#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2014-07-21

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:02] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] * Aergan (~Aergan@host109-157-32-105.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[0:28] * mentar (~quassel@ec2-54-194-89-200.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:30] * Drevkevac_AFK is now known as Drevkevac
[0:32] * rambo123456` (~user@c-50-150-79-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:35] * Spice_Boy (~me@CPE-124-177-127-41.lns5.woo.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:50] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:50] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[0:51] * Tenchworks (~none@unaffiliated/tenchworks) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:58] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
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[0:59] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * mikepparks (~mikeppark@173-228-71-193.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:59] <snuggyfoo> Does anyone here successfully run 'pianobar'?
[1:00] <[Saint]> Its a whole lot easier if you ask the question you actually wan tot know the answer to directly.
[1:00] <cslcm> Why do I never wash my underwear?
[1:01] * RaptorJesus__ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:01] <Tenchworks> I'm in the middle of upgrading debian squeeze -> wheezy on my RPi and am noticing that dpkg is every so often running into folders it can't delete becuase they aren't empty, should I be concerned over these errors?
[1:02] <[Saint]> Whoah...from squeeze to wheezy?
[1:02] <[Saint]> How old is that image?!?
[1:02] <Tenchworks> uhhhhhh, june 2012 i think
[1:02] <[Saint]> Uuuuhuh. Wow.
[1:02] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:03] <[Saint]> And, no, not necessarily.
[1:03] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[1:03] <[Saint]> Its just complaining that there's config files laying around I would guess.
[1:03] <ShorTie> i'd start over from a fresh image
[1:03] <[Saint]> Worry if it falls over.
[1:03] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:03] <[Saint]> And, yeah, I'd probably consider a fresh image myself.
[1:04] <Tenchworks> I'll browse them later when the upgrade is done then
[1:04] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] <[Saint]> Backup $home if you want/need to.
[1:04] <ShorTie> http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian_latest
[1:04] <Tenchworks> and yeah if it hangs/dies on me then my concerns will shoot out my chest
[1:04] * linuxstb is impressed Tenchworks has had an SD card working for two years without corrupting
[1:04] <[Saint]> linuxstb: I'm coming up on 1y 1m one one pi at work.
[1:05] * jedahan (~jedahan@subtle/user/jedahan) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
[1:05] * Aergan (~Aergan@host109-157-32-45.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] <[Saint]> Personal best so far.
[1:05] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] <[Saint]> (it runs a TINY Arch/Busybox RAMdisk image, though)
[1:06] <Tenchworks> as for the old image, now that I think of it it's older than june... june was the last backup I did once I was done setting it up
[1:06] * RaptorJesus__ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:06] <[Saint]> I guess this old girl doesn't see much work?
[1:07] <Tenchworks> I had spent a considerable amount of time back then setting it up and once I was done she was put up in a undisturbed aware to put-put away
[1:08] * Aergan (~Aergan@host109-157-32-45.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[1:08] <Tenchworks> it acts a a file server, torrent box, music player amonst a few other things
[1:09] * raleigh (~raleigh@71-85-128-19.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:09] <Tenchworks> once I got it to stop crashing from running the mirror raid on the hard disks it's serving up, it kinda was a set it and forget thing
[1:16] <ShorTie> my bet is upgrading from squeeze -> wheezy will break atleast 1 thing, but that is just mho
[1:16] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:16] <[Saint]> Bwahahahahahah!
[1:16] <[Saint]> Good one, Reddit.
[1:17] <[Saint]> "Wah wah wah...someone can pick up my phone and change my Google account password. Wahhh!"
[1:17] <[Saint]> "Oh, you mean, the one that you authorized full access to your account, and didn't use a secure lockscreen on? Or 2-step auth? That one? Yeah...poor baby."
[1:18] * [Saint] is not a very nice man sometimes
[1:19] <[Saint]> errr...
[1:19] <[Saint]> s/some/most /
[1:19] * RaptorJesus__ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:19] * SiC (~Simon@cpc12-aztw24-2-0-cust193.aztw.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:20] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:20] * MidnighToker (~Toker@unaffiliated/midnightoker) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:20] <[Saint]> Oh sweet FSM, save me.
[1:21] <[Saint]> "Everyone knows the Android lockscreen is only there to prevent butt-dialing"
[1:21] <[Saint]> :-/
[1:22] <[Saint]> Riiiiight. Its certainly not there to protect my personal and corporate mail accounts. Nope.
[1:22] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:24] * utack (~utack@mnch-5d867a2d.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
[1:26] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:28] * phantoxeD (destroy@a89-154-119-158.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:30] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:32] <Tenchworks> too bad there's no way to tell how much progress has been made
[1:32] <Tenchworks> been going for more than an hour but no clue how far into it it is
[1:33] * iceCalt_ (~iceCalt@p5DDCFAE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:33] <[Saint]> That's where pacman is clearly superior.
[1:33] <[Saint]> verbose package output ftw.
[1:33] <Tenchworks> I guess it should be expected though, was 500-600 something packages to update
[1:33] * Aergan (~Aergan@host109-157-32-45.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] <[Saint]> I _think_ there's a verbose output flag for apt.
[1:33] <[Saint]> But, its too late now.
[1:34] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:34] <Tenchworks> hehe, yeah.... way too late now
[1:34] <[Saint]> In this instance, personally, I would've started fresh. But, live and learn.
[1:35] <[Saint]> In future, you can create a seperate /$home partition to make this a LOT easier.
[1:35] <[Saint]> Nuke all the image, but leave $home intact
[1:35] <Tenchworks> normally I do just burn and reload but this is one of the rare times I care about the installation
[1:35] * Aergan (~Aergan@host109-157-32-45.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[1:36] <[Saint]> I'd posit that /most/ of the configs you care about are in $home/.config
[1:36] <ShorTie> that is what they make more then 1 sdcard, hehe
[1:36] <Tenchworks> though this is the first linux install I ever cared about
[1:36] * MY123 (uid37100@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-etxyppktgrilzapo) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[1:37] <Tenchworks> if I do go with a fresh install, I'd need to note what packages I running and which ones messed with to suit my needs
[1:38] <Tenchworks> then burning the install and restarting wouldn't be such an issue
[1:39] <[Saint]> run "comm -23 <(apt-mark showmanual | sort -u) <(gzip -dc /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package: //p' | sort -u)"
[1:39] * PKodon (~PKodon@unaffiliated/pkodon) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:40] <[Saint]> That'll list anything *you* installed explicitely.
[1:41] * m1nus (~m1nus@c-76-30-2-194.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:41] <Tenchworks> i'll make a note of that
[1:41] * [Saint] has kept that snippet lying around for years and has seen it repasted in a LOT of obscure places
[1:41] <[Saint]> Its so badly written I doubt anyone else came up with it independantly.
[1:41] <[Saint]> But, its possible.
[1:42] * eXtremo (~eXtremo@unaffiliated/extremo) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:42] <[Saint]> Looking at it now, its rather inefficient.
[1:42] <[Saint]> But, meh. It works.
[1:42] * eXtremo (~eXtremo@unaffiliated/extremo) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:46] <Tenchworks> i'm casually think of maybe buying a new pi to replace this one, the extra ram would allow me to raise the limits I had to set on a few things
[1:46] <blockh34d> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=82409 <- reasonable post?
[1:46] <[Saint]> alias apt_what_have_I_installed="comm -23 <(apt-mark showmanual | sort -u) <(gzip -dc /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package: //p' | sort -u) && echo "...you have installed this"
[1:48] <Tenchworks> glancing at it, seems fine to me
[1:49] * Sauvin (~Savinus@about/linux/staff/sauvin) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:49] <[Saint]> dat UI tho...
[1:49] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:50] * snuggyfoo (~ares@ has left #raspberrypi
[1:50] <[Saint]> blockh34d: considered using pipes instead of brackets for the "bottun" end caps?
[1:50] <blockh34d> [Saint]: suggested improvements?
[1:50] <[Saint]> the rounding looks kinda terrible.
[1:50] <[Saint]> see above. :)
[1:50] <[Saint]> *button
[1:50] <blockh34d> hmm yah thats a good idea
[1:51] <blockh34d> i'll give that a try when i can
[1:51] * aural (~aural@unaffiliated/necrodearia) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:51] <blockh34d> which buttons do you like better, the ones with dashed outlines at the bottom, or the solid outlined ones up top?
[1:51] <[Saint]> solid, personally.
[1:51] <blockh34d> ah ok, i thought the dashed ones were maybe a bit more readable
[1:52] <blockh34d> but they dont look as much like buttons to me
[1:52] <[Saint]> A few of the full width separators look kinda superfluous.
[1:52] <blockh34d> the horizontal lines?
[1:52] * [Saint] nods
[1:52] <blockh34d> yah i think i should get rid of some of those
[1:52] * [Saint] nods again
[1:52] <blockh34d> thats on the list
[1:52] <blockh34d> hey thanks a lot for the input
[1:52] <blockh34d> anything else?
[1:53] <[Saint]> Its a very cute UI. Its just a bit visually cluttered.
[1:53] <blockh34d> yah keeping it simple is #1 priority
[1:53] <blockh34d> #2 and #3 too actually
[1:53] * RaptorJesus__ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:53] <blockh34d> so easy to get a UI too cluttered to be worth using
[1:54] <[Saint]> The playlist_name->ASCII art header is cute.
[1:54] <blockh34d> hah thanks, i have figlet to thank for that
[1:54] <blockh34d> finally, something useful to do with figlet!
[1:55] <[Saint]> I used to use TAAG or Toilet.
[1:55] <[Saint]> Primarily the latter.
[1:55] <blockh34d> havent tried those yet
[1:55] <blockh34d> are they like figlet?
[1:55] <[Saint]> (linux package names...heh)
[1:56] <[Saint]> Yeah. Reasonably similar. But toilet will ASCIIify pretty much anything you feed it.
[1:56] <blockh34d> yeah its all i can do to keep my choice of names g rated
[1:56] <blockh34d> ah yeah i wrote something like that myself
[1:56] <blockh34d> i like the job my version did
[1:56] <blockh34d> no screenshots available but it did a pretty epic job of jpg->ascii
[1:57] <blockh34d> i actually made a pretty cool tshirt design with it, of a skull made out of 1's and 0's
[1:57] <blockh34d> tried to get a kickstarter going for it so i could make the hsirts but couldnt hit my funding goal
[1:57] <blockh34d> of course potato salad guy, less than a mile away, that guy gets what, $50k USD to make potato salad? figures...
[1:58] <[Saint]> These days I'd be wary about associating anything I cared about deeply with Kickstarter.
[1:58] <[Saint]> They're getting a bit of a reputation.
[1:58] <[Saint]> And, not a good one.
[1:58] <blockh34d> yah i think its being attacked
[1:58] <blockh34d> by people trying to slam the reputation
[1:58] <[Saint]> They repeatedly fail to close out BLATANT scams.
[1:58] <blockh34d> so they create stupid things like potato salad projects
[1:58] <[Saint]> 'cos...money.
[1:58] <blockh34d> then they fund it so much its offensive
[1:58] <blockh34d> just to make sure everyone knows 'kickstarter is stupid'
[1:59] <[Saint]> They repeatedly fail to ensure that people marketing meet the basic requirements they set, as well.
[1:59] <[Saint]> ie. a functional prototype.
[1:59] <blockh34d> yah i bet
[1:59] <[Saint]> A lot of the stuff on there is blatantly and obviously a scam, and/or voodoo, but, they don;t seem to care.
[1:59] <[Saint]> At all.
[1:59] <blockh34d> it seems like its mostly a way for rich kids to give each other money but still feel like they're donating to charity or something
[1:59] <blockh34d> what would you suggest instead? indygogo?
[1:59] <[Saint]> To me it seems like a portal for scam artists.
[2:00] <[Saint]> "Hey, I invented this. Give me money"
[2:00] <[Saint]> ...
[2:00] <blockh34d> is there any way i can make some income with this?
[2:00] <blockh34d> i'm so broke
[2:00] <[Saint]> "Oh, yeah, didn't work out...sorry bout that. Thabnks for the money tho"
[2:00] <[Saint]> #kickstarterinanutshell
[2:00] <blockh34d> seriously my yearly income is less than 5k
[2:00] * aural (~aural@unaffiliated/necrodearia) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:00] <blockh34d> probably much less
[2:01] <blockh34d> i keep hoping theres some magic raspberry pi funding group sitting on a stack of money looking for people doing what i'm working on and funding it
[2:01] <[Saint]> There's only two ways I see you making income of thiss, hold on a sec while I type them out:
[2:01] <blockh34d> but i think i might as well look for unicorns
[2:01] <blockh34d> k
[2:01] <[Saint]> 1 - load it up with advertising intents
[2:01] <blockh34d> not happenign
[2:01] <[Saint]> 2 - hold features hostage
[2:01] <[Saint]> (ie. subscription services)
[2:02] <blockh34d> what about this for #2
[2:02] <[Saint]> There's also:
[2:02] <[Saint]> 3 - beg for donations
[2:02] <blockh34d> two versions of app, free (up to date as of X monthes ago, mabye 3 or 6), then pay, which is most up to date (yesterday)
[2:02] <blockh34d> #3 doesnt work
[2:02] <blockh34d> for me
[2:02] <[Saint]> But the people using this are likely more broke than you are.
[2:02] <blockh34d> i dunno i'm pretty broke even by 'third world' standards
[2:03] <blockh34d> i hate that term btw
[2:03] * Syliss (~Home2@dpncorp1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[2:03] <[Saint]> The other option is giving away a basic, limited, free version. And having a "pay what you want to", full version.
[2:03] <blockh34d> maybe i could get some kickstarter money to fund me porting it to x86?
[2:04] <blockh34d> i dunno i think i'm just always going to be broke
[2:04] <blockh34d> i'm not interested in forcibly extracting money from anyone
[2:04] <blockh34d> might as well carjack old ladies.
[2:04] * tx is now known as UltimateTx
[2:04] <blockh34d> at least when i'm gone there will be someting of me left
[2:04] <[Saint]> The main issue I see with this is there needs to be a clear reason why someone would want to use this over the many other widely known applications of incredibly similar function.
[2:05] <blockh34d> i contributed to earth!
