#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-08-16

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <bertrik> oh, the new firmware is a week old
[0:00] * A1B0HPH0B1A (~A1B0HPH0B@placebo.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:00] * PiBot sets mode +v A1B0HPH0B1A
[0:01] <thrawed> bertrik: it's an hour old for me
[0:01] <thrawed> make that two hours
[0:01] <clever> thrawed: i should give that a try, ive got a small lcd id like to use here
[0:02] <bertrik> I was at #278, back to #272 after apt-get upgrade (on raspbian)
[0:02] <dreamer> I just ran a d-u (are we talking about raspbian?)
[0:02] <bertrik> did a dist-upgrade too
[0:02] <bertrik> thrawed: what does uname -a say for you?
[0:02] <Gorroth> sup
[0:03] <bertrik> and no updates/upgrades after another apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
[0:03] <thrawed> bertrik: Linux pisces 3.1.9+ #278 PREEMPT Wed Aug 15 20:59:07 BST 2012 armv6l GNU/Linux
[0:03] <Gorroth> i do believe that when I get the RPi, i'm going to try and use the Ogre 3d engine on it
[0:03] <bertrik> odd
[0:04] <thrawed> bertrik: do a rpi-update
[0:04] <Gorroth> i don't know anything about 3d programming, but i'm hoping that a rendering engine can get me into it
[0:04] <bertrik> thrawed: no, it's uncertain if that still works I've heard
[0:04] <bertrik> thrawed: also, it's always resulted in non-booting system for me so far
[0:05] <thrawed> bertrik: uncertain? It worked for me 20 minutes ago.
[0:06] <axion> meh 3d
[0:06] <Gorroth> may be "meh" to you, but i want to learn it
[0:06] <axion> i code my games with sdl...either pygame or lispbuilder-sdl
[0:07] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Is there any real need to run rpi-update on Raspian? I heard the update is included on the original image.
[0:07] <bertrik> thrawed: rpi-update has never worked for me actually, always corrupts the /boot partition
[0:07] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-dev)
[0:07] <bertrik> making me having to fiddle with it to make it work again
[0:07] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:07] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[0:08] <[SLP]> time to find it out, brb :3
[0:08] <thrawed> bertrik: To be honest, this is the first I'm hearing of issues like that.
[0:08] * [SLP] (~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua) Quit (Quit: reboot)
[0:08] <bertrik> I did get some messages about "diversions" doing the apt-get upgrade of the rpi-bootloader & friends
[0:09] <axion> Gorroth: ok, but its easy to consume over a gig of ram with ogre3d
[0:09] <bertrik> I got a tip on how to fix things after rpi-update broke it and it worked, can't remember who it was exactly, but it was spot-on as if it was a known problem
[0:09] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Gorroth: TBH, 3D rendering seems frankly silly on a Raspberry Pi. Well to me at least. It's a sort of change 1 thing and gomake lunch!
[0:09] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@Tom4u/founder/tomtiger11) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:09] * PiBot sets mode +v Tomtiger11
[0:09] <bertrik> I think I also saw a thread about it somewhere
[0:09] <thrawed> A1B0HPH0B1A: the gpu is the best part about the pi
[0:10] <mru> it's pretty much the only part
[0:10] * wizardskills (~root@rogers1271.demon.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[0:10] <bertrik> the problem being that start.elf got corrupted by rpi-update somehow and having to copy one of the other XXX_start.elf over it again
[0:11] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: But you're still going to need more RAM than the RasPi has to do anything with it really. Even with Hardware accellerated rendering, you're still stuck for RAM.
[0:11] * Timmmaaaayyy (~Timmmaaaa@ has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:12] * Repiv (~Repiv@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[0:12] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-99-23-242-34.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[0:12] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:12] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[0:12] * prpplague (~danders@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:13] <thrawed> A1B0HPH0B1A: yeah, which is why x is going nowhere near my pi
[0:14] * altoid (~altoid@about/essy/orangelover/altoid) has left #raspberrypi
[0:15] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: Am actually running Xchat in X on a Raspberry Pi as we speak. Just finished the electricals of my Raspberry Pi laptop (excluding WiFi).
[0:15] <thrawed> my pi is headless, just running a web server at the moment
[0:16] <lrusak> pi laptop?
[0:17] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: I plan on running one for my business website one day. Plus run a lot of the home server stuff which desktops are currently doing.
[0:17] <thrawed> A1B0HPH0B1A: :O, I would never dream of using it for something as important as a business site.
[0:17] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lrusak: Yes, it is possible... It's made from a Motorola Lapdock for Atrix with a few custom cables.
[0:17] <Gorroth> A1B0HPH0B1A: well, i just thought a small 3d project could be pretty cool to do there
[0:17] * [SLP] (~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:17] * PiBot sets mode +v [SLP]
[0:18] <lrusak> hrhrhr hat's pretty cool
[0:18] <[SLP]> Linux pi 3.1.9+ #278 PREEMPT Wed Aug 15 20:59:07 BST 2012 armv6l GNU/Linux
[0:18] <lrusak> what are you using for an OS?
[0:18] <Gorroth> axion: hmm, maybe. they're porting it to android; so, maybe they have optimizations for small devices
[0:18] * piney0 (~piney@pool-70-111-45-130.nwrk.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:18] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Gorroth: Yeh, it's not a bad ides to push the envelope a little, but I think it may be pushing your luck a little.
[0:18] <[SLP]> rpi-update works
[0:18] <thrawed> android needs more than 256mb of ram though
[0:19] <thrawed> so it probably won't ever run amazingly
[0:19] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lrusak: I'm running Raspian Wheezy with a few modifications, nothing particularly complex.
[0:19] <lrusak> cool cool, just a personal project?
[0:22] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lrusak: Yeh, it was mostly because I wanted to stop using my 42in TV for my RasPi (only display with HDMI in house). But it's a lot of fun, and I think it runs fater at the lower secreen res. Plus, I can take it to Raspberry Pi Jams.
[0:22] <lrusak> does anyone know if newark sells any RPi development kits?
[0:22] <thrawed> lrusak: skpang have some
[0:22] <lrusak> Raspberry Pi Jams hahaha awesome
[0:22] <bertrik> hmmm, I think I'll re-image raspbian again ... :)
[0:23] * M3nti0n is now known as M3nti0n|off
[0:23] <lrusak> thawed ok, the only reason I said newark is because it's easier to order in canada because I can go to a local distributer and order it
[0:23] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lrusak: I'm restricted to public transport so fitting in a backpack is great.
[0:23] <thrawed> lrusak: http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/images/raspberrypi/kits/IMG_0002-3.jpg
[0:23] * watchd0g (~calhotas@bl13-228-42.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:24] <lrusak> awesome, are you using the hdmi out A1B0HPH0B1A?
[0:24] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lrusak: Yep... 1366x768.
[0:25] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[0:25] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[0:26] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@d154-20-9-142.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:26] * PiBot sets mode +v Gallomimia
[0:26] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lursak: I didn't come up with this idea, it's been done before by others... Thus far I've added a on-off switch. As of tommorow (hopefully) it'll have a bracket for the Pi.
[0:27] <Tachyon`> android doesn't need more than 256, I have an old MID that runs 2.2 on 128
[0:27] <Tachyon`> it's not /fun/ but it works
[0:27] <thrawed> Tachyon`: talking about the latest android
[0:27] <Tachyon`> ahhh
[0:28] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lrusak: Original post I found... http://blogs.arcsoftwareconsultancy.com/pi/2012/06/15/a-raspberry-pi-laptop/
[0:28] <lrusak> cool cool, looks like newark offers the gertboard http://canada.newark.com/element14/gertbom/gertboard-bare-pcb-w-components/dp/24W8739
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[0:29] * piney0 (~piney@pool-141-153-210-143.mad.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:30] * Killerkid (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:30] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Tachyon: There is probably a lot you could strip out of Android which you really wouldn't need. I doubt I'll need to use 3G on the Pi.
[0:30] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-99-23-242-34.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:30] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[0:30] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@d154-20-9-142.bchsia.telus.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:30] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:30] * PiBot sets mode +v kkimlabs
[0:31] <lrusak> seems pretty cheap for the lap dock http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_nkw=motorola+lapdock+atrix
[0:32] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lrusak: Yeh, I didn't spend a whole hell of a lot on mine. Was massively cheaper than a new TV anyhow.
[0:32] <lrusak> yea that's pretty cool
[0:32] * glyphrider (~quassel@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:33] <lrusak> I go to school for mechanical engineering and am trying to get more into programming, so I'm really wanting to find things to explorer
[0:34] <A1B0HPH0B1A> larusk: The unfortunate thing is that my lapdock has a Norwegian keyboard (I think).
[0:35] <A1B0HPH0B1A> larusk: I'm a Photography graduate, believe it or not. Really should have pushed to do a degree in computing.
[0:35] <Jungle-Boogie> for the debian wheezy, do i need to format the SD card as ext3 or 4?
[0:36] <A1B0HPH0B1A> jungle-boogie: You don't need to. When you put the image on it it creates the file system too.
[0:36] <Gorroth> A1B0HPH0B1A: maybe, but then again, 3d graphics have been running on systems with low amounts of ram for a while; i'm confident that i can do something basic with it
[0:36] * Streakfury (~Streakfur@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:36] <Gorroth> i've just never done 3d and wanna do it there
[0:36] <Jungle-Boogie> so no need to format? just insert card and use DD?
[0:37] <A1B0HPH0B1A> jungle-boogie: basically yes.
[0:38] * RaycisCharles (RaycisChar@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit ()
[0:38] <Jungle-Boogie> i've tried it seveal different ways and it hasn't worked. this isnt the first time I've used a pi but it sure is proving to be more difficult than usual
[0:39] <thrawed> Jungle-Boogie: it's not supposed to be plug and play
[0:39] <A1B0HPH0B1A> jungle-boogie: I'll admit... I've been very lazy and used Win32 Disk Imager or a Python script on Mac to write images thus far... Disk Imager makes it super easy, but does require windows.
[0:40] <axion> Gorroth: you can do 3d on it. no problem. my advice, don't _learn_ 3d on it, instead, do it on an adequate system where you arent spending time learning how to profile and refactor every function just to get throughput/less io
[0:40] <thrawed> A1B0HPH0B1A: dd is easy too, the commands are already written for you
[0:41] <Jungle-Boogie> i agree its no plug and play but the wheezy distro is more awkward to work than other distro IME
[0:41] * oco (~chatzilla@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-418-212.w90-41.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * PiBot sets mode +v oco
[0:41] <thrawed> why?
[0:41] <Gorroth> i'll be using my netbook and desktop machines to do most of the work, but i'll throw whatever i have on the rpi sometime after i get it
[0:41] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: I know... I just always seem to have my Windows box on these days (Mac unreliable right now) where as my most functional Linux box is somewhere in a backpack (I had to tidy in order to hoover).
[0:42] * oco (~chatzilla@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-418-212.w90-41.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:42] <thrawed> A1B0HPH0B1A: virtualbox/vmware makes it really easy to run an instance of linux within windows
[0:43] <axion> <insert flaming here>
[0:43] <AC`97> no, it makes it really easy to run an instance of windows within linux!
[0:43] <axion> ding ding ding
[0:43] <Essobi> Gorroth: I just setup distcc and cross compiling on ubuntu 12.04.. just got cross on osx 10.8.. going to setup distcc in a few now too.
[0:43] * AC`97 wins!
[0:43] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[0:43] * MycoRunner (~brady@cpe-74-66-249-170.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:43] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: I'm about to build a new Windows 7 box. At chich point I will have VMs again... But right now I just don't have the hard drive space for it.
[0:43] * highcenter (~highcente@unaffiliated/highcenter) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:43] <thrawed> AC`97: ..? He already said he runs windows
[0:44] <AC`97> tl;dr
[0:44] <axion> mostly though, it makes it easy for you to use your host/full potential less
[0:44] <axion> when all you really need is the penguin
[0:45] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[0:46] <A1B0HPH0B1A> I'm currently running 5 rather aged machines. All with different OSs. I would have abandoned Windows and Mac years ago if it weren't for video games and Photoshop (I am a Photographer by trade).
[0:47] <Gorroth> if it weren't for video games and office, i'd have abandonned windows
[0:47] <Gorroth> i kinda liked macs up until Lion
[0:47] <wizardskills> steam is coming to linux apparently
[0:47] <Gorroth> except i can't build cheap machines and install os x
[0:47] <Gorroth> yeah, i'm looking forward to seeing how steam does
[0:48] <Gorroth> i hope more big devs move over to linux after that
[0:48] * kimitake (~kimitake@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[0:48] <axion> i am running 4, 1 with my own linux, 2 with arch, and one with whatever you wanna call the asus linux thats on the Asus O!Play
[0:48] <thrawed> wizardskills: yes, but I reckon it's only a means to an end for them. They want to build their own hardware platform based on linux.
[0:48] <thrawed> to complete with xbox/ps3 and the likes
[0:48] <Gorroth> hey, i'm down with that
[0:48] <wizardskills> yeah that would be cool
[0:49] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Currently running (Mac Snow Leopard, Win 7, Win XP (for old games), Ubuntu 12.04, Lubuntu 12.04, Raspian, and an unknown BSD).
[0:49] * megrimm (~megrimm@cpe-67-255-16-49.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:49] * PiBot sets mode +v megrimm
[0:49] <thrawed> it's all rumors at this point though
[0:49] <Gorroth> but i'll be building my own linux game system for my TV at some point in the future. just not sure when
[0:49] <Gorroth> has to be powerful enough to emulate a ps3, if there is any sort of emulator out there yet
[0:49] <thrawed> Gorroth: get an ouya
[0:49] <Gorroth> no way
[0:50] <thrawed> Gorroth: ouya + onlive would be able to compete with the ps3
[0:50] <A1B0HPH0B1A> wizardskills: Yes, Steam on Linux. But games will be slow to appear in same way as they have for Mac (Direct X seems to rule roust).
[0:50] * inane (~inane@unaffiliated/inane) Quit ()
[0:50] <A1B0HPH0B1A> For the record... I want to throw my iMac out of the window. I got it for free, so I won't complain.
[0:51] <thrawed> plus, linux already has desura
[0:51] <thrawed> A1B0HPH0B1A: stick boxee on it
[0:51] <Gorroth> ouya isn't real yet, and i don't want to compete with the ps3. i want to run my ps3 games on my device
[0:52] <thrawed> you'll never be able to do that
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[0:52] * PiBot sets mode +v highcenter
[0:52] <axion> i wouldnt say that
[0:52] <mongrelion> A1B0HPH0B1A: throw it here :)
[0:52] <thrawed> they probably have some drm
[0:52] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: Sorry, but I really cannot stand Boxee. I've been using XBMC (on Xbox's no less) for many years, but Boxee just never wants to work for me.
[0:52] <Gorroth> at the very least, i'll be using Steam on it with an XBox controller
[0:52] <thrawed> A1B0HPH0B1A: I say boxee, because it has an app for mac you can just run
[0:53] <Gorroth> at that point, i'll ditch the PS3 stuff if i can't get it working
[0:53] <A1B0HPH0B1A> mongrelion: You really want an iMac with a duff graphics card?
[0:53] <axion> well encryption strength is relative to the cpu time of decryption
[0:53] * MycoRunner (~brady@cpe-74-66-249-170.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:53] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: So does XBMC actually... But my Mac has major issue with video playback due to shonky graphics chipset.
[0:53] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) Quit (Excess Flood)
[0:54] <thrawed> A1B0HPH0B1A: Stick it an oven
[0:54] <thrawed> *in an
[0:54] <OpenSys> anyone used mcp23017 with hd44780 lcd?
[0:54] <axion> i love my asus o!play
[0:55] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: Not really an option as it's all part of the main board.
[0:55] <axion> ARM/linux too :)
[0:55] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * PiBot sets mode +v kkimlabs
[0:56] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:56] * PiBot sets mode +v halfhalo
[0:56] * wizardskills (~root@rogers1271.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[0:58] <dreamer> OpenSys: I'm trying to replicate the hd44780 project using the i2c expander ...
[0:59] <dreamer> http://tech2077.blogspot.com/2012/06/running-hd44780-lcd-over-i2c-on.html << that one
[0:59] <dreamer> but I'm having an issue with the wiring (I think)
[0:59] * sjaak_trekhaak (~sjaak@5249568E.cm-4-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * tzarc (~tzarc@x251-66.tzarc.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * PiBot sets mode +v sjaak_trekhaak
[0:59] * PiBot sets mode +v tzarc
[0:59] <dreamer> I can set the i2c-expander address. and see the address change with i2cdetect
[1:00] * ChanServ sets mode -v sjaak_trekhaak
[1:00] <A1B0HPH0B1A> thrawed: I did consider drilling a hole in front of case and fitting a fan. GPU is conveniently behind the apple logo on front!
[1:00] * tzarc is now known as Guest98842
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[1:01] <bertrik> hm, chicken-egg problem: not noticing there a # in front of overscan_left in config.txt because the overscan hides it :)
[1:01] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-99-23-242-34.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[1:01] * ChanServ sets mode -v Guest98842
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[1:03] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[1:03] <AC`97> ...
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[1:04] <OpenSys> dreamer, right but you use the PCF8574
[1:04] <OpenSys> :)
[1:04] <OpenSys> yummmmmmmmmm wait
[1:04] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:05] <mongrelion> hey guys, I know this is really off topic but do you know any website where you can book hostels without having to leave a deposit/downpayment? :/
[1:05] <OpenSys> i can change the lib
[1:05] <OpenSys> :)
[1:05] * thrawed (~t@unaffiliated/thrawed) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:05] <OpenSys> because i need to set the address
[1:05] <OpenSys> :)
[1:05] <OpenSys> lets try
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[1:06] * PiBot sets mode +v ebswift
[1:06] <IT_Sean> mongrelion, the only hotels that let you make a reservation without a deposit are the sort of no-tell motels you do NOT want to stay in. In this country, anyway.
[1:07] <AC`97> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1sH-r8EyTOwpMz4_zrtutvDJCT4qjt0I9T_QkgwhhNE?feat=directlink i found a new use for the composite jack!
[1:07] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:08] <A1B0HPH0B1A> IT_Sean: lol... nasty... where exactly are you?
[1:10] <mongrelion> IT_Sean: and what country is that?
[1:12] <MasterGeek> Apple <<< lol
[1:13] * MasterGeek wanders off into the mist
[1:13] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Wow...It's got really quiet.
[1:13] * unknownbliss is now known as UKB|Sleep
[1:13] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] * PiBot sets mode +v bertrik
[1:13] <lrusak> AC`97 I can't tell what that is for
[1:14] <AC`97> me neither.
[1:14] <AC`97> i just didn't want to cut another hole in my case
[1:14] <lrusak> haha
[1:15] <lrusak> my case consists of the box that it came in minus some holes I cut in it :D
[1:15] <AC`97> lol
[1:15] <AC`97> i thought about that too :D
[1:16] <axion> cigarette box works good too
[1:16] <AC`97> https://picasaweb.google.com/103853333444314240950/RaspberryPi?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLbrpZ7sjI_BVw&feat=directlink
[1:16] <MasterGeek> who needs a case when you got gaffa tape and glue > http://thepifactory.org/images/piphone/SH102669.JPG
[1:16] <AC`97> i think altoids tin would work too.. after a few small mods
[1:17] <axion> MasterGeek: for portability?
[1:18] <A1B0HPH0B1A> AC97 (can't find backtick on my keyboard)... What exactly is the cable coming out of the composite socket doing?
[1:18] <dreamer> OpenSys: yes :)
[1:18] <AC`97> A1B0HPH0B1A: power input
[1:18] <AC`97> i didn't get the internal power supply finished yet
[1:18] <MasterGeek> rectified mains
[1:19] <AC`97> ....
[1:19] <MasterGeek> 240v
[1:19] <MasterGeek> lol
[1:19] <AC`97> no no, 120
[1:19] <AC`97> "P
[1:19] <AC`97> :P *
[1:20] <A1B0HPH0B1A> AC97... Ah, ok.
[1:20] <A1B0HPH0B1A> 240v is better than 120v!!!
[1:21] <AC`97> i have that in my shop
[1:21] * bluefirecorp (~bluefirec@cpe-98-30-233-211.woh.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:21] <A1B0HPH0B1A> I have 240 in my bedroom!!!
[1:21] <MasterGeek> UK is all 240v
[1:22] <AC`97> danger.
[1:22] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Yeh, I'm in UK too.
[1:22] <lrusak> and 3p 240V is better then 240v :P
[1:22] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Although technically it's probably more like230V.
[1:22] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:22] <MasterGeek> cant see a pi being any use in any 3p equipment
[1:23] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:23] <MasterGeek> maybe a led to know its live
[1:23] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:23] * PiBot sets mode +v gordonDrogon
[1:24] <A1B0HPH0B1A> 230 / 240V ac does have it's advantages... Like you run a dryer, oven, etc on a normal socket.
[1:24] <MasterGeek> \O gordon
[1:24] <chris_99> a normal socket isn't powerful enough to run an oven
[1:24] <gordonDrogon> back from Penzance...
[1:24] <MasterGeek> yer you can stunt small to medium size beasts with 240 No problems
[1:25] <chris_99> off a 13A socket?!
[1:25] <gordonDrogon> not sure what I've dropped into, but I run an oven from a normal 230v ... socket..
[1:25] <plugwash> you can run a single oven off a 13A socket
[1:25] <gordonDrogon> it's the hotplates that suck the current on a typical electric cooker.
[1:25] <plugwash> a double oven or hob requires considerbally more power
[1:25] <A1B0HPH0B1A> chris_99: it is if it's a low power high efficiency ultra green one. Ours came with a plug on it.
[1:25] * virunga (~virunga@ Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[1:25] <chris_99> interesting
[1:26] <chris_99> our's can't be very green then
[1:26] <chris_99> as it has it's own circuit
[1:26] <gordonDrogon> just the oven or whole cooker?
[1:26] <chris_99> the oven
[1:26] <chris_99> it's gas up top
[1:26] <plugwash> is it a double oven?
[1:26] <chris_99> nope
[1:26] <chris_99> just an old oven
[1:27] <plugwash> it's also possible that it could run off a 13A plug but just wasn't wired that way for some reasons
[1:27] <plugwash> and finally there are a lot of european import single ovens that require just slightly too much power for a 13A socket
[1:27] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Ours is a single oven with a gas hob.
[1:27] * elspuddy (~elspuddy@cpc5-rdng22-2-0-cust607.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:27] * PiBot sets mode +v elspuddy
[1:28] <chris_99> hmm, now i'm intrigued what wattage element is in it
[1:28] <MasterGeek> 3-5kw
[1:29] <A1B0HPH0B1A> plugwash: This is true. Plus, apparently central euopean system is rated for 16A but I doubt the plugs would take it... Granted, UK system is massively over-engineered.
[1:29] <dreamer> oh wewt, I got it working. the wiring was indeed a little strange ..
[1:29] <elspuddy> hi, im tryiing to get that rasbcontrole to run, iv tryed seting up an fpt server to upload the files to, but each time i try to upload a file it give me an error "553 could not create file" any idears on how to fix this ?
[1:29] * octaviordz (~orc@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:29] * PiBot sets mode +v octaviordz
[1:29] * plugwash doesn't see any reason why a german or french plug wouldn't take 16A provided it's well made
[1:29] * kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle
[1:29] <plugwash> there are much smaller connectors out there that can take more current
[1:30] <chris_99> yeah you need a funky circle plug in the uk for > 13A
[1:30] * octaviordz (~orc@ has left #raspberrypi
[1:30] <MasterGeek> well oven outlets are a little different to the normal plug socket17A rated and sit on a 20A rcd
[1:30] * plugwash thinks of the neutrik powercon which is the size of an XLR and can take 20A
[1:30] <chris_99> i'm gonna need a 32A plug soon i think, for a 7KW element
[1:31] <chris_99> (for brewing)
[1:31] <lrusak> are you all from the UK or what? all we have (more or less) is 120v and 240v plugs
[1:31] <MasterGeek> http://static.yourspares.co.uk/media/p/sky/400/l/429723.jpg
[1:31] <plugwash> lrusak, IIRC in the US there are a whole load of plug types arround though some are more common than others
[1:31] <MasterGeek> Yer UK Here
[1:32] <A1B0HPH0B1A> chris_99: Brewing? I've got 2 small batches of Apple Cider on the go.
[1:32] <lrusak> in canada here
[1:32] <lrusak> basically two plugs for households
[1:32] <chris_99> A1B0HPH0B1A, nice :) i'm into beer brewing at the mo'
[1:32] <lrusak> I think there are couple more for commercial/industrial
[1:33] <A1B0HPH0B1A> chris_99: I'm actually considering starting my own brewery in about a year when I've saved up. But it's a bit of a pipe dream right now.
[1:34] <A1B0HPH0B1A> lrusak: Aren't there those 240V connectors for dryers where it's really 2 phase?
[1:34] * loadbang (~loadbang@host81-159-229-149.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: loadbang)
[1:34] <chris_99> A1B0HPH0B1A, cool, what size are you thinking?
[1:34] <MasterGeek> yer problem with home brewing is you end up like this http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs37/f/2008/263/c/f/Seth_the_brewer_man_by_Nofby.jpg
[1:34] <chris_99> haha, what the hell is that
[1:35] <MasterGeek> random stuff
[1:35] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:35] <A1B0HPH0B1A> chris_99: Micro, maybe nano! Currently consider myself a Pico Brewery. Particularly when you consider my cider brew is in 2 2L Pepsi bottles (trying different yeasts).
[1:35] <gordonDrogon> chris_99, you'll need a commando socket and a sparky to fit it ...
[1:36] <chris_99> my dad's pretty good with electrics thankfully
[1:36] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::80d) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:36] <gordonDrogon> that's fine, but you might need to comply with Part P, etc. if you want to stay legal and insured )-:
[1:36] <chris_99> A1B0HPH0B1A, nice i'm brewing ginger beer in a 4L bottle
[1:36] <chris_99> yeah i've just heard of Part P
[1:37] <chris_99> he's wired up the rest of the house i think
[1:37] <chris_99> so i'm not sure how that works
[1:37] <gordonDrogon> just more paperwork )-:
[1:37] <gordonDrogon> and cost )-:
[1:37] <chris_99> yeah :(
[1:37] * Orion__ (~Orion_@ Quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
[1:37] <gordonDrogon> but a 7KW element? That's for a BIG mash...
[1:37] <A1B0HPH0B1A> chris_99: Yeh, Ginger beer is on the todo list. Unfortunately it's not really one I drink so the family are guinea pigs.
[1:38] <chris_99> yup, i've got a 200L barrel
[1:38] <gordonDrogon> wow...
[1:38] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:38] <gordonDrogon> I have a 300L hot water tank, so I can gauge the size of that.
[1:38] * marcusw used to make ginger beer in a 2L in the corner of the kitchen countertop
[1:38] <MasterGeek> did i hear P*A*R*T*Y ?
[1:38] <marcusw> it was awesome
[1:38] <chris_99> did you use a ginger beer plant marcusw?
[1:39] <gordonDrogon> zed time for me I think.
[1:39] <A1B0HPH0B1A> I do love how this has entirely become about beer now... Who cares about the Raspberry Pi, someone mentioned beer!
[1:39] <chris_99> hehe sorry
[1:40] * TimRiker (TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) Quit (Quit: This space intentionally left blank)
[1:40] <chris_99> i'm thinking of using the RPi to control some of my brewing equipment
[1:41] <chris_99> as it'd be cool to log the temperature of stuff using it
[1:41] * boomtakzaag (~boomtakza@5352C0B4.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: boomtakzaag)
[1:41] <MasterGeek> So anyhoo, i see samsung have just releasd the Quad Core A8 with Quad mali dev board
[1:41] <MasterGeek> v nice
[1:41] <chris_99> linky?
[1:43] <chris_99> i just found farnell seemingly have free shipping :)
[1:43] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-99-23-242-34.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[1:45] <A1B0HPH0B1A> chris_99: That's not a bad idea that. I've got too many ideas for RasPi. And I really want them to release the Model A so my RasPi laptop doesn't need to power the Ethernet.
[1:45] <chris_99> RPi laptop?
[1:46] <A1B0HPH0B1A> chris_99: Yeh, I just finished the electronics... Using it now. It's based on the Motorola Lapdock.
[1:47] <MasterGeek> http://vr-zone.com/articles/samsung-announces-the-first-arm-cortex-a15-based-soc/14101.html
[1:47] <MasterGeek> only 1030 pin to route out
[1:48] <chris_99> A1B0HPH0B1A, cool :)
[1:48] <A1B0HPH0B1A> chris_99: I'd put up a link... But my trackpad has just packed in.
[1:48] <chris_99> MasterGeek, ah thought it'd be a dev. board
[1:49] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::217) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:49] * PiBot sets mode +v plugwash
[1:50] <MasterGeek> http://liliputing.com/2012/08/origen-4-quad-a-development-board-with-samsung-exynos-4412.html
[1:50] <MasterGeek> The system board includes a 1.4 GHz quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 processor, 1GB of RAM, HDMI, Ethernet, USB, and SD card connectors, along with support for add-ons including a camera board, WiFi, Bluetooth, and GPS, and audio.
