#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-05-09

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <gamegeek> how good is it?
[0:00] <Greg117> gartenzwerg: thanks, I'll check it out
[0:00] <cornet> gamegeek: define "good" ?
[0:00] <Greg117> I've since switched to OpenELEC to test out the media pc stuff.. works great (when not frozen). Probably move back to Debian
[0:00] <Greg117> Hoping it's just OpenELEC's issue
[0:01] <gamegeek> i come from cryengine 3 software and i worked alot with blender 3D, can it handle hi 3D stuff
[0:01] <gartenzwerg> tanepiper: you can use the sys interface, e.g. from the shell: http://pastebin.com/e5XdcuJk
[0:02] <cornet> gamegeek: it's not gonna cut it for blender and 3d work
[0:02] <gartenzwerg> tanepiper: I was just testing it, this is the pin mapping: http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals but a bit confusing, "GPIO 0" on the pin header is really "GPIO17" in Linux, and GPIO0 in Linux is SDA0 on the pin header
[0:02] <gamegeek> dam realy no 3D?
[0:03] * jgarrett (~jgarrett@216.30.179.54) Quit (Quit: jgarrett)
[0:04] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:04] <gartenzwerg> gamegeek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_mDuJuvZjI
[0:04] <tanepiper> gartenzwerg: i really need to find a hardware hacker round here then :) my initial intention was to make it a XMBC center, but then i got an AppleTV and it's fine for my needs - so i'd like to actually start learning to play with it on the low level/hardware side :)
[0:05] <gartenzwerg> there are some harware hackers here, like me :-)
[0:05] <tanepiper> but good to know i can use the sys interface for some stuff, i can just do some child_process.exec calls then :)
[0:06] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:06] * eyveer (~eyveer@ip-37-85.zax.pl) Quit ()
[0:06] <gamegeek> only 15 fps not so good, also is there any other shapes of the divice?
[0:07] <tanepiper> and use socketio for controlling it via the browser
[0:08] <gartenzwerg> easier to write just to the files, you can do fopen, fwrite etc. with it, or whatever your language provides for file access
[0:08] * xlq (~ekselkiu@89-168-178-206.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:08] * mhcerri (~Marcelo@143.106.196.110) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:09] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:09] <tanepiper> yea, nodes fs stuff is pretty easy to use http://nodejs.org/api/fs.html
[0:09] <cornet> so the ribbon cable headers are they GPIO and JTAG ?
[0:10] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[0:11] * jaakkos (~jvsalo@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] <jaakkos> so, did people get sound working (from 3,5mm or hdmi?) with debian6-19-04-2012.zip ?
[0:11] <gartenzwerg> there are two soldered pin headers: a two row pin header, described at http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals and a one row pin header for jtag
[0:12] <gamegeek> what can u do with those pins anyway?
[0:12] <jaakkos> btw eduke32 runs fine 800x600 ;)
[0:12] <jaakkos> (duke nukem 3d)
[0:13] <IT_Sean> gamegeek, the GPIO pins can be used to interface with other hardware. Sensors, motor controllers, etc...
[0:13] <gamegeek> arduino?
[0:13] <gamegeek> like an arduino i mean
[0:13] <IT_Sean> Something like that, i suppose.
[0:14] <gartenzwerg> jaakkos: worked for me, after I've updated to the latest firmware https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-update/ and then installed ALSA and the driver, and selected the 3.5mm output http://pastebin.com/MutHBav0
[0:14] * mhcerri (~Marcelo@143.106.196.110) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
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[0:15] <gamegeek> so more about that grapics chip on what level of prosesing wood u set it, is it as paverful as the ipad proscesor?
[0:15] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:16] * mhcerri (~Marcelo@143.106.196.110) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:16] * mhcerri (~Marcelo@143.106.196.110) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:17] * magn3ts (u214@pdpc/supporter/professional/magn3ts) Quit (Excess Flood)
[0:18] * magn3ts (u214@pdpc/supporter/professional/magn3ts) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:19] <jaakkos> gartenzwerg: interesting. thanks
[0:19] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:19] <jaakkos> has anyone else got corrupted sd cards?
[0:19] * mike__ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:20] <jaakkos> i have 2 different cards and i've managed to corrupt the rootfs partition on both once
[0:20] <jaakkos> the first one may have been because of insufficient power
[0:20] <gartenzwerg> gamegeek: no, the Apple A5X for the iPad 3 is a dual core CPU with a quad core GPU, so I guess it is at least 2-3 times faster, the RPi is a single core CPU and one GPU
[0:21] <cornet> gartenzwerg: cheers :)
[0:21] <gamegeek> is there anyone working on games (new ip) for it?
[0:21] <gamegeek> mm
[0:22] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:22] <gamegeek> and are u guys using it as ur home computer?
[0:22] <gartenzwerg> yes, for playing C64 games :-)
[0:23] <jaakkos> i tried raptor: call of the shadows in dosbox, it was a bit too slow but almost playable with frameskip=1. perhaps there is some dosbox tuning that would help enough.
[0:23] <jaakkos> anyway i'm really happy that duke nukem 3d works fine :)
[0:23] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:23] <jaakkos> i'm looking to port the gl version to gles so it would also run
[0:24] <gamegeek> so there no games on this platform that are actualy disigned around the divice?
[0:24] <jaakkos> i'm sure there will be
[0:25] <jaakkos> you can't expect too many since only a handful of people actually have the device.
[0:25] <gamegeek> hell yes wen i get it im making this part of my game product line
[0:25] <jaakkos> there are many developers who are looking to port their programs and libraries when they get hold of the device.
[0:25] <gamegeek> where can i get it
[0:26] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:26] <jaakkos> the board?
[0:27] <gartenzwerg> I bought mine from eBay, was lucky and got it for 92 EUR, looks like current auction prices are insane
[0:27] <jaakkos> gartenzwerg: which kernel are you running btw
[0:28] <plugwash> if you want a Pi you have two options, join the long queues at Farnell and/or RS or pay a large premium on ebay
[0:28] <gartenzwerg> the latest from github, self compiled some minutes ago
[0:28] <jaakkos> gartenzwerg: ok, do you remember if audio worked with stock image kernel after hexxeh updater?
[0:28] <gartenzwerg> yes, it does
[0:29] <jaakkos> did you use aplay
[0:29] <gartenzwerg> at least sometimes, mplayer stops after some seconds, the C64 VICE emulator worked without problems
[0:30] <gartenzwerg> I think there are still some ALSA bugs
[0:30] <jaakkos> i get some fast, white noise crackling sound that lasts for a split second...
[0:30] * gamegeek_ (6d83add2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.131.173.210) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:30] <jaakkos> when i try to play a wav with aplay :)
[0:30] <gamegeek_> what about new models? wen do u guys expect revisions
[0:32] * Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:32] * gamegeek (6d83add2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.131.173.210) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:33] <jaakkos> gartenzwerg: wow, mplayer actually work
[0:33] <jaakkos> s
[0:36] <jaakkos> awesome, midi works in duke nukem :D
[0:37] * CptnKrunch (~CptnKrunc@CPE204e7f5b079c-CM602ad092af63.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] <CptnKrunch> Just got my Pi in the mail!
[0:39] * koda (~vittorio@host129-223-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: koda)
[0:39] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:40] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * gamegeek (~gamegeek@109.131.173.210) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:43] * zigger1_2000 (~zigger1_2@cpc3-stkp8-2-0-cust196.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[0:43] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@rrcs-97-77-70-128.sw.biz.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Shutting down, yo.)
[0:44] <gamegeek> sorry disconect, how long dous it take for a raspberry pi to be shipt
[0:46] <gamegeek> ?
[0:46] <hotwings> no solid answer to that
[0:46] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:46] <gamegeek> months years?
[0:47] <CptnKrunch> I got mine today if it's any help
[0:47] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
[0:47] <gamegeek> wen did u order?
[0:47] <hotwings> unclear although you can bet its at least 6 weeks at this point
[0:47] <gamegeek> oke where do i order
[0:47] <hotwings> i ordered march 1 and march 3. my first order is supposed to be here by the end of june
[0:48] <CptnKrunch> I ordered February 29th
[0:48] <plugwash> you go to farnell and/or rs (i'd do both) and register for interest, then wait for them to invite you to order
[0:48] <CptnKrunch> 2 hours after the horrible launch
[0:49] <hotwings> depends where you live.. for euroes, farnell/rs, for na, element14 is another choice
[0:49] <gamegeek> whats rs
[0:49] <hotwings> CptnKrunch - im not sure what happened can even be called a launch
[0:49] <hotwings> rs = euro electronics supplier
[0:49] <CptnKrunch> hotwings, true story
[0:50] <hotwings> CptnKrunch - the whole thing blew up before it ever got off the ground? ;\
[0:50] <CptnKrunch> Basically
[0:50] <gamegeek> realy
[0:50] <gamegeek> why
[0:50] <CptnKrunch> I had to purchase mine from Farnel International
[0:51] <CptnKrunch> I couldn't find a north american company that sold/shipped it at the time
[0:51] <CptnKrunch> (don't think there was one)
[0:51] * finnx (~sheppards@99-39-251-198.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:51] <hotwings> gamegeek - everyone on the launch side was completely unprepared
[0:52] <Ben64> CptnKrunch: there was
[0:52] <CptnKrunch> BeholdMyGlory, it wasn't mentioned anywhere
[0:53] <hotwings> indeed.. it was discovered by accident more than anything at the time
[0:53] <Ben64> their websites suck pretty bad
[0:53] <CptnKrunch> Somehow I got through and ordered one though
[0:53] <Ben64> but its newark.com for usa
[0:53] <CptnKrunch> I'm happy ^^
[0:54] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:54] * Caterpillar (~Caterpill@unaffiliated/caterpillar) Quit ()
[0:55] <gamegeek> i cant find the other suplieres website
[0:55] <hotwings> seems like i recall seeing links on raspberrypi.org last time i was there
[0:56] * mrcan_ (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:57] <gartenzwerg> gamegeek: http://elinux.org/RPi_Buying_Links_By_Country
[0:57] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:58] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:58] <gamegeek> do they suport paypal?
[0:58] <gartenzwerg> Farnell doesn't, usually credit card
[0:59] <gamegeek> damiut
[0:59] <plugwash> IIRC RS are taking paypal for Pi orders farnell aren't
[0:59] <gamegeek> that sucks
[0:59] <plugwash> but afaict RS are more backordered than farnell
[0:59] <hotwings> i think with paypal you can add funds and they create a temporary credit card number with it
[0:59] <hotwings> someone was telling me they do that now (like some banks do)
[1:00] * mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:00] <gamegeek> wel looks like i have to lend someones credit card "MOM give me ur card"
[1:01] <hotwings> are you a kid that wants to use an rpi to learn to program by chance?
[1:01] * mhcerri (~Marcelo@143.106.196.110) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[1:01] * mhcerri (~Marcelo@143.106.196.110) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] <plugwash> too young to get a credit card yourself?
[1:02] <gamegeek> hey man im 19 years old
[1:02] <gamegeek> no i dont want to get in depth
[1:02] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-124-184-93-111.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] <plugwash> gamegeek, what country are you in?
[1:02] <gamegeek> and paypal is the futeure
[1:02] <gamegeek> belgium
[1:02] <hotwings> i didnt mean anything by my question. it was actually serious. thought maybe we had our first user here who planned on using the thing as its "intended" lol
[1:03] <dmsuse> paypal will not give you cred card numbers
[1:03] <dmsuse> and paypal is a heap of bleep
[1:03] <gamegeek> lol no i just want to comercilise it, as to home homemade console
[1:04] <gamegeek> paypal is secure and fast for online transactions
[1:04] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:04] <gamegeek> sorry for my bad english
[1:04] <dmsuse> sure when they are not trying to steal money from you
[1:04] <gamegeek> says the guy holding a viza card?
[1:04] * alex_k (~alex_k@host-78-145-73-221.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[1:04] <hotwings> i dont see why some people wet their fruit-of-the-looms over how others intend to use their rpi. the foundation doesnt care, so why do "you"
[1:05] <dmsuse> you don't need a credit card, use a debit card
[1:05] <hotwings> paypal has never stolen money from fee or anyone else i know with a paypal account
[1:05] <gamegeek> i have a debit but it hey belgium, debid isnt mastercard
[1:06] <dmsuse> why would you need a mastercard?
[1:06] <gamegeek> online transactions
[1:06] <carldani> why would you want a credit card?
[1:06] <gamegeek> debit cards dont alow that for webshops
[1:06] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:06] <gamegeek> "in belgium atleast"
[1:07] <gamegeek> so i need to transver to paypal and then pay most of the time
[1:07] <dmsuse> paypal will rape you
[1:07] <hotwings> credit cards arent evil.. theyre a good tool to help you manage your credit score.. if youre irresponsible, its not the card issuers fault
[1:07] <dmsuse> just get a debit card
[1:07] * hamitron finds all 3 methods "fine"
[1:08] <hotwings> paypal has been just fine for everyone i know who uses it. ive never heard of this supposed paypal rape
[1:08] <gamegeek> yea but iv seen many people fuck up with credit cards
[1:08] <hotwings> debit cards are only good at POS and unusable for online purchases
[1:09] <IT_Sean> gamegeek, language, please.
[1:09] <gamegeek> sorry
[1:09] <IT_Sean> s'okay.
[1:09] <carldani> hotwings: Why would a credit card help manging a credit score?
[1:09] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The real world is just a crappy game... The ideal world can only be found within a game. Such was my believe. But if an ideal can be found within a crappy game, there may be an ideal route in the real world... for me to discover)
[1:09] <gamegeek> sarcasm
[1:09] <fabrice1> hotwings: the full concept of credit score is unheard of in many countries
[1:10] * amelia_ (~amelia@host-92-23-159-162.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:10] <dmsuse> gamegeek: just go to your banks and find one that offers a visa debit card, it will work as a credit card :P
[1:10] <gamegeek> anyway guys enugh payment methods
[1:10] <hotwings> carldani - your credit score is calculated using various factors, credit cards impacting (for good or bad) some of them
[1:11] <hotwings> fabrice1 - i dont see why. credit scores in one form or another have existed since humans began trading with each other
[1:11] <hotwings> its a pretty simple concept
[1:11] <gamegeek> so u guys might know what are the pins in the middle of the divice?
[1:11] <carldani> Actually, pure ownership of a credit card impacting any credit score is illegal in Germany.
[1:11] <dmsuse> any form of credit is a form of slavery
[1:12] <hotwings> gamegeek - those can be used as a backscratcher
[1:12] <IT_Sean> gamegeek, the GPIO, or the I2C?
[1:12] <gamegeek> 1 sec
[1:12] <hotwings> dmsuse - congrats on winning Most Absurd Comment of the Day just now!
[1:12] <amelia_> :D
[1:13] <IT_Sean> The GPIO pins allow you to interface with external hardware. Sensors, motor controllers, etc..., gamegeek
[1:13] <gamegeek> http://imgur.com/POYGY
[1:13] <IT_Sean> Oh..., those
[1:13] * DrHorrible_KingO (~GeorgeWBu@host86-137-52-18.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:13] <gamegeek> yea those
[1:14] <IT_Sean> At this time, i'm not sure how accessable those are. Guys? want to chime in here?
[1:14] <dmsuse> hotwings: hey, not worse than your paypal credit card comment :P
[1:14] <plugwash> those are the DSI and CSI connectors, the idea is they are to be used for connecting cameras and displays but they are controlled by the GPU (though there are a few lines on the CSI connector that can be used from the arm) and so only broadcom can provide the code to make them work
[1:15] <plugwash> and they have not done so at this stage
[1:15] <carldani> New TV series: CSI - Raspi
[1:15] <hotwings> lol
[1:15] <amelia_> :D
[1:15] <gamegeek> ow i see
[1:16] <gamegeek> so instead of using the hdmi u can also use a derect diplay on it
[1:16] <gamegeek> and a camera
[1:16] <IT_Sean> Not right now, no.
[1:16] <gamegeek> sooo that means skype?
[1:16] <jaakkos> gartenzwerg: actually the sound seems to work out of box - except aplay - with debian6-19-04-2012.zip. the new firmware created a regression for me, sdl/fbcon didn't work any more. rolled back, now duke nukem runs with graphics and music very smooth ;)
[1:16] <IT_Sean> As Broadcom has not released the code yet.
[1:16] * zag (~zag@xbmc/staff/zag) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:17] <IT_Sean> If you want a display, you can attach one via HDMI, or composite.
[1:17] <gamegeek> so about tose pins again i just buygt my arduino and i dont realy get the idear on those things
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[1:18] <IT_Sean> which pins? The ones you highlighted, or the GPIO?
[1:18] <gamegeek> gpoi watever
[1:18] <Da|Mummy> well well, look who made top of imgur http://imgur.com/gallery/XBlwp
[1:19] <gartenzwerg> gamegeek: looks like an old board, my board has the jtag pins populated with pin headers, and the two red circled connectors looks different on my board, like this: http://photos.itpro.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_IT_Pro/dir_232/it_photo_116482_42.jpg
[1:19] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:19] <IT_Sean> the GPIO pins allow you to attach motor controllers, servos, sensors, etc... for interacting w/ the outside world.
[1:19] <carldani> by the way, does anyone know if MPEG2 can be converted easily (i.e. with almost zero effort) to MPEG4 if I don't care at all about file size?
[1:19] <gamegeek> btw wodent u just make it like a synclare spectrum
[1:20] <gamegeek> keybord as case?
[1:20] <IT_Sean> you could do that, if you wanted to.
[1:20] <IT_Sean> actually, not a bad idea.
[1:20] <mervaka> oo yeah
[1:20] * amelia_ (~amelia@host-92-23-159-162.as13285.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:21] * P4R4N01D1 is now known as P4R4N01D
[1:21] <gartenzwerg> jaakkos: nice
[1:21] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189-83-143-15.user.veloxzone.com.br) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[1:21] * P4R4N01D (~johndoe@189-83-143-15.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:21] <gamegeek> but u got to look for very tiny keybeord so it just fits
[1:21] <IT_Sean> O_o
[1:21] <IT_Sean> the raspi is tiny. a raspi-sized keyboard would be unusable.
[1:22] <gamegeek> oke then u en up wit a biger keybord and a tiny computer inside, so what wood u do wit the extra room
[1:22] <IT_Sean> harddrive?
[1:23] <gamegeek> a yes and a transormer
[1:24] <gamegeek> maybe a batery pack
[1:25] <gamegeek> but now i think of it since everything is like on every side of the divice can u dimount parts or somthing to rearange them for inside the case?
[1:25] <IT_Sean> you could use extension leads to move them to the rear of your case, i suppose.
[1:26] <gamegeek> what about the sd reader?
[1:26] <IT_Sean> you will rarely need to access that.
[1:26] <IT_Sean> remember, that's what you boot from
[1:26] <gamegeek> oke
[1:28] <gamegeek> btw can this thing overheat? in a case wood u need a fan?
[1:28] <IT_Sean> it's designed to run at or near room temperature.
[1:28] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:28] <IT_Sean> It should not require active cooling
[1:28] <gamegeek> oke
[1:29] <gamegeek> are there any shield for it yet
[1:30] * iccanobif (iccanobif@87.13.94.32) Quit ()
[1:30] <IT_Sean> expansion board? Not yet. the gertboard is coming soon, however.
[1:30] <CptnKrunch> Is there any way I can hack a power cable out of a mini-USB cable?
[1:30] <IT_Sean> you need a transformer, CptnKrunch. i.e. a wallwart.
[1:31] <IT_Sean> 5v, 500ma minimum.
[1:31] <IT_Sean> probably easiest to just buy one.
[1:31] <CptnKrunch> Bah
[1:31] <gamegeek> yea there cheap and if u have an old iphone u have one
[1:31] <CptnKrunch> Including a power cable would be nice :\
[1:32] <CptnKrunch> Or at least the usb cord
[1:32] <gamegeek> its beord only like the arduino
[1:32] <IT_Sean> most people have mobile phone chargers already, hense the decision to not include them, as it would increase the price.
[1:32] <IT_Sean> gamegeek, the gertboard just breaks out the GPIO pins, as far as i know.
[1:32] <gamegeek> oke
[1:33] * mhcerri (~Marcelo@143.106.196.110) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:33] <gamegeek> basicly they need a display and camera batery pack shield and u have an on the go micro computer
[1:34] * SpeedEvil looks at his phone.
[1:35] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:35] * IT_Sean looks at SpeedEvil's phone as well.
[1:35] <gamegeek> just an idea
[1:36] <IT_Sean> The Foundation isn't trying to make an 'on the go mobile computer'. Not to say you couldn't make one yourself, though.
[1:36] <gamegeek> oke final question from me
[1:36] <gamegeek> os interface
[1:36] <IT_Sean> Linux.
[1:37] <IT_Sean> There are several flavours available.
[1:37] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[1:37] <gamegeek> is there like a sit in the couch watch movies os
[1:37] <IT_Sean> XBMC
[1:37] <SpeedEvil> gamegeek: tivos
[1:37] <IT_Sean> dunno if it's released yet, i haven't been following it though.
[1:38] <gamegeek> oke great i think i can kick that ps3 out then :D
[1:38] <gartenzwerg> IT_Sean: the gertboard does more than just break out the GPIO pins, e.g. it has powerful motor drivers and analog input: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/868
[1:38] <IT_Sean> Has it?
[1:38] <IT_Sean> Good to know. thanks :)
[1:39] <IT_Sean> I haven't been really followng gertboard devlopment.
[1:39] * gamegeek (~gamegeek@109.131.173.210) Quit ()
[1:39] * IT_Sean gets the feeling that gamegeek is overestimating the raspi's capabilities
[1:40] <CptnKrunch> Raspi will definitely run Crysis
[1:41] <CptnKrunch> ;)
[1:41] <gartenzwerg> yeah, and you CAN run Linux on an 8 bit AVR microcontroller, if you have some time :-) http://dangerousprototypes.com/2012/03/29/running-linux-on-a-8bit-avr/
[1:42] * gamegeek_ (6d83add2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.131.173.210) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[1:43] <Greg117> anyone have OpenELEC running stable?
[1:43] <Greg117> the longest session I had was an hour and that was without my external drive
[1:44] <plugwash> gartenzwerg, well yeah with external memory and an arm emulator....
[1:44] <plugwash> you can run linux very slowly
[1:46] <CptnKrunch> Are there any linux distros that have gpu acceleration for the os enabled?
[1:48] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:54] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56bc.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[2:01] * IT_iPod (~Ult_Ubunt@pool-74-105-34-125.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:02] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-124-184-93-111.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[2:02] * IT_iPod (~Ult_Ubunt@pool-74-105-34-125.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:03] * mrcan_ (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[2:04] * IT_iPod (~Ult_Ubunt@pool-74-105-34-125.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:04] <des2> Crysin on Pi ? Seconds/frame not frames/second.
[2:05] * Syliss (~Syliss@108.75.46.15) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] * IT_iPod (~Ult_Ubunt@pool-74-105-34-125.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] * IT_iPod (~Ult_Ubunt@pool-74-105-34-125.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Changing host)
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[2:06] * _av500_ (~av500@lgf.archos.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[2:07] * Syliss_ (~Syliss@adsl-64-169-154-39.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:08] * IT_iPod (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[2:11] * Syliss_ (~Syliss@adsl-64-169-154-39.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[2:14] * zag (~zag@xbmc/staff/zag) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:15] * unknownbliss is now known as UKB|Sleep
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[2:15] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
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[2:25] <techman2> morning all
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[2:38] * phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-94-78.netcologne.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:01] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[3:06] <ukscone> hmmmm is DAS modelling clay conductive?
[3:06] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:06] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't think so
[3:07] <tntexplosivesltd> might pay totest it with a multileter =P
[3:07] <tntexplosivesltd> wait, wet or dry?
[3:07] <tntexplosivesltd> * multimeter
[3:09] <ukscone> well wet to start with but'll be dry -- need a base for the raspi for my raspi case
[3:09] * D34TH (D34TH@unaffiliated/d34th) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:09] <tntexplosivesltd> I see
[3:09] <ukscone> yup guess i'll have to just test it
[3:09] <tntexplosivesltd> maybe use some adhesive foam strips?
[3:09] <ukscone> want to use das to bury the cables and wires in
[3:10] <tntexplosivesltd> ah
[3:10] <ukscone> i'm using a 2" deep picture frame and bring the conectors out to the bottom of the frame
[3:10] <tntexplosivesltd> nice
[3:11] <ukscone> not sure what to do about hdmo/composite yet, might bring hdmi to the frame edge but not compo or vice versa
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[3:18] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-64-169-154-39.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
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[3:29] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1000:a::b2f) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:30] * CptnKrunch_ (ad207b75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.32.123.117) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:30] <CptnKrunch_> I've installed an OS on the sd card and hooked up the pi to an lcd monitor via hdmi but it's not displaying anything
[3:32] <oldtopman> CptnKrunch_: Did you install th OS properly?
[3:33] <CptnKrunch_> oldtopman I used win32diskimager
[3:33] <CptnKrunch_> I tried both the fedora remix (which comes with its own application) and debian squeeze
[3:33] <oldtopman> Did the image checksums match?
[3:33] <CptnKrunch_> Not sure how to do that
[3:34] * phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-94-78.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:35] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:40] * fabrice1 (~fabrice@nat/mozilla/x-sehejmultxdjsgab) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[4:00] <tntexplosivesltd> CptnKrunch_: there shouls be a few tutorials on the onternet
[4:00] <tntexplosivesltd> * internet
[4:00] <tntexplosivesltd> will probably be annoying with windows though =/
[4:00] <CptnKrunch_> I've read them
[4:00] <CptnKrunch_> Turns out that some class 10 sd cards are not supported
[4:00] <CptnKrunch_> Trying a slower one now
[4:00] <tntexplosivesltd> ah cool
[4:00] * fabrice1 (~fabrice@66.80.220.195) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:00] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, class 10 isn't that great for an OS anyway
[4:01] <CptnKrunch_> Why not?
[4:01] <tntexplosivesltd> slow random access speed
[4:01] <CptnKrunch_> It's faster
[4:01] <CptnKrunch_> Ah
[4:01] <tntexplosivesltd> it's faster when reading sequentially
[4:01] * Xark_ (~chatzilla@cpe-50-113-123-229.san.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:01] * Syliss (~Syliss@108.210.165.132) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:01] <CptnKrunch_> Why would that go down as other speeds go up?
[4:01] <tntexplosivesltd> that's the misunderstanding everyone seems to have, "Class 10 is faster"
[4:02] <tntexplosivesltd> I don't know, just the way it's arranged
[4:02] <CptnKrunch_> Well this one worked
[4:02] <CptnKrunch_> Heh
[4:02] <tntexplosivesltd> awesome
[4:03] <tntexplosivesltd> yeah, I'm personally keeping away from class 10
[4:03] <tntexplosivesltd> only good for large movies really
[4:03] <tntexplosivesltd> when you're writing/reading large amounts of sequential data
[4:03] <tntexplosivesltd> then they're fast
[4:03] <tntexplosivesltd> CptnKrunch_: what distro did you end up getting?
[4:04] <CptnKrunch_> debian squeeze
[4:04] <tntexplosivesltd> nice
[4:04] <CptnKrunch_> though I'll probably be trying fedora remix as well since my school helps develop it
[4:05] <tntexplosivesltd> =/ apparently it's pretty bad atm
[4:05] <tntexplosivesltd> no reflection on your school
[4:05] <CptnKrunch_> pretty bad in what sense?
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[4:06] <tntexplosivesltd> can't remember
[4:06] <tntexplosivesltd> it was mentioned a few times last week
[4:06] <CptnKrunch_> it runs slowly because there's no graphics acceleration
[4:06] <CptnKrunch_> but it seemed alright when I saw the demo
[4:07] <tntexplosivesltd> afk
[4:07] * wkl (~Conan@61.135.152.207) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:10] <MBS> yeah need to hear some reviews about different sd cards, lol
[4:10] * oberling (~oberling@brln-4d0c0c77.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:10] <MBS> though will probably be a good while before mine comes in anyway
[4:10] <MBS> could always just get a cheap ssd and connect via usb though i guess
[4:10] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:11] <dmsuse> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8smvPmOq1v8
[4:11] <dmsuse> awesome! :D
[4:12] * danfoshizzle (danfoshizz@02db2b29.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:13] <CptnKrunch_> looks like it's struggling with my g15 keyboard
[4:13] * oberling_ (~oberling@brln-4db9f3cf.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[4:15] <tntexplosivesltd> back
[4:19] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[4:20] <danfoshizzle> hello everyone
[4:21] <tntexplosivesltd> hello
[4:21] <tntexplosivesltd> CptnKrunch_: good to hear that it works =)
[4:21] <CptnKrunch_> so my logitech g15 works as long as the backlight is off
[4:21] <CptnKrunch_> could it be too much power draw
[4:21] <CptnKrunch_> ?
