#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-03-30

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:00] * PiBot sets mode +v smw_
[0:06] * evert (~evert@xvm-30-94.ghst.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[0:07] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:07] * PiBot sets mode +v scorphus
[0:08] * neouf (~neouf@charles.bijon.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:08] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D
[0:09] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:09] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[0:10] * dormant (~dormant@d54C1A06E.access.telenet.be) Quit (Quit: dormant)
[0:13] <ReggieUK> whats teh noise on the video?
[0:13] * evert_ (~evert@xvm-30-94.ghst.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] * PiBot sets mode +v evert_
[0:15] <piless> ReggieUK: fap fap fap
[0:15] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:15] * neouf (~neouf@charles.bijon.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] * PiBot sets mode +v neouf
[0:15] * MrWatson (~MrW@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] * PiBot sets mode +v MrWatson
[0:17] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Quit: O_o)
[0:17] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:17] * PiBot sets mode +v esotera
[0:22] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:22] * PiBot sets mode +v scorphus
[0:23] * LynxGirl (~lynx@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:26] * shellac (~pldms@cpc6-aztw25-2-0-cust83.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:27] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:27] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[0:29] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@c-24-11-54-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] * PiBot sets mode +v johnthebear
[0:31] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:39] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:39] <Matt> morning
[0:39] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:40] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[0:43] * koda (~vittorio@host129-223-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: I used to be chatting like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee)
[0:44] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[0:46] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) Quit ()
[0:48] <piless> evening
[0:50] * smw_ (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:50] * Naphatul (~Naphatul@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:50] * ping- (~jman@ping.ristet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:51] * ping- (~jman@ping.ristet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:51] * PiBot sets mode +v ping-
[0:55] * AdrianG (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * PiBot sets mode +v AdrianG
[0:58] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[0:59] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * PiBot sets mode +v hamitron
[1:00] * victhor (~victhor@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:00] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[1:01] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:02] <basso> yoyo
[1:07] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:08] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@173-54.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:12] <piless> yoyoyo
[1:19] <ukscone> evening all
[1:20] <piless> morning actually now
[1:22] <ukscone> well if you will live in a place where the time is screwy -- i am the prime meridian
[1:22] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-58-168-114-42.lns9.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:22] * PiBot sets mode +v nrdb
[1:23] * finnx (~sheppards@99-39-251-198.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:23] * PiBot sets mode +v finnx
[1:23] <piless> ukscone: BST too
[1:24] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[1:25] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:26] * nrdb is now known as nrdb_newbie
[1:26] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:26] <piless> newbie?
[1:28] * a5m0 (~Arc@unaffiliated/a5m0) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[1:28] * Arc_ (~Arc@cpe-173-175-206-85.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:28] * PiBot sets mode +v Arc_
[1:32] * Reggie__ (ReggieUK@5ac9ad35.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Reggie__
[1:32] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad35.bb.sky.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:33] * Reggie__ is now known as ReggieUK
[1:33] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[1:33] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Changing host)
[1:33] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[1:36] <shirro> u-boot is evil
[1:39] <shirro> What would be a good collective noun for Rasperry Pi users?
[1:39] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
[1:42] * MrW (~MrW@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:42] * PiBot sets mode +v MrW
[1:43] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:43] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[1:43] <weasel> Rasperry-Pi-Users.
[1:43] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[1:43] * MrW (~MrW@ Quit (Client Quit)
[1:44] <piless> shirro: saps
[1:44] <shirro> thats better
[1:45] <piless> raspies is kinda repulsive
[1:45] <shirro> piless: your name qualifies as well
[1:46] <piless> it doesn't work plurally though.. "look at that group of fucking piless over there"
[1:46] <DooMMasteR> the Piies :P
[1:46] <shirro> DooMMasteR: bad association with football teams. c'mon the might pies etc. no not good.
[1:47] <piless> "liz's stalkers"?
[1:47] <DooMMasteR> shirro: narf
[1:47] <DooMMasteR> Raspees :P
[1:48] <DooMMasteR> oder Raspiis
[1:48] <DooMMasteR> or
[1:48] <Da|Mummy> the Pee'rs
[1:49] * zleap (~psutton@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[1:49] <piless> cunts
[1:50] <shirro> piless: isn't that offensive outside of Australia?
[1:51] <piless> Probably offensive in australia too..
[1:51] <shirro> The Rapees
[1:51] <piless> the rapists
[1:51] <IT_Sean> Ahem
[1:52] * piless hands IT_Sean some cough sweets
[1:54] <piless> that ought to help with that bad throat of yours
[1:54] <IT_Sean> Indeed. ...
[1:55] * nullvo1d (milkman@adsl-108-207-32-193.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:55] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:55] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[2:01] * nrltd (foobar@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[2:01] * nrltd (foobar@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:01] * PiBot sets mode +v nrltd
[2:06] * Arc_ is now known as a5m0
[2:07] * a5m0 (~Arc@cpe-173-175-206-85.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Changing host)
[2:07] * a5m0 (~Arc@unaffiliated/a5m0) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:07] * PiBot sets mode +v a5m0
[2:08] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:08] * PiBot sets mode +v Flea86
[2:09] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:09] * PiBot sets mode +v chandoo
[2:18] * _jab_ (~AndChat@dslb-088-066-126-021.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:18] * PiBot sets mode +v _jab_
[2:18] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:18] * PiBot sets mode +v passstab
[2:19] * _jab_ (~AndChat@dslb-088-066-126-021.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:20] <Xark> shirro: Hi, I wanted to mention (per your forum query) that I have been playing with Adruino while I wait for RPi. Having fun with TVOut lib. I re-wrote it to support tilemap graphics and smooth scrolling (and have it acting much more like an efficient "video game" library - working on pseudo-sprite support now). :)
[2:20] <Xark> er, Arduino (never going to get used to that word...)
[2:21] <shirro> wow. didn't realise arduino could do that
[2:21] <ReggieUK> congrats Xark :)
[2:21] <Flea86> Xark: Ahem, video demo link? ;-)
[2:22] <Xark> shirro: I believe pretty much everything that Atari 2600 can do, TVOut can do (in black and white). :)
[2:22] <shirro> ofcourse i had a z80 that generated video so i shouldn't be surprised
[2:23] <Xark> Flea86: Not yet, I am still polishing the lib. I did post a still shot with 24x24 8x8 character graphics (I'll see if I can find the link...).
[2:23] <Xark> shirro: I am pretty sure I can mix a few sample channels too (for glorious multi-voice 1-bit PWM audio). :)
[2:24] <shirro> Nah, do it like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgYhVnmeWrk
[2:24] <Flea86> Xark: Ok - looking forward to it :)
[2:25] <Xark> Flea86: Very soon. It is "perfect" with 4 cycles per pixel (~176x200 NTSC pixel res - like a Vic-20). I can do 3 cycles per pixel with a slight "stretched" last pixel, or "uneven" 40 columns (that is fine for text).
[2:26] <Flea86> Xark: heh nice!!
[2:26] <Flea86> }:A
[2:26] * Xark notes darn ROM access takes 3 cycles to read a byte...
[2:27] <Flea86> Yeah, rom reads can be slow..
[2:28] <Flea86> And not just on the AVR..
[2:28] * piless (5ec51001@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[2:28] <acfrazier> looks like you broke emelent14
[2:29] <acfrazier> element14*
[2:30] <Xark> shirro: Haha, I remember playing games with the AM radio audio on a TRS-80 (constant background noise wasn't so fun). :) That Altair sounded pretty darn good by comparison.
[2:31] <Flea86> Xark: lol, yeah istr that the interference was so bad on that machine that you could broadcast 'music' to a nearby radio simply by setting up specific timing loops on some of them old machines..
[2:32] <Xark> Here is a link with some audio similar to what I hope to be able to generate (while I do video - this fellow has two AVRs). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cFXxY7K6wo I think I can do better (and I have a 15Khz interrupt "waiting"...
[2:32] <shirro> Xark: I think I finally found a reason to get into Arduino. Thanks. I wonder if the pong game by dad made from a kit is still around anywhere. Would be cool to strip it and put an arduino inside. The 4yo loves the ipad but most console games are beyond him. I reckon playing pong with him would be cool.
[2:33] <Xark> Flea86: Yep, been there done that. I remember having to turn off my Apple ][ (original model) when the family had an important TV show they wanted to watch. :)
[2:33] <Flea86> Xark: lol yeah
[2:34] <Xark> shirro: There is already a nice Pong, Space Invaders and Asteroids (all really well done, IMO). See http://nootropicdesign.com/hackvision/games.html
[2:34] <Xark> shirro: All open source too. :)
[2:34] <Flea86> Xark: Also, ascii-art ftw! }:A
[2:34] * Xark notes they could be so much better with his video library.... :)
[2:34] <Xark> Flea86: Yes, he converts polygons to text on the fly. :)
[2:36] <Xark> shirro: I cannibalized a TV pong kit I had to get resistors and connectors for the TVOut (bog simple to build, two resistors and a cable - and another resistor and capacitor for audio).
[2:37] <shirro> I want the clunky old paddles he made. Pots with big knobs in vero boxes.
[2:38] <Xark> shirro: Nice. I ordered the "Altoids Tin" paddle kit for my arduino (but I have an old-school Atari stick hooked up).
[2:40] <Xark> If I can scrape up the time, I want to release a little game/tech demo "Caverns of AVRs" (a spoof of "Caverns of Mars" a of kind of a vertical "Scramble" type game, as seen on Atari 8-bit and VCS). :)
[2:45] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[2:47] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Happy Now?)
[2:55] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-58-168-230-117.lns6.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:55] * PiBot sets mode +v setkeh
[3:05] * |uen| (~uen@p5DCB30D6.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:05] * PiBot sets mode +v |uen|
[3:09] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB3690.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[3:15] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:15] * PiBot sets mode +v Compy
[3:16] * Syliss (~Syliss@ Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[3:18] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc1-hart9-2-0-cust121.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:19] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc1-hart9-2-0-cust121.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:19] * PiBot sets mode +v KaiNeR
[3:22] * stereohead-away (~stereohea@fiber-087-195-245-144.solcon.nl) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[3:22] * stereohez (~stereohea@fiber-087-195-245-144.solcon.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:22] * PiBot sets mode +v stereohez
[3:27] <chandoo> why is CE mark so important to ship boards to customers
[3:28] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:29] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad35.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[3:33] * piless (5ec51001@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[3:33] * PiBot sets mode +v piless
[3:41] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[3:48] * wej (~j@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:49] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:49] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
[3:49] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p2-117.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:49] * PiBot sets mode +v jardiamj
[3:52] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:52] * PiBot sets mode +v mkopack
[3:53] * wej (~j@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:53] * PiBot sets mode +v wej
[3:56] <piless> mkopack: you seen this? http://www.element14.com/community/people/PeteL/blog/2012/03/29/spikes-in-the-ether-emc-and-compliance
[3:56] * cypher708 (cypher707@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:56] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher708
[3:56] <mkopack> YEah
[3:56] <mkopack> saw
[3:58] * cypher707 (cypher707@89-181-192-216.net.novis.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[3:58] * smw (~smw@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:58] * PiBot sets mode +v smw
[3:58] * smw (~smw@ Quit (Changing host)
[3:58] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:58] * PiBot sets mode +v smw
[4:01] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:07] * piless (5ec51001@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[4:09] * deafanon (u5739@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rgutrskaxsreecwt) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[4:11] * jardi_ (~jardiamj@rdbk.p3-146.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:11] * PiBot sets mode +v jardi_
[4:13] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p2-117.molalla.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[4:14] * deafanon (u5739@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zhjfhmhgeyccuelt) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:14] * PiBot sets mode +v deafanon
[4:14] * jardi_ is now known as jardiamj
[4:16] <ShiftPlusOne> alrighty then.... how do you unban people? >.>
[4:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o ShiftPlusOne
[4:16] <mkopack> YGIAGAM
[4:17] <mkopack> BTFOOM
[4:19] * ShiftPlusOne sets mode -b *!*hate@unaffiliated/devicezer0
[4:19] <ShiftPlusOne> Why was LiENUS banned? O_o
[4:19] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
[4:22] <mkopack> Wasn't me!
[4:26] * DeviceZer0 (~hate@unaffiliated/devicezer0) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:26] * PiBot sets mode +v DeviceZer0
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[4:26] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D
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[4:35] * RITRedbeard (Yoss@t410.student.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:35] * PiBot sets mode +v RITRedbeard
[4:42] * Compy (Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ()
[4:48] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:48] * PiBot sets mode +v mchou
[4:48] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-58-168-230-117.lns6.win.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[4:50] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:52] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:53] * DataSpree (~DataSpree@ip72-204-12-32.fv.ks.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:53] * PiBot sets mode +v DataSpree
[4:54] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:00] * victhor (~victhor@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[5:02] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
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[5:07] * PiBot sets mode +v Laogeodritt
[5:12] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[5:15] <Ben64> ShiftPlusOne: Feb 29 2012 12:52:30 <ukscone> due to fud and trolling
[5:18] <ShiftPlusOne> Heh... if we banned people for every case of fud and trolling we'd only have IT_Sean left.
[5:19] * ChanServ sets mode -o ShiftPlusOne
[5:25] <Ben64> from the logs he wasn't even doing anything wrong
[5:25] <ukscone> Ben64: he was basically being an arsehole
[5:26] <Ben64> meh, i'm not seeing any arseness
[5:26] <ukscone> and he is the only one banned and even then it was only a name ban not ip or anything hard to get around
[5:27] <ukscone> Ben64: it has been a month so i forget exactly why but he was spreading fud and trolling and was complained about for several days
[5:28] <Ben64> you don't have to justify it to me, i'm just saying it doesn't seem bad
[5:30] <ukscone> Ben64: he was pm'ing ops & <LiENUS> WOULD ALL OF YOU ASSFUCKS
[5:30] <Ben64> Feb 28 2012 22:15:43 <LiENUS> QUIT TRYING TO LOAD THE SITES
[5:30] <Ben64> Feb 28 2012 22:15:44 <LiENUS> SO I CAN BUY ONE
[5:31] <Ben64> everyone was crazy on release day
[5:31] <ukscone> Ben64: doesn't excuse bad language
[5:31] <ukscone> of any kind
[5:31] <ukscone> we are pretty lax in here normally
[5:32] <ukscone> but he was taking it too far and pm'ing ops
[5:32] <ukscone> and as i said he was given a lax ban, only his nick not his ip
[5:32] <ukscone> and he came back under a different name
[5:32] * EiN_ is now known as EiNSTeiN_
[5:32] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@237-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net) Quit (Changing host)
[5:32] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:32] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[5:32] <Ben64> we average about 1 f**k per day in here
[5:33] <Ben64> oh wait, did math wrong... 3 per day
[5:33] <ukscone> Ben64: i'm sure we do but they don't pm ops swearing and yelling
[5:33] <Ben64> yeah i don't have stats for that
[5:33] <ukscone> Ben64: and as i said he is the onmly one we have ever had to ban
[5:34] <ukscone> and even then it was done partly humourously and he was ablee to come back if eh wanted
[5:36] * a5m0 (~Arc@unaffiliated/a5m0) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[5:36] * Arc_ (~Arc@cpe-173-175-206-85.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Arc_
[5:37] * Arc_ is now known as a5m0
[5:38] * a5m0 (~Arc@cpe-173-175-206-85.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Changing host)
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[5:38] * PiBot sets mode +v a5m0
[5:39] * piney0 (~piney@pool-141-153-170-212.mad.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:39] * PiBot sets mode +v piney0
[5:40] * genbattle (~quassel@118-93-47-103.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:40] * PiBot sets mode +v genbattle
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[5:45] * mpthompson_ (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[5:45] * PiBot sets mode +v mpthompson_
[5:48] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: Station breakdown)
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[5:52] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesq
[5:56] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4db9c88a.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:56] * PiBot sets mode +v oberling
[5:57] * setkeh (~setkeh@ Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[5:59] * oberling_ (~oberling@brln-4d0c007d.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[5:59] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:59] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[6:03] * mpthompson_ (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[6:03] * mpthompson (32832751@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[6:14] * genbattle (~quassel@118-93-47-103.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:14] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: oldtopman has left the house)
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[6:15] * PiBot sets mode +v jthunder
[6:15] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[6:16] * Da|Mummy (~veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
[6:17] * jthunder_ (~jthunder@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:18] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[6:21] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:21] * PiBot sets mode +v ukscone
[6:31] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
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[6:31] * PiBot sets mode +v setkeh
[6:49] * joukio (~joukio@82-171-18-219.ip.telfort.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[7:00] * dungeonduke (~dukie@djkie.static.corbina.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:00] * PiBot sets mode +v dungeonduke
[7:07] * klm[_] (milkman@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:07] * klm[_] (milkman@ Quit (Changing host)
[7:07] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:07] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[7:07] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[7:10] <dungeonduke> hi there.
[7:10] <dungeonduke> does anybody got one?
[7:13] <Da|Mummy> ETA is october, come back then
[7:14] <Ben64> october 2014
[7:14] <weuxel> I did not. That is to say RS did not contact me as stated in the mail, so i guess, i am not i the first batch
[7:14] <weuxel> *in
[7:14] <ShiftPlusOne> I wonder how people find this channel without knowing that the board isn't out yet O_o
[7:14] <Da|Mummy> dont call it the first batch, the first batch is 10k, the first run of the first batch is 2k it seems
[7:15] <Ben64> they better ship those 2k out to people within 30 days from now
[7:16] <ShiftPlusOne> or else some people will bitch some more D=
[7:16] <Ben64> its seeming like vaporware
[7:16] <Da|Mummy> what are people gonna do instead, buy an iphone to replace it?
[7:16] <Ben64> february 29th, 2012: rpi release
[7:16] <weuxel> release was a month ago an noone has seen more than photos
[7:16] <Da|Mummy> no, its seeming miraculous that they got this far
[7:16] <Ben64> yet they didn't exist
[7:17] <blemmm> you guys are hilariously pessimistic.