[1:50] <MasterGeek> A basic board plus an audio sub-board runs $199. Or for $469 loaded
[1:51] <MasterGeek> lol
[1:51] <A1B0HPH0B1A> I'm gonna quit out for a mo... Be backsoon.
[1:51] <chris_99> seems pretty good for $200 i guess
[1:52] * A1B0HPH0B1A (~A1B0HPH0B@placebo.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:52] <megrimm> hey ??? anyone try one of these with RPI? http://www.amazon.com/External-Bus-powered-Interface-Compatible-Operating/dp/B0069L9PZA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
[1:52] <plugwash> if only it had more ram and native sata..........
[1:53] <MasterGeek> Compatible with All Major Operating System Withou Driver for Windows 98se/me/2000/xp/2003/vista/win 7/linux/macos
[1:55] <megrimm> or this one I'm looking at too: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-3-5mm-Jack-Audio-Adapter/dp/B0058P0I2C/ref=sr_1_94?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1345074568&sr=1-94&keywords=linux
[1:56] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[1:57] * markbook (~markllama@pool-74-104-180-140.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:57] * PiBot sets mode +v markbook
[1:58] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:58] * PiBot sets mode +v iMatttt
[1:58] * A1B0HPH0B1A (~A1B0HPH0B@placebo.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:58] * PiBot sets mode +v A1B0HPH0B1A
[1:58] <A1B0HPH0B1A> I return... Had to turn it off and on again!
[1:59] * markbook (~markllama@pool-74-104-180-140.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[1:59] * markbook (~markllama@pool-74-104-180-140.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:59] * PiBot sets mode +v markbook
[1:59] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@Tom4u/founder/tomtiger11) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[2:03] * snuffeluffegus (~snuffeluf@98.sub-166-248-81.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:03] * PiBot sets mode +v snuffeluffegus
[2:05] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Gonna turn in, it's just gone 1am here.
[2:05] * aphadke (~Adium@c-71-198-5-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:05] * A1B0HPH0B1A (~A1B0HPH0B@placebo.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:05] * PiBot sets mode +v aphadke
[2:05] * D34TH (D34TH@unaffiliated/d34th) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[2:07] * shadylog (~shadylog@195-241-28-14.ip.telfort.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:09] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[2:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Gaddel
[2:11] * Lord_DeathMatch (Lord_Death@CPE-58-164-167-4.lnse4.woo.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[2:11] <Gaddel> does anyone know if any stores in the US might supply 5V rechargeable battery packs for a pi?
[2:12] * harish (~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:14] * itrekkie (~mt2@ip68-2-182-16.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:14] * PiBot sets mode +v itrekkie
[2:15] <itrekkie> hi all???has anyone seen dd complain something like /dev/rdisk3: Invalid argument, but still say the image was transferred?
[2:15] <itrekkie> OS X 10.8 h??re, unmounted the card, looks like the right place to write to
[2:16] * snuffeluffegus (~snuffeluf@98.sub-166-248-81.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[2:20] <itrekkie> ah, I'm embarrassed to say I was trying to write the zip, that fixed that problem :)
[2:25] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-99-23-242-34.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[2:26] * ameoba (~sean@c-24-22-33-249.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:26] * ameoba (~sean@c-24-22-33-249.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:26] * PiBot sets mode +v ameoba
[2:29] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:31] <MasterGeek> itrekkie, that shoud do it for 8 hours or more >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-12V-DC-USB-5V-Rechargeable-Lithium-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-for-CCTV-Camera-/290754042388?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item43b24a9a14#ht_3720wt_1141
[2:32] * inane (~inane@unaffiliated/inane) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:32] * PiBot sets mode +v inane
[2:32] * iMatttt (~imatttt@cpc4-farn4-0-0-cust34.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:34] * aphadke (~Adium@c-71-198-5-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[2:35] * M3nti0n|off is now known as M3nti0n
[2:35] <dreamer> ok, wewt. I have an mpd-status lcd-thingy on my raspi \o/
[2:42] * klm[_] (milkman@unaffiliated/klm-/x-7727058) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:42] * PiBot sets mode +v klm[_]
[2:54] * Timmmaaaayyy (~Timmmaaaa@ Quit (Quit: Timmmaaaayyy)
[2:54] * M3nti0n is now known as M3nti0n|off
[2:57] * kaptainkibosh (~kaptainki@unaffiliated/kaptainkibosh) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:57] * PiBot sets mode +v kaptainkibosh
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[2:57] * PiBot sets mode +v peejay_
[3:00] <Jungle-Boogie> upon attempting to install raspbmc, i receive an error message during the firmware download: usb disconnected, device number 2
[3:01] <Jungle-Boogie> this is with the most recent raspbmc
[3:01] <Jungle-Boogie> this an issue anyone else experienced?
[3:02] * ebswift (kvirc@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:03] * Timmmaaaayyy (~Timmmaaaa@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:03] * PiBot sets mode +v Timmmaaaayyy
[3:04] * IT_Sean (~IT_Sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[3:05] * uen| (~uen@p5DCB2BB3.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:05] * PiBot sets mode +v uen|
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[3:07] * PiBot sets mode +v JMichaelX
[3:09] * uen (~uen@p5DCB369A.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[3:09] * uen| is now known as uen
[3:18] <Jungle-Boogie> update: i am getting further along with installing the img file, not using the python script. the the pi is now installing rootfs
[3:19] * Borgso (~nirox@unaffiliated/borgso) Quit ()
[3:20] * mikey_w (~mike@va-76-6-216-109.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:20] * PiBot sets mode +v mikey_w
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[3:21] * PiBot sets mode +v hyperair
[3:22] * inane (~inane@unaffiliated/inane) Quit ()
[3:22] * ka6sox-farfarawa is now known as ka6sox-away
[3:23] * Quietlyawesome94 (~chatzilla@adsl-074-184-089-183.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:23] * PiBot sets mode +v Quietlyawesome94
[3:23] * Potn (potnhbug@nat/u-szeged/x-ospcpktqvorwdcwm) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:23] * Timmmaaaayyy (~Timmmaaaa@ Quit (Quit: Timmmaaaayyy)
[3:28] * highcenter (~highcente@unaffiliated/highcenter) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:31] * PiBot sets mode +v ebarch
[3:34] * AC`97 (~pzzt@50-0-74-107.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:40] * JMichaelX (~james@ Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[3:41] * Ishpeck (~ishpeck@67-222-225-246.static.orml012.digis.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Ishpeck
[3:42] <Jungle-Boogie> even though the rootfs was installed, raspbmc reports it cannot connect to the update server and requests a reboot. after rebooting, the pi does nothing
[3:42] * birdontophat (~a@host-92-28-200-95.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:42] * PiBot sets mode +v birdontophat
[3:43] * Ishpeck (~ishpeck@67-222-225-246.static.orml012.digis.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[3:44] * Ishpeck (~ishpeck@67-222-225-246.static.orml012.digis.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[3:44] * PiBot sets mode +v Ishpeck
[3:45] * Ishpeck (~ishpeck@67-222-225-246.static.orml012.digis.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[3:45] * PiBot sets mode +v JMichaelX
[3:46] * Ishpeck (~ishpeck@67-222-225-246.static.orml012.digis.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:46] * PiBot sets mode +v Ishpeck
[3:48] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::217) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:49] * Jungle-Boogie (~Jungle-Bo@unaffiliated/jungle-boogie) Quit (Quit: supoort jupiterbroadcasting.com)
[3:51] * ]DMackey[ (~DMackey@ord-69-171-163-251.evdo.leapwireless.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:51] * PiBot sets mode +v inane
[3:51] <]DMackey[> Ordered my Raspberry Pi lastnight from Element14... now the waiting part...
[3:56] <bircoe> It's worth the wait!
[3:58] * Remowylliams (~mare@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:58] * PiBot sets mode +v Remowylliams
[3:59] <]DMackey[> I'm a Microcontroller Noob so this should be fun.
[3:59] <Remowylliams> Hello all, what is a safe, non junkware software to use on Windows 7 to copy an image to a sd please? the Wiki page is touting Win32DiskImager that throws no less than 5 pieces of junkware on the computer.
[4:00] <TeeCee> Win32DiskImager is junk-free... At least a couple of weeks ago, when I downloaded it..
[4:00] <]DMackey[> Tnx for letting me know that. I was going to download it when I got home tonight.
[4:01] <TeeCee> However, I didn't get it to work on my Windows machine, so had to use dd...
[4:01] <]DMackey[> Trying to get prepped and ahead of the game so when the Pi arrives, I'm ready to go quick like
[4:01] * DanyO83 (me@mctnnbsa59w-156034049036.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOP.nb.bellaliant.net) Quit ()
[4:01] <]DMackey[> TeeCee, I can use dd if I have to, I have a linux machine running so I'm good there.
[4:02] <Remowylliams> TeeCee: thanks well they've replaced it with Something that uses the OptimumInstaller
[4:02] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:02] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:02] * PiBot sets mode +v Behold
[4:02] <]DMackey[> I installed some software then turned around and removed the bloatware with Malwarebytes
[4:02] <bircoe> ]DMackey[, technically the Pi is not a Microcontroller
[4:02] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) Quit (Excess Flood)
[4:03] * aphadke (~Adium@c-71-198-5-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:03] * PiBot sets mode +v aphadke
[4:03] <]DMackey[> What would it be then?
[4:03] <TeeCee> Remowylliams: Did you get it from https://launchpad.net/win32-image-writer/0.6/0.6/+download/win32diskimager-binary.zip ?
[4:04] <bircoe> It has more in common with a computer then a MCU
[4:04] <bircoe> think of it as a phone/tablet without the lcd screen and GSM hardware
[4:04] <]DMackey[> I can go with that.
[4:04] <]DMackey[> A nice little piece of hardware, I'm just surprised they didn't put VGA on it.
[4:05] <Remowylliams> TeeCee: I got the link from the eLinux.org Wiki page for setting up SD http://elinux.org/RPi_Easy_SD_Card_Setup
[4:05] <]DMackey[> Luckly I have a large LCD TV with hdmi.
[4:05] <bircoe> Arduino is a MCU in that you can directly program the MCU with code that it executes, Raspberry Pi boots an Operating system
[4:05] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:05] * PiBot sets mode +v halfhalo
[4:05] <Remowylliams> ]DMackey[: the analog would require DAC's that takes up lots more space and silicon
[4:06] <bircoe> VGA would have needed another chip that can do DVI/HDMI to VGA conversion... would have raised the cost of the device, the foundation were looking to make these things as cheap as possible.
[4:06] <]DMackey[> By the looks of it, not much space to do much else other than what is already on there.
[4:07] <TeeCee> Remowylliams: Hmm... Try that URL I sent you... It's a bare ZIP-file with no installer... Just unzip and run Win32DiskImager.exe...
[4:07] <Remowylliams> ]DMackey[: yup it's a tidy little board
[4:07] <Remowylliams> TeeCee: thanks muchly really.
[4:08] <bircoe> except for the MicroUSB to power it... I hate that with a passion!
[4:09] <]DMackey[> I wonder why the heck they did that, maybe because there are a lot of AC to USB adapter Wallwarts
[4:09] <bircoe> precisely
[4:10] <]DMackey[> I have a rather large collection in the parts drawer myself.
[4:10] <bircoe> same... but find that they're not as reliable as the USB group would have you believe
[4:10] <bircoe> the USB connector that is
[4:11] * kokakoda (kokakoda@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-nfrvgyluybljnkbr) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:11] * PiBot sets mode +v kokakoda
[4:11] <]DMackey[> If I have to, I could make a PSU with a 7805 and the needed usb cable.
[4:11] * itrekkie (~mt2@ip68-2-182-16.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: itrekkie)
[4:11] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:11] <]DMackey[> Ahh yeah the connector, I have seen them go bad/get broke on some stuff out there.
[4:12] <]DMackey[> you have to be gentle with them. Not great at taking abuse.
[4:12] <bircoe> Of course you could, I intend on making a small switch mode using this:
[4:12] <bircoe> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&vendor=811&mpart=OKI-78SR-5%2F1.5-W36-C&cur=USD
[4:13] <]DMackey[> looking...
[4:13] <bircoe> 7 to 36vdc input with 5v out @ 1.5A
[4:14] <bircoe> power it from any psu you have laying around that is +7v
[4:14] <]DMackey[> Nice, about what a 7805 can handle... That device probably doesn't generate as much heat I would think.
[4:14] <bircoe> I'd expect not even close!
[4:15] <]DMackey[> Hmmm, that would also work great for my Breadboard PSU also.
[4:16] <bircoe> they are supposed to be a drop in replacement for 78xx's, as in they're pin compatible
[4:16] <]DMackey[> Added to my "Parts to Purchase" list. Tnx
[4:16] <bircoe> I have one of those :)
[4:16] <bircoe> It's very long!!!!
[4:16] <]DMackey[> ROFL, Yeah my has grown lately, I purchased a large lot of breadboards on ebay so now I can PLAY a bit more.
[4:17] * baozich (~baozich@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:17] * PiBot sets mode +v baozich
[4:18] <]DMackey[> THis LOT here, http://www.ebay.com/itm/280923978278
[4:18] * nid0 (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) Quit ()
[4:18] <]DMackey[> I had 3 small boards I was switching between, that was getting old quick.
[4:19] <bircoe> that is allot of breadboards!!!
[4:19] <bircoe> if you wanna sell soem let me know :)
[4:20] <]DMackey[> Heh, heck no I'm gonna use em. Tons of little projectspace to play with now.
[4:20] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-99-23-242-34.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:20] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[4:20] <bircoe> well that blows!
[4:20] * birdontophat (~a@host-92-28-200-95.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:21] <]DMackey[> I couldnt actually believe I won them, I threw down a $100 bin in the closing minutes..
[4:21] <bircoe> anyhoo... I need to go and *try* and swap this serpentine belt on my little Audi
[4:21] <Remowylliams> TeeCee: Thanks that file is working just fine and nothing angry err nothing added to my machine to make me angry.
[4:21] <]DMackey[> Have fun, I gotta get back to work myself
[4:21] <]DMackey[> Yeah TeeCee, Tnx for that link, I grabbed it also
[4:22] <TeeCee> No problem... I wonder though what link you where using before...
[4:22] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-99-23-242-34.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:23] * aphadke (~Adium@c-71-198-5-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[4:26] <Remowylliams> if you go to the wikipage I gave this is the page it's on.
[4:26] <Remowylliams> http://elinux.org/RPi_Easy_SD_Card_Setup
[4:28] <TeeCee> Hmm... I still can't find any references to ImageWriter there other than the one I gave you...
[4:28] * joxer (~fracchio@li474-10.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:28] * PiBot sets mode +v joxer
[4:28] <Gaddel> hi, i have a logitech USB speaker hooked up to my pi. dmesg seems to show it being online, and the light on the speaker is on, but audio won't seem to play out of it
[4:29] <Gaddel> is there any special setting or command i need to use to set that as my audio device?
[4:29] <TeeCee> Gaddel: You using Raspbian?
[4:33] * highcenter (~highcente@unaffiliated/highcenter) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:33] * PiBot sets mode +v highcenter
[4:35] <TeeCee> Gaddel: sudo amixer cset numid=3 1
[4:35] <TeeCee> ref. http://elinux.org/R-Pi_Troubleshooting#Sound
[4:37] <clever> TeeCee: sudo shouldnt be needed there
[4:37] <clever> as long as your in the audio group
[4:37] <TeeCee> True
[4:37] <joxer> who want to try a wiimote connection on the raspberry?
[4:37] <joxer> i've made a script to do it.
[4:38] <clever> joxer: mail a wiimote and i'll try it!
[4:38] <joxer> lol
[4:38] <joxer> sure
[4:38] <joxer> a wiimote is expensive
[4:39] <TeeCee> joxer: Needs BT-dongle, right?
[4:39] <clever> hmmm, cec is still bugering up
[4:39] <joxer> clever btw it's very useful when you want to sit in front of your television and surf the internet
[4:39] <joxer> TeeCee sure
[4:39] <joxer> it's bluetooth
[4:39] <clever> joxer: yeah, i can see how it would be
[4:39] <clever> joxer: currently, i have a cheap usb ir remote
[4:39] <TeeCee> joxer: So you made it act as a cursor?
[4:39] <clever> it claims to be a usb keyboard/mouse
[4:39] <joxer> TeeCee yes
[4:39] <TeeCee> Sweet
[4:40] <bircoe> joxer, send it my way...
[4:40] <joxer> TeeCee with motion plus or with nunchuk
[4:40] <joxer> i'll implement the irda solution later
[4:40] <clever> joxer: irda?
[4:40] <joxer> bircoe joxer.github.com/Will/
[4:40] <joxer> <clever> joxer: currently, i have a cheap usb ir remote
[4:40] <bircoe> cheers
[4:40] <joxer> ir isn't irda?
[4:40] <clever> ah thats not irda, just normal remote ir
[4:40] <joxer> i see.
[4:40] <clever> 44khz usualy, either on or off
[4:41] <clever> ive seen some lirc projects already for the pi
[4:41] <clever> *looks*
[4:41] <joxer> clever but the wiimote is far superior
[4:41] <clever> of course it is
[4:41] <joxer> you can change it to a joypad in any moment
[4:41] <joxer> and play snes/mame what else
[4:42] <clever> cec can do most of that too, via the tv's remote
[4:42] <joxer> it's not the same :3
[4:42] <clever> joxer: https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/pull/38
[4:42] <joxer> a tv's remote doesn't have accelerometer
[4:42] <clever> yeah
[4:42] <clever> but snes systems cant handle that anyways :P
[4:43] <clever> all depends on what you need
[4:43] <joxer> wut
[4:43] <joxer> what do you mean by they can't handle
[4:43] * ReggieUK (~ReggieUK@5aca5630.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[4:43] <clever> the snes console never had accelerometers
[4:43] <joxer> yeah but you can use it to emulate control keys
[4:46] <joxer> bircoe do you like the page?
[4:46] <joxer> is the english correct? i'm italian
[4:48] <bircoe> I do, but have to take a drive to a mechanic at the moment... stupid cars breaking all the time!
[4:49] <joxer> gh
[4:49] <joxer> don't worry
[4:49] <joxer> i'll put it on the forum one day
[4:49] <bircoe> i'll let you know later
[4:49] <joxer> when it will be completed
[4:49] <joxer> thanks
[4:53] <xiambax> Are raspberry pi cases really needed?
[4:55] <joxer> xiambax i use a paper folder
[4:55] <xiambax> http://0xyjin.tumblr.com/ think i may order from this guy
[4:55] <xiambax> his design is open source
[4:55] <xiambax> so i respect that
[4:59] * SSilver2k2 (~Adium@50-89-241-213.res.bhn.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:59] * PiBot sets mode +v SSilver2k2
[4:59] <SSilver2k2> lo all
[5:00] <TeeCee> hi
[5:00] <joxer> hello
[5:00] <SSilver2k2> hows it going
[5:03] <Essobi> Meh.. I need a 3v3 ttl to serial cable..
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[5:05] * MjrTom (MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:05] * markbook whispers "Nokia CR-48 + 13x2 IDC female connector"
[5:15] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[5:21] <mranostay> kinky
[5:22] * muep (twingo@otitsun.oulu.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[5:23] <Remowylliams> woot and another pi is warm and it's goodness enjoyed. thanks everyone
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[5:30] * PiBot sets mode +v sjaak_trekhaak
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[5:30] * PiBot sets mode +v lrusak
[5:31] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) Quit (*.net *.split)
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[5:33] * Milos|Netbook_ is now known as Milos|Netbook
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[5:33] * PiBot sets mode +v Pulser
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[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v halfhalo
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v kcj
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v elgrecoFL
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Big-Al
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v scrts
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Slippern
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v M0RBD
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v Cheery
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v invzim
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v xmlich02
[5:36] * PiBot sets mode +v nicdev
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[5:42] <mrdragons> Botspam
[5:43] <Gaddel> TeeCee: i tried amixer cset numid=3 1, didn't seem to change anything
[5:43] <Gaddel> is there a way to analyze connected USB devices?
[5:45] <TeeCee> Gaddel: lsusb perhaps?
[5:45] <Gaddel> thanks, that did it. it appears the speakers aren't appearing there, though they are in dmesg...
[5:46] <TeeCee> Aah, I thought you where using the built in analogue audio channel...sorry
[5:46] <Gaddel> TeeCee: no sorry, this is a USB logitech speaker
[5:47] * markbook (~markllama@pool-74-104-180-140.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[5:48] * highcenter (~highcente@unaffiliated/highcenter) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:49] <Gaddel> http://pastebin.com/NiD3hHL1
[5:49] <Gaddel> seems it's disconnecting as soon as it's recognized?
[5:50] <TeeCee> Yes...
[5:50] <TeeCee> Don't know why though...
[5:50] <Gaddel> happens every time i do it. oddly, the light stays on on the speaker though while it's plugged in
[5:50] <Gaddel> the connectivity light
[5:53] <bircoe> Gaddel, plugged directly into the pi or via a powered hub... or do they have their own seperate power supply?
[5:53] <Gaddel> bircoe: plugged directly into the pi. is that bad?
[5:53] <bircoe> yep
[5:53] <Gaddel> welp.
[5:53] <bircoe> not enough power
[5:53] <Gaddel> ahhh
[5:53] <Gaddel> it shouldn't harm the pi though, right?
[5:53] <bircoe> Pi's USB ports are limited to 140ma... those things probably want more
[5:54] <bircoe> no won't harm the pi
[5:54] <bircoe> they are protected via a self resetting fuse
[5:54] <Gaddel> great, thanks
[5:54] <Gaddel> that would explain it
[5:54] * bircoe nods
[5:54] <Gaddel> i'll just use some regular analog speakers i suppose
[6:02] * Gaddel (~h@unaffiliated/gaddel) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[6:05] * PiBot sets mode +v Gabtendo
[6:07] * Commander1024 (~Commander@Commander1024-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Quit: Bye bye)
[6:10] * Commander1024 (~Commander@Commander1024-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:10] * PiBot sets mode +v Commander1024
[6:10] * ]DMackey[ (~DMackey@ord-69-171-163-251.evdo.leapwireless.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:17] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[6:18] * Simon- (simon@proxima.lp0.eu) Quit ()
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[6:20] * PiBot sets mode +v ]DMackey[
[6:20] <]DMackey[> Damn crappy connection!
[6:21] <TeeCee> +1
[6:29] * TeeCee (~lirX@unaffiliated/teecee) Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[6:30] * PiBot sets mode +v TeeCee
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[7:00] <mrdragons> heh, ever since I've started turning off my desktop and laptop my room's gotten noticably cooler
[7:01] <lrusak> happens
[7:03] * Quietlyawesome94 (~chatzilla@adsl-074-184-089-183.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 14.0.1/20120722203403])
[7:04] * JMichaelX (~james@ Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[7:12] * PiBot sets mode +v DarkTherapy
[7:12] <DarkTherapy> morning
[7:15] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:15] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
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[7:19] * PiBot sets mode +v highcenter
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[7:32] * PiBot sets mode +v hyperair
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[7:33] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[7:33] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[7:34] * DarkTherapy (~darkther4@ Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[7:35] * shayla_ (~pi@gateway/tor-sasl/shayla) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[7:35] * PiBot sets mode +v shayla
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[7:39] * PiBot sets mode +v DMackey
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[7:54] * drago757 (~drago757@pool-173-66-123-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: drago757)
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[7:55] * PiBot sets mode +v sundancer
[7:55] <dennistlg> god morning guys
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[7:57] * PiBot sets mode +v pretty_function
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[8:06] * PiBot sets mode +v Weaselweb
[8:12] * axion (~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:12] <clever> dennistlg: morning
[8:12] <clever> just got lirc recieve working on my pi :)
[8:14] <dennistlg> nice
[8:15] <dennistlg> have a dvb-t stick with ir remote
[8:15] <clever> just using a bare ir reciever here
[8:16] <clever> directly on the gpio header, 3v3, gpio17, gnd
[8:16] <clever> worked instantly with the lirc_rpi module :)
[8:16] <clever> tx didnt work initialy, but after changing it to libgpio it appears to work, no led hooked up yet
[8:16] <dennistlg> nice
[8:18] <clever> the driver was using raw gpio calls, and may not play nice with other things
[8:18] <clever> and def isnt getting exclusive access
[8:18] * DMackey (~n2dvm@cpe-74-71-43-184.twcny.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Irving Gould Blows Monkey Fish!!)
[8:19] <dennistlg> the next i will connect is a monocrome display stolen from a nokia 3310 cellphone
[8:19] <dennistlg> it has spi
[8:19] * DMackey (~n2dvm@cpe-74-71-43-184.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:19] * PiBot sets mode +v DMackey
[8:20] <dennistlg> but at this moment i dont know a lot about spi and i2c stuff
[8:21] * fakker (fakker@unaffiliated/fakker) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:21] * PiBot sets mode +v fakker
[8:22] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[8:22] * PiBot sets mode +v baozich
[8:23] <clever> dennistlg: done recording the ir codes for my cheap ir remote
[8:23] <clever> its now upgraded from a fake usb keyboard, to a proper lirc device!
[8:23] <dennistlg> ;-)
[8:24] <clever> dennistlg: now i can clearly see how the numlock key worked
[8:24] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:24] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[8:24] <clever> it changes a mode in the reciever, the remote is completely dumb
[8:24] <clever> and with no status led on the reciever, its imposible to tell which of the 3 modes i'm in
[8:25] <clever> and lircd doesnt support it, so all the buttons just do one thing :D
[8:26] * axion (~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:26] * PiBot sets mode +v axion
[8:26] <clever> dennistlg: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10266
[8:34] <dennistlg> nice in germany people can buy such a diode for under 1?
[8:34] <Essobi> Yay, tty console is up
[8:34] * Streakfury (Streakfury@ has joined #raspberrypi
[8:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Streakfury
[8:35] <dennistlg> do you plan to make a tutorial side how to conect and driver stuff?
[8:36] * alexBr (~alex@p5B09FCD7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:36] * PiBot sets mode +v alexBr
[8:37] <clever> dennistlg: theres already a pull-request for the driver, ive added my own with the gpio changes
[8:38] <clever> if that goes thru, its as simple as installing the lirc package and doing modprobe lirc_rpi
[8:38] <clever> dennistlg: https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/pull/38 https://github.com/ar0n/linux/pull/1
[8:38] * marcusw (~marcus@marcusw-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[8:38] <dennistlg> ok
[8:39] * marcusw (~marcus@marcusw-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:39] * PiBot sets mode +v marcusw
[8:39] <clever> ar0n said 2 months ago that he would fix it up to use libgpio, but i havent seen anything since
[8:39] * highcenter (~highcente@unaffiliated/highcenter) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[8:41] * PiBot sets mode +v DarkTherapy
[8:45] <clever> dennistlg: http://iguanaworks.net/wp-content/uploads/products/series-transceiver/serial-schematic.pdf
[8:45] <clever> dennistlg: neat, supercap power!
[8:45] <clever> seems to be using a 0.33 farad cap to power the tx led, so it doesnt overload the serial port
[8:45] <clever> though the pi can probly drive more curent then a standard serial port
[8:46] <clever> serial was never even meant to give power, the schematic pulls from a data line
[8:47] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:11] * PiBot sets mode +v harbaum
[9:14] * dennistlg (~snakefrea@e176155171.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[9:43] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
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[9:47] * PiBot sets mode +v loadbang
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[9:49] * nio (~niobird@dslb-178-007-188-155.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:49] * PiBot sets mode +v nio
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[10:00] * jolo2 (~jolo2@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[10:01] * PiBot sets mode +v harish
[10:01] * SolderPI (~SolderPI@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:01] * btcbuy314 (~dan@pool-108-11-151-128.eriepa.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[10:05] <bircoe> clever, what does that schematic do?
[10:05] * Meatballs|Away is now known as Meatballs
[10:09] <clever> bircoe: its an ir blaster i found following links from the lirc_rpi project
[10:09] <clever> it seems that it works around the limited power (none acording to specs) on rs232 ports
[10:09] <clever> though the pi has a proper 5v header with a decent supply
[10:11] <nio> i finally ordered my fpga and i can pick it up today ... all it can do now is mining bitcoin 200Mhas/s for 15 Watt (10 watt the FPGA and 5 Watt the Raspberry that controlls it) ... what else is possible with an fpga board connected to the pi?
[10:11] * Syliss (~Home@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:11] * PiBot sets mode +v Syliss
[10:12] * tcial (~tcial@cpc1-pres13-2-0-cust571.pres.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:12] * PiBot sets mode +v tcial
[10:12] <clever> nio: driving various lcd panels (like those stolen off a laptop) without the aid of the videocore
[10:12] <clever> nio: spdif audio out
[10:13] <clever> (2 projects ive just tried on a bare pi, but found out the gpio just cant go fast enough)
[10:13] * tcial (~tcial@cpc1-pres13-2-0-cust571.pres.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:13] * UKB|Sleep is now known as unknownbliss
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[10:13] * PiBot sets mode +v Kevin_D
[10:14] * Essobi (~Essobi@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[10:17] * nio (~niobird@dslb-178-007-188-155.pools.arcor-ip.net) has left #raspberrypi
[10:17] <gordonDrogon> morning...
