#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-03-10

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:04] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:04] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[0:05] * mranostay (~mranostay@pdpc/supporter/active/mranostay) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] * PiBot sets mode +v mranostay
[0:09] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Quit: zz)
[0:10] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:14] * dormant (~dormant@d54C1A06E.access.telenet.be) Quit (Quit: dormant)
[0:15] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[0:16] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:19] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[0:20] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:21] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: bye)
[0:21] * Christian9 (~christian@p4FF6AD2F.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:21] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian9
[0:22] * resnak (~resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:22] * PiBot sets mode +v resnak
[0:22] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:25] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[0:25] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[0:26] * Matthew is now known as Guest13401
[0:28] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[0:32] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:34] * piless2 (~piless@92.40.253.161.threembb.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] * PiBot sets mode +v piless2
[0:35] * SeySayux (~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:37] * scrambled (~used@2a01:e35:1399:6320:76e5:bff:fe0d:c0ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] * PiBot sets mode +v scrambled
[0:37] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] * PiBot sets mode +v customtronics
[0:38] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:39] * piless (~piless@92.40.254.194.threembb.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:39] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[0:41] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@Tom4u/founder/tomtiger11) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[0:42] * beardface_ (18d98b2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.217.139.42) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:47] * scrambled (~used@2a01:e35:1399:6320:76e5:bff:fe0d:c0ee) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[0:48] * Calc (~Calc@static-151-196-142-223.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[0:49] * Calc (~Calc@static-151-196-142-223.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:49] * PiBot sets mode +v Calc
[0:53] * victhor (~victhor@187.113.169.223) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:53] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[0:55] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * PiBot sets mode +v Snowl
[0:55] * SeySayux (~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * PiBot sets mode +v SeySayux
[0:56] * heymaste_ (~heymaster@78.61.212.188) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:56] * PiBot sets mode +v heymaste_
[0:58] * heymaster (~heymaster@2002:4e3d:d4bc:0:10d8:86c0:28a6:c01b) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:59] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:01] * koda (~vittorio@host174-212-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: koda)
[1:02] * SeySayux (~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:07] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[1:11] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:11] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[1:12] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[1:12] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[1:14] * jthunder (~jthunder@174.3.126.51) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] * PiBot sets mode +v jthunder
[1:19] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:19] * Calc (~Calc@static-151-196-142-223.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:20] * R` (~RHA@ip7.j-k.kund.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:20] * IT_Sean looks in
[1:21] <SpeedEvil> Hey
[1:21] <IT_Sean> hey SpeedEvil
[1:22] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:22] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[1:22] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host10-121-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
[1:27] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@245-22.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:30] * Christian9 (~christian@p4FF6AD2F.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[1:31] * Sko (~quassel@60-240-15-173.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:33] * SkoZombie (~quassel@60-240-15-173.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] * PiBot sets mode +v SkoZombie
[1:33] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] * PiBot sets mode +v smw_
[1:40] * Sko (~quassel@60-240-15-173.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:40] * PiBot sets mode +v Sko
[1:41] * SkoZombie (~quassel@60-240-15-173.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[1:41] * chrisjunkie (~Chris@2001:4428:22d:2:208:2ff:fe7e:6312) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:41] * PiBot sets mode +v chrisjunkie
[1:47] * lansiir (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:47] * PiBot sets mode +v lansiir
[1:49] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[1:52] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:54] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] * PiBot sets mode +v Snowl
[1:55] * piless2 (~piless@92.40.253.161.threembb.co.uk) Quit (Quit: bah)
[1:55] * ragna_ (~ragna@e180059061.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[1:59] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:03] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB241A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:03] * PiBot sets mode +v uen|
[2:03] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[2:04] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] * PiBot sets mode +v pingec
[2:04] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[2:04] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] * PiBot sets mode +v pingec
[2:04] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[2:05] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] * PiBot sets mode +v pingec
[2:05] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[2:05] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] * PiBot sets mode +v pingec
[2:05] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[2:05] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] * PiBot sets mode +v pingec
[2:05] * pingec (pingo@93-103-82-106.dynamic.t-2.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:05] * Guest13401 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:06] * uen (~uen@p5DCB279E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:07] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:07] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[2:07] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[2:07] * Matthew is now known as Guest99478
[2:07] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:13] * piless (5ec40e5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.196.14.91) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:13] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[2:13] * Caly_ (~Calyp@unaffiliated/caly) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:13] * PiBot sets mode +v Caly_
[2:14] * BasketOfKittens (ae5c5636@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.92.86.54) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:14] * PiBot sets mode +v BasketOfKittens
[2:14] * lansiir (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:16] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[2:17] * Caly_ is now known as Calyp
[2:17] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/caly) Quit (Changing host)
[2:17] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:17] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[2:18] * idiothair (~nomnom@gateway/tor-sasl/idiothair) Quit (Quit: idiothair)
[2:18] * Guest99478 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:21] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:21] * PiBot sets mode +v KrimZon_2
[2:24] * BasketOfKittens (ae5c5636@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.92.86.54) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[2:24] * KrimZon_2_ (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:26] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[2:35] * CasperN (~casper@81-233-58-70-no71.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:36] * Caly_ (~Calyp@unaffiliated/caly) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Caly_
[2:36] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:36] * Milos_ (~Milos@2001:4428:27e:beef:289e:debe:f7bd:9cd7) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos_
[2:37] * Milos_ (~Milos@2001:4428:27e:beef:289e:debe:f7bd:9cd7) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:37] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[2:38] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:39] * Caly_ is now known as Calyp
[2:39] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/caly) Quit (Changing host)
[2:39] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[2:41] <ReggieUK> wahahahahay :)
[2:42] <ReggieUK> I got the whole 64MB running on this digital photoframe :)
[2:42] <ReggieUK> happy bunny
[2:42] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:42] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:42] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[2:43] <philh> ReggieUK, not sure i understand, what have you been trying to accomplish?
[2:43] <ReggieUK> I've spent the last few days upgrading the ram on a digital photoframe
[2:44] <ReggieUK> from the actual soldering of the chip
[2:44] <IT_Sean> kiiinky
[2:44] <ReggieUK> to configuring the ram registers in uboot to see all 64MB (default is 8mb stock ram)
[2:44] <ReggieUK> also been through an unbricking process
[2:45] <IT_Sean> so.... doesit werk?
[2:45] <ReggieUK> and had to document it :D
[2:45] <philh> ok, that's somewhat remarkable
[2:45] <ReggieUK> do you think I'd be shouting about it IT_Sean if it didn't work? :D
[2:45] <IT_Sean> Well... it's possible
[2:45] <philh> what kind of frame is it?
[2:45] <ReggieUK> http://sites.google.com/site/repurposelinux/df3120
[2:45] <IT_Sean> that's awesome
[2:45] <ReggieUK> little 3.5" frame
[2:46] <ReggieUK> I got sent a random 64MB ram chip
[2:46] <ReggieUK> all I knew about it was that it was pc133, 64MB, 32Mx16
[2:47] <ReggieUK> so I've had to decode the 2 settings that are in our uboot, compare them to the datasheets, work out the relationship between them all and take stab in the dark (Educated guess) at what the register setting should be :)
[2:48] <ReggieUK> all useful, i also learnt how to use jtag for the first time
[2:48] * SpeedEvil has a minor success - added another bag of books to amazon.
[2:49] <ReggieUK> hehehe :)
[2:49] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:49] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[2:49] <ReggieUK> hopefully I've also discovered enough for us to be able to provide a universal uboot that boot independently of how much ram is on the frame :)
[2:51] <SpeedEvil> That would be awesome.
[2:53] <ReggieUK> depends if blkhawk gets brave :D
[2:53] <ReggieUK> and checking some datasheets
[2:54] <ReggieUK> pretty annoyed that his didn't have the ras/cas info in it
[2:54] <ReggieUK> not his fault of course :D
[2:55] <ReggieUK> and we've got a sound method for testing the ram actually works and isn't wrapping around
[2:58] * victhor (~victhor@187.113.169.223) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:04] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:08] * SeySayux (~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:08] * PiBot sets mode +v SeySayux
[3:08] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[3:12] * SeySayux (~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:15] * MooseEh (~MooseEh@96.49.107.205) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:15] * PiBot sets mode +v MooseEh
[3:15] * ragna (~ragna@e180059061.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:15] * PiBot sets mode +v ragna
[3:16] <philh> ReggieUK, so, where's the best place to buy one of these fames?
[3:16] <philh> just ebay?
[3:19] * SpeedEvil wonders if they are still ...
[3:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-3-5-inch-Photo-Viewer/dp/B0018A55B0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331345944&sr=8-1
[3:20] <SpeedEvil> aha
[3:23] <ReggieUK> philh, yeah, really jusdt ebay
[3:25] <ReggieUK> and amazon :D
[3:25] * mmattice (mmattice@unaffiliated/mmattice) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:26] * Rely_Train is now known as rely
[3:26] * mmattice (mmattice@unaffiliated/mmattice) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:26] * PiBot sets mode +v mmattice
[3:27] * jol02 (~jolo2@147.13.119.80.rev.sfr.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:28] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[3:30] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) Quit (Excess Flood)
[3:32] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Maccer
[3:34] * ragna (~ragna@e180059061.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
[3:34] * ragna (~ragna@e180059061.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:34] * PiBot sets mode +v ragna
[3:35] * ragna (~ragna@e180059061.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:43] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[3:43] * piless (5ec40e5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.196.14.91) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:46] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:47] * DataSpree (~DataSpree@ip72-204-12-32.fv.ks.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[3:49] * jiqi (~ssc-1@111.193.3.151) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:49] * PiBot sets mode +v jiqi
[3:51] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
[3:59] <des2> Soldering your own photoframe ram is pretty hardcore.
[4:03] <ddss|mips> wut
[4:07] <SpeedEvil> des2: Naah.
[4:07] <SpeedEvil> It's trivial.
[4:07] <SpeedEvil> It's a tssop package.
[4:08] <SpeedEvil> That's damn near bearskins and stone axe territory.
[4:09] * skilz (~skilz@unaffiliated/skilz) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[4:10] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4dbc4111.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:10] * PiBot sets mode +v oberling
[4:12] * warddr (~warddr@2a01:4f8:140:72a1::151) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:12] * warddr (~warddr@2a01:4f8:140:72a1::151) Quit (Changing host)
[4:12] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:12] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[4:12] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[4:14] * oberling_ (~oberling@brln-4dbc60aa.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:16] <ReggieUK> hahaha, yeah, a zippo and a spoon is all you need to solder that ram
[4:16] <ReggieUK> des2, search youtube for drag soldering
[4:17] <ReggieUK> or eevblog does a good tutorial on soldering smd parts
[4:17] <ReggieUK> when you see someone do it for the first time you think, wtf?
[4:17] <ReggieUK> so fast
[4:19] <ReggieUK> line up the ic on a pre-tinned pad, tack it quickly with your iron, then use drag soldering to drag an iron loaded with lead down the row of legs
[4:19] <ReggieUK> you can get special tips too
[4:20] <ReggieUK> that have a shallow well in the end that will hold the lead so you don't have to drag a huge blob of solder down the IC
[4:20] * DataSpree (~DataSpree@ip72-204-12-32.fv.ks.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:20] * PiBot sets mode +v DataSpree
[4:21] <ReggieUK> the good bit with the mod is figuring out how to correctly configure the ram and it actually working
[4:25] * MooseEh (~MooseEh@96.49.107.205) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:29] * kilohelo (~freenode_@69.61.67.40) has left #raspberrypi
[4:29] * skilz (~skilz@1.150.164.166) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:29] * PiBot sets mode +v skilz
[4:30] * skilz (~skilz@1.150.164.166) Quit (Changing host)
[4:30] * skilz (~skilz@unaffiliated/skilz) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:30] * PiBot sets mode +v skilz
[4:30] * beardface (18d98b2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.217.139.42) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:31] <mranostay> go beagleboard!
[4:31] * mranostay (~mranostay@pdpc/supporter/active/mranostay) has left #raspberrypi
[4:32] * resnak (~resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:34] * SpeedEvil idly wonders if (beagle|panda)(bone|board) may drop in price in reaction.
[4:34] * sqrt[evil] hopes
[4:35] * Karmaon (~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:35] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[4:37] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:37] * PiBot sets mode +v resnak
[4:40] * kanser (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:40] * PiBot sets mode +v kanser
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[4:48] <DaQatz> Would be nice
[4:49] <mkopack> Yo, sup gang?
[4:49] <Syliss> oi oi
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[5:20] <Milos> have you guys seen the news
[5:20] <Milos> http://www.techspot.com/news/47734-raspberry-pi-suffers-manufacturing-error-shipments-delayed.html
[5:20] <Milos> should be put into /topic
[5:20] <Milos> !op
[5:21] <mrdragons> It's already on the site's main page
[5:22] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, that would be something everyone who cares would already know.
[5:26] <Milos> mk, nice to see the channel staying up-to-date
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[5:37] <jamesglanville> i'm guessing not, but does anyone know why rs sent out the "yay you got the first batch" email today? I'm presuming this is either a sign the fixed boards are nearing completion, or they were expecting to have the boards sooner and today triggered the emails
[5:40] <SpeedEvil> Some did not get a 'first batch' email
[5:40] <SpeedEvil> I assume it means you were in the first 5K to register through RS
[5:41] <SpeedEvil> So you will be one of the first to get your board. (assuming farnell isn't faster)
[5:42] <jamesglanville> yeah i've ordered one from farnell too, stayed up the whole night to order in the morning, so i feel like it was worthwhile if I get this before mid april (though i'm not hoping too much)
[5:43] <jamesglanville> if I get two, I'm going to ebay the second for cost price + shipping, then I don't feel bad for getting two and profiting
[5:43] <jamesglanville> or actually i have friends who didn't get an early preorder, i may just sell it to them at the price i paid
[5:43] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how ebay works.
[5:44] <SpeedEvil> I mean - can you say '31 quid, with the remainder automatically going to r-pi'
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[5:45] <jamesglanville> I don't think so, does r-pi have a donate link?
[5:45] <sqrt[evil]> ebay does have some stuff for charity auctions
[5:45] <sqrt[evil]> not sure how it works though
[5:45] <jamesglanville> tbh, even if I turned a profit, there a bunch of people I know who would love to have a r-pi but are very poor, I could just buy them one with the profits and give them it for free
[5:45] <jamesglanville> I think the charities are a few selected by ebay
[5:46] <jamesglanville> haven't looked into it though
[5:47] <sqrt[evil]> yeah it seems you'er right
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[5:49] <jamesglanville> I'm surprised there hasn't been a 3d printable case on thingiverse yet, personally I can't be bothered to design one until I have the board in my hand because I find it much easier to design with callipers and a good look than I do from board dimensions, but I guess other people think that too...
[5:49] <jamesglanville> I think I might die of nerdgasm when my r-pi can give me a touchscreen 3d printer interface+browser+slicer+printer controller
[5:50] <mkopack> james: there are some, just no plans released. The issue is that people don't want to release the designs until they've checked them against an actual RPi
[5:50] <mkopack> beard face on here has been printing up mock RPi boards though so people can use those to test fit their case designs against
[5:51] <mkopack> Of course, he's using the same specs as what the 3D case designers have been using, so god only knows if those specs are correct in terms of sizes and placements on the actual Rpi
[5:51] <jamesglanville> yeah, I think I'll sell a fair few somewhat-customised cases to people, and I couldn't do that without a test board. tbh, it doesn't take that much time to design stuff so I may just wait
[5:52] <piless> mkopack: Reckon the new ethernet jacks will be the same exact dimensions?
[5:52] <jamesglanville> I feel like having the thing in my hands would make it easier to spot problems
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[5:53] <jamesglanville> I presume they will be, surely the designs in the wild are based on specs not "haha we lied and put the wrong parts in" specs?