[7:17] <Ben64> whatever happened to not counting your chickens before they hatch
[7:17] <Da|Mummy> its rather funny watching people go through this the first time, and callin vaporware after a mere 1 month
[7:17] <Ben64> instead of saying "we got 10k to release now" a month ago, they should have said "we're working on it, here, you can preorder now"
[7:18] <ShiftPlusOne> Considering how crazy and upset people get about the delays, I wonder why, given that it means that much to them, they don't just buy a pandaboard ES or another dev board. Surely if you're that upset, you can pay the $200 for a board that's already out.
[7:18] <Da|Mummy> people are bitches
[7:18] <cjbaird> Hardly a unique occurance for an 'open' community project. (Anyone else with an OpenMoko? :)
[7:18] <Ben64> i don't see why you're so happy about the delays
[7:18] <Ben64> why even give a date if you can't make it by then
[7:18] <Da|Mummy> anyone else with an OpenPandora?
[7:19] <Ben64> they could have said launch in May and it wouldn't be a disappointment
[7:19] <cjbaird> Da|Mummy: You Win.
[7:19] <Da|Mummy> im not happy, but you must be insane if you thought they would actually ship feb 29th
[7:19] <cjbaird> I had a P112 CP/M kit take a year to arrive...
[7:20] <Ben64> they sold the 29th as the "you can buy it now and get one"
[7:20] <Ben64> which is why rs/farnell were crashing for so long
[7:20] <ShiftPlusOne> citation needed
[7:20] <cjbaird> And actually, in the early early days of computers (Commodore PET..) these issues RPi have had pale in comparison..
[7:20] <ShiftPlusOne> The frontpage said "preorder"
[7:21] <ShiftPlusOne> Nobody is 'happy'... it is what it is.
[7:21] <Ben64> and they apparently didn't mention to farnell what to sell them for
[7:21] <Da|Mummy> it was expected by anyone whos been with these projects before
[7:21] <Da|Mummy> if this is your first time away from an iphone, congrats, and welcome to the green side of the fence
[7:21] <cjbaird> Gen Y just doesn't know what it's like to be a True Pioneer... :P :)
[7:22] <cjbaird> "waaaa I wants one-click single satisfaction!" :
[7:22] <cjbaird> s/single/instant/
[7:22] <Da|Mummy> make that a touchscreen click too
[7:22] <blemmm> Pfft, stereotypes.
[7:22] <blemmm> >_>
[7:23] <Da|Mummy> brb, gotta boot into windows
[7:23] * Da|Mummy (~veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[7:24] <weuxel> Iiik "boot into windows"...
[7:25] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:25] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
[7:25] <blemmm> About 1:30, not too bad for windows
[7:25] <Da|Mummy> :}
[7:25] <Da|Mummy> SSD
[7:26] <Da|Mummy> plus debian mint shutdown is 3sec
[7:27] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:27] <ShiftPlusOne> who times shutdowns? =/
[7:28] <Da|Mummy> ok, "like" 3 seconds
[7:29] <ShiftPlusOne> speed it up with Alt+Prt Scr+(S,U,B) >.>
[7:29] <Da|Mummy> by the time i type that up, it would already have shut down
[7:30] <ShiftPlusOne> <.<
[7:32] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:33] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:33] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
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[7:36] * hjubal (~hjubal@ Quit (Changing host)
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[7:36] * PiBot sets mode +v hjubal
[7:36] * PiBot sets mode +v hjubal
[7:36] * ball (~ball@c-24-14-239-108.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:36] * PiBot sets mode +v ball
[7:41] <dungeonduke> Someone should go to Shenzhen
[7:41] <_av500_> and do what?
[7:42] <dungeonduke> and help them with certification
[7:43] <dungeonduke> i don't understand why they want to bring them to UK
[7:44] <dungeonduke> Everything can be done in China
[7:45] * ball wants to ride on the Shanghai maglev
[7:46] <ShiftPlusOne> It's like riding a train.
[7:46] <ball> It's been years since I rode a train.
[7:47] <ball> Perhaps ten years.
[7:48] * setkeh (~setkeh@ Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
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[7:48] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher707
[7:48] * Burninate_afk is now known as Burninate
[7:49] <ShiftPlusOne> fair enough
[7:49] * cypher708 (cypher707@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:49] <dungeonduke> trishaw is much better
[7:50] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[7:50] * ball thinks about monorails
[7:52] <ShiftPlusOne> We had to go to an airport in China and were running late. This happened to be close to the time that taxis change drivers, so they just drive around without picking up passangers. We ended up taking a trishaw thinking it would be faster anyway, given the traffic. Stupid of us, 'cause they went slower than walking speed >_<
[7:52] * rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:53] * rikai (~rikai@cpe-72-224-109-140.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:53] * rikai (~rikai@cpe-72-224-109-140.maine.res.rr.com) Quit (Changing host)
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[7:53] * PiBot sets mode +v rikai
[7:53] * PiBot sets mode +v rikai
[7:54] * TheNoodle (~noodle@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:56] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[7:57] * PiBot sets mode +v TheNoodle
[7:58] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-36-214.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:58] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
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[8:05] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[8:06] * danieldaniel (~danieldan@unaffiliated/danieldaniel) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
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[8:07] * PiBot sets mode +v danieldaniel
[8:07] * danieldaniel is now known as Guest83380
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[8:10] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[8:11] * Syliss (~Syliss@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[8:13] * Slippern (SlippernFr@server02.hjemmeserver.info) Quit (Quit: hjemmeserver.info rules!)
[8:14] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[8:16] * pitillo (~pitillo@197.Red-79-158-165.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[8:18] * PiBot sets mode +v ShiftPlusOne
[8:19] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
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[8:20] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p3-146.molalla.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[8:21] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[8:23] * pitillo (~pitillo@210.Red-79-151-240.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:24] * ball (~ball@c-24-14-239-108.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[8:24] * |uen| (~uen@p5DCB30D6.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * magn3ts (u214@pdpc/supporter/professional/magn3ts) Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * sharktamer (u4721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqruyqsrtszvzucz) Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * friggle (~friggle@li60-24.members.linode.com) Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * Hexxeh (u1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-giuztyijeiresosg) Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * maahes (~maahes@cpe-98-148-196-131.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * decadance (~decadance@ Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * hotwings (hd@secksy.net) Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * poptire (~quassel@ Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:24] * Byan (byan@gateway/shell/mtu-lug/x-tcvlrfgasmcrcoil) Quit (*.net *.split)
[8:25] * davros (~davros@71-87-211-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[8:25] * winocm (~textual@opensn0w/developer/winocm) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[8:26] * davros (~davros@71-87-211-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:26] * PiBot sets mode +v davros
[8:26] * nullvo1d (milkman@adsl-108-207-32-193.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:26] * PiBot sets mode +v nullvo1d
[8:27] * winocm (~textual@ has joined #raspberrypi
[8:27] * winocm (~textual@ Quit (Changing host)
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[8:27] * PiBot sets mode +v winocm
[8:27] * PiBot sets mode +v winocm
[8:27] * pitillo (~pitillo@72.Red-81-39-15.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:27] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[8:28] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[8:32] * pitillo (~pitillo@72.Red-81-39-15.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[8:33] * pitillo (~pitillo@169.Red-79-158-164.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:33] * PiBot sets mode +v pitillo
[8:42] * Guest83380 (~danieldan@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[8:43] * PiBot sets mode +v danieldaniel_
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[8:45] * PiBot sets mode +v mjorgensen
[8:46] * rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:47] * rikai (~rikai@cpe-72-224-109-140.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:47] * PiBot sets mode +v rikai
[8:47] * rikai (~rikai@cpe-72-224-109-140.maine.res.rr.com) Quit (Changing host)
[8:47] * rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:47] * PiBot sets mode +v rikai
[8:48] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[8:55] * kalem (~kalem@host185-195-static.104-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:55] * kalem (~kalem@host185-195-static.104-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Changing host)
[8:55] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:55] * PiBot sets mode +v kalem
[8:55] * PiBot sets mode +v kalem
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[8:57] * PiBot sets mode +v stuk_gen
[8:58] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:58] * PiBot sets mode +v TheOpenSourcerer
[9:01] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:01] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz_
[9:01] * gabriel9|work (~quassel@adsl-165-172-139.teol.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:01] * PiBot sets mode +v gabriel9|work
[9:05] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[9:08] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[9:11] <RITRedbeard> hello
[9:11] <RITRedbeard> the usual crowd awake?
[9:12] * ru55377 (~rthicking@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:12] * PiBot sets mode +v ru55377
[9:14] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:14] * PiBot sets mode +v farmboy
[9:18] * khildin (~khildin@ip-83-134-230-253.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:18] * PiBot sets mode +v khildin
[9:19] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:19] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey
[9:20] <RITRedbeard> mdavey
[9:20] <RITRedbeard> My pistol is loaded - I shot Betty Crocker
[9:21] <RITRedbeard> Deliver Colonel Sanders down to Davey Jones' locker
[9:21] <RITRedbeard> Rhymin' and stealin' in a drunken state
[9:21] <RITRedbeard> And I'll be rockin' my rhymes all the way to Hell's gate
[9:22] <mdavey> 'twas Davy Jones
[9:22] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:23] <ShiftPlusOne> O_o
[9:23] * androidlackey (~rg@unaffiliated/androidlackey) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:23] * PiBot sets mode +v androidlackey
[9:23] * |uen| (~uen@p5DCB30D6.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:23] * PiBot sets mode +v |uen|
[9:23] <ShiftPlusOne> mdavey, a few people have been asking about the power regulators they ended up using in the end. Did they stick with linear?
[9:24] <RITRedbeard> Hey, could you guys do me a small favor?
[9:24] <SpeedEvil> yes
[9:24] <SpeedEvil> No
[9:24] * smjms (~janne@178-55-168-183.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:24] * smjms (~janne@178-55-168-183.bb.dnainternet.fi) Quit (Changing host)
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[9:24] * PiBot sets mode +v smjms
[9:24] * PiBot sets mode +v smjms
[9:24] <RITRedbeard> No?
[9:24] <RITRedbeard> It's pretty basic.
[9:24] <SpeedEvil> RITRedbeard: Well - it kinda depends.
[9:25] * |uen| is now known as uen
[9:25] <RITRedbeard> My friend is an indie developer - one man project, making MoO / Space Empire sucessor in glory
[9:25] <RITRedbeard> spent a fair bit of cash on artwork so far, so I've offered to make music for his game
[9:25] <RITRedbeard> problem is, he is dead
[9:25] <RITRedbeard> erm
[9:25] <RITRedbeard> deaf
[9:25] <RITRedbeard> so he can't judge the music himself
[9:25] <SpeedEvil> hah
[9:26] <RITRedbeard> http://beyondbeyaan.blogspot.com/2012/03/background-music.html#comment-form
[9:26] <SpeedEvil> Alas, my speakers are broken
[9:26] <RITRedbeard> there is the blogspot for his game, it's going to be featured on Desutra
[9:26] <RITRedbeard> and in the blog post is a link to soundcloud with some music I dabbled with
[9:28] * GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[9:28] * GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:28] * PiBot sets mode +v GeorgeH
[9:29] * Davespice_ (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Davespice_
[9:30] <mdavey> ShiftPlusOne: http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/psu.png
[9:31] <ShiftPlusOne> oh, perfect thanks
[9:31] <ShiftPlusOne> RITRedbeard, reminds me of a space odyssey.
[9:32] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[9:32] <mdavey> There was a design change between the alpha boards and the production boards where the fancy, efficient 7-16v input circuitry was replaced bu a much simpler and cheaper but less efficient design.
[9:32] <mdavey> They simply couldn't get some of the parts needed for the previous design cheap enough to make the price points.
[9:33] <ShiftPlusOne> mdavey, are the gpio power rails taken straight from the PSU?
[9:33] <mdavey> There are a couple of threads about it, including contributions from Gert where he provides some detail. Unfortunately they aren't linked from the wiki at the moment.
[9:34] <mdavey> and one of the power rails is generated directly from the SoC
[9:34] <RITRedbeard> mdavey, you work on hardware for rpi?
[9:35] * AdrianG (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:35] <ShiftPlusOne> mdavey, alright, thanks for the help.
[9:35] <mdavey> the 3v3 power rail is derived from the output of a regulator that is working close to maximum load.
[9:35] <mdavey> RITRedbeard: no
[9:36] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:36] * PiBot sets mode +v cosh
[9:36] <mdavey> http://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware#Power
[9:36] <mdavey> http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
[9:37] <RITRedbeard> wish there was an easy way to drive LVDS
[9:38] <mdavey> ShiftPlusOne: so maximum permitted current draw from 3v3 rail for accessories is 50mA. On the Gertboard, Gert was talking about adding another 5v to 3v3 regulator so Gertboard accessories can draw more then 50mA. For GPIOs you still need to drive via a transistor.
[9:39] <mdavey> RITRedbeard: can that not be done from DSI?
[9:39] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:39] * PiBot sets mode +v mchou
[9:39] <RITRedbeard> not sure
[9:39] <ShiftPlusOne> and the current from the 5v rail would only be limited by the external power supply then?
[9:39] <RITRedbeard> can it?
[9:39] <mdavey> You can get HDMI to LVDS converters but they are not cheap.
[9:40] <ShiftPlusOne> IIRC there were 2 or 3 people working on an HDMI>LVDS converter on here... what happened to that?
[9:41] <mdavey> RITRedbeard: I dunno. But I though there was someone that was working on getting a PSP or iPhone display interfaced to an alpha board.
[9:42] <RITRedbeard> http://www.toshiba.com/taec/components/ProdBrief/10E03_TC358764_5_ProdBrief.pdf
[9:42] <ShiftPlusOne> ah yeah, they were using that chip and going from DSI
[9:43] <RITRedbeard> link?
[9:43] <RITRedbeard> I suck at electronics
[9:43] <ShiftPlusOne> No link, it was just a discussion on here... they had a schematic ready and I think there was talk of testing it, but that was ages ago.
[9:44] <RaTTuS|BIG> !w
[9:44] <PiBot> RaTTuS|BIG: in Runcorn, Halton. Temp 9??C. Condition: Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 82%, Later 11??C - 7??C. Condition: Partly Sunny.
[9:44] * heymaster (~heymaster@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:44] <mdavey> ShiftPlusOne: Within reason, yes. The tracks are only so wide so if you try to draw serious current, you are going to cause the magic blue smoke to escape. But for general rule, it is input milliamps minus 500mA for model A or minus 700mA for model B. So at 1.2A input, you can pull up to 500mA from the 5v0 pin or USB socket on model B for instance.
[9:44] <RITRedbeard> P-TFBGA package
[9:45] * heymaster (~heymaster@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:45] * PiBot sets mode +v heymaster
[9:45] <mchou> !w
[9:45] <ShiftPlusOne> mdavey, thanks again.
[9:45] <mdavey> np
[9:46] <ShiftPlusOne> RITRedbeard, http://www.chalk-elec.com/?page_id=1284
[9:50] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[9:52] <RITRedbeard> ShiftPlusOne, does it work for Beaglebone/Raspberry Pi?
[9:53] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:53] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
[9:53] <ShiftPlusOne> I found it on the forum, the guy said they're designed for raspberry pi.
[9:53] <ShiftPlusOne> and all the sources are there, so it might be worth investigating
[9:55] <ShiftPlusOne> check their front page
[9:55] * Mookman288 (~Mookman28@c-68-41-44-138.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[9:56] <RITRedbeard> are the DSI connectors on the Pi readily accessable?
[9:58] <ShiftPlusOne> the boards I've seen have flex connectors, I don't know if that has changed on the final boards though
[9:58] * magn3ts (u214@pdpc/supporter/professional/magn3ts) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:58] * PiBot sets mode +v magn3ts
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[9:58] * PiBot sets mode +v friggle
[9:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Hexxeh
[9:58] * PiBot sets mode +v maahes
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[9:58] <RITRedbeard> S2: DSI interface. 15-pin surface mounted flat flex connector
[9:58] <ShiftPlusOne> there you go
[9:58] * mjorgensen (quassel@nat/nokia/session) Quit (Changing host)
[9:58] * mjorgensen (quassel@nat/nokia/x-ohfmjtwozfyrusog) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:58] * PiBot sets mode +v mjorgensen
[9:59] <RITRedbeard> that's just eLinux
[9:59] <RITRedbeard> probably not soldered properly
[9:59] <RITRedbeard> and they all have to go back to china at the factory
[9:59] <RITRedbeard> to be replaced
[9:59] * RITRedbeard rolls eyes
[9:59] <RITRedbeard> maybe ukscone can answer?
[9:59] <RITRedbeard> the board the museum has is similar to release correct?
[10:00] <RITRedbeard> http://elinux.org/images/9/96/RpiFront.jpg
[10:00] <RITRedbeard> left hand side
[10:03] * interglacial (~user@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[10:29] * dungeonduke (~dukie@djkie.static.corbina.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:29] <ahven> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5v-20a-iron-case-power-supply-silver-ac-110-220v-124499
[10:29] <ahven> power supply for a Pi? :P
[10:30] <ahven> 17.3 amps left for all your other devices :)
[10:30] * dungeonduke (~dukie@djkie.static.corbina.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:30] * PiBot sets mode +v dungeonduke
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[10:34] * Faperdaper (~Faperdape@dhcp-077-250-027-109.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[10:34] <dungeonduke> i can't understand why most of the boards (r pi, beaglebone etc.) use ethernet controller on pcb, i thought it should be part of standard peripherals
[10:35] * Syliss (~Syliss@ Quit (Quit: Syliss)
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[10:46] * RITRedbeard (Yoss@t410.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[10:55] * Davespice_ is now known as Davespice
[10:56] <ironzorg> "and we apologise for the frustration and disappointmentthis is causing."
[10:56] * ironzorg grabs his sniper rifle
[10:56] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has left #raspberrypi
[11:01] <deafanon> just got a "Raspberry Pi - Compliance Update" email from Farnell UK :-(
[11:01] <deafanon> %^%%"$^??$%&*&$^
[11:01] * ironzorg hands his rifle to deafanon
[11:01] <ironzorg> my frustration level has never been so high
[11:02] <weuxel> At least you get mails from farnell...
