#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2012-12-01

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <Opinie> Lartza: http://pastebin.com/Be259wWn
[0:00] <Opinie> that's what it says on my hosts file at the moment
[0:00] <Lartza> Yeah then your raspberry pi shows up as "raspberrypi" from software like samba, and if you want to change that change the last line and /etc/hostname
[0:01] <Lartza> But it won't let you access it with raspberrypi from other computers
[0:01] <Lartza> You can get a domain for it though but otherwise you have to set it on every computer
[0:01] <axion> you want to put the lan ip, not the loopback ip
[0:01] <Opinie> ok
[0:01] <Lartza> axion, Raspbian works fine like that
[0:02] <axion> and you can get rid of the ip6 lines if you dont use ip6
[0:02] <Lartza> It's the default install
[0:02] <axion> it actually speeds things up
[0:02] <Lartza> Opinie, Compile a kernel without ipv6 ;)
[0:03] <Lartza> I haven't actually compiled a kernel for RPi since it isn't as bad as desktop distro kernels
[0:03] <Lartza> For some obvious reasons
[0:03] <Opinie> how difficult is compiling a kernel?
[0:03] <fuzz1981> you can run a local dns server and have all your computers resolve it by name
[0:03] <Opinie> I don't know C or anything
[0:03] <Lartza> Opinie, It's not
[0:04] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[0:04] <Lartza> Opinie, You get the sources, run make menuconfig, change the settings and then make
[0:04] <axion> it onsists of about 3 commands and going through a menu making selections and learning about your computer's specific hardware
[0:04] <Opinie> how do I know what settings I want and what settings I don't want?
[0:04] <axion> the help button
[0:05] <Lartza> Opinie, On RPi everything hardware related you want and I am not sure how many extra features there are to disable
[0:05] <Lartza> But generally, lspci and lsmod on a currently running system and leave the drivers for your hardware
[0:05] <fuzz1981> zcat /proc/config.gz > .config
[0:05] <fuzz1981> that will start you out with a default config to work from
[0:05] <fuzz1981> rather the configuration of the kernel that you're currently running
[0:05] <Lartza> Hmm
[0:06] <Lartza> I'll take that Hmm back not even sure what I was thinking
[0:07] * Weaselweb (~quassel@77-64-181-50.dynamic.primacom.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:10] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.195.131) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[0:10] * timmmaaaayyy (~anonymous@cpe-74-73-185-27.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] * mdim (~user@155-99-179-251.uconnect.utah.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] * Meatballs is now known as Meatballs|Away
[0:13] * Orion_ (~Orion_@199.30.185.247) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] <timmmaaaayyy> i can't get my new wif to connect to my network???..also i'd like to know what all the commands are that the tutorials are telling me to enter into my wpa.conf file
[0:13] <timmmaaaayyy> anyone care to help?
[0:13] <Disconnect> man wpa_supplicant will define them all
[0:13] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[0:13] <frikinz> :)
[0:14] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:14] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.192.158) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] <timmmaaaayyy> so i shouldn't be listening to this: http://anup.info/blog/2012/07/29/raspbmc-wifi
[0:15] * uriah (~uriah@unaffiliated/uriahheep) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:16] <frikinz> it needs 2 lines in /etc/network/interfaces:
[0:16] * MichaelC|Away is now known as MichaelC
[0:16] <frikinz> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
[0:16] <frikinz> wpa-conf /etc/wpa.conf
[0:17] * Sakyl (~Sakyl@17.243.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[0:17] <timmmaaaayyy> ok yes i have those two???plus a third "auto wlan0" which should matter for now
[0:17] * elyob (~textual@host86-136-175-106.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[0:17] <frikinz> and an /etc/wpa.conf like:
[0:18] * LowValueTarget (~lowvaluet@unaffiliated/lowvaluetarget) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:18] <frikinz> network={
[0:18] <frikinz> ssid="foobar"
[0:18] <frikinz> proto=RSN
[0:18] <frikinz> key_mgmt=WPA-PSK
[0:18] <frikinz> pairwise=CCMP TKIP
[0:18] <frikinz> group=CCMP TKIP
[0:18] <frikinz> psk="strongpassword"
[0:18] <frikinz> }
[0:18] <Lartza> Does wine work in RPi? ;)
[0:18] <frikinz> hum sorry for the flood..
[0:18] <frikinz> or you can do it with wpa_supplicant
[0:18] * BCMM (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:18] <timmmaaaayyy> frikinz: that's exactly what i have???.my router doesn't even show an attempt when i say sudo ifup wlan0
[0:19] <timmmaaaayyy> i'd like to try with wpa_supplicant
[0:19] <mdim> anyone here that managed to get this device working with openwrt? http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/buffalo/wzr-hp-g300nh2
[0:19] <frikinz> timmmaaaayyy: your wireless device is seen in iwconfig right?
[0:19] <timmmaaaayyy> yes
[0:20] <Disconnect> mdim: I think I have the v1 of that, lemme check
[0:20] <frikinz> man wpa_supplicant.conf
[0:20] * akk (~akkana@71-92-201-115.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:21] <timmmaaaayyy> i don't have a wpa_supplicant.conf
[0:21] * srl295 (~srl@unaffiliated/srl295) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:21] <frikinz> timmmaaaayyy: does "iwlist wlan0 s" sees the ssid?
[0:21] <timmmaaaayyy> i have wpa_supplicant directory which has action_wpa.sh, functions.sh, ifdown.sh
[0:21] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@d154-20-247-171.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:21] <frikinz> yeah by default there's no wpa_supplicant.conf
[0:22] <timmmaaaayyy> iwlist?
[0:22] <Disconnect> mdim: yah mine is g300nh. works like a champ on ddwrt tho.
[0:22] <frikinz> part of wireless-tools
[0:22] <timmmaaaayyy> i can't even "man" on raspbmc
[0:22] <hnsr> got a wzr-ag300h, I love it
[0:22] <timmmaaaayyy> oh goodness
[0:23] <timmmaaaayyy> raspbmc must suck
[0:23] <timmmaaaayyy> let me try this on debian
[0:23] <hnsr> 128mb ram, 32mb flash, even a big-endian cpu to test code on :D
[0:23] <mdim> Disconnect: nh2 is a bit different, and hence has a different image
[0:23] * Kripton is now known as kripton
[0:23] <timmmaaaayyy> wait???.we should be able to make this work on raspbmc
[0:24] <mdim> uh, only now I realize that I'm not in #openwrt :)
[0:25] <Disconnect> yah
[0:25] <Disconnect> and lol
[0:25] * Kyzz_ is now known as Kyzz
[0:26] <Disconnect> timmmaaaayyy: for raspbmc there is a channel. in raspbian man works :) (fwiw my raspbmc pi is hardwired since I have a switch right there for consoles, old xbmc box, tv, etc)
[0:27] * Disconnect has used up all 8 ports on that switch. I might have a problem..
[0:27] <timmmaaaayyy> i just jumped in their channel. i'll see what they say. thanks all!!
[0:27] * b0ot (~DynamicFa@147.177.61.170) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:27] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:28] * cave (~cave@194-166-157-135.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[0:29] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] * mdim (~user@155-99-179-251.uconnect.utah.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[0:30] <frikinz> humm now that I've slimmed down my mounted raspbian.img to 300Meg, I wonder how to shrink the .img. Had forgotten about this
[0:31] <frikinz> original raspbian with no X, no gnome, no python etc..
[0:33] <frikinz> parted simply
[0:33] * yoavz (yoavz@37.247.54.248) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[0:34] * dero (~dero@p548B5525.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[0:35] * KameSense (~KameSense@home.kamesense.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:35] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@188-223-203-160.zone14.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:37] * messerting (~messertin@2a02:fe0:c510:660:216:eaff:fee3:60d4) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:38] * CelticTurnip (~celt@unaffiliated/celticturnip) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * hrebicek_wfh (~hrebicek@ip4-83-240-6-28.cust.nbox.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * FLHerne (~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:39] * luigy (~luigy@nat-alex-runet-out-7.rutgers.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:39] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[0:39] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[0:40] * yoavz (yoavz@yoavz.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * mdim (~user@155-99-179-251.uconnect.utah.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * mattwj2002 (~Matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] <mattwj2002> hi all
[0:42] * Haaninjo (~anders@85.8.55.65) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[0:44] <Lartza> Tomorrow I will be hopefully not flashing a MX25L4005 with an RPi (with SPI) but if I do, how? :S
[0:45] * mattwj2002 dances a jing
[0:46] <axion> frikinz: gzip file.img. then when you write it, you can do it fast in one step: dd if=file.img.gz | gunzip | dd of=/dev/mmcblk0
[0:46] <mattwj2002> I got my new case
[0:46] <mattwj2002> now I can actually use my pi
[0:46] <mattwj2002> :)
[0:47] * luc4 (~luca@host125-191-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:47] <luc4> Hi! Anyone who is able to use the egl_render VideoCore component?
[0:47] <frikinz> axion: how is that solving my issue to resize .img? I don't need 2G for a so small device. The 2G usb stick also has another distro. 800M max for raspbian. I'm using parted now
[0:48] <damo22> what does it mean when you see a hdmi screen with square RBG spectrum
[0:48] <Patagonicus> axion: That is totally redundant. gunzip -c file.img.gz >/dev/mmcblk0 will work just as fine and save you two processes and two pipes
[0:48] <damo22> RGB*
[0:48] <frikinz> damo22: did you manage to get what you wanted with out of tree building?
[0:48] <mattwj2002> I also have 32 GB sd card for my pi now
[0:49] <mattwj2002> w00t w00t!
[0:49] <hnsr> nice
[0:49] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev)
[0:49] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:49] <frikinz> I have a 2GB SD and a 800MB USB partition for / :)
[0:49] <damo22> frikinz: i managed to compile my driver out of tree and my device works now, but the kernel needs tweaking because it is not servicing timer interrupts quick enough for the usb spec
[0:50] <frikinz> damo22: so there is neither a kernel package nor kernel source nor kernel headers?
[0:50] <frikinz> damo22: you went through github?
[0:50] <frikinz> kernel source *package
[0:50] <damo22> frikinz: there are in the raspbian repo, but for an old kernel that doesnt have 512Mb
[0:51] <timmmaaaayyy> ok i got wifi connected???.but it won't connect at boot
[0:51] * mattwj2002 (~Matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[0:51] <timmmaaaayyy> isn't that what "auto wlan0" does?
[0:51] <damo22> frikinz: i didnt use github
[0:52] <damo22> i have 3.2.0-3-rpi from the repo with headers + kernel
[0:53] * jimerickson (~jimericks@pdpc/supporter/active/jimerickson) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:53] * mattwj2002 (~Matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:54] * luigy (~luigy@nat-alex-runet-out-7.rutgers.edu) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[0:54] <damo22> then i tried using the latest github kernel and cross compiling it with config file from 3.2.27+ with a tiny tweak and it wont boot and gives me a colourful screen on hdmi
[0:54] <mattwj2002> sorry ran out of juice
[0:56] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@d154-20-247-171.bchsia.telus.net) Quit (Quit: Gallomimia)
[0:56] <damo22> i used raspberrypi-linux-ada8b44.tar.gz
[0:56] * akiwiguy|away is now known as akiwiguy
[0:59] <damo22> i copied vmlinux (not vmlinuz or zImage) from the root of the tree and used it as my kernel.img
[0:59] <frikinz> damo22: ok :( I'll try from github tomorrow also. I'm now first doing a slimmed down raspbian img, put it on usb, overclock
[0:59] <damo22> is that the correct thing to do?
[1:00] <damo22> i have a feeling i need zImage
[1:00] <frikinz> damo22: I can't answer, I have the device since not long
[1:00] * luigy (~luigy@192.12.88.147) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] <frikinz> kernel.img: Linux kernel ARM boot executable zImage (little-endian)
[1:02] <damo22> how did you create that output
[1:02] * du (~fake@209.242.168.226) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] <frikinz> file kernel.img
[1:03] <damo22> from a pi?
[1:03] <damo22> when i run that on my pc it says zImage: data
[1:03] * uski (~uski@unaffiliated/uski) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] <damo22> must be binutils or something
[1:03] <damo22> some sort of file magic
[1:03] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqx252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Quit: Uploading hax.....)
[1:03] <frikinz> I guess you can. I've done it from my raspbian.img with sudo mount raspbian.img x/ -o offset=$((512*8192))
[1:04] <damo22> wow nice
[1:04] <frikinz> if you have mmcblk0p1 in etc/fstab then the first partition is mounted in /boot
[1:04] <frikinz> yes nice. also fdisk -l raspbian.img
[1:04] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:05] * Alfihar (~Yuuka@siberios.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Bye Bye)
[1:05] <damo22> useful :)
[1:05] <frikinz> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
[1:05] <frikinz> 2012-10-28-wheezy-raspbian.img1 8192 122879 57344 c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
[1:05] <frikinz> 2012-10-28-wheezy-raspbian.img2 122880 3788799 1832960 83 Linux
[1:06] * Kyzz (~quassel@131.123.112.12) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[1:06] <frikinz> so I've mounted with offset 122880, taken a static qemu, put it in usr/bin and chrooted. from there used debfoster to remove all what I don't need
[1:06] <frikinz> I don't need X
[1:06] * Kyzz (~quassel@131.123.112.164) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] <damo22> hahha
[1:07] <damo22> i dont need X either
[1:08] <frikinz> I'm a bit doing it the hard way: from outside the pi
[1:08] <damo22> what is the qemu for
[1:08] <frikinz> but where's the fun otherwise
[1:08] * jimerickson (~jimericks@pdpc/supporter/active/jimerickson) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:08] <frikinz> damo22: emulator so that my x86 laptop can execute the pi arm binaries
[1:08] <damo22> oh to emulate arm?
[1:08] <damo22> clever
[1:09] <frikinz> yes, just to run dpkg and aptitude remove stuff. also I'm pretty sure I could have done it from outside. well, postrm things might break if they run binaries
[1:09] <frikinz> ok. bed time for me. bye
[1:09] <damo22> catch you later
[1:13] <Opinie> do you guys use firewalls on your pis?
[1:13] <Opinie> nd gals
[1:14] <SpeedEvil> yes
[1:14] <linuxstb> no
[1:14] <SpeedEvil> though for no good reason
[1:14] <SpeedEvil> just that it's not hooked up to the external Internet.
[1:15] <mattwj2002> software firewalls in linux are stupid imho
[1:15] <mattwj2002> unless are you talking about ipcop ;)
[1:15] <pksato> two lines of iptables make a power full firewall.
[1:16] <Opinie> mm, I'd just want one that doesn't immediately stop me from using samba etc
[1:16] <damo22> well if you want to block all incoming connections to your lan it makes sense to do it on the router wan side with 2 rules
[1:16] <mattwj2002> ufw is interesting anyone ever use it?
[1:17] <pksato> firewall to prevent intrusion from local lan?
[1:17] <mattwj2002> pksato: it depends
[1:18] * m8 (~mor@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[1:18] <mattwj2002> are you talking a business server or a home
[1:18] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[1:18] <mattwj2002> a business server you might want a firewall on
[1:18] <mattwj2002> don't allow this group to access this server
[1:18] <mattwj2002> you can do the same thing on a layer 3 switch or a router
[1:19] <Opinie> how could I get a firewall that doesn't stop traffic from the local lan?
[1:19] <mattwj2002> Opinie: what are you looking at stopping?
[1:20] <Opinie> err
[1:20] <Opinie> I'm just worried someone manages to intrude from the external internet
[1:20] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.192.158) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:20] <mattwj2002> on your pi?
[1:20] <Opinie> yes
[1:20] <mattwj2002> is it directly connected to the Internet?
[1:20] <pksato> Opinie: dont run internet services on pi.
[1:21] <Opinie> well there's a router
[1:21] <mattwj2002> running nat?
[1:21] <pksato> no ssh, no http, no ftp, no etc.
[1:21] <Opinie> nah
[1:21] <Opinie> it's not running nat
[1:21] <damo22> wow my custom kernel works!!! with zImage
[1:21] <mattwj2002> so you have all public ip address in your internal network?
[1:22] <mattwj2002> what is your ip address on your pi?
[1:22] <mattwj2002> does it start with 10. 172. or 192.?
[1:22] <damo22> Linux raspberrypi 3.2.27++ #1 PREEMPT Sat Dec 1 07:43:06 EST 2012 armv6l GNU/Linux
[1:22] <Opinie> 217
[1:22] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.202.12) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:22] <mattwj2002> really?
[1:22] <mattwj2002> what the heck
[1:22] <mattwj2002> why are you using public addressing?
[1:22] <SpeedEvil> 10.0.0.31 here
[1:23] <damo22> 192.168.x.x
[1:23] <Opinie> yeah, maybe I'm completely lost and should just read up on IPs before asking anything
[1:23] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[1:24] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:24] <pksato> This my desktop is connected direct to public net work. (cable modem). And, dont have any kind of firewall. :)
[1:24] <damo22> my interrupts are sitting at 100/sec at idle now
[1:24] <damo22> (timer)
[1:24] <mattwj2002> I would love to hook up a linux box to the Internet
[1:24] <mattwj2002> and run a sniffer on that port
[1:24] <mattwj2002> hehe
[1:25] <mattwj2002> I am curious what can I say
[1:25] <mattwj2002> :)
[1:25] <Opinie> the router my pi is connected to does have a firewall though
[1:25] <mattwj2002> see if there are any bgp routes or anything hitting my modem
[1:26] <mattwj2002> besides my requested packets
[1:26] <mattwj2002> searches from china etc
[1:26] <mattwj2002> :P
[1:28] <SpeedEvil> well...
[1:28] <SpeedEvil> set your pi up as the 'DMZ' machine for your router
[1:28] <SpeedEvil> or turn on bridge mode
[1:29] <mattwj2002> SpeedEvil: I could
[1:29] <mattwj2002> that is true
[1:29] <mattwj2002> I doubt a pi would handle wireshark well
[1:29] <mattwj2002> though
[1:30] <lunra> Ran alright on my EeePC
[1:30] <SpeedEvil> tcpdump is lightweight
[1:30] <lunra> Depends a lot on your line speed
[1:30] <deep13> you can capture to a file with tcpdump, and then view it elsewhere
[1:30] <deep13> (with wireshark)
[1:30] <mattwj2002> good point deep13
[1:30] <SpeedEvil> 3 Meg :-\
[1:30] <mattwj2002> 12 Mbps here
[1:31] <mattwj2002> I really want a 30 though
[1:31] <lunra> 8Mbps on a good day. anyone else from Aus?
[1:31] <mattwj2002> I could get 105 Mbps but it is $199 per month
[1:32] <mattwj2002> that is consumer grade
[1:32] <mattwj2002> too
[1:32] <Opinie> mattwj2002: which dollars are those?
[1:32] * Olibois (~marieoliv@lns-bzn-52-82-65-69-205.adsl.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[1:32] <mattwj2002> usd
[1:32] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[1:32] <Hodapp> 2 Mbps on a good day here.
[1:32] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.202.12) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:33] <mattwj2002> US dollars :)
[1:33] <Patagonicus> I'm not sure what my top speed actually is, but I don't have problems getting over 100Mbps and that for 5???/month. It is labeled as "for studying and research only", but no one is checking that.
[1:33] * lunra feels for you, a year ago I had 512k
[1:33] <mattwj2002> :O
[1:33] <mattwj2002> Patagonicus: really?
[1:33] * steve_rox (~steve@82-69-127-162.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:33] <Opinie> mattwj2002: 100mbps here 32,46 over here
[1:33] <mattwj2002> do you have an e class address?
[1:33] <Opinie> USD
[1:33] <Patagonicus> mattwj2002: Student dorm in Germany, direct optic fiber link to the University which is the ISP.
[1:33] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:34] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[1:34] <mattwj2002> where are you Opinie sweden?
[1:34] <mattwj2002> *Sweden
[1:34] <Opinie> finland
[1:34] <mattwj2002> ah sweet
[1:34] <mattwj2002> nice Patagonicus too
[1:34] * RaTTuS|BIG (~Rattus.bi@80.4.146.163) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:34] <Patagonicus> We also have a local Gentoo/Debian/some other distributions mirror. Getting your packages over gigabit is just great. :)
[1:35] <mattwj2002> hehe
[1:35] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.197.229) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:35] <mattwj2002> in the US we have Internet2 at some of the Universities
[1:36] <mattwj2002> never tried it but I hear it is super fast
[1:36] <Patagonicus> Hmm, just made a speed test, 149.846kbit/s down, 97.444kbits up. Although it is 1:36am right now, other times there are a lot more students using it which does affect performance.
[1:36] <mattwj2002> kbps?
[1:37] <mattwj2002> that is slow
[1:37] <mattwj2002> or do you mean Mbps?
[1:37] <Hodapp> mattwj2002: when I was at University of Cincinnati I hit an Internet2 server getting a Linux ISO or something and came close to maxing out GigE
[1:37] <Patagonicus> Oh, sorry, thats a German dot, which is use to separate the thousands. Just replace it with a comma in your head.
[1:37] <Hodapp> it was during the summer when no one was on the campus network
[1:37] <mattwj2002> oh sorry
[1:38] <mattwj2002> nice Patagonicus I am use to commas
[1:39] <mattwj2002> you are saying 149,846 Mbps and 97,444Mbps using German naming convention
[1:39] <mattwj2002> :)
[1:39] <Lartza> Why no gigabit? :(
[1:39] <Lartza> :D
[1:39] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-196-98.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] <Patagonicus> It does vary a lot, though. Rerun it a few times, one had a download of about 220Mbps, but upload is just showing 0 now.
[1:40] <mattwj2002> Right now I am getting 9.36 Mbps and .73 Mbps
[1:40] <mattwj2002> :-/
[1:40] * mattwj2002 moves to Europe
[1:40] <mattwj2002> :P
[1:41] <Lartza> What doe smine show...
[1:41] <Lartza> *does mine
[1:41] * Orion_ (~Orion_@199.30.185.247) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:41] <Lartza> Night so should be fast
[1:41] <mattwj2002> that is South Africa even
[1:41] <mattwj2002> hehe
[1:41] <Lartza> Or not...
[1:41] <mattwj2002> http://www.speedtest.net/
[1:41] <Patagonicus> Well, I don't think thats easy to get for a private household. My parents have something like ~10Mbps download, too.
[1:42] <mattwj2002> no I tested my speed test to South Africa
[1:42] <Lartza> 63.40/11.31 Mbps
[1:42] <mattwj2002> I am in Minneapolis
[1:42] <Lartza> That's my home connection, it's really 100/10
[1:42] <Lartza> But it gives more upload than is adverised for real
[1:42] <mattwj2002> do you have a gigabit ethernet card?
[1:42] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.197.229) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:42] <mattwj2002> otherwise you won't get what you bad for
[1:42] <Lartza> mattwj2002, Yeah
[1:42] <mattwj2002> *paid
[1:42] <Lartza> mattwj2002, I can get 9.9 from steam at times :)
[1:43] <mattwj2002> nice hehe
[1:43] <Lartza> And now speedtest is 73.16
[1:43] <mattwj2002> do you get a message hey slow down a bit
[1:43] <mattwj2002> :P
[1:43] <Lartza> And 11.33
[1:43] <Lartza> It's really bad for night time...
[1:44] <mattwj2002> where are you hitting though?
[1:44] <Lartza> ?