[4:22] <tntexplosivesltd> probably
[4:22] <tntexplosivesltd> can't imagine logitech doing anything right
[4:22] <CptnKrunch_> if i plug in a mouse everything stops working
[4:22] <tntexplosivesltd> o.O
[4:22] <CptnKrunch_> but if i remove the keyboard the mosue works fine
[4:22] <tntexplosivesltd> what power supply are you using?
[4:22] <tntexplosivesltd> what's its current rating?
[4:22] <CptnKrunch_> I'm usng the apple
[4:22] <CptnKrunch_> plug
[4:23] <tntexplosivesltd> what's the current output?
[4:24] <CptnKrunch_> uh
[4:24] <CptnKrunch_> i think 1a
[4:24] <CptnKrunch_> 5v
[4:24] <CptnKrunch_> i might need a powered usb hub
[4:25] <tntexplosivesltd> hmmmm
[4:25] <tntexplosivesltd> I can't see a kb and mouse drawing that much
[4:26] <tntexplosivesltd> do you have any proper peripherals?
[4:26] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-170.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:26] <CptnKrunch_> what do you mean by proper
[4:27] <tntexplosivesltd> non-ricer =P
[4:27] <CptnKrunch_> again you'll have to elaborate :P
[4:27] <tntexplosivesltd> but really I mean basic, no lights or flashy things
[4:27] <tntexplosivesltd> just a masic kb and mouse
[4:27] <tntexplosivesltd> basic
[4:28] <CptnKrunch_> oh
[4:28] <CptnKrunch_> no
[4:28] <CptnKrunch_> lol
[4:28] <CptnKrunch_> g15 keyboard, g7 mouse, and a tact x mouse
[4:28] <tntexplosivesltd> ???_???
[4:28] <CptnKrunch_> I have a blue tooth keyboard but that might be even worse
[4:28] <tntexplosivesltd> that's a shame
[4:29] <tntexplosivesltd> lol
[4:29] * prebz_ (~prebz@c83-248-137-170.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[4:29] <CptnKrunch_> i know
[4:29] <tntexplosivesltd> maybe the lights are in fact drawing too much current
[4:29] <CptnKrunch_> that would be hilarious
[4:30] <tntexplosivesltd> which is kinda annoying, but typical of logitech =P
[4:30] <CptnKrunch_> how many people ever run into the problem of a mosue drawing too much current?
[4:31] <tntexplosivesltd> never heard about it
[4:31] <tntexplosivesltd> does the mouse work fine on its own
[4:31] <CptnKrunch_> yep
[4:31] <tntexplosivesltd> hmm
[4:32] <CptnKrunch_> this is just grand
[4:32] <tntexplosivesltd> ultimate test would be a USB hub =P
[4:32] <tntexplosivesltd> or maybe a different PSU
[4:32] <CptnKrunch_> If I had one
[4:33] <CptnKrunch_> I have a blackberry plug as ewll
[4:33] <CptnKrunch_> its rated at 750ma though
[4:33] <tntexplosivesltd> well, go out and buy a proper mouse and kb for $5
[4:33] <tntexplosivesltd> they're always useful to have
[4:34] <CptnKrunch_> I suppose
[4:34] <CptnKrunch_> Can't play quake 3 until I do :(
[4:35] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:35] <tntexplosivesltd> =(
[4:36] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: kcj)
[4:37] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[4:44] * CptnKrunch (~CptnKrunc@CPE204e7f5b079c-CM602ad092af63.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:46] * Arc_ (~Arc@cpe-173-175-206-85.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:46] * a5m0 (~Arc@unaffiliated/a5m0) Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[4:54] * kcj (~casey@203-173-217-56.dialup.ihug.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:01] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[5:05] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[5:05] * jamesglanville (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[5:06] * finnx (~sheppards@99-39-251-198.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[5:11] * danfoshizzle (danfoshizz@02db2b29.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[5:11] * Orb (~orb_@c-98-220-131-179.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[5:13] * danfoshizzle (danfoshizz@02db2b29.bb.sky.com) Quit (Client Quit)
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[5:15] * s[x] (~sx]@eth589.qld.adsl.internode.on.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:18] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-75-47-45.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
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[5:20] * kwerk (~orb_@c-98-220-131-179.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:29] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: kcj)
[5:32] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[5:33] * Greg117 (~Greg@224.231-93-216-fuji-dsl.dhcp.surewest.net) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[5:33] * Vir2L (~Greg@224.231-93-216-fuji-dsl.dhcp.surewest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:37] <jamesglanville1> can anyone remember what the latest delivery date farnell claimed if you ordered before the end of april?
[5:37] <jamesglanville1> i'm looking at a 29th february order that's still saying back order :(
[5:38] <CptnKrunch_> I ordered feb 29th and got mine today
[5:39] <jamesglanville1> ooh so there's hope soon :)
[5:39] <CptnKrunch_> where do you live?
[5:39] <jamesglanville1> uk
[5:39] <jamesglanville1> my 3d printed case is just longing for a pi
[5:39] <CptnKrunch_> did you get a shipping confirmation email from farnel
[5:39] <jamesglanville1> no :(
[5:39] <CptnKrunch_> ah =\
[5:39] <CptnKrunch_> maybe not then
[5:42] <jamesglanville1> ooh i found the email, delivered in week commencing 21/05/12
[5:42] <jamesglanville1> not so bad then
[5:43] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-75-47-45.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:43] <jamesglanville1> http://i.imgur.com/6DSOy.jpg is hungry
[5:44] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) Quit (Quit: This here's FiftyOneFifty on the side. We gone, bye bye)
[5:45] * jamesglanville1 (~james@global-2-74.nat.csx.cam.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[5:47] * CptnKrunch_ (ad207b75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.32.123.117) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:48] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@037096009212.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:48] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:50] <danfoshizzle> Is anyone else having toruble tracking there rs parcel
[5:50] <danfoshizzle> it should arrive today, just seems weird the tracking does not work
[5:51] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5693.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[5:52] * gartenzwerg (~gartenzwe@s16236459.onlinehome-server.info) has left #raspberrypi
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[6:02] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[6:28] * discomeats (~howismyir@213-152-32-22.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) Quit (Quit: z!)
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[6:34] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-75-47-45.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
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[6:50] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[7:05] * Maccer (~Maccer@199.168.138.175) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[7:05] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[7:07] * Matt (matt@freenode/staff-emeritus/matt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[7:08] * maninvan (~maninvan@192.100.104.17) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[7:09] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-46-66.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:11] <shirro> is anyone running mame on the Pi and if so is it worthwhile or is it too slow?
[7:13] <BenO> shirro, I would guess that the pre 95ish games would work fine eventually.
[7:14] <shirro> My son has been asking me about the space invaders stickers on his bedroom wall. I really just want early and simpler games I think
[7:15] <shirro> Is the sound reliable enough?
[7:15] <BenO> They should definitely work fine :) I play that sort on my GP2X at 166MHz
[7:16] <BenO> shirro, There is a way to make it reliable (ie no crashes) but there is still issues with some methods of playback
[7:17] <shirro> is it only alsa via the headphone socket or alsa via hdmi as well that is iffy?
[7:17] <BenO> eg running an spectrum emulator - no problem. Running mplayer - crackly/glitchy sound
[7:17] <BenO> shirro, output isnt
[7:17] <BenO> a problem
[7:17] <BenO> either HDMI or analog jack
[7:17] <BenO> I'd suggest HDMI, as the jack is not that good in terms of hardware
[7:18] <BenO> (What it is powered by, not the mechnical socket)
[7:20] * phirsch_ (~smuxi@xdsl-78-35-58-145.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:20] * phirsch_ (~smuxi@xdsl-78-35-58-145.netcologne.de) Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:21] * phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-94-78.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:24] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[7:36] * hjubal (~hjubal@89.119.42.67) Quit (Changing host)
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[7:37] * fabrice1 (~fabrice@66.80.220.195) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:37] * Compy (~Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ()
[7:38] <tntexplosivesltd> shirro: I like that you put space invaders stickers on your son'
[7:39] <tntexplosivesltd> son's wall
[7:39] <tntexplosivesltd> >.>
[7:40] * fabrice1 (~fabrice@66.80.220.195) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:40] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[7:44] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[7:48] * khildin (~khildin@ip-83-134-213-226.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:53] * eebrah (~Ibrahim_K@212.49.88.72) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[7:54] * itsrache1fish is now known as itsrachelfish
[7:55] * curahack (~curahack@sub-190-88-72ip61.rev.onenet.an) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[8:01] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-75-47-45.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[8:10] * des2 (~des2@pool-71-190-46-66.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:13] * GabrialDestruir (~GabrialDe@96.240.53.112) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[8:15] * koda (~vittorio@host129-223-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:17] * koda (~vittorio@host129-223-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
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[8:24] * Dagger2 (~dagger@sawako.haruhi.eu) Quit (Quit: Quitting)
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[8:32] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:33] * intelmin1r is now known as IntelMiner
[8:36] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[8:40] * techman2 (~gj@121.209.128.126) Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[8:51] <gordonDrogon> morning chaps & chapesses
[8:54] <danfoshizzle> morning
[8:55] * matthiasb (~matthias@e210-005.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
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[8:58] <gordonDrogon> spot of breakfast time I think.
[9:00] <danfoshizzle> Already had the breakfast of champions, bran flakes and coffee, cant be beaten lol
[9:01] <gordonDrogon> porridge for me today I think..
[9:01] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[9:02] <danfoshizzle> Been years since I bothered making porridge, altough did go through a ready brek stage a few months back lol
[9:08] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[9:11] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) Quit (Quit: shirro)
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[9:18] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: kcj)
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[9:20] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[9:26] * sqrt[evil] (~error404@infinity.home.gotroot.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[9:30] * ibrah (~Ibrahim_K@212.49.88.75) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:33] <aditsu_with_pi> heh, I made a Pi case :)
[9:34] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:36] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:36] <ShiftPlusOne> aditsu_with_pi, me too
[9:36] <ShiftPlusOne> and by that I mean I put it in a box and put some holes in it
[9:36] <aditsu_with_pi> me too :p
[9:36] <ShiftPlusOne> nice
[9:37] * sqrt[evil] (~error404@infinity.home.gotroot.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:37] <aditsu_with_pi> a bit tricky to make it stay on the hdmi side (unless it's plugged in)
[9:39] * pjn_oz (~quassel@58.108.220.221) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:41] * stuk_gen (~quassel@151.65.14.50) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:43] * TopherBrink (~GeorgeWBu@host86-137-52-18.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:43] * TopherBrink (~GeorgeWBu@host86-137-52-18.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[9:46] <aditsu_with_pi> ShiftPlusOne: http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/411678_10150757094463021_548488020_9444131_1725315306_o.jpg (sorry it seems to force the browser to treat it as a download)
[9:46] * crimper (~the_real_@cpe-98-154-91-166.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[9:48] <ShiftPlusOne> I didn't put that much effort in mine, lol
[9:50] <aditsu_with_pi> I happened to have a box that fits really well, lying on my desk, waiting to be thrown away
[9:50] <aditsu_with_pi> so I tried to cut some suitable holes
[9:51] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:52] <aditsu_with_pi> I can buy this kind of box for about US$2.3 (and get a free hole puncher with it) :p
[9:53] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[9:54] * MystX (~MystX@49-50-247-177.a.hd.net.nz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[9:55] * Weasel-Soup (~pblin@188.17.194.77.rev.sfr.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:55] <ShiftPlusOne> well, buy the boxes, put raspberry pi stickers on them and seel them on ebay for $50 as custom, hand crafted, cases
[9:56] <aditsu_with_pi> haha, $50
[9:59] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:59] <ShiftPlusOne> hmm *sell
[10:00] * alyosha_sql (~a@93-103-9-223.static.t-2.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:00] * nopz (~n@78.109.80.118) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:00] * mpthompson (~IceChat77@c-50-131-39-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: There's nothing dirtier then a giant ball of oil)
[10:00] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:00] <ShiftPlusOne> seems to be a lot of that going on already... selling sdcards and such
[10:00] * Vlad (~vlad@2001:470:1f09:72b:1234:5678:90ab:cdef) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:00] * atticist (~akwhawd@87-194-182-81.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:01] * smaugyy (~akwhawd@87-194-182-81.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[10:01] * popey (~alan@ubuntu/member/popey) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[10:11] <Hourd> selling sdcards as what?
[10:11] <Hourd> Raspberrypi 'ready'?
[10:11] * nopz (~n@78.109.80.118) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:12] <ready> what?
[10:12] <Hourd> 08:58 < ShiftPlusOne> seems to be a lot of that going on already... selling sdcards and such
[10:13] * Tykling (tykling@gibfest.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:13] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, I've seen a few of those... also bundles with other stuff thrown in
[10:14] <Hourd> i dont mind the bundles but is it just an sd card? or have they put a distro on it?
[10:14] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, with a distro
[10:15] <gordonDrogon> I think there's a place for having sd cards ready programmed.
[10:15] <gordonDrogon> We were talking aboit offering it as a service at our Local LUG group(s)
[10:15] * ibrah is now known as eebrah
[10:15] <gordonDrogon> there will be a *lot* of people from the Windows world who really won't have much of a clue...
[10:16] <Hourd> hmmmm are they putting much markup on them to have them with an image on?
[10:16] <gordonDrogon> dunno - not really looked that closey
[10:16] <Hourd> my little cousin managed to do it...
[10:16] <Hourd> he is 12
[10:17] <danfoshizzle> Seems alot of people do not even know what they are buying
[10:17] <danfoshizzle> JUst following the trend
[10:17] <Jak_o_Shadows> It can be more than it's worth introducing people to linux.
[10:17] <Hourd> they do seem to buy them because it was 'the thing to do'
[10:17] <Jak_o_Shadows> Honestly, I would recommend xubuntu for a first timer.
[10:17] <gordonDrogon> ?8.75 - free postage for a kingston 8GB card ready to go.
[10:17] <danfoshizzle> not too bad that
[10:18] <ShiftPlusOne> it doesn't seem to be too much of a mark up, just what you'd expect from the idiot tax.
[10:18] <gordonDrogon> yup.
[10:18] <danfoshizzle> Xubuntu is the way to go for someone new to linux
[10:18] <gordonDrogon> there are other selling complete "kits" with keyboard, hub, etc. too.
[10:18] <ShiftPlusOne> nuh, linux from scratch is the way to go for someone new to linux
[10:19] <ShiftPlusOne> >.>
[10:19] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[10:19] <ShiftPlusOne> and I am about a quarter serious.
[10:19] <danfoshizzle> lol
[10:19] <gordonDrogon> e.g. ?19 (free postage) for 4GB SD, USB mains charger, 3m cable, HDMI, cat5 and a quick start guide..
[10:19] <Hourd> ShiftPlusOne: :P
[10:19] <Jak_o_Shadows> Definitely normal ubuntu isn't, as I don't know how to do a thing in unity.
[10:19] <gordonDrogon> that's a bit pricey, but it might suit some folks.
[10:20] <danfoshizzle> I hate unity with a passion lol
[10:20] <Hourd> thats not tooooo bad
[10:20] <gordonDrogon> I played with ubuntu at the weekend for the first time - I almost got to like unity...
[10:20] <Hourd> unity sucks
[10:20] <Hourd> theres my stance :)
[10:20] <gordonDrogon> however, I guess it depends on how you currently use a PC - in my world, I have dozens of xterms...
[10:20] * GibbaTheHutt concurrs
[10:21] <Hourd> indeed
[10:21] <ShiftPlusOne> I first started with opensuse and then ubuntu, but didn't really 'get' it. It just felt like a different interface for the same thing (coming from windows). However, I already knew where everything was on windows, so linux just felt awkward. It wasn't until gentoo and lfs, that I actually gained appreciation for linux.
[10:21] <Hourd> i do think that the debian image for rpi is pretty good for people coming from windows because the layout is very imilar
[10:21] <Hourd> *similar
[10:22] <huene> is it with KDE?
[10:23] <Jak_o_Shadows> Also, don't go to the bother of getting an xbox steering wheel and converting it to usb, unless you want to spend hours getting it working
[10:23] <aditsu_with_pi> gordonDrogon: "Local LUG group(s)" heh heh
[10:23] <aditsu_with_pi> department of redundancy department
[10:24] <Hourd> huene: lxde
[10:24] <Hourd> aditsu_with_pi: :P
[10:24] <GibbaTheHutt> only thing I've felt with the images so far is the display setup is a bit too fiddly out of the box (ie cant necessarily see enough to edit a file etc direct)
[10:24] <Hourd> oh?
[10:25] <Hourd> i just added the config.txt in /boot with 1 line in it and mine seems fine
[10:25] <GibbaTheHutt> I still haven't got mine set up right, and I'd rather focus on other things (although dont mind learning a bit about displays in the process)
[10:25] * bob1 (~bob@5ac0e860.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:26] <Hourd> what are you connecting to? and what are your settings?
[10:28] <huene> never had a look at lxde. been more with gnome and xfce. is lxde so similar to windows?
[10:28] <GibbaTheHutt> a samsung monitor 2032bw, currently I'm trying hdmi_mode 4
[10:28] <Hourd> huene: its quite nice, kind of minimal
[10:29] <wjoe> it's pretty similar to xfce
[10:29] <GibbaTheHutt> I've tried adjusting the left/right/top/down bits, but still not right, feels like something is missing somehow with the setup
[10:29] <Hourd> huene: bar at the bottom, pretty similar to xfce
[10:29] <Hourd> GibbaTheHutt: is the problem it not filling the screen?
[10:29] <Hourd> just a box in the middle?
[10:29] <huene> Hourd: thx
[10:29] <Jak_o_Shadows> LXDE is nice, but ultimately XFCE is nicer :P
[10:29] <ShiftPlusOne> disable_overscan=1
[10:30] <GibbaTheHutt> the problem is its off the screen (so I cant see the left hand side, or its blurry), I can get it none blurry, or displayed okish in the centre of the screen, but I can't seem to get both at the same time
[10:30] <ShiftPlusOne> GibbaTheHutt, composite out?
[10:31] <GibbaTheHutt> sorry, should have said, hdmi (with an hdmi->dvi cable)
[10:31] <ShiftPlusOne> what hdmi_mode ?
[10:31] <GibbaTheHutt> I'm trying 4 atm
[10:31] <gordonDrogon> aditsu_with_pi, Local Linux User Groups - LUGs - not heard of them?
[10:31] <GibbaTheHutt> 19 was okish, but not quite right
[10:31] <ShiftPlusOne> how was 16?
[10:32] <GibbaTheHutt> ive also tried without, and just setting the framebuffer
[10:32] <gordonDrogon> I used fvwm for almost 20 years then switched to xfce4 about a year ago.
[10:32] <GibbaTheHutt> I'll try 16
[10:32] <ShiftPlusOne> good luck
[10:33] <aditsu_with_pi> gordonDrogon: yes, I also heard of *redundant* RAID arrays of inexpensive disks, for example :)
[10:33] <ShiftPlusOne> and don't forget disable_overscan=1
[10:34] <GibbaTheHutt> if I disable overscan, is there any way to shift the screen still ? (I cant on the actual monitor)
[10:34] <GibbaTheHutt> 16 comes up none optimum mode and is blurry (but positionally fine)
[10:34] <Hourd> GibbaTheHutt: tried diable_overscan=1?
[10:34] <gordonDrogon> aditsu_with_pi, yea, but the L in LUG is Linux, so Local Linux User groups isn't a tautology.
[10:35] <aditsu_with_pi> gordonDrogon: at least the G is
[10:35] <gordonDrogon> I think some LUGs are better than others though - the one down here coves are huge area (devon & cornwall), so it's hard to get a lot of people together at once.
[10:35] <GibbaTheHutt> Hourd, just trying it now, I had temp tried without overscan disabled, just trying enabled again
[10:35] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't really understand why it would be blurry though
[10:35] <Hourd> ah cool, let us know how it goes :)
[10:36] <gordonDrogon> is this to a TV or a computer monitor?
[10:36] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: i dont even know where my nearest one is
[10:36] <GibbaTheHutt> I think thats as its a none native res and the monitor is struggling to adapt
[10:36] <danfoshizzle> There was a keny lug, although now it seems to have died a little
[10:36] <danfoshizzle> kent*
[10:36] <gordonDrogon> Hourd, if in the UK, start at http://lug.org.uk/
[10:36] <Hourd> yeah midlands+wales
[10:36] <GibbaTheHutt> still the same, pretty blurry text
[10:37] <ShiftPlusOne> well there's your problem
[10:37] <Hourd> its odd that its blurry
[10:37] <ShiftPlusOne> Max Resolution 1680 x 1050
[10:37] <GibbaTheHutt> yep
[10:37] <gordonDrogon> back inna tick.
[10:39] <ShiftPlusOne> tried 4?
[10:39] <ShiftPlusOne> with overscan disabled.
[10:40] <GibbaTheHutt> do you have a link to that page with the various modes and numbers? Cant seem to find it again
[10:40] <ShiftPlusOne> http://elinux.org/RPi_config.txt
[10:40] <GibbaTheHutt> 4 isnt bad, its just off the screen
[10:40] <GibbaTheHutt> thanks
[10:40] <Hourd> i am still having the issue where i can't have keyboard and mouse working at the same time when X is running. i have a powered hub plugged into the pi and all peripherals are running from the hub
[10:41] <ShiftPlusOne> Hourd, logitech keyboard?
[10:41] <Hourd> advent
[10:41] <Hourd> and the mouse is a microsoft sidewinder
[10:41] <Hourd> as my logitec g300 crashed X when clicking
[10:42] <ShiftPlusOne> does dmesg give any clues?
[10:42] <Hourd> nope
[10:42] <ShiftPlusOne> =(
[10:42] <Hourd> not regarding the sidewinder+advent keyboard
[10:42] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:42] <Hourd> i live in the commandline most of the time anyway but did want a graphical environment as well
[10:43] <gordonDrogon> yea, xterms all over the place :)
[10:44] <ShiftPlusOne> I suspect that it's a power thing, but it's just a guess. I get some strange stuff going on when I have the keyboard and mouse hooked up. The oscilloscope shows a bit of oscillation when the keyboard's backlight is on, even when powered from a hub.
[10:45] <ShiftPlusOne> drops from about 4.8-4.9v average to 4.7v as well
[10:46] <Hourd> i got a keyboard with no backlight
[10:46] <Hourd> but its odd because as soon as i unplug the mouse the keyboard comes back
[10:46] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, I gathered that, I am just saying it might have to do with power.
[10:46] <Hourd> i even tried 1 in the pi, 1 in the hub
[10:47] <ShiftPlusOne> I have the same problem. Do you get ethernet cutting out as well when both are plugged in?
[10:47] * hughg (~textual@87.83.30.51) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:47] <Hourd> surely just a keyboard and mouse in a powered hub cant be too much draw... and no ethernet stays connected
[10:48] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok, my ethernet messes up
[10:48] <Hourd> hmmm
[10:48] <ShiftPlusOne> (issue 9)
[10:48] <Hourd> you would have thought if there was a problem ethernet would go as well, seeing as its actually usb
[10:48] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[10:49] <Hourd> i'll try a combined keyboard/mouse at some point
[10:49] <gordonDrogon> theres something that happens during boot-up that causes a bit of a power surge..
[10:50] <Hourd> yey for first release issues \o/
[10:50] <gordonDrogon> I find that if I accidentally try to reverse power it via a USB socket then it goes into an endless reboot cycle... however I can reverse power it OK after it's booted...
[10:50] <aditsu_with_pi> I can use keyboard + mouse + network, no problem
[10:50] <aditsu_with_pi> however, things get complicated when I add a hub and usb flash drive(s)
[10:51] <Hourd> aditsu_with_pi: good for you :P give me the secret lol
[10:51] <Hourd> well i've been using a usb powered screen via the hub at times and thats kinda cool
[10:51] <gordonDrogon> screens can run off usb power?
[10:51] <aditsu_with_pi> Hourd: the secret? use very simple, plain peripherals, I guess
[10:52] <gordonDrogon> that surprises me...
[10:52] <Hourd> i suppose my mouse is the one cousing the problem
[10:52] <Hourd> *causing
[10:52] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: yeah its a Gechic usb 13" 1366x768 screen, used to give laptops dual screen ad it sticks to the back of the 1st screen and flips out
[10:53] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:53] <aditsu_with_pi> btw, if you network the pi with another computer, you can use synergy
[10:53] <aditsu_with_pi> no need for keyboard and mouse on the pi
[10:53] <gordonDrogon> Hourd, ah ok. intersting...
[10:54] <Hourd> i could...... but that defeats the point
[10:54] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:54] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: been using it for about 9 months now, no problems, its actually a really solid screen
[10:54] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:54] <Hourd> cost me about ??100
[10:55] <gordonDrogon> ok, so USB power only, and HDMI for video. pretty neat, I guess.
[10:55] <gordonDrogon> as long as it's under 5 watts power :)
[10:56] <Hourd> yup
[10:56] <gordonDrogon> although I have seen some double-headed USB leads for power for some external hard drives...
[10:56] <Hourd> had vga too
[10:56] <Hourd> this screen is a single usb
[10:56] <gordonDrogon> I'm just using my desktop monitor - its got a 2nd DVI input so I have HDMI to DVI adapter.
[10:56] <gordonDrogon> or an older composite monitor with a tube in it :)
[10:57] <Hourd> hehe
[10:57] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@cpe-67-11-78-98.rgv.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[10:57] <Hourd> well i use this portable monitor when out and about, and use my tv when at home
[10:57] <gordonDrogon> as demonstrated here: http://unicorn.drogon.net/piduino.jpg ;-)
[10:57] <gordonDrogon> my desktop monitor is only 1280x1024. I'm still in the old world of 4:3 :)
[10:57] <Hourd> love it
[10:57] * jsull (~jsull@c-76-104-108-79.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:59] <Hourd> going to put my pi in my robot so i can redeploy to my arduino over wireless (i have xbee for that atm) compile on the robot itself, develop on the robot itself (keep code on it and ofc my git repo) and host a webserver on the robot itself for 'live' feedback
[11:00] <danfoshizzle> What kinda robot you have?
[11:00] <Hourd> 2 wheels + rear caster, just a roaming wheeled robot. http://hourd.co.uk if you are interested
[11:00] <Hourd> currently being built
[11:02] * bootc (~bootc@babbage.bootc.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:02] * khildin (~khildin@ip-83-134-213-226.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[11:03] <gordonDrogon> if they're close by, get the Pi to talk to the Arduino via usb serial...
[11:04] <gordonDrogon> that's what I've been doing, anyway.
[11:04] * hamitron (~hamitron@just.screw-the.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:04] <Hourd> oh i will
[11:05] <Hourd> atm i use xbee to the arduino but i will just wifi to the pi, develop on its shell/ide and deploy over usb and/or control via gpio
[11:05] <gordonDrogon> I wrote some code to extend most "wiring" back to a Linux hose.
[11:05] <gordonDrogon> doesn't wifi on the Arduino eat up 99% of all resources?
[11:05] <Hourd> wifi on pi
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> ok, but how does that then talk to the Arduino?
[11:06] <Hourd> usb
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> a-hang on..
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> wi-fi on the Pi, Pi talking usb serial to the arduino ...
[11:06] <Hourd> yup
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> then you remote talk to the Pu.
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> Pi. ok gottit now :)
[11:06] <Hourd> yeah just ssh onto the pi
[11:06] * katnegermis (~katnegerm@ip2.c648.frb194.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> bigger batteries :)
[11:06] <Hourd> use vim or whatever to write and compile code
[11:07] * Gwayne (~Gwayne@opensuse/member/gwayne) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:07] <gordonDrogon> vim user here too :)
[11:07] <Hourd> oh yeah battery shouldnt be a problem as the robot is pretty large, so i can fit enough batteries on it
[11:07] <hamitron> is it not cheaper/easier to get something with wifi built in? ;)
[11:07] <Hourd> hamitron: wheres the fun in that?
[11:07] <Hourd> ;)
[11:07] <hamitron> ;)
[11:07] <gordonDrogon> some stuff here if interested: https://projects.drogon.net/drogon-remote-control/
[11:07] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:07] * shirro (~shirro@ppp102-6.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Changing host)
[11:07] * shirro (~shirro@pdpc/supporter/active/shirro) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:07] <hamitron> guess I'm just getting lazy with my old age
[11:08] <Hourd> most linux users are masochists anyway :)
[11:08] * matthiasb (~matthias@e215-012.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:08] <gordonDrogon> I'm in the process of packaging up an easy to use serial driver for Linux.
[11:09] * jsull (~jsull@c-76-104-108-79.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: jsull)
[11:09] <Hourd> thats cool
[11:10] <Hourd> infact, that will be pretty sweet
[11:11] <gordonDrogon> it's a tiny bit of code in the arduino really.
[11:12] <Hourd> i like, so pretty much it will be able to have the rpi read and control all the pins on the arduino?
