#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-04-20

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <SpeedEvil> BenO cperrin88: you will almost certainly find that -J 2 or 3 is faster than single-threaded
[0:01] <cperrin88> I will try ... I have a 4 core HT machine ... maybe -j 4 ?
[0:02] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:02] * Compy (~Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] <xlq> I run -j8 on a dual-core K8 :D
[0:03] <SpeedEvil> cperrin88: I mean on the Pi
[0:03] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[0:04] * zgreg (greg@78.47.72.107) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:04] * zgreg (greg@78.47.72.107) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:04] <cperrin88> SpeedEvil: I just crosscompile on my PC and throw it on the SD card
[0:04] * Ult_Ubuntu is now known as IT_Sean
[0:04] <SpeedEvil> ah
[0:04] <SpeedEvil> Fair enough
[0:05] <cperrin88> the only thing that is in question is how I turn on the NFS support
[0:06] * IT_Sean wants a raspi, now that other people have them
[0:07] <cperrin88> IT_Sean: I won't give you mine :D
[0:08] <IT_Sean> :(
[0:11] * Meatballs is now known as Meatballs|Away
[0:12] * felgru_ (~felgru@xdsl-87-78-120-176.netcologne.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:12] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc35-belf9-2-0-cust731.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:12] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[0:13] * xlq (~apropos@89-168-181-84.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Quit: // FIXME)
[0:13] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:17] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[0:20] * cerberos (~cerberos@host86-158-115-14.range86-158.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: cerberos)
[0:23] <smw> has the raspberrypi been shipped yet?
[0:26] <IT_Sean> Yes.
[0:26] <IT_Sean> It has.
[0:26] <IT_Sean> Some people even have them.
[0:26] <smw> IT_Sean, yeah, just saw the blog
[0:27] <IT_Sean> why? you still waiting for yours?
[0:27] <smw> nah, now I am willing to order one :-P
[0:27] * IT_Sean rolls his eyes
[0:27] <IT_Sean> If you order now, you should get it by the year 2031
[0:27] <smw> lol
[0:27] <dipstick> !!!!
[0:27] * IT_Sean wasn't joking.
[0:27] <dipstick> july as the soon-est
[0:28] <smw> how long before ordering it means a week until you have one? lol
[0:29] <IT_Sean> The year 2031
[0:29] <IT_Sean> The waitlist is several hundred thousand people long.
[0:29] <dipstick> loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time
[0:30] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:31] <Hydrazine> 350.000 iirc
[0:31] <dipstick> lucky me, I ordered within a few days of release. :D
[0:31] * IT_Sean hasn't ordered yet. :/
[0:31] <smw> well, e14 claims they will have it done by june or july
[0:32] <dipstick> I've already waited a month and half for all the compliance shit, I can handle another month or two.
[0:33] <smw> I mean that current orders will be done in june
[0:33] <smw> hopefully at that point it will take one more production run to get surplus
[0:34] <smw> (ie stock)
[0:34] <dipstick> amazing how one tiny little linux computer can be so frakkin popular.
[0:34] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] <IT_Sean> And 18% of those buyers have no idea what it can / cannot do, and will be horribly disapointed.
[0:34] * IT_Sean sighs
[0:34] <smw> dipstick, although it is out of my pricerange. I want http://www.wikispeed.com/ to become popular
[0:35] <IT_Sean> That is **ck ugly
[0:35] * Syliss (~Syliss@108.210.165.132) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:35] <smw> IT_Sean, who cares?
[0:36] <IT_Sean> I do.
[0:36] <IT_Sean> Life is too short to drive a shit car.
[0:36] <dipstick> heh, mine has more colors :P
[0:36] <cperrin88> Somebody an Idea wich option I have to set to compile the kernel with NFS server support?
[0:36] <smw> IT_Sean, they have better bodies ;-)
[0:37] <smw> IT_Sean, and a $25,000 car with 100MPG seems to me like a prank...
[0:37] <smw> but it is in popular mechanics and stuff...
[0:37] <dipstick> the next gen won't need such a limited power source.
[0:37] <smw> apparently they are selling the prototypes. Only 9 left
[0:38] * IT_Sean will stick with his mildly inefficient, but fun as hell, 80s brick rocket.
[0:38] <smw> dipstick, what power source is not limited?
[0:38] <smw> dipstick, so will they instead run on coal?
[0:38] <smw> (burned at the power plant)
[0:39] * dipstick will stick to his 90's model truck
[0:39] <smw> lol
[0:39] <dipstick> smw: solar, geothermal, wind
[0:39] <smw> dipstick, do you know if those have actually been successful yet?
[0:39] <smw> lol
[0:39] <dipstick> someone needs to invent a lava power generator.
[0:40] <smw> you would need to drill deep
[0:40] <dipstick> nah, just find a volcano
[0:40] <smw> why not build more nuclear plants
[0:41] <smw> dipstick, truthfully, I just don't think we have the technology to replace oil. Or that we will have it anytime in the near future
[0:42] * wcchandler is late to the punch bowl
[0:42] <wcchandler> nice schematics up
[0:42] <wcchandler> might be useful for somebody :)
[0:44] * SpeedEvil wants a parts kit.
[0:44] <dipstick> ooooh
[0:44] <SpeedEvil> (just the bcm* and the POP)
[0:45] * drewh (459eab10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.158.171.16) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] <dipstick> ooh, there's a 2.5v rail?
[0:45] <IT_Sean> No parts kits. sorry.
[0:45] <jamesglanville> BenO: http://i.imgur.com/MWJf8.jpg http://i.imgur.com/r9lls.jpg :D
[0:48] <jamesglanville> oops http://i.imgur.com/r9IlS.jpg is the second one
[0:48] <Hydrazine> nice
[0:49] <dipstick> lots of little caps in the design
[0:49] <BenO> jamesglanville, Nicely done :)
[0:49] <BenO> Is that the translucent PLA? looks quite sparkly with the flash :)
[0:50] <jamesglanville> yeah, it's arctic blue from faberdashery
[0:51] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:52] <drewh> have you guys seen what this dude is doing? http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/projects-and-collaboration-general/debian-hard-float-armhf-for-rpi/page-10
[0:53] <BenO> Nice - I've only got some blue and black abs at home
[0:53] <drewh> insane, he's basically doing the whole hardfloat distro himself
[0:53] <drewh> between that and hexxeh's USB boot i bet we'll increase the performance of pi for 2x-3x at least
[0:54] <BenO> drewh, I think just booting from USB boosted speed by that much, IIRC! :)
[0:54] <drewh> haha yes true!
[0:54] <drewh> and then anything floating point will benefit from real FPU
[0:55] <drewh> by the time i get a pi it'll actually be able to do the things i want :)
[0:55] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:56] <BenO> Doing a whole debian distro build though - that's super cool and super mental ;)
[0:57] * wry (~wry@c-71-205-142-149.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:58] <drewh> haha i know, dude bought his own build cluster
[0:58] <drewh> once he gets a repo online i'm gonna donate some cash to keep the server running, hardfp is really important
[0:58] <Iota> Anyone here got omxplayer working?
[0:59] <BenO> jamesglanville, did your install find any components in the GPU it could drive?
[0:59] <BenO> (OMX I mean)
[0:59] <drewh> does omxplayer use openmax for audio too?
[0:59] <drewh> or are we relying on ALSA for everything... :-(
[1:00] <BenO> omxplayer would likely just pipe directly to the GPU, as long as it found suitable media hardware to interface to
[1:00] * MrException (1847860f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.71.134.15) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[1:01] <jamesglanville> BenO: nah it wanted to link against an apparently x86 only thing
[1:01] <BenO> It is hardware-dependant, so that was a possibility
[1:01] <BenO> :( sucks
[1:01] <drewh> i don't suppose anyone has tried to compile xbmc yet
[1:01] <BenO> Now I'll have to go back to kicking ALSA around
[1:02] <Iota> I just read on reddit that Hexxeh has been trying to compile xbmc for the last couple of days.
[1:02] <Iota> lol.
[1:02] <BenO> Have xbmc put out a temporary release
[1:02] <BenO> ?
[1:02] <Hexxeh> Iota: you were misinformed
[1:02] <Iota> http://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/shpjt/rasberry_pi_1080p_video_playback/c4ebrnj
[1:02] <Iota> Lol.
[1:02] <Iota> No idea who that was.
[1:03] <drewh> i don't think so no
[1:03] <drewh> i'm pretty sure no one has binaries for xbmc
[1:03] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] <drewh> @Iota: that was me :)
[1:03] <drewh> how to i tag someone in irc
[1:03] <hamitron> give them a few months of having everyone working on it at least? ;)
[1:03] <Iota> Ah cool, hey drewh
[1:03] * Iota adds to friends.
[1:03] <drewh> how do i mention someone?
[1:04] <drewh> i'm using the irc webclient
[1:04] <Iota> You just say their name.
[1:04] <drewh> oh. ok.
[1:04] <MystX> just type their name
[1:04] <drewh> thanks!
[1:04] <MystX> Yeah that^^
[1:04] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host44-118-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
[1:04] * aristidesfl1 (~Adium@a89-153-142-45.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] <namfonos> im getting kernel panic not syncing vfs unable to mount root fs on unknown block
[1:04] <drewh> it's just funny that there are hundreds of the things out there and everyone has been holding their breath to hear about stuff
[1:05] <drewh> and info has been trickling in
[1:05] <namfonos> i've tried 3 different sd cards
[1:05] <namfonos> i loaded arch and debian on all of them
[1:05] <drewh> hmm
[1:05] <aristidesfl1> what's the best store to order a board for someone living in Portugal?
[1:05] <drewh> namfonos: when are you getting the kp?
[1:06] <namfonos> for arch the sd card that i currently have going right now it is the first and only line
[1:06] <namfonos> immediatly
[1:06] <drewh> aristidesfl1: RS and Farnell are both... well, no one is really great right now but might as well try both
[1:06] <namfonos> for debian it scrolls through a whole bunch of info and then in a while it kp's
[1:06] <namfonos> and i have an sd card that is on the list
[1:06] <cperrin88> I have compiled the kernel with NFSD support, what now? What do I need to put on the SD Card?
[1:07] <namfonos> its the sandisk sdhc gb
[1:07] <namfonos> err 8GB
[1:08] <namfonos> not sure which class i don't see that anywhere
[1:08] <BenO> You might have a 4 wrapped in a mostly complete circle - a C
[1:08] <namfonos> for the arch install i had it look like it was abot to load up
[1:09] <namfonos> it had the blue arch letters and said arch linux
[1:09] <namfonos> the way a normal arch startup begins
[1:10] <namfonos> oh i see its a back trace its scrolling through before a kernel panic
[1:10] <namfonos> then kp not syncing: fatal exception in terrupt
[1:11] <namfonos> interrupt*
[1:11] <cperrin88> namfonos: I know that
[1:11] <cperrin88> It's a feature :D
[1:12] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] <aristidesfl1> drewh: thanks
[1:12] <aristidesfl1> will the final version, with enclosure, cost the same?
[1:12] <drewh> hrmmm is anyone compiling xbmc then? i guess i was misinformed
[1:13] <drewh> *sigh*
[1:15] <tpresence> I guess I will wait for raspbmc...the current os's are too early to be of much use for AV
[1:16] <drewh> truth. TBH i'd be happy just having another little linux box hanging around
[1:16] <drewh> sometimes VMs just aren't as good
[1:16] * BjornW (~bjorn@miniski.xs4all.nl) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[1:18] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[1:19] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:20] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[1:20] * wry (~wry@c-71-205-142-149.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Zombie attack!)
[1:20] * [deXter] (dexter@79.133.200.37) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[1:26] <Matt> morning
[1:27] * tr-808 (brambles@unaffiliated/contempt) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:27] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@248-93.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:27] <Iota> Bed time.
[1:27] <Iota> o/
[1:28] * Syliss (~Syliss@108.210.165.132) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[1:29] <BenO> Good morrow
[1:31] * Kostic (~Kostic@net48-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:31] * Kostic (~Kostic@net48-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:32] <cperrin88> BenO: Do you know what I should do with the kernel now that it's compiled? Or more precisely what needs to go to the SD card?
[1:32] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:32] <BenO> cperrin88, I added a section to the end of the wiki page, right at the end
[1:32] <BenO> It was Hexxeh who told me the secret :)
[1:33] <cperrin88> oh
[1:33] <cperrin88> now I see
[1:33] <cperrin88> You think anyone might be interested in a merge with my fork with enabled NFSD ?
[1:33] <BenO> It's probably worth adding some preamble to tell people reading that page what to do overall
[1:34] <BenO> cperrin88, did you have to change any code to get the module to compile, or was it a kernel option you turned on?
[1:35] <cperrin88> just an option
[1:35] <cperrin88> or more a few
[1:36] <BenO> It's worth documenting definitely, so that other people can follow it :)
[1:38] <cperrin88> you have to add
[1:38] <cperrin88> CONFIG_NFSD=y
[1:38] <cperrin88> CONFIG_NFSD_V2_ACL=y
[1:38] <cperrin88> CONFIG_NFSD_V3=y
[1:38] <cperrin88> CONFIG_NFSD_V3_ACL=y
[1:38] <cperrin88> CONFIG_NFSD_V4=y
[1:39] * umbrella (~umbrella@unaffiliated/umbrella) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[1:43] * d3p1 (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) Quit (Quit: bye)
[1:43] * umbrella (~umbrella@unaffiliated/umbrella) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:45] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) Quit ()
[1:47] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-175-149.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:53] <cperrin88> Yay
[1:53] <cperrin88> it works
[1:54] <cperrin88> now I can use my RPi as NSF Server
[1:54] * IT_Sean releases the magical blue smoke from cperrin88's raspi
[1:55] <cperrin88> I didn't get that one
[1:55] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:55] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Changing host)
[1:55] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:56] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:56] <IT_Sean> YOu know... the magic smoke... that makes all electronics function... once you release it, they stop working... ... ..
[1:56] <cperrin88> <.< ... stop doing that ....
[1:56] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:56] <IT_Sean> NO!
[1:57] <cperrin88> YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS!
[1:57] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-etlbbxlyevdkuyro) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[1:58] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:58] <IT_Sean> Perhaps a bit. But, that doesn't change the fact that your raspi is now a pile of ruinous ash
[1:58] <cperrin88> Damn -_-
[1:59] * IT_Sean tosses cperrin88 a fresh raspi
[1:59] <cperrin88> Thanks :)
[1:59] <IT_Sean> The IT_Sean taketh, and the IT_Sean givith back
[1:59] <IT_Sean> or something
[1:59] * IT_Sean shrugs
[1:59] <BenO> You're just mad about releasing the voodoo in that encryption box earlier ;)
[2:00] <IT_Sean> Yeah.
[2:00] <IT_Sean> I crispified that
[2:00] <IT_Sean> Luckily, it just needed a new PSU board.
[2:00] <IT_Sean> It's now happily purring away on my desk, running automated tests
[2:00] <BenO> Nice :)
[2:01] <IT_Sean> in theory anyway
[2:01] <IT_Sean> I've been home for hours. so... who the hell knows.
[2:02] <BenO> Heh
[2:07] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[2:07] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:16] <namfonos> do i have to do anything special to get a screen detected?
[2:17] <namfonos> i've got x starting up on arch and its saying no screen
[2:17] <IT_Sean> Are you using HDMI or Composite?
[2:18] * AdrianG (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:18] <IT_Sean> It should Just Work, by my understanding
[2:18] * AdrianG (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:18] * mfguy (~usaguy567@pool-173-48-252-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:19] <drewh> how does the RPi know which screen to output to?
[2:21] <[deXter]> I like the RPi can run Quake3..
[2:21] <[deXter]> .. but ...
[2:21] <[deXter]> Can it run Crysis?!
[2:21] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc12-hart9-2-0-cust152.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:22] <drewh> i love everyone that's like
[2:22] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:22] <drewh> "can it run windos 8????"
[2:22] <[deXter]> Heh
[2:23] * m0spf (~steve@2001:ba8:1f1:f12e::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:23] <[deXter]> Actually
[2:23] <CcSsNET> can it run; run it can
[2:23] * Vlad (~vlad@2001:470:1f09:72b:1234:5678:90ab:cdef) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:23] <[deXter]> I love that everyone thinks Windows 8 ARM is the same as Windows 8 x86. :P
[2:23] * Vlad (~vlad@2001:470:1f09:72b:1234:5678:90ab:cdef) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:23] <IT_Sean> drewh, it detects the HDMI output. if no HDMI screen is present, it fails over to the composite.
[2:24] <drewh> IT_Sean: thanks! good to know, i don't have an HDMI or DVI compatible tv or monitior :)
[2:24] <CcSsNET> [deXter]: indeed the general public is amusing
[2:24] <drewh> 2x identical vga monitors and an old tv, don't really want to upgrade anything
[2:24] * Mez (~mez@ubuntu/member/mez) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[2:25] <IT_Sean> drewh, you'll be fine. It'll see that there is no HDMI display, and output to composite. The detection is performed at pre-boot, so, you cannot hot swap
[2:25] * m0spf (~steve@2001:ba8:1f1:f12e::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:26] <drewh> great! that's good to know
[2:26] <drewh> hot swap would be nice but that's ok
[2:26] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
[2:26] <ReggieUK> that's a pity that you can't enable both
[2:26] <drewh> i wonder if it's possible to force an output refresh
[2:27] <IT_Sean> I don't believe it is.
[2:27] <IT_Sean> Not without rebooting, anyway
[2:28] * cperrin88 (~cperrin88@dslb-084-059-109-147.pools.arcor-ip.net) has left #raspberrypi
[2:29] <BenO> drewh, IT_Sean I believe it is possible to affect the output resolution of the HDMI, as long as it booted up with that out
[2:29] <BenO> You can redirect the audio in the config.txt too
[2:29] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:29] <IT_Sean> you can?
[2:29] <BenO> ie have video over HDMI, but audio over the jack
[2:29] <IT_Sean> kinky
[2:34] <namfonos> what do i need in terms of video drivers?
[2:34] <namfonos> for arch?
[2:36] <drewh> anyone know how the audio is on the jack?
[2:36] <drewh> is it usable for TV?
[2:39] <IT_Sean> Yes, with the right cable
[2:39] <IT_Sean> Audio is output via HDMI or a headphone jack
[2:39] * m0spf (~steve@2001:ba8:1f1:f12e::2) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[2:41] * Vlad (~vlad@2001:470:1f09:72b:1234:5678:90ab:cdef) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[2:42] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc12-hart9-2-0-cust152.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:42] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[2:43] <kallisti5> I'm working on a port.. does anyone know if the tx rx header pins have serial bootload output?
[2:43] <kallisti5> (tx rx are 3.3v I think)
[2:43] * n1x0n (nixon@n1x0n-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:44] * PiOfCube (~christine@cpc4-gate9-2-0-cust283.gate.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:45] <BenO> kallisti5, kernel boot spits out the UART at 115200 IIRC
[2:46] <kallisti5> BenO: looking for more bootloader output (eg, the firmware binaries that kick off the kernel)
[2:46] <BenO> kallisti5, That's done by the gpu - I don't think that outputs anything
[2:47] <kallisti5> bah. Trying to troubleshoot a port and having some early feedback would of been nice
[2:48] <BenO> Yeah :( sorry - gpu has a really dumb bootloader that knows just enough to pull in the start.elf which kickstarts the rest off
[2:48] <kallisti5> BenO: hmm, so nothing from start.elf either?
