#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2013-02-28

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <tdy_> well there is a warning about not doing usb -> usb connections
[0:00] <tdy_> and so i haven't tried it to confirm/deny whether it results in damage
[0:03] * CRNorris (~colin@host-78-149-220-191.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Ragequit)
[0:05] <Twist-> Theone I'd be worried about is backpowering an arduino with another device on the second onboard usb port
[0:05] * Dyskette (~freja@cpc8-warw15-2-0-cust22.3-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] <Twist-> er
[0:06] <Twist-> backpowering a Pi
[0:07] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[0:07] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@149.241.236.236) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:10] * audiodef (~quassel@pool-71-191-172-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:11] * Jevermeister (~Jevermeis@unaffiliated/jever) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:11] * azeam is now known as azeam_afk
[0:12] * [[johnonymous]] (~johnonym@96-37-61-208.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[0:12] * fatpudding (~fatpuddin@82.178.9.46.customer.cdi.no) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:14] * _ember (~ember@89-70-167-63.dynamic.chello.pl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:19] * zleap (~zleap@dsl-217-155-46-222.zen.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[0:20] * KillmeSoftly (~MartialLa@c-68-42-24-91.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:22] <KillmeSoftly> hi i dont know if i should ask this in here or raspbian...I am new to raspberry pi, GPIO and python...I made a simple program that blinks an LED on and off, problem is the program is just a while loop so it is infinite...how do i terminate the python program?
[0:22] <tdy_> hit ctrl-c
[0:23] <tdy_> alternatively, change the "while True:" to a finite condition
[0:23] <KillmeSoftly> thank you
[0:24] <KillmeSoftly> yes i know that i just didn't put it in
[0:24] * Firehopper yays and has a 16 more io ports :)
[0:24] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:24] <Firehopper> got a k002 slice of pi using a MCP23017 to give me those ports :)
[0:25] <KillmeSoftly> i code in java and python is very close obviously but know basically nothing about GPIO or the raspberry pi so I am excited to get something working. thanks guys
[0:25] * KillmeSoftly (~MartialLa@c-68-42-24-91.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:26] <tdy_> python very close to java.. news to me
[0:26] <DDave> *loads the shotgun*
[0:26] <DDave> Well you could say, kinda
[0:27] <mgottschlag> both are programming languages
[0:27] <mgottschlag> counts as close to me :)
[0:27] * Yachtsman (~Yachtsman@173-115-221-188.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: gogo)
[0:29] <DDave> both are OO
[0:29] <chod> Firehopper: what u going to connect ?
[0:29] <DDave> close? :D
[0:30] <Firehopper> chod, dont know
[0:30] <chod> :D
[0:30] <Firehopper> not yet anyway..
[0:30] <Firehopper> I just have to figure out how to command the i2c thingy
[0:30] <tdy_> dynamic vs static typing makes them.. not close in my book
[0:30] <tdy_> but meh
[0:31] <Firehopper> its detecting the chip at address 20
[0:31] <Firehopper> so I know that works
[0:31] <chod> nod
[0:31] * Caleb (~Caleb@archlinux/op/caleb) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] <chod> there was a demo to show extra gpio ports
[0:31] <tdy_> are you using smbus module?
[0:32] <chod> i have simple leds on the gpio pins
[0:32] <chod> also an extra 32bit i think io board that i have to figure like yourself i guess
[0:32] <Firehopper> http://openmicros.org/index.php/articles/94-ciseco-product-documentation/raspberry-pi/223-slice-of-pio < this is what I'm using tdy
[0:33] * znode (~znode@59.38.9.11) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] <tdy_> the tutorial just stops? no next page?
[0:33] <chod> erm cant launch urls
[0:33] <chod> not from this session
[0:34] <tdy_> it's weird that they just stop there after detecting it
[0:34] <tdy_> anyway i suggest using the smbus module
[0:34] <chod> a tmux session on the pi ssh ing into another linux box for irssi
[0:34] <chod> unless some knows how to remote launch a url
[0:34] <tdy_> create a smbus.SMBus(0) object
[0:35] <tdy_> and then you can mess with the registers for 0x20
[0:36] <Firehopper> tdy, dont know how to do that :>
[0:36] <tdy_> the location of the irc session doesn't matter for the url
[0:36] <tdy_> you just need a terminal that has url hints
[0:37] * shurizzle (~shura@unaffiliated/shurizzle) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:37] <chod> how do i launch it
[0:38] <chod> i guess there is a script for irssi
[0:38] <tdy_> you just click the link
[0:38] <tdy_> i don't think it has anything to do with irssi.. just configure it in your terminal emulator
[0:38] * shurizzle (~shura@unaffiliated/shurizzle) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] <chod> with a desktop yes
[0:38] * reverendp (~reverendp@pool-96-255-248-36.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] <chod> this has no desktop
[0:39] <chod> desktop on the pi is dog slow
[0:39] <tdy_> what does a desktop have to do with url hints?
[0:39] <chod> how do you click a url with no mouse
[0:40] * columbo (~pi@24-205-50-178.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] <tdy_> it's called url hints
[0:40] <tdy_> you hit a keystroke, the urls get numbered, you hit the corresponding number
[0:40] <chod> oh ok, a script?
[0:40] <tdy_> well, i dunno.. in my urxvt, it's just compiled in
[0:40] <odin_> try a finger (if no mouse), then a nose, otherwise telepathy (if no touchscreen)
[0:40] <columbo> can i use "su root" i installed some stuff into /root and i'd like to delete it
[0:41] <columbo> i tried sudo rm
[0:42] <columbo> oh you know what i remember
[0:42] <columbo> i need to change the root pw
[0:42] <columbo> heh i haven't used linux in a while
[0:42] <tdy_> Firehopper: something like this http://raspberrypi.io/2012/08/07/mma7455-accelerometer-on-raspbian/
[0:43] <tdy_> (skip the module stuff)
[0:43] <odin_> columbo, are you still root? command "id" will tell you your ID
[0:43] <columbo> i got it odin_ thanks
[0:44] <odin_> columbo, you can "cd /root" then "ls -l" then "rm -i file1 file2.txt file3.tar.gz"
[0:44] <Firehopper> found a python script for controlling it :)
[0:44] <odin_> columbo, if you are already "root" user you can use "passwd root" to set root password
[0:45] <columbo> i just did sudo passwd to change the root password so i can su root
[0:45] * egrouse (~newb@unaffiliated/egrouse) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[0:46] <columbo> its probably a bad idea to even set root password
[0:47] * thomashunter (~thomashun@208-44-138-156.dia.static.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: zZz)
[0:47] <tdy_> if "sudo rm" didn't work, something doesn't seem right anyway
[0:48] <columbo> yeah sudo rm should have worked
[0:49] <columbo> i'll just reflash the img once i've got a decent install script set up
[0:49] <Firehopper> http://nathan.chantrell.net/20120602/raspberry-pi-io-expander-board/ < tdy
[0:50] <columbo> man im just sick of perl taking hours to install modules
[0:51] <columbo> im gonna go check out #perl see if they've got some tips
[0:51] <tdy_> i hadn't heard of that expansion board
[0:53] * `Winslow (~Winslow@unaffiliated/winslow/x-6891340) Quit (Excess Flood)
[0:53] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:54] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-249-147.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[0:59] <ahhughes> If I want to use a pi as a NAS, Im not going to get anything quicker than USB2.0 speeds am I?
[1:00] <TAFB_afk> correct. Even using an SSD I didn't get good speeds over USB 2.0
[1:00] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[1:00] * `Winslow (~Winslow@unaffiliated/winslow/x-6891340) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:00] <TAFB_afk> For the best NAS single drive solution look for a seagate goflex home :) http://tafb.yi.org
[1:00] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-221-174.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:03] <TAFB_afk> gigabit ethernet, SATA2, etc :)
[1:03] * chupacabra (~michael@cpe-24-28-86-169.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] * `Winslow (~Winslow@unaffiliated/winslow/x-6891340) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] <knoppies> ahhughes, the biggest issue with USB 2.0 is that it is only half-duplex. Although you should still be able to get about 20MB/s from it. The 10/100 Ethernet adapter will struggle to give you more than 10MB/s file transfer speeds.
[1:06] <knoppies> ahhughes, you are much better off with something like an IntelDN2800MT all-in-one or an actual NAS product.
[1:06] * mattwj2002 (~Matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:06] <mattwj2002> hi guys
[1:06] * SirSkitzo (~SirSkitzo@cpe-72-182-15-220.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:07] <ahhughes> cheers!
[1:07] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable119.94-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] * rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:07] <mattwj2002> cheers ahhughes :D
[1:08] <mattwj2002> ahhughes: you have a pi?
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[1:10] <ahhughes> not yet
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[1:30] * MichaelC is now known as MichaelC|Sleep
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[1:33] <a5m0> does anyone know of a lcd pixel unsticker program that will run on the pi?
[1:34] <jar_> couldn't you just run a program that changes full screen color on a loop (and quickly)?
[1:35] * mattwj2002 (~Matt@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has left #raspberrypi
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[1:43] <a5m0> jar_: definitely, i was just hoping someone else already had :D
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[2:44] <jar_> so what irc client do you all use on your pi?
[2:45] <columbo> irssi
[2:45] <columbo> latest is available through apt-get
[2:45] <PhotoJim> irssi is great on the Pi, if you don't mind a shell-based client.
[2:46] <jar_> i'll have to give it a try, thanks
[2:46] <PhotoJim> I run irssi on a SheevaPlug, but use it as my primary IRC client.
[2:47] <columbo> im actually using it through putty and screen on my win8 machine
[2:48] <columbo> currently i'm installing twirssi but these perl modules are taking forever
[2:48] <PhotoJim> I'm using it through a shell on my laptop, sshed to my SheevaPlug, using tmux instead of GNU screen. but tmux does similar things.
[2:51] * flufmnstr (~rawr@71-83-131-140.dhcp.snbr.ca.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:54] <tdy_> weechat
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[3:00] <a5m0> is there a quassel build for pi?
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[3:03] * Yen (~Yen@ip-81-11-242-50.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[3:03] <edman007> Hi, so I'm designing/building an IO expansion board while I wait for my raspberry pi to arrive (backordered :( ).... anyways, is there more than one SPI interface? I only see one on the P1 pinouts that I see online
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[3:15] <patrickMelo> HexChat: 2.9.4 ** OS: Linux 3.7.9-2-ARCH x86_64 ** Distro: ArchLinux ** CPU: 2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6420 @ 2.13GHz (GenuieIIntel) @ 1.60GHz ** RAM: Physical: 5.8GB, 80.6% free ** Disk: Total: 450.9GB, 38.1% free ** VGA: NVIDIA Corporation G84 [GeForce 8600 GTS] ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel ** Ethernet: Atheros Communications Inc. AR8132 Fast Ethernet ** Uptime: 2h 14m 33s **
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[3:50] <RiXtEr> Where is some good documentation on how the RPi python module works ?
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[3:54] <phorce> Hello is anyone active?
[4:00] <Scriven> edman007, AFAIK only 1 spi.
[4:00] * des2 (~nobody@pool-71-190-44-103.nycmny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:00] <Scriven> phorce, define active, this is IRC after all, conversations tend to take lots of time,with spaces in between.
[4:01] <phorce> :Scriven Hey, do you know much about circuits on the pi?
[4:01] <Scriven> nope, sorry. Am learning the pi stuff myself.
[4:02] <Scriven> I'm OK building pc's and stuff, but don't know much about the nuts-and-bolts, if you know what I mean.
[4:02] <Scriven> I did make an LED flash w/ gpio tho. lol!
[4:02] * sixseven (~tony@202.137.244.157) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:02] <phorce> :Scriven Pretty good :)
[4:02] <Scriven> But feel free to ask, others may be reading, or may read in the future, that can answer your question.
[4:02] <phorce> i'm trying to connect 6 up
[4:03] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:03] <Scriven> phorce, Well, the simplest way is one-per-gpio, with resistors inbetween each.
[4:03] <Scriven> basically the adafruit demo x 6.
[4:03] <sixseven> Hi all. I'm a newbie in this channel, and a not-so-newbie on the RP forums.
[4:03] <phorce> Yeahh, I've got them all hooked up
[4:03] <phorce> but, i have 2 soldiered bread boards and am connecting 1 set
[4:04] <phorce> to the third pin in (the power from the pi to the board)
[4:04] <phorce> but don't know which GPIO pin to connect the second one up to
[4:04] <Scriven> Doesn't matter AFAIK, that's up to you.
[4:05] <Scriven> pin 3 isn't power BTW.
[4:05] <Scriven> http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
[4:05] <Scriven> pin 2 is 4V, pin 1 is 3.3V
[4:05] <phorce> i'm putting it into the group power
[4:05] <phorce> pin"
[4:05] <phorce> ground"
[4:05] * sixseven (~tony@202.137.244.157) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:06] <Scriven> ground is pin 6... 3rd down on that side tho, if that's what you meant.
[4:06] <NullMoogleCable> has anyone found a cheep lcd that works dirrectly with the pi?
[4:06] * sixseven (~sixseven@202.137.244.157) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:06] <Scriven> NullMoogleCable, I've ordered a 4.3 from ebay that should be an RCA direct plug-in, but the mailman hasn't delivered it yet so I can't confirm.
[4:06] <phorce> yeah, so then I need to command the pi to do the second ground?
[4:06] <phorce> so like, gpio mode 0 0 out
[4:07] <Scriven> nope, not ground, the gpio pin.
[4:07] <NullMoogleCable> i have a tiny screen thats ntsc
[4:07] * halfhalo (halfhalo@nasadmin/webteam/halfhalo) Quit (Excess Flood)
[4:07] <Scriven> what I did was: pin 6 (gnd) to resistor to LED to pin 12.
[4:07] <Scriven> pin 12 == gpio 18
[4:07] <NullMoogleCable> doesnt the pi have onboard lcd support?
[4:08] <Scriven> NullMoogleCable, theoretically, but they haven't released one officially, and I've never seen a confirmed outside module that works.
[4:08] <Scriven> phorce, then used the adafruit demo python to turn it on/off (or gpio command-line, both work).
[4:08] <phorce> :Scriven Do you have the url to hand?
[4:08] <phorce> I'll take a look
[4:09] <Scriven> not on hand, but gimme a sec I can dig it up.
[4:09] <phorce> Thanks man
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[4:11] <Scriven> phorce, vancouver hackspace linked to this: http://learn.adafruit.com/webide/overview
[4:11] <Scriven> (hackspace was where I learned it a few weeks ago)
[4:11] <NullMoogleCable> what about something simple like spi lcd?
[4:11] <NullMoogleCable> http://www.ebay.com/itm/150720543925?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[4:12] * debenham (~cjd@122.150.16.9) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:12] <Scriven> the webide isn't strictly necessary, but as it also installs the stuff locally and provides headless access to the running pi, it's not a bad thing either.
[4:12] <phorce> that's the IDE man?
[4:12] <Scriven> basically it's wiringpi python code, a ribbon cable, a resistor and an led (and your pi of course).
[4:12] <Scriven> NullMoogleCable, sorry, dunno enoughg about spi.
[4:13] <Scriven> Integrated(?) Development Environment.
[4:13] <Scriven> basically the stuff you need to program w/ python and the pi, all wrapped up together and presented as a website.
[4:14] <phorce> got it
[4:14] <phorce> thanks
[4:14] <Scriven> AH, here's what we followed: http://www.abluestar.com/blog/raspberry-pi-and-the-gpio-pins/
[4:14] <phorce> i'll have a play about with this!
[4:14] <Scriven> at least most of it. ;)
[4:14] <Scriven> I've hacked the script a bit since then, but I can pastebin it if you like.
[4:15] <phorce> Yeah, that would be great - If you don't mind?
[4:15] <Scriven> I added morse code support and basic user interaction (asks you various questions on how to blink b4 it blinks).
[4:15] <Scriven> yeah, 1 sec.
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[4:15] <ReggieUK> hi NullMoogleCable :)
[4:15] <NullMoogleCable> hi
[4:16] * nid0 (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) Quit ()
[4:16] <ReggieUK> http://hackaday.com/2012/11/26/tiny-mame-cabinet-built-from-raspberry-pi/
[4:16] <ReggieUK> you might want to look at that for driving an lcd panel directly with a pi
[4:17] <ReggieUK> sprite_tm did a neat little circuit for that iirc
[4:17] <Scriven> tres cool thanks ReggieUK ! :)
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[4:19] <Scriven> phorce, http://pastebin.com/DzAZPEne
[4:19] <ReggieUK> in fact, I don't think it's even much of a circuit on that one, looks like he's driving it directly, 8-bits
[4:19] <Scriven> hopefully that's not terrible-looking code. lol
[4:20] <phorce> :Scriven Nah, that's great, thanks man :) the "GPIO.setup(ledPin, GPIO.OUT )" will that give power to all of the pins on the board?
[4:20] <ReggieUK> http://spritesmods.com/?art=spitft&page=1
[4:20] * Fleck (~fleck@unaffiliated/fleck) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:21] <ReggieUK> there's a little shift-register based 16bit lcd circuit on that hack
[4:21] * Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:22] <Scriven> phorce, nope, that line 'turns on' the given ledPin #.
[4:22] <Scriven> that's not technically correct, but I'm not sure how else to explain it as it's about the limit of my understanding too. lol
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[4:22] <phorce> :Scriven So that is basically the power going from the pi to the board, correct?
[4:23] <Scriven> the power itself is controlled from this line: GPIO.output(ledPin, GPIO.HIGH )
[4:23] <ReggieUK> does it?
[4:23] <Scriven> HIGH is on, LOW is off (low's 2 lines after that)
[4:23] <ReggieUK> doesn't look like it turns a led on
[4:23] <Scriven> the GPIO.HIGH turns the LED on.
