#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-03-28

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:03] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-212-120-206.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] * PiBot sets mode +v nrdb
[0:05] * neil__ (~neil@CPE-121-212-120-206.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:06] * netcarver (~netcarver@87.113.162.160) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:08] * cypher708 (cypher707@89-181-197-43.net.novis.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher708
[0:09] <shirro> So is today the day? Is it? Is it?
[0:09] <shirro> Today, being tomorrow for everyone else.
[0:10] * cypher707 (cypher707@89.181.197.10) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:10] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[0:11] <ShiftPlusOne> the day for what?
[0:11] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Davespice
[0:11] <shirro> Unspecified announcement of something from Liz. Perhaps something to do with boxes seen on Eben's desk.
[0:13] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, must've missed it
[0:14] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:14] * PiBot sets mode +v setkeh
[0:14] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:14] <shirro> A batch of just under 2000 are supposed to have arrived in cambridge. I don't think any will make it to the southern hemisphere.
[0:15] <ShiftPlusOne> =(
[0:15] <shirro> The trouble is the air systems don't intermix well. So when the pirate balloons get launched they will stay north of the equator.
[0:16] <ShiftPlusOne> O_o
[0:16] * EastLight (t@5ac4af7f.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:16] * PiBot sets mode +v EastLight
[0:16] * tomnewmann (~tomnewman@host109-157-59-54.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:17] * basso_ (~quassel@pc5103.stdby.hin.no) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:17] * basso (~quassel@pc5103.stdby.hin.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:17] * PiBot sets mode +v basso
[0:17] * dormant (~dormant@d54C1A06E.access.telenet.be) Quit (Quit: dormant)
[0:18] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-094-222-240-012.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:18] * PiBot sets mode +v ghans
[0:18] * ghans (~irchon@dslb-094-222-240-012.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:18] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[0:19] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... now I see why people hate ./configure scripts
[0:21] * Jettis (~h0h0@a88-112-77-38.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:24] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: what's the problem? other than configure sucks
[0:24] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, I compiled and installed freetype2, but pkg-config isn't finding it
[0:25] <ukscone> this with sb2?
[0:25] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[0:25] <ukscone> try running it inside an sb2 shell
[0:26] <ShiftPlusOne> sb2 shell?
[0:26] <ukscone> type sb2 -eR
[0:26] <ukscone> with no command
[0:26] <ShiftPlusOne> ah... I've been doing sb2 -eR bash
[0:27] <ShiftPlusOne> and what am I meant to run?
[0:27] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:27] <ukscone> well once you are inside the shell it is effectivly a chroot
[0:27] <ukscone> so use as if you were using a chrooted enviroonment
[0:28] <ShiftPlusOne> wouldn't that be the same as sb2 -eR ./configure ?
[0:28] <ukscone> yes and no
[0:28] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] * PiBot sets mode +v Laogeodritt
[0:28] <ukscone> yes it is and no it isn't :) in the shell things work better for locating stuff
[0:28] <ukscone> and envars work better
[0:29] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.80.127) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] * PiBot sets mode +v EiN_
[0:29] <ukscone> btw if you need envvars use sb2-config
[0:29] <ukscone> gotta go do something in the kitchen, back in a few
[0:30] <ShiftPlusOne> still doesn't find freetype
[0:33] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... progress
[0:33] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[0:34] * eighty9vision (~89vision@144.35.27.51) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] * PiBot sets mode +v eighty9vision
[0:34] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host131-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
[0:37] * Adrian_G (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:38] <ShiftPlusOne> "sb2 -Re ./configure" works fine (takes ages though), but "sb2 ./configure" doesn't find freetype. Any idea how to make it find freetype without emulation?
[0:38] <ReggieUK> -I?
[0:38] * AdrianG (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * PiBot sets mode +v AdrianG
[0:38] <ReggieUK> and -l
[0:38] * amphetamine_ (~amphetami@CPE1c6f658faa92-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * amphetamine (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * PiBot sets mode +v amphetamine_
[0:38] * PiBot sets mode +v amphetamine
[0:39] <ReggieUK> or sb2 ./configure --help
[0:39] <ShiftPlusOne> didn't help
[0:39] * amphetamine_ (~amphetami@CPE1c6f658faa92-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:39] * amphetamine (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:40] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Changing host)
[0:40] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[0:40] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[0:42] * nelson (~nelson@173.245.158.112) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:42] * PiBot sets mode +v nelson
[0:45] * basso (~quassel@pc5103.stdby.hin.no) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[0:45] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[0:46] * PiBot sets mode +v basso
[0:53] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:54] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm =/ "error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type"
[0:55] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * PiBot sets mode +v Gallomimia
[0:55] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[0:55] * nelson (~nelson@173.245.158.112) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:55] <ReggieUK> bit random ShiftPlusOne, got any more context around that error?
[0:56] <ShiftPlusOne> Nuh, I was hoping it's a common cross-compiling error.
[0:56] <ReggieUK> depends what the rest of the error is really
[0:56] <ReggieUK> it looks like it might be a common C issue
[0:57] <ReggieUK> but needs context around teh error (like the file its coming from0
[0:58] <ReggieUK> if it's stuff that's supposed to just compile then at a guess it could be missing a header from somewhere
[0:58] <ReggieUK> which might point to a missing path somewhere
[0:58] <ShiftPlusOne> I'll keep trying to get it to work without emulation before coming back to that one
[0:58] * ReggieUK really wants ShiftPlusOne to post the full error :D
[1:00] <ShiftPlusOne> alright, hang on
[1:01] <ReggieUK> :D
[1:01] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm, the file the error comes from actually looks fairly simple
[1:03] * basso (~quassel@pc5103.stdby.hin.no) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:03] <ShiftPlusOne> seems to be related to libpng, I think.
[1:03] <ShiftPlusOne> http://pastebin.com/gjZ9LMR8
[1:04] <ShiftPlusOne> and that's while compiling directfb obviously
[1:06] * cypher707 (cypher707@89.181.197.173) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:06] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher707
[1:06] * cypher708 (cypher707@89-181-197-43.net.novis.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:07] <ShiftPlusOne> found a patch
[1:07] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: Gallomimia)
[1:08] * basso (~quassel@pc5103.stdby.hin.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:08] * PiBot sets mode +v basso
[1:09] * neil__ (~neil@CPE-124-183-184-48.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:09] * PiBot sets mode +v neil__
[1:10] * Probeus (~probeus@probeus.no) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:11] * zleap (~psutton@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:11] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-212-120-206.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:12] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Quit: rebooting)
[1:12] <ReggieUK> hmmm
[1:12] <ReggieUK> possibly a missing -l?
[1:13] <ShiftPlusOne> nope, just directfb being incompatible with libpng 1.5 without a patch
[1:13] <ReggieUK> aha
[1:14] * nelson (~nelson@173.245.158.112) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] * PiBot sets mode +v nelson
[1:14] <ReggieUK> I was close then, it was at least libpng that was the ass
[1:14] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[1:16] * EiN_ (~einstein@205.233.80.127) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:17] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[1:17] * finnx (~sheppards@99-39-251-198.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has left #raspberrypi
[1:17] <ShiftPlusOne> well directfb is actually being the ass here, not libpng
[1:18] * neil__ (~neil@CPE-124-183-184-48.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:18] <ReggieUK> sort of :)
[1:18] <ReggieUK> but anyway, it's a problem solved :)
[1:18] * cypher708 (cypher707@89.181.197.207) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:18] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher708
[1:19] <ShiftPlusOne> sort of >.> ... sb2 still isn't playing nice with pkg-config
[1:20] * ReggieUK hates pkg-config
[1:20] <ShiftPlusOne> It doesn't seem to like us either
[1:21] * nelson (~nelson@173.245.158.112) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:21] * cypher707 (cypher707@89.181.197.173) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:21] <ukscone> ok back -- everyone is fed and watered
[1:21] <ShiftPlusOne> welcome back =D
[1:22] <ShiftPlusOne> now make pkg-config find freetype2 without emulation! >=/
[1:22] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: which seed rootfs are you using?
[1:22] <ShiftPlusOne> arch
[1:23] <ukscone> well that explains it :)
[1:23] <ukscone> arch sucks :D
[1:23] <ShiftPlusOne> lies
[1:23] <ShiftPlusOne> and blasphemy
[1:23] <ukscone> and heresy too
[1:23] * AdrianG (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:24] * tRank (~Fari@5e0991fd.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:24] * PiBot sets mode +v tRank
[1:24] * Tachyon` (hideki@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust905.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Tachyon`
[1:25] <ShiftPlusOne> I suppose blasphemy would be a subset of heresy, so just lies and heresy will do.
[1:25] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[1:25] * nelson (~nelson@173.245.158.112) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:25] * PiBot sets mode +v nelson
[1:26] <ShiftPlusOne> http://directfb.org/index.php?path=Main%2FNews&entry=2011-12-26-0.dok
[1:26] <ShiftPlusOne> =)
[1:26] <ShiftPlusOne> saves some trouble, I suppose
[1:26] <ukscone> directfb sucks chunks
[1:27] <ukscone> i hate it
[1:27] <ukscone> caused me no end of troubl on the zipit
[1:27] <ShiftPlusOne> sdl seems to need it.... Unless I can just disable it...
[1:27] <ReggieUK> sdl shouldn't need direct-fb as such?
[1:27] <ReggieUK> just a framebuffer device of some kind
[1:27] <ukscone> sdl doesn't need it
[1:28] <ShiftPlusOne> oh >.>
[1:28] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah... I should make a habit of checking configure --help
[1:28] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:28] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[1:29] * neil__ (~neil@CPE-121-218-79-224.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:29] * PiBot sets mode +v neil__
[1:30] * EastLight (t@5ac4af7f.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[1:30] <ShiftPlusOne> does directfb need much modification to run on different platforms?
[1:30] <ReggieUK> from memory, not particularly
[1:31] <ShiftPlusOne> seems to be compiling fine now (emulated)... taking ages, so I don't know if it will make it all the way through, but it seems to be over the last hurdle
[1:31] * nelson (~nelson@173.245.158.112) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[1:32] <ShiftPlusOne> and SDL 1.2 + GLES support just compiled =D
[1:32] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@173-57.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:32] <ReggieUK> most of the cross-compiling crapola I've seen is a mix between pkg-configure path issues, missing libs or an obscure (or durp obvious) missing switch, so ./configure --help is always useful ShiftPlusOne
[1:33] <ReggieUK> then again, I've only really worked on 2 arm systems for cross compiling
[1:33] <ShiftPlusOne> well you seem to have enough experience from all the leapfrog stuff you've done
[1:34] <ReggieUK> I have lots and lots of patience for poking things with a stick until they work
[1:34] * victhor (~victhor@177.41.11.104) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:34] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[1:34] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[1:34] <ReggieUK> you could probably break it down a little further into small quirks and foibles between build systems too
[1:35] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:35] * PiBot sets mode +v JonSeals
[1:36] <ReggieUK> I personally think leapfrog has probably been a bit of a baptism of fire
[1:36] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[1:36] <ReggieUK> but it's been great fun too
[1:36] <ReggieUK> the parrot digital photoframe has been lots of fun too
[1:37] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[1:37] <ReggieUK> leapfrog gave us the source code and a build system
[1:38] <ReggieUK> but missed out lots of support scripts
[1:40] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:40] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[1:40] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... new hurdle "cannot find -lGLES_CM"
[1:42] <ReggieUK> looks like it can't find the opengl library
[1:42] <ReggieUK> check paths :)
[1:42] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't seem to have that lib at all
[1:43] <ReggieUK> so what's putting the -lGLES into the configure options?
[1:43] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:43] * PiBot sets mode +v chandoo
[1:44] <ReggieUK> maybe pkg-config related and it's picked that up from your system (but you probably don't have openglES on your host
[1:44] <ShiftPlusOne> an sdl with opengl es support example
[1:44] <ReggieUK> that'd be why then
[1:44] <ReggieUK> I Think you can stop sdl building examples
[1:44] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh it's not an example included with sdl
[1:44] <ReggieUK> --disable-tests?
[1:44] <ReggieUK> ahh
[1:45] <ShiftPlusOne> it's one I am trying... which has been the whole point of this exercise.
[1:45] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:45] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-183-116-54.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] * PiBot sets mode +v nrdb
[1:45] <ReggieUK> looks like you're only part way there at the configure stage then and you need openglES from somewhere?
[1:46] <ReggieUK> seems like sdl needs recompiling with the opengles lib
[1:46] <ShiftPlusOne> it's provided with the rootfs images from raspberry pi
[1:46] <ReggieUK> ugh
[1:46] * neil__ (~neil@CPE-121-218-79-224.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:46] <ShiftPlusOne> sdl compiled fine with it. It's a modified version for pandora though
[1:47] <ShiftPlusOne> and I beleive it's for 1.1 rather than 2.0
[1:47] <ReggieUK> which is for 1.1? your example that you're testing?
[1:47] <ReggieUK> or the pandora openglES
[1:47] <ShiftPlusOne> both
[1:48] <ReggieUK> so you've got the headers for it?
[1:48] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't even know anymore
[1:48] <ReggieUK> hehehe
[1:49] <ShiftPlusOne> when you get "undefined reference to" errors, is there a way to find which lib you need?
[1:50] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-183-116-54.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:50] <ReggieUK> go back through and check dependencies, and check configure logs and tool output
[1:50] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:52] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-183-98-104.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:52] * PiBot sets mode +v nrdb
[1:52] * Ahti333 (~Ahti333@dslb-088-070-044-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:52] * PiBot sets mode +v Ahti333
[1:52] <ShiftPlusOne> is there some tool to actually check which lib provides what?
[1:52] <ReggieUK> http://www.opengl.org/wiki/Getting_started#Downloading_OpenGL
[1:52] <ReggieUK> there may well be but I am not aware of it
[1:54] <ShiftPlusOne> down to "undefined reference to `_XGetRequest'"
[1:55] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:55] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[1:58] <ShiftPlusOne> yay... compiled
[1:58] * neil__ (~neil@CPE-121-217-108-116.lnse2.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:58] * PiBot sets mode +v neil__
[1:58] <ReggieUK> :)
[1:58] <ShiftPlusOne> Though I forget why >.>
[1:59] * Jettis (~h0h0@a88-112-77-38.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Jettis
[2:00] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-183-98-104.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[2:00] * alretz (~al@72.18.121.6) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:00] * PiBot sets mode +v alretz
[2:00] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Gallomimia
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[2:00] * PiBot sets mode +v nelson
[2:01] <alretz> is there an easy way to purchase a board, i've looked on ebay...
[2:01] <Da|Mummy> yes, farnless.com
[2:01] <Da|Mummy> farnell.com
[2:01] <alretz> is that the english company?
[2:01] * cypher707 (cypher707@89-181-198-32.net.novis.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:01] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher707
[2:02] <ShiftPlusOne> it's international
[2:02] <alretz> i chatted with them and they said August
[2:02] <Da|Mummy> http://www.farnell.com/raspberrypi/
[2:02] <Da|Mummy> so whats the problem than?
[2:02] <alretz> it's the end of March
[2:03] <ShiftPlusOne> So... what you're really after is a time machine then
[2:03] <alretz> well someone must have one that they'd sell for say 2x
[2:03] <alretz> I looked on ebay
[2:03] * cypher708 (cypher707@89.181.197.207) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:04] <Da|Mummy> go ahead and buy on ebay
[2:04] <Da|Mummy> thats a secure place to buy stuff that doesnt exist
[2:04] <alretz> so no one has them yet?
[2:04] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@209.116.63.10) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[2:05] <ShiftPlusOne> not to sell, no.
[2:05] <Da|Mummy> the ones that do, paid upwards of, what was it, 13,000 british pounds?
[2:05] <alretz> yes i saw that, too
[2:05] <alretz> there were 10 original prototypes
[2:05] <SpeedEvil> Most went for 2K I think
[2:05] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
[2:06] <Da|Mummy> ahh, slightly off :|
[2:06] * Threepio (~Threepio@mail.blinkmediaworks.com) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[2:06] <SpeedEvil> I think the total may have been 13k
[2:06] <SpeedEvil> perhaps
[2:06] <Da|Mummy> so you might be able to buy it for 2x like you want, at around $5,000
[2:06] <alretz> ok, so how do 324 people come here about something no one has?
[2:07] <Da|Mummy> why are you here?
[2:07] <alretz> looking for the card
[2:07] <ShiftPlusOne> we talk about bottled water and such
[2:07] <alretz> lol
[2:07] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:08] <ShiftPlusOne> I am here to leech knowledge from people and to get a head start of development
[2:08] <ShiftPlusOne> *on
[2:08] <ReggieUK> as soon as we hit 500 we have the willpower to make pi appear
[2:08] <alretz> well it's a rather simple thing
[2:08] <Da|Mummy> we already all have the voice to do it
[2:08] <SpeedEvil> !w
[2:08] <PiBot> SpeedEvil: in Glenrothes, Fife. Temp 280K. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 76%, Later 293K - 280K. Condition: Clear.
[2:08] <alretz> the debian video I saw was about running x386 debian in a virtual machine
[2:09] <SpeedEvil> That will be comedically slow
[2:09] <SpeedEvil> It might get faster than a 386/20
[2:09] <alretz> no there's a video on how to install debian
[2:09] <alretz> so they have a windows machine and use a virtual machine
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[2:09] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[2:10] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:11] <ShiftPlusOne> why use x386? O_o
[2:11] <alretz> i assume that's all you can use in emulation or whatever
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[2:12] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[2:12] <ShiftPlusOne> you can emulate the exact cpu (arm1176jzf-s)
[2:12] <alretz> it was a windows desktop
[2:12] <alretz> somehow you have to create an image on a flash card
[2:12] <alretz> i'm thinking debian netinst disk would not work well
[2:13] <ShiftPlusOne> it works just fine
[2:13] <ShiftPlusOne> idn what videos you saw, but their methods are silly
[2:13] <alretz> you must have to boot it off the card
[2:13] <alretz> that's what it was
[2:13] <alretz> raspberry video
[2:14] <alretz> how to install debian?
[2:14] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:14] <ShiftPlusOne> you're talking about installing it on the sd card
[2:14] <ShiftPlusOne> to run on an actual pi
[2:14] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:14] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:14] <ShiftPlusOne> not to emulate
[2:14] <alretz> yes
[2:15] <ShiftPlusOne> you can also use qemu to run an extracted rootfs
[2:15] <ShiftPlusOne> but that's very limited and painfully slow
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[2:18] <ShiftPlusOne> Where does x386 come in though? You've got xorg which works fine O_o. You confuddle me, alretz.
[2:19] <alretz> in the video they demonstrated on a desktop and so ran linux in emulation on a windows box
[2:19] <alretz> which I don't think is quite what is needed
[2:19] <ShiftPlusOne> or you mean the processor... which also makes no sense.
[2:20] <alretz> they created a virtual os on a windows machine
[2:20] <alretz> forget which emulator they used
[2:20] <alretz> but it was all x86
[2:20] <alretz> debian netinst
[2:21] <ShiftPlusOne> virtualbox?
[2:22] <alretz> does that have a cube as the screen thing?
[2:22] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-217-108-116.lnse2.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:22] * PiBot sets mode +v nrdb
[2:22] <ShiftPlusOne> yes
[2:22] <alretz> that was it
[2:22] <alretz> they downloaded virtualbox and a debian cd
[2:23] <alretz> then set it up and ran the debian install, but it was all x86
[2:23] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, doesn't sound like it would help with development though
[2:23] <alretz> no
[2:23] <alretz> need an image flashed to the card
[2:23] <ShiftPlusOne> Oh... stop watching those videos.... they're stupid. You can write the image directly from windows without any of that bs.
