <Soul_Est> zarac: me neither
[22:48] * khildin (~khildin@44.164-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit (Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
[22:49] <zarac> So, who already has a unit? : )
[22:50] <Soul_Est> zarac: not me :(
[22:51] <nuil> zarac: link?
[22:51] <zarac> nuil: To the youtube channel?
[22:51] <nuil> zarac: je
[22:51] <zarac> one sec..
[22:52] <zarac> http://www.youtube.com/raspberrypitutorials
[22:52] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[22:52] <zarac> Only two of them have something to do with raspberry pi though.
[22:53] <zarac> they show how to prepare the sd card ; 0
[22:53] <nuil> zarac: ty
[22:53] <zarac> flash it, whatever you want to call it : )
[22:53] <nuil> dd if=foo.img of=/dev/sda =)
[22:53] <zarac> they specify block size too ; )
[22:53] <zarac> bs=1M
[22:54] <zarac> now you don't have to watch it ;)
[22:54] <zarac> unless you need help downloading the image : )
[22:54] <fragalot> nuil: I'd laugh if you accidentally wiped your harddisk
[22:54] <fragalot> :D
[22:54] <fragalot> (I totally haven't done this before.)
[22:55] <zarac> fragalot: Better triple check to make sure it's the right disk... ; )
[22:55] <fragalot> anyway, off to bed. gnite!
[22:55] <zarac> double-checking is not enough.. i know from experience :&
[22:55] <fragalot> zarac: yup :P was a bit annoying in my case as there were 3 identical ones
[22:55] <zarac> gn8 as the germans say!
[22:55] <nuil> fragalot: i know that sda is my main harddisk
[22:56] <nuil> i'm still wondering how to create a debian image for rpi
[22:56] <zarac> nuil: Then that's probably not the one to use : )
[22:56] <mrdragons> Usb drives mount as sdb, sdc, and so on on my system
[22:57] <zarac> nuil: Hmm.. what might be on those premade images? : )
[22:57] <zarac> Perhaps there's a list on what needs to be done on the wiki somewhere..
[22:57] <zarac> if there's no fancy tweaks in the kernal or whatever..
[22:57] <nuil> zarac: i will just create a debian minimal
[22:58] <zarac> nuil: Ever tried arch linux?
[22:58] <zarac> I used to be a debian user... switched over to arch and haven't switched back.. ;)
[22:58] <mrdragons> +1
[22:58] <nuil> zarac: jep, but i love debian-based systems
[22:58] <zarac> Nothing wrong with debian.. but i feel cooler running arch ; )
[22:58] * tero (~0@86.58.60.109) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:58] * PiBot sets mode +v tero
[22:58] <nuil> zarac: i like apt
[22:58] <tero> new blog post :)
[22:58] <zarac> but.. pacman .. !
[22:59] * stvc (~stvc@ame-bb-dsl5-ws-62.dsl.airstreamcomm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:59] * PiBot sets mode +v stvc
[22:59] <zarac> Oh yeah! : )
[22:59] <nuil> zarac: but APT
[22:59] <zarac> : )
[23:00] <zarac> The only thing i miss from aptitude is the friendly messages about each package ; )
[23:00] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-178-004-226-181.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:00] <zarac> With pacman.. you actually have to open a website to find out more.. : (
[23:00] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:00] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[23:00] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[23:01] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:02] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:02] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[23:04] <nuil> got it, maybe =)
[23:05] <zarac> Does anyone have thoughts on which wm is the fastest out of lxde, xfce, openbox or other?
[23:05] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:05] * PiBot sets mode +v awakefield
[23:05] <zarac> Most lightweight... rather
[23:05] * awakefield (~awaekfiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> zarac: twm
[23:06] <chris_99> hmm, ratpoison?
[23:06] <nuil> zarac: awesome?
[23:06] <nuil> zarac: tty1?
