#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-08-01

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * ebswift (kvirc@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:00] <Kanerix> this thing is also pretty low power, meaning I can run it off a mobile power supply
[0:00] * PiBot sets mode +v ebswift
[0:00] <Kanerix> in addition to running the motors
[0:01] <Kanerix> the motors I have, though, are uneven. It'd be better to have newer motors, but I don't know if they've got control circuitry or if they're just straight up 9 or 12 volts or whatever
[0:01] <ziltro2> Ah all this talk about Lego makes me want to get mine out.
[0:01] <ziltro2> I haven't used it in yeears.
[0:02] <Gabrialdestruir> Huh.... oh, biz's design is up for free.
[0:02] <Kanerix> Given the nature of their mindstorms system, neither would surprise me
[0:02] <Kanerix> ziltro2, makes for a great modular robotics chassis
[0:02] <Kanerix> one that's hard to permanently damage ;)
[0:02] <ziltro2> Yeah I guess it would
[0:02] <ziltro2> Although that's more Technic?
[0:02] <gordonDrogon> Kanerix, I've used a 9v geared motor driven by a Pi..
[0:02] <Gabrialdestruir> I guess the market for selling lego instructions for a Pi case is...
[0:03] <gordonDrogon> Kanerix, lots online - most Lego motors now are 9v.
[0:03] <Gabrialdestruir> non-existant xD
[0:03] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/gertfan.jpg
[0:03] <plugwash> The NTX motors are DC motors with seperate outputs for slotted optos to track rotation speed, pretty much all the other lego motors are just straight DC motors with no feedback
[0:03] <ziltro2> I think I have 6v and possibly 9v Lego motors
[0:03] <ziltro2> s
[0:03] <Kanerix> ziltro2, yeah, but the chassis has to be built out of something, and normal legos work fine for that. The technic stuff is just the moving parts
[0:03] <gordonDrogon> 6v must be quite old..
[0:03] <Gabrialdestruir> I suppose I 'll just post them up and setup a donation link.
[0:04] <ziltro2> I mostly have Technic actually.
[0:04] <plugwash> Kanerix, not really, regular lego doesn't really have the strength to make a good chassis
[0:04] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[0:04] <plugwash> a frame built out of technic is far stronger
[0:04] <Kanerix> plugwash, ooh, the optics to track rotation speed would be very useful
[0:04] <Kanerix> well, depends on how you design it, really
[0:04] * Timmmaaaayyy (~Timmmaaaa@cpe-74-73-185-27.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Timmmaaaayyy)
[0:04] <Berry_HK> is there a way to power up the RasPI after shutdown without removing the power plug?
[0:04] <ziltro2> I remember making a 6 wheel drive car at school from lego technic.
[0:05] <plugwash> the problem with regular lego is it's very weak in the vertical dimension
[0:05] <ziltro2> We were challenged to make something whuch could get over a rock.
[0:05] <ziltro2> It took about 10 minutes. :)
[0:05] <Kanerix> plugwash, it doesn't have to be all that strong to roam around stupidly
[0:05] <ziltro2> Unless it is roaming on Mars.
[0:05] <Gabrialdestruir> Curious, has anyone here used a full encased lego design? Like Biz's design here? http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1354
[0:05] <plugwash> this is not a problem if you are building a model house or something but for a larger vehicle chassis you really need that vertical strength
[0:05] <Berry_HK> is there a way to power up the RasPI after shutdown without removing the power plug? no one?
[0:06] <Kanerix> my chassis has a lot of normal stuff to house the battery pack, the circuitry, etc, but the frame is built from technic stuff
[0:06] <plugwash> or it will just fall apart the first time it crashes into something
[0:06] <Kanerix> Berry_HK, dunno
[0:06] <ziltro2> There was that real house made from Lego.
[0:06] <Berry_HK> i will post it on the forum
[0:06] <ziltro2> James May? I think
[0:06] <Kanerix> plugwash, this isn't exactly going to be moving very fast...
[0:06] <Kanerix> also, I'm designing it to AVOID collisions
[0:07] <ziltro2> Ah it is more fun to make it cause collisions
[0:07] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea, James May did a house of full legos.
[0:08] <Kanerix> It's not moving fast enough to actually damage itself
[0:09] <Kanerix> plugwash, the scale at which I'm building this thing is probably much smaller than you're thinking
[0:09] <plugwash> yeah smaller models it's less critical but if your chassis is small then that limits what you can have on it ;)
[0:10] <ziltro2> So not a model mobile launch platform.
[0:10] <Gabrialdestruir> Hmm...
[0:11] <plugwash> if you want things like working multi-joint arms on a mobile platform then the platform has to be pretty big
[0:11] <Gabrialdestruir> Now there's an interesting idea, create a little lego racing car.
[0:11] <plugwash> mmm, using the lego race buggy motors........
[0:11] <Kanerix> One sec
[0:12] <Gabrialdestruir> with the Pi as a controller and that could alternatively be controlled via like an android app
[0:12] * Dyskette (~Dysk@cpc6-warw15-2-0-cust464.3-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:12] <ziltro2> Or a hand-held remote control thing.
[0:12] <plugwash> the big problem with trying to build lego race cars is steering
[0:12] <plugwash> lego have never released a standalone motor that is designed to drive steering
[0:13] <Kanerix> http://kanerix.net/lego-robot.jpg
[0:13] <Kanerix> I drive it like a tank
[0:13] <Kanerix> two independent wheel sets
[0:13] <plugwash> so unless you use third party motors or one of the big lego blocks that include steering it's very difficult to make a good lego model with conventional steering
[0:13] <Gabrialdestruir> Nah...
[0:13] <Kanerix> pardon the hack wiring job
[0:13] <Gabrialdestruir> Just do tank style steering.
[0:13] * prpplague (~danders@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:13] <plugwash> tank style drive works but it's not really a good choice for trying to make something fast and light afaict
[0:14] <Kanerix> why would you even try to design something to move fast when the chassis is lego?
[0:14] <Kanerix> I mean, seriously guy?
[0:14] <Gabrialdestruir> That'd be an interesting challenge.
[0:14] <Kanerix> Buy an R/C car and convert it
[0:15] <Gabrialdestruir> Create a lego racer using only legitimate lego parts/motors/etc with the exception of the controller.
[0:15] <plugwash> legos own RC race buggy was pretty fast, it's just that the RC receiver, battery pack and steering motor were all one unit
[0:15] * gerrynjr (~gerrynjr@gentoo/user/gerrynjr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] * PiBot sets mode +v gerrynjr
[0:15] <plugwash> so it was pretty inflexible
[0:15] * fredreichbier (~fred@unaffiliated/fredreichbier) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] * PiBot sets mode +v fredreichbier
[0:16] <ziltro2> I remember the steering woes
[0:16] <ziltro2> I wonder if I ever managed to gear it own enough
[0:16] <ziltro2> Usually you could do left or right, and nothing in between
[0:17] <Kanerix> That's why you go with tank style steering =p
[0:17] <plugwash> the nxt motor has enough precision for steering afaict the trouble is it only has relative position control
[0:17] <Kanerix> so much simpler
[0:17] <Kanerix> the motors I'm using now have no position feedback, so the thing drives in an arc
[0:17] <plugwash> for steering you REALLY want absoloute position control or you have to recalibrate every time you reboot the controller
[0:17] <Gabrialdestruir> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcNujqawA4o
[0:17] <Gabrialdestruir> That's just cool
[0:18] <Kanerix> I'm trying to build an opto-interrupter to get control feedback and set up an auto-adjustment algorithm to pwm the motors at an even speed
[0:18] <ziltro2> Two motors, one per side, would work?
[0:18] <Kanerix> ... did no one look at the link?
[0:18] <Kanerix> yes, it has two motors
[0:19] <ziltro2> Oh okay. Nah didn't feel like videos.
[0:19] <ziltro2> Or I missed another link, okay.
[0:20] <Gabrialdestruir> He posted a link of his bot.
[0:20] <Gabrialdestruir> Rocking the tank style steering
[0:20] <ziltro2> ooh-err
[0:20] <ziltro2> hmm is it?
[0:20] <gordonDrogon> Berry_HK, there is a reset pin that will reboot it.
[0:20] <Kanerix> I don't use youtube links =p
[0:20] <ziltro2> Tanks with two engines would work like that
[0:20] <Gabrialdestruir> Do the silver pieces on front actually do anything?
[0:20] <Gabrialdestruir> Or just for show?
[0:20] <ziltro2> old ones brake one side.
[0:20] <gordonDrogon> Berry_HK, however access to it it tricky but AIUI not impossible.
[0:21] <Kanerix> That's a sonic rangefinder
[0:21] <ziltro2> They look like ulrasonic transducers
[0:21] <Gabrialdestruir> Ah.
[0:21] <Kanerix> so it knows how far it can go before it has to turn
[0:21] <ziltro2> Which you can use to listen to bats.
[0:21] <Kanerix> or that
[0:21] <gordonDrogon> build an adder/subtractor gearbox - keeps things going straight that are meant to go straight.
[0:21] <Kanerix> the thing uses i2c, too
[0:21] <gordonDrogon> easy to do in lego with 2 differentials.
[0:22] <ziltro2> I made a 3-speed gearbox in lego
[0:22] <Gabrialdestruir> Cause I was gonna say, if they didn't have a purpose, it'd be interesting to see like a couple of Pi cams or something setup there.
[0:22] <Gabrialdestruir> Give you a visual output
[0:22] <Kanerix> Gabrialdestruir, that's the idea, eventually
[0:23] <Kanerix> That design was before I had a pi. I'm redesigning it to run off a battery pack instead, as well
[0:23] <gordonDrogon> with adder/subtractor, one motor controls forward/back, the other motor control turns.
[0:23] <ziltro2> I don't see the obsession with cameras. seriously it's been done do death.
[0:23] <Gabrialdestruir> I suppose once all the wiring is done and you get your Pi in there and all that fun stuff you could just pop one on top.
[0:23] <gordonDrogon> so you can turn on the spot, or in a curve...
[0:23] <Kanerix> The concept of processing optical input for navigational steering is very interesting
[0:24] <Kanerix> gordonDrogon, or you can do two motors, tank style, keep it bloody simple, and rotate in place
[0:24] <Gabrialdestruir> Plus you could always use the video to get feedback.
[0:24] <Kanerix> the gearbox for that would be huge compared to motors hooked to drive axels
[0:24] * Lostsouls (~nono@s529db820.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:25] <Kanerix> yeah, I can't wait until they release the camera
[0:25] <Gabrialdestruir> Which would then allow you to make adjustments as needed in any automated system.
[0:26] <gordonDrogon> Kanerix, real tanks use adder subtractor drives with 2 differentials...
[0:26] <Gabrialdestruir> I wonder if I should invest in another lego case like the one I already have but with Technic bricks instead.
[0:26] <gordonDrogon> Kanerix, the issue with just sticking 2 motors is that it's harder to make it go in a straight line.
[0:26] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:26] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[0:26] <ziltro2> Real tanks have fuel consumption measured in gallons per mile.
[0:28] <gordonDrogon> http://www.technicbricks.com/2008/09/tbs-techtips-17-adder-substractor.html
[0:29] <Gabrialdestruir> Hmm.... now there's an idea.... hook it up with a lithium rechargable + a solar kit on top create a self recharging robot.
[0:30] <Kanerix> can you get 1200 mAh at 5 volts off a solar panel?
[0:31] <ziltro2> On a large enough one, I should think so ;)
[0:31] <gordonDrogon> I've got my big track in bits now - they have a novel way to keep it going in a straight line with 2 motors and no gearbox... they use magnets to keep the motors in sync...
[0:31] <Kanerix> small enough to be portable?
[0:31] <Kanerix> I actually did mention all of this whole problem of driving straight
[0:31] <Kanerix> and how I'm going to solve it
[0:31] * eva_02 (~jsc@pine.chociz.com) Quit (Quit: eva_02)
[0:31] <Kanerix> but nobody seems to be paying attention -_-
[0:32] <gordonDrogon> you can 'break' the magnetic join by spinning both motors in the opposite direction, so you can turn on the spot, or go forwards or backwards, but not execute a radius turn.
[0:32] <gordonDrogon> Kanerix, I'm suggesting ways how to keep going straight ..
[0:32] <Kanerix> and that's not a problem that needs to be solved
[0:32] <Kanerix> =p
[0:32] <gordonDrogon> so what is the problem?
[0:33] <Gabrialdestruir> From my understanding it'd have to be a rather big solar panel, but I was thinking not too long ago about possibility of creating a two battery solar panel setup, it'd charge one battery, but use the other battery for power. Then you could switch and use the charged battery for power while it charges the drained one.
[0:33] <Kanerix> There isn't one. Everyone seems to have gone off on this. I have the problem solved
[0:33] <ziltro2> rotation counters would help? Slow down the faster side?
[0:33] <Kanerix> nobody's paying attention. I wasn't asking for help on this
[0:33] <Gabrialdestruir> lol
[0:33] <gordonDrogon> ok, I missed it then..
[0:33] <Kanerix> You all did
[0:33] <Gabrialdestruir> He totally explained it back there.
[0:33] <Kanerix> bloody hell
[0:33] * finnx (~sheppards@99-39-251-198.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] * PiBot sets mode +v finnx
[0:34] <gordonDrogon> I don't think I've enough scrollback..
[0:34] <Kanerix> ziltro2, thus the opto-interrupters to measure rotation on each motor and the auto-correction algorithm
[0:35] <ziltro2> Yes, like that.
[0:35] <Kanerix> heh
[0:35] * Jef91 (~jeff@bodhilinux/team/Jef91) has left #raspberrypi
[0:35] <ziltro2> That would do it.
[0:36] <Gabrialdestruir> I wonder if it'd be possible to build like a little wind turbine that was small enough to be portable but efficient enough to charge a battery....
[0:36] <ziltro2> I might need somethning like that for my steam-electri car. Not that I'll ever make it.
[0:36] <Kanerix> I was using a different microcontroller before, and now I'm going to switch it to the pi. I just need to figure out voltage regulation, and possibly use more stable motors
[0:37] <Kanerix> Gabrialdestruir, no. No way in hell that'll work: the energy is generated by holding steady against the wind. Regardless of how big you build it, you'll never have that going properly on a mobile platform
[0:37] <gordonDrogon> ok, so you're after a shaft encoder/opto switch thingy?
[0:37] <Kanerix> gear driven, but same idea
[0:38] <gordonDrogon> feeding into a Pi?
[0:38] <Kanerix> plugwash mentioned an NXT motor piece that has the sensor built into it, which is of interest to me, as it simplifies the construction
[0:39] <Kanerix> and yeah, using the GPIO on the pi to run the parts
[0:39] <Kanerix> motors, sensors, etc
[0:39] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-dev)
[0:39] <gordonDrogon> sure, but you'll over complicate the software. much easier to do it mechanically IMO.
[0:39] <Kanerix> the ultrasonic rangefinder is accessed via i2c, for instance
[0:39] <Kanerix> um, no
[0:40] <gordonDrogon> if you say so.
[0:40] <Kanerix> gordonDrogon, I've been working on this for a long time as a hobby. I've already written the software to take care of it
[0:40] * Delboy_ (~Delboy@141-136-240-51.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy_
[0:40] <gordonDrogon> Kanerix, ok. I used to build robots for a living.
[0:40] <Kanerix> I'm neither foolish nor stupid
[0:40] <plugwash> yes the NXT motors have built in opto sensors, I belive the details are docmented in http://cache.lego.com/Media/Download/Mindstorms2SupportFilesDownloads/otherfiles/download8CFD37F17F7EFCDC412AE7CEBF245C6A/HDK_Download1.zip
[0:40] <gordonDrogon> not saying you are, just suggesting that there are easier ways.
[0:41] <Kanerix> Not in the size required nor in the simplicity of lego
[0:41] <Kanerix> overcomplicating the hardware is no better than overcomplicating the software
[0:42] * Delboy (~Delboy@141-136-241-63.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:42] <Gorroth> anyone do any recent RPi orders off Allied Electronics? i ordered an RPi just after they announced a 4K/day production level
[0:42] <gordonDrogon> hardware has been done an understood for 100's of years though. the differential isn't anything new.
[0:43] <Gorroth> but i haven't received anything yet; Allied Elec hasn't even shipped it
[0:43] <Kanerix> gordonDrogon, and yet, legos
[0:43] <mirf> 4k/day prodcutino now?!
[0:43] * jprvita is now known as jprvita|afk
[0:43] <mirf> woah
[0:43] <Kanerix> why is this such a hard concept?
[0:43] <plugwash> gordonDrogon, true but there are several major downsides to the diff-based add-sub soloution
[0:43] <Kanerix> ^
[0:43] <Gabrialdestruir> I wasn't thinking so much having to hold steady, as mounting it on top of a robot, wasn't sure how feasible that'd be, as the robot moved the air resistance would spin the turbine, etc
[0:44] <gordonDrogon> but if you want to do it with 2 independant motors, then fine - go ahead and do it - you've already got the software...
[0:44] <Kanerix> http://www.technicbricks.com/2008/09/tbs-techtips-17-adder-substractor.html <- look at the complexity of that
[0:44] <gordonDrogon> and the motos are avalable...
[0:44] <plugwash> firstly the diff soloution is bulky, secondly lego mechanisms tend to be pretty lossy so the less mechanism you have the more efficient your model will be, thirdly the diff soloution effectively throws away half your max power because in normal operation only one motor is doing any work
[0:44] <Kanerix> There is NO reason to do something that complex when you can have two motors, one on each side, driving wheels on each side
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[0:44] * PiBot sets mode +v scorphus
[0:45] <Kanerix> and plugwash is very correct here
[0:45] <Kanerix> just because you can doesn't mean you should
[0:45] <gordonDrogon> so why are you asking us about it then?
[0:45] <Kanerix> is it possible to do it mechanically? Yes. Is it feasible? No.
[0:45] <Kanerix> I'm... not... asking...
[0:46] <gordonDrogon> I've built many Lego platforms with that - very fesable. I've also built several industrial moving platforms with the same mechanisms.
[0:46] <Kanerix> I was asking about something completely bloody different, and you're insisting that I'm doing it wrong in my own implementation and instead suggesting something stupidly more complicated than it needs to be and prone to breaking
[0:46] <gordonDrogon> I'm not saying your wrong.
[0:46] <Kanerix> This is a small little lego roaming robot, not a heavy industrial platform
[0:46] <gordonDrogon> but I don't know what you want.
[0:47] <Kanerix> I don't want your help
[0:47] <Kanerix> Let's start there
[0:47] <gordonDrogon> then why didn't you say so?
[0:47] <Kanerix> I did
[0:47] <Kanerix> several times
[0:47] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::661) has left #raspberrypi
[0:47] <gordonDrogon> ok, lets start afresh - you have a little robot with ultrasonic sensors..
[0:47] <gordonDrogon> looks 'cute' ...
[0:48] <Gorroth> i built a sex bot
[0:48] <Gorroth> it is cute
[0:48] <Gabrialdestruir> He wanted to know the power characteristics of Lego motors so he could possibly manipulate them without using the bulky lego controller
[0:48] <Gorroth> i call my sex bot Open Whores
[0:48] <Gorroth> like open source
[0:48] <gordonDrogon> ah right. I've driven lego robots from a Pi.
[0:49] <gordonDrogon> they're 9V and work with PWM just fine.
[0:49] <Gorroth> yeah, that NXT brick sucks
[0:49] <Kanerix> Gabrialdestruir, exactly
[0:49] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/fan1.jpg
[0:49] * M3nti0n is now known as M3nti0n|off
[0:49] <gordonDrogon> there's a Gertboard under the blue lego lid.
[0:49] <Kanerix> Also, I'm working with parts that I already have, save the motors which I'm looking to replace
[0:50] <gordonDrogon> and a standard mindstorms 9v motor being powered from a mains adapter here.
[0:50] <Kanerix> KISS
[0:50] <Gorroth> gordonDrogon: that thing isn't keeping you cool, is it
[0:51] <gordonDrogon> if you can drive one of these big gears: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lego_technic_gears.jpg
[0:51] <gordonDrogon> then you can shine an IR LED through the holes and detect it with a photo diode and use it to count revolutions.
[0:51] <Kanerix> ^ which I'm already doing
[0:51] <gordonDrogon> ok
[0:52] <Kanerix> I love how you keep trying to solve problems that are already worked out
[0:52] <Kanerix> Keep teaching me things I already know. It's a good use of your time.
[0:52] * Kanerix reads the docs plugwash linked
[0:52] <gerrynjr> so, android 4 on rpi... any downloads available?
[0:53] <Kanerix> hmm that'd be interesting
[0:55] <Gabrialdestruir> lol.... Android 4 on Pi?
[0:55] <gerrynjr> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1700
[0:56] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea.... from the fact that says "is coming" as opposed to "is here"
[0:56] <Gabrialdestruir> I don't think it's quite ready for public consumption.
[0:56] <gerrynjr> I would want to help development
[0:56] <gerrynjr> im not public consumption
[0:57] <Kanerix> interesting
[0:57] * Delboy_ is now known as Deloby
[0:57] <Kanerix> Running it without a touch screen sounds like it'd be a little annoying though
[0:57] <gerrynjr> v4 is designed to use a mouse/keyboard as well
[0:58] <Gabrialdestruir> Why don't you just say ICS .-.
[0:58] <gerrynjr> b/c ICS reminds me of IBS aka irritable bowel syndrome
[0:59] <Gabrialdestruir> Though that is pretty smooth, it'd be interesting to see if they do something with OnSkreen for the Pi
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[0:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[0:59] <Gabrialdestruir> That might be the only thing that makes Android on Pi worth it.
[0:59] <Gorroth> why would you want android on the rpi? i don't really understand it
[0:59] <Gorroth> i mean it's on my phone, and it's okay for that
[1:00] <chithead> because it can be done
[1:00] <Gabrialdestruir> I could see the benefits.... like for example if you get the Pi running android and hack it for market and stuff.
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[1:00] <Gabrialdestruir> You've just opened the device up to thousands of developers
[1:01] <Gorroth> i guess
[1:01] <Gorroth> i think those same devs already know how to dev for linux
[1:01] <Gabrialdestruir> Not necessarily...
[1:01] <Gorroth> maybe the ubuntu store will come to rpi
[1:02] <Gabrialdestruir> You don't need to know a whole lot about linux to build android Apps
[1:02] <Gabrialdestruir> I personally would love to see a Ubuntu distro for the Pi
[1:02] <Kanerix> raspbian is close
[1:02] <Kanerix> well
[1:03] <Kanerix> as close as you'll get for a while
[1:03] * XeCrypt is now known as Tuxuser
[1:03] <nputnam> I think a different OS would be more in the spirit of the thing
[1:03] <Gabrialdestruir> Raspbian is Debian, which is nice, but not really Ubuntu, though I suppose something like Gnome Shell or Unity probablly wouldn't work well on the Pi
[1:03] * gerrynjr (~gerrynjr@gentoo/user/gerrynjr) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[1:04] <Gabrialdestruir> So you'd probably want xubuntu or lubuntu
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[1:04] * PiBot sets mode +v argoneus
[1:04] <Gabrialdestruir> I think lubuntu is lxde or w/e
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[1:04] * PiBot sets mode +v firecrackers
[1:04] <argoneus> hey guys
[1:04] <kkimlabs> arch is nice too
[1:04] <argoneus> I tried to run notepad and it caught fire and burned
[1:04] <argoneus> what do I do?
[1:05] <ziltro2> Pour on water, I believe.
[1:05] <Gabrialdestruir> I haven't tried any of the non debian based distros.
[1:05] <firecrackers> did you drop
[1:05] <firecrackers> and rolled?
[1:05] <argoneus> I fed it to my dog
[1:05] * firecrackers (~firecrack@unaffiliated/firecrackers) has left #raspberrypi
[1:05] <Gabrialdestruir> Troll .-.
[1:05] * argoneus (~argoneus@unaffiliated/argoneus) has left #raspberrypi
[1:05] <Gabrialdestruir> Your dog is gonna die now J/s
[1:05] <chithead> they just trolled in #gentoo and possibly elsewhere
[1:05] * [SkG] (~SkG@unaffiliated/skg/x-897332) Quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
[1:06] <ziltro2> Good, one less dog.
[1:06] <Gabrialdestruir> lmao
[1:06] <Gabrialdestruir> Serious question!
[1:06] <Gabrialdestruir> Who knows how to get node.js to compile on Raspbian -.-
[1:07] <ziltro2> Compile? javascript?
[1:08] * RaycisCharles is now known as RaycisCharlesMD
[1:08] <Gabrialdestruir> I've tried just running make, then I looked up the "compiled with, but not" and supposed you had to run a bunch of export commands because I guess Raspbian recently changed from armel to armhf or vice versa or something.
[1:08] <Gabrialdestruir> and read you had*
[1:08] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-24-193-113-179.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:12] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:12] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[1:13] * Meatballs is now known as Meatballs|Away
[1:13] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] * PiBot sets mode +v EiNSTeiN_
[1:14] <Martin`> need a case that can content a arduino and a pi
[1:16] <Gabrialdestruir> Sounds to me like you need a custom built Lego case.
[1:17] <Kanerix> ^ heh
[1:18] <Martin`> hmm I want something more permanent
[1:19] <Gabrialdestruir> A custom built Lego Case.... with glue.
[1:20] <Martin`> :P
[1:20] <Kanerix> hehe
[1:20] <Martin`> I think I go to sleep about it
[1:21] <Gabrialdestruir> Or that putty stuff... that hardens and becomes permanent, legos and that
[1:21] * The_Shadows (~o@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-febadd00-124.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:21] * PiBot sets mode +v The_Shadows
[1:21] <Gabrialdestruir> sugru!
[1:21] <Kanerix> epoxy
[1:21] <The_Shadows> Hello and good night thingy
[1:22] * unknownbliss is now known as UKB|Sleep
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[1:22] * PiBot sets mode +v aheadley
[1:22] <Gabrialdestruir> This BBC Micro Case by ben Heck looks interesting.
[1:24] <bjorn`> SO: Suggestions for a fullscreen webkit based browser?
[1:28] <chithead> I think none of the webkit browsers are usable atm
[1:31] <bjorn`> Maybe I could go with a non-webkit one
[1:31] * Syliss (~Syliss@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[1:31] <bjorn`> As long as it's standards compliant, lightweight and has a config or command line option for full fullscreen
[1:31] <tos9> bjorn`: As soon as I can get my WM to build properly, I plan on trying out luakit :)
[1:32] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-60-229-178-247.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:33] <bjorn`> I see luakit has implemented a :fullscreen() method
[1:33] <bjorn`> so I might have another look at that
[1:33] <bjorn`> Night folks.
[1:33] * satellit (~satellit@bc106151.bendcable.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Obsys
[1:34] <Gabrialdestruir> I think I'd have to get one of these Retro Computer Cases if they could be made to work with a Pi without a lot of Mods to the Pi itself http://revision3.com/tbhs/retro-computer
[1:36] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[1:37] * Milos|Netbook_ (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:39] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[1:42] * Quietlyawesome94 (~chatzilla@adsl-074-184-089-183.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347])
[1:42] * Quietlyawesome94 (~chatzilla@adsl-074-184-089-183.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:42] * PiBot sets mode +v Quietlyawesome94
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[1:44] * PiBot sets mode +v bbotf
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[1:46] * PiBot sets mode +v lupinedk
[1:47] <Syliss> Gabrialdestruir yeah how he removed the sound port
[1:48] * butcher99 (butcher907@cpc12-ipsw1-2-0-cust195.7-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:49] <Gabrialdestruir> I imagine it wouldn't be hard to mod it all so that you can just plug the pieces into existing ports.
[1:50] <Gabrialdestruir> Also I think I'd probably swap the cartridge setup with just the other end of a GPIO ribbon
[1:50] * scrts (~quassel@unaffiliated/scrts) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:51] <Gabrialdestruir> Just cause I imagine it'd be easier to quickly setup a breadboard that way instead of having to get a special cartridge and program all that.
[1:51] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[1:52] <zgreg> anyone here that remember the strange dataloss bug on the /boot partition?
[1:53] <zgreg> I might have a solution
[1:55] <Gabrialdestruir> My Pi is totally underused when compared to the articles on the blog. lol
[1:56] <[SLB]> is there any sound test over hdmi i can do out of the box?
[1:57] <Gabrialdestruir> run a music player
[1:58] <zgreg> modprobe snd-pcm-oss
[1:58] <Gabrialdestruir> A fully automated R2D2, ran by a network of Raspberry Pi >.>
[1:58] <Gabrialdestruir> Omg.... what an idea.
[1:58] <zgreg> cat /dev/urandom >/dev/dsp
[1:58] <zgreg> :3
[1:58] <[SLB]> oh i was trying to pipe it to aplay
[1:58] <[SLB]> let me see
[1:59] <zgreg> well, that should work too
[2:00] <[SLB]> i don't have a dsp device, and pipeing to aplay doesn't work
[2:00] <zgreg> you need to modprobe the oss compatibility layer first
[2:00] <chithead> or use aoss
[2:01] <[SLB]> ah sorry missed that line
[2:01] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:01] <Gabrialdestruir> isn't the proper modprobe for hdmi sudo modprobe snd_bcm2835
[2:01] <Gabrialdestruir> ?
[2:01] * ReggieUK (~ReggieUK@5aca5630.bb.sky.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[2:01] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:01] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[2:02] * Kanerix (~kanerix@reverse.control4.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:03] <[SLB]> lol kernel panic
[2:03] <[SLB]> let's try the other one
[2:03] <zgreg> are you using an old kernel?
[2:03] <zgreg> and/or old firmware?
[2:04] <[SLB]> i guess not, apt-get updated
[2:04] <[SLB]> hm
[2:04] <Gabrialdestruir> As far as I know "sudo modprobe snd_bcm2835" is hdmi sound.
[2:05] <zgreg> Gabrialdestruir: it's ALSA support in general, for both HDMI and analog audio
[2:05] <Gabrialdestruir> Ah.
[2:05] <zgreg> AFAIK, by default it uses HDMI audio if you have a capable HDMI device attached, otherwise analog
[2:06] <Gabrialdestruir> Is it possible to get the Pi to use both? Like two separate sound outputs?
[2:06] <IT_Sean> i don't THINK so.