[11:12] * jsull (~jsull@c-76-104-108-79.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:12] * Meatballs|Away is now known as Meatballs
[11:13] * stuk_gen (~quassel@151.65.14.50) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:13] <Hourd> or did i skim read that completely wrong?
[11:13] * stuk_gen (~quassel@151.65.14.50) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:14] <gordonDrogon> that's right.
[11:14] <Hourd> wooo \o/
[11:14] <Hourd> but yes, that will make my project more interesting...
[11:14] <gordonDrogon> you just send commands down the serial to do pin mode, digitalwrite, read, pwm.
[11:15] <gordonDrogon> and analogue read.
[11:15] <Hourd> that is awesome
[11:15] <Hourd> inb4 my entire robot in python
[11:15] <gordonDrogon> trying to guide my wife - brb.
[11:15] <Hourd> kk
[11:15] * gordonDrogon sighs.
[11:15] <gordonDrogon> she keeps moving and losin mobile signal. doh.
[11:16] <gordonDrogon> the joys of being lost on Dartmoor...
[11:16] <Hourd> oh...fun times
[11:16] <Hourd> smartphone? gps? map?
[11:17] <bootc> gordonDrogon: isn't that what Firmata does?
[11:17] <Hourd> rpi, software radio, firestick? :P
[11:18] <bootc> http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/Firmata
[11:19] <NucWin> phone google or apple depending on device they will know where you are and where you been
[11:19] <gordonDrogon> it might be, but I've never heard of it.
[11:20] * FFes (~quassel@office.admea.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:20] <gordonDrogon> all I wanted to do was remote control of my arduinos from a linux host.
[11:20] <gordonDrogon> to effectively use the arduino as a dump IO controller.
[11:20] <bootc> http://firmata.org/wiki/Main_Page
[11:21] * namfonos (~boris@108-194-22-242.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[11:22] <gordonDrogon> well there you go. if only I'd known..
[11:22] <bootc> might save you some work ;-)
[11:22] <gordonDrogon> too late. I've done the work.
[11:23] <gordonDrogon> its not as if it took me more than 20 miuntes though.
[11:23] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: i'll use yours. if that makes you feel better :P
[11:23] <gordonDrogon> heh
[11:23] <gordonDrogon> you might be interested in http://unicorn.drogon.net/serial.c and http://unicorn.drogon.net/serial.h
[11:25] <gordonDrogon> and this: http://unicorn.drogon.net/drcFns.c calls those serial functions with the codes to talk to arduino running my DRC program.
[11:25] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[11:25] <gordonDrogon> although that's part of my BASIC interpreter, so is wrapped up in other stuff.
[11:25] <gordonDrogon> but the internals are there.
[11:26] <gordonDrogon> essentially I did it for my BASIC, so I could use "wiring" from BASIC to control arduinos or the on-board GPIO using the same BASIC instructions.
[11:26] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:32] * ShiftPlusOne (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:34] <danfoshizzle> Wish the parcelforce guy would hurry up, only live 5 minutes from the depot lol
[11:35] <gordonDrogon> heh... you're probably on his return journey then!!!
[11:35] <Hourd> yeah...
[11:35] <danfoshizzle> Noooo, dont say that.
[11:35] <Hourd> i have that, i live 10 mins from depot, and always get my deliveries at like 7pm
[11:36] <danfoshizzle> I need to go out too, but I am not missing delivery of my r_pi for anything lol
[11:36] <gordonDrogon> I'm on the edge of dartmoor - it's random.
[11:38] <Hourd> danfoshizzle: i missed mine... it arrived just after i left on satuday, i didnt get back until end of monday
[11:40] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:40] <danfoshizzle> Refuse to miss it, will even send the mother inlaw shopping if I have to
[11:41] <danfoshizzle> Well I say send more like beg lol
[11:41] * Elfish (amba@2a01:4f8:100:90a1:abc:abc:abc:abc) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:41] <gordonDrogon> heh
[11:41] * AlexanderS (AlexanderS@2a01:4f8:120:7061::5:46a0) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:42] <gordonDrogon> I nearly missed mine - it was on a pre 1pm delivery on a saturday... and we had to leave at 12...
[11:42] <gordonDrogon> fortunately as we were driving out, I saw the postie and he let me take it off him.
[11:43] * Elfish (amba@2a01:4f8:100:90a1:abc:abc:abc:abc) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:43] <Hourd> hehe
[11:44] * AlexanderS (~Alexander@animux.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:44] <Hourd> the posties around here dont even get the packages off of the van, they just walk to the door, stand there, then put the notice through the letterbox
[11:44] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:45] <danfoshizzle> Lol, sounds about right, when I did b&q deliveries we had a 5 minute "wait window" that was more efficient as it allowed for getting off the loo time :P
[11:46] <Hourd> hehe
[11:46] <Hourd> yeah they dont even ring the doorbell
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[11:46] <danfoshizzle> Wait time was cigarette break for me, so I used to like it
[11:46] <gordonDrogon> our posties are ok. it's a small town so we get to know them.
[11:47] <Hourd> i was at my neighbours when the one delivery came, i was stood there watching him do nothing, then he complained at me when i made him get my parcel off of the van
[11:48] <danfoshizzle> I was a good delivery guy, even to the extent of putting heavy stuff in the exact rooms they wanted
[11:48] <Hourd> wow, be my postie!
[11:48] <drazyl> our posties have been great
[11:48] <Hourd> the posties around here seem to think their job is an odd game of knock door run
[11:48] <danfoshizzle> I used to live off of tips lol
[11:48] <drazyl> pretty clued up on who knows who and so what doors to knock on to leave parcels with if no-one is in
[11:48] <Hourd> and they forget the knock bit most of the time
[11:49] <danfoshizzle> Sorry, we looked at your door and decided you were not in
[11:49] <drazyl> and the local parcel office is only 1.5 miles away so if they don't deliver it's easy to pick up the next day on the way to work
[11:50] <Hourd> oh lol thats also funny, the local parcel offic eis only open between 7:30-11am
[11:50] <gordonDrogon> My UPS parcel office used to be 45 miles away - they had a big depot out of town, even for Exeter folks it was 15 miles away.
[11:50] <gordonDrogon> however that's improved - slightly.
[11:50] <Hourd> means i have no time to get my parcels and they close bfore lunch break
[11:51] <gordonDrogon> the local post office sorting depot is 7 miles away, it's not too bad unless you try to get there at rush hour as totnes is the 4th busiest town in Devon.
[11:51] <danfoshizzle> My local pick up point is 0.5 miles away, but then the wait till tomorrow morning would kill me lol
[11:52] <Hourd> hehe
[11:52] <Hourd> bang down the door
[11:53] <danfoshizzle> I would be there at 6.55 waiting lol
[11:54] <danfoshizzle> I you get there after 8 its always friggin packed
[11:54] <danfoshizzle> If*
[11:54] * wej (~j@95.211.10.3) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[11:55] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[11:57] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[11:57] <Hourd> i find a weapon usualy speeds things along
[11:57] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-124-184-93-111.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:00] <danfoshizzle> I like the skipping the qeue method of pretending to be absolutley mental
[12:00] <danfoshizzle> seems to work wonders
[12:00] * eebrah (~Ibrahim_K@212.49.88.75) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:00] <Hourd> yeah
[12:01] <Hourd> lean slightly sideways while walking, tilt your head, and people seem to slowly make way
[12:01] <danfoshizzle> People do not like hanging around mental folk
[12:03] <Hourd> they do not
[12:03] * wej (~j@95.211.10.3) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:04] <danfoshizzle> Why did people vote boris back in?
[12:04] * matthiasb (~matthias@e215-012.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[12:05] <danfoshizzle> Have not kept up lately
[12:06] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[12:06] <Hourd> because the olympics
[12:07] <Hourd> the speach...will be priceless
[12:07] <danfoshizzle> lol
[12:08] <danfoshizzle> I find him hilarious, when I shouldn't :P
[12:08] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:09] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-170.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:09] <Hourd> boris for prime minister!
[12:10] <Hourd> he is good tbf
[12:10] <danfoshizzle> He would probably do a better job
[12:10] <Hourd> yeah
[12:10] <Hourd> as when he does stuff in london, he gets told he can't, he doe sit anywway
[12:11] <Hourd> then the people lvoe him, and th epoliticians hate him
[12:11] * ahven (~ahven@jutukas.saarlane.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[12:11] <Hourd> or that without the typos
[12:11] * effbiai (~effbiai@28-213-9.connect.netcom.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:12] <danfoshizzle> lol he is lovable, but I think thats because he seems genuine
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[12:13] * Hydrazine (~Hydrazine@5571f60d.ftth.concepts.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:13] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-09.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:13] <Hourd> he is
[12:13] <Hourd> plus he gave us boris bikes!
[12:13] <danfoshizzle> lol
[12:15] <SocksG> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/09/transport.world1 # "he" = "ken", presumably?
[12:15] <effbiai> has aonyone else seen the mmc0: long write sync? I've googled it a bit and found 2 pages. one pastebin with the same error message as mine, and a quote from this channel "<jmontleon> has anyone see messages on the console of their rpi: mmc0: not - long write sync ?" - but with no reply
[12:15] <gordonDrogon> not seen that message, but not looked for it either...
[12:17] <effbiai> and the second question is.. i've found "MMC fixes for 3.4-rc2" -> "mmc: use really long write timeout to deal with crappy cards" - seems something atleast similar to my problem is fixed in kernel 3.4
[12:17] * pjn_oz (~quassel@58.108.220.221) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:17] <Hourd> danfoshizzle: girlfriend lives in london so when i go down boris bikes are suefull
[12:17] <effbiai> anyone know? :)
[12:17] * ahven (~ahven@jutukas.saarlane.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:17] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: what are you running? I'm currently running the newest snapshot of F17-arm
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[12:18] <gordonDrogon> debian.
[12:18] <effbiai> squeeze?
[12:18] <gordonDrogon> yes - the 3rd release off the site
[12:19] <effbiai> from 19-04-2012 ?
[12:19] <effbiai> what kernel version does it ship with?
[12:19] <gordonDrogon> Linux dot 3.1.9+ #90 Wed Apr 18 18:23:05 BST 2012 armv6l GNU/Linux
[12:19] <effbiai> thanks
[12:19] <effbiai> I'll check it out and report back
[12:20] <effbiai> it might be a F17-arm Alpha problem
[12:20] <gordonDrogon> I'm using a class 4 kingston SD card.
[12:20] <effbiai> i'm using a class 10 32GB kingston
[12:20] <gordonDrogon> it doesn't work with my class 6 transcend card.
[12:20] <gordonDrogon> their 2nd release did work with that card, so I'm somewhat irritated that it doesn't now.
[12:20] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: please run some read/write tests and update this wiki: http://elinux.org/RPi_Performance
[12:20] <gordonDrogon> not had time to investigate though.
[12:21] <Hourd> is there an xbmc build for the rpi debian?
[12:21] <effbiai> Hourd: you might wanna build it yourselves
[12:21] <effbiai> google it and you'll find the how to
[12:21] <Hourd> fair enough
[12:24] * corbomite (corbomite@c-98-235-33-192.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:29] <gordonDrogon> effbiai, ok run the tests and added in a line for it.
[12:29] * corbomite (corbomite@c-98-235-33-192.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:29] <gordonDrogon> and I think it's now past elevenses time...
[12:29] <gordonDrogon> brb
[12:30] * western (~western@net-93-151-31-131.cust.dsl.teletu.it) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:33] <GibbaTheHutt> Hiya, looking at http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/minimum-video-resolution it implies it supports 1680x1050 (0x3A), does anyone know if that is still correct or out of date (there is another list out there where that isn't mentioned)
[12:33] <zgreg> isn't the SD interface speed still pretty limited because the clock frequency is (too) low?
[12:39] * farmboy (~quassel@cpc15-cmbg14-2-0-cust146.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:41] <GibbaTheHutt> rah, got the higher res 1680x1050 working better now. Is there a place people post configs for monitors or other devices to help others in future ? May help someone else later
[12:44] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: thanks :) I'm cat-ing the image to my SD card now. I'll test if i get the mmc0 error messages in debian aswell
[12:46] <gordonDrogon> this one is noticably slower than the original SD card & image I tried. I'm sort of waiting until I need to place another order with someone to add an sd card into it.
[12:47] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:49] <gordonDrogon> Hm. that wiki page says the kingston class 10 is ok...
[12:50] <gordonDrogon> might try one of these: http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Storage/Memory+Cards/SD+Cards/16GB+Kingston+Ultimate+X+Class+10+Secure+Digital+High+Capacity+Card+%5BSD10G2%2F16GB%5D+?productId=47239 when I next place an oder with Aria.
[12:50] * western (~western@net-93-151-31-131.cust.dsl.teletu.it) Quit ()
[12:51] <wjoe> hope so, I just ordered one of those exact cards
[12:51] <gordonDrogon> I read on the forums that they were working on improved support.
[12:51] <wjoe> (on amazon though, a few pounds cheaper)
[12:51] <gordonDrogon> I order from aria more than amazon...
[12:51] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: I've postet that info about the kingston C10
[12:51] <effbiai> i bought it here: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/genuine-kingston-ultimate-x-sdhc-memory-card-32gb-class-10-92103?item=88
[12:52] <Hourd> GibbaTheHutt: if you find a place mind letting me know? a decent help resouce wul dbe good to get populated
[12:52] <gordonDrogon> ok - I'm in the UK though so will always order from UK stores.
[12:52] <effbiai> dealextreme sends for free to the whole world :)
[12:52] <effbiai> I'm in Norway
[12:53] <gordonDrogon> Hm... I may still get stuch for import duty and VAT on-top.
[12:53] * Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> Not if it's under 13 quid
[12:53] <effbiai> dealextreme can post it as gift ;)
[12:53] <Hourd> effbiai: even larger orders?
[12:53] <effbiai> I've never payed toll on my DX orders to Norway. and Norway's really strict
[12:53] <gordonDrogon> I'd be buying it through my business so I want a UK company and I can claim VAT back on it.
[12:54] <effbiai> Hourd: since it's free shipping.. you can just order many small shipments ;)
[12:54] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: then it makes sense to buy it from co.uk
[12:55] <gordonDrogon> I'll probably be buying some more hard drives for some small servers in the next week or 2 from Aria, so I'll just add it onto that order.
[12:55] <effbiai> it's even cheaper from the aria.co.uk site :) (the 32GB one)
[12:56] <SocksG> Without wanting to gt too political, http://twitpic.com/9i72bd got me thinking, and now I want to try to buy from companies who pay tax in the country in which I live.
[12:56] <gordonDrogon> hm. hard drive prices are almost coming down in-price again. I need a pair of 2TB drives for my new office server.
[12:58] <gordonDrogon> SocksG, In broad terms I agree with that. As a self-emploed businessman in the UK, I pay UK taxes so companies that sell in the UK and don't pay UK taxes do somewhat irritate me.
[12:58] <gordonDrogon> I've not actually bought anything off amazon for some years now, however mostly for other reasons at the time.
[12:58] <SocksG> I agree that it needs to be "in broad terms"
[12:58] <abaxas> in the uk that's called 'directors pay' :P
[12:59] <gordonDrogon> I've just a sole-trader - no directors, no dividends...
[12:59] * Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:59] <drazyl> SocksG - now that's a good message to get across to the general public
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[13:00] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] <shirro> unfortunately retailers here charge double the overseas price and practice tax evasion.
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[13:01] <Hourd> on a slightly related note... does anyone else get anoyed that you can see something for say $100 and then you find a UK retailer of the same thing and its ??100
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[13:02] * hughg (~textual@87.83.30.51) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[13:02] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[13:02] <danfoshizzle> Yes very annoying, paying
[13:02] <gordonDrogon> Yea - $ -> ?. Although it's less common now though.
[13:03] <Hourd> i still see it all the time
[13:03] <danfoshizzle> double for stuff not right in my eyes
[13:03] <Hourd> or its like $100 -> ??85 or somthing
[13:03] <shirro> and every dollar I save avoiding gst and australia tax is another dollar to spend on the kids.
[13:03] <gordonDrogon> maybe I just buy the wrong things...
[13:03] <gordonDrogon> shirro, thats one way to look at it!
[13:04] <Hourd> so either americans are getting a great deal or the UK is being ripped off
[13:04] * BenO (~BenO@87.115.102.49) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[13:04] <gordonDrogon> bit of both.
[13:04] <Hourd> sucks
[13:04] <gordonDrogon> there is a cost associated with shipping it over, uk import duty and so on.
[13:04] <Hourd> yeah but its not the cost of the item again
[13:05] <shirro> I think americans must be really uncompromising customers or something. If you double your prices here there will always be some sucker that will pay it
[13:05] <Hourd> (on more expensive items anyway)
[13:05] <gordonDrogon> sure. but I also think the sellers charge what they think the market will stand.
[13:05] <gordonDrogon> I certinaly do that when I price some jobs for customers :)
[13:05] <Hourd> hehe
[13:05] <Hourd> what do you do again?
[13:05] <danfoshizzle> lol
[13:05] <aditsu_with_pi> hmm I think I just paid too much for an SD card (but the shop was nearby so saving time)
[13:05] <shirro> gordonDrogon: they will respect you more for it
[13:05] <gordonDrogon> me? "stuff" :)
[13:06] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: what kind fo stuff?
[13:06] <gordonDrogon> I run a tiny hosting company - but that's to support the consultancy & sysadmin stuff I do for my clients.
[13:06] <gordonDrogon> so variou stuff like VoIP and embedded software development.
[13:06] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: hmmm thats kinda what i want to do
[13:06] <Hourd> as i am at university atm
[13:06] <gordonDrogon> most of my work comes via word of mouth - that's hard to build up in the first place.
[13:07] <gordonDrogon> stick with the uny course :)
[13:07] <gordonDrogon> it won't do you any harm in the long-run.
[13:07] <gordonDrogon> although it's now 25 years since I left uny - I was there for nearly 8 years...
[13:07] <Hourd> oh yeah i will finish uni first :P i meant after
[13:07] <Hourd> currently working as part of an industrial year
[13:08] * Tykling (tykling@gibfest.dk) Quit (Excess Flood)
[13:08] <gordonDrogon> they still do that?
[13:08] <gordonDrogon> good to get practical experience.
[13:08] <Cheery> hi
[13:09] <gordonDrogon> What Ho, Cheery
[13:09] <Hourd> yeah its been good. plus when i go to an interview i wont get thrown out due to no experience
[13:09] * gordonDrogon nods.
[13:09] <Hourd> which is increasingly common
[13:09] <gordonDrogon> I presume it's something compuing related your studying?
[13:09] <Hourd> "so what you have a 1st class degree? you havn't worked in the indusrty. bye bye"
[13:09] <Cheery> gordonDrogon: well I'm all right but slept quite late
[13:10] <drazyl> Hourd - depends on the job you're after I guess
[13:10] <gordonDrogon> a long lie in is always nice :)
[13:10] * drazyl has never thrown someone out for no experience
[13:10] <Hourd> yeah i do computer science, with embedded, robotics and system admin modules :P
[13:10] <gordonDrogon> the startups I was working for some 15-20 years ago would suck up fresh graduates...
[13:10] <Hourd> drazyl: you are one of the nice ones
[13:10] <gordonDrogon> maybe things have changed recently.
[13:10] <drazyl> Hourd - ta, I like to think I am sensible :)
[13:10] <danfoshizzle> Wow, and heres me the local pc repair guy lol
[13:10] <Hourd> yeah startups are good, but big companies hate people with no experience despice their quailifications
[13:11] * joukio (~joukio@195-240-122-121.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:11] <drazyl> entry level is all about attitude and learning ability anyway
[13:11] <Hourd> generaly, not all fo them
[13:11] <gordonDrogon> I've almost always worked with startups. More exciting than some 500+ people behmoth...
[13:11] <Hourd> yeah i want to work in a small team that has the potential to go somewhere rather than disapear into the machine
[13:12] <gordonDrogon> yup.
[13:12] <gordonDrogon> did a job last year with 2 others and we were exactly that.
[13:12] <Hourd> :D
[13:12] <gordonDrogon> prepared to just get the job done rather than have endless meetings, etc.
[13:12] <drazyl> oooh no, you gotta have meetings, and meetings about meetings, and...
[13:12] <gordonDrogon> however the company we were working for (Arriva) didn't quite get the hang on that sort of attitude.
[13:12] <Hourd> i want to do sysadmin stuff and odd jobs for/in a team. making cool stuff, even make hardware stuff
[13:13] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: Arriva? as in transport?
[13:13] <gordonDrogon> yes - crosscountry trains.
[13:13] * Hourd shudders
[13:13] <gordonDrogon> I put broadband on a train for them.
[13:13] <Hourd> they never turn it on
[13:14] <gordonDrogon> they turned it off last weekend - it has been running for nearly 18 months.
[13:14] <drazyl> that must be one long cable
[13:14] <gordonDrogon> but just on one train.
[13:14] <gordonDrogon> heh
[13:14] <Hourd> hmm well they advertise it on alot of their trains and its never on, and when i ask they have no clue
[13:14] <dmsuse> gordonDrogon: was that using a 3g modem?
[13:14] <gordonDrogon> yes, 2 x 3g modems.
[13:14] <danfoshizzle> I tiried the free wifi on the bus the other day, it was pretty damn fast
[13:14] <gordonDrogon> one train was stickered with "Free Wi-Fi" stickers.
[13:15] <Hourd> i use them to get from midlands to west wales
[13:15] <shirro> Doesn't everyone have 3G (or better) in their pockets now?
[13:15] <gordonDrogon> so if you got that train you'd have been lucky - 1 in 65 chance :)
[13:15] <danfoshizzle> Was an arriva bus come to think of it
[13:15] <gordonDrogon> shirro, yes... but on these trains it doesn't work very well due to a metalised foil on the windows.
[13:15] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: i've seen quite a few of them with free wifi on them
[13:16] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@90-227-25-142-no68.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:16] <gordonDrogon> XC handed the project over to Nomad Digital - and they were supposed to be starting the roll-out last month...
[13:16] <shirro> gordonDrogon: ok. don't have passenger trains where I am and in the city they are full of ferals
[13:16] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: does the debian come with X preinstalled?
[13:16] <gordonDrogon> effbiai, yes, login and type 'startx'
[13:16] <effbiai> init 3 <3
[13:16] <Hourd> it has quite a lot of stuff pre-installed
[13:17] <gordonDrogon> init 3 won't do it - debian doesn't use runlevels like FC does.
[13:17] <effbiai> oh
[13:17] <shirro> you can make it. just edit your inittab
[13:17] <effbiai> i'm a rh guy! ;>
[13:18] <gordonDrogon> most debian installs do boot into X - they just decided not to on the Pi.
[13:18] <shirro> or just install a display manager
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[13:18] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: that's a wise choice now that it's in the developer state
[13:18] <Hourd> i think it shoudl stay that way for the ones they put in schools
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[13:18] <gordonDrogon> it depends what the schools do with them.
[13:19] <Hourd> true
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[13:19] <Hourd> well at least for gcse and higher students
[13:19] <gordonDrogon> Personally, I'm not convinced that they'll do much... I know ICT teachers who can barely send email - maybe send them all back to school ;-)
[13:19] <Hourd> as its still pretty simple
[13:19] * moosya (~moosya@ool-182d46b3.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Quit: moosya)
[13:19] <effbiai> haha
[13:19] <Hourd> yeah it will be limited by the teachers but there are quite a few of them crying out for better ICT sylabus
[13:20] <Hourd> as in scrap ICT introduce computer science
[13:20] * diplo (~diplo@82-69-196-149.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[13:20] <Hourd> as i dont think word and excel can be made into gcse qualification really...
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[13:21] <gordonDrogon> I think the unys should be better at the comp. sci part, but the schools should deginately be intrpducing programming and some history, classic routines, etc.
[13:21] <Hourd> at least somethign that requires more than a couple fo brain cells
[13:21] <abaxas> why not do like they used to and do both
[13:21] <shirro> OLPC australia won't even let a teacher touch an XO unless they have done a short course. I wonder if the foundation shouldn't run some teacher accreditation thing.
[13:22] <abaxas> my GSCE is 'IT' was a mixture of both? from wordprocessing to flow charts
[13:22] <Hourd> hmmm maybe
[13:22] <abaxas> long time ago mind
[13:22] <Hourd> abaxas: i still think it needs more than that
[13:22] <gordonDrogon> there are a few - e.g. this guy: http://about.me/alanodonohoe who I met last weekend.
[13:22] <abaxas> it was the 2nd year of gsces !
[13:23] <shirro> My wife frequently is required to teach outside of the subjects she trained in. I can just imagine her being thrown a lab full of RPi and told to make something up
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[13:23] <gordonDrogon> well, show her how and she'll be better than her ICT colleagues ;-)
[13:23] <shirro> she is an art teacher
[13:23] <gordonDrogon> I'd like to go into teaching but they want me to do a 3-year teaching degree first ...
[13:23] <Hourd> IT lessons these days are snooze worthy
[13:23] <abaxas> not sure my view and viewsheet skills are up to much these days
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[13:24] <Hourd> i'd love to go into teaching but i wouldnt be alowed to teach anything useful
[13:24] <abaxas> sometimes useful is not what is needed
[13:24] <shirro> I would like to teach. But I would prefer if the kids were there by choice.
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[13:27] <Hourd> abaxas: but there is no computing < A-level that is remotely related
[13:27] <Hourd> and even then its terrible
[13:27] <abaxas> that is a shame
[13:27] <Hourd> in the UK at least
[13:27] <Hourd> as i did both, and as i am 21 it was not very long ago
[13:28] <abaxas> where are the lego robots
[13:28] <Hourd> considering i do computer science as a degree and i hated both gcse IT and A-level computing
[13:28] <abaxas> where is the logo turtle
[13:28] <abaxas> where is the programming
[13:28] <abaxas> mate wrote a love matching program
[13:28] <abaxas> rough translation
[13:29] <shirro> I used to rid my bike to a maths teachers house on weekends with a friend and get given the keys to a school room and we would go use the computers unsupervised. That sort of trust counts for more than testing and curriculum. Schools have lost that.
[13:29] <abaxas> he wanted to ask this lass out :P
[13:29] <Hourd> hehe
[13:29] <Hourd> yeah you can't do anythign liek that these days
[13:30] <abaxas> in some cases the kids dont even have to do the work
[13:30] <abaxas> they ahve helpers who do
[13:30] <shirro> If a girl asked my out my turtle I think I would end up marrying her
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[13:30] <abaxas> under the banner of 'special needs'.
[13:30] <Hourd> yeah that anoys me no end
[13:30] <Hourd> you can have someone with the exact same qualification as you and not even know anything
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[13:33] <zleap> ok i am not sure on the context here, but I agree with that last statement
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[13:42] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: i'm using debian now and i don't see the error messages about the SD card.. the problem has to be the kernel. I'm gonna test F17 with my own kernel (and the debian prebuild kernel) to see if it makes a different
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[13:43] <effbiai> one big different between debian and f17 is read/write speed to the SD card. debian is damn slow!
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[13:44] <gordonDrogon> effbiai, ok - you might be able to lift the debian kernel to the FC image (but I'm not sure, however who knows :)
[13:44] <gordonDrogon> effbiai, hm - slow but no errors ... ???
[13:45] <gordonDrogon> they did change *something* between the 2nd and third releases of Debian - I used the 2nd initially and it was fast on my Transcend C6 card, but that card wouldn't work on the 3rd Debian release.
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[13:49] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: yes, slow and no errors
[13:49] <effbiai> i'm posting the data on the wiki now
[13:50] <gordonDrogon> maybe another column in that table to mention OS & Version.
[13:51] <effbiai> yep
[13:51] <effbiai> allready done ;)
[13:51] <effbiai> waiting for the final test before i click publish
[13:52] <effbiai> done
[13:52] <effbiai> please update your detail on the card you've added
[13:52] <gordonDrogon> ok
[13:53] <effbiai> and yes - it's possible to copy the kernel.img, but I need to install the modules aswell ;)
[13:55] * acp_ is now known as acp
[13:56] <gordonDrogon> think you may have made a typo (or 2!) effbiai - it's Debian not Ubuntu and 3.1.9 not 2.1.9 ...
[13:57] <gordonDrogon> Hm. so getting that Kingston class 10 isn't really going to help at all )-:
[13:58] * Plankalkuel (~paethon@chello213047250034.tirol.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:59] <gordonDrogon> it's frustratingly slow though. Going to try NFS ..
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[14:01] <jaakkos> you can also try to disable journaling or use ext2.
[14:01] <gordonDrogon> not convinced that would help...
[14:01] <gordonDrogon> there is always eatmyfiles... :)
[14:01] <jaakkos> probably not too much, no
[14:01] <jaakkos> journaling isn't such a good idea on flash anyway
[14:01] <gordonDrogon> I installed eatmyfiles on my AAO and it's made a difference - especially with firefox!