[2:24] <alretz> lol - who uses windows
[2:24] * neil__ (~neil@CPE-121-217-108-116.lnse2.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[2:24] <ShiftPlusOne> people who need to install a VM to write a disk image
[2:24] <ShiftPlusOne> and gamers
[2:24] <alretz> i've used nothing but linux for a long long time
[2:25] <philh> that makes you better than everyone else
[2:25] <ReggieUK> oooh you must have a party to celebrate
[2:25] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[2:25] <alretz> well a debian netinst is a snap
[2:25] <ReggieUK> rightio
[2:25] <ShiftPlusOne> a waste of time actually
[2:25] <ShiftPlusOne> takes longer than a normal install
[2:26] <ReggieUK> installing most OS's is a snap
[2:26] <ShiftPlusOne> unless you have an old laptop >=/
[2:26] <alretz> debian is very nifty
[2:26] <ReggieUK> even then it's a snap just a slow snap
[2:26] <ShiftPlusOne> alretz, are you a bot?
[2:26] <ReggieUK> debian wheezy is shit
[2:26] <alretz> I have these 1 gb ssd's
[2:26] <ReggieUK> there, I've said it
[2:27] <alretz> to install linux you have to put root on the ssd and install some folders on a usb flash drive
[2:27] <alretz> debian installer does all of that
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[2:27] <ReggieUK> jesus, do you really think that no one here is aware of how to install linux?
[2:28] <ShiftPlusOne> alretz, heh.... you're trolling a lot of people right now. =)
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[2:29] <ShiftPlusOne> interesting that there are videos telling people to go through a debian netinstall in a VM just to use dd though O_o
[2:30] <alretz> no they don't even talk about writing the image
[2:30] <alretz> i'll find the video
[2:30] <philh> given any problem you can find an extremely braindead attempt to tackling it on youtube
[2:30] <philh> they'll tend to be very smug about their solution, too
[2:31] <ShiftPlusOne> oh... ok, I'll go back to trying to get opengl es to work..... you're hurting my head.
[2:31] <alretz> youtube
[2:31] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-217-108-116.lnse2.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:31] <alretz> Raspberry Pi Tutorial 1 - An Introduction to Debian Linux
[2:31] <philh> is that the website where we can find the video?
[2:32] <alretz> yeah it's on youtube
[2:32] <philh> there are these neat things called URLs, you may wish to look them up on wikipedia
[2:32] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok.... so that video has nothing to do with anything you've mentioned then.
[2:32] <alretz> 1 and 2
[2:32] <alretz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28CqDKjtppg
[2:34] <alretz> i guess there's 15 of them
[2:34] <ShiftPlusOne> so.... how about that bottled water?
[2:34] <alretz> i thought it was only 1 and 2
[2:34] <ReggieUK> alretz, teh point of it assumes that the user will have zero linux experience, therefore they will be using a windows PC by default.
[2:35] <ReggieUK> putting linux on a vm is a nice way to introduce people to linux without scaring the living crap out of them
[2:35] <alretz> they talk about the image in tutorial 8 or so
[2:36] <ShiftPlusOne> alretz, we're all up to scratch on that sort of stuff here.
[2:36] <alretz> ok so what's the quickest way to get a raspberry pi?
[2:37] <alretz> i thought they made 10,000 and sold them
[2:37] * finnx (~sheppards@99-39-251-198.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:37] * PiBot sets mode +v finnx
[2:37] <ShiftPlusOne> we've been over this
[2:38] <ShiftPlusOne> alretz, if you'd like to keep with this sort of stuff, visit the front page and follow the twitter feed.
[2:38] <alretz> ok
[2:38] <ShiftPlusOne> They started making the 10000, but the factory screwed up and soldered on a wrong part
[2:39] <ShiftPlusOne> and the distributors also want the board to go through a certification process
[2:39] <ShiftPlusOne> so there has been a few delays
[2:39] <Da|Mummy> either way, youre not getting one, and youre a month late
[2:39] <Da|Mummy> which means youre pregnant, and youre getting yours in 8 months from now
[2:40] <shirro> alretz: There could be some sort of announcement today/tommorrow (bloody timezones) which might be an update on where the boards are, or not.
[2:40] <ShiftPlusOne> sorry, we didn't make up the rules.
[2:40] * amphetamine (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:40] <ShiftPlusOne> Da|Mummy did.
[2:40] <alretz> ok thanks
[2:40] * amphetamine (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:40] <Da|Mummy> i am the ruler
[2:40] <alretz> is there any info on the b boards?
[2:40] <Da|Mummy> and abortion shall be illegal
[2:40] <Da|Mummy> yes, the 10k are b boards
[2:41] <Da|Mummy> and the include an ethernet port and 2usb ports
[2:41] <Da|Mummy> that is the info
[2:41] <shirro> Or the 1950 that survived rework
[2:41] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
[2:41] <alretz> that's crazy they should just sell them
[2:41] <ShiftPlusOne> alretz, sure, but they'd need to make them first
[2:41] <Da|Mummy> they did
[2:41] <ShiftPlusOne> shh
[2:42] <Da|Mummy> jeez its like talking to a 12 year old
[2:42] <ShiftPlusOne> you might be
[2:42] * alretz (~al@72.18.121.6) has left #raspberrypi
[2:42] <ShiftPlusOne> I'd bet around 15 though
[2:42] <ReggieUK> better not be, teaching us about linux :D
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[2:44] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[2:44] <mkopack> ok, taxes done...
[2:44] <mkopack> $1800 return between state and fed...
[2:45] <ShiftPlusOne> yay.... you get the interest free loan back.
[2:45] <mkopack> That would ALMOSt pay off the motorcycle??? Not sure if I'm going to do that or use it to pay down the credit card??? probably should use it for that...
[2:45] <ShiftPlusOne> motorcycle? what motorcycle?
[2:45] <mkopack> yeah, well, I already do a 4 on my W4??? I don't dare go any higher??? Being single, owning a house...
[2:45] <mkopack> 2007 CBR600RR - Blue and Silver
[2:46] <ShiftPlusOne> nice
[2:46] <mkopack> yeah, thinking I might ride to work tomorrow. Need to check the weather report
[2:46] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... might go for a ride now.
[2:47] <ShiftPlusOne> !w
[2:47] <PiBot> ShiftPlusOne: in Seaford, VIC on Wed Mar 28 16:00:00 2012. Temp 18??C. Condition: Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 73%.
[2:47] <PiBot> Thu: High 25??C Low 12??C :Condition Mostly Sunny
[2:47] <PiBot> Fri: High 27??C Low 17??C :Condition Mostly Sunny
[2:47] <PiBot> Sat: High 26??C Low 11??C :Condition Mostly Sunny
[2:47] <PiBot> Wed: High 22??C Low 11??C :Condition Fog
[2:47] <mkopack> I coiuld do that as well.. it is bike night at Hooters.
[2:47] <mkopack> !
[2:47] <mkopack> !w
[2:47] <mkopack> weather 30096
[2:47] <ShiftPlusOne> fail =)
[2:47] <mkopack> dammit!
[2:47] <mkopack> !w 30096
[2:47] <PiBot> mkopack: in Duluth, GA on Tue Mar 27 23:53:00 2012. Temp 22??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 39%, Later 23??C - 12??C. Condition: Clear.
[2:48] <ShiftPlusOne> may as well test out the helmet cam
[2:49] <ShiftPlusOne> actually nuh, screw it
[2:51] <mkopack> did you get the go pro?
[2:51] <mkopack> or the contour?
[2:51] <ShiftPlusOne> drift hd
[2:52] <mkopack> man, maybe I'll use the federal return to pay down the Visa a bit, and use the state to rent a dirt bike and go ride some dirt one Sunday soon??? I've been DIEING to ride dirt again, especially after watching SX
[2:52] <mkopack> I sold my dirt bike about a year and a half ago because I never had time to go ride thanks to grad school???
[2:53] <ShiftPlusOne> I've been wanting to buy a KTM for dirt riding. Then I saw the prices. =/
[2:53] <mkopack> yeah, I'd LOVE to get one of the KTM 350's. but yeah, I'm NOT paying more for a dirt bike than I paid for my street bike!
[2:54] <ShiftPlusOne> and their dealerships are run by jerks.... wouldn't put a tyre on for me just because I don't have a KTM =(
[2:54] <mkopack> yeah, F them
[2:54] <mkopack> I'll probably end up with another Honda, or a Yamaha.. I've bought all but 1 of my bikes from the same saleslady at the same dealership and they carry both
[2:55] <ShiftPlusOne> you buy from a dealership? O_o
[2:55] <mkopack> yeah, I always have to finance
[2:55] * Winslow (Winslow@c-98-223-104-33.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:55] <ShiftPlusOne> oh right.... knowing the sorts of clubs you visit, no wonder you got swindled so many times by a saleslady.
[2:56] <ShiftPlusOne> >.>
[2:56] <ShiftPlusOne> <.<
[2:56] <mkopack> And they actually give better deals on rate than my CU
[2:57] <mkopack> I might go used this time on dirt though??? I don't like buying used vehicles in general. No matter how much you check them out, you never know what the previous idiot(s) did to it
[2:57] <ShiftPlusOne> I dunno.... it's silly to buy new bikes in my opinion
[2:57] <mkopack> Anyhow, I'm off??? friends want to play Supreme Command 2 with me so I need to reboot
[2:57] <mkopack> To each their own...
[2:57] <mkopack> Catch ya later man
[2:57] <ShiftPlusOne> 'night
[2:57] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
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[3:05] <sco`> so what are the stocks like?? .. iv got my second email saying its nice that i registered interest .... anyone know if i should expect this year or next >>??
[3:06] <ReggieUK> this
[3:06] <sco`> cool :>
[3:06] * uen (~uen@p5DCB3203.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[3:08] <sco`> so i take it lots of people have got theirs already ??
[3:09] <sco`> is there gana be some kind of showcase where people can share what they have created..
[3:09] <ShiftPlusOne> nooooooo no no
[3:11] <bikcmp> NEWS FLASH: RASPBERRY PI IS A SCAM.
[3:11] <bikcmp> you all really think you're going to get a computer for 35 dollars? HAHAHAHAHAHA
[3:11] <sco`> for who ?
[3:11] * bikcmp ducks
[3:11] <ReggieUK> knobhead
[3:12] <sco`> ah man, i sence someone has spend a little too much sweetie money on a new supper dupper pc ,, now the thought of one for 1/100 of the price, jealous ???
[3:12] * koda (~vittorio@host129-223-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: koda)
[3:13] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[3:13] <ShiftPlusOne> sco`, nope, people just like to troll round these here parts.
[3:13] * bikcmp was kicked from #raspberrypi by IT_Sean
[3:13] <ShiftPlusOne> The fuhrer is here! =D
[3:13] <IT_Sean> Oh?
[3:13] <IT_Sean> Where!?
[3:14] <sco`> oh well. life goes on
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[3:16] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, how did you normally get around pkg-config problems?
[3:18] * linlin (linlin@173.243.115.75) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:18] <ShiftPlusOne> oh... dammit... it's right there in --help again... overriding pkg-config >.>
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[3:21] <ReggieUK> in general it's finding the cross compiled version of the pkg-config file that gets placed in the rootfs
[3:22] <ReggieUK> and poking that
[3:22] <ReggieUK> some things you may be able to force
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[3:22] <ReggieUK> like SDL_CONFIG=/some/ridiculously/obscure/pathname/sdl-config
[3:23] <ShiftPlusOne> hm
[3:23] <ReggieUK> which in theory should be picked up by other libs that rely on sdl
[3:24] <ShiftPlusOne> but you're not an sb2 user?
[3:24] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:24] <ReggieUK> nope not yet :D
[3:24] <ReggieUK> I might've used it on the leapfrog stuff at one point or another (went through a few build systems before we settled on ridgerun)
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[3:26] * DeviceZer0 (~hate@unaffiliated/devicezer0) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[3:27] <ShiftPlusOne> ridgerun ey?
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[3:27] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[3:28] <ReggieUK> http://www.ridgerun.com/
[3:28] * eighty9vision (~89vision@144.35.27.51) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[3:28] <ReggieUK> ridgerun was the compiler we settled on but we went through a few build systems before we found that
[3:29] <ReggieUK> one of the build systems would've involved scratchbox
[3:30] <ReggieUK> http://elinux.org/Didj_Kernel_Build_Environment
[3:31] <ReggieUK> http://elinux.org/Didj_Build_Environment
[3:31] <ReggieUK> http://elinux.org/Didj_crosstool-NG_Build_Environment
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[3:33] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
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[3:36] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, if I use env variables to set paths for libs or something like that, should that be relative to the host or the rootfs?
[3:38] <ukscone> dpends on mapping mode
[3:39] <ukscone> if you do it without a mapping mode then it's host, in emul and/or fakroot then rootfs
[3:39] <ShiftPlusOne> so... if I specified them relative to the rootfs and it's compiling, then it will produce garbage?
[3:41] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[3:41] <ukscone> mompls let me sit up
[3:42] <ShiftPlusOne> eep, nuh don't bother too much with this
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[3:43] <ukscone> sorry was lying down watching something on the computer so i wasn't watching the chat window
[3:43] <ukscone> ok so you aren't adding things like freetype using the arch pakg manager
[3:43] <ukscone> ?
[3:44] <ukscone> you are building them yourself?
[3:44] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[3:45] <ukscone> ok and you need to add paths to some thingss and avoid using configure and pkg-config?
[3:45] <ShiftPlusOne> for large packages it's kind of hard to avoid O_o
[3:46] <ukscone> if you use simple mapping (the default) then you use host paths a la --sysroot for gcc
[3:47] <ukscone> if you use -R (fakeroot) theen you use rootfs paths
[3:47] <ShiftPlusOne> sb2 FREETYPE_LIBS="-lfreetype" FREETYPE_CFLAGS="-I/home/shift/dev/archlinuxarm-01-03-2012/rootfs/usr/include/freetype2" LIBPNG_CFLAGS="-I/home/shift/dev/archlinuxarm-01-03-2012/rootfs/usr/include/libpng15" LIBPNG_LIBS="-lpng15" ./configure --prefix=/usr --with-gfxdrivers=none
[3:47] <ShiftPlusOne> that should be right then?
[3:47] <ukscone> emulate mode just means don't use binaries from the host instead use them from the rootfs
[3:48] <ukscone> yes that looks about right although i have had some probs with envars before the configure before but most of the time it works
[3:48] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[3:49] <ShiftPlusOne> alright, thanks
[3:51] <ReggieUK> configure is a law unto itself and you can find just as many env var style stuff that goes after the ./configure as after it
[3:51] <ukscone> yup
[3:51] <ReggieUK> so always do ./configure --help
[3:52] <ShiftPlusOne> getting an undefined reference to `__sqrt_finite' now =/ hmm
[3:52] <ReggieUK> if it doesn't compile straight away with standard build options that is my first port of call
[3:52] <ReggieUK> math.h?
[3:52] <ReggieUK> ahh
[3:53] <ReggieUK> stdc
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[3:55] <ReggieUK> meh, it's one of those 2 :)
[3:55] <ReggieUK> -lm missing somewhere perhaps?
[3:56] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[3:56] <ShiftPlusOne> not sure how to fix that though
[3:57] <ShiftPlusOne> I'll just check if I get the same error when using -eR and if so, mess around with the makefile
[3:57] * Milos|Netbook (Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[4:00] <ReggieUK> if all else fails, provide a definition and the code somewhere where it can find it easily :D
[4:01] <ReggieUK> its ugly but if it works, then it's valid until you can figure out what's really wrong
[4:01] <ShiftPlusOne> hm
[4:02] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[4:02] <ShiftPlusOne> also regarding directfb... how would it know how to communicate with the hardware? or does it communicate through the kernel, so it doesn't need to know the specifics of the framebuffer?
[4:02] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:03] <ReggieUK> umm, i don't think I ever used directfb, I got it compiled for leapfrog but never used it
[4:03] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[4:03] <ReggieUK> I believe it needs an underlying framebuffer device
[4:03] <ShiftPlusOne> so... if you used SDL, what did SDL use to render? wouldn't it have been directfb?
[4:03] <ReggieUK> nope, direct to /dev/fb0
[4:03] <ShiftPlusOne> oh =/
[4:04] <ShiftPlusOne> well.... isn't SDL clever then =/
[4:04] <ReggieUK> indeeeed it is :)
[4:04] <ReggieUK> but SDL is only about 1/10th of the SDL family of libs
[4:04] <ReggieUK> the fun starts when you start chucking all the other sdl libs in the mix
[4:05] <ShiftPlusOne> you mean also sdl-image, sdl-net sdl-* and so on?
[4:05] <ReggieUK> yup
[4:05] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't remember sdl-image being a pain
[4:05] <ReggieUK> it's not, I said fun :D
[4:05] <ShiftPlusOne> and sdl-ttf or whatever it was called
[4:06] <ShiftPlusOne> and sound.... haven't needed any of the others yet.
[4:06] <ReggieUK> sdl_gfx will be something you'll probably use
[4:06] <ReggieUK> and maybe mixer
[4:06] <ShiftPlusOne> gfx? not with opengl es, afaik.
[4:07] <ReggieUK> ahh, I forgot about gles
[4:07] <ReggieUK> I don't think we used it for most of the stuff we had
[4:08] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah that's my whole thing right now... get gles working emulated under x86 and also compilable for arm.
[4:08] <ReggieUK> grizzly did some demos I think
[4:08] <ReggieUK> but I don't remember it being via sdl
[4:09] <ShiftPlusOne> and then if possible get someone with a board to see if it works at all.
[4:09] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: coming in late in the convo but I have compiled gles stuff on my desktop using mesa
[4:10] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, I am leaving desktop till last, since that seems the easiest part
[4:10] <ShiftPlusOne> *like
[4:10] <ReggieUK> from memory, openglES is very SoC specific
[4:10] <ReggieUK> I don't believe we even got close to source code for it
[4:11] <ShiftPlusOne> we've got the headers and libs... so that's something
[4:11] <ReggieUK> that's enough then
[4:11] <ShiftPlusOne> something to build against anyway.... you'd hope they're close enough to specs
[4:11] <ReggieUK> just stuck with however they configured it
[4:12] <ReggieUK> can't remember the name of the tool but in theory we should be able to poke the lib and find out how it was configured
[4:12] <ShiftPlusOne> what do you mean by how it was configured though?
[4:13] <ReggieUK> as in how it was configured when it was compiled, as in ./configure
[4:13] <ShiftPlusOne> is that relevant to opengl though? I figured opengl is something you just use rather than worry about how it was configured
[4:14] <ShiftPlusOne> and just hope it's all to spec and doesn't do any wacky stuff
[4:14] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: Gallomimia)
[4:15] <ReggieUK> I'm not sure as I'm not familiar with using opengl, but as you mentioned having headers and lib then we can indeed compile stuff but if we come up against issues that should work, then knowing how it was configured could save hours of heartache figuring out it's never going to work
[4:16] <ShiftPlusOne> not sure how applicable that is to opengl
[4:18] <shirro> gles should be same-ish everywhere. I only expect the setup EGL etc and the extensions to differ. But I am a total newbie to gles so who knows? I was going to play with it on this board then I went and installed armhf and the proprietary crap is all softfp. Silly me.
[4:20] <shirro> at least the broadcom/rpf people are providing both
[4:20] <ShiftPlusOne> which board?
[4:20] <shirro> freescale mx35 quick start
[4:20] <ShiftPlusOne> ah
[4:20] <shirro> the graphics look sucky but I do have a SATA drive plugged in which is cool
[4:21] <ShiftPlusOne> can't have cool without SATA
[4:22] * eighty9vision (~89vision@144.35.27.51) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:22] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: were you working on a board as well or all emulation?
[4:22] <ShiftPlusOne> all emulation
[4:23] <ShiftPlusOne> I'll just give up soon and go back to waiting for the real hardware
[4:23] <ReggieUK> I have zero gles experience either, just basing things on my experience of other libs
[4:23] <ShiftPlusOne> but I come back to emulation once in a while to see if I have any luck getting anything working
[4:24] <ShiftPlusOne> (I never do, but the experience helps)
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[4:24] <ReggieUK> it should be the 2nd easiest place to build next to onboard the pi itself
[4:24] <ReggieUK> emulation that is
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[4:25] <shirro> I have headers and libs for native gles2 here if I boot to another root filesystem. I haven't got to play with that yet. The demos seemed sluggish compared to what I have seen on the Pi videos.
