#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-03-12

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <andytuk> I am getting a lot of mmc0 erros on the cards I have here.
[0:00] <andytuk> ukscone: May give a 'hello world' a go. Im not a programmer (Yet! Pi well help me!)
[0:01] <hotwings> did anyone ever find out if theyre using debian stable or debian testing?
[0:01] <WASDx> haltdef: higher class means faster read speeds hence faster loading of OS and applications?
[0:01] <haltdef> sequential, yes
[0:01] <haltdef> random no, which is what's important
[0:02] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:02] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[0:02] <mkopack> Hot: It's Squeeze
[0:02] <mkopack> that's stable IIRC
[0:02] <mkopack> Wheezy is dev, IIRC
[0:02] <haltdef> I'd imagine you're free to upgrade to testing
[0:02] <WASDx> I'm aiming for a "SDHC ultra class 4"
[0:02] <haltdef> is just bog standard debian armel aside from the kernel
[0:02] <WASDx> 8gb
[0:03] <mkopack> I have a Class 4 and 2 Class 6 16GB cards
[0:03] <andytuk> Im running off a 4GB SanDisk SDHC class 4
[0:03] <haltdef> old 512MB SD for various blobs and kernel for me, rootfs on usb hd
[0:04] <mkopack> halt: I might do that on one of mine as well....
[0:04] <andytuk> DalMummy: I can format a USB stick to ext4 just fine. Not sure how I would make a ext4 system disk at the moment.
[0:04] <WASDx> haltdef: maybe ext4rat can be used to make it less random
[0:04] <WASDx> if you know about it
[0:05] <WASDx> i think i got the name wrong
[0:05] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:05] <WASDx> e4rat was the name
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[0:07] <hotwings> would rpi be "eapi arm" or "hard floated abi arm", or neither of those?
[0:08] * alex- (~alex-@unaffiliated/local-host) has left #raspberrypi
[0:08] <haltdef> it supports hardfloat I believe
[0:08] <hotwings> haltdef - id rather not install debian stable at all. i can download a testing image, ill just do that and compile my own kernel once installed.. which ill need to do anyways
[0:09] <haltdef> debian armhf is armv7 though
[0:10] <andytuk> I should have a copy of the Quake demo running on this Pi some time this week.
[0:10] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:10] <andytuk> Which will be great! :)
[0:11] <hotwings> forgot the demo.. play it
[0:11] <andytuk> I will play it. Cant wait for multiple pi deathmatch
[0:12] <hotwings> *forget
[0:12] <hotwings> bad typing day
[0:12] <andytuk> It is 23:11!
[0:12] <hotwings> multiplayer pi deathmath will be the same as it was on your pc.. only worse
[0:12] <Da|Mummy> andytuk, thanks
[0:14] * Milos|Netbook_ is now known as Milos|Netbook
[0:14] <mkopack> andy: How long have you had the Pi??!?
[0:15] <andytuk> Had it here since Friday.
[0:15] <andytuk> Just compiled my first program. Hello World :)
[0:16] <mkopack> Ah??? was going to say, if you've had the thing for a while and hadn't done anything with it, we'd have to lynch you!
[0:16] <Tomtiger11> Lol, ive got a 1 month wait...
[0:16] <andytuk> Ive been using it in all of my spare time since ive had it
[0:17] <mkopack> Exactly, the rest of us are chomping at the bit to get ours....
[0:17] <andytuk> But I have to give it back next week :(
[0:17] <mkopack> sux
[0:17] <Da|Mummy> how did you get said rpi?
[0:17] <andytuk> This one was donated to a computer museum I work at
[0:17] <andytuk> Serial number 7
[0:17] <Tomtiger11> Lol
[0:18] <andytuk> ??989! :-0
[0:18] <Da|Mummy> ahh, wasnt one of the ebay winners a museum one?
[0:18] <Da|Mummy> ya
[0:18] <andytuk> You can read about the donation on the web site. http://www.computinghistory.org.uk
[0:20] <piofcube> Can anyone recommend any good internal sata cables (pref in the UK)?
[0:20] <andytuk> I just use the cables that come with the motherboard. Work great for me!
[0:21] <philh> same here, what's a bad internal sata cable?
[0:21] <Da|Mummy> does Monster make sata cables?
[0:21] <philh> OFC ones?
[0:22] <Da|Mummy> expensive ones
[0:22] <andytuk> I also use a Poundland HDMI cable on my Pi. :)
[0:22] <piofcube> I have been doing that myself but half of them don't have locking... On one drive (I have 4 SATA installed in a PC) the sata cable falls out every week or two
[0:23] * happy_soil1 (~Mic@78-86-131-1.zone2.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:23] <piofcube> I have a feeling that some aren't rated very well for higher transfer speeds :S
[0:24] <ukscone> andytuk: if you feel up to it and have several spare days it might be nice to give building fio a go http://freecode.com/projects/fio
[0:27] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@ Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[0:27] <andytuk> ukscone: compiling now...
[0:27] <philh> piofcube, sounds like a job for blutack
[0:28] <piofcube> phih: LOL
[0:30] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc35-belf9-2-0-cust731.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:30] * PiBot sets mode +v barr5790
[0:31] <andytuk> Right - im off. Going to hide the Pi so dont even think of stealing it!
[0:32] <piofcube> cya andytuk
[0:32] <ukscone> cya
[0:32] * Naphatul (~Naphatul@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:32] <andytuk> If you have any Qs about the pi, drop me a tweet/email etc
[0:32] <ukscone> have a pifully good evening
[0:32] <mkopack> cya andy! enjoy it while you can!
[0:33] <andytuk> You can contact me via http://www.retrocomputers.eu
[0:34] <andytuk> I will go on the forums when I can. I think some of the forum users now believe I actually have a Pi :)
[0:34] <philh> gn
[0:37] * andytuk (~root@cpc26-pete9-2-0-cust153.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[0:44] * TheShrew (~theshrew@87-194-161-58.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
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[0:50] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[0:58] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[1:29] <mkopack> I sincerely hope the Rpi is a bit faster than this SheevaPlug I have...
[1:29] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: It's slower.
[1:29] <SpeedEvil> Unless you can use the codec accelleration.
[1:30] <mkopack> yeah, that's what I'm afraid of??? Plug has 2x the RAM, but older gen CPU (although it's a 1.2 Ghz instead of 700Mhz...)
[1:30] <mkopack> yeah, that's what I'm afraid of??? Plug has 2x the RAM, but older gen CPU (although it's a 1.2 Ghz instead of 700Mhz???)
[1:30] <SpeedEvil> It only has one, not two CPUs.
[1:30] <mkopack> SheevaPlug only has 1
[1:30] <SpeedEvil> I was referring to the doublepost
[1:30] <mkopack> 1.2 Ghz Arm 5
[1:31] <RITRedbeard__> clockspeed
[1:31] <mkopack> (oh, that's just because my IRC client decided to try to autocorrect something
[1:31] <RITRedbeard__> what about ISA?
[1:31] <RITRedbeard__> I mean
[1:31] <RITRedbeard__> IPC improvements
[1:31] <mkopack> RIT: That's the hope, that the v6 will be faster clock for clock than the v5
[1:32] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@bl17-241-207.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:32] <mkopack> it's one of the reasons I really want hardware FP in the OS??? To help make up the diff. The SheevaPlug has NO hw fp
[1:32] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard__: Clockspeed is to a small degree a lie.
[1:32] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard__: But - not gonna make up for ~70% more clock.
[1:32] <RITRedbeard__> just bare in mind that it is no powerhouse and that the Cortex-A8 is 2x fast clock for clock (Beagleboard, iPhones, as a point of reference)
[1:32] <RITRedbeard__> bear
[1:32] <RITRedbeard__> bare
[1:32] <SpeedEvil> With a broadly similar architecture.
[1:33] <RITRedbeard__> Depending on what you intend to use it for -- I have a Bifferboard.
[1:33] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[1:33] * neouf (~neouf@charles.bijon.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[1:33] <SpeedEvil> I'd like a one-chip linux package.
[1:34] <SpeedEvil> A QFN or similar package maybe 8*8mm or so, 8M RAM, a few hundred K of flash.
[1:34] <SpeedEvil> MMU and linux capable.
[1:34] <SpeedEvil> Even only a couple of hundred MHz.
[1:34] <victhor> smallest I've seen is a RJ45 plug
[1:35] <RITRedbeard__> I bought the Bifferboard this summer because I heard RPi was going to be CC sized and Beaglebone hadn't come out yet.
[1:35] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard__: What are you using it for?
[1:35] <RITRedbeard__> And the fact I was/am stuffing it into a 800mm wingspan RC plane
[1:35] <SpeedEvil> :)
[1:35] <RITRedbeard__> I got back to uni today, packed light but brought all the toys
[1:36] * SpeedEvil needs to get his fapping machine working.
[1:36] <SpeedEvil> Flapping
[1:36] <RITRedbeard__> freudian
[1:36] <SpeedEvil> Ornithopters are cool.
[1:36] <RITRedbeard__> probably join aero club at end of the week
[1:37] <RITRedbeard__> I could fly the high wing trainer but my 800mm warbirds kept stalling
[1:37] <RITRedbeard__> probably not enough airspeed/COG all mixed up.
[1:37] <RITRedbeard__> also driving PWM from biffer should be interesting
[1:37] <SpeedEvil> Well - you can repurpose almost all of the pins to GPIO
[1:37] <SpeedEvil> then you just use a servo demultiplexor
[1:38] <SpeedEvil> Or alternatively, you cheat, and use a USB or rs232 server board.
[1:38] * mrdragons (~lucas@c-98-204-135-73.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:38] * RITRedbeard__ is now known as RITRedbeard
[1:39] <RITRedbeard> I was looking into doing it via software then life happened.
[1:39] <SpeedEvil> :)
[1:40] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what fraction of beagle/pandaboards are in drawers.
[1:40] <SpeedEvil> 'I'll get to it real-soon-now'
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[1:40] <RITRedbeard> I've actually never driven a servo or stepper before.
[1:40] <mkopack> Have you looked into the Ardupilot board? (hooks up with an Arduino mega )
[1:40] <SpeedEvil> Servos are dead easy - if you can get clean PWM
[1:40] * moelmzen (~TabakDelu@77-20-199-184-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit ()
[1:40] <Ben64> i wonder what percentage of raspberrypis actually exist
[1:40] <SpeedEvil> The on-time is very important.
[1:40] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:40] <SpeedEvil> ~1% jitter - 40us - will make your servo use lots more power
[1:41] <RITRedbeard> mkopack, yeah, I was interested in doing it with on-the-shelf-hardware and doing the software myself since I'm a software guy
[1:41] <mkopack> Ben: What do you mean? There's the 10,000 that got sent back to be fixed
[1:42] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, sounds like you have a lot of experience with servos and PWM... does adafruit/sparkfun sell demux or controller?
[1:42] <RITRedbeard> that's the funny thing too
[1:42] <RITRedbeard> I was in colorado working for IBM at that time
[1:42] <RITRedbeard> I biked over to Sparkfun
[1:42] <RITRedbeard> :)
[1:42] <mkopack> Boudler?
[1:42] <RITRedbeard> Yessir.
[1:42] <mkopack> Been there a few times back when I was a Big Blue'er
[1:42] * genbattle (~quassel@203-114-137-9.wir.sta.inspire.net.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:43] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: I have no idea
[1:43] <RITRedbeard> The Boulder site always printers, mkopack?
[1:43] <RITRedbeard> and imaging science stuff?
[1:43] <mkopack> Oh, nah, I was there for a software deployment to the server farm there one time, and for a training class one time
[1:43] <RITRedbeard> the IBM portion is now a data center
[1:43] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: The idea is that a servo has a dead-time of ~20ms, then a ~1ms active pulse to set the position by its width. This means you can stack servo pulses one after the other.
[1:44] <SpeedEvil> And then just feed them one by one to each servo.
[1:44] <SpeedEvil> I think some recievers can also do this
[1:44] <SpeedEvil> diydrones.com may be useful
[1:44] <RITRedbeard> Lexmark, Ricoh, and someone else rents space from the facility. Dead beautiful.
[1:44] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@bl17-241-207.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:45] <RITRedbeard> Bike down I think it was 51st... go on back road and jump on the Diagonal to IBM Drive; see all the hot air balloons in the early morn'
[1:47] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, you sound like an EE.
[1:48] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: Aspiring but for health problems.
[1:49] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, this looks fruitful: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10136
[1:49] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@246-73.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:50] <SpeedEvil> If you can talk the interface.
[1:50] <SpeedEvil> It's not RS232
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[1:51] <mkopack> RIT: Yeah, I always thought it was really pretty there, and a motorcyclists dream - mountains passes and long straight roads on the flats...
[1:52] <mkopack> I loved the little area in downtown where it was pedestrian only where all the bars and restaurants are
[1:52] <mkopack> but the whole "zero growth" policy makes living there insanely expensive
[1:54] <RITRedbeard> mkopack, municipal taxes? I'm from NJ, so...
[1:54] <RITRedbeard> heh
[1:54] <mkopack> RIT: hehe??? Well, my understanding was that Boulder had a 0 growth policy, so it was nearly impossible to build a new home there
[1:55] <mkopack> which meant home prices just kept gong up
[1:55] <mkopack> going
[1:56] <RITRedbeard> well you could always live in the towns outside like ah... Niwot, Longmont, Louisville.. probably expensive but not as.
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[2:02] <RITRedbeard> I regret leaving tools behind. :(
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[2:14] <RITRedbeard> A site with a Flash intro?
[2:14] <RITRedbeard> Haven't seen that in awhile.
[2:15] * chrisjunkie (~Chris@2001:4428:22d:2:208:2ff:fe7e:6312) has left #raspberrypi
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[2:23] <mkopack> ?
[2:23] * pitillo (~pitillo@130.Red-79-148-211.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:25] <RITRedbeard> ??
[2:26] <mkopack> Stupid room splits mean I keep missing posts??? What were you referring to with the whole site with a Flash intro?
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[2:27] <RITRedbeard> I found a site with a flash intro in my search for a pinout
[2:27] <RITRedbeard> it was weird
[2:27] <RITRedbeard> so 2000
[2:27] <mkopack> yeah, there's still some of those out there??? I HATE them
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[2:38] <RITRedbeard> Lenovo's prices flucuate waaaaay too much.
[2:38] <RITRedbeard> 2 months ago, the X130e was $399
[2:39] <RITRedbeard> three weeks ago it jumped to $450 ish?
[2:39] <RITRedbeard> now $499
[2:44] <Kyzz> RITRedbeard: What are you looking to buy?
[2:45] <RITRedbeard> A Raspberry Pi that I can turn into a netbook with a proper resolution, keyboard, chassis, wireless radio...
[2:45] <RITRedbeard> Failing that, I am too chicken to install Debian on my Thinkpad T410
[2:45] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:45] <RITRedbeard> because... it uses Nvidia's Optimus switchable graphics
[2:45] <Kyzz> Do you like your thinkpad? I'm looking for laptops for college
[2:45] <Kyzz> ...
[2:45] <RITRedbeard> Yes.
[2:46] <Kyzz> Which do you own?
[2:47] <RITRedbeard> I have Thinkpad T410 with 1440x900 panel, NVS3100 Nvidia Optimus Switchable GPU; Core i5 560m
[2:47] <RITRedbeard> upgraded to 8GB DDR3
[2:47] <RITRedbeard> and oh
[2:48] <RITRedbeard> switched out the to be quite frank, shit Hitachi drive and put in 64GB SSD
[2:48] <RITRedbeard> Now I will never use mobile again that is not solid state based.
[2:48] <Kyzz> I mean I'm majoring in CS
[2:48] <Kyzz> I'm on Arch now on a 34GB SSD so fast o.o
[2:48] <Kyzz> Do you use tmux?
[2:49] <RITRedbeard> I'm a simple man so I use gnu screen
[2:49] <RITRedbeard> when I do ssh into the lab machines/posix boxes
[2:49] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:49] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[2:49] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[2:50] <Kyzz> Hmm
[2:50] <Kyzz> I'm hoping to be able to ssh to my desktop in my dorm
[2:50] <Kyzz> my phone
[2:50] <Kyzz> and laptop
[2:50] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:50] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[2:52] <RITRedbeard> but if I wanted a linux laptop and it couldn't be a pandaboard, beagleboard, beaglebone, or raspberry pi, I am looking at a X120e
[2:52] <ddss|mips> sorry, those use nonfree software
[2:52] <RITRedbeard> not sure how good the support for the APU is under linux
[2:52] <ddss|mips> binary blob drivers
[2:52] <RITRedbeard> Which?
[2:52] <mkopack> Yeah, SSD on a laptop is KICK ASS
[2:53] <mkopack> I replaced the original HD in my 2007 MAcbook with a 120GB SSD (not even a fast one??? since the laptop only could do SATA1, why bother?) and it's like having a whole new machine!
[2:53] <RITRedbeard> mkopack, Kyzz: when I first got my Thinkpad I made it a habit to drop it. The accelerometer was too sensitive in the drive and is "stuck" so now I have the SSD and I drop the TP with impunity.
[2:53] <RITRedbeard> Drop test was for friends and my own interests.
[2:53] <mkopack> lol
[2:53] <RITRedbeard> tests
[2:54] <RITRedbeard> in the plural, sorry, heh
[2:54] <mkopack> aka: I want an excuse to buy an SSD :)
[2:54] <RITRedbeard> I didn't expect the drive to give up the ghost so easily
[2:54] * geosmin (18cb2e0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[2:54] * PiBot sets mode +v geosmin
[2:54] <RITRedbeard> I mean mechanical drives have been made with onboard accelerometers for a looooong time
[2:55] <RITRedbeard> but the best part is that thinkpad screen can open up 180 degrees
[2:55] <Kyzz> Hmm
[2:55] <RITRedbeard> pain in the neck to listening to music or have some IO operation be stopped because you nudged the laptop or because you're on the move
[2:55] <RITRedbeard> in my case I was senior lab assistant at the time checking labs
[2:56] <Kyzz> I had tmux working yesterday....damn
[2:57] <Kyzz> Now I can't get it xD
[2:57] <RITRedbeard> ddss|mips?
[2:58] <Kyzz> erm I'm not sure what you mean (i'm still a linux noob)
[3:00] * geosmin (18cb2e0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:00] * beardface (18d98b2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[3:00] * PiBot sets mode +v beardface
[3:00] <RITRedbeard> ddss|mips said everything I had listed uses binary blob drivers
[3:01] <RITRedbeard> I asked him even OMAP/PowerVR?
[3:02] <beardface> OMFG I hate the raspberry pi foundation
[3:02] <RITRedbeard> Indeed.
[3:02] <beardface> they flagged my ebay account for selling RPI plastic models
[3:03] <Kyzz> Seriously....?
[3:03] <beardface> and it was clear as hell they were plsatic, painted modles
[3:03] <RITRedbeard> Oh, I thought you were being facetious.
[3:03] <beardface> all my listings got cancelled
[3:03] <beardface> No, I hate them
[3:03] <beardface> i want to cancel my order out of principle
[3:03] <beardface> "Open" my ass
[3:03] <RITRedbeard> Well, I don't know if I hate them... but their paper launch really pissed me off.
[3:03] <philh> beardface, how to you know it was the foundation?
[3:03] <beardface> they will get no press or love from me
[3:04] <beardface> b/c I had another site, rpicases.blogspot.com
[3:04] <beardface> and they e-mailed me directly
[3:04] <Ben64> beardface: your ebay acct is dead now?
[3:04] <beardface> the next day (today) i got an email from ebay saying a vendor had complained
[3:04] <philh> you should post the foundation email somewhere, that's quite a surprise
[3:04] <beardface> and my account is flagged and under review
[3:04] <beardface> yup
[3:04] <beardface> all listings cancelled
[3:04] <Ben64> lame
[3:04] <RITRedbeard> beardface, consider beaglebone... lil harder to interface to display but Cortex-A8 is 2x faster clock for clock than ARM11
[3:05] <Ben64> you made it super clear it wasn't a raspberry pi
[3:05] <beardface> i'll consider everything but the RPi
[3:05] <RITRedbeard> also beaglebone and TI's offerings have ways to easily connect LVDS
[3:05] <SpeedEvil> :/
[3:05] <Ben64> just get your ebay acct unsuspended and talk to liz or someone
[3:05] <RITRedbeard> well, easier than deseralizing TDMS signals (HDMI, DVI, etc) then shooting them up to LVDS
[3:05] <philh> silly question, but what was the license of the model you used to produce the printouts?
[3:05] <Ben64> they probably just cast too wide of a net
[3:06] * chrisjunkie (~Chris@2001:4428:22d:2:208:2ff:fe7e:6312) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:06] * PiBot sets mode +v chrisjunkie
[3:06] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[3:06] <SpeedEvil> One really nice side-efect of Pi would be if they could make other hardware less expensive.
[3:06] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@pool-71-160-42-116.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:06] * PiBot sets mode +v GabrialDestruir
[3:06] <beardface> I'm e-mailing liz and thanking her personally
[3:06] <GabrialDestruir> VB sucks .-.
[3:06] <GabrialDestruir> J/s
[3:06] <beardface> the raspberry pi will make great toilet paper
[3:06] <SpeedEvil> Though this is a tough problem - as what may happen is it simply stops vendors selling unprofitable stuff.
[3:06] <SpeedEvil> If Pi eats the beaglebone market, forex.
[3:07] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, the thing with Raspberry Pi is that certain use case scenarios you are better off buying something like Pandaboard (if you wanted to roll your own ARM lappy)
[3:07] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[3:07] <RITRedbeard> same price if you add your accessories
[3:07] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: I plan on using a Pi to do a proto-laptop
[3:08] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: then going onto a panda possibly.
[3:08] * Compy (~Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ()
[3:08] <Ben64> SpeedEvil: document progress
[3:08] <SpeedEvil> Ben64: yeah
[3:08] <Ben64> i have a few broken laptops with good screens
[3:08] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, I plan on doing the same.
[3:08] <Ben64> would be cool to get working
[3:08] <beardface> I was designing and printing cases for the raspberry pi when i got the email
[3:08] <SpeedEvil> I have a PII/300 laptop
[3:08] <RITRedbeard> I'll probably get my income tax check and get a Beagleboard and mess with that.
[3:08] <beardface> i'm deleting everything and pitching this stuff
[3:08] <victhor> back in 2006-2008 I could run a full desktop Linux system on 512 MB of RAM. Now I need 768.
[3:08] <RITRedbeard> I mean
[3:08] <victhor> What happened?
[3:08] <RITRedbeard> Beaglebone.
[3:08] <GabrialDestruir> I can't seem to figure out how to check if the first letter of the word is a Constant, move it to the end and check again til it's a vowel .-.
[3:09] <beardface> I am so damn pissed
[3:09] <SpeedEvil> The laptop is ~1.1Kg, and has a ~9 hour battery life - if re-celled to the latest cells.
[3:09] <Ben64> beardface: just relax
[3:09] <SpeedEvil> Swapping out the motherboard, and disk, and ... and going to ipad display should take the weight down to ~700g
[3:09] <beardface> trying; the foundation has given me nothing but hate
[3:09] <RITRedbeard> beardface, I know how you feel. On the paper launch at 1 AM EST I was in here swearing a storm.
[3:10] <RITRedbeard> You have to realize Eben, Gert, Liz... they're smart. But they're dumb. They don't know how to market a product.
[3:10] <RITRedbeard> They've designed this great hardware at excellent price point, they're just not that good at anything else, really.
[3:10] <beardface> i spent all that time working on the stupid models for them, which only served to promote more and get people excited
[3:10] <beardface> waste
[3:10] <SpeedEvil> Also - it's possible they may have pointed someone else, with no understanding of the product at ebay - and said 'cancel all listings that mention pi'
[3:10] <RITRedbeard> I suspect RPi in education will be successful only in the UK... like the BBC Micro, never heard of it here in the States.
[3:11] <Ben64> beardface: since you didn't break any rules, you won't be stopped
[3:11] <SpeedEvil> Ben64: Ebay doesn't quite work like that.
[3:11] <Ben64> companies and lawyers like doing silly things, but they get shut down if they're out of line
[3:11] <SpeedEvil> Ben64: Getting your auctions undeleted is almost impossible.
[3:12] * chrisjunkie (~Chris@2001:4428:22d:2:208:2ff:fe7e:6312) has left #raspberrypi
[3:12] <RITRedbeard> beardface, create a new ebay shell account just in case?
[3:12] <SpeedEvil> Ben64: And the sanctions if you try to relist, even through a malicious or incorrect takedown notice - can be bad.
[3:12] <RITRedbeard> Yeah, that's why I was thinking...
[3:12] <SpeedEvil> And can get all your ebay accounts that they can find, and paypal killed.
[3:12] <SpeedEvil> And impossible/hard to register new.
[3:12] <philh> beardface, what's the license of the model you've been using as your base?
[3:13] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, are you presently looking for a laptop
[3:13] <beardface> My E-Mail back to them:
[3:13] <beardface> Also, thank you so much Jack for getting my e-bay account flagged, and deleting all of my listings. I'm really happy with the Raspberry Pi... sorry, I mean R--------- P- Foundation right now. I'll put all of these models I made, which by the way, I'm not making any money off of; and were only intentioned to get people something tangible while they wait for the fallout of the paper launch of the Pi, into the trash. I have 10
[3:13] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:13] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[3:13] <beardface> e, 5 years of hardware hacking, 3 years of 3d printer building, 4 years of robot building; and I was planning on contributing heavily to the community; but now, I'll spend my time somewhere it is appreciated. Thanks again; I really, really appreciate the way this was all handled, and think nothing but the best for the R_____ _ foundation. Good Day Sir.
[3:14] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: yes, but nobody sells them.
[3:14] <oldtopman> beardface: It's not the foundation's fault completely.
[3:14] <Ben64> ebay support - 1-800-322-9266
[3:14] <RITRedbeard> All I can say is I understand where beardface is coming from. The paper launch killed it for me.
[3:14] <jamesglanville> beardface: any chance you can post the email they sent to you?
[3:14] <oldtopman> THey asked to have the clones removed.
[3:14] <oldtopman> Some git at ebay flagged everyone selling a "pi"
[3:15] * oldtopman will brb in a min if you have to replay to me :P
[3:15] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:15] <RITRedbeard> I'm probably going to end up getting a model A now that it has 256mb RAM anyway
[3:15] <beardface> the last email was a generic MC999 violdation email from ebay
[3:15] <philh> can you pastebin the one that came direct from the foundation regarding the blogspot site?
[3:16] <RITRedbeard> beardface, cool off and check out the beaglebone. bit more expensive at $86 but much more ability to interface, 2x CPU power, totally documented up the wazoo
[3:16] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[3:16] <beardface> philh: there is not a whole lot of interest
[3:17] <philh> hmm?
[3:17] <beardface> they first thread between them and I was very civil
[3:17] <beardface> it was the ebay violation that has me fuming
[3:17] <philh> so what did they say, who wrote the email?
[3:17] <philh> the ebay thing probably isn't them
[3:17] <philh> not directly, at any rate
[3:18] <philh> there've been dozens of people attempting to resell farnell preorders and the like, i can imagine that the ebay moderators are being a little heavy handed with anything raspi related at the moment
[3:18] * ikso (~ikso@67-40-75-97.phnx.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:18] * PiBot sets mode +v ikso
[3:18] <Ben64> yeah theres a "Report Item" link on every item page
[3:18] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[3:18] <Ben64> anyone could have done it
[3:19] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:19] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[3:19] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, oh, I thought you didn't have a x86 laptop, I thought you were saying you're CS student starting out and needed a goto on something good. My bad.
[3:20] <beardface> philh: http://pastebin.com/imaAccBr
[3:20] <beardface> like i said, it was pretty civil
[3:20] * EiN_ (~einstein@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:20] * PiBot sets mode +v EiN_
[3:20] <beardface> I'm sure it was RPi
[3:21] * Yesh (~jlipps@c-98-234-53-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:21] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[3:21] <beardface> In their defese, my models were pretty bad ass: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/846109/raspberry_pi_painted.png
[3:21] <philh> beardface, sounds like they had no problem at all with what you were doing and you've just lost it with them in the absence of any evidence that it was a direct action taken by them
[3:21] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: I mean - I want a 10-12" or so 4:3 laptop.
[3:22] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: Which don't unfortunately exist at all.
[3:22] <beardface> yeah, my email listing was full of disclaimers though
[3:22] <philh> did you paint that with your toes?
[3:22] <beardface> philh: you try painting something the size of a credit card
[3:22] <philh> the models themselves do look great, though
[3:22] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, sure there is... if you like mobile pentium II :P
[3:22] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: :/
[3:22] <RITRedbeard> what did you have in mind for chassis/laptop to canabalize?
[3:23] <philh> beardface, i just think it looks better unpainted
[3:23] <SpeedEvil> Toshiba 3110CT
[3:23] <ukscone> beardface: well it would not have been liz, eben or jack that flagged your ebay auctions as they havee been off the internet since friday
[3:23] <beardface> unpainted ones were only 5 bucks
[3:23] <SpeedEvil> It's a Mg/Al case laptop with a nice keyboard and trackpoint - an ultraportable one.
[3:23] <beardface> unless they flagged on friday
[3:23] <beardface> and ebay took 2 days to review
[3:23] <philh> oh, you charge extra for the daubing? :p
[3:23] <ukscone> liz & eben especially as they had a 12 hour flight
[3:24] <beardface> painting those takes me 20 minutes
[3:24] <beardface> so, yes
[3:24] <philh> that long?
[3:24] <beardface> yeah, there are 6 colors
[3:24] <beardface> granted part of that 20 i'm letting stuff dry
[3:24] <beardface> between layers
[3:24] <courpse> I was impressed by your ed printing, but yeah, the painting has made it look bad, :/
[3:24] <philh> and washing your toes between colours
[3:25] <courpse> 3d*
[3:25] <Kyzz> damn tmux
[3:25] <beardface> eh, i like them painted
[3:25] <RITRedbeard> beardface: http://beagleboard.org/static/beaglebone/a3/Docs/Hardware/BONE_SRM.pdf
[3:25] <philh> sorry, should stop teasing, seriously, the printed models look awesome
[3:25] <RITRedbeard> eth is seperate from USB
[3:25] <RITRedbeard> lets see
[3:26] <RITRedbeard> comes with everything you need
[3:26] <RITRedbeard> 4 LEDs on the board you can manipulate
[3:26] <GabrialDestruir> Is it possible to do a Do Until and have the Expression check against an Array?
[3:26] <RITRedbeard> all IO is 3.3vdc
[3:26] <beardface> 89 bucks though is a price i have to think about
[3:26] <beardface> no 5v io?
[3:27] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:27] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[3:27] <RITRedbeard> One power LED indicates that power is applied.
[3:27] <RITRedbeard> o Four Green LEDs that can be controlled via the SW by setting GPIO ports
[3:27] <GabrialDestruir> Like Do Until 1stChar = "A","E","I","O","U"
[3:27] <RITRedbeard> A full 24 bit LCD panel can be supported. With the main board having backlight and
[3:27] <RITRedbeard> touchscreen functionality, will simply and lower the cost of LCD expansion boards.
[3:27] <RITRedbeard> Backlight power is limited to 25mA, so this may not be enough for larger panels.
[3:27] <RITRedbeard> "There are five serial ports on the expansion headers. UART1-4 has TX,Rx,RTS and CTS
[3:27] <RITRedbeard> signals while UART5 only has TX and RX. "
[3:28] * sven1994 (~svens@p4FC2FF8E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[3:28] <RITRedbeard> "Seven 100K sample per second A to D converters are available on the expansion header"
[3:28] <RITRedbeard> "A maximum of 66 GPIO pins are accessible from the expansion header. All of these pins
[3:28] <RITRedbeard> are 3.3V and can be configured as inputs or outputs. Any GPIO can be used as an
[3:28] <RITRedbeard> interrupt and is limited to two interrupts per GPIO Bank for a maximum of eight pins as
[3:28] <RITRedbeard> interrupts."
[3:29] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: Does it do LVDS?
[3:29] <RITRedbeard> but the video performance if that is what you seek is lacking... 1280x720 @ 32 fps?
[3:29] <RITRedbeard> it is supposed to with some additional circuitry
[3:30] <SpeedEvil> meh
[3:30] <RITRedbeard> it's been done with beagleboard and pandaboards
[3:30] <RITRedbeard> and there will be an expansion board that will do LVDS that is currently being made, will be $20 USD I think
[3:31] <SpeedEvil> I know.
[3:31] <RITRedbeard> http://www.chalk-elec.com/
[3:31] <SpeedEvil> - conversion isn't hard. Just annoying
[3:31] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[3:31] <SpeedEvil> And of course wastes a bit of power
[3:31] <SpeedEvil> As the common parallel ->lvds chips are a bit hungry
[3:32] * sven1994 (~svens@p4FC2FF8E.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:32] * PiBot sets mode +v sven1994
[3:33] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[3:37] * RITRedbeard shrugs.
[3:39] * PReDiToR (~PReDiToR@unaffiliated/preditor) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:39] * PiBot sets mode +v PReDiToR
[3:40] <GabrialDestruir> http://pastebin.com/ejtdmzNq can anyone see a reason that'd freeze up? .-.
[3:41] * EiN_ is now known as EiNSTeiN_
[3:41] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@ Quit (Changing host)
[3:41] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:41] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[3:41] <mrdragons> Infinite loop likely
[3:41] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[3:41] <SpeedEvil> More debug prints
[3:42] <mrdragons> What language is that?