[4:24] <phorce> Yes, but, the board still needs to be powered to the pi
[4:24] <Scriven> "set gpio pin #ledPin to high state" basically.
[4:24] <Scriven> no. only 2 pins used, as I said.
[4:24] <ReggieUK> Oh whoops, sorry, my bad, I thought you mean the one iwth GPIO.OUT in it
[4:24] <Scriven> ReggieUK, nope, that's just the 'activate this pin' line.
[4:24] <ReggieUK> indeed
[4:24] <Scriven> 'prepare this pin for input' or something.
[4:24] <Scriven> as 'activate' implies power too.
[4:24] <phorce> gotcha! right brb
[4:24] <phorce> thanks man
[4:25] <Scriven> the power for the gpio pins is provided by the pi IIRC, not from the gpio's Power pins.
[4:25] <Scriven> IIRC the gpio is 3.3V, but I haven't put a meter to it so don't quote me
[4:25] * Scriven wonders if he should just get his meter and test. lol
[4:25] <Scriven> It's a deceptively simple circuit, really. I was surprised.
[4:26] <Scriven> GND(pin6) -> resistor -> LED -> GPIO18 (pin12)
[4:26] <Scriven> and that's it.
[4:26] <Scriven> no separate power. I've literally got the resistor and led hand-twisted together and shoved into the correct pins on a ribbon cable plugged into the rpi.
[4:27] * Fleck (~fleck@unaffiliated/fleck) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:28] <Scriven> lines 106-108 control the on-off of the LED (in this case), with the time.sleep as the duration to stay on.
[4:28] <Scriven> Should I youtube a video of the flashy blue LED on my battery-powered pi? lol
[4:29] <Scriven> well, to make it battery powered I'd have to restart it, as it's setup on the 'bench' to a power supply right now, so I won't do that part. ;)
[4:29] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[4:30] <UnaClocker> heh, my Pi is battery powered..
[4:30] * alexhairyman claps for UnaClocker
[4:30] <UnaClocker> Runs off the battery in my Lapdock I have it plugged into.. :) 8 1/2 hours of battery life.
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[4:30] <UnaClocker> alexhairyman: Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night. ;)
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[4:31] <Scriven> UnaClocker, mine runs off an RC Car Voltage Regulator. ;)
[4:31] <alexhairyman> UnaClocker, what kind of battery is it, specs PLZ!
[4:31] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:31] <Scriven> I can run up to 24V through mine IIRC. lol
[4:31] <UnaClocker> alexhairyman: http://liliputing.com/2012/06/turn-a-raspberry-pi-into-laptop-with-a-70-motorola-lapdock.html
[4:32] <Scriven> Castle Creations "CC BEC", if anyone else wants to use one. Should get the castle creations usb thingie, then you can configure the voltage and other settings (windows only tho)
[4:33] <Scriven> hacked a micro-usb and wired it into a 3-pin servo connector, works like a charm. Never tested battery life yet tho.
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[4:42] <TAFB_afk> I did some load tests from this battery pack, runs my cell phone plus the Pi for 19 hours and it was at 25%. Expensive batteries so I wasn't sure how low I wanted to run them, and if the box has low voltage/deep discharge protection.
[4:42] <TAFB_afk> http://ecuflashking.com/2012-02-22-CottonPickers_solar_panel_folder/2012-02-22-battery_box_2amp_runtime_test_large.jpg
[4:42] <UnaClocker> TAFB: Long time no see.. :)
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[4:43] <TAFB_afk> yeah, better crazy busy :(
[4:43] <TAFB_afk> you any good with flexget/transmission?
[4:43] <UnaClocker> I scored a brand new Pogoplug for $15 shipped last week..
[4:43] <UnaClocker> I use transmission on my plug..
[4:43] <TAFB_afk> dirty. love pogoplugs :) I'm still rockin my SGFH :) http://tafb.yi.org
[4:43] <UnaClocker> Haven't been able to get the latest versions to compile, for some reason, though..
[4:44] <TAFB_afk> UnaClocker: ever dumped torrents into Transmission from a RSS feed?
[4:44] <UnaClocker> Nope
[4:44] <TAFB_afk> :(
[4:44] <TAFB_afk> I'm trying to get flexget to do it, without success
[4:44] <UnaClocker> I've never dealt with RSS at all, really..
[4:45] <Scriven> I've used RSS, but only w/ rtorrent/rutorrent combination, and not for a while.
[4:45] <TAFB_afk> me neither! never knew what it was all about :) Till i got a sweet video torrent sharing site. They run a RSS feed, so I can put the feed in uTorrent, then just tag it with "MotoGP" and every new motogp video that gets posted, my utorrent automatically downloads :)
[4:45] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:46] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, that's a beautiful case BTW. how much was that baby?
[4:46] <TAFB_afk> twice the price of the Pi ;)
[4:46] <UnaClocker> hehe, hella expensive.
[4:46] <Scriven> Should I take some pi-porn pictures of my bit 6600mah lipo running my pi? lol
[4:46] <UnaClocker> More than I paid for my Lapdock.
[4:46] <TAFB_afk> lol
[4:46] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: always in for battery pack pics, the more dangerous the better :)
[4:46] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, got a url for it, it may be worth spending that for one of my projects. ;)
[4:47] <TAFB_afk> My pack is running 4 x 3400mah Panasonic 18650's
[4:47] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, hopefully not at all dangerous, lol!
[4:47] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: for sure, one moment :)
[4:47] <UnaClocker> Even at .5c, a 6600mAh pack would melt the Pi.
[4:48] <Scriven> UnaClocker, hence the Voltage regulator I also mentioned. ;)
[4:48] * SpeedEvil should take some pics of his 220000mAh pack
[4:48] <Scriven> http://www.castlecreations.com/products/ccbec.html
[4:48] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: www.ebay.com/itm/110995929762
[4:48] <Scriven> SpeedEvil, yes you should!
[4:49] <SpeedEvil> 2*110ah lead acid 12v
[4:49] <TAFB_afk> be ware if imitations that don't have the three heatsink posts. makes your Pi run crazy cool :)
[4:49] <SpeedEvil> about a months worth
[4:49] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, that's got heat sinks built in???
[4:49] <TAFB_afk> my friend just bought a truck with some castle creations goodies in it. thing is retarded fast :)
[4:50] <Scriven> SpeedEvil, Awesome!
[4:50] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, yeah, my truck isn't made for fast, it's made for go f!ing anywhere. ;)
[4:50] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: yep, three heatsink posts, sucks ALL of the heat out of the Pi! Comes with heat transfer goo too.
[4:50] <Scriven> ok that's just awesome.
[4:50] <UnaClocker> I have an 8ah SLA (lead acid) battery setup as a battery backup for my sheevaplug..
[4:50] <SpeedEvil> Scriven: I got pissed off at power cuts
[4:50] <Scriven> brings down the $90 (shipping included to my location) to something reasonable...
[4:51] <TAFB_afk> Here's a crappy pic of the heatsink posts: http://piholder.com/Raspberry_Pi_Case/Raspberry_pi_case_assembley_02.jpg
[4:51] <SpeedEvil> Scriven: so I can now have my electric blanket and other 'normal' loads for a day
[4:51] <PKodon> Is there a way to add audio input to the Pi?
[4:51] <TAFB_afk> They cool the CPU/GPU, the LAN chip and the voltage regulator :)
[4:51] <SpeedEvil> PKodon: USB
[4:51] <UnaClocker> PKodon: Yes, the cheap $2 USB audio adapters on eBay.
[4:51] <UnaClocker> Or simply, a USB microphone..
[4:52] <PKodon> I was thinking it would be cool to use the Pi for psk31 (Ham Radio)
[4:52] <Scriven> PKodon, usb only.
[4:52] <SpeedEvil> cheap adaptors generally have 8 or/10 bit input
[4:52] <Scriven> PKodon, do you have a ham-radio SDR??
[4:52] <TAFB_afk> UnaClocker: did you see my battery backup for my SGFH? http://ecuflashking.com/2012-12-22-Seagate_GoFlex_Home_arch_linux_hack/2012-12-23-Seagate_GoFlex_Home_hacked_with_Arch_Linux_Sandisk_SSD.jpg
[4:52] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, my truck: http://s1051.beta.photobucket.com/user/Scurvy42/library/Axial%20Wraith
[4:52] <PKodon> Scriven: SDR?
[4:52] <Scriven> software-defined radio.
[4:52] <UnaClocker> TAFB_afk: Yup.
[4:52] <PKodon> No, sorry.
[4:52] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:53] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: nice :) I used to have a HPI Savage .25 nitro :)
[4:53] <PKodon> I'd loe to get one, though.
[4:53] <Scriven> nitro's just too noisy for me, lol
[4:53] <PKodon> *love
[4:53] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: I had custom open pipes on mine, no mufflers, was retarded loud :)
[4:53] <Scriven> PKodon, yeah me too, want to have all-band reception on my portable-pi-project.
[4:53] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, EVIL!
[4:53] <Scriven> lol
[4:54] <PKodon> Scriven: Is there an SDR that plugs into USB, or are they all cards?
[4:54] * elgrecoFL (Jezzz@unaffiliated/elgrecofl) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:55] <SpeedEvil> PKodon: yes
[4:55] <UnaClocker> TAFB_afk: http://www.neonsquirt.com/battery_backup.jpg
[4:55] <SpeedEvil> PKodon: easy cap
[4:55] <UnaClocker> Simple as that.. heh..
[4:56] <SpeedEvil> PKodon: but it doesn't do normal ham bands
[4:56] <SpeedEvil> it does do 70cm
[4:56] <TAFB_afk> UnaClocker: nice. 6v mattery?
[4:56] <TAFB_afk> battery
[4:56] <UnaClocker> Nope, 12v..
[4:56] <Scriven> PKodon, there are USB, but I haven't figured it all out yet. They hack pvr cards and stuff, but it's still beyond me at this point.
[4:56] <TAFB_afk> Ahhh. My buddie is using 6v lead acid batteries and stepping it down to 5.2v ish for the Pi :)
[4:57] <UnaClocker> 19v wall-wart from an old printer, goes into a $2 eBay switch mode voltage regulator, that steps it down to 13.8v to float the battery, and another switch mode regulator steps it down to 5v to feed the sheevaplug..
[4:57] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[4:57] <Scriven> PKodon, hackaday has lots of software defined radio stuff.
[4:57] <TAFB_afk> nice. Did you do any runtime tests?
[4:58] <PKodon> Scriven: Thanks, I'll look into that.
[4:58] <Scriven> PKodon, lmk if you figure it out, I may just buy one from you. ;)
[4:58] <UnaClocker> Nah, every time you deep cycle a lead acid, it cuts it's life down.. I think I did the math, and I should get at least 20 hours of the thing..
[4:58] <TAFB_afk> good stuff :)
[4:59] <Scriven> such awesome stuff in here today, lol
[4:59] <UnaClocker> Good enough for when my wife plugs the vacuum into the power strip and trips the breaker in it.. heh.. Or the kids unplug it for fun..
[4:59] <TAFB_afk> I'm a lithium fan :) Those 4 x 18650 battery boxes are $12, they do 2amps in/charge, dual 2 amps out (for Pi, cell phone, etc.), and they are super efficient boxes :)
[4:59] <Scriven> yeah I like the lipos too.
[4:59] <UnaClocker> Yeah, but I don't have to worry about this catching on fire.. ;)
[5:00] <UnaClocker> Ya know, I'd LOVE to convert my car to LiPo..
[5:00] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:00] <TAFB_afk> lol. My friend just got out of the hospital where he was for 6 months, cause his flashlight melted down :(
[5:00] <TAFB_afk> Hydrofloric Acid poisoning :(
[5:00] <Scriven> This is my biggest lipo (so far): http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20585__Turnigy_nano_tech_6600mah_2S2P_65_130C_Hardcase_Lipo_Pack.html
[5:00] <UnaClocker> It'd be a very unique car.. Starting the engine off LiPo's??? Have to have a BIG capacitor hooked to the alternator, and a charge controller on the LiPo off of that..
[5:00] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:01] <UnaClocker> TAFB_afk: Eeek..
[5:01] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, ew! Hope he's ok!
[5:01] * [[johnonymous]] (~johnonym@96-37-61-208.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[5:01] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: them are some thick power wires, what's the max amp draw on that battery?
[5:02] <TAFB_afk> he should be OK, still has lots of joint pain like arthritis but they said that should go away eventually.
[5:02] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:02] <TAFB_afk> it's insane how dangerous Li-Ion batteries are when they self destruct. the gasses they produce are unbelievably toxic :(
[5:02] * Zhaofeng_Li (Elite3737@wikipedia/Zhaofeng-Li) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[5:03] <Scriven> TAFB_afk, something scary like 100C. lol
[5:03] <Scriven> when I figured out what that meant I almost crapped myself (no joke BTW, it's hella-powerful).
[5:03] <UnaClocker> That's why I think I can start my car off them.. ;)
[5:03] <UnaClocker> I only need 200amps to crank the thing over..
[5:04] <Scriven> "only"... lol!
[5:04] * sedulous (~sedulous@unaffiliated/sed/x-0159859) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:04] * codile (codehero@78.46.64.92) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:04] <UnaClocker> heheh.. 6600mAh at 50c is 300amps..
[5:04] <Scriven> and yeah, some of the planes/helis these lipos power do draw that much, but not sustained for very long.
[5:04] <Scriven> especially the 3d planes.
[5:04] * angelos (angelos@gentoo/developer/angelos) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[5:04] * AlexanderS (AlexanderS@animux.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[5:04] <Scriven> that's why they only fly for 15 minutes even with massive brick batteries. lol!
[5:05] <Scriven> One of the RC Plane ESCs is rated itself for 200amps.
[5:05] <Scriven> not sure which one, been told that by others more knowledgeable than me.
[5:05] <UnaClocker> Plenty of air cooling on that thing, I'd imagine.
[5:05] <phorce> :Scriven So will you be allowed to use 22?
[5:05] <phorce> as a pin
[5:06] <Scriven> phorce, gpio 22, or physical 22?
[5:06] <Scriven> both should work counting now.
[5:06] <home> wth are you guys talking about
[5:06] <TAFB_afk> I think #raspberrypi is the most often off topic channel ever :)
[5:06] <phorce> physical
[5:06] <Scriven> phorce, This is where you can find the gpio pin layout: http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
[5:06] <Scriven> home, pi-powa!
[5:06] <Scriven> yeah, that looks to be gpio 25
[5:06] <UnaClocker> TAFB_afk: Not if we're using our Pi's to chat in here.. ;)
[5:07] <Scriven> should work ok, you'll need to change my code to match if you're using it.
[5:07] <TAFB_afk> UnaClocker: sneaky
[5:07] <UnaClocker> ;)
[5:07] <Scriven> and I have it coded for 'physical' pin, not gpio pin.
[5:08] <UnaClocker> Ooop, past my bedtime.. Goodnight all.
[5:08] <TAFB_afk> nite nite
[5:08] * UnaClocker (~una@c-67-185-8-139.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Sleep)
[5:09] * ScrPiFone (~raspberry@S01060026f3c70320.vc.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:09] * Scriven pats ScrPiFone on the head.
[5:09] <ScrPiFone> Ah, so chatting ON a pi, in #raspberrypi, nothing is off topic!
[5:09] * n13z (n13z@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-dyxcgdiwpbghqrdg) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[5:09] <ScrPiFone> muahahahahah!!
[5:09] <ScrPiFone> ;)
[5:10] <Scriven> I'm not used to irssi tho, so it hurts my brain. ;p
[5:10] <TAFB_afk> I tried to use vim, that hurt my brain. I switched to emacs, not sure if it hurts more or less.
[5:10] <Scriven> VI forever!
[5:10] * Scriven loves the SIX editor. ;p
[5:10] <Scriven> tried emacs once... now I go to meetings. ;)
[5:11] * yano (yano@freenode/staff/yano) Quit (Ping timeout: 620 seconds)
[5:11] <TAFB_afk> I'm trying to get flexget set up. The supid config file uses super picky indenting of double spaces? When I made it I used tabs all the way thrugh, messed it up bad :(
[5:11] <ScrPiFone> in vi s/^t/ /g ;)
[5:11] <home> irssi on RPI is fucking awesome
[5:12] <ScrPiFone> I agree!
[5:12] <TAFB_afk> watch the language home, this = family channel ;)
[5:12] <ScrPiFone> even though I'm not used to command-line irc-ing
[5:12] <home> oh damn it
[5:12] <home> I keep forgetting
[5:12] <TAFB_afk> np
[5:12] <ScrPiFone> lol!
[5:12] <home> LOOOL
[5:12] <home> i didn't say the d word
[5:12] <ScrPiFone> swearing-for-swearing FTW!
[5:12] <home> forget that
[5:12] <TAFB_afk> I copy and pasted a massive porn picture in here once, big fail :(
[5:12] <ScrPiFone> LOL!
[5:12] <ScrPiFone> just paste the URL next time! ;p
[5:13] <TAFB_afk> thought I had a link to my pi pic on my clipboard, but was not so
[5:13] <TAFB_afk> it was the url ;)
[5:13] * Orion_ (~Orion_@199.200.105.205) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:13] <ScrPiFone> phorce: how's it going? got blinky led yet?
[5:13] <home> I need battery powah for my rpi
[5:13] <phorce> Sorry for the late reply
[5:13] <phorce> YES
[5:13] <TAFB_afk> woot! in for blinky LED video!!!
[5:13] <home> especially since I diagnosed the AP problems being related to power input..
[5:13] <phorce> i now have 6 leds lighting up
[5:13] <ScrPiFone> yay!
[5:13] <TAFB_afk> do they blink to music?
[5:13] <ScrPiFone> phorce: YAY!
[5:14] <home> someone find me some lithium ion batteries..preferably in toronto :D
[5:14] <ScrPiFone> home: I got an AC-USB adapter that seems to work great.
