#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2013-07-04

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <poli> That's the internal SD controller, isn't it?
[0:00] <gordonDrogon> nor a sensible explanation. the SD card does not know what you erase, so can't re-cycle those sectors/blocks, etc.
[0:01] <gordonDrogon> what's really needed is a sensible filing system that does know how many times each block thingy has been written and where data has been erases...
[0:01] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@202.92.67.178) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:01] * Joost (~Joost@unaffiliated/joost) Quit (Quit: Joost)
[0:01] <gordonDrogon> and I think f2fs is getting there.
[0:01] <poli> gordonDrogon: I image so. There are some file systems that do the balancing themselves, jffs for example, but using standard ext2 I don't think this information is available.
[0:01] <gordonDrogon> however, from my point of view, I'm happy to spend another fiver when (if) one wears out.
[0:01] <poli> gordonDrogon: jffs does that
[0:02] <chod> nice to know when its nearly expired
[0:02] <poli> gordonDrogon: In a rather clever way IIRC.
[0:03] <gordonDrogon> I think f2fs is similar to jffs/jffs2 .... newer though.
[0:03] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: This is a fundamental misunderstanding.
[0:04] <FR^2> quite interesting, f2fs. I'll try that, too some time :)
[0:04] * [SkG] (~sconde@unaffiliated/skg/x-897332) Quit (Quit: Saliendo)
[0:04] <gordonDrogon> SpeedEvil, ok - show me a makers website that explains how their levelling works.
[0:04] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: The SD has large blocks. There is not a strict 1:1 mapping between filesystem blocks and eraseblocks
[0:04] <gordonDrogon> then I'll shutup.
[0:04] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: There _CANNOT_ be - or SDs would be about a thousand times less reliable than they are.
[0:04] <poli> FR^2: I have the impression that the SD controller does something like that. I don't think it would be a good idea to use such file systems on a SD card. They are meant for raw flash access.
[0:05] <gordonDrogon> really what doesd it matter the block/size/structure- once you have written to all of it once, nothing on the SD card can tell where the lease written block is - as that might be in-use by something else.
[0:05] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: It doesn't work that way - filesystem blocks and eraseblocks are not the same.
[0:05] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:05] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: There is not a 1:1 mapping - it's stored in a table. And there are spare eraseblocks.
[0:05] <SpeedEvil> Same as with modern hard disks.
[0:06] <gordonDrogon> I know the 'block' sizes are different.
[0:06] <gordonDrogon> sure, but how many spare blocks?
[0:06] <gordonDrogon> once they have all been used then what...
[0:06] * jaegeri (~gfgf@a91-154-47-101.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:06] <SpeedEvil> If the SD detects that a block read error occurred, and it's past a threshold, then they will allocate a different spare block to the secotors.
[0:06] <FR^2> poli: You've got a point.
[0:06] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: You're fucked - and the SD falls over.
[0:06] * ChanServ sets mode +o gordonDrogon
[0:06] <SpeedEvil> Argh.
[0:06] <chod> heh
[0:06] * ChanServ sets mode -o gordonDrogon
[0:07] <SpeedEvil> Wrong channel
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[0:08] <SpeedEvil> But it's not related to block writes on the filesystem - as there is a disconnect between filesystem blocks and eraseblocks. If you write the first block a thousand times, then you will wear the first erase-zone, which is the collection of eraseblocks that that filesystem block can occur on.
[0:08] <poli> By the way, what would be a reliable SD card to use?
[0:09] <SpeedEvil> Once all the free eraseblocks in that erasezone are dead, problems occur, and future errors may cause the card to lock up.
[0:09] <poli> model/brand
[0:09] <SpeedEvil> Or do random bad stuff.
[0:09] <gordonDrogon> so you're saying that a 1GB SD card has 32GB of actual storage (for example)?
[0:09] <SpeedEvil> No.
[0:09] * jakeri (~gfgf@a91-154-47-101.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:10] <SpeedEvil> It has a percent or so of spare eraseblocks, and is segmented into zones which map roughly disk blocks to eraseblocks.
[0:11] <SpeedEvil> So sector 1 might map onto eraseblocks 1-100, dependant on where the wear leveling decides to put it. Bloicks 101 -105 are spare, and can substitute for any eraseblock in that zone - but only in that zone.
[0:12] <SpeedEvil> The zoning is to reduce seek-time, and required RAM for the controller.
[0:12] * SpeedEvil is annoyed he can't find the nice page with tests and sources for this.
[0:12] <gordonDrogon> when you find it let me know and I'll go & read it.