[5:53] <piless> jamesglanville: Well, this is their first product.
[5:54] <jamesglanville> I don't mean anything bad about the foundation, i mean the factory
[5:54] <mkopack> I can't imagine they'd be any different
[5:54] <des2> It's not like RPF has been forthcoming with exact dimensions.
[5:54] <jamesglanville> as far as I can see, the r-pi foundation has acted flawlessly but have been unlucky
[5:55] <des2> It's hardly luck
[5:55] <des2> What happened was forseable by anyone with a clue.
[5:55] <piless> it's kind of what you get when you go with cheap chinese factories
[5:57] <mkopack> yeah, UGH
[5:57] <jamesglanville> i'm mostly surprised the boards just didn't have working ethernet, I would have expected poor performance due to suboptimal parts, below spec stuff that would /just/ be acceptable and not cost the factory money
[5:58] <jamesglanville> I can't see how anyone thought this would work as a scam
[5:58] <SpeedEvil> They are totally different parts.
[5:58] <piless> Ideally they should have one of the team over there overseeing the production if they don't already
[5:58] <SpeedEvil> Sourcing is hard.
[5:58] <mkopack> (although this sort of thing does happen at factories everywhere, it's just more common to happen in the Chinese ones???) When it happens domestically, it's often because they buy parts that turn out to be counterfeit, without it being their fault really.
[5:58] <des2> Someone got money and tookl off.
[5:58] <jamesglanville> yeah I guess that's likely
[5:59] <des2> Cause you can't tell just buy looking at the part.
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[5:59] <des2> We'll likely never really know who was responsible.
[5:59] <piless> A lot of counterfeit merchandise is often made at the same factory as the legitimate items.
[5:59] <mkopack> Or they'll give you a sample that you know will pass your inspection, and then the rest of the order will be CRAP
[5:59] <des2> That's what happened to them
[6:00] <des2> The factory gave them a board that worked but the rest of the ones had the wrong part.
[6:00] <jamesglanville> piless: yeah I get the impression that most counterfeit sd cards (for example) either didn't meet spec and were stolen, or were made by someone out of hours
[6:00] <mkopack> yup, which is why you have to be diligent and do constant random checks.. pull a random one off the line every couple hundred and check it thoroughly
[6:00] <piless> des2: Got a source for that?
[6:00] <SpeedEvil> Umm - no.
[6:00] <ewan> I'm still waiting for the counterfeit pis
[6:00] <SpeedEvil> The board tested out OK to a limited degree
[6:01] <des2> piless that's what Liz wrote in the description of the events.
[6:01] <ewan> e.g. the factory run they do at night
[6:01] <SpeedEvil> IT was not fully tested for function.
[6:01] <des2> I'll find the link in a minute.
[6:01] <mkopack> piless: yeah Liz/Eben stated that's what happened??? They got 100 test boards and those all passed, but the production ones used a different part
[6:01] <ewan> SOP for a lot of these places is do the clients's run during the day, and their own run at night
[6:01] <jamesglanville> I recall someone saying that the test boards were made in someone else's factory (something like a friend/founder of the organisation) so they proved the /design/ was fine
[6:02] <sqrt[evil]> jamesglanville: yeah i remember reading that too, but coudlnt' find it when i looked yesterday
[6:02] <sqrt[evil]> guess i'm not crazy after all
[6:02] <mkopack> the BETA boards were, yes??? We're talking about the Production test run boards from the chinese factory
[6:02] <jamesglanville> ewan: SOP? standard operating procedure at a guess, am i right there?
[6:02] <ewan> yup
[6:02] <mkopack> james: yes
[6:02] <piless> mkopack: Bloody hell.. That's inexcusable. If they didn't have so many neckbeards waiting back home they should have just told the factory to go fuck themselves
[6:02] <mkopack> piless: It's a pretty common practice with these damn factories in China...
[6:02] <sqrt[evil]> piless: eh? what does 'go fuck themselves' mean?
[6:03] <piless> sqrt[evil]: End their working relationship
[6:03] <mkopack> They give you something that passes your initial quality control??? then as soon as they are given the go-ahead to do full up production, they start replacing parts for cheaper components so they can make more profit.
[6:03] <sqrt[evil]> piless: maybe they did? but they either get them to fix the boards or take a loss on them...
[6:03] <mkopack> How the HELL do you think they make this stuff so cheap and are able to undercut western production houses?
[6:03] <sqrt[evil]> companies in China exist just to keep tabs on Chinese manufacturing for western clients
[6:04] <sqrt[evil]> apparently the foundation thought they could handle it remotely
[6:04] <ewan> the best I've seen is a capacitor rated at x farads, with an inferior capacitor _inside_ the capacitor with the specced farad rating
[6:04] <mkopack> and it's not just electronics. They pull this crap all the time - Construction projects contract for a certain grade steel, they get some in that's right, and then the next shipment will be some lower grade stuff
[6:05] <sqrt[evil]> Bunnie of Bunnie Studios has written quite a bit on chinese electronics manufacturing
[6:05] <sqrt[evil]> some of it is pretty interesting
[6:05] <techman2> we do work for some chinese owned companies. They'll do ANYTHING to save a buck.
[6:05] <mkopack> Sparkfun got hit with the fake stuff on a back of AVR chips they got??? And recently one of the project on MAKE got hit as well with counterfeit parts
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[6:05] <jamesglanville> this is part of the reason that when people say china will be the next superpower, I think brazil/india is more likely - more sustainable economy
[6:05] <sqrt[evil]> e.g. http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=201
[6:06] <piless> Do you think that conspiracy about how they put back doors in cisco routers etc has any merit?
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[6:06] <sqrt[evil]> piless: no idea, but it does scare me just a little that so much of our infrastructure depends on closed-source code
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[6:06] <sqrt[evil]> it's feasible at least
[6:07] <mkopack> Yup??? They will say "Oh, we do that for $10 (best western company who will use the correct parts can do is $14)" then the chinese will go and replace the parts so, yea, they CAN do it for $10, but that's because they're using under-specced cheaper parts to make the margin. They get the business, western company gets screwed out of the business, western client has to spend a fortune tracking down why all their products keep failin
[6:07] <piless> It's quite possible that china has the ability to remotely shut down your infrastructure remotel
[6:08] <piless> So are the first batch of boards going to be a hit or miss, or are the foundation going to be putting the foot down now?
[6:08] <jamesglanville> I hate hate hate closed source stuff for this reason, but it's scary to think you can get silicon rootkits (probably a better term) that you can't detect in software
[6:08] <sqrt[evil]> well look at stuff like stuxnet. governments are a lot more sophisticated about this stuff than most people give them credit for.
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[6:09] <jamesglanville> I must admit, I find stuxnet quite awesome for technical skill/audacity
[6:09] <sqrt[evil]> it's a fascinating story
[6:09] <mkopack> piless: dunno??? That's the big question. If there are big problems once the boards start getting out into people's hands, that's when the REAL black eye for this whole thing would happen...
[6:09] <mkopack> Right now it's just an annoyance that we've had to wait a little longer
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[6:09] <des2> "We received one initial small test batch of boards which did not have these jacks on them; they tested fine. The first production batch had a different jack in place and it was that batch (we test every single thing that comes from the factory) that failed testing."
[6:10] <piless> mkopack: I really hope people don't use the low price as an excuse for poor quality
[6:10] <mkopack> If 100K units get out into the wild in the next month and there are massive problems with them, it's going to be really bad news for the RPF.
[6:10] <des2> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781#comments
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[6:10] <sqrt[evil]> well really there's not much to go wrong
[6:10] <mkopack> des: WTG Mr. Investigative reporter! :)
[6:10] <sqrt[evil]> the board is very simple
[6:11] <des2> Really you have to let the first 10,000 be out for a week or 2 before you start producing en-masse.
[6:11] <sqrt[evil]> maybe the power supplies?
[6:11] <mkopack> sqrt: You WERE around back in Nov/Dec when they get the Beta boards and realized there ws a problem, right?
[6:11] <sqrt[evil]> wasn't that a design issue? i recall something but not the specifics
[6:11] <piless> mkopack: they had to resolder parts didn't they?
[6:12] <des2> A 6-layer board with these high-pin-count parts on them isn't something I'd call simple.
[6:12] <mkopack> Power supplies, bad solder joints, loose connectors, inferior capacitors or resistors, bad grounding, etc. TONS of things that could still go wrong
[6:13] <piless> ugh, slightly regretting ordering now
[6:13] <mkopack> piless: yeah, they had to break 1 trace and solder a different one to fix it which is why out of the 100 beta boards they had built, they only modified like 20??? and then e-bayed 10 of those
[6:13] <des2> I consider the forst 10,000 to be beta testers.
[6:13] <mkopack> YUP
[6:13] <techman2> I hope the factory will realise that they can't get away with substitutions now that they have to resolder the 10k
[6:13] <sqrt[evil]> i'm thinking of things that can go wrong that will pass testing...
[6:13] <mkopack> and let's HOPe they're doing a better job of keeping a watchful eye on the chinese producer here on out
[6:13] <des2> We don't really know for sure if it was the factory.
[6:13] <jamesglanville> yeah, that'll be a painful lesson to learn, though I fear it'll just be fixed through the staff having horrible jobs than the boss losing money
[6:14] <des2> Or if the factory just got snookered themselves.
[6:14] <techman2> not sure.
[6:14] <mkopack> des: That's possible as well??? They might have bought what they legitimately though WAS the correct part (somebody pulled a fast one on them)
[6:14] <des2> I'
[6:15] <des2> I'm suspicious cause the first test bunch had the correct part.
[6:15] <piless> mkopack: Uhh, wouldn't the part number have been different?
[6:15] <mkopack> piless: HAHA, you underestimate the sneakiness of the counterfeit folks...
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[6:15] <mkopack> Let me find the link??? hold on
[6:15] <jamesglanville> how likely is it that a jack without magnetics would work? I would have thought it would be possible to make it "work" to a limited extent if the other end of the cable was made to spec, though you'd get intereference in the ground plane
[6:16] <techman2> piless: have you seen some of the fake intel cpus on ebay?
[6:16] <piless> jamesglanville: a jack without magnetics would need another part on the board to work.
[6:16] <des2> Not clear james. I've heard conflicting theories that it would woek for short distances or wouldn't work at all.
[6:16] <mkopack> http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.makezine.com%2F2012%2F02%2F17%2Freel-crime-the-pulse-sensor-counterfeit-leds-story%2F&h=8AQGG6GewAQHMwcBvUuf6mr3_PJ1KzmmMfztMeWQwEXFTkw
[6:16] <mkopack> Give THAT a read
[6:16] <sqrt[evil]> jamesglanville: it can definitely work, i've done it
[6:16] <sqrt[evil]> thought with 10mbit
[6:16] <jamesglanville> ah ok, I've definitely seen fpga boards work bit banging ethernet without magnetics, but wasn't sure how fragile
[6:16] <sqrt[evil]> i suspect it may have a different pinout than a straight jack, and that's why it hasn't worked
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[6:17] <piless> techman2: Nope
[6:17] <des2> Liz seemed to imply networking didn't work at all which may be due to different pin configuration.
[6:17] <piless> techman2: Intel make all their cpus in the USA though
[6:18] <des2> No they don't
[6:18] <des2> I have lots of Intel CPUs from around the world.
[6:18] <des2> Malaysia for example.
[6:19] <mkopack> Even Intel has problems with their suppliers??? They've had issues with getting blank wafers for instance??? They'll order x and supplier will give them y which doesn't quite match X's specs
[6:19] <jamesglanville> cpus seem far safer to make in china in that you could probably move production to the usa/europe with less of a worker salary penalty than something like making a full board
[6:19] <sqrt[evil]> well according to wiki, most of their fabs are in the US, whiel they do assembly elsewhere
[6:19] <sqrt[evil]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_sites
[6:20] <techman2> piless: no they don't.
[6:20] <techman2> piless: they have fabs and packaging plants all over the world.
[6:20] <piless> Hmm, I read an article not so long ago that said they were required to under usa defence law or some such.
[6:21] <GabrialDestruir> Congratulations! We???re pleased to let you know that you are in the first batch of our registrations for Raspberry Pi.
[6:21] * jumpkick (~jumpkick@206-248-184-10.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[6:21] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[6:21] <des2> Congratulations!
[6:21] <piless> GabrialDestruir: RS?
[6:21] <mkopack> piless: yeah, probably certain product lines are required here in the USA.
[6:21] <GabrialDestruir> Yea....
[6:21] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[6:22] <GabrialDestruir> except mine is already ordered through farnell
[6:22] <piless> GabrialDestruir: That's easy then, buy two
[6:22] <techman2> I remember reading an article recently where someone ordered a sandy bridge cpu off ebay and when it arrived it was an old pentium d (skt 775) that was branded and boxed as if it was a SB.
[6:22] <techman2> quite an extensive counterfeit job
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[6:22] <techman2> even the printing on the heat spreader had been changed
[6:22] <sqrt[evil]> techman2: there are plenty of really interesting counterfeiting stories
[6:23] <sqrt[evil]> first time i've heard of it on intel cpus though
[6:23] <piless> techman2: Yeah but ebay is just full of nigerian scammers nowadays anyway
[6:23] <techman2> piless: I have no doubt this was chinese counterfeiting.
[6:23] <GabrialDestruir> Not really worth it...
[6:23] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[6:23] <techman2> nope
[6:23] <techman2> not at all
[6:24] <des2> It does appear that Intel maked most of the dies in the US, but these are shipped to foreign companies for final assembly/testing.
[6:24] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Well apparently they're all going to break straight away so just keep the second for when it breaks
[6:24] <sqrt[evil]> techman2: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=208
[6:24] <sqrt[evil]> (really, this guy's blog has some great stuff)
[6:25] <des2> There are 2 levels of fakes.
[6:25] <techman2> des2: yes, they have a lot of fab in the US.
[6:26] <des2> 1 - Fakes which are complete fakes. The chips can't work at all what they are suppose to be.
[6:26] <GabrialDestruir> Who says they'll all break? o.O
[6:26] <des2> 2 - fakes which are just inferior copies of the real thing, And don't meet full specs/quality.
[6:26] <mkopack> Yeah, Ebay just isn't worth the hassle anymore...
[6:26] <GabrialDestruir> That sounds a lot like the "ALL US CUSTOMERS WILL END UP PAYING 180 DOLLARS FOR PI" crap.....
[6:27] <mkopack> des: Or ones that failed QC and only somewhat work
[6:27] <jamesglanville> those seem the worst, you could very easily not test them enough and ship them to customers
[6:27] <des2> Yes
[6:28] <sqrt[evil]> yeah, in any kind of production these days verifying the supply chain is really important
[6:28] <des2> The funcube dongle fake issue was inferior parts.
[6:28] <jamesglanville> i've been very lucky buying cheap sd cards and such, I think some must have been stolen rather than counterfeited, which i feel bad about but at least they work fine
[6:28] <sqrt[evil]> i only buy used stuff on ebay these days
[6:28] <techman2> I just hate how quality doesn't mean anything anymore in so much production.
[6:28] <des2> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781#comments
[6:28] <des2> oops
[6:28] <GabrialDestruir> What's brought on this whole "All Pi's will break" thing? o.O
[6:29] <des2> http://www.funcubedongle.com/?p=383
[6:29] <sqrt[evil]> well currently, all pis are broken
[6:29] <techman2> heh
[6:29] <des2> They let a chinese manufacturer source their parts and ended up with 60% failures due to a fake part.
[6:29] <piless> Are there any sd card manufacturers that market their cards in GiB and not GB?
[6:30] * skilz (~skilz@120.153.76.250) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:30] <piless> So a 16gb card is 16gb and not 14.7gb
[6:30] <techman2> piless: not sure, it seems to be the common unit nowadays.