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[4:25] <ReggieUK> I think I setup a debian vm for the pi a few months back and got qemu running on it
[4:25] <ReggieUK> but haven't looked at it since
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[4:26] <ReggieUK> pi took too long, I get sidetracked, no point learning about it all and forgetting 3/4s of it
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[4:27] <ReggieUK> which reminds me I need to sort some patches out for that sidtracking I did :D
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[4:28] <shirro> I might compare the headers freescale ships with those for the pi and try compiling a little gles tutorial example for each. I just want to get my kernel sorted and distcc working before I settle down for a proper play
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[4:36] * Burninate_afk is now known as Burninate_
[4:37] <ShiftPlusOne> yay... directfb compiled, though again, I forget why
[4:38] <ShiftPlusOne> But you were right Reg, just needed to add -lm in a makefile
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[4:42] <[deXter]> Woah, what
[4:42] <[deXter]> 's with all those timeouts?
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[4:45] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, nice :)
[4:45] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:45] * PiBot sets mode +v passstab
[4:45] <passstab> hiall
[4:45] <[deXter]> Hi passstab
[4:45] <ShiftPlusOne> and I think I might just move on to SDL 1.3 and save myself some trouble
[4:45] <ShiftPlusOne> hopefuly
[4:45] <ReggieUK> :)
[4:46] <ShiftPlusOne> so far "saving myself some trouble" has just meant opening another can of worms, heh
[4:46] <[deXter]> Hey !, what's new?
[4:48] <[deXter]> You don't recognise your own name? :P
[4:48] <ShiftPlusOne> I did, I was just in shock that someone understood
[4:48] <[deXter]> ;)
[4:48] * PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:49] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[4:49] <ShiftPlusOne> but yeah, not much. just messing around with scratchbox2
[4:49] <[deXter]> oh, nice.
[4:50] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[5:04] <ReggieUK> I'm off to bed, g'night guys, good luck with the sdl/gles stuff ShiftPlusOne :)
[5:05] <ShiftPlusOne> 'night
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[5:43] <ShiftPlusOne> anyone with a board on?
[5:54] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: Quiet. They are all sleeping. Why do you need a board?
[5:54] <ShiftPlusOne> to see if any of my witchcraft has worked
[5:54] * techman2 (6e8e80a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.110.142.128.166) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:54] * PiBot sets mode +v techman2
[5:54] <shirro> what have you been busy compiling today?
[5:55] <ShiftPlusOne> got libSDL_gles.o compiled, but no idea if it's actually functional
[5:55] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't know... started with pandora's SDL_gles, then directfb, then maemo's sdl_gles
[5:55] <ShiftPlusOne> settle's on maemo's
[5:56] <ShiftPlusOne> *settled
[5:57] <ShiftPlusOne> and * libSDL_gles.so
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[5:57] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[5:58] <techman2> morning all
[5:58] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning sir
[5:58] <shirro> arvo
[5:58] <mkopack> morning tech
[5:59] <shirro> Do we have Australia covered now?
[6:00] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, you said you got egl working with mesa, yeah?
[6:00] <techman2> shirro: australia covered?
[6:00] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4d0c1eb9.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[6:01] <shirro> yep. i worked through a few tutorials. mesa installed headers for egl, opengles etc and it all seemed to work
[6:01] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:01] <shirro> I reckon you might possibly be able to get opengles stuff going under sb2 with it
[6:02] <shirro> or not
[6:02] <ShiftPlusOne> alright, I'll give it a go as well... I was going to use an SDK package from PowerVR, but it might be overkill.
[6:02] <shirro> techman2: from east to west.
[6:02] <techman2> ah yes
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[6:02] * PiBot sets mode +v oberling
[6:02] <techman2> I would say so
[6:04] <shirro> Hoping there will be raspberrypi miniconfs at OSDC and linux.conf.au. arduino has been very popular at them
[6:04] <techman2> this looks interesting: http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/532332455-Mele-A1000-TV-box-Allwinner-A10-hackable-device-wholesalers.html
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[6:07] * PiBot sets mode +v phi-
[6:07] <ShiftPlusOne> anyone who knows how makefiles work? what's this gibberish? $@ $^
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[6:12] * PiBot sets mode +v sajimon
[6:12] <shirro> target and dependencies. all very perl-ish isn't it
[6:12] * wjoe (~joe@lc8n.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:14] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, thanks
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[6:18] * PiBot sets mode +v PhonicUK
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[6:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[6:21] <techman2> so still waiting on this annoucement hey?
[6:22] <techman2> announcement even
[6:24] <mkopack> yup, still a whole lot of "hurry up and wait"
[6:24] <techman2> heh
[6:24] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[6:24] * PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[6:24] <techman2> guess there's a lot more red tape and protocol that the distributors introduce.
[6:26] <techman2> liz seemed pretty keen to announce whatever it was
[6:26] <techman2> I'm guessing it relates to the 2k that have been shipped
[6:27] <techman2> there's some slight hinting towards things being better than they've made out but who knows.
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[6:27] * PiBot sets mode +v PhonicUK
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[6:35] * PiBot sets mode +v wjoe
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[6:38] <ShiftPlusOne> =D
[6:38] <ShiftPlusOne> =D
[6:38] * cypher707 (cypher707@89.181.198.224) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[6:39] <ShiftPlusOne> =D-/-<
[6:39] <ShiftPlusOne> =D-|-<
[6:39] <ShiftPlusOne> =D-\-<
[6:39] <ShiftPlusOne> success!
[6:39] <ShiftPlusOne> opengl es and sdl 1.2 working fine in x86 using mesa's libs
[6:40] <ShiftPlusOne> and the same file compiles for raspberry pi... no idea if it works though
[6:40] * Milos|Netbook (Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[6:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[6:42] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, thanks for the mesa tip.... works much better than the PowerVG stuff
[6:42] <shirro> excellent
[6:48] <ShiftPlusOne> someone should take a pi, run an ssh server and les us test builds on it =(
[6:49] <ShiftPlusOne> *let.... I can't type today =/
[6:50] <techman2> I had a bad typing day yesterday.
[6:50] <techman2> today is a bad staying awake day.
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[6:59] * Milos|Netbook_ (Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:00] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
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[7:06] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[7:06] <techman2> wb shirro
[7:07] <shirro> if I get my pi before any of you I will put it on an ip address, hook up a webcam and you can play with it until July
[7:08] <shirro> hi techman2: had to do the school run. so domesticated.
[7:08] <techman2> heheh
[7:08] <techman2> that'll be me in less than a year.
[7:08] <techman2> all going to plan of course.
[7:09] * Milos|Netbook_ (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:12] <techman2> shirro: you'll get pi before I do :(
[7:12] <ShiftPlusOne> (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/175702/gles2 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/vc/lib ./gles2)
[7:12] <ShiftPlusOne> ignore that, just being lazy and saving it for reference in the chatlogs >.>
[7:13] <shirro> So I won't run it then. Would have to recompile to get it working with my gles libs anyway.
[7:14] <ShiftPlusOne> that and it's compiled for arm
[7:15] <shirro> thats ok. armv6 will run on armv7 just fine
[7:15] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, forgot you've got the board
[7:15] <ShiftPlusOne> though why would you need to recompile if it's dynamically linked?
[7:16] <ShiftPlusOne> and does your board support Open GL ES 2.0 or only 1.1?
[7:16] <shirro> It aren't dynamically linked to my libs which are likely different versions etc. I could probably compile it and run it here.
[7:16] <shirro> It aren't - typo day!
[7:17] * UnCO (~UnCO@121.204.185.95) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:17] <huene> !w
[7:17] <PiBot> huene: in Linz, Upper Austria. Temp 6??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 76%, Later 21??C - 8??C. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
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[7:18] <mpthompson> Shirro, nice to see you on chat. How is your mx53 QSB coming along? Have you got your cross compile environment worked out?
[7:19] <shirro> nearly. kids have been getting in the way. I just keep tweaking to get stuff how I want it
[7:19] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: both
[7:19] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, you understand I will now be bugging you for stuff....
[7:20] <shirro> I have only tried the demos under glx which the Pi will not have. I want to compile something with EGL and run it from the console
[7:20] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[7:21] <shirro> Judging my the "accellerated" X on the mx53 I wouldn't be waiting for it to arrive on the Pi. Not considering how sweet qmlviewer stuff looks on the console
[7:21] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, you've got sb2 setup and everything?
[7:22] <shirro> I set up sb2 then forgot about it and never really used it. mpthompson and I are both into hardfloat stuff.
[7:22] <mpthompson> I'm starting to pound away on the debian armhf packages for armv6+vfp. Binutils is taking me already 6+ hours to compile and I don't know how close to the end I'm at.
[7:23] <shirro> mpthompson: when I have finished playing around a bit I might be able to lend you remote access to mine
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[7:23] <mpthompson> gcc takes 24+ hours and I have to do it again because of armv7 leakage from some static linking. However, I'm now on top of the issue and can verify whether a package built armv6 clean in an automated manner.
[7:23] <shirro> mpthompson: though transferring files to Aus and back will kill you as much as the cpu
[7:24] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, have you got SDL dev libs installed on your board?
[7:24] <shirro> mpthompson: yes I have lost track of the number of kernels I compiled on it. I knew it was silly not to cross compile but I thought it was a good stress test of the hardware
[7:24] <mpthompson> I think so. I may have to ask my wife about purchasing a few more mx53s. She'll just roll her eyes.
[7:25] <mpthompson> I believe I probably went through 40+ compiles to get things working. Good practice for when the RPi gets here. :-)
[7:25] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: On another image. It is mounted so I can probably chroot and run something. I am currently running a hardfloat abi userspace which is incompatable with the blobs
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[7:26] <mpthompson> I have a quadcore desktop system that I may enroll in the build process. I can probabably get up to 4 QEMU sessions going. It will emulate slow, but probably be about as fast as actually compiling on the RPi.
[7:27] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, I am getting the source seperate from all the irrelevant crap and backtracing what I've done, so I can give you just the source
[7:28] * techman2 (6e8e80a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.110.142.128.166) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[7:28] <mpthompson> BTW, I was looking at those Mele A1000's linked earlier in chat. With a 1 GHz processor, 512K ram and real SATA they wouldn't be too bad for creating a RPi hardfloat build farm.
[7:29] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: Ok, I can reboot as well and try it properly on the default image later. I don't know if it would get much beyond building in the current environment. I am torn between setting it up as a pure debian buildbox like mpthompson or having it as a big raspberry pi emulator with gles etc.
[7:29] <shirro> mpthompson: yeah, but I would want to follow in someone else's footsteps
[7:31] <shirro> I told my wife I could use the mx53 as a mythfrontend for the kids. Forgot neither it or the Pi do mpeg2.
[7:31] <mpthompson> Someone is working on an Ubuntu port and breaking ground on it. If they get it working, won't be too bad. They are less than 1/2 the cost of the MX53 QSB. They could pound out the small packages and leave the big stuff or a handful of other more powerful stuff.
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[7:32] <mpthompson> Given my experience now of working with the MX53 QSB, I really have to wonder what compiling will be like on the RPi. VERY SLOW!!! I have some other ARM systems with similar performance and a kernel compile is an overnight affair.
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[7:33] <shirro> It will run snake in python. Anything more is a waste for its intended purpose
[7:33] <mpthompson> I've concluded the RPi is not where you want to build things if you can avoid it. I'll hold off final judgment until I get real hardware, whenever that will be.
[7:34] <shirro> mpthompson: I worked that one out early. They really need an SoC with the same videocore chip but with a faster arm core and more memory.
[7:35] <mpthompson> Yeah, my longer term goal is to put together some Ruby Gosu tutorials to use for teaching game programming. It should be sufficient for that. I'm keeping it's intended purpose well in perspective.
[7:37] <mpthompson> I suspect that we'll see a rash of Pi clones coming out from China within 6 to 12 months from now. Some perhaps will be using the same SOC, other will try to using other SOC that may be more open. We'll see.
[7:37] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/175702/gles2.tar.gz if you get a chance.
[7:37] <shirro> there is room for a machine which is binary compatible but with more grunt for developers and it can go way outside their desired $25/$35 price.
[7:38] <mpthompson> Agreed. Love to see one at 1GHz and 1GB and a $120 price point. It would be well worth it for people who want to do more serious development for the system.
[7:39] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: what are the sdl dependencies?
[7:40] <ShiftPlusOne> just sdl 1.2
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[7:41] <shirro> does sdl1.2 come prepackaged with gles on ubuntu/debian or do I have to build from source?
[7:42] <ShiftPlusOne> not with gles... 1.2 is incompatible with gles, this is my attempt to get sdl 1.2 working with gles.
[7:42] <ShiftPlusOne> but you don't have to build sdl from source
[7:42] <shirro> ok. sorry I get it
[7:44] <ShiftPlusOne> and by 'my attempt' I mean I stole the source files from maemo.
[7:44] <mpthompson> Shirro, do you know if our MX53's are running at 800Mhz or at 1Ghz. Mine is in a middle of a compile now so I can bring it down to check the clock settings in u-boot. I saw some patches for 1Ghz and I was wondering if I should apply them.
[7:45] <shirro> sometimes it feels fast and sometimes slow depending on the image I boot. I have been wondering.
[7:46] <mpthompson> I've been so busy tyring just to get something stable running on it I haven't paid attention to the performance. However, now that I'm starting compiles, an extra 20% would make a difference.
[7:47] <mpthompson> dmesg isn't telling me much. I believe the patches were for u-boot where the clocks are set up.
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[8:02] <shirro> ok, back. irc died on the mac. lets see if this gles demo can make some smoke come out
[8:02] <shirro> btw it is 999.42 under /proc/cpuinfo
[8:03] <shirro> red triangle
[8:03] <shirro> no compile errors
[8:03] <ShiftPlusOne> really? just like that?
[8:03] <shirro> yep
[8:04] <ShiftPlusOne> awesome
[8:04] <ShiftPlusOne> thanks
[8:06] <mpthompson> Is BogoMIPS the clock speed? If so, mine is at 795.44.
[8:06] <ShiftPlusOne> and it all compiles for x86 the same way =)
[8:06] <shirro> It opened in a window (running under X). Shall I try it in a console
[8:06] <ShiftPlusOne> worth a shot
[8:07] <shirro> mpthompson: you might want to fix that if you are going to be building much
[8:07] <shirro> ok, here goes. this doesn't always get back into X
[8:07] <mpthompson> Yep. I'll be looking into it first thing tommorow. It's too dangerous for me to start at 11:00 at night. :-)
[8:10] <shirro> init kbd.
[8:10] <shirro> init mouse failed.
[8:10] <shirro> gles2: gles2.c:112: main: Assertion `res == 0' failed.
[8:10] <ShiftPlusOne> does your SDL build support the framebuffer?
[8:11] <shirro> probably not. just checking
[8:11] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, it should be just a matter of reconfiguring and recompiling SDL
[8:12] <ShiftPlusOne> Anyway, thanks for the help
[8:12] <ShiftPlusOne> Up next... cegui =D
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[8:13] <shirro> ldd shows gles2 is linked with libdirectfb
[8:14] <ShiftPlusOne> I think it's more a matter of what SDL supports
[8:14] <ShiftPlusOne> and it's a fail on "SDL_Init(SDL_INIT_VIDEO | SDL_INIT_TIMER);" so, gles doesn't have much to do with it.
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[8:20] <shirro_> mpthompson: do you know which jack is audio out on this thing?
[8:21] <mpthompson> shirro, what kernel are you running on your MX53 QSB for 1 Ghz? Is it 2.6.25?
[8:21] <shirro_> .35 yes
[8:21] <mpthompson> Sorry, no I don't. I have the tech reference manual open. Let me check.
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[8:22] <ShiftPlusOne> jesus.... these things are expensive
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[8:22] <mpthompson> Well, it looks like J6 is Audio input, J18 is audio output. Let me find another reference for that though.
[8:23] <mpthompson> J6 is closest to the Ethernet/USB ports.
[8:24] <mpthompson> Yep, Headphone Output Connector (J18). That is the connector closest to the power input.
[8:25] <ShiftPlusOne> is this the board you're talking about? http://au.element14.com/freescale-semiconductor/mcimx53-start/kit-development-i-mx53/dp/1876990
[8:25] <shirro_> going to test sdl with some doom
[8:26] <mpthompson> Hmmm, I guess I'll have to go back to the 2.6.35 kernel. I need those extra 200 MHz... Oh well, no big lose. I'll get back USB and console.
[8:27] <shirro_> I can't seem to get USB in my builds
[8:29] <mpthompson> I've tested keyboard, mouse and hard drives under USB on my source. It was all working. I was using the stuff from the Freescale BSP which is a whole mish-mash of patches and stuff. It was amazing I was able to get anything to run from their sources.
[8:30] <shirro_> once I set SDL_NOMOUSE it loaded prboom. unfortunately mymonitor didn't like the mode and turdned off. but it sounds about right
[8:30] <mpthompson> Tomorrow I can look into getting a tar file for you to grab if you want to try out my sources.
[8:31] <shirro_> I had the 11.09.01 tag or whatever from their git and backed out a clock patch and added a syscall for udev to work under debian testing
[8:32] <shirro_> I wonder if u-boot is killing it somehow
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[8:34] <mpthompson> Don't know. u-boot and kernel interactions seem to be a big mystery. Saying there is a lack of coordination between the two is putting it mildly.
[8:34] <shirro_> mpthompson; can you get yours to come up in SXGA?
[8:35] <shirro_> best thing the pi has done is have a simple bootloader. options in a text file.
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[8:35] <mpthompson> SXGA? Is that a resolution? I think mine comes up at 1280x1024 which is the resolution of my LCD monitor. But I could be wrong. I never really looked at it other than to note that I get output on VGA with 2.6.35.
[8:36] <ShiftPlusOne> 'night
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[8:36] <shirro_> I would kill for 1280x1024. I am stuck with 1024x768
[8:37] <shirro_> I want to play with stuff like ShiftPlusOne's opengles and blurry display is annoying me
[8:37] <mpthompson> Honestly, I don't know. It could be the lower resolution as I just didn't check it. I don't think mine would be any different.
[8:38] <shirro_> I wondered if it might be my vga monitor being fussy over timings. I am down to last one - house is full of laptops and gadgets now.
[8:38] <mpthompson> Have you tried posting stuff to the IMX Community. Supposedly that is the site where iMX53 users help each other out and Freescale has people from the dev team monitoring the site.
[8:39] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[8:40] <shirro_> Not yet. Might get to it later.
[8:40] <mpthompson> Have you tried booting the Ubuntu image and seeing if you can reconfigure it's display using the Gnome tools?
[8:41] <mpthompson> That is the supposedly "supported" release so if it can't get to 1280x1024, it probably can't be done.
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[8:41] <shirro_> tried that and randr. also tried uboot config changing VGA-XGA to VGA-SXGA but my monitor comes up with invalid timing message
[8:41] <shirro_> Might try the vga input on the tv later
[8:42] <shirro_> have to go to family stuff. i'll be back later
[8:43] <mpthompson> OK, I'm heading off to bed. Good luck with finding the SXGA settings.
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[8:50] <mikey_w> I just ordered one.
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[8:52] <weuxel> What?
[8:53] <mikey_w> A raspberrypi
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[9:26] <Mowee> Morning
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[9:55] <ahven> the last blogpost comments are intersting
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[9:56] <ahven> interesting even, like "you will probably get your pi in september" :)
[10:10] <weuxel> Would not be _that_ much of a problem, but i allready bought the whole shebang of peripherals, which is now slowly covering with dust :-(
[10:20] <ahven> luckily I don't have time until june or july for that kind of things, so nothing bought yet at this side, even not a hdmi-dvi cable, let alone a SD card :P
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[10:44] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-2-45-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[10:54] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:54] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[10:58] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:00] * Hexxeh (u1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqmfrljzzqufebqc) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:02] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:02] * PiBot sets mode +v M0GHY
[11:04] * smjms (~janne@pdpc/supporter/student/kosiini) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:04] * PiBot sets mode +v smjms
[11:05] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:05] * PiBot sets mode +v katnegermis
[11:09] * Hexxeh (u1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-giuztyijeiresosg) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:09] * PiBot sets mode +v Hexxeh
[11:13] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:13] * PiBot sets mode +v MystX
[11:14] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128179182.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:14] * PiBot sets mode +v lars_t_h
[11:15] * Martix (~martix@cst-prg-176-17.cust.vodafone.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[11:15] * Martix (~martix@cst-prg-17-246.cust.vodafone.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:15] * PiBot sets mode +v Martix
[11:16] * blue2 (easyjet@otitsun.oulu.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[11:17] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:17] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[11:18] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:20] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:20] * PiBot sets mode +v mchou
[11:23] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-36-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:29] * netcarver (~netcarver@host86-168-18-106.range86-168.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:29] * PiBot sets mode +v netcarver
[11:36] <RaTTuS|BIG> I , offically, hate ipads...
