#raspberrypi IRC Log

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IRC Log for 2013-08-28

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[20:51] -leguin.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname...
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[20:51] * RaspberryPiBot (~PircBot@unaffiliated/datagutt/bot/databot) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] * Topic is 'Unofficial RaspberryPi IRC channel but "Blessed" by the Foundation as the ONE channel. Logs @ http://srv.datagutt1.com <> Channel Rules: http://tiny.cc/h7za1w <> Getting help on IRC: http://tiny.cc/p9za1w <>'
[20:51] * Set by ShiftPlusOne!~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone on Sun Aug 04 19:59:52 CEST 2013
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[20:56] * Dooley (~Dooley@dslb-188-098-199-085.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <Dooley> Good evening
[20:57] <Dooley> I am ordering a large nmber of components to start withe lectronics, does anyone know the name of the termination to use with a breadboard?
[20:57] * stapper (~Icedove@d54C50062.access.telenet.be) Quit (Quit: stapper)
[20:57] <Dooley> I have the choice between different options: solder lug, pin, snap-in, J!hook, PCB terminals
[20:59] <Dooley> For example: would that be the good format: http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PDB12-H4251-202BF/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtC25l1F4XBU1xwXnrUt%2fuoV6eNWWZvMzM%3d
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[21:06] <gordonDrogon> bradboards are just 0.1" matrixes.
[21:06] <gordonDrogon> so most components with leads like that will plug in.
[21:07] * Alina-malina (Alina-mali@82.199.218.176) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:07] <gordonDrogon> as will standard dual-in-line IC packages.
[21:07] <Dooley> Thanks gordonDrogon, you're extremely helpful as usual
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[21:11] <gordonDrogon> most components work - I have occasionally had to solder on wires to some fiddly little ones though.
[21:12] * willybilly0101 (~willybill@unaffiliated/willybilly0101) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
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[21:12] <plugwash> and i've found that with molex kk connectors with locking/polarising tab that you have to superglue them to the breadboard, otherwise the header pulls out of the breadboard when you try to unplug the cable
[21:13] * \\Mr_C\\ (~mrc@66-168-168-33.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) Quit ()
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[21:13] <gordonDrogon> that potentiometer for example - says it has a spacing of 7.5mm between the end pins - but it also says 0.295 - I'm guessing it's really 0.3 inches and they've just rounded the metric to 7.5mm, so 0.3 / 3 is 0.1" between pins ...
[21:13] * willybilly0101 (~willybill@unaffiliated/willybilly0101) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:14] <plugwash> you do get some components with a 2.5mm spacing
[21:14] <plugwash> for components with only a handful of pins the difference between 2.5mm and 2.54mm is negligable but as the pin count increases it becomes more and more of a problem
[21:15] <plugwash> iirc the soviets were especially fond of the "metric inch"
[21:15] * pwh (~pwh@c-75-68-87-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: pwh)
[21:15] <gordonDrogon> yea, there are some oddities. Then a standard header and a steady hand soldering works :)
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[21:20] <Gadget-Mac> gordonDrogon: Fancy another device support request for wiringPi ?
[21:21] * imark (~mark@client-86-31-20-1.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:21] <gordonDrogon> what do you have in-mind?
[21:22] <Gadget-Mac> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9570
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[21:25] <gordonDrogon> I2C output... intersting...
[21:25] <Gadget-Mac> Indeed.
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[21:42] <gordonDrogon> Gadget-Mac, doesn't look too bad. need to calculate crc-8 for each transaction by the looks of it though.
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[21:59] <dan89> Hello all, has anyone set up freenx server on their rpi and used nomachinenx client on WinXP? I am doing this, I can connect to a desktop session but I don't see any fonts. I have seen a couple posts that mention this issue but no solutions.
[21:59] <dan89> anyone else run into this?
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[22:04] <chris_99> dan89, i didn't think NX was still developed
[22:04] <chris_99> i thought it was replaced by something else
[22:06] <Gadget-Mac> gordonDrogon: Thats not a show stopper though ?
[22:08] <gordonDrogon> Gadget-Mac, shouldn't be - crc8 is pretty standard.
[22:08] * teepee (~teepee@p50844144.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[22:10] <Gadget-Mac> gordonDrogon: Would you like one to play with ?