[10:18] <gordonDrogon> here is a challenge... get power and control to 32 LEDs on the spoke of a bicycle wheel...
[10:20] * mlong_home (~mlong@ Quit ()
[10:21] <techsurvivor> balanced battery pack with rechargeable batteries ? :D
[10:22] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:22] * PiBot sets mode +v BCMM
[10:22] <techsurvivor> http://www.instructables.com/id/LED-bicycle-wheels/ kind of like this?
[10:23] * xCP23x (~Chris@188-221-134-151.zone12.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[10:24] * Shrik3 (shrike@kapsi.fi) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[10:24] <Jck_true> I'm still mad abou tmy 8x8LED matrix i bought - Don't know how i could misread it as having some sort of controller
[10:26] <gordonDrogon> techsurvivor, interesting - it's for a persistence of vision project, but I never thought of batteries - not too practical, however...
[10:26] <gordonDrogon> Jck_true, what's up with it?
[10:26] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-12.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:26] * PiBot sets mode +v MikeJ1971
[10:26] <techsurvivor> you would definitely have to secure them well and balance them around the wheel :)
[10:27] * gazzwi86 (~gazzwi86@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:27] * PiBot sets mode +v gazzwi86
[10:27] <Jck_true> gordonDrogon: I don't have 24 GPIO pins on the rasp - And I'm too lazy to wire up something usefull
[10:27] <Jck_true> I2C ftw
[10:27] <gordonDrogon> I was thinking about some sort of brushes type of thing - like DC motors...
[10:28] <gordonDrogon> Jck_true, it's one colour or 2 or 3 ?
[10:28] <Jck_true> 2 color
[10:28] <gordonDrogon> Jck_true, ok - 2 shift registers (4 GPIOs) and 8 GPIOs = 12 GPIOs.
[10:28] <Jck_true> I just ordered a small 5cm fan for my "raspberry mediacenter in a cardbox project"
[10:29] <Jck_true> gordonDrogon: Yeah - I think i'll steal some i2c port expanders
[10:29] <gordonDrogon> Jck_true, or SPI - I have drivers for SPI.
[10:29] <gordonDrogon> Jck_true, but they're easy to do.
[10:30] <Jck_true> gordonDrogon: I used the I2C expanders on an embedde project at work - So i'm pretty good friends with it - Support input too
[10:31] <gordonDrogon> Jck_true, ok. which one?
[10:31] <Jck_true> gordonDrogon: Made a control box for a small building crane
[10:32] <Jck_true> (Large facade windows)
[10:33] <gordonDrogon> The SPI one I've used is the MCP23S17, but there is an I2C variant the MCP23017 - however I just bought the MCP23016 by mistake - that needs additional components to work )-:
[10:33] <Jck_true> gordonDrogon: The control panel was read over an I2C bus from the microcontroller
[10:33] <Jck_true> Urggh model numbers - Give me a second :P
[10:34] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-58-164-167-4.lnse4.woo.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Lord_DeathMatch
[10:34] <Jck_true> PCF8575
[10:35] <Jck_true> "Remote 16-bit I/O expander for I2C-bus"
[10:35] * alexBr (~alex@p5B09FCD7.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[10:35] <gordonDrogon> yea, looks very similar to the MCP chips.
[10:36] * gordonDrogon ponders... 2 of those to control the 32LEDs .. reducing the numbe of pins needed to get to the wheel...
[10:36] <Jck_true> gordonDrogon: Had some troubles with longer cables - The I2C feature on the chip was too fast - so had to use an optional bitbanging
[10:36] <gordonDrogon> Hm.
[10:37] <gordonDrogon> ah well. back inna bit. domestic stuff calls.
[10:37] <Jck_true> But that was for cable more than 3meters
[10:37] <Jck_true> 10 meters optional cables use the bit banging i2c bus
[10:38] <clever> gordonDrogon: no luck with software spdif
[10:39] <clever> gordonDrogon: just getting the required ~5mhz data rate requires never calling schedule()
[10:39] <clever> which means no multi-tasking, and no source for the audio data
[10:42] * Syliss (~Home@ Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[10:42] * Holden (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:42] * PiBot sets mode +v Holden
[10:49] <gazzwi86> So I have inherited some electronics gear from someone at work and was wondering if I could use this breadboard to light up some LEDs
[10:50] <gazzwi86> I have a pack of resistors (brown, black, red or orange), none locking switched and plenty of male to male cables, I also have a ribbon to tie into the board
[10:50] <gazzwi86> obviously i have a load of LEDs too
[10:53] <Xark> gazzwi86: Perhaps check out http://learn.adafruit.com/raspberry-pi-e-mail-notifier-using-leds
[10:54] <Xark> (and you can skip the email part if you like :)
[10:56] <gazzwi86> Xark: cool thanks
[10:57] <gazzwi86> can i just check with a resitior, what is brown, black red?
[10:58] <[SLB]> http://www.michaels-electronics-lessons.com/images/resistor-color-code-all.gif
[11:00] * xmlich02 (~imlich@2001:67c:1220:80c:3:1c2:ad99:6b00) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[11:00] * t7 (~chatzilla@mailgate.ips-international.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:00] * PiBot sets mode +v t7
[11:00] <[SLB]> 1k??
[11:00] * Arex73 (~arek@bestla.net.pl) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[11:00] <gordonDrogon> 1 0 then 2 zeros.
[11:01] * whitman (~whitman@dm-cis-037.its.dur.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:01] * PiBot sets mode +v whitman
[11:01] <gordonDrogon> right. off to see a client.
[11:01] <gordonDrogon> laters.
[11:01] <[SLB]> later gordon
[11:02] * StMichel (mkouhia@lyta.org.aalto.fi) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[11:05] * PiBot sets mode +v xmlich02
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[11:14] * PiBot sets mode +v lrvick
[11:14] <lrvick> Anyone know a safe pin to use for VIN ?
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[11:15] * PiBot sets mode +v SgrA
[11:17] * oco (~chatzilla@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-418-212.w90-41.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:17] * PiBot sets mode +v oco
[11:20] <Holden> lrvick, VIN?
[11:20] <Jck_true> lrvick: VIN? vehicle identification number?
[11:20] <Weaselweb> very important number?
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[11:20] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[11:21] * shayla (~pi@gateway/tor-sasl/shayla) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[11:22] * PiBot sets mode +v Killerkid
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[11:35] <Jck_true> Weaselweb: I think he men V in
[11:36] <Jck_true> Holden: You can supply 5V in on pin 1 and ground on pin 3
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[11:37] * PiBot sets mode +v DarkTherapy
[11:37] <DarkTherapy> whilst I'm waiting for a hub to arrive - does wicd work with the pi?
[11:37] * chickey999 (~administr@5e01933f.bb.sky.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:38] <Holden> Jck_true, hmm, I'd call that Vsupply... VIN made me think he wanted to detect the level of a digital signal (high/low) connected to a gpio pin configured as input
[11:38] * Delboy (~Delboy@141-136-240-52.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:38] * PiBot sets mode +v Delboy
[11:39] <Jck_true> DarkTherapy: Can't see why it woildn't - :)
[11:40] <DarkTherapy> and does it connect to my wifi before login so I can ssh into it?
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[11:40] * PiBot sets mode +v jzu
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[11:41] * mikma (mikma@reaktio.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:41] * torsteiny (~user@63.80-203-61.nextgentel.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[11:41] * PiBot sets mode +v mikma
[11:41] <nid0> ofc
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[11:41] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[11:43] * npm (~npm@cpe-198-72-183-90.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[11:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Patteh
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[11:46] <lrvick> anyone know why GPIO pins 25,24,23,22,21,18,17 all don't seem to work in rpi.GPIO
[11:46] <lrvick> but #4 does out of the box?
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[11:49] <Holden> lrvick, never used it myself, but you could do a quick test with the /sys/class/gpio interface ( http://elinux.org/Rpi_Low-level_peripherals#GPIO_Driving_Example_.28Shell_script.29 ) if they work, then your program is at fault
[11:51] <lrvick> Holden: im just pulsng all my pins at 5hz
[11:51] <lrvick> 2hz*
[11:51] <lrvick> and only pin 4 is outputting anything
[11:51] <Holden> I am going to ask the obvious here... are they configured as output?
[11:52] <lrvick> Holden: http://pae.st/oAu8/
[11:52] <lrvick> little room for ambiguity here
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[11:54] <bircoe> another silly question... but are you running the script as root/sudo?
[11:54] <Holden> lrvick, in the for loop try to add: "GPIO.setup(pin, GPIO.IN)" before GPIO.setup(pin,GPIO.OUT)
[11:55] <Holden> in C you have to set the pin as input first, and then you can set as output... not sure if it's the same in python
[11:55] <Holden> but this example http://elinux.org/Rpi_Low-level_peripherals#GPIO_Driving_Example_.28Python.29 suggests it might be the case
[11:55] <lrvick> no cookie
[11:56] <lrvick> :(
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[11:56] <Weaselweb> Holden: you in the /sys/class/gpio interface you need to configure as input first? then the driver is buggy. export $number > /sys/class/gpio/export; echo out > /sys/class/gpio/gpio$number/direction should be enough
[11:56] <Weaselweb> even high must work instead of out
[11:57] <Holden> Weaselweb, in the /sys/class/gpio interface I don't think that's required. you can configure it as out without setting it as input first
[11:58] <Holden> and now that I look more carefully, it should be the same in python...
[11:58] <Weaselweb> it should even be input directly after export
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[11:58] <Holden> lrvick, try only one pin at a time...
[11:59] <lrvick> well then at the very least this should be pulsing something besides pin 4: http://pae.st/oAu8/
[11:59] <Weaselweb> (unless configured as output from ex previous inport/export iirc)
[11:59] <lrvick> however only 4 is outputting anything
[12:05] <lrvick> interesting
[12:05] <lrvick> equivilant code in bash works
[12:06] <Holden> good, at least your rpi doesn't have a hw problem :)
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[12:10] <Holden> lrvick, what version of RPi.GPIO are you using? also did you look at this page http://pypi.python.org/pypi/RPi.GPIO/0.3.1a ?
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[12:15] <lrvick> hotwings: eah using RPi.GPIO-0.3.1a-py2.7
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[12:15] <drogon> missing history here, but wasn't there a version of RPi.GPIO that swapped high/low?
[12:15] <Holden> lol
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[12:16] <lrvick> drogon: yeah that was fixed in the latest release
[12:17] <drogon> an odd mistake to make though, I'm sure it was just a typo.
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[12:20] <lrvick> ok yeah so i just made a simple fuzzer in bash and confirmed all pins work as expected with bash
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[12:22] <Holden> now you have to understand why it doesn't work in python... unless you've found a bug in that library :)
[12:22] <dcm1977> Morning
[12:22] <dcm1977> Has anyone tried Mike Cooks magic wand?
[12:23] <drogon> dcm1977, I've made one - well, 90% there.
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[12:23] <drogon> lrvick, have you seen my gpio program for poking the gpio pins from bash?
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[12:23] <booyaa> hurr
[12:24] <dcm1977> I've made it but struggling getting the software to compile - using a fresh install of raspbian get and error can't open /dev/mem
[12:24] <drogon> need to be root to open /dev/mem.
[12:24] <drogon> although I'm drivinhg mine with wiringPi and not Mikes software.
[12:25] <drogon> (naturally :-)
[12:25] <drogon> so, sudo ./message
[12:25] <dcm1977> yep familiar with that
[12:25] <dcm1977> i''l
[12:25] <dcm1977> i'll give it a go
[12:26] <lrvick> drogon: no but I ust hammered this out which seems to do the job: https://gist.github.com/3369097
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[12:27] <drogon> lrvick, the gpio I write is on C and setuid - saves all that sudo stuff...
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[12:28] <drogon> lrusak, see e.g. http://project-downloads.drogon.net/files/gpioExamples/tuxx.sh
[12:30] <drogon> dcm1977, don't fall into the trap of thinking you need to re-install ,etc. just if something isn't working - this is Linux not windows ;-)
[12:30] <lrvick> drogon: i feel you have certianly done a lot of things right in your library. I feel it would get a lot more adoption if you got it included in standard repos like pypi for easy package based installation, as well as maintaining it in a community centric VCS like github or google code with a bug tracker and all that good stuff.
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[12:30] <gh0st3r> hey...
[12:30] <gh0st3r> trying to put a new usb wifi key in my raspberry pi
[12:30] <Gadgetoid> wiiiiirriiiinnngggPi :D
[12:31] <lrvick> those are my single biggest turn-offs. nothing to do with the code itself actually, which seems very well done.
[12:31] <gh0st3r> no extra power.... (im hardcore like that)
[12:31] <gh0st3r> its not coming on with a dmesg error of:
[12:31] <gh0st3r> "ath9k_htc: probe of 1-1.2:1.0 failed with error -22
[12:31] <gh0st3r> "usb 1-1.2: ath9k_htc: Firmware - htc_7010.fw not found
[12:31] <drogon> lrvick, I'll host it myself - always. will never use the likes of github, but that's a personal thing.
[12:31] <gh0st3r> Can this be fixed by installing some crazy wifi package OR do I really need more power?
[12:32] <drogon> lrvick, getting it included into standard distros is hard I think though - unless someone is maintaining specific Pi repositories.
[12:32] <lrvick> drogon: hosting it yourself is not a problem. google hosts the androdi source code themselves. but they also provide gerrit, issue tracking, code reviews etc.
[12:32] <drogon> my aim is to produce .deb's for it all though.
[12:32] <lrvick> if your going to host it, host all the things
[12:32] <lrvick> they are tings the community expects from any project
[12:33] <lrvick> foir wide adoption
[12:33] <drogon> there's a lot of learning involved - I've not had time to get fully to grips with git yet )-:
[12:33] <dcm1977> drogon, thanks for the advice it was a clean install as this was my first play with raspberry pi this morning
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[12:34] <MichelleZ> drogon, i've hosted my own deb/apt repositories before if you need any help
[12:34] <lrvick> At a bare minimum you need an issue tracker and version control. simply hosting zips is considered bad practice, and will make most software engineers not take a second look at your library even if the code is fantastic.
[12:34] <dcm1977> sudo did the trick by the way, just to work out why the text is the wrong way round now!!
[12:34] <Gadgetoid> drogon: What state is WiringPi in now, I presume my libraries are now getting pretty stale?
[12:34] <lrvick> documentation and integration and community interaction methods and syndication are just as important as the code when creating an open source project impo
[12:34] <drogon> MichelleZ, hosting isn't the issue - it's making the .deb's in the first place... but any hints are welcome!
[12:34] <lrvick> imo*
[12:35] <MichelleZ> drogon, i didn't mean hosting directly, i meant all the fiddly bits from making debs to making an apt-repository and managing that
[12:35] <drogon> MichelleZ, yea, advice welcomed :)
[12:36] <MichelleZ> sure, remind me again, as i might of mentioned on the lug channel, i'm off to china for two weeks from the weekend anyway so won't be able to do anything short time
[12:36] <drogon> Gadgetoid, it's changed a lot since you took the last snapshot, but don't take another for a day or 2 - I've some more stuff to test and include in it now. It's growing!
[12:36] <drogon> MichelleZ, ah, enjoy!
[12:37] <Gadgetoid> drogon: Yessir!
[12:37] <lrvick> drogon: this only makes my point that much stronger. For instance, if your code was in a version control repository, with history version tagging etc then anyone could then syndicate from that repo to automatically make packages for various distributions.
[12:37] <MasterGeek> Personally i think that with making "deb's" should be addressed in #linux as its more to do with how linux works than how the pi works
[12:37] <Weaselweb> gh0st3r: the error says it all "Firmware - htc_7010.fw not found" you need to install the firmware to /lib/firmware
[12:37] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: I was keeping abreast of his changes pretty well until I went on holiday
[12:38] <lrvick> oh right, you were mirroring on github.
[12:38] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: Aye, yes, but it's now a month behind: https://github.com/WiringPi/WiringPi
[12:38] <Gadgetoid> I might update it with the current version anyway, to keep the change history for posterity
[12:38] <lrvick> evne then though, without him actually using a vcs and making incremental history adjustments, it makes it very frustrating for any other developers to contribute to his code.
[12:39] <lrvick> commits should be incremental as development happens, not huge massive new commits when releases happen
[12:39] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: agreed
[12:39] <MasterGeek> There is a nice HowTO Make a Deb for dummies here >>> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-debpkg/index.html
[12:39] <[SLB]> drogon, i got this book, it's also available in pdf, to learn the basics of git, it's quick and straight to the point, also very detailed i liked it http://www.ericsink.com/vcbe/
[12:39] <gh0st3r> Weaselweb is there a package for this in pi's version of debian? or?
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[12:40] <lrvick> Sadly wiringpi will never get much adoption until this is dealt with, and only drogon can do it.
[12:40] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: But it's open-source, freely licensed code anyway, we could completely ignore Gordon's version and just nick his changes :D
[12:40] <drogon> [SLB], thanks.
[12:40] <Weaselweb> gh0st3r: don't know much of debian, but I would expect it has a linux-firmware package too. you can grab the firmware also from the linux-firmware repository
[12:40] <[SLB]> yw :)
[12:40] <lrvick> i cant just git clone wiringpi and look through the history, and cherry pick things, or do pip install wiringpi.
[12:40] <drogon> lrvick, anyone can take wiringPi and fork it - and several already have. I'm getting emails and feedback on my blogs daily about people adopting it.
[12:41] <lrvick> drogon: oh im not saying people are not, as it is a fantastic library. Im jsut saying thats only a small percentage of what the adoption rate could be with proper integrations
[12:41] <drogon> you can't git clone it as it's not in git - yet, but you can still get the source and so what you want with it.
[12:41] <gh0st3r> Weaselweb cheers
[12:42] <Gadgetoid> You can git clone it, just not at the very cutting edge of your changes drogon
[12:42] <lrvick> Im telling you why rpi.GPIO is currently way more popular than wiringpi, and how you can get the same level of exposure.
[12:42] <booyaa> lo mr. toid
[12:42] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: Yeah, I've observed that too
[12:42] <drogon> and, at the moment, I'm no accepting updates to it - it's a personal project and going to stay that way for a while yet - you may not think this is good, but it's something that works for me. for now.
[12:43] <drogon> lrvick, I think rpi.gpio will always be more popular - and I've no issues with that. it's not a competition.
[12:44] <drogon> I've personally no interest whatsoever in any sort of competitive coding. Really, I don't care.
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[12:44] <lrvick> drogon: but yet you have been making optimizations and sane improvements to wiringpi at a far raster rate than rpi.gpio. I would say yours is of arguably higher quality, but far lower exposure and community interaction. seems unfurtnate to me.
[12:44] <lrvick> its like its only half-way open source
[12:45] <lrvick> just my observations, not trying t flame you. sorr yif it comes across that way.
[12:45] <drogon> no, I understand your view.
[12:45] <drogon> and I understand the power of true open source too.
[12:45] <Gadgetoid> I'm happy with pushing gordon's changes in for each release, it's not the true spirit of github, but it works
[12:46] <Gadgetoid> Actually, I could probably automate the whole process
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[12:47] <lrvick> Yeah, that will have to be how it is then.
[12:47] <lrvick> You can just continue to merge in gordons changes
[12:47] <lrvick> and you are then the community maintainer
[12:47] <lrvick> and you can then easily accept outside patches that make sense, etc.
[12:47] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: yeah it becomes a pain if two people happen to work on the same thing at the same time, but we just need a little communication- and Gordon usually lets me know what juicy changes are in the pipeline :D
[12:48] * Holden feels like he has to learn to use git, other than the simple 'git clone/pull/checkout'
[12:48] <lrvick> Gadgetoid: if you are going to in fact take on the role of maintainer, then I would advise taking the other important steps for the project, like pypi distribution
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[12:48] <lrvick> so people can pip instlal wiringpi.
[12:48] <lrvick> etc
[12:49] * ebswift (~ebswift@ppp118-208-148-150.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
[12:49] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: yeah, I'd love to do those things, but am new to Python and Perl
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[12:50] <lrvick> do-ocracy. Want sometong done, do it yourself. then gordon can continue to just be lead contributor, and that model _can_ work.
[12:50] <Holden> drogon, btw, I've put online a page about my Raspberry Pi PIC programmer, here's the link if you want to have a look http://holdenc.altervista.org/rpp/
[12:50] <Gadgetoid> Seems to make sense, I'd rather Gordon continued pushing the goodies, rather than being pressured into learning git
[12:51] <drogon> Holden, looks good if you like PICs :)
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[12:51] <lrvick> Yeah, it can work if you take on all the roles of a maintainer. I don't know much about the perl process
[12:52] <drogon> Gadgetoid, I want to learn GIT though, I just need to dedicate a day to forcing myself to using it.
[12:52] <lrvick> but i cna certianly help with the python
[12:52] <Holden> drogon, :)
[12:52] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:52] <tzarc> I got told to stop using git and go back to cvs at work
[12:52] <drogon> saorry - being a bit slow - at a clients site and doing othe stuff - stuff that helps to pay for the fun stuff I can do like wiringPi :)
[12:52] <Gadgetoid> drogon: It's not too tricky, unless you're keen to run your own repo
[12:53] <lrvick> drogon: http://try.github.com/
[12:53] <lrvick> drogon: developed by a friend of mine, to teach peopel git, and version ctonrl
[12:53] <lrvick> simply int he brwoser
[12:53] <lrvick> simply in the browser*
[12:53] <lrvick> he partnered with github for the project
[12:53] <lrvick> rather, github funded him building the project
[12:54] <MasterGeek> What i dont understand is that the pi was sold as an "educational" tool, and yet some how a lot of what i see is software and hardware engineers acting like everyones stuck under some NDA and just dont want to educate and or share fully the work they are doing. And I kind of get that embedded guys, in most cases work in a closed source env. < bad habits. But come guys, isnt this ment to be helping kids learn how this stuff works ? Or d
[12:54] <MasterGeek> id i miss something in the press releases. My point is that if your not going to fully open source any project whats the point of you being here at all. ?
[12:54] <lrvick> i now would say its one of the best git intros.
[12:54] <lrvick> even if you ultimatly decide to not go with github itself
[12:54] <lrvick> git is git
[12:54] * babilen (~babilen@unaffiliated/babilen) has left #raspberrypi
[12:55] <drogon> bookmarked it.
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[12:55] <lrvick> MasterGeek: but this is a case of the community helping out where a particular contributor is weak.
[12:55] <lrvick> that in effect is how open source code always trives
[12:55] <lrvick> one way or the other
[12:55] <lrvick> thrives*
[12:55] <Gadgetoid> Nobody is sitting on the WiringPi code or hiding it from anyone, it's all LGPL afaik
[12:56] <lrvick> ^
[12:56] <Gadgetoid> And all my libraries are available for scrutiny and contribution, which I certainly welcome as I'm weak in the Python/Perl respects
[12:57] <lrvick> yeah. this can work. the community just needs a system to yell at a maintainer.
[12:57] <lrvick> Gadgetoid: you have put yourself up for that task, and thats fine. long as someone is.
[12:58] <Gadgetoid> Hahaha
[12:58] <Gadgetoid> Oh dear, what have I done!
[12:59] <MasterGeek> lrvick, thats my point. The Pi wasnt sold so the techies ould get a cheap dev board, it was sold so "kids" could get in at the base level, and Guys like us that have been around for a while are ment to "help" them get stuff done. Not making projects fully open and contributory to the full extent. Is kinda flying against what the Pi is all about. I just dont get it
[12:59] <lrvick> Gadgetoid: http://wiki.python.org/moin/CheeseShopTutorial then scroll down to "Submitting Packages to the Package Index"
[12:59] <lrvick> Gadgetoid: if you have any questions let me know. I'm happy to help.
[13:00] <drogon> MasterGeek, the base level is Linux, and not the underlying hardware - which (well the gpu) is hard to really get at..
[13:00] <Gadgetoid> MasterGeek: Not entirely sure where you're coming from
[13:00] <lrvick> MasterGeek: its not as bad as all that, its just a need for delgation and orgnization. that happens in stages.
[13:00] <clever> MasterGeek: ive had a look at adding a laptop LCD panel to my pi
[13:00] <MasterGeek> lol linux
[13:00] <clever> MasterGeek: but sadly, the DSI pins go directly to the videocore
[13:00] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: thanks lrvick, I'd be lost without your guidance!
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[13:01] <lrvick> Gadgetoid: I know a bit about the ruby process too, once you tackle python.
[13:01] <MasterGeek> Gadgetoid, i wasnt talking about any project specifically, but in general.
[13:02] <lrvick> MasterGeek: can you give me an example (other than wiringpi)?
[13:02] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: you can already "gem install wiringpi"
[13:02] <lrvick> Gadgetoid: oh nice! ok so one down then
[13:02] <lrvick> just need pip next then. ruby and python being the dominat players right now
[13:02] <MasterGeek> i can but im not going to , just hang around for a while, you will see plenty of examples
[13:02] <Gadgetoid> lrvick: But all the libraries do need an overhaul and they do need to be as closely related as possible in terms of API
[13:02] * XeCrypt is now known as Tuxuser
[13:03] <lrvick> MasterGeek: I see pelnty of examples of people open sourcing things and working with the community. I wrote a driver for my LCD and open sourced it a few weeks ago, for instance.
[13:03] <Gadgetoid> MasterGeek: The idea behind WiringPi is to deliver a baked solution to people who want to use A language to interface with B glut of electronic components. We're not so much handing them the answer, as building a framework for a specific, entry-level form of education
[13:03] <MasterGeek> cool bravo,
[13:03] <MasterGeek> a great example of how it should work
[13:04] <MasterGeek> Gadget, i wasnt talking about WiringPi , i was speaking general
[13:04] <lrvick> MasterGeek: im also doing a basic class on the rpi later today, and proabbyl doing them regularly at my lab soon.
[13:05] <lrvick> MasterGeek: focus on the positives and do psoitve thigns yourself
[13:05] <lrvick> where something lacks, be a part of the solution.
[13:05] <MasterGeek> The problem is you have taken my comment personal, and it wasnt
[13:06] <lrvick> MasterGeek: no i didnt take it personally at all. Im simply saying if what you say is true
[13:06] <lrvick> the burden is on each of us perosnally
[13:06] <lrvick> to fix it
[13:06] <MasterGeek> true
[13:06] <Gadgetoid> MasterGeek: Just trying to understand you, people can ultimately do what they want with the WiringPi, and nobody is under any obligation to further the goals of the foundation
[13:07] <lrvick> finger pointing is almost never the answer to anything, only personal involvement.
[13:07] <Gadgetoid> They, arguably, have already donated a small amount by even buying the Pi, and I see no reason not to treat it as a cheap dev-board
[13:08] <lrvick> Its a fantasticly cheap dev board. and it snot just about kids anymore. this has grown far bigger than just kids, which are of course always going to be one target
[13:08] <lrvick> I am going to be teaching a room full of adults about it later today
[13:08] <lrvick> adult software engineers, who have enve really learned hardware
[13:08] <lrvick> and want a low barrier to entry
[13:08] <lrvick> the rpi is that solution
[13:08] <MasterGeek> qlol finger pointing? < see there you go again, which way would you like me to say it again ? I was speaking generally nothing to do with WireingPi
[13:09] <lrvick> MasterGeek: I was not at all saying you were doing fiber pointing. in fact you did not actually anem any examples, which is fine.
[13:09] <lrvick> MasterGeek: i was again, speaking generally
[13:09] <lrvick> MasterGeek: you made an observation, perhaps a valid one. However then it begs the qeustion. what can be done to fix it?
[13:10] <lrvick> What can you do to improve things?
[13:10] <lrvick> or do you suggest be done?
[13:10] <lrvick> man i can not seem to type this morning.
[13:11] * MasterGeek bites tongue
[13:12] * jgeboski (~jgeboski@unaffiliated/jgeboski) has left #raspberrypi
[13:12] * datagutt_ is now known as jsnazi
[13:12] * jsnazi is now known as datagutt
[13:12] <lrvick> lol. My default when people make negative assertions is to find the inverse... the positive thing that can be done to correct it.
[13:12] <lrvick> i am an action-focused person ^_^
[13:18] <MasterGeek> OK, then RPF should redact its statements that the Pi is the tool to be selling to educators "The new BBC micro" because many of the fundamental and principal control system, that are needed to fully teach embedded systems are locked out and muted with an NDA , so how can any educator teach the full aspect of embedded systems, when the guts are locked out? If you want my personal opinion, I think RPF have and are still committing fraud
[13:18] <MasterGeek> and deception selling it as an open system , when the opposite is the true,
[13:20] <lrvick> MasterGeek: They are not legally allowed to open sourc ethe boardcom chip. They are acting within the terms of their license.
[13:20] <lrvick> MasterGeek: if you want fully open hardware, use an arduino.
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[13:20] <MasterGeek> then redact the sales pitch saying that it is
[13:20] <lrvick> MasterGeek: they made a nesesary compromise, in order to get more pwoerful hardware avialable for cheaper, to more people
[13:21] <lrvick> everything that is needed to teach people essentials, is exposed.
