#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2014-01-08

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * T19EL (~T19EL@timcinel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:01] * bigx (~bigx@cam44-2-82-235-243-114.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[0:04] * _cheney (~cheney@nat.sierrabravo.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[0:49] * darkbasic_ (~quassel@host37-245-static.119-2-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:53] * jbaanus (~jbaanus@143.112.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:54] * Orion___ (~Orion_@205.118.211.29) Quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
[0:58] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:59] * `|` (5e0b314b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.11.49.75) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * jbaanus (~jbaanus@143.112.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:59] <`|`> is config.txt meant to be 4 lines of long notepad document?
[0:59] * ponA (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-095-208-008-139.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:00] <pksato> dont use notepad to edit config.txt, try wordpad(?).
[1:00] <`|`> much better thank you
[1:01] <`|`> if i'm having a green tint with hdmi, what do i need to edit/add
[1:01] <pksato> hdmi boost
[1:01] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:01] <`|`> # Force HDMI even if unplugged or powered off # hdmi_force_hotplug=1
[1:01] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-74-71-49-75.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: jorge_lo)
[1:01] <`|`> there is no hdmi boost.
[1:01] * crumb (crumb@gateway/shell/cadoth.net/x-sqqiyeavqbwcbvwb) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] <crumb> hey, do i need to purchase a license to play flv1 codecs?
[1:02] * taza (~zap@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[1:02] <shiftplusone> pretty sure flv is a container
[1:03] <pksato> http://elinux.org/RPiconfig
[1:03] <`|`> Do i add the line in?
[1:04] * MrVector (~Vector@host109-153-79-255.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:04] <shiftplusone> crumb, it will depend on the flv, but I only see H264, which doesn't require an additional codec and some other formats for which there are no codecs available anyway. I am pretty sure the pi will handle those fine as well, as long as you use omx.
[1:04] * MrVector (~Vector@host86-159-88-244.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] <shiftplusone> but "it depends"
[1:05] <crumb> it's just old school flv1 (flash video) codec
[1:05] <crumb> before flash player implemented h.264
[1:05] * `|` (5e0b314b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.11.49.75) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[1:05] <hybr1d8> flv1 is a codec - but there is no hardware decode for it on the pi
[1:05] <hybr1d8> It will need to be decoded in software
[1:06] <hybr1d8> which should be fine as long as not HD
[1:06] <crumb> so why doesn't it
[1:06] <crumb> yeah, it's not hd
[1:06] <shiftplusone> What are you using to play it?
[1:06] <crumb> openelec
[1:06] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:06] <shiftplusone> And it's slow or you don't get any output at all?
[1:06] <crumb> i just get audio
[1:06] * delcoyote (~delcoyote@unaffiliated/delcoyote) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:07] <linuxstb> AFAIK xbmc on the Pi doesn't do any software video decoding - if the GPU doesn't support it, it's not played.
[1:07] * Viper-7 (~viper7@ppp121-44-71-201.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] <shiftplusone> have you tried using omxplayer directly?
[1:07] <linuxstb> Same with omxplayer...
[1:07] <crumb> man, that bites
[1:07] <hybr1d8> openelec is using xbmc to play videos - perhaps the xbmc build doesn't have flv1 support
[1:07] <shiftplusone> linuxstb, nuh, not true.
[1:08] <linuxstb> shiftplusone: Really? When did that change?
[1:08] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:08] <shiftplusone> I don't recall that being the case at all. I'll double check later, I doubt that every file I have ever played on the pi has been h.264.
[1:08] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:08] <hybr1d8> It's always used SW decode for stuff that there is no HW decode - it is just a *lot* slower and so many things don't work well
[1:09] <shiftplusone> ^ yeah that's what I have always 'known'
[1:09] <rikkib> Wonder where I find a radar speed measuring module...
[1:09] <rikkib> Or Laser
[1:10] <linuxstb> hybr1d8: You're talking about xbmc or omxplayer, or both?
[1:10] <hybr1d8> xbmc
[1:11] <hybr1d8> not sure on omxplayer
[1:12] <shiftplusone> linuxstb, where did you get that idea though? Something you've read somewhere or something you have concluded based on bad luck with some files?
[1:12] <pksato> rikkib: http://www.eodevices.com/main_erc_2kit_frameset.htm
[1:13] <rikkib> cheers
[1:13] <linuxstb> shiftplusone: From everything I've read about omxplayer/xbmc, and from looking at the source to omxplayer. I've just always thought it was a hardware-only player.
[1:14] <Sudsey> dude, I love flv
[1:14] <Sudsey> it's my favourite codec
[1:14] <shiftplusone> O_o
[1:14] <shiftplusone> hm
[1:15] <Sudsey> > good quality, space efficient
[1:15] <Sudsey> also has cool name
[1:15] <Sudsey> and then I think ogg is everyone's favourite audio codec
[1:15] <pksato> rikkib: or http://www.hokuyo-aut.jp/02sensor/07scanner/urg_04lx_ug01.html
[1:15] <chithead> ogg is just a container format
[1:16] <linuxstb> shiftplusone, hybr1d8: (sorry for the google cache link, wiki.xbmc.org seems down) - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Y4fcwlZNgk8J:wiki.xbmc.org/%3Ftitle%3DRaspberry_Pi/FAQ&client=firefox-a&hl=en&gl=uk&strip=1 - see the answer to 1.4
[1:16] <crumb> are the license keys generated manually or something?
[1:17] <shiftplusone> crumb, by a badly written script which needs manual intervention too often.
[1:17] * pirea (~pirea@188.25.67.193) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:17] <pirea> hy
[1:17] <pirea> i have a problem
[1:17] <crumb> ugh
[1:17] <shiftplusone> doesn't cope well with people entering stuff other than their serial numbers
[1:17] <pksato> WiiDAR http://letsmakerobots.com/node/24259
[1:17] <pirea> my rpi have 2 bogomips
[1:17] <crumb> maybe they should ask someone to help them sanitize input
[1:17] <pirea> why?
[1:18] <crumb> pirea: you're the winner
[1:18] <pirea> why?
[1:18] <pirea> what means that?
[1:18] <shiftplusone> linuxstb, that faq doesn't really say that it doesn't play other files... just says that it supports those. Anyway.... something to experiment with later.
[1:19] <pirea> crumb that means my cpu is damaged?
[1:19] * e-Flex (~e-Flex@h-194-173.a357.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:20] * felipealmeida (~user@177.205.168.182.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:20] <shiftplusone> crumb, they didn't write the script, it's some third party thing.
[1:20] <crumb> oh
[1:20] <crumb> pirea: no
[1:20] <pirea> but?
[1:20] <pksato> bogomips > _bogus_ mips
[1:20] <shiftplusone> pirea, what's the "problem" ?
[1:21] <pirea> shiftplusone my rpi have 2 bogomips
[1:21] <shiftplusone> yeah, but what's the problem?
[1:21] <pirea> bogomips not must be 697?
[1:21] <shiftplusone> nope
[1:22] <linuxstb> shiftplusone: I guess that's true, but I've also never read anyone say that it tries to do software decoding. Of course, happy to be proved wrong ;)
[1:22] <pirea> what means lower bogomips?
[1:22] <shiftplusone> pirea, absolutely nothing.
[1:23] <plugwash> iirc it means they changed how delays were handled in the kernel
[1:23] <shiftplusone> pirea, you might be interested in running vcgencmd measure_clock arm
[1:23] <plugwash> so the calibration factor (which is what bogomips really is) changed
[1:23] <pirea> shiftplusone will be again 697?
[1:23] <shiftplusone> no
[1:23] <pksato> pirea: why 697?
[1:24] <plugwash> http://www.raspbian.org/munin/bytemark/raspbian.org/diskstats_utilization-day.png <-- the difference a battery can make
[1:24] <shiftplusone> battery?
[1:24] <pirea> because that is the value of the cpu :)
[1:24] <pirea> when is not overclocked
[1:24] <plugwash> shiftplusone, raid controller cache battery to be specific
[1:25] <shiftplusone> ah
[1:25] <shiftplusone> pirea, why do you think that bogomips must mean something?
[1:25] <pksato> bogomips depend of kernel version.
[1:26] <pirea> pksato really?
[1:26] <shiftplusone> pirea, to be 100% clear. Your CPU frequency and the 'bogomips' you get... are not related in the way you seem to think they are.
[1:26] <pksato> Its a only internal kernel magic number.
[1:26] * double-you (~Miranda@188-193-36-153-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: ja)
[1:27] <pksato> is do noting about speed of hw.
[1:27] <shiftplusone> If you use a kernel that gives you 1 billion bogomips, it doesn't mean your CPU will run 1t that clock rate.
[1:27] <shiftplusone> *at
[1:27] <plugwash> well it would be very unusual for bogomips to be higher than clock rate....
[1:27] <pirea> shiftplusone oooooooookey
[1:27] <pirea> tnxt
[1:27] <pirea> tnx
[1:28] <shiftplusone> plugwash, well yeah, you would need to edit the function which calculates it to return that... I was just making a point, heh.
[1:28] <pksato> but, that is yours rpi actual bogomips? and kernel version?
[1:28] * Datalink (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:28] <plugwash> basically bogomips is a timing calibration factor, so IF the kernel uses CPU cycles for timing loops then it will be of the same order of magnitude as CPU clock speed
[1:29] <plugwash> OTOH if the kernel doesn't use CPU cycles for timing loops and instead uses some other timer then it can be much lower, that seems to be the case for recent Pi kernels.
[1:30] <pirea> i will try an older kernel
[1:31] <shiftplusone> for moar bogomips hax?
[1:31] <pksato> boot my pi to see her bogomips...
[1:32] <shiftplusone> (it's 2 here as well)
[1:32] <shiftplusone> running the 3.10 non-foundation raspbian kernel
[1:32] * m8 (~m@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[1:34] <rikkib> Rpi have two speeds haven't they? Real slow and off. :O
[1:34] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:35] <pksato> BogoMIPS : 2.00 on Linux raspberrypi 3.10.24+ #614 PREEMPT Thu Dec 19 20:38:42 GMT 2013 armv6l GNU/Linux
[1:35] <pksato> dmesg | grep -i bogo
[1:35] <pksato> [ 0.001160] Calibrating delay loop (skipped), value calculated using timer frequency.. 2.00 BogoMIPS (lpj=10000)
[1:37] <rikkib> 4800 bogomips for my x86 linux box
[1:37] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:37] <shiftplusone> If we're counting the desktop... 5999.96
[1:38] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:38] <pksato> 5399.65
[1:38] <shiftplusone> I think I win.
[1:38] <rikkib> ahhh all beat my old machine... Drats
[1:39] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] * shiftplusone has just discovered the magic of ssh port tunnelling >.>
[1:39] <rikkib> x11
[1:39] <plugwash> have you found the magic of the -D option yet?
[1:40] <shiftplusone> no sir
[1:40] <shiftplusone> reading the manpage now
[1:41] <shiftplusone> Ah yeah, I knew you could do that, but I don't have much use for it.
[1:41] * dreamreal (~jottinge@redhat/dreamreal) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:41] <plugwash> It's mostly useful for accessing websites that aren't accessible to the general public but are accessible to machines you have a ssh account on
[1:41] <plugwash> especially when combined with a tool like foxyproxy
[1:42] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@202.92.67.179) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:42] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@202.92.67.179) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:42] <shiftplusone> I suppose I could use it to get around region locking, since I have a VPS in the US.
[1:43] * MrVector (~Vector@host86-159-88-244.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:43] <shiftplusone> *blocking
[1:44] <pksato> BogoMIPS : 464.48 on Linux raspberrypi 3.6.11+ #371 PREEMPT Thu Feb 7 16:31:35 GMT 2013 armv6l GNU/Linux
[1:44] <pksato> [ 0.001008] Calibrating delay loop... 464.48 BogoMIPS (lpj=2322432)
[1:44] * imRance (~Rance@220.165.185.191) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:44] <shiftplusone> So you can increase your performance by a factor of 230 simply by downgrading the kernel!
[1:45] <pksato> and overclock
[1:48] * edjuh (ed@shell.maze.io) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:48] <pksato> no overclock, but config.txt have arm_freq=950, and vcgencmd measure_clock arm show 700MHz
[1:50] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:51] * owen_ (~owen@180.200.152.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] <[Saint]> Total of 8 processors activated (32477.32 BogoMIPS)
[1:54] <[Saint]> ...am I the BogoKing?
[1:55] <rikkib> Last login: Sat Nov 9 18:47:26 2013 from 192.168.44.1
[1:55] <SirLagz> I'm sure i can beat that...it's not my hardware though lol
[1:55] <shiftplusone> too late
[1:55] <[Saint]> I gots Bogothingies coming out the wazoo.
[1:55] <pirea> exit
[1:55] * pirea (~pirea@188.25.67.193) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[1:56] <rikkib> haha
[1:58] <pksato> http://www.robotshop.com/blog/en/neato-xv-11-lidar-hacked-3692
[1:59] * Junkratt (~Junkratt@c-71-231-212-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:00] <shiftplusone> plugwash, oh, by the way.... might be worth setting some folks straight here http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=65167
[2:02] * sinni801 (~hurpurdur@178.21.19.214) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:02] * Hydra (~Hydra@46-65-54-87.zone16.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.)
[2:06] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:08] * MrVector (~Vector@host86-140-227-129.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:09] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:10] * S0-2 (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:10] <plugwash> shiftplusone, message posted
[2:10] * salmon_ (~salmon_@pc1-79.jsn.osi.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[2:10] <rikkib> Interesting... Robovac
[2:10] * hyperair (hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:11] <shiftplusone> plugwash, looks good
[2:13] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:14] <rikkib> Drum practice
[2:14] <rikkib> 260w in a 6x9 steel garage
[2:15] * hyperair (hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:16] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[2:18] * S0-2 (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:18] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-24-193-127-172.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:20] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:21] * mrkurtz (mrkurtz@cpe-76-183-112-224.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:22] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p4237-ipbf1805souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:22] <Sudsey> #vsftpd is still asleep
[2:23] <amigojapan> hi
[2:23] <Sudsey> there's no way I'm going to be able to suss out these configs on my own haha
[2:23] <Sudsey> ohai
[2:23] <shiftplusone> Sudsey, gone through https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Very_Secure_FTP_Daemon ?
[2:24] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:24] <amigojapan> Sudsey: do you really need FTP, why not just use SFTP? which is already aprt of openSSH
[2:24] <amigojapan> part of*
[2:24] <shiftplusone> amigojapan, we're already tried to talk sense into him.
[2:24] <Sudsey> I don't really like sftp, I'd much rather something a little more configurable and convenient
[2:24] <amigojapan> ok shiftplusone
[2:24] <Sudsey> sftp needs to have pageant running and the like to provide keys
[2:25] <amigojapan> Sudsey: it does not
[2:25] <shiftplusone> keys are optional
[2:25] <Sudsey> I'd prefer it to just be a server that I can piddle files off and onto from filezilla on a usb stick or something
[2:25] <Sudsey> I know, but I'm using keys
[2:25] <Sudsey> for the ssh
[2:25] <amigojapan> ok
[2:25] * hyperair (hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:26] <Gorroth> Kernel[Linux grim-pi-tv 3.6.11+] CPU[ARMv6-compatible 698 MHz] MemFree(M)[10/438] DiskFree(G)[1218/1389] Uptime[118 days 19 hours 4 minutes] Users[1] LoadAvg[0.26]
[2:26] <Sudsey> I'd also like to set up a system for anons to be able to connect and download small things I'm working on
[2:26] <Sudsey> none of those are really possible with sftp, as far as I know
[2:26] <Gorroth> git
[2:26] <amigojapan> Sudsey: make an anonymous user?
[2:26] <Sudsey> yeah, but they'd still need keys
[2:27] <Sudsey> as far as I know
[2:27] <Gorroth> run a gitserver maybe
[2:27] <amigojapan> no they would not Sudsey , it is optional
[2:27] <Gorroth> hmm, yeah. you could setup a user with a gitshell so they can't login, but they can still use git
[2:27] <Sudsey> not just source code, other things that might not involve it
[2:27] <Sudsey> like sound files
[2:27] <Gorroth> hmm
[2:28] <Gorroth> i wonder how dreamhost makes sftp-only users
[2:28] <amigojapan> Sudsey: set up apache
[2:28] <Sudsey> I do use sftp for quickly getting around the filesystem, though
[2:28] <Sudsey> it's a lot easier than doing it via bash
[2:28] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:28] <Sudsey> don't need a webserver, though
[2:28] <Gorroth> https://gist.github.com/joshellington/2224420
[2:29] * Noodlewitt (~Noodlewit@r49-3-0-137.cpe.vividwireless.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:29] <Sudsey> I suppose
[2:29] <amigojapan> Sudsey: if you want anonymous people to download files, it seems you would want a webserver
[2:29] <Gorroth> you could also setup no password and setup that group's config in sshd_config so that it doesn't require kesy
[2:29] <Gorroth> you suppose? that's what you were asking for
[2:29] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:30] <Sudsey> a webserver's a little more heavyweight, though
[2:31] <Sudsey> and I'd also like to set up a virtual user with a password that has full r/w permissions and access to a folder usually hidden to anons
[2:31] <amigojapan> ok, that sounds like a job for SFTP
[2:32] <Sudsey> hmm
[2:33] <Gorroth> yup
[2:33] <Gorroth> same procedure as i gave above, except set a passwd
[2:33] <Sudsey> okay, could I do the following with sftp
[2:33] <Sudsey> only two accounts can access the ftp server, anon and admin
[2:33] <Sudsey> neither can navigate outside, say, the /ftp/ directory
[2:34] <amigojapan> yes Sudsey , it is just a matter of working with permissions and groups
[2:34] <Sudsey> anon is passwordless and admin is passworded, anon can only download at 10KBps and from every directory except /ftp/private/, which they can't see or access
[2:34] <Sudsey> admin has unlimited r/w and also has access to the private directory
[2:34] * solitz (~Solitz@c-98-240-136-186.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:34] <Sudsey> can that be done
[2:34] <Sudsey> while using keys for ssh
[2:34] <amigojapan> Sudsey: let me check about the passwordless part, one sec
[2:35] <Sudsey> righto, thanks
[2:35] <Sudsey> I honestly wouldn't have a clue where to look, being the linux noob that I am xD
[2:35] * crumb (crumb@gateway/shell/cadoth.net/x-sqqiyeavqbwcbvwb) has left #raspberrypi
[2:36] <Sudsey> oh, by the way, admin is a virtual user
[2:36] <Sudsey> did I already say that?
[2:36] <amigojapan> Sudsey: what do you mean by virtual?
[2:37] <Sudsey> it's not an actual user on the OS, it's a virtual user that only exists inside the FTP server
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[2:40] <amigojapan> Sudsey: apparently it si possible, but you need to make a chroot, which would be more complicated than just starting a regular ftp deamon....
[2:41] <Sudsey> yeah, I figured
[2:41] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:41] <amigojapan> Sudsey: there are also lightweight webservers
[2:41] <Sudsey> it'd probably be easier on a proper ftp server
[2:42] <Sudsey> yeah, I don't really need a webserver anyway, though
[2:42] <shiftplusone> Sudsey, in all of this time trying to get help with vsftpd and justifying your life choices, you could've figured out the configuration for it ;)
[2:42] <amigojapan> Sudsey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_lightweight_web_servers
[2:42] <Sudsey> if I end up needing one then I will switch the ftp to it to save overhead
[2:42] * jbaanus (~jbaanus@143.112.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:42] <Sudsey> shiftplusone: haha, I've been trying to suss out the configs for days and I still have no idea what I'm doing xD
[2:43] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-24-193-127-172.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: jorge_lo)
[2:43] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:43] <Sudsey> I've been refraining from sending chris of the land of vsftpd an email about it because according to the website he's really really busy
[2:43] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:44] <amigojapan> Sudsey: I wonder if a lightweight webserver really has so much overhead as you think
[2:44] * owen_ (~owen@180.200.152.222) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[2:44] <amigojapan> Sudsey: here is what I am thinking.... use the lightweight webserver for the anonynmous files..... and use SFTP for the admin user
[2:44] <Sudsey> I get what you're saying, but I don't really see any point to getting a webserver, even if it is lightweight, if all I'm going to be using it for is ftp
[2:45] <Sudsey> and it's not really like linking people to them from forums and stuff to download, it's a place for my friends and I to piddle files to and from
[2:45] * owen_ (~owen@180.200.152.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:45] <Sudsey> you can access ftp from a browser regardless, so you wouldn't even need an ftp client
[2:46] <amigojapan> well then set up an ftp server Sudsey
[2:46] <Sudsey> :I
[2:46] <Sudsey> ...
[2:46] <Sudsey> xD
[2:46] <Sudsey> I think I will go email teh chris
[2:46] <Sudsey> hope he has time
[2:46] <Sudsey> otherwise I'll try to get someone on #vsftpd or just god forbid try to work it out himself xD
[2:47] * jbaanus (~jbaanus@143.112.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[2:48] <amigojapan> shiftplusone: I think he is just one of those people that is not flexible
[2:48] <shiftplusone> I am too, so I get it, heh.
[2:48] <amigojapan> also seems to be a help vampire
[2:49] <Sudsey> I'm still here xD
[2:49] <shiftplusone> Haven't heard that term before.
[2:49] <Sudsey> I would do it on my own if I had any idea what I was doing haha
[2:49] <Sudsey> I suppose you have to start somewhere
[2:49] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:50] <amigojapan> shiftplusone: help vampire is mostly a programming term for someone that want to get ohers to do all his work.... http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/19665/the-help-vampire-problem
[2:50] <shiftplusone> Sudsey, I managed to configure vsftpd based on the official documentation and the archlinux page I linked you to. I am not particularly bright either.
[2:50] <Sudsey> hmm
[2:50] <Sudsey> I'll look over it again
[2:50] <Sudsey> see if I can gather anything now that it's morning
[2:58] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[3:04] <azizLIGHTS> is apache an approrpiate web server to use on pi?
[3:04] <azizLIGHTS> memory and load wise?
[3:05] <azizLIGHTS> htop says 272/469 MB ram
[3:05] <Gorroth> you don't need to create a chroot. did anyone read the article i posted earlier? ssh can itself map particular user groups to a chroot it manages
[3:05] <shiftplusone> it's ok, but if you don't want to go disabling unecessary modules and optimizing it, just install nginx
[3:05] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:05] <Gorroth> for that particular user group, you can also enable password-enabled logins and set the user with no password and also make it so they can't write
[3:06] <Gorroth> and you can setup some admin user (but it will have to be a real user) taht is also chroot'd there but has a password and has r/w
[3:06] <azizLIGHTS> ok, ill try nginx
[3:06] <azizLIGHTS> does it allow a public_html dir in the user's dir out of hte box
[3:07] <Sudsey> the config gives an option and recommends that you give vsftpd a user for itself
[3:07] <Sudsey> do you think it would be fine to have it share a user with znc?
[3:07] <Gorroth> shiftplusone: can nginx be used to run modules that apache has? like mod_php.so and other things that let languages like ruby and python work?