[3:42] <GabrialDestruir> VB
[3:42] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:42] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[3:42] <RITRedbeard> ..?
[3:42] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: Station breakdown)
[3:42] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:42] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
[3:43] * beardface (18d98b2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #raspberrypi
[3:43] * Vir2L (~Greg@224.231-93-216-fuji-dsl.dhcp.surewest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[3:44] <mrdragons> Doesn't look like it's ever incrementing variable i
[3:47] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:47] <GabrialDestruir> i is controlled outside that loop...
[3:49] <mrdragons> If wordlist(i) begins with a vowel, it'll get stuck in the loop forever
[3:49] <mrdragons> Er, if it doesn't
[3:49] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[3:50] <GabrialDestruir> It should be moving the constant to the end going through again checking again til a vowel is first.
[3:52] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:52] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz_
[3:55] <RITRedbeard> SpeedEvil, I lack the electrical prowess to do much in terms of TDMS to LVDS
[3:55] <RITRedbeard> sadly :(
[3:55] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:58] <stvc> GabrialDestruir, put the statement that defines str1stChar inside the loop
[4:00] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[4:02] <GabrialDestruir> Oh that must of been what fixed it.... now to fix the next issue .-. lol
[4:04] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:04] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[4:05] <GabrialDestruir> Oh duh xD
[4:06] <GabrialDestruir> Have to reset loops if you want them to work xD
[4:08] * oberling_ (~oberling@brln-4dbc623a.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:08] * PiBot sets mode +v oberling_
[4:09] * RITRedbeard (RITReadbea@t410x.student.rit.edu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:11] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4db9ebfc.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[4:12] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[4:16] * MrJackson (~MrJackson@c-174-59-171-89.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:18] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[4:22] * PiBot sets mode +v mattwj2002
[4:22] <mattwj2002> hey guys
[4:23] <mattwj2002> I want a raspberry pi for xmbc!
[4:24] <GabrialDestruir> DONT WE ALL?!?!?
[4:24] <SpeedEvil> No.
[4:24] <[deXter]> Eh?
[4:24] <GabrialDestruir> Last I heard unless you've bought yours already
[4:24] <GabrialDestruir> you'll be waiting until august
[4:24] <GabrialDestruir> have fun with that.
[4:25] <[deXter]> Well, receivers of the first batch have a golden opportunity to make a ton of money.. *cough* *cough*
[4:26] <SpeedEvil> Unless their auctions get cancelled if they try to resell.
[4:26] <SpeedEvil> As seems not implausible.
[4:26] <GabrialDestruir> Indeed... you could probably double or triple the price.... if you get lucky.
[4:26] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:26] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> Of course, in the UK, if you don't like it, you can return it under the distance selling act.
[4:27] <[deXter]> Cool!
[4:27] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:27] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[4:28] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:28] * SpeedEvil ponders selling credit card sized raspberry pies.
[4:29] <[deXter]> Haha, well eBay sellers are already getting a lot of pageviews for objects having "raspberry" in their names..
[4:29] <[deXter]> For example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Koziol-PI-P-Salt-Pepper-Shakers-RASPBERRY-PLUM-/330491944547?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf2dade63
[4:30] <SpeedEvil> http://fatpita.net/?i=9769
[4:30] <Dagger2> auctions of resellers really /shouldn't/ be cancelled. people have (or ought to have) the right to resell stuff they own
[4:30] * mattwj2002 (~matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has left #raspberrypi
[4:31] <SpeedEvil> I would be happier if it was possible to cap the sale price, and the rest go to the foundation.
[4:32] <Dagger2> that... also sounds rather evil. if I sell something, the money the buyer pays should go to me, not partially to the person that originally made the item
[4:33] <SpeedEvil> I agree fully in the case of corporate sales.
[4:34] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sorry, if I buy something, then decide to resell it, it's my profit for any extra I get on it.
[4:35] <GabrialDestruir> Example in the case of Raspberry Pi, the foundation has already gotten their portion for the Raspberry Pi I've bought to sell
[4:38] <Tachyon`> oh right, already pi reseller douchebaggery, joy be unconfined
[4:41] <ukscone> what you are forgetting is you can't resell what you haven't got, ebays tos states that with a slight exceeption and in some juristictions doing so is illegal
[4:41] <ukscone> once people actually have physical posetion of a raspi they can rsell it
[4:42] <ukscone> but seelling places in line or selling something you don't yet havee is douchebaggery of the highest order like ticket scalping
[4:43] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:45] <PReDiToR> There is also the guy who has a May delivery date advertising a model B @ ?200
[4:47] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:47] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[4:48] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410xx.student.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:48] * PiBot sets mode +v RITRedbeard
[4:48] <funkster> hopefully first batch doesnt have any major issues - any idea how long they tested board for?
[4:48] <PReDiToR> Personally I can't wait for the Master model with the x86 daughterboard running DR-DOS ... Oh glorious history.
[4:49] <SpeedEvil> Also, there are 10 people who can actually sell real pis now, of course
[4:51] <PReDiToR> Seeing as RS's site has been down most of the weekend I assume that we've gone and broken their servers again.
[4:52] <SpeedEvil> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermal-imaging-cameras/6654694/ - I wish this was maybe 1/20th of the price.
[4:53] <SpeedEvil> Then I could sort of consider splurging on it.
[4:53] * ikso (~ikso@67-40-75-97.phnx.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
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[4:55] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[5:03] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:09] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: oldtopman has left the house)
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[5:10] * PiBot sets mode +v imnichol
[5:11] * vinters (irp@shell.daug.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[5:11] * PiBot sets mode +v vinters
[5:11] * Mazon (~Mazon@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[5:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Mazon
[5:13] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128177064.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[5:14] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[5:17] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:18] * genbattle (~quassel@203-114-137-9.wir.sta.inspire.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:19] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:19] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[5:20] * genbattle (~quassel@203-114-137-9.wir.sta.inspire.net.nz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:30] * imnichol (~ian@ Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[5:31] * Tachyon` (~tachyon@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust905.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[5:32] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:32] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
[5:34] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[5:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[5:38] * MooseEh (~MooseEh@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[5:38] * PiBot sets mode +v MooseEh
[5:40] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:45] <funkster> anyone have beagle/pandaboard ?
[5:46] <RITRedbeard> sadly, no
[5:46] <RITRedbeard> I've been thinking of getting Beaglebone
[5:46] <RITRedbeard> but I just started a new quarter
[5:46] <funkster> trying to figure out how i can hook up an acceleromter to beagle/panda
[5:46] <Da|Mummy> both, beagleboard, and pandaboard have channels here on freenode. any questions, ask there
[5:47] <RITRedbeard> I2C?
[5:47] <funkster> RITRedbeard whatever works, to be honest
[5:48] <RITRedbeard> the acceleromters in the Wiimote hardware are hardly super accurate but the secret is that every device that attaches to the Wiimote is actually communicating via I2C
[5:48] <RITRedbeard> the Nunchuck has accelerometer, right?
[5:49] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:49] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[5:50] <funkster> no idea
[5:51] * GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:51] <RITRedbeard> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote#Nunchuk
[5:52] <RITRedbeard> "The Nunchuk's accelerometer is an STMicroelectronics LIS3L02AL"
[5:54] <RITRedbeard> funkster, ^^^ and I know Sparkfun has a little breakout board you can plug into the nunchuck
[5:54] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:54] <funkster> sweet! but how i can get that working with raspberry?
[6:01] * mwschib (irc@unaffiliated/mwschib) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:01] * PiBot sets mode +v mwschib
[6:03] * techman2 (6e8e8036@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[6:03] * PiBot sets mode +v techman2
[6:03] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:03] * PiBot sets mode +v Snowl
[6:08] * mrdragons (~lucas@c-98-204-135-73.hsd1.md.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[6:15] <GabrialDestruir> Ugh, I hate when code appears to look fine, but then doesn't work the way it should.
[6:24] * mjorgensen (quassel@nat/nokia/x-rmaercvraoxylztd) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:24] * PiBot sets mode +v mjorgensen
[6:26] * mrdragons (~lucas@c-98-204-135-73.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:26] * PiBot sets mode +v mrdragons
[6:28] * MooseEh (~MooseEh@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:30] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410xx.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:30] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5695.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[6:30] <hotwings> something minor probably
[6:31] <GabrialDestruir> Usually is. lol
[6:31] <hotwings> i hate that.. everything looks right.. only upon extremely close inspection do you discover the typo :\
[6:32] <Da|Mummy> read code backwards
[6:35] <techman2> that's the thing about computers. They don't understand "should" or "close enough".
[6:37] <courpse> lol.
[6:38] <techman2> stupid things :P
[6:38] * echo9 (~echo9@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:38] * PiBot sets mode +v echo9
[6:39] <echo9> Hi all
[6:39] <courpse> So, everyone seems to be turning on RPF?
[6:39] <echo9> Any updates about delivery schedule?
[6:39] <Ben64> echo9: 2042
[6:39] <echo9> Whats rpf..?
[6:39] <echo9> Lol ben :p
[6:40] <Ben64> its not funny
[6:40] <echo9> :O
[6:40] <echo9> @courpse whats an rpf?
[6:40] <Ben64> probably raspberry pi foundation
[6:41] <echo9> Oh.. :D thx
[6:41] * courpse nods.
[6:41] <courpse> Sorry, was cooking.
[6:41] <Ben64> they probably took all the money and are living on the beach somewhere
[6:42] <echo9> Whats in dinner today? :D
[6:42] <courpse> Not a lot, hardly called cooking i guess, deep fried mushrooms on toast.
[6:42] <echo9> @ben naah
[6:42] <echo9> Hmm..smells ok
[6:43] <echo9> Make ht a bit spicy
[6:43] <echo9> It*
[6:45] <echo9> U guys there?
[6:45] <techman2> courpse: what do you mean by everyone seems to be turning on the foundation?
[6:45] <echo9> Oh sorry i got disconectd
[6:46] <courpse> Lots of complaining in here in couple of days.
[6:46] <courpse> Specially from beardface.
[6:46] <courpse> With good reason.
[6:47] <techman2> because of the RJ45 jack delay?
[6:48] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:48] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D
[6:49] <echo9> Loss of signal :( now in underground metro train
[6:49] <echo9> Ssup with the RJ45?
[6:49] <techman2> echo9: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781
[6:51] <echo9> @techman2 sory but can u plz elaborate it i won't be able to access the link; IRC'ing through jmirc (its a mobile based thingy)
[6:52] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:53] <echo9> ?
[6:54] <echo9> Are u guys there?
[6:55] <techman2> echo9: in short, factory screwed up first batch of 10k by soldering on RJ45 jacks without integrated magnetics
[6:55] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:56] <echo9> Integrated magnetics? I do knw a bit about electronics; to my knowledge
[6:56] <echo9> There isn't any magnet
[6:56] <techman2> means a built in transformer.
[6:57] <echo9> On/near the rj45
[6:57] <echo9> Transformer? On a 5v device?
[6:58] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:58] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[6:58] <echo9> :p fish. Now whatr the req. Of a transformer
[6:58] <PReDiToR> The story on the blog says that the factory fitted the wrong part. The comments aren't against the Foundation, but critical of Chinese manufacturing processes and money saving methods, mostly.
[6:58] <echo9> On a rpi
[6:59] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[6:59] <echo9> Oh :| thx for the info
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[7:01] * PiBot sets mode +v heymaster
[7:02] <Dagger2> see e.g. http://www.lantronix.com/pdf/appnotes/Connect-LTRX-Embed-Module-to-Wired-Ethernet_AN.pdf for a diagram of the magnetics. I don't know precisely what they're for though (DC isolation?)
[7:03] <PReDiToR> Signal clarification and power separation AFAIK
[7:03] * kcj (~casey@118-93-55-204.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:03] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[7:03] * kcj (~casey@118-93-55-204.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Changing host)
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[7:03] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[7:03] <echo9> Hm yep thts it
[7:04] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:07] * DooMMasteR (~DooMMaste@unaffiliated/doommaster) Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:07] * DooMMasteR (~DooMMaste@unaffiliated/doommaster) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:07] * PiBot sets mode +v DooMMasteR
[7:08] <echo9> Hey doom
[7:08] <techman2> sysadmin work on windows boxes is crushing my will to live.
[7:10] <echo9> Windows? Still stuck on windows?! Jees
[7:11] <techman2> yes it's how I earn a buck. not sure why I'm doing it anymore....
[7:11] <courpse> But a lot of work involved for sysadmining windows, :/
[7:11] <courpse> Or you got RPC set up on them?
[7:11] <courpse> So you can restart them remotely to fix the problems?
[7:12] <techman2> I do ongoign monthly maintenance for about 30 of our customers.
[7:12] <techman2> ongoing even
[7:12] <techman2> most work via RDP
[7:13] <courpse> Isn't windows admining just restarting them every hour or so?
[7:13] <techman2> lol
[7:14] * echo9 (~echo9@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:14] <techman2> I've spent most of today changing peoples outlook profiles remotely and talking them through iphone mail account setup.
[7:14] <techman2> very draining.
[7:14] <courpse> I wouldn't call that admining, :/
[7:14] <techman2> no I don't call that either.
[7:15] <techman2> doing admin work now though
[7:16] * echo9 (~echo9@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:16] * PiBot sets mode +v echo9
[7:17] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:17] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[7:18] <echo9> Was saying that the corporates won't allow a sysadmin to entirely remote proces his work
[7:19] <PReDiToR> Great use of a RasPi - SSH in and use a GPIO to flick a relay that powers off all the power sockets for the Windows PC PSUs. Of course, turning off write-caching would save a few errors.
[7:19] <courpse> I only want some RasPi's for medaboxes.
[7:20] <echo9> Nice idea but as i said in a real-time critical environment its actualy not feasible
[7:21] <echo9> @courpse same here
[7:22] * rz2k (~rz2k@2a01:4f8:150:1102::1d3) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:22] * PiBot sets mode +v rz2k
[7:22] <echo9> Yo rz
[7:24] <rz2k> sup
[7:24] <rz2k> so, Farnell placed 130+ lead time on new orders?
[7:25] <echo9> Yeah :/ thats just too sad; manufacturers messed up
[7:27] <GabrialDestruir> Hmm... how can I make it so an errror only shows up after hitting the submit button? .-.
[7:27] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:27] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[7:28] * Tobias (~Tobias@unaffiliated/tobias/x-2050245) Quit (Quit: ~)
[7:28] <echo9> @gab what submit button bro?
[7:28] <GabrialDestruir> I'm working on a PhP page, and it needs to show up only after the button is pushed .-.
[7:28] * Tobias| (~Tobias@unaffiliated/tobias/x-2050245) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:28] * PiBot sets mode +v Tobias|
[7:29] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:29] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[7:29] <courpse> GabrialDestruir, if ($_SERVER['REQUEST_METHOD'] == 'POST') { ... }
[7:29] <GabrialDestruir> Ohs! found it ^_^
[7:29] <Ben64> GabrialDestruir: that sounds like the easiest way to do it
[7:29] <GabrialDestruir> $submit = $_GET['submit']; if (!isset($submit))
[7:29] <courpse> GabrialDestruir.
[7:29] <courpse> No.
[7:30] <echo9> Aww php :) sweet. Brings back good 'ol college memories ;)
[7:30] <courpse> submit button on forms is not always sent with the headers.
[7:30] <GabrialDestruir> With this, it is.
[7:30] <courpse> Eg, tabing to button focus and pressing entry for some reason acts differently.
[7:30] <courpse> GabrialDestruir, Its browser dependent.
[7:30] <GabrialDestruir> Oh?
[7:31] <courpse> I recommend checking if $_SERVER['REQUEST_METHOD'] is POST, or check for a different field of your form.
[7:31] <courpse> Not your submit button.
[7:31] <hotwings> [23:23:37] <rz2k> so, Farnell placed 130+ lead time on new orders? WOW
[7:31] <hotwings> that is LAME
[7:31] <echo9> Sory gab i realy cnt help ya; now that i've been working on c++, sql
[7:32] <hotwings> rpi should just be relaunched 2013.. after everybody gets their shit together
[7:32] <echo9> & linux :p
[7:32] <courpse> GabrialDestruir, Type /msg php-bot submit post
[7:33] <echo9> @hotwings make it q6, 2012 by that time everyone will have their act together
[7:33] <PReDiToR> You can't really blame anyone except the fool that switched plain jacks for magnetic ones, can you?
[7:33] <echo9> Q6==6th quarter
[7:34] <hotwings> yes i got that
[7:34] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[7:34] <echo9> But ultimately we got to suffer
[7:34] <PReDiToR> Suffer? Is there a demotivational poster somewhere about first world problems? lol
[7:35] <Ben64> which tablet is better than the ipad 2
[7:35] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:35] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[7:35] <Ben64> and preferably cheaper
[7:35] <hotwings> piad3
[7:35] <hotwings> ipad3
[7:35] <Ben64> :|
[7:35] <Ben64> non apple
[7:35] <echo9> Moreover, IMO manufacturers are to blamed for
[7:35] <PReDiToR> When they get it right, vis a vis the wifi/gps signals, the Transformer will be.
[7:35] * sven1994 (~svens@p4FC2FF8E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:35] <hotwings> everyone is to blame for the fiasco that is rpi
[7:36] <hotwings> *so far
[7:36] <echo9> Lol
[7:36] <Axman6> the transformer tablets are the only android devices i've had any desire for
[7:36] <echo9> "Fiasco"? :D
[7:36] <Ben64> what about acer
[7:36] * hjubal (~hjubal@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:36] * hjubal (~hjubal@ Quit (Changing host)
[7:36] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:36] * PiBot sets mode +v hjubal
[7:36] * PiBot sets mode +v hjubal
[7:36] <Axman6> yeah what? RPi is amazingly successful, which makes it a fiasco?
[7:36] <echo9> Acer sucks ew :p
[7:36] <PReDiToR> fiasco? Strong word. There is a product, it has been designed, made and hit budget, it will ship as soon as it passes testing. That's
[7:36] * ftoad (~miloh@unicornpee.net) has left #raspberrypi
[7:37] <hotwings> it has already passed testing..
[7:37] <Ben64> transformer is expensiver
[7:37] <GabrialDestruir> Usually don't they make sure it passes testing BEFORE putting it on sale?
[7:37] <PReDiToR> It failed testing. Wrong RJ45.
[7:37] * uen| is now known as uen
[7:38] <hotwings> i guess you missed the posts about how they were going to china to inspect the boards first hand and test some.. and it passed
[7:38] <echo9> Tht too 10k pieces :D AWESOME! Heee. .
[7:38] <echo9> First lot*
[7:38] <PReDiToR> Sure, the alpha and beta boards had the right parts, then for the long run they saved some cash (IMO) and that spec change made them fail.
[7:39] <GabrialDestruir> Okay finally done with this .-.
[7:39] <PReDiToR> "they" being the factory, not the Foundation.
[7:39] <hotwings> they did not go inspect beta boards. rpi didnt make 10,000 beta boards
[7:40] <echo9> @pred Gotcha
[7:40] <PReDiToR> RPF didn't make 10,000 boards with the wrong component on either.
[7:40] <hotwings> anyways, youre nuts if you think bringing this product to market has been a success.. its been one screw up after another.. hence, fiasco
[7:40] <echo9> 10k beta boards ? Who said tht?
[7:40] <PReDiToR> It has taken longer than expected, but faster than Duke Nukem Forever or the Phantom Console lol
[7:40] <GabrialDestruir> Bah. The release boards weren't tested before they went on sale.
[7:41] <hotwings> PReDiToR - you can debate the differences between what you think and what rpi said, with rpi. doesnt matter to me, and this has been a fiasco
[7:41] <Axman6> hotwings: it's only a screw up in your eyes because they've told you about the problems they've had, not because they screwed up any more than anyone else would have
[7:41] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[7:41] * Maccer (~Maccer@ Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:41] <PReDiToR> @hotwings - Fair enough.
[7:41] <hotwings> Axman6 - lets not wander around in the realm of your imagination.. we can stick to the facts here
[7:42] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:42] <Axman6> if you're so upset, why don;t you just go and buy a beaglebone and leave rpi to fester in their own incompetence?
[7:42] <PReDiToR> I'm surprised that it takes such a short time to hand-rework the boards. From what I can gather it won't put back shipping of the first 10K by that much.
[7:44] <GabrialDestruir> They should of waited for the boards to arrive and check them before any of them ever went on sale.
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[7:44] * PiBot sets mode +v Maccer
[7:44] <Axman6> PReDiToR: hundreds of people working for 12 hours a day can get a lot of menial tasks done in a very short time =)
[7:44] <rz2k> am I right, that rpi is heavily sponsored by broadcom? also, another question, if rpi is license manufactured, why so big giant as farnell doesnt have like 20k of stock in some weeks, they can do that.
[7:44] * echo9 (~echo9@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[7:45] <PReDiToR> Axman6, I wouldn't like to be one of them, but I do think that the one guy who swapped parts should have to do a thousand without help lol
[7:45] <Axman6> rz2k: i don't think farnell anticipated such high demand, and it was in their interests not to over invest and make 100k off the bat without knowing if they'd actually sell any
[7:45] * _n0 (~ff@70-36-144-201.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
[7:46] <Ben64> the "launch" was handled terribly
[7:46] <hotwings> with the right soldering gun and attachment you can do those connectors really fast... not that i would want to sit around all day doing something extremely repetitive like that
[7:46] <GabrialDestruir> Everything since the "launch" has been handled poorly
[7:46] <Ben64> they didn't even have them on hand when they "launched"
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[7:46] * PiBot sets mode +v _n0
[7:46] <Ben64> they could have avoided all the problems by saying "hey we'll start preorders soon"
[7:47] <PReDiToR> And yet, how annoyed would everyone be if the RPF just said "sorry we've been crap guys, we're closing now, goodbye"?
[7:47] <Ben64> so then no rush to be the first
[7:47] * _n0 is now known as _n0-
[7:47] <rz2k> Axman6: thats actually weird, because in marketing way rpi is huge success and that was known before "launch", farnell should have know that and make big pre-stock.
[7:47] <rz2k> somethings missing here :)
[7:47] <Ben64> its just the one factory making them i think
[7:47] <GabrialDestruir> Except neither RS or Farnell believed that they'd get such huge stock....
[7:47] <Axman6> i think they wanted to get them to people as soon as possible, so they announced them before they had the final, product on hand. which if the boards had been manufactured properly would have worked out very well for customers, but it didn't
[7:47] <PReDiToR> A poll on the blog might have given an indication, but that would have to be taken with a very large pinch of salt
[7:48] <Ben64> don't count your chickens before they hatch
[7:48] <GabrialDestruir> then from the sounds of it, Farnell and RS went ahead and used the same people in china the original batches came from
[7:48] <hotwings> rpif just got a fast hard lesson in business 101.. keep your mouth shut until youre market-ready product is sitting in the distributors warehouse
[7:48] <GabrialDestruir> Also....
[7:49] <Axman6> rz2k: "huge success" in our eyes and in farnell's eyes are very different scales. farnell are the sort of company who works in the realms of millions of parts per order, not the tiny numbers the rpi is looking at selling.
[7:49] <GabrialDestruir> If you're licensing a company to do all the heavy work.... make them understand how much stock they should actually be expected to sell.
[7:49] <GabrialDestruir> -.-
[7:50] <hotwings> thats not how licensing works
[7:50] <Tobias|> Shut up hotwings can't you see I'm a person on the internet and therefore know everything!? D:
[7:50] <Axman6> yes rpi customers crashed their websites, fornell and RS would not be used to such high numbers of people. but they're certainly used to much much higher volume orders than the rpi customers would produce
[7:51] <PReDiToR> Tobias|, Internets are SERIOUS BUSINESS!
[7:51] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:51] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[7:51] <rz2k> also, that was huge lol that farnells site was down in minutes :)
[7:51] <PReDiToR> 4 minutes to zero service
[7:51] <Ben64> its not hard to crash a website
[7:51] <Axman6> indeed, but also to be expected. it's not a high demand website
[7:51] <PReDiToR> 403 at 5 past
[7:51] <hotwings> Tobias| if you know everything, tell us whats inside a blackhole :)
[7:52] <GabrialDestruir> It doesn't matter if each person is only currently ordering 1, the volume is still huge. Farnell and RS should of taken that into account before they ever put the product on sale.
[7:52] <Ben64> hotwings: thats easy
[7:52] <Axman6> hotwings: what's inside a black hole is pretty well understood...
[7:52] <Tobias|> Well this just got awkward.
[7:52] <hotwings> wrong answer
[7:52] <Ben64> answer = matter
[7:53] <hotwings> thats one theory, yeah
[7:53] <Ben64> thats _the_ theory
[7:53] <GabrialDestruir> Nothing is actually in a blackhole because blackholes don't actually have an inside.... they just crush all matter down to atomic size and then they're done with it >.>
[7:53] <PReDiToR> Lots of matter, not much space.
[7:54] <PReDiToR> And a few Higgs bosons that are hiding from the LHC because they're shy.
[7:54] <hotwings> there are several theories. nothing proven. the answer is there is no answer yet
[7:54] <Ben64> there is an answer
[7:54] <Ben64> its matter
[7:55] <GabrialDestruir> matter is an answer that is correct regardless.... unless you believe blackholes leak into other universes.... or other time lines.... or something
[7:55] <GabrialDestruir> Then I suppose.... matter would still be the correct answer.
[7:55] <hotwings> there is no correct answer because the answer is still unknown
[7:55] * Tobias| is now known as Tobias
[7:56] <Axman6> ...
[7:56] <PReDiToR> Or you figure that the pressure in a black hole transforms matter into another state, like energy.
[7:56] <GabrialDestruir> That could be a possiblity too....
[7:56] <techman2> wow this conversation turned to physics fast.
[7:56] <Axman6> you understand that's a completely paradoxical sentence right hotwings?
[7:56] <GabrialDestruir> but that'd lead to the question.... where is all that energy going?
[7:57] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:57] <PReDiToR> It could be cancelling out with anti-energy, the matter could be transmuting into anti-matter ... it's a great mind game.
[7:57] * johnLAPACHE (~lpche@juv34-1-82-225-182-193.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:57] <Ben64> its not a great mystery, black holes aren't magical
[7:57] <Ben64> they are just super dense balls of matter
[7:57] <Ben64> its not rocket surgery
[7:57] <hotwings> Axman6 - no its not. questions that havent been answered yet are not paradoxes
[7:58] <GabrialDestruir> Though.... if the energy is being canceled out... or the matter is being canceled out....
[7:58] <hotwings> Ben64 - you seem to know more about blackholes than every astrophysicist in the world..
[7:58] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[7:58] <GabrialDestruir> that'd mean that black holes destroy matter/energy
[7:58] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:58] <Axman6> questions which haven't been answered yet don't mean they have no answer. also, just because an answer hasn't been proven beyond a doubt to be true doesn't mean it's not true, which is what you're implying
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[7:58] <Ben64> i know roughly the same information as every astrophysicist
[7:58] <PReDiToR> Nice thought, eh? The second law of thermodynamics, nixed by a black hole!
[7:59] <GabrialDestruir> lmao
[7:59] <Axman6> hotwings: you seem to know a hell of a lot less about blackholes than every astrophysicist on earth ;)
[7:59] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[7:59] <GabrialDestruir> Then again....
[8:00] <GabrialDestruir> Black Holes could be a result and cause of the big bang >.>
[8:00] <hotwings> Axman6 - please provide a quote where i said or implied anything about something being untrue. good luck
[8:00] <GabrialDestruir> well not the result so much....
[8:00] <Axman6> "there is no correct answer because the answer is still unknown" implies that there is no answer if the answer is unknown, which is just silly
[8:01] <PReDiToR> They are just litle eddies in the ether, space is just the surface of the sea. Hyperspace, now that's where the real action is at.
[8:01] <GabrialDestruir> But think about it this way..... once all matter in the universe is sucked into a blackhole, and then super condensed, those blackholes will suck themselvse up into an ultimate super condensed matter.... which would end up exploding.....
[8:01] <GabrialDestruir> recreating the universe.
[8:01] <hotwings> Axman6 - do you not know the difference between something that is incorrect, and something that is untrue?......sigh
[8:02] <PReDiToR> And then Multivax said ... Let there be light.
[8:03] <GabrialDestruir> It doesn't truly explain where matter came from originally.... but it could explain the big bang, black holes, the works. >.>
[8:03] <PReDiToR> +1 Internets to anyone who gets that reference.
[8:04] <Axman6> hotwings: i don't see your point. you're saying that people are wrong because don't know with 100% confidence what the answer is, so any answer must be wrong? you're making no sense
[8:05] <_av500_> asimov
[8:05] <GabrialDestruir> "There is No Answer" cannot be the only correct answer, for that would contradict itself.
[8:05] <hotwings> Ben64 just for fun you should read up on singularities.. all the to theories agree they sit at a blackholes core.. once you understand what a singularity is, youll understand why blackholes are not "super dense balls of matter"..
[8:06] <Ben64> for actual information you should read up on black holes, and you shall realize they are super dense balls of matter
[8:06] <hotwings> youre funny
[8:07] <hotwings> you have no clue how funny though
[8:07] <Ben64> its sad how you think you're right
[8:08] <Ben64> maybe i can find you a bill nye episode to explain it to you
[8:08] <hotwings> good luck with that
[8:08] <PReDiToR> That was a nice conversation. I'd rather have Bill Hicks explain it though.
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[8:08] <hotwings> its sad that you clearly are trying to pass off your own assumptions, even though all the leading theories disagree with what youve said completely
[8:09] <Ben64> the theories all agree with me
[8:10] <hotwings> you obviously arent studied on this subject. i doubt you could even name the top 5 astrophysicists, or theoretical physicists. for that matter, i doubt you could even name the top 5 theories
[8:10] <Axman6> hey, you know what's an awesome theory? you two taking this to PM, fighting it out be providing references to back each of your statements up, and then coming back and tell us who the victor is
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[8:10] <GabrialDestruir> What I'm reading about Black Hole Singularities is stating that a singular region has zero volume, but that it contains all the mass of a black hole, and therefore has infinite density.....
[8:10] <Ben64> hotwings: you assume too much
[8:11] <Tobias> The top five astrophysicists. Wat
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[8:11] <hotwings> Ben64 - you seem like the type of person who gets their science news from a cartoon
[8:11] <Tobias> I assume they all come together yearly to joust and create an arbitrary leaderboard, then? :)
[8:11] <Ben64> still assumptions
[8:11] <Ben64> very logical of you
[8:11] <PReDiToR> - /join #blackholetheory - come on, this is Freenode, there MUst be a channel with astrophysicists in it!
[8:11] <Ben64> no wonder you're so wrong
[8:12] <GabrialDestruir> http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/010912a.html
[8:12] <GabrialDestruir> There
[8:12] * petschge is an astrophysicist right here in the channel
[8:12] <hotwings> wrong..? like i said, youre funny
[8:12] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-91-124.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[8:13] <Ben64> here watch this
[8:13] <Ben64> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1iJXOUMJpg
[8:14] * MoMP72 (~ingemar@c83-252-89-132.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[8:15] <petschge> black holes are indeed vaccum solutions to the Einstein Field Equations. so no matter anywhere in black hole
[8:16] <petschge> that said we don't really understand where the matter goes that was collapsing to form the black hole
[8:16] * Fragmint (~znc@108-77-196-171.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:16] <Fragmint> so... many... people...
[8:16] <petschge> most likely we wont find out till we have a good theory of quantumgravity
[8:16] * Xark_ is patiently waiting for viable quantum gravity theories (for a while now...). :)
[8:17] <hotwings> no no petschge.. theyre "they are just super dense balls of matter, its not rocket surgery".. at least according to Ben64's imagination.
[8:17] <Fragmint> anyone have an approximate ETA when another batch of raspberry pis is gonna ship?
[8:17] <hotwings> -theyre
[8:17] <Ben64> its not my imagination
[8:18] <petschge> I don't care if it is your imagination or your cat. the math i did for my masters thesis tells me differently
[8:18] <hotwings> lol .. whats next, you trying to convince us the earth is flat or the moon is made of cheese?
[8:19] <hotwings> ^^ to Ben64
[8:19] <Fragmint> sir, the moon is made of cheese.
[8:19] <Axman6> or maybe hotwings getting his high school certificate on how to act like an adult?
[8:19] <Ben64> you're not impressing anyone by insults
[8:19] <Ben64> only hurting your own arguments
[8:19] <Fragmint> nasa has been funded by the milk lobby for the past 75 years
[8:20] <petschge> just what makes you think that there is a dense ball of matter in the center of the black hole
[8:20] <hotwings> the truth in my argument cant be altered by any insults or your imagination
[8:20] <Ben64> petschge: what makes you think there isnt
[8:20] * zarac (~zarac@84-55-97-138.customers.ownit.se) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[8:21] <petschge> the math of General Relativity
[8:21] <PReDiToR> Anyone have Stephen Hawking's phone number?
[8:21] <hotwings> btw, i havent said anything insulting. if thats your interpretation, its likely due to your insecurity about being wrong or publicly embarassed
[8:22] <Ben64> petschge: then where does the gravity come from, or how do stars form black holes if they contain no matter?
