#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2013-03-31

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: lol. Yeah, well, if not for the clients we wouldn't have work so I just got to remind myself of that sometimes.
[0:00] <rpitin> Like when they're calling to tell me their website is broken for the 101th time
[0:00] <rpitin> despite having their computers pack full of malware and they're using IE
[0:00] <rpitin> and 99 funky toolbars installed
[0:01] <rpitin> well 1 or 2
[0:01] <Gadgetoid> I've probably seen 99 toolbars installed!
[0:02] <rpitin> hehehe
[0:02] <rpitin> I'm slowly converting my clients onto ubuntu
[0:02] <rpitin> I put a seniour retired mechanic on it a few years ago and he called for help a lot less
[0:02] <steve_rox> agh not toolbars
[0:03] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: im in AU, which country you located in?
[0:03] <Gadgetoid> Fighting the good fight, every one less windows user we get, is less botnet!
[0:04] <Gadgetoid> I'm in the UK, so worlds apart!
[0:04] <Gadgetoid> Or not, as 1s and 0s seem to travel instantaneously these days
[0:04] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: Yeah, so probably not come across our small agency. Was wondering if you may have bumped into me on some popular Aussie tech forums, but ya.
[0:05] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[0:06] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: there was this one case where a competing digital advertising agency was laterally scamming clients. Getting them stuck on auto-debits and failing to render a service, and then repeated for multiple years straight. So we helped their disgruntled clients setup a consumer awareness campaign about their activities.
[0:06] * ChampS666 (~ChampS@p54B4BA36.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:06] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: Put the website on first page google 2 places down from their main website for anyone searching their businesss name.
[0:06] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:06] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:07] * BlueDreams (~matt@99-7-9-105.lightspeed.psdnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:07] <Gadgetoid> Hahaha, harsh but fair!
[0:07] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:07] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: Now they get 1 or 2 civil tribunal hearings per day in various states around AU. So they're pretty much done for now. As it turns out the guys a pretype well known scammer and has been doing this type of crap for the past 12 years.
[0:08] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: Yeah, the funny thing is one of their advertised services was "reputation cleaning" but oerm, like the rest of their services they're crap at that too.
[0:08] <Gadgetoid> Surprised they get away with it for so long
[0:09] <Gadgetoid> Although I worked for a guy who seems to have managed to run several successive unscrupulous businesses into the ground
[0:09] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: Yeah so am I and so are a lot of the ex-customers. The civil tribunal's are ruling in the customers favour but ASIC wont shut them down for some reason.
[0:10] * NucWin (~nucwin@unaffiliated/nucwin) Quit (Quit: ttfn)
[0:11] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:11] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: Another company in this industry bit the dust a few weeks ago. The problem with a lot of the mobs down here is they're in it purely for the $$ but dont realise that this stuff is evolving so fast you really have to love it and be in the thick of it to keep up.
[0:11] * NucWin (~nucwin@unaffiliated/nucwin) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] <rpitin> But yeah, thats their problem I guess.
[0:11] <Gadgetoid> Yeah, you're absolutely right about the need for passion to keep up
[0:12] <rpitin> Im in the process of using a RPi to build a cheap and affordable POS system prototype that we can then develop some POS software with some plugins to interface with opensource ecommerce packages like opencart.
[0:12] <Gadgetoid> If you can't keep up quickly enough to recover a client from a major drop, you're fighting a losing battle
[0:12] <rpitin> Yep
[0:13] * rolleiflex (~rolleifle@ns84williamsips03.n.subnet.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] <rpitin> A lot of the companies here just outsource to india for backlink spamming anyway
[0:13] <rpitin> Thats all they think is involved
[0:13] <Gadgetoid> Ugh!
[0:13] <rpitin> Yep
[0:13] <Gadgetoid> That'll probably do more harm than good these days
[0:13] <rpitin> Ugh indeedy
[0:13] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:14] <Gadgetoid> Could have got away with it once upon a time, but even the forum signature links I used seem detrimental to my blog now
[0:14] <Gadgetoid> And they weren't even spammy!
[0:14] <rpitin> Yes, it does. I've got a few clients on my books with a lot of trashy backlinks with incorrect meta tags on low value sites.
[0:14] <rpitin> Yep, Googles really cracking down on the contextual relevance of backlink sources.
[0:14] <Gadgetoid> I get a lot of people still asking for questionable quality backlinks, sometimes asking to put them at the bottom of an article on a totally different topic
[0:15] <[Saint]> From my experience, a lot of clients think computers are driven via magic, and can only be cured of their ills by wizards.
[0:15] <rpitin> Saint: that's true.
[0:15] <Gadgetoid> With wording to the tune of, and I paraphrase heavily: "Now that you've finished reading about badgers, why not check out this fine austrian cheese website"
[0:15] <rpitin> Saint: well in principle.
[0:15] <Gadgetoid> [Saint]: That's why I grew a long pointy beard and litter my desk with unidentifiable arcane artefacts
[0:16] <[Saint]> beard: check
[0:16] <[Saint]> ...its kinda like a uniform.
[0:16] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: hahaha, yeah, I think thats because some clients go out reading about this stuff and end up in the backhat forums packed full of ex-viagra spammers who haven't moved forward in the last 8 years.
[0:16] <Gadgetoid> I know a surprising number of computer professionals who refuse to grow a beard
[0:17] <Gadgetoid> I have so many photos??? so??? many??? photos. I wish Flickr had magic and wizards
[0:17] <rpitin> Having spent quite a while in sales, I look like a real estate salesman =/
[0:17] <[Saint]> Its different if you need to directly relate to the client, in person.
[0:17] <[Saint]> but when you can just sit in your man-cube all day - meh.
[0:17] <Gadgetoid> Wonder if I should omit all the photos of my complete failures, and the slow evisceration of the sound activated driver board
[0:18] <[Saint]> Photos of other peoples failures is how we learn to pretend to be better people. Do share :)
[0:18] <Gadgetoid> Ah, it's not too bad. Only 40 photos!
[0:18] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: it may be good to keep them for examples of your learning experiences, so if others end up with the same failures they know how to recover.
[0:19] <rpitin> Yes, please share your monstrosities!
[0:19] <Gadgetoid> Actually, after gutting the driver board I used the photos to remember the component placement when I was trying to rebuild an oscillator??? still failed!
[0:20] <rpitin> Meh, failure is how you find success, dont sweat it
[0:20] <[Saint]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cBkWhkAZ9ds
[0:20] <[Saint]> bah whoops.
[0:20] <[Saint]> o_0
[0:20] <[Saint]> well - have an accidental cute frog.
[0:20] <rpitin> How on earth did you make that robot frog with your pi?
[0:21] <Gadgetoid> "sips" is one of the most useful terminal commands ever
[0:21] * [Saint] has been giggling with joy over said frog for a few days
[0:21] <rpitin> Yeah hes funny
[0:21] <[Saint]> (that's his angry-noise :))
[0:21] <rpitin> suqeee suqeee
[0:22] <rpitin> squee*
[0:22] <Gadgetoid> Batch resize photos: sips -z 900 --out resized
[0:24] <rpitin> Ooh theres part2
[0:24] <rpitin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igwn_lsFQcY
[0:25] <Gadgetoid> I didn't take many photos of my miserable fail, actually
[0:25] * teepee (~teepee@p508468BB.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:25] <Gadgetoid> I also scored a cool 5-led sound level driver I can use in another project
[0:25] * teepee (~teepee@p4FFFD0F7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[0:26] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: if it makes you feel any better, I was trying to setup my Pi as a webserver, but instead I tore a hole in space time and this website from the 90's fell through http://rpitin.no-ip.org
[0:27] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: have you seen my Pi-hosted blog?
[0:27] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: oh nope, do link
[0:27] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: Use more bootstrap!
[0:27] <rpitin> haha yeah
[0:27] <Gadgetoid> http://pi.gadgetoid.com/ is the main site
[0:27] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:27] <rpitin> i typed it up in 20 minutes using nano
[0:28] * GentileBen (GentileBen@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit ()
[0:28] <rpitin> from shell
[0:30] <Gadgetoid> Oh dear...
[0:30] <Gadgetoid> My laptop has gone horribly horribly wrong, there's actually static noise in google chrome!
[0:30] <Gadgetoid> That was the weirdest thing I've ever seen
[0:30] <Gadgetoid> I opened my website in Chrome, and the rendering engine crashed hard, like an out-of-tune analog TV
[0:31] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: there we go, added your blog on to the links
[0:32] <rpitin> ouch
[0:32] <rpitin> what OS are you running?
[0:32] <Gadgetoid> OSX 10.7.5, but this laptop is 4 years old now
[0:32] <Gadgetoid> It might be the first signs of it dying
[0:32] <rpitin> Yeah maybe, not too familiar with OSX
[0:33] <Gadgetoid> I've used this machine half to death, solidly since I bought it???
[0:34] <Gadgetoid> But they're absurdly expensive to replace, and Apple hate their users, so they don't make anything worth upgrading to
[0:34] <rpitin> Did the bug occur across the whole monitor or just within Chrome?
[0:35] <Gadgetoid> It started in chrome, then my screen started to flicker in a different way, and then froze up, but the system was still running fine; so it must have been a GPU glitch
[0:35] <Gadgetoid> Wonder if it's got anything to do with me running 4 screens
[0:36] <Gadgetoid> Two of which are over USB! they're not connected now, but the load might have accellerated the death of my GPU
[0:36] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:36] * nils_2_ (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-dev)
[0:36] * Caribou| (~Caribou@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:36] <rpitin> Its a good marketing stratergy, convince your users they are special for using your products, qualify their "specialness" by how often they purchase slightly rehashed versions of the same old product, and remove as many cost saving measures as you can
[0:37] <Gadgetoid> As it is, I had to use shoddy old LCDs at low resolution because the GPU would just garble everything if I tried to get anything half decent out of it
[0:37] <rpitin> = proffit
[0:37] <Gadgetoid> Yeah, the new retina macbooks??? want to upgrade? Simply by a new one
[0:37] <rpitin> Im not a fan of apples products, but their marketing stratergy is very effective.
[0:37] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] <Gadgetoid> I'm a big fan of the products, but my disdain for their computers is growing
[0:38] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: yeah if the problem was across the monitors but kept running then it could be GPU
[0:39] <rpitin> The main flaw with apples marketing strategy is that its self defeating when its successful
[0:39] <rpitin> They rely heavily on making their customers feel special, apart of a minority elite
[0:40] <rpitin> But when they're campaign is successful their product becomes wide spread and no longer gives the sense of being a minority
[0:40] <rpitin> being within a special minority
[0:40] <rpitin> especially when your grandparents have ipads
[0:40] <Blueness|> google makes me feel special
[0:40] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:41] <rpitin> :P
[0:41] <Gadgetoid> Yeah, I've noticed that the fact everyone has an iPhone has seriously curbed my enthusiasm for the new ones
[0:41] <Gadgetoid> I was the first in my office of 50 people to get an iPhone 3G when they arrived, but now they're just so so
[0:42] * DocGroove (~DocGroove@5352C6FC.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: Zzzz???.)
[0:42] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable119.94-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[0:42] <Gadgetoid> So I have a Pandora instead
[0:42] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: rig your Pi up to a GSM dongle and some phone software. That would be way cooler than an iphone
[0:43] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: probably not worth the bother, I don't phone anyone anyway!
[0:43] <rpitin> maybe not as slick and trendy and hip so you may be rejected from your local starbucks, but
[0:43] <Gadgetoid> my iPhone is a glorified 3g-enabled music player
[0:44] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: well, anytime you want to look popular, just trigger your google 2 step verification
[0:44] <rpitin> >.>
[0:45] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:45] <rpitin> RaspberryPiPhone + Google 2 step verification + Starbucks = coolest nerd in town
[0:45] <rpitin> will show up them apple fanbois for sure
[0:46] <[Saint]> Interesting view - I think Aple's success relies in people *not* wanting to be unique or elite, but rather just "having that thing that everyone else has".
[0:46] <SwK> been there done that
[0:46] <rpitin> Saint: thats a secondary market
[0:47] <rpitin> Saint: their primary market is a niche, but when you dominate one niche (especially if that niche has broadly desired traits) you appeal to the sheep consumers by default.
[0:47] <[Saint]> (does your client mess up nick completion or something...?)
[0:48] <rpitin> No, Im just not typing the [ infront
[0:48] <[Saint]> you're aware of tab-completion?
[0:48] <rpitin> Yes, but [ is all the way over there
[0:49] <[Saint]> for most clients s+[Tab] should highlight me if I last spoke.
[0:49] <[Saint]> most sane ones. :)
[0:49] <rpitin> [SLB] is here too
[0:49] <[Saint]> sane clients respect last spoken order.
[0:50] <rpitin> Not pidgin!
[0:50] <[Saint]> failing that, its tab twice, vs 5 kays and a modifeir.
[0:50] <rpitin> Its not a real IRC client anyway
[0:50] <[Saint]> *keys
[0:51] * [Saint] is more of a quassel man
[0:51] <[Saint]> But that's only of any great benefit if your core is running on an 'always on' rig.
[0:51] <rpitin> Another quick example of the primary nice and secondary sheep markets (well aspiring consumers) is in the health food industry.
[0:51] * m8 (~mor@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[0:52] * [Saint] despises that term
[0:52] <rpitin> Trim and taught gym junkies consume various health food supplements, while aspiring consumers (often a bit soft around the edges) follow suite because they're aspiring to be like the primary group
[0:52] <[Saint]> it implies such a thing exists.
[0:53] <[Saint]> food isn't unhealthy - indulgence is.
[0:53] <rpitin> Yeah, though they're typically referring to the range of suppliments, atleast when you're talking to the primary markets
[0:54] <[Saint]> Expensive urine buffers. :)
[0:54] <rpitin> but anyt way, if your niche market has commonly desired traits, you will attract a secondary aspiring marketing
[0:55] <rpitin> aspiring markets*
[0:55] <[Saint]> Uuuuggghhh - if I hear much more Robbie Williams I fear I may go postal on my neighbors
[0:56] <rpitin> You need this radio station http://media.on.net/radio/220.pls
[0:58] <rpitin> They should have numbered it 007
[0:58] <[Saint]> heh - chrome and rhythmbox have no idea what to do with that.
[0:59] <rpitin> oh wait, u need m3u
[0:59] <rpitin> http://media.on.net/radio/220.m3u
[0:59] <rpitin> I think
[0:59] <rpitin> if not radiotray will do the job
[1:01] <[Saint]> rhythmbox hates it.
[1:03] <rpitin> probably doesnt use the gstreamer codecs by default
[1:03] <[Saint]> Oh - no, it does.
[1:03] <[Saint]> It just won't connect to that station.
[1:03] <[Saint]> times out and gives up.
[1:03] <rpitin> weird, im listening to it now
[1:04] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:04] <rpitin> http://somafm.com/play/secretagent
[1:04] * DocGroove (~DocGroove@5352C6FC.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] * Geniack (~Geniack@unaffiliated/geniack) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[1:05] * Geniack_ (~Geniack@unaffiliated/geniack) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] <rpitin> Its like all the soundtracks from the bond films packed in one radio station, makes me chuckle
[1:05] * Tabaliah (~michael@protospace/member/Tabaliah) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
[1:05] * [Saint] is currently listening to the Chess soundtrack
[1:05] <[Saint]> (trying to drown out Robbie Williams and work)
[1:06] <IT_Sean> work?
[1:06] <IT_Sean> pssst! It's saturday!
[1:06] <[Saint]> Worse.
[1:06] <[Saint]> Its Sunday.
[1:06] <IT_Sean> where are you?
[1:06] <IT_Sean> and why is that worse!?
[1:08] <[Saint]> New Zealand - and, working on a Sunday blows.
[1:08] * averagecase (~anon@dslb-092-072-137-211.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[1:09] <IT_Sean> ah
[1:09] * [Saint] is a futurling
[1:09] <IT_Sean> lol
[1:10] <[Saint]> I'll sell you the horoscopes from todays paper if you want - give you a jump on tomorrow.
[1:10] <[Saint]> discount prices.
[1:10] <IT_Sean> nah... that's alright.
[1:10] <IT_Sean> I don't think it works that way.
[1:11] <Gadgetoid> Tadaa: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65419961@N06/sets/72157633128952910/
[1:12] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: Haha, google two-step :D good plan! my phone buzzes all the time from work emails though, sigh!
[1:12] <Gadgetoid> Half of this must be redundant: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65419961@N06/8603685711/in/set-72157633128952910
[1:12] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:12] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: hehe, im checking out the photos now
[1:12] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable119.94-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] <Gadgetoid> My laptop seems to be making some crazy 1980s PC speaker beep
[1:13] <[Saint]> You have angered it.
[1:13] <Gadgetoid> It's definitely not a happy lappy
[1:14] * [Saint] thinks of the frog again
[1:14] <rpitin> squeee
[1:14] <rpitin> squeee
[1:15] <[Saint]> I appear to have nuked the debian install on my Archos.
[1:15] <[Saint]> Nuts.
[1:15] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: your next goal could be to work out what you can eliminate and what you need to keep to streamline your setup
[1:15] * alpha080 (~alpha080@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:15] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: Aye, then I want to add triacs to switch channels independently
[1:15] * alpha080 (~alpha080@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:15] <[Saint]> Ahhhh...grrrr, the data partition image is corupt. Yay.
[1:15] <IT_Sean> [Saint]: well dome.
[1:15] <IT_Sean> *done
[1:15] <IT_Sean> how'd you manage that?
[1:16] <rpitin> Saint: :(
[1:16] <[Saint]> No idea actually. Rebooted and it threw a sad at me.
[1:16] <[Saint]> mounted the image elsewhere, and it is *trashed*. Heh.
[1:16] <Gadgetoid> So brightness will be universal, but I can switch individual wires on/off
[1:16] * DocGroove (~DocGroove@5352C6FC.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: exit(EXIT_SUCCESS);)
[1:17] <rpitin> Saint: have some green bananas to cheer you up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DdkZvF3d2U
[1:17] * alpha080 (~alpha080@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:18] <[Saint]> I need to give this thing some love. I don't know why I don't use it more. Full size USB, microUSB, microHDMI, 3.5mm with mic in, and a set of easily exposed gpio pins.
[1:18] <[Saint]> (A101IT)
[1:19] <Gadgetoid> I think I need an analogue board for my Pi
[1:19] * [Saint] forgot microsd without silly fat32 size restriction
[1:20] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: Oh forgot to mention, I'm also working on: http://pi.gadgetoid.com/pinout
[1:20] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: http://pi.cs.man.ac.uk/interface.htm ?
[1:20] <[Saint]> modern devices refusing to mount large fat partitions annoys me immensely.
[1:20] * [Saint] glares at his gar headunit
[1:20] <[Saint]> *car too
[1:21] <[Saint]> I doubt fish need headunits. Though I'm not an expert.
[1:22] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: oh yeah I saw that the other day, its coming along nicely by the looks
[1:23] <Gadgetoid> My GPU has crashed again :/
[1:23] <rpitin> :(
[1:24] <Gadgetoid> Laptop screen alternating between frozen solid and black flickering
[1:25] * Kane (~Kane@ Quit (Quit: Night all o/)
[1:25] <rpitin> Looks like your RPi is about to come in super helpful
[1:25] <rpitin> For when your Mac dies
[1:25] <Gadgetoid> Haha! I'm more concerned that this is my workstation!
[1:26] <rpitin> time to backup your HDDs then!
[1:26] * rolleiflex_ (~rolleifle@ns84williamsips03.n.subnet.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:26] <Gadgetoid> I don't normally use it at home, it's been showing signs of dying for a week or so now
[1:26] <rpitin> Its an omen
[1:26] <rpitin> Its going the way of Steve
[1:26] <rpitin> too soon?
[1:27] * rolleiflex (~rolleifle@ns84williamsips03.n.subnet.rcn.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:27] * rolleiflex_ is now known as rolleiflex
[1:27] <Gadgetoid> Its never too soon!
[1:27] <rpitin> hehe
[1:27] <rpitin> Dell latitudes are good
[1:27] <rpitin> Ive had mine for 6 years now
[1:27] <rpitin> Still going strong
[1:28] <rpitin> But i only use it half of the time, most of the time im on the desktop at the office
[1:28] <rpitin> But I really like the latitudes, they're built to last.
[1:29] <Gadgetoid> I have a few spare computers so it's not the end of the world for me, but my employer will be losing a lot of hours to a computer migration!
[1:29] <rpitin> Aah yeah, he wont like that
[1:31] <rpitin> He should setup an image with all the core necessities for work
[1:31] <rpitin> That way you can just dump the contents of the old drives onto an external and drop an image onto the new system
[1:31] <Gadgetoid> Haha, we have windows 7, windows 8, linux and OSX in the office, it's chaos!