[2:48] <kallisti5> (output wise)
[2:48] <BenO> I wasn't able to pull anything from serial, until it booted the kernel proper
[2:48] * n1x0n (nixon@n1x0n-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:48] <kallisti5> k
[2:49] <kallisti5> I noticed this strange script to append 32k to the kernel image
[2:49] <kallisti5> any thoughts on what that is?
[2:49] <BenO> tools/mkimage
[2:49] <BenO> ?
[2:49] <kallisti5> https://github.com/raspberrypi/tools/tree/master/mkimage to be exact
[2:49] <kallisti5> yeah
[2:50] <BenO> yep - I haven't looked into what that is yet :)
[2:50] <BenO> Required though to turn an uncompressed kernel into something the start.elf can boot up
[2:50] <kallisti5> ah. ok
[2:51] <BenO> eg normal linux "Image" + that header -> "kernel.img"
[2:51] <BenO> well, you've seen the script, it does more than that, but that's the jist of it
[2:51] <kallisti5> right. it also adds some hex data... man I wish this stuff was more open
[2:52] <BenO> kallisti5 hell yeah
[2:52] <kallisti5> i mean... we aren't talking about huge amounts of code here
[2:53] <kallisti5> oh well.. I booted Arch on my Pi... it runs pretty quick :D
[2:53] <BenO> kallisti5, tried recompiling to add in support for rootfs on USB?
[2:53] <blue_k> Has anyone run ARMedSlack on a Pi?
[2:54] <BenO> or does arch come with that on board?
[2:54] <kallisti5> The arch image also ships with the vll's on the boot partition where the debian image doesn't
[2:54] <kallisti5> BenO: nah... downloaded sd card image
[2:55] <BenO> kallisti5, the Pi felt faster than I anticipated too - was expecting it to crawl
[2:55] <BenO> :)
[2:55] <Tachyon`> I imagine it'll nip along quite nicely with the root fs on usb stick
[2:56] <BenO> yep :)
[2:56] <drewh> i've heard of debian doing that, will arch?
[2:56] <drewh> rootfs on usbi mean
[2:57] <Tachyon`> I think anything can, you just adjust the kernel boot parameters accordingly
[2:57] <kallisti5> no idea... I don't see why not.. as long as the kernel has usb support built in
[2:57] <kallisti5> then yah... point cmdline.txt to it
[2:57] <BenO> kernel needs usb storage and uas built into it, not as modules and then you are pretty good to go
[2:57] <drewh> yeah i guess usb support is the kicker
[2:57] <BenO> oh and at least ext4/fat built in too
[2:57] <drewh> right
[2:57] * aristidesfl (~Adium@a89-153-142-45.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:57] <drewh> is that common?
[2:58] <Tachyon`> well, fs is unimportant, if it's designed to boot an FS from SD it'll boot the same one from USB
[2:58] <BenO> mostly I think - the debian kernel was built with uas as a module though
[2:58] <Tachyon`> ext2 is faster for sticks but with the reliability cost
[2:58] <Tachyon`> best to mount with noatime etc. too
[2:58] <Tachyon`> to reduce small writes
[2:59] <BenO> true that
[3:00] * aristidesfl1 (~Adium@a89-153-142-45.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[3:08] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
[3:09] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[3:14] * drewh (459eab10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.158.171.16) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[3:15] <tpresence> I should put my class 10 sds on it
[3:16] <BenO> tpresence, they wouldn't be SD 3.0 would they?
[3:17] <tpresence> SDHC
[3:18] <BenO> Well, that's better - however I have heard rumours of issues with the class 10s, over and above the issues with the SD 3.0s
[3:19] <tpresence> they work in other devices, but, who knows
[3:20] <tpresence> I havent had too much issue with the pie, except when Im doing an apt-get
[3:20] <BenO> Give them a go - there is a page on the wiki that is collating good/bad experiences with SD cards
[3:20] <BenO> what's up with apt?
[3:20] <tpresence> just when I do apt the system will not even let me log in over ssh
[3:20] <tpresence> :D
[3:20] <tpresence> slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
[3:21] <hamitron> on the pi?
[3:21] <BenO> huh... as in it denies your attempt to ssh, or breaks any ssh connection already made?
[3:21] <tpresence> yeah
[3:21] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@cpc12-hart9-2-0-cust152.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:21] <tpresence> it wont break ssh already made
[3:21] <tpresence> just never give me a login prompt (or even pass forward the key) if its doing an apt-get
[3:22] <BenO> ah yeah - hw crypto would've been a nice addition :)
[3:23] <tpresence> when I was doing a pacman on arch it wouldnt even let me log into vt's (which debian doesnt have)
[3:23] <namfonos> well i got epiphany running on arch
[3:23] <namfonos> its pretty slow but i was able to go on reddt
[3:26] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[3:26] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:27] <tpresence> when I brought arch and lxde up, I though that I was running twm from ancient times
[3:27] <tpresence> might have been the ugliest desktop I have seen in over a decade
[3:28] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:29] <kallisti5> tpresence: arch takes some tweaking to look good
[3:30] <tpresence> yeah, Im going to wait, because I dont have 20 hours to make it tolerable
[3:30] <tpresence> ultimately, raspbmc will be my target anyway
[3:30] <kallisti5> lol.. 20hours may be a bit much :)
[3:30] <tpresence> raspbmc+mame
[3:30] <kallisti5> http://kallisti5.deviantart.com/#/d4u4drg
[3:30] <kallisti5> bam... 20 mins
[3:31] * aristidesfl1 (~Adium@a89-153-142-45.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:32] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[3:35] <aristidesfl1> will the final version of raspberry pi, with enclosure, cost the same?
[3:36] * StevenR (~foo@cpc2-sgyl27-2-0-cust391.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:36] * StevenR (~foo@cpc2-sgyl27-2-0-cust391.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:37] <tpresence> Id ont think they are providing an enclosure
[3:37] <tpresence> rs is stating they are going to presale one in a week or so
[3:37] * umbrella (~umbrella@unaffiliated/umbrella) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[3:37] <tpresence> but I dont think it goes beyond that
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[4:32] <wkl> hi, does pi support hdmi 1.2 to dvi wire?
[4:33] * Syliss (~Syliss@108.210.165.132) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[4:35] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Quit: O_o)
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[4:41] * Compy (~Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ()
[4:41] <hotwings> theres no special support needed for hdmi<->dvi
[4:43] * traulitada (~spico@bl16-73-113.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[4:52] <wkl> doc say the version of hdmi is 1.4(recommended) / 1.3. but cheap hdmi <-> dvi converter only support 1.2 or below, not sure if it work
[4:57] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[4:59] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:59] * mike__ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:02] * EastLight (a@5ace299d.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[5:18] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:19] <hotwings> you dont need a converter of any kind, unless youre just talking about an hdmi<->dvi cable
[5:20] * EiN_ (~einstein@199.180.99.34) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[5:20] <jamesglanville> the ethernet jack on my pi has two little black plastic prongs that go through the pcb, shouldn't they be melted to help secure the jack?
[5:21] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@31.6.22.136) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:22] <hotwings> jamesglanville - maybe theyre just placement tabs?
[5:22] <jamesglanville> hotwings: yeah it's probably nothing, I have just never seen those sorts of things that haven't been melted into a securing blob
[5:23] <dipstick> melt it youself?
[5:24] <jamesglanville> I don't actually care, I was just wondering if there was an explanation or if this is nothing
[5:24] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:28] <PiOfCube> I've got about 10 ATX M/Bs here and none of their plastic locating pins have been melted on any pieces
[5:45] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-121-216-91-70.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:23] * dipstick (~dipstick@unaffiliated/jms1989) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:23] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[6:27] * ShiftPlusOne2 is now known as ShiftPlusOne
[6:31] <huene> !w
[6:34] * pjn_oz (~quassel@2a01:348:24c:0:29ee:19a2:8c1c:c1db) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:38] <ShiftPlusOne> !w
[6:38] <ShiftPlusOne> hm
[6:40] <huene> seems, the bot is gone
[6:42] <ShiftPlusOne> good >=/
[6:53] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@199-7-156-42.eng.wind.ca) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[6:55] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-51.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[6:59] <DaQatz> Bots server is down.
[6:59] <DaQatz> And it's several hours drive from here.
[7:01] <ShiftPlusOne> how will the weather know what to do?
[7:02] * malandro95 (~malandro9@199.30.184.235) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:03] * malandro95 (~malandro9@199.30.184.235) Quit (Client Quit)
[7:07] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[7:11] * nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
[7:12] <DaQatz> ShiftPlusOne, I will inform it.
[7:12] <DaQatz> However also means things like the logs etc... are offline.
[7:15] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[7:27] * piney0 (~piney@pool-138-89-71-153.mad.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[7:38] <kallisti5> anyone get u-boot chainloaded in front of the crappy closed bootloader yet?
[7:39] <ShiftPlusOne2> good luck
[7:39] * ShiftPlusOne2 is now known as ShiftPlusOne
[7:39] <kallisti5> lol.. the thing works great for Linux.. going to be an up-hill battle for anything else
[7:40] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[7:40] <ShiftPlusOne> it does what it says on the tin... why would it be an up-hill battle?
[7:41] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:43] <kallisti5> ShiftPlusOne: need to know loader addresses for start.elf, and the general internals
[7:43] <ShiftPlusOne> I'll take your word for it
[7:45] <kallisti5> example: https://github.com/raspberrypi/tools/tree/master/mkimage
[7:45] <kallisti5> what are args-uncompressed.txt and boot-uncompressed.txt and first32k.bin
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[7:50] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:52] <ShiftPlusOne> friggle, ping?
[7:53] <ShiftPlusOne> kallisti5, either way, I don't think it's anything tricky.
[7:54] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: kcj)
[7:56] <kallisti5> ShiftPlusOne: it's not tricky... if docs existed
[7:56] <kallisti5> otherwise the thing is a black box
[7:56] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.142.236) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:56] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:57] <kallisti5> aaannyway. off to bed.. too late here
[7:57] <kallisti5> if anyone has info... let me know ^_^
[7:58] <ShiftPlusOne> kallisti5, I don't think it's so much a black box as it is something that's not common knowledge yet. I don't think there's anything secret or proprietary there, it should all just be reverse-engeneerable arm stuff. I'd wait and ask if friggle knows though.
[8:12] * wry (~wry@c-71-205-142-149.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Zombie attack!)
[8:16] * WalrusKaput (45f3918a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.243.145.138) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:17] <WalrusKaput> has anyone from the Chicago area gotten an RPi yet?
[8:19] <ShiftPlusOne> you think they're distributing them state by state?
[8:21] <des2> I feel sorry for the people in Wyoming....
[8:22] <ShiftPlusOne> why's that?
[8:22] <des2> They're way down on the state by state list...
[8:24] <WalrusKaput> .-. I know it's by order of people who signed up
[8:24] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:24] <WalrusKaput> i'm just wondering if anyone around Chicago has one
[8:25] <ShiftPlusOne> O_o
[8:25] <des2> I heard Rahm has one. He has connections...
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[8:32] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[8:33] <mozzwald> WalrusKaput: got one here in peoria
[8:34] <des2> I'm shocked. There really is a Peoria ?
[8:34] <mozzwald> yes :)
[8:35] <mozzwald> 2 actually, illinois and arizona
[8:35] <des2> heh. i never knew there was 2.
[8:35] <des2> Copycats.
[8:36] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:36] <mozzwald> not sure which came first
[8:38] <des2> The Arizonans who named it came from Illinois.
[8:44] * Mavy-bnc is now known as Mavy
[8:46] <WalrusKaput> I ordered one on the 29th at 6AM through Farnell export. still waiting. >.> I tried buying one at midnight but the server was totally fucked
[8:46] <WalrusKaput> 29th of feb
[8:47] <des2> Do you have a projected ship date ?
[8:47] <WalrusKaput> mozzwald - how is it so far?
[8:47] <WalrusKaput> not as of yet
[8:47] <WalrusKaput> still pending
[8:47] * umbrella (~umbrella@unaffiliated/umbrella) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[8:49] <mozzwald> WalrusKaput: I ordered around 5:30am on the 29th so I beat you by a little bit. haven't had a whole lot of time to play with it but have had some troubles
[8:49] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@s16.av05.mtangel.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:50] <mozzwald> trying to get an external usb 'docking station' with serial/lpt/powered hub/ethernet to work, but it makes it unstable
[8:51] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:51] <mozzwald> also, starting a git clone before I went to work today, came home and it stuck in kernel panic
[8:51] <mozzwald> s/starting/started
[8:52] * stuk_gen (~quassel@151.65.14.50) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:53] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-225-217.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:53] <WalrusKaput> has anyone been able to test it in regards to an external hard drive or flash drive? i'm hoping to test out basic day-to-day utilities, e.g. acting as an ebook reader for books from project gutenberg
[8:54] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.142.236) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[8:54] <des2> See this is why I didn't want to be in the first batches.
[8:54] <mjr> somebody was using an external hard drive yesterday, also doing some ethernet speed testing
[8:57] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:57] <mozzwald> thought my issues with dock were power related so I rigged up 5v 1.2A supply for pi and another for external dock, but still had problems
[8:58] <WalrusKaput> I know someone had a nodejs server that was live that people were able to access
[8:58] <WalrusKaput> running on his RPi
[8:58] <mjr> mozzwald, that's slightly troubling
[8:59] <mjr> anecdotal though it is
[8:59] <des2> one of the things we don't know yet is the yield
[9:00] <des2> That is what % or PIs will be defective
[9:00] <des2> of
[9:01] * piless (piless@94.197.224.102.threembb.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:01] <mjr> *nod*
[9:02] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.142.236) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:02] * diplo (~diplo@cpc2-trow1-0-0-cust1447.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:05] * kalem (~kalem@host185-195-static.104-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:05] * kalem (~kalem@host185-195-static.104-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Changing host)
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[9:07] <mozzwald> is there irclog online somewhere?
[9:09] <WalrusKaput> is anyone in this room actually typing from their Pi?
[9:09] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-225-217.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[9:09] * piless (piless@94.197.224.102.threembb.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[9:10] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-225-217.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:10] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:12] <diplo> mozzwald, http://srv.datagutt1.com/
[9:13] <mozzwald> thx
[9:13] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:13] * mike_ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:13] * mike_ is now known as Guest33283
[9:19] * mozz-pi (~mozz-pi@c-71-239-236-121.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:19] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-225-217.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Excess Flood)
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[9:21] * piless (~piless@94.196.209.123.threembb.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:22] * Gambit- (~gambit@unaffiliated/gambit-) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[9:23] * felgru (~felgru@xdsl-78-35-220-72.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:23] <Mowee> Morning
[9:30] * namfonos1 (~boris@108-194-22-242.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) has left #raspberrypi
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[9:36] * khildin (~khildin@ip-80-236-225-217.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
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[9:44] <WalrusKaput> what are people using for cases since I don't think any have started shipping yet?
[9:44] * stereohead-away is now known as stereohead
[9:47] * oberling_ is now known as oberling
[9:48] <piless> WalrusKaput: cigarette packets
[9:48] <WalrusKaput> lol seriously?
[9:48] <piless> yes
[9:49] <WalrusKaput> wouldn't that like cause it to overheat?
[9:49] <piless> no, overheating isn't really an issue unless you plan to do some serious overclocking
[9:49] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@s16.av05.mtangel.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:49] <WalrusKaput> would the foil conduct any electricity?
[9:50] <piless> it would
[9:50] <WalrusKaput> i figured that
[9:50] <WalrusKaput> my best solution would be tupperware
[9:50] <WalrusKaput> inexpensive, non-conductive, and you can cut into it easily
[9:50] <WalrusKaput> would that work?
[9:50] <piless> some people wanted to use altoid tins but they're just a smidge too small
[9:51] <WalrusKaput> the metal would fuck with it, so i figured that wouldn't work
[9:51] <piless> WalrusKaput: Sure, the only thing you're got to worry about is securing it in place because there's no mounting holes on the pcb
[9:52] * cerberos (~cerberos@79.173.145.190) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:52] * cerberos (~cerberos@79.173.145.190) Quit (Client Quit)
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[9:52] * stereohead is now known as stereohead-away
[9:52] <WalrusKaput> if i could find some plastic grommets for it or some electrical tape, that could work
[9:53] * stereohead-away is now known as stereohead
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[9:55] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) Quit (Excess Flood)
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[9:59] * mozz-pi (~mozz-pi@c-71-239-236-121.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[10:01] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p1-223.molalla.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:02] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:06] * carbantum (~carbantum@63.45.96.58.static.exetel.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:07] * RaTTuS|BIG (~Rattus.bi@80.4.146.163) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[10:10] <Mazon> lego?
[10:13] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:13] * WalrusKaput (45f3918a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.243.145.138) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[10:13] * blue_k (~blue_k@97.102.75.249) Quit ()
[10:13] <piless> There are a couple lego designs floating around
[10:23] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:25] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[10:34] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:34] * hotwings_ is now known as hotwings
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[10:47] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@30.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:47] <Gadget-Mac> Morning all
[10:47] <RaTTuS|BIG> \o
[10:48] * umbrella (~umbrella@unaffiliated/umbrella) Quit (Client Quit)
[10:48] <Gadget-Mac> Whats the best way to develop for RPi, qemu ?
[10:48] * umbrella (~umbrella@unaffiliated/umbrella) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> Gadget-Mac: vi+gcc
[10:49] <a_c_r> second vi+gcc
[10:50] <a_c_r> and vi+python for higher level
[10:50] <Gadget-Mac> So cross compile :) How does that work with existing packages and makefiles ?
[10:50] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[10:50] <SpeedEvil> Whatever emothod is most comfortable to you.
[10:51] <mjr> I'd probably compile in an emulator 'cause I'm a lazy bastard. Though perhaps cross-compiling environment setup has become easier since I last checked an eon ago
[10:55] * Martix (~martix@98.138.broadband7.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:04] * M0GHY (~peterholl@78-86-153-55.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:10] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@rdbk.p1-223.molalla.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:12] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:13] * Martix (~martix@98.138.broadband7.iol.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[11:16] * Netlynx (~jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[11:23] * the_real_crimper (~the_real_@cpe-98-154-91-166.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:24] * the_real_crimper (~the_real_@cpe-98-154-91-166.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:26] <CcSsNET> mjr: only somewhat. if by easier you mean run some script and care about nothing. maybe
[11:27] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-121-216-91-70.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:33] <mjr> basically I'm thinking "install deb, add a compile flag or failing that, set a compiler to use". But apparently there is something that might be along those lines these days, armel-cross-toolchain-base...