[22:11] <dan89> chris_99: lol.. that would explain why it hasn't been updated since '08.. I know there is RDP and VNC but when I was searching NX is what most people seemed to go with
[22:11] <Gadget-Mac> Cos I'll order 2 :)
[22:12] <chris_99> dan89, i used it a while ago, and it was good, i used the google one iirc
[22:12] <chris_99> but that's not updated either
[22:12] <dan89> chris_99: the google nx client?
[22:12] <chris_99> yeah, i think they made a server too?
[22:13] <dan89> anyone know what the current preferred remote protocol is or are we sticking with bandwidth hogging vnc?
[22:13] <gordonDrogon> Gadget-Mac, if you want to donate one ;-)
[22:13] <IT_Sean> um... SSH?
[22:13] <chris_99> that's not GUI IT_Sean :P
[22:13] <IT_Sean> GUI is for the weak!
[22:13] <dan89> yeah, lookin for a gui :P
[22:13] <IT_Sean> then RDP / VNC
[22:13] <gordonDrogon> dan89, vnc is probably ok - I've found it faster than ssh due to no encryption.
[22:13] <Gadget-Mac> gordonDrogon: Well as I'm asking you to do the work :) Might be a couple of days before I can order though
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[22:14] <gordonDrogon> Gadget-Mac, no rush.
[22:14] <chris_99> vnc is crap
[22:14] <gordonDrogon> chris_99, propose something better...
[22:14] <dan89> I work on ssh most of the time, but I'm taking a java course that uses some graphical elements and I want to be able to remote into my pi and work on it
[22:14] <chris_99> nx was better
[22:14] <dan89> nx seems nice except no text is showing up D:
[22:14] <gordonDrogon> dan89, you might be able to install rsh and use that - like ssh but no encryption.
[22:15] * IT_Sean throws an HDMI display, mouse, and keyboard at dan64
[22:15] <gordonDrogon> it's what we used in the bad old days before ssh ...
[22:15] <dan89> wrong dan but yeah, I have those too
[22:16] <dan89> the key here is being remote, most of the time I'm working on my pi i'm at work soo :v
[22:16] <dan89> gordonDrogon: rsh is a remote gui?
[22:16] * C-M (~c_m@wikimedia/C-M) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[22:17] <gordonDrogon> dan89, rsh is remote shell - similar to ssh but no encryption.
[22:17] <dan89> i thought i remember something that would forward individual gui programs instead of the whole desktop, is that nx?
[22:17] <gordonDrogon> rsh/ssh does individual programs.
[22:17] <dan89> gordonDrogon: ah, well I am already set up in the ssh department. I am connected to this webchat through an ssh tunnel on my rpi
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[22:17] <gordonDrogon> I used ssh often, but not on Pi's as the encryption speed (or lack of it) makes it a bit clunky compared to vnc for a whole desktop.
[22:18] <dan89> gui programs? I think maybe i am confused
[22:18] <gordonDrogon> so I can e.g. ssh -X from my Linux desktop to a Pi, and run xterm on the Pi and have it displayed on my desktop.
[22:19] <dan89> huh but I take it that requires a Linux desktop for the client?
[22:19] <chris_99> yeah i don't think ssh -X would work on windoze
[22:20] <chris_99> without an X server
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[22:21] <gordonDrogon> or cygwin.
[22:22] * divine (~divine@2001:470:8247:1::42) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:22] <dan89> I have been getting into linux pretty heavy for the last couple of years but mostly servers over ssh, so I am not super well versed in X server. I understand that it basically acts as an interface between the kernerl and whatever desktop environment (?) but beyond that i am lost
[22:22] <gordonDrogon> actually, I wonder if there is a teamviewer client for the Pi... I use it on my Linux desktop to see remote Win PCs and it supposedly can allow remote Win people to see my Linux destkop I think...
[22:24] <ShorTie> i believe they got a arm version for the phones
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[22:29] <chris_99> dan89, may have found something x2go
[22:31] <sarkie_> hi, I have a tv converter box that takes vga input and converts to my tv, i have an hdmi to vga converter cable, should it work?