[0:13] <chod> :D
[0:13] <SpeedEvil> The 'right' way is to simply log structure it, and have a block->eraseblock translation table. SD cards don't do it because the memory to do this is expensive, and the controller would get more spendy.
[0:13] <gordonDrogon> I've not seen anything that adequately explains it at all.
[0:13] <SpeedEvil> And yes, of course TRIM/understanding the FS helps - but it's not all of it.
[0:15] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] <poli> http://www.mpi.ch/files/File/Innodisk/InnoDisk_Industrial_SD_Datasheet_1.0.pdf item 2.3 gives a hint
[0:16] <poli> "InnoDisk Industrial SD Card uses a wear-leveling algorithm to ensure that consecutive
[0:16] <poli> writes of a specific sector are not written physically to the same page and block in the
[0:16] <poli> 8 1.0 Datasheet, September 2010 InnoDisk Corp. Industrial SD Card Datasheet
[0:16] <poli> flash. This spreads flash media usage evenly across all pages, thereby extending
[0:16] <poli> flash lifetime"
[0:16] <poli> sorry, didn't think it would convert to \n
[0:16] * Spiffy (~Spiffy@unaffiliated/spiffy) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:17] <SpeedEvil> The wear leveling is basically mandated by the flash chips used. Look at a raw flash datasheet. It specifically says 'capacity X after Y erases' - and gives instructions about what you have to do for block failures in use.
[0:17] <poli> So seems like the controller maps the same sector coming from the file system to different places on the flash base.
[0:18] * \\Mr_C\\ (mrc@adsl-98-89-7-24.mgm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
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[0:20] <poli> Hell everyone seems to do it differently. Will most likely depend on the brand/model specification. :(
[0:21] * cave (~cave@178-191-71-157.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[0:21] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[0:21] <poli> IIRC SD wasn't meant to be a storage standard, as Compact Flash was. People just liked it for some reason (form factor maybe?) and they adapt the serial connection to a processor that does the flash management.
[0:22] <gordonDrogon> think I'll go back to core memory.
[0:22] <SpeedEvil> SD was meant to be storage.
[0:22] <SpeedEvil> It also supported (well, supports) SDIO cards.
[0:22] <SpeedEvil> But they were never much used.
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[0:25] * Yachtsman (~Yachtsman@107.33.87.180) Quit (Quit: gogo)
[0:25] * Viper (~Viper@unaffiliated/outofcontrol/x-1373891) Quit (Quit: Free Software, Free Hardware, Free Culture, Free Spectrum)
[0:26] <gordonDrogon> I used CF in 100's of little embedded PBXs. and IDE Flash modules too.
[0:27] <gordonDrogon> Still have my precious and stupidly expensive little IBM microdrive - CF size with spinning rust inside...
[0:28] <Firehopper> I have one of those iomega 340 meg ones :)
[0:28] <gordonDrogon> that was a whopping 1GB.
[0:28] * Firehopper tiredyawns and wants my udoo :(
[0:29] <Firehopper> I"m getting a bit worried. they havent updated in like 5 days.
[0:29] <poli> I have a bunch of perforated cards. No, unfortunatly I never used them. Found them in a box on their way to the incinarated when I was in the university. With the school brand and all.
[0:30] <Firehopper> they dont seem to communicate with thier supporters much
[0:30] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: I have some early 20MB 1.3" IDE drives
[0:30] <Firehopper> if I dont see something soon, I might see if I can cancel and buy a wandboard quad instead.
[0:31] <SpeedEvil> And 100+ PCMCIA 130MB drives in various states of brokenness I pulled out of a skip round the back of the factory.
[0:33] <poli> I have a IBM PC-XT. The IBM PC-XT.
[0:34] * taza_ (~zap@unaffiliated/taza) Quit (Quit: No longer here)
[0:34] <gordonDrogon> take an axe to it
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[0:34] <gordonDrogon> oldest IDE drive I have is 280MB - was in my first PC.
[0:34] * FR^2 (~fr@farsquare.de) Quit (Quit: und weg...)
[0:35] <poli> I have a bunch of 20 MB ones. And one double-size (2 bays high) 80MB
[0:35] <gordonDrogon> I used to have a 10MB drive on my old Apple II, but that was part of the sacrifice when I did the big move 25 years ago )-:
[0:35] <poli> Oh the big foots... gosh that was a crazy idea.
[0:35] * Datalink|Elsewhe is now known as Datalink
[0:35] * robscomputer (~robscompu@nat/yahoo/x-bcismfghmjxpoyes) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:36] * Bushmills moved from MDCRs to 8 inch floppy drives
[0:36] <poli> I have a 80286 "lap top".
