#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2014-04-07

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:01] * aberlin (~aberlin@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:02] * salmon_ (~salmon_@pc1-79.jsn.osi.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] <Taylor> Thank you for the links shiftplusone
[0:07] <blockh34d> yah my PI has played back 99% of everything i try to play
[0:07] * picca (~picca@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:07] <blockh34d> very very rarely can it not play something i've got
[0:07] <zz_Kymru> i am guessing most people on here have linux as their main OS. does anyone know if a HDD has to be working in order to use ububtu on a USB flash drive?
[0:07] * picca (~picca@ Quit (Client Quit)
[0:08] <rikkib> Hmmm
[0:09] <rikkib> Not sure but boot sectors may have to work to point the boot loader at the flash.
[0:10] <rikkib> via bios
[0:10] * snuffeluffegus (~John@cpe-071-077-227-151.ec.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@cable-178-148-70-163.dynamic.sbb.rs) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:12] <rikkib> There are other systems for flash drives that ultimately lead you to a working linux system
[0:12] <zz_Kymru> ok, just my laptop has windows but wont boot so i tried a ubuntu USB flash drive, the bios shows the processor, ram and HDD but wont boot from the flash drive either
[0:12] * Vanfanel (~grabyourd@34.Red-79-151-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] * DataLinkDroid (~DataLinkD@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] <Vanfanel> hey, anybody using Archlinux on the Pi?
[0:13] <ring0> if you use the live version of ubuntu on a usb flash drive, there's no need for a working hdd
[0:13] <linuxstb> zz_Kymru: It's commonly a bios setting to enable booting from US
[0:13] <linuxstb> Or you enter a bios boot menu when the machine boots.
[0:14] <zz_Kymru> linuxstb, done that via F8 at bootup
[0:14] <zz_Kymru> still wont boot
[0:14] <linuxstb> It what way doesn't it boot? Does anything happen?
[0:18] <zz_Kymru> no, go through bios stuff then nothing, i can get into bios and settings etc
[0:18] * pzp (uid11754@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btrtregmaevctyhd) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:18] * aberlin (~aberlin@37-5-33-63-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:19] * jonno11 (~jonno11@cpc1-walt12-2-0-cust582.13-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:20] * pwh_ (~pwh@ Quit ()
[0:20] <ring0> zz_Kymru, how did you create your ubuntu flash drive? what filesystem did you choose? have you tried to enable 'usb legacy mode' in bios?
[0:20] * saedelaere (~quassel@unaffiliated/saedelaere) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:21] * sco` (~ross@unaffiliated/sco/x-3425046) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[0:22] <zz_Kymru> i used Universal-USB-Installer- from windows
[0:22] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] * zyxw (~zyx@boi59-3-82-233-182-64.fbx.proxad.net) has left #raspberrypi
[0:25] * Benguin is now known as Benguin[ZzZ]
[0:27] * NucWin (~nucwin@unaffiliated/nucwin) Quit (Quit: ttfn)
[0:28] <ring0> that's one answer to three questions ;)
[0:30] * picca (~picca@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:32] <zz_Kymru> sorry wasnt F8 from bios it was F10, tried USB hard drive and USB storage stick, neither work, HDD is showing in bios, so is RAM and Processor
[0:33] <zz_Kymru> the USB is on a FAT32 partitioned USB flash drive
[0:37] * Guegs (~Guegs___@207-47-171-38.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:40] * lvispy (~luiz@179-125-129-2.desktop.com.br) Quit ()
[0:41] * Raynerd (~pi@host86-166-184-103.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:42] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[0:42] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:42] <ring0> fat32 actually is fine
[0:44] * ffledgling (~ffledglin@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:44] * Vanfanel (~grabyourd@34.Red-79-151-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has left #raspberrypi
[0:45] <ffledgling> Hello, I'm in need of some help. I hope it's okay to ask here?
[0:46] <ffledgling> I want to set up my rpi, but i don't have a tv/monitor/video output
[0:46] <ffledgling> I have it connected to a router and I figured out it's IP, but I can't ssh into it
[0:46] <ring0> zz_Kymru, Win32DiskImager is recommended for writing the image. i never tried universal-usb-installer, but it probably should do the trick, too
[0:46] <ffledgling> (Nmap says all ports closed)
[0:47] <ffledgling> Does anyone know a way to get it up and running without video out?
[0:48] <ring0> zz_Kymru, considering you can't boot into windows at the momemt, it's not possible to verify the image itself or try Win32DiskImager. my only idea would be to check, if you can enable 'usb legacy mode' in the bios directly
[0:48] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:50] * CEnnis91 (uid3543@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aubgarluurpqvsvi) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:52] * hououina (~hououina@c-71-60-244-180.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:52] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:52] <zz_Kymru> ill give it a shot
[0:55] <twoblocks> ffledgling, I used this guide: http://www.robertawood.com/blog/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-initial-setup-headless-no-monitor-or-keyboard-needed.html
[0:56] <twoblocks> worked fine for me
[0:56] <ffledgling> Twoblocks I did see that
[0:56] <ffledgling> Unfortunately looks like the ssh server didnt start
[0:56] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@cable-178-148-70-163.dynamic.sbb.rs) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:57] <zz_Kymru> ffledgling, what OS are you using on the RPI?
[0:57] <ffledgling> I dd'd raspbian
[0:57] <ShorTie> raspbian has ssh enabled by defualt
[0:58] * picca (~picca@ Quit (Quit: Lingo - http://www.lingoirc.com)
[0:58] * woooden (~woooden@c-98-232-209-134.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: woooden)
[0:58] <blockh34d> my app is great for using rpi remotely for media playback, imo
[0:59] <zz_Kymru> ffledgling, what app are you using to SSH to the RPI?
[0:59] <blockh34d> scamp, free in pi store if you want to try it out
[1:00] * rymate1234 (~rymate@2001:41d0:2:6787::1) Quit (Quit: kthnxbai)
[1:00] <ffledgling> zz_Kynru, ssh that came with fedora.
[1:00] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@ Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[1:01] * jonno11 (~jonno11@cpc1-walt12-2-0-cust582.13-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[1:01] <twoblocks> you def know its ip on your local network, right?
[1:01] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-131-171.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:01] <twoblocks> and you ssh'd to user "pi"?
[1:01] <twoblocks> ssh pi@192.168.0.something ?
[1:01] <ffledgling> Twoblocks yes
[1:01] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:01] <ffledgling> Localsubnet.105
[1:01] <blockh34d> can you ping it?
[1:02] <ffledgling> Port 22 is not open
[1:02] <ffledgling> Was able to yes
[1:02] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-131-171.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] <blockh34d> maybe you could try direct connect the rpi to the computer, skip the router, see if that helps enough you can get the initial setup worked out
[1:03] <ffledgling> Now I've powered off to re flash the sd card
[1:03] <blockh34d> but i'm more used to that process from windows to rpi than fedora to rpi
[1:03] * Somniac (~Somniac@a82-2.nat.uq.edu.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] <zz_Kymru> ffledgling, you dd'd so i am assuming you dont have a card reader available
[1:04] <ffledgling> Blockh34d, I can't connect it to the computer
[1:04] <blockh34d> wrong room or something?
[1:04] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[1:04] <ffledgling> Zz_Kymru, I have the inbuilt ones that come with the laptop
[1:05] <ffledgling> Block34d ? I'm on a laptop so no momitor to connect to
[1:05] <blockh34d> ffledgling: so network cable from computer to rpi then, connect via ssh like you're doing now but different ip
[1:05] <blockh34d> is laptop wireless to the router?
[1:05] <blockh34d> if so you can still share the inet to the rpi (its what i'm doing now)
[1:06] <blockh34d> but like i said, no idea how you do that in fedora
[1:06] * azeam (~azeam@unaffiliated/azeam) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:06] <blockh34d> so this method still doesnt need a monitor or keyboard
[1:07] <blockh34d> nothing to say the router is the problem, who knows... but it could be
[1:07] <ffledgling> Blockh34d my pi connects to the router via eth, laptop via wifi, they're both on
[1:07] <ffledgling> I can ping it
[1:07] <ffledgling> I just cant ssh into it
[1:07] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:08] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:08] <AbbyTheRat> is the ssh services up?
[1:08] * c0be (~me@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:08] * AbbyTheRat scrolls up to see what been done so far
[1:08] <ffledgling> AbbyTheRat doesn't look like. Port 22 is closed
[1:09] <ffledgling> I nmap'd the pi, all ports are closed
[1:09] <zz_Kymru> lo AbbyTheRat
[1:09] <blockh34d> ffledgling: is anything else plugged into rpi like usb storage maybe? or a joystick etc?
[1:09] <ffledgling> Nothing
[1:09] <blockh34d> i've had the rpi not boot one time but when i unplugged everything else, no problem
[1:09] <ffledgling> Just the sdcard power and eth cable.
[1:09] * azeam (~azeam@unaffiliated/azeam) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:09] <ring0> ffledgling, maybe https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/4444/enabling-ssh-on-rpi-without-screen-keystrokes-for-raspi-config
[1:10] * Fishy (~fishy@pool-108-40-3-10.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:10] <blockh34d> can you plug your laptop into the router with a cable as well and see if that affects anything?
[1:10] <AbbyTheRat> raspbain normally enabled ssh by default but *shrug* sounds werid.. normally ports aren't closed either.. possible that it's a router config blocking the ports
[1:11] <blockh34d> yeah thats what makes me think direct connection might not be a total waste
[1:11] <blockh34d> just to see
[1:12] <blockh34d> but i have a thought maybe the router restricts traffic some way across wifi to wired etc... seems unlikely with modern routers but i kind of remember having an old one that did some of that by default
[1:12] * chipotle (~chipotle@c-50-177-28-244.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] <chipotle> anyone here use openelec?
[1:12] <chipotle> i just got my first raspberry pi and want to install openelec on it!
[1:12] <chipotle> any suggestions if i should use the beta or the regular disk image version?
[1:12] <blockh34d> i keep meaning to give it a try
[1:12] * salmon_ (~salmon_@pc1-79.jsn.osi.pl) has left #raspberrypi
[1:12] <blockh34d> XBMC looks cool, i just got a lotta other stuff i want to do with pi in raspbian etc
[1:13] <zz_Kymru> chipotle, yes i do on 2 of my Pi's
[1:13] <blockh34d> i really like raspbian, with a little tweaking you can get a pretty decent 'desktop experience' out of a pi
[1:13] <chipotle> zz_Kymru: would you recommend the beta?
[1:13] * mils (~mils@unaffiliated/mils) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] <chipotle> blockh34d: i have a wdtv live but the ui is terrible
[1:13] <chipotle> so that's why i got a raspberry pi
[1:13] <chipotle> xbmc looks nice
[1:14] <zz_Kymru> chipotle, not unless you want a possible buggy release
[1:14] <zz_Kymru> if you want a good working release go with a regular image
[1:15] <blockh34d> all i watch is my Pi anymore
[1:15] <blockh34d> but i'm using my own app for a UI to omxplayer, adds a playlist and some stuff
[1:16] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:16] <blockh34d> just loads up a few weeks worth of shows and movies, shuffles and plays in the corner of the screen while i do other stuff. No xbmc but good enough for me and uses almost no cpu
[1:16] <chipotle> zz_Kymru: so you think the beta is buggy?
[1:16] <chipotle> darn
[1:16] <chipotle> does hd audio work with raspberry pi btw?
[1:17] <chipotle> like dts-hd?
[1:17] <chipotle> or can i do 5.1 passthrough via optical or hdmi?
[1:17] <zz_Kymru> it may not be, but beta releases are put out for the masses to check and report any unresolved issues so they can be ironed out before the final release
[1:19] * Guegs (~Guegs___@207-47-171-38.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:19] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:19] <chipotle> right
[1:20] <chipotle> anything else i should know about raspberry pi before i setup openelec?
[1:20] <zz_Kymru> yeah its an awesome little computer
[1:20] <chipotle> i'm really excited
[1:20] <chipotle> after this, i'm setting up a pfsense box
[1:21] <chipotle> not using raspberry pi for pfsense though, buying this little box for $145... http://pcengines.ch/apu1c.htm
[1:21] <zz_Kymru> AbbyTheRat, did you get all the parts you wanted for you Pi project?
[1:24] <ffledgling> Blockh34d, no I checked the router config using two laptops before connecting the pi and I also checked the router config via the webui that the routers give
[1:25] <ffledgling> Ring0 tried fiddling with the rc.d scripts as suggested, didnt work, now I dont it doesn't get an IP either
[1:26] * Somniac (~Somniac@a82-2.nat.uq.edu.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:27] <ffledgling> Does the Pi get an IP at not time itself?
[1:27] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-131-171.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:29] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-131-171.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:30] <blockh34d> ffledgling: yah it sounds like it should all work so all i can think of is maybe the rpi isn't fully booting or something
[1:31] <blockh34d> too bad theres no way to test the SD card image setup on a known working system, or see the display enough to know it booted
[1:31] <blockh34d> can you hook up audio to it and make it espeak something at the end of the boot process?
[1:31] <blockh34d> well i guess if you can ping it... it booted
[1:32] <ffledgling> Block yeah looks like it booted
[1:32] <ffledgling> And the scripts in rc2.d has
[1:32] <ffledgling> K02ssh
[1:32] <ffledgling> So it looks like it's disabled by default
[1:33] <blockh34d> yah i've always used NOOBS setup and it sounds a tick different so i'm not really sure whats going on
[1:33] <ffledgling> I'm reflashing with another on age that's known to work, let's see if that helps
[1:33] <ffledgling> *image
[1:34] <ffledgling> Damned auto correct and mobile keyboards. :/
[1:34] * snuffeluffegus (~John@cpe-071-077-227-151.ec.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:34] <ffledgling> Block I have NOOBs but i have no idea how to use it.
[1:35] <ffledgling> *blockh34d ^
[1:36] <ShorTie> you need a screen for NOOBS
[1:37] <ShorTie> to be able to pick os you want to boot
[1:37] <ffledgling> ShorTie, okay, but how exactly do I install/use it?
[1:38] * Geniack (~Geniack@unaffiliated/geniack) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:38] <ShorTie> just copy to the sdcard i believe
[1:38] * MProg (~MProg@unaffiliated/mprog) has left #raspberrypi
[1:38] <ShorTie> well, there are like 2 versions
[1:38] * theaftermath (~theafterm@unaffiliated/theaftermath) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] <ShorTie> net install and 1 with images in it
[1:39] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-98-210-111-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] <ffledgling> I got the one with the images in it.
[1:39] <ffledgling> I just copy everything on to the SDcard?
[1:39] <theaftermath> alright so I'm having a little problem with my board. It was working fine, last I checked, however some months later I plugged it in and the red power light came on and then faded after a few seconds. I'm using a nexus 7 2013 charger and a fresh SD card image.
[1:40] <ShorTie> image 1 most likely need to be writen to it with like win32diskimager
[1:40] <theaftermath> Using a current meter revealed that at first the Pi draws a little power and then all of a sudden starts drawing an amp or two and thats when the power light goes out.
[1:41] * Geniack_ (~Geniack@unaffiliated/geniack) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:41] <ffledgling> ShorTie, I see, unfortunately I don't have internet access on my PC so can't download and try that either. :(
[1:41] <SpeedEvil> theaftermath: do you have anything connected to it?
[1:41] <theaftermath> SpeedEvil absolutely nothing
[1:41] <ShorTie> theaftermath, can you try a different power supply
[1:42] <ShorTie> just for yucks
[1:42] <blockh34d> yah i don't know any good way to get through noobs without screen/kb
[1:42] <blockh34d> that'd be nice though
[1:42] <theaftermath> ShorTie I did do that to get the current measurements. I was actually powering it through the GPIO for those tests.
[1:42] <blockh34d> maybe a system of connecting certian GPIO pins
[1:43] * Portugol9 (Portugol9@unaffiliated/portugol9) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:43] * Portugol9 (~Portugol9@unaffiliated/portugol9) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:44] * ffledgling (~ffledglin@ Quit (Quit: Bye)
[1:45] * ffledgling (~ffledglin@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@cable-178-148-70-163.dynamic.sbb.rs) Quit (Quit: AbouEmre)
[1:46] <AbbyTheRat> zz_Kymru: not yet
[1:46] <AbbyTheRat> but I'm coding away on it
[1:46] <zz_Kymru> AbbyTheRat, what are you missing?
[1:46] <AbbyTheRat> lcd and whole bunch of wires and stuff
[1:46] <AbbyTheRat> since I don't have any of that either
[1:46] <AbbyTheRat> other then tha I'm good
[1:47] <AbbyTheRat> just a case of doign wha I can while waiting for next paycheck
[1:47] <ffledgling> I AM IN !!! :D
[1:47] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-131-171.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:47] <ffledgling> New image helped.
[1:47] * jonno11 (~jonno11@cpc1-walt12-2-0-cust582.13-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:48] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-92-193.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:51] <ffledgling> Does anyone here use their RPi as a media server?
[1:52] <ffledgling> I'd like to hook it up to an HDD, Speakers and then control it via other machines PC and/or mobile
[1:54] <zz_Kymru> 2 of my Pi's are running openelec, movies and tv series are on a netgear readynas
[1:55] * Syliss (~Home2@dpncorp1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[1:59] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:03] * NullWagon (~NullWagon@c-98-228-81-255.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] <ffledgling> Zz_Kymru, what is openelec?
[2:05] <zz_Kymru> http://openelec.tv/
[2:06] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-98-210-111-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: 😴)
[2:07] * chipotle (~chipotle@c-50-177-28-244.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:09] * chipotle (~chipotle@c-50-177-28-244.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:10] <blockh34d> ffledgling: i use it as a media player but its not really the media center experience
[2:11] <blockh34d> more like a desktop running winamp
[2:11] <blockh34d> or vlc etc... that's more how i like it so i can chat and browse on the machine while i watch stuff (Watching archer now)
[2:12] <blockh34d> of course you cant use winamp/vlc on rpi like that, i can't anyways, doesnt run well, so i made a thing for it, you can have a copy if you want, its Scamp in pi store (free)
[2:12] <blockh34d> works for raspbian, no idea about anything else though... Should work on anything that can run omxplayer
[2:12] * aberlin (~aberlin@37-5-33-63-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:13] <ffledgling> Blockh34d, I'm looking for something like a headless server on there pi that plays audio, but one I can control with other machines
[2:13] <blockh34d> yes my app would be perfect for that
[2:13] <blockh34d> you can run it through ssh
[2:13] <blockh34d> its text mode
[2:13] <blockh34d> but it does still have mouse input (curses)
[2:14] <blockh34d> so it uses ascii art for UI elements etc
[2:14] <pksato> ffledgling: mdp
[2:14] <blockh34d> that all works pretty much the same remotely, it just plays on the rpi and operates on your ssh window without any UI on the rpi
[2:14] <ffledgling> Blockh34d, how does it compare to something like cmus, or cvlc?
[2:14] <blockh34d> well its basically just omxplayer
[2:15] <blockh34d> except i add a playlist, seek bar, shuffle, a fullscreen toggle, some stuff like that
[2:15] <blockh34d> clickable audio stream selection
[2:15] <blockh34d> soon it'll support youtube links
[2:15] <ffledgling> Pksato, I've heard about mpd, but never actually got three chance to use it. Maybe this is a good chance.
[2:15] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:15] <blockh34d> also its the most lightweight app i know of like it... 0.3% cpu overhead most of the time
[2:15] <pksato> if only music
[2:16] <blockh34d> omxplayer may use more than that but it would have anyways... scamp's ui is almost invisible to the OS resources
[2:16] <ffledgling> Blockh34d is there a github link?
[2:16] <blockh34d> no sorry its actually not open source yet
[2:16] * snuffeluffegus (~John@cpe-071-077-227-151.ec.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:16] <blockh34d> i think it wont be for the first year
[2:16] <blockh34d> but in pi store it can be added witha couple clicks and then you dont need to run pi store afterwords
[2:16] <ffledgling> How come?
[2:16] <pksato> xmms2
[2:16] <blockh34d> i have not ruled out charging for it some day
[2:17] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2:17] <blockh34d> let me see if the box.net link is most recent
[2:17] <ffledgling> Pksato havent tried that out either.
[2:17] <[Saint]> That doesn't rule out Foss.
[2:17] <blockh34d> i have a box.net link you could have to the same file, but i'm not sure its the most up to date
[2:17] <[Saint]> Re: charging for it
[2:17] * woooden (~woooden@c-98-232-209-134.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:17] <ffledgling> Pksato: These sound interesting
[2:17] <blockh34d> if you use the pi store it can update itself easier btw, that might be nice
[2:17] <[Saint]> Free as in freedom. Not beer. Etc.
[2:18] <[Saint]> But I guess you're more meaning from a competition standpoint.
[2:18] <ffledgling> [Saint] I follow the RMS line of thought but I don't think you can really make money "selling" foss
[2:18] <ffledgling> Supporting maybe... But...
[2:19] <[Saint]> Ha. ...OK.
[2:19] <blockh34d> updating the non pistore link to latest version now
[2:19] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:19] <blockh34d> will send you a link if you want to try it out without using pistore
[2:19] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-98-210-111-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:20] <ffledgling> Blockh34d what is the pistore?
[2:20] <blockh34d> an app that runs in raspbian and maybe other OS's, manages some app installations for you
[2:20] <blockh34d> its basically an inferior sudo apt-get
[2:20] <ffledgling> And how exactly does a store for the pi work? Is there just a repo at the backend?
[2:21] <blockh34d> but it has some kinda nice stuff i guess, and its where and how i'm trying to release apps and games for now
[2:21] * theaftermath (~theafterm@unaffiliated/theaftermath) has left #raspberrypi
[2:21] <blockh34d> well some apps charge so thats where the store comes from
[2:21] <blockh34d> but most are free
[2:21] <blockh34d> but its a very small place
[2:21] <blockh34d> sudo apt-get is where lots of stuff is
[2:21] <[Saint]> Tiny.
[2:21] <blockh34d> incredibly tiny
[2:21] <[Saint]> Its easy to blink and miss it.
[2:21] <blockh34d> like 39 apps total
[2:21] <blockh34d> i'm #39
[2:22] <blockh34d> maybe as many games
[2:22] <[Saint]> Yeah. Good idea implemented terribly, IMO.
[2:22] <blockh34d> but its got some nice stuff
[2:22] <blockh34d> like pi3d
[2:22] <[Saint]> but, oh well.
[2:22] <blockh34d> yah i dunno whats going wrong
[2:22] <ffledgling> So what's the lavished of choice for dev on the Pi? Python? Or good 'ol C CPP?
[2:22] <blockh34d> i think maybe its the app approval process? or soemthing... its just not connecting
[2:22] <ffledgling> *language
[2:22] <blockh34d> me i like the python
[2:22] <blockh34d> but theres lots of options
[2:23] <blockh34d> i like not compiling since its easier on the device in a few ways, so pythons great
[2:23] <ffledgling> I've never packaged a python app for a repo
[2:23] <blockh34d> i dunno if i have either
[2:23] <ffledgling> Always used pip venv and setuptools
[2:23] <blockh34d> pistore packaging is i think unique and mickey-mouse
[2:24] <ffledgling> So how is it distributed installed?
[2:24] <blockh34d> but seems to more or less get it done
[2:24] <ffledgling> Oh, I see.
[2:24] <blockh34d> well you specify a zip file you upload and in it certain files to be run when the app is run, another can be run with its installed and another when its removed
[2:24] <blockh34d> so those three scripts/apps can pretty much setup, run, and remove the thing
[2:24] * pwh (~pwh@c-24-61-11-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:25] <blockh34d> then the pistore mechanism handles storing the contents of that zip somewhere on the users machine and will remove it later if uninstalled
[2:25] <ffledgling> Sounds simple enough.
[2:25] <blockh34d> yah see i htink it'd normally be harder for something like apt-get based release? i cant imagine it'd be that simple
[2:25] <blockh34d> for me the difficulty was getting it approved
[2:25] <blockh34d> took 2 weeks to really even get started
[2:25] <ffledgling> I see
[2:26] <blockh34d> but that was some sort of one time problems i think they encountered, maybe it'd be faster now
[2:26] <blockh34d> i'm going to release a game on it soon
[2:26] <ffledgling> So do you do any kind of hardware hacking as well? Using the GPIO pins?
[2:27] <blockh34d> well i'm powering a small lcd off the power hookups there right now
[2:27] <blockh34d> so that feels pretty hackish cause theres wires connected straight to the pi
[2:27] <ffledgling> Hehe
[2:27] <blockh34d> but its really just powering it so its not relaly that cool
[2:27] <blockh34d> but soon i'll probably be polling a compass, maybe gps, stuff like that
[2:27] <blockh34d> i have a homemade predator helmat i'm making
[2:27] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[2:28] <blockh34d> i want to make a sweet remote control for one or more quadrocopters
[2:28] <ffledgling> I wanted to get started with GPIO stuff any experienced hackers here who can point me to a guide/tutorial?
[2:28] <blockh34d> its going to be more of a helmet than a joystick etc
[2:28] <[Saint]> ffledgling: wiringpi
[2:29] <ffledgling> Blockh34d should be fun, km curious about how you'd control the motor speeds with the pi
[2:29] <[Saint]> Easily. :)
[2:29] <blockh34d> well i was wanting to use ardupilot
[2:29] <blockh34d> but maybe theres something similar for pi
[2:29] * tonsofpcs (~mythbuntu@rivendell/member/tonsofpcs) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:30] <blockh34d> i think maybe helmet will have pi's, drones will have snowballs or maybe just arduinos
[2:30] <blockh34d> probably snowballs though
[2:30] <blockh34d> wiring is so fun i'm glad its on the PI
[2:31] <blockh34d> helmet will probably have 2 pi's, one per display + an odroid u2 or whatever its called to do the number crunching
[2:31] <blockh34d> heavy lifting etc
[2:31] <ffledgling> [Saint] I'm a little more worried about the electronics and hw bit vs controlling pin output
[2:32] <[Saint]> Thankfully its essentially disposable, then. And is reasonably capable of preventing you from killing it.
[2:33] <ffledgling> For example how should I actually be hooking up a motor or an array of leds onto it.
[2:33] <[Saint]> Start at the bottom. Work up. Ask questions. You'll be fine.
[2:33] <ffledgling> Good advice I guess.
[2:33] <ffledgling> Maybe I'll start with trying to get 1 led working.
[2:33] <[Saint]> Wiringpi has a bunch of lessons included.
[2:33] <[Saint]> Invaluable stuff.
[2:34] <blockh34d> yes traditionally you blink a LED first i think
[2:34] <blockh34d> LED blink = GPIO 'hello world'
[2:34] * [Saint] nods
[2:35] <ffledgling> You answered before I finished typing the question. Haha.
[2:35] <blockh34d> then maybe way to adjust blink speed, software or even hook up a potentiometer and poll it
[2:35] <blockh34d> i eventually got a grid of leds dancing around before i got distracted by soemthing even shinier
[2:35] <[Saint]> And then on to making floppy drives play the ghosybusters theme.
[2:35] <[Saint]> It's a natural progression.
[2:35] <blockh34d> haha yes
[2:36] <ffledgling> I also read about a way to do this via writing values to a bunch of fined
[2:36] <blockh34d> next stop, Persistence-Of-Vision
[2:36] <ffledgling> *files
[2:36] <blockh34d> wiring ftw imo
[2:36] <blockh34d> but whatever works is a winner
[2:36] <ffledgling> I don't have floppy drives available. :(
[2:37] <blockh34d> just need the drives
[2:37] <blockh34d> do they even make floppy disks any more?
[2:37] <[Saint]> Sadly. Yes.
[2:37] <blockh34d> the motors can be modified into quadrocoptor motors
[2:37] <ffledgling> Blockh34d I'm trying to get whatever I can that's already installed on the pi
[2:37] <blockh34d> someday i hope to make a motor out of nothing
[2:37] <ffledgling> Woah. Wait. What?
[2:37] <blockh34d> recycled nothing into wire and then wrapped a motor out of that wire
[2:38] <ffledgling> You can use the floppy drive motors for turning stuff? :0
[2:38] <blockh34d> ffledgling: oh i see, yah not sure if wiring is on there or not, i honestly have not needed or used any of the GPIO stuff on a RPI yet
[2:38] <blockh34d> yes, quickly
[2:38] <[Saint]> Hint: motor
[2:39] <blockh34d> but to do it very quickly, you need to gut the motors and rewrap them, according to some DIY tut i read ages ago
[2:39] <ffledgling> [Saint] haha yes, but don't they have like device drivers and things to move them?
[2:39] <blockh34d> is it possible to burn out your pi driving motors directly off the GPIO pins?
[2:40] <blockh34d> or damage it in any permanent way?
[2:40] <ffledgling> That's depend on how much the motor pulls?
[2:40] * harish (~harish@ Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[2:40] <[Saint]> blockh34d: only if you've disabled the safeguards or avoided them.
[2:40] * ffledgling guesses
[2:41] <[Saint]> Draw too much and you'll trip the polyfuse.
[2:41] <blockh34d> [Saint]: like by powering my pi from the USB hubs supply from its USB host port (not the power port)?
[2:41] <[Saint]> No harm done.
[2:41] <blockh34d> yah i don't use the power hookup
[2:41] <blockh34d> the hub provides current up the pipe
[2:41] <blockh34d> i've heard that bypasses the polyfuse, any idea? i don't know
[2:41] <ffledgling> [Saint] what kind of safe guards are there and how do you change them?
[2:41] <[Saint]> An example would be powering over GPIO, avoiding surge protection.
[2:42] <blockh34d> yah thats my concern
[2:42] <blockh34d> that i'm basically doing that but via USB
[2:43] * techwave61 (~py@ool-18b9bd01.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:43] <blockh34d> guess if i start hacking motors i should use the power hookup
[2:43] <blockh34d> but i feel like i'm going to farm all that out to arduinos anyways
[2:44] <blockh34d> they want to do stuff! its a good thing for arduinos to do i think
[2:44] <blockh34d> so mickey mouse and kind of irrelevant now with RPI
[2:44] <blockh34d> really gotta want to use one i think
[2:44] * __raven (~raven@dslb-088-067-062-233.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:46] * Hydra (~Hydra@5751c98f.skybroadband.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:49] <[Saint]> Bah.
[2:49] <[Saint]> Stoopid DST.
[2:49] <blockh34d> fix it with FIRE
[2:49] <blockh34d> and nunchuks
[2:50] <[Saint]> Time cares not for nunchucks :)
[2:50] <[Saint]> Nor fire. Sadly.
[2:51] <[Saint]> I absolutely HATE DST. Twice a year we get all mixed up because someone decided it was too dark in the morning.
[2:51] * zz_Kymru is now known as zz_zz_Kymru
[2:51] <[Saint]> ...or too light at night.