[2:06] <zgreg> hm I don't know, but it should be possible
[2:06] <IT_Sean> Def not as seperate outputs.
[2:06] <zgreg> if not, it's a software issue
[2:07] * fatpudding (~fatpuddin@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:07] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[2:08] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[2:08] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:08] * PiBot sets mode +v mentar
[2:10] <[SLB]> hm nothing is playing
[2:10] <[SLB]> alsamixer shows the volume control so the card is recognized
[2:11] * Loanshark (48da8508@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[2:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Loanshark
[2:11] <[SLB]> found this page http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=73345
[2:17] <crenn> The Raspberry Pi and Leaflabs Maple Mini is talking.... but there is some crosstalk issues I think
[2:19] * ReggieUK (~ReggieUK@5aca5630.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:19] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[2:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o ReggieUK
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[2:21] * PiBot sets mode +v WASD
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[2:22] * PiBot sets mode +v mwschib
[2:22] * jaxdahl (jaxdahl@ Quit ()
[2:25] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:26] * RaycisCharlesMD (RaycisChar@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit ()
[2:28] <WASD> Can the RPi program a microcontroller like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30rPt802n1k
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[2:54] * Commander1024 (~Commander@Commander1024-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Quit: Bye bye)
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[2:57] <[SLB]> solved, it was the hdmi_drive=2 option
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[2:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[2:59] <zgreg> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1700
[2:59] <zgreg> woah
[3:03] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB2F2F.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:03] * PiBot sets mode +v uen|
[3:06] * cccyRegeaneAway is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
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[3:06] * PiBot sets mode +v taipres
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[3:07] * uen| is now known as uen
[3:07] <taipres> whoever made this channel, good thinking :)
[3:08] <taipres> raspberryPI is awesome
[3:09] <taipres> looking forward to the next batch that come with cameras I believe
[3:09] <SpeedEvil> I hope not.
[3:09] <SpeedEvil> The option of cameras - sure.
[3:10] <taipres> i'd love somemore ram myself :)
[3:11] <neofutur> same here, more ram is the only important point
[3:11] <neofutur> for me the pi is nearly perfect, but need at least 512 mb ram
[3:12] * Lacer (~Lacer@h110.222.130.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Lacer
[3:12] <Gabrialdestruir> I'd say 1GB of Ram + PoE
[3:12] <Gabrialdestruir> That'd make it perfect.
[3:12] <Gabrialdestruir> My understanding is that cameras will only be an option.
[3:12] <taipres> I wonder if the motherboard itself is limited for 256
[3:13] <Gabrialdestruir> You'll be able to buy them, but I don't think they'll be bundled unless RS or Farnell does it themselves
[3:14] <Gabrialdestruir> I wonder how much extra cost there'd be to get Ethernet not hanging off USB and that could power the device.
[3:16] <ReggieUK> I'd prefer them to get solid drivers for their model A usb and leave it up to the user to supply anything else they need
[3:16] <ReggieUK> ethernet, wifi etc.
[3:17] <ReggieUK> a hub into a hub into a hub as it currently stands, doesn't sound sensible to me for some reason
[3:17] <taipres> can't you use external drive via usb?
[3:17] <taipres> currently
[3:17] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[3:17] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea you can.
[3:18] <Gabrialdestruir> If it's powered
[3:18] <Gabrialdestruir> the USB won't power it by itself.
[3:19] <taipres> personally I just want more ram and maybe slighter nicer CPU, those two things could take RasPi to a whole new level
[3:19] <taipres> the two usbs kinda annoyed me but remember there's usb extenders, spliters etc...out there for cheap
[3:19] <taipres> but I remembered rather
[3:20] <Gabrialdestruir> I suppose a single USB wouldn't be bad as long as you got to keep the ethernet, but the ethernet wasn't restricted by being on a USB hub
[3:20] <chithead> if you need only slightly faster cpu, overclocking is possible
[3:21] <taipres> thanks head :) have any of you guys done anything interesting with your pi's? I read about that ocean voyage thing on the forums
[3:21] <taipres> pretty neat if he can pull it off
[3:21] <SpeedEvil> I'd really, really like to buy a nexus 7 motherboard.
[3:21] <taipres> given how crazy waves are though I don't see something that tiny lasting in the deep ocean
[3:22] <Gabrialdestruir> I think it could.
[3:22] <Gabrialdestruir> If you could design it to be sturdy and always float.
[3:23] <SpeedEvil> Always floating is not hard.
[3:23] <SpeedEvil> Floating, and working is much harder.
[3:23] <Gabrialdestruir> Probably have to worry more about it running out of power before it'd sink, I imagine.
[3:23] <SpeedEvil> The Pi uses _stupid_ amounts of power
[3:23] <taipres> even sturdy, i've seen pretty decent size boats on deadilest storm get thrown around like rag dolls, the ocean is no joke
[3:23] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:23] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[3:23] <SpeedEvil> Stupid = comparable to my nexus 7 when doing casual browsing.
[3:24] <taipres> did he say how he was going to power it?
[3:24] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:24] <taipres> the capsizing thing the guy making it said he had no answers for that currently but been thinking about it
[3:24] <SpeedEvil> In principle, a few dozen watt solar panel and some batteries will work. And some managment hardware to turn the Pi off most of teh time
[3:25] <SpeedEvil> You make it uncondtionally stable and self-righting
[3:25] * bbotf (~bbotf@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:25] <taipres> I'd love to make that, could make portable cameras powered by the sun out in the year or in the forest lol
[3:25] <Gabrialdestruir> I imagine a very small compact vessel that'd hold a Pi would be able to take more than a huge boat.
[3:25] <taipres> even have internet connectivity if within wifi range
[3:26] <taipres> why would a little vessel be able to take 20+ foot waves better than a large vessel?
[3:26] <SpeedEvil> taipres: Because it can be _lots_ more robust.
[3:26] <SpeedEvil> taipres: Consider a pingpong ball.
[3:26] <Gabrialdestruir> Less resistance to it too.
[3:27] <taipres> I can see the impact alone breaking it
[3:27] <ziltro2> Have to be a large ping pong ball to fit a RPi inside.
[3:27] <SpeedEvil> Gabrialdestruir: To give some idea of the power required, to keep a Pi up 24*7 in scotland requires about a 200W panel, and a 100Ah 12V battery.
[3:27] <taipres> IDK I suppose the guys going to find out when he puts it to the test
[3:27] <SpeedEvil> And it may go off a couple of times a year at this.
[3:28] <Gabrialdestruir> Hmm....
[3:28] <SpeedEvil> And that's a bare pi, without a camera.
[3:28] <Gabrialdestruir> Isn't scotland one of those places with lots of cloud coverage though?
[3:28] <ziltro2> And in Australia, 10W panel...? ;)
[3:28] <SpeedEvil> In winter, yes.
[3:28] <SpeedEvil> ziltro2: It's not _quite_ that good.
[3:29] <taipres> US $494.74
[3:29] <taipres> for 200 watt, not bad, depending on how long it lasts
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[3:29] * PiBot sets mode +v bbotf
[3:29] <SpeedEvil> 10W will get it working barely in a really good environment. - cloudless.
[3:29] <taipres> seems pretty large though
[3:29] <ziltro2> Yeah, 10W in perfect conditions.
[3:29] <ziltro2> With no losses
[3:29] <taipres> Size:
[3:29] <taipres> 1580x808x35
[3:29] <SpeedEvil> If you need to cope with even slight cloud, you can easily double that.
[3:30] * blkhawk is now known as blkaway
[3:30] <taipres> I take it you guys have dabbled with solar panels?
[3:30] <Gabrialdestruir> 200 watts though I imagine isn't going to be very portable thouggh.
[3:30] <Gabrialdestruir> though*
[3:30] <SpeedEvil> I have 420W.
[3:30] <ziltro2> I wonder how much power you could get from waves
[3:30] * Billiard (~jordan@CPE-24-166-151-228.new.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[3:30] <taipres> you have a 420W panel? how much did that cost
[3:30] <taipres> and what do you power with it?
[3:30] <SpeedEvil> ziltro2: That gets nadty, as you then have mechanical moving bits exposed to the waves.
[3:30] <SpeedEvil> taipres: It's hooked to a grid-tie inverter at teh moment.
[3:30] <ziltro2> Hmm yeah
[3:31] <ziltro2> But there are wave power devces
[3:31] <taipres> A grid-tie inverter (GTI) or synchronous inverter is a special type of power inverter that converts direct current (DC) electricity into alternating current (AC) and feeds it into an existing electrical grid.
[3:31] <SpeedEvil> Sure. The first ones broke a lot.
[3:31] <Gabrialdestruir> It's surprising that you need such a huge panel to power a single Pi
[3:31] <taipres> sounds serious
[3:32] <ziltro2> Ah. Maybe if you "only" need a few hundred watts rather than howevermuch power they were creating?
[3:32] <SpeedEvil> Gabrialdestruir: The problem is dull days you can end up with the peak power for the day being under 20W
[3:32] <taipres> is it large Speed?
[3:33] <SpeedEvil> taipres: Essentially all commercial solar panels have an output of around 150-170W/m^2 at best
[3:33] <taipres> that doesn't seem like very much
[3:33] * Obsys (~Obsys@unaffiliated/obsys) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:33] <SpeedEvil> It's about 15-17% efficiency.
[3:33] <Gabrialdestruir> Couldn't you do an internal wave power system.... it gets knocked around quite a bit I imagine, so using something like I think it was called the Socket Ball
[3:33] <ziltro2> Is that looking to get any better in the near future?
[3:33] <Gabrialdestruir> could help power it
[3:34] <taipres> it'd be neat if this guy had his raseberry pi+panel+gps+camera to send pics of the ocean heh
[3:34] <SpeedEvil> You can get around 40% efficient solar cells, but they cost thousands of times more.
[3:34] <taipres> :s
[3:34] <SpeedEvil> Gabrialdestruir: then what do you do when it's quiet.
[3:34] <ziltro2> Ah well at least they exist... Maybe they'll come down in price eventually?
[3:34] <taipres> what's the deal with the gps anyway, so he track where it is
[3:34] <SpeedEvil> In many ways they don't need to.
[3:34] <SpeedEvil> For other than portable.
[3:34] <taipres> I guess no way to get online in middle of the ocean unless you got serious setup
[3:35] <zgreg> why is ACM so rather expensive (for students)?
[3:35] <SpeedEvil> ACM?
[3:35] <ziltro2> taipres: satellite phone + ????????
[3:35] <Gabrialdestruir> Mmm probably resort to Solar, but yea if it's somehow quiet the entire time it'd die pretty quick...
[3:35] <zgreg> a membership renewal would cost me over 50 USD
[3:35] <SpeedEvil> ziltro2: It's not _that_ bad for small amounts of data - a few K
[3:35] <taipres> ziltro2 even those have ranges, and they typically don't cover the ocean
[3:35] <zgreg> SpeedEvil: http://www.acm.org/
[3:35] <taipres> from maps i've seen anyway
[3:35] <ziltro2> Oh that's not so bad, position data isn't too great
[3:35] <Gabrialdestruir> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i2jvVoxqFg
[3:35] <Gabrialdestruir> The Soccket Ball
[3:36] <SpeedEvil> Also - google findmespot
[3:36] <SpeedEvil> you get canned not-too-expensive satellite position reporters
[3:36] <zgreg> I only need ACM for the digital library, and just a few papers per year
[3:37] <zgreg> *sigh*
[3:37] <Gabrialdestruir> It'd be interesting to see that kind of idea adapted for a phone... move it around a bunch and you're charging your phone.
[3:37] <Gabrialdestruir> lol
[3:37] <zgreg> I should have used the one-year subscription I got with GSoC better :)
[3:38] <SpeedEvil> Gabrialdestruir: It doesn't really work.
[3:38] <taipres> he should still try and take pics, I watched a documentary on the first rovers nasa put on mars, that have lasted much longer than they were designed to, they too of course are solar powered, apparently they got at least one stuck, and no longer have any user for them since controlling from earth costs money, the documentary ended sad though because apparently they didn't build a "turn
[3:38] <taipres> off switch" in
[3:38] <ziltro2> there are watches which wind-up by the movement of your arm.
[3:38] <Gabrialdestruir> How so?
[3:38] <taipres> so these robots will continue to run on mars and call home, just no one will answer :(
[3:38] <SpeedEvil> It works sort-of-OK for watches, but phones need many orders of magnitudes more power.
[3:39] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:39] * PiBot sets mode +v kkimlabs
[3:39] <Gabrialdestruir> So they might not get the charge they need short of being kicked around? lol
[3:40] <SpeedEvil> Gabrialdestruir: To give some context, the battery of your average phone has enough energy to lift it vertically around 10 kilometers.
[3:41] <Gabrialdestruir> Wow....
[3:41] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[3:42] <taipres> The Iridium AxcessPoint connects to the Iridium Extreme or Iridium 9555 satellite phones and provides a low-speed Internet connection anywhere the sky can be seen (it is 100% global). While Internet speeds are very slow (2.5 Kbps without compression), this solution does provide a very portable, easy to use global Internet connection. It also is a personal wireless hotspot for any in-range
[3:42] <taipres> wireless capable device up to 100 feet, such as smartphones for texting, and email.
[3:42] <taipres> $150 for that accesory and over a grand for the phone
[3:42] <taipres> still useful
[3:42] <taipres> 1500 for phone
[3:43] <SpeedEvil> There are somewhat cheaper options.
[3:43] <SpeedEvil> But none are actually cheap.
[3:44] <SpeedEvil> And they tend to come with a year minimum contracts.
[3:44] <Gabrialdestruir> Wouldn't you just need something that blips "Hey I'm here!" so you could keep track of it?
[3:44] <taipres> $45.00 monthly fee, $1.50 per minute plus one-time activation fee.
[3:44] <SpeedEvil> google findmespot
[3:44] <taipres> 1.50 a minute pretty pricey
[3:44] <SpeedEvil> that's essentially that.
[3:47] * harish (harish@nat/redhat/x-facwruyzbjpqvsll) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:47] * PiBot sets mode +v harish
[3:47] <Gabrialdestruir> 300-400 bucks doesn't seem that bad, with the findmespot
[3:47] <Gabrialdestruir> How long is it expected to be out there?
[3:48] * thomashunter (~thomashun@c-68-40-206-131.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:48] * PiBot sets mode +v thomashunter
[3:49] <taipres> http://findmespot.com/images/coveragemap_nolegend.jpg
[3:51] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea, it'd work great assuming it doesn't vastly go off course.
[3:51] <taipres> with it floating out there, I wouldn't be suprised if it did
[3:51] <taipres> lol
[3:52] <Gabrialdestruir> Though it would be interesting if you could setup a project like that which could do a live Cam feed, but then i imagine it wouldn't be very portable.
[3:52] <Gabrialdestruir> Or well, not very compact anyways.
[3:53] <taipres> internet in the ocean is expensive
[3:53] <taipres> ideally this guy sends the pi out there it takes lot of pics and he eventually manages to retrieve it
[3:54] <taipres> before a guy with a boat sees his progress on google maps and goes out there and gets himself
[3:54] <taipres> :p
[3:54] * prpplague (~prpplague@ppp-70-242-127-81.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:54] * PiBot sets mode +v prpplague
[3:54] <Gabrialdestruir> Tie a very long very very durable string to it on it attached to a spool with a thousand miles of string >.>
[3:54] <taipres> lol
[3:54] <Gabrialdestruir> then just let the pi float away and some day you'll pull it back
[3:55] <taipres> they need to make interenet accesible everywhere
[3:55] <taipres> under water, in space, everywhere, for cheap :P
[3:55] <Gabrialdestruir> Huh now there's an interesting idea....
[3:55] <Gabrialdestruir> Transalantic ethernet cord
[3:55] <Gabrialdestruir> >.>
[3:55] * techsurvivor (~techsurvi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:55] * PiBot sets mode +v techsurvivor
[3:56] <taipres> haha
[3:56] * yehnan (yehnan@111-250-160-5.dynamic.hinet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:56] * PiBot sets mode +v yehnan
[3:57] <taipres> I wonder if those old engineers who worked on computers as big as a room back in the day ever imagined computing being what it is today
[3:57] <Gabrialdestruir> Some theory as the string, cept you'd always (assuming something didn't cut it) have ethernet access.
[3:57] <taipres> with even calculators being more powerful than what they were workin on
[3:57] <taipres> and naturally much smaller, raspberry pi being a good example
[3:57] <taipres> though not a calculator
[3:57] <taipres> could be :D
[3:57] <Gabrialdestruir> Honestly, they'd probably crap themselves if they got their hands on a raspberry pi
[3:57] <taipres> heh
[3:58] <Gabrialdestruir> I mean.... could you imagine dropping a few Raspberry Pis in the 1940s?
[3:58] <taipres> the string thing is how they provide internet from one country to another, long cables across the ocean P
[3:58] <taipres> they get cut all the time apparently and they're massive
[3:58] <taipres> so lil tiny one wouldn't last
[3:59] <taipres> lol Gabrialdestruir
[3:59] <SpeedEvil> Around 1950, you could sell a pi for several billion.
[3:59] * prpplague (~prpplague@ppp-70-242-127-81.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:59] <taipres> I don't know about that :P
[4:00] <taipres> they had microchips just slow ones
[4:00] <SpeedEvil> It would have _vastly_ sped up the manhatten project, for example.
[4:00] <taipres> I think
[4:00] <Gabrialdestruir> Go back into the past and completely rewrite computing history with a Pi
[4:00] <ReggieUK> no pacman :(
[4:01] <SpeedEvil> At that sort of time, you're talking of performances of well under a millionth of that of the pi. And storage of about a millionth too
[4:01] <taipres> short of disaster I predict computing to be hands off in 15 years
[4:01] * tech2077 (~tech2077@adsl-75-53-138-202.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[4:01] <taipres> as in smaller, and you simply think things
[4:02] <taipres> intel workin on a brain chip and that thing that reads thoughts been in dev for
[4:02] <SpeedEvil> Nothing magical is happening in only 15 years.
[4:02] <taipres> eegi or wahtever
[4:02] * satellit (~satellit@bc106151.bendcable.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:02] <SpeedEvil> 'reading thoughts' is at the moment at an _extremely_ basic stage.
[4:02] <ReggieUK> intel are also deving ponies with rainbowsa
[4:02] <taipres> Speed but they can do it
[4:03] <taipres> so within 15 years could be much further along
[4:03] <taipres> I have no interest in a brain chip myself
[4:03] * prpplague (~prpplague@ppp-70-242-122-117.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:03] * PiBot sets mode +v prpplague
[4:03] <SpeedEvil> taipres: Note that - for example - fusion has been 20 years away for some time now.
[4:03] <SpeedEvil> Since about 1960 or so.
[4:03] <taipres> yes but the thing about tech is it grows faster
[4:04] <taipres> not consitantly the moores law thing has been self fullfilled by companies
[4:04] <taipres> some are breaking away from that and uping things quicker
[4:04] <SpeedEvil> No, they're not.
[4:04] <ReggieUK> :D
[4:04] <taipres> absolutely are :)
[4:04] <SpeedEvil> The next couple of geometry shrinks on silicon are problematic.
[4:04] <SpeedEvil> And it's looking like it's flattening out.
[4:05] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:05] <taipres> take google, they're about to release google fiber it's 100 times faster than existing connections, at 1gbps for $70 and or 3mbs for free...
[4:05] <ziltro2> Maybe we need something better than silicon?
[4:05] <taipres> they're drastically uping the bar like they did with gmail
[4:05] <ziltro2> I rea about google fibre. One city. In america. That's all.
[4:05] <taipres> and the massive space, prior to gmail companies gave megabytes not a gig+
[4:05] <Gabrialdestruir> 3Mb/s free? o.o
[4:05] <ReggieUK> pony silicon
[4:05] <ziltro2> We've got a town with a fibre company here. That failed too.
[4:05] <SpeedEvil> taipres: That is not technology. That's marketing.
[4:05] <ReggieUK> with added rainbows
[4:05] <taipres> ziltro2 they have to start somewhere
[4:06] <ziltro2> Surely cities already have reasonable internet connections?
[4:06] <Gabrialdestruir> They're starting in kansas...
[4:06] <Gabrialdestruir> wtf are they starting in kansas?
[4:06] <taipres> ziltro2 reasonable, maybe, 1gbps awesome, doubtful
[4:06] * SpeedEvil looks at his 2.5M connection.
[4:06] <ReggieUK> a revolution
[4:06] <ReggieUK> in ruby slippers
[4:07] <Gabrialdestruir> 7Mb/s here and I'm paying like 30 bucks for it
[4:07] <Gabrialdestruir> if somehow Google did get Fiber out here for just 70 I'd jump on it
[4:07] <ziltro2> They should use my fibre ideas because they are great. :)
[4:07] <SpeedEvil> Paying about the same
[4:07] <taipres> you can also get 3mbs for FREE
[4:07] <ReggieUK> I'm getting around 18Mbit for $30
[4:07] <taipres> the best part of the 1gbps though is it's not just download apparently
[4:07] <taipres> it's upload too....................
[4:07] <Gabrialdestruir> That or I'd just supplement my current 7Mb/s with 3Mb/s free
[4:07] <taipres> that's a huge leap
[4:07] <ziltro2> Can I have multiple free 3mbps? :)
[4:08] <taipres> lol I guess you'll have to see
[4:08] <Gabrialdestruir> Except you know the problem...
[4:08] <ziltro2> Or would I have to move to america?
[4:08] <Gabrialdestruir> Fiber probably won't spread much further than fios
[4:08] <taipres> google having towns submit requests for them to come there
[4:08] <Gabrialdestruir> Which hit a few big cities and just stopped
[4:09] <ziltro2> Do they do villages? :)
[4:09] <taipres> heh doubt it
[4:09] <taipres> sadly
[4:09] <ziltro2> Actually I'd quite like to run a small internet access company, for a reasonably small area. No idea if it would work though.
[4:09] <taipres> if people payed it would
[4:10] <taipres> some have already done that
[4:10] <ziltro2> To provide fibre for internets and telephones, with local technical support.
[4:10] <ziltro2> There would of course be too much beaurocracy.
[4:10] * Syliss (~Syliss@ Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[4:10] <SpeedEvil> digging is hard
[4:10] <Gabrialdestruir> It'd be nice if Fiber actually spread to everywhere.
[4:11] <Gabrialdestruir> Free internet for everyone with Gb access
[4:11] <ziltro2> However a wired and wireless mesh network might be possible. ie. connect to each of your direct neighbours with fibre or ethernet, and have some wireless connections across roads and on corners
[4:11] <ziltro2> But it would need auto-routing and auto-adressing.
[4:12] <Gabrialdestruir> Super Wifi
[4:12] <ziltro2> Or something.
[4:12] <ziltro2> Across the road lasers?
[4:12] <Gabrialdestruir> Doesn't like the 700Mhz band used for TV also go like Miles?
[4:12] <ziltro2> Well obviously
[4:12] <ziltro2> Otherwise there'd be no point using it, you'd need TV transmitters eeverywhere
[4:13] <Gabrialdestruir> Setup some super wifi, have everyone upgrade to hardware that can use the 700Mhz band
[4:13] <Gabrialdestruir> and voila, free nationwide wifi
[4:13] <ziltro2> You might get problems with illegality...
[4:13] <ziltro2> People tend to notice when the TV stops working.
[4:14] <Gabrialdestruir> Except the 700mhz was the band they stopped using recently and everyone went to bidding war for, wasn't it?
[4:14] <SpeedEvil> my TV stopped working.
[4:14] <Gabrialdestruir> When everyone with Digital?
[4:14] <ziltro2> Really? I didn't think the channels had moved around yet
[4:14] <SpeedEvil> they shit off analogue.
[4:15] <Gabrialdestruir> In the US it all happened last year I think
[4:15] * Syliss (~Syliss@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:15] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[4:15] <SpeedEvil> ,mesh networks don't work.
[4:15] <ziltro2> Oh, I dunno there
[4:15] * thomashunter (~thomashun@c-68-40-206-131.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: thomashunter)
[4:15] <SpeedEvil> other than very locally.
[4:15] <SpeedEvil> nodes get swamped by transit traffic.
[4:15] <ziltro2> There would be a lot of hops.
[4:16] <ziltro2> You'd have to have a cable which went from one end of a road right to the other
[4:16] <ziltro2> Even then there'd be a lot to go to another town.
[4:16] <SpeedEvil> if there are on average 500 hops, then 500 other hosts are routing through you.
[4:17] <SpeedEvil> so your throughout is under .2% optimal
[4:17] <SpeedEvil> y.
[4:18] <ziltro2> So all you need is a million billion giggabits per second and it'd be fine.
[4:19] <SpeedEvil> then you run onto spectral and noise issues.
[4:19] <ziltro2> Ah, need to use a better quality light
[4:19] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:19] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[4:20] <Gabrialdestruir> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spaces_(radio)#United_States
[4:22] * paxcoder (4e868e7b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[4:22] * PiBot sets mode +v paxcoder
[4:22] <paxcoder> is there a way to boot up *without* the SD card?
[4:23] <SpeedEvil> no
[4:23] <SpeedEvil> Well - possibly with JTAG - but no
[4:23] <Gabrialdestruir> I couldn't see a bunch of routers coming out though on that band though, I imagine with miles of reception the channels would get crowded way too quick
[4:24] <SpeedEvil> Exactly.
[4:24] * Syliss (~Syliss@ Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[4:24] <paxcoder> SpeedEvil: why? that doesn't make sense. it should boot from the usb drive if possible.
[4:24] <SpeedEvil> paxcoder: Because the firmware can't do other than SD
[4:25] <paxcoder> SpeedEvil: i know. i'm questioning the firmware.
[4:25] <taipres> I heard about people building things that have limitless power
[4:25] <taipres> something about the magnetic force where once you get it going it keeps it going and power it uses for that
[4:25] <SpeedEvil> Gabrialdestruir: The problem is that if you can recieve a station 1 mile away - you are also interfered with by all stations within 1 mile.
[4:25] <taipres> is less than power it produces...so naturally is unlimited energy
[4:25] <taipres> cleam
[4:26] <SpeedEvil> And then the range shrinks due t the interference.
[4:26] <taipres> forget name but haven't found any implementation except on youtube
[4:26] * null____ (~null@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:26] <paxcoder> is anyone trying to hack the firmware yet?
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> It's in RM
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> ROM
[4:27] <paxcoder> or is there a project to replace it perhaps?
[4:27] <paxcoder> EPROM is also ROM :-)
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> Or it may be in flash, but there is no way to read or write it publically.
[4:27] <paxcoder> "publically?"
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> So, it can't even be accessed.
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> I mean there may be a private way to reflash it, but I don't know it.
[4:28] <paxcoder> "private?"
[4:28] <SpeedEvil> Secret
[4:28] <SpeedEvil> Known only to broadcom internally.
[4:28] <paxcoder> oh
[4:28] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea, that's what I was thinking. I imagine it'd be better to reserve white space wifi to a nation wide network
[4:28] <Gabrialdestruir> or something
[4:29] <paxcoder> well that's krap
[4:29] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-90-126.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[4:29] * techsurvivor (~techsurvi@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:30] * techsurvivor (~don@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:30] * PiBot sets mode +v techsurvivor
[4:30] <paxcoder> now i'll have to buy an SD card as well. bull.
[4:31] <paxcoder> argh
[4:32] <Gabrialdestruir> You can get like an 8GB card these days for 10 bucks
[4:32] <Gabrialdestruir> not that big a deal
[4:33] <paxcoder> that's the 3rd of the supposed price of the pi
[4:35] <Gabrialdestruir> and almost every case you find is gonna cost you 3/4ths the price of the Pi
[4:35] <Gabrialdestruir> your point?
[4:36] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:36] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: my point is i'm not going to buy a case.
[4:38] <ebswift> hey there, i tried resolving this in the raspbian channel yesterday to no avail... i'm using a WNDA3200 wireless adapter with network-manager. in command prompt the wireless stick stays awake. in x it goes to sleep and won't wake up, or goes into some invalid state
[4:38] <Gabrialdestruir> Expecting accessories that are a comparable price to the Pi is a little silly
[4:38] <paxcoder> SpeedEvil: what's this: https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-update
[4:39] <Gabrialdestruir> It updates the firmware of your Pi
[4:39] <Gabrialdestruir> the firmware that has to be on your sdcard
[4:39] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: silly is not booting from the USB. I expected not having to use any accessories (save cables which I have).
[4:40] <neofutur> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1986127174/designing-an-affordable-and-beautiful-raspberry-pi
[4:40] <neofutur> for the future cheap pi case
[4:40] <Gabrialdestruir> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161398
[4:40] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: if it would enable me to boot from a usb stick, i'd borrow an SD card to flash
[4:40] <neofutur> also i gathered links on all the cases i found on http://raspberry.pi.gw.gd/f23-Case.html
[4:41] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[4:41] <neofutur> if you find some i havent added yet, tell me ;)
[4:42] <Gabrialdestruir> They didn't meet their kickstarter funds
[4:42] * neofutur adding the interesting kickstarter link
[4:42] <paxcoder> the case was ugly and expensive
[4:42] <paxcoder> (my guess, no offense)
[4:43] <neofutur> yup I think most of use should support this kickstarter project
[4:43] <neofutur> seems an important point for the success of rpi to have a cheap and good case
[4:43] <Gabrialdestruir> You can't support it, because it reached it's deadline, without meeting the goal
[4:44] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: thx for the link.
[4:44] <neofutur> argh yes, true ;(
[4:44] <neofutur> but isnt 15k$ too much ?
[4:44] <neofutur> couldnt this be made with a 5000 $ goal ?
[4:45] <Gabrialdestruir> Probably could of yea
[4:45] <Gabrialdestruir> For 15,000 you could of probably done a whole self powered case, with fan, internal powered USB hub, etc.
[4:47] <Gabrialdestruir> I think legos are still the cheapest route so far, save one of those Punnet cases or the use the box it came in as a case cases
[4:49] <Gabrialdestruir> Most people have Legos stored away somewhere anyways, if they don't it's only like 15-16 bucks + shipping, as opposed to most cases 20+
[4:49] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: heh.