[14:03] <gordonDrogon> oops, eatmydata not eatmyfiles
[14:05] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: fixed
[14:05] <gordonDrogon> :)
[14:05] <jaakkos> effbiai: i wonder how what fs and mount options are used on fedora and if the partition is incorrectly aligned on debian image... that can hurt a lot.
[14:05] <drazyl> has it eaten any data?
[14:06] <jaakkos> or perhaps the kernel is just fresh.
[14:06] <shirro> I might try eatmydata when compiling things. I don't think I would be comfortable with it for much else
[14:06] <gordonDrogon> no data lost to my knowledge yet...
[14:06] <effbiai> nope, no data lost
[14:06] <effbiai> atleast if it is.. i haven't noticed it :)
[14:06] <gordonDrogon> do SD cards need to be aligned?
[14:06] <gordonDrogon> I know the WDC EARS drives do, but I wasn't aware of anything critical for SD cards...
[14:07] <jaakkos> you still have block access.
[14:07] <effbiai> bbl
[14:08] <effbiai> i'll investigate the speed different on the distros, and get back to you later gordonDrogon
[14:08] <gordonDrogon> ok no rush though.
[14:09] <effbiai> you don't tell that to an engineer witch allready have too much to do :P
[14:09] <effbiai> which*
[14:09] <gordonDrogon> I'm in Devon - one of the most laid-back counties in england :)
[14:09] <jaakkos> effbiai: how do you measure btw? (surely you are syncing, eg. if you use dd to benchmark?)
[14:10] <gordonDrogon> the benchmark is on the wiki page - it's a crude dd (crude but relatiely effective)
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[14:11] <jaakkos> that test is totally bogus.
[14:11] <jaakkos> you need to 'sync' after writing and count that time too.
[14:12] <jaakkos> the stuff goes to kernel cache first.
[14:12] <gordonDrogon> sure we know that.
[14:12] <gordonDrogon> but the test is 2x memory size.
[14:13] <jaakkos> yeah, at least half should be on the card then
[14:14] <Matt> gordonDrogon: send some clotted cream this way?
[14:14] <gordonDrogon> matt Hehe... buy it online!
[14:14] <gordonDrogon> we get ours delivered weekly...
[14:14] <gordonDrogon> along with the milk.
[14:14] <Matt> lucky sod :)
[14:15] <Veryevil> Hexxeh: You about?
[14:16] * ironzorg_ is now known as ironzorg
[14:18] <gordonDrogon> Hm. well that was intersting. No speed change between compiling my BASIC on the SD card vs. compiling via NFS.
[14:18] <gordonDrogon> suggests the underlying medium isn't the bottleneck!
[14:18] <IT_Sean> wheeel, that was a fun way to start the day. :| dammed windows updates broke my laptop last night
[14:19] <gordonDrogon> er, dump 'doze and install Linux :)
[14:19] * mhcerri (Marcelo@nat/ibm/x-srwpvjocbdgupywa) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:19] <IT_Sean> it's my work laptop
[14:19] <IT_Sean> My personal laptop runs linux already.
[14:20] <gordonDrogon> 87 seconds on Pi to compile BASIC, 5 on my workstation.
[14:20] <jaakkos> (gordonDrogon: btw the debian root partition is 1MB aligned.)
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[14:23] <gordonDrogon> so SD card benefit from being aligned? I wasn't aware they did..
[14:23] <jaakkos> it could be just a rumor.
[14:23] <jaakkos> but at least that shouldn't be the issue if there really is a difference between the distros
[14:24] <gordonDrogon> hm. googling suggests there are android people doing it...
[14:24] <mjr> it's not unlikely they benefit from some alignment. And 1 MB is a large enough offset to properly align to many possible actual alignment preferences
[14:24] <gordonDrogon> I am more surprised that the Pi is some 17 times slower at compiling than my workstation is.
[14:25] <mjr> I am not ;]
[14:26] <jaakkos> did anyone else get their rootfs corrupted on the sd card?
[14:26] <gordonDrogon> I have.
[14:26] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:26] <gordonDrogon> but only when I used my original transcend class-6 card with the 3rd debian release.
[14:26] <gordonDrogon> it was OK with the 2nd release.
[14:26] <gordonDrogon> the kingston class 4 cards I'm currently using are fine.
[14:27] <jaakkos> alright.
[14:27] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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[14:28] <gordonDrogon> it's a minor irritation to me that I now have a useless SD card.
[14:28] <jaakkos> gordonDrogon: did it happen on special occasions only
[14:29] <gordonDrogon> jaakkos, the corruption? Happens right after boot. console full of ext4 whinges )-:
[14:29] <jaakkos> or, before/at previous shutdown perhaps?
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[14:29] <jaakkos> i think mine is very prone if it doesn't get properly unmounted
[14:30] <gordonDrogon> brand new imaged card.
[14:30] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:30] <jaakkos> oh that never happened to me.
[14:30] <jaakkos> but i may be just lucky.
[14:30] <jaakkos> my transcend sdxc 64GB was especially prone
[14:30] <jaakkos> class 10
[14:31] <jaakkos> kingston 4GB class 4 seems better
[14:31] <gordonDrogon> well - the card wan't new and it worked perfectly well on the 2nd debian released by them - I ran it with taht for a few days before I got the kingston cards, tried them, then re-imaged the original card with the latest debian and failures.
[14:31] <jaakkos> sdhc
[14:31] <jaakkos> also, i noticed when i was running with 700mA rated PSU, it was extremely prone, also ethernet didn't work due to insufficient power
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[14:32] <gordonDrogon> never had power issues to my knowledge (except when reverse powering it from USB by accident!)
[14:32] <jaakkos> i changed to 1,5A powered USB hub and those issues disappeared
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[14:33] <gordonDrogon> I've always had a 2A supply - more by accident than design though - that's just what came with the hub I bought!
[14:34] <ReggieUK> so are more people having sd card issues now then?
[14:35] <gordonDrogon> not noticed it on the forums.
[14:35] <jaakkos> yeah not too much on the forums that i see
[14:35] * phantone is now known as phantoxe
[14:35] <jaakkos> but the problem does seem to exist, of course the interesting question is what are the conditions
[14:37] <gordonDrogon> hm. just checked now and Dom has said there's a fix for some SD card issues. Might give that a try - as an excuse for build a new kernel for it myself.
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[14:39] <Matt> see, in a way I'm glad I don't have a pi yet
[14:39] <Matt> cause I'd be getting nothing done :)
[14:39] <passstab> lol me too
[14:39] <gordonDrogon> Oh I'm getting plenty done...
[14:39] <gordonDrogon> Just not the right stuff all the time :)
[14:40] * FFes (~quassel@office.admea.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:40] <passstab> i don't get stuff done, full stop.
[14:40] <passstab> :P
[14:43] * western (~western@net-93-151-31-131.cust.dsl.teletu.it) Quit ()
[14:43] <aditsu_with_pi> Matt: sigh... you're right
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[14:55] <IT_Sean> i got a RaspberryPi update from RS yesterday. Got excited when i saw it in my inbox, thinking it was going to tell me i could order.
[14:55] <IT_Sean> Sadly, it was not. :(
[14:55] <effbiai> same here, tho i got one from element 14! ;)
[14:56] <gordonDrogon> nothing here from RS. Not really caring as Farnell said they'd send w/c 21st.
[14:57] <Matt> friend of mine was bitching about Allied/RS yesterday
[14:58] * afents is now known as ahven
[14:58] <Matt> <@doc> They've sent me 2 "updates" on my order that said nothing much at all, just "We're going to deliver someday, we PROMISE!"
[14:58] <Matt> <@doc> so I went to look up my order yesterday
[14:58] <Matt> <@doc> and it doesn't exist
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[15:00] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993) Quit (Quit: kcj)
[15:00] <IT_Sean> ?
[15:00] <IT_Sean> ahh. hmm. that's strange
[15:00] <zgreg> IT_Sean: yes, these updates are mostly useless
[15:01] <IT_Sean> Yes, they are.
[15:01] <zgreg> it's even worse than not telling or saying anything, like farnell/element14 does
[15:01] <IT_Sean> they kind of suck.
[15:02] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[15:02] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[15:04] * alyosha_sql (~a@88.200.57.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[15:05] * mrcan_ (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:05] * mdavey (~chatzilla@visitor-net.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] <Matt> all in all, neither vendor was really prepared :)
[15:07] <TopherBrink> nobody was
[15:08] * mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[15:08] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-170.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:09] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-68-173-234-162.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:10] * andatche (~andatche@2001:470:91db:2:f45a:a265:7a24:3f10) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[15:10] * mrcan_ (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[15:10] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-170.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:12] <passstab> and nobody IS prepared for whats coming up
[15:12] <IT_Sean> ?
[15:13] <IT_Sean> what's that, passstab ??
[15:13] <passstab> once the education part kicks off..
[15:13] <IT_Sean> mhmmm?
[15:15] <SBeans> got my PI yesterday
[15:15] <SBeans> what a lovely feeling
[15:15] <effbiai> jaakkos: yes, I'm using the dd example from the same wiki page.
[15:15] <passstab> it will get verry exciting
[15:15] <SBeans> then I remembered: I dont know shit! So tonight is the learning and re-learning begins
[15:16] <passstab> lol :)
[15:16] <SBeans> has anyone here used unetbootin
[15:17] * joukio (~joukio@195-240-122-121.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:17] <SBeans> (for raspberry PI SD cards?)
[15:17] <passstab> i don't think so
[15:18] <effbiai> SBeans: F17-arm uses uboot
[15:18] <mjr> I don't think they support the pi
[15:18] <passstab> you should just learn dd
[15:18] <effbiai> or cat ;)
[15:18] <passstab> ?
[15:19] <gordonDrogon> Hm. intersting. I've just re-written that 'dodgy' SD card I had with a copy of my image and so-far so-good...
[15:19] <SBeans> yea not bothered about learning dd
[15:19] <SBeans> I think I will indeed just do that
[15:19] <effbiai> (xz)cat blabla.img > /dev/DRIVE ;)
[15:19] <SBeans> really that easy?
[15:19] <effbiai> yep
[15:19] <SBeans> lol thats silly
[15:19] <gordonDrogon> from a linux host, however it depends on your shell
[15:20] <effbiai> or osx
[15:20] <SBeans> um, im running ubuntu
[15:20] <SBeans> so
[15:20] <gordonDrogon> csh/tcsh won't let you > to a file in /dev as it can't re-create it. under bash it's fine as it recognises it as a special file.
[15:20] <effbiai> it also works on osx hmm.. tiger? (the newest one)
[15:20] <effbiai> probably alot more than the newest one aswell. cat aint that new :P
[15:20] <gordonDrogon> however I appear to be the only person on the planet that still uses tcsh and not bash...
[15:20] <aditsu_with_pi> SBeans: dd if=file of=device
[15:21] <SBeans> so many easy ways :D
[15:21] <zgreg> any csh variant is simply horrible
[15:21] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: why?
[15:21] <SBeans> do I need to format the sd card at all?
[15:21] <SBeans> I assumed I did...
[15:21] <gordonDrogon> it's only horrible if youve not been using it for the past 20 years.
[15:21] <aditsu_with_pi> I use zsh
[15:21] <mjr> SBeans, not separately, no
[15:21] <effbiai> gordonDrogon: btw. spoken with some of the F17-arm guys.. the shipped kernel is a non upstream kernel.. so i'll have to compile a new one to check if the mmc0 sync error gets away
[15:22] <mjr> the filesystems are included in the image file
[15:22] <aditsu_with_pi> partitions too
[15:22] <SBeans> oh that makes sense
[15:22] * gordonDrogon nods.
[15:22] <SBeans> awesome
[15:22] * johnthebear (~Johnthebe@13-166-177.client.wireless.msu.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:22] <gordonDrogon> it's literally a disk image, partition table, parittions the lot.
[15:23] <effbiai> but after you've done that.. you have to resize your partition if you want a bit more space ;)
[15:24] * s[x] (~sx]@ppp59-167-157-96.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:24] <aditsu_with_pi> I think SD should stand for Slow Digital
[15:24] <effbiai> haha
[15:24] <gordonDrogon> yea..
[15:24] <drazyl> Sucky Design
[15:25] <gordonDrogon> Sucky Design Highly Crap.
[15:25] * Compy (~Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:26] <effbiai> lol
[15:26] <gordonDrogon> still.. it serves a purpose - which was a low pin-count serial access device.
[15:26] <abaxas> it was designed a media storage device not a random access one
[15:26] <abaxas> it does exactly what it should and how it should do it
[15:26] <abaxas> not it's fault if people use it for something different
[15:27] <shirro> aditsu_with_pi: I copied my zsh config to an arm board. The first time it tried to set my prompt with git status everything paused for 20 seconds.
[15:28] <drazyl> abaxas - media storage is random access
[15:28] <aditsu_with_pi> SD - Sequential Device :p
[15:29] <abaxas> it is random access on reads
[15:29] <abaxas> not so on writes
[15:30] <abaxas> not what it was designed for
[15:30] <abaxas> it's for mp3s/pictures etc
[15:30] <drazyl> abaxas still random access, or are you always expected to access them in the order they were written
[15:31] <abaxas> maybe a better term would be Write occastionally, read many
[15:31] <abaxas> but that acronym is already used :P
[15:32] * mdavey (~chatzilla@visitor-net.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[15:34] <Matt> FROW :)
[15:34] <Matt> Frequent Read, Occasional Write
[15:34] * curahack (~curahack@sub-190-88-70ip37.rev.onenet.an) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:34] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[15:34] * IT_Sean prefers WONR. Write Once, Never Read
[15:35] <aditsu_with_pi> there's a very fast device for that
[15:35] <Matt> there is :)
[15:35] <IT_Sean> /dev/null, right?
[15:35] <Matt> correct
[15:35] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:35] <aditsu_with_pi> yep
[15:35] <zgreg> SD isn't that slow actually
[15:36] <gordonDrogon> Eh?
[15:36] <zgreg> the physical interface is quite fast, especially the new UHS variants
[15:36] <gordonDrogon> It's the speed SCSI drives were 20 years ago.
[15:36] * fiftyonefifty (~fiftyonef@206.248.12.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:36] <gordonDrogon> SCSI bus was 5MB/sec initially.
[15:36] <gordonDrogon> However it did speed-up quite quickly.
[15:37] * IT_Sean gives gordonDrogon the 32mb SCSI HDD out of his first computer
[15:37] <gordonDrogon> just benchmarked that transcend device. it's behaving itsself now - most irritating!
[15:37] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:37] <zgreg> you can buy SD cards that don't suck at random writes, but they're expensive
[15:37] <gordonDrogon> woa 32MB... :)
[15:37] <Matt> thinking of SCSI drives
[15:37] <Matt> I have a ST1480N here
[15:38] <gordonDrogon> My first hard drive was a 5MB Rodime - connected to an Apple II. Fantastic (at the time)
[15:39] <gordonDrogon> My first PC drive was a 280MB IDE thing. We thought it was amazing - it was the most I could afford for my first PC on the budget I had... $1200 I think. (I was in the US at the time)
[15:39] <Matt> I think I even have a box with a vanilla SCSI-II controller I could attach it to
[15:39] <gordonDrogon> :)
[15:39] <gordonDrogon> Actually, it might have been $1000.
[15:40] <gordonDrogon> I got a 14" colour monitor, the PC case - 486DX66 with (I think) 32MB of RAM, an ethernet card and video, keyboard and mouse, and the hard drive.
[15:40] <Matt> nice
[15:40] <gordonDrogon> it blew the pants off the sparcstations we were using and paying 10's of 1000's of $ at the time.
[15:41] <IT_Sean> I actually still have that harddrive.
[15:41] <IT_Sean> from my first computer
[15:41] * gordonDrogon cheers
[15:41] <IT_Sean> dunno if there is anything on it, or even if it's still readable.
[15:41] <Matt> I remember dad spending a small fortune on a new PC around 89, to replace the XT clone he had been using, which his employer purchased from him to put on his desk at work
[15:41] <IT_Sean> it's just sitting on a shelf
[15:42] <Matt> IIRC it was about ??1200
[15:42] <Matt> for a Viglen Vig-II 286
[15:42] <Matt> 16MHz, 1MB RAM, 40MB HDD and colour VGA display
[15:42] * Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:43] <Matt> the case, PSU and FDD from that box were in use up until last year
[15:43] * poptire (~quassel@64.31.59.70) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:43] <Matt> when I finally retired it and replaced it with a little HP Microserver
[15:43] <Matt> primarily cause my mum wanted a pvr
[15:44] * mhcerri (Marcelo@nat/ibm/x-srwpvjocbdgupywa) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[15:44] * mhcerri (Marcelo@nat/ibm/x-fszuoungzhjjembh) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:45] <IT_Sean> For a while my desktop at home was a secondhand HP small business machine, running Linux. Pent 4 CPU. 512mb RAM. CD-ROM. I purchased it on ebay for $15 shipped.
[15:45] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/280.jpg
[15:45] <IT_Sean> Sold it a year later for $130 shipped.
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> yea, at $15 you can't go wrong...
[15:46] <IT_Sean> even less wrong when you sell it a year later for $130 :p
[15:46] * WASDx (~AINOR@81-229-79-162-no64.business.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> I remember taking my original 5MB one apart when it died... it was a nice paper weight..
[15:47] <Hourd> hehe
[15:47] <IT_Sean> was a great little machine, for the price.
[15:47] <Hourd> 'for the price'
[15:47] * Matt remembers taking apart the original 10MB disk from his XT
[15:47] <IT_Sean> yes. for the price.
[15:47] <Matt> after it finally crapped out
[15:48] * WASDx (~AINOR@81-229-79-162-no64.business.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:49] * dnstbr (~dnstbr@rrcs-24-227-252-21.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:50] <GabrialDestruir_> Ugh.... this is annoying... according to export.farnell.com my order is "complete"
[15:50] <GabrialDestruir_> but I have no shipping info
[15:50] <wjoe> yeah, that's normal
[15:50] <wjoe> annoying, but normal
[15:50] <Hourd> GabrialDestruir_: it will magicaly appear in a few days
[15:51] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:51] <GabrialDestruir_> It's been "Complete" for a few days -.-
[15:52] <Hourd> then any day now
[15:52] * Simooon (~simon@h196.natout.aau.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:52] * bob1 (~bob@5ac0e860.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:52] <GabrialDestruir_> WTF
[15:52] <GabrialDestruir_> My order cost is double what it was
[15:53] <Hourd> ring them?
[15:53] <GabrialDestruir_> Just a few days ago when they first put a hold it was 37ish
[15:53] * hjubal (~hjubal@unaffiliated/hjubal) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:53] <GabrialDestruir_> now they've pulled the money and it's 67
[15:54] * gamegeek (gamegeek@109.131.173.210) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:54] * aaa (~aaa@n058153242100.netvigator.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:54] <GabrialDestruir_> er
[15:54] <GabrialDestruir_> 628
[15:54] <GabrialDestruir_> **
[15:55] <GabrialDestruir_> -.- 62 now. and calling farnell will just cost me more money -sighs-
[15:55] <IT_Sean> email them, then?
[15:55] <gamegeek> hi are there any 3rd party models of Raspberry Pi?
[15:55] <IT_Sean> what do you mean "3rd party"?
[15:55] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:55] * andatche (~andatche@2001:470:91db:2:9886:949f:96d1:95df) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:55] <gordonDrogon> do you mean clones?
[15:56] <gamegeek> since the waiting line is so long arent there other people developing it
[15:56] <IT_Sean> the only way to get a RaspberryPi is via RS / Farnell. there are no 'clones'
[15:56] <ReggieUK> hahahaha
[15:56] <IT_Sean> wow. .... no.
[15:56] <ReggieUK> that's the funniest thing I've heard in weeks
[15:56] <gamegeek> why not
[15:56] <ReggieUK> pi clones
[15:56] <gamegeek> its open source isnt it?
[15:56] <IT_Sean> the hardware is not open source, no.
[15:56] <drazyl> no
[15:56] <gamegeek> wait what?
[15:56] <jaakkos> gordonDrogon: can you point me to the SD patch you were speaking about? also, google finds:
[15:56] <drazyl> and even if it was, it wouldn't help
[15:56] <jaakkos> "In the webinar yesterday, Eben says (at 43:20) that the problem with Class 10 cards is now understood to be a voltage issue, where the RPi uses a fixed 3.3v interface, but class 10 cards use a lower voltage. He said that fixing this will require a hardware change, although there are no definite plans in place for such a change."
[15:57] <gamegeek> its a nonprofit company
[15:57] <drazyl> yes
[15:57] <IT_Sean> gamegeek: the HARDARE is very much closed-source
[15:57] <jaakkos> gordonDrogon: i had much trouble with the 64GB SDXC class 10 if you remember
[15:57] <ReggieUK> jaakkos, that means theoretically, we could mod the pi to use the lower voltages
[15:57] <IT_Sean> non-profit does NOT equal open source
[15:57] <gamegeek> it runs gnu sofware
[15:57] <drazyl> yes
[15:57] <drazyl> so does my pc
[15:57] <ReggieUK> that's software
[15:57] <gamegeek> why de fuck isnt it open source
[15:57] <ReggieUK> mind your language please
[15:57] <IT_Sean> gamegeek: LANGUAGE.
[15:58] <IT_Sean> I have wanted you twice.
[15:58] <gamegeek> sorry
[15:58] <drazyl> do you understand the difference between hardware and software?
[15:58] <IT_Sean> *warned
[15:58] <gamegeek> its just inlogical
[15:58] * Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:58] <drazyl> no its not
[15:58] * cougarten (~q@xdsl-84-44-231-73.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:58] <IT_Sean> The _software_ is open source. the _hardware_ is not.
[15:58] <drazyl> do you have a pc?
[15:58] <cougarten> yay, my RasPi just arrived
[15:58] <gamegeek> i have a mac pc and an arduino
[15:59] <drazyl> ok, do you think apple will release all the hardware information to you to make a clone?
[15:59] <dmsuse> i want a pi
[15:59] * dmsuse cries
[15:59] <cougarten> does tha raspberry show any image via HDMI without an SD card / working OS ?
[15:59] * Charlie (~quassel@64.31.59.70) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:59] <IT_Sean> cougarten: no.
[15:59] <jaakkos> gordonDrogon: perhaps you refer to http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/troubleshooting/sd-card-issues-dmesg-log-errors/#p75500
[15:59] <drazyl> do you think apple's suppliers will release all *their* hardware information for the parts they sell to apple
[15:59] <gamegeek> apple is a profit company
[15:59] <drazyl> etc
[15:59] <drazyl> etc
[15:59] <jaakkos> so, git
[15:59] <ReggieUK> gamegeek, so is broadcom
[15:59] <drazyl> apple use an open source base os
[16:00] <cougarten> IT_Sean, ah good, so maybe the image writing to my SD just failed. right?
[16:00] <gamegeek> my pc consists out of different company's hardware, and my arduino is open source
[16:00] * Charlie is now known as Guest56480
[16:00] <IT_Sean> gamegeek: the hardare is very much closed source. Even if you somehow got the schemtatics, you would not be able to source the SoC to build your own
[16:00] <rm> gamegeek, they chose to use a ready-made SoC from Broadcom which is not open-source
[16:00] <rm> note, not made for them
[16:00] <gamegeek> apple dusent use a open souce os
[16:00] <rm> but for mobile phones and media players and the like
[16:00] <drazyl> gamegeek yes they do
[16:00] <gamegeek> it runs unix under the hood but the rest is there own stuff
[16:00] <dmsuse> drazyl: unix is not open source :P
[16:01] <drazyl> hence "base os"
[16:01] <drazyl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29
[16:02] <GabrialDestruir_> I hate when companies put a hold on money for one amount then draw another -.-
[16:02] <ReggieUK> irrelevant really, pi is not fully open source, it uses open source software, some (most) of the driver code is open gpu and boot process is locked down to what information broadcom give rpf and rpf give to us
[16:02] <GabrialDestruir_> Especially if you don't have the bigger amount in the account and you have to pay overage fees.
[16:02] <GabrialDestruir_> -.-
[16:02] <ReggieUK> and to top that, I don't think you can just go and order the bcm chip
[16:03] <gamegeek> oke is there a way to make a oficial rasbary then as anoter company
[16:03] <drazyl> oh, you could, after an NDA and a lot of money
[16:03] <Hourd> haha
[16:03] <drazyl> gamegeek if you have a few million to invest and some time to wait
[16:03] * Hourd is amused
[16:03] <ReggieUK> it's not like you'll be popping onto mouser to order a chip though :D
[16:03] <gamegeek> oke u want to know my plan?
[16:04] <drazyl> gamegeek and then your's will still be no cheaper
[16:04] <ReggieUK> it'll likely be more expensive
[16:04] <aditsu_with_pi> I think the board design is opensource, the chips are not
[16:04] <ReggieUK> as the rpf got a very good price break
[16:04] <gamegeek> its not about cheaper its about geting it to the masses
[16:04] <ReggieUK> they're getting them to the masses
[16:04] <drazyl> so you think starting up later with less resource will somehow make it quicker
[16:04] <Hourd> gamegeek: it will get to the masses after they have their backlog sorted
[16:04] <gamegeek> verry verry slowly
[16:05] <drazyl> I want a pony!
[16:05] <Hourd> ponies!
[16:05] <ReggieUK> considering they did a 10k batch, and are wading through the rest of the orders as we speak, it's not that slow, given that they've had to go through thorough CE and FCC testing
[16:06] <ReggieUK> so they don't burn people in their beds
[16:06] <Hourd> but warmth!
[16:06] <Hourd> added bonus
[16:06] <gamegeek> oke
[16:06] <ReggieUK> by the time you've got your board design done gamegeek, they'll have fulfilled their orders :D
[16:06] <Hourd> looooong before
[16:06] <gamegeek> yea i get you
[16:06] <drazyl> unless a pony helps you
[16:07] <ReggieUK> should be able to get it done in eagle free version
[16:07] <ReggieUK> oh wait, does it do multi-layers?
[16:07] <ReggieUK> more than 2 sides?
[16:07] * ajtag (~ajtag@cpc2-lee210-2-0-cust9.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:07] <gamegeek> btw what os is most used on it?
[16:07] <drazyl> windows 8 arm edition
[16:07] <gamegeek> shut up
[16:07] <ReggieUK> seriously
[16:08] <GabrialDestruir_> Is paying nearly double shipping for something from export farnell sound "right"?
[16:08] <drazyl> think debian mostly
[16:08] <IT_Sean> Linux. Debian is the Official distro.
[16:08] <gamegeek> oke
[16:08] <IT_Sean> GabrialDestruir_: not to me.
[16:08] <ReggieUK> GabrialDestruir_, farnell and shipping are not good bedfellows depending how the order has gone
[16:08] <ReggieUK> I Would query it with them
[16:08] <cougarten> IT_Sean, Debian if tho official for now, right? I think they wanted to switch later
[16:08] <ReggieUK> just in case
[16:08] <gamegeek> and the main program languages are?
[16:08] * aergus (~aergus@88.255.245.252) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:09] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:09] <drazyl> python officially
[16:09] <drazyl> but anything else you want to install
[16:09] <cougarten> gamegeek, whatever you want, but python is intended, riht
[16:09] <cougarten> right
[16:09] <ReggieUK> I'm not sure whether they want to switch later on or there will just be many flavours of linux distro available to it
[16:09] <gamegeek> wait realy?
[16:09] * ajtag (~ajtag@cpc2-lee210-2-0-cust9.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:09] <GabrialDestruir_> Well I'm about to ship off an email and hopefully get a reply soon, last time I tried emailing them regarding anything I got bupkis
[16:09] <gamegeek> why pyrthon
[16:09] <dmsuse> aslong as windows will never be supported ill be happy :D
[16:09] * Matthew is now known as Guest66580
[16:09] <Hourd> whats wrong with python?
[16:09] <drazyl> because that is what the foundation want
[16:09] <drazyl> have you read any of the official website?
[16:09] <GabrialDestruir_> SUPPORT WINDOWS!
[16:10] <GabrialDestruir_> Destroy the PI with their facist propaganda!
[16:10] <gamegeek> nothing wrong with it its just... not using the hardware to its full potential
[16:10] <Hourd> gamegeek: do you know what the intended use for the raspberry pi is?
[16:10] <ReggieUK> there's nothing wrong with python, just like there's nothing wrong with c/c++
[16:10] <gamegeek> leurning kids program?
[16:10] <drazyl> gamegeek - what would you chosse?
[16:10] <cougarten> what happned to fedora?
[16:10] <Hourd> i'll asume that means teaching children how to program
[16:10] <gamegeek> i wood go for lua
[16:10] <drazyl> cougarten think there are teething problems with it
[16:11] <dmsuse> why would anyone want fedora?