[3:08] <shiftplusone> Gorroth, nuh, not that I am aware of. It uses fastcgi, so to run php, you need php5-fpm
[3:08] <Gorroth> okay, sounds good
[3:08] <Gorroth> sometime, perhaps i'll figure out how to set taht up
[3:08] <shiftplusone> but yeah, there are other things... not apache modules, but alternatives
[3:09] * shurizzle (~rizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) Quit (Quit: bye.)
[3:10] <Sudsey> there's a one-line option for a welcome message, could I use an \n for a newline?
[3:10] * amigojapan tried apache with PHP on a pi, it seems to work fine
[3:11] <amigojapan> Sudsey: try it out
[3:11] <Sudsey> I'll come back to it when I'm ready to test
[3:12] <amigojapan> Sudsey: first try it with teh welcome message, then withought
[3:12] <Sudsey> yeah, I will
[3:12] <Gorroth> what is the advantage to nginx anyway?
[3:14] <amigojapan> the pi seems to be fine for a LAMP system, except that some PHP modules refuse to compile, like PDO
[3:14] * Kymru (~Kymru@97e39dd1.skybroadband.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[3:14] <shiftplusone> Gorroth, http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Web_Server_Performance_Comparison#Memory_Usage
[3:15] <Gorroth> thanks
[3:15] * beet0l (~beet0l@cpe-74-72-87-242.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:16] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-24-193-127-172.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:16] * plugwash thought pdo was included in the raspbian php packages
[3:17] <amigojapan> plugwash: you need to add it
[3:17] <amigojapan> plugwash: mysqli is included
[3:17] * beet0l (~beet0l@cpe-74-72-87-242.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:33] <plugwash> amigojapan, hmm, I'm running the default raspbian php with php5-mysql installed and no config changes and phpinfo tells me that pdo is enabled
[3:33] <plugwash> with the pdo mysql driver available
[3:34] <amigojapan> plugwash: strange, I had problems with exactly that, that it told me that the PDO driver was not available.... ok, I will look into what was wrong...
[3:35] <shiftplusone> PDO drivers no value
[3:35] <shiftplusone> PDO support enabled
[3:36] * Viper-7 (~viper7@ppp121-44-71-201.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[3:37] <amigojapan> I see shiftplusone
[3:37] <shiftplusone> (I haven't been paying attention to the conversation though, so I may be pasting irrelevant stuff)
[3:38] <plugwash> shiftplusone, do you have php5-mysql installed?
[3:38] <shiftplusone> not yet
[3:38] <shiftplusone> (which would explain it, ey?)
[3:38] <plugwash> mmm
[3:38] <amigojapan> shiftplusone: I had (on a PI that was not mine) tried to use PDO, and it gave me the error that I needed to install the PDO drivers.... when i tried to install them, I got compiling errors
[3:39] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:39] <shiftplusone> PDO drivers mysql
[3:39] <shiftplusone> there we go
[3:39] <amigojapan> ok
[3:40] <amigojapan> guess I was wrong then
[3:40] <shiftplusone> was this an apache module issue or a php issue?
[3:40] <shiftplusone> because, as mentioned earlier, I am not using apache
[3:41] * marque_tools (ca3a5616@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.58.86.22) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:41] <shiftplusone> but I am certain that has nothing to do with it
[3:41] <amigojapan> shiftplusone: hmmm, I would think it was a php issue.... but if you are not suffering from it, then I guess I will try your web server, what did you say it it? nginx?
[3:41] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:41] <shiftplusone> yeah
[3:41] <amigojapan> ok
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[3:43] <Sudsey> the vsftpd article recommends me setting ftp to something other than the default port
[3:43] <Sudsey> do you think that's really necessary
[3:44] <amigojapan> Sudsey: it is probably to prevent people that you dont want from finding yout fpt server, a security issue
[3:44] <Sudsey> I'm not really going to be putting sensitive content on there
[3:45] <amigojapan> ok
[3:45] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[3:46] <SirLagz> Sudsey: i still wouldn't run it on the default port. still possible for them to exploit some unknown vulnerability and cause some damage
[3:46] <Sudsey> arright
[3:46] <SirLagz> steal passwords, etc.
[3:47] <SirLagz> I'm assuming you'll have passwords on there
[3:47] <Sudsey> I'm going to jail every user to /ftp/, and they'll be no sensitive content in there
[3:47] <shiftplusone> Wordpress seems to run quite happily on the pi (hell of a lot better than owncloud D=)
[3:47] <Sudsey> the only users that'll be able to connect are anon and a virtual admin user
[3:48] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[3:48] <Sudsey> still reckon I should change the port?
[3:48] <shiftplusone> Sudsey, do whatever you want.
[3:48] <Sudsey> righto
[3:49] <SirLagz> Sudsey: i would. but that's me and I'm a bit paranoid.
[3:49] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:49] <Sudsey> I was paranoid until half these guys told me that I shouldn't need to worry too much considering every linux system in the world isn't constantly being hacked by every person in the world
[3:50] <SirLagz> when it's things like apache i'm not too worried
[3:50] <shiftplusone> So... mysql is quite resource hungry. Any quick tips to fix that?
[3:50] <SirLagz> but when it's an ftp server, i wouldn't like it to be exposed.
[3:50] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: cut down the amount of ram it allocates by default
[3:51] * Alina-malina (Alina-mali@unaffiliated/alina-malina) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:51] <shiftplusone> Ah yeah, the config file is quite clear ('doh)
[3:51] <shiftplusone> thanks
[3:51] <SirLagz> lol
[3:51] <SirLagz> np
[3:51] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:52] <Sudsey> okay, now we've hit a bit of a road bump
[3:52] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: lowendbox.com also has a blogpost for reducint mysql memory usage
[3:52] <Sudsey> I need to set the home directory for the virtual admin user and set admin as the owner
[3:53] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:53] <Sudsey> but I also want anon to have it set as the home directory, only it doesn't have write access, only admin does
[3:53] <shiftplusone> SirLagz, looks good, thanks again.
[3:54] <SirLagz> np
[3:54] <Sudsey> I also apparently have to disable anons
[3:57] * hurgh_afk (~Hurgh@2001:44b8:417c:1a00::3) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[3:57] <shiftplusone> Without the lowendbox changes, I had 93MB used (all up). With them, 60MB. Nice =)
[3:58] <SirLagz> awesomesauce
[3:58] <SirLagz> lowendbox posts are awesome for the Pi
[3:58] <SirLagz> being all low end and all :D
[3:58] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-24-193-127-172.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:59] <shiftplusone> SirLagz, not so impressive, since I just noticed mysql failed to restart, heh.
[3:59] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: lol do'h
[4:00] <SirLagz> I've got my mysql install sitting on 40MB, but that's on a VM and not on the Pi
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[4:01] <shiftplusone> back to 91M... so that didn't help much
[4:01] * mase76 (~mase@p5DD3AC75.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[4:02] <shiftplusone> Not that I care, since there's still 346MB free.
[4:03] * JMichaelX (~james@unaffiliated/jmichaelx) Quit (Quit: í gegnum göngin, finn ég ró)
[4:03] * felipealmeida (~user@177.205.168.182.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:03] <SirLagz> heh
[4:03] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-24-193-127-172.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:03] <SirLagz> my VM has about the same amount of memory as my Pi :D
[4:03] <SirLagz> but it only has 124 MB of memory free.
[4:03] <SirLagz> I think I'm doing something wrong.
[4:03] <shiftplusone> your own VM or have it hosted somewhere?
[4:03] <SirLagz> my own vm
[4:04] <[Saint]> Mine use 4GB each or something like this.
[4:04] <amigojapan> can we redirect memory from the GPU to the main memory?
[4:04] <[Saint]> Ah, yes. 4GB.
[4:04] <shiftplusone> 552MB used, 434MB free on my linode VM
[4:04] <shiftplusone> amigojapan, yeah, thought it's kind of the other way around.
[4:05] <amigojapan> ok shiftplusone , how?
[4:05] <shiftplusone> amigojapan, You have 512MB to start with, and some that is used by the GPU. You can set how much by modifying the memory split
[4:05] <shiftplusone> check config.txt
[4:05] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: nice. what are you running on your linode vm ?
[4:05] <amigojapan> thanks shiftplusone
[4:05] <shiftplusone> SirLagz, xecdesign.com Just a few tutorials on there, but they seem popular enough to maintain.
[4:05] <SirLagz> ah k
[4:06] <shiftplusone> Used to be a minecraft server, but that was too much effort.
[4:06] <Sudsey> I don't see why you'd have to disable anon to allow virtual users
[4:06] <SirLagz> haha
[4:06] <SirLagz> good ol minecraft
[4:06] <SirLagz> my 6 year old is addicted to minecraft already
[4:06] <shiftplusone> heh
[4:06] <SirLagz> and she keeps wanting to play on my server lol
[4:07] <shiftplusone> It was fun, but eventually it became all admin and no play D=
[4:07] <SirLagz> haha
[4:07] * Syliss (~Home2@dpncorp1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:08] <Sudsey> if anyone here has any experience with setting up virtual users in vsftpd I'd really appreciate some help xD
[4:08] <amigojapan> SirLagz: get your child to use my 3d programming language, it is like minecraft but also educational http://amigojapan.github.io/3dpl/
[4:08] <SirLagz> amigojapan: i don't think she's *that* advanced yet, though I'll keep it in mind
[4:08] * sinni800 (~hurpurdur@178.21.19.210) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:08] <amigojapan> ok :)
[4:09] <Sudsey> '3d flight simulator'
[4:09] <Sudsey> the realism
[4:09] <Sudsey> it burns xD
[4:09] <SirLagz> at the moment she's just building houses and stuff
[4:09] <amigojapan> Sudsey: that is just a program made in my language
[4:09] <Sudsey> I know
[4:09] <Sudsey> :I
[4:10] <SirLagz> amigojapan: it looks pretty awesome though. thanks for the link
[4:10] <Sudsey> yeah, it does
[4:10] <shiftplusone> SirLagz, if she plays online, keep an eye on that... a lot of creeps figured out that minecraft servers are full of kids....
[4:10] * Skei (~skei@unaffiliated/noeve) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:10] <amigojapan> SirLagz: thanks for looking into it :)
[4:10] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: nope, only on my server. I'm well aware of the sort of creeps online
[4:10] <amigojapan> shiftplusone: so you dont only have to beware of creepers? :)
[4:10] <shiftplusone> heh
[4:10] <Sudsey> ba-dum-tss
[4:10] <SirLagz> amigojapan: lol, only just got that.
[4:11] * ponA (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-095-208-008-139.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
[4:11] * hurgh_afk (~Hurgh@ppp59-167-119-138.static.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:11] <Skei> Morning, all. I'm struggling to get my Pi to connect to a wireless network using a command line. Any help would be really appreciated. I've tried editing /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf, but it won't connect to the wireless on boot. I've also tried using wicd-curses, but my LAN drops when I try to connect to the wireless then
[4:12] <amigojapan> :)
[4:12] * sinni801 (~hurpurdur@178.21.19.214) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:13] <amigojapan> Skei: do you have a wireless dongle?
[4:13] * redrocket (~redrocket@unaffiliated/redrocket) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:14] <Skei> amigojapan: of course.
[4:14] <amigojapan> ok
[4:14] * S0-2 (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:15] * azeam (~azeam@unaffiliated/azeam) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[4:17] <Skei> No thoughts ?
[4:17] * Exdaix (~Exdaix@155.247.19.166) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[4:18] <amigojapan> Skei: no idea, have you tried the GUI application to configure wireless in raspbian, on the desktop?
[4:18] * Exdaix (~Exdaix@155.247.19.166) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:18] <Skei> No, I'm running it headless.
[4:19] <amigojapan> Skei: maybe give it a try thru VNC
[4:21] <Sudsey> shiftplusone: so, you said you had experience with vsftpd
[4:21] <Sudsey> I've does as much configuration as I think I can do by myself, but now I'm a little stuck
[4:21] * espitz (~chatzilla@c-98-222-51-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:22] <shiftplusone> Sudsey, I wouldn't want to go through it again.
[4:22] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:22] <espitz> hello all
[4:22] <Sudsey> touche
[4:22] <amigojapan> hi espitz
[4:22] <Sudsey> anyone else have any experience?
[4:22] <Sudsey> o/
[4:22] * KindOne (KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[4:22] <SirLagz> not recently no. why not just use SFTP/SCP ?
[4:22] <espitz> experience with?
[4:23] <Sudsey> vsftpd
[4:23] <Sudsey> SirLagz: we had a fairly large discussion about that this morning haha
[4:23] <SirLagz> Sudsey: lol must have missed it
[4:24] <espitz> ah... no... but I would asj the same as SirLagz... why not SFTP/SCP
[4:24] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:24] <Sudsey> mainly because the way I'm trying to configure it would be a pain in the ass with sftp
[4:24] <SirLagz> owncloud ? dropbox type system ?
[4:24] <amigojapan> espitz: that has been the topic for the last few hours, he doesnt want it, he is not flexible
[4:24] <Sudsey> ftp because I want to make use of my pi haha
[4:24] <SirLagz> write a php based file uploder/downloader with authentication
[4:25] <SirLagz> then don't even need to mess with ftp
[4:25] <Sudsey> not too good with web stuff
[4:25] <SirLagz> Sudsey: i've written one up already if you're comfortable customising it
[4:25] * KindOne (KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:26] <amigojapan> SirLagz: he refused to install a web server
[4:26] <SirLagz> oh.
[4:26] <SirLagz> well that's not making very good use of the Pi ll
[4:26] <SirLagz> lol*
[4:26] <NothingMn> http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-Owncloud-dropbox-clone/ :)
[4:26] <amigojapan> SirLagz: he thinks ftp is less overhead than a web server
[4:26] <Sudsey> heh
[4:26] <espitz> well, I'm new here, so excuse me if I'm being obtuse... but 3 hours is long time to try to talk someone into doing something they dont want to do... lol
[4:27] <Sudsey> I'm using it for the purpose of just leaving files on it to move around places and also for other people to get them from if they ever want them
[4:27] <Sudsey> and for people I'm partnered with to edit and then reupload
[4:27] <SirLagz> Sudsey: if you're spending this much time configuring it, you'd be better off with a pre-built solution
[4:27] <Sudsey> also because I like ftp in general and want to set one up on my pi haha
[4:28] <Sudsey> SirLagz: but I have to learn D:
[4:28] <SirLagz> learning ftp isn't too useful nowadays lol
[4:28] <Sudsey> haha
[4:28] <SirLagz> I don't know anything off the top of my head that still uses fTP
[4:28] <Sudsey> just how to linux/server things in general
[4:29] <SirLagz> Sudsey: you should learn how to linux/server a webserver then ;)
[4:29] <Sudsey> heh
[4:29] <SirLagz> and then linux/server php as well
[4:29] <Sudsey> if I ever set up a webserver for webserver things I'll move the ftp server onto it for the sake of efficiency
[4:29] <SirLagz> and then linux/server a web based file uploader/downloader
[4:29] <Sudsey> our school uses ftp and I know a fair few things other things do, albeit in a webserver form
[4:30] <SirLagz> because that's what i ended up doing 10 years ago to do the exact same thing you're doing now
[4:30] <Sudsey> very true xD
[4:30] <SirLagz> holy crap. that was 10 years ago.
[4:30] <SirLagz> back when i was in school lol
[4:30] <SirLagz> i feel old now
[4:30] <Sudsey> I'm still /in/ school
[4:31] <SirLagz> Sudsey: i figured :D
[4:31] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:31] <SirLagz> Sudsey: wild guess...are you 16 ?
[4:31] <Sudsey> 15 in a month or two
[4:31] <SirLagz> haha close
[4:31] <Sudsey> it's really for the sake of having an interest in setting up and managing these things, and for making use of a pi
[4:31] * jbaanus (~jbaanus@143.112.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:31] <SirLagz> i had the exact same mindset as you 11 years ago :D
[4:31] <Sudsey> I have no interest in managing/using a webserver atm, so I have no reason to set one up
[4:31] * nitdega_ (nitdega@2602:306:2421:8d71:b58c:c6b3:fde1:6af8) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:31] <Sudsey> haha
[4:31] <Somasis> using bittorrent sync with raspberry pi is perfection
[4:32] <SirLagz> Sudsey: back then, i built up an old AMD k6 box, and started building all sorts of servers on it
[4:32] <Sudsey> hehe
[4:32] <SirLagz> web server, ftp, mail, samba, irc, half-life
[4:32] * plugwash generally gets the feeling that ftp is on it's way out
[4:32] <SirLagz> plugwash: agreed.
[4:33] <Sudsey> obviously if this was a practical situation and I was making some sort of utility and I needed a cdn (if that's the right word), then I would be using a webserver, for obvious reasons
[4:33] <plugwash> for anonymous file serving http has lower overheads and less complexity
[4:33] <Sudsey> but this isn't serious, it's for fun
[4:33] <SirLagz> with the whole cloud file storage solutions out there, ftp is becoming less and less useful
[4:33] <Sudsey> plugwash: yeah, definitely
[4:33] <Sudsey> woah
[4:33] <Sudsey> netsplit on esper
[4:33] <plugwash> and for authenticated access people generally desire systems that don't send passwords in plain text over the internet
[4:33] <plugwash> (at least the smart ones do)
[4:33] <Sudsey> I've set up SSL for the ftp server
[4:34] <Sudsey> so that's not as much of an issue
[4:34] <espitz> I'm partial to SCP myself, though I'm not sure what "security" concerns you might have... in my opinion, it's by far the easiest cross-platform solution to work with
[4:34] <Sudsey> anyway, let's get back on track, shall we? xD
[4:34] <Sudsey> does anyone have experience with vsftpd? xD
[4:34] <SirLagz> nope, but i could spin up a VM and mess around with it tonight...maybe
[4:35] * nitdega (nitdega@2602:306:2421:8d71:b58c:c6b3:fde1:6af8) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:35] <SirLagz> if I'm not too busy lol
[4:35] <plugwash> last time I needed a ftp server I ended up using proftpd but i've no idea if it was a good choice or not
[4:35] <SirLagz> i used vsftpd last time i used ftp
[4:35] <Sudsey> haha if you manage to suss it out in an evening I will be impressed
[4:35] <SirLagz> though it was very badly configured
[4:35] <amigojapan> Sudsey anyway, let's get back on track, shall we?<--------------- help vampires think that helping them is the hight of one's day http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/19665/the-help-vampire-problem
[4:35] <Sudsey> yeah, yeah, w/e
[4:36] <SirLagz> well it's better than reading doco for work which is what i *should* be doing lol
[4:36] * jbaanus (~jbaanus@143.112.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:36] <plugwash> what does annoy me with http is that it doesn't have a standard way to get a file listing for a directory
[4:36] <Sudsey> I managed to set up the anons correctly (I think), SSL is configured, and the virtual admin user is /almost/ configured, which is what I'm having the issue with
[4:37] * Pi42 (~pi@unaffiliated/pi42) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[4:37] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:37] <Sudsey> I've blocked every user except anon and admin as well, I'd like to keep it contained two those two users for the sake of simplicity
[4:38] <Sudsey> amigojapan: btw, thanks for (cough) motivating me enough to get me this far xD
[4:38] <amigojapan> Sudsey: work hard :)
[4:39] <Sudsey> indeed
[4:39] <Sudsey> I just have no idea where to go from this point
[4:40] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:40] <amigojapan> Sudsey: what other problemdo you have?
[4:40] * vandymcnew (~vandymcne@adsl-065-007-232-086.sip.bna.bellsouth.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:40] <amigojapan> Sudsey: try pastebiniing your config file perhaps
[4:40] <espitz> maybe to the vsftpd irc channel on this server? #vsftpd
[4:40] <espitz> lol
[4:40] <Sudsey> it's empty
[4:40] <Sudsey> I've tried, trust me
[4:40] <espitz> damn
[4:40] <espitz> smartass fail
[4:41] <amigojapan> Sudsey: how about #linux ?
[4:41] <Sudsey> that's a good idea, actually
[4:41] <Sudsey> I might try later
[4:41] <Sudsey> let me just check my config file over for sensitive information before I pastebin it
[4:41] <amigojapan> ok
[4:42] <Sudsey> http://pastebin.com/RNq6W4HR
[4:42] <amigojapan> let me see
[4:43] <Sudsey> okay, so I think I've set up anons as I need them to be (no password, 10KBps, read-only), SSL, and userlist denial to every user except admin
[4:44] <Sudsey> I'm not sure if I've set up chroot properly, I need nothing to be able to leave /srv/ftp/
[4:44] * imRance (~Rance@220.165.185.191) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:44] <Sudsey> also, do you think userlist denial should be set to everything except admin or virtual
[4:45] <Sudsey> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Very_Secure_FTP_Daemon I've been following this
[4:45] <amigojapan> ok Sudsey ans what is the problem?
[4:45] <Sudsey> just stuck as to what I should be doing next
[4:45] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:45] <amigojapan> Sudsey: run the ftp server?
[4:46] <Sudsey> it's definitely not configured correctly, I can say that
[4:46] <amigojapan> hmm Sudsey I can read your mind, as to what you want it to do
[4:46] <Sudsey> it's like a half-constructed frankenstein
[4:46] <Sudsey> I'm trying to explain xD
[4:47] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@202.92.67.179) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[4:47] <Sudsey> I need anons to have no password, read-only access, inability to leave /srv/ftp/, and a transfer limit of 10KBps
[4:47] <amigojapan> Sudsey: I already heard, you want anonymous users and admin... all I can think is you might want to create the admion user
[4:47] <Sudsey> I think I've done everything correctly except the third one
[4:47] <Sudsey> I've set admin as a virtual user
[4:48] <amigojapan> I dont know how or it you can limit the transfer rate
[4:48] <Sudsey> anon_max_rate=10000
[4:48] <Sudsey> that's in bytes/second
[4:48] <amigojapan> ok Sudsey so what else is the problem?
[4:48] <Sudsey> would chroot apply to anon users as well?
[4:49] <Sudsey> if not, how would I have it apply to it?
[4:49] <amigojapan> Sudsey: run the ftp server and try it out
[4:49] <amigojapan> log in as anon
[4:49] <Sudsey> okay, I'll wait until it's ready to test and we'll see
[4:50] <Sudsey> next bit that's not done properly is the userlist
[4:50] <amigojapan> brb
[4:50] <Sudsey> there's a list of users that are allowed to log into ftp, should a) anon be included and b) should the real user virtual be in there or the virtual user admin
[4:50] <Sudsey> alright
[4:51] <Sudsey> the real user virtual handles admin
[4:52] <espitz> anonymous users are restricted (chrooted) to anon_root
[4:52] <espitz> reading from docs...
[4:53] <Sudsey> alright, cool
[4:54] * NothingMn (~nothingmn@S0106687f749dce36.vc.shawcable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:55] <espitz> for what it's worth, there's a note that anon cant access symlinks either, unless it points to a location in anon_root
[4:55] <Sudsey> sweet
[4:57] <Sudsey> now, I'm trying to work out exactly what my problem with the virtual users it haha
[4:58] * sco` (~ross2@unaffiliated/sco/x-3425046) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[5:02] <amigojapan> Sudsey: you should have been running the ftp server to test each change you made....