[11:40] * mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:40] * mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:46] <CcSsNET> mjr: ttylinux.net is a great cross compile system. it happens to have a beaglebone script you could easily modify for whatever armel target you have (asuming raspberrypi)
[11:46] * Axman6 (~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[11:46] <CcSsNET> i happen to have ported it, not finished, but ported to open pandora handheld
[11:46] * Martix (~martix@217.66.178.112) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:47] <CcSsNET> unlike open embedded, ttylinux is minimal on purpose
[11:47] <CcSsNET> and all the other systems out there
[11:48] <CcSsNET> clearly you would want to download the source tarball in this case ^
[11:52] <shirro> Wow. Nearly half the packages in the debian hardfloat are built already. Someone doesn't need to eat or sleep.
[11:53] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-115-87-205-213.revip4.asianet.co.th) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:56] <mjr> shirro, that someone may be a computer :]
[11:57] * M0GHY (~peterholl@78-86-153-55.zone2.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[11:57] * mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:57] * AdrianG (~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[11:58] <shirro> If only it was that easy. Every time a build failed it had to be investigated, changes made and put back in the queue. I have rebuilt the same thing dozens of times trying to get things right and these boards aren't real quick. I am stunned.
[11:59] * rai (~rai@ec2-184-72-80-113.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:03] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-06.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:04] * M0GHY (~peterholl@78-86-153-55.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:07] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:18] * the_real_crimper (~the_real_@cpe-98-154-91-166.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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[12:20] <Gadget-Mac> hmmm. Looks like squeezeslave breaks the alsa drivers :(
[12:25] * Kyzz (~quassel@cpe-24-166-81-109.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[12:37] <Caver> did anyone see this - http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/10/03/chasing-the-raspberry-pi-dragon-opengl-es2-accelerated-qt-pi/
[12:39] <rm> the raspberry pi dragon O.o
[12:39] <Caver> yay
[12:39] <rm> someone has an interesting imagination
[12:40] <Caver> but more interestingly using it's OpenGL ES ...
[12:40] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[12:41] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:41] <Caver> morning IT_Sean
[12:45] * Da|Mummy (~veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[12:46] <IT_Sean> Mornin'
[12:46] * wej (~j@95.211.10.3) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[12:50] * Caver is defo going to download and have a play with the QtonPi one tonight
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[13:28] * cperrin88 (~cperrin88@dslb-084-059-109-147.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:31] <cperrin88> Hey, I did something to my raspberrypi and I don't know what but now it's not able to mount the root filesystem even though he finds all three partitions
[13:31] <cperrin88> is there some way I can repair the FS?
[13:32] <mjr> sounds like reflashing the card time if there's some mysterious unknown problem...
[13:32] <cperrin88> but I just got ti to run smoothly -_-
[13:33] <cperrin88> I even compiled a kernel!!!!!
[13:33] <cperrin88> my first one
[13:33] <Hexxeh> cperrin88: maybe a fsck is in order
[13:34] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@pool-71-189-223-229.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[13:36] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:37] <cperrin88> Hexxeh: that gifs a lot of errors but maybe it helps ... i forgot about fsck
[13:37] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:38] <cperrin88> *gives
[13:40] <Caver> oops
[13:41] <cperrin88> Caver: Yep, that is exactly what is on my screen right now
[13:41] <Caver> also check you compiled the right file systems into the kernel
[13:41] <cperrin88> It worked before
[13:41] <Caver> cat /etc/filesystems
[13:42] <Caver> no
[13:42] <Caver> cat /proc/filesystems
[13:42] * Martix (~martix@217.66.178.112) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:43] <cperrin88> I cant boot so how should I look into proc?
[13:45] <cperrin88> *sighs* let's reflash that bi*ch
[13:46] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[13:46] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:46] * Martix (~martix@217.66.178.112) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[13:47] * KrisW (~kris@cpc7-swin14-2-0-cust99.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[13:47] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:48] <Caver> thats a good point ... I guess check the kernel config
[13:48] <IT_Sean> Morning
[13:48] <Caver> also check you have initrd support
[13:48] <Caver> hi
[13:49] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:51] * felgru (~felgru@xdsl-78-35-220-72.netcologne.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:51] <cperrin88> Caver: Like I said, the Kernel is fine, I booted it and used it a few times before, but I think i laid something on te pi and then it rebooted and then kernel panic ... i guess it's my fault
[13:52] <passstab> hi all
[13:52] <cperrin88> Hi passstab
[13:52] <Caver> aha
[13:52] <Caver> I guess yes it's either a iffy SD card - mine did that after a couple uses
[13:52] <Caver> or just plain corrupted filesystem
[13:52] <Caver> hi passstab
[13:53] <cperrin88> fsck corrected a few things and after that the system could mount but then the pi couldnt find init
[13:54] <Caver> while filesystem are you using? ext2/3/4? or something more obscure
[13:54] <Caver> *which
[13:55] <cperrin88> 4
[13:55] <cperrin88> ext4
[13:55] <Matt> morning
[13:55] <Hourd> good morning
[13:55] * Compy (~Compy@128.192.112.158) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:55] <cperrin88> Like the normal debian kernel image
[13:55] * TC14 (~tc14@150.237.48.99) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:55] <passstab> i'm trying to boot a .iso in qemu and save it as a .img
[13:55] <passstab> 1 is that a good plan?
[13:56] <Caver> thats fine
[13:56] <Caver> qemu won't care what name the CD image is
[13:57] <passstab> is this line wrong?
[13:57] <passstab> qemu-system-arm -cdrom debian-6.0.4-armel-CD-1.iso -kernel kernel-qemu -cpu arm1136 -M versatilepb -no-reboot -append "root=/dev/sda2 panic=1" -hda debstable.img
[13:57] <Caver> -boot d
[13:58] <Caver> try: qemu-system-arm -cdrom debian-6.0.4-armel-CD-1.iso -kernel kernel-qemu -cpu arm1136 -M versatilepb -no-reboot -append "root=/dev/sda2 panic=1" -cdrom debstable.img -boot d
[13:58] <Caver> ah hold on
[13:58] <Caver> sorry
[13:59] <Caver> try: qemu-system-arm -cdrom debian-6.0.4-armel-CD-1.iso -kernel kernel-qemu -cpu arm1136 -M versatilepb -no-reboot -append "root=/dev/sda2 panic=1" -hda debstable.img -boot d
[14:00] <passstab> nope
[14:00] <Caver> what error do you get?
[14:01] <passstab> it reboots
[14:01] * TC14 (~tc14@150.237.48.99) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:01] * acperkins (~acperkins@pdpc/supporter/student/acperkins) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:01] * passstab forgets how to do terminal output
[14:02] * uen| is now known as uen
[14:03] <Caver> do you need to tell the kernel the location of the initrd ?
[14:03] <passstab> ??
[14:03] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[14:03] * weuxel (~Weuxel@2a01:4f8:160:4183:250:56ff:fe00:1a05) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[14:04] * weuxel (~Weuxel@2a01:4f8:160:4183:250:56ff:fe00:1a05) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:04] <Caver> sudo ~/source/raspberrypi/qemu/arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm -M versatilepb -cpu arm1176 -m 256 -hda rootfs.ext2 -kernel zImage -append "root=/dev/sda rw init=/bin/bash" -serial stdio was mine ....
[14:05] <passstab> ah that probably is the problem
[14:05] <Caver> though in this case I put in init= of /bin/bash to just get me running
[14:07] * uen (~uen@p5DCB0F65.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:10] * Caver having a d'oh momemt, as although I plugged in the Pi to the USB hub before I left for work, I forgot to reconnect the ethernet cable!
[14:10] <passstab> i get please append a correct "root=" boot option
[14:10] <passstab> coplon@Dimension-3000:~/Desktop/ksc/piworld$ qemu-system-arm -cdrom debian-6.0.4-armel-CD-1.iso -kernel kernel-qemu -cpu arm1136 -M versatilepb -no-reboot -append "root=/dev/sr0 rw init=/bin/bash" -hda debstable.img -boot d
[14:11] <passstab> oops
[14:11] <Caver> aha ... change root=/dev/cdrom?
[14:11] <passstab> also with /dev/hda
[14:11] <Caver> or /dev/hdd
[14:12] <Hexxeh> Anyone seen this? http://pastebin.com/A0rvasgN
[14:13] * WASDx (~AINOR@81-229-79-162-no64.business.telia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:13] <passstab> same
[14:13] <cperrin88> Hexxeh: what's that?
[14:13] <passstab> i'm given two options
[14:13] <Caver> ooh :)
[14:14] <Hexxeh> found it on google
[14:14] <passstab> sr0 and sda
[14:14] * WASDx (~AINOR@81-229-79-162-no64.business.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:14] <Caver> your trying to make it boot from the cd?
[14:14] <Caver> or just have the cd available?
[14:15] <passstab> boot from the .iso
[14:16] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:17] <Caver> if it's a cdrom, then why give kernel options at all?
[14:19] <passstab> oh ok
[14:20] <passstab> removing the -append didn't chang anything
[14:20] <passstab> change
[14:20] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:21] <Caver> remove -kernel too
[14:21] * uen (~uen@p5DCB1FB0.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:21] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-uhofxiouobfkxxps) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:22] <passstab> Kernel image must be specified
[14:22] <Caver> !
[14:22] <passstab> coplon@Dimension-3000:~/Desktop/ksc/piworld$ qemu-system-arm -cdrom debian-6.0.4-armel-CD-1.iso -cpu arm1136 -M versatilepb -no-reboot -hda debstable.img -boot d
[14:25] <Caver> is the cd actually bootable?
[14:25] <Caver> I thought normally you have to bootstrap using debootstrap for ARM setups
[14:25] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/19/an-interview-with-millenium-technology-prize-finalist-linus-torvalds/
[14:26] <RaTTuS|BIG> linus like teh Rpi
[14:26] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[14:26] <Caver> passstab, http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/10/18/raspberry-pi-emulator-in-ubuntu-with-qemu/
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> RaTTuS|BIG: There is a factory in china making 100 thousand of him?
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> RaTTuS|BIG: He can be plugged into a HDMI monitor?
[14:27] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@248-93.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:27] <RaTTuS|BIG> ;-p
[14:27] <n1x0n> sorry for non techical moanining - I can see that RS is apparently now shipping, did anyone actually get anything from RS other then 'update email' ?
[14:28] -NickServ- MABot!datagutt@static.130.149.9.176.clients.your-server.de has just authenticated as you (DataBot)
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> I have a 'In compensation for the delay in your order, we are shipping you eight hot fillipinos along with your raspberry pi.'
[14:29] <n1x0n> awesomeness
[14:29] <Caver> male or female though?
[14:29] <n1x0n> XD
[14:29] <passstab> Caver, thanks
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Minions are always handy - even if not female.
[14:29] <Caver> lol
[14:30] <Hexxeh> http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/04/19/how-to-setup-a-vnc-remote-connection-to-a-raspberry-pi/
[14:30] <Caver> you want a houseboy
[14:30] <Hexxeh> Hah! That's a Pi sat on my desk he's using... :P
[14:30] <Caver> grins
[14:30] <passstab> is there a way to make a netinstall image?
[14:30] <Hexxeh> Note the pi.hexxeh.net in the screenshot
[14:30] <Caver> I forgot to plug mine back into the ethernet before I left for work
[14:30] <Hexxeh> And yes, that address does point to a Pi :P
[14:30] <Caver> yay
[14:31] <Caver> erm ... you could ask on one of the debian channels
[14:32] <Hexxeh> Just noticed the post below about his work with me on Chromium OS :P
[14:35] <Caver> has anyone played with the QtonPi image yet?
[14:36] <Matt> QtPi would be a better name
[14:36] <vgrade> :)
[14:36] <vgrade> yes I've tried it
[14:36] <vgrade> works as advertised
[14:36] <Caver> yay
[14:37] * mayli (~mayli@2001:250:401:a218:210:c6ff:fe15:2d87) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:38] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: kcj)
[14:39] <Hexxeh> vgrade: seen this? http://pastebin.com/A0rvasgN
[14:40] <Veryevil> where has that come from?
[14:41] <vgrade> Hexxeh, and thats differnet to what is in the Pi kernel?
[14:41] <Veryevil> I am right in thinking that is a X driver for HW Accel?
[14:41] <vgrade> Veryevil, not X, kernel framebuffer
[14:42] <Caver> thats a standard no accelerated framebuffer source
[14:42] <Veryevil> got all excited for a second there
[14:42] <Caver> http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/10/03/chasing-the-raspberry-pi-dragon-opengl-es2-accelerated-qt-pi/ might excite you more then ....
[14:43] * Caver hands you a tissue
[14:43] <vgrade> Caver, thats just a single screen hack just like the EGL hack we have already
[14:44] <Veryevil> thats not an X driver either its accelerated Qt
[14:44] <shirro> Caver: what is so exciting about last years news? Am I missing something?
[14:44] <Caver> oh I thought some accelated opengl might be interesting thats all
[14:44] * Caver apologises ...
[14:44] <shirro> Caver: Yes, the Pi has OpenGL ES. Full screen. Not X windows.
[14:44] * umbrella (~umbrella@unaffiliated/umbrella) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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[14:45] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:45] <mjr> accelerated qt is useful, yeah, but not a panacea
[14:45] <Caver> *sighs*
[14:45] <Caver> ok ok I get the point
[14:45] <Caver> *I* though it was interesting
[14:45] <vgrade> Caver, it is/was
[14:46] <shirro> it is great for a full screen single app thing like a media center or a game console. To have multiple apps compositing windows on the same screen you really need ti hooked into X or wait for Wayland.
[14:47] <shirro> Caver: the Qt thing is what sparked my interest. It is totally interesting. Just kind of old.
[14:48] <mjr> yeah it's not uninteresting
[14:48] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:48] <Caver> I'd love an accelerated X server too
[14:48] <shirro> The demos of shader live coding with qt looked like fun. Very much like http://glsl.heroku.com/
[14:49] * Matt remembers linux before the console framebuffer
[14:49] <Caver> me too ...
[14:49] <Matt> svgalib was such fun
[14:49] <vgrade> Hexxeh, that is different, it has dma :)
[14:49] <shirro> Accelerating X may not make it much faster. Turning EXA off on my arm thingy makes it faster.
[14:50] <Veryevil> EXA?
[14:50] <mjr> Xorg's acceleration architecture
[14:50] <mjr> what arm thingy is that?
[14:51] <piless> mjr: the appendage connected to your shoulders
[14:51] * mjr wiggles his thingy
[14:52] <passstab> no it is the appendage connected to your shoulder
[14:53] <shirro> mjr: imx53
[14:53] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-whjyzmjdmqjjecfo) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:54] * Mavy is now known as Mavy-bnc
[14:54] * troth (~troth@nat/hp/x-whjyzmjdmqjjecfo) has left #raspberrypi
[14:56] <rm> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/355912144-2012-Newest-Mini-Computer-Thin-Client-Network-Terminal-Thin-Station-with-Windows-XPE-Embedded-Intel-N270-wholesalers.html
[14:56] <rm> isn't this cute
[14:57] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Quit: .)
[14:59] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@pool-108-7-230-209.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:59] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:01] <shirro> I just hope it isn't built like those chinese power supplies
[15:01] * M0GHY1 (~peterholl@78-86-153-55.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:01] <rm> I have a bad feeling it has at least 1 fan there behind the grill
[15:01] <rm> of maybe even two
[15:02] <shirro> They probably left out a few capacitors to lower the cost as well.
[15:04] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[15:05] <vgrade> Hexxeh, http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/so-whos-workingworked-on-an-xorg-server/page-4
[15:05] <Caver> lol that's hideous
[15:06] <Caver> mind you the Pi, really has redefinned what cheap computing hardware is ....
[15:06] <rm> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/550281030-U-Host-Super-Mini-HDMI-Dongle-puts-Android-on-your-TV-Smart-your-TV-with-Cortex-wholesalers.html
[15:06] <rm> ha
[15:07] <rm> http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/550281030_1/U-Host-Super-Mini-HDMI-Dongle-puts-Android-on-your-TV-Smart-your-TV-with-Cortex.jpg
[15:07] <rm> certainly reminds me of "something" :)
[15:07] <rm> too bad it's only Android
[15:08] <Caver> I seem to rememebr that one being announced the day before the Pi went on sale ... vapour and wear were mentioned ... frequently in the same breath
[15:08] <Caver> still nice spec
[15:09] <Caver> I suspect the graphics are slower
[15:09] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:09] <Caver> I imagine though ... you can put linux on it, but little to no chance of getting open gl anything
[15:14] <Hexxeh> vgrade: yeah, isn't that going to provide better performance than the current setup?
[15:15] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-115-87-205-213.revip4.asianet.co.th) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:16] <passstab> caver if all i want is a Debian base install can i skip steps one and two and use 1136?
[15:16] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:18] <passstab> (of http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/10/18/raspberry-pi-emulator-in-ubuntu-with-qemu/)
[15:19] * cgenner (~cgenner@tuxx.org.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:20] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[15:22] <vgrade> Hexxeh, from the comments it did not make a difference as the DMA accelerated functions were not sed by the Xorg FB driver
[15:22] <vgrade> used
[15:22] <passstab> that is
[15:22] * mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:22] <passstab> skip to "Generating ARMEL Debian Squeeze Rootfs"
[15:23] <vgrade> Hexxeh, should be easy to add it to the kernel as see
[15:23] <Caver> passstab, yes I think thats ok
[15:25] <passstab> ok thanks
[15:26] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-51.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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[15:39] <Hexxeh> vgrade: Can I run a stacktrace by you see if you can make any sense of it?
[15:39] <Hexxeh> It's from Chromium, got a coredump and ran it against GDB on another machine with more memory
[15:40] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:44] * cperrin88 (~cperrin88@dslb-084-059-109-147.pools.arcor-ip.net) has left #raspberrypi
[15:45] <Veryevil> are you having problems with the google chrome browser on your Pi?
[15:45] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:45] <Hexxeh> Yeah
[15:45] <Veryevil> the one from apt?
[15:45] <Hexxeh> Older builds run fine with a couple patches for things like V8, but current builds segfault instantly on launch
[15:45] * Guest33283 (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:45] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:45] <Hexxeh> No, from source
[15:45] <Hexxeh> The one in APT is absolutely ancient
[15:46] <Veryevil> ah. I was gonna say it worked from me with just apt-get install chromium-browser
[15:46] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[15:46] <BenO> Veryevil, Yeah - it's just that it is literally tens of versions behind :)
[15:46] <Veryevil> lol didnt check
[15:46] <Hexxeh> I think it's like Chromium 8 or something in the repos
[15:47] <Hexxeh> We're on what, version 20 now? :P
[15:47] <Veryevil> what about the google apt repo?
[15:47] <Hexxeh> No ARM binaries
[15:47] <Veryevil> oh ok
[15:48] <Hexxeh> Eeek, it's worse than that
[15:48] <Hexxeh> Chromium 6 in the repos
[15:48] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:48] <Hexxeh> That's mid-2010 or so
[15:48] <Hexxeh> So about 18-24 months old
[15:48] <BenO> Ah back when HTML 4.01 ruled ;)
[15:48] <shirro> How about using git bisect to find when it breaks?
[15:49] <Hexxeh> shirro: A possibility, but given how long a build takes, it'd likely take weeks
[15:50] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[15:51] * Docmahoo (~Docmahoo@ip-2-206-0-113.web.vodafone.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:51] <shirro> can you strip down the chrome build by disabling all the fancy stuff to make it build faster? It sounds like it is crashing very early.