[16:11] <ReggieUK> I don't see why any language should be particularly difficult for kids to learn
[16:11] <gamegeek> assambly
[16:11] <ReggieUK> I think the issues people see are self created, like seeing the manual for some languages is enough to put a lot of people off
[16:12] <drazyl> can;t really see that lua is much different from python or any of the current trendy languages
[16:12] <ReggieUK> but give them a decent grounding in core concepts and you can apply most of it to *any* programming language
[16:12] <Hourd> hehe love it, 'trendy' languages
[16:12] <cougarten> yay, lift-off! i see a raspberry on my monitor
[16:12] <gamegeek> wel lua is more un program based like u dont have to initlize anything
[16:12] <drazyl> what on earth does that mean
[16:13] <aditsu_with_pi> cougarten: hi-five
[16:13] * cougarten smack
[16:13] <gamegeek> i see python is better but for like core stuff isnt like c/c++/obj-c better?
[16:13] <ReggieUK> what ever tool is suitable for the job is the best language
[16:13] <gamegeek> can this thing even compile?
[16:13] <drazyl> gamegeek yes, but not necessarily for education purposes
[16:13] <Hourd> i think they wanted to go with an interpreted language so that the children can see their changes faster and keep them interested
[16:13] <drazyl> gamegeek compilation is irrelevant for education
[16:14] <gamegeek> im from a game developer perspective
[16:14] <drazyl> gamegeek fine, but you're confusing your needs with the foundations
[16:14] * corbomite (corbomite@c-98-235-33-192.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:14] <gamegeek> im asking if it can comple idk gcc is it these days
[16:14] <ReggieUK> but the answer is, yes it can compile stuff but it's a 700mhz arm so you might not want to wait around for it if you've got a real PC idling :D
[16:14] <Hourd> yes it can compile
[16:14] <drazyl> I am a C/C++ dinosaur, but doesn't mean python isn't the right choice for them
[16:15] <drazyl> gamegeek you can use anything you choose to install
[16:15] <drazyl> it's a computer running Linux
[16:15] <aditsu_with_pi> gamegeek: are you asking about python or the Pi?
[16:15] <ReggieUK> imho I think education should start with the core concepts of programming, not associated with any particular language
[16:15] <Hourd> its just a small, low power, low spec, comupter running linux :P
[16:15] <ReggieUK> pseudocode
[16:15] <drazyl> ReggieUK yup, but you need some sort of practical to cement the knowledge
[16:16] <drazyl> book learning on its own is rubbish
[16:16] <ReggieUK> write down the steps it takes to make 6 cups of tea
[16:16] <Hourd> personaly i think python is a good choice as you can just fire things out pretty quickly and it does teach the fundementals
[16:16] <drazyl> 1. ask junior to make tea. 2. kick him as a reminder. 3. wait
[16:16] <ReggieUK> write down the steps it takes to make 6 cups of tea, yourself
[16:17] <drazyl> I did write it myself!
[16:17] <ReggieUK> :D
[16:17] <Hourd> and he did it in 3 steps
[16:17] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:18] * ChrisLenz (~ChrisLenz@c-24-14-224-41.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:18] <ReggieUK> but you see what I'm getting at, you could write the steps out, then you could actually try to make tea following the steps
[16:19] <SBeans> then you could raise bugs
[16:19] * aergus (~aergus@88.255.245.252) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:19] <SBeans> like forgot to take the lid off the sugar
[16:19] <SBeans> resulting in, bent spoon
[16:19] <Davespice> hu guys, quick one - I know I asked this a few weeks ago but I've forgotten. What is good tool to take screen shots on Debain / LXDE for the Pi?
[16:19] <SBeans> and of course you can talk about granulaity
[16:19] <ReggieUK> :)
[16:20] <SBeans> Davespice: Camera
[16:20] <SBeans> ;)
[16:20] <ReggieUK> none of it would require a compiler or a real language (except english etc.)
[16:20] <aditsu_with_pi> Davespice: gimp is pretty good
[16:20] <ReggieUK> but you get introduced to all sorts of concepts
[16:21] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-124-184-93-111.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:21] <GabrialDestruir_> What would be a good subject for this email?
[16:22] <drazyl> "Give me my money you thieving..."
[16:22] <ReggieUK> 'farnell, you robbers, what's with the shipping charges?'
[16:22] * wjoe (~joe@2001:41d0:2:7d6a::1) has left #raspberrypi
[16:22] <IT_Sean> "Give me my raspi @ the agreed price you wankerclamps!"
[16:22] * wjoe (~joe@2001:41d0:2:7d6a::1) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:22] <ReggieUK> language IT_Sean
[16:22] <aditsu_with_pi> "I liek mudkipz"
[16:22] <ReggieUK> :)
[16:22] * IT_Sean sighs
[16:22] <IT_Sean> fine...
[16:22] <drazyl> "you made my pony sad"
[16:23] <GabrialDestruir_> I went with the more friendly
[16:23] <IT_Sean> "Why price go up!?"
[16:23] <GabrialDestruir_> "Shipping Charges on top of Shipping Charges"
[16:23] <IT_Sean> they will never read it unless you swear at them.
[16:23] <IT_Sean> :p
[16:23] <drazyl> "i can haz pi but not lol @ prices :("
[16:24] <GabrialDestruir_> That'll be my next attempt.
[16:24] <aditsu_with_pi> oh crap.. write-error on swap-device :(
[16:24] <Hourd> i can't use my pi until i get home =[
[16:25] <aditsu_with_pi> read-error too
[16:25] <gordonDrogon> remove swap device.
[16:25] <aditsu_with_pi> looks like this usb drive is messed up
[16:25] <drazyl> insert coin to contine?
[16:25] <ReggieUK> is this on a hdd?
[16:25] <GabrialDestruir_> Because I can only assume.... that even if they if they are using the new pricing which is $47 with shipping already included
[16:25] <ReggieUK> or a usb stick?
[16:25] <GabrialDestruir_> That local state taxes and such isn't going to be 15 dollars
[16:25] <aditsu_with_pi> usb stick
[16:25] <ReggieUK> why are you putting swap on a usb stick?
[16:26] <aditsu_with_pi> because it's faster than the card
[16:26] <gordonDrogon> why even use swap...
[16:26] <GabrialDestruir_> That would assume....
[16:26] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:26] <GabrialDestruir_> a 31% tax
[16:26] <aditsu_with_pi> because not enough memory :p
[16:26] <GabrialDestruir_> which I know the state of California does not have
[16:26] <gordonDrogon> what are you doing that needs it?
[16:27] <ReggieUK> swap on sd is bad, can't see it being better on a usb flash device
[16:27] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:27] <aditsu_with_pi> I'd tell you but you'd murder me
[16:27] <GabrialDestruir_> It's minecraft isn't it?
[16:27] <GabrialDestruir_> You're using t he swap to play minecraft!
[16:27] <aditsu_with_pi> lol
[16:27] <gordonDrogon> you shouldn't need swap for most 'casual' stuff... even running up X and doing some simple compiles.
[16:28] <GabrialDestruir_> -waves shame finger-
[16:28] <gordonDrogon> big compiles will be ok without X.
[16:29] <gordonDrogon> hm. late lunchtime. laters.
[16:29] <aditsu_with_pi> ReggieUK: at the very very least, it can use both in parallel
[16:29] <GabrialDestruir_> The only way I could see them hitting the 15 dollar extra mark
[16:29] <GabrialDestruir_> is if they sent it next day airmail or something
[16:29] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:29] <GabrialDestruir_> But then I shouldn't have to pay for that if I have no choice in the shipping, right?
[16:30] * Guest66580 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[16:30] <GabrialDestruir_> Especially since shipping is suppose to be included?
[16:30] * jmontleon (~jmontleo@pool-98-118-83-7.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:31] * Hourd wants to play minecraft on his pi
[16:32] * IT_Sean want's to play minecraft, but can't, as he is at wrok.
[16:32] <IT_Sean> *work
[16:32] <Hourd> same
[16:32] <gamegeek> wait can u play mc on pi?
[16:32] <Hourd> and damn being busy against my will this evening, my pi will be sat there all alone....
[16:33] <IT_Sean> :(
[16:33] <IT_Sean> Send it to me. I'll put it to good use.
[16:33] <aditsu_with_pi> hmm actually.. is the usb stick b0rked, or is the Pi unable to access it properly? (power issues?)
[16:34] <GabrialDestruir_> Try using it on a real puter
[16:34] <GabrialDestruir_> and by real I mean
[16:34] <aditsu_with_pi> I tried another stick, it can't even access it
[16:34] <GabrialDestruir_> a normal one
[16:34] <GabrialDestruir_> Then I'd say it's your Pi
[16:34] <GabrialDestruir_> use a powered hub?
[16:35] <aditsu_with_pi> I'm powering it from my desktop computer, may I should try an AC adapter
[16:35] * GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:35] <Hourd> your powering the pi from your desktop?
[16:35] <GabrialDestruir_> That should make the difference.
[16:35] <aditsu_with_pi> yeah
[16:35] <Hourd> yeah use a bigger supply
[16:36] <GabrialDestruir_> A PC can only output 5V or 500mA or w/e
[16:36] <cougarten> damn, i broke my picture frame (which i bought just for the pi)
[16:36] <GabrialDestruir_> A b board using both USB and ethernet needs closer to 700mA
[16:36] <cougarten> i mean, an digital LCD one
[16:37] <GabrialDestruir_> Anyways.
[16:37] <Hourd> for the pi screen?
[16:37] <nid0> it depends on the desktop, many usb outputs can provide plenty of power
[16:37] <GabrialDestruir_> Bbl I have to go do finals now
[16:37] <haltdef> it's here :o
[16:37] <nid0> my pi's running with ethernet, wifi, and a backlit keyboard powered by my desktop
[16:37] <cougarten> Hourd, i hoped for a terminal at least. the size was perfect
[16:37] <Hourd> haltdef: wooooo \o/
[16:37] <Hourd> cougarten: hehe and strap the pic to the back?
[16:37] <Hourd> *pi
[16:38] <cougarten> Hourd, right :) something like that
[16:39] <cougarten> Hourd, or maybe just a webpage screenshot reloading every now and than showing the train runs and weather
[16:39] <Hourd> but, thats a waste of a pi...
[16:40] <cougarten> haha, it would be a server too
[16:40] <Hourd> i should hope so :P
[16:40] <cougarten> but as it was lying in the hallway next to the router anyway...
[16:41] <Hourd> hehe
[16:41] <cougarten> but first i need to find a qwerty keyboard :)
[16:41] <aditsu_with_pi> 1A phone adapter, that should work :)
[16:44] <IT_Sean> tha'll work
[16:44] <gamegeek> can u resel a respberry?
[16:45] <Hourd> on ebay
[16:46] <IT_Sean> gamegeek: you reboot it by unplugging it and plugging it back in
[16:46] <Veryevil> or typing sudo reboot
[16:46] <gamegeek> i mean as repakige it sell it wirh case?
[16:47] <gamegeek> or in a kit
[16:47] <Hourd> gamegeek: i asume you are not english?
[16:47] <gamegeek> sorry
[16:48] <Hourd> norwegian?
[16:48] <gamegeek> belgian
[16:48] <Hourd> ah right
[16:49] <Hourd> there are many on ebay
[16:49] <gamegeek> any on a reaseneble price?
[16:49] * danfoshizzle (danfoshizz@02db2b29.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[16:51] * mpthompson (~IceChat77@c-50-131-39-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:52] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:52] * Matthew (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:52] * Matthew is now known as Guest5931
[16:53] <gamegeek> EUR 142,81 witout shiping is a bit over priced
[16:53] * cosh (~cosh@gateway/tor-sasl/ryld) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[16:54] <Hourd> nope
[16:55] * GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:55] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:55] <Hourd> either farnel, RS or ebay
[16:55] <nid0> ??100 ish seems to be about the ebay going rate
[16:55] <gamegeek> fuck that
[16:55] <gamegeek> sorry
[16:56] <Hourd> seems like you will not be satisfied
[16:56] <drazyl> he wants a 3rd party source that is cheaper than a charity
[16:56] <drazyl> :)
[16:57] <Hourd> yeah i've been reading. i have to say i am quite amused by it
[16:57] <Hourd> its getting into the region of people wanting them to be ??25 windows gaming machines
[16:57] <gamegeek> no i want a good divice that has a larg fan base, where i can sel my games on
[16:58] <drazyl> ps3
[16:58] <Hourd> then not raspberry pi
[16:58] <rm> weren't you the one going on about how it's BAAAD that it's not open-source
[16:58] <rm> and now you talk about selling games, proprietary I assume
[16:58] <gamegeek> i didt say bad i say inlogical
[16:58] <rm> double standard?
[16:59] * mdavey (~chatzilla@visitor-net.aminocom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:59] <gamegeek> since there base objective is the same as arduino's
[16:59] <Hourd> it is?
[16:59] <gamegeek> kinda
[16:59] <aditsu_with_pi> education == robots?
[16:59] <TopherBrink> news to them
[16:59] <drazyl> "why de <censored> isnt it open source"
[16:59] <drazyl> sounds like you were saying it's bad
[16:59] <Hourd> i believe rpf want to revive british computing in academia
[17:00] <TopherBrink> ^this.
[17:00] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:00] <Hourd> which i am all for (being british and in academia)
[17:00] * mdavey (~chatzilla@mail.aminocom.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:00] * gordonDrogon waves.
[17:00] <gamegeek> its not logical if its a non profit company thye usualy do stuff like share there stuff, we cant even use the camera and derect display port
[17:00] <cougarten> does anyone use a desktop enviroment, and if so, which?
[17:01] <drazyl> the point is to encourage kiddies to learn about computer technology. not about software packages
[17:01] <drazyl> gamegeek RPF do not own the SoC it uses
[17:01] * gordonDrogon uses a desktop environment configured as a window manager.
[17:01] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:02] * CcSsNET uses a windowmanager with other apps utilized as a desktop
[17:02] <drazyl> they want to provide a small, cheap computer that has an open software environment plus some hardware interfacing capability
[17:02] <Hourd> gamegeek: they built a decent small linux platform at as little cost as they could and that means using components they don't have the ability to open up
[17:02] * mkopack (~mkopack@108.106.210.127) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:02] <drazyl> it meets all that, being able to reprogram the GPU and blob is irrelevant to their aims
[17:02] * Guest5931 (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:02] <CcSsNET> blob doesnt sound reasuring. surely its not a real blob?
[17:02] <cougarten> CcSsNET, so which window manager?
[17:02] <drazyl> anyone who really can't accept that is free to produce something more open
[17:03] <CcSsNET> cougarten: fluxbox :)
[17:03] <gamegeek> u sure there a non profit company this thing sounds vagly similar to idk apple
[17:03] <drazyl> BLOB - Binary Large OBject
[17:03] <cougarten> CcSsNET, ok, that was my first thought too :)
[17:03] <Hourd> gamegeek: how is it similar to apple?
[17:03] <drazyl> gamegeekl you're an idiot
[17:03] <TopherBrink> apple.........aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhahahahahahahaha
[17:03] <CcSsNET> ah ok. when i see blob i think of ic with a blob of resin over it
[17:03] <cougarten> all my internets now belong to pi. cya arround :)
[17:04] * gabriel9 (~quassel@92.241.143.37) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:04] <TopherBrink> lets see... stupidly expensive? nope. generic hardware overpriced? nope. silly "trendy" casing? nope....
[17:04] <CcSsNET> patent trolling... nope?
[17:04] <CcSsNET> hehe
[17:04] <TopherBrink> yeah not seeing the apple
[17:05] <drazyl> fruit-based logo? yes
[17:05] <aditsu_with_pi> horrible OS for dumb users? no :p
[17:05] <drazyl> IT'S THE SAME!!!!!1111!!!
[17:05] <mpthompson> gamegeek you are acting like child who is upset the world doesn't revolve around their own whims and desires. A lot of that going around these days.
[17:05] <TopherBrink> ZOMG YOU'RE RIGHT
[17:05] <gamegeek> closed system
[17:05] <Hourd> drazyl: OMG the CONSPIRACY!
[17:05] <drazyl> it's not closed you idiot
[17:05] <Hourd> closed system...lol
[17:05] <drazyl> kindly go and troll elsewhere
[17:05] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:05] <TopherBrink> its so closed i can put my own OS and programs onto it
[17:05] <gamegeek> then give me the plans of the death star
[17:05] <TopherBrink> those... scum?
[17:06] <CcSsNET> cougarten: http://atccss.net/site/screenshot.png
[17:06] <Hourd> TopherBrink: i know right? they should be shot for their crimes
[17:06] <TopherBrink> damn right
[17:07] <TopherBrink> this thing is clearly an apple clone in every way except all the ways that are actually real... um... damn...
[17:07] <Hourd> dammit the conspiracy is falling apart, QUICK MAKE SOMETHING UP!
[17:07] <CcSsNET> sporks
[17:07] * Liiiink (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:07] <Hourd> SPORKS!!!!
[17:08] <gamegeek> which chip is in it anyway?
[17:08] <drazyl> urm, Eben is an anagram of been, which is like bean, which is like coffee, which is like java, which is owned by Oracle PROPRIETARY!!!!
[17:08] <mpthompson> Ahh, sporks are where it's at...
[17:08] <Hourd> drazyl: niiiice
[17:08] <TopherBrink> now i'm going to open this macbook (fictional) and PLAY WITH THE GPIO HEA... hang on, damn it again.
[17:08] <drazyl> OMG!!! wherez my tin foilz!!!
[17:09] * cougarten (~q@xdsl-84-44-231-73.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:09] <drazyl> A PONY IZ LAFFINF AT EM
[17:09] <CcSsNET> drazyl: you mean copper mesh cage?
[17:09] <mpthompson> drazyl, the men in black have been dispatched to the reported location of your IP address
[17:09] <Hourd> drazyl: its almost at the point of "I'mma chargin mah lazorz!!"
[17:09] * TopherBrink can hear a (presumably unmarked) black helicopter hovering nearby already
[17:09] * IT_Sean wants to break this up, but doesn't have the heart, as it looks like you are all having way too much fun. :p
[17:10] <CcSsNET> IT_Sean: ++
[17:10] <TopherBrink> we took absurdity and made it absurdier
[17:10] <drazyl> so gamegeek, you want to write games on your mac to sell to a large pre-made games market, and you think the *rpf* is like apple
[17:10] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5693.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:10] <gamegeek> no im not saying thaty
[17:10] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[17:10] <drazyl> teh helocopterz is nto OPEN SOURZ!!!
[17:11] <gamegeek> im just looking to expand my game platforms
[17:11] <Hourd> oh drazyl, you so crazy :)
[17:11] <CcSsNET> gamegeek: well if you decide to release for rpi, consider the open pandora also
[17:11] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:11] <gamegeek> and this is not just a linux, it needs more atention
[17:12] <gamegeek> yea i know but pandora bitch about free emulators
[17:12] * MikeJ1971_ (~MikeJ1971@ilrt-it005663.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:12] <CcSsNET> lol
[17:12] <IT_Sean> gamegeek: language, please. I've asked you three times now to keep it clean.
[17:12] <gordonDrogon> Hm. buy it now's now under ?100 on ebay.
[17:12] <CcSsNET> s/b*tch/complain/g
[17:13] <gamegeek> im sorry i leurn english from tv
[17:13] <CcSsNET> lol
[17:13] <Hourd> this channel not have badwords enabled?
[17:13] * Liiiink (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[17:14] <drazyl> Hourd lots of them, oh you mean to *block* them :)
[17:14] <TopherBrink> badwords_use=0
[17:14] * fabrice1 (~fabrice@66.80.220.195) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:14] <CcSsNET> there are closed source games released for gnu/linux systems gamegeek, the biggest issue you will run into legally is making sure you dont link a gpl library into your proprietary code
[17:15] <CcSsNET> lgpl would be ok though
[17:15] * alyosha_sql (~a@88.200.57.130) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:15] <gamegeek> an little poll here wood u guys buy games/software divice
[17:15] <gamegeek> we write alot from scratch
[17:15] <CcSsNET> i might depending what it is
[17:15] <gordonDrogon> Who are 'we' ?
[17:15] <drazyl> show us an example
[17:15] <gamegeek> i got a puzzle game and a basic 3D software
[17:16] <aditsu_with_pi> I wouldn't buy any game
[17:16] <gordonDrogon> sounds good. any demos?
[17:16] <gamegeek> ios developing
[17:16] <gamegeek> atm
[17:16] <CcSsNET> got a website?
[17:16] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca5693.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:16] <gordonDrogon> I don't own an ios device - never will, but it would still be nice to see screenshots, etc.
[17:16] <gamegeek> nope
[17:16] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-09.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[17:16] <Hourd> no website?
[17:16] <gordonDrogon> so not even a website or a screenshot?
[17:16] <CcSsNET> gamegeek: i find it hard to sell games without a site ;)
[17:17] <gamegeek> im still a student and working on a cryengine game
[17:17] <Hourd> then how do you get people interested in your stuff?
[17:17] <Hourd> i find it hard to sell games without any media at all
[17:17] <gamegeek> its just a question if there is potential
[17:17] <aditsu_with_pi> by trolling on irc, obviously :)
[17:17] <Hourd> aditsu_with_pi: good strategy
[17:17] <drazyl> I sell games by complaining bitterly about the hardware
[17:18] <Hourd> me too, i mean the eggbox is a bit rubbish and too much like pear for my liking
[17:18] <CcSsNET> i sell games by listing the cds i no longer want on ebay
[17:18] * CcSsNET points at quake3, ut2k4, few others
[17:18] <drazyl> sounds way too practical
[17:18] <gamegeek> ;(
[17:19] <drazyl> not sure if the pi will make a great target game platform tho
[17:19] <mpthompson> gamegeek, you should have some patience and just see how the RPi market develops over the coming year.
[17:20] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:20] <gamegeek> wel i beter start now right?
[17:20] <mpthompson> Who knows if it will be a raging success, a dismal failure or (most likely) somewhere in between?
[17:20] <drazyl> it's a bit underpowered for "serious" games, and doesn't have the necessary hardware for casual games (controllers. touch etc)
[17:20] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:20] <Hourd> popcap style games
[17:20] <CcSsNET> drazyl: yea thats why i mentioned the pandora to him
[17:21] <CcSsNET> which i own and love/hate
[17:21] <gamegeek> pandora is a emulator
[17:21] <drazyl> Hourd: oooh yes, another chance to buy plants vs zombies
[17:21] <CcSsNET> no
[17:21] <mpthompson> gamegeek, you would probably get a lot of mileage and support from the RPi foundation if you created things that help kids learn how to create their own games. I believe that is where the action will be with the RPi.
[17:21] <gamegeek> how many games did u buy on that thing?
[17:21] <CcSsNET> pandora is an open project like this one, although its targeting gamers that want to use emulators its got far more then that as a goal
[17:21] <Hourd> drazyl: hell yeah
[17:22] <gamegeek> oke so im making game engines?
[17:22] <CcSsNET> gamegeek: i dont use it for games
[17:23] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:23] <gamegeek> btw any of u into linux gui's?
[17:23] <gamegeek> dev
[17:23] <CcSsNET> gamegeek: i got the pandora personally because i wanted a truely open linux handheld. which it is
[17:23] <CcSsNET> gamegeek: me somewhat
[17:23] <Hourd> CcSsNET: i do fancy a pandora
[17:23] <CcSsNET> Hourd: dont buy a used one
[17:24] <CcSsNET> less memory then current production units
[17:24] <gamegeek> CcSsNET: ever used blender 3D?
[17:24] <CcSsNET> no thats not really gui related imho
[17:24] <Hourd> csyeah something like that i would only get a new one
[17:25] * Veryevil (~Veryevil@83.166.186.218) Quit ()
[17:25] <gordonDrogon> I've typed in a couple of very old BASIC games recently - just for a bit of fun :)
[17:25] <gordonDrogon> really very old.
[17:25] <gordonDrogon> text only :)
[17:25] <Hourd> the king of games formats
[17:25] <CcSsNET> gamegeek: thats CG related
[17:25] <gamegeek> yea but i mean the gui of blender
[17:27] * drazyl considers a text based version of angry birds
[17:27] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:27] <IT_Sean> O_o
[17:27] <drazyl> "fire bird at angle 25.4 velocity 23"
[17:27] <CcSsNET> hmm i think you need to explore your options gamegeek heres a quick summary of linux gui development paths: wxWidgets(oldest), qt4(biggest), gtk+(most common), ecere ide(bsd licensed), and some relivant apps: qdevelop, qtcreator, codeblocks(wxwidgets), glade(gtk)
[17:27] <IT_Sean> fling bird force=10 angle=35
[17:28] <gamegeek> ascii angry birds is posible
[17:28] <gordonDrogon> heh that's like the old game: Schmoo.
[17:28] <drazyl> "you git one green pig and 3 walls, a wall collapsed and hit another green pig"
[17:28] <drazyl> gamegeek not ascii, text mode
[17:28] <IT_Sean> drazyl: i would play the [censored] out of that! :D
[17:28] <drazyl> "describe map"
[17:28] <gordonDrogon> http://www.atariarchives.org/morebasicgames/showpage.php?page=141
[17:29] <drazyl> "you have 2 birds left, there are 4 pigs on the map, 2 floors and 7 columns remaining"
[17:29] <Hourd> |_O||o_____|O||____0
[17:29] * Syliss (~Syliss@108.75.47.45) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] * si (~si@cpc5-wolv6-0-0-cust122.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] * si (~si@cpc5-wolv6-0-0-cust122.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Changing host)
[17:30] * si (~si@unaffiliated/siofwolves) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> drazyl: I would really, really, really like that option with current AB. (type in angle)
[17:30] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> I hate that it's essentially impossible to use low power shots too
[17:31] <CcSsNET> gamegeek: did that above help at all? thats what is relivant to gui development, although a minimal list
[17:33] <TopherBrink> ascii birds, the new original innovative game coming soon to your console-terminal.
[17:33] <gordonDrogon> curses...
[17:33] <mpthompson> I have Aho's "BASIC Computer Games" and "More BASIC Computer Games" on my bookshelf right next to me. They are probably my oldest computer books.
[17:33] <CcSsNET> swears...
[17:33] <TopherBrink> i have a spectrum +3 manual under my netbook, do i win
[17:33] <fALSO> "programming adventures on your zx spectrum"
[17:33] <gordonDrogon> mpthompson, get a BASIC to run them in then: http://unicorn.drogon.net/rtb/rtb-arm ;-)
[17:33] <TopherBrink> (best manual EVER)
[17:34] <CcSsNET> mpthompson: my oldest book is motif programming
[17:34] <CcSsNET> haha
[17:34] <drazyl> I have an original "sorry your zx81 is delayed" note from Sinclair
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> drazyl: handwritten?
[17:34] <gordonDrogon> Best of creative computing volumes 1 & 3 (I loaned 3 and never got it back )-:
[17:34] <TopherBrink> i have two copies of Your Spectrum around somewhere
[17:34] <drazyl> not that I recall
[17:34] <drazyl> but I also have the original receipt etc
[17:34] <gordonDrogon> vol 1 was printed in 76.
[17:35] <TopherBrink> which of course gave us the best magazine of all time, your sinclair
[17:35] <mpthompson> I was dissapointed that many of those games required Basic statements that were not in MBasic on my TRS-80 Color Computer. I did get many of them running though.
[17:35] <fALSO> nice, MOTIF
[17:35] <fALSO> hehehe
[17:35] <CcSsNET> fALSO: :)
[17:35] * _sundar_ (~sundar@110.234.156.82) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:35] <drazyl> and an original spectrum manual
[17:36] <CcSsNET> oki lied, my oldest book is irelivant to topic, but its titled the mother earth news: handbook of homemade power
[17:36] <gordonDrogon> I have a rather battered original apple II manual - the 'red book' - '78.
[17:36] * rredd4 (~jb@71-80-200-24.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:36] <CcSsNET> 1974 :)
[17:36] * nemo (nemo@c-68-50-78-21.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:37] <rredd4> it it true that the pi doen not do flash and java yet?
[17:37] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: but its not th eugly red book that won't fit on a shelf"
[17:37] <gordonDrogon> no-one has noticed/commended on the book lurking in this shot: http://unicorn.drogon.net/mess3.jpg
[17:37] <rredd4> *does
[17:37] <nemo> Am I the only one who enjoys looking at stuff like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_4004 , compare the Pi to it, and marvel at how things have changed in my lifetime?
[17:37] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:37] <CcSsNET> why on earth would you intentionally put either of those on raspberrpi rredd4
[17:37] * alyosha_sql (~a@88.200.57.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:37] <gordonDrogon> Hourd, fits on my bookshelf - on its side...
[17:37] <drazyl> it should do java (worked in the emulator)
[17:38] <Hourd> gordonDrogon: nvm i was making a terrible 'hackers' reference
[17:38] <rredd4> to allow my child to go to her websites
[17:38] <drazyl> rredd4 better off using a pc
[17:38] <gordonDrogon> Hourd, obviously missed that then...
