#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2014-06-02

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * Duxducis (~thomaspan@nc-184-3-129-187.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Quit: Duxducis)
[0:03] * cave (~cave@gateway/tor-sasl/cave) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:03] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:04] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:04] * tanuva (~tanuva@2a02:8071:29c1:f00:6dee:5f12:e796:6eec) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[0:06] * osxdude|MBP (~osxdude@unaffiliated/osxdude) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:06] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:06] * kwrazi (~kwrazi@220-245-146-175.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:07] * Guegs (~Guegs___@207-47-171-38.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] * dik_dak (~dik_dak@pool-108-21-63-242.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:14] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@cable-178-148-70-163.dynamic.sbb.rs) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:14] * mads- (~mfrstar@eridanus.whatbox.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:15] <mads-> Howdy folks. I'm looking for a small HDMI screen - 7" or below. It has to be bought within EU. Any recommendations?
[0:16] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:16] * marrrk (~marrrk@xdsl-89-0-88-100.netcologne.de) Quit (Quit: marrrk)
[0:19] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-36-83.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[0:20] * gerty_ (~gerty_@gateway/tor-sasl/gerty/x-53688199) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:20] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@202.92.67.179) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:20] * meiskam_ (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:22] <Cheekio> Is one of the images included in NOOBS better for using your pi as a media center?
[0:23] <Cheekio> I think raspbmc is what I want
[0:23] <Cheekio> Is this a standalone from raspbian?
[0:24] <aaa801> Cheekio: yes its standalone
[0:24] <Cheekio> trying it out.
[0:24] <Cheekio> this could be good.
[0:24] <aaa801> its really usefull
[0:24] <aaa801> i have mine hooked up to my nas
[0:24] <Cheekio> nas?
[0:24] <aaa801> network storage
[0:25] * red723 (~redhair@port-92-193-11-83.dynamic.qsc.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] * red723 (~redhair@port-92-193-11-83.dynamic.qsc.de) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:26] * meiskam (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) Quit (*.net *.split)
[0:26] * Olipro (~Olipro@uncyclopedia/pdpc.21for7.olipro) Quit (*.net *.split)
[0:27] * Jon30 (~Jon30@unaffiliated/jon30) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] <q_a_z_steve> Cheekio: I have really liked openelec, although what I would love is to use the current version. I may do that after I get bored with my current idea.
[0:30] * Jon31 (~Jon30@unaffiliated/jon30) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:33] <Syliss> raspbmc and openelec are the best
[0:33] <Syliss> i think i may start using my pi as a stand alone irc client
[0:35] * vifino (~vifino@ip-176-198-144-221.unitymediagroup.de) Quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...)
[0:37] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * Gadgetoid (~Gadgetoid@210.73.2.81.in-addr.arpa) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:38] * ponA (Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-148-191.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:39] * Olipro (~Olipro@uncyclopedia/pdpc.21for7.olipro) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:39] * timatron (~tschwartz@cpe-76-168-57-133.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * bdav|irccloud (uid18072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmlfowebxryhzeho) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[0:42] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:43] * CrackerJoe (~CrackerJo@188.251.181.28) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:43] * kayamm (~km@unaffiliated/kayamm) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * girafe (~girafe@ip-187.net-82-216-137.issy4.rev.numericable.fr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:45] * X54329 (~X54329@c-24-23-69-240.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@host78-22-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[0:47] * Gadgetoid (~Gadgetoid@210.73.2.81.in-addr.arpa) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:49] * crucl0 (~alekzp@78.165.95.41) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[0:49] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:49] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:52] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:52] * bigx (~bigx@cam44-2-82-235-243-114.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[0:54] * dik_dak (~dik_dak@pool-108-21-63-242.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:55] * DataLinkDroid (~DataLinkD@101.170.50.107) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] <Cheekio> Can Raspbmc do 1080p output on the raspberry pi?
[0:55] <Cheekio> I thought the pi could only do 720p?
[0:56] * ponA (Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-148-191.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:58] * mads- (~mfrstar@eridanus.whatbox.ca) has left #raspberrypi
[1:02] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:02] <Syliss> pi can do 1080p
[1:05] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] * rcombs (~rcombs@rcombs.me) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:05] <Cheekio> Well color me surprised
[1:05] <Cheekio> The only real question then is if my cheapo wireless card will work
[1:06] * atouk (~kvirc@ool-4575268a.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:06] <Cheekio> Seems to be downloading updates just fine
[1:06] * Stevie-O (~Stevie-O@pool-108-36-157-223.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:06] * atouk (~kvirc@ool-4575268a.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:06] <Stevie-O> greetings
[1:06] <Cheekio> Hi
[1:07] <Stevie-O> I have an init.d script that is failing. how do I turn on verbose output or whatever so it will tell me why it failed?
[1:08] <Cheekio> lol
[1:08] <Cheekio> patching heartbleed
[1:08] <Cheekio> Stevie-O, are you familiar with /var/log?
[1:09] <Cheekio> Most linux distros will throw a ton of automatic logging in there, in syslog or dmesg
[1:09] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:09] <Stevie-O> where in /var/log? /var/log/messages doesn't say anything
[1:09] <Cheekio> Don't know if that helps, but it's where I'd start.
[1:10] <Cheekio> What's the init.d script for?
[1:10] <Cheekio> could easily log to dmesg, or it might have its own log file
[1:11] <Stevie-O> dmesg is kernel output; this is a program that monitors a modem for caller ID information (ncidd)
[1:12] * Gallomimia_ (~gallomimi@S0106c8fb26452633.ca.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: Gallomimia_)
[1:12] <Cheekio> cat will print whatever file you select to the terminal, so I'd do something like "cat /var/log/*.log | grep ncidd"
[1:12] <Cheekio> see if any of the .log files contain lines that mention nciid
[1:12] <Cheekio> ncidd*
[1:14] <Stevie-O> got it
[1:14] <Stevie-O> sh -x /etc/init.d/ncidd showed me the command that was being run
[1:14] <Stevie-O> I ran that and got the exit code
[1:15] <Stevie-O> one of the config files has an error in it
[1:15] * Stevie-O (~Stevie-O@pool-108-36-157-223.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:16] * timatron (~tschwartz@cpe-76-168-57-133.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: timatron)
[1:17] <Cheekio> nice
[1:17] <Cheekio> that's like 99.9% of debugging in linux
[1:17] <Cheekio> you're basically a programmer now.
[1:17] <Cheekio> that, and googling the error code
[1:18] * Tachyon` avoids comment
[1:18] * double-you (~Miranda@178-26-33-138-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: ja)
[1:20] * Guegs (~Guegs___@207-47-171-38.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:22] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@c-76-115-7-194.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[1:24] * rcombs (~rcombs@rcombs.me) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:28] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:31] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@66.130.12.167) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:31] * utack (~utack@mnch-d9bde496.pool.mediaways.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:35] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[1:35] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@66.130.12.167) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:35] * Noodlewitt (~Noodlewit@r49-3-0-137.cpe.vividwireless.net.au) has left #raspberrypi
[1:37] * SuperKoos (~User@unaffiliated/superkoos) has left #raspberrypi
[1:37] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:38] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:38] * Brod (~Brod@foresh2.lnk.telstra.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] * kayamm (~km@unaffiliated/kayamm) Quit (Quit: part)
[1:41] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:44] * Brod (~Brod@foresh2.lnk.telstra.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:44] * Brod (~Brod@foresh2.lnk.telstra.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:46] * skywalk (skywalk@modemcable030.252-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:46] <skywalk> anyone know if raspberry pi should work with http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400654481714?var=670202981235&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 it doenst seem to detect the display at all
[1:47] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:47] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:48] * Thonneve (Thonneve@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-fjgmzhgoaqazzbtr) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:51] * Syliss (~Home2@dpncorp1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[1:54] <duality> skywalk: er
[1:55] * coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95) Quit (Quit: coolbot95)
[1:55] * snuffeluffegus (~John@homie-vserver314.dreamhost.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:56] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:56] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit ()
[1:59] * X54329 (~X54329@c-24-23-69-240.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2:01] <Tachyon`> you probably have to force it into the right mode
[2:01] <Tachyon`> in the config.txt
[2:04] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:04] * robmorrissey (~robmorris@cpc26-brig15-2-0-cust123.3-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:04] * burlyscudd (~burlyscud@metasploit/burlyscudd) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:07] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:07] * robmorrissey (~robmorris@cpc26-brig15-2-0-cust123.3-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:07] * coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:10] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:12] * X54329 (~X54329@c-24-23-69-240.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:13] * eao (~emanon@178.19.62.212) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:14] * someguy256 (~someguy25@69-165-137-64.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:17] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:20] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:20] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:20] * thesheff17 (~thesheff1@24-148-57-183.c3-0.lem-ubr1.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:21] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:24] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:25] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:25] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:26] * CrackerJoe (~CrackerJo@188.251.181.28) Quit (Quit: CrackerJoe)
[2:26] * Aergan (~Aergan@host81-151-219-0.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[2:27] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:29] * eao (~emanon@178.19.62.212) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:29] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:30] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:33] * Synthead (~max@c-71-231-120-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:36] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:36] * thesheff17 (~thesheff1@24-148-57-183.c3-0.lem-ubr1.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:39] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:39] * harish (~harish@175.156.211.232) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:41] * meiskam_ (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:43] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:43] * burlyscudd (~burlyscud@metasploit/burlyscudd) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[2:45] * mumixam (~m@unaffiliated/mumixam) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:46] * meiskam (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:47] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:47] * IWishIKnew (~IWishIKne@ip68-224-135-32.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Binary is just base-2, just like hexadecimal is base 16, and bytes are base 256. All your bases are belong to us.)
[2:47] * osxdude|MBP (~osxdude@unaffiliated/osxdude) Quit (Quit: Smell ya later. Time to sleep. Hold the phone. Don't dial the emergency number.)