[1:44] <mattwj2002> with your speed test
[1:44] <mattwj2002> who are you connecting to at that speed
[1:44] <Lartza> Oh
[1:44] <Lartza> Closeby cities
[1:44] <mattwj2002> ok
[1:45] <mattwj2002> try Minneapolis and see what happens
[1:45] <mattwj2002> :)
[1:45] <mattwj2002> or somewhere in the US
[1:45] <Lartza> mattwj2002, Okay now it hit 85.26, trying Minneapolis next ;)
[1:45] <mattwj2002> nice ;)
[1:45] <Lartza> Umm
[1:45] <Lartza> Where is it? :P
[1:45] <mattwj2002> one second
[1:46] <Lartza> Ahh
[1:46] <Lartza> Got a map
[1:46] <damo22> i want make-kpkg to work with cross compiler
[1:46] <mattwj2002> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis,_MN
[1:46] <mattwj2002> map on the right
[1:46] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.196.158) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:46] <Lartza> Minnesota City? :P
[1:46] <Lartza> Hmm
[1:47] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:47] <mattwj2002> nope
[1:47] <mattwj2002> Minneapolis, Minnesota
[1:47] <mattwj2002> :)
[1:47] <mattwj2002> USA
[1:47] <mattwj2002> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hennepin_County_Minnesota_Incorporated_and_Unincorporated_areas_Minneapolis_Highlighted.svg
[1:47] <mattwj2002> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Usa_edcp_location_map.svg
[1:49] <Lartza> mattwj2002, No test server there?
[1:49] <mattwj2002> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Minneapolis,+MN&hl=en&ll=42.811522,-92.8125&spn=32.721402,79.013672
[1:49] <mattwj2002> yeah there is
[1:49] * HashNuke_ (~HashNuke@117.192.195.179) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:50] <Lartza> St cloud and Minnetonka :S
[1:50] <mattwj2002> one second hmm
[1:50] <mattwj2002> maybe not
[1:50] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.196.158) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:50] * HashNuke_ is now known as HashNuke
[1:51] <Lartza> Minnetonka is like a part of Minneapolis?
[1:51] <Lartza> Or at least Close
[1:51] <mattwj2002> oh yeah
[1:51] <mattwj2002> it is
[1:51] <mattwj2002> it is a suburba
[1:51] <Lartza> mattwj2002, Not that many datacenters in the cities ;)
[1:52] <mattwj2002> haha
[1:52] <mattwj2002> believe me we have some ;)
[1:52] <mattwj2002> we are not New York though
[1:53] <mattwj2002> or LA or SF
[1:53] <Lartza> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2342989434.png
[1:53] <Lartza> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2342990396.png
[1:53] <mattwj2002> cool Lartza
[1:53] <mattwj2002> Internet in the US sucks was my point
[1:53] <mattwj2002> :)
[1:53] <Lartza> :p
[1:54] <Lartza> Except in kansas city
[1:54] <Lartza> Or whatever
[1:54] <Lartza> Google city
[1:54] <mattwj2002> try Chicago
[1:54] <mattwj2002> that is an Internet hub in the US
[1:54] <mattwj2002> I wonder what hub I go through
[1:54] <mattwj2002> hmm
[1:54] <Lartza> traceroute
[1:54] <Lartza> :)
[1:55] <mattwj2002> exactly
[1:55] <Lartza> Chicago...
[1:55] <mattwj2002> me traceroutes to China
[1:55] <Lartza> And that would be :P
[1:55] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.195.179) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[1:55] <Lartza> Found it!
[1:55] <Lartza> So many providers
[1:55] <Lartza> Comcast?
[1:55] <Lartza> :)
[1:55] <mattwj2002> yup
[1:55] <mattwj2002> CenturyLink is another one
[1:55] * prothon (~prothon@d24-57-207-21.home.cgocable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:56] <Lartza> SilverIP
[1:56] <Lartza> Umm
[1:56] <Lartza> And like three others
[1:56] <mattwj2002> hmm
[1:56] <Lartza> This didnt go as planned...
[1:56] <Lartza> 3.30
[1:56] <Lartza> And 8.92 upload :P
[1:56] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-66-122-185-208.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[1:57] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.195.179) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:57] * jimerickson (~jimericks@pdpc/supporter/active/jimerickson) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:57] <prothon> Has anyone ever encountered raspbmc just freezing solid? I tried to ssh in but couldn't find the username / password online
[1:57] * digilicious (~gene@digilicious.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:57] <Lartza> mattwj2002, Chicago is really slow download-wise for me
[1:58] <mattwj2002> weird
[1:58] <mattwj2002> here is a fun tool for you
[1:58] <mattwj2002> http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/visual-tracert/
[1:58] * geordie (~geordie@96.49.144.92) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:58] * adb (~IonMoldom@178-211-235-11.dhcp.voenergies.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:58] <mattwj2002> there are better ones though
[1:59] <damo22> wow i pulled a kernel source tree that was cross compiled, transferred it to the pi, did a make clean and make scripts and i can use it to compile out of tree modules
[1:59] <Lartza> What the...
[1:59] <Lartza> mattwj2002, That cant be right so :P
[2:00] <Lartza> mattwj2002, It points my italian server through italy to sweden
[2:00] <mattwj2002> Lartza if you like ip addresses I have a site for ya
[2:00] <mattwj2002> one second
[2:00] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-66-122-185-208.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:00] <mattwj2002> http://www.ip2location.com/
[2:00] * thomashunter (~thomashun@c-67-167-132-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:01] <Lartza> mattwj2002, http://geoiptool.com/
[2:01] <mattwj2002> http://www.ip2location.com/demo works too
[2:01] <mattwj2002> nice link Lartz
[2:01] <mattwj2002> *Lartza
[2:02] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.195.179) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[2:02] <Lartza> Yeah that's what I use
[2:03] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.213.192) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[2:05] <damo22> i think the pi either cant do more than 110 interrupts per second on the timer or theree is something seriously wrong with usb on the pi with this kernel
[2:05] <SpeedEvil> does USB work OK?
[2:05] <damo22> not audio devices
[2:06] <damo22> which require low latency
[2:07] * scummos^ (~sven@p57B1B5F2.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[2:07] <damo22> i have a patched snd-usb-audio driver that i wrote for a device and it works flawlessly for 3 years on other hardware
[2:07] * scummos^ (~sven@p57B1B5F2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:08] <SpeedEvil> the pi can't even handle keyboards
[2:08] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.213.192) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[2:08] <damo22> just compiled it on the pi and lights popped up and i can play audio on it, but there is crackling and the timer interrupts max out at 110/sec
[2:09] <SpeedEvil> (misses a key up/down every 10 mins)
[2:09] <damo22> apparently usb needs 1024/sec
[2:09] <SpeedEvil> odd
[2:09] * Syliss (~Home@adsl-66-122-185-208.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[2:09] <damo22> i played with HZ=1000 but it wasnt seeming to make any difference
[2:10] <damo22> although i think i have improved it since the interrupt servicing of the timer is maxed out all the time instead of going idle
[2:11] * TimRiker (TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) Quit (Quit: This space intentionally left blank)
[2:11] <damo22> so it sits at about 100-110
[2:12] <damo22> i dont know if that would have a negative effect on power saving
[2:12] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.214.43) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:12] <damo22> but there is slightly less crackle on my audio
[2:13] <damo22> someone here mentioned a 'fix' existed for usb, i am still looking for it
[2:13] <SpeedEvil> There is no meaningful power saving on the raspberry pi.
[2:14] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[2:15] <damo22> http://forum.stmlabs.com/printthread.php?tid=2441
[2:17] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.214.43) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[2:18] * [SLB] is now known as [SLB]`
[2:18] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::de9) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:20] * NullMoogleCable (NullMoogle@cpe-66-66-112-9.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:21] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.214.180) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:22] * Cliff` (~cliff@cpe-24-166-45-86.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:23] <damo22> dwc_otg.fiq_fix_enable=1 #usb irq tweak?
[2:23] <damo22> dwc_otg.microframe_schedule=1 #usb tweak?
[2:23] <damo22> dwc_otg.speed=1 #forces usb1.1 to fix resetting of pi upon plugging in device
[2:24] * int3nz0r (~int3nz0r@86.86.66.141) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[2:24] * K4k (~K4k@unaffiliated/k4k) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:25] * KwisA (~KwisA@delprado.demon.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:28] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2:28] <DooMMasteR> 1. place @rwthCTF
[2:35] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.214.180) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[2:36] <damo22> the whole reason i bought the pi was so i could record audio through usb
[2:37] <damo22> is there a way to buffer it with arecord so it doesnt need so many interrupts on the timer?
[2:38] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.214.180) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:38] <damo22> INT NAME RATE MAX
[2:38] <damo22> 3 [ 8 Timer Tick] 104 Ints/s (max: 108)
[2:38] <damo22> 32 [g, dwc_otg_pcd, dw] 10036 Ints/s (max: 40670)
[2:39] <damo22> 65 [ ilbox IRQ] 2 Ints/s (max: 2)
[2:39] <damo22> 84 [ l011] 1 Ints/s (max: 43)
[2:42] * scummos_ (~sven@p57B1A337.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:43] * HashNuke (~HashNuke@117.192.214.180) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[2:45] * scummos^ (~sven@p57B1B5F2.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[2:49] * KameSense (~KameSense@home.kamesense.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:49] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:49] * Opinie (~Opinie@pc-184-130.cable.aina.net) Quit (Quit: Opinie)
[2:50] * jimerickson (~jimericks@pdpc/supporter/active/jimerickson) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:51] * Kanerix (~Kanerix@reverse.control4.com) Quit (Quit: It's not X-Chat!)
[2:53] * Armand (~martin@host86-144-29-133.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:55] * deffrag (~Dedec@unaffiliated/deffrag) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:57] * CelticTurnip (~celt@unaffiliated/celticturnip) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
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[2:59] * jthunder (~jthunder@174.3.126.51) Quit (Quit: jthunder)
[3:01] * luigy (~luigy@192.12.88.147) Quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
[3:03] * luigy (~luigy@192.12.88.147) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:05] * ball (~ball@c-24-14-239-108.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:06] * mdim (~user@155-99-179-251.uconnect.utah.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[3:07] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:11] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[3:12] * KwisA is now known as Dreamingpup
[3:13] * lars_t_h thinks he is running RISC OS RC6 on his Raspberry Pi
[3:13] <lars_t_h> - currently i am trying to find out to use my s-video to VGA converter box
[3:13] <damo22> what about a -rt kernel on rpi?
[3:14] <damo22> might that fix the usb issues
[3:16] <lars_t_h> damo22, i think troubles with usb is related to concurrency issues, so a rt scheduler might not fix usb issues
[3:16] * bzzn (~jan@h-86-217.a197.priv.bahnhof.se) has left #raspberrypi
[3:16] * scummos_ (~sven@p57B1A337.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[3:17] * zenodub (~zenodub@64.93.116.227) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:17] <damo22> lars_t_h: i am not familiar with concurrency, is that like a problem related to hardware trying to steal the same resources simultaneously?
[3:18] * akk (~akkana@71-92-201-115.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:19] * zenodub (~zenodub@64.93.116.227) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:21] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[3:21] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[3:21] <damo22> i thought that was exactly the kind of thing a scheduler is supposed to work out
[3:22] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:22] * PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[3:23] <damo22> or is there subtle interactions with the hardware that may cause fuzzyness?
[3:24] <pksato> new from model A http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2615
[3:25] * matt08 (~matt08@8.30.101.252) Quit (Quit: irc2go)
[3:28] <plugwash> wonder how long it will be before they can actually be bought by mere mortals who aren't super lucky
[3:28] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[3:30] <damo22> i prefer mine with an ethernet port
[3:31] <plugwash> Since the Pi was released i've been musing the option of pairing the model A with http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/56475-hub-3x-usb-ethernet-blkgrey-psg90189.html
[3:32] <damo22> oh
[3:32] <plugwash> total cost is about the same as a model B (that hub comes with a PSU that is more than adequate to power the Pi even though it isn't mentioned on the website), an extra usb port is likely to be very handy and i've found the asix usb ethernet in that product less troublesome than the smsc one used on the Pi
[3:33] <damo22> interesting
[3:34] <plugwash> in particular i've found the smsc chip and the bridging functionality in the linux kernel do not get one
[3:34] <plugwash> *on
[3:35] <damo22> plugwash: considering your ample research on this can you recommend a mains powered usb hub that can deliver 1.5-2A with at least 3 ports?
[3:36] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:36] <plugwash> honestly i've never really tested how much power hubs can deliver
[3:36] <plugwash> I just know that USB hub with ethernet comes with a pretty beefy PSU because i've bought a few of them (mostly using them with beagleboards...)
[3:37] <damo22> cool but i need a 240V AU model
[3:38] <lars_t_h> damo22, no concurrency is about computer science. Trouble with concurrency happens the same thing is used/modified in parallel
[3:39] <lars_t_h> damo22, if they only read that isn't a problem, but updating the same thing in parallel is very bad
[3:39] <fuzz1981> or updating and reading
[3:40] <lars_t_h> damo22, in other words this is about software
[3:40] <fuzz1981> hardware has concurrency considerations as well :)
[3:40] <damo22> lars_t_h: in that case i still fail to see how a clever scheduler would not help somehow
[3:40] * PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:41] <fuzz1981> and concurrency is about having the software arbitrate the hardware
[3:41] <lars_t_h> fuzz1981, true - with timing issues and more
[3:41] <damo22> are you saying that the software currently mixes inputs and outputs for different parts that affect each other in a feedback loop
[3:42] <fuzz1981> no
[3:42] <lars_t_h> damo22, urelated software
[3:42] <lars_t_h> *unrelated
[3:42] <damo22> oh dang
[3:43] <damo22> thats bad
[3:43] <lars_t_h> scheduling and USB I/O timing is very different
[3:43] <fuzz1981> whats bad?
[3:44] <ball> Putting a 32-bit processor on an 8-bit bus probably qualifies ;-)
[3:44] <damo22> if something operates on a separate irq then it should not have its input depending on the output of something operating on a different irq is that correct?
[3:45] <fuzz1981> ball: what 8 bit bus
[3:45] <fuzz1981> damo22: not sure i understand what you're trying to say .. some things have dedicated interrupts, some are shared
[3:45] <lars_t_h> damo22, USB is a very complex beast with 13 layers (if i renember it correctly)
[3:46] <damo22> 13?? crap
[3:46] <damo22> thats a lot
[3:46] <ball> fuzz1981: Just in general.
[3:46] <ball> fuzz1981: STE-bus, let's say.
[3:46] <fuzz1981> ah :)
[3:48] <damo22> but when i recompiled my rpi kernel with a different HZ value and removed the timer idling thing i got slightly better usb performance
[3:48] <fuzz1981> yeah the usb driver sucks
[3:48] <fuzz1981> hopefully it will improve
[3:49] * K4k (~K4k@unaffiliated/k4k) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2)
[3:49] <lars_t_h> The RISC OS raspi image doesn't have a FAT partition? strange, because the Pi needs a FAT partition to load its GPU image
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[3:50] <fuzz1981> although there are apparently some hardware limitations that require the CPU to create the preamble, the cpu has to do a lot of work in host mode
[3:50] <damo22> lars_t_h: do you think the RISC OS raspi would have better usb performance than any other software for rpi at the moment?
[3:51] <fuzz1981> but I think the driver can be improved .. it's a nasty mess if you look at it in the kernel tree :)
[3:54] * GabrialDestruir (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.165.85.180) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:54] <lars_t_h> damo22, if only 1 program uses too many resource everything else is the victim of that behaveour (it does not have pre-emptive multitasking, it is like windows 3.0/3.1 - task based multitasking)
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[3:55] <lars_t_h> fuzz1981, technical debt?
[3:56] <damo22> crikey, thats no good, is this because of the hardware or the kernel?
[4:00] <GabrialDestruir> Anyone know what it takes to get the TL-WN722N working with OpenElec?
[4:00] <lars_t_h> GabrialDestruir, WLAN / WiFi trouble ?
[4:01] <chithead> find out which chipset it has, use the correct driver for that chipset
[4:03] <lars_t_h> GabrialDestruir, Linux command to show wifi netwwork cards - the ones with "no wireless extensions." is not a wifi network interface:
[4:03] <lars_t_h> iwconfig
[4:04] * mattwj2002 (~Matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has left #raspberrypi
[4:04] <GabrialDestruir> That would work nicely if I had internet and could ssh in, but since I was trying to setup wifi it has no ethernet atm
[4:04] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[4:04] <lars_t_h> in Debian it should print wlan0 and something that begins with "IEEE 802.11"
[4:04] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir, might be worth asking the OpenElec guys, since it's a bit different.
[4:05] <ShiftPlusOne> They may have a plugin or whatever that you need
[4:05] <GabrialDestruir> Yea I did... but those guys don't answer 99% of any of my questions xD
[4:05] <chithead> when you ask at openelec, do tell them which chipset is on the wn722n so they don't have to guess
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[4:06] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir, yeah, I think if you google the chipset and openelec you'll find something.
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[4:07] <pksato> TL-WN722N use ath9k_htc, see if modlule is loaded (lsmod)
[4:07] <GabrialDestruir> Yea, well everything I'm seeing is "straight out of the box"
[4:08] <GabrialDestruir> I guess I'll ssh in and see what's up
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[4:14] <GabrialDestruir> Eugh, now it's suddenly working with ethernet in
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[4:24] <b0ot> Does anyone have any experience using a wifi sd card with a raspberry pi to transmit pictures?
[4:25] <SpeedEvil> in principle, it's possible
[4:26] <SpeedEvil> problem is, will the SD card understand the format required to boot the pi
[4:26] <b0ot> SpeedEvil: I'm trying to have the wireless SD card in the camera to transmit pictures live to my raspberry pi
[4:26] <b0ot> not put the wheezy image on the pi
[4:26] <SpeedEvil> oh
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> what SD card?
[4:27] <b0ot> sorry not put the wheezy image on the wireless sd card
[4:27] <pksato> camera to RPi?
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> does it work from a Linux box?
[4:27] <SpeedEvil> accessing the card that is
[4:27] <pksato> or RPi to some place?
[4:27] <b0ot> I'm not sure something like Eye-Fi
[4:28] <SpeedEvil> http://dx.com/p/flucard-sd-memory-card-w-wi-fi-for-camera-white-4gb-162942
[4:28] <SpeedEvil> runs Linux
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[4:31] <aus> you could try a separate sd card reader first just to see if the wifi part will work
[4:31] <aus> via usb
[4:32] <SpeedEvil> first step is to read the camera via WiFi on any Linux box
[4:32] <SpeedEvil> then get it working n the pi
[4:33] <pksato> b0ot: you intent to use rpi as photo frame?
[4:34] <b0ot> just experimenting with various things
[4:34] <pksato> trying to boot riscOS
[4:35] <pksato> no image on monitor.
[4:36] <b0ot> I wrote some scripts to do some stuff with pictures on the pi
[4:37] <b0ot> a lot of experiments
[4:37] <b0ot> some web based stuff etc
[4:38] <pksato> nice... riscOS runing,
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[4:40] <ball> !Nice
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[4:46] <lars_t_h> ok, i had just booted RISC OS - it is booting _very_ fast
[4:48] <Grievre> so if I wanted to code on the metal with the RPi how much setup code is necessary
[4:49] <Grievre> like does the bootloader hand off to whatever's on the SD card with the hardware in a ready-to-go state or do I still have a lot of initting to do
[4:55] * bizarro_1 (~bizarro_1@80.30.239.58) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:58] <lars_t_h> Grievre, a lot of initting - that is the stuff a kernel do very early in its startup process
[4:58] <Grievre> like what for example
[4:59] <lars_t_h> you also do the sam kind of initting in deeply ebedded systems (software w/o a kernel)
[4:59] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
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[5:00] <lars_t_h> setting up microprocessor I/O hardware registers, setting up - external to the CPU - hardware, things like that
[5:00] <lars_t_h> Grievre, ^
[5:00] <ShiftPlusOne> A good start would be http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/freshers/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/
[5:01] <ShiftPlusOne> and https://github.com/dwelch67/raspberrypi
[5:04] <GabrialDestruir> I have 32GB cards now.... now i'm stuck backing up my old cards xD
[5:05] <GabrialDestruir> Curious, has anyone tried owncloud on their raspberrypi?
[5:05] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir, yes
[5:06] <GabrialDestruir> I mean I know it can be done lifehacker article and all, was just curious how well it ran.
[5:06] <Grievre> lars_t_h: like what for example :P
[5:06] <GabrialDestruir> It seems it can mount external cloud services like Dropbox so I think I'm going to play with it.
[5:07] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir, I tried it with nginx and lighttpd... didn't work too well for me.
[5:08] <ShiftPlusOne> maybe it's because I was using sqlite, but changing pages took forever. nginx and lighttpd would time out on php requests, so I had to up the timeout times.
[5:08] <ShiftPlusOne> It's usable, but 'meh'.
[5:08] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[5:09] <fuzz1981> i hope the rpi inspires people to write optimized code :)
[5:09] <GabrialDestruir> Well if all else fails I could just toss it on my webhost and not worry about it on the pi.
[5:09] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[5:09] <GabrialDestruir> That's the idea theoretically.
[5:09] <Grievre> fuzz1981: I hope the rpi inspires people to write compilers that are better at optimizing! :D
[5:09] <Grievre> optimizing code is a computer's job imo
[5:09] <fuzz1981> lol no it isn't
[5:10] <GabrialDestruir> Small machine, limited resources, optimized code.
[5:10] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder if it'd run better on a 512 model
[5:10] <ShiftPlusOne> rubbish in, rubbish out. There's a limit to what a compiler can do.
[5:10] <fuzz1981> it's a very capable CPU, and it really highlights how bad most software is these days hehe .. people are lazy with uber fast computers
[5:11] <fuzz1981> O(n) time complexity stuff all over the place
[5:11] <GabrialDestruir> Oh yea it's definitely capable, but in the sense that it isn't a desktop, it's very limited resource.
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[5:12] <GabrialDestruir> if you waste 10 lines of code doing something that can efficiently be done in 3, you're just force the CPU to needless work and you'll notice it
[5:12] <fuzz1981> a compiler won't make a sequential loop much faster hehe .. a proper algorithm will (hash table, btree, skiplist, bloom filter, etc)
[5:12] <fuzz1981> LOC doesn't always matter
[5:12] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah.... yet if you bring up that sort of thing on some programming channels or forums you're told to get a better computer O_o
[5:13] <fuzz1981> a program with more lines can run much faster than a shorter one :)
[5:13] <GabrialDestruir> Depends on the lines and what they're doing I imagine. xD
[5:13] <Grievre> fuzz1981: Oh you meant optimizing /algorithms/. Usually when I see people say "optimizing code" I think of things like
[5:13] * b0ot (~b0ot@2002:45cf:5107:0:497a:8e09:25ba:a21) Quit (Quit: b0ot)
[5:13] <Grievre> hand-inlining functions, hand-unrolling loops
[5:13] <Grievre> using shifts instead of multiplies
[5:13] <fuzz1981> oh .. no
[5:14] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
[5:14] <Grievre> avoiding temporary variables
[5:14] <GabrialDestruir> Mmm....
[5:14] <fuzz1981> gcc optimizes pretty well
[5:14] <ShiftPlusOne> On the other hand, modern computers can handle a lot, so if the time it takes to optimize your algorithms exceeds the benefit you're likely to gain (most likely none), then why bother.
[5:14] <GabrialDestruir> Virtualbox doesn't like windows 8 much I'm guessing....
[5:15] <Grievre> like a lot of people still avoid using recursion even in cases where the recursive solution is the most readable
[5:15] <fuzz1981> yeah but the problem is still there on a modern computer .. the software gets slower as the hardware gets faster :)
[5:15] * srl295 (~srl@unaffiliated/srl295) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[5:15] <fuzz1981> i love coding on the pis .. if i can make something fly on it, it will be just that much better on a Xeon
[5:16] <Grievre> I honestly feel like if the recursive way to do something is the most intuitive, do it. Converting it to an iterative solution never gains you anything
[5:16] <GabrialDestruir> something inefficient is happening.... for some reason VBox is writing to both my C:\ and my D:\ while making this backup....