[6:30] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
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[6:30] <techman2> annoying
[6:30] <GabrialDestruir> -facedesks-
[6:30] <techman2> HDD manufacturers do it all the time
[6:30] <piless> techman2: Such a scam, even seagate got sued over it.
[6:31] <sqrt[evil]> i find this whole GB vs. GiB thing rather hilarious tbh
[6:31] <sqrt[evil]> it's completely arbitrary
[6:31] <sqrt[evil]> who cares
[6:31] <Nemo7> it's not
[6:31] <techman2> we sell 500GB HDDs in our boxes as standard and they all format to 465GB
[6:31] <Nemo7> they format to 465 GiB
[6:31] <sqrt[evil]> you get your 500,000,000,000 bytes
[6:31] <sqrt[evil]> you're not getting 'ripped off'
[6:31] <piless> sqrt[evil]: If I told this hdd is such and such, I expect it to be 1024 bytes to a kilobyte and not 1000
[6:32] <sqrt[evil]> why?
[6:32] * codesnow (~snow@72.53.127.167) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:32] <sqrt[evil]> it's an arbitrary distinction for a block storage device
[6:32] <piless> sqrt[evil]: Every other industry uses GB as GiB
[6:32] <sqrt[evil]> do you also expect your 1Gbps LAN to also be measured in a power of two?
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[6:32] * PiBot sets mode +v smw_
[6:33] <piless> It is *only* storage manufacturers who market it like this.
[6:33] <sqrt[evil]> personally it makes more sense to count bytes and use powers of ten
[6:33] <techman2> I think it annoys me because I have 1024MB in a GB cemented in my brain.
[6:33] <des2> Yes because of memory.
[6:33] <sqrt[evil]> in storage, the units are used by people, there is no connection to a power of two
[6:33] <sqrt[evil]> memory is the exception, not the rule
[6:33] <GabrialDestruir> Bah
[6:34] <GabrialDestruir> they should just make 1024 = 1024 on a disk .-.
[6:34] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Exactly
[6:34] <techman2> sqrt[evil]: yes but when people get sold something as 500GB and then their OS tells them its 465GB they think wtf?
[6:34] <sqrt[evil]> techman2: yeah, that's probably why OSX and Ubuntu both switched to using power of 10 units
[6:34] <des2> In a sense what the disk manufacturers are using is more correct, but the switchover to 1000 vs 1024 was to their benefit.
[6:34] <piless> techman2: Unless it's a mac. Macs report it as 1000 bytes to a kilobyte
[6:35] <Nemo7> "more" correct?
[6:35] <sqrt[evil]> the only time it might have been an issue was back in the early 90s and they made a switch
[6:35] <sqrt[evil]> just because they weren't clear about it
[6:35] <piless> It's exactly how like ISPs will market their speeds in Mbits and not MB/s
[6:35] <sqrt[evil]> but it's not decades later and everybody that cares knows what they're getting
[6:35] <GabrialDestruir> Supposedly 1000 is more accurate with cylinders or whatever
[6:35] <GabrialDestruir> vs the OS 1024
[6:35] <sqrt[evil]> piless: how the hell does it relate to that?
[6:35] <des2> I realize my language is less correct Nemo7...
[6:35] <sqrt[evil]> network capacity has always been measured in bits/s
[6:36] <GabrialDestruir> Which I always found as a stupid excuse....
[6:36] <des2> It's time to leave powers of 2 units.
[6:36] <GabrialDestruir> if you're selling a 500GB HDD it should show up 500GB
[6:37] <sqrt[evil]> GabrialDestruir: right, so let's change the OS
[6:37] <SpeedEvil>
[6:37] <sqrt[evil]> the power of 10 units are more useful to humans, and block storage does not come in powers of two sizes like memory does
[6:37] <sqrt[evil]> so there is no advantage to using the 2^n units
[6:37] <GabrialDestruir> Yea... sure
[6:38] <GabrialDestruir> convince microsoft they're wrong
[6:38] <GabrialDestruir> and to use 1000
[6:38] <sqrt[evil]> Apple and Ubuntu (and probably some other linuxes) already do
[6:38] <sqrt[evil]> wouldn't surprise me if MS joined them
[6:38] <piless> Apple & Ubuntu suck at usability
[6:39] <sqrt[evil]> o.O
[6:39] <piless> O.o
[6:39] <sqrt[evil]> you guys are hopeless :)
[6:39] <sqrt[evil]> the 10^n units are *more* usable
[6:40] <GabrialDestruir> Mac has great usability....
[6:40] <GabrialDestruir> If you over look the whole proprietary hardware thing they've got going
[6:40] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: oldtopman has left the house)
[6:42] <techman2> I struggle with the price of their hardware
[6:42] <GabrialDestruir> Same.
[6:42] <techman2> it's just standard PC gear.
[6:42] <sqrt[evil]> i struggle with just about every facet of their operation
[6:42] <sqrt[evil]> they are a cancer on computing
[6:42] <GabrialDestruir> It's the reason I don't own a macbook air
[6:42] <GabrialDestruir> I really like the macbook air
[6:43] <jamesglanville> I /really/ want an "ultrabook" MBA clone
[6:43] <techman2> sqrt[evil]: wrapped in glossy packaging of course ;)
[6:43] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Would you be able to live without a dvd drive?
[6:43] <sqrt[evil]> lol
[6:44] <techman2> only a company like apple could think of calling their latest product "The new blah"
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[6:44] * PiBot sets mode +v Flea86
[6:44] <GabrialDestruir> Yes
[6:44] <sqrt[evil]> do they actually have such a product
[6:45] <techman2> I read steve jobs biography. The guy was totally nuts in some aspects.
[6:45] <piless> sqrt[evil]: apple are hardly a cancer, they're so massively huge now they're more like the lungs
[6:45] <techman2> sqrt[evil]: they've called the latest ipad "the new ipad"
[6:45] <sqrt[evil]> lmao
[6:45] <techman2> that's the official label.
[6:45] <sqrt[evil]> what will they call the next one?!
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[6:45] <techman2> the new new ipad.
[6:45] <piless> techman2: To be fair, have you looked at the specs of the thing? It blows any android tablet out of the water and at a lower price point
[6:46] <techman2> or new ipad S
[6:46] <GabrialDestruir> I could easily use my desktop to rip any DVDs I needed and us some sort of disk emulator, I'm sure they exist.
[6:46] <des2> But the next ipad will be the new ipad.
[6:46] <sqrt[evil]> they make great hardware, and resaonably good software (though cumbersome)
[6:46] <ewan> I never understood tablets
[6:46] <Flea86> techman2: I've also read his book, sounds like a few bosses I've worked with ;-)
[6:46] <ewan> like, what can a tablet do a 12" thinkpad can't?
[6:46] <Flea86> *for
[6:46] <sqrt[evil]> ewan: personally i feel the same, but i see why people buy them
[6:46] <piless> ewan: It's the way it's going. Microsoft has more or less moved to abandoning desktops with windows 8 and metro
[6:46] <sqrt[evil]> they're a fun toy
[6:47] <sqrt[evil]> and my parents got one for my grandma, it's the only backlit e-reader she's been able to figure out
[6:47] <GabrialDestruir> I like Mac's desktop, it's not really all that restrictive software wise....
[6:47] <GabrialDestruir> unlike their mobile devices
[6:47] <techman2> piless: yes it does but I just think their marketing is totally over the top, I guess that's one of the reasons they are killing it though.
[6:47] <piless> techman2: But it works!
[6:48] <des2> Microsoft is so desperate to get back into mobile that they'll ruin desktop software to do it.
[6:48] <sqrt[evil]> yeah, it's all about the marketing
[6:48] <techman2> I remember when the first ipad came out and they were calling it magical.
[6:48] <sqrt[evil]> people have this idea about apple that gets them right over the fact that they're LEARNING A WHOLE NEW OS
[6:48] <piless> techman2: It's like how they don't let you change the message tones on the iphone so when one goes off on the train everyone checks their phone. They probably have a huge team of psychologists analysing everything
[6:48] <sqrt[evil]> these are the same people that whined when windows 7 came out because it would be different
[6:48] <des2> Yeah I had a lot of fun with the 'magical'.
[6:49] <des2> Hey I was able to get my 7 to look almost exactly like XP.
[6:49] <des2> So I'm happy.
[6:49] <sqrt[evil]> also the general public loves to compare their $1500 macs with the last $400 laptop they broke
[6:49] <GabrialDestruir> Eh, Mac is a lot easier to learn than say linux or something :p
[6:49] <piless> sqrt[evil]: Nobody whined when 7 came out, you're thinking of vista
[6:49] <Flea86> des2: Perhaps they'll simply re-release xp to run on current x86 'ultra low power' silicon so that it may run anywhere rofl
[6:49] <sqrt[evil]> piless: lots of people whined. i still have users on XP because they don't want to upgrade.
[6:49] <techman2> piless: I can change the tone on my iphone.
[6:50] <piless> techman2: Only to the ones that come with it
[6:50] <techman2> piless: ah, yeah.
[6:50] <des2> sqrt tell them you can make 7 look/function almost exactly like XP
[6:50] <GabrialDestruir> I think the one thing I could give up Windows for a Mac, if I could, would be that Mac doesn't install most applications over half the OS
[6:50] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[6:50] <sqrt[evil]> i can, but that's not really the point
[6:50] <piless> techman2: And there's not that many of them, anyone can tell an iphone message tone..
[6:50] <sqrt[evil]> they're so afraid of it
[6:50] <sqrt[evil]> but then they go out and buy a mac
[6:50] <sqrt[evil]> without a second thought
[6:51] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Best of both worlds, windows 7 runs perfectly fine on mac hardware
[6:51] <sqrt[evil]> it's really frustrating. i don't like the Mac OS
[6:51] <GabrialDestruir> Yea, but Mac doesn't work so perfectly on regular PC hardware :p
[6:51] <GabrialDestruir> There's always issues
[6:51] <techman2> I always laugh when our customers go out and buy new macs with outlook 2011 and then want to hook them up their old exchange 03 boxes.
[6:52] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Yeah, it only goes one way. You're thinking of a hackintosh
[6:52] <sqrt[evil]> piless: well, perfectly fine is a bit of a stretch, the drivers are kind of crap
[6:52] <sqrt[evil]> and for the money, if you don't need OSX, a thinkpad is a better buy
[6:52] <des2> Well they just don't have the drivers for lots of non-mac hardware.
[6:52] <techman2> they always ask whether it can be done after they've bought it.
[6:52] <sqrt[evil]> techman2: lol
[6:52] <des2> I just wonder how Microsoft is gonna get Windows on the PRi.
[6:52] <piless> sqrt[evil]: Windows 7 drivers for mac hardware?
[6:52] <GabrialDestruir> o.O
[6:52] <sqrt[evil]> piless: yeah
[6:53] <GabrialDestruir> Microsoft on Pi?
[6:53] <GabrialDestruir> That sounds doubtful .-.
[6:53] <techman2> des2: they could port win CE ;)
[6:53] <piless> wince would work
[6:53] * sqrt[evil] shudders
[6:53] <mrdragons> And sadly, people will probably use it. :\
[6:53] <des2> Don't understate Microsoft's desire to control the world...
[6:54] <piless> Microsoft will only allow windows 8 arm on hardware with a locked bootloader fyi
[6:54] <sqrt[evil]> they seem a lot more laid back about that than they were in the 90s...
[6:54] <GabrialDestruir> I can't see them going so far as trying to put windows on pi
[6:54] <sqrt[evil]> these days i'm much more worried about Apple controlling the world
[6:54] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@cpe-66-68-12-24.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[6:54] <mrdragons> Meh, apple's not that bad.
[6:54] <GabrialDestruir> Apple is totally 1984ing people.
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[6:55] * PiBot sets mode +v puffin6
[6:55] <des2> I think Apple are too much control freaks to control the world.
[6:55] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Huxley is more feasible scenario than 1984
[6:56] <GabrialDestruir> Nah...
[6:56] <GabrialDestruir> Apple could totally go 1984.... just wait for iPhones to continue growing in numbers....
[6:56] <piless> Control with disinformation is more likely to happen than control with lack of information
[6:56] <GabrialDestruir> slap on some mass hypnosis....
[6:56] * puffin6 (~gav@196-210-242-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[6:56] <GabrialDestruir> You've got the world at your feet :p
[6:57] <sqrt[evil]> well, they've already got the mass hypnosis thing down!
[6:57] <des2> iPhone isn't gaining market share since android.
[6:57] <mrdragons> They're not particularly evil though.
[6:57] <piless> GabrialDestruir: I can totally foresee the world going the way of companies replacing entire countries
[6:57] <sqrt[evil]> mrdragons: roflmfao
[6:57] <GabrialDestruir> Syndicate much?
[6:57] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[6:59] <GabrialDestruir> But no, Apple has already tried to patent or did patent the ability to use a phones Mic/Camera/Other Sensors, to listen in on/watch/detect Biorythms of users, supposedly for "User Data Safety"
[7:00] <piless> http://i.imgur.com/PSzej.jpg
[7:00] <sqrt[evil]> lol yeah, that one was a couple weeks ago
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[7:00] <des2> Ironic that Apple is so much the big brother they parodied in the 1984 connercial.
[7:01] <sqrt[evil]> thought i don't think clarkson understands what copyright is :P
[7:01] <piless> GabrialDestruir: Every phone has to legally have a backdoor for the government to listen in, even when off.
[7:01] <mrdragons> Oh yeah, forgot about apple inventing rectangles and touch screens
[7:01] <mrdragons> XD
[7:01] <piless> samsung should totally have gone with a triangular tablet
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[7:01] <sqrt[evil]> i was hoping for a hexagon
[7:01] * PiBot sets mode +v jolo2
[7:02] <GabrialDestruir> The idea being that if it worked out they could use all that to detect when a person who wasn't "authorized" to use the phone used it, take pictures, get audio, at the COMPANIES choosing
[7:02] <GabrialDestruir> not the government but Apple
[7:02] <GabrialDestruir> then they could download all your data to their servers, disable and wipe the phone, etc.
[7:03] <GabrialDestruir> All without user intervention.
[7:03] <piless> GabrialDestruir: I suppose they could use it to keep sensitive information from being lost. My government is always leaving top secret pendrives on trains
[7:03] <Flea86> GabrialDestruir: What makes you think they're not already playing the big brother role now? ;-0
[7:03] <sqrt[evil]> encrypt everything.
[7:03] <GabrialDestruir> Apple is always playing the big brother role. :p
[7:04] <sqrt[evil]> we shoudl have been doing so a decade ago
[7:04] <GabrialDestruir> Takes to long to encrypt/decrypt everything for daily use
[7:04] <piless> sqrt[evil]: infeasible
[7:04] <sqrt[evil]> eh? encryption is basically free and has been for a long time
[7:05] <sqrt[evil]> it's feasible, just no large company has decided to push for it
[7:05] <des2> Encryption is restricted due to government actions.
[7:05] <des2> In the US encryption is classified as a munition.
[7:05] <GabrialDestruir> Right... but encrypthing everything and decrypting it all in a few seconds for use.... just won't work.
[7:06] <GabrialDestruir> ecrypting*
[7:06] <sqrt[evil]> i don't know what you're talking about. there is no noticeable performance penalty for encrypting everything.
[7:06] <GabrialDestruir> ffs
[7:06] <sqrt[evil]> but i'm more thinking about things like email
[7:07] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Quit: rebooting)
[7:08] * piless (5ec40a3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.196.10.60) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:10] <GabrialDestruir> Eh, email you're usually not sending huge files.
[7:13] <GabrialDestruir> Bah, I'm bored with all these MegaPixel Cameras....
[7:13] <sqrt[evil]> wnat to go back to a KiloPixel camera?
[7:13] <GabrialDestruir> give me a phone with a gigapixel >.>
[7:13] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[7:13] <sqrt[evil]> lol
[7:13] * kdnewton (~waggy@S01060c607607263d.ok.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:13] <sqrt[evil]> i was actually just here yesterday...