[5:02] <Sudsey> hmmmmm
[5:02] <Sudsey> meh
[5:02] <espitz> this seems pretty straight forward to me: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=518293
[5:02] <Sudsey> xD
[5:03] <espitz> scroll down to scroll down to: "Virtual users with TLS/SSL/FTPS and a common upload directory - Complicated vsftpd"
[5:03] <espitz> nothing really ubuntu specific I can see there except the certficates
[5:03] <Sudsey> alright, the other thing
[5:03] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:04] <Sudsey> for all the config examples that the virtual user guides give it says to disable anon users
[5:04] <Sudsey> would you think that that's required?
[5:04] * DDave (~DDave@unaffiliated/ddave) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:06] <amigojapan> Sudsey: try it out
[5:06] <Sudsey> true
[5:06] <amigojapan> Sudsey: try it with anon enabled and virtual users
[5:06] <espitz> from vsftpd FAQ: Q) Help! Does vsftpd support virtual users?
[5:06] <espitz> A) Yes, via PAM integration. Set "guest_enable=YES" in /etc/vsftpd.conf. This
[5:06] <espitz> has the effect of mapping every non-anonymous successful login to the local
[5:06] <espitz> username specified in "guest_username". Then, use PAM and (e.g.) its pam_userdb
[5:06] <Sudsey> okay, I need the home directory of every user to be /srv/ftp/, but each non-anon has their own private directory
[5:06] <espitz> module to provide authentication against an external (i.e. non-/etc/passwd)
[5:06] <espitz> repository of users.
[5:06] * plugwash (~plugwash@97e03ff4.skybroadband.com) has left #raspberrypi
[5:07] * TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[5:07] * [7] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:07] <espitz> that implies you can have anon and virtual users
[5:08] <Sudsey> alright, I'll leave anon users enabled and see how it goes
[5:08] <amigojapan> right
[5:09] * marque_tools (ca3a5616@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.58.86.22) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[5:09] <Sudsey> I'll check everything over and we'll see how it goes
[5:10] <amigojapan> ok
[5:10] * heath_kid (~heathkid@unaffiliated/heathkid) has left #raspberrypi
[5:12] <espitz> so...
[5:12] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:12] <espitz> what's new in the rpi world?
[5:13] <amigojapan> espitz: i wish android worked on rpi
[5:13] <espitz> soon my friend
[5:13] <amigojapan> ok
[5:13] <espitz> someone always finds a way... lol
[5:13] <espitz> the rpi lacks a lot of "required" items though
[5:13] <espitz> it'll have to be a hack
[5:13] <amigojapan> I want to port my 3d programming language to rpi, but that would be easy on android
[5:15] <espitz> hmm
[5:15] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:15] <espitz> I've never tried it, but I wonder if libgdx would run on rpi
[5:16] <amigojapan> espitz: my program is a unity3d program
[5:16] <espitz> similar concept, which is why I thought about it :)
[5:17] <amigojapan> espitz: apparently on android unity does use opengl es
[5:17] * devslash (~towlie@unaffiliated/devslash) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:17] <devslash> hi
[5:17] <amigojapan> hi
[5:17] <espitz> I dabble in 3d programming myself.. but I use libgdx pretty much exclusively
[5:18] <amigojapan> ok
[5:18] <espitz> I was a contributor to that project, though... so how could I not use it? :)
[5:18] <espitz> well ogles certainly works on rpi - that I know for sure
[5:18] <Sudsey> okay, I get permission denied when I try to connect
[5:18] <Sudsey> hmm
[5:19] <amigojapan> espitz: yeah, and if android worked, and we could just install apps from the google play store, then I think my app owuld work
[5:19] <Sudsey> I'll try disabling anon
[5:20] <devslash> hey i was using my pi as a web server but im not using it for that any more.
[5:20] <devslash> fo you guys have a recommendation as to another use that wont require me to buy a lot more things
[5:21] <amigojapan> devslash: what is that?
[5:21] <devslash> ?
[5:21] <devslash> what do you mean
[5:21] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit ()
[5:21] <amigojapan> devslash: what have we guys recommended?
[5:21] <devslash> i dunno
[5:21] <espitz> as an old school game emulator... its a popular choice
[5:21] <devslash> im not sure what to do with it
[5:21] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:21] <devslash> what kind of controller will work with it
[5:22] <espitz> well theoretically any with GPIO
[5:22] <espitz> but easier options are usb controllers
[5:22] <devslash> i might have a usb controller
[5:22] <espitz> like logitech f310
[5:22] <espitz> can buy them for maybe $20
[5:22] <espitz> or less on ebay
[5:22] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:23] <espitz> lots of people use xbox and ps3 wireless controllers as well, with a bluetooth dongle
[5:23] <espitz> but you will probably have to buy a powered uSB hub for that
[5:23] <espitz> rpi has trouble delivering enough power to the onboard usb ports
[5:23] <vandymcnew> Im in the same boat. My pi should be here by the weekend and I have no idea what to do with it.
[5:24] <devslash> i have a powered usb hub
[5:24] <devslash> i was using it to power an external hard drive storing the media that I used for my media server
[5:25] <espitz> or if you're more adventurous you can get an old SNES controller and wire it to the GPIO
[5:25] <espitz> there are plenty of tutorials online for that
[5:25] <devslash> i would have no clue how to do that
[5:25] * solitz (~Solitz@c-98-240-136-186.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[5:25] <espitz> using the rpi as a media station is also popular
[5:26] <espitz> using xbmc
[5:26] <espitz> takes maybe 30-60 minutes to set up
[5:26] <amigojapan> not on my rpi, but on my PC, I have found htat xbox 360 USB controllers, are very high quality, I was not able to play ocntra until I bought them
[5:26] <espitz> can even get a remote for it :)
[5:27] <amigojapan> contra*
[5:27] <vandymcnew> espitz a buddy of mine does that. I was thinking that might be a good option for a first project.
[5:27] <Sudsey> okay, anonymous works, but not admin
[5:27] <Sudsey> I get GnuTLS error -15: An unexpected TLS packet was received. on filezilla after the password is given
[5:27] <SirLagz> so don't use admin ?
[5:28] <Sudsey> :I
[5:28] <Sudsey> not sure if trolling
[5:28] <espitz> which one vandymcnew?
[5:28] <SirLagz> Sudsey: why do you need the admin user ?
[5:29] <Sudsey> admin is going to have full r/w while anon will only have read
[5:29] <vandymcnew> espitz: media controller
[5:29] <espitz> ahh yeah
[5:29] <SirLagz> so will everyone have admin access then ?
[5:29] <espitz> I would say it's the #2 use of an rpi
[5:29] <Sudsey> admin is passworded
[5:29] <vandymcnew> espitz: what do you think is #1?
[5:30] <Sudsey> they're the only two users that can be connected with
[5:30] <espitz> retro game console :)
[5:30] <vandymcnew> ahh
[5:30] <SirLagz> Sudsey: so why not password anon and give anon r/w access ?
[5:30] <espitz> check this forum for lots of ideas: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=15
[5:30] * mike_t (~mike@88.200.197.255) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:31] <Sudsey> haha
[5:31] <Sudsey> thanks xD
[5:31] <Sudsey> SirLagz: because I want people to be able to download things from the server but not upload
[5:31] <Sudsey> I feel like you're trolling me
[5:31] <SirLagz> Sudsey: no, i'm suggestion options that are options
[5:32] <Sudsey> riiiight
[5:32] <SirLagz> Sudsey: I have no idea how it's going to be used so I'm just firing off suggestions to the problems that you're having
[5:32] <Sudsey> haha, alright
[5:33] <Sudsey> admin is going to have full r/w access to everything inside /srv/ftp/ and have its own private folder, and is passworded
[5:33] <SirLagz> uh huh
[5:33] <Sudsey> anon has no password, can only read and cannot access admin's folder
[5:33] <SirLagz> uh huh
[5:33] * PRC-1989 (462662e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.38.98.231) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:33] <Sudsey> so I can leave things on it that I make and if my friends ever need them they can just grab them anonymously
[5:33] <PRC-1989> Hey guys!
[5:33] <SirLagz> have you tried creating another user with admin rights and not using the default admin account ?
[5:33] <PRC-1989> Anyone able to help me with a network problem?
[5:33] <Sudsey> SirLagz: admin is a virtual user
[5:34] <SirLagz> I don't remember how vsftpd comes configured by default so that may or may not be an option
[5:34] <PRC-1989> My RasPi drops the ethernet connection every time I use it.
[5:34] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: tried a different power supply ?
[5:34] <PRC-1989> As is if I ping 192.168.1.1 it pings it once and then kills itself
[5:34] <PRC-1989> Yes, I have.
[5:34] * solitz (~Solitz@c-98-240-136-186.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:34] <Sudsey> nobody brings packets into my lair
[5:34] <Sudsey> you must die
[5:34] <PRC-1989> Also tried different ethernet cable
[5:34] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: does the Pi still have an IP address when it dies ?
[5:35] <SirLagz> Sudsey: create a new virtual user with admin rights and try with that ?
[5:35] <PRC-1989> Nope.
[5:35] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: does dmesg show anything interesting ?
[5:35] * JMichaelX (~james@unaffiliated/jmichaelx) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:35] <PRC-1989> I actually assigned a static IP
[5:35] <Sudsey> SirLagz: what exactly would that accomplish
[5:35] <Sudsey> if I can't get one to work then I won't be able to get another to work eithre
[5:35] <Sudsey> either*
[5:36] <SirLagz> Sudsey: you'd be surprised how setting something up from scratch can reveal things you've missed.
[5:36] <Sudsey> true
[5:36] <PRC-1989> What shoul I look for in dmesg?
[5:37] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: reboot the Pi, run dmesg after it boots, do a ping, run dmesg again and see if anything new comes up
[5:37] <SirLagz> Sudsey: and it's always good to get some practice in.
[5:37] * aphadke (~Adium@183.87.28.164) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:37] <Sudsey> I'd like to at least get it working first haha
[5:37] * aphadke (~Adium@183.87.28.164) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:37] <Sudsey> fixing practice
[5:38] * MrThePlague (~v4x@unaffiliated/v4x) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:38] <SirLagz> if i was at home I'd setup vsftpd myself and see what happens...but I'm not lol
[5:38] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@202.92.67.179) has left #raspberrypi
[5:39] <PRC-1989> SirLagz, there's an interesting side effect I'm having.
[5:39] <PRC-1989> Every time the eth dies, my usb keyboard mouse also die
[5:40] <PRC-1989> And it comes on when the eth comes back on
[5:40] <SirLagz> sounds like the onboard usb hub is crapping itself
[5:40] * MrThePlague (~v4x@unaffiliated/v4x) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:40] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: do you have a multimeter ?
[5:40] <PRC-1989> What could cause that?
[5:40] <PRC-1989> Nope.
[5:40] <SirLagz> power, dodgey x1 crystal
[5:40] <SirLagz> heat
[5:40] <PRC-1989> So it's not a software issue.
[5:41] <SirLagz> i doubt it
[5:41] <PRC-1989> So the only thing I can do is change the pi.
[5:41] <PRC-1989> That's good, I bought in only yesterday.
[5:41] <SirLagz> or get a multimeter and measure power across TP1 and TP2
[5:41] <SirLagz> what sort of power supply are you using ?
[5:41] <PRC-1989> 5v 1a
[5:41] <SirLagz> genuine 5V 1A though A
[5:41] <SirLagz> ?
[5:42] <SirLagz> a lot of cheap power supplies says they can do that, but they can't
[5:42] <PRC-1989> How would I know if it's genuine?
[5:42] <SirLagz> where did you buy it from ?
[5:42] <SirLagz> a multimeter would give you a good indication
[5:42] * JMichaelX is now known as Heimskur
[5:42] <PRC-1989> A shop
[5:42] <PRC-1989> General store
[5:42] * kamdard (~kamdard@pool-71-170-199-182.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:42] <PRC-1989> for 3 bucks
[5:42] <PRC-1989> I'm in China, btw.
[5:43] <SirLagz> i wouldn't count on it being able to supply 5V 1A then
[5:43] <SirLagz> yea, i figured you were in china lol
[5:43] <PRC-1989> oh ffs
[5:43] <PRC-1989> Lost my iPhone charger.
[5:43] <SirLagz> so you bought this for 3 yuan ?
[5:43] <PRC-1989> 15
[5:44] <SirLagz> ok thats not so bad then lol...
[5:44] <PRC-1989> I think it's genuine.
[5:44] <PRC-1989> It's got a Samsung logo
[5:44] <SirLagz> but i still wouldn't count it to provide 5V 1A
[5:44] <SirLagz> my HTC charger that I got from China isn't genuine but still has a HTC logo on it :P
[5:45] <PRC-1989> Where'd you buy it?
[5:45] <SirLagz> hong kong
[5:45] <PRC-1989> Found my iPhone charger!
[5:45] <SirLagz> use that
[5:45] <PRC-1989> It's an HK socket, though.
[5:45] <PRC-1989> I'll try
[5:45] <SirLagz> iPhone charger would definitely pump out more power
[5:49] <Sudsey> hooray
[5:49] <Sudsey> my ftp server /works/ :D
[5:50] <SirLagz> nice
[5:50] * Heimskur is now known as Besoffen
[5:50] <SirLagz> howd u fix it ?
[5:50] <Sudsey> I enabled writable chroot
[5:50] <Sudsey> it works, but it's not configured as I need it
[5:51] <PRC-1989> Well, now the usb key/mouse won't even work.
[5:51] <Sudsey> I think writable chroot might be a bit bandaid, so once it works I might go reconfigure it entirely or just tweak it and configure it properly
[5:51] <PRC-1989> And the eth lights are all dead and don't even come on.
[5:51] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: get a new Pi.
[5:51] <PRC-1989> Bloody hell.
[5:51] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: or a multimeter so at least we can begin diagnosing.
[5:52] <PRC-1989> I have to go over 50km to get that pi
[5:52] <PRC-1989> Why does this always happen to me?
[5:52] <SirLagz> bugger. well if you can get a multimeter then that would help
[5:53] * bizarro_1 (~bizarro_1@24.Red-193-152-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:53] <PRC-1989> It would only help diagnosing, the problem is obviously hardware related.
[5:54] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: it could be that your USB cable could be buggered too
[5:54] <SirLagz> have you tried a new USB cable ?
[5:54] <PRC-1989> orly?
[5:54] <PRC-1989> Nope.
[5:54] <SirLagz> try that
[5:55] <PRC-1989> Are multimeters expensive?
[5:55] <Sudsey> okay, so it almost works as expected
[5:55] <Sudsey> admin shows up for anons but nothing appears to be in it for them
[5:55] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: nope
[5:55] <Sudsey> I'll keep working on this later, time to go play some tribes haha
[5:55] <Sudsey> thanks guys
[5:56] <PRC-1989> I can go out and buy one now, do I need a special kind or are they all the same?
[5:57] <SirLagz> PRC-1989: they are all about the same
[5:58] * pwh (~pwh@18.189.14.113) Quit ()
[5:59] <PRC-1989> k, brb Sirlagz
[5:59] <PRC-1989> Thank you very much for your interest in my problem.
[5:59] <PRC-1989> People like you make the world go round.
[5:59] <SirLagz> np
[6:02] <espitz> sorry, distracted by work... what'd I miss?
[6:03] <espitz> what you need an MM for? for about the same price you can just buy another PI :)
[6:04] <SirLagz> buy another pi...and then find out that the USB cable isn't up to scratch ?
[6:05] <espitz> but then you'll have your answer and two pies!
[6:05] <SirLagz> and i certainly can't buy a Pi for $10AUD...don't know where you are though lol
[6:05] <espitz> two pies is always betetr than one
[6:05] <espitz> MM maybe $20 here in US
[6:06] <espitz> PI about $25 for A model
[6:06] <espitz> $35 for B model
[6:06] * \\Mr_C\\ (~mrc@108-233-229-93.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:06] <SirLagz> it's almost $50AUD for a B model, before shipping costs.
[6:06] <espitz> jeez
[6:06] * pwh (~pwh@18.189.14.113) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:07] <espitz> I got mine with case, breadboard, bunch of wires, SD card preloaded with Noobs for $50 US, including the shipping
[6:07] <SirLagz> i wish i could get that for that cheap lol
[6:07] <shiftplusone> Bah.. yeah... GST+unreasonable shipping costs make the pi quite expensive over here in .au
[6:08] <espitz> sorry about that
[6:08] <SirLagz> indeedy
[6:08] <espitz> GST is 10% or so?
[6:08] <SirLagz> yep
[6:08] <espitz> yeah, that's terrible
[6:09] <shiftplusone> yeah, but the E14 jerks add it after calculating shipping.
[6:09] <espitz> but not as bad as Germany :)
[6:09] <espitz> I lived there for a few years... tax was something like 16%
[6:09] <SirLagz> if my parents go back to Hong Kong anytime soon, might get them to pick me up some Pis
[6:09] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:10] <shiftplusone> Sounds like a plan. Think I'll get my brother to bring back some when he goes as well >_<
[6:10] <shiftplusone> Would be nice to get a few red ones too
[6:10] <SirLagz> haha yeah
[6:10] <SirLagz> my parents want me to build a Karaoke machine for them, the Pi would be perfect for that
[6:10] <shiftplusone> heh
[6:11] * azizLIGHTS (~azizLIGHT@c-50-154-34-44.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:12] <SirLagz> especially since they don't have an LCD tv yet lol
[6:13] <espitz> oh my
[6:14] * BeBored (BeBored@37-4-140-154-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:14] <espitz> so what are you using your pi(s) for?
[6:14] <SirLagz> atm ? my Pis are sitting there useless lol
[6:14] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:14] <shiftplusone> Got a big ol' CRT in the living room here. Don't use it anyway so see no point of buying another one. >.>
[6:14] <SirLagz> i haven't used them in a while
[6:15] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: my parents are just squeezing as much as they can out of the CRT...it's already 20 year old so it's doing alright haha
[6:15] * shiftplusone sighs.... no stereotypes or anything >_<
[6:15] <SirLagz> hahaha
[6:16] <SirLagz> my parents don't own a single lcd tv
[6:16] <SirLagz> but they have like 5 crts that they've accumlated over the years
[6:17] <espitz> I have two CRTs still, but just one for my eldest and one for the guestroom
[6:17] <espitz> each time I buy a new LCD I cycle out a CRT
[6:18] * longbeach (~mike@AFontenayssB-152-1-17-59.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:19] <SirLagz> i still have 2 crts too. kids using one, and the other one is about to be destroyed.
[6:20] <espitz> I had a 36" CRT in our media room... that was the first to go... that thing was as heavy as a small car... lol
[6:21] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:22] * PRC-1989_ (462662e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.38.98.231) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:22] <PRC-1989_> Damnit
[6:22] <PRC-1989_> Lost connection
[6:22] <PRC-1989_> SirLagz, I got the meter
[6:22] <PRC-1989_> Now what?
[6:23] <SirLagz> PRC-1989_: power it up, and measure voltage across tp1 and tp2 and report what it says
[6:23] <PRC-1989_> What setting do I set the meter to? It's got this wheel in the middle with a million of them
[6:23] <SirLagz> uhh
[6:23] <espitz> V
[6:23] <SirLagz> is there one that says DC 20V
[6:23] <SirLagz> ?
[6:24] <PRC-1989_> I think so
[6:24] * PRC-1989 (462662e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.38.98.231) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[6:24] <espitz> might be a V with a straight and dotted line running in parallel
[6:25] <espitz> or could save VDC or DCV
[6:25] <espitz> say* not save
[6:25] <PRC-1989_> Yeah, there's the v with the straight and dotted
[6:26] * trickyhero (~Deitrick@d4-50-215-4.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:26] <espitz> ok thats DC Voltage
[6:26] <PRC-1989_> 20
[6:26] <SirLagz> ok, that one
[6:26] <SirLagz> 20
[6:26] <espitz> then should be some numbers
[6:26] <espitz> use 20
[6:26] <espitz> you og tit
[6:26] <PRC-1989_> Gotcha
[6:26] <SirLagz> and then stick red on tp1 nd black on tp2 on the pi after you power the pi up
[6:26] <PRC-1989_> k
[6:26] <trickyhero> what should I do if my raspberrypi won't boot from noobs
[6:27] <espitz> can you be more specific trickyhero?
[6:27] <espitz> does it do anything?
[6:27] * vandymcnew (~vandymcne@adsl-065-007-232-086.sip.bna.bellsouth.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[6:27] <espitz> splash screen?
[6:27] <espitz> soemthing?
[6:27] <trickyhero> i just unloaded the unziped folder onto the sd card and it is not outputting anything to the tv
[6:27] <shiftplusone> if there's nothing on screen, what happens to the LEDs when you power it up?
[6:28] <trickyhero> the red power one is on
[6:28] <shiftplusone> and the ACT doesn't flash at all?
[6:28] * KindOne (KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:29] <trickyhero> ACT is on dimly it's green
[6:29] <trickyhero> not flashing
[6:29] <shiftplusone> Is the SD card formatted as FAT32?
[6:29] <trickyhero> yes
[6:29] <shiftplusone> Well, it's not able to read the sd card.
[6:30] <shiftplusone> try unplugging the power, inserting the card and holding it down by pinching the card and the board together, power up the pi and keep holding the card that way. Any difference?
[6:31] <espitz> are you using HDMI?
[6:31] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[6:32] <shiftplusone> espitz, doesn't matter. The LED activity indicated that not even the firmware is loading.
[6:32] * marque_tools (ca3a5616@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.58.86.22) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:32] <espitz> oh I thought he said it was lit
[6:32] <shiftplusone> dimly lit
[6:32] * KindOne (~KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:32] <espitz> not flashing... I see
[6:32] <espitz> sorry
[6:32] <shiftplusone> it gets stuck in a loop and it appears like it's dimly lit
[6:32] <trickyhero> holding together didn't do anything
[6:33] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:33] <trickyhero> yes Ilm using HDMI espitz
[6:33] <espitz> what if the power supply us bunk shift?
[6:33] <espitz> same indications?
[6:33] <espitz> havent run into that myself
[6:34] <espitz> is it plugged into an adapter and the wall?
[6:34] <trickyhero> ok I'll try another SD card, I'v used this pi before but that was awhile ago so the pi should be fine
[6:34] <PRC-1989_> It says 3.92
[6:34] <PRC-1989_> Is that bad?
[6:34] <shiftplusone> PRC-1989_, very
[6:34] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:34] <espitz> cause USB port/hub may not provide adequate power
[6:34] <trickyhero> using a power strip
[6:34] <espitz> ok
[6:34] <PRC-1989_> How much should it say?
[6:35] <espitz> and at least 5V 500mA adapter I'm assuming?
[6:35] <shiftplusone> espitz, if the PWR light is on it means the 3.3v regulator is at least doing something. The pi can boot with 3.3v, so it would fail a little later. This usually indicated an SD card issue rather than power. But it's always worth checking anyway.
