#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-03-24

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <flaushy> i cant change it, so we ll see
[0:01] <zgreg> I got another strange mail by RS
[0:01] <zgreg> apparently, they're only starting to do some testing against regulations for electronic devices now
[0:01] <zgreg> that's pretty late, to say the least...
[0:01] <asm> oh crap, my ship date is april 2
[0:03] <zgreg> I lol'ed at "I know they're amateurs, but do they have to keep proving it?"
[0:03] <flaushy> well
[0:03] <flaushy> i think they do ok
[0:04] <flaushy> if i consider how many projects stayed vaporware, they do just fine :)
[0:05] <zgreg> that's right, but the hype the foundation created themselves, and the way they like to talk in public ("everything is under control") made for some big expectations
[0:05] <flaushy> sure
[0:06] <flaushy> but well... duke nukem forever *cough*
[0:06] <flaushy> hurd *cough*
[0:06] <zgreg> I think it was a mistake to make those fancy xbmc and quake 3 demos
[0:06] <flaushy> well imho they are behind the point of no return
[0:07] <philh> i've always been a little pessimistic and hesitant about this kind of thing, deciding not to bother ordering until at least the first units had shipped, but it's going worse than i'd initially imagined...
[0:07] <flaushy> and in 6 months i wont care :)
[0:07] <zgreg> philh: same
[0:07] <flaushy> i am still glad they didnt do preorders on their own
[0:07] <flaushy> so i still have my money
[0:07] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:07] <philh> zgreg, indeed, those raised expectations of the hardware to the point where it wouldn't only be beardy nerds preordering
[0:08] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-nlswwmlkfgcrojeq) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[0:08] <piofcube> what's wrong with beards? LOL
[0:08] <zgreg> hey! I don't have a beard...
[0:08] <philh> piofcube, did i say there was anything wrong with us?
[0:08] <piofcube> :-)
[0:09] <zgreg> you don't need a beard to be a nerd
[0:09] <philh> zgreg, then you must grow one immediately, of else be shunned
[0:09] <flaushy> i kinda hoped to have the device when writing my thesis :(
[0:09] <philh> or*
[0:09] <philh> the closer you can look to RMS, the better
[0:09] <flaushy> you mean eating stuff from your foot on public talks?
[0:10] <zgreg> well, anyway, countless peope that just want a cheap media player ordered the pi
[0:10] <philh> yup
[0:10] <flaushy> and nothing wrong with that
[0:10] <zgreg> annd as soon as the first units ship, they'll bitch and moan that this and that won't work on the forums, etc.
[0:10] <zgreg> this is not good at this early state
[0:10] <philh> so i guess i can grab one from ebay when they decide it's too much like hard work
[0:10] <mchou> zgreg: haha
[0:10] <flaushy> it will work out :)
[0:10] <flaushy> cheap devices on ebay \o/
[0:10] <mchou> zgreg: or crash, if they get lucky
[0:11] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.208.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D
[0:11] * RichiH (~richih@freenode/staff/richih) Quit (Ping timeout: 608 seconds)
[0:11] <piofcube> I would have been happy if they said "First 10K of pis go to those that had a web account since Feb 1st 2012" :-)
[0:11] <zgreg> I also expect many people disappointed by the general performance of the board
[0:11] <mchou> zgreg: nothing more annoying than crashing 5-10 minutes into a movie
[0:11] * rexbinary (~rexbinary@fedora/rexbinary) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:11] <philh> should have offered them based on slashdot number
[0:12] <flaushy> they should send some to projects
[0:12] <flaushy> that would be neat :)
[0:12] <mchou> zgreg: someththing that half-works is more annoying than something that doesn't work at all
[0:12] <zgreg> mchou: yeah :)
[0:13] * RRRRube (~RRRRube@94-30-69-14.xdsl.murphx.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[0:13] <zgreg> what rasperry pi needs at the moment is hackers and nerds that figure out how to get stuff working, not ignorants that just want a media player or whatever
[0:13] <piofcube> maybe have a large number of alpha or beta testers... the first 10k batch.. But no doubt people would complain about that also :-S
[0:14] <zgreg> and the hype just shifted the interest in raspberr pi quite a bit to the latter group of people
[0:14] <mchou> zgreg: what do you mean, the stuff that is supposed to work works :)
[0:14] <flaushy> quite seriously i think many nerds and hackers created that hype
[0:15] <mchou> flaushy: what?
[0:15] <zgreg> how so?
[0:15] <flaushy> so i guess we are complaining about our ability to market the rpi to others as well
[0:15] <zgreg> the foundation made those demos that basicay created the hype
[0:15] <zgreg> *basically
[0:15] <mchou> flaushy: it's virtually the same HW that Roku uses (minus some codec licensing)
[0:15] <mchou> flaushy: so I don't see that's hype....
[0:16] <mchou> flaushy: although if xbmc crashing during demo deosn't give you paue... :)
[0:16] <mchou> pause*
[0:17] <flaushy> mchou: at least i pushed the rpi and talked to alot of ppl about it
[0:17] <mchou> I don't know what will
[0:17] <flaushy> and i dont see any problems that it gets too much attention
[0:17] <zgreg> I didn't "push" it personally
[0:18] <mchou> flaushy: hey man, so your friends are gonna blame you for not doing your research...
[0:18] <flaushy> well i talked to many mates about the possibilitys :)
[0:18] <flaushy> mchou: i can live with that, never said it is a a great media device ^^
[0:18] <mchou> flaushy: I can understand how that might make you a bit anxious :)
[0:18] <zgreg> actually, the raspberry pi is somewhat limited for media playback, due to the codec licensing issues
[0:19] <mchou> zgreg: I think you did pish it....
[0:19] <zgreg> there is no support for VC-1 and MPEG-2
[0:19] <hotwings> zgreg - people who want to use an rpi for media purposes are not ignorant
[0:19] <_av500_> vc-1 is cheap
[0:19] <mchou> zgreg: iirc you were one of the dudes that arguesd with me about mpeg licensing
[0:19] <_av500_> mpeg2 is not
[0:19] <_av500_> mpeg2 is like 2.5$
[0:19] <philh> hotwings, the ignorant ones are
[0:20] <flaushy> hehe :) i want my pi, test my stuff then :)
[0:20] <flaushy> and i know i will like it from my estimates
[0:20] <hotwings> philh - weak attempt at being funny dude
[0:20] <philh> hotwings, i imagine he's just talking about those who haven't got a single solitary clue how they'll set up the device when they receive it
[0:20] <zgreg> yes, what philh says
[0:20] <philh> hotwings, not an attempt at being funny
[0:20] <philh> and "dude", really?
[0:20] <mchou> set up the device?
[0:21] <zgreg> those that bought the pi "because it's a cool media player"
[0:21] <mchou> how hard can it be? it's documented all over the net
[0:21] <zgreg> there are LOTS of people like that
[0:21] <hotwings> i suspect a whole ton of people wont have a single solitary clue how to set up the device when they receive it... has nothing to do with what they bought one for
[0:21] <philh> mchou, ask a mac user how hard it could be
[0:21] <_av500_> the same happens with beagle and panda too
[0:21] <des2> I do think the first 10,000 should have gone to hardware and software developers.
[0:21] <_av500_> people buy it and are lost
[0:21] <mchou> it's not like you need to be a leet hacker to get rpi running
[0:22] <zgreg> des2: yes, or at least a notable fraction of these. 1000-2000 or so.
[0:22] <_av500_> most people fail to dd an sdcard under windows
[0:22] <mchou> considering most of the hard work has been done already
[0:22] <hotwings> zgreg - the rpi may be a "cool media player" to some extent. its not a crime
[0:22] <zgreg> des2: they coud have set up some kind of developer program, where you need to register with a formal application, similar to GSoC
[0:22] <philh> hotwings, you seem upset, are you a little non-technical and just interested in a cool mediaplayer yourself?
[0:22] <hotwings> and how easily you forget the people who created the thing went out of their way to highlight how it can be used as one...
[0:22] <philh> not that there's anything wrong with that, you understand
[0:23] <mchou> _av500_: you can use something like rawrite.exe
[0:23] <flaushy> are there numbers out about how many orders were placed?
[0:23] <_av500_> mchou: *i* know that
[0:23] <mchou> _av500_: not rocket science
[0:23] <_av500_> again, dont tell me
[0:23] <zgreg> hotwings: the point is, currently the pi will not work as just a media player. everything is still very immature.
[0:23] <philh> close enough to rocket science for a lot of users, believe me
[0:23] <_av500_> tell people that fail for 2 weeks to do that
[0:23] <des2> flaushy it's believed to be over 100,000.
[0:23] <hotwings> philh - upset? no, im not.
