#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-04-23

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <danieldaniel> :)
[0:00] <passstab> i'v never tryed it on real hardware
[0:00] <danieldaniel> idc
[0:00] <danieldaniel> :D
[0:01] <passstab> ok what tool should i use to upload a 1.5gb image?
[0:01] <danieldaniel> hmm
[0:01] <passstab> torrent good?
[0:01] <danieldaniel> no
[0:01] <danieldaniel> can't use them
[0:01] <danieldaniel> mediafire?
[0:02] <IT_Sean> usendit?
[0:03] * flaushy (~flaushy@euve10332.vserver.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] <BenO> dropbox gives you 2Gb for free
[0:03] <passstab> anything w/o regestering?
[0:03] <wcchandler> ugh... doesn't like my nfs volume... but it saw it and tried to connect.
[0:04] <wcchandler> other clients can connect just fine
[0:04] <Cheery> passstab: torrents of course!
[0:04] <wcchandler> for hosts i have *
[0:04] <danieldaniel> i can't do torrents :(
[0:04] <Cheery> :(
[0:04] <passstab> wait
[0:04] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:04] <passstab> dcc !
[0:04] <danieldaniel> dcc
[0:04] <danieldaniel> ?
[0:05] <IT_Sean> DCC! FTW!
[0:05] <Hydrazine> DCC :D
[0:05] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:05] <danieldaniel> ???
[0:05] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:05] <flaushy> you need the images?
[0:05] <flaushy> and hi
[0:05] <IT_Sean> DEE CEE CEE!
[0:05] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:06] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:07] <passstab> why are you rejecting it?
[0:07] <danieldaniel> passstab: it was an accident
[0:07] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[0:07] <danieldaniel> and also, don't send it yet
[0:07] <passstab> ok tell me when
[0:07] <danieldaniel> ok
[0:07] <danieldaniel> i want to see if something works
[0:08] <danieldaniel> then ill accept it
[0:08] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:08] <danieldaniel> if it doesn't
[0:08] <passstab> ok
[0:08] <passstab> i made a stable and a testing versions
[0:08] <danieldaniel> ok
[0:09] <danieldaniel> stop sending it :(
[0:09] <passstab> sorry
[0:10] <danieldaniel> my ZNC is now spamming me with messages
[0:10] <danieldaniel> :)
[0:10] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] <passstab> gaa i can't remember the password i set for it
[0:11] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:13] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:13] <flaushy> hej, i got a pi now, but nearly no time next week. Is there any need for remote access to it?
[0:13] <passstab> shit
[0:13] <flaushy> (compilation/whatever?)
[0:14] <Cheery> flaushy: highly likely no
[0:14] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:14] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:14] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:14] * [TNM]Roban (~Roban_A@90-227-25-142-no68.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:15] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:16] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:16] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:17] <Cheery> flaushy: I'd highly likely need physical access to one.
[0:17] * heliAAA (~homi@unaffiliated/heliaaa) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:17] * farmboy_ (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:17] <passstab> oh i found it
[0:18] <flaushy> Cheery: yeah that won't be possible i fear :(
[0:18] <flaushy> except you come around to bremen ;)
[0:19] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:20] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:20] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:20] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:20] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:21] <Cheery> I just hope I'll get my own fast :)
[0:21] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:21] <flaushy> yeah
[0:21] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:21] <flaushy> i hoped so for a long time as well
[0:21] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:21] <flaushy> today a mate of mine gave me his, he has no time right now
[0:22] <flaushy> he takes mine as soon as it arrives
[0:22] <Hydrazine> Hexxeh: just booted with the rootfs on an usb stick, your kernel.img works perfectly, thx
[0:22] <Cheery> lol
[0:22] <flaushy> alas... i am out of time as well :(
[0:22] <flaushy> boot from usb w/o sdcard works now?
[0:23] <Cheery> flaushy: huh?
[0:23] * winocm (~textual@opensn0w/developer/winocm) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:23] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:23] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:23] <flaushy> hm rootfs... misread
[0:24] * Sko is now known as SkoZombie
[0:24] * SkoZombie (~quassel@60-240-15-173.tpgi.com.au) has left #raspberrypi
[0:25] <Hydrazine> yeah, still need a SD-card for the bootloader
[0:25] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] <Cheery> and class-6 SD card exactly?
[0:25] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[0:26] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:26] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@240-134.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[0:28] * winocm (~textual@opensn0w/developer/winocm) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] * msilas (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:28] * micky (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[0:28] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host33-192-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] * micky (~micky@krikkit.msilas.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] <Cheery> you know why I'm so eager to get on osdeving to raspberry pi?
[0:30] <wcchandler> woot, nfs booting
[0:30] <Cheery> especially after this day, when I studied it further
[0:30] <Thorn_> cuz u smell like fake cherry?
[0:30] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Changing host)
[0:31] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] <Cheery> perhaps. :)
[0:31] <passstab> hi shirro
[0:32] <wcchandler> does any pi reboot correctly from the OS? i.e. running "reboot" ?
[0:32] <shirro> morning
[0:32] <passstab> no
[0:32] <passstab> is not morning
[0:32] <danieldaniel> too large timeout requested for CMD38
[0:33] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:33] <danieldaniel> any idea how to fix that
[0:34] <SpeedEvil> increase the max timeout.
[0:34] <danieldaniel> how?
[0:34] <SpeedEvil> grep "too large timeout" in the kernel.
[0:34] <danieldaniel> how?
[0:34] <SpeedEvil> Find the test. Find where the comparator is set - patch it
[0:35] <danieldaniel> it spams it with errors
[0:35] <danieldaniel> like, when its bootin
[0:35] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[0:35] <danieldaniel> booting*
[0:37] <danieldaniel> its something with my SD card
[0:37] <danieldaniel> great
[0:37] <passstab> that sux
[0:41] * Milos|Netbook (Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:42] <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.xkcd.com/irc/Leopard#Health_risks
[0:43] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:47] <a_c_r_> weird power stuff
[0:47] <danieldaniel> passstab: still have that image?
[0:48] <passstab> yip
[0:48] <passstab> AND i remeber the login!!
[0:48] <danieldaniel> :D
[0:48] * Milos|Netbook (Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:48] <passstab> want it?
[0:48] <danieldaniel> passstab: can you send it to me?
[0:48] <danieldaniel> yeah
[0:48] <danieldaniel> sorry
[0:48] <danieldaniel> one more time
[0:48] <danieldaniel> XD
[0:49] <danieldaniel> thanks!
[0:49] <passstab> i have a testing image also if you want
[0:49] <danieldaniel> nah
[0:49] <danieldaniel> Thanks though
[0:51] <danieldaniel> doesn't seem to be downloading
[0:51] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:51] <passstab> 2%
[0:51] <passstab> :(
[0:51] <danieldaniel> its not downloading
[0:51] <passstab> yes it is
[0:51] * Syliss (~Syliss@108.210.165.132) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[0:52] <passstab> jus slowly
[0:52] <danieldaniel> ok
[0:52] * passstab turns of transmission
[0:52] <passstab> off
[0:53] <passstab> i don't know what you need to do for the kernel tho
[0:53] <a_c_r_> why would voltage supplied to the pi out of a USB port on my macbook not drop, but the voltage out of my agilent power supply drop off fairly significantly?
[0:53] * phantoneD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:55] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host33-192-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
[0:57] <wcchandler> rootfs 98G 71G 22G 77% /
[0:57] <wcchandler> woot
[0:57] <Hydrazine> nice
[0:58] <BenO> NFS?
[0:58] <a_c_r_> aha. my hacked together cable has a voltage drop of .35V
[0:59] <passstab> danieldaniel, BTW the username,password is root,{space}
[0:59] <danieldaniel> ok
[0:59] <danieldaniel> root and space?
[1:00] <passstab> yip
[1:00] <danieldaniel> ok
[1:00] <passstab> and you might need to set up sources.lst
[1:00] <danieldaniel> ok
[1:00] <wcchandler> BenO: yep :)
[1:00] <passstab> as well as a user ofc
[1:00] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:00] <danieldaniel> yeah
[1:01] <BenO> wcchandler, Nice :)
[1:01] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:01] * passstab wishes he could remember where he got the instructions to make this image
[1:02] <a_c_r_> holy crap. the quality of a usb cable is most definitely quantifiable and has a drastic effect on ?? supply voltage measured between TP2 & TP1
[1:04] <Cheery> it's a bit picky?
[1:06] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:06] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:06] <a_c_r_> it seems so. seeing strange things.
[1:07] <danieldaniel> anyone know where to get the openelec image?
[1:07] <danieldaniel> Want to try that too
[1:07] * ukscone1 (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[1:07] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[1:08] <passstab> yea i looked
[1:08] <passstab> found nothing
[1:08] <danieldaniel> me neither
[1:08] <danieldaniel> :(
[1:08] <passstab> http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/10/18/raspberry-pi-emulator-in-ubuntu-with-qemu/
[1:08] <passstab> thats what i used
[1:09] <passstab> but i skipped up until Generating ARMEL Debian Squeeze Rootfs
[1:09] <passstab> maybe you should use his image :P
[1:09] <passstab> (at the bottum)
[1:10] <danieldaniel> trying
[1:10] <danieldaniel> Also, what do I do with the .ext2?
[1:11] <passstab> you download is 22% finished
[1:11] <passstab> idk
[1:11] <danieldaniel> i downloaded the one from that site
[1:12] <danieldaniel> i stopped the one from you
[1:12] <danieldaniel> i got it from the site
[1:12] <passstab> good
[1:12] <danieldaniel> but what do I do with it :(
[1:13] <passstab> probably put it on the sd?
[1:13] * danieldaniel tries
[1:13] <danieldaniel> where?
[1:13] <danieldaniel> oh
[1:13] <danieldaniel> i know
[1:14] <passstab> yea read the end of those instructions
[1:14] <Cheery> could probe what there are on hardware in raspberry..
[1:14] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] <danieldaniel> doesn't help much
[1:14] <danieldaniel> its a file system
[1:14] <danieldaniel> '
[1:15] <danieldaniel> I am trying to do dd on it
[1:15] <danieldaniel> it seems to be working
[1:16] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[1:17] <passstab> kool
[1:17] * passstab will probably try that someday
[1:18] <danieldaniel> although, "it seems to be working" is always a bad thing to say
[1:18] <danieldaniel> the next thing you know
[1:18] <danieldaniel> BOOM
[1:19] <passstab> is that still hypothetical?
[1:20] <danieldaniel> the ext2 and dd?
[1:20] <Cheery> seems like I can connect both UART and TTL into raspberry
[1:20] <danieldaniel> i think its working
[1:20] <Cheery> and I guess I will. :)
[1:21] <danieldaniel> :O
[1:21] <danieldaniel> http://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/smra6/teh_glowing_uraniumz/
[1:21] <danieldaniel> 21 up votes :D
[1:21] * d3p1 (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:22] * d3p1 (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:22] <a_c_r_> anyone else have a pi and a multimeter?
[1:23] <danieldaniel> I do
[1:23] <danieldaniel> if I can find my multimeter
[1:23] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:23] <a_c_r_> can you probe TP1 & TP2 while its booted and relatively idle?
[1:23] <danieldaniel> I can't boot it up
[1:23] <a_c_r_> oh
[1:23] <danieldaniel> when I get it to boot up
[1:23] <danieldaniel> I will XD
[1:23] <a_c_r_> ok... how about just not booted but powered on?
[1:24] <danieldaniel> does there have to be an SD card?
[1:24] <a_c_r_> nah
[1:24] <danieldaniel> I'm kinda in the middle of a dd
[1:24] <danieldaniel> ok
[1:24] <danieldaniel> let me pull out my multimeter
[1:24] * {p120d16y} (~p120d16y@ip72-193-46-169.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:25] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@31.6.61.147) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:25] <danieldaniel> do I use the red or the blue one?
[1:25] <danieldaniel> and what setting?
[1:25] <a_c_r_> blue?
[1:25] <a_c_r_> voltage
[1:25] <a_c_r_> range to capture ~5V
[1:25] <Hydrazine> 4.69V between them here
[1:25] <a_c_r_> ground on TP2
[1:25] <a_c_r_> k
[1:25] <danieldaniel> ok
[1:25] <danieldaniel> one sec
[1:26] <danieldaniel> oh
[1:26] <a_c_r_> I'm getting 4.61
[1:26] <danieldaniel> I meant red and black
[1:26] <a_c_r_> and at the uUSB port, 4.745ish
[1:26] <a_c_r_> which means I'm getting 250mV drop on the usb cable/connector
[1:27] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-64-169-154-39.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:27] <danieldaniel> I suck at it
[1:27] <danieldaniel> I can't find tp2
[1:27] <a_c_r_> well, loss is loss. I'm just surprised its that high!
[1:27] <a_c_r_> tp2 is between hdmi & usb power supply
[1:27] <Hydrazine> danieldaniel: between the TV-out and the pin headers
[1:27] <a_c_r_> err tp1
[1:27] <Hydrazine> -_-
[1:27] <a_c_r_> yeah, what Hydrazine said
[1:28] <a_c_r_> oh well, either way. we'll just live with it.
[1:29] <Cheery> I have one USB to TTL cable, which came along nerdkit
[1:29] <danieldaniel> I'm getting around 4.7
[1:29] <a_c_r_> k
[1:29] * d3p1 (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[1:29] * d3p1` (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:30] <a_c_r_> about the same
[1:30] * d3p1` (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:30] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:30] <danieldaniel> brb
[1:30] * decadance_ is now known as decadance
[1:32] * d3p1 (~pc@unaffiliated/d3p1) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:34] <danieldaniel> the dd didn't work
[1:34] <danieldaniel> :(
[1:35] <a_c_r_> haha.
[1:35] <a_c_r_> ok
[1:36] <a_c_r_> at around 4-4.1 supply voltage, the SMSC chip drops out
[1:36] <a_c_r_> core voltage as measured at C16 is still ~1.2V
[1:36] <a_c_r_> I really need a serial console to test this any further
[1:37] <a_c_r_> i guess something repetitive on the HDMI would work too
[1:37] <a_c_r_> but if I lose USB and network at 4V, it'll be kinda hard to test when the core drops out
[1:38] <passstab> :(
[1:38] <passstab> why not?
[1:39] <SpeedEvil> a_c_r_: not reallt
[1:39] <SpeedEvil> y
[1:39] <SpeedEvil> a_c_r_: audio out, or alternatively simply drop the voltage, and see if it's carried on running
[1:40] <SpeedEvil> play a video, for example
[1:41] * M0RBD (m0rbd@chuck.angrysmiley.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:41] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:43] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:43] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410.student.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:44] * M0RBD (m0rbd@chuck.angrysmiley.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Changing host)
[1:45] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:47] <a_c_r_> yeah
[1:47] <a_c_r_> need to play a video
[1:47] <a_c_r_> or I'll just write a simple counter
[1:47] <a_c_r_> i suspect that peripherals in the SoC will die at different voltages
[1:47] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[1:49] * mikos (~mikos@188-223-31-58.zone14.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] <Cheery> http://www.usbmax.com/TTL-232R-3V3-WE_USB_to_Serial_(TTL_level)_converter_cable_3.3Volt_6ft._Long.cfm
[1:54] <Cheery> hmm.. that's only 3.3 volt. :/
[1:54] <Cheery> maybe this cable I have is UART..
[1:54] <a_c_r_> ?
[1:55] <ReggieUK> you might be able to reconfigure power on it if you're lucky
[1:55] * M0RBD_ (m0rbd@chuck.angrysmiley.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:55] <ReggieUK> depends what pins are easily exposed on the chip
[1:55] <ReggieUK> ftdi in general use a voltage level to drive the IO
[1:56] <Cheery> well my cable is giving me +5V
[1:57] <ReggieUK> then it's not that cable that you linked to :D
[1:57] <a_c_r_> are you powering the ?? with that?
[1:57] <a_c_r_> or just using it for uart
[1:57] <Cheery> of course not. I'm not silly enough for using that for powering :)
[1:57] <ReggieUK> then again, it depends where you're measuring 5v from
[1:57] <ReggieUK> where did you get your cable from?
[1:57] <Cheery> ReggieUK: I have the one from nerdkits
[1:57] <ReggieUK> got a link
[1:58] <Cheery> it gives me +5V between.. were it red or black wires?
[1:58] <Cheery> *and
[1:58] * M0RBD (m0rbd@chuck.angrysmiley.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:58] <Cheery> http://www.nerdkits.com/store/
[1:58] <Cheery> it says: "Assembled and tested USB to Serial adapter with TTL-voltage levels and 4-wire cable"
[1:59] <ReggieUK> Prolific PL2303 chipset
[1:59] <ReggieUK> so its a completely different cable to the one you linked to :)
[1:59] <Cheery> apparently..
[1:59] <Cheery> but also they both are UART?
[1:59] <ReggieUK> I take it you need 3.3v io levels?
[2:00] <ReggieUK> they're both serial :)
[2:00] <a_c_r_> I can't imagine what else it would be
[2:00] <a_c_r_> it uses the pl2303
[2:01] <Cheery> oh.. I need an UART which gives me 3.3v :(
[2:01] <Cheery> so exactly the one I was looking at.. and not this.
[2:02] <ReggieUK> don't panic :)
[2:02] <ReggieUK> you just need a couple of resistors to drop teh voltage level from the TX of the cable to the RX pin of the pi :)
[2:03] <ReggieUK> 3.3k and 1.6k should do it
[2:03] <Cheery> wouldn't it be simpler to buy just 3.3v UART?
[2:04] <ReggieUK> depends how you define simple
[2:04] <Cheery> hmm.. so 3.3k and 1.6k...
[2:04] <Cheery> well I have a breadboard there so I guess I could...
[2:05] <ReggieUK> 3.3k and 1.8k will do it
[2:05] <Cheery> though I don't have 3.3k or 1.8k resistors I guess..
[2:06] <ReggieUK> they don't specifically have to be 3.3k and 1.8k
[2:06] <ReggieUK> but they do need to be the right pair of values to drop from 5v to 3.3v
[2:06] <ReggieUK> http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/potential-divider-calculator.php
[2:06] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:07] <ReggieUK> bottom calc out of the 3 is better
[2:07] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:07] <Cheery> 3.3k and 1.8k ... they sum to 5k.
[2:07] <ReggieUK> you could also use 330ohms and 180ohms
[2:07] <ReggieUK> they sum to 5.1k
[2:07] * anon90021 (~anon@KYM5298.rh.psu.edu) Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[2:08] <ReggieUK> you could also use r2 = 2k and r1 = 1k
[2:09] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:10] <wcchandler> has anybody gotten uboot to work on the pi? is it even possible?
[2:10] <ReggieUK> not sure if anyone has looked yet
[2:10] <ReggieUK> might be a wee bit of work
[2:11] <ReggieUK> I don't think there are any other matching targets in uboot, so someone would be starting from scratch
[2:11] <wcchandler> oh boy
[2:11] <ReggieUK> unless broadcom used 'parts' inside their chip that are used on other parts
[2:12] <ReggieUK> like usb, networking, sd etc.
[2:12] <ReggieUK> then we could possibly rob code from other devices
[2:12] <wcchandler> mm-hmm
[2:13] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:14] <ReggieUK> might be able to use the kernel startup code for part of it
[2:14] * RITRedbeard__ (~RITReadbe@t410.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:16] <wcchandler> hmm... not sure I'm quite ready to tear into that
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[2:16] <hamitron> that is the only interesting bit that makes me want one
[2:16] * {p120d16y} (~p120d16y@ip72-193-46-169.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:16] <hamitron> ;)
[2:16] <Cheery> ReggieUK: you know where could I find out the instructions on how to make that UART 'port' into the raspberry pi?
[2:16] <ReggieUK> which, uboot?
[2:17] <ReggieUK> Cheery, it's not really something that needs a tutorial, you just need to buy some header pins and solder it in
[2:17] * bnmorgan- (~bnmorgan@216.119.188.115) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:18] <Cheery> ReggieUK: it needs soldering.. as it isn't one of those pins that push out from rpi?
[2:18] * koda (~vittorio@host129-223-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:18] <BenO> You can use any 0.1 inch connector
[2:18] <BenO> Like from an old floppy cable
[2:19] <BenO> then, strip the wires you want to use for UART and connect them to the serial connector
[2:19] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[2:19] <BenO> well, to be clear, I mean strip the wires connecting to the UART pins and use them
[2:19] <BenO> http://elinux.org/Rpi_Low-level_peripherals Pinout
[2:20] <Cheery> BenO: so all I need is in that GPIO headers?
[2:20] <BenO> For UART, yes
[2:20] <Cheery> nice
[2:20] * bnmorgan- is now known as bnmorgan
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[2:20] <Cheery> and I can just pick some old IDE port and cannibalize it.
[2:21] <Cheery> and then make the voltage divider circuit on the breadboard, which ReggieUK instructed..
[2:21] <ReggieUK> oh my bad, the gpio pins are already installed, i didn't think they were shipping the pi with them already soldered in
[2:21] <BenO> Yep - very handy
[2:21] * M0RBD_ (m0rbd@chuck.angrysmiley.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:22] * KaiNeR (~KaiNeR@31.6.22.143) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:22] <Cheery> I still wonder about just picking that 3.3v UART.. but if that potential divider circuit works...
[2:22] <BenO> I don't think an old IDE cable works, due to the filled in socket halfway along (IIRC) but floppy cables work fine
[2:23] <Cheery> I'm not sure I find an old floppy cable...
[2:23] <Cheery> unless I make a trip to a recycling station.
[2:23] <BenO> Cheery, You really don't want to bridge certain of the pins on that header while it is running
[2:23] * nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:24] <BenO> You might want to use some electrical tape to insulate any wires you wrap around the pins in that case
[2:24] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@unaffiliated/hopsy) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[2:24] <ReggieUK> tbh just get some jumper cables
[2:24] <ReggieUK> got any old PCs knocking around?
[2:25] <Cheery> I have one.. but it's still working. I guess I threw away the very old ones year or two ago
[2:25] <ReggieUK> if so then you will usually find those kinds of jumpers connected to the jumper block on a motherboard
[2:25] <ReggieUK> or a mate with and old junk pc
[2:25] <ReggieUK> or make a trip to the recycling station :D
[2:25] <hamitron> which is probably faster than the r-pi
[2:25] <hamitron> ;)
[2:25] * neciO (~juan@d51A446F4.access.telenet.be) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[2:26] <hamitron> a lot of pata drives have them
[2:26] <ReggieUK> cheery, there's another lesson learnt, don't throw old junk out unless you've scavenged it for parts and cables :)
[2:26] <hamitron> :)
[2:27] * hamitron just doesn't throw stuff out
[2:27] <ReggieUK> well, yeah that too
[2:27] <hamitron> you always regret it later
[2:27] <hamitron> normally 5-6 weeks later I find :/
[2:27] <Cheery> well I might find a pata driver port
[2:27] <BenO> Yep - electrical packrats forever ;)
[2:27] <hamitron> although, I'm starting to get lazy for electronic bits
[2:27] <hamitron> just buy new
[2:28] <Cheery> yeah.. that may be the answer
[2:28] <Cheery> I'll use the UART to connect rpi to the computer. so that I can write an interactive prompt for osdeving
[2:29] <Cheery> but wondering whether it'd be too hard to just do LAN.