[1:31] <rpitin> yikes
[1:31] * troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-dev/x-4757952) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:32] <rpitin> See, this is what happens when you let your employees choose their operating systems
[1:32] <troulouliou_dev> hi is it possible that a program throw a "unable to allocate memory" error while there is plenty of swap (4 gb) and no more ram ?
[1:32] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[1:32] <Gadgetoid> Yeah, our resident I
[1:33] <rpitin> troulouliou_dev: depends where the programs trying to write too I guess.
[1:33] <Gadgetoid> Eek, our resident sys admin wants to oust windows... Not likely
[1:34] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: I got our whole office on Ubuntu, except for one 2008 Windows server that we occasionaly remote desktop too
[1:34] <Gadgetoid> Ram is ram, swap is swap! Swap is only any good if you're actually swapping things into it
[1:34] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: Sometimes the new guy asks if he can use another operating system and the answer is "NO!"
[1:34] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: That's quite an achievement! You're a credit to the universe!
[1:35] <Gadgetoid> Not much liked the direction Ubuntu is taking, though. Suse is nice!
[1:35] * IT_Sean (~sean@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: poof)
[1:35] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: hehe thanks. Our guys eventually wear it as a badge of honor when they're talking to other people about their job. So it helps build a sense of pride and feeling of being special once they're over the initial learning curve
[1:35] <Gadgetoid> Personally I stick to OSX and use linux pretty much exclusively via SSH
[1:36] * Gadgetoid reboots his laptop
[1:37] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[1:38] <troulouliou_dev> Gadgetoid, malloc/mmap are aware of swap ?
[1:38] <Gadgetoid> troulouliou_dev: I have no idea, I thought swap was exclusively managed by the system; ie you cant call swap memory and allocate it
[1:39] <Gadgetoid> But I'm mostly speaking out of how I think it would work rather than any expertise
[1:39] <ShiftPlusOne> malloc isn't managed by the system? =/
[1:39] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: Ubuntu is a really nice desktop these days. Plus if you really miss OSX you can mod the desktop to look pretty much the same.
[1:40] <troulouliou_dev> rpitin, Ubuntu is nice ?? with their unity weird thing
[1:40] <rpitin> troulouliou_dev: Yeah ive got used to it now, took a while, but its pretty good once you work out how to use it / keyboard shortcuts etc.
[1:40] <ShadowJK> troulouliou_dev, a single program is limited to 4G or less memory on rPi
[1:41] <[Saint]> Welcome to the world. People have differing opinions. Be amazed.
[1:41] <[Saint]> :)
[1:41] <chithead> unity is not bad. and you don't have to use it, just install whatever desktop environment you like
[1:41] <rpitin> ^
[1:41] <plugwash> troulouliou_dev, from the applications point of view ram and swap are pretty much interchangable swap is just much slower
[1:41] <rpitin> Im on LDXE at the moment via Lubuntu, so thats got a more traditional Gnome feel
[1:41] * violet-rpi (~quassel@laptoptina.broker.freenet6.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:42] <rpitin> But I like unity now that im used to it
[1:42] <plugwash> but on a normal 32-bit linux system each process only has ~3GB of address space so if you try to allocate more than that it will fail no matter how much ram/swap you have
[1:43] <troulouliou_dev> [Saint], :
[1:43] <troulouliou_dev> :)
[1:43] <plugwash> (there did at one stage exist a set of "4G/4G patches" for 32-bit linux but I don't think they have maintained anymore)
[1:43] <troulouliou_dev> plugwash, yes i know all that ; i have mod_passenger under apache that keeps crashing even with plenty of swap
[1:44] <[Saint]> plugwash: isn't PAE mainstream now?
[1:45] <ShadowJK> if it does mmap() of lots of (big) files, it might be running out of address space too
[1:45] <plugwash> PAE is about physical address space
[1:45] <[Saint]> And has been so for some time, thus, a 64GB upper limit for 32bit addressing?
[1:45] <rpitin> troulouliou_dev: are you using mod_passenger with ruby on rails?
[1:45] <ShadowJK> [Saint], doesn't help a single program
[1:45] <troulouliou_dev> [Saint], not for the process
[1:45] <troulouliou_dev> but for the system
[1:45] <ShadowJK> and pae is only relevant for x86
[1:45] <troulouliou_dev> rpitin, redmine
[1:45] <plugwash> physical address space != virtual address space, PAE extends the former but not the latter
[1:48] <troulouliou_dev> rpitin, yes i think rails application are still serverd through passenger
[1:48] * MarkDude (~MT@pdpc/supporter/student/markdude) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:49] <plugwash> Virtual address space is limited to 4GB on any 32-bit system. For simplicity of system call handling most systems use non-overlapping kernel and user address space, linux typically allows 3G for user address space and 1G for kernel address space.
[1:49] * rpitin (~adam@ppp118-209-32-196.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:50] * troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-dev/x-4757952) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:51] <Gadgetoid> No more EL wire??? I think my AAA batteries have dropped below some threshold
[1:52] * rpitin (~adam@ppp118-209-20-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:52] <ShadowJK> measure them
[1:52] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-248-162.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] <Gadgetoid> Hmm, yup they ran down
[1:56] <Gadgetoid> Not sure the 5v from the Pi will be enough, but it's worth a punt!
[1:57] <Gadgetoid> Aha, it's plenty!
[1:57] <Gadgetoid> Whoops!
[1:58] * dunnicli (~dunnicli@cpe-66-91-183-145.hawaii.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[1:59] * tonyhughes (~tonyhughe@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:59] * alpha080 (~alpha080@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:00] * MarkDude (~MT@pdpc/supporter/student/markdude) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:00] * AndrevS (~andrevs@2001:980:7901:1:225:b3ff:fec0:41e1) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:01] * MarkDude (~MT@pdpc/supporter/student/markdude) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:03] * troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-dev/x-4757952) has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:04] <troulouliou_dev> hi i just set up a vncserver and connect to it through reminna ; when i want to change desktop reference or do anything through pcmanfm the desktop d not react
[3:04] <troulouliou_dev> andi have this message in the ssh session where i started vnc : *** glibc detected *** pcmanfm: double free or corruption (out): 0xb5400c98 ***
[3:04] <rpitin> troulouliou_dev: you're not set as root?
[3:05] <troulouliou_dev> rpitin, no but not as pi too :
[3:05] <troulouliou_dev> i created another user
[3:06] <troulouliou_dev> rpitin, good poitn btw will try to add myself to several others group
[3:06] * rolleiflex (~rolleifle@ns84williamsips03.n.subnet.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: rolleiflex)
[3:06] <troulouliou_dev> rpitin, can you give me the ouput of id for pi user ?
[3:06] <dansan> Hey guys. What do you do when you realize that the IC you plan to use on a prototype is very odd? The pins are 2mm apart, but are staggered, so the pins on the opposite side are offset by 1mm!
[3:06] <troulouliou_dev> i deleted him
[3:06] <dansan> How in the heck am I going to drill my own pcb? uugh
[3:07] <[Saint]> troulouliou_dev: deleting pi matters not.
[3:07] * Delboy_ (~openwrt@141-136-222-246.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:07] <troulouliou_dev> [Saint], can you give me in pm the output of "id pi"
[3:08] <[Saint]> No.
[3:08] <[Saint]> I don't have that user. Its irrelevant.
[3:08] * Citillara (Citillara@unaffiliated/citillara) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:09] <[Saint]> Am I to assume that you forgot to add yourself to the sudoers beofre you deleted pi?
[3:09] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-248-162.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[3:09] <troulouliou_dev> no added
[3:09] <[Saint]> then why do you want to re-add the pi user?
[3:09] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:09] <[Saint]> I'm confused by the above conversation and what you're trying to do.
[3:10] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:10] <troulouliou_dev> [Saint], looks like pcmanfm is not starting
[3:10] <troulouliou_dev> in X session
[3:10] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: dead bug it
[3:10] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: huh?
[3:10] <Gadgetoid> Doesn't look like driving an AC supply is having any ill effect on the Pi
[3:10] <[Saint]> dansan: flip it upside down.
[3:11] <[Saint]> so the pins face upward - no problem then :)
[3:11] <troulouliou_dev> [Saint], no icon on desktop and can not start the program
[3:11] <dansan> [Saint]: uhh, I don't understand. Flip the pcb upside down or the IC?
[3:11] <[Saint]> the IC
[3:11] <dansan> interesting
[3:11] <dansan> and just solder wires to the leads eh?
[3:12] * [Saint] nods
[3:12] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chiaki.cc%2FPyxis2010%2Findex.htm <-- if this guy can dead bug a BGA484, surely you can dead bug a 2mm staggered dip ;)
[3:12] <Gadgetoid> Yay, the clocks have just skipped forward to 2am
[3:12] * MarkDude (~MT@pdpc/supporter/student/markdude) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:12] <[Saint]> Triffid_Hunter: trivial with a reflow station
[3:13] <dansan> Of course, there are more challenges, this is a laser mouse sensor, that will have a lense beneath it (or above in this case). So I suppose I'll have to at least put together enough of a frame that it simulates the expected PCB layout and the lense fits correctly
[3:13] * MarkDude (~MT@pdpc/supporter/student/markdude) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:13] * moogen (~moogen@CPE-70-92-225-30.wi.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:13] <[Saint]> dansan: Ah...hum.
[3:13] <dansan> [Saint], Triffid_Hunter: this is the IC http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-2998EN
[3:14] <dansan> and this is the lens: www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-1725EN
[3:14] * Delboy_ (~openwrt@141-136-222-246.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:15] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: those pins aren't offset on the other side
[3:15] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: oh, lol! sorry, wrong one
[3:15] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: that has .78mm lead pitch though, hang on...
[3:16] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: you're making a mouse?
[3:16] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: 1.78 you mean :P
[3:16] <dansan> sorry! it's this one: www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-2469EN
[3:16] <dansan> oops, yeah
[3:16] <dansan> 1.778mm or some such actually
[3:16] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: no, I'm just exploiting mouse sensors
[3:17] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: yep there you go, 2mm pitch offset on the other side just to make things tricky for you :P
[3:17] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: These laser mouse ICs are more expensive, but they don't have staggered pins and I don't have to have a separate LED and clip (just the lens). So, this is causing me to more seriously consider just using laser mouse sensors
[3:17] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: time to make your own part in your favourite schematic editor and get out the laser printer
[3:18] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to just buy a laser mouse?
[3:18] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: can you please enlighten me? What would I do once I print out the PCB, holes, etc?
[3:18] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: google 'toner transfer'
[3:18] * troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-dev/x-4757952) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:19] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: hmm, the mice that use these things start at $70 :( Plus, this would be a prototype and eventually (once we know we have it right) we'll get some real boards made
[3:19] <Triffid_Hunter> and if you use a surface mount package, you don't need to do anywhere near as many holes ;)
[3:19] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: no SMT for this, you can't
[3:19] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: I've picked up laser mice for <$30 in various places
[3:19] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: why not?
[3:19] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: it has two apertures underneath, one for the laser and another for the camera
[3:20] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: The ADNS-9800 is the "primier" high-end, stupid "I have to frag them all" gaming mouse with 8200 CPI precision
[3:20] <dansan> And for $6.75 a piece (for the IC), it's pretty cool
[3:20] <Gadgetoid> Now, I wonder if I should get one of these: http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/el-escudo-p-872.html
[3:21] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: Walmart has one for $56, but they can't have my soul
[3:21] * JanB5 (~jgander@83-93-101-44-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[3:22] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: heh I use a trackball for gaming.. suppose I could always point one at the ball
[3:22] <dansan> after that is $71 on ebay
[3:22] <dansan> lol!
[3:23] <dansan> You should see how crazy some of these guys get over their mice
[3:24] <dansan> but still, this "dead bug" idea has definite merit!
[3:24] <Triffid_Hunter> yeah I'd believe it.. also, ebay is usually more expensive than retail for computer hardware
[3:24] * techsurvivor (~weechat@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:24] <dansan> oh, that depends on what you get and from who. I've gotten a lot of sweet deals there lately, but mostly shipped from china
[3:25] <Triffid_Hunter> I've been looking at the HP N40L micro server lately.. they're about $240 retail, and $400 on ebay
[3:25] <dansan> lol!
[3:26] <dansan> yeah, there's SO many people out there looking to make themselves a deal on ebay, etc. Apparently Sears is in this game, but using their own website, not ebay
[3:26] <chithead> I bought my n36l for 160???
[3:26] <dansan> check THIS out!! http://www.sears.com/search=raspberry%20pi%20model%20revision%202%200%20512mb
[3:28] <Triffid_Hunter> chithead: yeah they come up at that price here occasionally in specials
[3:28] <chithead> newegg has the n40l for $299 after MIR
[3:29] <dansan> wow, that ADNS-9800 sure looks wierd: http://images.tweaktown.com/content/5/1/5184_22_gx_gaming_gila_mmo_rts_professional_gaming_mouse_review_full.jpg
[3:30] * Tenchworks (~Tenchwork@76-231-26-63.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:30] <Gadgetoid> I wonder what the idle power draw of my crazy cluster of EL driver madness is
[3:30] <dansan> Gadgetoid: what's EL?
[3:30] <Triffid_Hunter> electro-luminescent
[3:30] <Gadgetoid> That ^
[3:30] <dansan> ahhh :)
[3:31] <Gadgetoid> I suspect the batteries probably depleted when the transistors nearly melted
[3:31] <Gadgetoid> H-bridge design 101: don't do anything that I do.
[3:32] <dansan> oh, check it out. I found a great close-up of the ADNS-3080 (very similar to the 3090): http://www.saiertong.com/files856985665897965/product/2012-6-9/201823551.jpg
[3:32] <dansan> loL!
[3:33] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: this one doesn't have the integrated laser, it uses an external LED for illumination
[3:33] <dansan> Still, why do mfgs do stuff like these staggered pins anyway?
[3:33] * Tenchworks (~Tenchwork@76-231-26-63.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:33] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: just to piss you off
[3:33] <dansan> LOL! they must!
[3:34] <dansan> trying to keep out the little guys?
[3:34] <Gadgetoid> What on earth is that, dansan?
[3:34] <dansan> Gadgetoid: that's an LED-based optical navigation sensor (for a mouse)
[3:34] <dansan> Gadgetoid: http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/navigation_interface_devices/navigation_sensors/led-based_sensors/adns-3080/
[3:35] <dansan> Hey chithead, wasn't it you that gave me the idea a week or two ago to use an optical mouse sensor in the first place (for my position sensor)?
[3:35] <Gadgetoid> Haha, yes, I remembered google and googled it!
[3:35] <Gadgetoid> Interesting
[3:35] <dansan> LOL!!!!!
[3:35] <dansan> I know what you mean!
[3:35] <chithead> dansan: no, I don't think that was me
[3:35] <dansan> I'll have to look at my chat log, I definately owe them a beer or something
[3:35] <Gadgetoid> I don't know why I forget google, how easy are those sensors to read? It's got more pins than a haberdashery
[3:36] <dansan> Gadgetoid: simple SPI. Most of that other crap is for external components it needs and for the LED
[3:36] <Gadgetoid> Oh, easy then! Surprising
[3:36] <dansan> yeah!
[3:36] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: usually they have SPI and quadrature, maybe one or two other methods
[3:37] <dansan> the laser sensors are even simpler, but more expensive, since the laser is integrated into the package
[3:37] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: is it still cheaper than getting a separate laser and laser driver and then aligning it all properly?
[3:37] <Gadgetoid> I have so many components already which I really should be putting to use!
[3:37] <Gadgetoid> Most of my projects seem to center around building testing rigs for wiringpi
[3:37] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter, Gadgetoid: oh yeah, they do sell some that are SoC, but I don't need that. We're planning on having a single MCP2210 do USB and SPI to about 4 devices
[3:38] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: the highest end chip is only $6.75 each!
[3:38] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: in what quantity?
[3:39] <dansan> singles! of course, that's through a distributor, so there's shipping from Taiwan, a $15 per-order charge, hastle and possibly the port fees (I forgot the name of those)
[3:39] <dansan> let me find it...
[3:40] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: I always include all that when working out prices.. sometimes it changes your view of the cheapest place to get
[3:40] <Gadgetoid> Cant you just buy a junk mouse and hack that?
[3:40] <dansan> Actually, $6.30. Apparently, AIT Group is the only distributor now (long story): http://www.angcore.com/AITG/getProductList.action?CategoriesOid=1&ManufacturersOid=101&ManufacturersName=PixArt+Imaging+Inc.&searchType=MPN&Keyword=&Sale=&PartNo=
[3:41] * Jevermeister (~Jevermeis@unaffiliated/jever) Quit (Quit: /)
[3:42] <dansan> lol! Apparently Avago used some of Pixart Imaging's patents and they had a little legal battle. It ended in settlement (sealed docket and all) where Pixart now owns all of Avago's optical navigation line. I presume Avago sold Pixart the part they didn't already have rights to and just bailed on the whole line of business, but who knows except those involved in the case
[3:42] <Gadgetoid> I have boxes of computer mice, never thought to hack one open
[3:42] <Gadgetoid> Most of them premium gaming mice that the buttons wore out on
[3:42] <Gadgetoid> I have boxes of everything :/ goes with the trade
[3:42] <dansan> Gadgetoid: yeah, it can be a gold mine for stuff like this. One of my next projects will be to hunt down old mice! :)
[3:43] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:43] * `Winslow (~Winslow@unaffiliated/winslow/x-6891340) Quit (Excess Flood)
[3:44] * `Winslow (~Winslow@unaffiliated/winslow/x-6891340) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:44] * `Winslow (~Winslow@unaffiliated/winslow/x-6891340) Quit (Excess Flood)
[3:44] * bact (~me@bact.eu) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[3:44] * `Winslow (~Winslow@unaffiliated/winslow/x-6891340) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:44] * timb_us (~timb_us@pool-96-238-71-2.nrflva.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:46] <dansan> ah, it was pksato!
[3:46] <Gadgetoid> I should probably did up everything that's salvageable, I have various pieces of a multi function printer
[3:46] <dansan> Thank you again pksato! =)
[3:46] <Gadgetoid> Including the scanner head, but it looks scary to drive
[3:48] * MichaelC is now known as MichaelC|Sleep
[3:48] <dansan> So the thing is that no optical mouse sensor ever tracks perfectly. If you move it exactly 1 inch and them move it back to the exact location you started, both times in a perfectly straight line, it will rarely end up with a delta of 0,0 for the whole trip. So I've had to engineer some other mechanisms to make this suitable as a position sensor for a telescope drive. Of course, it's all theoretical until I prototype it
[3:48] <dansan> and proof the concept. So that's why I'm so "obsessed" with getting this damn thing working now :)
[3:49] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: telescope drive? use an encoder
[3:49] <dansan> ptff!
[3:50] <dansan> first of all, those are expensive, but secondly, it conflicts with the motor/transmission mechanism we're using
[3:50] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: expensive? wtf? gut an old ball mouse, can usually pick them up at computer markets for $1
[3:50] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: our goals are to design a very precise system using cheap parts
[3:50] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: or just print a pattern on a bit of transparency and get some photointerruptor sensors
[3:51] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: you misunderstand the precision we're after. Currently, we're shooting for 1/2 of an arcsecond
[3:51] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: if you need more precision, gear it up. alternatively, you could use a kalman filter or similar to combine the absolute accuracy of the encoder with the instantaneous precision of the mouse sensor
[3:51] <Gadgetoid> A Noah's arcsecond?
[3:52] <IT_Sean> booooooooo!
[3:52] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: one of the most important lesson from robotics is that the only way to get even close to reliable world-truth is to use multiple different types of sensors to cover each other's imperfections
[3:52] <Gadgetoid> Yeah, fortunately for everyone present I'm going to sleep now
[3:52] <dansan> but once you gear it up, the very tiny tollerances of your physical transmission as well as the gears themselves go far outside of that precision
[3:52] <Gadgetoid> Tomorrow is my day off from hacking and tinkering, and I'm going to waste it by waking up too late!
[3:53] <Gadgetoid> Then I have a big article abou EL wire to write, and have to review the cool conductive paint I have too
[3:54] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: right! So the current theory involves using this ADNS-9800 (the 8200 cpi nav sensor) for our tiniest movements. However, this will become un-calibrated quickly. Second, we utilize a second sensor (perhaps another 9800, but I was hoping for the cheaper 7550 or 3090) and use it as an imaging device to read an encoder pattern
[3:55] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: seems like an awfully complex way to read position.. you'd be surprised what you can do with a regular LED, a lens, something black with a couple of slits and a pair of phototransistors
[3:55] <Gadgetoid> Hmmm, just smelt my transistors cooking again... Curious
[3:55] <Triffid_Hunter> use blue or UV for best precision, and photographic film to produce your pattern
[3:56] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: so I'm planning on using a very course absolute encoding, mostly to reduce the time used for initial power-on calibration, but also for corrections. Next to that, I'll have relative position markers, probably in 300 DPI at the finest and then rougher relative marks to correct for errors due to movement that is faster than the frame rate needed to properly keep count of the very tiny marks
[3:56] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: yeah h-bridges are tricky beasts to tame.. I recommend just using HIP4082 or similar and be done with it
[3:57] <Gadgetoid> Triffid_Hunter: Clearly, mine gets hot just sitting and doing nothing!