[0:23] <mchou> _av500_: people who don't know that can easily find out how on the net
[0:23] <zgreg> hotwings: what the raspberry pi needs is developers, not mere users
[0:23] <philh> hotwings, excellent
[0:24] <_av500_> mchou: well, my experience shows, they struggle
[0:24] <flaushy> des2: it is easily byond 100k, i heard there were in some territories over 10k
[0:24] <hotwings> zgreg - i disagree. rpi needs everyone it can get. developers and end-users both included
[0:24] * _av500_ could be rich by selling "preinstalled" sdcards for beagle or panda
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[0:24] <philh> zgreg, mere users are a problem, tolerant, determined and somewhat technical users are testers, and those are just as vital as developers
[0:24] <mchou> _av500_: people who don't know how to google just get left behing by evolution
[0:24] <mchou> behind*
[0:25] <_av500_> yes, but they still annoy me on irc :)
[0:25] <_av500_> they do not die quielty :)
[0:25] <des2> People who haven't evolved with an ethernet jack in the head will be left behind.
[0:25] <hotwings> philh - wrong.. anyone who uses an rpi is a tester. their level of technical expertise is irrelevant
[0:25] <philh> _av500_, people seem to be managing to flog them on ebay for a tenner a time
[0:25] <mchou> philh: a mac user would probably know more than a clueless windows user, considering mac s derived from BSD
[0:25] <philh> mchou, ROFL...
[0:25] <shirro> people who don't know how too google are busy procreating
[0:25] <mchou> philh: why is that so funny?
[0:26] <mchou> philh: it's the truth
[0:26] <philh> macs are computers for technophobes
[0:26] <flaushy> oh well i just wait and see
[0:26] <mchou> philh: no they aren't
[0:26] <mchou> philh: go ask all the employees at google
[0:26] <philh> mchou, yes, they first and foremost are
[0:26] <mchou> philh: they all virtually have macbooks
[0:26] <shirro> macs are computers for people who have tried everything else and given up. find me a quality laptop without a windows tax
[0:27] <zgreg> I don't think you can generalise that much
[0:27] <philh> i'm not telling you that competent unix users can't do a lot with a mac
[0:27] <mchou> shirro: I don't know where you are coming up with that crap
[0:27] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Done)
[0:27] <philh> but the vast majority of apple users buy it because it's easy and/or stylish
[0:27] <mchou> I'm not a mac fanboi but even I reconized why people are drawn to macs
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[0:28] <mchou> and it has no correlation with technical or not
[0:28] <hotwings> ive seen a lot of mac users that look at windows and have no clue how to use it.. so apparently using a mac doesn't exactly make you more inclined to pick up using computers in general..
[0:28] <shirro> i bought mine because I couldn't get a BTO intel laptop anymore and the Mac could run bash, vim, ssh and run longer on bettery
[0:28] <philh> most mac users i encounter would be pretty clueless with something like writing a disk image to an SD card from a console
[0:28] <shirro> philh: most windows users live in trailer parks. not all
[0:29] <_av500_> most windows users *are* most users
[0:29] <philh> shirro, understand that i don't associate with many technical mac users, these are likely to be people asking for support in irc channels, the mac users are the most clueless, oddly followed by ubuntu users half the time
[0:30] <hotwings> using a mac doesnt make you smart in any way. it just means you spent your money on a less popular attempt at idiot-proofing a pc
[0:30] <shirro> there are a lot of ubuntu users. the most clueless always migrate to Mint
[0:30] <mchou> shirro: what??
[0:30] <zgreg> hotwings: >using a mac doesnt make you smart in any way. <--- steve jos would have disagreed :D
[0:30] <mchou> shirro: that's really funny since I'm using Mint right now
[0:31] <philh> heh
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[0:31] <shirro> a mac is a unix workstation. I would prefer a Linux workstation with all the hardware working perfectly out of the box, instant suspend/resume and good battery management but all the major manufacturers would rather cater to walmart customers
[0:31] <hotwings> ubuntu.. the cost-free attempt to emulate windows
[0:32] <shirro> ubuntu is closer to mac than windows in the UI
[0:32] <shirro> So much so that I occasionally see osx copy ubuntu
[0:32] <philh> hotwings, they've really fucked up if that's what they're attempting
[0:32] <hotwings> shirro - linx working perfectly out-of-the-box? lol
[0:32] <mchou> I don't understand why all you guys are making these pointless comparisons
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[0:32] <mchou> I wouldn't touch ubuntu because it's bug ridden...
[0:33] <philh> mchou, this is irc, they are angry nerds, come on...
[0:33] <hotwings> linux, in my experience, works great, until it breaks.. and that happens constantly
[0:33] <zgreg> how does ubuntu emulate windows? please...
[0:33] <mchou> and prevents me from getting work done...
[0:33] <shirro> windows will NEVER be a unix workstation. Therefore is unsuitable to real work. Mac and Linux can do the job. Which you get is down to what hardware you can buy.
[0:33] <mchou> not because it's most like windows or mac or whatever....
[0:33] <zgreg> if you look at Unity, it couldn't be any more different from windows
[0:34] <hotwings> linux is great if you work is running a web server
[0:35] <zgreg> mchou: what's so bug ridden about ubuntu?
[0:35] <philh> linux just works far more regularly than windows for me
[0:35] <philh> but i am careful about the hardware i buy
[0:35] <mchou> zgreg: try it and find out. their rolling relase model is a freaking disaster
[0:35] <shirro> nobody wants to make a high end linux laptop. if they did plenty of linux users like me would be on to them in a flash. me included
[0:35] <zgreg> mchou: what?
[0:35] <mchou> release*
[0:35] <philh> rolling release?
[0:35] <zgreg> ubuntu does not use a rolling release model
[0:35] <philh> you mean arch?
[0:36] <mchou> zgreg: sure they do. you just don't know it
[0:36] <philh> arch really does break spectacularly on a regular basis, ubuntu just breaks reliably every 6 months
[0:36] <hotwings> my windows boxes work great for my usage.. as do my linux boxes.. would i use linux for my desktop? hell no. would i use windows for my servers? hell no. i currently use linux for htpc, would i switch to windows? possibly...ive heard windows-based htpc is really solid these days
[0:36] <zgreg> mchou: you're confused
[0:36] <mchou> nothing is ever locked down. new "features"(aka bugs) all the time
[0:37] <hotwings> shirro - buy a highend laptop, sell the windows key that came with it, install linux.. your problem is solved
[0:37] <philh> mchou, when backports are enabled?
[0:37] <mchou> philh: when nothing besides updates are enabled
[0:37] <zgreg> ubuntu is quite conservative with backports. it's almost as bad as debian.
[0:38] <philh> mchou, breakages only come from dist upgrades, for me
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[0:38] <philh> they're very conservative about updates, fall behind the current release by a couple of revisions and you're stuck in the dark ages
[0:38] <mchou> philh: I tried ubuntu 2x and it was 2x too much
[0:38] <hotwings> mkopack - a week and some change dude!
[0:38] <shirro> hotwings: I wish it was that simple. I have looked. There is nothing really as nice and hasn't been for some time. Apple doesn't have the highest spec or cheapest hardware but they are better in a lot of little ways. I would VERY much like to buy my next laptop from someone else because I want to go back to a linux desktop fulltime
[0:38] <mkopack> We shall see!
[0:39] <mchou> philh: when you have crashes about 5 minutes in it's not a good sign
[0:39] <mkopack> Hot all depends on this certification testing going smooth and getting done...
[0:39] <hotwings> yup
[0:40] <zgreg> well, if you have the wrong hardware and system configuration, major problems can happen on all linuxen
[0:40] <philh> mchou, indeed, it's not, but that doesn't sound update induced
[0:40] <hotwings> that was more of a 'we shall see' week and some change, than a getting anxious one
[0:40] <shirro> zgreg: It is almost always easier to swap hardware than work around with linux
[0:40] <mchou> zgreg: umm, no. same exact hw with 3 different distros all worked just fine...
[0:40] <zgreg> that is unfortunately a rather typical problem with linux. hardware issues, and regressions, all over the place.
[0:41] <mkopack> Yeah
[0:41] <philh> shirro, not that i have anything more than an eeepc myself, but i've looked around a bit and elitebooks look nice
[0:41] <mchou> here's what I suspect the development model is like at ubuntu: if it compiles successfully, ship it!
[0:41] <shirro> some manufacturers don't understand open source drivers or what is required. if you get landed with their stuff it is trouble. nothing can be done. which is why it is amusing to see the Pi based on broadcom
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[0:42] <philh> shirro, indeed...
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[0:45] <mkopack> Man its SOOOOO nice not having school work hanging over my head.... It's like I don't know what to do with myself tonight... Freedom!!!!
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[0:46] <Thorn_> nerd
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[0:47] * Thorn_ beats mkopack up
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[0:59] <hotwings> thats quite the netsplit
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[1:01] <mkopack> Yeah sheesh!
[1:02] <mkopack> So I assume you Guys saw the new message about the testing on the home page?
[1:03] <hamitron> what they testing on the home page?
[1:03] <hamitron> ;)
[1:03] <SpeedEvil> EMI testing
[1:03] <SpeedEvil> Well - 'CE' really
[1:03] <piofcube> I got an email from RS today saying that
[1:04] <SpeedEvil> Me too
[1:04] <mkopack> Same
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[1:08] * SphericalCow (user@unaffiliated/sphericalcow) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:22] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@92.69.249.77) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[1:28] <Matt> any ukians around?