[2:29] <Cheery> I remember UART is simpler to program though.
[2:30] <Cheery> .. and I can remove UART once the IP stack is in place. ^^
[2:34] <Cheery> getting to sleep. .)
[2:34] <Cheery> thinking about this again once I'll get my pi.
[2:34] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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[2:46] <wcchandler> can I manually add a user to a debian system with no password, by editing the passwd?
[2:47] <SpeedEvil> adduser
[2:48] <a_c_r_> so... power.
[2:48] <wcchandler> don't have access to that
[2:48] <SpeedEvil> you need to make the passwd line, the shadow line (if any), the homedir - with permissions
[2:48] <tpresence> no access to adduser?
[2:48] <wcchandler> heh, yeah
[2:48] <tpresence> how?
[2:48] <wcchandler> chrooted environment
[2:49] <SpeedEvil> copy it over
[2:49] <SpeedEvil> adduser
[2:49] <wcchandler> i have no local access or ssh, but I have access to its files
[2:49] <SpeedEvil> ah
[2:49] <a_c_r_> SMSC chip becomes very unhappy around 3.6V
[2:49] <tpresence> you can edit the entry in /etc/shadow
[2:49] <SpeedEvil> a_c_r_: the ethernet?
[2:49] <a_c_r_> 3.624
[2:49] <a_c_r_> yeah
[2:49] <a_c_r_> and USB
[2:50] <wcchandler> for root and remove the password?
[2:50] * RITRedbeard (RITReadbea@t410.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:50] <SpeedEvil> a_c_r_: USB will die at around there - USB signalling voltages go to ~3.3 IIRC
[2:50] <a_c_r_> at 3.6V, the 3v3 rail shows 2.607v and the core is still at 1.214
[2:50] <SpeedEvil> And so will the ethernet
[2:50] <a_c_r_> makes sense
[2:50] <SpeedEvil> - as it's USB
[2:50] <wcchandler> root:!*:15452:0:99999:7:::
[2:50] <wcchandler> in shadow
[2:50] <a_c_r_> then at 3.5V under full load, the core hangs
[2:51] <SpeedEvil> Probably objecting to some unit faulting.
[2:51] <a_c_r_> thats 2.5V on the 3v3 rail
[2:51] <a_c_r_> core still shows 1.215v
[2:51] <a_c_r_> yeah
[2:51] <a_c_r_> could be lots of things
[2:51] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[2:51] <SpeedEvil> Some even software fixable.
[2:52] <a_c_r_> perhaps
[2:52] <SpeedEvil> wcchandler: add a user on your own box - copy the passwd and shadow lines over
[2:52] <SpeedEvil> With a proper datasheet :/
[2:53] <SpeedEvil> So you can 'safely' save 20% or so by running it from 4V.
[2:53] <a_c_r_> should have checked the 1v8 regulator output
[2:53] <a_c_r_> 4v seems short-term stable
[2:53] <SpeedEvil> Does it use 5V at all - for anything - internally?
[2:54] <a_c_r_> i assume yes
[2:54] <a_c_r_> if nothing else, for the USB
[2:54] <a_c_r_> there is definitely a 5v going into the broadcom on the schematics
[2:54] <a_c_r_> it takes 5v, 3v3 & 1v8
[2:55] <a_c_r_> then generates 1v2 for the core
[3:00] <a_c_r_> somewhere there is 2v5
[3:01] <a_c_r_> ahhh... that's for the DAC
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[3:01] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:01] <a_c_r_> need to play some audio and see how it responds to an undervoltage
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[3:05] <tpresence> glitching?
[3:06] <a_c_r_> not quite to that level of precision
[3:08] <wcchandler> if I grab the kernel source from git here: https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux.git then compile it, what will I end up with? the same thing as kernel.img?
[3:08] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-216-218-62.lnse3.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:09] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:10] <BenO> wcchandler, You'll get a normal linux kernel
[3:10] <BenO> wcchandler, See the bottom of http://elinux.org/Rpi_kernel_compilation for the final step to create a kernel.img from that
[3:10] <wcchandler> BenO: that's the part that made me wonder what was up :P
[3:11] <wcchandler> i have custom initramfs that I need to wrap around the kernel and make my own img (I think)
[3:12] <BenO> You don't need the ramfs...
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[3:12] <wcchandler> BenO: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/LTSPArm
[3:12] <BenO> Just grab the 'Image' (not the zImage) and run the tool on it and boom, 'kernel.img' to copy across
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[3:15] <BenO> wcchandler, not sure how to get the usb network driver in - but this may be an Efika MX specific step?
[3:16] <wcchandler> BenO: yeah, I was hoping I could do enough hacking and get something working
[3:17] <BenO> wcchandler, It is likely that you'd need something from the SD to init the eth/usb chip and then pull an image off the network to boot
[3:17] <RITRedbeard> I'm assuming I can't walk into Walmart and get a Raspberry Pi yet.
[3:18] * RITRedbeard sets his alarm forward another 20 years
[3:18] <wcchandler> yeah it looks like they're using uboot to handle the "network" side of things
[3:19] <wcchandler> or at least getting it up and going
[3:19] <BenO> wcchandler, I would guess that a minimal image on the SD card would be fine too, seeing as RasPi doesn't do PXE
[3:21] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[3:28] <wcchandler> is the reason I don't *need* a ramfs because the kernel initializes it for me?
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[3:31] * jgeboski (~jgeboski@unaffiliated/jgeboski) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:34] <wcchandler> my mind is back in track... yes, it needs a ramfs on the server, as it loads the kernel from the server
[3:35] <wcchandler> just doing an nfsroot=ltsp_server should be fine if it then forces it to load the new kernel, which it should
[3:35] <wcchandler> so then all I need to do is compile a kernel, not an .img
[3:36] <wcchandler> not sure what to do with for the initramfs though... that might be from the ltsp server
[3:37] <wcchandler> mkimage can run on the server to create my ramfs
[3:37] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
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[3:40] <BenO> Just recompile a kernel to include the options nfsboot requires, and create a kernel.img to boot with from that
[3:41] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-64-169-154-39.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
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[3:42] <BenO> and then you'll be able to see what needs to be added :)
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[3:45] <wcchandler> is there a limit to how many kernels you boot? could you indefinitely boot off random kernels?
[3:45] <wcchandler> and just whipe out whatever the previous one did
[3:47] <wcchandler> BenO: yeah, that's where I am now.. I have it booting to NFS share off the pi's sd card. Now I just need another kernel to sit on my other nfs that gets reloaded after mounting. Then I think the network stack sits on the server
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[3:49] * wej (~j@95.211.10.3) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[3:49] <BenO> wcchandler, Is there a benefit to double loading the kernel?
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[4:00] <wcchandler> BenO: from my understanding it first initializes the host hardware (on the pi) then when it loads the second kernel it initializes the server hardware (ltsp server)
[4:00] <wcchandler> I could be totally off though :/
[4:01] <wcchandler> and the simpler your questions become the more obvious it is that I have no idea what I'm talking about
[4:02] <mozzwald> wcchandler: what are you trying to do?
[4:03] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:03] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[4:05] <mozzwald> bbiab
[4:07] <wcchandler> mozzwald: ltsp thin-client with raspberry pi
[4:08] <BenO> wcchandler, http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=IntegratingLtsp I think that with a nfsroot capable kernel.img on the SD, you might quite far down the list of things to do
[4:09] <BenO> The etherboot of a second kernel is handy for when you want to handle version updates and so on
[4:10] <wcchandler> BenO: that's a really outdated article ;)
[4:11] <BenO> wcchandler, it's direct from the http://ltsp.org/ documentation
[4:11] <wcchandler> etherboot is essentially pxe booting, no?
[4:11] <wcchandler> which isn't supported by arm
[4:12] <wcchandler> BenO: yeah they rely more on the various distro's implementation of LTSP
[4:12] <BenO> I think the majority of LTSP is wound up in the various scripts
[4:12] <wcchandler> yeah.. the only magic sauce is the ltsp-client stuff
[4:12] <BenO> In that, given the scripts, having a network boot is icing on the cake
[4:12] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm... porting stuff to OpenGL ES 2.0 isn't as straight forward as I tought it would be. =(
[4:13] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, I bought a handy book for that :)
[4:13] <BenO> In fact, that is the main personal reason I got the Pi
[4:13] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, ooh, what's the book?
[4:13] <BenO> To convert the OpenGL I know to OpenGL ES 2.0
[4:14] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:14] <nrdb> does someone have ltsp working?
[4:14] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, http://opengles-book.com/
[4:15] <BenO> In fact, I think the samples are in the linux or firmware repos already ;)
[4:15] <BenO> http://code.google.com/p/opengles-book-samples/
[4:15] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, that's perfect. Thanks.
[4:16] <BenO> I learnt from the red book, and this seemed to match that in style
[4:16] <BenO> As I said though, I've spent more time kicking the tires and bughunting than... In fact, I've only just cracked the spine on this book!
[4:17] <wcchandler> nrdb: not sure, I've been working pretty heavily on it this weekend
[4:17] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, have you got the kindle version or proper?
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[4:17] <BenO> proper paper version
[4:18] <ShiftPlusOne> ok
[4:18] <wcchandler> but I was going from scratch with a hodgepodge of resources and experience from 5 years ago on a seperate OS/implementation :P
[4:19] <nrdb> wcchandler, that is one thing I would very much like to see working... does it network boot? or is the client stuff on the SD card
[4:19] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, I knew I spotted them before: https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/hardfp/opt/vc/src/hello_pi/opengles-book-samples-read-only
[4:19] <wcchandler> I do have it booting from the ltsp server, it's just not initializing the hardware on it or reloading the kernel/initrd
[4:19] <wcchandler> nrdb: on the sd card is the default .img with nfsroot=ltsp_server:/nfs/share
[4:20] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, are those ported to the raspi?
[4:20] <nrdb> wcchandler, great!
[4:20] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4dbc7779.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:21] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, I have no idea if they build on the rpi - I just remember stumbling on them
[4:21] <BenO> The Linux X11 version I would expect to work near OOTB
[4:21] <wcchandler> nrdb: are you familiar with ltsp? (please say yes)
[4:22] <nrdb> wcchandler, yes! ... I maintain a computer system with about 10 LTSP terminals for a company I do consultancy for.
[4:22] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, nope, the raspi egl library isn't X11 aware, so it needs some extra stuff.... not too much.
[4:22] <wcchandler> nrdb: great!
[4:23] <wcchandler> you happen to have an arm chroot?
[4:23] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, check the /opt/vc/src hello triangle example.
[4:23] <nrdb> wcchandler, join rip-ltsp
[4:25] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, I'm guessing bcm_host_init(); is the key bit of secret sauce
[4:26] <BenO> And the vc_* function calls in the init too
[4:26] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, yup, plus all that vc stuff. I haven't looked too much at that other part yet. Just waiting for the pi first... then getting SDL 1.2 working with GLES on the pi and going from there.
[4:27] <BenO> What have the Q3 SDL libs had done to them already? A quick hack to get Q3 running?
[4:28] <ShiftPlusOne> Q3?
[4:28] <BenO> https://github.com/raspberrypi/quake3/tree/master/lib
[4:28] <ShiftPlusOne> ah right
[4:28] <ShiftPlusOne> interesting
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[4:30] <BenO> time to grep-hunt those terms ;)
[4:30] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, I suppose the advantage of the way I am doing it is that I can use the same lib on x86 (with the mesa es libs) and the pi.
[4:31] <ShiftPlusOne> without needing to modify the code of the software using them.
[4:31] * zer0her0 (~zer0her0@cpe-74-76-225-89.nycap.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[4:32] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, there doesn't look like there are many Rpi-centric additions
[4:32] * zer0her0 (~zer0her0@cpe-74-76-225-89.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[4:33] <BenO> One call to bcm_host_init() in code/sys/sys_main.c
[4:34] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, yup, I am not sure how the Q3 code looks, I can't find all the init stuff while skimming it. So it's quite possible it will work on x86 as well and my hopes and dreams for my sdl_gles port are pointless.
[4:34] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, It looks like most of it has been pushed into the SDL libs
[4:35] <ShiftPlusOne> excellent
[4:35] <BenO> .. for which I can't spot the source for
[4:35] <ShiftPlusOne> except that the standard desktop version SDL still doesn't work with ES without patches.
[4:35] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:35] <ShiftPlusOne> AFAIK
[4:36] <BenO> "../../../../interface/khronos/include" seems to play a role in that
[4:37] <BenO> https://github.com/raspberrypi/quake3/blob/master/README_VC <-- is the only docs on changes I can spot
[4:37] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[4:38] <ShiftPlusOne> doesn't seem too informative
[4:38] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:40] <BenO> SDL is LGPL - if they've made changes, we should be able to ask for the source I believe
[4:41] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah, if they have distributed the lib outside of the organization... which they have.
[4:41] <BenO> Indeed
[4:41] <BenO> Time to add an issue :)
[4:42] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[4:44] <BenO> There, a nice, open, question about the libraries
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[4:46] <a_c_r_> so has anyone tried compiling that Quake 3?
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[4:47] <BenO> a_c_r_, It does compile and run
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[4:48] <BenO> A colleague did it a while back
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[4:49] <a_c_r_> i'm compiling it now
[4:49] <a_c_r_> will comment back on the results
[4:49] <BenO> :)
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[4:54] <a_c_r_> sys_main.c:(.text+0x984): undefined reference to `bcm_host_init'
[4:54] * nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[4:55] <ShiftPlusOne> you forgot to include the lib
[4:56] <ShiftPlusOne> -lbcm_host
[4:56] * machine5 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[4:56] <a_c_r_> hrmmm.
[4:56] <a_c_r_> cool
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[4:56] <BenO> There is a build script IIRC
[4:57] <ShiftPlusOne> a_c_r_, are you using debian?
[4:57] <BenO> https://github.com/raspberrypi/quake3/blob/master/build.sh should be all you need according to the brief docs
[4:57] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) Quit (Quit: This here's FiftyOneFifty on the side. We gone, bye bye)
[4:58] <a_c_r_> debian, yes.
[4:58] <BenO> a_c_r_, look to the top of the build.sh - you need to point the ARM_LIBS var to the right path
[4:58] <ShiftPlusOne> "-L$SDL_LIB -lSDL -lvchostif -lvmcs_rpc_client -lvcfiled_check -lbcm_host -lkhrn_static -lvchiq_arm -lopenmaxil -lEGL -lGLESv2 -lrt"
[4:58] <ShiftPlusOne> "
[4:59] <a_c_r_> BenO: i didn't see that one. README & README_VC is overrated. cd quake;make!
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[4:59] <BenO> a_c_r_, :)
[4:59] * a_c_r_ is now known as a_c_r
[5:01] <BenO> I might try a native hardfp build of that... hmmm
[5:03] <a_c_r> hardfp = native hardware floating point?
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[5:04] <mkopack> a_c_r: Yes that's the hardfp
[5:04] <mkopack> '
[5:05] <a_c_r> cool.
[5:06] <a_c_r> so that build.sh is set up for cross compiling.
[5:06] <a_c_r> which, while intelligent, i haven't done yet for the pi.
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[5:07] <BenO> There is a toolchain in the 'tools' github, but I've not looked at that
[5:07] <a_c_r> yeah. saw that earlier. will have to play with it.
[5:07] <BenO> There is also a crazy person who is attempting to make an entire armv6 hardfp debian distro himself
[5:07] <BenO> from scratch
[5:07] <BenO> well, 'scratch' - it's still a mammoth task
[5:09] <a_c_r> yes... that sounds crazy. Seems more reasonable to iterate.
[5:10] <BenO> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/projects-and-collaboration-general/debian-hard-float-armhf-for-rpi/page-12 this guy
[5:10] <BenO> "mpthompson"
[5:10] * e04mk (~e04mk@s83-177-174-13.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[5:13] <a_c_r> wow.
[5:14] <BenO> Yeah, pretty insane, but very useful
[5:14] <mkopack> Eh, if he gets it working, and it performs significantly better than the softfp, you'll thank him
[5:14] <BenO> It certainly does, and I've already thanked him :)
[5:14] <BenO> It doesn't change that it is a crazy and awesome thing to attempt!
[5:15] <a_c_r> OK. It makes more sense now.
[5:15] <a_c_r> the Debian build just uses generic arm compiler/libraries
[5:16] <BenO> eg povray benchmark - hardfp, armv6 = 6hrs20 complete but on stock with recommended tunings for softfp, etc - "9:09:07 Rendering line 58 of 384, 1206 supersamples"
[5:16] <a_c_r> yeah, using the harware is a good idea.
[5:16] <a_c_r> haha. damn
[5:16] <BenO> a_c_r, it also uses armv4 ABI too
[5:16] <BenO> I've killed the benchmark, as I think the point has been made now :)
[5:17] <BenO> (plus I want to build quake3 ;))
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[5:17] <a_c_r> I'm worried about my Q3 build.
[5:17] <a_c_r> I got the warning, but it didn't error out... yet.
[5:18] <a_c_r> If it actually compiles, I will likely be unproductive for several hours.
[5:18] <BenO> have you got the base game files?
[5:18] <a_c_r> somewhere
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[5:19] <a_c_r> I may just download the demo and extract them
[5:26] <tpresence> quake 3 isnt THAT fun
[5:26] <tpresence> now hunt or a mud :D
[5:27] <a_c_r> I prefer the classics... Quake I.
[5:27] * Caje (~chatzilla@CPE185933461d28-CM185933461d25.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:27] <tpresence> why not doom then :D
[5:27] <ShiftPlusOne> why not wolfenstein 3d then?
[5:27] <a_c_r> easy. no Ziggurat Vertigo.
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[5:30] <mozzwald> why not Mazewar then :P
[5:30] <tpresence> hunt
[5:30] <tpresence> or corewar
[5:30] <tpresence> or star trek if you really want to go back...that and space war
[5:31] <BenO> You've just reminded me - I need to apt-get install nethack ;)
[5:31] <BenO> or get dwarffortress
[5:32] <ShiftPlusOne> woo... dwarffortress!
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[5:37] <BenO> NOOO! there is no nethack in the hardfp repos! Woe! Misery!
[5:37] * GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:38] <tpresence> lol
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[5:44] <ShiftPlusOne> BenO, You'll just have to go with softfp and deal with all the lag.
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[5:45] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, pfffffff hardfp convert now. Never gonna go back
[5:46] <ShiftPlusOne> heh, ok
[5:46] <BenO> Finger's crossed I can get the firmware repo before the eth/usb bug rears its head...
[5:47] <BenO> dammit
[5:47] * RITRedbeard__ (RITReadbea@t410.student.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:47] <ShiftPlusOne> what's the bug?
[5:48] <BenO> https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/9
[5:48] <BenO> Heavy use of eth when rootfs is also on USB -> can trigger a kernel panic
[5:49] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm =/
[5:50] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[5:52] <ShiftPlusOne> +D
[5:52] <ShiftPlusOne> =D even
[5:52] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@129.21.105.152) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:52] <ShiftPlusOne> RASPBERRY-PI RASPBRRY-PCBA 1 0 23 Apr 2012 Complete
[5:52] <ShiftPlusOne> Looks like I should be getting a pi soon
[5:54] <BenO> Yay :)
[5:54] * RITRedbeard__ (RITReadbea@t410.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:59] <tpresence> kick ass
[6:00] <ShiftPlusOne> Anyone used a Kingston 8GB class 10?
[6:00] <ShiftPlusOne> "Kinston 8GB ultimateX 120X" ?
[6:00] <BenO> No, but there are two things that worry me on that already
[6:00] <ShiftPlusOne> class 10 and kingston?
[6:00] <BenO> indeed
[6:01] <tpresence> lol
[6:01] <tpresence> I havent had issue with my class 10s
[6:01] <ShiftPlusOne> damn... I've got 3 of them. Ah well, we'll see when (or if) I get my pi tomorrow
[6:01] <BenO> But the class 10 thing is what I've heard - I haven't seen much confirmation about it
[6:01] <BenO> tpresence, good so it's likely anecdotal :)
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[6:02] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, it's just that the Kingston ones tend to be fibbers about their capability and geared heavily towards large-files accessed sequentially
[6:02] <BenO> rather than random access of lots of small files (as a rootfs tends towards)
[6:02] <tpresence> so whats supposed to eb the best sd
[6:03] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't tend to look at listed specs on hardware
[6:03] <BenO> No idea - what it says on the branding doesn't mean it has good internals
[6:03] <a_c_r> SanDisk Ultra Extreme ??ber1337
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[6:04] <a_c_r> the best bet is to get off of the SD asap
[6:04] <a_c_r> load the kernel and then switch over to something on USB. fast USB flash or USB HD
[6:04] <BenO> normal q3 compile warns a bunch, but it's continuing...
[6:04] <a_c_r> yeah
[6:05] <a_c_r> same here
[6:05] <BenO> I could be some time (doing it on the Pi)
[6:05] <a_c_r> actually, a few warnings, but not too many
[6:05] <a_c_r> me too
[6:05] <tpresence> I have a 2tb usb hd, but my guess is that it wont be fast
[6:05] <tpresence> plus it makes it much larger :D
[6:05] <a_c_r> it'll probably saturate the pi
[6:05] <ShiftPlusOne> damn, now I am all excited for tomorrow
[6:06] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't like it
[6:06] * s[x] (~sx]@ppp59-167-154-113.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:06] <BenO> bugger... forgot to set swap up for this build...
[6:06] <BenO> finger's crossed
[6:06] <a_c_r> Bummer that you know in advance.
[6:07] <a_c_r> Mine just showed up. DHL woke me up.
[6:07] <ShiftPlusOne> Wonder if that's shipped from overseas or from their Australia center
[6:07] <a_c_r> ShiftPlusOne: you ordered from Element14 .au?
[6:07] <BenO> ShiftPlusOne, they employ Eben lookalikes to go distribute them
[6:07] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah
[6:07] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[6:07] <s[x]> ditto
[6:08] <a_c_r> that's positive.