[13:21] <lrvick> and its linux based, from the get go
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[13:21] <lrvick> the software is all open. there are some hardware componets that are not, but they dont in any way restrict your ability to develop on the board. The schematics are even open. You can go build your own pi if you want
[13:22] <lrvick> you just need to get the bcm chip
[13:22] * DanyO83 (~me@mx2.intelisys.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:22] <MasterGeek> personaly i woulnt take a BC chip if they paid me to put it on a board
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[13:23] <lrvick> MasterGeek: if you can make something fully open, that is cheaper, then by all means do so.
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[13:24] <MasterGeek> But i dont think price is the issue,
[13:24] <lrvick> MasterGeek: the intel or AMD based processor chip in the computer you are suing to talk to me, is not open either. Sounds to me like your beef is with boardcom specifically.
[13:24] <lrvick> broadcom has had a bad history of working with the linux community. the rpi is a big step for them. i for one welcome it.
[13:24] <MasterGeek> not at all, why do you make so many assumption ? and then react to your own assumption ?
[13:24] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:25] <lrvick> MasterGeek: i apologize. seemed to be what you were implying.
[13:25] <MasterGeek> Well embedded systems for me has nothing to do with linux
[13:25] <drogon> was it designed to teach embedded systems? I heard that Eben originally only wanted 4 gpio pins
[13:26] <drogon> and Acorn didn't open source the ULA - probably to stop Sinclair learning their internal secrets at the time.
[13:26] <MasterGeek> well im only going by the interviews with the BBC and many other outlets that i have seen
[13:26] <drogon> (same for Sinclair not opensourcing their ULA)
[13:26] <lrvick> Yeah the pi is mostly about teaching linux and the command line and a little bit of gpio and _basics_ of hardware. if you want to get deeper into hardware then the arduino is still the way to go
[13:26] <lrvick> the devices have very different use cases and can teach differnt things
[13:26] <lrvick> with a bit of overlap
[13:26] <lrvick> I personally teach both.
[13:26] <drogon> what lrvick said... teaching the basics - getting people back into learning at that level again.
[13:27] <lrvick> tonight im spending half my time talking about the arduino, and half talking about the pi.
[13:27] <drogon> I spent most of yesterday talking about PI, but arduino was mentioned.
[13:27] <MasterGeek> well you define "the basics" as linux ?
[13:27] <MasterGeek> hahahaaha
[13:27] <MasterGeek> ok
[13:27] * A1B0HPH0B1A (~James_Mui@placebo.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:27] * PiBot sets mode +v A1B0HPH0B1A
[13:27] <MasterGeek> im dont
[13:27] <drogon> Well, I booted my Pi into BASIC :)
[13:28] <A1B0HPH0B1A> drogon: Basic? Akin to a BBC Micro?
[13:28] * gh0st3r (~gh0st@ Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[13:28] <MasterGeek> cool. i ported sdlbasic so i have an interpreter too
[13:28] <drogon> yes :) in 5 seconds flat.
[13:28] <A1B0HPH0B1A> awesome!
[13:28] <A1B0HPH0B1A> Have to make a note of that and have a go myself!
[13:28] <lrvick> MasterGeek: Yes. I start most of the people i train off with Linux. When they want to learn software engineering. When they want to learn hardware at a lower level, then arduino is still the right tool.
[13:30] <MasterGeek> Well back to my first point, in that Pi was sold on the back of the BBC and it being the next best thing to sliced bread, but its not.
[13:30] <MasterGeek> = obtaining money by deception = fraud
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[13:33] <lrvick> MasterGeek: it is truly one of the best hybrid teaching tools ive ever seen, and every kid needs one.
[13:33] <lrvick> MasterGeek: its credit is due
[13:33] <lrvick> MasterGeek: is it perfect? hell no. Is it better than anything else we have had for that price point before?
[13:33] <lrvick> yep
[13:33] <MasterGeek> Like i said i dont think price is the issue
[13:34] <nid0> dunno about you but my pi was sold to me as a credit-card sized low-cost computer, and thats what I got
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[13:34] <zgreg> has anyone checked yet whether the new synopsis USB driver fixes some of the bugs?
[13:34] <neofutur> +1
[13:34] <neofutur> credit-card sized low-cost computer, and thats what I got
[13:35] <tzarc> compared to say, a simple AVR eval board? extremely cheap
[13:35] <neofutur> ( just hoping for a version C with 512 mb ram and a better network / usb )
[13:35] <lrvick> MasterGeek: price _is_ the issue. price is one of the biggest barriers to widespread adoption of classroom computing.
[13:35] <lrvick> MasterGeek: most kids still dont have computers in the classroom
[13:36] <drogon> raspberry pi controlled coffee machine: http://unicorn.drogon.net/penzance/IMAG0438.jpg
[13:36] <lrvick> woo!
[13:36] <lrvick> i just moves one of my stepper moters with my pi
[13:36] <lrvick> ^_^
[13:36] <MasterGeek> Well im glad you said that, because i had a budget of 50k to purchase just that ! sad to say the contract didnt goto PI
[13:37] <drogon> The Pi Rat of Penzance: http://unicorn.drogon.net/penzance/IMAG0443.jpg
[13:37] <lrvick> MasterGeek: good for you. Did you just come here to troll?
[13:37] <MasterGeek> ive been here for quite some time,
[13:38] <neofutur> drogon: I wnat a better photo, hard to see the coffe machine whith this one ;(
[13:38] <lrvick> MasterGeek: what did you end up choosing, that you find to be a better education dool?
[13:39] <lrvick> tool*
[13:39] <drogon> sorry - crap camera phone.
[13:39] <drogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/penzance/IMAG0437.jpg
[13:40] <MasterGeek> And i have a number of pi's that i will dev on and contribute to the community as well as i can, but sadly only on a personal level, and would have loved to put the resources at my disposal to the project. But i have to answer to the boss , and he said no
[13:40] <drogon> The Pi actually does control the coffee machine - next to the Pi is a little IO board which controls the fill solenoid, senses the water level and dispenses water. I think it's doing the water hwater too.
[13:40] <drogon> so they put a cup under it, then use an iphone or a laptop to talk to the web server runing on the pi to dispense a coffee..
[13:40] <MasterGeek> srr NDA cant say
[13:42] <lrvick> MasterGeek: let me get this straight. You find the fact that the Raspberry Pi foundation has an NDA with broadcom which rpevents themf rom releasing chip specs, is terrible, and yet you have an NDA preventing you from talking about the product you feel is better than the pi.
[13:42] <lrvick> MasterGeek: you are a very amusing troll
[13:44] <zgreg> forum.apc.io/discussion/comment/688
[13:44] <zgreg> ouch, so much for the via apc :)
[13:45] <MasterGeek> see there you go again with your ad-homin assumptions , and then argue with me me as if i said them. ? First i never said that the chip was terrible, and my NDA has to do with education policy and nothing to do with chips. but thats you making assumption again.
[13:46] <zgreg> some parts of the BCM2835 *are* terrible, though
[13:46] <zgreg> namely the USB host and SDHCI part
[13:46] <Croves> Hello everyone! I'm Croves and I'm from Brazil
[13:46] <Croves> Any brazilian around here?
[13:47] <MasterGeek> hey Croves welcome to Pi
[13:47] <Croves> Thank you, MasterGeek!
[13:47] <MasterGeek> There has been a few BR peeps around, last few months, that pop in and out
[13:48] <Croves> I'm a Comp. Science student and I'm trying to introduce Pi to my College.
[13:48] <neofutur> drogon: thanks ;) much better ;)
[13:48] <Croves> I know a few fellas from Sao Paulo who are working with Pi, but I don't talk to much with them...
[13:49] <MasterGeek> Its early days yet, As more of the Pi's reach endusers, im sure the numbers will grow
[13:49] <lrvick> MasterGeek: You critisized the pi foundation for not having an "open" boardcom chip.
[13:49] <MasterGeek> i did
[13:49] <lrvick> MasterGeek: that was how all this started. The reason it is not open, is an NDA with broadcom.
[13:49] <lrvick> MasterGeek: yet you don't share your alternative, also due to an NDA
[13:50] <lrvick> this is not an assumption. all based on what you indicated
[13:50] <MasterGeek> but i didnt say it ws a terrible soc, i said that there NDA was theworst i had seen in 20 y
[13:50] <MasterGeek> lrusak, whats your problem son ?
[13:51] <t7> someone should leak to wikileaks
[13:51] <t7> then they might just drop it
[13:51] <lrvick> You did not sued the word terrible, yes. You just were just very ciritcal, and indicated you felt it was a poor education tool, and false advertizing.
[13:51] <MasterGeek> I cant divulge policy or contractual information on school contracts ? whats hard to understand ?
[13:52] <lrvick> Raspbery Pi foundation can't devuldge chip specs from their sponsoring company as a part of their arrangement to get the chips. Whats hard to understand?
[13:52] <lrvick> NDAS tie a lot of peoples hands. They are doing the best that can be done within that price point.
[13:53] <lrvick> and there are no fully open source chips of comproble power, even if you did want to shift the price point a bit.
[13:53] <lrvick> its a nessesary evil to get super cheap educational computers out to the largest number of people.
[13:53] * unknownbliss is now known as UKB|Away
[13:54] <zgreg> I don't understand, I think everyone agrees upon that
[13:54] <lrvick> zgreg: MasterGeek does not
[13:55] <zgreg> sure you could use something from TI's OMAP line instead, but these are a hell more expensive
[13:55] <lrvick> in other news, i just did this! http://i.imgur.com/6FMOs.jpg
[13:55] <MasterGeek> Then they should sell it as an educational tool because the curriculum for it in schools, isnt just about linux, it involves the whole aspect of embedded systems, not just getting linux to run, can do that on any pc.
[13:55] <MasterGeek> shouldnt
[13:56] <lrvick> Controlling a servo motor, in python, using the pi, and running it all off an xbox power supply: http://i.imgur.com/6FMOs.jpg
[13:56] <lrvick> i dont know of another platform that would let me do that so cheapely with so few lines of code.
[13:56] <lrvick> it makes me happy
[13:56] <MasterGeek> cool
[13:56] <MasterGeek> im happey for you
[13:56] <MasterGeek> happy
[13:56] <[SLB]> whats the blue board on top of the rasp?
[13:56] <zgreg> MasterGeek: programming very complex systems on bare metal isn't really interesting for school either
[13:57] <lrvick> just took me 10 lines of python code, to drive that motor using the pi.
[13:57] <teff> MasterGeek, what curriculum are you working from and for what age range?
[13:57] <trevorman> [SLB]: https://www.adafruit.com/products/801
[13:57] <lrvick> ^
[13:58] <[SLB]> cool thanks :)
[13:58] <MasterGeek> I have 6-12 yo learning assembly,
[13:58] <zgreg> MasterGeek: and that's really the only thing that's affected a lot by not having proper datasheets
[13:58] <drogon> ah, that's an adafruit protoboard!
[13:58] <zgreg> MasterGeek: a small MCU is probably more suitable for that than a really complex application processor
[13:58] <drogon> lrvick, I saw a video recently of someone controlling a stepper in bash!
[13:59] <zgreg> MasterGeek: also, you can do that with linux, too
[13:59] <lrvick> http://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/ybe4n/driving_a_stepper_motor_using_a_pi_and_python/ upboats?
[13:59] <lrvick> ^_^
[13:59] <lrvick> drogon: yeah i could do it in bash with like 3 lines of code right now with this setup
[13:59] <lrvick> sooo easy
[13:59] * tomahhunt (~tomahhunt@vps.tomhunt.me.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:00] <drogon> another adafruit protoboard in-use: http://unicorn.drogon.net/pitrak3.jpg
[14:00] <lrvick> All i need to do is send pulses for stepping/speed. and send high or low to control direction on another pin
[14:00] <MasterGeek> The general policy of the dept, is to move away from anything OS and get to the real guts
[14:00] * Croves (~Croves@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[14:01] <trevorman> doing bare metal assembler on a complex CPU like ARM wouldn't be fun :P
[14:01] <lrvick> My general policy is to make students build linux from scratch, without a mouse.
[14:01] <lrvick> But i am mainly training people to be software engineers
[14:01] <trevorman> oh hey you can't even blink a LED on a GPIO because you've not initialized the GPIO block yet...
[14:01] <lrvick> if i was training for hardwre, id be using an arduino
[14:01] <trevorman> no serial either since you've not initialized the PL011 block
[14:01] <drogon> lrusak, is that a microstepping controller?
[14:02] <zgreg> trevorman: my words exactly
[14:02] <nid0> where were you guys when I was at school tbh, our IT department was run by a physics teacher that "sortof knows about computers" and "taught" us to use excel :<
[14:02] <zgreg> if you want to tech embedded systems on a low level, you definitely shouldn't use a very complex system
[14:02] <drogon> nid0, I suspect I'd bee working for 20 years by then :)
[14:02] <zgreg> use an AVR or PIC for that, they're perfect
[14:02] <lrvick> nid0: when I was in school i was presented with the same kind of "teaching"? I dropped out of college at 16 and never looked back
[14:03] <lrvick> best education/carrer choice i ever made
[14:03] <lrvick> Thankfully things are getting _slightly_ better
[14:03] <zgreg> the arduino hardware is readily available and cheap
[14:03] <lrvick> yeah. the digispark arduino is available for 8$
[14:03] <lrvick> fantastic option
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[14:04] <zgreg> I don't like the arduino ide, but you don't need to use it
[14:04] <drogon> Gertboard is ?30, but it includes an arduino - apart from the pin-layout, however...
[14:04] <lrvick> I dont use the arduino ide at all. I just use vim
[14:04] <lrvick> and use scons to upload
[14:04] <zgreg> drogon: I would rather say it includes an AVR
[14:04] <drogon> zgreg, yea, technically... :)
[14:04] <drogon> scons? is that an alternative to avrdude?
[14:04] <zgreg> drogon: the gertboard isn't supported by the arduino framework at all
[14:05] <lrvick> drogon: it wraps it intelligently
[14:05] <lrvick> drogon: like a makefile
[14:05] <lrvick> drogon: "scons upload" is all you need
[14:05] <drogon> lrvick, ok. I use vim + makefiles for my atmega stuff..
[14:05] <drogon> zgreg, I put together a lot of stuff to make the arduino ide work with the gertboard.
[14:05] <trevorman> its not an "arduino" at all on the gertboard. gert said he expects you to program it directly by bitbanging and not to have the STK style serial bootloader.
[14:05] <lrvick> drogon: https://github.com/suapapa/arscons
[14:06] <drogon> gert said that a long time ago... (relatively speaking)
[14:06] <drogon> I got a Gertboard 2 months ago to put together the way to integrate it with the arduino ide..
[14:06] <zgreg> arduino is hyped way too much :)
[14:07] <trevorman> drogon: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1731#comment-29177
[14:07] <zgreg> I only like it for the very cheap development boards :)
[14:08] <MasterGeek> Ok so now they know how to build an OS ? How in the long term will that enable the next generation to compete with china or korea or any of the other places in the world we currently buy tec from ? What you dont seem to be able to do is see past your own requirements and look to the future. Your world your way, would involve still being dependent on tec from the east, but the next generation would be able it install an OS ? Which is NO
[14:08] <MasterGeek> T the vision of the UK education system, where by the long term goals are to Educate the next generation to Build there own systems and NOT be dependent on the east for tec ? Your view is now and has no bearing what so ever on building an educated and forward thinking independent generation. But to have a generation that continues to be dependent on Co like BC to shaft them and there ability to build a manifacturing bas we so badly need
[14:08] <MasterGeek> in the UK.
[14:08] * markllama (mlamouri@nat/redhat/x-cppkktkmnoyfptbm) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:08] * PiBot sets mode +v markllama
[14:08] <drogon> trevorman, I patched avrdude to program it with the arduini ide, or strandalone
[14:08] <drogon> https://projects.drogon.net/raspberry-pi/gertboard/arduino-ide-installation-isp/
[14:08] <trevorman> it must drive Atmel nuts that anything with an AVR in it just gets called an Arduino
[14:08] <drogon> :)
[14:08] <drogon> more sales for them, so maybe they don't care.
[14:09] <t7> MasterGeek: we are only dependent on them for hardware
[14:09] <zgreg> trevorman: well, they get to sell a log of chips, at least
[14:09] <MasterGeek> lol wuteve
[14:09] <trevorman> true
[14:10] <trevorman> MasterGeek: you've not looked too closely at x86 then. there is quite a lot of mysterious NDA only stuff in there and now we've got signed firmware blobs which are essential for the CPUs to even boot.
[14:10] <MasterGeek> But woulnt it be better to have that manufacturing base here ?
[14:10] <zgreg> MasterGeek: no idea what that drivel is all about, but a really complex hardware is definitely NOT suitable as an introduction for OS programming
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[14:10] <nid0> MasterGeek: 2 points, 1) you have to start somewhere and teaching 8 year olds isnt exactly the target age for a masters degree in embedded systems engineering, and 2) dependance on china for high-tech manufacturing is 99% tax and labour cost, not lack of knowledge.
[14:10] <trevorman> memory controller initialisation is traditionally NDA only material for any recent x86 CPU
[14:11] <drogon> so how does Linux work on recent x86's then?
[14:11] <zgreg> MasterGeek: as I already said, there are already platforms available that are much more suitable for this
[14:11] <zgreg> how about this? make a simple RTOS for AVR?
[14:11] <zgreg> that's something suitable for teaching some OS kernel concepts
[14:11] <trevorman> drogon: the BIOS does all the signed firmware blob stuff and most of the super secret initialisation. reverse engineering for anything left over.
[14:11] <drogon> trevorman, interesting. what a waste though.
[14:12] <clever> MasterGeek: do you know if the CSI's data lanes are bi-directional?
[14:12] <lrvick> One of the reaons we can't just stick an intel chip on a blank baord and start hacking...
[14:12] <mru> zgreg: I agree, modern high-performance systems are not suitable for introductions to low-level programming
[14:13] <mru> I got my OS introduction on m68k
[14:13] <mru> no fancy setup needed
[14:13] <Croves> What tools do I need to star working with Raspberry? A voltmeter is enough?
[14:13] <trevorman> drogon: yeah. the latest Intel stuff needs a MEI firmware to boot and its signed so it can't be tampered with. no firmware blob in the BIOS = really big expensive paperweight
[14:13] <drogon> start again - go back to sparc or early ARMs, but the effort of getting the world to change in monumental...
[14:14] <Dyskette> Croves: 'working' in what sense?
[14:14] <Croves> Dyskette, powering on and writing some code...
[14:14] <MasterGeek> So why is it then that in places like S Korea they start with low level ? they dont get to see an OS until their 14
[14:14] <trevorman> Croves: you don't need a voltmeter for that
[14:14] <Dyskette> Croves: you don't really need a voltmeter then...
[14:15] <markllama> wow. I thought I was tough working with just an LCD and some toggle switches.
[14:15] <Croves> Yeah, I guess my question was a litle bit stupid hahaha I'm reading the FAQ and Starting Guide
[14:15] <trevorman> Croves: DVI/HDMI monitor + basic USB keyboard + basic USB mouse + externally powered USB hub + ethernet + 4GB or larger SD card
[14:16] <markllama> All you need is a decent USB power supply of some form, an HDMI display and an SD card, USB keyboard and mouse.
[14:16] <trevorman> Croves: oh and a SDHC card reader for your PC
[14:16] <drogon> right. spot of lunch time now.
[14:16] <markllama> Croves: well the multimeter is useful when creating a serial port connector ;-)
[14:16] <XenithOrb> I can confirm that logitech unifying receivers work fine as well
[14:16] <lrvick> Croves: Power, an ethernet cable, and sd card reader, and a computer you can ssh to it with.
[14:16] <Dyskette> You don't need a HDMI/DVI display if you use the composite out.
[14:16] <XenithOrb> (using one dongle/slot instead of two)
[14:16] <lrvick> I simply use ssh for everything
[14:16] <trevorman> Dyskette: much nicer to have it tho. the composite output is awful for X.
[14:17] <markllama> Dyskette: Yeah. And if you build the serial USB you don't even need that, but...
[14:17] <Dyskette> trevorman: probably. I use it mostly over SSH, and don't run X.
[14:17] * Commander1024 (~Commander@Commander1024-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Quit: Bye bye)
[14:17] <Dyskette> Still pretty excellent for video and emulators.
[14:17] <Croves> Can I plug a USB hub on Pi, connect a USB HHD and create a FreeNAS?
[14:17] <lrvick> until we get a real video driver, x is kind of painful to use on the pi
[14:18] <Dyskette> Croves: yep
[14:18] <lrvick> Croves: sure
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[14:18] * PiBot sets mode +v Commander1024
[14:18] <Croves> Hm, thanks for the info, guys. I guess I'll buy a Pi and start to play with...
[14:19] <MasterGeek> nid0, You wont believe the amount of people that have a "degree in embedded systems" that apply for jobs, havent got a god dam clue there doing
[14:19] <trevorman> Croves: don't expect blazing speed though. 100mbps ethernet that runs over USB and you'd be sharing that with your USB HD.
[14:21] <lrvick> MasterGeek: likewise in software engineers. I have to turn away most so called software engineers with masters degrees, because they can't program to save their lives, much less do they know their way around a unix based system. Many college software engineering programs just create microsoft monkeys.
[14:21] <Croves> trevorman, yeah.. I've already expect that, but this is not really big problem.
[14:21] * Milos|Work is now known as Milos
[14:21] <MasterGeek> lrvick, well thatsa because the start with an OS
[14:21] <tzarc> mmm, regurgitation of software concepts
[14:21] <tzarc> always fun to interview people with that approach
[14:22] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[14:22] <lrvick> MasterGeek: incorrect. It is because they hand them propriatary software, without ever letting them have a clue how it works.
[14:22] <markllama> The pi was designed for low cost with lots of compromises to make it functional and inexpensive. The point was to make the cost-available for teaching at the HS or first year college level and leave the students with their own lab hardware. There are commercial alternatives for higher cost but without many of the compromises. Has there been any indication from the Pi foundation about future directions with more capable designs?
[14:23] <lrvick> MasterGeek: I only learned hardware and microcontrollers over the last 2 years and have been doing fairly well in the software engineering world.
[14:23] <MasterGeek> well your the exception then
[14:23] <lrvick> MasterGeek: you don't need to know how a processor works to learn how to do web engineering, for instance. It all depends on the goals of a project.
[14:23] * phire (~phire@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[14:24] <XenithOrb> Does rasbmc have a channel somewhere?
[14:24] <clever> MasterGeek: do you know anything about the data lanes on the CSI and DSI connector?
[14:25] <lrvick> MasterGeek: I also have trained others this way. I don't evne let interns have a shell until they have built a kernel from scratch or installed gentoo without genkernel. just to prove that have some idea what is going on in their computer.
[14:25] <lrvick> MasterGeek: you can do a very long way without ever touching a microcontroller.
[14:25] <MasterGeek> well if the goal is to enable the next generation then you have to start at the lowest level possible. not just in with Win or Linux OS
[14:26] <teus_> im going to program the GPIO's in C. I do not understand why you need to set INP_GPIO and OUT_GPIO before GPIO_SET in the example code of
[14:26] <teus_> login as: thijs
[14:26] <markllama> there are overlapping domains of knowledge and influence. It often helps to have knowledge over the boundary into other realms and it's important not to dismiss the influences of things strictly outside of one realm on another. That said, it's not reasonable to expect everyone to know everything. It is reasonable to be more favorably inclined to people with some cururiosity.
[14:26] <teus_> thijs@satsuki.nl's password:
[14:26] <teus_> Linux teus 3.0.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Sat Aug 27 16:21:11 UTC 2011 x86_64
[14:26] <teus_> The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;
[14:26] <lrvick> MasterGeek: I disagree. You try writign a kernel driver for linux, or a patch. You will learn a lot about hardware fast.
[14:26] <teus_> the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
[14:26] <teus_> individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.
[14:26] <teus_> Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
[14:26] <teus_> permitted by applicable law.
[14:26] <teus_> Last login: Tue Aug 14 21:08:31 2012 from 178-117-88-146.access.telenet.be
[14:26] <teus_> im going to program the GPIO's in C. I do not understand why you need to set INP_GPIO and OUT_GPIO before GPIO_SET in the example code of http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals#GPIO_Driving_Example_.28C.29
[14:26] <teus_> thijs@teus:~$ screen -raAdU
[14:26] <teus_> uh oh sorry :(
[14:26] <lrvick> ....
[14:26] <sam> interesting mouse gesture
[14:26] <clever> teus_: atleast your password was hidden
[14:26] <tzarc> errrr paste gone wrong
[14:26] <clever> lrvick: what about http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ ?
[14:27] <lrvick> clever: i would also accept that.
[14:27] <tzarc> one of the guys at work managed to get paste on his mousewheel intermittently
[14:27] <tzarc> rather amusing
[14:27] <clever> lrvick: ive done it for my router, and while it does work, its a pain to maintain
[14:27] <lrvick> Another great things to do with software engineering interns
[14:27] <lrvick> take their mouse away.
[14:27] <sam> I once pasted a whole porn page on IRC
[14:27] <sam> was I proud
[14:27] <markllama> sam: it's good to have achievable goals.
[14:27] <clever> lrvick: all i use mouse for is copy/paste and firefox/skype
[14:27] <MasterGeek> i agree , but the task is even harder if your trying to do it with a soc thats theres no data sheets for the principal systems or full access to the registers, So the Pi, because of its attempt ot get the price down, kinda missed the point
[14:28] <clever> xterm and firefox have plenty of keyboard shortcuts
[14:28] <markllama> lrvick: I tend to want to take their GUI away completely.
[14:28] <MasterGeek> im up for that
[14:28] <lrvick> markllama: well i also make them do everything over ssh too
[14:28] <lrvick> markllama: sooo that helps
[14:28] <markllama> *grin*
[14:29] <MasterGeek> well at least they would know how it works
[14:29] <MasterGeek> hahah
[14:29] * markllama really is thinking about builting a proper pi lab.
[14:29] <clever> lrvick: i often use ssh for installing new systems, just so i can copy/paste from xorg on a working box
[14:29] <clever> same reason my pi is nearly headless
[14:29] <lrvick> and they cant even get ssh access until after they have completed a gentoo instlal, built their on kernel, and learned to generate an ssh keypair
[14:29] <lrvick> i dont allow password auth on my boxes either
[14:29] <MasterGeek> i wouldnt say HDMI was nearly headless
[14:30] <MasterGeek> :P
[14:30] <clever> MasterGeek: the only thing i use hdmi for is video playback, and it hasnt handled most of the codecs ive thrown at it
[14:30] <markllama> clever: I mostly work with mine with the serial USB plugged into one port and the power one in another. Occasionally I'll plug the net into the outbound net jack with a crossover cable.
[14:30] * Joe_KD2AKU (~Joe@ool-45708bc4.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:30] * PiBot sets mode +v Joe_KD2AKU
[14:30] <markllama> I *really* need to get blogging.
[14:30] <marcusw> clever: usb and power? you just FEEL THE TERM?
[14:30] <clever> markllama: most of my kernel dev is compiled on a decent box, then i copy the .ko over nfs
[14:30] <MasterGeek> clever, so write your own, oh hang on, you needs info for that task
[14:31] <lrvick> clever: Yeah i deploy all my remote systems fully over sshfrom scratch. I have the host put in a livecd for me and fire up ssh. I then proceed to build gentoo on them over ssh ^_^
[14:31] <markllama> clever: you're doing proper cross compilation?
[14:31] <clever> markllama: yeah, i just set ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi- and the kernel cross-builds just fine
[14:31] <lrvick> either cross compilition of distcc. both valid options
[14:31] <lrvick> or*
[14:32] * Out`Of`Control (~Viper@unaffiliated/outofcontrol/x-1373891) Quit (Quit: Terminated!)
[14:32] <markllama> I have to get that set up.
[14:32] <clever> markllama: under gentoo its trivial
[14:32] <tzarc> or just build a toolchain with crosstool-ng
[14:32] <markllama> I want to get a uboot on the pi partition 1 so I can lever it for PXE reboot
[14:32] <clever> markllama: crossdev -s0 arm-linux-gnueabi;crossdev -s1 arm-linux-gnueabi
[14:32] <tzarc> pretty painless
[14:32] <markllama> clever: ada;flkjasd;flkasdkasjdf;laksjdlakdfaklsjdfasdl;jf
[14:32] <clever> tzarc: yep, i now have half a dozen cross-compilers
[14:32] <markllama> pretty painless ;-)
[14:32] <clever> including one for my palm PDA
[14:33] * markllama has to internalize by repetition
[14:33] * tzarc nods
[14:34] * phire (~phire@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:34] * PiBot sets mode +v phire
[14:34] <tzarc> building a kernel with 12 cores on an i7 sure beats on-box :P
[14:34] <markllama> Unfortunately, learning to cross compile ARM is fairly low on my priority list.
[14:34] <clever> tzarc: i havent bothered rebuilding the kernel fully
[14:34] <markllama> tzarc++
[14:34] <marcusw> this is kind of a stupid question, but how come my home and end keys don't work when I ssh to my pi?