[5:14] <TAFB_afk> I'm not far from toronto! I'm in whitby :)
[5:14] <phorce> i spent the day soldering and it's good to see them finally work so i can use them for my project
[5:14] * techsurvivor (~kvirc@70.114.242.12) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:14] <home> atleast 5000mah to 10000mah XD
[5:14] <ScrPiFone> home: hobby stores are your friend!
[5:14] <ScrPiFone> phorce: video!
[5:14] <TAFB_afk> home: I ordered my batteries from china :) I run my motorcycle on a lithium ion battery :)
[5:14] <ScrPiFone> the best place I've found for the batteries is hobbyking.com
[5:15] <ScrPiFone> I really like their 'nanotech' brand. compact but powerful.
[5:15] * sixseven (~sixseven@202.137.244.157) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:15] <ScrPiFone> I posted a link to the 6600mAh I bought for my RC Truck, can post again if you like home ?
[5:15] <home> sure
[5:15] <ScrPiFone> not sure how long it'll run my pi for, I want a volt/current meter b4 I do that test, to log everything.
[5:16] <home> the rpi must be able to power an arduino while power a wifi usb adapter
[5:16] <home> I am thinking I will need atleast 9k mah XD
[5:16] <ScrPiFone> http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20585__Turnigy_nano_tech_6600mah_2S2P_65_130C_Hardcase_Lipo_Pack.html
[5:16] <home> I also want to be able to monitor power usage :/
[5:16] * codile (codehero@irc.coding4coffee.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:16] <ScrPiFone> home: depends on how long you want to run.
[5:16] <home> a good 20-40 mins :)
[5:16] <TAFB_afk> ScrPiFone: I got a nice ADC converter for my Pi, and some current sensors, so I can measure my Pi in/out voltage and current draw too :) I'm gonna set up a logger for my solar panel :)
[5:16] <ScrPiFone> that with a CCBEC (castle creations BEC Voltage regulator) set to 5.3V and I'm golden. ;)
[5:17] <ScrPiFone> TAFB_afk: what current sensors? I'm really curious abut this stuff but have never done it myself before.
[5:17] <ScrPiFone> home: lol!
[5:17] <TAFB_afk> ScrPiFone: I'll give ya some links :)
[5:17] * Piffer (~Piffer@p579727BC.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[5:18] * sedulous (~sedulous@unaffiliated/sed/x-0159859) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:18] <TAFB_afk> ScrPiFone: This is the ADC I'm using. To read the input/output voltages and also read the output from the current sensors: http://www.abelectronics.co.uk/products/3/Raspberry-Pi/17/ADC-Pi-V2---Raspberry-Pi-Analogue-to-Digital-converter
[5:18] <home> TAFB_afk: save some for me too..I gotta sleep now :)
[5:18] <TAFB_afk> and one sec for current sensors link.
[5:19] <TAFB_afk> current sensors: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160898542592
[5:19] <home> 18 dollars
[5:19] <home> are you kidding me?
[5:19] <TAFB_afk> measure up to 5 amp curren draw.
[5:19] * mdszy (~mdszy@unaffiliated/mdszy) Quit (Quit: brb)
[5:20] * Zhaofeng_Li (Elite3737@wikipedia/Zhaofeng-Li) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:20] * Piffer (~Piffer@p579728E9.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:21] * yano (yano@freenode/staff/yano) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:22] <ScrPiFone> only 5A? That may not be enough actually, I'd rather 7 (the limit of my VR anyway)
[5:22] <TAFB_afk> My battery pack only draws a max of 4amps, so it works for me. They have 10 amp, 20amp and 30amp models, all the same price :)
[5:23] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56e7.bb.sky.com) Quit ()
[5:23] * ChanServ sets mode +o ukscone
[5:23] <ScrPiFone> and only 5.06V for the adc? Can't handle raw 2S lipo at that range! ;)
[5:23] * ScrPiFone is picky! ;)
[5:23] <ScrPiFone> TAFB_afk: AH, very cool thanks! I'll look for the 10A one, it would be perfect.
[5:23] * techsurvivor (~kvirc@70.114.242.12) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
[5:23] <ScrPiFone> I'll need at least 4 I figure.
[5:24] * home (~home@unaffiliated/home) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[5:25] * techsurvivor (~kvirc@70.114.242.12) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:25] <ScrPiFone> brb
[5:32] <ScrPiFone> TAFB_afk: I'm not sure exactly how this stuff works, so maybe I'm wrong. ;)
[5:33] <ScrPiFone> it would be cool to have it able to handle 3S lipo (11.1V nominal) at 10A.
[5:33] <ScrPiFone> that would allow me to monitor my batteries directly. Then have 2 more (5V, 5A is probably ok for them) to monitor power draw of each individual piece (pi, lcd, usb hub, etc)
[5:34] * dfib (~camsmith@ppp215-67.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:34] <TAFB_afk> Yeah, not sure exactly how that'd work. There'd be no problem measuring your Pi draw from your castle converter, but not sure about measuring the pack draw/voltage.
[5:34] * neue (~neue@93-96-136-159.zone4.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:35] <TAFB_afk> I'm sure they make something exactly like that current sensor, but it's a voltage sensor, will take your pack voltage into a 0 to 5v reading so you can read it with the ADC.
[5:35] <Scriven> yeah, no individual components will themselves be using 5A, (5.3V is what I have the ccbec set to tho).
[5:35] <TAFB_afk> 5.3 is pretty hot for the pi, the network and USB can be flakey over 5.2
[5:35] <Scriven> from previous discussions in here it's apparently a relatively simple circuit.
[5:35] <Scriven> Really? I'll drop it back then. 5.3 is within usb spec, that's why I picked it.
[5:36] <TAFB_afk> there's lots of stuff that's not in spec with the Pi ;)
[5:36] <Scriven> 5.2 is easy enough, just need to reboot into windows tomorrow and fix the ccbec settings.
[5:36] <Scriven> the bench setup is 5.0V anyway, so right now it's stable-as.
[5:36] * Milos is now known as Milos|RealBusy
[5:36] <TAFB_afk> nice. my battery boxes put out a flawless 5.0v as well :)
[5:37] <Scriven> is 5.0 enough? I thought there was voltage drop somewhere... but I may be confusin the pi with the autopilot I've been drooling over. lol
[5:37] <Scriven> bah, borked GGG key sucks! have to hammer on it to make it work.
[5:37] * TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[5:38] <TAFB_afk> I shorted out my Poly fuse F2 = no loss for me :)
[5:38] <Scriven> where did you find other sources for that 5A sensor, I'd like to find the 10A version. ;)
[5:38] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: I checked, only comes in 20a and 30a :( 20a will work, just will have less resolution.
[5:38] * Milos|RealBusy is now known as Milos|XtremelyBu
[5:39] <Scriven> AH, yeah the polyfuses. the final version of my project I'm hoping to have a 512mB version,that'll make some things simpler.
[5:39] <Triffid_Hunter> TAFB_afk, Scriven: two resistors. it's called a resistor divider
[5:39] <TAFB_afk> the 512mb has a polyfuse as well, that's what I'm running :)
[5:39] <Scriven> thought the newest ones had polyfuse removed?
[5:40] <Scriven> Triffid_Hunter, (great nick BTW), resistor-divider is the voltage-measuring circuit?
[5:40] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: yes. divide your battery voltage down to a range the pi can handle
[5:40] <TAFB_afk> they have the USB polyfuses removed, but still have an input polyfuse, which causes big voltage drop across the entire pi (usb included)
[5:40] * TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:40] <Scriven> ah yeah ok, I was reading about this earlier (wikipedia link already purple). I'm not quite there with doing those calculations yet tho. ;)
[5:41] <TAFB_afk> Scriven: Here's a 4 pack of the 20 amp ones :) http://www.ebay.com/itm/4pcs-x-New-20A-Range-ACS712T-ELC-20A-Module-Current-Sensor-Module-/150920486715?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23238fdf3b
[5:41] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: heh that's easy stuff, Vout = Vin * R1 / (R1 + R2), so with a 10k and a 33k you'll get 2.93v out for 12.6v in
[5:42] * Milos|XtremelyBu is now known as Milos
[5:42] * AlexanderS (AlexanderS@animux.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:42] <Scriven> Is there some way I can add a current-measuring to the same unit Triffid_Hunter, or is that where the little i2c device TAFB_afk was talking about comes in?
[5:42] <Triffid_Hunter> those ACS712 are pretty neat, I have some in a shopping cart for one of my projects. has a hall sensor internally, so the output side is completely isolated from the sensing side
[5:42] * Scriven is very new to this diy-stuff, sadly.
[5:42] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: ACS712 is good, plenty of similar chips
[5:43] <TAFB_afk> Triffid_Hunter: Does it matter what voltage the ACS712 is current sensing? as long as it has +5v supply is fine right?
[5:43] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: arduino commuinty is excellent for learning, suggest you grab some of those.. rpi is massive overkill for reading voltage and current
[5:43] <Triffid_Hunter> TAFB_afk: yep, the sensed side is completely isolated, can hook it to 415v 3-phase if you like
[5:44] <TAFB_afk> dirty :) nice to know
[5:44] <TAFB_afk> so Scriven, you can use those current sensors to measure your battery pack curren draw, as long as you connect them to your Pi's 5v out for their power supply :)
[5:44] <Scriven> Triffid_Hunter, arduino's on my list, just waiting for mr.wallet to agree.
[5:44] <Triffid_Hunter> TAFB_afk: apparently has bandwidth up to 80khz, could make a neat power meter with true RMS and power factor sensing
[5:45] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: <$20 from hong kong via ebay
[5:45] <Scriven> Triffid_Hunter, I also don't plan on ONLY using the pi to measure the voltage, it's just one piece I want it to do. I'm looking to build a wearable computer cell-phone. ;)
[5:45] <Scriven> want to be fully aware of the internals of the device, so it can tell me the current state of all of 'itself', if you understand.
[5:46] <Scriven> especially since I'll be using lipos and dont' want to set myself on fire. lol
[5:46] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: ah, may want to check out the battery management chips that laptop batteries use
[5:46] <Scriven> yeah, they'll have charge capability too, and I'm not sure I want to go that far (yet).
[5:46] <Scriven> Have a good external charger, since I run RC Trucks w/ the batteries too.
[5:46] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: some of those are awesome. full voltage+current monitoring, user-settable trip points, coulomb counter, temperature sensor etc etc
[5:47] <Scriven> I've come across some of the temp-sensor ones in my googling, they do look awesome yes! A bit above my head still from what I've read and not understood. lol
[5:48] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TYZEKttEzL-Gs6jMMpW0rNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0 may interest you, that's what I'm planning on using an ACS712 with although it looks like I'm going to be retro-fitting it for much higher current
[5:48] <Scriven> you know, I've never actually searched for 'arduino' on ebay... holy crap it's an eye-opening experience!!
[5:48] <Scriven> DIY ESC?? Fantastic!
[5:48] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: there are exceptions, but I've heard that generally the hong kong clones are higher quality than the genuine italian article
[5:49] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: that one's just for brushed motors.. would show video but I stripped the gearbox within a week of building it.. was having too much fun
[5:49] <Scriven> Triffid_Hunter, are you a member of diydrones.com by any chance? There's a group in that site talking about a diy esc as well.
[5:49] <Triffid_Hunter> nope
[5:49] <Scriven> may be worth a look, it's in their forums IIRC.
[5:49] <Triffid_Hunter> but ESC are pretty easy to make if you already have some background in power electronics
[5:50] <Scriven> last time I took an electrical course was 1st year engineering... made my head hurt. lol
[5:50] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: http://triffid-hunter.no-ip.info/bldc_brd.png <-- this is the board I'm designing for BLDCs, hoping to get 100A, will find out when I've built it
[5:50] <Scriven> and no I never graduated. :(
[5:50] <Triffid_Hunter> neither
[5:50] <Scriven> that 2 or 3 layer?
[5:50] <Triffid_Hunter> although my problem was the opposite.. they didn't have anything to teach that I hadn't already taught myself, and I didn't have the patience to put up with years of boredom just for a bit of paper that says I can do it
[5:50] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: 2
[5:51] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: the cyan striped sections are tstop+tcream, basically I cut the solder mask off there, and solder used wick on to beef up the traces
[5:51] * ceti331_ (~ceti331_@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:51] <Scriven> wow, excellent!
[5:52] <flexnard> /quit out
[5:52] * flexnard (~flexnard@host-169-126-2-96.midco.net) Quit (Quit: out)
[5:52] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: because with the amount of power I intend to drop through this board, it's entirely possible that I'll blow the traces
[5:52] <Scriven> For me electric stuff in high school was awesome. Learned a lot... but when I tried to take that to university, they flipped the math on me for some reason... add that to the addition of calculus and I fried my poor little brain.
[5:52] <Scriven> couldn't handle both learning and 'gurls' at the same time... guess which one won out? LOL
[5:53] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: the way they teach it in uni sucks, all complex math and no hands-on so you never know what any of it means
[5:53] <Scriven> yeah, I should probably have taken the trades version first, but frankly I didn't even think of the trades until about a year ago.
[5:53] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: amasci.com/ele_edu.html is great for fundamentals if you want to brush up, then sites like allaboutcircuits.com and sound.westhost.com can fill in more of the picture
[5:53] <Scriven> and I'm pretty sure at 40 it's too late to start a trade and be useful.
[5:53] <Triffid_Hunter> they teach tradies microelectronics in your country?
[5:54] <Triffid_Hunter> wow, what a luxury
[5:54] <Scriven> no, not microelectrics, that would have been another addition.
[5:54] <Scriven> electronics even.
[5:54] <Scriven> it's funny, my Dad's a carpenter, and I didn't even _consider_ the trades, went straight to engineering and flunked out instead.
[5:55] <Scriven> it's funny how the brain works, or doesn't as the case may be.
[5:55] * bizarro_1 (~bizarro_1@188.Red-83-49-225.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:55] <Triffid_Hunter> I hear folk are pretty obsessed with the prestige of university over there
[5:56] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:57] <Scriven> yeah, maybe less-so now that there are so many university graduates serving coffee and trades looking for work.
[5:57] <Scriven> Getting into the RC stuff last year blew my mind.
[5:57] <Scriven> I'd always been a tinkerer, build my own pc's, do tech support for friends/family, program web pages, etc.
[5:58] <Scriven> but to see the crap 'normal' people can do for their RC hobbies, then finding diydrones.com... well, it made me wish I'd taken a trade instead of failingg out of university 2x.
[5:58] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: ps: the chip on my ESC is an atmega328, same chip as arduino ;)
[5:58] <Scriven> I'd have taken millwright I think, if I'd known.
[5:58] <Scriven> tres cool.
[5:59] <Triffid_Hunter> I could treat it as an arduino if I was feeling masochistic
[5:59] <Scriven> my uncle got into the atmel when they first came out. Tried to get me interested but I was too 'busy'. He replaced the busted timer in his washer with one, and gave it phancy new powers.
[6:01] <Triffid_Hunter> you'd be amazed where we are these days in terms of silicon.. I'm playing with cortex-m3 and cortex-m4 family microcontrollers at the moment
[6:01] * Bhaal (~bhaal@freenode/staff-emeritus/bhaal) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:02] * Kyzz (~quassel@ip-131-123-60-40.housing.res.kent.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:04] * Bhaal (~bhaal@freenode/staff-emeritus/bhaal) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:04] <Scriven> It's a bit overwhelming, being on the steep part of so many learning curves at the same time. lol!
[6:04] <Scriven> At least I know what I want to do is possible, even if I haven't yet grokked how to do it myself yet.
[6:05] * alexhairyman (~alexhairy@c-174-52-149-118.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:05] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: fwiw, R/C batteries sacrifice capacity for instantaneous current draw, might be worth your while investigating getting an existing laptop battery with built-in management chip
[6:05] <Scriven> once I get voltage meter working, I can program a little lipo-cutoff program to run on the pi and shut itself down if necessary.
[6:06] <Scriven> can't afford much else in terms of hardware, this is using stuff I have already and can use for multiple projects.
[6:06] <Scriven> 3rd project may be an e-bike-computer w/ the pi.
[6:06] <Scriven> so would need to be able to measure current <=30A, and voltage <=110V.
[6:07] <Scriven> I figure i'll start with the pi-phone first.
[6:08] * sixseven (~sixseven@202.137.244.157) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[6:09] <Scriven> I do have some excess cellphone and laptop lipos sitting around tho.
[6:09] <Scriven> always a bit afraid to physically hack with lipos, lol!
[6:10] * aDro (~l4gl3ss@d67-193-252-25.home3.cgocable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[6:11] * ceti331_ (~ceti331_@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[6:13] * n2deep (n2deep@odin.sdf-eu.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:13] * Alt_of_C1rl (~Alt_of_Ct@bl5-6-235.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:14] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: yeah be really careful, they easily start fires if shorted
[6:14] <Triffid_Hunter> the R/C ones from ohmic heating and arcing, the phone ones aren't generally powerful enough for that, but they will puff up and vent lithium
[6:14] * Alt_of_Ctrl (~Alt_of_Ct@bl13-137-139.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:15] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[6:16] <Scriven> yeah I know. Have my charge bags (2 in fact, one for charging, one for storage) and have watched various youtube videos on lipo saftey and what the numbers mean.
[6:16] * mdim (~user@c-98-202-219-86.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:17] <Scriven> I'm Especially careful when I cut off the existing ends and wire on 'proper' anderson power poles. lol! It makes me a bit nervous every time, and I always remember to finish-and-cover one pin before I go onto the next.
[6:17] <Scriven> and I generally start with neutral and do power last.