[15:52] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:52] <Hexxeh> There's ninja, but I've never had much luck with that on ARM tbh
[15:53] <Veryevil> have you been able to check if the compiled output is entirely armv6?
[15:53] <Hexxeh> How, exactly? :P
[15:53] <shirro> readelf -A
[15:54] <Veryevil> like that
[15:54] <shirro> run it on any libs and bins
[15:54] <Hexxeh> interesting, I didn't know about that command!
[15:54] <Hexxeh> i'll take a look, thanks
[15:54] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:54] <Docmahoo> Has Anyonetried how far you can oc the Raspberry pi without modifying the cooling?
[15:54] <shirro> 900Mhz in a review
[15:54] <Hexxeh> http://pastebin.com/TrCp2tEV looks like it's ARMv6 to me
[15:55] <ukscone> Hexxeh: readelf is fun :) just pipe it through less or a file if you can't read fast :)
[15:55] <Docmahoo> thanks but did anyone try it for him/herself?
[15:55] <shirro> What about shared libs?
[15:56] <Hexxeh> time to play with pipes and ldd/readelf
[15:56] <Veryevil> Hexxeh: try it on any libs as well
[15:56] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has left #raspberrypi
[15:56] <shirro> I am trying to bootstrap something for Pi on an armv7 at the moment. readelf -A is VERY handy.
[15:57] <BenO> http://debian.raspbian.com/ <-- absolutely mental. The hardfp distro is live ;)
[15:57] <shirro> And he has about half the packages built. Amazing
[15:57] <Hexxeh> OOOH!
[15:57] <Hexxeh> he has chromium 17
[15:57] <Hexxeh> i wonder if he's tested it
[15:57] <Matt> lol
[15:57] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@rrcs-97-77-70-128.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:57] <Hexxeh> doubt it :P
[15:58] <shirro> Some of it won't even install because dependencies will be missing
[15:58] <Hexxeh> jesus christ, he's got a hell of a lot of packages built
[15:58] <shirro> 16000
[15:58] <shirro> of 34000
[15:58] <Hexxeh> he must be packing some serious horsepower to get it done so fast
[15:58] <BenO> I think the previous 10 pages of the topic talk about clusters ;)
[15:58] <BenO> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/projects-and-collaboration-general/debian-hard-float-armhf-for-rpi/page-11
[15:58] <shirro> I don't know how he did it. He has been using ONE imx53 1Ghz Cortex A8
[15:59] <shirro> Now he has got several more.
[15:59] <Hexxeh> uh
[15:59] <Hexxeh> isn't cortex a8 armv7?
[15:59] <Veryevil> he is compiling as v6 though
[16:00] <Hexxeh> ah
[16:00] <BenO> Lol - he's using Dreamhost VPS and trying to use 1 week of their free service ;)
[16:00] <shirro> He built a bootstrap on armv7 then ran a script (using readelf) to find where armv7 static libs had poluted things. Then rebuilt
[16:01] <shirro> He can't have slept for a few weeks.
[16:02] <M0RBD> heh
[16:02] <M0RBD> shirro: I know people like that..
[16:02] <M0RBD> however it comes with a price..
[16:03] <BenO> Bah why can't the WPforums have proper math as a captcha...
[16:04] * Flea86 (~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au) has left #raspberrypi
[16:04] * Docmahoo (~Docmahoo@ip-2-206-0-113.web.vodafone.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:04] <TTSDA> I can't wait to have a pi :<
[16:04] <TTSDA> Well, I can wait, but well
[16:04] <M0RBD> hopefully I'll have a iMX6 in my hands soon.
[16:06] <Hexxeh> reminds me why I love linux: ldd chrome/chrome | cut -d" " -f3 | xargs -d '\n' readelf -A
[16:06] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@90-227-25-142-no68.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:06] * Kushykins (Kushykins@109.73.162.123) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:06] * Docmahoo (~Docmahoo@ip-2-206-0-113.web.vodafone.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:07] <Veryevil> and the result of that si?
[16:07] <Veryevil> is?
[16:07] <Hexxeh> libs are armv4t
[16:07] <Hexxeh> this is running on the debian image
[16:07] <BenO> I <3 xargs
[16:07] * Mavy-bnc is now known as Mavy
[16:08] * Docmahoo (~Docmahoo@ip-2-206-0-113.web.vodafone.de) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:08] <Iota> Guys, what should I do? I feel like I'm not taking advantage of my Pi.
[16:09] <Hexxeh> here's the full output: http://pastebin.com/WvjDaC6r
[16:09] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@248-93.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:11] <RaTTuS|BIG> Iota send it to me
[16:11] * t_o_r_a (59b87272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.184.114.114) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <BenO> RaTTuS|BIG, I have to admire your persistence in trying to get people to send you their Pis ;)
[16:11] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@pool-71-189-223-229.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:12] <RaTTuS|BIG> well someone might ... as I wait for mine to be delivered
[16:12] <Iota> Oh you.
[16:12] <RaTTuS|BIG> or even made
[16:12] <Caver> RaTTuS|BIG, I could lend you mine ... for the right price ...
[16:12] <Caver> where are you?
[16:12] <RaTTuS|BIG> !w
[16:12] * Meatballs|Away (Meatballs2@195.110.8.226) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[16:12] <shirro> Does Chrome dlopen any other libs? Are there any others in the package you built?
[16:12] <RaTTuS|BIG> dead bot - Runcorn UK
[16:13] <RaTTuS|BIG> but I'll just wait for it to come ...
[16:13] <Hexxeh> shirro: ffmpeg, but that's armv6 too
[16:13] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@31.6.22.136) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:13] <Caver> a shame ... if you were a bit closer!
[16:13] <Caver> <--- Berkshire
[16:13] <RaTTuS|BIG> Hexxeh is closer ....
[16:14] <Veryevil> Derby
[16:14] * t_o_r_a (59b87272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.184.114.114) has left #raspberrypi
[16:14] * Vlad (~vlad@2001:470:1f09:72b:1234:5678:90ab:cdef) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:14] <RaTTuS|BIG> anyhoo - off for coffee then to find out what SHMBO wants
[16:15] <Caver> oooh the sense of forboding ...
[16:15] <BenO> I need to buy Dom a beer and tell him it is nothing personal - I've just filed another issue ;)
[16:15] * Simooon (~simon@h196.natout.aau.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:15] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-115-87-205-213.revip4.asianet.co.th) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:15] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@31.6.22.136) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:15] <Caver> lol
[16:16] <Iota> Portsmouth! \o/
[16:16] * OY1R (~Reggy@81.25.184.173) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:16] <OY1R> has anyone tried to run fldigi on the raspberry ?
[16:17] * jamesglanville1 (~james@host-92-27-55-215.static.as13285.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[16:17] <Caver> what is it?
[16:18] <BenO> hamradio app IIRC
[16:18] <Iota> OOoo nice.
[16:18] <Caver> nice
[16:18] <BenO> "A digital modem for radio amateurs" according to goog
[16:18] <BenO> nice :)
[16:19] <Caver> I bought one of the very cheap SDR hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/03/31/1914217/software-defined-radio-for-11 type usb sticks
[16:19] <BenO> We're gonna need that when everyone gets booted off the net for suspected piracy ;)
[16:19] <Caver> but the pi arriving the next day, means I've not actually done anythign about it!
[16:20] <OY1R> yes it's for hamradio digital modes
[16:20] <OY1R> and it has a logger aswell and if if could run on the pi i'd get one asap.
[16:20] <Caver> :)
[16:21] <Caver> I'd imagine it ought to work, as all the source is there
[16:21] <OY1R> would be nice with the pi and my ft-817 in a smallish case, for portable operation
[16:21] <BenO> It should do - as long as the hw can get the current it needs from the pi or a well plug, it should work fine
[16:21] <M0RBD> OY1R: fldigi is in the debian port
[16:22] <M0RBD> I ran it on my N900, albeit you will need a USB stick on the PI as there is no sound in.
[16:22] <OY1R> M0GHY1, indeed
[16:22] <M0RBD> agn agn
[16:23] <BenO> M0RBD, OY1R can I test it with a random usb soundcard then?
[16:23] <OY1R> yea
[16:23] <M0RBD> BenO: yeah should'nt be an issue... as long its uses alsa/oss
[16:23] <BenO> (which I have. I don't have any suitable signal pickup gear though)
[16:23] <M0RBD> I usually use alsa/portaudio
[16:24] <BenO> I'll try to find mine then :)
[16:24] <M0RBD> OY1R: fldiig worked suprisingly well on my old powerbook g3 from 99
[16:24] * koaschten (~koaschten@80.187.201.99) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:25] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@pool-71-189-223-229.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
[16:26] * afief (~quassel@93-172-235-74.bb.netvision.net.il) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:26] * koaschten_ (~koaschten@80.187.201.99) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:26] <BenO> portaudio and fldigi (and rest) are installing happily from repo
[16:27] <OY1R> nice
[16:27] <OY1R> it has to run hamlib aswell
[16:27] <BenO> fltk - I guess it's a gui app then?
[16:27] <OY1R> to control the radio
[16:27] <piless> has openelec been released yet?
[16:27] <OY1R> BenO, yes i lite gui
[16:27] <BenO> yep libhamlib2
[16:27] <OY1R> a lite gui
[16:27] <afief> I'm thinking about buying a RaspberryPi to use as a media center. Does anybody know if it'll be limited to playing certain media formats?
[16:28] <M0RBD> OY1R: its all in the port
[16:28] <OY1R> fl digi, fast light digital modem for hamradio
[16:28] <BenO> fldigi_3.20 is the version in the repos
[16:28] <piless> afief: Depends on whether you like smooth framerates or not
[16:28] * Vlad (~vlad@2001:470:1f09:72b:1234:5678:90ab:cdef) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:28] * shadowe989 (~shadowe98@74-32-106-129.dr01.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:29] <afief> piless: smooth as silk. I read that it plays h.264 at 1080p in hardware, so it should be smooth, but the rest... I have no info
[16:29] * shadowe989 (~shadowe98@74-32-106-129.dr01.rmny.wv.frontiernet.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:30] <BenO> afief, I'd give it some time if all you want is something that works out of the box
[16:30] * koaschten (~koaschten@80.187.201.99) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[16:30] <piless> afief: h/w support for h264 and mpeg2 iirc. Other than that everything else would have to be software
[16:30] <Anppa> oh, they did mpeg2 as well?
[16:30] <Anppa> or... licenced
[16:30] <piless> BenO: Time isn't going to do shit. It's just a matter of the codec licenses
[16:30] * koaschten (~koaschten@80.187.201.99) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:31] * koaschten_ (~koaschten@80.187.201.99) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:31] <afief> BenO: oh I'm planning to tinker a lot, but was considering buying a second one for my parents who don't want to invest over 200$ in a streamer
[16:31] <piless> Anppa: Ah I mean mpeg4
[16:31] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:31] <PiOfCube> Plopper123..
[16:31] <PiOfCube> Lol
[16:32] <Anppa> maybe standard def mpeg2 could be handled unaccelerate
[16:32] <Anppa> +d
[16:32] <BenO> afief, okay - well, the direct hw connection is there, it's just that the plumbing to some of the normal linux subsystems need a bit of work
[16:32] <piless> "the GPU can hardware decode H264, MPEG1/2/4, VC1, AVS, MJPG at 1080p30. It can software (but still vector accelerated) decode VP6, VP7, VP8, RV, Theora, WMV9 at DVD resolutions. We are restricted due to licensing what we can support. We should be able to support VP8, MJPG and Theora, as I believe they are license free."
[16:32] <PiOfCube> Wrong window
[16:32] <piless> But they only own the licenses for mpeg4 and h264
[16:32] <BenO> afief, I think the openelec/xbmc guys are just using the hw, so they should be the first group with something that just works
[16:33] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[16:33] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:33] <piless> openelec is a hell of a lot less bloated than all the linux distros aswell
[16:33] <BenO> OY1R, M0RBD it opens fine and is running through a wizard - do the Station settings matter?
[16:33] <afief> BenO: cool, so the hardware could do mpeg4 and h264, that's all I'll ever need to play I guess(until they release h265)
[16:34] <Anppa> mpeg2 would be nice for dvb
[16:35] <afief> Does anybody use mpeg2 anymore? I transcoded all my DVDs to mkv(h.264 and aac)
[16:35] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56a2.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:35] <Anppa> as i said: dvb
[16:35] <BenO> it should also be able to do AAC but dolby wanted a licence fee of $1 per chip
[16:35] <afief> Anppa: oh sorry my bad
[16:35] <Anppa> maybe we have h264 dvb by the time raspi order backlog clears :D
[16:35] <BenO> lol
[16:36] <OY1R> afief, not really nor
[16:36] <OY1R> no
[16:36] <piless> Anppa: Ahahaha, they haven't even got basic audio working yet
[16:37] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has left #raspberrypi
[16:37] <passstab> Caver, i finished that tut thanks for the help
[16:37] <BenO> OY1R, M0GHY1 I'm getting an "invalid sample rate" error with portaudio, but that could easily be this rubbish usb audio thing I put in
[16:37] <M0RBD> BenO: set it to "native"
[16:38] <M0RBD> 44100 or something, I get the same thing on my PC with some sticks.
[16:41] <zgreg> it's unlikely that SD resolution MPEG-2 works (without CPU overclocking)
[16:41] * Meatballs|Away (Meatballs2@195.110.8.226) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:41] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-121-216-91-70.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Quit: adi??s, amigos!)
[16:42] <BenO> OY1R, M0RBD I can't get the error to go away atm - but the rest of it seems to function fine
[16:42] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:42] <BenO> OY1R, M0RBD I doubt this usb card is worth more than 50p/c depending ;)
[16:42] <M0RBD> hehe
[16:43] <OY1R> if the sound does not work it's 99.2% useless ! :P
[16:43] <M0RBD> BenO: yeah neither is mine... 4x for 1.50USD on ebuya... CE quality :D
[16:43] <piless> Is it a poundland one?
[16:43] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:44] <Hexxeh> hurrah!
[16:45] <Hexxeh> i got a meaningful backtrace from chrome
[16:45] <Hexxeh> http://pastebin.com/WaLdaSqS
[16:45] * capiscuas_ (~capiscuas@ppp-58-8-51-6.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:45] <Caver> passstab, *great*
[16:48] <DaQatz> Hexxeh, how is the rest of chromium coming?
[16:48] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has left #raspberrypi
[16:49] <Hexxeh> DaQatz: new versions of chromium crash
[16:49] <Hexxeh> the rest of the rootfs is ready though
[16:49] <DaQatz> Hmm
[16:49] <DaQatz> Did you get your pi yet?
[16:49] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-115-87-205-213.revip4.asianet.co.th) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[16:50] * Netlynx (~Jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:50] <Hexxeh> yeah
[16:51] <Hexxeh> http://cl.ly/FsP3
[16:51] <DaQatz> Nice
[16:51] <DaQatz> STill waiting for mine
[16:51] <DaQatz> My order was at like 7am
[16:52] <Hexxeh> 7:58am here
[16:52] <DaQatz> ...
[16:52] <DaQatz> Odd
[16:52] <DaQatz> Must be region reasons.
[16:52] <Hexxeh> Yeah
[16:52] <RaTTuS|BIG> 8:19 for me :(
[16:52] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:52] <DaQatz> 7:12
[16:52] <DaQatz> for me to exact
[16:53] * hjubal (~hjubal@89.119.42.67) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] * hjubal (~hjubal@89.119.42.67) Quit (Changing host)
[16:53] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] <OY1R> 14:52
[16:53] <shirro> 6:12
[16:53] * ocs (~ocs@85.20.236.68) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] <DaQatz> shirro, you get yours?
[16:53] <shirro> nope
[16:54] <ocs> hi. can raspberry reproduce 720p h264 ?
[16:54] <DaQatz> Where are you again?
[16:54] <DaQatz> reproduce?
[16:54] <DaQatz> It can play 720p video
[16:54] <ocs> DaQatz: play
[16:54] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/farnell-pis-being-shipped-after-my-order-was-placed/page-3 <- post 41
[16:54] <ocs> but does it play H264 720p?
[16:54] <DaQatz> ocs, it can play 1080p
[16:54] <shirro> australia, element14. not heard anything. no date
[16:55] <DaQatz> ocs Yes
[16:55] * Kushykins (Kranlik@109.73.162.123) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:55] <ocs> DaQatz: I see that. I wonder if h264 at this resolution has been tested
[16:55] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:55] <ocs> mpeg2@720p is different than h264 at the same resolution
[16:56] <BenO> OY1R, M0RBD I had luck running it through aoss (OSS emulation)
[16:56] <DaQatz> ocs I am aware
[16:57] * M0GHY1 (~peterholl@78-86-153-55.zone2.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:58] <BenO> OY1R, M0RBD does that look about right for fldigi? http://imagebin.org/208941
[16:59] <OY1R> it does yes
[16:59] * Kostic (~Kostic@net200-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:59] <BenO> I had to run this soundcard via aoss unfortunately, but it worked after that
[17:00] <BenO> My guess is that this hw I was using is crap :)
[17:00] <OY1R> do you happen to have a CAT enabled radio and a sub<>serial port stick ? :P
[17:01] <BenO> OY1R, I have a lot of tech randomness on my desk, but I don't think I have that ;)
[17:01] <OY1R> hehe
[17:01] * Kostic (~Kostic@net200-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has left #raspberrypi
[17:02] <OY1R> s/sub/usb
[17:02] * Matt remembers when alsa was a new fangled project that didn't work rettibly well
[17:02] <Matt> and OSS was the stable option :)
[17:03] <M0RBD> OY1R: there is a UART on the board, so you could use that.
[17:03] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:04] * techman2 (~nobody@121.209.128.126) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:07] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:08] * gabriel9|work (~quassel@92.241.143.37) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:08] * techman2 (~nobody@121.209.128.126) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:09] <Caver> I wonder how well the Pi will work with JACK and the studio versions
[17:09] <Caver> time will tell
[17:10] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-241-80.telstraclear.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:17] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:17] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-232-197.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:19] <Hexxeh> hmm, i wonder
[17:19] <Hexxeh> that guy has compiled chromium
[17:19] <Hexxeh> but he did it on arm boards with 1gb ram didn't he?
[17:20] <shirro> yes
[17:20] <Hexxeh> i thought chromium needed a minimum of like 2gb or so to link
[17:20] <shirro> he might have swap. these things have sata
[17:20] <Hexxeh> i wonder if he'll let me borrow access to try building chromium
[17:20] <hotwings> [07:34:34] <Anppa> maybe we have h264 dvb by the time raspi order backlog clears :D <-- where do you live? here in the us, where we are behind everyone in dvb-*, a lot has already been moved to h264
[17:21] <haltdef> all non-cable HD in the UK is h.264
[17:21] <haltdef> think new zealand even has some SD h.264
[17:22] <BenO> UK Freeview (non-hd) is MPEG-2 still
[17:22] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:23] <M0RBD> I dont even have a TV
[17:23] <M0RBD> :D
[17:23] <shirro> Hexxeh: he might have a spare http://home.comcast.net/~michael.p.thompson/rpi/rpi_debian_build_cluster.jpg
[17:24] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:25] <M0RBD> shirro: heh
[17:25] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:26] * Lerc_ (~Lerc@121-74-232-197.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:28] * Kushykins (Kranlik@109.73.162.123) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:28] * techman2 (~nobody@121.209.128.126) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:28] * koaschten (~koaschten@80.187.201.99) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[17:29] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-232-197.telstraclear.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[17:29] * Lerc_ is now known as Lerc
[17:30] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] * techman2 (~nobody@121.209.128.126) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:34] <Matt> "oops"
[17:34] <Matt> this is our local news channel:
[17:34] <Matt> http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/1165073--chch-hamiltonmorning-news-show-on-hamilton-s-chch-interrupted-by-porn-movie?bn=1
[17:35] <BenO> was it any good?