[4:50] <Gabrialdestruir> The Pibow isn't that bad in terms of cost either it hits around the 15 dollar mark, and supposedly it's going to have all sorts of mods
[4:50] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-90-126.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[4:51] <Gabrialdestruir> Er well the Pibow preorder isn't that bad, looks like the regular price will be around 20
[4:54] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:54] * PiBot sets mode +v Davespice
[4:55] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: SpeedEvil: So does rpi-update update the firmware that's responsible for the choice of the boot device?
[4:56] <Gabrialdestruir> No, it updates the firmware files on your sdcard
[4:57] <Gabrialdestruir> The Pi looks for files on the sdcard to boot, that's something that can't be changed.
[4:57] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: it must!
[4:57] <paxcoder> and it certainly can.
[4:58] <paxcoder> i wonder who wrote it.
[4:58] <Gabrialdestruir> Broadcom
[4:59] <paxcoder> Why would they write firmware that boots solely from the SD card?
[4:59] <Gabrialdestruir> Because the Pi is designed to boot from the SD
[5:00] <paxcoder> exactly, the firmware is custom made to boot from the SD card. they should tell them to add the USB option (at least)
[5:00] <taipres> how do you guys know all this, you take engineering in school
[5:00] <taipres> or are advanced googlers? :D
[5:01] <paxcoder> taipres: mostly Linux+GNU users. ;-)
[5:02] * Jef91 (~jeff@bodhilinux/team/Jef91) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:02] * PiBot sets mode +v Jef91
[5:03] <Gabrialdestruir> It's not much different from from an android device.
[5:03] <Jef91> Anyone around with a raspberry pi and fast internet feel like downloading an OS image and letting me know if it works?
[5:03] <Gabrialdestruir> It's hardwired basically to boot from sdcard.
[5:03] <taipres> Jef91 it's doubtful i'm guessing
[5:04] <taipres> think only a few distros work atm
[5:04] <yehnan> Jef91: what image?
[5:04] <Jef91> Just published a new image here -> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bodhilinux/files/ARM/RaspBerryPi/
[5:04] <taipres> ahh I stand corrected, cool
[5:04] <Jef91> Want someone else to test it before I post an announcement
[5:04] <yehnan> Jef91: I'm downloading
[5:04] <Jef91> Last image had networking issues I believe are now resolved... Want to be sure of that before I blog about it
[5:04] <Jef91> thanks yehnan !
[5:06] * paxcoder (4e868e7b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:07] <yehnan> Jef91: sourceforge? Strangely ...now the download speed is around 100KB/s....kind of slow...:(
[5:07] <Jef91> Ick.
[5:07] <Jef91> Yea - once I know it works I will get a torrent of it online
[5:07] <Jef91> Its fine, I've got time if you do
[5:08] <yehnan> Jef91: I will try...:)
[5:09] <Gabrialdestruir> Huh... interesting idea.
[5:10] <Gabrialdestruir> Network Based Operating Systems.... You load up the absolute minimalistic settings with some sort of remote viewer or something. Then run whatever os completely in a VM.
[5:14] <yehnan> Jef91: how much things are there in the image? its compressed size is double of that of 2012-07-15-wheezy-raspbian.zip.
[5:15] <Jef91> Just the OS mostly yehnan
[5:15] <Jef91> I think around 1.2GB worth of data is filled by default
[5:15] <Jef91> in the 2GB image
[5:16] * ReggieUK (~ReggieUK@5aca5630.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
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[5:18] * PiBot sets mode +v kn1000
[5:18] <kn1000> Anyone know if I can install xmbc on my pi running raspbian rather than openelec
[5:18] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea, there's guides for it on the forums.
[5:19] <kn1000> Got a link?
[5:19] <kn1000> nevermind, just found them, most obvious url ever (raspbian.org/RaspbianXMBC)
[5:19] <kn1000> thanks
[5:20] * aykut (~aykut@unaffiliated/aykut) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:20] <Gabrialdestruir> I wonder if there's a way to setup a remote OS to use the gpu of the Pi...
[5:20] <GriffenJBS> Anyone run the pi on higher voltage supply?
[5:21] <GriffenJBS> Gabrialdestruir: use the pi as a display unit? you can do that with X
[5:22] <taipres> ib4 ipi tv remote
[5:22] <taipres> :D
[5:23] <taipres> inb4 heh
[5:23] <Lacer> I don't think giving the Pi more voltage would do anything other then heat up the regulators. More current sourcing on the other hand....
[5:23] <Gabrialdestruir> I think it's best to keep it at like 5 otherwise there would be more heat I think
[5:24] <taipres> anyone using xfce on their pi?
[5:24] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:26] <Gabrialdestruir> Is there a Pi distro that runs just absolute basic X/Network/Input?
[5:27] <Gorroth> can't you do that with any distro?
[5:27] <Gorroth> i imagined raspbian as a distro that installs with no X, and you can just set it up yourself
[5:28] <Gorroth> btw, i don't have my Pi yet
[5:28] <crenn> Woo! SPI Communication is working how I want :D
[5:28] <techsurvivor> maybe the arch linux is minimal, i haven't tried it yet
[5:28] <Gorroth> nice
[5:28] * kn1000 (~pi@b0ff4f00.bb.sky.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:28] <techsurvivor> anyone used it ?
[5:28] <techsurvivor> (the archlinux image)
[5:29] <Gabrialdestruir> Well with your basic distro I think there'd still be a lot of unneeded stuff for just a display device.
[5:29] <techsurvivor> that's why I mentioned arch, it can be very minimal, just depends on how they set up the image
[5:29] <techsurvivor> i know the debian has a ton of stuff on it
[5:30] <Gorroth> oh, i don't think debian has much to it
[5:30] * aykut (~aykut@unaffiliated/aykut) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:30] * PiBot sets mode +v aykut
[5:30] <Gorroth> and besides, not like we don't have enough space on the SD card anyway
[5:30] <techsurvivor> yeah but this guy wants a minimal install :)
[5:30] <techsurvivor> i was just curious
[5:31] * aykut (~aykut@unaffiliated/aykut) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:31] <techsurvivor> it's 450 megs, it's probably 2-3x that uncompressed
[5:31] <techsurvivor> that's a lot of stuff :)
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[5:31] * PiBot sets mode +v aykut
[5:31] <Gorroth> huh?
[5:31] <Gorroth> an install image?
[5:31] <techsurvivor> yes
[5:32] <Gorroth> i haven't used the Pi yet, but don't you just run an installer?
[5:32] <techsurvivor> assuming they zeroed out the empty space
[5:32] <Gorroth> in that case, you'd just select the packages you need/want
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[5:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Siph0n
[5:32] <techsurvivor> no, you use an sdcard image
[5:32] <Gorroth> oh, well, you could always rebuild an image after you set up something how you like
[5:32] <techsurvivor> someone may have built a net installer though, but I haven't seen it
[5:33] <Gorroth> i just want my dang Pi to come
[5:33] <techsurvivor> that's why i was pointing out arch :) that's kind of how it usually works
[5:33] <techsurvivor> i own 3 now, but 2 are still in the box, and I have a dead one
[5:33] <Gorroth> eh, i just like using debian
[5:33] <Gorroth> i bought my Pi from Allied Elec just after they said they ramped up production to 4K/day
[5:33] <Gabrialdestruir> Raspbmc uses a network installer
[5:34] <taipres> "2 are still in the box"
[5:34] <Gorroth> and i still haven't seen any movement on it getting out to me here in the States
[5:34] <Gorroth> i'm going to call AlliedElec tomorrow to bitch about it
[5:34] <taipres> did I read that correctly?
[5:34] <techsurvivor> yes
[5:34] <Gabrialdestruir> Bah
[5:34] <Gabrialdestruir> They ramped up to 4,000 but they're still trying to catch up
[5:34] <techsurvivor> i have been having to work a lot so I haven't had time to mess with them much :)
[5:35] <Gabrialdestruir> I think there's like another 8-12 weeks
[5:35] <Gorroth> catch up to what? i don't think they've sold hundreds of thousands yet
[5:35] <techsurvivor> i got mine inside of a week from neward
[5:35] <techsurvivor> newark
[5:35] <techsurvivor> (element 14)
[5:35] <Gorroth> techsurvivor: newark, nj?
[5:35] <techsurvivor> Newark Electronics
[5:35] <Gorroth> i'm just north of NYC and think it needs to come fast then
[5:35] <Gorroth> oh
[5:36] <Gabrialdestruir> They've sold at least 100,000
[5:36] <techsurvivor> Gabrialdestruir: you have a source for that?
[5:36] <Gabrialdestruir> 100,000 was the number of people originally interested.
[5:36] <techsurvivor> Gorroth: where did you order from ?
[5:37] <Gorroth> Allied Electronics; it was the only USA disributor they listed on their site
[5:37] <Gabrialdestruir> With them having recently opened up orders to multiple orders, I'm sure they've sold that many at least.
[5:37] <Gorroth> distributor*
[5:37] <techsurvivor> i was a "multiple order" after I burned up my original one
[5:37] <techsurvivor> Gorroth: you can buy them at element 14, which is either owned or associated with newark
[5:38] <techsurvivor> check there
[5:38] <techsurvivor> it shoudl have the lead time listed
[5:38] <techsurvivor> ack lead time is back up to 33 days :(
[5:39] <techsurvivor> they must have sold all the ones they had
[5:39] <Gabrialdestruir> The official Raspberry Pi Twitter account reported that Premier Farnell sold out within a few minutes of the initial launch, while RS Components took over 100,000 pre orders on day one.
[5:39] <Gabrialdestruir> according to wiki
[5:39] <Gorroth> i'm just going to wait; Allied Elec said it'd be late sept. when i get it
[5:39] <taipres> that's so awesome
[5:39] <techsurvivor> i guess i just got lucky
[5:39] <Gorroth> i'm just annoyed
[5:39] <taipres> especially since raspberrypi are a non-profit
[5:39] <Gorroth> bc i thought the production would catch up right away since everyone could only order single units previously
[5:40] <techsurvivor> yeah, it's good to hear they're doing well
[5:40] <taipres> one of you high rollers should considering buying a couple and handing them out to kids
[5:40] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:40] * PiBot sets mode +v bnmorgan
[5:40] <taipres> or idk, something like, it'd be a cool gift I think
[5:41] * harish (harish@nat/redhat/x-facwruyzbjpqvsll) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:42] * Mr_Sheesh_AFK is now known as Mr_Sheesh
[5:42] <Gorroth> how about they get a job
[5:42] <Gorroth> and buy it themselves
[5:42] <Gorroth> they can mow lawns and stuff or get a newpaper route
[5:43] <Gorroth> :)
[5:43] <taipres> I seen a video where people camped overnight at a apple store to get a copy of the new ipod/iphone whatever it was in line, and a guy out there bought one, then he smashed it infront of people waiting in line :\
[5:43] <Gorroth> yeah, well, that's fine
[5:43] <taipres> obviously that upset a lot of people, glad no ones doing that with raspberrypi
[5:43] <Gorroth> he paid for it
[5:44] * techsurvivor (~don@ Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
[5:45] <taipres> everyone has their opinions :0
[5:45] <taipres> :)
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[6:09] <GriffenJBS> Lacer: sorry was afk, I'm not wanting to give it more, but lots of USB chargers I find are out of spec, beyond 5.25V many seem to be at 5.65V I don't want to burn up a pi
[6:12] * aykut (~aykut@unaffiliated/aykut) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[6:15] <Lacer> GriffenJBS: Ah. Well looking at the spec sheet on the stock voltage regulator ( http://pdf.dzsc.com/SE8/SE8117.pdf ) you can give it a max of 9 volts. Though with any higher voltage, the energy has to go somewhere, so expect that part to heat up.
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[6:31] <kn1000> I just got xbmc set up on my pi
[6:32] <kn1000> I might just be an extreme level n00b but I can't for the life of me figure out how to add content to the library
[6:32] <kn1000> as in I can get to it via the file browser but I cannot figure out how to add it to a library so it's prettified
[6:32] <kn1000> is that feature available on the pi-port
[6:32] <Gabrialdestruir> You scan the movie/tv/music directy for content
[6:32] <Gabrialdestruir> then it does it automatically
[6:33] <kn1000> Gabrialdestruir: I have figured out how to add 'sources' and added a folder on my usb hard disk to it but it doesn't show the media type selection window
[6:33] * mpthompson (~IceChat77@c-50-131-39-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: It's a dud! It's a dud! It's a du...)
[6:33] <Gabrialdestruir> right click on the source and there should be a "scan for content"
[6:34] <kn1000> oh really? I shall plug in a mouse!
[6:34] <Gabrialdestruir> if you set a content type it'll search the databases for that content
[6:34] <kn1000> *curses royal mail for taking nearly 3 weeks to deliver the damn powered hub
[6:34] <Gabrialdestruir> except your files have to be name Show.s00e00.ext
[6:34] <Gabrialdestruir> I think
[6:35] * kn1000 (~pi@b0ff4f00.bb.sky.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[6:39] <Gabrialdestruir> Hmm.... odd, I have space issues on my openelec system
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[6:42] * PiBot sets mode +v harish
[6:46] <Gabrialdestruir> Just a note of obviousness.... if you're running openelec on a 2GB card, and you suddenly can't download videos from where ever onto it
[6:46] * harish (harish@nat/redhat/x-cbylzbywbytergku) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:46] <Gabrialdestruir> you might of downloaded too much
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[7:32] <cjbaird> imho, there being an 'official' Android porting effort hints at a RaspberryPi_II (RPi Master? :) already in the planning with 512/1024MB of RAM...
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[7:35] <Lacer> Could be. Have they even released the A (cheaper) model yet?
[7:38] * Quietlyawesome94 (~chatzilla@adsl-074-184-089-183.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347])
[7:38] <cjbaird> Hopefully they won't do an OLPC and decide it's okay to change their minds and make the 'real education' model more expensive than the Beta-test hardware..
[7:39] <Lacer> We can only hope. :)
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[7:56] <crenn> Whee! This code is working semi reliable
[7:57] <deebo> "there is only a 50% chance this cars gas tank will explode while the engine is running"
[7:58] <techsurvivor> thank his noodliness that code isn't a car engine or we'd all be dead
[7:59] <crenn> deebo: It can crash randomly
[7:59] <DexterLB> when the hdmi is off, and I turn it on with "tvservice -p", it does turn on but with a blank screen. How can I get the tty to display?
[7:59] <deebo> crenn: which is not a great feature in cars or software
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[8:08] <crenn> deebo: I know
[8:08] <crenn> I'll work on the issue soon
[8:09] <crenn> It's a timing issue between Chip Select going high and the fact interrupts aren't used to handle the SPI port for the microcontroller
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[8:44] <gordonDrogon> morning...
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[8:45] <davistv> Hi Everyone.
[8:46] <davistv> Does anyone have any experience using the small LCD port on the pi? I'd love to hook up a little color 320x240 screen to that port, looking for info on how to talk to it and what kind of screens are available.
[8:47] <gordonDrogon> none is the simple answer.
[8:50] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:51] <Jck_true> Alright - So I attempted getting some mp3 output going using mpg123 - Worked perfectly with sound over HDMI - Then i wanted to try the analog out on the board and used the command "sudo amixer cset numid=3 <n>" from the wiki - and now mpg123 won't play anything - even when i set amixer back to the default
[8:55] <yehnan> Jef91: I successfully booted bodhi-pi-20120731.img.tar.gz, what do you want to test? are you there?
[8:56] <Jck_true> Nevermind - I screwed up somewhere - works now atleast
[8:57] <Jck_true> On a second note - The audiooutput on the RPi is NOT impressive :P
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[9:06] <booyaa> morning
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[9:31] * PiBot sets mode +v reider59
[9:31] * lempiainen (~lempiaine@a88-115-118-200.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:34] * harish (harish@nat/redhat/x-ldpasqupjxedxtgo) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[9:35] <booyaa> lo
[9:35] * booyaa complete forgot about ssh agent forwarding
[9:35] * Weaselweb (~quassel@2001:6f8:9e4:123:21a:92ff:fe5a:1409) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Weaselweb
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[9:38] * PiBot sets mode +v timewa1ker
[9:40] <crenn> Whee!
[9:40] <crenn> I have a microcontroller hooked upto the Raspberry Pi and a LCD Display hooked upto the microcontroller
[9:40] <crenn> The RPi sends a message to the microcontroller and then the microcontroller prints the message onto the LCD
[9:40] <Lacer> Nice!
[9:41] <crenn> Yeah
[9:41] <crenn> Now just need to make a tutorial on how I did it and then it will be time for another project
[9:41] * crackm (~chatzilla@brln-4d0c91f2.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:41] * PiBot sets mode +v crackm
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[9:42] <crenn> Maybe giving the microcontroller H-Bridges, motors and some ultrasonic sensors then make the RPi and microcontroller talk 2 way!
[9:42] <booyaa> crenn: awesomes
[9:42] * Meatballs|Away is now known as Meatballs
[9:43] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-41-83.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has left #raspberrypi
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[9:48] * ArtemD (~artemd@dsl-olubrasgw2-fefbdf00-243.dhcp.inet.fi) has left #raspberrypi
[9:49] <Jck_true> This one is starting to anoy me https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/9 - Can't seem to find any fixes that makes the RPI atleast half stable under heavy network load :( :(
[9:53] * crackm (~chatzilla@brln-4d0c91f2.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713224749])
[9:56] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[9:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Cru
[9:58] * UKB|Sleep is now known as unknownbliss
[10:01] * davistv (~davistv@cpe-24-29-14-49.cinci.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: History isn't what it used to be.)
[10:08] * lempiainen (~lempiaine@a88-115-118-200.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:08] * PiBot sets mode +v lempiainen
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[10:14] * Lacer (~Lacer@h110.222.130.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) Quit (Quit: All generalizations are bad. ~R.H. Grenier)
[10:14] * Lacer (~Lacer@h110.222.130.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:14] * PiBot sets mode +v Lacer
[10:17] * cerberos (~cerberos@host81-131-182-219.range81-131.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:17] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[10:26] <urs> "XBMC built successfully" finally!
[10:26] <crenn> http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81/crenn/Projects/RaspPi/120801/2012-08-01_17-46-57_532.jpg :D
[10:26] * tommygu (~tommygu@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:26] * PiBot sets mode +v tommygu
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[10:28] <gordonDrogon> crenn, that's a pi talking usb to a something talking to a LCD?
[10:29] <crenn> gordonDrogon: Nope, Pi talking via SPI to a Leaflabs Maple Mini which has an LCD connected to it
[10:29] <gordonDrogon> what's the something?
[10:29] <gordonDrogon> ah, you just answred :)
[10:29] <reider59> Maple Mini Board
[10:29] <gordonDrogon> is it an atmega based board, or pic?
[10:29] <gordonDrogon> Ooh: 32-bit ARM Cortex M3 microprocessor
[10:30] <gordonDrogon> bit overkill to dive an LCD :)
[10:30] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:30] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[10:30] <crenn> gordonDrogon: I don't have any ATMegas that can be powered by 3.3V
[10:30] * JWB|away (~pi@tmo-102-110.customers.d1-online.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[10:31] <gordonDrogon> ok
[10:31] <gordonDrogon> but the usb is 5v though... ?
[10:32] <crenn> Also, plan to do other things with the Maple, such as some robotics and sensor processing without Pi interaction, but the RPi can talk to it if remote control is needed
[10:32] <crenn> gordonDrogon: Yep, VRegs take it down to 3.3V
[10:33] <crenn> You can't see the underside of the Maple which has all of that
[10:35] <gordonDrogon> crenn, sounds good - while the Pi is good, it's not good enough for 'hard' real-time control IMO, despite the best efforts of many to make it so!
[10:36] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[10:36] <gordonDrogon> I'm aiming to have to PiTrack going in a few weeks time, but I've just realised I've a week out of with the YRS.
[10:36] <gordonDrogon> and I'm doing some private tuition for the rest of this week too...
[10:37] <crenn> YRS?
[10:37] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:37] * PiBot sets mode +v phantoxe
[10:38] <booyaa> pitrack?
[10:38] <booyaa> private tuition like 1-2-1 for pi?
[10:39] <gordonDrogon> https://projects.drogon.net/pitrak/
[10:39] <gordonDrogon> yes, 121 for Pi, actually C programming and GPIO interfacing, but we're looking at Pi's and Arduinos.
[10:40] <booyaa> that is really excellent man
[10:40] <Draylor> lol
[10:40] <booyaa> you are totally living my dream lifestyle breadmaking and hacking pis for a living
[10:40] <gordonDrogon> it doesn't pay... yet...
[10:40] * booyaa is about 2+ years away from making this happen
[10:40] <gordonDrogon> don't give up the day-job ;-)
[10:41] <gordonDrogon> actually, you'll like this -
[10:41] <booyaa> yeah, totally ;)
[10:41] <Draylor> how many 80s toys can be "improved" by adding a pi ... that'll keep ya busy for a few years
[10:41] <gordonDrogon> (give me a moment to upload something from my phone)
[10:41] <booyaa> Draylor: :)
[10:41] <buZz> Draylor: just finding hackable 80s toys can keep you occupied ;)
[10:41] <booyaa> simon - rigged up to shock people who get the sequence wrong?
[10:42] <Draylor> the name big trak meant nothing to me, until the pics jogged the memory
[10:42] <booyaa> a fully working mouse trap?
[10:42] <gordonDrogon> I have the modern version of the mouse trap game - not as impressive as the original..
[10:42] <gordonDrogon> IMO
[10:45] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/shiptonmill.jpg
[10:45] <gordonDrogon> I was there on Friday!
[10:45] <Mazon> why does rs-online say they will dispatch in 17 weeks, while farnell is 3 weeks ?
[10:45] <gordonDrogon> got a quick private tour of the mill..
[10:46] <Mazon> and does anyone know why I can't add accessories when I buy through farnell as a private person ?
[10:46] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:47] <gordonDrogon> Mazon, you can't? Just invent a company - be a sole trader, and trade in your name...
[10:47] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:47] * PiBot sets mode +v mentar
[10:47] <gordonDrogon> although I've only ever ordered my Pi from Farnell - RS don't have issues with that these days.
[10:48] <Mazon> well, I have a company number to use - but I'd like to order privately
[10:49] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:49] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[10:50] <gordonDrogon> yea. weird.
[10:50] <gordonDrogon> booyaa, I got some of this: http://www.shipton-mill.com/flour-direct/speciality-and-rare-flours/shop-36/swiss-dark-flour-409?
[10:50] <gordonDrogon> it's made a really good loaf of sourdough so-far!
[10:50] <stain> perhaps something for my breadmaker..
[10:51] <buZz> stain: cant you put raspberries in bread? :D
[10:52] <gordonDrogon> would personally try myself... they'd not withstand kneading and turn into pulp, I suspect...
[10:52] * JeffWBrooktree (~pi@tmo-102-110.customers.d1-online.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:52] * PiBot sets mode +v JeffWBrooktree
[10:53] * JeffWBrooktree (~pi@tmo-102-110.customers.d1-online.com) has left #raspberrypi
[10:53] <stain> my maker has a slot for seeds which are dropped in at the last minute, so might work for raspberries as well!
[10:53] <gordonDrogon> I got some of their soft cake and pasrty flour too, so will be making some pastry tonight or tomorow (quich for lunch ;-)
[10:53] * Lacer (~Lacer@h110.222.130.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) Quit (Quit: All generalizations are bad. ~R.H. Grenier)
[10:53] <gordonDrogon> stain, give it a go, but I suspect you'll end up with a pink loaf ;-)
[10:56] <stain> I'm ordering some of that flour.. have you got any vouchers to skip the postage?
[10:57] * ebswift (~ebswift@ppp118-208-106-71.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:57] * PiBot sets mode +v ebswift
[10:57] <stain> oh, it needs to be ??30 for free delivery!
[10:58] * unknownbliss is now known as UKB|Away
[10:58] <stain> oh fuck, where would I get a box of flour delivered.. I did not think about that. Damn. Well well.
[10:58] * ^robertj (~Rob@97-81-108-117.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:59] * Patteh (~BOB@cpc9-hari15-2-0-cust297.20-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Patteh
[11:01] <gordonDrogon> Hm. never noticed the delivery charges - I was at the mill itself...
[11:01] <buZz> producing mills are sooo sexay
[11:01] <gordonDrogon> Im going back next month to do one of their proper tours too -they do them on saturdays I think. (my wife has the social calendar ;-)
[11:03] <gordonDrogon> Shipton have 2 mills - the tiny one I was at - that's the original, but they have a bigger one about 30 miles away. But that little one is the one that does the stoneground stuff. They have 2 pairs of stones.
[11:03] <gordonDrogon> they also roller-mill to - it's the only way to get bulk flour these days, sadly.
[11:04] <buZz> are they wind mills?
[11:04] <gordonDrogon> wow - all these old home computers are now turning (or have turned!) 30... the latest appears to be: http://www.reghardware.com/2012/08/01/the_dragon_32_is_30_years_old/
[11:04] <buZz> or water?
[11:04] <gordonDrogon> electric...
[11:04] <gordonDrogon> they have a working water wheel which they're in the process of refurbishing.
[11:05] <gordonDrogon> I suggested making it generate electricity to power the motors they already have in-place..
[11:05] <buZz> ELECTRIC
[11:05] <buZz> wtf
[11:06] <buZz> imho thats no mill
[11:06] <buZz> thats like a big coffee grinder
[11:07] <gordonDrogon> heh
[11:07] <gordonDrogon> it's still 2 whacking gert big stones grinding the wheat...
[11:07] <buZz> hehe well
[11:08] <buZz> i am dutch, if not a windmill its hardly a mill for me at all ;)
[11:10] * reider59 (~reider59@cpc4-warr5-0-0-cust657.1-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Later)
[11:11] <gordonDrogon> http://www.golfblogger.co.uk/data/post_pics/Funnies/Windy-Miller-Hard-at-Work.jpg
[11:13] <buZz> he looks dutch, and made of clay ;)
[11:14] * bbotf (~bbotf@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:14] <buZz> http://www.molendevlijt.nl/images/Molenmarkt%2006%20005.jpg
[11:14] <buZz> this one is in my hometown and still producing
[11:16] <gordonDrogon> excellent!
[11:16] <gordonDrogon> and I thought they were just to pump water out of the flatlands ...
[11:17] <buZz> most were, but we just had to do that once ;)
[11:19] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:19] * PiBot sets mode +v kkimlabs
[11:23] <gordonDrogon> yea, then stick fingers in dykes ;-)
[11:31] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[11:34] <gordonDrogon> waiting on a new small TV to arrive for my Pi's.
[11:34] <gordonDrogon> Decided to upgrade from the 30 year old monitor I have..... :)
[11:34] <buZz> who doesnt like dykes ;)
[11:34] <buZz> we can always convert them !
[11:35] * ksx4system (~ksx4syste@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[11:43] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[11:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Inoperable
[11:43] <Draylor> hah
[11:43] <Draylor> was it you that had the pic of the ancient commodore monitor from the c64 era gordonDrogon ?
[11:45] <gordonDrogon> Draylor, this one? http://unicorn.drogon.net/piduino.jpg
[11:45] <gordonDrogon> that's the only old monitor I have.
[11:45] <gordonDrogon> it's pretty generic, not commodore.
[11:46] <Draylor> nah, not you then
[11:46] <Draylor> someone here had a pi connected to one, was fun to see the old/new contrast ;)
[11:46] <gordonDrogon> have an apple II too: http://unicorn.drogon.net/lode.jpg
[11:47] <gordonDrogon> that's a pretty old monitor, but it won't work on the Pi for some weird reason. (won't work on my BBC micro either)
[11:47] <Draylor> nasty evil apple custom connectors arent a new thing :p
[11:47] <gordonDrogon> oh it's standard video connectors.
[11:47] * the_real_crimper (~crimper@cpe-98-154-91-166.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:48] <gordonDrogon> they hadn't started custom connectors quite yet back then...
[11:48] <gordonDrogon> it just doesn't work...
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[11:49] * PiBot sets mode +v ksx4system
[11:49] <Gabrialdestruir> Curious.... is it possible to redirect the light for the little Pi LEDs to somewhere else? Like using some sort of optical tubing or something?
[11:50] * mongrol (~mongrol@c211-31-23-84.rochd5.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:50] * PiBot sets mode +v mongrol
[11:50] <mongrol> yay! I've got a pi!
[11:50] <mongrol> ordered from farnell last friday, arrived in Australia today. 5 days!
[11:51] <Gabrialdestruir> Oh hey... your work was mentioned on the Ben Heck show, gordonDrogon
[11:51] <gordonDrogon> Gabrialdestruir, there are various "light guides" avalable... but I don't know how to make one ...
[11:51] <gordonDrogon> Gabrialdestruir, is this the "pi in a keyboard case" one, or something new?
[11:51] <Gabrialdestruir> That one.
[11:52] <Gabrialdestruir> I was thinking I wanted to make the same case, or something similar, but without the whole trashing a raspberry Pi in the process. lol
[11:52] <gordonDrogon> Gabrialdestruir, it's a fantastic project - when I saw it I immediately spent some hours looking into making my own laser cutter based on an old flatbed plotter I have...
[11:52] <Gabrialdestruir> So I'm looking over what i'd need.
[11:52] <gordonDrogon> bad idea. don't try it it. gave up.
[11:52] <gordonDrogon> will buy one when I can afford/justify one...
[11:53] <gordonDrogon> I've seen custom light buides made, but some fibre optic cable...?
[11:53] <gordonDrogon> *guides
[11:54] <Gabrialdestruir> I like the idea, but I didn't like the implementation.
[11:55] <Gabrialdestruir> Like I think I'd just do a GPIO output instead of a cartridge.
[11:56] <Gabrialdestruir> and I'd go with all extenders instead of doing a lot of soldering to the bord.
[11:56] <gordonDrogon> I was wondering if that's something that Farnel in the US is going to try to promote to schools, etc.
[11:56] <gordonDrogon> it looks like a good range of board potentials.
[11:58] <Gabrialdestruir> The Cartridge slot you mean/
[11:58] <Gabrialdestruir> ?*
[11:58] <gordonDrogon> yes and the boards he made to plug-in.
[11:58] <gordonDrogon> it's just the GPIO connector extended into a slot thing.
[11:59] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea I know, but having to buy additional boards or create your own seems like it'd be a bigger hassle than just a GPIO output and a breadboard.
[12:00] <Gabrialdestruir> On the other hand....in schools where they could buy maybe 5 or 10 of each and let people screw around with it.