[1:29] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4d0c2659.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[1:30] <mkopack> Kinda late for that crowd
[1:30] <philh> Matt, why do you ask?
[1:30] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[1:31] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.208.81) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[1:32] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D1
[1:33] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4d0c2659.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] * PiBot sets mode +v oberling
[1:33] <Matt> are fray bentos pies still around?
[1:34] <philh> yes, but i've never been brave/desperate enough to sample one
[1:34] * Matt used to love thoe steak and kidney ones
[1:35] <Matt> I shall have to mental note to grab one when I'm back in august
[1:35] <mkopack> Bleach.. That just sounds gross
[1:35] <philh> where are you?
[1:35] <Matt> .ca
[1:36] <philh> and no one imports them for armed forces or anything silly like that?
[1:36] <Matt> oh, there are plenty of british import stores :)
[1:36] <Matt> I don't recall seeing them last time I looked tho
[1:36] <philh> mkopack, it pretty much is
[1:36] <zgreg> I hate c++.
[1:36] <mkopack> Heheh
[1:36] <Matt> I should pop into the wandering scot tomorrow and see
[1:36] <mkopack> Agreed. Greg... Give me java over c++ any time
[1:37] <Matt> even out local walmart has a british import section :)
[1:37] <mkopack> C++ is a headache and a half
[1:37] <Matt> although I refuse to pay >$2 for a can of beans
[1:37] <mkopack> Having to do all the memory management ugh
[1:37] <philh> Matt, could always post some to you, but i'd need a good wad of cash to be seen buying them in daylight hours
[1:37] <zgreg> stable ABI in c++? next to impossible without major kludges.
[1:37] <Matt> but $1.27 for a can of mushy peas is acceptable :)
[1:37] * Christian11 (~christian@p4FE1FA3A.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[1:38] <Matt> and they have proper british cadbury's dairy milk
[1:38] <Matt> and fruit and nut
[1:38] <zgreg> I'm working on a c++ library that exposes some classes directly in the API
[1:38] <zgreg> change *anything*, and the ABI breaks
[1:38] <Matt> which reminds me, I still have some bournville left
[1:38] <philh> mushy peas too? oh dear
[1:38] <zgreg> seriously, what were they thinking?
[1:38] <Matt> mushy peas are great
[1:38] <Matt> healthy too
[1:39] <zgreg> or rather, what was stroustrup thinking?
[1:39] <mkopack> Abi?
[1:39] <zgreg> the binary interface, mkopack
[1:39] <mkopack> Hmm
[1:40] <philh> i suppose they're vaguely bearable compared to most canned veg
[1:40] <zgreg> if you change anything in the class prototype of a c++ class, even a private member (!), it breaks the binary compatibility
[1:41] * P4R4N01D1 (~johndoe@189.83.208.81) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:41] <zgreg> that means, essentially, that you can never safely expose any classes directly in a library API, without major headache
[1:41] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.208.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:41] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D
[1:42] <zgreg> but, the library I'm working on does exactly thatt
[1:42] <zgreg> *that
[1:43] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:43] * PiBot sets mode +v MidnighToker
[1:46] <mkopack> Then how to libraries like glibc work???
[1:46] <Thorn_> they dont
[1:47] <mkopack> Hahah
[1:49] * imnichol (~ian@8.24.97.104) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[1:49] <zgreg> mkopack: they are written in plain c, not c++
[1:50] <mkopack> But I would think it'd be the same thing... C++ isn't all that different than c... Similar foundation
[1:50] <zgreg> it is very different, and generally not compatible to C
[1:52] <mkopack> But doesn't the linker, when I write a program that tries to use your library, adjust to the
[1:53] <mkopack> Sorry,get the new addresses? So long as you don't change the library after I compile and link, it should work
[1:53] <mkopack> If you change the library, then yeah, I have to recompile and relink
[1:53] <zgreg> the addresses of the entry points are not the issue here
[1:53] <zgreg> that's indeed dealt with automatically
[1:54] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[1:54] <mkopack> Guess I don't follow what the issue is then... I rarely do c++ ... Only when I absolutely have to
[1:54] <zgreg> the problem with c++ is that ABI compatibility needs class data of the same size, and if you add or remove something, ABI breaks
[1:54] <mkopack> Just takes me so much longer to accomplish stuff in c++ vs java or python
[1:54] <zgreg> indeed
[1:55] <mkopack> Although, I'll probably need to start doing it more now that I'm trying to do more stuff with ROS.. You can use python for some things in ROS, but others require c++
[1:56] * zear_ is now known as zear
[1:56] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:56] <zgreg> there is a workaround for this c++ deficiency (search for "pimpl pattern"), but IMO a language that focuses so strongly on OOP should not require this
[2:04] * |uen| (~uen@p5DCB28C1.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:27] * PiBot sets mode +v johnLAPACHE
[2:28] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[2:28] * ikso (~ikso@ip-208-93-128-118.saddlebackcomm.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
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[2:40] * convolution_ (~vaillor@93-43-173-111.ip93.fastwebnet.it) Quit ()
[2:40] <mkopack> Fringe is such a good show... Hate that this is the last season
[2:42] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Done)
[2:42] <hotwings> you mean season 5 or season 4?
[2:42] <mkopack> 4
[2:42] <mkopack> This is the final season
[2:42] <mkopack> Only a couple episodes left
[2:42] * zhoeon (~fc@bas2-sherbrooke40-1128575821.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:42] * PiBot sets mode +v zhoeon
[2:43] <hotwings> are you completely sure about that? i read just about a week ago that there we negotiations going on for season 5
[2:43] <hotwings> btw, i agree. i like fringe as well
[2:43] <mkopack> Huh my understand ing was they were ending it... Been wrapping up the story lines
[2:45] <hotwings> TV Line has upgraded Fringe in its "2012 Renewal Scorecard" from "Could go either way" to "A safe bet".
[2:46] <hotwings> i just checked again and theres been no announcement that season 4 is it. everything says negotiations are under way for season 5
[2:47] <mkopack> Huh cool
[2:47] <mkopack> Wonder how they are going to do that with the story
[2:48] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit ()
[2:48] <hotwings> theres plenty of story left to tell
[2:48] <hotwings> lotta unanswered questions
[2:49] <mkopack> They've been answering a lot of them though... Looping back in mysteries from season 1
[2:49] <hotwings> it sucks that terra nova was cancelled. sounds like theres a couple networks interested in picking it up though so it may see more seasons afterall
[2:49] <mkopack> I hope so, I liked that as well
[2:49] <mkopack> Seems like every show I like gets canned
[2:50] <mkopack> Fox has a pretty horrible track record with SF in general
[2:50] <hotwings> i love scifi.. or anything with aliens/space/etc
[2:50] <hotwings> yeah, tell me about it :(
[2:50] <mkopack> And god knows Syfy has totally let us down
[2:51] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@cpe-72-191-156-43.rgv.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:51] * PiBot sets mode +v dnstbr
[2:51] <mkopack> Wrestling? Monster of the week shotty made for tv low budget movie...
[2:51] <hotwings> youre being too nice! syfy has turned into a JOKE
[2:51] <mkopack> Cancel caprica, cancel SGU, etc.
[2:51] <hotwings> exactly!!
[2:52] <mkopack> I hear that the BSG prequel blood and chrome keeps getting flip flopped between web series and made for tvmovie...
[2:52] <hotwings> if syfy had balls, i would swiftly kick them over those cancellations
[2:52] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host130-123-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
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[2:53] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[2:53] <hotwings> i just hope that prequel is 1) good, and 2) high quality
[2:54] <mkopack> What I saw looked bad ass... Search YouTube
[2:58] * victhor (~victhor@187.113.172.205) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:58] <hotwings> SyFy cancels Blood & Chrome - for now
[2:58] <hotwings> Posted on March 23, 2012 - 15:19 by CB Droege
[2:58] <hotwings> Just a couple days after a pilot teaser was leaked to the Internet, Syfy has confirmed that it will not be carrying the long-awaited Battlestar Galactica prequel Blood and Chrome.
[2:58] <mkopack> ARGH!!!!!M!
[2:58] <mkopack> Son of a b|Tch!
[2:58] <hotwings> However, the series will likely continue, albeit in a non-broadcast form. As you may recall, the original intent of Blood and Chrome, before talks with Syfy began, was to create a webseries. As such, the producers will likely return to their initial plan for the story following the pilot.
[2:58] <hotwings> "We are actively pursuing it as was originally intended: a groundbreaking digital series that will launch to audiences beyond the scope of a television screen," says Syfy's Mark Stern. "The 90-minute pilot movie will air on Syfy in its entirety at a future date. Our enthusiasm for this ambitious project has not waned."
[2:59] <hotwings> well.. at least maybe it will make it to webseries >:(
[2:59] <mkopack> That is just fracking STOOPID!!!