[2:48] * MichaelC3 (~unknownbl@phpbb/website/Unknown-Bliss) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:49] * MichaelC (~unknownbl@phpbb/website/Unknown-Bliss) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:51] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:52] * mumixam (~m@unaffiliated/mumixam) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:54] * Synthead (~max@c-71-231-120-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2:56] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[2:57] * meiskam_ (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:57] * meiskam (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:00] * osxdude|MBP (~osxdude@unaffiliated/osxdude) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:04] * robmorrissey (~robmorris@cpc26-brig15-2-0-cust123.3-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[3:04] * Gwayne (~Gwayne@opensuse/member/gwayne) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:05] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:06] * Synthead (~max@c-71-231-120-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:07] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:07] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:11] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:14] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:19] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:22] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:26] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:29] * Hydra (~Hydra@5751c98f.skybroadband.com) Quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-)
[3:29] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:31] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:33] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:35] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[3:35] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[3:36] * Kostenko (~Kostenko@bl13-140-155.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:37] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:37] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:37] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[3:38] * Kostenko (~Kostenko@bl9-168-145.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:38] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:40] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:41] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:41] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:42] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[3:44] * cottongin is now known as cottongin[MURT]
[3:48] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:49] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:50] * lvispy (~luiz@179-125-137-118.desktop.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:53] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:56] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:58] * osxdude|MBP (~osxdude@unaffiliated/osxdude) Quit (Quit: Smell ya later. Time to sleep. Hold the phone. Don't dial the emergency number.)
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[5:22] <AHemlocksLie> I'm trying to set up a remote desktop connection to my pi, but I need to be able to leave a browser window running. I tried an xrdp guide I found through Google, but it seems to close all my windows and log out on disconnect
[5:24] <AHemlocksLie> Does anyone know a way I can set this up with some degree of permanence?
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[5:25] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) Quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
[5:25] * coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95) Quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:25] <AHemlocksLie> Scratch that, I think I've found a slightly dirty workaround
[5:29] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:31] <shiftplusone> plain old x11vnc or vncserver would work
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[5:40] <chunkyhead> shiftplusone: just a thought, but could ssh and screen work?
[5:41] <shiftplusone> yeah
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[5:46] <shiftplusone> (not for x11 stuff, unless you use x forwarding, but even then, it wouldn't be persistent)
[5:46] <chunkyhead> oh i had to ask one thing, when i use graphical interface over ssh, i can't open the same application on the machine i have ssh-ed into. any workaround?
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[5:47] <shiftplusone> provide the DISPLAY variable manually
[5:47] <shiftplusone> for example, DISPLAY=:0 xterm
[5:47] <chunkyhead> forwarding x, yes. i need to remember saying that instead of 'using graphical interface over ssh'
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[5:54] <[Saint]> Indeed.
[5:54] <[Saint]> In my mind, a CLI is still a graphical interface. ;)
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[6:18] <chunkyhead> it's graphical if you see something on the screen
[6:18] * lys (~user@cpe-72-226-27-221.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: lys)
[6:18] <chunkyhead> ;) makes me feel you're not a good saint
[6:19] * [Saint] is now known as sinner
[6:19] <sinner> Better? ;)
[6:19] <shiftplusone> I was just about to say, careful, he changed his nick to [Sinner] sometimes.
[6:19] <shiftplusone> *changes
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[6:20] <shiftplusone> old predictable [Saint]
[6:20] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:23] * sinner is now known as [Saint]
[6:23] <[Saint]> I', not *that* old. :)
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[6:25] <chunkyhead> hahaha
[6:25] <chunkyhead> you made me laugh
[6:25] <chunkyhead> laughing is a good medicine
[6:25] <chunkyhead> thank you. you're a good saint :p
[6:27] <[Saint]> One of the very few that are free. :)
[6:27] <chunkyhead> i'm glad
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[6:59] <chunkyhead> my httpd service fails to start.
[7:01] <chunkyhead> systemctl status httpd.service says: http://bpaste.net/show/330839
[7:02] <chunkyhead> journalctl -xn returns http://bpaste.net/show/330851
[7:06] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[7:10] <shiftplusone> chunkyhead, what's in httpd.conf?
[7:10] <chunkyhead> i didnt change anything. it was running 5 mins ago. then i stopped the service
[7:10] <chunkyhead> i start it again and ...
[7:11] <chunkyhead> and to answer your question http://bpaste.net/show/330862
[7:12] <shiftplusone> LoadModule LoadModule mpm_prefork_module modules/mod_mpm_prefork.so
[7:12] <shiftplusone> see the problem there?
[7:13] <chunkyhead> O.o
[7:13] <chunkyhead> yes
[7:13] <shiftplusone> " httpd: Syntax error on line 153 of /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf: LoadModule takes two arguments, a module name and the name of a shared object file to load it from"
[7:13] <chunkyhead> but how didi it start int the first place
[7:13] <chunkyhead> yea i get what you are saying
[7:13] <chunkyhead> i didnt bother to look in the conf file because it worked before.
[7:13] <chunkyhead> this change i made last night. O.o
[7:13] <shiftplusone> the error your pasted told you exactly where the problem is O_o. I don't know why it changed, but it did. Maybe sd corruption (doubt it).
[7:13] <chunkyhead> that's funny
[7:14] <chunkyhead> thank you
[7:14] <shiftplusone> np
[7:14] <chunkyhead> btw which error helped you? i need to learn how to solve my own problem
[7:14] <shiftplusone> the error I pasted
[7:14] <shiftplusone> " httpd: Syntax error on line 153 of /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf: LoadModule takes two arguments, a module name and the name of a shared object file to load it from"
[7:15] <shiftplusone> it has the file name, the line number and the exact problem listed.
[7:15] <chunkyhead> that'll be systemctl status.. hmm
[7:15] <chunkyhead> thanks
[7:15] <shiftplusone> np
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[7:29] <chunkyhead> guys..
[7:30] * NightMonkey (~NightMonk@pdpc/supporter/professional/nightmonkey) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:30] <chunkyhead> i have changed the DocumentRoot in apache to /mnt/flash/folder/
[7:30] <chunkyhead> which is essentially a pendrive
[7:30] <chunkyhead> i cant seem to chmod the folder..
[7:30] <shiftplusone> fat32/ntfs don't support linux permissions
[7:30] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[7:31] <chunkyhead> :'(
[7:31] <chunkyhead> no wonder
[7:31] <chunkyhead> any other way to make the pendrive available over ftp?
[7:31] <chunkyhead> i could format it in ext..
[7:31] * trisi (~trisi@63-140-84-255.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[7:31] <shiftplusone> there are many different ways
[7:31] <chunkyhead> but i need it elsewhere
[7:32] <chunkyhead> like?
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[7:32] <Jusii> you have to mount it with correct permissions
[7:32] <chunkyhead> elsewhere (on a windows systems)
[7:32] <shiftplusone> you can specify what used/permission it needs when you mount it
[7:32] <shiftplusone> *user
[7:32] <Triffid_Hunter> shiftplusone: ntfs does support permissions actually, but there's not a perfect 1:1 mapping between linux and windows ones
[7:33] <shiftplusone> Triffid_Hunter, to what extent does ntfs support linux permissions at all?
[7:34] <chunkyhead> with what permissions do i need to mount it? rw?
[7:34] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:34] <shiftplusone> it's trickier than that, chunkyhead, google will help you out.
[7:35] <Triffid_Hunter> chunkyhead: try sudo chmod -R o+rX /mnt/flash/folder
[7:37] <chunkyhead> Triffid_Hunter: mount it normally or with rw?
[7:37] <Triffid_Hunter> chunkyhead: changing permissions is writing
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[7:42] <chunkyhead> not working access denied
[7:43] <Triffid_Hunter> well I have ntfs stuff here, and I had to add mount options to turn off the permissions because I didn't want them :P
[7:44] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[7:44] <shiftplusone> chunkyhead, is it ntfs and are you using ntfs3g. If so, 'man ntfs-3g'
[7:44] <chunkyhead> it might be fat32
[7:44] <chunkyhead> lol
[7:44] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@c-76-115-7-194.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[7:44] <chunkyhead> let me check
[7:44] <chunkyhead> fat32 it is
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[7:45] <Triffid_Hunter> chunkyhead: yep, vfat has no permissions
[7:45] <chunkyhead> windows...
[7:45] <chunkyhead> fml
[7:45] <shiftplusone> (and neither does ntfs, as far as linux is concerned)
[7:46] <chunkyhead> why the fuck cant they support other fs?
[7:46] <shiftplusone> you can still use uid and gid parameters
[7:47] <shiftplusone> chunkyhead, family friendly channel, tone it down.
[7:47] <chunkyhead> i mean everything is open source.. not like you have to set up a whole new rnd dept
[7:47] <chunkyhead> my bad i apologize
[7:47] * IWishIKnew (~IWishIKne@ip68-224-135-32.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Binary is just base-2, just like hexadecimal is base 16, and bytes are base 256. All your bases are belong to us.)
[7:47] <shiftplusone> you can access ext from windows just fine, you just need something like ext2fsd, for example.
[7:47] <chunkyhead> yes i know
[7:47] <shiftplusone> write support is still a tad 'meh'
[7:47] <chunkyhead> but it should be out of the box
[7:48] <chunkyhead> an OS in 2014 should atleast be able to do that
[7:48] <chunkyhead> can you elaborate a bit more on the uid and git parameters
[7:48] <chunkyhead> gid*
[7:49] <shiftplusone> look at 'man mount' under 'Mount options for fat'
[7:49] <chunkyhead> alright
[7:53] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:54] <q_a_z_steve> How do I go about making my own dual boot? I either want to put newer images in NOOBS or just flash two partitions, but then how do I get the boot loader to recognize any of it?