[3:57] <Gadgetoid> Might have to order some parts, as it's just dangerous
[3:57] <Gadgetoid> I also just rebooted my pi with a short, derp!
[3:57] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: well, there's one challenge and one problem with that. The challenge is that we plan on just using reflective sensing against a flat surface and using a through-hole encoder would mean more hardware work. The problem is that even that isn't sensitive enough
[3:57] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: well, I guess that's not a good stagement...
[3:58] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: then you have shoot-through
[3:58] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: perhaps linear graycode under your image sensor would work? the relative sensor would love looking at it too
[3:58] <Gadgetoid> Shoot through!?
[3:58] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: both top and bottom transistors on at the same time
[3:59] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: A phototransistor solution would be less complexity, but I would need five or so of them to get the absolute position, as well as the relative to re-calibrate the 9800's errors
[3:59] <Gadgetoid> It sits in an idle state with only one set on and the other off, in theory
[3:59] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: yeah! my brother was saying that too! :)
[3:59] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: http://triffid-hunter.no-ip.info/esc_sch.png <-- here's an ESC I made recently.. worked perfectly first go :)
[3:59] <Gadgetoid> Good grief
[4:00] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: luckily, the 9800 doesn't have to look at the same pattern we use for the encoded position sensor
[4:00] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: honestly, I would use the 9800 for both, but if you want to do frame capture, you basically have to tell the chip to stop navigating, give me the frame and then reboot!!!
[4:00] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: most of it could be removed and it would be fine.. it's got heaps of stuff hooked up to the atmega's analog inputs so it can sense battery voltage, servo voltage, current, etc etc plus it has spike protection on the inputs and stuff as well
[4:01] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: you have to give it a reset command, wait a certain amount of time, upload the firmware again...lol!!
[4:01] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: yeah they're not designed for frame capture.. may want to search for one that'll happily spit out a stream of frames
[4:01] <Gadgetoid> I suspect this will serve my purposes; http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/h-bridge-driver-sn754410
[4:01] <Gadgetoid> Although I'm not even sure I need an H-bridge, as my goal is generating alternating current, not driving a motor
[4:01] * timb_us (~timb_us@pool-96-238-71-2.nrflva.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[4:02] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: well, they actually will. You can grab frames at least 1000 times a second. It's switching back and forth between frame capture and navigation that's a no-go
[4:02] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: sure, if 1A is enough :) the one I showed you is good to 20A or more depending on how you heatsink the fets
[4:02] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: right so you need two
[4:02] <Gadgetoid> 1A should be more than enough, as it's powered from the Pi
[4:03] * IT_Sean_ (~ult_ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:03] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: well you either need a h-bridge or a quasi-resonant driver if you want the current to be symmetrical
[4:03] <Gadgetoid> Disappointed that my H-Bridge, after rebuilding it lord knows how many times, is still a health hazard
[4:03] <IT_Sean_> Has it caught fire yet?
[4:03] <Gadgetoid> IT_Sean_: No, but I could smell it warming up
[4:04] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: if you're just driving EL wire, a single transistor will do. make sure it's rated for high voltage and ensure your snubber won't clamp the volts too low otherwise most of the power gets dumped from the diode instead of hitting the wire
[4:04] <IT_Sean_> Clearly, 's not put together properly
[4:04] * fr0g911 (~jmstick@c-98-194-164-201.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:04] <Gadgetoid> Curious that it still works though!
[4:05] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: yeah, and there's another issue :( The $2 ADNS-7550 does "frame capture", but it's actually by reading one pixel at a time, each with a separate SPI command. Thus, if it's moving at the time you grab them, it's going to be skewed. :( I can save a few bucks going to a 9500 ($5) and not have that problem (it's frame capture comes directly from an internal memory buffer and in burst mode). The 3090 does
[4:05] <dansan> the burst mode as well. I'm not sure that's a problem yet, because the telescope will only move that fast when you manually move it (which our design allows) or use a go to motor (since the geared down stepper is slow)
[4:05] <dansan> oh yeah, and the ADNS-7550's "pixel grab" is directly from the imaging sensor
[4:06] <dansan> With so many variables, I just want to stick one together and see how it goes
[4:06] <dansan> hmm, greyscale for the absolute position encoding. I like that, as long as I can get some nice sharp edges to verify calibration on
[4:07] * IT_Sean_ (~ult_ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[4:07] <SpeedEvil> where are you getting the sensors?
[4:08] <SpeedEvil> digikey only had one in stock last I looked
[4:08] <dansan> SpeedEvil: The ADNS-9800 is coming from the only distributor I can find (AIT Group in Taiwan)
[4:08] <dansan> SpeedEvil: oh!! LOL! Avago got sued and Pixart Imaging now controls them, even though Avago still hosts all of their product info!
[4:09] <dansan> SpeedEvil: All Avago (formerly Agilent) optical navigation sensors are belong to us
[4:09] <dansan> err, Pixart Imaging
[4:09] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::279) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:09] <dansan> SpeedEvil: Oh, but the sensor we use for frame capture, I was originally hoping to just harvest those from old mice, but I may need a newer sensor, not sure yet
[4:10] * timb_us (~timb_us@pool-96-238-71-2.nrflva.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:11] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: why not a proper camera? there's heaps of tiny cameras around for mobile phones and things
[4:11] <dansan> SpeedEvil: This is the only place I've been able to find them thus far. And you can't even purchase them online. You put in a PO and they will contact you in a few days: http://www.angcore.com/AITG/ProductList25.html
[4:11] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: My brother mentioned that as well. What types of frame rates can you get from those at their lowest resolutions?
[4:11] <SpeedEvil> cameras for mobiles require you to read the entire frame, at 60hz, or you don't get an image
[4:12] * dansan cringes
[4:12] * NucWin (~nucwin@unaffiliated/nucwin) Quit (Quit: ttfn)
[4:12] <SpeedEvil> in principle, if you can setup DMA, on the gpios, it's doable
[4:12] <dansan> oh!! are you ready for the sick part? We're planning on using rollerblade wheels for our initial (first-run) transmission bewteen the steppers and the telescope! :)
[4:13] <dansan> SpeedEvil: to what type of frame rate? And are these cheap as well?
[4:13] <dansan> But for the rollerblade wheels, we're going to find out if the fine anomalies and other properties of such a device will destroy our precision or not :)
[4:14] <dansan> So we're not using any belts or gears (except what's already in the sealed gearbox of our steppers)
[4:15] * Ironthighs_ (~Marc@ip68-13-144-16.om.om.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:16] <Ironthighs_> Hi
[4:16] <dansan> Lo
[4:16] <Ironthighs_> How can I make it so I can detect my pi on the network with, say, a windows pc
[4:17] <dansan> Ironthighs_: Hmm, Samba server?
[4:17] * rolleiflex (~rolleifle@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:17] <dansan> uhhh....
[4:17] <dansan> what do you want to do with it once you detect it?
[4:17] <Ironthighs_> Read from it.
[4:17] <dansan> oh, yeah, Samba
[4:17] <dansan> that's your only hope
[4:17] <Ironthighs_> okay, well
[4:17] <Ironthighs_> This isn't really Windows specific
[4:17] <Ironthighs_> just in general, I need to find the raspberry pi.
[4:17] <dansan> Wait, I think I heard that Windows 8 actually supports NFS now, anybody know more on that?
[4:17] <dansan> oh!
[4:18] <Ironthighs_> I would like to just connect the pi to any network
[4:18] <dansan> hmmm. I think there's some UPNP protocol, but I don't know much about it :(
[4:18] <Ironthighs_> and be able to do something similar to raspberrypi.local, you know?
[4:18] <Ironthighs_> hm
[4:18] <dansan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play
[4:19] <fr0g911> im back
[4:19] <dansan> I missed you
[4:19] <fr0g911> aww thankyou;p
[4:19] <dansan> *hugs!!!* =)
[4:19] <fr0g911> my modem blew up
[4:19] <dansan> loL!
[4:19] <dansan> nooo!
[4:19] <fr0g911> had to drive all the way to get another one
[4:19] * yehnan (~yehnan@36-231-75-89.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:19] <fr0g911> pain in the butt
[4:20] <dansan> Ironthighs_: maybe http://packages.debian.org/sid/miniupnpc ??
[4:21] <dansan> so I don't really even understand upnp to be honest
[4:21] <Ironthighs_> me either
[4:21] <dansan> fr0g911: did the smoke come out of it?
[4:21] <Ironthighs_> there's also bubbleupnp
[4:21] <fr0g911> they were like i have no idea why the board messed up on your modem sir, in my mind i was like maybe its the 4 switchs 10 computers 6 ip cams 8 raspberry pi's 4 cell phones xbox ps3 ipad toshiba thrive
[4:21] <dansan> lol!!
[4:22] <fr0g911> oh and the 2 apple tv's
[4:22] <dansan> all running through one poor little 14.4k modem eh?
[4:22] <fr0g911> and i rewired the coax direct to the poll myself
[4:22] <fr0g911> lol
[4:22] <dansan> LMAO!
[4:22] <fr0g911> no i have the 28.8k thankyou very much
[4:23] <dansan> why did you do that? to getter a higher signal:noise ration?
[4:23] <dansan> lol! :)
[4:23] <Firehopper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVK9Lc-dIk < you think a rpi could drive this? :)
[4:23] <dansan> maybe
[4:24] <dansan> Hey, anybody have one of those open hardware 3d printers?
[4:24] * Firehopper laughs :)
[4:24] <Firehopper> I'm gonna use the printer for making decals :)
[4:25] <fr0g911> no i wish dansan
[4:25] <Firehopper> I found one local for $100, guy dont know what he has
[4:25] <fr0g911> thats awesome Firehopper
[4:25] <fr0g911> im sure
[4:25] <fr0g911> i could help
[4:25] <Firehopper> what I could test without paper or full ink, seems fine
[4:25] * phantoxeD (~destroy@a95-92-88-3.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:26] * cpg is now known as cpg|away
[4:28] * cpg|away is now known as cpg
[4:29] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:29] <Ironthighs_> dansan: so what I really need to do is simply find the pi's local ip
[4:29] <Ironthighs_> and I can't rely on the user to go into their router settings
[4:29] * timb_us (~timb_us@pool-96-238-71-2.nrflva.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[4:30] <Ironthighs_> something a bit crazy I could do is mass ping all ip addresses
[4:31] <Ironthighs_> and then compare the prefix of their MAC addresses to what I know the pi's prefix will be
[4:32] <dansan> sorry, back
[4:33] <nid0> jumping in halfway through here, but for whatever application this is cant you set the pi to use a static address if you need to know it?
[4:33] <Ironthighs_> that depends
[4:33] <Ironthighs_> well, no it doesn't
[4:33] <dansan> Ironthighs_: I thought there was some type of name resolution protocol that could be used to resolve the address of a device that's on your subnet or some such
[4:33] <Ironthighs_> I can't do that because the router will most likely be DHCP
[4:34] <nid0> nothing wrong with setting a static address anyway
[4:34] <dansan> Ironthighs_: I think you'ld be best asking this question in some networking or general Linux chat room
[4:34] <Triffid_Hunter> Ironthighs_: dhcp allows devices to report their hostname so the dhcp server can add it to dns
[4:34] <dansan> oh!
[4:34] <nid0> either just pick one at the high end of the dhcp range thats unlikely to be used, or outside of its range
[4:34] <dansan> there we go, so that's DHCP, very good then
[4:34] <dansan> I gotta go feed my face now :)
[4:34] <Ironthighs_> Triffid_Hunter: Am I able to access the devices by their host name?
[4:35] <Tenkawa> Ironthighs_: what are you trying to do?
[4:35] <Ironthighs_> I am trying to make a very flexible media server.
[4:35] <Triffid_Hunter> Ironthighs_: depends if your router has implemented dhcp properly and hooked it to the dns
[4:35] <Ironthighs_> Triffid_Hunter: Lets assume it is fresh from the factory.
[4:35] <Tenkawa> Triffid_Hunter: or if it has its own internal multicast dns
[4:35] <dansan> reprap.org
[4:35] <Triffid_Hunter> Ironthighs_: may want to look into things like avahi which apparently are designed to allow devices to self-organise
[4:35] <dansan> very cool :)
[4:36] <Triffid_Hunter> Ironthighs_: haven't used it myself, just aware that it's around
[4:36] <Tenkawa> one of my routers builds a local host table
[4:36] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: got two repraps on my desk :P
[4:36] <Tenkawa> gets annoying sometimes but it has its uses
[4:36] <nid0> there are various stumbling blocks to having local dns resolution "just work" with no user setup so its probably not something to rely on
[4:36] <nid0> but setting a static address on the pi is easy
[4:37] <Tenkawa> nid0: indeed
[4:37] <Ironthighs_> ok
[4:37] <Tenkawa> nid0: also indeed
[4:37] <Ironthighs_> This is a noob question, but if the router is dhcp, can I still set the pi to a static ip?
[4:37] <nid0> yes
[4:37] <Tenkawa> keeping track of them.. now thats little more fun
[4:37] <Ironthighs_> alright thanks
[4:37] <Tenkawa> Ironthighs_: absolutely
[4:37] <Triffid_Hunter> Ironthighs_: you can even get it to notify the router's dhcp that it's using that address if you want
[4:37] <Tenkawa> just avoid the dhcp scope rangr
[4:37] <nid0> ideally you want an address outside of the dhcp range, but if thats not easy just put it at the top of the range
[4:38] * clonak1 (~clonak@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:38] <Tenkawa> er range
[4:38] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:11eb:39c0:a353:c0a2) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:38] <Ironthighs_> Well, I don't know what the range is
[4:38] <Ironthighs_> sigh
[4:38] <nid0> even if that address does ever get used by the router, itll just be tried, rejected, and a new address used
[4:38] <Ironthighs_> So what about my idea to ping all ip's and compare the manufacturer prefix on the MAC addresses
[4:39] <Ironthighs_> I know that will be the same.
[4:39] <nid0> well its a scattergun approach but works fine
[4:39] * stepho (~stephram@ppp59-167-121-22.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[4:39] <Ironthighs_> Seems like the only user-friendly approach
[4:39] <nid0> its far more effort than just setting a static ip
[4:40] <Armand> 1000W on solar, damn near ?1000.. O_O
[4:40] <Ironthighs_> you are right
[4:40] <Ironthighs_> But the user experience needs to be as flawless as possible
[4:40] <nid0> so set a static ip, what flaws are you seeing?
[4:40] <Ironthighs_> ip conflicts
[4:40] <Ironthighs_> that's all
[4:41] <nid0> are these users going to be connecting up equipment from the 90's?
[4:41] <nid0> if not, ip conflicts arent a realistic problem
[4:41] * tonyhughes (~tonyhughe@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:41] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: you're my friend! =)
[4:42] * ka6sox-away is now known as ka6sox
[4:42] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: so how much does it cost, about $500 US?
[4:42] <Ironthighs_> nid0: You never know. It's an assumption I would have to make, that ip conflicts are permissible
[4:42] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: if you don't mind it being mega dodgy and taking months to tune, yeah
[4:42] <dansan> loL!
[4:42] <dansan> I may wait for that tech to mature a bit
[4:43] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: if you budget $1k then you can take your time and get a quality kit.. hang in #reprap for a while
[4:43] <Ironthighs_> nid0: I think I'm going to go with that idea though, thanks.
[4:43] <ka6sox> Triffid_Hunter, +1
[4:43] * NucWin (~nucwin@unaffiliated/nucwin) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:43] <nid0> Ironthighs_: fwiw as an example, all versions of Windows since 98 have performed address conflict detection when dhcp leases are assigned
[4:43] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: there's printers around these days where the very first print is gorgeous, (trinitylabs aluminatus for example; disclaimer: I work for them) but you pay a bit more for those
[4:44] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: how many different materials can you currently print with?
[4:44] <nid0> dhclient has also done so since pretty much forever
[4:44] <Ironthighs_> nid0: Yeah, I'm probably just being to paranoid.
[4:44] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: ABS, PLA, nylon, a wood-like particleboard thing, PVA
[4:44] <dansan> wow, nice
[4:44] <nid0> your only possible problem might be wierdo dhcp implementations in things like printers and net connected tvs, anyones guess how they handle it
[4:45] * zproc (~zproc@laf31-6-82-241-3-109.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: zproc)
[4:45] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: oh also polycarbonate.. we could print hdpe and PP as well if they weren't so prone to warping
[4:45] <Ironthighs_> I'll set the static ip to like
[4:45] <Ironthighs_>
[4:45] <nid0> anything sensible though will send an arp request to the ip address its been assigned, and will refuse it if any reply is received
[4:45] * jol02 (~jolo2@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:46] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: oh, polycarbonate = "Lexan"
[4:46] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: I think lexan is a trade name for a particular grade of polycarbonate
[4:46] <dansan> ahh, ic
[4:47] <dansan> I can't wait for the day of cheap carbon nano-structure printers
[4:49] <Ironthighs_> nid0: oh, what about the default gateway?
[4:50] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: can make graphene with your cd burner these days.. nothing stopping you sticking the substrate in a lasercutter and building structure that way
[4:50] <Ironthighs_> Will there be a problem if my static ip is and the gateway is
[4:50] <dansan> wow
[4:50] <Ironthighs_> I think there would be.
[4:50] <pksato> Ironthighs_: what netmask?
[4:50] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: graphene is the flat one, right?
[4:51] <Ironthighs_> I'd assume
[4:51] <Triffid_Hunter> dansan: yes
[4:51] <Ironthighs_> I saw that article, Triffid_Hunter
[4:51] <pksato> bot are in different network.
[4:51] <Ironthighs_> making super capacitors in the disc tray
[4:51] <dansan> oh yeah, and that guy invented a graphine/tube structure last year or so, I remember that now
[4:52] <dansan> rather, a transition from graphene to a tube
[4:52] <pksato> normal route table cant
[4:53] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[4:53] <pksato> normal route table cant reach each other.
[4:53] <SpeedEvil> making single layer grapheme that way may be a somewhat slow way of making 3d objects
[4:53] <SpeedEvil> a few thousand years a millimeter
[4:55] <dansan> SpeedEvil: people are in too much of a rush these days. Just be patient
[4:59] <dansan> Triffid_Hunter: Did you hear about that chicken heart that was successfully printed several years back? http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/11/printed-heart-c/
[5:00] * peterrus (~peterrus@5352B04C.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:01] <Ironthighs_> well, I added the static ip stuff to my interfaces and poof. Pi is offline. Sigh.
[5:01] * Firehopper (~Firehoppe@pool-71-175-194-74.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:03] * tsx (~tsx@c-76-103-118-57.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:03] <dansan> ok, gotta run guys. Night all!
[5:05] <Ironthighs_> night
[5:08] * Henesy (~h3n3sy@adsl-75-23-118-193.dsl.peoril.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:09] * peterrus (~peterrus@5352B04C.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:11] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable119.94-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[5:15] * divine (~divine@2001:470:8247:1::42) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:19] <rpitin> Ironthighs_: static ip for your wifi or ethernet?
[5:19] <Ironthighs_> wifi
[5:19] <rpitin> Ironthighs_: http://rpitin.tumblr.com enjoy
[5:19] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:20] <Ironthighs_> oh
[5:20] <Ironthighs_> I actually did it already, lol
[5:20] <Ironthighs_> thank you
[5:20] <rpitin> you got it connected?
[5:20] <Ironthighs_> Yeah
[5:20] <rpitin> Ah good
[5:20] <rpitin> A lot of the instructions around the net dont work for some reason
[5:21] <Ironthighs_> I just put address, netmask, and gateway under my default iface
[5:21] <Ironthighs_> rpitin: No kidding
[5:21] <Ironthighs_> I've seen so many ways to connect via wifi
[5:21] * rpitin (~adam@ppp118-209-20-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has left #raspberrypi
[5:21] * rpitin (~adam@ppp118-209-20-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:26] * Henesy (~h3n3sy@adsl-75-23-118-193.dsl.peoril.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:28] * TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[5:30] * timb_us (~timb_us@pool-96-238-71-2.nrflva.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:34] * timb_us (~timb_us@pool-96-238-71-2.nrflva.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[5:37] * Piffer (~Piffer@p4FED4E4B.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:38] * Nemo7 (~nemo@unaffiliated/nemo7) Quit (Quit: it really tied the room together)
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[5:45] * Armand (~martin@cpc17-haye16-2-0-cust427.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: <Armand> I got promoted to stable but failed to propagate, so I was replaced by an inferior package with much lesser features... but that's enough about my ex. :P)
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[9:33] <Gadgetoid> Morning all!