[5:16] <ShiftPlusOne> Hm, my computer seems to run everything fine. I don't have to wait for things to finnish (unless it's a render or a compile), I don't have to deal with GUI lag or anything of the sort. I am not sure that it is that much of a problem now.
[5:16] <Grievre> either A) it's tail-recursive, in which case the compiler will optimize out the tail call
[5:16] <Grievre> or B) you have to reinvent the stack anyway
[5:16] <GabrialDestruir> The thing is...
[5:16] * Loggiew (~logan@97-82-244-113.dhcp.hckr.nc.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:17] <GabrialDestruir> The faster computers make people think inefficient code is okay.
[5:17] <fuzz1981> thats my point
[5:17] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::de9) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:17] <GabrialDestruir> "Oh yea the computer can run that just fine... no need to change it"
[5:17] <lars_t_h> apropos recursion, i if use (tail) recursion, i don't call the function again but uses a goto - compiler don not always optimize away use of stack space
[5:17] <Grievre> lars_t_h: any sane compiler will
[5:17] <Loggiew> using arduPi library I get the following error, any ideas? undefined reference to `SerialPi::SerialPi()'
[5:17] <Grievre> like that is a very very very basic optimization
[5:17] <Grievre> to the point where some languages--languages from the 80s and 90s--have it in their spec that compilers MUST do it
[5:17] <ShiftPlusOne> If you're working on a project, why cost your employer money optimizing your code if they are not going to see the difference anyway? (Playing devil's advocate here)
[5:18] <fuzz1981> i deal with big data, it's sad when a 4 node hadoop cluster can be beat by a single computer with some custom C code lol
[5:18] <fuzz1981> it depends what you're doing
[5:18] <GabrialDestruir> Don't waste money on optimizing code.... write optimized code to begin with :D
[5:18] <lars_t_h> Grievre, The C# and Java compiler does not optimize that, AFAIK
[5:18] <fuzz1981> if it cuts datacenter costs in half it's a win
[5:18] <fuzz1981> watts are killer these days
[5:18] * CelticTurnip (~celt@unaffiliated/celticturnip) has left #raspberrypi
[5:19] <fuzz1981> CPU cycles == watts
[5:19] <Grievre> fuzz1981: one thing that really grinds my gears is when app designers don't bother optimizing their startup routines because "it only runs once anyway"
[5:19] <Grievre> fuzz1981: I've usually owned computers at least 5 years old and I often accidentally open an app I didn't intend to
[5:19] <GabrialDestruir> Once every single time you start the program...
[5:19] * lars_t_h like small machines like the Pi, which does not use a lot of energy
[5:20] <fuzz1981> the pi is really not better performance:watt though
[5:20] <Grievre> Like those times when I've accidentally opened say... azureus, back when I was using a sub-gigahertz celeron
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[5:20] <Grievre> and it was like grind grind grind grind
[5:20] <fuzz1981> yeah thats mostly disk io
[5:20] <fuzz1981> disks have become a lot faster
[5:20] <lars_t_h> fuzz1981, ARM 9 chips should change that
[5:21] <Grievre> fuzz1981: it was significantly worse for some apps than others
[5:21] <Grievre> fuzz1981: Specifically java apps
[5:21] <Grievre> although that's improved
[5:21] <fuzz1981> haha yeah pre jit java was awful
[5:21] <GabrialDestruir> Oh no, if I recall with Azureus it was CPU grind and a lot of it...
[5:21] <GabrialDestruir> sure it had disk grind too... but that program was horrible on the CPU
[5:22] <Grievre> fuzz1981: but I think optimizing for size is more important for most situations... stuff is rarely cpu-bound these days
[5:22] <Grievre> at least I personally run into memory bottlenecks more than CPU bottlenecks
[5:22] <GabrialDestruir> and unfortunately there's still quite a few programs out there like that....
[5:22] <Grievre> memory or IO
[5:23] <fuzz1981> usually IO for me
[5:23] <GabrialDestruir> You start them up and bam your CPU is hit hard.
[5:23] <fuzz1981> but not always
[5:24] <fuzz1981> i don't run X on the pis either
[5:24] <ShiftPlusOne> Anyway what wayland is like when it comes to memory usage?
[5:24] <GabrialDestruir> My issue atm is IO, I have no clue why this is writing to both C: and D: when the VM exists solely on D: .-.
[5:25] <fuzz1981> *shrug* writing log files or something to a vbox folder?
[5:25] <GabrialDestruir> I guess.... it's annoying though.
[5:25] <fuzz1981> i built a play 8x velociraptor raid today hehe
[5:26] <GabrialDestruir> I guess my lesson for today is don't use bs=4096 xD
[5:27] <fuzz1981> iostat was showing 150k tps when making ext4 on it .. took no time to make an 8TB FS
[5:28] <Grievre> fuzz1981: I just don't understand how a computer scientist could see the problem of "computers aren't good at optimizing code" and think "All programmers should learn how to optimize" and not "we should make better optimizers"
[5:28] <GabrialDestruir> All programmers SHOULD learn to optimize
[5:29] <GabrialDestruir> It shouldn't be a matter of write some code then optimize.....
[5:29] <GabrialDestruir> learn to be optimal and write your code optimized as possible to begin with...
[5:29] <Grievre> I disagree. I used to think that way and as a result my code is completely impossible for other people to understand
[5:30] <Grievre> because I automatically insert "optimized" versions of things that are non-obvious to someone who doesn't do the same
[5:31] <Grievre> making your code maintainable is a higher priority than making it optimally fast/small
[5:31] <Grievre> because code which is not maintainable might as well not exist
[5:31] <GabrialDestruir> and that's why you take the time put in things like "Hey this is what this does"
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[5:32] <Grievre> GabrialDestruir: which is more important: teaching computers to understand humans, or teaching humans to understand computers?
[5:32] <Grievre> I think right now the former is more important
[5:33] * ShiftPlusOne finds absolutes like that silly
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[5:34] <fuzz1981> you can abstract optimizations and still make it maintainable
[5:34] <fuzz1981> i split all my projects into a number of libraries
[5:35] <fuzz1981> then you end up with reusable code and well defined interfaces between functional sections
[5:35] <fuzz1981> and test test, valgrind
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[5:36] <Grievre> fuzz1981: so another thing is, if you are writing your code to be omniportable, there is no such thing as an optimal way to do a certain thing because it depends on the particular arch you're writing for
[5:37] <fuzz1981> yeah i generally don't write software thats used by others, so i know exactly where it will run
[5:37] <Grievre> Ah yeah see
[5:37] <fuzz1981> but i don't optimize often with ASM or arch specific stuff
[5:37] <ShiftPlusOne> It's a subjective call and the truth is somewhere in between. If you're going to be a programmer, understanding computers is, to say the least, a good idea. Knowing how state machines work and the architecture of the CPU is very much worth knowing. If you train the next generation to only be 'users' and only code in abstractions which hide what actually happens behind the compiler, you'll have very few people who'll actually understand
[5:37] <ShiftPlusOne> what they're doing. </rant>
[5:38] <fuzz1981> ShiftPlusOne: absolutely
[5:38] <fuzz1981> which is exactly what most 'coders' do
[5:38] <Grievre> I mean one way to look at it is like
[5:38] <Grievre> expecting everyone to know how a machine works from top to bottom, is not an efficient use of human mental capacity
[5:39] <fuzz1981> Grievre is advocating the opposite hehe .. make the computer "adapt" to the human .. it doesn't work like that
[5:39] <Grievre> it doesn't work like that /yet/
[5:39] <fuzz1981> actually it does
[5:39] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah, I was adressing Grievre's point =)
[5:39] <fuzz1981> why do you think most people now use python, ruby, php, *pick your flavor of the week*
[5:39] <fuzz1981> java
[5:39] <Grievre> fuzz1981: because they're awesome languages?
[5:40] <GabrialDestruir> Well that's the point isn't it?
[5:40] <GabrialDestruir> The reason behind the raspberry pi
[5:40] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:40] <GabrialDestruir> Learning to code as opposed to just being a user.
[5:40] * yofel (~quassel@ubuntu/member/yofel) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[5:40] <fuzz1981> they're awesome languages for certain tasks
[5:40] <Grievre> but coding is being a "user", no matter at what level you're coding
[5:41] <mhz> the tunnel has no end
[5:41] <fuzz1981> i use ruby often, but far less often than C and most of the ruby code will get implemented in C
[5:41] <GabrialDestruir> damnit.... I can't copy my backup image to my USB drive .-.
[5:41] <Grievre> coding at a higher level takes your mind off of solved problems and lets you look at the big picture
[5:41] <fuzz1981> depends how good you are ;)
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[5:42] <fuzz1981> the big picture for me is on a whiteboard or paper .. not a high level language
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[5:43] <fuzz1981> but i'll prototype in a high level language sometimes
[5:43] <fuzz1981> or use it for tasks that won't hurt performance
[5:44] <mhz> there's always something before something else, a lower level. it does not stop, i think
[5:44] <Grievre> fuzz1981: so the problem with doing things at a low level is that you have to redo them when that low level changes
[5:45] <GabrialDestruir> See... my problem with programming isn't even optimizing code -sighs-
[5:45] <Grievre> what happens when computers become trinary?
[5:45] <Grievre> when they stop being electronic?
[5:45] <ShiftPlusOne> mhz, it depends on where you want to stop. I think it makes sense to stop at logic gates.
[5:45] <Grievre> when EPIC is the norm?
[5:45] <ShiftPlusOne> after that you're just getting into a bit of (wrong) chemistry and then quantum physics.
[5:46] <mhz> ShiftPlusOne: right, it's definately a personal matter. exactly. and then philosphy perhaps. what a wonderful thing, the human brain
[5:46] <GabrialDestruir> I imagine if computers ever shift from electronic into biological computer... we're going to have a lot bigger issues than higher or lower level
[5:46] <ShiftPlusOne> Grievre, then we won't have anybody who knows how to write a compiler because they have all be trained to think in abstractions. =P
[5:46] <Grievre> fuzz1981: my preferred way of doing things is for most of the code to be in a HLL, profile it and pick out the routines that hog the most time, write C bindings to do those tasks
[5:46] <mhz> i don't see any wrong answer, as long as there are questions always being asked :)
[5:47] <GabrialDestruir> and frankly if that becomes the case I imagine the old ways of coding will be obsolete anyways.
[5:48] <Grievre> ShiftPlusOne: thinking in abstractions does not mean you don't know how to write a compiler ?_?
[5:49] <ShiftPlusOne> Sure it would... if you haven't been taught or bothered to learn what the computer does internally, good luck with that.
[5:49] <Grievre> ShiftPlusOne: the point is "what the computer does internally" is not the same for every computer
[5:49] <Grievre> but you want your code to run on every computer
[5:49] <ShiftPlusOne> .... so far it pretty much is.
[5:50] <Grievre> Yes, because people write code assuming computers work that way, no one can change how computers work
[5:50] <GabrialDestruir> Frankly once we've reached a point where programming is just drag and drop.... anyone will be able to make a program... and they won't even have to know why things work how they work...
[5:50] <Grievre> because then everyone would have to learn how to code all over again
[5:50] <Grievre> because no one fucking uses abstraction
[5:50] <Grievre> >:/
[5:50] <Grievre> GabrialDestruir: do you think everyone who wants to drive should know how an internal combustion engine works?
[5:50] <ShiftPlusOne> language a bit strong there O_o
[5:51] * ShiftPlusOne points to topic.
[5:51] <Grievre> wow really
[5:51] <Grievre> what is this third grade
[5:51] <GabrialDestruir> No, but everyone who wants to drive shouldn't be trying to put together a car?
[5:51] <Grievre> sigh
[5:51] <Grievre> I can never get my point across in this conversation
[5:52] <GabrialDestruir> and if you are trying to put together a car, I'd hope you'd have knowledge of an internal combustion engine
[5:52] <ShiftPlusOne> We get your point, it's just not a popular idea, so we're raising out objections. I actually like it and am wrapping my mind around some of where you're coming from.
[5:52] <Grievre> GabrialDestruir: actually most people who "put together" cars have very little idea how the engine works
[5:52] <fuzz1981> nahh thats just the thing that makes it go
[5:52] <Grievre> GabrialDestruir: because cars are made on an assembly line
[5:52] <Grievre> and everyone only knows how to do the one task that's their job
[5:52] <fuzz1981> which is also why most cars such
[5:52] <fuzz1981> *suck
[5:52] * Grievre facepalm
[5:53] <Grievre> if it wasn't done that way, cars would cost 10x as much
[5:53] <Grievre> and almost no one would have one
[5:53] <fuzz1981> it doesn't mean they don't suck :)
[5:53] <Xark> Grievre: Too much abstraction = slow. Sad truth with computers. However, if you don't care about speed, then any Turing complete system can emulate any other (with memory restrictions). I don't think it matters if binary, trinary or decimal based etc. to "compute".
[5:53] <timmmaaaayyy> powering the rpi from my TVs USB port???..AWESOME!!!!
[5:54] <GabrialDestruir> Right.... you're just skewing your own analogy.
[5:54] * asd (~asd@p54BA4165.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:54] <GabrialDestruir> If a single person decided they wanted to build a car, or restore a car, or whatever, they have to know how it works.
[5:55] <Grievre> My point is when it comes to complex things like computers
[5:55] <Grievre> A lot of great things can only be accomplished when you manage complexity
[5:56] <Grievre> could a single person build a computer from the ground up? some people, perhaps. Would it be as good as the computers that are right now designed by hundreds if not thousands of people working in parallel? heck no
[5:56] <GabrialDestruir> Depends on that single person I imagine...
[5:56] <fuzz1981> and you don't think the things that make computers awesome are well thought out and optimized? hehe
[5:57] <fuzz1981> they work day in day out splitting hairs
[5:57] <Grievre> look if you are making the motherboard for a computer, you are taking several chips, placing them and connecting them together
[5:57] <Grievre> do you need to know the inner workings of each chip? no, you just need a datasheet which specifies how it works from an outside perspective
[5:57] <fuzz1981> lol
[5:58] <fuzz1981> someone who has a better idea of how things are supposed to work will make a better motherboard
[5:58] <fuzz1981> you don't just "connect things together"
[5:58] <GabrialDestruir> I imagine someone who works for a company like intel would have the knowledge at the very least of what should be what, and I imagine there's people that work there who know exactly how those little chips work.
[5:58] <fuzz1981> next time you're looking at traces on a motherboard check out all the funny squiggly lines on the memory busses and whatnot
[5:59] <fuzz1981> they're not just there for fun
[5:59] <ShiftPlusOne> fuzz1981, arguably that comes from reading the datasheet.
[5:59] <GabrialDestruir> Because that's their job, they get paid to design and make better all the little chips and stuff that go into a motherboard.
[5:59] <Grievre> my point is that modularity and abstraction are things which have been central to digital electronics since the beginning
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[6:00] <fuzz1981> there's nothing wrong with abstraction
[6:00] <fuzz1981> until it gets too deep
[6:00] <piney0> another issue is by the time one person did the research, and assembled all the items in a motherboard, the technology would be vastly outdated.
[6:01] <GabrialDestruir> That's why we've optimized it piney0....
[6:01] <GabrialDestruir> You have the designs, you put them in optimized machines, and out pops everything you need in let's say an hour as opposed to weeks or months
[6:02] <Xark> Grievre: Was someone arguing against those? Modularity and abstraction are great. However, if you don't have good low-level detail oriented people taking care of the "foundation" then all the high level abstraction you add may not be able to "help" (if you care about performance).
[6:02] <Grievre> right you need SOME low-level people
[6:02] <Grievre> but not EVERY programmer needs to be good at low-level stuff
[6:02] <Grievre> which is the point I was making
[6:03] <ShiftPlusOne> Also, the earlier point about biological computers and so on. Whether the computer is a quantum one, or a biological one, it will still probably be a turing machine and have an instruction set similar to the ones we currently have. (Pure speculation there)
[6:03] <Xark> Grievre: Well, knowing those details typically helps the "performance" of the code. However there are always other factors about if it is "worth it" to learn the details (and which subset).
[6:04] <GabrialDestruir> Perhaps, but I imagine in the sense of a biological computer, instruction sets like that could become outdated very quickly, depends on the biological computer type I suppose.
[6:04] <Grievre> I think the increasing popularity and usability of FPGAs is pointing towards a future where the line between "software" and "hardware" is blurry
[6:05] <Grievre> like imagine if every computer had a processor with an FPGA on the side and any program can reconfigure the FPGA to do whatever
[6:05] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[6:05] <Xark> Grievre: It would be "great if" every programmer did know all the details, but I agree that is not realistic. There is a spectrum of programmers.
[6:05] <Xark> Grievre: That wouldn't really change much.
[6:06] * Xark has a FPGA dev board he programmed to display VGA currently running next to him (little project)...
[6:06] <Grievre> Xark: well I dunno with FPGAs, functional programming suddenly becomes very appealing
[6:07] <Xark> Grievre: Just a different "language" to code in.
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[6:07] <Grievre> since a functional program can have arbitrary parts either implemented in LUTs or turned into procedural code for the processor
[6:07] <Xark> Grievre: I disagree. You have to be up on the details to get good results from FPGAs.
[6:07] <Grievre> Xark: elaborate?
[6:08] <Xark> Grievre: Same as with coding. The details "matter" if you care about performance (and I am not talking significant difference).
[6:08] <Grievre> There seems to be this common attitude that optimizing will always be something that humans are better at than computers
[6:08] <Xark> er, I am talking significant differences. :)
[6:08] <GabrialDestruir> Though I have to admit.... the idea of something like drag and drop programming.... letting the compiler do all the work is very... appealing.
[6:08] * ShiftPlusOne wonders if this is going to turn into a discussion on whether we should have VHDL be much more optimized and have more abstractions so that we don't need to know about the logic >.>
[6:09] <Grievre> and yeah there will always be /some/ humans that are better, but already computers are better at optimizing code than humans when it comes to large projects
[6:09] <Xark> Grievre: So far, that is the case. It is not a fair contest because the humans know so much more about the "real problem" than the computer.
[6:09] <GabrialDestruir> SCREW LOGIC! JUST READ MY THOUGHTS AND GIVE ME A PROGRAM! >.>
[6:09] <GabrialDestruir> xD
[6:09] <Grievre> Xark: right but we're talking about /some/ humans there
[6:09] <Grievre> not /most/ humans
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[6:10] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir, if that was the case, I think most programs would be pure filth.
[6:10] <piney0> drag and drop programming reminds me of scratch and visual studio IDE
[6:10] <Grievre> you know this made me realize an interesting parallel
[6:11] <GabrialDestruir> Aye, it wouldn't be very good I imagine.
[6:11] <Grievre> for a while I've had the idea in my head that everyone should be taught basic psychology in high school
[6:11] <Xark> Grievre: Well, of course there will always be some level of human the machine is better than, but mostly it is a matter of time and training. I think any "competent" programmer can do better than a machine IF THEY CARE TO (computers are fast but very stupid).
[6:11] <Grievre> because humans are much easier to interact with when you know how they work
[6:11] <Grievre> :D
[6:11] <GabrialDestruir> Though I do wish I could just think things and program, though not at such an abstract level of "ooo program that does x" and voila program.
[6:12] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: *pouf*)
[6:12] <Xark> Grievre: What is totally true is that "silicon is cheap and human time is expensive". This is the reason everybody isn't writing in asm. :)
[6:12] <Grievre> Xark: sure, but there is limited resources for training people. Why train everyone to do x when a computer can do it
[6:13] <Grievre> Xark: I'm actually working on a graphics accelerator for my MIPS softcore right now :D
[6:13] <GabrialDestruir> I mean maybe it's just me.... but typing and using a mouse even touchscreens just feel so... inefficient.
[6:13] <Xark> Grievre: I have no argument with that. However, since peoples time is so scare, we have to put up with a lot of shoddy code. :)
[6:13] * luigy (~luigy@pool-108-50-173-45.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:13] <Grievre> ultimately computers should code themselves
[6:13] <Grievre> and we speak english to them
[6:13] <Grievre> imo
[6:13] <Xark> Grievre: I am patiently waiting for the "singularity". :D
[6:14] <GabrialDestruir> Self Programming Artificial Intelligence....
[6:14] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:14] <GabrialDestruir> A SPAI doesn't sound good for the human race to be honest...
[6:14] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[6:15] <Grievre> the question is: If we create an artificial lifeform, is it moral to program it to be willfully subserviant to us, or must we give it free will?
[6:15] <Grievre> even spookier question: what if we are the result of someone else asking that question? :x
[6:15] <ShiftPlusOne> We could give it the illusion of free will
[6:15] <ShiftPlusOne> Give it innate desire to do what we want it to do =)
[6:15] <ShiftPlusOne> and make it feel like it's a choice
[6:16] <Xark> Grievre: Very cool on the soft core BTW. I will be on to those soon (just getting started with FPGA). I am a looong time game programmer and have spent many long hours coding MIPS asm. One of my favorite architectures.
[6:16] <GabrialDestruir> Skip artificial intelligence all together, stay with pseudo artifical intelligence made up of pieces of other people :D
[6:16] <GabrialDestruir> Just insert a copy of yourself into the computer, you'll do whatever you want you to do because you're you.
[6:17] <Grievre> it's entirely possible that we'll find a way to genetically engineer computers into our own brains
[6:17] <Grievre> and abandon silicon entirely
[6:17] <ShiftPlusOne> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet
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[6:18] <GabrialDestruir> I think if we did create a true artificial intelligence though, I'd want it to know that it is A artificial intelligence, and B was designed to do whatever.
[6:19] <GabrialDestruir> As long as it stays within the scope of it's design why not allow it free will?
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[6:20] <Grievre> you know what would be creepy
[6:20] <ShiftPlusOne> (what I am getting at is that we don't have free will in the first place, at least not in the sense that we feel we do)
[6:20] <GabrialDestruir> For example an AI within a cellphone/pda would act as an AI Assistant, would be no different than hiring another person to do it. As long as their free will doesn't conflict with their job it's fine.
[6:20] <Grievre> if a race of beings, in order to better understand their own history, created a computer simulation of a universe designed so that creatures similar to itself would evolve
[6:21] <Grievre> this universe wouldn't be a perfect simulation: it would be granular for example
[6:21] <Grievre> when you try to measure below certain time/size scales, things appear random
[6:21] <Grievre> :x
[6:21] <GabrialDestruir> You should read Revelations by Ravenblack
[6:21] <Grievre> and they can manipulate the happenings in this simulation by manipulating that apparent randomness
[6:21] <Grievre> they can also savestate and revert if they want to
[6:21] <GabrialDestruir> Gives a very eerie view on that sort of idea.
[6:23] * luigy (~luigy@pool-108-50-173-45.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:23] <GabrialDestruir> What's a good program for burning .img files in Windows?
[6:23] * Cliff` (~cliff@cpe-24-166-45-86.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[6:23] <Grievre> GabrialDestruir: the aptly named "imgburn"
[6:25] <ShiftPlusOne> Grievre, for the sake of reaching a conclusion. Would you agree that there is benefit in having higher level languages and lower level languages and letting the users decide which they prefer? Rather than claiming one approach is better than the other?
[6:27] <GabrialDestruir> I can agree with that.
[6:27] <Grievre> ShiftPlusOne: I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm saying specifically that low-level languages are very often used in inappropriate circumstances
[6:27] <Grievre> because people are convinced that they're better than higher level ones in every way
[6:27] <GabrialDestruir> I imagine it'd depend on what you're trying to do.