[11:36] <lennard> and unofficially?
[11:37] <RaTTuS|BIG> really really loath them
[11:37] <Space_Man> you could make yourself a raspberry pad
[11:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes
[11:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> wont be as thin but ......
[11:40] * Martix (~martix@cst-prg-17-246.cust.vodafone.cz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:40] <RaTTuS|BIG> it wont be made my apple ...
[11:40] <RaTTuS|BIG> just need to set this one up and pass it to a developer ....
[11:42] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:42] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[11:44] * felgru (~felgru@xdsl-78-35-209-214.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:44] * PiBot sets mode +v felgru
[11:46] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-09.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:46] * PiBot sets mode +v MikeJ1971
[11:52] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:01] * discom34tz (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:01] * PiBot sets mode +v discom34tz
[12:02] * discom34tz (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Client Quit)
[12:04] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:04] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[12:05] * smjms (~janne@pdpc/supporter/student/kosiini) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[12:08] * zleap (~psutton@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:08] * PiBot sets mode +v zleap
[12:11] * Kostic (~Kostic@net24-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:12] * Martix (~martix@cst-prg-5-251.cust.vodafone.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Martix
[12:15] * blue2 (easyjet@otitsun.oulu.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:15] * PiBot sets mode +v blue2
[12:19] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:28] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:29] * tero (~l@86.58.60.109) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[12:30] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:30] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[12:31] * Axman6 (~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[12:33] * cypher708 (cypher707@89.181.201.15) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:33] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher708
[12:34] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:34] * PiBot sets mode +v wiiguy
[12:35] * cypher707 (cypher707@89.181.199.128) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[12:37] * tero (~l@86.58.60.109) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:37] * PiBot sets mode +v tero
[12:44] * prebz_ (~prebz@dhcp-177194.eduroam.chalmers.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:44] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz_
[12:44] * Axman6 (~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:44] * PiBot sets mode +v Axman6
[12:48] * cypher707 (cypher707@89.181.201.37) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:48] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher707
[12:50] * cypher708 (cypher707@89.181.201.15) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:51] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:51] * PiBot sets mode +v cosh
[12:52] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[12:54] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:54] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[12:58] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:02] * Martix (~martix@cst-prg-5-251.cust.vodafone.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:04] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:04] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[13:06] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@173-57.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:06] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy_
[13:06] * pitillo (~pitillo@127.Red-79-150-243.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:07] * wjoe (~joe@lc8n.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:10] * pitillo (~pitillo@99.Red-79-159-254.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:10] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[13:11] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad16.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:11] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[13:12] * prebz_ (~prebz@dhcp-177194.eduroam.chalmers.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[13:12] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:12] * PiBot sets mode +v phantoxe
[13:15] * Milos|Netbook_ (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:15] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook_
[13:16] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[13:16] * Milos|Netbook_ is now known as Milos|Netbook
[13:18] * wjoe (~joe@lc8n.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:18] * PiBot sets mode +v wjoe
[13:22] * prebz_ (~prebz@dhcp-177194.eduroam.chalmers.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:22] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz_
[13:26] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:26] * PiBot sets mode +v setkeh
[13:28] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[13:32] * Space_Man (~space_man@87.127.156.98) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:35] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[13:37] <tero> so many news but still no date when the first customer will be able to get one
[13:38] <Hourd> yeah i know theres issues but its dragging on a bit now
[13:39] * khildin (~khildin@ip-83-134-214-50.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:39] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[13:39] * nuil (~sebastian@162-156-165-046.ip-addr.inexio.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:39] * PiBot sets mode +v nuil
[13:39] <ReggieUK> no point moaning about it
[13:40] <ReggieUK> it won't make it happen any quicker
[13:40] <ReggieUK> and will just increase your chances of an ulcer
[13:41] <drazyl> but i want it now!!!!!!
[13:41] * ReggieUK slaps drazyl with a small pony
[13:41] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[13:42] <drazyl> that's so unfair
[13:42] * drazyl sulks
[13:42] <Hourd> yeah i dont really mind too much how long it takes, jsut having been informed properly would have been nice
[13:42] <ReggieUK> go and stand in the corner drazyl
[13:42] * nuil_ (~sebastian@189-156-165-046.ip-addr.inexio.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[13:42] <ReggieUK> facing AWAY from the rest of us
[13:42] <Hourd> it was like "SOON!" ... define 'soon'
[13:43] <drazyl> it's more fun this way, like a lucky dip
[13:43] <Hourd> hehe
[13:45] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[13:54] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:54] * PiBot sets mode +v ukscone
[13:54] * zleap (~psutton@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[13:57] * winocm (~textual@108.208.84.211) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:57] * winocm (~textual@108.208.84.211) Quit (Changing host)
[13:57] * winocm (~textual@opensn0w/developer/winocm) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:57] * PiBot sets mode +v winocm
[13:57] * PiBot sets mode +v winocm
[13:58] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:58] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[13:58] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[13:59] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:59] * PiBot sets mode +v setkeh
[14:00] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:00] * PiBot sets mode +v ipadsy
[14:02] * sco` (~sco`@178.140.198.219) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[14:04] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:05] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:05] * PiBot sets mode +v ipadsy
[14:06] <RaTTuS|BIG> hello
[14:06] <RaTTuS|BIG> hello is this thing on
[14:06] <drazyl> no
[14:06] <RaTTuS|BIG> aha stupid scroll
[14:06] <RaTTuS|BIG> ;-p
[14:07] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[14:07] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-124-185-123-229.lns10.cha.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:07] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[14:10] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:17] * matthiasb (~matthias@e210-202.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:17] * PiBot sets mode +v matthiasb
[14:20] <IT_Sean> Nope. It's been switched off.
[14:20] <IT_Sean> You'll have to turn it on.
[14:21] * tRank (~Fari@5ad45079.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:21] * PiBot sets mode +v tRank
[14:21] <IT_Sean> The switch is in the basement (careful, the light doesn't work), in a filing cabinet, in a disused loo, behind a door reading "beware the leopard"
[14:21] * Pitel (~pitel@ip-94-113-20-150.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:21] * PiBot sets mode +v Pitel
[14:23] <Pitel> I just received my class 10 SD card. and during the shipping, I realized class 10 are not well supported. So, can I somehow test it and know if it will work or not without owning raspberry pi? I have linux and card reader...
[14:23] <IT_Sean> Pitel: you'll have to stick it in a raspi and see if it'll work.
[14:24] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:24] <IT_Sean> "linux and a card reader" doth not a raspi make.
[14:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Cheery
[14:25] <Pitel> IT_Sean: ok, i know, I thought there might be some card diagnostics utility I don;t know about...
[14:25] <drazyl> I'm not sure anyone knows why some cards don't work
[14:26] <shirro> Supposedly it is due to smaller dies in the class 10 cards and perhaps also some micro sdhc cards
[14:26] <shirro> not sure what that has to do with anything though
[14:26] <Pitel> I red somewhere (forum?) it has something to do with addressing. It was something like: class < 10 cards have 1bit addressing, class 10 have 4bit, and not all of them support the old addresing, and RPi can;t handle the new one... or something like that.
[14:26] <IT_Sean> Class 10 cards work in the raspi on a Plug & Pray basis.
[14:27] <shirro> Class 10 are optimised for recording movies etc. They aren't really the right thing for a root filesystem
[14:27] <Dagger2> Pitel: you may wish to benchmark it though; class 10 cards tend to have dismally slow random write speeds
[14:28] <IT_Sean> There really is no benefit to Tenners with the raspi.
[14:28] <Pitel> well, I might exchamnge it with some lower class cards my father use in his camera.
[14:29] <shirro> Class 4 often say "for mobile phones" on the cover. The pi is basically phone hardware.
[14:31] <Cheery> did raspberry have usb3?
[14:31] <IT_Sean> nope.
[14:31] <shirro> What would be the likely fastest way to get data in and out of a Pi? sdhc, usb flash, usb to sata hd, nfs?
[14:32] <IT_Sean> depends on what sort of "data"
[14:32] <Cheery> shirro: ethernet
[14:33] <shirro> IT_Sean: random access, filesystem. perhaps some streaming. [the ethernet is on the usb controller though so can't be faster]
[14:33] <Pitel> Dagger2: benchmarking... but It might be affected by the card reader / usb speed.
[14:34] <Dagger2> Pitel: if your card can only do 20 kB/s write speed, which writer you use isn't going to make a great deal of difference
[14:34] <Pitel> true :)
[14:34] <shirro> Someone will have an SSD connected up by USB. There is always that person.
[14:34] <Dagger2> (and yes, 20 kB/s is a realistic value to expect from most of these C10 cards)
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> 1-bit addressing is a legacy mode.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> 'all' modern cards support 4 bit.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Where modern = >64M or so
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> And I think on reflection all of them too.
[14:35] <shirro> is 4 bit the divide between SD and SHDC or is it further up
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> 1 bit is a legacy mode for using with microcontrollers with very limited resource
[14:35] <drazyl> 4 bits should be enough for anyone
[14:37] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Faperdaper
[14:39] <Pitel> Dagger2: http://i.imgur.com/Pd58v.png the first column are read speed (min/max/avg), the second are write speeds.
[14:39] <Pitel> s/are/is/
[14:40] <Dagger2> Pitel: those look like bulk speeds... try 4 kB random writes, if you can find something to do that benchmark on Linux
[14:41] <IT_Sean> shirro: not sure there is any one best method for dat transfer on a raspi. It's all going through the same bottleneck.
[14:41] * Space_Man (~space_man@87.127.156.98) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Space_Man
[14:42] * shadowe989 (~shadowe98@74-32-109-20.dr01.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:42] * weasel (~weasel@anguilla.debian.or.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:42] * prebz__ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:42] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz__
[14:42] * weasel (~weasel@anguilla.debian.or.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:42] * PiBot sets mode +v weasel
[14:45] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[14:51] <Matt> morning
[14:51] <matthiasb> Can you safely drain 150mA from the USB port? That's about what an flash disk module needs.
[14:51] <matthiasb> Altough the spec says that's max. consumption.
[14:52] <Matt> that came up in a Q&A on the main site
[14:53] * victhor (~victhor@177.41.11.104) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:53] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[14:53] <Matt> now the trick is persuading my laptop to behave so I can find the answer for you
[14:53] <matthiasb> I know it says "The fuses kick in hard around 280mA and fold back and limit to 140mA." My english skills are not sufficient to deduce if that implies a safe constant drain of 150mA
[14:54] <Matt> that's how I'd read it
[14:54] <matthiasb> OK, thanks.
[14:56] * Reggie__ (ReggieUK@5ac9ad36.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:56] * PiBot sets mode +v Reggie__
[14:56] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad16.bb.sky.com) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[14:56] * Reggie__ is now known as ReggieUK
[14:57] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:57] * PiBot sets mode +v ipadsy
[14:59] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:01] * piless (~androirc@94.196.30.185.threembb.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:01] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[15:02] <piless> is it out yet?
[15:02] <Hourd> indeed
[15:04] * matthiasb (~matthias@e210-202.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[15:04] <piless> Oh
[15:05] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:05] * PiBot sets mode +v ipadsy
[15:06] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) Quit (Client Quit)
[15:06] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[15:06] * prebz_ (~prebz@dhcp-177194.eduroam.chalmers.se) Quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
[15:07] * prebz (~prebz@dhcp-177194.eduroam.chalmers.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[15:07] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] * PiBot sets mode +v ipadsy
[15:07] * ipadsy (~irchon@80.4.146.163) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:09] * sco` (~sco`@i103131.upc-i.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:09] * PiBot sets mode +v sco`
[15:12] * shadowe989 (~shadowe98@74-32-106-129.dr01.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:12] * PiBot sets mode +v shadowe989
[15:13] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-epiotjuemfwmufvl) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:13] * PiBot sets mode +v troth
[15:15] <ukscone> Doh! PEBKAC -- just spent an hour debugging what turned out to be a typo passed to ./configure :) there is no lunux hardware
[15:18] * diplo (~diplo@213.235.39.86) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:18] * PiBot sets mode +v diplo
[15:20] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad36.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[15:23] * EiN_ is now known as EiNSTeiN_
[15:23] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@216.252.65.241) Quit (Changing host)
[15:23] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:23] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[15:25] <sco`> so seeing as your gana have an influx of *new* never before used PI or even *nix for that matter .... students/enthusiasts ... what kinda of resources are being offered? directions, pointers etc ..
[15:25] <piless> Nothing
[15:25] <sco`> just an unofficial IRC room?
[15:25] <RaTTuS|BIG> having a RPi wont get them this far
[15:25] <piless> They probably won't bother until the educational release
[15:26] <sco`> the educational release ??? as in once its distributed to schools ?
[15:27] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes - that has to come with a case bare boars are for hackers
[15:27] <sco`> but then its gana be locked within the syllabus of that school... might be gov level , but i dont think it would be open
[15:27] <RaTTuS|BIG> we , supposeidly , know what whrere doing
[15:27] <piless> Well, that's when they're going to launch it as an educational device, and it will come with a case
[15:28] <sco`> ah ic.
[15:28] <piless> Ahahahaha
[15:28] <sco`> was gana download the case myself ;)
[15:28] <piless> Speak for yourself
[15:28] <sco`> u not seen that 3d printer ready case ?? lol sweet
[15:29] <piless> sco`: theres a couple of cardboard cases you could download
[15:30] <sco`> heh! might just use blue-tack personally
[15:30] <IT_Sean> 3D printing FTW. :p
[15:30] <piless> 3d printing is shit
[15:30] <Hourd> piless: why?
[15:31] <IT_Sean> you can make stuff! Like raspi cases!
[15:31] <IT_Sean> It's awesome!
[15:31] * futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:31] * PiBot sets mode +v futurity
[15:31] <piless> They come out all powdery
[15:31] <Matt> there's always wood... :)
[15:32] <IT_Sean> piless: so, a little finishing work, and blamo! custom case for your raspi!
[15:32] <IT_Sean> Matt: it's the wood that makes it good!
[15:32] <sco`> the first of most things is shite, its the idea that is wicked
[15:32] <piless> Injection moulding ftw
[15:32] <IT_Sean> 3D printing has actually gotten a lot better in the past year or two.
[15:33] <Kolin> 3d printing is hardly new
[15:33] <IT_Sean> I didn't say it was. Just that it has inmproved greatly in the last few years.
[15:33] <Matt> I really think raspi and gertboard is hitting the target square on
[15:33] <IT_Sean> The resolution keeps getting better, and the price of homebrew rigs keeps going down.
[15:33] <Kolin> i didnt say you said it was i was talking to sco` :P
[15:33] <piless> I'LL wait till you can build a 3d printer for ??50
[15:34] * Matt had hours of fun writing code on the trs-80 and later PC that'd bit-bang the printer port
[15:34] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:34] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[15:34] <Matt> making things flash and whatnot
[15:34] <IT_Sean> piless: you could probably manage to build one for arounf ??100 to
[15:34] <IT_Sean> oops
[15:35] <piless> Bullshit
[15:35] <IT_Sean> piless: you could probably manage to build one for around ??100 if you scavanged all the bits
[15:35] <sco`> its when 3d printers can print 3d printers ... thats the day !
[15:35] <piless> Not a shitty one made out of lego
[15:36] <IT_Sean> sco`: machines building machines!? I dunno... that's how skynet got started.
[15:37] <Matt> you're still gonna need metal parts
[15:37] <Matt> which aren't really printable :)
[15:37] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Forca
[15:38] <sco`> we dont give em ai ... i mean common. any sci fi has told us that !!
[15:38] <piless> Not yet anyway
[15:38] <Hourd> can print metal parts...
[15:38] <Hourd> :P
[15:38] <piless> Just remember the 3 rules
[15:39] <Davespice> piless: the Asimov ones? :)
[15:39] <Matt> if it's green or it wiggles, it's biology; if it stinks it's chemistry; if it doesn't work it's physics?
[15:40] <IT_Sean> Don't leave the toilet seat up, Don't leave toothpaste loogies in the sink, and don't leave crusty dishes in the sink? Those three rules?
[15:40] * victhor (~victhor@177.41.11.104) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:40] <IT_Sean> I like Matt's rules better.
[15:40] <piless> 1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. 2. A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. 3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
[15:40] <Davespice> okay so yes, the Asimov laws.
[15:41] <Davespice> Issac Asimov came up with those laws and spent the next 30 years finding holes in them and writing books about it... so are those laws actually all that useful? :)
[15:41] <piless> Kind of sucks they rule against robot suicide
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> They are essentially useless at the moment.
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> Simply as robots have problems working out what walls are.
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> Nevermind humans.
[15:42] <Davespice> yes, like hoover robots :)
[15:42] <piless> Roombas do okay at finding the walls
[15:43] <Matt> I read that as "nevermind hummus"
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> The laws imply _really_ good AI that can work out humans, and their actions, in the context of the real world and laws.
[15:43] <IT_Sean> Only by bashing into them several times.
[15:43] <Matt> I don't think you'd get very far bashing into hummus
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> societies laws that is - not robotic.
[15:44] <piless> You ever read this? http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
[15:45] <IT_Sean> Matt: i was referring to walls. Roombas find walls by crashing into them.
[15:45] <Davespice> if they do make robots, one day, with good enough AI, they should make them so that they are no more or less fragile than an actual human being, that way they would be subject to same kind of physical force that is ultimatly used to keep society under control :)
[15:45] <sco`> anyone see that ted video with the flying robots ??
[15:45] <Matt> IT_Sean: it's ok, I tend to go off on a tanget at times :)
[15:45] <IT_Sean> The one where they are playing music?
[15:46] <sco`> yea yea at the end
[15:46] <piless> The manhacks?
[15:46] <Davespice> the quadcopters?
[15:46] <sco`> :) classic
[15:46] <IT_Sean> iirc it was the Bond theme?
[15:46] <Matt> I did notice that netflix seems to have picked up a whole bunch of ted talks
[15:46] <IT_Sean> that was awesome!
[15:46] * felgru (~felgru@xdsl-78-35-209-214.netcologne.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:47] <sco`> all they need to do is fit that AI into avitar size machines , then we got a contruction force that can build buildings ... lego buildings mind . but hey its a start
[15:47] <Kolin> yeah i noticed that to Matt havent watched any yet though
[15:47] * IT_Sean wants a pocket sized AI.
[15:47] <Matt> Kolin: indeed - that involves having some free time
[15:48] <Matt> thinking of which, I ought to get on with some work
[15:48] <ukscone> Shiftplusone: you still here and awake?
[15:48] * victhor (~victhor@177.43.12.160) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:48] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[15:49] <piless> IT_Sean: My phone can play chess badly, does that count?
[15:49] <IT_Sean> No.
[15:50] <IT_Sean> That's still constrained by it's as written programming.
[15:50] <IT_Sean> It has no capacity to actually learn and devlope on it's own.
[15:50] <ukscone> IT_Sean: bit like 90% of your customers then :)
[15:50] <IT_Sean> ukscone: Exactly!
[15:51] <IT_Sean> More like %45, though.
[15:51] <IT_Sean> Most of my customers are pretty smart.
[15:51] <ukscone> i NEED!!!!!!!! a raspberrypi -- i can't go any further with porting emulators without real hardware due to qemu bugs :(
[15:51] * d3p1 (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) Quit (Quit: bye)
[15:51] <IT_Sean> then order one.