[2:05] <blockh34d> [Saint]: i think theres a few good reasons
[2:05] <blockh34d> it generally runs better since it doesnt need fancy bevelse tc
[2:05] <[Saint]> Right. But, and no offense here, you're more than slightly biased. ;)
[2:05] <blockh34d> for example, scanned in a folder with 2k+ songs and 150 sub folders in less than 2 seconds
[2:06] <blockh34d> plays up to 3 1080p videos at once
[2:06] * The_HunterT (~pi@c-98-253-186-186.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:06] <blockh34d> can control it from X, outside of X, or from SSH (and soon, from HTTP)
[2:06] <blockh34d> other stuff not worth typing out too
[2:06] <blockh34d> better than openelec because you can use it along with other stuff
[2:07] <blockh34d> better than xbmc (in at least one way) because it can actually play 1080p smoothly
[2:07] <blockh34d> i've heard a lot of people say XBMC has performance issues
[2:07] <blockh34d> scamp does not
[2:07] <[Saint]> WFM
[2:07] <blockh34d> WFM?
[2:07] <blockh34d> i dont know that one
[2:07] <[Saint]> Works For Me
[2:07] <[Saint]> re: XBMC
[2:08] <blockh34d> oh ok. YAh people tell me xbmc has less than stellar performance
[2:08] <blockh34d> i should try it i guess but i like to use my mediaplayers while i do other stuff
[2:08] <blockh34d> that seems incompatible with many of the other options
[2:09] * UltimateTx is now known as tx
[2:09] <blockh34d> can XBMC play one 1080p video, one mp3 dj-set/radio stream, and one video-stream (or other 1080p video), overlaid over the first in a smaller window like tv-in-tv? Scamp can. easily.
[2:10] <blockh34d> all while running IRSSI, geany and luakit actually
[2:10] <blockh34d> although after a while you run out of screen sapce, heh
[2:10] * tx (~texta@pdpc/supporter/professional/texta) has left #raspberrypi
[2:10] <[Saint]> I dunno. Like most people, I use my media center like normal people do. ie. not doing several things at once.
[2:11] <[Saint]> ie. I'll watch a film, or listen to audio, or stream internet radio...
[2:11] <blockh34d> you should try that way i described, its kinda addictive
[2:11] <[Saint]> but, not all at the same time. :)
[2:11] <blockh34d> but i've already seen all the videos
[2:11] <blockh34d> i'm bored of them, its just background noise with occasional punchlines
[2:11] <blockh34d> music spices it up a bit
[2:12] <blockh34d> well hey thanks a lot for discussing the subject with me a bit
[2:12] <blockh34d> this helps me come up with ideas and plans for more improvment
[2:13] <blockh34d> i think what i'll work on next is:
[2:13] <blockh34d> integrated support for youtube-dl, so you can paste in a youtube link and it takes it over from there
[2:13] * MrMobius (~Joey@178.sub-70-198-193.myvzw.com) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[2:13] * MrM0bius (~Joey@c-71-206-218-187.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:13] <blockh34d> helper windows so you can resize/move the subwindowed playback window around without changing a config file
[2:14] <blockh34d> plugins for things like popcorn time, maybe an integratted torrent client
[2:14] <blockh34d> and of course translating it into more languages
[2:15] <blockh34d> then if i get all that working as planned, i have an idea to use OpenGLES2 to skin the interface for a true GUI experience
[2:15] <blockh34d> thats when scamp will look better than everyone else, probably will look comparable to xbmc at that point
[2:15] <[Saint]> You already use omxplayer, right? The YouTube bit should be bloody easy. Something like "/omxplayer $(youtube-dl -g /your/URL/goes/here)"
[2:15] <blockh34d> it wont look bettr than xbmc
[2:15] <blockh34d> that app is *gorgeous*
[2:15] <blockh34d> right but the point of scamp is to avoid typing stuff like that
[2:16] <blockh34d> it annoys me, i want basic, simple operation
[2:16] <blockh34d> for example, to add files now, you can select files in filemanager, copy, and then in scamp, paste... bam, queued up
[2:16] <blockh34d> it could not be much easier
[2:17] <[Saint]> adding copy/paste support for that would be very trivial.
[2:17] <[Saint]> Incredibly so.
[2:17] <blockh34d> for what? the weird long omxplayer line?
[2:17] * raleigh (~raleigh@71-85-128-19.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:17] * [Saint] nods
[2:17] <blockh34d> yah its already in scamp
[2:18] <blockh34d> just gotta identify the urls a little differently than it handles other urls now
[2:19] <blockh34d> maybe a audio extraction plugin would be useful? its just another line of parameters to ffmpeg
[2:19] <blockh34d> besides, using omxplayer like that is kinda weaksauce i think
[2:19] <[Saint]> One thing I'll say right now, is this:
[2:19] <blockh34d> omxplayer really needs a way to toggle fullscreen mid playback
[2:20] <[Saint]> Feature creep is NOT your friend.
[2:20] <blockh34d> actually theres all kinds of stuff it needs
[2:20] <blockh34d> ?
[2:20] <blockh34d> i dont understand why that owuld be the case
[2:20] <blockh34d> its not making you coffee or walking the dog
[2:20] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:21] <[Saint]> While its tempting to add this, and that, and this, and that other thing...get it doing what it does already right, and beautifully, and simply.
[2:21] <blockh34d> sure, but thats as done as i can get it, in curses anyways
[2:21] <[Saint]> Otherwise you'll end up with a tonne of half-baked addons and a constantly unfinished project.
[2:21] <blockh34d> when i can reskin the interface in opengl, it'll look like UI porn
[2:22] <blockh34d> hmm well thats a good point
[2:22] <[Saint]> Users are scared of swiss army knife type applications, generally speaking.
[2:22] <blockh34d> can you see anything in scamp that jumps out at you as half-done like that?
[2:22] <[Saint]> They want an application that does the one thing it does well.
[2:22] <blockh34d> hmm
[2:22] <blockh34d> i dunno about that, i mean it sounds good but i dont know
[2:22] <blockh34d> if that was the case, no one would ever install my app
[2:22] <blockh34d> since all it does is what omxplayer already did
[2:23] <blockh34d> it just saves you a bunch of typing
[2:23] <[Saint]> A project I'm heavily involved in is pretty much the swiss army knife of digital audio player firmware, and, conventional users are scared witless by it.
[2:23] <blockh34d> i think its the word 'firmware'
[2:23] <blockh34d> people arent afraid of fruityloops
[2:23] <blockh34d> and that app has got feature creep out the wazoo
[2:24] <[Saint]> rockbox.org
[2:24] <[Saint]> that's us.
[2:25] <[Saint]> a lot of the ARM ffmpeg optimizations were backported from Rockbox. Kinda cute.
[2:25] * Benguin is now known as Benguin[ZzZ]
[2:25] <[Saint]> Our codecs have been extensively ARM optimized.
[2:25] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2:26] <SirLagz> [Saint]: oooo fancy
[2:26] <[Saint]> There's even an SDL app. :)
[2:26] <SirLagz> [Saint]: also, Morning ! :)
[2:26] <blockh34d> [Saint]: i dont think its feature creep thats scaring people off your app
[2:26] <[Saint]> o/
[2:26] <blockh34d> i'm hip deep in all this stuff and honestly i have no idea what it does
[2:27] <blockh34d> what does your app do?
[2:27] <blockh34d> it doesnt even sound like an app, more like mabye drivers or something like that? i really dont know
[2:28] <[Saint]> Its a complete firmware replacement for many models of digital audio player, or, an SDL based desktop player, or, a hosted application.
[2:28] <Tenchworks> SUDDENLY A BASH PROMPT!
[2:28] <Tenchworks> now to see if it will reboot...
[2:29] <[Saint]> Runs on Android, Maemo, Windows, Linux, Open Pandora, and a craptonne of other obscure platforms.
[2:29] <blockh34d> [Saint]: i think you're losing people at 'firmware replacement'
[2:29] <SirLagz> [Saint]: nice
[2:29] <blockh34d> sounds too much like 'lets reflash your bios and brick your device'
[2:29] <[Saint]> On digital audio players, its a complete firmware replacement that allows dualboot.
[2:29] <[Saint]> Nope.
[2:30] <[Saint]> That's largely impossible.
[2:30] <blockh34d> yah naturally, that'd be quite fubar
[2:30] <blockh34d> but just initial impressions, teh way you describe it, thats what i picture
[2:31] <blockh34d> maybe you could find a different way to describe it
[2:31] <[Saint]> We get about 5K unique downloads a week.
[2:31] <blockh34d> nice
[2:31] <[Saint]> I think we're doing pretty well.
[2:31] <blockh34d> i'm at about 5k a month so far
[2:31] <blockh34d> released my app last month or so, not bad for a one man band fresh out of the gate
[2:31] <SirLagz> blockh34d: what app ?
[2:31] <blockh34d> SirLagz: SCAMP, in pi store
[2:31] <[Saint]> We also have a complete theme engine.
[2:32] <SirLagz> ah k
[2:32] <[Saint]> Something no one else offers.
[2:32] <blockh34d> [Saint]: is that like the opengl skinning i mentioned?
[2:32] <[Saint]> No.
[2:32] <blockh34d> when i get that setup i think people are going ot be amazed at the difference
[2:32] <blockh34d> the UI will look a lot more like an xbox
[2:32] <blockh34d> but for now i just get it working right, and versatile... then i'll pretty it up when i get a chance
[2:33] <SirLagz> Pity I've pretty much lost interest in using the Pi for anything useful nowadays
[2:33] <blockh34d> SirLagz: i've settled on playing back media, some games i'm working on, and irc
[2:33] <blockh34d> seems a good fit to me
[2:33] <[Saint]> The easiest way to find out what Rockbox is, IMO, is to use it.
[2:33] <[Saint]> I would posit that everyone here has a Rockbox capable device laying around.
[2:33] <blockh34d> [Saint]: sure, but you could say the same thing about aids
[2:34] <blockh34d> [Saint]: maybe a youtube video that shows how install works, what it gains the user, etc
[2:34] <SirLagz> [Saint]: I assume the Pi is Rockbox capable...?
[2:34] * DoctorPenguin (~doctorpen@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:34] <[Saint]> It is indeed.
[2:34] <SirLagz> heh
[2:34] <blockh34d> and especially shows that it does not interfere with other apps
[2:34] <blockh34d> ie if i install rockbox does omxplayer stop working?
[2:34] <[Saint]> Nope.
[2:34] <[Saint]> Its entirely standalone.
[2:35] <[Saint]> We bring everything we need to the party.
[2:35] <blockh34d> i think it would help if you could demo these things
[2:35] <blockh34d> cause without seeing it, my paranoia runs wild, or it would if i was randomly encountering your app that is
[2:35] <blockh34d> naturally when you say 'hey blockh34d, my app does this and this', i dont think you have anything to hide or any ulterior motive
[2:36] <blockh34d> but if i just encountered it from some search results, i would fear the worst until i saw otherwise
[2:36] <[Saint]> Well, if one thinks that may be the case, our sources are completely open for review.
[2:36] <[Saint]> And this is actively encouraged.
[2:36] <blockh34d> sure but its not a rational fear
[2:36] <blockh34d> any decent coder wouldnt even have these suspicions
[2:36] <blockh34d> so the people that would, probably not going to be looking over any source code
[2:37] <SirLagz> I'm obviously too trusting then lol...
[2:37] <blockh34d> these folks want youtube videos and explicit statements 'This WILL happen. This WONT happen', etc
[2:37] <[Saint]> The main thing with Rockbox, though, is that we couldn't really care less about marketing it.
[2:37] <[Saint]> Its not /for/ end users.
[2:37] <[Saint]> If they use it, and get a kick out of it, great. That's cool.
[2:37] <[Saint]> But, its not for them.
[2:37] <blockh34d> not terribly reassuring
[2:37] <[Saint]> Its a high end audio player for professionals.
[2:38] <blockh34d> what audio professionals work on raspberry pi's?
[2:38] <[Saint]> Joe Average won't know what half of the settings we expose even do.
[2:38] * agrajag` (~agrajag@CAcert/Assurer/agrajag) Quit (Excess Flood)
[2:38] <blockh34d> yeah thats kinda offputting
[2:38] * skellat (~skellat@ubuntu/member/skellat) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:38] <[Saint]> Its kinda supposed to be.
[2:39] <blockh34d> reminds me of the options in web browsers that amount to 'Break Everything? Y/n'
[2:39] <[Saint]> Its not for the masses.
[2:39] <[Saint]> But, in saying that, we do try to present a sane default setup that anyone can use.
[2:39] <blockh34d> hey it sounds really cool btw, i dont want to sound negative about it
[2:39] <[Saint]> If you dont know what a setting is, just don't touch it. ;)
[2:39] <blockh34d> but you mention some concerns about perception so just my two cents
[2:40] <blockh34d> heres a feature i would consider worth the hassle: realtime VST plugin usage that is reasonably simple to implements
[2:40] <blockh34d> -s
[2:40] * MrM0bius (~Joey@c-71-206-218-187.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:41] <[Saint]> If you've got any one of the supported devices on hand, I highly recommend giving it a go.
[2:41] <[Saint]> And I would posit that almost everyone here will have a supported target somewhere in their possession.
[2:41] <blockh34d> its hard to get motivated to
[2:41] <shiftplusone> are you including android in that?
[2:41] <blockh34d> rpi already plays back my audio just fine, doesnt even use 10% cpu to do it
[2:41] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: Hm?
[2:42] * shiftplusone scrolls up to see what the conversation is actually about
[2:42] * MrMobius (~Joey@c-71-206-218-187.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:42] <shiftplusone> rockbox, no?
[2:42] * [Saint] nods
[2:43] <blockh34d> shiftplusone: and in a larger sense, 'feature creep' and how it relates to apps like my scamp app
[2:43] <shiftplusone> Hm, not sure how you can say most people have a device that it supports. The SDL and Android versions.... are just not the same
[2:44] <[Saint]> In what way? They're exactly the same.
[2:44] <[Saint]> Rockbox will function largely identically on any platform.
[2:44] * rvalles (~rvalles@unaffiliated/rvalles) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:45] <blockh34d> can it adjust playback speed in fine increments?
[2:45] <[Saint]> Yes.
[2:45] <shiftplusone> I can't put my finger on it exactly. I loved rockbox in the ipod days. If I try to use it on devices which aren't on that stable ports list, it doesn't seem like the same experience.
[2:45] <blockh34d> ie can i play back tracks at 97.2% speed?