[0:36] <SpeedEvil> poli: Bigfoot was a different thing. They were 10-20G or so
[0:36] <SpeedEvil> poli: Early double/full height drives weren't bigfoot. It was a quantum brand.
[0:36] <Datalink> has anyone here done Libreoffice scripting?
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[0:36] <gordonDrogon> not sure this was called a bigfoot. it was 25+ years ago though!
[0:36] <poli> SpeedEvil: I know. I had a few. But the form factor was bizzare for their time.
[0:36] <SpeedEvil> poli: Sure - but not 20M
[0:37] <SpeedEvil> or 80M
[0:37] <poli> SpeedEvil True, they were much after the 20MB ones.
[0:37] <SpeedEvil> double height drives weren't really unsual
[0:37] <poli> I just physically got one in my hand, that's why I mentioned. :)
[0:38] <poli> I remember my first PC-AT has one 5-1/4 floppy drive and a damn tape drive that I never learned how to use. I was around 12-13 and I spend a great deal of time trying to make the tape work like a regular disk. Had no idea it needed special software.
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[1:19] <ShadowJK> Seagate's bigfoot was a 5.25" platter drive, around 2Gig, iirc
[1:20] <ShadowJK> it was marketed as slow but cheap and big.
[1:21] <ShadowJK> Intel is going all the way with SSDs now, killing trim support, big phat flat indirection table fully in ram, for full log-structured algorithm :)
[1:22] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:23] <ShadowJK> Basically it's engineered to "not care" about filesystem and free/occupied blocks :)
[1:25] <ShadowJK> iirc about 20% overprovisioning or so
[1:25] <ShadowJK> That is, a 500g drive has 600g physical storage
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[1:45] <IT_Sean> Katty: http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3023/l13r.jpg
[1:45] <IT_Sean> ^ fresh baked noms
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[1:51] <Nanashi> Hey, can I attach around 6 buzzers to a Pi?
[1:52] <pksato> only 6?
[1:52] <Nanashi> Actually, I don't have one yet...
[1:52] * user82 (~user82@unaffiliated/user82) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:52] <Nanashi> dunno exactly how everything works
[1:52] <Nanashi> 10+ would be better
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[1:54] <pksato> with out any port expander, 17 devices can be connected, and individualy controled.
[1:54] <Nanashi> yay
[1:54] <Nanashi> You see, Win 7 killed off the internal speaker beep (MS, you bastard) and a mobo only connects to 1 anyways.
[1:54] <pksato> but, need a circuit called driver to activate the device.
[1:54] <Nanashi> Figured I could grab one of these sweet babies and create an orchestrated beeping song.
[1:55] <donta> Look what I'm playing with: http://imgur.com/a/0ulS1
[1:56] <Nanashi> USB miner wat
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[1:57] <donta> Nanashi: that's a box of over 100 of them :P
[1:57] <pksato> I realy, dont understand bitcoin. :)
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[1:58] * Vlad- is now known as Vlad
[1:59] <Nanashi> I hear they're way overpriced.
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[2:14] <technomancy> I've read in a few places that gpio interrupts aren't supported on the stock raspbian kernel; is this still true?
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[2:29] <Coburn> That 320x240 screen that fits over the R-Pi looks great
[2:29] <Coburn> might grab myself one
[2:31] * Firehopper (~Firehoppe@pool-71-175-183-176.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:31] <donta> Coburn: link?
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[2:39] <Coburn> donta: on forums
[2:39] <Coburn> I'll find it after I make coffee
[2:39] <donta> cool
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[3:11] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[3:11] <nerdboy> yo
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[3:14] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:15] <IT_Sean> hello
[3:17] <nerdboy> phase 1 mobile pi deployment went well this week...
[3:18] <nerdboy> one minor volume bug in mpc, but other than that...
[3:21] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:22] * davesleep is now known as davezZz
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[3:36] <LaunchDirector> what was the PI optimized xbmc counterpart?
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[3:38] <LaunchDirector> openelec?
[3:39] * IT_Sean is running OpenELEC on his raspi
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[3:44] <LaunchDirector> IT_Sean: im guessing raspbmc is a different distro to openelec
[3:44] <LaunchDirector> am i right?
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[3:50] <nerdboy> raspbmc is raspbian/xbmc i believe...
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[4:28] <JakeSays2> hey does anyone know if its possible to detect when a wifi dongle goes down?
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[4:28] * JakeSays2 is now known as JakeSays
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[4:36] <ricksl> Hey jake, how goes the good fight.
[4:37] <JakeSays> ricksl: going pretty good, and you?
[4:37] * harish (harish@nat/redhat/x-sivlqadycrhxixox) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:37] <ricksl> I am pricing and comparing soldering irons
[4:37] <JakeSays> yeah i need to get a new one of those
[4:37] <ricksl> I am ready to move up from radiocrap stations, I just "broke" my 3rd one.