[11:02] * neciO (~juan@d51A44B85.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[11:03] <ironzorg> got it a few minutes ago, give them some time
[11:04] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc1-hart9-2-0-cust121.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
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[11:04] * PiBot sets mode +v KaiNeR
[11:04] <Davespice> I have just recieved a complicance update email from Farnell/Element14
[11:04] * ^[o_o]^ (~quassel@unaffiliated/metecetin/x-2935723) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:04] <Davespice> deafanon: you got it too?
[11:05] <weuxel> Are you both from UK?
[11:05] <Davespice> yes
[11:05] <Davespice> well, I am anyway
[11:05] * RITRedbeard__ (RITReadbea@t410mobile.student.rit.edu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:06] <weuxel> What do they tell you in that mail?
[11:06] <ironzorg> In recent days you may have heard various reports on the Webabout Raspberry Pi, the need for compliance testing and possible furtherdelivery delays.
[11:06] <Davespice> the way I see it, if we didn't have so many people who are desperate to get their hands on a Pi just to use it for XBMC or whatever, we probably wouldn't be in this mess with compliance - I blame all the whingers!! <shrug> :0
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[11:06] * PiBot sets mode +v mdavey_
[11:07] <deafanon> Davespice, got it at 9.50am
[11:07] <deafanon> and yes, I'm a Brit
[11:07] <Davespice> yeah same, there abouts - there is a quote from upton at the end saying:
[11:07] <Davespice> ???We have spoken with BIS this morning, and have been told that, given the volumes involved and the demographic mix of likely users, the development board exemption is not applicable to us; as a result, even the first uncased developer units of Raspberry Pi will require a CE mark prior to distribution in the EU...... ....we are working with RS Components and element14/Premier Farnell to bring Raspberry Pi into a
[11:07] <Davespice> compliant state as soon as is humanly possible.???
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[11:08] * PiBot sets mode +v M0GHY
[11:08] <deafanon> the second sentence here is an understatement and then some: "We will email you individually to confirm your personal delivery date as soon as we are able to. We will continue to share generic information, but recognise that it is the detailed specific information to your order that is most important to you."
[11:08] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:09] * mdavey_ is now known as mdavey
[11:09] <Davespice> haha
[11:09] <Davespice> come on... why are people so worried about it? It's not like its for your kids Christmas present
[11:10] <des2> Good cause it might not make Christmas
[11:10] <Davespice> crikey, lol
[11:10] <Davespice> itd because of all the moaners and complainers that this mess has happened, imho
[11:10] * Davespice folds his arms
[11:12] <deafanon> there are 2,000 rPi's sitting in a warehouse somewhere in the UK
[11:12] <deafanon> so who is going to organise a smash'n'grab raid?
[11:12] <Davespice> haha :)
[11:12] <Davespice> I would imagine those have been divided up among the testing houses
[11:13] <Davespice> I think they need to do a random sample of testing
[11:13] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:13] * PiBot sets mode +v TheOpenSourcerer
[11:13] <Davespice> I'm not exactly sure how they do it to be honest
[11:13] * weuxel books a flight to Britain.
[11:15] <deafanon> I did read something yesterday about delivery dates possibly being in August but my brain just refused to accept it so I can't really remember any further details from that article
[11:16] <Davespice> deafanon: that has be rebutted, it was an automatic mailshot apparently, and can be ignored
[11:16] <Davespice> the was an post about it on the Raspberry Pi foundation blog a day or two ago
[11:19] <deafanon> I want to build one of these & use it to target hot air balloons which have various rPi estimated delivery dates hanging from them
[11:19] <deafanon> http://www.thesentryproject.com/StarterKit.htm
[11:25] <RaTTuS|BIG> less than 2K
[11:26] * mdavey (~chatzilla@visitor-net.aminocom.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[11:30] <tntexplosivesltd> aditsu: touche
[11:31] <tntexplosivesltd> aditsu: you did a good job
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[11:37] * DooMMasteR (~DooMMaste@unaffiliated/doommaster) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[11:41] <dungeonduke> i've got e-mail form Farnell too
[11:41] <dungeonduke> i'm not from UK
[11:41] <Davespice> did you order through their export site dungeonduke?
[11:42] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc1-hart9-2-0-cust121.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:42] <dungeonduke> yes i did, export.farnell.com
[11:42] <Davespice> same
[11:42] <Davespice> but I am from the UK :)
[11:42] * techman2 (6e8e8036@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit ()
[11:42] <Davespice> I only did it through the export site because of the DDOS attack that was going on
[11:42] <dungeonduke> well, seems like another "not yet ready" mail
[11:43] <dungeonduke> what is you order time?
[11:43] <dungeonduke> *your
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[11:45] * stereohez (~stereohea@fiber-087-195-245-144.solcon.nl) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[11:46] <deafanon> I ordered from the main Farnell UK site, not export.farnell.com
[11:46] * smjms (~janne@pdpc/supporter/student/kosiini) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:49] <dungeonduke> do we have any person here who has ordered pi in first minutes ?
[11:49] * winocm (~textual@opensn0w/developer/winocm) Quit (Quit: [Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/])
[11:49] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-203-51-89-83.lns11.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:50] <Hourd> o/
[11:51] <Davespice> me? I ordered at about 8 am on the 29th
[11:51] <Davespice> of Feb
[11:51] <Davespice> so about two hours after the launch, so I'm probably not the best person to speak to
[11:52] <dungeonduke> Farnell said that they will firstly deliver RPI to countries which don't have strong requirements to standards
[11:52] <Davespice> but my original estimated delivery date was the 12th of March :)
[11:52] <dungeonduke> sounds prety strange
[11:55] <Hourd> i ordered within 20 mins of 6am
[11:55] <Hourd> Davespice: mine was too
[11:55] <Davespice> Hourd: the delivery estimate?
[11:56] * matthiasb (~matthias@80-123-44-77.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[11:57] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher708
[11:58] <dungeonduke> mine was 7 am
[11:58] <dungeonduke> it was impossible to me to order faster
[11:59] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:59] * PiBot sets mode +v phantoxe
[11:59] * cypher707 (cypher707@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[12:00] <Hourd> Davespice: yeah
[12:00] <Hourd> dungeonduke: how was it impossible?
[12:01] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:01] * PiBot sets mode +v Cheery
[12:01] <Cheery> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=qualcomm_kill_blobs&num=1
[12:02] <Cheery> oh good thing I had toilet run just while ago.
[12:02] <dungeonduke> Hourd: farnell website went down for maintenance
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[12:03] <Hourd> ah right
[12:04] * sco` (~sco`@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[12:07] * sco` (~sco`@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[12:26] * MoleManCT (~alex@mail.calothi.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[12:33] <Hexxeh> think it kinda sucks how they're shipping to countries with loose standards first
[12:33] <Hexxeh> defeats the object of doing it first come first served
[12:34] * matthiasb (~matthias@93-82-36-187.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[12:38] * PiBot sets mode +v SpeedEvil
[12:41] <RaTTuS|BIG> yeah /me moves to the back of beyound
[12:41] * mdavey (~chatzilla@visitor-net.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[12:43] <lee> wow finally an update from Farnell that contains something approaching useful information
[12:44] * pygo (~pygo@fran.pygonia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:47] * jamesglanville (~james@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[12:47] <Mrkva> lee: yeah, but only approaching
[12:48] <lee> yep, but still better than previous attempts =)
[12:48] <Mrkva> yap
[12:48] <Mrkva> although the previous delivery estimate was better
[12:49] <lee> I suppose there's only so much they can say until they have something concrete, but tbh I'd rather have had this email a couple of weeks ago and weekly updates saying "nothing's changed"
[12:51] * Maroni (~user@046-220-102-128.dyn.orange.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:51] * PiBot sets mode +v Maroni
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[12:52] * PiBot sets mode +v FFes
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[12:56] * PiBot sets mode +v Forca
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[12:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Oejet
[13:00] * dungeonduke (~dukie@djkie.static.corbina.ru) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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[13:02] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[13:06] * FFes (~quassel@office.admea.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[13:09] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher708
[13:10] * cypher707 (cypher707@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:12] * androidlackey (~rg@unaffiliated/androidlackey) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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[13:18] * PiBot sets mode +v Sanitoeter
[13:19] * blemmm (~em@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:20] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/945
[13:20] * prebz (~prebz@dhcp-178201.eduroam.chalmers.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[13:32] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz
[13:33] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-203-51-89-83.lns11.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:34] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-203-51-89-83.lns11.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
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[13:34] * PiBot sets mode +v ocx
[13:35] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[13:37] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:37] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
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[13:37] * PiBot sets mode +v cypher707
[13:38] * netcarver (~netcarver@host86-149-149-20.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) has left #raspberrypi
[13:39] * cypher708 (cypher707@89-181-197-247.net.novis.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:40] <chris_99> i'm guessing you guys have seen the latest from farnell
[13:40] <Matt> morning
[13:40] <chris_99> mornin'
[13:43] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:43] * PiBot sets mode +v vipkilla
[13:44] <Cheery> chris_99: I haven't
[13:45] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:45] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[13:45] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has left #raspberrypi
[13:45] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[13:45] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes
[13:46] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/945 <- niec though
[13:46] <RaTTuS|BIG> nice*
[13:49] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-203-51-89-83.lns11.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[13:50] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
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[13:50] * PiBot sets mode +v victhor
[13:51] <IT_Sean> TGiF
[13:52] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad16.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:52] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[13:52] <ReggieUK> hello all
[13:54] <Matt> tgif indeed
[13:55] <Matt> although I prefer the extended tgifa
[13:58] <IT_Sean> dgifa?
[13:59] <Matt> the a being afternoon
[13:59] <IT_Sean> Ooooh
[14:02] <IT_Sean> It isn't here, though. It's 8am.
[14:02] <IT_Sean> So, i still have 9 hours before my weekend starts.
[14:03] <deafanon> fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu
[14:04] * brougham (brougham@wintermute.brougham.info) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] * PiBot sets mode +v brougham
[14:04] <deafanon> just saw those rPi pr0n pics at http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/945
[14:05] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:05] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[14:05] <deafanon> it's not fair to have photos of a pallet of them waved in front of us like that
[14:05] <deafanon> they're such a tease...
[14:06] <IT_Sean> deafanon: they are testing them now. They will be on release soon.
[14:06] * IT_Sean emails deafanon 3 gigs of photos of RaspberryPis
[14:10] <lee> at least you can point to those photos and say "look, it's a real product, it's really here, we're just waiting for the rubber stamp"
[14:11] <IT_Sean> Aye
[14:12] <tero> Some little bits and bobs of news ??? and more photos
[14:12] <tero> hmm
[14:12] <tero> i read that boobs
[14:12] <tero> :)
[14:12] <RaTTuS|BIG> rasoberry boobs
[14:12] <IT_Sean> raspberry boobs?
[14:13] <IT_Sean> Sounds... stickly.
[14:13] <IT_Sean> *sticky
[14:13] <tero> well i was going to say something, then I reminded myself that this is a pg13 chan
[14:13] <tero> so... nevermind
[14:13] <IT_Sean> Boobs are PG13.
[14:17] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: Procrast...)
[14:23] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:23] * PiBot sets mode +v chandoo
[14:24] <Matt> IT_Sean: we're in the same TZ, so not afternoon here yet either
[14:25] <IT_Sean> Ah. Right.
[14:25] <IT_Sean> I do agree, that tgifa > tgif.
[14:25] <Matt> I get to spend the day poking at dovecot and apache
[14:25] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:25] * PiBot sets mode +v datagutt
[14:26] <IT_Sean> I get to spend the day testing a new build of our software, and dealing with customer support tickets.
[14:36] <Matt> you write code, or just qa?
[14:38] <IT_Sean> I just QA the new soffware
[14:38] <IT_Sean> I don't touch the code with a 10m pole
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[14:38] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville1
[14:38] <Matt> hehe
[14:39] <Matt> closest I get to code these days is usually writing shell scripts
[14:39] <Matt> maybe the odd bit of php
[14:39] <IT_Sean> I just test the soffware, then point out all the things the programmers broke since the last build.
[14:40] <Matt> occasionally resorting to reading the source to figure out how something is meant to work
[14:40] <Matt> yup :)
[14:40] <Matt> I'm more on the admin side
[14:40] <IT_Sean> It's actually a bit of a pain. I basically have to go through and do every possible task, in every possible way, using every possible menu/button to make sure it's all working.
[14:40] <Matt> but working for a consulting company means I get a nice variety
[14:41] * Matt nods
[14:41] * Matt has an MEng in Software Engineering
[14:41] * IT_Sean doesn't
[14:42] * Kolin doesn't
[14:42] <Kolin> degrees are prety useless in the web development world
[14:43] <IT_Sean> BA in Computer & Information Systems, here.
[14:43] * prebz__ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:43] * PiBot sets mode +v prebz__
[14:43] * Matt just had a flashback to his 2nd year
[14:44] <Matt> we used to have a 9am lecture on friday mornings
[14:44] <IT_Sean> oh?
[14:44] <ReggieUK> IT_Sean, that doesn't sound too bad, sounds like you just have to poke stuff to see if it breaks
[14:44] <Matt> in a lecture theatre that was always on the warm side
[14:44] <Matt> with a lecturer who sounded like he was reading a bedtime story
[14:45] <Matt> talking about a subject that wasn't terribly interesting
[14:45] <Matt> I don't even remember what course it was
[14:45] <IT_Sean> ReggieUK: it's a LOT of stuff that needs poking.
[14:45] <Matt> something that involved talking about thin clients and fat clients IIRC
[14:45] * ReggieUK did some QA on 3rd party software we'd requested
[14:45] <Matt> the end result was often dozing off
[14:46] <ReggieUK> we got banned from using the word 'fail' in the end :D
[14:46] <IT_Sean> HAHA!
[14:46] <ReggieUK> programmers don't appreciate it
[14:46] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[14:46] <ReggieUK> apparently
[14:46] <IT_Sean> I'm not allowed to use the word "Bug" anymore.
[14:46] <Matt> testing can be very dry
[14:46] <ReggieUK> ahahaha :)
[14:46] <Matt> tedious
[14:46] <Matt> repetative
[14:46] <Matt> boring
[14:46] <IT_Sean> ReggieUK: i've got to refer to any bugs as "programming oversites"
[14:47] * IT_Sean rolls his eyes
[14:47] <Matt> surely you mean oversights?
[14:47] <ReggieUK> I guess it depends what kind of temperament you've got as to whether you can cope with testing
[14:47] <IT_Sean> that too
[14:47] <Matt> unless they're hovering over your office
[14:47] <IT_Sean> i just find it bloody boring.
[14:47] <Matt> as opposed to hoovering, which might actually be helpful
[14:47] <ReggieUK> I really enjoyed it myself, until we got banned from using that word
[14:48] <IT_Sean> It would... I dropped some crumbs a couple of days ago that are still there, Matt. My office could use a hoovering.
[14:48] <Matt> hrm, what're the chances if I call my boss he'll actually be at his desk
[14:49] * Matt is going for slim to none
[14:49] <IT_Sean> I think they started taking issue with the word "bug" when i started shouting down the corridor, to one of the programmers, "Oi! Dennis! Found a bug!!" (name changed to protect the guilty)
[14:49] <IT_Sean> ... every time i found one.
[14:50] <Matt> lol
[14:50] <Matt> do your guys at least write automated unit tests?
[14:51] <IT_Sean> We do have automatied testing. But, all it really does it make sure the software doesn't crap the bed after a few hundred operations.
[14:51] <IT_Sean> The actual new build checking is, for now at least, all done by hand.
[14:53] <Matt> fun
[14:53] <ReggieUK> we didn't, we were just given lists of what we were supposed to check and write down our findings for each function we were testing
[14:53] <ReggieUK> that'll lern them for giving us free will :D
[14:53] <IT_Sean> I have to actually check every last button and menu. With every new build.
[14:53] <IT_Sean> And our software has a LOT of buttons and menus.
[14:53] <ReggieUK> I'm guessing your software is a bit more critical than ours was
[14:54] <IT_Sean> Yes.
[14:54] <ReggieUK> this software failing wouldn't stop anyone from doing their work or anyone losing service
[14:54] <IT_Sean> Our software failing would be A Bad Thing.
[14:54] <ReggieUK> it was ??50k of junk imho
[14:54] * Matt nods
[14:54] <Matt> as I thought
[14:54] <Matt> slim to none
[14:54] * jamesglanville1 (~james@ Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[14:55] <IT_Sean> heh
[14:55] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[14:58] <IT_Sean> It's 9 am onna friday. Why would he be there?
[14:59] <ReggieUK> 2pm
[14:59] <Matt> actually the chance of catching him at his desk between 8am and 10am is pretty slim
[14:59] <Matt> actually 10:30 on a friday I think
[14:59] <Matt> cause he goes to a karate class
[14:59] * IT_Sean wishes he could walts into the office at 10.30am and get away with it
[15:00] <IT_Sean> *waltz
[15:00] <Matt> well he's one of the partners, so he can get away with it :)
[15:00] <IT_Sean> I'm the tech support guy. I cannot.
[15:00] <IT_Sean> :/
[15:00] <Matt> it's also not uncommon to get emails about stuff at 10:30pm, cause he's still working
[15:00] <IT_Sean> Oh.
[15:00] <IT_Sean> Ick.
[15:01] * dungeonduke (~dukie@djkie.static.corbina.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:01] * PiBot sets mode +v dungeonduke
[15:01] * IT_Sean finishes off (speakong of ick) his mug of the brownish swillwater that passes for tea in this office.
[15:01] <Matt> TBH, I could work pretty much any hours I choose, as long as 1) I put in at least 40/week and 2) I'm available during business hours if a client calls
[15:01] * PReDiToR (~PReDiToR@unaffiliated/preditor) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:01] * PiBot sets mode +v PReDiToR
[15:02] * IT_Sean is at his desk, at minimum, from 8 to 5, to handle customer calls and internal support issues.