[8:22] <Xark_> Anybody who isn't familiar with the "holographic principle" (aka, how much data is it physically possible to put into a hard drive), may enjoy this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHgi6E1ECgo (there are other "slicker" videos, but this one has the best description IMO)
[8:23] <Dagger2> it's not even GR; to maintain a ball shape requires some opposing force, but black holes collapse into black holes precisely because there's no opposing force that can keep the component bits apart
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[8:23] * PiBot sets mode +v Flea86
[8:23] <Dagger2> nobody's arguing that there's no matter in a black hole, but describing it as a dense ball is not really right
[8:24] <petschge> Ben64: that is a rather good question. we don't really know. what we know is that there exists a solution to the field equations, that acts on the outside like a very simple object with a mass, a spin and a charge and that has an horizont even light can't leave.
[8:24] <GabrialDestruir> Actually... that's exactly what's being said.
[8:24] <Ben64> <petschge> black holes are indeed vaccum solutions to the Einstein Field Equations. so no matter anywhere in black hole
[8:24] <Ben64> i saw "no matter"
[8:24] <GabrialDestruir> Two people now have said no matter exists in a black hole
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[8:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[8:25] <hotwings> Xark_ - did you know theres a theory that the universe is a 2d projection of the information located on the event horizon of a blackhole :)
[8:25] <Dagger2> uh, ok, they are indeed arguing that
[8:25] <Dagger2> at least we've found something we can agree on then
[8:25] <petschge> Ben64: to be precise the Einstein Tensor vanished
[8:25] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[8:25] <Xark_> hotwings: Absolutely. Great stuff. I have been reading pretty much every book on black holes for like 30+ years. :)
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[8:26] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[8:26] <petschge> Dagger2: that's what the math tells us. doesn't make it any easier to understand
[8:26] <hotwings> Xark_ - :)
[8:26] <Xark_> I highly recommend The Black Hole War (and I think there is a pretty good science video too).
[8:27] <GabrialDestruir> So really... any explination for a Black Hole violates the laws of the universe.... eh?
[8:27] <Ben64> i'd rather believe all the people with doctorates that say black holes are comprised of matter
[8:27] <Tobias> Oh, wow, we're still on the topic of black holes
[8:28] <Xark_> (it is also a great read from a book point of view Stephen Hawkins vs Leonard Susskind). :)
[8:29] <Xark_> Tobias: Looks like it. Well, have you got your RPi yet? :-D
[8:29] <Tobias> I haven't even ordered one yet :P
[8:29] <Tobias> Meanwhile, I just spent $30 buying an arduino+motor controller+few RF components from a shady looking Chinese website
[8:30] <petschge> Ben64: it would be nice and it doesn't change the external field much. but it is most likely wrong and you should be careful believing them in important things
[8:30] <Xark_> Tobias: Sounds fun.
[8:30] <Ben64> but its literally what they do for a living
[8:30] <hotwings> Ben64 - what theory have read that says black holes are "super dense balls of matter" ?
[8:30] <Ben64> people like michio kaku
[8:31] <Ben64> i'm not taking to a physician about black holes
[8:31] <PReDiToR> From my torrent client download popularity seems to be Fedora > Debian > Arch. Is this the same as others are finding?
[8:32] * Xark_ missed the beginning of this discussion. Debating if black holes contain matter or a vacuum?
[8:33] <hotwings> no
[8:33] <hotwings> i jokingly asked: [23:51:09] <hotwings> Tobias| if you know everything, tell us whats inside a blackhole :)
[8:34] <Xark_> hotwings: Ahh. I see, thanks. :)
[8:34] <hotwings> then Ben64's imagination started rambling on like:
[8:34] <hotwings> [23:56:48] <Ben64> its not a great mystery, black holes aren't magical
[8:34] <hotwings> [23:56:57] <Ben64> they are just super dense balls of matter
[8:34] <hotwings> [23:57:02] <Ben64> its not rocket surgery
[8:34] <Ben64> again, not imagination
[8:34] <hotwings> apparently one of the biggest questions and mysteries in science is 'not rocket surgery' to him
[8:35] <Ben64> that a fact, its neither rocketry nor surgery
[8:35] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[8:35] <hotwings> a fact? how deep of a hole do you want to dig for yourself? youre already too far down to climb out as it is.
[8:36] * Syliss (~Syliss@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[8:36] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-8-156-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[8:36] <Ben64> ok, give me one example showing how a black hole is a rocket or surgery, or a combination of the two
[8:37] <hotwings> those are _your_ words, explain it yourself.
[8:37] * Xark_ notes the answer it seems may depend on if you are talking about the "black hole" that you are already inside the event horizon of or a nested one where you are outside it's event horizon. :)
[8:37] <hotwings> on second hand, dont. ive had enough of your imagination for a while
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[8:39] * Xark_ pretty much agrees with Ben64 on that. It is just a ball of matter that is too small vs it's mass (i.e., too dense of a hard drive - or any information storage device).
[8:40] <Ben64> well i didn't come up with that idea, its been around for a long time
[8:41] <hotwings> the idea that the earth was flat had been around for a long time too...
[8:41] <hotwings> same with the sun revolving around the earth
[8:41] <Ben64> ok, you must be a troll at this point
[8:43] <hotwings> pointing out a problem with your comment is trolling huh? ... yup, youre definitely insecure about this blackhole conversation
[8:43] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[8:43] <Ben64> comparing a well tested theory to primitive ideas that the earth is flat is preposterous
[8:43] <GabrialDestruir> It is thought that the matter that goes into a black hole gets crushed into a tiny point at the center called a "singularity". ???That's the only place that matter is, so if you were to fall into a black hole you wouldn't hit a surface as you would with a normal star. ???Once it's there, it's there. ???As far as we know, nothing would survive going into a black hole. ???People sometimes talk about "wormholes" as
[8:44] <hotwings> a well tested theory? come on... _you_ are definitel trolling
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[8:44] * techman2 (6e8e8036@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: fell into a black hole.)
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[8:45] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: That is what current theory "states", but a number of scientists aren't buying that and think quantum properties of the universe come into play. Infinitely dense, is basically a division by zero error in the current theory. :)
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[8:45] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[8:45] <Ben64> everyone except some guy on irc named after a food agrees black holes are comprised of matter
[8:45] * Mavy-bnc is now known as Mavy
[8:45] <GabrialDestruir> For it to be a theory it has to be a widely accepted hypthosesis in which multiple scientists agree could be possible.
[8:45] * petschge isnt't named like food
[8:45] <hotwings> Ben64 - why do you persist? you very obviously are not studied in this subject.
[8:45] <GabrialDestruir> The world being flat was never a "theory" it was a supersition.
[8:46] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: However, nobody has a great theory yet (so it is an active area of debate).
[8:46] <petschge> and as I already said black holes are vaccuum solutions
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[8:46] <Ben64> but you cannot apply general relativity to it like you apparently are
[8:46] <GabrialDestruir> That would also be a theory, petschge, not a fact, nor a proven law.
[8:46] <Ben64> you have to bring quantum physics into it
[8:46] <hotwings> earth being flat was a theory, just as the sun revolving around the earth was a theory
[8:46] <petschge> you sure can until a better theory is around
[8:47] <petschge> and yes you'd need a quantum theory
[8:47] <petschge> and yes I have done a few quantum loop calculations
[8:47] <Ben64> you seem like a smart guy, but i'll still go ahead and believe the rest of the scientific community
[8:47] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: I agree, but the current widely accepted theory (or theories) are surely "incomplete" (not too much debate on that).
[8:47] <GabrialDestruir> The earth being flat was thought to be a fact, up until someone decided to challenge that way of thinking.
[8:47] <petschge> and no quantum loop theory goesn't give an answer yet
[8:48] <hotwings> the rest of the scientific community, meaning Ben64's imagination
[8:48] <GabrialDestruir> Exactly as the sun revolving around the earth was fact until that line of thinking was challenged.
[8:48] <hotwings> because the real scientific community disagrees
[8:48] <Ben64> hotwings: all i see is you throwing mediocre insults at me, and providing no rational information
[8:48] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[8:48] <hotwings> the sun revolving around the earth has never been fact
[8:49] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Ok, however, instead of fact, just say "widely accepted theory". :)
[8:49] <Ben64> i never said it was
[8:49] <GabrialDestruir> Any matter that disappears across the event horizon of a black hole makes the hole more massive and larger. ???Inside the event horizon, the matter probably keeps on falling towards the very center of the black hole. ???What happens when it gets to the center, we don't really know. Several years ago, it was thought that matter reaching the center of a black hole might reappear somewhere else in the Universe by be
[8:50] <hotwings> Ben64 - youre convinced you know the answer to one of the greatest mysteries of the universe. you cant be helped until you can admit you dont know what youre talking about
[8:50] <Ben64> its not a mystery
[8:50] <GabrialDestruir> Any matter that disappears across the event horizon of a black hole makes the hole more massive and larger. Inside the event horizon, the matter probably keeps on falling towards the very center of the black hole. What happens when it gets to the center, we don't really know. Several years ago, it was thought that matter reaching the center of a black hole might reappear somewhere else in the Universe by being th
[8:50] <GabrialDestruir> Gah
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[8:50] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[8:50] <Ben64> do a little bit of research, for your own education
[8:50] <GabrialDestruir> Any matter that disappears across the event horizon of a black hole makes the hole more massive and larger. Inside the event horizon, the matter probably keeps on falling towards the very center of the black hole.
[8:50] <GabrialDestruir> What happens when it gets to the center, we don't really know. Several years ago, it was thought that matter reaching the center of a black hole might reappear somewhere else in the Universe by being thrown out of a "white hole". No good evidence for white holes has been found, and they might not exist.
[8:51] <hotwings> i have done tons of it.. thats why i know you dont know what youre talking about. petschge has done his share, which is why he knows the same
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[8:51] <petschge> the problem with that area is that it is very far from beeing solved and crackpot ideas and brilliant papers apperr on arxiv. and it's very hard to tell them appart.
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[8:52] <hotwings> Ben64 - i asked you what theory you read that suggests the black hole is a "super dense ball of matter"... you conveniently didnt answer the question
[8:52] <petschge> so "do you own researxh" is very hard beyond standard GR
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[8:52] <Ben64> look up anything on black holes
[8:52] <Ben64> they all say its made of matter
[8:52] <Xark_> Ben64: It is not a "mystery" that the matter is "inside" the black hole (we measure its mass), but nobody knows if it is a singularity (i.e., infinitely dense point).
[8:53] <Ben64> i was never talking about the singularity
[8:53] <petschge> and it will tell you that it _starts_ from dense balls of matter and evols to a singularity
[8:53] <hotwings> no.. they all say matter goes in. none of them know what happens to the matter, or what is actually in a black hole.
[8:53] <Xark_> Ben64: Ok, sorry, I apologize.
[8:53] <Ben64> just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
[8:54] <GabrialDestruir> So your saying all matter that goes into a black hole cease to exist.
[8:54] <Ben64> it adds to the mass of the black hole
[8:54] <hotwings> Ben64 - please cite the theory which you have read that suggests anything youre claiming
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[8:55] <petschge> well. his claim of "matter goes in and adds to the total mass, no matter where it ends up living" is indeed correct
[8:55] <swp_> Oh, and by the way, they're not black at all, but red with blue spots ;)
[8:55] * Xark_ agrees with Ben64 on that too.
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[8:56] <GabrialDestruir> I never saw Ben say "no matter where it ends up"
[8:57] <hotwings> matter goes in.. we observe that, it is fact. what happens to the matter is completely theoretical
[8:57] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: OK, but if you delete that part, it is still correct.
[8:57] <Ben64> we don't really observer that though hotwings
[8:57] <Ben64> observe*
[8:58] <petschge> we observe stuff in radio and x-ray that is well comaptibke with an accretion disk
[8:58] <weuxel> Is it out yet?
[8:58] <GabrialDestruir> To observe things falling into a black hole would mean we could actually see a black hole, my understanding is that it's impossible to see a black hole, only the absence of space/light and matter disappearing into space/light.
[8:58] <hotwings> no? but you believe you can observe the mass of a black hole, even though it has no volume... interesting
[8:58] <petschge> and within 5 years we'll have a direct radio image of the event horizont
[8:59] <petschge> hotwings: the ergosphere has a well defined volume
[8:59] <PReDiToR> Within 5 years we will be able to order a RasPi and have it delivered in 5 working days =)
[8:59] <swp_> petschge, but we're dealing with the egosphere here :)
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[9:00] <Ben64> due to the way the black hole distorts spacetime, we (as outside observers) cannot see matter enter the event horizon
[9:00] <hotwings> we're not talking about an egosphere you mean
[9:00] <GabrialDestruir> You may already know this, but there are two parts of a black hole that astronomers often refer to -- the singularity and the event horizon. ???The event horizon is the "point of no return" from a black hole -- anything inside the event horizon will stay inside the black hole. ???Inside the event horizon, at the center of the black hole, is a singularity -- a near-zero volume where all the mass is mashed together
[9:00] <GabrialDestruir> So, when light crosses the event horizon of a black hole, it will get pulled into that singularity and will be trapped there. ???All matter and light that are pulled into the black hole end up in that singularity, adding to the mass of the black hole. ???And, as far as we know, they're stuck there forever.
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[9:01] <GabrialDestruir> For a singularity to have mass, it must be concluded that it consists of matter.
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[9:02] <petschge> n/win 7
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[9:11] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[9:11] <IT_Sean> Good morning #raspberrypi
[9:13] <hotwings> hi
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[9:13] <hotwings> bacon, eggs, hash browns, and orange juice compliments of GabrialDestruir
[9:14] <GabrialDestruir> o.O
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[9:14] <GabrialDestruir> Not likely....
[9:14] <GabrialDestruir> they got lost in a singularity ^_^
[9:14] <hotwings> singularity must be your pet name for your belly :)
[9:15] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[9:15] * Xark_ supplies the croissants and cappuccino to everyone (quick enjoy before any possible information paradox...). :)
[9:15] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder..... if we could build an maintain blackholes that never grew... would they make decent trashcans? >.>
[9:15] <GabrialDestruir> and maintain*
[9:16] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose build would be "create" and maintain would be "contain"
[9:16] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Better than that, we could generate "green" power from black holes tossing our trash in. :)
[9:17] <GabrialDestruir> That'd be awesome >.>
[9:17] <GabrialDestruir> Infinite power source....
[9:17] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: No problem if they grow (as long as there isn't one in my back-yard). :)
[9:17] <GabrialDestruir> I was thinking like... a literal every day trashcan....
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[9:18] <GabrialDestruir> that somehow contains a blackhole in it that you could toss trash in....
[9:18] <PReDiToR> That's eactly what a Mr Fusion does
[9:18] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Well if you could have a small one, and let it radiate away its mass with heat at the right rate, it would work great. :)
[9:19] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: (never mind the x-rays and gamma rays of course...)
[9:19] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose though... the only problem with that idea is you would slowly and eventually run out of various minerals as they were all tossed in black holes converted into heat.... etc
[9:19] <GabrialDestruir> As opposed to those minerals/materials/whatever, being recycled eventually....
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[9:21] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Well, yes, you might run out of planet (black holes aren't picky about what they eat). :)
[9:21] <GabrialDestruir> Then again, I suppose if we could contain a blackhole so it's not actively eating everything as a normal blackhole would.....
[9:21] <Ben64> it'd have to be a really really tiny one, and would probably dissipate due to hawking radiation
[9:22] <GabrialDestruir> we'd also have the ability to directly manipulate atoms to create new sources of minerals/materials/whatever
[9:22] <Xark_> Ben64: Yes, but (presumably) there is a "sustainable" size (if you have a constant inflow of matter to compensate for the mass lost to heat). [Not at all claiming practical...:) ]
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[9:23] <Ben64> the smaller a black hole is, the faster it dissipates
[9:23] <Ben64> so you'd have to feed it a lot
[9:23] <Xark_> PReDiToR: Yep, same idea, except Mr. Gravity. :)
[9:23] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose it'd be unfeasible for a black hole to exist in every house.... perhaps maybe every state/region or something.
[9:24] <GabrialDestruir> Dump all our trash into it to keep it alive, it produces energy
[9:24] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[9:24] <Xark_> Ben64: Well, as I mentioned you might run out of planet. :)
[9:24] <Ben64> would be better to wait for star trek replicators
[9:24] <Ben64> they can do matter<->energy quite easily
[9:25] <linagee> how is a replicator controlled? I2C? serial? SMbus?
[9:25] <GabrialDestruir> Star Trek Replicators.... lol
[9:25] <Ben64> linagee: touch screen or voice
[9:25] <GabrialDestruir> I'm waiting for teleportation delivery pad type things....
[9:25] <_av500_> iPort
[9:25] <GabrialDestruir> order something online, have it instantly teleported to your house in an hour or something, as opposed to several days
[9:25] <Xark_> Ben64: yeah, but with the black hole energy technology (like the Romulan's use) we would have to wait for dilithum crystal technology to power the replicators. :)
[9:25] <linagee> iPen
[9:25] <_av500_> the only drawback is that you arrive wearing a blakc turtleneck
[9:26] <linagee> what are the naming rules for apple products? must start with lower i and capital P?
[9:26] <GabrialDestruir> Possibly.
[9:26] <GabrialDestruir> Yes
[9:26] <Xark_> Ben64: Er, without. :)
[9:26] <_av500_> iTunes objects!
[9:26] <GabrialDestruir> Unless it's a Mac
[9:26] <Ben64> they take a name that already exists
[9:26] <Ben64> iphone = cisco
[9:26] <GabrialDestruir> iTunes isn't really a product....
[9:27] <linagee> Ben64: as if a thing like ownership matters
[9:27] <_av500_> iCloud rains on you
[9:27] <linagee> Ben64: apple can pretty much say "name your price" for anything. lol.
[9:27] <Ben64> then they try to sue people that use the letter i
[9:27] <Ben64> its all quite silly
[9:27] <GabrialDestruir> lmao
[9:27] <GabrialDestruir> iFake >.>
[9:27] <Ben64> or people that say "app"
[9:27] <_av500_> iLmao
[9:27] <linagee> does apple have more money than IBM, HP, and Dell combined?
[9:27] <_av500_> probably
[9:28] <Ben64> they have a insanely large amount of money
[9:28] <linagee> _av500_: surprising they haven't hired goons to go out and smash every PC out there
[9:28] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[9:28] <Ben64> an*
[9:28] <GabrialDestruir> Don't give them ideas!
[9:28] <Ben64> its my job to give apple the least amount of money possible
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[9:28] <GabrialDestruir> I refuse to pay their ridiculous prices for proprietary hardware!
[9:28] <Ben64> friend says "i want to get a mac"
[9:28] <_av500_> GabrialDestruir: they dont care
[9:28] <Ben64> i convince them not to
[9:29] <linagee> GabrialDestruir: I'm seriously considering buying apple. hah
[9:29] <Ben64> linagee: don't
[9:29] <Tobias> Not sure you could afford that, linagee
[9:29] <linagee> Ben64: why not? what comes up must go down?
[9:29] <GabrialDestruir> I have no problem with Mac Software.... it actually seems pretty decent.
[9:29] <Tobias> Unless you have a few billion dollars
[9:29] <GabrialDestruir> It's their hardware that's a pain in the ass.
[9:29] <Ben64> apple makes mediocre products that are hugely overprices
[9:29] <linagee> Tobias: you too can own apple for the low low price of ~$500
[9:29] <Ben64> s/s$/d/
[9:29] * linagee chants split split split!
[9:30] <GabrialDestruir> Go back in time....
[9:30] <GabrialDestruir> buy google
[9:30] <GabrialDestruir> it'll be better
[9:30] <Tobias> Pretty sure a single share with them costs more than that linagee :P
[9:30] <jzu> a friend of mine used to say: "To me, a computer is a machine with a C compiler. People think they want a computer. In fact, they want a Macintosh."
[9:30] <linagee> Tobias: its around $550
[9:30] <linagee> Tobias: single share
[9:30] <GabrialDestruir> Then again....
[9:30] <GabrialDestruir> if you really want money....
[9:30] <linagee> Tobias: more accurately, $545
[9:30] <GabrialDestruir> go back and buy oil xD
[9:30] <linagee> GabrialDestruir: ........
[9:30] <linagee> GabrialDestruir: yeah.
[9:31] <linagee> GabrialDestruir: apple has oil beat. :-O
[9:31] <linagee> AAPL > XOM
[9:31] <hotwings> GabrialDestruir - many many years ago a friend of mine was trying to convince me to put some money in a company called starbucks. he bought $150k @ $3/share. you have no idea how bad i would love to go back and let him convince me :)
[9:31] <GabrialDestruir> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UUmQXOAse-VnzuXHebX5I77g&v=98rtEm7sUsU
[9:31] <GabrialDestruir> this is awesome
[9:32] <linagee> hotwings: at $3 a share, you probably thought they were a mom and pop penny stock. :)
[9:32] <IT_Sean> heh
[9:32] <GabrialDestruir> Invest in my company.... I only need like..... serious money >.>
[9:32] <linagee> not all penny stocks go up. and stocks that are very high in trading range do strange things too. poor people can't even buy one share.
[9:32] * _av500_ throws in a fiver
[9:33] <linagee> _av500_: are you "going in" on one share of apple? lol
[9:33] <IT_Sean> I wouldn't mind going back in time and investing in Apple.
[9:33] <_av500_> or the lottery
[9:33] <IT_Sean> Be rich as **** today.
[9:33] <linagee> IT_Sean: heck no
[9:34] <GabrialDestruir> If I could go back into the past I'd totally invest in Apple, Google, and Oil >.>
[9:34] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[9:34] <linagee> IT_Sean: if you knew what you know now, you would not buy apple shares
[9:34] <PReDiToR> Here's a fiver, I'll have 10,000,000,000 shares of SCO please.
[9:34] <PReDiToR> Thank you for my ?4.99 change.
[9:34] <_av500_> PReDiToR: get in the line
[9:34] <linagee> IT_Sean: it would be infinitely smarter to buy apple call options.
[9:34] <linagee> IT_Sean: you'd be a quadrillionaire
[9:34] <IT_Sean> I could live with that.
[9:35] <IT_Sean> Right... so... Mind if i borrow your time machine?
[9:35] <Xark_> linagee: Heh, sounds like a bad thing to be (they would somehow make it illegal - since you would likely bankrupt the world). :)
[9:35] <GabrialDestruir> Bah... If I had a time machine I'd go back in the past and invest in the person who built the time machine
[9:35] <GabrialDestruir> so I could be rich
[9:35] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[9:36] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: No, go back and kill him so he doesn't compete with you. :)
[9:36] <linagee> if you drained all of the money out of the stock market, would people keep throwing new money in? or would they make it illegal for you to invest? hah
[9:36] <linagee> (imagine if you "won every time")
[9:37] <hotwings> apple better start giving some of that money to its shareholders instead of sitting on it
[9:37] <GabrialDestruir> But I'd still need him to build the time machine so I'd have it in the first place >.>
[9:37] <IT_Sean> Which is why you need to build your own time machine, invest in Apple, Google, and SBux, then come back to the present, destroy the timemachine, and use part of your new found wealth to fund research to proove that time travel is impossible.
[9:37] <linagee> hotwings: what if apple took all of its money and used it to secure an even larger loan?
[9:38] <_av500_> -ENOMONEY
[9:38] <Xark_> _av500_: +1 :)
[9:38] <_av500_> apple should buy california and close it down
[9:38] <linagee> IT_Sean: apple even surpases google now. :(
[9:38] <linagee> it makes it look tiny
[9:38] <_av500_> just make that donut headquarter a bit bigger
[9:38] <IT_Sean> "Nooo... no... This isn't a time machine! It's clearly just a Delorean with a loat of crap glued to it. Everyone knows time travel is impossible."
[9:38] <PReDiToR> I'd go forwards in time and get some future tech to help the planet realise that we're screwing ourselves by being greedy over material posessions.
[9:38] <hotwings> linagee - that would be totally foolish of them
[9:39] <Xark_> _av500_: Yeah, and probably more favorable tax status too. :)
[9:39] <linagee> IT_Sean: look at the ten year chart of apple versus google. google: 454% return. apple: 4321% return. no mistype.
[9:39] <_av500_> the cut at the fault lines and float it closer to china
[9:39] <_av500_> then
[9:39] <GabrialDestruir> Yes, but google has had less time to grow
[9:39] <linagee> 4,000% return = :-O
[9:39] <Xark_> "Thats no moon...thats the new Apple headquarters!"
[9:40] <hotwings> lol Xark_
[9:40] <linagee> I wonder how many politicians they own
[9:40] <_av500_> Xark_: xactly
[9:40] <linagee> oh I've got it - (and back on topic) the iPi!
[9:40] <_av500_> linagee: no need, politiciana own ipads
[9:40] <PReDiToR> There has to be a better system than democracy. It ain't working.
[9:40] <GabrialDestruir> Google and Apple may not be equally funded in the stocks....
[9:41] <IT_Sean> Except Apple wouldn't call it the death star. It'd be the iSphere, or something like that.
[9:41] <GabrialDestruir> but they are definitely competing with each other for world domination
[9:41] <IT_Sean> iBall
[9:41] <_av500_> iOrb
[9:41] <GabrialDestruir> iMoon
[9:41] <_av500_> iRule
[9:41] <IT_Sean> Oooh! I like iOrb
[9:41] <linagee> iPi, it only costs $350 for "model B" boards.
[9:41] <linagee> 10x markup. :)
[9:41] <GabrialDestruir> Or....
[9:41] <PReDiToR> In a white case
[9:41] <Xark_> linagee: Be a fun domain to own (until you got the takedown...). :)
[9:41] <_av500_> linagee: there wont be A vs B, that is not apple like
[9:41] <GabrialDestruir> they may just call it the i
[9:41] <_av500_> i in the sky
[9:42] <GabrialDestruir> and paint it like a giant eyeball
[9:42] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[9:42] <GabrialDestruir> always watching....
[9:42] <linagee> _av500_: orange flavored iPi, grape flavored iPi
[9:42] <IT_Sean> the iSphere would be all white, with a perfectly smooth surface, and at night, when everyone was asleep, the navigation lights would gently pulsate. :p
[9:43] <PReDiToR> You might find that it was REALLY hard to dock with though, using the space behicles that most people own.
[9:43] <IT_Sean> _av500_: No, but there would be a Pro model, that was %10 bigger and costs %60 more.
[9:43] <GabrialDestruir> You'd have to use a proprietary dock
[9:43] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[9:43] <IT_Sean> PReDiToR: Correct... it would only be compatable with apple's own craft. Call the iPod.. ..wait... ... dammit.
[9:43] <stuk_gen> Ooh are you told about the new iPi? its fantastic!
[9:43] <GabrialDestruir> iShip
[9:43] <GabrialDestruir> iShuttle
[9:44] <GabrialDestruir> iCraft
[9:44] <Hourd> iLose
[9:44] <_av500_> iOrb would shoot iBeams at iRebels
[9:44] <linagee> I'm an iPi. I'm a beagleboard. *beagleboard crashes*
[9:44] <PReDiToR> iVader
[9:44] <GabrialDestruir> Apples going to become the "Empire"?
[9:44] <IT_Sean> Yes.
[9:44] <_av500_> iMpire
[9:44] <PReDiToR> Thought GOOG had that one sewn up
[9:44] <GabrialDestruir> Damn it _av500_!
[9:45] <_av500_> goog will end up like em jedi
[9:45] <GabrialDestruir> I was gonna say that
[9:45] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[9:45] * Gadgetoi_ (~gadgetoid@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:45] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadgetoi_
[9:45] <_av500_> wearing silly robes and talking wrong
[9:45] <PReDiToR> Only if you believe "Do no evil" is still in effect.
[9:45] <GabrialDestruir> Google Rebels!
[9:45] <IT_Sean> Clearly, Google is the evil Dark Side.
[9:45] <stuk_gen> The New IPi have a new best Pi Market!
[9:45] * Gadgetoi_ is now known as Gadgetoid_
[9:45] * Xark_ is seriously staring to wonder how many OS X revisions until I have to pay to run a compiler...
[9:45] <hotwings> you know, i dont see why people think apple is so bad.. people willing spend their money on apple products. dont get mad at apple, get mad at people .. i guess
[9:45] <linagee> apple has goog beat on 10yr, 5yr, 1yr, 6mo, 3mo, 1mo, and 5day
[9:45] <_av500_> hotwings: oh, I do hate people
[9:45] <IT_Sean> people suck.
[9:46] <PReDiToR> "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog"
[9:46] * joukio (~joukio@82-171-18-219.ip.telfort.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:46] <IT_Sean> And the more i meet PReDiToR's dog, the more i like people.
[9:46] <GabrialDestruir> I have no problem with people who want to buy Apple Products.... only the fact they have more money than I
[9:46] <IT_Sean> ... which says alot about PReDiToR
[9:46] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[9:46] * joukio (~joukio@82-171-18-219.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:46] * PiBot sets mode +v joukio
[9:47] * IT_Sean uses his iPad to mock GabrialDestruir (there is an app for that!)
[9:47] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Only briefly before they buy said product. :)
[9:47] <_av500_> GabrialDestruir: start small, buy an ipod nano screen protector
[9:47] <_av500_> save up for the rest
[9:47] <linagee> IT_Sean: there's probably a free android app too. :P
[9:47] <IT_Sean> linagee: perhaps, but it's probably not as good.
[9:47] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:48] * Flea86 is now known as flea86|away
[9:48] <linagee> IT_Sean: because it was free? lol
[9:48] <IT_Sean> linagee: no, because it's for hemmDroid
[9:48] <Xark_> IT_Sean: lol. :)
[9:48] <hotwings> im not somebody that gets emotionally attached to a company so i dont really give a damn one way or the other. being a cheerleader isnt my thing whether its for or against
[9:48] <linagee> will apple kill android? :-(
[9:48] <_av500_> sure
[9:48] <IT_Sean> Eventually.
[9:48] <PReDiToR> GOOG is killing Android with their bad press
[9:48] * njh (~njh@ipv6.aelius.com) Quit (Changing host)
[9:48] * njh (~njh@pdpc/supporter/professional/njh) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:48] * PiBot sets mode +v njh
[9:49] <linagee> doesn't it just show how awesome android is though if apple sees them as a threat?
[9:49] <Ben64> android has been taking market share from apple
[9:49] <_av500_> if android kills ios, apple will provide free energy using sjobs rotating in his grave
[9:49] <_av500_> so either way, apple wins
[9:49] <PReDiToR> Android, notsomuch, Linux, yes.
[9:49] <Xark_> linagee: I doubt it. They could hurt it badly, but it code "code around" issues (and/or license).
[9:49] <hotwings> from what ive read from android users, android is killing itself
[9:49] <Xark_> linagee: could^
[9:49] <Ben64> android is 48.6%, apple is 29.5%
[9:49] <_av500_> hotwings: yes, all my android devices look sad and depressed
[9:49] <_av500_> i keep them away from sharp objects
[9:50] <hotwings> i see a lot of whining about lack of updates
[9:50] <PReDiToR> Android is cheap, but people are realising that cheap comes with a price. European lawmakers are getting snotty over privacy.
[9:50] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:50] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[9:50] <linagee> Ben64: crazy the diff in stock prices of apple versus goog though. goog is essentially giving it away. hah./
[9:50] <Mowee> Morning
[9:50] <GabrialDestruir> Indeed.
[9:50] <Ben64> yeah because google doesn't make all the phones
[9:50] <linagee> which might explain the higher market share
[9:50] <_av500_> hotwings: fully owned closed stack win on updates always
[9:50] <GabrialDestruir> A lot of Google's stuff is free
[9:50] * fletch49er (~chatzilla@cpc1-uddi18-0-0-cust338.uddi.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:50] * PiBot sets mode +v fletch49er
[9:51] <linagee> is android seen as a poor people's phone? :(
[9:51] <Snowl> no
[9:51] <hotwings> yup
[9:51] <PReDiToR> Not aon a Galaxy S2
[9:51] <linagee> good. its 10x better than iCrap
[9:51] <Ben64> oh, and winmo7 is 4.4%
[9:51] <GabrialDestruir> Depends who you ask.
[9:51] <jzu> a poor people's phone is mine :-)
[9:51] <linagee> Ben64: I laugh at every windows phone. shared memory. hahahahahahah!
[9:51] <Ben64> newer android is way better than iphones
[9:51] <hotwings> depends which phone
[9:51] <Xark_> hotwings: I think Androind is doing jsut fine. It has issues, but what platform doesn't (pick your poison).
[9:51] <PReDiToR> My ZTE Blade is a cheap "poor person's" Android.
[9:51] <linagee> Ben64: the only people using a windows phone are those that don't understand shared memory.
[9:51] <Ben64> i used an iphone4s recently, was sad
[9:52] <GabrialDestruir> Android is better than IOS
[9:52] <GabrialDestruir> for one reason.
[9:52] <GabrialDestruir> It's completely 100% customizable.
[9:52] <lennard> only one?
[9:52] <Ben64> well i'd rather have an iphone than a droid eris
[9:52] <linagee> Ben64: with a windows phone, your application processor can get hacked through your radio processor. lol. hooray shared memory spaces!
[9:52] <PReDiToR> iPhones are OK once you jailbreak
[9:52] <GabrialDestruir> It's an all encompassing reason
[9:52] <GabrialDestruir> :p
[9:52] <Ben64> but i have a good android phone
[9:52] <Ben64> so it wins
[9:52] <linagee> Ben64: (almost every other phone out there does not do this stupidness.)