[14:34] <clever> i got Module.symvers from the firmware repo, and then built just one module
[14:34] <marcusw> (they just make ~)
[14:34] <tzarc> fair enough
[14:35] <tzarc> I used to actually have time to take a stab at doing custom kernels, ipv6 etc.
[14:35] <lrvick> once, before i nknew how to use cross compilers, i spent 2 weeks building gentoo on-chip.... on an Linksys NSLU2 NAS unit, which i had oveclocked to a blistering 266Mhz
[14:35] <tzarc> but been too busy with work for the last couple of months to pursue it
[14:35] <clever> lrvick: lol
[14:35] * marcusw built a custom kernel for his wii once...damn nonstandard apple keyboard
[14:35] <clever> lrvick: i did try to cross-compile mythtv, but the configure script is fighting me
[14:36] <clever> so i just gave up and started it on-chip
[14:36] <lrvick> building gcc rewquired me attaching a 4gb flash drive... just for swapping.
[14:36] <lrvick> that alone took days
[14:36] <tzarc> I had to install gentoo in a prefix at work, they make us use a specific distro with specific kernel with modified syscalls
[14:36] <tzarc> annoying as fuck
[14:36] <Dyskette> Heh, my first gentoo system was a P2, didn't have any faster boxes to do the compiling.
[14:36] <clever> lrvick: and what did you use to compile gcc?
[14:36] <Dyskette> Took like a week from stage1.
[14:36] <clever> ive only ever used stage3
[14:36] <drogon> teus_, the macros can only set bits, so you clear the bits you don't want then set the ones you do want.
[14:37] <tzarc> stage1 is fun :P
[14:37] <lrvick> clever: just the regular toolchain on the live-usb i was running from
[14:37] <Dyskette> It was also my first linux system, and I wanted to learn, so it seemed like a good way to do it.#
[14:37] <clever> teus_: how fast do you need to twiddle the pins?
[14:37] <lrvick> i dont even think stage1 is supported anymore
[14:37] <Dyskette> That's a shame.
[14:38] <drogon> teus_, programming from C might be easier to use a library - e.g. wiringPi. https://projects.drogon.net/raspberry-pi/wiringpi/
[14:38] <tzarc> I tend to use debian nowadays, don't have as much time to tinker :(
[14:38] <Dyskette> stage3 was really poorly supported back then, didn't even have a release schedule
[14:38] <tzarc> you know, full time job + overtime
[14:39] <Dyskette> tzarc: same.
[14:39] <Dyskette> Though, I'm unemployed right now, so maybe it's time to see what gentoo is like these days :P
[14:39] <lrvick> I use all gentoo systems... in production
[14:39] <tzarc> lol
[14:39] <lrvick> it is part of my job
[14:39] <lrvick> ^_^
[14:39] <tzarc> we're on OpenSUSE :S
[14:40] <tzarc> an OLD version
[14:40] <lrvick> im so... so sorry
[14:40] * tzarc grumbles
[14:40] <tzarc> it's old enough to be EOL, with no working repo's!
[14:40] <tzarc> didn't think that one through, did they?
[14:40] <lrvick> my company tried to pull that crap. I simply formatted machines and redid it all.
[14:40] * tzarc grumbles again
[14:41] <lrvick> When you know better: ignore your superiors and do it right. Their either a: fire you and its super easy to get anotehr job as sysadmin/software engineers are in super high demand or B: they see your effort and knowledge and promote you, or at least give you more freedom
[14:41] <tzarc> I wish I could, but we've got probably 50k+ machines all with the same spec to target
[14:41] <lrvick> never failed me
[14:41] <lrvick> 9/10 times doing what I know is right, and ignoring orders, has gotten me promoted
[14:42] <Peanut> Are sysadmins really in that high a demand nowadays?
[14:42] <lrvick> 1/10 it gets em fired, which is great. more time to find a better place to work
[14:42] <markllama> Peanut: it depends on where.
[14:42] * sutterCane (~Cane@g224000061.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:42] * PiBot sets mode +v sutterCane
[14:42] <tzarc> oh, we use cvs too.
[14:42] <lrvick> Peanut: ooooh yes. if you know how to sell yourself you can get 100-120k easy.
[14:42] <tzarc> /wrists
[14:42] <lrvick> But only linux sysadmins
[14:43] <markllama> lrvick: part of me wants to say "I'd fire you!" but the honest part admits that's what I've always done too.
[14:43] <lrvick> Window sysadmins the market is flooded
[14:43] <lrvick> windows*
[14:43] * SolderPI (~SolderPI@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:43] * PiBot sets mode +v SolderPI
[14:43] <tzarc> BUT DO YOU KNOW EXCHANGE
[14:43] <MasterGeek> Friend of mine just landed a 70k + car job hasnt even got a degree, but knows embedded systems inside out
[14:43] <tzarc> /facepalm
[14:43] <lrvick> Yeah. I have no degree. I technically don't even have a diploma.
[14:43] <Peanut> lrvick: unix/linux/(my)sql + routing and switching
[14:44] <tzarc> I've got a degree in a completely different field
[14:44] * tzarc shrugs
[14:44] <clever> i dont even have a grade 11, and i'm doing embedded system stuff in my spare time
[14:44] <lrvick> And i have done fairly well for myself doing work for many fortune 500 companies and on my 5th startup of my own now.
[14:44] <markllama> tzarc: They're just different jobs. USENIX/LISA and LOPSA are working hard to get recognition that "System Admin" doesn't mean "AD admin" but...
[14:44] <lrvick> degrees don't matter, diplomas don't matter... all that really mattes to most tech companies is that you can do the job.
[14:44] <lrvick> period.
[14:44] <lrvick> if you know a fsster way to learn than your school offers, then learn on your own.
[14:44] <MasterGeek> +++
[14:44] * tzarc has a paper saying he's a rocket scienties
[14:45] <tzarc> it'd help if I could spell too
[14:45] <marcusw> lol
[14:45] <clever> lrvick: i guess running a website with ~3000 users total counts too
[14:45] <markllama> tzarc: I've worked with rocket scientists. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to be a rocket scientist.
[14:45] <tzarc> no shit
[14:45] <tzarc> I'm proof of that
[14:45] <lrvick> its true
[14:45] <lrvick> honestly 90% of the job is confidence
[14:46] <clever> and half is not giving up, trial&error till it works
[14:46] <tzarc> and 10% "you don't know what the fuck you're doing, go away"
[14:46] <lrvick> ive learned most of what I know, by taking on challenges I have no idea how to solve, with the confidence that I will figure it out
[14:46] <lrvick> i generally do.
[14:46] <clever> tzarc: yep
[14:46] <markllama> The thing a (good) education gets you is breadth of coverage of topics. You can get lots of that on your own but it takes discipline
[14:46] <lrvick> sometimes it of course comes back to bite me, but even then i learn a lot
[14:46] <clever> tzarc: thats how i just did the cycle counter in arm assembly, and ive never seen arm assembly before :P
[14:46] <tzarc> critical thinking ability > ability to regurgitate
[14:46] * Patteh (~BOB@unaffiliated/patteh) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[14:46] <tzarc> that's all that matters whenever I hire people
[14:46] * Kevin_D (~pi@ has left #raspberrypi
[14:47] <tzarc> if you're smart, you can pick up the languages we use
[14:47] <sutterCane> is there a way to log into a shell/getty on my pi from another machine, so that i can see the output on a lcd connected to the pi?
[14:47] <clever> sutterCane: x0vncserver would be your best option i think
[14:47] <clever> sutterCane: it connects to the running X session and adds a vnc server
[14:47] <sutterCane> what if x is not available?
[14:48] <clever> i dont know of anything that would work directly on the text console
[14:48] <clever> but you can run screen, that would half work
[14:48] <lrvick> Yeah i write in a dozen progamming languages or so. There is no hacking challange I won't take on. Hell i even have a bit of code in the Linux kernel... But! being totlaly self educated by problem solving, i missed out on CS algorithimic notation. You write a complex CS algo on the board my mind goes '...'
[14:48] <lrvick> Which is problematic when working with acadmics.
[14:48] <clever> sutterCane: just run screen on the pi, and then ssh in and run screen -x
[14:48] <tzarc> lrvick: same here
[14:48] <tzarc> big O notation? get stuffed
[14:48] <lrvick> Sometiems i feel like the hard core jazz player... that cant read sheet music.
[14:48] <sutterCane> clever: thank you i will look into that. screen sounds promising :)
[14:49] <clever> sutterCane: i use screen on every system i run, it lets me share a single shell between systems and easily put it in the background, then resume it elsewhere
[14:49] <lrvick> tzarc: yeah if you ask me"what is the big o notation on each of these functions" no clue. If you ask me which one is fastest, no problem.
[14:49] <tzarc> tmux!
[14:49] <lrvick> tmux ++
[14:49] <clever> lrvick: yep, i dont know all the fancy names for things, i just make it work
[14:49] * lrvick is talking in weechat over tmux right now
[14:49] <clever> which is more important :P
[14:50] <marcusw> lrvick: yeah, that's the only reason I want to get a CS degree...
[14:50] <Peanut> lrvick: making it work is great, but publishing about it really gets you the brownie points in academia.
[14:50] <marcusw> also, funny thing...I use irssi and screen
[14:50] <lrvick> Screw that. I'll just brush up on algorithims. kahn acadamy just started their CS track
[14:50] <lrvick> looks like that might be a good option
[14:50] <lrvick> I wont go into debt learning information i can obtain freely
[14:51] <marcusw> oooh, you're right
[14:51] <markllama> lrvick: keep an eye on MITx as well.
[14:51] <Peanut> Writing a paper in LaTeX at the moment - on my RPI, to stay on-topic a bit. More than fast enough to compile LaTeX files, and I love how quiet it is *grin*
[14:51] <lrvick> I'll always be an autodidact. I retain more than way.
[14:51] <marcusw> but I didn't say "go into debt"...I said "get a degree" :p
[14:51] <lrvick> lol fair enough
[14:51] <markllama> lrvick: have you read Allen Downey's "Think *" books?
[14:51] <lrvick> i have not
[14:51] <marcusw> I see where you're coming from though
[14:52] <markllama> You're probably beyond "Think Python" but I bet the Stats and Complexity ones would be interesting reads for you
[14:52] <marcusw> if someone tried to teach me C, rather than teaching myself, I wouldn't be able to focus because I'd be exploring the language
[14:52] <lrvick> exactly
[14:52] <lrvick> which you should be
[14:52] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:52] * PiBot sets mode +v vipkilla
[14:52] <markllama> marcusw: If they're teaching you C, that's HOW they should be teaching you.
[14:52] <MasterGeek> Yer you can buy a degree from some obscure Uni in paraguy for $20 means the same thing
[14:52] <clever> i downloaded a copy of 'linux device drivers' a few years ago and read it cover to cover
[14:52] <lrvick> fact is if you go tos chool and just memorize a bunch of things, you will never survive in the real world. which sadly, is most of the people i see coming out of universities, which is why i cant hire them
[14:52] <clever> now i can easily modify and write kernel modules for the pi
[14:52] <markllama> MasterGeek: The paper isn't what matters, it's the work you put into it.
[14:52] <MasterGeek> yer
[14:53] <lrvick> however! If you learn by setting goals, then learning whatever it takes to make them happen.
[14:53] <MasterGeek> my point
[14:53] <lrvick> then you are much better equipped mentally.
[14:53] <marcusw> clever: that's awesome, I need to do that
[14:53] <markllama> Schools are good places to help good people learn in a focused way.
[14:53] <markllama> they don't help not-good people.
[14:53] <lrvick> I think schools do well for certian perosnality types perhaps.
[14:53] <clever> marcusw: i started by making a spdif driver, turns out the pi cant bit-bang spdif while keeping multi-tasking
[14:53] <marcusw> lrvick: no kidding...I learned some crazy advanced math (for my age) when I was 12 for a programming project I had going
[14:53] <tzarc> thing is though, the number of masters grad students I've interviewed that can't problem solve is astounding
[14:54] <clever> marcusw: it peaks at ~1mhz when multitasking, and i needed ~5mhz
[14:54] <lrvick> I would of flunked out of college had i stayed, out of sheer mental melting from the slowness of it all.
[14:54] <markllama> tzarc: the paper doesn't mean the person is good. You need both the paper (as a starting point) and the education which is what you dragged out of the school while you were there.
[14:54] <tzarc> oh exactly
[14:54] <marcusw> clever: yeah, makes sense
[14:54] <lrvick> I don't even read resumes. i give applicants challanges.
[14:55] <lrvick> if they pass the challanges
[14:55] <clever> marcusw: if you ignore scheduling completely, i can get ~22mhz
[14:55] <lrvick> i dont care about their background, i probably want them on my team.
[14:55] <lrvick> assuming they are not serial killers
[14:55] <clever> marcusw: so for burst type data, you can get pretty high speeds
[14:55] <lrvick> most academics hoever fail my challanges miserably.
[14:55] <markllama> you wouldn't hire me probably. Most "challenges" I've been given I looked at and said "that's stupid, later"
[14:55] <lrvick> they don't even try
[14:55] <marcusw> lrvick: give an example of a challenge, if you don't mind
[14:55] <markllama> interviewing is hard....
[14:55] <MasterGeek> The point of schools in the UK for the last 40 years has been a two tier system, In one part the students are simply taught conformity to authority, And in the Second part, They are taught to be the authority and to herd the conformers << these are the private schools the latter are the public ones
[14:56] <clever> marcusw: but at that point, i'm relying on the memory subsystem to add delays, and not changing a bit would cause it to run too fast
[14:56] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:56] <zgreg> hopefully the challenges aren't stupid questions like "why are manholes round?" ;)
[14:56] * markllama generally asks "what have you done recently that you thought was really cool? What turns your lights on?"
[14:56] * Aciid (aciid@unaffiliated/aciid) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:56] * PiBot sets mode +v Aciid
[14:56] <lrvick> For instance I ask an applicant to write a simple script that returns the current top 5 headlines from reddit.
[14:56] <lrvick> 5 lines of code, at most
[14:56] <clever> marcusw: the GPIO is outside of the core clock domain, so simply setting a pin causes a massive delay
[14:56] * harish (~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:56] <lrvick> and most of them intimidate themselves out of even trying
[14:57] <lrvick> ive only had 2 ever do it. it blows my mind
[14:57] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:57] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[14:57] <Aciid> has anyone received replies to inqueries from RS?
[14:57] <markllama> lrvick: My first thought is "I fail" but a second thought It's not too hard.
[14:57] <clever> lrvick: $source = file_get_contents('http://reddit.com'); preg_match('something',$source,$matches);var_dump($matches);
[14:57] <MasterGeek> lol RS
[14:57] <Aciid> I asked them to confirm my delivery date and din't get anything :\
[14:57] <clever> lrvick: there, 3 lines!
[14:57] <lrvick> whats worse! is i dont even make them do it on the spot. they get 2 days to get back to me with it.
[14:57] <zgreg> lrvick: hm, so you give the applicants a PC and the tools to solve the task?
[14:57] <markllama> but if someone asks me "what does the -n arg to ps(1) do?" My answer is "you're going to pay me too much to know that".
[14:57] <Aciid> I think im gonna go with farnell now
[14:57] <lrvick> if someone can't do that in 2 days, they are totally useless in real world software engineering
[14:57] <MasterGeek> lrvick, sounds about right
[14:57] <marcusw> lrvick: lol, I actually have code sitting right here to do just that
[14:58] <lrvick> yet most of the peopel with amsters degrees cant do it
[14:58] * BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[14:58] <lrvick> its scary, truly
[14:58] <marcusw> it's in python and it uses json parsing
[14:58] <zgreg> lrvick: haha
[14:58] <zgreg> lrvick: do you know the fizzbuzz test?
[14:58] <clever> lrvick: excep for the hard part (regex) it can be done in under 60 seconds :)
[14:58] <lrvick> clever: exactly!
[14:58] <tzarc> mmm, www.reddit.com/.json
[14:58] <tzarc> done
[14:58] <lrvick> clever: I fele like anyone decent should be able to do that on the spot
[14:58] <marcusw> urlfile = urllib.urlopen(baseurl)
[14:58] <marcusw> posts = json.load(urlfile)['data']['children']
[14:58] <lrvick> 2 days is a silly amount of time
[14:58] <lrvick> but that show far ive had to lower the bar
[14:58] <zgreg> fizzbuzz is said to filter out the 90% of crap applicants
[14:58] <clever> tzarc: that requires knowing that it has a json api, lol
[14:58] * vipkilla (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/t-dot-zilla/x-2830497) has left #raspberrypi
[14:58] <marcusw> add a [:4] to that and you've got it
[14:59] <tzarc> it took me 30 seconds to find a data interface
[14:59] <tzarc> if it takes them 2 days to fail
[14:59] * Weaselweb (~quassel@2001:6f8:9e4:123:21a:92ff:fe5a:1409) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[14:59] <tzarc> god help them
[14:59] <lrvick> even if you dont know the json api. you coudl beautiful soup it fast, or any number of other parsers.
[14:59] * Weaselweb (~quassel@2001:6f8:9e4:123:21a:92ff:fe5a:1409) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:59] <clever> tzarc: i didnt even think to try looking, was writing the source without even leaving irc
[14:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Weaselweb
[14:59] <marcusw> lrvick: so the question is, are you allowed to google?
[14:59] <lrvick> marcusw: of course!
[14:59] <marcusw> good
[14:59] <lrvick> i evne tell people "chating is totally allowed and encouraged""
[14:59] <tzarc> you're not going to stop them from googling if you give them 2 days, lol
[14:59] <marcusw> because if not, that would be stupid...
[14:59] <lrvick> cheating*
[14:59] <marcusw> wait
[15:00] <marcusw> you get two days?
[15:00] <lrvick> whatever it takes to get me a result, is fair game.
[15:00] <tzarc> cheating = leveraging other people's code = software engineering
[15:00] <clever> tzarc: i would never have even thought to try www.reddit.com/.json, the file is missing a filename! :P
[15:00] <zgreg> well a "test" where you don't have the typical programming tools available is crap - that is why whiteboard programming tests are so useless...
[15:00] <marcusw> I did this in an hour in a very pressured situation
[15:00] <tzarc> nah it's just a hidden dotfile :P
[15:00] <lrvick> Yeah this is all before the interview
[15:00] <marcusw> I mean, this plus a bunch of post-processing stuff as well
[15:00] <lrvick> i dont evne interview people that cant do this sort of thing
[15:00] <lrvick> which means i almost never do interviews
[15:00] <clever> tzarc: ah, didnt think that way, too used to .json as an extension
[15:01] <tzarc> it's all perception ;)
[15:01] <clever> yep
[15:01] <marcusw> now which company did you say you worked for?
[15:01] <MasterGeek> lol
[15:01] <tzarc> we make them write code to simulate poker hands on a console
[15:01] <tzarc> again, 2 days
[15:01] <lrvick> zgreg: yeah whiteboard stuf is also not real world. Applicatns should always be at least given a console, and a browser.
[15:01] <lrvick> and they can use those however they see fit
[15:01] <lrvick> to get the job done
[15:01] <lrvick> without supervision.
[15:02] <zgreg> yeah, that's a fine test
[15:02] * clever grabs ipod!
[15:02] <marcusw> console + browser...the window into the modern world
[15:02] <zgreg> I don't think I would be able to work well with a person standing behind my shoulders and watching every step I do :)
[15:03] <marcusw> neither would I
[15:03] <tzarc> I probably only do 30-45mins of work a day, in all honesty
[15:03] <marcusw> because I'm always afraid to jump workspaces for fear of what I left on the other one
[15:03] <tzarc> rest of it is firefighting other people's crap
[15:03] <lrvick> i dont do my work by the day, its by the week
[15:03] <lrvick> sometiems its a bunch everyday
[15:03] <lrvick> sometiems its nothing for days dreading a difficult problem
[15:03] <lrvick> then 2 all nighters
[15:03] * scriptx (~ryan@unaffiliated/ryann) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:03] <lrvick> making it happen
[15:04] * scriptx (~ryan@unaffiliated/ryann) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] * PiBot sets mode +v scriptx
[15:04] * UKB|Away is now known as unknownbliss
[15:04] <clever> tzarc: i may work 1 or 2 hours a day, then sit on the couch and watch netflix the rest
[15:04] <clever> some days i dont do any work
[15:04] <tzarc> well I've got a 9-5'er, so yeah, no couch, no netflix :P
[15:05] <clever> but the clients dont know, and are always impressed with new features that i just banged together in a 2 hour spree
[15:05] <tzarc> (although it's more of an 11-7'er :P)
[15:05] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[15:05] <clever> tzarc: no fixed hours for me, sleep/work whenever i want
[15:05] <tzarc> I do play games all day though... but that's the industry I'm in :P
[15:05] <clever> as long as the program works and gets new features every now and then, the clients keep paying
[15:05] <tzarc> sounds about right
[15:06] <clever> its mainly a database service, with a firefox extension to feed data into it
[15:06] <clever> ~3800 total users, spread across 3 virtual machines online
[15:06] <lrvick> clever: i have liek 19 hour days... so its random
[15:06] <lrvick> i woek up at midnight this morning
[15:07] <tzarc> fair enough, I do some of the engineering on slot machines
[15:07] <lrvick> sometimes im going to bed at 6am, others 6pm. whatevs
[15:07] <clever> i'm not sure when i woke up...
[15:07] <lrvick> tzarc: nice! I was reading about a group that reverse engineerd those via some code in a public patent application and could predict wins accuratly and made a fortune.
[15:07] <marcusw> how are you still sane?
[15:07] <clever> 2pm i think (its now 10am)
[15:08] <lrvick> TheBrayn: then apparntly you guys wised up and made better random number generators
[15:08] <lrvick> tzarc: *
[15:08] <tzarc> yeah they're all mersenne twisters and shit nowadays
[15:08] <marcusw> and THIS is why you don't use urandom! come on, people!
[15:08] <tzarc> I'm not allowed to touch that area :(
[15:08] <MasterGeek> better ? yer but still not random proper
[15:08] <tzarc> depends on the seeding process
[15:09] <MasterGeek> ?
[15:09] <tzarc> most of the maths behind them are quite depending on the "predictability" of the PRNG
[15:09] <tzarc> dependent*
[15:09] <lrvick> This is literally my sleep schedule, more or less: http://xkcd.com/320/
[15:09] <clever> now its time for some user-support!, brb
[15:10] <clever> lrvick: lol, similar here
[15:10] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@dhcp-12.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[15:10] <MasterGeek> so, if your still using math in a more complex way to get the seed, its still not random proper
[15:10] <MasterGeek> just more complex
[15:10] <tzarc> I never said it was truly random
[15:10] <tzarc> it needs to be repeatable
[15:10] <lrvick> i like how arduinos random generator works. just listend to random electircal noise on a disconected pin.
[15:10] <lrvick> lol
[15:11] <tzarc> for regulatory purposes everything needs to be recorded, RNG seeds included
[15:11] <marcusw> lrvick: ...but how random is that data?
[15:11] <lrvick> yeah if it was truly random you could end up having a month where most people win and bankrupt the casino.
[15:11] <lrvick> you want it controllable enough to were only 1 in x number of peopel win
[15:12] <lrvick> but complex enough that its nearly impossible to reverse engineer
[15:12] <tzarc> all the maths is dependent on relative randomness over a few billion uses of the PRNG
[15:12] <MasterGeek> there is a cheap hardware solution to proper random num generation around 2$ which generates pure none liner random numbers as big s you like
[15:12] <marcusw> lrvick: I've got one of these sitting on my desk, FWIW: http://robseward.com/misc/RNG2/
[15:13] <tzarc> so how does one verify HOW that RNG result was generated?
[15:13] <lrvick> nice
[15:14] <marcusw> it looks gorgeous on a scope
[15:14] <marcusw> think I'll hook it to a rpi and make a random.org clone
[15:15] <MasterGeek> yer, same thing, sample real world sound at any given moment
[15:15] <tzarc> Prize determination shall: b). be exclusively a consequence of the outcome of a computer based RNG in conjunction with the
[15:15] <tzarc> prevailing payout table and rules of the game
[15:15] * rpvl (~rpvl@pickles.tp.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:15] * PiBot sets mode +v rpvl
[15:17] <rpvl> hi! has anyone tried to connect an iPod touch screen to the DSI connector on the raspberry pi? Is it possible?
[15:18] <trevorman> no. in theory yes. nobody has done it as you need a DSI driver we don't have yet and quite likely the datasheets for the LCD itself which we also don't have.
[15:18] <TheBrayn> lrvick: 4
[15:19] <trevorman> DSI isn't plug in and go like DVI/HDMI
[15:19] <lrvick> next thing im doing... is try and figure out a way to read data from a wiimote nunchuck using the pi and python
[15:19] <lrvick> should be doable
[15:19] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:19] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[15:19] <lrvick> its i2c
[15:19] * traeak (~bolsen@75-151-91-165-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has left #raspberrypi
[15:20] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@c-24-20-238-67.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:20] * PiBot sets mode +v emilepetrone
[15:20] * swat (~swat@ubuntu/member/swat) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[15:21] * mikey_w (~mike@va-76-6-216-109.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:22] <rpvl> trevorman: thanks. So i have to find out another way to get a cheap and small screen for the pi. I'm running it as headless server, but a small portable screen would be useful for debugging boot problems
[15:23] <trevorman> there are small reasonably inexpensive composite TVs available but not sure about any HDMI/DVI ones
[15:23] <tzarc> think it's time for bed, dreaded 6am conference call because americans can't do timezone conversion
[15:23] <tzarc> ugh
[15:23] <markllama> depends on your definitions.
[15:23] <tzarc> night folks
[15:24] <Croves> morning, buddy
[15:24] <lrvick> rpvl: I have a fairly small screen on mine: http://i.imgur.com/oUXFO.jpg
[15:24] <lrvick> ^_^
[15:26] <rpvl> lrvick: that looks awesome! do you have any guide on how to assemble something like that?
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[15:27] * PiBot sets mode +v PigFlu
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[15:27] * PiBot sets mode +v localhost
[15:27] * localhost (~IceChat9@cpe-76-188-161-222.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[15:27] <PigFlu> isnt the root password supposed to be "root"?
[15:27] <markllama> depends on the distro.
[15:27] <Jck_true> lrvick: Nice work there
[15:28] <lrvick> we just cut the cases on our laser cutter. We put the design on thingiverse here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:26164 and i put the driver i wrote on github: https://github.com/lrvick/raspi-hd44780
[15:28] <markllama> a number of them disable root login in favor of 'pi/raspberry' and sudo
[15:28] <MasterGeek> lrvick, +
[15:28] <lrvick> @ rvalles
[15:28] <lrvick> woops
[15:28] <lrvick> @rpvl
[15:29] <lrvick> oh he left
[15:29] <PigFlu> markllama: raspbian
[15:30] <markllama> I'm pretty sure that has direct root login disabled.
[15:30] <PigFlu> i cant cd to my usb-drive in /media/
[15:30] <PigFlu> permission denied :/
[15:30] <Jck_true> PigFlu: Permissions
[15:30] <markllama> dang, I unplugged my pi last night to hook up my wife's laptop so we could watch back eps of Warehouse 13 and never put it back.
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[15:31] * PiBot sets mode +v DarkTherapy
[15:31] <PigFlu> Jck_true: ?
[15:31] <rpvl> lrvick: nice
[15:31] <Jck_true> PigFlu: sudo chmod 777 /media/YOUR_DRIVE/
[15:31] <PigFlu> im scared of doing that..
[15:31] <PigFlu> i have 1.2 TB of movies on there..
[15:32] <Jck_true> I don't get this :S I just build libCEC from bottom - And now it complains about finding libcec.so.1 :S
[15:32] <ne2k> Jck_true: did you install it? did you run ldconfig after installing it?
[15:33] <Jck_true> yeah i ran make install
[15:33] <lrvick> chmod 777 is never a good solution for ... anything
[15:33] <ne2k> Jck_true: the other bit?
[15:33] <Jck_true> lrvick: Hey - If a hammer gets your car running whats wrong with using it? :)
[15:34] <lrvick> touche
[15:34] <Jck_true> ne2k: Thanks ldconfig did it :S I don't even know what tool that is
[15:34] <MasterGeek> lolyer, i bet thats whewre 90% of them will end up too. Gaffa taped to the back of a tv, SMB, to media , nd thats where they will stay
[15:34] <cornflake> Jck_true: the starter
[15:34] <cornflake> :P
[15:35] * mischat (~mischat@93-97-51-125.zone5.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:35] * PiBot sets mode +v mischat
[15:35] * kaptainkibosh (~kaptainki@unaffiliated/kaptainkibosh) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[15:35] <ne2k> Jck_true: I suggest you don't recommend that people chmod 777 things without them understanding what they're doing
[15:36] <Jck_true> ne2k: Fair point
[15:37] <mischat> been away for 6 weeks, and have been using my raspberrypi as a proxy whilst backpacking, and it didn't crash once, it is so awesomely awesome :)
[15:38] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@eduroam-wireless-pat6.nomadic.bris.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:38] * PiBot sets mode +v MikeJ1971
[15:40] <booyaa> mischat: using ssh as a socks proxy or actually putting a proxy on it as well like squid?