[7:55] <shiftplusone> q_a_z_steve, if you want it to work with NOOBS, https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs#how-to-create-a-custom-os-version
[7:55] <shiftplusone> you may also want to look at 'berryboot'
[7:55] <q_a_z_steve> k, cool.
[7:55] <chunkyhead> i find berryboot easier to use
[7:56] <shiftplusone> if you want to do it all manually, you need to pivot/switch_root from some minimal environment, or reverse how NOOBS does it.
[7:57] <shiftplusone> I recommend sticking with NOOBS, since you'll have more support when things go wrong.
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[8:03] <chunkyhead> how much time does deluge take to start on your pi?
[8:03] <chunkyhead> deluge-console ie
[8:03] <shiftplusone> try it
[8:04] <chunkyhead> it's taking forever
[8:04] <chunkyhead> that's why i was asking
[8:04] <shiftplusone> in that case, 'forever'
[8:04] <chunkyhead> lol
[8:04] <shiftplusone> try rtorrent or transmission
[8:04] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:04] <chunkyhead> i want web and remote client
[8:04] <chunkyhead> can they offer that?
[8:05] <shiftplusone> transmission, definitely
[8:05] <shiftplusone> rtorrent, kind of
[8:05] <shiftplusone> there's rutorrent, for rtorrent, which works great
[8:05] <shiftplusone> and rtorrent itself can be used in screen over ssh, for example
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[8:06] <chunkyhead> any idea how much time would transmission take to start
[8:06] <chunkyhead> on rpi
[8:06] <shiftplusone> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/RTorrent
[8:06] <shiftplusone> no, no idea, I don't time things
[8:06] <chunkyhead> no what i mean is, it shouldnt take a long time
[8:06] <chunkyhead> deluge took more than a minute
[8:07] <shiftplusone> and of course, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Transmission
[8:07] <shiftplusone> deluge is written in python, if I am not wrong
[8:07] <shiftplusone> which isn't the best language for things like that
[8:08] * bnw (~bnw@183.17.183.47) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:08] <[Saint]> (and, the pi *is* essentially a ~2008 smartphone - people forget this)
[8:08] <chunkyhead> 1min 50 secs to start deluge
[8:08] <[Saint]> remember how snappy your first ARMv6 Android device wasn't? ;)
[8:08] <[Saint]> Well...that.
[8:08] <chunkyhead> after some modules were *hopefully* cached
[8:09] <chunkyhead> let me try transmission and/or r
[8:09] <chunkyhead> torrent
[8:09] <[Saint]> Just keep in mind that this isn't a consumer grade desktop, and you'll be fine - set the bar low.
[8:10] <[Saint]> By doing so, you can be amazed, instead of constantly disappointed.
[8:10] <chunkyhead> yea i realise it. :)
[8:11] <chunkyhead> i just didnt think deluge will be so heavy. i wasn't disappointed by. i was just surprised by deluge
[8:11] <chunkyhead> disappointed by pi*
[8:11] <[Saint]> Depending on what else you have up, you're probably swapping the OS to death.
[8:12] <[Saint]> swap and sd don;t really mix.
[8:12] * Bedguin is now known as Benguin
[8:12] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@202.92.67.179) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[8:13] <[Saint]> If you must swap, a compressed RAMdisk is likely the best answer, but the computational overhead likely makes it only worthwhile in rare circumstances.
[8:14] <chunkyhead> ramdisk as in ramfs?
[8:15] <[Saint]> But - in saying that, its going to be pretty hard to find a worse case scenario for the pi than torrenting in general - so, it's going to be hard to make it run "well" in any circumstance.
[8:16] <Triffid_Hunter> chunkyhead: one of the things with the rpi is that both ethernet and any external disks are both downstream of the same usb port at the SoC.. it's fairly disinteresting in terms of speed at the best of times, but bouncing the same data back and forth between the two devices really makes it worse
[8:18] <chunkyhead> that came to my mind when i was thinking loading deluge
[8:19] <bnw> "sudo aptitude upgrade" takes a long time (almost an hour and counting) resolving dependencies. Maybe I should not upgrade raspbian this way?
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[8:20] <chunkyhead> it's your pi.
[8:20] <chunkyhead> takes time to install.
[8:21] <shiftplusone> overclocking and moving away from the sd card may help
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[8:22] <chunkyhead> wait.. resolving dependencies? that shouldn't take much time unless you have a loooot of stuff installed
[8:23] <chunkyhead> how old is your raspian image?
[8:23] * Kane (~Kane@ADijon-257-1-123-43.w90-48.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:24] <[Saint]> Yeah - something is seriously messed up.
[8:24] <bnw> I reran that command after first try w/ a 'Failed to fetch ...libpoppler44...armhf.deb: Could not connect to raspbian.cnssuestc.org:80 ... E:Unable to correct for unavailable packages' error.
[8:24] <[Saint]> Worst case scenario would take minutes to resolve deps.
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[8:25] <[Saint]> You're in some screwy state.
[8:25] <chunkyhead> an hour is too much
[8:25] <bnw> The image should be less then 3 month old.
[8:25] <[Saint]> Unfortunately, the age isn't very interesting at all - its rather meaningless.
[8:26] <chunkyhead> maybe in raspian it is meaningless
[8:26] <chunkyhead> i dont use it
[8:28] <bnw> When it's resolving dependencies, messages displayed are like the following: open 56474; closed: 42679; defer: 8; conflict: 11
[8:28] <[Saint]> I'm saying its meaningless because it can't tell us anything really interesting unless we assume the the image is in an *absolutely* clean, and therefore known, state.
[8:28] <[Saint]> I'm willing to bet good money this isn't the case.
[8:28] * Datalink (Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[8:29] <chunkyhead> sometimes really old images (unlike in his case) leaves the system broken.
[8:29] <chunkyhead> but debian has another way of battling that. upgrading sequentially.
[8:29] <bnw> Just Ctrl+C and make another attempt.
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[8:33] <bnw> Upgraded my desktop Debian yesterday, failed in the middle, result in failure to run X, doing a "sudo dpkg --configure -a" as aptitude had suggested solved the problem.
[8:34] <chunkyhead> there's your problem
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[8:36] <bnw> aptitude in raspbian did not work as good as in a full fledged desktop Debian.
[8:36] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:39] <[Saint]> aptitude in raspbian *is* aptitude in debian, essentially.
[8:39] <[Saint]> The two should behave identically.
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[8:40] <[Saint]> I try to shy away from aptitude, however.
[8:40] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[8:40] <[Saint]> I'm not a fan of package managers that think they're smarter than I am.
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[8:43] <bnw> I did read somewhere on the web a couples of months ago that aptitude resolved dependencies better than apt-get did.
[8:44] <bnw> so personally I prefer aptitude than apt-get.
[8:44] <shiftplusone> does apt-get work as it should 100% of the time you've used it?
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[8:46] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: I can't think of a time it has failed me personally.
[8:46] * Gwayne (~Gwayne@opensuse/member/gwayne) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[8:46] <shiftplusone> aye.... and by the sounds of it, the same can't be said for aptitude.
[8:46] <[Saint]> I can think of times coworkers got into trouble after pinning specific versions, though.
[8:46] <bnw> I just interrupted aptitude again to try apt-get. It went further down. I will see.
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[8:51] <timekeeper> hi, i have a quick q regarding using the pi for a project
[8:52] <[Saint]> Then ask it, dear Liza.
[8:52] <timekeeper> what's the easiest way to control 12v using the gpio pins? I want to use the pi gpio to open and close 12v current going into an electric door striker lock
[8:52] <shiftplusone> mosfet + relay
[8:52] <shiftplusone> or just a mosfet, probably
[8:53] <timekeeper> that works with an external 12v input?
[8:53] <shiftplusone> I'd wait for someone more familiar with mosfets to reply. I've used BJTs in similar applications and they work fine. I suspect mosfets will work better.
[8:54] <timekeeper> gotcha, thanks
[8:54] <timekeeper> looks like something along these lines I suppose: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49306
[8:55] <shiftplusone> aye
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[8:57] <bnw> apt-get failed to connect to cnssuestc.org ( again), seems there is a network issue. Anyway thank you guys.
[8:57] <timekeeper> ideally i'd have 12v going in from the power adapter, going through a breadboard or whatever, and then a switch/gate controlled by the raspberry gpio
[8:58] <timekeeper> yes that .org seems to be down
[8:59] <timekeeper> waha
[8:59] <timekeeper> http://www.robertcudmore.org/blog/?p=181
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[9:03] <gordonDrogon> timekeeper, logic level power mosfets - easy to use with no external components: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10213
[9:03] <timekeeper> oui, i was just looking at that link
[9:03] <timekeeper> so i feed in 12v external to the V+, and then the gpio to the gate pin?
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[9:08] <timekeeper> I found a mosfet irf520
[9:09] <Triffid_Hunter> IRF520 likely won't turn on with only 3.3v at the gate (see Vgs(th) and Ids vs Vgs graph in datasheet).. try ZXMN4A06 or AOT240L
[9:10] <timekeeper> okay, thanks :)
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[9:18] <chunkyhead> pacman cant find yaourt
[9:19] <chunkyhead> wth
[9:19] <shiftplusone> yaourt had to be installed manually for quite a while
[9:19] <shiftplusone> though I thought it was already included in the image for pi
[9:19] <chunkyhead> no it isn't
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[9:32] <timekeeper> it would be a bad idea to use a darlington pair to step up to 12v instead of a dedicated power supply right?