[22:31] <dan89> only one way to find out sarkie_
[22:31] <dan89> chris_99: thanks, I'll take a look
[22:32] <chris_99> i'm just about to test it out, there also seems to be a windoze client
[22:33] * Out`Of`Control (~Viper@unaffiliated/outofcontrol/x-1373891) Quit (Quit: Free Software, Free Hardware, Free Culture, Free Spectrum)
[22:33] <sarkie_> dan89, its just i have been given the tv so currently not sure if the tv works or the pi or i'm meant to tweak this http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/222/can-a-simple-cable-convert-hdmi-output-to-vga/710#710
[22:34] <gordonDrogon> sarkie_, can't you just connect the composite output of the Pi to the yellow socket on the TV?
[22:38] * xatter (~xatter@75.93.232.100) Quit (Quit: xatter)
[22:38] <sarkie_> gordonDrogon, http://neurologues.qwriting.qc.cuny.edu/files/2013/05/picard-facepalm-1.jpg
[22:39] <sarkie_> I've been messing around the pi with hdmi I totally forgot about that
[22:39] * MadeAllUp_ (~MadeAllUp@gateway/tor-sasl/madeallup) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:42] <sarkie_> thanks guys, ssh'd in now, all is good. thanks! feel like an idiot now.
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[22:44] <gordonDrogon> sarkie_, I guess it's been a long day :)
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[22:45] <sarkie_> gordonDrogon, indeed, moving house, and my housemate said I could have his tv, got nothing to test it with except the pi and have been ssh ing all the time never seen it boot
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[22:51] <doc-saintly> How difficult would it be to get a Pi to do this: http://www.lantronix.com/it-management/kvm-over-ip/spider.html
[22:53] <sarkie_> right time to put the tv away, cheers again
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[22:54] <gordonDrogon> doc-saintly, you'd need hdmi to vga converter, but other than that it ought to work.
[22:54] <plugwash> doc-saintly, can you explain how you want to use it?
[22:54] <plugwash> do you want to use it to administer Pis or do you want to use it to administer servers from a Pi?
[22:54] <doc-saintly> plugwash: I want to be able to use my PI to get bios-level admin to servers from my Pi
[22:55] <doc-saintly> i.e. video into PI and then I can view over VNC
[22:55] <pksato> use thise kvm with rpi is OK. to make a RPi a KVM?
[22:55] <doc-saintly> yes, make RPI a KVM-over-IP
[22:55] <doc-saintly> basically I VNC into my Pi, and it send my mouse/keyboard to the computer, and gets the monitor from it
[22:55] <gordonDrogon> ah. forget the Pi and just plug that into the servers.
[22:55] <chris_99> dan89, works really well!
[22:55] <doc-saintly> gordonDrogon: I don't have that :)
[22:55] <doc-saintly> and I don't want to spend $300 on on
[22:55] <doc-saintly> on one*
[22:55] <plugwash> so you want to use a Pi as a replacement for that device? if so then the answer to your question is "virtually impossible"
[22:56] <doc-saintly> plugwash: Why impossible? ( Ibelieve yo, just curious)
[22:56] <dan89> chris_99: so is that a server and a client or jsut a client that does xsessions?
[22:56] * gordonDrogon agrees with plugwash
[22:56] <doc-saintly> (and my typing is atrocious today)
[22:56] <chris_99> dan89, it contains both a server & a client
[22:56] <chris_99> i believe it uses the NX protocol i _think_
[22:56] <gordonDrogon> doc-saintly, Pi has no video input.
[22:57] <doc-saintly> gordonDrogon: Ok? It has USB and general IO though
[22:57] <dan89> chris_99: you test it out on a pi?
[22:57] <plugwash> doc-saintly, because the Pi doesn't have the right interfaces. You need USB device and video INPUT
[22:57] <gordonDrogon> USB host.
[22:57] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-91-171.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:57] <plugwash> the Pi has usb host and video OUTPUT
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[22:57] <doc-saintly> I'm not THAT stupid :) I know the Pi would need some sort of video input
[22:57] <doc-saintly> I was thinking maybe the GPIO could be used for it, or a USB adapter
[22:57] <doc-saintly> if there is some sort of USB driven converter for a VGA signal, that's basically what the spider thing does
[22:58] * NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD28B28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:58] <plugwash> maybe a USB vga capture device could be used, your framerate would suck though
[22:58] <doc-saintly> even with the "good" video capabilities of the Pi?