[2:59] <hotwings> man, they do a great job of pissing fans off
[2:59] <mkopack> Yupp
[2:59] <hotwings> thats completely BS
[3:00] <mkopack> It's all about money
[3:00] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:00] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[3:00] <mkopack> They are afraid to invest in any projects that might cost them money... But willing to blow it on shit
[3:01] <hotwings> absolutely
[3:01] <hotwings> its almost like the shittier the idea, the more money theyll throw at it
[3:01] <hotwings> the more awesome it is, the more their butthole tightens
[3:01] <hotwings> btw: Fringe.S04E15.720p.HDTV.X264-DIMENSION
[3:01] <hotwings> :)
[3:01] <mkopack> They alienate the core target audience for their channel, which means they lose advertising, and that means they can't spend on new shows
[3:02] <mkopack> I just finished watching it
[3:02] <mkopack> Live
[3:02] <Matt> hopefully fox don't cancel alcatraz
[3:02] <mkopack> There hasn't been anything to watch on AFF in MONTHS
[3:02] <mkopack> Syfy
[3:02] <hotwings> ahh, i always just download the 720p rips and watch em commercial-free
[3:02] <Matt> although that seems to happen to all half decent shows
[3:02] <mkopack> I couldn't get into Alcatraz...
[3:03] <mkopack> Yup
[3:03] <Matt> alcatraz is great, but like other JJ stuff, you really need to be paying attention
[3:03] <mkopack> Yeah, can't miss an EP.. Gotta get in right at the start
[3:04] <mkopack> Alias was awesome.. But got really weird
[3:04] <hotwings> i downloaded all the original buck rogers in the 25th century episodes (2 seasons) and have been watching them.. didnt realize how much 70's funk music old sci-fi shows have :D
[3:05] <mkopack> Uh huh.. Didn't realize that was only 2 seasons
[3:05] <hotwings> same here actually.. i was surprised star trek tos is only 3
[3:05] <hotwings> i thought both ran longer than that
[3:06] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:06] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:06] * PiBot sets mode +v zabomber
[3:07] <mkopack> Ooh new Spartacus!
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[3:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[3:20] * zear (~zear@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:8a2:20d5:2abe:b43b) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:22] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
[3:22] * zear (~zear@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:8a2:20d5:2abe:b43b) has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:27] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@216.119.188.115) Quit (Changing host)
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[3:27] * PiBot sets mode +v bnmorgan
[3:27] * PiBot sets mode +v bnmorgan
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[3:28] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@50.57.81.35) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:28] * PiBot sets mode +v phantomcircuit
[3:28] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:29] * [Si] (~Si@xtreme.ipv6.uberbadger.co.uk) Quit ()
[3:31] * winocm (~textual@opensn0w/developer/winocm) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:31] * winocm (~textual@adsl-108-208-84-211.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Changing host)
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[3:31] * PiBot sets mode +v winocm
[3:31] * PiBot sets mode +v winocm
[3:36] * zear (~zear@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:8a2:20d5:2abe:b43b) Quit (Quit: bye)
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[3:37] * PiBot sets mode +v zear
[3:38] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:38] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
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[3:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[3:46] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:48] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[3:51] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-2-45-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:51] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:53] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[3:59] <Burninate_> mkopack: Star Trek TOS ran for decades in rerun/syndication mode
[4:00] <Burninate_> Did you recieve an education yesterday on the subject?
[4:01] <Burninate_> It was Shatnerday
[4:02] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:02] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[4:02] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[4:06] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:06] * bnmorgan- is now known as bnmorgan
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[4:06] * PiBot sets mode +v _inc
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[4:07] * _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) Quit (Client Quit)
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[4:31] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
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[4:39] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz_
[4:41] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4d0c2659.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[4:53] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410xx.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[4:54] * skilz (~skilz@120.154.123.74) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:54] * PiBot sets mode +v skilz
[4:54] * skilz is now known as Guest76963
[4:54] * slide (~slide@unaffiliated/slide) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:57] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
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[4:57] * PiBot sets mode +v RITRedbeard
[5:28] <Henchman21> the waiting game is getting old fast
[5:29] <RITRedbeard> life is long and I've got time to kill today
[5:32] <Da|Mummy> you people are cute with your 3 long wait....really
[5:32] <Da|Mummy> 3 week
[5:33] * techman2 (~gj@121.209.129.135) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:33] * PiBot sets mode +v techman2
[5:37] * zhoeon (~fc@bas2-sherbrooke40-1128575821.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[5:37] * Guest76963 is now known as Skilz
[5:38] * Skilz is now known as Guest45768
[5:38] * Guest45768 is now known as Skilz
[5:38] * Skilz (~skilz@120.154.123.74) Quit (Changing host)
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[5:38] * PiBot sets mode +v Skilz
[5:48] * cousteau (~cousteau@80.174.59.108.dyn.user.ono.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:48] * PiBot sets mode +v cousteau
[5:48] * cs[tc] (c@46.12.54.164.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:48] * PiBot sets mode +v cs[tc]
[5:49] * cousteau actually ate raspberry pie today
[5:53] <Henchman21> 3week try 2months+
[5:55] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: oldtopman has left the house)
[6:00] * cousteau (~cousteau@80.174.59.108.dyn.user.ono.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[6:05] <techman2> how are we all?
[6:15] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
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[6:19] * techman2 (~gj@121.209.129.135) Quit (Quit: A yawn is a silent shout.)
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[7:41] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
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[7:42] * PiBot sets mode +v techman2
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[7:51] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Client Quit)
[7:52] <aditsu> is it out yet?
[7:53] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:53] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[7:53] <mkopack> no
[7:54] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[7:54] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:54] <techman2> is what out yet?
[7:55] <acfrazier> s/"is it out yet"/"has anyone got one yet"/g
[7:55] <des2> aditsu is waiting for the new Justin Beiber album.
[7:55] <techman2> oooh
[7:56] <aditsu> lol
[7:56] <techman2> I'm hoping some people are starting to cancel their pi orders
[7:59] <hotwings> what a horrible thing to say
[8:00] <techman2> why?
[8:00] <acfrazier> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/03/23/shopping-for-zero-days-an-price-list-for-hackers-secret-software-exploits/
[8:00] <acfrazier> TIL government buys exploits to hack my phone
[8:01] <hotwings> the more rpi orders, the better
[8:01] <acfrazier> ^
[8:01] <acfrazier> because then more of them get made
[8:02] <techman2> yes but I think too many people jumped on the xbmc bandwagon
[8:02] * MrJackson (~MrJackson@c-174-59-171-89.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:02] * PiBot sets mode +v MrJackson
[8:02] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128123017.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[8:03] <hotwings> why would you care what other people plan on using their rpi's for?
[8:04] <techman2> because their orders are keeping pi's out of the hands of the developers and people who want to help the project get off the ground
[8:05] <hotwings> thats ridiculous. xbmc people arent keeping anything from anyone. the problem has been manufacturing and bad decisions, not orders
[8:06] <PaulFertser> hotwings: what bad decisions?
[8:06] * acfrazier is one of those developers
[8:06] <hotwings> PaulFertser - just read this channels logs or your scrollback (if youve been around long enough).. the subject has been talked to death already
[8:07] <acfrazier> fortunately, I have contacts, and might get one before anyone gets one at all
[8:07] <acfrazier> (that placed an order)
[8:07] <acfrazier> if you think 10,000 are going to the distributors you got fooled.
[8:07] <PaulFertser> hotwings: i read the channel and blogposts. What bad decision are you talking about?
[8:08] <hotwings> PaulFertser - im not going to beat that dead horse right now. you can read the logs again if you somehow missed all the conversations about it
[8:08] <PaulFertser> hotwings: about what? Do you mean RPi foundation made some bad decision or what?
[8:09] <hotwings> PaulFertser - yes. as did rs and farnell.
[8:10] <hotwings> so anyways, if any devs are pissy about having a hard time getting their hands on an rpi, they better look at the supply chain, not point their finger at end-users
[8:13] <PaulFertser> hotwings: i wonder what devs are missing by not having rpi right now in their hands, what can't they debug on their own laptops while waiting for the hardware? Kernel drivers? I haven't heard anybody working on those and i asked several times.
[8:17] <hotwings> theres no replacement for the real thing as a test platform but if devs are so anxious to get started, they can use the emulated version
[8:17] <PaulFertser> hotwings: what is the difference between a real thing and one's laptop?
[8:18] <hotwings> PaulFertser - emulation is never perfect and you dont know how the hardware performs until youre actually using it
[8:18] <PaulFertser> hotwings: i'm not talking about emulation at all.
[8:19] * MrJackson (~MrJackson@c-174-59-171-89.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[8:20] <PaulFertser> I mean what makes RPi essentially different? What special hardware (that the devs are interested in) it has that other devices lack?
[8:20] <hotwings> PaulFertser - what are you talking about then? how is a person supposed to debug code for a certain platform if they have neither the platform, nor emulation of the platform
[8:20] <aditsu> it has GPIO pins
[8:21] <PaulFertser> hotwings: GNU/Linux is the platform and its essentially the same on every supported device.
[8:21] <hotwings> theres nothing special about an rpi.. its just cheap and easy to create addons for, which makes it flexible
[8:22] <PaulFertser> aditsu: yes, but you can attach some ft232 thingie to any other device and have gpio pins as well. Or connect an atmega over uart or some other controller over usb etc etc. Getting GPIOs are not a problem.