[17:35] <Matt> lol - I have no idea
[17:35] <piless> Are we back to posting non-pi stuff?
[17:35] <Matt> given I don't usually watch CHCH in the morning
[17:35] <Drazyl> piless not sure it ever stopped
[17:36] <piless> Drazyl: In that case, here's some boobys http://img.earthshots.org/2008/600/074.jpg
[17:37] <piless> or boobies
[17:37] <Drazyl> nice pair!
[17:37] * BjornW (~bjorn@miniski.xs4all.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:37] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:37] <shirro> "CHCH is owned by Channel Zero, which operates several adult-movie services."
[17:37] <piless> moar, http://images.mudfooted.com/blue-footed-booby-dance.jpg
[17:39] <piless> so hot http://cache2.artprintimages.com/lrg/29/2961/GHFQD00Z.jpg
[17:39] * _sundar_ (~sundar@110.234.156.82) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:39] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-58-165-20-44.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:39] <Caver> perv!
[17:40] <piless> it's not pervy if you're wearing sunglasses
[17:41] <ReggieUK> piless, shirro etc. sort it out!
[17:42] <piless> ReggieUK: Careful you, or I'll start posting some lettuce
[17:42] <piless> Besides, everyone loves some boobies.
[17:42] <piless> How can you not love their little blue feet?
[17:42] <ReggieUK> careful you or I'll remind ukscone etc. that you're already on a warning for inappropriate language
[17:43] <piless> ReggieUK: Go for it.
[17:43] <ReggieUK> I Could care less if they're avian or not :)
[17:43] <piless> racist
[17:43] <Drazyl> could care less?
[17:43] * acperkins (~acperkins@pdpc/supporter/student/acperkins) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[17:43] <ReggieUK> that would be speciesist if I hated avians
[17:44] * Veryevil (~Veryevil@83.166.186.218) Quit ()
[17:44] <passstab> what do people think of systemd vs upstart?
[17:44] <shirro> At the risk of annoying a mod for OT. If parent company runs porn services and they share a playout center they are probably asking for trouble. A couple of broadcaster launched a shared service here a year or so ago and there were lots of cock ups (though no actual cocks thankfully)
[17:45] <Drazyl> shirro you just need to recommend they monitor the tx with a r-pi and it's on topic
[17:45] <ukscone> piless: watch it
[17:45] <piless> shirro: vertical intergration
[17:45] <piless> ukscone: Watch what? I haven't done anything wrong.
[17:45] <piless> ReggieUK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
[17:46] <ukscone> piless: we have a new op who actually knows what he is doing and is old skool so will kb you at the drop of a hat
[17:46] <piless> ukscone: ... Please tell me what I've done wrong sir!
[17:46] <ukscone> piless: you are pushing buttons and being a smartalec
[17:47] <piless> ...
[17:47] <passstab> piless, we should make a channel #RPIanarchy
[17:48] <piless> ukscone: No seriously, what have I done wrong?!
[17:48] * M0GHY (~peterholl@188.65.96.15) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:48] <piless> ukscone: Did you actually check these links? Because they're of birds!
[17:48] <ukscone> i'm sure they are but this isn't a twitchers channel so have no place in here
[17:49] * M0RBD wonders if any ordering the PI will get the t-shirt but not the PI :D
[17:49] <piless> a what?
[17:49] <ukscone> and you are trying to get a reaction from people well you succeeded and my channeel my rules
[17:49] <Drazyl> bird watcher
[17:49] <Matt> twitchers - bird watchers
[17:49] <ollymorfik_> wish granted
[17:50] <shirro> I still want a t-shirt that says "I ordered a Pi and all I got was this $%^#&%# t-shirt"
[17:50] <piless> Wow seriously??? For parodying Matt? Seriously? And you single out me?
[17:50] * passstab kicks ukscone for troll feeding
[17:51] <piless> Oh fuck this. I'm no troll. Go ahead ban me.
[17:51] * piless (~piless@94.196.209.123.threembb.co.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[17:51] * hugh (~textual@87.83.30.51) Quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
[17:51] <traeak> self kic
[17:51] <traeak> k
[17:51] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:52] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:52] <BenO> Troll: "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
[17:52] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:52] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:52] <Matt> cam.ac.uk! :)
[17:52] <Matt> although I don't recognice csx
[17:52] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:53] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[17:53] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
[17:55] <BenO> Matt, Probably part of the eSciencey bit :)
[17:56] <Matt> quite probably
[17:56] <Matt> my bro was at st.johns
[17:57] <Matt> and I had a few friends at clare when I was at uni
[17:57] <ukscone> Matt part of the UCS part iirc
[17:57] <BenO> Matt, Cool - I don't know many of the colleges (mainly their bars) ;)
[17:58] <Matt> hehe
[17:58] <Matt> I didn't get to see much of cam, cause I was at uni in manchester
[17:58] * diplo (~diplo@cpc2-trow1-0-0-cust1447.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:58] <ukscone> the mirror seervers are on csx
[17:58] <BenO> I do know the Panton Arms pretty well though ;)
[17:58] <ukscone> http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/support/unix-support/nfs-server
[17:58] * setkeh (~setkeh@CPE-58-165-20-44.vic.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[17:58] <traeak> ugh nfs with all its warts
[17:58] <Matt> my bro's finished his undergrad and left cam now
[17:59] * NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:59] <Matt> now he's at oxford doing a d.phil
[17:59] <ukscone> i had a few friends who were techs in cavendish physics part and a few in the 80s in computing there but i knew more ppl at oxford
[17:59] <BenO> sorry jamesglanville, just reverse engineering where you are logging in from ;)
[17:59] * grimboy (~grimboy@78-86-152-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:59] * ocs (~ocs@85.20.236.68) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:59] <BenO> Matt, What in?
[18:00] <BenO> ukscone, Nice :)
[18:00] <Matt> the effect of nuclear particles on materials
[18:01] <BenO> Matt, cool - Materials Centre or up north at the accelerator?
[18:02] <Matt> I'd have to ask :)
[18:02] <Matt> I know he spends most of his day at an electron microscope
[18:02] <traeak> materials science
[18:02] <BenO> yep
[18:02] <BenO> Horrible building ;) but a nice park beside it
[18:04] <BenO> Annnyway, probably should go back on topic - has anyone looked at FB acceleration yet?
[18:04] <Matt> BenO: hot topic
[18:05] <friggle> BenO: don't think anyone has committed to trying to use the dma engines for an xorg driver
[18:05] <friggle> BenO: various people looking at enabling GLES backends for Gtk/Qt, plus DirectFB support as an alternative
[18:05] <ReggieUK> BenO, for what purpose?
[18:05] <ReggieUK> Personally I'd like to see a less is more approach
[18:05] <ReggieUK> I don't necessarily need X etc.
[18:06] <friggle> BenO: Dom posted the fb kernel driver that supported DMA engines http://pastebin.com/A0rvasgN
[18:06] <friggle> BenO: but basically no application on earth calls those functions
[18:06] <friggle> DJWillis said he might take a look at some optimised assembly reoutines or using the DMA engines in an xorg-fbdev fork
[18:06] <ReggieUK> apart from fbset?
[18:07] <friggle> ReggieUK: I mean the blitting functions etc
[18:07] <BenO> friggle, Cool - I think that GLES bkend might be quite interesting to see but I think that the xorg route has to be followed really :(
[18:08] <ReggieUK> just thinking mplayer etc. might play nicer with an fb driver and no X etc. cluttering things up and wasting processes?
[18:09] <Hexxeh> has anyone tried to use that debian armhf repo?
[18:09] <Hexxeh> getting errors saying the Packages file is corrupt
[18:10] <BenO> ReggieUK, as a player, sure - but I hope that this bit of kit would be nice to hand to kids to program on - scratch, SDL, even Flixel would benefit hugely from blitting/shared mem routines
[18:10] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:10] <BenO> Hexxeh, haven't tried to debootstrap yet
[18:10] <Hexxeh> BenO: trying it now, not having much luck
[18:11] <BenO> :( someone needs to give the guy more of whatever he's using to stay awake
[18:12] <BenO> He may have been up for 72 hrs straight, but fix it! ;)
[18:12] <ReggieUK> BenO, oh sure, I appreciate that too, just thinking out loud for projects where every last cycle is important and given it's an embedded device it would be nice for 'the kids' to know that sometimes you don't have all of the shiny pretty stuff, you have to build from the ground up
[18:13] <ReggieUK> even commercial products that use linux don't necessarily have X but are still very feature rich (or could be if the mfrs put the extra effort in)
[18:14] <cjbaird> I just realized something: I don't think I've seen anyone using an RPi with /wireless/ HID usb devices. There'll certainly be less cable pain with a wireless keyboard and mouse...
[18:14] <ReggieUK> took leapfrog 3 years to finally push out a real alsa driver
[18:14] <Hexxeh> cjbaird: I do
[18:15] <cjbaird> H: but have you posted any photos to impress people? :)
[18:15] <Hexxeh> I'll take one now, sec.
[18:15] <ReggieUK> still using a FB driver and not much else (apart from some gles and even that I'm not sure if they use it in their stuff)
[18:15] <ReggieUK> I was thinking that bluetooth adapter might be a really good use of resources on a pi
[18:16] <cjbaird> That's true..
[18:16] * FZombie (~STN@pdpc/supporter/student/GPLGeek) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:16] <ReggieUK> keyboard/mouse, gps, phones, serial, wiimotes ps3 controllers etc?
[18:17] <BenO> ReggieUK, I think at the moment, this is a cool thing to use to run through GLES and FB tutorials and the like
[18:17] <ReggieUK> upto 7 devices connected to a bluetooth dongle I believe
[18:17] <BenO> it's very instructive to show people that they can poke (or should that be POKE) the buffer memory :)
[18:17] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-76-220-195-16.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:17] <ReggieUK> printers
[18:18] <cjbaird> And iirc, you'll only need the one bluetooth receiver for any number of bluetooth devices, (unlike with needing a seperate usb dongle for the longtech keyboard, mouse, ..)
[18:18] <Hexxeh> the problem with bluetooth is pairing
[18:18] <ReggieUK> is anyone aware of this website?
[18:18] <traeak> with a model 'a' i would seriously consider going full bootoof
[18:18] <ReggieUK> http://www.lazyfoo.net/SDL_tutorials/
[18:18] <Hexxeh> that's why i just went for a keyboard/mouse that shared a receiver
[18:18] <traeak> and using bootoof for network as well
[18:18] <ReggieUK> I've been messing with bluetooth for a while now
[18:18] <ReggieUK> it's been mostly stable
[18:19] <zgreg> ReggieUK: maybe pygame is a better environment for playing around
[18:19] <ReggieUK> there are odd things like wiimotes but that's not bluetooth that's the wiimote side of things
[18:19] <cjbaird> Power-over-Ethernet to maybe eliminate the microusb power port...
[18:19] <Hexxeh> cjbaird: Warning, huge image: http://cl.ly/Fyw8
[18:19] <traeak> ReggieUK: can you use bootoof at hi speed at the same time as using a slow device ?
[18:19] <ReggieUK> zgreg, probably, again though, it doesn't hurt to have different sources for information
[18:20] <ReggieUK> bootoof?
[18:20] <Hexxeh> bluetooth :P
[18:20] <ReggieUK> ha :D
[18:20] <ReggieUK> sorry I should've seen that
[18:20] <BenO> zgreg, ReggieUK pygame is a great starter, but I think the build available on the debian img is ancient. There are wiki'd steps to getting a new version on it
[18:20] <ReggieUK> I read it as boot oof
[18:20] <cjbaird> H: that's what I was originally thinking..
[18:20] <Hexxeh> the only cables i have are HDMI and power, works good
[18:21] <Hexxeh> that said, i went out of my way to find tiny USB dongles :P
[18:21] <ReggieUK> traeak, I have no idea
[18:21] <BenO> ReggieUK, The lazyfoo tutorials are good :) I think NeHe also ported (or had ported) his tutorials to GLES too
[18:21] <Hexxeh> keyboard and mouse with the dongle were like ??11, wifi dongle was ??7
[18:21] <zgreg> NeHe? oh my NeHe's opengl tutorials are really bad :D
[18:21] <ReggieUK> you can also setup a bridged network with bluetooth
[18:21] <zgreg> they're bad, and really really outdated
[18:22] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@199.119.232.1) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:22] <BenO> zgreg, that why I said "ported" :)
[18:22] <traeak> ReggieUK: i think that's bluetooth v2.0 + EDR
[18:22] <cjbaird> An intention here is to go the X Terminal client route, so I'll be stucking with wired networking. :)
[18:22] <ReggieUK> not saying it's going to get fast speeds but we're talking about learning here and projects that require handful of bytes over tcp/ip would be ideally suited to a cheap blueooth network
[18:22] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:23] <Hexxeh> It's surprising how much the RPi can keep up in terms of UI when you're not using that slow framebuffer
[18:23] <mjr> traeak, no, bt networking can be done with 1.x. Slow, of course, as ReggieUK said.
[18:23] <traeak> http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/bluetooth-2-0-edr.html
[18:23] <Hexxeh> There's a guy from Thailand using one of my Pi's remotely, I had a quick look at his VNC session and it was pretty speedy
[18:23] <ReggieUK> at some point when I get a pi I'll look at getting gmenu2x running on the pi
[18:23] <mjr> and wlan will probably be easier to set up too
[18:23] <BenO> Hexxeh, I've been using X forwarding and that's been pretty nice :)
[18:24] <zgreg> BenO: do you mean http://nehe.gamedev.net/tutorial/ios_lesson_02__first_triangle/50001/?
[18:24] <traeak> the EDR part is a special high speed mode of bluetooth specifically designed for networking
[18:24] <cjbaird> Hmm.. stereo audio port ... that could be connected up to a oscilloscope in X-Y mode...
[18:24] <zgreg> there are much better tutorials for that on the net
[18:24] <traeak> of course using bt3 + HS would probably be preferable
[18:24] <traeak> just curious is anyone has screwed with these
[18:24] <mjr> traeak, yeah, sure it's nice to _have_ but not mandatory ;)
[18:24] <BenO> zgreg, I think it would be worth drawing up a list of good tutorial sites on the wiki for newbs
[18:25] <traeak> mjr: just curious if it even *works* and can work simultaneously with a mouse/keyboard/etc
[18:25] <mjr> I did have a bluetooth network at one time between my openmoko gta01 and my desktop for testing
[18:25] <zgreg> http://www.arcsynthesis.org/gltut/index.html is not specific to opengl es, but at least it does teach more than the absolute basics and it also tells a lot about the concepts behind opengl
[18:25] <mjr> even ran openoffice over it through X for shits and giggles, it wasn't as bad as you might think ;)
[18:25] <BenO> zgreg, sweet, thanks :)
[18:25] <traeak> bt3 + HS supposedly does 24MB/s
[18:25] <mjr> and that was bluetooth 1.x,
[18:25] <traeak> Mbit i mean
[18:25] <traeak> sure
[18:26] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-06.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[18:26] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[18:26] <traeak> will have to check this asus router with usb to see if it can support a bt3 dongle properly
[18:26] <traeak> what fun
[18:26] <mjr> that +HS bit uses wifi for data transfer so it's not "just" bluetooth anymore
[18:27] <traeak> mjr: but still it allows a single USB port to do almost everything
[18:27] <ReggieUK> that's my point about bluetooth being very useful with a pi
[18:27] <mjr> ah, yes, well. I'm not actually sure how that works, if they sell standalone dongles for that
[18:27] <mjr> but sure
[18:28] <traeak> looks like under 3USD for one of those dongles at dealextreme
[18:28] <traeak> i mean 6USD
[18:28] <traeak> for bt3 + HS at deal extreme
[18:28] <traeak> 3 of them pop up right awa
[18:28] <Matt> I have an elcheapo bluetooth dongle that mostly works fine
[18:28] <Matt> except the MAC is 00:00:00:00:00
[18:28] <traeak> yeah
[18:28] <traeak> they didn't pay for a license
[18:29] <ReggieUK> look for an eeprom, or space on teh board for an eeprom
[18:29] <ReggieUK> or if it's a CSR chip you might be able to reprogram it with a mac address
[18:29] <Matt> well given that it works just fine for what I use it for, I've never felt the need to :)
[18:29] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host139-18-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:30] <ReggieUK> he no worries :)
[18:30] <mjr> I wouldn't actually be sure if those dongles actually implement the HS part or if they just market it as "compliant" for the driver being able to hand off the transfer to a separate piece of wifi equipment. Just to be cynical.
[18:30] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:30] <zgreg> do these BT 3.0+HS dongles include an actual wifi radio?
[18:30] <mjr> zgreg, semi-echo
[18:30] <zgreg> I can't imagine that for < 6 USD
[18:30] <mjr> yeah
[18:30] <traeak> might be a good use for a pogoplug...bluetooth 3.0+HS network router
[18:31] <ReggieUK> there are some of the cheap devices out there, like prolific based usb to serial adapters on ebay, just missing an eeprom to have them wake up with default com ports etc.
[18:31] <mjr> and frankly, if they _had_ the wifi radio, they'd probably expose that as well because hey, it's a big selling point
[18:31] <zgreg> maybe the HS part is implemented in drivers only and requires a wifi device on the host, or something like that
[18:31] <mjr> expose and advertise
[18:31] <mjr> zgreg, indeed that's my guess
[18:32] <zgreg> "USB Bluetooth 3.0 HS + WLAN Combo Adapter"
[18:32] <zgreg> heh
[18:32] <mjr> http://cirago.com/wordpress/products/bluetoothadapters/usb-mini-bluetooth-3-0-high-speed-adapter/
[18:32] <mjr> oh, you found one too :]
[18:32] <zgreg> well, here it's pretty clear wifi is included
[18:32] <ReggieUK> bbiab
[18:33] <mjr> note that I have _no_ idea about linux support for the linked adapter, just linked it for comparison as a combo adapter
[18:33] <traeak> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-bluetooth-v3-0-usb-2-0-dongle-71248?item=2
[18:36] * BjornW (~bjorn@miniski.xs4all.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:36] <mjr> traeak, yeah that probably only does the bt signaling side. Which, I should say, is sufficient for many uses, but obviously will require a bt access point for network access.
[18:37] <zgreg> why would you want to use bluetooth for high-speed networking anyway?