[2:51] <[Saint]> One of the two.
[2:53] <blockh34d> time waits for no nunchks
[2:53] <[Saint]> I live right in the middle of the city anyway, so we pretty much don't even get a "night". I can hardly remember the last time I saw any but the brightest stars here.
[2:54] <[Saint]> There's about a dozen stars in my orange, disgusting, polluted (with light and actual pollution) night sky.
[2:55] <[Saint]> Gotta go out about ~100km from the city to get a decent view.
[2:55] * pwnz0r (~pwnz0r@c-107-3-169-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:57] <ffledgling> Saint, where do you live?
[2:57] <[Saint]> Christchurch, New Zealand.
[2:58] <[Saint]> It's not the beacon of cleanliness our tourism authorities would like you to think it is.
[2:58] <[Saint]> We haven't been "the garden city" for an age.
[2:58] <ffledgling> Huh. I always imagined New Zealand add one of the better off countries in terms of pollution.
[2:58] * jonno11 (~jonno11@cpc1-walt12-2-0-cust582.13-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[2:58] <ffledgling> S/add/as/
[2:59] <[Saint]> Christchurch is badly positioned in this regard. All the smog gets pushed in from offshore winds against the Canterbury Ranges and gets stuck there.
[2:59] <[Saint]> It doesn't really have anywhere to go.
[3:00] <[Saint]> On a nice clear day if you go up to the hills you can see this disgusting orange haze sitting over the city.
[3:01] <[Saint]> Were no China, that's sure. But were definitely not what tourists like to believe.
[3:01] <ffledgling> Oh. :/
[3:01] <ffledgling> Anything the govt/people do to improve the situation?
[3:02] <[Saint]> We banned open fires and leaded petrol additives years ago but it hasn't really helped much.
[3:02] <[Saint]> Its more a geographic thing. Were in a basin with hills backing us.
[3:04] * ffledgling wonders if it's possible to set up city level air filters
[3:07] <blockh34d> i think so
[3:07] <blockh34d> you need a different kind of city though
[3:07] <blockh34d> i envision a future city shaped like a clump of bubbles
[3:07] <blockh34d> i bet that could do it
[3:07] * jonno11 (~jonno11@cpc1-walt12-2-0-cust582.13-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:08] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-92-193.netcologne.de) Quit ()
[3:08] <blockh34d> i wonder if someone could extract more fuel supply out of smog by igniting it at a high enough temp or something
[3:09] <ffledgling> Oh btw
[3:09] <ffledgling> Does anyone know if I can power an external HDD via the pi?
[3:10] <blockh34d> i think that depends on your power supply and hd
[3:10] <ffledgling> Or does that tax the powersupply ?
[3:10] <ffledgling> Umm I'm using a Nexus 4 charger
[3:10] <blockh34d> what amperage output?
[3:10] <blockh34d> it should say on it like 1a, 2a, maybe 500ma or something like that
[3:11] <blockh34d> probably 1a or 2a
[3:11] * rdbell (~rdbell@cpe-107-184-102-10.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:11] <ffledgling> And my hdd is a transcend 25H3
[3:11] <blockh34d> you want at least 1a and for external drive who knows, maybe more
[3:11] <ffledgling> Let me check power req and out on both
[3:11] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:11] <ShorTie> i'd say 2a
[3:12] <blockh34d> yah if you could power your hd from seperate power supply i bet thats a sure way to go, but I wonder if its really necessary
[3:13] <ffledgling> 1.2A on the charger.
[3:13] <ffledgling> Says 5V on the hdd
[3:13] <blockh34d> i think you're ok then
[3:13] <ffledgling> But no current specs
[3:13] <blockh34d> cause the hd probably uses 500 ma or less
[3:13] <blockh34d> cause thats all a standard usb outlet provides
[3:13] <blockh34d> so 1200 ma minus 500 ma leaves you with the 700ma minimum necessary to run a RPI
[3:14] <blockh34d> but you might want to find a 2a somewhere
[3:14] <blockh34d> also watch out for certain wires/connectors, they can bleed your output
[3:14] <blockh34d> btw 5v and 2a are differnet units of measurement
[3:14] <ffledgling> I know
[3:14] <ffledgling> Voltage and amperes
[3:14] <blockh34d> cool i might have explained if you werent already familiar
[3:15] <ffledgling> Basic physics really helps. :p
[3:15] * hyperair (hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:16] <ffledgling> At least one is not completely out of their depth when someone says resistors and voltage and current
[3:16] <blockh34d> science in general, ftw
[3:16] <blockh34d> but what about FLUX CAPACITORS?
[3:16] <blockh34d> lol
[3:19] * k03ll (~galactica@ Quit (Quit: So say we all!)
[3:20] * koell (~galactica@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:21] * rdbell (~rdbell@cpe-107-184-102-10.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: rdbell)
[3:24] <ffledgling> I know a little bit about capacitors
[3:24] <blockh34d> flux capacitor is from BAck to the Future (movie)
[3:24] <ffledgling> But uhh nothing about flux capacitors in particular
[3:24] <blockh34d> made up
[3:24] <ffledgling> Oh haven't seen the movie.
[3:24] <blockh34d> which should be illegal
[3:25] <blockh34d> that may be the finest trilogy hollywood ever made
[3:25] <ffledgling> If only Netflix came to India. :p
[3:25] <blockh34d> great acting, great story, great execution... all around top notch
[3:25] <blockh34d> yeah watch that one some day
[3:25] <blockh34d> and the sequels, they're worth it
[3:25] * YeahRight (morgoth@5249A753.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:26] <ffledgling> Better than the man with no name trilogy? :O
[3:26] <blockh34d> the what?
[3:26] <blockh34d> lol dunno that one
[3:26] <ffledgling> Um.
[3:26] <blockh34d> is it good?
[3:26] <ffledgling> The good the bad and the ugly.
[3:26] <ffledgling> Fist full of dollars
[3:26] <blockh34d> is that a eastwood western?
[3:26] <blockh34d> oh right
[3:26] <ffledgling> Yeah.
[3:26] <blockh34d> well i like scifi
[3:27] <[Saint]> You can only hope to get about 900mA out of as pi, with any given PSU.
[3:27] <blockh34d> so back to the future is more my speed
[3:27] <blockh34d> also what i understadn is the west wasnt much like it was shown
[3:27] <[Saint]> SO, no. Powering external disks is in the "not a good idea" category.
[3:27] <blockh34d> no real gun fights like that
[3:27] <ffledgling> [Saint] psu?
[3:27] <[Saint]> Power Supply Unit
[3:28] <blockh34d> t minus 4 until i am 3D PRINTING
[3:28] <blockh34d> 4 days
[3:28] <blockh34d> i am so stoked
[3:28] <[Saint]> With a model B you get about 900mA to play with when giving it as much juice as possible.
[3:28] <[Saint]> And the USB ports will only supply 500mA each.
[3:29] <blockh34d> [Saint]: remember how i'm powering my setup? what about if the drive was plugged into that powered hub?
[3:29] <ffledgling> Blockh34d 'course it's not, but can you object about not sticking close to reality when you're a scifi fan ? :P
[3:29] <ShorTie> but that would trip the 700ma poly fuses wouldn't it
[3:29] <[Saint]> blockh34d: then the hub is powering it.
[3:29] <[Saint]> Making said limits irrelevant to you.
[3:29] <ffledgling> [Saint] I figured it's not the best idea, so using a flag drive for the time being.
[3:29] <blockh34d> ffledgling: somehow, yes. the second chapter of back to the future is all in the west, and I liked it quite a bit
[3:30] <blockh34d> old west i mean
[3:30] <blockh34d> clint eastwood is pretty ok i guess
[3:30] <blockh34d> he squints pretty good
[3:30] <ffledgling> s/flag/flash/
[3:31] <ffledgling> Man i sound just give up. Mobile phones are not meant for extended periods of topping. <sigh>
[3:31] <blockh34d> I think sam elliott is a better version of clint eastwood
[3:31] <[Saint]> ffledgling: if you're powering an external spinning platter...use a powered hub.
[3:31] <ffledgling> *talking damnit.
[3:32] <blockh34d> yah thats for sure
[3:32] <ffledgling> Saint, what's a powered hub?
[3:32] <[Saint]> An external USB hub with its own power supply.
[3:32] <ffledgling> Like a normal USB hub with two usb ports?
[3:32] <ffledgling> Oh okay.
[3:32] <blockh34d> hub that plugs into wall also
[3:33] <ffledgling> My hdd actually has two usb ports for the same cable
[3:33] <ffledgling> I guess one of them can be used for extra power in cases like this.
[3:33] <[Saint]> Right. Meaning it wants a full AMp.
[3:33] <blockh34d> yah that means you couldnt really hope to run that straight off rpi
[3:33] <blockh34d> not a chance
[3:33] <[Saint]> Nup.
[3:34] <ffledgling> I never really used/needed it with my laptop though.
[3:34] <[Saint]> Many USB ports don't follow spec.
[3:34] <blockh34d> laptop usb maybe special mode can output more than 500 ma
[3:34] <ffledgling> So I'm not quite sure.
[3:34] <[Saint]> Its rather hilarious.
[3:34] <[Saint]> USB spec is a best effort "I tried" type deal it seems.
[3:34] <ffledgling> I have a multimeter at hand ...
[3:35] <ffledgling> I wonder if it's possible to test ...
[3:35] <blockh34d> i think you need a different meter to measure amp draw
[3:35] <blockh34d> not sure what you call that or if i'm even right aobut that
[3:36] <ffledgling> Hmm I thought you could measure both voltage and current using a multimeter
[3:37] <ShorTie> normally
[3:37] <[Saint]> Indeedy.
[3:37] <ShorTie> but to measure amp the meter needs to be in series
[3:38] <ShorTie> where voltage you are measuring in parallel
[3:38] * D30 (~deo@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:38] <ffledgling> It has settings for choosing the amp range so I'm guessing it can work.
[3:38] <blockh34d> is measuring current the same as measuring the amperage draw of a circuit?
[3:39] <ShorTie> Yes
[3:39] <ffledgling> ShorTie it's a digital multimeter I think I just turn the knob and it takes care of that on its own?
[3:39] <blockh34d> like i could measure the available amperage than measure while using circuit, log difference and thats what the circuit uses?
[3:39] <ShorTie> cureent is measured in amp
[3:39] <ShorTie> nop
[3:39] <ffledgling> Ampere is the SI unit for current.
[3:40] <ffledgling> Or what ShorTie said.
[3:40] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:40] <ShorTie> you can not measure 'available amperage', you can only measure the amps you are using
[3:40] <blockh34d> oh ok thanks i'm always a little fuzzy on the particulars there
[3:41] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:41] * TheOnionRack (~TheOnionR@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:41] <blockh34d> maybe thats what i was thinking of earlier, i kind of remember a specialized meter just for something about amperage measuring
[3:41] <ffledgling> To get an approximation of available ampereage wouldn't you just check the current on empty circuit... ?
[3:42] <ffledgling> Oh no an empty circuit doesn't use any amps...
[3:42] <ShorTie> there is no current flow in an 'empty' circuit
[3:42] <ffledgling> Yeah, just hit me.
[3:42] <ffledgling> You can do what blockh34d was saying for voltage though.
[3:43] <ffledgling> But uhh wait. Voltage remains constant typically
[3:43] <ShorTie> best you can do is look at what it is rated at to know how much it can deliver
[3:44] <ffledgling> How do I measure the amps available on the USB port though?
[3:45] <ShorTie> only way is to have a variable load that you can decrease to increase the current and see when it fails
[3:46] <ShorTie> when it goes poof, you know you went to far, lol.
[3:46] <ffledgling> Not the best idea with usb ports connected to the motherboard ...
[3:46] <ShorTie> nop
[3:48] <ShorTie> 500ma should be a safe bet, and is the actual usb spec i believe, but it seems like you can draw up to 1a most of the time
[3:48] <ffledgling> I don't think I want to range that chance just yet.
[3:49] <ffledgling> I'd it possible to boot the pi via liveUSB?
[3:49] <ffledgling> (Flash drives are okay on voltage right?)
[3:49] <ShorTie> nop, gotta have a sdcard for the boot loader
[3:49] <ShorTie> ya, flash drives are ok
[3:49] * lvispy (~luiz@179-125-129-2.desktop.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:50] <ffledgling> ShorTie but I can have my grub and everything on the flash drive?
[3:50] <ffledgling> Wait grub is the bootloader.
[3:50] <ShorTie> and they are easy to use, just write the image to it and a small change in config.txt
[3:50] <ffledgling> What are easy to use?
[3:50] <ShorTie> to point / to it
[3:50] <ffledgling> The SDcards?
[3:51] <ShorTie> a usb flash drive to hold your os for the pi
[3:51] <ffledgling> Okay.
[3:51] <ffledgling> Must try this.
[3:52] <ffledgling> Because I think I'll get better performance
[3:52] <ffledgling> In terms of disk i/o
[3:52] <ffledgling> Probably twice my current speed
[3:52] <ShorTie> here, this might help
[3:52] <ShorTie> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=12015
[3:53] <[Saint]> You can only hope for around 20Mb/s
[3:53] <[Saint]> No matter the media.
[3:53] <ShorTie> pi is not known for kill usb/lan performance cause the use the same stuff
[3:53] <ShorTie> killer*
[3:54] <[Saint]> yeah, picking a balance between network and USB is difficult.
[3:54] <[Saint]> (for some tasks)
[3:54] <ffledgling> I get 10Mbps with my SD card.
[3:55] <ffledgling> But it's a class 10 so the promised speed is 30Mbps
[3:55] <[Saint]> You'll never get that.
[3:55] <[Saint]> Not here.
[3:55] <[Saint]> (that's also a rather slow card, if I might say so)
[3:58] * _cheney (~cheney@nat.sierrabravo.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[3:59] * k03ll (~galactica@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:59] * ffledgling (~ffledglin@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[4:01] * koell (~galactica@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:02] * DataLinkDroid (~DataLinkD@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:03] * lvispy (~luiz@179-125-129-2.desktop.com.br) Quit ()
[4:05] * Guegs (~Guegs___@207-47-246-154.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:05] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p2127-ipbf2705souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:06] * zz_zz_Kymru is now known as zz_zz_zz_Kymru
[4:14] * retrosenator (~sean@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:14] <retrosenator> gpu is open now?
[4:14] <[Saint]> ish.
[4:14] * pwnz0r (~pwnz0r@c-107-3-169-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:14] <retrosenator> ?
[4:15] <[Saint]> open-ish.
[4:15] <[Saint]> AFAIK its still not possible to go entirely blobless yet.
[4:16] <blockh34d> clever has got some neat stuff going
[4:16] * clever waves
[4:16] <blockh34d> they got me walked though the installation of their made driver, it spun a colored triangle on my screen
[4:16] <blockh34d> hi clever
[4:16] <retrosenator> opengles?
[4:16] <blockh34d> hows going
[4:16] <[Saint]> 'git 'em pa.
[4:17] <retrosenator> or can it do big gl too?
[4:17] <clever> retrosenator: the specs for the gpu are open, the info on how to actualy use it is missing
[4:17] <retrosenator> clever: I thought they released the source code to their driver
[4:17] <clever> retrosenator: the triangle demo doesnt even use gl, its just raw gpu calls
[4:17] <clever> that driver is for a different cpu with similar features
[4:17] * DataLinkDroid (~DataLinkD@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:18] <clever> somebody else ported that to the pi and won the prize
[4:18] <clever> i was working on a complete rewrite of it
[4:18] <blockh34d> yah i like the sound of yours
[4:18] <[Saint]> Yeah - I'm not sure how I feel about that.
[4:18] <retrosenator> clever: why
[4:18] <[Saint]> /technically/, the prize conditions were met.
[4:18] <clever> not sure, lol
[4:18] <blockh34d> direct access to triangle buffers sounds like a nice idea for a PI
[4:18] <[Saint]> But I'm almost positive this wasn't what the foundation was hoping for.
[4:18] <clever> [Saint]: yeah, thats kind of why i didnt just fix their source
[4:18] <retrosenator> I would prever it via opengl...
[4:19] <clever> retrosenator: i have made SDL and openGL 'work' in one program, for a single fram
[4:19] <clever> http://gallery.earthtools.ca/index.py/v3d2/out.png
[4:19] <[Saint]> Quite some time ago, too.
[4:19] <clever> this is wowmapview running on my pi
[4:19] <[Saint]> clever was poking at this before the idea of large monetary gain.
[4:19] <clever> its able to open the warcraft data files, find the map list, and then render the list on the screen with opengl/sdl
[4:19] * woooden (~woooden@c-98-232-209-134.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: woooden)
[4:19] <[Saint]> ...which is now not an option.
[4:20] <retrosenator> I have been getting a project I'm working on to work with opengles and optimizing for arms.. but I'm using a cubie board so far
[4:20] <retrosenator> in theory it should work on raspberrypi
[4:20] <[Saint]> Its a bit of a meta-discussion, but, how do you feel abotut eh prize being won, clever?
[4:21] <[Saint]> I take it I'm not the only one that isn't terribly happy.
[4:21] <[Saint]> I mean, its great...but.
[4:21] <retrosenator> does anyone have a link to this prize so I can read about it?
[4:21] <retrosenator> because it sounds like they didn't actually do anythinng useful
[4:21] * EastLight (n@ Quit ()
[4:21] <[Saint]> Not terribly useful, no. But they met the conditions of the competition.
[4:22] <clever> [Saint]: i didnt think i really had that big of a chance, since i knew almost nothing about gl
[4:22] <[Saint]> I think it kinda backfired.
[4:22] <[Saint]> The Foundation (I expect) was hoping for a reference driver.
[4:22] <clever> sort of like what ive been doing?
[4:22] * [Saint] nods
[4:23] <retrosenator> I want to be able to at least run es2_gears
[4:23] <clever> the only thing holding me back right now is the vertex shader and coordinate shaders
[4:23] <retrosenator> clever: does it work without this? openglesv1?
[4:23] <clever> retrosenator: no gles present at all
[4:23] <retrosenator> oh, only big gl?
[4:24] <clever> yeah
[4:24] <clever> thats what wowmapview used
[4:24] <retrosenator> ok, much harder I think because of all the details
[4:24] <clever> a raw list of libs its using, http://pastebin.com/wEBD10pA
[4:24] * woooden (~woooden@c-98-232-209-134.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:24] <retrosenator> to actually get it 100% compatible that is
[4:24] * YeahRight (morgoth@5249A753.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:25] * [Saint] tries to think of a way the competition could've been worded in order to avoid this "technical win"
[4:25] <[Saint]> ...wholly irrelevant, of course. Since, past tense.
[4:25] <[Saint]> But man...I have the feeling it backfired so hard.
[4:25] <[Saint]> I find it hard to believe that this was what they wanted as an end result.
[4:25] <clever> http://pastebin.com/0BR7ubGf
[4:26] <clever> reformated the paste to make things more clear
[4:26] <clever> line 2 is a patched libSDL to support my gl library
[4:26] * Poison[BLX] (poisonbl@iceland.sdf.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:26] <clever> 3/4 i wrote from scratch, libGL provides the gl api, libV3D2 handles the kernel interface
[4:26] <clever> 6/7/8 are for dispmanx
[4:27] * pwnz0r (~pwnz0r@c-107-3-169-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:28] * zzach (~zzach@dslb-084-063-144-204.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:28] <[Saint]> "Security sources believe a spam message from her mobile phone operator wishing her a happy new year received just hours before the planned attack triggered her suicide belt, killing her but nobody else."
[4:29] <[Saint]> Hahahaha.
[4:29] <[Saint]> And that is why unsolicited SMS should be illegal. ;)
[4:29] <clever> thats something i always think about when i see a bomber making a cellphone bomb in movies :P
[4:30] <clever> you should atleast have an arming switch to disable it until your ready
[4:30] <[Saint]> Rajesh calling from some outsourced call center offering you a discounted toll call plan.
[4:30] <clever> but at that point, why even bother making it remote controled via cell?
[4:31] <clever> https://github.com/cleverca22/gl/blob/master/core.c
[4:31] <clever> [Saint]: here is what ive written for the GL api so far
[4:31] <clever> how does it look?
[4:31] <[Saint]> Well, this just came full circle.
[4:31] <[Saint]> I wonder when the first pieces of raspi IED are going to be found.
[4:31] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:31] * pwnz0r (~pwnz0r@c-107-3-169-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:31] <[Saint]> Cheap reliable platform.
[4:32] * clever pokes retrosenator
[4:33] <tonsofpcs> [Saint]: raspi is relatively expensive for a simple ('dumb') controller
[4:34] <clever> i could do it with just an xbee and nothing more
[4:34] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:184:b26:ca17:3bf8) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
[4:34] <tonsofpcs> I mean, a 555 and a hand half-full of caps and resistors (and maybe some transistors and diodes) can do most control work
[4:34] <clever> the xbee has built in crypto (no more false triggers) and remote gpio control
[4:34] <tonsofpcs> and tht's even expensive for some things
[4:34] <clever> tonsofpcs: depends, do you want timer, or remote?
[4:34] <retrosenator> clever: sorry someone came to visit me.. reading backlog now
[4:35] <[Saint]> BRB, ASIO, NSA, and GCHQ knocking at the door...
[4:35] <clever> [Saint]: ive already been told 2 or 3 times that the fbi are watching me :P
[4:35] <clever> mostly by script kiddies who think they can scare me off
[4:36] <clever> one of them, when i refused to go away, he called my ISP up and claimed i was spreading a virus
[4:36] <clever> then the modem stopped working :P
[4:36] <retrosenator> clever: a lot of open source drivers (like lima for example) are built into mesa so you can start small but have full opengl support with software fallbacks
[4:36] * [Saint] changes the topic to #raspberrypi: improvised explosive support channel
[4:36] <clever> retrosenator: i dont know much about mesa internals yet
[4:37] <retrosenator> since they put chips in the passports.. I"m afraid someone takes a rpi and attaches an rfid scanner to set off a bomb if a US national walks near it
[4:37] <clever> it was simpler to just implement glVertex2s and glTexCoord2f
[4:37] <[Saint]> retrosenator: trivially avoided.
[4:37] <[Saint]> VERY trivially.
[4:37] <clever> after i implement those 2, wowmapview just hands me exactly what i need
[4:37] <clever> and i can render it easily
[4:38] <retrosenator> [Saint]: yes, of course, wrap it in foil.. but very few people will do this
[4:38] <[Saint]> Wrap RFID'd thing is tin foil. Boom. Farrady cage.
[4:38] <clever> retrosenator: would need an rfid reader on the right freq, with enough power to boost the range
[4:38] <retrosenator> clever: it can work up to a few meters quite easily
[4:38] <[Saint]> Yep.
[4:38] * taza (~zap@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[4:38] <[Saint]> See: supermarket anti-theft systems
[4:39] <retrosenator> anyway, only about .001% of people even think about doing this
[4:39] <[Saint]> I dunno. I would say those who /think/ about such things are greater in number.
[4:39] <[Saint]> Those that carry it out, however.
[4:40] <retrosenator> good point also
[4:40] <clever> yeah
[4:40] <[Saint]> I think everyone has thought at some point "I could just kill that guy".
[4:40] <retrosenator> clever: my application is 2d also...
[4:40] <[Saint]> The difference is follow through.
[4:40] <clever> retrosenator: it might work as-is with my code
[4:41] <clever> once i fix the texture stuff
[4:41] <retrosenator> seriously doubt that
[4:41] <retrosenator> it uses display lists and a lot of other things
[4:41] <clever> ah
[4:41] <clever> id have to add support for that then
[4:42] <clever> https://github.com/cleverca22/hackdriver/blob/master/tformat.c
[4:42] <clever> ive only tested the t-format stuff on a 256x256 image so far
[4:42] <retrosenator> well I'm using glshim
[4:42] <clever> so i'm not sure how it will react to other texture sizes
[4:42] <retrosenator> which provides support for opengl on top of opengles
[4:42] <retrosenator> since opengles doesn't have display lists
[4:42] <clever> ah
[4:43] <clever> one of the very first things i had to do was basically a display list
[4:43] <retrosenator> but also now, I"m using etc1 compressed textures... heh
[4:43] <retrosenator> clever: I recommend just implement opengles2
[4:43] <clever> the v3d engine has 3 types of processors, and a total of 50 physical cores
[4:44] <clever> 194 virtual cores
[4:44] <clever> the first one is the binner, which will take a list of triangles and the screen setup, and it decides which 64x64 pixel tile every triangle overlaps with
[4:45] <retrosenator> clever: is there some way you can use a gpu assembler to improve code readability?
[4:45] <clever> that generates a subroutine for every 64x64pixel tile and stores it in a chunk of ram
[4:45] <retrosenator> so each core works on 64x64?
[4:45] <clever> the renderer code then runs those subroutines, to render each tile one by one
[4:45] * mpmc is now known as mpmc[BNC4FREE]
[4:46] <clever> both of them appear to be low speed management cores
[4:46] <clever> all it does is control the QPU stuff
[4:46] <clever> the real power is in the QPU area, there are 12 QPU's (quad processor units)
[4:47] <clever> each QPU contains 4 physical cores (48 cores total)
[4:47] <clever> and due to how the pipeline works, each core runs 4 threads in parallel, (interleaving them on the pipeline)
[4:47] <clever> so a single QPU is running the same shader 16 times, on 16 different pixels
[4:48] <clever> for any pixel inside every triangle
[4:48] <clever> retrosenator: which code do you think isnt readable right now?, that you think the gpu assembler would help with
[4:49] <retrosenator> stuff in core.c
[4:49] <clever> ah those control lists
[4:49] <retrosenator> I just wonder if it's possible to do cleaner
[4:49] <clever> yeah, i have had plans to replace each of those addbyte messes with a function call
[4:49] <retrosenator> ah ok
[4:49] <clever> just havent done it, that code is fairly fixed
[4:50] <retrosenator> fair enough..
[4:50] <retrosenator> so.. do you support compressed textures and/or mipmaps?
[4:50] <clever> i still havent figured out what mipmaps are, and the QPU core only supports t-format textures
[4:51] <retrosenator> it may be possible to decode compressed textures as a shader program
[4:51] <retrosenator> mipmaps... they are fairly common and have existed for decades.. you should learn what they are
[4:51] <clever> there is a dedicated texture lookup unit, you give it a few parameters
[4:51] <[Saint]> precalculated texture maps, basically.
[4:51] <[Saint]> (iirc)
[4:52] <clever> texture memory address (physical addr), texture width/height
[4:52] <clever> and then a floating point x/y in the texture (range 0.0-1.0)
[4:52] <[Saint]> Primarily for speeding up render times.
[4:52] <clever> and then the QPU will just magicaly return the color of the pixel at that point
[4:52] <retrosenator> ah, so it doesn't support texture compression?
[4:52] <clever> not that ive seen
[4:52] <retrosenator> also paletized textures
[4:53] <clever> but you do have control over bits per pixel
[4:53] <retrosenator> so there are many formats?
[4:53] <clever> i dont think it has palet, but you can make 1 bit per pixel (black or white) and then use glColor to shade it
[4:53] * jonno11 (~jonno11@cpc1-walt12-2-0-cust582.13-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[4:53] <clever> let me check the pdf again
[4:53] <retrosenator> right.. so you can implement that extension using shaders
[4:54] <clever> right now i'm doing glColor with varyings
[4:54] <clever> for each vertex, i push 3 floats, rgb, and i set all 3 corners to the same value
[4:54] * pwh (~pwh@c-24-61-11-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit ()
[4:54] <clever> so the shader can read that out, and blend that color with the texture color (solid white in this case)
[4:55] <clever> VideoCoreIV-AG100-R.pdf page 105 explains the texture format
[4:55] <[Saint]> Just make sure not to do your math like these guys: http://i.imgur.com/KtLBi85.png
[4:55] <clever> it handles 64, 32, 16, 8, 4, or 1 bit per pixel
[4:55] <retrosenator> I think implementing GL_OES_compressed_palette_texture would be possible
[4:56] <clever> thats pretty far off, lol
[4:56] <retrosenator> but using internally 2 textures.. one is the palette
[4:56] <clever> that might be possible
[4:56] <clever> but there is the issue of the zoom controls
[4:56] <retrosenator> the other formats would be tricky and possibly too slow to be of much use
[4:57] <clever> if you have a 16x16 pixel image, and you ask the qpu to read pixel 0.5,0.5
[4:57] <clever> it will read pixels 00 01 10 11, and then average them together
[4:57] <retrosenator> ah right
[4:57] <clever> which gives a smooth edge when inflating an image
[4:57] <retrosenator> isn't that controlled? normally there is GL_LINEAR and GL_NEAREST
[4:57] <clever> but that will average the palet indexes together
[4:57] <clever> yeah, there is a flag for that
[4:58] <retrosenator> but really you want to get the 4 values, and then read palette.. then average that
[4:58] <clever> page 43 of the pdf
[4:58] <clever> you can do either linear or nearest for mag
[4:58] <retrosenator> where do I get this pdf?
[4:59] <clever> and for min filter, linear, nearest, near_mip_near, near_mip_lin, lin_mip_near, or lin_mip_lin
[4:59] <retrosenator> oh, so it has mipmaps.. good
[4:59] <clever> yep
[4:59] <clever> i just dont know what they do, so i cant understand how to implement them
[4:59] <clever> http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/VideoCoreIV-AG100-R.pdf
[4:59] * SirLagz (~SirLagz@ppp121-45-237-27.lns20.per1.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:59] <clever> page 43 explains the min and mag filter modes
[5:00] <clever> 42/43 (table 18) has the pixel format for textures
[5:00] <retrosenator> ok.. downloading
[5:00] <clever> ah, it does have compressed
[5:00] <clever> ericcson texture compression format
[5:00] <retrosenator> yeah!
[5:00] <clever> whatever that is
[5:00] * Keyman009 (~user@68-191-255-54.static.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:00] <retrosenator> I just implemented etc1 in the program last night
[5:00] <Keyman009> Anyone have trouble getting their wireless card to connect on bootup? I have been trrying to get the config right but I must be missing something. If I do and ifdown wlan0 and an ifup wlan0 it connects to my wifi fine.
[5:00] <retrosenator> clever: that is what I need.. etc1 format
[5:01] <clever> retrosenator: ive been using type 0, RGBA8888
[5:01] <clever> but its just a matter of setting a field to 8 to make it use ect1 format
[5:01] <retrosenator> yes, also very slow at 32bits per pixel
[5:01] <retrosenator> etc1 is 4 bits per pixel
[5:01] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:01] <clever> i was getting 260 fps on the triangle demo
[5:01] * MrVector (~Vector@host31-54-24-40.range31-54.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[5:01] <retrosenator> clever: I'm deaing with gigabytes of imagery
[5:02] <clever> ouch
[5:02] <retrosenator> it's not exactly fast to read from an sd card
[5:02] <clever> how much image data for a single frame?