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[6:28] <GabrialDestruir> Why not just create a compiler or something that just does all levels of languages and everyone is happy :D
[6:28] <Xark> Grievre: Read up on the "Holographic Principle" if you haven't. I think something funny is going on there that it is telling us something profound. This is a great video if you are interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHgi6E1ECgo
[6:30] <guntha1> oh man
[6:30] <guntha1> holographic universe was the one of the best books i ever read
[6:30] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@037096084054.mbb.telenor.dk) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:30] <guntha1> http://www.amazon.com/Holographic-Universe-Revolutionary-Theory-Reality/dp/0062014102
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[6:31] <Xark> guntha1: Thanks. I have read several books on it, but not that one (yet). :) I really enjoyed The Black Hole Wars as well as The Cosmic Landscape.
[6:32] <Grievre> GabrialDestruir: well for example let's say you're writing a compiler :D
[6:32] <guntha1> oh man i just happened to stumble in here and saw that, absolutely could not resist
[6:32] <Grievre> GabrialDestruir: And specifically you are writing the optimizer for a particular target arch
[6:32] * timmmaaaayyy (~anonymous@cpe-74-73-185-27.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: timmmaaaayyy)
[6:32] <Grievre> There's no reason why that code should be written to run on any particular arch (since you always want to be able to cross-compile from anywhere to anywhere)
[6:33] <GabrialDestruir> True.
[6:33] <Grievre> and it stands to reason that you will probably write an optimizer that is less buggy and gets better results if you concentrate only on optimizing the code that your optimizer is optimizing, and not also optimizing the optimizer's code :D
[6:33] <Grievre> one thing at a time after all
[6:34] <Grievre> whenever you have something that involves complex data structures like huge directed graphs and you want to do complex operations on those data structures
[6:34] <Grievre> it helps to have encapsulation and closures and first-order functions and garbage collection
[6:35] <Grievre> so that you don't have to juggle so many concepts
[6:35] <Xark> Grievre: That is all great until your requirements are for a "fast" compiler. :)
[6:35] <ShiftPlusOne> Make sure you otpimize that compiler using your compiler then.
[6:36] <Xark> ShiftPlusOne: Assuming it is written in itself (usually not the case except for C).
[6:36] <Grievre> Xark: then you just run the optimizer through itself :D
[6:36] <ShiftPlusOne> I know, I wasn't being serious, just anticipating Grievre's answer, heh.
[6:36] <GabrialDestruir> Heh....
[6:36] <Xark> Hehe :)
[6:37] <Grievre> The best thing about writing an optimizer is
[6:37] <Grievre> if it doesn't optimize itself as well as you would
[6:37] <Grievre> well then you need to change it!
[6:38] <GabrialDestruir> Write a compiler for optimization.... run it through a compiler that optimizes it, write further optimizations into a new compiler and run it through the compiler you just compiled, rinse and repeat until you've reached a compiler singularity?
[6:38] <Xark> Grievre: Again, that won't be fair. Because I will "know" things about the optimization problem that are not written in the source code (and can't be expressed in that language).
[6:38] <Grievre> Xark: but yeah I mean for example the optimizer in FPGA toolchains isn't as good as it could be. Like it /always/ trims duplicate signals instead of determining whether it would be better to do so or not
[6:38] * Xark notes I being the compiler programmer
[6:39] <Grievre> Xark: However I'm pretty sure that deciding which duplicate signals, if any, to trim, is an np-complete problem
[6:39] <Grievre> (it probably reduces to knapsack or something like that)
[6:39] <Xark> Grievre: I hear if you pay big bucks for the synthesis tools, they do much better. :)
[6:39] <Grievre> Xark: I'm using xilinx ISE right now, which IS the "big bucks" toolkit
[6:39] <Grievre> and it doesn't do that great of a job
[6:40] <Xark> Grievre: Hmm, I am using that one for free. I think they have "fancier" ones.
[6:40] <Grievre> also the GUI tools have awful user interfaces and shitty startup times
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[6:40] <Grievre> that's one thing: programmers who don't have to worry about the implementation details can spend that time instead worrying about how to design a user interface that doesn't suck
[6:40] <Xark> Grievre: Vivado?
[6:41] <Grievre> Xark: no the ISE tools like fpga_editor
[6:41] <Xark> Grievre: Right. I am saying I think Viviado is their new fancy tools.
[6:42] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[6:43] <Grievre> it totally blew my mind when I found out that there were tools that literally compile C++ to hardware
[6:43] <Xark> Grievre: The other issue is compilers do a _lot_ of work, so they tend to be slow pigs. So, once they get it all working, I hope they translate it to optimized native code. ISE in particular is soooo slow. It reminds me of C compilers in the 90s. :)
[6:45] <Xark> Grievre: Yeah the whole FPGA thing is a bit of a mind blower to me. Very cool though (and still very much like "programming" - but you have to think parallel).
[6:45] <mhz> quick off subject question: any issues using an hdmi > dvi cable on the pi to my lcd monitor?
[6:45] <Xark> mhz: Nope (other than no HDMI audio).
[6:46] <Grievre> might be a problem if you have one of those nonsensical LCD monitors that only uses the analog part of the DVI
[6:46] <Grievre> but in that case the connector won't (shouldn't) physically fit
[6:46] <Xark> DVI-A (however those are rare)
[6:46] <n1ko> mhz: shouldn't you know if you have issues with _your_ hardware :)
[6:47] <n1ko> mhz: btw am i having trouble with my car?
[6:47] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[6:47] <mhz> atm it's headless. have a hdmi>dvi cable on the way in the mail. just wanted to make sure there wasnt any gotchas
[6:47] <Grievre> Xark: verilog/vhdl were cool when I first started using them but now they're starting to get on my nerves
[6:48] <Grievre> Xark: they're both so friggin verbose
[6:48] <Grievre> they require you to do things explicitly when it makes no sense to do so, and they /don't/ require you to do some things explicitly where it does
[6:48] <mhz> n1ko: i haven't been paying that close attention to understand that ;)
[6:48] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[6:49] <Grievre> Xark: For example: if you instantiate a module, and you forget to declare a wire that's attached to one of the ports of that module, it will still compile if you only use that wire /after/ the module instantiation
[6:49] <Grievre> Xark: BUT!!! it will declare it as being one bit wide
[6:49] <Grievre> and therefore it will break if the port is bigger than that
[6:49] <Grievre> The fact that you can attach wires to ports that are bigger than said wire is a big WTF imo
[6:49] <Grievre> that should just be a compile error
[6:50] <Grievre> (this is all verilog, btw)
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[7:09] <Xark> Grievre: Yeah. I have mostly been concentrating at VHDL. It is certainly wordy (like Ada). I can "almost" read Verilog. :)
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[7:28] <mdxprograms> im here:)
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[7:36] <mikey_w> Hi Tink.
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[7:42] <GabrialDestruir> Yay my 32GB cards work :D
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[7:43] <GabrialDestruir> But I just realized they're only class 6.... I suppose that won't make a big difference.
[7:46] <ShiftPlusOne> I don't think it will.
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[7:59] <GabrialDestruir> But the bigger size will make all the difference when I upload or download things from the pi
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[8:12] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[8:21] * DexterLB (~angel@87-126-213-248.btc-net.bg) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:23] <GabrialDestruir> Yea... this is rather slow on the Pi and that's via LAN
[8:23] <GabrialDestruir> I couldn't imagine accessing it from like...
[8:23] * Da|Mummy (~Veki@cpe-76-190-196-98.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[8:23] <GabrialDestruir> anywhere else
[8:23] <ShiftPlusOne> Don't know that using a different SD card will help you
[8:27] * DexterLB (~angel@87-126-213-248.btc-net.bg) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:28] <GabrialDestruir> Nah, it won't in the sense the bottleneck isn't the SD, but on my OE box, I only had 2GB meaning I could only download well 1GB and some change worth of shows
[8:28] * Loggiew (~logan@97-82-244-113.dhcp.hckr.nc.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[8:29] <GabrialDestruir> and dropping shows directly onto the external for OE created a huge bottleneck since ethernet and USB are on the same hub
[8:30] * sigjuice (~sigjuice@184-106-98-73.static.cloud-ips.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:36] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
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[8:42] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:45] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
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[8:49] * craigb (~craigb@178.73.210.224) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:51] * tanuva (~tanuva@gssn-5f756d09.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:54] * i42n (~i42n@dslb-178-007-151-038.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:54] * Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@206.162.237.238) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[8:55] <DexterLB> does anyone have an idea when/if this will be available in farnell? http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-48883?CMP=SOM-TW-RASPI-PIVIEW-NOV12
[8:56] <ShiftPlusOne> You can just call them and ask
[8:56] <n1ko> weirdly enough that doesn't have external power even though the note even says it should have =)
[8:57] <n1ko> just like the comments are also pointing out..
[8:59] * Haaninjo (~anders@85.8.55.65) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:00] <DexterLB> yeah, strange
[9:01] <DexterLB> I've orered a similar one from ebay, and intend to hack it and use external power
[9:04] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:06] <n1ko> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-HDMI-Digital-Signal-to-VGA-Audio-Analog-Video-Converter-HD-1080P-PS3-Xbox-/330755203320
[9:06] <n1ko> i ordered a similar one to this
[9:06] <n1ko> works good, no problem
[9:07] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[9:09] * DarkTherapy (~DarkThera@92.40.253.25.threembb.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:09] <DarkTherapy> morning all
[9:10] * GabrialDestruir (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.165.85.180) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[9:13] <DarkTherapy> how do I get a bash script to launch at boot up, after the pi has an IP address and before login?
[9:13] * GabrialDestruir (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.165.85.180) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:14] <GabrialDestruir> Interesting fact... on my shared hosting with Godaddy... "Unlimited Storage" is actuall 4400GB xD
[9:14] <GabrialDestruir> actually*
[9:14] <Habbie> they might increase it if you hit that limit
[9:14] <GabrialDestruir> Or ya know....
[9:15] <GabrialDestruir> they might say "WTF, pay us more money or get a VPS"
[9:15] * OutOfLine (~user@82-220-74-46.dslplus.solnet.ch) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:16] <GabrialDestruir> I'm playing with owncloud on my shared since the minute I added dropbox to it on my pi it crashed xD
[9:16] <GabrialDestruir> Or I shouldn't say crashed, just timed out
[9:17] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[9:17] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:20] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir, ew... godaddy.
[9:20] <ShiftPlusOne> Won't be renewing my domain with them =/
[9:21] <GabrialDestruir> Oh wait I forgot... with GoDaddy it's 150GB not unlimited, dreamhost was unlimited but after the first year they're just expensive
[9:21] <ShiftPlusOne> I gave up on shared and cheap hosting =(
[9:22] <ShiftPlusOne> linode is great so far though, well worth it.
[9:22] <DexterLB> dedicated server ftw
[9:22] <GabrialDestruir> I suppose ultimately I could just host it myself, it's not like anyone actually visits my sites.
[9:22] <ShiftPlusOne> heh.. can't afford dedicated
[9:23] <DexterLB> ditto :D
[9:23] <ShiftPlusOne> heh
[9:23] <DexterLB> just sayin' :D
[9:23] <ShiftPlusOne> Though there is always the pi hosting thing where you send them your pi and they hook it up.
[9:24] <DexterLB> and charge you $100 a month for the broadband, yeah
[9:24] <DexterLB> well $100 might be an overstatement
[9:24] <GabrialDestruir> Eh... but then you're limited to the Pi's resources...
[9:24] <GabrialDestruir> and the Pi can't handle something like owncloud...
[9:24] <ShiftPlusOne> nice, didn't know they did that... I guess all that "free" on their page would be a bit misleading then.
[9:25] <ShiftPlusOne> I think owncloud can't handle the pi, not the other way around. owncloud is fairly trivial in its functionality, I don't know why it struggles.
[9:25] * DarkTherapy (~DarkThera@92.40.253.25.threembb.co.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[9:27] <ShiftPlusOne> "The service is absolutel free of charge - 100%. You pay exactly nothing except for the return of your "box""
[9:27] <GabrialDestruir> Yea no clue on that one. Cause while playing with the pi via ssh it seems fine.
[9:27] <GabrialDestruir> Yea they're also sold out.
[9:27] <GabrialDestruir> :p
[9:27] <ShiftPlusOne> https://www.edis.at/en/server/colocation/austria/raspberrypi/
[9:27] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[9:28] <GabrialDestruir> Though if you could get free hosting like that it'd be kind of cool.
[9:28] <GabrialDestruir> Make a nice little proxy server or something.
[9:28] <GabrialDestruir> SSH tunnel, whatever.
[9:29] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@82.153.97.13) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:30] <GabrialDestruir> I wonder what it'd cost to setup a hosting business like that, users can setup their own OS/etc ship it in preconfigured for the network it'll be on. They just plug it in and you're good to go.
[9:31] * gordonDrogon waves
[9:31] <ShiftPlusOne> hello
[9:31] <ShiftPlusOne> I suppose it would depend on the country and the ISP.
[9:31] <GabrialDestruir> I think for it to be sustainable there'd end up having to be a charge though... something like 5 or 10 bucks a month to cover power/bandwidth.
[9:31] <gordonDrogon> I've just connected, so don't know what the hosting business like that is, but I'm hosting a few servers that my clients shipped up to it - I just feed them power & interwebs...
[9:32] <[deXter]> gordonDrogon, Link?
[9:33] <gordonDrogon> drogon.net
[9:33] * stardiviner (~stardivin@218.74.182.138) Quit (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
[9:33] <ShiftPlusOne> gordonDrogon, hosting out of your 'basement' or got yourself a datacenter?
[9:33] <[deXter]> ty
[9:33] <gordonDrogon> but you won't find anything there.
[9:33] <[deXter]> heh
[9:33] * GabrialDestruir_ (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.165.85.180) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:33] <gordonDrogon> I have space in a data centre.
[9:33] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, nice
[9:33] <GabrialDestruir_> eugh that sucked
[9:34] <gordonDrogon> sort of a small part of my business - I host two dozen servers, switches & bits & pieces.
[9:34] <GabrialDestruir_> My OE restore is just having the worst luck.
[9:34] <gordonDrogon> although I'm thinking of cutting it back.
[9:34] <ShiftPlusOne> Not profitable or just to refocus on something else?
[9:35] * zangdar-64 (~zangdar64@97-58-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[9:35] * dc5ala (~dc5ala@stgt-5d84bec6.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:35] <GabrialDestruir_> An alternative idea... instead of paying 5-10 bucks for just your Pi, you could do 5-10 bucks for your regular type of server+pi hosting for 1 or 2 bucks
[9:35] * FR^2 (~fr@krlh-d9be68ce.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:35] * GabrialDestruir (47a555b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.165.85.180) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[9:36] <gordonDrogon> it's profitable - just, but the hassles are outweighing the benefits now.
[9:36] <ShiftPlusOne> ah ok
[9:36] <gordonDrogon> anyway, stuff to do today. back later!
[9:37] <GabrialDestruir_> You know.... all this computer has to do is write my backup image and expand storage to the rest of the drive... should take more than like 15 minutes
[9:37] <GabrialDestruir_> shouldn't*
[9:37] <ShiftPlusOne> take care
[9:37] <GabrialDestruir_> Yet I've been at this for like 2 hours.
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[9:39] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@82.153.97.13) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[9:44] * pigeta (~antonio@net-93-65-102-162.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:44] <pigeta> hey guys
[9:44] <ShiftPlusOne> 'lo
[9:45] <pigeta> i try to write the customers returns form to send back my pi
[9:46] <ShiftPlusOne> got a faulty pi?
[9:46] <pigeta> but there is some informatin tha that i dont know
[9:46] <pigeta> yes
[9:48] <ShiftPlusOne> so what's the information that you need?
[9:48] <pigeta> i don't know what i have to write in Stock no information and postcode information
[9:49] <ShiftPlusOne> ...surely you know your postcode O_o
[9:49] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[9:49] <n1ko> shoudn't you be asking the shop you bought it from rather than an unoffical channel dedicated to the device?
[9:49] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:49] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) Quit (Excess Flood)
[9:49] * Alfihar (~Yuuka@siberios.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:49] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) Quit (Excess Flood)
[9:50] <ShiftPlusOne> that too
[9:50] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:51] <pigeta> i know my post code
[9:51] <pigeta> but i'm not in England
[9:52] <ShiftPlusOne> The way I see it is you have two options. Either move to England, or contact the store directly and tell them their online form is bad and they should feel bad.
[9:56] * kripton is now known as Kripton
[9:58] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[10:00] * pigeta (~antonio@net-93-65-102-162.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) has left #raspberrypi
[10:01] <GabrialDestruir_> Heh...
[10:01] <GabrialDestruir_> It isn't just the pi
[10:01] <GabrialDestruir_> godaddy's servers flipped out at my connecting dropbox too
[10:02] <GabrialDestruir_> xD
[10:02] * Kripton is now known as kripton
[10:02] * kripton is now known as Kripton
[10:03] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir_, btw, if you want decent cheap shared hosting hostgator are pretty good.
[10:04] <GabrialDestruir_> Which makes me wonder... just wtf is it doing? Downloading all 17GBs for Dropbox's data? .-.
[10:04] <ShiftPlusOne> I was with them for a while until they banned me for using it to run a minecraft server and causing the other sites they host to be unresponsive >.>
[10:05] * rollin_rob (~robert@p4FD50E01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:06] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[10:06] <GabrialDestruir_> Okay... I think I give up, at this point it'd be just faster to recreate a fresh sd of OE and redo all my settings -.-
[10:06] <ShiftPlusOne> when you say OE are you tallking about openembedded?
[10:06] <GabrialDestruir_> openelec
[10:06] <ShiftPlusOne> ah, that would make more sense
[10:07] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqx252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:08] <GabrialDestruir_> I made a backup image but everytime I try to expand my space windows is all like "NO! I WANT THAT DEVICE" -disconnects from VM-
[10:08] <[deXter]> Use a real OS?
[10:08] <ShiftPlusOne> or rather use an OS fit for what you're trying to do.
[10:09] <ShiftPlusOne> if you don't want a linux partition, Mint works pretty well with the "install to windows" feature or whatever it's called.
[10:10] <ShiftPlusOne> Which is pretty much Wubi
[10:10] <[deXter]> Or just boot from a live USB
[10:10] <GabrialDestruir_> I'd just be happy knowing wth windows is getting greedy with it's USB devices -sighs-
[10:10] <ShiftPlusOne> the lack of persistance (by default) and overall slowness makes usb booting kind of meh.
[10:11] <[deXter]> Windows is greedy in general, no surprises there.
[10:11] <[deXter]> ShiftPlusOne, its not slow
[10:11] <[deXter]> unless you use one of those crappy $1 usb drives
[10:11] <ShiftPlusOne> I have found liveusb images to be slow =/
[10:11] <[deXter]> On my Corsair Flash Voyager, I used to multiboot five major distros and they flied
[10:12] <ShiftPlusOne> Yeah, that's the setups I had.
[10:12] <[deXter]> Faster than regular installs because its all cached to the RAM
[10:12] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:12] <[deXter]> And really, enabling persistence is just a one click option.
[10:13] <ryao> I have my Raspberry Pi now. :D
[10:13] <ShiftPlusOne> If it works for you that's good.
[10:14] <ryao> ShiftPlusOne: I don't know yet. I haven't installed an OS.
[10:14] <ryao> [deXter]: I have a Corsair Flash Voyager and I am trying to multiboot Gentoo Linux and Gentoo FreeBSD. I haven't gotten Gentoo FreeBSD booting yet. :/
[10:14] <[deXter]> ShiftPlusOne, every single person I know who uses live USBs work fine. I'm also a regular at my local LUG meetings and I always take the opportunity to show people new distros and stuff from my live USB
[10:14] <GabrialDestruir_> I think I'd be set using my Pi for all my linux stuff, just need to figure out the best method for viewing x
[10:15] <ShiftPlusOne> [deXter], you don't find that boot up time slower than normal?
[10:15] <[deXter]> Not at all, infact I find it faster than normal
[10:15] * peetaur2 (~peter@hmbg-5f76768d.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:15] <[deXter]> ShiftPlusOne, Your PC's issue could be that it's booting in USB 1.1 mode
[10:15] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[10:15] <ryao> I have ZFS on my USB key. :)
[10:15] <ShiftPlusOne> Hm, maybe I'll revisit it if the need arises.
[10:15] <GabrialDestruir_> With the right USB stick it can be really fast.
[10:16] <DexterLB> does the arch linux official image use systemd?
[10:16] <ShiftPlusOne> yeah
[10:16] <GabrialDestruir_> I just dislike having to reboot to do that linux type stuff.
[10:16] <ryao> I cannot seem to do more than 120 TPS on my Corsair Flash Voyager. :/
[10:16] <[deXter]> Some older BIOSes are weird like that, but you can use the PLoP boot manager to re-boot into the USB with proper 2.0 drivers
[10:16] <ryao> The write performance is lousy.
[10:17] <ShiftPlusOne> might be worth a shot, thanks
[10:17] * Yotson (~yot@2001:980:6ac8:1:e5eb:342:bbfe:1b0d) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:17] <[deXter]> ryao, With proper ext4 tweaks its not an issue at all :)
[10:17] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir_, if you ran linux you wouldn't need to reboot into it.
[10:17] <GabrialDestruir_> Linux isn't gaming friendly yet >.>
[10:18] <GabrialDestruir_> I mean sure some CAN run in wine....
[10:18] <GabrialDestruir_> but the performance is usually trash.
[10:18] <ryao> [deXter]: I use ZFS.
[10:18] <[deXter]> ryao, ah, well I've no idea about ZFS mount options.. :/
[10:18] <ryao> ZFS generally outperforms ext4.
[10:18] <[deXter]> GabrialDestruir_, Depends on the game
[10:18] <GabrialDestruir_> and I gave up on Ubuntu on my laptop after 12.10 systematically took away all my sound.
[10:18] <ShiftPlusOne> nonsense.... there's tux racer, super tuxkart, supertux.....
[10:19] <ryao> The only exception is that the USB key doesn't seem to like CoW.
[10:19] <[deXter]> GabrialDestruir_, If the performance is trash in general, Valve wouldn't have found that Linux performs way better than Windows
[10:19] <ShiftPlusOne> and the solitaire ports.... don't get me started
[10:19] <ryao> Grievre: Use Gentoo Linux. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/
[10:19] <ryao> Grievre: That was meant for GabrialDestruir_
[10:20] <[deXter]> http://www.zdnet.com/valve-linux-runs-our-games-faster-than-windows-7-7000002060/ also http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/10/29/154207/valve-linux-better-than-windows-8-for-gaming
[10:20] <ryao> Gentoo will enable you to fix your problems.
[10:20] <ShiftPlusOne> But yeah, I am mocking linux gaming, yeah wine isn't a perfect substitute.
[10:20] <[deXter]> "Summary: Despite spending years optimizing games for the Windows platform, Valve get its flagship Left 4 Dead 2 title running faster on Linux."
[10:20] <GabrialDestruir_> The performance isn't trash in gneral. But when you run things on wine then they tend to do more poorly.
[10:20] <GabrialDestruir_> That's running natively.
[10:20] <[deXter]> GabrialDestruir_, If you play any of the Platinum games, then the Wine experience is faster
[10:21] <[deXter]> I mean Platinum rated apps on the appdb.
[10:21] <ShiftPlusOne> When I was still trying to game on linux, I found obvlivion had a better frame rate under wine than on windows.... so maybe.