[22:58] <IT_Sean> ^ and it would probably cost as much as the device you are trying to replace, while not working anywhere near as well
[22:58] <gordonDrogon> doc-saintly, that device is taking VGA video from the server, and digitizing it into an IP stream to a remote compuer. at the same time its pretending to be usb keyboard and mouse.
[22:58] <doc-saintly> IT_Sean: I see. I loathe that device though, no reason for something like that to cost $300
[22:59] <chris_99> dan89, i just tested it out on gentoo & windoze
[22:59] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:59] <pksato> kvm cost $230, extra hardware to make rpi do it probable cost much more.
[22:59] <plugwash> And you also need the ability to act as a USB device which the Pi can't really do (the model A can do it in theory but it can't do device and host at the same time and afaict there are no drivers for doing device)
[23:00] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[23:00] <plugwash> If you are going to try and use an arm linux board with a USB VGA capture device to make a remote KVM the beaglebone black is probablly better than a Pi but I bet it will still suck compared to a dedicated device
[23:00] <gordonDrogon> http://www.stuff-uk.net/p-47934.aspx?gclid=COi9q7GEobkCFUXJtAodTRMAkQ seems much cheaper ...
[23:00] <pksato> one FPGA can do it without RPi.
[23:01] <doc-saintly> plugwash: I didn't want to mention the BB because I figured that would be a bannable offense in this channel ;)
[23:02] <doc-saintly> gordonDrogon: Interesting, I don't see such a thing in the US though. I see some cheaper models, but they seem to be associated with a "KVM/IP capable Switch" which leads me to believe it's the switch doing the heavy lifting and the unit doesn't stand alone
[23:04] <Moon_Man> Hi. I'm trying to write a bash script that greps ps for node with 'ps -aux | grep node', and when node is found, it will turn on an LED connected to GPIO27. I have some base code but I need a little help integrating everything. Does anyone have a few moments?
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[23:04] <gordonDrogon> doc-saintly, I've used a single port IP KVM like that (don't know the model) to front-up traditional KVM boxes to keep tabs on a douple of dozen servers in a rack in the past. worked well.
[23:05] * sinnet3000 (sinnet3000@189.173.154.187) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:05] <gordonDrogon> Moon_Man, remember to exclude the grep command!
[23:05] <doc-saintly> gordonDrogon: So you just hook it up to some sort of networking device (like a switch) and plug in monitor / USB and then it has its own web interface, etc?
[23:05] <gordonDrogon> doc-saintly, they have an ethernet socket which you connect to "the net".
[23:06] <Moon_Man> gordonDrogon: Why exclude the grep command?
[23:06] <gordonDrogon> Moon_Man, try it - you'll grep your own grep command.
[23:06] <gordonDrogon> Moon_Man, so you need an extra filter.
[23:06] <Moon_Man> gordonDrogon: Oh I see what you mean.
[23:06] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[23:07] <gordonDrogon> Moon_Man, use the -q option to grep to return a status and then base the decision to toggle the light on that.
[23:07] <Moon_Man> Okay, thanks.
[23:07] <gordonDrogon> Moon_Man, ps ax | grep node | grep -q -v grep ; echo $?
[23:07] <gordonDrogon> maybe.
[23:07] <pksato> Moon_Man: or use pidof
[23:08] <gordonDrogon> these new fagled commands ;-)
[23:08] <gordonDrogon> *fangled too.
[23:08] <pksato> pidoff none && gpio bla bla
[23:09] * Dooley (~Dooley@dslb-188-098-199-085.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:09] <Moon_Man> gordonDrogon: Hm, the command you're giving me is returning 0. Can you explain what the last part does?
[23:09] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[23:10] <gordonDrogon> Moon_Man, $? is the return code of the last command.
[23:10] <Moon_Man> Ah I see. So if it returns 0, that means node is running, correct?
[23:10] <gordonDrogon> see man grep - yed I think so.
[23:10] * DocHolliday (~DocHollid@99-99-29-57.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: DocHolliday)
[23:10] <gordonDrogon> The exit status is 0 if selected lines are found, and 1 if not found.
[23:12] <gordonDrogon> doc-saintly, the one I used has a java client - so the IP KVM has an IP address ,you http:// to the device then it sends the java to the browser and off you go.