[8:22] <hotwings> PaulFertser - what do you mean by the same?
[8:23] <PaulFertser> hotwings: you write software as usual, you debug it as usual, you run it as usual. And once you get RPi, you just compile it with appropriate compiler and appropriate options and it'll run there as well. In most cases.
[8:23] <aditsu> PaulFertser: easy for somebody how is knowledgeable about electronics; I don't even understand half the words you wrote
[8:24] <aditsu> and if I did, I would still have no idea where to get those things
[8:24] <hotwings> PaulFertser - thats the theory.. in pratice its not as smooth as it sounds
[8:24] <aditsu> s/how/who
[8:25] <hotwings> from what ive read, it took a lot of work to get xbmc running on rpi.. clearly a lot more involved than using certain compiler options
[8:27] <PaulFertser> hotwings: do you think i have no experience in embedded Linux? But i do. I know how to compile OE-based system, i know how to port OpenWrt to a custom target, i did some kernel hacking, i participated in the FSO/SHR project for the OpenMoko FreeRunner. I have some grounds to claim what i claim.
[8:27] <svenstaro> well then can anybody recommend an usb driven x86 development board I can use to get GPIO pins?
[8:28] <PaulFertser> svenstaro: the easiest is to get an ft232 "adapter" and attach it to any board you have control over.
[8:29] <svenstaro> well, I want to develop on my laptop
[8:29] <svenstaro> so I'd like something usb
[8:29] <PaulFertser> svenstaro: yes, you can attach ft232 to your laptop all right.
[8:33] <hotwings> PaulFertser - i have no assumptions about your experience with embedded linux.. it doesnt really matter because nothing ive said is untrue. what exactly is it you disagree with?
[8:33] <svenstaro> PaulFertser: I will need an arduino to attach it to I presume
[8:34] <PaulFertser> svenstaro: no
[8:35] * MrJackson (~MrJackson@c-174-59-171-89.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:35] * PiBot sets mode +v MrJackson
[8:37] <svenstaro> PaulFertser: something like this: http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/kommunikation/0406568/ ?
[8:39] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:39] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[8:39] <hotwings> svenstaro - one of my ir receivers uses an mm232r :)
[8:39] <svenstaro> what's the difference between mm232r and um232r?
[8:40] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[8:40] * PiBot sets mode +v JMNUTS
[8:40] <hotwings> not sure off-hand
[8:41] <svenstaro> well first of all is this what I want?
[8:42] <svenstaro> my requirements: drive motors and receive a lot of sensor feedback from and to my laptop
[8:42] <svenstaro> and yes I'm kinda new to this
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[8:51] * PiBot sets mode +v Martix
[8:55] <svenstaro> hotwings: PaulFertser: yo help me here :3
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[9:13] <weasel> haha. farnell just sent me an estimated shipping date of mid august.
[9:19] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:19] * PiBot sets mode +v farmboy
[9:21] <JMNUTS> ya, same date here, august
[9:23] <svenstaro> what exactly takes so long? raw production?
[9:24] * HienoMies (~HienoMies@e13.ip15.netikka.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[9:27] <JMNUTS> I gess huge demand...but am still waiting for RS contact, but farnell already has my money, I assume if they have the money already they could boost production
[9:31] <svenstaro> but that means the factory will only produce a single device every 20s or so
[9:31] <svenstaro> for 1mio orders
[9:45] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-124-179-214-230.lns2.lon.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[10:04] * nplus (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/simont) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[10:04] <PaulFertser> svenstaro: you can also by an Olimex ARM OCD jtag adapter, so you'll be able to use it for flashing and debugging arm targets and also to flash SPI memory with flashrom and also as arbitrary GPIO for your own projects.
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[10:13] <svenstaro> PaulFertser: I know some of those words
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[10:31] * PiBot sets mode +v setkeh
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[10:39] <svenstaro> PaulFertser: do you know the bus pirate?
[10:41] <PaulFertser> svenstaro: i heard about it but i need to google to understand exactly what that is.
[10:41] <svenstaro> I was hoping you could tell me
[10:41] <svenstaro> http://www.watterott.com/en/Bus-Pirat
[10:41] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:41] <svenstaro> http://www.watterott.com/en/Bus-Pirate
[10:43] <flaushy> try dangerous prototypes
[10:43] <flaushy> i think they designed it
[10:43] <flaushy> you can use it for various things :)
[10:44] <flaushy> svenstaro: http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate
[10:44] <svenstaro> yeah I know
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[12:32] <aditsu> is it out yet?
[12:32] <aditsu> (cue silly guy asking "is what out?")
[12:32] <lennard> sorry, missed my cue there
[12:32] <lennard> is what out?
[12:33] <aditsu> oh, you silly :)
[12:33] <aditsu> I miss the bot..
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[12:34] * PiBot sets mode +v datagutt
[12:36] * PocketIRC (~noobiepoc@86.123.81.175) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:39] * khildin (~khildin@ip-83-134-230-167.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:39] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[12:40] * zear_ (~zear@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:8a2:20d5:2abe:b43b) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:52] * FutFutFut (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:52] * PiBot sets mode +v FutFutFut
[12:54] * futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[12:54] * FutFutFut is now known as futurity
[13:00] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[13:00] * Matthew is now known as Guest31248
[13:07] * Kushan (Kushykins@s9.rdlbnc.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] * PiBot sets mode +v Kushan
[13:10] * khildin (~khildin@ip-83-134-230-167.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
[13:22] * dominikh (~dominikh@cinch/developer/dominikh) has left #raspberrypi
[13:24] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:29] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Faperdaper
[13:37] * futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: futurity)
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[13:38] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[13:45] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[13:53] * dormant (~dormant@d54C1A06E.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:53] * PiBot sets mode +v dormant
[13:55] * Christian11 (~christian@p57A3D309.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:56] * SeySayux (~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[13:56] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad28.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:56] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[13:57] * SeySayux (~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:57] * PiBot sets mode +v SeySayux
[13:59] <tero> um guys I am now going to a buy a usb wifi card that i tempoarry need for something, but I may use on r-pi.
[13:59] <tero> any sugetions?
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> It has tobe one with linux drivers, that does not use a binary blob
[14:04] * markit (~marco@88-149-177-66.staticnet.ngi.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] * PiBot sets mode +v markit
[14:06] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-2-45-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:06] * PiBot sets mode +v koaschten
[14:11] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-124-184-255-245.lns14.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[14:17] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:17] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[14:17] * Guest31248 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:18] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:18] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[14:18] * Matthew is now known as Guest88655
[14:19] * Guest88655 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:19] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Matttt
[14:20] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[14:25] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[14:25] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:25] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[14:27] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-124-184-255-245.lns14.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:37] * mcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[14:37] * PiBot sets mode +v mrcan
[14:46] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:01] * neciO (~juan@d51A44B85.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:01] * PiBot sets mode +v neciO
[15:03] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:03] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[15:06] * JMNUTS (~macbook@180.57.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:07] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:11] * finnx (~sheppards@99-39-251-198.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:11] * PiBot sets mode +v finnx
[15:11] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[15:15] * wjoe (~joe@lc8n.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[15:17] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:17] * PiBot sets mode +v phantoxe
[15:20] * owui (~owuiej@lk.46.182.231.79.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:20] * owui (~owuiej@lk.46.182.231.79.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:20] * PiBot sets mode +v owui
[15:21] * owui (~owuiej@lk.46.182.231.79.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) has left #raspberrypi
[15:24] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[15:25] * PiBot sets mode +v wjoe
[15:39] <normod> tero: http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/net/wireless/cards.html
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[15:49] * PiBot sets mode +v ShiftPlusOne
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[15:50] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[15:51] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:51] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[15:52] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@c-24-11-54-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:52] * PiBot sets mode +v johnthebear
[15:53] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:53] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
[15:59] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128092141.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:59] * PiBot sets mode +v lars_t_h
[16:00] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:02] <PaulFertser> svenstaro: buspirate looks nice indeed
[16:02] * Christian11 (~christian@p57A3D309.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:02] * PiBot sets mode +v Christian11
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[16:03] * PiBot sets mode +v MattRichardson
[16:04] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:05] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[16:07] * Kyzz (~quassel@cpe-24-166-81-109.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:07] * PiBot sets mode +v Kyzz
[16:10] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[16:10] <huene> !w leipzig
[16:10] <PiBot> huene: in Leipzig, Saxony. Temp 18??C. Condition: Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 56%, Later 23??C - 3??C. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[16:11] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[16:11] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[16:12] <zgreg> SpeedEvil: what's the problem with binary firmware blobs?
[16:12] <PaulFertser> zgreg: doesn't work on arm
[16:12] <PaulFertser> zgreg: in fact doesn't really work at all unless you're using it exactly as the moronic vendor developers did.
[16:13] <PaulFertser> zgreg: if you're choosing a usb wireless adapter, take a look at linuxwireless.org
[16:13] * akeeh (ak@dsl-trebrasgw1-fe4afa00-138.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[16:13] <zgreg> PaulFertser: those blobs run on the device, not the host
[16:13] <PaulFertser> zgreg: if you're interested in AP mode support probably ath9k_htc would be the best, second best is something that works with rt2800usb but it doesn't support power-saving using clients properly.