[12:01] <Gabrialdestruir> That'd be a lot easier than a bunch of breadboards and wires and such.
[12:04] * kvarley (~kevin@unaffiliated/kvarley) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:04] * PiBot sets mode +v kvarley
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[12:04] * PiBot sets mode +v datagutt
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[12:05] * PiBot sets mode +v shellac
[12:06] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:07] * bietiekay (~bietiekay@server2.schrankmonster.de) Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[12:08] * PiBot sets mode +v mythos
[12:08] * shellac (~pldms@cpc6-aztw25-2-0-cust83.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[12:08] * shellac (~pldms@cpc6-aztw25-2-0-cust83.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:08] * PiBot sets mode +v shellac
[12:11] <gordonDrogon> yes, more plug & play...
[12:12] <gordonDrogon> or plug and wobble :)
[12:19] <reider59> nice one Mongrol, welcome to the ROC.....RPi Owners Club
[12:20] * thrawed (~t@unaffiliated/thrawed) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:20] * PiBot sets mode +v thrawed
[12:20] <reider59> I looked at my original link to register for a Pi yesterday at Farnell, just to see if I could still order the T shirt I forgot to add. to my shock, it said 1 Raspberry Pi available for next day delivery.
[12:21] <buZz> omg next day!
[12:21] <buZz> did you order it?
[12:21] <reider59> No, was tempted but saving up for a few things, I only wanted a shirt
[12:23] <buZz> hmhm
[12:23] <buZz> shirts are being sold on ebay aswell btw
[12:23] * mongrol now creeps around ebay looking for all the other bits n bobs he needs
[12:24] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Cru
[12:24] <Gabrialdestruir> Anyways I was thinking with a project like this, and the Pi hidden away, I would think it'd look better with the LEDs somehow displaying out the top.
[12:24] <reider59> just looked again today and it says 24 days lead time, yesterday was marked as 1 only anyway. I may have the shirt/s sorted in the next day or two
[12:25] <Gabrialdestruir> To sort of give an idea if it's running it's okay etc without having to lift it up
[12:25] <mongrol> mine said 5 weeks lead time then it just arrived
[12:25] <RaTTuS|BIG> in uk it had 354 early on today no it is awaiting delivery
[12:25] <RaTTuS|BIG> now*
[12:26] * xCP23x (~Chris@188-221-134-151.zone12.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:26] <thrawed> leds are overrated
[12:26] * PiBot sets mode +v xCP23x
[12:26] <thrawed> Gabrialdestruir: real electronics give statuses via a series of beeps and boops
[12:27] <Gabrialdestruir> lmao.
[12:27] <Gabrialdestruir> Visual to audio speaker...
[12:27] <Gabrialdestruir> interesting idea.
[12:30] <reider59> Not sure if it's on the list but just got an Ebuyer email and Transcend 16GB SDHC Class 10 SD Cards are going for ?7.99 inc free delivery* (check the asterisk out). Also Spaceloop 16GB Flash Drive for ?5.99 and free delivery*
[12:31] <thrawed> ebuyer aren't good for buying small stuff
[12:31] <thrawed> they're better if you're buying in bulk
[12:31] <reider59> 32GIG Flash drive at ?10.99 and a 32 GB Transcend SD Card (Class 10) at ?15.99
[12:31] <thrawed> or rather just buying a lot of stuff
[12:31] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:31] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[12:32] * yehnan (yehnan@111-250-160-5.dynamic.hinet.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[12:41] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Integral-UltimaPro-Class-SDHC-Card/dp/B004W2BPOC
[12:42] <RaTTuS|BIG> oops ignore that
[12:42] <reider59> ignore what? lol
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[12:43] * PiBot sets mode +v fredreichbier
[12:44] <gordonDrogon> Gabrialdestruir, http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/fiber-optic-cable-325mm-5m-p-985.html
[12:46] <Gabrialdestruir> Hmmm.... yea that would do the trick.
[12:48] <gordonDrogon> I think it might be fiddly for really short lengths though.
[12:49] <gordonDrogon> I've seen various consumer routers, etc. with e.g. sort of curved little mounded bits of acrylic to take LEDs from the PCB to the case..
[12:49] <gordonDrogon> moulded*
[12:51] <reider59> Wonder if you can also read the status of each LED on an LCD Module
[12:53] <thrawed> couldn't you replicate the led's same functionality through the gpio?
[12:55] * UKB|Away is now known as unknownbliss
[12:56] * thrawed (~t@unaffiliated/thrawed) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:56] <reider59> With a 20 x 4 LCD module you could maybe make a screen that shows a bar chart replicating the movement of each LED, like you do with Winamp
[12:57] * xlq (~ekselkiu@ has left #raspberrypi
[12:58] <Gabrialdestruir> You probably could replicate the functionality through the GPIO once the OS was up and running.
[12:58] * Tron1275 (~Tron1275@host213-122-192-100.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Tron1275
[12:58] <Gabrialdestruir> But then you'd lose like 6 GPIO points?
[12:58] <gordonDrogon> reider59, easy to do if you download 8 new characters into it - one with each of the 8 horizontal 'bars' filled.
[12:58] <Gabrialdestruir> and it wouldn't let you know what's going on while it booted up.
[12:59] <gordonDrogon> Gabrialdestruir, not sure you'd get the Ethernet LEDs - power fine, SD - probably could change the designated gpio pin in Linux using the /sys/class/leds interface..
[12:59] <gordonDrogon> power led is easy - just connect a new led to +3.3v...
[13:00] <booyaa> have anyone of you guys driven one of these? i suspet gordonDrogon or reider59 have? http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/basic-16x2-character-lcd-white-on-black-33v-p-698.html
[13:00] <reider59> I've had some characters running on my Arduino LCD Shield, smiley, stick man waving arms etc, heart. Due to be looking at the rest of the characters
[13:01] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea, I'm sure it'd be to some extent replicate-able, but I think it'd be a waste of GPIO especially if you were wanting to use the GPIO for other stuff like a cartridge board
[13:01] <Gabrialdestruir> er not board, input
[13:02] <Tron1275> soz to ask.. but noob here!! ... do the GPIO offer a variable resistance... i.e. able to dim an led??
[13:02] <reider59> I have a 16 x 2 on my Arduino LCD Shield and a 20 x 4 connected to my home made breakout board, from the example in the forum.
[13:02] <Gabrialdestruir> I wonder if you could do dual screen using the dsi or whatever it is.
[13:02] <booyaa> Tron1275: do you mean like pwm on arduino?
[13:02] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgJ7yck1qwY&feature=player_embedded
[13:02] <Tron1275> yeh..
[13:03] <Gabrialdestruir> Have like a 10" screen that you could have a terminal or w/e running on, then output your main desktop via hdmi or composite if they're used.
[13:04] <Tron1275> ... and no!!....
[13:04] <Gabrialdestruir> I'm thinking way too much for a project I'll probably never do .-.
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[13:13] * PiBot sets mode +v l23
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[13:15] <gordonDrogon> booyaa, yes, that's the same as the ones I've used.
[13:16] <reider59> Both of mine are the 5V version, forgot to say
[13:16] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[13:16] <gordonDrogon> booyaa, http://unicorn.drogon.net/pilcd.jpg
[13:16] <gordonDrogon> yea, mine too :)
[13:16] * M3nti0n|off is now known as M3nti0n
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[13:17] <gordonDrogon> booyaa, https://projects.drogon.net/raspberry-pi/wiringpi/lcd-library/
[13:17] <Gabrialdestruir> My Pi is so underutilized .-.
[13:18] * sutterCane (~Cane@f054009218.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:18] * PiBot sets mode +v sutterCane
[13:18] <gordonDrogon> Tron1275, there is a single PWM output that can be used to dim an LED.
[13:18] <sutterCane> my raspberry pi just came in. *so excited*
[13:20] <gordonDrogon> sutterCane, get it hooked up, turn it on...
[13:20] * Joric (~joric@unaffiliated/joric) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:20] * PiBot sets mode +v Joric
[13:21] <reider59> I started using Python from Texy in the forum, with my 20 x 4. Originally using jumper wires but then made up a ribbon cable and connectors with pins at one end. Finally moved to the breakout board and ribbon cable with two connectors. I then moved to Gordons wiringPi and it worked brilliantly. In contrast the Arduino LCD shield is plug in and go, no wiring at all. I use the Arduino library, some screens off
[13:21] <reider59> the net and LCD smartie when on my desktop with the Arduino plugged into the USB port
[13:21] * Joric (~joric@unaffiliated/joric) has left #raspberrypi
[13:22] <Gabrialdestruir> -facedesks-
[13:22] <reider59> oops need to get ready, due at the Community Centre in 35 mins
[13:22] <Gabrialdestruir> I'm gonna be annoyed if I wasted 8+ hours recompiling node.js and it worked just fine -.-
[13:22] <gordonDrogon> Hm. waiting on a parcel from Yodel... don't think I've had a delivery from them before, so I've no idea what time of day they normally turn up at. The Depot in Newton Abbot - a mere 11 miles away...
[13:22] <gordonDrogon> what's node.js?
[13:22] <reider59> java
[13:22] <gordonDrogon> ok
[13:23] <gordonDrogon> isn't the one that comes with debian ok?
[13:23] <Civil|2> reider59: it's not java, it's javascript :)
[13:23] <Gabrialdestruir> Oh, nope still not work. It's javascript, I need it for my ruby server but apparently haven't been able to get it to compile
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[13:24] <Tron1275> gordondragon .... hmm ... my idea was light the lazer ball on you tube.. not sure if you have seen it???
[13:24] <gordonDrogon> Tron1275, not familiar with it..
[13:25] <paxcoder> what SD card class do you reccomend? i heard rpi can't utilize class 10 speeds.
[13:25] <reider59> lol
[13:25] <gordonDrogon> paxcoder, I'm using sandisk Ultra class 6's.
[13:25] * tcial (~tcial@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:25] * PiBot sets mode +v tcial
[13:25] <Gabrialdestruir> What? The 4 dollar card earlier wasn't good enough?
[13:25] <gordonDrogon> and kingston c4's.
[13:26] <reider59> some class 10 cards work, they were the most problematic to begin with
[13:26] * tcial (~tcial@ Quit (Client Quit)
[13:26] <gordonDrogon> I get 20MB/sec reads out of the sandisk. fast enough for me.
[13:26] <Gabrialdestruir> I'm utilizing a Kingston MicroSD class 10
[13:26] <paxcoder> reider59: define "work"
[13:26] <reider59> run acceptably, speed and efficency
[13:27] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: yeah, but do you get class 10 speeds?
[13:27] <Gabrialdestruir> No clue, never bothered to test.
[13:27] <Ben64> i have a class 10, and i get errors often
[13:27] <drazyl> class 10 is generally slower for block-level access anyway
[13:27] <paxcoder> Ben64: thanks.
[13:27] <paxcoder> drazyl: than? all the lower classes?
[13:28] <Ben64> still works, but some things are very slow
[13:28] <drazyl> potentially, yes
[13:28] <drazyl> class 10 is optimised for moving large files
[13:28] <drazyl> it (generally) doesn't do random block access as well
[13:28] <Ben64> yep
[13:28] <Ben64> class 10 is measured differently than the others
[13:28] <drazyl> class 10 = great for cameras, not so good for computers
[13:28] <reider59> I`m happy with both my class 4 cards. Hope I don`t need to define "happy"
[13:28] <Ben64> kind of sketchy
[13:29] <paxcoder> alright. anyone tried class 6 vs class 4?
[13:29] <Ben64> will depend on the brand and the card itself
[13:30] <Gabrialdestruir> I haven't noticed any issues on mine, and I think the card was only like 10 bucks
[13:30] <Gabrialdestruir> and I know video plays from it great.
[13:30] * cccyRegeaneAway is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[13:30] <Gabrialdestruir> and it does OS just fine.
[13:30] <paxcoder> nvm, can't find class6 where i'm looking anywhere
[13:31] <sutterCane> first i have t download the linux distributions. and i have to prepare my sd-card.
[13:31] <Ben64> where are you looking that doesn't have class 6
[13:31] <Ben64> Gabrialdestruir: what distro you running?
[13:31] <paxcoder> Ben64: the cheaper of my 4 village computer shop
[13:31] <paxcoder> *s
[13:32] <Ben64> gordonDrogon: same question
[13:32] <Ben64> i propose a test (if running wheezy)
[13:32] <Ben64> run.... "time sudo apt-get install htop"
[13:33] <Ben64> post result, will show how awesome the sd card is
[13:33] <Gabrialdestruir> Raspbian
[13:33] <Ben64> real 1m43.075s
[13:33] <Ben64> i think most people would have a much shorter time
[13:33] <Ben64> might work on rasbian
[13:33] <Tron1275> I am using a 4gb class 4 PNY micro with adaptor.. works ok.. and no i'm not gonna define the 'ok'!
[13:34] <buZz> lol
[13:34] <paxcoder> Ben64: Gabrialdestruir also has class 10. i'd be interested in some other class
[13:34] <gordonDrogon> hangon..
[13:34] <Ben64> i'm interested in how this fares on all kinds of cards
[13:34] <Ben64> Tron1275: could you try it too? :D
[13:34] <Tron1275> gordonDragon.. if you get chance... put laser ball into you tube......
[13:35] * ebswift (~ebswift@ppp118-208-106-71.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
[13:35] <gordonDrogon> Setting up htop (1.0.1-1) ...
[13:35] <gordonDrogon> real 0m27.181s
[13:35] <gordonDrogon> user 0m13.490s
[13:35] <gordonDrogon> sys 0m2.640s
[13:35] <Ben64> :(
[13:35] <Tron1275> im not at my Pi:-( .. im stuck in work.. playing with cars.....
[13:35] <Ben64> i was right, my card blows
[13:35] <Ben64> took me almost 4x as long
[13:36] * reider59 (~reider59@cpc4-warr5-0-0-cust657.1-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Later)
[13:36] <gordonDrogon> doing it on another pi - seems much slower.
[13:36] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccyRegeaneAway
[13:36] <gordonDrogon> htop is already the newest version.
[13:36] <gordonDrogon> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[13:36] <gordonDrogon> 24.640u 1.580s 0:38.14 68.7% 0+0k 0+0io 43pf+0w
[13:36] <gordonDrogon> not helpful )-:
[13:36] <Ben64> O_o
[13:36] <Gabrialdestruir> real 0m58.185s user 0m15.420s sys 0m2.560s
[13:37] <Ben64> so far the sandisk wins
[13:37] <paxcoder> so gordon's class 4 beats both class 10. niice
[13:37] <gordonDrogon> Try: sudo hdparm -tT /dev/mmcblk0
[13:37] <gordonDrogon> actually mine are class 6's.
[13:37] <Gabrialdestruir> You're using a sandisk?
[13:37] <gordonDrogon> yes.
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[13:37] * PiBot sets mode +v yehnan
[13:37] <Ben64> but the sandisk ultra's are really good cards
[13:37] <Gabrialdestruir> Bah that's cheating -.-
[13:37] <Ben64> and expensive
[13:37] <Gabrialdestruir> Sandisk underrates all their cards
[13:38] <gordonDrogon> don't think they were that exepensive - I got them from some channel islands outfit... under a fiver each I think.
[13:38] <Gabrialdestruir> What does sudo hdparm -tT /dev/mmcblk0 do?
[13:38] <Ben64> Timing cached reads: 144 MB in 2.02 seconds = 71.19 MB/sec
[13:38] <Ben64> Timing buffered disk reads: 38 MB in 3.08 seconds = 12.33 MB/sec
[13:38] <Ben64> tests those two things
[13:39] <gordonDrogon> I get:
[13:39] <gordonDrogon> Timing cached reads: 160 MB in 2.02 seconds = 79.32 MB/sec
[13:39] <gordonDrogon> Timing buffered disk reads: 62 MB in 3.10 seconds = 20.01 MB/sec
[13:39] <gordonDrogon> the kingston class 4's were 16MB/sec.
[13:39] <Gabrialdestruir> Timing cached reads: 276 MB in 2.01 seconds = 137.45 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 48 MB in 3.07 seconds = 15.64 MB/sec
[13:39] <buZz> wish my raspi was online atm :P
[13:39] <gordonDrogon> hdpatm is a tool for doing stuff with drives, but the -T and -t does simple benchmarks - one reading from the disk buffer, the other reading from the disk 'surface' ...
[13:40] <gordonDrogon> just renewed my tax disc online. forgot as I'd normally do it at the post office - but that's still offline after the ramraid )_:
[13:40] <gordonDrogon> Tron1275, is that the Leone Labs laser ball thing?
[13:41] <paxcoder> is anyone using the pi to run a server?
[13:41] * StMichel (mkouhia@kosh.org.aalto.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[13:41] <nid0> <
[13:41] <Gabrialdestruir> Quite a few people are.
[13:42] * cccyRegeaneAway is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[13:42] <Gabrialdestruir> I know someone here had a whole ruby blog going on that showed cpu load and all that.
[13:42] <paxcoder> i guess they have hard drives attached to their pis, right?
[13:43] <nid0> I dont
[13:43] <nid0> not directly at least
[13:43] <Gabrialdestruir> I did for a few days to run movies off of.
[13:43] <paxcoder> nid0: you have all your stuff on an SD?
[13:44] * MauveGnome (~MauveGnom@host-92-21-173-181.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:44] * PiBot sets mode +v MauveGnome
[13:44] <nid0> no, its all mounted via iscsi
[13:44] <Gabrialdestruir> Cause apparently I can't use my Pi in the living room with network shares because the router in the living room bottlenecks the connection
[13:44] <drazyl> /dev/mmcblk0:
[13:44] <drazyl> Timing cached reads: 296 MB in 2.00 seconds = 148.04 MB/sec
[13:44] <drazyl> Timing buffered disk reads: 50 MB in 3.00 seconds = 16.64 MB/sec
[13:44] <gordonDrogon> paxcoder, http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1655
[13:44] <nid0> you may as well ditch the -T if you're after card speeds, its just -t thats meaningful
[13:45] <gordonDrogon> drazyl, that first number - I've seen it that high before - in-fact on one of my own Pi's with the standard foundation kernel, but I've never been able to get it with my own kernel...
[13:45] <gordonDrogon> I'm wondering if it's to do with ARM l2 caching or something...
[13:45] <drazyl> memory split maybe?
[13:47] <Tron1275> brb...
[13:47] <Gabrialdestruir> For like four times the price http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/odroid-x-is-like-a-quad-core-raspberry-pi-for-129-20120712/
[13:47] * Tron1275 (~Tron1275@host213-122-192-100.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
[13:47] <Gabrialdestruir> You can get a Pi on steroids
[13:48] <drazyl> it's not bad value for money, but it's not "gotta get me a couple to play with" cheap
[13:48] <buZz> And with a Mali-400 GPU on board (like the Samsung Galaxy S3)
[13:48] <buZz> pfff i hate this
[13:48] <buZz> my 2 year old phone ALSO has a mali-400
[13:49] <buZz> why are they promoting this new phone, while it has such a old gpu
[13:49] <buZz> oh
[13:49] <buZz> i have a Adreno 200 *blush*
[13:49] * l23 (~leonard@2002:54ae:e579:0:485d:123e:bda3:5902) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:50] <buZz> hmm wonder which hw has that mali then ..
[13:50] <Civil|2> buZz: mali-400 is rather old, yes, but it's still quite comparable to latest mobile gpu
[13:52] <paxcoder> afk
[13:53] * Tron1275 (~nobody@host213-122-192-100.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:53] * PiBot sets mode +v Tron1275
[13:53] * Husky (h@unaffiliated/coil) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:53] <Civil|2> buZz: mali400 is used in galaxy s2 (MP4, 200MHz afaik), galaxy note (MP4, 400MHz), Galaxy S3 (MP4, 400+ Mhz afaik) and in latest chineese tablets (rockchip, etc. MP1 to MP4)
[13:54] * Husky (h@unaffiliated/coil) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:54] * PiBot sets mode +v Husky
[13:57] * yaswanth (~yravella@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:57] * PiBot sets mode +v yaswanth
[13:57] <buZz> well
[13:57] <Civil|2> Gabrialdestruir: and in fact raspberry pi and odroid are rather different :) rpi is cheaper, but a lot slower
[13:57] <buZz> the more they use one chip, the faster it will get OpenMAX support
[14:00] * yaswanth (~yravella@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[14:01] <Gabrialdestruir> lol
[14:01] * MrZYX|off is now known as MrZYX
[14:01] <Gabrialdestruir> The Pi gets the job done.
[14:02] <Civil|2> buZz: it have openmax libraries, but, afaik, for a fee
[14:02] <gordonDrogon> there are lots of 'alternatives' to the Raspberry Pi, but none of then is actually a Raspberry Pi...
[14:02] <buZz> we just need one copy ;)
[14:03] <Tron1275> gordonDragon... like the labs one... but by the looks of it it wont be as smooth as there wont be any fading up n down.. unless i use the pwm pin to adjust the supply...?
[14:04] <Gabrialdestruir> Y U No Run Ubuntu Pi?
[14:04] <Gabrialdestruir> xD
[14:06] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-60-229-178-247.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[14:06] <paxcoder> ubuntu -_-
[14:06] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-60-229-178-247.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:06] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[14:06] <Gabrialdestruir> I happen to like Ubuntu tyvm
[14:07] <paxcoder> i happen to dislike it, you're welcome
[14:07] <Gabrialdestruir> Touche
[14:07] <paxcoder> ;-)
[14:08] <buZz> man
[14:08] <buZz> ubuntu is like someone decided to install linux, then halfway started to watch cartoons cause he was bored
[14:09] <buZz> if you dont want to put any effort in configuring your linux, plz stick to windows ;)
[14:09] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-60-229-178-247.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:09] <sutterCane> what size should my sd-card have? does the pi recognise 16 GB sd cards?
[14:09] <buZz> yes it will work sutterCane
[14:09] <Gabrialdestruir> The Pi recognizes all SDHC cards
[14:09] <nid0> yes
[14:09] <buZz> should be >2GB
[14:09] <buZz> well
[14:09] <buZz> recommended
[14:10] <Gabrialdestruir> Technically you "could" run an entire OS off of 128MB give or take.
[14:10] <Gabrialdestruir> If you count openelec as an OS
[14:10] <sutterCane> thanks. then i am going to buy one right now. i only had a 2GB lying around
[14:10] <Gabrialdestruir> and wanted no storage.
[14:11] * Tron1275 (~nobody@host213-122-192-100.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:11] <sutterCane> i want storage, at least a few gigabytes. i will hook up the pi to a nas and an external hdd ;)
[14:11] <Gabrialdestruir> 2GB is good if you want to test something out, but you definitely want something like 8 or 16 in the long run if you plan to do a lot of stuff with it.
[14:13] <Gabrialdestruir> Well 2GB you could mount NAS and external hdd as folders within the system and then you'd be fine.
[14:13] <Gabrialdestruir> just store all your stuff on those.
[14:13] <sutterCane> is it faaster to run the os from sd-card or from an usb-stick?
[14:14] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: tutors?
[14:14] <Gabrialdestruir> I've heard USB stick is faster I think
[14:14] <paxcoder> sutterCane: the USB stick.
[14:15] <sutterCane> okay thanks. then i am going to buy a couple usb sticks and one maybe 16 gb card. the sticks are much cheaper
[14:15] <paxcoder> sutterCane: "class 6" SD card basically means 6MB/s read. Compare that to the 100-something MB/s supported by the USB 2.0 standard
[14:15] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[14:15] <sutterCane> pacxoder: very persuasive
[14:16] <paxcoder> sutterCane: basically, the SD card is just a mandatory nuisance.
[14:16] <buZz> paxcoder: it means write
[14:17] <buZz> not read :)
[14:17] * Tron1275 (~nobody@host213-122-192-100.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:17] * PiBot sets mode +v Tron1275
[14:17] * paxcoder checks his facts... so far they seem very much off :-P
[14:18] <sutterCane> but why are all sites, even the oficcial one, state that you should "prepare sd-card" and what not to install the images. whya they dont't recommend usb?
[14:18] <buZz> paxcoder: ehr wait
[14:18] <Gabrialdestruir> Also just because USB2.0 is suppose to get 100MB/s
[14:18] <buZz> i read now its 'mixed'
[14:18] <Gabrialdestruir> doesn't mean it actually will
[14:18] <Ben64> 100MB/s?
[14:18] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: i don't think it is
[14:18] <sutterCane> Gabrialdestruir: of course it depends on the stick you are using
[14:19] <Gabrialdestruir> I think USB2.0 is suppose to be like 480Mb/s anyways
[14:19] <drazyl> I think we are confusing our bits and bytes somewhere
[14:19] <paxcoder> drazyl: yes
[14:19] <Ben64> 480mbit = 60MB
[14:19] * buZz nibbles on drazyl
[14:19] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea
[14:19] <paxcoder> here, this is supposed to be a fast stick: http://www.corsair.com/en/usb-drive/flash-voyager-gt/flash-voyager-gt-usb-3-16gb-usb-flashdrive.html
[14:19] <drazyl> USB data packets are tiny as well, so the overhead is quite big
[14:20] * Tron1275 (~nobody@host213-122-192-100.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[14:20] <paxcoder> 21 MB/s
[14:20] <Gabrialdestruir> It's also USB 3
[14:20] <Gabrialdestruir> something that the Pi lacks
[14:20] * GriffenJBS (~john@adsl-65-8-175-183.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] * PiBot sets mode +v GriffenJBS
[14:20] <Ben64> works on usb2
[14:20] <paxcoder> Gabrialdestruir: i think it may be backwards compatible
[14:21] <sutterCane> paxcoder: it definatly is
[14:21] <nid0> yes, but theres no point showing what you describe as "a fast stick" when the only thing that makes it so fast is the use of a technology the pi doesnt support
[14:21] <Gabrialdestruir> True, but that doesn't mean it'll get anywhere near it's claimed 21MB/s
[14:22] <paxcoder> nid0: 21 MB/s < 35 MB/s of the max on a 2.0 std
[14:23] <paxcoder> the versions with higher speeds (and capacities) will be fettered though.
[14:23] <Ben64> the bottleneck on almost every flash drive is the flash
[14:23] <nid0> this whole conversation is regarding using it as an os stick anyway, so the claimed *sequential* write speed is irrelevant
[14:24] <Ben64> would be better off getting a usb hard drive
[14:24] <paxcoder> nid0: if you have a better idea how a stick would fare against an sd card for this purpose, do share.
[14:25] <Gabrialdestruir> Just get a USB hdd like Ben64 said.
[14:25] <mirf> surely it depends on the Class of SD and the class of the flash memory in the USB?
[14:25] <mirf> you can't just say one is faster than the other
[14:26] <paxcoder> Ben64: i'm looking at my root partition on this desktop pc, and it's only 9GB filled. after all these years (though i don't play games). maybe 8GB sd will be enough for the OS.
[14:26] <Gabrialdestruir> Well last I checked SD Cards had a number of restrictions on them in regards to read/write
[14:27] <sutterCane> Gabrialdestruir: do you mean that usb discs are usually faster than the sticks?
[14:27] <Ben64> much faster
[14:27] <RaTTuS|BIG> yes for geenral OS use they are
[14:27] <RaTTuS|BIG> my rpi is a lot more responsive useing a usb HD as it's root fs
[14:27] * ReggieUK (~ReggieUK@5aca5630.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:27] * PiBot sets mode +v ReggieUK
[14:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o ReggieUK
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[14:27] * PiBot sets mode +v Tron1275
[14:27] <Ben64> and cheaper
[14:27] <paxcoder> meh, i maintain that the whole SD is mandatory thing is a nuisance
[14:28] <Ben64> best usb flash drive you can get is about 1.8GB/$
[14:28] <Ben64> you can easily get 18GB/$ on usb hdd
[14:28] <Gabrialdestruir> Yea
[14:28] <sutterCane> Ben64: well i dont think they are cheaper, but if it is significantly faster is might be worth it
[14:28] <Gabrialdestruir> a 2TB only cost me about 120 bucks
[14:29] <Ben64> = 16.6GB/$
[14:29] <buZz> Gabrialdestruir: thats only one hour for a well payed service provider ;)
[14:29] <Ben64> that flash drive posted before is 16GB for $30
[14:29] <Ben64> 0.53GB/$
[14:30] <sutterCane> meh, i maintain that the whole SD is mandatory thing is a nuisance
[14:30] <sutterCane> [14:25] <+Ben64> best usb flash drive you can get is about 1.8GB/$
[14:30] <sutterCane> [14:26] <+Ben64> you can easily get 18GB/$ on usb hdd
[14:30] <sutterCane> sry
[14:30] <buZz> UNFORGIVABLE
[14:30] * buZz starts spanking
[14:30] <sutterCane> :-D
[14:30] <Tron1275> ... so whats the main thing the Pi is gonna be used for??
[14:30] <buZz> Tron1275: for me, crying
[14:31] <mirf> hehe
[14:31] <mirf> Tron1275: tinkering, I hope
[14:31] <Tron1275> ...?? why?
[14:31] <buZz> Tron1275: crying because so many ppl are JUST running xbmc on it!
[14:31] <paxcoder> Tron1275: i want to make it my #freedombox
[14:31] <Civil|2> Ben64: afaik, you should look for 3TB 5400rpm, they should give you around 18GB/$
[14:31] <mirf> that's the idea
[14:31] <gordonDrogon> if you think the mandatory SD a nuisance then you're free to re-write the ROM inside the GPU that boots it...
[14:31] <buZz> ruining potential
[14:31] <Ben64> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148865
[14:31] <Ben64> 23GB/$
[14:31] <buZz> gordonDrogon: or just mount root somewhere else ;)
[14:31] <gordonDrogon> I've not viewed a single video on any of my Pi's yet...
[14:31] <Ben64> 7200rpm
[14:31] <buZz> gordonDrogon: i havent even started X :P
[14:32] <gordonDrogon> buZz, yup. although I'm not really having any issues with the SD cards right now, so don't see what the fuss is about.
[14:32] <sutterCane> okay i will go to the store now and buy me some gigabytes!!1 talk to you later guys
[14:32] <mirf> heeh I started x but it was rubbish
[14:32] <gordonDrogon> buZz, oh, I've run up X - xfce4 several times.
