#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2013-11-05

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:05] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[0:07] * Vialas_ (~Vialas@202.90.207.12) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:11] * Vialas (~Vialas@202.90.207.13) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:13] * peterrus (~peterrus@5469EEFF.cm-12-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:13] * m8 (~m@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[0:15] * seba-nsfw (~hel1@cpe-90-157-233-7.static.amis.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] <seba-nsfw> how do you view the raspberrypi cam feed and save it at the same time?
[0:16] <seba-nsfw> like stream + save
[0:21] * Waldi_ (~Waldi@p508F7208.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[0:25] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@207-170-205-178.static.twtelecom.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:25] * cbb2296 (48c995fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.201.149.250) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:26] * jaytk (~jaytk@108-232-157-80.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:26] <cbb2296> what do you guys think of owncloud?
[0:26] * com_kieffer (~com_kieff@151.66.36.148) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:28] <debenham> Works pretty nice - bit high bandwidth at times though
[0:29] <cbb2296> i think ill give it a run. Have you tried any of the alternatives like btsync?
[0:31] * MichaelC (~unknownbl@phpbb/website/Unknown-Bliss) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:32] <cbb2296> Basically I'm trying to make my own version of arkOS because arkOS is so buggy
[0:32] * MichaelC (~unknownbl@phpbb/website/Unknown-Bliss) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] * Jayneil (~jayneil@cpe-173-175-241-63.tx.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
[0:34] * gillzon (~oscar@213-65-30-133-no21.tbcn.telia.com) has left #raspberrypi
[0:35] * debenham (~cjd@122.150.17.254) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:38] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * f00bar80 (~f00bar80@196.219.143.69) Quit ()
[0:40] <Elderx> hmm, is there build of snmp that can run on raspberry
[0:40] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] <Elderx> i am getting error to start it if i just get stable from apt-get
[0:40] <seba-nsfw> oknvm found it
[0:41] * _cheney (~cheney@nat.sierrabravo.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[0:46] * kilnaar (~kilnaar@c-98-236-141-239.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: kilnaar)
[0:48] * DMackey (~n2dvm@cpe-24-59-32-162.twcny.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Irving Gould Blows Monkey Fish!!)
[0:48] * xCP23x (~xCP23x@78-86-53-38.zone2.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[0:59] <cbb2296> so port 8000 is blocked as my work. How can i access my arkOS?
[0:59] <cbb2296> actually the only open ports are 80 and 443
[1:00] * ruif13 (~ruif13@a79-168-203-125.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Quit: ruifigueiredo.me)
[1:00] <sney> proxy
[1:00] <cbb2296> but all proxy ports are filtered too
[1:01] <clever> run a proxy on port 80
[1:01] <sney> there is no such thing as a "proxy port"
[1:01] <sney> exactly
[1:01] <cbb2296> clever clever
[1:01] * DataLinkDroid (~DataLinkD@123.208.230.151) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:01] <clever> one of the many jobs a rpi can be used for!
[1:01] <melfy> dont forget 443
[1:01] <cbb2296> so can I run a proxy server on my pi
[1:01] <cbb2296> ah alright
[1:01] <melfy> can just vpn it
[1:02] * andrew91_ (~andrew918@206.223.179.158) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] <uniqdom> +1 to vpn
[1:03] <cbb2296> so just install openvpn?
[1:03] <melfy> if single user can just install openvpnas
[1:03] <sney> install, configure, etc
[1:03] <melfy> does the basics for u
[1:04] <uniqdom> even a ssh -D tunnel will do the job
[1:04] <cbb2296> and when i set up port forwarding on my router what port would i forward
[1:04] <cbb2296> id obviously want 80 or 443 right? but how would that work
[1:04] <melfy> id say vpn/443
[1:05] <cbb2296> alright ill work on configuring that. How could i access that externally though?
[1:05] <melfy> openvpnas starts with port 943, you'd need to login & switch
[1:05] <cbb2296> or do i even need to forward ports
[1:05] <melfy> unless its in dmz u need to forward
[1:06] <cbb2296> wouldnt forwarding port 80 direct all http traffic through my router to my pi though?
[1:06] <cbb2296> networking is obviously not my strong suit
[1:07] <clever> set the pi ssh server to listen on port 443 also
[1:07] <clever> port forward 443 to the pi
[1:08] <cbb2296> alright ill try that right now
[1:08] <cbb2296> thanks
[1:08] <clever> then ssh publicip:443 -D 1234
[1:08] <clever> this will create a socks proxy at port 1234 on the localhost, which routes thru the pi
[1:08] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[1:08] <clever> vpn is overly complex if you just want a proxy
[1:09] <cbb2296> so then thats literally all I would have to do?
[1:09] <cbb2296> just forward my port and ssh?
[1:09] * odin_ (~Odin@2a01:348:261:32:20df:72d8:e066:f49e) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:09] <clever> yeah
[1:09] <clever> and figure out what your home public ip is
[1:09] <clever> and keep track of it changing on you
[1:10] <sney> put it on a no-ip service
[1:10] <clever> thats one solution
[1:10] <clever> some new routers can do that automaticaly
[1:10] <clever> "2013-11-04 20:10:17 bedroom temp: 23.00c(73.40f), kitchen: 23.56c(74.41f), living room: 23.06c(73.51f), outdoor: -1.81c(28.74f) VCC: over 4.5 volts portb: 00000000"
[1:10] <clever> ooo, chilly outside
[1:10] <[SLB]> i've also set up a vpn server on my pi http://www.slblabs.com/2012/10/12/rpi-vpn/
[1:10] <cbb2296> i know my public ip. Ill try this now. thanks guys!
[1:11] <[SLB]> not sure about your port limitations though
[1:11] * TomWij (~TomWij@gentoo/developer/tomwij) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:11] <clever> [SLB]: hmmm, havent seen that vpn type used before
[1:11] <clever> *reads*
[1:12] <clever> [SLB]: is it udp or tcp?
[1:12] <[SLB]> let me check on the router
[1:12] * kairu (~zye@mail.caffevita.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] * jhulten (~jhulten@64.124.61.215) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:13] <[SLB]> 1723 tcp
[1:13] <sney> udp wouldn't be much use for a vpn
[1:13] * jhulten (~jhulten@64.124.61.215) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] <clever> running tcp over tcp is a sure fire way to ruin your latency
[1:13] * jhulten (~jhulten@64.124.61.215) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:13] * Geniack (~Geniack@unaffiliated/geniack) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[1:13] * Geniack_ (~Geniack@unaffiliated/geniack) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] <clever> the protocol is designed to slow things down with packet loss, so the outer most tcp (port 1723) will limit its traffic, but not cause any packet loss to the inner traffic
[1:16] <clever> so the inner tcp channel keeps trying to jam tons of data thru the shrinking pipe
[1:16] * jhulten (~jhulten@64.124.61.215) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:16] <clever> and your latency goes thru the roof
[1:16] <[SLB]> actually it works by resending lost packets
[1:16] * Cykey (~CykeyFree@cykey.me) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:16] <Cykey> Hi
[1:16] <clever> [SLB]: the outer tcp layer will resend, and limit its bandwidth to reduce losses
[1:16] <clever> [SLB]: the inner tcp is unaware of those limits, and wont slow itself down
[1:16] <clever> resulting in a large queue of packets waiting to go out
[1:16] <Cykey> I would like to do long range communication between raspberry Pi's
[1:16] <Cykey> (like a few kilometers)
[1:16] <Cykey> what are some good transmitters/receivers out there? Also, what about the antennas?
[1:16] <cbb2296> i think ill just stick with ssh tunneling
[1:16] <clever> [SLB]: if you used udp for the vpn, packet loss means packet loss, and the tcp connections will resend and throttle properly
[1:16] <Firehopper> cykey, how much data how fast?
[1:16] * yofel (~quassel@ubuntu/member/yofel) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:16] <Firehopper> cause 2 miles is going to require specal antennas..
[1:16] <Firehopper> and prolly special tx/rx setups
[1:16] <Cykey> Firehopper: really just to send GPS coordinates (couple bytes); speed does not really matter
[1:16] <Firehopper> couple bytes how often..
[1:16] <[SLB]> yes i know, i didn't know it's possible to set up a vpn over udp
[1:17] <clever> Cykey: http://www.slblabs.com/2012/10/12/rpi-vpn/
[1:17] <Firehopper> and how real time?
[1:17] <clever> oops
[1:17] <Cykey> Firehopper: once every 5 seconds? haha
[1:17] <Firehopper> cause cell phones could do it via txt msgs or something
[1:17] <clever> Cykey: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9099 6 mile range acording to the specs list
[1:17] <Cykey> clever: won't have internet
[1:17] * kairu (~zye@mail.caffevita.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:17] <clever> Cykey: that was the wrong link
[1:17] <Cykey> clever: ...yeah, I've considered xbees except they are expensive as f**k
[1:18] <clever> yeah, thats the bigest downside to them
[1:18] <Cykey> Firehopper: Hm, yeah, SMS could do except modems are quite expensive :(
[1:18] <clever> Cykey: as a plus, xbee are 3.3v, so they can mate with the pi without a level shifter
[1:18] <Cykey> oh yeah
[1:18] <Cykey> the Pi's GPIO runs at 3.3? (not 5v?)
[1:18] <clever> yeah, 3.3v only
[1:19] <Cykey> I'm getting confused between arduino and pi stuff haha
[1:19] <Firehopper> long range is going to cost a lot..
[1:19] <pksato> Cykey: if you is licenced ham, can use APRS network.
[1:19] <Firehopper> no getting around that
[1:19] <Firehopper> or yeah do it via ham radios.. but those are expensive as well..
[1:20] <Firehopper> actually you can get a handheld ham radio for $50
[1:20] <clever> Cykey: before you complain about the $39 modules being expensive, this one does 15 miles: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9411
[1:20] <Firehopper> no idea what kind of range though
[1:20] <cbb2296> anyone have experience with very secure ftp daemon?
[1:20] <Firehopper> but anyway wireless at distance is pricey, either the tx's or the antennas..
[1:21] <Cykey> I think SMS is the best option at this point
[1:21] <sney> if you have ssh, just use sftp and don't bother with ftp
[1:21] <cbb2296> sounds good sney, thanks
[1:21] <pksato> old cellphone cam be used to send sms. but, sms dont have high cost?
[1:22] <Cykey> clever: hah $185...no thanks ;P
[1:22] <clever> cbb2296: i just use scp
[1:22] * jaytk (~jaytk@108-232-157-80.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:22] <clever> Cykey: yeah
[1:22] * jaytk (~jaytk@108-232-157-80.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:22] <Cykey> regarding SMS modems, has anyone ever used one?
[1:23] <Firehopper> not me
[1:23] * rigid (~rigid@unaffiliated/rigid) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:23] <Firehopper> gsm modem or gprs modem
[1:24] <clever> ive heard that some older cellphones expose the AT command set over a docking port
[1:24] <pksato> use old cell phone. but compatible to network.
[1:24] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@host205-158-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:24] <clever> could maybe get a 20 year old junk phone that does that, but you may have trouble finding the pinout and a carrier that accepts it
[1:24] * TomWij (~TomWij@gentoo/developer/tomwij) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:24] <Cykey> lol that's kind of hacky heh
[1:25] <Cykey> Firehopper: not sure
[1:25] <pksato> some have direct access to modem.
[1:25] <clever> the old bag phone i have uses a db25 port for power and external mic
[1:25] <pksato> rs232 or usb.
[1:25] <clever> never checked to see if it had actual serial on it
[1:26] <pksato> gammu/wammu can be used to send sms.
[1:26] <clever> it was something like this, http://zagg-blog.s3.amazonaws.com/community/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bag-phone.jpg
[1:27] <pksato> http://wammu.eu/
[1:27] <Cykey> I could just use one of those 3G dongles
[1:27] <Cykey> and send my stuff over HTTP instead
[1:28] <clever> compare the monthly cost of a 3g dongle + upfront cost, to a single $39 cost for an xbee module, and no monthly fee
[1:28] <Firehopper> another method is to embed a rpi with a wifi dongle and sneak on someone's wifi signal :)
[1:28] <Cykey> Firehopper: at 3 kilometers above ground? yeah... ;)
[1:28] <Cykey> clever: actually, 2 xbees, no?
[1:28] <cbb2296> well don't they make those crazy big 2.4ghz antennae
[1:29] <Firehopper> doesnt the zigbee pro with 60mw power have a pretty long distance?
[1:29] <clever> Cykey: just one node and one base station?
[1:29] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:30] <Cykey> I might go with this
[1:30] <Cykey> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10138
[1:30] <Cykey> clever: mhm
[1:30] <clever> Cykey: ah, then you have 2 xbee modules vs a 3g module+monthly plane+something for the base station
[1:30] <clever> (phone tethered into a laptop?)
[1:30] <Cykey> what?
[1:30] <Cykey> ;P
[1:31] * smccarthy (~smccarthy@208.99.166.84) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:31] <clever> if you used a 3g usb stick, you would need a monthly plan to cover its data
[1:31] <pksato> for long range need more power, obove regulametation limits to use without licence.