[15:02] <Matt> as it happens, I choose to work ~8:30-5:30 with ~1hr lunch
[15:02] <IT_Sean> I usually show up around 7.50am, and am out the door a bit after 5
[15:02] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:02] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[15:03] <IT_Sean> So, you do the same as me, offset half an hour. 8-5 w/ 1 hour lunch here. (although, i generally work over at least part of my lunch.
[15:03] <IT_Sean> )
[15:03] <Matt> ATM, for example, I'm working whilst sitting on the sofa with the dog
[15:03] <PReDiToR> Sucks to be inside when England (and maybe other parts of Britain) is so warm.
[15:03] * Matt likes his working environment
[15:03] <Matt> PReDiToR: so go work outside :)
[15:03] <Kolin> PReDiToR: its even sunny in scotland!
[15:03] * Matt does this in the summer
[15:04] * ReggieUK is at home
[15:04] <Matt> it's what wifi, laptops and patio furniture are for
[15:04] <IT_Sean> I'm sitting at my desk, in my windowless cubical, freezing my arse off because they haven't ogtten around to glassing in the office servers yet.
[15:04] <PReDiToR> I do work outside, I have a very red right arm ;)
[15:04] <IT_Sean> heh
[15:04] <Matt> heh
[15:04] <Matt> drive a lot?
[15:04] <PReDiToR> Indeed
[15:04] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:04] <IT_Sean> I used to have a job like that, PReDiToR
[15:05] <PReDiToR> I love it. But ... Thanks to the blue guys in Westminster, I'll be in the house a lot soon I guess.
[15:06] * jamesglanville (~james@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
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[15:06] * PiBot sets mode +v chronofast
[15:06] * IT_Sean used to work 7am to 7pm, four days a week, installing & servicing CCTV systems. Didn't much care for spending most of the day battling traffic in a van.
[15:06] * Matt notes that thanks to the way things work, I can vote in both canadian and uk elections at the moment
[15:07] <Matt> IT_Sean: don't blame ya
[15:07] <PReDiToR> If voting changed anything they would make it illegal
[15:07] * setkeh` (~setkeh@CPE-58-168-230-117.lns6.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] * PiBot sets mode +v setkeh`
[15:07] <Matt> PReDiToR: trust me, you're a lot better with the goverment there than you'd be with ours
[15:07] <IT_Sean> People do NOT let you merge in when you are in a commercial vehicle, and you CANNOT se out the back of a long wheelbase Sprinter.
[15:07] <IT_Sean> *see
[15:07] * ReggieUK enjoys another freedom of being at home and lights another smoke
[15:07] <PReDiToR> That's why vite van men drive like that
[15:08] <PReDiToR> *white van men
[15:08] <IT_Sean> I learned very quickly to just shove in.
[15:08] <Matt> PReDiToR: "white van man" is less noticable here
[15:08] <Matt> cause so many more people drive pickups
[15:08] <IT_Sean> My van is twice as tall and over twice as long as your car. You WILL move over.
[15:09] <IT_Sean> My problem was the van was BRAND NEW. I could NOT dent it.
[15:09] <PReDiToR> lol
[15:09] * Matt tends to be courteous on the road
[15:09] <IT_Sean> nd don't tell my boss, but i did reverse it into a BMW my first week on the job (i'd never driven anything that big!)
[15:09] <PReDiToR> Bosses hate that. "Let Sean have the new van, he's a lot more careful than PReDiToR!"
[15:09] <IT_Sean> *former boss, that is.
[15:09] <Matt> so long as the other driver isn't being a total ass
[15:10] * jamesglanville (~james@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:10] <PReDiToR> If everyone was more polite the roads would flow easier
[15:10] <IT_Sean> This thing was right off the lot. It had 21 miles on it when they assigned it to me.
[15:10] <Matt> for example, pulling from a live lane into the merging lane, cutting past half a dozen cars, then trying to merge back in
[15:10] <ReggieUK> if everyone was more polite, life would be easier
[15:10] <PReDiToR> If everyone let one person out instead of getting right up the tail pipe of the guy in front all the roads would move
[15:11] <Matt> PReDiToR: exactl
[15:11] <Matt> y
[15:11] <IT_Sean> Still had that new van smell. 'least till i ate lunch in it. :p
[15:11] * jamesglanville (~james@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:11] * PiBot sets mode +v jamesglanville
[15:11] <Matt> in fact, if people left a more reasonable gap between them and the car in front, traffic would flow better in general
[15:11] <PReDiToR> ReggieUK - ++ that
[15:11] <Matt> people could change lanes when they needed to
[15:12] <Matt> and you wouldn't get the "red wave" effect
[15:12] <Matt> where drivers overreact to the driver in front braking, because they're too close
[15:12] <PReDiToR> Matt - You'd still have underconfident drivers slamming the anchors on when someone got in front of them, even if they were just passing through the lane.
[15:12] <Matt> ReggieUK: this is the foundation of most religions :)
[15:12] * IT_Sean usually drives too quickly for anyone to get up his trumpet
[15:13] <Matt> "be nice to other people"
[15:13] <PReDiToR> It costs nothing to be nicce
[15:13] <Kolin> i hate other drivers in general
[15:14] <Matt> quite so :)
[15:14] <Kolin> I should get a road all to my self
[15:14] <IT_Sean> The roads would be a much better place if i were the only one allowed to use them
[15:14] <PReDiToR> Drive on a night, it feels like you are
[15:14] * Lewmar (~Lewmar@gateway/tor-sasl/lewmar) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:14] * PiBot sets mode +v Lewmar
[15:14] <IT_Sean> Yeah, but thats when all the police camp out to catch you speeding.
[15:14] <PReDiToR> Blasting down the M1 at a ton twenty at 4am is awesome.
[15:15] <IT_Sean> "But officer, the road is EMPTY. I should be allowed to do 120"
[15:15] <Kolin> to be fair, if you crash at 120 on an empty motorway your not going to hurt anyone else
[15:15] <Kolin> maybe a cow
[15:15] <IT_Sean> EXACTLY my point!
[15:15] <PReDiToR> Time it so that they can't be out on the roads with their radars, Saturday night at 3am they HAVE to be in city centres mopping up drunks.
[15:16] <Kolin> lol PReDiToR
[15:16] <IT_Sean> There is no safe time to speed here.
[15:16] <IT_Sean> It just comes down to luck.
[15:16] <IT_Sean> ... and being able to spot them hiding before they clock you.
[15:16] <Kolin> they do seem to camp out in the same places though
[15:16] <PReDiToR> Nice shiny hi-vis squares? BRAKE!
[15:17] * IT_Sean got done for 74 in a 50 a few years ago by an unmarked car.
[15:17] <PReDiToR> TFFT, just an ambulance, let the adrenaline settle
[15:17] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:17] * PiBot sets mode +v UnderSampled
[15:17] <Matt> PReDiToR: you've got this proliferation of average speed cameras now tho, right?
[15:18] <PReDiToR> Ugh
[15:18] <PReDiToR> Yeah. I need a Stihl saw for those
[15:18] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:18] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[15:18] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Changing host)
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[15:18] * PiBot sets mode +v shirro
[15:19] <PReDiToR> 5 miles and a camera every 0.7 miles, limiting you to average of 50mph between them. The only thing to do is use the cruise control, if you have it.
[15:19] <Matt> no fixed speed cameras in ontario :)
[15:19] <IT_Sean> No speed cameras at all in NJ
[15:20] <Matt> actually, no speed cameras in ON
[15:20] <PReDiToR> I'm from North Yorkshire, we don't have any fixed speed cameras ... yet.
[15:20] <Matt> just cops with radar
[15:20] <Matt> PReDiToR: and some nice driving too :)
[15:20] <Matt> out across the moors
[15:20] <PReDiToR> Yeah, beautiful place
[15:20] <Kolin> aparently average speed cameras dont work if you change lane
[15:20] <PReDiToR> Steam trains too
[15:20] <Kolin> i wouldent want to test that one though
[15:20] <PReDiToR> Kolin - I was just about to say that
[15:21] <IT_Sean> It took me a few minutes to realise why my cab driver was slowing down & speeding up so much on the M5 a few weeks ago. He was sprinting between the speed cameras. :|
[15:21] <IT_Sean> Up to 110. Down to 60.
[15:21] <IT_Sean> Back up to 110. Back down to 60.
[15:21] <PReDiToR> And, a HUGE American early warning radar installation right in the middle of those moors. A beautiful sight.
[15:21] * Matt is gonna be back in the UK for a couple of weeks in august/september
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[15:22] <PReDiToR> That's the official explanation, we all figure it to be ECHELON.
[15:22] <IT_Sean> So not only did i arrive at the airport ??35 lighter, but seasick as well.
[15:23] <Matt> I think everyone here who takes the 407 just hopes they never decide to do average speed measurement
[15:23] <Matt> it's a fully automated toll road
[15:23] <Matt> so they know when you got on, when you got off, and the distance between the two points
[15:23] <Matt> and noone adheres to the speed limit
[15:24] <PReDiToR> The Germans have the right idea. Build a straight line road from top to bottom of the country and let people drive as fast as they like. Darwin will sort out the wheat from the chaff
[15:24] <ReggieUK> it's only a matter of time
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[15:24] <IT_Sean> The Germans do come up with the correct solution a shocking number of times.
[15:24] <ReggieUK> trouble is, when someone else is involved in the darwin awards not by their own making, kind of makes it a daft idea
[15:24] <chronofast> Has anyone used the openelec RP distro in quemu? Is there any benefit over debian w/ xbmc? I understand that it's smaller, lighter, less useful, but does that also mean much faster on the RP?
[15:24] <PReDiToR> They said that about the A1-M1 link road. Cameras all over it, the ability to track you every inch, yet nobody sticks to the limits there either.
[15:25] * j11c (~j11c@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[15:25] <Matt> chronofast: you're not actually trying to get us on topic are you? :)
[15:25] <ReggieUK> like I say, it's a matter of time
[15:25] <chronofast> ...maybe.. just... a .... little
[15:25] <ReggieUK> might not be for 10-20 years but they will track your every road movement sooner or later
[15:25] <PReDiToR> Oh, I didn't realise there was a topic for the channel, what's it all about, Alfie?
[15:25] <IT_Sean> hehe
[15:26] <PReDiToR> Those pics of the pallets are pr0n
[15:26] <chronofast> so that's a no about the openelec RP distro?
[15:27] <ReggieUK> chronofast, I haven't
[15:27] <Matt> I guess I should probably read this makefile
[15:27] <chronofast> ill just have to give it a go myself then
[15:27] <Matt> rather than just building stuff based on what fails
[15:28] <ReggieUK> that can be hit and miss too
[15:28] <ReggieUK> depending on how the makefile was produced
[15:28] <IT_Sean> belgum!
[15:28] <IT_Sean> We just got a new version of the soffware.
[15:29] <Matt> IT_Sean: have fun :)
[15:29] * IT_Sean is quite tempted to go fart in the programming department.
[15:30] <Matt> there we go
[15:30] <Matt> that's lib-dovecot and lib-dovecotstorage built
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[15:30] <Matt> let's see if dsync builds now
[15:30] <IT_Sean> Ahh... I feel better now.
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[15:30] <Matt> ahha! it does too :)
[15:31] <Matt> saves me building the whole damn package just for one program :)
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[16:18] <mkopack> Ok, who else here almost nutted when you saw the picture of the 50 RPi's in the box? LOL
[16:19] <IT_Sean> Almost?
[16:19] <IT_Sean> :p
[16:19] <ReggieUK> just you 2 weirdos
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[16:25] <OneFix_Work> No, but If the box were on my doorstep, I might...
[16:25] <OneFix_Work> Pics don't do it for me :)
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[16:30] <Matt> helpful
[16:30] <Matt> e-mail from $boss
[16:30] <Matt> he's not going to be in the office today at all
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[16:30] <Matt> on the plus side, it's time for coffee :)
[16:31] <OneFix_Work> Anyone else read the element 14 post by Pete Lomas? Basically he agrees with getting the certification before shipping.
[16:32] <mkopack> What can I say, I'm a visual guy :)
[16:33] <mkopack> OneFix: yeah read that yesterday. I think it's the right call.. Plus they got the response back from BIS that said, yes, they're NOT exempt based on the numbers and types of people who have ordered, so they have to do it.
[16:34] * prebz__ (~prebz@c83-248-137-143.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:34] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: Yea, they have also said that BIS has been very supportive of the project...and apparently the immediate concern over the interference from the HDMI port was based on the use of a shoddy HDMI cable
[16:34] <mkopack> Contemplating a drive out to Birmingham, Alabama on Sunday to see the Indycar race??? Barbers is an AWESOME track??? Can see just about everything no matter where you sit
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[16:35] <mkopack> Onefix: and a misconfiguration in some software that was telling the HDMI port to be overdriven, causing it to blast out RF. They think it's responsible for at least 10db and that's all they need to get it within compliance
[16:35] * jthunder (~jthunder@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:35] * jthunder_ is now known as jthunder
[16:37] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: Right. The big question is, once the foundation knows they have a properly performing product, then how long before they get the CE blessing?
[16:38] <mkopack> There's no "They get CE blessing"
[16:38] <mkopack> CE/FCC cert is a self-cert.
[16:38] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: I thought that CE had to be done independently...
[16:38] <mkopack> You do the tests, you document it, to check to see if it meets the requirements set by FCC/CE.
[16:39] * ctyler (~chris@global.proximity.on.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:39] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: But, they have to submit some sort of documentation / paper work once the testing is done, right?
[16:39] <mkopack> If it does you put the labels on and keep the testing documentation in a vault, ready to be produced if challenged.
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[16:39] <mkopack> I assume they have to file SOME sort of paperwork, but I don't think that's something they have to wait on.
[16:39] <mkopack> more like just bookkeeping
[16:40] <mkopack> I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got from the various posts the RPF and others have put up on the subject
[16:40] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad11.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[16:41] <Matt> my laptop needs more RAM
[16:41] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: Oh, ok. So, once their own testing is completed then they can begin putting the CE stickers on the boards and shipping them out...and presumably they could simply print up a flyer to go in with the board that has the logo on it...
[16:41] <Matt> -/+ buffers/cache: 2584544 498000
[16:41] <Matt> Swap: 4194300 1293128 2901172
[16:41] <mkopack> So it's mostly just an issue of them getting back into the test setup, rerunning the tests, and make sure it fits
[16:42] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: And I believe they said that both companies they are working with have their own testing setups.
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[16:42] <mkopack> Mind you they only ran the prelim tests
[16:42] <mkopack> So, I don't expect this to take more than another 2 weeks??? at most
[16:42] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: So, it's not a matter of finding time on expensive equipment.
[16:44] <mkopack> yeah
[16:44] * canard (~user@pc-sah.cis.strath.ac.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:44] <mkopack> So let's keep our fingers crossed
[16:48] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: So, presumably, the test they are going to do on Monday is going to be the first "full" test and then they would do any modifications that need to be done, and if all goes right, the 2nd "full" test is a go...
[16:49] <mkopack> Well, we can only speculate...
[16:49] <mkopack> But I guess that's probably the case
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[16:50] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: So, is this actually covering both CE and FCC or only CE certification?
[16:53] <mkopack> They said that FCC and CE have basically the same requirements, so it's doing both. The Australian folks are freaking out a bit about C-Tick since nothing's been said about that??? But I assume it likewise has similar requirements, so it's probably just a matter of paperwork.
[16:53] <OneFix_Work> Or in other words, isn't there an agreement between the EU and US to accept CE certification?
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[16:56] <OneFix_Work> Yea, wikipedia says there are "agreements on mutual recognition of conformity assessment" between the EU, US, Japan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Israel
[16:56] <drazyl> that's good
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[16:57] <OneFix_Work> But, they do need to affix the CE mark "legibly and indelibly" to the product.
[16:58] <PaulFertser> What's interesting is that the post seems to be indicating that all modifications (except for using a better shielded hdmi cable) are software-only: they tweak the register responsible for the drive strength of the HDMI signals and probably enable some "spread spectrum" options for the PLLs.
[16:59] <Henchman21> http://www.tntmagazine.com/media/News/cat_bread_1.jpg
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[17:00] <OneFix_Work> PaulFertser: Right, that's because the whole board is really just a bunch of ports attached to the BroadCom chip at the center of the whole thing...and everything can be changed by modifying the bootstrap
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[17:01] <OneFix_Work> Henchman21: Are you breading cats?
[17:01] <PaulFertser> OneFix_Work: i bet they wouldn't have been able to do that if they didn't have access to the broadcom internal documentation.
[17:01] <Henchman21> nah man the cat did it himself
[17:02] <OneFix_Work> PaulFertser: The rumor is that BroadCom has a command line "tool" that can be used to modify most of the parameters...
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[17:03] <aditsu> pretty nice - http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/status-updates-a-k-a-wheres-my-pi-at
[17:03] <PaulFertser> OneFix_Work: well, one can say that some basic tool to tweak arbitrary registers fits your description.
[17:04] <OneFix_Work> PaulFertser: There were indications a while back that some version of the tool may be made available to end users, since it also allows them to turn on/off certain features at will
[17:05] <PaulFertser> OneFix_Work: that's good to hear.
[17:05] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:06] <OneFix_Work> PaulFertser: For instance, the ability to turn off the video signal on devices that didn't require it would presumably save power
[17:06] <PaulFertser> OneFix_Work: are you sure that it shouldn't happen automatically per standard console blanking?
[17:06] <PaulFertser> There shouldn't be a tool needed for that.
[17:07] <OneFix_Work> PaulFertser It might, but that's just a "for instance"...one of the more useful features would be the ability to underclock/overclock the CPU as needed
[17:07] <PaulFertser> OneFix_Work: and that should be inside the kernel, hooked into the standard cpufreq framework ;)
[17:07] <PaulFertser> + regulators of course
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[17:13] <mkopack> Wow, I knew this would happen, but not this soon - RIM's stock trading was halted after dropping below $1 after announcing a $1B loss. All the senior execs are also being kicked out.