[16:14] <PaulFertser> zgreg: sure, blobs that run on the device itself is ok.
[16:14] <zgreg> of course there are some devices with need blobs that indeed run on the host, but they're very rare
[16:14] * akeeh (ak@a91-152-160-153.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:14] * PiBot sets mode +v akeeh
[16:14] <zgreg> *which
[16:14] <PaulFertser> zgreg: but broadcom's wl is of course not.
[16:15] <PaulFertser> zgreg: linuxwireless.org is the site maintained by the nice upstream kernel developers, the info is sometimes outdated but generally is accurate enough.
[16:18] <Hexxeh> hmm, what about rt3070?
[16:19] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:19] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[16:19] <PaulFertser> Hexxeh: i think it's rt2800usb too
[16:19] * Room2426 (~Room2426@unaffiliated/room2426) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Room2426
[16:19] * ishigoemon (~chris@pool-72-66-195-132.ronkva.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[16:20] * Room2426 (~Room2426@unaffiliated/room2426) has left #raspberrypi
[16:20] <PaulFertser> Hexxeh: should be ok. I have some strange latency issues using rt3070 on my own device in client mode (with my ath9k-based AP) though unless i disable the power_saving.
[16:20] <Hexxeh> PaulFertser: you have a beta board?
[16:20] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:21] <PaulFertser> Hexxeh: no, i have rt3070 integrated into a toshiba ac100 netbook.
[16:21] <zgreg> PaulFertser: well, those latency issues are normal (in part)
[16:21] <Hexxeh> ahh okay
[16:22] <zgreg> power saving modes typically notify the AP, and then disable the radio
[16:22] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:22] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[16:22] <PaulFertser> zgreg: i have noticeable delays while ssh'ing to the device. My AP beacon period is 100ms (which is the standard) and dtim is 2 (which also is common). I do not think 200ms maximum latency should affect my sshing _that_ much.
[16:22] <zgreg> the AP is then polling periodically if there's new data
[16:23] <zgreg> 200ms is quite a lot for ssh
[16:23] <PaulFertser> I think i experience serious packet loss and sometimes that results in > 1s latencies.
[16:23] <zgreg> well, that's pretty bad
[16:24] <zgreg> maybe your AP does not properly support power saving?
[16:24] <zgreg> AP support is required for proper function
[16:24] <PaulFertser> zgreg: i do not think the AP is polling the device, it's rather that the device notifies the AP before going to sleep and AP starts to buffer the packets notifying the station with a special field in the beacon.
[16:24] <PaulFertser> zgreg: ath9k should work fine...
[16:25] * Kostic (~Kostic@net208-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:25] * PiBot sets mode +v Kostic
[16:25] <zgreg> PaulFertser: of course it's the device that does the polling - my mistake
[16:25] * Kostic (~Kostic@net208-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[16:26] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[16:29] <zgreg> PaulFertser: the ac100 is the only real arm netbook available, isn't it?
[16:29] <zgreg> it's a pity, I've looked at the ac100, but it's rather underpowered, yet expensive
[16:30] <PaulFertser> zgreg: pspoll is not that much of a polling afaict, the station simply wakes up on time to hear the beacons and if the TIM (map) indicates there're frames for the station queued, the station just requests those.
[16:30] <PaulFertser> zgreg: there's asus transformer and efika mx and probably some others. But i got ac100 used cheap and i do not really need more power.
[16:30] <zgreg> PaulFertser: waking up periodically to check for new data *IS* polling, by definition :)
[16:30] * SimonT (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/simont) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:30] * PiBot sets mode +v SimonT
[16:31] <zgreg> but there's not much else beside polling that a wifi station can do, the only measure that really reduces power consumption is disabling the radio
[16:32] <PaulFertser> zgreg: hm, but polling sounds like doing something active while beacon reception is passive.
[16:32] * nplus (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/simont) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[16:32] * SimonT is now known as nplus
[16:33] <zgreg> well, the station needs to become active, and switch on the radio
[16:33] <PaulFertser> zgreg: there's U-APSD support coming soon though
[16:34] * Netlynx (~jan@d5153B33A.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:34] <PaulFertser> Anyway, something with my rt3070 is still not quite right, alas.
[16:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Netlynx
[16:35] * Netlynx (~jan@d5153B33A.access.telenet.be) Quit (Changing host)
[16:35] * Netlynx (~jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Netlynx
[16:35] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:35] <zgreg> that might reduce latency a little, if I understand correctly
[16:35] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:35] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[16:36] <zgreg> I have to wonder what AP support for U-APSD is
[16:36] <zgreg> s/what/how/
[16:37] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:37] * PiBot sets mode +v customtronics
[16:38] <mkopack> holy crud this is taking a while???. Doing the Linux From Scratch process...
[16:38] * customtronics (~puppy@user-12l2tpe.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:38] <mkopack> Just to give it a try
[16:39] * pizza-dude (~fake@dhcp-077-249-161-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] * PiBot sets mode +v pizza-dude
[16:39] * Nemo7 (nemo@nemo.org.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Nemo7
[16:40] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:43] * o19 (~o19@pD957BA26.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:43] * zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:43] * ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v o19
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v zear
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v TheNoodle
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v [deXter]
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v kallisti5
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v zarac
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v vinters
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v azalyn
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v ivan``
[16:44] * klm[_] is now known as Guest13279
[16:44] * [deXter] is now known as Guest35164
[16:45] <PaulFertser> zgreg: isn't u-apsd all done in software basically, so it'd be enough to have it supported in mac80211?
[16:45] * szprychu (~szprychu@a235.net132.okay.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:46] <zgreg> PaulFertser: I'm talking about consumer APs, I wonder how well it is supported by those
[16:47] <PaulFertser> zgreg: hm, i'm afraid i do not understand you.
[16:48] <PaulFertser> zgreg: if it's implemented in mac80211, all APs will naturally get the support i think.
[16:49] * neciO (~juan@d51A44B85.access.telenet.be) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:49] * neciO_ (~juan@d51A44B85.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:49] * PiBot sets mode +v neciO_
[16:49] <zgreg> PaulFertser: not all APs are using linux, and even those that do not necessarily use the mac80211 stack
[16:50] <PaulFertser> zgreg: ah, of course i do not care a bit about consumer APs that can't run OpenWrt.
[16:53] * neciO_ (~juan@d51A44B85.access.telenet.be) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:54] <PaulFertser> There're many cheap and nice APs that can run real software, so why bother about the others?
[16:55] * szprychu (~szprychu@a235.net132.okay.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:55] * PiBot sets mode +v szprychu
[16:56] * neciO (~juan@d51A44B85.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:56] * PiBot sets mode +v neciO
[17:00] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[17:00] * Kushan (Kushykins@s9.rdlbnc.com) Quit (Quit: Hosted by rdlBNC (Server 9 - United Kingdom))
[17:01] <Henchman21> havent rebooted my openwrt router in a coons age unlike some people rebooting their daily, the only problem i could forsee rebooting mine is if there was a memory leak
[17:01] <Henchman21> i've yet to witness such a problem
[17:02] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:02] * PiBot sets mode +v UnderSampled
[17:03] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:03] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[17:06] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:06] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals
[17:08] <PaulFertser> Henchman21: or hardware issue like faulty PSU or something. Or memory upgrade, i have soldered 8M SPI flash in my wr741nd.
[17:09] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:09] * PiBot sets mode +v Laogeodritt
[17:09] <Henchman21> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KQj_ObFqkDI/TbFX2Ua5sII/AAAAAAAAAT8/pJ0KM_j3VCo/s1600/untitled255.PNG
[17:12] * Kushykins (KucluX@109.73.162.121) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Kushykins
[17:12] * szprychu (~szprychu@a235.net132.okay.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[17:13] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:13] * PiBot sets mode +v Gallomimia
[17:14] * Space_Man_ (~space_man@87.127.156.98) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:14] * PiBot sets mode +v Space_Man_
[17:16] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[17:18] * Wolfram74 (~Wolfram74@63-152-76-134.cdrr.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[17:19] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[17:22] * Space_Man_ (~space_man@87.127.156.98) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[17:22] * Space_Man_ (~space_man@87.127.156.98) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:22] * PiBot sets mode +v Space_Man_
[17:22] * Space_Man_ (~space_man@87.127.156.98) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:22] * Space_Man_ (~space_man@87.127.156.98) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:22] * PiBot sets mode +v Space_Man_
[17:22] * Space_Man_ is now known as Space_Man
[17:23] <mkopack> Well, this is fun??? I have Debian installing in 1 VM, and I'm working on installing Gentoo in another??? lol
[17:24] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:24] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[17:27] <des2> Unless you have a million dollars, you shouldn't be doing 2 linuxes at the same time.
[17:28] <mkopack> lol, why not? They're in VM's??? Debian is basically off and going, it does it all on it's own??? Gentoo is the more hands on one, and so far it's going fine
[17:29] <mjr> hmm, I should clearly have a million dollars
[17:29] <mjr> where is it?!?