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[9:33] <shiftplusone> darlington pair to step up a voltage? =S
[9:34] <timekeeper> yeah that's for current or something isn't it
[9:34] <timekeeper> god, i hate the switch to hardware electronics.. i'm a software guy
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[9:35] <shiftplusone> aye, bjts (and therefore darlingtons) are for current amplification
[9:35] <timekeeper> hopefully the mosfet is all i need to wire it in
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[9:43] <timekeeper> Triffid_Hunter: which part of the datasheet are you looking at? For the AOT240L and sparkfun FQP30N06L, they all say +-20v for Vgss
[9:43] <timekeeper> as well as the irf520?
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[9:44] <mike_t> Transfer to device 7 endpoint 0x1 frame 1689 failed - FIQ reported NYET. Data may have been lost.
[9:44] <mike_t> new kernel == new plroblem?
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[9:45] <shiftplusone> mike_t, post it in the usb fiq re-write thread with dmesg and lsusb -v
[9:46] <shiftplusone> mike_t, http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70437
[9:47] <mike_t> ok
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[10:10] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: that's Vgs(max), you're looking for Vgs(th), which is where the mosfet barely starts to turn on, and the Ids vs Vgs graph which shows you where it's fully on (look for where Ids goes flat)
[10:10] <timekeeper> ooh I see
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[10:20] <timekeeper> i can't find the ids vs vgs graph in the infosheet, but in the table for the irf520 the vgs(th) says min 2.0 and max 4.0v, vs min 1. and 2.2v for the AOT240L?
[10:21] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: yep, and the rpi only puts out 3.3v
[10:22] <timekeeper> which falls under the irf520 and not the AOT240L, no?
[10:22] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: www.vishay.com/docs/91017/91017.pdf figure 3 page 3 - Ids vs Vg
[10:22] <timekeeper> not disagreeing, just trying to understand
[10:23] <Triffid_Hunter> in the AOT240L datasheet, it's figure 2 on page 3, note how it basically goes vertical at Vgs=3v
[10:23] <Triffid_Hunter> whereas the IRF520 is still curving at 10v
[10:24] <rikkib> I use mtp3055vl logic level fets
[10:25] <timekeeper> mm
[10:25] <timekeeper> so the irf520 takes a great deal of v to cross the threshold and activate?
[10:26] <timekeeper> whereas the AOT240L is kicking up at past 2-2.5?
[10:26] <Triffid_Hunter> rikkib: their Rds(on) is awful.. ample for a relay or some leds though
[10:26] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: they're not just on/off, they're like the taps on your shower. it just starts to drip at Vgs(th), and it's running full bore when that Id vs Vgs graph goes flat
[10:27] <timekeeper> but the 520 never really goes flat, it's curving all the way to the top
[10:27] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: right, hence me suggesting you avoid them for this application ;)
[10:27] <timekeeper> iiiinteresting
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[10:28] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: if you want to know how hot it's gonna get, google 'chuck mcmanis fet current ratings' ;)
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[10:28] <timekeeper> okay
[10:28] <timekeeper> http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Components/General/FQP30N06L.pdf
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[10:28] <timekeeper> that one looks better suited than the AOT240L no?
[10:28] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: for most simple things like leds and relays and stuff, it's likely to be stone cold
[10:29] * Elek101 (~textual@diagenode.socext.ulg.ac.be) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[10:29] <timekeeper> i'm going to be running a 12v dc through it for an electric striker lock
[10:29] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: curve flattens out at 6v for that one, but the knee is probably close enough to 3.3v for you to use it
[10:29] <timekeeper> but you'd still suggest the AOT240L?
[10:30] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: it's simply one of a few mosfets I know of that work nicely with 3.3v logic
[10:30] <timekeeper> gotcha
[10:30] <timekeeper> tyvm for explaining
[10:30] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: hence me teaching you how to evalulate any random mosfet you happen across for this application :)
[10:30] <timekeeper> very useful to know
[10:32] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: the three most interesting numbers in the datasheet are Vgs(th), Rds(on) and Qg. Ids(max) is mostly a fantasy- you can calculate it yourself by assuming that the heatsink is magical, and can hold the case at 25°C even when the mosfet is pushing 400w and thus melting
[10:33] <timekeeper> liquid nitrogen!
[10:33] <timekeeper> righto
[10:33] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: heh even with liquid nitrogen, if the silicon is pushing too much heat then it will go past 175°C even while the case is held cold
[10:34] <timekeeper> yep
[10:34] <timekeeper> the vgs(th) actual min-max numbers don't seem to match the id-vgs graph though?
[10:34] <timekeeper> it only starts going up in the line at past 2 for http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Components/General/FQP30N06L.pdf
[10:34] <timekeeper> which is the vgs(th) max, and there's nothing at min 1.0
[10:35] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: the graph starts at 1A
[10:35] <Triffid_Hunter> so it allows less than 1A below 2v
[10:36] <Triffid_Hunter> tap remember, not switch :)
[10:36] <timekeeper> oui, got to get into that mindset
[10:36] <timekeeper> no more digital on offs, we're talking analog
[10:36] <timekeeper> so the best way is to examine the id-vgs graph for any mosfet in the datasheet?
[10:37] <Triffid_Hunter> yep
[10:37] <timekeeper> who knew graph reading would come in handy after grade school..
[10:37] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: there's *pages* of them ;)
[10:37] <timekeeper> literally
[10:39] <timekeeper> i'm looking to use the mosfet in something like this
[10:39] <timekeeper> http://bildr.org/2012/03/rfp30n06le-arduino/
[10:39] <timekeeper> to on and off 12v current to a door lock
[10:39] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: better grab some diodes too, shottky for preference
[10:40] <timekeeper> to protect the mosfet from the blowback?
[10:40] <Triffid_Hunter> yes
[10:41] <timekeeper> how would that wire in between the V+ and the other end going to the D pin?
[10:41] <Triffid_Hunter> when an inductor or coil is turned off, the current can't stop instantly, just like a big train. it must keep moving. if there's nowhere for it to go, the voltage spikes hugely, typically blowing holes in your silicon
[10:41] <Triffid_Hunter> luckily, a simple diode is perfect for giving the current somewhere to flow without having to make large voltags
[10:42] <timekeeper> ok i'll add a schottky to my shopping list
[10:42] <Triffid_Hunter> timekeeper: http://i.stack.imgur.com/p6WtJ.png
[10:42] <Triffid_Hunter> the resistor there is necessary to prevent the mosfet getting damaged by electrostatic discharge
[10:42] <timekeeper> right
[10:43] <Triffid_Hunter> 100k should work fine
[10:44] <timekeeper> so a diode and a 100k resistor? or just the resistor
[10:45] <Triffid_Hunter> both
[10:45] <Triffid_Hunter> the diode is very important! without it, your mosfet will be destroyed in only a few switching cycles due to Vds(max) being exceeded
[10:46] <timekeeper> righto
[10:46] <timekeeper> ok
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[11:23] * gordonDrogon returns after breakfast..
[11:23] <gordonDrogon> timekeeper, sounds liek you'resorted!
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[11:24] <timekeeper> i hope so, just gotta get my hands on the parts
[11:24] <timekeeper> thanks for your help
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[11:25] <causality> gordonDrogon: it was you who did the 4D display video, right?
[11:25] <gordonDrogon> causality, I did some wirh with them, yes.
[11:25] <gordonDrogon> *work
[11:25] <causality> gordonDrogon: i ordered a couple of 32028-P1-PiT's off the back of them
[11:25] <causality> 4D are being pretty useless, though
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[11:29] <gordonDrogon> Hm. it's an interesting little display system but I do wonder now if the various Pi TFT solutions are now better - e.g. the adafruit one.
[11:29] <gordonDrogon> a year ago when I was doing the code it was unclear.
[11:29] <causality> for me, speed of development of this one-off system is key
[11:29] <causality> oled tends to have better performance in daylight than tft/lcd, unless it's a transmissive display
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[11:32] <gordonDrogon> sue.
[11:32] <gordonDrogon> *sure.
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[11:52] <Daulity> hey all
[11:53] <shiftplusone> ahoy
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[12:32] <Munt> Hey folks, for the past month and a bit I have been trying to learn about electronics from (allaboutcircuits.com / youtube etc) and I have been learning to code from codecademy. Starting with Python, I seen it was very slow but easy to use. I tried getting my toes wet with Javascript to see that all the existing programs I wanted to interact with were written in Python or even C++ … Each time I run into a new applicatio
[12:32] <Munt> also run into a new language. In the interest of not having to learn every language on earth (im not that smart) I want to interact with sensors and motors and also have my code be accessible to many users (e.g. via the web, android, desktops etc). For instance getting data from a DHT22 Temperature sensor apparently needs C because it needs to be fast to see the data coming out of it. Can Java operate with hardware
[12:32] <Munt> quickly as I’ll ever need to or should I start learning C ?
[12:33] <[Saint]> You should start learning C.
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[12:34] <[Saint]> But, then, I think everyone should.
[12:34] <[Saint]> Its pretty much unavoidable.
[12:35] <Munt> Thank you [Saint] :D Does it make a difference what IDE I use or should I start sans-ide ? (I enjoy working in OSX)
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[12:35] <mgottschlag> Munt: the problem with Java/python is not so much the speed but the realtime capabilities
[12:35] <mgottschlag> a garbage collector will always force your program to pause for some time at random times
[12:36] <timekeeper> damned garbage collector unions
[12:36] <mgottschlag> which is obviously bad if you interact with time-critical external components (or if you do low level audio stuff or things like that)
[12:36] <gordonDrogon> I use C for all my projects (other than the RTB ones).
[12:36] <gordonDrogon> look for the wiringPi library for C code.
[12:36] <mgottschlag> Munt: also, I would recomment starting with C without an IDE for your first project
[12:36] <shiftplusone> luckily, javascript, c, c++, c#, python, java, D and all other languages are pretty much the same (as far as learning them goes). If you learn one, picking up another isn't going to be too much of an issue.
[12:36] <mgottschlag> afterwards you can use XCode or whatever
[12:36] <gordonDrogon> I use a simple editor (vim) and Makefiles for all my C work.