[17:14] <mkopack> I give RIM < 2 yrs left
[17:14] <traeak> yup
[17:15] <traeak> go from big player to nobody
[17:15] <traeak> and they should be allowed to go under
[17:16] <haltdef> yeah, fuck the 17k people who'd be out of a job
[17:16] <haltdef> bastards
[17:16] <OneFix_Work> PaulFertser: Not really for the overclocking...you're probably going to have to change some sort of maximum value in the bootstrap to make overclocking possible
[17:16] <traeak> i'm not into entitlements, and rim's loss means someone else is gaining
[17:17] <traeak> so those 17k people can find new jobs, even if inconvenient
[17:17] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: RIM won't survive...they will be purchased by Dell or someone similar.
[17:17] <traeak> id on't buy this entitlement crap, sorry it only wastes resources and destroys overall wealth
[17:17] <traeak> dell just dumped their smartphones
[17:18] <traeak> palm was bought by HP and has been effectively killed
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[17:18] <traeak> i doubt anyone would touch rim
[17:18] <traeak> at least not for anything but their patents
[17:18] <OneFix_Work> traeak: I know, bad choice of company, but the problem is that noone really want's BlackberryOS
[17:18] <mkopack> Yeah, they'd actually be ripe for MS to buy and use as their hardware manufacturer to try to get back into the game. MS is getting killed right now. I don't know a single person with a Windows phone. Everyone I know has either Apple or Android.
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[17:19] <traeak> MS pretty much owns nokia
[17:19] <traeak> and MS's agent elop or whoever killt nokia single handedly
[17:19] <mkopack> yeah, but that's going nowhere fast
[17:19] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5ac9ad3c.bb.sky.com) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[17:19] <RaTTuS|BIG> I have a samsung phone .... to does what I need it to
[17:19] <OneFix_Work> Anyone that wanted RIM would want them to start making phones with Android or Windows Phone
[17:19] * Reggie__ is now known as ReggieUK
[17:19] <traeak> if rim actually does any of their own manufacturing
[17:20] <mkopack> The big appeal of BB has always been the BB Mail.. I don't see what the big deal about it is but many business users love it. That would be a ripe cherry to pluck for MS
[17:20] <traeak> perhaps MS might want them if they think they can get a foot into business with it
[17:20] <mkopack> If they could integrate their stuff into BB and bring it forward to something compelling, they might regain some business users
[17:20] <RaTTuS|BIG> RaspberryPiBB
[17:21] <Matt> it's not really the mail persey
[17:21] <mkopack> Businesses have been reluctant to go Android or iPhone until very recently, so there's still a window of opportunity for BB to get back business market, but the product must be compelling against the alternatives, and right now it's not
[17:21] <Matt> more the enterprise administration
[17:21] <traeak> mkopack: unfortunately for MS they've laready done tons and tons of development on wp7, etc. iphone5 is coming up soon. I'm sure the MS shareholders are getting sick and tired of "more development"
[17:21] <traeak> android 4.0 is out
[17:21] <OneFix_Work> BlackberryOS is really based on QNX which is also what parts of AmigaOS were built on (if that tells you how old the technology is)
[17:21] <traeak> ms is barely in the market and still not growing
[17:22] <traeak> problem with qnx is it doesn't scale well (up)
[17:22] <traeak> for phones its probably okay i guess
[17:22] <traeak> hmm
[17:22] <mkopack> Yup, and I don't see Windows 8 being this big messiah in the tablet space that MS keeps hoping it will be??? Apple F'ing OWNS that market with the iPad??? Android is still having a hard time competing there. Windows? Not going to cut it.
[17:22] <OneFix_Work> traeak: Well, WP7 is just an interim solution. Windows 8 plans on merging Windows Phone and Windows Desktop
[17:22] <ReggieUK> wasn't the BB mail stuff free, which was it's big appeal
[17:23] <ReggieUK> and very private?
[17:23] <mkopack> How private can it be when every message has to go through BB's servers??
[17:23] <traeak> OneFix_Work: sure, MS is only late to the market by what? 5 or 6 years???
[17:23] <OneFix_Work> traeak: Which is also what Apple is planning to do with iOS and MacOSX..,
[17:23] <mkopack> I've never understood why a business would WANT to use somebody else's centralized servers for corporate mail
[17:24] <traeak> OneFix_Work: yeah, and they've been looking at that with actual products that have been shipping for several years that are successful on both sides
[17:24] <ReggieUK> takes the load of their internal networks
[17:24] <ReggieUK> off*
[17:24] <traeak> OneFix_Work: i knwo what you are saying but MS has stakced the deck against itself pretty heavily and may not be able to buy itself out of the hole this time
[17:24] <mkopack> Onefix: Maybe, they've never come out and said they're going to MERGE the product lines??? and to a degree they're already merged. The core OS is the same on iOS and OSX, it's just the UI layer is different. And it's more they're borrowing concepts from the iOS and putting them into OSX.
[17:24] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: Because, businesses have been told "you aren't in the business of IT". The idea (although it is flawed) is "why should a bread manufacturer worry about running email servers"
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[17:25] <OneFix_Work> traeak: I don't know. What I like is the fast that the 2 dominate OSes in the smartphone market are both UNIX variants
[17:25] <mkopack> Maybe but it also opens up the possibility of your corporate information getting stolen??? And all those BB network outages that they've had like once every 4-6 months hasn't helped either
[17:26] * terminator is now known as sparkplug
[17:26] <ReggieUK> I'd say the outages are the issue
[17:26] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: Like I said, it's a flawed argument, but it's a pretty good one.
[17:27] <mkopack> At least when you control the servers, if it goes down, you can scream at your own IT dept or shitcan somebody??? When BB's servers go down, the most you can do is scream "F!!!" and be no better off??? along with the 6Million other people doing the same thing.
[17:27] <ReggieUK> it's kind of flawed but it's why people use <insert random free email provider> for their business emails in small businesses/self employed
[17:27] <OneFix_Work> ReggieUK: Moreso, the issue is that people want to use apps and play games on their phones, and CONSUMERS, not businesses have bought smartphones.
[17:27] <ReggieUK> because most don't care about email servers
[17:28] <ReggieUK> well, yeah, now it's consumers that have driven smart phones but it was always businesses that started it off
[17:28] <traeak> OneFix_Work: we're not beating up on you, i understand you are playing devil's advocate. I'm actually glad to finally see that arrogant market abusing company on the verge of finally getting what it deserves: rejection in the market.
[17:28] <mkopack> Sure, in a small business, makes sense. Why my company says "Blackberry's are ok, but iPhones and Androids are not allowed to be tied to your company email" I don't get.
[17:28] <haltdef> it upsets me when I see vans with <comanyname>@yahoo.com on the side of them :(
[17:28] <traeak> OneFix_Work: unfortuantely apple is an even worse MS wannabe
[17:28] <OneFix_Work> ReggieUK: RIM screwed up their application development and by the time they tried to "fix" it, Android and iPhone had already stolen their lunch and was out in the playground...
[17:28] <ReggieUK> probably because someone hacked iOS and android :)
[17:29] <traeak> typical for large publicly traded company
[17:29] <ReggieUK> although hacking android is probably not quite the right term
[17:29] <traeak> any management hired's job is to try to ensure smooth sailing, not take risks
[17:29] <traeak> so basically they hire incompetent nice people who don't understand the market
[17:29] <traeak> anyways
[17:30] <traeak> its sad, android has some critical faults
[17:30] <ReggieUK> indeed, if we recommend, supply and police what you're plugging into our network then we've only got ourselves to blame if it all goes tits up
[17:30] <traeak> those can still be corrected though
[17:30] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[17:30] <OneFix_Work> traeak: Problem is, these companies (like RIM) have convinced the management that their is less risk in trusting them with their data than trusting their own employees
[17:31] <OneFix_Work> traeak: What critical faults are those?
[17:31] <ReggieUK> which is probably not far from the truth in a lot of companies
[17:32] <traeak> OneFix_Work: "the cloud" thing used to perplex me. Then I talked with several sets of business folks. Every single one of them was frustrated with their own IT departments, cost, ineffectiveness, shortsightedness. And then everything made sense. Typical company IT has driven "the cloud".
[17:32] <traeak> frankly I hate company IT departments as well. Most of them are idiots who dont' know anything, even in companies that rely on things like data processing, etc.
[17:32] <ReggieUK> from what I've seen of company IT policies, right-wing archaic fascists somehow seems a tame description :D
[17:33] <ReggieUK> thing is, from my experience, the 'boots on the ground' guys aren't idiots
[17:33] <ReggieUK> its the policy makers
[17:33] <traeak> right wing and fascism are diametrically opposed, btw
[17:33] <ReggieUK> who couldn't find their arse if they had their hand in their back pocket
[17:33] <traeak> it's both
[17:34] <traeak> i got some IT staff fired because they were passing money to their buddies at other companies
[17:34] <ReggieUK> I actually meant tossers but happy to be corrected either way :D
[17:34] <traeak> i didn't get them fired over that, i made management "interested" in what was going on which uncovered shit like this
[17:34] <traeak> ie: IT departments run disconnected from the company and lose sight of what success means to a company
[17:35] <traeak> then high level management wonders why they have this entity around
[17:35] <traeak> high level managemtn of course failed by not keeping it integrated
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[17:37] <traeak> people asking me about "the cloud" used to irritate me until I realized what was really going on
[17:39] <pitz> well the big problem with IT is that the've filled it full of incompetents just because thhose incompetent people work chheap.. usually on work visas
[17:39] <pitz> from the poor parts of Asia like India
[17:39] <pitz> nobody trusts them
[17:40] <pitz> nobody wants anything to do with them
[17:40] <pitz> so they're just one giant ghetto
[17:40] <pitz> in a company. not capable of doing anything
[17:40] <ReggieUK> not true in the company I was in
[17:40] <traeak> pitz: not the companies i work with
[17:41] <traeak> i tend to work mostly with technology type companies
[17:41] <traeak> the customers i mean
[17:41] <pitz> that's whaht i've seen many times... when it takes you 5 calls to the India-based help desk to change your password because they're incompetent
[17:41] <pitz> you sure as heck aren't going to trust your IT migration to the very same people. so projects just don't get done...
[17:41] <traeak> one of them, they are a data provider for the obliques for google maps/earth
[17:41] <ReggieUK> mine was a very big umbrella company that sold 'white-label' solutions to large corporate entities
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[17:42] <ReggieUK> some of that was call centre based
[17:42] <traeak> the one company who's IT i helped fix to some degree was at one point providing a huge chunk of microsoft's imagery
[17:43] <ReggieUK> and all in the UK
[17:43] <traeak> until MS stepped in and started to do that themselves
[17:43] <ReggieUK> no one from bangalore called kevin!!
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[17:44] <traeak> the base problem are these companies are run by high level management who knows how to squeeze investors for money but don't relaly know how to really run a company, and this computer stuff is just magic that happens and it's way too scary to understand what's going on
[17:44] <ReggieUK> not that that's a bad thing, kevin squeezed 4 more Mbits out of my downstream today :D
[17:45] <traeak> and when the IT center is basically a front end call center for HP and/or Dell it racks up tons of expenses
[17:45] <traeak> okay rant off
[17:45] <traeak> hehe
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[17:47] <mkopack> When I worked at IBM, my god, that's all it was - if we were looking to bring people in contractors for projects, EVERY candidate we'd get was an H1B from India, and we were constantly having entire projects shipped out to India via outsourcing. They'd do all the programming work, we'd do all the design??? And we'd have to basically document the design to the letter because they didn't have the competence there to "figure it out" as
[17:47] <mkopack> went along.
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[17:48] <mkopack> By the time we went through the hassle of having to document everything to the letter, we could have just done it ourselves for less money and in less time
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[17:48] <mkopack> But management didn't' see it that way??? They felt they were "saving money by outsourcing"
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[17:49] <mkopack> We would get some of these H1B contractors who would be sent to us (we were doing a Lotus Notes system at the time) who had never ACTUALLY used Notes - just had been trained on how to pass the certification exam..
[17:50] <mkopack> One girl got hired on, and in the first week of the project we'd ask her to do something in Notes and she'd constantly ask "How do I do that?" And we'd ask her "Aren't you certified Notes Developer???" "Yes"??? "Then How can you NOT know how to do this???" "Well, I've never actually used Notes???"
[17:50] * j11csd is now known as j11c
[17:51] <pitz> yup mkopack, that's the sort of junk i've seen.. or they 'pretend' to know SAP but they're 23 and have never been involved in business in their lives...
[17:51] <mkopack> She was canned by the end of the week, and the contracting firm that sent her to us was blackballed
[17:51] <mkopack> But management LOVED those people because they were CHEAP
[17:51] <pitz> h1-b is the worst, the visa should be abolished completely, nothing good ever came out of it..
[17:51] <mkopack> Useles, but cheap
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[17:52] <mkopack> Now, SOME of them are great.. Just like SOME domestic folks are fantastic, some are so-so, some suck...
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[17:53] <traeak> i'm not used to working with mega corps, mostly smaller sized companies, 50-500 or so people, etc
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[18:21] <mkopack> yay, so far it looks like my ROS build on my PanadaBoard ES last night is working right
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[18:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[19:21] <piless> is it out yet?
[19:22] <Matt> it's out on your windowsill
[19:22] <piless> I don't have a windowsill
[19:22] <Matt> sure you do... you just hav e to climb outside...
[19:22] <Matt> :)
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[19:26] <hotwings> sucks us american customers have to wait for CE certification considering we're in america and not europe
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[19:27] <traeak> heh
[19:27] <traeak> we shouldn't *have* to
[19:28] <mkopack> hot: We have to wait just like the EU people do...
[19:28] <mkopack> Honestly, it sounds like NOTHING is shipping until the CE cert happens
[19:28] <mkopack> Otherwise the RPF would have given that first 2000 to the distribs already to send to the non-anything certification countries customers
[19:29] <jamesglanville> how long do you reckon after the ce certification goes through people will actually get the things? I'm thinking shipping and processing to rs/farnell is going to take a while :(
[19:30] <Gadget-Mac> I'd have thought a couple of days to get from RPF to RS/Farnell
[19:31] <mkopack> Yeah, at most a cople days to get to RS/Farn, and the a couple days after that to get out to customers (if even)
[19:31] <piless> couple days? HA.
[19:32] <mkopack> They also are expecting more of the remaining 8000 from the original batch to arrive in the next 2 weeks
[19:32] <Gadget-Mac> Thats what 2000 looks like http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/26-mar-2012-001.jpg
[19:32] <mkopack> exacty. a single pallet.
[19:33] <mkopack> That pallet will be split between RS+Farnell???
[19:33] <mkopack> So we're talking, literally, 1 day to get it from RPF to each of them.
[19:33] <mkopack> Then it's up to them to figure out how they're splitting up what they have to their customers
[19:33] <jamesglanville> I wonder how much that pallet weighs
[19:34] <urs> There's demand for more than 100 of these pallets.
[19:34] <mkopack> Mostly empty air
[19:34] <jamesglanville> it seems entirely possible that you could hoist 2000 computers easily
[19:34] <ReggieUK> so that's what a pallet of stickers looks like?
[19:34] * MuNk (~NOP@2001:470:1f09:1ec1:210:75ff:fe1a:bdb0) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:34] <mkopack> the cardboard boxes probably weigh as much as the RPIs in them
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[19:35] <Gadget-Mac> tbh, it was always going to be hard to argue that 10K was purely for development and hence no need for certs
[19:37] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
[19:37] <hotwings> [10:27:11] <mkopack> Honestly, it sounds like NOTHING is shipping until the CE cert happens <-- thats what i mean. we dont need the CE mark here :\
[19:38] <hotwings> but still have to wait for it
[19:38] <mkopack> hot: No, we need the CE+FCC mark (which has the same requirements)
[19:38] <hotwings> hmm, you have a link to that? i just read the opposite. no ce required here, but fcc yes
[19:40] <ReggieUK> either way, no one is getting one and as they are being sold from this country, they'll do what they have to do to cover their arses
[19:40] <piless> I heard that ffc requirements are more stringent
[19:40] <piless> UK > USA anyways
[19:41] <mkopack> If you get CE apparently it's transferable to other regions
[19:41] <OneFix_Work> traeak: Only problem is, it's really no better in "the cloud"...mostly it's just the incompetence you do see versus the incompetence you don't see.
[19:41] <mkopack> according to something on wikipedia that OneFix found earlier
[19:41] <piless> mkopack: other regions within the eu or worldwide?
[19:41] <mkopack> worldwide apparently
[19:42] <piless> I dunno why, ce is a EU mark.
[19:42] <OneFix_Work> mkopack: Well, with nations like US, Canada, Australia, Japan, Israel, etc
[19:42] <mkopack> some sort of international agreement
[19:42] <mkopack> right
[19:42] <piless> western countries?
[19:42] <mkopack> industrialized ones
[19:42] <OneFix_Work> piless: Because the EU also accepts FCC certification
[19:43] <mkopack> So as long as you get one, you're fine to sell in any of those regions
[19:43] <piless> I say fuck it, cancel the whole thing. Start over with a new design
[19:43] <OneFix_Work> piless: It means that companies don't have to pay to re-certify in every region
[19:43] <traeak> OneFix_Work: oh i know, that's why i was initially so annoyed by peole asking me about "the cloud" stuff
[19:43] <mkopack> but from what Eben replied to my questions about FCC, he said that they were doing the FCC cert tests at the same time as the CE ones
[19:43] <markus> hello all
[19:43] <traeak> OneFix_Work: same when people were always asking us about "gpu" crap
[19:43] <mkopack> hey markus
[19:44] <markus> is usb direct current?