[23:06] <zarac> never heard of any of them.. thanks : )
[23:06] <zarac> tty0 is faster
[23:06] <nuil> zarac: i'm sorry
[23:06] <zarac> I meant something graphical ; )
[23:07] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:07] <nuil> zarac: i think awesome could be the best one
[23:07] <Thorn_> lxde = openbox + fat
[23:07] <Thorn_> xfce smells bad
[23:07] <Thorn_> so openbox is the best choice
[23:07] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:07] * PiBot sets mode +v esotera
[23:07] <philh> lxde is definitely better than xfce
[23:08] <zarac> Ah, thanks : )
[23:08] <philh> it really depends if you want a desktop or just a wm and some menus
[23:08] <Thorn_> hi philh
[23:08] <philh> hey thedude
[23:08] <philh> shit
[23:08] <Thorn_> did you get a preorder in? ;p
[23:08] <philh> sorry randomly highlighted guy
[23:08] <zarac> What about fluxbox? Is that still used? :)
[23:08] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@91.85.220.26) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[23:08] <philh> Thorn_, nah, i'm happy to go without until they become generally available
[23:08] * Ahti333 (~Ahti333@dslc-082-082-133-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:08] * PiBot sets mode +v Ahti333
[23:09] <Thorn_> :>
[23:09] <zarac> philh: I really just need the wm and menus. ; )
[23:09] <Thorn_> you want *menus* ? you may aswell install kde 4 then...
[23:10] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:10] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[23:10] <zarac> Thorn_: What is fat?
[23:10] <Thorn_> yo momma
[23:10] * Thorn_ runs
[23:10] * Matthew is now known as Guest40317
[23:10] <zarac> Hmm.. Thorn_ Sorry i meant menu ; )
[23:10] <zarac> lol ; )
[23:11] * ObliqueTroll (~n800@cpc1-oxfd13-0-0-cust605.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:11] <zarac> Oh, you actually meant fat... ; )
[23:12] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[23:14] <ironzorg> why is there a special rpi release of archlinux arm ? Why not just take the regular arch arm and install it on my device ?
[23:15] <zarac> They should throw in respberry pi in the cycling banner on archlinuxarm.org ; )
[23:15] <zarac> ironzorg: Good question. ; ) I'm wondering too...
[23:16] * Raedon5 (~BlueBeep@109.77.192.136) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Raedon5
[23:16] <Soul_Est> ironzorg: because of the arm cpu inside?
[23:16] <zarac> ironzorg: How would you install it? Can RPi boot from the usb?
[23:16] <ironzorg> zarac: SD
[23:16] <ironzorg> Soul_Est: what you mean
[23:17] <zarac> ironzorg: So if it can only boot from SD how would you install it without being able to boot it?
[23:17] <zarac> You'd have to use another computer to do it, right?
[23:18] <ironzorg> what
[23:18] <zarac> : )
[23:18] <ironzorg> you have to dd the iso to the SD card first
[23:18] <ironzorg> and then boot on it from the rpi
[23:18] <ironzorg> I guess
[23:19] <zleap> same way as if you create a usb live cd, its a complete system i guess
[23:19] <philh> sounds messy and like a good reason for there to be a custom image
[23:19] <zarac> Oh, the install iso onto the SD card then install it to the same SD card?
[23:19] <zarac> Is that possible? : )
[23:19] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:19] <zarac> It says in the blog post that the guy Dave worked on it for six months.
[23:19] <ironzorg> zleap: actually, archlinux is not a "complete system"
[23:19] <zleap> ok
[23:20] <zarac> .. makes me think it's a bit tricky. ; )
[23:20] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:20] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[23:20] <ironzorg> its just a working linux distro, with a few packages available upon installation
[23:20] <ironzorg> but knowing that there are already ARM packages ready to be used
[23:20] <ironzorg> I wonder what he worked on
[23:21] <ironzorg> I guess it's hardware specific, but I have no clue
[23:21] <ironzorg> and since the forums is acting up???
[23:21] <Mookman288> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/NHD-C160100DIZ-FSW-FBW/NHD-C160100DIZ-FSW-FBW-ND/1885694 <-- that would be pretty cool if I knew how to connect it.
[23:21] <nuil> Mookman288: lcd module?