[7:13] <sqrt[evil]> http://www.gigapixel.com/image/gigapan-fairview-dusk.html
[7:15] <GabrialDestruir> See.... I want a phone where I can do that....
[7:15] <GabrialDestruir> take a picture of like....
[7:15] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[7:15] <sqrt[evil]> hate to break it to you, but there's this thing called physics
[7:16] <GabrialDestruir> -sighs- I know.... one day we'll break physics though!
[7:16] <GabrialDestruir> Just you watch
[7:16] <sqrt[evil]> can't wait
[7:16] <GabrialDestruir> Still.... if we could somehow fit a gigapixel camera into a phone? That'd be awesome .-.
[7:17] <sqrt[evil]> i'd rather have decent lenses first :P
[7:17] <GabrialDestruir> Though I see it going horribly bad.... something like taking a picture of your friend....
[7:17] <GabrialDestruir> and being able to zoom in and see every single pore
[7:18] <GabrialDestruir> I think I'd rather a Lytro "lense"
[7:18] <GabrialDestruir> Something where you could go in and adjust the focus later
[7:18] <sqrt[evil]> that'd be really neat
[7:19] <cjbaird> Wideband light detectors? .. Infraread through to Ultraviolet.. I want my X-Ray Spex (or camera). :)
[7:19] <GabrialDestruir> lol, there was actually an article I read, where they talked about how Night Vision lenses and stuff were finally getting to a point where they could be used in phones
[7:19] <sqrt[evil]> hehe, well i think most sensors are pretty sensitive at IR
[7:19] <sqrt[evil]> and maybe at UV as well
[7:20] <sqrt[evil]> but filtered...they make pictures look funny
[7:20] <cjbaird> yeah, there's a filter in current cameras.
[7:20] <sqrt[evil]> maybe add a fourth element with an IR colour filter
[7:20] <sqrt[evil]> that'd be cool
[7:21] <GabrialDestruir> Pretty sure all modern day cameras have a filter, not so sure you'll find a lot of phones with IR, and UV, mostly because there isn't a huge market for it .-.
[7:21] <cjbaird> Flickr has examples of 'IR photography', where someone has removed the filter film over the detector, and then had a IR-passthrough filter lens
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[7:24] <GabrialDestruir> google search is still dead for me -le sigh-
[7:24] <cjbaird> Maybe you've been banned for asking questions that're too stupid? :)
[7:24] <des2> Do you really need to search for porn ?
[7:24] <GabrialDestruir> Well dratz....
[7:25] <GabrialDestruir> I knew I shouldn't of asked Google to Divide by Zero
[7:25] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[7:26] <des2> You can do arithmetic in the search field
[7:27] <GabrialDestruir> Yea :p
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[7:28] <piofcube> yeah and ++ returns no results also ;-)
[7:29] <GabrialDestruir> apparently nasa is wasting money on video games in space .-.
[7:30] <piofcube> if I were in space, video games would be the last thing on my mind LOL
[7:30] <GabrialDestruir> Angry Birds Space is being pushed by Nasa
[7:30] <GabrialDestruir> in space....
[7:30] <des2> I was in a store today (Rite-Aid) and I saw Angry Birds candy.
[7:31] <GabrialDestruir> There's an Angry Bird Facebook edition though..
[7:31] <GabrialDestruir> So I'm not sure which I hate more
[7:31] <GabrialDestruir> Angry Birds or Facebook
[7:33] <des2> http://laughingsquid.com/angry-birds-fruit-gummies/
[7:33] <des2> Enough with the angry products already.
[7:34] <sqrt[evil]> mmmm candy
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[8:37] <techman2> hmm
[8:37] <techman2> conversation has gone quiet
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[8:46] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[8:49] * puffin6 (~gav@196-210-242-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[8:49] * puffin6 (~gav@196-210-242-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:49] * PiBot sets mode +v puffin6
[8:52] * neciO (~juan@d51A44524.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:52] * PiBot sets mode +v neciO
[8:57] * markus__ (~markus@h-35-55.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[8:57] * markus___ (~markus@h-35-55.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:01] <Lord_DeathMatch> techman: maybe they all live in the same timezone?
[9:01] <techman2> maybe
[9:01] <Lord_DeathMatch> dunno
[9:01] <Lord_DeathMatch> im in +8
[9:01] <Lord_DeathMatch> you?
[9:01] <techman2> same
[9:01] <Lord_DeathMatch> righteo
[9:01] <sqrt[evil]> -8!
[9:01] <Lord_DeathMatch> ha!
[9:02] <techman2> sqrt[evil]: I am coming to you from the future!
[9:02] <Lord_DeathMatch> how is yesterday looking? (i think?)
[9:02] <Lord_DeathMatch> oh, future
[9:02] <sqrt[evil]> what are tomorrow's lottery numbers?
[9:02] <Dagger2> ??0 here; looks like we have the globe covered
[9:02] <sqrt[evil]> 7-11 is still open!
[9:03] <techman2> 1,3,4+e8,-987,0.2
[9:03] <Lord_DeathMatch> :D all around the world :D
[9:03] <techman2> sound good?
[9:03] <sqrt[evil]> <3 internets
[9:03] <Lord_DeathMatch> yup
[9:03] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:03] * PiBot sets mode +v cosh
[9:05] * MooseEh (~MooseEh@96.49.107.205) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[9:17] * kasperl (~kasperl@5249618C.cm-4-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:17] * PiBot sets mode +v kasperl
[9:18] <techman2> wonder if there's anything interesting going on in the forums..
[9:26] * DataSpree (~DataSpree@ip72-204-12-32.fv.ks.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[9:27] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:27] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[9:27] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.81.202) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:27] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@91.85.220.26) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:27] * PiBot sets mode +v Tomtiger11
[9:33] <techman2> it appears not.
[9:35] * earthshine (~Mike@cpc1-orpi1-0-0-cust99.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: earthshine)
[9:35] * jzaw (~jzaw@macbook.dzki.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:35] * PiBot sets mode +v jzaw
[9:37] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@91.85.220.26) Quit (Changing host)
[9:37] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@Tom4u/founder/tomtiger11) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Tomtiger11
[9:41] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:41] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[9:41] * earthshine (~Mike@cpc1-orpi1-0-0-cust99.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:41] * PiBot sets mode +v earthshine
[9:50] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:50] * PiBot sets mode +v Faperdaper
[9:50] * techman2 edits wiki
[9:51] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@Tom4u/founder/tomtiger11) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[9:54] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:54] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: Station breakdown)
[9:58] * MrWatson (~MrW@184.53.134.111) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:58] * PiBot sets mode +v MrWatson
[9:58] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[9:58] * phoque (~nils@nrbg-4d073563.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:58] * PiBot sets mode +v phoque
[9:59] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[9:59] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.84.20) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:59] * PiBot sets mode +v EiN_
[10:01] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:01] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[10:03] * arnd (~arnd@HSI-KBW-46-223-44-216.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[10:10] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:10] * PiBot sets mode +v joeka
[10:11] * victhor (~victhor@187.113.169.223) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:11] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[10:11] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[10:12] * Guest18615 (yang@jazz.linuxshell.org) Quit (Changing host)
[10:12] * Guest18615 (yang@freenode/sponsor/cacert.assurer.yang) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Guest18615
[10:12] * Guest18615 is now known as yang
[10:14] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:14] * PiBot sets mode +v sraue
[10:17] * Kostic (~Kostic@net136-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:17] * PiBot sets mode +v Kostic
[10:18] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:18] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[10:21] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:21] * PiBot sets mode +v katnegermis
[10:21] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[10:25] * mrdragons (~lucas@c-98-204-135-73.hsd1.md.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[10:29] * mrdragons (~lucas@c-98-204-135-73.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:29] * PiBot sets mode +v mrdragons
[10:32] * kdnewton (~waggy@S01060c607607263d.ok.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[10:33] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@91.85.220.26) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:33] * PiBot sets mode +v Tomtiger11
[10:33] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@91.85.220.26) Quit (Client Quit)
[10:37] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[10:38] * Tykling (tykling@gibfest.dk) Quit (Excess Flood)
[10:41] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:41] * PiBot sets mode +v NIN101
[10:41] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:41] * PiBot sets mode +v discomeats
[10:45] * EiN_ is now known as EiNSTeiN_
[10:45] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@205.233.84.20) Quit (Changing host)
[10:45] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:45] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[10:46] * Tykling (tykling@gibfest.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:46] * PiBot sets mode +v Tykling
[10:48] * unreal-dude (~pcnate@tripwire.is-very-evil.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:48] * PiBot sets mode +v unreal-dude
[10:48] * Axman6 (~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:52] * victhor (~victhor@187.113.169.223) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[10:58] * dolce_venere (~dolce_ven@host47-22-dynamic.251-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:58] * PiBot sets mode +v dolce_venere
[10:58] * dolce_venere (~dolce_ven@host47-22-dynamic.251-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has left #raspberrypi
[10:59] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:59] * PiBot sets mode +v skrock
[10:59] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:59] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[11:01] * HienoMies (HienoMies@84-231-7-247.elisa-mobile.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:01] * PiBot sets mode +v HienoMies
[11:02] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:02] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[11:03] <HienoMies> make my day, show me some Pi
[11:04] <weasel> 3.14159265359
[11:04] <HienoMies> mmmmm, nice
[11:05] <courpse> pwnt.
[11:13] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:14] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:14] * PiBot sets mode +v NIN101
[11:17] * Enoria (~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:18] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.137.158) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:18] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D
[11:19] * christinepea777 (janeapple@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wyczltapsjpxyuqd) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:19] * PiBot sets mode +v christinepea777
[11:20] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:20] * PiBot sets mode +v chod
[11:20] * jiqissc (~ssc-1@114.254.73.82) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:20] * PiBot sets mode +v jiqissc
[11:21] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:21] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[11:23] * jiqi (~ssc-1@114.254.73.82) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:30] * uen| is now known as uen
[11:34] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host23-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
[11:43] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:43] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:44] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:44] * PiBot sets mode +v discomeats
[11:45] * pitillo (~pitillo@unaffiliated/pitillo) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:46] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host23-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:46] * PiBot sets mode +v iccanobif
[11:49] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host23-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
[11:49] * arnd (~arnd@HSI-KBW-46-223-44-216.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:49] * PiBot sets mode +v arnd
[11:50] * pitillo (~pitillo@127.Red-83-35-225.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:50] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[11:51] * koda (~vittorio@host174-212-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:51] * PiBot sets mode +v koda
[11:51] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host23-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:51] * PiBot sets mode +v iccanobif
[11:52] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host23-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
[11:54] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host23-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:54] * PiBot sets mode +v iccanobif
[11:57] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:58] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[11:58] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:58] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[12:04] * ringz (~mgc_1955@cpc16-cove11-2-0-cust716.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:04] * PiBot sets mode +v ringz
[12:09] * ringz (~mgc_1955@cpc16-cove11-2-0-cust716.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[12:10] * PiBot sets mode +v DDave
[12:10] * Christian9 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:10] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian9
[12:14] * datagutt (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:14] * PiBot sets mode +v datagutt
[12:14] * datagutt (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) Quit (Changing host)
[12:14] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:14] * PiBot sets mode +v datagutt
[12:19] <rm> > We've sent them back to have the jacks desoldered and replaced.
[12:19] <rm> what
[12:19] <rm> all the way to China?
[12:19] <courpse> lol.
[12:19] <courpse> Good stuff.
[12:23] <koda> should take a couple of days only to send it back
[12:23] <courpse> And worth it.
[12:23] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.137.158) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[12:23] <courpse> (ofcourse)
[12:24] * puffin6 (~gav@196-210-242-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) has left #raspberrypi
[12:24] * pitillo (~pitillo@127.Red-83-35-225.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:24] * Kostic (~Kostic@net136-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[12:25] <rm> it took who-knows-how-long to get them here in the first place
[12:25] <courpse> Sure.
[12:25] <rm> now they ship back to have a minor detail fixed
[12:25] <courpse> 0.o
[12:25] <rm> can't UK even solder at all, anymore? :)
[12:25] * MrWatson (~MrW@184.53.134.111) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:25] <courpse> anymore?
[12:26] <courpse> Haven't you read the labels from your electronics?
[12:26] <courpse> Made in....
[12:26] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@245-22.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:26] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy_
[12:27] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@x1-6-00-22-75-b5-3e-92.k353.webspeed.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:27] * PiBot sets mode +v katnegermis
[12:27] <alk_> rm guess they don't want to pay twice
[12:28] <rm> it could have been possible to negotiate a discount for the next batch of boards
[12:28] <rm> due to these coming not to spec
[12:28] <rm> now they probably have to pay shipping both ways
[12:28] <alk_> maybe they don't
[12:28] <alk_> :)
[12:28] <alk_> or maybe they do
[12:28] <alk_> hehe
[12:29] <rm> and in any case, it's time, time, time
[12:29] <courpse> I'm guessing they dont.
[12:30] * pitillo (~pitillo@222.Red-79-159-254.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:30] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[12:30] * pitillo (~pitillo@222.Red-79-159-254.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Changing host)
[12:30] * pitillo (~pitillo@unaffiliated/pitillo) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:30] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[12:34] * Karmeck (~Karmeck@92-33-184-110.tn.glocalnet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Karmeck
[12:35] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@58.165.210.250) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:35] * Christian9 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:35] * Christian9 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian9
[12:36] * Christian10 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian10
[12:36] <techman2> perhaps they could call this batch the Raspberry Pi world tour?
[12:37] <des2> Would be nice if they just informed people where the boards are.
[12:37] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f668822-74736162.cust.telenor.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:37] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f668822-74736162.cust.telenor.se) Quit (Changing host)
[12:37] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[12:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[12:37] <des2> Like: They're in transit from china", "They're in UK customs", etc...
[12:37] <alk_> des2: why don't you tweet that to them
[12:38] <techman2> Liz won't be around much this weekend apparently so I wouldn't expect a response
[12:38] <HienoMies> "They're lost in transit, sorry!"
[12:38] <unreal-dude> they got sent to me
[12:39] <techman2> wow, that'd make quite a bramble.
[12:39] <unreal-dude> all ur PI r belong to meh
[12:39] <unreal-dude> i wish....
[12:39] <courpse> All the broke ones?
[12:39] <unreal-dude> doesnt matter to me
[12:39] * Christian9 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:40] <techman2> apparently most of them are already fixed.
[12:40] <des2> You should see him solder 10,000 jacks - it's unreal.
[12:41] <courpse> lol.
[12:41] <courpse> So is it safer to pre-order any
[12:41] <des2> Safe? As in I don' think RS or Farnell will abscond with your $$$ yes.
[12:41] <courpse> Is the manufacturing compay going to continue to produce for RPF?
[12:42] <techman2> yeah I'd say so
[12:42] <HienoMies> why not?
[12:42] <techman2> Farnell and RS will be using them for manufacture too.
[12:42] <courpse> Did they not just underspec everything?
[12:42] <HienoMies> sure will
[12:42] <courpse> Or was it not intentional?
[12:42] <courpse> Sorry, not everything, but every RP.
[12:42] <HienoMies> sure was intentional
[12:43] <techman2> I don't think we;ll ever know who stuffed up.
[12:43] <HienoMies> intention was to save moneyyyyyyyy
[12:43] <courpse> Seems untrustable.
[12:43] <HienoMies> China-man is China-man
[12:43] <courpse> :/
[12:44] <tntexplosivesltd> hahaha
[12:45] <tntexplosivesltd> damn chinese factory >.>
[12:45] * Karmeck (~Karmeck@92-33-184-110.tn.glocalnet.net) Quit (Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/)
[12:45] <courpse> The company needs to get those kids back to making nike's.
[12:46] <courpse> And let the older kids (9 year olds) make the tech stuff.