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[9:41] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: welcome back
[9:42] <Gadgetoid> Ahoy rpitin!
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[9:46] <Gadgetoid> Need to buy an H-bridge and see if I can compact this EL driver circuit down to something that doesn't slowly and quietly combust
[9:47] <seba-> Gadgetoid, you can make a h-bridge
[9:48] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/LEDTorchCircuits/images/LEDTorchCctB.gif <-- that would probably be more suitable for driving EL wire.. need a few more turns on the secondary of course
[9:50] <Gadgetoid> Triffid_Hunter: doesn't look like it'd give me software frequency control, though, at the moment I can dial my AC frequency from about 300 to 1500Hz and get a corresponding change in brightness
[9:51] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: hook your gpio with a series resistor just after the 2k7 where the 10nF attaches, should be able to entrain it to your frequency
[9:51] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[9:51] <Gadgetoid> The circuit is great if it's on, but when it sits idle it slowly burns out. I suspect the transistors aren't being switched fully on or off on one side
[9:52] <Gadgetoid> Cheers Triffid_Hunter, I'm going to have to give it a go??? I had trouble understanding how the oscillations are set up when I tried to do something like this before
[9:53] * cpg is now known as cpg|away
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[9:53] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: they're pretty simple.. the resistor turns the transistor on a little bit. the transistor allows some current through the coil, then the feedback winding turns the transistor on harder
[9:54] <Triffid_Hunter> that keeps going for a while until the core can't hold any more magnetic field, the flux stops changing and the feedback collapses. then the transistor turns off, and allows all the energy in the magnetic field to get dumped out of the secondary winding
[9:54] <Triffid_Hunter> then, once the core has dumped all its energy it starts again
[9:55] <Gadgetoid> I suspect I'll need to limit the current somehow, as it's going to get a hell of a lot more than 28mA from my 5v GPIO pin
[9:55] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: so if you capacitor couple your gpio to the transistor base you should be able to make the feedback collapse trigger earlier than usual and thus increase the frequency
[9:55] <Triffid_Hunter> Gadgetoid: lol you don't run it from your gpio, you just use the gpio to influence it slightly
[9:55] <Gadgetoid> At the moment I'm powering the whole coil from my 5v pin, might not be the best of ideas
[9:56] <Triffid_Hunter> yikes that's a great recipe for blowing it up
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[10:02] <Gadgetoid> It's surprisingly calm about having probably more than half an amp to draw upon
[10:05] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
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[10:19] * yofel (~quassel@ubuntu/member/yofel) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 90 seconds.)
[10:20] <Gadgetoid> Any iControlPad2 pre-orderers in the house?
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[10:25] <Syliss> no but looks cool
[10:26] <Gadgetoid> Haha, thanks :D
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[10:27] * a_nordby (~yaaic@98-125-186-221.dyn.centurytel.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[10:28] <Gadgetoid> The one chance I've ever got to pretend to be Dieter rams
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[10:31] * bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:35] <Syliss> looks like the makers are taking their sweet time
[10:35] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:36] <Syliss> after collecting all that money
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[11:13] <gordonDrogon> What Ho! good easter Pi people!
[11:14] <gordonDrogon> Hope your hot cross buns were warm and sticky :)
[11:14] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:14] <gordonDrogon> hope everyone who needs to put their clocks forwards too :)
[11:15] * Alin1337 is now known as Alinm
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[11:21] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: manual clocks? ha! Preposterous!
[11:21] <Gadgetoid> And happy easter! I have no hot cross buns??? might have to get some on tuesday when they're cheap
[11:25] * alpharender (~alpharend@ Quit (Quit: alpharender)
[11:25] <gordonDrogon> you should have made some - I did :)
[11:26] <gordonDrogon> as for manual clocks - yes, we have 4 (I think). Living room clock, central heating timer, kitchen clock, microwave clock, ah, kitchen timer/clock, so 5....
[11:26] <gordonDrogon> Oh my big digital watch too.
[11:27] * ldav15 (~ldavis@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[11:27] <gordonDrogon> https://projects.drogon.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/hotxbuns.jpg
[11:27] <gordonDrogon> There are now less of those left...
[11:27] <gordonDrogon> 6 are for father-in-law this afternoon though.
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[11:36] <dreamreal> morning
[11:39] <gordonDrogon> :)
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[11:52] * Alinm is now known as Alin1337
[11:52] <Alin1337> Morning World :)
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[11:53] <gordonDrogon> yup. still morning in this part of the world :)
[11:53] <Alin1337> it's 1pm , i just woke up ^^
[11:53] <Alin1337> and i got a question for you guys
[11:53] <Alin1337> how can i build a cluster of webservers with raspberry?
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[11:57] <dreamreal> Alin1337: same way you'd build one with any kind of server
[11:57] <gordonDrogon> the same was you built a cluster of webservers with any other debian system.
[11:57] <gordonDrogon> s/debian/distro of choice/
[11:57] <Alin1337> the preformance of holding a forum (nginx + mysql) is good?
[11:58] <gordonDrogon> it's not stellar.
[11:58] <Alin1337> yea , bu in cluster it should work good
[11:58] <Alin1337> but*
[11:58] <dreamreal> it'd be useful as a POC, but that's about it
[11:58] <dreamreal> Alin1337: haha
[11:58] <dreamreal> um, performance doesn't quite work that way
[11:58] <dreamreal> unless by "good" you mean "relatively low CPU consumption by an individual cluster member at a given sample point"
[11:59] <gordonDrogon> by todays standards (and expectations), it's a slow PC with slow disk.
[11:59] <gordonDrogon> with low memory..
[11:59] <gordonDrogon> it's capable, but there are limitations.
[11:59] <Alin1337> indeed but good for a simple webserver
[11:59] <dreamreal> a cluster won't fix that, either. A cluster will lower the number of requests on a given cluster member, assuming rotation is efficient.
[11:59] <gordonDrogon> yes it's ok for that.
[12:00] <gordonDrogon> yea, with some sort of front-end load balancer (or just round robin dns at a push, I guess)
[12:00] <dreamreal> yep.
[12:01] <Alin1337> so a load balancer and a webserver on all the pi`s should do fine?
[12:01] * dreamreal blinks
[12:01] <dreamreal> depends on what "fine" means
[12:01] <dreamreal> should it work? Yes.
[12:01] <Alin1337> speed will be good?
[12:01] <dreamreal> haha
[12:01] * dreamreal sighs
[12:02] <dreamreal> Alin1337: I'll quote gordonDrogon: by today's standards and expectations it's a slow PC with slow disk with low memory.
[12:02] <rpitin> RPi is fun for an experimental webserver that you mess around with to learn, but I wouldnt use it for anything serious. Unless the goal is to learn to setup a cluster
[12:02] * mgbowman (~mgbowman@chello062178011248.4.11.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Quit: mgbowman)
[12:02] <dreamreal> you aren't going to magically exceed that limitation.
[12:02] <Alin1337> ok , i`ll just wait for my PI and then i`ll test it to the max
[12:03] * stepho (~stephram@ppp59-167-121-22.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[12:03] <Triffid_Hunter> Alin1337: I think for the price of 50x rpi you could build a single server that, for most workloads would exceed the performance of 50x rpi
[12:03] <dreamreal> that doesn't prevent its use in that manner; heck, I'm waiting on some 512m RPis right now for that very purpose.
[12:03] <dreamreal> That said, I'm defining the system as being for the purpose of showing clustering, not performance.
[12:04] <dreamreal> (If I did define it as being for performance, I'd better have a ton of tiny tasks appropriate for the ARM; maybe map/reduce, something like that, but realistically... no. just no.)
[12:04] <rpitin> Alin1337: this site http://rpitin.no-ip.org/ is running on a pi, and so is Gadgetoids Pi Blog
[12:04] <rpitin> but these are low useage and low request sites
[12:04] <Alin1337> ic
[12:04] <rpitin> that are up as a hobby/fun
[12:05] <Alin1337> will you let me load it with 200 concurrente connections ?
[12:05] * ousia (~ousia@gateway/tor-sasl/ousia) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:06] <rpitin> I think you may get blocked by my anti DDOS services
[12:06] * anildigital_work (uid385@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwfpictutluabuwj) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:06] <Alin1337> What ddos solution are you using?^^
[12:06] <rpitin> fail2ban atm
[12:07] <Alin1337> ok , then 200 unique connections
[12:07] <Alin1337> ?
[12:08] * ousia (~ousia@gateway/tor-sasl/ousia) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:09] <rpitin> 200 uniques will probaly trip the router
[12:09] <gordonDrogon> not even 50x the price of the Pi. a ?300 PC will be more than 6x the performance.
[12:09] <gordonDrogon> or even 12x.
[12:10] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:10] <gordonDrogon> Hm. out of hot cross bun error..
[12:10] <rpitin> :(
[12:11] <Alin1337> rpitin , is your pi getting high load?
[12:12] <rpitin> Alin1337: ill check
[12:12] <ChauffeR> I have a $330 desktop. <:D
[12:13] <ParkerR> I have a $199 netbook
[12:13] <ParkerR> <3 Acer C7
[12:13] <rpitin> load average 0.31
[12:13] <ChauffeR> rpitin, webserver?
[12:13] <ParkerR> The Pi laptop was ok but I wanting something that could browse the web
[12:13] <Alin1337> wow
[12:13] * Hexxeh (uid1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xfupmstjgmbedihv) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:13] * stepho (~stephram@ppp59-167-121-22.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:13] <Alin1337> guessing cpu is not 100%
[12:13] <ParkerR> Welcome back Hexxeh
[12:14] * stepho (~stephram@ppp59-167-121-22.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[12:16] * XenGi_ (~XenGi@xengi.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[12:17] * rpitin (~adam@ppp118-209-20-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[12:19] * Hexxeh (uid1532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xfupmstjgmbedihv) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:19] * anildigital_work (uid385@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwfpictutluabuwj) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:22] * rpitin (~adam@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:24] <rpitin> Alin1337: RPi is fine, but router doesnt like it
[12:24] <Alin1337> :)
[12:24] <gordonDrogon> what is your project, Alin1337 ?
[12:24] <Alin1337> right now i have no project..
[12:24] <rpitin> Its a consumer grade router for home, so its not setup to deal with heavy inbound traffic
[12:25] <rpitin> ive got propper servers in data centres for that
[12:25] * Werlet (~Werlet@dslb-188-104-227-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:29] <rpitin> Alin1337: were you sending the requests to the domain name A record or the ip address?
[12:29] <Alin1337> directly trought no-ip
[12:29] <Alin1337> A record :)
[12:30] <rpitin> Alin1337: yeah i think they're upset now because server didn't go down but the A record host is having trouble resolving.
[12:30] <Alin1337> huh? no-ip is upset ?
[12:30] * pretty_function (~sigBART@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:30] <rpitin> Seems to be, its not resolving any more.
[12:30] <rpitin> But the direct IP works fine
[12:31] <dreamreal> gordonDrogon: oh yeah, forgot to mention: my midi pedals project got accepted at the maker faire in california in may
[12:31] <rpitin> and its linked to the new ip (im on dynamic)
[12:31] <Alin1337> sorry for that
[12:31] <rpitin> I figure they will work their stuff out eventually
[12:31] <Alin1337> ow
[12:31] <rpitin> We'll see if I get any emails from them complaining
[12:32] <Alin1337> i don`t think they`ll send emails , maybe you just changed ip and it needs to update
[12:32] <Alin1337> for me it resolves to
[12:32] <rpitin> Yeah that was the old IP
[12:32] <rpitin> its just a dynamic allocation for residental ADSL
[12:33] <rpitin> servers fine, i can connect either locally or via the new WLAN ip
[12:33] <Alin1337> ic
[12:33] * tjbenator (~tjbenator@c-67-168-127-155.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[12:33] <rpitin> just not the a record
[12:33] <rpitin> checked DNS
[12:33] <rpitin> Not working via a proxy either
[12:33] <Alin1337> i think it takes some time to update
[12:34] <rpitin> Ive set it to update once every 60 second
[12:34] <rpitin> s*
[12:34] <Alin1337> their dns i think needs to update
[12:34] <rpitin> Maybe, not sure how they work that.
[12:35] <rpitin> Actually i think they're just sticking the IP in the a record, which come to think of it is pretty silly for a dynamic DNS service
[12:35] <rpitin> I thought they'd have their own IP in the A record and just forward the IP to the dynamic one, oh well
[12:36] * Werlet (~Werlet@dslb-188-104-227-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Werlet)
[12:36] <gordonDrogon> I always fancied running my own dynamic dns service, but I seem to have static IP addresses from all the ISPs I use now.
[12:37] <rpitin> Yeah, ive got a static in the office.
[12:38] <rpitin> and 12 others on our webservers.
[12:38] <rpitin> dynamics nice for home so i dont have to worry about derps hammering it :P
[12:39] <rpitin> or if they do just reconnect for a new one.
[12:39] <rpitin> De-prioritising inbound port 80 connections on the QoS doesnt seem to do much
[12:40] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:41] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:42] <rpitin> Anyways, learnings from that were, pi was fine, router was not, router probably acting as a bottleneck for the pi
[12:42] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:43] <Gadgetoid> Harking back to RPi as a webserver- if you're using it to prime a varnish cache or something, and don't have logged-in users.. then shiny!
[12:44] <rpitin> true that
[12:46] * Macer (mace@scientiam.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:46] <Macer> good morning all
[12:46] <Gadgetoid> Added wiringPi pinout: http://pi.gadgetoid.com/pinout/wiringpi
[12:46] * pretty_function (~sigBART@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:47] <Gadgetoid> I wonder if I can use printer CSS to make the selected pinout exactly the right size to print out on A4 paper, cut out and stick over the Pi pins
[12:47] <dreamreal> should be able to.
[12:47] <rpitin> oh nice, good job
[12:48] <rpitin> haven't used printer CSS yet, so your guess is as good as mine.
[12:48] <Gadgetoid> Worth a punt!
[12:48] <rpitin> But may need to soon, got a training institute client the other week
[12:48] <rpitin> They usually like printing stuff
[12:48] <rpitin> And i dont like putting web content up as pdf
[12:50] * m0spf (~steve@2001:ba8:1f1:f12e::2) has left #raspberrypi
[12:51] <Gadgetoid> Trying to guess the right size, haha!
[12:51] <gordonDrogon> Gadgetoid, have you implemented wiringPiSetupPhys() yet?
[12:51] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: Good question!
[12:51] <gordonDrogon> ;-)
[12:51] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: there was a GPIO printout somewhere o nthe net
[12:52] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: Nope! I'd better
[12:52] <gordonDrogon> I think a few people now have the little overlay diagrams.
[12:52] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: Yeah, that's where I'm drawing my inspiration
[12:52] * Gadgetoid sends to printer
[12:52] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phapBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=37634 you can get the dimensions form that image cant you?
[12:52] <Gadgetoid> I'm just taking a short break from Bioshock to tinker
[12:53] <Gadgetoid> This one is nice: http://www.doctormonk.com/2013/02/raspberry-pi-and-breadboard-raspberry.html
[12:53] <rpitin> origional bioshock or infinity?
[12:54] <Gadgetoid> Infinity
[12:55] <Gadgetoid> Blast, forgot the printer is out of ink, a project for another time I think
[12:57] <Gadgetoid> Will have to start working on Ruby bindings too, hate to leave my preferred language behind
[12:58] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: ah yeah thats a good one
[12:58] <Gadgetoid> I'm wondering if I should rename wiringpi2 back to wiringpi and push it up over the existing version once the library is stable and tested
[12:58] * KameSense (~KameSense@AMontpellier-654-1-90-3.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] <rpitin> not sure, havent dug into the GPIO pins yet. Just came across that label while looking for other stuff the other day.
[13:00] <gordonDrogon> Gadgetoid, my plan is to just push it out to the existing system tomorrow.
[13:00] <gordonDrogon> the one at Simon Monks page is good - I might copy it :)
[13:00] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: I'll probably be a little bit behind you!
[13:01] * Oranabi (~Ayhan@i125-201-255-25.s11.a023.ap.plala.or.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:01] <Gadgetoid> Although I think WiringPi2-Python is ready for prime time
[13:01] <gordonDrogon> the issue I have is that existing pogrms will need to be re-linked.
[13:01] <Gadgetoid> It's a lot better than the original
[13:01] <Gadgetoid> Yeah, I don't have such troubles!
[13:01] <gordonDrogon> unless I do clever stuff with the dynamic libraries.
[13:01] <Gadgetoid> I guess the value for PHYS is 3?
[13:01] <gordonDrogon> or possible "proper" stuff with the dynamic libraries!
[13:02] <gordonDrogon> it's in wiringPi.h
[13:02] <Gadgetoid> Yup!
[13:03] <Gadgetoid> Quite a few constants I need to grab from there, actually
[13:03] * alpharender (~alpharend@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:06] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[13:14] * _Trullo (~guff33@90-231-190-172-no124.tbcn.telia.com) Quit ()
[13:15] * MichaelC|Sleep is now known as MichaelC
[13:17] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:17] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:19] <ring0> is it possible to determine visually which model b one has? 256 vs. 512 mb ram
[13:20] <gordonDrogon> yes.
[13:20] <gordonDrogon> You need to look at the RAM chip - see if it says 2 or 4 GB - that's giga bits.
[13:20] * violet-rpi_ (~quassel@laptoptina.broker.freenet6.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:21] <ring0> gordonDrogon, thanks!
[13:21] * violet-rpi (~quassel@laptoptina.broker.freenet6.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[13:21] <gordonDrogon> you might need a magnifier..
[13:21] <gordonDrogon> unless age <= 30 ;-)
[13:21] <ring0> i'll check it out
[13:21] <ring0> good one ;)
[13:22] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:22] * vjacob (~vjacob@ip2.c462.amb314.cust.comxnet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:23] <rpitin> theres also a difference in the jumpers up near the mini usb
[13:23] * mgbowman (~mgbowman@chello062178011248.4.11.vie.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:24] <rpitin> wait, i mean regular usb
[13:25] <rpitin> near the status LEDs on http://cdn01.androidauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/raspberrypi.jpg
[13:26] * ebswift (~ebswift@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[13:26] * anildigital_work (uid385@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxclcbtybkeqfiov) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:26] <rpitin> oh wait, sorry, thought he wanted to know the diff from A and B, my bad
[13:26] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:26] <rpitin> could have just looked at the lack of ethernet he and dual usb port on A if that were the case, doh
[13:27] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:11eb:39c0:a353:c0a2) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[13:27] <gordonDrogon> A & B are easy to tell apart - A doesn't have an Ethernet socket for a start :)
[13:27] <rpitin> back to numbing my brain on python pyramid
[13:27] <rpitin> yeah :P
[13:27] <ring0> gordonDrogon, were you talking about the long serial number on the soc?
[13:27] <gordonDrogon> the trick is determining a Rev 2 Pi with 256MB, or a Rev 2 Pi with 512MB ..
[13:28] <gordonDrogon> ring0, the top-chip is the RAM chip - you can't normally see the soC. somewhere on it is 2M of 4M ..
[13:29] <gordonDrogon> let me check my own Pi'2.
[13:29] <Gadgetoid> Adding class-based stuff and constants to WiringPi2-Python now
[13:30] <gordonDrogon> on the Samsung RAM chips, they say K4P4G or K4P2G
[13:30] <ring0> gordonDrogon, i just see k4p4g324eb-agc1 on that chip
[13:30] <gordonDrogon> for 4Gbit or 2Gbit
[13:30] <ring0> alright then :)
[13:30] <ring0> 4g \o/
[13:31] <gordonDrogon> yes- the 4g you have is a 512MB model.
[13:31] <ring0> ;)
[13:31] <ring0> are there recommended manufacturers of sd-cards?
[13:31] * comradekingu (~comradeki@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:31] <gordonDrogon> see the wiki.
[13:32] <gordonDrogon> I use samsung and kingston.
[13:32] <gordonDrogon> prob. no point going for class 10. 4 or 6 are fine.
[13:32] <rpitin> coffee time, just spent 3 minutes trying to work out why my page isnt loading..... cos pyramid wasnt running an instance of the site
[13:32] <Gadgetoid> I use whatever's cheap when it comes to SD
[13:33] <ring0> alright, i'll compare prices
[13:33] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:34] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:34] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
[13:36] * mgbowman (~mgbowman@chello062178011248.4.11.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Quit: mgbowman)
[13:38] * tinti (~tinti@pdpc/supporter/student/tinti) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:39] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[13:41] <Gadgetoid> Need to build more automated testing, makes life so much easier
[13:45] * ousia (~ousia@gateway/tor-sasl/ousia) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:48] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: you going to build some automated test loops?
[13:48] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: something like that!