[14:32] <Ben64> i'm waiting for prices to get to 35GB/$ or better
[14:33] <mirf> beauty of the pi for me is these gpio pins
[14:33] <buZz> well i want to run X
[14:33] <Tron1275> .. i cant get wifi going with XBMC :-( ...
[14:33] <Tron1275> anyone got hub problems??
[14:33] <buZz> Tron1275: they have nothing to do with each other
[14:33] * ebarch (~ebarch@li435-232.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:33] * PiBot sets mode +v ebarch
[14:34] <Tron1275> buZz xbmc and wifi?
[14:34] <mirf> sure you can go the arduino route but you don't run linux on arduino
[14:34] <buZz> Tron1275: xbmc = linux application
[14:34] <buZz> Tron1275: wifi = network interface
[14:34] <paxcoder> can someone give me a link to where a process of setting up the SD card as the boot proxy only (and booting from a hard drive) is described?
[14:34] <mirf> Tron1275: get your wifi working first, then load xbmc and it will use it
[14:34] <Tron1275> buZz i dont think the drivers are in XBMC for my wifi stick.....
[14:35] <buZz> Tron1275: correct
[14:35] <buZz> Tron1275: XBMC has 0 drivers for wireless
[14:35] <mirf> paxcoder: check the forum there is somethgin there I'm sure
[14:35] <mirf> buZz: I think he's got raspbmc installed or something
[14:35] <mirf> Tron1275: what's the wifi card?
[14:35] <buZz> well he gotta be clear, i am no clairvoyant todat
[14:35] <buZz> today*
[14:36] <Tron1275> buZz ..lol... my problem exactly..... but with wheezy wifi works under cli but not after the startx command!
[14:36] <buZz> i never run X
[14:36] <Tron1275> soz.. its a 'n' nano ebay special.. not got the info here...
[14:36] <buZz> nor do i believe in destroying this beautifull thing by running xbmc on it
[14:36] * sutterCane (~Cane@f054009218.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[14:37] <nid0> itll be an rtl8188cu
[14:37] <mirf> nid0: I was thinking that
[14:37] <nid0> there're countless threads on the forum, along with an automated tool someone's written, on setting that up
[14:37] <gordonDrogon> buZz, Oh I don't know - just get another... the same SoC is already in-use in a set-top box...
[14:37] <mirf> yeah someone has written a script on the forum that will help you Tron1275
[14:38] <buZz> gordonDrogon: imho if you want a settopbox, you shouldnt buy a devboard
[14:38] <Tron1275> just goin out on call out... back soon.. i'll leav this on... cheers
[14:38] <buZz> because clearly you are not the target audience for a devboard
[14:39] <Gabrialdestruir> Oh... you're one of those people....
[14:39] <mirf> yah I think a lot of people bought raspi's because of the reports that it would run xbmc
[14:39] <buZz> hahaha, check these raspi cases; https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/399559_397199987000380_1969882570_n.jpg
[14:39] <mirf> it's one application but not exactly suited
[14:39] <Gabrialdestruir> I use my second Pi to run purely OpenElec
[14:39] <buZz> Gabrialdestruir: i see running XBMC as a terrible way to destroy any potential to learning or developing you ever had with the device
[14:40] <Gabrialdestruir> I don't see why.
[14:40] <buZz> well
[14:40] <mirf> you can learn about linux by getting xbmc working
[14:40] <buZz> its ment to educate/ help ppl to learn
[14:40] <nid0> if nothing else, I dont recall being forced to sign an agreement when buying the pi stating that it'd be used for learning & development
[14:40] <mirf> you can learn about codecs etc
[14:40] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[14:40] <mirf> it's not that bad#
[14:40] <Gabrialdestruir> Just because I run XBMC on a Pi ocassionally doesn't mean I can't pop in raspbian at some time later and dev on it.
[14:40] <buZz> if you just flash some premade rom
[14:40] <buZz> you dont learn p00p
[14:41] <Hodapp> geez, it's not like you can just... remove a memory card for one OS and pop in a memory card for another OS!
[14:41] <buZz> well, its a good way to go against anything the foundation stands for
[14:41] <Hodapp> er, wait, my mistake, you can
[14:41] <buZz> Hodapp: my point is >50% is not doing this
[14:41] <mirf> but the foundation were the ones pushing its' cpabilites with xbmc...
[14:41] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccyRegeaneAway
[14:41] <buZz> which makes me sad
[14:41] <Gabrialdestruir> That's like buying a Mac and saying it's only good for Media Editing and doing anything else is pointless.
[14:41] <buZz> nah they are perfect paperweights
[14:42] <Hodapp> has anyone ported Processing to the RPi yet?
[14:42] <Gabrialdestruir> Any money made from sales to MC people goes to help the foundation.
[14:42] <chithead> the raspberry pi was intended as education tool, but that doesn't mean you couldn't find better a purpose for it
[14:42] <chithead> a better*
[14:42] <Gabrialdestruir> So why exactly should I only "learn" on my Pi?
[14:42] <buZz> chithead: you find watching TV better than learning something?
[14:42] * ebarch (~ebarch@li435-232.members.linode.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:43] <Hodapp> buZz: A significant use of my XBMC setup, when I had one, was watching lectures.
[14:43] <chithead> if I read correctly, the idea was that schoolchildren learn to code on the pi
[14:43] <Hodapp> buZz: So piss off.
[14:43] <buZz> :P
[14:43] <buZz> hey, i HAVE xbmc
[14:43] <buZz> on a xbox
[14:43] * ebarch (~ebarch@li435-232.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:43] * PiBot sets mode +v ebarch
[14:43] <Hodapp> I ran mine on a dumpster machine that was large and clunky. Had the RPi been out at that point I'd have switched at a moment's notice.
[14:44] <buZz> actually on two xboxes
[14:44] <buZz> well i'm not convicting anyone
[14:44] <mirf> hehe nope :P
[14:44] <buZz> i'm just saying it makes me sad to see this
[14:44] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:44] * PiBot sets mode +v mentar
[14:45] <mirf> buZz: ther'es a lot of people who aren't just using it for xbmc so be happy for them/
[14:45] <mirf> ?
[14:45] <Gabrialdestruir> People want to spend 35 bucks and get a nice little media center.... I don't really see the issue.
[14:45] <Gabrialdestruir> It's like buying any PC and put it to use for what you want.
[14:45] <chithead> the foundation makes a profit from each device sold, plus they are not scarce any more. so it's not like you take the pi away from some needy person
[14:45] <buZz> Gabrialdestruir: because its for the active irc members to support all these users
[14:45] <buZz> cause the distros arent doing it
[14:45] <buZz> and the foundation isnt doing it
[14:45] <buZz> and forums are ... pff forums
[14:45] <Gabrialdestruir> and those users are gonna....
[14:45] <chithead> what kind of support do you expect for $35?
[14:45] <Hodapp> and forums are ... pff answering questions that no one in here had a god damn clue on
[14:45] <Gabrialdestruir> GASPS learn something!
[14:46] <buZz> well
[14:46] <buZz> i am happy i got to share my view with you ;)
[14:46] <mirf> the forums are prtty good
[14:46] <mirf> aprat from the ridiculous amount of unused space at the top of the page...
[14:46] <Hodapp> I've only posted once but I had an obscure question and a quick response.
[14:47] <drazyl> nothing wrong with wanting a pi as a media centre, even if I think it's mad
[14:47] <Gabrialdestruir> Honestly, I haven't seen very many people in here that want just purely xbmc and don't play around with it.
[14:48] <buZz> well, stick around :)
[14:48] <buZz> they usually dont stay long
[14:48] <drazyl> but, if you go down that route, be prepared to put some effort in and don't complain that if you can't get it the way you want
[14:48] <Hodapp> Most people who wanted XBMC already found a better route to it.
[14:48] <buZz> i love those new 50 usd android machines
[14:48] <mirf> they are much more suited for media buZz
[14:48] <ebarch> buZz: which ones?
[14:48] <buZz> http://e.dx.com/albums/201207/android-4.0-mini-pc/index.html
[14:48] <buZz> those ones
[14:49] <Gabrialdestruir> I have stuck around, I've been in and out of this room since the fiasco RS and Farnell called a launch.
[14:49] <chithead> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/532332455-Mele-A1000-TV-box-Allwinner-A10-hackable-device-wholesalers.html
[14:49] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:51] <Gabrialdestruir> Yes and it's double the price, your point? The Pi has a cheap price point, and it does the job decently enough.
[14:51] * ReggieUK growls at the alwinner junk
[14:51] * leighbb (~yaaic@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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[14:51] <buZz> ReggieUK: whats wrong with it?
[14:52] <buZz> 'its not british' ?
[14:52] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[14:53] <Hodapp> I'm going to guess that its 'hackability' is more incidental than designed-in, and support is comparatively crappy.
[14:53] <mirf> for use as a media consumption box it's great
[14:53] <chithead> people are already busy to port ubuntu to it
[14:53] <mirf> for hacking I think rpi is still beating it
[14:54] <chithead> rpi is an incredibly closed device, more closed even than many android
[14:54] <drazyl> to be honest, the more arm devices in the hands of end users to play with, the better for computing in general
[14:54] <Hodapp> chithead: I highly doubt that.
[14:54] <buZz> also the better for mainstream linux :)
[14:54] <ReggieUK> no it was the way that they originally surfaced as a pi killer, even to the point where someone tried to copy but not copy the pi name (gooseberry), then managed to sell the 500 dev boards they'd got and try and claim it as a success
[14:54] <chithead> Hodapp: no need to believe or doubt, just look at the blobs that are required to even boot it
[14:55] <[SkG]> (14:51:33) (+mirf) for hacking I think rpi is still beating it <-- + arduino = epic win
[14:55] <Hodapp> chithead: In part because I've worked with a large number of Android systems and on none of them have I had nearly as easy of a time changing the OS, getting to a dev environment, or being able to toggle GPIO directly, which is what I've done thus far.
[14:55] <buZz> ReggieUK: hahaha yeah that gooseberry story was funny :D
[14:55] <chithead> hacking other stuff with the rpi is very nicely possible, especially since the jtag master is possible now via gpio
[14:55] <ReggieUK> and of course there is a tendency for asian coders/hackers to leech from open source developers and try and make code proprietary
[14:56] <Hodapp> what's this about JTAG master via GPIO?
[14:56] <Gabrialdestruir> I wouldn't say it's worse than any android device, and while the blobs do prevent us from full GPU hackery, it's better than being locked into a single boot, single kernel and a single OS
[14:56] <Hodapp> even my "hackable" Android device was still a fucking pain in the ass compared to the RPi.
[14:57] <chithead> Hodapp: the rpi can talk jtag via gpio now, work on this has been ongoing for some time and I think recently they achieved some success
[14:57] <buZz> ReggieUK: well its better then some UK company pushing 'open hardware' and then after 892379827 are sold the buyers are discovering it as closed and with shitty unusuable implementations that will need many hours of work to rewrite
[14:57] <Hodapp> chithead: have you any citation for this success you claim?
[14:57] <chithead> Hodapp: in the forum, let me check
[14:58] <Gabrialdestruir> Plus take into consideration that most android devices usually get locked down at the manufacture, then again by whatever the service provider is.
[14:58] <ReggieUK> they've made it as open as they can whilst protecting the IP that they've bought and their own proprietary stuff that is integral to protecting the IP licensing of their partners
[14:58] <Hodapp> Gabrialdestruir: none of mine had a service provider.
[14:59] <chithead> Hodapp: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1431
[15:00] <Gabrialdestruir> Broadcom doesn't want people going in and reverse engineering their chips or something, it's understandable.
[15:01] <chithead> android devices often have a locked boot loader (and phones of course baseband), but apart from that only some drivers are proprietary. if you know how to talk to the hardware, there are no additional obstacles.
[15:02] <Gabrialdestruir> Honestly it's not much different from a proprietary graphics driver on a desktop.
[15:02] <chithead> for the rpi, the blob that you load into the device determines what you are allowed to do and what not
[15:02] <Hodapp> chithead: if you know how to talk to the hardware, everything is "open".
[15:03] <Hodapp> chithead: knowing how to talk to the hardware *is* the obstacle in the vast majority of cases.
[15:03] <Gabrialdestruir> If we knew how to talk to the hardware, we wouldn't need the blob in the first place.
[15:04] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:04] <Hodapp> chithead: this looks a little too in-development to say you can 'now' do it
[15:05] <chithead> Hodapp: it has been demonstrated. it was unclear whether it was possible before, now it is clear
[15:07] <chithead> regarding the openness, it is a significant difference if the manufacturer just doesn't care, or takes active steps in preventing you from using the hardware fully. in the proprietary graphics driver case, there are parts which correspond to the former definition (3d acceleration etc.) and to the latter (everything involving drm and copy protection)
[15:07] <Hodapp> chithead: "someone demonstrated this somewhere supposedly" is kind of a long shot to say "you can now do it".
[15:08] <Gabrialdestruir> That's like people showing basic android w/e running....
[15:08] <Gabrialdestruir> and them actually having a full version running with HW Accell and sound and whatever.
[15:08] <Gabrialdestruir> It takes time to go from proof of concept to fully functional.
[15:09] <chithead> let me quote myself: "the rpi can talk jtag via gpio now, work on this has been ongoing for some time and I think recently they achieved some success" << I never claimed fully functional
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[15:40] <Tron1275> im off.. catch u all soon.....
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[15:59] <RoTorIT> ahoy! greetings land lubbers :-)
[16:01] <slartsa> I won't greet anyone, jquery annoys me.
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[16:01] * PiBot sets mode +v FUZxxl
[16:01] <FUZxxl> Hello!
[16:01] <slartsa> oh, wrong channel :D
[16:01] <slartsa> I was supposed to rant about it on #jquery
[16:02] <FUZxxl> I have a problem with a pi and arch: It doesn't boot anymore
[16:03] <drazyl> what's the last thing that displays?
[16:03] <RoTorIT> Im new to this so.. whats the "best" / most common / most stable OS for a RPI these days?
[16:03] * timewa1ker (~timewalke@ Quit (Quit: leaving)
[16:03] <RoTorIT> bot?
[16:03] <mikma> rotorit: all of them
[16:04] <drazyl> Windows 8
[16:04] <RoTorIT> mikma: cool
[16:04] <FUZxxl> drazyl: The colors
[16:04] <RoTorIT> windows 8? O.O
[16:04] <FUZxxl> This colour-pallete-like thing
[16:04] <FUZxxl> Usually it just flashes once on startup
[16:04] <drazyl> FUZxxl - have you tried reimaging the sd card?
[16:04] <FUZxxl> yes
[16:05] <FUZxxl> That works
[16:05] <gordonDrogon> RoTorIT, the best is what people like - I like Debian, so I'm running Raspbian...
[16:05] <FUZxxl> I'd like to kow the cause though
[16:05] <RoTorIT> how to ask the bot in here?
[16:05] <drazyl> FUZxxl - corrupted files on the card most likely
[16:05] <FUZxxl> How is that possible? I installed it just two hours ago
[16:06] <FUZxxl> Should I run fsck?
[16:06] <drazyl> shutting it down cleanly?
[16:06] <slartsa> talk about slow, just now I realized that the "bian" part of Raspbian comes from debian :D
[16:06] <FUZxxl> I did so
[16:06] <RoTorIT> gordonDrogon: aha.. yah.. i guess that applies everywhere... it is a mather of taste... what you think of the porting of Android 4.0 then? will it be all good?
[16:07] <chithead> android 4.0 in 256 mb is not so much fun
[16:07] <RoTorIT> owh..
[16:07] <drazyl> android 4 in 512mb is painful IMHO
[16:07] <gordonDrogon> RoTorIT, personally, I think it's a waste of time and resources. But I have an android phone, I do not want an android desktop PC, however I'm sure it's a fun an exciting project for those who like android.
[16:07] * prpplague (~prpplague@ppp-70-242-122-117.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) Quit (Quit: Later Folks!)
[16:08] <drazyl> FUZxxl what make sd card - could it be compatability issue?
[16:09] <FUZxxl> drazyl: Sorry. I failed to parse your grammar
[16:09] <drazyl> what make (& model) is the sd card
[16:09] <FUZxxl> CnMemory 32 GiB card (class 10)
[16:09] <thrawed> never heard of cnmemory
[16:10] <FUZxxl> The card is new
[16:10] <chithead> http://elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals#SD_cards lists only the cnmemory 8gb card as confirmed working
[16:10] <RoTorIT> gordonDrogon: yah, I have an android phone too.. and happy with that... just learning how to make the most use of my RPIs just got them in today. Actually.. I`m not sure what to use them for yet :D
[16:10] <FUZxxl> Well, the system booted before
[16:10] <FUZxxl> It stopped working after I did an update of all software
[16:10] <FUZxxl> there was an update for the kernel as well
[16:10] * [SLB] (~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua) Quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt)
[16:11] <FUZxxl> I think that might be the cause
[16:11] <FUZxxl> I am completely new to arch
[16:11] <drazyl> it's possible - haven't used arch on the pi so not familiar with the update process
[16:12] <TheBrayn> doesn't arch have a fallback kernel?
[16:12] <FUZxxl> Should I better use Debian instead
[16:12] <FUZxxl> ?
[16:13] <chithead> FUZxxl: choose one distro from here http://elinux.org/RPi_Distributions
[16:14] <TheBrayn> I'll probably use gentoo with a binhost or distcc
[16:14] * MauveGnome (~MauveGnom@host-92-21-173-181.as13285.net) has left #raspberrypi
[16:15] <FUZxxl> I think I'll go for raspbian
[16:15] <FUZxxl> I am used to Debian and Ubuntu
[16:15] <thrawed> FUZxxl: raspbian is currently recommended distro
[16:15] <gordonDrogon> RoTorIT, tricky - I'm a software engineer/developer/hardware hacker, so I just want a system I can program easilly...
[16:15] * Kingpin13 (~Kingpin13@Wikipedia/Kingpin13) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:15] * PiBot sets mode +v Kingpin13
[16:15] <thrawed> FUZxxl: although they change their mind about that faster than I change my socks
[16:16] <gordonDrogon> RoTorIT, and easy for me to pick debian (raspbian) as I've been using debian for 18+ years...
[16:16] <gordonDrogon> just pick one and stick to it.
[16:16] <RoTorIT> gordonDrogon: awesome!
[16:16] <RoTorIT> will do thanks :-)
[16:16] <thrawed> just don't pick fedora
[16:16] <FUZxxl> Is Raspbian using hardfloat?
[16:17] <thrawed> FUZxxl: yes
[16:17] <FUZxxl> nice
[16:17] <chithead> switching distros is as easy as swapping the sd cards they are on. so you can try them all and stay with the one you like best
[16:17] <ziltro2> Once other distributions start using the FPU then the recomended one might change again... :)
[16:17] <RoTorIT> hardfloat?
[16:17] <RoTorIT> !hardfloat?
[16:17] <RoTorIT> !hardfloat
[16:18] <thrawed> RoTorIT: Limitation of shitty choice of cpu
[16:18] <RoTorIT> no bot in here?
[16:18] <thrawed> !g test
[16:18] <RoTorIT> thrawed: ok :-)
[16:18] <PiBot> thrawed: http://www.speedtest.net/ - "Speedtest.net - The Global Broadband Speed Test"
[16:18] <ziltro2> Hardware floating point unit. 'hardfloat' is a bit of a silly name...
[16:18] <thrawed> !g define:hardfloat
[16:18] <RoTorIT> thrawed: thanks
[16:18] <PiBot> thrawed: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort/ - "ArmHardFloatPort - Debian Wiki"
[16:18] <chithead> the softfp distros might be slower, but performance is ok for experimenting with stuff
[16:19] <FUZxxl> About ten times slower for fp-intensive stuff
[16:19] <gordonDrogon> !w
[16:19] <gordonDrogon> pibot's died..
[16:19] <thrawed> RoTorIT: "The port is necessary because the official Debian Wheezy armhf release is compatible only with versions of the ARM architecture later than the one used on the Raspberry Pi (ARMv7-A CPUs and higher, vs the Raspberry Pi's ARMv6 CPU)."
[16:19] <thrawed> !weather
[16:19] <thrawed> !w london
[16:19] <PiBot> thrawed: in london. Temp 68??F. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 68%, Later 72??F - 55??F. Condition: Partly Sunny.
[16:19] <RoTorIT> nice
[16:20] <ziltro2> Well that's utterly useful...
[16:20] <gordonDrogon> Hmph. of-course it can lookup my IP address... Doh..
[16:20] <gordonDrogon> !w buckfastleigh
[16:20] <PiBot> gordonDrogon: in Buckfastleigh, Devon. Temp 63??F. Condition: Drizzle, Humidity: 94%, Later 70??F - 52??F. Condition: Rain.
[16:20] <ziltro2> Still not got the ??F fixed then, huh?
[16:20] <thrawed> gordonDrogon: I can't remember how to get it to change to a proper celcius though
[16:21] <FUZxxl> Can it also give weather information in degrees celsius?
[16:21] <thrawed> FUZxxl: Yeah, but I've forgotten how
[16:21] <FUZxxl> hehe
[16:21] <TheBrayn> !help w
[16:21] <thrawed> !w help
[16:21] <PiBot> Not found.
[16:21] <FUZxxl> !W Leienfelden-Echterdingen
[16:22] <PiBot> FUZxxl: in Leinfelden-Echterdingen, Baden-W??rttemberg. Temp 86??F. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 27%, Later 86??F - 61??F. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[16:22] <thrawed> !weather help
[16:22] <PiBot> Not found.
[16:22] * RoTorIT is going to print a box for his RPI next
[16:22] <thrawed> !g RoTorIT
[16:22] <PiBot> thrawed: http://www.thingiverse.com/ROTORIT - "About ROTORIT - Thingiverse"
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> !w
[16:22] <PiBot> SpeedEvil: in Glenrothes, Fife. Temp 289K. Condition: Mostly Cloudy, Humidity: 88%, Later 291K - 284K. Condition: Thunderstorm.
[16:22] <ziltro2> Fantastic. :)
[16:22] <ziltro2> That'll do.
[16:23] * MoleMan_ is now known as MoleMan
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> humidity is 3% low, temperature is spot on, it's not really a thunderstorm, but it's certainly that sort of weatehr
[16:23] <RoTorIT> !factoids
[16:24] <TheBrayn> !weather_set c
[16:24] <PiBot> TheBrayn: You're now using celsius.
[16:24] <TheBrayn> !w F??rstenfeldbruck
[16:24] <PiBot> TheBrayn: in F??rstenfeldbruck, Bavaria. Temp 29??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 33%, Later 32??C - 13??C. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[16:24] <FUZxxl> !weather_set c
[16:24] <PiBot> FUZxxl: You're now using celsius.
[16:24] <gordonDrogon> !weather_set c
[16:24] <PiBot> gordonDrogon: You're now using celsius.
[16:24] <RoTorIT> is there anyfactoids`for the bot anywhere?
[16:24] <FUZxxl> !w Fucking
[16:24] <PiBot> Not found.
[16:24] <gordonDrogon> cool bananas.
[16:24] <FUZxxl> hm...
[16:24] <TheBrayn> !w Petting
[16:24] <PiBot> TheBrayn: in Petting, Bavaria. Temp 30??C. Condition: Partly Cloudy, Humidity: 40%, Later 27??C - 17??C. Condition: Mostly Sunny.
[16:24] <ziltro2> Its in Austria.
[16:24] <FUZxxl> this program is not familiar with austria
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> !w dildo
[16:24] <PiBot> Not found.
[16:24] <drazyl> FUZxxl mind the language
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> (It's in canada)
[16:24] <FUZxxl> drazyl: Whar? Fucking is a place in Austria
[16:24] <ziltro2> I want to go there. ;)
[16:25] <thrawed> !weather_set c
[16:25] <PiBot> thrawed: You're now using celsius.
[16:25] <FUZxxl> !w Renningen
[16:25] <RoTorIT> !define factoids
[16:25] <PiBot> FUZxxl: in Renningen, Baden-W??rttemberg. Temp 30??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 27%, Later 33??C - 17??C. Condition: Clear.
[16:25] <thrawed> this bot really needs to go
[16:25] <TheBrayn> :>
[16:25] <TheBrayn> because it doesn't know the weather in fucking?
[16:26] <ziltro2> !w hell
[16:26] <PiBot> Not found.
[16:26] <thrawed> TheBrayn: because it just derails the channel
[16:26] <TheBrayn> true
[16:26] <ziltro2> Apparently religion was wrong. ;)
[16:26] <thrawed> it's not useful at all
[16:26] <yehnan> Hi, I tried CyanogenMOD 7.2 image(Android 2.3) https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2qw32upVDnkT0JXNkoyY1hSOUU and it can boot successfully, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35616101/IMG_1202.jpg
[16:26] <TheBrayn> yehnan: did you try any apps?
[16:27] * tcial (~tcial@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:27] * PiBot sets mode +v tcial
[16:27] <drazyl> yehnan - that is awesomely useless :)
[16:27] <gordonDrogon> !w mordor
[16:27] <PiBot> Not found.
[16:27] <TheBrayn> does angry birds run smooth? :>
[16:27] <thrawed> TheBrayn: ahaahahahahaha
[16:27] <yehnan> but, booting CyanogenMOD 9 image(Android 4.0) http://www.4shared.com/archive/m_eBBrh_/android_sd_2tar.html failed. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35616101/IMG_1196.jpg error message is this https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35616101/IMG_1192.jpg
[16:27] <FUZxxl> !w Qingdao
[16:27] <PiBot> FUZxxl: in Qingdao, Shandong on Thu Aug 2 04:00:00 2012. Temp 26??C. Condition: Clear, Humidity: 89%, Later 31??C - 22??C. Condition: Fog.
[16:27] <RoTorIT> haha.. this looks cool... http://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=rpi&sa=Search I will print one of those options next :D
[16:27] <yehnan> Have anyone tried android 4.0 on rpi?
[16:27] * D34TH (D34TH@unaffiliated/d34th) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:27] * PiBot sets mode +v D34TH
[16:28] <thrawed> RoTorIT: there's much better designs floating around
[16:28] <yehnan> TheBrayn: CyanogenMOD 7.2(android 2.3), most apps can't work.
[16:28] <gordonDrogon> old but fun: Google maps: Select Get Directions. Click on walk, select From: The Shire, To: Mordor, Get Directions...
[16:28] <RoTorIT> thrawed: where?
[16:28] <yehnan> drazyl: yes, i know.
[16:28] * FUZxxl wants to buy a http://www.pibow.com/
[16:28] <thrawed> RoTorIT: try different search terms
[16:29] <thrawed> RoTorIT: also the cases section on the forum
[16:29] <RoTorIT> k..
[16:29] <RoTorIT> TY
[16:29] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[16:29] <bubu> anyone using an awus036H rtl8187 chipset wireless adapter without issues? have installed realtek-firmware binary but still cant get my wireless up and running while using a powered hub
[16:29] * tommygu (~tommygu@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:29] * PiBot sets mode +v tommygu
[16:29] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:30] <yehnan> TheBrayn: everything is very slow, even mouse moving.
[16:31] <yehnan> Do anyone know what "binder" mean in the error message https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35616101/IMG_1192.jpg ?
[16:31] <chithead> bubu: does "ifconfig -a" show wlan0?
[16:31] <RoTorIT> thrawed: awhhh! you where right... there are others and .. and.. and.. now I have to choose.... hmpf! :p
[16:32] <bubu> yes
[16:32] <bubu> i have tried through network manage and wicd
[16:32] <bubu> I can see the adapter
[16:32] <bubu> it seems to join wireless and get an IP from DHCP
[16:32] <bubu> but craps out after a few seconds ...
[16:32] <bubu> 0 rx / 0 tx ..
[16:32] <bubu> then the interface dissapears and wont come back up
[16:33] <thrawed> bubu: maybe it's a power issue
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> I would have said you need to get a powered hub - but...
[16:33] <bubu> thats what I thought but im using a powered hub
[16:33] <bubu> same model as other people that seem to have it working
[16:34] <chithead> how is it possible to get an ip via dhcp, when rx/tx is at 0
[16:34] <bubu> no idea ...
[16:34] <bubu> i can even see it leased on my router
[16:34] <bubu> but it craps out straight after
[16:34] <chithead> are there errors printed to dmesg when that happens?
[16:34] <bubu> hmm good point, havent checked yet
[16:34] <bubu> have to wait till home
[16:35] <thrawed> I don't have any issues with rt2800 with no hub
[16:35] <bubu> hmm
[16:35] <bubu> what OS you running?
[16:35] <thrawed> raspbian
[16:35] <bubu> version?
[16:35] <chithead> you could also try newer kernel, like 3.2 from bootc or 3.3 from openwrt
[16:36] <bubu> this is using pisces
[16:37] * Timmmaaaayyy (~Timmmaaaa@cpe-74-73-185-27.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Timmmaaaayyy
[16:38] * ebarch (~ebarch@li435-232.members.linode.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:38] * ebarch (~ebarch@li435-232.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] * PiBot sets mode +v ebarch
[16:39] * wolfsoul (~wolfsoul@unaffiliated/wolfsoul) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] * PiBot sets mode +v wolfsoul
[16:39] <FUZxxl> BTW, How can I use the GPIO pins under Debian? Is there a device file?
[16:41] * rabbidrabbit (5b376c5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[16:41] * PiBot sets mode +v rabbidrabbit
[16:41] <chithead> you can find code examples on http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
[16:42] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:42] * PiBot sets mode +v Inoperable
[16:42] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:42] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[16:44] * Sakyl (~Sakyl@95-91-160-158-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:44] * PiBot sets mode +v Sakyl
[16:44] <M3nti0n> w00t. Android Jelly Bean is in the work for Raspberry Pi.
[16:44] <M3nti0n> http://pastebin.com/zit1sieh
[16:44] * Sakyl (~Sakyl@95-91-160-158-dynip.superkabel.de) has left #raspberrypi
[16:45] * cccyRegeaneAway is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[16:46] <thrawed> M3nti0n: jelly bean isn't much of a leap from ics as ics was from gingerbread, so if it runs ics then it's gonna run jb
[16:47] <M3nti0n> true
[16:47] <M3nti0n> :)
[16:48] <buZz> thrawed: well ics and hc arent that different either
[16:48] <buZz> ics was not the version after gb
[16:48] <buZz> just appeared that way to many ppl
[16:49] <TheBrayn> hardly anybody uses honeycomb
[16:49] <buZz> i used hc cause i bought a tablet with it
[16:50] * [SLB] (~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:50] * PiBot sets mode +v [SLB]
[16:50] <chithead> most of the cheap tablets on the market today were designed around hc (you can recognize them from the hardware buttons)
[16:50] <rabbidrabbit> How well can the raspberry pi run android? I'd have thought it too slow to run well.