[5:02] <retrosenator> depends on the view, and resolution used
[5:02] <retrosenator> but typically it's up to 120mb uncompressed
[5:02] <retrosenator> or only 20mb or so compressed
[5:03] <clever> ah
[5:03] <retrosenator> of course much of this is re-used in the next frame
[5:03] * MrVector (~Vector@host31-54-24-40.range31-54.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:03] <retrosenator> but you can see why compression makes a big difference
[5:03] <clever> https://github.com/cleverca22/gl/blob/master/core.c#L499
[5:03] <clever> retrosenator: see these 2 lines?
[5:03] <retrosenator> yes
[5:04] <clever> when you write the xy of the texture to the TMU module
[5:04] <clever> it will automaticaly read those from the uniform buffer
[5:04] <clever> that goes into config paramater 0&1, on page 41 of the pdf
[5:04] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[5:04] * RiXtEr_ (uid21777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-snnrtnkvpaxxwssu) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[5:05] <clever> the first 32 bits are mipmap levels, texture data type, flip enabled, cube map mode, cache sizzle, and the hardware addr
[5:05] <clever> then you have the width/height in pixels, another bit of the texture type, and the min/mag filters and other stuff
[5:05] <retrosenator> also LUMALPHA is very useful.. I use this quite a bit
[5:06] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit ()
[5:06] <clever> the fonts in wowmapview are purely alpha
[5:06] <retrosenator> oh it can do yuv also
[5:06] <clever> the entire image is solid white, and only the alpha channel varries
[5:06] <retrosenator> yeah, that is common as well
[5:07] <clever> so i could set things to use type 6, but i'm not sure what the proper GL api to advertise that is
[5:07] <retrosenator> GL_ALPHA
[5:07] <clever> also, all yuv content ive dealt with is planar, not raster
[5:07] <clever> i had fun just getting dispmanx to accept planar data
[5:07] <retrosenator> so you convert it in glTexImage2D
[5:08] <clever> the userspace code for dispmanx expects a raster height of the image
[5:08] <retrosenator> actually.. a shader could convert it from 3 textures to 1
[5:08] <clever> if you want to copy the other planes, you have to give it a height several times taller then the real image
[5:08] <retrosenator> or that
[5:08] <clever> i'm not 100% sure, but i think types 0 thru 15 are all in t-format
[5:09] <clever> only types 16&17 are raster
[5:09] <clever> t-format is nutty
[5:09] <clever> you start with 64 byte tiles (pixel size depends on bits per pixel)
[5:09] <retrosenator> I don't know what t-format is
[5:09] <clever> and then you arrange them in an even more nutty layout
[5:10] <clever> page 105
[5:10] <clever> each sub-tile is 64 bytes
[5:10] <retrosenator> oh, interesting.. my program does tiles with 512x512 pixels
[5:10] <retrosenator> because the images are all like 10000x20000
[5:11] <clever> then you form a sub-tile out of 16 of them, 4x4 subtiles, exactly 1024 bytes
[5:11] * NullWagon (~NullWagon@c-98-228-81-255.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[5:11] * scarolan (~seancarol@cpe-70-112-52-158.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:11] <retrosenator> is that document the complete spec? only 115 pages?
[5:12] <retrosenator> I think the yuv support is mostly for video decoding
[5:12] <clever> it covers everything except the details of the QPU
[5:12] <clever> in theory, i could feed h264 to the omx core, and get yuv420 out
[5:12] <clever> then convert it to raster format, and supply it as a texture
[5:12] <clever> and render an h264 video on a tv in a 3d room
[5:13] <retrosenator> converting to raster format in a shader program?
[5:13] <clever> i would have to do that in arm right now
[5:13] <clever> http://www.khronos.org/registry/omxil/specs/OpenMAX_IL_1_1_2_Specification.pdf
[5:13] <clever> let me double check the omx specs
[5:13] <clever> dang, 404
[5:14] * clever calls upon locate!
[5:14] <clever> 404!
[5:14] <retrosenator> I think the tformat is needed to make use of all the different cores effectively
[5:14] <clever> found it on my kindle
[5:15] * Fishy (~fishy@pool-108-40-3-10.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:15] <clever> retrosenator: thats what i thought too, but it would be more costly to convert yuvplanar -> tformat
[5:16] <clever> thats why i'm double checking the omx specs
[5:16] <clever> OMX_COLOR_Format32bitARGB8888
[5:16] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[5:16] <clever> ok, so omx may be able to output a raster order rgba image
[5:16] <retrosenator> yeah.. no 24 bit formats..
[5:16] <clever> OMX_COLOR_Format24bitBGR888
[5:16] <clever> it has that too
[5:17] <clever> OMX_COLOR_Format8bitRGB332
[5:17] <clever> even this
[5:17] * rdbell (~rdbell@cpe-107-184-102-10.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:17] <retrosenator> but internally it is still 32bits no?
[5:17] <retrosenator> wow.. 8 bit RGB.. fairly useless, normally we drop to palette
[5:17] <clever> i think the resize module in omx will downconvert it automatically
[5:18] <clever> i have made omx work when using OMX_COLOR_FormatYUV420Planar
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[5:18] <retrosenator> did you try omxplayer?
[5:19] <retrosenator> http://omxplayer.sconde.net/
[5:19] <clever> i wanted to make normal mplayer work
[5:19] <clever> ive used omxplayer since day one, but the ui is lacking
[5:19] <clever> and its painfull to watch them reinvent the wheel one option at a time
[5:19] <clever> for example, syncronized playback between multiple machine
[5:19] <retrosenator> oh, it's not based on mplayer?
[5:19] <clever> nope
[5:19] <clever> entirely different
[5:20] <retrosenator> I would think you would just have a special video output driver for mplayer
[5:20] <clever> mplayer has -udp-master to sync playback
[5:20] <clever> a custom vo module wont handle the h264 decode
[5:20] <clever> but you DO need a vo module
[5:20] <clever> mplayer via sdl does software yuv->rgb, horid cpu usage
[5:20] <clever> mplayer via framebuffer, same thing
[5:20] <retrosenator> yeah I imagine so
[5:21] <clever> i wrote a custom vo that uses dispmanx
[5:21] <retrosenator> -vo opengl could in theory work
[5:21] <clever> and just passes the raw yuv420 planes right over
[5:21] <clever> and with what i learned in v3d, i could make that even faster using a kernel driver
[5:22] <clever> i also patched ffmpeg to use omx for the h264 decode
[5:22] <clever> thats where i ran into the main problem
[5:22] <clever> omx has a frame latency in it
[5:22] <clever> you feed it a packet of h264 data, and then ~10 packets later, it returns the first frame
[5:23] <clever> ffmpeg expects the frame NOW
[5:23] <clever> it wont give you the 2nd frame of data until you return the 1st frame
[5:23] <retrosenator> so you have to decode so many frames in advance
[5:24] <clever> and i cant return it frames i dont have yet
[5:24] <clever> ffmpeg wont give me the frames ahead of schedule
[5:24] <retrosenator> "full documentation for the VideoCore IV graphics core, and a complete source release of the graphics stack"
[5:24] <retrosenator> so where is the source code of the graphics stack?
[5:24] <clever> they should have linked it in that post
[5:24] <clever> its the android code for a related chip
[5:24] <retrosenator> and why aren't we just using that (assuming it's a complete opengl implementation)
[5:25] <clever> it wasnt meant to run against the pi blob, thats what the guy who won the prize fixed
[5:25] <clever> basicaly, there are 3 main modules in the pi
[5:25] <clever> the arm cpu
[5:25] * harish (harish@nat/redhat/x-fxyjxbchuswsayje) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:25] <clever> the vpu cores (dual core, different arch, it runs the blob)
[5:25] <clever> and the v3d cores (binner, renderer, 12 qpu's)
[5:25] <clever> the source is for another chip, which lacks the VPU's
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[5:25] <clever> so the arm did everything, and controled the v3d directly
[5:26] <retrosenator> which is slower?
[5:26] <clever> the old pi gl, was purely implemented in the VPU
[5:26] <clever> the arm would pass a message off
[5:26] <clever> and then the VPU would perform the entire gl stack
[5:26] <clever> leaving the ARM idle to do anything it wanted
[5:27] <retrosenator> what about the v3d cores?
[5:27] <clever> in both cases, the gl stack controls the v3d to do the actual rendering
[5:27] <clever> the only difference is where the gl stack lives (ARM or VPU)
[5:27] * zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:27] <clever> the source they opened was for a chip without the VPU, so the entire stack lived in ARM land
[5:28] <retrosenator> but they released specs for for everything?
[5:28] <clever> they only released the specs for the v3d module
[5:28] <clever> the VPU is still a black box (but some have reverse engineered parts of it)
[5:29] <retrosenator> ok I'm beginning to understand
[5:30] <clever> from what ive seen, the VPU is a dual core processor running a real time operating system
[5:30] <clever> the heap in the VPU can be defragmented
[5:30] <retrosenator> well obviously we need specs for the VPU so the stack can live there
[5:30] <clever> so all objects on the heap have a memory handle
[5:30] <retrosenator> and it shares ram?
[5:30] <clever> you must first lock an object to get its physical address (i dont think the VPU has an MMU)
[5:30] <clever> and then unlock it when your done
[5:30] <retrosenator> so should be in kernel space..
[5:30] * woooden (~woooden@c-98-232-209-134.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: woooden)
[5:31] <clever> all 3 modules (arm, vpu, v3d) have unrestricted access to all ram
[5:31] <clever> but linux has been told to stay out of a 128mb chunk, which the VPU is free to do whatever it wants with
[5:31] <clever> you can still open /dev/mem and read anything you want anywhere
[5:31] <clever> the linux kernel acts like that 128mb chunk doesnt exist
[5:32] <retrosenator> can't you configure it to whatever size you want?
[5:32] <clever> yeah
[5:32] <clever> start.elf will tell the kernel what area to avoid at bootup
[5:32] <clever> via the kernel command line
[5:32] <retrosenator> right, I remember that
[5:32] <clever> vc_mem.mem_base=0xec00000 vc_mem.mem_size=0x10000000
[5:33] <clever> i think its those
[5:33] <clever> hmmm, thats not right, vc_mem.mem_size is 256mb
[5:33] <retrosenator> wo what is stopping us from running the released opengl stack on the arm and not using the vpu?
[5:33] <clever> i only have 256mb total
[5:33] <retrosenator> wouldn't this give still decent acceleration and full opengl support right away?
[5:33] <clever> retrosenator: nothing, thats exactly what simon did to win the prize
[5:34] <clever> all he did was port the full thing over to the pi
[5:34] * TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:35] <retrosenator> how does it compare to the closed stack in performance?
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[5:35] <clever> i havent tried it out yet
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[5:36] <clever> retrosenator: the main issue ive noticed in that gl stack, it handles physical memory addresses in userspace
[5:37] <clever> so using the v3d driver, you can basically read/write any location in ram
[5:37] <clever> even if you lack root
[5:37] <retrosenator> you mean as a security issue?
[5:38] <clever> yeah
[5:38] <clever> and stability, one bug in that math and you can write to who knows what
[5:38] * atouk (~kvirc@ool-4575268a.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:38] <clever> you wont just segfault your process, you could panic the entire machine
[5:38] <retrosenator> heh, my intel graphics 965 is buggy like this
[5:39] <clever> i suspect the android framework made that secure
[5:39] * rdbell (~rdbell@cpe-107-184-102-10.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: rdbell)
[5:39] <clever> i think the gl code ran under a secured daemon, so only OEM authorized code could access it
[5:39] <clever> and then a message api was used to control it
[5:39] <clever> so under android, it would have been fne
[5:40] <[Saint]> Android's permission management is pretty bloody incredible, really.
[5:40] <clever> one linux uid for every app
[5:41] <retrosenator> gah, I haven't tried android yet
[5:41] <[Saint]> But, yes. You're right. This could open a waypoint for some very non-nice behavior were you to have less morals than you do.
[5:41] <clever> the v3d2 driver i made uses memory handles
[5:41] <clever> my plan is to insert a handle id into the control lists where needed
[5:41] <clever> and then the kernel performs the final linking phase
[5:41] <clever> replacing handles with physical addresses
[5:41] <retrosenator> [Saint]: or buggy programs
[5:42] <[Saint]> retrosenator: Wow...really?
[5:42] <[Saint]> re: managing to avoid Android
[5:42] <[Saint]> H...how do you like...live, and stuff?
[5:42] <retrosenator> ??
[5:42] <clever> galaxy S III, kindle fire HD, and ive ran android on the pi and a laptop before
[5:42] <retrosenator> honestly I haven't used android or even seen someone else using it, I know.. but I keep reading about it online
[5:43] <clever> and ive written a few apps, though nothing has gone big
[5:43] <[Saint]> Just. Wow.
[5:43] <retrosenator> my only computers are raspberry pi, cubie truck and chromebook
[5:43] <retrosenator> these all run linux, but perhaps could run android
[5:43] <clever> and i use android countless hours a day on the kindle fire
[5:43] <clever> most of my netflix and youtube is gone on android
[5:44] <[Saint]> retrosenator: What do you use for a phone?
[5:44] <clever> along with some email
[5:44] <retrosenator> [Saint]: I don't use cell phones
[5:44] <[Saint]> Burn the witch!
[5:44] <retrosenator> I use irc, and email
[5:44] <clever> same, i dont have a cellphone
[5:44] <[Saint]> Buuuuuuuuuuuuuurn 'em!
[5:44] <[Saint]> Wait, wha?
[5:44] <clever> i just never leave the house, why would i need one?
[5:44] <retrosenator> cell phones are a distraction
[5:44] <[Saint]> says the guy on IRC. ;)
[5:45] <clever> i have a land line, laptops, desktops
[5:45] <clever> why do i need a cell?
[5:45] <retrosenator> I don't have a land line, but I don't live on land...
[5:45] <[Saint]> My phone practically runs my entire life.
[5:46] <[Saint]> Managing appointments, reminders, ...everything.
[5:46] <clever> ive tried running google cal on my kindle
[5:46] <clever> but it forgets who i am every time i close it
[5:46] <retrosenator> you know the phone signals are the same frequency as microwaves
[5:46] <clever> retrosenator: as is wifi
[5:46] * jroysdon (~jroysdon@Ox.roysdon.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:46] <retrosenator> talking on a phone is like slow cooking your brain.. yes same as wifi
[5:46] <blockh34d> cell phones such overpriced waste
[5:46] <blockh34d> i hate mine
[5:47] <[Saint]> That's BS pseudo-science.
[5:47] <clever> i have a kindle on my lap nuking my nuts :P
[5:47] <retrosenator> but I put the adapter on a 5 meter usb extension cable to get better signal anyway
[5:47] <[Saint]> There's absolutely zero risk from WiFi.
[5:47] <retrosenator> [Saint]: you are making me laugh
[5:47] <[Saint]> None. Nada. Nope.
[5:47] <blockh34d> clever please do waht you can to keep it away from you, i find it distracting, intrusive, invasive, and possibly spying on you
[5:47] <[Saint]> retrosenator: please do point me to your peer reviewed research that states otherwise.
[5:48] <[Saint]> I'll wait.
[5:48] <retrosenator> yes.. also phones are closed-source, and could well have gps antennas tracking your position all the time
[5:48] <clever> blockh34d: thats why i dont do anything borderline illegal on the kindle :P
[5:48] <clever> retrosenator: android is open source, and if you root the phone, you can replace the entire OS most of the time
[5:48] <[Saint]> What an outrageous claim.
[5:48] <retrosenator> [Saint]: cell phone signals make it difficult for bees to navigate, cause rats to have low sperm count etc..
[5:48] <[Saint]> re "phones are closed source".
[5:49] <[Saint]> retrosenator: are you a bee or a rat?
[5:49] <blockh34d> if the bees go we're all doomed
[5:49] <retrosenator> [Saint]: I don't know the exact effects on humans but we share a lot of dna with everything else
[5:49] <blockh34d> better keep them bees around
[5:50] <retrosenator> clever: what about the chip that communicates with the tower?
[5:50] <[Saint]> All this wifi is bad for you hype is ridiculous.
[5:50] <[Saint]> Absolutely ridiculous.
[5:50] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p2127-ipbf2705souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:50] <clever> retrosenator: the radio firmware is pretty much always closed source, nothing you can do about that
[5:50] <retrosenator> [Saint]: maybe you are right
[5:50] <retrosenator> clever: therefore it can do anything, like transmit your gps position
[5:51] <retrosenator> clever: even without gps they can triangulate and track where you are all the time
[5:51] <clever> retrosenator: ive heard that the radio chip is capable of violating regulations with the airwaves, and the firmware has to be authorized as playing by the rules
[5:51] <[Saint]> ^ this
[5:51] <clever> that radio firmware then talks to the arm/android over something like a serial port
[5:51] <blockh34d> retrosenator: they can have your phone log everything you do and when you did it and periodically send that log off to 'the mothership' anytime data access is available
[5:51] <blockh34d> i don't even think thats optional any more
[5:51] <clever> in my old treo 650, i was able to actualy unplug the entire cellular module
[5:52] <clever> and the thing still worked
[5:52] <blockh34d> when, where, what you did, right off to the CIA
[5:52] <blockh34d> for them to blackmail you with at their leisure
[5:52] <clever> it would barf out errors if i ran the phone app, but it otherwise worked fine
[5:52] <[Saint]> This is all terribly tinfoil hat-ish.
[5:52] <[Saint]> Very much so.
[5:52] <retrosenator> blockh34d: and obama said that it's ok to have computers monitor all conversations... they use speech to text to scan every word you speak
[5:52] * atouk (~kvirc@ool-4575268a.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[5:52] <clever> [Saint]: ive written and android app to do exactly what they are saying...
[5:52] <blockh34d> retrosenator: lol all obamas fault eh
[5:52] * pzp (uid11754@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btrtregmaevctyhd) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[5:52] <clever> [Saint]: it tracks where my dad is at every minute, and uploads it to my website
[5:53] <blockh34d> lets not go there it makes me feel like i'm heading down to stupid town
[5:53] <retrosenator> blockh34d: no, but it's just well known that they do this
[5:53] <clever> where i can then pull it up on a map
[5:53] * atouk (~kvirc@ool-4575268a.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:53] <[Saint]> recent versions of Android have that functionality bakes in.
[5:53] <[Saint]> *baked
[5:53] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-98-210-111-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: 😴)
[5:53] <clever> atleast with the apple version of it, it sends an email to the owner when its used
[5:53] <clever> which doesnt make it very stealthy :P
[5:53] <retrosenator> then they use all the tracking data from people to figure out where to put billboards and what to put on them for example
[5:53] <retrosenator> but there are many uses
[5:54] <blockh34d> no they're figuring out who the political dissenters are
[5:54] <blockh34d> so when they kick in hyper inflation (happening right now), they can know who to round up
[5:54] <blockh34d> thats what facebook is for
[5:54] <retrosenator> gah, I don't use facebook
[5:54] <blockh34d> good, i wouldnt either
[5:54] <retrosenator> it requires a cell phone to register
[5:54] <blockh34d> and for what
[5:55] <blockh34d> always a CIA held puppet company
[5:55] <retrosenator> to verify you I guess.. otherwise people open about 50 accounts for 1 person?
[5:55] <blockh34d> designed to manipulate market against myspace
[5:55] <clever> retrosenator: spam mostly
[5:55] <blockh34d> bought by fox and slated to die, so facebook could take over
[5:55] <retrosenator> the whole site is basically spam from what I have seen other people using it
[5:55] <blockh34d> worse than spam
[5:56] <blockh34d> spying spam
[5:56] <clever> ive heard it mentioned that facebook doesnt consider its users as customers
[5:56] <blockh34d> that then hunts down your family
[5:56] <clever> it thinks of the users as a product
[5:56] <blockh34d> or victims maybe
[5:56] <clever> and the customer is the advertising companies
[5:56] * woooden (~woooden@c-98-232-209-134.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:56] <blockh34d> its so redundant too
[5:56] <retrosenator> it's really big here in the philippines
[5:56] <blockh34d> what is it inventing... internets? email? messages? lol
[5:57] <retrosenator> actually everywhere I"ve been except the remote islands, people all talk abou ti
[5:57] <clever> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVfHeWTKjag
[5:57] <clever> go watch this video, it explains some major problems with facebook
[5:57] <[Saint]> "won't use <insert_service_here>, 'cos, big brother>; uses Internet"
[5:57] <[Saint]> Mildly amusing.
[5:57] <clever> [Saint]: yep
[5:57] <clever> [Saint]: watch the above video!
[5:58] <retrosenator> [Saint]: ok.. the real reason I have no cell phone.. no one I would call
[5:58] <clever> retrosenator: same
[5:58] <blockh34d> [Saint]: i don't mind oversight, especially gov oversight, as long as its on the books, by the books, and all above board
[5:58] * D30 (~deo@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:59] <blockh34d> facebook and cia spying is all 'top secret' and even if you somehow catch them doing it they might slap a gag order on you or some other thing to prevent you from disclosing it
[5:59] <blockh34d> all horribly shady
[5:59] <[Saint]> I use a cellphone primarily because it enables me to carry around what is essentially a desktop computer in my pocket.
[5:59] <blockh34d> they brought back nazi tech after ww2
[5:59] <retrosenator> I got banned from ebay for having a "hacker name"
[5:59] <[Saint]> Telephony is a tiny drop in the bucket.
[5:59] <clever> [Saint]: thats what i use my kindle for
[5:59] <blockh34d> i suspect they brought back nazis with them and now that has spread into a disease
[5:59] <[Saint]> I run a full debian install on mine.
[6:00] <retrosenator> [Saint]: why not a raspberry pi? no screen?
[6:00] <[Saint]> <insert shameless plug for Lil' Debbie here>
[6:00] <[Saint]> retrosenator: ever tried carrying one around in your pocket?
[6:00] <retrosenator> never needed to I guess
[6:00] <clever> screen, battery, wifi, size
[6:00] <blockh34d> does rpi have something like a low power mode suspend function?
[6:01] <clever> blockh34d: not that ive seen yet
[6:01] <blockh34d> like mostly shuts down the chip or something
[6:01] <clever> not as low power as android does
[6:01] <[Saint]> To add the same functionality it would be well over 3 times the size of my mobile.
[6:01] <blockh34d> that'd be nice if it did, oh well
[6:01] <[Saint]> Possibly more
[6:01] <clever> android will totally halt the cpu when you turn the screen off
[6:01] <retrosenator> [Saint]: yes, not packaged as nicely
[6:01] <[Saint]> blockh34d: How much lower than 4W do you really need?
[6:01] <clever> and only certain events can unhalt it (physical buttons, network activity, and some timers)
[6:01] <[Saint]> Like...really?
[6:01] <retrosenator> [Saint]: do you also have a pico projector on your phone?
[6:01] * Viper7 (~viper7@ppp121-44-132-211.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:02] <blockh34d> [Saint]: well i want to wear 2 pi's + the power supply on my head so... as low as possible
[6:02] <clever> [Saint]: ive stopped my kindle from halting its cpu before, the battery life just went down the toilet
[6:02] <[Saint]> No need. Chromecast.
[6:02] <retrosenator> [Saint]: 4W is a lot
[6:02] <blockh34d> lower draw means lighter batteries and longer life so very high priorities
[6:02] <[Saint]> retrosenator: not really, no.
[6:02] <[Saint]> Its beans to run per year.
[6:02] <retrosenator> it's a relative term
[6:02] <clever> blockh34d: ive been wondering about http://www.raspberryhy.com/
[6:03] <retrosenator> [Saint]: I am 100% pv solar power
[6:03] <clever> how much hydrogen gives you how many hours of runtime?
[6:03] <clever> why is the pressure given as '100 barg'?
[6:03] <retrosenator> and sure I can run a dozen pi's on my main ship easily, but if I travel on my sailing kayak for a few days, I may only have a 10 watt solar panel which works only a few hours a day
[6:03] <blockh34d> very neat clever thanks
[6:04] <blockh34d> retrosenator: hey thanks for the info i'm very interested in solar pi's as well
[6:04] * D30 (~deo@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:04] <clever> as am i, sailing boat based stuff
[6:04] <retrosenator> blockh34d: I ran the beagleboard on a 3 ounce solar panel...
[6:04] <blockh34d> what about a small display?
[6:04] <clever> the only power is either solar or gas engine
[6:04] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:04] <retrosenator> clever: I don't use hydrogen..
[6:05] <blockh34d> i feel like running this 2.5" lcd off the power headers on the pi is pushing it as close as it can to max draw (900 ma?)
[6:05] <blockh34d> so i'm not sure what kind of solar cell that would require
[6:05] <retrosenator> I have no engine, but other possible sources are wind generator and hydro generator
[6:05] <clever> blockh34d: 900mA would be too much
[6:05] <[Saint]> The main reasons I enjoy a modern smartphone are the things it can offer to streamline my life.
[6:06] <clever> blockh34d: your better off feeding power INTO the gpio header (on the 5v pin), and running the lcd off the same 5v rail
[6:06] <[Saint]> "Ok, Google - remind me to pick up Ms. [Saint] 3 hours from now".
[6:06] <[Saint]> Boom. Done. Just works.
[6:06] <blockh34d> 900 total like usb+cpu+everything
[6:06] <retrosenator> blockh34d: typically the flexible folding or rolling lightweight panels are also less efficient (must be larger in size)
[6:06] <blockh34d> ah yah and some seem more vulnerable to shadow regions
[6:06] <blockh34d> like a little shadow = lot of dropped juuice
[6:06] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:06] <[Saint]> "Ok, Google, when is the next bus scheduled from this location?"
[6:06] <retrosenator> if you use bypass diodes per cell...
[6:07] <blockh34d> [Saint]: its almost like you don't need to know anything at all eh
[6:07] <retrosenator> blockh34d: because all cells are in series.. yes
[6:07] <blockh34d> like you could just let that little device run your whole life
[6:07] <blockh34d> some people will let it and it will make them weak... i'd watch out for that
[6:07] <blockh34d> it'd be easy to let happen
[6:07] <[Saint]> blockh34d: being able to ask my phone naturally worded questions and get meaningful data in response is highly useful, yes.
[6:08] <blockh34d> sure, mine does it too
[6:08] <clever> ive tried, but the google apps dont play well on an amazon device
[6:08] <blockh34d> but its also good to know how to read
[6:08] * metaf5 (~metafmast@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:08] <blockh34d> comes in handy
[6:08] <blockh34d> similarly, research and analytic thought
[6:08] <retrosenator> also hand crank power is potentially viable for these
[6:08] <blockh34d> google helps so much, i thinkits sometimes maybe too much
[6:08] <blockh34d> yes i agree retrosenator
[6:08] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:09] <blockh34d> i also think maybe stirling engine
[6:09] <retrosenator> with a sturdy crank and good quality gears you can easily make 20-30 watts
[6:09] <blockh34d> powered off heat from candles or maybe solar heat
[6:09] <retrosenator> pedal power 100-200 watts
[6:09] <[Saint]> clever: there's a reason for that.
[6:09] <blockh34d> i lived outside for 2 years retrosenator
[6:09] <[Saint]> Its not "blessed'.
[6:09] <retrosenator> blockh34d: solar or wood heat not candles
[6:09] <blockh34d> i think its a bit like what you're describing
[6:09] <clever> [Saint]: i rooted it and manualy jammed the google libs in
[6:09] <clever> [Saint]: play store works fine
[6:10] <[Saint]> If only that were enough.
[6:10] <blockh34d> but i had gas gneerator and nearby gas station with cheap gas so... pretty easy
[6:10] <clever> along with authed youtube
[6:10] <clever> but the google cal is having problems
[6:10] <retrosenator> so if you pedal for say 1 minute, you could run the pi.. what only half an hour?
[6:10] <[Saint]> Pretty much everything is offloaded to Google Play Services these days.
[6:10] <retrosenator> that's why 4 watts is a lot
[6:10] <clever> [Saint]: yep, and ive installed the services as root
[6:10] <blockh34d> retrosenator: not to mention the display device
[6:10] <clever> but every time i open the cal, it asks me to add a google account, which ive already done
[6:10] <[Saint]> clever: for a while now Play Services has been device-specific.
[6:10] <blockh34d> what about naturally backlit lcds?
[6:11] <clever> once i back out and enter the app again, it lets me enable my calendars
[6:11] <retrosenator> blockh34d: I lived in a tent for a long time, and without gas, a 10 mile bicycle ride to town on dirt roads in the mountains
[6:11] * logical2 (~admin@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:11] <blockh34d> something that uses other light sources to generate the backlit effect
[6:11] <clever> [Saint]: going by how ugly the screen is, i think i have an android 2.3 google services
[6:11] <blockh34d> retrosenator: yes i lived kind of like that for a while it's very challenging
[6:11] <retrosenator> blockh34d: you mean like the ones that use the sun itself?
[6:11] <blockh34d> yah maybe, i dont really know of anyhthing like this
[6:11] <retrosenator> transmissive vs transreflective
[6:12] <blockh34d> but i think maybe a lot of the lcd power draw is the back light
[6:12] <retrosenator> makes it daylight visible
[6:12] <[Saint]> clever: normally it would freak out and download an appropriate version, but that's not an option for this device as no such thing exists.
[6:12] * snuffeluffegus (~John@cpe-071-077-227-151.ec.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:12] <blockh34d> oh ok i shoul dlook into that more
[6:12] <blockh34d> thanks
[6:12] <[Saint]> Play Services used to be device agnostic, but it turned into a MASSIVE binary
[6:12] <clever> [Saint]: i should play arround with the other glibs, hmm
[6:12] <[Saint]> So they made device specific versions.
[6:12] <[Saint]> Enabling it to be a lot smaller.
[6:12] <blockh34d> yah thats maybe my biggest beef with android, seems to suffer serious bloat issues, and it feels too opaque to me
[6:13] <retrosenator> blockh34d: basically it uses ambient light to light the screen, plus a backlight to boost it and make it work at night too
[6:13] <blockh34d> i'd like a basic console prompt and ability to add/remove stuff at a low level
[6:13] <[Saint]> blockh34d: you're almost certainly not talking about AOSP or GPE there.
[6:13] <blockh34d> AOSP?
[6:13] <[Saint]> Android Open Source Project.
[6:13] <[Saint]> "pure" Android.
[6:13] <blockh34d> and GPE?
[6:13] <[Saint]> Google Play Edition
[6:13] <blockh34d> oh i see
[6:14] <[Saint]> (kinda like a Nexus, but....not)
[6:14] <blockh34d> i'm kinda pushed away from it all
[6:14] * k03ll (~galactica@ Quit (Quit: So say we all!)