[12:37] <shiftplusone> so it's not about 'learning every language' is about picking the right one for what you want to do.
[12:37] <gordonDrogon> some may not consider vim simple though...
[12:37] <mgottschlag> gvim + CMake for me, no IDE :)
[12:37] <shiftplusone> C, geany, makefiles for me
[12:37] <gordonDrogon> and wiringPi is at http://wiringpi.com/ and there's loads of examples there.
[12:37] <Munt> mgottschlag , gordonDrogon , shiftplusone thanks for the information, it’s very much appreciated!
[12:37] <mgottschlag> actually, Qt Creator for the projects where I am working together with others
[12:38] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[12:38] <Munt> I have been looking at wiringPi while I have been trying to interact with RF links
[12:38] <mgottschlag> but QMake sucks.
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[12:38] <Munt> (it took me one day to realise that it was not sending numbers but bytes of on’s and offs … so my code was ridiculous :p
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[12:39] <shiftplusone> In my experience, everything I do is ridiculous, if I look back on it in a few months time.
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[12:39] <mgottschlag> ... yeah. And then I try to improve upon it and notice it wasn't that stupid after all.
[12:40] <Munt> Hindsight is a wonderful thing
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[12:41] <shiftplusone> I haven't reached the point where I've mastered anything, so there's lots more learning to do. Doesn't help that I jump from one thing to another either. I've just equally bad at everything, rather than good at a few things >_<
[12:42] <Munt> you’re not alone shiftplusone I’m a UX designer/Animator/Product Designer/waster
[12:42] <shiftplusone> heh
[12:43] <mgottschlag> my main language is C++, and the great thing about it is that it is impossible to master, it is so complicated that you discover new nice as well as ugly stuff every day :D
[12:43] <Munt> I am a bit confused about compliers. If I code a program on a mac, it’s just a case of compling it on a PC to make it run there ?
[12:43] <mgottschlag> btw, Google Go ftw.
[12:44] <mgottschlag> Munt: yeah, you need to recompile for every other platform
[12:44] <shiftplusone> Munt, thanks to gcc, yes.
[12:44] <shiftplusone> you need to make sure you don't use OS-specific libraries though
[12:44] <mgottschlag> also, Linux on x86 != Linux on ARM (pi)
[12:45] <shiftplusone> so forget win api or cocoa
[12:45] <Munt> GCC is a common set of libraries across many platforms ?
[12:45] <mgottschlag> the C standard library is... well, standardized across platforms
[12:45] <shiftplusone> gcc is a compiler which works on and for many different platforms
[12:45] <mgottschlag> the GCC is only the compiler, which can use whatever libraries you give it
[12:46] <mgottschlag> you can use C without any library, that's actually the only thing the compiler itselfs implements, but then you don't have any functions to call from your program :)
[12:46] <gordonDrogon> the biggest issue is cross-platform graphics.
[12:46] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon, is it?
[12:46] <gordonDrogon> not insurmountable though. SDL, Qt, etc.
[12:46] <shiftplusone> if anything, sdl makes things easier
[12:47] <Munt> Is it possible to have a C++ aplication run on android in any capacity ?
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[12:47] <gordonDrogon> that's why I'm using it - one day I'll re-compile RTB under Win.
[12:47] <shiftplusone> Munt, yes.
[12:47] <mgottschlag> Munt: yeah, but again, graphics and input are difficult to do cross-platform
[12:48] <mgottschlag> Qt supports desktop and Android applications in a somewhat compatible way
[12:48] <Munt> I have been trying to use a variety of utilities on my raspberry pi all using different programming languages. can you take the output of a C program and store it to a python variable for instance ?
[12:48] <shiftplusone> but it's sometimes best to just add another rendering engine and use native android stuff for the UI.
[12:49] <gordonDrogon> Munt, you can call C functions/subroutines from inside Python.
[12:49] <mgottschlag> Munt: yes, possible, you can start programs from python and capture input/output
[12:49] <gordonDrogon> that's how most of the Python libraries work AIUI.
[12:49] <shiftplusone> Munt, you can call C functions from python and you can redirect output of one application to another, for example.
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[12:51] <Munt> I have been trying to google that for a few days and got nothing i could use … where would you recommend (or what search term) should I look for beginners guide to call c funtions from inside python.
[12:52] <shiftplusone> http://csl.name/C-functions-from-Python/
[12:52] <mgottschlag> https://docs.python.org/2/library/ctypes.html
[12:52] <shiftplusone> https://docs.python.org/2/extending/extending.html
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[12:52] <Munt> many thanks folks !!
[12:53] <mgottschlag> or https://docs.python.org/2/library/subprocess.html to launch complete external programs
[12:54] <Munt> this could be very handy or me. I could use existing open-source C programs to send data to my python programs :D instead of having to write my own everytime.
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[13:06] <Jusii> that's one of the basic principles of *nix
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[13:07] <Jusii> make small programs to do one thing and make them do it well. then combine them to do more
[13:08] <Munt> seems wise …. but presumably its better practice to keep all the small programs in the same language ?
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[13:14] <gordonDrogon> well - oroginallythere was only C.
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[13:14] <gordonDrogon> (and assembler - under *nix that is)
[13:15] <gordonDrogon> then people wanted it easier/harder so all manner of languages are now avalable.
[13:15] <gordonDrogon> I even wrote my own recently too...
[13:15] <shiftplusone> Munt, not necessarily.
[13:15] <Munt> why’d you do that gordonDrogon ? For fun or necessity ?
[13:16] <gordonDrogon> it seemed like a good idea at the time...
[13:16] <Munt> hehe
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[13:16] <gordonDrogon> I actually wanted to re-run some old BASIC programs I wrote some 33 years back..
[13:16] <gordonDrogon> so I wrote a basic interpreter, but it's sort of grown.
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[13:17] <Munt> I have a client I do product videos for … he’s used to making BASIC programs but is trying to make them run on new hardware and is encountering some problems
[13:18] <Munt> I imagine his stuff is mainly CNC work and the like
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[13:18] <gordonDrogon> it all depends on the dialect of BASIC.
[13:18] <gordonDrogon> it's probably the most common, yet the most widley changed language...
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[13:19] <gordonDrogon> actually, it's not the most common - C is. However (visual) BASIC is more common than Python by all accounts.
[13:19] <shiftplusone> O_o
[13:20] <gordonDrogon> Munt, https://projects.drogon.net/rtb/
[13:20] <shiftplusone> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
[13:20] <gordonDrogon> I once wrote a complete CNC editor in BBC Basic.
[13:20] <shiftplusone> I say visual basic doesn't count
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[13:21] <shiftplusone> far from the most used
[13:21] <shiftplusone> far from on the radar, even.
[13:21] <Munt> haha it’s you! I have been on your sitea lot recently looking at your wiring information !
[13:22] <gordonDrogon> yea, that's me. https://projects.drogon.net/ and http://wiringpi.com/
[13:22] <gordonDrogon> you probably aren'r interested in http://moorbakes.co.uk/ so I won't mention it :)
[13:23] <shiftplusone> and on weekends, he fights crime.
[13:23] <Munt> I eat bread … made a few loaves in the oven and a few on the campfire before :p
[13:24] <gordonDrogon> everyone should learn how to make bread and (more importantly) what it needs to contain to make good bread.
[13:24] <Munt> kneeding’ll make a man outta anyone :p
[13:26] <gordonDrogon> you need an efficient kneading technique.
[13:27] <Munt> I’ve been using wiring to connect an 433 RF Reciever. I was getting the data out using 433Utils I found on a post online. Im still not sure what wiring is doing to allow the RFSniffer C applicaton to interpret the incoming RF signal.
[13:27] <gordonDrogon> I can knead up 3 lots of about 1.2Kg of dough in under 15 minutes by hand.
[13:28] <gordonDrogon> if the RF is just a bit-stream, then you can detect edges.
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[13:28] <gordonDrogon> most of these 433Mhz things are designed to be connected to a serial port.
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[13:29] <gordonDrogon> unless you're decoding some weird proprietary codes to some other kit.
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[13:29] <Munt> i spent a day trying to like them to the tx and rx of an arduino and a raspberry pi. i dont know if thefault was in my wiring or my coding but i got nothing until i used “WiringPi” and “433Utils” via a gpio pin
[13:30] <Munt> like - link *
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[13:31] <Munt> i have ordered some bluetooth modules to see if doing that is any easier :S
[13:31] <Munt> mainly i want to send data from the arduino to the pi to then host on a webserver
[13:32] <gordonDrogon> to do that, I've used the ciseco modules.
[13:32] <Munt> but it would be nice to have 2 way connunication. if all else fails I will abandon the wireless funtionality
[13:32] <gordonDrogon> they're like Xbee.
[13:32] <gordonDrogon> and 2-way works.
[13:32] <gordonDrogon> the Arduino side is a shield that connects to the ATmegas standard rx/tx pins.
[13:32] <gordonDrogon> the Pi side is a USB module - that looks just like a USB serial pont.
[13:32] <gordonDrogon> *port
[13:33] <Munt> for the pi i was hoping to get a bluetooth dongle that allows for a keyboard, mouse …. and my wirless arduinos
[13:33] <Munt> I’ve ordered the HC-05’s off ebay for hte arduino bluetooth side
[13:34] <gordonDrogon> I'm not sure what the state of bt is on the Pi - but it's standard Linux, so if it works on another Linux box it ought to work on the Pi.
[13:34] <gordonDrogon> personally not a fan of bt, but hey..
[13:34] <Munt> anything that works i’m down with :p
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[13:43] <aton`> does anyone know what causes an open udp port 12067? udp *:12067 *:* root -
[13:44] <aton`> ah sry nevermind, its dhclient
[13:44] <aton`> netstat doesnt show the process when not run suid root
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[14:42] <Brod> Munt look at nrf24l01+'s, they aren't full duplex but still manage 2 way by sending data piggy backed on an ack. Really cheap too
[14:44] <Brod> plus good libraries
[14:45] * Brod thinks we should figure out how to create a true network with them though..