[1:31] <clever> and you would need another 3g (or phone) at the base station, to receive the data
[1:31] <Firehopper> most 3g dongles are around $100 ish
[1:31] <clever> and that :P
[1:31] <clever> compare that to a pair of $39 xbee's
[1:31] <Firehopper> plans are 10-20 for 250 meg ish
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[1:39] * Firehopper (~Firehoppe@pool-71-175-192-7.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[2:00] <steve_rox> i see they managed to obtain all the money required for kickstarter:rpi hdmi display
[2:00] <steve_rox> kinda cool
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[2:07] <melfy> whats a rpi hdmi display
[2:07] <melfy> a tiny tft hdmi lcd ??
[2:08] * _ken_ (~pi@c-76-23-162-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:08] <ozzzy> just plug in your 60" plasma
[2:08] <melfy> that already works ;(
[2:09] <ozzzy> well.. then you know
[2:09] <sney> I think he was asking about the kickstarter one mentioned above
[2:09] <ozzzy> but you can buy little 7" and 9" hdmi displays
[2:09] <sney> which appears to be this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/697708033/hdmipi-affordable-9-high-def-screen-for-the-raspbe
[2:10] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:10] <rikkib> What is wrong with a normal lcd display and if need be a hdmi to dvi-d cable
[2:11] <ozzzy> kickstarter is just another way to separate fools from their money
[2:11] <rikkib> Good spotting
[2:12] <pksato> all parts to make a hdmi display are on market, just need to some one make a kit.
[2:12] <ozzzy> there's a 7" with board on ebay for 60 bux
[2:15] <steve_rox> im using a really tiny car reverseing lcd myself
[2:16] <steve_rox> nothing larger will fit in the project box
[2:16] <rikkib> Upside down and back to front
[2:16] <pksato> oh yes, have ebay seller with these kits, need a tablet like case.
[2:18] <steve_rox> fun
[2:19] <ozzzy> my neighbour was so proud of his little phone... look... I can watch a movie
[2:19] <ozzzy> the display is about 4"
[2:19] <steve_rox> cute
[2:19] <ozzzy> I said 'where... I don't see a movie'
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[2:36] <phelps> omxplayer plays local files fine, but wont play remote files, it just flashes black and thats it
[2:37] <phelps> anyone have any idea ? running raspbian
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[2:37] <phelps> I'm running the latest build from http://omxplayer.sconde.net/
[2:38] <pksato> no read permission?
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[2:39] <phelps> no errors so I don't know
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[2:42] <_ken_> phelps: yeah that player sucks
[2:42] <phelps> alternatives ?
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[2:42] <_ken_> Even with mp3s locally you can't double click them
[2:42] <_ken_> found no way around it
[2:42] <_ken_> I can double click everything else, so I just removed it
[2:43] <phelps> ohh, not running a gui
[2:43] <_ken_> lol
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[2:43] <clever> phelps: what happens if you run md5sum on the same file?
[2:43] <phelps> I'm sure I can't on the remote file
[2:43] <_ken_> I was reading omxplayer as lxmusic
[2:44] <phelps> it plays local files fine
[2:44] <_ken_> phelps: I use mplayer
[2:44] <clever> what kind of remote file?
[2:44] <_ken_> I assume .pls files, right?
[2:44] <pksato> phelps: how you playinf remote file? or thats is protocol do access this file?
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[2:44] <sney> mplayer doesn't use the pi gpu to accelerate media files. omxplayer has fewer options but it is better for any kind of video
[2:45] <phelps> it won't play youtube or twitch streams at all
[2:45] <clever> sney: ive been looking at adding gpu support to mplayer
[2:45] <_ken_> Yeah I am only using it for streaming .pls files (notably Shockwave). Nevermind ;)
[2:45] <clever> the options in mplayer are just so much better
[2:45] <sney> clever: yeah, patch it up, if you can
[2:45] <sney> it'd be great
[2:46] <clever> its on hold right now, compile problems and then i forgot about it
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[2:46] <clever> from what i remember, you need to define a custom pixel format (color->bit encoding), which cheats, and just outputs raw h264
[2:47] <clever> then you need a custom video renderer which accepts that pixel format
[2:47] * thebeagle (~thebeagle@147.126.81.6) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:47] <clever> so mplayer will pass the video into the decoder module, and get raw h264 out
[2:47] <cbb2296> can anybody help me install owncloud?
[2:47] <clever> then it passes that on to the display module, which does the actual decode&display
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[2:53] <cbb2296> what directory are things installed via pacman downloaded to?
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[3:29] <phelps> I'm guessing thats why it plays 1080 h264 so well
[3:29] <phelps> its entirely hardware
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[3:30] <sney> yarp
[3:30] <phelps> its pretty funny, I have a not too old (3 or 4 years old) AMD PC that can't play 1080
[3:31] <Triffid_Hunter> phelps: yeah it's a relatively underwhelming cpu core with a usable gpu and vpu stuck to it.. so if you want to software-decode you're gonna have a bad time
[3:31] <sney> must've been pretty low end even in 2010 then
[3:31] <sney> software decoding is pretty painful on the pi yeah
[3:31] <phelps> it was $370 at walmart
[3:31] <sney> tried playing a dvd, mplayer immediately freaking out about desync
[3:31] <phelps> one of those black-friday deals
[3:31] <sney> word
[3:32] <phelps> I got it for a media center... has HDM out, says it supports 1080
[3:32] <phelps> stutters on decoding
[3:32] <phelps> but this is looking very awesome so far :)
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[3:33] <phelps> it even plays the 4k file I have (slight stutters every now and then)
[3:33] <phelps> thats probably due to the sd card tbh though
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[3:33] <sney> yeah eventually the i/o chokes. usb drive may be a little quicker
[3:34] <phelps> probably!
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[3:35] <phelps> that hadn't occurred to me
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[3:35] <clever> phelps: or up the buffer in mplayer
[3:36] <phelps> mplayer won't play 720
[3:38] <phelps> omxplayer works though
[3:38] <clever> ah, dvd on pi?
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[3:39] <phelps> no, just regular h264
[3:39] <phelps> Archer episode to be specific
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[3:39] <phelps> mplayer is all glitched out
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[3:52] <RiXtEr> Hey guys I have wired up a simple switch and put a 1.7k ohm (I think) resistor between it and the pi. The switch sits inside of the cup of my door lock and I am wanting it to read if the door is locked or not. This works fine, except, when I turn my lights on it reads as the switch status has changed. Here is my current code http://paste.ubuntu.com/6362404/ even with that bouncetime it still reads the light power as well... any suggestions?
[3:52] <clever> at a guess, id say your signal wire isnt shielded
[3:53] <RiXtEr> clever, indeed... its regular cat5e (unsheilded)
[3:53] <RiXtEr> is there anyway (other than shielding it) to compensate for the problem?
[3:53] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[3:54] <piney> is that resistor in series?
[3:54] <shiftplusone> does that automatically enable the pullup resistor?
[3:54] <RiXtEr> piney, yes.
[3:54] <clever> use a transistor to detect the signal and switch in a higher voltage
[3:54] <piney> sounds to me like you need a pull-up resistor
[3:54] <clever> then use another transistor at the pi end to step it back down
[3:54] <shiftplusone> there's an internal one, but it needs to be enabled... I can't tell if that code does that.
[3:54] * piney reads the code
[3:54] <clever> or stonger pullup/down resistors
[3:54] <clever> if the lights are causing it, its not likely to be a source issue
[3:55] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, I don't have it using the pullup resistor
[3:55] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, enable the pullup
[3:55] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, I thought that was only for certain gpio's
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[3:55] <clever> RiXtEr: if you leave a pin as input with no defined signal, it will float, and randomly change between high and low
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[3:55] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, when the switch is open, you have a floating input, so a little bit of interference causes the signal to change.
[3:56] <shiftplusone> or what he said
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[3:57] <piney> you need a resistor to 3v3 (pullup) or ground (pull down) to cause it to read one state all the time except when the button is pressed
[3:57] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, if you use this tutorial, http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/robot/buttons_and_switches/, their circuit has an external pull up, so they don't enable it.
[3:57] <RiXtEr> reading now.
[3:57] <shiftplusone> don't, it doesn't work for you.
[3:58] <RiXtEr> piney, so if I run the resistor between the hot and the ground would that help?
[3:58] <clever> RiXtEr: first, what is your switch connected to?
[3:58] <clever> gpio and what?
[3:58] <RiXtEr> clever, gpio 17 and ground.
[3:58] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, https://code.google.com/p/raspberry-gpio-python/wiki/Inputs read that
[3:59] <RiXtEr> (well a resistor in there)
[3:59] <clever> then you want the resistor between gpio and 3.3v
[3:59] <shiftplusone> GPIO.setup(channel, GPIO.IN, pull_up_down=GPIO.PUD_UP)
[3:59] <clever> or enable the internal one like shiftplusone said
[3:59] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, been through that page many times... just didn't understand the pullup/pulldown language :)
[4:00] <shiftplusone> do you understand now?
[4:00] <piney> btw enabling the internal pull up is only needed one time ever. unless changed
[4:00] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, eh....
[4:00] <clever> once per bootup
[4:00] <piney> oh?
[4:00] <shiftplusone> ... once every time your code runs... don't make assumptions about initial conditions.
[4:00] <clever> that kind of stuff is lost on restart, yeah, what shiftplusone said
[4:01] <RiXtEr> yeah the setup runs everytime the code runs... so this would set it every time.
[4:01] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, do you understand the idea of floating inputs?
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[4:01] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, not exactly.
[4:01] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, I am over simplifying it in my head I think... I think of a switch being a full connection between hot and ground.
[4:02] <clever> RiXtEr: if the pin isnt connected to a defined level like gnd or 3.3v, it will pick up RF energy, and the voltage could be anything
[4:02] <clever> youve made a random number generator!
[4:02] <RiXtEr> clever, :)
[4:02] <clever> you likely dont want a random number when the door is unlocked
[4:03] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, imagine electricity as a field (which it is). Any time there is a change in current, there's an excitation in the electromagnetic field, which can be picked up by other wires (that's how radio works). When your input isn't connected to anything (as in the case of your circuit when the switch is open), it acts as an antenna for such changes.
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[4:03] <shiftplusone> I am oversimplifying as well, and probably got a bit of that wrong, but it's good enough as a basic understanding.
[4:04] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, makes sense, but why is it reading the interference when the swich is depressed (wouldnt' that be a closed switch)
[4:04] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, there are 'normally open and 'normally closed' switches. The pushbuttons are usually 'normally open'
[4:04] <clever> RiXtEr: stick a volt meter on the gpio pin, what is it reading?
[4:05] <RiXtEr> clever, its downstairs :) I will check it out in a bit. :)
[4:07] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, so, when you design the circuit, you have to make sure that from the point of view of the gpio pin, there is either 3.3v 0v and under no circumstances should it be 'undefined'. It may help to redraw the circuit with the switch closed and another circuit with the switch open and consider the flow of the currents and voltage levels.
[4:07] <shiftplusone> at least to get the idea if you're struggling with it
[4:07] <clever> depending on how long the wire is, you may also have to consider the resistance of the wire (gnd->wire->switch->wire->gpio) vs the resistance of the pullup
[4:07] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, I was thinking the gpio in input mode would always be 3.3v
[4:08] <clever> and treat it as a voltage divider
[4:08] <RiXtEr> but if thats not the case then I understand more why the pullup resistor is there.
[4:08] * Vialas_Air (~Vialas_Ai@203.10.91.11) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:08] <Vialas_Air> hello everyone
[4:08] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, if it's always 3.3v, how would it know a switch was pressed?
[4:08] <shiftplusone> hello, sir.
[4:09] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, fair point ;)
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[4:10] <Vialas_Air> I am wondering if its possible to set up a SD card immage on my computer though a emulation and then copy it to a SD card for production?
[4:12] <shiftplusone> Vialas_Air, yes, in theory.
[4:12] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, the other thing I am not quite understanding is if I take a 3.3v gpio pin and ground it its shorted, how is putting this on a switch any different (or does the pi understand that it should be shorted when its in input mode)
[4:13] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, input and output mode work differently.
[4:13] <clever> input mode means that the cpu isnt driving the line at all (if you dont count the pullup)
[4:13] <clever> so its free to have any voltage on it
[4:13] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, in input mode, the pin does not provide any current, it's in a sort of high impedance state.
[4:13] <clever> yeah
[4:14] <Vialas_Air> shiftplusone in theory.... but a pain in da pita in reality?
[4:14] <shiftplusone> Vialas_Air, nuh, it will work fine, there are just a few things to consider. In what way do you want to set it up?
[4:14] * Jinx (~Jinx@unaffiliated/jinx) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:14] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, clever, Ok, thats what I kind of thought, but wanted to confirm a bit more on it... so if I add the pullup resistor, what keeps me from burning up my board when I click the switch?
[4:15] <clever> RiXtEr: ohms law, resistor and voltage gives you current going thru the switch to force it to gnd
[4:15] <Vialas_Air> shiftplusone i want to run the immage on my mac, install software that i want (ie screen, python, lampstack) and then when i get home, load that immage to my sdcard for production
[4:15] <clever> with a big enough resistor, that current wont be able to burn anything up
[4:15] <RiXtEr> clever, hence the 10k ohm builtin resistor..
[4:15] <RiXtEr> I understand now :)
[4:16] <clever> and if you look at it as a voltage divider, you basicaly have 0 ohms on the switch side and 10,000 ohms on the pullup
[4:16] <clever> so the output of the divider is 0 volts
[4:16] <clever> (under perfect conditions)
[4:16] <shiftplusone> Vialas_Air, yeah, you'll be fine. I have a tutorial which should help you get things going. http://xecdesign.com/qemu-emulating-raspberry-pi-the-easy-way/
[4:16] <shiftplusone> Before the image goes back on the pi, undo the changes in that 'first boot' section of the tutorial.