[6:14] <clever> [Saint]: ive also found that amazon has broken several parts of AOSP in their port
[6:14] <blockh34d> feels like big business = gov stooge
[6:14] <clever> [Saint]: for one, the gmail notifications make use of a <DateTime> ui element
[6:14] <clever> [Saint]: android modified that
[6:14] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p2127-ipbf2705souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:14] <blockh34d> no getting away from it for me, google doesnt seem any more immune to the gov intrussion than anyone else
[6:14] <clever> so, the ENTIRE ui will crash every time a gmail notification is made
[6:14] <[Saint]> Hahahaha. :)
[6:14] <blockh34d> so i'm trying to take everything i use to the lowest level i can and use open source everything
[6:14] <clever> [Saint]: its flagged as private in the specs, so you cant use it from normal apps
[6:15] <clever> gmail broke that rule, and suffers for it :P
[6:15] <[Saint]> blockh34d: but, yeah, the "bloat" you speak of isn;t an Android problem at all.
[6:15] <[Saint]> Its a vendor problem.
[6:15] <clever> every time it tries to make a notification, the status bar with the notificatons crashes
[6:15] <clever> and it takes the softkeys with it
[6:15] <[Saint]> Android itself is very minimal.
[6:15] <clever> so i cant hit home or back either
[6:15] <blockh34d> no its still an android problem
[6:15] <blockh34d> for not controlling the vendors
[6:15] <clever> and when it restarts, it re-crashes
[6:15] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@ Quit ()
[6:15] <clever> until i disable gmail notifications
[6:15] <blockh34d> should have put them in a choke hold
[6:15] <blockh34d> wahtever it takes
[6:16] <[Saint]> That's exactly what Android *didn't* want to do.
[6:16] <[Saint]> Its not iOS.
[6:16] <[Saint]> If you want your walled garden, go see Steve.
[6:16] <blockh34d> doesnt have to be
[6:16] <blockh34d> just needs to have some sort of oversight and authority
[6:16] <blockh34d> it is their baby after all
[6:16] <[Saint]> Implying it doesn't?
[6:16] <[Saint]> As it very much does.
[6:16] <blockh34d> it feels rather anarchistic sometimes
[6:17] <blockh34d> like the vendors pay lip service to google specs and install spy/scum ware anyways
[6:17] <blockh34d> who knows maybe i'm just too jaded, too paranoid, from years of hating the gov
[6:17] <blockh34d> i absolutely hate the gov.
[6:18] <[Saint]> It seems that has distanced you from reality.
[6:18] <blockh34d> i'd fire every single politician immediately if i could and replace them all with Pure Democracy
[6:18] <blockh34d> no the reality is i have to assume the worst
[6:18] * logical2 (~admin@ Quit ()
[6:18] <blockh34d> maybe you suggest i don't need to but that doesnt sound like a good idea to me
[6:18] <clever> [Saint]: ok, thats weird, i landed in fastboot again
[6:19] <[Saint]> Heh. What'd 'ya do? :)
[6:19] <clever> i ran 'adb reboot'
[6:19] * michael_lee (~michael_l@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:19] <blockh34d> whats fastboot?
[6:19] <blockh34d> would love to find a way to get rpi to boot up faster
[6:20] <clever> blockh34d: android bootloader
[6:20] <blockh34d> k thanks i'll check that out
[6:20] <clever> it doesnt make the os boot faster
[6:20] <blockh34d> so its android bootloader but still runs debian?
[6:20] <[Saint]> No.
[6:20] * jrshaul (4cfa228c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[6:20] <[Saint]> Nothing to do with the pi at all.
[6:21] <jrshaul> Is there documentation on the best way to use the RPi to stream video?
[6:21] <blockh34d> waht kind of video? stream from what to what?
[6:21] <jrshaul> From the Rpi to another device over wi-fi or ethernet.
[6:22] <jrshaul> Derp. From the Rpi-camera.
[6:22] <blockh34d> i've used netcat and mplayer fairly easily for that
[6:22] <blockh34d> you netcat the raspicam output to a remote netcat listening for a mplayer
[6:22] <blockh34d> or i guess vlc could work too? i dunno i used mplayer
[6:22] * ChipButty (~CB@c-50-139-91-252.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:23] <clever> [Saint]: ok, i upgraded gsf with one i have tagged as 4.0.4
[6:23] <jrshaul> The question is - how far can one reduce latency?
[6:23] <jrshaul> Below <100ms, it starts becoming a credible option for telepresence.
[6:23] <blockh34d> for me it started substantial, maybe 2 seconds, but after a while it gets to almost lagless, instant
[6:24] <blockh34d> yes thats the plan
[6:24] <blockh34d> i'm making AR helmet
[6:24] <blockh34d> its very similar application
[6:24] <clever> [Saint]: gmail still works
[6:24] <clever> calendar hasnt asked me to add an acct this time
[6:25] <clever> i think that fixed it
[6:25] <blockh34d> (Picam to pi) * 2 -> odroid u2 -> science (math nom nom) -> back to rpi's for display
[6:25] <[Saint]> Huzzah.
[6:25] <[Saint]> Something else almost certainly broke.
[6:25] <[Saint]> Here's hoping its something you don't use.
[6:25] <clever> let me turn gmail notifications back on
[6:25] <clever> fb messager has been broken for weeks
[6:25] <blockh34d> needs to hold 20+fps, so thats maybe 50ms or less round trip for whole thing
[6:25] <jrshaul> blockh34d: Making?
[6:26] <blockh34d> yes its sitting in front of me in partially functional form
[6:26] <blockh34d> i have most of the parts, 2 displays, 2 pis, 4 picams, the optic lenses needed, thats most of it
[6:26] <[Saint]> clever: I imagine this was non-obvious without the knowledge that Play Services changed to being device specific instead of a "one size fits all" approach.
[6:26] <[Saint]> Well done.
[6:26] <blockh34d> still playing with power sources and final housings... getting a 3d printer later this week
[6:26] <clever> and boom, i lost the status bar
[6:26] <[Saint]> I'm pleased for you.
[6:26] <[Saint]> Awwwww.
[6:27] <clever> so i cant use gmail notifications
[6:27] <[Saint]> Spoke too soon I guess.
[6:27] <clever> the same bug it had on day 1
[6:27] <clever> its a missing feature, not the gsf
[6:27] <clever> E/AndroidRuntime( 3830): java.lang.NullPointerException
[6:27] <clever> E/AndroidRuntime( 3830): at android.text.style.TextAppearanceSpan.updateDrawState(TextAppearanceSpan.java:221)
[6:27] <clever> E/AndroidRuntime( 3830): at android.text.TextLine.handleRun(TextLine.java:1006)
[6:27] <[Saint]> This is caused by Amazon choosing to avoid the Googlesphere to keep costs down, sadly.
[6:28] <[Saint]> Totally unavoidable.
[6:28] <clever> [Saint]: that part was actualy in AOSP
[6:28] * pwnz0r (~pwnz0r@c-107-3-169-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:28] <clever> originaly, notifications in android would say things like '10mins ago'
[6:28] <clever> and the <DateTime> element would change the formating based on distance
[6:28] <clever> amazon rewrote that ui element, it now just says 1:23 am
[6:29] <clever> and the changes they made arent compatible with how gmail does its notifications
[6:29] <clever> ive debuged it heavily, because the text wasnt right for some of my own apps
[6:29] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[6:29] * Datalink_ is now known as Datalink
[6:29] <[Saint]> Right. Because they didn;t need to worry about that as it was never eever intended to run any of the Googlesphere applications.
[6:30] <[Saint]> They never had any intention of passing the required testing.
[6:30] <blockh34d> clever do you know if the rHY fuel cells are publicly available?
[6:30] <clever> [Saint]: they also just made that ui element worse overall
[6:30] <clever> it doesnt provide as nice of a reply
[6:30] <clever> blockh34d: no clue
[6:31] <[Saint]> Yeah, I don't mind not being shown exact times for some things.
[6:31] <[Saint]> Location is a good example. "last seen about 2 hours ago".
[6:31] <[Saint]> Good enough for me.
[6:32] <clever> the problem is that the amazon changes just show time
[6:32] <clever> and your left to do the math yourself
[6:33] * pwnz0r (~pwnz0r@c-107-3-169-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[6:34] * ChipButty (~CB@c-50-139-91-252.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has left #raspberrypi
[6:34] <[Saint]> In recent Android times lose accuracy on a nice-ish plot. 1 minute ago, 2 minutes ago, 10 minutes ago, 1 hour ago, 6 hours ago, yesterday, etc.
[6:34] <[Saint]> I like it.
[6:36] <chipotle> ok, i installed openelec diskimage to my sdhc card, and put it in my raspberry pi, what is the ip address i connect to via ssh now to access it?
[6:36] <clever> found it, https://github.com/android/platform_frameworks_base/blob/master/core/java/android/widget/DateTimeView.java
[6:36] <clever> [Saint]: android will inflate a REMOTE view containing <DateTimeView> for all notifications
[6:36] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@c-76-115-7-194.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:36] <clever> that java code runs under the context of the status bar tray
[6:36] <[Saint]> The few niggles I have left remaining with Android primarily revolve around differing implementations of the same thing.
[6:36] <clever> it handles the job of providing those strings you just mentioned
[6:37] <[Saint]> A consistent time picker would be nice.
[6:37] <[Saint]> And, stopping apps from just making up how the back button should behave.
[6:37] * jrshaul (4cfa228c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[6:37] <[Saint]> Also, UI/UX within Google apps.
[6:37] <clever> [Saint]: thats needed for fragments to work right
[6:37] <clever> fragements are implemented fully within the app, not within the os
[6:37] <[Saint]> Its seriously like none of the teams ever look at each other's work.
[6:38] <clever> so it needs a back hook to implement the fragment back stack
[6:38] <clever> my issue, is with apps that dont even do that
[6:38] <clever> they add their own IOS style back button
[6:38] <clever> the android back just quits, instantly
[6:39] <[Saint]> There's an exposed module that gets some consistent back behaviour.
[6:39] <retrosenator> I guess that is going back...
[6:39] <[Saint]> *semi-consistent
[6:39] <[Saint]> I particularly despise how the back button works in Chrome/
[6:39] <[Saint]> That is just...yuck.
[6:39] * dastaan (~dastaan@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:39] <clever> which part?
[6:40] <clever> if i click a link in another app and it opens chrome, then i hit back, the tab closes and it returns to that app
[6:40] <clever> if i was a few links deep, it acts like browser back until i run out of history
[6:40] <[Saint]> that part.
[6:40] <clever> silk is different, and gives better ui hints
[6:40] <[Saint]> the latter.
[6:40] <[Saint]> its awful.
[6:41] <clever> silk will entirely REPLACE back with its own forward/back buttons (different icons)
[6:41] <clever> which lets you go forward!!!
[6:41] <clever> and when you run out of history, it replaces the browser back with an android back
[6:41] <[Saint]> It should just exit, not try to behave like a back button is a browser.
[6:41] <clever> giving you a clear hint about what it will do
[6:41] <clever> you can exit out by using home
[6:42] <clever> but the recent task list in the kindle is broken
[6:42] <clever> so you have to manualy re-open what you had last (which restores its state)
[6:42] <[Saint]> I just "fixed" it by having each link open in a new tab.
[6:42] <[Saint]> Instead of replacing the current
[6:42] <clever> if i add a 'recent apps' shortcut to my desktop and hit that
[6:42] <clever> the status bar crashes
[6:43] <retrosenator> do you guys have gcc-4.8 on raspberry pi?
[6:43] <[Saint]> No multitasking for you!
[6:43] <[Saint]> ;)
[6:43] <clever> [Saint]: i can still multitask just fine
[6:43] <clever> i just have to run the previous app via the normal methods
[6:43] <clever> it still maintains the normal activity stack stuff
[6:45] * Guegs (~Guegs___@207-47-246-154.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[6:46] <clever> [Saint]: i also suspect amazon broke usb otg
[6:46] <clever> some xml files in the os claim it has otg support
[6:46] <clever> but nothing at all happens if i try to use otg
[6:46] <clever> and usb accessory protocol crashes the os
[6:46] <[Saint]> I don't think its actually physically wired for supplying anything other than VBUS power.
[6:47] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:47] <clever> then why does the xml file in /system claim it has support?
[6:47] <[Saint]> Maybe at some stage a prior model did.
[6:48] <[Saint]> They tried really hard to get these out the door cheap.
[6:48] <clever> thats another thing
[6:48] <[Saint]> If you didn't need it, you didn't get it.
[6:48] <clever> initialy, they refused to sell to canada
[6:48] <clever> i had to ship mine to florida, then have it shipped up
[6:48] <clever> and once it arrived, i couldnt 'buy' a single amazon app, even the free ones
[6:48] <clever> it demands a valid billing address, even for free apps
[6:49] <clever> i was forced to root it and install play store just to get any use out of it
[6:49] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:49] <clever> they have since opened the canadian market, but
[6:49] <[Saint]> Makes me wonder why you purchased it.
[6:49] <clever> large features, like 'kindle free time' (multi user support) are disabled in canada
[6:49] <[Saint]> I suspect you were unaware of the terrible holes.
[6:49] <clever> it was on sale :P
[6:49] <clever> and that
[6:49] <[Saint]> Ah. ;)
[6:50] * hephaestus_rg (~hephaestu@75-165-127-238.tukw.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: hephaestus_rg)
[6:50] <clever> you must change your entire amazon account over to american mode before you can use the multi-user stuff
[6:50] <[Saint]> Don't let this terrible thing bias your opinion in "real" Android, though.
[6:50] <clever> yeah
[6:50] <[Saint]> The two are quite far removed from each other.
[6:50] <clever> its obvious that amazon messed it up
[6:50] <clever> i have considered running cyanogemmod on the kindle
[6:50] <clever> but then i would loose some of the seamless stuff amazon added like books and their drm
[6:50] <[Saint]> CyanogenMOd support is a requirement for my device purchases.
[6:51] <clever> it was also my first android device
[6:51] <[Saint]> Yeah, I figured. Shame.
[6:51] <[Saint]> Must've left a bitter taste.
[6:51] <clever> only on amazon products :P
[6:51] <clever> i'm thinking of a nexus next time
[6:52] * [Saint] nods
[6:52] <[Saint]> At the least, GPE.
[6:52] <clever> GPE?
[6:52] <[Saint]> Google Play Edition
[6:52] <clever> ah
[6:52] <[Saint]> Kinda like a Nexus, ish. Guaranteed support for a specified period.
[6:53] <[Saint]> They won;t just dump it and run and never update the OS.
[6:53] <[Saint]> ...like so many other devices.
[6:53] <[Saint]> They are supposedly replacing Nexus and GPE devices with "Android Silver".
[6:53] <clever> yeah, like the chinese knock-off tablets
[6:54] <[Saint]> Which is rather like a premium version of Android, no OS changes, all support based.
[6:54] <clever> if i did switch to cyanogemmod, what would happen with things like netflix?
[6:55] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p2127-ipbf2705souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:55] <[Saint]> There's a test kernel floating around that can enable HW accell.
[6:56] <clever> ive also been wondering about rpi netflix
[6:56] <[Saint]> http://liliputing.com/2012/04/kindle-fire-gets-unofficial-android-4-0-hardware-acceleration-with-test-kernel.html
[6:56] <clever> if android was ported to the pi, what parts would be required to enable it
[6:56] <[Saint]> first link I found
[6:56] <[Saint]> clever: if?
[6:56] <clever> when
[6:56] <[Saint]> Its past tense.
[6:56] <[Saint]> Its been done. Broadcom are just being dicks about it.
[6:56] <clever> the android ive seen lacks even 2d accel
[6:57] <clever> not even counting that one :P
[6:57] <[Saint]> Broadcom demoed HW accellerated ICS about 2 years ago.
[6:57] <[Saint]> And then did NOTHING about it, and disappeared.
[6:57] <clever> yeah
[6:57] <retrosenator> clever: is your driver intended only for one application?
[6:57] <[Saint]> Pisses me off so bad.
[6:57] <clever> retrosenator: how do you mean?
[6:57] <retrosenator> we really need a mesa/gallium driver
[6:58] <[Saint]> You;d think they would've released it after they dropped the sources for the GPU.
[6:58] <[Saint]> But, nope.
[6:58] <[Saint]> Meaning there must be something in there they're not entirely ready to expose to the community.
[6:58] <[Saint]> Maintaining a foothold. Ensuring relevance.
[6:58] <[Saint]> (not like Broadcom really has to worry there)
[6:59] * janeUbuntu (~jane@2001:3c8:c103:a001:301a:d01d:f3f4:2d47) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:59] <clever> in theory, you could offload the display lists for hw accel to the VPU
[6:59] <clever> so the arm is free to do things while the VPU does the rendering
[6:59] <clever> or even v3d
[6:59] <clever> but the VPU is closed, and they only recently opened V3D
[7:00] <clever> retrosenator: right now, my driver only allows one app to use it at any time
[7:00] <clever> retrosenator: but with support added, it could handle different apps
[7:01] <[Saint]> It really makes me want to just do a kickstarter fund to get someone approved as a Broadcom developer and get the SDK and datasheet and then just immediately violate the NDA and publish it. Become a FOSS martyr.
[7:01] <clever> lol
[7:01] <[Saint]> Actually...
[7:01] <clever> and then they would never let another person in :P
[7:01] <[Saint]> It would be funny as almighty Hell.
[7:02] <retrosenator> any attempts to reverse engineer?
[7:02] <clever> retrosenator: some
[7:02] <[Saint]> The great things we could do with a full datasheet man...gah.
[7:02] * [Saint] grumbles
[7:02] <clever> retrosenator: https://github.com/hermanhermitage?tab=repositories
[7:02] * bigx (~bigx@cam44-2-82-235-243-114.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:02] <retrosenator> clever: can't you watch the transfer bytes the binary blob uses with various commands?
[7:03] <clever> retrosenator: thats one of the first major kernel hacking things i did
[7:03] <clever> back when the omx userspace lib was closed
[7:03] <[Saint]> Not that I disapprove of Broadcom's efforts to assist the comminity, but ever since that hilariously badly handled "Android is coming!" fiasco, it has felt like too little too late.
[7:03] * janeUbuntu (~jane@2001:3c8:c103:a001:301a:d01d:f3f4:2d47) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:03] <retrosenator> but yeah.. it's kind of a waste of time
[7:03] <clever> closed source userspace lib, open space kernel shim, closed blob
[7:03] <clever> i hacked the kernel shim to dump everything that went thru it
[7:03] <clever> but the userspace lib is now open, so thats of no real use
[7:04] <retrosenator> that is such bs... According the fsf.. gpl applies even to dynamic libraries..
[7:04] <clever> and the blob is still entirely locked up in its own core
[7:04] <clever> those libs are now open
[7:04] <retrosenator> they make an open source shim to claim that it's ok
[7:04] <clever> https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland
[7:04] <clever> however, those libs have always been a shim as well
[7:04] <[Saint]> I am also biased by my numerous failed attempts to get them to supply me with appropriate binary blobs so I could migrate a few legacy devices to ICS without ugly hackery.
[7:04] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:04] <clever> from what i can see, the blob on the VPU core implements the entire gl stack
[7:04] <clever> and the shims just pass data over
[7:04] <[Saint]> At times, I even worked along side a few different Broadcom developers that were assigned to our case.
[7:05] <clever> which can give better performance
[7:05] <clever> the arm is idle while the gl stack churns a dual core vpu
[7:05] <retrosenator> clever: gl what? 3.0?
[7:05] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:05] <[Saint]> Over the period of 18 months, however, we got a single blob that was accidentaLLY COMPILED FOR ARMV7.
[7:05] <clever> retrosenator: not sure, whatever is in the blob
[7:05] <[Saint]> sO, IT WAS USELESS TO US.
[7:05] <[Saint]> And vanished.
[7:05] <[Saint]> Whoops, caps. Sorry.
[7:06] <clever> originaly, the pi had a GL shim on arm, the full gl stack on the VPU
[7:07] <clever> and the VPU controlled the V3D to do the rendering
[7:07] <clever> the source they opened last is for a VPU free variant of the chip, so the gl stack was purely on arm
[7:07] <clever> shim free
[7:08] <retrosenator> how powerful is the vpu?
[7:08] <retrosenator> I would really like to compare the performance to with and without the vpu
[7:09] <clever> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=13457
[7:10] <clever> about all i know off hand, its dual core, lacks an MMU, and has full access to all ram and io registers
[7:10] <clever> possible more io registers then the arm, or they just didnt tell us where they are
[7:10] <clever> and its somehow involved in h264 decode/encode, hdmi setup, arm setup, camera control, dsi control
[7:11] <clever> and i think the VPU runs a boot-block in rom at power up
[7:13] <clever> that rom then loads bootcode.bin from the sd card
[7:13] <clever> which loads start.elf
[7:13] <clever> at some point, it enables the arm, loads kernel.img and runs that on the arm
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[7:20] <retrosenator> can you at least shut it off to reduce power?
[7:21] <clever> probly not, and a lot of the current linux depends on it being on
[7:21] <clever> omxplayer and anything with dispmanx needs the vpu to function
[7:21] <clever> and if the vpu is dead, the program hard locks up, you cant even kill -9 it
[7:22] <clever> http://storyhub.actionaid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6188&p=503358
[7:23] <clever> retrosenator: read the post that mentions VPU
[7:24] <clever> i should get to bed now, goodnight
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[7:33] <Decay> I am using Linux Mint 16 KDE, how can I remote desktop my Raspberry on it?
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[10:34] <RaTTuS|BIG> AbbyTheRat - we'll not allow rat hate in this channel
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[12:22] <[Saint]> My cat appears to have forgiven me.
[12:22] <[Saint]> ...exactly on dinner time. Surprise, surprise.
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[12:36] <gordonDrogon> clever, why are you posting links to storyhub.actionaid.org rather than raspberrypi.org?
[12:36] <gordonDrogon> and does anyone know why they mirror raspberypi.org? or who they are?
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[12:36] <gordonDrogon> seems somewaht fishy to me.
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[12:36] <Raynerd> Morning
[12:36] <gordonDrogon> hi.
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[12:37] <shiftplusone> hey
[12:37] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon, odd.... yet all the links on that site are to raspberrypi.org
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[12:38] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon, is that the same site that was sending the forum PM emails before?
[12:38] <gordonDrogon> yes.
[12:38] <shiftplusone> ah, then they're already aware of it
[12:38] <gordonDrogon> yea, I know.
[12:38] <gordonDrogon> still odd though.
[12:39] * woooden (~woooden@c-98-232-209-134.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: woooden)
[12:39] <gordonDrogon> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=72056&p=519803
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[13:17] <thordon> Hi. I'm trying to figure out why my USB HDD has terrible performance when I put it through a USB hub. The hub I got is supposed to have no backfeeding. Does anyone have experience with this?
[13:19] <ShorTie> are you using the network interface while doing this ??
[13:20] <thordon> Yeah, the RJ45, no other USB devices are plugged in. Just HDD <-> USB HUB <-> Pi
[13:20] <nid0> when you specify through a hub, do you mean that your performance is fine if the HDD is plugged straight into the pi?
[13:20] * medoix (~medoix@ Quit (Quit: sleeping)
[13:20] <nid0> also, how terrible is terrible.
[13:20] <thordon> nid0: Yeah, its much better plugged in directly
[13:21] <nid0> guess the hub sucks then, did it cost less than £20?
[13:21] * mrmoney2012 (~mrmoney20@97e7b63d.skybroadband.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:21] <thordon> Plugged directly: Timing cached reads: 116 MB in 2.02 seconds = 57.30 MB/sec
[13:21] <thordon> Timing buffered disk reads: 46 MB in 3.06 seconds = 15.04 MB/sec
[13:21] <thordon> Through hub: Timing cached reads: 2 MB in 30.60 seconds = 66.93 kB/sec
[13:21] <thordon> I didnt wait for the write
[13:22] <thordon> Its this one: http://thepihut.com/products/7-port-usb-hub-for-the-raspberry-pi
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[13:22] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[13:22] <nid0> tried a different port on the hub?
[13:22] <ShorTie> whelp, the usb poirt and the network port both use the same bandwidth
[13:22] <thordon> Not yet, is that likely to help?
[13:23] <nid0> ShorTie: clearly not an issue in this case
[13:23] <ShorTie> that is why the pi doesn't make a good file server
[13:23] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:23] <nid0> thordon: you never know, it might, clearly something odd going on with the hub
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[13:24] <thordon> I'll try changing the configuration a bit and see if it makes any difference
[13:24] <ShorTie> i don't think those cheapy hub are true hubs either, more just a splitter
[13:24] <ShorTie> or atleast the 1 i bought like that was
[13:26] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Client Quit)
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[13:36] <gordonDrogon> maybe it's dropped down to usb1 - 11Mb/sec rathe than usb2?
[13:37] <thordon> Maybe. I dont know much about it. The hub is supposed to support USB 2.0
[13:38] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:39] * MProg (~MProg@unaffiliated/mprog) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:39] <MProg> hi o/
[13:39] * aberlin (~aberlin@37-5-33-63-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:39] <shiftplusone> hi
[13:40] <MProg> hi shiftplusone
[13:40] <MProg> ps : is there a meaning to your nick ?
[13:40] <MProg> like shifting bits
[13:40] <MProg> or
[13:40] <MProg> gears maybe
[13:40] <shiftplusone> '!'
[13:41] <MProg> ah OK ;p
[13:41] <shiftplusone> Just wanted something short >.>
[13:42] <MProg> :p
[13:42] <MProg> (doesn't work on my keyboard though :p)
[13:42] <MProg> shift plus one -> '1'
[13:43] <MProg> (french AZERTY keyboard :p)
[13:43] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[13:43] <shiftplusone> strange
[13:43] <shiftplusone> so the 0-9 keys don't have shift modifiers? O_o
[13:44] * DataLinkDroid (~DataLinkD@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[13:44] <MProg> they do... that's how you get the numbers :p
[13:44] <shiftplusone> oh O_o
[13:44] <MProg> without : &�"'(-�_��
[13:44] <MProg> with : 1234567890
[13:44] <shiftplusone> that's.... actually much better.
[13:45] <shiftplusone> since the keypad makes way more sense for numbers
[13:45] <MProg> maybe... maybe not :p
[13:45] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[13:46] <MProg> (just to complicate things more... most of the number keys have a third symbol)
[13:46] <MProg> (that you get with Alt Gr+number keys)
[13:47] * SKyd3R (~SKyd3R__@edurd1.unican.es) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[13:47] <ShorTie> 'Gr' ??
[13:47] <shiftplusone> that's why you shouldn't put so many letters in your alphabet
[13:48] <MProg> lol
[13:49] <MProg> it's mainly just stupid accents :p
[13:49] <shiftplusone> Though the Ukrainian alphabet has a lot of letters and they all fit sensibly =/
[13:50] <MProg> � � � � � � � � � � � etc
[13:50] <MProg> (might not display well)
[13:50] <ShorTie> i know ctrl+alt+(3 digit #) gives you the asci charactor
[13:51] <MProg> (Windows-1252)
[13:51] <shiftplusone> in Ukrainian we have ї and й, ґ, ь, which are a bit odd, but aside from those there are still more letters than in the English alphabet =/
[13:52] <MProg> euh
[13:52] <MProg> can't see them properly :p
[13:53] <shiftplusone> They're that odd D=
[13:53] <MProg> (I expect you're using UTF-8 and my stupid IRC client doesn't support that :p)
[13:54] <MProg> lol
[13:54] <shiftplusone> yeah
[13:54] <MProg> "<ShorTie> 'Gr' ??" dunno :p it's the alt key on the right :p
[13:55] <shiftplusone> I'd link the wikipedia page, but I don't think the letters in some foreign language are all that interesting >_<
[13:55] <ShorTie> oh, ok
[13:55] <MProg> http://static.commentcamarche.net/en.kioskea.net/faq/images/0-Vuskup12-azerty-s-.png
[13:56] <MProg> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Azerty_fr_laptop.svg
[13:56] <MProg> better
[13:59] <MProg> anyway... AZERTY keyboards are better because...
[14:00] <MProg> euh...........
[14:00] <MProg> ah
[14:00] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:00] <shiftplusone> they are?
[14:00] <MProg> what if you want to talk about microseconds !
[14:00] <MProg> :p
[14:01] <MProg> I can type �s
[14:01] <shiftplusone> most folks just write us
[14:01] <MProg> can't do that with a QWERTY keyboard ! :p
[14:01] <MProg> lol
[14:02] <shiftplusone> and you can still do with with a qwerty keyboard, you just need to do the magic with the unicode thing.
[14:02] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:02] <shiftplusone> alt + code on windows or however you have it set up on linux
[14:02] * cff (~cff@unaffiliated/shiningthrough) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:02] * DataLinkDroid (~DataLinkD@ Quit (Quit: Disconnecting -- bye)
[14:03] <MProg> I know :p
[14:03] <shiftplusone> I would google it, but my network is crippled right now >=/
[14:03] <MProg> but... what if you want to talk about a paragraph !
[14:03] <MProg> a �
[14:03] <MProg> :p
[14:03] <MProg> or or or ...
[14:04] <MProg> use the stupid universal currency symbol �
[14:04] <shiftplusone> well then there's just no reason to live if you have a qwerty keyboard then.
[14:04] * ShorTie snickers
[14:04] <MProg> lol
[14:06] <MProg> I find azerty pretty stupid actually :x
[14:06] <MProg> very few countries use it
[14:07] * Papasean (~papasean@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:07] <gordonDrogon> MProg, sorry? I can't type �S with a qwerty keyboard? Why not?
[14:07] * Engen` is now known as Engen
[14:08] <MProg> not with a single key :p
[14:08] <gordonDrogon> Alt+Gr + m
[14:08] <MProg> and hi
[14:08] <gordonDrogon> �
[14:08] <shiftplusone> Ah, I see how they got around the issue on the Ukrainian keyboard... they cut out a lot of symbols, so programming must be terrible on one of those. ; is shift +4, and there are no curly brackets. =/
[14:08] <gordonDrogon> alt+gr and shift Q gives Ω too.
[14:10] <gordonDrogon> ˙ɹǝpɹɐɥ ʇɐɥʍǝɯos sᴉ ʇxǝʇ uʍop ǝpᴉsdn 'ʎlpǝʇʇᴉɯp∀
[14:10] <shiftplusone> what's alt+gr by default on Debian?
[14:10] <thordon> nid0: I got it working. I tried a few different ports. 2 on the back both give me slow speed, but one of the 5 on the front (I only tried one) works fine. I also tried with 2 external HDs plugged into the back 2 and both were fine. Very weird
[14:10] <gordonDrogon> on my keyboard it's the key to the right of the spacebar marked Alt Gr
[14:10] * Stanto (~Stanto@li285-77.members.linode.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:10] <shiftplusone> that would be right alt, which doesn't work for me.