[6:08] * Reggie__ (ReggieUK@5aca56a2.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[6:09] <mozzwald> BenO: have you measured current draw with your usb problem?
[6:09] <s[x]> my order is still processing :P
[6:10] <a_c_r> my element14.au order is still processing too
[6:11] * FACEFOX-DOT-COM (~gfdffdfd@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[6:11] <s[x]> i cant say im sitting my door waiting for it but i wouldnt mind playing with
[6:11] <BenO> mozzwald, no, but I've raised it with Dom
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[6:13] <mozzwald> k. i'm still having usb issues and tested current. pi only pulls 500mA when I have usb problems so i think it's kernel issue
[6:13] <ShiftPlusOne> I ordered within the first 4 minutes, so I'd expect the others are coming soon as well
[6:14] <a_c_r> Q3 compile finished
[6:16] <mozzwald> I have powered hub with mouse and usb powered hard drive connected. all is well until I connect any other networking device it seems. tried 2 diff wifi sticks and usb ethernet
[6:16] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[6:17] <mkopack> LOL, my Newark expected ship date went back to Aug 15. I swear their system doesn't have a clue :)
[6:17] <ShiftPlusOne> mkopack, have you got one from RS already?
[6:18] <mkopack> mozzwald: are you sure your powered hub has enough juice? Using a USB powered hard drive pulls a LOT.
[6:18] <BenO> mozzwald, can you add to https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/9 or if your problem is different, add another issue?
[6:18] <mkopack> ShiftPlusOne: Nope! I registered interest with RS UK within the first 2 minutes of the site going live and haven't heard boo from them since. I've long since given up on RS.
[6:18] <mkopack> Anyhow, time for bed. Later gang!
[6:18] * mkopack (~mkopack@c-24-98-202-47.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
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[6:20] <mozzwald> if I remove usb hard drive and plug in network device I have same problems.
[6:21] <mozzwald> BenO: my problem doesn't seem to be with storage devices, but network devices.
[6:22] <mozzwald> i need to hookup serial and log kernel output
[6:22] <mozzwald> dmesg gives a lot of DEBUG:handle_hc_chhltd_intr_dma:: XactErr without NYET/NAK/ACK
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[6:23] * Orb (~orb_@c-98-220-131-179.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[6:25] <shirro> Hmmm. What does status Complete mean in Element 14?
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[6:27] <shirro> \o/
[6:27] <a_c_r> shirro: it means you will soon be happy or disappointed! :-)
[6:27] <shirro> can't it be both?
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[6:28] <shirro> This isn't may. So does that mean the Australian allocation of the first 2000 is only now going out?
[6:29] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-58-8-51-6.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:29] <ShiftPlusOne> I'd check if you bank account has been charged
[6:30] <shirro> It says shipped today in my order so I think I can safely assume it is on its way.
[6:30] <ShiftPlusOne> It says so on mine as well
[6:30] <shirro> Congrats
[6:31] <ShiftPlusOne> But it hasn't shown up on netbank yet
[6:31] <ShiftPlusOne> so I am trying not to get my hopes up
[6:31] <shirro> Visa takes awhile to show up sometimes for me
[6:32] <ShiftPlusOne> I just bought a book for my kindle and that's already on my statement
[6:32] <ShiftPlusOne> ah well, we'll see tomorrow I guess
[6:32] <shirro> Probably Wednesday for me. SA country :-(
[6:33] <cjbaird> Still "Processing" here ;_;
[6:33] <cjbaird> "Complete" on element14.com.au means "We've handed it over to Australia Post and it's no longer our problem" :)
[6:34] <a_c_r> mmmm, quake 3 lives
[6:34] <shirro> For the record my order time was 29/02/2012 17:12. If you beat that in .au you are probably due for a package
[6:34] <ShiftPlusOne> cjbaird, they don't ship through australia post, they fedex stuff.
[6:34] <ShiftPlusOne> cjbaird, unless that has changed in the last few months
[6:35] <ShiftPlusOne> actually it wasn't fedex, it was DHL
[6:35] <ShiftPlusOne> IIRC
[6:35] <shirro> Fedex will hand off to AAE for me.
[6:35] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-58-8-51-6.revip2.asianet.co.th) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:36] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: what was your order time?
[6:36] <ShiftPlusOne> 4 minutes and 25 seconds
[6:37] <shirro> Nice. cjbaird what about yours?
[6:37] <a_c_r> So... for the record, q3 at 1920x1200 is not high performance.
[6:37] <cjbaird> shirro: 06/03/2012 20:35 ... I'll probably have a wait. :)
[6:37] <ShiftPlusOne> 29/02/2012 17:04:25
[6:37] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, looks like you'll still have a bit of a wait
[6:38] <cjbaird> My E14 orders have been delivered 'next working day' by AusPost..
[6:38] <cjbaird> I
[6:38] <shirro> a_c_r: I think they said with the original video that they were not happy with the performance and felt it should be able to go faster.
[6:38] <cjbaird> I've got a new Weller WES51 coming tomorrow :D .. (my DSE T2000 that I bought in 1986 died this morning ;_;)
[6:39] <a_c_r> shirro: cool
[6:39] <ShiftPlusOne> cjbaird, nice... have you seen the crazy new one from Weller? With a usb port and all kinds of crazy features
[6:40] <cjbaird> S+1: no I haven't; googling now
[6:42] <ShiftPlusOne> cjbaird, WX2
[6:42] <a_c_r> usb soldering station?
[6:42] <ShiftPlusOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaPlQBIlwXA
[6:43] <ShiftPlusOne> no... normal soldering station with a usb port to load/save settings or something
[6:43] <cjbaird> Someone I noticed while researching for a new soldering station was a lot of models having temperature password protection-- I had to ask what the hell that was for. :)
[6:44] <a_c_r> cjbaird: my hakko 927 e.s.d. has that
[6:44] <a_c_r> its so your assembly monkeys can't fry stuff.
[6:44] <cjbaird> gulag tools.
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[6:44] <cjbaird> :)
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[6:54] <shirro> My wife is a teacher. Would people consider taking their one and only precious Pi into a school to be handled by staff and students without a case or are they too fragile? If too fragile is there anything simpler than a sandwich of a couple of sheets of clear acrylic with some spacers to consider?
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[7:45] <mozzwald> BenO: here's kernel panic when downloading large file. will post on github issue tomorrow. time for bed now. http://pastebin.com/u4C98Tfq
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[7:53] <ShiftPlusOne> I had that error on my desktop
[7:54] <ShiftPlusOne> when playing a certain file using vlc for some reason
[7:54] <ShiftPlusOne> except it didn't lead to a kernel panic
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[7:55] <ShiftPlusOne> how do you know it's a usb/net bug?
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[8:04] <shirro> buffer overflow in usb? nice. Need some symbols on that stacktrace.
[8:16] <friggle> mozzwald: try adding smsc95xx.turbo_mode=N to /boot/cmdline.txt
[8:17] <friggle> mozzwald: or vm.min_free_kbytes = 12288 to /etc/sysctl.conf
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[8:53] <shirro> So there is no System.map shipped with the Pi default images?
[8:55] <shirro> I was going to run ksymoops on that stacktrace that was posted
[8:57] <shirro> I know that you can get config from proc if it is enabled but I think it would be nice to have both config and System.map in /boot
[8:58] <ShiftPlusOne> /boot doesn't really have much meaning on pi
[8:58] <shirro> Well on the vfat partition. It is hard to debug a kernel oops without symbols
[8:59] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[8:59] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, I know what you mean
[8:59] <shirro> The config isn't such an issue. But there should be a System.map
[9:00] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah
[9:00] <shirro> My hardware has shipped so I can build my own in a couple of days and see what I can crash :-)
[9:00] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[9:00] <ponky_> shh, i want my pi already
[9:01] <shirro> friggle: Did someone keep a copy of the System.map that goes with the shipping kernel?
[9:01] <ponky_> anyone got xbmc working on it yet?
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[9:03] <hotwings> eben does
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[9:17] <friggle> ponky_: xbmc works fairly well. We need to get a binary build available
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[9:18] <friggle> shirro: that would be a good idea. I don't do the kernel builds, I'll ask
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[9:20] <ponky_> friggle: nice
[9:21] <ponky_> now i just need my pie
[9:21] <ponky_> farnell already sent the order form, but never answered to it
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[9:34] <_sundar_> friggle, does xbmc rely on X11?
[9:34] <shirro> I just got an email from Element14 confirming mine has shipped.
[9:34] <_sundar_> can it be run standalone without X11?
[9:34] <ShiftPlusOne> friggle, while you're around, what does fist32k do exactly and what do the kernel and bootloader parameters for it mean?
[9:35] <_sundar_> shirro, nice when did you place the order?
[9:35] <ShiftPlusOne> *first
[9:35] <shirro> 12 minutes
[9:35] <_sundar_> just 12 minutes before?
[9:35] <shirro> ShiftPlusOne: Better sign the NDA first :-)
[9:37] <shirro> _sundar_: I was on Element 14 Australia (and several other RS/Farnell sites earlier) but I had to resubmit my forms several times so My order didn't get through until 0612 on 29th. But that seemed to be good enough for Australia and probably not by much.
[9:38] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, it doesn't look like anything too fancy or secret... maybe data telling the bootloader how to load and start the kernel or something.
[9:38] <shirro> Just dissasemble it :-)
[9:39] <ShiftPlusOne> shirro, it didn't look like executable data, but I didn't spend much time on it
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[9:41] <friggle> _sundar_: it runs without X11, just uses GLES on the framebuffer
[9:41] <shirro> It has an elf header but binutils doesn't understand it
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[9:42] <shirro> I think it must be magic
[9:42] <ShiftPlusOne> oh, didn't notice an elf header
[9:42] <_sundar_> friggle, thanks. now that is cool
[9:42] <friggle> ShiftPlusOne: I don't actually no. Obviously magic for the Broadcom bootloader...but I don't know details beyond that (I'm not a Broadcom employee)
[9:42] <friggle> *know
[9:42] <_sundar_> what bootloader does rpi use? u-boot?
[9:43] <ShiftPlusOne> _sundar_, a custom broadcom specific bootloader
[9:43] <shirro> _sundar_: nope. the GPU does something mysterious
[9:43] <friggle> _sundar_: there's a teeny tiny bootloader in the GPU ROM, which is just enough to load a larger bootloader from SD, which will set up the viddeo core and finally start the kernel on the arm
[9:44] <_sundar_> ShiftPlusOne, for me i wouldn't mind. but just curious... any hope for u-boot in the future?
[9:44] <friggle> _sundar_: there's no reason you couldn't have the GPU bootloader start u-boot rather than the linux kernel
[9:44] <friggle> but, I'm not sure what they would buy you?
[9:44] <ShiftPlusOne> _sundar_, the 'kernel' loaded by the actual bootloader can be anything... including uboot
[9:44] <friggle> *that. eughh. brain start working
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[9:45] <_sundar_> so can I mount filesystems over NFS?
[9:46] <_sundar_> as rootfs i mean
[9:46] <friggle> _sundar_: yep
[9:46] <shirro> having spent way too much time pissing about with uboot recently can I just vote for linux early userspace instead
[9:46] <ShiftPlusOne> _sundar_, yes, but you still need an sdcard for the actual kernel, bootloader and kernel parameters
[9:47] <_sundar_> cool. so tftpboot is not supported at the moment?
[9:49] <friggle> nope
[9:50] <_sundar_> thats no problem unless you really are working in the kernel frequently needing to load the new one to the SD card
[9:50] <friggle> but as ShiftPlusOne says, the binary loaded by the gpu bootloader could be anything, including something which grabs the kernel over the network and boots it
[9:50] <shirro> but you have an sd card in the thing that can mount root from nfs or usb and you can put soemthing in an initrd that downloads a kernel via tftp and kexecs it I would guess.
[9:50] <ShiftPlusOne> Haven't heard anything about tftpboot. But I think it's fairly safe to say no, nobody has done that yet.
[9:50] <ShiftPlusOne> it's just a lot easier to use NFS and if you need to, you can update the kernel after booting, then restarting.
[9:50] <ShiftPlusOne> if for whatever reason you don't have physical access to the sdcard
[9:50] <friggle> shirro: yeah
[9:51] <_sundar_> is the ethernet controller connected via USB>
[9:51] <_sundar_> ?
[9:51] <shirro> yes
[9:51] <Drazyl> morning
[9:57] <RaTTuS|BIG> !w
[9:57] <RaTTuS|BIG> morning
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[10:10] <Mowee> Morning
[10:11] <normod> Morning
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[10:25] <Hourd> morning
[10:25] <Veryevil> morning
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[12:42] <techman2> evening
[12:43] <Veryevil> morning
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[12:43] <techman2> shirro: you awake?
[12:43] <shirro> only just
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[12:58] <techman2> how's hardfp debian going?
[13:05] <Caver> it will be an interesting to see how much of a performance gain we'll get
[13:06] <Veryevil> The guy doing it is a legend!
[13:06] <techman2> early testing seems promising, shirro knows more than me though.
[13:06] * SpeedEvil looks at his right leg end.
[13:06] <Veryevil> The PI Foundation should send him one
[13:06] <techman2> yeah it's a mammoth effort.
[13:08] <techman2> I believe he has been tearing through the packaging though
[13:08] <shirro> seems like those testing it killed the kernel with lots of usb. it does well on things with ridiculous amounts of FP. Should be a little better on everything else due to being tuned for 1176jzf-s
[13:09] <shirro> Some of those packages may be broken. It would be good to get lots of people using it to find the breakage.
[13:09] * seroki (~seroki@S010620cf30ce40c8.gv.shawcable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:10] <techman2> yeah, I'm sure testing will ramp up in the near future
[13:10] <shirro> it beat my 1Ghz A8 on povray benchmarks :-(
[13:12] <techman2> wow really?
[13:12] <techman2> surprising.
[13:12] <Caver> !
[13:13] <shirro> not really. The Cortex A8 has a vfp lite which isn't pipelined. If you were only going to run Povray and nothing else $25 Pis will likely outperform $150 Beagleboard xm and Freescale imx53
[13:14] <Veryevil> but wasn't the A8 running standard armel packages e.g. armv4t compiled?
[13:14] <shirro> Doesn't mean it isn't a lot slower for everything else
[13:14] <techman2> I just wouldn't have thought a newer arch would be weaker in fpu
[13:15] <zgreg> shirro: heh, it's not THAT bad
[13:15] <zgreg> besides, for single-precision FP you can use NEON
[13:15] <shirro> Nope. I was running Debian sid armhf in a chroot. I test wasn't all that scientifically conducted but it looked similar to what people have got from a beagleboard
[13:15] <zgreg> and the RunFast mode can use the NEON unit for singe-precision VFP ops, so you get better without writing actual NEON code
[13:16] <shirro> I tried neon and thinking it would be MUCH faster and it wasn't. Don't know why.
[13:16] <zgreg> did you enable RunFast mode?
[13:16] <zgreg> it needs to be initialized
[13:16] <zgreg> check this:
[13:16] <zgreg> http://pandorawiki.org/Floating_Point_Optimization#VFP-Lite_RunFast
[13:17] <zgreg> but yes, overall it's a pity that the A8 only has the "lite" FPU
[13:17] <shirro> No. I wasn't interested in showing of the A8 to be honest :-) The first run I did was vfp3. The second I just set mfpu=neon. I am no FP expert. Was just fun to see the Pi do well
[13:18] <zgreg> however, most code depends on ALU performance, even code that uses floating-point calculations
[13:19] <zgreg> the FPU on the A9 is *much* better fortunately
[13:21] <zgreg> anyway, floating-point is overrated anyway
[13:21] * Tuxuser (tuxuser@libxenon.org) Quit (Quit: 404 Not found)
[13:21] <phantoxe> status on *no sound* drivers?
[13:22] <fALSO> i wish they said on the propaganda that it can play 1080 h264 movies with no sound
[13:22] <shirro> It was exciting to see the Pi beat the more expensive boards at something. I am looking forward to comparing the opengl performance. The A9 looks like a beast. Really amazing. Hopefully in a couple of years it will be cheap enough for a Pi priced system
[13:22] <phantoxe> ROTFL
[13:22] <Drazyl> I believe the "no sound" driver works as advertised
[13:22] <phantoxe> LULZ
[13:22] <fALSO> is that new?
[13:22] <shirro> The sound works fine. Just not with ALSA.
[13:22] <fALSO> then works with what ?
[13:23] <shirro> The same thing the video works with. OpenMax IL
[13:23] <shirro> The same thing XBMC will be using
[13:23] <fALSO> thats nice
[13:23] <fALSO> but ALSA is at the bottom
[13:23] <fALSO> that wont work without alsa
[13:23] <fALSO> alsa is the driver to the hardware
[13:23] <shirro> Not really. ALSA is needed for all those games
[13:23] <zgreg> fALSO: no
[13:24] <fALSO> that doesnt may any sense
[13:24] <zgreg> fALSO: as far as I can see, OpenMAX directly accesses the hardware, too
[13:24] <zgreg> fALSO: of course "the hardware" is actually the GPU coprocessor
[13:25] <fALSO> so the sound card will use a API that nothing supports? thats great
[13:25] <zgreg> well, there's work going into an ALSA driver
[13:25] <fALSO> if it doesnt support mpg123 then its useless
[13:25] <zgreg> it's just not finished yet
[13:25] <wcchandler> ugh.. took a nap before work. Only to come in to a LUN going down last night... a LUN which backs up 90% of our core services :(
[13:25] <fALSO> i just wished they told that on the propaganda
[13:25] * nrdb (~neil@101.161.229.250) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[13:25] <shirro> fALSO: actually there is OpenMax IL for gstreamer which has been worked on by a few people. And I think there is a driver for VLC somewhere.
[13:26] <zgreg> yeah, it sort of sucks
[13:26] <fALSO> they didnt announce that the drivers dont exist
[13:26] <zgreg> I had taken for granted there is an ALSA driver, too
[13:26] <fALSO> that quake3 just works on framebuffer
[13:26] <fALSO> and the there isnt any 2d aceleration on X
[13:26] <fALSO> or 3d...
[13:26] <Caver> fALSO, were you expecting all the drivers to be finished and polished?
[13:26] <shirro> The driver does exist. It just isn't reliable so is disabled for the plebs
[13:26] <fALSO> yap
[13:26] <fALSO> there was time, with all those delays
[13:26] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-175-149.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[13:26] <shirro> It is a work in progress. That is what a developer release is about
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[13:27] <zgreg> fALSO: well, the X situation was explained, as far as I know
[13:27] <Caver> quite!
[13:27] <techman2> fALSO: the initial release of 10k was designed to get them into the hands of people who could do that sort of dev work
[13:27] <fALSO> so... a computer to the children learn to program -> but just WHEN ITS READDY
[13:27] <phantoxe> explained when?
[13:27] <shirro> I am much more interested in crashy drivers and reporting bugs than watching videos on XBMC. So I am really happy about any breakage
[13:27] <fALSO> that was just propaganda to sell then ?
[13:27] <zgreg> fALSO: the pi was initially announced as a _development_ platform
[13:28] <fALSO> because from what i understand nothing works
[13:28] <phantoxe> when the first batch of boards was being received?
[13:28] <phantoxe> wtf
[13:28] <zgreg> fALSO: that wil mature in the next few months
[13:28] <zgreg> *will
[13:28] <phantoxe> or years
[13:28] <phantoxe> who cares
[13:28] <fALSO> so why was all that propaganda ... to let the children learn....
[13:28] <zgreg> however, media and the foundation didn't really market it correcty lately
[13:28] <fALSO> "schools are getting it first, etc"
[13:28] <Caver> yes .. this is the dev's release
[13:28] <phantoxe> "it boots up! WOW! that's great"
[13:28] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-232-197.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: Lerc)
[13:28] <fALSO> nice the leeds school has it first
[13:28] <Caver> the educational release is later
[13:28] <fALSO> now they can put them on the shelft
[13:28] <fALSO> shelf, until it works
[13:28] <fALSO> great!
[13:28] <Caver> aka once things have settled down
[13:29] <phantoxe> "it doesn't do anything useful... but it WORKS! WOWA THAT'S GREAT"
[13:29] <zgreg> fALSO: actually, I expected for people like you :D
[13:29] <wcchandler> are they compiling the armhf on pi's or through qemu?
[13:29] <Caver> hmm well I played with it, and scratch worked great, and they kids loved it
[13:29] <fALSO> i have some kind of sense
[13:29] <zgreg> and it is a bit fault of the marketing
[13:29] <Caver> so that works already
[13:29] <fALSO> marketing hype
[13:30] <zgreg> since the pi was marketed as a finished product in the last few months
[13:30] <fALSO> saying something, and then what happens inst that
[13:30] <shirro> wcchandler: the debian armhf is being compiled on armv7 boards because you can get ones with 1G ram and SATA
[13:30] * Axman6 (~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:30] <wcchandler> shirro: ahh -- is it hexxeh plowing through 'em?
[13:30] <Drazyl> fALSO - when did you learn about the Pi?
[13:31] <fALSO> with all the hype
[13:31] <fALSO> saying it plays quake 3
[13:31] <fALSO> and hd h264
[13:31] <shirro> Hexxeh is plowing through lots of stuff but I think he cross compiled with an intel box. Debian expects to be built natively
[13:31] <fALSO> what they didnt say was that-> without any sound
[13:31] <wcchandler> ahh
[13:31] <fALSO> and that X is slow as if you were in 1989
[13:31] <wcchandler> got ya
[13:32] <Veryevil> if the x driver exists but innt enbale how would one go about enabling it?
[13:32] <zgreg> Veryevil: it does not exist
[13:32] <mjr> it was the alsa driver that was being talked about existing but not enabled
[13:33] <Veryevil> oh sorry
[13:33] <fALSO> because it crashes the kernel
[13:33] <shirro> Possibly X may always be slow. It might be hard to accelerate what it does effectively. The opengl accelerated toolkits will be more interesting I think.
[13:34] <shirro> Slow but not unusable
[13:34] <zgreg> why should X acceleration be hard?
[13:34] <zgreg> it's a lot of work, but it's not like opengl isn't suitable for it
[13:35] <shirro> Just judging by my A8. It is faster with EXA turned off for lots of things. Just using mmap to speed up copying blocks of memory around might not be that much of a speedup.
[13:35] <zgreg> I guess the driver is simply horrible
[13:36] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[13:36] <shirro> Not a graphics expert but I expect a lot of tookits draw everything themselves rather than use 1990s X primitives so how do you accelerate that?