[4:17] <Vialas_Air> oh thats great, thanks shiftplusone
[4:17] <Vialas_Air> :D
[4:17] <Vialas_Air> [14:16:58] <shiftplusone> Before the image goes back on the pi, undo the changes in that 'first boot' section of the tutorial.
[4:17] <shiftplusone> O_o
[4:17] <shiftplusone> np
[4:18] <shiftplusone> let me know if you have any problems. I just updated the tutorial recently, so I am not 100% sure it's perfectly clear yet.
[4:19] <shiftplusone> Vialas_Air, hm, now that I think of it... I am pretty sure that the first time raspbian boots it generates ssh keys and such.... I am not sure what the security implications are of distributing an image that has been booted into.
[4:20] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, btw, I do recommend having a resistor in series as well. If the pin happens to be in output mode and you don't have a series resistor, bad things may happen.
[4:21] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, indeed... I have a 1.7k (I think thats the one I put on it) on it.
[4:21] <shiftplusone> RiXtEr, that cambridge tutorial (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/robot/buttons_and_switches/ ) has a good circuit. Use that, but an internal pull up or pull down resistor, as necessary.
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[4:22] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:24] <RiXtEr> shiftplusone, very helpful, thanks for that.
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[4:24] <shiftplusone> np
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[4:29] <Vialas_Air> shiftplusone hmm interesting,,,, what do you mean, cant it generate a new set of keys?
[4:30] <clever> Vialas_Air: if you manualy delete the keys, it will create a new set on bootup
[4:30] <shiftplusone> It can, but it's probably something to keep in mind before you distribute the image.
[4:30] <Vialas_Air> nice, so that should fix the problem
[4:30] <Vialas_Air> :)
[4:30] <shiftplusone> I think the MAC address can also be an issue
[4:30] <clever> Vialas_Air: they are under /etc/ssh/,the name should be obvious
[4:31] * andrew91_ (~andrew918@206.223.179.158) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[4:31] <clever> all the key and pub files
[4:31] <shiftplusone> At least if you use an SD card in one pi and then move it to another, you have to delete some file to get the new MAC address
[4:32] <Vialas_Air> oh realy... that sucks
[4:32] <shiftplusone> again though, I am not 100% sure of this.
[4:33] <clever> first time i'm hearing of that
[4:33] <Vialas_Air> i always assumed one of the benifits is the sdcard and same hardware made it 'hot swappable'
[4:33] <clever> only similar thing ive heard of, is that some udev rules will bind eth0 to a given mac
[4:33] <Vialas_Air> shiftplusone - your tutorial does not cover mac ? ;(
[4:33] <clever> and if you change the network card, it winds up at eth1, eth2, eth3 ...
[4:33] <shiftplusone> Vialas_Air, my tutorial is only for booting the raspbian image.
[4:34] <clever> Vialas_Air: do you need to boot the image in an emulator?
[4:35] <clever> you can usualy do most things without booting it, if you know how
[4:36] <shiftplusone> http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=37779&p=314357
[4:37] <shiftplusone> hm ,nvrm
[4:38] <Vialas_Air> well the only way i know how to install would be to boot it :$
[4:40] <clever> Vialas_Air: usualy, i would say to mount it thru the loopback device and do a chroot on it
[4:40] <clever> but that only works if the image uses the same cpu type as the host
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[4:40] <clever> you could boot one pi image in qemu, then use that trick inside it to mount a 2nd image without booting it
[4:40] <clever> but thats rather complex
[4:40] <shiftplusone> if you set up binfmt right and put qemu-arm-user-static you can chroot into it just fine
[4:41] * bigx (~bigx@cam44-2-82-235-243-114.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[4:41] <clever> ah, never tried using qemu like that, but i have heard of it
[4:41] <clever> got a link explaining it?
[4:41] <shiftplusone> just a sec
[4:42] <clever> it should also help speed up my mplayer/omx stuff
[4:42] <shiftplusone> The appendix of this page https://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation
[4:42] <clever> nice
[4:43] <shiftplusone> haven't tried it myself, so there may be an extra step I am not aware of
[4:43] <clever> from what ive heard, binfmt will detect the arm programs, and fire up qemu, which then emulates the cpu and translates the syscalls over
[4:44] <shiftplusone> yes, exactly
[4:44] <clever> so your running an arm userspace on an x86 kernel
[4:44] <clever> and binfmt lets you do it entirely transparently
[4:44] <clever> hmmm, but its ubuntu instructions, *adapts them to gentoo*
[4:44] <shiftplusone> gentoo probably has a better guide somewhere
[4:45] <shiftplusone> that was just the first thing google barfed at me.
[4:45] <clever> step 1: ramboot ~ # emerge -pv qemu
[4:46] <Vialas_Air> are you guys still talking about what i was asking... if so its way above my head lol if not... sorry
[4:46] <shiftplusone> Vialas_Air, yes, but you'll be fine without it.
[4:46] <clever> Vialas_Air: it can be used to install things without booting
[4:46] <clever> just another way of doing it
[4:46] * ponA (4e2b2036@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.43.32.54) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:47] <Vialas_Air> oh
[4:47] <Vialas_Air> im confused lol
[4:47] <shiftplusone> clever, I haven't looked through it yet, but the URL is promising http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Crossdev_qemu-static-user-chroot
[4:47] <clever> shiftplusone: looks like i need to add arm to QEMU_SOFTMMU_TARGETS first
[4:47] <clever> or nothing will work
[4:48] <clever> QEMU_USER_TARGETS actualy
[4:48] <shiftplusone> uhu
[4:48] <ponA> hi guys, is there a way to display a channel list of all channels on freenode? i found this channel through a website and i would like to know if there are more channels about things which i might be interested in
[4:49] <shiftplusone> ponA, what client are you using?
[4:49] * Vialas_Air (~Vialas_Ai@203.10.91.11) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[4:49] <ponA> shiftplusonw, i use the web client
[4:49] <ponA> so close :)
[4:49] <sney> ponA: http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode
[4:49] * Vialas_Air (~Vialas_Ai@203.10.91.11) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:50] <shiftplusone> I am sure there's an irc command for it... but I don't know what it is.
[4:50] <Vialas_Air> im confused lolthansk for the help guys, shiftplusone and clever
[4:50] <clever> ponA: the command is /list
[4:50] <Xark> Hmm, /list ?
[4:50] <Vialas_Air> ill think ill need to spend some time working it all out
[4:50] <clever> and it will give 1000's of results
[4:50] <shiftplusone> ah
[4:51] <shiftplusone> Vialas_Air, np. The qemu-user stuff is just an alternative method we were discussing... it's not a suggestion for you (yet anyway)
[4:51] <clever> shiftplusone: hmmm, i should enable qemu 64bit also
[4:51] <Xark> Yeah, be prepared to scroll for minutes... :)
[4:52] <shiftplusone> Not sure if I am more surprised that there's a eurovision channel or that there are actually people in there O_o
[4:52] <Vialas_Air> oh ok cool
[4:53] <clever> shiftplusone: hmmm, next is binfmt in the kernel, *runs menuconfig*
[4:53] * arza (arza@unaffiliated/arza) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:53] <shiftplusone> clever, you don't have to narrate everything XD
[4:53] <ponA> okay, /list really gives a lot of results, but that is what i meant, thx!
[4:55] <ponA> anyway, i think i will use the netsplit web-search as it is much more convenient :)
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[5:01] <clever> shiftplusone: oooo, this may also help with distcc!
[5:01] <clever> shiftplusone: run a 64bit distcc compiler on a 32bit host
[5:01] * jaytk (~jaytk@108-232-157-80.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:01] <clever> other direction is much simpler
[5:02] <shiftplusone> hm... wouldn't that be fully emulated (very slow)?
[5:02] <clever> but the total speed of 1 real 64bit and 3 emulated 64bits is still faster then 1 64 on its own
[5:03] * Out`Of`Control (~Viper@unaffiliated/outofcontrol/x-1373891) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:03] <clever> i'll have to play with that a bit more when i get a chance
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[5:12] <clever> shiftplusone: are there any fixed URL's that can be used to download an sd card image?
[5:13] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable055.111-22-96.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:14] <shiftplusone> Are these not fixed? http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/images/
[5:14] <shiftplusone> for example, http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/images/raspbian-2013-10-07/2013-09-25-wheezy-raspbian.zip
[5:14] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:14] <duckinator> heh, been a while since i talked in here :)
[5:14] <shiftplusone> welcome back
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[5:15] <clever> shiftplusone: that looks good, except for the date in it
[5:15] <clever> works for no
[5:15] <clever> w
[5:15] <duckinator> anyone know of a small touchpad-like thing that works via USB or via the Pi's GPIO? like 2-3 diagonally. doesn't need to be touchscreen (would actually almost prefer if it weren't).
[5:16] <duckinator> like 2-3 inches diagonally*.
[5:17] <Xark> duckinator: Hmm, this is very cool, but needs Bluetooth... https://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/
[5:17] <duckinator> "the largest multi-touch trackpad ever"... it's like the exact opposite of what i need. :P
[5:18] <shiftplusone> I am sure there are larger ones from wacom
[5:18] <shiftplusone> though they may be sold as tablets
[5:18] <duckinator> no, i need something smaller lol
[5:19] <shiftplusone> don't worry, duckinator we will find you a nice massive touchpad.
[5:19] <Xark> duckinator: OK, on the other end of the spectrum there are devices like http://www.parallax.com/product/27903 (as seen in phones) - but you would need GPIO or AVR to interface.
[5:19] <duckinator> heyy, that's closer to what i'm looking for! thanks Xark. :D
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[5:24] <duckinator> heh, just didn't know the term. lots of results now that i know what those things are called. :P http://www.mouser.com/new/Avago-Technologies/avagoadbs/ may be promising...
[5:24] * snsei (~snsei@nv-76-0-234-12.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:25] <shiftplusone> Is this for navigating a menu or what?
[5:25] <shiftplusone> seems like the trackpad sensor on some phones
[5:26] * snsei (~snsei@nv-76-0-234-12.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:26] <Xark> shiftplusone: Exactly. AKA optical trackball.
[5:26] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit ()
[5:26] <shiftplusone> ah, so we just have to mind duckinator a massive one of those... got it.
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[5:28] <duckinator> shiftplusone: yea, it is. idea i'm going for is something like that plus a small screen that can clip onto glasses (i didn't say it was a very ORIGINAL idea. :D), with a Pi for the brains.
[5:28] <shiftplusone> ah, nice
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[5:29] <shiftplusone> One of of doing it on the cheap is flipping a mouse upside down >.>... But i'll take my terrible ideas elsehwere.
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[5:30] <duckinator> the screen is almost guaranteed to be utter shit, but i'm hoping to eventually add an earpiece and have the majority of information be relayed using a combination of audio and video to avoid having to look at a tiny screen whenever I use it, so it's not a huge problem
[5:32] <shiftplusone> bah, duckinator .... the language policy! D=
[5:32] <duckinator> sorry. :<
[5:32] * mmhun (~georgewon@NYUFWA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-07.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:32] <shiftplusone> (doesn't bother me personally or anything, but you know... rules and all that >.>)
[5:33] <duckinator> heh, yea. ^^
[5:33] <clever> i didnt even notice it, had to reread it 5 times to find it
[5:33] <shiftplusone> After a while, you get Bad Word™ vision. <.<
[5:34] <duckinator> shiftplusone: main issue with the idea of ripping up an optical mice is a lot of them use lasers
[5:34] <clever> shiftplusone: ive gained auto-correct!
[5:34] <clever> i cant see typos :P
[5:34] <duckinator> and since the idea is a wearable computer... well, a laser pointing around randomly isn't the brightest idea, even if you can't actually see it. :D
[5:34] <shiftplusone> heh
[5:35] <duckinator> or are those ones the actual nice ones that have cameras
[5:35] <shiftplusone> Hm, I didn't know they even sold these sorts of screens that were even usable.
[5:35] <duckinator> i'm venturing into the land of things i know nothing about so i should probably stop
[5:35] <duckinator> you mean super-tiny ones? depends on your definition of usable :D
[5:35] <duckinator> and how much you're willing to pay for them >.>
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[5:36] <shiftplusone> fair enough
[5:36] <duckinator> the idea of a <1" screen is enough to baffle Google, it seems. bah!
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[5:37] <duckinator> not that i can blame it, i doubt they're bought particularly often
[5:39] <clever> duckinator: have you seen the galaxy gear?
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[5:40] <clever> duckinator: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p6lrpFp7cM
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[5:47] <duckinator> clever: pretty neat. and big. and pretty expensive. :P
[5:47] * duckinator likes smaller things
[5:47] <shiftplusone> seems a little silly without flexible electronics
[5:48] <duckinator> we're just not going to discuss how I sent that message from an S4.
[5:48] <shiftplusone> heh
[5:48] <clever> duckinator: still smaller then strapping a raspberry pi to your arm
[5:48] <duckinator> clever: hey now, i'm not going to strap it to my arm!
[5:49] <duckinator> but yes it is. it's also like 9-10x more expensive. :P
[5:49] <clever> oh yeah, have you seen that crazy guy that implanted a bluetooth temp sensor?