[4:38] <JakeSays> once upon a time i had a really nice weller
[4:38] <ricksl> and by broke I mean the tip is shot.
[4:38] <ricksl> the other two had the heating element go bad
[4:38] <ricksl> I want a hakko, or ayoue
[4:39] <ricksl> and I want a full set of things to go with it, I am talking flux pens, brass sponges, desolder vaccuums and such
[4:40] <IanCormac> Tip: When your soldering iron tip gets all shitty and worn out, use a high-carbon steel pocket knife to scrape the oxidation off the soldering tip. It will work perfectly for 5-10 minutes, at which point you scrape it off again
[4:42] <ricksl> uhhh thats exactly what you don't want to do. you are just scraping off the coating and getting to the copper
[4:42] <IanCormac> No, that's exactly what I want to do
[4:42] <IanCormac> because I went from a non-working solder tip to a working solder tip
[4:42] <IanCormac> With no apparent side effects
[4:42] <ricksl> and when i say the tip was shot I mean that some flux I was using ate away at it, it was some really bad lead free solder with some really acidic flux
[4:42] <IanCormac> Not really worried about fucking up a tip when it's already useless
[4:43] <IanCormac> I'm just talking about in general
[4:43] <JakeSays> IanCormac: language, dude.
[4:43] <IanCormac> When your tip inevitably gets worn out from the ravages of time
[4:43] * asaru (~whydent@unaffiliated/asaru) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:43] <ricksl> yeah but there is a way to take care of it.
[4:44] <IanCormac> really Jake? Who in this channel is going to be damaged by me saying fuck? Somehow I doubt anyone hanging out on IRC can't handle it
[4:44] <steve_rox> i cant handle it wahhhhh
[4:44] <Firehopper> ian, still watch your language
[4:44] <sney> I was thinking about making a joke about my tip being worn out
[4:44] <ricksl> I feel so damaged now.
[4:44] <Firehopper> there could be underage kids here
[4:44] <IanCormac> I'm watching
[4:44] <IanCormac> Oh yeah, lots of underage kids on IRC
[4:44] <sney> the raspberry pi is supposed to be a learning device. so you never know.
[4:44] <JakeSays> IanCormac: this channel is a place for everyone to come learn about the pi, and that includes young minds.
[4:44] <ricksl> Oh woe is me, I am actually 10.
[4:45] <IanCormac> Ten year olds can handle some swearing. It's good for their character
[4:45] <JakeSays> IanCormac: show some respect.
[4:45] <steve_rox> good for their character eh
[4:45] <steve_rox> how stupid
[4:46] <sney> it's never really the kids you worry about but their parents seeing it and going all NO YOU CAN'T GO THERE AND LEARN THINGS ABOUT COMPUTERS, NOW GET BACK TO SHOVELING POOP or whatever menial labour occupation that hypothetical kid would be stuck in were it not for the $35 computer
[4:46] <IanCormac> JakeSays: Respect whom?
[4:46] <JakeSays> IanCormac: well, yourself for one, but more importantly everyone else in here.
[4:47] <steve_rox> i sence he wont last long in this community
[4:47] <IanCormac> JakeSays: I fail to understand how I am disrespecting anyone by using words you get your panties in a knot about.
[4:47] <sney> alternately, know your audience. there are hundreds of thousands of irc channels where you can say "fuck" as much as you want. if you cut down here, it's not like you will be injured by the loss
[4:47] <sney> obviously it is not really welcome
[4:47] <steve_rox> i think hes probly enjoying this argument
[4:47] <IanCormac> sney: I won't be able to weave beautiful expressive rhetoric :'(
[4:47] <JakeSays> IanCormac: yes, i'm not at all surprised you do not understand, given your atitude.
[4:48] <IanCormac> JakeSays: Well it would be great if you could explain it to me then!
[4:48] <JakeSays> IanCormac: i did.
[4:48] <JakeSays> i made it quite clear.
[4:48] <steve_rox> i become tired of this oaf
[4:48] * acovrig (~acovrig@c-71-228-232-202.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:48] <sney> IanCormac: like working with a really slow armv6 computer, it's pretty impressive the kind of creativity that arises when you have some limitations. :P
[4:49] <IanCormac> JakeSays: Well I'm still just so confused :'( You'll have to show some respect to me and put up with my expressive freedom
[4:49] <JakeSays> IanCormac: i most certainly do not.
[4:49] <steve_rox> perhaps you should express it in another channel
[4:49] <ricksl> The sarcasm in this channel, it is almost tangible, its choking me.