[15:52] <ukscone> i will along with a #7, #49 and some prawn crackers
[15:52] <piless> Console emulators?
[15:52] <IT_Sean> A #7? You disgusting bastid!
[15:52] <ukscone> piless: Acorn Electron, BBC Micro & RiscPC ones
[15:52] * amandarn_ (~mandarine@unaffiliated/amandarn) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:53] <ukscone> the z80 based emulators all work but the 6502 based ones don't :( due to poor coding and qemu bugs
[15:53] <piless> Bah that's boring
[15:53] <piless> Port the megadrive instead
[15:53] <ukscone> piless: say that when i am playing chicky egg :)
[15:53] <ukscone> chucky egg even
[15:54] * OneFix_Work (~onefix@205.133.146.124) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:54] * PiBot sets mode +v OneFix_Work
[15:54] <piless> O.O
[15:54] <piless> I want road rash on the pi
[15:54] <OneFix_Work> Anyone else seen their "Expected Ship Date" on Newark jump to August 16th?
[15:55] <piless> OneFix_Work: No, just you.
[15:56] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:56] <Matt> chinese restaurants here don't do prawn crackers :(
[15:57] <piless> Whaaaat
[15:57] <ukscone> Matt: :( really hard to get here in NYC :( can't even find the ones you fry yourself any more
[15:58] <piless> Chinese food is an american invention
[15:58] <ukscone> OneFix_Work: yes i have too went from 2nd april to aug 16th
[15:59] * d3p1 (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:59] * PiBot sets mode +v d3p1
[16:03] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5611.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:03] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[16:04] <Davespice> oh no, panic buying of petrol has started, bloody hell, stupid people grr
[16:04] * eg81 (~eg81@storm.fbsd.lt) has left #raspberrypi
[16:05] <IT_Sean> ?
[16:06] <Davespice> we may be having a petrol tanker driver strike in the UK soon
[16:06] <IT_Sean> Ooooh
[16:06] <IT_Sean> Bugger.
[16:06] <Davespice> so everyone is panic buying petrol
[16:06] <IT_Sean> urft.
[16:06] <IT_Sean> People suck..
[16:06] <Davespice> I know, if everyone followed the old motto - keep calm and carry on, we would all be okay
[16:07] <Hourd> we would indeed
[16:07] <Hourd> british++
[16:07] <piless> That poster was never actually use fyi
[16:07] <piless> Used
[16:08] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:08] * PiBot sets mode +v chandoo
[16:08] * JMNUTS (~macbook@89.152.242.65) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:08] * PiBot sets mode +v JMNUTS
[16:08] * pi|ess (5ec52915@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.197.41.21) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:08] * PiBot sets mode +v pi|ess
[16:08] <Hourd> indeed
[16:08] * pi|ess is now known as notpiless
[16:09] * JMNUTS (~macbook@89.152.242.65) has left #raspberrypi
[16:09] * notpiless is now known as piless2
[16:09] * piless is now known as piless1
[16:09] <chandoo> Hello
[16:10] <piless2> hi
[16:10] * uen| is now known as uen
[16:10] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[16:10] * amandarn (~mandarine@unaffiliated/amandarn) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:10] * PiBot sets mode +v amandarn
[16:11] <IT_Sean> Perhaps that should be the channel motto. :p #raspberrypi -- keep calm and carry on.
[16:11] <Matt> Davespice: another one?
[16:11] * darkfire (~darkfire@151.52.66.16) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] * PiBot sets mode +v darkfire
[16:11] * darkfire (~darkfire@151.52.66.16) has left #raspberrypi
[16:11] <piless2> #raspberrypi -- talk about anything except the raspberrypi
[16:12] * wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:12] <Matt> well until there are more of them out there in the wild :)
[16:12] <IT_Sean> Indeed.
[16:12] <piless2> the channel would be even worse then
[16:12] * piless1 (~androirc@94.196.30.185.threembb.co.uk) Quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
[16:12] * piless2 is now known as piless
[16:13] <IT_Sean> this channel is going to be mental once the raspi is widly distributed.
[16:13] * ctyler getting ticked off that his kernel update doesn't boot.
[16:13] <IT_Sean> I am not looking forward to all the "why can't it run windows!?" idiots.
[16:13] <piless> it can run windows though
[16:14] <IT_Sean> O_o
[16:14] <piless> win ce
[16:15] * IT_Sean rolls his eyes
[16:15] <IT_Sean> fine
[16:15] <IT_Sean> I am not looking forward to all the "why can't it run windows 8!?" idiots.
[16:16] <piless> because windows 8 is not sold by itself, and microsoft will only license it to devices with locked bootloaders
[16:16] <piless> *windows 8 arm
[16:16] <amandarn> Why can't it run Windows 8 ? It's ARM based, it should be able to do that !
[16:16] <amandarn> :p
[16:16] <amandarn> (kidding)
[16:16] <Davespice> Matt: sorry what was that?
[16:17] <Davespice> piless: yeah the original poster was intended to be issues if England was invaded
[16:17] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:17] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[16:17] <piless> ???
[16:17] <Davespice> to stop the people from going completly gaga because the enemy could be coming over the hill any moment
[16:17] <Matt> Davespice: another petrol tanker driver strike
[16:17] <piless> Oh, I thought you were talking about OP
[16:18] <Davespice> Matt: yes, could be this week
[16:18] <Matt> fun
[16:18] * Matt remembers the last one
[16:18] <piless> red diesel for everyone
[16:18] <Davespice> yeah, back in 2000 wasn't it?
[16:18] <Matt> sounds about right
[16:19] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-epiotjuemfwmufvl) has left #raspberrypi
[16:19] <Matt> I remember the garage round the corner from us opened up it's pumps after being shut for ages
[16:19] <Matt> "4 star only"
[16:19] <Matt> I was pretty sure that it was *actually* 4-star
[16:19] <Matt> not LRP
[16:19] <chandoo> my rpi ship date now shows from apr/14/2012 to Aug/16/2012
[16:20] <chandoo> i dont understand this logic
[16:20] <piless> chandoo: They're scrapping the first 10k because they didn't pass the ce certification
[16:21] <chandoo> i strongly believe element14, newark guyz were not planned and they weren't be able to handle this kind of order bulkness
[16:21] <Matt> "it ships when it ships"
[16:22] <Matt> perhaps that should be in the topic? :)
[16:22] <piless> chandoo: Nah, they're big businesses who've been doing this for years, the fuck ups are more on the foundation.
[16:22] <piless> Matt: If they're sticking that it, they might aswell say no bronies aswell
[16:22] <piless> *in
[16:23] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-132-254-212.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:23] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[16:23] <piless> hi mkopack
[16:23] <mkopack> heya
[16:23] <chandoo> rpi foundation should have hired a guy like me to handle this sort of issues of first launch
[16:24] <ReggieUK> Davespice, are people actually panic buying? Or are your reading the bs from labour/bbc?
[16:24] <mkopack> panic buying? of RPi's???
[16:24] <piless> mkopack: Nah, petrol
[16:25] <mkopack> Why? did something happen?
[16:25] <mkopack> I haven't looked at news sites in a few days
[16:25] <piless> Maybe people are panic buying because the sun/daily mail say people are.
[16:25] <piless> They're just big trolls
[16:25] <Davespice> yeah, its a self fulfilling prophecy
[16:26] <Davespice> not sure when the drivers are going to strike but they have apparently trained up some tanker crews from army reserves to do it
[16:26] <IT_Sean> dammed unions.
[16:26] <piless> that sucks for the strikers then
[16:26] <Davespice> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17533151
[16:27] <IT_Sean> I'd say fire the lot of 'em
[16:27] <piless> IT_Sean: errrrr
[16:27] <Davespice> there you go, PM advises to top up petrol = PANIC STATIONS
[16:27] <piless> what the fuck.. the pm is actually telling people to panic buy.. what was he thinking?!
[16:28] <Davespice> ReggieUK: I just saw a huge queue at the petrol station over on upper Richmond road, so yeah it's already started
[16:28] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-124-185-123-229.lns10.cha.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[16:29] <ReggieUK> oh no
[16:30] <ReggieUK> well actually, what do I care? I don't drive anyway!
[16:30] <Davespice> haha
[16:30] <piless> dreading the olympics
[16:30] <ReggieUK> don't live in london, it won't affect me
[16:31] <ReggieUK> and I am sufficiently skilled with a remote control to avoid it on the TV too
[16:31] <piless> ReggieUK: IT WILL BE ON ALL THE CHANNELS
[16:31] <Hourd> lawl petrol panic
[16:31] <ReggieUK> THEN STOP WATCHING TV!
[16:31] <ReggieUK> and no it won't be on all the channels
[16:32] <mkopack> What the F? You guys see this story about the Jet Blue PILOT that had to be subdued by the passengers???
[16:32] <piless> awww wtf the new simcity is going to require an always-on internet connection
[16:32] <Davespice> I am a bit worried as I have to drive to Cornwall and back next week
[16:32] * sco` (~sco`@i103131.upc-i.chello.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[16:32] <mkopack> piless: UGH! that SUCKS??? but the game looks AWESOME! Especially the real time multiplayer
[16:32] * robotusrex (freha@lynx.stud.ntnu.no) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:32] <Kolin> dave will be showing the beijing olympics
[16:33] <piless> kernow is so overrated
[16:33] <mkopack> Honestly, guys, after surviving the '96 Atlanta Olympics (I was part of the IBM team that did the scorekeeping software for those games), traffic will be unbelievably light because so many people will be scared it's going to be bad that they'll all stay home for those 2 weeks
[16:34] <drazyl> bring in the army.... and shoot all the strikers
[16:34] <piless> mkopack: it's not the traffic that will be hit (that's bad enough already) it's the public transportation that's going to be fucked
[16:34] <mkopack> Of course, I was on the road at like 5am, and couldn't leave my venue until about 1am every day...
[16:35] <mkopack> I was at the aquatic's center...
[16:35] <piless> might as well just sleep there
[16:35] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@rrcs-97-77-70-128.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:35] * PiBot sets mode +v dnstbr
[16:35] <piless> just lock yourself in the toilets and go to sleep
[16:35] <Davespice> piless: I was born down there, so please don't insult the place
[16:36] <mkopack> I almost did a couple times??? thank GOD they set up cots for us in one of the rooms so we could get a LITTLE sleep between the morning and evening sessions...
[16:36] <piless> Davespice: :D
[16:36] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-eggbfjcabromqbha) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:36] * PiBot sets mode +v rodrigo_golive
[16:36] <Davespice> mkopack: I am guessing Diesel will also be affected
[16:36] <mkopack> You know what's worse that having to watch the preliminary rounds of platform diving when there are like 50 divers, each getting to do 5 dives, with 3 minutes between dives?
[16:36] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:36] * PiBot sets mode +v pizthewiz
[16:36] <Davespice> so yeas that will impact on trains and stuff
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: When it's the mens?
[16:38] <mkopack> Having to watch preliminary rounds of swimming when they're doing multiple heats of the 1600 meter, and some of the people are from countries in Africa where they've probably never seen a swimming pool that large before??? *I* can swim faster than some of those people were!
[16:38] <piless> ugh,, don't watch the swimming, just sneak into the womens changing rooms
[16:38] * shirro_ (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:38] <Matt> mkopack: you still work for ibm?
[16:38] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128179182.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:39] <mkopack> The first week of competition is interesting and you're basically pumped on adrenaline??? but by the second week of the games you just want it to hurry up and be over because you've had no sleep, it's getting boring, and tedious.
[16:39] <mkopack> Nah, left in 98.
[16:39] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[16:39] * Matthew is now known as Guest87410
[16:39] <mkopack> the ONLY thing that made up for it was the Synchonized Swimming??? The Italian team was very???. shale we say??? Boyant?
[16:40] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:40] * PiBot sets mode +v vipkilla
[16:40] <mkopack> I also had some cool things happen during that games...
[16:41] <piless> are we talking about tits?
[16:41] <mkopack> Like meeting Summer Sanders (american swimmer)??? Seeing Janet Evans crying her eyes out on the deck of the practice pool after failing to make the final round of one of the events she was favored to win, meeting Dolf Lungren (he's actually the sponsor of the US Men's Pentathalon team), and getting a picture signed by all of the US Diving squad.
[16:41] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:42] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has left #raspberrypi
[16:42] <mkopack> Oh, and getting to tell off a german broadcaster when he tried to throw a fit with me because he went on a rant about "Where is my ISDN line? I paid for an ISDN line"
[16:42] <piless> mkopack: which is your favourite creeping place, olympic sized swimming pools or hooters?
[16:42] <mkopack> HAHAH
[16:43] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:43] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[16:43] <mkopack> Well, the australian swim team didn't bother with the locker room when changing (this was in the weeks before the olympics??? We were going through final testing like 2 weeks before the games, getting the venue systems set up???)
[16:44] <mkopack> Needless to say, when we saw that, all of the guys ran up and had our faces plastered to the big glass window in the control room to get a closer view :)
[16:44] <mkopack> I don't think they realized that there were people anywhere around
[16:45] <piless> mmmm australians..
[16:45] <mkopack> yeah??? :)
[16:46] <mkopack> The water polo was cool, but that was done at pools outside the main pool so I didn't get to see much of it
[16:47] <mkopack> There was also the night during platform diving when the whole Olympic computer network died in the middle of competition??? And when that went out, so did all the electronic scorekeeping, the scoreboard, etc.
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Also - wut?
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Summer_Sanders&diff=473957204&oldid=473873320
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Seems rather pointless vandalism
[16:48] <mkopack> Yeah, um, let's just say that Summer doesn't look too hot at 5am :)
[16:48] <piless> how's the panda?
[16:48] * Guest87410 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:48] <mkopack> Eh, ok??? I'm still trying to get a smaller / faster version of Linux on there...
[16:49] <mkopack> I tried a debian image that was posted, and it WAS fast and small, but I couldn't tell if it had the drivers for the wifi and GFX installed, and I got no output on the HDMI, only through the serial port console.
[16:49] <mkopack> Then I tried an Ubuntu-core image and that failed to boot up???
[16:50] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:50] * PiBot sets mode +v Matttt
[16:50] <mkopack> so I just posted to the mailing list/group to see if somebody could give me some help
[16:50] <Matt> that's too many t's :)
[16:50] <mkopack> BRB, AFK
[16:51] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:51] * jthunder (~jthunder@174.3.126.51) Quit (Quit: jthunder)
[16:52] <piless> mkopack: stick ice cream sandwich on it
[16:52] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:52] * PiBot sets mode +v cosh
[16:53] * matthiasb (matthias@188-23-85-55.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] * PiBot sets mode +v matthiasb
[16:53] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] * PiBot sets mode +v farmboy
[16:55] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[16:58] <traeak> frankly with the mele why would a lot of people even care about the rpi anymore
[16:58] <mkopack> ok, back
[16:59] <mkopack> piless: I could, but that's not going to help for what I want to do with it
[16:59] <traeak> mele did what they were supposed to...got an incomplete product to market as quickly as possible so people could ddevelop on it. Next they'll optimize their platform and probably release a mele version 'b' for 50USD or less
[16:59] <mkopack> mele ???
[16:59] <traeak> mele a1000
[17:00] <mkopack> Ah, that AllWinnerA10 thing
[17:00] * jzu__ (~jzu@79.174.206.23) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:00] * PiBot sets mode +v jzu__
[17:00] <traeak> alwinner a10 cortex a8, vga, hdmi, 3usb, 802.11n and full SATA
[17:00] <piless> can you call an arm machine a pc?
[17:00] <mkopack> Yeah, looks like it'd be way faster than the RPi
[17:01] <traeak> no io bottleneck
[17:01] <traeak> 512MB ram
[17:01] <mkopack> and not all THAT much more expensive (at least to us hacker types)
[17:01] <traeak> umm, yeah it's pc grade
[17:01] <ReggieUK> is that that jank chinese thing?
[17:01] <traeak> and aparently this a1000 is mostly an engineering sample
[17:02] <traeak> they plan on optimizing the system and pcb and make another much cheaper release
[17:02] * mwschib (irc@unaffiliated/mwschib) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:02] * PiBot sets mode +v mwschib
[17:02] <piless> why is it marketed as a set-top box?
[17:02] <traeak> because for $100 from dealextreme it comes with android 2.3 and a remote control
[17:02] <piless> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mele-1080p-android-2-3-internet-tv-set-top-box-w-wifi-optical-3-x-usb-hdmi-av-lan-sd-119913#open full view
[17:02] <mkopack> probably to try to capture that market of all the freaks who are buying the RPi just to run XMBC
[17:02] <ReggieUK> yup
[17:03] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[17:03] <piless> can it run xbmc?
[17:03] * prebz (~prebz@dhcp-177194.eduroam.chalmers.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:03] <traeak> you can get it for ~80USD shipped from ali baba without the remote and hard drive cover
[17:04] <traeak> piless: not yet, but one guy has it booting ubuntu...not quite running just yet though
[17:04] * jzu (~jzu@79.174.206.23) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:04] <traeak> hm...if they can get this down to $50 in a future release...
[17:05] * diplo (~diplo@213.235.39.86) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:05] <traeak> there's the VGA port everyone has been bitching about as well
[17:05] <piless> see that's the problem.. even though hardware wise it's better, it will never have the user-base level of the rpi
[17:06] <traeak> what rpi?
[17:06] <traeak> :-p
[17:06] * ReggieUK 's troll sensor goes off
[17:07] <mkopack> piless: Problem is, right now even the RPI doesn't have the user base level??? because none of us can actually USE one!
[17:07] <traeak> none of us actually have our hands on one and won't
[17:07] <piless> is it a beep beep or more of a siren?
[17:07] <ReggieUK> rumblepad
[17:07] <traeak> ie: the rpi foundation did some stupid stuff, including not going to manufacture with what they demod in may 2011
[17:08] <traeak> ie: 2011 would have definitely been the year of the rpi, now they're wearing out the hype machine
[17:08] <piless> they probably didn't have the money then
[17:08] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[17:08] <mkopack> I Really hope we get some info today. This is getting a bit ridiculous??? it's been nearly a MONTH now since they told us we could order
[17:08] <piless> they should have gone with a pre-order system since the start
[17:09] <traeak> they probably should have kept their mouths entirely shut until they actually had harware to sell
[17:09] * ReggieUK steps out of the room until the whiners have stopped whining
[17:09] <RaTTuS|BIG> they opend the pre-oreder last month
[17:09] <traeak> lke the mele...the first you hear of it, it's actually on sale and people are receiving them
[17:09] <mkopack> yeah, until everything was ready to go.. hardware was tested, at distributors warehouses, ready to sell and ship
[17:09] <piless> ReggieUK: don't come back
[17:10] <ReggieUK> but the mele is a pos chinese board that's been adapted to maybe do some kind of job, but not the one the pi is designed for
[17:10] <ReggieUK> and fuck you piless
[17:10] * gabriel9|work (~quassel@92.241.143.37) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:10] <piless> lol
[17:10] <piless> all this channel is whine
[17:10] <traeak> ReggieUK: partly...the mele can't do embedded controller stuff..but i never cared about that myself
[17:10] <mwschib> my rpi order from newark (canada) just got moved from april to the middle of august. All that anticipation for nothing :(
[17:10] <traeak> yup, it turned into whine when the november delivery date started getting pushed back
[17:11] <ReggieUK> ever thought about doing something positive instead of complaining?
[17:11] <ReggieUK> just a thought?
[17:11] <piless> mwschib: they changed from a first-come first-serve system to a randomized one
[17:11] * netcarver (~netcarver@host86-168-18-106.range86-168.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:11] <traeak> oh you mean like the development project i've been working on for the rpi ?