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[5:50] <duckinator> clever: i saw a picture of the guy that shoved a large box-like thing in his arm. i'm assuming a bluetooth temp sensor is vastly smaller than that thing?
[5:51] <clever> yeah, thats the guy, i believe all it did was report his body temp over bluetooth
[5:51] <clever> and it had a large lipo battery
[5:51] <duckinator> wait what
[5:51] <clever> no sane doctor would do it, do he has a tattoo/peircing guy do it
[5:52] <duckinator> that monstrous thing was just a temperature sensor with a battery? :|
[5:52] <clever> yes...
[5:53] <clever> cant find the link anymore
[5:53] * Vibe (~Vibe@gateway/tor-sasl/vib3) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:53] <duckinator> i liked it better when i was mislead to believe it was actually a small computer
[5:54] <clever> ah, found it
[5:54] <clever> 01 19:08:15< Firehopper> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/geeky-gadgets/~3/XGY0QgT8N0A/ < Hacker embeds a computer in his arm.. wtf was he thinking..
[5:54] <clever> ah, its a circadia 1.0 computer, with a temp sensor and 3 LED's
[5:54] <duckinator> ah
[5:54] <shiftplusone> jesus
[5:55] <clever> shiftplusone: exactly
[5:55] <duckinator> well that's still beyond nuts, but... slightly less so than doing that for just a temperature sensor.
[5:55] <duckinator> just ever so slightly.
[5:56] <clever> its almost as big as a raspberry pi in a case
[5:56] <clever> just plain crazy
[5:56] <clever> and whatever you do, dont put it in the arm like that :P
[5:56] <clever> find something softer and with more room, like the chest cavity
[5:57] <duckinator> haha, no kidding. that's a heck of a place to put that thing. i wish him luck with trying to ever bend his arm again.
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[5:57] <clever> duckinator: yep
[5:58] <shiftplusone> Looks like he accidentally swallowed his phone and it went wrong.
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[5:58] <clever> ive seen some real brain implant stuff, that doesnt exactly go in the brain :P
[5:58] <clever> the main body goes in the chest, and they run the electrode up into the brain
[5:58] <clever> simply so you dont have a lump on the side of your skull
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[5:59] <duckinator> personally, i'll stick to things not shoved inside random body cavities, TYVM. :D
[6:00] <clever> he made a new cavity ...
[6:00] <duckinator> like things worn externally! hey, how about that.
[6:00] <clever> also, what is airport security going to do when you say it contains a lipo
[6:00] <clever> call the bomb squad?
[6:01] <duckinator> suddenly the shirt he wore in that picture seems a lot more appropriate
[6:01] <clever> lol
[6:01] <shiftplusone> >_<
[6:01] <Vialas_Air> ok my battery in my lappy is about to die
[6:01] <clever> eek!
[6:01] <clever> run for the wall!!
[6:02] <Vialas_Air> thanks for your help once aain clever and shiftplusone
[6:02] <clever> add some supercaps to it!!
[6:02] <Vialas_Air> charger not here clever :(
[6:02] <clever> that reminds me, ive seen some new charging ideas on hackaday recently
[6:02] <shiftplusone> np, good luck with it.
[6:02] <clever> you plug a supercap into the wall, and charge it in 5 seconds
[6:02] <Vialas_Air> np, ill prob be on later and say hi
[6:02] <Vialas_Air> cya later
[6:02] <Vialas_Air> :D
[6:02] * Vialas_Air (~Vialas_Ai@203.10.91.11) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[6:02] <clever> then plug it into your phone, and let the lipo charge slowly over time
[6:02] * jaytk (~jaytk@108-232-157-80.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[6:02] <duckinator> hmmm
[6:02] <clever> so you can refill your phone in seconds
[6:03] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:03] <clever> duckinator: ive also done similar things with my tv remotes
[6:04] <clever> i charged a supercap to 2.5 volts, stuffed it in where the battery goes, and the remote worked for weeks
[6:04] <clever> i took it out before it ran out, lol
[6:04] <clever> and it was abnormaly light
[6:04] <duckinator> haha, nice
[6:04] <clever> but that only worked on the fixed tv remote
[6:04] <clever> if i put it into the programmable remote, it went flat instantly
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[6:05] * Chetic (~Chetic@c83-250-75-148.bredband.comhem.se) Quit ()
[6:05] <clever> i also tried the cordless phone, it only ran for about 3 seconds
[6:05] <clever> basicaly, i went nuts and stuffed it into any battery powered thing i could grab :P
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[6:07] <clever> duckinator: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKI-ovYW2Nw
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[6:09] <clever> shiftplusone: ok, now to test out the chroot magic...
[6:10] <shiftplusone> have fun
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[6:12] <clever> shiftplusone: eek!, it has a partition table
[6:12] <clever> that makes loopback more tricky
[6:12] <clever> forgot about that minor detail
[6:12] <shiftplusone> nuh, it's not an issue
[6:12] <shiftplusone> just provide the offset
[6:13] <clever> yeah, but Vialas_Air likely cant handle something that complex :P
[6:13] <shiftplusone> mount -o loop,offset=bleh image /mnt/bleh or whatever
[6:13] <clever> and its harder to automate
[6:14] <shiftplusone> Probably trivial for someone who knows how to use sed/gawk and such.
[6:14] <shiftplusone> get the output of "file image.img" multiply startsector by 512 and you're done.
[6:14] <clever> 2013-09-25-wheezy-raspbian.img: ; partition 1: ID=0xc, starthead 130, startsector 8192, 114688 sectors; partition 2: ID=0x83, starthead 165, startsector 122880, 5662720 sectors
[6:14] <clever> 122880 is the number needed
[6:15] <shiftplusone> (122880*512)
[6:15] <clever> mount 2013-09-25-wheezy-raspbian.img -o loop,offset=$((122880*512)),ro /mnt/rpi/
[6:15] <clever> bash can do math for you
[6:15] <shiftplusone> ah... I've been using bc >.>
[6:15] <clever> bash cant do floating point
[6:17] <clever> and the fat partition usualy goes to /boot right?
[6:17] <clever> yep
[6:17] <clever> fstab! :D
[6:18] <clever> ramboot rpi # chroot . bin/bash
[6:18] <clever> chroot: failed to run command ‘bin/bash’: No such file or directory
[6:18] <clever> hmmmmm
[6:18] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:18] <shiftplusone> * /bin/bash
[6:18] <shiftplusone> not relative to where you are
[6:19] <clever> same error, chroot: failed to run command ‘/bin/bash’: No such file or directory
[6:19] <clever> and it always works relative when doing x86
[6:19] <shiftplusone> hrmph
[6:20] <shiftplusone> and if you don't specify a command?
[6:20] <clever> shiftplusone: http://pastebin.com/jtA0dALD
[6:21] <clever> the file does exist, but execve claims not found when it tries to run it, after the chroot&chdir
[6:21] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:21] <shiftplusone> no idea
[6:22] <clever> let me try turning on more flags in qemu
[6:22] <clever> bin/bash: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, EABI5 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=7c1ffb5da9c89f46ad1ed309aeef92de18b89ea9, stripped
[6:22] * St0rmSh4dow (~St0rmSh4d@122.172.161.153) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:22] <clever> oh wait, how is it going to access the x86 qemu from inside the chroot...
[6:22] <clever> that might be it
[6:23] <clever> interpreter /usr/bin/qemu-arm
[6:23] <clever> yeah, its setup to find the arm interpreter here, but its not there anymore due to chroot
[6:23] <shiftplusone> pretty sure that gentoo tutorial tells you to copy qemu-arm-static into the chroot
[6:24] <clever> except i dont have a static version, *looks arround*
[6:24] <clever> also, the gentoo tutorial tells you to just install the debian package :P
[6:24] <shiftplusone> just add the 'static' use flag
[6:24] <shiftplusone> oh >_<
[6:24] <clever> static-user flag in this case
[6:24] <clever> it has several static flags, for each sub-module
[6:24] <shiftplusone> ah
[6:25] * aphadke (~Adium@c-71-202-129-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:25] <clever> -static -static-softmmu -static-user
[6:26] <clever> but that would make perfect sense, why it failed
[6:26] <shiftplusone> I would've expected a better error if that's the case.
[6:26] <clever> execve("bin/bash", ["bin/bash"], [/* 49 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[6:26] <clever> ENOENT The file filename or a script or ELF interpreter does not exist, or a shared library needed for file or interpreter cannot be found.
[6:26] <shiftplusone> oh
[6:26] <clever> in this case, it falls under 'ELF interpreter does not exist'
[6:27] <shiftplusone> fair enough then
[6:27] <clever> its just a bit wonky, because we are using an ELF interpreter on an ELF binary
[6:27] <clever> so the error can lead you down the wrong path
[6:29] <clever> Error: zlib check failed
[6:29] <clever> Make sure to have the zlib libs and headers installed.
[6:29] <clever> and the package fails to compile without zlib, broken depends
[6:29] <clever> oh, wait, static-libs flag isnt enabled, different broken depends
[6:29] <shiftplusone> I don't miss gentoo too much
[6:30] <clever> you learn a lot more about how things work, and can remove things you dont want
[6:30] <shiftplusone> Yeah and I recommend gentoo to anyone who wants to learn linux a little better
[6:31] <clever> but then again, i have installed http://linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/ before
[6:31] <shiftplusone> same
[6:31] <clever> thats a learning expeirence
[6:31] <clever> i ran it on my router for several years
[6:31] <clever> the lack of a package manager is a pain
[6:34] <clever> shiftplusone: ok, where did the package put the file...
[6:34] <shiftplusone> Don't ask me D=
[6:35] <clever> ah, it didnt, /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.7.3/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lglib-2.0
[6:35] <shiftplusone> Gentoo! \o/
[6:35] <shiftplusone> (just steal the debian package)
[6:35] <clever> lol
[6:36] <clever> thats cheating :P
[6:36] <shiftplusone> true
[6:40] <clever> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=487918 already an open bug for that problem it seems
[6:40] <clever> hmmm, and there is a seperate qemu-user package with correct depends
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[6:56] <clever> shiftplusone: and it worked
[6:56] <shiftplusone> nice.... only took 3 hours too.
[6:57] <clever> and ive now made bash scripts to automate the entire thing
[6:57] <clever> which i can toss on github
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[7:00] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Quit: *poof*)
[7:00] <clever> shiftplusone: https://github.com/cleverca22/crosspiroot
[7:01] <shiftplusone> I don't see where the binary is copies across O_o
[7:01] <clever> oops
[7:02] <clever> fixed
[7:02] <shiftplusone> should be handy for some folks
[7:03] <clever> the real test, is to run only the scripts on a fresh machine
[7:03] <shiftplusone> (and I will probably end up stealing bits for a tutorial.... haven't put anything new on the blog since before the pi came out >_<
[7:03] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[7:03] <clever> and see if they work
[7:03] * ponA (4e2b2036@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.43.32.54) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[7:03] <clever> (evil grin)
[7:03] <clever> going to test it under a double chroot!
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[7:06] <clever> outdoor: -3.00c(26.60f)
[7:06] <clever> shiftplusone: time to bring in the garbage cans, wearing nothing but a house coat...
[7:06] <shiftplusone> ouch
[7:07] * kilnaar (~kilnaar@c-98-236-141-239.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: kilnaar)
[7:07] <shiftplusone> Had a nice warm day here actually... went kayaking for a bit.. probably going to regret it when the sunburn and muscle ache kicks in.
[7:07] <clever> oh, and its 2am :P
[7:07] <clever> and i heard something run thru the grass when i opened the door
[7:08] <shiftplusone> nice how nature provides friendly reminders that I shouldn't go outside... ever. =D
[7:08] <clever> yep! :P
[7:09] <clever> wasnt that cold, was actualy nice
[7:09] <clever> living room: 22.56c(72.61f),
[7:09] <clever> been sweating like a pig indoors all day :P
[7:09] <clever> maybe i should open some windows
[7:10] <shiftplusone> or turn down the heater maybe? O_o
[7:10] <clever> living room off after 473 seconds
[7:10] <clever> 2013-10-30 07:36:22 portb changed from 00000010 -> 00000000
[7:11] <clever> shiftplusone: the heat hasnt turned on in this room for 6 days
[7:11] <clever> turning it down will have no effect
[7:11] <shiftplusone> O_o 20 degrees inside when it's below freezing outside and no heater? O_o
[7:11] <clever> computers, plus the basement heating
[7:12] <clever> it leaks up the stairs
[7:12] <shiftplusone> hm
[7:12] <clever> plus leftover heat from the day, *grabs graphs*
[7:12] <clever> shiftplusone: http://ext.earthtools.ca/export/graph_105.html
[7:13] <shiftplusone> Seems like you take the temperature seriously
[7:13] <clever> http://ext.earthtools.ca/export/graph_70.html
[7:14] <clever> you can also see that my server room is a solid 3 degrees hotter then the bedroom
[7:14] <clever> and the heating is regulating based on bedroom temp
[7:15] <shiftplusone> Then why is the kitchen so much better regulated? O_o
[7:15] <shiftplusone> ah, nvrm.... different scales >.>
[7:15] <clever> the kitchen is just above the stairs
[7:15] <clever> the bedroom is in the basement
[7:16] <clever> so all the heat from the bedroom drifts up, and the stairs act like a low-pass filter
[7:17] * freiform (~frfrm@dslb-178-003-024-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:17] <Vialas_> hello clever and shiftplusone
[7:17] <Vialas_> how you guys going?