[9:52] <Ben64> linagee: it wouldn't be windows without huge security holes
[9:52] * RaTTuS|BIG (~Rattus.bi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:52] * PiBot sets mode +v RaTTuS|BIG
[9:52] <linagee> Ben64: lol
[9:53] <linagee> Ben64: its awesome that people actually understand what that means in here.
[9:53] <Ben64> they're keeping the desktop experience on mobile
[9:53] <Ben64> :D
[9:53] <Xark_> Ben64: Excellent point, there are some crap Android phones out there (but I am happy with my decent one). :)
[9:53] <PReDiToR> More bugs needed! We can't release it yet!
[9:53] <Ben64> Xark_: which do you have?
[9:53] <Gadgetoid_> GabrialDestruir: that's also the reason why it's worse than iOS :D
[9:53] <hotwings> as long as my phone can handle calls, has web access, and a couple games to waste time with occassionally, im good. i couldnt care less what maker/OS the phone is
[9:53] <linagee> Ben64: there are so many memcpy's in the radio processor its not even funny. buf ovr over the air! :(
[9:54] <GabrialDestruir> Eh.
[9:54] <Ben64> i can't stand metro either
[9:54] <GabrialDestruir> There is that, the whole fragmentation.
[9:54] <Ben64> which is getting better
[9:54] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:54] * PiBot sets mode +v kalem
[9:54] <Xark_> Ben64: Droid 2 Global (nothing too fancy). Trying to decide if I need a keyboard enough to get the D4 or something like RazrMaxx next. :)
[9:54] <Gadgetoid_> GabrialDestruir: for the non-technical user, they're just landed with the carrier-raped version of Android and can't do much about it
[9:54] <PReDiToR> CyanogenMod seems to work on a lot of phones
[9:54] <Ben64> Xark_: nice... i had the droid 2 before this one
[9:55] <Ben64> have a droid 3 currently
[9:55] <GabrialDestruir> CM tends to help with Fragmentation
[9:55] <Ben64> i noticed the droid 2 has a tendency to soft reboot randomly
[9:56] <PReDiToR> If only someone would make the hardware, then go to MoDaCo, XDA-Developers or the CM team for the firmware.
[9:56] <Xark_> Ben64: As a programmer, I "highly annoys" me I need to pay $100 (and major hassle) to run little apps I build on my phone. :)
[9:56] <Gadgetoid_> PReDiToR: if *only*!
[9:56] <Gadgetoid_> That might be the day I consider getting an Android handset
[9:56] <linagee> Xark_: apple charges $100?
[9:56] <Ben64> Xark_: it costs exactly $0 to make and run apps on android :D
[9:56] <Ben64> i made my own speedometer for android
[9:57] <linagee> Ben64: it would cost like $25 if you want to put them in android market
[9:57] <linagee> Ben64: for the signature key thingy
[9:57] <Ben64> i made it for me
[9:57] <Xark_> Ben64: Yes, it is not nearly as stable as my D1 was. I do not like that (but it is not a cronic issue).
[9:57] <linagee> Ben64: (not that that's necessary. you can always just push the APK direclty)
[9:57] <GabrialDestruir> Yea.... but you don't NEED a key to sell Android apps....
[9:57] <Gadgetoid_> On Android you can also just wholesale copy a successful app, add a virus and sell that on the Market... it's great for all walks of developer
[9:57] <GabrialDestruir> You can program and sell it on your own site...
[9:58] <GabrialDestruir> as quite a few people have done
[9:58] <Ben64> yep
[9:58] <Ben64> nobody wants my app anyway (probably)
[9:58] <linagee> should it scare android users that an app can have direct control over the mic on android? hah.
[9:58] <Xark_> Ben64: Cool. I remember the using the tricorder to get the speed of trains and such (until Paramount pulled it for ST:NG bleeps).
[9:58] <Ben64> its just a simple speedometer that looks like the one in Back to the Future
[9:58] * fletch49er (~chatzilla@cpc1-uddi18-0-0-cust338.uddi.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356])
[9:58] * hotwings wonders how many virus protection software apps there are for android now
[9:59] <linagee> Do you wish to give CoolAppAwesomeFun permission to listen in to your conversations from the mic? (Y/N) people just click next next next. hah!
[10:00] <Xark_> Ben64: As a percentage, no. But some "high end" consumers know that if programmers are "free" then betters apps will be available (not one "channel").
[10:00] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f66bc73-74736162.cust.telenor.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:00] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f66bc73-74736162.cust.telenor.se) Quit (Changing host)
[10:00] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[10:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[10:00] * diplo (~diplo@cpc1-trow1-0-0-cust13.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:00] * PiBot sets mode +v diplo
[10:00] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if this update ATT is pushing is ICS...
[10:01] <linagee> GabrialDestruir: is that the carrier spyware thing?
[10:01] * arnd (arnd@nat/ibm/x-fwydunqdfbrvesrm) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:01] * PiBot sets mode +v arnd
[10:01] <GabrialDestruir> Ice Cream Sandwhich
[10:01] <hotwings> http://tabtimes.com/feature/ittech-security-privacy/2011/12/13/virus-watch-8-worst-android-infections-2011
[10:01] <hotwings> the reworked android logo there is kinda funny
[10:02] <hotwings> poor little bugger
[10:02] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Shouldn't be hard too hard to find out...is this for a phone you have?
[10:02] <GabrialDestruir> Yea, looking it up now. lol
[10:02] <linagee> hotwings: how many consumers understand the concept of a trojan horse app? (fully functional (possibly even cool), virus in background never alerts user or makes them think something is wrong.)
[10:02] <GabrialDestruir> Bah. it's gingerbread 2.3.6
[10:02] <Ben64> oh wow, 3MB/s download
[10:03] * Xark_ got a D2G update from Verizon a day or so ago too...
[10:03] <Ben64> the perks of downloading at 2am
[10:03] <GabrialDestruir> I should see if there's a CM9 rom for the atrix yet
[10:03] <Ben64> Xark_: oh? what was it
[10:03] <Ben64> GabrialDestruir: almost assuredly
[10:04] * rob_ (~rob@dust.cx) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:04] * PiBot sets mode +v rob_
[10:04] <rob_> anyone got a delivery yet?
[10:04] <GabrialDestruir> Oh yea.
[10:04] <GabrialDestruir> I got my Pi last week
[10:04] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-85.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:04] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[10:04] <Xark_> Ben64: Interesting, according to this http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-droid-2-global-update-rolling-out-now-20120308/ it is supposed to help with: Fixing performance issues, random power on and offs, low memory errors, camera settings being wiped after restarts and a few other pesky problems
[10:04] <linagee> someone should make their own phone. /me tries to pick and place 0201 resistors by hand. hah.
[10:04] <rob_> mines supposed to be delivered today but aren't they delayed?
[10:05] <Xark_> Ben64: Just what we were discussing. Cool. :)
[10:05] <Ben64> Xark_: nice
[10:05] <Ben64> i know a few people with d2's that will be happy
[10:05] <Ben64> rob_: i don't think they exist yet
[10:06] <hotwings> its already 2am! damn dst ripping me off!! >:(
[10:06] <rob_> ah ok
[10:06] <Ben64> motorola makes great phones, but crap software
[10:07] <Xark_> Ben64: I forgot about the update because I was just in Las Vegas. One thing I will mention is that casinos seem to "mess with" cell phones. I lose 3G and my phones time was off by two hours when in Las Vegas (and my normal time is Cali). This also happened to a friend with an iPhone4 from verizon. I wonder what is up with that.
[10:07] <linagee> Xark_: were you in vegas in august? lol
[10:07] <hotwings> it would be illegal for them to do so
[10:07] <Xark_> Ben64: Er, inside the casino (or hotel room). My theory this is so they sell WiFi for $$$
[10:07] <Ben64> they could have cellular access points inside
[10:07] <linagee> Xark_: any "security conventions" going on? hahaha
[10:07] <Ben64> last time i was there i tethered my dumbphone for free internet
[10:08] <Ben64> but only at 1x speed
[10:08] <Ben64> :D
[10:08] <Xark_> Ben64: That was my plan, but I had pretty much voice only in the hotel. Outside the front was 3G and "4 bars".
[10:08] <GabrialDestruir> Eh...
[10:08] <linagee> Xark_: are you sure you were on an official cell?
[10:08] <GabrialDestruir> it's illegal for a hotel to use jammers....
[10:08] <hotwings> Xark_ - you didnt happen to go in the Wynn did you?
[10:09] * heymaster (~heymaster@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:09] * PiBot sets mode +v heymaster
[10:09] <GabrialDestruir> It's not so much illegal for casinos to be conveniently cell proof
[10:09] <Xark_> linagee: I don't know, it said Verizon on my phone...
[10:09] <linagee> Xark_: LOL
[10:09] <Ben64> its been a couple years since i was there
[10:09] <Ben64> but i was in the stratosphere, and my phones worked
[10:09] <hotwings> my phone worked pretty much everywhere there
[10:09] <Xark_> linagee: It was weird and the thought did occur to me that it could be fishy (I just returned today BTW).
[10:09] * Spikey (~chatzilla@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:09] * PiBot sets mode +v Spikey
[10:10] <linagee> GabrialDestruir: here's an interesting thought - are the morals of the guys who run COs the same througout the country?
[10:10] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:10] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[10:11] <GabrialDestruir> For the morals to be the same throughout the country.....
[10:11] <GabrialDestruir> Morals must exist for them in the first place.
[10:11] <Hourd> hurr
[10:12] <Xark_> Ben64: I wish there was an app similar to the "WiFi" scanning apps that would let you see WTF is going on with cell phone signals the same way (to detect jammers, blockers or maybe fishy "decoy" cell towers or whatever). :)
[10:12] <linagee> Xark_: there's a USRP for that
[10:12] <Hourd> Xark_: get to work :P
[10:12] <Xark_> Hourd: Hehe. :)
[10:13] <linagee> the only thing the Pi is missing - SDR. :)
[10:14] <Xark_> linagee: Yes, I was just typing something along those lines. :) I suspect you woud need monster CPU power too...
[10:14] <linagee> Xark_: not as big as you might think
[10:15] <Ben64> Xark_: tricorder lets you see cell signal
[10:15] <linagee> Ben64: too bad tricorders are fake and USRP is not
[10:15] <Ben64> tricorder isn't fake
[10:15] <Xark_> Ben64: Hmm, I haven't noticed that (I still have the source I downloaded locally...).
[10:15] <Ben64> just not on the market anymore
[10:16] <Ben64> OpenSignal shows more cell tower info i think
[10:16] <Xark_> linagee: USRP is an Android app? I haven't heard of it...
[10:16] <linagee> Xark_: its a hardware device. its an SDR.
[10:16] <petschge> nope. it's hardware
[10:17] <petschge> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USRP
[10:17] * linagee shows Xark_ a pandora box
[10:17] <Xark_> linagee: Neat. I just googled it...
[10:17] <[deXter]> Tricorder is back on the market btw and its not fake :P And for cell towers, you can use Wigle, provides handy info about the towers, location etc
[10:17] <Ben64> its back?
[10:17] <Ben64> did they have to change interface
[10:17] <[deXter]> no theres a fake one too
[10:17] <[deXter]> Thats by someone else
[10:18] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:18] * PiBot sets mode +v MystX
[10:18] <Xark_> linagee: Pandora as in OpenPandora? Are those available again?
[10:18] <linagee> Xark_: pandora as in the actual thing
[10:18] <linagee> Xark_: see: pandora's box
[10:18] <linagee> (story)
[10:19] * Gadgetoid_ is now known as Gadgetoid_mbp
[10:19] <[deXter]> lol
[10:19] <Xark_> linagee: Hmm...ok. Thanks.
[10:19] <linagee> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box
[10:19] <linagee> that would have been a cooler name for the USRP. too bad its already taken by streaming audio
[10:20] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[10:20] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[10:20] <Xark_> linagee: Ahh, now I follow you. :) *That* pandora's box (highly overloaded term in my brain). :)
[10:21] <Xark_> linagee: Totally. :)
[10:21] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:21] * zarac (~zarac@84-55-97-138.customers.ownit.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:21] * PiBot sets mode +v zarac
[10:21] <linagee> Xark_: from the wiki: "Today, to open Pandora's box means to create evil that cannot be undone."
[10:21] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:21] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[10:22] * Space_Man (~space_man@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:22] <Xark_> linagee: Yes, I agree it is apt.
[10:22] <Syliss> i really hope that some day they are available on amazon
[10:22] <GabrialDestruir> I opened Pandora's box when I allowed Steve Jobs to create Apple
[10:22] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[10:22] <linagee> Syliss: LOl!!!!!!
[10:22] <Xark_> linagee: (Depending on your perspective). :)
[10:22] <linagee> Syliss: are you kidding? I can hardly believe the company exists in the US at all. hah
[10:23] <Syliss> y?
[10:23] <linagee> Syliss: the only reason they exist is that a large amount of attention has not really been drawn to them.
[10:23] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Xark_: haven't you heard of the OpenPandora rebirth?
[10:24] <Syliss> which company?
[10:24] <linagee> Syliss: when you were saying about amazon, did you mean Pi or something else?
[10:24] <Xark_> Gadgetoid_mbp: Hmm, don't think so. However I did hear they would "soon" be available (but they have back orders to fill).
[10:24] <GabrialDestruir> Which company indeed?
[10:24] <[deXter]> linagee, This USRP thing looks really neat. Cheers for the mention :)
[10:25] <Syliss> linagee: pi, i would rather order it from amazon then those 2 other shit sites
[10:25] <linagee> Syliss: ah ok. n/m then. :)
[10:25] <Xark_> linagee: Yes, thanks for the link. I want one. :)
[10:25] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Xark_: they moved board population to a company in Germany and have now started clearing back orders, they might reach general availability again if they're lucky
[10:26] <Syliss> linagee: what did u think i was talking about?
[10:26] <linagee> [deXter]: it was originally an open design project. hah!
[10:26] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sure Amazon will eventually get Pi
[10:26] <linagee> Syliss: nothing
[10:26] <Syliss> kk
[10:26] <GabrialDestruir> after it gets out of obscene backorder
[10:26] <Xark_> Gadgetoid_mbp: OK, I did read that. I may well get one (especially if it is available before the RPi). :)
[10:26] <GabrialDestruir> I heard yesterday it was up to august now
[10:26] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[10:26] <PReDiToR> August is a long way off.
[10:26] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[10:26] <linagee> [deXter]: be careful with it if you get one. don't do something stupid.
[10:26] <GabrialDestruir> and we're only two weeks in
[10:26] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[10:26] <Syliss> wow
[10:27] <PReDiToR> I'd imagine that at least one of the companies will do a massive run to clear demand.
[10:27] <[deXter]> linagee, Haha... my imagination is already running wild, lol
[10:27] <Syliss> id rather just get an apple tv
[10:27] <GabrialDestruir> If the numbers keep going like this we'll be into next year with just backorders
[10:27] <Syliss> or a used android phone with hdmi out
[10:27] <[deXter]> I might just as well get it now, given that it'll be ages before my Pi arrives
[10:27] <GabrialDestruir> Night all
[10:27] <GabrialDestruir> I have to be up in 5 hours yay!
[10:28] <linagee> [deXter]: youtube has many vids on the subject as well
[10:28] <Xark_> GabrialDestruir: Take it easy!
[10:28] <[deXter]> GabrialDestruir, 'night
[10:28] * Bullet500 (hahaha@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] * Bullet500 (hahaha@ has left #raspberrypi
[10:29] <linagee> [deXter]: perfect apocolypse device though. ;)
[10:30] <linagee> [deXter]: not to cause one (hopefully not anyway), but to live in a post-apocolyptic future. such a device might be very handy
[10:30] <[deXter]> yeah
[10:31] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:31] * PiBot sets mode +v canton7
[10:34] * happy_soil (~Mic@78-86-131-1.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:34] * PiBot sets mode +v happy_soil
[10:34] * kalem (~kalem@host185-195-static.104-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:34] * kalem (~kalem@host185-195-static.104-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Changing host)
[10:34] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:34] * PiBot sets mode +v kalem
[10:34] * PiBot sets mode +v kalem
[10:34] <Xark_> I'm going to sleep too. I learned several cool things in this channel tonight (none very RPi related, but it is all good). :) Goodnight all.
[10:34] <linagee> gnite
[10:35] <Syliss> well that is what irc is good for
[10:38] <Hourd> with irc you rarely get what you expected
[10:42] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@ Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[10:45] * Syliss (~Syliss@ Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[10:50] <Davespice> anyone had a dispatch notification for their device yet? /sarcasm ;)
[10:51] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:51] * PiBot sets mode +v ShiftPlusOne
[10:51] * uen (~uen@p5DCB2329.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:52] * mmattice (mmattice@unaffiliated/mmattice) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:52] * mmattice (mmattice@unaffiliated/mmattice) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:52] * PiBot sets mode +v mmattice
[10:53] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:54] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-12.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:54] * PiBot sets mode +v MikeJ1971
[10:55] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:55] * PiBot sets mode +v katnegermis
[10:59] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:01] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:01] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[11:01] * EiN_ (~einstein@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:03] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-58-167-49-74.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:03] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[11:05] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:05] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[11:11] * Kostic (~Kostic@net72-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Kostic
[11:15] * benwilliam (~rde@pd95cf2e6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:15] * PiBot sets mode +v benwilliam
[11:16] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[11:16] * der-flo (~flo@gate.der-flo.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:16] * PiBot sets mode +v der-flo
[11:17] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:17] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[11:18] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:18] * PiBot sets mode +v andatche
[11:21] <Henchman21> RABBLE
[11:21] * Kostic (~Kostic@net72-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:24] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:24] * PiBot sets mode +v DDave
[11:25] * Bart (~dodi@d54C40E15.access.telenet.be) has left #raspberrypi
[11:26] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-2-45-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:26] * PiBot sets mode +v koaschten
[11:27] <benwilliam> hi@all
[11:27] <Hourd> hi ben
[11:27] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-35-11.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:27] * PiBot sets mode +v des2
[11:27] <Ben64> hi
[11:28] <des2> Hi
[11:28] <Gadgetoid_mbp> ello!
[11:28] <Gadgetoid_mbp> I wish Delivery Status would count down in minutes
[11:33] <Davespice> Gadgetoid_mbp: lol :)
[11:33] * victhor (~victhor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[11:33] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Refreshing constantly to see the same 4 days isn't very productive
[11:38] * rob_ (~rob@dust.cx) has left #raspberrypi
[11:41] * jluisn (~quassel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:41] * PiBot sets mode +v jluisn
[11:41] <des2> Be even nicer if the numbers were real
[11:44] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:44] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[11:45] * uen (~uen@p5DCB2329.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:45] * PiBot sets mode +v uen
[11:47] * Tachyon (~tachyon@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust905.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:47] * PiBot sets mode +v Tachyon
[11:51] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[11:53] * heymaster (~heymaster@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:53] * PiBot sets mode +v heymaster
[11:53] <Davespice> oh you get a number of days to go? mine alaways says 'back order' - but I haven't checked in a while, the original email they sent me says week commencing 12th of March - today :)
[11:54] <_av500_> r-pi is a scan, it costs more than a cellphone: http://www.bgr.com/2012/03/09/sprint-announces-the-zte-fury-available-march-11th-for-19-99/
[11:54] <Davespice> a scan hmm? :)
[11:56] <RaTTuS|BIG> I got a phone for ??9.99 last year so that make that ^ a scam
[11:56] <Ben64> phones cost ~$500
[11:58] * MikeJ1971_ (~MikeJ1971@ilrt-it005663.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:58] * PiBot sets mode +v MikeJ1971_
[12:00] <Henchman21> http://chunk.us.to/raspberrypi.log.tgz
[12:00] <RaTTuS|BIG> ^ why do I want to
[12:00] <Henchman21> thats right i've been secretly recording this conversation
[12:00] <Henchman21> 8D
[12:01] <drazyl> _av500_ after a $50 rebate and with a two year contract
[12:01] <_av500_> details ...
[12:01] <_av500_> :)
[12:02] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-12.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:02] <Henchman21> since jan 28 2012
[12:04] * Tachyon is now known as Tachyon`
[12:04] <Aquilus_> Two year contracts aren't even legal here.
[12:05] <Henchman21> wookie life dept for a phone?
[12:05] <Henchman21> debt*
[12:06] <Ben64> -rw-r--r-- 1 ben64 9.7M 2012-03-12 04:04 .xchat2/xchatlogs/Freenode-#raspberrypi.log
[12:06] <Henchman21> my log says vaporware was said 100 times
[12:07] <Ben64> 89 times
[12:07] <Henchman21> raspberry 19395
[12:07] <Henchman21> almost 20k times
[12:07] <stuk_gen> xchat2...more bug :P use quassel
[12:07] <drazyl> Aquilus_ does that mean no handset subsidies, or do they work around it another way?
[12:08] <Ben64> ?? has been said 37 times
[12:08] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[12:08] <Henchman21> grepping irc logs is so much fun
[12:08] <Ben64> grep has been said 9 times
[12:09] <Henchman21> thats sad
[12:09] <Ben64> 3 times were you
[12:09] <alk_> lol
[12:09] <Hourd> lol all of the grepping :P
[12:09] <Ben64> 10 now
[12:09] <Henchman21> need to save the few hours around "launch" and pastebin that
[12:09] <alk_> grep grep grep grep grep grep grep grep grep
[12:10] <Ben64> 11
[12:10] <Ben64> i'm only counting lines
[12:10] <alk_> :[
[12:10] <Aquilus_> drazyl: It's max 1 year.
[12:11] <Anppa> is it out yet?
[12:11] <Ben64> thats been said 299 times
[12:12] <Anppa> one more... any volunteers?
[12:12] <Ben64> its not out yet
[12:12] <Henchman21> 'out yet' 344 times
[12:12] <Henchman21> 345
[12:13] <Ben64> Feb 28 2012 22:35:49 <blackcatz> why raspberry poo is not available on Amazon
[12:13] <Ben64> only time someone called it raspberry poo
[12:13] <alk_> xD
[12:13] <Ben64> except i just tripled the amount of lines
[12:13] <RaTTuS|BIG> grep RPi poo
[12:14] <Ben64> Mar 12 2012 04:13:09 <RaTTuS|BIG> grep RPi poo
[12:14] <Ben64> :|
[12:14] <Tachyon`> it's out -.o
[12:14] <Tachyon`> sold out!
[12:14] <RaTTuS|BIG> is it out yet?
[12:14] <Henchman21> c word was used 3 times
[12:14] <RaTTuS|BIG> code?
[12:14] <Tachyon`> er? I can only think of one, lol
[12:14] <Ben64> code was used 987 times
[12:14] <Tachyon`> unless you mean cobol
[12:14] <Tachyon`> in which case I can think of two
[12:15] <Ben64> cobol 4 times
[12:15] <Henchman21> Robbong,Shambler[Bishop,UukGoblin are the offenders
[12:15] <Henchman21> that "bad" c word
[12:16] <Ben64> "a" was used 16315 times
[12:16] <Henchman21> thats *a* lot
[12:16] <Henchman21> using -i ?
[12:16] <Ben64> hmm, i didn't account for *a*, just a with spaces around it
[12:17] <Henchman21> not that many people capitalize A often especially in irc UNLESS EVERYTHING IS
[12:17] <alk_> Ben are you working atm? :)
[12:17] <Ben64> what do you mean working
[12:17] <alk_> at work
[12:17] <Ben64> nope
[12:18] <Ben64> just watched a movie, about to go to sleep
[12:18] <alk_> I was wondering what would cause you to be so bored ;)
[12:18] <Ben64> its 4:17am and i don't want to go to work tomorrow
[12:18] <Ben64> :)
[12:18] <alk_> hah
[12:18] <alk_> ok work-related
[12:18] <Ben64> my work has crappy wifi
[12:19] <Ben64> and verizon blocks irc
[12:19] <alk_> port tunnel
[12:19] <Henchman21> i knew verizon sucked but thats hardcore suckage
[12:19] <Ben64> but it'd have to be a static port
[12:19] * kalem (~kalem@host185-195-static.104-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:19] * kalem (~kalem@host185-195-static.104-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Changing host)
[12:19] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:19] * PiBot sets mode +v kalem
[12:19] * PiBot sets mode +v kalem
[12:19] <Ben64> err
[12:19] <Ben64> tunnel
[12:20] <Ben64> there aren't any apps i've seen that can use a proxy on android
[12:20] <[deXter]> O.o
[12:20] <[deXter]> Ben64, ASProxy
[12:20] <PReDiToR> connectbot sets one up, doesn't it?
[12:20] <[deXter]> Or for a free solution, TransProxy
[12:20] <Henchman21> set up a vpn server at home
[12:21] <Ben64> that doesn't look like android [deXter]
[12:21] * dnai23 (~daniel@HSI-KBW-109-193-130-042.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:21] * PiBot sets mode +v dnai23
[12:21] <[deXter]> Ben64, It is; I used to use it at uni all the time :)
[12:21] <Henchman21> think they have a tor suite for android
[12:21] <[deXter]> Yep
[12:21] <Ben64> "To install ASProxy on you website or server you will need these:"
[12:22] <Ben64> android is neither
[12:22] <[deXter]> um, search it in the market
[12:22] <[deXter]> don't google it. :P
[12:22] <Ben64> you mean google play :P
[12:22] <[deXter]> No, I mean market.
[12:22] <Ben64> market doesn't exist anymore
[12:22] <[deXter]> to hell with Play.
[12:22] <[deXter]> What a stupid dumb name
[12:22] <Magoggles> GOOGLE PLAY
[12:22] <alk_> hehe
[12:22] <Ben64> error launching blah blah
[12:22] <alk_> that is pretty dumb
[12:22] <Henchman21> im boycotting google
[12:22] <Ben64> market sounds cooler
[12:22] <Ben64> old logo looked better
[12:22] <Ben64> now it looks like windows media player
[12:23] <Ben64> *bleh*
[12:23] <[deXter]> LOL
[12:23] <[deXter]> true
[12:23] <Henchman21> google gapps isnt on my phone
[12:23] <Magoggles> if you call it market you're a neo-luddite :P
[12:23] <Ben64> but maps!
[12:23] <alk_> "Play Store"
[12:23] <Ben64> and navigation
[12:23] <alk_> it's like App Store, but more fun!
[12:23] <Ben64> and gmail!!!
[12:24] <Henchman21> "we read your email, so you dont have to"
[12:24] <Henchman21> -gmail
[12:24] <Magoggles> lol
[12:25] <Henchman21> it shouldnt be funny cause its true
[12:25] <Magoggles> it's still funny
[12:26] <Magoggles> if you had anything super important you wouldnt be using gmail anyway
[12:26] * SpEcTo (~SpEcTo@ Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[12:28] <Ben64> but i like gmail
[12:29] <Magoggles> well okay
[12:29] <Magoggles> if you had anything super important*. *and were paranoid about Google
[12:29] <Snowl> windows 8
[12:29] <Ben64> good one
[12:30] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Gmail backup is your friend :)
[12:46] * Lewmar (~Lewmar@gateway/tor-sasl/lewmar) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:46] * PiBot sets mode +v Lewmar
[12:49] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:49] * PiBot sets mode +v Martix
[12:52] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:52] * UukGoblin ? an offender?
[12:53] <Henchman21> said the C word
[12:53] <Henchman21> but i guess brits say it all the time
[12:54] <Henchman21> rhymes with punt and is funnier when ended with punt
[12:55] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:55] * PiBot sets mode +v vipkilla
[12:56] <Hourd> we dont say it all the time?
[12:57] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Forca
[12:58] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has left #raspberrypi
[12:59] <Laurenceb> cunt
[12:59] <tntexplosivesltd> o.O
[12:59] * Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[13:02] <Henchman21> taco
[13:03] * Snowl (~Snowl@119-18-16-45.cust.aussiebb.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:05] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:07] * warddr (~warddr@2a01:4f8:140:72a1::151) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] * warddr (~warddr@2a01:4f8:140:72a1::151) Quit (Changing host)
[13:07] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[13:07] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[13:10] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[13:10] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[13:11] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-ljzkximyoksamctu) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:11] * PiBot sets mode +v rodrigo_golive
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[13:12] * PiBot sets mode +v ShiftPlusOne
[13:12] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:12] * PiBot sets mode +v DDave
[13:17] <des2> android market was a good name
[13:17] <des2> google play is a stupid name
[13:17] <PReDiToR> google.play.com
[13:18] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:18] * PiBot sets mode +v ShiftPlusOne2
[13:18] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002129218225.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:18] * PiBot sets mode +v lars_t_h
[13:18] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:19] <drazyl> I think it should be "google not serious enough for business use"
[13:21] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[13:24] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:24] * PiBot sets mode +v wiiguy
[13:25] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:25] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[13:27] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:27] * PiBot sets mode +v Caver
[13:27] * der-flo (~flo@gate.der-flo.net) has left #raspberrypi
[13:29] * sven1994 (~svens@p4FC2FAFC.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:29] * PiBot sets mode +v sven1994
[13:33] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Quit: .)
[13:36] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[13:37] <wcchandler> i'm still quoted for a mar 13th ship date... the anxiety is killing me :( I wish they'd just update it already to June or whatever
[13:38] <Davespice> wcchandler: my ship date is today, haven't had a dispatch notification <shrug>
[13:39] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[13:39] <wcchandler> Davespice: are you to the east of the atlantic?
[13:39] <Davespice> UK, yes
[13:40] <Hexxeh> My ship date is today too
[13:40] <Hexxeh> Not heard anything yet though
[13:41] <Davespice> mine actually says W/C on the date, so I guess that is "week commencing"
[13:41] <Davespice> so anytime this week?
[13:41] <wcchandler> did you get it through farnell or rs?
[13:41] <Davespice> Farnell Export site, but it seems they passed it to the UK site for fulfillment
[13:42] <Davespice> not sure how much of a delay the RJ45 socket mistake will introduce, but they'll arrive in the end :)
[13:43] <PReDiToR> If only people could be patient.
[13:43] <Davespice> PReDiToR: indeed, so many moaners and nay sayers on the forums right now
[13:44] <wcchandler> I'm not patient at all, but when my boss keeps asking it's just butter on top of things... considering I was hoping to use this as an alternative to a $100,000 project :/
[13:45] <wcchandler> That has to be finalized by July so... very little time for internal testing
[13:45] <jzu> there are other alternatives
[13:46] <wcchandler> me please don't say beaglebone/board or pandaboard :P
[13:47] <Henchman21> gumstix
[13:47] <Henchman21> :P
[13:47] <jzu> what is really superior on a R-Pi, compared to these ?
[13:47] <wcchandler> price
[13:47] <PReDiToR> pull the antennae off a WRT54G
[13:48] <wcchandler> +hdmi
[13:48] <jzu> wcchandler: price, when you want an alternative to a $100,000 project?
[13:48] <wcchandler> jzu: that difference can pay for me to work here for another year, so yeah...
[13:49] <philh> the price difference between an existing arm board and the pi? you're cheap
[13:50] <PReDiToR> Someone is going to say "yo momma" soon, i can feel it.
[13:50] <wcchandler> no, $100k for current proposals and $10-30k (potential) for Pi
[13:50] <drazyl> wcchandler - the chance of getting hold of a board was always pretty minimal tho
[13:50] * dnai23 (~daniel@HSI-KBW-109-193-130-042.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: "")
[13:51] <wcchandler> drazyl: I was hoping for at most 3 months turn around... if I knew it would take this long initially I would have grabbed one on ebay without hesitation
[13:51] <wcchandler> just kicking myself in the bum :)
[13:52] <drazyl> fair enough, although 3 months seems optimistic to me before RS and Farnell were involved
[13:52] <philh> wcchandler, so the price difference from a project where you use a widely available arm dev board that isn't a pi is basically negligible, i think that's what jzu was trying to say, and when you consider man hours spent waiting around for the pi to become available the more expensive board is obviously cheaper
[13:52] <Henchman21> rebranding a pi for some other product?
[13:53] <jzu> wcchandler: I'm beginning to understand - you want a few dozens of them
[13:53] <drazyl> wchandler I'm assuming you are looking at buying thousands of pi's?
[13:53] <philh> thousands, oh, in that case...
[13:53] <wcchandler> 30 * 3, or roughly 100. But I just needed one for testing and validation for the contract
[13:53] <drazyl> ahhh, not that many then
[13:54] <wcchandler> it's going to a university to retrofit a student computer lab
[13:54] <drazyl> have you spoken to the foundation about plans?
[13:54] <Henchman21> whats to stop the university teachers from going to the source?
[13:54] <wcchandler> didn't think they'd care or have anything to offer me?
[13:55] * KrimZon_2_ (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:55] * PiBot sets mode +v KrimZon_2_
[13:55] * KrimZon_2 (~krimzon2@super.duper.reetleet.org) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[13:55] <drazyl> they want to use them for education, I would have spoken direct to them to see if I could get an early board/reservation
[13:55] <wcchandler> they're more than welcome but these would roll in an LTSP fashion
[13:56] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:56] * PiBot sets mode +v DDave
[13:57] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[13:58] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:58] * PiBot sets mode +v canton7
[13:58] <philh> that does indeed sound like exactly the kind of thing they'd be excited to hear about, if nothing else
[13:59] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:00] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:00] * PiBot sets mode +v wiiguy
[14:01] <wcchandler> philh: have you seen the forums? there's a bunch of posts about ltsp projects. I doubt I'm a special case, so why should I act like I am?