[2:45] <[Saint]> Yes.
[2:45] <[Saint]> With or without pitch bending, too.
[2:45] <blockh34d> what about -97.2% speed?
[2:45] <[Saint]> Yes.
[2:46] <blockh34d> can it alternate between +/- playback rates very rapidly?
[2:46] <blockh34d> several times a second?
[2:46] <[Saint]> No, because...why the heck would you want that? :)
[2:46] <blockh34d> DJ scratching
[2:46] <shiftplusone> ... O_o
[2:46] <blockh34d> its a project i'm working on
[2:47] * Boatski (~Boatski@ Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[2:47] * rvalles (~rvalles@unaffiliated/rvalles) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:47] <blockh34d> in order to sound liek a proper DJ scratching up some vinyl, you need to be able to alternate from forard to backwards at any speed and very fast
[2:47] <blockh34d> the best way i've found to do that is basically play the track twice, once forward, once backward, both at the same time, but only one is not-muted
[2:47] <[Saint]> That's where feature creep comes in again.
[2:47] <[Saint]> I don't think an audio player has any business doing that.
[2:47] <blockh34d> its fun
[2:47] <[Saint]> Personally.
[2:48] <blockh34d> tell it to a DJ, they will laugh ;)
[2:49] <blockh34d> scamp will do that the very moment i phase omxplayer out
[2:49] * Tenchworks has successfully upgraded squeeze -> wheezy
[2:49] <blockh34d> Tenchworks: nice, how is it?
[2:49] <Tenchworks> a few things changed, I'll adjust those alter
[2:50] * RaptorJesus__ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:50] * RaptorJesus__ is now known as RaptorJesus
[2:50] <Tenchworks> everything the Pi does that I care for still work fine so I'm calling it a success
[2:50] <blockh34d> Tenchworks: sweet, does omxplayer work?
[2:51] <Tenchworks> couldn't tell you, I don't use it
[2:51] <Tenchworks> I use ncmpc and mpd for my music needs
[2:51] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: does your Android device happen to have a non-standard resolution, by any chance?
[2:51] <Tenchworks> and since this never leave the bash prompt, all the gui stuff are useless to me
[2:52] <blockh34d> Tenchworks: my UI works from command prompt (curses) ;)
[2:52] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: one thing I'm working on presently is resolution agnostic themeing.
[2:52] <Tenchworks> that will be my next project, cleaning the cruft and removing any unused elements
[2:52] <blockh34d> but i think mpd probably has you covered
[2:52] <SirLagz> [Saint]: I have a HTC Desire with non-standard resolution
[2:52] <blockh34d> mpd is pretty sweet i hear
[2:52] <shiftplusone> [Saint], it's a galaxy S2... doesn't seem non-standard to me
[2:53] <blockh34d> [Saint]: by resolution theming, what do you mean? resizable interface?
[2:53] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[2:54] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: in that case, the UI presented to you should've been very familiar.
[2:55] * aural (~aural@unaffiliated/necrodearia) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:55] <shiftplusone> May give it another spin.
[2:56] <[Saint]> sec.
[2:56] <shiftplusone> iirc, the fonts may have been all tiny and the menu very awkward to navigate, but maybe I'm remembering wrong
[2:56] * snuggyfoo (~ares@65-130-194-29.slkc.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:57] <[Saint]> I'll have a build up in a minute or so.
[2:59] <Tenchworks> shiftplusone, thanks for the reminder a couple weeks ago about backing up before upgrading the OS, I had to use the backup to undo something before moving forward with the upgrade process
[2:59] <shiftplusone> Tenchworks, heh, np.
[3:00] <SirLagz> I find that backups on the Pi are ESSENTIAL when working from the SD Card. I've killed far too many SD Cards to not backup now lol
[3:00] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[3:01] <Tenchworks> you know, that's the odd thing
[3:01] * snuggyfoo (~ares@65-130-194-29.slkc.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:01] <Tenchworks> I've yet to have one corrupt on me
[3:01] <Tenchworks> and my RPis have been in service for 2 years now putzing along
[3:01] * MrMobius (~Joey@c-71-206-218-187.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:01] <SirLagz> depends on what you're doing to the SD cards lol
[3:01] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: SirLagz: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/404cce33
[3:01] <[Saint]> hot off the press
[3:02] <SirLagz> and whether you have put things like /tmp and /var/log onto ramdisk or not
[3:02] <SirLagz> [Saint]: ooo
[3:02] * toeshred (~chris@cpe-75-83-148-180.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:02] <SirLagz> [Saint]: I'll have to bookmark that for when I get home :D
[3:02] <toeshred> i notice i can get omxplayer key bindings to work in i3-wm, but NOT in openbox. Is there a way to get them working in openbox?
[3:02] <shiftplusone> [Saint], so... why is there no bare metal pi port? >.>
[3:03] <[Saint]> There's a commandline variant called Warble.
[3:03] <blockh34d> toeshred: i'm pretty sure i'm using openbox here, with stock raspbian install... custom key mappings work fine for me in omxplayer
[3:03] <toeshred> i'm not using custom bindings, just trying to get the default ones working in openbox.
[3:03] <[Saint]> So, in a sense, there is a pi port.
[3:03] <[Saint]> Kinda.
[3:04] <[Saint]> It just so happens that the pi port is really an "anything that's ARM and hosted" port. :)
[3:04] <blockh34d> toeshred: maybe you'd like my app, its an interface to omxplayer i think is a lot easier to deal with.. Scamp in pi store, free
[3:04] * clever (~clever@nwcsnbsc00w-142177098030.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.nb.bellaliant.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:04] <Tenchworks> well I'm out for now, yall yave a good night
[3:04] <blockh34d> toeshred: all the same keys work the same, plus a bunch of new ones
[3:04] <SirLagz> night
[3:04] <toeshred> blockh34d: ill give it a try
[3:04] * Tenchworks (~none@unaffiliated/tenchworks) Quit (Quit: Once again lost within the depths of cyberspace)
[3:05] * cslcm (~TomM@host-202-166-108-91.as10.ldn.uk.sharedband.net) Quit ()
[3:05] <blockh34d> toeshred: great thanks let me know if any issues, i just posted a pretty big update, could still be some 'dust settling'
[3:06] * [Saint] wants to add he had nothing to do with the default theme for the Android ports and is working to get rid of that horrible mess
[3:07] <shiftplusone> [Saint], the version on the website crashed 3 times already. Will try the apk you uploaded tomorrow. It's 2am here, so I'm off.
[3:07] <[Saint]> o/
[3:07] <toeshred> blockh34d: i'm using arch, is there a way to get it without the pi store?
[3:07] <blockh34d> night shiftplusone
[3:07] <shiftplusone> 'night
[3:07] <blockh34d> toeshred: no not yet :( sorry
[3:07] <blockh34d> soon i'll have it in AUR
[3:08] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: I thought you were in Melbourne ?
[3:08] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: did you move ?
[3:08] <[Saint]> Pi-stuffs.
[3:08] <blockh34d> whats pi-stuffs?
[3:09] <[Saint]> The reason (AFAIK) why shift isn't in his usual locality
[3:09] <blockh34d> toeshred: i'm going to post a copy to box.net
[3:09] <[Saint]> Internship.
[3:09] <shiftplusone> SirLagz, in cambridge for a while
[3:09] <SirLagz> shiftplusone: ah k. night night then
[3:09] <shiftplusone> 'night
[3:11] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@c-76-115-7-194.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[3:11] <shiftplusone> [Saint], gave it a go after all.... crashed while browsing the menus as well
[3:11] <[Saint]> Well. That's disconcerting. :-/
[3:11] <toeshred> Does anyone have any idea why omxplayer bindings work in i3, but not in openbox? running it straight from urxvt terminal in both scenarios. The only thing i can do in openbox is crtl+c to exit, because nothing else works (can't even ctrl+alt+F2).
[3:11] <shiftplusone> can get you the logcat later whatnot
[3:11] * [Saint] nods
[3:12] <blockh34d> toeshred: how are you starting omxplayer?
[3:12] * S0-2 (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:12] <toeshred> $ omxplayer -b video.mp4
[3:13] * snuggyfoo (~ares@ppp-198-15-98-58.phx.napinet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:13] <blockh34d> not sure why that wouldnt work for you
[3:13] <blockh34d> here i've uploaded scamp to non-pi url
[3:13] <toeshred> maybe the terminal window loses focus in openbox, and causes the keys to stop working. but then ctrl+c shouldnt work to close the video...
[3:13] <blockh34d> https://app.box.com/s/t1xihde101j5rpanobe7
[3:14] <toeshred> sweet ty
[3:14] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:14] <clever> toeshred: i found that if it fails to connect to dbus, it ignores all keyboard input
[3:15] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:15] <blockh34d> hi clever how you been
[3:16] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:17] <clever> good
[3:17] <clever> i'm trying out some vc4 blobs, but now i cant find my sdcard reader, anywhere
[3:17] <clever> all of the readers have vanished at once
[3:18] * n3hxs (~Ed@pool-96-245-157-123.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:19] <blockh34d> i blame aliens
[3:19] <blockh34d> or perhaps their spy devices, cats
[3:19] * MY123 (uid37100@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gmajsvwdioipktba) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:26] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:27] * nashwhat (~nashwhat@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[3:29] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:29] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:30] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
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[3:37] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:38] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) Quit ()
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[3:42] <toeshred> clever: omxplayer seems to have a --dbus_name option. I tried googling to see if there are any common dbus names to try, but nothing helpful was found. Do you know any dbus names?
[3:42] <clever> nope
[3:42] <clever> the omxplayer script should auto-create the dbus channel
[3:45] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[3:45] * ChanServ sets mode +o Reggie__
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[3:46] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:47] <blockh34d> toeshred: is there any issues accessing /tmp folder? thats where omxplayer puts the dbus command by default
[3:47] <blockh34d> s/command/file
[3:47] <blockh34d> you should be able to see it there in your /tmp folder
[3:47] <blockh34d> toeshred: btw any luck with scamp? i think it might just solve every bit of these problems
[3:47] * hyperair (hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:48] <toeshred> blockh34d: oooh. i notice the two omxplayer files in /tmp are owns by the first user i ran omx with (and it works for tHAT user ion i3)
[3:48] <toeshred> blockh34d: i tried running the install script, but it dodnt seem to work in arch
[3:48] <clever> toeshred: omxplayer needs access to a few special device nodes
[3:48] <clever> toeshred: and new users wont have access to them by default
[3:48] <blockh34d> toeshred: maybe try deleting those files, could be theres a permission conflict
[3:49] <blockh34d> toeshred: yah i'm not surprised, i havent really ironed out non-raspbian deployments yet
[3:49] <blockh34d> i kinda wish there was more uniformity in which OS people us... whats wrong with raspbian anyways?
[3:49] <blockh34d> s/us/use
[3:49] <[Saint]> Its incredibly bloated.
[3:49] <[Saint]> *incredibly* bloated.
[3:50] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:50] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:50] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[3:50] <[Saint]> Its an educational OS, and its good for what it does.
[3:50] <[Saint]> Its not, however, an general purpose OS IMO.
[3:50] <blockh34d> what good is the education if when you're done learning you have to immediately jump to something new and fairly different?
[3:51] <blockh34d> seems kinda poor planning
[3:51] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:51] <blockh34d> they should maybe have two versions of raspbain, that might be nice
[3:51] <[Saint]> What? Why would you? I can't see how you're coming to that conclusion.
[3:51] <blockh34d> a learner version, with training wheels, and a stripped down minimal version
[3:51] <toeshred> clever: blockh34d: deleting the omx* files in /tmp did the trick. Those files were created as another user. So omxplayer only supports one user at a time.
[3:51] <[Saint]> If you want a minimal version, its out there...just look for it.
[3:52] <[Saint]> Google is your friend.
[3:52] <clever> toeshred: so the mktemp stuff isnt doing its job, or it lacks mktemp
[3:52] <blockh34d> toeshred: right, looks like it... hey great glad that fixed it... No idea why scamp wouldnt work for you, omxplayer is really the only thing it needs. is your home folder still /home/pi ?
[3:52] <clever> toeshred: its suppose to create a randomly named file in /tmp so it wont conflict with other users
[3:52] <toeshred> blockh34d: no i created new users. but the script uses the $USER variable in the right places, so it shouldn't matter.
[3:52] <clever> if you dont, the first user to create it can control who can use it
[3:52] <blockh34d> even if it wasnt the install.sh should still work
[3:53] <blockh34d> toeshred: yah thats what i was going for
[3:53] <toeshred> but i was running as a non superuser, with no sudo priv's.
[3:53] <blockh34d> toeshred: well if you get a chance to maybe tell me a little more about that error that'd be great
[3:53] <blockh34d> shouldnt need sudo i dont think
[3:53] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[3:54] <blockh34d> got python2.7 ?
[3:54] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:54] <toeshred> ok, ill just go over a few of the things i noticed. some of the "cp" commands need to write to system folders, so they failed permission check. and for arch, i changes the apt-get's to pacman -S
[3:54] * mikepparks (~mikeppark@173-228-71-193.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:55] * RaptorJesus_ is now known as RaptorJesus
[3:55] <toeshred> i have python 2.7.8
[3:55] * m1nus (~m1nus@c-76-30-2-194.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:56] <toeshred> i think the scamp install script would need to be run as a superuser first, then as the normal user.
[3:56] <blockh34d> hmm maybe those cp's are the problem then? they're just shortcuts to save some typing
[3:56] <toeshred> yeah i manually moved the files over as root user.
[3:56] <blockh34d> maybe the .desktop file is an issue?
[3:57] <blockh34d> it uses that so context menu is linked up right
[3:57] <toeshred> another thing is they didnt seem to retain their executalbe status after being copied.
[3:57] <blockh34d> thats odd
[3:57] <toeshred> oh, i didnt run the .desktop file, im just using openbox with no DE.