[7:17] <clever> good
[7:17] <shiftplusone> welcome back
[7:17] <Vialas_> thanks
[7:18] <Vialas_> macbook air is on the charger
[7:18] <Vialas_> :D
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[7:18] <clever> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473579299420924&set=np.201743759.752837534&type=1&ref=notif&notif_t=notify_me
[7:19] <Vialas_> facebook?
[7:19] * Vialas_ vomits
[7:19] <shiftplusone> bad! bad clever!
[7:19] <clever> its a picture saying that it would take 76 work days (8 hours a day) for the average person to read the terms and conditions they agree to in a year
[7:19] <Vialas_> dam
[7:20] <shiftplusone> Better get it on audiobook then
[7:20] <Vialas_> thats a lot of work hours, can i tax deduct that time toooo?
[7:20] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[7:20] <clever> and one of the comments is a screenshot from that south park episode with the humancentiPad
[7:20] <clever> be carefull what you agree to
[7:20] <Vialas_> lol
[7:20] <shiftplusone> though I suppose 90% of most ToS are identical, so you could cut the time down by taking the common points out first
[7:21] <Vialas_> yea… there was a website that did something like that
[7:21] <Vialas_> showed differences or something in ToS
[7:22] * thesheff17 (~thesheff1@216-80-21-199.c3-0.lem-ubr1.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:23] * brainmachine (~alpha@130.185.155.170) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:24] <Vialas_> http://tosdr.org
[7:24] <Vialas_> thats what i was thinking
[7:24] <clever> http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/09/02/the-lawbringer-a-rookies-guide-to-the-tou/
[7:25] <clever> this article explains everything that your agreeing to when you play wow
[7:25] <Vialas_> i doesnt play wow
[7:26] <clever> parts of it may match up to other games
[7:26] <Vialas_> rgr
[7:26] <shiftplusone> Neither... back in high school I was addicted to an mmo... never again I said. D=
[7:26] <shiftplusone> And now I accidentally ended up playing a MUD somehow =(
[7:26] <clever> Vialas_: bits like section 7, which is in all caps, lol
[7:27] <clever> explaining how you dont own your account or any item in the account
[7:27] <clever> so you cant legaly sell or give it away
[7:27] <Vialas_> section 7 in what?
[7:27] <shiftplusone> that's common sense though
[7:27] <clever> the warcraft terms of use
[7:27] <clever> dating back to 2010
[7:27] <Vialas_> oh roger
[7:27] * S0-2 (~sgra@gateway/tor-sasl/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:27] <shiftplusone> You're renting a service... it makes sense that you don't own anything.
[7:28] <Vialas_> ya
[7:28] * andrew91_ (~andrew918@206.223.179.158) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[7:28] <clever> shiftplusone: thats not the tou, thats the eula i think
[7:28] <Vialas_> tell that to a 11yo boy who put all his pocket money into his level 10 greefer or whatever they are
[7:28] <clever> its complicated
[7:29] <clever> Vialas_: oh, and you must be an adult to agree to the contract
[7:29] <shiftplusone> Though I do wonder how legally enforceable such things are.
[7:29] <clever> shiftplusone: i think its mostly a thing where they just ban/delete your account if you dont obey
[7:30] <shiftplusone> Yeah, but I was thinking more of eulas prohibiting reverse engineering in countries where reverse engineering is legal.
[7:30] <clever> ive also noticed, that the payment controls that the helpline has, are very limited
[7:30] <clever> for example, if you pay for the wrong account by mistake, the only fix is to ban that account for 1 year
[7:30] <clever> and refund the money
[7:31] <clever> they cant undo the time added to it, just lock you out of it for that lenth of time
[7:32] <shiftplusone> I'm off, nap time!
[7:32] <clever> also, the contract crap they had with d3, was just nutty
[7:32] <Vialas_> wow
[7:32] <Vialas_> thats harsh clever
[7:32] <Vialas_> hmm that may be a bad way of getting someones account baned
[7:32] <clever> Vialas_: effectively, there is no real difference
[7:32] <Vialas_> pay for their account and banzor them
[7:32] <clever> i was told that if i pay for the account again, the ban would be lifted early
[7:33] <clever> but the d3 crap
[7:33] <clever> you had to pay for 1 year of warcraft, and you got a free copy of d3
[7:33] <clever> but you cant just get 1 year worth of game time cards and add them all at once
[7:33] <Vialas_> hmm
[7:33] <clever> you MUST add a credit card to your account
[7:33] <Vialas_> seems fishy to me
[7:34] <clever> the credit card thing, is to force you to pay for the full year of wow, its a contract thing
[7:34] <clever> but the idiots dont let you pay the full year upfront and say 'f off'
[7:34] <Vialas_> yea
[7:34] <Vialas_> hmmm
[7:34] <clever> the most you can do is 6 months reocuring
[7:34] <clever> and it must be done with a credit card, they dont want you to forget in 6 months
[7:35] <clever> oh, they also claim to accept paypal, then paypal demands a credit card :P
[7:35] * JMichaelX is now known as Schlappi
[7:35] <clever> and with the new blizzard wallet for d3, they take your money, then refuse to let you spend it, lol
[7:35] <Vialas_> me glad me doent playz the wow
[7:35] <Vialas_> haha
[7:36] <clever> its better now that my bank has come out with a virtual visa deal
[7:37] <clever> its a visa card#, with no mag strip, and it goes directly to the normal checking account, no rope to hang yourself with
[7:37] <Triffid_Hunter> clever: they've had visa debit here for years, they're combined with regular bank cards so you can use it either way
[7:37] <Triffid_Hunter> where are you, that this is new?
[7:38] <clever> canada :P
[7:38] <clever> ive also tried to get the paypal visa thing, america only
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[7:53] <clever> living room: 21.31c(70.36f)
[7:53] <clever> shiftplusone: hmmm, still rather high
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[7:58] <fooman2011> hi guys :) Could you tell me if you know a microphone array voice tracker (like Kinect or like this one http://www.acousticmagic.com/) compatible with raspberry pi ?
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[8:00] <fooman2011> anyone ?
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[8:05] <clever> fooman2011: if its usb and the drivers use libusb, then it should be relatively simple
[8:05] <clever> just compile them on the rpi and let it rip
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[8:06] <fooman2011> clever: i'm not sure that I will have the drivers sources :/
[8:07] <clever> without source, you cant do anything
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[8:10] <fooman2011> clever ? "The Voice Tracker USB adapter is a modified VXI USB adapter that works with the USB audio drivers built into Windows and Mac Operating Systems. If your Linux OS has compatible USB audio drivers compatible it should work."
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[8:11] <fooman2011> Is it ok for Raspberry ?
[8:11] <fooman2011> (sorry I'm a Linux noob)
[8:12] <clever> if its standard drivers, then it may already be enabled, or you could enable them yourself
[8:12] * GingerGeek[Away] (~GingerGee@unaffiliated/gingergeek) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:12] * GingerGeek[Away] is now known as GingerGeek
[8:13] <fooman2011> ok thank you
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[8:24] <nerdboy> usb_audio is pretty generic... works well with call the cheap-to-not-so-cheap devices i'ved tried...
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[10:37] <afterglow94> hey guys
[10:38] <afterglow94> I desperately need some help with my rpi :(
[10:38] <LuisLeite> shoot
[10:38] <afterglow94> well
[10:38] <afterglow94> i'm using rpitwit
[10:38] * jet (~jerome@mna75-8-82-234-66-158.fbx.proxad.net) has left #raspberrypi
[10:38] <afterglow94> and usually i run it by going into a specific directory
[10:38] <afterglow94> cd ~/rpitwit_commands/
[10:38] <afterglow94> then i type
[10:38] * TomWij (~TomWij@gentoo/developer/tomwij) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:38] <afterglow94> "rpitwit"
[10:38] <afterglow94> to run it
[10:39] <afterglow94> but how do i do that same thing
[10:39] <afterglow94> in crontab
[10:39] <afterglow94> ?
[10:39] <afterglow94> i've tried @reboot (cd ~/rpitwit_commands/ && rpitwit) &
[10:39] <afterglow94> but it doesn
[10:39] <afterglow94> *it doesn't work
[10:39] <Jck_True_> Use the full path
[10:39] <Jck_True_> /home/pi/rpitwit_commands/rpitwit
[10:40] <afterglow94> the thing is
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[10:40] <afterglow94> the program rpitwit
[10:40] <afterglow94> isn't located in the folder
[10:40] * calcifea (~gtsb@gateway/tor-sasl/gitsu-sa) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:40] * busla (~busla@78-23-178-5.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:40] <afterglow94> it's at /usr/local/bin/rpitwit
[10:40] <afterglow94> (i think)
[10:40] <melfy> @reboot /home/pi/rpitwit_commands && /usr/local/bin/rpitwit
[10:41] <melfy> cd ^
[10:41] <afterglow94> no brackets? ( )
[10:41] <melfy> no
[10:41] <melfy> atleast i've never seen a cron that way
[10:41] <afterglow94> no "&" at the end?
[10:41] <melfy> no
[10:41] <afterglow94> okay let me try that :D
[10:41] <melfy> cron is already a background process
[10:42] <Jck_True_> you can use "which" to find out where the executable is
[10:42] <afterglow94> oh
[10:43] <afterglow94> wait, i'll try this out first
[10:43] <Jck_True_> which rpitwit
[10:43] <ShorTie> is there a 'make install' for rpitwit ??
[10:44] <afterglow94> i'm sorry but... I don't understand what 'make install' is
[10:44] <afterglow94> hahahah
[10:45] <ShorTie> it installs it so the system can see and use it without changing into that directory and running it
[10:45] <afterglow94> hmm I don't know
[10:45] * kwrazi (~kwrazi@220-245-146-175.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:45] <afterglow94> but i do know that i can run it by just typing "rpitwit"
[10:45] <afterglow94> nah it's not running, just rebooted
[10:46] <afterglow94> when i type in "which rpitwit"
[10:46] <ShorTie> from the specific directory or any where ??
[10:46] <afterglow94> it returns "/usr/local/bin/rpitwit"
[10:46] <Jck_True_> It's installed then
[10:46] <afterglow94> frm anywhere
[10:46] <ShorTie> ok, so it is installed
[10:46] <afterglow94> well it's still not running
[10:47] <afterglow94> I just tested it
[10:47] <afterglow94> i hope it's not running as root though
[10:47] <afterglow94> it has to run as "pi" user
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[10:47] * cumana (~koomahnah@unaffiliated/cumana) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1)
[10:49] <ShorTie> if you want it to run on boot, you can most likely add it to rc-update
[10:50] <afterglow94> but would it run as root?
[10:51] <melfy> @reboot cd /home/pi/rpitwit_commands && /usr/local/bin/rpitwit > /home/pi/whoops.log
[10:51] * andreiiar (~andrei@unaffiliated/andreiiar) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:51] <melfy> see if its got an error? :P
[10:51] <afterglow94> alright, i
[10:51] <afterglow94> will try that out :)
[10:51] <afterglow94> hold on
[10:55] * darkbasic_ (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:55] <afterglow94> nope
[10:55] <afterglow94> it's absolutely blank
[10:55] <afterglow94> :(
[10:55] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:56] <afterglow94> how do I check if the process is running?
[10:56] <afterglow94> ps aux | grep rpitwit?
[10:57] * snsei (~snsei@nv-76-0-234-12.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:58] <melfy> yep
[10:58] <afterglow94> root 2051 0.0 0.1 1752 524 ? Ss 17:53 0:00 /bin/sh -c cd /home/pi/rpitwit_commands && /usr/local/bin/rpitwit > /home/pi/whoops.log
[10:58] <afterglow94> root 2056 0.7 1.7 12772 7632 ? S 17:53 0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/bin/rpitwit
[10:58] <afterglow94> pi 2687 0.0 0.1 3544 872 pts/0 S+ 17:56 0:00 grep --color=auto rpitwit
[10:58] <afterglow94> that's what i get
[10:59] <melfy> looks like its running
[10:59] <afterglow94> am i editing the wrong crontab? hahaha
[10:59] <afterglow94> currently i'm adding it in
[11:00] <afterglow94> sudo crontab -e
[11:00] <melfy> i can see that as root is running it
[11:00] <afterglow94> but i want it to run as "pi"
[11:00] <afterglow94> not root...
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[11:02] <melfy> then take out the sudo crontab
[11:02] <melfy> just the good ol' "crontab -e " as your user
[11:03] <afterglow94> okay :) hold on
[11:03] * Portugol9 (Portugol9@unaffiliated/portugol9) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:03] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:04] * GingerGeek (~GingerGee@unaffiliated/gingergeek) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[11:05] <afterglow94> omg yes
[11:05] <afterglow94> it's working!!
[11:05] <afterglow94> Thank you so much guys!