[12:46] <HienoMies> yeah
[12:47] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:47] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[12:51] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[12:56] * Axman6 (~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:56] * PiBot sets mode +v Axman6
[12:57] * neciO (~juan@d51A44524.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:58] * pitillo (~pitillo@unaffiliated/pitillo) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[12:59] * pitillo (~pitillo@209.Red-79-151-242.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:59] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[13:00] * neciO (~juan@d51A44264.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] * PiBot sets mode +v neciO
[13:04] * zgreg (greg@78.47.72.107) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[13:04] * zgreg_ (greg@78.47.72.107) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:04] * PiBot sets mode +v zgreg_
[13:05] * zgreg_ (greg@78.47.72.107) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:06] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5695.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:06] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[13:06] * zgreg (greg@78.47.72.107) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:06] * PiBot sets mode +v zgreg
[13:12] * TrueHienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:12] * PiBot sets mode +v TrueHienoMies
[13:12] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[13:15] * HienoMies (HienoMies@84-231-7-247.elisa-mobile.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:17] <_av500_> "... chinese wage slave jumps from factory roof due to r-pi ethernet jack mixup ..."
[13:19] <courpse> 0.o
[13:20] <courpse> So its 3 cents an hour now?
[13:20] <courpse> How dare they...
[13:23] <Henchman21> shouldnt make jokes about that
[13:24] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[13:25] <courpse> :P
[13:26] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002129207010.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:26] * PiBot sets mode +v lars_t_h
[13:27] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[13:28] <alk_> Henchman21++
[13:29] * neciO (~juan@d51A44264.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:30] <mdavey> anyone here from the openelec project?
[13:30] * SeySayux (~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:30] * PiBot sets mode +v SeySayux
[13:31] <_av500_> sraue is presume
[13:31] * neciO (~juan@d51A44524.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:31] * PiBot sets mode +v neciO
[13:31] <_av500_> sraue I presume
[13:32] <courpse> I'd assume so too.
[13:32] <sraue> i too
[13:32] <courpse> lol.
[13:33] <Henchman21> openelec proves you can compile a kernel and rootfs and get a free raspberry pi faster than the 10k 1st orders
[13:34] <Henchman21> :P
[13:35] <TrueHienoMies> sure
[13:35] <TrueHienoMies> go ahead
[13:38] * njh (~njh@ipv6.aelius.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:38] * PiBot sets mode +v njh
[13:39] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[13:39] * Matthew is now known as Guest86060
[13:41] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:41] * PiBot sets mode +v wiiguy
[13:42] * cosner (~cosner@host86-147-252-172.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:42] * PiBot sets mode +v cosner
[13:45] * futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:45] * PiBot sets mode +v futurity
[13:45] * TrueHienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) Quit ()
[13:51] * cosner (~cosner@host86-147-252-172.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[13:52] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-45.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
[13:52] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-8-156-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:52] * PiBot sets mode +v koaschten
[13:53] * barr5790 (~alan@85.210.232.149) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:53] * PiBot sets mode +v barr5790
[13:55] * vinters (irp@shell.daug.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:55] * PiBot sets mode +v vinters
[13:56] <des2> $4 (next 16 hours only) 4 GB Sandisk micro SD card (slow class 2) with SD card adapter which may or may not work with RPi: http://1saleaday.com/wireless/
[13:57] <courpse> lol?
[13:58] <vinters> lol
[14:01] <mjr> likely to work, at least it's not a candidate for the known issue affecting some class 10 cards
[14:01] <chris_99> what's the issue with class 10, mjr?
[14:01] <des2> There's some question as to whether cards in SD adapters will work.
[14:02] <RaYmAn> sdcards tend to be cheaper..I'm not sure why people want to use converters? =P
[14:02] <des2> Cause micro SD cards can be used in many phones
[14:03] <mjr> chris_99, some bootloader bug presumably, see "Problem cards" and the link in http://elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals
[14:03] <Hexxeh> is there a gentoo image yet?
[14:03] <Hexxeh> if so, has anyone got the make.conf for it?
[14:03] <Hexxeh> gonna setup a binhost
[14:03] <chris_99> mjr, interesting thanks
[14:04] * koda (~vittorio@host174-212-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: koda)
[14:06] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host23-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
[14:08] * Nemo7 (nemo@nemo.org.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:10] * Calc (~Calc@c-68-48-50-110.hsd1.md.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:10] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[14:13] * IT_Sean (~IT@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:13] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[14:13] * HienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:13] * PiBot sets mode +v HienoMies
[14:13] <IT_Sean> O/
[14:13] * Calc (~Calc@c-68-48-50-110.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:13] * PiBot sets mode +v Calc
[14:14] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@58.165.210.250) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:14] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[14:14] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[14:16] * sven1994 (~sven1994@p4FC2FA73.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:16] * PiBot sets mode +v sven1994
[14:16] * IT_Sean (~IT@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Client Quit)
[14:16] * koda (~vittorio@host174-212-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:16] * PiBot sets mode +v koda
[14:18] <techman2> I have to keep an eye out for a sd reader and a card or two.
[14:18] * sven1994 (~sven1994@p4FC2FA73.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[14:21] <HienoMies> yeah, hard to find, aint't they
[14:22] <techman2> haha, yeah real difficult.
[14:23] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@58.165.210.250) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[14:24] <HienoMies> If I could get a time machine...
[14:24] <techman2> what would you do?
[14:25] <HienoMies> i would go to day 27/2 and suggest RPF that they add Benny Hills theme song to the static page on launch day.
[14:26] <HienoMies> that would have been awesome!
[14:26] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:26] <techman2> I would rather go back 2 months and tell the RPF that they are going to have several hundred thousand orders on launch day.
[14:29] <techman2> oh well
[14:30] <techman2> shit happens.
[14:30] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:30] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[14:30] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:32] * sven1994 (~sven1994@p4FC2FA73.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:32] * PiBot sets mode +v sven1994
[14:33] * neciO (~juan@d51A44524.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[14:33] <techman2> it's been fairly quiet in here today
[14:34] * Christian10 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[14:34] <HienoMies> let make some
[14:34] <HienoMies> noise!
[14:34] * BCMM runs about screaming then passes out
[14:34] <techman2> noisy buggers.
[14:34] <BCMM> techman2: well, no new news, and no Pis, so...
[14:35] <techman2> quiet down and get off my lawn!
[14:35] <HienoMies> few rumors there and here, and we have a channel full of talk!
[14:35] <techman2> BCMM: that is true
[14:35] <HienoMies> So is it true that Raspi10k batch was lost in transit?
[14:35] <HienoMies> :D
[14:36] <techman2> haha
[14:36] <techman2> I should probably do some more coding I think...
[14:36] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:36] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[14:36] <HienoMies> heard it from trusted source (=China-man)
[14:37] <HienoMies> coding? Naah.
[14:37] <techman2> well I need to make sure I know how to code before I get my pi so when I get it I have no use for it...
[14:37] <HienoMies> just watch some Monty Pythons from ytube
[14:38] <HienoMies> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spv1a5NMyvw&feature=related
[14:38] * ctyler is now known as ctyler-away
[14:39] <techman2> heheh
[14:40] <techman2> learning about passing arrays to functions and pointer notation.
[14:40] * It_sean (c6e4c99f@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] * PiBot sets mode +v It_sean
[14:40] * It_sean peers in
[14:41] * techman2 hides the liquor.
[14:41] * PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) Quit (*.net *.split)
[14:41] * Yesh (~jlipps@c-98-234-53-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
[14:41] * acfrazier (~acfrazier@opensn0w/developer/acfrazier) Quit (*.net *.split)
[14:41] * Pulser (~pulser@VillainROM/staff/Pulser) Quit (*.net *.split)
[14:41] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) Quit (*.net *.split)
[14:41] * Dagger2 (~dagger@sawako.haruhi.eu) Quit (*.net *.split)
[14:41] * AlexanderS (AlexanderS@2a01:4f8:120:7061::5:46a0) Quit (*.net *.split)
[14:41] * cul (~cul@n02.bnc.korkad.nu) Quit (*.net *.split)
[14:41] <DexterLB> meh
[14:41] * Yesh (~jlipps@c-98-234-53-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Yesh
[14:42] * Pulser (~pulser@VillainROM/staff/Pulser) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:42] * PiBot sets mode +v Pulser
[14:42] <It_sean> Aaand I have to go
[14:42] * It_sean (c6e4c99f@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[14:42] * cul (~cul@n02.bnc.korkad.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:42] * PiBot sets mode +v cul
[14:42] <techman2> he didn't stay long.
[14:43] * acfrazier_ (~acfrazier@opensn0w/developer/acfrazier) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:43] * PiBot sets mode +v acfrazier_
[14:43] * Guest65969 (~MagicalTu@w001.de.eu.xta.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Guest65969
[14:44] * Dagger2 (~dagger@sawako.haruhi.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:44] * PiBot sets mode +v Dagger2
[14:45] <des2> cdecl is your friend.
[14:46] <techman2> what is that?
[14:46] <des2> http://cdecl.org/
[14:46] <normod> nice
[14:46] <RaYmAn> a
[14:46] <techman2> wow cool
[14:47] <techman2> thanks.
[14:47] * Guest65969 is now known as MagicalTux
[14:47] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@w001.de.eu.xta.net) Quit (Changing host)
[14:47] * MagicalTux (~MagicalTu@mtgox/staff/MagicalTux) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:47] * PiBot sets mode +v MagicalTux
[14:50] <techman2> any other handy C related sites?
[14:51] <chris_99> how stuff works
[14:51] <chris_99> have a good guide
[14:51] <normod> K&R ftw
[14:52] <techman2> I am actually reading C all in one desk reference for dummies by Dan Gookin
[14:52] <techman2> I've found it to be really good
[14:53] * slaeshjag learnt C without touching a book
[14:54] <techman2> online tutorials?
[14:54] <des2> When I learned C, there was only one book...
[14:55] <slaeshjag> techman2: I can't remember, but probably
[14:55] <techman2> lol
[14:55] <slaeshjag> techman2: That and learning by working with others
[14:55] <mrdragons> I recommend "K & R: the C programming language"
[14:55] <techman2> yeah it's a popular book
[14:56] * HienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) Quit ()
[14:56] * AndyJS (~AJ@unaffiliated/andyjs) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:57] <techman2> I do have another old one here called "A book on C" by Al Kelley and Ira Pohl
[14:57] <techman2> it reads much more like a textbook though.
[14:57] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[14:57] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[14:58] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@58.165.210.250) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[14:58] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:58] * PiBot sets mode +v andatche
[14:58] <techman2> seems to be from about 89/90 when ANSI C was new.
[14:59] <mrdragons> I keep forgetting just how old C is
[15:00] <weasel> just try some string handling :)
[15:00] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[15:00] * dormant (~dormant@d54C1A06E.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:00] * PiBot sets mode +v dormant
[15:00] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:00] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[15:00] <techman2> yeah it's quite old
[15:01] <techman2> it's nice to be somewhat close to the hardware though
[15:05] * Christian10 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:05] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian10
[15:05] <techman2> heh, some of the stuff I'm learning about has been removed in the C11 standard.
[15:05] <techman2> i.e gets()
[15:05] <mrdragons> Heh, yeah, don't use gets. :P
[15:05] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:05] * PiBot sets mode +v Compy
[15:06] <mrdragons> Buffer overflows everywhere.
[15:06] * PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@mcmyadm.in) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] * PiBot sets mode +v PhonicUK
[15:06] * PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@mcmyadm.in) Quit (Changing host)
[15:06] * PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] * PiBot sets mode +v PhonicUK
[15:06] <techman2> yeah I'm not at the stage about having to worry about things like that.
[15:06] <slaeshjag> techman2: fgets is pretty much a drop-in replacement. It needs two more arguments, both of which you should know
[15:07] <techman2> stage of sorry
[15:07] <techman2> right
[15:09] * Christian10 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[15:11] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[15:12] * jiqissc (~ssc-1@114.254.73.82) Quit ()
[15:14] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[15:15] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@245-22.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[15:17] * Guest86060 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:19] * neciO (~juan@d51A44524.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:19] * PiBot sets mode +v neciO
[15:31] * futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: futurity)
[15:32] * Christian10 (~christian@p57A3D1D0.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian10
[15:32] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:41] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-105-242.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:42] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[15:44] * MenDin (~Win@109.123.117.122) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:44] * PiBot sets mode +v MenDin
[15:48] * roteiro (~roteiro@dslb-178-004-225-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:48] * PiBot sets mode +v roteiro
[15:48] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:48] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[15:57] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[15:59] * Sanitoeter (~freenode@unaffiliated/sanitoeter) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Sanitoeter
[16:04] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@247-162.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:04] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy_
[16:05] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:05] * PiBot sets mode +v tr-808
[16:11] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[16:14] * acfrazier_ (~acfrazier@opensn0w/developer/acfrazier) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:15] <techman2> time for sleep
[16:15] * techman2 (~gj@121.209.129.135) Quit (Quit: No matter what happens, there is always someone who knew it would.)
[16:15] * xoft (~xoft@115-64-138-212.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:15] * PiBot sets mode +v xoft
[16:18] * acfrazier (~acfrazier@opensn0w/developer/acfrazier) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:18] * PiBot sets mode +v acfrazier
[16:22] * xoft (~xoft@115-64-138-212.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:26] * Guest91611 (~DooMMaste@2002:86a9:ac01:affe:5604:a6ff:fe85:a556) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:26] * PiBot sets mode +v Guest91611
[16:30] * awakefield (~awakefiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:30] * PiBot sets mode +v awakefield
[16:33] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:33] * PiBot sets mode +v DDave
[16:33] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:34] * imnichol (~ian@8.24.97.104) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:34] * PiBot sets mode +v imnichol
[16:35] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:35] * awakefield (~awakefiel@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust975.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) has left #raspberrypi
[16:42] * imnichol (~ian@8.24.97.104) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[16:45] <Thorn_> Do farnell accept vista electron?
[16:45] <Thorn_> erm
[16:45] <Thorn_> visa electron
[16:46] <rm> unlikely
[16:47] * Calc (~Calc@c-68-48-50-110.hsd1.md.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[16:47] * ObliqueTroll (~n800@85.210.102.220) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:47] * PiBot sets mode +v ObliqueTroll
[16:47] <Thorn_> seems they dont
[16:47] <Thorn_> lame
[16:48] <ObliqueTroll> what don't they?
[16:48] <Thorn_> farnell don't accept visa electron
[16:49] <ObliqueTroll> oh, i see
[16:52] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:58] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:58] * PiBot sets mode +v qptain_Nemo
[16:58] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[16:59] * Netlynx (~jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Netlynx
[17:00] * christinepea777 is now known as christinepea777a
[17:03] * Guest66391 (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:03] * mikey_w (~mike@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:04] * AidyFS (aidy@loathe.me.uk) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[17:04] * steinB (~local@84.48.125.93) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:04] * PiBot sets mode +v steinB
[17:06] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@58.165.210.250) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:07] * AidyFS (aidy@loathe.me.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:07] * PiBot sets mode +v AidyFS
[17:09] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:09] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[17:09] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@58.165.210.250) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:09] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[17:10] * piless (5ec5488e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.197.72.142) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:10] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[17:17] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:18] * prebz (~prebz@c80-217-223-132.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:18] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[17:18] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:18] * PiBot sets mode +v discomeats
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[17:52] <EricHerman> I read "the Cambridge-based Raspberry Pi Foundation, is even planning to release the schematics and board designs for the Raspberry Pi, although the foundation's director Eben Upton has cautioned that the architecture of the device will make it very difficult for people to build the devices themselves." at http://www.silicon.com/technology/hardware/2011/10/03/raspberry-pi-cheat-sheet-39748024/ any more news on that?