[14:10] <gordonDrogon> I've not done anything special to make it work - it just does.
[14:11] <Stanto> oh look, there's a new raspberry pi.. http://ow.ly/vvrVN </notspamhonest>
[14:11] * Stanto wonders why he wasn't in this channel already
[14:11] * shiftplusone prepares the banhammer and clicks the link.
[14:12] <nid0> its not a new pi
[14:12] <nid0> but close enough to not be spam.
[14:12] <gordonDrogon> Huh?
[14:12] * shiftplusone puts away the banhammer
[14:12] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[14:12] <Stanto> phew
[14:12] <shiftplusone> must be the news JamesH hinted at earlier.
[14:13] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[14:13] <Stanto> Yeah it's just a new formfactor as it were
[14:13] <gordonDrogon> http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-compute-module-new-product/
[14:13] <MProg> :o
[14:13] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:13] <Stanto> surprised me that they threw it onto a sodimm.
[14:13] <MProg> so...
[14:14] <MProg> it's a pi with on board eMMC and more GPIOs ?
[14:14] <shiftplusone> wonder how this module will do on the market.
[14:14] <MProg> and no ethernet :(
[14:15] <gordonDrogon> just one usb.
[14:15] <gordonDrogon> so for industrial use that's ok.
[14:15] <gordonDrogon> which is what its aimed at.
[14:15] <gordonDrogon> and I guess the 4GB of flash looks like an attached SD card ?
[14:16] <MProg> :o CSI & DSI x2 :)
[14:16] <MProg> that could be useful
[14:16] <gordonDrogon> I was just thinking of 2 cameras on a Pi too.
[14:17] * Pankoi (~Pankoi@host86-172-169-93.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[14:17] <MProg> if the GPU can encode 2 x h264 at once ...
[14:17] <nid0> well all the breakout board is basically just an addon, as their info says its really just a reference devkit with the expectation that people will design their own pcb's to connect the compute module
[14:17] <shiftplusone> Seems like a smart move, overall.
[14:18] * mrmoney2012 (~mrmoney20@97e7b63d.skybroadband.com) Quit (Quit: mrmoney2012)
[14:18] <MProg> looks interesting
[14:18] <shiftplusone> though the fact that it can't be used for anything without a special board will probably limit its use even in the industrial setting.
[14:18] <MProg> ubt where's the price ?
[14:18] <MProg> but*
[14:18] <nid0> $30 ish
[14:18] <shiftplusone> in large quantities
[14:19] <nid0> for its intended marked, 100+ is fairly small quantities
[14:19] <MProg> ok
[14:19] <gordonDrogon> that's $30 for the module but not the base board?
[14:19] <nid0> yeh
[14:19] <shiftplusone> I think it's for both
[14:20] <shiftplusone> nuh, my mistake
[14:20] <ShorTie> it be nifty if it had 2 sodimm sockets so you could add more memory
[14:20] <shiftplusone> but the wording is a little ambiguous.
[14:20] <shiftplusone> But yeah, especially if you're going to have a custom board made for it anyway, 100 is nothing.
[14:21] <gordonDrogon> I don't think to SoC can physically address more memory.
[14:21] <ShorTie> oh
[14:21] <gordonDrogon> And intersting new lease of life for it.
[14:21] <nid0> well, for home/enthusiast use it also opens up the possibility for the farnells and adafruits of the world to design and sell their own baseboards for the pi with different sizes/connection options
[14:22] <gordonDrogon> indeed.
[14:22] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-70-124-70-140.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:22] <gordonDrogon> I wonder if there will now be a Rev 3 Pi with a few other minor fixes...
[14:22] <Stanto> not that I'm aware of...
[14:22] <shiftplusone> I hope not.
[14:23] <shiftplusone> I hope they're moving onto an altogether new design nex.t
[14:23] <shiftplusone> I don't think they'd have a director of hardware just for this.
[14:23] * retrosenator (~sean@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:24] <shiftplusone> The digital signage guys should appreciate this as well.
[14:25] <gordonDrogon> interesting - the schematic indicates that it will boot from USB.
[14:25] <ShorTie> that be nice
[14:25] <MProg> I would like rev.3 to have pin headers on P5 and P6 and a higher rated D1 diode
[14:25] <MProg> that's all
[14:26] * tak30 (~tak30@243.Red-79-158-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:27] * dblessing (~drewb@h210.236.190.173.static.ip.windstream.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:27] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon, Ah, I missed that one. "BCM2835 will fail to boot from eMMC if EMMC_DISABLE_N is LOW and will therefore fall back to booting from USB"
[14:27] <pksato> 5V header pins and USB before polyfuse.
[14:27] <gordonDrogon> the flash/sd runs at 1.8v too.
[14:28] <MProg> "5V header pins" ? 5v logic ?
[14:29] <pksato> yes.
[14:29] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
[14:30] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:30] <MProg> ok...
[14:30] <MProg> hmm
[14:31] <MProg> what happens when you overload one of those little switching phone charger plugs ?
[14:31] <pksato> but, from usb specs, it need some level of overload protection.
[14:31] <pksato> Internal protection?
[14:31] <MProg> dunno
[14:32] <MProg> that's why I'm asking :p
[14:32] * thordon (~thordon@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:32] <gordonDrogon> the gpio comes directly off the SoC - it'll be 3.3v as it is now.
[14:32] <pksato> good one can be have. but, theses cheaps from china can burn on fire.
[14:32] <ShorTie> most likely either burn out or short out deliverying more then 5v i would guess
[14:32] * JlRd (~JlRd@ip68-109-174-116.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:32] <MProg> sounds bad
[14:33] <MProg> :p
[14:33] <gordonDrogon> can't think of a use for one of these - yet.
[14:33] <MProg> I think I prefer my rev.3 ideas :p
[14:33] <pksato> or under protected.
[14:33] <MProg> (safer and more realistic :p)
[14:34] <shiftplusone> MProg, not much happens. It browns out (the voltage drops).
[14:34] <MProg> ok
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[14:37] * utack (~utack@mnch-d9bde9f3.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:37] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:38] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[14:43] * tak30 (~tak30@243.Red-79-158-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[14:43] <gordonDrogon> ah, the gpio can be switched to 1.8v or 3.3v by the looks of it.
[14:44] <gordonDrogon> still - it's an interesting old thing.
[14:44] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[14:46] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:48] <phire> hmm, interesting
[14:50] * scarolan (~seancarol@cpe-70-112-52-158.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:52] <phire> I wonder if that eMMC module will be more reliable than a SD card
[14:54] <phire> well, stupid question
[14:54] * Albori (~Albori@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:56] <MProg> half decent SD cards are pretty reliable already
[14:56] <MProg> in my experience
[14:57] * AndrevS (~andrevs@2001:980:55e0:1:2e44:fdff:fe65:84ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:58] * meiskam (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[14:58] <phire> SD cards seem to be optimised for photo storage
[14:58] <phire> which causes speed issues
[14:58] <gordonDrogon> yea, and I suspect that the modules will be cheap enough that in a couple of years, should it wear out, you just replace the entire module.
[14:59] <phire> btw, USB boot is USB host boot, not usb mass storage boot
[14:59] * ryanteck (~ryan@fsf/member/Ryanteck) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[14:59] <gordonDrogon> the proper embedded folks are using read only root fileing systems and other tricks too.
[14:59] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:00] <phire> yep
[15:00] * utack (~utack@mnch-d9bde9f3.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:02] * HeroicBloodshed (bnc92@ Quit ()
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[15:04] <MProg> I've been thinking about playing with unionfs, aufs etc
[15:04] <shiftplusone> aufs seems to be the thing folks are using
[15:05] <phire> annoyingly, none of them are merged into the kernel
[15:05] <phire> the filesystem people refuse to accept the patches
[15:06] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-97-35.netcologne.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:06] <MProg> I've never actually tried just mounting everything as read only (without aufs or anything), but I assume some things really complain
[15:06] <shiftplusone> the upstream kernel? I was under the impression aufs was already there. =S
[15:08] * lvispy (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:09] <phire> Sadly no
[15:09] <phire> A lot of people patch it in
[15:10] <shiftplusone> what's the reason given?
[15:10] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-96-94.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:12] <MProg> hmm
[15:12] <gordonDrogon> MProg, I think there are some howto's out there- the essence is that you put run stuff - pid's etc. in a ram disk.
[15:13] <gordonDrogon> and a lot of it that is already done anyway if you look at /etc/default/tmpfs
[15:13] <MProg> I suppose I could mount everything read only, and use simlinks to somewhere in a tmpfs to stop things complaining
[15:13] <MProg> ah
[15:13] <MProg> lol
[15:13] <gordonDrogon> yup.
[15:13] <Matt> in theory, the FHS defines what can safely be mounted read-only
[15:14] <gordonDrogon> I built some embedded PBXs some time back that took a slightly different approach - I unpacked a 40MB initrd.gz into a 128MB ramdisk and ran everything from there.
[15:14] <Matt> if you look at *nix history, that's why /var exists
[15:14] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:14] <ShadowJK> emmc isnt inherently more stable or faster
[15:14] <Matt> the rootfs was typically small and just contained things required to boot the system, everything else went under /usr
[15:15] <Matt> then in order to allow for more efficient NFS boot, /var was added and things that needed to be writable under /usr were moved there
[15:15] * shiftplusone sits down and listens to grandpa Matt.
[15:15] <phire> Basically, union filesystems don't quite work
[15:15] <MProg> like a livecd ?
[15:15] <Matt> that meant that /usr could be NFS mounted read-only and shared between multiple systems
[15:15] <MProg> ( gordonDrogon )
[15:15] <Matt> which also explains /usr/local :)
[15:16] <phire> and break posix compatibility, in weird ways
[15:16] <shiftplusone> aah
[15:16] <[Saint]> Oh oh...
[15:16] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:16] <retrosenator> Matt: explain /opt then
[15:16] <MProg> :/
[15:17] <Matt> IIRC, /opt came later
[15:17] <shiftplusone> I've just been using /usr/local as 'stuff not managed by the distro's package manager'.
[15:17] <Matt> and is generally third-party software
[15:17] <[Saint]> I found out how to put my phone's GPU into a low power mode, but it seems to persist across reboot and has stopped listening to me trying to tell it otherwise.
[15:17] <retrosenator> and /sys is linux?
[15:17] <[Saint]> Whoops.
[15:17] <Matt> retrosenator: yup, sysfs is a linuxism
[15:17] <Matt> so are a lot of the extensions in procfs
[15:18] <retrosenator> I have /run ?? what is that?
[15:18] <Matt> odd, normally run is under /var
[15:18] <retrosenator> and /srv
[15:18] <retrosenator> gah, there are new ones all the time
[15:18] <Matt> /srv is another linuxism
[15:18] <shiftplusone> /run is a systemd thing, isn't it?
[15:18] <Matt> ah, maybe
[15:18] * Matt doesn't really like systemd
[15:18] <[Saint]> I believe so.
[15:19] <retrosenator> I have no clue, I didn't know it existed until just now
[15:19] <shiftplusone> "The /run directory is used by systemd and other applications as a non-persistent storage for runtime data like pid files, sockets and state files. "
[15:19] <shiftplusone> retrosenator, are you running Arch?
[15:19] <retrosenator> why not /tmp?
[15:19] <retrosenator> no, mint
[15:19] <Matt> retrosenator: why not /tmp indeed
[15:19] <Matt> or even a subdirectory under /tmp
[15:19] <phire> /run is a tempfs
[15:20] <[Saint]> Re: systemd, anyone else watching the fun on the LKML a and G+?
[15:20] <phire> cause /tmp has permissive access rights
[15:20] <retrosenator> why not /tmp/run
[15:20] <Matt> if you're intrested in such things, check out the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard
[15:20] <[Saint]> Linus got even grumpier than usual. And on a higher horse.
[15:20] <Matt> it probably answers a lot of these questions :)
[15:21] <retrosenator> ok, I will
[15:21] <retrosenator> linux likes to cuss people out
[15:21] <retrosenator> I mean linus
[15:21] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:21] <[Saint]> He's an odd wee fellow.
[15:21] <MProg> something to do with kernel debug messages and flooding ?
[15:22] <retrosenator> but usually he is right when he does
[15:22] <[Saint]> Not so sure about that...
[15:22] <shiftplusone> I don't think he likes to... seems like a more honest approach, if anything.
[15:22] <[Saint]> He's "right". Not necessarily right. ;)
[15:22] <retrosenator> also, when driving, he is either stopped or going maximum speed
[15:23] <shiftplusone> I don't really care how he does it, but he has kept the kernel pretty well in check so far, so if cussing is a part of it, good.
[15:23] <[Saint]> I swear one day someone's gonna take a shot at killing him.
[15:24] <blockh34d> i'll take 50 raging Linus's over one weirding out balmer
[15:24] * utack (~utack@mnch-d9bde9f3.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[15:24] <blockh34d> 'developers developers developers developers'
[15:24] <[Saint]> Lol.
[15:24] <blockh34d> dude was just weird
[15:24] <blockh34d> morning
[15:25] <shiftplusone> If someone does kill him, it sounds like blockh34d has a cloning machine and 50 Linuses ready to go anyway.
[15:25] <MProg> out of all the significant people in the field, I tend to agree with Linus the most
[15:25] <[Saint]> Linus kinda needs to learn how unprofessional his rants make him seem.
[15:26] <retrosenator> I saw a picture of his house, he has like 200 stuffed penguins over his fireplace
[15:26] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:26] <[Saint]> Thinking it is one thing. Making it public another.
[15:26] <shiftplusone> meh... 'unprofessional'
[15:26] <phire> well, someone has to say it
[15:26] <retrosenator> I think it's good to be unprofessional
[15:27] <[Saint]> Not the way he does, though, phire .
[15:27] <[Saint]> He often makes it very personal.
[15:27] <shiftplusone> leave the professionalism to IBM and such.
[15:27] <[Saint]> Which is plain wrong.
[15:27] <[Saint]> No one should act that way.
[15:27] * jfrousval (~jfrousval@ARouen-651-1-346-216.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: jfrousval se déconnecte)
[15:27] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:27] <retrosenator> phear
[15:28] <retrosenator> he claims that he didn't used to have such an ego
[15:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
[15:31] <AbbyTheRat> Banana
[15:31] <AbbyTheRat> Ha,
[15:31] <blockh34d> shiftplusone: 49 if you kill one
[15:31] <blockh34d> don't kill linus! personally i think the guy deserves a medal
[15:31] <AbbyTheRat> Thank goodness IRC strips leading and trailing spaces.. cause I just typed and hit enter a message that had a lot of spaces.. I think the kid been playing with the computer this morning
[15:31] <shiftplusone> I am not the one planning to kill him, [Saint] is.
[15:32] <retrosenator> besides, if he didn't insult people they wouldn't take him seriously
[15:32] <blockh34d> i bet he's a high level inet troll
[15:32] <gordonDrogon> anyone here use SDL2 on a Pi?
[15:32] <blockh34d> the troll of trolls
[15:33] <retrosenator> maybe one of us is him
[15:33] <blockh34d> or 50 of us...
[15:33] <retrosenator> we could all be him except for you
[15:33] * _eddyb_ (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:34] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:34] <blockh34d> maybe i'm him and its a tyler durden thing
[15:34] <AbbyTheRat> you guys are confusing
[15:34] <blockh34d> the first rule of linux is you do not talk about linux!
[15:35] <retrosenator> AbbyTheRat: it's your client doing the stripping
[15:35] <AbbyTheRat> So I worked with gneay and I Find myself missing pycharm and the smoothness of the GUI of this machine over Pi x_x
[15:35] <AbbyTheRat> retrosenator: I forget what was doing the stripping but I said IRC as the whole line to be on the safe side
[15:36] <higuita> [Saint]: all linux rants are plain true, there is no bullshit. He is harder on people close to him and that should known already when something is wrong/bad. he doesn't rant newbies nor little active kernel hackers
[15:36] <blockh34d> maybe he should get some nunchuks
[15:37] <blockh34d> that'll keep em in line
[15:37] <gordonDrogon> please keep it family friendly chaps ...
[15:38] <IT_Sean> ^
[15:39] <[SLB]> meh, dyndns is shutting down the free accounts >_>.
[15:39] <gordonDrogon> looks like you get what you pay for these days...
[15:40] <blockh34d> no more free dyndns? :( thats very sad
[15:40] * _eddyb_ (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:40] <gordonDrogon> run your own - it would cost you under �20 a year including the cheapest of cheap vps's.
[15:40] * _eddyb_ (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:41] <blockh34d> small consolation
[15:41] <shiftplusone> cheap vps's are terrible >/
[15:41] <blockh34d> i just remember using dyndns for quake servers
[15:41] <blockh34d> and homebrew web serving etc
[15:41] * IT_Sean (~Ult_Ubunt@applefritter/IRCStaff/UltimateMacUser1) Quit (Quit: error)
[15:41] <blockh34d> why does greed have to screw up everything, ugh
[15:42] <gordonDrogon> it not greed!
[15:42] <blockh34d> not that dyndns is greedy but somewhere, greed factored in
[15:42] <blockh34d> nah maybe not
[15:42] <blockh34d> but someone is putting the screws to them
[15:42] <blockh34d> and they are
[15:42] <gordonDrogon> it costs someone somewhere money to run these services.
[15:42] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p2127-ipbf2705souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:42] <blockh34d> if every anything deserved a gov grant, its dyndns
[15:42] <blockh34d> if ever i mean
[15:42] <blockh34d> or some sort of academic funding maybe
[15:42] <gordonDrogon> someone has to pay the electricity, the data centrre costs, the internet fees, domain registrations and so on.
[15:43] * Somniac (~Somniac@27-33-82-114.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:43] <[SLB]> at the moment my domain has an entry with dyndns and i use it for my pi, will see if i still have the other no-ip one active :\
[15:43] <blockh34d> or even a kickstarter, i'd contribute
[15:43] <gordonDrogon> you can get a .co.uk for under a fiver a year.
[15:43] <blockh34d> sometimes spending any money online at all is the challenge
[15:44] <blockh34d> maybe people dont have a credit card, or a street address... should that prevent them from using the inet?
[15:44] <blockh34d> dyndns was a viable option for a lot of folks
[15:44] <blockh34d> i'll miss it
[15:45] <nid0> crikey, maybe people will have to just use one of the other countless free alternatives to do the same thing
[15:46] <[SLB]> yeap dyndns had quite nice names
[15:46] <blockh34d> yah fair enough
[15:46] <blockh34d> but i'll still miss dyndns
[15:46] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[15:46] * caral (~caral@tmo-109-121.customers.d1-online.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:47] <[SLB]> to me as long as it works, it's fine, hoping in a not so stupid url lol
[15:48] <[SLB]> hm my router handles dyndns and tzo.com, which i never checked, let's see
[15:48] <AbbyTheRat> I use no-ip.org <_<
[15:49] <AbbyTheRat> and dlinkdyndns I Think
[15:49] <gordonDrogon> or you could get a decent ISP who gives you a static IP address.
[15:49] <nid0> indeed
[15:49] <[SLB]> TZO has been acquired by Dyn
[15:49] <[SLB]> lol
[15:50] <gordonDrogon> so, no-one here with SDL2. Lots online but I was hoping to find some first-hand expeirence of it. I guess I'll have to give it a go for myself then! :)
[15:52] <blockh34d> we could try it goether if you want gordonDrogon i'm over due but i have no experience with it on rpi yet
[15:52] <blockh34d> i do want to see if it offers any speed improvements over the pi3d setup i'm using now
[15:52] <blockh34d> what is your compiler setup like?
[15:52] <gordonDrogon> I've seen one post suggesting hardware acelleration for 2D stuff on the console
[15:53] <gordonDrogon> which is exactly what I need - however having it under X would be good too.
[15:53] <blockh34d> yah i keep thinking about that for my text mode app
[15:53] <gordonDrogon> my compiler - it's gcc 4.7
[15:53] <blockh34d> but then i think wtf thats way too much effort
[15:53] <blockh34d> i got 4.6.3 here, do i need to upgrade? how'd you get a newer one?
[15:54] <blockh34d> i'd swear i just updated
[15:54] <gordonDrogon> family friendly please..
[15:54] <blockh34d> oh the wf_?
[15:54] <blockh34d> my bad force of habit
[15:54] <blockh34d> err lol _'s the wrong letter
[15:54] <gordonDrogon> indeed.
[15:54] * _cheney (~cheney@nat.sierrabravo.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:54] <blockh34d> have not had enough coffee yet
[15:54] <gordonDrogon> gcc 4.7 is installed as well as 4.6
[15:54] <MProg> 4.8.2 here :p
[15:55] <gordonDrogon> 4.7 doesn't seem any faste to me though, despite some people saying otherwise.
[15:55] <blockh34d> well if you feel like posting your hello world to a pastie i'd try it too maybe we can plow through the hurdles faster that way
[15:56] <blockh34d> all i really need to do is spin an iso triangle
[15:56] <blockh34d> texture mapped iso triangle
[15:56] * jluisn (~quassel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:56] <MProg> recent version produce faster code apparently
[15:56] <MProg> versions*
[15:56] <blockh34d> its realy starting to catch up to visual studio eh?
[15:56] <MProg> ...
[15:57] <blockh34d> no? i wouldnt really know but i thought i heard as much
[15:57] <[Saint]> Hahahaha...this project just named itself.
[15:57] <[Saint]> I was messing around with a nichrome heating element I made.
[15:57] <blockh34d> 50_linus_clones.cpp?
[15:57] <[Saint]> I tappear to have mande a RaspberryHigh.
[15:57] <[Saint]> *appear
[15:57] <blockh34d> oh nice
[15:57] <blockh34d> diffeent than the RaspberryHy?
[15:57] <[Saint]> Quite.
[15:57] <blockh34d> thats another phonetically similar project
[15:58] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[15:58] <blockh34d> is it floating 4 ft above the covers now?
[15:58] <blockh34d> like the gatekeeper?
[15:58] * blockh34d wonders if anyone gets it
[15:58] <[Saint]> Oooooh! I could add a grinder and feed mechanism to it.
[15:59] <blockh34d> what does it do btw? 3d printing extruder?
[15:59] <gordonDrogon> my hello world - er - 10 print "Hello world"
[15:59] <blockh34d> 20 GOTO 10
[15:59] <gordonDrogon> my application is all 2D - it's a BASIC interperter.
[15:59] <[Saint]> 20 GOTO 10
[15:59] <[Saint]> Hahaha, snap.
[15:59] <blockh34d> thats cuz i'm a l33t hacker
[16:00] <gordonDrogon> these days it's actually 3 lines: cycle // print "Hello world" // repeat
[16:00] <blockh34d> i hack the gibson with basic
[16:00] <blockh34d> ok list off the versions of basic you know ppl
[16:00] * dik_dak (~dik_dak@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:00] <gordonDrogon> minecraft hacking in basic: http://unicorn.drogon.net/mcClock.png
[16:00] <MProg> euh
[16:00] <MProg> v-tech basic
[16:00] <blockh34d> basica, gwbasic, quickbasic, powerbasic, truebasic, darkbasic, that basic wiring language for basicstamps
[16:00] <[Saint]> blockh34d: I'm controlling a nichrome heating element and thermometer with a raspi so I can heat some...errr..."incense".
[16:01] <MProg> amos
[16:01] <MProg> qbasic
[16:01] <[Saint]> Questionable family friendly content, I guess.
[16:01] <blockh34d> [Saint]: ohhhh what an awesome idea
[16:01] <blockh34d> its friendly to my family
[16:01] <blockh34d> needs a web server
[16:01] <blockh34d> embedded
[16:01] <[Saint]> Hahaha
[16:02] <MProg> lol
[16:02] <blockh34d> oh yah visual basic
[16:02] <blockh34d> i'd swear i'm missing a few
[16:02] <MProg> amos > *
[16:02] <blockh34d> and they're all useless!
[16:02] <darkbasic> blockh34d: lol
[16:02] <blockh34d> except gordonDrogon's
[16:02] <gordonDrogon> Hm. I need to make a Pi controlled heater at some point - was just going to use a 60watt bulb.
[16:03] <MProg> sorta basic for amiga
[16:03] <blockh34d> haha sorry darkbasic, i liked darkbasic for a while
[16:03] <gordonDrogon> Add RTB or FUZE basic to your lists now :)
[16:03] <MProg> I did some great stuff with Amos on an A500
[16:03] <blockh34d> but it's unable to go the distance
[16:03] <gordonDrogon> (RTB is my original - Return to Basic.
[16:03] <blockh34d> cool
[16:03] <[Saint]> gordonDrogon: different application, I'm guessing?
[16:03] <gordonDrogon> [Saint], heating a bread proving cupboard.
[16:04] <gordonDrogon> bulb and a low speed fan.
[16:04] <blockh34d> gordonDrogon: i will thanks, i collect basic's
[16:04] <[Saint]> Aha. I thought as much when you mentioned the bulb.
[16:04] <blockh34d> [Saint]: you coul dput the element on a plotter and then use it to draw special patterns in your toast
[16:04] <gordonDrogon> https://projects.drogon.net/return-to-basic/
[16:04] <[Saint]> gordonDrogon: would a heat mat not be better for said application?
[16:04] <[Saint]> heating from the bottom up?
[16:04] <gordonDrogon> [Saint], no idea. maybe.
[16:05] <blockh34d> like jesus toast, velociraptor toast, jesus of the velociraptor's toast, etc
[16:05] <gordonDrogon> also going to put a bowl of water in with a mesh and another fan to try to control the humidity.
[16:05] <[Saint]> I built a box for my LCD w/ a heat mat stuck on top of it when I finally got rid on my 27" CRT monitor.
[16:05] <blockh34d> ohhh you could control it with LOGO
[16:05] <[Saint]> My cat was NOT happy she lost her cosy perch.
[16:05] <[Saint]> So I had to built one.
[16:05] <blockh34d> haha
[16:05] <[Saint]> ...but then it wasn't warm.
[16:05] <[Saint]> hence, heating pad.
[16:05] <gordonDrogon> blockh34d, logo? my basic has turtle graphics built-in.
[16:06] <blockh34d> well this ones probably not giving her cancer, so even better
[16:06] <blockh34d> gordonDrogon: there you go, all you need then
[16:06] <blockh34d> first toast should have 10 print 'hello world' drawn on it then
[16:06] <gordonDrogon> I never really liked logo - I did consider writing one before I did my basic though.
[16:06] * Da_QuiK (~Da_QuiK@94-225-204-113.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:06] <blockh34d> i imagine it for other things
[16:06] <blockh34d> like if the turn/forwards setps werent literal amounts but relative and varied
[16:07] <blockh34d> and used to generate multiple cross sections of organic shaped 3d objects
[16:07] <blockh34d> like tree's etc
[16:07] <gordonDrogon> or maybe drive a robot...
[16:07] <gordonDrogon> like Big Track did 30 years ago..
[16:07] <blockh34d> yah it'd be great for driving a robot
[16:07] <gordonDrogon> it was turtle graphics, but the didn't call it that.
[16:07] <blockh34d> but i think about generating 3d objects algorythmically
[16:07] <blockh34d> i think its better than static mesh
[16:07] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o ReggieUK
[16:07] <blockh34d> for some stuff anyways
[16:07] <gordonDrogon> minecraft is an excellet, if somewhat slow and low-resolution 3D output device.
[16:08] <gordonDrogon> so as well as left/right, I add up, down into it ...
[16:08] <blockh34d> i'd like minecraft more if it didnt look so much like minecraft
[16:08] <blockh34d> its just a little too blocky for me
[16:08] <shiftplusone> O_o
[16:09] <blockh34d> but i'm spoiled, i'll make my own minecraft if i want, with blackjack and strippers
[16:09] <[Saint]> Not sure if sarcasm or serious
[16:09] <blockh34d> a little serious ya
[16:09] <gordonDrogon> it's the tradeoff between memory to represent it all and cpu power to draw it all.
[16:09] <[Saint]> You know blocks are the point, yeah? ;)
[16:09] <blockh34d> its kinda not very great looking
[16:09] <blockh34d> yah i make comparable looks out of javascript
[16:09] <blockh34d> http://prodev.comule.com/jstest/
[16:09] <blockh34d> i'd prefer it if it was all metaballs
[16:10] <blockh34d> thats how the terrain in my bird game works
[16:10] <blockh34d> you can dig any shape or size tunnel you want
[16:10] <blockh34d> and it auto metaballs the whole thing
[16:11] <blockh34d> are blocks the point?
[16:11] <blockh34d> thats the other thing that gets me about minecraft
[16:11] <blockh34d> absolutely no idea what the point is
[16:11] <blockh34d> its fun like legos but that wears off quickly... i'd rather more gameplay
[16:14] * Viper7 (~viper7@ppp121-44-132-211.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:14] <blockh34d> btw jstest2 is almost playable
[16:14] <gordonDrogon> so googling suggests sdl2 hs hardware support for opengl es on the Pi... however I don't use opengl es, so wondering if it will be worth the effort.
[16:14] <shiftplusone> that doesn't make much sense
[16:15] <blockh34d> why not extend opengl to your basic gordonDrogon?
[16:15] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:15] <gordonDrogon> because it doesn't need it.
[16:15] <blockh34d> kind of like darkbasic
[16:15] <gordonDrogon> it's 3D onyl.
[16:15] <gordonDrogon> *2d only.
[16:15] <blockh34d> yah but even still thats nice
[16:15] <blockh34d> my game is 2d and it uses opengl
[16:15] <blockh34d> thats how it gets 50+fps at 1080p
[16:15] <shiftplusone> if you're using opengl, it doesn't matter if sdl is accelerated, since you're not really using SDL for rendering. I thought you said sdl2 was properly accelerated on the pi earlier?
[16:16] <gordonDrogon> I had read that sdl2 was acellerated on the Pi, but re-googling now, I only find references to opengl es.
[16:16] <blockh34d> i can't figure out much of a difference between opengl and opengles
[16:17] <blockh34d> some functions have OES at the end? otherwise seems the same to me
[16:17] <shiftplusone> blockh34d, the simplistic answer is that opengl es is a subset of opengl.
[16:17] <blockh34d> for basic stuff anyways
[16:17] <gordonDrogon> right now, I treat it as a framebuffer of pixels - the slow part is actually pushing that buffer to the screen - the update or flip calls.
[16:17] <blockh34d> yah i figured that much out but i have not encountered any limitations yet that i can identify
[16:17] <blockh34d> yah in opengl that part is free
[16:18] <blockh34d> but loading the stuff onto the GPU might not be
[16:18] <gordonDrogon> free as in the gpu does it rather than the ARM?