[14:02] <philh> wcchandler, honestly, i've avoided the forums, i can't imagine they're a particularly fun place to be
[14:04] * darnit (5c628e40@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] * PiBot sets mode +v darnit
[14:04] * darnit is now known as blackberrypi
[14:05] * Milos is now known as zZzZzZlos
[14:05] <Henchman21> not a fan of the forum layout either
[14:05] <blackberrypi> Hello
[14:05] <wcchandler> philh: ahh. It's not. I venture there from time to time to get speculated updates but yeah... A lot of complainers and after you read it for 10 minutes, you start seeing the same thing over and over. LTSP, car-puter, clusters, media centers, and home automation, those topics are constantly repeated
[14:05] <blackberrypi> If my expected shipping date is 3rd April, am I going to recieve my RPi from the first batch, or the second one?
[14:06] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5695.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:06] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[14:06] <drazyl> technically there is not second batch
[14:06] <Henchman21> constant rollout
[14:07] <philh> i'm afraid i'm staying thoroughly unexcited about raspis until i can actually buy one that's not still waiting to be manufactured, i don't do early adopter hysteria, i'm happy to leave that kind of thing to apple's customers
[14:07] <drazyl> but you probably want to ask whoever you have purchased from not random people on IRC
[14:07] <drazyl> philh - I'd be overjoyed to have one asap, but the reality is a long wait
[14:07] <wcchandler> yeah, because I heard raspberry pis after march 30th come with throium to remove the need for power
[14:08] <philh> heh
[14:08] <drazyl> afternoon ReggieUK
[14:08] * joohoo340 (93b12971@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[14:08] * PiBot sets mode +v joohoo340
[14:09] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[14:09] * flea86|away (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: Station breakdown)
[14:11] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[14:13] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[14:13] <JaLu> i ordered mine on the 29th but not heard anything yet. as much as i want one i can wait :)
[14:15] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:15] <philh> :)
[14:17] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:17] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[14:18] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Curious! philh would that be Phil H. ?
[14:19] <philh> it could well be
[14:19] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Hurrah! I have finally been illegally cloned... productivity will be up almost 5%!
[14:20] <philh> oh, nice
[14:20] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Two men can't dig a hole in half the time, or something to that effect
[14:21] <wcchandler> they can it it's through the earth and each start on opposite sides ;)
[14:22] <Gadgetoid_mbp> wcchandler: Right... you get started your end, and I'll meet you just inside the molten core!
[14:22] <wcchandler> mmm toasty
[14:22] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Bring marshmallows
[14:22] <alk_> psyche
[14:22] * datagutt (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:22] * PiBot sets mode +v datagutt
[14:22] * datagutt (~datagutt@140.80-202-130.nextgentel.com) Quit (Changing host)
[14:22] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:22] * PiBot sets mode +v datagutt
[14:23] <Gadgetoid_mbp> wcchandler: Interesting how you expand the metaphor, though, because that would only work if they were precisely targeted and actually met in the middle
[14:23] <Gadgetoid_mbp> Just like programming, whee!
[14:23] * PReDiToR (~PReDiToR@unaffiliated/preditor) has left #raspberrypi
[14:23] <wcchandler> :
[14:23] <wcchandler> :)
[14:24] <wcchandler> not at all absurd if you actually think two men can dig the same hole at twice the speed, no?
[14:25] <Gadgetoid_mbp> It'd require careful planning, which would take time, thus eating into any speed benefit
[14:25] <Gadgetoid_mbp> It's completely impossible, I say, completely!
[14:25] <alk_> pff
[14:25] <alk_> dual-man digging is old
[14:25] <alk_> you need to scale up to 1024 men at least nowadays
[14:25] <wcchandler> it's like saying dual cores is faster in a single threaded app
[14:26] <Gadgetoid_mbp> All digging is done through multiple layers of framework, thus rendering the actual human interaction down to Hole = new Hole(100,100,100); Shovel.Dig(Hole) ?
[14:26] <wcchandler> 1024 men digging one hole... Hmmm... I think i've seen that title before in an adults only section
[14:26] <alk_> :D
[14:26] <_av500_> HoleFactoryPattern
[14:27] <Gadgetoid_mbp> wcchandler: I wouldn't even dare Googling that, at least not until the evening, hyuk hyuk!
[14:29] * Lukewh (~Adium@188-223-82-31.zone14.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Lukewh
[14:31] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-ifhahxgmkeagnuvq) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:31] * PiBot sets mode +v troth
[14:31] * Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:31] * Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) has left #raspberrypi
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[14:35] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[14:36] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[14:40] * Lukewh1 (~Adium@188-223-82-31.zone14.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] * PiBot sets mode +v Lukewh1
[14:40] <bnmorgan> wtf. have y'all been in my migraine medicine or something?
[14:42] * Lukewh (~Adium@188-223-82-31.zone14.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[14:42] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[14:43] <PReDiToR> Yeah, that Eletriptan gives you such a rush.
[14:43] <drazyl> does it give you randomly capitalised letters? :)
[14:43] <bnmorgan> how the hell you know i take relpax :D
[14:44] * Maccer (~Maccer@ Quit (Excess Flood)
[14:45] * jthunder (~jthunder@ Quit (Quit: jthunder)
[14:49] <PReDiToR> Wife takes it. Imipramine too. Hellish affliction.
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[14:50] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:51] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[14:52] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[14:53] * PReDiToR (~mpreditor@unaffiliated/preditor) has left #raspberrypi
[14:54] * blackberrypi (5c628e40@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[14:55] * PReDiToR (~preditor@cpc3-york1-0-0-cust750.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:55] * PiBot sets mode +v PReDiToR
[14:55] * PReDiToR (~preditor@cpc3-york1-0-0-cust750.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:56] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[14:59] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[14:59] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[14:59] * PiBot sets mode +v ukscone
[15:00] <kalem> someone have a working kernel for raspberry debian squeeze with qemu ?
[15:00] <kalem> I found a bzimage, but it can't load modules...
[15:01] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[15:03] * LWK_mac (~LWK@host31-52-24-37.range31-52.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:03] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[15:03] * LWK_mac (~LWK@host31-52-24-37.range31-52.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Changing host)
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[15:03] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[15:04] * echo9 (~echo9@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] * PiBot sets mode +v echo9
[15:04] <echo9> Hey fellas
[15:04] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[15:05] <echo9> Nobody here. .?
[15:05] <echo9> :O
[15:05] <drazyl> nope, we're all playing with pi's
[15:06] <echo9> Ohh drats..now where was I then?
[15:06] <echo9> :D
[15:07] <echo9> Or this must be 2042
[15:07] <echo9> If yall are really playing with Rpi
[15:07] <stuk_gen> you haven't got pi?
[15:08] <stuk_gen> what you aspect?
[15:08] <stuk_gen> we have just from about 3 days
[15:08] * ole9 (~ole@54b.pl) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[15:08] <echo9> No shit :|
[15:08] <stuk_gen> i'm sorry :)
[15:09] <stuk_gen> but you can buy iPi :)
[15:09] <echo9> C'mon u serious? (erm..was feelin sleepy but not anymore)
[15:09] <stuk_gen> no i'm sleeping :)
[15:10] <stuk_gen> please don't wake up
[15:10] <stuk_gen> me
[15:10] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Quit: .)
[15:10] * kaltoft (~Bo@port59.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:10] * PiBot sets mode +v kaltoft
[15:10] <drazyl> zzzzzzzzz
[15:10] <echo9> I pi? Lol now d heck is tht? A chinese locally manufactured rpi
[15:11] <drazyl> designed in california
[15:11] <piofcube> Ipi.. Upi.. we all pi ;-)
[15:11] <stuk_gen> echo9: The new Ipi :)
[15:12] <stuk_gen> the pi with a great iron case and a full 50" hd led display
[15:12] <echo9> I pi? Hey..hey wait a sec. You guys are hitting me righ..? o_0
[15:13] * Lukewh1 (~Adium@188-223-82-31.zone14.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[15:13] <stuk_gen> no its only a little fun for waiting the release...
[15:13] <stuk_gen> iPi the pi vision from Apple
[15:13] * Lukewh (~Adium@188-223-82-31.zone14.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:13] * PiBot sets mode +v Lukewh
[15:13] <echo9> @stuk OMFG! Now. . . .that would be aawwsome! :D
[15:13] <Hourd> irc is twitter now?
[15:14] <echo9> A 50" display yea sure
[15:14] <piofcube> yeah... this is the new iTwitter
[15:14] <echo9> Looks like uncle sam's got our back
[15:15] <stuk_gen> echo9: hehe
[15:15] <echo9> Hey luke
[15:16] <drazyl> ican haz ipi?
[15:16] <echo9> AFAIK first lot of pi's got mess'd up (thx to farnell)
[15:16] <drazyl> that's what they keep telling you, actually they shipped them all to me
[15:17] <drazyl> I am making a card house out of them
[15:17] <echo9> @drazpl yas u can haz d pie
[15:17] <echo9> :D
[15:17] * MrWatson (~MrW@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:17] * PiBot sets mode +v MrWatson
[15:17] * MrWatson (~MrW@ Quit (Client Quit)
[15:18] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f660c8c-74736162.cust.telenor.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:18] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[15:18] * Calyp (~Calyp@c-4f660c8c-74736162.cust.telenor.se) Quit (Changing host)
[15:18] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:18] * PiBot sets mode +v Calyp
[15:18] <echo9> Drazyl: sure sure a card house now would ya plz lemme pluck one of the cards outta your card pyramid
[15:19] <echo9> :p
[15:19] * mkopack (~mkopack@174-150-213-147.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:19] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[15:19] <drazyl> no! it will fall over and I will have to start again
[15:19] <echo9> Hey mko
[15:21] <echo9> You could always make use of the rj45 sockets to hook 'em up :p
[15:21] <echo9> Now thats mess'd up
[15:21] <mkopack> Let's hope we start to get some Pi served up this week!
[15:22] <Gadgetoid_mbp> By the time I get a Pi, someone will have got Windows running on it. Twice.
[15:23] <echo9> This week? Are you kiddin me?. .uh oh i think you're not aware of the manufacturer's messed it up
[15:23] <Gadgetoid_mbp> ( and not in qemu, that would be cheating )
[15:24] <RITRedbeard> the funny thing about the RJ45 sockets is that I was intending to desolder it and put it in another place anyway
[15:24] <echo9> @gadget ahem ahem well we could def try a stripped down version of win pe / 7 /8
[15:25] <echo9> @gadget yes was just going to cheat :p
[15:25] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[15:26] <echo9> @beard unsolder it? Lol where will you be putting it anyways
[15:26] <mkopack> echo9 yes, I AM aware of it??? But they got shipped back early last week??? no reason they couldn't finish fixing them by now (or by wed) and get them airlifted back to the UK for customer shipment by end of this week...
[15:27] * MuNk (~NOP@2001:470:1f09:1ec1:210:75ff:fe1a:bdb0) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:27] * PiBot sets mode +v MuNk
[15:27] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:27] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[15:27] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Client Quit)
[15:27] <echo9> Considering the size of the board(except if u opt for designing & attaching your own 2nd board)
[15:28] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-58-167-49-74.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[15:29] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:29] * PiBot sets mode +v hamitron
[15:29] <echo9> @mko bro u know wha? I would really appreciate that but lets see ssup with farnell & rs fellas
[15:30] <Tobias> Hmm, it seems the forums are leaking...
[15:31] <echo9> Still, idk maybe they would (lets just keep our fingers crossed)
[15:31] <des2> Leaking?
[15:31] <echo9> @tobias :D if you have any piece of info. Then plz share here
[15:32] <echo9> @des2 idk what hes talking about
[15:34] <echo9> Erm..allrigh fellas, time to go
[15:34] <echo9> Later
[15:34] * echo9 (~echo9@ Quit (Quit: used jmIrc)
[15:34] <Tobias> There we go; back to normal
[15:35] <Tobias> des2: was referring to the plummet in quality of conversation here
[15:36] * Tachyon` blinks
[15:36] <Tachyon`> welcome to IRC
[15:36] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:36] * PiBot sets mode +v DDave
[15:37] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[15:38] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: oldtopman has left the house)
[15:42] <conra> eeee
[15:42] <conra> wtf
[15:42] <conra> http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-43546/l/raspberry-pi-pricing-update
[15:42] <conra> 33GBP = 50USD
[15:42] <conra> 50USD != 35USD
[15:42] <GabrialDestruir> WTF
[15:43] <des2> can't pull up the page
[15:43] <conra> i have on rss
[15:43] <GabrialDestruir> That's because we probably all just DoS'd it
[15:44] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:44] * PiBot sets mode +v atts
[15:44] <drazyl> again
[15:45] <GabrialDestruir> Google hasn't properly cached it yet.... so can't even access it that way.
[15:45] <philh> when did the colour of the logo change and the TM appear, btw
[15:45] <Tobias> we really need to stop doing that :<
[15:45] <AidyFS> all 382 of us, huh?
[15:45] <RaTTuS|BIG> this weekend siometime
[15:45] <GabrialDestruir> Well... farnell has shown they really can't handle any sort of load :p
[15:46] <jamesd256> I'm hammering the page now from a 100 machine test array to see what's wrong
[15:46] <jamesd256> only 10 threads a machine though
[15:46] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[15:46] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:46] * PiBot sets mode +v atts
[15:46] <GabrialDestruir> But I'm pretty sure jumping the price to nearly double is somehow against the licensing agreement, isn't it? >.>
[15:46] <GabrialDestruir> Or shouldn't it be?
[15:46] <drazyl> that's the problem you need MOAR THREDZ
[15:47] <jamesd256> An error occurred while processing your request.
[15:47] <jamesd256> Reference #97.8f2645f.1331563551.1e9b040
[15:47] <des2> unless they lied about the agreement
[15:47] <GabrialDestruir> Here too
[15:47] <RITRedbeard> Just come back in six months then you'll have your RPi
[15:48] <GabrialDestruir> Actually.... in six months
[15:48] <GabrialDestruir> we'll be back ordered into 2016
[15:48] <jamesd256> It's an eastaer egg. #97.8f2645f.1331563551.1e9b040: just read that code to the sales guy and you'll get a Pi in the post half price
[15:48] <traeak> what's this? 50usd ?
[15:48] <RITRedbeard> Hey look, the Beaglebone is in stock...
[15:48] <RITRedbeard> At multiple retailers!
[15:49] <traeak> beaglebone would be fine for embedded
[15:49] <traeak> but no display on basic beaglebone
[15:49] <RITRedbeard> Not that I get paid to say that, I wish TI would hire me for co-op.
[15:50] * Calyp (~Calyp@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[15:50] <RITRedbeard> That's the allure of the Pi is the 1080@ 30fps decode
[15:50] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:50] <RITRedbeard> HDMI right there bam
[15:50] <RITRedbeard> too bad no LVDS
[15:51] * pitillo (~pitillo@145.Red-79-151-219.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[15:51] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:53] * pitillo (~pitillo@97.Red-88-16-108.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:53] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[15:53] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:54] <conra> Price: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nwex3yBpsfQ/T14MOk7gAxI/AAAAAAAAA6w/j7Yvq1nXqto/s1440/price.png
[15:54] <conra> GabrialDestruir: des2 ^
[15:56] <GabrialDestruir> the fuck
[15:56] <GabrialDestruir> Eh I suppose that makes sense...
[15:57] <traeak> not sure where that list came from
[15:57] <RaTTuS|BIG> certainly no the US
[15:57] <GabrialDestruir> $40 is 35+Shipping apparently
[15:58] <GabrialDestruir> and then on top of that they apparently want to lump local state taxes and what not.
[15:58] <drazyl> looks reasonable to me
[15:58] <RITRedbeard> should have struck a deal with Amazon
[15:58] <RITRedbeard> or Radioshack
[15:58] <RITRedbeard> or Sparkfun
[15:58] <RITRedbeard> or Adafruit
[15:58] <RITRedbeard> for retailing
[15:58] <RaTTuS|BIG> amazon cannot build them
[15:58] <RITRedbeard> Newark does?
[15:58] <AidyFS> Want to lump, and being legally obliged to lump probably aren't the same things
[15:58] <RITRedbeard> RS and Farnell do?
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[15:59] <GabrialDestruir> I don't see why they feel a need to lump the shipping in with actual price cost.
[15:59] <RaTTuS|BIG> newark == farnell IIRC?
[15:59] <drazyl> because that is the model they work on for other components I believe
[15:59] <RaTTuS|BIG> may be wrong
[15:59] <GabrialDestruir> Nope
[15:59] <RITRedbeard> If this were a guitar channel...
[15:59] * RITRedbeard shakes fist.
[15:59] * Mavy is now known as Mavy-bnc
[15:59] <GabrialDestruir> Newark == Element 14 Subsidary
[15:59] <RITRedbeard> All MIC
[15:59] <RITRedbeard> MIK
[15:59] <GabrialDestruir> Farnell == Element 14 Subsidary
[16:00] <GabrialDestruir> However if you call customer service you find that Newark != Farnell
[16:00] <GabrialDestruir> and Newark cannot help with any Farnell orders
[16:00] <GabrialDestruir> not even to so much as look up a delivery date
[16:01] <alk_> and how about RS, are they also realteD?
[16:01] <GabrialDestruir> RS is it's own clusterfuck of subsidary joy
[16:02] <RITRedbeard> conra, did you take the picture of price.png?
[16:02] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-43546/l/raspberry-pi-pricing-update <-0 is workiong now
[16:02] <RITRedbeard> If so, we have the same native resolution.
[16:03] <des2> a $40 delivered price in the us is lower than it was ($35+$8 shipping)
[16:03] <conra> RITRedbeard: but now working
[16:03] <GabrialDestruir> Except you take in account taxes....
[16:03] <RITRedbeard> ok
[16:03] <traeak> there's good and bad with rs/farnell
[16:04] <traeak> the good is they can manufacture continually
[16:04] <traeak> the bad is: they are "for profit" and probably see the rpi as being potentially far more profitable than what they may or may not have signed up for
[16:04] <GabrialDestruir> apparently I'm doing my tax calculation wrong....
[16:05] <RITRedbeard> I may be terribly mistaken, rs/farnell is not actually manufacturing anything, correct?
[16:05] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@ Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[16:05] <mkopack> Right now, that's correct
[16:06] <GabrialDestruir> 42.9 apparently
[16:06] <mkopack> They contract for manufacture currently
[16:06] <GabrialDestruir> With shipping and tax to california
[16:06] <mkopack> But I believe they do have their own lines as well. But right now, with the RPi, they're ordering from the same line as the RPF did
[16:06] <des2> the same place that made the first 10,000 is apparently making the rest still
[16:07] <RITRedbeard> Okay.
[16:07] <GabrialDestruir> I don't get why they can't be like a normal company and add shipping separate, so we know for a fact that shipping isn't only something like 2 dollars
[16:07] <GabrialDestruir> and the rest is just profit
[16:07] <RITRedbeard> That is the stupidest thing, though.
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[16:08] <RITRedbeard> I realize there is probably some zany laws the Foundation is trying to follow regarding being non-profit and based in the UK but seriously...
[16:08] <des2> http://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-pcba/dp/83T1943?Ntt=2081185
[16:08] <mkopack> At this point, I don't care??? I DO question why they have to charge me sales tax when I'm not in NJ.. Unless they happen to have a warehouse or something in GA, I shouldn't have to pay sales tax
[16:08] <RITRedbeard> I'm sure there was an easier way to meet the goal and do such sooner.
[16:08] <GabrialDestruir> Eh...
[16:08] <des2> newark is still showing $35
[16:08] <GabrialDestruir> has nothing to do with foundation... according to this FAQ it's all element 14s doing
[16:09] <GabrialDestruir> and by raising it now they can insure that all customers, even those in the first batch get hit with the same pricing
[16:09] <RITRedbeard> Say, uh, you know, where everything else is manufactured... like uh, Taiwan, China... ?
[16:09] <RITRedbeard> I'm just talking about the idea of having PCB assembled in the UK.
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[16:09] <GabrialDestruir> We want to make our pricing globally transparent in keeping with our commitment to make the Raspberry Pi Board accessible to all at a base price no higher than $35 per board. By changing our prices now, with the first delivery of reworked boards due to go out next week, we can ensure that all customers have the benefit of the new pricing structure.
[16:10] <conra> aaaaand now site gonna down, RITRedbeard :)
[16:10] <oldtopman> GabrialDestruir: Price went up?
[16:10] <RITRedbeard> Or even strictly retailing from UK based companies.
[16:10] <RITRedbeard> Bad decisions.
[16:10] <GabrialDestruir> They're including shipping in the new prices apparently
[16:11] <GabrialDestruir> plus local taxes
[16:11] <traeak> ahh
[16:11] <traeak> local taxes as in the US you mean?
[16:11] <mkopack> right
[16:11] <GabrialDestruir> no local taxes as in pretty much anywhere element 14 is selling
[16:11] * RITRedbeard shrugs.
[16:12] <RITRedbeard> mkopack, north or south NJ?
[16:12] <GabrialDestruir> bbl
[16:12] <mkopack> Here in the US, typically when ordering something from online, you only pay local (State) sales taxes if the company you are buying from has a business presence in your state (otherwise you'd be paying GA sales tax to a company in NJ, who gets the money? NJ or GA?)
[16:12] <mkopack> I'm in Ga
[16:12] <RITRedbeard> oh
[16:13] <flaushy> RITRedbeard: they had a blog post about why UK didnt work out for them. (mainly because of import fees)
[16:13] <GabrialDestruir> I find it funny that they're only now apply state taxes and what not for the US
[16:13] <mkopack> So for instance, when I bought my printer from Dell, because dell has offices in GA, I had to pay sales tax. When I buy stuff from Newegg, I don't because they only have offices in NJ, TN an CA
[16:13] <RITRedbeard> flaushy, production in UK you mean?
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[16:13] <flaushy> RITRedbeard: yepe
[16:14] <RITRedbeard> Duh.
[16:14] <RITRedbeard> I could have told you that.
[16:14] <RITRedbeard> I can't think of one electronics company in the UK.
[16:14] <RITRedbeard> I can think of many in China.
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[16:14] <mkopack> RIT: Yeah, they wanted to do the board production in the UK, but there's a STUPID import duty law where they pay more for producing the boards in the UK than it costs them to have them done in China and imported as a full product
[16:15] <mkopack> Something about the parts duties being higher than the finished product boards
[16:15] <RITRedbeard> Even so, it would probably be cheaper in China since there are many companies just waiting to ramp up production.
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: Bullshit.
[16:16] <mkopack> Also the production houses in the UK wanted bg production runs, much larger than what the foundation could afford, so as a result the lead times were going to be really long - like only when the UK fabs had gaps in their production for other big contracts could they "fit in" the small runs of the foundation
[16:16] <flaushy> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/509 is the post :)
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: Import tax is 5%.
[16:16] <RITRedbeard> I mean, it is common sense. I understand the Foundation wanting to support the homeboys, but it was stupid.
[16:16] <RITRedbeard> That's why the engineers don't do marketing/production.
[16:16] <mkopack> Speed: Hey, I'm going off memory here.. it's been like 5 months since that all played out...
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[16:16] <SpeedEvil> 5% is an important amount - but not a project killer. Especially given it's not 5% of sales revenue, but 5% of BOM.
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> I know - it was largely bullshit at the time they said it.
[16:17] <RaYmAn> I doubt they have a very big margin ;)
[16:17] <stuk_gen> ole site is up
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> 3% or so may have been important, but it's not a project-killer.
[16:17] <mkopack> Well, it IS stupid if it costs more to import the parts to build something domestically than it does to import the finished product??? That's shooting yourself in the head
[16:18] <RITRedbeard> The UK has many odd laws and policies.
[16:19] <RITRedbeard> I could sit here and slag or dog all the decisions they've made, the UK, etc... I'd rather not.
[16:20] <RITRedbeard> I've run out of gas. I can no longer get angry about the paper launch and all this funny business.
[16:20] <hamitron> simple fix would be to put 10% import tax on the full products ;)
[16:21] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:21] <RITRedbeard> and solder on a DC jack
[16:21] <RITRedbeard> look! now it's a full product!
[16:22] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:22] <mkopack> hamitron: Ah, if ONLY it was that easy
[16:22] <hamitron> there are ofc fixes for some things that make problems for others
[16:22] <hamitron> :/
[16:23] <RITRedbeard> How does a pick 'n place machine work? similar to CNC machine?
[16:23] <RITRedbeard> place flux, into the oven you go?
[16:24] <mkopack> You put a 10% import duty in on products??? China gets pissed and retaliates by doing the same to your products. IF you're the UK or US who already have huge trade imbalances and is desperate to sell to the Chinese market to fix that imbalance, you can't afford to have that 10% markup on your products being sold over there??? Especially when your products are competing with, say, Brazil's, that doesn't have said markup...
[16:24] <hamitron> mkopack, yep
[16:24] <mkopack> RIT: It's sort of like a big robot that picks up the part from a tray, places it in the right spot on the board...
[16:25] <RITRedbeard> so more or less like a 3d printer or CNC machine
[16:25] <RITRedbeard> I assume the parts are in spooled trays
[16:26] <RITRedbeard> Just thinking out loud: 3d printers and stuff are semi-popular as are DIY CNC machines... how come nobody has done a PnP machine?
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[16:26] <RITRedbeard> Although I tend to visit sites like hackaday frequently.
[16:26] <mkopack> Well???. sorta??? Yes on the spooled trays??? In fact, often things like the resistors and caps and such are on long ribbons of parts??? Like the parts you need to build XYZ board are attached to the ribbon in a set sequence and the robot knows the first part is resistor 1 and puts it where resistor 1 goes, and so on..
[16:27] <des2> pick and place http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn0EKtLOVx4
[16:28] <Matt> this is something that's discussed from time to time
[16:28] <mkopack> des: yeah, there you go
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[16:28] <Matt> there are DIY PnP machines, but it's a matter of the number of spools they can handle at a time
[16:29] <Matt> and the accuracy
[16:29] <Matt> a PnP machine that can only pull from a couple of spools at a time isn't going to be too useful
[16:29] <Matt> other than to demonstrate it's possible
[16:29] <RITRedbeard> yeah... I imagine it might have to be calibrated/checked somewhat frequently
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[16:30] <piofcube> LOL... you could use the PnP machine and draw the tracks after j/k
[16:30] <mkopack> I have seen them where the "spool" has all the parts on it (like it'll have a mix of caps, resistors, etc.) in the correct placement sequence. But that's probably more for specialized dedicated product lines, not for general production lines
[16:30] <RITRedbeard> mkopack, that could work
[16:31] <RITRedbeard> I was just thinking of the Beaglebone BOM
[16:31] <RITRedbeard> there are 60? 67? unique components
[16:31] <mkopack> But you gotta figure they probably had to contract to get the spools made with the parts in the right order on the ribbon
[16:31] <RITRedbeard> so accessing 67 seperate spools... difficult
[16:32] <mkopack> RIT: Right, but that just means you do multi-stage production??? P&P machine #1 does the first 12 components, hands the board off to machine #2 which does the next 20, etc.
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[16:32] <RITRedbeard> there is probably a method to fit it all into one spool as an ordered set
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[16:32] <RITRedbeard> the problem I see is picking them up and placing them accurately with that method
[16:33] <mkopack> You'd be surprised given computer vision techniques how accurate you can get.
[16:33] <piofcube> If there's money in it, I'm sure someone will setup a site which lets you upload an itemised parts list and they'll accomodate it.
[16:33] <RITRedbeard> I was thinking you could load the spool manually by hand
[16:33] <RITRedbeard> this is just DIY here, not 100k RPi
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[16:34] <RITRedbeard> drop in resistors 1-73, IC1, IC2, C1-20
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[16:35] <RITRedbeard> I guess it is analogous to a stack or queue. Push the components in known order, then the machine pops them off and places them in the correct place with the proper gerbil file/gcode
[16:35] <mkopack> exactly
[16:36] <RITRedbeard> I like that.
[16:36] <piofcube> It would be much easier if the packages were all the same size of course.
[16:37] <RITRedbeard> might need seperate spools to discriminate on size
[16:37] <RITRedbeard> I think SMD caps and resistors conform to certain sizes, don't they?
[16:38] <alk_> where is the "official" discussion channel?
[16:38] <RITRedbeard> you just run into a chicken and egg problem because what happens if you have SMD led component that doesn't meet std size
[16:39] <piofcube> Though... if someone created a standard size holder which could have different internal sizes, the machine could hold that and push the components out of them and into position.
[16:39] <des2> nowhere alk
[16:39] <RITRedbeard> piofcube, that's what I'm thinking
[16:39] <piofcube> Stick all these same-sized holders into a tube or sim and there's your "spool"
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[16:39] <RITRedbeard> aren't SMD devices classified in sizes like SMD0866?
[16:39] <RITRedbeard> or something like that?
[16:40] <RITRedbeard> discrete SMD components
[16:40] <jamesd256> nowhere is empty! Was that some kind of prank?
[16:40] <des2> there are standard smc packages
[16:40] <RITRedbeard> hmmm
[16:40] <Matt> you're screwed when the machine drops a component if you do that tho
[16:40] <Matt> cause you can't go back and pick another
[16:41] <RITRedbeard> and ICs usually fit a package size unless they're really oddball ones
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[16:42] <RITRedbeard> actually
[16:42] <RITRedbeard> if it weren't for volume pricing this would be a interesting way to make kits
[16:43] <RITRedbeard> unless you sample ICs and such for example, you are going to be hard pressed to make your own Beaglebone less than what TI can produce and sell it for
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[16:43] <Matt> and this is why part of the whole engineering process is opimizing the design to reduce the number of different components on the BOM
[16:44] <RITRedbeard> one way around the tax though is probably doing it as a kit, but that isn't RPF's goal
[16:44] <RITRedbeard> they want to deliver a finished product, no frills, plug it in
[16:44] <RITRedbeard> thus the discussion of kits and PnP
[16:45] <RITRedbeard> but fruitless
[16:45] <RITRedbeard> it was segue from the discussion about the china/uk/oh crap fiasco
[16:45] <RITRedbeard> and taxes
[16:46] <piofcube> You could use BGA sockets I guess... Like the zifs but for BGA?
[16:46] <Matt> blah :)
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[16:46] <Matt> intel used to do CPUs that way
[16:46] <RITRedbeard> I always thought that the sockets were expensive
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[16:46] <Matt> sockets are expensive
[16:46] <OneFix_Work> RITRedbeard: Yea, from the way the rPi foundation talks, it isn't likely for a small group to get a hold of the BroadCom chip in bulk, so it might be smarter to use a more easily available chip (like a TI) if you are thinking about doing your own project
[16:47] <piofcube> Why not use plastic and make them with a 3D printer?
[16:47] <Matt> I remember getting a 486SX which was an SMD device, on a small square PCB with the standard pin layout underneath
[16:47] <victhor> socketed CPUs normally come with pins instead of balls. Sometimes pads
[16:47] <victhor> I heard of BGA sockets but I never saw one... or I might have seen one but not know it
[16:47] <piofcube> Looking at some now
[16:48] <piofcube> Just a plastic housing on a hinge
[16:48] <Tobias> I like the idea of using a casette tape case
[16:49] <mkopack> Tobias UM, not sure that will be thick enough to handle the Ethernet jack
[16:49] <RITRedbeard> doubt most 3d printers have the resolution to print sockets that size, DIY ones anyway
[16:49] <Tobias> mkopack: that's why I'd cut a hole in it :P
[16:50] <OneFix_Work> victhor: The cost for the sockets increase the overall cost, which is why there are no socketed components on the rPi
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[16:50] <victhor> sockets are too big as well
[16:51] <mkopack> BTW, for those of you who missed it, somebody (RIT, do you remember who it was?) that works at that UK computer museum was in here last night and telling us how he's been doing some stuff with the Beta RPI that went to the museum...
[16:51] <piofcube> Yeah.. not for the R-Pi but for diy PnP/production in general
[16:52] <des2> Hey no touching the museum pieces
[16:52] <piofcube> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andysretrocomputers/6968175115/in/photostream/
[16:52] <mkopack> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andysretrocomputers/6974089403/lightbox/
[16:52] <piofcube> I like the sticker on the SD card ;-)
[16:52] <mkopack> Yeah, that's nice!
[16:55] <mkopack> He has to get it running some demo software for their display @ the museum??? and he has to give it back to the museum on Friday...
[16:56] <mkopack> But he seemed pretty willing to try out various tests that we asked him to do
[16:56] <des2> Including the drop test?
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[16:59] <RITRedbeard> Thinkpad loooves the drop test.
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[17:00] <hotwings> so instead of $35 + $8-$12 dollars shipping + local sales tax, ill be charged $40 including shipping + my local sales tax.. sounds good to me. i come out on top in that deal
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[17:01] <des2> good deal if you only order 1
[17:01] <Matt> or two, depending on how much shipping is
[17:02] <hotwings> how is it not a good deal otherwise?
[17:03] <mkopack> hot: I just don't get why we're paying local sales tax though...
[17:03] <mkopack> Unless Newark has a presence in your state they aren't supposed to charge you sales tax
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[17:06] <hotwings> in that case its not required but they still can
[17:06] <des2> they have lots of sales offices
[17:06] <Matt> the US sales tax always striles me as odd
[17:06] <Matt> but that's what you get for growing up in the UK
[17:06] <mkopack> Matt: How so?