[19:44] <piless> I'm going to make sure to piss all of you guys off by turning my pi into an xbmc player
[19:44] <mjr> markus, yes
[19:44] <piless> markus: yes
[19:44] <piless> 5v dc
[19:45] <traeak> piless: grab a mele a1000 for that :-p
[19:45] <OneFix_Work> traeak: Yea, well...to be honest, GPUs are fairly new technology. There was a time not so long ago, when your CPU was more powerful than your GPU :)
[19:45] <traeak> OneFix_Work: for most things the cpu is still far more powerful.
[19:45] <piless> OneFix_Work: GPU's have been more powerful for ages, it's just that you haven't been able to harness that power for processing.
[19:46] <traeak> OneFix_Work: and i can easily build a xeon based system without a gpu that takes less power than just a gpu by itself (hehe, stupdi nvidia)
[19:46] <piless> Isn't cracking a cipher supposed to be a 100x faster with a consumer gpu than a consumer cpu
[19:46] <mjr> cracking a cipher isn't most things
[19:46] <traeak> sure, but what about my physics simulations?
[19:47] <OneFix_Work> traeak: And if I suggested doing anything math related with my video card, I would probably have been locked in the loony bin :)
[19:47] <piless> or generating bitcoins
[19:47] <hotwings> gpu are not universally faster at all math functions
[19:47] <ReggieUK> isn't that only if the gpu has an api that allows you to do that kind of stuff
[19:47] <ReggieUK> like cuda
[19:48] <traeak> OneFix_Work: i would lock you up for that, takes tons less effort to code math stuff for cpus and the performance is fairly predictable
[19:48] <traeak> double precision fun
[19:48] <piless> lol I was bullshitting anyway
[19:49] <traeak> :-p
[19:49] <OneFix_Work> Well, the point is that CPUs are more like general purpose calculators, and GPUs are more specialized
[19:50] <piless> for displaying porn
[19:50] <ReggieUK> gpus are very good at parallel processing
[19:50] <piless> you could watch two pornos at the same time
[19:51] <OneFix_Work> piless: Well, pretty much...only that specialization can be "twisted" into other uses...like encoding/decoding video
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[19:51] <OneFix_Work> piless: Especially when manufacturers put in a few extra instructions that make it possible.
[19:51] <piless> OneFix_Work: what if it's cgi porn?
[19:51] * mchou (~quassel@unaffiliated/mchou) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:51] <OneFix_Work> piless: CGI? You mean like on the web? :)
[19:52] <OneFix_Work> piless: I prefer php pr0n :)
[19:52] <OneFix_Work> piless: Or maybe some perl pr0n
[19:52] <piless> OneFix_Work: computer generated image
[19:52] <mjr> php porn sounds unsafe
[19:52] <OneFix_Work> piless: I know :)
[19:52] <OneFix_Work> mjr: And perl pr0n sounds any better???
[19:53] <mjr> well, better, but rather obscure
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[19:53] <piless> ruby porn
[19:53] <mjr> like, is that thing a tentacle and where does it go?
[19:54] <piless> mjr: that would be python porn
[19:54] <hotwings> OneFix_Work - theres a reason you dont see cuda accelerated h264 encoders, and its not cuz theyre not possible
[19:54] <piless> hotwings: nothing is impossible
[19:54] <piless> just highly improbable
[19:54] <ReggieUK> hotwings, but you do, badaboom has been doing it for years
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[19:55] <hotwings> in most cases there is 0 benefit, and some cases encoding is slower
[19:56] <mkopack> The big issue with GPU processing is that there has to be a way to split the work into small chunks that can be done in parallel. If your workload is largely linear in nature, you're not going to get any benefit doing it on a GPU (probably significantly slower actually)
[19:56] <hotwings> piless - nobody said anything about something being impossible so what are you talking about?
[19:56] <mkopack> Kinda wishing I had taken that GPU programming class last summer. It wasn't something offered on a regular basis so doubt I'll get another chance at it
[19:57] <traeak> mkopack: the short of it is: you have to *jam* your problem into a gpu. the gpu is a sledge hammer designed for driving certain types of spikes
[19:57] <mkopack> exactly
[19:57] <mkopack> and most algorithms are NOT designed to be done multithreaded
[19:57] <traeak> and plenty of people try to drive tacks or floss their teeth with them :-p
[19:57] <traeak> mkopack: it depends on what granularity honestly
[19:57] <mkopack> They either need to be done linearly, or the effect of one calculation changes the data in a way that would effect the other calculations
[19:57] <traeak> in my experience with cpus
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[19:58] <traeak> you have "instruction level" parallelism via vector units and task level parallelism at the higher level
[19:58] <mkopack> So there's really a need to have problems that exhibit independence both in processing and data parallelization to be useful
[19:58] * Mavy-bnc is now known as Mavy
[19:58] <traeak> the "mid level" where the gpu sits is dangerous because it's sensitive....and you could put in a lot of work and end up with a slower implemnetation in the end
[19:59] <mkopack> especially given the memory interface bandwidth requirements
[19:59] <traeak> latency
[19:59] <mkopack> yup
[19:59] <traeak> and frankly i'm not sure if you can do multithreaded stuff on a cpu and "split up" the gpu as well
[20:00] <mkopack> With some cards/ data sets it can take more time to get the data into and out of the card than it takes to process it BY the card
[20:00] <traeak> ie: if i have 16 cpus each working on their own image, can i safely have all 16 dispatch tasks to the gpu and not screw up my scalability ?
[20:00] <mkopack> traek: Actually, yes you can. OpenCL lets' you consider all cores, CPU or GPU as a pool and route the code to whatever mix of cores you want/available
[20:01] <mkopack> Oh, I see what you're saying
[20:01] <mkopack> Um, you'd need to do some sort of thread pool control access to the GPU
[20:01] <mkopack> but it typically isn't done that way
[20:01] <traeak> and then
[20:02] <markus> do you know i way i can host my blog on my home server (ARM computer) and then use maybe a reverse proxy hosten on commercial VPS or something
[20:02] <traeak> there's the additional problem of chasing gpu generations and models of gpus
[20:02] <mkopack> It's more a case of you write your "kernel" code that runs on a computation core, and the OpenCL/CUDA code is run on those cores to process the data,
[20:02] <traeak> if you have moeny and resources its fine
[20:02] <traeak> if you jsut want to solve problems then gpus are a huge resource waster
[20:02] <markus> so it unburdens my small poor little computer at home, caches everything that can be cached
[20:02] <markus> maybe even can deliver pages if my connection at home isn't working?
[20:03] <mkopack> traeak: Not really. SOME problems benefit GREATLY from GPU computation. HUGE speedups??? but not all
[20:04] <traeak> mkopack: understood, but you lose generality
[20:04] <mkopack> right...
[20:04] <markus> ops sorry to disturb this theoreitcal conversation
[20:04] <traeak> mkopack: almost all our stuff is least squares based with full covariance propagation, etc
[20:04] <traeak> sry
[20:04] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-203-51-89-83.lns11.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:04] <markus> now back to tremulous
[20:04] <traeak> heh
[20:04] <traeak> ahh
[20:05] <traeak> wing commander
[20:05] <traeak> would be cool, but seems like they want a lot of ram to run that
[20:05] <hotwings> mkopack - that was my point earlier.. gpu's are not just better or faster in general. theyre certainly not a replacement for cpu's as some people think
[20:05] <mkopack> but if you write your code to make use of it, and your data is appropriate, some problems that fit that mold can benefit greatly. Not all though
[20:05] <mkopack> right. GPUs != general purpose CPU.
[20:05] <traeak> i consider gpus to be an "optimization" thing
[20:06] <traeak> just have to take into account the negatives they may bring
[20:06] <mkopack> You have to know how to use them and that takes extra work. And the algorithms required to use them effectively are a lot more complex
[20:06] <traeak> i learned my lesson in the 90's with specialized hardware
[20:06] <traeak> a screwed up driver release, etc and everything is toast
[20:06] <mkopack> they must support and benefit from high parallelization, small data chunks per thread, and data independence in the data set
[20:06] <mkopack> If they don't, GPU's gain you nothing
[20:06] <traeak> and everyone is screaming because their software broke due to some studpi update
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> mkopack: And low enough bandwidth outside the node that you can do it most with local cache
[20:07] <mkopack> Exactly
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes you can refactor linear algorithms to parallelisable ones.
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> But that ranges from hard to really hard.
[20:07] <mkopack> Each core on a GPU typically only has a VERY small memory cache local to it, with slower access to the VRAM and if it has to go off board over PCI-E to get to main RAM, forget it.
[20:08] <mkopack> SpeedEvil: Yup, and in some cases impossible
[20:08] <traeak> image processing stuff: possibly very good gpu speedup
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> As a simplest case - CFD - is really parallelisable. But only once you get to perhaps a cube of 100.
[20:08] <mkopack> sure, that's in the wheelhouse of GPUs
[20:08] <traeak> our stuff scales to 96+ cores
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> As otherwise the edge comms dominate
[20:08] <traeak> i have no clue how i would effectively bring in gpus to that
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> And if you can't fit a million elements into your GPU - problems.
[20:10] <mkopack> traeak: You use the GPU's cores instead of the CPU cores??? Get same/better performance by letting the GPU's do the image work, and use a single CPU core to manage the process
[20:10] * Iota (~contact@zooserv.eu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:10] <mkopack> Rather than needing 96 CPU cores
[20:10] <traeak> mkopack: the image processing is only a tiny part of the equation
[20:10] <traeak> no we need the 96 cpu cores
[20:10] * SpeedEvil is amused as he's partway through writing some FEA code in awk.
[20:10] <mkopack> well, not going to get into the specifics of your work. That's your business.
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> It's quite fast enough - as I'm only doing 2D, and 100*100 slices, and perhaps 10000 iterations.
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[20:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Iota
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> Which completes in a few mins
[20:11] <traeak> everything is full double precision, each ray has a unique orietation tied to a continuous time model
[20:11] <traeak> etc etc etc
[20:11] * mkopack kinda wishing he could use OpenCL for his Adv Gfx class next quarter??? Just as a reason to sit down and learn it???
[20:12] <mkopack> But the prof won't let us
[20:12] <traeak> all that stuff runs about 16x faster on a single core socket 1366 core i7 than on a brand new gpu
[20:12] <traeak> i mean single socket core i7 hehe
[20:12] <traeak> the cpu code running doble precision the gpu core runing single precision
[20:12] <traeak> fun fun
[20:12] <traeak> anyways
[20:13] <traeak> and we didn't do the gpu coding, someone else did, my partner just coded up the equivalent cpu based code in a couple of hours...
[20:16] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[20:39] <Mookman288> Wow those PSP screens are pretty damn cheap.
[20:39] <ReggieUK> psp screeens?
[20:39] <Mookman288> Sorry for the long URL: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040651GS/ref=s9_simh_gw_p63_d0_g63_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=15NWJNR6GCSD02AHNPDK&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
[20:39] <Mookman288> I think it was posted in the rPI subreddit.
[20:39] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:40] <Mookman288> Even cheaper with prime: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QNRGJE/ref=s9_simh_gw_p63_d0_g63_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0R3M0NSFSHGFE1M783RD&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
[20:40] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:40] * PiBot sets mode +v discomeats
[20:41] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:41] <WASDx> So the pictures on the frontpage are from the second shipment?
[20:41] * P4R4N01D1 is now known as P4R4N01D
[20:41] <WASDx> or the first?
[20:41] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@ Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[20:41] * PiBot sets mode +v P4R4N01D
[20:42] <traeak> Mookman288: tinyurl.com
[20:42] <Mookman288> traeak: I don't like short URLs as they've been abused.
[20:42] <traeak> hmm? advertising or something?
[20:43] <WASDx> I'd rather have long ULRs than not know where it leads
[20:43] <traeak> ahh
[20:43] <Mookman288> traeak: You can do multiple redirects into some sort of PHP eval exploit.
[20:43] <WASDx> but websites with such long URLs are just annoying and unneccesary
[20:43] <Mookman288> Maybe Amazon has a lot of taxonomy to do with GET variables.
[20:43] <sqrt[evil]> it's a tradeoff between length and human readability
[20:43] <sqrt[evil]> frankly i don't care how long urls are, it's more important taht i know what they are
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[20:44] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[20:44] <sqrt[evil]> amazon puts a ton of noncritical stuff in the URL, you can jsut use http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QNRGJE
[20:45] <WASDx> sqrt[evil]: Just as it should be :)
[20:45] <Mookman288> Well then, back to the $20 full spectrum LCD
[20:45] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:46] <sqrt[evil]> you can get (smaller, less nice) LCDs with touchscreens for around the same price
[20:46] <sqrt[evil]> that'll be fun too
[20:46] <traeak> wiring them up is a pita
[20:46] <piless> why is it rated teen?
[20:47] <Mookman288> sqrt[evil]: I'd rather have no touch and larger screen.
[20:47] * sqrt[evil] shrug
[20:47] <sqrt[evil]> depends what you want it for
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[20:47] * PiBot sets mode +v Da|Mummy
[20:47] <mkopack> WASDx: First shipment. First 2000 of the 10000 batch. Remaining 8000 are still being reworked for the ethernet jack issue and expected to arrive in UK in 2-3 weeks
[20:47] <mkopack> (well, now, 1.5-2.5 weeks)
[20:48] <WASDx> thanks
[20:48] <piless> don't believe him
[20:49] * DaMummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:49] <Mookman288> sqrt[evil]: Can't imagine a tiny touch screen is going to be very useful. Then again, I don't have a touch phone either.
[20:49] <piless> mkopack is a hooters addict, he's not a trustworthy source
[20:50] <piless> fuck touchscreens, you want proper knobs and levers to control it.
[20:50] <sqrt[evil]> lolol
[20:50] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:50] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[20:50] <Mookman288> sqrt[evil]: It would be nice if they had two-color or grayscale displays for even cheaper.
[20:50] <traeak> neural interface ... aka shock therapy
[20:50] <sqrt[evil]> not useful for a linux desktop, but could be useful for embedded applications
[20:50] <traeak> e-stink as a display would be awesome
[20:50] <sqrt[evil]> like a standalone media player or whatever
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[20:51] <WASDx> I could survive with it
[20:51] <WASDx> but i'm gonna use mine as a server
[20:51] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) Quit (Excess Flood)
[20:51] <traeak> pogoplug baby!
[20:51] <WASDx> maybe get xorg on it and try surfing around
[20:51] <mkopack> I wish I knew Linux better...
[20:51] <WASDx> mkopack: learn :)
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[20:51] * PiBot sets mode +v scorphus
[20:52] <Mookman288> I either want to do the briefcase computer, pipboy or intrusionbox
[20:52] <sqrt[evil]> lol pipboy nice
[20:52] <mkopack> I don't get how they were able to get the Debian build so small and still have it run decently, but the Ubuntu build I have for the Pandaboard is a F'ing PIG and SLOW
[20:52] <piless> don't bother with linux, it's on its way out
[20:52] <mkopack> even though it has way more ram and CPU to use
[20:52] <sqrt[evil]> mkopack: Ubuntu.
[20:52] <traeak> piless: hehe
[20:52] <Mookman288> Would be really nice to have a non-$500 portable security testing system.
[20:52] <mkopack> yeah, well, there's the other thing - I don't know enough to know how to roll my own minimal distro that will work with the drivers.
[20:52] <Mookman288> that runs on AA's lol
[20:53] <mkopack> Mook: Um??? SheevaPlug...
[20:53] <sqrt[evil]> for Panda? run Angstrom?
[20:53] <traeak> LFS or something
[20:53] <mkopack> There's actually software written for those
[20:53] <mkopack> Haven't tried the Angstrom yet
[20:53] <Mookman288> That's still what, $100 sqrt[evil]?
[20:53] <mkopack> since I'm using it for ROS, I wanted to stick to something that was on their supported list
[20:53] <sqrt[evil]> Mookman288: PandaBoard? closer to $160 iirc
[20:53] <mkopack> Mook: Sheevaplug is about $99
[20:53] <Mookman288> sqrt[evil]: Ah, still pricier than a pi.
[20:54] <sqrt[evil]> oh i thought Angstrom was the 'official' distro. it was when BeagleBoard first came out.
[20:54] <mkopack> http://pwnieexpress.com/
[20:54] <sqrt[evil]> Mookman288: way more powerful too ;)
[20:54] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:54] * PiBot sets mode +v Plankalkuel
[20:54] <sqrt[evil]> and way more available
[20:54] <mkopack> Mook: check that out
[20:54] <Mookman288> mkopack: I like the phone but not for $1000
[20:54] <sqrt[evil]> Mookman288: are you just after a portable linux box? why not a netbook?
[20:55] <Mookman288> sqrt[evil]: Already have a netbook.
[20:55] * khildin (~khildin@ip-83-134-230-253.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:55] <Mookman288> sqrt[evil]: A netbook isn't modular. I can't just swap out an SD card and it becomes an HTPC
[20:55] <piofcube> Be much better when those new fangled quantum GPUs come out LOL
[20:55] * khildin_ is now known as khildin
[20:55] <mkopack> Mookman288: I meant the plug??? The plug itself is $99, you load the software onto it. Boom you have the network security testing device you wanted
[20:55] <traeak> hmm...acer aspire one could do that :-p
[20:56] <mkopack> they have a free version of the software for people who already have the Sheevaplug??? It's missing a few things but has most of what you'd need
[20:56] <Mookman288> mkopack: But I only get -that- item; and I don't get the fun of working with a new toy.
[20:57] <mkopack> true??? I'm just saying!
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[20:58] <mkopack> "Mookman288: Would be really nice to have a non-$500 portable security testing system." - SheevaPlug = $99, software = free??? $99<$500, Problem solved :)
[20:58] <piofcube> Weird.. LOL.. my chat stopped scrolling :S
[20:58] <mkopack> dammi piofcube , you broke the internet!
[20:58] <Mookman288> mkopack: But that's just one facet of my three-goal rpi system.
[20:58] <piofcube> I leave for a couple of days and this is what happens LMAO
[20:58] <mkopack> (Holy F I'm bored here at work today...)
[20:58] <Mookman288> You've forgotten the suitcase and pipboy!