[16:18] <blockh34d> thats the hurdle i hit right now
[16:18] <blockh34d> right
[16:18] <blockh34d> afaik anyways
[16:18] <gordonDrogon> all I need is an old-fashioned blitter ...
[16:18] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon, are you sure that SDL2 isn't accelerated by using opengl, rather than expecting you to use opengl instead of sdl?
[16:19] <blockh34d> even 1080p fast updated fullscreen, barely impacts cpu if there isnt other stuff going on
[16:19] <gordonDrogon> shiftplusone, I've no idea - going to give it a go this afternoon anyway and run some checks.
[16:19] <blockh34d> gordonDrogon: days of blitters are gone i'm afraid
[16:19] <gordonDrogon> blockh34d, at 1080p, the arm doing the block-move to update the screen is slow.
[16:19] <blockh34d> now its all iso mapped polys
[16:20] <blockh34d> i bet it is
[16:20] * aural (~aural@unaffiliated/necrodearia) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:20] <gordonDrogon> sure - but what I'm saying is that's all I need. if the gpu could do the block move faster than the ARM can then it would make a difference.
[16:20] <blockh34d> i'm pretty sure the gpu can do it so much faster its very worth it
[16:21] <blockh34d> but i don't know for sure, just for my application, its been worht it
[16:21] <gordonDrogon> it depends on SDL2 using the gpu to do that.
[16:21] <gordonDrogon> I'll find out today.
[16:21] * _eddyb_ is now known as eddyb
[16:21] <blockh34d> please post your findings i'm interested in all this
[16:21] <gordonDrogon> looks like compiling it isn't hard.
[16:21] <blockh34d> yah i think about porting my code over from using pi3d
[16:22] <blockh34d> which i just barely use anyways...mostly just pull off a reference to the Opengles object it reveals to call various glFunc's
[16:22] <blockh34d> but i dunno about using sdl2 from python
[16:22] <blockh34d> could be a whole nother headache
[16:24] <blockh34d> i wonder what to do with my weird little javascript 3d terrain code
[16:24] * pm001 (~pm0001@ Quit ()
[16:24] <blockh34d> seems like its some sort of game waiting to happen
[16:25] <blockh34d> doesnt use any webgl for that btw, all canvas calls... so it works on almost any device, but maybe very slowly
[16:25] <gordonDrogon> python? do people still use that old thing?
[16:26] <blockh34d> i like it for scripting game play elements
[16:26] * caral (~caral@tmo-109-121.customers.d1-online.com) Quit (Quit: caral)
[16:26] <blockh34d> beats whipping LUA into shape for the purpose imo
[16:27] * jfrousval (~jfrousval@ARouen-651-1-336-73.w90-23.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:27] * pwh (~pwh@c-24-61-11-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:28] <shiftplusone> Bah.... last simpsons episode has a minecraft themed couch gag <_M
[16:28] <shiftplusone> <*
[16:28] <RaTTuS|BIG> umm 7x RPI compute board + gig switch would make a fantastit little board
[16:29] <[Saint]> Ah. Phew. Overclocking the GPU again resets the lowpower bit.
[16:29] <[Saint]> Odd.
[16:30] * pwh (~pwh@c-24-61-11-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[16:31] <AbbyTheRat> Interesitng, anyone read the blog on the new pi compute module?
[16:31] <nid0> yep
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[16:38] <[Saint]> I got a Moonstone 6000 to use as a kind of UPS for a couple of raspis and a snowball - I'll see how it fares.
[16:38] <[Saint]> Its a very cute little battery bank.
[16:39] <blockh34d> how much does it weigh?
[16:39] <blockh34d> and how long do you think it will power those microcomps?
[16:39] <gordonDrogon> well its compiling now. (sdl2)
[16:39] <[Saint]> Its 6A...so, I'd say, from back of the envelope math..."A bloody long time"
[16:40] <[Saint]> :)
[16:40] <blockh34d> i'm thinking about power supplies for my helmet
[16:40] <gordonDrogon> [Saint], I have one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00D5T3QK4/improtripe-21 runs a Pi for 24 hours.
[16:40] <blockh34d> so i'm trying a couple portable power packs for charing up ipods etc
[16:41] <[Saint]> gordonDrogon: I guess you have it charging fulltime? That's what I'm planning.
[16:42] <gordonDrogon> [Saint], 6000mAh - is not 6 amps - but that's just over a thord of the unit I have, so expect 6-8 hours or so.
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[16:42] <gordonDrogon> [Saint], I rarely use it. but it keeps its charge.
[16:42] <[Saint]> I can't be bothered managing charging of it so I figure I'll just keep it plugged in 24/7
[16:43] <blockh34d> hopefully the chargin circuit turns itself off after full charge
[16:43] <blockh34d> and just maintains charge after that like a trickle charger
[16:44] <blockh34d> otherwise your battery wont make it long i think
[16:44] <[Saint]> I'd find it hard to believe a modern power bank wouldn't manage charging correctly.
[16:44] <nid0> I wonder how long itll be till someone whips up a pi compute backboard with a built in battery clip and circuitry for an on-board UPS
[16:44] <[Saint]> But its possible.
[16:45] <blockh34d> yes me too but i think it depends on the manufacturer, i got a car jumpstarter battery not even six monthes ago brand new that still recommends you unplug it when its fully charged
[16:45] <blockh34d> for the health of the battery too, not just ot conserve power
[16:45] <[Saint]> I'll take it to bits (like pretty much everything I get) when I get it and have a poke around.
[16:45] <gordonDrogon> that one I have recommends unplugging once its charged too.
[16:46] <blockh34d> also my little usb porta power pack does as well
[16:46] <blockh34d> so ya watch out for that
[16:46] <[Saint]> If it can't correctly manage its charging, I can, I guess.
[16:46] <[Saint]> I just don't want to do it manually.
[16:46] <blockh34d> maybe control it from rpi
[16:46] <blockh34d> lil gpio action
[16:46] * [Saint] nods
[16:46] <gordonDrogon> I'll be designing a dual-battery lead charger this summer.
[16:46] <gordonDrogon> *lead acid battery.
[16:46] <blockh34d> i want a good powersupply to run a rpi + powered hub + small display + speakers
[16:47] <blockh34d> thinking about making my own little chunky tablet
[16:47] <gordonDrogon> start weightlifting :)
[16:47] <blockh34d> and making all of every edge a usb jack
[16:47] <[Saint]> I disassembled the horrible tablet/raspberrypi mess I conjured up
[16:47] <[Saint]> It worked. but it was bloody impractical.
[16:47] <blockh34d> lol i plan to make an ironman exosckeleton to carry it around with
[16:48] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:48] <blockh34d> sckele? lol
[16:48] <blockh34d> need moar coffee
[16:49] <blockh34d> didnt some larger college just do that too? or maybe IBM or some company
[16:49] <blockh34d> homemade DIY tablet from rpi
[16:49] * Poison[BLX] (poisonbl@iceland.sdf.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:49] <[Saint]> I basically had a raspi, a 4-port hub, and a pico-psu stuck on the back of a 10" touchscreen with velcro
[16:49] <MProg> gordonDrogon, does your 15000mAh backup battery "flicker" when you connect and disconnect the mains power ?
[16:49] <[Saint]> It was a bit of a mess but it worked.
[16:49] <blockh34d> sweet
[16:49] <blockh34d> yah thats what i have in mind more or less
[16:49] <gordonDrogon> MProg, not that I've noticed - power in is �USB.
[16:49] <blockh34d> maybe a custom pen to use it as a painting device
[16:51] <MProg> the ones from adafruit do that apparently so I was wondering if it was a common prob
[16:52] <blockh34d> <3 adafruit
[16:52] <blockh34d> great customer service
[16:52] <MProg> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1566
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[16:52] <MProg> "Also, when you start and stop charging the pack, it will flicker the output, this can cause a 'power sensitive' device like the Pi or an iPhone to reset on the power supply."
[16:52] * Pitel_IPEX (~pitel@gatekeeper.bm.ipex.cz) Quit (Quit: (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻)
[16:53] <nid0> the answer to that problem is a better power pack
[16:53] <MProg> that would be really annoying
[16:53] <gordonDrogon> I don't think I've noticed it on mine. but I don't think I've charged it when it's running either.
[16:53] <blockh34d> maybe a filter cap?
[16:54] * pwh (~pwh@c-24-61-11-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:54] <MProg> getting low on power, quick plug in mains, REBOOT :s
[16:54] <MProg> yeah maybe blockh34d
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[16:55] <MProg> but it would be nicer if it wasn't necessary
[16:55] <blockh34d> yah
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[16:55] <CRNorris> hullo
[16:55] <blockh34d> hi
[16:55] <MProg> hi
[16:56] <CRNorris> I'm building an SD card image and I want to keep track of it right...
[16:57] <CRNorris> Soooo should I image the SD card with DD and just use that to restore? Commit my changes to the base image to a source control repository? Commit all the files to a source control repository?
[16:57] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit ()
[16:58] * shiftplusone would just write a script to generate said image and keep track of the changes in the script instead.
[16:58] * jonno11 (~jonno11@amigopod.rave.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:58] <gordonDrogon> I'd use rsync to copy it back.
[16:58] <gordonDrogon> then, if you're clever, you use cp -al on your copy, then when you rsync it again, it only copys changes.
[16:59] <gordonDrogon> you end up with lots and lots of "images", but each one only takes the space of the differences.
[16:59] <RaTTuS|BIG> https://twitter.com/NewsFrames/status/419080863431663616 awesome
[17:00] <shiftplusone> heh
[17:01] <CRNorris> thanks for the info gordonDrogon. Would I need to prepare the partitions etc. on a new SD card before restoring with rsync?
[17:01] <gordonDrogon> CRNorris, yes.
[17:02] <CRNorris> ok, thanks
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[17:27] <gordonDrogon> right. sdl2 compiled & installed - now to change 50 files from #include <SDL/ to SDL2/
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[17:28] <shiftplusone> might need a few more changes than that. O_o
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[17:30] <_ynk> hi everyone, does anyone run gentoo on his raspberry pi? I'm planning to install it on mine (which i ordered) and I wonder if I might encounter any (known) issues.
[17:31] <gordonDrogon> shiftplusone, yes I know - but stopped at the first hurdle, just getting it to compile. more makefile fiddling.
[17:32] <shiftplusone> _ynk, out of curiosity, why on earth?
[17:34] <gordonDrogon> right. lots of changes. more earl grey required.
[17:36] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[17:36] <_ynk> shiftplusone: because I want to learn more about gnu/linux and this seems like a fun DIY project.
[17:37] <_ynk> no actual benefit rather than my enjoyment and the learning process (and gentoo, is, as i heard, easier to costumize. but that's not the reason)
[17:38] * MrVector (~Vector@host31-54-24-40.range31-54.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:38] <Poison[BLX]> _ynk: I don't actively right now but I have. The biggest concern is offloading the compiling and repeated read/write to a secondary machine, qemu-user's the most efficient approach I've found for that, at least for the initial build, but it's a bit of a steep setup curve. Crossdev and distcc *should* work for offloading from an on-pi setup, but I haven't attempted it.
[17:38] <shiftplusone> Would be more fun on your PC or in a VM and leave the pi for Arch. You'll just spend more time waiting for things to compile that actually using the pi. On a PC, at least you learn a little by tailoring Gentoo to your hardware, but I am not sure you learn much by doing the same on the pi.
[17:38] <Poison[BLX]> ^
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[17:39] <Poison[BLX]> that. I dabble with it on the pi 'cause I use it on all my other systems... but arch or raspbian *just works* on the pi, making it a big selling point over getting Gentoo up and running :)
[17:39] * Raynerd (~pi@host86-166-184-103.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:39] <shiftplusone> and with Arch, you still get the education side of things.
[17:39] * jiuweigui (~jiuweigui@unaffiliated/jiuweigui) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] <shiftplusone> same with Raspbian if you start with the netinstall.
[17:40] <Poison[BLX]> (all my other systems = 5 laptops and a 'router' that're actively up and running. My windows/steam/bf4/etc desktop not counted ;) )
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[17:43] <_ynk> thanks for the detailed answers guys. I will take the suggestion for not installing gentoo. I guess installing it on a VM (or more likely on my old PC) would be more sane. also I have previous experience with arch so I guess it will work for me.
[17:44] <shiftplusone> (don't get me wrong, Gentoo is an excellent distro)
[17:44] <_ynk> of course!
[17:44] <Poison[BLX]> my recommendation for learning the internals of linux is to set up the pi with either a stripped minimal raspbian or arch, then bring up a VM or second real box with Gentoo, follow the handbok for the install. Once Gentoo's up and running, dabble with it for a bit, get comfortable, and then dive into LFS. :D
[17:44] <shiftplusone> LFS was.... fun.
[17:44] * Hydra (~Hydra@5751c98f.skybroadband.com) Quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference)
[17:45] <Poison[BLX]> and leave the pi for the ridiculous list of things the pi's good at ;)
[17:45] <_ynk> but you stated what I didn't think about - I'd have to wait for software to compile everytime, which would probably delay me from doing what I want with my pi
[17:45] <_ynk> LFS should probably be a summer project for me, once I graduate :-p
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[17:48] <clever> shiftplusone: i initialy tried LFS on a system with bad sectors
[17:48] <clever> that was .... fun ....
[17:49] <_ynk> mmm how did that go? :o
[17:49] <clever> i had to restart the process a dozen times, every time it corrupted something
[17:50] <clever> they where spreading
[17:50] <_ynk> oh haha
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[18:13] <gordonDrogon> right. looks like moving to sdl2 is going to involve major changes to my code )-: So it's not going to happen right away )-:
[18:13] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:13] <gordonDrogon> it also looks like I can't just pop it up in a window like I currently do, so running it side by side with minecraft is going to be somewhat challenging )-:
[18:14] * jonno11 (~jonno11@amigopod.rave.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[18:14] * gordonDrogon sighs.
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[18:23] <Demon_Jester> Will anyone be able to help me with direct connection to the ethernet pi? from laptop to pi I have set both ip addresses on same subnet (pi laptop the netmask on both devices is and the gateway on both devies is also
[18:24] <Demon_Jester> whats the problem?
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[18:25] <gordonDrogon> right - what's the problem?
[18:25] <gordonDrogon> or the question...
[18:27] * ChanServ sets mode -o shiftplusone
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[18:30] <Encrypt> Demon_Jester, Yes, what is the question? :p
[18:31] <Demon_Jester> question is why cant i ssh into my pi if im on the same subnet with my laptop and pi
[18:31] <AbbyTheRat> o_o.. We have info about the devices but not what's the bothering him
[18:31] <AbbyTheRat> bingo! is ssh deamon running on your pi?
[18:31] <AbbyTheRat> daemon*
[18:31] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@p2127-ipbf2705souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:31] <Demon_Jester> yes i enabled it earlier
[18:31] <AbbyTheRat> port open across the network?
[18:32] <Encrypt> AbbyTheRat, You're typing very fast :p
[18:32] <AbbyTheRat> oh nvm, direct connection
[18:32] <clever> you shouldnt have to open a port when on the lan
[18:32] <gordonDrogon> basics: can you ping each other?
[18:32] <AbbyTheRat> clever, but it's been an issue so I just threw it out there for now
[18:32] <Encrypt> Demon_Jester, How do you SSH to it?
[18:32] <AbbyTheRat> although you could have firewall blocking for some stupid reason
[18:32] <clever> AbbyTheRat: i have had routers where the wifi can NEVER ping anything on wired
[18:32] <Encrypt> What is the answer in the command line also?
[18:32] <Demon_Jester> in ubuntu
[18:33] <Demon_Jester> no route to host
[18:33] <Encrypt> Retry then
[18:33] <clever> that means arp failed to find the ip on the lan
[18:33] * lvispy (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:33] <gordonDrogon> usually means the network interface is down, but step one is to ping.
[18:33] <Encrypt> Demon_Jester, How many times did you try?
[18:33] <clever> ping also relies on arp
[18:33] <Demon_Jester> 8 times
[18:33] <Encrypt> And can you ping it?
[18:33] <AbbyTheRat> Encrypt: I am? I don't think I type very fast at all
[18:33] <Demon_Jester> no i cannot says host unreachable
[18:33] <gordonDrogon> it's also possible that the came is broken - mii-tool will check the links working.
[18:33] <AbbyTheRat> maybe I do and it just happens that I'm not making so much mistakes
[18:34] <clever> Demon_Jester: can the pi access the internet?
[18:34] <Encrypt> AbbyTheRat, I started typing "is the SSH daemon running?" when you already had written it :p
[18:34] <AbbyTheRat> NO NO NO. NOT TODAY! I'm NOT going to listen to that song! >_> I already had a sad crying day yesterday, I don't want to start another one today.
[18:34] <Demon_Jester> yes
[18:35] <AbbyTheRat> can the pi ping your laptop?
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[18:35] * lvispy (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:35] <Demon_Jester> i will see
[18:35] * lvispy_ (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:36] <AbbyTheRat> Hmm, you set the gateway as 1.1, but they are connected to each other?
[18:36] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:36] <AbbyTheRat> not via lan?
[18:37] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:37] <Demon_Jester> the gateway on eth0 is 1.1 same on my laptop for eth0 connection
[18:37] <AbbyTheRat> Is there a chance you could plug the pi into the LAN instead of the laptop and see if that works?
[18:37] <Demon_Jester> i could. hold on
[18:38] <clever> you generaly need to use different subnets if you want to plug the pi directly into the laptop
[18:38] <clever> the laptop needs a unique ip and subnet on each card
[18:38] * GodPuppet (~godpuppet@186-244-210-94.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:39] <clever> and set the laptop as the gateway
[18:39] <AbbyTheRat> clever: he was talking about gateway ip there
[18:39] * lvispy (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:39] <AbbyTheRat> honestly thou, I find it's easier to config the network if everything just connects to the LAN instead of worrying about direct connections
[18:39] <Demon_Jester> so on the pi i should have the gateway same as my up on my laptop? (
[18:39] <Demon_Jester> my ip(
[18:40] <clever> AbbyTheRat: yeah
[18:40] <clever> Demon_Jester: only if you plug the pi directly into the laptop
[18:40] <Demon_Jester> ok
[18:40] <AbbyTheRat> did plugging it in to the lan work?
[18:42] <Demon_Jester> sorry gimme a second
[18:42] <Demon_Jester> crap i set the gateway to wrong router
[18:42] <Demon_Jester> hold on im gonna try what clever said first.
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[18:44] <clever> if your connecting to a normal LAN, you shouldnt have to set the gateway or anything else
[18:44] <clever> just set it to dhcp mode
[18:44] <AbbyTheRat> that's also I what I prefer!
[18:44] <AbbyTheRat> and set a static IP via the leasing
[18:45] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:54] * lvispy_ (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:54] <AbbyTheRat> Demon_Jester: soo how is it working for you? :)
[18:54] * atouk (~kvirc@ool-4575268a.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:54] * cognocev (~cognocev@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[18:57] * mpmc is now known as mpmc[BNC4FREE]
[18:58] * XpineX (~XpineX@93-160-241-126-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[19:00] * cognocev (~cognocev@c-178-73-203-50.anonymous.at.anonine.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[19:07] <AbbyTheRat> what the hell? I swore I set the keyboard to UK layout >_>
[19:09] * knob (~knob@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:09] <knob> Hello everyone!
[19:09] <AbbyTheRat> heya
[19:09] <knob> Just read the news about the rPi module
[19:09] <Encrypt> o/ knob
[19:09] <knob> I WANT ONE!
[19:09] <knob> Hey Encrypt
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[19:13] * dreamreal (~jottinge@redhat/dreamreal) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:14] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> Single sourced, poorly documented with no commitment from the manufacturer they'll remain available...
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> Great chouce
[19:15] <gordonDrogon> Liz has said they're in it for the long-term.
[19:15] * XpineX (~XpineX@93-160-241-126-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:15] <gordonDrogon> but it's your money :)
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[19:17] <knob> What?
[19:17] <knob> You guys talking about the module?
[19:18] <gordonDrogon> guess so.
[19:19] <gordonDrogon> or SpeedEvil is grumbling about something else :)
[19:19] * EastLight (n@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:19] <knob> haha
[19:19] <knob> Well, I am very excited for the module
[19:20] <knob> I have various rPis which don't fit inside the enclosure I am placing them
[19:20] <gordonDrogon> I am... but I don't have any immediate uses for it.
[19:20] <knob> So I directly solder the power cables
[19:20] <gordonDrogon> sure - but with the module, you'll still need a breakout board - and I think the current "reference" one is about the same size a a Pi is currently.
[19:20] <knob> Un-solder the USB ports, and make an extension for them with cables
[19:20] <gordonDrogon> with less features...
[19:20] <knob> User a "short" microSD card adapter, and a short RJ45 cable...
[19:20] <blockh34d> knob careful about bypassing the polyfuse, if thats what you're describing
[19:21] <blockh34d> depending on where and how you hook up that power you may be doing that
[19:21] <knob> gordonDrogon, true about the breakout board... in fact, I think it is even bigger than the current rPi... yet, I would buy my DIMM (?) receptacle, and solder what I need. Should be smaller
[19:21] <gordonDrogon> so you'd really need to design your own baseboard for it.
[19:21] <[SLB]> i don't know about this module, the good things are surely double cam/display outputs and many more gpio pins, but lacks of many other things
[19:21] <blockh34d> yah i want a card adapter like that so i can get that little bit of sdcard from sticking out
[19:21] <knob> blockh34d, really? Got a pic/diagram?
[19:22] <knob> blockh34d, I bought them from China... yet Adafruit also sells them
[19:22] <blockh34d> knob: no but from what i understand, the poly fuse and protection it offers is only engaged by using the power hookup, the mini/micro usb hookup
[19:22] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:22] <knob> Man, I don't see where it would be. I solder just after the microUSB hookup
[19:22] <blockh34d> chan please correct me if i'm wrong but i think you have to use that usb power hookup to get some fuse action
[19:23] <gordonDrogon> some people are happy without the polyfuse protection though...
[19:23] <blockh34d> sec maybe i can find something on google images
[19:23] <knob> blockh34d, let me see if I can google a pic, which I used as isnpiration for what I do... then we can see if I'm missing the fuse
[19:23] <knob> lol
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[19:23] <blockh34d> yah i have been bypassing it apparently by using the other usb jack as my power hookup with a powered hub
[19:23] <blockh34d> which works fine but i think i coul dpossibly overdraw it if i tried
[19:23] <blockh34d> k
[19:23] <blockh34d> knob: its a little green square i think
[19:23] <blockh34d> near that hookup
[19:24] <blockh34d> i think mine has two kinda 7's on it
[19:24] <gordonDrogon> blockh34d, it depends where you overdraw it through - the Pi itself is unlikely to overdraw unless you drop a paper clip on it - but the other usb port might - or the gpio might ...
[19:24] <blockh34d> one upside down, not really a 7 but that shape
[19:24] <knob> blockh34d, this is what I do: http://www2.pmb.co.nz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_2981m_raspberry-pi.jpg (yet that pic isn't mine)
[19:24] <blockh34d> yah i have gpio pins powering a little lcd an di dont think i'm going to be able to do that
[19:24] <blockh34d> i think my lcd will need its own supply
[19:24] * nx5 is now known as nx5_off
[19:25] <knob> Man, I also de-solder the audio plug, and yellow video RCA plug.
[19:25] <knob> I basically Frankenstein the thing... yet they work awesomely.
[19:25] <gordonDrogon> how big is the lcd? normal character ones are ok - as is the adafruit one with touchscreen..
[19:25] <blockh34d> that looks lik eyou connected directly to the poly fuse in that pic
[19:25] <blockh34d> from what i understand
[19:25] <knob> blockh34d, yes... although,
[19:25] <knob> I think I am still getting protection
[19:26] <gordonDrogon> there's about 200mA "spare" on the 5v supply to be shared between the USB ports and GPIO.
[19:26] <blockh34d> knob if i had to guess i wouuld say yes i think so
[19:26] <blockh34d> i think about doing very similar with my pi's
[19:26] <blockh34d> i'm making helmet and i want smallest possible an dlightest possible
[19:26] <blockh34d> jacks and plugs add up
[19:26] <blockh34d> would be great if there was a pi kit for build your own
[19:27] <blockh34d> so no need to desolder
[19:27] * AndrevS (~andrevs@2001:980:55e0:1:2e44:fdff:fe65:84ee) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:27] * linuxstb (~linuxstb@unaffiliated/linuxstb) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[19:28] <knob> blockh34d heack yeah
[19:28] * BluRaf (~BluRaf@093105042217.dynamic.vectranet.pl) Quit (Quit: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻)
[19:29] * hubutm20 (~hubutm20@ Quit (Quit: Ulliendo)
[19:29] <blockh34d> you have a link to that sd adapter?
[19:29] <blockh34d> does it not stick out the back?
[19:30] <knob> blockh34d, fetching the eBay seller now... sec
[19:30] <blockh34d> very much want a sdcard setup that would fit in the footprint of the board
[19:30] <blockh34d> hey thanks
[19:30] <knob> As to sticking out, it is not perfectly flush. There is about 1.0 mm that sticks out... yet I think I can sandpaper it down
[19:30] <clever> blockh34d: there are micro sd adapters that do that
[19:30] <blockh34d> yah it sounds like it, i didnt know
[19:30] * Kaboon (~Kaboon@524A76E8.cm-4-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:31] <blockh34d> the only micro adapters i'd found so far all still have the sdcard footprint
[19:31] * nx5_off (~nap@unaffiliated/nx5off/x-000000001) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[19:31] <blockh34d> clever: do you know how someone could overlay an image over raspistill/cam's preview?
[19:32] <blockh34d> like a one bit stencil png or something to just put some sort of UI over the preview, and ideally change it often
[19:32] <clever> blockh34d: dispmanx can overlay ontop of anything
[19:32] <knob> blockh34d, this was my seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/H10-Low-profile-Micro-SD-TF-to-SD-Card-Adapter-for-Raspberry-Pi-/301107578249?pt=US_Memory_Card_Readers_Adapters&hash=item461b690589
[19:32] <blockh34d> yah i figure theres got to be a way but it seems like the preview window is on top of all else
[19:32] <blockh34d> thanks knob appreciate that
[19:32] <clever> blockh34d: dispmanx has a layer control to set what is ontop of what
[19:32] <knob> blockh34d, or imagemagick
[19:32] <clever> you just need to create your own layer that is above the preview
[19:32] <knob> 10-4 mate... hope it helps!
[19:33] <knob> dispmanx... checking that clever!
[19:33] <blockh34d> yah neat i'm going to have to look into that
[19:33] <blockh34d> i think maybe that'd be a good project for me or anyone, make a general utility to easily put an image over the picam preview
[19:33] <blockh34d> and maybe make it so it can stream that image from stdin/out of another app
[19:34] <knob> blockh34d, ahh... over the raspistill's PREVIEW... didn't get that. Not sure...
[19:34] <blockh34d> yah the preview is special sauce
[19:34] <blockh34d> but i think clever's onto something with dispmanx layer control
[19:34] <blockh34d> thats some funky jitsu i haven't figured out yet though
[19:34] <knob> Yeah... maybe you can check out the RaspiCam app for Android. The developer is very friendly... maybe he can help... or the code is open?
[19:34] <clever> blockh34d: http://www.adafruit.com/products/1569 here is one style
[19:35] <clever> blockh34d: half side SD card with a micro slot
[19:35] <blockh34d> oh perfect, adafruit ftw
[19:35] <blockh34d> my fav hobby diy electro supply
[19:35] * Kaboon (~Kaboon@524A76E8.cm-4-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:35] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@207-170-205-178.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:35] <blockh34d> yah that ebay link is just the stuff too
[19:35] * hephaestus_rg (~hephaestu@75-165-127-238.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:35] <blockh34d> great thanks a lot thats perfect
[19:36] <blockh34d> do they make top notch micro sd cards like class 10, just as a fast as full size etc?
[19:36] <clever> blockh34d: http://www.adafruit.com/products/966 the other one
[19:36] <blockh34d> awesome, these should be standard for pi i think
[19:37] <blockh34d> well maybe not
[19:37] <blockh34d> but i would have defaulted to them for my app
[19:37] <knob> Man... I have killed about 3 SD cards, two of them Class10. Not sure what's going on.
[19:38] <blockh34d> my default rpi logo'd sd card is holding up pretty good so far i guess
[19:38] <clever> ive killed the SD card i got from element14
[19:38] <blockh34d> not sure how i'd know though, i hear sd cards have no error checking built in
[19:38] <blockh34d> not even sure if its got load balancing
[19:38] <blockh34d> or write balancing or whatever its called
[19:38] <clever> ive got a new class 10 8gig i need to switch to
[19:38] <blockh34d> are bigger disks slower?
[19:38] <clever> the class is the speed
[19:38] <clever> class 10 is the highest speed
[19:38] <blockh34d> like if i found a 32 gig is it slower than the 8? if they're both class 10
[19:39] <blockh34d> great ok
[19:39] <clever> and i think in general, the larger sizes are sold as higher classes also
[19:39] <blockh34d> stands to reason, why invest in junk
[19:39] <blockh34d> OMG
[19:39] <blockh34d> i can not wait to 3d print
[19:39] <blockh34d> soooon
[19:39] <[SLB]> i'd get sandisk
[19:39] <blockh34d> yah they should know how to make a good SD card eh
[19:39] <blockh34d> if anyone
[19:39] <knob> blockh34d, oh yeah man... I would love a 3D printer. I should get started on a budget for that
[19:39] * adaro (~jkuperus@53518F8B.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:40] * FR^2 (~frquadrat@farsquare.de) Quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer)
[19:40] <blockh34d> i had to do all kinds of work to get my pennies stacked up high enough
[19:40] <knob> [SLB] man, one of the the Class10 I killed was a SanDisk, the other is a Kingston
[19:40] <[SLB]> :\
[19:40] <blockh34d> painted a 4 room house, fixed up the walls, redid two seperate bathrooms
[19:40] <knob> blockh34d, which one did you get?
[19:40] <blockh34d> all worth it
[19:40] <[SLB]> my kingston class10 is slower than a sony class4
[19:40] <blockh34d> prusa i3 8" with v slot extrusion
[19:40] <clever> the other issue i have
[19:40] <blockh34d> dont have it yet but very soon
[19:40] <clever> all of my SD cards are falling appart after use in the pi
[19:40] <knob> [SLB], really? Hmm... might go with the Devil next time... err, Sony
[19:41] <blockh34d> good to know [SLB] i'll remember that
[19:41] <clever> the corners are breaking off
[19:41] <blockh34d> i would never buy from the devil though
[19:41] <blockh34d> horrible service plan
[19:41] <[SLB]> yea it's the one i found with my camera, then i needed a larger one so i thought let's go for kingston but meh i was disappointed
[19:41] <blockh34d> that BMG music cd includes a free pirated virus was enough for me
[19:41] <blockh34d> it was just so offensive on so many simultaneous levels
[19:42] <[SLB]> i've bought class10 45mbs sandisk and they're awesome
[19:42] <blockh34d> they allowed a virus on their cd... they put it there on purpose... they say its legal to fight piracy... they pirated the actual code
[19:42] <blockh34d> rage overload
[19:42] <[SLB]> bad stuff :\
[19:42] <blockh34d> sony can pretty much go jump in a wood chipper for all i care
[19:42] <blockh34d> CYA
[19:43] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:43] <blockh34d> sorry not ff
[19:43] <blockh34d> how do you turn that light off on the picam?