[18:37] <traeak> mjr: checking to see if my pogoplug has packages for this
[18:37] <zgreg> just use wifi
[18:37] <traeak> zgreg: model 'a'
[18:38] <zgreg> well, use one of those combo bt+wifi adapters, then! :)
[18:38] <mjr> You don't really want to. Just pointing out that you can make do with it if you're cheap but have a handy place to put another bt adapter ;]
[18:39] <traeak> at that point something like a mele a1000 ends up cheaper than an rpi
[18:41] <mjr> doesn't seem to have wifi or bluetooth on board either ;]
[18:42] <mjr> but hey, it's an interesting box though
[18:42] <traeak> mele a1000 has 802.11
[18:42] <traeak> onboard
[18:42] <traeak> no bluetooth, no
[18:43] <mjr> Hmh. Oh, the dealextreme $100 mele package does say 802.11. The aliexpress $70 thing without remote control and jazz doesn't though. Ah well.
[18:45] <mjr> anyway, it is interesting, not least because it has the allwinner a10 which is somewhat more powerful than the pi, and happens to sport the mali 400 gpu that is being actively reverse-engineered (disclaimers about no usable free driver guarantees apply)
[18:46] <Hexxeh> ukscone: grats on the pi arriving :P
[18:47] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-76-220-195-16.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[18:49] <ukscone> I have PI!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
[18:49] <BenO> Congrats!!
[18:50] <mozzwald> ukscone: now that you have a piece of the pi, test out the usb docking station for me :)
[18:52] * wry (~wry@c-71-205-142-149.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:53] <ukscone> mozzwald: yup
[18:54] <ukscone> i need to get a few things from the store first and have to wait in for a delivery due at 2pm but then it's all systems go
[18:56] <M0RBD> mjr: apparently the a10 goes for $15
[18:56] <traeak> the a10 soc you mean ?
[18:57] <traeak> 7USD for the a10 in mass volume
[18:57] <traeak> not sure about lower volume of course
[18:57] <M0RBD> http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/allwinner_a10_gplcompliant_computer_15
[18:58] <M0RBD> http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/orders/
[18:59] <traeak> M0RBD: there's a bt of blow-hard for taht. if they get an ungodly number of orders then its that cheap
[18:59] <BenO> ukscone, I see you are fighting your cats for the pi ;)
[18:59] <ukscone> BenO: been fighting george for my desk for the last few days now gizmo is getting in on the act now i have the raspi on it
[19:00] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:00] <M0RBD> traeak: true... but even at $41 its a quite low price.
[19:00] <traeak> M0RBD: considering the extra ram and the native SATA-2 ...
[19:00] * setkeh` (~setkeh@CPE-58-165-20-44.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:00] <BenO> ukscone, heh, the joy of cats and warm devices, especially devices that seem to occupy your attention ;)
[19:01] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:01] <Matt> lunchtime :)
[19:03] <zgreg> M0RBD: not that stupid vaporware agaibn
[19:04] * acperkins (~acperkins@188-222-25-246.zone13.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:04] <M0RBD> zgreg: I had a suspiction
[19:04] * acperkins (~acperkins@188-222-25-246.zone13.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Changing host)
[19:04] * acperkins (~acperkins@pdpc/supporter/student/acperkins) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:04] <zgreg> and no, it does not go for $15, and it never will
[19:04] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:04] * stuk_gen (~quassel@151.65.14.50) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:04] <zgreg> that's the cost of the BOM, and I guess raspberry pi model a BOM is also about $15
[19:05] <traeak> there is that fun with codec licensing
[19:05] <M0RBD> they claim the price is at $41
[19:05] <traeak> it seems allwinner is assisting them as well
[19:05] <traeak> so not quite as vaporous as seemed before
[19:06] <zgreg> traeak: well, check out the news page (no news for months)
[19:07] * mrcan_ (~mrcan@95.8.173.38) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:07] <traeak> zgreg: active forums and mailng list
[19:07] <zgreg> plus, it's just one lone nerd working on the project
[19:09] * M0RBD suspects he still lives with mum and dad.
[19:09] <Matt> not necessarily anything wrong with that
[19:09] * mrcan__ (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:10] <M0RBD> Well if you're 35+
[19:10] <M0RBD> :D
[19:10] <cjbaird> I've known more than one public project that stalled because the guy involved seperated from his girlfriend/wife. :)
[19:10] * setkeh` (~setkeh@CPE-58-165-20-44.vic.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[19:10] <M0RBD> cjbaird: me too..
[19:11] <traeak> regardless, you'll see set top boxes, etc based on the a10 coming out everything
[19:11] <traeak> everwhere
[19:11] <zgreg> moreover, the rhombus-tech will be pretty useless as-is
[19:11] * mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:11] <traeak> so it's not just the rhombust guys
[19:11] <zgreg> *board
[19:11] <cjbaird> Actually, I would be included in that.. I was setting up a wireless mesh freenet in a place called Armidale, ..but I had to leave :(
[19:11] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:11] <zgreg> the board requires some adapter mainboard for actual connectors
[19:12] <zgreg> which of course means additional costs
[19:12] * mrcan_ (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:12] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:12] <cjbaird> There's also another jerk, Dontronics, who keeps posting (on Usenet and ElecEng forums) about how /he's/ selling a cheaper RaspberryPi Killer..
[19:13] <ReggieUK> There's a few about
[19:13] <zgreg> cjbaird: heh, funny
[19:13] <cjbaird> Of course, the moment the CE and other trouble was revealed, he was spreading the FUD good and thick within the hour..
[19:13] <Matt> there's nothing technically amazing about the pi
[19:13] <zgreg> cjbaird: got an URL for me?
[19:13] <Matt> it's more everything around the pi that's the value add
[19:13] <zgreg> I'd like to read about that :D
[19:14] <Matt> price, community, etc
[19:14] <traeak> for embedded use the rpi will probably rule for a while
[19:14] <des2> The PI just occupies a unique price/size/power point.
[19:14] <ReggieUK> foundation and price point are the killers for me
[19:14] <Matt> the whole teching thingy
[19:14] <cjbaird> Naturally, when the RPi actually started shipping.... not a peep from his 'latest omg i'm not biased at all Raspberry Pi News' posts...
[19:14] <traeak> it's the mini computer part that will have some competition
[19:14] <zgreg> Matt: indeed, the foundation actually had to compromise a lot to get to the price point
[19:14] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:14] <cjbaird> Dontronics also currently goes on about 'The latest Arduino Killer' (..that he just happens to plan selling..)
[19:15] <zgreg> Matt: voltage regulation, audio output, SD interface, etc.
[19:15] <Matt> yup
[19:15] <traeak> but yeah for that $70 the mele has sata and 802.11, 3 usb and VGA
[19:16] <zgreg> I don't think it's likely that raspberry pi is an unsustainable business
[19:16] <zgreg> I remember olimex pissing about that
[19:17] <zgreg> that in fact, the foundation is losing money on every pi sold
[19:17] <ReggieUK> broadcom took a small gamble on 10k units, they've undoubtedly got a win here, it's got them massive amounts of direct and indirect good free advertising
[19:17] <traeak> yup and several 100k's of orders
[19:17] <hotwings> whether or not rpi is sustainable has yet to be seen.
[19:17] <ReggieUK> but ultimately teh scene wins too because we get to keep on getting cheap ass dev boards
[19:17] <Matt> yeah
[19:17] <cjbaird> zgreg: https://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/msg/c2aaee0fe0e15d10 ... https://groups.google.com/group/aus.electronics/msg/23374932859c1d4c .. https://groups.google.com/group/aus.electronics/msg/1fa36a3ec86d8e88 ...and so on
[19:18] <des2> Yes, now even more people can know and hate Broadcom's secrecy.
[19:18] * rubentje1991 (~ruben@109.132.189.30) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:19] <zgreg> hotwings: yes, but that's not impossible at all (unlike some people say...), especially at the extreme volume
[19:19] * Triamis (~Mikoto@31.205.59.20) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:20] * rubentje1991 (~ruben@109.132.189.30) has left #raspberrypi
[19:21] <traeak> right now it seems like the lima (mali) driver guys are in the middle of writing a shader compiler
[19:21] <M0RBD> cjbaird: charming chap.
[19:21] <M0RBD> :D
[19:23] <cjbaird> M0RBD: he was actually Australia first spammer back in 1994... He totally didn't give a shit that a lot of us reading aus.electronics were on non-commerical/government/business networks at the time, mostly long-distance $10/MB email-only links..
[19:23] <ReggieUK> funnily enough, some of us have sat here and watched all the complainers and blow-hards with 'killer' boards spout off constantly attacking the pi, so I understand where cjbaird is coming from
[19:23] <hotwings> zgreg - sustainability doesnt only depend on being able to pay the bills. it also has a lot to do with how the business is being run. whether or not the people calling the shots at the foundation will succeed in business has yet to be seen as well
[19:23] <M0RBD> cjbaird: argh.. is he related to the SORBS guy
[19:24] <M0RBD> s/guy/woman/g
[19:24] <M0RBD> :D
[19:25] <M0RBD> Anyway... From the ice age to dole age there is one but one concern I have just discovered.... Some girls are bigger than other...
[19:25] <zgreg> hotwings, yes, but I was mostly talking about basic manufacturing costs vs. the 25/35 USD price point
[19:26] <hotwings> ahh gotcha. component costs fluctuate and im not sure how much wiggle room there is in the price point for that
[19:26] <traeak> no reason they have to keep the price fixed is there?
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[19:28] <hotwings> nope
[19:28] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:28] <hotwings> if they cant sustain those price points theyll have no choice but to make adjustments
[19:28] * Tachyon` (hideki@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust905.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:28] <cjbaird> I might mention how much I'd personally be prepared to pay for a RPi ...but that wouldn't be a smart thing to do. :)
[19:28] <hotwings> hopefully they really did their homework and planned accordingly but theres no way we'll know the answer to that so
[19:29] <_av500_> prices for stuff like that go down usually
[19:29] * FZombie (~STN@pdpc/supporter/student/GPLGeek) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:29] <_av500_> there are 55$ android tablets now
[19:29] <traeak> with 100k's of orders they should
[19:29] <_av500_> so a $35 rpi is doable
[19:30] * ragna (~ragna@e180059248.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[19:30] <traeak> except for the dumb codecs
[19:30] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:31] <hotwings> 100k is not exactly a large order in terms of electronics
[19:31] <hotwings> there are components where the minimum order is in the millions
[19:32] <hotwings> also, trying to compare a $55 android tablet to a $35 rpi is apples & oranges in a major way
[19:32] * acperkins (~acperkins@pdpc/supporter/student/acperkins) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[19:32] <zgreg> hotwings: well, the point is, some people are shouting that it's simply completely impossible to get down to 35 USD for such a board (one guy from olimex, for instance)
[19:33] <_av500_> hotwings: why?
[19:33] <traeak> zgreg: not if you want reasonable profits i'm sure
[19:33] <zgreg> hotwings: and I say, that's BS, especially if you look at how simplified the design of the board is, and what compromises they made
[19:34] <hotwings> _av500_ - the sheer quantities arent even close. then when you factor in purchase agreements, production agreements, etc. you get a $55 android tablet
[19:35] <hotwings> zgreg - the foundation doesnt even know if their product is sustainable and they have the exact numbers so i dont see how anyone else could know its impossible
[19:36] * capiscuas_ (~capiscuas@ppp-58-8-51-6.revip2.asianet.co.th) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:36] <des2> No one can know if there will be enough interest in the PI to keep producing it a year from now.
[19:36] <des2> 100,000 orders can just be a fad.
[19:36] <_av500_> hotwings: the sheer quantities you need are not that big
[19:36] <des2> Lots of fads die out.
[19:37] <_av500_> and the rpi pcb is dead simple
[19:37] <_av500_> i looked at the schematics today
[19:37] <M0RBD> _av500_: expect chinese copies at $5 :D
[19:37] <_av500_> so 35$ is quite reasonable
[19:38] <_av500_> M0RBD: not quite
[19:38] <des2> The Aduino is about $35, Arduino chinese clones about $18.
[19:38] <des2> Not a lot of room for cheaper clones in the RPi.
[19:38] <des2> I'm expect more $50 clones that are better.
[19:38] <cjbaird> I wouldn't be surprised that Certain People lobby the Government claiming that the foundation is exploiting the charity clause to be 'anti competitive' on the market. ("They're illegally getting the components below cost that other businesses have to pay by claming they're a Charity...")
[19:39] <hotwings> _av500_ - the bigger the component orders, the bigger the discount. its a lot easier for a company with millions in their budget to negotiate a $55 android tablet in large quantities than it is for the foundation to do a $35 rpi in limited quantity single runs
[19:39] <_av500_> you dont need millions
[19:39] <M0RBD> ops I meant 15
[19:39] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:40] <hotwings> _av500_ - youre missing the point about why a $55 android tablet and a $35 rpi have thing in common and cant be compared
[19:40] <hotwings> *nothing
[19:40] <_av500_> I know the difference and what they have in common
[19:40] <hotwings> they dont have anything in common.
[19:41] <_av500_> take an android tablet and remove almost anything
[19:41] <_av500_> you end up with PCB and CPU
[19:41] <_av500_> and 2 other chips
[19:41] <_av500_> no case
[19:41] <_av500_> no battery
[19:41] <_av500_> no lcd
[19:41] <hotwings> oh man, you really dont get it do you?
[19:41] <_av500_> yes, I am stupid
[19:42] <hotwings> its not about being stupid or not
[19:42] <_av500_> but again, getting $35 from china for the r-pi is nothing special
[19:42] * tero (~tne@86.58.60.109) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:42] <_av500_> geting a $35 price
[19:42] <hotwings> you are over-simplifying things to an extreme
[19:42] <_av500_> so? eben is putting $100 into each rpi or what?
[19:43] <hotwings> theres absolutely nothing about a $55 android tablet that says a $35 rpi is no problem. you cant ignore everything except the fact both have a cpu and pcb
[19:43] * mkopack (~mkopack@12.177.253.250) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:43] <mkopack> Hey gang
[19:43] <_av500_> I cannot share a BOM with you, so you have to trust me on that
[19:43] <hotwings> hi mkopack
[19:44] <_av500_> or not
[19:44] <mkopack> Any new news?
[19:44] <mkopack> I see my Newark status changed to July 17
[19:45] * JMNUTS (~macbook@89.152.242.65) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:45] <mkopack> And saw the statement that all open orders would be fulfilled by end of June... Nice!
[19:45] <zgreg> hotwings: yes, but it's not like it's clearly impossible, as some people say
[19:45] <traeak> hmmm
[19:46] <hotwings> _av500_ - why do you think you can so easily determine whats possible and what isnt without knowing _anything_ about purchase requirements, purchase agreements, production agreements, the terms of the negotiated pricing, etc etc etc?
[19:46] <traeak> so from the us orders from newark.com or something?
[19:46] * Veryevil (~Veryevil@5aced5a8.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] <mkopack> Traeak that is all farnell orders
[19:47] <_av500_> hotwings: and how do you conclude that I do not know that?
[19:47] <hotwings> zgreg - anyone who thinks they know for certain one way or the other doesnt know what theyre talking about. the only facts we have so far is that the foundation has managed to bring a product to market at advertised price. that proves its possible, at least this time
[19:47] * antenagora (~antenagor@host71-183-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:48] <_av500_> hotwings: have seen quite a few android tablet bill of materials
[19:48] <_av500_> +I
[19:48] <traeak> mkopack: looks like i'm still aug 16th...checked for the first time
[19:48] <_av500_> and I know what is coming from china
[19:49] <hotwings> _av500_ - lets remove the guessing.. have you seen all the foundations agreements? do you _know_ all their costs/pricing?
[19:49] <_av500_> nope
[19:49] <_av500_> what for?
[19:49] <_av500_> if you see a GM and your work for Chrysler, would you be able to judge a price?
[19:50] <tero> lol --> http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3910804_460s_v1.jpg
[19:50] <tero> oops sorry wrong channel
[19:50] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[19:50] * Netlynx (~Jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[19:50] <hotwings> so you basically know nothing about any of the details of producing rpis... so why would you think you know anything about how it compares to anything else? especially other products which no doubt have completely different agreement models
[19:50] <des2> If Farnell and RS are selling something for $35 you can safely assume it's costing them less than that.
[19:50] <_av500_> indeed
[19:51] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has left #raspberrypi
[19:51] <_av500_> and I know what it would cost my company to make an r-pi
[19:51] * MuNk (~NOP@2001:470:1f09:1ec1:210:75ff:fe1a:bdb0) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:51] <_av500_> so I can guess
[19:51] <hotwings> no you dont
[19:51] <_av500_> ok
[19:51] <_av500_> end of discussion
[19:51] <des2> So what's your guess ?
[19:52] <hotwings> [10:48:06] <hotwings> _av500_ - lets remove the guessing.. have you seen all the foundations agreements? do you _know_ all their costs/pricing?
[19:52] <hotwings> [10:48:10] <_av500_> nope
[19:52] <PiOfCube> There are many people now thinking the R-Pi is a Chinese device... as in designed and built by a Chinese company and forget/don't realise that the foundation just contracted a factory in China to make them... That makes a big difference for some aspects of the whole thing.
[19:52] <_av500_> desing in the west and manufacture in china is pretty common
[19:52] <_av500_> even apple does it
[19:53] <des2> Basically all the Foundations's labot is provided gratis from the point fo view of the PI's material cost
[19:53] <des2> labor
[19:53] <traeak> contracted only the first 10k from china
[19:53] <traeak> i guess farnell, etc use china as well?
[19:53] <mkopack> Yup
[19:54] <_av500_> des2: all I was trying to say is that a $35 price for an r-pi made in china is reasonable
[19:54] <hotwings> _av500_ - if you deal with electronics manufacturing at all you should know how varied pricing can be on components depending on quantity, billing windows, reccuring/contract defined purchases, etc
[19:54] <_av500_> and nothing tremendously "special"
[19:54] <_av500_> hotwings: sure
[19:54] * JonSeals (~Jon@156.sub-174-232-72.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] <_av500_> I did not say the r-pi costs $10 to make
[19:54] <_av500_> all I said is the price is about right
[19:55] <hotwings> just because you may know what one company paid for an ethernet connector, for example, in whatever quantity & under whatever terms, doesnt mean you know _anything_ about what the foundation paid for the same thing with a different quantity and terms. to say otherwise is completely absurd
[19:56] <_av500_> I let you have the last word
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[19:57] <PiOfCube> LOL if only it were a case of the cost of the parts... ;-)
[19:57] <traeak> hotwings: there's only *so many* suppliers of these components
[19:58] <hotwings> correct traeak. what does that have to do with anything though?
[19:59] <traeak> hotwings: it's possible to come up with a WAG on the cost of the RPI. The real question is: what's the uncertainty of the estimations?
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[19:59] * Matthew is now known as Guest92097
[19:59] <PiOfCube> so many suppliers but they don't give the same prices to everyone. It also depends on "contacts" and not just quantity ordered.
[20:00] <traeak> how much variation though? it's really a statistics problem :-p
[20:00] <_av500_> hotwings: are you saying the r-pi sells at a loss?