[13:48] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: good idea :)
[13:51] <Gadgetoid> Leftover curry for lunch, hmm not sure if good idea or not
[13:53] <gordonDrogon> Heh... Off to the in-laws later for lamb.
[13:53] <gordonDrogon> Hm. that reminds me - I've best get ready!
[13:53] <JohannesG> mmmm lamb
[13:53] <ring0> you'll know in a few hours Gadgetoid ;)
[13:53] <JohannesG> as a sheep farmer's son, I give you thumbs up gordonDrogon
[13:54] <gordonDrogon> JohannesG, sadly I fear it will be NZ lamb and not local stuff which we always get, but hey ho. The in-laws are a bit like that.
[13:54] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-222-246.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:55] * anildigital_work (uid385@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnrxpnqaowvwvypm) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:55] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: Realised I missed analogRead and analogWrite
[13:55] <Gadgetoid> I'd better get hold of an analog board
[13:55] <JohannesG> well, if I remember correctly NZ lambs are quite high quality, although probably not if it has traveled halfway over the world
[13:55] <gordonDrogon> :)
[13:55] <gordonDrogon> Gadgetoid, the only one I've tested is the Gertboard.
[13:55] <rpitin> i wish kill -9 worked on bad infomercials
[13:55] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: I'll see if I can get a Quick2Wire one
[13:55] <JohannesG> you need to get yourself some Icelandic lamb meat. ;)
[13:56] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:56] <Gadgetoid> Would be nice to see WiringPi as the de-facto solution for all the boards!
[13:56] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:56] <gordonDrogon> JohannesG, Oh, they're good - outdoor/grass fed, etc. just not local - we have sheep on our doorstep (almost literally) but we import from halfwayround the world - doesn't seem right to me...
[13:56] <gordonDrogon> Gadgetoid, that's my plan ;-)
[13:56] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: keep working on it, you never know.
[13:56] <JohannesG> haha, good point
[13:56] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: Yeah, fight back the anarchy and bring a little arduino simplicity to the table!
[13:56] <gordonDrogon> JohannesG, the viking in me might appreciate that :)
[13:57] <gordonDrogon> oops - wifes just come home - I really must go & get ready now!!!
[13:57] <JohannesG> have a nice one
[13:57] <rpitin> oh noes
[13:57] * dv_ (~quassel@chello080108009040.14.11.vie.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:57] <JohannesG> oh noes! not the wives!
[13:57] <dv_> hello
[13:57] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: I met Romilly, and he was quite proud of the software backing up Quick2Wire, we're more likely to complement it than usurp it
[13:57] <rpitin> That man needs a touchscreen and batterypack for his pi
[13:57] <rpitin> then he could take it everywhere
[13:58] <dv_> can somebody build and try out a small tool on the rpi for me? I added support for the rpi to it, but couldnt test it yet
[13:58] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:58] <Gadgetoid> I was also very slow getting WiringPi-Python up to scratch
[13:59] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: its never too late to start
[14:00] <Gadgetoid> RPi.GPIO seems to have snuck in the gap
[14:00] <Gadgetoid> And taken over!
[14:00] <plugwash> gordonDrogon> JohannesG, Oh, they're good - outdoor/grass fed, etc. just not local - we have sheep on our doorstep (almost literally) but we import from halfwayround the world - doesn't seem right to me... <-- it's simple we eat more of the stuff than we produce
[14:00] <Gadgetoid> Sucks to be an RPi.GPIO user if you want to port your program to C :D
[14:00] * deffrag_ (~Dedec@unaffiliated/deffrag) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:00] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: true, but if you can overcome some of RPI.GPIO's failings/troubles/issues you become a possable alternative.
[14:00] * deffrag (~Dedec@unaffiliated/deffrag) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:01] <Gadgetoid> Its a pretty solid library now
[14:01] <rpitin> I mean, python has a heap of competing libaries that people prefer ones vs others for various reasons
[14:01] <Gadgetoid> rpitin: Indeed! I've got nothing against giving users choice??? as long as they make the right one, bwahaha
[14:02] <rpitin> :P
[14:02] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-222-29.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:02] <gordonDrogon> I'm now seeing people going from Gertboard and using Gerts original programs for their own stuff and not even considering using a library )-:
[14:02] <rpitin> Gadgetoid: just find a point of difference and a way to solve any issues the other Library and you may be onto a winner.
[14:03] <Gadgetoid> Building a cross-language library is an interesting task, anyway
[14:03] <Gadgetoid> You have to balance between language agnosticism and embracing the benefits of certain languages
[14:03] <Gadgetoid> WiringPi2 in Ruby is beautiful, for example
[14:04] <Gadgetoid> If we want to be like Arduino, the de-facto standard practise should be to import all the function calls into the kernel
[14:05] <gordonDrogon> plugwash, sure - but people who have a choice (like my in-laws - not short of a penny or 2!) still choose to buy cheaper stuff from abroad than support the local farners..
[14:05] <Grievre> What interface does RPi.GPIO and WiringPi use to do the GPIO stuff?
[14:06] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: I love farm shops, but they're expensive and off the beaten path
[14:06] <Gadgetoid> Grievre: I'm not sure what RPi.GPIO uses under the hood, it's a mix of C/Python
[14:06] <Gadgetoid> WiringPi is a C library, and WiringPi-Python is a python binding for that C library. So it's a) Fast as hell and b) Consistent
[14:06] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:07] <gordonDrogon> I have 4 farm shops in under 2 miles from me, and a weekly farmers market. I think I'm lucky where I live though.
[14:07] <gordonDrogon> RPi.GPIO was pure python originally, but I think he's now using a lot of C to make it a bit faster - taking the lead from wiringPi ;-)
[14:07] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:08] <Gadgetoid> Yeah I think after the benchmarks of RPi.GPIO vs WiringPi-Python vs WiringPi he had to do something
[14:09] <Gadgetoid> New features in WiringPi2 bring it leaps ahead in dealing with expansion boards, though
[14:10] <Gadgetoid> I hooked up another MCP23017 just to try two of them, it's soooo easy
[14:10] <JohannesG> I have no shops, and no farmers shops anywhere near me. except for my farm :P
[14:10] <gordonDrogon> :)
[14:10] <Gadgetoid> Actually want to find an SPI peripheral that doesn't have a driver and write a C plugin for it
[14:10] <JohannesG> although I live extremely isolated
[14:11] <Gadgetoid> i2c even!
[14:11] * basiaf (~basiaf@2a01:238:433a:c200::1) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[14:11] <Grievre> oh it maps onto /dev/mem... in a hardcoded fashion. Great! :D
[14:12] <Grievre> Can we please start using an actual GPIO driver instead of this ugliness
[14:12] <Gadgetoid> Is there a GPIO driver?
[14:12] <Grievre> in fact things like softpwm would be much nicer to implement in kernelspace
[14:12] <Grievre> If there isn't then it's a result of laziness on someone's part
[14:12] <ring0> are there genereally any remaining issues with class10 sd-cards? as i read in the wiki, there were problems in the past
[14:12] <plugwash> There is a GPIO driver in linux but afaict it's slower than hitting the hardware directly
[14:13] <gordonDrogon> plugwash, the /dev/sys/gpio interface?
[14:13] <plugwash> mmm that is the interface and presumablly there is a driver underneath that interface
[14:13] <gordonDrogon> someone has written a /dev/ device interface to GPIO and that was originally what I'd planned to do, but was "put off" by "those who know" ...
[14:14] <Grievre> Well one slight improvement would be to have a /dev/gpio_mem block device that you can mmap onto to get /just/ the GPIO portion of the IO space
[14:14] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:14] <Grievre> so that things which use GPIO don't have to be given access to all of /dev/mem
[14:14] <gordonDrogon> Grievre, that's more or less exactly what I'd planned.
[14:14] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:14] <gordonDrogon> then you could control it from a normal user program rather than needing root all the time.
[14:14] <Gadgetoid> gordonDrogon: did you see my photo library from the EL hacking sprint? http://www.flickr.com/photos/65419961@N06/sets/72157633128952910/
[14:15] <Gadgetoid> Not having to run as root would be extremely handy, both in making it less "what the!?" to users reading instructions, and less of a fiddle when I accidentally don't run as root
[14:16] <gordonDrogon> Gadgetoid, looks neat!
[14:17] <Gadgetoid> The LilyPad is overpriced!
[14:17] <gordonDrogon> the issues now is the number of kernels & distros for the Pi. Making sure you get the kernel module/driver into every one.
[14:17] <gordonDrogon> so for now we're stuc with root access to /dev/mem
[14:17] <gordonDrogon> and I really must go now.
[14:17] <gordonDrogon> laters.
[14:17] <Gadgetoid> Toodles!
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[14:20] <Gadgetoid> Strikes me that you could just use a leostick
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[14:39] <BCMM> what is the simplest way to serve some static files over https with Basic Auth?
[14:40] * plugwash would think pretty much any reasonable webserver would support doing that
[14:40] <gynter> Use a webserver software.
[14:41] <BCMM> ok, if those are the only features i require, what's the simplest/lightest way to do that?
[14:41] <BCMM> i mean, anybody favour a particular web server for that?
[14:42] <plugwash> Afaict nginx seems to be about the best choice for a web server on the Pi
[14:42] <dv_> and lighttpd?
[14:42] <gynter> Nginx or lighttpd
[14:44] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:44] <BCMM> thanks. how would one go about setting up nginx to serve a static directory but require http authentication?
[14:44] <BCMM> would one need a script to handle auth or is that a built-in feature?
[14:45] <gynter> http://wiki.nginx.org/HttpAuthBasicModule
[14:45] <gynter> This should cover it.
[14:45] <BCMM> so nginx is lighter than lightppd for trivial tasks?
[14:46] <gynter> No clue, there should be lots of comparisons in the Internetz.
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[14:46] <gynter> I have always used Nginx
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[14:50] <Gadgetoid> My LCD driver arduino still works, but I've lost the code, derp!
[14:51] <Gadgetoid> Need to add colour codes, so I can tell it what colour to flash when I sent an alert via serial
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[14:52] <Gadgetoid> Sudden urge to add a capacitive touch sensor behind this EL circle
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[15:08] <ring0> has anybody measured maximum sd-card throughput? i'm not sure, if i'll be able to use the 45mb/s the sd-card i selected provides
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[15:10] <mowol> hi, i wanna compile the raspbian kernel with some extra drivers. What would be my first step (tutorials would be much appreciated)?
[15:12] <mowol> http://elinux.org/RPi_Kernel_Compilation <- like in what step should i introduce my extra drivers?
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[15:12] <rpitin> mowol: wouldn't you just create a package for the kernal rather than editing it?
[15:12] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[15:13] <ShadowJK> ring0; the real question is wheter the card slows down to 4.5kbyte/sec, 45kbyte/sec, 450kbyte/sec or 4.5M per sec when doing something else than the sequential read the manufacturer claims 45M/s for
[15:14] <mowol> rpitin my task dictates it should be compiled, but if you have any tutorial for creating packages i'll save it in case my compilation fails ;)
[15:15] <ring0> ShadowJK, true. that's always the question with sd-cards. but say the the sd-slot maxes out at 30 there would be no need get the faster sd-card
[15:16] <ShadowJK> ring0; if the faster sd card performs better under non-sequential conditions than a card with 20M read speed, sure there is
[15:18] * Hans-Martin (~ignore@2001:4dd0:ff00:9100:6c7a:7aea:653c:4800) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:18] <mowol> im guessing i need to change a makefile to include the external drivers?
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[15:19] * Jx8p (~jx8p@51.80-246-213.ippool.namesco.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:19] <Jx8p> raspberry pie
[15:19] <ring0> ShadowJK, alright. point taken. as i read in the wiki sandisk, 16gb, class 10, extreme is supposed to work. i'll check it out
[15:19] <Jx8p> I've got a Sandisk Class 10, 16gb as well.
[15:19] <ring0> any aversions against sandisk?
[15:20] <Jx8p> use it on a USB reader as I overclock and sometimes card gets corrupted in that way
[15:20] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:21] <ShadowJK> Unfortunately the wiki only lists Make model and class :(
[15:21] <ring0> Jx8p, do you have the ultra or extreme version?
[15:21] <Jx8p> extreme
[15:21] <ring0> \o/
[15:21] <Jx8p> 45MB/s
[15:21] <ShadowJK> Sandisk have had atleast 6 different cards under same names and stuff, and sandisk is the least "messy" brand in that regard
[15:22] <Jx8p> works like a charm on my USB-reader as my /
[15:22] <ShadowJK> My 2009 sandisk class 2 performs better than 2013 Kingston/Transcend class 10 cards, and 2009 Sandisk class 4 is twice as fast as the class 2.. however, 2012 sandisk class 4 is 4 times slowe than 2009 class 4 for random i/o
[15:23] <Jx8p> I'm moving to a SATA HDD soon in any case.
[15:24] <ShadowJK> Not to diss sandisk, they're the best along with samsung
[15:25] <ShadowJK> Samsung's essential and plus range have this capacity threshold, above and under those are totally different cards with same branding and class rating
[15:25] * gynter never had any problems with Kingston SD cards.
[15:25] <ShadowJK> but they behave totally different
[15:25] * mowol (~mowol@unaffiliated/mowol) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[15:25] <gynter> Work fine and fast.
[15:25] <ring0> so, sandisk actually should be a decent choice
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[15:26] <gschanuel> hi folks
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[15:27] <ShadowJK> I'm not really mentioning kingston, because they're impossible to sanely charachterize, because each batch of kingstons is made from surplus/random parts by random factories, so no two cards will be the same unless you ordered them at the same time from the same place, and even then you can't be sure
[15:28] <gschanuel> i'm using my raspi as an Access Point and it's also running deluged for downloading torrents into an USB HD. The thing is, when downloading torrents on the raspi, the download speed is never over 200 KiB/s. When I download the same torrents on my computer (using the raspi as access point) downloads are over 1MiB/s. What could be wrong?
[15:29] <ShadowJK> I'm sure you could accidentally get the top-end samsung controller, combined with sandisk's nand in a kingston card, and it would be awesomer than any sandisk or samsung card, but it's like playing the lotter
[15:29] <ShadowJK> lottery*
[15:29] <ShadowJK> gschanuel; what usb stick are you using for ap?
[15:30] <gschanuel> it's atheros one, don't remember exactly
[15:30] <gschanuel> but as access point it's great
[15:30] <gschanuel> the problem is downloading via ethernet on raspi
[15:31] <ShadowJK> what filesystem on hd?
[15:31] <gschanuel> I mean, internet connecetion arrives on the rpi via ethernet, then distributes via the usb wifi. Using this wifi on computer, my download speed is over 1Mb/s. Only torrent downloads on rpi are slow, normal downloads are fast
[15:32] <ShadowJK> I myself would probably approach the issue by running "vmstat 10", and check the values in the us sy id wa columns.. id is idle cpu, wa is time spend waiting for disk I/O
[15:32] <kkit> gschanuel, i can maintain 1.2 MB/s downloads on my pi over ethernet no problem
[15:33] <ShadowJK> torrents download in pretty random order. In the past I've had issues on my desktop linux machine with usb harddrives (spinning ones) and random access patterns
[15:33] <gschanuel> kkit, what distro are you using?
[15:33] <kkit> raspbian
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[15:33] <gschanuel> using deluge too?
[15:33] <kkit> yup
[15:33] <gschanuel> do you mind pasting your deluge core.conf somewhere?
[15:33] <kkit> i've modified my gtk client to only update every 10 seconds
[15:34] <kkit> with over 200 torrents, it'll slam the pi's cpu otherwise
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[15:37] <gschanuel> i have only two simultaneous active downloads
[15:37] <vjacob> is it at all sensible to have torrents running on a pi?
[15:37] <vjacob> just wondering out of my own curiousity
[15:37] <gschanuel> sorry, what do you mean by "sensible"?
[15:37] <vjacob> it seems mostly the cpu usage (if running graphics) is >75%
[15:37] <vjacob> adding torrents on top of that...
[15:38] <ShadowJK> I imagine the appeal is having a low power consumption thing that's silent and can be on 24/7
[15:39] <gschanuel> yeah, but.. I set to stop sharing after ratio is =2, I don't have more then 2 torrents active at a time, and I set them to download when I'm not home so when I arrive there is a fresh movie to watch :)
[15:39] <vjacob> gschanuel, I wasn't judging your situation
[15:39] <tuturu> Hey guys, anyone ever had problems with AAC audio in a MKV container? 48000 Hz plays fine, 44100 Hz doesn't play at all. Using raspbmc.
[15:39] <vjacob> just asking in general, if one assumes the user is running a graphical user interface
[15:39] <vjacob> very little wiggle room
[15:39] <vjacob> unless the tasks are to be queued in long lines and the cpu always running behind
[15:40] <vjacob> unless I'm misunderstanding the basics here
[15:41] <gschanuel> no no, i agree
[15:41] <vjacob> ShadowJK, perhaps it's not so unreasonable, just wondering if it might also shorten the life of the pi
[15:41] <gschanuel> it makes fullHD videos playback a little .. how do you say!?!
[15:41] <gschanuel> sloopy!?
[15:41] <vjacob> ShadowJK, or if the way bittorrent is normally optimized, the pi won't be able to efficiently handle the torrents
[15:41] <vjacob> sloppy
[15:42] <vjacob> even with a few torrents (when speed goes high)
[15:42] <kkit> gschanuel, i don't even know where the core.conf would be
[15:42] <jelly1> and I wonder how hard torrent will kill the sd card :P
[15:42] <vjacob> jelly1, exactly
[15:42] * jelly1 has a nice synology nas for torrents and more
[15:42] <vjacob> jelly1, but you are assuming storage to sd. what if storage is to usb?
[15:42] <kkit> ah there it is
[15:42] <jelly1> vjacob: ah
[15:42] <ShadowJK> vjacob; I suspect gui use would shorten more than bittorrent use, but the numbers are so absurdly irrelevt to real life anyways
[15:42] <gschanuel> kkit, mine is at /srv/deluge/.config/deluge but i'm on Arch
[15:43] <jelly1> even then it sounds wrong :P
[15:43] <kkit> yeah, mine's in /home
[15:43] <gynter> ShadowJK: seems You are quite SanDisk expert :) Can You point out SanDisk equavalent for Kingston UHS-I 233X (SDHA1/16G)?
[15:43] <gschanuel> kkit, just make sure there is no password in it, mine doesn't
[15:43] <vjacob> ShadowJK, interesting - care to expand what you mean by "the numbers" ?
[15:44] <vjacob> any intensive use of the electronics will shorten it's life, no?
[15:44] <vjacob> is the main reason the heat, or are there other reasons?
[15:44] * kkit installs pastebinit
[15:44] <ShadowJK> vjacob; i mean the mtbf is high enough in both cases that when it dies you'll briefly pause for thought as you're driving to work in your flying car
[15:44] <vjacob> ShadowJK, ok
[15:45] <vjacob> ShadowJK, talking about the sd card there? or does mtbf apply to the pi itself?
[15:45] <vjacob> or both :)
[15:46] <ShadowJK> And I said gui use probably shortens it, because then it's alternatinng between idling and max load between providing output to user and waiting for next user input, which causes temperature to go up and down, which causes components to expand and contract
[15:46] <vjacob> aye
[15:46] <vjacob> seems logical
[15:46] <Gadgetoid> Hope I have the pinout right: http://pi.gadgetoid.com/WiringPi-GPIO-Pinout.png
[15:46] <vjacob> so perhaps, running torrents is more sensible than GUI use :)
[15:46] <ShadowJK> Manufacturing variability and firmware bugs seem to affect SD cards more than usage patterns in my experiece
[15:47] <ShadowJK> Been running OS on SD cards since 2004 or so now
[15:47] <vjacob> ShadowJK, linux, or other OS?
[15:47] <ShadowJK> In other words, they're born bad or born good
[15:47] <ShadowJK> linux
[15:47] <kkit> gschanuel, http://pastebin.com/ADfR4wpj
[15:47] <vjacob> ShadowJK, ARM?
[15:47] <ShadowJK> yeah
[15:47] <vjacob> cool
[15:48] <ShadowJK> I've got a sheevaplug with nilfs2, there's constant 1.5Mbyte/s writing. Been running 2-3 years atleast, 24/7.
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[15:50] <vjacob> I see. thanks for providing real life data!
[15:51] <ShadowJK> That's the "data" card. The OS storage is on a different one, and sees almost no writing... yet I've had 3 of those drives fail
[15:52] * korsi (~korsi@adsl-82-141-118-220.kotinet.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:53] <vjacob> supporting your argument about alternating use
[15:53] <vjacob> I see. very interesting.
[15:53] <vjacob> I've heard about this before (leave the server on, don't let the harddrive alternate in heat, etc.)