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[17:53] <ShiftPlusOne2> nope, that's about it
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[18:34] <carli2> hi
[18:34] <carli2> how big will the second batch be?
[18:35] <haltdef> they'll be built to match demand
[18:35] <carli2> how big is that demand currently?
[18:35] <haltdef> last I heard there was a combined build order of 100k
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[18:36] <carli2> are demands > 100 counted, too?
[18:37] <Thorn_> dont have any way to order one, sucks
[18:37] <haltdef> I've just ordered a pandaboard
[18:37] <haltdef> not that much more expensive
[18:37] * haltdef lies to self
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[18:37] <carli2> everything is more expensive than an raspi
[18:38] <haltdef> ??177 including the recommended PSU for it
[18:38] <Thorn_> bout the same price as farnells shipping fees
[18:38] <carli2> even small thin clients from china cost about $50
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[18:42] <carli2> when raspberry pi is charity, why don't they release the pcb designs and everything that every manufacturer can start building raspis (which will be more expensive then)
[18:42] <haltdef> that's the plan
[18:43] <haltdef> I don't think anyone will be able to build their own at that price though
[18:43] <carli2> chinese can, if they want
[18:43] <carli2> but only if they want. there has to be a market that sets the price
[18:43] <haltdef> also they'd need to manufacture a *lot* to get broadcom not to laugh at them
[18:44] <carli2> but $35 boars that you cannot order are no market.
[18:44] <haltdef> wonder if we'll see any halfassed clones
[18:44] <haltdef> lower end SoC than the broadcom :P
[18:45] <carli2> imo raspi is too slow for ubuntu
[18:45] <jojo> they would probably take all the protection circuitry out to save a few more cents as well
[18:45] <carli2> or at least too slow for Xorg.
[18:45] <haltdef> ubuntu is not compiled for the instruction set the arm core uses, so it just won't work
[18:46] <haltdef> X11 will need a driver before it's usable I'd say
[18:46] <carli2> X11 design is bad. look at wayland, they do it better
[18:46] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:46] <carli2> x11 is for mainframes, not for embedded systems or end user machines
[18:47] <haltdef> ...
[18:47] <slaeshjag> I like x11
[18:47] <weasel> it has its drawbacks, but it works.
[18:47] <slaeshjag> I don't like the design of wayland
[18:47] <weasel> when everything else is just vaporware or less
[18:48] <carli2> xrdp is nice, too. using x11 with a gtk application and not xclock or xterm is much more overhead than a modern rdp protocol
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[18:48] <mjr> I don't mind switching to wayland at some point, but it's not for production use yet. X11 it is, it's not perfect, but it's quite okay.
[18:50] <carli2> the problem with X is 3d rendering and video playback. the x11 protocol is a unused set of complex line stipple draw operations and a frequently used set of methods to punch holes into the display to view direct rendering, yuv layers, videos, 3d
[18:50] <carli2> x11 is not that what it was to designed
[18:51] <carli2> and don't forget how compositing works
[18:51] <carli2> the compositor is a big big window over the whole screen that is privileged to screenshot all windows
[18:52] <carli2> and there is no protectino at all. every X client can be a key logger
[18:52] <jojo> yes, all the solid line and polygon crap is basically dead code
[18:52] <jojo> even 2d apps use images for everything
[18:52] <carli2> and this old code can never be removed
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[18:54] <carli2> wayland is also driver independend. a proprietary x11 driver has to implement all the line stipple functions; for wayland, a proprietary vendor only needs to implement a shared buffer and EGL
[18:54] <GobShite> has anyone actualy got one yet ?
[18:54] <carli2> gow what?
[18:54] <carli2> "got what?"
[18:54] <GobShite> a pi
[18:54] <Thorn_> cant order one
[18:55] <carli2> 10 ppl or more got one
[18:55] <Thorn_> ill wait for people to start seling them on ebay
[18:56] <carli2> then you will have to pay about $200 up
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[18:56] <Thorn_> no way
[18:56] <Thorn_> not once supply & demand is met in a few months
[18:56] <carli2> the first pandoras cost $2000 on ebay, because production was too slow
[18:57] <Thorn_> the ebay prices will be around the same as farnell/rs prices
[18:57] <carli2> dream on
[18:57] <GobShite> could have made me own in 8 months, with an A9 with a gig O ram
[18:57] <carli2> on demand availability is expensive
[18:57] <Thorn_> there isnt that much demand for pi so it wont be hard
[18:58] <Thorn_> the idiots that bought one and realised it wont run windows will get rid of them cheap on ebay
[18:58] <mjr> did somebody actually buy a pandora for $2000 or did people just try to sell it at that? :]
[18:58] <carli2> the open pandora has a lot of programs to "get it now and help to finance the project"
[18:58] <GobShite> can get 10 4 layer boards prototyped for 250$
[18:59] <carli2> GobShite: where?
[18:59] <GobShite> seems to me the problems is sourcing the kit to do the job at a knocked down price to justify the 3$ price mark
[18:59] <GobShite> srr 30$
[18:59] <carli2> GobShite: and you need technical knowledge of pcb designs and how to talk to manufacturers; i don't believe you can get 10 proto pis for that price
[19:00] <GobShite> google is your friend
[19:02] <carli2> GobShite: i googled for "can get 10 4 layer boards prototyped for 250$", but there was no manufacturer
[19:02] <GobShite> wuts that a copy of Altium Designer a 6 pack O beer and a few hours @ the comp when the kids is in bed
[19:03] <zgreg> carli2: it's not quite that easy with wayland. for example, wayland needs a mesa-proprietary extension to egl
[19:04] <carli2> zgreg: which graphics chip are you talking about?
[19:04] <zgreg> carli2: IMO a "X12" would be much more useful than to start from scratch
[19:04] <zgreg> carli2: I'm referring to software, not hardware
[19:05] <carli2> zgreg: I built the whole graphics stack from source, so where was that proprietary mesa module? you mean ATIs firmware that was loaded from the kernel?
[19:05] <GobShite> srr i was wrong on that price 360$
[19:05] <GobShite> http://www.pcbexpress.com/products/prices.php#4pricing
[19:06] <zgreg> carli2: I have no idea what you're talking about
[19:06] <GobShite> makeing your own pi
[19:06] <GobShite> but with an A9
[19:06] <Tobias|> You can't just buy an existing A9 board?
[19:07] <zgreg> earlier you said that wayland was independent of graphics driver, et cetera. that's not exactly true.
[19:07] <GobShite> sure
[19:07] <Tobias|> i.e. the pandaboard?
[19:07] <GobShite> expensive tho a
[19:07] <carli2> GobShite: the PCBs. and where do I get the pick'n place machines and the smd components from? that's too much work and will definitely be more expensive than $200 on ebay
[19:07] <Tobias|> GobShite: and making your own isn't? <_<"
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[19:08] <GobShite> you want me to teach you how to use the internet ?
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[19:08] <carli2> zgreg: i'm talking about wayland. you said, it needs a proprietary module, but I built the whole gfx stack from source and it was not true
[19:08] <carli2> GobShite: I said, raspis will be more expensive than $200 for prototyping them
[19:08] <zgreg> carli2: err, no. it uses an extension that is proprietary in the sense that it isn't documented and only available in mesa.
[19:09] <carli2> zgreg: mesa implements the wayland protocol. do you mean that?
[19:09] <victhor> pi isn't 4 layer, I think it has more layers
[19:09] <victhor> one of the front page posts mentions that they couldn't do the board in 4 layers
[19:10] <GobShite> yer but from start to 1st prototype isnt 8 months
[19:10] <zgreg> carli2: no!
[19:10] <zgreg> carli2: the point, wayland does not work with any opengl es implementation
[19:10] <zgreg> at the moment, it needs very specific features and
[19:10] <victhor> and I never heard of 6 layer prototyping services. I have seen 4 layer though
[19:10] <zgreg> basically only works on mesa-based opengl es
[19:11] <GobShite> http://www.pcbexpress.com/products/prices.php#6pricing
[19:11] <GobShite> 6 layer
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[19:13] <GobShite> can get full service PCB & Assembly & parts in as little as 72 hours from payment
[19:14] <carli2> GobShite: are you able to run a full production of raspis for a good price?
[19:14] <carli2> (with contacting enterprises, organizing shipment)
[19:14] <GobShite> define good price ?
[19:14] <carli2> < $70
[19:14] <GobShite> lol
[19:15] <carli2> quantity 10.000
[19:15] <GobShite> yer if you want to order a few 100,000
[19:15] <carli2> why did the raspi foundation produce 10.000 for $35/each?
[19:15] <GobShite> have they ?
[19:15] <GobShite> i didnt see one yet
[19:16] <GobShite> i heard lots about them, and im looking forward to having my pre order one,,
[19:16] <zgreg> supposedly they have special deals with broadcom, and likely others
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[19:16] <Kushan> carli2 because that was how much they could do in the first batch
[19:16] <Kushan> they didn't have unlimited funds
[19:17] <Kushan> and they probably figured that it was all they needed to drum up enough interest to get big distributers involved
[19:17] <zgreg> and those "special deals" allow them to produce raspis cheap even at this low volum,e just 10k
[19:17] <Kushan> that, too
[19:18] <GobShite> well if pi got the orders they talking about, then im sure the "Big Boys" will soon "take out" the competition
[19:18] <carli2> so broadcom is kind to charity
[19:18] <zgreg> but maybe that's not true and they've just waited for interest to grow, so that it can be produced in larger volume and cheaper
[19:19] <GobShite> i think its doable at that price, but personaly i would have 80$ if it had an A9 on the thing
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[19:20] <carli2> GobShite: at what price would you organize a 10.000 batch?
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[19:21] <zgreg> GobShite: well, if you can talk broadcom into spinning a special SoC for you... LOL
[19:21] <carli2> there could be a cheap pandaboard alternative without all these camera and debug port and s-video ports
[19:21] <GobShite> yer lol
[19:21] <zgreg> that's the problem, you can't simply build a system out of a SoC that has exactly the feature you need and want
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[19:22] <zgreg> even a cortex-a8 would be a huge improvement over the arm11
[19:23] <GobShite> my point
[19:23] <zgreg> people just don't understand how slow it is, they just see 700 MHz and assume it won't perform so bad
[19:23] <slaeshjag> zgreg: Well, maybe not huge, but a noticable upgrade
[19:24] <Kushan> slow?
[19:24] <zgreg> slaeshjag: it's a huge improvement for two reasons
[19:24] <Kushan> COnsider the price tag, it's NOT that slow
[19:24] <Kushan> And besides, you forget that the actual purpose of the Pi is to teach programming
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[19:24] <zgreg> a) full compatibility with contemporary ARM distributions (everyone is focusing on ARMv7 these days)
[19:24] <Kushan> it has nice graphics, what more do kids want?
[19:24] <zgreg> b) NEON SIMD
[19:24] <carli2> did you ever used a 700MHz ARM chip for working with 1280x720 Xorg gnome?
[19:24] <GobShite> Yer just enough snot to play HD @1080 without stuttering :D
[19:25] <slaeshjag> zgreg: GCC is crap at using NEON anyway, so it won't make much of a difference in general
[19:25] <haltdef> zgreg, what x86 processor would you compare dual core cortex a9 at 1.2ghz to?
[19:25] <carli2> 700MHz is not enough for a 60Hz eye working with a colorful desktop GUI
[19:25] <zgreg> slaeshjag: there's quite a bit of software out there with NEON asm or intrinsics
[19:25] <GobShite> yer quad 1.8
[19:25] <GobShite> lol
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[19:26] <zgreg> haltdef: cortex-a9 is similar to atom, clock by clock
[19:26] <zgreg> haltdef: that's a ballpark figure
[19:26] <slaeshjag> zgreg: Only software I know about is emulators, so you'll have to tell me about that :P
[19:26] <haltdef> ah right. I heard 700mhz is similar to a 200mhz atom
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[19:26] <slaeshjag> haltdef: It depends a lot on configuration
[19:27] <haltdef> 700mhz arm11 I mean
[19:27] <zgreg> haltdef: that should be true for the arm11 in the raspi, more or less
[19:27] <haltdef> trying to get my hands on a pandaboard ES, mouser giving me trouble :P
[19:27] <GobShite> yer but having graphics on die, than another chip some place on the board, is an astounding speed increase in its self
[19:27] <haltdef> good to know it'll perform pretty well
[19:27] <zgreg> the pandaboard is nice
[19:27] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[19:27] <zgreg> it's not even that expensive, in my opinion. just consider what peripherals it includes.
[19:28] <zgreg> integrated wifi/bi is definitely welcome
[19:28] <carli2> i don't need all peripherals of the pandaboard, and less peripherals would make it cheaper
[19:28] <zgreg> s/bi/bt/
[19:28] <piofcube> There's so much that has to be taken into account when comparing chips/OSes and even software packages.
[19:28] <haltdef> gig of ram too
[19:28] <zgreg> haltdef: yeah, and that's an important feature, since ram can never be upgraded.
[19:29] <haltdef> I'm hoping to turn it into a bnc, bitlbee and webserver
[19:29] <haltdef> the webserver will be *very* lightly used, most of its requests will be reverse proxy only
[19:29] <zgreg> carli2: incidently, the "cotton candy" is pretty much what you want, yet not any cheaper.
[19:29] <GobShite> anyone here working on the apps, or any dev repo? toolchain ? links
[19:29] <slaeshjag> I find it funny that the big bottle neck on the OpenPandora is RAM bw
[19:30] <zgreg> slaeshjag: that's really true for most ARM SoCs
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> slaeshjag: you mean on production, or in use?
[19:30] <slaeshjag> SpeedEvil: in use
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[19:30] <piofcube> I'm waiting to get hold of an actual R-Pi before doing any apps/etc
[19:30] <zgreg> on the pi memory bandwidth will be fun, too
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[19:31] <zgreg> performance is going to degrade a little if you drive a high-res panel with it
[19:31] <piless> hi
[19:31] <piofcube> lo piless
[19:31] <zgreg> there's little memory bandwidth, and just the 60 Hz display refresh is going to to eat up a notable portion of it
[19:32] <zgreg> at 1080p, display refresh needs almost 500 MB/s of memory bandwidth
[19:32] <piofcube> We in the UK will have a 10hz advantage then;-)
[19:32] <GobShite> ;)
[19:32] <zgreg> why?
[19:32] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[19:32] <piofcube> our TVs use 50Hz
[19:33] <zgreg> refresh isn't coupled to AC frequency these days
[19:33] <GobShite> any op have any problem with me dropping a bouncer here ?
[19:33] <piofcube> it is on standard TVs :-)
[19:33] <GobShite> cool
[19:33] <zgreg> what might work to save some bandwidth is to drop to 24 Hz refresh
[19:33] <piofcube> High-Def... you're right
[19:33] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> TV is too smooth.
[19:33] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:33] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> We should go to 7.5Hz
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> Match up with youtube mobile.
[19:34] <zgreg> yeah, but if you're only going to drive an SD display, memory bandwidth won't be an issue anyway
[19:34] <mkopack> 'sup gang?
[19:34] <piofcube> LOL... mains powered clocks used to be regulated by the AC frequencies in the USA... heheh
[19:34] <GobShite> \o
[19:35] <_av500_> piofcube: in europe too
[19:35] <piofcube> During the day, as demand grew, the clocks would slow down... so later on they would have to speed up the generators to compensate
[19:35] <_av500_> yep
[19:35] <piless> PAL > NTSC
[19:36] <_av500_> ntsc has 10 hurtz more
[19:37] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> The UK mains is still synced IIRC
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/Demand/Demand60.htm
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> 49.997Hz
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> 977
[19:38] <slaeshjag> _av500_: PAL has more linez!
[19:38] <piless> http://www.nationalgrid.com/ngrealtime/realtime/realtime8daylarge.aspx
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> piless: It's funky.