[17:07] <Matt> you pay VAT on everything
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[17:07] <Matt> even stuff that comes in from overseas
[17:07] <mkopack> yeah, but it's a fixed rate??? And it's largely how our states make their money...
[17:08] <mkopack> You pay a different % depending upon how many steps products take to make??? We pay a set % regardless of the item
[17:08] <Matt> and if stuff is coming from another EEC country, you pay VAT at their rate
[17:08] <Matt> if you're a vat registered company, it all goes into your vat return as input vat
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[17:09] <mkopack> But that % is different depending upon where you are??? Different states have different rates, and different counties add in their own % as well.. It's part of how they differentiate themselves
[17:09] <Matt> there are only 4 VAT rates
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[17:09] <Matt> standard (which is just about everything)
[17:10] <hotwings> you should see the size of the printed form of out federal tax code.. its enormous.. just imagine if you stacked about 3 xbox 360s on top of each other
[17:10] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:10] <Matt> lower (which is basically for heating fuels)
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[17:10] <Matt> zero (for items which are technically vatable but carry no vat)
[17:10] <mkopack> Yeah, our tax code is a F'ing mess
[17:10] <Matt> and exempt (for items which aren't vatable)
[17:11] <mkopack> I'm ALL for the FairTax plan??? Makes WAY more sense to me
[17:11] <Matt> the difference between zero and exempt it subtle but important :)
[17:11] <hotwings> one of obamas big campaign promises was to simplify the tax code. and in true politician form, hes pass several bills which only make it more complex and help the wealthy while everyone else gets shafted.
[17:12] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
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[17:12] <Matt> things are a little more complex up here in .ca
[17:12] <passstab> hotwings : there is no debian testing image because you are supposed to use stable and change the repos
[17:12] <Matt> cause the provinces can set their own taxes, plus the federal GST
[17:13] <passstab> probably
[17:13] <hotwings> passstab - that is LAME
[17:13] <Matt> then you have provinces like ontario with a harmonised provincial and federal tax
[17:13] <Matt> which, like the UK VAT rates, has a standard and lower rate
[17:13] <Matt> they just screwed up the implementation and ended up costing everyone more money
[17:15] <hotwings> our tax code has been written by politicians who were/are corrupted by payoffs from big corporations, to benefit them at any cost to the average joe
[17:16] <hotwings> of course every 4 years we here presidential candidates go on and on about how theyre going to fix the rigged system.. but unfortunately theyre 1) lying from the start and are already compromised, or 2) get to washington with good intentions but quickly find out they aint changing shit
[17:16] <mkopack> Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, there should be NO "special exemptions" or anything like that. The second you start doing stuff like that to help one group or another, then EVEYRONE thinks they should be entitled to some special provision in the tax code. Or somebody else feels like they're getting screwed over.
[17:17] * MikeJ1971_ (~MikeJ1971@ilrt-it005663.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[17:17] <mkopack> hot: Yeah, I love the people who believe all the stuff the presidential candidates say they're going to do. The fact is, No 1 person in Washington to make ANYTHING happen.. They just don't have that much individual power. The president can't tie his shoes without Congress's help...
[17:17] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[17:19] <hotwings> thats the thing too.. the president is a temporary figure head.. he has far less power in goverment than people think. like you said, he needs congressional approval for damn everything
[17:19] <hotwings> he has veto power but even his vetos can be overturned
[17:19] <des2> couldn't tie his shoes? You're thinking of Bush.
[17:20] <bnmorgan> somebody wake me up when the chan returns to intelligent conversation
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[17:21] * PiBot sets mode +v andatche
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[17:21] <mkopack> The president, for all intents and purposes, is nothing more than a figurehead / cheerleader.
[17:21] <mkopack> ANyhow...
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[17:22] <hotwings> mkopack - apparently bnmorgan thinks these facts are unintelligent
[17:22] <mkopack> Man, this first day back to work after Daylight savings time SUCKS...
[17:22] <mkopack> I want my hour of sleep back!
[17:22] <bnmorgan> there are no facts in politics or opinions.
[17:23] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
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[17:23] <bnmorgan> it's all a matter of how much can they lie without somebody calling bullshit on them. end.
[17:24] <bnmorgan> any more brilliant deductions to share with us?
[17:24] <hotwings> no facts in politics?....wow
[17:24] <bnmorgan> smoke and mirrors. they're one step from the ministry of truth and ministry of love
[17:25] <hotwings> bnmorgan - did you drink before showing up today?
[17:25] * Tachyon (~tachyon@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust905.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[17:25] <bnmorgan> yep. water. plain cool clear well water from about 800 feet down.
[17:26] * gabriel9|work (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[17:27] <hotwings> what exactly has been said that you disagree with?
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[17:28] <drazyl> the gobbermint must have put something in teh wata!
[17:28] <bnmorgan> nothing that i noticed in particular.
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[17:53] <Henchman21> fluoride
[17:53] <Henchman21> purity of essence
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[18:11] <OneFix_Work> So, has anyone received their rPi yet or at least been given a shipping confirmation?
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[18:15] <hotwings> not i, we'll see in a couple weeks
[18:15] * Lukewh (~Adium@188-223-82-31.zone14.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[18:18] <piofcube> Sorting out studio so thought I would show the R-Pi template/model Beardface made for me :-) https://www.openindieproject.org/?page_id=385
[18:19] <bnmorgan> that's pretty cool.
[18:19] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:20] <bnmorgan> gives you something to use for mockup. didn't someone say there were already cases for sale for them?
[18:20] <piofcube> Yeah... beardface is and some others... Something to look at while I rig up the lights and other cameras ;-)
[18:21] <hotwings> every night someone in here spams ads for cases he made with his homemade 3d printer
[18:21] <bnmorgan> nobody is making inj molded cases yet?
[18:21] <piofcube> I got Beardface's prototype version and he's made improvements
[18:22] <hotwings> supposedly theyre coming bnmorgan
[18:23] <hotwings> the spam for those homemade 3d printed cases gets a little annoying.. maybe that stuff should be in #rasberrypi-classifieds
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[18:23] <piofcube> #raspberrypi-homemade perhaps?
[18:23] <hotwings> yeah
[18:25] <piofcube> I need to contact the foundation... see if I can get someone to do an interview with us... First episode would be great for that :-) If they have time ofcourse
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> They need to sort this out _rapidly_. Takedowns for actual accessories would be _bad_.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> I mean - takedowns for 'dummy' pis are slightly less important, but still bad.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Takedowns for actual Pi peripherals or cases would actively hurt.
[18:29] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:29] <oldtopman> It's one thing to take down the cases, but to flag the accounts of everyone who was selling something with the words "Raspberry" and "Pi" is just wrong.
[18:29] * Gadgetoid_mbp (~gadgetoid@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:29] <oldtopman> SpeedEvil: They reply on twitter fast. Go ask there.
[18:29] <piofcube> If they could state what's acceptable, that would be a good start. Someone making $1 profit on a 3D printed case is okay (IMHO) but a big manufacturer should give something to the foundation at the very least.
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[18:30] <_av500_> the hardware is not open source?
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> _av500_: No.
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> Not yet.
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> In many ways, it not being open source is quite irrelevant, as you simply cannot buy the SoC
[18:30] <_av500_> acceessories have to be licensed, like Disney merchandise?
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> (In volumes of under a few K)
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> I suspect even buying 10K will be problematic, and is only possible due to the involvement of broadcom staff)
[18:31] <bnmorgan> ok i'm confused, whos accounts are being slammed?
[18:31] <piofcube> well... the problem with that is... Many accessories could be used for any computer, not just the R-Pi...
[18:32] <_av500_> SpeedEvil: I know about the soc, but you spoke about accessories
[18:32] <_av500_> and takedowns
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> _av500_: I don't see how the hardware being open source has to do with accessories.
[18:32] <oldtopman> bnmorgan: Anyone on ebay selling an item with the words "Raspberry" or "pi"
[18:33] * Spikey (~chatzilla@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:33] <piofcube> Though... there are people selling sockets and stuff and stating "this would be ideal for the R-Pi" but there just bog-standard panel mounts
[18:33] <_av500_> bad choise of words on my side
[18:33] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:33] * PiBot sets mode +v chod
[18:33] <bnmorgan> oldtopman: who is taking them down? and why?
[18:33] <piofcube> they're**
[18:33] <oldtopman> bnmorgan: eBay on behest of the rPi foundation. The takedowns started due to people selling fakes, but they wen't overboard.
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> bnmorgan: Someone is cancelling raspberry-pi related acutions. Exactly who is doing this, and what the extent is - is another question.
[18:34] <bnmorgan> have we created a monster with our support?
[18:34] <oldtopman> bnmorgan: Indeed.
[18:34] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[18:34] <piofcube> I think some R-Pi fans are trawling eBay and reporting any R-Pi auctions... With the best intentions probs...
[18:34] <oldtopman> I preordered mine. I'm batch two.
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[18:35] <bnmorgan> i mean, i'd love to design and have some cases molded, but not if that kinda thing is going to happen.
[18:35] <oldtopman> I don't plan to see my rPi until May.
[18:35] <bnmorgan> mine is early april i think
[18:35] * Matthew is now known as Guest88100
[18:35] <oldtopman> bnmorgan: Then you're batch two with me.
[18:35] * jluisn (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:35] <Henchman21> least they havent charged me yet
[18:35] <piofcube> I the foundation can setup an account with... erm... that charity donation site that works with eBay... then the sellers could auto-donate to the foundation.
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> RASPBRRY-PCBA SBC, RASPBERRY PI, MODEL B Yes Awaiting Delivery ??26.55 ?? ??0.00 ?? ?? ?? Line Note: Supplier lead time 135 days
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> Woo.
[18:36] <oldtopman> whoah
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Farnell.
[18:36] <oldtopman> That's like batch 4 or somesuch?
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> This is an un-checked-out order.
[18:36] <oldtopman> I know, but just wondering what batch number that's going to be.
[18:36] <oldtopman> 135 day lead time :|
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> At some point it's meaningless to speak of batches.
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> If the factory is going 24*8
[18:37] <hotwings> [10:28:58] <piofcube> If they could state what's acceptable, that would be a good start. Someone making $1 profit on a 3D printed case is okay (IMHO) but a big manufacturer should give something to the foundation at the very least. <-- i dont mind anyone making any amount of profit. people can decide what theyre willing to pay. but i dont think rpif should get any royalties for it
[18:37] <piofcube> my order has est delivery of W/C 23rd April
[18:37] * sven1994_ (4fc2fafc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:38] <bnmorgan> i dunno, if they're going to turn into another apple, i may cancel mine. i may not be able to make a big difference but i sure ain't going to participate in a problem
[18:38] <hotwings> i personally am not going to busy an rpi case if i feel im being ripped off.. i know cheap injected cases will pop up so im not willing to pay much for a case no matter what
[18:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> don't buy a case - just stuff it somewhere useful
[18:38] <hotwings> buy.. not busy
[18:38] <bnmorgan> agree hotwings. i sure ain't gonna pay for a fdm case when i can build my own
[18:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> end of year I may get 3 or 4 with cases ....
[18:38] <Henchman21> im getting a gold/ruby encrusted...
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[18:39] * PiBot sets mode +v jluisn
[18:39] <RaTTuS|BIG> ;-p
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> Also - I want to sell modded pis at some point.
[18:39] -NickServ- Kickfightbot!~Kickfight@cl-219.osl-01.no.sixxs.net has just authenticated as you (DataBot)
[18:39] <RaTTuS|BIG> ooh pub time
[18:39] <piofcube> hotwings: I'm talking about a company that could produce 100K cases. with a hefty profit margin and probs using the R-Pi logo on the front... I think they should at least send something to the foundation.
[18:39] * RaTTuS|BIG staggers off
[18:39] <hotwings> rpif is supposefly going to be offering cases by summer.. only question is if theyll be at cost
[18:39] <bnmorgan> sounds like they got ghetto-rich when the sales went off the charts the first days
[18:39] <hotwings> piofcube - if they use the logo, yup i totally agree. if they dont then nope
[18:40] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-227-85.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:40] <Henchman21> balsa wood case
[18:41] <hotwings> a $10 piece of plexiglass should yield enough material to make 5-6 cases
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[18:41] * PiBot sets mode +v HienoMies
[18:41] <hotwings> plus the cost of glue or screws.. so another $2
[18:41] <HienoMies> So is it Pi time yet?
[18:42] <Henchman21> pi time we start rabbling
[18:42] <Henchman21> RABBLE!
[18:42] <HienoMies> Yes sir! Very good sir!
[18:42] <hotwings> just think what it will be like once people start receiving their pis here
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[18:42] <Henchman21> quiet
[18:43] <Henchman21> migrate to #raspberrypi-dev
[18:43] <HienoMies> "OMG it's so slow. My iPad is much faster!"
[18:43] <piofcube> can someone email a spare ribbon cable ;-)
[18:43] <hotwings> its going to be like the floor in a peep show
[18:43] <Henchman21> and start a moshpit in their happy quiet channel
[18:44] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[18:44] <hotwings> piofcube - which type? i have tons
[18:44] <hotwings> HienoMies - sounds about right ;\
[18:44] <piofcube> Just a standard IDE would do... Email it and I'll pull it out the floppy drive slot
[18:46] <hotwings> 40pin.. got a big pile of those. i'd gladly mail you one.. or some! get them outta my way :)
[18:48] <piofcube> I have a pile of them myself but I.. erm... blocked my storage area with loads of junk and boxes when i cleared away the studio areas... I'll just have to move them to get in ;-)
[18:48] <mkopack> So, I'm thinking the best use case for a Bramble of RPi's would be for distributed compiling for something like Gentoo
[18:49] <mkopack> given how frakin long that's going to take on a Pi, anything that you can do to speed it up should help
[18:49] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
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[18:50] <mkopack> I mean, even though it won't be a linear improvement, it'll still be significant to do it over 3-4 RPi's vs 1
[18:50] <piofcube> Shame the r-pis wouldn't be of use to the distributed computing project to find the true value of PI ;-)
[18:52] <piofcube> It would be neat "Raspberry-Pi finds Pi"
[18:53] <mkopack> Oh, any computer is useful in doing that???. Just maybe not SUPER useful compared to a bigger/faster system
[18:53] <mkopack> Well, that's assuming Pi EVER has an endpoint
[18:54] <mkopack> If we haven't found a repeating sequence or an endpoint by now, I'm not very hopeful there IS one
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[18:54] <piofcube> Just as long as they don't rely on windows calculator LOL
[18:55] <mkopack> lol
[18:56] <piofcube> I still remember the mess with win3.1's calc... it was so bad, Microsoft's answer was to send a free mousemat with a built-in calculator to anyone that complained LMAO
[18:56] * mkopack_ (~mkopack@70-10-69-176.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:56] <HienoMies> what was wrong with it?
[18:57] <mkopack_> Stupid 4G network hiccup
[18:57] <piofcube> oh... if you wanted simple maths like 22/1 it would say 21.9932312312
[18:57] <HienoMies> lol
[18:58] * ragna (~ragna@e180085177.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:58] <piofcube> people were getting bother from the TAX... Their returns were wrong LOL
[18:59] * mkopack (~mkopack@174-150-213-147.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:00] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:00] <piofcube> support.microsoft.com/kb/72540 is one example but they didn't fix it like they said they had LOL
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[19:01] * PiBot sets mode +v ole9
[19:01] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:01] * PiBot sets mode +v passstab
[19:01] * ru55377 (~rthicking@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:02] * mkopack_ (~mkopack@70-10-69-176.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:05] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@ Quit (Excess Flood)
[19:05] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:05] * PiBot sets mode +v bnmorgan
[19:06] * Lewmar (~Lewmar@gateway/tor-sasl/lewmar) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:06] * PiBot sets mode +v Lewmar
[19:08] <CuriosTiger> I wonder what Microsoft's oldest published KB article is
[19:12] * iccanobif (~iccanobif@host84-148-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:12] * PiBot sets mode +v iccanobif
[19:14] <hotwings> i dunno about rpis, but i think it would be cool to have a nvidia gpu farm and go to work on seti data :)
[19:16] * Kostic (~Kostic@net72-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Kostic
[19:16] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:18] <christinepea777> crunching seti data is, has always been, and will always be a waste of electricity
[19:18] * PReDiToR (~preditor@cpc3-york1-0-0-cust750.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:18] * PiBot sets mode +v PReDiToR
[19:19] * rob_ (~rob@dust.cx) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:19] * PiBot sets mode +v rob_
[19:20] <rob_> my supposed delivery date was today, anyone have any news about how long delivery is postponed for?
[19:20] <piofcube> The question is... which distro do I install on the studio demo computer? ;-)
[19:20] <PReDiToR> Arch!
[19:21] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[19:21] <neouf> hotwings: seti is off ? no ?
[19:21] <piofcube> arch would be fun
[19:21] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:22] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:22] * PiBot sets mode +v DDave
[19:22] <piofcube> well... I guess unless there's any other suggestions... Arch it will be :-)
[19:23] <normod> arch is great
[19:24] <piofcube> hmm.. should I download net or core install
[19:24] * johnLAPACHE (~lpche@juv34-1-82-225-182-193.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:24] * PiBot sets mode +v johnLAPACHE
[19:24] <des2> Arch Deluxe
[19:25] <piofcube> with fries?
[19:25] <HienoMies> ait
[19:25] <mkopack> pio: Well, considerino Fedora is supposed to be the "Official" Os for the Rpi, I'd suggest that??? Most of your non-techie viewers will see "Official" and use that one
[19:25] <normod> piofcube: core
[19:26] <mkopack> Ohhh.. supposedly a lot of interesting/useful info in here: http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/Raspberry_Pi_Fedora_Remix_Administration
[19:26] <piofcube> mkopack: makes sence but I can use that on the R-Pi when I get one :-)
[19:26] <normod> net is a smaller download but you'll have to download more from the repos later anyways when you do your Syyu
[19:27] <piofcube> true
[19:29] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[19:30] <piofcube> 14 mins to go for download
[19:30] <atts> does Arch have all of the closed binaries for rpi or is that only in the fedora distro?
[19:30] <Kostic> binaries are related to the kernel
[19:30] <Kostic> not the distribution
[19:30] <_av500_> i guess it can be stolen from fedora if needed
[19:31] <piofcube> arch uses pacman right?
[19:31] <Kostic> yes
[19:31] <Kostic> I would use Debian instead of the Arch though.
[19:32] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-35-11.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has left #raspberrypi
[19:32] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-35-11.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:32] * PiBot sets mode +v des2
[19:32] <piofcube> debian is nice... never used arch much
[19:32] <PReDiToR> Everyone has a personal preference
[19:33] <PReDiToR> Arch is a way. A philosophy.
[19:33] <des2> A meal.
[19:33] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:33] * PiBot sets mode +v joeka
[19:33] <piofcube> as long as it doesn't have unity ;-)
[19:34] <PReDiToR> Ewes
[19:34] <Kostic> Or gnome shell
[19:34] <PReDiToR> Eww. Sorry, autocorrect.
[19:34] <HienoMies> whats wrong with unity?
[19:34] <piofcube> sheep would be better than Unity LOL
[19:34] <des2> No Ubuntu for the Pi -so there.
[19:35] <piofcube> I just don't like it... It's erm... Unity
[19:35] <PReDiToR> Last useable Umbongo was 10.10
[19:35] <Kostic> Unity is the king of bloated software...
[19:35] <Kostic> I'm waiting Debian 7 and then I will jump over the XFCE ship. :D
[19:35] <HienoMies> oke
[19:36] <PReDiToR> LXDE is beautiful.
[19:36] * Christian10 (~christian@p4FF6ABF9.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian10
[19:36] <Kostic> Actually, 10.10 was shit because of one annoying bug related to the keyboard layout chooser. :D
[19:36] <philh> you don't have to use unity, installing gnome and switching it to classic mode is very simple
[19:36] <piofcube> 10 of the people I've converted to Ubuntu 10.x accidently clicked to do the distro upgrade and they were totally lost with Unity... I had to put them back to 10 to make them happy
[19:37] <Kostic> Don't want gnome in any shape... They blew it.
[19:37] <PReDiToR> Have to have GTK though. And Qt. How bloated.
[19:38] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-138-108.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:38] * PiBot sets mode +v kism3t
[19:38] <PReDiToR> Skype should drop Qt. IMO.
[19:38] <Kostic> Yea, had similliar experience. One dude installed 11.04 and called me to ask where to download Ubuntu... xD Then I told him that it is Ubuntu. He was so f*cking confused. LOL
[19:38] <des2> Qt seems to have won the universal library contest.
[19:38] <piofcube> TBH I'm suprised there is still Skype for Linux
[19:38] <philh> skype are more likely to drop linux support than qt support, surely
[19:39] <philh> that said, i can't imagine ms are very happy about using qt either
[19:39] <PReDiToR> Linux client > Windows. Less spam and foistware.
[19:39] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:39] <HienoMies> I installed ubu 11.10 and sure was lost for a moment
[19:39] <piofcube> Though it's funny how Microsoft patented the tech to evesdrop on Skype conversations :S
[19:40] * slackish (amcphall@mcphall.org) has left #raspberrypi
[19:40] <Kostic> ?????????? ????????, rm. :D
[19:41] <fakker> net blyad
[19:41] <rm> ????????????
[19:41] <fakker> :D
[19:41] <fakker> privet privet
[19:41] <HienoMies> reboot may repair that character failure :D
[19:41] <Kostic> :D
[19:42] <fakker> im not russian
[19:42] <fakker> i wish i was
[19:42] <fakker> ;[
[19:42] * facefox (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:42] <fakker> blyadfakker
[19:42] * facefox (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:42] * PiBot sets mode +v facefox
[19:42] <Kostic> Just to make thing clear, I'm not Russian neither... :D
[19:42] <Kostic> *things
[19:43] <fakker> :D
[19:43] <fakker> da
[19:44] * MenDin (~Win@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[19:49] * PiBot sets mode +v MenDin
[19:49] * whyz (~e@h145n7-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Quit: bbl)
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[19:52] * PiBot sets mode +v Space_Man
[19:53] * gy4e8d (~hgkjkljj@5ad9564d.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:53] * PiBot sets mode +v gy4e8d
[19:53] * Kostic (~Kostic@net72-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[19:54] * whyz (~e@h145n7-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] * PiBot sets mode +v whyz
[19:55] * gy4e8d (~hgkjkljj@5ad9564d.bb.sky.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[19:57] * PReDiToR (~preditor@cpc3-york1-0-0-cust750.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:58] * kism3t (~kism3t@client-80-3-138-108.bsh-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:02] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:02] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[20:02] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[20:02] <markus_> koaschten: Where are you from then?
[20:03] <koaschten> excuse me? that seems a kinda random question
[20:03] <markus_> koaschten: sorry, not you.You are welcome to answer anyway :)
[20:07] * MenDin (~Win@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:07] * MenDin (~Win@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:07] * PiBot sets mode +v MenDin
[20:07] <HienoMies> pi pi pi pi pi pi pi pi pi pi pi pi pi
[20:07] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[20:07] * HienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) Quit ()
[20:07] <GabrialDestruir> Pi ^ Pi
[20:08] <GabrialDestruir> I'm curious.... if Pi goes one forever.....
[20:09] <GabrialDestruir> wouldn't Pi Squared go one forever? and Pi * a number, etc?
[20:09] * facefox (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:09] <Pulser> yes, since pi goes on forever
[20:09] <GabrialDestruir> on*
[20:09] <Pulser> any multiple of pi goes on forever
[20:09] <Pulser> AFAIK
[20:10] <piofcube> bah... I need to upgrade the stream software to get high res video out :S
[20:10] <GabrialDestruir> I'm going to laugh if one of these days a computer is all like "Last Digit of Pi! There is no more! All math is wrong!"
[20:10] * facefox (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:10] * PiBot sets mode +v facefox
[20:12] <Aquilus_> GabrialDestruir: Don't be silly. That'd be irrational.
[20:12] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[20:12] <GabrialDestruir> Exactly :p
[20:13] * facefox (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:16] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:16] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[20:17] <mkopack> Lol, so in reference to the upcoming Pi day, and all the rambling about Tau being the more correct mathematical constant, how long until a "Blackberry Tau" is released? LOL
[20:18] <GabrialDestruir> Tau.... twice the power, half the price? >.>
[20:18] <GabrialDestruir> and it'd probably be like Blueberry Tau....
[20:19] <GabrialDestruir> because Blackberry would start suing people for using their name
[20:20] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@246-73.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:20] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy_
[20:20] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@246-73.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:20] <mkopack> Oh, crap, yeah, forgot about those guys...
[20:20] <des2> That Tau stuff is silly.
[20:20] * FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:20] * PiBot sets mode +v FACEFOX
[20:20] <mkopack> Of course, by the time we're ready for the Tau, Blackberry might not even exist (given how fast they're managing to self destruct)
[20:21] <GabrialDestruir> True....
[20:21] <GabrialDestruir> But I bet they'd still try even if they were going belly up
[20:22] <mkopack> Man did they totally underestimate the demand for the iPhone + Android vs their product mix??? And didn't really do anything to address their own shortcomings once the writing was on the wall
[20:22] <GabrialDestruir> I want to build get a Pi....
[20:22] <GabrialDestruir> whom's sole purpose....
[20:22] <GabrialDestruir> will be to calculate Pi
[20:22] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> It's 4.
[20:23] <DDave> nope Its 6
[20:23] <DDave> I proved that in maths 1
[20:23] <DDave> :D
[20:23] <GabrialDestruir> Not 6.28? :p
[20:24] * Kushan (KucluX@s9.rdlbnc.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[20:24] <GabrialDestruir> I'd need a way to store the data though....
[20:25] <mkopack> the CLOUD!!!!
[20:25] * FFes (~quassel@53545D49.cm-6-5b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:25] * PiBot sets mode +v FFes
[20:26] <GabrialDestruir> I could take advantage of DreamHost's unlimited storage.... xD
[20:27] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@240-198.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:27] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy_
[20:27] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder how big a text file can get before it's too big to open....
[20:27] <mkopack> lol....
[20:28] <mkopack> Depends on the editor??? some won't try to open the whole file, but will seek to get only what you can see on the screen + a little more
[20:29] <mkopack> So you can basically have an unlimited length file??? Although most filesystems have a limit to a single files' size??? But then you just spawn a .1 .2 .3, etc file
[20:31] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[20:31] <GabrialDestruir> Interesting....
[20:32] * joohoo340 (93b12971@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:32] * Davespice_ (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Davespice_
[20:33] <mkopack> So as long as you don't try to do huge jumps all over the file, it won't be too bad
[20:34] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:34] * cdi-1forstmann (~cdi-1fors@027c0d85.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:34] * PiBot sets mode +v cdi-1forstmann
[20:34] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:34] <GabrialDestruir> Apparently calculating Pi to 2,500,000,000 places takes 11GBs
[20:34] <GabrialDestruir> o.o
[20:34] * cdi-1forstmann is now known as IT_Sean
[20:35] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@027c0d85.bb.sky.com) Quit (Changing host)
[20:35] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:35] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[20:35] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[20:35] * bfrost (~brian@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> There are other ways.
[20:36] * pizthewiz_ (~pizthewiz@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:36] * PiBot sets mode +v pizthewiz_
[20:37] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Davespice
[20:37] * zgedneil (~rus@cpc14-cbly5-2-0-cust1.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] * PiBot sets mode +v zgedneil
[20:38] * joeka (~joe@dslb-178-007-145-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: bye)
[20:38] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[20:38] * PiBot sets mode +v convolution
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html - a third of the way doen - how to calculate pi
[20:38] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:38] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[20:39] * Davespice_ (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:39] <IT_Sean> How to caluclate pi: Roll out pi crust. Place lower crust in Pi tin. Pour in delicious Pi filling. Place upper Pi crust over top. Ventilate to prevent asplosions. Bake at 350 'till top is golden and flakey.
[20:40] <GabrialDestruir> Let's see...... on my desktop I'm calculating to 2,147,483,648 places, and it takes 9.58GB
[20:40] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[20:40] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[20:40] * pizthewiz_ is now known as pizthewiz
[20:40] <mkopack> Do you know if there's a multi-threaded algorithm for doing it?
[20:41] <GabrialDestruir> y-chruncher seems to use a multi-thread method
[20:41] <IT_Sean> mkopack: there is, but you need a 2nd oven.
[20:41] <mkopack> sean: Awe, can't put more than 1 in an oven at a time? LOL
[20:42] <IT_Sean> mkopack: you need a multicore oven (one with two baking shelves) but the results are less reliable.
[20:42] <GabrialDestruir> But I figure, if I was going to use Pi to calculate Pi, I'd need to somehow calculate it maybe 100 places at a time
[20:42] <GabrialDestruir> Or 1,000 at a time, then push those to a file, and continue with the next 1,000
[20:43] <des2> I would keep eating the digits when they came out of the oven.
[20:44] <mkopack> des: Yes, but then you'd get really fat :)
[20:45] * Guest88100 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:45] * AdrianG (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] * PiBot sets mode +v AdrianG
[20:45] <AdrianG> hi raspberries
[20:45] <AdrianG> are there any clones yet
[20:45] <AdrianG> that r cheaper
[20:45] <mkopack> lol
[20:46] <GabrialDestruir> o.o
[20:46] <GabrialDestruir> apparently y-chruncher can utilize 353.551% of my CPU
[20:46] <GabrialDestruir> what?
[20:47] <AdrianG> ur raspberry cpu?
[20:47] <GabrialDestruir> my desktop cpu
[20:47] <mkopack> You know, that's the real risk here??? the longer it takes for the Rpi to come out, especially now that the size and demand of the market for them has been seen, the more likely some 3rd party comes out with a similar product
[20:47] <mkopack> Gab: Multiple core CPU?
[20:47] <GabrialDestruir> Yea
[20:47] <mkopack> there ya go
[20:47] <GabrialDestruir> so I'm guessing that's what that is about xD
[20:47] <mkopack> yeah
[20:48] <AdrianG> mkopack: i hope they get some competitions soon enough
[20:48] <GabrialDestruir> 25,000,000 decimal of Pi is 2
[20:48] <AdrianG> i wants a 10 dollar x86 2ghz board
[20:48] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[20:48] <mkopack> Well, if they don't get something out soon, it's going to look kinda bad???
[20:49] <AdrianG> yep
[20:49] <AdrianG> the demand si ridiculous
[20:49] <mkopack> If there's another big problem (like the boards come back again and there's another major problem) then it's going to be bad news
[20:50] * Kushykins (~Kushykins@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:50] * PiBot sets mode +v Kushykins
[20:50] * Kushykins is now known as Kushan
[20:50] <mrdragons> They should just stop talking to us lol
[20:50] <AdrianG> mkopack: what major problems have occured
[20:50] <GabrialDestruir> There shouldn't be any other "major" problem
[20:50] <mkopack> AdrianG: there was the issue with the Ethernet jacks
[20:51] <AdrianG> oic
[20:51] <GabrialDestruir> according to what they said, save the rj45 issue, the rest of the pi was fine
[20:51] <AdrianG> damn
[20:51] <AdrianG> beagleboard is 150 bux
[20:51] <mrdragons> The jacks still worked iirc, just not well
[20:52] <mkopack> dragons: True??? they're being really open with us, but that's a double edged sword???. We like that they keep us in the loop with info, but when it's bad info, it makes them look bad??? Ad when it's good info, people often blow it out of proportion or interpret any sort of timeframe as a solid release date.
[20:52] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:52] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[20:52] <GabrialDestruir> The way their post m ade it seem is, "Wrong Jacks, No interwebz"
[20:53] <AdrianG> wut
[20:53] <GabrialDestruir> Wth am I wasting my time computing Pi when I could be playing Duke Nukem Forever or something
[20:53] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[20:54] <mrdragons> It's pretty shitty that the factory decided to switch out the parts, with no consideration to the company
[20:54] <AdrianG> any distributions for Pi ?
[20:54] <mrdragons> Makes you wonder what else the swapped...
[20:54] <mrdragons> Yep, debian, fedora, arch, and openELEC
[20:54] <GabrialDestruir> From my understanding of their post, the only thing swapped was the rj45
[20:55] <AdrianG> anstrom doesnt run?
[20:55] <GabrialDestruir> apparently Pi at 134,217,700 places is also 2
[20:55] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[20:55] <mrdragons> Probably does, but those are the "official" distros
[20:55] <mkopack> Gabrial: LOL??? I still need to get back to that game...
[20:55] <mkopack> one of these years I'll get around to finishing it
[20:55] * chronofast (ada79aac@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:55] * PiBot sets mode +v chronofast
[20:56] <GabrialDestruir> I bought it yesterday at half price
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[20:56] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[20:56] <GabrialDestruir> and it downloaded over night
[20:56] * Matthew is now known as Guest57677
[20:56] <zgreg> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/how-slow-is-it/#p52507 <-- err... wut? this is SO WRONG in every way
[20:57] <chronofast> mines on backorder scheduled delivery for april 3rd from element 14, is that about average?
[20:57] <rm> zgreg, what exactly is wrong?
[20:57] <mkopack> Chrono: Yeah, right now most people's orders from element 14 range from end of march to mid May??? Just depends
[20:58] <chronofast> mkopack, thanks, i appreciate it
[20:58] <rm> the post by DaQuatz? looks pretty reasonable
[20:58] <zgreg> rm: that ARM11 is faster than a pentium 2, clock by clock
[20:58] <mkopack> zgreg: yeah I've read the first 3 pages of that thread??? it's all a lot of speculation??? I AM concerned about what Gert posted about the "pauses" when he was trying to work on GPIO code??? But that could just be something that needs to be done in the scheduler or something in the OS
[20:58] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[20:58] <zgreg> no, it's completely unreasonable
[20:58] <GabrialDestruir> and supposedly everyones dates got pushed back.