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[14:47] <Munt> thank you Brod, I seen a fellow named Kevin Darrah talk about them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4JGDB7WtU)
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[14:50] * ChanServ sets mode +o IT_Sean
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[14:52] <Numline1> Hello gents, one quick question :) Will 900/1800/2100MHz anthena work ok with 868MHz?
[14:52] <Numline1> Thanks. Because I think it will but I'm trying to convince my friend with some hard evidence
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[14:56] <Munt> I can only offer that I think it will work as well. Based of the fragile evidence that a coat hanger works for TV’s
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[15:26] <Brod> haha ^
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[15:26] <Brod> exactly what I thought.
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[15:27] <Brod> night all'
[15:27] <shiftplusone> 'night
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[15:32] <IT_Sean> Numline1: It may work, but, it will not be ideal. For ideal performance, you want an antenna tuned to the frequency you are transmitting / receiving on.
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[15:34] <Numline1> IT_Sean, thank you :)
[15:35] <Numline1> IT_Sean, I'm currently looking for something that will work in 30MHz range in building with thick walls
[15:35] <Numline1> not sure what parameter should I look for
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[15:46] <Munt> I have a c++ program that printf’s the input from an RF sensor. Under python I can run the C code with “subprocess.Popen(['sudo ./RFSniffer','-1'],shell=True)” but how can I save the output to a variable/list ?
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[15:51] <mgottschlag> Munt: I think the documentation for subprocess said something about using pipes
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[15:52] <mgottschlag> yeah, you have to set stdout to use your own pipe
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[15:53] <Munt> muntvar = subprocess.Popen(['sudo ./RFSniffer','-1'],stdin=subprocess.PIPE,stdout=subprocess.PIPE,)
[15:53] <Munt> just yeilds errors
[15:53] <Munt> im sure I’m suing it wrongly
[15:53] <Munt> using *
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[15:53] <mgottschlag> what errors?
[15:53] <mgottschlag> " Popen.stdout If the stdout argument was PIPE, this attribute is a file object that provides output from the child process."
[15:55] <Munt> http://pastebin.com/QTJMfYs3 eorror
[15:55] <mgottschlag> oh, 'sudo ./RFSniffer','-1' probably should be 'sudo', './RFSniffer','-1'
[15:56] <mgottschlag> and I don't know whether sudo works like that, it probably wants a proper console
[15:56] <Munt> no errors using that syntax :D
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[15:57] <Munt> this stores <subprocess.Popen object at 0xb6ca9fb0> to “muntvar” now
[15:58] <mgottschlag> correct, now that object represents the process (which runs in parallel)
[15:58] <mgottschlag> as I quoted above, muntvar.stdout probably contains a file object which you can use to read the program's output
[15:59] <Munt> yes that looks correct muntvar.stdout gives “<open file '<fdopen>', mode 'rb' at 0xb6c9b910>”
[16:00] <Munt> do you know how I can retrieve the data from here ?
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[16:04] <Munt> print muntvar.stdout.read(1024) seems to be doing something useful
[16:04] <Munt> thanks for the help mgottschlag sir! much appreciated
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[16:49] <wip> anyone using autostatic repo (for audio stuff)?
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[17:07] <aton`> i got a 8 gb sd card and now bought a new 32 gb one. how are the chances that simply dd'ing the contents will work so that the new card is bootable?
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[17:07] <ShadowJK> should work
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[17:16] * Orion____ (~Orion_@205.118.211.29) has joined #raspberrypi
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[17:19] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:21] * Xethron (~Xethron@unaffiliated/xethron) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[17:21] * rdbell (~rdbell@99-100-152-93.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: rdbell)
[17:22] * linuxstb_ (~linuxstb@unaffiliated/linuxstb) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[17:22] * Squarepy (~Squarepy@unaffiliated/squarepy) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:22] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:23] * Syliss (~Home2@dpncorp1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[17:24] * Cheekio (~Cheekio@67.222.136.206) has left #raspberrypi
[17:24] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:25] * lazycoder (overdrive@linuxbrujo.net) has left #raspberrypi
[17:27] * Munt (~munt@host86-136-31-209.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Munt)
[17:27] * Munt (~munt@host86-136-31-209.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:32] * whatlad (~paul@cpc15-know13-2-0-cust162.17-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] <whatlad> hi pi
[17:33] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:35] * timatron (~tschwartz@cpe-76-168-57-133.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:38] <wip> how to use jackd2 from autostatic (compiled without dbus)
[17:38] * Synthead (~max@c-71-231-120-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[17:40] * saedelaere (~quassel@unaffiliated/saedelaere) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[17:43] * cave (~cave@gateway/tor-sasl/cave) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:44] * randt0sh (~tosh@2a02-8420-5d7e-c300-0213-72ff-feb1-7b24.rev.sfr.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[17:45] * randt0sh (~tosh@2a02-8420-5d7e-c300-18e1-1daf-01c6-4749.rev.sfr.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:45] * ponA (Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-148-191.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
[17:47] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:50] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:53] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:55] * rdbell (~rdbell@99-100-152-93.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:55] * picca (~picca@2.220.206.125) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:55] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:57] * [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:59] * closer (~eV9kqKUNT@jenkins.closure.jp) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:59] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:00] * wip (~wip@206.125.166.66) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:00] * picca (~picca@90.217.159.81) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:01] * closer (~eV9kqKUNT@jenkins.closure.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:03] * jhulten (~jhulten@c-174-61-252-243.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:04] * Syliss (~Home2@dpncorp1.digitalpath.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:04] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:05] * IT_Sean is now known as IT_Phood
[18:05] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:05] * applegekko (~applegekk@gateway/tor-sasl/applegekko) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:06] * Noldorin (~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:06] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:09] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-72-252.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:10] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:10] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:11] * PasNox (~pasnox@2a01:e35:8b61:9b30:e816:c073:14db:d07) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:11] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:12] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:12] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:14] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:15] * coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:18] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:20] * Datalink_ (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:21] * Datalink (Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:21] * chuck_f (~chuck_f@85.Red-83-33-47.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:22] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:22] * IT_Phood is now known as IT_Sean
[18:26] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-72-252.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Quit: tegila)
[18:26] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:27] * crucl0 (~alekzp@78.165.113.56) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:29] * XpineX (~XpineX@93-160-241-112-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:29] * Munt (~munt@host86-136-31-209.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Munt)
[18:29] * Vib3 (~Vibe@gateway/tor-sasl/vib3) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[18:29] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:30] * omgmog (~omgmog@213.218.193.198) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:31] * omgmog (~omgmog@213.218.193.198) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:32] <Bombo> http://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerHub The additional information column provides details as to whether the Raspberry Pi can be powered directly off the hub and if the hub “backfeeds” power to the Raspberry Pi.
[18:32] <Bombo> where is that column, am i blind?