[13:37] <zgreg> typically they use xrender
[13:38] <zgreg> if they draw themselves you SOL, though :)
[13:38] <wcchandler> this channel is full of haters ha
[13:38] <zgreg> *you're
[13:38] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@037096130202.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:39] <fALSO> not haters
[13:39] <zgreg> it should be possible to accelerate the underlying software renderer with ARMv6 SIMD, too
[13:39] <fALSO> im just asking something , that for me should work, from the first day
[13:39] <shirro> zgreg: I think that is a better option. low hanging fruit
[13:39] <zgreg> it's not nearly as nice as NEON, but can be effective
[13:39] <fALSO> because they sold it as... "to help children learn programming"
[13:39] * nrdb (~neil@101.161.229.250) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:39] <fALSO> they are going to learn to program - kernel drivers
[13:40] <wcchandler> yes
[13:40] * nrdb (~neil@101.161.229.250) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:40] <Drazyl> fALSO no, they sold this as a developers release for a product that will be a learning tool
[13:40] <wcchandler> why not?
[13:40] <Veryevil> I'm guessing the only way to get an accellerated web browser is to wait for the X driver?
[13:40] <shirro> zgreg: that and using the dma.
[13:40] <zgreg> yeah, I think it's fine to criticize the foundation, there's plenty of reason why
[13:40] <Drazyl> fALSO you seem to have missed all of that
[13:40] <wcchandler> Drazyl: yeah, I think I *lot* of people have :(
[13:40] <fALSO> a LOT really
[13:40] <fALSO> because of the marketing hype
[13:41] <Drazyl> fALSO and now you are complaining about a mistake you made
[13:41] <shirro> Veryevil: No. You just get QtOnPi or compile it and build a browser on QtWebkit and run it full screen on OpenGL ES
[13:41] <fALSO> nop
[13:41] <Drazyl> fALSO I saw no marketing hype
[13:41] <fALSO> about something they omited
[13:41] <fALSO> something as: "no sound"
[13:41] <Drazyl> fALSO no, it was quite clear what this rev was
[13:41] <wcchandler> i'm laughing at people who thought they could buy one and just do a NAS or something... without knowing a lick of programming or how to move around a shell. There's going to be legwork involved
[13:41] <zgreg> Drazyl: well, the problem is they said it's a developer release, but marketed it like a finished product
[13:41] <fALSO> "no 2d aceleration"
[13:41] <zleap> the hype came from the press
[13:41] <fALSO> "3d only on framebuffer"
[13:41] <Drazyl> zgreg no, they havent marketed it at all really
[13:41] <zgreg> Drazyl: no?
[13:42] <zgreg> Drazyl: of course they did!
[13:42] <Drazyl> to anyone who was paying attention it was clear this was to get it out to developers to get the software done
[13:42] <Drazyl> zgreg no
[13:42] <wcchandler> the only "marketing" I saw was at trade shows... for electronics enthusiasts
[13:42] <zgreg> what, if not marketing, were those xbmc and q3 demos?
[13:42] <wcchandler> not best buy end caps
[13:42] <Veryevil> I'm guessing the only way to get an accellerated web browser is to wait for the X driver?
[13:43] <Drazyl> zgreg that was not marketing, that was intended to demo some of the capabilities, not sell it as a games machine or media centre
[13:43] <zleap> well there are lots of tutorials out there, so iare you counting them as marketing
[13:43] <M0RBD> Drazyl: the problem is the most people use BBC et al their source... which gives a skewed perception... so zgreg has a point there.
[13:43] <phantoxe> WTF
[13:43] <Drazyl> M0RBD people who don't do any research deserve what they get
[13:43] * teso_ is now known as teso\
[13:43] * teso\ is now known as teso
[13:43] <phantoxe> today one of the "news" was that spectrum inspired the raspberry-pi
[13:43] <Drazyl> I wouldn't buy a new TV without checking out it's actual capabilities etc
[13:43] <phantoxe> wtf
[13:43] <wcchandler> @Drazyl++
[13:44] <phantoxe> everything is about r-pi
[13:44] <fALSO> how can you research on something that dont exist ?
[13:44] <zgreg> phantoxe: haha
[13:44] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-58-165-87-194.qld.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[13:44] <Drazyl> fALSO read the forums, hang out here
[13:44] <fALSO> there wasnt said anywhere that the drivers werent done
[13:44] <zgreg> fALSO: well, there's the FAQ
[13:44] <phantoxe> maybe they should worry about the stuff that doesn't work
[13:44] <phantoxe> and talk about that
[13:44] <fALSO> here is in the FAQ stating that stuff doesnt work?
[13:44] <fALSO> where
[13:44] <phantoxe> bunch of useless crap
[13:44] <shirro> you don't really need acceleration to edit a few lines of code and draw something in a window. It is fit for its intended purpose. And it will be even better with a bit of work
[13:45] <zleap> I understand that the raspPI is aimed at teaching programming or helping people develop those skills
[13:45] <fALSO> yap
[13:45] <fALSO> use HDMI
[13:45] <fALSO> to program ont he console
[13:45] <fALSO> because if youre in X, scrolling something inside a window will take an eternity
[13:45] <phantoxe> so what?
[13:45] <phantoxe> what's the hurry??!?!?!
[13:45] <fALSO> lol
[13:46] <phantoxe> just sit back and enjoy the hype ;-)
[13:46] <shirro> fALSO: You might be interested to know that accelerating a very long wikipedia page is faster unnaccelerated on my arm board than on a 2009 Mac with nvidia graphics
[13:46] <fALSO> lol
[13:46] <shirro> scrolling not accelerating
[13:46] <wcchandler> accelerating the scroll wheel
[13:46] <fALSO> what does that matter ?
[13:46] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:47] * uen (~uen@p5DCB2ECA.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[13:47] <shirro> just pointing out that usability is about a lot more than raw speed. it depends on what you want to do. I am not going to open up 100 tabs and browse the web on a $25 machine
[13:47] <fALSO> you just need one tab
[13:47] <fALSO> it will be slow
[13:48] <fALSO> or just MOVING a window on X
[13:48] <fALSO> it will be slow
[13:48] <fALSO> slow like in 1989
[13:48] <zgreg> browsing wil be slow even with great X acceleration
[13:48] <zgreg> *will
[13:48] <M0RBD> but it does not run Windows 8!
[13:48] <zgreg> (sorry, my "l" key is a bit broken)
[13:48] <fALSO> :-
[13:48] * M0RBD runs.
[13:48] <fALSO> :-P
[13:48] <zleap> dependson the browser i guess, looking at liams debian tutorial the very simple browser he used seems fast enough
[13:49] <zleap> M0GHY, it isn't designed to run windows 8 the would does not revolve around Microsoft, thankfully
[13:49] <Cheery> shirro: I'd like to disagree
[13:49] <zleap> M0RBD, HY, it isn't designed to run windows 8 the would does not revolve around Microsoft, thankfully
[13:49] <M0RBD> zleap: I know, It was irony!
[13:49] <zleap> OK
[13:49] <zleap> sorry
[13:49] <M0RBD> :D
[13:49] <fALSO> i found a nice comment
[13:49] <fALSO> What? are there NO computers in the UK? making a small cheap computer is not automatically going to spark a fire in a child who is surrounded by more powerful machines every moment of their lives capable of doing the exact same thing
[13:49] <Cheery> I tried a fresh 2k??? computer system week ago.
[13:50] <fALSO> if it was designed for microsoft it would have drivers on the day of the launch
[13:50] <sykes> Any (uk) CRTS grads here ?! :D
[13:50] <Cheery> I noticed it was so much more responsive - even with windows 7 in it - that it'd definitely help from usability point of view.. well. if the windows 7 interfaces wouldn't be so slow to use.
[13:50] <zleap> nice thing abnout the PI will be that you can play, program, and screw it up, and fix it easily, try that with a PC re-installing an OS on a weekly basis is not fun sometimes
[13:50] <sykes> there must be one!!
[13:51] <M0RBD> fALSO: there is some truth there... Rather then programming on it they will run of and sell it on eBay.. as that's what they are learning in school today :D
[13:51] <fALSO> LOL
[13:51] <zgreg> well, you can definitely learn programming just as good on a PC
[13:51] <shirro> it is ok for people not to get the concept of the Pi. But why are they wasting time here instead of getting a life?
[13:51] <fALSO> well its nicer for eletronics than a arduino
[13:51] * wkl (~Conan@219.142.118.237) Quit (Quit: wkl)
[13:52] <zgreg> on the forums a few people popped that want to learn programming with the pi
[13:52] <Cheery> M0RBD: I guess the kids aren't doing that sell-in-eBay thing.
[13:52] <zleap> cool
[13:52] <fALSO> yes, because its MUCH BETTER than on a normal computer
[13:52] <fALSO> LOL
[13:52] <zgreg> but they obviously have a PC at their disposal. what's stopping them?
[13:52] <fALSO> thats just dumb
[13:52] <fALSO> its too fast for them zgreg
[13:53] <fALSO> they need to see it running step by step :-P
[13:53] <zgreg> I can see that the pi has some merit for schools, though
[13:53] <fALSO> when X gets working, yes
[13:53] <fALSO> it will be really cool
[13:53] <zgreg> school PCs are often crippled pieces of shit (software-wise)
[13:53] <zleap> if we can get the PI in the hands of people who are into programming or running groups we can make a start on demos, I want to take mine to the after school club and show the kids there, when i get one,
[13:53] <zleap> zgreg, i agree
[13:53] <shirro> and you can't take them (or some of the proprietary software home)
[13:54] <Cheery> zgreg: there's one good reason for picking up rpi even if you'd have a PC around..
[13:54] <M0RBD> You need a good teacher to make the PI work as intended...
[13:54] <zgreg> and it's very attractive that you can easily attach hardware to the GPIO, and that children can take everything home
[13:54] <M0RBD> who can deliver the message to his/her pupil.
[13:54] <Cheery> say you have some tutorial or some other such... you can bundle the software required for that into an SD image.
[13:54] <fALSO> yap, i'm not seeing every teaching having the knowledge to put the rpis working
[13:54] <zleap> i am not inteding to teach programming with my group, i am intending to set up a support group so people can support each other,, if kids are doing programming they are going to be ahead of any curriculum in some cases
[13:54] <fALSO> teacher
[13:55] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:55] <Cheery> M0RBD: I looked into how rpi is organized.. it is very easy for anyone to put up and running.
[13:55] <Cheery> at least once you got the first pi
[13:55] <zleap> FALSO well i am not a teacher, i am qualified as a teaching assistant trying to get a job in a school i could be an asset on things like this
[13:55] <shirro> I want to take my Pi into wifes school. She has a big plasma screen in her room. I need to port some opengl demos
[13:55] <M0RBD> Cheery: that's not my point..
[13:56] <Cheery> M0RBD: oh you mean that the teacher itself needs to be good to make any use of tools given.. yeah you have a point
[13:56] <zleap> shirro, why not simply use geany, pythjon and pygame and demo something from that, if it is there to teach programming then show source code, and run it, change something (e.g colour) and re run
[13:56] <zleap> it shows how easy it is to modify software
[13:56] <Cheery> M0RBD: though then you essentially say that the problem isn't tools but the teachers in the first place.
[13:57] <M0RBD> Cheery: yes, partly and make his pupils intrested in developing on it.
[13:57] <zleap> teachers are going to need time to develop how they can use this fully
[13:57] <zleap> I don't think you can make kids in to programmers, they are going to need something, interest to get started
[13:57] <M0RBD> zleap: true...
[13:57] <zleap> if they are interested, self motivated you potentially have a future developer
[13:58] <Cheery> I still think raspberry pi has a chance to make it quite easy to start on.
[13:58] <shirro> zleap: I am not a teacher. My wife teaches Art. Teaching python to kids will not be happening with m Pi
[13:58] <zleap> yeah it will
[13:58] <zleap> so maybe run tuxpaint on it or something
[13:58] <Cheery> those all PC users who buy rpi even if they have very ok PC..
[13:59] <M0RBD> teenagers of today want to be on idol, etc.. and bigbrother!
[13:59] <shirro> And I don't want people handling it until I can buy a spare
[13:59] <zleap> not all of em
[13:59] <Cheery> I think the problem is their PC runs windows.
[13:59] <M0RBD> zleap: the ratio os 1:30
[13:59] <M0RBD> os = 1:30
[13:59] * nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:59] * uen (~uen@p5DCB1EFB.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:59] * lennard (lennard@2001:610:1908:8004:216:3eff:fe16:8138) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[13:59] <Drazyl> none of the teenagers I know want to be on idol or BB
[13:59] <RaTTuS|BIG> eban will be happy if all they do is make 10k engineers avialble to the industry
[13:59] <Cheery> and that they are some hell-vendor hardware that gets every possible error when you try install anything else on it.
[14:00] <zleap> RaTTuS|BIG, and keep em in the UK
[14:00] <RaTTuS|BIG> yeah but there will be more
[14:00] <zleap> looking at Linked in there are loads of jobs in the US (programming) danger is we will lose the best unless we a ) have jobs and b) the salaries to keep em here
[14:00] <RaTTuS|BIG> ooh food time
[14:00] <RaTTuS|BIG> back laster
[14:00] <Cheery> because basicly for good programming experience, you require linux.
[14:01] <Cheery> good or easy*
[14:01] <zleap> Cheery, yeah there are lots of Linux jobs but also ruby, python all the stuff you can learn on a Linux OS setup, mind you can get ruby, python for windows
[14:01] <tntexplosivesltd> first >.>
[14:01] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-58-165-87-194.qld.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:01] <Cheery> zleap: yes you can. though I don't think it's same thing.
[14:01] <zleap> so have they started to make more PIs yet
[14:02] <shirro> People in Australia don't understand the potential for engineering to transform an economy. Easier just to dig shit up and sell it cheap. Good luck to the UK. Hope they get the engineers they deserve
[14:02] <zleap> Cheery, its a heck of a llot easier on Linux
[14:02] <zleap> i just hope the current batch goes to developers
[14:03] <zleap> and people who can use it to inspire others
[14:03] <Cheery> zleap: I try to get on it as fast as I can.. though my pi didn't yet arrive.. and I'm not sure when it does. :/
[14:03] <shirro> Developers and people with an open mind. There is a lot people can do reporting bugs, writing docs etc.
[14:04] <zleap> i have not even had an e-mail to order one yet :( didn't make the site in time
[14:04] <shirro> Got an email today saying mine is in the mail. Still a bit shocked.
[14:04] * techman2 (~Glen@121.209.128.126) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:04] <zleap> in fact I ahrdly get mails from RS, i got one confirming i had registered an interest
[14:05] <zgreg> I guess there will be a fair share of people that just want a cheap XBMC box
[14:05] <zgreg> :/
[14:05] <zleap> read something about people opting not to get mail but i never saw that optiobn on the page
[14:05] <shirro> Lord_DeathMatch: you in Aus? Did you make the cut today?
[14:05] * lennard (lennard@lennardk2.student.utwente.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:05] <zleap> so how many factories are making these things, in order to met the demand
[14:06] * veryevil12345 (~Veryevil@83.166.186.218) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:06] <tntexplosivesltd> shirro: make the cut?
[14:06] <shirro> tntexplosivesltd: what about NZ.
[14:06] <tntexplosivesltd> what about NZ?
[14:06] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't follow
[14:07] <shirro> tntexplosivesltd: The handful from the first 2000 that went to Element 14 Australia got sent out today. You had to have ordered in first few minutes
[14:07] <tntexplosivesltd> if you're referring to whether or not I got a pi, the answer is no
[14:07] <tntexplosivesltd> our net died on that nught
[14:07] <tntexplosivesltd> * night
[14:07] <tntexplosivesltd> worst timing ever
[14:07] * nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[14:07] <shirro> where in nz are you?
[14:07] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:07] <tntexplosivesltd> palmy
[14:08] <zleap> the service provider engineers cut you off so they could order one, perhaps LOL
[14:08] <tntexplosivesltd> I mean Palmerston North
[14:08] <shirro> whicj one?
[14:08] * Veryevil (~Veryevil@83.166.186.218) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:08] <shirro> ok
[14:08] <tntexplosivesltd> Palmerston is not really anything
[14:08] <tntexplosivesltd> just a whole lot of land
[14:08] <tntexplosivesltd> no-one there
[14:09] <shirro> Yeah, not the best bit of NZ. And there are quite a lot of good bits
[14:09] <tntexplosivesltd> so palmy is normally palmerston north
[14:09] * veryevil12345 is now known as Veryevil
[14:09] <zleap> what concerns me is cuts to library budgets, if we are going back to programming people need access to good books on the subject and sometimes having a printed book is a good start, or a good way to see if that book is worth buying
[14:09] <zleap> less money = less money for books
[14:09] <tntexplosivesltd> shirro: OH yeah, you hear what that guy said about the aus soldiers in WWI?
[14:09] <tntexplosivesltd> I was amazed
[14:10] <zleap> nope
[14:10] <tntexplosivesltd> like, wow
[14:10] <Cheery> zleap: books? you mean those things that have covers and text inside?
[14:10] <shirro> was it on mainstream media? unless it made it to reddit I probably don't know
[14:10] <tntexplosivesltd> it was on the news here yeah
[14:10] <zleap> yes, there are still books out there that are not in electronic form yet,
[14:10] <shirro> anzac day always brings out a crazy element.
[14:11] <tntexplosivesltd> http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/last-post-first-light/6792303/No-apology-over-dig-at-Aussie-soldiers
[14:11] <zleap> either way these books mujst be accessible in some form to people, the invent with python books are free (pdf and html) under creative commons which is good for people on low incomes
[14:11] <Cheery> zleap: unfortunately.. I do know young ppl go to see in libraries about programming.. although I don't think they find anything from there.
[14:12] <zleap> Cheery, as i said budget cuts to libraries means there won't be any even if they want them
[14:12] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:12] <Cheery> zleap: even before budget cuts that was poorly covered.
[14:12] <tntexplosivesltd> I got my first programming book from a library
[14:12] <zleap> yeah
[14:12] <tntexplosivesltd> perl
[14:12] <Cheery> knowing what to pick.. what's good.. requires expertise.
[14:12] <zleap> at least you can look through and see if that book is for you, its free to do that
[14:12] <tntexplosivesltd> ~5-6 years ago
[14:12] <Cheery> well you get something from there. but about anything is ok if you just look for something
[14:13] <shirro> tntexplosivesltd: yeah whatever. One guy. I still like New Zealand. We have lots of dickheads as well.
[14:13] <tntexplosivesltd> shirro: yeah, I;m saying that he's a retard
[14:13] <tntexplosivesltd> everyone here hates him
[14:13] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:13] <zleap> what if you have say python or scratch, and needa book on it
[14:13] <Cheery> zleap: then you'd likely be well off with one of those reader machines and python website.
[14:14] <Cheery> python has very good documentation
[14:14] <Cheery> one of the best
[14:14] <Matt> silly weather
[14:14] <Cheery> especially if you are a kid and living in UK, and you understand english.
[14:14] <zleap> good idea, well the inventwith python site is good
[14:15] <shirro> libraries where I live have always been useless for things like programming. All I had as a kid was magazines
[14:15] <zleap> of course some books are written for children / young people
[14:15] <Matt> I had a few books
[14:16] <Cheery> I'm quite surprised I found ARRL from my local library.
[14:16] * s[x]_ (~sx]@ppp59-167-157-96.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:16] <zleap> shirro, maybe there will be a revival of listings magazines like back in the 80's
[14:16] <Matt> but yeah, most of the stuff was from magazines
[14:16] <Matt> Sinclair User and Your Sinclair mainly
[14:16] <zleap> yep
[14:16] <zleap> and sinclair programs ( i think i have the last issue of that)
[14:16] <Matt> I still have one my first books on programming :)
[14:16] <tntexplosivesltd> shirro: what part of aus are you in?
[14:16] <zleap> i have loads of your sinclair mags
[14:16] <Cheery> anyway along internet the role of libraries has changed I think
[14:17] * techman2 (~Glen@121.209.128.126) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:17] <Cheery> libraries are social gathering places and places for communicating.
[14:17] <Cheery> internet is the world library.. container of all knowledge.
[14:17] <zleap> perhaps, libraries can be meeting places for young programmers then
[14:17] <shirro> tntexplosivesltd: South Australia, very small town on the river Murray near the Victorian border
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[14:18] <zleap> 2nd pair of eyes on listings, is a very good way to find errors / bugs etc
[14:18] <Cheery> zleap: maybe.. still the best one I have found is running the darn program.
[14:18] <Cheery> ^^
[14:18] <Cheery> of course that's not always possible
[14:18] <Matt> here we go
[14:19] <zleap> if it fails to work and despite searching through source code, and you can't find the issue, a 2nd pair of fresh eyes can sometimes spot it
[14:19] <Matt> ISBN 086020796X
[14:19] <zleap> i found an error in snake wrangling for kids (python books for kids)
[14:19] <tntexplosivesltd> shirro: nice
[14:20] <zleap> however i posted code to local lug list chat room and got help pretty quick, it was a simple error that once spotted made sense as to why that didn't work
[14:20] <Matt> "The Beginner's Programming Handbook"
[14:20] <Cheery> zleap: the title of that book sounds like suggestive.
[14:20] <Matt> "in BASIC and Machine Code"
[14:20] <tntexplosivesltd> ISBN is so powerful
[14:20] <zleap> snake = python
[14:20] <zleap> Cheery, yeah
[14:20] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] <Cheery> zleap: well.. substituting snake with python wouldn't help any. ^^
[14:20] <Cheery> would make it worse in fact.
[14:21] <Matt> tntexplosivesltd: quite - that's why it's my usual way to reference books :)
[14:21] <zleap> its a good book, though for starting out with programming
[14:21] <zleap> its also free
[14:21] <Matt> there we go - published in 1984
[14:21] <Matt> that'd about right :)
[14:22] <shirro> Yeah, the weather is great. No volcanos or earthquakes. Boring as hell though. No work for someone with my skills. Stayed in Welly for LCA2010. Really liked it. Need an excuse to go back.
[14:22] <tntexplosivesltd> shirro: LCA?
[14:22] <tntexplosivesltd> what part of welly?
[14:22] <shirro> Linux.conf.au and just shitty student accom in the city.