[11:06] * jaytk (~jaytk@108-232-157-80.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[11:50] <ShorTie> how do you see what is in update-rc.d, in Gentoo it's 'rc-update show', but raspbian doesn't like show
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[12:02] <Vialas_> heya all
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[12:12] * xnyhps (~xnyhps@s.xnyhps.nl) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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[12:13] <Habbie> ShorTie, ls /etc/init.d
[12:14] * gates (uid4892@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hyqscvhdqmoqwqdh) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[12:17] <ShorTie> that is just a directory listing
[12:17] * felipealmeida (~user@177.98.97.217) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:17] <ShorTie> does not show run levels and stuff
[12:19] <pksato> ShorTie: cat /usr/sbin/update-rc.d
[12:19] <pksato> :)
[12:21] <ShorTie> na, thats just a mouth full of yuck, lol.
[12:24] * sco` (~ross@unaffiliated/sco/x-3425046) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:25] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[12:25] <pksato> If you asking that is init script on runlevel N, ls /etc/rcN.d
[12:26] <pksato> or ls /etc/rc*
[12:26] * Vibe (~Vibe@gateway/tor-sasl/vib3) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[12:31] <ShorTie> i'm trying to get tightvncserver to work on defualt 0 port
[12:31] <ShorTie> i can get it to work on other ports ok
[12:32] <ShorTie> and some way i've added it to start on boot and can't figure out how, lol.
[12:34] <ShorTie> i originally installed it as root if that matters
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[12:44] <ShorTie> blaaa, i 'apt-get remove tightvncserver' but 'ps aux | grep vnc' still see's it runnin as root on reboot
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[12:53] * Xano (~bart@524B988C.cm-4-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:53] <Xano> Hi! I'm looking at getting a Pi to run XBMC with data from a NAS. One thing I'm concerned about and about which I've read conflicting articles is SD card lifetime. Some sources claim power outages damage the card, other sources say you should hook up the Pi to your tv so it shuts down automatically, which makes me believe it could damage the card.
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[12:54] <ShorTie> yes, sdcards can get damaged from power problems
[12:55] * snsei (~snsei@nv-76-0-234-12.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:57] <pksato> no, sdcards can not damaged. Only filesystem are currupted.
[12:57] <pksato> sdcard have a write cicle life.
[12:58] <pksato> 10.000 to more that 1.000.000 cycles,
[12:58] <pksato> depending on the manufacturer
[12:58] <Xano> ShorTie: pksato I read at least one article that described physical problems after power outages that even low-level formats could not fix
[12:59] * snsei (~snsei@nv-76-0-234-12.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[13:03] <Xano> I wonder if power outages can really be a problem (SD card or not) if I hook it up to the tv, which I surely hope has its own decent PSU
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[13:07] <ShorTie> it very well does, but you will need some kind of signal from tv to rPi for proper shutdown of the rPi, powering off will, like pksato said, will corrupt the fill system
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[13:09] <pksato> super capacitor solve power outages. :)
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[13:11] <Xano> ShorTie: What kind of a signal would that be? As far as I've been able to see, there is no power off sequence for the Pi
[13:11] <Xano> Well, unless you mean that the OS just has to wrap things up before you can unplug
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[13:12] <ShorTie> 'shutdown now -h' or 'hualt' are the proper shutdown methods
[13:12] <sinni800> i sure wonder
[13:13] <sinni800> if there's anything out there to make your (linux system) poweroff proof
[13:13] <ShorTie> you would need a signal from the tv to a gpio pin that would triger a script to shut it down
[13:13] <gordonDrogon> sinni800, there are linux systems that are power-off proof..
[13:14] <sinni800> gordonDrogon: for the rpi, too?
[13:14] <sinni800> i mean
[13:14] <pksato> if is uding HDMI, and TV have CEC, can controle power and others from remote control.
[13:14] <sinni800> open sourc eis open source
[13:14] <gordonDrogon> if someone writes it, then yes..
[13:14] <Xano> ShorTie: I can check that, but otherwise I'll just hook it up to a power outlet. It's pretty stable here. I assume the data corruption problem is the same as with any other persistent storage solution, such as HDDs?
[13:14] <sinni800> heh..
[13:14] <sinni800> Xano: yeah.
[13:14] <sinni800> it's just as much of a problem as if you pull the plug on your tower pc
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[13:19] <Xano> I thought so. However, ShorTie mentioned damage (or was that just to the FS?), and some sources also mentioned physical damage. FUD, or truth?
[13:19] <Habbie> physical damage is pretty darn unlikely, that's for sure
[13:20] <Habbie> but the stories about FS damage on the Pi SD do not seem to be similar to HDD issues
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[13:20] <Habbie> modern filesystems can deal with people pulling plugs
[13:20] <sinni800> ha
[13:21] <sinni800> my ext3 couldnt deal with me not even pulling the plug before
[13:21] <sinni800> :D
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> It's not strictly 'physical' damage.
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[13:21] <sinni800> shut down properly, next tartup rescue console
[13:21] <Habbie> sinni800, then something was wrong
[13:21] <sinni800> startup
[13:21] <sinni800> :D
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> It is however pretty similar in effect.
[13:21] <sinni800> had to fsck
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> The SD becomes corrupt beyond its ability to internally cope with, and fails to 'boot'.
[13:21] <sinni800> i dismounted my boot and... fuck
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> It appears to be unreadable in every device.
[13:21] <sinni800> :D
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/169124-the-mysteriously-disappearing-drive-are-power-outages-killing-your-ssds
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> For example.
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> SSDs are likely to be better behaved in this respect than SDs.
[13:24] <Xano> Awesome :)
[13:25] <Xano> Several articles also recommended using USB storage for XBMC (the particular application I want to use the Pi for) over SD for speed improvements. Next to the SD card's and USB drive's read and write speeds, are there any other factors to take into account?
[13:25] * rymate1234 (~rymate@146.185.140.69) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> Warranty.
[13:26] <Xano> It's almost hard to believe the Pi does 1080p smoothly, but it has trouble with XBMC menus :P
[13:26] <Xano> SpeedEvil: Warranty of...?
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[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Xano: Warranty of the storage device :)
[13:29] <Habbie> Xano, 1080p goes via the awesome hardware, but the code for drawing menus via the same great hardware is closed
[13:29] <Xano> SpeedEvil: I'm not sure I get why that matters. Can you elaborate?
[13:30] <Xano> Habbie: Only H264 has hardware support, doesn't it?
[13:30] <Habbie> Xano, also vc-1
[13:30] <Habbie> Xano, and probably a few mpegs
[13:30] <Xano> Habbie: I know you can buy licences for MPEG2 and VC1 codecs, but those just enable the hardware support?
[13:31] <Habbie> Xano, correct
[13:31] <Xano> Habbie: Aaaah, interesting :)
[13:31] <Xano> I thought that was just software support
[13:31] <Xano> Thanks
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[13:39] <overrider> I build a webserver using rpi where i copy the webapplication from /app to /ramdisk/app, and serve it from there. I also use php apc to increase performance. Does this even make sense? The rational to copy from /app to /ramdisk/app on each boot was to conserve sdcard writes and increase performance, but not actually sure how much it will help.
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[13:40] <overrider> So if i leave /app where it is; do 'reads' wear out an sdcard in the same way that 'writes' do?
[13:40] <gordonDrogon> overrider, web server will (should) be reading most of the time. just don't keep logs if you don't want writes.
[13:40] <gordonDrogon> reading isn't an issue, it's only writing.
[13:41] <gordonDrogon> but then, it'll last a year or 2 anyway with a good quality SD card and they're cheap to replace.
[13:41] <Habbie> overrider, reads do not wear it out and reads will come from cache anyway
[13:41] <gordonDrogon> ie. don't put more effort into it than it costs to replace...
[13:41] <gordonDrogon> use a decent class 6 card
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[13:41] <gordonDrogon> aaaannnnddd relax :)
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[13:42] <overrider> Right :-)
[13:42] <overrider> I got those 'industrial' type sdcards that are quite expensive
[13:43] <overrider> Hopefully they are actually performing. No idea yet
[13:43] <gordonDrogon> I use sandisk ones.
[13:43] <gordonDrogon> class 6 has less latency than class 4 - I'm not sure c10's are worth it in a Pi.
[13:43] <Habbie> the important thing to remember is
[13:43] <Habbie> industrial or not
[13:43] <Habbie> it can and eventually will break
[13:43] <Habbie> so prepare for that
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: Not true - reads also wear flash. Less thanwrites - but they do.
[13:44] <gordonDrogon> SpeedEvil, really? Hm. Oh well, however...
[13:44] * gordonDrogon rmembers the days of core memory..
[13:44] * Dovid (~Dovid@ool-457f6ac5.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:44] <gordonDrogon> (when reading the core would destroy it, so it needed to be written back again!)
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[13:48] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:49] <Habbie> gordonDrogon, RAM still has that
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[13:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.co.in/patents/US6587378
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> Going into adding a second bit level to detect read decay
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> In practice, this is not used - it's simply read, and if the bit error rate intheblock exceeds a given factr, it'r rewritten
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[13:56] <gordonDrogon> intersting.
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[13:58] <gordonDrogon> Habbie, DRAM? Sure? I remember we replaced 128KW of mag. core with double DRAM in a PDP11 once - it effectively doubled its speed as the write-back wasn't needed... I've never designed a computer with modern DRAM or SRAM with a write-back circuit. (but I've never studied the internals of DRAM either)
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[13:59] <Habbie> gordonDrogon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM#Refresh_rate and the section above it, is what i'm thinking of
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[14:01] <gordonDrogon> ok, yes -that's somewhat different.
[14:01] <gordonDrogon> when you read a bit of core memory it resets it. reading dram is fine.
[14:01] * jalcine (~jacky@unaffiliated/webjadmin) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:01] <gordonDrogon> but if you don't read dram often enough it forgets :)
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[14:02] <Habbie> hehe
[14:02] <gordonDrogon> I once designed a test rig to test some dram modules a company I worked for was making - one of the things there were interested in was just how long you could leave the refresh...
[14:02] <Habbie> i bet
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[14:03] <gordonDrogon> you had to stall the cpu to do the refresh - which took away valuable cycles..
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[14:03] <Habbie> ye
[14:03] <gordonDrogon> at least they were valauable then!
[14:03] <Habbie> cycles? still are on the pi
[14:03] <Habbie> as long as X11 isn't accelerated
[14:04] <gordonDrogon> they were also intersted to know if it could be done purely in software - to save the hardware required..
[14:04] <gordonDrogon> 20+ years ago. 20MHz processors.
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[14:04] <Habbie> heh
[14:04] <gordonDrogon> actually, I've been doing some graphics on the Pi recently - using SDL and have been amazed at how fast it is - even without the GPU.
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[14:05] <gordonDrogon> the programs is manipulating some biggish sprites too - working in full HD mode.
[14:05] <gordonDrogon> it's not 30fps 3D rendering, but I'm still fairly amazed.
[14:05] <Habbie> Gcompris is my benchmark
[14:06] <gordonDrogon> as a "classic" 2D sprite type games platform it's pretty neat.
[14:06] <Habbie> i bet
[14:06] <gordonDrogon> all I need to do is re-write all those old games )-:
[14:06] <gordonDrogon> this is under BASIC too.
[14:07] <gordonDrogon> I feel a basic version of space invaders coming on.
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[14:19] <Kake_Fisk> Why do I use 5V 2A when 1,2A is max?
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: Err - reading DRAM is destructive - just like core.
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: It's simply that it's rewritten internally
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[14:42] <gordonDrogon> SpeedEvil, like I said - I've never looked at the internals. just accepted it as a little black box full of bits ;-)
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[14:43] <SpeedEvil> Fair enough.
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[14:44] <SpeedEvil> 99.9% of the time, if you know more than what the datasheet says, it may mislead you at times.
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> In most of electronics, the fact that the charge carriers are negatively charged is quite irrelevant.
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[15:40] <christo_m> has anyone experienced a super slow import with Rom Collection Browser on xbmc with the pi
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[16:35] <Nikon> woah
[16:36] <IT_Sean> ?
[16:36] <Nikon> big channel
[16:37] <senn> woah.
[16:37] <ozzzy> small computer big channel
[16:37] <ozzzy> there you go
[16:37] <Nikon> what ozzzy said\
[16:38] <senn> what does the fox say
[16:39] * Scriven (~nevirsc@S01060026f3c70320.vc.shawcable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:39] <IT_Sean> twss
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[16:47] <Nikon> so, the NOOBS
[16:48] <Nikon> it comes with ubuntu server as a option?
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[16:56] <sney> Nikon: no, ubuntu is not available for the pi
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[16:58] <Nikon> then a headless debian?
[16:58] <Triffid_Hunter> Nikon: raspbian
[16:59] <Nikon> Triffid_Hunter: now, i have to build my own packages because of the arm right?
[16:59] * fengshaun (~fengshaun@unaffiliated/fengshaun) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[16:59] <sney> if there's something you want that isn't already packaged, sure
[16:59] * Pitel_IPEX (~pitel@gatekeeper.bm.ipex.cz) Quit (Quit: (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻)
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[17:01] <Triffid_Hunter> Nikon: debian has had arm packages in their repos for years
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[17:02] <Nikon> they have?
[17:02] <Nikon> hmm
[17:02] <Nikon> insteresting
[17:02] <Nikon> blah
[17:02] <Nikon> sorry
[17:02] <Nikon> hands are shaky
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[17:03] <Triffid_Hunter> Nikon: I was playing with debian on embedded arm 5 years ago, and it had been around for years before that.. rpi is not the first arm to run linux you know :P
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[17:08] <Nikon> i didn't think it was popular enough to warrant the builds
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[17:51] <Baylink> Anyone have a recommendation for a wifi adapter? I'm looking for "can handle multiple SSIDs at the same time", 11a, and small, in that order of priority.