[6:35] <espitz> preferably 1000mA
[6:35] <PRC-1989_> 5v 1a
[6:35] <espitz> q was for trickyhero PRC
[6:35] <espitz> sorry about that
[6:36] <trickyhero> 200 ma
[6:36] <espitz> 200mA
[6:36] <espitz> hmm
[6:36] <trickyhero> i guess that is the problem
[6:36] <espitz> that;s really low
[6:36] * marque_tools (ca3a5616@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.58.86.22) Quit (Client Quit)
[6:36] <shiftplusone> trickyhero, you're using a 200mA supply!?
[6:37] <espitz> you have a smart phone power adapter with USB?
[6:37] <espitz> those will usually be good enough, at least for a quick test
[6:37] * marque_tools (ca3a5616@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.58.86.22) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:38] <shiftplusone> Goes to show you... always worth asking about power...
[6:38] <espitz> you could also try plugging into a computer... but no guarantee it will provide enough amperage
[6:38] <espitz> 50mA is all that has to be provided by spec I think, from a USB port
[6:40] <trickyhero> welp I have to find a new power supply thanks for the help guys
[6:40] <shiftplusone> trickyhero, just wondering... does the PWR LED fade at all as you power it up?
[6:41] * KindOne (~KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:41] <PRC-1989_> @shiftplusone, good sir, how much should the reading have said?
[6:42] <shiftplusone> PRC-1989_, close to 5V +/- 0.2v
[6:42] <PRC-1989_> Does that indicate a power supply problem?
[6:42] <espitz> you could also try unplugging everything trickyhero... all peripheral, etc.. to see what happens
[6:42] <shiftplusone> PRC-1989_, could be power supply, the cable you are using and/or the polyfuse.
[6:43] <espitz> but according to raspi FAQ even the model A needs 500mA with no peripherals connected
[6:43] <PRC-1989_> Is there any way I can test the power supply using my multimeter?
[6:43] <shiftplusone> espitz, that's because giving the worst case scenario is safer.
[6:43] <espitz> so you're probably better off just finding a proper PS first
[6:44] <espitz> I make no argument shift
[6:44] * KindOne (KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:44] <espitz> but finding a proper PS will be necessary regardless... 200mA is useuless
[6:44] <shiftplusone> not an argument either, just saying whey they put 500mA there rather than the actual value, heh.
[6:45] <shiftplusone> PRC-1989_, the output of the power supply will depend on the load. So if you manage to measure the output of the supply with no load, it won't tell you much. It's kind of hard to measure close to the supply while you have a pi powered up as well.
[6:45] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:45] <shiftplusone> PRC-1989_, it's easier to eliminate the polyfuse and the cable.
[6:46] <shiftplusone> Measure the voltage across F3 and try a few different cables
[6:46] <shiftplusone> if the neither account for the low voltage, it has to be the supply
[6:46] * Skei (~skei@unaffiliated/noeve) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[6:48] * n13z (~iosick@unaffiliated/n13z) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[6:48] * Datalink (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:48] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:48] * Datalink (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:49] <espitz> shiftplusone, have you played with overclocking much?
[6:49] * n13z (~iosick@unaffiliated/n13z) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:49] <shiftplusone> Not properly, but I do run mine at 1GHz
[6:49] <espitz> do you use anything to cool, passive or active?
[6:50] <shiftplusone> Nuh, definitely not.
[6:50] * trickyhero (~Deitrick@d4-50-215-4.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:50] <espitz> I cant get mine to run stably at 1GHz
[6:50] <espitz> it's in a case with no method of cooling though
[6:50] <espitz> thought that might be an issue
[6:50] <shiftplusone> likely not a temperature issue but just a general stability thing.
[6:50] * msodrew (~msodrew@cpe-66-65-120-56.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: msodrew)
[6:50] <shiftplusone> What do you get when you run vcgencmd measure_temp when it's becoming unstable?
[6:51] <espitz> havent tried honestly
[6:51] <espitz> I just backed down to 900 and left i there
[6:51] <espitz> ordered some copper pin fin heatsinks for the voltage regulator, NIC and SoC
[6:52] <espitz> thought I'd try again when they arrive
[6:52] <espitz> I've seen reports of people overclocking to ridiculous level with passive or active cooling
[6:52] <shiftplusone> espitz, you know the SoC is under the RAM chip, right?
[6:52] <espitz> 1200MHz ARM
[6:54] <espitz> let me rephrase... I ordered a 14x14x10mm copper pin fin heatsink for the broadcom chip - whatever that has on/under it :)
[6:54] <shiftplusone> those are ahm.... cosmetic.
[6:55] <shiftplusone> but let me know how you go with it. I'd like to see an objective comparison of the temperatures.
[6:55] <espitz> and smaller ones for the VR and ethernet controller
[6:55] * Besoffen is now known as JMichaelX
[6:55] <espitz> why are they cosmetic?
[6:56] <espitz> it certainly gets warm to the touch
[6:56] <espitz> I'd have to imagine it will lower the temp by at least a few degrees... but I'm hoping more
[6:57] <shiftplusone> because it goes on the RAM rather than the chip you actually want to cool. Try using some cardboard instead of thermal paste on your desktop and see how you go.
[6:57] <shiftplusone> a few degrees, yeah
[6:57] <espitz> I assume with overvolt settings, the heat will increase, even on the ram
[6:58] <espitz> am i nuts?
[6:58] <shiftplusone> I say do some experimenting
[6:58] <espitz> lol @ cardboard
[6:58] <espitz> you know the first time I ever installed my own heatsink on a PC
[6:58] * rihnapstor (~rihnapsto@unaffiliated/rihnapstor) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:58] <espitz> I didnt use thermal paste - I didnt know
[6:58] <espitz> chip fried in 45 seconds
[6:58] <shiftplusone> The people who designed the hardware are against the heatsinks and insist they are not require and ineffective. I say that if you really need cooling for silly overclocking, use a fan (ont he underside of the pi)
[6:59] <shiftplusone> jesus... I didn't know thermal paste made that much of a difference >_<
[6:59] <espitz> it definitely does
[6:59] <espitz> that was probably a PII CPU I did that too
[6:59] <espitz> but I dont know anymore
[6:59] <espitz> it was so long ago
[7:00] <shiftplusone> I used to leave old dried up thermal paste the CPU without re-applying new paste and didn't run into any issues.
[7:00] <espitz> haha
[7:01] <espitz> I do overclock everything
[7:01] <shiftplusone> about to put max load on the CPU and log the temp at 1GHz
[7:01] <espitz> I'm against arbitrary limits :)
[7:01] * rihnapstor (~rihnapsto@unaffiliated/rihnapstor) Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:01] <PRC-1989_> @shiftplusone, I'm very sorry for the stupid question, but what parts should I touch to measure the F3?
[7:01] <shiftplusone> the opposite sides of it.
[7:01] <PRC-1989_> I'm touching the metallic parts on the back of the board that are in a rectangle that say F3 next to it
[7:02] <PRC-1989_> But can't get any reading
[7:02] <espitz> shiftplusone - maybe old thermal paste is good enough. I mean the idea is just to have maximum contact between sink and chip, so that little (or preferably no) air can get between
[7:03] <shiftplusone> are you getting 0 or what?
[7:03] <PRC-1989_> 0
[7:03] <PRC-1989_> And momentarily 0.16 when I wobble it around a bit.
[7:03] <shiftplusone> .16 is highish, but not enough to justify such a low voltage.
[7:03] <natewalck> is it worth OCing the pi?
[7:04] <PRC-1989_> Sooo,,,, what does rhat mean?
[7:04] <shiftplusone> natewalck, depends. Makes the GUI a bit smoother. Good for emulators and such as well. But overall... not really.
[7:04] <natewalck> Are there any Web Browsers that work fully accelerated?
[7:04] <natewalck> and HTML5, etc?
[7:04] <shiftplusone> PRC-1989_, what does what mean, sorry?
[7:04] <PRC-1989_> the 0.16 reading
[7:04] <shiftplusone> natewalck, not properly released yet, but there is one available for testing. Called 'web'.
[7:05] <PRC-1989_> Is that an indication that the wire is broken?
[7:05] <PRC-1989_> Or the polyfuse?
[7:05] <natewalck> Hrmm
[7:05] <PRC-1989_> Or the supply?
[7:05] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:05] <natewalck> Heck, it would be nice to have a boot to full screen browser
[7:05] <natewalck> tbh
[7:05] <natewalck> chrome book-esqe
[7:05] <shiftplusone> PRC-1989_, not too much. The polyfuse will have some resistance associated with it, so it's just the voltage drop across that resistance.
[7:05] * Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:06] <PRC-1989_> Anything else I can test?
[7:06] <shiftplusone> espitz, seems like at 100% CPU load at 1GHz it settles at 60C (in a case)... will depend on ambient temperature 'course.
[7:06] * Alina-malina (Alina-mali@unaffiliated/alina-malina) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:06] <espitz> that's not bad
[7:06] * Somasis (somasis@fluttershy.is.best.pony.rcfreak0.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:06] <shiftplusone> not at all... quite cold.
[7:06] <espitz> I'm sure it can sustain 85C or so - at least short term - before you have an actual failure
[7:07] <shiftplusone> espitz, it will go to stock clock rates before that happens.
[7:07] * Guest95439 (dan64@dannyadam.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:07] <shiftplusone> to cool itself down
[7:07] <shiftplusone> unless you override that
[7:07] <espitz> did not know that
[7:07] * piney0 (piney0@unaffiliated/piney0) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:07] * tapout (~tapout@unaffiliated/tapout) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:07] * peejay (peejay@hive76/member/peejay) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:07] * ring0 (ring0@unaffiliated/ring0) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:07] <espitz> oh yeah,,, I have seen that setting mentioned in a forum somewhere
[7:08] <shiftplusone> espitz, sorry, my mistake. that happens AT 85
[7:08] * joshskidmore (~joshskidm@chat.josh.sc) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:08] <SirLagz> PRC-1989_: how did you go ? sorry had to go to a meeting
[7:09] <espitz> I used to run my laptop GPU up to about 93C. heavily overclocked and playing EVE online... it would get so hot at the bottom, I couldnt sit it on my lap
[7:09] <shiftplusone> eep
[7:09] * rihnapstor (~rihnapsto@unaffiliated/rihnapstor) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:09] <rihnapstor> hello
[7:10] <espitz> and the plastic cover over the GPU card started to change color after several months of that
[7:10] <shiftplusone> woo... peaked at temp=61.6'C
[7:10] <espitz> but it never failed
[7:10] * Turingi (~devon@unaffiliated/devon-hillard/x-7250961) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:10] <shiftplusone> I suppose I should play a video on the gpu at the same time
[7:10] <espitz> heat sinks arent going to hurt... so I'll test temps with and without
[7:10] <SirLagz> when it changes colour, that's when you should stop using it so much :P
[7:12] <espitz> I've heard people say they can run the ARM at 1000-1200MHz, 500MHz core, 500MHz ram, +8V/+6V overvolt on CPU/RAM
[7:12] <espitz> not sure if that was with active cooling or what
[7:12] <espitz> but I'm determined to find out :)
[7:12] <SirLagz> active cooling doesn't do as much for ARM cpus as people think it does
[7:12] <SirLagz> according to some of the people who made it
[7:13] <[Saint]> it does in this case when you need to keep it below 85C to keep the OC up
[7:13] <shiftplusone> so far I've only noticed that the pi doesn't work when I go above 450MHz SDRAM
[7:13] <[Saint]> but, thats just silly.
[7:13] <rihnapstor> guys my end user app goes like this.. flask web app. restful web service outputs json.now I am interested in providing bidirectional communication support between end user and raspbery pi.(through web sockets). so should I initialize user page with executable js script to restful web service ?
[7:13] <SirLagz> [Saint]: i wouldn't know, i dont OC my Pi lol
[7:14] <[Saint]> I stopped trying ages ago.
[7:14] <[Saint]> I tried pushing it for fun initially just to see what they can do.
[7:14] <shiftplusone> so... loading the CPU and GPU at the same time doesn't affect temperature that much here... +7C at 1GHz
[7:14] <espitz> I dont think it's silly
[7:14] <[Saint]> But it depends on the individual board a LOT
[7:14] <espitz> I use mine as an emulator for all kinds of games
[7:14] <espitz> some need the OC to play properly
[7:15] <[Saint]> I have one pi that just absolutely will not run stable at even 1GHz
[7:15] <espitz> mine wont right now
[7:15] <[Saint]> let alone any higher.
[7:15] <espitz> 900MHz is best I can do
[7:15] <espitz> I have GPU at 350MHz
[7:15] <[Saint]> I can do 1.2 reasonably reliably on one pi.
[7:16] <shiftplusone> [Saint], do you think temperature has an affect there. There was some guy insisting that the pi becomes unstable due to temperature, rather than the actual clock rate itself.
[7:16] <espitz> no overvolt
[7:16] * rcombs (~rcombs@rcombs.me) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:16] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@2.121.116.249) Quit ()
[7:16] * M4dH4TT3r (~M4dH4TT3R@unaffiliated/m4dh4tt3r) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:16] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: not in my case at least.
[7:16] * DBordello (~DBordello@unaffiliated/dbordello) Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:17] <[Saint]> at 1GHz and under I rarely break 54°C, and we know they're fine with higher temps.
[7:17] <shiftplusone> Yeah, didn't think so. He kept insisting the pi is very sensitive to temperature. Took a while to get out of him that he never actually checked the temperature and only assumed that he can't overclock much due to the temp rise
[7:17] <[Saint]> :)
[7:18] <[Saint]> the problem is "I felt the chip, it feels hot"
[7:18] <[Saint]> When "hot" to a human is ~45C
[7:19] <shiftplusone> espitz was guilty of that one just then >_<
[7:19] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: who was this person who insisted the pi is sensitive to temperature ?
[7:19] <shiftplusone> SirLagz, a guy in #raspbian about a month back. Don't remember the nick.
[7:19] <SirLagz> I'm pretty sure James and Dom ? maybe Gert ? I don't remember, but they said something along the lines of the warmer the better for the Pi lol
[7:19] <SirLagz> up to a certain point anyway
[7:19] <PRC-1989_> SirLagz, the reading was 3.92
[7:19] <SirLagz> PRC-1989_: that's very very bad
[7:19] * sco` (~ross2@unaffiliated/sco/x-3425046) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:20] <PRC-1989_> I also measured voltage accross F3 - 0.10
[7:20] * rihnapstor (~rihnapsto@unaffiliated/rihnapstor) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[7:20] <espitz> haha... I didnt say it was hot
[7:21] <[Saint]> That, and people dont usually realize that their phones (if modern) will far exceed those temperatures and not only has no cooling, but is encased in a densely populated shell with a huge battery producing heat as well.
[7:21] <espitz> I said warm
[7:21] <SirLagz> across F3 as in TP2 - F3 ?
[7:21] <espitz> I was only implying that if there's some heat, a heatsink will reduce it
[7:21] <[Saint]> and a massive LCD...
[7:21] <PRC-1989_> On the back the f3 rectangle
[7:21] <SirLagz> measure either side of F3 to TP2 and see if there's difference
[7:21] <[Saint]> people never seem to think their phones need cooling :)
[7:21] <espitz> and I'm at a whopping 54.6C with CPU at full load
[7:21] <shiftplusone> SirLagz, polyfuse (F3)
[7:21] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: yep, i got that bit :)
[7:22] <SirLagz> [Saint]: i think my phone needs cooling at times. hence why i chuck it in front of my air con vent :D
[7:22] <espitz> at 900MHz
[7:22] <shiftplusone> SirLagz, ah right. misread your question. He measured directly across it.
[7:22] * opcode (astra@genuine.advantage.wind0ws.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:22] <[Saint]> espitz: "whopping" was sarcastic, right?
[7:22] <espitz> yes
[7:22] <espitz> sarcasm... thought it was obvious... sorry
[7:22] <[Saint]> Good. Just checking. :)
[7:22] <SirLagz> haha
[7:23] * malcom2073 (~quassel@unaffiliated/malcom2073) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[7:23] * malcom2073 (~quassel@unaffiliated/malcom2073) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:23] <espitz> not sure how I can test the temp at 1000MHz... it rarely even makes it to prompt
[7:23] <espitz> but I think the 54.6C is proof it's not a heat issue
[7:24] <shiftplusone> espitz, are you changing any of the other clocks?
[7:24] <espitz> yes
[7:24] <espitz> GPU
[7:24] <espitz> and SDRAM
[7:24] <shiftplusone> how much?
[7:25] <espitz> let me check what I have it at now... I dont recall where I settled
[7:25] <[Saint]> just use the foundation OC tool in rpi-config
[7:26] <[Saint]> if you're not breaking 1GB you don't need to poke anything else at all.
[7:26] <[Saint]> *GHz
[7:26] <espitz> arm_freq=900
[7:26] <espitz> gpu_freq=275
[7:26] <shiftplusone> the foundation tool doesn't do 1GHz for me
[7:26] <espitz> core_freq=250
[7:26] <espitz> avoid_pwm_pll=1
[7:26] <espitz> sdram_freq=500
[7:26] <espitz> over_voltage=2
[7:26] * Onoz (~Onoz@172.245.142.145) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:27] <espitz> turbo in raspi-config does not work for me - rarely if ever even makes it through bootup
[7:27] <[Saint]> I would've sent this back.
[7:27] <espitz> haha
[7:27] <[Saint]> At least my wonky one works until I push it.
[7:27] <PRC-1989_> SirLagz, there is a 0.10 difference
[7:28] <PRC-1989_> 4.00 and 3.90
[7:28] <[Saint]> And no, seriously.
[7:28] <espitz> 900Mhz works ok for my purposes
[7:28] <[Saint]> This sounds defective.
[7:28] <espitz> it;s the GPU I really need to increase
[7:29] <[Saint]> If it can't even boot with settings it allows out of the tin, i would've sent it back.
[7:29] <[Saint]> manufacturing defect.
[7:29] <[Saint]> "instability" is expected. somewhat.
[7:30] <espitz> I'm going to fiddle and see if I cant find a working combination
[7:30] <[Saint]> but instability and not being able to get through a boot at all are different things to me.
[7:30] <espitz> If i could get GPU to 350MHz or so, that might be good enough
[7:30] <espitz> yeah I agree
[7:30] <espitz> its not really instability
[7:30] * [Saint] doesn't think increasing anything is the answer here.
[7:30] <espitz> its no ability :)
[7:30] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[7:31] <espitz> I found an odd combination that someone posted on forum... had ARM at 930 MHz... that seemed to work ok at first... but after playing some games and stuff it started to freeze up
[7:32] <espitz> I've yet to corrupt an SD card (which people seem to do a lot when overclocking), but we'll see how it goes
[7:34] <espitz> the other odd thing I've noticed at 1GHz raspi-config setting... if I unplug HDMI cable, it boots and runs fine
[7:34] <espitz> I can SSH into it no problem
[7:34] <espitz> doesnt seem like anything is wrong
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[7:39] <shiftplusone> Gr... the sd card slot that's meant to match the original one's footprint doesn't line up >=/
[7:40] <espitz> on a case you mean?
[7:40] * redarrow (~redarrow@unaffiliated/redarrow) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[7:40] <shiftplusone> nuh, the pads don't line up with the pins
[7:40] <espitz> oh
[7:42] <natewalck> woot! Cobbler = soldered!
[7:43] <shiftplusone> natewalck, make sure you connect it up the right way. Someone kept shorting his pi out because he connected the cobbler upside down >_<
[7:43] <natewalck> you mean the GPIO cable?
[7:43] <shiftplusone> aye
[7:43] <natewalck> For sure!
[7:43] <natewalck> pin 1 towards the SD card
[7:44] <natewalck> and the cobbler has an outline for the socket
[7:44] <natewalck> love this T cobbler
[7:44] * \\Mr_C\\ (~mrc@108-233-229-93.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: .)
[7:45] <natewalck> nite!
[7:47] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Quit: Mikelevel)
[7:48] <devslash> i cant figure out what to do with my pi
[7:49] * kwrazi (~kwrazi@220-245-146-175.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:51] * \mSg_mini (mSg@unaffiliated/msg/x-4576342) has joined #raspberrypi
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[7:51] <espitz> mine bitcoins... lol
[7:52] <devslash> i thought that you need a powerful system for that
[7:52] <Sudsey> any system
[7:52] <Sudsey> it'll just be slow on a pi haha
[7:52] <espitz> not anymore really
[7:52] <espitz> CPU and GPU mining are antequated
[7:53] <espitz> but you can join a bitmining pool
[7:53] <espitz> and share with others
[7:54] <devslash> how long on average would it take to mine 1 bitcoin ?
[7:54] * \mSg (mSg@unaffiliated/msg/x-4576342) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:54] * \mSg_mini is now known as \mSg
[7:55] <espitz> it's sort of random, but on average, a very long time :)
[7:55] <devslash> yea thats what i thought
[7:55] <devslash> not worth it
[7:55] <espitz> no not at all
[7:55] <djoot> millennia...
[7:55] <espitz> but neither is a dormant pie
[7:55] <devslash> i dont trust bitcoin
[7:56] <PRC-1989_> Bitcoin don't trust you either.
[7:57] <espitz> ok so you've turned down the gaming console idea and the media center idea...
[7:57] <espitz> maybe you need something with more tinkering?
[7:57] <espitz> An RC vehicle
[7:57] <espitz> controlled by your android phone
[7:58] <espitz> more programming? a web server maybe?
[7:58] * mrkurtz (mrkurtz@cpe-76-183-112-224.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[7:58] <devslash> i was thinking of something more web based maybe and not hardware
[7:58] <espitz> need a file/print server?
[7:59] <devslash> i ran a web server to stream music but dont use it any more
[7:59] <devslash> since my external drive was going bad
[7:59] <devslash> i can turn it back on
[8:00] <devslash> if i have a need to but i cant think of any uses for a web server
[8:00] <espitz> you could try out http://www.raspyfi.com/raspyfi-1-0-audiophile-linux-is-out/
[8:01] <espitz> if you want to use your pie as a streaming music server, so to speak
[8:01] <devslash> im using google play music
[8:01] <devslash> they have bandwidth thats pretty fast
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[8:03] <espitz> you could make it into a web cam server... have a constant eye on your house... lol
[8:03] <devslash> yea
[8:03] <devslash> if it works with my existing usb cam
[8:03] <espitz> a VPN server
[8:04] * Somasis (somasis@fluttershy.is.best.pony.rcfreak0.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:04] <devslash> if i already pay for a vpn service, how would a vpn server help me ?
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[8:05] <espitz> it'd be free?
[8:05] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:05] <espitz> i dunno... I'm just throwing ideas out there
[8:05] <shiftplusone> aha... soldered the replacement sd slot on =)
[8:05] <espitz> how about a private cloud server?