[17:29] <Henchman21> 10$ says he's using a pirated copy of vmware
[17:29] <mkopack> wrong??? Paid for version of Parallels 7.0 thanks :)
[17:30] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:30] <mkopack> ls
[17:30] <mjr> Henchman21, I'll take that bet!
[17:31] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[17:32] * Space_Man (~space_man@87.127.156.98) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[17:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Space_Man
[17:45] <tero> a few hours ago i was asking what usb wifi could work on r-pi, any ideas if this works?
[17:46] <tero> http://uk.asus.com/Networks/Wireless_Adapters/WL167G_V3/
[17:47] * o19 (~o19@pD957BA26.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[17:49] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[17:49] <tero> crap
[17:49] <tero> i think it would not
[17:50] <tero> i am googling and i think this has a realtek8712 chip
[17:50] <tero> and accourding to this
[17:50] <tero> http://wiki.debian.org/rtl819x
[17:50] <tero> works only on x86
[17:50] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:50] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[17:50] * amithkk (u4289@2buntu/writers/amithkk) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[17:51] <mjr> that's curious. Maybe it refers to the packaged Debian kernels?
[17:51] <mjr> (I dunno.)
[17:53] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[17:54] <tero> the funny thing is that i need now a wifi usb card for something unrelated to r-pi and only temporary and on windows. but since i am buying it now i was thinking that i could use it on the rpi later
[17:55] <tero> so i guess i have to go to the local computer store, see what they have and google it home
[17:55] <tero> :\
[17:55] <zgreg> tero: most USB wifi dongles should work
[17:56] <tero> zgreg so how come the first that i come acroos and 5 minutes of googling says it doesn't ?
[17:56] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:56] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[17:56] <zgreg> that's inaccurate information
[17:56] <tero> heh?
[17:57] * Matthew is now known as Guest25943
[17:57] <zgreg> that debian page merely says the current debian kernel does not ship those drivers on anything but x86
[17:57] <mjr> so I guessed right, yay me
[17:58] <tero> ok
[17:58] <tero> then this card should work?
[17:58] <mkopack> Hmm. well, I got the debian install finished, but for some reason when I try to install the Parallels extensions, it doesn't do anything...
[17:58] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] * PiBot sets mode +v pistacik
[17:58] <mkopack> like it doesn't even run the script, just gives me back the command line prompt. sigh
[18:00] * Kushykins (KucluX@109.73.162.121) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:00] <aditsu> is it out yet?
[18:00] <IT_Sean> no.
[18:01] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[18:01] <aditsu> shucks..
[18:02] <aditsu> any brits here? I'm wondering when BGT is starting
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> BGT?
[18:03] <aditsu> Britain's Got Talent
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> I sincerely hope never.
[18:03] <aditsu> lol
[18:03] <des2> http://raspberrywifi.com/
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain%27s_Got_Talent_%28series_6%29
[18:04] <aditsu> c'mon, it's quite fun
[18:04] <zgreg> des2: uhh. we don't know yet if these dongles will work for sure... putting out any definite recommendations is dangerous
[18:04] <aditsu> well, it's 24th there right?
[18:05] <zgreg> all wifi adapters that have open source drivers *should* work, but you cannot be completely sure.
[18:05] <des2> indeed
[18:06] <aditsu> ah, 8 pm?
[18:07] <aditsu> so.. in 3 hours
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> aditsu: indeed
[18:07] * Netlynx (~jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[18:08] <aditsu> too late, I'll have to watch tomorrow
[18:12] * Guest25943 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[18:17] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:17] <mjr> zgreg, at least such cards should be possible to made to work with little effort, provided the driver works on _some_ architecture...
[18:17] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:18] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[18:18] <mjr> (well, there's always a chance of USB hardware bugs ;] )
[18:19] <mjr> *knocks on head*
[18:19] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:19] * PiBot sets mode +v farmboy
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[18:28] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@65-128-23-125.hlrn.qwest.net) Quit (Changing host)
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[18:29] <piofcube> mjr: I remember the first 56K flex (IIRC) modems could only get that speed on AMD PCs... For quite a while, if you used them on an Intel PC, you only got half the speed.
[18:29] <mjr> groovy
[18:31] <piofcube> Only because those modems used the CPU for most of its work... I dunno what the USB hardware is like regarding the use of the host CPU vs self-sufficient hardware solutions
[18:31] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> I want a USB DAB radio
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> Piable
[18:32] <piofcube> But I could imagine that devices that do all the work internally would have better chance of being compatible? (I might be talking a load of rubbish these days LOL)
[18:32] <Matt> 58k flex
[18:32] <Matt> jeez
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> 56
[18:32] <Matt> um
[18:32] <Matt> yeah
[18:32] <Matt> typo :)
[18:32] <Matt> you have to excuse that - I'm still getting used to the kb on this netbook
[18:33] <piofcube> what's 2k between friends LOL
[18:33] <Matt> we ended up getting ISDN at the office to replace our 56k dialup
[18:33] <Matt> cause we were too far away from the exchange for adsl
[18:33] <piofcube> I still have my motorola modemsrfer external
[18:33] <Matt> I have a usr 56k sportster
[18:34] <Matt> external
[18:34] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[18:34] <Matt> fairly modern thing
[18:34] <piofcube> both very nice modems
[18:34] <Matt> aye
[18:34] * Matthew is now known as Guest16364
[18:34] <Matt> I like how the modern sportster still looks like they used the stylophone case
[18:35] <piofcube> yeah, they should have had Rolf Harris advertising them ;-)
[18:36] <piofcube> Rolf Harris and his 100 greatest Stylophone hits LMAO
[18:38] <Matt> :D
[18:38] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[18:41] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:49] * eighty9vision (~89vision@c-71-199-40-123.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:49] * PiBot sets mode +v eighty9vision
[18:50] <eighty9vision> so stupid question....are they available to purchase anywhere? I keep getting an error when I go to the "shop" section of the website
[18:50] <des2> Define 'purchase'
[18:50] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:50] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[18:50] <eighty9vision> buy one and have it delivered to my house within a reasonable amount of time
[18:50] <des2> As in give someone money for some sketchy future delivery date ?
[18:51] <eighty9vision> ahhh
[18:51] <Dagger2> they're available to purchase in the FAQ
[18:51] <Dagger2> or rather the FAQ tells you who you can order one from
[18:51] <des2> People buying right now are geting dates in 4+ months
[18:51] <eighty9vision> wow
[18:51] <des2> http://elinux.org/RPi_Buying_Guide#Ordering
[18:51] <eighty9vision> do they charge your card no or when they deliver it?
[18:51] <eighty9vision> now*
[18:52] * Guest16364 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[18:55] * PiBot sets mode +v ragna_
[18:55] <des2> That may depend on where specifically you ordered from
[18:56] <IT_Sean> To answer your question in the most basic way possible, eighty9vision, they are backordered out the wazoo
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> (The Wazoo is a small river, near Beijing.)
[18:58] * ragna (~ragna@e180078053.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[18:59] <eighty9vision> ok, ill guess ill go back trying to get linux to run on my microwave
[19:00] <piofcube> Convert the turntable into a HDD
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlhlyT4i7-g - on the general topic.
[19:02] * DataSpree (~DataSpree@ip72-204-12-32.fv.ks.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[19:06] <eighty9vision> that video is blocked in my country
[19:06] <eighty9vision> apparently
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[19:32] * PiBot sets mode +v chod
[19:39] <ShiftPlusOne> SpeedEvil, Damn you! Ever since you've mentioned that laptops with 4:3 screens are not available, I've been really aware of how sucky 16:9 is. I would've been happily ignorant without even considering that I 'could' have more vertical space, but no, you had to go ahead and ruin that. >=/
[19:39] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:40] * tero (~l@86.58.60.109) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:41] <IT_Sean> you prefer 4:3?
[19:41] <IT_Sean> 16:9 FTW!
[19:41] <PaulFertser> ShiftPlusOne: have you considered using a dynamic tiling WM?
[19:41] * chod does
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[19:42] * PiBot sets mode +v tero
[19:42] * IT_Sean anxiousily awaits the arrival of his new laptop
[19:42] * mjr pats his 16:10 30" (not a laptop though - that would be interesting)
[19:44] <PaulFertser> ShiftPlusOne: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/xmonad_layouts_for_netbooks/
[19:45] * Space_Man (~space_man@87.127.156.98) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[19:45] <ShiftPlusOne> PaulFertser, not a bad idea, thanks.
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[19:49] <des2> 16:9 is for watching movies.
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[19:49] * PiBot sets mode +v Space_Man
[19:49] <des2> For everything else there is 4:3
[19:49] <ShiftPlusOne> exactly
[19:49] <des2> For reading text turn your 4:3 90 degrees
[19:50] <ShiftPlusOne> though I am not sure why it's used for movies either... I don't get widescreen I guess.