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[4:50] <JakeSays> ricksl: do you know which kernel module is loaded when a wifi dongle is attached?
[4:50] <sney> it depends on the wifi dongle.
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[4:51] <sney> there's a handful of different usb NIC chips that seem to work on the pi, I don't have the list in front of me but I think ralink and atheros are the usual suspects
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[4:52] <acovrig> I had something like the MCP23017 in mind but wasn't available, so I got the LM339, are they two entirely different things, or one is just smaller than the other?
[4:52] <sney> so for them you'd see rt2800usb or ath9k_htc loaded, respectively
[4:52] <JakeSays> sney: ah rt2800usb it is. thanks
[4:53] <ricksl> Whoops sorry missed that, was using the bathroom
[4:53] <sney> acovrig: for wifi dongles? the difficulty is that it depends on what's inside, linux generally isn't even aware of what the model says on the outside
[4:53] <sney> 'lsusb' will give you a clue as to what it is
[4:54] <ricksl> yeah you would be surprised by how many dongles use identical drivers and chipsets
[4:54] <sney> I wouldn't, but I'm an ancient debian nerd
[4:54] <acovrig> sney: wrong user? I'm not talking about wifi, I'm talking about port expanders
[4:54] <sney> acovrig: not wrong user, just no context on the question so I figured you were joining in on the existing question
[4:56] <acovrig> thats fine, I'm wondering how to plug the LM339 into the breadboard (I've never dealt with anything like this)
[4:57] * ChanServ sets mode +o shiftplusone
[4:57] * shiftplusone sets mode +b *!*Iancormac@*.satx.res.rr.com
[4:57] * IanCormac was kicked from #raspberrypi by shiftplusone
[4:58] <JakeSays> hmm. which one of these options makes the most sense? http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/4120/how-to-automatically-reconnect-wifi
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[5:13] <ricksl> so jake still working on that printer?
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[5:19] <JakeSays> ricksl: yup. hope to do some research on stepper drivers this weekend
[5:19] <ricksl> ya know what you should implent in yours that no one else has so far
[5:20] <JakeSays> hmm. i tried ssh'ing in to my pi at 192.168.* - mistyped it as 192.169.* - and got a login prompt, my credentials wouldnt work. lol.
[5:20] * Piffer (~Piffer@unaffiliated/piffer) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[5:20] <JakeSays> ricksl: whats that?
[5:20] <ricksl> make a closed thermal envelope, esentially it keeps the entire build area heated.
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[5:21] <JakeSays> hmm
[5:21] <ricksl> the professional 3d printer i used in school actually kept the entire build area at like 150 degrees.
[5:21] <JakeSays> that would actually be pretty easy to do with this chassis i'm using
[5:21] <ricksl> since it used abs plastic, and abs binds better at higher temperatures
[5:21] <ricksl> thus the need for heated build platforms.
[5:21] <JakeSays> right
[5:22] <JakeSays> i have no idea what i'm going to use for the print head tho
[5:22] <ricksl> I have a few ideas
[5:23] <JakeSays> oh?
[5:23] <ricksl> http://www.qu-bd.com/
[5:23] <ricksl> it was a kickstarter campaign to start designing an "open source" extruder
[5:24] <JakeSays> hmm
[5:25] <ricksl> but it uses a thinner filament which aparently is more expensive.
[5:25] <JakeSays> wow a dual port extruder is only $68
[5:25] <JakeSays> heh. i can probably build this entire thing for under $300
[5:25] <ricksl> Hm some people say they love it others dislike it, never easy finding info on niche stuff
[5:26] <JakeSays> oh. thats w/o the steppers.
[5:26] <JakeSays> w/ steppers its $100
[5:27] <ricksl> hm
[5:27] * Gazpaxxo (~bizarro_1@168.Red-83-49-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:28] <ricksl> printrbot has just the hotend http://printrbot.com/product-category/hot-end/
[5:28] <ricksl> but no feeder
[5:29] <JakeSays> heh. i'll make one out of a hot glue gun
[5:30] <JakeSays> man, mine will be a *lot* more sturdier than the prinrbot
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[5:34] <poli> What is the pullup resistance in the GPIO?
[5:35] <ricksl> I wish there was one central resource that could help you build your own
[5:36] <ricksl> but if you know that much about them then you probably make kits and sell them
[5:36] <JakeSays> right
[5:36] <ricksl> maybe look at the reprap wiki
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[6:00] <JakeSays> man sometimes linux drives me nuts - there's like 73847 ways to do everything
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[6:00] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@176.249.165.246) Quit ()
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[6:02] <sney> yeah, since it's a collection of tools rather than a monolithic operating system. distributions like debian try to slim that down and have authoritative ways of doing things and that mostly works. I keep telling plugwash to put http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/refcard/refcard.en.pdf in the topic over there, for exactly this reason, but he never does :(
[6:02] <ricksl> was that an arbritary number?