[17:38] <drazyl> pi may well struggle with modern web-sites, I know my desktop does :)
[17:38] <CcSsNET> lol
[17:39] <Hourd> yeah some websites are kind of heavy
[17:39] <CcSsNET> kind of heavy?
[17:39] <TopherBrink> those 4-ton websites render badly
[17:39] <CcSsNET> ive seen some corporate sites branch off to 15 other sub content urls to load a front page
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> np: 'He ain't heavy, he's my b3ta.
[17:40] <CcSsNET> shame on imature web coders :)
[17:40] * nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[17:40] <Hourd> by heavy i mean a large amount of overhead and lots going on in the browser
[17:40] <nemo> CcSsNET: hitting other urls for CSS/JS is more of a performance hit for network IO
[17:40] <nemo> CcSsNET: not so much an issue of processor
[17:40] <drazyl> CsSsNet yeah, everyone knows your front page should just load a flash object with all the content in it
[17:40] <CcSsNET> ah yea but still relivant
[17:40] * nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] <nemo> vaguely
[17:41] <CcSsNET> drazyl: precisely, 1 app to rule them all
[17:42] <dmsuse> flash is dead
[17:42] <CcSsNET> it will be soon
[17:42] <drazyl> ahhhhh-aahhhhh
[17:42] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/books.jpg
[17:42] <CcSsNET> how to tell: they are now trying to autoupdate themselfs
[17:42] * gordonDrogon 's alive...
[17:42] <fALSO> lol with spock
[17:42] <drazyl> :)
[17:42] <fALSO> you won gordondrogon LOL
[17:43] * rredd4 (~jb@71-80-200-24.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:43] <nemo> CcSsNET: google.com front page loads 7 remote resources in CSS alone - and that's not counting the javascript.
[17:43] <nemo> there are quite a few more in the javascript
[17:43] <CcSsNET> gordonDrogon: won. definately older then i am those books
[17:43] <gordonDrogon> not quite as old as me though...
[17:43] <nemo> CcSsNET: of course, now that google rolled out SPDY, that doesn't matter too much for Firefox and Chrome
[17:43] <CcSsNET> nemo: yea precisely. my site is more effeicent then google haha
[17:44] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:44] <nemo> CcSsNET: eh. for IE :-p
[17:44] * L337hium (~ed@88.130.137.124) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[17:44] <CcSsNET> and it passes xhtml/css which google doesnt
[17:44] <gordonDrogon> I have a real, working Mk14 too... http://unicorn.drogon.net/stuff/mk14.jpg
[17:44] <CcSsNET> but yea they are doing their own thing
[17:44] <gordonDrogon> There is a computer with 256 bytes of RAM.
[17:45] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:45] <nemo> gordonDrogon: that's awesome
[17:45] <CcSsNET> gordonDrogon: i am related to someone that has been collecting pc's since the begining. i had to force him to get rid of anything pentium or newer
[17:45] <CcSsNET> lol
[17:45] <gordonDrogon> anything 'x86' isn't old at all...
[17:45] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:46] <drazyl> that reminds me of this http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/2695/Sinclair-Cambridge-Programmable-Calculator/
[17:46] <nemo> this spring I'm going to start clearing out the boxes and boxes of computers
[17:46] <CcSsNET> precisely
[17:46] <fALSO> awesome gordondrogon
[17:46] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/lode.jpg - a working Apple II.
[17:46] <CcSsNET> which is why i forced him to get rid of all that crud
[17:46] <fALSO> the oldest I have
[17:46] <fALSO> is a SGI O2
[17:46] <gordonDrogon> Ah, I lusted after one of those calculators too.
[17:46] <nemo> hm. I wonder how many of those MK14s you'd need to be comparable to a Pi
[17:46] * L337hium (~ed@i5E86D93B.versanet.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:47] <drazyl> I had one, but long after they came out
[17:47] <gordonDrogon> heh... thousands.
[17:47] <mpthompson> gordonDrogon, the memories come flooding back... I remember being crushed as a kid when my father wouldn't buy me a Commodore PET. The kind wit the chicklet keys.
[17:47] <gordonDrogon> one of those calculators came up on ebay recently - but it went for silly money... )-:
[17:47] <CcSsNET> mpthompson: still want one? i know someone selling 3
[17:47] <nemo> gordonDrogon: apparently the MK14 is 4Mhz
[17:47] * Holden (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:47] <gordonDrogon> ah yes, the Pet - they weren't as popular where I was.
[17:47] <nemo> INS 8060 ISP-8A/600 SC/MP-2 Clocked at 4 MHz (internally 2 MHz) first N Channel MOS version (single +5V supply)
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> 2MHz does not mean 2MHz instruction cycle
[17:48] <nemo> lol. power supply is same as the Pi :) :)
[17:48] <gordonDrogon> nemo, the Mk14 is 4MHz, however the CPU takes a billiong cycles just to execute one instruction...
[17:48] <nemo> ouch
[17:48] <gordonDrogon> it's not a terribly efficient CPU.
[17:48] <mpthompson> I had to settle for saving my money up to by a TRS-80 Color Computer with a whopping 4K of RAM... I upgraded it to 32K by soldering chips on top of each other.
[17:48] <nemo> soooo in terms of bogomips? :)
[17:49] <nemo> well. I guess the MIPS part is right out
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> In general, all CPUs of that era took several clock cycles to do one instruction
[17:49] <gordonDrogon> erm... 0.5 bogomips :)
[17:49] <CcSsNET> mpthompson: lol
[17:49] <nemo> mpthompson: you had a trash 80 too??
[17:49] <nemo> yay
[17:49] <mpthompson> I still have a soft place in my heart for 6809 assembly.
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> mpthompson: A pacemaker?
[17:49] <gordonDrogon> Hm. I was "into" 6502. I never really got to grips woth 6809, although it was popular.
[17:49] <CcSsNET> later all. lunch time here. usa, EST, 12 noon
[17:50] <gordonDrogon> teatime here in blighty.
[17:50] <nemo> mpthompson: my mom saw how much fun I was having on my trs80 and shipped me off to the local community college to learn pascal :)
[17:50] <nemo> gordonDrogon: a lot less than 0.5 surely
[17:50] <gordonDrogon> nemo, yea, that's probably being generous :)
[17:50] <mpthompson> I remember my mom brought me down to the community college to see if I could enroll, but they didn't allow 6th graders in. :-(
[17:51] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:51] <Hourd> =[
[17:51] <gordonDrogon> I did a lot of 8080 code for a job once - didn't like it, but it was OK. gave up on assemblers for a while after that.
[17:51] <gordonDrogon> other than 6502.
[17:51] <nemo> gordonDrogon: according to the bogomips chart, the Intel 8088 is rated at 0.02
[17:51] <mpthompson> I was the first kid in my high school to ever turn in a paper written on a word processor -- Wordstar on an Osborne CPM system...
[17:51] <gordonDrogon> I think we just have to write-off the SC/MP in the bogomips scale...
[17:52] <nemo> mpthompson: oh hey! you were about same age as me!
[17:52] <nemo> mpthompson: my mom was good friends w/ the prof though :)
[17:52] <nemo> my brother and I both got in
[17:52] <abaxas> ahhh the rm 38 ounce! them were the days
[17:52] <gordonDrogon> ah, wordstar. yes. I remember that and the 1000 key keyboards that went with it...
[17:52] <gordonDrogon> although I was firmly in the applewriter camp by then, and BBC Micro for home stuff.
[17:53] <mpthompson> I bet the Wordstar keystrokes still rattling around in my head somewhere....
[17:53] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:53] <gordonDrogon> don't even think about them....
[17:53] * gordonDrogon ponders... Have I any other really old stuff kicking about ...
[17:53] <drazyl> ^KV
[17:53] * Hourd like sold stuff, but loves living in the future
[17:53] * jgarrett (~jgarrett@rrcs-50-74-240-194.nyc.biz.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:54] <Hourd> *likes old
[17:54] <nemo> gordonDrogon: heh. so the Pi is apparently 500 bogomips - So 25,000 8088s :)
[17:54] <IT_Sean> Hourd: i think you are confused. we live in the present.
[17:54] <mpthompson> All my stuff has long since been given away. I probably should have held onto it. But I still have the memories. :-)
[17:55] <aditsu_with_pi> FBIOBLANK: Operation not permitted - how to fix that?
[17:55] <gordonDrogon> er, *my* pi is nearer 900 bogomips ... ;-)
[17:55] <gordonDrogon> BogoMIPS : 898.66
[17:55] <Hourd> IT_Sean: the future maaaan
[17:55] <mpthompson> I paid for my Sr. Prom by selling a program to a long defunct computer magazine. It's a wonder I ever got a date...
[17:55] <nemo> gordonDrogon: wow
[17:56] <nemo> nice
[17:56] <gordonDrogon> hm. got some home-made 6502 boards, but nothing else exciting.
[17:56] <nemo> gordonDrogon: I was getting the value from http://elinux.org/RPi_Software
[17:56] <mpthompson> 898.66? Is that when it's going downhill?
[17:56] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/6502front.jpg & http://unicorn.drogon.net/6502back.jpg
[17:57] <gordonDrogon> I've overclocked it.
[17:57] <nemo> gordonDrogon: so 45,000 8088s
[17:57] <gordonDrogon> it's been stable at 900MHz + 500MHz for a few days now.
[17:57] <nemo> gordonDrogon: temperature?
[17:57] <nemo> also. is the board in a case?
[17:57] <IT_Sean> Anyone hit 1GHz yet?
[17:57] <gordonDrogon> it topped out at 41C when I checked with an IR thermometer.
[17:57] <gordonDrogon> it's in a open sided case.
[17:58] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/mess3.jpg that's it with the top swung round.
[17:58] <nemo> gordonDrogon: is it relying on air flow to keep it cool, or like aluminium... ok
[17:58] * nemo looks
[17:58] <gordonDrogon> just convection.
[17:58] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] <nemo> well. that's encouraging
[17:58] <nemo> and. you lucky bastard :-/
[17:59] <gordonDrogon> I tried it at 1GHz but it didn't start. According to Doms post on the forums you need to overvoltage to get to 1GHz and over.
[17:59] <nemo> still another month to go for me :(
[17:59] <nemo> gordonDrogon: that does not sound safe
[17:59] <gordonDrogon> I'm not (yet) willing to overvoltage.
[17:59] <nemo> gordonDrogon: yeah. wait until there are a lot more of them out there :)
[18:00] <gordonDrogon> yes, but I might not bother. it's going to be a bit academic to rely on it - especially if I'm writing to software to run on other Pis.
[18:00] <nemo> gordonDrogon: that lil' board you have hooked up to GPIO - where do you recommend picking up parts?
[18:00] <nemo> gordonDrogon: I'm new to this
[18:00] <nemo> also. how's the interface, is there something nice under /proc or /dev or somesuch?
[18:00] <gordonDrogon> The board I have it on is this: http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/raspberry-pi-cover-with-breadboard-area-red-p-1071.html
[18:00] <gordonDrogon> there is some GPIO stuff under /sys/gpio
[18:00] <nemo> purty
[18:00] <gordonDrogon> nothing under /dev/ - yet.
[18:01] <gordonDrogon> however you can map /dev/mem and poke the GPIO directly.
[18:01] <gordonDrogon> Which is what I do.
[18:01] * Travenin_ (virtanel@mustaharakka.cs.tut.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:01] <nemo> that seems convoluted :-p
[18:01] <gordonDrogon> It's ok for now.
[18:01] <gordonDrogon> I've written my own C library to handle all the GPIO pins.
[18:02] <gordonDrogon> it just means that I need to run the program as root.
[18:02] <gordonDrogon> there are python modules avalable that use the /sys/gpio interface that doesn't need t obe root.
[18:03] * Syliss (~Syliss@108.75.47.45) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[18:03] <gordonDrogon> my aim is to have some common software that can poke the on-board GPIO, or off-board IO (arduino) using the same library calls.
[18:03] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-170.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:04] <gordonDrogon> so I have an arduino connected to it via usb serial: http://unicorn.drogon.net/mess2.jpg
[18:04] <gordonDrogon> and it's all happy.
[18:04] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[18:04] <gordonDrogon> all good fun!
[18:05] <nemo> nice
[18:05] <nemo> gordonDrogon: going to share I hope?
[18:05] * prebz (~prebz@c83-248-137-170.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:06] <nemo> this will be my first forray into this. my current "computer talking to outside world" is toggling voltage on the USB ports
[18:06] <nemo> oh. and I had an X-10 kit for a while
[18:06] <nemo> that was fun
[18:06] <gordonDrogon> sure - check https://projects.drogon.net/raspberry-pi/wiringpi/
[18:08] <nemo> that should be pretty useful. not really a big fan of python.
[18:08] <nemo> thanks
[18:08] <gamegeek> another ridcules question, if we want to leurn kids to program and get interested into it sudent we give them a dvorak keybeord to?
[18:08] <nemo> ??
[18:08] <nemo> you're right, that does sound like a ridiculous question :-p
[18:09] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:09] <gordonDrogon> wel... that would be OK if ?95% of all keyboards were like that :)
[18:09] <drazyl> gamegeek why on earth would you do that?
[18:09] <gamegeek> i mean its a better keybeord
[18:09] <gordonDrogon> I want kids to learn BASIC, but I appear to be in a minority there ;-)
[18:09] <drazyl> gamegeek no it's not
[18:09] <gamegeek> then azerty qwerty
[18:09] <drazyl> gamegeek it's a different keyboard
[18:09] <aditsu_with_pi> it's better for typing English text
[18:09] <nemo> http://www.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html
[18:09] <nemo> gordonDrogon: javascript :-p
[18:10] <nemo> http://www.codecademy.com
[18:10] <nemo> 1st link is about the dubiousness of dvorak superiority
[18:12] <abaxas> fuck dvorak
[18:12] <gamegeek> why
[18:12] <gamegeek> u like the current azerty qwerty
[18:12] <nemo> http://www.typingtest.com/ - I get 86wpm on a standard qwerty for the "Astronaut" text.
[18:12] * MikeJ1971_ (~MikeJ1971@ilrt-it005663.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[18:12] <nemo> I think that's sufficient for my simple needs
[18:12] <abaxas> no? I like to keep to one standard so I can type quickly on all
[18:12] <nemo> and no RSI
[18:13] <abaxas> give me a nice keyboard rather than a 'better' layout
[18:13] <nemo> gordonDrogon: anyway. thanks for the lib and blog posts. forwarding this on to those I know
[18:13] <gordonDrogon> ok
[18:13] <nemo> gordonDrogon: my boss is hoping to get his kid into working on the pi
[18:14] <nemo> so he needs tools
[18:14] <nemo> boards, libs :)
[18:14] <abaxas> seat
[18:14] <abaxas> nice keyboard mouse and rests
[18:14] <abaxas> coffee machine
[18:14] <IT_Sean> <-- qwerty
[18:14] <nemo> abaxas: coffe++
[18:14] <nemo> *coffee
[18:15] <drazyl> gamegeek why do you think dvorak is superior
[18:15] <abaxas> a nearby bin and a easy wipe clean desk it also a bonus :P
[18:15] <gordonDrogon> I think everyone should have a chance to see what programming is about, but I know that only a small number will go on to be programmers (or 'developers' or whatever name is trendy these days!)
[18:15] <nemo> gordonDrogon: oh. one more thing about that OC - 41?? - was that when stress testing it?
[18:16] <drazyl> gordonDrogon++
[18:16] <nemo> gordonDrogon: like, maxing out CPU for a decent amount of time until temp stabilised?
[18:16] <gordonDrogon> I was running mandelbrots on it constantly.
[18:16] <gordonDrogon> it only took a few moments to get up to 41C.
[18:16] <nemo> and it didn't go higher
[18:16] <gordonDrogon> however I wasn't doing anything with the GPU
[18:16] <gamegeek> dvorak is the future of world computing
[18:16] * JonSeals (~Jon@99-158-225-217.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has left #raspberrypi
[18:17] <IT_Sean> All this temperature information would be really useful if we knew the thermal limit of that SoC
[18:17] * NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD28ABA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:17] <nemo> gordonDrogon: hm. that OC was only of the CPU though, not the GPU, I imagine
[18:17] <gamegeek> it enables faster typing
[18:17] <gordonDrogon> it was running X and the mandelbrot was a basic program displaying in a 640x480 window.
[18:17] <drazyl> gamegeek dubious
[18:17] <drazyl> gamegeek there is no real evidence of that
[18:17] <Cheery> gamegeek: faster typing barely interests anyone
[18:17] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:17] <gordonDrogon> it might have been hotter if the GPU was doing something mor ethan just acting as a framebuffer, but I'd not overglocked the GPU, just the ARM and memory.
[18:18] <gamegeek> typing contests and steve wozniak
[18:18] <Cheery> gamegeek: I worked through dvorak and now I'm sort of hung on it.
[18:18] <drazyl> gamegeek and there is evidence the "superiority" was fraudulent
[18:18] <gordonDrogon> arm_freq=900
[18:18] <drazyl> gamegeek you might like to check your facts
[18:18] <gordonDrogon> gpu_freq=250
[18:18] * davros (~davros@66-189-124-24.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[18:18] <gordonDrogon> sdram_freq=500
[18:18] <gordonDrogon> that's the default gpu_freq
[18:18] <abaxas> dvorak_freq=0
[18:18] <Cheery> drazyl: actually.. I think the dvorak itself makes it less troublesome to type
[18:18] <mjr> so who's gonna check out how high can the pi go when immersed in liquid nitrogen?
[18:18] <Cheery> after using it myself for a while now
[18:18] <abaxas> also it sounds like anorak
[18:18] <abaxas> never good when talking about IT things
[18:19] <drazyl> Cheery but that may well be personal
[18:19] <IT_Sean> mjr: that sounds like a Bad Idea.
[18:19] <mjr> IT_Sean, well, it's not gonna be _me_ ;)
[18:19] <nemo> gordonDrogon: WRT whether 41?? is actually safe, well, we have you to find that out. If your Pi blows up in the next month, I'll know not to do that :)
[18:19] <nemo> gordonDrogon: oh. BTW. can the clock speed be adjusted on the fly?
[18:19] <IT_Sean> I would really like a spec from Broadcom on the upper temp limit of the SoC before i try to hit 1GHz with mine.
[18:19] <gordonDrogon> nemo, I think it'll be ok. but who knows! Dom says it's unlikely to shorten the life of the chip wheras overvolting will.
[18:20] <Cheery> drazyl: I don't know. after all it was designed with the idea that distance between characters would stay small.
[18:20] <Cheery> when typing english
[18:20] <Cheery> but but..
[18:20] <Cheery> I think it's pretty much useless to talk about it.
[18:20] <nemo> Cheery: RSI is also a consideration. and of course two hand typing involves touching letters that are close to each other in a word with different hands for faster speed
[18:21] <nemo> Cheery: you're right about pointlessness of the discussion though, and especially in this channel :)
[18:21] <drazyl> Cheery possibly, but to be honest I don't find that there is much movement when touch typing on qwerty
[18:21] <gordonDrogon> nemo it's set at boot time AIUI.
[18:21] <shirro> when people talk of overvolting shortening the life of a Pi what are we talking? At $35 this thing is practically disposable. If it lasts 12 months at 1Ghz I would be ok with that
[18:21] <drazyl> and having just looked at the key layout against what I just typed it's hard to see its any "better"
[18:22] <Cheery> drazyl: hmm maybe. in other hand it should make faster typer if it makes it less troublesome to press those keys
[18:22] <Cheery> drazyl: I think I might know why it helps in typing
[18:22] <drazyl> keys dont seem to be better arranged for anything ive just typed tho
[18:23] <shirro> gordonDrogon: you are overclocking the gpu as well without an overvolt?
[18:23] <wjoe> when I tried it briefly, it seemed like the most used keys are on the middle row
[18:23] <gordonDrogon> shirro, no - the gpu is at its default speed of 250MHz.
[18:23] <nemo> gordonDrogon: m'k. well. not that big a deal I guess if the power consumption doesn't significantly change
[18:23] <nemo> gordonDrogon: just thought variable could be handy in a device hooked up to a battery
[18:24] <Cheery> but yeah.. I guess I better go and comment one guy who just made a game. :)
[18:24] <Cheery> after trying it out
[18:24] <gamegeek> ?
[18:24] <Cheery> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/off-topic/wahey-my-first-pygame#p75792
[18:25] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[18:25] <nemo> Cheery: first thing I'm going to do when I get a Pi is attempt a port of our game
[18:25] <nemo> Cheery: I'm curious about the whole X versus no-X thing for games
[18:25] <nemo> we use SDL to create the GL context - I wonder whether SDL can create a context outside of X
[18:26] * mike__ (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:26] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:26] <Cheery> nemo: sure it can.
[18:26] <Cheery> nemo: hey want to see?
[18:26] <nemo> um
[18:26] <nemo> ok?
[18:26] <Cheery> hmm.. gartenzwerg isn't online.
[18:27] <Cheery> well he isn't home
[18:27] <nemo> Cheery: erm. you linking me to some emscripten/SDL thing? :) 'cause that's an SDL port
[18:27] <Cheery> I can't show because I don't have access to pi now. .)
[18:27] <nemo> oh
[18:27] <nemo> cool
[18:27] <nemo> thought you were trying to dig up a website
[18:28] <Cheery> he gave me ssh access to raspberry until I'd get my own
[18:28] <nemo> Cheery: so. the only issue would be the frontend which is Qt. Would want to be able to launch the engine outside of X if possible
[18:28] <Cheery> but appears he's afk and has shut down his systems
[18:28] <Cheery> SDL is able to create context outside X
[18:28] <Cheery> that Qt thing might challenge you
[18:28] <gordonDrogon> Quite from Gert: Note: these chips aren"t like Intel processors. They don"t fail due to temperature. Cooling has a minimal effect on the speed they can run at.
[18:29] <IT_Sean> That's all well and good, but there must be a temperature at which they DO fail.
[18:30] <nemo> place in oven, slowly increase temperature. log point at which device stops working
[18:30] <nemo> order another pi
[18:30] <IT_Sean> Now, it may be that you simply cannot run the thing fast enough to reach that temp, but... my point stillstands.
[18:30] <gordonDrogon> there was a port from Dom about it, but I can't find it in the forums.
[18:30] <gordonDrogon> I've run Intel Atoms at 90C...
[18:30] * s[x] (~sx]@ppp59-167-157-96.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:30] <nemo> gordonDrogon: you mean they don't run at that temperature all the time? :)
[18:31] <Cheery> nemo: can I see your game?
[18:31] <nemo> Cheery: http://hedgewars.org
[18:31] <nemo> Cheery: I didn't write it. just been helping out for a few years
[18:31] <Cheery> okay
[18:31] <nemo> well. I've written a lot of stuff since :D
[18:31] <nemo> but the engine is unc0rr's creation
[18:31] <gordonDrogon> here it is: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/config-txt#p40418
[18:32] <gordonDrogon> Atoms - well, they're not supposed to :)
[18:33] * hughg (~textual@87.83.30.51) Quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
[18:33] <gordonDrogon> based on that post, I feel I'm OK at 900MHz ARM clock and 500MHz SRAM clock.
[18:34] <gordonDrogon> and so-far so good.
[18:34] <nemo> gordonDrogon: huh. so 900MHz = 900bogomips?
[18:34] <gordonDrogon> brb door.
[18:36] * Eigen (~Eigen@S0106b8c75dc9a198.vn.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:36] <nemo> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/config-txt/page-2#p40469 - interesting
[18:37] <nemo> so there is power management, at least for the GPU
[18:37] <nemo> no info there about the CPU though
[18:37] <gordonDrogon> late deliverys..
[18:37] <IT_Sean> anything good?
[18:37] <gordonDrogon> nemo, yes the bogomips seem to track cpu frequency, ish.
[18:37] <gordonDrogon> not unless you want to lose weight :)
[18:38] * stuk_gen (~quassel@151.65.14.50) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:38] <nemo> ehm. naw. I'm good thanks :)
[18:39] <nemo> my weight control strategy is eating once a day
[18:39] <gordonDrogon> yea, one meal from 8am to 8pm :)
[18:40] <nemo> :-p
[18:40] <nemo> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/general-discussion/config-txt/page-3#p40625 - this one is interesting too
[18:40] <nemo> so headless systems still benefit from the GPU
[18:40] * andatche (~andatche@2001:470:91db:2:9886:949f:96d1:95df) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[18:41] <nemo> Cheery: what would be great is if the X driver improves in the next, oh, month. Then there's really no work at all. just build and go :)
[18:42] <Cheery> nemo: yeah
[18:42] <Cheery> nemo: I think that's what you'd like anyway
[18:42] * amelia_ (~amelia@host-2-97-106-246.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:42] * fabrice1 (~fabrice@nat/mozilla/x-tlcysmaaqoysctno) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:44] <gordonDrogon> SDL apps might benefit from some 2D acceleration - that would be nice to see.
[18:44] <gordonDrogon> but only becuase I've written an SDL app...
[18:45] <nemo> gordonDrogon: this app doesn't use SDL for the gl stuff -that's all GLES11
[18:45] <nemo> well. by the end of the summer it will be GLES2
[18:45] <Cheery> now this game doesn't look good. but there's so many things to start from.
[18:46] <Cheery> the one that guy made
[18:46] <Cheery> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/off-topic/wahey-my-first-pygame
[18:46] <nemo> ah. yeh
[18:46] <nemo> porting is more promising. I imagine Wesnoth will be right in line too
[18:46] <Cheery> I try to look up the three worst things I see and leave others to another time
[18:46] <Cheery> first I'd need to get the thing run though..
[18:47] <Cheery> I'm not sure this is what he wanted to show us.
[18:49] <Cheery> but I can see one thing that was mentioned once to me
[18:49] <Cheery> newbies need something to cut and paste from
[18:49] <Cheery> remix..
[18:49] * aergus (~aras@sekai.istanbulhs.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:49] <Cheery> more material they have, more brilliant things they can do
[18:51] * gurgalof (~gurgalof@c80-216-122-131.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:51] * MrWatson (~MrW@184.53.134.111) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:54] <gordonDrogon> lets do my daily check on raspbian
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[18:58] * gamegeek (gamegeek@109.131.173.210) Quit ()
[18:58] * alyosha_sql (~a@88.200.57.130) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:58] <Cheery> okay..
[18:58] <Cheery> my analysis about his code
[18:59] <Cheery> it's surprisingly easy to understand for me. but he repeats himself.
[19:00] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:01] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:05] <nemo> gordonDrogon: btw, WRT basic for kids, I did really enjoy basic as a kid. I found it easier to follow than pascal actually, but that could be because basic was all I had at home.
[19:06] <nemo> gordonDrogon: I still have 2 or 3 of the programs I wrote as a kid :)
[19:06] <gordonDrogon> that' good!
[19:07] <nemo> http://m8y.org/maze.bas - this got transferred to a 3?? floppy, and then found in a shoebox years later :D
[19:07] <nemo> still runs fine w/ qbi + dosbox :D
[19:08] <gordonDrogon> what basic was that?
[19:08] <nemo> gordonDrogon: microsoft's
[19:08] <nemo> the intepreter that came with dos
[19:09] <nemo> http://m8y.org/snowflak.bas - yes, I wrote it iteratively. I think recursion confused me
[19:09] * Holden (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:10] <gordonDrogon> hm. snowflake looks intersting - let me see if I can make it work in RTB...
[19:11] <nemo> lol
[19:11] <gordonDrogon> what does screen 12 do?
[19:11] <nemo> gordonDrogon: oh. so you actually still *use* basic
[19:11] <gordonDrogon> yes.
[19:11] <nemo> I thought you were expressing nostalgia for quickbasic and dos
[19:11] <nemo> oops :)
[19:11] <gordonDrogon> I wrote a new BASIC interpreter a few months ago...
[19:12] <nemo> erm. my vague recollection was that screen 12 was for drawing
[19:12] <nemo> graphics mode
[19:13] <nemo> yeah. haven't really touched basic in years, apart from updating a website like 5 years ago. oh. and running qbi in dosbox and screwing around a little.
[19:15] <nemo> huh. I don't even remember why there's a SLEEP in there...
[19:15] <nemo> maybe to pause between iterations
[19:15] <nemo> if so I should have put a notification of completion of an iteration for the smaller ones
[19:15] <gordonDrogon> heh translating it now..
[19:15] <gordonDrogon> it will run again :)
[19:15] <nemo> lol
[19:15] <aditsu_with_pi> ok, time to come out :) you guys are gonna say I'm completely insane
[19:15] <nemo> I wonder if there's a javascript based basic interpreter out there
[19:15] * esotera (~jamie@94-193-222-75.zone7.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[19:15] <aditsu_with_pi> I'm currently running kde on the Pi
[19:16] <hotwings> my condolences!