[17:11] <traeak> maybe :-p
[17:12] <ReggieUK> ;)
[17:12] <ReggieUK> I wandered off and worked on other arm dev stuff
[17:12] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:12] * PiBot sets mode +v phantoxe
[17:12] <traeak> yeah, figured so...i've got tons of my own work to do as well which detracts from that
[17:13] <ReggieUK> I just don't see the point of everyone constantly complaining about what's happening with the pi
[17:13] <ReggieUK> it'll happen when it happens
[17:13] * cypher708 (cypher707@89-181-206-132.net.novis.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:13] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher708
[17:13] <mkopack> Son of a B*TCH??? Yeah, my Newark order also went from March 30 to Aug 15!!! WTF?!?! ARGH!!! This BLOWS
[17:13] <traeak> the mele is the first of many is all
[17:14] <piless> mkopack: dare ya to cancel your order
[17:14] <ReggieUK> there's plenty of stuff out there already that could be a 'mele' type of arm dev board
[17:14] <ReggieUK> but they're not
[17:14] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:14] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[17:14] <traeak> really? i didn't know about any of those and haven't seen them yet
[17:14] <mwschib> not complaining, just wondered what happened
[17:15] <ReggieUK> and lots of knock off stuff will just end up diluting the sector
[17:15] <ReggieUK> so
[17:15] <ReggieUK> STAY STRONG PEOPLE
[17:15] <traeak> :-p
[17:15] * cypher707 (cypher707@89.181.201.37) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:15] <ReggieUK> mwschib, my comments weren't aimed at you in particular, don't take it personal :)
[17:15] <mkopack> mwschib: don't know??? but I got bumped back too??? I could understand a couple weeks. but 3+ MONTHS??? There's NO WAY this should take another 3 months unless they're totally redesigning the board!
[17:16] <piless> mkopack: the foundation is just too cowardly to admit they fucked up
[17:16] <ReggieUK> traeak, I'm just talking about random arm devices that are ripe for hacking
[17:16] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[17:16] * dormant (~dormant@d54C1A06E.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:16] * PiBot sets mode +v dormant
[17:16] <ReggieUK> like parrot df3120 photoframe
[17:16] <traeak> ReggieUK: sure: pogoplug is an excellent example
[17:16] <ReggieUK> ok, it's a bit lacking in ram and cpu speed
[17:17] * jzu__ is now known as jzu
[17:17] <ReggieUK> pogoplug is designed for messing with :)
[17:17] <philh> traeak, are you talking about about arm based internet connected media players or just pi equivalent boards?
[17:17] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:17] <mkopack> MAn, good thing I got the panda board to work with and didn't hold out for the RPi?????? that's just insane that it gets pushed 3 months out
[17:17] <philh> i've seen a good handful of the former kicking around
[17:17] <piless> yeah but according to you the pandaboard sucks
[17:17] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:17] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
[17:18] * prebz__ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:18] <traeak> philh: providing the non embedded functionality of the rpi
[17:18] <mkopack> I didn't say it sucks??? I said the community support for it is a bit lacking??? hardware wise it's great!
[17:18] <ReggieUK> I think what mkopack is doing with it probably sucks (not his fault, he's just starting out with it)
[17:18] <mkopack> and *I HAVE IT IN HAND*
[17:18] <philh> traeak, ?
[17:18] <traeak> philh: seems there's a very good chance the mele can be fully hacked as a fully open system
[17:18] <mkopack> so I can spend the next 3 months getting it up and going the way I need it to???
[17:18] <mkopack> Not twiddling my thumbs waiting for product that might not ever get here at this point...
[17:19] <mkopack> sigh
[17:19] <mkopack> I can't wait to see what Liz posts about the compliance testing.
[17:19] <philh> traeak, any idea if it's very different from http://www.ebuyer.com/345820-sumvision-cyclone-nano-android-media-player-nano1 in that respect?
[17:19] <traeak> the fun of actually getting something to market
[17:19] <piless> meh, I'm just going to forget about the rpi, if it arrives in the post then it will be a pleasant suprise, otherwise I'm not going to sit around waiting
[17:19] <mkopack> I just can't understand how they go from "10,000 ready to ship" to "Ok, boards are broken but getting fixed" and now "3 months longer???."
[17:20] <piless> mkopack: they are not as transparent as we would like to believe
[17:20] <traeak> philh: don't see anyone hacking that
[17:20] <mkopack> sure, and I don't expect them to tell us everything, but at the same time, holy crap this is turning into a fiasco??? and if you recall I've been one of their supporters all along...
[17:21] <mkopack> At this point it's going to be a YEAR beyond when they originally had hoped to have it out???
[17:21] * jthunder (~jthunder@184.151.222.138) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:21] * PiBot sets mode +v jthunder
[17:21] <piless> philh: Does it have an unlocked bootloader?
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[17:21] * PiBot sets mode +v JMNUTS_
[17:21] <philh> traeak, oh, i see, the mele's already being worked on?
[17:21] <philh> piless, no idea
[17:21] <traeak> philh: yes actively with blessing of the allwinner folks
[17:21] <philh> ah, nice
[17:22] <traeak> philh: and the nano played doesn't have native SATA on it
[17:22] <traeak> philh: player i mean
[17:23] <piless> what about ide :(
[17:23] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-eggbfjcabromqbha) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:24] <philh> hmm, the mele does look good for the price
[17:25] <philh> heh, didn't notice the vga out
[17:25] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:25] * PiBot sets mode +v jmontleon
[17:25] <piless> too bad they didn't give a shit about giving it a nice case
[17:25] <traeak> mele isn't interesting as an embedded controller
[17:26] <traeak> piless: it seems they felt it more importnt to get the hardware into people's hands and work on getting the real hardware later
[17:26] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-ajauqanbjfubwfgc) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:26] * PiBot sets mode +v rodrigo_golive
[17:26] <traeak> piless: so the a1000 appaerntly is "engineering sample" for sale
[17:30] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:30] <Shiftplusone_s2> Morning
[17:31] <piless> it's not morning
[17:32] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] * PiBot sets mode +v jmontleon
[17:33] <IT_Sean> It is here.
[17:33] <piless> no its not
[17:35] <jzu> "I find your lack of faith disturbing"
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[17:36] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz_
[17:36] <traeak> good morning :-p
[17:36] <traeak> !w
[17:36] <PiBot> traeak: in Parker, CO on Wed Mar 28 09:53:00 2012. Temp 12??C. Condition: Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 30%, Later 23??C - 6??C. Condition: Clear.
[17:36] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:36] * Matt uses "morning" as an online greeting irrespective of time of day
[17:37] <traeak> reading up on the mele on the mailing list. Orders started first of march or so
[17:37] <traeak> people got pissed because there was like a week or so delay
[17:37] <traeak> they didn't start getting them until about march 20th
[17:37] <traeak> that really sucks, those mele people don't know shit about what they are doing :-p
[17:38] * amandarn (~mandarine@unaffiliated/amandarn) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[17:38] * PiBot sets mode +v amandarn
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[17:38] * PiBot sets mode +v passstab
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[17:38] * PiBot sets mode +v amandarn
[17:38] <mkopack> And, just got my grade for the graphics class - A???. Not sure how it wasn't an A+, but whatever??? no difference in terms of GPA points, so I don't really care.
[17:39] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:40] <ReggieUK> congratz mkopack
[17:40] <traeak> mkopack: 3d graphics?
[17:41] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Matthew
[17:42] * Matthew is now known as Guest93784
[17:44] <mkopack> yeah
[17:44] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:44] <traeak> hehe, my partner was bitching about 4x4 matrix formulation
[17:45] <mkopack> I still don't understand how mathematically I only got an A instead of an A+??? The assignments, EX Credit and final exam grades got me to a 94, without factoring in a presentation that we had to submit worth up to 10 points???
[17:45] <mkopack> I can't imagine I would have gotten less than a 5 on that...
[17:46] <mkopack> yeah, the matrix math stuff can be a bit of a pain. I made it a point to build a small library of code that would do those for me
[17:46] <traeak> beat up the teacher
[17:46] <traeak> we do translation first then rotation
[17:46] <traeak> 4x4 matrices do rotate then translate
[17:46] <mkopack> Yup, you have to
[17:46] * neil__ (~neil@CPE-124-179-82-33.lns6.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[17:46] <traeak> he gets bothered by transforms that do stuff in 2 different domains
[17:46] <mkopack> Well, you do 4x4 to make it 3D...
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[17:46] * PiBot sets mode +v AdrianG
[17:47] <traeak> nah, we have everything formulated as a translation + 3x3
[17:47] <mkopack> Eh, I can understand that. It makes it complicated when you look at the matrix to understand what's happening when they're all moved together
[17:47] <traeak> but we do everything physics convention
[17:47] <Matt> I've not done matrix maths in years
[17:47] <traeak> linear algebra is a nice optimization tool but it's a hack
[17:48] <mkopack> yeah, I had to go look up how to do Dot-Product and Cross-Product.. It's been over a decade
[17:48] <traeak> cross product is a hack :-p
[17:48] <traeak> go learn geometric algebra
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[17:48] <traeak> it doesn't matter honestly
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[18:02] <hotwings> holy christ.. my 4/2 & 4/3 ship dates both got pushed to 8/16
[18:03] <hotwings> i didnt actually think they would ship in a couple days but 4 and a half month delay! thats absurd
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> You need to let off some stress.
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> http://wish.co.uk/zombie-shopping-mall/
[18:04] <traeak> http://pushbroom.org/NoPiForYou.jpg
[18:05] <mkopack> hot: Yup, mine too.. :(
[18:05] * jthunder (~jthunder@184.151.222.138) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> Not mine,
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> (not got date at all yet)
[18:07] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:09] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[18:12] <aditsu> I never had a ship date on the site, but one of their emails said the lead time is end of March (and I didn't get any news about that)
[18:13] * tRank (~Fari@5ad45079.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[18:13] <aditsu> also, http://cheezburger.com/6034958848
[18:13] * Space_Man (~space_man@87.127.156.98) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:14] * kallisti5 (~kallisti5@discord.unixzen.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:14] * PiBot sets mode +v kallisti5
[18:14] <kallisti5> DSGHRT$Q#^@^@%Y
[18:14] <kallisti5> 16 Aug 2012
[18:14] <kallisti5> It went from March 15th, to March 30th, to Aug 16th!?
[18:15] <kallisti5> (ship date @ newark)
[18:16] <mkopack> I can't wait to see what their explanation is...
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[18:16] <wcchandler> aww man... shipping date moved to aug 16th :(
[18:16] <kallisti5> I can understand a huge delay of a month +
[18:16] <kallisti5> but Feb -> aug?
[18:16] * Guest93784 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:17] <wcchandler> kallisti5: mine was similar, mar 14th, mar 30th, aug 16th
[18:17] <Shiftplusone_s2> The shipping dates never meant anything, so I wouldn't call it a delay.
[18:17] <kallisti5> the thing is I ordered early the morning after :(
[18:17] <kallisti5> thought I didn't have a *terrible* spot
[18:17] <kallisti5> it wasn
[18:17] <IT_Sean> kallisti5: since the "release" date, several things have happened to delay shipping
[18:17] <kallisti5> it wasn't *great* but not that bad
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[18:17] * PiBot sets mode +v tRank
[18:17] <kallisti5> IT_Sean: yeah. i heard
[18:18] <kallisti5> just a let down
[18:18] * PReDiToR (~preditor@178.98.29.139) Quit (Changing host)
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[18:18] * PiBot sets mode +v PReDiToR
[18:18] <kallisti5> I have an os port to work on :(
[18:18] <wcchandler> I don't think the inital 10k are anything special anymore, rs and farnell are probably already rolling a bunch out
[18:18] <mkopack> I'd just like to have some info on WHEN the hell they plan to actually start shipping anything
[18:19] <aditsu> can we get them by Christmas?
[18:19] <Shiftplusone_s2> They'd need to know how the testing goes.
[18:19] <wcchandler> yeah raspberry pi and liz spoiled us with their transparency.. always open and telling us stuff. these places are just making me angrier and angrier for not saying anything
[18:20] * jamesglanville (~james@62.49.187.64) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> They absolutely will not be rolling new ones out if they don't have the certification.
[18:20] <passstab> yea i can't wait til the rpi store comes back
[18:20] <kallisti5> http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=grep&q=raspberry
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> Because getting it certified might require board changes.
[18:20] <IT_Sean> Kepp your digits crossed that it passes first time out
[18:21] <IT_Sean> *keep
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[18:21] <wcchandler> they can still sell it uncertified
[18:21] <passstab> kallisti5 neet
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[18:21] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
[18:21] <PReDiToR> I'm in the UK, I'll have a dev board that the FCC haven't passed!
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> wcchandler: It depends on what agreements were mae.
[18:21] <Shiftplusone_s2> They can and should have
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> PReDiToR: It's not FCC, it's CE.
[18:21] * JMNUTS_ (~macbook@89.152.242.65) Quit (Quit: JMNUTS_)
[18:21] <kallisti5> passstab: without boards though... i'll lost interest pretty quickly :)
[18:21] <passstab> why is haiku so interesting to people?
[18:22] <kallisti5> *lose interest
[18:22] <Shiftplusone_s2> They are not doing both?
[18:22] <PReDiToR> CE has an exception for dev boards
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> Shiftplusone: It depends on the agreements signed. It may not be possible to get them back from RS and farnell, and resell.
[18:22] <kallisti5> passstab: because, it's awesome
[18:22] <passstab> why?
[18:22] * IT_Sean would be very very happy to buy a noon--certified board, if it came to that.
[18:22] * passstab would also
[18:22] <IT_Sean> *non-certified
[18:22] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:22] * PiBot sets mode +v setkeh
[18:22] <kallisti5> passstab: neat api, clean driver and kernel setup, nice simple interface
[18:22] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-09.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> PReDiToR: There isn't. There is an exception for stuff not to end users. But the problem is that it's hard to argue that all the people ordering it are devs.
[18:23] <passstab> are you on it?
[18:23] <passstab> now?
[18:23] <kallisti5> passstab: updating drivers is as easy as removing the driver binary (the kernel picks up on this and unloads the driver)
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[18:23] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[18:23] <IT_Sean> SpeedEvil: no it isn't. Just "only sell it to devs" :p
[18:23] <passstab> wow
[18:23] <Shiftplusone_s2> Well they said they agreed to have them certified. I doubt Farnell just hijacked the boards
[18:23] <kallisti5> passstab: and putting a new one in (the kernel then picks up on a new driver and loads it)
[18:23] <PReDiToR> SpeedEvil: We are, we're dev the OS for the school unit, surely?
[18:23] <kallisti5> passstab: makes development really easy.. just one small example :)
[18:23] <IT_Sean> That was a stupid agreement to make, esp in light of all the existing delays.
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> PReDiToR: Some of us may be.
[18:24] <Shiftplusone_s2> Yup
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> PReDiToR: Some are just end users, that are going to put xbmc or whatever on it, and do no dev work at all
[18:24] <passstab> so it's more for learning to develop
[18:24] <IT_Sean> RS & Farnell don't need to know that. They were contracted to distribute the things. They need to bugger off an just do what they wewre contracted to do.
[18:24] <PReDiToR> SpeedEvil: That should be a badly kept secret.
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> The other problem is that Farnell and RS don't have any investment in the project.
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> So they are not willing to risk the possibilities of large fines.
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> Even if that is not likely
[18:25] <IT_Sean> exactly. No investment, No say in how the things are made.
[18:26] <IT_Sean> If i were the Foundation, i would recall every last raspi from them, and distribute them myself.
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Also - prosecution of farnell or RS is much more likelycompared to the foundation
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> _I_ - alone - myself - could have shipped all the Pis by now.
[18:26] <IT_Sean> yup
[18:26] <PReDiToR> IT_Sean: Can you imagine the backlash if we who are on for the 10k were pushed to the back of the queue?
[18:27] <IT_Sean> Speak for yourself. I'm ont in the queue. :p
[18:27] <Shiftplusone_s2> That's possible
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> Also - the Pi foundation presumably has no money.
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> Still.
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> So they're not going to be making more till they get the money for sales.
[18:27] <Shiftplusone_s2> As happened with pandora
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> Which hasn't happened yet
[18:27] <PReDiToR> IT_Sean: Sucks, dude.
[18:27] * wej (~j@95.211.92.234) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:27] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[18:27] <IT_Sean> PReDiToR: not really.
[18:28] <IT_Sean> I'll get one down the line, perhaps.
[18:28] <Shiftplusone_s2> My order is now placed after the new orders even though I ordered years ago
[18:28] <passstab> no more then for the man in front
[18:28] * pitillo (~pitillo@99.Red-79-159-254.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:28] <PReDiToR> Yeah level playing field until they're in jiffy bags.
[18:29] * Kyzz (~quassel@cpe-24-166-81-109.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[18:29] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-36-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:29] <passstab> i still think there coming
[18:30] <mkopack> My real worry here is that with all these repeated delays and problems getting them out and into people's hands that 1) interest/excitement is waning, and 2) other products will come out and ship and steal a lot of the thunder...
[18:30] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-36-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:30] * PiBot sets mode +v des2
[18:30] <PReDiToR> I heard James Cameron was searching for the container ship that sunk ...
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[18:31] <mkopack> I still find it hilarious that Eben is giving this "How to set up and program with your RPi" talk on the 4th when NOBODY has the damn things...
[18:31] <Dagger2> mkopack: if other products do come out... that sounds like a win to me
[18:31] * rikai (~rikai@cpe-72-224-109-140.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:31] <mkopack> Dagger: Yes, win for US, not for the foundation and what they were trying to do though
[18:31] <ShiftPlusOne> time to cancel my pandora order, I think.
[18:32] <IT_Sean> There is no reason to expect that those that have preordered will get screwed over. Raspis will be distributed on the first come first ship basis that was established long ago.
[18:33] * Burninate_ (~ass@pool-173-66-4-34.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:34] <Dagger2> mkopack: they were trying to get cheap computers out there, and they'll succeed at that whether it ends up being their computers or someone else's
[18:34] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:34] <Dagger2> ... although their educational goals might take a hit if they have less money
[18:34] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:34] <CuriosTiger> I'm still buying a Pi.
[18:35] <PReDiToR> Put another 10 on Fleabay.
[18:35] * Matthew is now known as Guest20535
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> One of my major uses for the Pi just got substituted for an old laptop, I suspect.
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> Depending on if I ebay it.
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> I mean - sure - it uses more power.
[18:35] <IT_Sean> what use was that?
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> But - it's 8W - even with a display on.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Logging a mains power meter, 1-wire network for temperature sensing, and USB door-cam
[18:36] <IT_Sean> Ahh
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> and IRC
[18:36] <IT_Sean> Nifty.
[18:36] * IT_Sean should come up w/ a use for his old laptop, once his new latop arrives.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> ebay generally has decent residual values
[18:37] <IT_Sean> This laptop is not in great condition. It's pretty well dented in one corner.
[18:37] <IT_Sean> It's probably worth less than $100
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[18:40] * PiBot sets mode +v fakker
[18:40] <IT_Sean> Oooooh... BIG thunderstorm rolling through :D
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[18:56] <ukscone> http://youtu.be/NrRkZliIYR4 :)
[18:58] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-gld-kry-wat-139-28.winona.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:58] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.12.3.50) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[18:58] * pitillo (~pitillo@163.Red-79-148-211.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:59] <hotwings> mkopack - i think im going to just cancel my orders
[18:59] <passstab> why?
[18:59] <IT_Sean> ???
[18:59] <mkopack> Eh, I'd wait a couple days until we get some info about the testing. It could just be Newarks order system is retarded.
[19:00] <mkopack> After all, look how much the dates jumped around initially?
[19:00] <IT_Sean> Hold off 'till you know the test results.
[19:00] <mkopack> Now, if they come back and say "Yeah, we found a problem and are going to redesign the board" then I'd say "yeah, probably not worth waiting"
[19:00] <ReggieUK> Hi ukscone, nice acorn demo :)
[19:00] * pitillo (~pitillo@163.Red-79-148-211.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:01] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-gld-kry-wat-139-28.winona.edu) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:02] <mkopack> Ah, the guys on the #pandaboard channel gave me something else to try to get a lighter weight OS installed.. )
[19:02] <mkopack> Will have to try that tonight
[19:02] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-gld-kry-wat-139-28.winona.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:04] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[19:04] <ukscone> ReggieUK: it wasn't what i actually want running but starting with easier machines and codebases to slowly work up to beeb emulators and riscpc emulators. i have them mostly working too but qemu is playing silly buggers atm and buggy
[19:05] * tRank (~Fari@5ad45079.bb.sky.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[19:05] <ReggieUK> yeah, there's a bit of a toss up, fight with qemu or fight a build system :D
[19:05] <ReggieUK> I take it qemu is faithful on the rpi cpu speed?