[3:57] <blockh34d> wellyou can always run it without those scripts, just more typing
[3:57] <blockh34d> python /home/pi/.scamp/scamp.pyc
[3:57] <blockh34d> that should play everything in the current folder
[3:57] <toeshred> i was just running the scamp in /usr/local/bin
[3:57] <blockh34d> btw if there is no media for it to play, you will get a weird error message and nothing else
[3:58] <blockh34d> you must run it from somewhere with at least one media file
[3:58] * AlanYue (~AlanYue@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:58] <blockh34d> or manually specify a media file name
[3:58] <toeshred> ah ok. i am sure i can get it working with some more tests
[3:58] <blockh34d> oh great. well that'd be pretty awesome, i'd love to sort out the arch install process for people
[3:59] <blockh34d> eventually get it in AUR, etc
[3:59] * kj4 (~alix@cpe-098-024-054-154.carolina.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:59] <kj4> hello rasbinii's
[3:59] <blockh34d> hello
[3:59] <blockh34d> rasbinator
[4:00] <kj4> coolest piece of hardware I've had in about forever, lol
[4:00] <blockh34d> yes i like it a lot
[4:01] <blockh34d> makes a great media center, i was really surprised how well it plays 1080p once i gave up on VLC
[4:01] * Boatski (~Boatski@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:01] <kj4> cool, what image are you running, and is it headless?
[4:01] <blockh34d> i'm using raspbian and i'm using the machine right now
[4:01] <blockh34d> i use it like a wimpy desktop
[4:02] <blockh34d> i actually code on it without too much hassle
[4:02] <blockh34d> the app i have in pi store was written 100% on a raspbery pi
[4:02] <blockh34d> i use a small tv as my monitor... 1920x1080 resolution, not too shabby
[4:03] <blockh34d> wireless keybaord mouse ftw
[4:03] <kj4> cool. what is the app?
[4:03] * jedahan (~jedahan@subtle/user/jedahan) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
[4:03] <blockh34d> kj4: Scamp, in the Pi store (Free)
[4:03] <blockh34d> its a media player UI
[4:03] <kj4> nice price. I'll wait until it goes on sale lol
[4:03] <blockh34d> makes omxplayer a little easier to deal with
[4:03] <blockh34d> yes soon i'll pay you to install it
[4:04] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:04] <blockh34d> you have to pay me a non refundable processing fee though
[4:04] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:04] <blockh34d> and theres a 8 year holding time
[4:04] <kj4> it's yours? cool. Hey, can raspian/midori do youtube at all?
[4:05] <[Saint]> Kinda. Sorta. Barely.
[4:05] <blockh34d> kj4: yup, just posted a big update... give it a shot! i think its a winner. lemme know if any issues please
[4:05] <blockh34d> kj4: for now, use youtube-dl
[4:05] <kj4> rgr
[4:05] <[Saint]> Use omxplayer and youtube-dl
[4:05] <blockh34d> either youtube-dl the file to a tmp folder and omxplayer the cashed file, or stream it with something like omxplayer $(youtube-dl -g urlhere)
[4:05] <blockh34d> cashed/cached
[4:05] <[Saint]> /omxplayer $(youtube-dl -g insert_url_here) or so.
[4:06] <blockh34d> soon scamp will handle all that though
[4:06] <kj4> so cool. I think I could employ about 5rpi's that could do different stuff in my house.
[4:06] <blockh34d> kj4: yah i have 3 of them and its not nearly enough
[4:07] <blockh34d> soon i'll have scamp setup so your media follows you around the house
[4:07] <kj4> mine is really for my son- so i'm going to have ot get my own
[4:07] <kj4> blockh34d: nice
[4:07] <blockh34d> ie you start a video in lving room, its on the LR tv until you say hey, i'm going to bed, then it moves to BR tv
[4:07] <blockh34d> yah thats still a myth but its closer every day
[4:07] <blockh34d> actually not that far off now
[4:08] <blockh34d> just implemented my own 'dbus' like interface, so now any one instance of scamp can control all the others
[4:08] <blockh34d> i allow up to 3 of them at a time
[4:08] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[4:09] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:09] <kj4> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU
[4:10] <blockh34d> omxplayer $(youtube-dl -g fpbOEoRrHyU)
[4:11] <blockh34d> works ok if you dont mind the sparse interface
[4:11] <blockh34d> i kinda do so i'll be sorting something else out
[4:11] <blockh34d> video quality is better than on youtube via flash imo
[4:12] <clever> it would be neat if you take apart the youtube-dl script and modify it to allow seeking
[4:12] <clever> and embed that code directly into a modified omxplayer
[4:12] <blockh34d> clever: thats pretty much what scamp will allow, and very soon
[4:12] <clever> then you could just omxplayer -y fpbOEoRrHyU
[4:12] <clever> ah
[4:12] <blockh34d> but only if you d/l the entire cached youtube file
[4:13] <blockh34d> not sure how to jump around in a stream
[4:13] <clever> that would be slower and require you to queue stuff up
[4:13] <blockh34d> scamp will automate it
[4:13] <blockh34d> also you can play as it downloads
[4:13] <blockh34d> but you're right its a less than ideal solution
[4:13] <clever> does it support youtube playlists?
[4:13] <clever> it would massively help if you can play A while it downloads B
[4:13] <blockh34d> scamp? no... youtube-dl? i dunno, i kinda think no
[4:13] <blockh34d> oh yah it can do that
[4:13] <blockh34d> definately can handle that, no problem
[4:14] <clever> and with a youtube playlist in it, it will know what B is automaticaly
[4:14] <clever> and just work
[4:14] <blockh34d> yah it has its own playlist but sure, its a lot liek that
[4:14] <blockh34d> i can probably setup a way to crawl a youtube playlist intoa scamp/winamp playlist
[4:14] <[Saint]> winamp.
[4:14] <[Saint]> cute.
[4:14] <blockh34d> btw scamp tries pretty hard to be, basically, console mode winamp
[4:15] * Technicus (~Technicus@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:15] <[Saint]> Jeeesus, if ever there's a project that needs to die...winamp is one of them.
[4:15] <blockh34d> imo winamp is great
[4:15] <[Saint]> uuugh.
[4:15] <blockh34d> oh you got your wish
[4:15] <blockh34d> aol shelfed it a while ago
[4:15] <blockh34d> whats wrong with winamp?
[4:15] <blockh34d> better than vlc imo
[4:15] <blockh34d> and that seems to be what people consider 'good'
[4:17] <SirLagz> I prefer VLC over Winamp, but back in the day Winamp was good.
[4:17] <[Saint]> People consider many terrible projects to be good.
[4:17] <blockh34d> I would like vlc a lot better if its playlist wasnt a joke
[4:17] <SirLagz> [Saint]: out of curiosity, what is it about winamp that makes it need to die ?
[4:17] <[Saint]> And, yes, VLC is lightyears ahead.
[4:17] <blockh34d> afaik, you still can't save or load playlists
[4:17] <SirLagz> blockh34d: I can save / load playlists...
[4:17] <SirLagz> it*
[4:17] <[Saint]> Yeah, that's just...not true.
[4:18] <blockh34d> lemme try again then.
[4:18] <[Saint]> VLC handles playlists just fine.
[4:18] <blockh34d> i can get playlists to export to a txt file but it wont load it back up and its not really a playlist
[4:18] <SirLagz> The only issue i found with saving/loading play lists is that it needs a specific extension for it to register that it's a playlist
[4:18] <blockh34d> maybe thats it, which extension is it?
[4:18] <SirLagz> blockh34d: I don't remember lol
[4:19] <blockh34d> this is why i'm not a big fan of vlc
[4:19] <SirLagz> I don't use playlists in vlc all that often tbh
[4:19] <blockh34d> too much BS involved to go from 'i want to watch someting' to arriving at 'now i am watching waht i want'
[4:19] <SirLagz> I prefer using qmmp to play my music
[4:19] <blockh34d> also its shuffle is not good
[4:19] <SirLagz> and i use vlc to watch videos
[4:20] <[Saint]> VLC is perfectly happy with .m3u, .m3u8, and .pls
[4:20] <blockh34d> k, gonna try it now
[4:20] <blockh34d> last time i tried to work with playlists in vlc it was a disaster
[4:20] <blockh34d> we got 'save playlist to file'
[4:21] <blockh34d> which exports a txt file, like i said
[4:21] <blockh34d> how do you save the playlist as a playlist?
[4:21] <blockh34d> if i right clikc the playlist, theres lots of 'tools' and stuff, but none of them are 'save' or 'load'
[4:22] <blockh34d> i think you're mistaken
[4:22] <[Saint]> https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Playlist/#Save_Playlist
[4:22] <blockh34d> vlc is garbage at playlists
[4:22] <[Saint]> tada, documentation...go figure.
[4:22] <blockh34d> why wouldnt it be under 'file -> save playlist'?
[4:23] <blockh34d> or 'playlist -> something', or 'playlist -> tools -> something'?
[4:24] <blockh34d> k gonna try its m3u
[4:24] <blockh34d> lets see
[4:24] <[Saint]> A little protip: its nice to read documentation before proclaiming that something does or doesn't do something.
[4:24] <[Saint]> just sayin'.
[4:24] * OxHaK (~OxHaK@ns352407.ip-91-121-83.eu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:24] <blockh34d> hey, last time i tried it, it did not work
[4:24] <SirLagz> blockh34d: did you read the documentation last time ?
[4:25] * [Saint] smirks
[4:26] <blockh34d> hell no i'm not going to read the VLC docs
[4:26] <blockh34d> thats offensive
[4:26] <[Saint]> Well...there's your problem, chief.
[4:26] <blockh34d> that i should even be expected to is absurd
[4:26] <blockh34d> its not rocket science
[4:26] <blockh34d> if it is at all 'mandatory', they have failed
[4:26] <SirLagz> blockh34d: that's like saying you shouldn't read the owner's manual for a car and then complaining when your car blows up because you didn't service it regularly
[4:27] <[Saint]> Can we at least agree that if you haven't done so, you're in no place to speculate about functionality?
[4:27] <blockh34d> i have never read the manual to any of my vehicles
[4:27] <[Saint]> "It doesn't do blah"; "uhhhh, yeah it does", "Oh...well, I had to *read* to find that out, so, nuts to that..."
[4:27] <SirLagz> blockh34d: neither have I, since I don't actually have the owners manuals to any of my cars lol
[4:28] <SirLagz> blockh34d: but my point still stands. Documentation is there for a reason.
[4:28] <[Saint]> FWIW, though, Media -> Save Playlist to File isn't exactly hidden.
[4:29] <[Saint]> Its not like its under a labyrinth of submenus.
[4:29] <blockh34d> why 'to file' and not just 'save playlist'? to file = export in non-playlist format
[4:29] <blockh34d> like 'html'
[4:29] * OxHaK (~OxHaK@ns352407.ip-91-121-83.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:29] <blockh34d> a goofy export option i think
[4:30] <[Saint]> Oooooh. Right. I see. So "doesn't work the way I think it does" == "broken".
[4:30] <[Saint]> Aha.
[4:30] <geordie> i needed to change the tire on my car; read the manual; learned that i needed to jumper a special connection (something to do with the all wheel drive.) never would have guessed that without reading the manual
[4:30] <[Saint]> Things become clearer.
[4:30] <blockh34d> [Saint]: basically, yes.
[4:30] <[Saint]> Kinda a crap attitude.
[4:30] <blockh34d> it wasn't intuitive and even when it does work, its still pretty substandard
[4:30] <SirLagz> geordie: sounds like you have a very fancy car haha
[4:31] <blockh34d> search playlist?
[4:31] <blockh34d> shuffle playlist? advanced shuffle playlist?
[4:31] <geordie> '97 subaru legacy outback
[4:31] * CB4 (~cb4@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:31] <SirLagz> geordie: you just named 2 cars ( but I know what you're talking about )
[4:31] <[Saint]> blockh34d: yes and yes
[4:32] <geordie> SirLagz: no, i didn't name two cars. in 1997 "outback" was a trim level on the legacy.
[4:32] <SirLagz> geordie: not where I am haha
[4:32] * [Saint] defaults back to "learn what an application does before speculating what it does"
[4:32] <blockh34d> [Saint]: nah, thers the same silly 'random' its always had
[4:32] * [Saint] sighs heavily
[4:33] <[Saint]> VERY heavily.
[4:33] <[Saint]> I give up.
[4:33] <blockh34d> how about 'play random tv show, play random movie, then play a stream'
[4:33] <blockh34d> sigh harder
[4:33] <blockh34d> maybe i'll care ;)
[4:33] * Kostenko (~Kostenko@bl8-166-253.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[4:33] <[Saint]> Well, at the end of the day, you're the one spouting off nonsense.
[4:34] <[Saint]> It just so happens to be nonsense about a project I'm involved in.
[4:34] <[Saint]> So, yes, I care.
[4:35] * Kostenko (~Kostenko@bl8-166-253.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:36] <blockh34d> well last time i tried it, it didnt work
[4:36] <geordie> SirLagz: "In 1996, a variant of the Legacy with heightened suspension called the Legacy Outback was introduced to compete in the burgeoning sport-utility vehicle class and proved to be a sales success for Subaru. The Outback line was split into its own model in 2000, known as the Subaru Outback."
[4:36] <geordie> SirLagz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy
[4:36] <blockh34d> some light googling shows it was a common problem
[4:36] <blockh34d> now i've tried again and i'm updating my knowledge base accordingly
[4:36] <blockh34d> even trying the latest and greatest from VLC i still find its playlist lacking
[4:36] <blockh34d> no search, and the shuffle is garbage
[4:37] <geordie> blockh34d: you should stop using it.
[4:37] <blockh34d> geordie: i did
[4:37] <blockh34d> i wrote my own player and its better for everything i need
[4:37] <SirLagz> geordie: ah, They shortened the name. I thought they were 2 different cars with the same platform
[4:37] <SirLagz> geordie: learn something new every day
[4:37] <geordie> yeah, i hadn't heard of it before i bought it four years ago.
[4:38] <[Saint]> No search?
[4:38] <[Saint]> There's a filter like *right fricken there!*
[4:38] <blockh34d> this is the first time i've even started VLC up in about a year
[4:38] <[Saint]> Gah!
[4:38] <SirLagz> geordie: I knew about the Outback, and I knew about the Legacy/Liberty, and that they were based on the same platform, didn't realise they were really the same car haha
[4:38] <[Saint]> Heh. Liberty.
[4:38] <SirLagz> geordie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Outback
[4:38] <[Saint]> You crazy Australians renaming stuff.