[19:39] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:39] * GeekyKids (GeekyKids@199.127.225.125) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:39] * PiBot sets mode +v GeekyKids
[19:40] * GeekyKids (GeekyKids@199.127.225.125) has left #raspberrypi
[19:40] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:40] * PiBot sets mode +v resnak
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> If you note - the daily peak from ~9AM to ~4PM is reasonably well correlated with solar.
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> We now have about a gigawatt of installed solar in the UK.
[19:42] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:42] * PiBot sets mode +v pizthewiz
[19:42] * Guest51245 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:42] * MasterGeek (geekykids@95.211.46.124) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:42] * PiBot sets mode +v MasterGeek
[19:42] <piofcube> wow... a gigawatt of solar power... generated during those 2 days of sun we get... amazing ;-)
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.pvoutput.org/listteam.jsp?tid=110 - assuming that this is distributed the same as the UK generation - you can multiply by 1000 the figure on the right to get the daily generation.
[19:43] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> So, today, ~2GWh
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> Or about a total of 3 minutes of load at this moments power.
[19:44] <MasterGeek> ,
[19:44] * GobShite (~GobShite@cpc2-dudl9-0-0-cust318.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.)
[19:44] * JaLu_ (~jalu@95.146.216.87) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:44] * PiBot sets mode +v JaLu_
[19:44] <des2> How many Pis can that power ?
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> Several.
[19:45] <piless> des2: three and a half
[19:45] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:45] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[19:45] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[19:46] <piofcube> if the oil industry fails and we get super-conducting HT lines... The Saudis will corner that market also LOL
[19:46] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] * PiBot sets mode +v resnak
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> If I was the Saudi royals, I'd be heavily investing in nuclear.
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> The oil is going to run out.
[19:48] * GeekyKids (GeekyKids@199.127.225.125) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:48] * PiBot sets mode +v GeekyKids
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> If they are in a position to be delivering large amounts of energy through perhaps existing oil pipelines or wayleaves - it's a great place to be in.
[19:48] <_av500_> Rolls Royce should start nucular powered cars for the saudis
[19:49] <piofcube> solid gold RRs
[19:49] * kanser (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] * PiBot sets mode +v kanser
[19:49] * piless (5ec5069a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.197.6.154) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Especially if the rest of the world remains scared of nuclear.
[19:50] * GeekyKids (GeekyKids@199.127.225.125) has left #raspberrypi
[19:51] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[19:51] <mkopack> Speed: Nah, I'd be investing in SOLAR??? Think about it??? what are 2 things they have a ton of there other than oil??? Sand (silicon) and SUNLIGHT
[19:51] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:51] * PiBot sets mode +v joeka
[19:52] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:52] * PiBot sets mode +v resnak
[19:52] <mkopack> And superconductors so they can transmit that power anywhere??? (Current high capacity electric transmission lines can only really go about 50 miles from production source before the drop off in energy becomes too great to even bother, which is why most power plants are < 50 miles from cities...
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: And the unfortunate point about solar is it kind fails several hours a day.
[19:52] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:53] * resnak (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:53] * PiBot sets mode +v resnak
[19:53] * Netlynx (~jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> Unless you have cables ~10000km long to east and west - you can't get round this.
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> Storage isn't easy at the moment.
[19:53] <mkopack> Speed: depends on the type??? some that use reflecting mirrors to heat up a central tower can heat the hell out of salts and such to a molten form that allows the plant to make power all night long.
[19:54] <mkopack> Or course, mirrors and sand storms don't really mix??? so that's another issue
[19:55] * [1]des2 (~des2@pool-96-232-73-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:55] * PiBot sets mode +v [1]des2
[19:55] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:55] * kanser (resnak@cpe-67-242-172-135.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:56] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[19:56] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[19:57] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-41-101.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:57] * [1]des2 is now known as des2
[20:02] * HienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:02] * PiBot sets mode +v HienoMies
[20:03] <petschge> modern high voltage lines loose about 1% per 100 kilometers. so at the other end of your 10000 km line you still get about one third of the input
[20:03] <petschge> and that is with existing AC lines. DC can do a bit better by trading initial conversion losses again lower loss in the long run
[20:04] <HienoMies> Where's my Pi?
[20:04] <des2> I ate it.
[20:04] <HienoMies> nnnoooooooo.....
[20:04] <Ticho> with ketchup, i hope
[20:05] <piofcube> you ate all the pis?
[20:05] * JaLu_ (~jalu@95.146.216.87) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone)
[20:05] <piofcube> you f.... ;-)
[20:05] <des2> I installed tomato on them first.
[20:06] <piofcube> well... you might want an ice-cream sandwich for dessert ;-)
[20:06] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:06] * PiBot sets mode +v Cemial
[20:07] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:07] * PiBot sets mode +v Matttt
[20:07] <Matt> that's too many t's
[20:09] <des2> I don't think you can get ice-cream sandwiches with Pi.
[20:10] <mjr> sounds unlikely
[20:10] <Matt> apple pie and icecream is nice
[20:10] <Matt> but not as good as custard :)
[20:10] <HienoMies> sure is
[20:10] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:10] * PiBot sets mode +v joeka
[20:10] <piofcube> a propper apple pie... home made and steaming when you cut into it
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> I just had some sliced really ripe bananna, a little ice-cream, floating in some natural yogurt, with a little sugar, and an equal weight of blackcurrants to the yogurt.
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> Taste explosion.
[20:11] <piofcube> yummy
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> Also - pretty low calorie.
[20:13] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-85.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:13] * victhor (~victhor@187.113.169.223) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:14] <danieldaniel> OMG
[20:14] <danieldaniel> Rpi, y u no ship
[20:14] <rvalles> still no news from rs
[20:14] <rvalles> I wonder when I'll be able to order a pi.
[20:14] <Matt> nothing beats custard
[20:14] <Matt> then again, I could happily just eat a bowl of custard :)
[20:15] <HienoMies> maybe mailman has lost the pies
[20:15] <HienoMies> u never know
[20:16] <HienoMies> Chinese magjack stealing mail man
[20:16] <HienoMies> perhaps
[20:18] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-85.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:18] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[20:18] * CuriosTiger is eating licorice
[20:19] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:21] * victhor (~victhor@187.113.169.223) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:21] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[20:25] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[20:26] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:28] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:28] * PiBot sets mode +v andatche
[20:28] <MasterGeek> Is anyone here interested in becoming part of an open source project aimed at building a set of educational tools based on the PI platrofm?
[20:29] <MasterGeek> Platform*
[20:29] <Thorn_> no, dont be stupid
[20:29] <Thorn_> now hand over the money
[20:30] <MasterGeek> lol???
[20:30] <MasterGeek> Its all about money with you isnt it.
[20:30] <MasterGeek> ;)
[20:31] <piofcube> what sort of tools? Out of interest...
[20:32] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[20:33] <carli2> piofcube: .Net 3.2, visual studio and silverlight
[20:33] <piofcube> perfect for the PI
[20:34] <piofcube> don't forget xna
[20:34] <carli2> no, the GPU in raspi dosen't support directx 10
[20:36] <piofcube> not even if I put a "Works with Directx10" sticker on it?
[20:36] <MasterGeek> Someone has kindly given a server and hosting for the task... As for what kind of "tools" would depend on the skills of the dev/team, and what individual within that group decide its direction, But with emphasis on developing the 6-14 age group, with programming skills from html to C, the understanding of virtual space and physics.
[20:38] <piofcube> ah so, programming tools for the most part... I wasn't sure if you meant other educational subjects or not.
[20:39] <danieldaniel> btw
[20:39] <danieldaniel> i got an email update from RS
[20:39] <MasterGeek> No not math or english, nothing like that.
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Logo!
[20:39] <danieldaniel> asking me to add my info
[20:40] <CuriosTiger> when?
[20:40] <mkopack> OMG I can't wait to be done with this F'ing stupid class!
[20:40] * MasterGeek checks mail
[20:40] * CuriosTiger has nothing from RS today
[20:40] <danieldaniel> i got one
[20:40] <danieldaniel> if anyone wants to
[20:40] <danieldaniel> they can have the link
[20:40] <piofcube> no news today... rs has gone away...
[20:40] <danieldaniel> to update the info
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> danieldaniel: Did you get a 'first batch' mail?
[20:41] <danieldaniel> SpeedEvil: yeah
[20:41] <danieldaniel> if anyone wants to take over the reservation
[20:41] <piofcube> Last I got from RS was... sorry but we're waiting for stock to arrive
[20:41] <danieldaniel> piofcube: you can take over my reservation if you want
[20:42] <danieldaniel> Congratulations! We???re pleased to let you know that you are in the first batch of our registrations for Raspberry Pi. This will mean you will be one of the first to place your order as we are offering Raspberry Pi boards on a first come first served basis and are limiting orders to one per customer. You will shortly receive an invitation to place your order so to help ensure you get your Raspberry Pi as quickly as possible we n
[20:42] <danieldaniel> require some further information on where you want your Pi delivered.
[20:42] <piofcube> Though I've got one on order from Farnell... so better someone else gets it
[20:42] <danieldaniel> piofcube: i have two with farnell, lol
[20:43] <piofcube> I did get my 3D printed template/model today though... US to UK in 2 days or so and for only $3 postage... Beat that Farnell/RS! ;-)
[20:44] <mkopack> pio: The one from beard ?cool
[20:44] <mkopack> How is it?
[20:44] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:44] <mkopack> My 2 Newark orders are still showing the previous ship dates, so keeping fingers crossed
[20:44] <piofcube> $3 something IIRC... Yeah, it's just right for what I want it for.
[20:45] <piofcube> I must have got the one he tried to print the ports in full...
[20:46] <mkopack> Yeah, I think he didn't rework his model until yesterday to change that
[20:46] <piofcube> It's fine though... except it doesn't boot up... Must be a bad power adaptor
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> You need the matching printed power adaptor, or it doesn't work.
[20:47] <piofcube> Yeah... silly me
[20:47] <ObliqueTroll> did he print the correct ethernet jack?
[20:48] <piofcube> I put some keys next to it and they stuck... so yeah, it's magnetic ;-)
[20:48] <ObliqueTroll> heh
[20:48] <danieldaniel> piofcube: what is?
[20:48] <mkopack> lol
[20:48] <HienoMies> roger that
[20:48] <HienoMies> seems legit test to me
[20:48] <piofcube> LMAO
[20:50] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:50] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[20:55] <piofcube> That's annoying... I just installed the ATI drivers in Ubuntu 10.10 and on reboot it always insists on using too high a resolution for my monitor... *sigh*
[20:56] <HienoMies> nice. I'm just installing Ubu 11.10 to thinkpad T23
[21:03] <HienoMies> what a fine piece of hardware
[21:04] <piofcube> I'm setting up the studio PC for video and sound capture
[21:05] * arnd (~arnd@HSI-KBW-46-223-44-216.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:11] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:11] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:11] * imnichol (~ian@8.24.97.104) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:11] * PiBot sets mode +v imnichol
[21:11] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f661c3c-74736162.cust.telenor.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:11] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f661c3c-74736162.cust.telenor.se) Quit (Changing host)
[21:11] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[21:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[21:12] * sven1994 (~sven1994@p4FC2FA73.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
[21:12] * Lycanthropist is now known as Leprosy
[21:13] * ObliqueTroll (~n800@85.210.102.220) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:15] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[21:15] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:15] * PiBot sets mode +v chod
[21:16] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:16] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[21:17] * MenDin (~Win@109.123.117.122) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] * PiBot sets mode +v MenDin
[21:17] * MenDin1 (~Win@109.123.117.122) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:19] * markus___ (~markus@h-35-55.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:25] * ObliqueTroll (~n800@cpc1-oxfd13-0-0-cust605.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:25] * PiBot sets mode +v ObliqueTroll
[21:26] <HienoMies> http://imgur.com/gallery/PSzej
[21:26] <HienoMies> Chinese. U gotta love em
[21:27] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:27] * PiBot sets mode +v esotera
[21:27] * piofcube looks to see if these cameras work on linux
[21:30] <des2> The best thing is apparently there are entire fake Apple stores in China. Look almost identical to the real stores.
[21:33] * MenDin1 (~Win@109.123.117.122) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:33] * PiBot sets mode +v MenDin1
[21:33] * MenDin (~Win@109.123.117.122) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:37] <_av500_> do they have fake apple fanbois too?
[21:37] <des2> Sadly no. Even in China those are real.
[21:43] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:46] * Ahti333 (~Ahti333@dslc-082-082-133-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:47] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:47] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[21:50] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[21:50] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:50] * PiBot sets mode +v zabomber
[21:51] * Gadgetoid_Air (~gadgetoid@cpc6-nrwh10-2-0-cust61.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:51] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadgetoid_Air
[21:53] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-85.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
[21:59] * Ahti333 (~Ahti333@dslc-082-082-133-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Ahti333
[21:59] * o19 (~o19@pD957AB60.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:59] * PiBot sets mode +v o19
[22:03] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:03] * PiBot sets mode +v Flea86
[22:09] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:09] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[22:11] * o19 (~o19@pD957AB60.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:13] * HienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[22:18] * AndyJS (~AJ@78-86-18-251.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:18] * AndyJS (~AJ@78-86-18-251.zone2.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Changing host)
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[22:18] * PiBot sets mode +v AndyJS
[22:18] * PiBot sets mode +v AndyJS
[22:24] * ObliqueTroll (~n800@cpc1-oxfd13-0-0-cust605.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:25] * christinepea777a is now known as christinepea777
[22:26] * kevin1 (~kevin@cpe-24-166-81-109.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:26] * PiBot sets mode +v kevin1
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[22:27] * PiBot sets mode +v flaushy
[22:27] * o19 (~o19@pD957AAF7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] * PiBot sets mode +v o19
[22:27] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:31] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[22:46] <o19> heyho :)
[22:47] <kevin1> can someone ping me really quick
[22:47] <hotwings> [13:46:30] [kevin1 PING reply]: 1sec
[22:47] <_av500_> ping
[22:47] <hotwings> !ping
[22:47] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:47] <_av500_> sorry, cant type faster...
[22:47] <Flea86> [kevin1 PING Reply] : 0.657 seconds
[22:48] <hotwings> [13:47:13] [kevin1 VERSION reply]: WeeChat 0.3.7 (Feb 26 2012)
[22:48] * bokaltoft (~bo@port59.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:48] * PiBot sets mode +v bokaltoft
[22:49] <o19> typo in the topic -> should be 'spreadsheet'
[22:51] <hotwings> good eye buddy
[22:51] * bnmorgan- is now known as bnmorgan
[22:51] <kevin1> anyone here use weechat
[22:51] <Thorn_> someone else noticed that around a month ago
[22:51] <o19> :)
[22:52] <hotwings> i just looked at the weechat homepage.. its not nearly as lame as i thought it would be (*appearance only)
[22:53] * earthshine (~Mike@cpc1-orpi1-0-0-cust99.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[22:53] <kevin1> I'm using it now for the first time it's not that bad honestly
[22:54] <Thorn_> how does it feel to use a client named after something you do in the bathroom
[22:55] * o19 (~o19@pD957AAF7.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[22:56] <hotwings> at least its not diarheachat
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[22:57] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
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[23:13] * HienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[23:14] * PiBot sets mode +v Hopsy
[23:14] <mchou> lol
[23:14] <mchou> even better than the RPi
[23:14] <mchou> http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2012/03/10/first-impressions-of-polaroids-new-4-3-android-pmp/
[23:14] <Hopsy> how much does a quadrocopter cost?
[23:15] <mchou> $60 includes touch screen, speakers, and wifi :)
[23:15] * bokaltoft (~bo@port59.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[23:15] <mchou> plus it's got mpeg2 and lord knows what othe HW assisted codecs
[23:16] <mchou> other*
[23:17] <victhor> I wonder if that's OEMed by some random company and it just has the Polaroid logo on it
[23:18] <mchou> most likely
[23:18] <victhor> besides those devices aren't even comparable
[23:18] <mchou> Polaroid is just a shell/holding company now
[23:18] <victhor> it's like comparing a arduino to the pi and saying the pi is much better because it has "better features" for the same price
[23:19] <mchou> victhor: what do you mean aint even comparable?