[19:17] * tsdedst (~tsdedst@bl6-52-51.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:19] * Laogeodritt (~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:19] <aditsu_with_pi> haha :)
[19:20] <aditsu_with_pi> it's still alive
[19:20] <hotwings> i would think kde would bring it to its knees
[19:21] <passstab> me too
[19:21] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/snowflake.png
[19:21] <nemo> hm. I don't remember it being that buggy :)
[19:21] <nemo> some overflow somewherez?
[19:21] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/rtb/snowflake.rtb
[19:22] <gordonDrogon> that's not what it's supposed to look like?
[19:22] * nemo pulls a diff
[19:22] <aditsu_with_pi> well, it does kinda bring it to its knees
[19:22] <nemo> gordonDrogon: the top part sure
[19:22] <nemo> gordonDrogon: the other lines, not so much
[19:22] <aditsu_with_pi> so it crawls
[19:22] <nemo> gordonDrogon: um. lemme fire up qbi and take a screenshot
[19:22] <nemo> probably will have to install dosbox on this machine first
[19:23] <passstab> aditsu_with_pi, why do you use it?
[19:24] <passstab> i'd think you would run a light wm with KDE apps if you like them
[19:24] <aditsu_with_pi> passstab: generally, because I think it's the best; on the pi.. I probably won't use it, just want to see how it goes
[19:24] <passstab> ahh ok
[19:25] <gordonDrogon> I'd like to run up xfce4 at some point myself - as that's what I'm using on all my other systems.
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[19:28] <nemo> gordonDrogon: http://m8y.org/images/temp.png
[19:28] * namfonos (~boris@108-194-22-242.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:29] <amelia_> purdy
[19:29] <passstab> nemo: do you have yours rpi yet?
[19:29] * ngilles (~nicolas@31.36.76.237) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:30] <hotwings> no updates on getting hw accel in X on rpi yet i guess?
[19:30] <nemo> gordonDrogon: http://m8y.org/images/temp2.png - and the game
[19:30] <nemo> passstab: nope. next month :-/
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[19:31] <gordonDrogon> nemo, a-ha! I've not tackeld the game..
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> woa! Raspbian has libsdl-dev !!!
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> Woo Hoo!
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> 0 upgraded, 53 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> Need to get 10.2 MB of archives.
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> After this operation, 28.1 MB of additional disk space will be used.
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> Do you want to continue [Y/n]?
[19:32] * ragna_ (~ragna@e180058128.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:32] <ajtag> Y
[19:32] <passstab> ?
[19:32] <gordonDrogon> Fetched 10.2 MB in 16s (604 kB/s)
[19:32] <gordonDrogon> now it'll take 10 miutes to install it all...
[19:32] * gordonDrogon waits patiently.
[19:32] <passstab> no he dosn't
[19:33] <amelia_> heh
[19:33] <gurgalof> how is it going with Raspbian?
[19:33] * ajtag gets itchy for gordonDrogon
[19:33] <Eigen> hmm
[19:33] <Eigen> Raspbian?
[19:33] <gordonDrogon> from my point of view, as a mere user, I see new stuff being packaged every day, so it's slowly getting there.
[19:33] <gordonDrogon> today they have the SDL libraries, so I can finally compile my BASIC :)
[19:34] <gordonDrogon> although I may also have to install X ...
[19:34] <nemo> lol
[19:34] <plugwash> Eigen, raspbian is a project trying to create an unofficial hardfloat port of debian for the Pi
[19:34] * thms (u5770@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ypigitlwtkqgxafz) has left #raspberrypi
[19:34] <Eigen> oh
[19:34] <nemo> gordonDrogon: they have firefox, so you have basic already if you are willing to go through a silly number of abstraction layers :)
[19:35] <Eigen> why not haiku?
[19:35] <gurgalof> why not C?
[19:35] * ngilles (~nicolas@31.36.76.237) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:35] * ragna (~ragna@e180057192.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:36] <Cheery> I keep wondering whether I'd urgently need AA batteries today for something
[19:36] * ngilles (~nicolas@31.36.76.237) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:36] <Cheery> because they all seem to be disappeared perfectly
[19:36] <Cheery> doesn't look good
[19:36] <gurgalof> you don't, just get a lipo
[19:36] <Cheery> great advice
[19:37] <Cheery> xcept somebody stole them too
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> unless it's a pack of 4 and exepecting 6 volts...
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> still unpacking packages... slow data card.
[19:38] * Delboy_ (~Delboy_@158-237.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[19:38] * Delboy_ (~Delboy_@234-243.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:38] * piney_ is now known as piney0
[19:40] * Matttt (~Matthew@cpc3-farn4-0-0-cust594.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[19:40] * ngilles (~nicolas@31.36.76.237) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[19:41] * Siph0n (~Siph0n@201.sub-174-235-194.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:42] * mkopack (~mkopack@108.106.210.127) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[19:43] <gurgalof> which architecture is raspbian compiled for armv6 or armv6k?
[19:43] <gurgalof> is the pi a v6 or v6k arch?
[19:45] <gordonDrogon> Linux raspbian 3.1.9+ #36 Mon Apr 30 15:16:33 BST 2012 armv6l GNU/Linux
[19:45] * ngilles (~nicolas@31.36.76.237) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[19:45] <gurgalof> v6l... hmm
[19:46] * ngilles (~nicolas@31.36.76.237) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] <gordonDrogon> lxde : Depends: lxterminal but it is not installable
[19:46] <mjr> l is clearly one higher, so better
[19:46] <gordonDrogon> Bother. going to have to try to run it in the console...
[19:46] * stevepdp (~stevepdp@027986b4.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] * stevepdp (~stevepdp@027986b4.bb.sky.com) Quit (Changing host)
[19:46] * stevepdp (~stevepdp@fsf/member/stevepdp) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] <gurgalof> higher must be better i hope
[19:47] <plugwash> Currently we are building raspbian for plain armv6, I think the Pi may be able to support the k version but i'm not absoloutely positive and if possible I want to support other armv6 devices as well
[19:47] <plugwash> arm architectures are one hell of a mess :(
[19:47] <mjr> they are a bit of that, yes
[19:47] <gurgalof> plugwash, okay, what would be the benefit of compiling for the exact arch rather than plain armv6?
[19:48] <gurgalof> arm seems to be a hell yes....
[19:48] <gordonDrogon> hardare floating point enabled by default and usig the hardware fp ABI for function calls. (AIUI)
[19:48] * amelia_ (~amelia@host-2-97-106-246.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:49] <gurgalof> hard float is the most important thing...
[19:49] <plugwash> gurgalof, I dunno what the exact differences between the different armv6 variants are but I think they are pretty minor
[19:49] <plugwash> we ARE building for hardfloat
[19:49] <gurgalof> plugwash, i will try to read more on the small differences
[19:49] <mjr> http://www.digipedia.pl/usenet/thread/19013/11657/ says "CPU_32v6K directly controlled whether we should include the ARMv6K instructions (clrex, load/store exclusive
[19:50] <mjr> byte, half-word, double).
[19:50] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[19:50] <mjr> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0301h/apbs02s02.html lists ARMv6k extensions support, a couple of things besides that
[19:51] <plugwash> It's MUCH easier to increase CPU requirements than to reduce them
[19:51] <plugwash> because reducing them means you have to make sure every single peice of code gets recompiled.
[19:51] <plugwash> So that is why i'm wary of increasing the settings without fully understanding the implications.
[19:52] <gurgalof> true
[19:52] * gordonDrogon sighs. Hard crash needing power cycle.
[19:53] <gurgalof> can i compile just som packages for a higher cpu than the system?
[19:54] <gurgalof> if i compile my own stuff for example
[19:54] <plugwash> yeah, you can manually tell gcc what processor settings you want it to compile for
[19:54] * andatche (~andatche@2001:470:91db:2:9886:949f:96d1:95df) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-133-207-167.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:55] <gurgalof> i know that i can tell it, just wanted to know if it will work, thanks
[19:55] <gurgalof> hopefully i will get my pi this or next week
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> it's not just the cpu, it's the ABI - ARM has 2 calling conventions.
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> one which passes floating point in floating point registers the other which uses the integer registers.
[19:56] <gordonDrogon> and the 2 are not compatable on the same system, so the *whole* universe needs to be recompiled.
[19:56] <mpthompson> armv6 was a result of earlier experiments just to verify that armv6+vfp was indeed 100% compatible with Debian armhf at the ABI level. It mostly stuck because neither Plugwash or I have RPi hardware to test against. Hopefully that will be resolved soon for Plugwash.
[19:56] <gordonDrogon> and my stupid skpang board won't let me plug in the composite video without me taking it to bits )-:
[19:57] <Hexxeh> mpthompson: offer of a board on SSH is still there if you want it :)
[19:57] * Nyn3x (~Nyn3x@securitycenter.rit.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:57] <mpthompson> Thanks. There is supposed to be one being sent to me so hopefully that wil resolve itself soon.
[19:58] <gordonDrogon> ok, back to compost video land..
[19:59] <mjr> mpthompson, that's nice to know. The ABI compatibility bit. Could be worse ;]
[20:00] <mpthompson> I also share plugwash concern regarding choosing a higher level armv6 chip without the implications fully known. Filtering out armv7 code is a pain, but possible. Trying to determine which packages are armv6 vs. armv6k would be VERY difficult if it had to be done. Keeping it all armv6 for now keeps it simple for us.
[20:01] <mpthompson> Honestly, knowing what I know now after doing Raspbian for a few weeks, I really don't know how the orginal armhf team got their stuff compiled.
[20:01] <gordonDrogon> back tp guessng the screen size. I have to say for all it's googness, the video driver is rubbish on the pi.
[20:01] <mpthompson> We benefit greatly from being able to build and link against armv7 armhf modules. Without those, this project would have been 10x more difficult.
[20:02] <mpthompson> Does anyone use acl2? It's been compiling for nearly 18 hours now. :-(
[20:02] <Hexxeh> and I thought a couple of hours for a chrome debug build was bad...!
[20:03] <mpthompson> ACL2 is both a programming language in which you can model computer systems and a tool to help you prove properties of those models.
[20:03] <mpthompson> I sure hope someone with a Pi uses it one day...
[20:03] <mjr> and yeah, going for arm6k seems like little gain for lots of uncertainty and less reusability
[20:04] <plugwash> mpthompson, looking at the debian log it looks like acl2 takes about 24 hours so you are well over half way there
[20:05] <mpthompson> I hope so. I had a bug in my log script and I accidently nuked its log. I don't want to try to figure out what happened if it failed.
[20:05] <passstab> what other devices are you targeting w/o 6k?
[20:05] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:05] * evert (~evert@xvm-30-94.ghst.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:05] <mpthompson> My iPhone 3G. :-)
[20:06] <plugwash> well the olinuxuno springs to mind immediately, I know it's armv6 but i'm not sure exactly which variant
[20:06] <evert> anyone having a link to an older build of openelec for rpi? (10710 would be great)
[20:06] * retrospectacus (~adama@199.247.176.189) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:07] * Compy (~Compy@c-98-251-52-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ()
[20:07] * Eigen (~Eigen@S0106b8c75dc9a198.vn.shawcable.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:07] <mpthompson> Oh, google seems to says the iPhone is armv6k... Oh well...
[20:07] <evert> the 10888 build seems to crash/freeze even when in the menu's after 5-60 seconds
[20:07] <passstab> olinuxuno?
[20:08] * Eigen (~Eigen@S0106b8c75dc9a198.vn.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:08] <evert> the voltage (between the tp1 and tp2 pins) reads ~4.82
[20:08] <evert> so i'm not sure if it's the voltage, or this build
[20:08] <mjr> mpthompson, quick, forget the pi and micro-optimize for the iphone
[20:08] <mpthompson> OLINUXINO is Open Source software and Open Source Hardware, low cost EUR 30 Linux Industrial grade single board computer with GPIOs.
[20:09] <mpthompson> http://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO
[20:10] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
[20:10] * jgarrett (~jgarrett@rrcs-50-74-240-194.nyc.biz.rr.com) Quit (Quit: jgarrett)
[20:10] <nemo> Hexxeh: lol. Chrome on the pi? :)
[20:11] <nemo> better not open more than one tab :D
[20:11] <Hexxeh> nemo: indeed!
[20:11] <nemo> the one thing chrome does not do, is memory efficiency :)
[20:11] <Hexxeh> meh, you'd be surprised
[20:11] <Hexxeh> it can do quite well
[20:12] <nemo> not as well as pretty much any other browser :-)
[20:12] * Mr_Rpi (~CG@c83-253-191-14.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] * prolix (~duncan@109.169.87.147) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] <Mr_Rpi> is there a official Pi IRC channel?
[20:14] <nemo> Hexxeh: http://www.itworld.com/sites/default/files/figure3_browserfootprint.jpg - 5 tabs and you are out of memory on the Pi ;)
[20:14] <nemo> Hexxeh: but I stand corrected on "pretty much any other browser" - looks like opera's footprint is only decent in stable, not beta or nightly
[20:14] <prolix> Hexxeh: Is there a build for chromium by you out yet ?
[20:14] <nemo> http://www.itworld.com/sites/default/files/figure1_browserfootprint.jpg
[20:14] <plugwash> basically the olinuxino has similar cost to the Pi, weaker soc and less ram but far more GPIO.
[20:15] <plugwash> not released yet though afaict
[20:15] <passstab> i think it is the an older version of arm tho
[20:16] <mpthompson> Plugwash, does the iMX233 have vfp? I can't seem to find out either way.
[20:17] * plugwash thought all armv6 CPUs had vfp but i'm not positive on that
[20:18] * aergus (~aras@sekai.istanbulhs.org) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:19] <mpthompson> Looking at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.MX#i.MX23_family It doesn't seem to. :-(
[20:20] * prolix (~duncan@109.169.87.147) has left #raspberrypi
[20:20] * Da|Mummy (~veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:20] <plugwash> hmm, I don't see any mention of vfp in that article at all
[20:21] <Mr_Rpi> what is the recommended web browser for raspberry pi? I have tried the default in debian but dont like it
[20:21] <_av500_> imx233 is arm9, no?
[20:21] <_av500_> so vfp unlikely
[20:21] * retrospectacus (~adama@199.247.176.189) has left #raspberrypi
[20:21] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[20:22] <passstab> Mr_Rpi, iceweasel?
[20:22] <passstab> why don't you like it?
[20:22] <Mr_Rpi> Ill try that right away..... is really new to this
[20:23] <passstab> no no
[20:23] <Mr_Rpi> just.... want some more references.... didnt like the feeling of it just....
[20:23] <passstab> what is the name of the browser?
[20:23] <passstab> oh is it midori?
[20:23] <Mr_Rpi> yep
[20:24] <passstab> you should try iceweasel
[20:24] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:24] <IT_Sean> IRC clients?
[20:24] <Mr_Rpi> just doing apt/get install uh
[20:24] <SBeans> hola all
[20:24] <nemo> passstab: what version of iceweasel does debian for RPI use?
[20:24] <passstab> IDK :P
[20:24] <nemo> passstab: 'cause the memory footprint of gecko has shrunk a lot recently
[20:25] * mkopack (~mkopack@173-133-207-167.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: mkopack)
[20:25] <SBeans> just dd'd my sd card. All files look good, do i just plug it into my pi now?
[20:25] <nemo> which could be pretty important for the pi
[20:25] <SBeans> and turn it on?
[20:25] * Da|Mummy (~veki@cpe-76-190-200-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:25] <Mr_Rpi> yes do it
[20:25] <nemo> SBeans: did you remember the sacrifice?
[20:25] <nemo> SBeans: and the incense?
[20:25] <SBeans> lol
[20:25] <SBeans> I dont think it worked
[20:25] <SBeans> I just pluged it in
[20:25] <passstab> 10 would be my guess
[20:25] <SBeans> and nothing
[20:25] <SBeans> what should I expect to see
[20:25] <SBeans> (the light comes on :D)
[20:25] <nemo> people always forget the incense :(
[20:26] <Mr_Rpi> I was going to try Fedora but had to lilttle space on my micro sd card
[20:26] <IT_Sean> did you remember the goats blood?
[20:26] <Hexxeh> nemo: there are things you can tweak to reduce the memory footprint
[20:26] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:26] <SBeans> awesome, goats blood, newbie mistake
[20:26] <nemo> Hexxeh: looks like it needs a lot more than just "tweaking" :)
[20:26] * gordonDrogon mutters.
[20:26] <passstab> Mr_Rpi, iceweasel is mostly the same as firefox
[20:26] <nemo> Hexxeh: unless "tweak" is code for "slash in half"
[20:27] <gordonDrogon> well - don't know how, but it seems I've lost the ability to start my prog. in the console natively.
[20:27] <Hexxeh> nemo: it's never going to be fantastic, but i'm convinced you can make it usable
[20:27] <nemo> passstab: they might not be using PGO for iceweasel
[20:27] <Mr_Rpi> im accctually running this irc client on debian raspberry pi right now
[20:27] <gordonDrogon> I either crash the Pi or it just leaves mewith a blank screen.
[20:27] <passstab> PGO?
[20:27] <nemo> passstab: but. yeah. apart from that is basically branding
[20:27] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:27] <IT_Sean> SBeans: did you look at the quick start guide, on the website?
[20:27] <nemo> passstab: profile-guided optimisation. helps w/ performance
[20:27] <passstab> what version did this start in?
[20:28] <nid0> SBeans, just a red light or green as well?
[20:28] <SBeans> IT_Sean: nope :/
[20:28] <SBeans> just red
[20:29] <Mr_Rpi> should only be red in the beginning later when inserted the memory the green one should start
[20:29] <passstab> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=iceweasel&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all&sourceid=mozilla-search
[20:29] <IT_Sean> did you plug it in THEN put in the SD card, or did you put in the SD and then power?
[20:29] <passstab> 10 is the stable
[20:30] <passstab> and 11 is experimental
[20:30] <SBeans> sd then power
[20:30] <SBeans> is that wrong
[20:30] <IT_Sean> that's the thing. i dunno.
[20:30] <Mr_Rpi> that is correct
[20:30] <nid0> no, thats right
[20:30] <nid0> what sort of power source are you using?
[20:30] <SBeans> basically Im assuming my sd card isnt right
[20:30] <SBeans> just a micro usb
[20:30] <Hexxeh> dispatch email from RS for another Pi, awesome
[20:30] <nid0> from what?
[20:31] <IT_Sean> what power supply are you using, SBeans ?
[20:31] <Mr_Rpi> is it the debian release on the micro?
[20:31] <SBeans> usb -micro usb from another PC
[20:31] <IT_Sean> you are powering it from a PC?
[20:31] <SBeans> yea
[20:31] <IT_Sean> THat's probably the issue
[20:31] <nid0> depending on your pc it may not be supplying enough power
[20:31] <passstab> gaa 3.5 is stable
[20:31] <nid0> try it from a wall plug if possible
[20:31] <IT_Sean> PC can only pot out about 500ma
[20:31] <SBeans> ok awesome, thats a quick fix
[20:31] <IT_Sean> you need 700ma for the pi
[20:31] <SBeans> brb
[20:31] <passstab> 10 is testing
[20:31] <passstab> :P
[20:31] <nid0> (pc's can output plenty of power, but it depends on their usb bus)
[20:32] <Mr_Rpi> ok.... I says I got 3.5.16?
[20:32] <passstab> okay...(one min)
[20:32] <Mr_Rpi> do u have a keyboard or a mouse in your Pi? remove them and try again
[20:33] <nemo> passstab: even before the big FF4 conversion - FF3.6 days
[20:33] <nemo> passstab: although linux lagged
[20:33] <gordonDrogon> Hm. woo hoo (ish). can't install lxde due to dependancies, but I can install xfce4... so I will...
[20:33] <nemo> passstab: (gcc bugs)
[20:33] <gordonDrogon> (raspbian)
[20:33] <nemo> passstab: they had to submit some patches or somesuch
[20:33] <passstab> Mr_Rpi, what are you useing the RPI for?
[20:33] * Holden (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:33] <passstab> Mr_Rpi, you might want to upgrade to testing
[20:34] * phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-74-124.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:34] <nemo> is it possible to cross-compile for the Pi?
[20:34] * NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD28ABA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: NIN101)
[20:34] <nemo> or are most people just building on the pi?
[20:34] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[20:34] <gordonDrogon> I'm buiding, but my app only takes 87 seconds to compile from scratch.
[20:35] <gordonDrogon> which I rarely do.
[20:35] <passstab> Mr_Rpi, then try debian testing
[20:35] <gordonDrogon> dowbloaded... now the slow unpack and install...
[20:35] * neciO (~juan@d51A44634.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:35] * MrWatson (~MrW@184.53.134.111) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:36] <gordonDrogon> I wouldn't upgrade to testing - it'll take all day & the next to download and unpack it all..
[20:36] <passstab> it is said that what debian calls testing others call stable and what debian calls stable others call obsolete
[20:37] <Mr_Rpi> hehe
[20:37] <SBeans> ok so I have a red light
[20:37] <SBeans> and the green "OK" light is on
[20:37] <SBeans> now using htc usb to "the wall" charger
[20:37] <IT_Sean> Groovy.
[20:37] <Mr_Rpi> great SBeans
[20:37] <SBeans> no input recived tho
[20:37] * eephillip (~eephillip@pdpc/supporter/student/eephillip) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] <IT_Sean> Is it booting?
[20:37] <IT_Sean> bugger.
[20:37] * gurgalof (~gurgalof@m90-132-232-207.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[20:38] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:38] <IT_Sean> what class of SD card are you using?
[20:38] <SBeans> dd if=archlinuxarm-29-04-2012.img of=/dev/device
[20:38] <SBeans> I ran that
[20:38] <SBeans> ad
[20:38] <SBeans> and thats it
[20:38] * MrWatson (~MrW@184.53.134.111) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:38] <SBeans> any ideas?
[20:38] <passstab> so type "sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list" in a terminal
[20:39] <SBeans> ? on my computer? with the sd card in?
[20:39] * Holden (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[20:39] <mjr> SBeans, did you actually type in "/dev/device" or did you actually use the real device node name?
[20:39] <SBeans> no lol
[20:40] <Mr_Rpi> so... when upgrading to testing, how do i do.... right now i typed sudo apt-get install iceweasel..... should i try with upgrade?
[20:40] <SBeans> i put the device name
[20:40] <passstab> no i was talking to Mr_Rpi
[20:40] <SBeans> and it has 2 file systems
[20:40] * eephillip (~eephillip@pdpc/supporter/student/eephillip) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:40] <mjr> which was?
[20:40] <SBeans> ok passstab that makes more sense
[20:40] <SBeans> the device name is mmcblk
[20:40] <SBeans> but it defo did the dd fine
[20:40] * eephillip (~eephillip@pdpc/supporter/student/eephillip) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:40] <SBeans> I can see the file systems
[20:40] <SBeans> but
[20:41] <Mr_Rpi> so... i did that and got three rows of text
[20:41] <passstab> what do they say?(pm me)
[20:43] * chancellorsmith (~chancello@5e0cd2ed.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:43] <SBeans> ?
[20:44] * chancellorsmith (~chancello@5e0cd2ed.bb.sky.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:46] * GibbaTheHutt (~moo@78-105-152-175.zone3.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:47] * mkopack (~mkopack@107.31.127.2) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:47] <Mr_Rpi> hehe... my keyboard setup is uk and i have a swedish one... darn... before finding right on this one
[20:48] <SBeans> fuuu how do I debug my problems :/
[20:49] * ggeek (6d83add2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.131.173.210) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:50] <gordonDrogon> Unpacking libxklavier16 (from .../libxklavier16_5.2.1-1_armhf.deb) ...
[20:50] <gordonDrogon> etc.
[20:51] * linagee (~linagee@about/linux/staff/linagee) Quit (Changing host)
[20:51] * linagee (~linagee@about/linux/regular/linagee) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:52] <gordonDrogon> and who needs lxterminal when I have good old:
[20:52] <gordonDrogon> Unpacking xterm (from .../archives/xterm_278-1_armhf.deb) ...
[20:52] <ggeek> ?
[20:53] <gordonDrogon> ignore me, ggeek I'm just wittering on to myself :)
[20:53] * vmplanet (~quassel@nat-wv.mentorg.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:54] <ggeek> yea oke, u putting togeter ur drivers or parts of ur os to compile?
[20:54] <gordonDrogon> installing xfce4 on the raspbian system.
[20:54] <gordonDrogon> ironically lxde isn't quite ready, but xfce4 is!
[20:54] <gordonDrogon> so I thought I'd try it :)
[20:55] <gordonDrogon> I'm struggling to get an SDL program to run in the console natively - it's easier under X.
[20:55] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <ggeek> yea i dont know any of this x like in x 11?
[20:56] <haltdef> yay chrooted into a raspbian armhf rootfs
[20:56] <haltdef> qemu static ftw
[20:56] <gordonDrogon> yea, X11.
[20:56] <ggeek> oke
[20:57] <gordonDrogon> hm. maybe I ought to have run raspbian under qemu - it might be faster for installing packages!!!
[20:57] <haltdef> I'm bootstrapping a system atm
[20:58] <haltdef> haven't decided how to build the kernel yet :P
[20:58] <haltdef> don't have my gentoo VM handy, crossdev ftw
[20:58] <gordonDrogon> ah, gentoo...
[20:58] <gordonDrogon> I've thought about that, but never had the time to give it a go...
[20:58] <haltdef> I used it as my main OS many years ago
[20:59] <haltdef> I realize now that it's a ridiculous distro to use as a desktop/laptop OS but I'm grateful I did
[20:59] * chancellorsmith (~chancello@5e0cd2ed.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <haltdef> given me a pretty good understanding of linux
[20:59] * BassoW520 (~quassel@pc5165.stdby.hin.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <BassoW520> hello!
[20:59] <haltdef> ./debootstrap/debootstrap --second-stage !
[20:59] * Kostic (~Kostic@net27-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <haltdef> that's what i was forgetting
[21:00] <haltdef> "wtf, where is apt"
[21:00] * D34TH (D34TH@c-76-101-80-122.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] * D34TH (D34TH@c-76-101-80-122.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Changing host)
[21:00] * D34TH (D34TH@unaffiliated/d34th) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] <gordonDrogon> yea, I just picked debian many years ago and have stuck with it.
[21:00] <BassoW520> i just lauched the pi, im in the terminal, how can i get to the desktop environment?
[21:00] <haltdef> windows is my distro of choice now
[21:00] <gordonDrogon> type: startx
[21:00] <haltdef> recently switched to debian on the server form win2k8, pleased with it :P
[21:01] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:01] <gordonDrogon> that's another reason for me - I have 2 dozen servers to look after!
[21:01] <haltdef> single home server under the stairs for me
[21:01] <gordonDrogon> :-)
[21:01] <haltdef> glad i dicked about with debian armhf on the pandaboard
[21:01] <haltdef> know exactly what I'm doing now :P
[21:02] <BassoW520> gordonDrogon: thanx mate
[21:02] <gordonDrogon> BassoW520, you new to linux, or just initially getting into the Pi?
[21:02] * curahack (~curahack@sub-190-88-70ip37.rev.onenet.an) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:02] <BassoW520> the pi
[21:02] <BassoW520> its so strange
[21:02] * curahack (~curahack@sub-190-88-70ip37.rev.onenet.an) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:03] <gordonDrogon> strange in what way?
[21:03] <haltdef> just got mine today, the thing is adorable
[21:03] <gordonDrogon> heh
[21:03] <gordonDrogon> had mine for a couple of weeks now.
[21:03] <haltdef> not bad considering I ordered friday :P
[21:03] <gordonDrogon> wish I had more time to device to it...
[21:04] <gordonDrogon> really? Oh, an "invite" from RS type thing?
[21:04] <haltdef> yea
[21:04] <gordonDrogon> RS have yet to get back to me...
[21:04] <zleap> ohhj, i am wating for mine
[21:04] <zleap> waiting, invite that is
[21:04] <gordonDrogon> I wonder if they know I've ordered from Farnell...
[21:05] <haltdef> I have a questionable microsd here
[21:05] <haltdef> joy
[21:05] <gordonDrogon> your probably not the only one...
[21:05] * gurgalof (~gurgalof@dhcp-197-16.nomad.chalmers.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:05] <haltdef> on the panda I just used a 32MB(!) SD for the bootloader and booted of a usb hd
[21:05] <haltdef> that's overkill though
[21:06] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:06] <chancellorsmith> I've got a ruby on rails web server running on my pi in the cupboard under the stairs
[21:06] <chancellorsmith> which is nice
[21:06] <gordonDrogon> yea, I doubt it's any faster doing it that way on the Pi.
[21:06] * vmplanet is now known as unkle_george
[21:07] <chancellorsmith> Will a very old webcam be recognised - doubt it ? kernel shenanigans required ?