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[17:57] <Kane> morning
[17:58] <oldtopman> Morning.
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[18:20] * codebeaker (~leehamble@2a02:2028:f8:6b41:e003:b1f3:ce6c:cec3) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:20] <codebeaker> hi all
[18:21] * prophetx2 (~prophetx2@c-71-224-241-236.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:21] <codebeaker> I'm looking for a hint on where to go for upto date advice on cross-compiling C from a Mac for RaspberryPi, I know there's a hf/sf difference, which I don't really get (i need soft float, right?)
[18:24] <sney> you want hard float
[18:24] <sney> floating point calculations done in hardware, rather than software; software is slow
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[18:27] <Baylink> Are you compiling things large enough that compiling on-Pi is impractical?
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[18:29] <Baylink> codebeaker?
[18:29] <codebeaker> (sorry, window wasn't flashing)
[18:29] <codebeaker> erm, no - it's a trivial amount of code, but I hate working logged into a Pi
[18:30] * felipealmeida (~user@177.98.97.217) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:30] <codebeaker> it's a suite of three C tools, and their supporting sysv manifests, and in an ideal world, I'd test them by building the SD card image completely on my mac
[18:30] <codebeaker> and just dd'ing it over, and having it work
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[18:44] <gordonDrogon> compiling on the Pi isn't too bad.
[18:44] <gordonDrogon> assuming the project has things like a (c)makefile, etc.
[18:44] <codebeaker> yeah, it does gordonDrogon
[18:45] <codebeaker> the problem is that we sell these things, and I have one Pi that I use to work on
[18:45] <codebeaker> and then need to push like ~3/4 per week out, with the software installed, and they shouldn't have dev tools, etc
[18:45] <codebeaker> so ideally, I'd just work on my mac, and cross compile down tothe pi
[18:45] <codebeaker> but you are right, the workflow now isn't tooo bad
[18:45] <gordonDrogon> Pi's come with dev tools - but I presume you're not pushing out Pi's ...
[18:46] <codebeaker> actually they're trivial foot traffic sensors that count the ambient wifi noise, and use that as a measure of which parts of shopping centres are popular (without tracking individualpeople)
[18:46] <gordonDrogon> NFS mount the sources, compile on the Pi, build package, etc.
[18:46] <codebeaker> yeh, nsf mounts might be the right solution, really
[18:46] <gordonDrogon> it's just another unix box afterall ;-)
[18:46] <codebeaker> I suppose I could leave an fswatcher running, and have it compiled on file changes
[18:47] <codebeaker> at the moment I'm scp'ing stuff up, and compiling it over SSH
[18:47] <codebeaker> which has worked, so far
[18:47] * Bhaal (~bhaal@freenode/staff-emeritus/bhaal) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:47] <gordonDrogon> rsync...
[18:47] * aphadke (~Adium@2620:101:8003:200:34e7:1f1a:fba9:164e) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:47] <codebeaker> (yeah, it's like ~10 source files, scp -r doesn't take too long :))
[18:47] * Jeebiss (~Jeebiss@2602:306:bc31:5920:9dfb:5db3:5566:1fa4) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:47] <gordonDrogon> my big project is developed on my Linux desktop, I rsync to suck the sources to the Pi, then make on the Pi..
[18:48] * hepikkat_ (~hepikkat@95-91-250-138-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[18:48] <gordonDrogon> Hm. just broke the 20K lines of source code mark. 89 files and 21K lines of code...
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[18:53] <SpeedEvil> Your own work?
[18:54] <gordonDrogon> sure. my BASIC interpreter.
[18:54] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:54] * nils_2_ (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:54] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> Cutting edge languages FTW.
[18:55] <gordonDrogon> absolutely :)
[18:55] <gordonDrogon> it's quite a nice BASIC ..
[18:56] <gordonDrogon> runs really well on the Pi too. easy gpio access as a bonus feature :)
[18:56] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[18:59] * hepikkat (~hepikkat@95-91-250-138-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
[19:00] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Quit: kthxbai)
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[19:06] <codebeaker> I need to write something in the next few days to interface with the GPIO
[19:06] <codebeaker> never done anything like it before
[19:06] <codebeaker> at least the refernce code is in C
[19:06] <gordonDrogon> http://wiringpi.com/
[19:07] * Baylink (~jra@rrcs-24-129-180-186.se.biz.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[19:07] <gordonDrogon> easy access from C or shell.
[19:07] <gordonDrogon> with the disclaimer that I write & maintain it...
[19:07] <gordonDrogon> see also https://projects.drogon.net/
[19:08] <Gadget-Mac> Evening al
[19:08] <Gadget-Mac> +l
[19:08] <gordonDrogon> lots of examples, etc
[19:09] * lord4163 (~lord4163@81-232-61-81-no226.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:09] <Gadget-Mac> gordonDrogon: Did you get chance to look at that i2c A2D convertor I asked about ?
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[19:09] <gordonDrogon> Gadget-Mac, sorry - not yet )-: Been up to my ears in stuff I need to do to pay the mortgage off...
[19:10] <gordonDrogon> (and had all sorts of family stuff to do recently too)
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[19:10] <Gadget-Mac> Sure. Family always comes first
[19:10] * Gadget-Mac is finding this out himself.
[19:10] <gordonDrogon> well - mayby not mine anymore - or what's left of them.
[19:13] * wcchandler is now known as wcchandelier
[19:13] <Nefarious___> gordonDrogon: btw I sorted python 3.3 out for the rpi so the bot works on that :)
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[19:13] <gordonDrogon> Nefarious___, ok!
[19:13] <codebeaker> thanks gordonDrogon :)
[19:14] <gordonDrogon> codebeaker, shouldn't be hard to get into, but you know where I am ;-)
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[19:14] <codebeaker> roger that!
[19:15] <codebeaker> I really wish there was a stupid simple 4xRGB array I could mount into a plastic housing without too much stress
[19:15] <gordonDrogon> I'm building one on stripboard as part of a project I'll be publishing soon...
[19:15] <codebeaker> with rev.3 of my boxes we've finally eliminated all of the hot glue :-) so I'm not keen to go back
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[19:15] <gordonDrogon> but with 48 LEDs you need some multiplexing to get it to work on the Pi.
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[19:15] <codebeaker> :-D right
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[19:16] <gordonDrogon> I'll be able to get 8 colours out of mine, but nothing more on the Pi without some external PWM chip.
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[19:17] <gordonDrogon> codebeaker, don't be temted to get one of the 1-wire control LED chips - the timing is too tight to work reliably (or at all) on the Pi.
[19:18] <codebeaker> ah, this is a bit simpler, I just need a light when a service is up
[19:18] <gordonDrogon> and by 1-wire, I really mean "single wire", not Dallas 1-w bus type things...
[19:18] <codebeaker> and a light about hard disk free space
[19:18] <gordonDrogon> you could use the on-board LED - that's controllable. If you get wiringPi, looking at the "okLed.c" program in examples...
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[19:19] <codebeaker> thanks gordonDrogon, but the casing is pretty huge (covers all ports, it's a good 15x10cm, and totally enclosed)
[19:19] <codebeaker> so I need to break something out on ribbon cable or something form GPIO to show the status externally
[19:20] <gordonDrogon> yea, lots of options now from commercial to DIY.
[19:20] <gordonDrogon> it's relatively easy.
[19:21] <codebeaker> yeah, the hardwre side is tricky, with not having access to a laser cutter, or plastic welding kit, there's really no nice way to punch holes in a plastic box without making a damned mess
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[19:23] <gordonDrogon> drill for small holes - 2-part hole cutter for bigger ones.
[19:23] <gordonDrogon> pita for making more than a small number though.
[19:23] <codebeaker> that's fine if it's a round hole :_)
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[19:29] <gordonDrogon> there are some nice shaped punches avalable - but I suspect these days with laser cutters they're out of fashion.
[19:30] <codebeaker> yeah, definitely, but a laser cuttet at $1800 plus shipping (and dealing with customs) in Erope is a bit steep, when the project is still boot strapping
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[19:31] <gordonDrogon> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/493754441/round_and_square_knockout_hole_punches.html
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> things like that - I used them on sheet steel 25+ years back.
[19:32] <codebeaker> :) I guess they'd make a real mess of most plastics
[19:32] <gordonDrogon> you drill a hole then fix these either side and put a nut/bolt through and slowly tighten - makes a really clean cut.
[19:32] <codebeaker> I've been using one of these, http://media.digikey.com/photos/GC%20Electronics%20Photos/12-1806-0000.jpg but it's kinda inprecise
[19:32] <codebeaker> the "slowly turn the nut and bolt" is an intersting take
[19:32] <gordonDrogon> ah righ - sort of nibbler.
[19:33] <codebeaker> never thought of that, I figured it'd be "line everything up and leather it with a hammer" kinda idea
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[19:36] <gordonDrogon> it would jsut be a matter of getting a set the right size/shape for your application.
[19:36] <codebeaker> yeah, definitely :) although knowing my luck I'd get it wrong so often that a laser cutter would work out cheaper in the end :)
[19:37] <codebeaker> I tend to shy away from anything I can't dremel or nibble
[19:37] <codebeaker> so I might end up with something like http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bivar/PM3-PYD/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsUguuR3b6UZllXhGkAYWXEcxMp48P48EA%3d
[19:37] <codebeaker> which is a bit ugly, but the whole box is ugly :)
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> one of these days I'll treat myself to a dremel...
[19:37] <codebeaker> hehe, I managed to convince my partner that I needed one when we moved, to put nice neat cable holes in all the furniture
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> erm...
[19:38] <codebeaker> so we bough the top of the line one with all the routing accessories, and 200 heads, and the pillar drill, etc
[19:38] <GerhardSchr> hi
[19:38] <codebeaker> used it for about 5 minutes when we moved, and for EVERYTHING I EVER MESSED WITH in the cellar :)
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[19:49] <NovaXeros> Yo, any chance of a bit of advice? I'm trying to read an analog voltage back from a resistor ladder that I can't modify in any way. The ladder has 2 connections, ground, and the output wire, which I'm assuming will need a voltage divider on it in order to have my
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[19:50] <gordonDrogon> wern't you chatting about this last night?
[19:50] <gordonDrogon> if not- then someone was ;)
[19:50] <NovaXeros> ADC be able to read a voltage, however, the max resistance on the ladder is 3.7kohms, so I'd need a similar number for the other part of the divider.
[19:50] <NovaXeros> YES! It was me, gladd you remember, might make this easier.
[19:50] <gordonDrogon> ok - seems you have more information now.
[19:50] <NovaXeros> I've done some research on it all, and this is what I think will be the solution.
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[19:51] <theaftermath> So you are using an resistor ladder and a ADC?
[19:51] <gordonDrogon> stick one end of the ladder to 3.3v - the other end to the ADC input and also connect that to 0v via a 2.2K resistor.
[19:51] <awkwords> how do i share a folder on my mac to my rasbmc via nfs?
[19:51] <gordonDrogon> +3.3v <---- R1---R2---R3---R4---+ADC+---2.2K--- 0v
[19:52] <theaftermath> gordon's got it.
[19:53] <NovaXeros> That would be great Gordon, except the ladder only has 1 wire for me to access and tinker with. The other wire on the other side of the ladder is a shared ground with the LEDS in the controls unit, and is also inside the steering wheel, so I can't alter it. That's what I'm after right now, some advice on whether there even is a solution to that.
[19:53] <NovaXeros> IE
[19:54] <gordonDrogon> So... connect that to the ADC input and connect up the 0v on the ADC to the -ve on the car.
[19:54] <NovaXeros> 3.3v <---- 2.2k ----- +ADC+ ---- <LADDER> ---> GND
[19:54] <gordonDrogon> you ought to be able to measure the voltage that way - test with a multimeter.
[19:54] <gordonDrogon> don't use an external resistor - the car electronics alreadt has that.
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[19:54] <theaftermath> awkwords I think this is what you need http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1549?viewlocale=en_US
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> and be aware that it's probably connected to 12v ...
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> so check with a voltmeter.
[19:56] <pksato> NovaXeros: you need to be more descriptive on that you want, and that you have.
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[19:57] <theaftermath> for instance why are you using a resistor ladder instead of a fixed resistor when you can't use any of the outputs from the reisistor ladder?
[19:57] <gordonDrogon> theaftermath, cars are like that - lowers the number of wires from the steering wheel to the computer.
[19:58] <gordonDrogon> theaftermath, he's tapping into an existing circuit...
[19:58] <NovaXeros> pksato: Honestly, I'm trying, but with the little knowledge I have, it's really hard to get that across on a medium that really is just a multiplayer notepad. I'm considering drawing a bit of a wiring diagram, scanning it, then posting it to Deviantart or something daft to try and help.
[19:58] <theaftermath> ahhhhhh
[19:58] <awkwords> @theaftermath thats using AFP i want to use NFS
[19:58] <GerhardSchr> I would build a dashcam, which usb cam is good for these? and can I extend the usb cable of the cam?
[19:58] <gordonDrogon> NovaXeros, connect a multimter to the one wire and the car's 0v/-ve line - set it to volts and see what you get.
[19:59] <NovaXeros> And yeah, Gordon's got it, I'm tapping an already existing system, which is what's making this damn difficult, because I only have access to one wire, and I have virtually no idea what it does.