[15:53] <ShadowJK> Well I think they were just bad quality to begin with
[15:53] <gschanuel> kkit, i downloaded your configuration, changed paths and using it now
[15:54] <vjacob> ah, ok
[15:54] <kkit> it's pretty much the default gschanuel
[15:54] <kkit> i think all i did was change the ports
[15:54] <gschanuel> =/ yeah.. mine was default either.. still slow downloads
[15:54] <kkit> but i'm not sure, considering my chemical state when setting it up
[15:54] <gschanuel> lol
[15:55] <gschanuel> :(
[15:56] <gschanuel> it's because of xbmc
[15:56] <gschanuel> as vjacob has said
[15:56] <gschanuel> i stopped it now and download speed went high (just like kkit configuring his ;)
[15:57] <kkit> i also run the gtk client on my desktop, which does hammer the pi's cpu by default
[15:57] <kkit> i bumped the clock to 800 or 900mhz and modified deluge-gtk to only update every 10 seconds
[15:58] <jelly1> deluge web ui is nice though
[15:58] <gschanuel> kkit, cat /proc/cpuinfo if you don't mind
[15:59] <gschanuel> https://gist.github.com/5280662 https://gist.github.com/5280663
[16:00] * CR_Sean (~user@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:00] <gschanuel> looks like arch is not reading /boot/config.txt
[16:00] * ChanServ sets mode +o CR_Sean
[16:00] <gschanuel> or am I wrong and bogomips are other thing?
[16:00] * Oranabi (~Ayhan@i125-201-255-25.s11.a023.ap.plala.or.jp) has left #raspberrypi
[16:01] <ShadowJK> bogomips is probably going to be half the clock frequency
[16:01] <kkit> gschanuel, http://pastebin.ca/2346328
[16:01] <ShadowJK> oh, not as bad as half :)
[16:02] <gschanuel> ShadowJK, mine is.. wierd
[16:02] <ShadowJK> yeah mine too
[16:03] <ShadowJK> might be affected by core freq
[16:03] <gschanuel> as far as I remember, mine has always that value
[16:03] <gschanuel> even without overclock
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[16:03] <gschanuel> how to find out the real running clock?
[16:04] <ShadowJK> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq
[16:05] <vjacob> cya
[16:05] <Gadgetoid> Just printed out my WiringPi pin ref, now for the moment of truth
[16:06] <gschanuel> 950000 :)
[16:06] <gschanuel> i want moooar
[16:08] <vjacob> ShadowJK, any immediate advantages of development kits such as those by http://www.plugcomputer.org/ over the Pi besides "industrial type testing", years around, etc?
[16:08] <vjacob> ShadowJK, from the perspective of a hobbyist developer or home user?
[16:08] <kkit> how about that
[16:08] <kkit> 700000
[16:08] <kkit> maybe i changed the config and never bothered to reboot
[16:09] <Gadgetoid> Perfect to the milimeter!
[16:09] <ShadowJK> kkit; also cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
[16:09] <kkit> aaah, good ol' ondemand, that must be it
[16:10] <ShadowJK> vjacob; biggest advantage of sheeva imo is the gigabit ethernet, which isn't connected via usb
[16:10] <ShadowJK> kkit; so try: while true; do A=0 ; done
[16:10] <ShadowJK> in one terminal
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[16:10] <kkit> hahaha
[16:10] <ShadowJK> and checl frequency in another
[16:10] <plugwash> iirc the sheeva etc have weaker CPU but better connectivity than the Pi
[16:10] <ShadowJK> plugwash; better cpu
[16:10] <Jx8p> I pull 1,000,000 constantly
[16:11] <kkit> yeah, it does scale up
[16:11] <ShadowJK> Well, pi has fpu, sheeva has no fpu, but runs at 1.2GHz, and approxmately same amount of work/clock
[16:11] <ShadowJK> For encoding audio, pi would probably be faster
[16:12] <Jx8p> My wish for the Pi is a fast I/O bus going direct to the CPU so folk can make a SATA controller that needs no USB or something similarly exciting
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[16:12] <plugwash> ShadowJK, well it seems to depend on what exactly you mean by "better", it's higher clocked but it's only an armv5l core
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[16:13] <ShadowJK> There isn't that much difference
[16:13] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:13] <ShadowJK> armv7 cores are different, most of them do twice the work per clock compared to v5 and v6
[16:14] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:14] <Gadgetoid> http://pi.gadgetoid.com/WiringPi-GPIO-Pinout-Printed.jpg yay!
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[16:16] * Firehopper (~Firehoppe@pool-71-175-194-74.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[16:20] <Jx8p> i just realized a fun project for mypi
[16:21] <CR_Sean> oh?
[16:21] <Jx8p> automating my litecoin mining rig fleet and even controlling power
[16:22] * Nemo7 (~nemo@unaffiliated/nemo7) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:22] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[16:29] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:29] <gschanuel> folks, did anyone here buy a USB powered hub from dx.com? I bought this one http://dx.com/p/7-ports-powered-usb-hub-678
[16:30] * yehnan (~yehnan@36-231-75-89.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:30] <gschanuel> but it's not as powerfull I as needed.. my USB HD is sloppy in it
[16:30] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:30] <gschanuel> (Usb HD, raspi, bluetooth, USB wifi)
[16:30] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:31] <gschanuel> also, take a look at this case http://dx.com/p/raspberry-pi-acrylic-case-transparent-197133 ^_^
[16:32] * archistic (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:34] * MichaelC (~unknownbl@phpbb/website/Unknown-Bliss) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:36] * korsi (~korsi@adsl-82-141-118-220.kotinet.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:36] <ShadowJK> gschanuel; heh, the discussion for that hub is amusing
[16:37] <ShadowJK> people writing instructions for how to fix all the hw flaws on the circuit board
[16:37] <gschanuel> yeah. i just saw that too...
[16:37] <gschanuel> "remove the diode!!"
[16:38] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:38] <ShadowJK> "I'd be surprised if the supplied PSU has enough to even cover the 700mA to power the RasPi."
[16:39] <Grievre> is apt-get upgrade not the Right Way to upgrade raspbian?
[16:39] * MichaelC (~unknownbl@phpbb/website/Unknown-Bliss) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] <Jx8p> dist-upgrade fo life
[16:39] * _Trullo (~guff33@90-231-190-172-no124.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:39] <Grievre> gschanuel: DON'T BUY CHEAP POWER SUPPLIES of any kind
[16:39] <plugwash> upgrade and dist-upgrade both have their uses
[16:40] * kishor (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:40] <Grievre> gschanuel: That powered hub might work with a better power supply
[16:40] <plugwash> I just wish whoever named the commands had been honest. IMO dist-upgrade should really be called agressive-upgrade
[16:40] <Gadgetoid> Ooo, put my video live too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPbpojp-SoE
[16:40] <gschanuel> Grievre, what do you mean? can I just plug a "more powerfull" power suply to it??
[16:41] * ReggieUK (~ReggieUK@5aca56b0.bb.sky.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:41] * ChanServ sets mode +o ReggieUK
[16:42] * KameSense (~KameSense@AMontpellier-654-1-90-3.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:42] * kishor (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:42] <Grievre> gschanuel: Not more powerful but better-built and better-regulated. Cheap chinese power supplies are unsafe, unreliable, generate very noisy and poorly regulated output, often can't handle the current they claim they can, and radiate a lot of interference that will mess with other stuff
[16:43] * home (~home@unaffiliated/home) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:45] * herdingcat (~huli@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:46] <Grievre> gschanuel: here let me link you to some educational videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nTRIxloDcI
[16:46] <ShadowJK> Of course all psus are made in china, but if you want something that actually works you don't buy one of the powersupplies they stripped out components from until price dropped below 10 bucks ;p
[16:46] <gschanuel> educational = NSFW ? ;)
[16:46] <Grievre> gschanuel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T88ej64aXUM
[16:46] <Grievre> that second one is probably more relevant
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[16:47] * rolleiflex (~rolleifle@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:48] <gschanuel> cool
[16:48] <Grievre> gschanuel: the BIG concerns with ultracheap power supplies are: A) they might not actually power your device properly B) They might generate radio interference C) They often have insufficient separation between the input side and output side
[16:48] * sleetdrop (~sleetdrop@ has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:49] <Grievre> C is very important because it means under certain conditions, you could get 120/240volts AC on the output of the power supply
[16:49] <CR_Sean> and mains voltage on the output is A Bad THing
[16:49] <Grievre> which would fry whatever is plugged into it to a crisp, possibly starting fires or (if there's a LiPo battery involved) violent explosions
[16:49] * reZo (gareth@ Quit ()
[16:49] <CR_Sean> Not to mention the shock hazard
[16:50] <Grievre> oh yeah that to
[16:51] <ShadowJK> I have a d-link usb hub that came with a powersupply that has poor isolation between mains and DC.. through a complex path, it made my headphones shock me.
[16:51] <ShadowJK> Got it kinda "fixed" now though..
[16:52] <ShadowJK> It's only a tiny charge that builds up which zaps, but when it goes through ears even small zap is painful
[16:52] <Grievre> ShadowJK: One of the dorms I support called me saying they had a problem with their movie setup in their living room
[16:52] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:53] <Grievre> They had two self-contained PA speakers and a projector. The problem was kind of interesting: When they hook up just the projector, works fine. hook up just the speakers, works fine
[16:53] <Grievre> if they hook the projector AND the speakers to the SAME laptop, the speakers blow
[16:53] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128057189.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] <Grievre> brought my multimeter, grabbed the VGA cable coming from the projector. Measured AC voltage from the VGA cable's shield to ground on a nearby outlet
[16:53] <Grievre> 100 volts
[16:53] <Grievre> happy I didn't touch the shield!!
[16:55] <CR_Sean> :o
[16:56] <CR_Sean> was the outlet you used for reference ground on the same circuit as the projector?
[16:56] * dunnicli (~dunnicli@cpe-66-91-183-145.hawaii.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:57] * ShadowJK bets projector's outlet lacked ground
[16:58] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable119.94-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[16:58] <Grievre> CR_Sean: unknown :(
[16:58] <Grievre> Although maintenance guy later came and checked and he claims there's nothing wrong with the wiring itself
[16:59] <CR_Sean> yeah, im with ShadowJK on that one.
[16:59] <CR_Sean> All you measured was a 100v difference between the projector's ground, and your reference ground.
[16:59] * satellit (~satellit@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:59] <CR_Sean> THat does NOT equate to 100v present on the projector's ground
[17:00] * gschanuel (~gschanuel@ Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[17:01] <ShadowJK> does and doesn't :D
[17:03] <Grievre> CR_Sean: Well /something/ was holding it at 100V, driving it sufficiently strongly that the multimeter didn't short it out
[17:04] <Grievre> What amazed me was that the laptop was unharmed
[17:05] * kishor (~kishor@gateway/tor-sasl/kishor) Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[17:07] * RoryO (~roryo@host31-51-71-228.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[17:10] <plugwash> note that modern digital multimeters have a very high input impedance
[17:10] <plugwash> of the order of 10 megohms
[17:10] <plugwash> so it doesn't take much to get a reading on them
[17:11] * KameSense (~KameSense@AMontpellier-654-1-90-3.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:12] <plugwash> It's a fundamental problem with class 2 SMPSUs, they have to put capacitors between input and output to supress high frequency interference but those capacitors will inevitablly have a non-infinite impedance at mains freqencies.
[17:13] <plugwash> and so there will be some leakage between input and output
[17:14] <plugwash> and in the absense of anything to pull it to another voltage the output will sit at about half the mains voltage
[17:15] * averagecase (~anon@dslb-092-072-137-211.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:16] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:17] * vjacob (~vjacob@ip2.c462.amb314.cust.comxnet.dk) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[17:17] <dv_> openembedded users here?
[17:21] <Grievre> plugwash: "class 2"?
[17:23] * zproc (~zproc@laf31-6-82-241-3-109.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: zproc)
[17:23] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:23] * Armand (~martin@87-194-165-154.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:24] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:24] <plugwash> Appliances are divided into classes, "class 0" appliances have only "basic insulation" and no earth, they are now considered unsafe and banned in most countries, "class 1" appliances have an earth and rely on it for safety. "class 2" appliances (also known as double insulated appliances) have no earth and rely on "double or reinforced insulation" for safety
[17:25] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:11eb:39c0:a353:c0a2) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:25] <Armand> rPi has no WOL feature, right?
[17:25] <CR_Sean> wots WOL?
[17:25] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:25] <Armand> Wake On Lan
[17:26] <Armand> I shut down my rPi at home, and neglected to start it up before I left. :/
[17:26] <CR_Sean> Oh, no.
[17:26] <home> Armand: OH NO
[17:26] * home walks himself out
[17:26] <CR_Sean> THe only way to get ot going again i to unplug it and plug it back in
[17:26] <Armand> *derp*
[17:26] <Armand> I was meaning to bring it to work, but I was in a rush.
[17:27] <CR_Sean> what were you bringing it to work for?
[17:27] <CR_Sean> and why are you at work today!? It's sunday!
[17:27] <Armand> I need to reinstall the webstack.. I completely scrubbed it the other day.
[17:28] <Grievre> plugwash: So would a metal desk lamp with only a two-prong connector be considered class 0?
[17:28] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[17:28] <Armand> CR_Sean, business is 24/7, man..
[17:28] <plugwash> Could be either class 0 or class 2 depending on it's internal design
[17:28] <CR_Sean> Armand: ick.
[17:28] <Grievre> plugwash: ah.
[17:29] <Dagger2> plugwash: it's nice to know that double insulated appliances rely on double insulation... but that doesn't really /say/ anything :/
[17:30] <Grievre> plugwash: One thing that kind of bugs me: It seems to me that the standard lightbulb is irredeemably unsafe, because by design the metal threads must be neutral, not ground
[17:30] <Grievre> in some circumstances it ends up hot :/
[17:30] <plugwash> mmm, lightbulbs in general seem to get a pass on the normal safety requirements
[17:31] <Grievre> plugwash: Do you live in the US or no?
[17:31] <plugwash> if you tried to use a connector like that for any other mains voltage use in a domestic setting you'd never get safety approvals
[17:31] <CR_Sean> that's because you have to be a bloody idiot to stick your finger in a light socket.
[17:31] <plugwash> No i'm in the UK
[17:31] <ShadowJK> Well the concern is if you touch the threaded part of bulb when you're swapping in a new one
[17:32] <Grievre> plugwash: Ah. You may be shocked/disappointed to learned that in the US, appliances with no ground/earth pin are frighteningly common
[17:32] <CR_Sean> I have never heard of that happening.
[17:32] <ShadowJK> or if you try remove a bulb and only the glass part comes out, leaving the threaded part behind
[17:33] <CR_Sean> then you turn the power off at the distribution box, ensure it really is off with a multimeter, then use the potato trick.
[17:35] <plugwash> anyway how this relates to SMPSUs, if they have no earth then they have to put the RF suppression caps between input and output. If the supression caps are small enough and of a special safety design that is designed not to fail short then this is considered acceptable for a class 2 device by the powers that be but It can still occasionally cause small shocks or damage equipment :(
[17:36] <plugwash> While class 1 SMPSUs can put capacitorss between input and earth and then either tie the output to earth or put further capacitors between the output and earth
[17:37] * teepee (~teepee@p4FFFD0F7.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:38] <plugwash> thereby providing a path to suppress high frequency currents without causing the output to float up to half of mains voltage like happens with typical class 2 SMPSU designs
[17:38] * teepee (~teepee@p50846F8E.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] <Grievre> wait why do you need a capacitor if you're just going to tie the output to earth anyhow?
[17:40] * GentileBen (GentileBen@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[17:41] * JethroTroll (JethroTrol@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:42] * dunnicli (~dunnicli@cpe-66-91-183-145.hawaii.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[17:43] * dunnicli (~dunnicli@cpe-66-91-183-145.hawaii.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:44] <plugwash> you need a high frequency path between the input and output side of a SMPSU or you will start radiating high frequency noise
[17:44] * sleetdrop (~sleetdrop@ Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[17:45] <plugwash> On a class 1 design with output tied to mains earth (e.g. a typical desktop PC PSU) you would place the capacitors between the input and mains earth. Since the output is also tied to mains earth this then provides the required high frequency path.
[17:46] <JohannesG> CR_Sean the potato trick?
[17:46] <plugwash> On a class 1 design with a floating output you would place capacitors between the input and mains earth and then further capacitors between mains earth and the output. The high frequency path then goes through both sets of capacitors
[17:47] <Armand> JohannesG, shove a spud in the exhaust pipe.... also works on any badly designed Deathstars.
[17:47] <CR_Sean> Yeah, you cut a potato in half, check AGAIN that the power really is off, then stick the cut open side of the potato half over the bulb stub, and twist. THe potato gribs the base of the bulb, allowing you to easily remove it.
[17:47] <JohannesG> that is bloody genius
[17:47] <CR_Sean> YOu've never had to do that?
[17:47] <JohannesG> it has happened once to me several years ago
[17:47] <Armand> No, it's only bloody if you neglect to use the potato. :P
[17:48] <CR_Sean> It works shockingly well (emphasis on 'shockingly' if you haven't turned the power off)
[17:48] <JohannesG> haha
[17:48] <JohannesG> can't remember how I solved it back then. although I did of course turn the power off to begin with
[17:48] <JohannesG> but I do remember it took me some time
[17:48] <JohannesG> the potato trick would had saved me a lot of hassle
[17:48] * troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-dev/x-4757952) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:49] <Armand> Last time I faced a smashed bulb, I removed the fitting.
[17:49] <plugwash> how often you have to remove broken bits of lightbulb depends on whether you buy your lightbulbs from the pound shop ;)
[17:49] <Armand> There was ZERO glass left. :/
[17:50] <CR_Sean> I remember a number of years ago, when those "100 year" lightbulbs came out, my grandfather bought a pair of them to use in the garage. He kept going on about how he will never have ot change those lightbulbs again. THe same day he installs 'em, my fater walks through with a ladder and smashes one. I looked at my grandfather, smiled, and said "never?" He was not amused,
[17:51] <clever> CR_Sean: they probly also put out less light
[17:51] <CR_Sean> Actually, they were pretty good.
[17:52] <CR_Sean> As good as the 75w bulbs that were in their prior, and a LOT better than the CCFLs that went in after, which put off next to no light when you first turm 'em on in cold weather.
[17:52] * CR_Sean hates CCFLs with the burning passion of a million suns.
[17:53] <clever> try putting those suns in the garage :P
[17:53] <Armand> 0.8 candle-power!
[17:53] <Armand> \o/
[17:53] <Grievre> [08:43:54] <plugwash> you need a high frequency path between the input and output side of a SMPSU or you will start radiating high frequency noise
[17:53] <Grievre> right but if both sides are tied to ground, you have a conductor. Isn't that good enough?
[17:53] <Grievre> I mean surely a piece of wire is a better high-frequency path than a cap?
[17:54] <dv_> CCFLs have an ugly spectrum
[17:54] <plugwash> Not if it's a long peice of wire it isn't
[17:54] <Grievre> ...right, but it wouldn't be O.o
[17:54] * WeeJeWel (~wjw@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:54] <clever> Grievre: have you heard about the rf voodoo?
[17:55] <ShadowJK> Depends on the specific ccfl, doesn't it?
[17:55] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[17:55] * zproc (~zproc@laf31-6-82-241-3-109.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:55] <plugwash> Grievre, Neutral and earth are tied together in the distribution system somewhere but afaict that is typically at best at the intake to the property and at worst all the way back at the substation (depending on local practices)
[17:56] <clever> Grievre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyA2lWQrxwg&feature=player_detailpage#t=1012s
[17:56] <Grievre> plugwash: oh duh
[17:56] <Grievre> Okay this is really weird
[17:56] <clever> plugwash: and then ohms law, resistance of the neutral wire to that point, current going thru neutral
[17:56] <Grievre> my raspberry pi has stopped responding, but only kinda?
[17:56] <clever> you get a relatively large voltage drop over the neutral wire
[17:56] <clever> causing it to differ from ground
[17:57] <plugwash> what really matters for high frequency currents though is not the resistance but the inductance
[17:57] <Grievre> The SSH connection is still open, and it's echoing characters, but nothing happens. The VNC session is still open, and I can move the mouse around and select stuff but double-clicking does nothing
[17:57] * rideh (~rideh@unaffiliated/rideh) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:57] <clever> and current is always hot<->neutral, so neutral will have a lot of current
[17:57] <Grievre> I can still ping it
[17:57] <ShadowJK> i/o died
[17:57] <CR_Sean> o_O
[17:57] <clever> Grievre: how much free mem?, try df -h&
[17:57] <CR_Sean> you can ping it, but nothing else works?
[17:57] <Alin1337> i got an Anritsu
[17:58] <Grievre> CPU is pegged
[17:58] <Grievre> this happened when I tried to ls -l a directory
[17:58] <CR_Sean> SD card activity?