[16:51] <buZz> my phone is practically same speed
[16:51] <TheBrayn> and why would you want to run android on the rpi?
[16:51] <buZz> 600mhz armv6
[16:51] <buZz> no clue :)
[16:51] <chithead> rabbidrabbit: they have a youtube video posted on raspberrypi.org where you can see for yourself
[16:51] <buZz> anyway, jelly bean runs like a dream on my phone
[16:51] * andypiper (~andypiper@pdpc/supporter/professional/andypiper) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:51] * PiBot sets mode +v andypiper
[16:51] <buZz> way faster then GB ever did
[16:51] <buZz> chithead: actually hc didnt have hardware buttons
[16:52] <buZz> rabbidrabbit: anyway i assume it runs fine
[16:52] * reider59 (~reider59@cpc4-warr5-0-0-cust657.1-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:52] * PiBot sets mode +v reider59
[16:52] <chithead> buZz: I have read that one still needed hardware button (like home) for hc. but ics introduced on-screen buttons
[16:53] * wolfsoul (~wolfsoul@unaffiliated/wolfsoul) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:53] <buZz> chithead: nope
[16:53] <buZz> chithead: hc had it in touchbuttons already
[16:53] <rabbidrabbit> wow. That is pretty cool
[16:53] <buZz> rabbidrabbit: what would you want to do with it?
[16:53] * gordonDrogon mutters. still no "Yodel" delivery )-:
[16:55] <hotwings> TheBrayn - running android on the rpi doesnt make sense to me either
[16:56] * Joe_KD2AKU (~Joe@ool-4a5aeec6.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:56] * PiBot sets mode +v Joe_KD2AKU
[16:56] <reider59> just done a search on yodel and one customer was told on checking that a card had been left. He said he got no card but when he walked in the garden he saw a pink bag. the driver had just chucked it in the garden.
[16:56] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:57] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos
[16:57] * rabbidrabbit (5b376c5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:59] * pretty_function (~sigBART@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:59] * PiBot sets mode +v pretty_function
[16:59] <Joe_KD2AKU> Is anyone working on a Raspberry Pi board for makers? Slimmed down, onboard WiFi and runs from battery?
[16:59] * scottman (~scott@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:59] * PiBot sets mode +v scottman
[16:59] <thrawed> Joe_KD2AKU: no
[16:59] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[17:00] <thrawed> Joe_KD2AKU: and what do you mean by slimmed down?
[17:00] <thrawed> I don't see how anyone could work on it either, I didn't think the raspberrypi was open hardware
[17:00] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[17:00] * PiBot sets mode +v paxcoder
[17:01] <Joe_KD2AKU> thrawed: No HDMI you solder on USB etc. something even smaller and thinner then it is
[17:01] * rabbidrabbit (5b376c5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[17:01] * PiBot sets mode +v rabbidrabbit
[17:01] <chithead> you mean an assembly kit? that idea was pondered but rejected
[17:01] <Joe_KD2AKU> something for the Maker/Arduno crowd ....
[17:02] <thrawed> Joe_KD2AKU: plus you wouldn't be able to ahold of the same chips in low quantities
[17:02] <rabbidrabbit> damm internet just died
[17:02] <Joe_KD2AKU> Could use the same chips just remove stuff etc.
[17:02] <thrawed> rabbidrabbit: works for me
[17:02] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:03] * JMichael|work (~JamesWhit@jmcooper.goshen.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:03] * PiBot sets mode +v JMichael|work
[17:03] <thrawed> Joe_KD2AKU: you mean rip the chips from an existing board?
[17:03] <rabbidrabbit> well it works now
[17:03] <rabbidrabbit> i briefly lost it
[17:04] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:04] * PiBot sets mode +v Cru
[17:04] <chithead> I think he means the pcb + a bag of components to solder on
[17:05] * gabriel9|work (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:06] <thrawed> chithead: iirc a special piece of equipment is needed to attach the ram
[17:06] <reider59> Read this about Yodel, Gordon....... http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2012/03/yodel.html
[17:06] <Joe_KD2AKU> thrawed: No make a say rev C board with less for people integrating it into other projects
[17:07] <thrawed> Joe_KD2AKU: I don't think the foundation wants to go in that direction, they've shown that they're much more interested in the programming education side of things
[17:08] <thrawed> reider59: you might need to say his full nick to get his attention
[17:08] * Tuxuser is now known as XeCrypt
[17:08] * super_gollum (~ich@ip-94-79-178-240.unitymediagroup.de) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[17:09] <reider59> thanks, he usually sees it and even looks back through the chat if he leaves his screen
[17:09] <Joe_KD2AKU> thrawed: Just pokeing around to see if it's been done. The idea is to make more real world things "programmable". That is not every Pi will be hooked to a HDTV
[17:09] <nid0> yodel are indeed pretty awful
[17:10] <reider59> Got 153 post about them on the other screen and it looks like 98% are bad comments
[17:10] <thrawed> are yodel the ones that outsource to chavs?
[17:10] <nid0> yeah
[17:10] <reider59> They swapped names already once, allegedly
[17:11] <thrawed> yeah I didn't realise that hdnl didn't exist anymore
[17:11] <nid0> technically twice, if you're coming from using DHL in the past
[17:12] <nid0> tbh almost any online forum/review site is only ever gonna have bad things to say about delivery firms as people dont as a rule bother about positive comments for things like that, but yodel are head and shoulders above the other firms for general terribleness in my experience
[17:13] <reider59> It,s City Transport or something I have problems with here, I dread it if they are delivering
[17:13] <reider59> * It's
[17:13] <reider59> City Link, that's the one
[17:13] <reider59> bloomin meds
[17:13] <Tu13es> bah
[17:13] <nid0> yodel < city link < parcel force/ups/interlink <<<<<<< DPD
[17:13] <nid0> imo
[17:14] <Tu13es> ordered an rpi the other day from newark because they said in stock, when i got my email confirmation it said backordered
[17:14] <drazyl> I find CityLink OK, but it also helps that their nearest depot isn't hugely inconvenient to get to
[17:14] <Tu13es> now it says 22 in stock
[17:14] <thrawed> it's better than royal mail, who'll stick the note through your door without rining
[17:14] <thrawed> *ringing
[17:15] <drazyl> nah, Royal Mail is the best of them all in general here
[17:15] <reider59> That's the one good thing about City Link, you can go the depot to collect. Though I had my scooter the last time, not got it now and it's the middle of nowhere
[17:15] <drazyl> but it helps that the local posties know the area
[17:16] <reider59> Royal Mail make me laugh, parcel clearly states "Fragile" and they drop it through the letter box
[17:16] * StMichel (mkouhia@lyta.org.aalto.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:16] * PiBot sets mode +v StMichel
[17:17] <drazyl> ours make sensible choices about leaving parcels with neighbours, and the parcel office is a 5-10 minute diversion on the way to work (and is open early enough to get to)
[17:17] <thrawed> drazyl: they've got a tickbox for that now on the sheet
[17:18] * the_real_crimper (~crimper@cpe-98-154-91-166.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:18] * PiBot sets mode +v the_real_crimper
[17:18] <drazyl> thrawed - don't need no sheets, postie will find a decent neighbour and leave it as a matter of course
[17:18] <nid0> I work from home and my office overlooks the front of my house, so tend to know pretty immediately if someone tries to bullshit me with a card without trying
[17:19] * C-M (~c_m@wikimedia/C-M) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[17:19] <reider59> my mate got a Royal Mail delivered parcel through his door for his street, his number but it should have gone to the same street and number in Ireland. It did say Ireland and it had the postcode clearly marked???
[17:19] <thrawed> drazyl: do you live in hull, norwich, bolton, wigan , edinburgh, gatwick or swansea?
[17:19] <drazyl> no
[17:19] <drazyl> should I?
[17:20] * Berglund (~Berglund@user93.82-197-241.netatonce.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:20] * PiBot sets mode +v Berglund
[17:20] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:20] <nid0> thrawed: you know that postmen have been doing that for years, trial or not, right?
[17:20] <thrawed> drazyl: these are the trial districts for royal mails designated neighbour service
[17:20] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:20] * PiBot sets mode +v mentar
[17:20] * markbook (~markllama@pool-74-104-180-140.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:20] * PiBot sets mode +v markbook
[17:20] <nid0> the trial (and now national roll-out) has just been legitimizing what theyve already been doing forever
[17:20] <drazyl> no designated anything, intelligent posties who have been doing it for at least 10 years
[17:21] <reider59> some use the gas/electric meter box so I always check there just in case
[17:21] <thrawed> Ahaha, any intelligent person wouldn't be a postie
[17:24] * rabbidrabbit (5b376c5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #raspberrypi
[17:24] * rabbidrabbit (5b376c5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[17:24] * PiBot sets mode +v rabbidrabbit
[17:26] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:27] <drazyl> thrawed maybe - but a sane person wouldn't work with computers :)
[17:28] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[17:28] * PiBot sets mode +v paxcoder
[17:28] * scottman (~scott@ has left #raspberrypi
[17:28] <paxcoder> i can use a cellphone instead of the card reader to save the os image to the card, right?
[17:29] <chithead> as long as the cell phone supports usb mass storage mode
[17:30] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
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[17:31] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:32] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[17:32] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:32] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:33] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:33] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:33] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:33] <mikma> ........................................................................................0000
[17:33] * thrawed (~t@unaffiliated/thrawed) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[17:33] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:33] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:33] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:33] * Patteh (~BOB@cpc9-hari15-2-0-cust297.20-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:33] * PiBot sets mode +v Patteh
[17:34] <paxcoder> chithead: if it mounts as a usb stick would, that means it definitely supports it, right?
[17:34] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:34] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:34] <chithead> paxcoder: then you can use it like a normal usb sd card reader
[17:34] <paxcoder> sweet, thanks
[17:34] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:34] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:35] <gordonDrogon> hi -yea, I know yodel have a bad. reputation, but I had no choice in the matter...
[17:35] <gordonDrogon> at least the tracking site says it's still out for delivery, so who knows. it's supposed to be here before 5pm.
[17:35] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:35] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:35] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:35] * PiBot sets mode +v mythos
[17:36] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:36] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:36] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:36] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:36] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:37] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:37] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:37] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:37] <gordonDrogon> Hm. trying to fiddle with the pad driver controls and now wondering if I have the right runes...
[17:37] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:37] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:37] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:38] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:38] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:38] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:38] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:38] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:38] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:38] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:38] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:38] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:38] * mcscruff (~mcscruff@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:38] * PiBot sets mode +v mcscruff
[17:39] <mcscruff> is PiBot running on a pi?
[17:39] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:39] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:39] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:39] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:39] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:40] * prpplague (~danders@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] * PiBot sets mode +v prpplague
[17:40] <paxcoder> if i can get the class 10 sd card for the same money as a class 4, which one should i get?
[17:40] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:41] <reider59> the class 6 ;-)
[17:41] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:41] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:41] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:41] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:41] <paxcoder> reider59: there's none in the stores. they have everything online, but i don't care to wait that long.
[17:42] <reider59> ;-)
[17:42] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:42] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:42] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:42] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDeBonBon
[17:42] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:42] <paxcoder> the also have only the most expensive stuff. what's up with that i do not know.
[17:42] <ziltro2> expensive = better.
[17:43] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:43] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:43] <paxcoder> reider59: but seriously, is class 4 really prefered to class 10? will 10 be slower than 4?
[17:43] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:43] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:43] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:43] * OmNomDeBonBon (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:43] <reider59> If they're both on the list of approved cards then it's just down to personal choice, unless people are still having problems with the class 10 speeds and/or usage
[17:43] * ReggieUK sets mode +b OmNomDeBonBon!*mNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com
[17:44] <mikey_w> I hae had better results with class 4.
[17:44] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:44] <ReggieUK> if anyone gets a message from OmNomDeBonBon tell him to come and see me or matt or ukscone when he's sorted his host out
[17:44] <reider59> I use class 4 no problem, 2 different cards
[17:44] * fredreichbier (~fred@unaffiliated/fredreichbier) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:44] * PiBot sets mode +v fredreichbier
[17:44] <paxcoder> mikey_w: thanks.
[17:44] <ziltro2> I think I read there were problems with class 10, which have been fixed in a firmware update?
[17:44] <mikey_w> Looking forward to android ICS.
[17:45] <hotwings> yuk, i wouldnt bother with class 4 at all
[17:45] <reider59> I think someone claims to have done ICS
[17:45] <ziltro2> Also I read that class 10 is faster for sequential writes, but perhaps slower for random writes, or not faster. I'm not sure how that can be true.
[17:45] <mikey_w> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/08/01/1351220/android-4-coming-to-the-raspberry-pi?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
[17:45] <sam> wow that's going to be extra sluggish
[17:46] <ziltro2> Now with Extra Slugs???
[17:46] * DexterLB (~angel@90-154-136-42.btc-net.bg) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:46] * the_real_crimper (~crimper@cpe-98-154-91-166.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:46] <paxcoder> darnit. i'm going to buy a crappy card.
[17:48] <ziltro2> Are you planning on complaining about the performance later?
[17:48] <reider59> lol I thought that video said "Finding Nemus" not Nemo
[17:49] <paxcoder> ziltro2: only if my cli apps drag.
[17:49] <paxcoder> *daemons as well etc
[17:50] <hotwings> if your cli app is just ''while true; do echo ":)"; done'', then youll be fine
[17:50] <mcscruff> what would i need to install within raspian to get my ps3 controller working (wired)
[17:50] <mcscruff> i would like to use it for retroarch
[17:50] * yaswanth (~yravella@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:50] * PiBot sets mode +v yaswanth
[17:51] <TheBrayn> does the kernel have the playstation module?
[17:51] <TheBrayn> and is it loaded?
[17:52] <mcscruff> it should be normal usb gamepad
[17:52] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:52] * PiBot sets mode +v Inoperable
[17:52] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:53] <ziltro2> hmm, the joystick connector does seem to have disappeared from counters, I wonder how they work these days.
[17:53] <TheBrayn> usb
[17:53] <mcscruff> i know on my ubuntu i needed to install an xserver-joypad (well a similar command)
[17:54] <ziltro2> Ah, is there some kind of standard for them?
[17:54] <TheBrayn> you might need something like qjoypad to map the controller input to keys
[17:54] <paxcoder> well, here i go... :-/
[17:54] <mcscruff> that might be better way to do it (then i can use it for xbmc to)
[17:54] * sutterCane (~Cane@f054009218.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:55] <paxcoder> i'm almost gone...
[17:55] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[17:57] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:57] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDePlume
[17:57] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:57] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:57] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDePlume
[17:57] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:57] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:57] * PiBot sets mode +v OmNomDePlume
[17:58] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[17:58] <gordonDrogon> Hm. well doesn't look like I can change the pad driver values in the Pi's GPIO.
[17:58] * TheBrayn is now known as KhalDrogen
[17:59] * cave (~cave@91-115-164-85.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:59] * PiBot sets mode +v cave
[17:59] * KhalDrogen is now known as TheBrayn
[17:59] * scriptx (~ryan@unaffiliated/ryann) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:59] * PiBot sets mode +v scriptx
[17:59] * scriptx waves
[18:01] <scriptx> i want one!
[18:02] <gordonDrogon> go buy one then..
[18:02] <gordonDrogon> Farnell had them for next day deliver this morning ...
[18:02] <sam> I couldn't find conclusive information about this... does the RPi hardware support slave mode?
[18:02] <sam> USB slave mode
[18:03] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:03] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[18:03] <sam> ah, model A only it seems
[18:03] <scriptx> thanks gordonDrogon
[18:04] <hotwings> has rpif posted pics of what the "official" case looks like?
[18:04] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:05] * bytesoup (~bytesoup@5ac2a7e9.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:05] * PiBot sets mode +v bytesoup
[18:05] * Killerkid_ (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:05] * PiBot sets mode +v Killerkid_
[18:06] * WillDuckworth (c2498332@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:07] * Killerkid (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:08] <scriptx> yikes, farnell export site says 3 weeks
[18:08] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:09] * bytesoup (~bytesoup@5ac2a7e9.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[18:11] <ziltro2> It was 5 weeks, so it is getting better.
[18:11] * shellac (~pldms@cpc6-aztw25-2-0-cust83.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[18:11] * ceti331_ (~ceti331_@host86-140-182-168.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:11] * PiBot sets mode +v ceti331_
[18:11] <ziltro2> Hopefully RS is getting there, I haven't got my order from them yet.
[18:12] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[18:12] <hotwings> i wonder what the real sales numbers are so far
[18:12] <ziltro2> Ooh, 17 weeks, RS is getting longer.
[18:14] <hotwings> 17?
[18:14] <hotwings> thats ridiculous
[18:14] * pozer (~dave@2607:f380:8a4:8256:250:56ff:fe80:7d6) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[18:14] <ziltro2> Yeah. That's a fair while.
[18:14] <ziltro2> I suspect RS is getting all the multiple orders, and Farnell all the single ones.
[18:15] <TheBrayn> all the single orders *sing*
[18:16] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-90-126.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[18:16] * Gadget-Mac_ (~swp@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac_
[18:16] <Mco> Does Farnell even have multiple orders for consumers? Qty 1 was fixed on their order form.
[18:17] <ziltro2> I believe you can place as many single orders as you want.
[18:17] <hotwings> do they at least group them together so youre not paying shipping on every single one?
[18:17] <Mco> Yes, but then you pay shipping multiple times
[18:18] <ziltro2> Hence RS getting multiple orders.
[18:18] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[18:18] * Gadget-Mac_ is now known as Gadget-Mac
[18:19] <hotwings> well anyways, a 17 week lead time is just as bad at the failed launch
[18:20] * Kanerix (~kanerix@reverse.control4.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:20] * PiBot sets mode +v Kanerix
[18:20] <ReggieUK> it's unfortunate but they're a victim of their own success
[18:20] * JMichael|work (~JamesWhit@jmcooper.goshen.edu) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[18:20] <nid0> you say "failed launch", I say "i've had my 2 pis for months"
[18:20] <ReggieUK> no use complaining about 'fail'
[18:20] <ReggieUK> they clearly haven't failed at all
[18:21] <chithead> they have failed to estimate demand correctly. and they have refused assistance from those who saw it coming
[18:21] <ReggieUK> it wasn't the best launch but when you consider they had 10,000
[18:21] * OmNomDePlume (OmNomDeBon@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[18:21] * scrts (~quassel@unaffiliated/scrts) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:21] * PiBot sets mode +v scrts
[18:21] <chithead> should have put the 10000 on ebay or amazon, the two internet sites that could have handled the load
[18:21] * bytesoup (~bytesoup@5ac2a7e9.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:21] * PiBot sets mode +v bytesoup
[18:22] <hotwings> oh theres no question the launch was a disaster. everybody has conceded that already. but to _still_ have 4+ month lead time? ...........wow, and i dont mean that in a good way
[18:22] <ReggieUK> they didn't underestimate it as such, they only ever expected to sell 10,000 initially and neither ebay or amazon could manufacture more boards, so pointless putting them on there
[18:22] <chithead> it would have been fair to put them there, instead the websites of rs and farnell collapsed and made it a lottery of who could order
[18:22] <bytesoup> i see people selling Rpis on ebay for nearly ??50
[18:23] <ziltro2> A lot of people might have waited until the "register your interest" was over?
[18:23] <ReggieUK> just because they haven't met your immediate expectations, they have fullfilled a huge amount of orders
[18:23] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:23] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:23] * PiBot sets mode +v Inoperable
[18:23] <chithead> I don't dispute that, but your position in the queue was pure luck and highly unfair
[18:23] <ReggieUK> They had no obligation to 'be fair' they just had to release 10,000, as it turned out they weren't ready but they recognised the demand and asked farnell/rs to make more
[18:23] <ziltro2> I wonder how much they could have made selling 10,000 on eBay auctions.
[18:23] <hotwings> thats what i was interested in finding out.. what the real sales figures are.
[18:24] <Kanerix> Having far more demand than supply is not a failure. It's a great boon to your business to not have to worry about not having customers. Investors love that sort of thing...
[18:24] <bytesoup> its a shame folks are taking to ebay, whats the wait time nowdays?
[18:24] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac
[18:24] <ReggieUK> they don't have investors
[18:24] <ziltro2> bytesoup: Farnell say 3 weeks.
[18:24] <Kanerix> Doesn't make my point any less valid
[18:24] <ReggieUK> they were purely using their own money to front for the 10,000 boards
[18:24] <chithead> someone must have given them the money to make the inital 10k
[18:24] <ziltro2> RS 17 weeks.
[18:25] <hotwings> Kanerix - having far more demand that supply can certainly harm business in a major way.. but this isnt #business101
[18:25] <ziltro2> Do you think they've made the money back yet? :)
[18:25] <hotwings> *than
[18:25] <ReggieUK> they did this in their spare time, put their own money into, were a handful of people
[18:25] * Phosphate- (~james@c-71-224-156-93.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:25] * PiBot sets mode +v Phosphate-
[18:25] <bytesoup> 3 weeks is pretty good, id be happy to wait for that
[18:25] * Phosphate (~james@c-71-224-156-93.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:26] <ziltro2> I can't remember what the wait time was supposed t be when I ordered, but I did it the day tehy stopped the 'register your interest' thing adn it arrived in less than 2 weeks.
[18:26] <chithead> people offered help, were turned down
[18:26] <drazyl> yeah, putting them on ebay so a few people could buy them for a high price would be SO much better than as it was where a few people could buy them at the intended price
[18:26] <chithead> to be fair, rs and farnell apparently reassured the rpi foundation that their websites were able to handle the load, and they fell for it
[18:27] <hotwings> i ordered on march 1. it showed up towards the end of june
[18:27] <bytesoup> isnt the whole point of the pi to get kids interested though?
[18:27] <chithead> ebay has this nice "buy it now" thing, totally fair and everybody pays the set price
[18:27] <hotwings> the point of rpi is to provide a cheap usable platform.. whether people use it to learn perl scripting or blink led's is up to them
[18:28] <bytesoup> we do have a gap in schools now, kids just taught to "use" a pc, only scraping the surface
[18:28] <Kanerix> or build mobile robotics platforms... >_>
[18:28] <ziltro2> I'm planning on using mine for crime, and to take over the world. Mwahahaha...
[18:28] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[18:28] <Kanerix> Can we use this IRC log as an admission of guilt in a court of law?
[18:28] <Kanerix> <_<
[18:28] <hotwings> programming has never been regular curriculum
[18:29] * IT_Sean defeats ziltro2 by stepping on his raspberrypi
[18:29] <bytesoup> lol @ ziltro2
[18:29] <ziltro2> It won't matter, I'll eat the courts with my massive robots
[18:29] <Kanerix> IT_Sean, that's cruel and unusual punishment
[18:29] <ziltro2> awh.
[18:29] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:29] <grindking> http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/01/raspberry-pi-android-ice-cream-sandwich/
[18:29] <grindking> wow that's great
[18:29] <hotwings> why?
[18:29] * Inoperable (~USER_0@89-67-87-100.dynamic.chello.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:29] <chithead> that's yesterday's news, people are already working on jb
[18:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Inoperable
[18:29] <grindking> more functionality than regular xbmc hotwings
[18:29] <ziltro2> Raspberry ice-cream?
[18:30] <Kanerix> mmm
[18:30] <scriptx> sweet. well, on back order w/alliedelec
[18:30] <grindking> i have interest in creating some stupid robot that's controlled with an rpi, it's mainly for an htpc type setup
[18:30] <Kanerix> that's going to make me hungry
[18:30] <grindking> er i have no interest
[18:30] <Kanerix> I have an interest =p
[18:30] <scriptx> suppose i can already get a head start on customizing the os
[18:30] <scriptx> looks like there's a debian build already someplace
[18:30] <bytesoup> i dont mean programming but more "getting under the hood" for the kids... you'd think with more technloguy around nowdays there would be more focus in schools
[18:31] <hotwings> grindking - more functionality in what way?
[18:31] <Kanerix> bytesoup, I taught my 8th grade science class for 2 days when it came to electronics because my teacher didn't have a clue
[18:31] <Kanerix> so she let me teach it
[18:31] <bytesoup> Kanerix: exactly my point
[18:31] <grindking> hotwings: um, you aren't stuck in xbmc?
[18:31] <bytesoup> well done to you
[18:31] <Kanerix> yep
[18:31] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:31] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac
[18:32] <Kanerix> I'm actually impressed that she gave me the opportunity
[18:32] <bytesoup> everyone is too busy just "using
[18:32] <hotwings> grindking - i dont use xbmc. but more functionality in what way?
[18:32] <Kanerix> I'm not normal though
[18:32] <bytesoup> lol
[18:32] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:32] * PiBot sets mode +v gordonDrogon
[18:32] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[18:32] * bytesoup (~bytesoup@5ac2a7e9.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[18:32] * gordonDrogon mutters.
[18:32] <grindking> with raspbmc you are stuck in xbmc, with ics you have the entire play store app catalog, emulators, whatever you want
[18:32] <Kanerix> xbmc on the pi is amazing for x264
[18:32] <gordonDrogon> tidying up my desk and I power cycled my PC.
[18:32] <reider59> parcel not here?
[18:33] <Kanerix> does better than my core i7 -_-
[18:33] <gordonDrogon> parcel just arrived.
[18:33] <reider59> woo hoo, nice one
[18:33] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:33] * PiBot sets mode +v wiiguy
[18:33] <Kanerix> of course I'm using an 11GB x26 rip with full DTS
[18:33] <nid0> well probably more functionality in that one's just a piece of media software and the other's an entire os - why would you compare the two?
[18:33] <Kanerix> *x264
[18:33] <gordonDrogon> now to see if it works with a Pi...
[18:33] <ziltro2> I must try making a 'media centre' one of these days.
[18:33] <Kanerix> nid0, openelec ftw
[18:33] <Kanerix> openelec is an amazing xbmc implementation
[18:34] <grindking> nid0: don't ask me, he's the one that asked
[18:34] <Kanerix> for the pi
[18:34] <ziltro2> Most of my media is MPEG2 or VC-1 though.
[18:34] <grindking> kanerix: hrm, saving private ryan chops over smb with dts
[18:34] <nid0> well, you're the one that mentioned ics is better because its "more functionality than xbmc"
[18:34] <grindking> even running raspbian with darkbasic
[18:34] <grindking> with the optimizations
[18:34] <grindking> he asked initially
[18:34] <grindking> scroll up further
[18:34] <grindking> jesus what's wrong with people in here
[18:35] <IT_Sean> ...
[18:35] <grindking> 11:28AM <hotwings> why?
[18:35] <hotwings> grindking - raspbmc and xbmc arent the same thing
[18:35] <grindking> i know they aren't lol
[18:35] * DexterLB (~angel@77-85-26-137.btc-net.bg) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:35] * PiBot sets mode +v DexterLB
[18:36] <hotwings> why did you say this then: [09:27:45] <grindking> more functionality than regular xbmc hotwings
[18:36] <grindking> because you asked lol
[18:36] <grindking> it's your fault
[18:36] <ziltro2> That's good to hear.
[18:36] <ziltro2> It is usually my faunt.
[18:36] <grindking> lol
[18:36] <ziltro2> Also I can spell.
[18:36] <grindking> it's normally my fault too
[18:36] <reider59> I use a smell checker
[18:36] * ceti331_ (~ceti331_@host86-140-182-168.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[18:36] <Kanerix> silly faunt
[18:37] <[SLB]> lol
[18:37] <IT_Sean> A smell checker?
[18:37] <hotwings> youre not making any sense.. xbmc is just an app. running android on an rpi, running xbmc gives you no more functionality than running debian on an rpi, running xbmc
[18:37] <nid0> he asked whats great about the ics news, you're the only one who brought xbmc up as a comparison :s
[18:37] <grindking> you asked, why, you shouldn't have asked why.
[18:37] <grindking> bottom line
[18:37] * Gadget-Mac_ (~swp@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac_
[18:37] <grindking> question your own reasons
[18:37] <reider59> it checks your spelling and even with the wrong words flags it as correct ;-) a smell checker
[18:37] <ziltro2> Asking why is what seperates us from the animals... Alledgedly.
[18:38] <grindking> you didn't know ics had more functionality than xbmc? wow.
[18:38] <hotwings> have you been drinking? nothing youre saying even makes any sense
[18:38] <grindking> xbmc was already ported to android, it offer more functionality than regular xbmc. that's all i asid
[18:38] * yaswanth (~yravella@ Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[18:38] <grindking> if you have a problem with it, get over it
[18:38] <ziltro2> I have a spelling chequer, it came with my pea see...
[18:39] <hotwings> ics and xbmc is apples & oranges
[18:39] <grindking> why
[18:39] <Kanerix> mmm apples
[18:39] <ziltro2> Apples make good juice
[18:39] <grindking> hell yah
[18:39] <Kanerix> Have you ever had apple juice from a granny smith apple?
[18:39] <Kanerix> Bloody amazing
[18:40] <hotwings> grindking - http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Difference_between_application_program_and_a_operating_system
[18:40] * Gadget-Mac__ (~swp@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:40] <hotwings> rofl
[18:40] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac__
[18:40] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:40] * Gadget-Mac__ is now known as Gadget-Mac
[18:41] * RITRedbeard (~redbeard@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:41] * Gadget-Mac_ (~swp@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:42] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-90-126.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[18:43] <grindking> why
[18:43] <grindking> i had to turn down my knowledge volume knob to try to understand you
[18:43] <hotwings> coming from a guy who doesnt know the difference between an os and an app, ...............
[18:43] <nid0> crank it back up a few hundred % and you'll probably be where we all are trying to figure you out
[18:44] <gordonDrogon> Hmph. Welcome to the world of rubbish TVs used as HDMI monitors. Overscan on = black borders, overscan off = stuff lost off-screen. muppetry.