[6:18] <Triffid_Hunter> I've been putting XT-60 connectors everywhere, they're nice
[6:20] <TAFB_afk> nice :) http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~furrball/temp/rcheli-xt60-05.jpg
[6:21] <Scriven> Triffid_Hunter, I did some reading, everyone around here is a Deans lover (of course), except for a few XT60 hobby-king lovers. I liked the powerpoles for a few reasons, 1: same as my ebike, 2: actually have safety rating (deans are NOT tested in any way, even real 'official' ones)
[6:22] * idstam (~johan@c-1b7772d5.027-359-73746f23.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:23] * neirpyc (~neirpyc@softbank126012249155.bbtec.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:23] * Alt_of_C1rl (~Alt_of_Ct@bl5-6-235.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:24] <flufmnstr> im playing around with scripting GPIO functions and have a problem. im running this: http://pastebin.com/efx42hPy but the effect seems to be inverted. in prints "giggle" every 2 second unless i press the buttion. any ideas on whats going on?
[6:24] <Scriven> and I do like to be different sometimes. I just wired up adapters so if I'm in the field w/ the trucks and run out of batteries, I can adapt my power poles to what ever folks have aorund me.
[6:24] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: lot of folk at the local hackerspace here don't like deans much.. something about them coming apart too easily
[6:24] <Scriven> flufmnstr, I may be wrong, but you seem to be saying 'giggle' when the button is false, which would mean open.
[6:25] <Scriven> Triffid_Hunter, yeah, they either seem to be too loose or stupid-tight. I think it depends on if you use real deans or chinese knockoff 't' connectors too, but not sure.
[6:26] <Scriven> I wanted to go with something that actually HAS been rated by CSA or something. 30A rated PP can handle 70A before melting. ;)
[6:26] <Scriven> iirc
[6:26] <flufmnstr> ah, makes sense. print and mybutton should be on the same indentation level
[6:26] <flufmnstr> ...i think
[6:26] <Scriven> nope.
[6:26] <Scriven> because you want to print only if the button is pressed.
[6:26] <Scriven> which I'd assume is 'true' and not 'false'.
[6:26] <Scriven> but again I may be wrong.
[6:27] <Scriven> first thing I'd do is s/false/true and see what happens.
[6:27] * Alt_of_Ctrl (~Alt_of_Ct@bl4-177-189.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:27] <Scriven> while the switch is open (not pressed) I'd presume the 'mybutton' is false. And your logic says 'if false say giggle', so 'if open/unpressed say giggle'
[6:28] <Scriven> so try switching false to true, and it may work for you better. hopefully.
[6:28] <Scriven> but you do want the indentations to stay the same, they look correct, because you want the 'print' to be conditional on the 'if'
[6:28] <Triffid_Hunter> Scriven: thing I like about XT-60 is their design current is 80A so they'd probably handle 120A or more in short bursts.. also, all the ones I have seem to possess very consistent mating friction, enough that it won't come apart by itself even if your battery drops out the bottom of your plane, but not so much that it's a struggle when you want to unplug them
[6:28] <Triffid_Hunter> I'm also surprised that I haven't melted any while soldering them, must be made out of proper high temp plastic
[6:29] <Scriven> yeah, they do seem to be nice. 80A is crazy BTW, holy crap. lol! There's 45 and 75A andersons if I need that much powa! ;)
[6:29] <Scriven> it's nice that they're the HK 'default', have a freshly snipped head right here in fact.
[6:30] <Scriven> Hrm... wonder if I can wire up an old pc case momentary switch to gpio, and turn on led when I press it...
[6:30] * Alt_of_C1rl (~Alt_of_Ct@bl14-106-55.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:31] <NESIT> anyone mess with tvservice to turn the screen on and off?
[6:32] <Scriven> Triffid_Hunter, been thinking of this too: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10643 another diydrones thing. ;)
[6:32] <Scriven> NESIT, sorry, not me.
[6:32] * Alt_of_Ctrl (~Alt_of_Ct@bl4-177-189.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[6:33] <NESIT> trying to get the timing right
[6:33] * Yachtsman (~Yachts@dsl253-084-059.hou1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:37] <NESIT> http://youtu.be/qOjfjqvTmvc turning on screen then running omxplayer, but theres a slight second before the vidoe plays that shows the console, trying to figure out how to blank the console
[6:38] <Scriven> flufmnstr, did it work?
[6:39] <Triffid_Hunter> NESIT: clear?
[6:41] <NESIT> yea but there would still be a little bit left on the screen
[6:42] <Triffid_Hunter> NESIT: clear && omxplayer file.avi &>/dev/null will leave the terminal quite blank I assure you
[6:43] <flufmnstr> Scriven: like a charm. i could have swarn i tried that the other night. oh well. thanks mate
[6:44] <Triffid_Hunter> NESIT: alternatively you can use the console blanking stuff that setterm alters
[6:45] * tdy_ (~tim@piscataway.als.uiuc.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:45] <Triffid_Hunter> NESIT: perhaps something like clear && wakeup_screen && sleep 1 && omxplayer ...
[6:46] <Scriven> flufmnstr, glad to help!
[6:47] <NESIT> p = subprocess.Popen("clear && omxplayer access_granted.avi &>/dev/null", shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.STDOUT)
[6:47] <NESIT> tried that but no dice
[6:47] <Scriven> Triffid_Hunter, do you know how to measure the ohm rating of a resistor? have lots left over from stripping computer cases, and wonder how I can use them on the pi. ;)
[6:49] <SpeedEvil> colour banded!
[6:49] <SpeedEvil> ?
[6:49] <SpeedEvil> Scriven:
[6:49] * Milos is now known as Milos|Baked
[6:51] <Scriven> LOL, sorry, I mean LEDs. lol!
[6:51] <Scriven> yeah, the resistor IS colour banded!
[6:51] <Scriven> not sure where exactly I'd strip a resistor from a case actually, but there's plenty of LEDs. ;)
[6:51] <Scriven> thanks SpeedEvil !
[6:52] * neue (~neue@93-96-136-159.zone4.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
[6:54] <Scriven> want to know what resistors I need to use, that's probably why I said resistor.
[6:54] <Scriven> don't want to smoke anything.
[6:58] <NESIT> figure it out: os.system('clear')
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[7:02] <Scriven> Ah, this: http://www.instructables.com/community/Measuring-LED-Voltage/
[7:02] <RiXtEr> NESIT, you must be using python?
[7:03] * tdy_ (~tim@piscataway.als.uiuc.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[7:20] * ianonavy (~ianonavy@russet-ethernet.res.wpi.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:20] <ianonavy> Is anyone here on the team that manages Raspbian?
[7:20] <ianonavy> Apparently the URL to the vim packages is broken...
[7:21] * canton7 (~canton7@li299-15.members.linode.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[7:24] <Macer> how an i increase the swap file size in raspbian?
[7:24] <Macer> i think right now it is set to 100MB
[7:24] <mike_t> Macer, dphys-swapfile
[7:27] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@91-119-55-227.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[7:27] <Macer> h
[7:27] <Macer> why does it say default is 2x ram size
[7:28] * KindOne (~KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[7:28] <Macer> but it just generated a 100MB one again?
[7:28] <mike_t> swapoff -> setup -> swapon
[7:29] * KindOne (~KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:30] <Macer> same
[7:30] <Macer> maybe it is set in etc
[7:30] <Macer> to 100 by default?
[7:31] <Macer> let me check
[7:31] <Macer> sure is lol
[7:32] <Macer> i guess it is set that way by default for people using small SDs
[7:34] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@91-119-55-227.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:34] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
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[7:40] <Macer> ah well. just set it to 1024
[7:40] <Macer> problem solved
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[8:57] * Willdude123 (uid7822@wikipedia/W-D) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[9:03] <gordonDrogon> morning...
[9:05] * sixseven (~sixseven@202.137.244.157) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[9:07] * ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[9:08] <neirpyc> gordonDrogon: heya
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[9:13] <TAFB_afk> mornin
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[10:02] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@APuteaux-652-1-11-203.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[10:07] <gordonDrogon> and that's breakfast done & dusted!
[10:07] <gordonDrogon> quiet old morning here..
[10:07] <Emmycakes> morning :)
[10:07] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[10:07] * Gorroth (~grimw@ool-182ca110.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[10:09] * neilr (~neilr@54.25.187.81.in-addr.arpa) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:09] <Emmycakes> powered up my Pi last night
[10:10] <Emmycakes> black screen, nada on the TV, very sad :<
[10:10] <nid0> and now you have the fun of making it work
[10:14] * FR^2 (~frquadrat@farsquare.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:15] * DK-MODE (~DK-MODE@149.241.159.171) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:15] <Emmycakes> nid0: w/o any output I'm lost as to where to start
[10:15] <gordonDrogon> have you successfully powered it up before, or is this the first time?
[10:16] <nid0> if its dead on first attempt to use it, what leds do you have coming on, just the red power light?
[10:16] <Emmycakes> first time, just the red LED
[10:17] <Emmycakes> TV says the HDMI is connected but can't get any signal
[10:17] <nid0> its most likely either a power issue, or the sd card isnt written properly or not inserted fully
[10:17] <neilr> I'd suspect the SD card
[10:17] * gordonDrogon nods.
[10:17] <Emmycakes> shouldn't I get at least some sort of output?
[10:17] <nid0> no
[10:17] <Emmycakes> like "Please insert a boot disk" ?
[10:17] <nid0> if you have nothing written on the sd card, the pi doesnt boot
[10:17] <gordonDrogon> you should get a little blip of green when you first turn it on as it reads the first file from the SD.
[10:17] <neilr> I had all sorts of problems with one of my pis - the little spring at the back of the holder that tells it a card is inserted was broken.
[10:18] <gordonDrogon> (or tries to read the first file)
[10:18] <neilr> I just soldered it closed in the end
[10:18] <gordonDrogon> didn't think anything bothered to read that!
[10:19] <Emmycakes> I'm using a 32gb class 10
[10:19] <nid0> how exactly did you write the image to it
[10:20] <Emmycakes> from terminal
[10:20] <nid0> what exact command?
[10:20] <Emmycakes> sudo dd if=raspi.img of=/dev/disk3s1 bs=1m
[10:21] <nid0> remove the s1
[10:21] <nid0> and have another go
[10:21] <nid0> assuming /dev/disk3 is your sd card when plugged into a card reader
[10:21] * Weaselweb (~quassel@77-64-181-50.dynamic.primacom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:22] <Emmycakes> it shows up as disk3s1 in disk util, it's odd
[10:22] * bodin (~bodin@ip25-96.pitecom.riksnet.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:22] <gordonDrogon> you want to dd to the drive, not the partition.
[10:23] <gordonDrogon> most SD cards will come pre-formatted for Win "to make it easy" for you.
[10:23] <gordonDrogon> but this isn't what we need here.
[10:23] <Emmycakes> ah right
[10:23] * Datalink|Elsewhe (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:25] * Datalink (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
[10:27] * Tachyon` (~quassel@cpc1-york2-0-0-cust192.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:27] * ahven (~kala@194.126.113.140) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] <Macer> raspbian should have its installer base the size of the swap on the size of the sd as well heh
[10:28] <Macer> i was wondering why i was having problems and it was due to a 100MB default swap
[10:31] <Tachyon`> what, too large?
[10:32] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@149.241.236.236) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:32] <Tachyon`> turned it off entirely on mine
[10:32] <Tachyon`> if you're putting swap on SD you're doing it wrong
[10:33] <ShiftPlusOne> default swapiness makes it so that it is only used if you're about to run out of ram, so it certainly makes sense to have it.
[10:33] <ShiftPlusOne> Not for general use, but just in case.
[10:34] <Tachyon`> ah, you do seem to be right at that, unlike my desktop machine, the pi has used 0 swap after being on for over a day, wasn't aware of that actually
[10:34] <Tachyon`> the desktop machine starts moving things to swap if you turn your back for more than a couple of seconds
[10:35] <ShiftPlusOne> you can adjust that behaviour to something more sensible on your desktop as well.
[10:35] <Tachyon`> that said, if the sd swap were ever used you'd bloody know about it, SD does not lend itself to the tiny random access swap needs
[10:36] <ShiftPlusOne> yup
[10:37] * piprogramming (~feasty@host81-149-137-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:38] <Tachyon`> I remember when I used to compile a kernel on my old 486, what an all day task that was with much swapping and that was to hard disk,lol
[10:38] <Tachyon`> only had a few MB of RAM then mind (it was expensive, ??20-??30 or one model B per MiB)
[10:39] <Tachyon`> I remember back then, someone who had to have the newest of everything built a 32MB machine
[10:39] <Tachyon`> it used 8x4MB 30 pin SIMMs and the memory alone cost him 800 quid
[10:40] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[10:40] <Tachyon`> Why did he need so much RAM I hear you ask?
[10:40] <Tachyon`> well, he didn't
[10:41] <ShiftPlusOne> so you tied an onion to your belt, which was the style at the time?
[10:41] <Tachyon`> but thought if Wing Commander 3 was good in 8MB
[10:41] <Tachyon`> it would be 4 times as good in 32
[10:41] * Tachyon` sighs
[10:41] <Luke-Jr> ramzswap is nice sometimes.
[10:42] <gordonDrogon> different people have vastly different ideas about swap and swappiness.
[10:42] <Macer> well, if you say run fengoffice
[10:42] <Macer> it will swap
[10:42] <gordonDrogon> for example, I think that a small swap file is fine but swappiness should be high.
[10:42] <Tachyon`> onion?
[10:42] <Macer> or a webserver running multiple vhosts
[10:42] <Macer> using php and mysql
[10:42] <Macer> cant avoid it on 512MB
[10:43] <gordonDrogon> and that while a Pi is capable of running a LAMP stack, it's possible not the best platform for anything other than a quick demo...
[10:44] <Macer> just saying ;)
[10:44] <gordonDrogon> me too.
[10:44] <Macer> i thought 100 was a bit low especially when trying to run something serious
[10:45] <Macer> other than that i havent seen noticable slowdown with a 1GB swap heh
[10:45] <gordonDrogon> it might well be, but if you're running something that needs swap then it's going to be really really really slow on the Pi
[10:45] <Macer> depends on the swapiness like you said
[10:45] <Macer> i figure the sd seek time might help
[10:46] <gordonDrogon> swappiness doesn't force stuff into swap. Linux will swap when it needs to regardless of that setting.
[10:46] * mpmc|Away is now known as mpmc
[10:46] <Macer> sure
[10:46] <gordonDrogon> a higher swappiness neans that it'll free up more real ram quicker.
[10:47] <Macer> but if it frees it and pulls from the swap because it needs it
[10:47] <Macer> wouldnt the seek time still help?
[10:47] <gordonDrogon> it depends what you're doing... if you don't do that much then overall, I reckon it makes it quicker.
[10:47] <gordonDrogon> seek time? with solid state memory? it's still lower than mechanicals..
[10:48] <Macer> er....
[10:48] <Macer> i thought it was faster
[10:48] <nid0> it is
[10:48] <Macer> wasnt that the point of the ssd stuff ?
[10:48] <nid0> a lower seek time = faster
[10:48] <Macer> slower speeds but faster seek
[10:49] <Macer> although ssd has obviously gotten far faster at both
[10:49] <Tachyon`> sd/ssd has 0 seek time
[10:49] <Tachyon`> but that's not the problem
[10:49] * hyppias (hyppias@5353041A.cm-6-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:49] <Tachyon`> the problem is whole sectors having to be rewritten for tiny changes
[10:50] <Tachyon`> particularly with SD which doesn't have loads of flash chips working in parallel to mitigate taht
[10:50] <Macer> isnt it the same for mechanical drives?
[10:50] <hyppias> I have a Pi running an apache server now. I can make an .img file from the SD card. Can I run that image on a VMWARE virtual machine ?
[10:51] * DK-MODE (~DK-MODE@149.241.159.171) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[10:51] <Tachyon`> well, yes, but a mechanical drive sector is 512 bytes, an SD sector is typically 128K and must be erased and rewritten
[10:51] <Macer> ouch
[10:51] <Macer> why so large?
[10:51] <Tachyon`> I don't know, it's just how flash chips are designed
[10:52] <Macer> i guess sd was not really meant to be an os drive anyways tho
[10:52] <Macer> more storage for cams etc heh
[10:52] <gordonDrogon> it's sometimes worse than that too - 4K isn't uncommon. Some disks are moving to 4K too.
[10:52] <Tachyon`> really?
[10:52] <Tachyon`> they'd hav to present 512 bytes to the OS
[10:52] <Tachyon`> so where is the advantage -.o
[10:52] <gordonDrogon> remember SD's are (were) aimed at cameras - medial players etc. write big files very seldomly, read lots...
[10:53] * hyperair (hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[10:53] <Macer> im guessing the structure is a bit different for ssd?
[10:53] <Tachyon`> SSD has many NAND chips working in parallel
[10:53] <gordonDrogon> we probably should be using a different filesystem on them for linux, but it's just easy to use ext4, etc.
[10:54] <Tachyon`> typically 8, 16 or 32 on the ones I've seen
[10:54] <Macer> 2 sd slots and zfs heh
[10:54] <Tachyon`> no.
[10:54] <Tachyon`> 256 or even 512MB is not enough to run ZFS, particularly it's not enough to run ZFS and do anything useful
[10:54] <Tachyon`> add to that the bottleneck with the USB/ethernet
[10:54] <Macer> oh
[10:55] <Macer> forgot about that
[10:55] <Tachyon`> yes,I did think about using a pi as a nas
[10:55] <Tachyon`> but it's just not really suited to the task
[10:55] <nid0> hyppias: no
[10:55] <Macer> but your example assumes small sd storage space
[10:55] <Tachyon`> a single drive and samba works well enough
[10:55] <gordonDrogon> jack of all trades... master of nonw.
[10:55] <Tachyon`> but anything more than that...