[14:22] <tntexplosivesltd> heh
[14:23] <tntexplosivesltd> probably the cube >.>
[14:23] <tntexplosivesltd> I used to live in welly
[14:23] <shirro> It swayed in the wind but the basement was full of soldering irons and arduinos
[14:23] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, everything sways in the wind
[14:24] <tntexplosivesltd> earthquake protection
[14:24] <tntexplosivesltd> buildings can move independent of the ground
[14:24] * s[x] (~sx]@ppp59-167-157-96.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:24] <tntexplosivesltd> building engineers are awesome
[14:24] <shirro> Hope it all floats as well when the tsunami comes in
[14:25] <tntexplosivesltd> lol probably not >.>
[14:25] <zleap> if kids in the 80's could teach themselves why are people now assuming they need to be taught, my approach with my group as I said is peer support, we can help each other
[14:25] <Matt> zleap: as a child of the 80s how taught himself programming, I agree :)
[14:26] <Matt> it's all a matter of having the tools and resources
[14:26] <shirro> kids can and will teach themselves. the pi just presents an opportunity for doing it
[14:26] <Matt> and that's a hell of a lot easier now
[14:26] * rodrigo_golive (quassel@nat/indt/x-chqhhpzqnfkxhudo) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:26] <zleap> exactly
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[14:27] <zleap> plus they will learn at their own pace, ok we may need to teach some theory or give them access to that theory but to make it fun its about getting stuck in i guess.
[14:27] <Matt> oh jeez, I remember the program on the front cover of this book :)
[14:27] <Cheery> zleap: I agree.. I don't know anyone near me who would have gotten major of his skills by being 'teached'
[14:27] <Matt> print a bunch of blank lines, then print a rocket out of *s, then print a bunch more blank lines so it scrolls up and off the top of the screen :)
[14:28] <zleap> Cheery, http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2012/03/03/nobody-wants-to-learn-how-to-program/
[14:28] <zleap> a good essay
[14:28] <zleap> kids can lose interest if they are told what to write
[14:28] <Cheery> without reading the blog.. it talks about how nobody wants to learn programming.. but doing fancy things?
[14:28] <zleap> yeah
[14:29] <zleap> but you learn about loops, vairables as you go along
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[14:29] <zleap> rather than being taught what each of those terms mean / does, so you still learn but in a different way,
[14:30] <zleap> i guess as I also do playwork my approach ties in with that, let the kids do what the want, and provide the tools for them to do it, same as creating play spaces which is my job as a play worker (create opportunties)
[14:30] <shirro> there are different levels. you want kids to appreciate that his stuff exists at all. you want some of them to consider pursuing it further. you want some very few to get completely into it. at the moment kids are largely missing out completely
[14:30] <zleap> yeah
[14:31] <zleap> so give thetm the initial kick start is what s needed its how we do that that will make a difference
[14:31] <zleap> if they are 10/11 and want to go further, then I am sure the OSS commuity can help,
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[14:32] <Cheery> having a linux system with pre-installed interpreters and gaming libraries sounds like a really good kick.
[14:32] <zleap> as in they could contribute to OSS projects and get support in doing so
[14:32] <Purgox> That's Linux Mint for you
[14:32] <Purgox> oh~
[14:32] <M0RBD> zleap: good link.
[14:33] <zleap> thanks
[14:33] <shirro> those kids who really get into it will leave their teachers behind anyway. nothing you can do about that. they are natural born learners. open source projects are good but also things like a demo scene bring out lots of skills with graphics, music, algorithms etc that are good for game industry
[14:33] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@pool-108-7-230-209.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:34] <Cheery> aside providing a platform to run proper programming tools.. I guess raspberry pi will be discovered in osdev community quite fast.
[14:34] <Cheery> some of them have been disgusted about the video driver blob..
[14:34] <zleap> i know hence i want my group the way it is, it respects the fact they will be ahead of teachers ( I was at school esp when the teacher gives me a bbc basic program to type in to gwbasic) i had got a tip off as to waht we were doing and wrote the program properly the nigjht before
[14:34] <Cheery> but it appears that video driver blob doesn't make it linux-only system
[14:35] <zleap> update on my group draft e-mail being sent to manager at local youth centre, to have some stuff added then sent out to schools,
[14:36] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56a2.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:36] <Cheery> hi ReggieUK
[14:36] <ReggieUK> hi cheery
[14:37] <Cheery> you happened to tell me about how to make a potential divider circuit so I could connect the rpi-UART to USB-UART
[14:37] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:38] <ReggieUK> yup
[14:38] * acperkins (~acperkins@pdpc/supporter/student/acperkins) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[14:38] <shirro> Damn, that is what I need to do. Get something for serial access.
[14:38] <Cheery> while I don't have pi yet.. it's bit of waste of time now to discuss this.. but do you also know how to interface UART from raspberry pi if I replace the kernel.img with my own program?
[14:38] * techman2 (~Glen@121.209.128.126) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[14:39] <zleap> so are young people likely to be interested in for example e-mail discussion lists which are good for swapping source code and asking for help with coding
[14:40] <ReggieUK> zleap, probably not initially but you can introduce them to the tools that the big kids (adults) use and see if they like them
[14:40] <M0RBD> Cheery: unfortunately gfx blobs is what you get from most ARM suppliers/manafacturers...
[14:40] <zleap> yeah
[14:40] <ReggieUK> if not they can complain and make their own codefacebook method of coder interaction :D
[14:40] <zleap> ReggieUK, good idea
[14:41] <Cheery> I see the BCM2835 ARM peripherals tells this stuff..
[14:41] <ReggieUK> Cheery, I don't think anyone knows much about how to interface with the pi outside of the kernel.img
[14:41] <zleap> facebook is not quite useful for swapping huge chunkjs of code in plain text i guess
[14:41] <ReggieUK> zleap, sure I was using it as a sarcastic example of some new fangled social media coding site that would pop up
[14:41] <zleap> i am sure one of the guys on my local lug as interfaced a pi with an ardino board
[14:41] <Cheery> ReggieUK: I guess someone knows. :) at least the guy who has written the linux drivers
[14:42] <ReggieUK> Cheery, maybe but he's probably under NDA and very unlikely to tell you me or anyone else how :D
[14:42] <zleap> ReggieUK, yeab but a site written for te purpose would be a good idea, ( i like the idea actually)
[14:42] <ReggieUK> we've got them
[14:42] <zleap> a cross between facebook and forums sort of thing
[14:42] <ReggieUK> sourceforge
[14:42] <ReggieUK> github etc.
[14:42] <Cheery> ReggieUK: actually.. he has told it into the source code already.. so he cannot be under NDA about UART
[14:43] <ReggieUK> but that's for a linux driver
[14:43] <zleap> hmm, ok
[14:43] <Cheery> you people want a website of some kind for coder interaction?
[14:43] <ReggieUK> not a base driver for a random binary that you want to load
[14:43] <zleap> yes
[14:43] <ReggieUK> 1. you'll probably need some assembler
[14:44] <Cheery> zleap: could you describe what you had in mind to my /msg ?
[14:44] <Cheery> zleap: I think I could see what I can do.
[14:44] <zleap> ok
[14:44] <ReggieUK> 2. you'll need to be pretty specific about how you handle and setup registers
[14:44] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@90-227-25-142-no68.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:44] <ReggieUK> if you don't you'll possibly break something
[14:44] <ReggieUK> 3. you'll need a list of all teh registers that you want to access to perform board setup
[14:45] <ReggieUK> so that's all before you start to write custom drivers
[14:46] <ReggieUK> cheery, I'm not saying you can't do it
[14:46] <ReggieUK> just that at this point in time, if you're unsure about what you'd need to do then you're probably not going to have the skill/information to start
[14:47] <ReggieUK> but don't let that stop you trying
[14:47] <ReggieUK> that's how everyone starts out, not knowing stuff :D
[14:47] <Cheery> ReggieUK: I'm sort of in the middle. :)
[14:47] <Cheery> I already know a quite bit about what I should do.
[14:48] <Cheery> also there's very specific reason why I exactly want to inteface with UART in beginning
[14:48] <M0RBD> Anyone in the UK going to Infosec this weekn?
[14:48] <M0RBD> -n
[14:48] <ReggieUK> nope
[14:48] <Cheery> there were big list of downloads in elinux.org wiki.. but I don't find it now
[14:48] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[14:49] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:49] <M0RBD> Last year they called me and said I have won a drive with a Ferrari... Just to get rid of them I told them "In this company we only drive Aston-Martin and Lotus"..
[14:50] * M0RBD usually tells phone solicitors to get a real job at Mc Donalds :D
[14:50] <M0RBD> when they get to pesky..
[14:51] <ReggieUK> just tell them you're on the list and if they call you again you'll report them
[14:51] <ReggieUK> you know you can get yourself added to an opt-out list that bars all cold callers calling you?
[14:52] * chronofast (~George@173-167-154-172-illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:52] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:52] <ReggieUK> highly likely that as soon as you mention 'list' that they'll put the phone down
[14:52] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[14:52] <Caver> also mention the telephone preference service ...
[14:52] <Drazyl> thank them for their call and tell them that as soon as you get out you'll be round to discuss in person
[14:53] <ReggieUK> caver, that's it :D I couldn't remember the correct naime
[14:53] <ReggieUK> name*
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[14:55] <M0RBD> ReggieUK: I'm on it...
[14:55] <Cheery> ReggieUK: I found what I was looking for. :)
[14:55] <Cheery> http://elinux.org/RPi_Documentation
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[14:55] <M0RBD> ReggieUK: not much you can do for calls orginating from india or where thy don't disclose their DDI
[14:55] <M0RBD> CID
[14:55] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:56] <ReggieUK> in those cases I am just plain rude and sweary
[14:56] <M0RBD> ReggieUK: I like to wind them up
[14:56] <M0RBD> :D
[14:56] <ReggieUK> I used to be like that but really can't be bothered these days
[14:56] <M0RBD> ReggieUK: the last one was some trying to send me desktop anti-virus protection... I told him Im not using Windows but FreeBSD ..
[14:57] <ReggieUK> I once spent 90mins on the phone to someone trying to sell me a conservatory
[14:57] <M0RBD> haha
[14:57] <ReggieUK> I was living in a 2nd floor flat
[14:57] <M0RBD> I like when O2 calls me...
[14:57] <M0RBD> (I know it's them I checked the nr)..
[14:57] <M0RBD> they ask me to verify my ident... I usually say you should now you are calling me
[14:58] <fakker> the o2 calls heh
[14:58] <M0RBD> *click*
[14:58] <M0RBD> :D
[14:58] <fakker> i had those too
[14:58] <M0RBD> hehe
[14:58] <fakker> how do you find the service?
[14:58] <fakker> shit! stop ringing me!
[14:58] <M0RBD> :D
[14:58] <Caver> http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html <-- for the uk
[14:59] <Drazyl> run them through a security check... date of birth, post code, first line of address etc. and insist the answers are wrong
[14:59] <fakker> saying that, i moved over to Three recently
[14:59] <fakker> their call centres are all in India - but they're actually helpful
[14:59] <M0RBD> Caver: I think you need to renew every 3rd year most people forget that ..
[14:59] <Cheery> there's Mini UART and UART..
[14:59] <M0RBD> Drazyl: yeah haha
[15:00] * M0RBD used to sign shop returns with George W Bush..
[15:00] <M0RBD> Ups/Fedex packages too
[15:00] <M0RBD> well they say "write a name"
[15:00] <M0RBD> :D
[15:00] <M0RBD> so I did
[15:01] <Drazyl> we used to regularly sign for the off-site backup tapes as mickey mouse and complain if it wasn't noticed
[15:01] <Caver> you do, but they do email you to say so!
[15:02] <Matt> Drazyl: and what did they say when it was noticed?
[15:02] <Drazyl> "thats not your name"
[15:02] <Drazyl> which is fair enough
[15:03] <Drazyl> security procedures are fun
[15:04] <Drazyl> or we'd send someone out who wasn't on the authorised list
[15:04] * [XeN] (~XenGi@46.115.18.165) Quit (Quit: Goodbye and thx for all the fish.)
[15:04] <Drazyl> "they won't let me sign for it"... "good"
[15:05] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[15:05] <M0RBD> hehe
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[15:13] <Cheery> ReggieUK: teh USB-UART I have.. can it only receive or send data?
[15:13] <Cheery> or do both?
[15:13] <Cheery> seems like primary UART has two inputs and outputs.
[15:14] <Caver> USB UART? as in a USB plug in dongle type serial port?
[15:14] <Cheery> and it seems I need to program two interrupts.
[15:15] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-58-8-51-6.revip2.asianet.co.th) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:15] <Cheery> one for sending and another for receiving
[15:15] <Cheery> Caver: yes.
[15:16] <Cheery> ReggieUK: okay.. seems like it wouldn't be too bad. :)
[15:17] <Cheery> BCM3825 ARM Peripherals give the register view.. and tell it's in 0x7E20100
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[15:23] <wcchandler> joy... raid 5 of 9 drives.. 2 crapped out
[15:23] <wcchandler> and data is all gone
[15:24] * plastikC (~SITH@155.255.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:24] <plastikC> hail
[15:24] <lennard> that many drives should be a raid6 anyway ;)
[15:24] <plastikC> STATUS on pi?
[15:24] <plastikC> new years eve?
[15:24] <wcchandler> now maybe management can "find" money for our replication appliance that's all of about $3k
[15:24] <fALSO> lol
[15:24] <shirro> plastikC: tomorrow probably :-)
[15:25] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.kleptones.com/pages/downloads_hiphopera.html
[15:25] <RaTTuS|BIG> gak - wrong window
[15:25] <wcchandler> lennard: yeah, I didn't make it. not to mention 3 yrs running and only had 2 other drives fail before then and they were ~6mos apart
[15:25] <plastikC> tomorrow? that would be nice
[15:25] <wcchandler> didn't think they'd both fail over the weekend
[15:25] <wcchandler> and we had a spare in the SAN
[15:26] <wcchandler> just nobody added it to the pool after putting in
[15:26] <wcchandler> so it was just sitting there doing nothing
[15:26] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:26] <Matt> lennard: depends on setup - you actually take a pretty hefty hit on the number of iops your array can sustain to your apps by going from R5 to R6
[15:27] <lennard> so go for a raid50 or 60 :)
[15:27] <Matt> wcchandler: software or hardware raid?
[15:27] <lennard> yes, yes, I know thats more expensive
[15:27] <Matt> 9 disks is a bit small for 50
[15:27] <wcchandler> mm-hmm.. I'd just go for competent coworkers ;)
[15:27] <Matt> heh
[15:27] <plastikC> until i see one with my eyes
[15:27] * P4R4N01D1 (~johndoe@189.83.175.94) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[15:27] <lennard> well, its the classes 'pick 2' really
[15:28] <plastikC> pi is just vaporware
[15:28] <lennard> low risk, high performance, cheap: pick 2
[15:28] <Matt> also, was there a hot spare? or did the second disk fail inside your rebuild window?
[15:28] <wcchandler> we don't care about performance, just redundancy... this is used for backups
[15:28] <Matt> lennard: quite - we go through this with our customers quite frequently :)
[15:28] <Caver> they always do ... to be honest RAID 1+0 is a much better idea
[15:29] <wcchandler> Matt: had one hot spare but it wasn't in the pool, see competent coworker ;)
[15:29] <Caver> yes it's a bit more expensive, but you do tend to come out of it a lot more easily
[15:29] <Matt> wcchandler: nice :)
[15:29] <Matt> wcchandler: disks totally dead, or just dead enough to be booted out of the array?
[15:29] <traulita1a> plastikC: tupperware
[15:29] <wcchandler> dead enough, SMART failure
[15:29] <Matt> wcchandler: hardware or software raid?
[15:30] <wcchandler> magick sauce but I assume it's hardware
[15:30] <Matt> wcchandler: in which case, you may need to talk to your vendor, but normally I use dd_rescue or such to clone the disk that failed most recently
[15:30] <Matt> then assemble the array with the clone
[15:30] <wcchandler> Matt: PDF Warning! http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCwQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coraid.com%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2Fproducts%2FCoraid_SRX4200_Datasheet.pdf&ei=LFmVT4CDAaat6AGpwKS6BA&usg=AFQjCNHlXVZbgg8nQX6kE0evqDYLkKdxbg
[15:31] <Matt> with linux md it's pretty straightforward
[15:31] <wcchandler> Matt: well it won't let me rebuild the volume with anything...
[15:31] <Matt> with 3aare and LSI will let you force assemble, but I think you need to get support involved to do it
[15:31] <Drazyl> coraid is bsd or linux IIRC ?
[15:32] <wcchandler> I just filled out the support email asking for the best way to go about.. but yeah, I'm familiar with dd_rescue
[15:32] <wcchandler> coraid is bsd or a pretty nice bastardization of it :P
[15:32] <plastikC> traulita1a: with a tupperware you can make a case for pi
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[15:33] * Caver has used a old ciggy packet
[15:33] <traulita1a> plastikC: tupperware cases are more expensive than pi.. :(
[15:33] <traulita1a> and more usefull
[15:33] <traulita1a> :S
[15:33] <fALSO> LOL
[15:33] <plastikC> lolol
[15:33] <plastikC> at least you can carry it
[15:34] <traulita1a> and have sound
[15:34] <traulita1a> just tap it with both hands and you listen to samba
[15:34] <phantoxe> but still, they both have 1 thing in comon
[15:34] <plastikC> when you close it or open
[15:34] <traulita1a> plastikC: true.dat
[15:34] <phantoxe> there's no 2D acceleration
[15:34] <phantoxe> ;-)
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[15:35] <plastikC> lol
[15:38] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@unaffiliated/hopsy) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:39] <Matt> ahha
[15:39] <Matt> finally found someone with the front cover of this book online :)
[15:39] <Matt> http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/big/9483/The-Beginners-Programming-Handbook/
[15:40] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:40] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:42] <Caver> a ozborne one?
[15:42] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:42] <Caver> yay I still have my one on microcomputers, calculators and lasers
[15:42] <Caver> they're great
[15:43] <Matt> I do belive it's published by "Usborne"
[15:43] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@240-134.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:43] <Caver> sorry - old old memory of the name!
[15:44] <Caver> I learn't how to use the X <--> Y button on my scientific calculator from that series, and it's still useful even now
[15:46] <Matt> :)
[15:47] * Simooon (~simon@h196.natout.aau.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[15:48] <plastikC> wut?
[15:51] * stereohead-away is now known as stereohead
[15:53] * dfaler (~dfaler@12.131.0.2) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:56] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:56] <BenO> Matt, the computing history guys are cool + lots of pics of their stuff online :)
[15:57] <BenO> Matt they are providing the retro machines for http://www.siliconmilkroundcambridge.com/ - there's a 'program a beeb' challenge :)
[16:00] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:01] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:01] * SirLagz_ is now known as SirLagz
[16:01] * Simooon (~simon@h196.natout.aau.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:05] * Mavy is now known as Mavy-bnc
[16:05] <Mookman288> BNCCCCCC
[16:06] <SirLagz> BNC ? Coax ?
[16:06] <plastikC> at least bnc network would work, since ethernet does not
[16:07] <fALSO> LOL
[16:07] <Mookman288> shroudBNC is where it's at
[16:07] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:08] <SirLagz> now I'm lost
[16:08] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-58-8-51-6.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:09] * capiscuas (~capiscuas@ppp-58-8-51-6.revip2.asianet.co.th) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:09] <Matt> "bnc network"
[16:09] <Matt> that's just so wrong :)
[16:09] <Matt> given BNC is a connector
[16:09] <SirLagz> haha
[16:09] <Matt> that's like saying "quarter-inch jack network"
[16:09] <Caver> used in 10base2 ... aka thinnet
[16:10] <Matt> or "RJ45 network"
[16:10] <plastikC> wow
[16:10] <plastikC> masters
[16:10] <plastikC> I smell them
[16:10] * Diogo (~Diogo@bl10-139-147.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit ()
[16:10] <Matt> Caver: correct, except "at least bnc network would work, since ethernet does not" would imply it's not 10base2 :)
[16:10] <Matt> given 10base2 would be ethernet
[16:11] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:14] <BenO> Ah econet, now that was some sweet stuff :p
[16:14] <Matt> ah, it's econet we're talking about is it? :)
[16:14] * Matt remembers that
[16:14] <SirLagz> sounds like it's before my time...oldest i used was thinnet coax lol
[16:14] <Drazyl> you're doing it wrong, you attach the messages to the connectors and lob them at the recipient
[16:15] <Drazyl> hence... PING.... ACK!!!
[16:15] <Matt> BenO: except econet wasn't bnc either... :)
[16:15] <Caver> hmm econet was those horrid DIN connectors with 5 pins in them
[16:15] <zgreg> http://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/so07g/how_would_you_say_the_rpi_compares_hardwarewiese/c4fjd6x
[16:15] <SirLagz> lol Drazyl
[16:15] <zgreg> it's amazing how wrong you can be
[16:15] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:15] <BenO> Matt, true, but it got me thinking ;)
[16:16] <BenO> zgreg, "A all-on-one chip almost always means something was left out. " :)
[16:16] <zgreg> yeah
[16:17] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189.83.183.177) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:17] <Drazyl> yeah, I find that all the time, left over transistors just sitting in the box
[16:17] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:17] <BenO> Caver, horrid? HORRID? they were teh awsme! Especially back in 92 when we had terminal access to a *nix box via some beebs
[16:18] <SirLagz> So...just out of curiosity, anyone ever had issues with wireless on linux ? I have a box with wifi that I can't connect to unless I ping FROM the box first.
[16:18] <BenO> The entire school used "pine" for email back then... those were the days...
[16:18] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:21] * timmillwood (~timmillwo@93-96-172-196.zone4.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:22] <BenO> SirLagz, "anyone ever had issues with wireless on linux" - I think the majority of those people who have been using linux for a while have.
[16:22] * Matt used pine for years
[16:22] <timmillwood> anyone edited start.elf?
[16:22] <Matt> in fact, one of our customers still has users who do
[16:22] <Matt> although these days it's alpine
[16:22] <SirLagz> BenO: Probably. Thought I meant recently :P
[16:23] <Matt> SirLagz: well my netbook is going through a phase of misbehaving from time to time
[16:23] <SirLagz> Matt: what's it doing ?
[16:23] <Matt> which I think is prolly a firmware issue
[16:23] <Matt> it'll stop passing traffic
[16:24] <Matt> till it gets to the point where it decides to reassociate
[16:24] <Matt> then it'll work fine for a bit
[16:24] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[16:24] <SirLagz> Matt: mine have a similar issue
[16:24] <BenO> Matt, wow - at least it's been superseded!
[16:25] <Matt> as a text based mail client it's still pretty damn good :)
[16:25] <Matt> even the version of pine I was using could talk IMAP
[16:25] <Matt> and that was years ago
[16:26] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:26] <BenO> Maccer, I hopped to Mutt from pine and then went to gui clients where I lose all cred ;)
[16:27] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has left #raspberrypi
[16:27] <SirLagz> I'm a sad sad soul...I've always used GUI clients :(
[16:28] * DooMMasteR (~DooMMaste@unaffiliated/doommaster) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[16:29] <Matt> I tend to use mutt these days when I'm accessing mail from a terminal
[16:29] <SirLagz> I don't have to do that much nowadays.