[15:41] * pretty_function (~iHackiOS@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[16:17] <drogon> when you check something out via git from a remote repo. is it normally via http:// ?
[16:17] <markllama> is that a general question?
[16:17] <drogon> yes, in-general.
[16:18] <xarragon> drogon: ssh is the default on unix systems I belive
[16:18] <markllama> If I'm grabbing something I don't have push access, yeah, either git: or https:
[16:18] <markllama> If I'm working on my own it's all git: (which is really ssh)
[16:18] <xarragon> markllama: ah, I see
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[16:18] * PiBot sets mode +v thrawed
[16:18] <drogon> yea, this is fr people to just check out some data without push/update.
[16:19] <markllama> in that case it doesn't really matter. Which ever is easiest for the pull person.
[16:19] <drogon> guess it will need to be http(s) as they won't have ssh access.
[16:19] <markllama> drogon: from a private service?
[16:20] <clever> drogon: github should allow pull without auth over ssh
[16:20] <clever> though i havent verified, ive always had my keys setup
[16:20] <drogon> not sure of the terminology - looking initially to just mimic http fetches of a tar.gz type file, but have the files not tarred up I guess.
[16:20] <drogon> so anonymous get/clone?
[16:21] <clever> http(s):// usualy has no auth on it
[16:21] <drogon> that's fine -
[16:21] <drogon> looking to allow read-only checkouts by anonymous people...
[16:21] <markllama> drogon: are you setting up your own? ok.
[16:21] <drogon> yes, running my own.
[16:21] <markllama> which git service (or just plain)
[16:21] <drogon> hosting it on my own servers.
[16:22] <clever> drogon: lately, i dont even bother with that, i just use github
[16:22] <drogon> I don't know what service yet - looked at the gitweb front-end.. ?
[16:22] <markllama> The one I set up for myself I used gitosis, and I think it has an http mode.
[16:22] <markllama> yeah, keep looking for the option that fits what you want
[16:22] <drogon> it will be on my own servers.
[16:22] * markllama agrees and just uses github now.
[16:25] * Bryanstein (~Bryanstei@shellium/admin/bryanstein) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[16:44] <drogon> ok. I have wiringPi in a private git repository now on my server, now to work out how to provide anonymouse access...
[16:46] * DarkTherapy (~darkther4@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[16:52] <clever> hmmm, seems my pi crashed the ps3@
[16:53] <clever> the cec interface on the ps3 has been dead for days, since playing with libcec
[16:53] <clever> had to cut power to the ps3 to fix it
[16:53] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[16:54] <mru> you connected a pi to a ps3?
[16:54] <mru> what good would that possibly do?
[16:54] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:54] <clever> mru: nope, both are connected to the same tv
[16:54] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[16:55] <clever> the pi crashed the ps3, thru the tv's cec link
[16:55] <mru> ok, that makes more sense
[16:55] <clever> and the cec controller in the ps3 seems to never shut off
[16:55] <clever> so it remained crashed until i cut power
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[16:55] * PiBot sets mode +v localhost
[16:56] <mru> isn't that how cec is meant to work
[16:56] <mru> not the crashing, of course
[16:56] <clever> cec isnt meant to lock up solid and cease functioning :P
[16:56] <mru> but being always active
[16:56] <clever> yeah
[16:56] <mru> remove wakeup and all that
[16:56] <clever> and the pi probly cant do that
[16:56] <mru> remote
[16:56] * Killerkid (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:56] * PiBot sets mode +v Killerkid
[16:56] <trevorman> CEC sounds like USB when it first came out. Just wait another 2-3 years and I'm sure it'll all work great by then >.>
[16:57] <mru> just like usb...
[16:57] <clever> trevorman: half the issue is the hdmi switch box
[16:57] <clever> i havent verified, but i dont think it supports cec
[16:57] <clever> yet it switches automaticaly, sometimes to the right input
[16:57] <clever> often, it switches to the wrong input (dvd/sound system)
[16:58] * MauveGnome (~MauveGnom@host-92-21-163-36.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[16:58] <mru> some day I'll get a new av receiver with hdmi switching...
[16:58] <clever> mru: this is just a dumb box with 5 hdmi ports, 4 led's and 1 big button
[16:59] <clever> when i use 'scan' in libCEC, all the devices on the switcher claim to be at psysical address
[16:59] <clever> but if i understand the protocol, it should be 2.x.0.0, with different x's
[17:00] <mru> a dumb switcher would do me no good since my av receiver has no hdmi at all
[17:00] <clever> my STB has dvi-d out, and no cec support
[17:00] <clever> one thing id like to do, is use lirc_rpi (it works) and libCEC to make a ir remote for the dumb switch box
[17:01] <clever> if it even understands cec...
[17:01] * scummos (~sven@p57B1AAC2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:01] * PiBot sets mode +v scummos
[17:02] <clever> ah, i just figured out why the ir blaster isnt working
[17:02] * kvarley (~kevin@unaffiliated/kvarley) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:02] <clever> 3v3, not 5v!
[17:02] <clever> *redoes math*
[17:02] * joxer (~fracchio@li474-10.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:02] * PiBot sets mode +v joxer
[17:03] <clever> 2.3mA of current, not sure if that will do any good
[17:03] * Bryanstein (~Bryanstei@shellium/admin/bryanstein) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:03] * PiBot sets mode +v Bryanstein
[17:03] <scummos> Hi there! How fast can one hope to read data from the GPIO pins? Could something like 40MHz be achievable?
[17:03] <clever> scummos: the best i managed was ~22mhz, and that blocks all multi-tasking
[17:04] * Croves (~Croves@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:04] * Killerkid (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:04] <scummos> clever: okay, thanks -- probably "blocks multi-tasking" means that there's no cycles left to write the data being read to a storage device, or process it in some way?
[17:04] <scummos> /s/read/written
[17:04] <clever> scummos: yeah, it was 3 assembly instructions, infinite loop
[17:04] <scummos> okay
[17:04] <clever> if you did it in bursts, you could stop to do disk io
[17:05] <drogon> Raspberry Pi running on 48GB of RAM: http://twitpic.com/ak51h8
[17:05] <joxer> lol
[17:05] <clever> scummos: 5ms of burst, then wait for the disk, repeat
[17:05] <scummos> how long could those bursts be? if you did it in an infinite loop, I assume you didn't even write the data to RAM?
[17:05] <[SLB]> "on" lol
[17:05] <drogon> scummos, you'll never be able to guarantee accurate timings though...
[17:06] <scummos> yes, that would have been the next question :)
[17:06] <clever> drogon, scummos: using the cycle counter you may get semi-acurate timing
[17:06] <drogon> the gpu still blocks the RAM from time to time.
[17:06] <clever> i believe the cycle counter is just counting up at 800mhz
[17:06] <clever> so you can effectively timestamp every sample
[17:06] <drogon> there is programmable timer which I program to 1MHz in the latest wiringPi...
[17:06] <clever> drogon: ah, didnt think about that issue
[17:06] <drogon> it can run faster though.
[17:07] * sutterCane (~Cane@g224000061.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:07] <drogon> clever, AIUI, the GPU goes video refresh and generic dram type refresh, but they may be linked...
[17:07] <clever> drogon: 1mhz is the best i got with while (1) {toggle pins;schedule();} in kernel
[17:07] <scummos> hm, 20MHz is probably too slow for my plan anyways... I'd need to do ~10MHz sampling for at least four or five channels
[17:07] <drogon> scummos, build an fpga...
[17:07] <trevorman> the kernel we've got isn't a realtime one so you'll find interrupt latency is all over the place. if your measurements can cope with that then it is okay but if you must stick to a rigid schedule then no chance.
[17:07] <clever> scummos: if the channels share a register, you can read 4 channels at once
[17:08] <trevorman> disabling USB will probably help as well
[17:08] <trevorman> since that hammers the CPU with interrupts normally
[17:08] <drogon> 8K/sec
[17:08] <trevorman> yeah
[17:08] <scummos> I'd probably need a realtime kernel... timing needs to be somewhat accurate
[17:08] <drogon> I suspect the pi just isn't the right platform for you.
[17:09] <scummos> yes, probably
[17:09] <clever> scummos: i think you can disable interupts for a short while, from a kernel module
[17:09] <clever> effectively giving total control (other the gpu stealing ram)
[17:09] <drogon> Even the things like the DSO Quad have a separate fpga to do the sampling... the arm just does the display...
[17:09] <scummos> (I want to compare the phases of two ~5 MHz signals)
[17:09] <scummos> (or rather, five or more such signals)
[17:09] <clever> ah
[17:09] <drogon> not onn PI ;-)
[17:10] <scummos> but the 5 MHz is after mixing it down from ~430MHz
[17:10] <clever> yeah, you would have trouble
[17:10] <scummos> okay
[17:10] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@eduroam-wireless-pat6.nomadic.bris.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[17:10] <scummos> neverthereless, thanks for the info! much appreciated :)
[17:10] <trevorman> scummos: how long you need to sample this for?
[17:10] <trevorman> is it going to be a continuous process or will you just be doing short samples every so often?
[17:10] <drogon> and here's me working on an audio frequency 'scop type app and thinking 16KHz is going to be good enough (32KHz sampling)
[17:10] * joxer (~fracchio@li474-10.members.linode.com) has left #raspberrypi
[17:10] <scummos> trevorman: actually, it would be sufficient to compare get all the phase differences between all the signals once, after that there could be an arbitrary break
[17:10] <trevorman> the hardware from the http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Open_Bench_Logic_Sniffer is capable of doing what you want and you can always alter the FPGA if you need something more
[17:11] <scummos> why is my grammar so broken today
[17:11] <scummos> I wanted to say "it would be sufficient to compare all the phases between the signals"
[17:12] <scummos> okay, I'll have a look at that trevorman -- thanks!
[17:12] <clever> scummos: if your sampling a 5mhz signal at 10mhz, with digital pins, thats only 2 samples per cycle, and with a high&low per cycle, i dont see how you would really get relative phase at all
[17:13] <clever> it would either be in phase, or out by 90(i think)
[17:13] <clever> thats the best you would get
[17:13] <scummos> would need to be a bit more than twice, like with 12MHz sampling
[17:13] <scummos> over a few periods, that would reveal the phase of the signal, wouldn't it?
[17:13] <clever> that might be doable, and you would DEF want to sample all the pins at once
[17:14] <clever> or the time delay betwen samples (its relatively long) would give you a false phase diff
[17:14] <scummos> yes, that's crucial
[17:14] <scummos> the measurement has to be simultaneous
[17:14] <scummos> well, or the delay must be guaranteed to be constant -- then it doesn't matter
[17:14] <clever> i believe you can read atleast 4 gpio at once with no issue
[17:14] <scummos> okay
[17:15] <clever> but the delay between 2 samples will be very hard to control
[17:15] <drogon> You
[17:15] <clever> better to just use an fpga
[17:15] * Patteh (~BOB@unaffiliated/patteh) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:15] * PiBot sets mode +v Patteh
[17:15] <drogon> you can read 32 gpio pins at once.
[17:15] <scummos> oh cool, okay
[17:15] <clever> drogon: ah, i was wondering if the registers are 32bit
[17:15] <trevorman> the GPIO pins aren't sequential though
[17:16] <drogon> there are 56 gpio pins - some are used by e.g. the SD card, etc. but they're in 2 lots of 32-bit registers.
[17:16] <drogon> trevorman, yes, that's an issue...
[17:16] <scummos> assuming one had a realtime kernel running, would the delay between two subsequent reads be predictable?
[17:16] <clever> *looks*
[17:16] * prpplague (~danders@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:16] * PiBot sets mode +v prpplague
[17:16] <drogon> scummos, unlikely due to the memory refresh and gpu.
[17:16] <scummos> okay
[17:17] <clever> scummos: would an acurate timestamp on every sample help cancle out the jitter in the delays?
[17:17] <clever> drogon, trevorman: i dont see any gpio over 32 on the header
[17:17] * snuffeluffegus (~snuffeluf@ps95204.dreamhost.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:17] * PiBot sets mode +v snuffeluffegus
[17:17] <clever> so the entire header can be sampled with one register i believe
[17:17] <scummos> if the timestamp was accurate enough... that would probably be fine
[17:18] <clever> scummos: i believe this register is counting the cycles on the clock core, ~800mhz
[17:18] <clever> let me paste the code somewhere
[17:18] <scummos> ah, that sounds useful
[17:18] <drogon> clever, no - because not all are brought out - I meant that the BCM chip has 56 GPIO pins in total, but some are used for other stuff ...
[17:19] <drogon> clever, yes - one read to get them all, then pick the bits out.
[17:20] <clever> drogon: yeah, the first bank covers every pin on the header (and some not)
[17:20] <drogon> I think that even if you sat in a loop, with interrupts turned off, you'd still see jitter due to the memory refersh/gpu interfering.
[17:20] <drogon> this is just from glancing through the pi analyser project thing on the forums though.
[17:20] <clever> yeah, that cant be avoided, but it can be calculated out if you timestamp each sample
[17:20] <clever> and know the right math
[17:20] <scummos> what I ultimately want to do is measure the phases of n ~400MHz signals from n antennas (n will be something like 8 at most), then calculate an interference pattern. I was planning to mix the 400MHz signal down to something more manageable (this will keep the phase differences), but I don't think I can get it too small because the oscillator will not be stable enough at some point
[17:21] <drogon> it would hanve your read speed - one read to get the data, one read to get the timer, store each, repeat...
[17:21] <drogon> *halve
[17:21] <clever> drogon: i believe reading the gpio is costing me 100's of cycles (or more)
[17:21] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@CPE-58-164-167-4.lnse4.woo.bigpond.net.au) Quit ()
[17:22] <clever> while the timer is a coprocessor (unknown speed)
[17:22] <clever> and storing is the l1/l2 cache
[17:22] <drogon> clever, from C? surprising...
[17:22] <clever> drogon: c in kernel
[17:22] <drogon> clever, or maybe there's some slow-down when reading hardware IO rather than memory...
[17:22] <drogon> clever, the kernel has nothing to do with reading the gpio...
[17:22] <clever> drogon: if i understand things right, the gpio is on the memory bus, outside the cpu core
[17:23] <clever> so its effectively running at the same speed as the ram
[17:23] <clever> much like the FSB in an x86
[17:23] <drogon> it's memory mapped, but I think it's all decoded internally.
[17:23] <mru> the internal bus doesn't need to be the same speed as ram
[17:23] <mru> in general
[17:23] <drogon> it ought to be faster..
[17:23] * highcenter (~highcente@unaffiliated/highcenter) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:23] <clever> mru: but is it at 800mhz?
[17:23] * PiBot sets mode +v highcenter
[17:23] <mru> no idea about this particular chip
[17:23] <mru> definitely not
[17:23] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:23] <clever> that would explain why i only got 22mhz in a solid loop
[17:23] <mru> I would say it's no more than 200MHz
[17:24] <clever> scummos: http://pastebin.com/dbUmWm1Y
[17:24] <drogon> 22MHz in C or assembler?
[17:24] <clever> scummos: that code will enable the cycle counter and allow you to read it, with a link to the docs
[17:24] <clever> drogon: assembler, 3 instructions including the inf loop
[17:24] <mru> what kind of ram does it have?
[17:24] <mru> ah, mobile ddr2
[17:24] <drogon> clever, wow. surprised it's that slow - I can poke it at about 20MHz from C ...
[17:25] <scummos> clever: cool, thanks
[17:25] <clever> drogon: yeah, surprised me too, i'm used to things like the avr that can set a gpio in 1 clock cycle
[17:25] <clever> scummos: i havent tested yet, but that code may work in userspace
[17:25] <drogon> clever, it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of interlocking going on between the arm and the gpu but who knows for sure...
[17:25] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:25] * PiBot sets mode +v halfhalo
[17:25] <clever> though you cant block irq then
[17:25] * cornflake (whatcorn@c-68-60-210-113.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ()
[17:26] <drogon> thought a root program can turn off irq's at any point?
[17:26] <clever> drogon: never seen that done from userspace
[17:26] <clever> but as root, you can just insmod a driver and do so from the kernel
[17:26] <scummos> clever: to be honest, I didn't buy a pi yet, since I'm still considering whether it'll work for my purpose :)
[17:26] <mru> drogon: no, only kernel can disable or enable interrupts
[17:26] <clever> scummos: let me do a few quick checks on my end
[17:27] <mru> from the hw point of view, root is nothing special
[17:27] <scummos> guess I should just buy one and test whether it works or not
[17:28] <clever> scummos: i can get some acurate timings in a min
[17:28] * youlysses (~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:28] <scummos> very cool, thanks
[17:29] * MjrTom (MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:29] * PiBot sets mode +v MjrTom
[17:30] <mru> what is the ddr clock on this thing?
[17:30] <drogon> right. time to go.... narnia then home.
[17:30] <drogon> laters.
[17:30] <clever> scummos: oops, printed 2000 lines to serial!
[17:30] <clever> lol
[17:31] * drogon (~gordonDro@ Quit (Quit: Laptop sleeping)
[17:31] * Neutron5 (~neutron@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[17:31] <scummos> haha
[17:32] <clever> [46407.223554] set 78 clear 50
[17:32] <clever> if the code worked right, it took 78 clock cycles to set a gpio pin, and 50 to clear it
[17:32] <scummos> okay
[17:32] <clever> let me nop it out and see if its faster
[17:33] <scummos> strictly speaking, that's output, not input, isn't it?
[17:33] <clever> [46461.874893] set 8 clear 8
[17:33] <clever> scummos: yeah, but it should be identical both ways
[17:33] <scummos> okay
[17:34] <clever> scummos: http://pastebin.com/6VM7Qxst
[17:34] <clever> when the 2 set calls are commented out, 1000 loops averages out to 8 cycles acording to this register
[17:34] <scummos> okay
[17:34] <clever> so thats 8 cycles to just read the register twice and store it in variables
[17:34] <scummos> plus 70/42 to access the pins
[17:35] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:35] <clever> setting and clearing took 78 and 50 cycles, when using the proper libgpio (overhead!)
[17:35] <scummos> so a data rate above 10M samples per secound will be unlikely
[17:35] <clever> libgpio doesnt allow reading several pins at once
[17:35] <clever> let me see what freq its causing
[17:35] <scummos> hm okay, do you think one could read all pins simulataneously at a comparable speed?
[17:36] <clever> if you skip the libgpio and read the register directly, you can easily get 10mhz
[17:36] <clever> but a stable 10mhz, i dont know
[17:36] <scummos> okay
[17:36] <scummos> so if I managed to get my signal to, like, 1MHz it could work
[17:36] * virunga (~virunga@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:36] * PiBot sets mode +v virunga
[17:36] <clever> yeah, 1mhz would make it easyer
[17:37] <scummos> but it would require a local oscillator with ~400MHz which is accurate to significantly less than 1MHz... I don't have much experience there, I don't know how realistic that is
[17:38] <clever> [46736.811704] set 62 clear 66
[17:38] <clever> [46750.588861] set 58 clear 50
[17:38] <clever> [46762.500569] set 78 clear 50
[17:38] <clever> seems to be some minor changes in how stable the sample takes
[17:40] <clever> scummos: hmm, that code in the pastebin made a ~5mhz waveform
[17:40] <clever> once i uncommented the sets
[17:41] <scummos> hmm
[17:41] * aphadke (~Adium@c-71-198-5-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] * PiBot sets mode +v aphadke
[17:41] <clever> but most of that may be the libgpio, i'm surprised its even under 100
[17:41] <clever> *looks*
[17:41] * clever punches windows
[17:42] <scummos> because what? :D
[17:42] <clever> laggy as hell
[17:42] <clever> i cant even open a new tab in chrome without the mouse hanging
[17:43] <clever> there, mouse right into linux, take that!
[17:43] <clever> oh, and firefox crashed, lol, *restarts*
[17:43] * mikey_w (~mike@va-76-6-216-109.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:43] <clever> lol
[17:43] <clever> windows just made the usb disconnect sound
[17:43] <scummos> "fun with operating systems"
[17:44] <clever> a whole 60 seconds late
[17:45] <clever> scummos: https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-patches/arch/arm/mach-bcm2708/bcm2708_gpio.c#L118
[17:45] <clever> i believe ->set in my code is a function pointer to this
[17:45] <clever> which gives you an idea of what that 58-78 cycle delay is
[17:46] * inane (~inane@unaffiliated/inane) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:46] * PiBot sets mode +v inane
[17:46] <scummos> so it's quite possible the delay comes from software overhead
[17:46] <scummos> or at least part of it
[17:46] <clever> scummos: yeah, part of it
[17:46] <clever> i was trying to do raw gpio, then i scrambled my ext4 journal
[17:46] <scummos> haha
[17:46] <clever> read will be much safer
[17:47] <clever> you can use libgpio and all its overhead to set it as input
[17:47] <scummos> ... and then do the reads manually
[17:47] <clever> then read the registers directly, that should be safe if you mess up
[17:47] <scummos> I can just backup the hard drive ;P
[17:47] <clever> ok, why do i hear screaming....
[17:48] <clever> oh, the discovery.ca link i clicked 10 minutes ago
[17:48] <clever> it just now opened....
[17:48] <scummos> clever: would this method or a similar one allow to read multiple registers simultaneously?
[17:48] * scummos hates every website that makes noise
[17:48] <clever> scummos: i believe the register is 32 bits wide, and has gpio pins 0 thru 31
[17:49] <scummos> ah, so actually every read to the GPIO will read all pins
[17:49] <clever> yeah
[17:49] <scummos> cool
[17:49] <clever> the gpio lib just masks and shifts out the target one
[17:49] <scummos> yes
[17:49] * Weaselweb (~quassel@2001:6f8:9e4:123:21a:92ff:fe5a:1409) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:49] <scummos> I could actually do that later on a better computer
[17:49] * Holden (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[17:50] <scummos> or, well, during the pauses between the measurements
[17:50] <clever> no need, you could just allocate a buffer in ram to hold say 200 or 2000 samples
[17:50] <clever> then just blindly read the whole 32bit thing until its full
[17:50] <clever> then turn irq back on and post-process it on the pi
[17:50] <scummos> yes
[17:51] <scummos> so I *can* turn off the interrupt handler?
[17:51] <clever> from a kernel module, yes
[17:51] * AC`97 (~pzzt@50-0-74-137.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:51] * PiBot sets mode +v AC`97
[17:51] <scummos> but that will still not guarantee that each instruction takes n cycles
[17:51] <clever> but the gpu may still borrow the ram on ocasion and cause unwanted latency
[17:51] <scummos> okay
[17:51] <clever> you could read the cycle counter before&after like my example
[17:51] <clever> and have a solid value of how long it took to sample
[17:51] <scummos> and I guess I can't just shut the GPU down, as I don't need it anyways?
[17:51] <clever> no clue
[17:51] <scummos> yes, that's a good thing in either case
[17:52] <clever> but text console is going to use much less ram then graphical
[17:52] <scummos> well I will not be using graphical for sure :)
[17:52] <AC`97> framebuffer.
[17:52] <clever> framebuffer would cause more gpu traffic
[17:52] <AC`97> and the text console is a framebuffer, right??
[17:52] <mru> you don't need to use any display console
[17:53] <clever> oh, yeah, probly cant get away from it
[17:53] <scummos> I guess the GPU stack is not smart enough to just do nothing if there's no screen attached? ;p
[17:53] <clever> scummos: composite devices cant be detected
[17:53] <clever> and if theres no hdmi, it falls back to composite
[17:53] <scummos> ok
[17:54] <scummos> well, I guess I'll just buy one and test it out. it's far easier than the alternative
[17:54] <clever> so you would likely need room in the buffer for 3 32bit samples, 2 timestamps and 1 gpio register
[17:54] <scummos> (which is something like buying a 25MHz ADC and hand-soldering it somewhere)
[17:54] * t7 (~chatzilla@mailgate.ips-international.com) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner])
[17:54] <clever> scummos: have you looked at gnuradio at all?
[17:54] <scummos> no, what's that?
[17:54] <clever> scummos: hardware to do exactly this
[17:55] <scummos> software radio sounds like 100MHz
[17:55] <clever> it can recieve/tx anything from dc to nearly 6ghz, downmix it to a target, then adc the hell out of it
[17:55] <clever> basicaly the same as your doing, but pre-made
[17:56] * PyroPeter (~pyropeter@unixboard/users/pyropeter) Quit (Quit: "I mock thee, cat")
[17:56] <clever> with a software lib to do the rest
[17:56] <scummos> my special requirement is to compare phases of multiple signals very exactly
[17:56] <clever> you can always look at gnuradio before buying anything
[17:56] <scummos> yeah, I'm just reading around their website :)
[17:57] <AC`97> clever: i keep appending "bot" to the end of your name. idontknowwhy
[17:57] <clever> AC`97: lol :)
[17:57] <clever> AC`97: ive seen other people that keep calling me cleaver
[17:57] * fiftyonefifty is now known as fiftyonefiftyAFK
[17:57] <AC`97> O.o
[17:58] <clever> its understandable for that to happen in voice chat (it has)
[17:58] <clever> but when its text chat and it clearly says clever...
[17:58] <AC`97> clever and sharp? :D
[17:58] <scummos> using the tab key prevents such problems :)
[17:58] <clever> scummos: yep!
[17:59] <AC`97> and using tab introduces new problems sometimes
[17:59] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:59] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[17:59] <clever> scummos: if you dont care about making major changes to the kernel, you can probly modify the file https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-patches/arch/arm/mach-bcm2708/bcm2708_gpio.c#L118
[17:59] <clever> scummos: and add a function that just returns the register location
[18:00] <clever> that would save a ton of work
[18:00] <clever> overall, its a minor change, add one function and declare it as exported
[18:00] <clever> but it requires rebuilding the kernel
[18:00] <scummos> clever: I'm very open to dirty hacks that make stuff work.
[18:00] <clever> so it wont be compatible
[18:00] <clever> the module i'm using loads on an un-modified kernel
[18:01] <scummos> I can always recompile modules I need, can't I?
[18:01] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:01] <clever> yeah
[18:01] <scummos> the gnuradio stuff looks like the hardware was very expensive
[18:01] <clever> scummos: if you pull /proc/config.gz and clone that git repo, you can compile a nearly identical kernel&modules
[18:01] <scummos> ok
[18:02] <clever> and yeah, the gnuradio stuff is pretty expensive, but its pretty much an all in one solution
[18:02] <clever> add an antenna and your practicaly done
[18:03] * AC`97 demodulates a pony
[18:03] <scummos> I'm trying to build an interferometer, so I need as many antennas as I can get
[18:03] <scummos> which sadly requires them to be cheap :(
[18:03] * Tekerson (~brenton@ppp189-159.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:03] * PiBot sets mode +v Tekerson
[18:03] <AC`97> antennas, or receivers??
[18:03] * scummos takes the fourier transform of an elephant
[18:03] <scummos> antennas; the receiver must probably the same, as I don't see a way to synchronize more than one receiver
[18:04] * loadbang (~loadbang@host81-159-229-149.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:04] * PiBot sets mode +v loadbang
[18:04] <clever> scummos: trying to measure the freq of something way beyond your hardware limits?
[18:04] <scummos> *must probably be
[18:04] <AC`97> ooh
[18:04] * snuffeluffegus (~snuffeluf@ps95204.dreamhost.com) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[18:04] <scummos> clever: no, trying to do radio astronomy :)
[18:04] <clever> ah
[18:04] <ne2k> if I don't have a powered USB hub, can I fake it with a PSU? what pins do I need to connect to what?
[18:05] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:05] * PiBot sets mode +v Milos|Netbook
[18:05] <scummos> clever: I imagine something like this, but smaller: http://lofar.mpa-garching.mpg.de/images/site_090528.JPG
[18:05] <clever> ne2k: you could probly attach the +5v directly to the bottom of the usb connector, but just be carefull you dont blow the board
[18:05] <clever> scummos: dang thats a lot of antennas
[18:05] <AC`97> ne2k: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10Ft-10FEET-USB2-0-Type-A-Male-to-Type-A-Male-Cable-Cord-Black-U2A1-A1-10-/280917982142
[18:05] <[SLB]> hertian dipoles?
[18:05] <AC`97> if you have one of those, you can waste a port on your hub and connect it to a computer
[18:06] <clever> scummos: with that many, that far appart, id be worried about time delay just on the cables
[18:06] <scummos> clever: the delay is constant, it does only matter for calibrating the pointing direction
[18:06] <clever> AC`97: just be carefull you dont connect data
[18:06] <scummos> clever: you can also use a smaller amount, but you lose resolution and brightness
[18:06] <AC`97> i connect data too :D
[18:06] * whitman (~whitman@dm-cis-037.its.dur.ac.uk) Quit ()
[18:06] <AC`97> i'm sure the systems are smart enough to work out the stuff themselves...
[18:06] <scummos> clever: actually this is only one of > 100 stations which are placed across europe ;P
[18:06] <clever> AC`97: id expect 2 hosts to not like being linked like that
[18:07] <AC`97> it's only "data" :P
[18:07] <AC`97> er, lemme check if it's harmful
[18:07] <clever> AC`97: the protocol expects a usb slave at the other end
[18:07] <clever> both hosts will be driving the lines at the same time, trying to find a slave
[18:08] <scummos> [SLB]: yeah, something similar to that
[18:08] <AC`97> indeed.