[8:05] <shiftplusone> turned out it was upside down. so I had to bend the pins back the other way
[8:06] <shiftplusone> and now the pi boots... =)
[8:06] <espitz> there's decent software for that out there: ownCloud
[8:06] <shiftplusone> owncloud is painfully slow on the pi
[8:06] <devslash> i used owncloud
[8:06] <devslash> yea
[8:07] <devslash> that was my experience as well
[8:07] <devslash> have you guys head of tresorit
[8:07] <espitz> yes
[8:07] <espitz> seems like you have an "if I can pay for it, why use my pi" attitude... lol
[8:08] <devslash> pretty good . and encrypted
[8:08] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:08] <devslash> lol no not really. the only service you mentioned that i pay for is the vpn
[8:08] <espitz> I thought tresorit was pay as well?
[8:09] <espitz> or is it just limited if you dont pay?
[8:09] <espitz> ahh yes I see... free to a cetain limit
[8:09] <devslash> i think it works like dropbox. you get a certain amount for free
[8:09] <espitz> 5GB
[8:09] <devslash> yea
[8:09] <devslash> theres a russian site that gives you 1 TB of free space
[8:10] <devslash> i wouldnt use it for anything sensitive on it but i can encrypt it first
[8:10] <devslash> and 1 TB is a lot of space
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[8:12] <espitz> more than I need for sure
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[8:13] <devslash> you can store a lot of porn, err cat pictures and memes with 1 TB
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[8:42] * Noodlewitt (~Noodlewit@r49-3-0-137.cpe.vividwireless.net.au) Quit (Quit: Noodlewitt)
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[8:47] * KindOne (KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:47] * owen_ (~owen@180.200.152.222) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[8:51] * KindOne (KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:51] * cul (~cul@haldus.korkad.nu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[9:58] * frank2e (~frank2e@95-91-255-42-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: Let's see what happens if I try that other shiny button...)
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[10:01] * turtlehat (~offmode@91.100.23.194.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:01] <turtlehat> 7j teensy
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[10:15] * FailedState is now known as JMichaelX
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[10:29] <monkers> hai
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[11:49] <monkers> on the subject of faster video streaming... what if i made a network share on a webserver, and had raspistill or raspivid write to the network share (as opposed to streaming over rtmp).
[11:49] <monkers> i wonder if that'd be better, or just more overheard
[11:49] <monkers> overhead
[11:50] <neilr> Depends on the protocol you use to access the share. If you're using Samba for example, I would guess there's more overhead. I can't prove this, but that's my instinct.
[11:51] <monkers> could i avoid disk i/o alltogether by just streaming and then rebroadcasting?
[11:52] <monkers> i guess that would be best
[11:52] <pksato> ffmpeg streammer server?
[11:53] * dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:53] <monkers> not really sure
[11:54] <monkers> there are some good links on streaming to an internet streaming service, but, i just want to use an ubuntu webserver.
[11:54] <monkers> just need like, super low delay
[11:54] * omniscient (~omniscien@CPE-110-149-125-114.vwl9.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:55] <pksato> super low delay? A analog tv camera and VHF/UHF/ATV trasmiter. :)
[11:55] <monkers> haha
[11:55] <monkers> yah
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[12:11] <monkers> K i'm gonna try example #7 - http://www.linux-projects.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=16
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[12:18] <Bozza> Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a dial up modem emulator?
[12:19] <Bozza> Instead of using a hardware modem , I am trying to find a software modem
[12:21] <pksato> why?
[12:22] * azeam (~azeam@unaffiliated/azeam) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[12:23] * manta (~manta@97-86-242-63.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:23] <Bozza> pksato a virtual modem is probably the keyword I am looking for
[12:24] * PRC-1989_ (462662e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.38.98.231) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[12:24] <Bozza> Pksato this is a bit of a silly thought
[12:24] <Bozza> pksato: it could be used to make a peer to peer connection between two rPIs
[12:24] <Bozza> Without using the Internet
[12:25] <Bozza> And sending small amount of data over cellular
[12:25] <pksato> Internet or ethernet?
[12:25] <pksato> two pi is on same place?
[12:26] * Ogion_ (~Ogion@9.Red-83-36-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:26] <pksato> ssh can be used to make a ppp tunel.
[12:27] * azeam (~azeam@unaffiliated/azeam) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:29] * kwrazi (~kwrazi@220-245-146-175.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[12:30] <Bozza> Pksato two different locations
[12:30] <Bozza> I was thinking to connect the PIs through a mobile network
[12:30] <Bozza> But not IP
[12:31] <Bozza> A normal voice call
[12:31] * Ogion_ (~Ogion@9.Red-83-36-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:31] <Bozza> I realise this probably won't get me 56k speeds, but I am sure it should work
[12:33] <Bozza> Hence why I am trying to find some sort of virtual dial up modem
[12:33] * manta (~manta@97-86-242-63.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:33] <pksato> Bozza: most cell phone have a bultin modem. can connect to dial up isp or to 3G network.
[12:33] * JMichaelX (~james@unaffiliated/jmichaelx) Quit (Quit: í gegnum göngin, finn ég ró)
[12:33] <Bozza> Pksato the reason why I don't want to use a "data connection" is because they're very expensive
[12:34] <Bozza> pksato: I've got a tarif where two SIM cards can call each other for free
[12:34] <Bozza> But only through a voice call
[12:34] <pksato> or, cat try sound card modem. soundmodem.
[12:35] <pksato> and, can dial to other cell phone.
[12:35] <Bozza> Is there a virtual modem equivalent that runs in software? Those modems are ancient .. I am sure a CPU would be able to handle it
[12:36] <pksato> and use virtual connection?
[12:36] <Bozza> If I do find a usb 56 k modem .. The problem would be routing it through gsm .. Since those usually connect straight to your phone line
[12:36] <pksato> find a cell phone with modem. (most old gsm have)
[12:36] <azeam> am I really the only one having constant problems upgrading the firmware on my RPi? Every time I've upgraded in the last year and a half, I can no longer boot, the only way is to copy old (backed up) files from the boot partition, after upgrading again some files won't be there (in the boot partition, at least this time it's the bootcode.bin missing) and/or it simply won't boot. I'm only upgrading through the main Raspbian repository (raspberrypi-bo
[12:36] <azeam> otloader, using apt-get), if it would be possible to find the files for the current stable firmware it would be easy to just copy the files from there but all I'm able to find is the unstable repository (https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware) so I'm forced to use the old backed up files, which now no longer seem to work very well either...
[12:37] <pksato> some need a hardware modification.
[12:37] <Bozza> Pksato is there really no such thing as a software modem?
[12:38] * chunkyhead (~kromo@unaffiliated/chunkyhead) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[12:39] <pksato> Bozza: software modem that use that hardware to connector to real world?
[12:39] <pksato> search for soundmodem
[12:39] <Bozza> Remember the 56 k modems that made those nice sounds?
[12:40] <Bozza> I am looking for a software that can do everything a 56k modem can do
[12:40] <Bozza> But on the CPU
[12:40] <ShorTie> that was just a speaker that could be turned off
[12:40] * Bozza face palms
[12:40] <Bozza> That isn't the point
[12:41] <Bozza> I am looking for a translation software that can translate those sounds
[12:41] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:41] <Bozza> That can modulate and demodulate them
[12:41] <pksato> soundmodem
[12:41] <Bozza> Ahh ok
[12:41] <ShorTie> and it would most likely be easier to dial with clicks instead of tones
[12:41] <Bozza> :)
[12:42] <ShorTie> like the old rotary phones
[12:42] <Bozza> Shortie the bandwidth on a mobile voice channel is much smaller than on a landline connection
[12:42] <Bozza> So the quality would be flakey
[12:42] * trickyhero (~Deitrick@d4-50-215-4.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:43] <Bozza> But any connection would be impressive
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[12:44] * Shy (~Shy@pdpc/supporter/bronze/shy) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[12:47] * monkers (~monkers@unaffiliated/monkeypaws) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[12:47] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p4237-ipbf1805souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:48] <amigojapan> hey guys, I got a 404 error on apt-get, a 404.... I heard someone complain here earlier and it got fixed apparently by someone here.... if so, please help
[12:49] <Bozza> http://youtu.be/XW9Ln0ZHaFM
[12:49] <Bozza> RaspberryPi with sound modem! It actually works!
[12:49] <Bozza> That is cool
[12:49] <pksato> amigojapan: try apt-get update
[12:50] <amigojapan> ok pksato
[12:51] <amigojapan> ok, it is downloading stuff, I will let it run
[12:51] <Bozza> Exciting stuff at 1:59
[12:51] <amigojapan> Bozza: it is 8:51PM for me
[12:52] <Bozza> I mean 1min 59 seconds in the YouTube video
[12:52] <amigojapan> ah ok
[12:55] <amigojapan> hehehe nice Bozza , pretty nostalgic
[12:55] <Bozza> :)
[12:55] <amigojapan> Bozza: I had a friend that tested to see if his BBS had not frozzen by faking the sound of a modem with his voice
[12:55] <Bozza> Cool! Hahah did it work?
[12:55] <amigojapan> yes Bozza
[12:56] <Bozza> Nice
[12:56] <Bozza> Very nice XD that is incredible
[12:56] <amigojapan> yep
[12:56] <Bozza> Literally speaking with a computer and getting a response
[12:57] <amigojapan> yep :)
[12:57] <amigojapan> Bozza: it was (if I recall correctly) a 2400MBPS modem, which had a pretty simple sound
[12:58] <Kemosabe> beep boop doboop
[12:58] <Kemosabe> EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
[12:58] <Kemosabe> rnkgnongnnggkgk
[12:58] <amigojapan> right Kemosabe
[12:58] <Kemosabe> WELL THEN DON'T ACTIVATE MY TRAP CARD
[12:58] <Bozza> Still. Those are quite the skills
[12:58] <Bozza> XD
[12:58] <amigojapan> Kemosabe: Bozza : if you did not get hte rnkgnongnnggkgk the computer was frozen and only teh modem was answering
[12:59] <Bozza> Hack the planet by beeping and bopping
[12:59] <Bozza> amigojapan: ahh ok , makes sense
[12:59] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:59] <Kemosabe> my friend, who didn't have internet
[12:59] <Kemosabe> used to call his home from work
[12:59] <Kemosabe> and then do dialup over the phone
[12:59] <Bozza> I wounded how much baud a cellular voice call can hold
[13:00] <Bozza> Wonder*
[13:00] <amigojapan> Kemosabe: that is pretty smart
[13:00] * kwrazi (~kwrazi@220-245-146-175.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] <Kemosabe> he made some little boxes
[13:00] <Kemosabe> so it would actually play all the dialup musics through a phoneline
[13:00] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] <Kemosabe> into a microphone n speaker deal
[13:00] <Bozza> His p
[13:00] <Bozza> His home phone was hooked up to the computer at the time Kemosabe?
[13:01] <Kemosabe> sort of
[13:01] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:01] <amigojapan> Bozza: I guess he had a BBS running at his home, which then allowed him to telnet or something
[13:01] <Bozza> Ahh ok cool. :)
[13:02] <Bozza> That is incredible
[13:02] <Bozza> The idea of sending data over acoustic / analog lines
[13:03] <Kemosabe> he set up an acoustic modem
[13:03] <Kemosabe> on either end
[13:03] <Kemosabe> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Analogue_modem_-_acoustic_coupler.jpg
[13:03] <Bozza> That is like using a delivery pigeon with a usb stick
[13:03] <Kemosabe> like this shit
[13:03] <Bozza> Wow, those are super retro
[13:04] <Kemosabe> yeah he put on on either end of a regular phone call
[13:04] <Kemosabe> and then used his work internet at home
[13:04] <Bozza> Was fortunate enough to grow up with dial up but real Internet
[13:04] <Kemosabe> man i had dial up as a kid
[13:04] <Kemosabe> but then we got broadband
[13:05] <amigojapan> Kemosabe: you must be younger than me.... I am 35....
[13:05] <Bozza> But did you ever have per Internet dial up?
[13:05] <Kemosabe> i am 21
[13:05] <pksato> Bozza: http://bellard.org/linmodem.html
[13:05] <Bozza> pre*
[13:05] <amigojapan> but I did used to live in Mexico which got stuff somewhat late
[13:05] <Kemosabe> i am australia
[13:05] * felipealmeida (~user@179.210.237.70) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:05] <Kemosabe> australia is like going back in time to the 80s
[13:05] <amigojapan> Kemosabe: sorry, I forgot I turned 36 recently :)
[13:05] <Kemosabe> we still have woolworths and racism
[13:06] <Bozza> Pksato: thank you so much !!!! Those are the droids I am looking for !!!!!!!
[13:06] <Bozza> Been looking for hours now , and couldn't find anything
[13:06] * superdump (~rob@unaffiliated/superdump) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[13:06] * ryanteck (~ryan@fsf/member/Ryanteck) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] <Bozza> At least you have kangaroos down there :)
[13:07] <amigojapan> and Koalas
[13:07] <Kemosabe> i love kangaroos
[13:07] <Kemosabe> they're delicious
[13:07] <amigojapan> hahaha
[13:07] <Kemosabe> and fuck are they fun to hunt
[13:07] <Bozza> xD
[13:07] <Kemosabe> shifty little fuckers
[13:07] <Kemosabe> no seriously
[13:07] <pksato> Bozza: just need to know correct keywords. :)
[13:07] <Kemosabe> kangaroo meat
[13:07] <Kemosabe> fucking amazing
[13:07] <Kemosabe> its like beef
[13:07] <Kemosabe> but beefier
[13:07] <Kemosabe> and also gamier
[13:08] <Kemosabe> but not too gamey like deer
[13:08] <Kemosabe> and its super lean
[13:08] <Kemosabe> and super tender
[13:08] <Bozza> pksato: that is it .. I started with modem emulator. Which brought me to loads of sites that emulated how slowly a picture would load
[13:08] <Bozza> Or what not
[13:08] <amigojapan> hmmm, I dont think I like gamie
[13:08] <Kemosabe> i shoot the fuckers, hack off a leg and throw it straight on the rotissirary, still warm
[13:08] <Kemosabe> and the skin keeps all the juices in
[13:08] * superdump (~rob@unaffiliated/superdump) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:09] <amigojapan> Kemosabe: I never heard of someone cooking withought skinning animals first.....
[13:09] <amigojapan> but I am a city boy :)
[13:09] * alejandroc (~alejandro@gateway.netasq.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:10] <Bozza> Are they actually tasty? XD
[13:10] <Bozza> Want to try one now
[13:10] <Kemosabe> they are
[13:10] <Kemosabe> the best meat i've ever had
[13:10] <Kemosabe> and i have cobe in japan
[13:11] <Kemosabe> *have had
[13:11] <amigojapan> Kemosabe: I think Japanese meat is over rated though
[13:11] <Bozza> Apparently Australians do have some Kobe like beef
[13:11] * azerus (~badass@unaffiliated/badass) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:12] <Bozza> You know , where they give the cows the whole wellness program
[13:12] <Kemosabe> waygu
[13:12] <Kemosabe> 1000 day grainfed waygu beef
[13:12] <Kemosabe> all free range kinda shit
[13:13] <Kemosabe> we also have our own little unique beef
[13:13] <Kemosabe> like our angus
[13:13] <Kemosabe> anyway apb
[13:13] <Kemosabe> no idea
[13:13] <Kemosabe> ask 4chan
[13:13] <Bozza> I had some imported Australian beef before
[13:14] <Bozza> It must have been waygu I think
[13:14] <Bozza> They said the cows get massages and what not
[13:14] <Bozza> But it was goo d
[13:15] <amigojapan> Kemosabe: I wont pay the price they ask for wagyuu
[13:15] <amigojapan> I ratehr just eat american beef ,,, quantity over quality
[13:16] * jkridner (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:17] <Bozza> Yea the steaks are at least 100 usd/eur/gbp
[13:17] <Bozza> But tasty
[13:17] <Kemosabe> oh all cows get massages and shit
[13:18] <Bozza> The cows get "happy endings" :3
[13:18] * amigojapan eats his sushi
[13:18] <Bozza> Why is sushi so expensive? Isn't sushi a food for the ordinary people?
[13:19] <Bozza> When there wasn't much rice / fish for everyone?
[13:19] <amigojapan> Bozza: I got 12 pieces of sushi for 500yen, about 5 dollars
[13:19] <Bozza> Very tasty though!
[13:19] <Bozza> Nice! :!
[13:19] <Bozza> In the west you have to pay a lot , and it is hard to find good quality sushi
[13:20] <Bozza> Also real wasabi is nearly impossible to find
[13:20] <Kemosabe> pigdog canadians
[13:20] <amigojapan> Bozza: hmmm, I think most sushi shops are also expensive in Japan, I went to a cheap one
[13:20] <Bozza> amigojapan: have you ever had blowfish?
[13:21] <amigojapan> Bozza: no, but my wife sends her father blowfish miso soup as a present many times a year
[13:21] <Kemosabe> amigojapan: where are you from
[13:21] * amigojapan is Mexican but has lived in Japan for 11 years
[13:22] <Bozza> :D does he eat it?
[13:22] <Kemosabe> nigga you weird
[13:22] <Kemosabe> g2g
[13:22] <amigojapan> yeah, he eats it
[13:22] <amigojapan> tc Kemosabe
[13:23] <Bozza> Fugu
[13:23] <Bozza> That is the fish I am thinking if
[13:23] <amigojapan> right
[13:23] <Bozza> Of
[13:24] <amigojapan> my father in law likes it
[13:24] <Bozza> Does your wife eat it?
[13:24] <Bozza> Is it scary to eat?
[13:24] <amigojapan> she said she ate it on her sisters wedding
[13:25] <amigojapan> she said it is not at all. in Japan it is normal.... and usually the people that die is cause they had it prepared by someone that does not have a licence to prepare fugu.....
[13:25] <Bozza> Haha it sounds quite risky eating it
[13:25] <Bozza> Man
[13:25] <Bozza> Maybe let the cook eat some first?
[13:25] <amigojapan> she says she ate fugu sashimi, and it did not have much taste
[13:25] <Bozza> But if the cook makes one mistake
[13:26] <amigojapan> lol
[13:26] <Bozza> Brb
[13:26] <amigojapan> ok
[13:27] <amigojapan> pksato: btw, it worked after update, thanks :)
[13:28] * bizarro_1 (~bizarro_1@145.Red-193-153-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:34] <pksato> amigojapan: de nada.
[13:34] <amigojapan> gracias :)
[13:37] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[13:41] * kzard (~kzard@41-134-83-186.dsl.mweb.co.za) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/ | 64bit Windows version by http://kvirc.d00p.de/)
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[13:44] <napos> Bozza: But if the cook makes one mistake \n Bozza: Brb
[13:44] <napos> ironically no, you won't be right back :D
[13:44] * Mr_P (~gerhard@chello080108255018.3.14.vie.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:45] <amigojapan> napos: well, brb can also mean, be back later :)
[13:45] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:45] * MrThePlague (~v4x@unaffiliated/v4x) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:45] <amigojapan> or "going AFK", I often do it too
[13:45] <napos> depends on wether you believe in reincarnation, then :p
[13:46] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:47] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:47] <napos> fugu.. one mistake.. brb.. eh nvm, my mind is weird
[13:48] <amigojapan> napos: I doubt he went to eat fugu
[13:48] * jef79m (~jef79m@124-168-151-14.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[13:48] <amigojapan> but my raspberry pi has not come back yet since I asked it to restore an mysqldumped file that is about 50MB big :(
[13:50] * MrThePlague (~v4x@unaffiliated/v4x) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:50] <amigojapan> I wonder if querrying that database will take long, I had not calculated this
[13:52] <amigojapan> hmmm, it does seem to take a while to execute the querry, I hope it is not too slow, cause this is an ajax program.... no use if it will take forever to autocomplete the typing :(
[13:52] <amigojapan> oh well, I will try it out anyway
[13:53] * jef79m (~jef79m@124-168-151-14.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:14] <amigojapan> ok, the performance of mysql on that database does not seem to be so bad after all :)
[14:16] * M4dH4TT3r (~M4dH4TT3r@unaffiliated/m4dh4tt3r) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:16] <M4dH4TT3r> can rpii boot from usb?
[14:17] <M4dH4TT3r> like unetbootin?
[14:17] <amigojapan> M4dH4TT3r: I think so, not sure ...
[14:18] * rjanja (~rjanja@066-241-071-228.ashlandfiber.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:18] <ShorTie> it can with beeryboot
[14:18] <ShorTie> berryboot*
[14:19] <M4dH4TT3r> ok thanks
[14:19] <ShorTie> or you can manually move / too
[14:20] <M4dH4TT3r> just trying to install from iso mounted to usb onto sdhc
[14:20] <ShorTie> but you still need a sdcard for the firmware
[14:22] <amigojapan> M4dH4TT3r: are you the guy that wants ubuntu on rpi?
[14:22] <M4dH4TT3r> no
[14:22] <amigojapan> ah ok
[14:22] <M4dH4TT3r> I dont think so
[14:22] <amigojapan> well, if you were, you would probably know :)
[14:22] * onder` (~onder@dyn-dsl-to-76-75-118-43.nexicom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:22] <ShorTie> what are you trying to install ??
[14:22] <M4dH4TT3r> lol
[14:23] <M4dH4TT3r> deb
[14:23] <M4dH4TT3r> real deb
[14:23] <ShorTie> not the 1 that is optimized for the rPi ??
[14:23] <amigojapan> M4dH4TT3r: why not use an image?
[14:23] <M4dH4TT3r> its not real deb
[14:23] <amigojapan> M4dH4TT3r: the image is real deb
[14:23] * ShorTie thinkz, that is like reinventing the wheel
[14:24] <M4dH4TT3r> i mean if it worked the same as deb I would use it
[14:24] <ShorTie> there are reasons for that you know ??
[14:25] <M4dH4TT3r> raspbian from what im told doesnt work like real deb
[14:25] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:25] <ShorTie> arm's are different from i686/x86_64 that needs special gcc to compile the kernel
[14:25] <M4dH4TT3r> armel
[14:26] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:26] <M4dH4TT3r> ns
[14:26] <M4dH4TT3r> just out of curosity what desktop does rasbian install natively?
[14:27] <amigojapan> LXDE
[14:27] <ShorTie> <shiftplusone> it's lxde, which is bits and pieces built around openbox.
[14:28] * rjanja (~rjanja@66.241.71.228) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:29] <ShorTie> raspbian has a bunch of special sauce added to it to maximize the rPi
[14:29] * manta (~manta@97-86-242-63.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:30] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:31] <M4dH4TT3r> I want more of a light footprint with just vnc 11 and servers installed
[14:31] * t0pping (~t0pping@ip37-130-227-140.lon.ukinetcom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:32] <ShorTie> arch has a nice low profile
[14:32] <gordonDrogon> Raspbian IS Debian compiled for the Pi's CPU plus additional utilities to access the Pi's special bits.
[14:32] <gordonDrogon> and a Pi optimised kernel.
[14:32] * crapp (~crapp@unaffiliated/saedelaere) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:33] <ShorTie> ie: special sauce, lol.
[14:33] <gordonDrogon> indeed.
[14:33] * amigojapan would suggest uninstalling stuff off raspbian
[14:34] * Coffe (~mrGreen@nat.basefarm.se) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[14:34] <crapp> i need microsecond precision to control a sensor from my pi. to what extend does this work with raspbian and c++. I need to what 280µs to do something and after that another 40 µs do to do something else. I suppose 40µs is not realistic with a raspberry pi?!