[16:29] <Caver> BenO: I say yes horrid - spend many many lunchtimes, segmenting the entire school network, trying to find out which one was blocking the clock signal ....
[16:29] <SirLagz> I use my phone as a last resort lol
[16:29] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:30] <BenO> Matt, yeah :) I wonder if the Pi's limited GUI (atm) might spark off new interest in ncurses/etc? ;)
[16:30] <SirLagz> true
[16:30] * Guest32341 (~DooMMaste@2002:86a9:ac01:affe:5604:a6ff:fe85:a556) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:31] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[16:31] * s[x] (~sx]@ppp59-167-157-96.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:31] <BenO> Caver, Heh, there was that :) You have my sympathies and gratitude!
[16:31] <Matt> BenO: dialog is fantastic :D
[16:31] <Matt> I actually ended up using dialog again recently for a customer job
[16:31] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[16:32] <Matt> needed a quick and dirty menu system to allow them to run a series of shell scripts
[16:32] <SirLagz> is dialog easy to use ?
[16:32] <M0RBD> tcl/dialog
[16:32] <BenO> It's really nice to use :)
[16:32] <M0RBD> ?
[16:32] <SirLagz> interesting
[16:32] <Matt> SirLagz: it's a command you can call from your shell scripts and will do full screen text dialog boxes
[16:32] <SirLagz> ah
[16:33] <SirLagz> I was under the impression that it required more than that
[16:33] <SirLagz> nice
[16:33] <BenO> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2460
[16:33] <Matt> apt-get install dialog; man dialog
[16:33] <BenO> "Improve Bash Shell Scripts Using Dialog" from 1999 ;)
[16:33] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:33] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:33] <SirLagz> that old ? wow
[16:34] <Matt> oh, dialog itself is ancient
[16:34] <Matt> all slackware's install scripts used it :)
[16:34] <Matt> going back as far as I remember
[16:34] <BenO> Older than that hills but Just Works?
[16:34] <Matt> and I started using slackware in 93 IIRC
[16:34] <BenO> the*
[16:34] <Matt> from the man page:
[16:34] <Matt> Dialog is a program that will let you to present a variety of questions or display messages using dialog boxes from a shell script. These types of dialog boxes are
[16:34] <Matt> implemented (though not all are necessarily compiled into dialog):
[16:35] <Matt> calendar, checklist, dselect, editbox, form, fselect, gauge, infobox, inputbox, inputmenu, menu, mixedform, mixedgauge, msgbox (message), passwordbox,
[16:35] <Matt> passwordform, pause, progressbox, radiolist, tailbox, tailboxbg, textbox, timebox, and yesno (yes/no).
[16:37] <Matt> so yeah - it's pretty neat :)
[16:37] <SirLagz> interesting
[16:37] <SirLagz> I only heard about dialogue recently
[16:37] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:38] <SirLagz> then again I wasn't into the whole shell scripting until recently
[16:38] * Kushykins is now known as Kushan
[16:41] <Matt> the closest I get to writing code these days is shell scripts
[16:41] <friggle> also see zenity
[16:41] <passstab> http://www.thepowerbase.com/2012/04/sos-save-our-slackware/
[16:41] <passstab> :'(
[16:42] <SirLagz> Matt: lol. I use JScript quite a bit at work.
[16:42] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-58-165-87-194.qld.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[16:42] * mkopack (~mkopack@70-10-171-119.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:43] <shirro> And whiptail is dialog without curses
[16:44] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[16:45] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[16:45] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:45] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:47] <BenO> "Ubuntu 12.10 Has a Name: Quantal Quetzal" ...
[16:48] <Drazyl> that's not a name, it's a high score in scrabble
[16:48] <SirLagz> hahaha
[16:48] <SirLagz> I'm not even using Ubuntu 12.04 yet, still on 11.10
[16:48] <Caver> lol another new word to learn for googling
[16:49] <BenO> Still, might lead to some interesting desktop/branding artwork
[16:49] <Caver> I'm sorry sir, did you sneeze or were you describing a ubuntu release?
[16:49] <RaTTuS|BIG> 11121
[16:49] <RaTTuS|BIG> umm
[16:49] * kvarley (~kevin@unaffiliated/kvarley) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:49] <passstab> Caver, the line is gezuntite
[16:49] <BenO> They are colourful little fellows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Golden-headed_Quetzal.jpg
[16:49] <Matt> BenO: that reminds me hitchhikers
[16:50] <Matt> the Quentalas Quazgar mountains, IIRC
[16:55] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: kcj)
[16:56] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:58] * linagee (~linagee@about/linux/staff/linagee) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:58] * linagee (~linagee@about/linux/staff/linagee) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:58] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:58] <BenO> Matt, I must admit I can't remember that! :)
[17:03] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[17:03] * cato (~cato@cer.xnis.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:04] <cato> Hi, has anyone connected a rfm12-module to the spi-interface of a rpi?
[17:04] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:05] * rpiloose (~luser@37-8-162-7.coucou-networks.fr) has left #raspberrypi
[17:05] <Matt> BenO: god's last message to his creation
[17:06] <passstab> lol
[17:07] * FZombie (~STN@pdpc/supporter/student/GPLGeek) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:07] * Mavy-bnc is now known as Mavy
[17:08] * diplo (~diplo@cpc2-trow1-0-0-cust1447.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:08] <BenO> ?According to So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish, God?s Final Message To His Creation is written in fire in letters thirty feet high on the far side of the Quentulus Quazgar Mountains in the land of Sevorbeupstry on the planet of Preliumtarn, which orbits the star Zarss, which is located in the Grey Binding Fiefdoms of Saxaquine. The long path to the message is lined with souvenir stands at spaced-out intervals.
[17:08] <BenO> When Marvin reads the message, it says, ?We apologise for the inconvenience.? However, Fenchurch?s reaction suggests that the message she saw was the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything (and that presumably, therefore, the Message is personalized to each viewer).?
[17:09] <Caver> :)
[17:09] <Caver> I still blame the dolphins
[17:12] * gabriel9 (~quassel@92.241.143.37) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:12] * pdp7 (~pdp7@asciipr0n.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:13] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:18] <Matt> BenO: now you have to go re-read the books, right? :)
[17:18] <IT_Sean> Dammit. Now I need to.
[17:18] <IT_Sean> :/
[17:19] <IT_Sean> Thanks fer that.
[17:19] <BenO> lol :)
[17:19] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@199.119.232.1) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:19] <Caver> much better go relisten to the infamous Radio 4 version
[17:19] <BenO> There's an all-in-one kindle ebook of them, if you are so inclined. Might mean you don't even need to get out of your seat...
[17:22] <Hydrazine> hehe
[17:27] * alyosha_sql (~a@88.200.57.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:29] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:29] * Matthew is now known as Guest59998
[17:30] * Owner (~Owner@gateway/tor-sasl/owner) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] <BenO> https://twitter.com/#!/iamBaird/status/194446100550266880/photo/1 heh, teeny wifi and 8Gb USB on the Pi
[17:32] <Owner> can these things be bought yet?
[17:33] <Caver> the wifi or the actual Pi?
[17:33] <Owner> the Raspberry Pi
[17:33] <tpresence> zing!
[17:34] <Caver> you can pre order from the next batch to be made
[17:34] <IT_Sean> The pi is back ordered, Owner
[17:34] <IT_Sean> You can preorder, though
[17:34] <tpresence> 350k backordered :D
[17:34] <Owner> how much ram is in them
[17:34] <tpresence> 224M
[17:34] <Caver> http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs have a read
[17:35] <Owner> ok
[17:35] <IT_Sean> It's 256mb, but the gpu takes part of that
[17:35] <Owner> right
[17:36] <Owner> should i wait until the gpu has an accelerated x driver?
[17:36] <Caver> at the moment it's release is a developer one, so there are lots of software things to be sorted out
[17:37] <Owner> needs an armedslack port
[17:37] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:37] <Caver> if it is important to you, then yes
[17:37] <Owner> well its not that important, but...it sure would be nice
[17:37] <IrquiM> armedslack should work on it already
[17:38] <Caver> people are working on it, I'm sure it will come with time
[17:38] <Owner> yeah except the bootloader or wahtever
[17:38] <Owner> kind of a shame that it has some closed source stuff in it
[17:39] <tpresence> the most significant parts are closed
[17:39] <Owner> basically
[17:40] <Caver> the bootloader, and the open gl es driver ...
[17:40] <Caver> think the rest is open
[17:40] <Caver> still if thats a deal breaker .. don't buy it!
[17:40] <Owner> it just kind of sucks...
[17:40] <Caver> awww
[17:41] <Drazyl> I have a closed BIOS and binary blob on my video card for my PC, so can't say it makes much difference
[17:41] <Caver> ditto
[17:41] <SpeedEvil> All PCs you can buy have some closed buts.
[17:41] <Caver> my ATI graphics card has a closed blog
[17:41] <Caver> blob
[17:42] <Caver> I just don't get why people get so worked up about the blobs on the Pi
[17:42] <Owner> yes, but it also has an accelerated x driver
[17:42] <Caver> so will the Pi
[17:42] <Drazyl> the Pi will get one
[17:43] <BenO> It's a matter of time and technique - lots of ways to accelerate 2d gui's.
[17:43] <Caver> Open GL ES is documented in full here http://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/
[17:43] <BenO> More docs on the capabilities of the video core wouldn't go amiss though
[17:43] <Drazyl> and you can boot something else by obeying the same rules it uses for Linux - in the same way that Linux on x86 obeys the same rules as are used for booting DOS
[17:44] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:45] <Owner> how many bogomips does it report
[17:45] <BenO> Bugger all ;)
[17:46] <Caver> Calibrating delay loop... 795.44 BogoMIPS (lpj=3977216)
[17:46] * Bhaal (~bhaal@freenode/staff-emeritus/bhaal) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:46] <Owner> thx
[17:46] <Caver> http://pastebin.com/Mnyem347
[17:46] * Bhaal (~bhaal@freenode/staff-emeritus/bhaal) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:46] <BenO> Owner, it's not something to judge it by
[17:46] <Owner> do you have a multimeter?
[17:46] <IT_Sean> What the arse is a bogomip?
[17:47] <tpresence> thats softfp bogomips?
[17:47] <Caver> it's a very very crude estimation of speed by the linux kernel
[17:47] <BenO> IT_Sean, an awful, hand-wavy stat that the kernel 'works out' when it boots
[17:47] <IT_Sean> Ooh
[17:47] <Caver> tpresence, its debian so yes
[17:47] <mkopack> Bogus MIP - just some sort of "standard" way of benchmarking performance of one Linux machine vs another
[17:47] <BenO> Pure loop speed really
[17:47] <IT_Sean> So, basically
[17:47] * Simooon (~simon@h196.natout.aau.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:47] <Caver> Owner, yes - why?
[17:47] <BenO> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BogoMips#Computation_of_BogoMIPS
[17:47] <IT_Sean> It's a sudo random number that nerds use to compare the "size" of their "hardware"?
[17:48] <Owner> Caver: when you plug in some usb stuff and max the cpu,. what amp draw do you get
[17:48] <BenO> IT_Sean, It's more like "How fast can I loop and do nothing?"
[17:48] <IT_Sean> Oh
[17:48] <IT_Sean> I see
[17:48] <Caver> well the very most you can draw is 1A @ 5V because that is what the main fuse on the Pi is rated for
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> Owner: It depends on what USB stuff
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> And a bit more than 1A, if you keep the board cool
[17:48] <IT_Sean> The fuse 'll pop at 1A
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> It won't.
[17:49] <Owner> one AMP is a hell of a lot
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> If it's a polyfuse, the first time it pops considerably over 1A
[17:49] <IT_Sean> Fine. It's RATED for 1a
[17:50] <Caver> Owner, well 5W
[17:50] <Owner> :)
[17:50] <tpresence> the adapters that come with the pi are 500mA
[17:50] <Owner> what would i need to run it on battery+solar only
[17:50] <tpresence> so it cant draw more than that without issues
[17:50] <Caver> the main system with out USB devices is meant to max out at 3.5W in use ... aka 0.7A @ 5V
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> Owner: Depends where you are.
[17:50] <BenO> tpresence, really?!
[17:50] <BenO> Which one is selling those?
[17:51] <IT_Sean> tpresence: 700mA, no?
[17:51] <tpresence> RS
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Owner: here in the my bit of scotland, of the order of a 250W panel, and a 50Ah or so 12V battery
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Owner: And it'll still go dark 1-2 days a year.
[17:51] <mjr> tpresence, oh my. Have they screwed up that bad.
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Some parts of the world are considerably better.
[17:51] <Owner> SpeedEvil~# heh, lets assume a little more light
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Owner: Where are you?
[17:52] <tpresence> well I cant test
[17:52] <Owner> eastern us
[17:52] <tpresence> because they sent me a euro supply
[17:52] <BenO> tpresence, is that what it says on the side?
[17:52] <tpresence> it says nothing
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> Owner: Are you actually looking for 24*7?
[17:52] <tpresence> very NOT documented on the model I have
[17:52] <tpresence> I know the B was supposed to require a 700ma supply
[17:52] <BenO> tpresence, Christ! They really are crap...
[17:53] <tpresence> I am currently using a 550mA supply from one of my mot phones
[17:53] <tpresence> runs fine
[17:53] <Owner> SpeedEvil~# compactness would be more important.... you are saying that 24/7 requires a huge panel and battery ?
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> If you want 24*7
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> As the fundamental problem is coping with a week of shit weather in january
[17:53] <Owner> yea
[17:53] <Caver> well it depends ... how bad would a shut down be?
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> When the panel may peak at a tenth of its nominal output for four of hours a day
[17:54] <Owner> maybe i can run it off potatoes in the winter
[17:54] <RaTTuS|BIG> some useful info in http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/solar-power
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> Owner: Ideally, you'd find a local solar power installation that provides figures
[17:54] <RaTTuS|BIG> after page one or so
[17:55] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:55] <Owner> http://www.solartechnology.co.uk/shop/freeloader-classic.htm
[17:55] * Veryevil (~Veryevil@83.166.186.218) Quit ()
[17:55] <tpresence> 550mA has been working
[17:56] <tpresence> but my wireless kb/mouse range SUCKS :D
[17:58] <Owner> s/range//
[17:59] <SirLagz> I have a wireless keyboard that works from across my living room :D
[18:00] <tpresence> I guess I need to get a microusb 5V 1000mA supply
[18:01] <Caver> just about any powered USB hub then
[18:01] <Caver> and a USB <> microusb cable
[18:02] <BenO> Not all 5v 1A supplies are the same though - avoid cheapy stuff
[18:02] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: LUNCH)
[18:02] <BenO> You want a supply that puts out near 5V regardless of current draw
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> Owner: For example - http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=3744&sid=2940 - is a local site to me. Scroll back to january. Not pretty
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> Or november
[18:03] <Owner> yea
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> If you can live with 8h/day - it's a _lot_ easier
[18:04] <Owner> so the technology isnt there yet to have a raspi running 24/7 on a more or less portable setup
[18:04] <BenO> Owner, the raspi isn't very low-power at all
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> Not really.
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> And that.
[18:04] <Owner> fff
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> My mobile phone uses ~1% of power - when connected to a wifi network, and able to be ssh'd into
[18:05] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[18:05] <haltdef> n900 <3
[18:05] <Owner> so
[18:05] <Owner> 100 minutes ?
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> ?
[18:06] <Owner> or 1% of the raspi's power
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> no - it lasts a week on the standard battery
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> ish
[18:06] <Owner> !
[18:07] <Owner> which phone is that, and can it run tor
[18:07] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> This is not otherwise used, and idle, but logged into wifi, and being asked over ssh aobut its battery state every 5 min
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> nokia n900
[18:07] <Owner> thx
[18:07] <M0RBD> I found that the original battery on the N900 is rubbish.. Got a aftermarket one and the phone can stay on for 2 days without charging/normal usage..
[18:08] <M0RBD> the stock did not even last a day
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> M0RBD: at teh moment, original batteries will be very aged.
[18:08] <M0RBD> SpeedEvil: sure, but this was when it was brand new as well.
[18:08] <wcchandler> i don't charge my workphone over the weekend and it usually has 50% come monday morning
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> ah - never seen that
[18:08] <Caver> if your running TOR / Freenet then the CPU will be busy most of the time
[18:09] <Caver> so ... might have to recalculate your phone's battery times ...
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> If the network is active, you're looking at a broadly comparable draw to the pi
[18:10] <Owner> now im looking for the best phone that can run maemo
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> :/
[18:10] <Caver> how ever ... you do get a battery/laptop type UPS solution essentially for free if you use a phone
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> There is a choice of two.
[18:10] <Caver> which might be handy for a solar application
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> n9 and n900.
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> And neither is sold in major markets.
[18:11] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:12] <Owner> n9 is sexy, but no keyboard
[18:12] <Owner> though dont really need it for remote heh
[18:12] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@129.21.121.2) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:13] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:13] * cperrin88 (~cperrin88@dslb-084-059-109-147.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:13] <Owner> wow and..not sold in the first world
[18:14] <cperrin88> Hey, I'm having trouble to get my RPi to run at 1080p or i on my TV ... is something special needed?
[18:14] <wcchandler> hdmi cable
[18:14] <cperrin88> Several options from the tvservice give me a black screen
[18:14] <cperrin88> wcchandler: Check ;)
[18:14] <Caver> erk
[18:15] <wcchandler> is it booted up all the way? it usually queries the TV for which resolution to use
[18:15] * _sundar_ (~sundar@110.234.156.82) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:16] <Owner> 450 dollars for black n9 64gb
[18:16] <Caver> have you tried hdmi_drive=1 in the config.txt
[18:16] <Caver> ouch
[18:16] <Caver> the Pi is a lot cheaper then!
[18:17] <cperrin88> wcchandler: my TV seems to speak gibberish ... I had to force hdmi_drive=2 and I get a strange resolution
[18:17] <Caver> aha
[18:18] <Caver> disable_overscan=1
[18:18] <Owner> SpeedEvil~# https://meego.com/devices/handset/installing-meego-nokia-n900
[18:18] <cperrin88> Caver: check .. otherwise I had borders around my output
[18:18] <friggle> cperrin88: if you're using the latest release, you could dump your edit with /opt/vc/bin/tvservice -d edid.dat. If you posted it on the issue tracker the Broadcom EDID/HDMI guru could take a look and see if it's your monitor fault or the pi's fault
[18:19] <friggle> *edid
[18:19] * alyosha_sql (~a@88.200.57.130) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:19] <cperrin88> friggle: Someone did look at my edid already to get my sound working. But I don't get why all the "supported" modes don't seem to work
[18:19] * chronofast (~George@173-167-154-172-illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:20] <Owner> wasnt there a regression for 1080...? like if you update it might work
[18:20] <cperrin88> I'm currently going through them via config.txt
[18:21] <cperrin88> Owner: I'm using the latest image
[18:22] <Owner> ok
[18:23] <cperrin88> standard is rasolution is 1360x768
[18:23] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-09.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[18:23] <cperrin88> That isn't even on the list of resolutions that is outputed via tvservice
[18:24] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:24] * stuk_gen (~quassel@151.65.14.50) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:25] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:25] <Caver> hmm have you checked if your TV does do the full 1080p - a lot don't and scale it down to those kind of resolutions
[18:25] <cperrin88> AFAIK it does ... At least when I plug it into my computer it outputs 1080p/i
[18:25] * NIN101 (~NIN@2606:df00:2:0:216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:26] <cperrin88> BRB
[18:26] <Caver> look up the spec for the TV :)
[18:26] * mkopack is just loving seeing these posts from people saying stuff like "When I ordered I was given a shipping date of April 15, and I still don't have my Pi, what's going on?" Morons??? READ A LITTLE! geesh.
[18:29] <BenO> Caver, I think many of those ahem lying monitors/tvs also lie to the computer and do the downscaling onboard for the lower rez and cheaper (less dense) screen.
[18:29] <ReggieUK> at least the camera never lies
[18:30] <Caver> true
[18:30] <BenO> Does the latest debian img start the X server as well on boot?
[18:30] <BenO> Ah nvm, it doesn't
[18:33] <BenO> http://www.amazonsupply.com/ <--- ?!
[18:33] <Owner> yeah wait until there are enough before you buy one
[18:35] <cato> are there any news on hdmi-cec?
[18:36] <mkopack> BenO: Oh, nice!
[18:36] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:37] <BenO> mkopack, seems legit too, US based
[18:37] <mkopack> Sending that on to my cousin who runs a commercial cleaning business
[18:38] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@pool-108-7-230-209.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Done)
[18:41] * protozoa_ is now known as protozoa
[18:43] * henrique (~henrique@a89-155-88-245.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:43] * Guest50871 (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:43] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:44] * henrique (~henrique@a89-155-88-245.cpe.netcabo.pt) has left #raspberrypi
[18:44] * Owner (~Owner@gateway/tor-sasl/owner) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:49] * IT_Sean begins to quietly hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[18:50] * traulita1a (~spico@bl22-70-171.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:50] <SimonT> Did anyone here place an order from Export Farnell?
[18:50] <Caver> yes
[18:50] <shirro> BenO: Did you get a capture of that oops via serial?
[18:50] * kalem (~kalem@unaffiliated/kalem) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[18:50] * zer0her0 (~zer0her0@cpe-74-76-225-89.nycap.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[18:51] <SimonT> Caver: have you had your order filled, if so when was your order placed?
[18:51] <BenO> No, but someone else caught it instead this morning :)
[18:51] <Caver> yup I got it last week
[18:51] <SimonT> (if you don't mind)
[18:51] <Caver> <-- in the UK
[18:51] <Caver> and erm ... 8:10am I think
[18:51] <shirro> Yes, I saw and it was the same as Dom's except he had debugging enabled on his hernel
[18:51] * zer0her0 (~zer0her0@cpe-74-76-225-89.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:52] <Caver> Your Order no: 29/02/2012 08:08.
[18:52] <SimonT> Hmm.. so I assume you ordered it from uk.farnell.com not export.farnell.com ?
[18:52] <Caver> export.farnell.com .. :)
[18:53] <Caver> uk was down, so I thought I'd be cunning
[18:53] <Caver> it worked too
[18:53] <phantoxe> LOL
[18:53] <SimonT> really? that's weird, I placed my order at 07:09 and nothing :/
[18:53] <hotwings> lol
[18:53] <Caver> who knows - no one was more supprised than me, when I got it!