[10:55] <Macer> heh
[10:56] <Macer> maybe pis will get a side sata controller some day
[10:56] <Tachyon`> I was hoping for 4 and RAID5 myself using md which doesn't have the requirements of ZFS
[10:56] <Tachyon`> but no
[10:56] * lifelike (~lifelike@64.229.149.104) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:56] <Tachyon`> that's not doable either with any speed
[10:56] <Macer> really?
[10:56] <Tachyon`> due to the USB/ethernet using the same single real usb port
[10:56] <gordonDrogon> waaaayyy back I'd "overload" a little 486/P120 Linux with with everything under the sun - because it could take it, but the price was lack of speed... Same thing is happening with the Pi as I see it.
[10:56] <gordonDrogon> However Pi's are cheap enough to have several, each dedicated to a task...
[10:56] * Willdude123 (uid7822@wikipedia/W-D) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:56] <Tachyon`> yeah, because linux is bloated as allhell these days
[10:56] <Macer> lol
[10:57] <Tachyon`> I used to be able to run Linux and X in 4MB ffs
[10:57] <Macer> has anybody clustered pis?
[10:57] <Tachyon`> yes
[10:57] <nid0> yes
[10:57] <gordonDrogon> 4MB? That would have been really pushing it.
[10:57] <Macer> wow
[10:57] <Tachyon`> a kid (or rather the kids dad) made a cluster of 32
[10:57] <Macer> omg lol
[10:57] <Macer> how did it work out?
[10:57] <gordonDrogon> my first Linux box was 32MB though.
[10:57] <Tachyon`> it was mentioned on the site
[10:57] <Tachyon`> well, as I metnioend above, at the time 32MB cost 800 quid, haha
[10:57] <Macer> gordonDrogon: mine was a 486 w/8MB
[10:58] <Tachyon`> first linux was slackware 2
[10:58] <gordonDrogon> Linux itself isn't too bad, it's the eye candy GUIs...
[10:58] <Tachyon`> in the mid 1990s
[10:58] <Macer> what have we done to ourselves? heh
[10:58] <Tachyon`> ah well, I didn't run those
[10:58] <Macer> yeah
[10:58] * neilr notes again that pi <> linux
[10:58] <Tachyon`> fvwm was fine then
[10:58] <Tachyon`> and would be now
[10:58] * Tachyon` notes neilr is a basic programmer
[10:58] <neilr> and?
[10:58] <Macer> basic as in.... the language?
[10:58] <Tachyon`> yes
[10:58] <gordonDrogon> actually trying to think what I had initially. It was a 486 DX @ 66MHz. It might not have had 32MB of RAM... Still - it was leaps and bounds better than the sparcstation I had!
[10:58] <Macer> wow
[10:58] <Tachyon`> or he'd ahve used !=
[10:59] <Macer> people use that still?
[10:59] <gordonDrogon> BASIC is cool.
[10:59] <Tachyon`> well, it has its place
[10:59] <Macer> heh
[10:59] <Tachyon`> it's what I started with
[10:59] <Tachyon`> on the ZX81 and BBC
[10:59] <Macer> most did
[10:59] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@149.241.236.236) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[10:59] <Macer> but that is like using pascal nowadays
[10:59] * Bochi (bochi@nat/novell/x-xsddrnmrcybvvclx) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:59] <gordonDrogon> HP mini, then dialup to the local school service then Apple II.
[10:59] <Tachyon`> well, I agree people should learn on something else
[10:59] <gordonDrogon> Personally I think people should still learn on BASIC
[11:00] <gordonDrogon> at least for a day or 2.
[11:00] <Tachyon`> gordonDrogon: , how old are you/
[11:00] <gordonDrogon> 50.
[11:00] <Macer> people should be forced to lear their cs degree
[11:00] <Tachyon`> basic promotes bad habits though, especially vb
[11:00] <Tachyon`> ahh
[11:00] * refrus (whocares@31-151-221-118.dynamic.upc.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:00] <Tachyon`> you have 13 years on me, lol
[11:00] <Macer> forced to lean asm
[11:00] <Macer> heh
[11:00] * Tachyon` not quite old enough to have used dialup to a central system
[11:00] <Macer> and python should be banned from existance
[11:00] <Tachyon`> yeah, I learned Z80 and 6502 because I had to to do anything useful
[11:00] <gordonDrogon> I remember the thundering tty33 quire well :)
[11:00] <hyppias> nid0: thnx
[11:00] <Macer> and its creator shot in the face
[11:00] <Tachyon`> a proper paper teletype?
[11:01] <gordonDrogon> yup.
[11:01] <gordonDrogon> when I went to uny we had a room with 30 of them...
[11:01] <gordonDrogon> which I found to be a huge dissapointment after using Apple II's for a couple of years.
[11:01] <Tachyon`> http://www.pokenet.co.uk/misc/images.random/hid7.jpg <- an old picture of a small me on a small computer in 1982 -.o;
[11:01] <Macer> anything other than c/c++ or asm should be a capital offense
[11:01] * nutcase (~nutcase@unaffiliated/nutcase) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[11:02] <gordonDrogon> Tachyon`, neat :)
[11:02] <neilr> oh, you mean the asm that's available inline in BBC BASIC?
[11:02] <Tachyon`> ah, yes, that 6502
[11:02] <Tachyon`> although the z80 was first poking and data statements, then devpac
[11:02] <gordonDrogon> my current Apple II: http://unicorn.drogon.net/lode.jpg
[11:02] <Macer> neilr: that is cheating
[11:02] <Tachyon`> it is not!
[11:02] <Tachyon`> the BBC was just an excellent machine
[11:02] * nutcase (~nutcase@unaffiliated/nutcase) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:02] <Tachyon`> still have one setup in here
[11:02] * astralab (~astralab@d192-24-207-72.col.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[11:02] <gordonDrogon> I'm not convinced on the whole teach assembler thing.
[11:02] <Tachyon`> with an SD interface
[11:03] <gordonDrogon> BASIC yes.
[11:03] <neilr> gordondrogon: I agree
[11:03] <Tachyon`> anyone who says optimising compilers are as good as a human with an assembler is wrong
[11:03] <gordonDrogon> but use BASIC as a means to weed out the people who really are keen, then move them onto something else.
[11:03] <Macer> java was a good idea gone bad
[11:03] <neilr> BASIC is still more than enough for 95% of the things I want to do
[11:03] <gordonDrogon> I saw optimising compilers are better than a human with an assembler.
[11:03] <gordonDrogon> er, say.
[11:04] <Tachyon`> come over here so I can hit you
[11:04] <Macer> haha
[11:04] <gordonDrogon> I've seen both sides.
[11:04] * ShiftPlusOne grabs the popcorn
[11:04] <Tachyon`> okay, they're quicker for somet things, loop unrolling and so on
[11:04] <Macer> gordonDrogon: it is like nasa of the 60s vs nasa of the now
[11:04] <Tachyon`> but perfect they aren't
[11:04] <Macer> 60s scientists had to use paper
[11:04] * lifelike (~lifelike@64.229.149.104) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:04] <gordonDrogon> I've written hand-coded DIM mode i860 code - and see what the compilers produced - and that was 20 years ago
[11:04] * owen_ (~owen@180.200.154.48) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[11:04] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:05] <gordonDrogon> give me the compiler any day.
[11:05] * astralab (~astralab@d192-24-207-72.col.wideopenwest.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:05] <Macer> i think 60s scientists were geniuses... current scientists put half their work into a computer anf take it all at face value
[11:05] * ChanServ sets mode +o Davespice
[11:05] <Davespice> morning folks
[11:05] <gordonDrogon> the compilers may lag new hardware, but they get there in the end - especially some of the vendor supported ones rather than the more generic gcc.
[11:05] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning, Dave
[11:05] <Tachyon`> speaking of that, I was pleased to see Alan Turing got an apology finally a few years ago, I'd have rather seen a pardon though
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> the early days were different - the computers themselves didn't have the resources to properly support the compilers
[11:06] <Davespice> Tachyon`: there is a campaign to get him a pardon iirc, but the government are resisting it because they think it will open the flood gates
[11:07] <Tachyon`> aye, that is unfortunate -.-
[11:07] <gordonDrogon> it's also arguably wrong to retrospectively change the law - as that's effectively what they need to do.
[11:07] <Macer> heh
[11:07] <Davespice> its fair enough to open them imo though, should be fairly easy enough for them to pardon everyone at once
[11:07] <Macer> an apology? really?
[11:07] <Davespice> yeah Gordon Brown did it
[11:07] <Tachyon`> yes, gordon brown made one in parliament
[11:07] <Tachyon`> after a large petition
[11:07] <Davespice> 2009 wasn't it?
[11:07] <Tachyon`> I beleive so
[11:07] <Tachyon`> I think there's video on wikipedia, one moment
[11:07] * SolderPI (~SolderPI@80.4.146.163) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[11:08] <Macer> he was arrested for homosexuality wasnt he?
[11:08] <Davespice> here we go; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8249792.stm
[11:08] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:08] <Tachyon`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_turing#Government_apology_and_pardon_support
[11:08] <Tachyon`> oh, no video
[11:08] <Macer> different times
[11:08] <Tachyon`> he was arrested after a burgler accused him of homosexuality, yes
[11:08] <Davespice> "gross indecency" was the offence I think
[11:08] <Emmycakes> Turing?
[11:09] <Tachyon`> yup
[11:09] <Tachyon`> and he was put on hormone treatments
[11:09] <Tachyon`> that among other things made him grow breasts
[11:09] <Davespice> he actually went to the police to complain about a burglar, and through the investigation they discovered the man was in Turings house because they were having a homosexual relationship
[11:09] <Davespice> and then the police's attention turned away from the burglary and towards Turing
[11:09] <Macer> wow
[11:09] <Macer> back then im surprised they didnt lobotomize him
[11:10] <Emmycakes> as someone who is gay and in tech, turings story strikes close to home =\
[11:10] <Davespice> there is a really good Channel 4 documentary about him, called Breaking the Code I think - it might still be available on 4Od
[11:10] <Emmycakes> hormones or jail time were his options, he chose hormones and became depressed and killed himself
[11:10] <Tachyon`> ah, I'll have to see that
[11:10] <Macer> sounds like a scene from downton abbey heh
[11:10] <Davespice> there is actually some debate now about if it was actually suicide, as the apple was never tested for cyanide
[11:10] <Dyskette> Wiki's use of 'chemical castration' to characterise hormones is a bit misguided.
[11:11] <Tachyon`> indeed, he was essentially killed with bigotry after doing a lot to save us all in teh war
[11:11] <Emmycakes> Also also, yay for saving the turing papers and bletchley park
[11:11] <Tachyon`> aye, I can't beleive they considered knocking all that down
[11:11] <Davespice> yeah his work ended the war about 5 to 10 years early
[11:11] <Dyskette> Travesty.
[11:11] <Macer> and he gets an apology
[11:11] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:11] <Macer> crazy
[11:11] <Emmycakes> Dyskette: well it would have killed his sex drive, made him steril (not that it matters) and given him all kinds of grief =\
[11:11] * VoiDeT (~voidet@203.219.227.162) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:12] <Emmycakes> chemical castration isn't far from the truth
[11:12] <Macer> he should have gotten medals and a knighthood
[11:12] <Davespice> if any of you get down to London, the science museum has a huge exhibition about him right now
[11:12] <Emmycakes> Macer: yup
[11:12] <Davespice> they even have the bottle of pills he had to take, and his autopsy report
[11:12] <VoiDeT> Hey, trying to create a file on a hfs+ but it says file exists. ls -la and the file is not there
[11:12] <Emmycakes> Davespice: oh, I might go to london soon
[11:12] <Dyskette> Emmycakes: I know exactly what estrogen does - I took some not half an hour ago. Twice a day for a few years now ;)
[11:12] <nid0> Macer: you know he has got one right?
[11:12] <Davespice> the pilot ace computer is in there too
[11:12] <Emmycakes> Dyskette: same :)
[11:13] <Macer> nid0: they didnt take it away?
[11:13] <nid0> no
[11:13] <Macer> oh
[11:13] <Dyskette> And yeah, it can cause impotence and reduce libido pretty strongly, but chemical castration means something pretty specific, and even full-blown HRT ain't it.
[11:13] <Macer> well. my mistake
[11:14] <Davespice> the problem with a man taking estrogen is that it kills off testosterone and that is a hormone that is needed to regulate a mans brain, so once he lost it - his mind became completly muddled and he could no longer think through technical problems like he used to
[11:14] <Tachyon`> oh wow, I had no idea it had that effect -.-
[11:14] <Emmycakes> Davespice: that effect is transient
[11:14] <Davespice> and I would suggest that this is what may have contributed to him becoming suicidal
[11:14] <Emmycakes> but very annoying
[11:14] <Davespice> oh dies it go away?
[11:14] <Davespice> does*
[11:14] <Emmycakes> yes
[11:14] <Tachyon`> that and everyone knowing he was gay in that time probably didn't help
[11:15] <Dyskette> Davespice: more likely it would've been to do with the lowered libido, and suddenly body dysmorphia, and so on.
[11:15] <Davespice> right, how long do you need for that?
[11:15] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[11:15] <Dyskette> Davespice: estrogen doesn't really muddle your brain.
[11:15] <Dyskette> Otherwise, how would women think?
[11:15] <Dyskette> :P
[11:15] <Emmycakes> Davespice: 6 months-ish, maybe more
[11:15] <Emmycakes> it's just the brain having a "WTF" moment
[11:15] <Dyskette> And that;s hardly universal.
[11:15] <Davespice> Dyskette: I meant with context of being a man...
[11:15] <Macer> you know youre gifted when you swap notes with einstien
[11:15] <Macer> heh
[11:16] <Dyskette> Davespice: it doesn't matter. It's not like male and female brains are substantially different in terms of how they operate.
[11:16] * S0-2 (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0)
[11:16] <Emmycakes> Davespice: yea, he would have recovered from the brain fog, but the depression and dysphoria would have made it hard to get motivated
[11:17] <Davespice> if you watch the documentary it explains what I was talking about; http://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-greatest-codebreaker
[11:17] * Davespice nods
[11:17] <Emmycakes> I'm going to go back to work now :)
[11:17] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:17] <Dyskette> Davespice: there are a lot of misconceptions about hormone treatments and things, and that docu wasn't great for clearing any of that up, exactly.
[11:18] <Dyskette> Davespice: no doubt, if you aren't trans, getting cross-gender hormone treatments would suck, and make you miserable, but it's not because it makes your brain not function right.
[11:18] <hyppias> anyone tried to run writer (libreoffice) on a Pi-B? does that work fast enough?
[11:18] <Davespice> I'm not sure the time between when he started taking the pills and when he died actually...
[11:19] <Dyskette> Davespice: more than two years between the trial and his death
[11:19] <Emmycakes> I also don't think they were gentle with his dosage
[11:19] <Dyskette> Davespice: and he was given synthetic estrogen injections for a year
[11:20] <Dyskette> Davespice: so there'd be about a year from the end of his 'treatment' and his suicide
[11:20] <Davespice> crikey, I think it did say what his dosage was in the science museum
[11:20] <Davespice> I took a photo on my phone I think, I'll check if I still have it
[11:21] <Emmycakes> he did become an outcast though sadly :(
[11:21] <Davespice> damn, I only have pics of the pilot ace computer and some engima machines
[11:22] <Dyskette> Yeah, the social dynamics of the time were hardly wonderfully accepting of gay people.
[11:22] <Davespice> but guys, I would really reccomend a visit to the science museum if you're a fan of Turing, I spent about an hour and a half in there
[11:24] <Emmycakes> >_>
[11:24] <dexta> morningz
[11:25] <ShiftPlusOne> 'morning, dexta
[11:25] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:26] <gordonDrogon> Hm. must finish my enigma emulator once day.
[11:26] <Emmycakes> me too!
[11:26] * Datalink|Elsewhe is now known as Datalink
[11:26] <gordonDrogon> Bletchley Park is worth a visit, but I think it's a bit overpriced, but seeing it once it prorbably worth it.
[11:27] <gordonDrogon> however The National Museum of Computing is much more worthy of a visit if you're going to BP.
[11:27] <gordonDrogon> cheaper too - just don't pay the BP admission fee.
[11:27] * Datalink is now known as Datalink|rebooti
[11:27] <gordonDrogon> who wants to see moundy old enigmas when you can see WITCH, etc.
[11:27] * VoiDeT (~voidet@203.219.227.162) Quit (Quit: VoiDeT)
[11:28] * PKodon (kvirc@unaffiliated/pkodon) Quit (Quit: Oooh, pretty, what happens when I ....?)
[11:31] * Datalink|rebooti (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[11:35] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[11:35] <Emmycakes> well, my company worked hard on making sure Bletchley park doesn't close so I'd be happy to pay the admission fee :)
[11:35] <nid0> well the museum also has the rebuilt colossus
[11:36] <Datalink> ugh, why is my computer and network acting like they're made of pure lag
[11:39] <Datalink> brb
[11:39] * tdy_ (~tim@piscataway.als.uiuc.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:40] * TomWij (~TomWij@gentoo/developer/tomwij) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[11:44] * Datalink (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[11:46] * Datalink|Elsewhe is now known as Datalink
[11:47] <Datalink> talked with my ISP, went through their 'idiot firewall' aka the automated testing... talked with a tech after a bit... "there's an outage in your area, I'm surprised you're connected at all."
[11:47] <Datalink> could possibly be why my internet's a bit slugish.
[11:48] * TomWij (~TomWij@gentoo/developer/tomwij) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[11:59] * Bl1tter (~a@24.74.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:00] * BramN (~BramN@80.65.105.229) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[12:03] * qlex (~Wojtek@adq75.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:03] * qlex says hi
[12:04] * double-you (~Miranda@178-26-159-95-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:04] <Emmycakes> hi
[12:05] <qlex> dropping by this channel every now and then to see what's new
[12:05] * BramN (~BramN@80.65.105.229) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:06] <qlex> been trying to find out if the x hardware accellerated project is finished
[12:06] <qlex> i think it was simon who is involved in this ?