[10:21] <[deXter]> ^
[10:21] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[10:21] <[deXter]> I play Oblivion regularly too
[10:22] <[deXter]> (Because Skyrim sucks.. I'm talking about the game itself)
[10:22] * rollin_rob (~robert@p4FD50E01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[10:22] <ryao> I just purchased the Humble THQ Bundle to run on Linux.
[10:22] <weltall> i found the opposite :D
[10:22] <ryao> s/run/run games/
[10:22] <weltall> 50% slower on wine
[10:22] <ShiftPlusOne> I like skyrim, but it's a bit too repetitive.
[10:22] <ShiftPlusOne> The world is massive, but it's mostly the same thing
[10:22] <GabrialDestruir_> except for the fact THQ bundle is windows only
[10:23] <GabrialDestruir_> they forget to tell you that part, so it's all wine for those games
[10:23] <ryao> GabrialDestruir_: I have CrossOver.
[10:23] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir_, the windows logo at the top of the page isn't a give away?
[10:23] <ShiftPlusOne> and all the messages saying 'steam only'
[10:23] <GabrialDestruir_> It wasn't there when I originally went to the page.
[10:24] <[deXter]> weltall, Most often than not its not wine itself - but rather stupid graphics effects like Compiz (or compositing in general)
[10:24] <ShiftPlusOne> I went there as soon as I got the email and it was.. maybe it wasn't at prominent as it is now, but it was there.
[10:24] <weltall> nope
[10:24] <[deXter]> that slows down gaming on Wine
[10:24] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:24] <weltall> i've removed all compositingfrom my computer
[10:24] <weltall> it's wine
[10:24] <[deXter]> weltall, Which version?
[10:24] <[deXter]> and what game?
[10:24] <weltall> oblivion last
[10:25] <[deXter]> wine version?
[10:25] <ShiftPlusOne> and what graphics driver are you running?
[10:25] <weltall> last version
[10:25] <GabrialDestruir_> I didn't see it at all so who knows, either way I use windows so it's not a whole big issue for me.
[10:25] <[deXter]> well, "last version" doesn't mean anything as most distros ship really outdated versions of wine
[10:25] <weltall> from git should be recent enough :P
[10:25] <[deXter]> Ah. Hmm
[10:25] <[deXter]> Which drivers?
[10:25] <ShiftPlusOne> GabrialDestruir_, same here. I could probably live linux-only, but I prefer windows for gaming.
[10:26] <weltall> last nvidia
[10:26] <[deXter]> There you go
[10:26] <weltall> the only working ones :P
[10:26] <[deXter]> exact version please?
[10:26] <weltall> whathever is on ftp listed by date
[10:27] <weltall> same goes for linux kernel
[10:27] <ShiftPlusOne> Wonder if that last bundle will help THQ with their financial situation much
[10:27] <[deXter]> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/new-nvidia-driver-doubles-performance-on-linux
[10:27] <weltall> mine is after that
[10:27] <weltall> and no it doesn't
[10:27] <weltall> it reduces performance on all my games
[10:27] <[deXter]> Hmm.
[10:28] <[deXter]> Well, I'm on ATi so I can't really speak for nVidia. :P
[10:28] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@cpe-24-90-68-199.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] <weltall> ati broke a tv trashed the day after the card :P
[10:28] <[deXter]> (PS: Oblivion works better on ATi ;) )
[10:29] <weltall> sk on java works great better than on windows :P
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[10:35] <GabrialDestruir_> Apparently even with a powered USB hub, raspbian doesn't play nicely with more than one USB drive?
[10:36] <GabrialDestruir_> or does it just not hotswap?
[10:36] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[10:37] <linuxstb> GabrialDestruir_: In what way? I would have hoped that would have been the same as any other Debian distro. hotswap should work fine, assuming you umount and/or eject the drive before unplugging.
[10:38] <GabrialDestruir_> Well it doesn't seem to be recognizing any of my USB thumb drives, which is odd.
[10:38] <ryao> How much space do people using the Raspberry Pi typically use?
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[10:39] <ryao> I have some 4GB micro SD cards, some 32GB micro SD cards and an adapter to make them into normal sized SD cards.
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[10:41] <GabrialDestruir_> Eugh... only mounts them in root
[10:41] * biberao (~Unknown@unaffiliated/biberao) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:41] <GabrialDestruir_> in a file manager
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[10:42] <LostInInaka> ryao: 4 is fine???.32 though is helpful for xbmc w/o using an external drive
[10:42] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@188-223-203-160.zone14.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:44] <ryao> Has anyone gotten ZFS working on the Raspberry Pi yet?
[10:45] <ryao> Also, is there documentation on the bootloader? I am reading the Gentoo installation instructions and how the bootloader works appears to be magic. There are no references to installing it.
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[10:46] <ryao> There is nothing about the bootloader: http://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Raspberry_Pi_Quick_Install_Guide
[10:46] <ShiftPlusOne> ryao, don't worry about the bootloader, just make sure you have the kernel as kernel.img on the vfat partition and the right parameters in cmdline.txt
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[10:47] <CelticTurnip> ryao: you working on getting ZFS working on the Pi?
[10:47] <ryao> ShiftPlusOne: I am a kernel hacker and I am worried that the bootloader limits how I can configure the Raspberry Pi.
[10:47] <ryao> CelticTurnip: You could say that. I am the Gentoo Linux ZFS maintainer. :)
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[10:48] <CelticTurnip> ryao: yeah I know :)
[10:48] * notfunk (~notfunk@ip72-221-66-218.ri.ri.cox.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[10:48] <CelticTurnip> ryao: you're on ##freebsd a fair bit :)
[10:48] <ryao> lol
[10:48] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqx252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Quit: Uploading hax.....)
[10:48] <CelticTurnip> I saw you here, so I'm thinking... oooh things could be about to get interesting ;)
[10:48] <ShiftPlusOne> ryao, I can't think of any way that it will limit you. You can compile your own kernel, you can run bare-metal code, you can do whatever. You just don't have direct access to the GPU.
[10:48] <ShiftPlusOne> Well you do, but not 'officially'
[10:49] <ryao> CelticTurnip: I plan to use the Raspberry Pi as part of ZFS development in Gentoo.
[10:49] <ryao> ShiftPlusOne: I want ZFS to be the only filesystem on the flash.
[10:49] * notfunk (~notfunk@ip72-221-66-218.ri.ri.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:49] <ShiftPlusOne> then you're very much limited
[10:49] <ryao> The concept behind ZFS is that it should be able to manage everything for you.
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[10:49] <ShiftPlusOne> since the vfat partition is a requirement
[10:49] <ryao> ShiftPlusOne: Is there documentation on that?
[10:50] <ShiftPlusOne> none that I can pull up quickly
[10:50] <ryao> I might be able to hack around it by creating a psudeo partition inside of the ZFS partition.
[10:50] <ryao> ZFS leaves a 3.5M hole for a bootloader in its disk format. The vfat partition could go into that.
[10:51] <ShiftPlusOne> ryao, you might have better luck asking around in #raspberrypi-internals.
[10:51] <ryao> ShiftPlusOne: Thanks.
[10:52] <ryao> CelticTurnip: In theory, ZFS already has ARM support. lundman did most of the heavy lifting. I wrote a patch that helped improve it after seeing the result of his debugging efforts.
[10:52] <GabrialDestruir_> I need to better learn commandline stuff for linux xD
[10:52] <ryao> GabrialDestruir_: First lesson. Call it terminal stuff.
[10:53] <ryao> Commandline is a DOS term. It is not used in the UNIX world. ;)
[10:53] * DexterLB (~angel@87-126-213-248.btc-net.bg) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:53] <GabrialDestruir_> meh, commandline terminal, when you really think about it, it's all the same :p
[10:53] <ryao> Having the right technical jargon makes it easier to discuss things.
[10:54] * Haaninjo (~anders@85.8.55.65) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[10:54] <ryao> It makes people who know stuff more comfortable with sharing their knowledge.
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[10:54] <GabrialDestruir_> finally... resized my sdcard
[10:55] <CelticTurnip> ryao: can't wait to see what you guys can do :)
[10:55] <ShiftPlusOne> While the right jargon is important, I do hope this channel doesn't become one of those where people abuse newcommers for using the wrong terminology though.
[10:56] <CelticTurnip> gentoo/freebsd with zfs would be nice :D
[10:57] <GabrialDestruir_> eugh... still not booting -sighs-
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[10:58] <cdan> is it possible to read GPIO2 while it is configured as SDA ?
[10:59] <ryao> CelticTurnip: It certainly would. A FreeBSD developer is working on Raspberry Pi support. I talked to him about ZFS and he apparently has not though of it. Implementing support for Gentoo FreeBSD on ARM would require a bit of a commitment in terms of generating stages and keywording packages, but it is doable. This is an incredibly low priority for me though. The first thing that I want to do is get Gentoo Linux running. I will figure out my ...
[10:59] <ryao> ... next step afterward.
[11:00] * luigy (~luigy@pool-108-50-173-45.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:01] <CelticTurnip> any work you can do will be appreciated, and if we do see ZFS support appreciated would be the understatement of the year :)
[11:02] <ryao> CelticTurnip: On Linux or FreeBSD?
[11:02] <CelticTurnip> either :)
[11:02] <ryao> CelticTurnip: If you are running Gentoo Linux, try compiling ZFS. It likely would just work.
[11:02] <ryao> Booting off ZFS on the other hand is another story.
[11:02] <CelticTurnip> I use OpenBSD and FreeBSD, all of my FreeBSD boxes currently use ZFS
[11:03] <ryao> It might also just work on FreeBSD as well. Booting is another story there too though.
[11:03] <CelticTurnip> I'm talking about your work in relation to the Pi, I know you've done an amazing job on both Gentoo/Linux and Gentoo/FreeBSD :)
[11:03] <ryao> ZFS on the Raspberry Pi is untested as far as I know.
[11:03] <ryao> CelticTurnip: Thanks. :)
[11:03] <GabrialDestruir_> next time I'll just save myself the trouble and create the openelec disk from scratch
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[11:07] <GabrialDestruir_> As long as I'm running the latest firmware and the boot partition has the right flags nothing in openelec should stop it from trying to boot, right?
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[11:12] <asaru> ryao: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=19062
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[11:13] <asaru> or http://raspberry-python.blogspot.com/2012/10/zfs-file-system-on-raspberry-pi.html
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[11:14] <asaru> he's using fuse though
[11:16] <ryao> asaru: Thanks. This doesn't involve FUSE. :)
[11:19] <asaru> you have zfs working without fuse?
[11:19] <ryao> asaru: Yes.
[11:19] <asaru> link?
[11:19] <ryao> I am typing on a Gentoo Linux workstation that has ZFS as its only filesystem.
[11:20] <asaru> nice
[11:20] <asaru> what version of zfs?
[11:20] <ryao> asaru: Here are some installation instructions that I need to update: https://github.com/ryao/zfs-overlay/blob/master/zfs-install
[11:20] <ryao> asaru: Pool version 28
[11:20] <ryao> http://zfsonlinux.org/
[11:20] <asaru> ah
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[11:20] <asaru> they added encryption after 30 but as far as i know you cant do that outside of sunos
[11:20] <ryao> asaru: The early encryption code is online.
[11:20] <asaru> cause its not open anymore
[11:21] <asaru> i see
[11:21] <ryao> hg clone ssh://anon@hg.opensolaris.org//hg/zfs-crypto/gate
[11:21] <ryao> Here is a design document: http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/download/Project+zfs-crypto/files/zfs-crypto-design.pdf
[11:21] <ryao> asaru: Or you could just use LUKS: https://mthode.org/gentoo-hardened-zfs-rootfs-with-dm-cryptluks/
[11:23] <asaru> thanks
[11:23] <asaru> looks like lots of reading material :)
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[11:29] <GabrialDestruir_> and nothing... updated the firmware and everything, it seems the raspberry pi doesn't want to boot it
[11:29] <GabrialDestruir_> -.-
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[11:32] <delinquentme> sooo i just got my pi ... and i think its missing the JTAG headers??
[11:32] <delinquentme> its got a few dots where they're supposed to be .. but def no header pins
[11:33] <delinquentme> http://elinux.org/File:RpiFront.jpg just like this ... I guess that means its A-OK?
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[11:39] <tanuva> omg, 23 distributions available for the pi. don't people have anything else to do? :D
[11:40] <delinquentme> ok so i just installed wheezy ... I've got the pi ethernetted up to my laptop ... how can I ping it?
[11:40] <GabrialDestruir_> I guess this is just bad quality control, one card boots fine in the pi...
[11:40] <GabrialDestruir_> the other nothing
[11:42] <LostInInaka> delinquentme: directly linked? you using a crossover cable and serving it an ip address?
[11:43] <delinquentme> LostInInaka, Im not sure if its a crossover cable? .. just a normal ethernet cable .. but I've not given it an IP yet ... just the install process
[11:43] <delinquentme> so it seems that setting it up for a direct connection is as complex as just having it behave like another computer on my router?
[11:44] <LostInInaka> delinquentme: probably not then???you ar eprobably just using a regular cable???easier to just plug in your router or modem if you have one
[11:44] <LostInInaka> direct connect is maybe more complex depending on what you are running now or have setup
[11:44] <LostInInaka> tanuva: ok then I'll stop my development then :'(
[11:44] <delinquentme> ya it seems
[11:45] * kkimlabs (~kkimlabs@cpe-24-90-68-199.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:45] <Lartza> I don't need to swap TXD and RXD if connecting to TTL like I would with rs232?
[11:45] <tanuva> LostInInaka: yes, all development for the pi should be stopped and the pi used as a led lamp. I strongly advise that.
[11:45] <Lartza> RPi > TTL compared to RS232 > TTL
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[11:46] <LostInInaka> tanuva: whoa there buddy???a LED lamp???now I think you are asking for a tad too much...
[11:46] <delinquentme> " The current wheezy has SSH enabled per default. If you have a DHCP server in your network, it will work out of the box. " ??
[11:46] <Lartza> Also any tips on how to connect to solder points? ;)
[11:46] <delinquentme> http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/38/prepare-for-ssh-without-a-screen
[11:46] <tanuva> LostInInaka: just depends on how many photons you're used to :)
[11:46] <LostInInaka> delinquentme:yes plug in, scan your network to find its IP, and then ssh in
[11:47] <LostInInaka> tanuva: 3 at a time my friend???3 at a time
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[11:50] <GabrialDestruir_> Bah this sucks.
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[11:52] <delinquentme> LostInInaka, yeah the scanning network is the bit that I'm not sure on
[11:52] <delinquentme> its wired up to the lan right now sooo
[11:52] <delinquentme> actually I can just check the connections on the router :D
[11:54] <LostInInaka> delinquentme: probably quicker ;)
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[11:58] <linuxstb> ryao: IIUC, the bootloader needs a DOS partition table with a FAT(32) partition in it. Does your ZFS "bootloader hole" work that way?
[11:58] <ryao> linuxstb: In theory, it can.
[11:59] <GabrialDestruir_> This is going to bug me to no end .-.
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[11:59] <ryao> linuxstb: See sections 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4.
[11:59] <ryao> http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/download/Community+Group+zfs/docs/ondiskformat0822.pdf
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[12:03] <linuxstb> ryao: If you have questions/problems/feature requests about the bootloader, I would suggest posting on the raspberrypi.org forums - the relevant developers seem to be active there.
[12:04] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
[12:04] <ryao> linuxstb: Thanks.
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[12:09] <linuxstb> ryao: BTW, I don't think 3.5MB will be enough - the bootloader itself (which IIUC is bootcode.bin + start.elf + other assorted tiny files) is already 2.3MB. You then need your kernel image.
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[12:10] <delinquentme> so it looks like its not working =]
[12:10] <delinquentme> its connected up to the router .. which I've verified is running in DHCP
[12:10] <delinquentme> and all the other devices are showing up .. but nothing that could possibly be the Pi
[12:11] <delinquentme> so chances are I'll need to configure the pi for DHCP and or ssh
[12:11] <delinquentme> ja?
[12:12] <linuxstb> If you're running the latest Wheezy, then that's not your problem - dhcp and ssh are both enabled by default.
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[12:18] <LostInInaka> delinquentme: just try sshing on any sequencings holes in the ip range your royter uses for your internal network?
[12:18] <delinquentme> LostInInaka, I mean its not going to have an IP unless its coming from the router .. right?
[12:19] <delinquentme> like if its not in the list of DHCP clients .. then the Pi probably doesnt have an IP assigned to it
[12:19] <LostInInaka> no, it won't magically assign a usable one by itself
[12:19] <delinquentme> yeah and there were only 3 devices listed .. all accounted for
[12:19] <delinquentme> phone, laptop and iperd
[12:19] <delinquentme> iPeed*
[12:19] <LostInInaka> delinquentme: depends on the router???sometimes (especially an older one I had) would hand out IPs, but would not refresh the table
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[12:20] <LostInInaka> ipeed???.I7m scared to ask...
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[12:20] <LostInInaka> just try sshing in to the next IP???doesn't hurt to try and it will just error out if nothign is there
[12:26] <delinquentme> LostInInaka, its really cold downstairs where the router is
[12:26] <delinquentme> you should go plug it in for me
[12:27] <LostInInaka> delinquentme: I have long arms, but I don't know if I could reach all he way over there from here in japan
[12:27] <delinquentme> OOOO
[12:27] <delinquentme> awesome!
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[12:28] <LostInInaka> I know, having long arms is pretty great at times
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[12:34] * SirCrispinTheJew (RaycisChar@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:35] <delinquentme> You can check what's written to the SD card by dd-ing from the card back to your harddisk to another image, and then running diff (or md5sum) on those two images. There should be no difference.
[12:36] <delinquentme> this doesnt make much sense :D
[12:36] <delinquentme> I'd just like to verify the image
[12:38] * XeCrypt is now known as Tuxuser
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[12:52] <Borgso> Bah, missing 10x100nF in my gertboard package :S
[12:59] <scummos_> can probably buy them in $local electronics shop for cheap
[13:00] <damo22> or you could harvest from 10 guitars
[13:02] <Borgso> too bad there isnt any local shops selling stuff like this
[13:02] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:03] <Borgso> first time in ages i had time to play with this *sadpandaface*
[13:06] * deep13 (~deep13@c-71-56-122-103.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[13:07] <delinquentme_> what file system type is wheezy?
[13:07] <delinquentme_> orrrr does that depend on the card?
[13:08] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@APuteaux-652-1-21-97.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[13:08] <Borgso> /dev/mmcblk0p2 / ext4
[13:11] * Alfihar (~Yuuka@siberios.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[13:11] * ccssnet (~ccssnet@c-98-216-141-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://atccss.net)
[13:12] <delinquentme_> Ok so its fat32 ... but -t vfat isn't giving me what I want ... soooo I should re-write the disk image?
[13:13] <Borgso> If you put a wheezy SD card into Windows you will see a Fat32 part, but thats only bootpart afaik
[13:13] <Borgso> you will not see the ext4 part in windows
[13:14] * pigeta (~antonio@net-93-65-102-162.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:14] <pigeta> hi
[13:14] <delinquentme_> Borgso, im on linux
[13:14] * Alfihar (~Yuuka@siberios.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:14] <pigeta> need to enable my wifi pen
[13:15] * MaxHayman (MaxHayman@cpc1-walt14-2-0-cust192.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:15] <delinquentme_> https://gist.github.com/4181929 and thats my $ sudo fdisk -l
[13:15] <MaxHayman> hey
[13:15] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@APuteaux-652-1-56-171.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:16] <MaxHayman> Does anyone know if cpanel (or any alternative) works on raspbian
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[13:17] * Armand (~martin@host86-144-29-133.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:18] <Borgso> delinquentme_: http://pastebin.com/r1W21Eh1 fdisk -l on raspbian
[13:19] <delinquentme_> Im reformatting the SD card to ext4
[13:19] * ccssnet (~ccssnet@98.216.141.157) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:19] <delinquentme_> the pi can handle ext4 right?
[13:20] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-243-245.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[13:20] <n1ko> why couldn't it
[13:20] <n1ko> and that's the default of os the 'default' os raspbian. so, yeah :)
[13:20] <Armand> /dev/mmcblk0p2: UUID="#" TYPE="ext4"
[13:20] <Armand> I hope it does. :P
[13:21] * Bollinger (~peter@host86-179-133-21.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:21] <delinquentme_> Armand, shooped.
[13:21] <Armand> ?
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[13:24] <Bollinger> I need some advice on the best way of connecting ~6 temperature sensors to my pi. The sensors will be up to 5m away.
[13:24] * mythos is now known as thegreatandpower
[13:25] * thegreatandpower is now known as mythos
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[13:29] <Yotson> Bollinger: i personally like the one-wire sensors. ds18b20 for example. You will need some interface thingy though. http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/2812
[13:31] <Yotson> http://www.maximintegrated.com/products/ibutton/products/adapters.cfm is one of the ways to interface.
[13:31] <pigeta> i have a zd11-firwmaware wifi but how to install ?
[13:32] * dangerousdave (~dangerous@78.156.71.46) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:32] <delinquentme_> soo now that I"m pushing wheezy up again .. how can i verify that the sha1sum of the image pushed to the SD card is correct?
[13:33] <delinquentme_> can you guys access the .img file directly from the mount point ... ( linux )
[13:33] <Bollinger> Yotson, thanks that looks like it will do the job.
[13:33] <Lartza> How the hell do I do this connection http://postimage.org/image/4833l97sn/ with the RPi
[13:33] <Lartza> RPi replaces the max3232 and rs232
[13:33] <Lartza> Well it's only really where do I connect the ground?
[13:33] <Lartza> *3V
[13:34] * elyob (~textual@host86-136-175-106.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[13:35] <Yotson> Bollinger: main advantage imo is that it's all digital and factory calibrated. Ask the sensor to measure temperature, ask the sensor for the data. Only very simple math is used to get to a temperature in deg. C.
[13:36] <Yotson> no calibration/special power supply/... needed. It's a bus system so only 2 wires are needed, just string all sensors onto those 2 wires.
[13:37] <Bollinger> Yotson, sounds too good to be true ;-). The 1 (2) wire interface will work OK over 5m?
[13:37] <Yotson> yup. 5meter will do fine. at the local hackerspace we have a couple off lengths over 40meters.
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[13:38] <Armand> I need to find a hackerspace closer to me. :(
[13:38] <cave> hi all, i want to start a program at boot time. this program is using a Gui. how can i tell the program it should start in the display. startx is done at boot
[13:39] <Yotson> well, local. ~1hour drive. ;)
[13:39] <Lartza> How do I connect two 3V TTL's together?
[13:39] <Lartza> RPi and another
[13:39] <Lartza> Without anything between I am not sure what to do, since everybody is always connecting to 5V or 12V :)
[13:39] <Bollinger> excellent. I think my basket at farnell will be overflowing.
[13:39] <Armand> Yotson, the nearest to me is just over an hour by train.
[13:39] <Armand> Across London. -_-
[13:40] <Yotson> Bollinger: you have a small amount of assorted resistors? you need a external pullup.
[13:40] <Yotson> Armand: i live smack in the middle between 2. both are ~1hour drive by car.
[13:40] <Bollinger> My dad has loads!
[13:41] <Armand> It would take me a lot longer by car... this is London. :P
[13:42] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqx252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:43] <pigeta> guys i have download zd1211-firmware_2.21.0.0-1_all.deb ,installed,now to see my wifi device have to rebbot?
[13:44] * Meatballs|Away is now known as Meatballs
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[14:05] <MaxHayman> Does anyone know if cpanel (or any alternative) works on raspbian
[14:06] <Borgso> http://cpanel.net/cpanel-whm/system-requirements/
[14:06] <Borgso> Looks like it can be short on memory
[14:07] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[14:08] <Lartza> Trying to use kermit through SPI, it says /det/spidev0.0 is not a terminal device
[14:09] * Attenuated is now known as SgrA
[14:11] <scummos_> well it isn't a terminal device, is it?