[20:59] <rm> they said on integer operations
[20:59] <rm> like addition and substraction
[20:59] <zgreg> if you have any clue whatsoever about cpu architectures
[20:59] <Henchman21> new southpark this week ;)
[20:59] <rm> nothing more was claimed
[20:59] <mkopack> Hench: Yup! Can't wait!
[20:59] <Henchman21> reverse cowgirl
[20:59] <mkopack> Hench??? :)
[21:00] <GabrialDestruir> wth, pretty sure windows 98 came on computers around 700Mhz didn't it? o.O
[21:00] <mkopack> Is that the name of the episode???
[21:00] <AdrianG> why is that unreasonable
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[21:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Martix
[21:00] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:00] <AdrianG> its a budget board
[21:00] <AdrianG> its expected to be slow.
[21:00] <Henchman21> yeah thats the episode title
[21:00] <Henchman21> 8D
[21:00] <mkopack> HAHA, I was running windows 98 on a Cyrix 5x86-120!
[21:00] <AdrianG> kewl
[21:01] <mkopack> Hench: HAHA OMG??? That's going to be epic! Their first eps of the season usually are fantastic
[21:01] <zgreg> no, seriously, a pentium 2 will run circles around an ARM11 at the same clock.
[21:01] <Henchman21> i hear they will be making fun of TSA
[21:01] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:01] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:01] <mkopack> I'm sure there will be some fantastic new Cartman-isms
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[21:01] * PiBot sets mode +v pizthewiz
[21:01] <zgreg> and the comparison in the FAQ is pretty reasonable
[21:02] <Henchman21> i've been watching all the old ones on netflix
[21:02] <Henchman21> for the past month
[21:02] <mkopack> I had Cartman singing Kenny Rogers stuck in my head the other day???. "You picked a fine time to leave me Lucile"
[21:02] <rm> zgreg, there are probably some corner cases, and you can come up with synthetic benchmarks, where they will match clock for clock
[21:03] <AdrianG> what kind of x86 can u get for 35 bux
[21:03] <rm> poster proposed one, I am not certain they are correct at all
[21:03] <rm> but it at least sounds a bit plausible
[21:03] <chronofast> Is there going to be any distro that will be opengl gpu hardware accelerated for the PI?
[21:03] <mkopack> Individual benchmarks are USELESS??? You need to run a large suite of them, testing all sorts of different types of operations and data sizes to really get a good comparison on a general basis
[21:03] <zgreg> rm: very unlikely
[21:03] <rm> and not as grossly wrong as you paint it :p
[21:04] <GabrialDestruir> I'm waiting for Pi to get in a wild, so people can do proper benchmark comparisons
[21:04] * area (~area@unaffiliated/area) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:04] <mkopack> If you're only trying to do ONE specific type of thing, then yes a single benchmark can give you a feel for doing that one thing on different machines/architectures
[21:04] <mkopack> But it doesn't give you a clear picture of how other things will work
[21:04] <zgreg> get a random low-end android smartphone, these also have ARM11
[21:04] <AdrianG> they are expensive
[21:04] <AdrianG> def not 35 bux
[21:05] <zgreg> yeah, but you can borrow one, for testing
[21:05] <GabrialDestruir> If it can run linux well enough, why even compare it to an x86? .-.
[21:06] <mkopack> Cheapest CPU on NEwegg is a Refurbed P4 2.6 Ghz Socket 478 for $11.99
[21:06] <AdrianG> god damn
[21:06] <AdrianG> 12 bux
[21:06] <mkopack> Of course, you still need to add in RAM, MB...
[21:06] <GabrialDestruir> 12 bucks what? o.o
[21:06] <AdrianG> u can probably get some ram and super old mobo for another 20
[21:06] <mkopack> USD
[21:06] <mrdragons> Not bad, what's the cheapest mobo?
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[21:06] * klm[_] (milkman@ Quit (Changing host)
[21:06] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:06] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[21:06] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[21:06] <hamitron> 99c on ebay? ;/
[21:06] <AdrianG> I bought a full workstation, dell gx620 with amonitor
[21:06] <AdrianG> for 70 bux
[21:07] <AdrianG> p4 2.4 it hink
[21:07] * Kyzz (~quassel@cpe-24-166-81-109.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:07] * kevin1 (~kevin@cpe-24-166-81-109.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:07] <AdrianG> Item image Asus P4S266-VX Motherboard (Used for Sony VAIO PCV-RX780G) Expedited shipping available Returns: Not accepted 0 Bids Buy It Now $10.00
[21:07] <mrdragons> ^^He was in here under two nicks? 0_o
[21:07] <mkopack> Adriang: LOL and that will run circles around the RPi
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[21:07] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[21:07] <GabrialDestruir> Hell, for those prices I could probably take 150 bucks and build a little home made router... lol
[21:07] <AdrianG> mkopack: i know, im using it right now lol
[21:07] <rm> zgreg, I wonder what's the memory bandwidth on RPi
[21:07] <AdrianG> mkopack: and it came with a 17 inch monitor that fell of my table and died
[21:08] <rm> have you seen any benchmarks of that posted anywhere?
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[21:08] * PiBot sets mode +v tr-808
[21:08] <mkopack> Sure, if you go ebay for used equipment you can get really low prices??? granted, there's the shipping costs, and the size+power differences as well
[21:08] <AdrianG> damn
[21:08] <hamitron> mkopack, it would run circles around the Rpi.... but not for long when running on battery ;)
[21:08] <AdrianG> why are ppl so hyped up about Rpi ?
[21:08] <AdrianG> when u get a powerful machine for half the price
[21:08] <AdrianG> if not less
[21:08] <des2> Will Rpi run Memtest86+ ?
[21:08] <AdrianG> lol des
[21:08] <AdrianG> haha
[21:08] <GabrialDestruir> You can't get a powerful machine for 10-15 USD
[21:08] <rm> des2, no idea, but there's "ramspeed"
[21:08] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[21:08] <mkopack> Adrian :well, for me, because given it's price vs power requirements+size it's WAY better than anything else I can find for doing robotics work...
[21:09] <AdrianG> ECS EZlitegroup P4VXASD2+ motherboard - 9.50 + returns accepted within 7 days
[21:09] <mkopack> Arduino stuff is NOWHERE NEAR powerful enough to do some AI robotics stuff
[21:09] <AdrianG> mkopack: ic so for true embedded
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[21:09] <AdrianG> i can see that
[21:09] * PiBot sets mode +v area
[21:09] <mkopack> There's BeagleBoard/Bone, but those are more expensive
[21:09] <hamitron> I got a 2nd hand laptop with a P4 1.8ghz for the price of the Rpi
[21:09] <zgreg> rm: theoretical performance should be about 2.5-3 GB/s
[21:09] * atts (~asheehan@static-99-136-171-68.axsne.net) has left #raspberrypi
[21:09] <zgreg> rm: minus what the GPU needs
[21:09] <rm> hm, really
[21:10] <zgreg> the real issue is that the ARM11 does not have L2 cache, and only a very small L1 cache
[21:10] <AdrianG> ebay is full of really, really cheap parts
[21:10] <AdrianG> wow
[21:10] <mkopack> And yeah, there's netbooks and laptops, but they're relatively big and heavy compared to the RPi, have hard drives which can die due to vibrations, and cost a lot more??? And don't have the GPIO pins
[21:10] <rm> those P2 with their PC66-PC133 SDRAM were pushing about 240 MB/sec at most
[21:10] <AdrianG> god damn
[21:10] <des2> Yeah you can great hardware deals.
[21:10] <AdrianG> rm: ram access?
[21:10] <rm> yes
[21:11] <des2> Like 8 port sata 2 PCI controllers for $38.
[21:11] <rm> where where
[21:11] <zgreg> rm: actually it's about 1 GB/s
[21:11] <wwalker> mkopack: agreed. the rpi + a gertboard looks like an arduino killer to me.
[21:11] <Tachyon> oh hello hamitron
[21:11] <hamitron> evening Tachyon :)
[21:11] <Tachyon> did you attempt to get a pi?
[21:11] <rm> zgreg, this time I mean real benchmarked speed, not theoretical though
[21:11] <hamitron> no
[21:11] <zgreg> again, the theoretical maximum - but anyway, the difference is not that big
[21:11] <Tachyon> ah, I was up at 6am and came away with bugger all
[21:11] <Tachyon> like most people
[21:11] <Tachyon> lol
[21:11] <des2> Gertboards seem a bit expensive.
[21:11] <mkopack> wwalker: well, I don't know about that.. will depend on how things work out once Gert i done??? But RPi+Arduino Mega = pretty damn powerful robotics controller all things considered
[21:11] <hamitron> :/
[21:12] <zgreg> any additional RAM bandwidth the rpi might have will be very likely offset by the complete lack of L2 cache
[21:12] <AdrianG> man.
[21:12] <AdrianG> ebay used parts is the greatest idea in the world
[21:12] <AdrianG> imma buy myself an ancient laptop
[21:12] <hamitron> I decided a while ago, I'll wait till there is no waiting list ;)
[21:12] <mkopack> I traded emails with Gert earlier today??? He said he's running into a show-stopper problem with the Atmel chip he's trying to use and has a call in for tech support from Atmel...
[21:13] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:13] <Tachyon> although it does give me time to get a reasonable zipit order in since I know I won't see a pi until june now, when I get some I'll prod you, just going to put an order in myself for 20 and sell a few on when they turn up, seems easier
[21:13] <hamitron> Tachyon, I think I'll only want 1 now
[21:13] <mkopack> He ALSO said that it looks like all the boards coming back from the production house DO have the GPIO pins soldered in, Male pins (rather than the female sockets)
[21:13] <Tachyon> well I want 16 for my cluster
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[21:13] <rm> pffft
[21:13] <Tachyon> so there won't be that many spare
[21:13] <rm> again, they don't even know what they're producing
[21:13] <AdrianG> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-Latitude-D510-Laptop-Notebook-Pentium-M-PM-1-73GHz-15-LCD-NO-HDD-MEMORY-/130662375793?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item1e6c15a171
[21:13] <AdrianG> cheaper than rpi
[21:13] <hamitron> decided I really should cut down on the amount of junk ;)
[21:14] <des2> They had 10,000 in the UK. What's with the "looks like".
[21:14] <hamitron> the rpi has more memory
[21:14] <des2> Did the 10,000 have GPIO pins soldered or not ?
[21:14] <mkopack> des: That's what I was led to believe from Gert
[21:15] <des2> Companies of 100,000 employees have better communication than this foundation with a handful.
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[21:15] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[21:15] <AdrianG> hamitron: granted.
[21:15] <mkopack> the message I sent to him was asking specifically if the Gertboard was going to have the GPIO interface pins/sockets open for us to populate or with them already in. I was concerned because I have the "slice of Pie" board coming and that has female, which means the RPi would need Male pins
[21:16] <GabrialDestruir> I hate acer -.-
[21:16] <mkopack> "Subject: Gertboard connector to RPi GPIO
[21:16] <mkopack> From: Gert
[21:16] <mkopack> To: mkopack
[21:16] <mkopack> First release will be PCB which you have to solder yourself.
[21:16] <mkopack> IF (big IF) ready boards are available that will take a while but will still expect raspi to have male header straight.
[21:16] <mkopack> PCB design is ready to go but I can't make the final relase until I have tested the interface with the ATMEga chip. Major problems there. I have been trying to solve that for two weeks. Now have a 'urgent support request' at Atmel asking them to send an FAE by my house ASAP.
[21:16] <mkopack> Read forum thread about GPIO FEMALE something... In there I post about production boards. Seems some or all of the boards will have male header straight already in place.
[21:16] <mkopack> "
[21:17] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:17] <mrdragons> Their factory sucks.
[21:17] <AdrianG> why so many ebay laptops have no hdds? whats up with that
[21:17] <haltdef> more profitable to sell the hdd on its own perha[s
[21:17] <haltdef> +spelling
[21:17] <PReDiToR> Privacy/security?
[21:17] <des2> SOld with them removed by companies for security reasons.
[21:17] <mkopack> Adrian: Because 1) people take them out to use them for other computers or as external backups and 2) you don't want to risk somebody being able to recover your data off them
[21:18] <AdrianG> idk
[21:18] <GabrialDestruir> Perhaps privacy/security, or perhaps, just because comapnies sell shitty drives with their computers
[21:18] <GabrialDestruir> and they die
[21:18] <AdrianG> i think its more money that way
[21:18] <AdrianG> selling both separately
[21:18] <mrdragons> Why not just fill it with null bytes?
[21:18] <GabrialDestruir> so the person sells the computer
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[21:18] * PiBot sets mode +v kevin1
[21:18] <PReDiToR> mrdragons: Because not everyone knows how
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[21:19] <AdrianG> i think stores part them out
[21:19] <AdrianG> u can make more profit that way
[21:19] <des2> You have to write the same place over several times to be sure data is erased.
[21:19] <des2> Takes lots of time.
[21:19] <GabrialDestruir> There's also a spread of misinformation that even if you do a DoD wipe that it can still be recovered....
[21:19] <rm> that's an urban myth
[21:19] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[21:20] <des2> More than the hard drive is worth.
[21:20] <piofcube> some suggest encrypt the drive first then null out the disk several times to be totally sure LOL
[21:20] <GabrialDestruir> So people tend to avoid that keep the HDD
[21:20] <mkopack> dragons: and that's not a perfect solution. We had some old drives with DoD data on them, We had to run something that would write alternately 00's then 1's to every sector of the disk 7 times and THEN I had to drill a damn hole through the thing, and take pictures and send them back with the serial numbers to keep the DoD happy
[21:20] <rm> the truth is, even if you overwrite just once, it will be next to impossible even for someone like DoD to recover anything
[21:20] <_av500_> correct
[21:20] <rm> with modern drives and their write densities
[21:21] <_av500_> but overwriting 7 times under a full moon is more romantic
[21:21] <piofcube> Google just breaks theirs up into bits
[21:21] <AdrianG> can soembody recommend a network storage enclosure
[21:21] <mrdragons> Heh
[21:21] <AdrianG> somethign i can stuff with my own hdds
[21:21] <PReDiToR> Thermite
[21:21] <_av500_> stuff thermite with hdds?
[21:21] <GabrialDestruir> Except TV Shows, like to show them being able to restore even the most "secure" data.
[21:21] <piofcube> stuff kids with thermite?
[21:21] <GabrialDestruir> so there is too much misinformation main stream
[21:22] <mkopack> Adrian: I have a Drobo...
[21:22] <AdrianG> i think he's suggesting thermite instead of nullbytes
[21:22] <_av500_> mkopack: I have a Lacie, but it was free
[21:22] <des2> Antec Case with 6 drive bays behind fans Adrian. Available for ~ $50 often
[21:22] <AdrianG> des2: but wbu the ethernet/sata controller
[21:22] <piofcube> or just stick a LithPoly into the HDD and hit it LOL
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[21:22] <GabrialDestruir> I sugest.... Liquid Nitro, then thermite >.>
[21:22] <GabrialDestruir> suggest*
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Overwriting is not guaranteed anymore to remove all data.
[21:22] <AdrianG> liquid nitro + baseball bat would be enough
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[21:23] * PiBot sets mode +v Arc_
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> Simply as the drive has 'spare' tracks that may be remapped transparently to the OS
[21:23] <PReDiToR> But thermite would be more fun
[21:23] <hamitron> I suggest not been so violent, and just not throw them away? :/
[21:23] <mkopack> So who's going to be first? Rasp Pi deliveries or SpaceX launching their Dragon capsule to the ISS?
[21:23] <GabrialDestruir> Yes but a Liquid Nitro drive, with thermite dripping onto it will be more entertaining
[21:23] <GabrialDestruir> I'm sure.
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[21:24] <_av500_> I take old drives apart, keep the magnets for fun and trash the platters
[21:24] <AdrianG> mkopack: lol
[21:24] <_av500_> fridge magnets that can move the fridge are fun
[21:24] <des2> Buy a cheap motherboard or an Intel atom board for $85.
[21:24] <PReDiToR> Platters make good coasters
[21:24] <mkopack> I made a clock out of an old 5.25" MFM drive
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[21:24] <mrdragons> mkopack: Nice
[21:24] <AdrianG> des2: that needs cpu/ram etc bs
[21:24] <GabrialDestruir> Just put a friggin electro magnet next to it or something....
[21:24] <piofcube> mkopack: did you do that just so it would be quieter? ;-)
[21:24] <mkopack> LOL
[21:24] <GabrialDestruir> those are suppose to wipe HDDs
[21:24] <Tachyon> PReDiToR, hi
[21:24] <_av500_> GabrialDestruir: actaully, that is hard
[21:24] <Tachyon> didn't expect to see you in here, lol
[21:25] <des2> How many drives do you want in the case Adrian ?
[21:25] <_av500_> 64
[21:25] <_av500_> nice round number
[21:25] <PReDiToR> Hello Tachyon. Yeah, I get about =)
[21:25] <Tachyon> it's adam from york/guppies etc.
[21:25] <GabrialDestruir> Not 256? >.>
[21:25] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[21:25] <AdrianG> des2: 2
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[21:26] <Tachyon> did you get a Pi? neither I nor Lez did -.-
[21:26] <AdrianG> my case is alerady full.
[21:26] <Tachyon> despite being up at 6am on the right day
[21:26] <PReDiToR> Tachyon: Yeah, I posted on FB
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=0&cat=recent - spacex - reusability
[21:26] <Tachyon> ahh, I don't actually read that all the time -.o
[21:26] <AdrianG> whats the maximum length for usb cables?
[21:27] <Tachyon> what you planning to do with it?
[21:27] <mkopack> Speed Yeah, seen that video??? believe that when I see it??? I don't see how the hell they're carrying enough "spare" fuel onboard to do that
[21:27] <GabrialDestruir> Isn't it like 25 feet?
[21:27] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[21:27] <des2> For 2 drives get a pogoplug for $26 and 2 USB encosures for the drives.
[21:27] <mkopack> speed: Especially the capsule stage??? No chutes at all to even slow it down???
[21:27] <PReDiToR> Waiting on RS to get back to me with order form. Had confirmation of success.
[21:27] <GabrialDestruir> Actually
[21:27] <GabrialDestruir> looks like 5 Meters
[21:28] <Tachyon> aye, I didn't fill in the form soon enough
[21:28] <GabrialDestruir> So 16 Feet
[21:28] <Tachyon> as there was a tweet
[21:28] <Tachyon> that said it was the wrong page
[21:28] <GabrialDestruir> Yea we all got screwed.
[21:28] <Tachyon> and by the time I did fill it in a lot of others had so not so good
[21:28] <GabrialDestruir> If you want to believe some of the people in here, they ordered several hours afterwards
[21:28] <GabrialDestruir> and have march dates
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: The rockets are also dual-purpose for escape - and need to be there anyway. If you haven't used them for escape, you can use for landing
[21:29] <GabrialDestruir> I ordered mine 2 hours after, and have an April date
[21:29] <Tachyon> well, I filled in that form about 40 minutes in
[21:29] <AdrianG> des2: i was thinking of buying and old laptop, and hooking up drives into it via usb lol
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[21:29] * PiBot sets mode +v solidd
[21:29] <PReDiToR> I had already filled that in by 3 minutes past
[21:30] * a5m0 (~Arc@unaffiliated/a5m0) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:30] <des2> A lot of people use the < $30 pogoplug. It's sort of designed for that.
[21:30] * PiBot sets mode +v a5m0
[21:30] <mkopack> Speed: I realize that??? but still??? Look at that capsule.. It's plunging towards the ground at terminal velocity after reentry??? You're going to slow it from 300+ MPH to 0 in a gradual decent??? That means a LOT of fuel burned for a relatively long period...
[21:30] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:30] <mkopack> WHERE are they storing that much fuel?
[21:30] <des2> Even can run Arch linux like the PI
[21:30] * prebz__ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:30] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz__
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: it's not _that_ much fuel.
[21:30] <mkopack> And for the 1st and 2nd stages, that reentry/landing fuel weight = less weight to orbit
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: The amount of residual fuel you need to move an empty stage is a lot less than you need to move a full one.
[21:31] <AdrianG> des2: its 50 bux+ shippping
[21:31] <mkopack> You're not "moving" it, you're trying to do precision landing at safe speeds
[21:31] <GabrialDestruir> I think Acer's phone/computer is broken .-.
[21:31] <GabrialDestruir> It's spouting like binary and crap
[21:31] * Kushan (~Kushykins@ Quit (Quit: Hosted by rdlBNC (Server 9 - United Kingdom))
[21:32] * mPReDiToR (~PReDiToR@unaffiliated/preditor) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:32] * PiBot sets mode +v mPReDiToR
[21:32] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:32] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
[21:32] * JaLu (~jalu@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:32] <AdrianG> des2: where is it for 30 bux?
[21:32] <des2> Are you in Sweden ?
[21:32] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:32] <AdrianG> no?
[21:32] <AdrianG> canada
[21:32] * jprvita (~jprvita@las-gw.ic.unicamp.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:32] * PiBot sets mode +v jprvita
[21:33] <AdrianG> they are 30 in sweden?
[21:33] * Arc_ (~Arc@cpe-173-175-202-7.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[21:33] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:33] * rob_ (~rob@dust.cx) has left #raspberrypi
[21:33] <des2> http://www.buy.com/prod/pogoplug-personal-cloud-media-sharing-solution-black/221688297.html
[21:33] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:33] * PiBot sets mode +v MystX
[21:34] <des2> No you're using an IRC server in Sweden.
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> Freenode does server hiding
[21:34] <des2> In the US jr.com had pogoplugs for $20 a few weeks ago.
[21:34] <mrdragons> Mine's in paris, france, lol
[21:34] <mkopack> haha, boss just called me to ask if I'm going to be in the staff meeting tomorrow so they can present me with my 10 year service award???
[21:35] <mkopack> Scary to think I've been here for 10 years.
[21:35] <mkopack> longest I ever stayed anywhere before here was 2 years
[21:35] <des2> Will it be a lamp shaped like a leg ?
[21:35] <passstab> mkopack so you started work one day after the first arch release !
[21:36] <mkopack> LOL. almost as bad, from what I've seen of the "service award gift catalog" that we get to pick from
[21:36] <solidd> pogoplug has that storage service built in right?
[21:36] * PReDiToR_ (~preditor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:36] * PiBot sets mode +v PReDiToR_
[21:36] <AdrianG> god damn
[21:36] <AdrianG> solidd: no, u gotta buy enclosures for extra
[21:36] <AdrianG> its a scam
[21:36] * Guest51720 (milkman@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:36] <mrdragons> mkopack: Sounds like a very personal award
[21:36] <mkopack> My 5 year gift I picked out a watch??? that I've NEVER worn??? nothing else looked even remotely interesting or was stuff I already had
[21:36] <AdrianG> 30+shipping+enclosures
[21:36] <_av500_> mkopack: not the bath robe?
[21:36] <mkopack> LOL
[21:36] <Fragmint> I <3 the pogoplug
[21:37] <Fragmint> I'm actually talking to you folks through IRSSI on one right now
[21:37] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[21:37] * _av500_ bought a seagate dockstar for $25 and never used it
[21:37] <AdrianG> Fragmint: u running linux on it?
[21:37] <des2> Pogo has 5 gig internet service storage included for free.
[21:37] <solidd> AdrianG: like with dropbox? you get 2GB
[21:37] <Fragmint> yep
[21:37] * Cemial (~hardcoreB@ip4da2366d.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Cemial
[21:37] * a5m0 (~Arc@unaffiliated/a5m0) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[21:37] * Arc_ (~Arc@cpe-173-175-202-7.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Arc_
[21:37] <mkopack> I'd rather they just give me 2 months off with pay
[21:37] <Fragmint> I run SABNZBD, Sickbeard, Couchpotato, rTorrent, ZNC, IRSSI, SAMBA, FTP server, etc
[21:37] <des2> TO go with any USB drives you attach to your pogoplug.
[21:38] <solidd> http://db.tt/HjXfmRYk
[21:38] <GabrialDestruir> You can get up to 16GB using a student email....
[21:38] * Guest57677 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:38] <AdrianG> man. anyone who ships international jacks up prices
[21:38] <solidd> the dropbox cli stuff sucks tho
[21:38] <_av500_> box.net just gave a away 50Gig in cloud
[21:38] <_av500_> if you signed up on android
[21:38] <solidd> for how long?
[21:38] <AdrianG> Fragmint: ic
[21:38] <_av500_> so I will upload 50gig of /dev/random
[21:38] <mrdragons> lol
[21:39] <solidd> hah
[21:39] <_av500_> here, deduplicate that
[21:39] <mrdragons> Does it just check your user agent?
[21:39] * piless (~piless@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:39] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[21:39] <_av500_> mrdragons: it was for the android app
[21:39] * Kushykins (Kushan@s9.rdlbnc.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Kushykins
[21:39] <des2> Fragmint Debian or Arch or what distribution ?
[21:39] * Kushykins is now known as Kushan
[21:39] <Fragmint> Arch
[21:39] * PReDiToR (~preditor@cpc3-york1-0-0-cust750.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:39] * PReDiToR_ is now known as PReDiToR
[21:39] <solidd> _av500_: but it's for a month or so right?
[21:39] <_av500_> er, no idea
[21:39] <Fragmint> A surprising amount of things work with it out of the box... wireless cards, USB Sound cards, etc.
[21:39] <_av500_> how useful would that be?
[21:39] <AdrianG> Fragmint: what pogoplug u have? how much ram/etc
[21:40] <Fragmint> the pink
[21:40] <des2> Pink has 128 MB
[21:40] <AdrianG> wbu black?
[21:40] <des2> I have the B01 pink
[21:40] <Fragmint> actually, mines got 256
[21:40] <piless> pink?
[21:40] <AdrianG> man, i could just buy a dell d620 for 100 bux
[21:40] <solidd> _av500_: thats what I mean
[21:40] <AdrianG> and relax
[21:40] <AdrianG> it has 2gb of ram
[21:40] <AdrianG> and a core2duo
[21:40] <mkopack> I need to try the wifi card I pulled out of a dead Lexmark multifunction printer to see if it'll work on the SheevaPlug
[21:40] <mrdragons> I'ma pick up a pogoplug sometime, they sound cool
[21:40] * FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:41] <GabrialDestruir> What's the processor like on a pogo? o.O
[21:41] <Fragmint> you can always use a swap file on any of the HDD's you have hooked up
[21:41] <AdrianG> man, screw pogo
[21:41] * funkster_ (d04e5f32@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[21:41] * PiBot sets mode +v funkster_
[21:41] <AdrianG> im getting a used laptop
[21:41] <Fragmint> 1.2ghz armv5
[21:41] <AdrianG> unless u live in the US, u get shafted
[21:42] <GabrialDestruir> Just kind of like the world got shafted by the UK and Pi
[21:42] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[21:42] * Arc_ (~Arc@cpe-173-175-202-7.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:42] <des2> http://www.pogoplugged.com/
[21:42] * PReDiToR (~preditor@ Quit (Quit: PReDiToR)
[21:42] <AdrianG> GabrialDestruir: why
[21:42] <Fragmint> I was actually going to do that as well but wound up selling all my laptops... the one thing I like about the pogoplug is it uses 7w at full load, typically half that
[21:43] <des2> Processor is similar to RPi
[21:43] * Arc_ (~Arc@cpe-173-175-202-7.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Arc_
[21:43] * Xark_ (32717be5@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:43] <mrdragons> Armv5 is a pretty outdated. :\
[21:43] * FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:43] * PiBot sets mode +v FACEFOX
[21:43] <GabrialDestruir> Gah... wth could be on this laptop that causes it to be worthless in normal mode....
[21:43] <mkopack> des: Yeah, armv5 vs Armv6, but faster CPU and more RAM on the Plug
[21:43] <Fragmint> yeah, the newer ones perform much better
[21:43] <GabrialDestruir> yet seemingly run perfectly fine in safe mode?
[21:43] <_av500_> solidd: the offer expires, i dont see where the storage expires
[21:44] <des2> The pogoplug can pay foritself in low power consumption vs other fileserver implementations.
[21:44] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:44] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[21:44] * fseabn (5ec47459@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[21:44] * PiBot sets mode +v fseabn
[21:44] <des2> The new model B01 pinks are 128MB dual core.
[21:44] <Fragmint> I use it to feed media to my WD Live TV
[21:45] <philh> GabrialDestruir, antivirus?
[21:45] <AdrianG> how much would dell d620 use in standby?
[21:45] <mkopack> dual core huh? Nice
[21:45] <des2> People seek out the older 256 MB models but they are hard to find and more $
[21:45] <mkopack> but 128MB = ouch
[21:45] <GabrialDestruir> The antivirus doesn't misbehave like that on any of my other computers .-.
[21:45] <mkopack> The SheevaPlug has 512MB RAM...
[21:45] <_av500_> mkopack: even 128mb is fine if you just serve a few files
[21:45] <philh> i installed avast on a win7 laptop recently, it caused freezes and all manner of misbehaviour, even attempting to uninstall it
[21:45] <mkopack> true
[21:45] <Fragmint> laptops are probably gonna be 30-50w
[21:45] <mkopack> all depends what your'e doing with it
[21:45] <des2> 128 MB is plenty if you aren't using Xwindows I find.
[21:46] <_av500_> mkopack: there was a time when 32mb was a lot in a server
[21:46] <mkopack> yeah, I remember!
[21:46] <mkopack> lol, I'm 39 yrs old??? I've been through those days
[21:46] <_av500_> mkopack: ha, you are old!
[21:46] <GabrialDestruir> I'm running Vipre, and haven't had issues on any of my computers. Except this damn laptop acts like the whole computer is running a P2 or something
[21:46] <GabrialDestruir> .-.
[21:46] <_av500_> mkopack: ok, I am older :)
[21:47] <mrdragons> mkopack: lol, you're old enough to be my dad.
[21:47] <Fragmint> GabrialDestruir, look for something called rapport in your startup
[21:47] <_av500_> mrdragons: darth vader is your dad
[21:47] <AdrianG> Fragmint: with the LCD screen off?
[21:47] <mkopack> dragons: And don't you forget it little boy! :) LO
[21:47] <mkopack> LOL
[21:47] <GabrialDestruir> It has no abnormal CPU use, no Abnormal Ram Usage, nothing that would make it misbehave, yet after a fresh install it still acts like crap .-.
[21:47] <mkopack> You know the best part about being old(er) ? Being able to afford to buy any hardware you WANT
[21:47] <_av500_> :)
[21:47] <GabrialDestruir> No Rapport
[21:47] <philh> GabrialDestruir, lots of unexplained disk activity?
[21:48] <mkopack> And the best part about being old(er) and still single - nobody gets pissed at you for buying it!
[21:48] <GabrialDestruir> None I can see....
[21:48] <AdrianG> dell d620 uses 2 watts in indle.
[21:48] <AdrianG> two watts
[21:48] <GabrialDestruir> at least not according to the OS
[21:48] * HienoMies (~HienoMies@e435.ip15.netikka.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:48] * PiBot sets mode +v HienoMies
[21:48] <philh> how about according the activity light and the noise?
[21:48] <_av500_> mkopack: no, the best part is to get a lot of hw for free althought you could easily afford it
[21:48] <GabrialDestruir> according to the HDD activity light it's always active
[21:48] <philh> ah
[21:48] <Fragmint> the chipset on the motherboard probably uses a lot more then that
[21:48] <mkopack> Yeah, but if it's a lot of old slow stuff, why bother?
[21:49] <_av500_> its not
[21:49] <mkopack> ah, :)
[21:49] <des2> D620 is a Core 2 Duo 2 GHz. 2 watts idle is excellent.
[21:49] <AdrianG> des2: incredible
[21:49] <philh> GabrialDestruir, try disabling the av, just to see
[21:49] <GabrialDestruir> The only thing I can think of is that Acer replaced a bad HDD with a bad HDD .-.
[21:49] <AdrianG> des2: im assuming thats with the screen off.
[21:49] <des2> Yeah
[21:49] <des2> heh
[21:49] <mkopack> I finally gave up 2 years ago and brought my "spares" / junk pile of old PC parts to a school and told them to have a field day with them??? I thikn they managed to fix 3 old machines and build 2 others with my "bones"
[21:50] <Fragmint> I threw out all my old PC stuff then decided to sell all my spare computers for extra cash
[21:50] <Fragmint> at the end of the week I won't have a computer =/
[21:50] <AdrianG> 0.03kwh per hour
[21:50] <GabrialDestruir> Especially considering how the computer won't even boot up now wtf =\
[21:50] * chronofast (ada79aac@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[21:51] * pitillo (~pitillo@unaffiliated/pitillo) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:51] <AdrianG> is sheevaplug sold in oem config?
[21:51] <GabrialDestruir> I hate laptops -sigh-
[21:51] <AdrianG> or only sold to oems?
[21:51] <des2> Sold to anyone
[21:51] <mkopack> I have one of the original sheevaplug dev kits
[21:51] <philh> GabrialDestruir, not even booting to safe mode now?