[23:22] * baldand (~quassel@host-109-204-180-222.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:22] <Mookman288> I would prefer e-ink, but 18.55 on 1 unit for backlit LCD
[23:23] <nuil> Mookman288: w8 a sec, i think i got something similar, but cheaper
[23:23] <nuil> Mookman288: and in color
[23:23] <zarac> Mookman288: Perhaps you can look around on arduino solutions for lcd's. Although i really have no clue, my guess is it'll work very similar or exactly the same. ; )
[23:23] <Mookman288> Color would be pretty cool
[23:23] <Mookman288> Can only be a guess until we get our hands on a pi zarac.
[23:23] <zarac> Mookman288: Where are you located, if i my ask?
[23:23] <Mookman288> Michigan
[23:23] <nuil> Mookman288: http://forum.doozan.com/read.php?2,2435
[23:23] <zarac> roger ; )
[23:23] <Mookman288> US
[23:23] <nuil> got it
[23:24] <zarac> Ah, neato. : )
[23:24] <nuil> Mookman288: e.g. as result http://geekparadise.de/wp-content/uploads/lcd.jpeg
[23:24] <Soul_Est> ironzorg: scratch what i said earlier. I think their just giving the foundation a leg up
[23:24] * Xark_ (32717be5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.113.123.229) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Xark_
[23:25] <Mookman288> nuil: That's not bad at all
[23:25] <Mookman288> nuil: Would be great for console
[23:25] <zarac> There's a store here in sweden that often has sales on touch screens for phones. (hence i asked) Sometimes they are less than $18. ;)
[23:25] <ironzorg> yes Soul_Est, I just read they had compatibility issues with the arm versions
[23:25] <nuil> Mookman288: ah, i do not think it is possible
[23:25] <zarac> ... not sure if they can be hooked up though. : )
[23:26] <Mookman288> Just for the neat factor I'd like to work with e-ink, but it seems fairly difficult to get ahold of a cheap version, hence the two-tone backlit LCD I was looking at.
[23:27] <Mookman288> mm gonna go grab some dinner.
[23:27] <zarac> Smaklig m??ltid!
[23:29] <nuil> gudn
[23:29] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[23:29] <mkopack> Honestly, right now, I wouldn't' buy an LCD for the RPi until we hear definitively that they included the DSI connector on the units or not
[23:30] <mkopack> Not unless you plan on hooking it up over Composite, HDMI or USB
[23:30] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:30] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> GPIO too
[23:31] <mkopack> lcd over GPIO?
[23:31] <mkopack> How? I2C?
[23:32] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@138.199.73.113) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Plankalkuel
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> that sort of thing.
[23:33] <zarac> mkopack: DSI = display serial interface?
[23:34] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Quit: .)
[23:34] <mkopack> Not sure if that's what it stands for, but yeah, the little connector??? they said the first boards wouldn't have the DSI + CSI (for the camera) connectors
[23:35] <Soul_Est> ironzorg: i figured that. oh well. more Arch for me! :)
[23:35] <zarac> mkopack: I haven't been following enough to know about those connectors ; )
[23:35] <ironzorg> Soul_Est: for me too
[23:36] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
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[23:40] * phoque (~nils@nrbg-4dbf197e.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[23:42] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Quit)
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[23:42] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[23:43] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-109-195.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[23:47] * devyx (~devyx@2001:470:1f15:1482:5eac:4cff:fe56:3f2d) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:48] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@cpe-70-124-1-56.rgv.res.rr.com) Quit ()
[23:51] * Guest40317 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[23:51] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-107-166.free.aero2.net.pl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:51] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@138.199.73.113) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:51] * rafal (~rafal@ip-78-30-107-40.free.aero2.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:51] * PiBot sets mode +v rafal
[23:53] * Christian9 (~christian@p57A3CE83.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[23:54] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[23:54] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:54] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[23:55] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[23:55] <danieldaniel> did I hear
[23:58] * [1]des2 (~des2@pool-96-232-64-48.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:58] * PiBot sets mode +v [1]des2
[23:58] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:59] <weasel> ah, more images without sources from the raspberry folks. yay.
[23:59] <mkopack> ?
[23:59] <weasel> http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads just provides binaries
[23:59] <mkopack> OS images?
[23:59] <weasel> now not only squeeze, but also arch linux.

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.