[20:01] <hotwings> _av500_ - no
[20:01] <_av500_> so we agree :)
[20:01] <PiOfCube> I think the closest guess is "enough to cover costs with a little left over"
[20:01] <hotwings> _av500_ - the only thing ive said is that whether or not rpi can be sustained at $35 has yet to be seen
[20:01] <traeak> back to work though, this is sort of entertaining, though...sort of
[20:01] * afief (~quassel@93-172-235-74.bb.netvision.net.il) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:01] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:01] <_av500_> and thats where I dont see a problem at all
[20:02] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has left #raspberrypi
[20:02] <hotwings> if i had to assume, i would say it should be sustainable.. but i cant say that with 100% certainty and neither can anyone else at this point
[20:02] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:02] <_av500_> well, for all we know, the world ends in 2012
[20:03] <PiOfCube> hotwings: True... look at how much RAM and HDD prices fluctuate. If the foundation have very small "profits" on each sale, some event which inflates compomemt prices might cause problems in the short-term at times.
[20:03] <_av500_> luckily it has not hdd
[20:03] <_av500_> no*
[20:03] <_av500_> and very little ram :)
[20:04] * mkopack (~mkopack@12.177.253.250) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:04] <PiOfCube> true but still important. some earthquake/tsunami/etc in one part of the world and suddenly everyone is selling stuff at twice/thrice the price :S
[20:04] <hotwings> PiOfCube - thats what i mentioned earlier. im not sure how much wiggle room there is for flucuations in cost, in the rpi pricing. ive never said it think theyre being sold at a loss -- ive only said whether or not rpi is sustainable is still unproven at this point
[20:05] <hotwings> i also said that money is only half of the equation.. how the business is ran is the other half
[20:06] <PiOfCube> hotwings: I missed that but you do have a point. More so because the foundation aren't (obviously) putting a huge profit margin on them so will be more prone to that sort of problem
[20:08] <hotwings> on another note, id be willing to pay a little more (emphasis on little), if it meant opening up mpeg2 decoding in hardware
[20:10] <PiOfCube> Yeah and it would be just a little more... from what I've read it would probs be about 50 cents or even a dollar added to get more hardware decoding. But it seemed as if the foundation had a huge list but wanted to keep everything as slim as possible to avoid mission creep at first... hopefully v2 will have more.
[20:12] <zgreg> mpeg-2 licensing is expensive, though
[20:12] <hotwings> i wouldnt hate a firmware update opening it up :)
[20:13] <zgreg> I guess the mpeg la can get away with very expensive royalties because many device *need* mpeg-2
[20:13] <PiOfCube> I paid $5 for one of my mpeg2 encoding/decoding licence and that was from a vendor that sells them in single units... for bulk it's much cheaper
[20:13] <Iota> It's the weekend!
[20:13] <zgreg> STBs and the like
[20:14] <hotwings> (2) For MPEG-2 Encoding Products in hardware or software, the royalty is US $2.50 from January 1, 2002 and $4.00 before January 1, 2002 for each encode unit (Sections 2.2 and 3.1.2), but $2.00 under the new extended License from the later of January 1, 2010 or execution date.
[20:14] <hotwings> the full agreement is here: http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/M2/Pages/Agreement.aspx
[20:15] <hotwings> that was encoding, oops
[20:15] <hotwings> (1) For MPEG-2 Decoding Products in hardware or software (such as those found in set-top boxes, DVD players and computers equipped with MPEG-2 decode units), the royalty is US $2.50 from January 1, 2002 and $4.00/unit before January 1, 2002 (Sections 2.1 and 3.1.1), but $2.00 under the new extended License from the later of January 1, 2010 or execution date.
[20:15] <zgreg> contrast that with the h.264 royalties :)
[20:16] <zgreg> if you don't sell many units, no royalties
[20:17] <hotwings> yup, i read the h264 agreement a little while back
[20:17] <hotwings> better deal no question
[20:17] <zgreg> and if you sell a notable amount of units, it's 0.20 USD in the worst case
[20:17] <_av500_> hotwings: mpeg2 is $2.50
[20:17] <_av500_> oops, missed the above
[20:17] <PiOfCube> But would the "unit" be the broadcom chip or the R-Pi device?
[20:18] <zgreg> PiOfCube: the SoC chip is not a product
[20:18] <_av500_> unit refers to what ends up in users hands
[20:19] <_av500_> ah, so its $2 only now :)
[20:19] <_av500_> mpegla is so kind
[20:19] <zgreg> _av500_: :)
[20:19] <Matt> I have to admit, for me, mpeg2 would be handy
[20:20] <zgreg> the mpeg-2 patents should expire soon, though, don't they?
[20:20] <_av500_> not sure
[20:20] <_av500_> there was a webstie tracking that stuff
[20:20] <_av500_> when what patent expires
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[20:20] <zgreg> http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2008/7/18/232618/312
[20:21] <zgreg> >The last US patent on that list, US 7,292,657, expires in 2023.
[20:21] <zgreg> oh well
[20:21] <_av500_> great :)
[20:22] <Matt> 7334248 was apparently extended to 18 mar 2026
[20:22] <Matt> according to wikipedia, anyway
[20:22] <zgreg> software patents suck
[20:22] <PiOfCube> Such wonderful laws we have on patents these days :S
[20:22] <Matt> zgreg: correct
[20:22] <Matt> software should be covered by copyright
[20:22] <Matt> and not patents
[20:23] <zgreg> <oracle> what about APIs?
[20:23] <_av500_> :)
[20:23] * Matt rolls his eyes
[20:23] <Matt> quite
[20:23] <_av500_> mpeg2 is not a SW patent
[20:23] * neciO (~juan@128.55-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:24] <zgreg> _av500_: not quite, but these are "technology" patents that describe algorithms
[20:24] <_av500_> ture
[20:24] <_av500_> true
[20:24] <_av500_> but its not a SW patent in the common sense
[20:24] <zgreg> and some of the concepts are rather abstract
[20:24] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:24] <PiOfCube> yeah... using concpets dating back to 4000BC
[20:24] <_av500_> the 1st mpeg2 decoders did everything in hardware
[20:24] <_av500_> remember how old that stuff is
[20:25] <_av500_> and how slow it was to decode on PCs back then
[20:25] <_av500_> people had mpeg2 decoder cards in their PCs
[20:25] <PiOfCube> Yeah I had one LMAO
[20:25] <zgreg> it wouldn't be so bad, if the longevity wasn't so long
[20:26] <zgreg> i.e. technology/software patents that last maybe 5 years would be more reasonable
[20:26] <_av500_> well, a lot of stuff takes a long time to "take off"
[20:26] * Naphatul (~Naphatul@46.217.27.173) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:27] <_av500_> mp3 was rotting with that digtal radio project for years before it got "discovered"
[20:27] <zgreg> yes, but twenty years is too long, in any case
[20:28] <zgreg> let's settle on ten years, that should be an acceptable compromise for everyone
[20:28] <_av500_> ok, you call Obama, I call Merkel
[20:28] <zgreg> I'd like to see technology/software patents to go away altogether, but that's not going to happen
[20:28] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:28] <PiOfCube> 10 years is fine as long as they can't add a few full-stops to the patent and re-submit it again :S
[20:29] <zgreg> PiOfCube: does it really work like that?
[20:29] <_av500_> kind of
[20:29] <PiOfCube> Not quite but close enough for the unwashed like us LOL
[20:29] <_av500_> google "submarine patents"
[20:29] <_av500_> though they stopped that
[20:30] <_av500_> you could patent teleportation and then extend it forever until somebody invents it
[20:30] <PiOfCube> One of the tricks they use is to submit a dodgy patent in one country that's very easily "funded" and other countries accept the patent to comply with patent treaties.
[20:31] <_av500_> I like how the chinese copy western patents and then ask for royalties from the original inventors :)
[20:31] <zgreg> _av500_: that's awesome :)
[20:31] <_av500_> yeah
[20:32] * Guest92097 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:32] <PiOfCube> And some of those companies (from what I've read) are owned by the Chinese gov.
[20:32] <_av500_> and the north koreans soon too: http://boingboing.net/2012/04/06/wipo-caught-secretly-funneling.html
[20:32] <cjbaird> There was also Fronhoffer's shittery of how they lied to get their MP3 implimentation accepted by the standard, which demanded it be patent-free..
[20:32] <_av500_> no
[20:33] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[20:33] <zgreg> did they?
[20:33] <_av500_> none of the mpeg standard is patent free
[20:33] <_av500_> standards
[20:33] <PiOfCube> Look at the GIF fiasco
[20:33] <zgreg> I think they only promised it to be free of royalties
[20:33] <zgreg> but later on changed their mind
[20:33] * Netlynx (~jan@lugwv/member/Netlynx) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:33] <_av500_> I doubt mpeg demanded patent free-ness
[20:33] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:33] <_av500_> the problem with mp3 is that there is no mpegla for it
[20:34] <_av500_> in a way patent pools are good
[20:34] * DJWillis is now known as ScummVM|DJWillis
[20:34] <_av500_> if they manage to get all the rights holders
[20:34] <_av500_> saves you from having to pay 10 people
[20:34] <cjbaird> The original 'on paper' design was royality-free... but Frunhoffer went around and patented all the practical ways of implimenting it.
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/857/ - for some reason springs to mind on patents
[20:35] <cjbaird> The Lame encoder project, I think, had an effort to find a on-spec encode method which Frunhoffer had missed.
[20:36] <_av500_> so, just reverse engineer the rpi GPU and get mpeg2 decoding for free...
[20:36] * ShiftPlusOne2 is now known as ShiftPlusOne
[20:36] <_av500_> ar have somebody at BCM leak it ...
[20:36] <_av500_> or
[20:36] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[20:37] <PiOfCube> The thing that annoys me with software patents is many of those are conceived using languages/IDEs that are GPL or other "free as in beer" licenses.
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> cjbaird: rainbow tables.
[20:37] <_av500_> it's Fraunhofer btw.
[20:37] <zgreg> SpeedEvil: not practical though
[20:38] <ReggieUK> the thing that annoys me is that concepts get patented of cprighted without actually producing the goods
[20:38] <ReggieUK> or copyrighted*
[20:38] <ReggieUK> like gestures
[20:38] <PiOfCube> BT once patented a UFO :S
[20:38] <ReggieUK> funnily enough humans have been using these for thousands of years
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> Something that you are the first person to concieve of a problem - and solve it in 10 mins - should never, ever be patentable.
[20:38] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:39] <_av500_> just dont tell it took you 10min
[20:39] <_av500_> claim it took 10ys
[20:39] <ReggieUK> it's like you're trying to copyright stuff by stating the obviousd
[20:39] <PiOfCube> MS had a patent on double-clicking a mouse button.
[20:39] <ReggieUK> oooh look a rain, I think I'm going to patent being wet as a means to clean yourself
[20:39] <_av500_> seeing how many people fail to double click, it seems hard :)
[20:40] <PiOfCube> ReggieUK: Sorry I filed that patent yesterday :P
[20:40] <_av500_> no shower today I guess...
[20:40] <_av500_> your fault!
[20:40] <M0RBD> I acually liked the MS serial mouse..
[20:41] <PiOfCube> Today, my patent that's being filed is the use of typos... anyone that miss-uses their keyboard must pay me 1 penny for each letter wrongly typed.
[20:41] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:42] <ShiftPlusOne> awesome http://www.nature.com/news/enzymes-grow-artificial-dna-1.10487
[20:42] * M0RBD is going to file a patent on the patent idea.
[20:43] <PiOfCube> I'm suprised Maxis didn't develop "Sim Patent".
[20:44] * PiOfCube rushes off to patent that idea before anyone else does.
[20:54] * JMNUTS (~macbook@180.57.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:19] <mozzwald> ugh. found out two crappy usb cables were causing power issues with my pi.
[21:19] * zyklon (~zyklon@184.82.62.94) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:19] * athanor1723 (~dfaler@12.131.0.2) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:19] <hotwings> YOU HAVE AN RPI?!
[21:19] <mozzwald> aye
[21:20] <hotwings> nice :)
[21:20] <mozzwald> nice now that it's running stable after 2 days of fighting it :)
[21:20] * zyklon (~zyklon@184.82.62.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:20] <BenO> mozzwald, same adapter, but usb cable problems?
[21:22] <mozzwald> yep. but I did end up buying a dual output power adapter from radio shack which is ok so far. usb port for the pi and dc cable for usb hub
[21:22] <hotwings> mozzwald - youre powering the rpi with the usb hub ?
[21:23] <mozzwald> no, powering pi with this now http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12628286#
[21:24] <BenO> mozzwald, Niiice :) I like the fact that it costs the same as the pi too ;)
[21:24] <mozzwald> voltage is reading 4.9 average on tp2
[21:24] <mozzwald> need to run some stuff and see if it drops
[21:25] <BenO> mozzwald, that's about right - have you got an opportunity to rate the current draw too with that?
[21:25] * stereohead is now known as stereohead-away
[21:26] <mozzwald> not yet
[21:28] * antenagora (~antenagor@host71-183-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[21:33] * antenagora (~antenagor@host71-183-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:33] <OY1R> where do i get my hands on a rpi now ?
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> ebay
[21:35] <Matt> SpeedEvil: I was just boggling over that
[21:35] <Matt> $150+
[21:35] <Matt> and 14 bids
[21:35] <mozzwald> sheesh.. 160 bucks
[21:35] <OY1R> i'll just have to wait, ebay is to steep
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> Prices will drop
[21:36] * basso (~quassel@pc5103.stdby.hin.no) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:36] <Iota> On the bright side, you should have one by the end of June.
[21:36] <OY1R> when is the next shipment due ?
[21:37] * basso (~quassel@pc5103.stdby.hin.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] <Matt> well given that farnell are saying that people placing an order now should get it in july
[21:37] <OneFix_Work> Does the Model B not have the full SD card slot now?
[21:37] <Matt> I'd imagine july
[21:37] <zgreg> OneFix_Work: full SD slot?
[21:37] <PiOfCube> I got my order in my basket within 30 mins of going live but couldn't finish the order process until the next day so I'm still waiting :(
[21:38] * CcSsNET (~ccssnet@c-98-216-141-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:39] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: Some of the beta boards look like they had a SD slot that held the whole card, but the units people are getting look like they are just the pins
[21:39] <zgreg> OneFix_Work: ahh
[21:39] <zgreg> yes, the SD card slot sucks a bit
[21:40] * Docmahoo (~Docmahoo@brhv-4db73bf1.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:40] <IT_Sean> OneFix_Work: There were supply issues with the oer slot
[21:40] <IT_Sean> *other
[21:40] * antenagora (~antenagor@host71-183-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[21:40] <zgreg> I guess the nice SD slots are sort of expensive
[21:40] <IT_Sean> Exactly
[21:40] <IT_Sean> Harder to get, and more expensive
[21:40] <zgreg> you know, the fancy ones that lock the card completely in
[21:40] <IT_Sean> I prefer the clicky ones
[21:40] <zgreg> and a click-push ejects the SD card
[21:41] <IT_Sean> Yeah
[21:41] <OneFix_Work> IT_Sean: Oh, so I wonder if anyone is working on modding a card to take one of the expensive slots
[21:41] <IT_Sean> Sadly, those are more aspensive. And take up more room on the board
[21:41] <ReggieUK> I wonder if you could claw back a couple of io pins from the sd socket
[21:41] <IT_Sean> I don't see it happened g
[21:41] <ReggieUK> it has to boot from SD
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> ReggieUK: In principle, I think 3.
[21:41] <zgreg> let's just hope the cheap plastic SD slot endures many insertions
[21:41] <ReggieUK> so cart detect isn't really necessary, it's a given
[21:42] * peeps[work] (~peepsalot@rrcs-50-84-109-250.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> ReggieUK: But that'd be after boot - it won't boot in MMC mode I imagine
[21:42] <ReggieUK> write protect could be gained back too
[21:42] <peeps[work]> i wonder what the max people will be able to overclock the raspi. i read that up to 1.15Ghz has been tested
[21:42] <OneFix_Work> IT_Sean: it just concerns me that the card might fall out if the card were mounted on something that was moving...
[21:43] <IT_Sean> Gaffer tape
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Hotmelt works well
[21:43] <zgreg> ReggieUK: but really, does the SoC not have enough GPIOs or what? why skip the write-protect switch?
[21:43] <IT_Sean> Tape the buggering bugger out of it
[21:43] <IT_Sean> :p
[21:43] <IT_Sean> zgreg: The slot they used does not have the sensor for the switch
[21:43] <OneFix_Work> peeps[work]: Presumably, these would overclock better than say a desktop CPU, but not as good as say a cell phone CPU
[21:43] <zgreg> oh. so it's a REALLY cheap one :)
[21:44] <IT_Sean> OneFix_Work: The raspi IS a cell phone CPU, basically
[21:44] <IT_Sean> zgreg: Yup
[21:44] <Matt> zgreg: every fraction of a penny they could save, they did
[21:44] <IT_Sean> The whole point was to keep the price right down to a minimum
[21:44] <OneFix_Work> IT_Sean: Not exactly...more like a settop box CPU :)
[21:44] <zgreg> yeah, of course
[21:44] <IT_Sean> So, if they can save .002p on each SD card slot... ... ...
[21:44] <zgreg> analog sound output is especially funny
[21:45] <OneFix_Work> IT_Sean: The reason I say that is because, in many cases, cell phone CPUs are underclocked to meet power requirements, but in the settop box market, that's less common...
[21:45] <zgreg> I still wonder what the sound quality is like and if it's possible to directly drive headphones
[21:45] * ScummVM|DJWillis is now known as DJWillis
[21:46] <IT_Sean> Should be able to
[21:46] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: Well, I would presume that it would be at least as good as a Roku 2 :)
[21:46] * Docmahoo (~Docmahoo@brhv-4db73bf1.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:46] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: And those things can output Dolby 5.1 surround
[21:47] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:47] <zgreg> OneFix_Work: I mean the analog output
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[21:48] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: Not sure. Since there is very little components in the analog output part, I would think it would have a lot to do with how good the connector is.
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Connector is quite irrelevant.
[21:48] <zgreg> yes
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> It'll be how much the drive is from the chip, and the size of the decoupling capacitors.
[21:48] * indigenous (~indigenou@pdpc/supporter/student/indigenous) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:48] <zgreg> what matters is that the foundation went with a very simple PWM solution instead of using a proper DAC
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> I would be extremely surprised if it could meaningfully drive unamplified headphones, rather than an amp
[21:49] * zyklon (~zyklon@184.82.62.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:49] <zgreg> the PWM outputs are almost directly connected to the connector (there's only a bit of protection diodes and a simple passive low-pass filter inbetween)
[21:50] <zgreg> SpeedEvil: yeah, I doubt it, too
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> PWM works just fine to drive phones
[21:50] <zgreg> I hope earplugs will work with sufficient volume
[21:50] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: I think we are finding that is the major differentiator in the whole rPi design. I predict that a "premium" version will be made at some point (at an extra cost) with better connectors.