[6:03] <sney> surely the actual number is higher.
[6:03] <Odie_> I'm testing out some stuff with debian, and I think its still suffering from same disease as 6 years ago, the stable branch is too old
[6:04] <sney> but what percentage of those ways is really bad ideas that you get off of some guy's ubuntu blog or stackexchange?
[6:04] <Odie_> back in those days with debian you had 3 options; stable = very old, testing = broken, unstable = ??
[6:04] <sney> Odie_: stable has a very solid use case, which has nothing to do with desktop users who want the latest of anything
[6:05] <Odie_> sney: the difference is huge if you compare it to ubuntu
[6:05] <sney> and ubuntu doesn't have even a slice of debian stable's web hosting market share. use cases. linux distros offer you choices, so make the ones that make sense for what you're doing.
[6:06] <Odie_> I wouldn't recommend debian to anyone
[6:06] <pksato> debian testing is away broken, except on frozen period.
[6:06] <sney> you're in here though, so chances are good that you're using raspbian, which is the current debian stable recompiled for armv6-hf
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[6:06] <Odie_> sney: yes
[6:06] <sney> heh.
[6:06] <Odie_> and my irc screen machine runs on debian
[6:07] <Odie_> I have debian based virtual machine that I was unable to make to work properly
[6:07] * taza (~zap@unaffiliated/taza) Quit (Quit: No longer here)
[6:07] <Odie_> I'm not saying it can't be used, but it has issues
[6:07] <sney> what doesn't?
[6:07] <Odie_> true that
[6:07] <Odie_> but I still wont recommend it :)
[6:08] <sney> and I won't recommend ubuntu. *shrug* to each their own.
[6:08] <Odie_> which one would you pick for desktop?
[6:08] <JakeSays> so why would i want to nice a daemon on start?
[6:08] <sney> I have been using debian on pretty much everything for far too long to consider anything else. I'm not an evangelist, I'm just in my comfort zone
[6:09] <sney> I'm also not an evangelist because I use windows, but I guess that's another discussion altogether. well, gotta run
[6:11] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[6:14] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:16] <poli> So the w1_gpio and w1_therm work on every GPIO Pin? Or do I need some particular pin?
[6:16] <poli> Is there a configuration somewhere?
[6:17] * SgrA (~sgra@gateway/tor-sasl/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:18] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:18] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[6:19] * thesheff17 (~thesheff1@6.sub-70-194-66.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:19] * dan2k3k4 (~dan2k3k4@unaffiliated/dan2k3k4) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:27] * acovrig (~acovrig@c-71-228-232-202.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[6:27] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:28] <JakeSays> ricksl: hey what is the syntax to export an environment variable?
[6:28] <ricksl> hell if I know :P
[6:28] <JakeSays> wha..
[6:29] <JakeSays> i thought it was just export foo=bar
[6:29] <piney0> poli, GPIO4 (pin 7) for the 1wire driver
[6:29] <thesheff17> JakeSays, if doesn't have a value already export VARIABLE=X
[6:30] <thesheff17> yea you are right
[6:30] <JakeSays> thesheff17: thats what i thought, but it doesnt seem to be working
[6:30] <thesheff17> what are you trying to do?
[6:30] * alexhairyman (~alexhairy@c-174-52-149-118.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[6:30] <JakeSays> set an env var then read it in a c# app i wrote
[6:30] <thesheff17> if you do echo $value
[6:30] <thesheff17> on the prompt
[6:30] <thesheff17> it should spit it out
[6:31] <thesheff17> your C# app may be creating a new shell on each command also
[6:31] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:31] <JakeSays> don't child processes get the parent's env?
[6:32] <thesheff17> it should
[6:32] <thesheff17> why c#?
[6:32] * poli (~poli@177.159.90.77) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[6:32] <JakeSays> why not?