[18:44] <grindking> if you read the buffer you'd see i was only using the rpi for xbmc functionality nid0
[18:44] <grindking> that's why i brought it up
[18:44] <grindking> no one apparently reads anymore and just jumps right in
[18:44] <gordonDrogon> and the TV is buzzing. that's going to annoy me before I can cut the speakers and install a switch..
[18:45] <ziltro2> TVs all used to buzz.
[18:45] <ziltro2> Well, whistle.
[18:45] <SwK> Flyback transformer whine
[18:45] <nid0> er, i've got the buffer back several days and the first thing you said was posting the engadget link that started all this.
[18:45] <hotwings> grindking - you didnt say anything about only using rpi for xbmc
[18:45] <IT_Sean> Okay. Gentlemen. Let's stop the appendage measuring and name allergy.
[18:46] <IT_Sean> *namecallery
[18:46] <ziltro2> Awh but I just got my tape measure out :(
[18:46] <IT_Sean> Too bad.
[18:46] <grindking> <grindking> i have interest in creating some stupid robot that's controlled with an rpi, it's mainly for an htpc type setup
[18:46] <ziltro2> It is measuresd in microfurlongs.
[18:46] <grindking> i meant no interest :D
[18:46] <grindking> i didn't state xbmc specifically though
[18:47] <hotwings> yet you said this:
[18:47] <hotwings> [09:42:02] <grindking> if you read the buffer you'd see i was only using the rpi for xbmc functionality nid0
[18:47] <hotwings> i guess on top of expecting everything to read the entire scrollback buffer, you expect us to read your mind as well.
[18:47] <hotwings> ??_??
[18:47] <grindking> yet i mentioned xbmc countless times and that i was only interested in htpc setup
[18:47] <reider59> let it go guys, come on, don't get booted over it.
[18:47] <grindking> and gee, only xbmc that i know of is ported to raspberry
[18:47] <grindking> how hard is this to grasp
[18:47] <grindking> good thing you weren't ever working for nasa
[18:48] <grindking> im done reider59
[18:48] <grindking> i'm already laughing at this log pasted into another chan/network
[18:48] <hotwings> the only time i said anythign about xbmc was in response to you going on about it.
[18:49] <hotwings> just try to get your story straight next time ok? thats all we ask
[18:49] <grindking> last word
[18:50] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[18:50] * grindking was kicked from #raspberrypi by IT_Sean
[18:51] <gordonDrogon> anyone knows where the full list of hdmi modes are? I'm searching the wiki, but not finding them. I only seen to be getting 1184x624... I want my720p!
[18:51] * IT_Sean gives gordonDrogon 720 peas
[18:51] <hotwings> xrander should give you that
[18:52] <hotwings> peas yuk! :]
[18:52] <IT_Sean> Could be worse.
[18:52] * TimRiker (TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:52] * PiBot sets mode +v TimRiker
[18:52] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@host86-179-135-252.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:52] * grindking (~grind@insomnia.chrisp.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:52] * PiBot sets mode +v grindking
[18:53] <grindking> http://pastie.org/4372520
[18:53] <ziltro2> 1280??720p?
[18:53] <TimRiker> hmm. how do I stop openbox/x from screen blanking in the wheezy image?
[18:54] <gordonDrogon> ziltro2, yes, thats about what I want to get. tvservice doesn't give me that though. I'll fiddle for a bit.
[18:54] <reider59> while Rome burns?
[18:54] <gordonDrogon> possibly...
[18:54] <chithead> TimRiker: try xset dpms off
[18:55] <hotwings> xorg.conf, monitor section: Option "DPMS" "false"
[18:55] <TimRiker> chithead, yeah, I mean so it boots that way.
[18:55] <hotwings> and, serverlayout section: Option "BlankTime" "0"
[18:55] <hotwings> for a 2nd condom
[18:55] <chithead> if that turns out to work you can make the setting permanent with what hotwings said
[18:56] <gordonDrogon> Hm. Pi is driving it in 1280x720, but it's stealing some of the screen for overscan.
[18:56] <gordonDrogon> state: HPD high|HDMI mode|HDCP off|composite off (0x12001a), 1280x720 @ 60Hz, progressive
[18:56] <ziltro2> Maybe TVs are rubbish?
[18:56] <ziltro2> I've never actually bought one.
[18:56] <ziltro2> Which is odd.
[18:56] <hotwings> gordonDrogon - there are also overscan options in xorg.conf as well
[18:57] <gordonDrogon> hotwings, not using X....
[18:57] <hotwings> sorry, meant TimRiker
[18:57] * yehnan (yehnan@114-24-232-181.dynamic.hinet.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:58] <TimRiker> gordonDrogon, see disable_overscan in /boot/config.txt ?
[19:01] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:01] * PiBot sets mode +v Behold
[19:01] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: IT_Sean)
[19:01] <gordonDrogon> TimRiker, hi, yea, been through all that before - this is a new TV/Monitor, just fiddling to get it right. Seems to work now if I manually set the framebuffer_width and height.
[19:02] * TimRiker nods
[19:02] * lucian (~lucian@host-23-244-171-31.cloudsigma.com) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[19:02] <ziltro2> Hmm, If the RPi could do MPEG2 playback then I wonder if it would be worth getting a TV at all.
[19:02] <gordonDrogon> yes, I think TVs are rubbish - trying to emulate olde world CRTs with overscan, etc. which is just nuts with a digital processor/display.
[19:02] <ziltro2> Assuming DVB-S2/DVB-T2 USB devices work with it.
[19:03] <hotwings> i have a 60" and 55" tv here, which i think are great. definitely not rubbish
[19:04] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:04] <gordonDrogon> rubbish in that they emulate the old CRTs rather than do it properly...
[19:04] <gordonDrogon> I'm sure they're fab. bigTVs ...
[19:05] * lucian (~lucian@host-23-244-171-31.cloudsigma.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:05] * PiBot sets mode +v lucian
[19:05] <gordonDrogon> however I have to say that for what it cost, this little 16" TV is actually OK. It has all inputs (as in composit + audio, scart, 2 x hdmi and VGA) and a USB socket, although I've yet to find out what that's for - although the setup screen did mention a software upgrade via USB .. amazing. since when did TVs have software, let along software that could be upgraded!
[19:06] <TimRiker> xset s 0 0 ; xset dpms 0 0 0
[19:06] <gordonDrogon> it's even got YUV video input too. (why?) but ...
[19:06] * ceti331_ (~ceti331_@host109-153-192-238.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:06] * PiBot sets mode +v ceti331_
[19:07] <hotwings> i couldnt stand watching tv on a 16" personally
[19:08] <hotwings> of even computering on one for that matter :)
[19:08] * straterra (straterra@fuhell.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:08] * PiBot sets mode +v straterra
[19:08] <gordonDrogon> depends how close you are - I watched the olympic ceremony on one and it was fine, but we were quite close.
[19:08] <gordonDrogon> and this is for Pi's not to watch Tv on anyway.
[19:09] <straterra> I just ordered my first Raspberry Pi (which is back ordered), but I'm trying to plan some stuff out before I get it.. From what I read, the kernel that comes with Debian for the Pi lacks i2c support..is this true?
[19:09] <TimRiker> /etc/kbd/config BLANK_TIME might be what I'm after.
[19:10] <gordonDrogon> straterra, i2c and spi are both there.
[19:10] <straterra> Perfect.
[19:10] <gordonDrogon> straterra, at least they are in the raspbian kernel AIUI. so install Debian Raspbian and not the original debian.
[19:10] * tcial (~tcial@ Quit (Quit: tcial)
[19:10] <straterra> Right
[19:14] * spirit45 (~spirit45@mail.trix2voip.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:14] * PiBot sets mode +v spirit45
[19:16] * ceti331_ (~ceti331_@host109-153-192-238.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[19:16] * spirit45 (~spirit45@mail.trix2voip.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[19:18] * PiBot sets mode +v somedude
[19:18] * somedude (6c230e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #raspberrypi
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[19:20] * PiBot sets mode +v inane
[19:26] * rabbidrabbit (5b376c5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #raspberrypi
[19:28] <gordonDrogon> so.. according to the manual, the TV has a native resolution of 1366x768. I dial that into config.txt and it's almost there. still a black border. bonkers, eh?
[19:28] <chithead> maybe the tv is configured incorrectly
[19:28] <gordonDrogon> now I can understand why so many people get frustrated with the HDMI stuff on TVs...
[19:29] <gordonDrogon> I've been through the TVs own menus - zoom, auto, 16:9, etc. they're not really helping.
[19:30] <nid0> sadly I cant offer much help, I just plug the pi into either of my tvs or monitors and it just works :s
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> yea, it just worked when I plugged it into the DVI convertor on my desktop moitor too.
[19:31] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:31] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[19:32] <gordonDrogon> the trick will be to get it to display exactly 1136x768 pixels - which hopefully will match the physical pixels on the display rather than have the TV interpolate the pixels to the display (I guess)
[19:33] * Chetic (~Chetic@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[19:34] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[19:34] <ziltro2> Would be nice if TVs all used 1920??1080.
[19:35] * klm[_] (~null@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:35] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[19:35] <nid0> would be much nicer still if we could get away from such appaulingly awful low res that cheapo crt's a decade ago could beat, and start using something higher res.
[19:36] <ziltro2> Well that too.
[19:36] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-90-126.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[19:37] <ziltro2> At least 1920??1080 then. :)
[19:37] <Kanerix> gordonDrogon, it's called "overscan"
[19:37] * Killerkid1 (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:37] * PiBot sets mode +v Killerkid1
[19:37] <chithead> nid0: people tried it, e.g. with the ibm t221. but it was commercially not successful
[19:38] <Kanerix> nid0, the funny thing is, the problem comes down to digital bandwidth
[19:38] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
[19:38] * Killerkid_ (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:38] <nid0> its "commercially not successful" because the flat panel industry has become horribly lethargic, any anything higher res is a one-off and so costs a fortune, so naturally no-one buys.
[19:39] <gordonDrogon> it's a bit bizarre though - I can get a 1080p PC montor for under 100 quid..
[19:39] <gordonDrogon> the effort to slap a tuner onto that must be minimal..
[19:39] * Chetic (~Chetic@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Chetic
[19:39] <chithead> high-dpi displays are also hampered by the fact that windows doesn't look so great on them
[19:40] <gordonDrogon> that's not our fault, but I guess it has an impact..
[19:40] <MasterGeek> tv is a social tool used by your masters to git you talking shit about tv
[19:40] <ziltro2> What does windows look good on? ;)
[19:40] <[SLB]> gordonDrogon, so you'd turn off overscan and set the framebuffer to 1136x768?
[19:40] <chithead> windows looks best on 80dpi 1366x768 :p
[19:40] <gordonDrogon> [SLB], I've done that - black borders.
[19:41] <MasterGeek> windos look best as a logo on a shirt , for anything else it must be linux
[19:41] <gordonDrogon> I'm slowly increasing overscan_left, etc. to eliminate them.
[19:41] <gordonDrogon> there just doesn't seem to be an easy way.
[19:42] <gordonDrogon> I've written a little basic program to draw a rectangle at full size to help :)
[19:42] <[SLB]> i guess you have to try overscan_(left,right,top,bottom) to either positive and negative values, that should eventually reach a solution, hopefully
[19:42] <[SLB]> yeap :)
[19:42] * charolastra (~quassel@178-190-79-111.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:42] * PiBot sets mode +v charolastra
[19:43] <MasterGeek> overscan_top=-27
[19:43] <MasterGeek> overscan_left=0
[19:43] <MasterGeek> overscan_right=0
[19:43] <MasterGeek> overscan_bottom=-15
[19:43] <MasterGeek> ^^^^^^^^^ should do it
[19:43] <[SLB]> my tv just checked as resolution of 1360*768, it fit perfectly simply turning overscan off, but in case, i was gonna try that too
[19:43] * Quietlyawesome94 (~chatzilla@adsl-074-184-089-183.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Quietlyawesome94
[19:43] <Kanerix> MasterGeek, ah, I didn't know you could do that. Thanks for the info
[19:44] <MasterGeek> but dont disable_overscan=1
[19:44] <MasterGeek> make #disable_overscan=1
[19:44] <MasterGeek> worked for me same rez
[19:44] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[19:45] <charolastra> hi, i was wonderin if the reportet latency issues with webcams are related to my latency issues with wlan (ping times of seconds). i checked the voltages and well within bounds
[19:45] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:45] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[19:45] <Kanerix> Try a different wireless channel?
[19:46] <Kanerix> I'm in a hellish wifi environment here with a great deal of noise on every channel, and I see that frequently
[19:46] <MasterGeek> use a wifi scanner and fing the least active one
[19:46] * rvl (john.doe@d54C2B7B3.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] * PiBot sets mode +v rvl
[19:46] <charolastra> other devices on my wifi network work fine
[19:46] <MasterGeek> find/
[19:47] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:47] * PiBot sets mode +v kkimlabs
[19:47] * pretty_function (~sigBART@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:48] <[SLB]> is it always safe to run rpi-update or it may lead to a buggier update?
[19:48] <mikma> always safe, may lead.
[19:48] <MasterGeek> its called wifi he he he he he he he he hell for a a a a a a a a reason n n n n n n n
[19:48] <[SLB]> hm the two things don't sound to get well along
[19:49] <mikma> don't worry, you can pop up the sd-card in another machine and replace the boot files
[19:49] * Kingpin13 (~Kingpin13@Wikipedia/Kingpin13) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[19:49] <[SLB]> ah okai so that only plays with the boot files?
[19:49] <charolastra> wifi is fine, ping of 5ms to an ARMv5 device on the same network; 3733 to the pi with 50% package loss
[19:49] <mikma> there ain't much to play around with raspi anyway :)
[19:50] <gordonDrogon> get devices that will work on channel 14... no-one apart from Japan uses that (I think)
[19:50] <MasterGeek> only 50 % ?
[19:51] <charolastra> are you joking?
[19:51] <MasterGeek> yer, its english sarcasm. My Bad. srr
[19:53] * DexterLB (~angel@77-85-26-137.btc-net.bg) Quit (Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish)
[19:53] * Gabrialdestruir (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[19:54] * PiBot sets mode +v inane
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[19:54] * PiBot sets mode +v DexterLB
[19:55] <charolastra> the ping delay rises and falls ln a wavelike motion, very funny
[19:55] <trijntje> thats interesting
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> Hehe.. I've now discovered that a vertical line drawn right at the very edge of the screen shows that the plastic bezel is ever so slightly warped...
[19:55] <MasterGeek> But seriously, even if your 5ms ping time, that dosnt stop the clatter of two stations bashing it out for bandwidth on a given channel. If you scant all of the channels to see which one, have the least activity , and forc your AP and card onto that channel and retry
[19:55] <Mazon> lots of people seem to have issues with "smsc95xx 1-1.1:1.0: eth0: kevent 2 may have been dropped" - https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/9 - no one knows why it happens and how to fix it ?
[19:56] <chithead> Mazon: two workarounds exist
[19:56] <trijntje> charolastra: if your lucky, your modem/router might be able to tell you which channels are in use. I know mine can show a graph, very usefull
[19:56] <trijntje> (in use by other people around you that is)
[19:56] <Mazon> no, according to https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/9 the workarounds dont work
[19:56] <Mazon> they just lengthen the time between when it happens
[19:57] <charolastra> trust me, the wifi is not the issue; it's on the RPi side
[19:57] <gordonDrogon> a-ha. just found out the magic in the Pi's pad drivers...
[19:57] <MasterGeek> if you have a smatr phone, i think wireshark, or like will help
[19:57] <MasterGeek> smart
[19:57] <gordonDrogon> they're not current limiters at all.
[19:57] <MasterGeek> ?
[19:58] * jprvita|afk is now known as jprvita
[19:58] <charolastra> also i have 2 wifi dongles which work fine on a similiar ARMv5 device while on the Pi one fails to aquire an IP over DHCP and the other has this latency thing
[19:58] <gordonDrogon> they're pad drivers, so you just end up paralleling up drivers to each pin.
[20:03] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccyRegeaneAway
[20:04] * UnderSampled (~UnderSamp@cpe-174-097-224-178.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] * PiBot sets mode +v UnderSampled
[20:07] * tekniq (~quassel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:07] * PiBot sets mode +v tekniq
[20:11] <[SkG]> Any way to know core temperature?
[20:11] <gordonDrogon> stick your thumb on it..
[20:11] <[SkG]> then I can say... its too hot :)
[20:11] <gordonDrogon> if you can keep your thumb on it for more than a second it's fine.
[20:12] * paxcoder (~cyberpunk@unaffiliated/paxcoder) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:12] * PiBot sets mode +v paxcoder
[20:12] <[SkG]> then... it's a little bit hot xD
[20:12] <gordonDrogon> it's good to 70C.
[20:12] * tekniq (~quassel@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:13] * jolo2 (~jolo2@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] * PiBot sets mode +v jolo2
[20:13] <techsurvivor> but it immediately catches on fire at 71C
[20:14] <[SkG]> I think that I'm going to add a temp sensor via gpio
[20:14] <[SkG]> should be easy
[20:14] <paxcoder> i went with class 10 sd card after all. I'm now copying the OS .img onto the card, but it's only going at a speed of 285 kB/s o.O
[20:14] <[SkG]> at least with arduino is easy
[20:15] <paxcoder> that's low isn't it? probably because i'm using a phone instead of a card reader?
[20:15] <techsurvivor> my class 10 writes at 10-11MBps
[20:16] <techsurvivor> according to win32imager
[20:16] <techsurvivor> using a targus card peripheral
[20:16] <gordonDrogon> [SkG], http://unicorn.drogon.net/gertfan.jpg that's an LM35 temp sensor going into the ATmega - the Pi reads it and speeds up the fan ...
[20:17] <techsurvivor> anyone put a heatsink on their rpi?
[20:17] <gordonDrogon> don't see the point...
[20:17] <techsurvivor> just curious :)
[20:17] <ziltro2> Some people have, the one which went up on a balooon had one.
[20:18] <ziltro2> But I don't think that was on the SoC.
[20:19] <[SkG]> gordonDrogon, hmmm I think that can skip the ATmega part but if I can't will use arduino
[20:25] * Mazon (~Mazon@ Quit (Quit: meh)
[20:25] <paxcoder> techsurvivor, yeah, it was the mobile. but now i'm getting 2.7 MB/s
[20:25] <paxcoder> consistently. it's not an improvement i hoped for with the card reader
[20:27] * plugwash (~plugwash@cpc7-stkp7-2-0-cust208.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:27] * PiBot sets mode +v plugwash
[20:27] <rsc> Why does that crappy hardware thing completely freeze while writing trying to write ~ 50 MB to the SD card
[20:28] <ziltro2> Because it is not a good hardware thing?
[20:28] <paxcoder> rsc, you're going to have to be more specific :-)
[20:28] * Mike632T (~mike632t@host81-132-116-225.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:28] * PiBot sets mode +v Mike632T
[20:28] <Berry_HK> rsc: tried another SD card?
[20:29] * GabrialDestruir (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:29] * PiBot sets mode +v GabrialDestruir
[20:31] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S01060017c59d47cd.ca.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Gallomimia
[20:33] * KW21 (~KW21@D978E830.cm-3-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:33] * PiBot sets mode +v KW21
[20:34] * aphadke (~Adium@c-71-198-5-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:34] * PiBot sets mode +v aphadke
[20:34] * aphadke loves pi!
[20:35] <aphadke> reading about android port, will users be able to install apps from marketplace?
[20:35] <plugwash> my guess is "not officially"
[20:35] * Mazon (~Mazon@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:35] * PiBot sets mode +v Mazon
[20:36] <plugwash> In the sense that the Pi guys almost certainly aren't licesnsed to ship the market as part of their images but if you install it from elsewhere it will most likely work
[20:36] * andypiper (~andypiper@pdpc/supporter/professional/andypiper) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[20:36] <aphadke> plugwash: gotcha.. also trying to get skype video to work on my pi
[20:36] <aphadke> got skypekit, awaiting webcam
[20:38] * paxcoder (~cyberpunk@unaffiliated/paxcoder) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:39] <Mazon> chithead: added both workarounds and restarted machine ... will report back
[20:39] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@S01060017c59d47cd.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: I am likely going to change locations)
[20:39] * mpthompson (~IceChat77@c-50-131-39-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:39] * PiBot sets mode +v mpthompson
[20:39] <aphadke> plugwash: anyway to install android 4? or need to wait for hte official package?
[20:40] <plugwash> dunno, i'm not really following the andriod stuff too closely
[20:40] <aphadke> plugwash: k..
[20:41] <aphadke> me thinks Pi will be an awesome companion in emerging markets..
[20:41] * skryking (~skryking@76-245-244-209.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:41] * PiBot sets mode +v skryking
[20:41] * GabrialDestruir_ (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:41] * PiBot sets mode +v GabrialDestruir_
[20:41] <aphadke> connect to TV, have facebook + twitter + video chat and u get people to drool over it :)
[20:41] <GabrialDestruir_> Bah... apparently my IRC connection is choppy
[20:42] <[SLB]> anyone made mjpg-streamer work on the pi?
[20:42] * Mike632T (~mike632t@host81-132-116-225.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:44] * GabrialDestruir (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:45] * gordonDrogon plays buzword bingo with the screen...
[20:46] * Mike632T (~mike632t@host81-132-116-225.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:46] * PiBot sets mode +v Mike632T
[20:47] <charolastra> sure
[20:47] <charolastra> get the svn version
[20:48] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:48] <[SLB]> im trying to build it, should be straight forward, we'll see in a moment, or two :3
[20:49] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:49] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[20:49] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:50] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:50] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac
[20:50] <[SLB]> hm which dev package should i install to get videodev.h?
[20:51] * donzoomik (~donzoomik@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] * PiBot sets mode +v donzoomik
[20:52] * markbook (~markllama@pool-74-104-180-140.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[20:53] * PiBot sets mode +v yaswanth
[20:54] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[20:55] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:55] * darkbasic_ (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:55] * PiBot sets mode +v darkbasic_
[20:56] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[20:57] * webad_13 (~milos@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:57] * PiBot sets mode +v webad_13
[20:57] <charolastra> none, copy the videodev2.h to that name; should work fine
[20:57] <[SLB]> hum
[20:59] <[SLB]> awesome thanks
[21:00] <webad_13> What sort of conectivity opions could you explore to have raspberry push video to android device or tablet. Now I am asking for this on the go, so not interested in setting up VNC and accessing via ethernet port - more along the lines of having VNC over bluethoot or better yet with usb cable. Just thinking how one cound connect this to say Nexus 7 - assume debian installed
[21:01] * Mike632T (~mike632t@host81-132-116-225.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) has left #raspberrypi
[21:05] * Berry_HK (~Berry@5356AEE3.cm-6-7c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:06] * Killerkid1 (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:06] * Berry_HK (~Berry@5356AEE3.cm-6-7c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:06] * PiBot sets mode +v Berry_HK
[21:06] <scriptx> are there portable (battery) packs developed for the raspberry-pi model b?
[21:06] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[21:07] <gordonDrogon> I've seen a few being powerd off the USB phone charger types of battery pack...
[21:08] <scriptx> hah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iyBSkc02Cg
[21:11] <Syliss> I've used this with mine, works well http://www.duracell.com/en-US/product/instant-usb-charger.jspx
[21:11] <Syliss> was only $8 at radio shack one day
[21:11] <GabrialDestruir_> I'm still waiting to see if someone comes out with a Pi Case with a rechargable battery pack.
[21:12] <GabrialDestruir_> and a back up battery with a stand alone charger
[21:13] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:13] <GabrialDestruir_> Though the Pi doesn't really have a hibernate mode or something in which you could replace batteries and boot back up.
[21:14] * rvl (john.doe@d54C2B7B3.access.telenet.be) Quit ()
[21:15] <GabrialDestruir_> Maybe using a two battery setup, you'd get a couple rectangular batteries, like the ones used on Mobile Phones, then you have it so you can swap them out.
[21:15] <GabrialDestruir_> That way you'll always have one battery to keep it alive while you swap out the second battery.
[21:17] <ziltro2> LiIon cells can be paralleled.
[21:17] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[21:18] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[21:18] <GabrialDestruir_> Actually i was just thinking the best way would be like a fallback battery. Normally you'd have it pull from main battery which is easily swap-able, and when you go to swap, or when the main battery is just dead, it'd resort to the fallback battery.
[21:21] * Syliss (~Syliss@adsl-108-201-90-126.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[21:24] * jcdutton (~jcdutton@5ac34c63.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:24] * PiBot sets mode +v jcdutton
[21:26] * the-tor (~the-tor@cm- has joined #raspberrypi
[21:26] * PiBot sets mode +v the-tor
[21:26] <jcdutton> Where is the boot process explained for the pi?
[21:26] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@VPNRASA-WLAN-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:26] * PiBot sets mode +v kkimlabs
[21:31] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@VPNRASA-WLAN-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:32] <gordonDrogon> jcdutton, all over the place - google - but briefly, GPU ROM loads loader.bin off the SD card this then loads start.elf, which then loads kernel.img... (or something close to that)
[21:33] <jcdutton> gordonDrogon, Where is the GPU ROM? Can it be examined?
[21:34] <jcdutton> gordonDrogon, I want something like the GPU starts execution at location X in memory which is the ROM. The ROM then contains a SD card driver, so it can read the loader.bin file off the SD card.
[21:35] * mrdragons (~meh@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:35] * PiBot sets mode +v mrdragons
[21:36] <zgreg> friggle: neato, dom pushed the kernel with the fix
[21:36] <zgreg> let's see if it helps :)
[21:36] <jcdutton> gordonDrogon, I am trying to find out if the pi uses ARM secure boot or not.
[21:36] <ziltro2> The ROM is inside the SoC I would assume.
[21:36] <ziltro2> So... sharp knife, electron microscope? ;)
[21:37] <friggle> zgreg: yeah, will probably be a while till we can say for sure. There's usually just a really slow trickle of corruption reports
[21:37] <Joe_KD2AKU> Looks cool! http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/01/raspberry-pi-android-ice-cream-sandwich/
[21:37] <friggle> zgreg: though your hunch about what the problem actually is sounds like a good one, and would explain why it only results in FAT corruption, so fingers crossed :)
[21:37] <jcdutton> I have corruption problems with the pi.
[21:38] * TimRiker (TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:38] <GabrialDestruir_> I wish the Pi power cycled better.
[21:39] <jcdutton> zgreg, what is the theory around the pi corrupting the SD card?
[21:39] <friggle> jcdutton: what corruption are you seeing?
[21:39] <gordonDrogon> jcdutton, sorry - was akf doing invoices )-:
[21:40] <friggle> jcdutton: see https://github.com/grigorig/rpi-linux/commit/f20f6ae0c3a1338a67be8848f9f2613b9d562b2d
[21:40] <friggle> jcdutton: are you seeing corruption outside of the FAT partition?
[21:40] * PortaLu (~LucretiaL@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:40] * PiBot sets mode +v PortaLu
[21:40] <jcdutton> friggle, Doing a simple "vi" on config.txt causes file corruption
[21:40] <gordonDrogon> jcdutton, yes, inside the SoC, so the chances of altering are about zero. loader.bin and start.elf has more of a chance, but even then it's still gpu voodoo magic...
[21:40] <friggle> jcdutton: fantastic! That's the exact case we hope that fixes :)
[21:40] <jcdutton> friggle, I think so. rpi-update has disappeared.
[21:41] <friggle> I haven't seen any confirmed ext4 corruption reports which aren't due to hard power cycling etc
[21:41] <gordonDrogon> I've never seen a corruption - and just been thorugh a cycle of about a dozen or more vi's of config.txt followed by an immediate reboot...
[21:41] <gordonDrogon> guess I'm lucky.
[21:41] <friggle> gordonDrogon: yeah I know, neither me nor Dom or zgreg/lb can reproduce it either :)
[21:42] <ziltro2> jcdutton: Are you unmounting and/or running 'sync' after editing?
[21:42] <friggle> but there is a steady stream of reports
[21:42] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[21:42] <gordonDrogon> yes, I think I've seen 1 or 2.
[21:42] * Tron1275 (~Tron1275@02dc8bc7.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:42] * PiBot sets mode +v Tron1275
[21:42] <jcdutton> friggle, also, the debian download from the pi site, has an incorrect partition size, causing write attempts beyond end of partition.
[21:42] <friggle> ziltro2: if he's hitting the fat corruption bug that doesn't matter. In fact we got someone to write, sync, drop the cache and then we see that the wrong data hit the disk
[21:43] <ziltro2> Ah okay.
[21:43] <jcdutton> ziltro2, I do "sync" after editing config.txt
[21:43] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[21:43] * PiBot sets mode +v paxcoder
[21:43] <friggle> jcdutton: can you elaborate what you're doing to see this?
[21:43] <gordonDrogon> I though the sync option was added into fstab for it?
[21:43] * aheadley (~aheadley@mg.xen.im) has left #raspberrypi
[21:44] <jcdutton> friggle, I don't see the problem with the latest git boot files.
[21:44] <gordonDrogon> wonder if bootc will add it into his kernel...
[21:44] <jcdutton> friggle, I only see the problem with 2012-07-15-wheezy-raspbian.zip
[21:44] <friggle> gordonDrogon: I tried that yes, but it doesn't actually help and is stricter than we actually want (so I removed it again in the raspbian foundation image). On bad cards, it made copying start.elf take *for ever*on bad cards, where it would do syncs for every block
[21:44] <paxcoder> i connected my rpi to an old TV via composite video, and the image is black and white and flickers. the tv and its jack are functional, and it's not the cable because i tried two. is something damaged?
[21:45] <gordonDrogon> friggle, yes, I can see that that might be somewhat sub optimal!
[21:45] <friggle> paxcoder: no, you probably just need to switch to PAL
[21:45] <paxcoder> friggle: sounds right. how do i do that?
[21:45] * Flipo (~Nat@76-10-172-14.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[21:45] <friggle> paxcoder: http://elinux.org/R-Pi_Troubleshooting#Composite_displays_only_back_and_white_or_no_image
[21:45] <paxcoder> friggle: umm.. the TV is PAL
[21:45] <jcdutton> friggle, I first saw the corruption problems when editing with vi of config.txt. vi took ages to write the file, and afterwards, the config.txt file was truncated half way through.