[18:34] <Bombo> (i think i need a active usb hub with external power supply to get my edimax wifi to work)
[18:34] * Da_QuiK (~Da_QuiK@94-225-204-113.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[18:34] * Da_QuiK (~Da_QuiK@94-225-204-113.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:34] * mike_t (~mike@85.112.61.252) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:35] * Munt (~munt@host86-136-31-209.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:38] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:40] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:41] * erming (~shout_use@user39.77-105-223.netatonce.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:42] * jhulten (~jhulten@64.124.61.215) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:42] * FR^2 (~frquadrat@farsquare.de) Quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer)
[18:42] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:42] * lvispy (~luiz@179-125-137-118.desktop.com.br) Quit ()
[18:43] * michael_lee (~michael_l@117.22.204.215) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[18:45] * zer0rez (~Z@unaffiliated/zer0her0) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:45] * lowryder (~lowryder@pool-74-104-160-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:47] * CrackerJoe (~Crackerjo@188.251.181.28) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:48] * CrackerJoe (~Crackerjo@188.251.181.28) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:49] * nils2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:50] * Vibe (~Vibe@gateway/tor-sasl/vib3) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:51] * CrackerJoe (~Crackerjo@188.251.181.28) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:52] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:55] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:56] * nils2 is now known as nils_2
[18:59] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:01] * ponA (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-148-191.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:03] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:03] * MrMobius (~Joey@194.176.111.134) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:04] * oldskirt_ (~oldskirt@unaffiliated/frodenius) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:04] * MrMobius (~Joey@194.176.111.135) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:06] * cndiv (~cndiv@wikimedia/cdeubner) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:07] * oldskirt (~oldskirt@unaffiliated/frodenius) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[19:08] * PiZZaMaN2K (~PiZZaMaN2@unaffiliated/pizzaman2k) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:09] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:11] * IWishIKnew (~IWishIKne@ip68-224-135-32.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:13] * vcolombo_ (~vcolombo@38.106.143.234) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:13] * vcolombo_ (~vcolombo@38.106.143.234) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:15] * vcolombo_ (~vcolombo@204.13.200.248) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:16] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@cip-248.trustwave.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:17] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[19:20] * Shardvexz (~shardy@cpe-076-182-036-136.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:23] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:26] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:29] * Brod (~Brod@foresh2.lnk.telstra.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:30] * mowcius (~Rob@31.55.127.253) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:32] * Brod (~Brod@foresh2.lnk.telstra.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:34] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:35] * gerty_ (~gerty_@gateway/tor-sasl/gerty/x-53688199) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:36] * whatlad (~paul@cpc15-know13-2-0-cust162.17-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:36] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:36] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-36-83.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[19:40] * D9 (~Ron@ool-457b42e7.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:40] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:41] * divine (~divine@2001:470:8247:1::42) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:42] * mike_t (~mike@85.112.61.252) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:44] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:46] * gerty_ (~gerty_@gateway/tor-sasl/gerty/x-53688199) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:48] * PasNox_ (~pasnox@c3m33-1-88-182-25-179.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:48] * CDR` (~CDR@unaffiliated/cdr/x-4198819) Quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de ))
[19:48] * PasNox_ (~pasnox@c3m33-1-88-182-25-179.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:48] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:49] * PasNox_ (~pasnox@c3m33-1-88-182-25-179.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@172.56.33.40) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] * PasNox (~pasnox@2a01:e35:8b61:9b30:e816:c073:14db:d07) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:51] * mgottschlag (~mgottschl@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:55] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@172.56.33.40) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[19:56] * CDR` (~CDR@unaffiliated/cdr/x-4198819) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:57] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:57] * MrMobius (~Joey@194.176.111.135) Quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet)
[19:57] * Artpicre (~Artpicre@unaffiliated/artpicre) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[19:57] * MrMobius (~Joey@194.176.111.135) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:58] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:58] * AndrevS (~andrevs@2001:980:55e0:1:2e44:fdff:fe65:84ee) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:58] * MrMobius (~Joey@194.176.111.135) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:59] * FutureTense (~Michael@unaffiliated/futuretense) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:01] * omgmog (~omgmog@213.218.193.198) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[20:04] * vcolombo_ (~vcolombo@204.13.200.248) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:04] * kwrazi (~kwrazi@220-245-146-175.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:05] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:05] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@38.106.143.234) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:06] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@38.106.143.234) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:06] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@38.106.143.234) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:07] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:07] * SuperKoos (~User@unaffiliated/superkoos) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:07] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@38.106.143.234) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:08] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@cip-248.trustwave.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:08] * Visage (visage@pdpc/supporter/active/visage) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:10] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-72-252.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:11] * picca (~picca@90.217.159.81) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:13] * mowcius (~Rob@31.55.127.253) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:16] * omgmog (~omgmog@213.218.193.198) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:18] * erming (~shout_use@user39.77-105-223.netatonce.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:19] * malleYay (~malleYay@cable-78-34-20-187.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:21] * FutureTense (~Michael@unaffiliated/futuretense) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:22] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-72-252.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Quit: tegila)
[20:24] * Armand (~martin@185.24.99.51) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:24] * jonno11 (~jonno11@amigopod.rave.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:24] * Armand (~martin@185.24.99.51) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:26] * Artpicre (~Artpicre@unaffiliated/artpicre) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:29] * D9 (~Ron@ool-457b42e7.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:31] * Squarepy (~Squarepy@unaffiliated/squarepy) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:31] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:34] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:34] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:35] * malleYay (~malleYay@cable-78-34-20-187.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:35] * Visage (visage@pdpc/supporter/active/visage) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:38] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:41] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:42] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@207-170-205-178.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:42] * BluRaf (~BluRaf@093105042081.dynamic.vectranet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:43] * Datalink_ (Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:43] * robmorrissey (~robmorris@cpc26-brig15-2-0-cust123.3-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[20:44] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] * malleYay (~malleYay@cable-78-34-20-187.netcologne.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] * Datalink (Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:48] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[20:48] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:48] * RaptorJesus_ is now known as RaptorJesus
[20:49] * jiuweigui (~jiuweigui@unaffiliated/jiuweigui) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:52] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:53] * Shardvexz (~shardy@cpe-076-182-036-136.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:53] * KingPin (kingpin@bela.kpsn.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[20:54] * jonno11 (~jonno11@amigopod.rave.ac.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:56] * jonno11 (~jonno11@amigopod.rave.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] * KingPin (kingpin@bela.kpsn.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] * renderful (~renderful@ip72-204-146-49.no.no.cox.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:59] * cndiv (~cndiv@wikimedia/cdeubner) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:59] * zer0rez (~Z@unaffiliated/zer0her0) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzzzz...)
[21:01] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:03] * lvispy (~luiz@179-125-137-118.desktop.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:03] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:05] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:05] * Vibe (~Vibe@gateway/tor-sasl/vib3) Quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
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[21:53] <aton`> ShadowJK: thanks
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[22:08] <Sansveni> I'm new to assembly and am wondering how rounding works, e.g.: when logically shifting right (lsr) a number, called PinNum, by 5, storing it under PinBank, and then lsl PinBank by 2. (code here: http://pastebin.com/WbprSGAS). I get how it would divide a number (0-53) by 32 and then multipy it by 4, but don't understand the rounding. Why would a number from 0 to 31/32*4=0, and a num from 32 to 53/32 * 4 = 4 when all that's re
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[22:13] <rikkib> When you lsr or lsl zeros are shifted in the other side
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[22:14] <aton`> is there a visual tool to play around with the camera options like brightness etc.?
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[22:16] <Sansveni> So is lsr 3 by 5 equal to 0000011? And how would that convert back to decimal?
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[22:18] <rikkib> Possibly you want ror or rol rotate right and left
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[22:19] <rikkib> 11111111 lsr = 11111110
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[22:20] <Sansveni> I'm following a tutorial (at the pastebin) where the guy explains that lsr a number from 0-53 by 5, and then lsl'ing it by 2 (from what I can tell) causes all input numbers from 0-31 to end up being 0, and all 32-53 end up as 4.
[22:20] <rikkib> 11111110 lsl = 01111111
[22:20] <rikkib> oppps worg way
[22:20] <rikkib> but you see the idea
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[22:23] <Sansveni> So how is something divided by 32 the same as it being shifted right 5 times? I get that 2^5 is 32, but how does the decimal work into it? I mean, how is 3/32 the same as 0000011?
[22:26] <rikkib> Math has never been my strong point
[22:28] <Sansveni> It doesn't seem to be my strongest point either, I dunno.
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[22:38] <ppq> Sansveni, 3 decimal is 11 binary. shifting it right 5 times will give you 0.00011, which is in decimal 0*1/2 + 0*1/4 + 0*1/8 + 1*1/16 + 1*1/32 = 0.15625
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[22:39] <Sansveni> Whoops, I should've said decimal point.
[22:41] <Sansveni> Oh, so it doesn't literally add five zeroes to the left of 11 to shift it right 5?
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[22:43] <aton`> yes it does
[22:44] <aton`> shr 5, 00000011b -> 0b
[22:44] <aton`> if you integer divide 3 by 32 the result is 0
[22:45] <Sansveni> So 0000011 (base 2) gets rounded down to 0?
[22:45] <aton`> its not "rounded", its shifted
[22:45] <aton`> you lose the 1 bits
[22:46] <Sansveni> Lose?
[22:46] <aton`> they are shifted out at the right, thus lost
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[22:46] <Sansveni> Why are they lost when shifted to the right? Sorry, I'm still new to this.
[22:47] <aton`> thats what shifting does
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[22:48] <pksato> 00000010 -> 1 = 00000001 , 00000011 -> 10 = 00000000 (if is not a circular(?) shift)
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[22:48] <Sansveni> What does the -> mean? Hehe
[22:49] <aton`> resulting in
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[22:49] <aton`> if you have 0xf = 15 = 1111b, and you do a shr 3, then 1111b is shifted 3 times to the right: (1)111, 0(1)11, 00(1)1, 000(1)
[22:50] <pksato> or >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation#Bit_shifts
[22:50] <Sansveni> Huh, that's interesting!
[22:50] <aton`> in binary, if you shr 1, you divide by 2
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[22:51] <Sansveni> Oh...I think I see now...
[22:51] <aton`> perhaps decimal makes it easier: take the numer 4593. thats 4 thousand something. now shr 1: 0493. thats four hundred something. a zero appears from the left, while the 3 on the right gets lost
[22:52] <aton`> 0459*
[22:53] <Sansveni> It seems like in the assembly instructions that I saw for lsl, the number that got shifted *wasn't* lost...maybe that was because it didn't go through the end?
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[22:54] <Sansveni> I remember something about using logic gates to add/subtract, where you'd only get certain bits to work with, and if the number got too large, it was lost. Is that the same deal? Like you guys (aton` and pksato) both used examples that were for bits/digits long.
[22:54] <aton`> well if you take a larger number: 11100000b and you shr 5 that you get 00000111b, nothing lost
[22:55] <Sansveni> If I had a register that were bigger than the shift, nothing is lost?
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[22:55] <aton`> the point is, you do integer math here opposed to float math. float: 3/5 = 0.6. but 0.6 doesnt exist in integers. so 3/5 = 0 (remainder: 3)
[22:56] <aton`> if you shift right, that remainder gets lost
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[22:56] <aton`> if your number can be divided without remainder, nothing gets lost
[22:57] <Sansveni> Thanks guys, I think I'm understanding it more, hehe.
[22:57] <aton`> you should read about modulo
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[22:57] <aton`> (int)3/5=0; (int)3%5=3
[22:58] <aton`> 7/5=1; 7%5=2
[22:58] <Sansveni> So 31 in binary is 11111, and if I lsr by 5, I get 0 (everything's lost) but 32 is 100000 in binary, so lsr 5 gets a 1! And anything up to 111111 gets a 1! I get it now!
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[22:59] <aton`> correct
[22:59] <Sansveni> I know that there's a modulo operator in Python...it must be related to all this.
[23:00] <Sansveni> Wow, thanks. My brain was hurting really badly before, hehe.
[23:00] <aton`> there is a modulo operator in 99% of the programming languages
[23:00] <aton`> and on every scientific calculator
[23:00] <Sansveni> I meant that's where I first heard of it, but hadn't thought there was a connection.
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[23:00] <Squarepy> import operator;operator.mod
[23:01] <aton`> think about division like this: x/y means "how often does y fit completely into x?". x%y means "if you keep subtracting y from x until x is small than y, how big is x? (=remainder)"
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[23:04] <Sansveni> I wonder how finding the remainder is done with assembly, hm...the guy who wrote Baking Pi used "and." I know that "and" in boolean logic means that if two inputs are true (1) then the output is true (1) else 0,...