[18:08] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:08] <[SLB]> nice
[18:08] <clever> scummos: and you cant just use an analog phase comparator?
[18:08] <scummos> clever: wavelength is 70cm, and measuring the cable length to lambda/10 = 7cm will be very easy
[18:08] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:08] * PiBot sets mode +v bertrik
[18:09] <scummos> clever: you can but it's uncool, because to look into a different direction, you'll need to add more cable
[18:09] <clever> scummos: ?
[18:09] <scummos> clever: the phase delay between the antennas will control the direction the interferometer receives most radiation from
[18:09] <AC`97> ^ indeed
[18:09] <scummos> clever: it's a telescope you can rotate just by changin the delays between the antennas
[18:09] * AC`97 doesn't understand at all, actually :D
[18:10] <scummos> well, it's a bit complicated ;P
[18:10] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:10] * PiBot sets mode +v warddr
[18:10] <clever> scummos: i dont see how a pi would effect the phase differences though
[18:10] <clever> its just measuring them, same as an analog phase detection
[18:10] <scummos> clever: if you manage to measure the phase of each antenna's signal in software
[18:10] <scummos> *of each antenna*
[18:10] <Helldesk> affect
[18:11] <scummos> then you can do the interference thing in software
[18:11] <scummos> which will allow you to observe an arbitrary amount of points on the sky simultaneously, and other cool stuff
[18:11] <clever> but could you do the same thing in theory, if you put a phase comparator between every antenna?
[18:11] <clever> every posible combination (or a select set of pairs)
[18:12] <scummos> hmm, and then measure the phase differences between each pair of antennas periodically?
[18:12] <Helldesk> talking radio astronomy?
[18:12] <clever> scummos: yeah
[18:12] <scummos> Helldesk: yes
[18:12] <Helldesk> I'd like to make a remotely operated telescope with a pi
[18:13] <scummos> clever: hmm, I currently don't see why not, but I'm not sure actually
[18:13] <clever> scummos: if your using an analog comparator, then you just get a constant analog signal out from every chosen pair
[18:13] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[18:13] <clever> that can be sampled at any rate you choose
[18:13] <clever> *looks at math*
[18:13] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:13] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[18:14] * RaycisCharles (RaycisChar@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:14] * PiBot sets mode +v RaycisCharles
[18:14] <clever> scummos: hmmm, a grid of just 4 antennas would in theory have a max of 7 posible pairs, 12 13 14 23 24 32 34
[18:15] <clever> scummos: i forget the math to calculate it, but it scales rather quickly
[18:15] <scummos> yes, the amount of comparators necessary will grow quickly
[18:15] <scummos> I think it's sum over n
[18:15] <scummos> and you *do* want all possible pairs, otherwise you lose resolution
[18:16] <clever> how quickly do you need to compare the phase of 2 different pairs?
[18:16] * Essobi (~Essobi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Essobi
[18:16] <clever> what if you had a pair of 256 input analog mux's and a single phase comparator
[18:16] <scummos> not very quickly, the fastest interesting sources, which I hope to detect (but probably won't) are millisecond pulsars
[18:16] <clever> and just compare the phase of each antenna pair one by one?
[18:17] <clever> use the mux's to pick any 2 antennas, analog phase compare, ADC, sample, repeat
[18:17] <scummos> I think more than 20k times per secound would be useless
[18:17] <scummos> hmmm
[18:17] * anton___ (~anton@unaffiliated/anton---/x-4931027) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:17] * PiBot sets mode +v anton___
[18:18] <[SLB]> it scales according to the binomial coefficient, for all the distinct pairs
[18:18] <clever> only issue you may need to worry about is the plannet spinning your antennas
[18:18] <scummos> it's slow
[18:18] * MasterGeek back
[18:18] <scummos> unless the antennas are several thousand kilometers across the phase change won't occur to rapidly
[18:18] * AC`97 is slow
[18:19] <MasterGeek> :)
[18:19] <clever> scummos: so a simple spi ADC and some analog muxes could do it on the pi
[18:19] <scummos> an interesting idea indeed, clever.
[18:20] <Essobi> Comparatively, speaking. :D
[18:20] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:20] * PiBot sets mode +v IT_Sean
[18:20] <bertrik> I'd think looking a bit more at the math before building anything, would be wise :)
[18:20] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:20] * PiBot sets mode +v mentar
[18:20] <scummos> bertrik: at the math of what? :)
[18:21] * ksx4system (~ksx4syste@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:22] <AC`97> 1+1
[18:22] <clever> scummos: for example, number of pairs you want to check (software controled!)
[18:22] <clever> scummos: how long it takes for the analog comparator to stablaize
[18:22] <clever> how long the adc takes to sample
[18:22] <clever> that gives the time to scan the entire array
[18:22] <clever> then check if your target could have moved by then
[18:23] <scummos> that's not the problem
[18:23] <scummos> targets move slowly
[18:23] * Kevin_D (~pi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:23] * PiBot sets mode +v Kevin_D
[18:23] <scummos> if anything, then detecting high-frequency sources such as pulsars will be difficult
[18:23] <clever> slow is relative
[18:23] <scummos> (those actually blink with a frequency of 1000/s)
[18:23] <clever> if it takes an hour to scan the entire array, will it have moved?
[18:24] <scummos> how could it take an hour to sample 7 values with an ADC ;P
[18:24] <scummos> I was thinking in milliseconds here
[18:24] <clever> depends on the number of antennas
[18:24] <AC`97> nanoseconds, picoseconds !~
[18:24] * AC`97 buzzes
[18:24] <clever> scummos: if you only had 4 antennas, thats 7 pairs
[18:24] <scummos> clever: the number of antennas is limited by what fits in my backyard ;P
[18:24] * IT_Sean unplugs AC`97
[18:24] * AC`97 sputters and dies
[18:24] <clever> scummos: does it have to only be back yard?
[18:24] <scummos> clever: ideally, no :)
[18:25] <clever> what if you just put them at all 4 corners of the property? :P
[18:25] <clever> right on the fence!
[18:25] <[SLB]> 6 pairs
[18:25] <scummos> clever: ideally I imagine to synchronize it with another array in another town
[18:25] <scummos> but that's to be left for the future ;P
[18:25] <[SLB]> 4! / 4!(4-2)!
[18:25] * IT_Sean plugs AC`97 back in
[18:25] <scummos> yes, it's 6 pairs
[18:25] * AC`97 pops
[18:26] <IT_Sean> O_o
[18:26] <scummos> clever: I'll think about that idea, it's interesting indeed. thanks! I'll be back in a while.
[18:26] * fredreichbier (~fred@unaffiliated/fredreichbier) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:26] <AC`97> ??.??
[18:26] * IT_Sean resets AC`97s circuit breaker
[18:26] * IT_Sean hides
[18:32] * mikep (c2498332@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:34] * Milos|Netbook (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:36] * ksx4system (~ksx4syste@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:36] * PiBot sets mode +v ksx4system
[18:43] * Killerkid (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:43] * PiBot sets mode +v Killerkid
[18:44] * chandoo (~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:44] * PiBot sets mode +v chandoo
[18:44] * jsharper (~jason@much.hubr.us) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:44] * PiBot sets mode +v jsharper
[18:45] * AC`97 explodes all over the place
[18:46] * booyaa is now known as booyaa|hs
[18:46] <AC`97> does the 3.3v regulator need a heatsink?
[18:46] <AC`97> it was a bit too high for my heatsink :|
[18:47] <AC`97> so i had to cut a notch out for it
[18:49] * DexterLB (~angel@95-42-9-19.btc-net.bg) has left #raspberrypi
[18:50] <IT_Sean> Eeew... Please don't explode all over the place. Someone has to clean that up now. :(
[18:50] <IT_Sean> AC`97: If you are referring to the regulator on the pi... If it needed a headsink, it'd of come with one.
[18:51] <AC`97> orly?
[18:51] <IT_Sean> Orly.
[18:51] <AC`97> what if i was planning to run 6v through it?
[18:51] <IT_Sean> That would be bad.
[18:51] <AC`97> how so??
[18:51] <IT_Sean> As that is outside it's acceptable range, innit?
[18:51] <AC`97> who knows :P
[18:52] <IT_Sean> I'm pretty sure it is.
[18:52] <AC`97> does the 1.8v regulator get its power from the 3.3v one?
[18:52] <IT_Sean> It's s certainly outside the acceptable range for input to the pi itself.
[18:52] * dc5ala (~dc5ala@stgt-5f70fc35.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[18:52] <AC`97> does anything else use the 5v though?
[18:53] <bertrik> I think USB does
[18:53] <AC`97> duh :P
[18:54] <IT_Sean> All the USB based stuff.
[18:54] <IT_Sean> So, the onboard hub, the Ethernet adapter... Etc...
[18:54] <AC`97> ethernet uses 5v too? o.o
[18:54] <IT_Sean> Since the Ethernet is USB based, yeah.
[18:55] <AC`97> i thought it'd be 3.3v since it was built into the chip
[18:55] <AC`97> but then again, i'm computer illiterate
[18:55] <AC`97> and electronics illiterate
[18:55] <IT_Sean> The SOC has ONE USB port onnit. That gets broken out to a 3port hub. Two ports for plugging stuff in, nad one for the Ethernet
[18:55] <IT_Sean> The thernet on the pi is a USB to Ethernet adapter.
[18:56] <AC`97> but the usb ports get their 5v separately...
[18:56] <IT_Sean> And overvolting that would be Bad.
[18:56] * rpvl (~rpvl@pickles.tp.telepac.pt) Quit ()
[18:56] <IT_Sean> Do whatever you want. Let us know when it goes FIZZLPOP.
[18:56] <AC`97> okee dokee
[18:57] * Kanerix (~kanerix@reverse.control4.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:57] * PiBot sets mode +v Kanerix
[18:57] <AC`97> 5.8v works
[18:57] * scriptx (~ryan@unaffiliated/ryann) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:57] * Kanerix (~kanerix@reverse.control4.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:57] <AC`97> my usb wifi adapter didn't fry yet
[18:58] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:58] * PiBot sets mode +v oldtopman
[18:58] <AC`97> now i just gotta see if the regulator will heat up too much
[18:58] <IT_Sean> Looks like we have another contestant for the Daniel award. :D
[18:58] <AC`97> who be Daniel??
[18:59] <IT_Sean> Daniel was the first member of is channel to kill a pi
[18:59] <IT_Sean> *this
[18:59] <AC`97> what'd he do? reverse polarity?
[18:59] <IT_Sean> Nope... Dropped a massive solder blob on it, then powered it up anyway.
[18:59] <IT_Sean> It went FZZLPOOT
[18:59] <AC`97> .......
[18:59] <AC`97> i did that with two things once
[19:00] <AC`97> luckily, both survived
[19:00] <AC`97> (after powerup, powerdown, and solder removal
[19:00] <IT_Sean> Yeah. The raspi doesn't like having things shorted by massive solder boogers
[19:00] <AC`97> my solder boogers have only bridged 2 pins together at any one time
[19:01] <IT_Sean> Anyway, the Daniel Award is awarded to those who manage to kill their pi via acts of abysmal stupidity.
[19:01] <IT_Sean> Sort of liek the Darwin award, but for raspis
[19:01] <IT_Sean> And on that note. My lunch is up. I am off
[19:01] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: IT_Sean)
[19:01] <bertrik> You can calculate approximately the amount of power dissipated in the regulator and from that the temperature
[19:02] * jprvita|afk is now known as jprvita
[19:02] <AC`97> but i don't know how much it alraedy dissipates onto the board
[19:03] <AC`97> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kCFVd3yIuU1YDn7WUnFBevDJCT4qjt0I9T_QkgwhhNE?feat=directlink regulator looks so naked D:
[19:03] <AC`97> and left out
[19:03] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:04] <scummos> clever: I imagine the problem with your suggestion will be an affordable 400MHz multiplexer, which introduces a predictable delay...
[19:04] <scummos> and which can switch at least a few thousand times a second
[19:05] <clever> scummos: but if you put the mux after the downmixing?
[19:06] <clever> you would need one downmixer per antenna, but then the mux itself can be much cheaper
[19:07] * booyaa|hs (~pi@cpc9-colc7-2-0-cust745.7-4.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:08] * markit (~marco@88-149-177-66.v4.ngi.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:08] * PiBot sets mode +v markit
[19:10] * zabomber (~zabomber@gateway/tor-sasl/zabomber) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:10] * PiBot sets mode +v zabomber
[19:10] <scummos> clever: won't that cause problems if the downmixers have slightly different frequencies?
[19:11] <clever> scummos: can you just feed all the downmixers with a single source?
[19:11] <scummos> clever: hm, right.
[19:12] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[19:13] * scummos searches for affordable 10MHz multiplexers
[19:14] <clever> doesnt have to be 10mhz either, could do 300, 200, 100, 50, whatever is cheap and you can downmix to
[19:15] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[19:15] <scummos> yeah, right; higher frequencies are easier to downmix to
[19:16] <clever> so get the highest freq mux thats cheap and handles your antenna count
[19:16] <clever> 2 of them
[19:16] <scummos> yes, and then just add the signals
[19:17] <clever> depending on the interface, it could still be run into a pi in the end
[19:17] <clever> if the mux's are i2c based, they could share the bus with the adc
[19:18] <clever> if they are spi, your limited to 2 chip select lines, and you have 3 components
[19:18] <clever> but you could also use some i2c gpio expanders to drive the mux's
[19:18] <clever> and maybe even read the adc
[19:18] * localhost (~IceChat9@cpe-76-188-161-222.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:19] <scummos> yeah, running it on a pi sounds good
[19:21] <clever> if you over-size the mux a decent ammount, then you could make it as a kit
[19:21] <clever> and others can use the same design for larger arrays
[19:21] * gazzwi86 (~gazzwi86@ Quit (Quit: gazzwi86)
[19:22] <scummos> optimally one could join those arrays
[19:22] <criten> Hey guys
[19:22] <scummos> but that will be difficult because you need a very good clock
[19:22] <scummos> hi
[19:22] * ksx4system (~ksx4syste@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:22] <scummos> (a *very* good clock)
[19:22] <clever> scummos: and if your using 2 sets of 2 muxes, you cant measure phase between the sets
[19:23] <scummos> that's why you need the clock
[19:23] <clever> i was thinking if you use a 64 way mux, you have tons of room to grow
[19:23] * pretty_function (~sigBART@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:23] * PiBot sets mode +v pretty_function
[19:23] <scummos> hm, or is the clock sufficient in that case...?
[19:24] <scummos> ah, no, it is not :( since all measurements are always local to the array
[19:24] <scummos> so you're right, one cannot synchronice those at all
[19:25] <scummos> but that doesn't matter much, since it wouldn't have worked anyways, because you need a like 10^-11 accuracy clock
[19:25] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:25] * PiBot sets mode +v chris_99
[19:25] <clever> if you use a 64 input mux, that gives you an 8x8 grid of antennas, is that large for this stuff?
[19:25] <scummos> well LOFAR has like 20.000, but I don't think I will ever be able to build 64 antennas
[19:26] <scummos> since I need to solder an amplifier for each of them, ...
[19:27] * localhost (~IceChat9@cpe-76-188-161-222.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:27] * PiBot sets mode +v localhost
[19:28] * pretty_function (~sigBART@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:28] <AC`97> i soldered up a fractal antenna before
[19:28] <AC`97> i'm never doing it again.
[19:28] <scummos> oh cool, for what frequency?
[19:28] <scummos> ;P
[19:28] <AC`97> tv/hdtv
[19:28] <scummos> ok
[19:28] <AC`97> i used a torch
[19:29] <scummos> a torch?
[19:29] <AC`97> yes
[19:29] <scummos> ... for soldering?
[19:29] <AC`97> my 75 watt soldering iron wasn't hot enough
[19:29] <AC`97> i used solid core wire meant for AC
[19:29] <scummos> oh dear
[19:29] * kripton is now known as Kripton
[19:29] * Simon- (simon@proxima.lp0.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:29] * PiBot sets mode +v Simon-
[19:29] <scummos> that sounds... adventurous
[19:29] * M3nti0n|off is now known as M3nti0n
[19:30] <AC`97> i also had a 150watt soldering iron that could be wielded with two hands
[19:30] <AC`97> but it heats up slooooow
[19:30] <scummos> haha
[19:30] <scummos> did it work in the end?
[19:30] <AC`97> yep. perfectly
[19:30] <Kripton> Hi! Did anyone try the latest git-kernel (popcornmix) to get rid of the USB packet loss? I still have problems: http://pastebin.com/niYksZHg
[19:30] <scummos> well, that's something, isn't it:)
[19:30] <AC`97> indeed
[19:31] <clever> scummos: do you think other hobby users might use a 64 antenna array?
[19:31] * _Jekyll_ (~Loco@cpc9-oxfd20-2-0-cust477.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:31] * PiBot sets mode +v _Jekyll_
[19:31] <_Jekyll_> Hey All
[19:31] <scummos> clever: actually, I've been searching for other people doing stuff like this, but they seem to be using analog interferometry only...
[19:32] <clever> scummos: this method is a bit of a mix of the 2
[19:32] <clever> rather then a dedicated phase detector on every pair, its checking the pairs digitaly
[19:33] <scummos> yeah, but it still gives you all the information you need for a full digital analysis of the data
[19:33] <scummos> except for the absolute phase offset of the array compared to some reference point in spacetime (xD)
[19:34] * Siph0n (~Siph0n@113.sub-174-235-131.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:34] * PiBot sets mode +v Siph0n
[19:34] <_Jekyll_> Can anyone help? I am trying to setup my RPi as a CCTV server but it is not picking up the driver for my EasyCap DC60
[19:34] * thrawed (~t@unaffiliated/thrawed) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:34] * PiBot sets mode +v thrawed
[19:35] <SRCR> Kripton: I'm running my own kernel and have wifi direct in the Pi, no packet loss for me.. "23 packets transmitted, 23 packets received, 0.0% packet loss"
[19:36] <Kripton> SRCR, it seems to depend on how many USB-devices you have connected. I don't have a problem with *only* my USB HDD + WiFi. But when I plug in the keyboard, things go wrong
[19:37] <thrawed> Is that with a powered hub?
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[19:37] * PiBot sets mode +v ksx4system
[19:37] <Kripton> thrawed, yep
[19:38] <Kripton> thrawed, and it says 5V, 3A on the plug so that really should be fine. Didn't bother measuring voltage drops or something
[19:39] <SRCR> Kripton: thrawed: is the issue a power issue on the pi or a through put issue ?
[19:39] <_Jekyll_> Can anyone help me
[19:40] <Kripton> SRCR, I'd rather call it a latency issue. At least what I see. Ping times go to about one second and the output of "dmesg" (on the monitor via HDMI) takes about 3 secs. With fewer USB-devices it shows instantly
[19:41] <Kripton> SRCR, and from what I guess it might be the "USB packets getting dropped" issue. And the activity-LED on the USB HDD stays constantly lit for about 2 secs from time to time. Never does so with fewer USB devices
[19:41] <Kripton> _Jekyll_, not if you don't tell us your problem :)
[19:42] <_Jekyll_> i did :)
[19:42] <_Jekyll_> Can anyone help? I am trying to setup my RPi as a CCTV server but it is not picking up the driver for my EasyCap DC60
[19:42] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[19:42] * PiBot sets mode +v hypera1r
[19:44] <Kripton> _Jekyll_, sry, didn't see your question the first time. Does the "EasyCap DC60" work under a different linux system?
[19:44] <Kripton> _Jekyll_, do you know which driver it needs under Linux?
[19:44] * aaa801 (~aaa801@host-92-14-178-229.as43234.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:44] * PiBot sets mode +v aaa801
[19:44] <aaa801> anyone got a link to cboots kernel
[19:44] <_Jekyll_> Yeah it works under Ubuntu and i think it is v4l
[19:45] <aaa801> bootc*
[19:45] <thrawed> stk1160
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[19:45] * PiBot sets mode +v kvarley
[19:46] <Kripton> aaa801, source or compiled?
[19:46] <aaa801> source
[19:46] <Kripton> aaa801, https://github.com/bootc/linux
[19:46] <aaa801> Thanks
[19:46] <aaa801> Doing a lfs build :)
[19:46] <Kripton> _Jekyll_, are you familiar with configuring/compiling a linux kernel? in this case with cross-compiling?
[19:47] <_Jekyll_> No never needed to do it before
[19:47] <Kripton> aaa801, but pick the correct branch. rpi-3.2.23 should be fine
[19:48] <Kripton> _Jekyll_, then you either find s.o. that will get you a kernel or you'll have to learn it :) I could compile you one if you find out the exact driver/kernel module
[19:48] <scummos> clever: everything with more than 8 inputs always is a QFN chip :(
[19:49] * inane (~inane@unaffiliated/inane) Quit ()
[19:50] <_Jekyll_> Kripton: Do you have any documentation on compiling the kernel i will give it a shot
[19:50] <Kripton> _Jekyll_, a very nice one is here: http://elinux.org/RPi_Kernel_Compilation
[19:50] <clever> scummos: you can either suck it and do qfn, or daisy-chain a tree of 8 inputs
[19:51] <_Jekyll_> Thanks dude. I will idle in here for a while:)
[19:51] <Kripton> _Jekyll_, if you have time, compiling it on the RPi itself is the easiest way. Cross-compiling might take a bit to set it up
[19:52] <_Jekyll_> Ok then Thanks
[19:52] <MasterGeek> too funny
[19:52] <PigFlu> dude
[19:52] <PigFlu> the omxplayer is too awesome
[19:53] <Kripton> PigFlu, yup :)
[19:53] <PigFlu> i just ssh to the pi and play a movie
[19:53] <PigFlu> >mfw
[19:53] <scummos> clever: I was considering the chain too, but it will probably be a bitch to control
[19:54] * loadbang (~loadbang@host81-159-229-149.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
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[19:54] * PiBot sets mode +v tcial
[19:55] <scummos> clever: on the other hand, since I wanted to start with just 2 or 3 antennas anyways, the 8-input method might be the best bet
[19:55] <scummos> since it's easy to get started with, and reasonable to extend later
[19:55] <scummos> but somehow I don't trust those tiny chips with my HF signal....
[19:56] <clever> scummos: downmix till its a LF signal
[19:57] <scummos> clever: reqiures stable oscillators, and I'm unsure how good ones I can get
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[19:59] <clever> scummos: ah, so higher freq is better
[19:59] <PigFlu> Kripton: how do i stop a movie, though?
[19:59] <PigFlu> i cant find a list of commands
[19:59] <scummos> clever: oooh, another problem I just noticed: for this method, one needs to measure the amplitude of all the signals
[19:59] <scummos> accurately
[20:00] <Kripton> PigFlu, q or Ctrl+C
[20:00] <PigFlu> if i ctrl+d, i get a really highpitched noise
[20:00] <PigFlu> i mean ctrl c
[20:00] <scummos> the "sampling theorem" method has the huge advantage of being totally independent of all amplitudes
[20:00] <Kripton> strange
[20:00] <AC`97> did you try q
[20:00] <PigFlu> no
[20:00] <Kripton> do :)
[20:00] <PigFlu> 1 sec
[20:00] <PigFlu> ok that worked
[20:00] <clever> scummos: after the mux, you could have a diode feeding into a cap
[20:01] <clever> scummos: to store the peak value
[20:01] <clever> and a second adc
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[20:01] * PiBot sets mode +v chas
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[20:01] * PiBot sets mode +v mikey_w
[20:01] <clever> scummos: so you could have 2 muxes, feeding 2 peak detectors, and a single phase measurement
[20:02] <scummos> the phase measurement would be another ADC, its measurement being compared to the two peak detectors
[20:03] * aaa801 (~aaa801@host-92-14-178-229.as43234.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:03] <MasterGeek> Is it just me or am i missing the whole point about the pi being a cheap entry level device so kids could learn to code? No one mentioned in the sales pitch, that you would need an accompanying ?300 PC and complex cross compiler and dev env set up just to get "hello World" running ?
[20:03] * aaa801 (~aaa801@host-92-14-178-229.as43234.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:03] * PiBot sets mode +v aaa801
[20:04] <scummos> clever: well, I could even use a multi-channel ADC; that makes things easier
[20:04] <lrusak> MasterGeek you can just use a precompiled image...
[20:04] <plugwash> MasterGeek, you can compile "hello world" just fine on the Pi itself
[20:04] <scummos> MasterGeek: you need a screen and a keyboard
[20:05] <MasterGeek> yer, but what value is that ? educationally ?
[20:05] <scummos> and then run your editor and everything on the device
[20:05] <plugwash> though you do need some way of getting the SD card setup
[20:05] <MasterGeek> oh i learned to download an imag and burn it to an SD card woot a winner
[20:05] <trumee> i am trying to stream music via a usb soundcard line-in, there is a lot of cackle in the audio
[20:06] <scummos> clever: I'm becoming increasingly happy with that setup, it seems good
[20:06] <trumee> has anybody used a usb sound cards mic as input?
[20:06] <scummos> clever: the only thing I'm sad about is the loss of absolute phase information for the array, but that would probably be of no use anyways
[20:06] <plugwash> MasterGeek, yeah and then after doing that you install gcc and start coding using it
[20:06] <scummos> MasterGeek: what kind of educational value are you looking for? i.e. what do you want to teach?
[20:06] * Killerkid (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:07] <plugwash> building massive projects on the Pi is impractical but anything a kid is likely to write themselves should build fine
[20:08] * DMackey is now known as ]DMackey[
[20:09] <axion> i develop in a full common lisp image fine
[20:11] <loadbang> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/08/16/1237214/nokia-researcher-puts-firefox-os-on-raspberry-pi
[20:11] * plugwash doesn't know how intensive common lisp is
[20:12] <markllama> depends on what you mean by "intensive" and what you mean to do with it.
[20:12] <plugwash> the biggest problem for building stuff on the Pi (and arm hardware more generally) is ram
[20:12] <markllama> yep
[20:12] <plugwash> linking in swap is not good for performance
[20:13] <Essobi> :D
[20:13] <scummos> doing anything in swap is not good for performance
[20:13] <scummos> protip: mount your RAM as swap
[20:13] <Essobi> Doing anything that causes a context switch is generally considered bad for performance.
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[20:15] * PiBot sets mode +v Jungle-Boogie
[20:16] <markllama> context switch and memory <-> disk are two very different things.
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[20:43] <trumee> anybody using gentoo on pi?
[20:44] <Kripton> trumee, yep
[20:44] <trumee> Kripton: what is the quickest way to set it up?
[20:44] <Kripton> trumee, good question. Take a ready-to-use stage3 or stage4 from the forums?
[20:44] <scummos> did you just say "gentoo" and "quick" and "set up" in one statement?
[20:45] <markllama> dd if=gentoo.img of=/dev/sdc ?
[20:45] <trumee> marcusw: dont think there is a gentoo image
[20:46] <Kripton> trumee, there are lots of in the forums
[20:47] <Kripton> trumee, if you want to do it "the hard way": I used arch on the Pi, booted it, and set up Gentoo on a USB HDD. A cross-compiling distcc-setup helps speeding it up a little
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[20:50] <gordonDrogon> evening.
[20:51] * MikeJ1971 (~MikeJ1971@host109-154-133-168.range109-154.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:51] <Sp0tter> hey gordonDrogon
[20:52] <loadbang> Failed to fetch http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/v/vlc/vlc-data_2.0.2-2_all.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
[20:52] * kvarley (~kevin@unaffiliated/kvarley) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[20:52] <loadbang> ahh
[20:53] <plugwash> in general when you see a 404 from apt the first thing to do is to run apt-get update
[20:53] * kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake
[20:53] <loadbang> done that, still get 2.0.2-2
[20:55] <loadbang> deleted lists locally and the undated again
[20:55] <loadbang> working
[20:57] * M3nti0n is now known as M3nti0n|off
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[20:58] <bertrik> loadbang: which kernel are you running? (uname -a should tell you)
[20:58] * vaillor (~vaillor@unaffiliated/convolution) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] * PiBot sets mode +v vaillor
[20:58] <vaillor> hi guys
[20:58] <vaillor> raspberrypi are available?
[20:58] <loadbang> Darwin simon.local 12.0.0 Darwin Kernel Version 12.0.0: Sun Jun 24 23:00:16 PDT 2012; root:xnu-2050.7.9~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64
[20:58] <loadbang> oops, wrong tab
[20:58] <loadbang> Linux pisces 3.1.9+ #155 PREEMPT Mon Jul 9 12:49:19 BST 2012 armv6l GNU/Linux
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[20:59] <loadbang> vaillor: yes, in the uk delivery time 2-3 days from farnell
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[21:01] <loadbang> vaillor: ordered two last week and thats how long they took
[21:02] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:02] <loadbang> vaillor: guessing there is no backorder now
[21:02] <vaillor> ok
[21:02] <vaillor> i'm from italy
[21:03] <[SLB]> i preordered mine in april, got them on july 18th, italy too
[21:04] <[SLB]> but that was a while ago, now things have changed
[21:04] <[SLB]> no queue anymore it seems
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[21:33] <HoldenC> [SLB], vaillor, nice to see there are fellow Italians on this channel :)
[21:33] <[SLB]> :D you too?