[21:46] <friggle> paxcoder: yeah, despite the fact the pi defaults to UK everything else it defaults to NTSC composite output :)
[21:46] <gordonDrogon> paxcoder, read that, but put sdtv_mode=2 into /boot/config.txt to start with
[21:46] <ziltro2> The RPi can presumably output PAL and others and is on the wrong setting.
[21:46] <ziltro2> Can it do SECAM? :)
[21:46] <paxcoder> friggle: weird
[21:46] <paxcoder> gordonDrogon: what's "2"?
[21:46] <friggle> paxcoder: well, a *lot* more TVs support NTSC than support PAL
[21:46] * donzoomik (~donzoomik@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:47] <gordonDrogon> paxcoder, 1 is never twice same color, 2 is PAL, 3 is ... the weird japanese one (I think)
[21:47] <paxcoder> friggle: are you sure?
[21:47] <friggle> jcdutton: could you explain more about this partition problem? I prepare that raspbian image and haven't had any similar reports.
[21:47] <paxcoder> gordonDrogon: that's what NTSC stands for? lul
[21:47] * plugwash would find it interesting to know for sure but given american arrogance it wouldn't surprise me
[21:47] <friggle> paxcoder: not 100% sure no, but certainly a lot of PAL displays I encounter are happy ith NTSC
[21:48] <friggle> while I expect many US tvs don't bother with pal support
[21:48] <jcdutton> friggle, the problem of corruption occurs when this appears in the dmesg log: mmc0: missed completion of cmd 17 DMA (512/512 [1]/[1]) - ignoring it
[21:48] <ziltro2> Isn't there some american thing where if the TV can display anything other than NTSC they get taxed harder on it because it is "foreign"?
[21:48] <gordonDrogon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PAL-NTSC-SECAM.svg
[21:48] <paxcoder> gordonDrogon: just found that
[21:48] <Hodapp> ziltro2: I wouldn't be surprised.
[21:48] <GabrialDestruir_> I wonder how much I'd have to modify my lego case to be enclosed and to support a GPIO ribbon...
[21:48] <[SkG]> uh... cmd 17 DMA... I got that with my 4gb class 6
[21:48] <paxcoder> but that doesn't say about the nr. of tv sets. friggle may still be right...
[21:48] <Hodapp> I have this magical VGA box thingy that handles NTSC, PAL, and like 7 other standards I have never heard of.
[21:48] <jcdutton> friggle, I don't have that particular problem any more, since I did a mkfs on the fat partition.
[21:49] <friggle> jcdutton: I get the corruption issue - that should hopefully be fixed by zgreg's patch. It's the claim that the image has an "incorrect partition size"
[21:49] <ziltro2> Although there is a video recorder tax in the UK which is why most camcorders don't have any video input connectors.
[21:49] <Hodapp> the one thing it DOESN'T handle is S-Video. I don't quite get that.
[21:49] <paxcoder> anyway thanks, will try
[21:49] <friggle> jcdutton: ah ok, is it possible corruption on the FAT partition corrupted your FAT partition table?
[21:49] <Hodapp> the chip inside doesn't even have two pins for S-Video input.
[21:49] <Hodapp> er, FAT partition table? What is that?
[21:50] <friggle> ziltro2: oh really, didn't realise we had that? Not as bad as Germany with the tax on all blank media
[21:50] <Hodapp> the only type of partition table you're likely to see FAT inside is an MBR one
[21:50] <ziltro2> I thought there was a blank media tax too? Maybe not.
[21:50] <ziltro2> Or blank CDs/DVDs/something
[21:50] <gordonDrogon> Germany does that? thought it was just .ca ..
[21:50] <friggle> Hodapp: yes you're right, I just mean "FAT partition"
[21:50] <Hodapp> ziltro2: music CD-Rs are/were more expensive than data ones because of said tax, IIRC
[21:51] <Hodapp> even though they're usually just the data CD-Rs with minor defects, relabeled
[21:51] <friggle> gordonDrogon: yeah, and I believe it recently got massively increased too. It's particularly silly as they just import from Austria
[21:51] <jcdutton> friggle, I don't know where the corruption is happening exactly. I personally think it is a bug in the mmc sd card driver. Apparently, this might be caused by the GPU firmware, and the latest git for the firmware seems to have helped, but I cannot be sure.
[21:51] <ziltro2> Of course such taxes are because of "copyright", so we should be able to copy anything as we've already paid...
[21:51] <ziltro2> s/able/allowed/
[21:51] <Hodapp> ziltro2: And of course none of those taxes/fines end up making it to the artists who are the ostensible reason for those taxes/fines.
[21:52] <friggle> jcdutton: yes, the new kernel.img pushed by Dom about half an hour ago should hopefully fix it
[21:52] <ziltro2> What we need is to get rid of taxes.
[21:52] <friggle> jcdutton: what SD card are you using?
[21:52] <gordonDrogon> what's the official way to keep kernel+firmware, etc. up to date in Raspbian?
[21:52] * MycoRunner (~brady@cpe-74-66-249-170.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:52] * PiBot sets mode +v MycoRunner
[21:52] <ziltro2> Now to make a polititian crushing robot... ;)
[21:52] <gordonDrogon> is rpi-update still the way?
[21:53] <friggle> gordonDrogon: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade (see the forum thread for a 'bleeding edge' repository that has more frequently updated firmware)
[21:53] <jcdutton> friggle, a 32GB one. Class 10 apparently, although my video camera begs to disagree.
[21:53] <gordonDrogon> friggle, ok - but I probably never had the package in my original raspbian which I've never replaced...
[21:53] <Hodapp> ziltro2: I don't have a problem with taxes, just with stupidly complex tax codes and stupid taxes.
[21:54] <friggle> gordonDrogon: well in that case you may as well just keep on rpi-updating. It works and will continue to work just fine
[21:54] <gordonDrogon> actually, have to say I'm not that fussed about any more upgrades myself - for now and I'm happy with my own compiled kernel, but I guess it's good to know what to do for others or if I need to.
[21:54] <jcdutton> friggle, where is rpi-update supposed to be? It is missing on my rpi sd card.
[21:55] <friggle> jcdutton: it isn't included on the foundation raspbian image. apt-get will give stable updates, and you can add a bleeding edge repo (see forum) to get more frequent, less tested firmware updates
[21:55] * ebswift (~ebswift@ppp118-208-106-71.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:55] * PiBot sets mode +v ebswift
[21:56] <jcdutton> gordonDrogon, for the compiled kernel, what format is the kernel.img ? Is it zimage?
[21:57] <gordonDrogon> jcdutton, uncompressed.
[21:57] <gordonDrogon> at least I think it's uncompressed. Hm.
[21:57] <gordonDrogon> root@raspberrypi:~# file /boot/kernel.img
[21:57] <gordonDrogon> /boot/kernel.img: Linux kernel ARM boot executable zImage (little-endian)
[21:58] <jcdutton> $ file kernel.img
[21:58] <jcdutton> kernel.img: DBase 3 index file
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[21:58] * PiBot sets mode +v vandenoever
[21:58] <Mco> thats the uncompressed one
[21:59] <ziltro2> That'll boot... ;)
[21:59] <friggle> jcdutton: yeah, the kernel.img we currently distribute aren't compressed. Compressed kernels had problems for a while, though are fine now
[21:59] <ziltro2> I must get around to compiling my own kernel... Can you do it in the RPi?
[21:59] <gordonDrogon> yes.
[22:00] <gordonDrogon> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2265576 Jul 29 18:05 /boot/kernel.img
[22:00] * Geniack (~Geniack@p54854F3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:00] * PiBot sets mode +v Geniack
[22:00] <gordonDrogon> mine took about 2 hours to do.
[22:00] <ziltro2> Oh wow that's quicker than I thought
[22:00] <ziltro2> I used to do it on 486es... :)
[22:00] <gordonDrogon> although I have a very cut-down config with the bare minimum I need.
[22:00] <ziltro2> I'm used to that.
[22:00] <ziltro2> Yeah, not much point using more than you need.
[22:00] <jcdutton> gordonDrogon, can't you cross compile it instead. that should be quicker
[22:00] <gordonDrogon> I think the full kernel & modules does take a little longer.
[22:00] <ssvb> ziltro2: it's 2 minutes if built on your desktop computer :)
[22:00] <gordonDrogon> jcdutton, yes, I notmally cross compile - I just did it once to see how it went.
[22:00] <ziltro2> Ah that's boring! ;)
[22:01] <ziltro2> I want to do it on the Pi
[22:01] <gordonDrogon> brnb
[22:01] <Geniack> i got a class 10/16 gb/shdc sd card and i am trying to change the geometry for this card, but after doing "w" in fdisk it seems the changes take no effect, taking out the card and putting it back in still left me with the old values... does this sound familiar to anyone?
[22:01] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-41-83.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:01] * PiBot sets mode +v cjbaird
[22:01] <ssvb> ziltro2: it's exactly the same, so building on the Pi must be boring too :)
[22:02] <jcdutton> what exactly is the reason for the corruption? Does anyone know ?
[22:02] <cjbaird> It seems that the latest Australian shipment
[22:02] <ziltro2> But it would mean I'd use the RPi for something.
[22:02] <friggle> jcdutton: see the commit I linked to for the best current thoery https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/commit/f20f6ae0c3a1338a67be8848f9f2613b9d562b2d
[22:02] <ziltro2> Which I'm not doing much at the moment, as I'm waiting for other stuff to arrive.
[22:02] <cjbaird> It seems that the latest Australian E14 shipment hit the couriers last night (..my tracking detail starts at 7pm.. Someone's working overtime. :)
[22:02] * bnmorgan (~bnmorgan@unaffiliated/bnmorgan) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[22:03] <ziltro2> Mmm, Australian Pi.
[22:03] * kvarley (~kevin@unaffiliated/kvarley) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:04] * Berglund (~Berglund@user93.82-197-241.netatonce.net) Quit (Quit: Computer died.)
[22:06] * mentar (~mentar@host-92-9-193-185.as43234.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:06] * PiBot sets mode +v mentar
[22:06] * GabrialDestruir_ (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[22:07] <jcdutton> friggle, interesting. I think the real problem might be something else. Say if the device reports it has 512 byte blocks, but actually it has 1024 blocks, so that each write of only 512 bytes actually writes 1024 bytes, but fills the later 512 bytes of the 1024 block with zeros.
[22:08] <cjbaird> Oddly, my two orders, the first made on the 16th of July 'within seconds' of the E14 open ordering happening, and another on the 19th (after asking around for friends), are both shipping today..
[22:08] <friggle> jcdutton: cards that do that would be *really* broken though
[22:10] <jcdutton> friggle, cards that fail on single block writes would also be *really* broken as well.
[22:10] <jcdutton> friggle, as per the patch.
[22:10] <friggle> jcdutton: yes, but it could actually be a controller issue
[22:11] <jcdutton> there was a fix for SD card corruption in the loader.bin file, according to the git.
[22:14] * Maccer (~Maccer@ Quit (Excess Flood)
[22:17] * Fin9x (~Fin@cpc23-slam6-2-0-cust130.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] * PiBot sets mode +v Fin9x
[22:17] <Fin9x> hello! I've a question about using vi on the pi through ssh, can anyone help?
[22:18] * Civil (~Civil@chb14k1kv79.static.corbina.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> go
[22:18] * MrZYX is now known as MrZYX|off
[22:18] * MrZYX|off (~MrZYX@h1800429.stratoserver.net) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[22:19] <jcdutton> Fin9x, It works, what is the question
[22:19] <Fin9x> I'm sshing from a mb pro, whenever I try to edit in vi, the arrow keys come out as capital letters, they don't move the cursor
[22:19] <Fin9x> backspace doesn't work at all
[22:19] <Fin9x> though I can type ok
[22:20] <Fin9x> all the keys work as expected on the command line
[22:20] <jcdutton> Fin9x, try "set |grep -i term"
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[22:21] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[22:21] <paxcoder> where are the scripts called by the TUI that appears on first boot located?
[22:21] <jcdutton> Fin9x, what output does that command give?
[22:22] <friggle> paxcoder: /usr/bin/raspi-config
[22:22] <friggle> paxcoder: github.com/asb/raspi-config
[22:22] * MrZYX (~MrZYX@h1800429.stratoserver.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:22] * PiBot sets mode +v MrZYX
[22:22] * Syliss (~Syliss@ Quit (Client Quit)
[22:22] <Fin9x> jcdutton TERM=screen
[22:23] * MrZYX (~MrZYX@h1800429.stratoserver.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:23] <paxcoder> friggle: thanks. do you also happen to know if there's a list of non-free software used in raspian?
[22:23] <Fin9x> jcdutton though there's a TERMCAP too, it's probably got about 1000 characters after it
[22:24] <friggle> paxcoder: well, that rather depends what you install. Check out the 'vrms' package
[22:24] <friggle> paxcoder: the only non-free software the image ships with iirc is: wifi firmware and videocore libs
[22:25] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:25] <paxcoder> friggle: why does it ship with wifi drivers?
[22:26] <paxcoder> *firmware
[22:26] <friggle> paxcoder: they don't take up much space and it's helpful for those with wifi dongles
[22:26] <friggle> paxcoder: and the licenses alow unmodified distribution in a reasonable nough way
[22:27] <paxcoder> that's a hard way of saying "freeware".
[22:27] * Maccer (~Maccer@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] * PiBot sets mode +v Maccer
[22:27] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[22:27] <ziltro2> Yay freeware :)
[22:28] <friggle> paxcoder: ermm I suppose. But I assumed by non-free you meant "not free by the Free Software Foundation definition" as that's the context I hear it most (indeed, Debian has a 'non-free' package archive)
[22:28] <paxcoder> yuck proprietary software
[22:28] <paxcoder> friggle: that's what i meant yeah. but you went on to say that the proprietary driver is freeware :-)
[22:28] <jcdutton> Fin9x, not sure. vi just works here.
[22:29] * Mike632T (~mike632t@host81-132-116-225.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Mike632T
[22:29] <friggle> paxcoder: well, that's my reason for including them. I'm not a fan of proprietary software either, but the case of firmware which gets loaded on to devices is a little odd
[22:29] * paxcoder tries to find what exactly is raspian (vs debian)
[22:29] * sutterCane (~Cane@f054009218.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] * PiBot sets mode +v sutterCane
[22:30] <ziltro2> Raspbian is compiled for the SoC, including hardware FPU.
[22:30] <friggle> paxcoder: rebuild of debian using armv6 and hard floating point ABI. Debian armhf is not suitable as all packages are compiled for armv7+
[22:30] <paxcoder> friggle: oh you're a dev? didn't know that.
[22:30] <friggle> paxcoder: I do the foundation distribution images
[22:31] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:31] * PiBot sets mode +v LWK_mac
[22:31] <paxcoder> friggle: can you talk to someone who can talk to broadcom to enable booting from USB?
[22:31] * Weaselweb (~quassel@2001:6f8:9e4:123:21a:92ff:fe5a:1409) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:31] <paxcoder> *to have them
[22:31] <paxcoder> for Model C at least.
[22:32] <Mike632T> Trying to decide which web browser to use with MATE on Raspberry Pi - Midori seems a bit unstable, and Netsurf is fast but doesn't work too well ... What are other people using..?
[22:32] <friggle> paxcoder: if you want to boot via USB, either use the kernel as a bootloader or go via u-boot
[22:32] * ebswift (~ebswift@ppp118-208-106-71.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
[22:32] <[SkG]> Mike632T lynx
[22:33] <[SkG]> also... I'm not using X :P
[22:33] <[SkG]> well sometimes, openbox and Midori but... who needs X
[22:33] <Mike632T> Interesting choice for a MATE desktop - but it has some advantages :-)
[22:34] <cave> hi, i wanna play a mp3 webstream. but "wget -O - http://hirschmilch.de:7000/psytrance.mp3 | madplay -" is not working as thought.
[22:34] <cave> it runs headless and I'm connected with ssh
[22:34] <[SkG]> have you tried with mplayer/mplayer2
[22:34] <cave> and headphones
[22:34] <[SkG]> or even better... xmms2
[22:35] <cave> i will try
[22:35] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[22:35] <cave> madplay will be more lightweight and even from the Commandline
[22:35] <Mike632T> headphones - reminds me has anyone had their pi hand or reboot when the plug in a pair of head phones ..?
[22:36] <[SkG]> but it seems that madplay dont support streams
[22:36] <[SkG]> native way i mean
[22:36] <Mike632T> s/the/they/
[22:36] <cave> I'm running madplay with pipes on some Router and USB-Soundcard #openwrt this works nice....
[22:37] * rabbidrabbit (d9ef09cc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[22:37] * PiBot sets mode +v rabbidrabbit
[22:38] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[22:38] * PiBot sets mode +v paxcoder
[22:38] <paxcoder> friggle: yeah, but i don't want to use the SD card at all
[22:39] <friggle> paxcoder: you need to have a bootloader on the SD card. The bootloader in ROM on the GPU is tiny and essentially unchangeable
[22:39] <ziltro2> I've plugged and unplugged an amplifier to the RPi and it hasn't rebooted.
[22:39] <friggle> paxcoder: it is just enough code to read a file from a FAT partition
[22:39] <paxcoder> i have some space before the first partition, can i move the two partitions and then resize the second one to fill the card?
[22:39] <MycoRunner> general question-- will any class 10 SD card work well or are there recommended brands?
[22:39] <paxcoder> friggle: i could have it on the USB if the tiny one would let me
[22:39] <cave> using SDcards on R_pi reminds me on my NES Console, changing cards for different games... changing SDcards with different purposes configured
[22:39] <paxcoder> *stick
[22:39] <cave> is there a way for multiboot?
[22:40] <paxcoder> cave: of course.
[22:40] <nputnam> MycoRunner : you can google for it, there is a list somewhere. Some SD cards are known not to work
[22:40] <cave> is the way explored at the moment?
[22:40] <MycoRunner> nputnam: thanks
[22:41] <cave> make a boot partition with some kind of GRUB and second and third partition to choose to boot...
[22:42] * gmjhowe (~gmjhowe@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:42] * PiBot sets mode +v gmjhowe
[22:43] <paxcoder> cave: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10814 and http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8059
[22:44] <paxcoder> so does anyone know if i am allowed to move the first partition (i'm guessing no)? why is there 4MB of free space before it?
[22:44] * Mike632T (~mike632t@host81-132-116-225.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[22:45] -MemoServ- You have a new memo from Onewhohelps (1).
[22:45] -MemoServ- To read it, type /msg MemoServ READ 1
[22:46] <paxcoder> :-/
[22:46] * Mike632T (~mike632t@host81-132-116-225.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:46] * PiBot sets mode +v Mike632T
[22:47] * LWK_mac (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[22:48] <cjbaird> I can't answer why there's the 4MB space at the start now (..when it used to be the MSDOS-era 63 sectors), but I'm thinking it's probably to do with stopping witless people starting partitions in bad places on SSD drives..
[22:48] <Fin9x> jcdutton Using :set nocompatible within vi seems to fix the arrow keys, still working on the backspace!
[22:49] <paxcoder> cjbaird: i also don't have a swap partitoin. should i first boot it up, and then resize?
[22:50] <friggle> paxcoder: you should be allowed to move it fine yes
[22:50] <rabbidrabbit> Fin9x what shell are you using?
[22:50] <cjbaird> I prepared the 16MB SD card I now use as a bootdevice on another Linux box with gparted-- you won't be able to modify a mounted filesystem.
[22:50] <friggle> cjbaird: to force proper alignment. Otherwise the lowest offset you can put the first partition at is 512B
[22:51] <friggle> cjbaird: and for most SD cards erase blocks are 1/2/4MB
[22:51] <Fin9x> jcdutton bash
[22:51] <paxcoder> friggle: you mean the first partition (with boot info) as well? and where will swap go if i fill everything?
[22:51] <paxcoder> i'm waiting here, staring at the gparted window
[22:51] <friggle> paxcoder: the foundation raspbian image is using a swap file anyway (easier to manage, bypasses the filesystem layer anyway)
[22:52] <Fin9x> jcdutton fixed it with this ~ $ cat .vimrc
[22:52] <Fin9x> :set nocompatible
[22:52] <Fin9x> :set backspace=indent,eol,start
[22:52] <paxcoder> friggle: oh. thanks. but... i still don't know if i can move the first partition to the beginning?
[22:53] <friggle> paxcoder: well the earliest you can move it to is 512B
[22:53] <friggle> due to the partition table
[22:53] <paxcoder> i guess it doesn't pay off :-)
[22:53] <friggle> and then it's not aligned for best performance
[22:53] <paxcoder> ok, thanks mate.
[22:54] <ziltro2> Wouldn't the alignment of the second partition be more important?
[22:54] <ziltro2> ie. the first is rarely written to usually?
[22:55] <friggle> ziltro2: yes, it's not massively important
[22:55] * tcial (~tcial@host-87-75-138-84.dslgb.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:55] * PiBot sets mode +v tcial
[22:57] <urs> After my >24h xbmc compilation orgy, I now got a xbmc that runs, has working audio, but doesn't seem to play videos.
[22:57] <ziltro2> Fantastic! :)
[22:57] <ziltro2> You're half way there then... ;)
[22:57] <urs> All I get is a black blinking cursor, as if the video chip doesn't render its overlay
[22:57] <urs> omxplayer itself works fine, so there's no fundamental problem there.
[22:57] <ziltro2> These are MPEG4 videos?
[22:57] <ziltro2> Oh ok
[22:58] <urs> And xbmc also renders it's controls over it
[22:58] <urs> and seems to think everything is running fine
[22:59] <urs> ah, maybe I'll have to try as root.
[23:01] * KW21 (~KW21@D978E830.cm-3-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:01] * tech2077 (~tech2077@adsl-75-53-138-202.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:04] <urs> nope, that didn't help.
[23:05] * Timmmaaaayyy (~Timmmaaaa@cpe-74-73-185-27.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Timmmaaaayyy)
[23:06] <cjbaird> fwiw, it took 4 days and 19 hours to do an 'emerge -euv world' on a Gentoo system with the stock stage3... :p :)
[23:07] <vandenoever> cjbaird: you're a patient person, i hope you got the USE flags right
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[23:08] * PiBot sets mode +v aec
[23:08] * fredreichbier (~fred@unaffiliated/fredreichbier) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:10] <aec> okay, couple of questions. I am going to setup a network of r-pi's and PCs. Because my home router has limited number of eth ports, I want to connect some of them with usb.
[23:10] <aec> problem is, I don't know whether the length of usb has any affect on it
[23:10] <ziltro2> Connect them with USB how?
[23:11] <techsurvivor> usb network dongle?
[23:11] <ziltro2> USB is 5 metres without a repeater, IIRC.
[23:11] <techsurvivor> that's what I remember ziltro2 as well
[23:11] <aec> 5 without repeater, thanks
[23:11] <ziltro2> Mainly because I have 5 metre USB cables with repeaters on. :)
[23:12] * Fin9x (~Fin@cpc23-slam6-2-0-cust130.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has left #raspberrypi
[23:12] <aec> A repeater is basically an opamp, right?
[23:12] <techsurvivor> pretty sure the spec is that as well for usb 1.0 and 2.0, 3.0 is shorter
[23:12] <ziltro2> Probably something like that yeah.
[23:12] <aec> ziltro2: thanks mate
[23:12] <techsurvivor> i think... dang now I'm going to look up 3.0 :)
[23:12] <cjbaird> Fortunately for me, I didn't throw out my 10/100 switches when I upgraded a few years ago. :)
[23:13] <ziltro2> But yeah I would get a switch. ;)
[23:13] <ziltro2> 100 mbit ones are probably cheap? I dunno.
[23:13] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[23:13] <aec> what sort of a switch? I don't know
[23:13] <ziltro2> Ethernet. With as many ports as you need + 1.
[23:13] <cjbaird> protip: removing the cladding from the Cat5 cables makes managing shorter lengths easier..
[23:14] <ziltro2> Then plug the switch in to your router (might need a cross-over cabe)
[23:14] <aec> ziltro2: what is that element called again? "usb to ethernet plug"?
[23:14] <ziltro2> aec: They exist, but how would that help if your router doesn't have enough ethernet ports?
[23:15] <aec> ziltro2: okay, so it's an ethernet multiplier?
[23:15] <aec> ziltro2: I just don't know of any device; I'm asking so I can look one up
[23:15] <ziltro2> Ethernet switch.
[23:16] <aec> ziltro2: ethernet switch. alright
[23:16] <techsurvivor> get a switch and not a hub :)
[23:16] * ekselkiu (~ekselkiu@89-168-178-111.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:16] * PiBot sets mode +v ekselkiu
[23:16] <techsurvivor> although it's almost hard to find a hub, if you go cheap enough you could possibly find one ;)
[23:16] <techsurvivor> it's worth the extra $10
[23:16] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:16] <ekselkiu> I'm having problems with my keyboard rebooting. I've measured TP1-TP2 voltage and it's 5V, but drops to 4.8V while reading from the SD card. Is that drop normal?
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[23:17] * PiBot sets mode +v andypiper
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[23:17] * PiBot sets mode +v Gadget-Mac
[23:17] * jcdutton (~jcdutton@5ac34c63.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:18] <cjbaird> ekselkiu: doesn't sound like it. Seems to be a case of the keyboard drawing too much energy. You're not using a powered hub, I assume..
[23:18] <ekselkiu> cjbaird: I'm powering the pi through the hub, although I've tried various configurations.
[23:18] <ekselkiu> The keyboard is rated for 100mA.
[23:18] <ekselkiu> I've tried plugging the keyboard directly into the hub as well.
[23:18] * gmjhowe (~gmjhowe@ Quit (Quit: gmjhowe)
[23:20] <cjbaird> What's the power rating of the hub? My belkin couldn't do the rpi+usb HHD together, and I had to make a power rig from a 20W 5VDC supply.
[23:21] * Berglund (~Berglund@user93.82-197-241.netatonce.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:21] * PiBot sets mode +v Berglund
[23:21] * jolo2 (~jolo2@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:22] <ekselkiu> The hub itself? Doesn't seem to have one :-\
[23:23] <cjbaird> (which won't be overkill, as there's another 4 RPis going on it :)
[23:23] <ekselkiu> I think my power supply cable might be a bit too long.
[23:23] <ekselkiu> OTOH I tried powering it from one of my desktop PC's USB ports and had the same problem.
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[23:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Gabtendo
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[23:24] * PiBot sets mode +v jolo2
[23:25] * paxcoder (4e868adc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[23:25] * Berglund (~Berglund@user93.82-197-241.netatonce.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:26] <paxcoder> why won't omxplayer play theora?
[23:27] * rabbidrabbit (d9ef09cc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:28] <Tron1275> ekselkiu .... the 4.8 on tp2 seems to be normal... mine does it.... and im sure i have read this before....
[23:28] <cjbaird> Mine was always crashing at that point.
[23:30] <cjbaird> hmm, although testing now, it's @ 4.57V
[23:30] <Tron1275> cjbaird .... thats a bit low.... i think the lowest is 4.6v....
[23:31] <cjbaird> accuracy of the DMM nonwithstanding..
[23:31] <Tron1275> are you using good quality usb cable???
[23:31] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Cru
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[23:32] * PiBot sets mode +v markbook
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[23:33] * Chetic (~Chetic@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[23:35] <ekselkiu> With screen in visual bell mode, flashing around, I can get TP1-TP2 down from 5V to 4.6V
[23:36] <Tron1275> what current is the psu.... anything connected to the usb ports??
[23:37] * Cru (~mindwarp@deep-thought.ircnet.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:38] * cave (~cave@91-115-164-85.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
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[23:39] <cjbaird> The standard per port is supposedly 500mA, however I've never seen a 4 or 7 port powered hub provided with anything more than a 1000mA psu.
[23:39] * cerberos (~cerberos@host81-131-182-219.range81-131.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:39] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[23:40] <Tron1275> the rating of the B is 700ma..... are you running it off the hub???
[23:40] * mentar (~mentar@host-92-9-193-185.as43234.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[23:40] * PiBot sets mode +v mentar
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[23:43] <ekselkiu> PSU can provide ten amps.
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[23:43] * PiBot sets mode +v cerberos
[23:43] <ekselkiu> The only thing connected to the USB ports is the keyboard.
[23:44] <ekselkiu> I've now moved the keyboard to the hub and connected the hub to the pi. I haven't had any problems so far, but this same configuration did have problems before, so... :P
[23:45] * Mike632T (~mike632t@host81-132-116-225.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:45] <Tron1275> cable???? its not a cheepo usb cable??... i cant use the keyboard off my hub... i get problems like not working or sticking key syndrome!! its a 7 port silver/black fleabay one...!!
[23:45] * cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-44-41-83.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has left #raspberrypi
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[23:45] * PiBot sets mode +v Mike632T
[23:46] <ekselkiu> Tron1275: Which USB cable? The power supply one?
[23:47] <Tron1275> the one u got to the power input to pi...
[23:47] <ekselkiu> I've tried two different ones there.
[23:47] <Tron1275> ahhh.. i found the one i got with my phone 'seems' beter quality....
[23:48] <ekselkiu> How much voltage can I safely put on the pi's power supply anyway?
[23:49] <sutterCane> tron: "Model B owners using networking and high-current USB peripherals will require a supply which can source 700mA (many phone chargers meet this requirement). Model A owners with powered USB devices will be able to get away with a much lower current capacity (300mA feels like a reasonable safety margin)."
[23:49] <Tron1275> 5 volts!!! ... i hve tried a 3a psu....
[23:50] * tekniq (~tekniq@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:50] * PiBot sets mode +v tekniq
[23:50] <ekselkiu> Yen, but since the power supply voltage seems to keep dropping, perhaps giving it more voltage and letting the regulator handle it might work.
[23:50] <Tron1275> sutterCane .... thanks for clearing that up..... i knew i had read the 700ma thinggy!!
[23:51] <Tron1275> i think you will find it is higher @ the input.. before the reg......
[23:52] * Quietlyawesome94 (~chatzilla@adsl-074-184-089-183.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347])
[23:53] <Matt> like oatcakes
[23:53] <Matt> hrm, wrong window :)
[23:53] <Tron1275> hahahh ...lol
[23:53] <Tron1275> I like oatcakes!!
[23:54] <Tron1275> batts are goin..... night all... catch u all soon......
[23:56] * Tron1275 (~Tron1275@02dc8bc7.bb.sky.com) has left #raspberrypi

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