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[19:59] <NovaXeros> AHA! Yes, Gordon, I can actually say I've done that and the result is wierd.
[19:59] <NovaXeros> There are no volts.
[19:59] <NovaXeros> Literally, none.
[19:59] <gordonDrogon> was the ignition on?
[19:59] <pksato> Other day I asked to NovaXeros that is doing, and to put photo of the device.
[19:59] <NovaXeros> I've set the voltmeter to every setting, ignition on or off, stereo on or off (not that it's connected to that wire anyway)
[19:59] <pksato> Its is a simple resistos network connected to set of buttons.
[20:00] <NovaXeros> Litereally, no difference, but the multi meter in resistance mode can read the different resistances of the buttons as I press them.
[20:00] <NovaXeros> But no matter what's pressed or on, 0v
[20:00] <pksato> each switch connect some node of resistors to GND.
[20:00] <gordonDrogon> there is the possibility that it's a digital system - and the wire is normally at 0v ...
[20:01] <gordonDrogon> unlikely though as there would need to be a �C in the steering wheel.
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[20:01] <NovaXeros> Yeah, it seems like it's a set of resisters in series, with switches that 'short' the resistors to the common ground at different points in the series ladder.
[20:01] <pksato> To reduce wiring, most sound system use ADC to measure resistance.
[20:01] <NovaXeros> So actually, ladder may not be the most accurate description.
[20:02] <NovaXeros> And it's definitely analog. I've researched the model enough to know that it uses the old analog system, before they introduced shit like CANBUS
[20:02] <pksato> 3v3 -> 2k2 ->(ADC)<- leader of resistors -> GND
[20:03] <gordonDrogon> NovaXeros, check channel language policy please..
[20:03] <NovaXeros> Oh, sorry, my bad.
[20:03] <NovaXeros> Got a bit carried away
[20:03] <gordonDrogon> ok
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[20:03] <NovaXeros> so pksato, here's a bit of a further question from your suggestion mate.
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[20:04] <NovaXeros> The ADC is an MCP3008, quite a basic SPI one. if I'm using 3.3v and 2.2k resistance, will there be enough current left in the system to actually run the ADC's internals? Or would 2.2k be too high resistance?
[20:04] <NovaXeros> In which case, would I not need an amp somewhere then to use that divider system?
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[20:05] <gordonDrogon> the inputs work on voltage not current.
[20:05] <theaftermath> 12v/2.2K = 5ma
[20:05] <NovaXeros> we'd be working with 3.3v, aftermath. The ADC would unlikely take 12v.
[20:05] <NovaXeros> It's operational zone, IIRC, was 2.7v to 5v
[20:05] <NovaXeros> give or take
[20:06] <theaftermath> oh right and like gordon said its an input so current isn't the issue
[20:06] <NovaXeros> Excellent.
[20:06] <theaftermath> if it sunk 5ma on an input I'd be a little worried actually.
[20:06] <NovaXeros> so you think 2.2k ish for the 3.7k that is the ladder itself?
[20:06] <gordonDrogon> but the first stage is making a multimeter read the current voltage - if you can't do that, then you'll not read it from the Pi..
[20:07] <gordonDrogon> how did you measure the resistance?
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[20:07] <gordonDrogon> is it possible the end you're looking at is already connected to the car's -ve supply?
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[20:08] <pksato> on adc, without and button pressd, can read 2.07V.
[20:08] <NovaXeros> Multimeter, +ve on the control wire, and -ve on a ground wire. 0v back from the ladder (expected, really, considering the ladder has no voltage input anywhere, just a ground on the other side of the system)
[20:08] <NovaXeros> pretty sure, gordon. It's 1 wire from the steering wheel construct right to the back of the stereo.
[20:09] <pksato> "steering wheel" whats is confusing all.
[20:09] <theaftermath> might I ask what exactly you want to do with the information from the ADC?
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[20:09] <gordonDrogon> there needs to be at least one other wire going into the steering wheel...
[20:10] <gordonDrogon> ah - maybe not. if the steering wheel is itself connected to 0v, then it's the other way round.
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> Be careful screwing with wires in a steering wheel. They can blow your head clean off.
[20:10] <gordonDrogon> so you need to measure the voltage relative to the car's +ve supply.
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[20:11] <NovaXeros> @theaftermath to begin with, the pi will be running a python script that listens to the ADC, and depending on the value it gets back, issues a JSON command to an LMS media server running on the pi to skip tracks or pause.
[20:11] <theaftermath> sounds fun!
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[20:12] <NovaXeros> All this is more or less just a side project to keep the missus away and give me something to destroy. I'm aware that neither ADC nor Python nor any of this is ideal, but this has been a challenge if nothing else.
[20:12] <theaftermath> I would agree there are probably easier ways to do this.
[20:12] <NovaXeros> @gordon, how do you mean?
[20:13] <gordonDrogon> pondering... connect voltmeter between wire and cars +12v supply. push buttons.
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[20:14] <gordonDrogon> although voltmeter between wire and car body ought to still read something.
[20:14] <NovaXeros> That would probably work, but we'd still be in the same situation.
[20:15] <gordonDrogon> right now you just need to read a voltage - any voltage - just see if you can read one :)
[20:15] <NovaXeros> [Wire that I have access to]--------->[Buttons and ladder that I don't have access to]------>[GND that I don't have access to]
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[20:16] <gordonDrogon> you have access to Gnd - it's the car body.
[20:16] <gordonDrogon> usually connected to the -ve terminal of the battery.
[20:16] <NovaXeros> Wire that I have access to, when multi-meter'd gives the resistances of the buttons, but no voltage. There's nothing feeding any power into the circuit with the buttons, no matter what I do.
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[20:16] <gordonDrogon> except is really old UK cars which were the other way round )-:
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[20:17] <NovaXeros> And yeah, I have access to the GND, but I meant I don't have access to the wire that takes the GND from the buttons to the -ve
[20:17] <NovaXeros> well my car's old but I don't think it's THAT old.
[20:17] <gordonDrogon> Gnd is -ve.
[20:17] <NovaXeros> Yeah, I'm referring to the -ve terminal on the battery
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[20:18] <NovaXeros> If it helps any, it's a 2001 Astra G. Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, depending on where you're from.
[20:18] <NovaXeros> Just in case anyone in here has any experience with the steering wheel control wiring on that model.
[20:19] <NovaXeros> Brb 2 mins, gotta pick up the missus from work. Will see if Maplin is open, maybe pick up a 2.2k resistor for some basic tinkering later.
[20:19] <NovaXeros> Brb
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[20:19] <gordonDrogon> it's unlikely to work though - now you gave more infor.
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[20:20] <gordonDrogon> you'll likely upset the balance if there is something already using it.
[20:20] <gordonDrogon> if there isn't and you can't read any voltage, it's not going to help.
[20:21] <pksato> NovaXeros: you have some like it http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7103/f4oq.png
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[20:21] <pksato> Need to add RX and 3v3. and TP1 to adc input.
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[20:43] <grantsmith> why are there two 3.3v pins and two 5v pins ?
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[20:43] <gordonDrogon> why not...
[20:43] <grantsmith> they are identical ?
[20:43] <gordonDrogon> yes.
[20:43] <grantsmith> cool thanks
[20:44] <gordonDrogon> the 5 Gnd/0v pins are identical too.
[20:44] <gordonDrogon> On the Rev 1 Pi's they were marked as "don't use", but they didn't find a use for them on the Rev 2's to published their use...
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[20:48] <NovaXeros> Right. I'm back, 2.2k resistor in tow. Gonna breadboard this baby up then give it a whirl
[20:50] <pksato> NovaXeros: you want to use this device out of original circuit, right?
[20:50] <NovaXeros> how do you mean?
[20:50] <NovaXeros> like, without modifying the resistor ladder circuit?
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[20:51] <pksato> no. where is connected originally.
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[20:52] <NovaXeros> Ah, yeah. Well, more or less. I'll have to extend the wire a bit, but the adc will more or less connect directly onto the wire that feeds back from the steering column
[20:53] <pksato> Its are part of car entertainment/Sound system?
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[20:54] <NovaXeros> more a part of the car than the sound system. The sound system that's in there now can't and doesn't use it, but the actual buttons and wiring are all there from the old stereo that does (the stock one)
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[20:55] <pksato> You replacing car sound system?
[20:56] <pksato> try to answer with yes or no. :)
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[20:56] <NovaXeros> no
[20:56] <pksato> Theses wires still connected to original sound system?
[20:57] <NovaXeros> nope
[20:57] <NovaXeros> :3
[20:57] <pksato> Now, goes only to adc and RPi?
[20:57] <NovaXeros> yep
[20:57] <pksato> ok.
[20:58] <pksato> you have some like it, http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7103/f4oq.png
[20:59] <NovaXeros> yes, but no tp2
[20:59] <pksato> need to add RX and 3v3. (or other voltage)
[20:59] <pksato> and, TP1 goes to ADC.
[20:59] <pksato> its only for reference.
[20:59] <NovaXeros> yeah
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[21:00] <NovaXeros> setting that up now. Fingers crossed.
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[21:01] <pksato> is you but voltameter on TP1 to TP2, can read 2.07V or near.
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[21:01] <pksato> put voltameter
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[21:34] <NovaXeros> right
[21:34] <NovaXeros> so
[21:34] <NovaXeros> you guys are total geniuses
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[21:34] * pth (~pth@ip-5-147-140-189.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:35] <NovaXeros> and I seriously hope you all work in electronics or somethign that uses that collective genius for the greater good, because how you all managed to figure out how to make this work is entirely beyond me.
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> The Pi is entirely closed hardware.
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> None of the hardware design was done by the community.
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[21:38] <NovaXeros> Working on the pi or not, the people in this chat room who managed to make sense of my incoherent descriptions of a poorly designed stereo control circuit, they need to be doing something with their knowledge. I'm massively impressed.
[21:38] <NovaXeros> It worked a treat.
[21:38] <NovaXeros> Mildly inconsistent readings back from the ADC, but I think that isn't helped by the breadboard I'm using. It gives inconsistent readings when it's on there all the time.
[21:39] <NovaXeros> Not sure what to do about that.
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[21:39] <NovaXeros> Also, looking at the ranges the ADC reports when I push a button, I may want to look into the MCP3008's bigger brother for more resolution.
[21:39] <NovaXeros> not sure where I'd source one though
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[21:46] <NovaXeros_> @pksato: That circuit you posted earlier, http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7103/f4oq.png is there a name for that type of circuit in particular, or does that class as a resistor ladder? For future reference.
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[22:08] <NovaXeros_> Right, here's a question then, perhaps this one's up your alley @gordonDrogon
[22:08] <NovaXeros_> Without specialist equipment, or anything that will break the bank as it were, what is the best way of making a more permanent circuit housing for the ADC to interface with the pi and the steering wheel controls?
[22:09] <NovaXeros_> Obviously the perfect method would be some kind of printed PCB, but I've not a clue how those are done, and have no machinery with which to do that.
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[22:12] <debenham> making a custom PCB doesn't have to cost too much.
[22:12] <debenham> You can get kits to do it for about $40 at jaycar in .au (probably similar things overseas as well)
[22:12] <debenham> All that is needed is a blank board, a suitable marker pen, some acid and a shallow tray
[22:15] <pksato> single side PCB is easy to make.
[22:17] <NovaXeros_> just looking at making PCBs now. I never thought it'd quite be so easy. This is awesome.
[22:18] <pksato> one of my ugly home made pcb http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/824/rpigpiobreadxyz02.jpg
[22:19] <NovaXeros_> sorry mate, but that looks amazing to me. You should've seen my circuit earlier when it was more-or-less blue-tacked onto an experiment board.
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[22:19] <taza> For obvious reasons, test and iterate until you know you've got the design down.
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[22:20] <debenham> If you want even easier (but not quite as 'tidy') you can always use a protoboard
[22:21] <pksato> or use a 'universal' board http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6397/pcbad9850ch.jpg
[22:21] <NovaXeros_> Currently using breadboard atm. It seems to cause a lot of innacuracy and feedback in my ADC, and whilst I'm not too fussed about 'tidy', I am quite concerned about space and accuracy.
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[22:22] <NovaXeros_> Accuracy isn't too bad, tbh. It's not like I'm using the ADC to report readings from a temp sensor. But if I tell my python script that a signal between 100-140 means track forwards, I need to do everything I can to ensure that I only ever get 100-140 signals when I push the forward button.
[22:23] <pksato> NovaXeros_: ADC aways read some noise.
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[22:24] <NovaXeros_> Yep, which is why I want to make sure that the noise it reads is as reduced as possible. Still debating whether or not to go for the 3208 instead of the 3008.
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[22:53] <f00bar80> can i control a remote control through the GPIO using python code ?
[22:56] <NovaXeros_> Goodnight everyone. Thanks for the help today and yesterday. I'm sure I'll be back for more before long ;D
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[23:12] <GLaDOSv2> Hey all, is there a way to specify to noobs what OS to boot before rebooting? (in order to not have to use the keyboard)
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[23:57] * Phase (~Phase@unaffiliated/phase) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:57] * aphadke (~Adium@2620:101:8003:200:34e7:1f1a:fba9:164e) has left #raspberrypi
[23:58] * Jeebiss (~Jeebiss@2602:306:bc31:5920:c192:99fd:d146:9bc7) has joined #raspberrypi

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.