[14:12] <Lartza> Hmm
[14:12] <Lartza> scummos_, Not sure what I need to do to make it one :/
[14:12] <scummos_> what is kermit?
[14:13] <scummos_> what does it try to do?
[14:13] <Lartza> scummos_, Terminal emulator for kermit protocol
[14:13] <Lartza> scummos_, I am trying to connect RPi to an android device with serial
[14:14] * jprvita|afk (~jprvita@las-gw.ic.unicamp.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:14] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[14:14] <scummos_> SPI is not what one usually refers to as "serial"...
[14:14] <scummos_> serial is more like "RS232" or so
[14:14] <scummos_> SPI is... SPI
[14:15] <scummos_> are you sure it is supposed to work like that? ;)
[14:15] <Lartza> scummos_, No :D
[14:15] <Lartza> scummos_, It has TTL, RPi should have ttl
[14:15] <Lartza> scummos_, It's also 3V by default so there should be no need for any chip in between
[14:16] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[14:16] <scummos_> TTL?
[14:16] <Gadget-Mac> Lartza: Which pins on the RPi connector are you using ?
[14:16] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[14:16] <Lartza> Gadget-Mac, TXD and RXD though nothing is connected yet
[14:17] <delinquentme_> sooo after pushing the wheezy image to the sd card ... I cant mount it
[14:17] <Gadget-Mac> scummos_: TTL - Transistor - Transistor Logic
[14:17] <delinquentme_> is this expected?
[14:17] <delinquentme_> ... it seems like it shouldn't be the case...
[14:17] <scummos_> Gadget-Mac: yes but that seemed out of context
[14:17] <scummos_> delinquentme_: it now has a partition table
[14:17] <Gadget-Mac> Lartza: So you don't want /dev/spidev then
[14:17] <Lartza> Gadget-Mac, Hmm?
[14:17] <Lartza> But what then?
[14:18] <delinquentme_> scummos_, so I need to find out which partion OF the filesystem on the sd card to mount?
[14:18] <Gadget-Mac> Lartza: have a read of http://elinux.org/RPi_Serial_Connection
[14:18] <scummos_> delinquentme_: yes
[14:19] <delinquentme_> scummos_, its /dev/sdb1
[14:19] <delinquentme_> and $ sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /media/raspberrypi isnt doing what it should
[14:19] <Lartza> Gadget-Mac, Hmm so pointing to ttyS0 should then allow kermit to work?
[14:19] <scummos_> but what instead?
[14:20] <scummos_> Lartza: to me it seems like you have to build some serial port logic first
[14:20] * codemagician (~anon@ppp-124-120-27-22.revip2.asianet.co.th) Quit (Quit: codemagician)
[14:20] <Lartza> scummos_, Hmm?
[14:21] <scummos_> "Note that the Raspberry has no PREBUILT COM port."
[14:21] <delinquentme_> wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sdb1
[14:21] <scummos_> delinquentme_: ... "see dmesg for more information"
[14:21] <scummos_> so what does dmesg say
[14:22] <delinquentme_> it says it cant find ext4
[14:22] <pigeta> can i see how many ampere raspberry use ?
[14:22] <Gadget-Mac> scummos_: Only need logic if you're NOT connecting to another TTL uart
[14:22] <delinquentme_> but i *just* formatted it in ext4 .. not 10 mins ago
[14:22] <pigeta> with keyboard mouse wifi ecc connect?
[14:22] <Lartza> Gadget-Mac, write access to UUCP lockfile directory denied.
[14:22] <delinquentme_> im looking at the sd card via disk utils GUI ... and it says ext4
[14:22] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:22] <Gadget-Mac> Lartza: Have you read the whole page ?
[14:23] <scummos_> Gadget-Mac: alright
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[14:24] * yoavz (yoavz@yoavz.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:24] <Dark_Apostrophe> Hello, I'm running Raspbian. How would I go about setting up an NTFS partition so that it mounts with read-write on boot?
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[14:50] <peetaur2> Dark_Apostrophe: fstab
[14:51] <ShiftPlusOne> Dark_Apostrophe, are you having a problem with linux saying it's RO even though you've put RW in the options?
[14:51] <Dark_Apostrophe> I know that, but more specifically... I haven't used Linux on a regular basis
[14:52] <Dark_Apostrophe> for a few years *
[14:52] <Dark_Apostrophe> Is ntfs-3g still required?
[14:52] <ShiftPlusOne> Last time I checked it's the way to go, yeah.
[14:52] <Dark_Apostrophe> ShiftPlusOne: No, a problem with my knowledge possibly being outdated
[14:53] <Dark_Apostrophe> Oh, alright - that solves that, then - thanks
[14:54] <ShiftPlusOne> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NTFS-3G
[14:54] <delinquentme_> okaaayyy i pushed wheezy up once again to a different SD card ... and when I attempt to mount the thing .. I'm getting the same file system issue
[14:54] <ShiftPlusOne> (for fstab examples)
[14:54] <Dark_Apostrophe> Thank you :)
[14:55] <delinquentme_> can anyone else on a *nix distro mount their sd card with $ sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /media/raspberrypi
[14:55] <ShiftPlusOne> delinquentme_, yes 'course.
[14:55] * ReggieUK (~ReggieUK@5aca5630.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o ReggieUK
[14:56] <delinquentme_> ShiftPlusOne, can you show me the output of $ ls /dev/raspberrypi
[14:57] <ShiftPlusOne> ok, that might take a while... I thought that was a hypothetical.
[14:57] <ShiftPlusOne> on windows right now, booting my laptop
[14:57] * dreamon (~dreamon_@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:58] <ShiftPlusOne> delinquentme_, while that's happening and because I am lazy and don't want to scroll up, what's the problem?
[14:59] <delinquentme_> ShiftPlusOne, I've pushed up wheezy ( the OS ) onto a number of different SD cards
[14:59] <delinquentme_> and I"m attempting to validate the image pushed up ... however I cant bc i've had the same issues with mounting the SD card after pushing the image to it with the "dd" unix util
[15:00] <ShiftPlusOne> did you reinsert the card after dding?
[15:00] <ShiftPlusOne> *sync and reinsert
[15:00] <delinquentme_> i sync 'd
[15:00] <delinquentme_> but i didnt remove and re input
[15:01] <delinquentme_> also should I push the OS .img up onto a sd card with or without a partition?
[15:01] <ShiftPlusOne> doesn't matter, when you dd the partition table is overwritten
[15:01] * Dark_Apostrophe (~tDa@unaffiliated/darkapostrophe/x-0983214) has left #raspberrypi
[15:02] <delinquentme_> ok lets try this again
[15:03] * thomashunter (~thomashun@c-67-167-132-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: thomashunter)
[15:05] <ShiftPlusOne> md5sums and the files http://pastebin.com/ABMgVqcg
[15:06] * luigy (~luigy@pool-108-50-173-45.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] <ShiftPlusOne> ignore the bootrom and bootcode files, those are mine.
[15:07] * fatpudding (~fatpuddin@178.74.56.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:11] <delinquentme_> ok finished uploading
[15:11] <delinquentme_> ran $sync
[15:11] <delinquentme_> now im gonna pop it out
[15:12] <delinquentme_> and back in
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[15:16] <delinquentme_> ok sooo I've got it mounting!
[15:17] <delinquentme_> but this is what I'm getting in the file system
[15:17] <ShiftPlusOne> delinquentme_, great
[15:17] * Zencrypter (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-114-9.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:18] <Zencrypter> Good afternoon everybody !
[15:18] <delinquentme_> https://gist.github.com/4182531
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[15:18] <Zencrypter> I have a little question for you...
[15:18] * elyob (~textual@host86-136-175-106.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:19] <Zencrypter> Has anybody of you tried to underclock the raspberry pi ?
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[15:20] <ShiftPlusOne> delinquentme_, that's fine, that's the root partition the pi will use
[15:20] <Zencrypter> I have seen on the internet that we could underclock the raspberry pi using the config file
[15:21] <Zencrypter> However, I am doubting about the stability of the raspberry pi...
[15:21] <delinquentme_> ShiftPlusOne, I guess I was looking to see the *.img file in there
[15:21] <delinquentme_> but thats cool
[15:22] <Lartza> Someone knock me to the right direction with TTL to TTL connection? I just end up shorting the Pi
[15:22] <ShiftPlusOne> delinquentme_, the .img file is the whole sdcard. the partition table and both partitions... you literally copied the bits from that file onto the sdcard.
[15:23] <ShiftPlusOne> Lartza, what are you trying to hook up to what?
[15:23] <Lartza> ShiftPlusOne, RPi to and android tablet
[15:23] * elyob (~textual@host86-136-175-106.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[15:23] <Lartza> Chinese cheapskate one :)
[15:23] <ShiftPlusOne> ah yeah, I remember you, I was no help. nvrm >.>
[15:23] * int3nz0r (~int3nz0r@86.86.66.141) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:23] <Lartza> :D
[15:23] <Lartza> I just short my Pi now :P
[15:24] <ShiftPlusOne> but gnd to gnd and tx>rx, rx>tx should be fine.
[15:24] <Lartza> Ordered a USB > TTL already but still
[15:24] <ShiftPlusOne> how did you hook it up?
[15:24] <ShiftPlusOne> and is the tablet using 3.3v?
[15:24] <Lartza> ShiftPlusOne, Yes
[15:24] <Lartza> 3v to 3v ground to ground tx to tx rx to rx iirc
[15:25] <ShiftPlusOne> you just need ground to ground and the other two
[15:25] <ShiftPlusOne> except you need to swap them so that tx goes to rx and vice versa
[15:25] <Lartza> ShiftPlusOne, Neither is rs232 so you sure? I think I actually did it both ways
[15:27] * markbook (~markllama@pool-74-104-180-140.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:28] * vikorasmussen (~pi@212-71-88-168.dsl.no.powertech.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[15:58] <delinquentme> woot!
[15:58] <delinquentme> so I'm able to SSH in
[15:59] <delinquentme> but! my router is having an issue identifying my machine and the raspberry pi
[16:02] <Patagonicus> delinquentme: What do you mean by identifying?
[16:04] <delinquentme> Patagonicus, so in the list of whos connected over LAN ... it shows up as unknown
[16:04] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:04] <ShiftPlusOne> are you talking about the hostname?
[16:05] <Patagonicus> Are you using raspbian or another Debian derivate? As far as I know the default dhcp client doesn't send the hostname. Install dhcpcd and uninstall the other, then it should work
[16:05] * ChubZee (chubzee@chubzee.vps.bitfolk.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:05] <Cykey> Could an inadequate power supply cause networking issues?
[16:06] <Zencrypter> Cykey, I think so
[16:06] * satellit (~satellit@bbb72-0-185-15.bendbroadband.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:06] <n1ko> inadequate psu could cause random thing, including that. easy to rule about, but maybe you want tell us about the problem
[16:07] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[16:07] <delinquentme> YESSSS its showing up now as raspberrypi !
[16:07] <uski> Cykey, it happened to me before, it was not on a raspi, but a specific PSU caused networking issues (network chip crashed after a few minutes)
[16:07] <delinquentme> woot :D
[16:08] * kripton is now known as Kripton
[16:08] <Cykey> Yeah, well, when I boot my rPI
[16:08] <Cykey> it doesn't say "My IP address is XXX.XXX.X.XXX"
[16:09] <Cykey> but my router says it's connected
[16:09] <Cykey> yet I can't even ping google
[16:09] <Patagonicus> Can you ping your router?
[16:10] * DexterLB (~angel@90-154-143-183.btc-net.bg) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[16:11] <Cykey> Yeah
[16:11] <Cykey> I'm talking to you guys with that router, so it does work correctly. :P
[16:12] * tzarc (~tzarc@x251-66.tzarc.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:13] <Patagonicus> I meant from the PI. The interesting bits are: Can you ping the router? Can you ping 8.8.8.8? And can you ping google.com? That tells us if 1. the basics are correct, 2. the gateway is correct and 3. if the DNS server is correct
[16:13] * booyaa (~booyaa@hack.rs) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[16:15] <Zencrypter> Cykey, Did you give a static IP to your Raspberry Pi ?
[16:15] <Cykey> Patagonicus, Oh, no. Can't ping my router from my PI. Says "connect: Network is unreachable."
[16:15] <Cykey> Zencrypter: No. Should I?
[16:15] <Cykey> (Maybe the cable is broken? Let me try another Ethernet cable.)
[16:15] <Zencrypter> Cykey, Normally, it uses DHCP but I've always given a static IP to my raspberry Pi
[16:16] <Zencrypter> The router immediately recognized it...
[16:16] <Zencrypter> Cykey, What is your router ?
[16:16] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[16:16] <Cykey> TP-Link R402M
[16:16] <Zencrypter> Ok
[16:17] <Patagonicus> Cykey: have you started the network scripts? You can also try running a dhcp client directly. I only really know Gentoo, though, so I can't help much with Debian based distros.
[16:17] <Cykey> network scripts?
[16:17] * NullMoogleCable (NullMoogle@cpe-66-66-112-9.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[16:19] <Patagonicus> Uhm, well, on Gentoo it is /etc/init.d/net.eth0, but as I said, I have no idea what debian uses
[16:19] <Cykey> Well the thing is, I've got internet to work on my rPI before
[16:19] <Cykey> but it works like 20% of the time
[16:19] <Zencrypter> Cykey, What does ifconfig gives back ?
[16:19] <Cykey> it's random
[16:20] <Cykey> Zencrypter: ifconfig -a?
[16:20] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:21] <Zencrypter> maybe :?
[16:24] <cdan> Zencrypter, it tells you what network interfaces you have and their configurations
[16:24] * DexterLB (~angel@82.137.111.242) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[16:25] <cdan> Zencrypter, you can also use it to configure a network interface
[16:25] * Hoerie (~Hoerie@ip24-182-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[16:26] * Hoerie (~Hoerie@ip24-182-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:27] <cdan> Zencrypter, :) I should not jump into a discussion before reading all the thread :)). Sorry for my inappropriate intervention
[16:27] <Cykey> Zencrypter: Well there's /etc/init.d/networking
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[16:38] <Zencrypter> cdan, Yes
[16:38] <Zencrypter> I wanted to check whether eth0 was recognized
[16:38] <Zencrypter> (And well recognized)
[16:39] <Zencrypter> By the way...
[16:40] <Zencrypter> I would recommend to everybody to make a backup of your system once you've configured everything !
[16:40] <Zencrypter> Because I am using the Raspberry Pi as a web server, and while my mum was hoovering, she unplugged the power supply...
[16:41] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable101.219-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:41] <Zencrypter> I've just finished to reconfigure everything, since the filesystem was completely broken :(
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[16:45] <fuzz1981> if you're using a journaled filesystem unplugging it shouldn't matter
[16:45] <Zencrypter> Normally...
[16:45] <Zencrypter> But not that time :/
[16:45] <Patagonicus> They can still get broken, its just more unlikely. And fsck is faster.
[16:45] <Zencrypter> I tried fsck
[16:46] * tanuva (~tanuva@gssn-5f756b60.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[16:46] <Zencrypter> But there was an uncountable number of corrupted inodes, etc...
[16:46] <fuzz1981> i've never had an ext3/ext4 with journal enabled that couldn't be repaired .. ext2 is a different story
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[16:46] <Zencrypter> It didn't succeed to repair...
[16:46] <fuzz1981> hmm strange
[16:47] <fuzz1981> its probably something to do with the SD card actually .. lost power while it was moving block around for wear levelling or something like that
[16:47] <Patagonicus> I had one, but most of the superblocks was overwritten by zeros. Stupid SSD in combination with LVM ???
[16:48] <Zencrypter> fuzz1981, I think so
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[16:50] <fuzz1981> i think i might rebuild all of mine with different partitions and make / read only
[16:51] <fuzz1981> only have to make it rw for upgrades or package installs
[16:51] <jdpond> Autologin. I am setting up a mutli-user system and I want users to be required to login. When the GUI is opened, it only opens with an autologin user (at both boot and when initiating a VNC session). When the "Logout" key is pressed, it simply presents the logged in screen again. How to turn this off?
[16:52] <Disconnect> weird question, but does anyone know if mmc support is planned for the bootloader? or is it just not possible due to the firmware?
[16:53] * Disconnect has a bunch of old mmc cards that would be perfect for booting since the aren't useful for anything else..
[16:56] <Disconnect> i wonder if swsusp is possible. it'd be risky (usb changes etc) but.. it would be a great way to move my desktop around without having to shut down all the time.
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[16:56] <Disconnect> more and more it looks like i need to get into the kernel-building business on this thing
[16:56] * Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@206.162.237.238) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:58] <Patagonicus> Disconnect: I don't see why it shouldn't be. CONFIG_MMC_UNSAFE_RESUME is probably be needed, but other than that it should work.
[16:59] <Disconnect> which part? swsusp or booting off mmc? with mmc i'm not sure its reading it :/ need to try again and take notes but it wasn't getting very far. i want to say it never got to the colors
[17:01] * Nik05 (~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[17:09] <Disconnect> jdpond: btw to turn off autologin just run raspi-config again. its under boot options or some such, you want to disable automatic X
[17:09] <Disconnect> bbl time to switch to usb-root
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[17:22] <jdpond> Disconnect: Thanks, but I don't want to turn off the Desktop, I want to make it so that the desktop requires a user login. E.g. if I press "Logout", it comes back requiring a login screen.
[17:23] <jdpond> It's something to do with the LXDE session automatically logging in a user - that's the undesireable behavior.
[17:27] * opieng (~opieng@95.144.13.193) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:28] <scummos_> desktop environments are not responsible for login
[17:28] <scummos_> do you mean LXDM?
[17:29] <jdpond> Yea, I think I need to change the startu to be lxdm instead of lxde
[17:30] <scummos_> ah, you start lxsession directly. yes, then you don't have a login prompt.
[17:30] * MichaelC|Away is now known as MichaelC
[17:31] <jdpond> That's the default. How would I make it so I start as LXDM?
[17:33] <scummos_> what system do you use, debian based?
[17:33] <jdpond> Wheezy
[17:33] <scummos_> I think they have this service thing
[17:33] <scummos_> so you just enable the lxdm service
[17:33] <scummos_> at bootup
[17:34] <jdpond> OK, let me give that a shot.
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[17:50] <opieng> anyone used ubuntu on the pi?
[17:50] <Cheery> I'm online and feeling like idle
[17:52] <PhotoJim> opieng: Raspbian will be a lot faster.
[17:53] <opieng> oh ok, sorry I am new to all this, I order my pi and due to arrive this Monday, and not sure which OS to start with
[17:53] <opieng> I am new to Linux too, only used ubuntu before
[17:53] <PhotoJim> opieng: Raspbian is an easy choice. it's Debian-based just like Ubuntu, but it's customized to be as fast as possible on the Pi.
[17:54] <opieng> brill thanks I will start with that :)
[17:54] <Cheery> anything else you wonder?
[17:54] <PhotoJim> I started with it, and I'm still using it. No need to change. :)
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[17:56] <opieng> what hardware are you using to run it with, size and speed?
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[18:05] <Jef91> Anyone know of a resource for setting up a Raspbian chroot on another ARM system?
[18:06] * ukgamer is now known as ukgamer|away
[18:07] <Jef91> nvm found one -> http://elinux.org/Raspbian
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[18:07] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[18:07] <Zencrypter> Can somebody paste me the result of /etc/sudoers on a raspbian system ?
[18:08] <Zencrypter> I am wondering if it is written NOPASSWD: ALL
[18:09] <linuxstb> Zencrypter: http://pastebin.com/2QpWm1vc
[18:09] <Jef91> Yes it is Zencrypter
[18:09] <Jef91> Some silly person opted that users should have root access
[18:09] * akiwiguy (~akiwiguy@unaffiliated/akiwiguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[18:09] <Jef91> with no login
[18:09] <Zencrypter> linuxstb, Thank you very much :)
[18:09] <Jef91> It is awful.
[18:09] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:09] * akiwiguy (~akiwiguy@unaffiliated/akiwiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:09] <Zencrypter> Jef91, I agree
[18:10] * anildigital (~anildigit@unaffiliated/anildigital) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:10] <Jef91> Easily changed thankfully, but it sends the wrong message to new users
[18:10] <Zencrypter> But the majority of new Raspberry Pi users may dicover the Linux World I think...
[18:11] * Hydrar (~hydrar@c80-217-122-171.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:12] <Hydrar> The documentation doesn't seem very specific on this, do I need a specific partition layout on the SD to make the pi boot?
[18:12] <Hydrar> Raspbian works but my custom image doesn't :/
[18:13] * Nahledge (87003a82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.135.0.58.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:13] <Nahledge> My disk space is full, and I did not fill it. I had a bunch of video files, I removed them but the disk space did not increase. I have already increased my partition to the full sd card size so that is not the problem.
[18:13] * Weaselweb (~quassel@77-64-181-50.dynamic.primacom.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:13] <Nahledge> Anyone else get this?
[18:13] <linuxstb> Hydrar: The boot partition needs to be FAT32. I'm not sure if that needs to be the first partition or not. Oh, and I suspect it requires a DOS MBR partition table.
[18:14] * Martin[2] (~Martin@host86-165-108-121.range86-165.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:14] <Hydrar> linuxstb: That's what I've done so far :/
[18:14] * anildigital (~anildigit@unaffiliated/anildigital) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:14] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[18:14] <ChubZee> Nahledge, what does 'df -h' show?
[18:14] <linuxstb> Hydrar: And what files do you have in that boot partition. IIRC, you need bootcode.bin, start.elf, fixup.dat and kernel.img
[18:15] <linuxstb> (plus a config.txt if you wish, and then whatever your kernel image is looking for)
[18:15] * lickalott (~lickalott@127.0.0.1.silentkiller.cc) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:16] <Hydrar> I have those files in place, maybe I should try redownloading them again in case I mixed them up, it really seems like the bootloader isn't going anywhere at all
[18:16] * grozah83 (~ja@bsw192.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[18:16] <Nahledge> http://pastebin.com/bbJghVUQ ChubZee
[18:16] * Jef91 (~genesi@bodhilinux/team/Jef91) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:16] * Zencrypter is now known as Encrypt
[18:17] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[18:17] <linuxstb> Nahledge: Do you still have any processes running which may have those video files open?
[18:17] <linuxstb> And how did you remove them? With the "rm" command?
[18:17] <Nahledge> with rm
[18:17] <Nahledge> and no i've rebooted since then
[18:19] * lickalott (~lickalott@127.0.0.1.silentkiller.cc) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:19] * mdp (~mdp@cpe-24-166-64-7.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:20] <ChubZee> Nahledge, try 'sudo df --max-depth=1 -h /' to see which folders are using lots of space
[18:20] * anildigital (~anildigit@unaffiliated/anildigital) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:21] <Patagonicus> Nahledge, ChubZee: that's supposed to be du, not df
[18:21] * apollo (~apollo@unaffiliated/pkuk) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[18:21] <ChubZee> it certainly is
[18:21] <ChubZee> thanks for that :p
[18:22] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqx252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Quit: Uploading hax.....)
[18:22] <Patagonicus> I did check the man page for df, though. Could have been a feature I wasn't aware of. :)
[18:22] * XenGi is now known as XenGi_
[18:22] <Nahledge> 4.0G ./.local
[18:23] * XenGi_ is now known as XenGi
[18:23] * anildigital (~anildigit@unaffiliated/anildigital) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:23] * bbond007 (~ogopogo@adsl-65-9-110-219.mia.bellsouth.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:24] * i42n (~i42n@dslb-178-007-151-038.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: afk.)