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[21:15] <hotwings> [11:54:17] <Mookman288> sqrt[evil]: A netbook isn't modular. I can't just swap out an SD card and it becomes an HTPC <-- why do you say that? i do exactly that with my asus netbook
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[21:16] <hotwings> one sdhc has my debian htpc install on it, another one has a desktop install
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[21:16] * Kostic (~Kostic@net32-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[21:16] <Mookman288> For an HTPC at least my netbook isn't capable in many ways. It's also not small enough that I can just remove the whole thing and transport it in my pocket.
[21:17] <Mookman288> What I plan to do with my rpi is only really useful if its a small system.
[21:17] <hotwings> ahh.. ive got an intel atom/nvidia ion netbook
[21:17] <Mookman288> Yeah I can barely get flash to run smooth at anything higher than 480.
[21:18] <Mookman288> But that's not really what I use the netbook for so
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[21:19] <hotwings> i hear ya. i bought mine pretty much for a small'ish media player when i go on trips.. watching movies on a 12.1" screen isnt too bad and its small enough that its easy to carry on my flights
[21:20] <traeak> 12.1" should be fine
[21:22] <hotwings> i usually just load it up with a few 720p movies, music, videos, etc.... makes the long flights pass by easier
[21:23] <mkopack> this is sad??? I had to remote desktop to my Mac pro at home, open up a terminal on there and ssh to the Pandaboard so I can work on ROS
[21:23] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:23] <mkopack> It looks like I installed the wrong package of ROS??? I didn't do the full one with everything
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[21:26] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:26] <hotwings> mkopack - why not ssh directly to your panda? ..making it available of course
[21:27] <mkopack> Yeah, well, I didn't make it accessable
[21:27] <mkopack> so couldn't go direct to it
[21:27] <sqrt[evil]> why not ssh to your pc? :P
[21:27] * bitfil (~bitfil@ has left #raspberrypi
[21:28] <mkopack> I'm on a mac so I just "Back to my Mac" from macbook to Mac pro...
[21:28] <sqrt[evil]> doesn't osx ship with the sshd enabled these days?
[21:29] <sqrt[evil]> or at least installed...
[21:30] <piless> it is unix after all
[21:31] <mkopack> It's installed, but you have to turn it on, and I don't
[21:31] * nrdb_newbie (~neil@CPE-58-168-114-42.lns9.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[21:32] <sqrt[evil]> ahh
[21:32] <mkopack> 99% of the time, if I want to get back to my mac pro, it's to run something GUI-based
[21:32] <mkopack> so backtomac / VNC is going to be my best option
[21:32] <sqrt[evil]> it's handy to have an sshd running somewhere, then you can tunnel to any service you want on your lan
[21:32] <hotwings> or just make the panda available :)
[21:33] <piless> can you WOL the panda?
[21:33] <mkopack> Well, I tend to try to limit what ports are open on my router??? I had an issue a while back when I had a Win2K "file server" machine that was accessible via port-forwarding??? Somebody figured out how to hack into it...
[21:33] <sqrt[evil]> IIRC PandaBoard also uses a USB ethernet
[21:34] <mkopack> I go to use it one day and the mouse was moving on the screen without me touching it!
[21:34] <sqrt[evil]> don't think any of those support WoL
[21:34] <piless> mkopack: my mouse does that sometimes too.. turns out it's just dusty
[21:34] <mkopack> I went to move it and it immediately lock screened. I yanked the ethernet right then and there, shut down the router and wiped all the drives
[21:34] <sqrt[evil]> yeah, that's why yuo just expose SSH and tunnel anything else you need ;)_
[21:35] <piless> So did you not have a nat on your router?
[21:35] <mkopack> I did
[21:35] <piless> damn russians
[21:35] <mkopack> This was years ago though so I don't remember all the specifics
[21:35] <sqrt[evil]> lol
[21:35] <mkopack> But form then on, I locked that crap down tight
[21:35] <sqrt[evil]> yeah, i trust ssh, don't trust much else especially desktop sharing stuff
[21:35] <piless> it was probably someone pranking you.
[21:35] <hotwings> it was the chinese
[21:35] <sqrt[evil]> vnc isn't traditionally encrypted either
[21:35] <mkopack> I don't open ANY ports on my router unless I absolutely have to
[21:36] <piless> It was always loads of fun to remotely open someones cd drive
[21:36] <traeak> ssh ... tunnel to your heart's content
[21:36] <sqrt[evil]> piless: lol, i used to print stuff
[21:36] <sqrt[evil]> you'd be shocked how many jetdirects were on public addresses back in the day
[21:36] <PReDiToR> NX is nicer than VNC
[21:36] <Dagger2> mkopack: ssh has a slightly better track record than Windows on the hackability front, at least
[21:36] <mkopack> Wehre as back to my mac is specifically mac to mac, no ports need to be opened, it's encrypted and requires 2 way auth between the machines.
[21:36] <mkopack> true
[21:36] <piless> you could also get the pc speaker to play lovely music which you couldn't shut off
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[21:37] * sqrt[evil] doesn't use macs and avoids them like the plague
[21:37] <mkopack> piless: hehe, I used to do that to people in the computer clusters when I was a cluster admin in college???
[21:38] <mkopack> They'd be sitting down at one of the Sun Workstations in my cluster??? I'd remote into the machine, and start making it do things on them.. :)
[21:38] <Dagger2> mkopack: whereas Windows File/Print Sharing has had some rediculous amount of vulnerabilities, and is never something I'd make internet accessable. my ISP actually blocks those ports, and I *agree* with them doing that
[21:38] <piless> macs suck at multi-tasking.. I can't believe you just leave your windows there unmaximized. Infact to maximise a window you have to hold shift or alt or something before pressing the green plus
[21:38] <sqrt[evil]> meh, i don' tuse maximized windows either
[21:38] <mkopack> piless: WTF are you talking about? geesh
[21:38] <sqrt[evil]> my beef is that windows don't appear on the task switcher
[21:38] <sqrt[evil]> it's a pain in the farking ass to switch windows
[21:39] <piless> sqrt[evil]: that's what the hidden little blue dot is for
[21:39] <mkopack> ?
[21:39] * jthunder (~jthunder@ Quit (Quit: jthunder)
[21:39] <sqrt[evil]> is that the one that lets me boot another OS?
[21:39] <mkopack> Apple tab, just like Alt-Tab to cycle between windows
[21:39] <mkopack> And the dot indicated which ones you already have open
[21:39] <sqrt[evil]> well yeah, but what if i have 3 or 4 pdfs open and need to refer between them,
[21:39] <sqrt[evil]> it's just a bitch
[21:40] <piless> there's a little blue dot under an active application on the dock, but they disabled it by default on the latest version
[21:40] <sqrt[evil]> but mostly i just refuse to give apple any of my money because they are far worse than MS ever was at the height of their anti-consumer business practices
[21:40] <sqrt[evil]> and their stuff is overpriced...
[21:41] <sqrt[evil]> piless: what does the dot do?
[21:41] <mkopack> The dot indicates that you have that app runnnig
[21:41] <mkopack> No dot means you can click to launch it
[21:41] <piless> win7 does it great, if I want two explorer windows side by side, I can just do win + 2 to launch my second icon on the super bar and then win + arrow keys to assign it to the left side.. or right side or maximised.
[21:41] * Martix (~martix@cst-prg-41-8.cust.vodafone.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:41] <sqrt[evil]> yeah...and?
[21:42] <mkopack> yeah and what?
[21:42] <mkopack> You asked what the dot was for
[21:42] <sqrt[evil]> that's all it does? he seemed to imply it would help handle multiple windows
[21:42] <mkopack> it's just an indicator of running or not
[21:43] <sqrt[evil]> piless: tbh not really a fan of the new windows taskbar either, it heads down the mac way of 'one element per app' rather than 'one element per winodow'
[21:43] <sqrt[evil]> i almost always want to switch between windows, not apps. with the exception of gimp.
[21:43] <piless> sqrt[evil]: yeah it doesn't do that.. there's no way to handle multiple windows.. that's why they leave them all tiny and overlapped.. if you minimise a window though it makes an icon on the right side
[21:43] <piless> sqrt[evil]: that's a tickbox away though
[21:43] <sqrt[evil]> yup
[21:43] <sqrt[evil]> exactly
[21:44] <piless> but win7 does a much better job than osx
[21:44] <sqrt[evil]> yeah i agree, at least you can pull up a list of windows and pick the one you want
[21:44] <sqrt[evil]> ubuntu unity does it even worse than osx though
[21:45] <sqrt[evil]> they've screwed with alt-tab behaviour so it switches between apps now too
[21:45] <piless> although with ie9 or whatever it treated each tab as a window.. that was fucking stupid
[21:45] <blemmm> microsoft did something stupid? Werid.
[21:45] <sqrt[evil]> and i'm not sure if osx does this, but switching to an app brings all its windows forward
[21:45] <blemmm> weird*
[21:45] <piless> ubuntu unity is such an obvious clone though.
[21:45] <traeak> never seen it
[21:46] <traeak> i tendto avoid debian based distros
[21:46] <sqrt[evil]> eh? of what? it doesn't really work that similarly to anything i can think of.
[21:46] <piless> gnome was supposed to be osxish in style.. and kde for the windows style
[21:46] <traeak> windowmaker ftw (hehe)
[21:47] * Elfish is now known as elfish
[21:47] <sqrt[evil]> lol
[21:47] <sqrt[evil]> i think i need to try xmonad
[21:47] <blemmm> +1
[21:47] * elfish is now known as Elfish
[21:52] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:52] * PiBot sets mode +v phantoxe
[21:54] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[21:56] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[21:56] * PReDiToR (~PReDiToR@unaffiliated/preditor) Quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference)
[21:57] <piless> hmm this channel is going to have to change it's name, http://www.raspberrypi.org/trademark-rules
[21:59] <passstab> ##raspberrypi is probably good
[21:59] * PaulFertser (paul@paulfertser.info) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:59] <Matt> well that's a freenode policy question, rather than a trademark issue
[22:00] <passstab> hmm?
[22:01] <urs> I see no rule there that would forbid the current naming of this channel.
[22:01] <traeak> just change the channel to #raspberrypi(tm)
[22:02] <urs> We just might need to put "Raspberry Pi is a trademark of the Raspberry Pi Foundation" into the topic
[22:02] <Matt> I don't think parenthesis are permitted in channel names
[22:02] <passstab> or change the message on channel joining
[22:02] <Matt> quite
[22:02] <urs> Or just don't, and wait until anybody complains.
[22:03] <piless> eben will set liz on you
[22:03] <piofcube> I think they need to re-write those T&Cs
[22:04] * PaulFertser (paul@paulfertser.info) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:04] * PiBot sets mode +v PaulFertser
[22:04] <piless> f. is a bit weird..
[22:05] <piofcube> a. The Raspberry Pi word mark is not part of the product name, company name or website URL.: That means you can't have a dedicated page like somesite.com/rapberrypi or even a forum like myblog.com/forum?rasberrypi
[22:05] <piless> does that mean you can't write a critical review?
[22:05] <piless> and it's not like they made a word for their brand.. it's just two existing words..
[22:05] <Gadget-Mac> Actually dosn't it mean you can't have somesite.com/Raspberry%20Pi ?
[22:07] <piofcube> but most of those rules are not applicable under fair use laws anyway
[22:07] <piless> and you're not allowed to make mugs?! That would be okay if they actually already sold the mugs at a reasonable price but they don't have any fucking merchandise.
[22:07] <passstab> that is a good rule
[22:08] <passstab> i would hope all merch benefits rpif
[22:08] * netcarver (~netcarver@ has left #raspberrypi
[22:08] <piofcube> I might want to make a coffee cup power sterling engine to power my R-Pi
[22:08] <piless> Hey wait a sec.. farnell have been giving away rpi shirts
[22:09] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:09] * PiBot sets mode +v esotera
[22:09] <passstab> link?
[22:10] <piless> passstab: http://piregistration.element14.com/images/email/tshirts.jpg
[22:10] <passstab> looooollll
[22:11] <piless> ?
[22:11] <piless> are you okay?
[22:11] <passstab> rpif probably signed a agreement unwittingly
[22:11] <piless> well the colours wrong
[22:12] <passstab> is still the logo
[22:12] <sqrt[evil]> Raspberry Pi is an adjective, not a noun.
[22:12] <sqrt[evil]> lol what
[22:12] <piless> all this blatent trademark stuff is a bit worrying.. plenty of other companies protect their trademarks without shoving it your face..
[22:12] <piless> *it in
[22:12] <piofcube> I thought Raspberry Pi was two words anyway
[22:12] <piless> raspberry is a fruit, and pi = 3.14....
[22:13] <sqrt[evil]> piless: well it's good for them to be clear about it, but i agree, i don't know why there's so much discussion about this right now
[22:13] <sqrt[evil]> i agree f. is weird
[22:13] <piless> And the bit about a charitable donation..
[22:13] <piofcube> I guess all those "Works with Mac" are wrong... It should be "Works with a Mac computer" :-S
[22:14] <piless> So is 0.0001 pence okay?
[22:14] <sqrt[evil]> piless: meh they're just asking
[22:14] <sqrt[evil]> piofcube: should be. apple's branding is so f'ing annoying.
[22:14] <piless> sqrt[evil]: Yeah but it's not very clear, either set up a clear royality system or don't
[22:15] <mkopack> Well, it's the fact that if an organization owns a ??? and they don't protect it, it becomes null and void
[22:15] <mkopack> So they HAVE to take at least the basic steps and set up the rules.
[22:15] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:15] <sqrt[evil]> piless: i would say 'don't' heh
[22:16] <sqrt[evil]> i wish this project were a lot more open, it doesn't seem to be something they give two shits about
[22:16] <piless> mkopack: Yeah, the rules can be there, but not linked on the frontpage and the TM symbol doesn't have to be in the logo.. to count as protection all they really have to do is send out cease & desist emails every often
[22:16] <piofcube> Okay, well... now I'll have to sort this out with the RPF otherwise we can't develop any stuff with it.
[22:16] <sqrt[evil]> which is fine and their prerogative
[22:17] <sqrt[evil]> piofcube: do the rules conflict with your planned usage?
[22:17] <esotera> how are they not open?
[22:17] <piless> well it doesn't really mesh with the whole free and open-source movement does it?
[22:17] <piofcube> a. The Raspberry Pi word mark is not part of the product name, company name or website URL. That's to start with... we have a few URLs that have the R-pi name in it
[22:17] <passstab> i think they did it because there is so much enthusiasm
[22:17] <sqrt[evil]> esotera: they haven't even released schematics
[22:18] <piless> esotera: Were you around when they launched? They went awol
[22:18] <mkopack> they were just trying to clarify the rules as the question had been coming up a lot - "Can I use the logo here? Can I put this logo on my case design?" etc.
[22:18] * convolution (convolutio@i.love.tiltshellz.org) has left #raspberrypi
[22:18] <mkopack> this way it's clear, it's posted for all to see, and they don't have to answer the questions 1000 times over
[22:18] <Gadget-Mac> They are looking at the noun side of it http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/945#comment-18419
[22:18] <esotera> I thought they'd released the general schematics of the board?
[22:19] <esotera> and couldn't release chip designs because of NDAs
[22:19] <piofcube> that's all well and good but the T&Cs are badly written
[22:19] <piless> mkopack: These rules look like they were written by liz though.. they need to get a proper lawyer in
[22:19] <sqrt[evil]> esotera: no. there's some information abuot what's on it, and a partial schematic of the power section but that's about it
[22:19] <esotera> oh, ok
[22:19] <mkopack> I'm sure they consulted a lawyer and that set was the "laymen speak" version that would be easy for folks to understand
[22:19] <piless> has the trademark been actually given to them? Or is it still pending?
[22:19] <esotera> i suppose at least it's better than most computers used in education today.
[22:19] <sqrt[evil]> and if they do release them, i'm going to bet they have a bunch of legalese attached that makes them not 'open hardware'
[22:19] <piofcube> "You may use Raspberry Pi trademarks and logo provided:" Means they are saying you can not use the name "Raspberry Pi" or their logo
[22:19] <piless> mkopack: You sure about that?
[22:20] <mkopack> sure? No??? But I'd be surprised if they didn't
[22:20] <piless> No lawyer would have given the go ahead for that
[22:20] <mkopack> why all the fuss anyhow? I didn't see anything there that seemed unreasonable...
[22:20] <sqrt[evil]> imo f. is ridiculous
[22:20] <piless> they don't even refer you to the proper legalese of it.
[22:21] <sqrt[evil]> the rest is not well written but typical
[22:21] <mkopack> f is pretty standard from what I've seen
[22:21] <piless> maybe in a couple months time they'll turn around and decide they want to be a "for-profit? :P
[22:21] <piofcube> mkopack: You can't even have a URL with the name it in... Domain name I could agree with up to a point but a URL?? come-on
[22:22] <Gadget-Mac> piless: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2597756
[22:22] <piless> and what about variations of the name.
[22:22] <sqrt[evil]> mkopack: maybe for a commercial organization, but a charity? really?
[22:22] <Gadget-Mac> http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-adp?propnum=0942212001
[22:22] <mkopack> Oh here we go...
[22:22] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@13-163-55.client.wireless.msu.edu) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[22:22] <piless> Gadget-Mac: that's the old colour though
[22:23] <mkopack> they are a NON-PROFIT but that doesn't mean it's not a BUSINESS, that it doesn't have liability concerns and things to protect...
[22:23] <sqrt[evil]> so they try to use a legal bludgeon to silence negative speech?
[22:23] <mkopack> The only diff is that they take any income they get above operating costs and either reinvest them, or give them away
[22:24] <piless> If I write on my blog, "the raspberry pi is so shit, it can't even run windows" will they send me a cease and desist?