[21:33] <vaillor> thank you
[21:34] <HoldenC> [SLB], yes
[21:34] <[SLB]> nice :)
[21:36] <joxer> HoldenC i'm italian too
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[21:37] <nezZario> has anyone ever tried running netbsd on a RP?
[21:37] <HoldenC> joxer, ok, so we're 4 in total, unless someone else speaks up...
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[21:38] <vaillor> is better farnell or rs to ship in italy?
[21:39] <[SLB]> i think farnell, my friend got stuck with rs saying something like 18 weeks lead time
[21:39] <HoldenC> I ordered mine from RS, and they were quick with the shipping... I got it one week after they sent me a confirmation email (it came from uk)
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[21:39] <HoldenC> but I got it in May, it was one of the first batch
[21:39] <axion> farnell is on back order til september atm
[21:40] <vaillor> ok, and to configure it i need a monitor and a keyboard?
[21:40] <scummos> yes RS says 15 weeks shipping time
[21:40] <scummos> farnell says 3
[21:40] <scummos> so I'll go with farnell :D
[21:40] <vaillor> i can't do it from ssh or kvm?
[21:40] <[SLB]> sure can
[21:41] <axion> i ordered another yesterday and support told me itd get off back order and ship on 9/5
[21:41] <vaillor> i'm talking about the first configuration
[21:41] <iBooyaa> if you use the official Debian ssh is enabled
[21:41] <[SLB]> no need for keyboard nor screen
[21:41] <yarekt> Hey guys. I got a rev B. Boots with an SD card (on HDMI) but no USB or ethernet. Tried a bluetooth dongle, a usb mircoSD card reader (LED lights up on the reader if it recieves power) and a 5V, 100mA wired keyboard. Powered by 5V 1A iphone charger, a desktop computer, and tried with a USB3 port
[21:42] <iBooyaa> would recommend connect pi to your router using ethernet to get the ip address
[21:42] * aaa801 (~aaa801@host-92-14-178-229.as43234.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:42] <iBooyaa> that's how I configured mine did wifi afterwards
[21:42] * joxer (~fracchio@ Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:42] <HoldenC> vaillor, you can ssh into it, but having a monitor (or a tv with hdmi input) around and a usb keyboard do make things easier
[21:43] <[SLB]> i just wrote a post on how to configure raspbian for ssh, and static lan ip, hope to put more stuff up soon if i have spare time http://www.slblabs.com/
[21:43] <vaillor> my friend said that for installation you need a monitor
[21:44] <[SLB]> maybe because there's the raspi-config showing up by default, in raspbian, and ssh is off by default, but really no need to
[21:45] <scummos> um
[21:45] * Siph0n (~Siph0n@113.sub-174-235-131.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[21:45] <scummos> what is supposed to happen if I click the submit button on the farnell website
[21:45] <scummos> it routes me to the location selection page... which takes me to the start page if I select a country
[21:45] <scummos> wtf?
[21:45] <iBooyaa> vaillor: not any more
[21:45] <iBooyaa> I've got
[21:45] <iBooyaa> a sweet watchdog script that check for internets and restarts WLAN if it's
[21:45] <iBooyaa> missing then it sends me a notification of my internal and external ip addresses
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[21:46] * PiBot sets mode +v andypiper
[21:46] * PigFlu (~herp@unaffiliated/pigflu) Quit (Quit: dthdrthdrth)
[21:46] <elspuddy> hi, im tryiing to get that rasbcontrole to run, iv tryed seting up an fpt server to upload the files to, but each time i try to upload a file it give me an error "553 could not create file" any idears on how to fix this ?
[21:48] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-89-24.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[21:48] <yarekt> only info i can find about the ethernet not working is the X1 crystal solder joins. I'm not sure what it could be
[21:48] * ka6sox-away is now known as ka6sox
[21:49] <scummos> should I get a confirmation email after placing an order with farnell?
[21:50] <scummos> wtf, how does this website work o_O
[21:51] <scummos> also it has "</input>" tags
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[21:51] * PiBot sets mode +v kkimlabs
[21:57] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@ Quit (Quit: Gallomimia)
[21:58] <scummos> did anyone order one at farnell recently?
[21:58] <yarekt> scummos: Yup
[21:59] <scummos> yarekt: what should happen after you click the submit button after entering your data?
[21:59] <yarekt> scummos: I honestly don't remember. What happened to you?
[21:59] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:59] <scummos> it took me to that country selection page
[21:59] <yarekt> And?
[22:00] * Timmmaaaayyy (~Timmmaaaa@fwpat.freshdirect.com) Quit (Quit: ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!)
[22:00] <scummos> http://export.farnell.com/jsp/home/exportHome.jsp?_requestid=256845
[22:00] <scummos> and nothing
[22:00] <scummos> if I select a country, I get to the start page of farnell for that country
[22:00] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:00] * PiBot sets mode +v nils_2
[22:01] <[SLB]> i think i remember the first time happened to me the same thing too, but that was because i was slow in filling the form and the session expired
[22:01] <yarekt> Is their website broken?
[22:01] <scummos> yarekt: imo yes
[22:01] <scummos> [SLB]: aaah, that's a good hint indeed
[22:01] <scummos> [SLB]: I'll try faster again
[22:01] <[SLB]> so i did it the second time and got the email with order number
[22:01] <yarekt> scummos: I'd ring them. if you didn't get an email tho, its probably haven't been ordered
[22:01] <scummos> [SLB]: it already did the same thing earlier in the process because I had cookies enabled
[22:01] <scummos> okay
[22:01] <scummos> no, I didn't get an email
[22:01] <[SLB]> hm
[22:02] <scummos> I'll try again faster
[22:02] <yarekt> Their website can be confusing, but its not too bad
[22:02] <scummos> it has "</input>" tags
[22:02] <scummos> enough said
[22:02] <scummos> ;P
[22:02] <[SLB]> okies let's try that maybe it works
[22:02] <[SLB]> eheh
[22:04] <scummos> now it worked
[22:04] * tcial (~tcial@cpc1-pres13-2-0-cust571.pres.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:04] <scummos> genious
[22:04] <scummos> ;P
[22:04] * tcial (~tcial@cpc1-pres13-2-0-cust571.pres.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:04] * PiBot sets mode +v tcial
[22:04] <[SLB]> \o/
[22:05] * tcial (~tcial@cpc1-pres13-2-0-cust571.pres.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:07] * yorick (~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[22:08] * prpplague (~danders@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[22:09] * PiBot sets mode +v yorick
[22:12] <yarekt> Argh so annoying. people on forums say that if the 3 other LEDs don't flash at all, then the crystal could be the problem. But for me they flash during bootup intermittently
[22:13] * inane (~inane@unaffiliated/inane) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[22:13] * PiBot sets mode +v ldav15
[22:14] <iBooyaa> yeah bit of flashing then just yr red pwr one stays on
[22:14] <yarekt> But then neither USB nor Ethernet works
[22:15] <yarekt> I got ethernet connected to my mac, waiting for it to change from <not connected> to <no ip> or something
[22:15] <loadbang> axion: I ordered from farnell last week and they arrived in 2-3 days. I was waiting from RS since the launch day, they cancelled my order twice.
[22:16] <axion> at least rs says they are out of stock when you try to order now
[22:16] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] * PiBot sets mode +v Behold
[22:16] <axion> farnell doesnt and just places you in back order after they bil
[22:16] <iBooyaa> you trying to do adhoc/p2p? tried the same ended up pluging thr pi into my router
[22:16] * iBooyaa (~iBooyaa@ Quit (Quit: doh!)
[22:16] <HoldenC> how many rpis are on the wild by now, I wonder...
[22:19] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[22:20] * DanyO83 (me@mctnnbsa59w-156034049036.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOP.nb.bellaliant.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] * PiBot sets mode +v DanyO83
[22:21] * DanyO83 (me@mctnnbsa59w-156034049036.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOP.nb.bellaliant.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:21] <loadbang> axion: a friend ordered from farnell on monday and it arrived yesterday.
[22:21] <scummos> that's fast
[22:21] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] * PiBot sets mode +v Gallomimia
[22:21] <scummos> they said 3 weeks for me
[22:21] * Tuxuser is now known as XeCrypt
[22:21] <loadbang> they said 3 weeks for me and mine came in 3 days
[22:22] * DanyO83 (me@mctnnbsa59w-156034049036.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOP.nb.bellaliant.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:22] * PiBot sets mode +v DanyO83
[22:23] * aphadke (~Adium@2620:101:8003:200:f107:5efc:a24e:9b03) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:23] * PiBot sets mode +v aphadke
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[22:24] * PiBot sets mode +v wad
[22:26] <loadbang> talking of quick, i ordered a hard drive from ebuyer this week, ordered at 1am and arrived by 3pm. I chose the free shipping option too.
[22:26] <scummos> I hope this doesn't mean it could also be 3 months
[22:27] <loadbang> nobody told me I need 16GB+ of RAM to compile linux kernel
[22:27] <scummos> you don't
[22:27] <scummos> well except if you want to compile with like 32 threads or so
[22:28] * BeholdMyGlory (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:28] * PiBot sets mode +v BeholdMyGlory
[22:28] * ebswift (~ebswift@ppp118-208-148-150.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
[22:29] * Behold (~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[22:31] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[22:31] <loadbang> building with dynamic linking instead
[22:31] <SRCR> loadbang: I have my Pi compile it's own kernel last time i checked it had 240Mb of RAM
[22:31] <[SLB]> could anyone check if for raspbian (or maybe also other distro) running a fdisk -l on the system partition it says "Disk /dev/sdf2 doesn't contain a valid partition table"?
[22:31] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:31] * PiBot sets mode +v Davespice
[22:32] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:32] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:32] * PiBot sets mode +v Davespice
[22:33] * oneman (~oneman@2601:9:4d80:1a:2137:ed81:fbcc:d90b) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:33] * PiBot sets mode +v oneman
[22:33] <oneman> hi
[22:33] <loadbang> [SLB] fdisk: illegal option -- l
[22:33] <[SLB]> uh weird
[22:34] <[SLB]> with sudo?
[22:34] * reider59 (~reider59@cpc4-warr5-0-0-cust657.1-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Later)
[22:34] <yarekt> i noticed that second partition of my card is also broken
[22:34] <scummos> loadbang: can you paste the exact command, maybe you typed it wrong?
[22:34] <yarekt> or, the whole thing doesn't have a table you mean?
[22:34] <[SLB]> sudo fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0p2
[22:35] <oneman> Can anyone offer any insight into why the raspberry pi can't handle streaming mjpeg from a webcam over the network? I'm using my own software to do this, which the pandaboard could handle fine, but even though my cpu usage is around 10-15% I can't get a solid 30fps any higher than 160x120px
[22:35] <scummos> wicked
[22:35] <yarekt> scummos: no, he is on OSX, their fdisk doesn't have -l option
[22:35] <scummos> oh okay
[22:35] <[SLB]> not sure whether it's because the partition has been resized by the installer
[22:35] * javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:35] * PiBot sets mode +v javispedro
[22:35] <yarekt> (or similar)
[22:35] * Joe_KD2AKU (~Joe@ool-45708bc4.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:35] <[SLB]> it works fine so it's no issue, just curious to know eheh
[22:35] <scummos> I like this channel, there's a lot of friendly people here :)
[22:36] * scummos adds it to the autojoin list
[22:36] * markit (~marco@88-149-177-66.v4.ngi.it) Quit ()
[22:38] <SRCR> scummos: I'm also here.
[22:38] <HoldenC> [SLB], you're supposed to use fdisk on the whole disk, not on a partition. the correct command would be sudo fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0
[22:38] * inane (~inane@unaffiliated/inane) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:38] * PiBot sets mode +v inane
[22:39] <nputnam> ls
[22:39] <nputnam> newb!
[22:39] <scummos> SRCR: I'm sure you're a nice person too
[22:39] * Hoppo (~johnhopki@host86-143-155-188.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:39] <SRCR> :)
[22:39] * PiBot sets mode +v Hoppo
[22:39] <[SLB]> but it works fine on the boot partition
[22:39] <[SLB]> hm
[22:41] <HoldenC> if you look at the man page you'll see: fdisk [options] device, "The device is usually /dev/sda, /dev/sdb or so. A device name refers to the entire disk."
[22:43] <[SLB]> hm then is it parted the one i can use on partitions, or still whole disk? woa i never realized that because i never got such an error
[22:43] <Syliss> anyone gonna try firefox os on the pi?
[22:43] <techsurvivor> are they making an arm6 compatible version ?
[22:43] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::597) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:44] <[SLB]> it's available already so far i know
[22:44] <[SLB]> moment
[22:44] <techsurvivor> ah neat
[22:44] <Syliss> yeah its on the site
[22:44] <lrusak> I've only seen the news article
[22:44] <lrusak> I didn't see the actual source
[22:44] <techsurvivor> i'll let someone else review it for us ;)
[22:44] <lrusak> link?
[22:44] <[SLB]> http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/nokia-firefox-os-raspberry-pi-89438
[22:44] <techsurvivor> i haven't been real impressed with the gui responsiveness even on something as light as lxde :)
[22:45] <lrusak> yea ok, ???We want to attract hundreds of thousands of web developers [to work] on Firefox OS,???
[22:46] <scummos> this whole thing sounds somewhat weird
[22:46] <nezZario> yeah idk about the whole FFOS thing
[22:46] <scummos> I just don't think the "everything is a web application" idea will succeed
[22:47] <techsurvivor> the more the better, survival of the fittest will kill off the weak ones :)
[22:47] <nezZario> well it's pretty obvious
[22:47] <Syliss> yep
[22:47] <nezZario> as a web developer, i was very excited at the "everything is web" idea
[22:47] <nezZario> when androids and iphones started getting popular (without owning one) I was excited thinking all those "apps" were mostly web based apps
[22:47] <techsurvivor> as a privacy advocate, I take web apps with a grain of salt
[22:47] <scummos> I once was too, but after thinking about it for a while the idea seemed less and less smart
[22:47] <Syliss> well the backend of web dev is getting so much better
[22:48] <scummos> Syliss: well the backend currently being php, it can't get much worse, can it?
[22:48] <nezZario> but, if you look at things.. what major "anything" doesn't offer an android/iphone app? you'd be stupid - because people want weird downloadable apps - most people don't fully understand SaaS
[22:48] <techsurvivor> i use them for frivolous things, but things I think should be private I do the old fashion way
[22:48] <lrusak> Saas?
[22:48] <Syliss> scummos yeah, at least php is slowly getting moved away from
[22:49] <techsurvivor> it's nice when things jsut work in a browser (Saas)
[22:49] <scummos> software as a service
[22:49] <nezZario> why bash php?
[22:49] <scummos> http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
[22:49] <nezZario> python, RoR, and other weird languages are really no better
[22:49] <Syliss> I'm not bashing it, its being moved away from tho
[22:49] <scummos> python is much better than php :)
[22:49] <Syliss> ror is great, but i totally suck at it
[22:49] <nezZario> it's all in the hands of the programmer
[22:49] <techsurvivor> please no language wars :D
[22:49] <scummos> ok
[22:50] <nezZario> unfortunately, php can be handed to bad programmers and still be used a lot easier with languages with steeper learning curves..
[22:50] <Syliss> well css is getting more powerful too
[22:50] <scummos> one language I'm truly unhappy with is javascript
[22:51] <Syliss> js is okay, I'm not a fan of flash tho
[22:51] * JMichaelX (~james@ Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[22:51] <Syliss> too much cpu work
[22:51] <scummos> nah flash... that will die
[22:51] * Killerkid (~l1am9111@unaffiliated/killerkid) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:51] * PiBot sets mode +v Killerkid
[22:51] <Syliss> some day
[22:52] * fiftyonefiftyAFK (~fiftyonef@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:52] <scummos> yes, it'll probably take a while...
[22:52] <lrusak> flash is dead
[22:52] <bertrik> silly how it's been 20 years or so and we still don't have a good standard web runtime environment
[22:52] <scummos> bertrik: signed.
[22:52] <techsurvivor> i think flash will die with javascript/html5/css combo punch
[22:52] <scummos> yes
[22:52] <Syliss> lrusak is not, a lot of sites still use it
[22:52] * NullMoogleCable (NullMoogle@cpe-66-66-112-9.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:52] * PiBot sets mode +v NullMoogleCable
[22:53] <scummos> yes, but what do the widgets do... display slideshows of images, and videos
[22:53] * andypiper (~andypiper@pdpc/supporter/professional/andypiper) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[22:53] <scummos> both can be done just fine without flash nowadays... and some day, people will notice that
[22:54] <lrusak> Syliss, I mean in practical sense
[22:54] <lrusak> the move to html5 is already underway
[22:54] <lrusak> it's just going to take time
[22:55] <yarekt> Has anyone had to RMA their pi ?
[22:55] <yarekt> here*
[22:56] <lrusak> nope :P
[22:56] <AC`97> yarekt: what did you do to fry it?
[22:56] <AC`97> :D
[22:57] <yarekt> AC`97: DOA, looks like the crystal problem, dead ethernet and USB ports
[22:57] <gordonDrogon> I did have my BASIC interpreter to work behind a web server :)
[22:57] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::a1f) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:57] * PiBot sets mode +v plugwash
[22:57] <gordonDrogon> s/have/hack/
[22:58] <lrusak> do you have an adequate power supply?
[22:58] <gordonDrogon> however it was really not a good idea...
[22:58] <yarekt> lrusak: I have iPhone 5V 1A charger and a decent cable. Tried with various USB ports and a USB3 port too
[22:58] <yarekt> (those are supposed to be 3A)
[22:58] <scummos> USB3 ports give 3A of power?!
[22:58] <scummos> nive
[22:59] <scummos> *nice
[22:59] <lrusak> I don't know about that. there are some motherboards that provide more powerful usb ports though
[22:59] <lrusak> anyways, that powersupply should be enough
[22:59] <lrusak> bummer for you I guess
[23:00] <yarekt> lrusak: Weird thing is, the 3 bottom LEDs flash couple of times during boot
[23:00] * markllama (mlamouri@nat/redhat/x-cppkktkmnoyfptbm) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:00] <lrusak> then no ethernet connection?
[23:01] <yarekt> nope
[23:01] <lrusak> hmm
[23:01] <lrusak> OS?
[23:01] <yarekt> debian from pi's website, latest
[23:01] <yarekt> well, wheesy
[23:01] <lrusak> does ifconfig show an adapter?
[23:02] <yarekt> how can i possibly try that, USB doesn't work
[23:02] * markbook (markllama@nat/redhat/x-viwxrdnsjvobrvfp) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:02] * PiBot sets mode +v markbook
[23:02] <lrusak> ssh?
[23:02] <lrusak> ah hahah
[23:02] <yarekt> lol
[23:02] <lrusak> damn
[23:02] <yarekt> I do see it detecting 3 USB port hub from the screen vomit when it loads
[23:03] <yarekt> Im going to try the Arch linux distro, see if i get further
[23:03] <lrusak> raspbian?
[23:03] <yarekt> lrusak: sorry?
[23:03] <thrawed> yarekt: the ethernet is on the usb bus, so maybe it's detecting that
[23:04] <yarekt> but wouldn't the hub be dead if crystal isn't supplying the clock ?
[23:04] <AC`97> how do you know it's clockless??
[23:05] <lrusak> try yelling at it
[23:05] * markbook (markllama@nat/redhat/x-viwxrdnsjvobrvfp) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:05] <yarekt> Its a hunch, reading the forums AC`97
[23:05] <AC`97> ah i see
[23:05] <AC`97> hook up a serial console
[23:06] <yarekt> Hmm, weird. Seems to work under arch linux. lit up like a xmas tree
[23:06] <AC`97> indeed
[23:06] <AC`97> pretty, eh?
[23:06] <yarekt> Erm, keeps going up and down tho =/
[23:06] <AC`97> the messages?
[23:07] <AC`97> (usb/ethernet?)
[23:07] <AC`97> if so, it's probably a power issue
[23:07] <yarekt> I don't have a monitor handy at the moment, I'll try connecting to the TV
[23:08] <yarekt> Hmm, very weird, It doesn't look like it has enough juice. brb, going to see what it says on the screen
[23:08] <yarekt> 1A should be plenty tho right?
[23:08] <AC`97> perhaps it's not stable
[23:09] <AC`97> it SHOULD work with just 700mA
[23:12] * Tomtiger11 (~tomtiger1@Tom4u/founder/tomtiger11) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Tomtiger11
[23:12] * Amadiro (~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * PiBot sets mode +v Amadiro
[23:14] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[23:14] * nezZario (~nezzario@wsip-184-191-58-204.no.no.cox.net) Quit ()
[23:15] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[23:15] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-99-23-242-34.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[23:16] * HoldenC (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[23:18] <yarekt> Ok this is well weird. The keyboard drops keys, and if i plugin ethernet, the whole hub disconnects every couple of seconds, and reconnects
[23:19] * xiambax (~xiambax@S01060023697f9afb.vn.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:19] * xiambax (~xiambax@S01060023697f9afb.vn.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:19] * PiBot sets mode +v xiambax
[23:20] * Maccer (~Maccer@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[23:21] <Amadiro> yarekt, how much mA does the power supply deliver?
[23:21] <yarekt> Amadiro: 1A
[23:21] <Amadiro> yarekt, is the keyboard on an external hub, or do you mean the rbpi board?
[23:22] <yarekt> Keyboard is 100mA cheap logitech
[23:22] * mischat (~mischat@93-97-51-125.zone5.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:23] <Amadiro> yarekt, directly connected to the rbpi?
[23:23] <yarekt> Amadiro: Yes
[23:23] <Amadiro> yarekt, do you have an oscilloscope?
[23:23] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:23] * PiBot sets mode +v SgrA
[23:23] <yarekt> No =( No multimiter either
[23:23] <Amadiro> yarekt, ok. Sounds a bit like maybe the regulator on the board may be broken or so.
[23:24] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:24] * PiBot sets mode +v mentar
[23:24] <yarekt> Amadiro: damn
[23:25] * Quietlyawesome94 (~chatzilla@adsl-074-184-089-183.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 14.0.1/20120722203403])
[23:25] * S0-2 (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[23:26] <Amadiro> yarekt, but hard to tell anything definite if you don't even have a multimeter -- for all I know, the keyboard might have a short
[23:26] <yarekt> So i unplug the keyboard, and plugin an ethernet cable. The 3 bottom LEDs light up for a few seconds (Computer says cable is connected) then they go off
[23:27] <yarekt> kernel messages say that the hub was disconnected
[23:27] <yarekt> and then after abit it reconnects again, and just does that in a loop
[23:27] <yarekt> its own ethernet port surely doesn't draw too much power
[23:27] <Amadiro> yarekt, maybe paste the kernel logs somewhere
[23:28] <yarekt> There is no way i can get them off the pi, I can't ssh into it
[23:29] <GriffenJBS> yarekt: what are you using for a power supply?
[23:29] <lrusak> save them to storage on the sd, then mount the sd in another pc
[23:29] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:29] * PiBot sets mode +v mythos
[23:30] <yarekt> Ok, give me a few mins
[23:30] <yarekt> just /var/log/messages will do right?
[23:30] <Amadiro> yarekt, I was specifically interested what the kernel says about the hub being disconnected
[23:30] <Amadiro> yarekt, /var/log/kern.log, maybe.
[23:30] <yarekt> or shall i do something like lshw or equivalent
[23:32] <lrusak> just dump /var/log :)
[23:33] * jprvita is now known as jprvita|afk
[23:34] * DaQatz (~DB@c-50-136-49-102.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[23:34] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-dev)
[23:36] * PiBot (~Raspberry@c-50-136-49-102.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:37] <duckinator> eurgh. just did a `pacman -Syu` on my Pi last night, and now it won't boot. the light that i believe is labeled "DK" keeps blinking, but it doesn't even show the little screen with various colors on it that the GPU usually does... all that changed was that i turned it off for about 12 hours
[23:37] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:38] <duckinator> any thoughts on what might cause that?... i see some stuff on the archlinuxarm forum saying it was firmware, but it says this issue was fixed over a week ago...i'd hop an -Syu last night would pull *that* in
[23:38] <duckinator> hope*
[23:40] <marcusw> how many blinks?
[23:41] * Kripton is now known as kripton
[23:41] * xCP23x (~Chris@188-221-134-151.zone12.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:41] <duckinator> marcusw: it's just been blinking repeatedly for like 10 minutes now in groups of 6 blinks with a pause between each group
[23:41] <marcusw> "With recent firmware, a coloured splash screen is displayed after firmware (start.elf) is loaded. This should be replaced by linux console a second later. However if the coloured screen remains, it suggests the kernel.img file is failing to boot. Try replacing it with a known good one."
[23:41] <marcusw> "6 flashes: start.elf not launched"
[23:41] <marcusw> --http://elinux.org/R-Pi_Troubleshooting#Green_LED_blinks_in_a_specific_pattern
[23:42] <duckinator> ah, thank you :)
[23:42] <marcusw> so the question is, did you back up your kernel?
[23:42] <marcusw> oh man, I hope they didn't push a bugged kernel :/
[23:42] <marcusw> there will be lots very annoyed people if so
[23:43] * Hoppo (~johnhopki@host86-143-155-188.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Hoppo)
[23:43] <duckinator> mmm..... i think they might have :< because all i did was a simple `pacman -Syu`, then a few hours later (so i'd doubt it didn't write something to disk) i shut it down because i'd been doing some experiments that redirect www.facebook.com for my whole LAN to it whenever it was on. figured my sister wouldn't be happy about that this morning, and didn't feel like undoing it at 3am :P
[23:44] <duckinator> but it'd been rebooted with that setup multiple times, so the only change was the -Syu
[23:45] * duckinator mounts the SD card locally and pokes around again
[23:45] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[23:45] * scummos (~sven@p57B1AAC2.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:46] <duckinator> well that's uh...interesting
[23:46] <yarekt> Amadiro: Erm, I can't mount the SD card's second partition (where ~/ is)
[23:46] <duckinator> marcusw: i think it was the part of the kernel update that tried to re-setup the former start.elf -- start.elf keeps giving an I/O error but everything else is ok
[23:47] <duckinator> marcusw: including arm*_start.elf
[23:47] <yarekt> Says Incorrect super block
[23:47] <elspuddy> is it sudo apt-get uodate to update the FW in the pi ?
[23:48] * M3nti0n|off is now known as M3nti0n
[23:49] <[SLB]> rpi-update
[23:50] <elspuddy> thanks
[23:50] <[SLB]> yw
[23:51] * highcenter (~highcente@unaffiliated/highcenter) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:51] <[SLB]> follow the instructions of this readme if it's the first time you ever run it, you also need to install rpi-update
[23:51] <[SLB]> https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-update/blob/master/README.md
[23:51] <marcusw> duckinator: ioerror? that's really weird...do a quick fsck, will you?
[23:51] * highcenter (~highcente@unaffiliated/highcenter) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:51] <marcusw> duckinator: also, if you do manage to read out the kernel, try check the sums with the packaged version just to see what happened
[23:52] <duckinator> alright
[23:52] <marcusw> duckinator: also, in your experiment, sslstrip will probably be very useful, but I'm sure you know that already ;)
[23:52] <duckinator> yup, i was using that
[23:52] <duckinator> scary thing is, courtesy of my router, i got all facebook users on my LAN pointed at my Pi in what would take under 5 minutes to set up now that i know what to do
[23:53] <duckinator> and as soon as it was shut down, it went back to normal
[23:53] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[23:53] <duckinator> my router (FiOS' default setup) automagically sets up any hostname you have. so i could `ssh pi` without any special setup and such
[23:53] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:53] <elspuddy> now if i can figure out where apachie2 holes the www files thaen i could get this rasbcontole thing working :)
[23:53] * scummos (~sven@p57B1AAC2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:53] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:54] <Squirm> elspuddy: usually /var/www ?
[23:54] <loadbang> how do we get colour to work from the composite video out?
[23:54] <loadbang> tried two TVs and two linux distros.
[23:54] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] * mentar (~mentar@94-195-22-204.zone9.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] <lrusak> loadbang are you only getting black and white?
[23:55] <duckinator> marcusw: looks like fsck knows all :P https://www.refheap.com/paste/4427
[23:55] <elspuddy> thanks Squirm :)
[23:55] <loadbang> lrusak: yes
[23:55] <lrusak> there may be a config.txt parameter that may help
[23:55] <duckinator> marcusw: thanks. looks rm'ing start.elf and copying the appropriate one should do the trick.
[23:55] <loadbang> just installing raspbmc now and that's the same.
[23:56] <Squirm> hmmm, I should test my composite. hdmi - dvi is working fine for me
[23:57] <loadbang> hdmi is fine here.
[23:58] <loadbang> humm, perhaps it is outputting ntsc
[23:58] * warddr (~warddr@Wikipedia/Warddr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:59] * RaycisCharles (RaycisChar@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit ()

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