[4:38] <SirLagz> [Saint]: yeah. bloody retarded :P
[4:39] <blockh34d> [Saint]: filter != search
[4:39] <SirLagz> [Saint]: the "Legacy" name sounds so much better too
[4:39] <blockh34d> search = take me to next match
[4:39] <blockh34d> filter = remove everything that does not match
[4:39] <blockh34d> my player has both
[4:40] <blockh34d> you're right though i actually did not notice the search boxc
[4:40] <blockh34d> hiding right in front of me
[4:40] <blockh34d> try putting it in the tools menu or something
[4:41] <hybr1d8> it was 'rumoured' that by raising the outback a few cm it was able to be classed in the same category as various 4wd vehicles - saving taxes ;)
[4:41] <SirLagz> hybr1d8: wouldn't be surprised
[4:41] <SirLagz> they did that with the Forrester
[4:42] <geordie> i like driving down logging roads here in british columbia, canada, and was stoked to get the outback...
[4:43] <geordie> but going over a big hump of dirt on a deactivated logging road, i heard the bottom grinding a little bit - normal enough - so i stopped and got out to see what the first thing to contact the ground was
[4:43] <geordie> it was the exhaust pipes just downstream from the engine
[4:43] <geordie> bad design
[4:43] <blockh34d> suggestion for vlc [Saint] , if you are involved. Allow a shuffle that processes a 'sql like' command to create a semi random playlist... Also, show the shuffled playlist in the window, so you can know whats next, even if it was randomly selected
[4:43] <geordie> you don't want to lose those...
[4:44] <SirLagz> geordie: at least it wasn't something like the driveshaft or sump :P
[4:44] <geordie> yeah
[4:44] <SirLagz> I would much rather smash exhaust pipes than my sump
[4:44] <geordie> i guess it had to be something
[4:44] <blockh34d> sql-like command = 'play random from tvshows:comedy, play random from tvshows:drama, play movie from scifi, finally play random for streams:radio'
[4:44] <geordie> true enough. i'd be walking out of the bush if i lost my sump
[4:44] <SirLagz> exactly haha
[4:45] <geordie> ...but it's an awesome car, it's just not a proper 4x4
[4:45] <geordie> any old two wheel drive pickup truck will go further down those roads.
[4:45] <SirLagz> I'd prefer a Legacy over a 4x4 anyday though, I'm not a fan of 4xs
[4:46] <geordie> yeah, i don't need one (which is probably why i don't have one.)
[4:46] <SirLagz> haha
[4:46] <blockh34d> also how about a vlc that works with HW accel on rpi without compiling from source... if i could have apt-get install vlc-player, i may never have bothered making scamp.
[4:46] <geordie> i love driving down all the gravel roads here in BC though. there's tens of thousands of kilometers of them here in bc
[4:47] <SirLagz> geordie: that would be fun
[4:47] <SirLagz> geordie: none near me unfortunately
[4:49] <[Saint]> geordie: the Outback isn't really intended as an offroad vehicle at all.
[4:49] <[Saint]> Its more of a suburban tractor.
[4:49] <[Saint]> For soccer Moms, et al.
[4:49] <geordie> you're right
[4:50] * Brewsparks (~Brewspark@172-8-120-176.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:50] <SirLagz> Wish I had kept my old Honda CR-V actually. It would have been great now that the kids are a bit older to take em to the beach with
[4:50] <geordie> i think it would be great on the highway in the snow (haven't had much of a chance to try it out in that yet)
[4:50] <geordie> i have 2 little kids, that's why we bought the subaru
[4:51] <SirLagz> geordie: yeah I got 3 little kids, the CRV only had 2 spots to bolt the baby seat into so we had to change cars
[4:51] * [Saint] drives a tank
[4:51] <[Saint]> (74' Valliant Regal)
[4:51] <geordie> SirLagz: here's some pics of a "secret" army base my then 3 year old son and i discovered in 2010, near whistler bc: https://plus.google.com/110266616381043527115#photos/110266616381043527115/albums/5658738336421925601
[4:51] <SirLagz> [Saint]: nice
[4:52] <geordie> down a logging road
[4:52] <[Saint]> SirLagz: its fun to drive, but, it costs an absolute fortune to run.
[4:52] <SirLagz> geordie: heh taht's cool
[4:52] * CB4 (~cb4@ Quit ()
[4:53] <SirLagz> [Saint]: yeah I know the feeling :Pmy car costs me AUD$60 a week in fuel, and that's just driving to and from work
[4:53] <[Saint]> Foot flat on the motorway, I can actually *see* the fuel needle going down.
[4:54] <geordie> i love seventies cars - power on demand.
[4:54] <SirLagz> haha nice. I can't do foot flat on motorways because I'd be speeding way too quickly
[4:54] <SirLagz> not that it's what stopping me normally. It's the traffic that stops me normally haha
[4:54] <[Saint]> geordie: lots of power, but, virtually nothing keeping that power stuck to the road. :)
[4:55] * [Saint] wants to acquire a 2-wheeled death machine
[4:55] <geordie> [Saint]: does that car have the dished rear window?
[4:55] <[Saint]> Alternatively known as a motorcycle.
[4:55] <SirLagz> I think if I had a 2-wheeled death machine, death would catch me too quickly haha
[4:58] <SirLagz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mark_II#Seventh_generation_.28X90.3B_1992.E2.80.931996.29 <-- I have 2 of these. One for my wife and one for myself
[4:58] <Poison[BLX]> heh. Just the topic I wanted to wander back into... as I'm sitting, looking at a website with a shopping cart at over $1600 USD... and seriously considering hitting the go button.
[4:58] <Poison[BLX]> Yay car parts.
[4:58] <SirLagz> Poison[BLX]: haha
[4:58] * SirLagz clicks go for Poison[BLX]
[4:59] <Poison[BLX]> nah, waiting for tomorrow to prod them on a forum for a discount code... 6% counts at that point.
[4:59] <SirLagz> nice
[5:00] <Poison[BLX]> the reason for that cost... springs, shocks/struts, ball joints, every bushing on the car, and a *complete* clutch replacement...
[5:00] <SirLagz> stock parts ?
[5:00] <SirLagz> $1600 would be *cheap* for all that over where I am
[5:01] <Poison[BLX]> heh, a couple bits are relatively stock. The shocks/struts are koni yellows, adjustable, and the springs are FRPP.
[5:01] <SirLagz> nice
[5:01] <Poison[BLX]> the clutch is... sorta a single step up from stock, with a stock steel flywheel
[5:02] * EastLight (n@054037c8.skybroadband.com) Quit ()
[5:02] <SirLagz> a clutch kit for my car is already AUD $1k for me, and that's just the clutch and not including flywheel
[5:02] * Noldorin (~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) Quit ()
[5:02] <Poison[BLX]> the joys of a '94 mustang gt, parts are cheap :P
[5:02] <SirLagz> haha
[5:02] <Poison[BLX]> granted, I paid $2200US for the car.
[5:02] <Poison[BLX]> :P
[5:03] <[Saint]> Oh God.
[5:03] <[Saint]> The plastic 'stang.
[5:03] <Poison[BLX]> I've put a new top on it, a little other bits of money into it... replaced the gaskets on the top end and timing chain cover.
[5:03] <[Saint]> The new ones are all wrong.
[5:03] <Poison[BLX]> and yep! actually, it's metal, thin, cheap, metal :P
[5:03] <Poison[BLX]> at least the 94.
[5:03] <SirLagz> so the same as plastic :P
[5:03] <Brewsparks> Any one working on a preempt_rt kernel?
[5:04] <Poison[BLX]> pretty much!
[5:04] <Poison[BLX]> but at least they still used the old 5.0 in 94.
[5:04] <blockh34d> Brewsparks: no but i'll take any chance to return to a topic more about raspberry pi's than cars
[5:04] <[Saint]> WHat? No? This is clearly a channel for the discussion of automobiles and automobile accessories.
[5:04] <[Saint]> ...duh.
[5:04] <Poison[BLX]> but... my pi *is* an automobile accessory...
[5:04] <SirLagz> obviously
[5:05] <blockh34d> Brewsparks: what is preempt_rt kernel? speed benefits?
[5:05] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:05] <Poison[BLX]> one of 'em, anyhow.
[5:05] <SirLagz> I had plans to turn my Pi into an automotive accessory...but then I blew that car's engine.
[5:06] <Brewsparks> It removes unbounded latentcies in the kernel
[5:06] <Brewsparks> Its not a true hard real time OS, but it gets pretty close.
[5:07] <blockh34d> neat. can't really make much sense out of that but it sounds cool. hows it going? troubles?
[5:07] <Brewsparks> I am still learning the process my self. I have gotten as far as patching and compiling the kernel, but it looks like the MMC driver doesn't like it. The boot hangs when it tries to mount the root file system
[5:07] <Poison[BLX]> typically most useful for either industrial or audio work, from the things I've seen it targetted at. Robotics are a good thing for it too.
[5:07] <blockh34d> Poison[BLX]: might be good for reprap stuff
[5:07] <Brewsparks> I would like to use it for robotics
[5:08] * Orion____ (~Orion_@ has joined #raspberrypi
[5:08] <[Saint]> Brewsparks: have you considered one of the many realtime distributions?
[5:08] <[Saint]> ChibiOS, Machinoid, etc.
[5:09] <SirLagz> bah. this has gone back to Pi stuff. Not interesting at all.
[5:09] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:09] <blockh34d> SirLagz: maybe you could talk about rpi stuff in #cars
[5:09] <Brewsparks> Not familiar with those.
[5:10] <[Saint]> FreeRTOS
[5:10] <Brewsparks> I have used FreeRTOS on a dsPIC board
[5:11] <[Saint]> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22423
[5:11] <[Saint]> "FreeRTOS Sucessfully Ported"
[5:11] <Brewsparks> I did see that
[5:12] * rudivd_ (~rudivd@ has joined #raspberrypi
[5:13] <Brewsparks> I had considered going down that route, but wanted to checkout how well the preempt_rt kernel worked.
[5:15] <Brewsparks> seemed like it would save a lot of work trying to get the peripherals working
[5:15] <clever> Brewsparks: from what i understand, it allows kernel mode code to be suspended to perform a context switch
[5:16] <clever> so you can have other processes multi-task without having to wait for the kernel side to finish
[5:16] <Brewsparks> Thats correct.
[5:16] <clever> but i believe that still operates thru the standard 500hz tick timer
[5:16] <clever> so it will be ungodly slow for 'real time' applications
[5:16] <Brewsparks> There are some functions in the kernel that are not preemptable, but most of them are.
[5:16] <Brewsparks> you can configure the tick rate in the kernel config before you compile
[5:16] <[Saint]> From what I can see, everyone is hitting the same issue with MMC and the preempt kernel.
[5:17] <clever> but it cant tick fast enough to meet any of my simplest 'real time' needs
[5:17] <Brewsparks> you can run it all the way up to 1000Hz
[5:17] <blockh34d> clever hows your homebrew gpu binary doing
[5:18] <clever> blockh34d: its on the card, and the code should output a string on the uart
[5:18] <blockh34d> or blob or whateve ryou'd call it
[5:18] <clever> blockh34d: but i dont see anything on the serial port
[5:18] <blockh34d> huh, i wouldnt know why. If you hadnt helped me get my gps working over serial it'd still be a paperweight
[5:19] <clever> heh
[5:19] <blockh34d> going to get my rpi game polished off soon
[5:19] <blockh34d> want to help me test out the multiplayer versus?
[5:19] <blockh34d> not right now but probably pretty soon
[5:20] <blockh34d> soon we can all kill each other with helicopters and tanks
[5:21] <clever> ive modified it to just barf the same string forever
[5:21] <blockh34d> sounds useful
[5:22] <clever> nothing
[5:23] * rambo123456` (~user@c-50-150-79-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:24] <binaryhermit> hmm, two Americans in the Israeli military were killed in the Jewing of Gaza
[5:24] <binaryhermit> err
[5:24] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@107-219-124-142.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) has left #raspberrypi
[5:25] * Bozza (~Bozza@unaffiliated/bozza) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:25] * Bozza (~Bozza@unaffiliated/bozza) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:25] * Drevkevac is now known as Drevkevac_AFK
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[5:26] <clever> blockh34d: my only guess now is the 64bit host
[5:26] <clever> somebody said the assembler is broken on 64bit machines
[5:28] <blockh34d> huh... really no idea... been quite a while since i did anything in assembler
[5:28] <clever> the assembly file is only 13 lines long
[5:28] <blockh34d> clever: were you talking about adding my app to AUR once? kinda think so but its been a while
[5:28] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:29] <clever> probly not
[5:29] <blockh34d> i've been thinking more about that lately, just posted a big update
[5:29] <clever> dont know what AUR is
[5:29] <blockh34d> ah ok n/m
[5:29] <blockh34d> Arch user repository
[5:29] <clever> ah
[5:29] <blockh34d> i guess its like apt-get for arch?
[5:29] <blockh34d> i dunno, havent tried it
[5:30] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[5:30] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[5:31] <blockh34d> yeah i wouldnt even know where to begin guessing about 64bit assembler issues
[5:31] <blockh34d> i'm gonna wild-guess something about endian
[5:31] <blockh34d> something-something endian. that's my offical guess.
[5:32] <clever> the target is 32 always
[5:32] <clever> but if the host is 64, ive been told it messes up
[5:34] <[Saint]> "Jewing"?
[5:35] <[Saint]> Jewing: [adj.] "to Jew something"
[5:35] <[Saint]> Unsurprisingly, that's not in my dictionary. ;)
[5:36] * [Saint] checks urbandictionary and cringes
[5:36] * MY123 (uid37100@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gmajsvwdioipktba) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[5:36] <Poison[BLX]> rofl.
[5:36] <Poison[BLX]> see, I read the more recent lines, came up with the UD variant in my head, then read above and caught the source of where that term was used here.
[5:37] <[Saint]> Jewception.
[5:37] <Poison[BLX]> I think it's a good example of bad translation + "I don't think that word means what you think it means."
[5:38] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3)
[5:38] <johnc-> what did I walk in on?
[5:39] <Poison[BLX]> something very poorly phrased that spawned a "What does that mean, exactly?" gone all wrong.
[5:39] <[Saint]> Questionable adjectives.
[5:45] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:48] * thesheff17 (~thesheff1@24-148-57-183.c3-0.lem-ubr1.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:51] <blockh34d> johnc-: hard to say really
[5:52] * Boatski (~Boatski@ Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[5:52] * Technicus (~Technicus@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:52] <blockh34d> i would call it 'racist hate speech' but i guess this is IRC, probably some amount of that is expected
[5:56] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@c-76-115-7-194.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:56] * rudivd_ (~rudivd@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[5:57] * RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:57] * Brewsparks (~Brewspark@172-8-120-176.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[5:57] * Reggie__ (ReggieUK@ Quit ()
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[6:01] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Excess Flood)
[6:03] <toeshred> what NES emulator core does RetroPi use?