[14:35] <amigojapan> crapp: how about using an arduino instead? it is real time cause it does not do multitasking like the pi
[14:36] <crapp> amigojapan: I need a raspberry pi. All I could do is using just a mikrocontroller and perform the needed tasks there and do the rest on my pi
[14:36] <gordonDrogon> crapp, marginal on the Pi to get down to 1�S.
[14:37] <gordonDrogon> is it 1�S output or input?
[14:37] <amigojapan> crapp: well, the pi, since it multitasks cannot guarranty that things will happen on time....
[14:37] * michael_lee (~michael_l@1.80.4.65) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:38] * obihann (~jhann@DRMONS0505W-142134038254.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:38] <trickyhero> you could always try some of the real time kernals of linux
[14:38] <amigojapan> ok
[14:38] <trickyhero> that'd be tons of work
[14:38] <amigojapan> ok
[14:38] <gordonDrogon> crapp, we really need more details.
[14:38] <crapp> sure amigojapan, my application itself is multithreading and I know it is problematic.
[14:38] <amigojapan> ok
[14:39] * phantoxe (~destroy@a89-154-119-158.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:40] * manta (~manta@97-86-242-63.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:41] <amigojapan> crapp: how about networking a 328p with the pi... have the time-dependent code run on the 328p?
[14:41] <crapp> gordonDrogon: I set a pin high and have to wait 280µs afterwards. then I ask a adc via i2c to measure the output of the sensor. meanwhile I set the pin to low after another 40µs. after one measurement i'll wait another ~9800µs and start over
[14:41] * rjanja (~rjanja@66.241.71.228) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:42] <gordonDrogon> the timings are do-able, but Linux and the hardware will get in the way. You can run the task at high/real time priority to minimise the effects - the timings may be a bit longer though.
[14:42] <gordonDrogon> and and I2C transaction is really really slow by comparision.
[14:42] <crapp> amigojapan: thats a good idean, problem is I have no experience with mikrocontrollers and interfacing them with a pi. Ho would I do the interface? Writing the measurement code is trivial for me but I never did this on a mikrocotntroller
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[14:42] <gordonDrogon> you'll be transmitting/rxing about 4-6 bytes at 100000 bps.
[14:43] <crapp> gordonDrogon: I also thought that using the adc via i2c maybe an additional bottleneck
[14:44] <crapp> seems like I have to use a mikrocontroller to do this reliable
[14:44] <gordonDrogon> if you want microseconds precision, then yes. if you can put-up with times sometimes a little longer, then the Pi can do it.
[14:44] <amigojapan> crapp: for real fast networking, you could copy the parallel networking scheme I used in my arduino retro computer TV , cause it can transfer one byte at a time , faster than i2c http://amigojapan.github.io/Arduino-Retro-Computer-TV/
[14:46] <crapp> gordonDrogon: I will simply give it a try. I have a different working the sensor to gather the same data, so it is easy to compare the data afterwards
[14:46] <crapp> amigojapan: thanks for your link
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[14:47] <amigojapan> np crapp , hope it helps, I knwo it is quite complicated
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[14:47] <gordonDrogon> crapp, http://wiringpi.com/ is what you need :)
[14:49] <crapp> gordonDrogon: I am alsredy using it :) I have written my own code based on poll() to capture interrupts as I wanted to heave it in c++ fashion but your work on writing to the bcm registers is great. so I use wiringPi to set the edge for my pins. works great!
[14:49] <gordonDrogon> neat :)
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[15:12] <amigojapan> I have not yet doe any programming that uses pins on the pi, I should look it up
[15:16] <amigojapan> python, I see
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[15:19] <gordonDrogon> or C, basic, php, java, etc.
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[15:20] <x100s> Wich browser has best performance when it comes to JS?
[15:20] <gordonDrogon> prob. chromium...
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[15:22] <x100s> okay, sadly it won't use the GPU. Ahh, then Raspberry is quite unfit for running webapps with animations
[15:22] <crapp> I have seen the raspberry pi has integradted pull up resistors for SDA and SCL, are they activated automatically when I load the i2c drivers or do I have to activate them myself?
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[15:22] <Maximus64> Hi everyone
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[15:25] <amigojapan> x100s: I did not even know it could do animation, as far as I saw, midori cant either run flash or html5
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[15:26] <x100s> It can but it's slow
[15:26] <x100s> The JS performance is the issue
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[15:27] <Maximus64> I just build a new kernel for my RPI and it just stop after few sec and I get timeout on the task swapper after every 120 sec
[15:27] <Maximus64> [ 241.168109] INFO: task swapper:1 blocked for more than 120 seconds.
[15:27] <Maximus64> [ 241.174382] "echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/hung_task_timeout_secs" disables this message.
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[15:29] <amigojapan> x100s: in midori?
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[15:42] <x100s> amigojapan: Chromium
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[15:48] <amigojapan> ah ok x100s
[15:49] <amigojapan> x100s: yeah, JS is also probably slow, and chromium itself is probably very very heavy
[15:49] <x100s> Chromium is probably not optimaized for the raspberry?
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[15:50] <amigojapan> x100s: chromium is very heavy weight even on normal PCs
[15:50] <amigojapan> x100s: it uses a lot of memory
[15:50] <amigojapan> x100s: the rpi has very little memory
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[15:51] <amigojapan> x100s: I saw there were some apps for the rpi for watching youtube, that d not use flash or html5, you should check those out
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[15:55] <x100s> Any roadmap for next generation Raspberry PI ?
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[15:56] <IT_Sean> Nope
[15:57] <IT_Sean> There are no plans, at this time, for a revised raspi.
[15:58] <IT_Sean> the Next Big Thing out of the foundation will likely be the display module.
[15:58] <IT_Sean> x100s ^
[15:59] <x100s> Okay.
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[16:03] <amigojapan> I hope the next rpi can run android
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[16:04] <trickyhero> considering it would probably be armv7 it would definitly be able to
[16:05] <amigojapan> if it can, android is probably a much better client OS, while still being able to run a regular linux is better for a server
[16:05] <amigojapan> it would be good to be able to do both
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[16:05] <trickyhero> more options is always better
[16:06] <amigojapan> yes
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[16:27] <espitz> bah... internet went down
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[17:25] <J_Darnley> What file system would you people recommend for an external USB HDD?
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[17:28] <uid69> hello
[17:28] <espitz> depends on what you're planning to do with it, J_Darnley
[17:29] <espitz> will it just be connected to your PI only?
[17:29] <espitz> are you using it for file shares or anything?
[17:29] <espitz> I'd say ext4 is probably going to give you the best read/write speeds
[17:30] <espitz> but if you're planning to move the drive around (i.e. to a Windows system or something) you might want to use FAT32
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[17:31] <J_Darnley> It is supposed to act as my first NAS and perhaps have some remote access
[17:31] <J_Darnley> It is a 1TB drive though so FAT32 won't work will it?
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[17:33] <espitz> I'd go with ext4
[17:34] <uid69> I just plugged in a NTFS drive into my Pi..
[17:35] <espitz> NTFS will be MUCH slower
[17:35] <J_Darnley> Its got ntfs at present but I plan on formatting it
[17:35] <espitz> probably half the write speed, if it not worse
[17:35] <espitz> and yes, that's way above the limit for FAT32
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[17:41] <espitz> there are some windows utilities that will allow you to use an ext3 formatted drive on a win machine - if you plan to move it around
[17:41] <espitz> not sure if that exists for ext4 though
[17:41] <gordonDrogon> if you use the Pi as a nas, then ext4 is fine - you just need to run nfs/samba to allow external devices to access it.
[17:42] <espitz> I'd say ext4 is preferred, no?
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[17:42] <espitz> you should be able to get maybe 9MB/s write speeds, or thereabouts, accessing samba shares from a win machine
[17:42] <espitz> you might get 4 or 5MB/s with NTFS
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[17:44] <uid69> Anybody else play with the pi camera module yet?
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[17:44] <sney> the ext2 windows driver at fs-driver.org works with ext2/3/4 equally, but only filesystems created with -I 128
[17:45] <espitz> thanks, sney. I was not aware of that
[17:46] <sney> np
[17:46] <J_Darnley> Thanks for the input
[17:47] <J_Darnley> I'll idle here while I go afk to capture any more comments
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[17:48] <espitz> If you're planning to do a lot of read/write ops with large files, you may benefit from some overclocking. I've seen claims in the raspi forums that people have achieved over 10MB/s write speeds with ext4
[17:48] <espitz> let me find the link real quick...
[17:49] <espitz> here it is... check this thread for some claims/recommendations: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=13695
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[18:28] <x4i> Hi! I was wondering if in raspberry i can use IRQ to detect button presses. the libraries i've seen require software polling
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[18:36] <gordonDrogon> x4i, yes. You can do this with wiringPi.
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[18:37] <espitz> that's software-based, no?
[18:38] <espitz> there's this thread on ras-pi forums: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7509
[18:38] * kzard (~kzard@41-134-83-186.dsl.mweb.co.za) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:38] <gordonDrogon> yes, it's a library written in C.
[18:39] <espitz> I think he's looking for the opposite approach... that is he wants the GPIO to notify the OS
[18:39] <espitz> not software to poll the GPIO first
[18:39] <espitz> ... if that makes sense
[18:39] <gordonDrogon> something has to listen for the interrupt.....
[18:40] <gordonDrogon> you need to tell the OS what to do when the interrupt fires.
[18:40] <gordonDrogon> and wiringPi allows you to vector that interrupt to a user-defined function.
[18:40] <espitz> the thread I posted has the opposite approach - check it out
[18:40] <gordonDrogon> my code uses the principle in the thread you posted about.
[18:41] <gordonDrogon> you write a program.. in the program you wait for an interrupt.... time passes ... the interrupt fires and your program wakes up and carries on.
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[18:43] <gordonDrogon> it's possible that x4i sees the use of the poll() system call. This may be confusing as it's not a busy poll - it deschedulles the process and waits for the action in a non-busy manner.
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[18:44] <gordonDrogon> in wiringPi you can either wait for the interrupt - which blocks your program, or put that in a thread - which blocks that thread, letting the rest of your program run, or use the 'isr' function in wiringPi to register a function to be called when the interrupt happens. Your program then runs but when the interrupt fires, the named function is executed.
[18:45] <espitz> haha... you're the writer of wiringpi... missed that
[18:46] <gordonDrogon> Yup :)
[18:46] <espitz> should have recognized the name
[18:46] <espitz> my mistake
[18:47] <gordonDrogon> no probs :)
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[18:47] <espitz> the approach is still slightly different though
[18:47] <gordonDrogon> I don't think so - its what I do in wiringPi.
[18:47] <espitz> am I mistaken?
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[18:48] <gordonDrogon> you basically try to read the pin and that read is blocked until the interrupt fires.
[18:48] * ponA (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-095-208-008-139.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:48] <espitz> wiringpi effectively polls the GPIO.. so you can only get an interrupt when it's being polled
[18:48] <espitz> that's not hugely different
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[18:48] <gordonDrogon> no - you are mistaken.
[18:48] <gordonDrogon> it does not poll the pin. it waits on the pin.
[18:48] <espitz> but if many interrupts per second, wiringpi could miss
[18:48] <gordonDrogon> big difference.
[18:49] <gordonDrogon> it uses the poll() system call. This does not do a busy-loop poll, it tells the kernel to wait for data to be available.
[18:49] <espitz> then when does it go back to waiting?
[18:49] <gordonDrogon> it can handle about 66K interrupts/sec.
[18:49] <espitz> after it executes xyz on an interrupt?
[18:50] <gordonDrogon> if your program wants that, then yes.
[18:50] <espitz> I see
[18:50] <espitz> so not terribly different then
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[18:50] <gordonDrogon> very different! It uses ZERO cpu while waiting.
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[18:50] <espitz> I meant not terribly different than the approach I posted earlier
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[18:50] <gordonDrogon> it asks the kernel: wake me up when the interrupt fires.
[18:51] <espitz> I agree it's far different than cyclically polling
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[18:51] <bitplane> wassup piefaces
[18:51] <gordonDrogon> yes, sure.
[18:51] <gordonDrogon> bitplane, the sky.
[18:51] <bitplane> anyone here using volumio?
[18:52] <espitz> not I
[18:52] <gordonDrogon> never heard of it.
[18:52] <espitz> it's a music player
[18:52] <espitz> to make it simple
[18:52] <gordonDrogon> that would require wanting to listen to music...
[18:53] <bitplane> why would you not want to listen to music?
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[18:53] <Nefarious___> gordonDrogon: are you a radio 4 listener?:P
[18:53] <gordonDrogon> it sounds like noise to me.
[18:53] <bitplane> it's emotion encoded in sound
[18:53] <espitz> lol
[18:53] <gordonDrogon> Nefarious___, not really. I listen to R2 in the mornings, but that's all.
[18:53] <espitz> you need emotion to understand that...
[18:54] <espitz> coders mike lack it... :)
[18:54] <gordonDrogon> espitz, no, you need ears and a processing unit that can decode it. I do not posess the processing unit.
[18:54] <espitz> see my point
[18:54] <espitz> robot in a organic case
[18:54] <espitz> :)
[18:54] <bitplane> I'm actually a R4 listener myself, at least for a couple of the good programmes
[18:55] <Nefarious___> Some of the comedy shows are funny
[18:55] <Nefarious___> The one show is good lol
[18:55] <bitplane> yeah, plus the material world and in our time
[18:55] <bitplane> the drama is awful
[18:55] <gordonDrogon> Ah well, time to beat up some flour, water, etc. and turn it into bread...
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[18:55] <bitplane> desert island discs is okay sometimes
[18:57] <bitplane> anyhoo... is the raspberry pi's sound a load of rubbish, or is it my setup? I get a slight crackle when plugged into the jack port and a hiss through HDMI audio
[18:59] <espitz> I don't have any troubles with sound in general... but I dont listen to music on it either
[18:59] <espitz> so there's a distinction there, I suppose
[18:59] <espitz> I use sound through HDMI exclusively
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[19:04] <uid69> bitplane: my sound works great. Sometimes I need to jiggle the audio wire to get it set properly. It was awkard to figure out how far to push it int he first time.
[19:04] <bitplane> hmm I'll try a different image I guess
[19:04] <bitplane> thanks
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[19:07] <uid69> bitplane: what are you using now
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[19:07] <hugogee> which is best way to est. communication between arduino & raspberrypi? I2C,SPI...?
[19:08] <bitplane> uid69: volumio, I've got it plugged into my TV sound system but I get a lot of hiss when no sound is playing. I've got
[19:08] <bitplane> grr premature return key...
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[19:08] <uid69> bitplane: when i was plugging mine in at first - i put my finger behind the port for counter pressure and i thus didn't plug it in far enough and got crap sound - the end of the audio cable actually ends up sticking out a bit.
[19:09] <bitplane> I've tried both jack and HDMI, both aren't ideal
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[19:09] <bitplane> I'll climb behind the TV again in a moment and try that though
[19:09] <uid69> Hmm. Try the XBMC distro.. pretty good for media
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[19:11] <x4i> gordonDrogon,thank you
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[19:11] <bitplane> this is odd. the bad sound is only there when I have both my TV plugged into phono sockets and the rpi into the jack
[19:13] <uid69> ouch. maybe interference
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[19:13] <uid69> test the pi to other speakers - you may need to get a new power plug for the pi or something
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[19:14] <espitz> USB probably easisest method, hogogee
[19:14] <espitz> but that doesn't mean best
[19:15] <espitz> since only 1 or 2 USB ports available on Pi, you might prefer I2C
[19:15] <espitz> I2C would also allow many arduinos to be connected together
[19:16] <bitplane> uid69: yep will try that, thanks
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[19:16] <espitz> but you didn't say what your plan was... so BEST is sort of relative
[19:16] <uid69> bitplane: and watch for audio and power wires overlapping and coming near each other
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[19:34] <ponurak> hi
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[19:36] <uid69> ponurak: Hey
[19:37] <espitz> hello ponurak
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[19:43] <Gorroth> shiftplusone: thanks for the article on nginx vs apache earlier. That was helpful. I'll figure out how to set it up sometime if I ever need to do that. For now, I just rely on dreamhost, however. :-)
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[20:07] <uid69> I'm thinking it's time to ditch the legos and buy a real case..
[20:09] * Hydra (~Hydra@46-65-54-87.zone16.bethere.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:09] <rikkib> http://www.zlham.geek.nz/images/news/rpi-dev.jpg
[20:10] <rikkib> http://www.zlham.geek.nz/images/news/rpi-sw-but.jpg
[20:11] <rikkib> Home built cases
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[20:13] <ShorTie> and the rPi is in suspended antimation ??
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[20:14] <gordonDrogon> hand made metal boxes... so .... retro ;-)
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[20:18] <uid69> rikkib: nice cases
[20:18] <uid69> http://www.amazon.com/Tontec-Raspberry-Board-Enclosure-Clear/dp/B00GNTIDH4 <-- digging this
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[20:30] <gordonDrogon> uid69, interesting...
[20:30] <espitz> I use this one: http://www.savagehomeautomation.com/storage/post-images/raspi-case/case-enclosed-8.jpg
[20:30] <espitz> simple but effective :)
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[20:30] <gordonDrogon> I have several skpang 'cases': http://skpang.co.uk/catalog/cover-with-breadboard-area-for-raspberry-pi-red-p-1071.html
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[20:31] <uid69> espitz: I got a friend using that same case - looks like it does the job
[20:32] <espitz> I like it because it's fully enclosed
[20:32] <mgottschlag> it's funny how all those cases make the vc jtag header accessible - although it is totally useless
[20:32] <espitz> I use mine as a retro game emulator - like to be able to move it around easily without fear of messing up something on the PCB
[20:32] <uid69> gordonDrogon: that's pretty neato
[20:33] <espitz> it might be usable some day, mgottschlag
[20:33] <mgottschlag> ah, no, wait... that amazon link simply shows a picture of a case which has been incorrectly assembled :D
[20:34] <uid69> I'm not sure if I like the fully enclosed or not. The semi enclosed looks cool and might be better for potential cooling isues if they ever arise.
[20:34] <ztaale> i have that case uid69
[20:34] <ztaale> :)
[20:35] <uid69> My Pi is chilling on a self and rarely gets touched since I only remote into it.
[20:35] <mgottschlag> I'd prefer the fully enclosed, but then I happen to regularly through screws or other metallic pieces around on my desk, which might cause shorts :)
[20:35] <ztaale> the tontec one
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[20:35] <espitz> well I'm undecided on cooling issues honestly
[20:35] <espitz> but there's plenty of slits/vents on that clear case
[20:36] <espitz> it's enclosed, but doesnt completely lack air circulation
[20:36] <espitz> there's about 18 1/2 in slits on the bottom too
[20:36] <espitz> centered around the SoC
[20:37] <rikkib> RPi work fine in a fully enclosed metal case
[20:37] <uid69> not much more slash or dust prevention than a semi enclosed case.
[20:37] <espitz> not for dust no..
[20:37] <rikkib> I have had a RPi for a webcam mounted in a metal case for over a year
[20:38] <espitz> just to protect components on the PCB while I'm man-handling it
[20:38] <Gorroth> uid69: My Pi is collecting dust as a server.
[20:38] <Gorroth> Kernel[Linux grim-pi-tv 3.6.11+] CPU[ARMv6-compatible 698 MHz] MemFree(M)[11/438] DiskFree(G)[1218/1389] Uptime[119 days 13 hours 16 minutes] Users[1] LoadAvg[0.15]
[20:38] <Gorroth> There's the RPi... chilling.
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[20:59] <uid69> does anybody have a record uptime set for a rPi ?
[20:59] <Guest47758> Hello everyone
[21:00] * lord4163 (~lord4163@81-232-61-81-no226.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Quit: lord4163)
[21:00] <ppq> you mean a record for the oldest kernel? ;)
[21:00] <Guest47758> I am hoping to get some help setting up my pi to route internat traffic through a vpn, I am using the pi headless, so I need help doing this via terminal.
[21:01] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-74-71-49-75.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: jorge_lo)
[21:01] <chris_99> ppq, yeah, unless, someone got ksplice on the Pi
[21:02] * teepee_ (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:02] <uid69> ppq: sure lol. there's got to be someone who ordered one on day one and hasn't touched it since
[21:02] <uid69> since plugging it in
[21:02] <ppq> chris_99: i don't think ksplice supports arm architectures
[21:03] <Guest47758> Anyone know linux well enough to help with the vpn issue?
[21:03] <Guest47758> Or can point me in the right direction?
[21:03] <chris_99> ah, yeah you're probably right, ppq
[21:03] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:03] * teepee_ is now known as teepee
[21:03] <Guest47758> Is there a better irc channel for help in command line?
[21:04] * Guest47758 is now known as Mindkontrol
[21:05] * pwh (~pwh@18.189.121.96) Quit ()
[21:06] * Werel (~Werel@sydnns0109w-099192026254.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:06] <mgottschlag> Mindkontrol: probably, this channel can only give you generic commandline help, and not so much network/vpn specific help
[21:06] <ppq> Mindkontrol: you're looking for a command line vpn client? --> vpnc
[21:07] * divine (~divine@2001:470:8247:1::42) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:07] <espitz> guest47758: does this help? http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46961
[21:09] <uid69> hmm. Guest47758 - what are you looking for?
[21:10] * monkers (~monkers@unaffiliated/monkeypaws) Quit ()
[21:11] <Mindkontrol> ppq: Ill check that out
[21:12] * x4i (~x4i@unaffiliated/x4i) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:12] <Werel> I don't suppose there's any current deals for a voucher code? I'm about to go through checkout for a rasp pi B w/ DC Noobs card.
[21:12] <uid69> where from?
[21:13] <Werel> newark site
[21:13] <uid69> Setting up your own card might save a few.
[21:13] <Mindkontrol> Dont worry about noobs card
[21:13] <Werel> I'm fine with paying six dolasrs for a SD card
[21:13] <Werel> If I were to get an SD card locally, it would cost at least 9 dollars.
[21:14] <Mindkontrol> Werel: shrug, suit yourself, NOOBs didnt work for me, I ended up having to grab an OS online
[21:14] <johnc-> I paid much more for my SD cards
[21:14] <Werel> I can always flash it :) It would fit all on 8GB, woudln't it?
[21:14] <johnc-> but then, I don't get a corrupted filesystem when overclocked :)
[21:14] <Mindkontrol> I get them free
[21:14] <Mindkontrol> Lost and found phones
[21:14] <Mindkontrol> =)
[21:14] <Werel> hehee
[21:15] <Werel> is it SD, or SD micro? I was assuming normal SD
[21:15] <Mindkontrol> micro
[21:15] <Mindkontrol> Thanks all, have a good one!
[21:15] <Werel> oh! I didn't know. Yeah, I'm definitely fine with paying 6 dollars for an 8gb card.