[17:58] * NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD29484.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] <Grievre> it probably has to do with the SD card being old and only 2GB
[17:58] * Citillara (Citillara@unaffiliated/citillara) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:58] <ShadowJK> is cpu really pegged with cpu use, or is it WA use that's high?
[17:59] <Grievre> how the hell should I know
[17:59] <Grievre> :P
[17:59] <clever> Grievre: how did you know the cpu was pegged?
[17:59] <CR_Sean> is the ACT LED blinking?
[17:59] * NucWin (~nucwin@unaffiliated/nucwin) Quit (Quit: ttfn)
[17:59] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:59] <Grievre> clever: In the VNC session, the bar in the system tray is solid green
[17:59] * Hydra (~Hydra@AGrenoble-652-1-248-27.w90-42.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:59] <ShadowJK> most gui cpu monitors are stupid
[17:59] <ShadowJK> :/
[17:59] <clever> ah, so you need to lookup the legend for that graph
[18:00] <clever> the gnome system monitor graph shows iowait in a diff color
[18:00] <clever> but cpu is blue in gnome
[18:00] * NucWin (~nucwin@unaffiliated/nucwin) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:00] <clever> memory is green
[18:00] <ShadowJK> they just do "cpu use is 100-idle"
[18:00] <Grievre> I really need to set up a serial console somehow, haven't decided how I'm going to do that though
[18:00] <clever> ShadowJK: the gnome one is fairly decent, but doesnt show finer details like swap cached
[18:01] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:11eb:39c0:a353:c0a2) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:01] <ShadowJK> if the act led was lit, it was i/o issue
[18:02] <Grievre> let me go look, it's upstairs
[18:03] <clever> ah, i can see how a serial console would be a problem then
[18:03] <clever> you kinda need a nearby pc to hook it to
[18:03] <clever> Grievre: got an xbee?
[18:03] <ShadowJK> I suspect it wouldn't respond any better over serial :)
[18:04] <ShadowJK> than over an open ssh
[18:04] <clever> ShadowJK: ive often run into issues that i could only solve by watching the serial out
[18:04] <clever> it was spewing the same out of memory error in a loop
[18:04] <clever> if its that far gone, you cant run dmesg
[18:04] <ShadowJK> Sure
[18:05] <clever> an xbee would extend the serial port, so you can monitor it from farther away
[18:05] <ShadowJK> But it helps alot to have some system monitoring going on in ssh
[18:05] <clever> yeah, top, vmstat, cacti
[18:05] * averagecase (~anon@dslb-092-072-137-211.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[18:05] <ShadowJK> vmstat is my favourite
[18:05] <clever> i run cacti on nearly all of my systems
[18:05] <Grievre> clever: There is a nearby computer but it's running windows. It does have a Real Serial Port which is nice
[18:06] <clever> i can see, that the cpu usage on my laptop was slowly climbing, at an oddly steady pace one night
[18:06] <clever> Grievre: the pi doesnt use 'real' serial anyways, so usb would be fine
[18:06] <ShadowJK> clever; that's because you forgot to kill -STOP your browser before you went tobed? :P
[18:06] <clever> ShadowJK: yeah, i think it was firefox
[18:07] <Grievre> clever: I've found that USB-serial interfaces can't keep up at higher bitrates and I'd rather not use slower ones
[18:07] <clever> but its odd, how the usage increased over time
[18:07] <clever> like something was leaking timers
[18:07] <Grievre> clever: When I was using the default settings for the Pi's serial console, it would drop big chunks of the stream
[18:07] <clever> Grievre: my ftdi works fine at 115200, and you can easily configure the pi to use anything
[18:07] <ShadowJK> you can't connect rpi serial to a PC serial port directly anyway
[18:07] <Grievre> Maybe that was a signal issue though
[18:07] <Grievre> ShadowJK: duh, I know :P
[18:07] * PeppercornMedley (~Peppercor@14-203-152-176.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:07] <Grievre> well maybe it was a driver issue too
[18:07] <Grievre> I was using it on my linux machine
[18:09] <clever> another possible problem, your not using hardware flowcontrol
[18:09] <clever> so if the usb bus or linux pc are too slow, the buffers in the serial adapter will overflow
[18:09] <clever> and it has no way to tell the pi to stop and wait
[18:09] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
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[18:10] <Grievre> clever: Yeah I figured that's what the problem was
[18:10] <Grievre> Is there a way to enable software flow control?
[18:11] <clever> not sure
[18:11] <clever> but hardware flow can be enabled
[18:11] <plugwash> Does the Pi support hardware flow control though?
[18:11] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-222-29.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:11] <clever> yep
[18:11] <clever> its on one of the gpio pins
[18:11] * CaNsA (CaNsA@cpc3-live19-2-0-cust937.know.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[18:12] <clever> which are set to gpio mode by default (wont send hardware control signals)
[18:12] * Alin1337 (Alin@ Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[18:12] <clever> here it is, GPIO30 is UART0_CTS, its on P5
[18:12] * CaNsA (CaNsA@cpc3-live19-2-0-cust937.know.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:12] <clever> and GPIO31 is UART0_RTS, also on P5
[18:13] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:13] <clever> just hook those up to the serial adapter and set both gpio's to alternate function 3 (not sure how)
[18:14] <clever> http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
[18:14] <Grievre> So I got a goofy idea
[18:14] <Grievre> I have a second raspberry pi that I'm not using
[18:14] <Grievre> I could use that JUST to access the serial console of the other one
[18:14] <clever> lol
[18:15] <clever> you will want what i wrote on the wiki then
[18:15] <Grievre> mm?
[18:15] <Grievre> Which is?
[18:15] <clever> trying to remember where i put it
[18:15] <clever> http://elinux.org/RPi_Serial_Connection#Preventing_Linux_using_the_serial_port
[18:16] <clever> youll need to do this on the 2nd pi
[18:16] <clever> or the login promt on the 2nd, will be treated as a username for the 1st
[18:16] <clever> which then returns an error
[18:16] <clever> which the 2nd treats as a username
[18:16] <clever> and they will forever try to login to eachother :P
[18:16] * yehnan (~yehnan@36-231-75-89.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:17] <Grievre> Oh I know all about that
[18:17] <clever> http://elinux.org/RPi_BCM2835_GPIOs#GPIO30 this lists the alternate functions for gpio 30 and 31
[18:17] <CR_Sean> lol
[18:17] <Grievre> What's funny is that I'm failing to think of a cheaper way to do ethernet<->serial than using a second raspberry pi
[18:17] <clever> if you also want to hook up the hardware flow control
[18:17] * Artpicre (~Artpicre@vit94-10-78-240-193-57.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:17] * erikjms (~erikjmsch@adsl-76-200-135-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:18] <clever> Grievre: there is also netconsole.ko, but with it being on usb, it may not work very well
[18:19] <piney0> ethernet to serial isn't that cheap to do. back when there were long waiting lists for the pi, i bought a lantronix xport, but they can cost as much as the pi does, and do way less
[18:19] <clever> ah, RTS0 is also on gpio 17, 31, and 38
[18:19] <clever> 17 is on the main header
[18:20] <clever> wait no, thats cts
[18:20] <clever> this table needs better row highlights
[18:21] <clever> CTS0 is on 16, 30, and 39
[18:21] <clever> one below RTS0
[18:21] <clever> 16 cant be used, its the OK led
[18:21] <clever> and 39 isnt connected
[18:22] <clever> which just leaves 30, one of the config resistors that got moved to P5
[18:22] <clever> 17 is on the gpio header, so thats easy
[18:22] * rideh (~rideh@unaffiliated/rideh) has left #raspberrypi
[18:23] <Grievre> Hmm I just remembered that software flow control won't save me
[18:23] <Grievre> because it would have to be done /by/ the FTDI chip
[18:23] <Grievre> since the buffer overrun is happening there
[18:24] <clever> yeah, i'm not sure if the ftdi and/or kernel support it at that level
[18:24] <clever> so the question is, what is RTS0
[18:24] <Grievre> I could use this little FPGA dev board I have... have it simulate the FTDI's buffer and insert XON/XOFF as appropriate
[18:24] <clever> lol
[18:25] <clever> could even use the fpga as a bigger buffer, with hardware flow control
[18:25] <clever> all bytes go into the fpga ram, which then obeys hardware flow control to the ftdi
[18:25] <clever> i think RTS0 means the buffer in the pi has room
[18:26] * troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-dev/x-4757952) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:26] <clever> so that pin isnt of use
[18:26] <clever> and if you have a rev1 board, the pin you want is on a config resistor, surface mount pad
[18:27] * featheredfrog (~mhofer@cpe-67-250-125-135.hvc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:27] * featheredfrog (~mhofer@cpe-67-250-125-135.hvc.res.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:29] <clever> Grievre: it would be simpler to just lower the baud rate
[18:29] <Grievre> yeah I know
[18:29] <clever> ive also noticed, Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel.
[18:30] <clever> that line, is sent at 115200
[18:30] * RoryO (~roryo@host31-51-71-228.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:30] <clever> before it parses the baud rate commands
[18:30] <clever> at 9600, it turns into 2 or 3 random characters
[18:31] <Grievre> clever: That's... weird
[18:32] <clever> thats very early on in the bootup, when its running bare c code without any kernel
[18:32] * RoryO (~roryo@host31-51-71-228.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:32] <clever> when it still has to decompress everything
[18:32] <clever> i think i saw a config.txt to chnge that baud rate, the bootloader leaves it setup at 115200
[18:33] <clever> bbl
[18:33] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[18:35] * moogen (~moogen@CPE-70-92-225-30.wi.res.rr.com) Quit ()
[18:36] <Jx8p> i presume that booting line is issued by the bootloader rather than Linux kernel
[18:36] <Jx8p> hence the baudrate
[18:36] * hepukt4e (~hep@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:37] <kaste> what's the booting line?
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[18:41] * CR_Sean (~user@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: off)
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[18:45] <sliddjur> is nagios-nrpe-server available for raspberry?
[18:46] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:11eb:39c0:a353:c0a2) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:46] <sliddjur> i have raspbmc currently installed. debian squeezy?
[18:47] <sliddjur> Failed to fetch http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/n/nagios-nrpe/nagios-nrpe-server_2.13-1_armhf.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
[18:47] * astralab (~astralab@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:48] <nid0> raspbmc probably isnt the best to do anything other than use xbmc
[18:48] * vibhav (vibhav@ubuntu/member/vibhav) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:48] <nid0> nagios-nrpe-server is available on raspbian
[18:48] <sliddjur> nid0: i know. im just testing some stuff :)
[18:48] * offbyone is now known as offbyone-afk
[18:49] <sliddjur> nid0: did you check that on
[18:49] * raspy_freenode (~raspy_fre@c-75-68-199-187.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[18:53] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-73-250.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:53] <Encrypt> Hi everybody !
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> hi
[18:55] <Encrypt> I'm wondering : What is a Raspberry Pi "worst" power consumption ?
[18:55] <nid0> 700mA
[18:55] <Encrypt> nid0, If everything is plugged ?
[18:55] <nid0> yes
[18:55] <Encrypt> Fine :)
[18:56] <Encrypt> Thanks :)
[18:56] <nid0> the power input has a 700mA polyfuse on it, you cant draw more than that unless you either bridge the fuse or power it via gpio
[18:58] <Encrypt> And the lowest power voltage supported ?
[18:59] <Encrypt> I could read 4.8 V on the Raspberry Pi Forums...
[18:59] <Encrypt> If I remember well...
[18:59] * sleetdrop (~sleetdrop@ Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[19:00] <nid0> 4.75 is technically the lower limit
[19:00] <nid0> ymmv though
[19:00] <Encrypt> Ok
[19:00] <Encrypt> And then, last question...
[19:01] <Encrypt> How long does it take to your Raspberry Pi to shutdown ?
[19:01] <nid0> few seconds
[19:01] * n3hxs (~ed@pool-108-16-94-10.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:01] <Encrypt> It's about 5 seconds for me, but I'm not running any graphical session...
[19:01] <Encrypt> nid0, How many exactly ?
[19:01] <Encrypt> Less than 10 ?
[19:02] <nid0> undoubtedly, cant say i've timed it though
[19:02] <nid0> or ever plugged in a screen to be able to do so
[19:02] <Encrypt> You didn't either ? :??
[19:04] * zastaph (zastaph@unaffiliated/zastaph) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:04] <Encrypt> Say... 10 seconds is the maximum ?
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> no
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> there is probably no maximum
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> if, for example, it's heavily swapping, it might be hours
[19:09] * dunnicli (~dunnicli@cpe-66-91-183-145.hawaii.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[19:10] * dunnicli (~dunnicli@cpe-66-91-183-145.hawaii.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:12] * Mr_Sheesh (Mr_Sheesh@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:13] * Mr_Sheesh (Mr_Sheesh@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:16] <Encrypt> But imagine it isn't swapping...
[19:16] <Encrypt> Then 10 seconds is fine :??
[19:18] * Nik05 (~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:19] * Nik05 (~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:22] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:11eb:39c0:a353:c0a2) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:26] * |Jeroen| (~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:34] * bin_bash (~bin_bash@unaffiliated/bin-bash/x-0273453) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:34] <bin_bash> how do i check the disk space available on my sd card. df -h doesn't give the right information
[19:35] * dunnicli (~dunnicli@cpe-66-91-183-145.hawaii.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[19:35] <Encrypt> bin_bash, It does !
[19:35] * moogen (~moogen@CPE-70-92-225-30.wi.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:36] <bin_bash> this is all I'm getting, Encrypt: http://sprunge.us/DTEh
[19:36] <bin_bash> It's a 32gb sd card
[19:36] <bin_bash> that's clearly not accurate
[19:36] <Encrypt> bin_bash, This is the answer : /dev/root 1.7G 1.3G 319M 80% /
[19:36] <bin_bash> Encrypt, but that's the wrong answer
[19:37] <Encrypt> 319 M are available...
[19:37] <bin_bash> no
[19:37] <Encrypt> Why ?
[19:37] <Armand> You haven't resized the partition...
[19:37] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:11eb:39c0:a353:c0a2) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[19:37] <Encrypt> I was about to say so...
[19:37] <Armand> ;)
[19:37] <bin_bash> ...I used dd to put the OS on the sdcard
[19:37] <bin_bash> why do I have to resize the partition
[19:37] <Armand> 2GB image.. ?
[19:38] <Encrypt> If you installed your system on the SD Card without resizing, then there must be a lot of free space !
[19:38] <bin_bash> Encrypt, it was an empty sdcard
[19:38] <Armand> bin_bash, check the filesize of the image you used. ;)
[19:38] <Encrypt> biberao, Because it doesn't use the entier space available to set the system on.
[19:38] <Encrypt> bin_bash, *
[19:38] <bin_bash> Armand, 400mb
[19:38] <Armand> Erp
[19:38] * JethroTroll (~epidural@cpc20-lutn10-2-0-cust20.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:39] <Encrypt> bin_bash, Then, you should use something like Parted (or an equivalent on MAC) to expand your partition, and thus having more free space
[19:39] <bin_bash> er sorry, 200 mb*
[19:39] <Encrypt> have*
[19:40] <bin_bash> oic
[19:40] <bin_bash> okay
[19:40] <Encrypt> I have a question for everybody right here !
[19:40] * deffrag (~Dedec@unaffiliated/deffrag) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[19:40] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[19:40] <Encrypt> Do you think 20 seconds are enough for your Raspberry Pi to shut down or would you like more ?
[19:41] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:41] <bin_bash> i think 20s is kind of a long time
[19:42] <Encrypt> I'm actually back on my project of "Pi Saver"
[19:43] <Encrypt> For those of you who don't the project I had, I'm planning to create a device that will shutdown the pi automatically whenever a power cut would take place.
[19:43] <Armand> Oohhh.. sounds good, but.. I have a plan for that! :P
[19:43] <Encrypt> Like that, the filesystem couldn't be broken
[19:44] <Encrypt> How much would you spend for that?
[19:44] <Armand> Personally, I wouldn't.... my main power source will be solar, with a mains backup.
[19:44] <Encrypt> Armand, I'll publish the schemes when I have finished ;)
[19:44] <Armand> And, behind that.. we'll have 2 12-cylinder diesel generators. ^_^
[19:45] <Encrypt> Lulz :??
[19:45] <Armand> Datacenter. :D
[19:45] <Encrypt> Because one day my mum unplugged the Pi while hoovering...
[19:45] <bin_bash> brb
[19:45] <Armand> My biggest concern is popping a fuse. :/
[19:45] <Encrypt> I had to reinstall everything for 2 days... (>.<)
[19:45] <Encrypt> The filesystem was completely broken...
[19:46] <Encrypt> fsck tried to do its jobs, but nothing really changed :(
[19:46] * bin_bash (~bin_bash@unaffiliated/bin-bash/x-0273453) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:46] <Encrypt> Then how much maximum would you spend on it? :)
[19:46] <Armand> I have no idea..
[19:46] <Armand> I'll have a storage server attached to mine.
[19:47] <Armand> I'm looking at using 60 rPi.. got to have safe storage.
[19:47] <Encrypt> Armand, On mine, I have :
[19:48] <Encrypt> A file sync system, a printer server, two websites, email boxes and a WebFTP
[19:48] <Armand> Shit, son. O_O
[19:48] <Encrypt> It works fine :) But it represents a long time of configurations...
[19:48] <Armand> Yup
[19:49] <Armand> I'll just have the httpd, ftp and ssh on mine.
[19:49] * N0_Named_Guy (~Someone@a89-153-107-115.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[19:49] <Armand> E-mail and database duties will be handled by a proper server.
[19:49] <Encrypt> Armand, It works fine with Nginx ;)
[19:50] <Armand> That's what I'm considering. ;)
[19:50] <Encrypt> But, well... I have no PHP or anything like that
[19:50] <Armand> Depends on the content..
[19:50] <Encrypt> Only static !
[19:50] <Armand> Yeah, PHP is a different matter
[19:50] <Encrypt> (Or satic only :??)
[19:50] <Encrypt> static*
[19:50] <Armand> I need PHP options though.
[19:51] <Encrypt> Have a look at Nginx
[19:51] <Encrypt> It seems faster even with PHP
[19:55] <|Jeroen|> or lighthttpd
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[19:59] * linuxstb (~linuxstb@unaffiliated/linuxstb) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:01] <Encrypt> I've to go! See you! :)
[20:01] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-73-250.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[20:01] * Nemo7 (~nemo@unaffiliated/nemo7) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[20:05] * deffrag (~Dedec@unaffiliated/deffrag) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:06] <dreamon> Can someone take a look at this -> http://www.rpiblog.com/2012/11/interfacing-16x2-lcd-with-raspberry-pi.html
[20:06] <dreamon> I want to make the same one. But one question please.
[20:07] <dreamon> I thought all hardwarepins are only for 3V3 voltage. This man is using 5V for the lcd supply. could it be that this one might kill the rasp IO`s?
[20:07] * mike_t (~mike@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[20:21] <clever> Jx8p: nope, the bootloader doesnt know anything about how to unzip the kernel
[20:22] * acfrazier (~acfrazier@opensn0w/developer/acfrazier) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:23] <clever> Jx8p: i suspect that the kernel is writing to the serial port, with the default config
[20:25] * teepee (~teepee@p50846F8E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[20:39] <hobo> i'm trying to understand how linux boots in the RPi, so if i want to include a script to run on boot, i can either edit the rc.local or make a init.d file right?
[20:40] <clever> hobo: yep
[20:40] <clever> rc.local is the simplest
[20:40] <hobo> so what are the differences
[20:40] <clever> rc.local is the last thing to run in the bootup
[20:40] <hobo> ah okay
[20:40] <clever> an init.d script will run at a prio you set, so it can be anywhere in the bootup
[20:40] <hobo> ah okay
[20:40] <clever> and it can have a shutdown action aswell
[20:41] <clever> both of them come well after linux itself (the kernel) is running, so everything is going to be nearly identical to a desktop bootup
[20:41] <razvan> hey guys
[20:41] <razvan> stupid question
[20:41] <hobo> thanks clever
[20:42] <razvan> but i can't figure out how to use the csvitemexporter
[20:42] <razvan> I read through http://doc.scrapy.org/en/latest/topics/feed-exports.htm
[20:42] * bin_bash (~bin_bash@unaffiliated/bin-bash/x-0273453) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:42] <razvan> but still
[20:42] <razvan> i don't get it
[20:42] <razvan> i think i have a brain freeze
[20:42] <razvan> :)
[20:42] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[20:42] * parasciidic (~null@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:42] <bin_bash> I was able to resize using fsck on the pi thankfully
[20:42] <bin_bash> I should read the documentation more
[20:42] <razvan> ah well, wrong window -- my apologies
[20:43] <razvan> :)
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[20:44] * cpg is now known as cpg|away
[20:46] <clever> hobo: the only real big difference between x86 and the rpi is the area just before linux starts up
[20:46] <clever> on x86, the main cpu jumps into the bios at reset, the bios will init the hardware, load sector 0 from a hdd, and run that
[20:47] <clever> sector 0 then loads more code, runs that, eventualy leading to linux, which mounts / and runs /sbin/init
[20:47] <clever> on the rpi, upon reset, the GPU runs code in a rom on the chip, that loads bootcode.bin and runs it
[20:47] <clever> bootcode.bin loads and runs start.elf
[20:47] <clever> which then loads kernel.img, and things procede as before
[20:49] <hobo> hm, where can i read into more of this? just writing a bit about a project and i suppose it's good to put this kind of stuff into it
[20:50] <clever> the stuff before kernel.img gets loaded is closed-source, so they dont really document it fully
[20:50] <clever> but if you open up the kernel source, you can trace the entire bootup path
[20:50] <hobo> where do i find that?