[12:06] <gordonDrogon> might be better off reading the forums too.
[12:07] <gordonDrogon> sounds like it may never be finished...
[12:08] <qlex> gordonDrogon: i seem to lost the thread url - but i think this was about x Server environment - is this the same as standard X for raspbian "standard" users ?
[12:08] <gordonDrogon> just remember that with Bletchley Park, the BP+Enigmas exhibits are *separate* to TNMoC and you need to pay for each one separetly. Personally I'll not be paying to see the BP exhibits again but I will support TNMoC.
[12:08] <qlex> creating a digital signage system for public transport buses..
[12:08] <qlex> wanted to use Rpi, but currently using APC and other boards running Android
[12:08] <gordonDrogon> qlex, Hm. I'd need to search for the thread, but there was an update recently (a month or so back).
[12:08] * BramN (~BramN@80.65.105.229) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:09] <gordonDrogon> I don't see why you'd need accelerated X for simple signage...
[12:09] <qlex> u remember which section was it in ? graphics ?
[12:09] <qlex> well, i cant use omxplayer
[12:09] <qlex> either playing video directly in browser or VLC player inside of the X environemtn
[12:09] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[12:10] <gordonDrogon> Ah, video. ok.
[12:10] <qlex> i heard somewhere that Rpi will proably never support VLC for this ?
[12:10] <qlex> brb
[12:11] <gordonDrogon> who knows. it's not an area I'm really that into right now.
[12:11] * DexterLB (~dex@79-100-25-191.btc-net.bg) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:12] * h0cin (~h0cin@unaffiliated/h0cin) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:13] <gordonDrogon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21588419 <- Titled Raspberry Pi and the rise of small computers
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[12:20] * linuxthefish is now known as linuxthefish`
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[12:21] * steve_rox (~steve@82-69-127-162.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:27] <qlex> cool article
[12:29] * jfmherokiller1 (~chatzilla@75-131-65-170.static.slid.la.charter.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[12:30] <Davespice> I'm loving the little pic of Eben under where it says 'Developing demand' - he looks about a smug as is possible for a human being
[12:32] <double-you> is this a bendable sd card adapter on the picture?
[12:33] <Datalink> double-you, an SD/USB card, so you don't need an SD reader
[12:33] <Datalink> yeah, that is not a press photo for that story
[12:34] <double-you> Datalink: http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66100000/png/_66100234_pi.png
[12:35] <gordonDrogon> I thought it was just a fancy miniSD adapter.
[12:35] <SwK> i like the little micro sd adapters adafruit sells
[12:35] <Datalink> no, they're SD cards with USB connections on the other side
[12:36] <Datalink> if you look, there's a section that doesn't have hinges in the middle, about the width of a USB port
[12:36] <mjr> 13:29 < jjaakkol> ja muuhun ei tartte koskea
[12:36] <mjr> oops
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> http://dx.com/p/flucard-sd-memory-card-w-wi-fi-for-camera-white-4gb-162942
[12:36] <mjr> this kinda thing: http://www.engadget.com/2005/01/06/sandisk-ces-sd-card-with-built-in-usb-adapter/
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> smaller Linux box
[12:36] <gordonDrogon> Ah right.
[12:37] * hyppias (hyppias@5353041A.cm-6-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit ()
[12:37] <double-you> there we go http://www.telefon.de/images/out550/sandisk_ultra2_sd_plus_1gb.jpg
[12:37] <double-you> you're right
[12:40] <Datalink> I try to give that illusion when I can
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[13:17] <navaati> hi
[13:20] <navaati> i've got some kind of hardware problems with my raspi, after a variable time (a few hours to a few seconds, and these days it's mors often seconds) it freezes, ie ssh link goes down, if connected hdmi goes black and all leds go off except the red one
[13:21] * keen_commander (~xsrc@unaffiliated/keen-commander/x-9149402) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:21] <Firehopper> how hot is it? and are you overclocking it?
[13:21] <navaati> i verified the voltage on TP1 and TP2, it's ok
[13:21] <navaati> no, no OC
[13:21] * falk0n (~falk0n@a81-84-120-249.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:21] <navaati> not really hot
[13:21] <Firehopper> still how hot is it? do a vcgencmd measure_temp
[13:22] <Firehopper> have you tried starting from a fresh os?
[13:22] <navaati> i tired to put it on the freezer for a few minutes and it froze even quicker
[13:23] <navaati> ah, didn't know this command, i'll try it (but i'm not at home atm)
[13:23] <SgrA> The RPi is good till 80 C, never seen it cross 55 C myself.
[13:23] <navaati> the os is a rapbian with all updates done
[13:24] <navaati> i could try to reflash the sd, yeah...
[13:25] * tinti (~tinti@pdpc/supporter/student/tinti) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:25] <Firehopper> and what model rpi is it
[13:25] <Firehopper> start with a fresh sd, dont update it. and see if it still does it
[13:25] <Firehopper> try a different os as well
[13:26] <navaati> it's a model B from RS
[13:26] <Firehopper> model 2?
[13:26] <navaati> the one with 512MB
[13:26] <Firehopper> okay. :)
[13:27] * Firehopper has a version 2.0e model b
[13:27] <Firehopper> so mine was made by sony
[13:27] <navaati> (with samsung RAM i think)
[13:27] <Firehopper> mine Is samsung ram too I think
[13:28] <Firehopper> I havent had a crash on mine, but then the most daring thing I've done is setup the k002 slice of pi expansion board.
[13:29] <navaati> hhhmmm, now you say it, actually the problem may have appeared after a raspbian kernel update... not sure tho
[13:29] <Firehopper> wifi is working great, I just think I'm gonna have to put heatsink's on mine.. idle 46C ish
[13:29] <Firehopper> with wifi
[13:30] <navaati> wifi ? how do you get it ? usb NIC ?
[13:30] <Firehopper> currently I just have it sitting on my pc's top facing 200mm fan. so its around 32c right now
[13:30] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:30] <Firehopper> yeah I have a ebay purchased USB dongle.. cost me $10
[13:30] * Klapo (~Klapo@maroon.sored.pl) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[13:31] * phorce1_1ome (~gvl2@pdpc/supporter/active/phorce1) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:31] <Firehopper> plugged it in, started X and used the wifi config thing, and it just works..
[13:31] <navaati> great
[13:31] <Firehopper> it loads automaticly on boot..
[13:31] * Alt_of_Ctrl (~Alt_of_Ct@bl14-106-55.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:31] <Firehopper> I didnt even tell it to do that :) but it does..
[13:31] <Firehopper> so :)
[13:32] <Firehopper> I dont even need a keyboard/monitor :)
[13:32] <navaati> got 2 go, thanks for the advices, will try these tonight
[13:32] <Firehopper> okay
[13:32] <navaati> bye
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[13:34] <Emmycakes> I wonder what kind of qps I can get out of a raspberry pi >_>
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[13:38] * Simooon (~simon@h196.natout.aau.dk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:39] * Zespre (~starbops@140-113-123-194.Dorm13.NCTU.edu.tw) Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[13:44] <gordonDrogon> qps?
[13:45] <Emmycakes> queries per second
[13:45] * quaisi (~simon@host-92-21-41-235.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[13:45] <gordonDrogon> oh, into a DB of some sorts?
[13:46] <Emmycakes> just RPC stuff
[13:46] * Zespre (~starbops@140-113-123-194.Dorm13.NCTU.edu.tw) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:47] <Emmycakes> blargh, forgot to rebuild server before restart >_<
[13:48] * m3xican (~m3xican@83-244-215-254.cust-83.exponential-e.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:00] * cityLights (~nivw@bzq-218-29-26.cablep.bezeqint.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:00] <cityLights> hi
[14:01] <cityLights> is anyone here using btrfs on the pi?
[14:01] * LWK (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:01] <cityLights> I am using gentoo , and seek to convert from my ext3 to btrfs
[14:02] <dwatkins> What advantage does brtfs have over ext3, cityLights?
[14:02] <dwatkins> btrfs, even
[14:02] <cityLights> butter fs has snapshots
[14:03] <dwatkins> handy
[14:03] <cityLights> and data has DIF
[14:03] <cityLights> so every data you write is verified on read
[14:04] <cityLights> but I only found folks asking for it on the forum
[14:04] <dwatkins> well btrfs isn't listed in my raspbian's /proc/filesystems, so you'd probably have to compile it etc.
[14:04] <cityLights> maybe someone is using it here
[14:04] <dwatkins> I'm on raspbian, though
[14:04] <cityLights> I saw it was added to arc
[14:05] * Crenn-NAS (~Crenn@60-241-72-121.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:05] <cityLights> well, I guess I need to google more, as installing it on 32bit and small system is an issue
[14:06] * rideh (~rideh@rrcs-97-78-213-114.se.biz.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:06] <cityLights> https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/FAQ#if_your_device_is_small
[14:09] <cityLights> can pi boot from GPT?
[14:09] <gordonDrogon> probably only of academic interest on the Pi. I'l sticking to ext4.
[14:09] <mjr> really doubt GPT
[14:09] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[14:09] <cityLights> ext4 is not so quick with small/spare files
[14:09] <cityLights> and I use a lot of these
[14:09] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:10] <gordonDrogon> maybe Pi sin't the best device for you then..
[14:10] <cityLights> oh, its fine
[14:11] * Crenn-NAS (~Crenn@60-241-72-121.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:14] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:15] * Jck_true (~Jcktrue@unaffiliated/jcktrue/x-390518) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:16] <Datalink> cityLights, I would recommend an external HD over an SD card if you have to do a lot of IO
[14:16] <Datalink> er file IO
[14:16] * doomy__ (~doomy@client218-131.wireless.umu.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[14:18] * doomy__ (~doomy@client218-131.wireless.umu.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:18] <Datalink> gordonDrogon, I've found a fun cable... an old parallel port cable from an AT era computer has the same connector as the Pi P1 breakout cables I have
[14:20] * markit (~marco@88-149-177-66.v4.ngi.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:21] <gordonDrogon> Datalink, ok - just don't cross the wires :)
[14:23] * doomy__ (~doomy@client218-131.wireless.umu.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[14:23] <Datalink> gordonDrogon, of course, looks like I'd have everything except pin CE1, aka P1-13
[14:23] <gordonDrogon> why not that one?
[14:23] <gordonDrogon> it's one of the SPI pins, so you might never use it though...
[14:23] * Crenn-NAS (~Crenn@60-241-72-121.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:25] <Datalink> pinter ports are 25 pins, the connector is 26 pin... the ribbon was 25 conductor as a result, so mises the last pin, which tested to be 13
[14:26] * pecorade (~pecorade@host19-253-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:26] * DK-MODE (~DK-MODE@149.241.159.171) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:27] <gordonDrogon> ok
[14:31] * Caleb (~Caleb@archlinux/op/caleb) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:36] * Firehopper (~Firehoppe@pool-71-175-194-74.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:39] * znode (~znode@59.38.9.11) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] * m3xican (~m3xican@83-244-215-254.cust-83.exponential-e.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] <gordonDrogon> or you could go our & buy a cobbler cable :)
[14:41] * shurizzle (~shura@unaffiliated/shurizzle) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:42] * doomy__ (~doomy@client218-131.wireless.umu.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:42] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:42] * teff (~teff@client-80-1-167-226.bsh-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:44] <Datalink> I have one
[14:44] <Datalink> just saying I have a hackable too :P
[14:46] <gordonDrogon> :)
[14:46] <gordonDrogon> my first one was an old floppy cable.
[14:50] * znode (~znode@59.38.9.11) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[14:55] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:00] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:03] * teff (~teff@client-80-1-167-226.bsh-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:03] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@5aca56e7.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o ReggieUK
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[15:04] * audiodef (~quassel@pool-71-191-172-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:08] * _cheney (~cheney@nat.sierrabravo.net) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
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[15:12] * matejv (~matej@188-230-133-101.dynamic.t-2.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[15:42] * rideh (~rideh@rrcs-97-78-213-114.se.biz.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[15:43] * scummos (~sven@p4FDCFB4B.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:43] * Caleb (~Caleb@archlinux/op/caleb) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
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[15:47] * pecorade (~pecorade@host19-253-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:50] * home (~home@unaffiliated/home) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[16:30] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[16:33] * tripleXXX (~bizarro_1@221.Red-193-152-191.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:35] * bizarro_1 (~bizarro_1@55.Red-88-19-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:40] * Mensch-Maschine (~gilbert@87.89.133.84) Quit (Quit: Mensch-Maschine)
[16:41] * mpmc is now known as mpmc|Away
[16:42] * mundofr (~mundofr@85-18-50-180.ip.fastwebnet.it) Quit (Quit: mundofr)
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[16:46] * ExeciN (nicexe@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-uzbttncxmvvwlxvw) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:58] * beardedninja (~beardedni@83.140.123.162) Quit (Quit: beardedninja)
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[17:00] <Emmycakes> I'm so bored@!
[17:01] * jar_ (~jmogharb@mo-76-0-41-177.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:03] <TAFB_afk> aww Emmycakes *hugs*
[17:03] <TAFB_afk> nothin super crazy you can do with your Pi? :)
[17:05] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:08] * matejv (~matej@tm.78.153.58.66.dc.cable.static.telemach.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:08] * DK-MODE (~DK-MODE@149.241.159.171) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:09] <tomswiggers> did anyone suceeded setting up synergy on raspberry?
[17:09] * mdim (~user@c-98-202-219-86.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[17:10] * linuxthefish` is now known as linuxthefish
[17:11] * [SkG] (~sconde@unaffiliated/skg/x-897332) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:11] * Armand (~martin@87-194-165-154.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:13] * Cymerc (~Clint@ip65-47-117-18.z117-47-65.customer.algx.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:13] <Cymerc> woot
[17:13] * _Caleb_ (~Caleb@archlinux/op/caleb) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:13] <Cymerc> back
[17:13] <Cymerc> let see whose here
[17:13] <TAFB_afk> i'm here, physically but not mentally
[17:13] * Sakyl (~Sakyl@95-91-160-158-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:14] <Cymerc> lol
[17:14] <Emmycakes> hi
[17:14] <Cymerc> hi emmycakes
[17:14] <Cymerc> whats new with the PI?
[17:14] <Cymerc> :D
[17:14] <Emmycakes> TAFB_afk: *hug* no not really =\
[17:14] <Cymerc> anybody tried anything new :D
[17:15] <Cymerc> im going to drop my PI in the water
[17:15] <IT_Sean> O_O
[17:15] <Cymerc> and see how tough it is :D
[17:15] <Cymerc> and get it running :D
[17:15] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[17:15] <Cymerc> jk
[17:15] <Emmycakes> ...
[17:15] <Cymerc> i love my pi too much i wont do that :P
[17:15] <Emmycakes> if you don't power it afterwards it should be fine
[17:15] <Cymerc> hi IT :)
[17:15] <Cymerc> ;) indeed Emmy :)
[17:15] <Emmycakes> just stick it in a box of raw rice
[17:15] <Cymerc> lol;
[17:15] <gerrynjr> Cymerc: run it in mineral oil and nothing bad will happen
[17:15] <Cymerc> i love RIC :P
[17:16] <Cymerc> i will try OLIVE oil
[17:16] <Cymerc> its healthier
[17:16] <gerrynjr> nooo
[17:16] <Cymerc> calories free
[17:16] <Cymerc> :D
[17:16] * Emmycakes facepalms
[17:16] <gerrynjr> it needs to be nonconductive
[17:16] <Cymerc> roger that
[17:16] <Cymerc> gerryn
[17:16] <Cymerc> its seesm when i connect my usb keyboard
[17:16] <Cymerc> its lagging
[17:16] <Cymerc> and my usb mouse
[17:17] <Cymerc> like its not getting enough power
[17:17] <gerrynjr> I think if you think long and hard, you will find it is not the pi that is lagging, but you
[17:17] <Cymerc> you know how you type or you move your mouse
[17:17] <Cymerc> it seems slower reaction
[17:17] <gerrynjr> </joke>
[17:17] <Cymerc> i know im lagging lots :P
[17:17] <Cymerc> lmao
[17:17] <Cymerc> <``` NOOBZ
[17:17] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:17] <Cymerc> u know like that movie NOOBZ
[17:18] <Emmycakes> I'm confused
[17:18] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[17:18] <Cymerc> Well when you power up your pi
[17:18] <Cymerc> so you move your mouse
[17:19] * neilr (~neilr@54.25.187.81.in-addr.arpa) Quit ()
[17:19] <Cymerc> your pointed should react immidietly
[17:19] <Cymerc> but it is not
[17:19] <Emmycakes> check top
[17:19] <Cymerc> check top ?
[17:19] <Cymerc> what do you mean Emmycakes ?
[17:19] <hellsing> the pi can became quite hot when under sun exposure: idle, no sun (room temp 22?c) core at 42?c, with sun 53?c !
[17:19] <Emmycakes> top is a command line cpu profiling tool
[17:19] <Cymerc> a sec let me get pencil and paper to write what you tell me
[17:20] <Cymerc> lol
[17:20] <hellsing> and we are in winter
[17:20] <Cymerc> whats the synthax +
[17:20] <Emmycakes> man top
[17:20] <Cymerc> ok i look into it
[17:20] <Cymerc> roger that
[17:20] <Cymerc> got it
[17:21] * t3ch (~t3ch@unaffiliated/t3ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:23] <Emmycakes> D:
[17:23] <Cymerc> emmycakes
[17:23] <Emmycakes> I want these tests to finish!
[17:23] <Cymerc> what test ?
[17:23] <Cymerc> u taking online class ?
[17:23] <Emmycakes> no, integration tests
[17:24] <TAFB_afk> winter here too :( view out the window this morning :( http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/72660_10151552351558109_2133868905_n.jpg
[17:25] <Emmycakes> TAFB_afk: where are you located?