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[23:05] <aton`> look at it in binary
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[23:10] <Sansveni> Oh okay, so binary and (bitwise and I guess) takes two binary numbers of equal length, compares each bit to the other, and only returns a number that had 1s in both numbers. So 1101 and 0110 (not sure how to write it) would return 0100.
[23:10] <aton`> after doing the div, (depending on the size of your source) you will find the remainder in ah or dx
[23:11] <aton`> thats correct
[23:11] <Sansveni> ah, dx?
[23:11] <aton`> stuff like division is done by the processor
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[23:11] <aton`> div instruction
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[23:12] <Sansveni> So the guy finds the remainder of a number divided by 32 by taking the and of that number and 31...
[23:12] <aton`> you dont need to "find" it, the processor puts it into a register for you
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[23:14] <aton`> if you have a byte value: mov al, $3 and then divide it: div $2 you will get the result in al and the remainder in ah
[23:14] <Sansveni> Ah, so, when the processor does division, it puts the remainder in a register.
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[23:14] <Sansveni> Cool.
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[23:15] <Sansveni> Apparently division takes longer than doing a lsr and he chose lsr because it div $32 (?) happened to be lsl 5, but he had to find the remainder himself.
[23:18] <Sansveni> But I think that was a special case...I wonder why div takes longer?
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[23:19] <aton`> well in the special kind of doing a division by a power of 2, you can get the remainder with AND
[23:19] <aton`> special case*
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[23:20] <aton`> look at it in binary: 21 = 10101b
[23:20] <aton`> 21/16 = 1, remainder 5
[23:20] <aton`> 5 = 101b
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[23:21] <Sansveni> Huh, interesting....
[23:22] <aton`> so if you do 21 shr 4 = 1 (the quotient) and 21 AND 4 = 5 (the remainder)
[23:22] <aton`> btw thats just playing around, not really useful for anything
[23:22] <aton`> if you want to code assembly, use div
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[23:23] <Sansveni> Huh, wow.
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[23:24] <aton`> but tbh, i'd drop assembly and learn c. that covers enough mathematics and bit shifting stuff to understand the concept. asm is not really useful nowadays
[23:25] <Sansveni> I guess in the grand scheme of things, a few microseconds isn't going to matter, especially if you're going to need the processor to waste time to wait anyway?
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[23:25] <Sansveni> That's too bad.
[23:26] <aton`> you have a chance of 99.9999% of not hitting the need to optimise your code in assembly :P
[23:26] <Sansveni> I've wanted to make OSes and realise that needs a lot of skill sets, but I always wondered HOW things worked.
[23:26] <aton`> the c compilers are good at optimising
[23:27] <Sansveni> Ah, and OSes seem to be written almost all in C. Many of them at least.
[23:28] <Sansveni> Wouldn't learning asm be useful at least for learning the inards?
[23:28] <aton`> not really, you get that with c
[23:28] <aton`> there is no need to know how many instructions some intel or amd opcode takes on your processor
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[23:29] <aton`> what i am trying to say, c is low level enough to give you frustration for 3 lives
[23:30] <Sansveni> I read this fascinating story (from decades ago) where half a system accidentally got rm -r * ran, (including /bin) and they had to cobble the system back together (just a story though).
[23:31] <Squarepy> Sansveni, sounds like you got a lot of books to read
[23:31] <Squarepy> :)
[23:31] <Sansveni> Ah...at first I was thinking, "This would be really useful for getting stuff to work with new architectures" (porting maybe) but I guess as long as you have a C compiler in that architecture, you're good to go?
[23:31] <Sansveni> Yeah, hehe.
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[23:32] <Squarepy> C has its purposes, one of them not being secure code
[23:33] <aton`> c lets you you do stuff that can result in unexpected behaviour, yes
[23:34] <Squarepy> I would say C is too powerfull for devs with limited capacity to write watertight code
[23:34] <Squarepy> hence openssl :)
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[23:34] <Sansveni> I guess I'm trying to teach myself programming, but I get boggled down alot.
[23:35] <aton`> the choice of programming language depends on what you want to code
[23:35] * vifino (~vifino@ip-176-198-144-221.unitymediagroup.de) Quit (Quit: Me sais Laptop sleepy.)
[23:35] <Sansveni> Openssl?
[23:35] * Albori (~Albori@64-15-82-197.fidnet.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:35] <Squarepy> there is no choice, only the first choice and the second choice language and then the third etc.
[23:36] <Squarepy> Sansveni, remember heartbleed :)
[23:36] <Sansveni> Squarepy, speaking of reading...what would you suggest?
[23:36] <aton`> c programming
[23:37] <Sansveni> I'm 72% through Codecademy's Python (i.e. after the lists, functions, dictionaries, etc... but before classes and bit-wise operators), thinking I want to learn C and bash scripting, and want to learn assembly.
[23:38] <Squarepy> I would suggest 'the soul of a new machine', about the spirit of technological development, Sansveni, some light reading on the side of all your hard work :)
[23:39] <aton`> Sansveni: C Programming - a modern approach (K.N. King) is a very good book
[23:40] <aton`> finish the python tutorial first though and forget about bash and assembly :P
[23:40] <aton`> if you need 3 lines of bash you can google it or ask in #bash
[23:40] <Sansveni> Thanks for those two suggestions.
[23:41] <aton`> if you need 3 lines of assembly then you are doing something wrong
[23:41] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
[23:41] <Squarepy> sure
[23:42] <Sansveni> Hm...what about repackaging software for different OSes/distros?
[23:42] <aton`> that not programming
[23:42] <Sansveni> I installed Slackware (frustrating but learnt a ton), and they have these Slackbuild scripts...
[23:42] * lvispy (~luiz@iewlan140.eco.unicamp.br) Quit ()
[23:43] <Squarepy> from floppy I hope
[23:43] <Squarepy> :p
[23:43] <aton`> lol
[23:43] <Sansveni> Yeah, but I figured that would be necessary in my outlandish quest to build an OS, first by understanding one.
[23:43] <Sansveni> xD no...
[23:44] <aton`> Sansveni: there is a good book about building an os, "An operating systems vade mecum": ftp://ftp.cs.uky.edu/cs/manuscripts/vade.mecum.2.pdf
[23:44] <Sansveni> It took me two to three days just to figure out how to install it, and get it to work with LVM, because I couldn't config LILO right...
[23:45] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[23:45] <Squarepy> Sansveni, if you are serious on the OS front I found Andrew Tanenbaum's book quite readable
[23:45] <Squarepy> little dated of course
[23:46] <Sansveni> That C programming book, I'm thinking maybe first edition, 'cause it's a lot cheaper.
[23:46] <aton`> you wont have to read many pages to understand that creating operating systems is years(tens of years) away
[23:47] <aton`> yea, first edition will do
[23:47] <Squarepy> well maybe something like MikeOS
[23:47] <Sansveni> I wonder if I should try to finish this first: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/index.html (the explanations are a bit...conclusion jumping for me).
[23:48] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[23:48] <Sansveni> aton`, ah okay, cool.
[23:49] <Sansveni> Which one is Tanenbaum's?
[23:51] <Sansveni> Wow, he wrote a lot of books.
[23:51] <aton`> Sansveni: you will waste a lot of time with that os idea. after 2 month you will be able to print a character to the screen. reinventing the wheel sometimes doesnt make as happy as building your own car...
[23:51] * double-you (~Miranda@178-26-33-138-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: ja)
[23:51] <Squarepy> modern OS, it is quite readable and informative, no need to write your own as aton` seems to suggest :)
[23:51] <Munt> does anyone know how to not break a loop in python when str2 in str1.index(str2) is not found ?
[23:52] <Squarepy> Munt seems we need to see the full code or error
[23:52] <Munt> my python code exits with “ValueError: substring not found”
[23:53] <Sansveni> Yeah, you're probably right. I at least want to understand the Linux kernel, then the NT kernel. But these resources are really neat. I guess you're right, aton'. It took me two months to get the ACT led to blink on and off xD (albeit there were issues).
[23:53] <Munt> it works as intended … but I dont want the code to quit when it can find the substring
[23:53] <aton`> Sansveni: python was a very good choice to do most of the stuff you want to do. if you want to get deeper, learn c and code some low level stuff. any deeper will only hurt and you will not benefit.
[23:53] <Munt> cant*
[23:54] <aton`> yea, do a linux kernel module in c, but thats about it
[23:54] <aton`> you dont need to write your own c compiler
[23:54] <Munt> http://pastebin.com/4cuhXNNZ is the code
[23:54] <aton`> munt: catch the valueError exception
[23:55] <Munt> aton`: sounds good, how do i implement that ?
[23:55] <aton`> hah!
[23:55] <Squarepy> Munt, apply a "try: your search except ValueError: to catch the ValueError exception
[23:55] <aton`> https://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/errors.html
[23:56] <aton`> exceptions are powerful, its worth investing time in learning them well
[23:56] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[23:56] <Munt> so stick my code in a try: and add a except ValueError:
[23:56] <Munt> i’ll try it :D
[23:56] <Munt> ty folks !!
[23:57] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:57] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[23:57] <Sansveni> Thanks for the advice guys. I think I wanted to know too much, perhaps it's better to know useful skills first before learning the deeper stuff. I'm going to try to get into college next fall, so that should help.
[23:58] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:58] <aton`> if you want to learn low level stuff a bit, try a few wargames, keeps you motivated ;)
[23:58] <Brod> morning all
[23:59] * jhulten_ (~jhulten@64.124.61.215) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:59] * tigar (~tigar@141-138-16-124.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:59] <Sansveni> low-level wargames? O.o

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