[19:05] <ReggieUK> or can you unlock it and run it as fast as your cores will allow?
[19:06] <mjr> I don't think it generally restricts itself in any way...?
[19:06] <mjr> it probably won't be an issue that it'd be _faster_ than the Pi though
[19:08] <ukscone> yup it's 3 layers of emulation for a start so it is no way faster than a raspi
[19:09] <ReggieUK> ahh, forgot about all of that
[19:09] <hotwings> i tried to call newark just now.. no answer, strange.. so i emailed customer service about these august 16th ship dates.. to answer passstab, if theyre really pushed back that far then i'll likely cancel my order because im losing interest
[19:09] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-gld-kry-wat-139-28.winona.edu) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:09] <ReggieUK> so, in your opinion ukscone, which would you consider the quickest/easiest way to get stuff compiled?
[19:09] <passstab> thats sad :(
[19:09] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-gld-kry-wat-139-28.winona.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:09] * PiBot sets mode +v imnichol
[19:10] <mkopack> Hot: I hear ya, but at this point I don't think any of the sales people will know anything more than we do.
[19:10] <hotwings> repeatedly disappointing your customers has a way of causing them to lose interest and start looking at other products
[19:10] <ShiftPlusOne> ReggieUK, I've been very happy with sb2 so far... not much fighting involved.
[19:10] <ukscone> ReggieUK: sb2 makes life really simple until we get real raspi's even then i'll probably use it as i'll use sbrsh rather than qemu -- qemu is weak link in sb2
[19:10] <ReggieUK> hotwings, unless they cancel it completely then I for one won't lose interest
[19:11] <hotwings> chasing vaporware isnt fun to me
[19:11] <ReggieUK> stop chasing it then
[19:11] <ReggieUK> Since I got my dad to do the order I haven't once asked him for an update
[19:11] <ReggieUK> he's told me the shipping date (Which I've forgotten)
[19:11] <ukscone> from the rumours i am hearing the aug. 16th date is a spreadsheet error when updating a db some ppl will be that long but not all
[19:11] <hotwings> i _just_ said ill likely cancel my orders if its been delayed another 4.5 months
[19:12] <ReggieUK> avtually you said:
[19:12] <ReggieUK> <+hotwings> repeatedly disappointing your customers has a way of causing them to lose interest and start looking at other products
[19:12] <ReggieUK> which is what I was responding to :)
[19:12] <ReggieUK> and the chasing vaporware comment :)
[19:13] <hotwings> ...............
[19:13] <hotwings> [10:08:07] <hotwings> i tried to call newark just now.. no answer, strange.. so i emailed customer service about these august 16th ship dates.. to answer passstab, if theyre really pushed back that far then i'll likely cancel my order because im losing interest
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[19:13] * PiBot sets mode +v chod
[19:13] <mkopack> Eh, cut him slack guys.. it's his money??? If he doesn't see the point in waiting, that's his choice???
[19:13] <hotwings> we'll see what newark has to say
[19:14] <ReggieUK> not denying you said that, just that I was responding to your next comment
[19:14] <hotwings> i prefer projects i can actually work on, not ponder working on
[19:14] <hotwings> maybe ill follow mkopack's lead and order a pandaboard
[19:15] <ReggieUK> I've already got other stuff I'm working on so it's no biggie to me whenever the pi turns up
[19:15] <mkopack> hot: From what I'm seeing it looks like the Beagle XM isn't that different from the PandaES, so you might want to save yourself a little $$.
[19:15] <ReggieUK> and the other stuff I'm working on, I can probably apply to the pi anyway, so again, not losing out on anything
[19:16] * matthiasb (matthias@188-23-85-55.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[19:16] <mkopack> I wanted/needed the CPU power which is why I went for the P-ES.
[19:16] <hotwings> yeah, helps to stay busy
[19:17] <traeak> funny my wife lost her purse and cancelled my credit card
[19:17] <traeak> sol effectively i"cancelled" my order
[19:17] <traeak> hehe
[19:17] <hotwings> mko - im willing to pay a little more for faster compiles, if the added cost isnt insane
[19:18] <mkopack> traeak: chances are you'll be contacted and asked for new payment info.
[19:18] <mkopack> given the delays, think about how many people's CC's will expire before their order gets billed??? They're going to have to do something like that
[19:19] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, is this cromulent? sb2 PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/home/shift/dev/archlinuxarm-01-03-2012/rootfs/usr/lib/pkgconfig/ ./configure --prefix=/usr
[19:20] <ukscone> looks ok
[19:20] <ReggieUK> ShiftPlusOne, is there a scratchbox tutorial for the pi lurking about anywhere?
[19:21] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone's blog
[19:21] <ReggieUK> gummiworm blog or a seperate pi based one?
[19:21] <ukscone> ReggieUK: there isn't really any documentation for sb2 of any kind except a few setup docs around the web
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[19:22] <datagutt> i knew i forgot to join this channel after setting up my irc client again
[19:23] <ukscone> ReggieUK: but for 75% of the time defualts for everything work it's only when you are doing something fancy like shifty over there that it gets messy
[19:23] <ShiftPlusOne> don't worry you didn't miss out on much, just bitching.
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[19:24] <ReggieUK> ukscone, 90% of the stuff I've been messing with contains shifty type work :)
[19:24] <ShiftPlusOne> ukscone, though pkgconfig outside of emulation now gives cflags for freetype2 as -I/usr/include/freetype2. Shouldn't that be -I/home/shift/blahbakldsfhasldjkfhwdef/usr/include/freetype2 ?
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[19:25] <ukscone> ShiftPlusOne: should have done but it looks like somethign when wrong
[19:25] <ukscone> brb
[19:25] <ShiftPlusOne> the thing is it still compiles =/
[19:26] <ShiftPlusOne> ah 'cause it's just header files, so it would be the same
[19:27] <ShiftPlusOne> though that still looks like host env mixing with the dev env =/
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[19:55] * ragna_ (~ragna@e180091026.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:56] * tRank (~Fari@5ad45079.bb.sky.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:57] * tRank (~Fari@5ad45079.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:57] * PiBot sets mode +v tRank
[19:58] * ragna (~ragna@e180048174.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:02] * tRank (~Fari@5ad45079.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[20:03] <IT_Sean> Awe... now it's getting sunny out. That little thunderstorm was just a big tease
[20:03] * tRank (~Fari@5ad45079.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:03] * PiBot sets mode +v tRank
[20:04] <ukscone> IT_Sean: yeah and the 30seconds of rain was a poor showing for mother nature too
[20:04] <ukscone> why bother
[20:04] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[20:05] <IT_Sean> Exactly.
[20:05] * IT_Sean likes a good thunderstorm.
[20:05] * IT_Sean was disapointed in both the ferocity and duration of that little storm
[20:05] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[20:06] * johnLAPACHE (~lpche@juv34-1-82-225-182-193.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:06] * PiBot sets mode +v johnLAPACHE
[20:10] <ReggieUK> IT_Sean, the weather has been lovely though hasn't it?
[20:11] <IT_Sean> Other than the past couple of cold days, yes, it has.
[20:11] <ReggieUK> 100 years of summer in 2days in scotland :D
[20:11] <IT_Sean> O_o
[20:11] <ReggieUK> I'm exaggerating
[20:11] <ReggieUK> but they did beat a couple of temp records 2 days running
[20:11] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[20:11] <IT_Sean> oh
[20:12] <IT_Sean> awesome
[20:12] <ReggieUK> 22.something
[20:12] <ReggieUK> c that is!
[20:12] <IT_Sean> Last week, and two weeks ago, it was sooo lovely and warm here.
[20:12] <IT_Sean> This past week has been cool.
[20:12] * IT_Sean prefers warmer weather.
[20:12] <ReggieUK> It's been very clear here
[20:12] * cypher708 (cypher707@89.181.193.16) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:12] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher708
[20:12] <ReggieUK> so it's been nice and warm during the day, with a bit of a breeze and a bit chillier at night
[20:12] * Kostic (~Kostic@net24-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Kostic
[20:14] * cypher707 (cypher707@89.181.192.104) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:14] * netcarver (~netcarver@31.185.238.172) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:14] * PiBot sets mode +v netcarver
[20:15] * Kostic (~Kostic@net24-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[20:16] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-67-188-110-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[20:19] <ShiftPlusOne> btw, a tweet from liz says the august shipping date is wrong.... for those who care.
[20:21] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[20:21] <mkopack> Ah, well, maybe that's why the thread about it on the forums got deleted???
[20:21] <mkopack> Was there a response saying when they WOULD go out though?
[20:21] <mkopack> It certainly has been a perpetual comedy of errors with this thing, hasn't it?
[20:22] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:23] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:23] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[20:24] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:26] * zleap (~psutton@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:26] * PiBot sets mode +v zleap
[20:26] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-120-144-42-68.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:28] <markus> http://vimeo.com/39286771 forget about raspi, this is the new thing
[20:28] <markus> more info: http://dmitry.co/index.php?p=./04.Thoughts/07.%20Linux%20on%208bit
[20:28] * Guest60258 (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:28] * mike__ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:28] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:30] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:30] * PiBot sets mode +v mikey_w
[20:31] * mike_ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:31] * PiBot sets mode +v mike_
[20:31] * mike_ is now known as Guest62454
[20:31] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:31] * PiBot sets mode +v hamitron
[20:32] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:32] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[20:33] * beardface (a7cebd06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.167.206.189.6) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:33] * PiBot sets mode +v beardface
[20:35] * imnichol (~ian@somsen-129-165.winona.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:35] * PiBot sets mode +v imnichol
[20:36] <beardface> Aug 16??
[20:36] <beardface> WTF
[20:36] <beardface> Cancelling
[20:39] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:39] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
[20:39] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[20:39] <Matt> I think Liz should be on here :)
[20:40] <Matt> like she doesn't have anything better to be doing :)
[20:40] <IT_Sean> What, so that everyone can shout at her for the raspi delays?
[20:41] <IT_Sean> Besides, The Foundation want's nothing to do with #raspberrypi
[20:41] <IT_Sean> Hense our "unofficial" status
[20:41] <PaulFertser> AT least she could have clarified if there was an agreement on distributing non-certified boards or not.
[20:41] <cjbaird> Meh. Enough Beaglebonar weenies doing that already in other public forums.. :P
[20:42] * cypher707 (cypher707@89-181-193-112.net.novis.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:42] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher707
[20:42] * piless (5ec5605e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.197.96.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:42] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[20:42] <piless> is it out yet?
[20:43] <hamitron> seems even pibot has lost interest ;)
[20:43] * IT_Sean shoots piless in the foot with a pellet gun
[20:43] <piless> hamitron: she lost interest a while ago
[20:43] <piless> yes pibot is a she
[20:44] * zleap (~psutton@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[20:44] * cypher708 (cypher707@89.181.193.16) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:44] <PaulFertser> cjbaird: the reason i ask is that i can hardly believe farnell didn't know in advance the boards were not certified and yet they seem to have agreed to participate. And now it looks like they "suddenly" changed their minds. So probably RPiF is not to blame here.
[20:44] <beardface> I lost interest
[20:44] <beardface> the only interest now is to see if they ever deliver
[20:44] <hamitron> I think I'll order one sometime
[20:45] <hamitron> but not rush
[20:45] <hamitron> ;)
[20:46] <piless> a lot of these bare-board systems are sold uncertified, it's probably because of the numbers sold that they need to be certified.
[20:47] <PaulFertser> Everybody knew all the numbers well in advance.
[20:47] <piless> hamitron: from the looks of it, if you order one now you probably won't see it for 5 years
[20:47] <mkopack> Damn, this thing is impressive??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAs2F4sFVdA
[20:47] <piless> mkopack: faaaaaaaaaaaaake
[20:48] <mkopack> Nah, actually in the previous videos, you see how it's assembled
[20:48] <piless> you can tell by the pixels
[20:48] <piless> clearly cgi
[20:48] <mkopack> It's pretty awesome, especially since he posts up the files to print all the pieces on Thingverse
[20:52] <IT_Sean> Dammit... it's wednesday, innit?
[20:52] <mkopack> Yup
[20:52] <hamitron> all day
[20:52] <hamitron> ;/
[20:52] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:52] <piless> no
[20:52] <IT_Sean> Belgum! :/
[20:53] <IT_Sean> My dry cleaner closes early on Wednesday
[20:53] <mkopack> You know what that means???. Hump Day on the Chive :)
[20:53] <IT_Sean> O_o
[20:53] <mkopack> semi NSFW: http://thechive.com/2012/03/28/hump-day-makes-the-pain-go-away-60-photos/
[20:53] <mkopack> It's like that every wed :)
[20:54] <piless> hmm google maps has updated
[20:54] <piless> http://googleblog.blogspot.se/2012/03/crossing-50-billion-km-mark-and-giving.html
[20:54] <piless> mkopack: dude it's pg13
[20:54] <mkopack> There's no nudity
[20:55] <piless> dat ass
[20:56] * tRank (~Fari@5ad45079.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[20:56] <PaulFertser> Kids should learn to distinguish between a good ass and a bad ass you know
[20:56] <piless> flat ass = bad ass
[20:57] <piless> fat ass = bad ass
[20:57] <piless> V
[20:57] <piless> http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/great-ass-51.jpg?w=500 = great ass
[20:57] * titch515 (~titch515@19.60.113.87.dyn.plus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:57] * PiBot sets mode +v titch515
[20:59] * Delboy_1 is now known as Delboy_
[20:59] <mkopack> LOL, I love this pic (PG) http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/chive-friday-34.jpg
[21:00] <piless> mkopack: it's fake, look at the reflection
[21:01] * smjms (~janne@188-67-32-163.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:01] * smjms (~janne@188-67-32-163.bb.dnainternet.fi) Quit (Changing host)
[21:01] * smjms (~janne@pdpc/supporter/student/kosiini) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:01] * PiBot sets mode +v smjms
[21:01] * PiBot sets mode +v smjms
[21:01] <mkopack> Oh, I know, but it's still funny!
[21:01] * imnichol (~ian@somsen-129-165.winona.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:02] <piless> mkopack: he looks like the guy out of community
[21:03] <beardface> Promising: https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=Raspberry_Pi
[21:03] <beardface> but we'll see
[21:03] <piless> I stopped believing what comes out of liz
[21:03] <beardface> yeah
[21:04] <beardface> when the rpi is in my hand, then i'll give them any credit
[21:04] <beardface> for now, they have 0 credibility
[21:06] <piless> Even if you got one it probably wouldn't be very stable.. I expect that the factory completely scammed them
[21:07] <beardface> You get what you pay for
[21:07] <beardface> well, except in the case of raspberry pi
[21:07] <beardface> then you don't get anything
[21:07] <piless> up for a law suit if they don't follow through?
[21:07] <mkopack> Well, to be fair, your credit card hasn't been charged yet, so you technically haven't paid for anything either
[21:08] <beardface> no
[21:08] <beardface> suing would make you worse then rpi
[21:08] * petschge (~petschge@tretboot.petschge.de) has left #raspberrypi
[21:08] <piless> So?
[21:08] <beardface> it hasn't been charged?
[21:08] <beardface> nice, didn't notice that
[21:08] <piless> Someones gotta be the bad guy.
[21:08] <beardface> yup, not me
[21:08] <IT_Sean> beardface: you have not yet been charged for anything
[21:09] <IT_Sean> You will not be charged until your order actually shipps.
[21:09] <mkopack> Yeah, usually your card never gets charged until they actually ship product
[21:09] <IT_Sean> So relax
[21:09] <beardface> < is relaxed
[21:09] <beardface> didn't know it hadn't been charged, like i just said
[21:09] <IT_Sean> You may see a pre-authorization, but, you haven't actually been charged.
[21:09] <piless> beardface: afaik, they authenticated the payments which means they check whether the funds are available but they haven't actually processed the transactions
[21:09] <mkopack> They might do an Authorization check, but that's just to be sure that there ARE funds available and the card isn't stolen
[21:09] <beardface> mkopack: good to know, never used element14 before
[21:10] <piless> wish there was an amazon option
[21:10] <mkopack> beard :That's actually pretty universal when you order things from reputable companies that take online sales...
[21:11] <beardface> i guess i never noticed b/c typically i never backorder
[21:12] <piofcube> Apart from the r-pi, last time I backordered anything it was from Rapid and I had to wait 3 days
[21:12] <piless> they should really hire a decent web designer, the current raspi website has way too much of a blogger vibe
[21:12] <piless> the static design when the main site was down was pretty good
[21:13] <piofcube> piless: I'm sure many people would volunteer... They would have to be sure they got the right person in but I bet many legit designers would do it for free with just a little acknowledgement
[21:14] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:14] * PiBot sets mode +v ShiftPlusOne
[21:16] * oclet_ (oclet@173.225.25.5) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[21:17] * imnichol (~ian@wifi-som-max-mem-phl-134-180.winona.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] * PiBot sets mode +v imnichol
[21:25] <ReggieUK> I suspect that they're just not that bothered myself :)
[21:25] <ReggieUK> as a website, it is one :)
[21:27] * jamesglanville (~james@62.49.187.64) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:27] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
[21:28] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:29] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:29] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[21:32] <steve_rox> think the whole exsitement of the PI died away for mes :-/
[21:33] * [XeN] (~XenGi@cpe-001a4ff1d981.ip-pool.rftonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:33] * PiBot sets mode +v [XeN]
[21:35] <haltdef> yea I just bought a pandaboard
[21:35] <haltdef> curiosity satisfied now
[21:35] <mkopack> halt: ES or reg?
[21:35] <haltdef> ES ofc
[21:35] <mkopack> oh. duh.
[21:35] <mkopack> when you said "just" I was thinking "just now"
[21:35] <mkopack> lol
[21:36] * titch515 (~titch515@19.60.113.87.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[21:37] <steve_rox> whats the pandabords cpu , arm?
[21:37] <haltdef> dual core cortax A9
[21:37] <mkopack> Arm v7 dual core cortex A9
[21:37] <steve_rox> ah
[21:37] <mkopack> 1.2ghz if you get the PandaES
[21:37] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] * PiBot sets mode +v phantoxe
[21:38] <mkopack> so quite a bit faster than the RPi
[21:38] <steve_rox> anything available with x86 cpus?
[21:39] <steve_rox> think id miss win xp :-P
[21:39] <mkopack> There are the ITX and miniITX and nanoITX boards??? those are x86...
[21:40] <steve_rox> im a xp rebble , bollocks to ya vista7's :-D
[21:40] <steve_rox> yeah but they seem more expensive
[21:40] <mkopack> well, yeah.
[21:40] <mkopack> and use more power too (IIRC)
[21:40] <mkopack> but you said you wanted x86 :)
[21:40] <steve_rox> yeah
[21:41] <steve_rox> spose if they make some usefull OS for the PI maybe it wont be a issue
[21:41] <piless> there won't be any useful OS for the pi
[21:42] <piofcube> there's the flashlite 186.. LOL 33MHz 186 CPU 512kflash and 512K dram... for only $83
[21:42] <mkopack> the debian build was decent from what I saw on the QEMU
[21:42] <piless> there's massive input lag on the beta boards
[21:42] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:43] <steve_rox> dident they say they were going to try get riscos on the pi?
[21:43] <steve_rox> someone did i think
[21:43] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:43] <steve_rox> we can go play that game of lander again :-D
[21:43] <mkopack> yeah, they're supposedly working on it, but I assume it's slow going without actual boards. There's also Arch
[21:44] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[21:44] <Matt> is riscos still around?