[17:25] <Cymerc> nice
[17:25] <TAFB_afk> near toronto, ontario, canada
[17:25] <Cymerc> i dont know what that mean
[17:25] <Cymerc> but i think i know thats a software thingy
[17:25] <Cymerc> :D
[17:25] <Cymerc> hehehe
[17:26] <Cymerc> cannuck
[17:26] <Cymerc> i love toronto
[17:26] <TAFB_afk> tru dat
[17:26] <Emmycakes> Cymerc: automated software quality testing
[17:26] <TAFB_afk> toronto is great, especially if you like shopping :)
[17:27] <Cymerc> ppl , food , culture
[17:27] <Cymerc> FOOD
[17:27] <Cymerc> i love the FOOD
[17:27] <Cymerc> dont care much for shopping
[17:27] <Cymerc> lol
[17:27] <TAFB_afk> i'm a picky eater, lol. nothing hot, no seafood, etc ;)
[17:28] * Bochi (bochi@nat/novell/x-xsddrnmrcybvvclx) Quit (Quit: Adee)
[17:29] <Cymerc> i m not picky
[17:29] <Emmycakes> blargh, no pretty nat url for me
[17:29] <Cymerc> i ll EAT ANYTHING!!!!!
[17:29] <Cymerc> as long it doesnt kill me or make me SICK :D
[17:29] <TAFB_afk> *puke*
[17:29] <Emmycakes> I'm not very picky but can't ever make up my mind so my gf always chooses dinner :D
[17:30] <Cymerc> brb my boss is callng me :(
[17:31] <Emmycakes> <3 spicy food though
[17:31] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:33] <gordonDrogon> I had curry for lunch.
[17:34] * piprogramming (~feasty@host81-149-137-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:35] <Emmycakes> nom curry
[17:36] * Orion_ (~Orion_@205.118.211.29) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:38] <Matt> curry is most excellent
[17:38] <Matt> I might have thai for lunch
[17:46] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@unaffiliated/hopsy) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:47] * cityLights (~nivw@bzq-218-29-26.cablep.bezeqint.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:47] * Datalink stares at an IR circuit schematic, and his pile fo 470 ohm and 330 ohm resistors and grumbles
[17:48] <Hopsy> hi what does more matter dBi or power?
[17:49] <pronto> use a car battery
[17:49] <Hopsy> yeah that will help
[17:50] * steve_rox (~steve@82-69-127-162.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:50] <Cymerc> hi pronto
[17:50] <Cymerc> emmy
[17:50] * AndrevS (~andre_bk@2001:980:55e0:1:20f:eaff:fe58:28f8) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:50] <Cymerc> curry is good
[17:50] <pronto> hi hi
[17:51] <Cymerc> i just had tom yam from a thai restaurant matt
[17:51] <Cymerc> where is
[17:51] <Cymerc> what is his name
[17:51] <Cymerc> ughh ifrogot
[17:51] <TomWij> Hmm, there's food called after my name?
[17:51] <Cymerc> yup
[17:51] <Cymerc> TOM YAM
[17:51] * _Caleb_ (~Caleb@archlinux/op/caleb) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[17:51] <Cymerc> google it
[17:51] <Cymerc> its the best Thai Broth EVER!!!!!!!!!
[17:51] * PReDiToR (~PReDiToR@unaffiliated/preditor) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:51] <Cymerc> Hot to the max
[17:51] <Cymerc> SPicy!!!!!
[17:51] <Cymerc> woot
[17:52] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:52] <Hopsy> TomWij: are you from the netherlands?
[17:52] <TomWij> Close, Belgium.
[17:53] <Hopsy> ow okay
[17:55] * ninjak (~ninjak@77.239.137.142) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[17:55] <Cymerc> nice i want to visit Belgium
[17:55] <Cymerc> very pretty country
[17:55] * Kaboon (kaboon@524A5520.cm-4-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:55] <Cymerc> EMMYCAKES!!!!!! holaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[17:55] * Sakyl (~Sakyl@95-91-160-158-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[17:56] * Cymerc (~Clint@ip65-47-117-18.z117-47-65.customer.algx.net) Quit (Quit: window 3)
[17:56] * sideone (~sideone@23.24.175.105) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:56] * sideone (~sideone@23.24.175.105) has left #raspberrypi
[17:58] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] * martk100 (~martin@host-2-103-173-43.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] * Pitel_IPEX (~pitel@gatekeeper.bm.ipex.cz) Quit (Quit: (????????????)???????????????)
[17:59] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:59] <martk100> Is there any realistic way to get a touchscreen working on xbmc without having to compile from source?
[18:00] <applegekko> yea have someone else compile it for you
[18:00] * NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD28B8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:01] <martk100> applegekko: Would you suggest someone?
[18:01] <applegekko> why cant up compile it yourself?
[18:01] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@149.241.236.236) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:03] * satellit_e (~satellit@72.0.185.15) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[18:03] * bortzmeyer (~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:4df0:bb5a:1adc:b525) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:03] <martk100> applegekko: I have just been looking at the following link:- http://www.engineering-diy.blogspot.ro/2013/02/raspberry-pi-raspbian-xbmc-and-egalax-7.html I think it may be beyond my ability.
[18:03] * Cymerc (~Clint@ip65-47-117-18.z117-47-65.customer.algx.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:04] <Cymerc> ok
[18:04] <Cymerc> ok
[18:04] <applegekko> email that chap, and ask him to make a image of his install :D
[18:04] <Cymerc> im hugry
[18:04] <Cymerc> what image ?
[18:04] <Cymerc> mmm
[18:04] <Cymerc> How many MAC user here ?
[18:04] <Cymerc> lol
[18:05] <ExeciN> Cymerc: of his SD card
[18:05] * neilr (~neilr@54.25.187.81.in-addr.arpa) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:05] <Cymerc> i see i see
[18:06] * Paraxial (~paraxial@217.40.247.105) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:06] * [[johnonymous]] (~johnonym@96-37-61-208.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:06] * tdy_ (~tim@piscataway.als.uiuc.edu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:06] <Cymerc> i like that name johnonymouse
[18:06] <Cymerc> lmao
[18:09] * [SLB]` is now known as [SLB]
[18:11] * Yachtsman (~Yachtsman@173.7.81.26) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:12] <Cymerc> ok
[18:15] * satellit_e (~satellit@72.0.185.15) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:16] <TomWij> Cymerc: Everyone here uses MAC. ^^
[18:16] <TomWij> (MAC vs Mac... :D)
[18:19] <Cymerc> lol
[18:19] <Cymerc> really
[18:19] <Cymerc> :*( now you make me feel like an outcast
[18:19] <Cymerc> im using puppylinux :(
[18:19] * comradekingu (~comradeki@109.108.219.28) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:20] <Cymerc> no im not using puppy lmao LOL
[18:20] * neilr (~neilr@54.25.187.81.in-addr.arpa) Quit ()
[18:21] <gordonDrogon> Hm. slow afternoon.
[18:22] * _Caleb_ (~Caleb@archlinux/op/caleb) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:23] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:23] * mike_t (~mike@95.67.202.129) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:24] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[18:24] * comradekingu (~comradeki@109.108.219.28) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:24] * tdy_ (~tim@piscataway.als.uiuc.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:25] <PReDiToR> Indeed.
[18:25] * nielsonm (~nielsonm@75-150-34-209-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:25] <PReDiToR> But on the upside I've got exim/dovecot/sasl working without errors.
[18:26] <gordonDrogon> I have sendmail/dovecot/sasl working without errors too.
[18:27] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:28] * quaisi (~simon@host-92-21-41-235.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:29] <PReDiToR> I gave postfix a shot. I guess I should really pare it down and use sendmail/dovecot. I believe sasl2-bin functionality is built into dovecot.
[18:30] <gordonDrogon> don't really know - I just apt-get install it :)
[18:31] <gordonDrogon> I usually compile my own sendmail though with sasl2 support for smtp-auth.
[18:31] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:31] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:32] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:32] <PReDiToR> If I was doing this one a powerful computer I'd be doing it the Gentoo way, but as you say; binary is so convenient for these machines.
[18:33] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[18:33] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:35] <gordonDrogon> probably more habit for me.
[18:35] <gordonDrogon> I got frustrated with debians sendmail years ago and I'd always compiled it on previous *nix boxes, so ...
[18:35] * werdna (~andrew@wikimedia/Werdna) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:38] <Datalink> gordonDrogon, do you know if we still have to do a kernel patch for lirc support?
[18:38] * ch3r3nk0v (~ch3r3nk0v@gateway/tor-sasl/ch3r3nk0v) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:39] * ddm (ddmor@129.237.196.32) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:40] <werdna> Hi! I'm getting some heavily distorted sound through Mopidy on my soft-float Raspi, even on a USB sound card (CM109 chipset). I'm wondering if anybody has any hints for dealing with poor sound quality in general (which is independent of whether I'm using a USB sound card or the onboard adapter). One thing that I've noticed, by the way, is that the CPU usage of the music playing app is >80%
[18:41] <linuxstb> werdna: Why are you using soft-float? And in what way is the sound quality poor?
[18:42] <werdna> I'm using soft-float because I've heard that libspotify only supports soft-float.
[18:42] * Cymerc (~Clint@ip65-47-117-18.z117-47-65.customer.algx.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:43] <werdna> The sound is distorted, it's almost as if somebody is running a chainsaw in the background whenever I press play.
[18:43] <gordonDrogon> Datalink, no idea really - i've never used lirc stuff...
[18:43] <werdna> and many of the frequencies are missing.
[18:43] <Datalink> dang, just wired up an IR LED and need to test it otu
[18:43] <Datalink> out*
[18:44] <IT_Sean> Datalink: and this is a problem?
[18:44] <IT_Sean> point a cheap webcam at it, or use the camera on your phone. Many of the cheaper cameras do not have IR filters... you should see it light up that way.
[18:45] <PReDiToR> Your phone will probably work for that too Datalink
[18:45] <Datalink> IT_Sean, I did that test
[18:45] * Weaselweb (~quassel@77-64-181-50.dynamic.primacom.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:45] <Datalink> I'm at 'will it control a device' which requires actually setting up my IR blaster, aka lirc
[18:49] * Scriven (~nevirsc@S01060026f3c70320.vc.shawcable.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:50] * AndrevS (~andrevs@2001:610:1108:5011:225:b3ff:fec0:41e1) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:50] <werdna> Another question: If I've installed the soft-float version of Raspbian, am I able to change it to hard-float without reimaging my SD card?
[18:51] <IT_Sean> ooh
[18:51] <PReDiToR> Pretty much every program and utility is compiled differently between the two. But that would make an ACE project.
[18:51] <Datalink> ugh, lirc through gpio requires compiling >.<
[18:51] <IT_Sean> so, basically... no.
[18:52] <Datalink> kernel compiling
[18:52] <PReDiToR> Datalink: X-compile it on a nice fast machine. It shouldn't take more than 20 minutes.
[18:52] <Datalink> PReDiToR, plus environment setup...
[18:53] <PReDiToR> Yeah, but once that's done you're sorted for any future compilation you might need.
[18:56] * ukgamer|away is now known as ukgamer
[18:57] * ]DMackey[ (DMackey@cpe-74-71-43-184.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:58] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:01] * t0mab (~t0mab@stakhanov.u-strasbg.fr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[19:02] * evilsk4ter (~evilsk4te@187.60.66.11) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:04] * aphadke (~Adium@c-71-198-6-18.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:05] * djuggler (~djuggler@doug.ws.utk.edu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[19:10] * ryanteck (~ryan@fsf/member/Ryanteck) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:11] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@unaffiliated/hopsy) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:15] * werdna (~andrew@wikimedia/Werdna) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:16] * falk0n (~falk0n@a81-84-120-249.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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[19:20] * BurtyB (chris@murphy1.8086.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:23] * tdy_ (~tim@piscataway.als.uiuc.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:24] * KiltedPi (~Nbane@host-92-30-96-71.as13285.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[19:25] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:26] * Scriven (~nevirsc@S01060026f3c70320.vc.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:28] * werdna (~andrew@wikimedia/Werdna) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:29] * CyMerc (~Clint@ip65-47-117-18.z117-47-65.customer.algx.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:29] <CyMerc> oh yeah
[19:29] * ryanteck (~ryan@fsf/member/Ryanteck) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[19:29] <CyMerc> babyy
[19:29] <CyMerc> groovvyyy baby
[19:29] <CyMerc> guess whose back ...
[19:30] <ParkerR> CyMerc, Hello
[19:30] <CyMerc> MEEE!!!1
[19:30] <IT_Sean> ...
[19:30] <CyMerc> hi parker
[19:30] <CyMerc> Hi IT_SEAN :D
[19:30] * ryanteck (~ryan@fsf/member/Ryanteck) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:30] <CyMerc> i really want a macboo pro
[19:30] <CyMerc> yes MACBOO Pro
[19:33] * pkrnj (~pkrnj@bas1-montreal47-1242477915.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:33] <Datalink> hm, what a RPi Linux that offers lirc support?
[19:34] <CyMerc> Cymerc Pi ver 1.0
[19:34] <CyMerc> look it up :D
[19:34] <CyMerc> jk jk
[19:34] <CyMerc> im not sure
[19:34] <CyMerc> try google it
[19:34] <CyMerc> i bet you find the answer
[19:35] * edve (~edve@modemcable062.4-22-96.mc.videotron.ca) has left #raspberrypi
[19:35] <IT_Sean> that's a bit less than helpful, isn't it?
[19:35] <CyMerc> :( indeed
[19:35] <CyMerc> nobody answer him
[19:36] <IT_Sean> If you don't know the answer to something, telling someone to "google it" is a bit offputting, don't you think?
[19:36] <CyMerc> :*( so i do my best
[19:36] <CyMerc> sorry
[19:36] <IT_Sean> If someone asks a question, and you don't know the answer, just don't reply. Telling someone to google it is not the right way to handle that.
[19:37] <Viper-7> heh Datalink :P
[19:38] <PReDiToR> I wonder if catb.org has a section on how to answer questions intelligently?
[19:38] <IT_Sean> I think that requires intelligence.
[19:41] <NullMoogleCable> whats the default root password for raspian?
[19:43] <jameswhite> NullMoogleCable: just log in as pi and sudo su -, and change it
[19:43] * NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD28B8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[19:44] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] * JesseC (~JesseCWor@wsip-98-175-20-126.br.br.cox.net) Quit ()
[19:48] * tubadaz (~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/tubadaz) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] <Datalink> Viper-7, heh, heyya
[19:50] * Nik05_ (~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[19:51] <Viper-7> Datalink: erm, the guides i read suggest lirc is available in raspbian
[19:51] <Viper-7> http://alexba.in/blog/2013/01/06/setting-up-lirc-on-the-raspberrypi/
[19:52] <Viper-7> all seems pretty straight forward
[19:52] * Nik05_ (~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:52] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901:5604:a6ff:fea3:9861) Quit (Quit: Where's the Kaboom?)
[19:52] <Datalink> root@spindrift:~# modprobe lirc_rpi gpio_in_pin=12 gpio_out_pin=11
[19:52] <Datalink> FATAL: Module lirc_rpi not found.
[19:53] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[19:55] <Viper-7> did you install the lirc package from apt?
[19:56] <Viper-7> try rpi-update ?
[19:58] * samuel02 (~samuel02@c-46-162-87-154.cust.bredband2.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:58] * samuel02 (~samuel02@c-46-162-87-154.cust.bredband2.com) has left #raspberrypi
[20:01] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@37.96.38.229) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:03] * FR^2 (~frquadrat@farsquare.de) Quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer)
[20:05] * ldav15 (~ldavis@23.30.55.129) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[20:05] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:06] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:06] * ldav15 (~ldavis@23.30.55.129) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:10] * Madatnek (~Madatnek@c-b90ce255.035-188-7673743.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[20:10] <Datalink> Viper-7, running an OS update at the moment
[20:10] * mpmc|Away (~mpmc@unaffiliated/mpmc) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[20:11] * AeroNotix (~xeno@abob170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] * mpmc (~mpmc@unaffiliated/mpmc) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] * m8 (~mor@unaffiliated/m8) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:13] * arcanescu (925706ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.87.6.239) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:15] * KiltedPi (~Nbane@host-92-30-96-71.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:15] <dwatkins> Datalink: raspbmc has support for Infra Red remote controls, it might use lirc.
[20:21] * aphadke (~Adium@2620:101:8003:200:7195:a4fe:1484:dd46) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:23] * aphadke (~Adium@2620:101:8003:200:7195:a4fe:1484:dd46) has left #raspberrypi
[20:24] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
[20:25] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:26] * omucusosete (~emihalac@79.112.113.90) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:32] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
[20:34] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[20:35] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:36] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:36] * jdpond (~jdpond@mediawiki/jpond) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@108-252-136-39.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] * chupacabra (~michael@cpe-24-28-86-169.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:38] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:38] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:38] <Datalink> dwatkins, maybe, I'd have to look at it later
[20:39] * djp_ (djp@fsf/member/djp-) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:42] * thogue (~thogue@unaffiliated/thogue) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:43] <omucusosete> hello
[20:43] <omucusosete> does anyone have any experience with chroot-ing into a rpi image and running aptitude update from there ?
[20:43] <omucusosete> using qemu-arm-static ?