[21:52] <mkopack> like ordered it when they first came out
[21:52] * flaushy (~nooon@p5798CBD5.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:52] <AdrianG> god dman they are expensive
[21:52] <GabrialDestruir> It's not even acknowledging the HDD now
[21:52] <philh> ah, oh dear
[21:52] <piofcube> throw spinrite at it
[21:52] <GabrialDestruir> No, BIOs can't see the HD
[21:52] <GabrialDestruir> HDD*
[21:53] <des2> http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-46-sheevaplug-dev-kit.aspx
[21:53] * pitillo (~pitillo@26.Red-88-16-111.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:53] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[21:53] <piofcube> (clutches at straws) not a bad cable?
[21:53] <philh> whip it out and just make sure the connection's not iffy
[21:53] * flaushy (~nooon@p5798D68A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:53] * PiBot sets mode +v flaushy
[21:54] <GabrialDestruir> Gods I hate laptops -.-
[21:54] <AdrianG> not cheap, des
[21:54] <mkopack> des: Yup, that's the one
[21:54] <mkopack> Adrian: well, that's new??? look around online. I bet you can find them cheaper
[21:54] * Arc_ is now known as a5m0
[21:54] * fseabn (5ec47459@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:55] <piless> GabrialDestruir: but... its so convenient
[21:55] <GabrialDestruir> Nope, HDD is nice and secure.
[21:55] <AdrianG> so far used laptops seem cheaper
[21:55] <AdrianG> and 2 watts idle, thats ridiciulously low
[21:55] * a5m0 (~Arc@cpe-173-175-202-7.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Changing host)
[21:55] * a5m0 (~Arc@unaffiliated/a5m0) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:55] * PiBot sets mode +v a5m0
[21:56] <AdrianG> plus i can use it as an actual laptop
[21:56] <Fragmint> 2 watts for the cpu alone
[21:56] <AdrianG> Fragmint: i doubt it
[21:56] <AdrianG> the entire device
[21:57] <AdrianG> System Configuration The Energy Consumption and Declared Noise Emissions data is based on a configuration including an intel? Merom 2.16GHz processor, 1GB of memory, 80GB hard drive, and a CDRW/DVD.
[21:57] <AdrianG> Idle 1.8798 As specified by the EPA Computer spec 4.0 or system is sitting at the main Windows screen.
[21:57] <AdrianG> at the main windows screen lol
[21:57] <AdrianG> so with the lcd on?!
[21:57] <AdrianG> http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/corporate/environ/Lat_D620_ATG.pdf
[21:57] <Fragmint> maybe they misplaced the decimal point?
[21:57] <Fragmint> http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/corporate/environ/Lat_D620_ATG.pdf
[21:57] <mkopack> Ok, I'm out. Catch ya'll later when I get home and am sitting through boring last lecture
[21:57] <AdrianG> maybe
[21:58] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-102-255-161.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[21:58] <Fragmint> whoops, misclicked
[21:58] <Fragmint> it actually uses 1879.8w and functions as a mini space heater and hotplate
[21:58] * Gadgetoid_Air (~gadgetoid@cpc6-nrwh10-2-0-cust61.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadgetoid_Air
[21:58] <AdrianG> lol
[21:58] <AdrianG> i had a d620
[21:58] <AdrianG> long time ago, nice laptops
[22:00] * Spikey (~chatzilla@cpc23-slam6-2-0-cust241.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Spikey
[22:00] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:00] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[22:00] <IT_Sean> >.>
[22:00] <IT_Sean> <.<
[22:00] * area (~area@adr34.clare.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[22:00] <piless> ^. ^
[22:01] * nick (~nick@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:01] * PiBot sets mode +v nick
[22:01] <IT_Sean> O_o
[22:01] <AdrianG> hmm
[22:01] <des2> The D620 LCD uses 5.5 Watts max according to the manual.
[22:01] <AdrianG> exactly
[22:01] <AdrianG> this is weird
[22:01] * nick is now known as Guest44273
[22:01] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[22:01] <AdrianG> i can see 2 watts being real in idle with lcd off and hdds stopped
[22:02] * Guest44273 (~nick@ has left #raspberrypi
[22:02] <Fragmint> doesnt the memory typically use a watt or two by itself?
[22:02] <GabrialDestruir> -twitches-
[22:02] <GabrialDestruir> It's a "recertified" HDD
[22:02] * nmcclo-1 (~nick@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:02] * PiBot sets mode +v nmcclo-1
[22:02] * nmcclo-1 is now known as nmccloud_
[22:03] <AdrianG> Fragmint: dekstop ram yes, idk about mobile versions
[22:03] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has left #raspberrypi
[22:03] * nmccloud_ (~nick@ Quit (Client Quit)
[22:03] <AdrianG> those are EPA certs, i doubt dell woudl try to lie
[22:03] * nmccloud (~nick@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:03] * PiBot sets mode +v nmccloud
[22:03] <AdrianG> maybe the test is somehow gamed?
[22:03] <GabrialDestruir> It's Acer
[22:04] * IT_Sean (~cdi-1fors@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: BRB!)
[22:04] <nmccloud> Can anyone confirm if scotland.proximity.on.ca is offline - it hosts the mirror list for the installer & the yum mirror list
[22:04] <piless> its offline for me
[22:05] <piofcube> http://isitup.org/scotland.proximity.on.ca
[22:05] <Matt> connection refused on port 80, no route to host on 443, packet filtered for ping
[22:05] * FFes (~quassel@53545D49.cm-6-5b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:05] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:05] <Matt> it's listening on 22 tho
[22:05] <piless> downforeveryoneorjustme.com
[22:06] <nmccloud> Thanks, just needed to confirm it wasn't BTInternet choking my traffic again
[22:06] <Matt> they're good at that
[22:06] * Matt gave up using them when C&W finally started offering cable in his area
[22:06] <GabrialDestruir> Resetting the HDD seems to have made it visible again
[22:06] <piofcube> http://isittuesday.co.uk LOL
[22:06] <Matt> that and their 2 hour dialup cap
[22:07] <Fragmint> http://wiki.freebsd.org/TuningPowerConsumption
[22:07] * piless (~piless@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:07] <Fragmint> some good information tharr
[22:07] <nmccloud> All you get in the middle of Derbyshire, that & cows.
[22:07] <GabrialDestruir> and then dead again
[22:07] <Matt> ok, that's great :)
[22:07] <GabrialDestruir> ^_^
[22:07] * piless (~piless@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:07] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[22:07] * IT_Sean (~IT@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:07] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[22:07] <GabrialDestruir> It feels so good to be vindicated
[22:08] * dkeuyof (~dkeuyof__@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:08] * PiBot sets mode +v dkeuyof
[22:08] <piless> no
[22:09] <Matt> nmccloud: I feel for you :)
[22:11] * NIN101 (~NIN@ Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[22:12] <GabrialDestruir> If they send it back and the HDD dies again I might as well just go buy my own .-.
[22:12] * cpbills (~fool@li401-157.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:12] * PiBot sets mode +v cpbills
[22:14] <Matt> my laptop contains a disk I installed
[22:14] <Matt> but that's more cause I was fed up with 160GB in a box I use for 90% of my day to day work
[22:14] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-138-253.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[22:15] <ReggieUK> any update on the state of the ponies?
[22:15] <GabrialDestruir> I have a brand new HDD in a laptop we retired.... but the issue is if I go that route I'm going from 640GB to 320GB.... but I suppose that doesn't matter if the 640 was always crap to begin with, eh?
[22:15] <des2> You mean unicorns ?
[22:15] <ReggieUK> I ASKED FOR A PONY!!
[22:16] <IT_Sean> Beavers?
[22:16] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:16] <AdrianG> http://www.hawkboard.org/
[22:16] * swcdx (roger@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] * PiBot sets mode +v swcdx
[22:16] <IT_Sean> ReggieUK: and you got a snail taped to a pencil.
[22:16] * ratherDashing (64018f6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] * PiBot sets mode +v ratherDashing
[22:16] * nmccloud___ (~nick@host86-172-216-233.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] * PiBot sets mode +v nmccloud___
[22:16] <ReggieUK> :)
[22:17] <Matt> this box has a 500GB seagate momentus xt
[22:17] <Matt> I've been quite happy with it
[22:17] <AdrianG> is rapsberri pi selling cases/acessories
[22:17] <Matt> noticable performance increase from the 160 that was in it
[22:17] <IT_Sean> AdrianG: not yet
[22:17] * dkeuyof (~dkeuyof__@ Quit (Quit: Saliendo)
[22:17] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose I could invest in like a 60GB SSD
[22:17] <normod> AdrianG: you can make a case out of stickers
[22:18] <GabrialDestruir> it's not like the computer needs the storage... it only gets used for FB games anyways -.-
[22:18] <AdrianG> stickers?
[22:18] <des2> How much are hawkboards ?
[22:18] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:18] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[22:18] <AdrianG> lol
[22:18] <AdrianG> Raspberry Pi (momentarily) more popular than Lady Gaga?
[22:18] * nmccloud (~nick@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:18] * nmccloud___ is now known as nmccloud
[22:19] <_av500_> hawkboards are useless
[22:19] <AdrianG> they are
[22:19] <AdrianG> i guess rapsberry would be better than d620
[22:19] <AdrianG> but i cant buy them
[22:22] * ratherDashing (64018f6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[22:22] <GabrialDestruir> Pi will be awesome... assuming of course....
[22:22] <GabrialDestruir> they actually arrive
[22:23] * _av500_ will use r-pis to generate lottery numbers, I already bought 1million tickets
[22:24] <piless> don't kid yourself. they will never arrive
[22:24] <HienoMies> xD
[22:24] * jprvita is now known as jprvita|afk
[22:24] <swcdx> has anyone tried xbmc on raspberryPI
[22:24] <Matt> yes
[22:24] <piless> swcdx: no
[22:24] <des2> Yeah the guy who did the video
[22:24] <_av500_> thats what they want us to believe
[22:24] <swcdx> besides thet video guy
[22:25] <Matt> swcdx: do you not read the main site? :)
[22:25] <swcdx> but in there in the chan
[22:25] <Matt> "The guys at OpenELEC, an embedded OS built specifically to run XBMC, have announced their first ARM port and with it, support for Raspberry Pi. "
[22:25] <piless> swcdx: xbmc is for xboxes. the pi is not an xbox
[22:25] <ReggieUK> I would say, at a guess, that the xbmc team have tried xbmc on a pi
[22:25] <HienoMies> xbmc? nevah!
[22:26] <swcdx> has anyone tried openELEC? :D
[22:26] <Fragmint> I wonder if any of the XBMC is original at this point
[22:26] * efwnfweuofwehuif (5ec4dca2@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[22:26] * PiBot sets mode +v efwnfweuofwehuif
[22:26] <ReggieUK> it's the concept that's original
[22:26] <Fragmint> but its not on the xbox!
[22:26] <des2> Yeah the guy who made the video
[22:26] * Maccer (~Maccer@ Quit (Excess Flood)
[22:26] <ReggieUK> usurping retail goods to show media
[22:27] <GabrialDestruir> XBMC has been ported beyond the xbox... it's no longer just an "Xbox Thing"
[22:27] <piless> Fragmint: the xbmc project doesn't actually support the old xbox anymore
[22:27] <Fragmint> IIRC theres still someone porting features over to the original Xbox version
[22:27] <efwnfweuofwehuif> which is a joke. They should just change the name. Just like boxee did
[22:28] <Fragmint> what kills me is that when I see XBMC on the RP I just want something like the CrystalHD that I can hook up and get support for most HD video formats
[22:28] <GabrialDestruir> Bah, why change the name?
[22:28] <Fragmint> but that kills the whole point of the RP and would at least triple the price
[22:28] <ReggieUK> but most of us probably couldn't give a crap about xbmc on the pi :D
[22:28] <efwnfweuofwehuif> GabrialDestruir: BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SUPPORT XBOXES
[22:29] <Matt> xbmc doesn't actually run on an original xbox anymore
[22:29] <GabrialDestruir> I give a crap about XBMC .-.
[22:29] <ReggieUK> so what, why throw away a well known brand name?
[22:29] <GabrialDestruir> and I give a crap about XBMC on the Pi
[22:29] <GabrialDestruir> >.>
[22:29] <efwnfweuofwehuif> ReggieUK: Boxee did that, and they did alright
[22:29] * genbattle (~quassel@203-114-137-9.wir.sta.inspire.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] * PiBot sets mode +v genbattle
[22:30] <GabrialDestruir> Indeed.... XBMC is a popular name, so, why should they give that up?
[22:30] <normod> like when Intel threw away the Pentium brand name
[22:30] <efwnfweuofwehuif> GabrialDestruir: It's a stupid name. Nobody uses acronyms for project names anymore. It isn't the 60's
[22:30] * Maccer (~Maccer@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:30] * PiBot sets mode +v Maccer
[22:31] <Fragmint> why doesnt anyone use haikus?
[22:31] * genbattle (~quassel@203-114-137-9.wir.sta.inspire.net.nz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:31] * genbattle (~quassel@203-114-137-9.wir.sta.inspire.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:31] * PiBot sets mode +v genbattle
[22:31] * Gadgetoid_Air (~gadgetoid@cpc6-nrwh10-2-0-cust61.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Gadgetoid_Air)
[22:32] * Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Cromulent
[22:32] <efwnfweuofwehuif> there's also plex
[22:32] <markus_> Fragmint: chat like haiku poem?
[22:33] <Fragmint> or name their products in the form of a haiku
[22:33] <GabrialDestruir> Plenty of people still use Acronyms for projects, I'm sure.
[22:35] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:36] <piless> GabrialDestruir: yeah but they're usually neckbeards
[22:36] * nemo (nemo@c-68-50-78-21.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:36] * PiBot sets mode +v nemo
[22:36] <nemo> Hey guys. I have a minor question while waiting for my Pi.
[22:36] <HienoMies> yes?
[22:36] <IT_Sean> whats that?
[22:36] <nemo> Does anyone have any information on how the GPIO stuff works? like, what interfaces does the driver expose, how to read/write.
[22:36] <piless> nemo: the answer is no
[22:37] <nemo> figured I could play around w/ a fake version locally while waiting
[22:37] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-ifhahxgmkeagnuvq) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:37] <nemo> just in planning-like
[22:37] <HienoMies> posed a good question there my mate
[22:37] <efwnfweuofwehuif> no
[22:38] * IT_Sean hasn't the foggiest
[22:38] <HienoMies> dont rush ma man
[22:38] <nemo> does anyone here *have* a pi? :)
[22:39] <piless> yes
[22:39] <piless> I do
[22:39] <HienoMies> Pi is yours before the summer!
[22:39] * Fragmint throws on a pot of coffee
[22:39] <Tobias> piless: seems legit
[22:39] <HienoMies> 2013
[22:39] <nemo> piless: so. do you see anything like a /dev/gpio + some readme somewhere? :)
[22:39] <GabrialDestruir> I got my Pi last month.
[22:39] <GabrialDestruir> Totally
[22:39] <nemo> oh
[22:39] <nemo> :(
[22:39] <_av500_> nemo: sysfs most likely
[22:39] * qptain_Nemo (~qN@ has left #raspberrypi
[22:40] <nemo> _av500_: I was wondering if it'd be under /proc or /dev...
[22:40] <piless> no
[22:40] <HienoMies> i??
[22:40] <_av500_> /sys
[22:40] <HienoMies> winnt
[22:40] <nemo> m'k
[22:40] <_av500_> /dev maybe too, but sysfs allows to easily use echo 1 > sys/....
[22:40] <nemo> _av500_: don't suppose you know more, like if there's any particular bitmasks you'd write to the device, or if it exposes a set of devices etc
[22:40] <_av500_> its a standard linux API
[22:41] <_av500_> google for sysfs gpio and you shall receive
[22:41] <piless> the answer is no
[22:41] <nemo> _av500_: oh. that's what it is using? this gpio-sysfs thingy? ok.
[22:41] <_av500_> unless BCM used something totally non.standard
[22:41] <piless> my pi says no
[22:41] <_av500_> which is posible
[22:41] <nemo> ah. this seems well documented.
[22:41] <nemo> cool
[22:42] * efwnfweuofwehuif (5ec4dca2@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:42] <_av500_> yes, sysfs gpio is pretty standard
[22:42] <_av500_> as to whether the pi kernel implements it, no idea
[22:42] <_av500_> there should be source code maybe
[22:42] <piless> the pi kernel doesn't
[22:42] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc1-hart9-2-0-cust121.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[22:43] <GabrialDestruir> So by the sounds of it.... despite having GPIO hardware.... it has no GPIO software?
[22:43] <GabrialDestruir> o.O
[22:43] <GabrialDestruir> That makes sense... yo.
[22:43] <IT_Sean> write your own
[22:43] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:43] * PiBot sets mode +v skrock
[22:44] <HienoMies> or wait until soneone else does
[22:44] <des2> Wait until one of the first 10,000 recipients writes one
[22:44] <_av500_> it's them kids that are going to write it
[22:44] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:44] <HienoMies> sure is
[22:44] <_av500_> in their schools
[22:44] * lee (~lee@loathe.ms) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:44] * PiBot sets mode +v lee
[22:45] <des2> It's all a scam to get child software labor for free
[22:45] <HienoMies> shhh!
[22:45] <GabrialDestruir> It seems like that'd be apart of the OS, and would be up to the OS programmers to do it
[22:45] <HienoMies> seems legit to me
[22:45] <_av500_> GabrialDestruir: the what?
[22:45] <des2> S'ok the kids can't read this they don't have PIs yet.
[22:45] <nemo> GabrialDestruir: what do you mean? if it has this gpio-sysfs, it has gpio software
[22:45] <nemo> GabrialDestruir: what more do you need than an exposed filesystem entry?
[22:45] <piless> my pi has a locked bootloader
[22:46] <_av500_> nemo: yes, but so far its not exposed
[22:46] <GabrialDestruir> I thought piless said it wasn't there?
[22:46] <_av500_> aye
[22:46] <HienoMies> ait
[22:46] <piless> I did!
[22:46] <nemo> :-/
[22:46] <_av500_> and since there is no docs, nobody can add it atm :)
[22:46] <nemo> _av500_: wait. you said there's no source code for the kernel?
[22:46] <des2> piless is a contrarian.
[22:47] <nemo> _av500_: how is that possible?
[22:47] <HienoMies> kids wiil figure it out
[22:47] <_av500_> there is
[22:47] <_av500_> nemo: there is
[22:47] <_av500_> but the gpio part seems missing
[22:47] <nemo> oh
[22:47] <nemo> I misread some of piless' interjections. n/m
[22:47] <HienoMies> yeah
[22:47] <piless> slave labour is key
[22:47] <nemo> he's making things confusing to read :-/
[22:47] <HienoMies> like candy, but without the candy
[22:48] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:48] * PiBot sets mode +v jmontleon
[22:49] * GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:50] <nemo> _av500_: huh. somehow I had the mistaken impression that the raspberry pi foundation had assembled a custom kernel and drivers to go along with all the pi hardware
[22:50] <nemo> oh well...
[22:50] * jmontleon (~jason@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:51] <swcdx> i noticed in some pictures there is a orange audio output. Is this SPFID?
[22:51] <_av500_> nemo: custom is unquantified
[22:51] <mPReDiToR> Orange is old board
[22:51] <piless> swcdx: don't trust the photos... they lie
[22:51] <IT_Sean> the cake is a lie
[22:52] <swcdx> does anyone have one in this chan?
[22:52] <nemo> _av500_: more the "all the hardware is going to be exposed and working when you flash the SD card"
[22:52] <mPReDiToR> No, it isn't. It's in the basement with a candle burning.
[22:52] <_av500_> hmm, SPF-ID, email over audio lines
[22:52] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:52] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
[22:52] <piless> yes
[22:52] <_av500_> nemo: I have no idea
[22:52] <_av500_> nemo: I am *not* the foundation
[22:52] <nemo> ah
[22:52] <nemo> 17:45 <+_av500_> nemo: yes, but so far its not exposed
[22:52] <nemo> that sounded informed :)
[22:52] <_av500_> i just repeat stuff like a parrot
[22:52] <_av500_> cookie?
[22:53] <piless> don't trust _av500_
[22:53] <IT_Sean> _av500_ fancy a cracker?
[22:53] <_av500_> yummy
[22:53] <HienoMies> SPFID would be cool for kids of africa
[22:54] <swcdx> they dreamm too you know
[22:54] * IT_Sean (~IT@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[22:55] <HienoMies> poor kids
[22:55] <_av500_> nemo: linux kernel support for an SoC can vary wildly
[22:55] <HienoMies> needs Pi!
[22:55] <_av500_> from getting it to print "hello" on the serial to being fully supported for all HW
[22:55] * klm[_] (milkman@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:55] * klm[_] (milkman@ Quit (Changing host)
[22:55] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:55] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[22:55] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[22:55] <_av500_> mot of them are somewhere in the "middle"
[22:56] <_av500_> most
[22:56] <HienoMies> kids will dump the board if no proper serial io
[22:56] <HienoMies> sure will!
[22:57] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:57] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[22:57] <HienoMies> exposed one
[22:57] <_av500_> kids in africa will dump it coz it has no hand crank
[22:57] <ReggieUK> awesome, cheap pi all round
[22:57] * ReggieUK is going to refrain from kids in africa jokes
[22:57] <nemo> _av500_: send the kids a solar powered USB charger
[22:57] <nemo> _av500_: along with their pi
[22:57] <HienoMies> ait
[22:57] <_av500_> and a 40" flat screen
[22:58] <nemo> _av500_: and a USB keyboard
[22:58] <_av500_> and some more chargers
[22:58] <_av500_> and even more chargers
[22:58] <nemo> _av500_: they just need a 5" resistive screen :)
[22:58] <piless> who's willing to bet that as the first 10000 are due to be sent out that the foundation realise that the factory replaced the socs with cheese
[22:58] <_av500_> SystemOnCheese
[22:59] <_av500_> so, cheese PCBs
[22:59] <HienoMies> much possible
[22:59] <des2> kids in africa will melt down the boards for the gold.
[22:59] <piless> not good cheese either
[22:59] <swcdx> jesus you guys calm down with the kids in africa
[22:59] <HienoMies> or they send plastic PCB models instead
[22:59] <_av500_> des2: h264 decoder license itself is worth 25??
[23:00] <piless> swcdx: first world problems
[23:00] <nemo> des2: yes, the 1/10,000th of an incn of gold plating :-p
[23:00] <nemo> inch
[23:00] <piless> the decoder licenses are non-transferable fyi
[23:00] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[23:01] * whyz (~e@h145n7-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Quit: bbl)
[23:01] <_av500_> i wonder how that sits with the supreme court!
[23:01] * _av500_ will fight for his 25??
[23:01] <piless> we aren't in America
[23:01] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:01] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[23:01] <_av500_> Old Bailey then
[23:02] <_av500_> or the star chamber
[23:03] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[23:03] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:03] * PiBot sets mode +v skrock
[23:03] <_av500_> anyway, night all
[23:03] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:03] * PiBot sets mode +v UnderSampled|tab
[23:05] <des2> night
[23:05] * UnderSampled|tab (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:05] * whyz (~e@h145n7-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:05] * PiBot sets mode +v whyz
[23:08] <piless> selling my rad
[23:08] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:12] * Gadgetoid_Air (~gadgetoid@cpc6-nrwh10-2-0-cust61.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadgetoid_Air
[23:12] <GabrialDestruir> Is there any actual gold on it? Or just gold looking pieces? >.>
[23:13] <HienoMies> sure is!
[23:13] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[23:13] * ole9 (~ole@54b.pl) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[23:14] * FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:14] <GabrialDestruir> I imagine if there was any real gold... the cost would sky rocket...... lol
[23:14] <BCMM> GabrialDestruir: most likely there is gold plating
[23:14] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc35-belf9-2-0-cust731.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:14] <_av500_> not enought for a tooth dilling
[23:14] <BCMM> GabrialDestruir: gold plating is extremely thin and isn't actually expensive
[23:14] <GabrialDestruir> Ah, okay then.
[23:14] * FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:14] * PiBot sets mode +v FACEFOX
[23:14] <BCMM> all that gold-plated audiophile rubbish is just overpriced
[23:15] <BCMM> i've seen shops that sell the same connector for the same price in steel and gold-plated steel
[23:16] * sven1994 (~svens@p4FC2FAFC.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:16] * sven1994 (~svens@p4FC2FAFC.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:16] * PiBot sets mode +v sven1994
[23:17] <mPReDiToR> You're better off ripping the catalytic converters off cars for their platinum.
[23:17] <BCMM> GabrialDestruir: yeah, there's also the thing were gold isn't *that* expensive
[23:19] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose. lol
[23:20] * piless (~piless@ Quit (Quit: bah)
[23:20] <GabrialDestruir> Does gold plated stereo stuff actually have an sort of audio improvement? o.O
[23:20] <GabrialDestruir> any*
[23:20] * piless (5ec46853@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[23:20] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[23:20] * nmccloud (~nick@host86-172-216-233.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: nmccloud)
[23:21] * Christian10 (~christian@p4FF6ABF9.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[23:21] * passstab (~v@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:21] * PiBot sets mode +v KaiNeR
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[23:25] <GabrialDestruir> I think I should start wearing a fez
[23:25] * dormant (~dormant@d54C1A06E.access.telenet.be) Quit (Quit: dormant)
[23:26] * Spikey (~chatzilla@cpc23-slam6-2-0-cust241.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[23:29] <piless> NO
[23:29] <GabrialDestruir> Yes!
[23:29] <piless> no fezzes for GabrialDestruir
[23:29] <GabrialDestruir> Fez's are cool
[23:29] * PReDiToR (~PReDiToR@cpc3-york1-0-0-cust750.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:29] * PiBot sets mode +v PReDiToR
[23:29] <BCMM> GabrialDestruir: on analogue equipment, slightly
[23:29] <GabrialDestruir> fezzes?
[23:29] <GabrialDestruir> w/e
[23:29] <GabrialDestruir> lol
[23:30] <BCMM> GabrialDestruir: now, as for gold-plated "special A/V USB cables"...
[23:30] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:30] * PReDiToR (~PReDiToR@cpc3-york1-0-0-cust750.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Changing host)
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[23:30] * PiBot sets mode +v PReDiToR
[23:32] <nemo> BCMM: it might help a little on digital too, if the connection is a bit better. I have a crappy HDMI cable that is incredibly finicky
[23:32] <nemo> BCMM: I have to coil it just right and can't pull the device too far away from the TV
[23:32] <BCMM> sure, but it's either needed or not
[23:32] <BCMM> also, that doesn't sound like a problem with the contacts
[23:32] <nemo> I mean if noise is kept below a critical threshold
[23:32] <nemo> BCMM: yeah. unlikely to be contacts. but if the contacts were better it might help
[23:33] <nemo> BCMM: could be the overall crappiness is many components :)
[23:33] <GabrialDestruir> If it's issues with the wire....
[23:33] <BCMM> sounds like crappy shielding
[23:33] <nemo> BCMM: sure
[23:33] <GabrialDestruir> as it sounds it is.... better contracts wouldn't fix it
[23:33] <nemo> BCMM: I was just thinking that if it is having a hard time making out a signal over noise, every bit helps
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[23:47] <strigel> dumb question for the night: is there any way the rpi can do any GPU computing?
[23:48] <strigel> like cuda or somesuch
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[23:48] * PiBot sets mode +v RITRedbeard
[23:48] <mkopack> stigel: If you're looking for something like OpenCL - no??? But there ARe supposedly some ways you can make use of the standard OpenGL ES shaders to do some things
[23:48] <strigel> ok, good answer, thanks
[23:49] <mkopack> I asked about this back in the fall and they said it would be a LONG time before they would even consider trying to support any sort of generic API, and OpenCL was out of the question
[23:49] <strigel> ok
[23:49] <strigel> so what kind of things can shaders do as a co-processor
[23:49] <mkopack> the problem is to build it requires access to information that only the RPI Foundation folks have access to due to the Broadcom licenses
[23:49] <strigel> fpu maths?
[23:49] <mkopack> No idea??? Never really played with them
[23:50] <mkopack> but, yeah, that's probably a good guess
[23:50] <strigel> ok, right, and broadcom are not super keen to disseminate proprietary hardware data, fair play
[23:50] <mkopack> right
[23:50] <piless> it would have been really nice if there was a truly open soc
[23:50] <mkopack> it's unfortunate too, because there's a a lot of power locked up in that GPU that would be awesome to be able to unleash for more general purpose computing tasks
[23:51] <strigel> anyway, there is hope, because that shader pipeline must be packing some juice
[23:51] <piless> I think the TI soc that google used for their latest nexus was relatively open
[23:51] <strigel> agreed, hence my question
[23:51] <ReggieUK> the only way it'll get done outside broadcom will be if people club together and reverse engineer it
[23:51] * funkster_ (d04e5f32@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:51] <ReggieUK> possibly by looking at other targets that use the same chip
[23:51] <strigel> ReggieUK: yes, a massive task though
[23:51] <mkopack> I guess we'll just have to wait and see??? Maybe somebody can come up with some sort of easy API to interface with the OpenGL shader stuff to make it easy to use for more general purpose stuff
[23:51] <ReggieUK> obviously I'm not talking about hacking their bootloader blob
[23:51] <piless> GET TO IT HACKERS!
[23:51] * strigel not fond of massive tasks
[23:51] <PReDiToR> They will
[23:52] <AdrianG> haxers
[23:52] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:52] <ReggieUK> but getting to stuff that's in there and undocumented will just take time and energy
[23:52] <piless> If you reverse engineer the blogs by tuesday you can have a biscuit
[23:52] <piless> *blobs
[23:52] <strigel> 2013 might be more realistic
[23:52] <mkopack> Thank GOD tonight is the last lecture for one of my classes.
[23:52] <AdrianG> I have reverse engineered the blogs.
[23:52] <strigel> for that you only get a biscuit crumb
[23:52] <PReDiToR> At $25 You can guarantee that this piece of Pi will be sliced so many ways that they might as well have done a CT scan on it.
[23:52] <AdrianG> pls fedex the buiscuit.
[23:52] <des2> There's a blob blog ?
[23:53] <AdrianG> wut
[23:53] <strigel> PReDiToR: that is the truth, and the fun part
[23:53] <piless> des2: If there isn't, there should be
[23:53] <AdrianG> a CT scan isnt going to be very useful
[23:53] <des2> They're already Xraying everyone apparently.
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[23:53] * PiBot sets mode +v Spikey_
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[23:53] <piless> Just bring your pi through an american airport and ask for a copy of the scan
[23:53] * Spikey_ is now known as Spikey
[23:54] <PReDiToR> I'd be surprised if the factory tried that one again, after all it must have cost them LOADS to rework 10K boards. Someone will have had a high-jump for that.
[23:54] <strigel> there is a project for canon DSLRs (Magic Lantern) where the devs have recently opened up a ceti-like search for behaviour when poking the registers of the proprietary DIGIC chip
[23:54] <strigel> ...there are lots of registers
[23:55] <des2> Yeah some of the DSLRs have been hacked into b eing different models.
[23:55] <strigel> But I can envisage some way where the mortals can contribute to the haxors efforts here too
[23:55] <piless> there's also chdk for canons
[23:55] * PReDiToR loves CHDK
[23:55] <piless> I so wish there was a chdk equivilent for nikons...
[23:55] <strigel> piless: the chdk supported Canon's use the same DIGICs as the DSLRS
[23:55] <piless> my nikon d40 is so sad without autobracketing
[23:56] <strigel> so the register pokery works equally well for both compacts and DSLRS in some cases
[23:56] * Lewmar (~Lewmar@gateway/tor-sasl/lewmar) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[23:56] <mkopack> Pred: Not to mention the double air freight shipping costs!
[23:56] <strigel> piless: man are you missing magic lantern
[23:56] <strigel> it is the absolute dogs nuts
[23:56] <des2> Tripple airfreight.
[23:56] <piless> strigel: for nikon?
[23:56] <PReDiToR> mkopack - I hope it was at their expense, not the RPF's.
[23:56] <mkopack> Oh, I'm SURE it was at the factory'
[23:56] <des2> To UK back to china then to UK again
[23:57] <mkopack> 's
[23:57] <strigel> piless: nah, sorry to get your hopes up
[23:57] <mkopack> Des: that's only 2 trips
[23:57] <piless> strigel: :(
[23:57] <strigel> i mean it would be great if the Nikon croud could have that stuff, with the cameras being superior and all (I mean that)
[23:57] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-139-168-117-110.lns7.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[23:57] <mkopack> And who knows how many more boards they had started building after the initial 10,000 that also had to get changed...
[23:57] <strigel> But I bought into Canon, and glad I did
[23:57] <PReDiToR> [22:56] <+des2> (1)To UK (2)back to china then (3)to UK again
[23:57] <piless> strigel: nikon has a much better interface
[23:57] <nemo> strigel: WRT gpu, have you seen the pretty amazing stuff that people have managed to offload onto the GPU in webgl?
[23:58] <strigel> nemo: No! will be sure to check that out though
[23:58] <nemo> strigel: no WebCL yet, but that hasn't slowed anyone down
[23:58] <nemo> strigel: http://codeflow.org/entries/2011/nov/10/webgl-gpu-landscaping-and-erosion/ for example
[23:58] <nemo> strigel: and tons and tons of fractal generators
[23:58] <strigel> my Geforce 9600 GT has lain idle like the last chicken at the super market since my kids stole my life
[23:59] <nemo> hah
[23:59] <piless> strigel: last chicken what?
[23:59] <strigel> piless: don't you like my metaphor?

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