[21:07] <mjr> quite depends on the webcam
[21:07] <zleap> chancellorsmith, so what do you use ruby on rails for in terms of web sites
[21:08] <zleap> i know rails is a framework
[21:08] <chancellorsmith> its a framework yes
[21:08] <zleap> so what does it do in terms of websites
[21:08] <chancellorsmith> basically for creating database driven websites
[21:08] <zleap> ah
[21:08] <zleap> like e-commerce for example
[21:09] * gurgalof (~gurgalof@dhcp-197-16.nomad.chalmers.se) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:09] <chancellorsmith> kind of script driven
[21:09] <zleap> ok
[21:09] <zleap> so it can integrate with mysql etc
[21:09] <chancellorsmith> you can very quickly get a DB driven website together be it a blog, to do list bla bla, anything
[21:09] <chancellorsmith> written in ruby
[21:09] <zleap> ah
[21:09] <chancellorsmith> yes - it's database agnostic
[21:09] <gordonDrogon> well silly me. for some reason I thought that installing xfce4 would bring in the actual X server. Hmph.
[21:09] <chancellorsmith> mysql, sqlite, postgres etc
[21:10] <chancellorsmith> bring your own DB if you like
[21:10] <chancellorsmith> this one line command will generate a "scaffolded" web app
[21:10] <zleap> ok
[21:11] <zleap> nice, i know there is a ruby program for kids on linux and I think they are porting rubyforkids to the raspPI
[21:11] <chancellorsmith> rails generate scaffold car name:string top_speed:integer description:text
[21:11] <BassoW520> anyone had problems with resolution?
[21:11] <BassoW520> i only get 1824x984
[21:11] <chancellorsmith> not a great web app - but a web app of sorts - a list of cars??? hmmm, don't think Facebook has much to worry about just yet
[21:12] <gordonDrogon> you might need to edit /boot/config.txt
[21:12] <gordonDrogon> or create it if it's not there.
[21:12] <gordonDrogon> Put this in it:
[21:12] <gordonDrogon> disable_overscan=1
[21:12] <gordonDrogon> that'll give you a bit more.
[21:13] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-75-47-45.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:13] * uen| is now known as uen
[21:13] * rm (rm@fsf/member/rm) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[21:13] <chancellorsmith> well hellloooooooooo, lsusb gives something ??? this ???. Bus 001 Device 004: ID 041e:400d Creative Technology, Ltd Webcam PD1001
[21:14] * rm (rm@fsf/member/rm) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:14] <gordonDrogon> say cheese :)
[21:14] <chancellorsmith> anyone know how I might grab a jpeg from the command line with that bad boy ?
[21:14] <chancellorsmith> :-)
[21:14] <chancellorsmith> then i can maybe integrate into my rails app
[21:14] * chancellorsmith excited
[21:14] <gordonDrogon> anyone know which xserver is used on the Pi?
[21:15] <DaQatz> Finally got an email from farnell says they ship my pi at the end of the month.
[21:16] * Neutron_ (~Neutron@163-7-11.connect.netcom.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] * mdavey (~chatzilla@host217-35-75-188.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] * Neutron__ (~Neutron@80.202.83.120) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:20] * IT_Sean is still waiting for the email that says that he can ORDER
[21:20] * IT_Sean sighs
[21:20] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-177-229.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] * Neutron__ (~Neutron@120.80-202-83.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] <dmsuse> feel free to forward that email to me when you get it
[21:21] * mhcerri (Marcelo@nat/ibm/x-fszuoungzhjjembh) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
[21:21] <IT_Sean> dmsuse: ... ... no.
[21:21] <DaQatz> Well IT_Sean I ordered first night. And people who order after me already have theirs.
[21:21] <chancellorsmith> now i can see Bus 001 Device 004: ID 041e:400d Creative Technology, Ltd Webcam PD1001 anyone know how i access it - maybe as /dev/video0
[21:21] * mhcerri (Marcelo@nat/ibm/x-msphvhnhasypewmh) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] <dmsuse> IT_Sean: but i mean, you could :P i won't mind...
[21:21] * IT_Sean wants a slice of pi
[21:22] <IT_Sean> dmsuse: i COULD. But, i'm not going to.
[21:22] <IT_Sean> get your won pi
[21:22] <IT_Sean> *own
[21:22] <BassoW520> the rp feels quite slow :O
[21:22] <dmsuse> your just being shy about it ;)
[21:22] <DaQatz> BassoW520, It is slow
[21:22] <dmsuse> BassoW520: it is lol
[21:22] <_av500_> slow pie is slow
[21:22] <DaQatz> 700mhz arm11 isn't "beefy"
[21:22] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:23] <dmsuse> i don't plan to use X at all with mine, so it will be super fast :D
[21:23] <IT_Sean> I don't care. i don't need beefy. I want a pi, dammit!!!!!
[21:23] <DaQatz> Mind compared to others of the same size and proce, it's damn fast.
[21:23] <DaQatz> price*
[21:23] * Piezochem is now known as Pyrat
[21:24] * Behold (~behold@d83-183-177-229.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[21:24] <BassoW520> dang
[21:24] * BeholdMy- (~behold@d83-183-177-229.cust.tele2.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:24] <BassoW520> just using the TTY is sooo much better
[21:25] * Neutron_ (~Neutron@163-7-11.connect.netcom.no) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:25] <gordonDrogon> depends what you need to do!
[21:25] <GabrialDestruir_> Only thing I got back from farnell is an automated "HEY Your item will arrive on this week"
[21:25] <BassoW520> what can i use to test hw video playback?
[21:26] <gordonDrogon> hm. dunno - not tried to stream video on mine yet!
[21:26] * BeholdMy- (~behold@d83-183-177-229.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Changing host)
[21:26] * BeholdMy- (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:26] * BeholdMy- is now known as Behold
[21:27] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:28] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@d83-183-177-229.cust.tele2.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:28] * neure (~timo@178.111.17.79) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:28] * plugwash slaps qt arround a bit with a large trout
[21:28] <neure> hi
[21:28] <gordonDrogon> poor trout.
[21:29] <neure> what should i order from amazon?
[21:29] <IT_Sean> O_o
[21:29] <neure> is there a shopping list somewhere?
[21:29] <GabrialDestruir_> You should order me a copy of GW2 >.>
[21:29] <IT_Sean> neure: a power supply for your raspi
[21:29] <gordonDrogon> other shops are avalable...
[21:29] <GabrialDestruir_> or did you mean specifically?
[21:29] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:29] <neure> IT_Sean, ok.. got that one.. which SD card would be best?
[21:32] * namfonos (~boris@108-194-22-242.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[21:32] <neure> mm
[21:32] <chancellorsmith> i have a 2 gig image on my 4 gig card, would like to free up the space for the root partition but it looks a bit scary
[21:32] <neure> and for internet
[21:32] <neure> any recommended usb ethernet adapter?
[21:32] <GabrialDestruir_> I guess tomorrow I'll call Newark and try and get ahold of someone via them at farnell
[21:32] <gordonDrogon> chancellorsmith, have a look here: https://projects.drogon.net/raspberry-pi/initial-setup1/
[21:32] <neure> oh and good usb hub as well
[21:33] <gordonDrogon> powered hub.
[21:33] <chancellorsmith> gordonDrogon: that is useful??? am following it
[21:34] * cjoe (~customerj@fibhost-66-7-177.fibernet.hu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:34] * cjoe (~customerj@fibhost-66-7-177.fibernet.hu) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:36] <GabrialDestruir_> Did anyone here order from export.farnell.com?
[21:36] <gordonDrogon> I am running xfce4 under raspbian.
[21:36] <gordonDrogon> and it's working.
[21:37] <chancellorsmith> in your example you're deleting the main partition and recreating
[21:37] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S0106602ad08026fc.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: I am likely going to change locations)
[21:37] <gordonDrogon> yes.
[21:37] <gordonDrogon> doing it live too.
[21:37] <gordonDrogon> :)
[21:37] <chancellorsmith> i'd just like to resize it and maintain the system, guess that's tricky
[21:37] <gordonDrogon> make sure power doesn't go :)
[21:38] <gordonDrogon> yes, you need to resize it into a bigger partition, so delete and re-create the partition...
[21:38] <chancellorsmith> but you lose the data ?
[21:38] <gordonDrogon> you shouldn't
[21:39] <chancellorsmith> really???hmmm now that is interesting
[21:39] * shellac (~pldms@cpc6-aztw25-2-0-cust83.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:39] <gordonDrogon> deleting the partition just changes some numbers in the partiyion table.
[21:39] <chancellorsmith> might give it a go
[21:39] <gordonDrogon> you then re-create the partition with a new end
[21:39] <gordonDrogon> same start.
[21:39] <chancellorsmith> nothings that important on the pi - i'm playing around with it in these early days
[21:39] <chancellorsmith> i see
[21:40] <gordonDrogon> indeed - the worst that can happen isthat you need to re-write the SD card.
[21:40] <chancellorsmith> i'll have a go in a mo
[21:40] <chancellorsmith> first - food!
[21:40] <chancellorsmith> yeah - that's no biggy
[21:40] <chancellorsmith> ta
[21:41] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[21:41] <neure> still looking for SD card advice, which one?
[21:42] <gordonDrogon> go for a relatively cheap one to start with - there seems to be confusion about speeds and what works and what doesn't.
[21:42] <gordonDrogon> I'm using Kingston class 4, 4GB devices.
[21:43] <neure> should i get usb wireless?
[21:43] <neure> confusion?
[21:43] <neure> whats known to work?
[21:43] <gordonDrogon> if you have hardwired then stick with it initially.
[21:43] <gordonDrogon> yes, confusion in what SDs work and what don't.
[21:44] <neure> would 8Gb work?
[21:44] <nid0> i've got an 8gb sandisk ultra class 6 in mine which works just fine
[21:45] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:46] * jmontleon (~jmontleo@pool-98-118-83-7.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
[21:46] <neure> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sandisk-Ultra-20MB-SDHC-Card/dp/B000QUUFRM
[21:46] <neure> something like that?
[21:47] <neure> doesnt say which class though
[21:47] <gordonDrogon> 8GB will work - but you might never use it all...
[21:47] <gordonDrogon> hexxeh - you there?
[21:47] <neure> oh it does say class 6
[21:47] <neure> great
[21:47] <gordonDrogon> mpthompson, ?
[21:48] * tuopppi (vaherkos@amadeus.cc.tut.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:48] <GabrialDestruir_> I have a 8GB class 10 I ordered off of newegg waiting for mine .-.
[21:48] <GabrialDestruir_> just have to wait for it to arrive
[21:48] <gordonDrogon> lets hope it works - some aren't.
[21:49] <IT_Sean> aye, some class 10 cards won't work.
[21:49] <IT_Sean> Probably better to use that class 10 in something else, and get a 'lower' class card for the pi
[21:49] <GabrialDestruir_> Eh, if it doesn't I can use it for something else.
[21:49] <GabrialDestruir_> It was only 15 bucks anyways
[21:49] <IT_Sean> just sayin'
[21:50] <GabrialDestruir_> We'll just have to see what happens when it arrives.
[21:50] <nid0> neure yeah exactly that
[21:51] <neure> im probably going to need usb card reader for my pc as well
[21:51] <nid0> I actually ordered http://www.scan.co.uk/products/8gb-sandisk-ultra-sdhc-15mb-s-sd-card - theyve got it labelled as a class 4 but what turned up was class 6
[21:51] <nid0> and http://www.scan.co.uk/products/dynamode-usb-cr-1-g-usb-sd-card-reader as the card reader
[21:53] * iccanobif (iccanobif@host226-8-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:54] <GabrialDestruir_> I officially hate farnell
[21:55] * si (~si@unaffiliated/siofwolves) Quit (Quit: hosepipe ban)
[21:57] <gordonDrogon> why?
[21:57] <GabrialDestruir_> They're over charging me and not responding to my emails.
[21:58] <IT_Sean> You might have to call them
[21:58] <neure> ok so i got mains power, powered usb hub and 8 gb sd card
[21:58] <neure> hmm
[21:58] <neure> im going to need HDMI cable as well!
[21:58] <IT_Sean> yes
[21:59] <GabrialDestruir_> that's gonna be a wase of money -sighs-
[21:59] <IT_Sean> or composite. but HDMI > composite
[21:59] <neure> why so?
[21:59] <DaQatz> neure, You also need a rpi
[21:59] <neure> mine is estimated to arrive in 2 weeks
[21:59] <nid0> neure, you can get hdmi cables in poundland
[21:59] <GabrialDestruir_> wastte*
[21:59] <neure> well im already ordering stuff from amazon
[21:59] <neure> so i'll just add to that order
[22:00] <nid0> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wired--up-v1-3A-Plated-Connectors-Cable/dp/B0017RW94A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336593529&sr=8-1
[22:00] <IT_Sean> how much is an hdmi cable on amazon?
[22:00] <nid0> ??1
[22:00] <nid0> ^
[22:00] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:01] <neure> i dont think thats waste of money :)
[22:01] * speculatrix (~speculatr@188.73.28.181) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:01] <IT_Sean> if you can get it for ??1, go for it.
[22:01] <GabrialDestruir_> Oh no, calling farnell is.
[22:01] <neure> hmm
[22:01] <DaQatz> I always wondered we the stores in the US charge $20 to $40 for hdmi cables.
[22:01] <IT_Sean> ohh
[22:01] <neure> actually i might go for the 1m one
[22:01] <neure> i dont need too long cable
[22:01] <nid0> plenty of stores in the uk charge that much and more
[22:02] <GabrialDestruir_> They're higher quality cords?
[22:02] <nid0> eg http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-interconnects/cambridge-audio/hdmi-914-1.5m/camb-hdmi-914-1.5m
[22:02] <GabrialDestruir_> That's the only reason I could imagine.
[22:03] <DaQatz> If only
[22:03] <neure> ive seen cables with "virus protection"
[22:03] <nid0> yes theyll be much higher quality construction but its basically a myth that it makes a particularly big difference to the end result
[22:03] <gordonDrogon> I got a 3m hdmi cable plus a hdmi to dvi convertor for 20 quid in a local shoppie.
[22:03] <IT_Sean> buy the cheapest cable you can find that has the connectivity features you want, and buy it
[22:03] <IT_Sean> if you can get one for ??1, get that.
[22:03] <GabrialDestruir_> The differences supposedly between like a 20 dollar cord and a 60 is like
[22:03] <gordonDrogon> could have gotten it cheaper online, but I didn't really care at the time.
[22:03] <GabrialDestruir_> speed and stuff
[22:04] <DaQatz> Many of the more costly cables are the exact same cable. Made by the same manufacturer.
[22:04] <nid0> admittedly most of the ??1 cables are 1.3 rather than 1.4 so no ethernet or 3d, but who honestly needs them
[22:04] <DaQatz> Only diff is who is selling it.
[22:04] <mjr> this is EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQuest+-+Coffee+6.6%27+HDMI+Cable+-+Brown/Black/1267646.p?skuId=1267646&id=1218245470758&ci_src=11138&AID=10474050&PID=4169658&SID=c3t3f4b51iqj&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestbuy.com%2Fsite%2FAudioQuest%2B-%2BCoffee%2B6.6%2527%2BHDMI%2BCable%2B-%2BBrown%2FBlack%2F1267646.p%3FskuId%3D1267646%26id%3D1218245470758%26ci_src%3D11138&ref=39&CJPID=4169658&loc=01#BVRRWidgetID
[22:04] <IT_Sean> the raspi doesn't support ethernet over hdmi anyway, so...
[22:04] <GabrialDestruir_> I've seen more costly cords claim they can get high speeds and what not.
[22:04] <IT_Sean> an hdmi 1.3 cable will be just fine
[22:04] <IT_Sean> you would get no benefit from a 1.4 cable
[22:05] * jumpkick (~anonymous@206.214.243.114.epikip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:05] <GabrialDestruir_> wtf
[22:05] <IT_Sean> ?
[22:05] <GabrialDestruir_> 700 dollars for an HDMI cord?
[22:05] <IT_Sean> O_O
[22:05] * stevepdp (~stevepdp@fsf/member/stevepdp) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:05] <DaQatz> It's because they labeled it audiophile.
[22:06] <DaQatz> Yes because the bits will come out different in their special cable.
[22:06] <mjr> GabrialDestruir_, seems legit!
[22:06] <passstab> i know someone who fell for it
[22:06] <TopherBrink> extra 0's and 1's
[22:06] <GabrialDestruir_> My gods...
[22:06] * passstab giggles
[22:06] <GabrialDestruir_> That's just horrible.
[22:07] <IT_Sean> people who would fall for that are idiots, and deserve to be out 700$s
[22:07] <DaQatz> I need to start selling wire.
[22:07] <GabrialDestruir_> I can't imagine living a life of an audiophile who's so obsessed with sound or w/e
[22:07] <GabrialDestruir_> that they'd pay 700 bucks for a cord
[22:07] <politoed> "What's not so great: It's half the size of a cable twice its size.
[22:07] <politoed> "
[22:08] <IT_Sean> that said... i have done blind comparisons... and with the right audio equipment, i CAN hear the difference between good cables and crap ones.
[22:08] <IT_Sean> but, paying THT much is stupid
[22:08] <nid0> that cable's a bit of an oddity, its got a built in active eq (which adds huge cost) but theyre only usually used for *long* cords, whereas that one seems to be 2m :s
[22:09] <nid0> http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-interconnects/cambridge-audio/hdmi-914-15m/camb-hdmi-914-15m
[22:09] <nid0> example of a legitimately expensive one like that
[22:09] * IT_Sean wants to go home and listen to music now
[22:09] <GabrialDestruir_> I have to admit....
[22:09] <IT_Sean> damn you all
[22:09] <GabrialDestruir_> some of these reviews on this?
[22:09] <GabrialDestruir_> Are hilarious
[22:10] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[22:10] * speculatrix (~speculatr@188.73.28.181) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[22:11] <gordonDrogon> if you want *expensive* stuff... Just look at the russandrews site...
[22:11] <gordonDrogon> How about ?3000 for a mains lead...
[22:11] <gordonDrogon> http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?src=google&lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=1564&customer_id=PAA0883079711269WPQEFBOVWWOQPUVT
[22:11] <IT_Sean> ??3000!!??
[22:11] <IT_Sean> I've bought CARS for less!
[22:12] <GabrialDestruir_> that's just the 1M cord too
[22:12] * insane^ (~insane@188-192-121-203-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:12] <DaQatz> But IT_Sean you can HEAR the diff!
[22:13] <GabrialDestruir_> the 2M cord is 4000
[22:13] <IT_Sean> i highly doubt it
[22:13] <GabrialDestruir_> Closer to 5,000 actually
[22:13] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:13] <DaQatz> After all it's a quality POWER CORD. That def affects your sound.
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[22:14] * mike_ is now known as Guest16928
[22:14] <IT_Sean> Unless the sheething is spun from only the silkiest enchanted unicorn pubes, there is NO reason for that to cost more than a tenner.
[22:15] <corbomite> unicorn pubes
[22:15] <IT_Sean> _enchanted_ unicorn pubes.
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[22:16] <GabrialDestruir_> I seriously can't believe a 700 dollar cable would be any different then a 20 dollar cable .-.
[22:16] <neure> what do you think
[22:16] <neure> am i going to need mouse and keyboard?
[22:17] <DaQatz> Not if you do ssh
[22:17] <dmsuse> isnt it made of gold?
[22:17] * passstab (~coplon@c-68-80-37-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:17] <DaQatz> I personally will rarely use a monitor/keyboard/mouse on it
[22:17] <GabrialDestruir_> No it's silver plated.....
[22:17] <GabrialDestruir_> xD
[22:17] <DaQatz> Though I will at times to test some progs
[22:18] <GabrialDestruir_> Apparently you can even get professional installation.....
[22:18] <chancellorsmith> how do i run a command at boot
[22:19] <chancellorsmith> gordonDrogon: btw - your resize thing worked a treat, many thanks??? nice??? /dev/mmcblk0p2 3.7G 1.6G 2.0G 45% /
[22:19] <DaQatz> To plug it into the wall?
[22:19] <GabrialDestruir_> Personally if I was working Geek Squad and saw someone had bought this and then wanted me to install it....
[22:19] * [TNM]Roban (TNMRoban@90-227-25-142-no68.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:19] <GabrialDestruir_> I'd have a hard time keeping a straight face.
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[22:21] <gordonDrogon> chancellorsmith, ok, neat. do the fstab changes too - they're hopefully worth it.
[22:21] <nid0> well, more likely most people would be green with envy, anyone buying a $700 cable is probably gonna be connecting it up to a $50,000 home theatre in their $5 million house
[22:21] <chancellorsmith> gordonDrogon: did em'
[22:21] <chancellorsmith> :-)
[22:23] <GabrialDestruir_> If I had 5 million dollars to spend on a house, I'd live in a trailer....
[22:24] <IT_Sean> But i'd be a really nice trailer, right?
[22:24] <IT_Sean> :p
[22:24] <GabrialDestruir_> Yep top of the line silver bullet!
[22:24] <GabrialDestruir_> >.>
[22:24] <GabrialDestruir_> xD
[22:24] <DaQatz> Meh I would probably go with a double wide.
[22:24] <DaQatz> Storage room
[22:25] <GabrialDestruir_> I'd do it just to screw with people.....
[22:25] <DaQatz> And not to big to maintain
[22:25] <GabrialDestruir_> buy up some land.... live in a trailer....
[22:25] <GabrialDestruir_> But have like a secret underground Theatre/Gaming room
[22:25] <GabrialDestruir_> -nods-
[22:25] <DaQatz> GabrialDestruir_, You can probably do that even now.
[22:25] <IT_Sean> meh, screw a house. If i had the sort of money where i didn't have to worry about working, i'd get an offroad capable camer, and drive it around the world.
[22:25] * Syliss_ (~Syliss@adsl-108-75-47-45.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:26] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[22:26] <GabrialDestruir_> By theatre gaming room.....
[22:26] * Syliss_ (~Syliss@adsl-108-75-47-45.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:26] * Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-48-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[22:26] <GabrialDestruir_> I mean Imax style
[22:26] <GabrialDestruir_> xD
[22:27] <DaQatz> http://imgur.com/gallery/ICpgm
[22:27] <GabrialDestruir_> "You've got a five million dollar home? I live in a trailer..... but I have a private Imax theatre, what not?"
[22:27] <GabrialDestruir_> now*
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[22:28] <GabrialDestruir_> Could probably even put in a balcony and turn the huge space where the seats would go in a normal imax into a proper gaming arcade/table games room
[22:28] <GabrialDestruir_> >.>
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[22:59] <gamegeek> hi http://i.imgur.com/Jpwem.png
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[22:59] * danfoshizzle (danfoshizz@02db2b29.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:59] <gamegeek> im making my own key beord for this thing wood this be good?
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[23:00] <Kostic> Depends on your definition of 'good'....
[23:00] <gamegeek> can this work
[23:00] <gordonDrogon> lot of work to make a keyboard...
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[23:00] <gordonDrogon> no reason why it won't work...
[23:00] <Kostic> and then you must test it with the system
[23:00] <gamegeek> how wood u do it to have a good keybeord
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[23:01] <gordonDrogon> I bought one - standard USB keyboard..
[23:01] <gamegeek> its arduino based so it has usb out
[23:01] * ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:01] <Kostic> ie. I doubt it but there is a chance you'll have to write some bits to make kernel able to communicate with it.
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[23:01] <Kostic> Go for it... You will learn something while building it at least. :D
[23:02] <gamegeek> ?
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[23:02] <gordonDrogon> is it a keypad for gaming type input?
[23:02] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:02] <Kostic> What '?'?
[23:02] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:02] <gamegeek> no its for a case
[23:02] * kloeri (~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:03] * n1x0n (nixon@n1x0n-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:03] <Kostic> If you build a keyboard you will at least learn something... Easily understandable...
[23:03] <Kostic> sigh
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[23:04] <gamegeek> sude i make it simpler?
[23:04] <Mr_Rpi> anyone know if there are some large packages with the debian dist that is a no brainer to remove... for space
[23:04] <D34TH> actually
[23:04] <D34TH> install localepurge
[23:04] * Hexxeh (u1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jttyfcyukklrgbia) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:04] <Mr_Rpi> tnx
[23:06] <gordonDrogon> just get a 4GB SD card ;-)
[23:06] <neure> what distros are good?
[23:06] <Mr_Rpi> have to due with a 2gb until friday
[23:06] * Hexxeh (u1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jkbonvjduyhtkuqg) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:06] <gordonDrogon> ah, mr Hexxeh !
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[23:07] <gordonDrogon> neure, what distros have you used?
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[23:08] <neure> gordonDrogon, on desktop, lubuntu
[23:09] <neure> Angstrom on beagleboard
[23:09] <gordonDrogon> neure, probably do with debian on the Pi then (presuming that's what the question was for!)
[23:09] * sajimon (~sajimon@valhalla.walgard.com.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:09] <gordonDrogon> I suspect most people are doing with debian to start with.
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[23:13] <Mr_Rpi> damn ... that didnt seem to do much!
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[23:41] <SBeans> question
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[23:41] <gordonDrogon> answer?
[23:41] <SBeans> when I do shift+2 on my Pi I get the wrong keys
[23:42] <SBeans> is my locale wrong?
[23:42] <DaQatz> Annoyed retort,
[23:42] <_av500_> remark
[23:42] <SBeans> it's all fudged
[23:42] <SBeans> is it us?
[23:42] <gordonDrogon> your keymap is wrong.
[23:42] <SBeans> keymap!"
[23:42] <gordonDrogon> do you get a double-quote with shift- 2 rather than an @ symbol?
[23:43] <_av500_> that would be correct :)
[23:43] <SBeans> that ^
[23:43] <gordonDrogon> sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
[23:43] <SBeans> my @ is shift 2, my hash shift-3
[23:43] <gordonDrogon> assuming your running debian.
[23:43] <SBeans> lol, defo dont use sudo ;)
[23:43] <SBeans> nop
[23:43] <SBeans> arch :/
[23:44] <gordonDrogon> whatever. I just googled for it.
[23:44] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit ()
[23:44] <SBeans> cools
[23:44] <gordonDrogon> Well, you google for arch linux change keyboard layout
[23:44] <SBeans> I have been googling, but was just wondering if anybody had a good answer and explenation
[23:44] * _av500_ just swaps key caps....
[23:45] <gordonDrogon> the explanation is that the person who put the arch installation together is probably in the UK
[23:45] <gordonDrogon> where shift 2 is " and shift 3 is ?
[23:46] <SBeans> this is teh opposite
[23:46] <SBeans> it's US format
[23:46] <SBeans> (I guess)
[23:46] <SBeans> or european
[23:46] <gordonDrogon> what we're up against is that there is no "bios", so no way to boot from standard installation media, so you need to use an image that's pre-prepared for you.
[23:46] <SBeans> i.e. not UK
[23:46] <gordonDrogon> then the person who put Arch together is in the US :)
[23:46] <SBeans> I see
[23:46] <gordonDrogon> the net effect is the same.
[23:46] <SBeans> but surely it's just a config file?
[23:46] <SBeans> idd
[23:47] * _av500_ demands RASPBIOS
[23:47] <gamegeek> where can i find the exact sizes of the pi?
[23:47] <gordonDrogon> 3.1415927 is usually good enough.
[23:47] <SBeans> http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs
[23:48] <SBeans> "The Raspberry Pi measures 85.60mm x 53.98mm x 17mm, with a little overlap for the SD card and connectors which project over the edges. It weighs 45g."
[23:48] <gordonDrogon> :)
[23:48] <gordonDrogon> There was a forum post with the board layout sizes, etc.
[23:52] <carldani> gordonDrogon: have you ever seen "standard installation media" for ARM?
[23:54] <carldani> _av500_: You don't want anything like a BIOS (crufty, slow, buggy) near the Raspi. Believe me, I wrote lowlevel drivers and firmware stuff for a living some time ago.
[23:54] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] <gordonDrogon> carldani, nope... but this is the first arm thingy I've used... (other than mobile phones!)
[23:55] <Thorn__> that's utter crap, you were born with two (hopefully) !
[23:55] <gordonDrogon> Hoho...
[23:55] <plugwash> you don't want anything as crufty as a PC bios but it would be really nice to have something that could describe the hardware to the kernel so we didn't need a shedload of different kernels
[23:55] <plugwash> and something that would let the user easilly select between boot options
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[23:56] <des2> It is what it is.
[23:56] * Mr_Rpi (~CG@c83-253-191-14.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Quit: L??mnar)
[23:56] <Da|Mummy> will RPI run diablo3?
[23:56] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] <des2> Yes but in seconds/frame not frames/decond.
[23:57] <Thorn__> uhm, no linux client, no wine on arm
[23:57] <Thorn__> am i missing something?
[23:58] <SBeans> grrrrr, stupid terminal keyboard, luckiy ssh has this for now
[23:58] <gordonDrogon> recompile diablo3 for armhf :)
[23:59] * finnx (~sheppards@99-39-251-198.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:59] <a_c_r_> dunno why diablo3 wouldn't run. ?? runs the hell out of rage

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