[6:05] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:06] <phire> RetroArch
[6:08] <toeshred> retroarch isnt an emulator of it's own though, it just uses the core of other emulators.
[6:08] <phire> yes
[6:08] <phire> apparently retroarch uses FCEUmm
[6:08] <toeshred> but which NES core does retroarch use?
[6:09] <toeshred> ah ok. i wonder if that uses openGLES>
[6:09] <phire> or NEStopia
[6:09] <phire> or QuickNES
[6:09] <toeshred> never used either, i am a fan of mednafen.. but unfortunately i get terrible eprformance on it
[6:09] <toeshred> because it lacks support for openGLES
[6:09] <toeshred> maybe they all do, i dunno
[6:10] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[6:10] <phire> I don't think you are going to get a lot of performance out of openGLES for a nes emulator
[6:11] <toeshred> is there another way to use hw acceleration for NES on the pi?
[6:12] <toeshred> i thought it had to be open gles to use the gpu acceleration.
[6:12] <toeshred> which was why omxplayer is necessary
[6:12] <phire> what exactly are you going to be gpu accelerating?
[6:13] <toeshred> NES emulation, if possible.
[6:13] * Kostenko (~Kostenko@bl8-166-253.dsl.telepac.pt) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[6:13] <trickyhero> the NES emulators arn't at 60 fps?
[6:14] <toeshred> i gave mednafen a try, and i was getting 1 frame every 10 seconds or so.. took about a min to even see the game company logo in the start.
[6:14] <phire> nes emulation is not very condusive for hw acceleration.
[6:14] <phire> all you need is a good blitter
[6:14] <toeshred> but i know it can handle NES i see videos of it performing very well.
[6:15] <trickyhero> the SNES emulator I used worked pretty well iirc so I just assumed NES would workout well
[6:15] <toeshred> and this poor performance i get is without a DE, just running i3 window manager alone.
[6:15] * pothibo (~textual@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:15] * Sauvin (~Savinus@about/linux/staff/sauvin) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:15] <pothibo> I'm not sure I understand the difference between pull-up and pull down and if it's relevant to me if I just want to turn a GPIO on/off
[6:16] <clever> if its set to output mode, you shouldnt need either one
[6:16] <clever> its usualy only needed for input mode pins
[6:16] <phire> toeshred, use a nes emulator which advertises raspberry pi support.
[6:17] * Sauvin (~Savinus@about/linux/staff/sauvin) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:17] * clever heads to bed
[6:17] <pothibo> clever thanks!
[6:18] <toeshred> phire: i don't know any that advertise pi support. There is PiSNES for SNES, but I haven't been able to find anything specifically for NES on the pi.
[6:18] * pothibo (~textual@ Quit (Client Quit)
[6:18] <toeshred> i guess just trying all of them and hoping one works out is the best i can do.
[6:18] <phire> maybe someone will make one
[6:21] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:21] <phire> toeshred, you probally want an emulator which runs directly from the terminal
[6:22] <phire> X11 slows things down a lot
[6:22] <toeshred> yeah it does. but 1080p playback is perfect inside X
[6:23] <toeshred> even streaming over samba
[6:23] <phire> omxplayer has been optimised to work on the pi
[6:24] <phire> none of the nes emulators appear to have been optimised
[6:24] <toeshred> that's unfortunate :(
[6:24] <johnc-> well you arent playing the video through X
[6:25] <johnc-> omxplayer uses an egl layer to render video directly on the gpu
[6:25] <toeshred> so then i can play video without loading X at all?
[6:25] <johnc-> yes
[6:25] * raleigh (~raleigh@71-85-128-19.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[6:25] <toeshred> wow
[6:25] <trickyhero> is that what the xbmc distros use?
[6:25] <phire> I don't even think it's an ogl layer, it's dismanx
[6:25] <toeshred> hmm, if more programs did that, i wouldn't need a window manager anymore.
[6:26] <johnc-> I'm not sure what xbmc uses speciically
[6:26] <johnc-> but the apps I've written use EGL rendering to get performance
[6:26] <phire> xbmc uses omxplayer
[6:26] <trickyhero> cool stuff
[6:28] <johnc-> the gpu on a rpi is shockingly powerful
[6:28] <johnc-> and sets it apart from other similar hardware imo
[6:29] <phire> however, the gpu is not useful for nes games
[6:29] <phire> But there is so much other optimisation you can do
[6:30] <phire> like bypassing x11
[6:30] * AlanYue (~AlanYue@ Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[6:30] <phire> and having a arm optimised interpter (or even a jit)
[6:30] <phire> I don't know if any nes emulators jit their code
[6:34] <toeshred> i have my ram split 50/50 with cpu/gpu, maybe that's why my emulation is so slow.
[6:34] <[Saint]> What you need is an emulator that prioritizes performance over consistency.
[6:34] <toeshred> so i am giving 256mb to the gpu.
[6:34] <[Saint]> Many strive to be 100% faithful representations of the original.
[6:35] <[Saint]> At the cost of performance.
[6:35] <[Saint]> It all depends what you care about.
[6:35] <phire> especially nes emulators.
[6:35] <toeshred> i remember playing NESticle back in the old days. No sound, terrible perofrmance. but still so much fun.
[6:35] <[Saint]> Indeed.
[6:35] <toeshred> and it has a silly icon
[6:35] <phire> they tend to be cycle accurate these days
[6:35] * [Saint] nods
[6:36] <blockh34d> toeshred: i havent found any situations yet that actually use 256mb of GPU memory, and i've tried hard to max it out with shakey GPU coding
[6:36] <blockh34d> toeshred: even making my own GL games with wayyyyy overboard textures... still, 128mb is plenty
[6:37] <[Saint]> Yeah, 256 is overkill.
[6:37] <[Saint]> I'm not actually confident it'll even go that high, either.
[6:37] <[Saint]> It'll likely accept that as a value, but I think it tops out lower than that.
[6:39] <phire> anyway, screw emulators
[6:39] <[Saint]> heh
[6:39] <phire> I bought a c64 on trademe, which I need to pickup in an hour
[6:39] <[Saint]> that's not very nice.
[6:39] <johnc-> I should order a couple of B+s
[6:39] * redrocket (~redrocket@unaffiliated/redrocket) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:41] <phire> I wonder if I could emulate a 1541 on my raspberry pi
[6:41] <phire> my c64 doesn't come with a disk drive
[6:41] <johnc-> I wonder why the foundation put the effort into making the B+
[6:42] <phire> possibly the network/hub chip went out of production
[6:42] <toeshred> probably power issues with the B, and usb port complaints.
[6:42] * trickyhero (~dw@d4-50-215-4.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:42] <johnc-> didn't stop them being bought though :P
[6:43] <phire> or the chip they are planning on using for the model C (or rpi 2) isn't ready yet
[6:43] <[Saint]> Because they're corporate fatcats squeezing The Man for his dollars.
[6:43] <[Saint]> </s>
[6:43] <blockh34d> sup with new improved rpi
[6:43] <blockh34d> seems like the iron is hot, its time for a model C... is it every gonna happen?
[6:43] <blockh34d> every/ever
[6:44] * Orion____ (~Orion_@ Quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
[6:44] <johnc-> well the B+ efforts could be changes they originally made for a model C/2.0
[6:44] <johnc-> which would be cool, but just a guess
[6:44] <[Saint]> I doubt it.
[6:45] <phire> yeah, it was going to be too far away, so they created an interim model.
[6:45] <[Saint]> The board revolves around the SoC too heavily.
[6:45] <[Saint]> And if they still have any thoughts of using the same SoC for the "next gen" Pi, I think many will abandone ship.
[6:46] * Out`Of`Control (~Viper@unaffiliated/outofcontrol/x-1373891) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:46] <johnc-> if there even is a next gen
[6:46] <[Saint]> Its very close to being considered obsolete now.
[6:46] <[Saint]> If it isn't already.
[6:47] <blockh34d> rpi is defiantely obsolete
[6:47] <[Saint]> Don't get me wrong, ARMv6 was great, in its time, but its time for it to die.
[6:47] <blockh34d> even by the most optimistic of standards
[6:47] <johnc-> I really want a board with the rpi gpu perf and an older gen tegra chip :)
[6:47] <[Saint]> I think we all know that.
[6:47] <blockh34d> i mean i love the rpi and even i have to admit its kinda dated
[6:48] <blockh34d> only thing that makes it relevant even still is i think, the gpu
[6:48] <johnc-> rpi was obsolete when it launched, it's just cheap and amazing gpu
[6:48] <blockh34d> surprisingly capable gpu
[6:48] <blockh34d> yes
[6:48] <[Saint]> Errr...wait, what, no...no no no. The Raspberrypi is definitely not obsolete.
[6:48] <[Saint]> The dated SoC is, but, its fine for what it is _intended_ for.
[6:49] <blockh34d> meh, one odroid u3 runs rings around a stack of rpi's
[6:49] <[Saint]> In fact, for the intended scope of the project, its overkill.
[6:49] <[Saint]> Yeah, that's nice...but, you're missing the point entirely.
[6:49] <blockh34d> maybe
[6:50] <[Saint]> They are two COMPLETELY different classes of device.
[6:50] <blockh34d> i have my own reasons to support rpi
[6:50] <[Saint]> Not even comparable at all. In any way.
[6:50] <blockh34d> it could be an arduino and i'd still be coding for it
[6:50] <blockh34d> nonprofit = my first loyalty
[6:50] <blockh34d> any nonprofit will always be my first choice of platforms
[6:50] <johnc-> [Saint], right, as far as the education mandate goes it's an amazingly well engineered device
[6:50] <blockh34d> it could have a crank on it and thats still be true
[6:51] <[Saint]> I'll take freedom over non-profit any day.
[6:51] <[Saint]> That's the one major criticism of this project.
[6:51] <[Saint]> That terrible SoC.
[6:51] <blockh34d> johnc-: enh, it really needs better youtube support
[6:51] <blockh34d> youtube and education go hand in hand
[6:51] <[Saint]> What? I...gah.
[6:51] <johnc-> lol why? it's not a $50 facebook machine :P
[6:51] <blockh34d> cause youtube is very educational
[6:51] <blockh34d> its not facebook
[6:52] <[Saint]> You're trolling, right? You have to be.
[6:52] <phire> the rpi's soc is limited to 1gb of ram
[6:52] <blockh34d> ?
[6:52] <[Saint]> I can't take this seriously.
[6:52] <toeshred> i like reading the youtube comments.
[6:52] <johnc-> the rpi is a terminal you type into and get it to do things, so you can learn
[6:52] <johnc-> it's not a device for browsing in any form
[6:52] <johnc-> people just do it anyway
[6:52] <blockh34d> toeshred: i could live without those actually, they are incomprehensible most of the time heh
[6:52] <phire> and quite possibly there is an additional limit which limits it to the 512mb that the pi has
[6:52] <[Saint]> see "missing the point" from earlier. ;)
[6:52] <blockh34d> [Saint]: i think you're just kinda harsh
[6:52] <toeshred> i read em because they can be very humorous
[6:52] <blockh34d> you act like i said 'it definately doesnt support playlists'
[6:53] <blockh34d> when the reality is, i said' as far as i know'
[6:53] <blockh34d> and when you said otherwise, i checked it out
[6:53] <blockh34d> maybe you're just kinda harsh
[6:53] <blockh34d> thats what i think
[6:53] <blockh34d> but whatever
[6:53] <blockh34d> that horse is dead, buried
[6:53] <blockh34d> lets flog a different animal, maybe something still alive.
[6:54] <blockh34d> toeshred: average youtube comment: Something something OBAMA!
[6:54] <johnc-> yay, my audio library compiles :D
[6:54] <blockh34d> johnc-: victory! whats next?
[6:54] * agrajag` (~agrajag@CAcert/Assurer/agrajag) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:54] <[Saint]> It is, yes, which is why I'm completely unsure as to why you brought it up in the middle of an entirely related conversation.
[6:54] <toeshred> haha... THANKS OBAMA
[6:54] <johnc-> testing it works
[6:55] <johnc-> and if it works, looking at the hardware fft example code :D
[6:55] <blockh34d> < [Saint]> see "missing the point" from earlier. <-- this is where you busted out your horse corpse digging shovel
[6:56] <[Saint]> No. That's you misinterpreting the conversation entirely.
[6:56] <[Saint]> Well done.
[6:56] <blockh34d> oh ok
[6:56] <blockh34d> i'll put my horsecorpse digging back hoe away then
[6:56] <blockh34d> i'm hungry
[6:56] <blockh34d> time for food
[6:57] <[Saint]> I was alluding to the fact that you seem to be unaware of or unsure of the scope of the Raspberrypi project and the intended use of the hardware.
[6:57] <blockh34d> which is?
[6:57] * Alina-malina (Alina-mali@unaffiliated/alina-malina) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[6:58] <phire> education
[6:58] <blockh34d> why does an education require a gpu?
[6:58] <Twist-> very specifically, it's an educational toy intended for use teaching programming to children.
[6:58] <blockh34d> it really doesnt need it, but its there anyways
[6:58] * Alina-malina (Alina-mali@unaffiliated/alina-malina) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:59] <blockh34d> for that matter, what does education need with no-infrared filter 5mp cameras?
[6:59] <blockh34d> thats factory automation or nightvision gear there
[6:59] <blockh34d> i think the point of raspberry pi is not as clearcut as you alude to
[6:59] * \mSg (mSg@unaffiliated/msg/x-4576342) Quit ()
[6:59] * Cy-Gor (~Brian@cpe-66-68-46-69.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:59] <phire> it's also a bit of a pipedream for broadcom employees
[6:59] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@107-219-124-142.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:59] <blockh34d> ?
[7:00] <[Saint]> There's that.
[7:00] <blockh34d> i've gained a lot of respect for broadcom from rpi
[7:00] <phire> the designer of the rpi is the designer of the gpu in the SOC
[7:00] * \mSg (mSg@unaffiliated/msg/x-4576342) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:00] <blockh34d> previously they were just another faceless megacorp that apparently hates everyone
[7:00] <[Saint]> I lost it completely from Android.