[22:24] <sqrt[evil]> they'd have no legal grounds to do so, it's referential
[22:24] <piofcube> If they stipulated "You may use the Raspberry Pi logo and trademarks for commercial use provided that:" it would be understandable
[22:24] <piless> so it's obvious it wasn't written by a lawyer
[22:25] <Gadget-Mac> piless: Possibly
[22:25] <Gadget-Mac> "I???ll ask Jack to swing by and have a look at that (this is his area, not mine, the poor thing). Thanks for pointing it out; must say, I agree with you, and it???d be interesting to find out what the lawyers??? rationale was."
[22:25] <sqrt[evil]> arduino chose to just give a paragraph description and some examples
[22:25] <piless> Meh.. there's waaaaaay too much fumbling on the foundations part.. you would have thought by now that through the organisations they've been working with would have given them some pointers
[22:25] <sqrt[evil]> seems to have worked for them
[22:26] <sqrt[evil]> piless: after the launch, i won't be surprised at any clumsiness from them :P
[22:27] <piless> sqrt[evil]: I'm still shocked at how stupid it was of liz to go awol through the whole thing.
[22:27] <piless> It was the best time for them..
[22:27] <piless> And they just chucked it away.
[22:27] <sqrt[evil]> she didn't go awol! she kept tweeting links to the beeb!
[22:27] <piless> sqrt[evil]: No, she abandoned the twitter for about 3 days or so
[22:27] <piless> the bit where they "went to the pub" and never came back
[22:27] <sqrt[evil]> oh afterwards? while people were shitting bricks that morning she was just tweeting links to interviews and stuff
[22:28] <mkopack> I think he means when they were on the ski trip, she hurt her knee and Eben took her to a Cabin with zero connectivity to recoup.
[22:28] <piless> What happened to them redoing the forum?
[22:29] <piless> mkopack: noooo, this was waaay before
[22:29] <mkopack> oh
[22:29] <piless> mkopack: this was the day after the launch
[22:29] <mkopack> ah
[22:29] <piless> mkopack: when everyone was upset and liz disappeared, "because of the trolls"
[22:29] <piless> paraphrasing of course
[22:30] <esotera> does anyone else have a really bad loadtime on their FAQ page?
[22:31] <piless> esotera: it's the comments
[22:31] <piless> who sticks comments on an faq page anyway?
[22:31] <esotera> i thought it would be
[22:31] <mkopack> yeah, the 1000+ comments make it take forever??? DUMB
[22:31] <esotera> it's a bit faster on chromium but it crashes firefox everytime
[22:31] <piless> faq / help pages are supposed to be static
[22:32] <piless> chromium is for saps, just use chrome
[22:32] <sqrt[evil]> 2,319 comments
[22:32] <Matt> I read that as 2,319 commits
[22:32] <sqrt[evil]> you've been coding for too long today matt
[22:33] <piless> they really need to start their own wiki aswell, better sooner than later. I don't get why they just use elinux's
[22:33] <Matt> oddly enough, I've not been doing much coding today :)
[22:33] <Matt> closest I've come to code is building dovecot from source
[22:33] <mkopack> piless: That's actually pretty common. the Pandaboard uses the elinux ones as well
[22:33] <sqrt[evil]> piless: why not? their infrastructure was already struggling with the forum
[22:34] <piless> mkopack: Yeah.. but in 6 months.. it's going to be huge.. so much documentation.. it should really get it's own space
[22:34] <mkopack> We'll see
[22:35] <piless> well they're hopefully going to get bulk orders from the uk government right?
[22:35] <Matt> piless: pff
[22:35] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:35] <Matt> you trust the gvt to do anything sensible?
[22:35] <piless> I said hopefully
[22:35] <Matt> especially with regards to spending money?
[22:36] <piless> cheaper than buying macs
[22:36] <Matt> although this one is better than the last
[22:36] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:36] * PiBot sets mode +v esotera
[22:36] <Matt> it's the displays that're going to be the expensive part with the pi
[22:36] <piless> just use existing
[22:36] <Matt> how many schools have labs full of existing displays?
[22:36] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:37] <piless> plenty
[22:37] <Matt> something that can talk hdmi at least
[22:37] <piless> everyones got an old crt... such a shame it didn't come with vga
[22:37] <Matt> last time I was in an IT lab, it was all CRT
[22:37] <piless> well yeah.. fuck hdmi
[22:37] * SpeedEvil quacks.
[22:37] <sqrt[evil]> the electricity to run all those CRTs for a few years must cost more than just replacing them...
[22:37] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:37] * PiBot sets mode +v esotera
[22:37] <piless> crts do give decent blacks though
[22:38] <Matt> ah, but now you're talking operating expenses vs capital expenditure
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> School system doesn't care about black piless.
[22:38] <piless> it's too late for that matt
[22:38] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:38] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[22:38] <sqrt[evil]> anyway i haven't been in a school in a while but even most of my very cheap clients are using lcds now
[22:38] * Matt nods
[22:38] <sqrt[evil]> i think the last one switched a couple weeks ago
[22:38] <Matt> I wasn't saying it was a bad choice
[22:39] <piless> it's all dell optiplex's which they paid three times their value for
[22:39] <sqrt[evil]> meh, is it worth an extra few bucks a device?
[22:39] <Matt> just that purchasing displays is going to be the large cost, compared to the pis
[22:39] <sqrt[evil]> imo vga isn't that important.
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> VGA is rapidly going away.
[22:39] <sqrt[evil]> that said i find it ridiculous that some new monitors (cheap cheap cheap ones) still only have vga
[22:39] <sqrt[evil]> i don't get this. how is it cheaper than dvi?
[22:39] <piless> it's more imporant than hdmi for such a low powered device
[22:39] <sqrt[evil]> there's a bunch of extra ADC stuff
[22:39] * SpeedEvil has just had an upgrade fail.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> I got a nice 30" 'new' - well - ebay - monitor.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> 1600x2560
[22:40] <piless> SpeedEvil: what brand?
[22:40] <piless> dell make some really decent monitors
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, due to lack of research, the 'new' - well - old - laptop I also got - will only drive it at quarter res.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> LG
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> LG W2000G
[22:40] <piless> WHAT
[22:40] <piless> no native res?!
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> No.
[22:41] <sqrt[evil]> ick
[22:41] <piless> How can you live with that man?
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> piless: I need to work out what I need to upgrade - I'm trying to make a low-power system, I was hoping to use a laptop that could do dual-link.
[22:41] <piless> It always drives me insane when I see people not using the monitors native res.. If you want a bigger start button then increase the fucking dpi
[22:41] <sqrt[evil]> piless: i know.
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> piless: But the one I picked can't manage that resolution, so I need to work out exactly what upgrade I need.
[22:42] <sqrt[evil]> it's even worse when they use the wrong aspect ratio too
[22:42] <piless> you can get external graphics cards for laptops nowadays
[22:42] <Matt> piless: yes
[22:42] <sqrt[evil]> SpeedEvil: you will need a new laptop :\
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> piless: It's amusing. I'm upgrading from a 4:3 1400x1050 display - new one is essentially the same height as the old height, but about three times taller :)
[22:43] <mjr> are there any laptops that do dual link dvi? I'd think it'd have to be dp or hdmi...
[22:43] <sqrt[evil]> i just had to rma my dell 21" montior. they sent me back a 16:9 one
[22:43] <sqrt[evil]> not really impressed
[22:43] <piless> you mean three times wider.. it being 16:10 or 16:9?
[22:43] <sqrt[evil]> this trend to ever wider ARs pisses me off
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> sqrt[evil]: Probably, in the absence of hacks .
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> sqrt[evil]: Indeed.
[22:43] <piless> my laptop has vga out
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> sqrt[evil]: I went for the above 2560x1600 - simply as it was the only 1600 pixel high soltuion.
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> 1600x1600 would actually fit my use-case better
[22:44] <sqrt[evil]> it kind of makes me sad that with my 19" CRT i used to use 1600x1200
[22:44] <piless> I like 16:9 on my laptop
[22:44] <sqrt[evil]> and my current monitor is *still* less area
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> I want 140dpi on laptops.
[22:44] <sqrt[evil]> and larger
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> It's retarded.
[22:44] <piless> you're eyes are more suited to widescreen displays
[22:45] <sqrt[evil]> i like 16:10
[22:45] <piless> *your
[22:45] <sqrt[evil]> 16:9 is a bit far
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> You can still get high res 4:3 displays.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> But they are ridiculously expensive.
[22:45] <piless> I used to have a 16:9 touchscreen nokia :D
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Aimed at medical people.
[22:45] <sqrt[evil]> i used to work in medical imaging
[22:46] <sqrt[evil]> mostly they use 10-bit grayscale monitors
[22:46] <sqrt[evil]> which are ridonculously expensive
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebuyer.com/138221-nec-multisync-lcd2090uxi-lcd-tft-20-1-dvi-d-monitor-60001658
[22:46] <piless> what if you bought two 16:9 monitors with the smallest bezel possible and stacked them ontop of each other.. that would make it more squarish
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> piless: The seam is very, very obvious
[22:46] <sqrt[evil]> probably make more sense to stack them sdie by side
[22:47] <piless> Bezels are getting smaller every year though
[22:47] <Matt> it is very obvious, yes
[22:47] <sqrt[evil]> a 1px bezel would be obvious...
[22:47] <Matt> but you can use them as two discrete displays quite happily
[22:47] <piless> sqrt[evil]: depends how big the pixel is :P
[22:47] <Matt> I've got a pair of 17" LCDs on my windows box
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> widescreen displays are unfortunately too narrow to do portrait ideally.
[22:47] <sqrt[evil]> yeah i've thought about doing 2 monitors in portrait
[22:47] <sqrt[evil]> right now i do 2 in landscape
[22:47] <sqrt[evil]> but neither is very ideal
[22:48] <Matt> I had one client who had 6 displays
[22:48] <Matt> in 3x2 config
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> My ideal display would be something like 140dpi@21" 4:3
[22:48] <piless> sqrt[evil]: you got to be careful though, because some pixel layouts are meant to only be used horizonally and you get artifacts otherwise
[22:48] <mkopack> hehe, my setup at home is a 24" Dell with a 20" Dell on either side ")
[22:48] <mkopack> 3 screens for the win
[22:48] <sqrt[evil]> yeah, viewing angles can be a problem too
[22:48] * Mavy is now known as Mavy-bnc
[22:48] <sqrt[evil]> i have IPS monitors though so it'd probably work ok
[22:48] <piless> sqrt[evil]: Some monitors are designed to swivel though.
[22:48] <sqrt[evil]> but one of them isnt' rotatable and now the resolutions don't match because they sent me this 16:9 replacement
[22:49] <mkopack> having 3 is GREAT for coding???.
[22:49] <piless> they don't have a 16:10 equivalent?
[22:49] <sqrt[evil]> i could have got a 16:10 TN panel or 16:9 IPS panel
[22:49] <mkopack> Code up in the center one, mail, IM, etc in one of the sides, documentation up on the other side
[22:49] <piless> mkopack: One for your ide, one for your manpages, one for your browser
[22:49] <sqrt[evil]> took the IPS, it's also 1080p so slightly higher res than the old one
[22:49] <sqrt[evil]> but it doesn't match the partner monitor
[22:50] <sqrt[evil]> dell at least doesn't sell any 16:10 IPS monitors anymore
[22:50] <sqrt[evil]> i'm not sure if they're avaialable from someone else
[22:50] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-93-138.as43234.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:50] * PiBot sets mode +v freddow
[22:50] <piless> wow I didn't realise that 16:9 was that prevalent.
[22:50] <mkopack> piles: Exactly
[22:50] <piless> sqrt[evil]: 2nd hand?
[22:50] <mkopack> It's AWESOME
[22:51] <sqrt[evil]> meh, i'm not that bothered by it
[22:51] <sqrt[evil]> i've been thinking about a setup like mkopack's
[22:51] <piless> you could always break the other one and get them to send you another 16:9
[22:51] <sqrt[evil]> its a bit older and the warranty is out already :\
[22:51] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-36-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:51] <sqrt[evil]> the other one failed just a month before it ran out
[22:52] <mkopack> It's gotten easier now with the new cards from AMD supporting up to 6 monitors. Alas, none of the MacPro hackable ones do that??? So I use 2 cards - 1 to drive the 24", and then an old low power one to drive the side displays.
[22:52] <sqrt[evil]> weird failure i've never seen before too
[22:52] <sqrt[evil]> lol macs.
[22:52] <mkopack> So when I'm gaming, I keep it on the center display driven by the powerful card
[22:52] <sqrt[evil]> pay $3000 for a dual monitor machine
[22:52] <sqrt[evil]> yay!
[22:52] <piless> a vertical 16:9 display would work well for programming I think.
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[22:52] * PiBot sets mode +v Fuzzy_
[22:52] <piless> more lines at once
[22:52] <sqrt[evil]> most IDEs use quite a lot of horizontal space, at least in default setup
[22:53] <piless> sqrt[evil]: aren't you limited depending on the language how much horizontal space it takes up though..
[22:53] <sqrt[evil]> hmm? i just mean you often have panels on the left and right of the editor to do other stuff
[22:53] <piless> Like I was messing around in c and the required lines were very short or something iirc
[22:54] <sqrt[evil]> i'm not aware of any language that has a strict line length nowadays
[22:54] <sqrt[evil]> C doesn't care about whitespace
[22:54] <sqrt[evil]> but most coding standards will have one, the linux kernel is all 80 columns i think
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[22:54] * PiBot sets mode +v Fuzzy-
[22:55] <mkopack> Right??? some people still tend to be nazi's about "don't exceed 80 characters" so they don't have to scroll around, but I never follow that. I'd rather have 1 command on a line than broken up over 20??? Unless it's something like a method call with 10 parameters or something like that where it's easy to break it up...
[22:55] <sqrt[evil]> so yeah it'd be great for editing code, maybe not so much if you're working in an IDE. but decent IDEs can be customized, so you could probably move those tools down
[22:55] <mkopack> complex IF statements are for to break up as well
[22:55] <piless> That's what I meant, editing code
[22:55] <sqrt[evil]> well usually if your lines start getting that long it means you're nested too deeply and shouuld refactor anyway
[22:56] <piless> mkopack: if if if if if if if else
[22:56] <sqrt[evil]> but 80 columns is ridiculous, anyone is going to be using a monitor that can show like 120 column at least these days
[22:56] <piless> that's why you turn it vertically
[22:56] <piless> and you get more rows at once
[22:56] <mkopack> yes and no, sometimes you have a pretty complex IF clause - If ((this and this, but not that) OR (this not that and that) OR NOT(this this or that)) etc.
[22:57] <piless> maximising efficiency
[22:57] * Fuzzy_ (~Fuzzy@cpc3-staf8-2-0-cust106.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:57] <mkopack> And I don't like breaking up output strings on multiple lines??? like:
[22:58] <piless> http://codedoc.zocdoc.com/wp-content/uploads/Monitors-XWing.jpg
[22:58] <mkopack> System.out.pritln("some big long string text that I don't really want to break up across multiple lines because frankly it's not going to be printed that way and this IS just a single satement after all???")
[22:58] <sqrt[evil]> as long as nothing important is way off to the right i don't care
[22:58] <sqrt[evil]> if it's a semicolon over there after a long string then whatever
[22:59] * Fuzzy- (~Fuzzy@cpc3-staf8-2-0-cust106.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:59] <piless> mkopack: you're going to end up getting shot if you don't stick to the rules man
[22:59] <sqrt[evil]> but i'd rather not have to scroll to see an entire if clause
[22:59] <sqrt[evil]> 80 cols is too short though
[22:59] <mkopack> hehe
[23:00] * freddow (~fred@host-92-7-93-138.as43234.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:03] <mkopack> Ok, off to get dinner and see "The Hunger Games"??? Later gang!
[23:03] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-133-33-217.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[23:03] * Lewmar (~Lewmar@gateway/tor-sasl/lewmar) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:09] <piless> I think I've overdosed on 30 rock
[23:11] * Fuzzy_ (~Fuzzy@cpc3-staf8-2-0-cust106.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[23:22] <DanielAndrade> Hey
[23:24] <DanielAndrade> if I buy now, any idea how long would it take to get to italy?
[23:24] * cypher708 (cypher707@89-181-201-41.net.novis.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:24] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
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[23:26] <piless> yes
[23:26] <piless> DanielAndrade: At least a really long time
[23:26] <piless> DanielAndrade: There's a maaaaassive backlog
[23:27] * Maccer (~Maccer@ Quit (Excess Flood)
[23:27] <piless> I'd say never is a pretty safe bet, but other than that 3-5 years is also feasible.
[23:27] <DanielAndrade> wtf, 3-5 years??
[23:28] <DanielAndrade> im livin in italy for 4 months, if i order now, i wouldnt get it then
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> naah.
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> 35 years.
[23:28] <piless> trust me I work for the foundation
[23:28] <piless> this is an official irc channel by the wat
[23:28] <blemmm> Trust me, I'm from the internet
[23:28] <piless> *way
[23:28] <DanielAndrade> thats why im here
[23:28] <DanielAndrade> :D
[23:29] <piless> Just ignore the topic, it lies
[23:29] <DanielAndrade> damn irssi
[23:29] <DanielAndrade> it sux to read topic
[23:29] <DanielAndrade> uhauh
[23:29] <Matt> lol
[23:29] <piless> Where is IT_Sean today? Usually he threatens to kick me by now.
[23:29] <Matt> irssi makes reading the topic really easy
[23:29] <Matt> just type /topic
[23:29] <Matt> :)
[23:30] <Matt> piless: watch it or I'll go find christel :)
[23:30] <DanielAndrade> yep
[23:30] <DanielAndrade> just did
[23:30] <DanielAndrade> :D
[23:30] <piless> who?
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[23:30] * PiBot sets mode +v Maccer
[23:31] <Matt> piless: she's basically in charge of the network
[23:31] <Matt> or at least, she was when I was on staff
[23:31] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-wmthyykvujhwrbaq) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
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[23:33] <Matt> anyway - time for me to be heading out I think
[23:33] <Matt> catcha later folks
[23:33] <piless> bye random person
[23:33] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-223-213.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
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These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.