[6:33] <thesheff17> its based on .net
[6:33] <thesheff17> not really a linux programming language without mono
[6:33] <JakeSays> well of course
[6:33] <JakeSays> so i'm obviously using mono
[6:34] <JakeSays> the only other language i'd want to use is c++, and i'm not quite set up for that yet
[6:34] <thesheff17> well mono is gigantic....you can use what ever you want but I would recommend C++ or python on the pi
[6:35] * Megaf_ (~Megaf@unaffiliated/megaf) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[6:35] <JakeSays> mono is no less gigantic than python
[6:35] <JakeSays> and python is a horrible language
[6:36] <thesheff17> haha I beg to differ but its all preference
[6:36] <piney0> JakeSays, what do you need to get set up for c++? the g++ toolchain on linux makes it quite easy, only need an editor
[6:37] <thesheff17> haha yea what piney0 said
[6:37] <JakeSays> piney0: i want to use clang, and i want to debug remotely
[6:40] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[6:41] <JakeSays> piney0: more specifically i want to use clang 3.3. raspbian ships with 3.0
[6:41] <thesheff17> JakeSays, I know if you add the values to your .bashrc I can call them inside my python scripts
[6:41] <thesheff17> I do it allot
[6:42] <piney0> fwiw, I don't do any C++, more of a C guy
[6:43] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:47] * kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake
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[6:57] * ka6sox is now known as ka6sox-away
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[7:06] * gear4 (~dev@41-132-125-70.dsl.mweb.co.za) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:06] <gear4> my display still doesn't work :(
[7:06] <gear4> OS is ..
[7:06] <gear4> Debian for RPi
[7:07] <gear4> Wheezy
[7:07] <gear4> I used startx
[7:08] <gear4> https://pastebin.com/pKNX3kKb <= output from startx
[7:12] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:12] <gear4> http://pastebin.com/iBi98Rwd <= the Xorg.0.log
[7:14] * alpha1125 (~alpha1125@198-84-166-153.cpe.teksavvy.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[7:17] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[7:20] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[7:24] <Odie_> gear4: weird, for me it worked just right after install
[7:27] * dan2k3k4 (~dan2k3k4@unaffiliated/dan2k3k4) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[7:27] <gear4> Odie_, I fixed it right now
[7:27] <gear4> lol
[7:28] <gear4> I set hdmi_something_something to 1
[7:28] <gear4> uncommented really
[7:30] * VitaBushido (~avem@unaffiliated/avem) Quit (Quit: I quit)
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[7:36] * zombie_lee is now known as zombie_steak
[7:40] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:42] * shiftplusone sets mode -b *!*Iancormac@*.satx.res.rr.com
[7:42] * shiftplusone sets mode +b *!*Iancormac@*
[7:43] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:43] * ChanServ sets mode -o shiftplusone
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[7:55] * a5m0 (~a5m0@unaffiliated/a5m0) Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[7:56] * Gadget-Mac (~swp@21.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:58] * Mr_Sheesh_AFK (Mr_Sheesh@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:58] * Mr_Sheesh (Mr_Sheesh@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[7:59] * Mr_Sheesh_AFK is now known as Mr_Sheesh
[8:01] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[8:11] * dewm (~dewm@c-76-98-17-243.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: dewm)
[8:12] <gear4> hdmi_force_hotplug=1
[8:12] <gear4> that's the one
[8:15] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[8:17] * Zakami (~Zakami@CPE-123-211-167-107.lnse3.woo.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[8:19] * KidBeta (~KidBeta@hpavc/kidbeta) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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[8:46] * dan2k3k4 (~dan2k3k4@unaffiliated/dan2k3k4) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[8:47] * teepee (~teepee@p4FFFD32D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[8:47] * teepee (~teepee@p50846AC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:48] * ricksl (~ricksl@pegasus.rutgers.edu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[8:50] <davezZz> guys
[8:50] <davezZz> arm-none-eabi-objcopy -O binary add.elf add.bin << isthat .bin a .img ?
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[8:55] * Azerus (~badass@unaffiliated/badass) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[8:57] * Dharmit (dharmit@nat/redhat/x-ueytxojgmeuaurcx) Quit (Quit: Good Bye)
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[9:03] * Dharmit (dharmit@nat/redhat/x-vjetsflrqqpftfrw) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:03] <willybilly0101> How can I make 3G calls with RPI ?
[9:04] <gear4> willybilly0101, tried Asterisk ?
[9:05] <willybilly0101> no, first time I hear about it
[9:05] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:05] <gear4> try it
[9:05] <willybilly0101> but are thouse working with RPI
[9:05] <willybilly0101> ?
[9:05] <gear4> yes
[9:06] * VitaBushido (~avem@unaffiliated/avem) Quit (Quit: I quit)
[9:06] <willybilly0101> http://www.asterisk.org/products/telephony-interface-cards
[9:06] <willybilly0101> ?
[9:08] * bigbee (~BigB@p57ACEFB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:10] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:16] * AkumaFan (~fanjian@180.168.37.161) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[9:17] * bigbee (~BigB@p57ACEFB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[9:21] * ka6sox-away is now known as ka6sox
[9:21] <Odie_> willybilly0101: you mean voice, not data?