[19:51] <des2> The aspect ratio refers to the ratio of width to height of the image. You'll notice that in a movie theater they tend to have really wide screens, some wider than they are tall. The reason for this is its a lot closer to the aspect ratio of human vision (which must be very wide (2:35:1) to capture all of our peripheral vision but not very wide (4:3) to capture our high res center vision ), by filli
[19:51] <des2> ng up all of our vision with the video it becomes more immersive. Theatres got this right in the 1950s. To create that cinematic feel with your digicam you need to go wide wide wide.
[19:52] <des2> (From: http://snapsort.com/learn/movie-capability/format )
[19:52] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:52] <SpeedEvil> mjr: I'm pondering one of those - second hand. It seems the only way to get a height upgrade of vertical space over my 20.1" monitor 4:3
[19:52] <ShiftPlusOne> des2, yeah, fair enough.
[19:53] <des2> I'm using Dell 2001fp 4:3 1600x1200
[19:54] <des2> The unfortunate thing about wide screen is that it lest manufactures still claim the same diagnolal size while delivering less pixels.
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[19:54] <des2> Which is a big reason I think that wide screen is apprearing everywhere.
[19:55] <des2> Most people aren't watchig movies sitting at their desktop.
[19:55] <des2> But stupid wide screen 20" monitors are now the norm
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> I'd actually like 1:1
[19:57] <zgreg> not just less pixels, des2
[19:57] <zgreg> less *area*, so it's cheaper to produce!
[19:57] <zgreg> however, 16:10 is a good compromise, in my opinion
[19:58] <zgreg> 16:9 is too wide for typical UIs
[19:58] <zgreg> except if you have a really big screen with crazy high resolution
[19:58] <zgreg> (and no, 1080p is not high resolution, especially not on 24"+ display sizes)
[19:59] <des2> right zgreg, less area.
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> zgreg: To some extent - the cost of a LCD panel is set by the shortest dimension.
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> Cost of a production line to make^
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Making long but thin panels is quite cheap
[20:01] <zgreg> I currently have a 20" display with 1680x1050, that comes down to almost exactly 100 dpi
[20:01] <zgreg> most of the big displays you can buy for cheap at the moment have far less than that
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> zgreg: Indeed.
[20:02] <zgreg> it's pretty disappointing...
[20:02] <zgreg> it's not a technical problem to make displays with high resolution, and high dpi
[20:03] <zgreg> smartphones have more than 200 dpi typically, and some displays offer more than 300 dpi
[20:03] <zgreg> it's a very disappointing situation overall
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBM-T221-9503-DGP-48-hz-Max-3840-x-2400-Free-Shipping-/200730468894?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item2ebc77e21e
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> 6 years old. 22" 4:3 3840x2400
[20:04] <zgreg> SpeedEvil: yeah, high-res displays exist, but they're rare and priced astronimically high
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> I don't think there is a current monitor that high
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> 200 dpi is probably adequate - maybe a little more - for a desktop
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> 140dpi would be OK
[20:05] <zgreg> it's pretty stupid, the ipad 3 offers more pixels than those huge 24"-27" 1080p displays
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> yep
[20:06] * RITRedbeard (Yoss@129.21.121.196) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:06] * PiBot sets mode +v RITRedbeard
[20:06] <zgreg> yeah, I'm not even asking for super high dpi, anything over 100 dpi is good, and 140 dpi would be great
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[20:07] * PiBot sets mode +v AdrianG
[20:10] <zgreg> 140 dpi should already be enough to make text as clear as something printed, at the typical viewing distance
[20:10] <Dimacus> zgreg: is all because if all this HD crap, when they launched those standards everything above 800x600 suddenly became "high resoultion"
[20:11] <des2> 3 years ago you could routinely get 19" 1280x1024 monitors for $100.
[20:11] * RITRedbeard (Yoss@129.21.121.196) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:11] <des2> Now you can get crappier widescreen 20" at that price.
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[20:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Behold
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[20:12] <Dimacus> most consumers are happy with that, so higher resolutions became more expensive
[20:12] * Behold (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Changing host)
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[20:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Behold
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[20:14] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:14] <Dimacus> just look at the standard mid-range laptop today, they are mostly 1366x7xx
[20:14] <Dimacus> I have a midrange laptop that's probably 8 years old that has a better screen that those
[20:15] * Space_Man (~space_man@87.127.156.98) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[20:21] <zgreg> Dimacus: yes, some notebooks of ~2000 have 1400x1050
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[21:04] <markus> hello you
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[21:52] * PiBot sets mode +v area
[21:54] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:55] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[21:55] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:55] * PiBot sets mode +v ukscone
[22:05] * mcinerney (~jsmith@peter.mcinerney.id.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:05] * rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:06] * mcinerney (~jsmith@peter.mcinerney.id.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:06] * PiBot sets mode +v mcinerney
[22:07] * rikai (~rikai@cpe-72-224-109-140.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:07] * rikai (~rikai@cpe-72-224-109-140.maine.res.rr.com) Quit (Changing host)
[22:07] * rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:07] * PiBot sets mode +v rikai
[22:07] * PiBot sets mode +v rikai
[22:08] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:08] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[22:10] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:10] * PiBot sets mode +v skrock
[22:14] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-133.molalla.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:16] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-133.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] * PiBot sets mode +v jardiamj
[22:20] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[22:20] * sven1994 (~svens@dslb-188-109-063-010.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] * PiBot sets mode +v sven1994
[22:21] * n17ikh (~peter@c-174-56-150-44.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:21] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] * PiBot sets mode +v pizthewiz
[22:21] * n17ikh (~peter@c-174-56-150-44.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] * PiBot sets mode +v n17ikh
[22:22] * DooMMasteR (~DooMMaste@unaffiliated/doommaster) Quit (Excess Flood)
[22:22] * felgru (~felgru@xdsl-78-35-212-79.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:22] * PiBot sets mode +v felgru
[22:22] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:22] * PiBot sets mode +v MystX
[22:23] * DooMMasteR (~DooMMaste@2002:86a9:ac01:affe:5604:a6ff:fe85:a556) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:23] * PiBot sets mode +v DooMMasteR
[22:23] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410xx.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:23] * DooMMasteR is now known as Guest38618
[22:26] * Willard (~Willard@5ac11d32.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:26] * PiBot sets mode +v Willard
[22:26] * Willard (~Willard@5ac11d32.bb.sky.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:27] * Wi114rd (~Wi114rd@5ac11d32.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] * PiBot sets mode +v Wi114rd
[22:28] * jamesglanville (~james@92.40.254.153.threembb.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:28] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
[22:29] * pistacik (~pista@ip-213-220-206-109.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:31] * sven1994 (~svens@dslb-188-109-063-010.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
[22:32] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[22:32] * Henchman21 (~rakata@208.102.127.220) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:33] * Henchman21 (~rakata@208.102.127.220) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:33] * PiBot sets mode +v Henchman21
[22:34] * jamesglanville (~james@92.40.254.153.threembb.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:34] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:34] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[22:38] * Wi114rd (~Wi114rd@5ac11d32.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:41] * blommer_ (~blommer@pdpc/supporter/student/blommer) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
[22:44] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:44] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[22:54] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.208.81) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[22:56] * Kyzz (~quassel@cpe-24-166-81-109.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:56] * roman3x (~roman3x@bband-dyn217.95-103-111.t-com.sk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:56] * PiBot sets mode +v roman3x
[22:56] * JMNUTS (~macbook@180.57.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt) Quit (Quit: JMNUTS)
[22:56] * BrovietRussia (~secret@adsl-98-93-215-180.owb.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:57] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[22:57] * BrovietRussia (~secret@adsl-98-93-215-180.owb.bellsouth.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:57] * PiBot sets mode +v BrovietRussia
[22:58] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: TLS packet ect messages)
[22:59] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[23:02] * Guest35164 (dexter@79.133.200.37) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[23:07] * RITRedbeard (RITReadbea@t410xx.student.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:07] * PiBot sets mode +v RITRedbeard
[23:16] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:16] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Gallomimia
[23:18] * Wi114rd (~Wi114rd@5ac11d32.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] * PiBot sets mode +v Wi114rd
[23:19] * Wi114rd (~Wi114rd@5ac11d32.bb.sky.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:25] * Wi114rd (~Wi114rd@5ac11d32.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:25] * PiBot sets mode +v Wi114rd
[23:25] * Wi114rd (~Wi114rd@5ac11d32.bb.sky.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:27] * futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: futurity)
[23:31] * blommer_ (~blommer@pdpc/supporter/student/blommer) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] * PiBot sets mode +v blommer_
[23:33] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Happy Now?)
[23:39] * acfrazier (~acfrazier@opensn0w/developer/acfrazier) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[23:40] * barr5790 (~alan@85.210.234.181) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:40] * PiBot sets mode +v barr5790
[23:41] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
[23:41] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[23:42] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-133.molalla.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:43] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:43] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[23:44] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-133.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] * PiBot sets mode +v jardiamj
[23:45] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:46] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:46] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[23:47] * blommer_ (~blommer@pdpc/supporter/student/blommer) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
[23:48] * [deXter] (dexter@79.133.200.37) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:48] * PiBot sets mode +v [deXter]
[23:48] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p5-133.molalla.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:56] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@92.69.192.16) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.