[7:00] <[Saint]> Broadcom absolutely just _don't_ care about openness.
[7:00] <blockh34d> now i think they are a reluctant monster
[7:00] <[Saint]> They pretend to.
[7:00] <[Saint]> But, they don't.
[7:00] <blockh34d> i dunno i think they've done pretty good
[7:01] <blockh34d> they have contractual agreements
[7:01] <blockh34d> they can't just abandon them
[7:01] <blockh34d> for as much as they are capable of doing, i'm satisfied with how open they've been
[7:01] <[Saint]> If you look at their history, they're *terrible* about community/openness.
[7:01] <blockh34d> i'm just looking at how it applies to rpi
[7:01] <[Saint]> If you look at their cooperation on this *one* project...its still questionable.
[7:01] <blockh34d> and it seems like they've opened up the vast majority of their code
[7:02] <phire> pre rpi, broadcom was one of the most anti-openness companies our there
[7:02] <[Saint]> post pi...nothing much has changed. :)
[7:02] <blockh34d> enh, they really arent under any obligation to release anything, ever, to anyone
[7:02] <phire> post pi, it's improving
[7:02] <blockh34d> we could make our own gpus
[7:02] <blockh34d> and they would suck
[7:03] <blockh34d> and be monstrously expensive
[7:03] * arrrjt (arrrjt@cpe-76-88-80-94.san.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:04] <phire> there have been a few attempts at open source gpu's on FPGAs
[7:04] <blockh34d> even peoples homemade FPGA chips are barely, what, 386's?
[7:04] <[Saint]> Another champion of openness is Allwinner.
[7:04] <blockh34d> i dunno, last time i checked in, it wasnt super impressive yet
[7:04] <[Saint]> Those guys are...well, yeah. Heh.
[7:04] <phire> I don't think anyone has managed a 386
[7:05] <blockh34d> i heard someting to that effect
[7:05] <blockh34d> maybe i can find the link
[7:05] <phire> I've seen 68000's
[7:06] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:06] <blockh34d> here's a 8088 http://www.ht-lab.com/freecores/cpu8086/cpu86.html
[7:07] <blockh34d> not sure if thats actually something you can run on a FPGA yet or just a simulation
[7:07] <blockh34d> VHDL can be sent straight to FPGA?
[7:08] <[Saint]> Oh God. It mentions CygWin.
[7:08] <phire> 8088 is far simpler than the 8386
[7:08] * TheHacker66 (~TheHacker@adsl-ull-76-26.48-151.net24.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[7:08] <blockh34d> sure, no question there
[7:08] <blockh34d> i probably mis-remembered the 386
[7:08] <phire> 386 was the first 32bit x86 cpu
[7:09] <blockh34d> i heard 8088 and thought 'well in a year or two that should be a386 then'
[7:09] <Twist-> blockh34d: yeah.. I haven't seen anyone try kickstarting a chip fab yet.
[7:09] <blockh34d> Twist-: maybe some day
[7:09] <blockh34d> Twist-: i'm working on a way to 3d print functional circuits, i'm calling it macroelectronics since its kinda bulky
[7:09] <blockh34d> maybe thats a step in the right direction but its way behind fpga at this point
[7:10] <Twist-> I like the open hardware movement.. but hardware is more capital intensive than software. It's not going to explode quite the way OSS did.
[7:10] <blockh34d> Twist-: and if you could 3d print functional transistors?
[7:10] <blockh34d> then it just comes down to shrinking it down imo
[7:10] <blockh34d> size game
[7:11] <johnc-> ooo, the b+ has a better power supply for the audio output :D
[7:11] <Twist-> blockh34d: it'll get there.. we're just not going to be printing pentium class chips in the living room for the foreseeable future
[7:11] <phire> You would have to get 1000's of transistors per ic for things to get interesting.
[7:11] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[7:11] <phire> at that point you could probally print an 8bit computer
[7:11] <blockh34d> Twist-: i bet you're right, but you know... 10 years ago i wouldnt have expected to be able to 3d print stuff i just whipped up in CAD 30 seconds earlier... but here we are, didnt really cost that much either
[7:12] <phire> (It would be massive)
[7:12] <blockh34d> yah thats where i got macro from
[7:12] <Twist-> blockh34d: The holdup there was patents, not actual hardware.
[7:12] <[Saint]> 3d printed circuitry is nowhere even close to being much more than a novelty presently.
[7:12] <blockh34d> cause for a while it would be, by comparison, huge
[7:12] <[Saint]> that's not changing in the near future.
[7:12] <blockh34d> [Saint]: working on my own process
[7:12] <blockh34d> its nothing like existing techniques afaik
[7:13] <[Saint]> There's already several implementations out there.
[7:13] <Twist-> <pedantry>are we not still working on 2d printed circuits?</pedantry>
[7:13] <blockh34d> [Saint] so?
[7:13] <phire> a few people are
[7:14] <blockh34d> heh i think [Saint] just wants me to step away from the keybaord
[7:14] <phire> but it's more like extruding solder onto plastic
[7:14] <blockh34d> give it up man! 30+ years already
[7:14] <blockh34d> phire: i'm working on embedding wire into 3d prints
[7:14] <[Saint]> I think you're a champion of reading implied tone and context that simply doesn't exist.
[7:14] <Twist-> blockh34d: let us know when you get something to market. it's the sort of thing we'd buy for the hackspace.
[7:15] <[Saint]> But, you're on your way to making me dislike you with the constant accusations.
[7:15] <blockh34d> so you print a channeled plate, then you push the wire in, twist little pads at eithe rend connector, then print over it
[7:15] <[Saint]> So, if that's what you want...keep trying.
[7:15] <blockh34d> so then when i get my Icepick project fucntional (an open source variant of the Firepick me and a friend are working on), we'll be ablet o implemetn multiple-tools
[7:15] <blockh34d> one of htose tools will be an extruder, another will embed wire
[7:16] <blockh34d> with metal in the mix, soldering becomes a lot more realistic imo
[7:16] <phire> wire is no fun. You can only make inductors, resistors and electromagnets
[7:16] <blockh34d> then all you really need is filament doped with the right impurities to create PNP junctions etc
[7:16] * achim (~achim@p5DDC666C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:16] <johnc-> I hope I can hack my AC controller in my new apartment in a couple weeks :)
[7:16] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:16] <phire> yeah, doping is where it's at
[7:17] <blockh34d> Twist-: hey if i do, i'll send ou a link
[7:17] <SirLagz> johnc-: AC controller ?
[7:17] <Twist-> These guys caught my interest a while ago.
[7:17] <Twist-> http://www.cartesianco.com/product/the-argentum/
[7:17] <johnc-> to control my heating/air con
[7:17] <Twist-> they're printing boards, not complete circuits though.
[7:17] <SirLagz> johnc-: ah i see
[7:17] <SirLagz> johnc-: I was thinking AC as in power for some reason lol...
[7:18] <johnc-> the one in this apartment is stuck to the wall with no way to hack it without causing damange
[7:18] <Twist-> It's fun watching them roll through the usual love affair with laser cut acrylic.
[7:18] <blockh34d> johnc-: if you want to stay low-current, you can wire into the AC's actual switches, or if you want the RPI to be the brains of that outfit, i think you'd need some relays to handle the higher current
[7:18] <Twist-> Expect that enclosure to change following their first round of product shipment.
[7:19] <blockh34d> omg their website is intolerably lame
[7:19] <SirLagz> my AC is controlled via IR, so if I wanted to hack it, I'd just blast IR signals at the AC unit heh
[7:19] <blockh34d> it works enough to show me the page
[7:19] <blockh34d> then put soemthing else over the page and demand i enable javascript
[7:19] <blockh34d> like 'we could show you this content, but first we want to infest your computer with spyware!'
[7:20] <blockh34d> :/
[7:20] * achim (~achim@p5DDC666C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Client Quit)
[7:20] <Twist-> I'm not going to engage on that topic.
[7:20] <blockh34d> probably best, i have a wild, fringe opinion
[7:21] <blockh34d> there are very few sites i allow to execute javascript
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[7:22] <toeshred> i hate when a page with very simple content uses javascript to the point where the small amount of content is completely hidden until you enable javascript.
[7:23] <blockh34d> toeshred: its no accident, imo
[7:23] <blockh34d> they use the content to induce you into taking security risks
[7:23] <blockh34d> might as well get robbed by the UPS guy
[7:24] <toeshred> like a single paragraph is all the page has, with some links and a huge number of facebook, twitter, instagram scripts. And that one paragraph of actual page content is invisible until you enable scripts.
[7:24] <blockh34d> try viewing source sometime
[7:24] <blockh34d> or even worse, look at all the invisible 'gifs'
[7:24] <blockh34d> 1x1 'gifs' that are actually cgi scripts
[7:24] <blockh34d> the output one invisible transparent non-image, and when you request that, they log everything about you they can extract out of your browser
[7:25] <toeshred> those are the types of sites that deserve to be defaced.
[7:25] * Twist- pours one out for personal privacy.
[7:25] <blockh34d> javascript doesnt really help with that much, however many of these places use javascript to actually create that element, so it helps a little
[7:25] <blockh34d> i'm about to go even more draconian
[7:26] <blockh34d> lynx, all day, every day. nothing but lynx.
[7:26] <blockh34d> maybe a custom lynx that sterilizes the html even more than usual
[7:27] <blockh34d> toeshred: seriously that is every single commercial website i can think of... especially stuff with general consumption content (clickbait)
[7:28] <hybr1d8> Too risky - I prefer 'echo "GET /" | nc localhost 80 | hexdump' then reading the raw hex :P
[7:28] <blockh34d> years ago i made a demo, back before rubyon rails/ajax etc... all it did was use those invisble gifs to make it so eveyrone that was currently on the page transmitted the current position of their mouse cursor to eveyrone else
[7:28] <hybr1d8> (replacing / and localhost with relevant hostname/address of course - I'm not crazy or anything)
[7:28] <blockh34d> so it just looked like a ltitle flock of cursors
[7:29] <blockh34d> i like it hybr1d8, looks like a winner to me
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[8:20] <johnc-> rpi_audio_create: Assertion `error == OMX_ErrorNone' failed.
[8:20] <johnc-> damn
[8:24] * oh2lre (~oh2lre@a88-114-54-98.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has left #raspberrypi
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[8:29] <blockh34d> lol what a horrible error
[8:29] <johnc-> the error reported is ErrHardware
[8:29] <johnc-> grr
[8:29] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@ Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[8:30] <blockh34d> it looked more funny than errhardware at first glance
[8:30] <blockh34d> 'our ability to fail because of this error failed! Quick, exit app now!'
[8:31] <johnc-> you're not a programmer are you
[8:34] <johnc-> yay fixed
[8:38] * Aergan (~Aergan@host109-157-32-45.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:43] <blockh34d> i program a lot actually
[8:43] <blockh34d> why would you think otherwise?
[8:43] <blockh34d> you know assertion = intentional failure yah?
[8:44] * Aergan (~Aergan@host109-157-32-45.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[8:45] <blockh34d> so 'Assertion `error == OMX_ErrorNone' failed.' = "our ability to intentionally fail, because of error message ERROR_NONE failed! Because of that, the app will now exit'
[8:45] <blockh34d> thats how i read it anyways
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[10:59] <[Saint]> Hahahaha!
[10:59] <[Saint]> My sister in law just trashed her S5.
[11:00] <[Saint]> She argued with me about the range of its liquid protection capabilities.
[11:00] <[Saint]> The argument culminated in her submerging it completely, upside down, in our sink.
[11:00] <FR^2> Ouch
[11:00] <shiftplusone> O_o
[11:00] <[Saint]> It died *immediately*.
[11:00] <gordonDrogon> S5 is a phone?
[11:01] <[Saint]> And all the warranty tabs for liquid detection are tripped.
[11:01] <FR^2> samsung galaxy s5
[11:01] <[Saint]> Ever. Single. One.
[11:01] <FR^2> :D
[11:01] <FR^2> [Saint]: dumbness must be punished!
[11:01] <[Saint]> The look on her face...priceless.
[11:02] <gordonDrogon> oh well - if it was clean water - remove all the removable stuff, leave in a dry airy place for a few days and it might recover.
[11:02] <mgottschlag> [Saint]: heh, that think is IP67 rated, so here that would have been a clear case for warranty
[11:02] <mgottschlag> *that thing
[11:02] <[Saint]> I got myself slapped for offering to buy it for parts.
[11:02] <gordonDrogon> isn't IP676 just rain/splash proof?
[11:03] <[Saint]> mgottschlag: only if its submerged right side up, pointing upwards.
[11:03] <[Saint]> Its only covered for brief full submersion in that one edge case.
[11:04] <gordonDrogon> actually 67 is water tight to 1m
[11:04] * gordonDrogon just checked.
[11:04] <mgottschlag> [Saint]: wtf, can you get the certification for limited cases? I seriously doubt that
[11:05] <[Saint]> There's a statement from out telco on their page to the effect that that is only true for a specific orientation.
[11:05] <[Saint]> Otherwise the USB port let's too much water in.
[11:06] <mgottschlag> [Saint]: the official samsung warranty does not have *any* such limitations
[11:06] <mgottschlag> only " improper closure of the back cover of the Samsung Galaxy S5, S5 Mini or S4 Active Mobile Phone; or"
[11:06] <[Saint]> Also IP* ratings are largely bull crap anyway...so, there's that.
[11:06] <shiftplusone> hell, my brother had a phone which was marketed as waterproof. Another galaxy Ssomething active. Died when dropped in water too. But they replaced it.
[11:06] <mgottschlag> yeah, but usually they are a pretty good legal assurance if covered by warranty
[11:06] <mgottschlag> also, I submerged a motorola defy more than once :D
[11:06] <[Saint]> They don't say "proof" anywhere here.
[11:07] <[Saint]> Just "resistant".
[11:07] <mgottschlag> they say ip67, that's a pretty strict definition of "resistant"
[11:07] <mgottschlag> all she needs is someone who gives here some legal backing that she didn't submerge it for more than 30 minutes, e.g. you\
[11:08] <mgottschlag> -\
[11:08] <[Saint]> I doubt that'd work. All the liquid detection tabs are tripped.
[11:08] <[Saint]> They'd never believe it.
[11:08] <[Saint]> Even though it is true
[11:08] <mgottschlag> well, she has someone who can state that she did not violate the restrictions
[11:09] <[Saint]> Its sitting in alcohol presently.