[21:15] * Mindkontrol (511110aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.17.16.170) Quit ()
[21:16] <uid69> Werel: regular sd - you can likely even install on a 2 gig i think
[21:16] <Werel> uid69, okay, thanks.
[21:16] <Werel> welll still
[21:16] <Werel> umm
[21:16] * ztaale (~bleh@ti0098a380-dhcp1005.bb.online.no) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[21:16] <Werel> anyway, I don't suppose there any Voucher Codes for the newark site currently active? :)
[21:16] <uid69> card speed is also something to consider
[21:17] <uid69> do you have experience formating cards and making stuff like live CDs?
[21:17] <Werel> no, the only live CDs I've made are just from downloading images and burning to CD or using precreated applications to set on USB stick.
[21:18] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[21:19] * FR^2 (~fr@farsquare.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:19] <uid69> honestly - noobs card ain't a bad idea.. however, you'll likely want to learn how to set up a card in the future anyhow.
[21:19] * FR^2 (~fr@farsquare.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:20] <uid69> if you don't already have a sd card ready, go n00b card :-)
[21:20] * DBordello (~DBordello@unaffiliated/dbordello) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:20] <Werel> Yeah, I agree. I'd ideally like to set up a ubuntu rasp pi specific distro and use that. Hehe, yeah, that's my thought, 6 dollars is cheap 'cause anything, no matter the size, will at least cost ten dollars :)
[21:20] <uid69> I had a spare 16gig card laying around so I used that to start - set it up a few days prior and it was really easy.
[21:20] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
[21:20] <uid69> it might be that cheap of card
[21:21] * pwh (~pwh@18.189.121.96) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:21] <uid69> how big is that card
[21:22] <Werel> 8gig I think
[21:22] <Werel> My end goal is to set up OpenCV rasp pi release and see if I can use a cheap generic usb webcam to do low frequency facetracking. Seems like there are a lot of current tuts for that on the internet.
[21:23] <uid69> not finding anything dramatically cheaper in that size on amazon
[21:23] <uid69> awesome
[21:23] <Werel> for SD, I'd either buy something cheap chinese on ebay, or just get it locally from an electronics shop
[21:23] * Mement (~Mement@5ED3B653.cm-7-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:25] <uid69> cool. go n00bs card!
[21:25] <uid69> aren't all SD cards cheap chinese cards?
[21:25] <uid69> with the exception of the knock offs with fake specs..
[21:27] * SpeccyMan (~nick@94.197.121.122.threembb.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> uid69: It varies dramatically.
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> uid69: The market goes all the way down to 16 gigabit flash chips sold as 128mbyte - because that's all that works.
[21:28] <uid69> SpeedEvil: what's top of the line in sd card?
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> The new sandisk ultras are pretty good
[21:29] * FR^2 (~fr@farsquare.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> In terms of random write speed
[21:29] <espitz> they're not ALL chinese
[21:29] <espitz> Lexar manufactures SD cards in Utah
[21:30] * FR^2 (~fr@farsquare.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-microSDHC-Ultra-adapter-Mobile/dp/B007JTKLEK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1389212986&sr=8-5&keywords=sandisk+ultra
[21:30] <Werel> Sorry, I specifically mean eBay lowerest price search chinese supply SD cards :P
[21:31] <espitz> lol ok
[21:31] <espitz> thats probably true then
[21:31] <uid69> I've been a fan of my sandisk cards- n ot sure if I have an ultra one
[21:32] * scorphus (~scorphus@CAcert/User/scorphus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[21:34] <espitz> I've been using two Sony SD Cards - just cause I had them from old cameras
[21:35] <Werel> If I use the USB to a game console in the same entertainment stand, like XBox360, just for power, will it try to sync up or do anything wierd, or can I expect it to just hook up and draw power?
[21:35] <espitz> one's a 4GB class 4 (which has noobs on it) and the other is a 16GB class 6 with a raspbian/retroarch image on it... both have worked flawlessly for me so far
[21:35] <Werel> now that I think about it, I have a USB Power block, but I was just thinking about what's handy.
[21:35] * kzard (~kzard@105-236-123-224.access.mtnbusiness.co.za) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:35] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-74-71-49-75.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:37] * hubutm20 (~hubutm20@79.114.5.101) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:37] <IT_Sean> Werel: the microUSB connector on the Pi won't "sync" anything... it only has connections for power.
[21:37] <espitz> I haven't tried it Werel, but powering from USB on XBOX360 might work
[21:37] <espitz> no guarantee you'll get enough amperage though
[21:37] <IT_Sean> ^ that
[21:37] <Werel> okay, I didn't know if there were any data pins connected, thanks.
[21:37] <Werel> ahhrr
[21:37] <Werel> okay
[21:38] <Werel> Well I'll make sure I use my USB wall wart, then :P
[21:38] <espitz> a XBOX 360 controller certainly doesn't need 1A of power
[21:38] <Werel> espitz, no, but maybe after I'm done modding one with enough LEDs it might ;3
[21:38] <espitz> current* I mean
[21:39] * mgottschlag (~mgottschl@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:39] <Werel> espitz, Just as an aside, I'm currently tricking one out for LEDs along the neck. Now one whole amp though, I'm even gonna do some alternating PWM to illuminate half at a time at high frequency to save current draw. :P
[21:39] <Werel> Rockband plastic guitar controller, that is
[21:39] <espitz> haha
[21:40] * kzard (~kzard@105-236-123-224.access.mtnbusiness.co.za) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:40] <uid69> can't go wrong with an old phone charger brick :-)
[21:41] <espitz> yeah, you really can't
[21:41] * po10 (~po10@c-178-73-197-136.anonymous.at.anonine.com) Quit (Quit: /)
[21:41] <Werel> uid69, exactly!
[21:41] * quaisi (~simon@host-2-96-162-170.as13285.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:43] * po10 (~po10@c-178-73-197-136.anonymous.at.anonine.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:43] <uid69> back on the topic of cases... just noticed people sell pi camera cases/mounts.. genius~!
[21:44] <uid69> http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-15554&scode=GS401&CAWELAID=530004080000130372?catargetid=1545764029&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CJbPxd-477sCFUjxOgodtXcA5A combo camera and pi mount
[21:44] <Werel> about that.. I find I'm not too interested in the pi camera module, provided I'm willing to use the USB plug ( or with a hub ) , a usb generic cam should work just as wel?
[21:47] <uid69> I've heard the USB hub ain't the greatest and the pi camera module can preform a bit better.. downside of module is that it doesn't come with a fancy stand or anything but that's the fun of the pi.. making cases.. my camera mount and pi case are aall pieced together
[21:47] <espitz> depends on what you're doing - as always
[21:47] <espitz> camera board uses GPU for a lot - so does not affect CPU usage much
[21:47] <espitz> 5MP is better than a lot of web cams
[21:47] <uid69> I'm very pleased with my pi module's quality
[21:48] * NIN101 (~NIN@n900.quitesimple.org) Quit (Quit: good night)
[21:48] <espitz> plus USB ports on pi are at a premium... lol
[21:49] <uid69> I've got wifi and a thumb drive in my usb ports.. so it's booked up. I try to avoid using my hub.
[21:49] <IT_Sean> If you are going to use a cam, there is really no downsize to the raspi camera module
[21:49] * Mement (~Mement@5ED3B653.cm-7-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: Them breaks)
[21:49] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@91-119-142-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:50] <Werel> Once I have everyone done, I'll be running the USB camera sole-ly on the USB, no other devices. I'm fine with this plan so far :)
[21:50] <Werel> everyone -> everything
[21:50] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:50] <espitz> I found a 7-port powered USB hub that has one (non-syncing) 2.1A port. It's perfect for the Pi
[21:51] <uid69> I would only lose the pi-camera if i were to buy a usb camera that had motors and crap to aim remotely.. but doubt that stuff would be pi compatible out of the box.
[21:51] * felipealmeida (~user@179.210.237.70) Quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
[21:51] <espitz> cause the PI can be powered off the hub and use the hub as a USB 2.0 hub
[21:51] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@91-119-142-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:51] <Werel> uid69, that's part of what I'm planning to do, gonna use ( probably python ) to control a couple GPIOs to aim servos mounting the USB cmera
[21:52] <uid69> One could also make a rig to remotely aim the pi module
[21:52] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@91-119-142-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:52] <uid69> or in the case of the last link i submitted - aim both the pi and the camera
[21:52] <Werel> so long as I can do everything independantly, I should be able to do it all together. if I can control the GPIOs, great, and there are tuts for that. If I can get computer vision with OpenCV to run, great, and there are tuts for that. Then, try to put it together and voila, technology thesis for my course. :P
[21:54] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@91-119-142-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:54] <uid69> awesome
[21:54] <uid69> sounds good. like bacon
[21:54] <Werel> yeah, I can prolly add bacon to it
[21:54] <espitz> nothing sounds as good as bacon,,, who are you kidding?
[21:54] <Werel> and cthulhu ( the bacon of gaming )
[21:55] * zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:55] <Werel> http://www.dorktower.com/2012/08/21/cthulhu-bacon-dork-tower-21-08-12/
[21:55] <uid69> espitz: sorry - i wrongfully compared something to bacon
[21:57] <uid69> is anyone using motion or something to do motion capture with the pi camera?
[21:58] <uid69> I'm kinda falling off the time-lapse band wagon due to the massive amount of photos I suddenly have :-)
[21:58] * double-you (~Miranda@188-193-36-153-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:59] * azerus (~badass@unaffiliated/badass) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[22:00] * KjetilK reads scrollback and sees it is relevant to what he was going to ask
[22:00] <uid69> KjetilK: ask anyway
[22:00] <espitz> please do
[22:01] * KjetilK nods
[22:01] * tombrough (~tom@cpc4-newt3-0-0-cust54.newt.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:01] <KjetilK> I'd like to create a camera that can stream video over LTE, but only if turned on by a remote operator, or automatically, if something in the field changes considerably
[22:02] <KjetilK> and this has to go into a waterproof case
[22:02] * hubutm20 (~hubutm20@79.114.5.101) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:02] <uid69> motion detection camera?
[22:02] <uid69> check out 'motion'
[22:02] <uid69> apt-get install motion
[22:03] <KjetilK> the auto-stream mode would be pretty straightforward
[22:03] <KjetilK> ah
[22:03] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:03] * trisi (~trisi@66-230-112-127-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[22:03] <uid69> not sure about the streaming part
[22:03] * KjetilK googles and finds http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/build-a-motion-capture-security-system-using-a-raspberry-pi/
[22:03] <uid69> it could capture it and then let you view what you captured
[22:04] <uid69> do you want it to log? or just live view?
[22:04] <KjetilK> just live view
[22:04] * trisi (~trisi@209-112-137-81-rb2.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:04] <uid69> and motion sense to save on battery?
[22:04] <KjetilK> I guess I could describe my use case a little
[22:05] <KjetilK> it is for the sport of orienteering, which is about finding your way in the forest while running at high pace with a map
[22:05] <uid69> I'm familiar
[22:05] <KjetilK> there's no money in the sport, for obvious reasons
[22:05] <KjetilK> cool!
[22:05] <uid69> to ensure nobody cheats?
[22:05] <KjetilK> nope, we already have RFID tags for that
[22:05] <KjetilK> to make it worthwhile to watch :-)
[22:05] <uid69> I'm a geocacher - have crossed paths with the orienteering folk handfuls of times
[22:06] <uid69> cool
[22:06] <uid69> cell phone for 4g?
[22:06] <KjetilK> so, my idea is to make a bunch of cameras, scatter them around the forest, but since the total bandwidth of LTE is still limited, they should submit if nothing is of interest
[22:07] <KjetilK> I think a full cell phone would make it too expensive
[22:07] <KjetilK> a tiny modem that could fit inside the case would be better :-)
[22:07] <uid69> you're going to have to get plans and devices.. that's not going to be cheap either
[22:07] <KjetilK> preferably with an external antenna connection, so we could potentially connect them to directional antennaes
[22:08] <KjetilK> yeah, but we might have a deal coming up with the largest telco here...
[22:08] <uid69> I'd get an oild cell pphone.. activate it for the day and run a live IP camera application.. zero setup.. constanty live quality streaming
[22:08] <uid69> direction attennas are $$$ too.
[22:08] <KjetilK> yeah, but it would be a kit that we could pass around different organizers
[22:08] <KjetilK> besides, they are possible to make :-)
[22:09] * NothingMn (~nothingmn@184.70.151.58) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:09] <uid69> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pas.webcam&hl=en <-- i set this up awhile ago in less than 30 seconds on an old phone. it streamed soo nice.
[22:09] * KjetilK looks
[22:09] <uid69> ok thats cool
[22:09] <uid69> how big of a organization are yo?
[22:10] <uid69> your setup might be hard to pass around to people who aren't familiar
[22:10] <KjetilK> yeah, but orienteers tend to be a pretty technical bunch
[22:10] <uid69> ip addresses and everything are going to change everytime you turn the stuff back on..
[22:11] * Gethiox (~gethiox@acte112.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:11] <KjetilK> so, my club is like 130 people, but we have a person who is a senior manager in the largest telco
[22:11] * GentileBen (~RaycisCha@cpc5-lutn10-2-0-cust681.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[22:12] <uid69> awesome
[22:12] <KjetilK> we have GPS tracking and TV production software all coded by orienteers
[22:12] <uid69> what are you using for tracking
[22:12] <KjetilK> actually, I don't know
[22:12] <uid69> ever geocache?
[22:13] <KjetilK> there's a GPS with a GPRS modem, cased together in a small case...
[22:13] <KjetilK> also produced by an orienteer :-)
[22:13] <KjetilK> actually, no :-)
[22:13] <KjetilK> I should though
[22:13] <KjetilK> with kids
[22:14] <uid69> pretty close - but can be done without the race :-)
[22:14] * ryanteck (~ryan@fsf/member/Ryanteck) has left #raspberrypi
[22:14] <espitz> depends on where you are but several carriers have those pre-pay plans that only debit from the balance when the data package is used
[22:14] <KjetilK> yeah
[22:14] <espitz> Virgin has one for $5/day... AT&T for $2/day
[22:15] <espitz> if they're idle they wont cost you anything
[22:15] <KjetilK> I think that would be the least of our concerns, we have one guy in the second largest telco too, albeit not that high up :-)
[22:16] <espitz> I dont know how far apart these things will be
[22:16] <espitz> but you could have a local network so to speak, and just one device with 4G connection
[22:16] <espitz> but number of cameras might be a problem too
[22:17] <espitz> given throughput limits of 3G anyway
[22:17] <Werel> I figure I'd toss it out there one last time, I don't suppose anyone knows any voucher codes for newark for the raspberry pi that are active? I'm gonna go through checkout and figured I'd ask around since I couldn't pull up anything on Google.
[22:17] * divine (~divine@2001:470:8247:1::42) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[22:17] <espitz> again, not sure where yo uare
[22:17] <KjetilK> I was thinking about trying to get a team around doing the electronics, combining a SoC that would do encoding, a simple 480p @25 Hz cam, then a LTE chip, and possibly a bluetooth connection to view the field and do config on a tablet
[22:17] * mrclarinet (mrclarinet@108.246.17.139) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] <KjetilK> espitz, they are going to be several km's apart, though some may be close together
[22:17] <uid69> that's awesome
[22:17] <uid69> how much do you think it would cost out of pocket per setup
[22:18] <KjetilK> actually, I'm thinking about creating a hotspot where there are several of these cams, and fly a quadcopter around too :-)
[22:18] <KjetilK> uid69, I don't know the costs, really, that's partly why I'm here
[22:18] * pwh (~pwh@ec2-54-221-255-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:18] * divine (~divine@2001:470:8247:1::42) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:19] <espitz> you might also have a look at the RPI900 module
[22:19] <KjetilK> anyway, I figured it is probably a better idea to build it on a rasppi first and then go from tehre
[22:19] <hid3> Hello everyone. My RPi is used for playing *.wav and *.flac files using mpd. However, it's the 3rd day it is playing the music, and it is the 2nd time the RPi hangs up. Any ideas what might be wrong?
[22:19] <espitz> has a range of many many miles
[22:19] * \mSg (mSg@unaffiliated/msg/x-4576342) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:19] * picca (~picca@94.11.184.115) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:19] * NothingMn is now known as NothingMn_______
[22:20] <espitz> this doesn't solve the LTE problem, but it would give you a way to network all the pis/cameras together over a pretty vast distance with no need for relays or anything
[22:20] * quaisi (~simon@host-2-96-162-170.as13285.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] * picca (~picca@94.11.184.115) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:20] <KjetilK> espitz, that's very interesting
[22:20] * picca (~picca@94.11.184.115) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] * m8 (~m@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[22:20] <uid69> hid3: check out 'RaspyFi - a distro for music lovers'
[22:21] <espitz> or volumio
[22:21] * picca (~picca@94.11.184.115) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:21] <KjetilK> actually, there is a radio amateur living with a free line of sight to most of the terrain for the event that I'm working on
[22:21] * raxetul (~emrah@95.5.71.26) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] <uid69> I'll second espitz - LTE connect everything. No bluetooth, no relays..
[22:21] <espitz> problem with the RPI900 would be the power factor
[22:21] <KjetilK> that's a luxury we will probably not have very frequently though
[22:21] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-74-71-49-75.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: jorge_lo)
[22:21] <espitz> 12V @ 1A for each device...
[22:22] * DBordello (~DBordello@unaffiliated/dbordello) has left #raspberrypi
[22:22] <espitz> though that might be scalable if you dont need the 65km max range
[22:22] * double-you (~Miranda@188-193-36-153-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:23] <hid3> uid69: I do use the RPi for some other tasks, not only for music. Besides, if I'm not using RaspyFi, does this mean my RPi can hang up just because it plays music?
[22:23] * zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:23] <KjetilK> espitz, if we could do an external connector, we could solve that
[22:23] <uid69> Not sure. I never used mine for music so I can't say much about the problem. I was just enlightened to the distros built for music.
[22:23] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:23] * \mSg (mSg@unaffiliated/msg/x-4576342) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] <KjetilK> since pretty much every orienteer has a 80Wh battery they use for night orienteering :-)
[22:24] <espitz> so would the cameras be on the orienteer then?
[22:24] <espitz> I was envisioning a device strapped to a tree or something
[22:24] <KjetilK> yeah, the plan is to strap the device to a tree
[22:25] <uid69> does everyone go out at once? is it slowly paced?
[22:25] * debenham (~cjd@122.150.24.35) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:25] <KjetilK> but then the people in the club has a battery they don't need since they are organizing
[22:25] <KjetilK> uid69, it depends on the type of event
[22:26] <KjetilK> in a relay, there's a mass start, in most individual events, people rarely see each other
[22:26] <uid69> KjetilK: so partipants would be the primary viewer of the cameras out there?
[22:26] <KjetilK> uid69, yeah, you could say that :-)
[22:27] <KjetilK> also, the main sponsor was recently lost, we used to a have a big screen
[22:27] <uid69> i like the idea of strapping cameras to people.
[22:27] <KjetilK> yeah, it has been done
[22:27] <espitz> actually the RPI900 has a load switch that would allow you to remotely power down the Pi/Camera... that might help too
[22:27] <espitz> http://rpi900.com/hardware/features.html
[22:27] <KjetilK> they even tried real-time streaming, but that was rather much harder :-)
[22:27] <uid69> using phone apps.. you could have a live tracking app that puts everybody on one map too.
[22:28] * \mSg (mSg@unaffiliated/msg/x-4576342) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:28] <espitz> "Provide unregulated power using an off-the-shelf 12 V DC adaptor. For remote installations, a terminal block connector is also available for wiring to a 12 V solar regulator and/or battery."
[22:28] <espitz> guess a car battery would do the trick... lol :)
[22:29] <KjetilK> :-)
[22:29] <KjetilK> Here's a Java app that is used for the real-time tracking: http://www.tulospalvelu.fi/gps/2012juko4/
[22:29] * trickyhero (~Deitrick@d4-50-215-4.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:29] <Gorroth> What is the RPi900?
[22:29] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-74-71-49-75.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] <KjetilK> that's an example of a race that I participated myself :-)
[22:29] <Gorroth> No, don't use Java!
[22:29] <Gorroth> It's not even that crossplatform. :-)
[22:29] <KjetilK> Gorroth, sorry (sincerely!)
[22:30] <Gorroth> Heheh
[22:30] <ppq> Blasphemy! He's said it again!
[22:30] <espitz> it's a package meant to provide long-range (~65km) connectivity between an RPi and other devices (including other RPIs)
[22:30] <espitz> in a nutshell, it's just an adapter board that attaches to the GPIO, and a wireless radio module
[22:31] <Gorroth> 65km? holy crap
[22:31] <KjetilK> (It is a huge relay in Finland, like 1600 teams, just the leading teams wear a GPS tracker. I was around 650 when I ran, IIRC)
[22:31] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-74-71-49-75.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:31] <Gorroth> Is it legal to use that in the USA?
[22:31] <espitz> it's designed specifically for operation of remote field equipment
[22:32] <espitz> yes it operates in the 900MHz band
[22:32] <espitz> like older cordless phones and other such devices
[22:32] <Gorroth> espitz: Like having an RPi in a farm's grain bin somewhere without Internet connectivity?
[22:32] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-74-71-49-75.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:32] <espitz> yeah
[22:32] * \mSg (~mSg@unaffiliated/msg/x-4576342) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:32] <espitz> and ametuer adio
[22:33] <espitz> a.k.a. the 33cm band
[22:33] <uid69> that's an awesome link KjetilK
[22:33] <KjetilK> hmmmm
[22:33] <KjetilK> "Data transmission rates of up to 500 kb/s are possible"
[22:33] <uid69> I gotta run. See ya later
[22:34] <espitz> there are limits to how much power you can transmit froma device in that band
[22:34] * KjetilK waves at uid69
[22:34] <espitz> but I don't think there are really any other major restrictions
[22:34] <KjetilK> I don't think 500 kb/s is sufficient to stream video, even without audio?
[22:34] <espitz> and honestly, if you're out in the woods - who's going to be checking? LOL
[22:34] <KjetilK> yeah
[22:35] <KjetilK> what the tele authority doesn't know doesn't hurt them :-)
[22:35] <espitz> good point kjetilk
[22:36] <espitz> although 500kbps is adequate for lower res streaming I'm sure
[22:36] <KjetilK> A friend of mine said that we should spec the bandwidth per unit at 2 Mb/s
[22:36] * tombrough (~tom@cpc4-newt3-0-0-cust54.newt.cable.virginm.net) has left #raspberrypi
[22:36] <espitz> i work for a satellite communications firm... due to the outrageous costs, we often do fairly low rate video
[22:36] <espitz> like 384kbps
[22:36] <espitz> for VTCs and such
[22:37] <KjetilK> ah
[22:37] <KjetilK> actually, my friend used to do that too
[22:37] <KjetilK> now he works for an IPTV middleware kinda company
[22:37] <espitz> I mean satellite bandwidth in C and Ku bands can cost $2500 to $5000 per MHz.
[22:37] <espitz> per month
[22:38] <pksato> I watched youtube (144p or 240p) on 512kps link.