[19:43] <blockh34d> some sort of config.txt option right?
[19:43] <blockh34d> is there something like that for the power/status lights on the pi itself?
[19:44] <blockh34d> stealth mode
[19:44] <knob> blockh34d, that is a good question.
[19:44] <knob> I would like to know myself
[19:44] <blockh34d> oh well i was hoping you knew
[19:44] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:44] <blockh34d> i'll go dig it up i found it once a month ago
[19:44] <[SLB]> yes there's a setting there
[19:44] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:44] <[SLB]> moment
[19:44] <blockh34d> oh awesome thanks
[19:44] <knob> [SLB] that would be super!
[19:44] <blockh34d> i wouldnt know spit if it wasnt for IRC
[19:44] <blockh34d> i would be so uninformed
[19:44] <[SLB]> disable_camera_led=1
[19:45] <blockh34d> nice, almost could have guessed that one
[19:45] <[SLB]> eheh
[19:45] <blockh34d> think theres anything like that for PI itself, not hte camera?
[19:45] <blockh34d> disable_led=1 maybe?
[19:45] <knob> I am sorry, more n00b question: where is the config.txt located?
[19:45] <blockh34d> gonna try it out
[19:45] <clever> the main power led is wired directly to the power rail
[19:45] <blockh34d> /boot maybe?
[19:46] <blockh34d> i think its /boot/config.txt
[19:46] <[SLB]> for the powere led nop, but you can disable the sdcard led
[19:46] <clever> it cant be shut off
[19:46] <blockh34d> oh cool whats that option? still in config.txt?
[19:46] <knob> Thanks guys... =)
[19:46] <clever> blockh34d: under /sys
[19:46] <[SLB]> ^
[19:46] <blockh34d> ohhh thats right
[19:46] <clever> blockh34d: i believe its a standard led source in the kernel
[19:46] <blockh34d> oh i see i thought you were saying config.txt was in sys
[19:46] <blockh34d> i can not remember
[19:47] <blockh34d> so i would need to rebuild kernel?
[19:47] <blockh34d> or delete a file?
[19:47] <[SLB]> /sys/class/leds/led0/trigger
[19:47] <clever> ramboot ~ # cat /sys/class/leds/phy0-led/trigger
[19:47] <clever> none AC-online BAT0-charging-or-full BAT0-charging BAT0-full BAT0-charging-blink-full-solid rfkill0 phy0rx phy0tx phy0assoc phy0radio [phy0tpt] rfkill1
[19:47] <[SLB]> :o your path is different
[19:47] <blockh34d> oh ok thanks lemme take a closer look at that, sounds perfect ahnks
[19:47] <clever> blockh34d: in my laptop, i have a single led, and its currently set to trigger off of phy0 tpt (network traffic)
[19:47] <clever> [SLB]: laptop vs pi, it should be in the same general area
[19:47] <[SLB]> ah okie
[19:47] * EastLight (n@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:48] <blockh34d> i wonder how much that helps power usage
[19:48] <clever> ramboot ~ # echo none > /sys/class/leds/phy0-led/trigger
[19:48] <[SLB]> yea i had it on an old acer laptop now that i remember
[19:48] <clever> the trigger is now set to none, it no longer blinks
[19:48] <clever> its just solid on
[19:48] <[SLB]> since last time i checked, i see now a lot of new triggers
[19:48] <[SLB]> none [mmc0] timer oneshot heartbeat backlight gpio cpu0 default-on rfkill0 phy0rx phy0tx phy0assoc phy0radio
[19:49] <clever> in theory, a driver could be made to turn ANY other gpio pin into an led output
[19:49] <clever> and then you could wire every one of those to its own led
[19:49] <clever> and make it blink like mad :P
[19:49] <blockh34d> if you had to wear a number cruncher around, what would it be, odroid u2? anyone?
[19:50] <blockh34d> maybe it would have no direct output, or maybe it would route its display to the rpis somehow
[19:51] <blockh34d> just needs to process images fast
[19:52] <blockh34d> i would love to figure out how to remotely set the display buffer on a rpi
[19:52] <clever> why do you need to set the display buffer?
[19:52] <blockh34d> with the absolute lowest possible latency
[19:52] <blockh34d> so i coul dhave number cruncher chew on images and then send output to pi for display per eye
[19:52] * Kaboon (~Kaboon@524A76E8.cm-4-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:52] <blockh34d> one pi per eye
[19:53] <clever> ah
[19:53] <blockh34d> also the pi's run picams and maybe a usb cam to handle eye tracking
[19:53] <clever> nothing stops you from using dispmanx or framebuffer over ssh
[19:53] <blockh34d> the picams run in way over-resolution and i'm hoping to make it where if i look in a spot and hit the zoom, it can zoom way in
[19:53] <blockh34d> ignorance, ignorance stops me dead in my tracks
[19:53] <blockh34d> but i'm working on it
[19:54] <blockh34d> yes there will be a little network setup for the three devices
[19:54] <blockh34d> i think maybe odroid will have extra usb lan adapter and it will basically be the hub
[19:54] * Kaboon (~Kaboon@524A76E8.cm-4-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:55] <blockh34d> but even at lores 320x240 display output, its pretty usable
[19:55] <blockh34d> i wish i could figure out a better fish eye lens though. I tried putting my doors peep hole up to the camera, that almost works
[19:56] <blockh34d> i think about maybe having six cameras in a ring and doing a realtime google street view sort of thing
[19:56] <blockh34d> but that seems like a seperate or later project
[19:56] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:57] <blockh34d> i think before that i will try to hack a kinect onto it
[19:57] <blockh34d> thermal is just too expensive but 3d depth mapping is pretty doable and also pretty cool
[19:58] <blockh34d> if its all slapped together cool enough i think i could get a pretty health kickstarter going from the prototype, maybe that'll buy me lots of FLIRs
[19:58] * caral (~caral@p5DC7E752.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:59] * utack (~utack@mnch-d9bde9f3.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:01] * Armand (~martin@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:02] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-112-16.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[20:03] <clever> 1977614336 bytes (2.0 GB) copied, 541.16 s, 3.7 MB/s
[20:03] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit ()
[20:03] <clever> the old SD card, class 2 i think, was this fast
[20:03] <blockh34d> whats the new one?
[20:04] * taza (~zap@unaffiliated/taza) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] <clever> an 8gig class 10
[20:04] <blockh34d> bummer
[20:04] <blockh34d> who made them? new/old
[20:04] * NIN101 (~core@n900.quitesimple.org) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:05] <clever> old one is sandisk
[20:05] <clever> new one, nexttech i think
[20:05] <blockh34d> settles it, sandisk from now on for me
[20:05] * kirin` (telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-uigakdlgmtfnqnlz) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:07] * D4CX (~znc@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:07] * millerii (~millerii@e218.ip3.netikka.fi) Quit (Quit: IRC for Sailfish 0.4)
[20:08] * GhettoGroceryBag (~GGB_@unaffiliated/ghettogrocerybag) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:09] <clever> 795353600 bytes (795 MB) copied, 886.468 s, 897 kB/s
[20:09] <clever> blockh34d: going pretty darn slow...
[20:09] <clever> but its write, not read
[20:09] <clever> write is always slower
[20:09] <blockh34d> way slower
[20:09] <blockh34d> but whatever
[20:09] <blockh34d> read was already fast enough with junk cards
[20:10] <blockh34d> i would want a nice card especially for fast writes
[20:10] <blockh34d> faster anyways
[20:11] * cognocev (~cognocev@c-178-73-201-47.anonymous.at.anonine.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:12] * cognocev (~cognocev@c-188-126-69-85.anonymous.at.anonine.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:14] * knob (~knob@ Quit ()
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[20:23] * kirin` (telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yhwvefbuwgdjsjak) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:24] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
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[20:26] * ryanteck (~ryan@fsf/member/Ryanteck) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[20:26] * Viper-7 (~viper7@ppp121-44-146-102.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:29] * lvispy (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[20:29] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@APuteaux-654-1-192-159.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[20:30] * lvispy_ (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[20:30] * lvispy (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:32] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:32] * ring0 (ring0@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-sjdgvxxavjxsmoil) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:32] * santoscrew (~bunk@178-85-227-153.dynamic.upc.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:33] * Raynerd (~pi@host86-166-184-103.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:34] <clever> 1977614336 bytes (2.0 GB) copied, 2194.42 s, 901 kB/s
[20:34] <Raynerd> Can anyone tell me how to unzip a file ?
[20:34] <clever> blockh34d: all done
[20:34] <clever> Raynerd: run unzip on it
[20:34] <Raynerd> on raspo
[20:34] <Raynerd> raspi*
[20:34] <clever> its still the unzip command
[20:35] * lvispy (~luiz@iewlan199.eco.unicamp.br) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:35] <malfunct> what kind of archive is it?
[20:35] <malfunct> an actual zip, or a gz?
[20:36] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:36] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:38] <Raynerd> zip
[20:38] <malfunct> ahh, yeah, then look up the unzip command
[20:38] <shiftplusone> unzip file.zip
[20:38] <shiftplusone> (who would've guessed)
[20:39] <Raynerd> thanks for the helpful comment
[20:39] <Raynerd> End-of-central-directory signature not found. Either this file is not
[20:39] <Raynerd> a zipfile, or it constitutes one disk of a multi-part archive.
[20:39] <Raynerd> I always get this...I have never successfully unzipped in linux so must be doing something wront
[20:39] <Raynerd> wrong
[20:39] <shiftplusone> What's the zip file?
[20:40] <Raynerd> I`ve tried it on a number this is called menu_key.7z
[20:40] <shiftplusone> that's not a zip file
[20:40] <shiftplusone> 7z is not zip
[20:40] <[Saint]> ...that's not a zip
[20:40] <Raynerd> :-S
[20:40] <[Saint]> zip is .zip, unsurprisingly.
[20:40] <Raynerd> It opens in zip on windows
[20:41] <shiftplusone> 'opens in zip' ?
[20:41] <Raynerd> winzip
[20:41] <shiftplusone> means winzip supports z7
[20:41] <shiftplusone> but it doesn't make 7z zip.
[20:42] * ponA (Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-148-191.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:42] <Raynerd> winRar actually, sorry
[20:42] <shiftplusone> same applies
[20:42] <shiftplusone> now if you'll excuse me... I deleted /dev and need to reboot >.>
[20:43] <[Saint]> Raynerd: you want the p7zip-full package
[20:43] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:44] <Raynerd> yes, downloading now
[20:44] <[Saint]> and then ask man p7zip what to do.
[20:46] * mlariv (~mlariv@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:46] <shiftplusone> and back
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[20:49] * Kane (~Kane@ADijon-257-1-28-235.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:49] <shiftplusone> Raynerd, got it sorted?
[20:53] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:53] <blockh34d> 7zip
[20:53] * tak30 (~tak30@243.Red-79-158-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:53] <blockh34d> sorry up the buffer a page
[20:53] <blockh34d> raynerd you want 7zip
[20:53] <[Saint]> been there, sone that.
[20:54] <[Saint]> *done, even.
[20:54] <blockh34d> ah yes, you got the proper package name even, i can never remember
[20:55] <[Saint]> http://i.imgur.com/pRo0XHF.gif
[20:55] <[Saint]> scumbag pigeon
[20:56] * ppq (~ppq@unaffiliated/ppq) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <shiftplusone> quality footage from russian news it seems
[20:56] <blockh34d> does feh play animated gifs?
[20:56] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <davor> I want to use my RPi to control my music centre. I have more or less everything figured out, except the screen. I want to be able to use a remote to navigate a small mpd client interface on a small screen, maybe a ~3" LCD. what kind of screen would you recommend? I take it those I2C screens on ebay are a bit difficult to configure for this
[20:57] <davor> or am I wrong?
[20:57] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:57] <davor> plus, is there an interface that would fit on such a low-res/small screen?
[20:57] <blockh34d> i'm using 2 of the adafruit 2.5" lcd's now
[20:58] <blockh34d> they're very nice, but if you don't mind stepping up size to about 4" across you can get their hidef display and its much nicer i think
[20:58] * azerus (~badass@unaffiliated/badass) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:58] <blockh34d> maybe has a touchscreen too already? i know they have one at least
[20:58] <blockh34d> btw i have an app i wrote for controlling omxplayer, it works through putty/ssh fine
[20:58] <davor> any equivalents on ebay? adafruit has insane shipping rates to croatia
[20:58] <blockh34d> there is probably an ssh client for your phone so that might already work for you
[20:59] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:59] <davor> yeah that's what I'm currently using, but having a screen+remote would be much easier
[20:59] * azerus (~badass@unaffiliated/badass) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <blockh34d> hmm not sure maybe element14 is better?
[20:59] <davor> nah, still pretty awful
[20:59] * lvispy (~luiz@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <davor> so it's not a pain to configure?
[20:59] <blockh34d> those are the only ones i know of off hand or would deal with
[20:59] * lvispy (~luiz@ Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[20:59] <blockh34d> no not at all
[20:59] <blockh34d> rca input
[20:59] <davor> ahhh
[20:59] <davor> thought you meant i2c
[21:00] <davor> nice
[21:00] <blockh34d> nono
[21:00] <blockh34d> they have an hdmi one too
[21:00] <davor> woah
[21:00] <blockh34d> but must a little larger
[21:00] <blockh34d> 4" across
[21:00] <blockh34d> 800x480 then i think, or maybe lil more
[21:00] <blockh34d> plenty for a remote
[21:00] <blockh34d> you could make the 2.5" work i bet, but its a little dinky for that i think, too small
[21:00] * Demon_Jester (~Demon_Jes@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:01] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:01] <blockh34d> maybe you could use a car backup camera display
[21:01] <blockh34d> theres many of those available and they're basically the same thing but in a housing
[21:01] <davor> yeah found exactly that one
[21:01] <blockh34d> you should i think check maybe russian supplies for that sort of stuff
[21:01] <davor> it's a tad pricey for me though, 65 bucks
[21:02] <blockh34d> russian's love their car cams
[21:02] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Excess Flood)
[21:02] <davor> oh, ncie
[21:02] <davor> *nice
[21:02] <davor> I'll probably just scour ebay though
[21:02] <shiftplusone> not so much love as are required to have them for insurance purposes.
[21:02] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@APuteaux-654-1-184-240.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:02] <blockh34d> but i don't know what any of those supply sources would be, i just imagine they exist
[21:02] <blockh34d> probably still china
[21:02] <blockh34d> shiftplusone: ah i see
[21:02] <blockh34d> does seem like everyones got em eh
[21:03] <blockh34d> funny videos
[21:03] <blockh34d> how did that pidgeon get a little hat?
[21:03] <blockh34d> is that why its a scumbag pidgeon?
[21:03] <davor> 4.3" 40-pin TFT Display - 480x272 with Touchscreen for 30 bucks. quite nice, but 40-pin heh
[21:03] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-114-35.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:03] <davor> 5" one, 800x480, same deal, 40 pins, 30 bucks
[21:03] <blockh34d> anyone know how to bring up bookmarks list in luakit?
[21:04] <blockh34d> they have a control board for 30 bucks too i think
[21:04] <blockh34d> adafruit does that is
[21:04] <davor> that sounds like quite a deal, but it'd probably come out somewhat expensive to get 40-pins out to rca
[21:04] <davor> could maybe make my own board if I knew what controllers to use etc
[21:04] <davor> yeah indeed
[21:04] <blockh34d> if i can find the book mark i think its about 6$ from dealtime maybe? some site
[21:04] * fugutive221 (~fugutive2@ Quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
[21:04] <davor> RA8875, hmm
[21:05] <blockh34d> but adafruit has one they stock i'd recommend over any else
[21:05] <blockh34d> whats the shipping like to croatia?
[21:05] <davor> that gets me spi though
[21:05] <davor> one moment, I'll check the exact rates
[21:05] * Gadgetoid (~Gadgetoid@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:05] <blockh34d> just curious
[21:05] <blockh34d> trhanks
[21:06] <davor> no problem, I'm curious too, as I have forgotten the rates since the last time I checked
[21:07] <blockh34d> luakit luakit://bookmarks
[21:07] <blockh34d> thats how to bring up booksmarks in luakit, in case anyone was wondering
[21:07] <blockh34d> http://www.dx.com/p/bonatech-universal-point-screen-generic-driver-board-hd-lvds-driver-board-green-303577#.U0L4enaQwgJ
[21:08] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@APuteaux-654-1-184-240.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[21:08] <blockh34d> not sure if that would work for a display like that 40 pin or not
[21:08] <blockh34d> i would really go with the adafruit one first its known-good
[21:08] * Benguin (~Ben@adsl-83-100-188-68.karoo.KCOM.COM) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:08] <blockh34d> that link is more for a display i found for an old laptop, thinking aobut wiring up
[21:11] <blockh34d> http://www.dx.com/p/2-channel-video-input-7-tft-lcd-display-monitor-module-ntsc-pal-201033#.U0L4O3aQwgI
[21:11] * azerus (~badass@unaffiliated/badass) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:11] <blockh34d> thats getting kinda big though
[21:11] <davor> blockh34d, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12582342/adafruit_shipping.png
[21:11] <davor> check them mad shipping rates
[21:11] * ring0 (ring0@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-blndzjaehlzuejnb) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:12] <shiftplusone> lol
[21:12] * azerus (~badass@unaffiliated/badass) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:12] <davor> I love the "recommended" options
[21:12] <davor> 100 bucks
[21:12] <blockh34d> youch
[21:12] <blockh34d> thats pretty brutal
[21:13] <blockh34d> but $15 bucks doesnt sound totally out of the question
[21:13] <blockh34d> for the usps
[21:13] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:13] <blockh34d> insured too
[21:13] <davor> still a tad much for me all in all
[21:13] <blockh34d> i bet
[21:13] <blockh34d> me too
[21:14] <blockh34d> dealextreme link maybe better shipping
[21:14] <davor> as I believe I can get all of this much cheaper
[21:14] <davor> I think I'll go with ebay, my friend had some issues with dx
[21:14] <blockh34d> oh? i have not tried them yet
[21:14] <davor> I've never had problems with ebay
[21:14] <blockh34d> what problems?
[21:14] <davor> wouldn't get the package
[21:14] <davor> the seller wouldn't even ship it
[21:14] <blockh34d> thats a pretty big problem
[21:14] <davor> he sent some tickets, but never got a reply
[21:14] <davor> yeah
[21:14] <blockh34d> did he have to reverse the charge or soemthing?
[21:15] * Benguin (~Ben@adsl-83-100-188-68.karoo.KCOM.COM) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:15] <blockh34d> hope he got his money back, what a rip
[21:15] * notori0us (~irc@osuosc/notori0us) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:16] <davor> yep. I don't know what happened in the end
[21:16] <blockh34d> well i gotta go hunt down some coffee
[21:16] <davor> cya, thanks for the help and enjoy your coffee :)
[21:16] <blockh34d> i'll be back in a bit
[21:16] * azerus (~badass@unaffiliated/badass) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:16] <blockh34d> good luck your project sounds fun
[21:16] <MProg> coffee ?
[21:16] <MProg> coffee ?
[21:16] <MProg> where ?
[21:17] <blockh34d> gotta hunt far and wide for it here
[21:17] * picca (~picca@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] * MProg away : making coffee
[21:17] <ppq> coffee? who was coffee?
[21:17] <blockh34d> in the ghetto... there is no coffee
[21:17] <blockh34d> wine at every corner, no coffee anywhere
[21:17] * D4CX (~znc@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:17] <MProg> :o :o
[21:17] <MProg> how do you survive ?
[21:18] <shiftplusone> Hurray for coffee and the people who like the taste and smell of cigarette butts =D
[21:18] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:18] <blockh34d> i buy in bulk, have a 6ft privacy fence and a 4x4
[21:18] <davor> thanks blockh34d !
[21:18] <blockh34d> np cyall
[21:18] <shiftplusone> (coffee sucks)
[21:18] <MProg> lol
[21:19] <MProg> :o !!!
[21:19] <MProg> !kick shiftplusone
[21:19] <MProg> :p
[21:19] <davor> is there a way to use SPI/I2C LCDs as regular screens?
[21:19] <shiftplusone> That's right... I went there.
[21:19] <davor> that is to have x output to them
[21:19] <shiftplusone> davor, some screens have drivers for them which allow it
[21:19] <shiftplusone> they show up as framebuffer devices and X can cope with that.
[21:20] * D4CX (~znc@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:20] <davor> ah, nice. drivers as in hw?
[21:20] <davor> do you know of any such drivers or how to find them?
[21:20] <MProg> software
[21:20] <shiftplusone> as in sw
[21:20] <davor> ah
[21:20] * santoscrew (~bunk@d107066.upc-d.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:20] <pksato> slow... even for console use.
[21:20] * D4CX (~znc@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:20] <davor> yeah? aw man.
[21:21] * eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[21:21] <shiftplusone> more than good enough to display a menu
[21:21] * utack (~utack@mnch-d9bde9f3.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[21:21] <MProg> the one from adafruit looks pretty fast
[21:21] <davor> ah, nice. is there a way to find out which one would work and which one would not?
[21:21] <MProg> ~20 fps I think
[21:21] <davor> oh that's excellent
[21:21] <shiftplusone> google should help
[21:22] * GhettoGroceryBag (~GGB_@unaffiliated/ghettogrocerybag) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:23] <pksato> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPbRedvg0E
[21:23] <MProg> https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-pitft-28-inch-resistive-touchscreen-display-raspberry-pi/overview
[21:24] <davor> just found a 4.3" rearview LCD for 20 USD on ebay
[21:24] <davor> free shipping
[21:25] <davor> oh hey thanks! good links
[21:25] * ioudas (~gregc2@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:25] <davor> and a 7" one for 38 USD
[21:26] <pksato> some day, DSI display come out.
[21:26] <ioudas> any raspbian users here ? I cant seem to update via apt-get update. just get a connection refused.... readded apt key... tried manual ip's.... switched up sources list.... any advice would be helpful
[21:26] <davor> but that's a bit of an overkill for this I think. depends on the resolution of the 4.3" one. gotta make sure a UI would fit
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[21:26] <davor> hm, nope, pretty low-res
[21:26] <davor> oh man I'd love a DSI display pksato...
[21:27] * Benguin (~Ben@adsl-83-100-188-68.karoo.KCOM.COM) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[21:28] <blockh34d> can the rpi remap a larger virtual screen onto a smaller output? i kind of think it can davor
[21:28] <Raynerd> :-( I let my domain expire and someone has snagged it :-(
[21:28] <blockh34d> like you could have the software think its at 800x600 even if it displays on 320x240? i'm really not sure but i kind of remember doing that
[21:28] <davor> yeah I think so
[21:28] * Benguin (~Ben@adsl-83-100-188-68.karoo.KCOM.COM) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:28] <davor> I mean should be doable somehow by x
[21:29] <blockh34d> i think the image on 2.5" lcd w/ RCA is amazingly good
[21:29] <davor> I'd really like an 800x480 screen though
[21:29] <blockh34d> i didnt expect it to be so readable
[21:29] <blockh34d> adafruit has it in 4"
[21:29] <davor> problem is I'd like to have a song list
[21:29] <blockh34d> or maybe 5"
[21:29] <davor> yeah but 40-pin
[21:29] <davor> no driver
[21:29] <blockh34d> my app has playlists btw
[21:29] <davor> and they seem a lot more expensive with a driver
[21:29] <blockh34d> are you running raspbian?
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[21:30] <tonsofpcs> so has anyone designed a beowulf cluster board for the compute module yet?
[21:30] <blockh34d> davor: if you'd like to give it a try its 'scamp' in pi store, all free
[21:30] <blockh34d> i saw a 21 unit pi cluster on youtube
[21:30] <davor> nope, running arch
[21:30] <blockh34d> but it was just blinking some leds
[21:31] * Benguin (~Ben@adsl-83-100-188-68.karoo.KCOM.COM) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[21:31] <blockh34d> ah i dunno if arch even has pistore or if it runs the same
[21:31] <blockh34d> n/m
[21:31] <davor> it has the AUR :p
[21:31] <blockh34d> i need to setup an arch box here and try that some day
[21:31] <davor> which is brilliant
[21:31] <davor> I love arch
[21:31] <blockh34d> AUR?
[21:31] <blockh34d> like apt-get?
[21:32] <shiftplusone> blockh34d, not like apt-get https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_User_Repository
[21:32] <davor> arch user repository :)
[21:32] <davor> ^^ that
[21:32] <davor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181127898298 this seems too good to be true
[21:32] <blockh34d> oh cool
[21:32] <blockh34d> thanks
[21:32] <shiftplusone> If something is not in the repos, you can probably compile it from AUR.
[21:33] <davor> ditto
[21:33] <davor> sometimes I think there isn't a thing that isn't in AUR
[21:33] <shiftplusone> unfortunately, most users don't bother adding ARM support, so you need to edit the pkgbuild to enable it.
[21:34] <davor> "40-pin" usually means LVDS right?
[21:34] <blockh34d> davor i had almost exactly that but i paid 20 bucks more for it
[21:34] <blockh34d> worked great, awesome display
[21:34] <blockh34d> until i broke it
[21:34] <davor> I might have found my candidate then :)
[21:34] <davor> haha
[21:34] <blockh34d> not its fault though
[21:34] <Tachyon`> hrm, compute board, very interesting
[21:35] <blockh34d> does that have hdmi out though?
[21:35] <blockh34d> it might be rca/vga, not exactly ideal for rpi
[21:35] <blockh34d> yah thats vga/rca... a very fun display but you will want that with an hdmi input i think for rpi
[21:36] * blockh34d is now known as blockh34d-out
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[21:36] <davor> pi has rca though
[21:36] <davor> why not ideal?
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[21:37] <lerc> hey. all. I'm looking for alpha testers for a user interface via network. I don't have a PI but I'd like to know if it works on it.
[21:37] <lerc> It's at https://github.com/Lerc/notanos
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[21:41] <blockh34d-out> rca resolution less than the full display of that lcd
[21:42] <davor> ah, I see
[21:42] <blockh34d-out> hdmi can address each pixel individually
[21:42] <blockh34d-out> that board is hard to find with hdmi input though, i don't know why
[21:43] <davor> seems I'll have to go above 40 bucks total if I want 800x480
[21:43] * divine (~divine@24-176-230-194.static.snlo.ca.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:44] <blockh34d-out> it looks like it
[21:44] <blockh34d-out> maybe you can get model number from adafruit 800x480 w/ hdmi
[21:44] * phelix (~phelix@24-119-144-139.cpe.cableone.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:44] <blockh34d-out> search elsewhere for it maybe
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[21:54] <tbx1024> hi, i was compiling the raspberry pi Linux kernel from Github, but it failed at Realtek drivers with the following error: "Must be LITTLE/BIG endian Host", and i didn't have this error last time i tried to compile
[21:54] * blockh34d-out is now known as blockh34d
[21:55] <tbx1024> i have no idea what the problem is - here's the make log: https://paste.debian.net/92268
[21:55] <shiftplusone> If you pastebin your .config, I could try.
[21:56] <shiftplusone> actually, nvrm, I don't have a cross-compiler set up yet.
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[21:56] <tbx1024> https://paste.debian.net/92272
[21:57] <davor> hm, good idea blockh34d
[21:57] <tbx1024> ok, thanks anyway :)
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[21:58] <tbx1024> i'm using tools/arm-bcm2708/arm-bcm2708hardfp-linux-gnueabi/bin/bcm2708hardfp-
[21:58] <tbx1024> from Github
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[22:02] <davor> hey I just remembered
[22:02] <davor> I have an old 15" I'm not using
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[22:07] <tbx1024> is it better to use the 3.10 branch or the 3.6 stable one?
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[22:11] <ShorTie> tbx1024, most likely doesn't matter
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[22:12] <tbx1024> hm. i was just wondering if the build would also fail for 3.6
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[22:12] <ShorTie> what build ??
[22:12] <tbx1024> well i was trying to crosscompile the 3.10 kernel
[22:13] <tbx1024> but it fails at some Realtek drivers with a strange error message
[22:13] <tbx1024> " error: #error "Must be LITTLE/BIG Endian Host" "
[22:13] <ShorTie> oh, crosscompile
[22:14] <ShorTie> i just compile on the pi
[22:14] <tbx1024> the strange thing is that i did it with no problems a few days earlier
[22:14] * ShorTie has pateniece
[22:14] <tbx1024> then i updated the source from github, and i can't compile it anymore
[22:14] <tbx1024> :/
[22:15] <ShorTie> might try dumping it, and start with a fresh pull instead of updating
[22:16] <ShorTie> exspecialli if going from 3.6 to 3.10
[22:16] <tbx1024> well by "updating" i meant rm the folder and pull a fresh source
[22:16] <tbx1024> sorry
[22:16] <tbx1024> so it's a clean source :/
[22:16] * kalz (~kalz@2602:fff6:f:1::d979:58e8) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] <ShorTie> oh, ya i sortta do that
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[22:17] <ShorTie> i normally just rename instead of rm
[22:17] <ShorTie> rm is to perminate, imho
[22:18] <tbx1024> well i should have kept my working source
[22:18] <tbx1024> true ._.
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[22:18] <tbx1024> so that's why i'm wondering if 3.6 will be working
[22:19] <ShorTie> just old kernel compiles, i normally just rename to blaablaa.old
[22:19] <ShorTie> just like*
[22:19] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-68-4.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] <tbx1024> i'll make sure i keep my working sources next time :)
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[22:20] <ShorTie> if your worried about space, just cruss into it and do a 'make clean'
[22:21] <tbx1024> that is a nice piece of advice, thanks
[22:21] <ShorTie> but keep the config's, so don't do a 'make dist-clean'
[22:21] <tbx1024> hmm actually no code change on github, so i'm probably doing something wrong D:
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[22:22] <ShorTie> 'LITTLE/BIG Endian' is more like how they handle data
[22:23] <ShorTie> normally defined is a config type thing
[22:23] <ShorTie> bit ordering or sumfin like that
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[22:27] <tbx1024> hm
[22:27] <tbx1024> i thought it was something related to architecture
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[22:28] <tbx1024> well i just cleaned my build and reran the build with another crosscompiler argument, might work
[22:29] <ioudas> any raspbian users here ? I cant seem to update via apt-get update. just get a connection refused.... readded apt key... tried manual ip's.... switched up sources list.... any advice would be helpful
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[22:30] <shiftplusone> can you ping it?