[18:24] <ChubZee> i'd start poking thru the large folders to see what files it may have accumulated Nahledge
[18:24] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqx252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:25] * XenGi is now known as XenGi_
[18:27] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqx252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:28] <Nahledge> How do I remove all files in a specific directory without deleting the actual folder itself?
[18:28] <Nahledge> from shell
[18:28] <Patagonicus> rm -rf /path/to/folder/* #that doesn't get dotfiles, though
[18:30] <Patagonicus> shopt -s dotglob #run this before the rm and dotfiles will be removed, too
[18:30] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqx252.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:30] <Nahledge> Problem solved
[18:30] <Nahledge> There as a Trash foldier in ~/.local/share/Trash/files
[18:30] <Nahledge> *was
[18:30] <ChubZee> \o/
[18:31] * cave (~cave@178-190-52-201.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:31] * DexterLB (~angel@95-42-251-60.btc-net.bg) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:32] <scummos_> also rm -Rf <dir>; mkdir <dir> :D
[18:32] <Nahledge> Thanks alot for the syntax help. :)
[18:32] * Nahledge (87003a82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.135.0.58.130) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:32] * codemagician (~anon@ppp-124-122-148-210.revip2.asianet.co.th) Quit (Quit: codemagician)
[18:33] <Patagonicus> scummos_: That may change permissions on the folder, though. And why bother with making a capital R if it does the same as r? ;)
[18:33] <scummos_> actually, I don't know -- I somehow got used to it
[18:33] <scummos_> looks more dangerous
[18:33] * tete_ (~John@46-126-119-242.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:34] * home (~home@unaffiliated/home) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:34] <tete_> hi, i cant get my sound working. it was working (over hdmi) and i added in the modules the correct module. but the sound was somehow tinny (in german: bl?chern, poor sound quality) so i tested a little bit with the options in omxplayer. i guess it was -y or -p and since then no sound is working in omxplayer (wheezy)
[18:35] <tete_> some an idea what could be wrong?
[18:35] * Inspiral (~Inspiral@host-2-101-224-177.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:35] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:36] <tete_> -some+someone
[18:36] * DexterLB (~angel@95-42-251-60.btc-net.bg) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:39] * scummos_ (~sven@p57B1A337.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:40] <Encrypt> tete_, No, sorry :(
[18:40] * satellit (~satellit@bbb72-0-185-15.bendbroadband.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[18:41] * XenGi_ is now known as XenGi
[18:41] * Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:43] <tete_> hm i just noticed an error message in a log file which got created by the player
[18:43] <tete_> ERROR: COMXCoreComponent::DecoderEventHandler OMX.broadcom.audio_mixer - OMX_ErrorPortUnpopulated port 0, cannot parse input stream
[18:43] * Milos (~Milos@pdpc/supporter/student/milos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:43] <tete_> can someone recommend another player for watching movies?
[18:44] <Patagonicus> On my laptop I always use VLC, haven't really tried others.
[18:45] <tete_> i tried vlc too but this kills the rasp because of missing gpu usage or so... i guess the cpu then tries to decode the audio which is not good
[18:45] * Martin[2] (~Martin@host86-165-108-121.range86-165.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[18:46] <Patagonicus> Still installing packages on my rasp, so I don't really know. I'll try xbmc, but that is a bit overkill if you just want a simple video player.
[18:47] * luigy (~luigy@pool-108-50-173-45.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[18:49] * Dynamic (56a82656@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.168.38.86) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:49] * Streakfury (~Streakfur@102.130.125.91.dyn.plus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:49] * alexBr (~alex@dslb-092-072-043-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:50] <Grievre> tete_: mplayer?
[18:50] <akk> Linux needs some sort of easy-to-find "here is a list of video players currently supported." Since they seem to come and go and change names so often.
[18:50] <tete_> the problem is not "any videoplayer for linux", the problem is "a player for linux which can work on raspberry", this is a big difference
[18:50] <Dynamic> Quick question might be stupid if i'm running my pi headless over ssh do i need to leave any ram for the GPU?
[18:50] <tete_> Grievre, did you try that on rasp?
[18:51] <akk> Sure, but if you had a list with short descriptions (noting which ones were relatively lightweight) it would be a great starting point.
[18:51] <Grievre> tete_: no?
[18:51] <tete_> akk, yes...
[18:51] <akk> vs. "gosh, I vaguely remember xine from years and years ago, I wonder if it's still around?"
[18:51] <akk> and "what the heck is that ubuntu player called these days?" (totem, I happened to remember today, but usually I can't)
[18:52] <tete_> Dynamic, i guess not
[18:52] <Grievre> totem has been the GNOME media player for years iirc
[18:52] <Grievre> it uses gstreamer behind the scenes right?
[18:54] <Dynamic> tete_, Thanks
[18:54] * Dynamic (56a82656@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.168.38.86) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:55] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:55] <mgottschlag> actually, I'd say that you still need at least some memory for the "gpu" because it is much more than that
[18:56] <mgottschlag> e.g. the whole reclocking code runs on the GPU
[18:59] * thomashunter (~thomashun@c-98-209-2-63.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: thomashunter)
[19:00] * cave (~cave@178-190-52-201.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:01] <tete_> hm but shouldnt be there some kind of "security" that you can not "destroy" the rasp with such evil configuration?
[19:01] <tete_> i mean... if there is some very important stuff done on the gpu, setting the gpu mem to 0 would more or less brick the rasp
[19:02] <Grievre> the security is called "don't mess with things you don't understand"
[19:02] <Grievre> :x
[19:02] <tete_> :D
[19:03] * Jungle-Boogie (~Jungle-Bo@unaffiliated/jungle-boogie) Quit (Quit: Remember Jungle-Boogie)
[19:04] * cave (~cave@194-166-16-37.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:04] <Hydrar> I thought VLC was supposed to work, but I'm not sure if it currently builds, it has acceleration code for openmax btw
[19:04] <Hydrar> Just not enabled by default and mostly written for android
[19:05] <tete_> "not enabled by default", sounds interesting, i just installed vlc and it was really horrible to use it
[19:05] <tete_> so i purged it ...
[19:05] <Hydrar> tete_: Try building it with --enable-openmax or --with-openmax
[19:06] <tete_> what is openmax? i am new to raspberry...
[19:06] <tete_> firmware to access gpu functions?
[19:06] <Hydrar> Some sorta khronos standardized video/audio acceleration API iirc
[19:06] <Hydrar> Used by android mostly
[19:06] <tete_> ah ok
[19:07] <tete_> i will try now mpg321, if i can play back music, i will compile vlc...
[19:07] <Hydrar> I can't say much for the pi yet since my install so far isn't going very well, lol
[19:08] * drivelights (~drvlights@99-42-98-60.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has left #raspberrypi
[19:08] <Patagonicus> As long as I just set {arm,gpu,core}_freq and don't touch force_turbo, current_limit_override and temp_limit, the warranty will not be voided, right?
[19:09] <tete_> you can also overclock and wont lose it
[19:09] <Patagonicus> Do you mean overvoltage? Setting the freq is overclocking.
[19:09] <tete_> i guess enabling the turbo is the best option, but i did not test it, i run with 1ghz...
[19:09] <tete_> mine runs with 6v overvoltage
[19:09] <tete_> sound is working 1a with mpg123
[19:10] <tete_> so it must be some problem with the omxplayer ... gonna checkout vlc :)
[19:10] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:10] <Patagonicus> Also, what would be good tools to test CPU/RAM stability?
[19:11] <ShiftPlusOne> someone suggested gziping /dev/random (urandom?) into /dev/null
[19:11] <tete_> memtest
[19:11] <tete_> oh wait, memtest was for x86 ^^
[19:12] <Hydrar> tete_: Isn't omxplayer only decoding formats that the hardware decoder actually can
[19:12] <tete_> i guess its enough to just create a for loop, use a little c app which allocates memory, and then free's all of that all time
[19:12] <Hydrar> tete_: Well you have to zero the memory before freeing otherwise VM wont allocate it
[19:12] <tete_> but i never did any coding on arm :)
[19:12] <Patagonicus> Well, gziping doesn't really tell me if the calculations are correct. And allocating/freeing memory doesn't really touch most of the RAM in a current Linux.
[19:12] <tete_> not yet
[19:13] <tete_> Patagonicus, i never did kernel programming, but iirc there are 2 kind of childs, one which uses the memory of the parent, one which does not
[19:13] <tete_> so if you use the later one you can simply fill up all memory
[19:14] <Patagonicus> tete_: Yes, there are both, but you don't need any childs to fill the memory. You just have to write to the allocated memory, as otherwise the kernel will just reserve some space and do nothing with it.
[19:14] <Hydrar> Seed the libc random number generator with a known setting, fill the whole memory with it, restart it and seed it with same number again and make sure it outputs the same sequence?
[19:14] <Patagonicus> And there is memtester, which is supposed to run on ARM
[19:14] * Eliatrope (~speckius@melforce.xtsubasa.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:15] <Hydrar> I haven't done C in ages though, mostly C++ here
[19:15] <tete_> i went away from c when i went away from slackware, now i am forced to code java in my work
[19:16] <echelon> c++ = c with stucts and pointers as classes
[19:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o ShiftPlusOne
[19:16] <echelon> what's the distro got to do with what language you use
[19:17] <tete_> because on some distros its more pain to get a interpreter running than learning another language ;)
[19:17] <tete_> (or compiler...)
[19:17] <echelon> i haven't experienced any issues with slackware
[19:17] <tete_> me neither
[19:18] <echelon> i can run any cumpiler/interpreter
[19:18] <tete_> but i was getting too lazy to use tools like swaret or even download all updates by myself
[19:18] <tete_> but that was on slackware 3.x before they jumped to whatever high value
[19:18] <echelon> hmm
[19:18] <echelon> 14.0
[19:18] <tete_> but i am thinking about turning back to slackware... on rasp :)
[19:18] <echelon> :]
[19:18] <tete_> yes 14 but jumping from 4 to 10 or so is not "nice"
[19:19] * ChanServ sets mode -o ShiftPlusOne
[19:19] <tete_> thats a poor way to battle against other distris ;) its the same firefox does now
[19:19] <echelon> in terms of upgrading, or usability?
[19:19] <echelon> it didn't exactly jump
[19:19] <echelon> in regard to the numbering?
[19:19] <echelon> or the timing of their releases
[19:20] <tete_> numbering
[19:20] <tete_> they did, from 4 to 7... ok its not that high but that was just because other distris had higher numbering lol
[19:20] <echelon> i don't think they care much for what number they're at, they just spend a lot of time testing the stuff in -current for over a year
[19:20] <tete_> that was the time of suse 7
[19:21] <tete_> no thats ok, thats not what i mean, they really jumped from 4.0 to 7.0 without any reason (at least for me) - so my explaination is they wanted to fight against other distris
[19:21] <echelon> depends on how much they've piled on
[19:21] <echelon> oh
[19:21] <tete_> whatever... i still have no sound on omxplayer, please help :)
[19:22] <echelon> got it
[19:22] * rikkib (~Rikki@bencom.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:22] <Patagonicus> Meh, only real stresst test I can find is running Quake 3, which will take at least another hour to compile. Oh, well ???
[19:23] <echelon> i haven't gotten around to even running my rpi as customs rejected the micro usb split Y cable that i was gonna use with my lapdock :/
[19:23] <echelon> have to wait for dx now
[19:23] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[19:24] <echelon> just another example of how gov't and protectionist policies are an impediment to technological development :/
[19:24] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-114-9.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:25] <echelon> import-substitution is something the economically illiterate advocate for
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[19:27] * deffrag (~Dedec@unaffiliated/deffrag) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:27] <Hydrar> tete_: What sound format do you have in the file?
[19:28] <tete_> oeh, it was working before i rebooted, so it should work, but what exactly... give me a second (just rebooted the rasp)
[19:28] <Hydrar> ffmpeg -i file.xxx usually gives it to you, if ffmpeg is installed :X
[19:30] <tete_> Stream #0.0: Video: h264 (High), yuv420p, 1280x528 [PAR 1:1 DAR 80:33], 24 fps, 24 tbr, 1k tbn, 48 tbc (default)
[19:31] <tete_> the sound which is not working: Stream #0.1(ger): Audio: dca (DTS), 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 1536 kb/s (default)
[19:31] <tete_> but it was working
[19:32] <tete_> i can not even play a simple .mp3 file with omxplayer so its some kind of problem with the player - this .mp3 plays fine with mpg123
[19:32] * opieng (~opieng@95.144.13.193) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:32] <tete_> Playing MPEG stream from DJ Dan Room - Im Rausch der liebe.mp3 ...
[19:32] <tete_> MPEG 1.0 layer III, 192 kbit/s, 44100 Hz joint-stereo
[19:32] <tete_> - no problems with mpg123, does not play in omxplayer
[19:32] <Grievre> tete_: try talking to the omxplayer people?
[19:32] <ShiftPlusOne> tete_, do you have -o hdmi ?
[19:33] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[19:33] <tete_> Grievre, yes i will do that
[19:33] <tete_> ShiftPlusOne, ... thanks for that, no i can hear sound from the omxplayer too
[19:34] <ShiftPlusOne> np
[19:36] * stardiviner (~stardivin@122.236.244.61) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:37] <mgottschlag> "<tete_> i mean... if there is some very important stuff done on the gpu, setting the gpu mem to 0 would more or less brick the rasp" - well, you cannot brick it because you always can flash a different SD card image, and actually the firmware probably does not even allow it
[19:37] <mgottschlag> (late, but anyways... ^^)
[19:37] <tete_> video now works with sound too, but ... now i have the problem as in the beginning, its a very bad quality (over hdmi) - any idea how i can "tune" that? when i watch the video on my workstation the sound is 1a
[19:38] <ShiftPlusOne> mgottschlag, wouldn't they have something in the firmware preventing that from happening in the first place. Pretty sure it would take whatever it requires without really worrying about config.txt. Haven't tried though.
[19:38] <mgottschlag> ShiftPlusOne: probably
[19:38] * Hydrar (~hydrar@c80-217-122-171.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:38] * BurtyB (~chris@cpc2-nwrk1-0-0-cust181.12-1.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:38] <tete_> the rasp goes not over 85?C, its locked to about 1ghz... i am pretty sure the rasp is protected against some evil people ;)
[19:39] <mgottschlag> that limit does not apply when you break into the firmware directly and circumvent their thermal control code
[19:39] <mgottschlag> but it takes a lot of effort :D
[19:40] <tete_> i guess i read that on elinux, but... people who do that, know what they do, or at least they should know what they do
[19:48] <GabrialDestruir_> Okay, so finally got my card working last night, however the issue seems to be it doesn't work with OpenElec... at all really.
[19:52] <frikinz> Any knows how to resize the second partition directly from the .img file?
[19:52] * home (~home@unaffiliated/home) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:52] * AndrevS (~andrevs@ip51cd636d.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:53] <Disconnect> usb root + 1ghz oc is insanely smooth (even with encrypted home directory)
[19:53] * Haaninjo (~anders@85.8.55.65) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:53] <frikinz> gparted sees both partitions but I don't understand why it cannot see a valid ext4 superblock so I don't see things like free space.
[19:54] <Disconnect> frikinz: does it show a warning? if you open the info on the part it should tell you why it can't read it
[19:54] <frikinz> Disconnect: hi. what do you use for encrypting?
[19:54] * home (~home@unaffiliated/home) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] <Disconnect> for the home dir its just the standard ubuntu ecryptfs .Private/home overlay
[19:54] * akk (~akkana@71-92-201-115.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com) Quit (Quit: +++)
[19:55] <Disconnect> on sd it sometimes takes more than 60 seconds to mount (esp right after boot, OC at 900 or so) so it times out. with 1ghz I haven't had that happen yet
[19:55] <frikinz> Disconnect: Couldn't find valid filesystem superblock.
[19:55] <Disconnect> what does fsck show? I was getting destroyed filesystems yesterday messing with directvnc - immediate hardlock and superblock destruction, had to throw the card into a laptop and fsck it 3 times or so to get the issues ironed out.
[19:55] <frikinz> I could resize but I think its a bit dangerous without seeing the underlying fs :)
[19:55] <frikinz> fsck is ok
[19:56] <frikinz> 0.4% non contigious
[19:56] <Disconnect> yah don't resize. you can resize the partition and not the filesystem, then run resize2fs manually (with it mounted)
[19:56] <Disconnect> but for that you are better off avoiding gparted, because its gonna try to do everything and may destroy the fs. (or may not be willing to do it at all)
[19:57] <frikinz> yes, I know I have to do it in 2 steps but how much can I resize the partition if I can't see the free space inside? :) I mean, I can mount, run df but..
[19:57] <Disconnect> oh and i'm assuming you mean resize larger. for smaller you should just back up and restore, even if it was happy..
[19:57] <frikinz> shrink unfortunatly
[19:57] <Disconnect> if you are trying to shrink i wouldn't do it even if it was happy. much safer to just back up and restore to the new size
[19:58] <frikinz> I have 1GB space on the usb. the debian in the 2nd partition is now 300MB small so I could have a 350MB img
[19:59] * digilicious (~gene@digilicious.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:59] <frikinz> I think gparted simply can't use disk image
[19:59] <Patagonicus> I didn't really have an problems with resizing ext4. Make sure its not mounted, resize2fs -M /dev/foo, then shrink the partition (but make sure its larger than the fs), then resize2fs /dev/foo
[19:59] * user82 (~user82@unaffiliated/user82) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:59] <Disconnect> yah it can work, but if it doesn't it tends to be dramatic :)
[19:59] <Patagonicus> Oh, gparted. Hmm, try setting up a loop device: losetup /dev/loop0 foo.img
[19:59] <frikinz> Yeah I could shrink "blindly"
[20:00] <Disconnect> -M is minimum-size iirc, and it'll report the new size.
[20:00] <Patagonicus> resize2fs tells you the size, I think its just in 4k blocks, so there is some math involved
[20:00] <Disconnect> or just go with -P
[20:00] <Disconnect> (print minimum size)
[20:00] <user82> hi. i have one question about diriving GPIO with c code. is it possible that the change in the memory can be written without a real chance of the hardware gpio pin. what i mean is: i tested wiritng millions of changes and it worked within the fraction of a second, does it really change the pin that fast?
[20:00] <user82> referring to here: http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals#GPIO_Driving_Example_.28C.29
[20:01] <Disconnect> user82: Haven't tried it on the pi, but when I was messing with msp430s it changed as fast as you could drive it, but to get a 'clean' transition it took time to settle
[20:02] <Disconnect> (so instead of 0,5,0,5V you might get 1,3,1,3,1,3..)
[20:02] <user82> allright thanks Disconnect ..that may be true
[20:02] <user82> i am afraid that my oscilliscope is hopelessly lost with that speed
[20:02] <Disconnect> i was at an embedded design/research company, so we had some epic gear. sucky job tho :/
[20:04] <user82> as far as i can see the code is just messing around in /dev/mem. maybe it does only chance the /dev/mem but the actual pin is far slower
[20:05] <Disconnect> start at the highest speed you trust the scope and see if its clean.. if not, slow it down.. if yes, maybe thats fast enough.
[20:05] <Disconnect> i'm sure there is a datasheet somewhere though
[20:06] <user82> hmh yeah..i could start at the highest speed of the scope to see if that is still clean
[20:06] <user82> soemthing around 20mhz...
[20:07] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[20:08] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[20:08] <user82> one more question appeared for me: does the quake3 in the repositories(raspian) work or do i need a raspberry custom version?
[20:11] * Jungle-Boogie (~Jungle-Bo@unaffiliated/jungle-boogie) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:15] <frikinz> gparted doesn't even allow me to resize the damned partition, even without seeing the fs. arg
[20:16] <frikinz> neither with a loop
[20:16] * coin3d (~coin3d@p4FE74DD2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:16] <frikinz> neither with a loop with offset to the partition I want
[20:17] <frikinz> but fdisk probably can
[20:17] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
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[20:21] <Disconnect> frikinz: just use fdisk/sfdisk. but resize the filesystem first
[20:21] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:22] <frikinz> Disconnect: yes, but I wonder why neither (g)parted can't
[20:22] <frikinz> any idea?
[20:23] <Disconnect> not really. gparted has come a long way in the past few years but sometimes its still simpler to just do it by hand
[20:23] <Disconnect> if it doesn't show an error in the info on the partition there isn't much to be done
[20:24] <Disconnect> stupid question, running as root right?
[20:24] <frikinz> well, dragging the mouse is still easier that using bc and typing cryptic 1 letter commands while sweating that your data are still there :)
[20:24] <frikinz> Disconnect: yes :)
[20:24] <ShiftPlusOne> take a backup and that's the sweating part sorter.
[20:25] <ShiftPlusOne> *sorted
[20:25] <frikinz> yea I still have the img.zip from the website.
[20:26] <frikinz> I haven't even booted the img yet..
[20:26] <ShiftPlusOne> nice... so why are you complicating it?
[20:26] <ShiftPlusOne> why resize the img itself?
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[20:40] <xro> Hi, i just installed my raspberry pi with openelec and XBMC... it works fine.. now i'm trying to plug my USB HDD to the raspbery... but i get (dmesg): [ 188.237185] usb 1-1.3: device descriptor read/8, error -110
[20:40] <xro> [ 188.347220] hub 1-1:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 3
[20:40] <xro> Have you an idea? i googled and i looks like a power supply error, right?
[20:41] * bpuzzled (~user@unaffiliated/bpuzzled) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[20:42] <AndrevS> bad device descriptor. does the HDD work on a different computer?
[20:43] <xro> AndrevS, yes i just format it in fat32...
[20:43] <xro> from another computer i mean
[20:43] * Lord_DeathMatch (~Lord_Deat@dsl-202-72-155-89.wa.westnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[20:43] * atouk (~atouk@ool-457e23d5.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:44] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
[20:45] <AndrevS> Hmm ok. and other USB devices are working fine on the Pi? Are you connecting them directly or through a hub?
[20:46] * Eliatrope (~speckius@melforce.xtsubasa.org) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:46] <xro> AndrevS, i tried a keybors and it works fine... I connect my devices directly to the rpi USB port (no hub)... and only one device
[20:47] <xro> there is no power limitation?
[20:48] <AndrevS> Depends on your revision. Older Pi'
[20:48] <AndrevS> Older Pi's have a power limitation of 160 mA
[20:48] <xro> I just receive it :P howhow can i find my revision?
[20:48] <AndrevS> how much ram does it have?
[20:48] <xro> 256
[20:49] * CelticTurnip (~celt@unaffiliated/celticturnip) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:49] <AndrevS> that's the model B revision 1, which probably has the polyfuse in place
[20:50] <xro> what does it mean?
[20:50] <AndrevS> You can draw max 160 mA from the USB port
[20:50] <xro> ok, now i have no idea about how much power my HDD needs
[20:51] <AndrevS> a powered usb hub
[20:51] <xro> hate things that cannot be fixed with an update or patch :P
[20:52] <AndrevS> I suppose you could just remove the polyfuse and short it connections, but on your own responsibility.
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[20:59] <Disconnect> for $35 its worth doing stuff like that. except the availability is so tough you could be without for quite a while :/
[21:00] <GabrialDestruir_> Went to RaspbMC and now I have a spare Pi that I don't really know what to do with it atm xD
[21:00] <Disconnect> raspbmc is epic :) i have one dedicated to that.
[21:01] <GabrialDestruir_> Well I was originally using OpenElec
[21:01] <GabrialDestruir_> but it refuses to play nicely (at all) with my 32GB card
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[21:04] <axion> prob boils down to advancedsettings.xml
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[21:06] <GabrialDestruir_> No, it won't even boot, firmware issue somehow, and even after updating all the right pieces it still wouldn't boot.