[20:50] <hobo> i'm pretty new to linux
[20:51] * bge (~sticks@86-60-194-238-Dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) Quit (Quit: Fandangooo....)
[20:52] <clever> hobo: https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-3.6.y/init/main.c
[20:52] <clever> hobo: this is relatively in the middle of the bootup process, starts at start_kernel() on line 466
[20:53] <clever> if you run dmesg on your rpi, you can compare the output at the very top with things like line 508 and 510
[20:53] * cpg|away is now known as cpg
[20:57] <hobo> thanks clever
[20:57] * Delboy (~openwrt@2001:b68:fc00:8b09:200:ff:fe00:0) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:57] <clever> hobo: and over at arch/arm/kernel/head-common.S you can find where it calls start_kernel
[20:57] <clever> this is assembly, the part that sets up everything so its safe to run c code
[20:58] <clever> theres also something somewhere that does the unzipping of the kernel
[20:58] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Quit: brb)
[20:59] <clever> i think head.S line 58 is one of the main entry points
[20:59] <clever> yeah, it gets called after unzipping it
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[21:01] <hobo> is there like a flow chart or something of how an operating system boots?
[21:02] <clever> i dont think ive seen any, but theres probly one somewhere
[21:02] <hobo> i realize i know pretty much nothing about operating systems booting up
[21:02] <clever> i just grep the name of a function out of the whole thing
[21:02] <clever> for example, clever@c2d ~/build/android-pi-kernel/arch/arm $ grep -r start_kernel .
[21:02] <clever> ./kernel/head-common.S: b start_kernel
[21:02] <DeliriumTremens> hobo: Hit Power Button, See Login Screen, DONE!
[21:03] <clever> thats how i found head-common.S
[21:03] * m8 (~mor@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[21:03] <hobo> ah, wiki has an article
[21:03] <clever> DeliriumTremens: thats basicaly what the teacher at school did with the computer course :P
[21:03] <DeliriumTremens> haha
[21:03] <hobo> DeliriumTremens, great beer :P
[21:03] <clever> DeliriumTremens: he couldnt fix mistakes the students did in power point
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[21:03] <clever> DeliriumTremens: i fixed those mistakes, and i had never even used powerpoint before
[21:04] <hobo> lol
[21:04] * manitou (~manitou@unaffiliated/manitou) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[21:04] <DeliriumTremens> high school?
[21:04] <clever> yep
[21:04] * Cykey (~textual@modemcable119.94-162-184.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
[21:04] <DeliriumTremens> well
[21:04] <clever> it was simple, the student made a seperate project for every slide
[21:04] <DeliriumTremens> we didnt have a computer class in my highschool
[21:04] <clever> its an MDI window
[21:04] <DeliriumTremens> closest we had was Keyboarding, which was just teaching how to type
[21:04] <clever> tile the windows, then drag&drop slides between projects
[21:04] <DeliriumTremens> and we used spreadsheet software on OS/2 Warp for our accounting class
[21:04] <hobo> we had a class that taught us how to make resumes using ms word
[21:04] <clever> thats the basics of how windows works, any windows program using MDI
[21:04] <DeliriumTremens> that is the extend of computer usage at my high school
[21:05] <clever> lol
[21:05] <DeliriumTremens> extent*
[21:05] <hobo> mostly everybody played unreal tournament in class
[21:05] <clever> by the time i hit hishschool, they had windows xp pro in every room
[21:05] <DeliriumTremens> this was the late 90's
[21:05] <DeliriumTremens> at a parochial school
[21:05] <hobo> ah
[21:05] <DeliriumTremens> so computers were probably considered the devil outside of necessity
[21:06] <clever> hobo: it also helps to read 'ldd3' (linux device drivers 3)
[21:06] <clever> that explains a lot of the inner workings, after its done booting up
[21:06] * rolleiflex (~rolleifle@ Quit (Quit: rolleiflex)
[21:07] <clever> and allows me to know that CONFIG_KERNEL_GZIP is likely used for making the kernel compressed
[21:07] <clever> and that i can find more by using clever@c2d ~/build/android-pi-kernel $ find -name Kconfig -print0|xargs -0 grep CONFIG_KERNEL_GZIP
[21:09] <clever> ./init/Kconfig:config HAVE_KERNEL_GZIP
[21:11] <clever> arch/arm/boot/compressed/decompress.c:#ifdef CONFIG_KERNEL_GZIP
[21:11] <clever> hobo: aha, this is where it unzips itself
[21:11] * WeeJeWel (~wjw@ Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[21:12] * cpg is now known as cpg|away
[21:19] <discopig> lol
[21:19] * Bochi (~bochi@ppp-93-104-158-237.dynamic.mnet-online.de) Quit (Quit: Adee)
[21:20] <hobo> this is neat stuff clever
[21:21] <hobo> i shall grep around some more
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[21:30] <jonkristian> I've read that android can run on the pi, but are there any good sources released yet?
[21:30] <bin_bash> I don't think it would run very well
[21:31] <hobo> ^
[21:32] <clever> broadcom is working on android 4.x and it seemed to run fairly fast in the demo
[21:32] <clever> but they havent released it
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[21:32] <jonkristian> doH
[21:32] <clever> cyanogenmod has also been modified to run on the pi, but it lacks the hw accel and gpu drivers
[21:32] <clever> just moving the mouse arround on mine uses over 100% cpu
[21:32] <clever> if i move the mouse for 30 seconds, then let go
[21:32] <clever> it keeps moving
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[21:32] <jonkristian> lol
[21:33] <clever> it cant keep up
[21:33] <jonkristian> So what's the hold up with 4.x?
[21:33] <clever> there is also a bug in the kernel, that interacts weirdly with a bug in android
[21:33] <clever> any resolution over 600 pixels high causes page flipping to not work (kernel bug, easily fixed)
[21:34] <clever> but, if you do have page flipping working (composite out, 800x600, or fix the kernel)
[21:34] <clever> android suddenly starts drawing black to the screen, and only black
[21:34] <clever> so the only way to make it work right now, is to break page flipping
[21:35] <clever> thats where i'm stuck, and i havent seen much from other people working on it
[21:35] <jonkristian> ah
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[21:35] <clever> but i only started a few days ago
[21:35] <clever> i dont know enough about android to track the problem down
[21:36] <clever> i get lost in the HAL layer
[21:36] <dansan> Now I have to figure out this MCP2210. This is wierd. It's a generic-hid (USB) device and people just talk to it from userspace. I'm not used to that type of thinking
[21:37] -RichiH- [Global Notice] Hi all! Please see https://blog.freenode.net/2013/03/insert-witty-title-here/ or https://plus.google.com/104326727082310562426/posts/bBmTomwNsBU as you will all kill the blog with your dDoS, anyway.
[21:37] <dansan> awww, so pretty
[21:37] <clever> dansan: i would use libusb
[21:38] <clever> but that needs r/w to the /dev/bus/usb/ node, and might be overkill since it doesnt require hid devices
[21:38] <dansan> no wai, this is written in brainfuck!?
[21:38] <dansan> sorry, I meant the blog posting
[21:39] <dansan> clever: I guess I'll have to look into it. My brain says "there should be a driver in the kernel that corresponds to the device! So let it be written, so let it be done!"
[21:39] * zakora (~NC@tok69-4-82-236-111-173.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:39] <clever> dansan: kernel drivers are harder to debug and write, one wrong step and the whole system can crash
[21:40] <clever> userspace stuff can be ran under gdb and cant crash the system
[21:40] <dansan> oops, sorry admins, I didn't mean to cuss, that's what the language is called :(
[21:40] <dansan> hah! I've yet to crash my whole system! :)
[21:40] <clever> luckily, the rpi has a kernel debugger in the kernel
[21:40] <clever> and it will respond over the serial port
[21:40] <dansan> well, I did corrupt things pretty good once and had to reboot
[21:40] <clever> so you can debug kernel level faults
[21:40] <dansan> yeah, I got the little cable thingie for early kernel deaths too :)
[21:41] <dansan> never used one though
[21:41] <clever> and there is the issue of compiling modules so they remain compatible with the live kernel
[21:41] <clever> much simpler to just userspace it
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[21:41] <dansan> clever: yeah, you have to use your current kernel's sources, but you can rmmod it as long as you didn't screw up so badly as to tie up a resource that you can't release
[21:42] <clever> yeo
[21:42] <dansan> but I guess you're right :(
[21:42] <clever> same kernel source, and config, and you need the ksyms file
[21:42] <dansan> afk...
[21:42] <clever> more of a pain to make it all match up
[21:42] <dansan> oh, I use Gentoo, so never had a problem matching them up -- just all of the other challenges
[21:42] <clever> ah
[21:42] <clever> i was using the pre-built kernel on the rpi github
[21:42] <dansan> oh yeah! I did host my system once!
[21:43] <clever> so i had to figure out what version they used, and grab that exact kernel from their github
[21:43] <clever> gentoo, you built it yourself, so you have the source already!
[21:43] <dansan> I booted a kernel where I had messed with the process scheduler and one of my raid devices had to be rebuilt! Seriously need a test computer before I do that again
[21:43] * justadoit (~justadoit@ Quit (Quit: justadoit)
[21:43] <clever> lol
[21:43] <clever> i havent messed with raid any
[21:43] <clever> but i do have lvm on a few systems
[21:43] <dansan> yeah, I screwed it. It panic the first time it tried to switch to a new task :)
[21:44] * comradekingu (~comradeki@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:44] <clever> one system has 4 drives, with 6-7 partitions lvm'ed into a single 500gig mess
[21:44] <dansan> really afk this time!
[21:44] <clever> horid slow
[21:44] <clever> and insanely fragmented, at many levels
[21:45] <clever> the lvm volume itself is in 21 fragments, scattered over 3 partitions
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[21:56] <ekodan> what's the most stable power adapter for Pi with EU plug?
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[21:56] <Armand> I'm using the newer (flat) Apple charger myself.
[21:56] <hobo> i've been using my adapter that came with my HP touch pad
[21:57] * Geniack_ (~Geniack@unaffiliated/geniack) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[21:57] <Armand> Can't say for anything with an EW plug though.
[21:57] <ekodan> I keep getting voltage close to 4.75 with wireless keyboard transmitter in USB and full CPU load
[21:58] <dansan> clever: OMG!
[21:58] <Armand> Constant 5v from Apple.. which is damned good.
[21:58] <dansan> clever: I'm glad I thought out my LVM carefully and used 3 identicle drives :)
[21:58] <hobo> my charger is 5v 2a, haven't had any problems
[21:59] <ekodan> I don't have any with Raspbian too, but Arch has trouble with heavy load
[21:59] <ekodan> SD card I/O starts to fail
[22:00] <Armand> :(
[22:00] <Armand> I set my 5v regulators to a constant 5.25v, from the solar plant.. that compensates for the loss on the USB ports.
[22:00] <dansan> clever: In fact (get ready to laugh) I had to grow several volumes and they got fragmented, so I recently booted into single user mode and moved them around until I had them all contiguious again. It took about 12 hours.
[22:01] <dansan> dang, gotta run again :(
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[22:22] <clever> dansan: ive writen a php script to defrag lvm
[22:22] <clever> dansan: but it works best when you umount the volume first
[22:22] <clever> and yeah, its damn slow :P
[22:23] <clever> the reason its in 21 fragments, is because of resizing it dozens of times
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[22:42] <Perkele> does anybody use youtube-dl and whitey to watch yt videos? i feel like it's not buffering when I pause
[22:43] <Perkele> it always picks the highest quality but my internet is a little too slow for that
[22:43] * jonkristian (~jonkristi@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:43] <chithead> youtube-dl has -f and -F parameters so you can choose quality
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[22:44] <Perkele> i wish i could pause it and wait until it's buffered,, preferably with a progress bar
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[22:45] <Perkele> i guess i can just use youtube-dl && omxplayer ...
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[22:55] <fr0g911> morning
[22:55] <CR_Sean> afternoon
[22:55] * teepee (~teepee@p50846286.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[22:55] <fr0g911> ;)
[22:57] <|Jeroen|> evening
[22:57] <CR_Sean> as i said... afternoon
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[22:58] * JethroTroll is now known as RaycisCharles
[22:58] <|Jeroen|> you cant call 23u afternoon
[22:59] <Lartza> I don't get this CMA... I want all memory for ARM except it could release some for GPU if I start XBMC for example
[23:00] <CR_Sean> no, but i can call 5pm afternoon
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[23:05] <gordonDrogon> evening.
[23:06] <|Jeroen|> aha
[23:08] <gordonDrogon> 22pm here.
[23:09] <hobo> 1409 here
[23:09] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[23:09] <yang> I am wondering if RPI has OpenCL ?
[23:10] <chithead> no
[23:10] <chithead> it can do some kind of compute on the gpu though (theora decode is implemented that way in the firmware)
[23:11] <yang> So I cannot use AMD APP sdk
[23:13] <Grievre> crud
[23:13] <Grievre> if apt crashes halfway through installing a package, what's the best way to clean that mess up?
[23:13] * Spiffy (~Spiffy@unaffiliated/spiffy) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:14] <|Jeroen|> Grievre, install gentoo
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[23:32] * Armand throws worn-out SD cards at gordonDrogon
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[23:33] <gordonDrogon> put them in the post...
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[23:35] <bertrik> just curious, how does a worn-out sd card fail? Does it give errors, or just return bogus data, etc.?
[23:35] <OpenSys> hello folks
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[23:39] <dansan> bertrik: I think that most SD cards error check themselves and will fail (in 32k-ish chunks) when it can't get it's internal checksums to match up
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[23:39] <dansan> bertrik: In other words, it will return an I/O error upon read
[23:40] <dansan> bertrik: if that happens, I would reccomend that... uhh, program... ddrescue, that's it
[23:40] <dansan> or gnu-ddrescue
[23:41] <dansan> bertrik: It's important to read the directions well before using however
[23:41] <bertrik> dansan: ok, makes sense
[23:41] <dansan> bertrik: http://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/manual/ddrescue_manual.html#Examples
[23:42] <dansan> It will generate a big dat file and a log file, both are important because you can make multiple rescue attempts and (amazingly) sometimes recover data even from those damaged areas
[23:43] <bertrik> dansan: I'm not so much interested in ddrescue, as in sd card failure modes
[23:43] <dansan> I like to go forward once, skipping 128k chunks in case of an error, and then run it backwards w/o the big skip
[23:43] <dansan> oh, lol! I thought you had one dying
[23:43] <Armand> Le sigh. :/
[23:43] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] <troulouliou_dev> hi is there a package that install the default desktop icons or is it just like this on the initial raspbian image ?
[23:44] <dansan> Armand: why the sigh?
[23:45] <Armand> Needs more money. :(
[23:45] <dansan> oh, :*(
[23:45] <Armand> I need to throw another ?30/35 at the electronics for my rPi project.
[23:45] <Armand> I'm just holding back, because I'm visiting the GF in New Jersey on the 19th.
[23:46] <dansan> Is that the Euro symbol? :)
[23:46] * eNcoR3 (~enk@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:46] <Armand> Hell no
[23:46] <dansan> :(
[23:46] <Armand> UK pounds.
[23:46] <dansan> oh!!!!!!!!!!
[23:46] <CR_Sean> ??? GBP, dude.
[23:46] <Armand> ?
[23:46] <dansan> hah!!! you have a long distance relationship~! hahah!! (I'm only laughing because after 4 years, my GF finally moved to where I live)
[23:46] <eNcoR3> anyone knows a good lace to order one? i need international shipping.
[23:47] <dansan> wow, long distance relationships are *hard*!!!
[23:47] <Armand> dansan, it's cool.. she's a pain in the <rear-end> most days. :P
[23:47] <dansan> lol!!!
[23:47] <dansan> What are you making anyway?
[23:47] <Armand> Power distribution boards.. to drive 60(!) rPi.
[23:47] <dansan> eNcoR3: I dunno about international, but I got mine from adafruit or mdm or something
[23:47] <dansan> w00t!!
[23:48] <eNcoR3> ok
[23:48] <dansan> Do you know about the KIS3R33S?
[23:48] * lars_t_h (~lars_t_h@002128057189.mbb.telenor.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:48] <eNcoR3> does these can run eggdrops??
[23:48] <eNcoR3> i am hpoing i could use for that too
[23:48] <dansan> They are a PSU module that's been pulled off of something recently and there's a flood of them (used) on the market
[23:48] * tomeff (~effik@142.243.broadband9.iol.cz) Quit (Quit: tomeff)
[23:48] <eNcoR3> *hoping
[23:49] <troulouliou_dev> is it possible to acquire the pi board without the pink box ? i get 2 from rs and they come with a pink box
[23:49] <dansan> Armand: they are very alterable for different voltages and even currents. Although to get the current much higher, you'll probably have to reinforce some of the traces with soldered wires, I haven't gotten to that point yet, but they are roughly $1USD each
[23:49] <Armand> troulouliou_dev, modmypi.com
[23:50] <Armand> dansan, We're designing the top-end of the PDU to handle 30A.. it then splits at different points.
[23:51] <dansan> Armand: then again, maybe that's not a good solution for 60 RPis! Are you just making a single PSU with two big rails?
[23:51] <troulouliou_dev> Armand, i mean soes all the reseller sell it with a box ?
[23:51] <dansan> ahh, are you removing the 3.3v regulator for the pis?
[23:51] <Armand> Not yet
[23:51] <dansan> I understand you can save a ton of juice that way
[23:51] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@60.Red-80-25-210.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:51] <Armand> I'm going to supply 5v via USB
[23:51] <Armand> I'll look at the 3.3v later
[23:52] <dansan> For our project, we'll eventually remove that regulator because our PSU has to supply 3.3 for lots of stuff anyway
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[23:52] <Armand> I've got solar as the primary source.. and I'm thinking of splitting the backup transformers, having 2 that will supply 20A peak.
[23:53] <dansan> solar, cool! :) But why transformers instead of switching PSU?
[23:53] * dansan doesn't know much about solar power units
[23:53] <Armand> But, the PDU will split the 12v into 10 ports.. each will then have a 5v reg driving 6 USB ports.
[23:54] <troulouliou_dev> i va no access to pcmanfm anymore under x session ; no desktop icon ; no file manager ... can anybody help ?
[23:54] <Armand> dansan, transformers... AC/DC!
[23:54] <dansan> blew! transformers = waste :(
[23:54] <Armand> No matter..
[23:54] <Armand> It just needs to supply 12v power. :P
[23:54] <dansan> then again, I'm insane about efficiency. (I'm a tweaker-programmer)
[23:55] <Armand> Sure.. if I *can* make it cheaper, I'm open to options.
[23:55] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: *pouf*)
[23:55] <Armand> But.. supplying from mains isn't an issue. ;)
[23:55] <dansan> hmm, what type of output do these panels have?
[23:56] <dansan> in range of volts (I'm sure it depends upon how much sun they are getting)
[23:56] <Armand> I've been using a 12v, 20W panel for my primary testing.. but it's going to have to go higher to power 60 units.
[23:57] <dansan> hmm
[23:58] <clever> Armand: ive got a few youtube videos you may want to see
[23:58] <dansan> Armand: So a switching power supply just has a fast switching transistor that turns the power on and off and feeds a (usually small or medium) capacitor, so that the output voltage is the desired level
[23:58] <Armand> I need to supply a constant 720W minimum, I think.
[23:58] <clever> just cant find the link yet...
[23:58] <Armand> clever, I can't anyways.. no sound and I'm going home soon.
[23:59] <clever> Armand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-Z8gXaHozg
[23:59] <clever> queue them up for later
[23:59] <Armand> lol
[23:59] <clever> its got tons of info on solar power
[23:59] <dansan> hmm, my brother is the electronics wiz, but I bet you can even run two switching PSUs to double the current, since you are more than halving the voltage -- and of course, w/o the loss that transformers have
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[23:59] <Armand> I still don't have sound...
[23:59] <clever> Armand: mainly, you want mppt chargers for the solar panels
[23:59] <Armand> I see those..
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