[9:21] <willybilly0101> I mean video
[9:21] <Jck_true> willybilly0101: Asteriks is VOIP - Not sure there's any native ways of calling directly
[9:22] <Jck_true> Unless yo get special hardware
[9:22] <Jck_true> 3G video calls?
[9:22] <willybilly0101> yes
[9:22] <gear4> Asterisk is 3G too no ?
[9:22] <Odie_> willybilly0101: errm, do you mean video over ip like skype or 3g video calls?
[9:22] <willybilly0101> 3g Video calls
[9:22] <willybilly0101> not with internet
[9:23] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:23] <Odie_> I'd start by searching if there are any such software made for linux
[9:23] <willybilly0101> because the receiver of the call might not have connection
[9:23] <gear4> Asterisk works for direct calling with GSM/3G
[9:23] <willybilly0101> probably I will try asterisk
[9:23] <willybilly0101> thanks guys
[9:23] <Jck_true> gear4: It does? With what hardware?
[9:24] <gear4> with a chan chan_dongle (an Asterisk channel driver driving Huawei 3G sticks)
[9:24] <Jck_true> 3G USB modems you can get to call with some AT commandoes... But how do you get the audio interface
[9:24] <gear4> Huawei E173 HSDPA Surfstick and chan_dongle
[9:24] * user82 (~user82@unaffiliated/user82) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:24] <Odie_> I've made some 3g video calls, but I have no idea how those are actually implemented.
[9:24] <Jck_true> Ohh that's nice
[9:25] <Odie_> (with some older nokia phones)
[9:25] <gear4> I have some of the stuff here somewhere
[9:28] * KidBeta (~KidBeta@hpavc/kidbeta) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:28] * mchype (~Todd@173.208.203.195) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[9:30] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[9:30] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[9:33] * KiltedPi (~Nbane@host-78-151-117-159.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:43] * ParkerR (ParkerR@unaffiliated/parkerr) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[9:48] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[9:52] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:52] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[9:55] * KidBeta (~KidBeta@hpavc/kidbeta) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[9:58] <gordonDrogon> morning.
[9:58] * Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[9:59] <gear4> gm
[9:59] * FR^2 (~frquadrat@farsquare.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:01] <FR^2> moin
[10:02] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:14] * Pengoo (~Pengoo@S0106602ad0726c1f.vf.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:15] * chaz68 (~ChuckMast@wsip-24-234-137-89.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[10:15] * harish (harish@nat/redhat/x-sivlqadycrhxixox) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:18] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:19] * Pengoo (~Pengoo@S0106602ad0726c1f.vf.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:20] * grandie (~Grandad@p57ACF090.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:21] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:24] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:25] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:27] * robmozart (~robmozart@ti0125a380-0578.bb.online.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:27] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:29] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:32] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:33] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:33] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:34] * LousyJohnny (~LousyJohn@pub154-98.mobius.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:34] * grandie (~Grandad@p57ACF090.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:38] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:38] * tvale (~tvale@di18.di.fct.unl.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:41] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:42] * JlRd (~JlRd@ip68-109-174-116.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:43] * Arbos (~Arbos@unaffiliated/arbos) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:45] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:49] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:50] * Aivaras (~Aivaras@295864.s.dedikuoti.lt) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:51] * harish (~harish@203.117.38.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:54] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:57] * gear4 (~dev@41-132-125-70.dsl.mweb.co.za) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:57] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:59] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:03] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:05] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:06] <steve_rox> its too quiet again
[11:07] * FR^2 takes an empty metal bucket and bangs it against the wall.
[11:07] <FR^2> steve_rox: satisfied? ^^
[11:08] <steve_rox> yeah that may do :-)
[11:09] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:10] <FR^2> cool :)
[11:13] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:13] * ka6sox is now known as ka6sox-away
[11:13] * brainwash (~brainwash@unaffiliated/brainwash) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[11:15] * robmozart (~robmozart@ti0125a380-0578.bb.online.no) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:16] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable237.145-19-135.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:17] * LousyJohnny (~LousyJohn@pub154-98.mobius.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[11:20] * ninjak (~ninjak@77.239.137.142) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:21] * brainwash (~brainwash@unaffiliated/brainwash) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:42] * Disconnected.
[11:42] -cameron.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname...
[11:42] -cameron.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident
[11:42] -cameron.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname
[11:42] -cameron.freenode.net- *** No Ident response
[11:42] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[11:42] -NickServ- You have 30 seconds to identify to your nickname before it is changed.
[11:42] -NickServ- You are now identified for DataBot.
[11:42] -MemoServ- You have 2 new memos.
[11:42] -MemoServ- To read them, type /msg MemoServ READ NEW

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.