[22:30] <shiftplusone> can you access the repo through the browser?
[22:31] <tbx1024> works fine for me
[22:31] <tbx1024> check your connectivity? firewall?
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[22:35] * shiftplusone checks ioudas' pulse.
[22:35] <tbx1024> *no pulse*
[22:35] <shiftplusone> He's dead, Jim.
[22:36] * meiskam (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:36] <rikkib> Not life as we know it, Jim.
[22:37] <rikkib> Bit like the DS18B20 that I can't get working on my MC9S08 devel board.
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[22:40] <blockh34d> is there glow in the dark filament?
[22:40] <blockh34d> sorry wrong chan
[22:40] <ffledgling> What libraries are typically used to control the GPIO pins on the pi? I'm using WiringPi atm, but I'm wondering if there's something for python as well?
[22:40] <malfunct> blockh34d, the answer is yes to your question though
[22:40] <AbbyTheRat> I thought WiringPi was for python
[22:40] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: for reminding me of it, you now need to deal with having http://www.youtube.com/v/FCARADb9asE stuck in your head just as I do
[22:41] <malfunct> yeah I thought wiring was for python as well
[22:41] <[Saint]> (warning: 80s)
[22:41] <blockh34d> malfunct: awesome thanks :)
[22:41] <malfunct> blockh34d, no idea how well it prints though
[22:41] <AbbyTheRat> what language are you using WiringPi for?
[22:41] <ffledgling> AbbyTheRat: Uhh, well the official wiringPi has C examples. the examples that ship with it are also in C.
[22:41] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, wiringpi is the norm for C. There are python bindings for it and other libs for python rpi.gpio or whatever the main one is called.
[22:41] <blockh34d> i have a statue of Jesus riding a velociraptor
[22:41] <shiftplusone> AbbyTheRat, wiringpi is pure C.
[22:41] <blockh34d> i would like to scan it in and print it, and glow in the dark sounds like the way to go
[22:41] <ffledgling> AbbyTheRat: I just compiled the basic led blink program in C, works flawlessly.
[22:41] <blockh34d> accuracy could be a little off, no biggy
[22:42] <AbbyTheRat> http://raspi.tv/2013/how-to-use-wiringpi2-for-python-on-the-raspberry-pi-in-raspbian random google search, top result
[22:42] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: Do you know something about the pin labeling on the Pi and the one used by wiringPi?
[22:42] * meiskam (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:42] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, what about it exactly?
[22:43] <blockh34d> i think i'm going to make the display housing for my headset like this person handled their 3.5" lcd's... http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:41751
[22:43] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: They're labeled pretty differently.
[22:43] <blockh34d> i figure i'll make it first in stacks of cardboard, then scan that in and digitize
[22:43] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, that they are.
[22:43] * Kane (~Kane@ADijon-257-1-28-235.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Night all o/)
[22:43] <ffledgling> wiringPi's 0 is like the 6th pin on the left set of pins.
[22:44] <ffledgling> I'm looking for a mapping b/w what goes where, the best I found was http://wiringpi.com/pins/special-pin-functions/
[22:45] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:45] * mdszy (~mdszy@unaffiliated/mdszy) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:45] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, between gpio readall, http://wiringpi.com/pins/ and http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals, you should be covered.
[22:45] <mdszy> is there a release date for the Compute Module?
[22:45] <tbx1024> blockh34d: http://wiringpi.com/pins/
[22:46] <tbx1024> this?
[22:46] <mdszy> I mean seriously, that thing looks like it would be the best ever for the project I'm working on right now.
[22:46] <blockh34d> ? i think you meant ffledgling ya?
[22:46] <tbx1024> blockh34d: yes sorry
[22:46] <blockh34d> i'm on something little different right now
[22:46] <tbx1024> ffledgling: http://wiringpi.com/pins/ this?
[22:46] <blockh34d> no worries thanks anyways :)
[22:46] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:47] <blockh34d> going to cut some cardboard
[22:47] <ffledgling> tbx1024: yes, thanks. shiftplusone just linked be to that and http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
[22:47] <shiftplusone> [Saint], nope... didn't get stuck in my head.
[22:47] <blockh34d> cant think of better way to prototype
[22:47] <blockh34d> maybe cut foam?
[22:47] <ffledgling> That almost clears things up
[22:48] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, what's left?
[22:48] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: well understanding what each of them does for one, but that'll take some reading.
[22:48] <ffledgling> What's confusing me is
[22:49] <ffledgling> It's mentioned that the RPi is a 3.3V device and that is the "high" voltage for it.
[22:49] <ffledgling> 0V being low.
[22:49] <shiftplusone> yup
[22:49] <ffledgling> But on the pin diagrams I see 5V pins as well.
[22:49] <shiftplusone> those aren't programmable
[22:49] <shiftplusone> those are (almost) straight from your power supply.
[22:49] <shiftplusone> (after the input protection)
[22:49] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: oh
[22:50] * jluisn (~quassel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:50] <ffledgling> So how do I hook the Pi up with a 5V logic system?
[22:50] <shiftplusone> depends
[22:50] <mdszy> ffledgling: logic level shifter
[22:50] <shiftplusone> if it's bidirectional or not
[22:50] <ffledgling> Where 5V is high and 0V is low (The way typical circuits are)
[22:50] <mdszy> ffledgling: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s419/res/97148f61-d9b9-476f-baa7-55bf7c0ad290/sn74lvc245a.pdf that might be the sort of thing you want
[22:50] <mdszy> that's what I'm using.
[22:50] <mdszy> If it's bidirectional, you can just use two of those.
[22:50] <tbx1024> hmm is it possible to measure a capacitive humidity sensor value without any additional ADCs from the Raspberry Pi?
[22:51] <ffledgling> mdszy: access denied.
[22:51] <mdszy> OH derp.
[22:51] <shiftplusone> tbx1024, depends on the sensor.
[22:51] <mdszy> ffledgling: one moment
[22:51] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: what does bidirectional mean?
[22:52] <tbx1024> it's a Honeywell one
[22:52] <mdszy> ffledgling: bidirectional means that one device is sending 5V outputs to a 3.3V input to the Pi, and the Pi is sending 3.3V outputs to a 5V input to the other device.
[22:52] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, does the signal go both ways or one. For example, uart is not bidirectional, as each line, rx and tx,only go one way.
[22:52] <shiftplusone> there's a clear input on one end and an output on the other end
[22:52] <davor> would this work if I have a Pi and a VGA screen? http://www.ebay.com/itm/221409076164
[22:52] <shiftplusone> whereas other devices may communicate back and forth on a single line.
[22:52] <mdszy> ugh, fucking firefox.
[22:53] <shiftplusone> mdszy, mind the language, please.
[22:53] * lupinedk (~lupine6@unaffiliated/lupinedk) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:53] <mdszy> Sorry.
[22:53] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, most 5v devices can take 3.3v logic as an input (check the datasheets for minimum 'high' voltage), but the pi cannot take a 5v as an input. For a unidirectional input, a simple voltage divider will do.
[22:54] <shiftplusone> np
[22:54] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: so if I have an IC that needs a 5V high, I can still give it a 3.3 and expect it to work?
[22:54] <mdszy> ffledgling: here's the device I was trying to show you http://www.ti.com/product/sn74lvc245a?qgpn=sn74lvc245a
[22:54] <tbx1024> with this humidity sensor, would it be possible to make a RCcircuit to read the capacitance? http://sensing.honeywell.com/product%20page?pr_id=54704
[22:54] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, usually, yes. Do you have a datasheet?
[22:54] <ffledgling> as long as I don't get the pi to take an 5V input on a GPIO pin, is that right?
[22:55] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: I know the IC number/model (keep in mind that I have no idea what I'm doing here)
[22:55] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, yes.
[22:55] <mdszy> tbx1024: why not use this one? I'm using it, it just outputs a straight voltage http://www.ti.com/product/sn74lvc245a?qgpn=sn74lvc245a
[22:55] <mdszy> derp
[22:55] <mdszy> not that link
[22:55] <mdszy> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HIH-5030-001/480-3294-1-ND/2061078 that's the link I meant, tbx1024
[22:55] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[22:55] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, what's the chip called?
[22:55] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: L293D
[22:56] <ffledgling> from what I've been told, I can use this to hook up a small motor with my Pi.
[22:56] * djuggler (~djuggler@doug.ws.utk.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:56] <ffledgling> (or 2 motors)
[22:56] <mdszy> ffledgling: oh goodness please don't try to drive motors through the GPIO pins.
[22:56] <ffledgling> mdszy: I'm not using the GPIO pins to "drive" them. Just to control speed/on/off.
[22:56] <ffledgling> That's why this IC I think
[22:57] <mdszy> Oh, okay. So they're not actually powering the motor?
[22:57] <ffledgling> I add a motor with a separate power source.
[22:57] <tbx1024> mdszy: well i would still need an ADC
[22:57] <ffledgling> Yes, from what I've heard.
[22:57] <mdszy> tbx1024: Well yeah, obviously, unless you get a digital Humidity sensor. Honeywell makes them, for $30 a piece.
[22:57] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, I haven't look at whether that chip is safe to use with the pi (should be, if you're powering it externally), but take a look at http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/l293d.pdf
[22:57] <shiftplusone> page 5
[22:57] <tbx1024> mdszy: $30 for an IC? D:
[22:57] <shiftplusone> V_IH
[22:57] <mdszy> tbx1024: yes.
[22:58] <mdszy> one second.
[22:58] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, V_IH shows that it's "high" at 2.3V-VCC
[22:58] <mdszy> tbx1024: http://sensing.honeywell.com/honeywell-sensing-humidicon-hih9000-series-product-sheet-009076-6-en.pdf those are what I'm talking about
[22:58] <tbx1024> hmm well i already have the capacitive one. was wondering if it was possible to use it
[22:58] <shiftplusone> and low from -0.3 to 1.5V
[22:58] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@207-170-205-178.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:58] <tbx1024> 30$ is waaaay out of my budget :/
[22:59] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: so b/w 2.3-7V is okay.
[22:59] <mdszy> so yeah, you're of course going to need an ADC. You can use something like an MCP3008, which Adafruit has a guide on how to use with a Pi.
[22:59] <rikkib> DHT22 or DHT11 for humidity
[22:59] <shiftplusone> and 3.3v is in that range. Keep in mind the pi is not guaranteed to actually give you 3.3v when high. There's a range there as well, but it should be above 2.3v in any case.
[23:00] <tbx1024> hmm ok
[23:00] <mdszy> what are you trying to do, tbx1024, if I may ask?
[23:00] <tbx1024> well just read humidity data from a sensor
[23:00] <tbx1024> i was thinking about making a weather station
[23:00] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: Does the actual voltage depend on the power source I'm using, or does it depend on how old/used the pi is?
[23:01] <mdszy> Ahh, neat!
[23:01] <tbx1024> i have an ADT7410 as temperature sensor on I2C
[23:01] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:01] * cndiv (~cndiv@wikimedia/cdeubner) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:01] <mdszy> I'm using those to create a sort of control system for controlling the conditions inside of a shipping container to be used for storing potatoes.
[23:01] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, more-so things like temperature and current load.
[23:01] <tbx1024> and i added an RTC too to keep the time with no connectivity
[23:01] <mdszy> Well, not the $30 ones, the other ones I linked.
[23:01] <tbx1024> mdszy: nice!
[23:01] <tbx1024> people are making great things here
[23:01] <tbx1024> :D
[23:01] <mdszy> I'm also using a simple little analog temperature sensor.
[23:02] <mdszy> I'm using an AVR MCU to do the brunt of the controlling, and the Pi will supply a web interface for the whole system.
[23:02] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: current load basically means the number of devices being power by the Pi? Mouse/Keyboard/other USB things?
[23:02] * sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[23:02] <tbx1024> well for temperature sensing the Analog Devices series are nice
[23:02] <ffledgling> s/power/powered/
[23:02] * jluisn (~quassel@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:02] <mdszy> I'm just currently trying to figure out how to get data from Raspi <--> the AVR
[23:02] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, i meant how much you're drawing from the GPIO pin in question, but don't worry too much about the specifics, I was only mentioning that there's a range.
[23:03] <mdszy> I almost wonder if SPI is the best option for this.
[23:03] <tbx1024> mdszy: i2c or spi
[23:03] <rikkib> GY-65 for temp and pressure
[23:03] <mdszy> tbx1024: yeah, I'm already using SPI.
[23:03] <mdszy> Well, attempting to implement it.
[23:03] * pizthewiz (~pizthewiz@c-98-210-111-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:03] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: okay. Any suggestions on where I can go from the Simple Blink LED example? I want to explore all the GPIO pins.
[23:03] <rikkib> GY-273 for compass
[23:03] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, but on the subject of current draw, don't pull more than 16mA from any one pin and make sure you don't draw more than 50mA total from the GPIO header.
[23:04] * jfrousval (~jfrousval@ARouen-651-1-336-73.w90-23.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: jfrousval se déconnecte)
[23:04] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: how do I make sure of something like that?
[23:04] <rikkib> GY-521 for G and Gyro
[23:04] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, check the datasheets to make sure the devices you attach don't draw more than that and when it comes to things like LEDs, use resistors to limit the current.
[23:05] <shiftplusone> ffledgling, do you prefer to stick to C or do you want to use Python?
[23:06] <ffledgling> shiftplusone: I'm actually better with python, but I don't really shy away from C either.
[23:06] <gordonDrogon> ffledgling, https://projects.drogon.net/raspberry-pi/gpio-examples/tux-crossing/
[23:06] <ffledgling> choice of language is not a major concern.
[23:06] <shiftplusone> check out the adafruit tutorials if you're okay with python.
[23:07] <shiftplusone> or use them for ideas and stick to wiringpi and C
[23:07] <shiftplusone> (I recommend C
[23:07] <gordonDrogon> me too :)
[23:07] <ffledgling> Why the recommendation for C?
[23:08] * tbx1024 (~tbialas@fer01-1-78-234-67-117.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:08] <shiftplusone> closer to the hardware
[23:08] <mdszy> C is really fast and nice and barebones, no extra overhead.
[23:08] <shiftplusone> afk
[23:08] <mdszy> better for doing low-level stuff.
[23:08] * nx5_off (~nap@unaffiliated/nx5off/x-000000001) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:08] <ffledgling> Also, is there an advisable resistance to use with LEDs? I'm currently using a 330Ohm resistor, but some tutorials use 270Ohm resistor?
[23:08] <Poison[BLX]> cleaner, more efficient, does exactly what you tell it to, how you tell it to, without little if any 'magical black box' layers between
[23:08] <Poison[BLX]> ^ = C
[23:08] <mdszy> ffledgling: I often use a 1kOhm. You know Ohm's law, right?
[23:09] * Darkwell (~Darkwell@h-169-105.a192.priv.bahnhof.se) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:09] <AbbyTheRat> C has been less confusing for me
[23:09] <ffledgling> mdszy, shiftplusone so basically the same C/Python differences as always, closer to metal, faster.
[23:09] * Slippern (slippern@server02.hjemmeserver.info) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:09] <mdszy> Yes.
[23:09] * Darkwell (~Darkwell@h-169-105.a192.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Changing host)
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[23:09] <ffledgling> mdszy: Current inversly proportional to resitance? yes.
[23:09] * basiaf (~basiaf@2001:41d0:2:300e::1) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:09] * MadeAllUp (~gen@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:09] <AbbyTheRat> meh I'll stick with python just to learn it x_x
[23:09] <ffledgling> or I = V/R (I think ... ?)
[23:10] <mdszy> Yeah. So you can use Ohm's law to calculate what resistor is best. If you have a 3v3 logic pin and you want it under say, 10mA you'd do 10mA = 3.3V/R
[23:10] <mdszy> and solve for R to find the optimal resistance.
[23:10] <mdszy> which in this case is 330Ohm
[23:10] * ffledgling facepalms.
[23:11] <ffledgling> This is what we always actually used it for.
[23:11] <mdszy> using a 270Ohm would result in 12mA of current, which is just fine too. It'll result in a slightly brighter LED.
[23:11] <ffledgling> guess I should learn to apply my numericals. :/
[23:11] * tbx1024 (~tbialas@fer01-1-78-234-67-117.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:11] <ffledgling> mdszy: Is there any upper limit on the current the LEDs can take?
[23:11] <tbx1024> my ethernet cable fell out :/
[23:11] <mdszy> ffledgling: it'll be in the datasheet. You also need to consider the maximum current the GPIO can supply.
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[23:12] * timewa1ker (~timewalke@eth0.nu) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] <rikkib> 6mA
[23:12] <tbx1024> i'm actually working on a secure Pi project, that's why i came here to ask about the kernel compiling
[23:12] <rikkib> each port
[23:12] <tbx1024> i was recompiling the kernel to add SELinux support and FS encryption support
[23:12] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-96-94.netcologne.de) Quit ()
[23:12] <AbbyTheRat> I wonder if Raynerd is around
[23:12] <rikkib> when using multiple ports
[23:12] <tbx1024> :)
[23:12] <ffledgling> mdszy: I don't really have a datasheet for the LED. But i think shiftplusone just told me to not draw more than 16ma
[23:12] <mdszy> ffledgling: yeah, stay below about 20mA and you should be fine.
[23:13] <rikkib> LED's draw to much current
[23:13] <rikkib> Use a buffer
[23:13] <tbx1024> a small red LED can use 5mA
[23:13] <tbx1024> i think
[23:13] <ffledgling> rikkib: what's a buffer?
[23:13] <mdszy> rikkib: I hope you mean a resistor...
[23:13] <mdszy> ffledgling: he doesn't mean a buffer. He means a current-limiting resistor.
[23:13] <rikkib> http://www.zlham.geek.nz/images/news/rpi-relay-buffer.jpg
[23:13] <ffledgling> mdszy: aren't all resistors current limiting?
[23:14] <mdszy> ffledgling: They can also be used for creating voltage dividers.
[23:14] <mdszy> rikkib: all we need here is a resistor :u
[23:14] * ffledgling wonders if one could start with a rheostat and move the current up to adjust brightness.
[23:14] <mdszy> ffledgling: of course.
[23:14] <rikkib> LED's can draw as much as 20mA or more
[23:14] <mdszy> Just be careful not to burn out your LED.
[23:14] <mdszy> rikkib: technically LED's will draw infinite current, because once they're on they're effectively a short.
[23:15] <mdszy> But they can only withstand so much current until they burn out.
[23:15] <tbx1024> what kind of LEDs are you using? D:
[23:15] <ffledgling> mdszy: There can always be a safer upper limit witha 330Ohm resistor, and then I can add the rheostat in series to adjust brightness, that should act as a safeguard right?
[23:15] <tbx1024> 20mA seems a lot for a single LED imo
[23:15] <ffledgling> tbx1024: I have these small red leds.
[23:15] <pksato> 1980s red led? :)
[23:15] <mdszy> ffledgling: You got it!
[23:15] <ffledgling> pksato: I think so.
[23:16] <rikkib> The RPi is not designed to drive any loads (32mA max)
[23:16] <mdszy> rikkib: we know, we've gone through this already.
[23:16] <ffledgling> pksato: tbx1024: http://sparkpcb.com/images/watermarked/thumbnails/0/150/150/LED_RED.jpg
[23:16] <rikkib> As soon as you load up a RPi you need to use buffers.
[23:17] * malfunct (tethna@2002:43a0:9de:e472:f890:a002:b63c:d40f) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:17] <mdszy> rikkib: for driving an LED you shouldn't need something as complex as a buffer. You only need a resistor.
[23:17] <rikkib> 1 led
[23:18] <mdszy> Or as many as you want. Driving multiple isn't hard, just wire them in parallel with their own current limiting resistors.
[23:18] <ffledgling> hmm, I don't have these so called "jumper cables" or a button.
[23:19] <ffledgling> They look convenient though.
[23:20] <mdszy> ffledgling: http://www.amazon.com/Breadboard-jumper-wire-75pcs-pack/dp/B0040DEI9M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396905600&sr=8-1&keywords=jumper+cables+breadboard enjoy
[23:20] <ffledgling> Woah, not bad. Sadly Amazon doesn't deliver here.
[23:20] <mdszy> or, ffledgling, you can use this. This is what I use. Just unspool as much as you need, cut it off and strip it for the breadboard yourself. http://www.amazon.com/Electronix-Express-Hook-Wire-Solid/dp/B00B4ZRPEY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396905615&sr=8-1&keywords=22ga+wire
[23:20] <gordonDrogon> ffledgling, 17 LEDs: http://unicorn.drogon.net/pi17leds.jpg
[23:20] <mdszy> Those make for much neater looking breadboards and not a rat's nest, especially since it's easier to colorcode
[23:21] <ffledgling> mdszy: Yeah, this is what I'm using, I have a roll of wire and a wire cutter/stripper. But I need to loop the ends manually to connect them to the GPIO pins.
[23:21] <mdszy> ffledgling: ack. Get some female-to-male jumper wires, then :P
[23:22] <ffledgling> mdszy: that's why I said they look convinent :p
[23:22] <mdszy> ffledgling: or you can get this thing that Adafruit sells
[23:22] <mdszy> https://www.adafruit.com/products/1754
[23:23] <ffledgling> Boy does this look neat.
[23:23] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[23:23] <mdszy> I have one that's slightly different, it's pretty handy. But at this point I can't spare all that space on my breadboard, so I'm just using female-to-male wires.
[23:23] * higuita (~higuita@2001:b18:400f:0:e1a2:e8e6:a237:7802) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:24] <mdszy> this is the one I got https://www.adafruit.com/products/914
[23:24] * malfunct (tethna@2002:43a0:9de:e472:fccc:a7db:57a8:740d) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:24] <AbbyTheRat> huh
[23:24] <AbbyTheRat> did adafuirt just changed it website design?
[23:24] <mdszy> Yes.
[23:24] <ffledgling> I think I should've probably ordered this along with my pi. https://www.adafruit.com/products/1014
[23:24] <mdszy> And it's disgusting.
[23:24] <AbbyTheRat> confusing :(
[23:25] <AbbyTheRat> looks prettier but also more confusing
[23:25] <mdszy> ffledgling: I feel like you could get a lot of that stuff separately a lot cheaper than that.
[23:26] <mdszy> although, I could reeeally use one of theses
[23:26] <mdszy> https://www.adafruit.com/products/954
[23:26] <AbbyTheRat> mdszy: I sure wouldn't mind getting stuff cheaper.. I have no idea what thou.. I'm getting the next lot of stuff I need for my project
[23:26] <ffledgling> mdszy: yeah, 104 is pretty steep. I already had a cat5e breadboard and wire roll lying around. so I didn't go for a super expensive starter kit.
[23:26] <mdszy> AbbyTheRat: Check out Digikey or Mouser for stuff that's way cheaper than Adafruit.
[23:26] <mdszy> ffledgling: yeah.
[23:27] <AbbyTheRat> ships to canada?
[23:27] <mdszy> AbbyTheRat: AFAIK they do.
[23:27] <ffledgling> mdszy: woah woah woah, what is *that*?
[23:27] <mdszy> Digikey ships pretty much everywhere, Dave Jones (aussie electronics video blogger) orders stuff from Digikey I think.
[23:27] <mdszy> ffledgling: it lets you plug your Raspberry Pi into a USB port so you can use something like PuTTY to connect to it, instead of using SSH or a monitor + external keyboard.
[23:28] <ffledgling> like a console terminal? :o
[23:28] <mdszy> Yes
[23:28] <AbbyTheRat> do they have 20x4 RGB Neg(I think?) LCD?
[23:28] <mdszy> Exactly.
[23:28] <mdszy> AbbyTheRat: I dunno, you can check.
[23:28] <mdszy> digikey.com
[23:28] <AbbyTheRat> already lookin
[23:28] <AbbyTheRat> g
[23:29] <ffledgling> mdszy: wait, puTTY does SSH right?
[23:29] * AbbyTheRat has like zero eletrotic experiences and wants to reverse engineer a LCD display she has on hand as well
[23:29] <AbbyTheRat> ffledgling: yeahhhh
[23:29] <mdszy> ffledgling: yes, it also does regular ol' console communication
[23:29] <ffledgling> Ohhh, I never used it like that.
[23:29] <ffledgling> I always used screen /dev/tty<whatever>
[23:29] <mdszy> Yeah, you could use screen as well.
[23:30] <mdszy> I've never actually used console TTY for anything really.
[23:30] <mdszy> except for local terminal emulation, obv.
[23:30] <ffledgling> I see. I've never used it much either, excecpt a couple of time to console into something like a network switch.
[23:30] <mdszy> ah
[23:32] <Poison[BLX]> if you already have a usb<->serial adapter laying around from playing with cisco, avr/arduino toys, etc... as long as it's lower voltage range, it'll serve that purpose. Just never plug the pi's uart directly to a PC serial port. PC serial ports are meant for *slightly* higher voltages.
[23:33] <mdszy> Poison[BLX]: you mean I can't use it with my 12V serial port!?
[23:33] <Poison[BLX]> exactly why I added that in ;)
[23:33] <mdszy> lol
[23:34] <Poison[BLX]> I'll not stop anyone from frying their toys, but I won't outright encourage them to do it uninformed! :D
[23:34] <Poison[BLX]> "And if you microwave this spoon, it turns it into a pile of cash!"
[23:35] <malfunct> I thought serial ports could do +/- 25V
[23:35] <mdszy> haha
[23:35] <mdszy> malfunct: oh goodness
[23:35] <AbbyTheRat> Hmm.. can't seem to find it.. mdszy this is what I'm looking for https://www.adafruit.com/products/498
[23:35] <malfunct> The standard specifies a maximum open-circuit voltage of 25 volts: signal levels of �5 V, �10 V, �12 V, and �15 V are all commonly seen depending on the voltages available to the line driver circuit
[23:36] <malfunct> that is for RS-232
[23:36] * lvispy (~luiz@179-125-129-2.desktop.com.br) Quit ()
[23:36] <mdszy> AbbyTheRat: I dunno if Digikey will have something like that. They're more barebones IC's and components.
[23:36] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-114-35.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:36] <rikkib> rs232 works at 3.3v for the RPi
[23:37] <AbbyTheRat> no problem but doesn't seem like they have the display on it own
[23:37] * CEnnis91_ (uid3543@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bywumiyspyavkoja) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:37] <rikkib> usb to rs232 modules work fine with the rpi
[23:37] <mdszy> rikkib: well no duh. We're talking about old 12V logic level stuff.
[23:37] * CEnnis91_ (uid3543@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bywumiyspyavkoja) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:37] <rikkib> I also have a 3.3v gps that connects direct to the rpi
[23:37] <malfunct> yeah but the rs232 to usb modules would do all the level shifting for you
[23:38] <malfunct> I don't think 3.3v signals are valid for the rs232 standard, but that doesn't mean the rpi won't just kind of follow the standard, using the right timings but with lower voltages than usual
[23:39] <davor> would VGA to DVI hooked up to DVI to HDMI work?
[23:39] <malfunct> davor, probably not, I doubt the analog portion of DVI exists in HDMI
[23:39] * Guegs (~Guegs___@207-47-246-154.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:39] <rikkib> Thats right the pl2303 does all the level translating
[23:39] <rikkib> pl2302??? something like that
[23:39] <davor> so DVI has both analog and digital portions?
[23:40] <malfunct> davor, it can have one or the other or both
[23:40] <rikkib> I use a Puolo module for debug
[23:41] <malfunct> davor: depends if its DVI-A, DVI-D or DVI-i
[23:41] <davor> hm, I see malfunct. would this work though? http://www.ebay.com/itm/301050845392
[23:41] <davor> for Pi to VGA screen?
[23:42] <malfunct> davor: probably
[23:42] <malfunct> davor: that doesn't seem to be a passive adapter
[23:42] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-96-94.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:42] <rikkib> I use dvi-d and a passive cable to hook to Philips 236V LCD
[23:43] <malfunct> on a vga port?
[23:43] <rikkib> dvi-d port
[23:43] <malfunct> ahh gotcha, that makes sense
[23:45] <rikkib> and hdmi to hook up to tv's of course. and most tv's has composite in.
[23:45] <malfunct> hdmi is going to give a lot better picture than composite in though
[23:45] <MProg> " [23:41] <davor> hm, I see malfunct. would this work though? http://www.ebay.com/itm/301050845392 " <- those things are evil
[23:45] * eephillip (~eephillip@pdpc/supporter/student/eephillip) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:46] <MProg> they draw more current than the hdmi spec allows
[23:46] <malfunct> MProg, does not surprise me
[23:46] * tbx1024 (~tbialas@fer01-1-78-234-67-117.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Standby...)
[23:46] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:47] <MProg> (could burn out the D1 diode on the pi)
[23:47] * randt0sh (~tosh@2a02-8420-5d7e-c300-2829-89ca-332f-3d2d.rev.sfr.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:48] * eephillip (~eephillip@pdpc/supporter/student/eephillip) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:48] <MProg> http://elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals#HDMI-.3EVGA_converter_boxes
[23:49] * eephillip (~eephillip@pdpc/supporter/student/eephillip) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:51] * medoix (~medoix@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:52] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-68-4.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[23:52] <ffledgling> Why are there 4 separate ground pins on the Pi?
[23:53] <ffledgling> and two 5V pins?
[23:53] <atouk> depends on board version
[23:53] * eephillip (~eephillip@pdpc/supporter/student/eephillip) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[23:54] * sco` (~ross@unaffiliated/sco/x-3425046) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:54] <rikkib> 4 grn pins... Probably convenience
[23:55] <atouk> http://www.atouk.com/wordpress/?page_id=238 command line script to display your board pinouts depending on board version
[23:55] * Mogwai (~mogwai@206-248-185-200.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] <ffledgling> atouk: I get a 404
[23:56] <rikkib> http://www.zlham.geek.nz/images/news/rpi-sys1.jpg
[23:56] <atouk> scroll down to pipins
[23:56] <rikkib> rpi has all grnd pins used
[23:56] <rikkib> rpi1
[23:56] * Guegs (~Guegs___@207-47-246-154.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[23:57] <ffledgling> rikkib: wating for it to open ...
[23:57] <rikkib> slow adsl out here
[23:58] <atouk> ok. there is also a 404 graphic on top of the page. custom error pages instructions
[23:58] <ffledgling> atouk: yes, downloaded the script, unzipping atm.
[23:59] <rikkib> Actually RPi1 has a couple of pins free but it is loaded up with spi/i2c/1wire/rs232

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