[21:51] <zgreg> the connectors aren't the issue, really
[21:52] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: To some extent, you're right. I think it's more a question of what the BCOM chip can do
[21:52] <zgreg> there's no amplification at all, and the filter is probably quite sensitive to noise
[21:52] <zgreg> that are the problems
[21:53] <zgreg> OneFix_Work: yes, of course. it's a pretty nifty trick to use PWM, but usually you'd use a DAC (the SoC has an interface for that)
[21:53] * Meatballs|Away is now known as Meatballs
[21:54] * Meatballs is now known as Guest37103
[21:55] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: If all you're looking to do is stream audio from the device, then there are probably several "tricks" you could do in linux (like equalizers)
[21:55] <BenO> zgreg, it is quite sensitive - I found it gives the best/most stable sound plugged into a line-in amp
[21:56] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: You could also get one of these...http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011410&p_id=8126&seq=1&format=2
[21:57] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: If you don't need it to be portable and all you
[21:57] <zgreg> OneFix_Work: or you can use a really cheap USB sound card (< 5 USD)
[21:57] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: are interested in is sound quality
[21:57] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: That's true too
[21:57] * zyklon (~zyklon@184.82.62.94) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> Or even a2dp
[21:58] <zgreg> these cheap USB sound dongles at least use a real DAC
[21:58] * Guest37103 is now known as Meatballs
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[22:01] <IT_Sean> /clear
[22:01] <IT_Sean> Damn
[22:03] <OneFix_Work> Anyone used one of these with the rPi yet? https://helix.marietta.edu/cgi-bin/SecureURL.pl?url=http://helix.marietta.edu:8090/ramgen/secure/users/lr002/Air_On_A_G_String.mp3&filetype=file.ram&moodle=yes.html
[22:03] <OneFix_Work> oops, wrong link
[22:03] <OneFix_Work> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004LPY204/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004I8B8Z6&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GPEVAPWDZR22ADP6WN7
[22:05] * zyklon (~zyklon@184.82.62.94) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[22:07] <OneFix_Work> BTW, is there a maximum size for the rPi's SD Card slot?
[22:07] <OneFix_Work> I'm also guessing that SDXC won't work on it...
[22:08] <BenO> Yeah, no SD 3.0s
[22:08] <BenO> At least, so I've been informed
[22:08] <OneFix_Work> BenO: So, I think that limits it to 32GB
[22:08] <zgreg> it does not work due to the lack of .18V
[22:08] <zgreg> 1.8V
[22:09] <zgreg> hmm as far as I know most big SD cards still support the old transfer modes
[22:09] <zgreg> they should work fine
[22:09] <zgreg> the 32 GB limitation is artificial and only FAT32's fault
[22:10] <zgreg> FAT32 is (officially) only supported up to a size of 32 GB per filesystem
[22:10] <OneFix_Work> So, we could stick one of these in it ... http://www.amazon.com/Lexar-SDXC-Flash-Memory-LSD128CRBNA133/dp/B004SAMZW4
[22:10] <OneFix_Work> :)
[22:11] <zgreg> yes
[22:11] * zyklon (~zyklon@184.82.62.94) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:11] <OneFix_Work> Though, I would question the sanity of putting a $200 SD card on a $35 card
[22:11] <Iota> I just took a look at the ArchLinux ARM packages and noticed they're either armv5 or armv7, which is the raspberry pi using?
[22:12] * neciO (~juan@128.55-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[22:12] <acfrazier> the armv5tl build of ALARM is the one you want
[22:12] <Iota> Thanks, acfrazier.
[22:12] <acfrazier> armv7 will not run on the rpi, though it can run armv6
[22:12] * zyklon (~zyklon@184.82.62.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:13] <OneFix_Work> Iota: It's actually ARMv6, but v5 should work
[22:13] <Iota> Arm is backwards compatible?
[22:13] * wry (~wry@c-71-205-142-149.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[22:13] <acfrazier> yep
[22:13] <Iota> Neato, thank guys.
[22:13] <OneFix_Work> Iota: Which is weird, because ARMv6 is also called ARM11
[22:14] <acfrazier> I still haven't gotten mine yet, Newark has a ship date of late May now
[22:14] <acfrazier> which is rather disappointing
[22:14] <Iota> Oh really? I'm guessing there's no quick explination of that? I'll have to read.
[22:14] <zgreg> OneFix_Work: well, not exactly
[22:14] <OneFix_Work> acfrazier: Did they update your ship date?
[22:14] <acfrazier> they did
[22:14] <zgreg> ARMv6 is the name of the ISA, ARM11 is an implementation of that ISA
[22:14] <zgreg> ISA = instruction set architecture
[22:15] <acfrazier> after the first 10000, orders start shipping in late may
[22:15] <Iota> I see.
[22:15] <acfrazier> from what I've seen
[22:15] <hotwings> my newark/element14 ship dates still say aug.16th :\
[22:15] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: Right, I know...one is the architecture, and one is the instruction set, but it still causes confusion
[22:15] <acfrazier> someone internally at newark told me they have a million on order because they have at least half that in interest
[22:15] * runde (terjr@cassarossa.samfundet.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:15] * passstab still wishes he could track
[22:16] <acfrazier> hotwings, order date?
[22:16] <zgreg> ARMv6 is special because there's not much after ARM11 that implements it, but for ARMv5 and ARMv7 there are many different implementations
[22:16] <passstab> but i called and they said may 1 at latest
[22:16] <hotwings> i ordered march 1, and a second one on march 3
[22:16] <acfrazier> that's why
[22:16] <acfrazier> I ordered on 2/29
[22:17] <Iota> Thanks for the explination, zgreg.
[22:17] <acfrazier> probably have a huge volume of orders to go through
[22:17] <OneFix_Work> hotwings: If you ordered before April 18th, they have all said that you would get yours between May 1st and June 1st. Estimated ship dates will be updated when they know your board is being produced.
[22:17] <passstab> mar5
[22:17] <OneFix_Work> zgreg: Of course, the next big step for ARM is 64-bit
[22:18] <hotwings> there was a lot of orders on 2/29 but a lot less than people think due to the crashed servers
[22:18] <Iota> http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/instruction-set-architectures.php Is there a video on that site?! I don't have flash and can't see where it's coming from...
[22:18] <zgreg> I don't see a video
[22:19] <Iota> Oh there we go! It's a YouTube video on the "ARMv8 Resources" tab.
[22:19] <Iota> It seems to autostart.
[22:19] <zgreg> fortunately it does not do that here
[22:19] * zyklon (~zyklon@184.82.62.94) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:19] <zgreg> click-to-run for plugins ftw
[22:20] <Iota> :o
[22:20] * wry (~wry@c-71-205-142-149.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:24] * IT_Sean sets something on fire
[22:25] * umbrella (~umbrella@unaffiliated/umbrella) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] * huene starts to barbecue
[22:28] * IT_Sean extinguishes huene
[22:31] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:31] <Matt> I Read that as "home"
[22:32] <Matt> and was wondering what you set on fire
[22:32] <Matt> thinking along those lines
[22:33] <Matt> did you get that board repaired?
[22:36] * wjoe (~joe@2001:41d0:2:7d6a::1) Quit (Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.)
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[22:37] <graingert> can anyone recommend an amazon.co.uk (prime) SD card?
[22:37] <graingert> I spent a while looking for one, and got tempted all the way up to ??30 through ??1 price differences for better features
[22:37] <graingert> ie what's the sweetspot
[22:37] * skrock (~martin@c-167270d5.024-74-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:40] * Compy (~Compy@128.192.112.158) Quit ()
[22:41] <OneFix_Work> hotwings: If your order still has August as a ship date, then your device has not been produced yet. If it now has a date anytime in May, then that's probably an accurate ship date.
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[22:44] * Purgox (~v2@2a02:2308::216:3eff:feba:39f8) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:44] <Purgox> Hello~
[22:46] * graingert is now known as tilde
[22:46] <tilde> Hello Purgox
[22:46] * tilde is now known as graingert
[22:48] <IT_Sean> 'ello
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[22:51] <Purgox> Sure is fun
[22:51] <Purgox> I got my RPi today.
[22:51] <Purgox> Been busy on getting a buildroot together.
[22:51] <IT_Sean> Woot
[22:52] <Purgox> Bit confused on how it actually initialize, but it's interesting fo' sure.
[22:52] <Purgox> initializes*
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[22:53] <IT_Sean> How so?
[22:54] <OneFix_Work> Purgox: Are you using Windows or Linux to create the SD caard?
[22:55] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[22:55] <Purgox> OneFix_Work: Linux.
[22:55] <Purgox> Well, more confused about how it all flows together, really.
[22:56] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:58] <OneFix_Work> Purgox: Did you download an image from the rPi download page?
[22:58] * koaschten_ (~koaschten@p5B3A6560.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:59] <Matt> BenO: ping?
[22:59] <Purgox> No, my SD card is too small
[22:59] <Purgox> For any of those.
[22:59] <OneFix_Work> Purgox: How big is your SD card?
[22:59] <Purgox> 1GB
[23:00] <BenO> Matt hullo
[23:00] <OneFix_Work> Purgox: I am pretty sure that the Debian image will fit on any card bigger than 512MB
[23:00] <BenO> Matt, What's up? :)
[23:00] <Purgox> Eh, the extracted .img file is 2GB.
[23:00] <Matt> BenO: 21 banbury road
[23:01] <Purgox> Also, tinkering around is fun...
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[23:01] <Purgox> Anyone has actually any experience in using buildroot with it here?
[23:01] <BenO> Matt, ah so he's down there in one of those buildings :)
[23:01] * Naphatul (~Naphatul@46.217.27.173) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:01] <OneFix_Work> Purgox: Although, it's recommended to put it on a card that is at least 4GB
[23:02] * koaschten (~koaschten@p5B3A720E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[23:02] <Matt> BenO: also, he requested some clarification as to "up north at the accelerator"
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[23:03] <DJWillis> Purgox: used it a fair few times but not for the last few years, OE's micro image fits my 'really tiny' needs ;)
[23:04] <BenO> Matt, I used to work in the libraries, building the digital archive infrastructure - we wanted to put in a new data centre, but elec board said no way, the Diamond centre was already using up all the power ;)
[23:05] <OneFix_Work> DJWillis: Yea, but that's not available from the downloads page, is it?
[23:05] <DJWillis> OneFix_Work: huh?
[23:05] <BenO> Matt, I thought it was north of Osney (where we were based) but I could easily be wrong :)
[23:05] <Purgox> DJWillis: ooh, there is a micro image?
[23:05] <Purgox> That's nice.
[23:06] <OneFix_Work> DJWillis: The micro image
[23:06] <DJWillis> Purgox: the trick is to use OE without a distro set.
[23:06] <Hexxeh> DJWillis: Were you looking into X11 accel or do I have you confused with somebody else?
[23:06] * Veryevil (~Veryevil@5aced5a8.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[23:06] * koaschten_ (~koaschten@p5B3A6560.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:06] <DJWillis> OneFix_Work: not really, I have not really got the OE Raspberry Pi layer into a state I am totally happy with yet but your welcome to build it.
[23:07] <Matt> BenO: he says somewhere nearby, but he's never been there
[23:07] <Purgox> But I like my Portage...
[23:07] <DJWillis> Hexxeh: I was but this week has gone to crap so not a lot of time for hobby stuff.
[23:07] <Hexxeh> DJWillis: Ahh, fair enough. I'm curious, which approach were you intending to take? I looked into this today, but it seems rather beyond my skillset.
[23:07] <Matt> BenO: digital archive eh?
[23:07] <OneFix_Work> Purgox: You could try this ... http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM
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[23:08] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: oldtopman has left the house)
[23:09] <DJWillis> Hexxeh: I was not planning to take any approach ;). There are lots of bits and bobs of ARM routines for X FBDEV drivers so the 1st plan was to fork xFBDEV and move in some ARM routines and look at the DMA support from that kernel patch and see if it would actually help at all ;-)
[23:09] <Hexxeh> DJWillis: Ah, so just framebuffer acceleration
[23:09] <Hexxeh> Rather than 3D stuff
[23:09] <Purgox> Hm.
[23:09] <Purgox> I don't see any indication of Raspberry Pi support on the OE wiki
[23:09] <BenO> Matt, yeah :) It forced us to have a smaller backup centre at Osney, in an area prone to flooding, on the ground floor.
[23:10] <Matt> BenO: lol
[23:10] <BenO> Matt, So if Oxford, like you know, lose their digital scans of the Dead sea scrolls or their google book scans, it's their fault ;)
[23:10] <DJWillis> Hexxeh: well it's for XOrg so 2D routines.
[23:10] <Matt> BenO: we help support the storage U of T library use for their digital archiving project
[23:11] <Purgox> So, to get this straight, the basic Pi booting procedure is kernel + firmware on partition #1 (fat32) and rootfs on partition #2 (ext2)?
[23:11] <graingert> BenO: have you got a torrent for them all?
[23:11] <Hexxeh> Purgox: yes
[23:11] <DJWillis> Purgox: http://blogs.distant-earth.com/wp/ is what I am working on, it's now pending for inclusion in Angstrom.
[23:11] <Purgox> Any specific filenames the kernel/firmware have to be?
[23:11] <BenO> Matt, U of T = Texas?
[23:12] <Matt> Toronto
[23:12] <BenO> graingert, no, but they are putting them online soon. We made sure they scanned only items before 1887 to avoid (c) so they can be reused freely
[23:12] <Hexxeh> Purgox: same as these here https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/boot
[23:12] <Hexxeh> Purgox: look at an existing image for reference
[23:12] <Purgox> Also, I see.
[23:12] <Purgox> Also, cheers.
[23:13] <DJWillis> Purgox: well you need the boot files and the kernel needs the 32k prepended bit.
[23:13] <Purgox> I assume everything not part of the kernel* is firmware?
[23:13] <Purgox> DJWillis: Yeah.
[23:13] <graingert> BenO: I'd like to know the info about that
[23:13] <Purgox> kernel*.img files, I mean
[23:13] <BenO> Matt, Ah cool :) I think I may have met them at some point... possibly at the Open Repositories event a few years back. Might be different folk now ofc
[23:13] <graingert> BenO: is there anywhere I can find out more about that
[23:15] <BenO> graingert, I think the Old English Books did a release of their stuff - they hand-encode it all in TEI/EAD so not that layperson friendly
[23:16] <BenO> We are going to put it all into a public store quite soon though. Not putting out any deadlines for it, as it is very much a 2 programmer project so far
[23:16] <graingert> the geocities mirror torrent didn't make that much sense to the layperson, but they ended up reasonably well seeded
[23:16] <graingert> for their size
[23:16] <graingert> I always figure it's best to get as many stars as possible for the data
[23:16] <graingert> and worry about further stars later
[23:16] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@pool-108-7-230-209.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Done)
[23:17] <BenO> graingert, I agree and it was very cool to see @textfiles and his crew do that. Unfortunately, OUCS blocks torrent traffic so the archives weren't allow to reseed
[23:17] <BenO> At least, I think it was textfiles ...
[23:17] <graingert> s/blocks/claims to block/
[23:18] <graingert> uTP is blocked almost nowhere
[23:18] <BenO> No, they do inspect now and it's written in the statutes
[23:18] <SocksG> BenO: s/blocks/blocked/
[23:18] <graingert> either way you could just route it over skype
[23:19] <BenO> They allow skype, but only if you reconfig
[23:19] <BenO> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/network/voip/skype.xml
[23:19] <BenO> They've altered it, finally :)
[23:19] <SocksG> 2 years ago!
[23:19] <BenO> I've been away too long ;)
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[23:20] <BenO> SocksG, Which is a little after I formally left and began to work for them as a freelance ;)
[23:20] <BenO> So now I know :)
[23:21] <graingert> soton blocks a few parts of the bittorrent protocol
[23:21] <graingert> ie trackers and plaintext peer comunincations
[23:22] <BenO> SocksG, You wouldn't by any chance know of David Shotton btw? (just spotted your addr)
[23:22] <SocksG> I know him in passing.
[23:22] <BenO> SocksG, ah fair enough, just a thought :)
[23:24] <SocksG> I'm IT Manager at Wolfson and he holds lots of lectures there
[23:26] <BenO> SocksG, :) yeah, he's a very active researcher in that way!
[23:27] * Matt had a uni interview at soton
[23:28] <SocksG> It's a big enough college that I only know about half of the governing body.
[23:29] * SocksG grew up in soton, but doesn't know the uni much.
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[23:30] <BenO> SocksG, It's got a very nice garden and a quite steep bridge :)
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[23:33] * Iota shakes tlc
[23:36] <tlc> have phun....this is foreign country to me and I ain't got enuff tekkie skills cya
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[23:43] <Hexxeh> BenO: heard stuttering where the CPU is getting loaded by another application whilst playing music?
[23:43] * NeVeRTaylor (~JT@74.sub-174-252-184.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] <BenO> Yeah, I really think that the way the sound is passed to the GPU needs to be looked at
[23:45] <BenO> Or are you doing it direct through omx?
[23:45] <Hexxeh> doing it the same way hello_audio does
[23:46] <Hexxeh> i'm uploading my despotify patch atm btw
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[23:46] <BenO> Ah, now that's interesting
[23:46] <Hexxeh> it might be just not keeping up with encoding, though
[23:46] <Hexxeh> *decoding, even
[23:46] <Hexxeh> or perhaps the buffer is too small?
[23:47] <BenO> maybe, but after a few tweaks, mplayer was down to 6% on some random ogg file I was putting through it
[23:47] <Hexxeh> what kind of tweaks? :P
[23:47] <BenO> Hexxeh, The 'lets have a go at avoiding kernel panics' kind
[23:47] <Hexxeh> hahahaha
[23:48] <Hexxeh> awww, crap, just deleted my patch
[23:48] <Hexxeh> oh dear :P
[23:48] <Hexxeh> oh well
[23:48] <BenO> Hexxeh, It would be good to find out what the capacity of the audio queue is on the gpu side
[23:48] <Hexxeh> time to start again and do it better
[23:48] <Hexxeh> you can set it
[23:48] <BenO> lol :)
[23:48] <BenO> Hexxeh, aha doing it directly? I'll have to have a deeper look to see what the vchiq process has it set to
[23:48] <Hexxeh> uh, lemme find the call
[23:49] <Hexxeh> it's part of the init stuff
[23:49] <Hexxeh> audioplay_create(&st, samplerate, nchannels, bitdepth, 10, buffer_size);
[23:49] <Hexxeh> last two args are num_buffers and buffer_size
[23:50] <Hexxeh> so you get to define it yourself
[23:50] <BenO> Thanks :)
[23:50] <Hexxeh> and i presume the GPU allocates that memory to you
[23:52] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[23:52] <BenO> I found this... buffer_bytes_max = (4 * 8 - 1) * 1024, /* Needs to be less than audioplay buffer size
[23:53] <BenO> It's the only mention of it in the linux source
[23:54] <BenO> So I'm assuming the buffer size for the audio buffer is 32kb (-1kb due to comment)
[23:54] <BenO> audioplay_create doesn't feature in the src...
[23:54] <Hexxeh> it's in the hello_audio one
[23:56] <BenO> Hexxeh, yeah, I know, I was just wondering where it might figure wrt the alsa module
[23:56] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:57] <Hexxeh> ah, nah, that function is only part of the wrapper in the example
[23:57] <Hexxeh> but you can look what it's calling inside the definition of that method

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