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> Arduino is beter for some things.
[23:19] <victhor> that device isn't very useful for anything other than media consumption.
[23:19] <des2> Is Polaroid still in business ?
[23:19] <victhor> the only external interfaces it has are probably a USB port, wifi and bluetooth.
[23:20] <Henchman21> dont forget battery consumption
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> des2: Yes
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> des2: You can actually buy a new polaroid
[23:20] <mchou> des2: not the "old" polaroid
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> They did a digital hybrid one
[23:20] <victhor> digital camera + thermal printer... :P
[23:20] <Henchman21> its not easy finding a place to develop film these days
[23:21] <victhor> Pi allows the end user access to interfaces commonly used to interface to sensors, controllers, etc, such as I2C, SPI, GPIO...
[23:21] <Henchman21> theres like one place within a 25mile radius here
[23:21] <mchou> victhor: considering the broadcom SOC is used in the Roku, and the Rockchip is targeted at mobile phones, I say Rockchip is a better plaform
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Almost every platform is better than any other, in some aspect.
[23:22] <victhor> RK2818 is ARM9.
[23:22] <mchou> victhor: I'm sure if you took that polaroid apart you'd find gpio pins
[23:22] <victhor> According to rockchip's site, it's an ARM9.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> For example, the bifferboard is 'better' than the pi, as it's x86, and smaller.
[23:22] <mchou> plus it comes with a g sensors already
[23:22] * carli2 (~carli@xGagB341.WH1.TU-Dresden.De) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:23] <philh> that's a much better low cost, resistive screened android tablet than the pi, that's for sure
[23:23] <victhor> I don't think it's a good development platform
[23:23] <mchou> pfft
[23:23] <philh> as for a general purpose computer, it seems a bit crap
[23:23] <des2> bifferboard ?
[23:24] <victhor> even if you are developing apps for android... unless you want to test the limits of your optimization skills by getting your code to run well on a ARM9 with Android 2.2.
[23:24] <mchou> sigh
[23:24] <mchou> there's nothing that says it ONLY runs droid 2.2
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> des2: http://www.bifferos.co.uk/
[23:24] <victhor> if you want a cheap android device, it's great
[23:25] <victhor> if you want a cheap development platform, it sucks
[23:25] <philh> though not as great as some other cheap android devices which have faster cpus and better screens
[23:25] <mchou> I'm sure you can run any strip down ulinux or any other rtos if you wanted to
[23:25] <victhor> I don't think so
[23:25] <mchou> you don't think so??
[23:25] <victhor> these chinese OEMs tend not to release source code for the kernel on these android tablets
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> des2: Admitedly, it's very limited in many other ways.
[23:25] <philh> SpeedEvil, very cute
[23:26] <philh> SpeedEvil, bios or something embedded and specialised?
[23:26] <mchou> just for codec abilities alone it's way better than RPi
[23:26] <philh> i.e. potential to be dos games machine in my pocket?
[23:26] <victhor> well if you intend to use your pi as a media player, sure.
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> http://sites.google.com/site/bifferboard/Home/bootloader
[23:27] <victhor> but I can't convert some random tablet into a useful custom device, so it isn't for me.
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> For dos games in your pocket, the Pi is possibly better.
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> As there is no video out.
[23:27] <mchou> you can also put a voip stack on it and it becomes a cheap wifi phone
[23:27] <philh> erm, yes, just came to that realisation
[23:28] <mchou> SpeedEvil: there is video out, need special cable
[23:28] <mchou> you can even make the cable yourself if you wanted
[23:28] <philh> mchou, see if you can track down a cheaper version of one of these http://www.ebuyer.com/345820-sumvision-cyclone-nano-android-media-player-nano1 that i'd be interested in
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> mchou: I was referring to the bifferboard
[23:29] <mchou> otherwise pay polaroid $10 to get the cable
[23:29] <victhor> the device is also $60 and doesn't do what I want
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> I wish there were decent open-source cameras.
[23:29] <victhor> Pi is $35 and does what I want
[23:29] <victhor> therefore Pi is better imo.
[23:29] <mchou> victhor: yeah, get a power supply with RPi and the price goes up to $45
[23:30] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:30] <philh> mchou, where's the special cable mentioned?
[23:30] <victhor> hmm I think I would spend way over $60 to get that tablet working as a NAS.
[23:30] <victhor> just like the arduino is the same price, but I won't be using it on this project. Arduino interfacing to HD and LAN... :/
[23:30] <philh> i'm guessing the polaroid is just as easy to come by as the raspi at the moment, so there's no point arguing about it really
[23:30] <mchou> victhor: if you think you can get RPi working as a suitable nas, good luck to ya
[23:31] <zgreg> did anyone get a second mail from RS?
[23:31] <mchou> victhor: for $25 dockstar is a way better NAS
[23:31] <victhor> which I can't find for sale
[23:31] <victhor> so this alternative is void
[23:31] <zgreg> yesterday, I received a second "thanks for registering" mail, but that one was a bit different from the first
[23:31] * GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] * PiBot sets mode +v GeorgeH
[23:31] <victhor> so yes your point is null. The tablet and the Pi are not directly comparable
[23:31] <mchou> doing NAS via usb is brain dead anyways
[23:31] * Compy2 (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Compy2
[23:32] <victhor> the NSLU2 did it, and I don't need speed
[23:32] <victhor> also 600 MHz ARM9 vs 700 MHz ARM11 is a no-brainer
[23:32] <zgreg> but on the pi, the ethernet port is attached through the same USB port
[23:32] <mchou> not if there's no expanded codec support
[23:32] <zgreg> might be quite slow
[23:33] <zgreg> consider yourself lucky if you get 10 MB/s
[23:33] <mchou> heh
[23:33] <victhor> again, I'm not using it for codec.
[23:33] <victhor> media, rather.
[23:33] <RaYmAn> zgreg: I might have missed something, but where do they specify it's connected over usb?
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[23:33] * PiBot sets mode +v customtronics
[23:33] <mchou> yeah, but you are using it for nas at <10mb/s :)
[23:33] <zgreg> RaYmAn: check out the chip they're using for ethernet
[23:34] <victhor> and you are using a 600 MHz ARM9 with probably 256 MB or less of RAM for... what?
[23:34] <mchou> RaYmAn: they spec'd it that wway, and you have to read the specs real carefully
[23:34] <victhor> media playback?
[23:34] <zgreg> RaYmAn: it combines an USB hub and an ethernet interface
[23:34] <victhor> idc about codecs... it could have no video out for all I care.
[23:34] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
[23:34] <RaYmAn> ah, right..Just found it in faq too..Missed that :)
[23:34] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:35] <zgreg> RaYmAn: plus, USB is basically the only general-purpose external interface
[23:35] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:35] <zgreg> a second USB port would have helped a lot...
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[23:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
[23:35] <SpeedEvil> hub
[23:35] <mchou> there goes your $35 budget :)
[23:35] <zgreg> it looks like the BCM2835 is really highly "optimized" as a media playback SoC
[23:36] <victhor> I never intended on spending $35 only anyway...
[23:36] <zgreg> SpeedEvil: nah, a second USB port on the SoC
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> zgreg: If there is one.
[23:36] <victhor> I did this just for giggles.
[23:36] <zgreg> SpeedEvil: that would offer more bandwidth to extensions
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> I'd love USB-device too.
[23:36] <mchou> zgreg: yeah, which it makes it all the more pity no broad codec license
[23:36] <victhor> However turning a $60 tablet into a NAS would not be fun, at all.
[23:36] <victhor> well if you think the tablet's right for you, buy it.
[23:36] <mchou> zgreg: the same chip is used in Roku
[23:36] <victhor> it isn't right for me, so I'm not buying it.
[23:37] <mchou> victhor: you're missing the point
[23:37] <victhor> the point is...
[23:37] <mchou> victhor: turning the $35 RPi in a NAS is braindead
[23:37] <victhor> using a $60 tablet with ARM9 is even worse imo...
[23:37] * steinB (~local@84.48.125.93) Quit (Quit: steinB)
[23:38] <mchou> (which is really closer to $50 when you are said and done, PSU+hub)
[23:38] <victhor> so?
[23:38] <zgreg> mchou: yes, I know
[23:38] <victhor> I never intended for this to be cost effective
[23:38] <philh> so, where's the online shop where one can buy a polaroid tablet?
[23:38] <victhor> I did this because I wanted to do it myself
[23:38] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:38] <victhor> and I didn't want to build a custom NAS based on a appropriate board such as the hawkboard or I.MX53 quickstart
[23:39] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:39] * PiBot sets mode +v pizthewiz
[23:39] <victhor> because they are over $100 more expensive
[23:40] <haltdef> custom NAS .. old pc with a few sata ports and freenas?
[23:40] <haltdef> :|
[23:40] <mchou> victhor: you want to build a NAS buy a real computer and put zfs on it
[23:40] <mchou> victhor: trust me you be way happier
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> haltdef: At some point, you realise that 30W extra * 24*7*52*365*4 = more than a boxed repurposable NAS
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> err - extra 52 in there
[23:41] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:41] <mchou> lol
[23:41] <victhor> the only junk computer I have is a P4 Prescott with a 450W no-brand PSU
[23:41] * markus (~markus@h-35-55.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:41] * PiBot sets mode +v markus
[23:41] <markus> hello
[23:41] <victhor> you can imagine the costs of running this...
[23:41] <haltdef> tru, the pi would be *cheap* to run
[23:41] <mchou> SpeedEvil: you mean extra 365
[23:41] <des2> I have a zfs file server. Very nice.
[23:41] <haltdef> it'd also be borderline unusable
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> mchou: err
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> that
[23:42] <victhor> well at least it will be a fun project to execute lol.
[23:42] <mchou> des2: zfs with mucho RAM!
[23:42] <victhor> I can later upgrade it to a better board
[23:42] <mchou> des2: imagine zfs with 256M, lol
[23:42] <haltdef> beagle and panda do the same thing with USB+lan as the pi
[23:42] <victhor> but PC NAS is ridiculous, and buying a ready made NAS breaks the whole point of this
[23:42] <zgreg> using the pi as a NAS might have made more sense if it had a number of USB port available at the SoC
[23:42] <haltdef> i.mx53 only has one sata port, not particularly useful either
[23:42] <zgreg> plus gigabit ethernet
[23:43] <victhor> better than no SATA ports I guess :P
[23:43] <haltdef> this is true
[23:44] * Compy2 (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ()
[23:44] <markus> hello
[23:45] <markus> do you know what i need the gertboard for+
[23:45] <victhor> and no I won't be way happier with a fast NAS that causes a $20+ increase on my monthly electricity bill...
[23:45] <haltdef> no NAS will cost that much
[23:45] <Thorn_> markus: you are not the persson we are looking for
[23:45] <mchou> lol
[23:45] * Thorn_ ducks
[23:46] <victhor> haltdef, I meant the P4 Pres"hot" with 450W no name PSU I have
[23:46] <haltdef> ah right
[23:46] <haltdef> I can't imagine it costing quite that much :P
[23:46] <des2> My 6 Terrabyte zfs computer used 73 watts.
[23:46] <haltdef> $5 maybe
[23:47] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[23:47] <victhor> I only wanted to use the box to store backups anyway, it could be super slow, I'm using rsync so I shouldn't be going through the hassle that often
[23:47] <mchou> haltdef: in my are 1 W difference translates to $1/YEAR
[23:47] <victhor> as long as it costs next to nothing on the power bill...
[23:47] <mchou> area*
[23:47] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[23:47] <haltdef> I've never measured my server cupboard's power usage come to think of it
[23:48] <victhor> I was going to use laptop drives, even! But these cost too much
[23:48] <mchou> haltdef: so for victhor to claim a $20/month differential must mean he lives on the moon
[23:48] <haltdef> 3x2TB greens, 2x320GB 7200rpm in a core 2 duo, fakeraid card plus 3 routers and a switch
[23:48] <haltdef> OCZ PSU
[23:48] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:49] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[23:49] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[23:49] <mchou> I'd just get a chap athlon II
[23:49] <mchou> cheap*
[23:49] <mchou> good idle profile, very efficient
[23:49] <haltdef> it's all using 21% on my 1200VA rated UPS, shrug :P
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[23:50] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[23:50] <mchou> hahaha
[23:50] <mchou> haltdef: dude man
[23:50] <haltdef> I don't get power usage figures at all
[23:50] * netcarver (~netcarver@87.112.176.104) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:50] <mchou> just put a $350W OSU in it, even that will be overkill
[23:50] <haltdef> wut
[23:51] <mchou> oh, wait a sec, you mentioned UPS, sorry :)
[23:51] <lars_t_h> This device could be a nice fileserver: http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/proddetail.php?prod=Dream_Multi haltdef && victhor
[23:52] <mchou> lars_t_h: no
[23:52] <victhor> expensive.
[23:52] <lars_t_h> but it is a lot more expensive than the Pi
[23:52] <mchou> lars_t_h: poor track record
[23:52] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@216.119.188.115) Quit ()
[23:52] <lars_t_h> mchou, bad device?
[23:52] <mchou> lars_t_h: guruplug ==FAILBUS
[23:52] <mchou> overheat!
[23:53] <lars_t_h> mchou, ah, thnx for info, i didn't know that
[23:53] <mchou> lars_t_h: seriously, avoid at all costs
[23:53] <lars_t_h> mchou, like most laptops, bah!
[23:53] <mkopack> Ugh, I don't want to take this quiz for class??? but I guess if there's any quiz I should be able to kick ass on, it's this one??? Intro to Java..
[23:54] <mchou> I'd take a laptop over guru any day
[23:54] <haltdef> mchou, thoughts on pandaboard ES?
[23:54] <mchou> haltdef: nope, haven't used it
[23:54] <haltdef> ordered one from mouser yesterday
[23:55] <haltdef> hoping to use it as a webserver (also an excuse to play with nginx, use apache on windows atm), znc and bitlbee
[23:55] <mchou> haltdef: good call
[23:55] <haltdef> everything works fine atm, it'd just be cool :P
[23:55] <zgreg> I wonder why they didn't clock the OMAP on the pandaboard es any higher. it' specced for 1.5 GHz
[23:55] <haltdef> heat?
[23:55] <des2> ES is like $180
[23:56] <haltdef> there was only a ??5 difference between ES and regular
[23:56] <zgreg> maybe, but cooling a few extra mW away shouldn't be a problem
[23:57] <_av500_> 1.5 silicon is more expensive
[23:57] <Hourd> mkopack: intro to java? fun times
[23:58] <mkopack> Hourd: yeah, this class is kinda stupid.. its like an intro to computing/tools/unix class??? They're making me take it because it's been like 15 years since I was an undergrad??? I could TEACH this java portion of the class.
[23:58] <Hourd> =(
[23:58] <mkopack> and it's rather an annoying class because the class materials are rather out of date as well
[23:59] <mchou> mkopack: why not just take the test and place out
[23:59] <Hourd> i hope its not like lol type ls
[23:59] <mkopack> And even though I complain about it to the prof, she's being an uber bitch and picky as hell
[23:59] <des2> For $180 is should have 1 gig ethernet
[23:59] <mkopack> mchou: They wouldn't let me
[23:59] <mchou> mkopack: there's no need to waste time and $$
[23:59] <mkopack> it's a pain in the ass
[23:59] <mkopack> big time suck too having to do the weekly labs
[23:59] <mkopack> plus 4 projects
[23:59] <zgreg> mkopack: I guess you just need to deal with it?
[23:59] <mchou> mkopack: you went up to the dept. chair and he wouldn't let you??

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