[21:44] <steve_rox> i used to have a few games for it on disk like lemmings :-D
[21:45] <steve_rox> and if you maniplated its loading screen just right you could make it play the lemmings music non stop even if you close the game
[21:45] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:45] <piless> there's riscos for the panda
[21:46] * linlin (linlin@173.243.115.75) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:46] <steve_rox> there was some game on riscos called "prime-solve" or "primesolver" cute lil game i cant find a trace of it online
[21:47] <steve_rox> thing is i have a floppy disk with it on somewhere just hope the disk is still functional
[21:48] <piless> steve_rox: the pi doesn't have a floppy drive
[21:48] <steve_rox> doesent matter
[21:48] <mkopack> Do you even have anything that can READ the floppy?? LOL
[21:48] <steve_rox> id get some other tool to read it to image
[21:48] * linlin (linlin@173.243.115.75) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:48] * PiBot sets mode +v linlin
[21:48] <piless> I have a usb floppy drive somewhere
[21:49] <steve_rox> i think it used high density drives or some shit
[21:49] <mjr> got USB floppy drives at work
[21:49] <mjr> tried to read a couple of old disks with it. Partial success, but the disks (or the drive) were in a pretty bad condition
[21:49] <steve_rox> my pc has a floppy drive in it however the mainboard does not support it , so i just left it in to fill the gap
[21:49] <mkopack> Yeah, I actually have an old USB floppy drive hooked up to my Mac pro just so I can load up some old 3.5" floppies that had some cool dos games on them like X-Wing
[21:50] <piless> I once had to install xp with floppies
[21:50] <steve_rox> wow :-P
[21:50] <mkopack> OUCH
[21:50] <steve_rox> hope it was a Nlite version
[21:50] <piless> because the computer couldn't boot off cd
[21:50] <mkopack> I DO remember installing OS/2 3.11 using floppies??? like 33 of them??? took FOREVER
[21:50] <Matt> my first few linux installs were done from floppy
[21:50] <steve_rox> i have some win3.1 floppys around here somehere
[21:51] <Matt> even tho I had it in CD, I didn't have a CDROM in the system I was installing it on
[21:51] <chod> riscos came on roms
[21:51] <steve_rox> when it came to the issue of not havein a cd drive to install windows i would copy the setup files to a spare hdd and slave it on the target pc and run off that :-P
[21:51] <Matt> so you had to rawrite every disk
[21:51] <steve_rox> it was my win95 installer hdd :-P
[21:51] <mkopack> Yes, I remember seeing people in the Dorms at GaTech carrying around stacks of floppies with Slackware 0.1 on them
[21:51] <Matt> then eventually I got a cdrom :)
[21:52] <Matt> one of the panasonic dual speed drives that hooked up to your soundcard :)
[21:52] <mkopack> Hell, it was faster to copy the Win95 stuff off the CD onto the HD and install from there!
[21:52] <piofcube> I have a set of WinNT4 discs somewhere... about 48 of them i think
[21:52] <mkopack> Yup, I had one of those!
[21:52] <mkopack> before ATAPI standard came around
[21:52] <Matt> then it was just a matter of booting the system from a boot disk with the sbpcd enabled kernel
[21:52] <steve_rox> the fun of early installations :-)
[21:52] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:52] * PiBot sets mode +v ShiftPlusOne
[21:52] <steve_rox> installing windows off a usb device is a pisser i tell ya
[21:53] <mkopack> The kids these days are spoiled. Have no idea the hoops we used to jump through
[21:53] <Matt> then before all these livecd distros came about, I used to carry around a set of floppys with muLinux
[21:53] <steve_rox> setup goes stupid and cant figure out what to install it to
[21:53] * [XeN] (~XenGi@cpe-001a4ff1d981.ip-pool.rftonline.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:53] <Matt> had a little disk box that held 5 disks
[21:53] <steve_rox> well yea ms has sugar coated everything now
[21:53] <Matt> worked really well :)
[21:53] <steve_rox> and shackled us in
[21:54] <steve_rox> back in them days manufacturers were more adventious
[21:54] <Matt> I wonder if mulinux is still available...
[21:54] <piofcube> Vista had big problems with SATA CD/DVD drives
[21:54] <steve_rox> vista had problems with everything
[21:54] <steve_rox> maybe that was the times of early sata cdrom drives
[21:54] <Matt> yes, yes it is
[21:54] <Matt> http://www.micheleandreoli.it/mulinux/
[21:54] <Matt> grown a little since I last used it too :)
[21:55] <steve_rox> when sata cdrom first came out the bios's went ape shit unable to detect them
[21:55] <mkopack> Vista itself WAS a problem
[21:55] <steve_rox> heh
[21:55] <piofcube> I LOLed when I first saw a VISTA T-Shirt "Microsoft Vista: Viruses Infections Spyware Trojans Adware" LOL
[21:55] <mkopack> LOL
[21:55] * will (linlin@173.243.115.75) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:55] * PiBot sets mode +v will
[21:55] <steve_rox> i think the genral internet refered to vista as windows "a pig with lipstick on"
[21:56] * will is now known as Guest69534
[21:56] <piofcube> which end had the lipstick on?
[21:56] <steve_rox> :-P
[21:56] * linlin (linlin@173.243.115.75) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:56] <steve_rox> i think it may of been refereing to the airo 3d bullshit
[21:56] <steve_rox> that kinda shit dont impress me
[21:57] <piofcube> Yeah it can get annoying quite quickly
[21:57] <mkopack> just adds more space requirements, slows down the whole OS
[21:57] <steve_rox> i still say some the ppl from the xbox department accedently got into windows dev department and turned it into eyecandy
[21:57] <mkopack> I honestly would still have been using Win2000 if stuff didn't start REQUIRING XP
[21:58] <mkopack> 2000 was FAST, small, relatively stable...
[21:58] <mkopack> Not a lot of BS whiz=bang crap
[21:58] <piofcube> 2K was good
[21:58] <steve_rox> 2k is fast
[21:58] <steve_rox> i think in its day businesses loved it while home customers were 9x kernal
[21:58] <mkopack> the first thing I do on every XP machine I use is set it back to W2K L&F
[21:58] <fragalot> ^ same
[21:58] <fragalot> lol
[21:59] <Matt> I don't mind the XP L&F
[21:59] <ReggieUK> w2k l&F?
[21:59] <steve_rox> whats a L&F :-P
[21:59] <fragalot> ReggieUK: layout & feel
[21:59] <Matt> look and feel
[21:59] <mkopack> Even Windows 7 I turn most of the crap off and go to as minimal as I can
[21:59] <fragalot> er look
[21:59] <ReggieUK> oooh
[21:59] <steve_rox> i cant stand that login screen on vista7
[21:59] * wjoe (~joe@lc8n.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:59] <Matt> although I have to say I do like the search box in the windows 7 start menu
[21:59] <steve_rox> if it was like xp/2k id be okay with it
[21:59] <piofcube> One thing I hate about installing windows is having to go in and change loads of settings like "hide file extensions" etc
[22:00] <steve_rox> but no its a huge blue welcome screen
[22:00] * sco` (~sco`@94.27.67.89) has left #raspberrypi
[22:00] <ReggieUK> look and feel on vista/7 is fine, it's xp's bubblegum look that really grinds my gears
[22:00] <steve_rox> perhaps to hide the fact its still loading in the background
[22:00] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:00] * PiBot sets mode +v discomeats
[22:00] <Matt> I need to go kick my XP install again
[22:00] <Matt> damn thing takes like half an hour to boot and settle down
[22:01] <steve_rox> i think vista7 hides its loading time behind that welcome screen
[22:01] <piofcube> I refused to touch XP until SP2 came out
[22:01] <mkopack> likewise
[22:01] <steve_rox> i want that welcome screen gone without a autologin
[22:02] <steve_rox> "welcome" , who wants to see that every time they boot?
[22:02] <steve_rox> is the OS trying to come onto us?
[22:02] <steve_rox> dont get emotiona with me vista7 do what ya ment to do :-P
[22:02] <steve_rox> heh
[22:02] <piofcube> almost as bad as seeing "preparing to run windows for the first time"... especially when you've seen it a million times already
[22:02] <steve_rox> hmmm
[22:03] <steve_rox> that one dident bother me much
[22:03] <steve_rox> wonder if the files can be hexed to remove that welcome text
[22:03] <piofcube> Tends to be annoying when you're re-installing because of some mess-up by windows itself
[22:03] <IT_Sean> change it to "Why are you installing windows!!!? :O "
[22:04] <piofcube> LOL
[22:04] <steve_rox> well i allways wanted to hex "windows just got better" in win98 install to "windows just got shitter!"
[22:04] <mkopack> 98, esp spa was WAYYYY better than 95!
[22:05] * Pitel (~pitel@ip-94-113-20-150.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: KTHXBYE)
[22:05] <piofcube> Maybe the problem with Windows is they allow anyone to invent it.. including hairdressers, gardeners and other non-computer professionals LOL
[22:05] <IT_Sean> mkopack: saying that windows 98 is better than windows 95 is like saying that horse poo is better than cow poo. It may be better, but, it's still poo.
[22:05] <steve_rox> 9x was fragile at times , but it could cope with error file systems/hdd better than ntfs
[22:05] * sco` (~sco`@94.27.67.89) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:05] * PiBot sets mode +v sco`
[22:06] <piofcube> you get straw mixed in with horse poo though... that's an added value
[22:06] <mkopack> Well, at the time it wasn't bad??? granted, yes, it crashed??? But if you wanted to game on the PC it was THE OS
[22:06] * sco` (~sco`@94.27.67.89) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:06] <mkopack> at least until 2000 came out
[22:06] <steve_rox> at the end of the day a new windows os translates to your pc will run shitter and demand more ram
[22:06] <mkopack> WinMe was an Abortion
[22:06] <IT_Sean> windows ME SHOULD have been aborted. That's fer damn sure.
[22:06] <steve_rox> haha
[22:06] <Matt> aye
[22:07] <IT_Sean> Vista, too.
[22:07] <Matt> I think I only ever had to deal with one machine running ME
[22:07] <steve_rox> they tryed to pull off a windows Me with vista , but since the internet can speak more everyone rebeled aggenst it
[22:07] <haltdef> vista was far better than xp
[22:07] <IT_Sean> No it was not.
[22:07] <Matt> no, vista was awful
[22:07] <IT_Sean> I'd rather wee into my own eyeballs than use Vista.
[22:07] <haltdef> I wasn't even running it on high end hardware, felt fast to me
[22:07] <steve_rox> indeed
[22:07] <haltdef> slow file transfers aside
[22:08] <IT_Sean> XP>Vista
[22:08] <ReggieUK> IT_Sean, I bet you've practised that too haven't you?
[22:08] <haltdef> made use of the GPU for window drawing, far better audio stack, improved wifi stack, better start menu
[22:08] <ShiftPlusOne> lol.... vista.
[22:08] <steve_rox> i felt sorry for the salesmen in shops trying to pitch and sell vista to ppl
[22:08] <IT_Sean> ReggieUK: actually, no.
[22:08] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:08] <ReggieUK> lies
[22:08] <mkopack> I just love how MS STILL hasn't implemented HALF the stuff that they had planned for Vista....
[22:08] <mkopack> And doesn't look like it's getting into 8 either!
[22:08] <steve_rox> ms are a bit of a joke lately
[22:08] <mkopack> That whole Metro UI is going to be a joke and piss a LOT of people off
[22:08] <steve_rox> windows8:suicide eddition
[22:09] <haltdef> if I can't disable metro entirely on my laptop I will not be using it
[22:09] <IT_Sean> "Windows 8. For when you are ready to just give up on life"
[22:09] <haltdef> let the tablet users have a new UI, great
[22:09] <haltdef> don't force it on real users
[22:09] <mkopack> MS got it's ass handed to it by Apple, and then Google, and is totally playing "we're still relevant" when in reality, they're not. They're just something people have grown to accept they have on their machines. They don't care about the version
[22:09] * wjoe (~joe@lc8n.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:09] * PiBot sets mode +v wjoe
[22:09] * IT_Sean doesn't do windows.
[22:09] <steve_rox> when they fuck around with the start menus in vista/7 that pissed me off enough to make me wanna stay away , and now they wanna remove it all together
[22:10] <haltdef> yeah, almost nobody still buys their software
[22:10] <haltdef> totally irrelevant company and products
[22:10] <Matt> I try not to, but it's an occupational hazard working as an IT consultant
[22:10] * pitillo (~pitillo@133.Red-88-13-101.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:10] <haltdef> derp
[22:10] <steve_rox> think its sad how apple are destroying the pc market/industry
[22:10] <steve_rox> DRM peices of shit
[22:10] <mkopack> Well, I just mean - MS is no longer the company driving the innovation and being renowned as the mindshare leader coming out with the cool new ideas
[22:10] <Matt> let's not get back onto this again :)
[22:11] <steve_rox> hmmmz
[22:11] <IT_Sean> don't turn this into an Apple v MS debate.
[22:11] <steve_rox> yeah ms dont invent , they plunder
[22:11] <IT_Sean> please.
[22:11] <steve_rox> bit like the borg
[22:11] <IT_Sean> MS are actually pretty Borg-esque.
[22:11] <Matt> steve_rox: embrace and extend
[22:11] <IT_Sean> We are Microsoft. Your PC will be assimilated.
[22:11] <IT_Sean> Resistance is irritating.
[22:12] <steve_rox> the borg were allmost defeated by 8472 because their genetic structure
[22:12] <IT_Sean> What has that got to do with MS?
[22:12] <Matt> you know, I think I have a solution to everyone's problems
[22:12] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:12] * PiBot sets mode +v eyveer
[22:12] <IT_Sean> Oh?
[22:12] * Matt goes to put the kettle on
[22:12] <steve_rox> perhaps something geneticaly supriour will come allong and rape ms
[22:12] <IT_Sean> Does it involve a linux install disk, Matt?
[22:13] <steve_rox> i think his solution is tea
[22:13] <steve_rox> seems valid
[22:13] <IT_Sean> It's actually a pretty decent idea.
[22:13] <IT_Sean> I'd go for a cup of tea now, except that i'd have to pee halfway home.
[22:13] <Matt> IT_Sean: no, it involves a kettle full of boiling water and the teapot :)
[22:13] <steve_rox> least its one thing we all agree on
[22:14] <steve_rox> so whats ms grand plan with metro shit? that we all get touch screen?
[22:14] <Matt> steve_rox: like I said, the solution to everyone's problems :)
[22:14] <steve_rox> :-P
[22:14] <steve_rox> i thought ms boasted windows7 was touchscreen or something
[22:14] <IT_Sean> YAY! My new laptop shipped today! :D :D :D
[22:15] * pitillo (~pitillo@227.Red-83-35-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:15] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[22:15] <steve_rox> i dont see any pc's being sold with touchscreens
[22:15] <mkopack> Sean: Congrats! ^5
[22:15] <steve_rox> and technically windows98 and above can support touch screen with the aid of a driver
[22:15] <steve_rox> wankers
[22:16] <IT_Sean> My new laptop 'll have a touchscreen
[22:16] <IT_Sean> It won't be running Windows, though.
[22:17] <steve_rox> intersting they say if you dont accept the licence with a laptop with windows on it you can get refunded the licence ammount
[22:18] <steve_rox> not sure if they closed that loophole yet tho
[22:18] <IT_Sean> I'll try it, but, no biggie if it doesn't work.
[22:18] <steve_rox> worth a try
[22:18] <steve_rox> gotta exploit ms for all the money at the end of the day
[22:19] <steve_rox> since they are faceless corprations
[22:19] <steve_rox> and are un-cool ;-)
[22:19] * pitillo (~pitillo@227.Red-83-35-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:20] <IT_Sean> Yup
[22:20] <IT_Sean> heh
[22:21] <Matt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5XX9LX2es4
[22:21] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] * PiBot sets mode +v esotera
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[22:22] * PiBot sets mode +v zleap
[22:23] <steve_rox> i see apple are destined to attack the uk tv branded channel called ITV
[22:25] * pitillo (~pitillo@107.Red-83-55-143.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:25] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[22:26] <esotera> why are they going after itv?
[22:26] <steve_rox> cos they wanna deploy their own tv called Itv
[22:26] <piofcube> iPad, iPhone... They tried to get iTV but failed
[22:27] <steve_rox> will apple attempt another dirty trick on ITV who knows
[22:27] <steve_rox> but the itv tv station has been brordcasting for many years at least 25+
[22:28] * Guest69534 is now known as linlin
[22:28] <mkopack> Eh, that already have the appleTv name, they'll probably just use that
[22:30] <steve_rox> i think the common apple tactic is to ban rival devices clameing they infinge on patients
[22:30] <steve_rox> patient trolls
[22:30] <mkopack> I believe those are called Liability Lawyers :)
[22:30] <haltdef> rofl
[22:30] <steve_rox> or scumbags
[22:31] <mkopack> aka: ambulance chaisers
[22:31] <haltdef> patient trolls
[22:31] <haltdef> I get it
[22:31] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:31] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[22:32] <mkopack> I don't get so much concerned about apple pulling the "patent infringement" card, since they're defending their actual products. I get annoyed when some company that doesn't actually MAKE ANYTHING but owns some obscure patent goes and sues a bunch of companies just trying to get money out of them...
[22:34] <steve_rox> patient landmine squatters
[22:36] <mkopack> PATENT. not Patient :)
[22:36] <Matt> if you're squatting on a landmine, you better be flippin patient
[22:37] <steve_rox> indeed
[22:37] <mkopack> If you aren't, then you're going to become one!
[22:39] * zer0her0 (~zer0her0@cpe-74-76-225-89.nycap.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:45] <DaQatz> Yes but both apple and ms patent things that have been used for many years before their products supported them.
[22:45] <DaQatz> And then sue the creators.
[22:46] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, because if Apple's patent claims were all upheld, phones wouldn't be allowed to be rectengular.
[22:46] <mkopack> Well, blame the patent system for not doing it's job then
[22:46] <ShiftPlusOne> or have flat surfaces
[22:46] <ShiftPlusOne> or a screen
[22:47] <mjr> apple has done and does way more than "defend their actual products"
[22:47] * dormant (~dormant@d54C1A06E.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:48] <steve_rox> dont they patent the rights to have rounded edges too?
[22:48] <piofcube> It's like the cold war all over again... both sides with a huge arsenal of patents to protect themselves... But these days it just makes it so much more difficult for smaller companies to get anywhere
[22:49] <steve_rox> spose they will try patent the wheel soon and try sue everyone that makes or draws one without approved licenceing
[22:49] <steve_rox> anyone that doesent have the licences is a pirate
[22:50] <piofcube> Yeah, like the patent on the mouse which has a wheel... :S LOL
[22:50] <mkopack> The whole situation in the phone market is a F'ing mess???
[22:50] <mkopack> There was a diagram a while back that showed all the players and who was suing who??? It looked like a spider web!
[22:50] <steve_rox> or a mesh
[22:50] <steve_rox> network mesh
[22:50] * flaushy (~nooon@p5798DC7A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:50] * PiBot sets mode +v flaushy
[22:51] <mkopack> And in the end, it's all about 1 thing - MONEY. (well, money and Marketshare)
[22:51] <mkopack> yeah
[22:51] <piofcube> and marketshare just equates to money in the end
[22:51] <mkopack> It's like there wasn't a single one that wasn't either suing somebody else or getting sued
[22:51] <steve_rox> faceless corperation scumbags
[22:51] <steve_rox> i wonder how much ms got suied for today
[22:52] <ShiftPlusOne> woo... CEGUI with the GLES rendered and SDL 1.2 with GLES support all nice and compiled. =D
[22:52] <mkopack> What happened with MS today?
[22:52] <steve_rox> since when is there nothing happening with em
[22:53] * flaushy_ (~nooon@p5798D3A3.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:54] <IT_Sean> Bye
[22:54] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
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[22:54] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
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[22:54] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz_
[22:55] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@c-76-19-35-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Done)
[22:56] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[22:58] * SpeedEvil ponders patenting 'A device with sensors directly or indirectly sensing one or more of the weak, strong, electromagnetic and gravitic force, with a computing element, and actuators driven by the results of the computing element utilising one or more of the aforementioned interactions'
[23:02] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[23:03] * Threepio (~Threepio@mail.blinkmediaworks.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:03] <DaQatz> Yay SpeedEvil yes patent magnetic hard drives
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[23:04] <DaQatz> A feir number of other devices
[23:04] <DaQatz> fair*
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> DaQatz: That would basically patent everything concievable that used a computer and interacted with the real world.
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> Without exception.
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These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.