[22:39] * KjetilK nods
[22:39] <espitz> its just a thought
[22:39] <espitz> up to you to implement
[22:39] <espitz> lol
[22:40] <espitz> I still think LTE with a pay by the day plan is the way to go
[22:40] * KjetilK nods
[22:40] <espitz> unless you can work a deal
[22:40] <KjetilK> yeah, I think LTE should work fine
[22:40] <espitz> I assume these events are only a couple dozen times a year, and no more than a few days
[22:40] <KjetilK> yeah
[22:41] <espitz> a dozen cameras at $2 a day = $24 a day... times 36 days = $864/year
[22:41] <espitz> that's not bad
[22:41] <KjetilK> actually, the tech development we've done has got some nice press, including a full-page article in the Norwegian "Financial Times" equivalent
[22:41] <espitz> and the hardware will cost you what? maybe $100 per camera or so
[22:42] <KjetilK> yeah, something like that
[22:42] <Gorroth> espitz: Well, I think that sounds like some damn fine engineering for distance links. I should speak to my father about that and see if I can't setup something for his farm.
[22:42] <KjetilK> so, there's some hope we can use that to say something "we're going to put your LTE to a real test, and we need your help to publisize it"
[22:43] <espitz> they're very cheap too gorroth
[22:43] <espitz> at $45 per unit
[22:43] <KjetilK> anyway, that's something somebody else has to figure out
[22:43] <espitz> plus $40-50 for the pi and accessories
[22:43] <KjetilK> It seems like the first I should do is to buy a pi with cam
[22:44] <espitz> good place to start, kjetilk :)
[22:44] <KjetilK> and connect the modem and bluetooth to the USB
[22:44] <espitz> I would use the module made for the Pi
[22:44] * KjetilK nods
[22:44] <espitz> can do h.264 encoding on GPU
[22:44] <espitz> much faster
[22:44] <espitz> than any usb alternative
[22:44] <KjetilK> ah, great!
[22:44] <Gorroth> espitz: Yeah, what had held me back from really trying to provide anything for my dad is that his grain bins and things would have to become Internet-connected, and that's just not scalable.
[22:44] * Curly (cybr1d@unaffiliated/cybr1d) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:44] <espitz> all you have to do gorroth, is figure out how to get them DC power
[22:45] <Gorroth> I already have two spare model B RPis
[22:45] <espitz> but a cheap solar panel and battery could be good enough
[22:45] <Gorroth> well, he already has power :-)
[22:45] <espitz> power in a grain bin?
[22:45] <Gorroth> true
[22:45] * Curly is now known as cybr1d
[22:45] <Gorroth> Yeah, grain bins need power
[22:45] <shiftplusone> Well... this channel is unusually active for this time O_o
[22:45] <Gorroth> They run dehumidifiers
[22:45] <espitz> did not know that
[22:45] <espitz> and I live in the middle of a million farms... lol
[22:45] <Gorroth> Yeah, the grain will spoil otherwise
[22:46] <Gorroth> Maybe not all of them do, but a lot of them require power
[22:46] <espitz> we're solving the world's problems, shiftplusone
[22:46] <shiftplusone> Ah, so the reason there are still problems is because YOU guys are slacking off? >=/
[22:46] <espitz> raspi helps farmers, orienteers and audiophiles alike... lol
[22:47] <KjetilK> :-)
[22:47] * Kane (~Kane@ADijon-257-1-55-108.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Night all o/)
[22:47] <Gorroth> I actually am slacking off. :-)
[22:47] <Gorroth> I'm not completely focusing on our game's sound engine right now.
[22:47] * pwh (~pwh@ec2-54-221-255-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com) Quit ()
[22:47] <espitz> the power module for the rpi900 provides the 12V 1A to the wireless module, as well as 5V 1A to the raspi
[22:48] <espitz> so it should work nicely
[22:48] <shiftplusone> Game? What sort of game?
[22:48] * Attie (~attie@host86-135-29-99.range86-135.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:48] <KjetilK> so, can I get away with a Model A?
[22:48] * jorgelo_ (~anonymous@h-69-3-106-218.nycm.ny.megapath.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:48] <espitz> most likely, yes
[22:48] <espitz> I dont see why you'd need mroe than one usb port
[22:48] <espitz> not once it's in the field anyway
[22:48] <espitz> and the RAM should be a non-issue... give most of it to the GPU
[22:49] <KjetilK> right
[22:49] <Gorroth> shiftplusone: ROBLOX
[22:49] <ppq> has anyone done image processing using a web cam or the pi camera module? i found this so far: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/robot/image_processing/ - is there more docs somewhere?
[22:49] <KjetilK> actually, I could use two USB ports, one for the bluetooth and one for the LTE modem...
[22:49] * jorge_lo (~anonymous@cpe-74-71-49-75.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:50] <espitz> what's the BT for again?
[22:50] <KjetilK> configuration, mainly
[22:50] <espitz> I would be worried that the RPI couldnt power both by itself
[22:50] <KjetilK> oh, ok
[22:50] <espitz> even the model B
[22:51] <espitz> you woudl have to check the power draw on both devices
[22:51] <espitz> cause you defeinitely have a budget
[22:51] <KjetilK> ok
[22:51] <KjetilK> BT generally uses very little power
[22:51] <Nefarious___> Could a Pi model A cope with a python blog + not many visitors? (I hate vague questions too :P)
[22:51] <KjetilK> I think they wouldn't be used at the same time
[22:52] <KjetilK> so the main reason for having them plugged in at the same time is to avoid opening the case
[22:52] <espitz> let me check specs again... I forget what the budget is...
[22:52] <KjetilK> thanks, espitz, I wouldn't know where to find the specs (yet) :-)
[22:53] * double-you (~Miranda@188-193-36-153-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[22:54] <espitz> well it's not specified directly
[22:54] <espitz> but the polyfuse trips at 1.1A
[22:54] <espitz> so that would mean no more than 400mA through USB if the pi itself is drawing max current
[22:55] <espitz> others have suggested 100mA per port... that seems low to me though
[22:56] <espitz> http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/340/how-much-power-can-be-provided-through-usb
[22:56] <shiftplusone> Gorroth, not much information about it, but whatever there is seems interesting.
[22:56] <KjetilK> ok
[22:57] <espitz> I'm not advocating this
[22:57] <espitz> but you could bypass the polyfuse
[22:57] <KjetilK> found this: https://www.modmypi.com/nano-bluethooth-dongle
[22:57] <espitz> you could simply brdige F1 and F2 bypassing the polyfuse
[22:59] <KjetilK> yeah, but it would be nicer to see if it doesn't exceed 1.1A
[22:59] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[22:59] <KjetilK> 400mA is quite a lot, so if the BT requires very little, it could work
[22:59] <Gorroth> shiftplusone: Oh, it's an online MMORPG. Players can play game worlds created by other players. You can also create your own world and program its behavior in Lua. You can even write scripts for your own player or other players or NPCs to provide AI to them.
[23:00] <Gorroth> shiftplusone: Basically, if you can imagine it, ROBLOX tries to provide you the tools to do it.
[23:00] <Gorroth> It's quite a fun game.
[23:00] <Gorroth> But our sound engine currently sucks. I'm making major updates to it right now.
[23:00] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p4237-ipbf1805souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:00] <KjetilK> it doesn't say how much current it draws, though
[23:01] <shiftplusone> Gorroth, yeah, I got that. I got that much about it. But most of the info on the site is about the company rather than the game. (You need to fire a few managers and marketing people) =P
[23:01] <espitz> hard to find current draw specs on LTE modems... lol
[23:02] <Gorroth> shiftplusone: Send an email to info@roblox.com to tell them your impressions of the website. They'll take it seriously if you say it is confusing to you. Because I agree it can be better, but I think we're having problems figuring out how to make it better.
[23:02] * BeBored (BeBored@37-4-140-154-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit ()
[23:04] * lansiir (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:05] <espitz> well, if nothing else there's a list of verified working devices here; http://elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals#USB_3G_Dongles
[23:05] <espitz> and here: http://elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals#USB_Bluetooth_adapters
[23:06] <shiftplusone> Nuh, I've got no vested interest to do that. But an FAQ and a few tutorials for beginners could help. As it is, things are a little vague. Maybe all that stuff is hidden behind the login.
[23:06] <Nefarious___> It's written in JavaScript? :O
[23:06] <Nefarious___> Duh
[23:06] <Nefarious___> Mega stupid moment
[23:07] <espitz> sorry, second link should be this one: http://elinux.org/RPi_USB_Bluetooth_adapters
[23:07] * Nefarious___ facedesks
[23:07] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:07] <espitz> what's wrong with java?
[23:07] <espitz> oh JS
[23:07] <espitz> nevermind
[23:08] <Nefarious___> Java's memory management is awful
[23:08] <Nefarious___> Java is hell
[23:08] <espitz> I disagree
[23:08] <espitz> was hell yes
[23:08] <espitz> but not the last couple years
[23:09] <Nefarious___> Hm?
[23:09] <shiftplusone> My only experience with java is as a user of stuff written in Java.... and it's all terrible.
[23:09] <espitz> they've made a LOT of improvements in the last couple years
[23:09] <espitz> specifically on garbage collection
[23:10] <espitz> I'm a little biased maybe
[23:10] * Werel (~Werel@sydnns0109w-099192026254.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:10] <espitz> started with java
[23:10] <espitz> so everything else seems like extra work... lol
[23:11] <Nefarious___> I try to forget about my (limited) experience with Java
[23:11] * [SkG] (~sconde@unaffiliated/skg/x-897332) Quit (Quit: Saliendo)
[23:11] <espitz> everyone is tainted by their "upbringing" I think
[23:11] * KjetilK tries Java every 4-5 years, ends up hating it every time...
[23:11] <Nefarious___> Yeah, I guess
[23:11] <GivenToCode> javas memory management is a result of decades of memory management research. I doubt you or anyone you know could do better
[23:11] <ppq> it is kind of fun to write java programs. but i don't want to do that to any user, no matter if/how they deserve it
[23:11] <espitz> lol... that's harsh giventocode
[23:12] <KjetilK> if not so much for the language, rather for the horrible, horrible stacks, Maven, Tomcat, Log4J was my major hate points the last time...
[23:12] <Nefarious___> GivenToCode: so what are you basing that on?
[23:12] <espitz> though I agree that the more current generations of java are really quite an improvement
[23:12] <shiftplusone> I started with vb6, but would consider myself as a copy/paste programmer back then. Got into actual programming with microcontrollers, so I like to have full control over everything, rather than trust a VM to take care of things.
[23:12] <espitz> and memory management is no longer something you have to worry about as much as you used ot
[23:12] * KjetilK started with GWBasic... :-)
[23:13] <espitz> well I guess I started with BASIC too
[23:13] <espitz> but I'm talking about real programming projects...
[23:13] <GivenToCode> I am basing that on my knowledge of developers not really knowing how to do memory management effectively
[23:13] <espitz> lolz.. .that's a true statement
[23:14] <KjetilK> nowadays, I don't want to do memory management effectively :-)
[23:14] <GivenToCode> and the incredible amount of research built in to the JVM
[23:14] <Nefarious___> I'm guessing you code in Java?
[23:14] <GivenToCode> essentially the JVM knows your code better than you do before you even write it
[23:15] <espitz> obviously he does... no one would rightly defend it otherwise...
[23:15] <Nefarious___> I know lol
[23:15] <GivenToCode> scala mostly
[23:15] <espitz> I dont mean that negatively, but why defend anything you dont use?
[23:15] <GivenToCode> came up on Java, have a bunch of python code in production
[23:15] <KjetilK> scala is interesting, except seeing people fire up a IDE to program scares me...
[23:15] <espitz> unless you're trolling, of course
[23:15] <GivenToCode> im just old, i've been around the block
[23:16] * mrclarinet (mrclarinet@108.246.17.139) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:16] <J_Darnley> Java has a crap reputation in part thanks to its horrible browser plugins
[23:17] <J_Darnley> Not a week goes by these days without hearing about some exploit
[23:17] <GivenToCode> ha oh man, the Java ecosystem is so much bigger than browser plugins...
[23:18] <J_Darnley> True
[23:18] * Kymru (~Kymru@0540bf14.skybroadband.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] <J_Darnley> My STB is "powered by java" and it is also shit
[23:18] <NothingMn_______> the only thing keeping java alive is android ;)
[23:18] <espitz> that's so not true
[23:18] <shiftplusone> What's an example of good java software most people use and not because they have to but because it performs better than the alternatives written in C? (I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I am having a hard time coming up with anything)
[23:18] <Nefarious___> And even then there are ports to other languages
[23:18] <J_Darnley> Minecraft?
[23:19] <shiftplusone> J_Darnley, family friendly channel.
[23:19] <J_Darnley> Azureus, back when it was called Azureus?
[23:19] <rikkib> eclipse
[23:19] <J_Darnley> shiftplusone: okay
[23:19] <Nefarious___> Minecraft's coding is an abomination, apparently
[23:19] <shiftplusone> none of those perform better.
[23:19] <NothingMn_______> honestly debating why a language is good nor bad, without any given context is pretty futile
[23:20] <rikkib> All the main stream uses Eclipse now days
[23:20] <NothingMn_______> main stream what?
[23:20] * NothingMn_______ is now known as NothingMn
[23:20] * FR^2 (~fr@farsquare.de) Quit (Quit: und weg...)
[23:20] <rikkib> timtaler, Freescale
[23:20] <rikkib> ti
[23:20] <shiftplusone> rikkib, we use it, but we also grumble about it.
[23:20] <NothingMn> kinda pointless in making broad, unfounded claims
[23:20] * Yachtsman (~Yachtsman@174-145-63-251.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:21] * J_Darnley just realised he needs to setup highlighting again
[23:21] <GivenToCode> shiftplusone, enter the world of server development, java dominates
[23:21] <NothingMn> GivenToCode I wouldnt go that far
[23:21] <NothingMn> got reputable stats to back that up?
[23:21] <GivenToCode> hadoop, storm, anything out of netflix or apache
[23:22] <shiftplusone> hmm
[23:22] * MrThePlague (~v4x@unaffiliated/v4x) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:22] <rikkib> I use it and find it pretty good at what it does... It has issues of course
[23:22] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit ()
[23:22] <J_Darnley> J_Darnley
[23:22] <GivenToCode> cassandra, neo4j in databases
[23:23] <GivenToCode> solr/lucene
[23:23] <KjetilK> In my previous-previous job, I found that 1 in a 100 coders produced really good code in Java
[23:23] <Nefarious___> The bias is unbearable, I'm off ;)
[23:23] <KjetilK> the rest produced mostly rather bad stuff
[23:23] * trickyhero (~trickyher@d4-50-67-5.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:23] <NothingMn> KjetilK, that goes for any language
[23:24] <KjetilK> in most other cases, the rest would still produce decent working code
[23:24] <KjetilK> NothingMn, actually, I don't think that's the case
[23:24] <NothingMn> and words like "good" and "decent" are pretty subjective
[23:24] <KjetilK> true
[23:24] <espitz> KjetilK: that's not a fault of the language
[23:24] <NothingMn> subjective and context sensitive
[23:24] <KjetilK> espitz, so, what *is* the problem then...?
[23:24] <NothingMn> for example...gaming..you wouldnt care about 5+ years of life..so you can cut corners for performance reasons
[23:25] <NothingMn> enterprise..its less about cutting corners and in terms of ROI and longevity & your ability to maintain the code base
[23:25] <NothingMn> the guy who wrote candy crush didnt consider IoC or TDD
[23:25] <NothingMn> ;)
[23:25] <KjetilK> I think the technical debt builds up much faster than that...
[23:27] <NothingMn> i would say the pace at which debt builds, would be directly porportionate to the architecture in place
[23:27] <NothingMn> ..and lack of requirements, scope, time, resources,..the usual fun stuff
[23:27] * KjetilK nods
[23:28] <KjetilK> I shouldn't be talking too much, since I haven't done that much Java (or that much coding for that matter, I've just coded for nearly 30 years, just not a lot in all that time)
[23:28] <shiftplusone> Well, that was an interesting read.
[23:29] <espitz> if anything the piss-poor coder problem is because the language has such an easy entry for would-be coders
[23:29] <KjetilK> but it seems to me that shortcuts you do in Java tend to be much more destructive than in any other language I've been writing in
[23:29] * owen_ (~owen@180.200.152.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:29] <NothingMn> espitz and KjetilK the human problem is ..more.. of an issue for me
[23:30] <KjetilK> the company I worked in hired only people with master's and above, and only people with excellent grades....
[23:30] <NothingMn> ugh...such a narrow vision..IMHO
[23:30] <KjetilK> (I got in because of some, lets say, interestes...)
[23:30] <KjetilK> yeah, I tend to agree, I've worked with 17 year olds who dropped out of school to be really good coders
[23:30] <NothingMn> id probably not even want to work at a place with only people with masters degrees
[23:31] <espitz> just be clear, I wasn't advocating every program written in java
[23:31] <NothingMn> that would be terrible
[23:31] <espitz> I was advocating the language
[23:31] <NothingMn> java has its +'s..without a doubt
[23:31] <espitz> there's an important distinction there
[23:31] <NothingMn> ..so does .NET :)
[23:31] <NothingMn> well..C#
[23:31] <espitz> I agree
[23:31] <espitz> I like .net too actually
[23:32] <espitz> I worked on a cross-platform development framework targetted at building games
[23:32] <espitz> it was written primarily in java
[23:32] * pwh (~pwh@ec2-54-221-255-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:32] <espitz> with some cpp
[23:32] <espitz> but the beauty of it is this
[23:33] <espitz> you build one application in java and you can deploy it on android, iphone, blackberry, windows, linux and GWT
[23:33] <NothingMn> might run like a dog with 2 legs and a skateboard..but it will work
[23:33] <NothingMn> ;)
[23:33] <espitz> it's called libgdx, if you have any interest - it's still going strong
[23:34] <espitz> and has literally hundreds of games/apps written with it
[23:34] <espitz> some you might have even used
[23:34] <espitz> just a small subset of them listed here: http://libgdx.badlogicgames.com/gallery.html
[23:35] <KjetilK> nice
[23:35] <espitz> some/most commercial entities don't want their games listed on the libgdx website.
[23:35] <espitz> but there are quite a few
[23:36] <espitz> in fact, you may find some of the devs frequenting the #libgdx channel on this server... lol
[23:37] <espitz> it runs quite well on most platforms... I haven't played with the iPhone/Blackberry stuff yet (that's kinda new)
[23:38] <espitz> but you can do some pretty impressive 3d rendering on the android and iPhones (and of course the desktop)
[23:38] <NothingMn> performance is pretty decent?
[23:38] <espitz> very good actually
[23:38] <espitz> esp with ogles 2.0
[23:38] <NothingMn> coo
[23:38] <espitz> everything that had terrible overhead in java was done with native libraries
[23:38] <espitz> but that's not a lot of stuff
[23:38] <NothingMn> thats always been the downside for Java with me...performance performance performance.
[23:39] <Gorroth> shiftplusone: Oh, they're working on some tutorials. We also have a wiki and things like that. But I thought your problem was that the landing page doesn't give enough info. Am I wrong?
[23:39] <espitz> but you dont have to worry about the "natives" really... just include them in your packages and their functionality is accessible through the java API
[23:40] <espitz> its all behind the scenes you know
[23:40] <espitz> jni
[23:40] <rikkib> Hardly worth building audio amps now days. http://www.surplustronics.co.nz/products/6366-pa-or-home-amplifier-with-eq-and-4-way-input My slave amp needs fixing (One chan blown) http://www.zlham.geek.nz/rpi/amp.jpg
[23:40] * NothingMn nods
[23:41] <espitz> but it supports ogles 1.0 for older hardware
[23:41] <rikkib> New rack box to put it in... I have 5 of the ETI480 amps and two SC480's
[23:41] <rikkib> http://www.zlham.geek.nz/rpi/rack.jpg
[23:42] <shiftplusone> Gorroth, the landing page has no wiki or links to pages with the info. Just the little video and a login box. The wiki does look good though. I guess I'd expect a link to the wiki and some non-vague list of features as a selling point.
[23:42] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:42] <shiftplusone> *sorry, landing page has no info*
[23:43] * NothingMn is now known as NothingMn_______
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[23:43] <Gorroth> shiftplusone: Yes, okay, I agree with you. I'll bring that up with the "people who matter" wrt that. I'm not on the web team and so can't do it myself. I work on the cool stuff.
[23:43] * raxetul (~emrah@95.5.71.26) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:43] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[23:44] <shiftplusone> cool
[23:45] <espitz> gorroth, just create a bogus gmail account and send your complaints through email... lol
[23:45] <Gorroth> espitz: OMG that's a good idea
[23:45] <shiftplusone> heh
[23:45] <espitz> you know better than any of us what's needed
[23:46] <espitz> just dont access the account form work... lolz
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[23:47] * Out`Of`Control (~Viper@unaffiliated/outofcontrol/x-1373891) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:48] <Gorroth> espitz: word up
[23:49] <espitz> and dont be overly specific - you only know what you can see on the website
[23:49] <shiftplusone> Yes, don't say the awesome sounds guy needs a raise, either.
[23:49] <shiftplusone> =P
[23:50] <espitz> haha
[23:50] <Gorroth> espitz: I'll pretend to be a concerned parent or something, saying I'm confused and want to learn how to play the game more easily.
[23:50] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:50] * ppq (~ppq@unaffiliated/ppq) Quit (Quit: ppq)
[23:51] <espitz> but what might be more helpful, is fixing the sound engine instead of the website...
[23:51] <espitz> j/k
[23:51] * trickyhero (~trickyher@d4-50-67-5.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:51] <Gorroth> espitz: Yes :-)
[23:52] <Gorroth> Speaking of that, I should stop jabbering on IRC now. :-)
[23:52] <espitz> is gorroth a reference to the band?
[23:52] <Gorroth> No, I don't know of any bands. I've just used this nickname for many years is all.
[23:53] <Gorroth> Maybe 14 years?
[23:53] <espitz> ahh
[23:53] <espitz> always curious where people come up with names
[23:53] * NothingMn_______ sets mode -jabbering on Gorroth
[23:53] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:53] <espitz> guess I shouldn't read into it too much
[23:53] <Gorroth> Hehe. Okay, going back to work.. :-)
[23:53] <NothingMn_______> ;)
[23:53] * NothingMn_______ is now known as NothingMn
[23:55] <espitz> just got my edimax usb wifi dongle in the mail
[23:55] <espitz> yeah
[23:55] <espitz> no more ethernet cable
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[23:55] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:57] <espitz> and my and my rii touch came! woot!
[23:57] <espitz> http://www.riiminikeyboards.com/
[23:58] <NothingMn> lots of toys
[23:58] <espitz> my pi will be so happy
[23:58] <NothingMn> what are you using your pi for right now?
[23:59] <espitz> mostly as an emulator
[23:59] <espitz> and just for general experimentation
[23:59] <NothingMn> like game console emulation?
[23:59] <espitz> I play NES, SNES, Sega and Playstation games on it.
[23:59] <espitz> yup
[23:59] <NothingMn> ahh

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.