[18:53] <phantoxe> no matter what site, it will take "some" time to "process"
[18:54] <mkopack> hotwings: BTW, lol, mine is back to Aug 15...
[18:54] <SimonT> Caver: did they email you when your order was filled?
[18:54] <hotwings> mkopack - i dont feel so bad now. mine never moved back from aug 16 :\
[18:54] * zer0her0 (~zer0her0@cpe-74-76-225-89.nycap.res.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:55] <Caver> no ... actually the last email I got from them said July for delivery
[18:55] <Caver> next thing was a nice supprise from the UPS man!
[18:55] * zer0her0 (~zer0her0@cpe-74-76-225-89.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:55] <mkopack> Anyhow??? heading to lunch??? Later!
[18:55] * mkopack (~mkopack@70-10-171-119.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[18:56] <SimonT> Caver: Huh, thanks for the info. One last question (for now) do you know when they charged your credit card?
[18:57] <Caver> no! ... but I can find out tonight
[18:58] <Caver> ok ... just checked the email ... they did send me a "it's shipped email"
[18:58] <Caver> on 13th April ... thats when I got charged
[18:58] <SimonT> Alright thanks again, that's frustrating. My order was placed: 29/02/2012 07:06
[18:59] <Caver> which country are you in
[18:59] <SimonT> Canada
[18:59] <SimonT> I guess I'll call them up and see what they can tell me
[18:59] * Soul_Est (~nolanhayn@199.119.232.1) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[19:00] <SimonT> I know that Newark is the ideal distributor, but there was very little info at the time and I was (and still am) under the impression that ordering from Export Farnell to Canada is fine
[19:00] <Caver> yeah I guess it's only so many went to each country
[19:01] <SimonT> Maybe..
[19:03] <Caver> anyway give them a ring!
[19:03] <SimonT> I will, thanks again for your info
[19:06] <SimonT> Can't get through :/
[19:06] <SimonT> just beeps a couple times then hangs up
[19:10] * marlon_ (~marlon@musketeer.wlan.uni-jena.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:11] <FZombie> 96$ total cost to make 20 of those 6 meter antennas if you get most of the stuff at local shops.
[19:12] * st599 (~quassel@gateb.kw.bbc.co.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:12] <FZombie> so 20$ each is good profit for that guy
[19:12] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
[19:13] <FZombie> oops wrong chat
[19:13] <FZombie> hotkeys flipped irc tabs =)
[19:15] <FZombie> well I hope my raspi gets here before the november/september estimate because I'll need it to control my radios
[19:15] <SimonT> you had me interested :)
[19:16] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@c-67-170-113-60.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:17] <FZombie> you know when I saw it in the ham radio magazines and on a few videos I knew almost every ham was going to order them. I had been following for a long time before it was published.
[19:18] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[19:19] <SimonT> woops, i had messed up the long distance area codes.. Farnell's office is closed of course
[19:20] * Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:20] * Caver (~Caver@nat1.nipltd.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[19:20] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@129.21.121.2) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:21] * jmontleon (~jmontleon@pool-108-7-230-209.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:23] * matt1337357 (~matt@dhcp-140-247-114-138.fas.harvard.edu) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[19:25] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host98-125-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:27] * ragna (~ragna@e180085255.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:27] * ragna_ (~ragna@e180056095.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:30] * FZombie (~STN@pdpc/supporter/student/GPLGeek) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:32] * Triamis (~Mikoto@31.205.59.20) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:34] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[19:40] * RITRedbeard (RITReadbea@t410mobile.student.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:44] * phirsch (~phirsch@xdsl-89-0-97-105.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:47] * phirsch (~phirsch@xdsl-89-0-137-94.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-102-136-82.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] * marlon_ (~marlon@musketeer.wlan.uni-jena.de) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[19:52] * RITRedbeard (RITReadbea@t410mobile.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:52] <mkopack> Interesting, apparently there's a command line switch you can use with OpenJDK to cause it to use OPenGL to do the GUI rendering, even if X isn't accelerated...
[19:53] <cperrin88> mkopack: Amazing! Now write a video player that is accelerated!
[19:54] <mkopack> Probably not possible. Java Media Framework requires system specific libraries
[19:55] <cperrin88> Darn!
[19:57] <BenO> cperrin88, omxplayer should do the trick, if that is what you are interested in
[19:57] <cperrin88> is it in the repos?
[19:58] <BenO> part of the xbmc work - 'Gimli' has been working on this for a while and it apparently works well
[19:59] <mkopack> What I was talking about would just make it so all the Swing UI widgets and such would get painted by OpenGL vs use slow CPU rendering
[20:00] <mkopack> And as such, it might actually perform faster than "Native" apps
[20:03] <mkopack> Just because right now the native stuff isn't getting accelerated rendering.
[20:03] <mkopack> Anyhow??? BBIAB
[20:03] * _sundar_ (~sundar@117.193.170.4) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:03] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-102-136-82.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[20:05] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:05] <IT_Sean> Whoops! Apparently "'pint' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program, or batch file"
[20:05] <IT_Sean> :p
[20:06] <Matt> lol
[20:06] <zgreg> but does java2d opengl rendering support opengl es?
[20:06] <zgreg> as far as I know, nope
[20:06] <Matt> IT_Sean: freudian slip?
[20:06] <IT_Sean> Must have been
[20:06] <zgreg> besides, java2d opengl is really, really bad even on the PC :p
[20:10] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[20:13] <zgreg> recently a student I worked with had some performance problems with swing... and we tried to enable java2d opengl rendering
[20:13] <zgreg> the rendering was completely broken
[20:14] <cperrin88> I don't like JAva
[20:14] * Imtek (~Imtek@gangsta.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:14] <Imtek> hi
[20:14] <cperrin88> Hi Imtek
[20:14] <Imtek> cool to see this channel exists
[20:14] <IT_Sean> Matt, I'd rather FetchTea be a recognised command
[20:14] <IT_Sean> Hello Imtek
[20:14] <Imtek> still waiting for any signs of my raspberry pi that i ordered
[20:15] <IT_Sean> When did you order?
[20:15] <Imtek> with the preorder peroid at elements
[20:15] <Imtek> btw we also run a mirror for raspberrypi ;p
[20:15] <IT_Sean> Before Release Day?
[20:15] <zgreg> interestingly, jenny from farnell/element14 contacted me
[20:15] <IT_Sean> Rather, on Release Day?
[20:16] <Imtek> ehm what was the release day (a)
[20:16] <Matt> IT_Sean: especially on a day like today
[20:16] * IT_Sean forgets
[20:16] <IT_Sean> Heh
[20:16] <Imtek> i think 2 weeks ago or so
[20:16] <Matt> it's cold, damp and generally miserable out there
[20:16] <zgreg> I'm one of the guys that ordered pretty early but didn't get a pi still :/
[20:16] <IT_Sean> Yes, it is
[20:17] <zgreg> people that ordered after me have their pi
[20:17] <IT_Sean> Made all the worse by lack of good tea, dammit.
[20:17] <Imtek> did not get a email about my preorder
[20:17] * thweber (~thomas@81-89-104-214.blue.kundencontroller.de) has left #raspberrypi
[20:17] <Matt> IT_Sean: I really do sympathize :)
[20:17] <Imtek> maybe i need to contact element14/farnell
[20:17] <Matt> however I have a kettle, and tea
[20:17] <Imtek> but we will see ;p
[20:18] * Delboy_1 (~Kombajn@174-178.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:18] * IT_Sean has a bagged substance that isn't entirely unlike tea, and a hot waters tap on a coffee machine. :|
[20:18] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@240-134.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:19] <Imtek> where are you guys from ?
[20:19] <zgreg> Imtek: I'm from the internet
[20:19] <Imtek> lol ;p
[20:19] <IT_Sean> Im from the Internet too.
[20:19] <zgreg> and you are too, Imtek
[20:19] <Imtek> ghe
[20:19] <Imtek> i know
[20:20] <zgreg> j/k
[20:20] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:20] <zgreg> I think we have many british folks here, but I'm from germany
[20:20] <Imtek> i am from holland :)
[20:20] <Imtek> hello neighbour
[20:20] <zgreg> hi :)
[20:20] * IT_Sean wants to go back to working in the uk office. The tea was better there. :p
[20:20] <Imtek> i want my bike back heheehe ;)
[20:21] * mkopack (~mkopack@108.107.85.123) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:21] <IT_Sean> I'm Irish, living in the States.
[20:21] <Imtek> just kidding ofcourse zgreg ;)
[20:21] <Imtek> alles goed met jou zgreg ?
[20:21] <Imtek> maybe you will understand that also )
[20:21] <Imtek> ;)
[20:21] * Matt is a brit, living in Canada
[20:22] <Matt> hurrah st.george and all that
[20:22] <Imtek> i live near amsterdam ;)
[20:23] <IT_Sean> I think they britshave the advantage in numbers here. We do, however, haves few 'mericans, some EU'erx, and a few down-under-ers, if im not mistaken
[20:23] <IT_Sean> Pardon the typos, im on my iPad
[20:23] <zgreg> Imtek: I think I understand it, yes :p
[20:24] <Imtek> ich kann auch deutsch reden horen
[20:25] <Imtek> aber wir halten es in englisch
[20:25] <IT_Sean> ...
[20:25] * IT_Sean only understands two languages: English, and English English
[20:26] <Imtek> roundabout ;p
[20:26] <cperrin88> I live in Germany ... had my Pi ordered at RS ...now it lays here ... RS isa good bakery
[20:26] <Imtek> ;(
[20:26] <zgreg> a bakery?
[20:26] <cperrin88> Sure .. who else would make a Raspberry Pi
[20:26] <zgreg> Imtek: yeah, dutch and german are a bit similar... but what is really surprising is how different and strange danish is
[20:26] * IT_Sean groans
[20:27] <Imtek> i cant order it at RS
[20:27] <Imtek> stil says preorder
[20:27] <cperrin88> I had preordered on release day
[20:27] <Imtek> zgreg: its funny, but we have a part in holland that talks kinda danish
[20:27] <zgreg> I registered pretty early at RS (I think so, at least), but didn't get an invitation to order yet
[20:27] <Imtek> friesland we call it
[20:27] <Matt> Mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut :)
[20:27] <Imtek> but german is more
[20:28] <Imtek> how do you call it
[20:28] <Imtek> harsh
[20:28] <zgreg> I only get that useless "weekly update" mails
[20:28] <zgreg> s/that/these/
[20:28] * Matt did 5 years of German at highschool and ended up with an A in GCSE German
[20:28] <Imtek> dutch is more laid back in the language
[20:28] <Matt> but I don't remember all that much of it now :)
[20:28] <Imtek> in style of speaking
[20:28] * IT_Sean always wanted to learn German, so he could use it to shout at people. :p
[20:28] <zgreg> Matt: 3 years of spanish, same thing
[20:29] <Matt> Ich mochte eine tasse tea, bitte :)
[20:29] <cperrin88> IT_Sean: French is good for this purpose
[20:29] <IT_Sean> I took French in school.
[20:29] <Matt> french would have been far more practical
[20:29] <IT_Sean> Failed utterly at it
[20:29] <zgreg> Matt: that's almost correct :p
[20:29] <Matt> given where I've ended up
[20:29] <IT_Sean> And don't remember any of it
[20:29] * koaschten (~koaschten@31-16-2-45-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:29] <cperrin88> IT_Sean: No loss
[20:29] <Matt> zgreg: see :) that's what I was saying
[20:30] <zgreg> but if you cannot write umlauts, they should be replaced by oe, ue and ae
[20:30] <Imtek> but after all dutch is a germanian language
[20:30] <cperrin88> Matt: I have wild cherry tea ... want some? :D
[20:30] <Imtek> germanic*
[20:30] <cperrin88> German and English are related ..
[20:31] <Matt> cperrin88: actually, that sounds ratehr nice
[20:31] <Matt> cperrin88: $language and english are related, most of the time
[20:31] <Iota_> Huzzar, I got my new switch. Now I can delete this temporary nat.
[20:31] * Iota_ is now known as Iota
[20:31] <Matt> zgreg: how's ?? look?
[20:31] * dFshadow (~rev@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-wowudvesjdbvyqzn) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:32] <cperrin88> AFIAK English is mostly related to: Latin, Celtic, French, Anglo Saxon ...
[20:32] * Guest59998 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:32] * dFshadow (~rev@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-xwbltmgadesmszcn) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:33] <Imtek> deutsch english oder niederlandisch, wind alle familie
[20:33] <Matt> cperrin88: intresting little fact - quite often the english name for an animal we eat is taken from the anglosaxon, and the name for the cooked meat is taken from the norman
[20:33] <Matt> cow/beef, for example
[20:33] <cperrin88> I'm still wondering how such an easy language could be born out of so many crappy ones
[20:34] <Imtek> yeah
[20:34] <Matt> a friend of mine did linguistics of some variety at university
[20:35] <cperrin88> Matt: Interesting, tell me more!
[20:35] * nrdb (~neil@101.161.229.250) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:35] * IT_Sean resists the urge to make a crude joke here
[20:36] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-183-255-82.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:36] <Imtek> IT_Sean: just do it ;)
[20:36] * Matt doesn't remember huge amounts :)
[20:36] <Imtek> dont mention zhe war
[20:36] <Matt> but that bit of trivia lodged in my brain
[20:36] <Imtek> they alway say in germany ;p
[20:36] <Matt> my head is filled with all sorts of useless trivia
[20:37] <cperrin88> I was just wondering if there is an english word for what I'm currently eating
[20:37] <Matt> cperrin88: probably - what is it?
[20:37] <Imtek> always funny with football (soccer) suddenly there is some big germany-holland issue
[20:37] <cperrin88> Fleischk??se
[20:37] <Matt> meatcheese?
[20:37] <cperrin88> xD
[20:37] * mpthompson (~IceChat77@c-50-131-39-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:38] <Imtek> lollllll
[20:38] <cperrin88> More like "a special kind of meatloaf!
[20:38] <cperrin88> "
[20:38] <Imtek> ugh ;p
[20:39] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:39] * Matthew is now known as Guest149
[20:39] <Matt> cperrin88: there is such a thing as a Head Cheese
[20:39] <Imtek> lol
[20:39] <Imtek> dude
[20:39] <cperrin88> Matt: Is it like a Headache?
[20:39] <Imtek> *rofl*
[20:39] <Imtek> *rofl*
[20:39] <Imtek> *rofl*
[20:39] <Imtek> *rofl*
[20:39] <Matt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_cheese
[20:40] <mkopack> Matt: Yup??? And it's NASTY looking
[20:40] <cperrin88> That's totally not what I??m eating
[20:40] <IT_Sean> Eeeeew! Head cheese! Nahsty!
[20:40] <cperrin88> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleischk%C3%A4se
[20:40] <Imtek> headchease is kopkaas in dutch
[20:40] <Matt> I have to say I've never tried it myself
[20:40] <Imtek> in dutch that is
[20:40] <cperrin88> That's what I'm eating
[20:40] <Imtek> on your dingadong
[20:41] <Imtek> when you dont wash it regurly
[20:41] <mkopack> Just seeing it on one of those "Modern Marvells" shows on Deli meats nearly made me puke
[20:41] <Matt> however I used to be quite partial to tongue sandwiches
[20:41] <cperrin88> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leberk%C3%A4se
[20:41] <cperrin88> even on english
[20:41] <zgreg> leberk??se is pretty good
[20:41] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:41] <cperrin88> Yep
[20:41] <mkopack> Ok, so that's basically ground up liver...
[20:42] <cperrin88> especially freshly baked (like mine)
[20:42] <Imtek> ugh
[20:42] <Imtek> head cheese
[20:42] <zgreg> but despite the name meaning "liver cheese" it contains neither liver nor cheese, and doesn't taste like cheese either
[20:42] * dal9000 (~dal@unaffiliated/dal9k) Quit (Quit: Gone to /dev/null)
[20:43] * dal9000 (~dal@diag-2-2.rdg.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:43] * dal9000 (~dal@diag-2-2.rdg.ac.uk) Quit (Changing host)
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[20:43] <cperrin88> I guess whoever doesn't like head cheese should stay away from hagis
[20:43] <Matt> haggis is fantastic :D
[20:43] * Matt loves haggis
[20:43] <Matt> and black pudding
[20:44] <zgreg> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scotland_Haggis.jpg
[20:44] <zgreg> ugh
[20:44] <Matt> although probably not in the same meal
[20:44] <PiOfCube> head cheese? I thought you were talking about smegma for a moment there ;-)
[20:44] <Matt> a proper full english breakfast isn't complete without a slice or two of black pudding :)
[20:44] * IT_Sean vomits
[20:44] <mkopack> PiOfCube: BARF!
[20:44] * Delboy_ (~Kombajn@248-54.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:44] <cperrin88> Matt: the word pudding can be very confusing for a german. Here a Pussing is always a sweet thing
[20:45] <Matt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pudding
[20:45] <IT_Sean> PiOfCube: NASTY!
[20:45] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:45] <cperrin88> Black Pussing is a bit like what we call "blutwurst"
[20:45] <zgreg> come on guys, have you ever tasted natto? :D
[20:45] <cperrin88> *Pudding
[20:45] <zgreg> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natt%C5%8D
[20:45] <zgreg> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Natto_on_rice.jpg
[20:46] <cperrin88> Looks .. not so delicous
[20:46] <Matt> cperrin88: yus :)
[20:46] * Guest149 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:46] <Matt> and now I'm hungry again
[20:46] <Matt> and I only just had lunch
[20:46] <cperrin88> Matt: I still have some Leberk??se left
[20:46] <cperrin88> want some?
[20:47] * Delboy_1 (~Kombajn@174-178.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:47] <cperrin88> The Video looks nasty
[20:47] * _sundar_ (~sundar@117.193.170.4) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:49] * Xark (32717be5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.113.123.229) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:49] <zgreg> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Natto_opening_stirring.ogv
[20:49] * IT_Sean makes a cup of tea like substance
[20:49] <zgreg> :D
[20:49] <zgreg> it looks so yummy!
[20:50] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] <Matt> cperrin88: I think it would probably spoil by the time it gets here
[20:51] <cperrin88> You could come over :D
[20:51] <Matt> it's a little early for tea
[20:51] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:51] <IT_Sean> Near
[20:51] <IT_Sean> Nearly 3pm here. Code enough for me
[20:52] <IT_Sean> *close
[20:52] <cperrin88> nelary 9 PM here
[20:52] <cperrin88> *neearly
[20:52] <cperrin88> damn -_-
[20:52] <PiOfCube> Kombucha tea is disgusting to make but if done right is quite nice.. Though not a real tea.
[20:52] <cperrin88> I need autocorrect on my keyboard
[20:52] * kvarley (~kevin@unaffiliated/kvarley) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:52] * mpthompson (~IceChat77@c-50-131-39-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Not that there is anything wrong with that)
[20:53] <IT_Sean> This is a brownish watery fluid that has got a splash of milk and some sugar innit. It is not, however, tea.
[20:53] <cperrin88> I never had tea with milk
[20:53] <PiOfCube> milk in tea... horrid
[20:54] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[20:54] <Matt> IT_Sean: we're in the same TZ :)
[20:54] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-124-183-255-82.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:54] <Matt> I usually make a brew between 3 and 3:30
[20:55] <Matt> IT_Sean: ah, but it's hot and wet
[20:55] <Matt> which on a day like today is what really matters
[20:55] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-216-17-6.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:55] <IT_Sean> Indeed.
[20:56] <cperrin88> Hot and wet is rarely a bad thing
[20:56] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] * kvarley (~kevin@unaffiliated/kvarley) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <IT_Sean> As much as I want to go home & flick on the television, I am not looking forward to my evening commute in this weather.
[20:56] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> IT_Sean: have you considered sleeping under your desk?
[20:57] <IT_Sean> Too cold
[20:57] <cperrin88> IT_Sean: On the desk?
[20:57] <IT_Sean> Too cluttered.
[20:58] <cperrin88> Maybe someone elses desk?
[20:58] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] <IT_Sean> Eeew.
[20:58] <BenO> Phew! strace is in the hardfp repo!
[20:58] <IT_Sean> I cannot think of one person in my department who's desk I would want to sleep on
[20:58] <Matt> lol
[20:59] <BenO> Anyone having a go at porting the Open GL ES 2.0 book examples to the Pi?
[20:59] <Matt> IT_Sean: what's your method of transport?
[20:59] <IT_Sean> Car
[20:59] <Matt> so just drive in crappy weather?
[20:59] <Matt> find something good to listen to :)
[21:00] <Matt> IT_Sean: are you getting slammed with snow down there?
[21:00] <IT_Sean> It's mostly the traffic that irritates me.
[21:00] <IT_Sean> Snow?
[21:00] <IT_Sean> Noooo
[21:00] <Matt> clearly far enough south then :)
[21:00] <IT_Sean> Rain. Lots and lots of rain.
[21:00] <Matt> the poor folk in western NY (read Buffalo) are getting slammed today
[21:00] <cperrin88> I want to watch a bit star trek .. but my external HD is plugged out .. so I'd need to stand up to plug it in -_-
[21:00] <Matt> they're meant to get 30cm
[21:00] <IT_Sean> The traffic is the killer. It's only a 24 mile commute. But, it can take upwards of an hour.
[21:01] <Matt> IT_Sean: grab this week's theamphour - that'll make your drive a lot more pleasant :)
[21:01] * SpeedEvil passes IT_Sean a flying car.
[21:01] <IT_Sean> The rt46 rt3 interchange is killer. Idiots do not get. The concept of alternating merge.
[21:03] <mkopack> IT_Sean: welcome to my world. Took me 1.25 hours this morning thanks to needing to stop for gas and then 3 accidents blocking the roads on the way in
[21:04] <cperrin88> IT_Sean: ALTERNATING MERGE???? I AM THE MASTER OF THE STREET. I WON'T LET ANYONE IN!!!!!!!!
[21:04] <mkopack> At one point, on a 5 lane (per direction) interstate, we were stopped dead for 15 minutes. I actually put the car into park...
[21:04] <IT_Sean> Ick.
[21:04] * IT_Sean hates that sort of traffic.
[21:04] * IT_Sean drives a manual, as well.
[21:05] <mkopack> It's when those sorts of things happen that I yell out "Sombody BETTER be DEAD for this to be taking this long!"
[21:05] * Matt has to head downtown tomorrow
[21:05] <mkopack> Yeah, I USED to drive manual. After 14 years of dealing with it in stop and go Atlanta traffic, I'm back to automatic
[21:05] <Matt> I plan to take the train :)
[21:06] <Matt> although with the crappy rain/snow mix we're meant to have all night, who knows what that'll be like
[21:06] <IT_Sean> I hate automatics, except in really bad traffic.