[23:14] * Wikibit (~Wikibit@p54A979B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:16] <Moon_Man> gordonDrogon: So once it returns 0 or 1, how do I go about executing actions based on that output? Is there any way you can give me an example of something like that in bash? An if/else case that includes the output?
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[23:21] <doc-saintly> gordonDrogon: cool, thanks. That gives me a bit more confidence to buy one of the cheaper ones and give it a try. How do you do the power management?
[23:21] <pksato> Moon_Man: if [ $? -gt 0 ]; then echo led off; else echo led on; fi
[23:22] <doc-saintly> Also - if I was really determine to create my own with some sort of SoC, would you have one to recommend if RPi isn't well suited for it?
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[23:22] <Moon_Man> pksato: Thanks. I was a little confused on what to put as conditions inside the brackets.
[23:23] <pksato> Moon_Man: brackets or [ is a short cut for test command. and ] close it.
[23:23] <Moon_Man> Would 'gpio export 27 out', then 'gpio write 27 1' turn pin 27 on correctly?
[23:24] <pksato> Moon_Man: about bash http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/refcards.html
[23:24] * Thra11 (~Thra11@159.3.125.91.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:25] <Moon_Man> That's actually a great resource. Binary comparison is really different in bash.
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[23:35] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
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[23:38] <gordonDrogon> Moon_Man, sorry - was afk. just gpio -g mode 27 out ; gpio -g write 27 1
[23:38] <gordonDrogon> doc-saintly, power management? I use APC Masterswitches.
[23:39] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[23:40] <Moon_Man> gordonDrogon: I've actually been trying something slightly different. Can you look at my script and let me know what you think? http://pastebin.com/cpWFCNKP
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[23:42] <gordonDrogon> Moon_Man, it's probably fine. I gave up using /sys/class/gpio 15 months ago though.
[23:42] * nitdega (nitdega@2602:304:ab12:d421:bd93:bf87:7be4:507e) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:42] <Moon_Man> Oh? How come?
[23:42] <gordonDrogon> I wrote the gpio program to make my life easy.
[23:43] <doc-saintly> gordonDrogon: I see, thanks for the advice :)
[23:43] <gordonDrogon> and your pin 27 is pin 22 in a Rev 1 Pi if you ever run it on a Rev 1...
[23:43] <gordonDrogon> or pin 1 in wiringPi numbers: gpio mode 1 out ; gpio write 1 1
[23:43] <gordonDrogon> actually its pin 2, but hey :)
[23:44] <Moon_Man> gordonDrogon: Haha, good catch. We're going to go into production using all model B's, so I don't think it's an issue.
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[23:45] <gordonDrogon> also you'll need to run that script as root to access the sysfs gpio files too.
[23:45] <gordonDrogon> probably not an issue, but the gpio program in wiringPi saves you doing that.
[23:45] * CookieNinja is now known as rtbt
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[23:50] <Moon_Man> gordonDrogon: Great catch again. I wasn't able to find those files logged in as a user :P
[23:50] <Moon_Man> So how would I get a script to execute as root? Would that go inside the script, or when it's referenced?
[23:51] <Moon_Man> Eh, maybe it's just easier to use your method.
[23:51] <gordonDrogon> is this something thats started at boot time?
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[23:52] <Moon_Man> Yep.
[23:52] <Moon_Man> It's just a script to check if Node.js is running, and turn on a LED, if not then flash LED.
[23:52] <gordonDrogon> then it'll be run as root if you start it in /etc/init.d, or the @reboot in crontab.
[23:53] <Moon_Man> Yes, it was going to go in /etc/init.d, so that works well.
[23:53] <Moon_Man> gordonDrogon: What does this mean? (Running as root) "nodejs.sh: 8: nodejs.sh: cannot create /sys/class/gpio/gpio27/value: Directory nonexistent"
[23:55] <Moon_Man> gpio27 is not in the /sys/class/gpio directory. I'm assuming it should be there?
[23:56] <gordonDrogon> you need to export the pin first.
[23:56] * Moon_Man slaps forehead
[23:56] <gordonDrogon> I'd need to check the gpio source to work out the syntax.
[23:57] <gordonDrogon> echo 27 > /sys/class/gpio/export
[23:57] <gordonDrogon> then echo "out" > /sys/class/gpio/gpio27/direction
[23:57] <gordonDrogon> or something like that.
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