[20:44] * nils_2_ (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] * ryanteck (~ryan@fsf/member/Ryanteck) has left #raspberrypi
[20:45] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[20:47] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[20:48] * Kane (~Kane@110.32.197.77.rev.sfr.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:49] * nils_2_ is now known as nils_2
[20:50] * Xunie (~karl@unaffiliated/xunie) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:50] <Xunie> I got mine yesterday! :3
[20:56] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[20:57] * FR^2 (~fr@krlh-5f7370e5.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] * tkeranen (~tuukka@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c150-78.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:58] * XenGi_ is now known as XenGi
[21:02] <SwK> anyone experienced at pcb layout want to point out any screwups before I have osh park make these ? http://imgur.com/a/t0wzW
[21:03] * zokeber (~zokeber@unaffiliated/zokeber) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:09] <NullMoogleCable> http://wtfmoogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Time2PowerPI.png
[21:09] <NullMoogleCable> think people would want a power shield with soft power on off buttons and battery backed rtc?
[21:10] * Flexnard (~Flex@host-169-126-2-96.midco.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:10] * Satorin (~Satori@unaffiliated/satorin) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:11] <NullMoogleCable> designing with full power input protection up to 40 vdc
[21:12] <SwK> NullMoogleCable: that would be interesting
[21:14] <IT_Sean> that is kinda interesting.
[21:15] <IT_Sean> Gotta do it inexpensively, though,
[21:15] <NullMoogleCable> yes, im choosing parts very wisely
[21:15] * _cheney (~cheney@nat.sierrabravo.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:15] <mgottschlag> NullMoogleCable: is it possible to layout it in a way that it fits on top of the pi?
[21:15] <IT_Sean> Got an estimated cost?
[21:16] <NullMoogleCable> yes
[21:16] <NullMoogleCable> this was just a first rough layout
[21:16] <mgottschlag> (without sticking out on the side)
[21:16] * tdy_ (~tim@mobile-130-126-255-190.near.illinois.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] <NullMoogleCable> IT_Sean im looking at 20-25$ price range
[21:17] <SwK> thats probably good sweet spot on price
[21:17] <IT_Sean> Not bad
[21:17] <NullMoogleCable> and thats using a local pick an place board house down the street from me :)
[21:18] <SwK> nice
[21:18] <SwK> hey either of you guys take a look at that imgur url i posted? its renders from osh park on a design??? wondering if I am missing anything
[21:19] <SwK> NullMoogleCable: where can I find that outline of the RPi you have there
[21:19] <NullMoogleCable> I found it on google
[21:20] <IT_Sean> NullMoogleCable: that seems a good price range. $25 is about as much as i'd be willing to pay, personally. With the cost of a raspi at $35 (Model B), any more than 20ish would be a bit steep in my book.
[21:20] * Kaboon (kaboon@524A5520.cm-4-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit ()
[21:20] <ReggieUK> I've purchased boards from NullMoogleCable in the past, I can vouch for the quality he turns out
[21:20] * m3xican (~m3xican@83-244-215-254.cust-83.exponential-e.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:20] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:21] <NullMoogleCable> :)
[21:21] <NullMoogleCable> has anyone tried adding a second microsd card to a pi?
[21:21] <ReggieUK> not that I know of
[21:22] <NullMoogleCable> a new chalange has appeared!
[21:22] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:22] <IT_Sean> not sure how you would even start to do that, other than via a USB > SD adapter
[21:22] <NullMoogleCable> spi
[21:23] <IT_Sean> Ahh.
[21:23] <IT_Sean> I am not aware of anyone doing so.
[21:24] * DenBeiren (~Denbeiren@91.86.35.108) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:25] * bschwab (~bryan@c-67-188-153-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:26] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:27] * Borgso (~nirox@unaffiliated/borgso) Quit ()
[21:28] * idstam (~johan@c-1b7772d5.027-359-73746f23.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit ()
[21:31] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable119.94-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:34] <drag0nius> is it possible to connect raspberry pi to ~2 hdds?
[21:35] <drag0nius> i'm considering buying one to use instead of current server for network management/file sharing
[21:35] <demure> Anyone make use of the usb hub boards from http://www.pridopia.co.uk/ixx-rspi.html ?
[21:35] * pkrnj (~pkrnj@bas1-montreal47-1242477915.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[21:35] <nid0> drag0nius: it is, but the pi makes a very poor storage controller of any kind
[21:35] <dwatkins> drag0nius: you'd need a powered hub for starters, but the throughput wouldn't be very good, I suspect
[21:36] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] * navaati (58af60f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.175.96.240) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] <Torikun> Yahoo recruiter sent me a job description. In recent news of that company, hellz no! lol
[21:38] * teff (~teff@client-80-1-163-4.bsh-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:40] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[21:43] <Scriven> drag0nius, Certainly possible to do more than 2, it's just usb after all. But also what dwatkins and nid0 said.
[21:44] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:44] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:46] * blz (5a189fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.24.159.163) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:46] * omucusosete (~emihalac@79.112.113.90) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[21:46] <blz> Hello, I've gotten an `ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host` error when trying to connect via SSH. What can I do?
[21:49] * sixseven (~sixseven@202.137.244.157) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:49] * CRNorris (~colin@host-2-99-194-166.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:50] * pecorade (~pecorade@79.42.253.19) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:51] <Datalink> WOO update added lirc_rpi
[21:51] * navaati (58af60f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.175.96.240) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:51] * Orion__ (~Orion_@205.118.217.10) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:52] <blz> Anybody home?
[21:52] <IT_Sean> I'm not.
[21:53] <Torikun> oi
[21:53] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[21:53] <IT_Sean> Will be in about another hour or so, though. Still at work.
[21:53] <IT_Sean> oi
[21:54] * Orion_ (~Orion_@205.118.211.29) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:54] * zokeber (~zokeber@unaffiliated/zokeber) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[21:56] * martk100 (~martin@host-2-103-173-43.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:56] * RaycisCharles (RaycisChar@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit ()
[21:56] * c0nnaught (~c0nnaught@139.44.112.87.dyn.plus.net) has left #raspberrypi
[21:57] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:02] * Madatnek (~Madatnek@c-b90ce255.035-188-7673743.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:04] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:05] * grimjoey (~textual@195.159.104.51) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:05] <blz> oh whoops! Hello everyone =)
[22:06] <blz> So my pi keeps hanging on the keyboard configuration message when I connect via ssh
[22:06] <blz> then after some time I get a kernel panic (kernel:journal commit I/O error) before getting locked out of ssh with a "ssh_exchange_identification" error
[22:06] <blz> what gives?
[22:07] * Orion__ (~Orion_@205.118.217.10) Quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
[22:08] <ShadowJK> storage device vanished or errored before that message
[22:09] * pkrnj (~pkrnj@bas1-montreal47-1242477915.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:09] * booyaa (booyaa@23.21.172.67) has left #raspberrypi
[22:09] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[22:10] <blz> ShadowJK: it's reproducable every single time though. It doesn't seem like any of my devices have failed.
[22:10] * booyaa (booyaa@23.21.172.67) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:10] <blz> ShadowJK: And I'm also wodering why it hangs on the ssh configuration
[22:10] <blz> Do you think the two might be related?
[22:10] * tubadaz (~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/tubadaz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:11] <ShadowJK> read/write access to a malfunctioning area on connect?
[22:11] <grimjoey> I'm trying to edit a config file offline but I'm unable to access partition 2 on the sd card using os x. (I only have network access to terminal on the raspi, and after a change in network config it won't let me in). Any tips? It seems as though os x is unable to recognize a filesystem on the 2nd partition.
[22:11] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:11] <blz> ShadowJK: I'm not sure I understand your question
[22:12] <ShadowJK> was more of an open ended guess :)
[22:17] <grimjoey> whats the default filesystem for raspbian wheezy? (i've asked in #raspbian, but no one seems to be responding)
[22:17] <linuxstb> grimjoey: Yes, the second partition is ext4. Google "os x ext4" for some suggestions, but it doesn't seem straightforward.
[22:17] <grimjoey> linuxstb: ty
[22:18] * millerii (~pi@e218.ip3.netikka.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:19] * Lee- (~Lee@unaffiliated/lee-) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:19] <linuxstb> grimjoey: You don't have (and can't borrow/steal) a usb keyboard and hdmi TV?
[22:21] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@79.7.178.122) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] <grimjoey> the hdmi part is the problem. i have access to a projector, but seems to much of a hassle. i'll try accessing from linux via virtualbox
[22:23] * Neighbour (~neighbour@82.197.216.170) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:23] * c0nnaught (~c0nnaught@139.44.112.87.dyn.plus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] * c0nnaught (~c0nnaught@139.44.112.87.dyn.plus.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:24] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[22:25] <NullMoogleCable> ReggieUK i did it :)
[22:25] <NullMoogleCable> http://wtfmoogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pisd2.png
[22:25] <ech0s7> i'm tryng to send file over bluetooth to my Android phone (it's set as visible) with obexftp but i get error: http://ideone.com/Q007Bx
[22:27] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901:5604:a6ff:fea3:9861) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] * blz (5a189fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.24.159.163) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[22:27] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] <NullMoogleCable> can you tell i got lazy on the board?
[22:27] <ReggieUK> yeah :D
[22:28] <IT_Sean> you should never get lazy when doing layout work
[22:28] <IT_Sean> :p
[22:28] <ParkerR> NullMoogleCable, Haha
[22:28] * navaati (58af60f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.175.96.240) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:28] <NullMoogleCable> you get the base idea though
[22:28] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:29] * m8 (~mor@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:29] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:32] * Eliatrope (~speckius@212.113.107.78) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[22:35] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@108-252-136-39.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: pizthewiz)
[22:36] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@79.7.178.122) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[22:37] <Datalink> sudo irsend list "" ""
[22:37] <Datalink> irsend: could not connect to socket
[22:37] <Datalink> irsend: Connection refused
[22:37] <Datalink> sigh
[22:39] * quaisi (~simon@host-92-21-41-235.as13285.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[22:41] * tinti (~tinti@pdpc/supporter/student/tinti) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:42] * nielsonm (~nielsonm@75-150-34-209-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[22:44] * larsks (~lars@madhatter.seas.harvard.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:44] <PReDiToR> Wouldn't it be nice if you used a micro SD and RasPi Foundation let us boot from that one instead of the stupid sticky-out one?
[22:45] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@149.241.236.236) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:46] <nid0> there're loads of mod guides available to convert to microsd
[22:47] <nid0> https://www.modmypi.com/shop/raspberry-pi-micro-sd-card-adaptor
[22:47] <nid0> also that
[22:48] <gordonDrogon> http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/lowprofile-microsd-card-adapter-for-raspberry-pi-p-1153.html
[22:48] * markllama (mlamouri@nat/redhat/x-jztrwwnhlbzjfhys) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:48] <gordonDrogon> that too. there are several.
[22:49] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-114-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:50] * CyMerc (~Clint@ip65-47-117-18.z117-47-65.customer.algx.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:50] * FR^2 (~fr@krlh-5f7370e5.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Quit: und weg...)
[22:54] * ktcsoz (~ktcsoz@static-24-233-208-112.cpe.metrocast.net) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[22:57] <tdy_> while that's nice aesthetically, i don't think i'd like the microsd+adapter speeds
[22:57] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[22:57] <grimjoey> for anyone interested: i managed to do offline configuration on mac os by accessing the sd reader through linux via virtualbox and usage of "VBoxManage internalcommands createrawvmdk -filename diskfile.vmdk -rawdisk /dev/disk2s2". also had to set ownership: "sudo chown username /dev/disk2s2". don't mess with raw devices if you're scared of messing up your hard drive ;)
[22:57] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:57] <grimjoey> offline configuration of files on raspi sd disk that is
[22:58] <nid0> tdy_: the adaptor wont alter speed at all
[22:59] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@149.241.236.236) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:59] <gordonDrogon> I've been using a uSD in a full-size adapter for a while in one of my Pi's - it's not as fast, but I just assumed that's because its a crappy kingston one.
[22:59] <tdy_> well i have one (not low profile like these links) and it's really slow.. i guess it's the microsd card itself then
[23:00] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable119.94-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[23:01] * ktcsoz (~ktcsoz@static-24-233-208-112.cpe.metrocast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:01] <tdy_> i'm used to class 10 SD.. i don't even know what this microsd is.. it's unmarked
[23:02] <gordonDrogon> don't think the Pi can make any additional use of a c10 ..
[23:03] <tdy_> the C10s are definitely faster than my C4s
[23:03] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:03] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[23:03] * KiltedPi (~Nbane@host-92-30-96-71.as13285.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:04] * Crenn-NAS (~Crenn@60-241-72-121.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:04] <sixseven> I have 1x C10 and 1x C4 and anecdotally, the C10 is way faster for doing "stuff"
[23:04] <gordonDrogon> I have a c4 and a c6 that are identical speeds in the Pi.
[23:04] <Crenn-NAS> Has anyone had a problem with the ethernet dropping out completely and not reconnecting?
[23:05] <sixseven> Possibly a good C4 or a bad C6?
[23:05] <gordonDrogon> only when the cable falls out.
[23:05] <gordonDrogon> sandisk ultra's.
[23:05] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[23:05] <gordonDrogon> and the no-brand c4 from Farnell - turned out to be a sandisk ultra too.
[23:05] <gordonDrogon> all get 20MB/sec reads on the Pi.
[23:05] <gordonDrogon> the kingston c4's get 16MB/sec reads.
[23:06] <sixseven> Crenn-NAS used to in early days, not sure as changed sd, router, and cable for other reasons, and havent seen the problem since
[23:06] <Crenn-NAS> gordonDrogon: Cable was definately plugged in, which is the strange thing
[23:06] <gordonDrogon> Crenn-NAS, not poking about with the gpio are you?
[23:06] <ShadowJK> Sandisk ultra C4 from 2009 is faster than 2009 class 10 kingston. 2013 Sandisk class 4 is about 2-4 times slower for running an operating system than back in 2009
[23:06] <Crenn-NAS> Nope
[23:06] <Crenn-NAS> Not on this one
[23:06] <gordonDrogon> I think it just goes to show that SD card makers make it up as they go along ;-)
[23:08] <ShadowJK> Well, class rating is *minimum* speed, except for class 10 (iirc). Sandisk were just very conservative in 2009 and only guaranteed 4M, when card achieved 10-12M most of the time
[23:10] <ShadowJK> Also, class rating only applies to sequential write speed, which is only relevant for digital cameras, and there only applies for a single photo / video. Card will potentially be slower if taking multiple photos after eachother
[23:10] * crenn (~Crenn@60-241-72-121.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:10] * Crenn-NAS (~Crenn@60-241-72-121.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[23:11] <ShadowJK> And of course, sequential speeds are almost entirely irrelevant for running an operating system :)
[23:11] <crenn> And just happened again....
[23:12] <gordonDrogon> anything exciting in dmesg?
[23:12] <gordonDrogon> (or are you ssh'd into it headless...)
[23:13] <Torikun> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21588419
[23:15] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:15] * crenn (~Crenn@60-241-72-121.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:16] * Madatnek (~Madatnek@c-b90ce255.035-188-7673743.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:16] * ktcsoz (~ktcsoz@static-24-233-208-112.cpe.metrocast.net) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[23:17] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[23:18] * ktcsoz (~ktcsoz@static-24-233-208-112.cpe.metrocast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] * Crenn-NAS (~Crenn@60-241-72-121.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:19] <Crenn-NAS> gordonDrogon: Would a bad power supply cause the ethernet to drop out do you think?
[23:19] * unkle_george (~quassel@nat-wv.mentorg.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:19] * Madatnek (~Madatnek@c-b90ce255.035-188-7673743.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:20] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:20] * Kane (~Kane@110.32.197.77.rev.sfr.net) Quit (Quit: Night all o/)
[23:21] <gordonDrogon> Crenn-NAS, it's a possibility, although I just seen CD corruptions there...
[23:21] <gordonDrogon> Crenn-NAS, do the LEDs go out too?
[23:22] <Crenn-NAS> The ethernet LEDs yes, and the power LED seems dimmed
[23:22] <Crenn-NAS> Only other thing I can think of is the polyfuses
[23:24] * scummos (~sven@p4FDCFB4B.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[23:25] * vikorasmussen (~pi@212-71-88-168.dsl.no.powertech.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[23:26] <gordonDrogon> ah well, you know the score - stick a multimeter between TP1 & TP2 ...
[23:28] <Crenn-NAS> Don't know that one actually
[23:28] <Crenn-NAS> Is that measuring the 5V rail?
[23:28] * ktcsoz (~ktcsoz@static-24-233-208-112.cpe.metrocast.net) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[23:28] * keen_commander (~xsrc@unaffiliated/keen-commander/x-9149402) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[23:28] * [SkG] (~sconde@unaffiliated/skg/x-897332) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:29] * Commander1024 (~Commander@Commander1024-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[23:30] * Commander1024 (~Commander@Commander1024-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] * Madatnek (~Madatnek@c-b90ce255.035-188-7673743.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[23:31] <gordonDrogon> yes- or it should do.
[23:33] * Hopsy (~Hopsy@unaffiliated/hopsy) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:33] * thomashunter (~thomashun@208-44-138-156.dia.static.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: zZz)
[23:36] <Crenn-NAS> gordonDrogon: Will do for next time
[23:37] * navaati (58af60f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.175.96.240) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:38] * patrickMelo (~Patrick@201.47.205.103.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:39] * mikey_w (~mike@c-71-63-115-202.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:44] * ddm (ddmor@129.237.196.32) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[23:48] * reverendp_ (~reverendp@96.255.248.36) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:51] * jar_ (~jmogharb@mo-76-0-41-177.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[23:52] * AeroNotix (~xeno@abob170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Quit: Uploading hax.....)
[23:53] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:53] * bortzmeyer (~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:4df0:bb5a:1adc:b525) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[23:55] * Syliss (~Home@108.228.178.72) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] * Satorin (~Satori@unaffiliated/satorin) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:57] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@149.241.236.236) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:58] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:58] * smw (~smw@unaffiliated/smw) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:58] * zokeber (~zokeber@unaffiliated/zokeber) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:59] * thomashunter (~thomashun@208-44-138-156.dia.static.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:59] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.