[21:06] <GabrialDestruir_> I gave up and went Raspbmc
[21:06] * satellit (~satellit@bbb72-0-185-15.bendbroadband.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:07] <GabrialDestruir_> and I've already trashed my raspbmc distro xD
[21:08] * Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@206.162.237.238) Quit (Quit: Mike-N-Go)
[21:10] <axion> 1-device (re)distributions are a joke tbh
[21:10] <CelticTurnip> GabrialDestruir_: IMHO both XBian and Raspbmc suffer from the same issue, trying to be too up to date and not caring about stability
[21:11] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[21:11] <CelticTurnip> GabrialDestruir_: I currently use a frankenhack version of Xbian, where it didn't work and I applied firmware patches (etc) by hand
[21:11] * fatpudding (~fatpuddin@178.74.56.81) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[21:12] <CelticTurnip> and this is some old 0.8b1 version, the later versions seemed to break more stuff than they fixed in my experience
[21:12] <CelticTurnip> although a friend has said he's having a good time with the new Xbian alpha 3 image
[21:12] <GabrialDestruir_> There's an issue though....
[21:12] <axion> i use arch linux with a frankenhacked xbmc advancedsettings.xml ripped and modified from OpenElec
[21:12] <GabrialDestruir_> If your firmware updates and the OS isn't updated to use the new firmware then all those bug fixes don't get used
[21:12] <axion> and couldnt be more perfect
[21:13] <CelticTurnip> I think the hint here is "frankenhack" :)
[21:13] <CelticTurnip> axion: my version is perfect too (for what I need)... I don't even consider updating that card anymore :)
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[21:17] <axion> well i just saying to use an OS that has been proven in the past, instead of these franken-hacked single-hardware "distros"
[21:17] <CelticTurnip> Debian is a single hardware distro ;)
[21:18] <axion> nope
[21:18] <CelticTurnip> both XBian and Raspbmc are Raspbian distros, just not very well mainted ones...
[21:18] <CelticTurnip> they aren't doing anything different to what you're doing... other than breaking more than they fix ;)
[21:19] <AndrevS> I'm using ArchLinuxARM on my pi
[21:19] <axion> AndrevS++
[21:19] <CelticTurnip> *maintained
[21:20] <CelticTurnip> and in reality most issues with both would be tracked back to all the changes happening in XBMC... everything will settle down once that comes out of beta
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[21:21] <Grievre> is there anything out there that's like, halfway between no OS at all and using linux?
[21:22] <CelticTurnip> grub ;)
[21:22] <Disconnect> riscos
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[21:22] <CelticTurnip> Grievre: what do you actually mean?
[21:23] <Grievre> I mean something DOS-like... no multitasking, it just gets the processor into a usable state, and then when you launch your code it basically gives you unlimited access to the hardware
[21:23] <GabrialDestruir_> Sounds like he means a seriously cut down version of linux
[21:23] <AndrevS> I have been playing with RISCOS on my Pi as well
[21:23] <axion> i dont have an OS on one of my pi's...i replaced init with a CCL :)
[21:23] <Grievre> with library functions that you can use if you want to or don't use if you don't
[21:23] <axion> just linux kernel
[21:23] <axion> and ccl :)
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[21:24] <CelticTurnip> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/freshers/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/ there you go, build your own OS from the ground up ;)
[21:25] <GabrialDestruir_> I have to admit I like the Raspbmc plugin for the raspbmc, the ability to set various clock stuff directly from interface and just reboot to enable it.
[21:25] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:25] <GabrialDestruir_> As opposed to having to manually type out each command.
[21:25] <CelticTurnip> GabrialDestruir_: that's pretty much every version of XBMC right there :)
[21:26] <Grievre> CelticTurnip: that's not what I asked, I don't need a tutorial for that
[21:26] <GabrialDestruir_> Except OpenElec xD
[21:26] <CelticTurnip> Grievre: I know, hence the winky ;)
[21:26] <GabrialDestruir_> Has no way to fine tune the config.txt stuff
[21:26] <Grievre> CelticTurnip: so... why give me something that isn't what I asked for?
[21:27] <GabrialDestruir_> The irony of that being, OpenElec is the type of OS you'd need that on.
[21:27] <CelticTurnip> GabrialDestruir_: I didn't even bother with OpenELEC... I prefer BSDs to Linux, and the build process for OpenElec requiring a Linux (when I looked at it) put me off
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[21:28] <CelticTurnip> Grievre: well given you haven't actually asked for anything, other than a cut down Linux... you could always grab the minimal images of NetBSD/FreeBSD if that's what you want
[21:28] <AndrevS> Is there already a *BSD ported to Pi?
[21:28] <CelticTurnip> AndrevS: NetBSD and FreeBSD
[21:28] <CelticTurnip> they are very much works in progress though
[21:29] * Eliatrope (~speckius@melforce.xtsubasa.org) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:29] <CelticTurnip> there are images available but the proper way to build them would be to cross compile on another machine running either OS
[21:29] <AndrevS> Okay. cool!
[21:29] <CelticTurnip> FreeBSD seems to be moving ahead a lot faster
[21:29] * Alfihar (~Yuuka@siberios.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[21:29] <CelticTurnip> http://kernelnomicon.org/
[21:30] <GabrialDestruir_> eugh.... I think Raspbmc just voided my warranty -.-
[21:30] <CelticTurnip> GabrialDestruir_: only if you're forcing over clocks
[21:30] <GabrialDestruir_> That or wiki info is filled with a bunch of confused crap
[21:31] <CelticTurnip> Grievre: you could always check out the build scripts for FreeBSD at http://kernelnomicon.org/ and customize your Pi that way (if you would consider using BSD)
[21:31] <GabrialDestruir_> There seems to be a bit of confusion on the wiki then, because some areas are saying "if you use overvoltage you've voided"
[21:31] <GabrialDestruir_> " Warranty will be voided if overvoltage is used."
[21:31] <CelticTurnip> GabrialDestruir_: yeah the documentation for the Pi is dodgy at best :)
[21:32] <Grievre> CelticTurnip: the biggest thing is I don't want multitasking and I don't want virtual memory
[21:32] <Grievre> like both of those things are not necessary for what I want to do
[21:32] <CelticTurnip> Grievre: dunno if it's available but an ARM port of FreeDOS?
[21:32] * Grievre shrug
[21:32] <GabrialDestruir_> So 6 is safe then?
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[21:33] <CelticTurnip> GabrialDestruir_: the defaults are safe, anything else you do is up to you :)
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[21:34] <AndrevS> An ARM port of FreeDOS seems unlikely, as it's specific to x86 real mode
[21:34] <CelticTurnip> Grievre: I know you weren't interested in that tutorial before, but you sure it might not be what you want... read that get the Pi booting, then use assembler for everything else?
[21:34] <CelticTurnip> Grievre: you seem to have very specific requirements, and maybe starting from the groun up is what you need
[21:35] <CelticTurnip> either that or run your app on RISC OS?
[21:36] <Grievre> meh
[21:36] <CelticTurnip> fair enough ;)
[21:36] <GabrialDestruir_> I'm half tempted to go through and try and update as much of the wiki with relevant information as possible...
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[21:40] <Disconnect> that would be a good thing
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[21:45] <nNa> Hello! How could I rename the pi user? Is this wise or should I simply create a new user?
[21:45] <GabrialDestruir_> Yes but there's a lot of deprecated crap or stuff that's just splurged onto the wiki
[21:45] <akk> The username is set in /etc/passwd
[21:45] <ladoga> :??????????:
[21:45] <nNa> User pi probably has some special environment variables set, right? So I guess simply creating a new user wouldn't be enough.
[21:46] <Disconnect> just edit /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow
[21:46] <ladoga> sorry:)
[21:46] <Disconnect> but you can create a new user and assign the necessary groups
[21:46] <Disconnect> that is what i did
[21:46] <nNa> Oh, OK. I thought there is some additional stuff.
[21:46] <Disconnect> its just debian
[21:46] <Disconnect> be sure to disable the pi user (or at least change the password)
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[21:47] <nNa> I'll probably just rename it, less complications.
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[21:51] <GabrialDestruir_> Just use like passwd -l pi
[21:51] <GabrialDestruir_> but new user first
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[21:58] <artag> pi user is in sudoers, that's important
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[22:25] <sraue> <GabrialDestruir_> I have to admit I like the Raspbmc plugin for the raspbmc, the ability to set various clock stuff directly from interface and just reboot to enable it. <--- we dont do this, because overclock settings should be not part of the GUI for daily usage, you can setup your OC settings easily, and its only needed one time...
[22:26] <sraue> so this should be part of the install process
[22:26] <sraue> also openelec dont overclocks per default, so we need no settings there in the gui
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[22:40] <Zencrypter> Hi, I'm back :)
[22:40] <Zencrypter> I'm installing a Printer with CUPS on my Raspberry Pi
[22:41] <Zencrypter> However, I have to take to correct driver for my printer, and the files in the zip package is for x86_64 / i386 architectures...
[22:42] <Zencrypter> DO you know whether I can use any of them or is there something I need to do ?
[22:42] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@d216-232-229-219.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:43] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[22:45] * Armand is now known as Armand|AFK
[22:45] <adb> drivers are 'not for us'
[22:48] <adb> ARM 1176JZF-S 700 MHz processor ;-(
[22:48] <Zencrypter> adb, So, I can't do anything ? :?
[22:49] <Zencrypter> adb, Because in CUPS, I installed the ppd file
[22:49] <Zencrypter> Now, it's asking for : "/usr/lib/cups/filter/rastertosamsungsplc"
[22:49] <AndrevS> What kind of printer is it?
[22:49] <Zencrypter> However, there is no one for ARM
[22:49] <Zencrypter> AndrevS, It's the SAMSUNG ML-1674
[22:50] <Zencrypter> A black only laser printer
[22:50] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) Quit (Excess Flood)
[22:50] <Zencrypter> I have followed these steps for now :
[22:50] <Zencrypter> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11905423&postcount=15
[22:50] <akk> Have you tried using it as a postscript printer? I think samsung lasers used to take postscript.
[22:50] <Zencrypter> Up to point #3 :)
[22:51] <Zencrypter> akk, No, I didn't try...
[22:51] <akk> Might be worth a try -- that might be a much simpler solution *if* it works.
[22:51] <Zencrypter> akk, But I don't know how it's working :(
[22:51] * Gallomimia (~Gallo@d216-232-229-219.bchsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:51] <Zencrypter> akk, I'll see then...
[22:51] <Zencrypter> :)
[22:51] <akk> If you print something and you get what you printed, instead of a lot of postscript source?
[22:51] * Gallomimia_ (~Gallo@d216-232-229-219.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:51] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:52] <Zencrypter> akk, I tried installing the printer with the ML-1660 driver which was suggested by CUPS
[22:52] <akk> When you test, be ready to hit Cancel or Off or whatever, in case it tries to spit out 100 pages of postscript.
[22:52] <Zencrypter> It printed "Use correct driver"
[22:52] <akk> Huh.
[22:52] <akk> That's pretty annoying.
[22:52] <adb> arm
[22:54] <AndrevS> Anyways, I have compiled qemu for the raspberry. Through qemu-i386 it should be able to run i386 binaries, provided you also provide a i386 rootfs. I still haven't tested it yet, but if nothing else works it might be a way
[22:55] <Zencrypter> AndrevS, Do you think I should try to put the rastertosamsung files from the i386 directory ?
[22:56] <Zencrypter> AndrevS, Well...
[22:56] <Zencrypter> AndrevS, http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15653&p=223177
[22:56] * scummos_ (~sven@p57B1A337.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:56] <AndrevS> Well.... the idea is, have some i386 rootfs somewhere, and have a script that launched qemu, chrooted into the i386 rootfs, running the binary.
[22:57] * Leeky_afk is now known as Leeky
[22:58] <Zencrypter> A bit complex :?
[22:58] <Zencrypter> I'll try the solution given here : http://kb.haeringer.org/share-usb-printer-on-the-network-via-cups-and-ipp/#more-171
[22:59] * Simon- (simon@proxima.lp0.eu) Quit (Quit: Simon-)
[22:59] <AndrevS> it is rather complex, indeed. and the proposed "/usr/bin/qemu-i386 -cpu 486 /usr/lib/cups/filter/rastertosamsungspl $@" will probably not work since it above it says it's a dynamically linked, so you need the i386 rootfs
[23:00] <AndrevS> If you're only wanting to use the raspberry as printer server, and print from i386/x86_64 machines, the sharing will work
[23:00] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqt7.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:02] <mervaka> has anyone tried controlling the DAC for purposes other than composite video output?
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[23:05] * zenodub (~zendoub@64.93.116.227) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:06] <Cheery> I'm starting to be frustrated at this. -_-
[23:06] * AeroNotix (~xeno@aqt7.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Quit: Uploading hax.....)
[23:06] <Cheery> why resource handle isn't fine as pixmap?
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[23:07] <Grievre> what are the main differences between the model A and B again?
[23:07] * Leeky is now known as Leeky_afk
[23:08] <Cheery> Grievre: amount of USB ports and existence of LAN
[23:08] <Cheery> why dispmanx element cannot morph into EGLImage?
[23:08] <Cheery> Why everything's made such that it doesn't flex?
[23:09] <Grievre> Cheery: it's the same board right? Just missing components on the A?
[23:09] <Cheery> well less memory too I remember
[23:10] <Cheery> http://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware#Specifications
[23:10] <Cheery> Grievre: there's everything.
[23:11] * thomashunter (~thomashun@c-67-167-132-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: thomashunter)
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[23:16] * complex (~litehode@123.63.189.109.customer.cdi.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] <complex> why should one buy raspberry pi if it is nearly equivalent a computer?
[23:18] <Zencrypter> complex, To make it a web server
[23:18] <Zencrypter> :?
[23:18] * FLHerne (~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:19] <Cheery> to get pissed up with dispmanx and EGL
[23:19] <complex> it was a serious question, i have not understood why people talk about it
[23:19] <Zencrypter> complex, Because I use it to host my website, have my own mailbox, sync my computers...
[23:20] <Zencrypter> complex, You can do everyhting imaginable with a Raspberry Pi :)
[23:20] <Cheery> complex: first let me ask you who you are? The answer to your question depends a lot on context.
[23:20] * dero (~dero@p548B53EF.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:20] * eix (~chatzilla@d133218.upc-d.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:20] <eix> good evening
[23:21] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:21] <eix> I am experiencing a problem with a wifi dongle which was working until recent kernel upgrades
[23:21] <complex> Cherry: im a high school student that knows fairly little about computers
[23:21] * eix recently posted at http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=24247&p=225060
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[23:22] <Cheery> complex: are you an linux user?
[23:22] <complex> im not
[23:22] <eix> does anybody have other advices rather than compilation of the module from Realtek sources? because that's the way I am going..
[23:22] * FLHerne (~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:23] <Cheery> complex: are you interested about operating systems or systems level programming?
[23:23] <complex> i have never really got into it, but yes, im interested in discovering new things
[23:23] * bpuzzled (~user@unaffiliated/bpuzzled) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[23:24] <complex> i only have basic programming experience
[23:24] <Cheery> there's a small subcommunity that concentrates on hardware level programming on raspberry pi.
[23:25] <mervaka> here's a systems level example: i'm putting a rpi on a 1/8 scale model car
[23:25] <mervaka> the rpi outputs 2x PWM channels, and controls throttle and steering
[23:26] <mervaka> controlled by UDP data, be it wifi or GSM (eventually!)
[23:26] <Cheery> mervaka: do you run bare or use linux in it?
[23:26] <mervaka> it's only a small project, so running linux
[23:26] <mervaka> not a serious project
[23:26] <mervaka> well
[23:26] <mervaka> it's a minor uni project
[23:26] <mervaka> haven't a lot of time to invest in it
[23:27] <Cheery> okay so it's not what I meant, but overall is one way to use it.
[23:27] * complex (~litehode@123.63.189.109.customer.cdi.no) Quit ()
[23:27] <mervaka> well
[23:27] <mervaka> i will be writing directly to registers
[23:27] <mervaka> but i need linux for the network stack
[23:27] <mervaka> and communicating with the wifi/gsm peripherals
[23:28] <akk> I thought the rpi only had one (usable) pwm channel -- here I'm fiddling with DACs to control my car. mervaka, are you using the audio out for the second one?
[23:28] <Cheery> he left already.. though it's curious subject.
[23:29] <eix> complex: basic as in BASIC?
[23:29] <mervaka> akk: yeah
[23:30] <mervaka> akk: but i'm passing it through a pair of non inverting amplifiers too
[23:30] <mervaka> with gain of 5
[23:30] <mervaka> brings the signal back up to 5v
[23:30] * Gallomimia_ is now known as Gallomimia
[23:30] <akk> Maybe I'll stick with the DAC. :) I wish they'd put a few more PWMs on the GPIO.
[23:31] <mervaka> you having much success with the DAC?
[23:31] <mervaka> i've got a friend interested in using that.
[23:31] <akk> I got it working with an LED. I haven't actually hooked it to a motor yet.
[23:31] <mervaka> ah ok
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[23:32] <mervaka> does it have PWM though?
[23:32] * opieng (~opieng@95.144.13.163) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:32] <mervaka> i thought it was just a DAC
[23:32] <opieng> any suggestion and advice on how best to power the pi?
[23:32] <mervaka> akk: are you varying the voltage to control the motor?
[23:33] <mervaka> i'd strongly suggest that you don't
[23:33] <akk> Really? Why?
[23:33] * m8 (~mor@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[23:33] <akk> I'd driven my little toy cars with arduinos, and was thinking that the rpi with a little DAC circuit could slip in in place of the arduino.
[23:34] <mervaka> use switching
[23:34] <mervaka> else you have to waste power equivalent to the voltage not used * the current the motor is pulling
[23:35] <mervaka> ie, (Vsupply-Vmotor)*Imotor
[23:35] <mervaka> that power has to be burned off
[23:35] <mervaka> as heat
[23:36] <opieng> are any of the original pi developers here?
[23:36] <mervaka> switching doesn't incur those losses
[23:36] <mervaka> it's either at Vsupply to 0
[23:36] <mervaka> or 0*
[23:36] * eix (~chatzilla@d133218.upc-d.chello.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[23:37] <mervaka> so no power is wasted
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[23:37] <SpeedEvil> ##electronics may be useful also
[23:38] <mervaka> thanks SpeedEvil, been meaning to join a more relevant channel :P
[23:38] <akk> mervaka: Is that even with basic DC motors? I didn't know there was any way to drive them besides varying voltage.
[23:39] <mervaka> akk: the motor has interia, it uses that to regulate itself
[23:39] * piney0 (~piney@pool-173-54-83-57.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[23:39] <mervaka> inertia*
[23:39] <mervaka> sorry my typing's awful
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[23:40] <akk> mervaka: Would it work with something like a SN754410 h-bridge chip? That's what I'm using now. I'd just switch full voltage on and off rapidly?
[23:40] <mervaka> yeah, that's exactly the idea
[23:40] <mervaka> the H bridge allows for rail to rail operation in both directions
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[23:41] <akk> Are there drivers on the pi that'll take care of that? Or do I have to fork a process (or similar) to handle all the on/off?
[23:41] <mervaka> drivers aren't what you're after
[23:41] <mervaka> you need to take a look at the PWM peripheral
[23:41] <akk> peripheral?
[23:41] <mervaka> yeah
[23:42] <mervaka> built into the raspi is a little PWM peripheral
[23:42] <mervaka> basically a counter and a comparator
[23:43] <mervaka> you give the counter a number to count up to, and a speed at which to count, and then give the comparator a number to compare the counter to
[23:43] * nNa (bce6afea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.230.175.234) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:43] <mervaka> so the counter counts up
[23:43] <mervaka> and the comparator output starts at 0
[23:43] <mervaka> when the counter passes the comparator's number, the comparator's output flips to a 1
[23:44] <nNa> How can I update only specific packages? apt-get dist-upgrade wants to update libmikmod2, which also pulls a bunch of other packages (including pulseaudio, which I don't need/want).
[23:44] <akk> But if I need to do that on two channels, I'd have to do it on the microphone jack with an amp like you're doing?
[23:44] <mervaka> and you change the comparator's number to change the duty cycle
[23:44] <mervaka> yeah
[23:45] <mervaka> i've had to put the PWM peripherals into MS mode, meaning it works with a mark and a space time, rather than whatever the other mode does for audio output
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[23:45] <mervaka> then changed the counter so that it resets 50 times a second, ie 50Hz for servos
[23:45] <frikinz> nNa: you could use aptitude, go to the package, hit +
[23:46] <frikinz> nNa: go to the package with / to search
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[23:46] <mervaka> and then write to the comparator to change servo position
[23:46] <mervaka> alternatively you could just buy a usb servo controller :P
[23:46] <nNa> frikinz: OK, thanks. I thought there's a command line equivalent.
[23:46] * piney0 (~piney@pool-173-54-83-57.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:47] <nNa> Haven't really used Debians package manager that much...
[23:47] <frikinz> nNa: aptitude as a TUI is very powerfull. apt-get can be a bit tricky sometimes, I'd suggest moving to aptitude
[23:47] <akk> nNa: I'm pretty sure apt-get install packagename will update the package if it's already installed but not the latest.
[23:47] <akk> I went back to apt-get instead of aptitude because I couldn't get aptitude to ignore suggests and recommends, but that's easy with apt-get.
[23:48] <frikinz> akk: there should be an option for this. I just got hit by this, it pulled again a package I don't want.
[23:48] <frikinz> aptitude install foo should install the latest version iirc
[23:48] <akk> mervaka: Is there a page documenting this PWM peripheral stuff? Sounds like definitely something I'd like to experiment with.
[23:48] <mervaka> akk: look at WiringPi
[23:49] * Kripton is now known as kripton
[23:49] <mervaka> I'm yet to fully understand it myself
[23:49] <nNa> OK, I'll try the apt-get way as soon as the updates complete.
[23:49] <akk> Which brings up a related question: do the WiringPi python bindings handle PWM now? They didn't last time I looked.
[23:49] * Haaninjo (~anders@85.8.55.65) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[23:50] <frikinz> nNa: if you neither want suggest nor recommend, add these two lines to /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99-mine:
[23:51] <frikinz> APT::Install-Recommends "0";
[23:51] <frikinz> APT::Install-Suggests "0";
[23:51] <akk> You can also use "false" instead of "0".
[23:51] <akk> (at least with apt-get ... maybe that's why it never worked for aptitude?)
[23:52] * NullMoogleCable (NullMoogle@cpe-66-66-112-9.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:52] <akk> I put it in /etc/apt/apt.conf but putting it in apt.conf.d/ works too.
[23:53] <mervaka> akk: grow some balls and write in C :P
[23:53] * arcanescu (925706ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.87.6.239) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:54] <frikinz> akk: yes, it's just less messy
[23:54] <akk> mervaka: I like C just fine, but it sure is nice to be able to write simple things in Python.
[23:54] <frikinz> split conf vs one huge file.. ymmv
[23:55] <akk> Those two lines are the only thing I ever have in /etc/apt/apt.conf, so it's not exactly a huge file. :)
[23:55] <tete_> is someone running the rasp as server? i found out that the cpu has a "java" flag set. does that mean it has special "power" for java applications like a tomcat?
[23:55] <akk> mervaka: Also, I like being able to share my code with friends who aren't as comfortable in C.
[23:56] * CelticTurnip (~celt@unaffiliated/celticturnip) Quit (Quit: 'Two of the most famous products of Berkeley are LSD and Unix. I don't think that this is a coincidence.' - The UNIX-HATERS Handbook.)

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