[21:07] <cperrin88> Never had one
[21:07] * kvarley (~kevin@unaffiliated/kvarley) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[21:08] * Behold (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:08] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[21:08] <Matt> yeah, I would much rather drive a manual
[21:09] <Matt> except my wife can't drive one
[21:09] <Matt> and I'm not about to open the can of worms which is teaching your spouse to drive :)
[21:09] <Matt> so both our cars are automatics
[21:09] <Matt> I found that my annoyance of automatic gearboxes was lessened when I went away and read about how they work
[21:10] <Gadget-Mac> Anyone around interested in i2c ?
[21:10] <Matt> they'll change when you want them to, for the most part, if you know what causes them to change :)
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> Gadget-Mac: Sortof.
[21:10] <Matt> and alter your driving style appropriately
[21:11] <IT_Sean> I prefer to row my own.
[21:11] * shift__ (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:12] <SimonT> Gadget-Mac: lars_t_h <-- has been discussing I2C on the forums
[21:12] <SimonT> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/projects-and-collaboration-general/linux-device-drivers-for-rapberry-pi-on-board-io
[21:13] <lars_t_h> SimonT, yes I had :)
[21:13] <Gadget-Mac> SimonT: Indeed, one of the reasons for asking :)
[21:13] * ShiftPlusOne2 (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[21:13] <Gadget-Mac> lars_t_h: Great, happy to test once you've got something :)
[21:14] <lars_t_h> Gadget-Mac, like many other i'm waitng for my slice of pi
[21:14] <Gadget-Mac> lars_t_h: ?
[21:14] <lars_t_h> creating a driver for hardware is close to impossible
[21:14] <Gadget-Mac> Oh, actual pi board ?
[21:15] <SimonT> I'm interested in I2C & Java, once a driver exists and I get my hands on a Pi, I will attempt a Java JNI wrapper
[21:15] <Matt> now it's time for making some tea
[21:15] <lars_t_h> Gadget-Mac, my RPi is on RS Components queue
[21:15] <Gadget-Mac> Okies.
[21:16] <Gadget-Mac> lars_t_h: Can you do anything if you had remote access to one ?
[21:19] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:19] * stereohead is now known as stereohead-away
[21:19] <Matt> right, that's boiling water applied to a teabag
[21:20] <Matt> now to forget all about it and let it go cold
[21:20] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[21:20] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:21] <IT_Sean> Nothing worse than tea that's gone cold
[21:21] <cperrin88> What kind of equipment fits on the Camera and the Monitor port on the Pi
[21:21] <cperrin88> ?
[21:21] <Matt> IT_Sean: yes there is
[21:21] <Matt> tea that's gone cold with the teabag still in it
[21:21] <Matt> cause then it's cold stewed tea
[21:21] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] <Matt> rather than just being cold tea
[21:21] <IT_Sean> Yarf.
[21:21] <mkopack> Um, cameras and monitors?
[21:22] <lars_t_h> Gadget-Mac, not really, AFAIK, because I need to do kernel debugging
[21:22] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[21:22] <mkopack> Gadget-Mac: BTW, got my Slice of Pi board???. Haven't soldered it up yet though, since I haven't gotten my Pi yet
[21:22] <Gadget-Mac> lars_t_h: ok.
[21:23] <zleap> what is the slice of pi board again
[21:23] <zleap> expansion board
[21:23] <lars_t_h> mkopack, there is a add-on board called "Slice of Pi" for the Pi? Funny name :)
[21:23] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:24] <zleap> ok
[21:24] <mkopack> yeah, it is???
[21:24] <IT_Sean> Wassit do?
[21:24] <zleap> is that different to the gert board
[21:24] <mkopack> It's a breakout board + carrier for an XBee radio interface
[21:24] <mkopack> which is useful for robotics stuff
[21:24] <zleap> ohh
[21:24] <zleap> sounds good
[21:24] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:24] <mkopack> also gives access to some of the other pins as well (pass through)
[21:24] * johnLAPACHE (~lpche@juv34-1-82-225-182-193.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:28] * dfaler (~dfaler@12.131.0.2) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[21:30] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[21:30] <IT_Sean> Neat
[21:31] <Matt> see, look at that
[21:32] <Matt> I managed not to forget about my tea for once
[21:32] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:32] <IT_Sean> Heh
[21:33] <zgreg> Matt: what kind of tea are you drinking?
[21:35] <Matt> I am drinking this sort of tea: http://yfrog.com/mnximecj
[21:35] <Matt> http://www.thelondoncuppa.com/
[21:35] <Gadget-Mac> re-reading the forum, looks like there are several people looking at the hardware gpio stuff
[21:35] <Matt> !
[21:36] <Matt> hate hate hate
[21:36] <Matt> websites with auto-playing audio
[21:36] <sraue> http://openelec.tv/component/k2/item/241-openelec-meets-raspberry-pi-part-1 for all who wants to build OpenELEC for RaspberryPi
[21:36] * Matt grumbles
[21:36] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:36] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[21:36] * Behold is now known as BeholdMyGlory
[21:36] <Matt> but the tea's not bad :)
[21:38] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:42] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:43] * ukscone1 (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:44] <cperrin88> I'm currently trying to build True Crypt on the RPi
[21:44] <cperrin88> wondering if it works
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[21:49] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:49] * Kostic (~Kostic@net136-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:51] <haltdef> I can't think of a reason it wouldn't
[21:51] <haltdef> unless there's binary blobs involved, afaik truecrypt is 100% open source though?
[21:53] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:53] * Kostic (~Kostic@net136-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:53] <mjr> Well, truecrypt is... semi-open. I'm not sure it fulfills anyone's free software criterion, but at least it isn't gpl compatible, and thus can't be shipped with linux.
[21:53] <mjr> I wouldn't be surprised if it can be built for the pi, but wouldn't also be surprised if it had some x86 dependencies, being mostly used around there
[21:54] <mjr> for Linux, I'd recommend sticking to the native kernel-supported dm-crypt/luks
[21:54] <cperrin88> It builds so far
[21:55] <cperrin88> but there is a mention of assembler
[21:55] <cperrin88> and x86/64
[21:55] <sqrt[evil]> definitely for the bootloader at least
[21:56] <Hexxeh> i think it'll probably bring the pi to it's knees
[21:56] * cperrin88 is getting answers of the root of evil ....
[21:56] <Hexxeh> you don't have spare cycles to waste on encryption
[21:56] <cperrin88> -*from
[21:56] <mjr> http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?topic=1239.0 says somebody got it working on arm (with nokernelcrypto, at least)
[21:57] * chronofast (~George@173-167-154-172-illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:57] * mjr is btw also considering either sshfs or luks on pi, but lightish use
[21:58] <cperrin88> okay I'm getting an error
[21:58] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410mobile.student.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:58] <RITRedbeard> where?
[21:59] <cperrin88> SecurityToke.cpp
[21:59] <RITRedbeard> I hate to be one to ask of this: RPi obtainable in NA yet? catch up to demand?
[21:59] <RITRedbeard> whoa
[21:59] <RITRedbeard> don't drug and security
[21:59] <RITRedbeard> it will lead to bad sercurity
[22:00] <IT_Sean> Heh
[22:00] <mjr> Apropos the mentioned licensing, "The TrueCrypt License has not been officially approved by the Open Source Initiative and is not considered "free" by several major Linux distributions (Arch Linux,[39] Debian,[40] Ubuntu,[41] Fedora,[42] openSUSE,[43] Gentoo[44]), mainly because of distribution and copyright-liability reasons.[45]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueCrypt#Licensing
[22:01] * hetOrakel (~hetOrakel@D57DB6CA.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:01] <mjr> and again, even that aside, luks is just way better integrated into gnu/linux systems
[22:01] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:02] <zgreg> have you looked at the openssl benchmarks? encryption performs very poorly on the pi
[22:03] <DJWillis> zgreg: well any float heavy algo's are going to suck ;)
[22:03] <mjr> encryption isn't usually float heavy... ;]
[22:03] <RITRedbeard> doesn't it have jazelle?
[22:04] <RITRedbeard> or whatever?
[22:04] <sqrt[evil]> are there any float-heavy crypto algorithms
[22:04] <mjr> sqrt[evil], not sure, I'd doubt it
[22:04] * sqrt[evil] as well
[22:04] * chronofast (~George@173-167-154-172-illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:04] <SimonT> how come?
[22:04] <RITRedbeard> modular expotentiation
[22:05] <mjr> float computation isn't what you'd call exact, really
[22:05] <SimonT> bit integers for the most part
[22:05] <mjr> you tend to want to have exactness with encryption
[22:05] <RITRedbeard> 11 ^ 644 mod 73
[22:05] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) Quit ()
[22:05] <BenO> Has anyone been playing with the direct OpenGL ES libs?
[22:05] <sqrt[evil]> it's also slow
[22:05] * mjr looks at the openssl benchmark numbers and judges that they are sufficient for his potential light use
[22:05] <DJWillis> sqrt[evil]: no, not really but they also don't tend to be that fixed point friendly when built for ARM in my experance.
[22:06] <sqrt[evil]> well, this cpu doesn't even have simd
[22:07] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:07] * machine1 (machine1@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:08] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:10] <Hexxeh> DJWillis: did you get any further with chromium?
[22:11] <DJWillis> Hexxeh: sorry, no not really, got distracted with some work stuff then stuck into working out what can be done to give a little more head room when running a big apps.
[22:11] <Hexxeh> no worries
[22:12] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-216-17-6.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[22:15] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:19] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:22] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:22] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:23] <IT_Sean> O.o
[22:23] <BenO> ?
[22:25] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-216-17-6.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:25] <cperrin88> I went further with TrueCrypt
[22:25] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:25] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] * shift__ is now known as ShiftPlusOne
[22:28] * Lerc (~Lerc@121-74-232-197.telstraclear.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:28] <cperrin88> ShiftPlusOne: Right or left shift?
[22:29] * Milos (~Milos@2001:4428:27e:beef:41eb:fcbf:8b59:b0ba) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] * Milos (~Milos@2001:4428:27e:beef:41eb:fcbf:8b59:b0ba) Quit (Changing host)
[22:29] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:29] * SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:30] * mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:31] <ShiftPlusOne> cperrin88, either
[22:32] <RITRedbeard> also what about the chipset for AES?
[22:33] <RITRedbeard> onboard the ARM?
[22:33] <cperrin88> RITRedbeard: you mean the AES isntructions?
[22:33] <RITRedbeard> sure
[22:34] <mjr> I doubt Pi has one of them arms with AES extensions?
[22:34] <RITRedbeard> that part of the ISA is pepherial-like, no?
[22:34] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-175-149.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:34] <RITRedbeard> sure it comes bang whiz with a buncha registers
[22:34] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:34] * mike_ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:34] * mike__ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:35] * mike_ is now known as Guest49052
[22:35] <RITRedbeard> I've changed my mind about digital out/HDMI/VGA
[22:35] <RITRedbeard> I think it's a good idea the Pi has it.
[22:36] <DJWillis> RITRedbeard: the Pi does NOT have VGA
[22:36] <RITRedbeard> DVI
[22:36] <RITRedbeard> HDMS can be turned into DVI
[22:36] <RITRedbeard> my mistake
[22:36] <DJWillis> Yep, DVI but there is nothing analogue sat there ;)
[22:36] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:36] <RITRedbeard> righto
[22:37] <RITRedbeard> and exceptions with audio passthru and HDMI's nifty DRM features
[22:37] <RITRedbeard> which I don't think are applicable in HDMI's stack for Raspberry Pi, just driving digital display
[22:38] <RITRedbeard> LVDS/parallel/serial RGB is a pain
[22:38] <RITRedbeard> unless you happen to be a decent EE
[22:38] <DJWillis> RITRedbeard: no, the HDMI is full, not a just a video setup, there is audio on it in the proper sense.
[22:39] <RITRedbeard> yeah
[22:39] <RITRedbeard> but I mean just using it for digital is a good idea, I was wishing it had LVDS instead
[22:39] <RITRedbeard> but I'm changed my opinion
[22:39] <DJWillis> Hehe ;)
[22:39] <DJWillis> In the displayport camp?
[22:39] <RITRedbeard> no :|
[22:40] <RITRedbeard> only because nobody has the connectors, like at walmart or kmart
[22:40] <RITRedbeard> when you're in a bind
[22:40] <RITRedbeard> displayport is just as well
[22:40] <RITRedbeard> but I'm thinkning that making an HDMI -- Serial RGB board isn't very difficult
[22:42] <cperrin88> I just accedntly formated my primary windows drive with 1 TB :-O
[22:42] <IT_Sean> Oops
[22:42] <cperrin88> Big oops -_-
[22:42] <IT_Sean> Wait... You wiped out Windows?
[22:42] <cperrin88> Yep
[22:42] <BenO> dd?
[22:42] <IT_Sean> Niiiiiiice :D
[22:42] <cperrin88> gparted
[22:43] <RITRedbeard> dd
[22:43] <PiOfCube> quick format?
[22:43] <RITRedbeard> heh
[22:43] <cperrin88> I was on the wrong drive -_
[22:43] <cperrin88> -_-
[22:43] <PiOfCube> ah lol
[22:43] <BenO> Ah sorry to hear that :(
[22:43] <RITRedbeard> did you know dd comes from a System/360 tool?
[22:43] <RITRedbeard> I learned that while at IBM
[22:43] <cperrin88> At least I have backups of y home files
[22:43] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:43] * IT_Sean hands cperrin88 a Linux install cd
[22:44] <RITRedbeard> or under JCL
[22:44] <RITRedbeard> which I have not touched
[22:44] <RITRedbeard> (Job Control Language)
[22:44] * SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:44] <Matt> RITRedbeard: have you ever done anything in DCL? :)
[22:44] <cperrin88> IT_Sean: I'm under linux!
[22:44] <Matt> jumping platforms a bit :)
[22:45] <RITRedbeard> data control language?
[22:45] <RITRedbeard> or
[22:45] <RITRedbeard> DIGITAL Control Language?
[22:45] <Matt> DIGITAL Command Language, IIRC
[22:45] <DJWillis> Matt: DCL, even I can't face powering up that VAX mini ;)
[22:45] <RITRedbeard> ugh
[22:46] <RITRedbeard> this year we replaced our VAX emulator;
[22:46] * dfaler (~dfaler@dyn-24-49-44-189.myactv.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:46] <RITRedbeard> CS department handled class registration
[22:46] <RITRedbeard> lotta sofwatre so we emulated it on cluster, emulating the original vax
[22:46] <RITRedbeard> funny stuff to see your advisors plug into mainframe via term emulator at full screen
[22:46] <RITRedbeard> this year we swapped though
[22:47] <Matt> I left all my VAXen in the UK when I moved
[22:47] <Matt> I've got simh/vax stuff running tho
[22:48] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 360 seconds.)
[22:49] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@90-227-25-142-no68.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:50] * Kostic (~Kostic@net136-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:50] <RITRedbeard> VAX I hear horror stories about
[22:50] <RITRedbeard> but I think I looked at PowerPC ISA
[22:51] * Mavy is now known as Mavy-bnc
[22:51] <RITRedbeard> But VAX is Unix heritage, to a large degree, so... whatever
[22:51] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:51] <RITRedbeard> working at IBM on mainframe was fun
[22:51] * chronofast (~George@173-167-154-172-illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:51] <chronofast> New Article: http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/tutorials/how-to-set-up-raspberry-pi/
[22:52] <RITRedbeard> funny how personal computing is 2-3 decades behind industrial
[22:52] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:52] <RITRedbeard> the idea of hypervisor
[22:52] <RITRedbeard> etc
[22:52] <RITRedbeard> which is why I have faith in POSIX based oses, Wirth's Law (to a certain extent), and Raspberry Pi.
[22:53] <ShiftPlusOne> yay... got an invoice from element14
[22:53] <RITRedbeard> but ARM ain't RISC
[22:53] <RITRedbeard> but the power TDP makes it alright
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> RISC became largely irrelevant once RAM became slower than processors again
[22:54] * Compy (~Compy@128.192.112.158) Quit ()
[22:54] <Matt> SpeedEvil: nothing's likely to get as CISC as VAX was tho
[22:54] <RITRedbeard> I was going to write a philosophy of science paper on RISC being paradigm shift
[22:54] <RITRedbeard> PowerPC!
[22:54] * Guest49052 (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:54] * mike__ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:54] <RITRedbeard> :P
[22:55] <Matt> the damn thing had an asm instruction to calcuate a CRC
[22:55] <RITRedbeard> it had asm instruction in ISA to move three 32 bit strings
[22:55] <RITRedbeard> or something ridiculous
[22:55] * IT_Sean daily'd a PowerPC up until a month ago.
[22:55] <cperrin88> I'm to stupid to mount my USB stick on the Pi ... what options do I need?
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> mount
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> fstab
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> dmesg
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> uh
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> Matt: True.
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> pipe and grub?
[22:56] <cperrin88> I can mount it but I can't write
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> grep
[22:56] <RITRedbeard> does it have write lock on it physicaly?
[22:57] <IT_Sean> The raspi does not check for the write protect tab
[22:57] <RITRedbeard> I thought it was a function of the USB drive's circuitry
[22:57] <RITRedbeard> not the OS?
[22:58] * barr5790 (~alan@cpc35-belf9-2-0-cust731.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:58] * Guest32341 (~DooMMaste@2002:86a9:ac01:affe:5604:a6ff:fe85:a556) Quit (Changing host)
[22:58] * Guest32341 (~DooMMaste@unaffiliated/doommaster) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:59] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:59] <RITRedbeard> cperrin88, you're not stupid, man
[22:59] <IT_Sean> It is not
[22:59] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:59] <IT_Sean> The slot looks for the tab. Like the tab on floppies. The slot on the pi does not have the tab sensor
[22:59] <IT_Sean> And on that, I am off
[22:59] <Matt> have fun :)
[23:00] <RITRedbeard> linux/posix operating system have steep learning curve; rewarded with intense curiosity and tolerance/patience to not go medievil on its ass.
[23:00] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:00] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: IT_Sean)
[23:00] * TheOpenSourcerer (~alord@81-178-65-1.dsl.pipex.com) has left #raspberrypi
[23:00] <RITRedbeard> the fancy linux modern distro has some sort of daemon that handles PnP hardware in dmesg and mounts for you
[23:00] <RITRedbeard> try just doing 'mount'
[23:00] <RITRedbeard> as sanity check
[23:00] <cperrin88> I did
[23:01] <cperrin88> I mounted it
[23:01] <cperrin88> it's there
[23:01] <RITRedbeard> then dmesg | grep "storage"
[23:01] <RITRedbeard> cd /place/where/its/mounted?
[23:01] * Kostic (~Kostic@net136-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:01] <cperrin88> I am there
[23:01] <cperrin88> but I can't write on it
[23:01] <RITRedbeard> ls -l /rootmountpoint
[23:01] <RITRedbeard> chmod flags? :)
[23:02] <RITRedbeard> your default profile might do 0600
[23:02] <RITRedbeard> Was I right?
[23:02] <BenO> cperrin88, did you do something like: "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/foo"?
[23:02] <cperrin88> yeah
[23:03] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
[23:03] <BenO> what's the filesystem on the usb stick?
[23:03] <RITRedbeard> I thought mount and touch were affected by line in your .profile or .shell_profile/.shellrc ?
[23:03] <BenO> Just a vanilla one?
[23:03] <cperrin88> I think I found the error
[23:03] <cperrin88> writing works
[23:03] <RITRedbeard> did you chmod that?
[23:04] <cperrin88> I tried to untar
[23:04] <RITRedbeard> oh?
[23:04] <cperrin88> but tar tried to set the owner and that wasn't permitted
[23:04] <cperrin88> that was the problem
[23:04] <RITRedbeard> that would do it
[23:04] <BenO> cperrin88, ah so normal fat32 stick
[23:04] <RITRedbeard> did you just sudo chown?
[23:04] <cperrin88> beno: yep
[23:05] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[23:05] <RITRedbeard> SUDO CHOWN?
[23:06] <cperrin88> RITRedbeard: nope
[23:06] <RITRedbeard> WHAT DID YOU DO
[23:06] <cperrin88> I used the option --no-same-owner
[23:06] <RITRedbeard> tar zvf foo.tar.gz --no-same-owner?!?!?!
[23:06] <RITRedbeard> !?@?!@!?@
[23:06] <cperrin88> yep
[23:06] <RITRedbeard> Good.
[23:07] <RITRedbeard> >:|
[23:07] <BenO> You can't chown/chmod a fat32 partition
[23:07] <RITRedbeard> then we shall not use fat32 partitions.
[23:07] <RITRedbeard> They're a sleight against FHS and God.
[23:08] <RITRedbeard> Also, that is a useful tip, thanks cperrin88.
[23:08] <RITRedbeard> No doubt in the future I will be trying to do the same exact operation.
[23:08] * chronofast (~George@173-167-154-172-illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:10] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-64-117.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:11] <cjbaird> Fortunately for the children of today, umsdos has all but been eradicated from the earth..
[23:11] * bhaisahab (~bhaisahab@baagi.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:11] <BenO> It sleeps, waiting.
[23:12] * jardiamj (~jardiamj@c-67-170-113-60.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:13] <bhaisahab> Hi, I'm one of the accepted QtonPi developer, does anybody know how soon will they ship or we will recive, in my case I'll be moving to a new place so need to know
[23:13] <bhaisahab> thanks!
[23:15] <BenO> bhaisahab, Probably better to ping your contacts directly perhaps?
[23:15] <bhaisahab> hmm
[23:17] * phantoneD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:20] * Forca (~hendricks@209-254-225-82.ip.mcleodusa.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[23:20] * cperrin88 (~cperrin88@dslb-084-059-109-147.pools.arcor-ip.net) has left #raspberrypi
[23:22] * Klapo_ is now known as Klapo
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[23:39] * dfaler (~dfaler@dyn-24-49-44-189.myactv.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[23:41] * nrdb (~neil@CPE-121-216-17-6.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:43] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@unaffiliated/hopsy) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:49] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@rrcs-97-77-70-128.sw.biz.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Shutting down, yo.)
[23:50] * RITRedbeard (~RITReadbe@t410mobile.student.rit.edu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:51] * RITRedbeard (RITReadbea@t410mobile.student.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] * chr1s70ph (~christoph@p5DE86E11.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] * nrdb (~neil@101.161.142.29) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] * RITRedbeard (RITReadbea@t410mobile.student.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:58] * s[x] (~sx]@ppp59-167-154-113.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.