[11:09] <[Saint]> We might get it back.
[11:09] <[Saint]> Though I doubt it.
[11:09] <mgottschlag> so at least here this case would have a pretty high chance of success
[11:09] * zz_uccio is now known as uccio
[11:10] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:11] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:11] * linuxstb (~linuxstb@unaffiliated/linuxstb) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:11] <mgottschlag> at this point, the main problem really is that the warranty does not cover the device being submerged in alcohol :D
[11:13] <[Saint]> Heh. :)
[11:13] <[Saint]> Ohhhh...that's interesting.
[11:13] <[Saint]> Battery ballooned.
[11:13] <[Saint]> She's dead, Jim.
[11:14] <[Saint]> Well, the battery is for sure.
[11:14] <[Saint]> I'll know about the rest at some point tomorrow I suppose.
[11:14] <tanuva> Guess the battery got drunk
[11:15] <Hoerie> so submerging in alcohol was to dry it out? Wouldn't the solvent aspect be a bit problematic?
[11:15] * phelix (~phelix@24-119-144-139.cpe.cableone.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[11:15] <[Saint]> Nah.
[11:16] <[Saint]> Pure alcohol bath is the standard fix for complete immersion.
[11:16] <mgottschlag> Hoerie: alcohol is regularly used during production to clean the PCBs
[11:16] * phelix (~phelix@24-119-144-139.cpe.cableone.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:16] <[Saint]> I think the balloon may be from shorting.
[11:16] <[Saint]> It was dirty crappy just washed the dishes water.
[11:16] <Hoerie> yes, but a complete cellphone might contain parts that don't agree with alcohol
[11:17] <[Saint]> I've never had an issue with it before now .
[11:17] <[Saint]> I've rescued a few devices this way.
[11:17] * Tripout (~Tripout@178-26-45-238-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:17] <Hoerie> in another channel I am in, someone just discovered that alcohol and the silver colour of his mouse do not agree with each other ;-)
[11:18] <[Saint]> A mate of mine used acetone by accident once.
[11:18] <[Saint]> That ended badly.
[11:18] <Hoerie> yes, I would imagine that could be detrimental
[11:19] <shiftplusone> ...>.>
[11:19] * shiftplusone tried to use acetone to clean something plastic once
[11:20] <[Saint]> In this instance it pretty much turned the chassis into jelly.
[11:20] <[Saint]> I think I have a pic saved somewhere.
[11:22] <Tripout> dish washer soap and water. and after that, dry the electric stuff a long time with air or dry rice.
[11:23] * chaotic (~chaotic@unaffiliated/chaotic) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[11:26] <Tripout> i have a problem with my sd card. pi was running now for maybe three weeks. yesterday the system wasn't responding anymore. I did a hardware reboot, and since then the system isn't booting anymore. Tried formating with SD Formater with Win32 DiskImager and tried formating with ubuntu device tool and the dd command. Both without success. Do anybody have an advice for me?
[11:27] <shiftplusone> Tripout, does the ACT led glow dimly?
[11:28] <Tripout> it is shortly blinking two times after connecting power sup, then its off.
[11:28] <shiftplusone> ah, that's good.
[11:29] <shiftplusone> I'll check what that means
[11:29] <Hoerie> I have once or twice had to use the sdcard.org SD formatter to get my SD cards to work again - normal formats with win32 disk imager didn't work
[11:29] <Tripout> tried another sd card, that one is working very well.
[11:30] <shiftplusone> nothing... two flashes is not a thing
[11:30] <shiftplusone> sure it's 2 times?
[11:31] * utack (~utack@mnch-5d86625f.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[11:31] <shiftplusone> if it's two, you've got power issues most likely
[11:32] <Tripout> two long and one short in the middle
[11:32] * SiC (~Simon@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:32] <shiftplusone> sounds like power issue alright
[11:32] <shiftplusone> got a multimeter?
[11:33] <Tripout> and i used SD Formater V4.0 @ Hoerie
[11:33] <Tripout> shiftplusone, i don't have one here at the moment.
[11:34] <Hoerie> <Tripout> and i used SD Formater V4.0 @ Hoerie <-- that's me out of ideas then, but power is often the issue
[11:34] <Tripout> what i don't unterstand, also without measuring any voltages... why is one card working, and the other isn't? when if it a power problem, shouldn't there be a problem with both card?
[11:35] <shiftplusone> yeah
[11:35] <shiftplusone> but if it has power-problem-like symptoms... check it first, since it takes 5 seconds to rule out.
[11:36] <Tripout> k
[11:36] <[Saint]> l
[11:37] <[Saint]> ...mnop.
[11:37] <Tripout> would be very interesting the the the act. vol. of power sup.
[11:37] <Tripout> oh, see the i meant ^
[11:39] <[Saint]> It may well be that you hit the end of the cards usable lifespan.
[11:39] <[Saint]> It is finite, after all.
[11:40] <[Saint]> When they eventually fail they either just die abruptly or expose a bunch of weird psuedo-symptoms.
[11:40] * utack (~utack@mnch-4d0471c1.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:42] <Tripout> yes, would be a very short living period. maybe it was a bad idea to run the sql database on sd card. card is read and writeable under win 7 and ubuntu. i'm very confused, but it's interesting. ^^
[11:43] <[Saint]> Hmmmm.
[11:44] <[Saint]> I have a pretty large SQL database that's pretty heavily accessed running on a pi.
[11:44] <shiftplusone> sql on a pi, yes, very bad a idea.
[11:44] <[Saint]> For almost a year now.
[11:45] <shiftplusone> ...bad a idea... I fail at english =/
[11:45] <shiftplusone> [Saint], have checked how it copes with power loss?
[11:46] <[Saint]> Aye! Whatdya do...eh? You speak-a de English fine, ah?
[11:46] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: yep...very, very, very badly.
[11:46] <shiftplusone> thought so
[11:47] <shiftplusone> inode issues?
[11:47] <[Saint]> Its on a UPS though.
[11:47] <[Saint]> And, yes.
[11:47] <Tripout> haha nice ^^
[11:47] <[Saint]> I've gotten away with it a couple of times
[11:47] <[Saint]> But I wouldn't bet on it.
[11:47] <shiftplusone> it should be mostly harmless, just force it to fsck
[11:48] * [Saint] nods
[11:49] <[Saint]> The db gets backed up twice daily.
[11:50] <[Saint]> So I'm not too worried about it
[11:50] <[Saint]> Worst case scenario I'll lose 12h of logs.
[11:52] <Tripout> i'm a new linux user, so the fsck command sound interesting to me. ;)
[11:52] <Tripout> in case of the raspberry pi and sd card.
[11:53] <[Saint]> File System ChecK
[11:53] <[Saint]> ...not a misspelled expletive.
[11:53] <[Saint]> ;)
[11:53] * cccyRegeaneWolfe is now known as cccy_RegeaneWolf
[11:54] <[Saint]> By default / should force a fsck run if the dirty bit gets set iirc.
[11:54] <gordonDrogon> [Saint], File System Consistency checK ..
[11:55] <[Saint]> Ahhh. I stand corrected.
[11:57] * AndrevS (~andrevs@2001:980:55e0:1:2e44:fdff:fe65:84ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:00] * sutty\away (~die@please.dont.touch.me.no-purpose.eu) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
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[12:08] <Tripout> i think i have to buy a new sd card. :-/
[12:08] <Tripout> class 4 should be enough or?
[12:08] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:08] <shiftplusone> yes
[12:08] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:09] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:09] <gordonDrogon> if in the UK, then get one from the foundation swag shop - they're class 6 and I've found them to be generally quite good.
[12:09] <Tripout> I'm not in the uk, but thx. :)
[12:11] * sutty (~die@please.dont.touch.me.no-purpose.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:11] <mpmc> I've found that Class 4/6 cards quite fast, class 10 are slow...
[12:12] <gordonDrogon> its often hit & miss.... theory is well and good, but who knows.
[12:12] <gordonDrogon> e.g. c10 is good for streaming writes (and reads) ie. good for HD video storage. not so good for random access/small files.
[12:13] <gordonDrogon> but some people have reported good results with some c10 cards, so ...
[12:14] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[12:14] <gordonDrogon> I think it's more important to get a quality make from a reputable source than anything else. seen too many problems with cheap cads off ebay, etc.
[12:14] <gordonDrogon> same for power supplies, really.
[12:15] * datagutt_ (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:15] <gordonDrogon> although the B+ appears more tolerant of dodgy power supplies, there's no substitute for something good there, IMO.
[12:15] <mpmc> gordonDrogon: I've used Integral Ultra 'Pro' 20MB/s cards, and they're extremely slow. not sure why though. I bought some cheap Kodak 4GB C4 ones 2 for £6 and they're much faster! :/
[12:15] <[Saint]> Reahahead can make a HUGE difference in performance, too.
[12:16] <[Saint]> And depends on individual use case.
[12:16] <Tripout> my last one was the 16gb sd4 card from kingston.
[12:16] * t0mab (~t0mab@stakhanov.u-strasbg.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:16] <[Saint]> Depends how large the files you're dealing with are on average.
[12:16] * Natch (~Natch@c-0ecce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[12:16] * datagutt (~datagutt@unaffiliated/datagutt) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[12:17] <Tripout> and i think i will try just to boot by sd and run the whole system on a usb stick
[12:17] <[Saint]> Highly recommend.
[12:17] <mpmc> I was installing raspbian-netinstall-ua on mine took 15-20 mins on the c4, 45+ on the c10 'Pro' card..
[12:18] <mpmc> the 20MB/s must be read only..
[12:19] <[Saint]> Lots of accesses if tiny files is a pretty terrible use case for cards prioritized for reading large files.
[12:19] <[Saint]> *of tiny
[12:20] * shivers (~shivers@c80-216-59-240.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:20] <[Saint]> The speed ratings given are /terribly/ misleading.
[12:20] <[Saint]> And not really terribly meaningful
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> I woudn't say terribly misleading.
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> They're not that accurate.
[12:20] <[Saint]> Very little meaningful data is presented on the packaging or statistics.
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> When a card that quotes 15 megabytes/s hits 40K/s ...
[12:21] <[Saint]> 15Mb...contiguous, bulk transfer.
[12:22] <[Saint]> Random access? Haha..buts to you, guy.
[12:22] <[Saint]> *nuts
[12:23] <shiftplusone> buts worked too
[12:23] <gordonDrogon> coming to you on a big screen soon ..... Card Wars! A story of a poor Pi and its craving for storage ...
[12:23] <mpmc> Gotta love it when they stick buzz words like 'Pro' on things though. 'Oh it's a Pro model/version it must be awesome! BUY BUY BUY!"
[12:24] <[Saint]> I use SanDisk Extreme Pro 2 Super Über Mega-10000 Backflip Ninja UHS-II cards, or, something to that effect.
[12:24] <mpmc> Lol!
[12:24] <gordonDrogon> [Saint], hey, I have those too!
[12:28] <ShorTie> lol, Card Wars!
[12:28] * SpeedEvil wishes SD cards would just support a 'get out of my way' mode.
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> Expose actual eraseblocks.
[12:29] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[12:29] <ShorTie> those memory pins on the B+, could they be use as like eeprom for the booting and everything else on a flash drive ??
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> ShorTie: As far as I understand it, nothing has been revealed as to what the memory does
[12:30] <[Saint]> Yeah, its been kinda vague
[12:30] <shiftplusone> what is?\
[12:30] <ShorTie> sounds like my memory .. :/~
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> It could be anything from a (really slow) boot ROM, to authorisation hardware to enable specific software to run
[12:30] <shiftplusone> the eeprom thing?
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> To IDs for 'shields'.
[12:31] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[12:31] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[12:31] <shiftplusone> it will have things like vendor id, product id, revision and so on, which will allow default pin configuration to be set, a kernel module to be loaded or whatever
[12:32] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Seems likely.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> But why.
[12:32] <shiftplusone> the bootrom does actually support booting over i2c, so if somebody bothers to write support for it, the pi could boot of it... but probably won't.
[12:32] * hyperair (hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:32] <ShorTie> need some 1 to scope out the compute module and see if that memory is hooked up the same way, hehe.
[12:33] <shiftplusone> SpeedEvil, for add-on boards. O_o Right now the pi makes a lot of assumptions
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> I mean - I understand in principle why you'd want an ID on addon cards, but if you can't setup one command line entry in a config file to represent your card - well... you're gonna have a bad time.
[12:33] <shiftplusone> if you use a config file, you're leaving it up to the user
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> If you're not using a config file, you imply some sort of driver preloaded into the eeprom.
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> Or a automatic download from somewhere, which presumes internet.
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> There is no sane way to get it universal.
[12:36] * geordie (~geordie@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> (BIOS like cards, or interpreted drivers and in-kernel interpreters or binary blob loaders are not sane ways)
[12:37] <shiftplusone> eh? if all that happens is that the firmware sets up a pin config based on the information in the eeprom, it's already a win.
[12:37] * dc5ala (~dc5ala@stgt-4d03b5c1.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> 'the firmware' - are you implying this is done by the GPU bootloader?
[12:38] <shiftplusone> sure, default pin configuration has always been handled by the gpu
[12:38] <shiftplusone> if something in kernel or user space wants to use the ID, that's also a win, no?
[12:39] * Visage (visage@pdpc/supporter/active/visage) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> I don't see the benefit if it takes 1s, or 20s to setup the pins, personally.
[12:39] <shiftplusone> 1s or 20s? it will take the same amount of time
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> 1s - loading the pin state from the GPU/config, vs loading from linux
[12:40] * almostworking (~iam@pool-108-48-14-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has left #raspberrypi
[12:40] <shiftplusone> not sure I understand
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> I don't see the point of automatically setting up the pin configurations - past simply tristating them all.
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> Actually, on reflection, that's not quite true.
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> If it supported 'boot from SPI' that may be useful.
[12:42] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Or boot from ethernet
[12:43] <gordonDrogon> the boot rom isnisde the SoC is really fixed & cant be changed at this point - so we're limited to booting via the means that have been published. Ethernt isn't one of them!
[12:43] <shiftplusone> That's all fine until you have a variety of addon boards wanting to use different pin configurations. Either the user has to tell which board is attached or assumptions need to be made. Seems sensible to be able to identify what's actually attached before doing anything.
[12:44] <gordonDrogon> it's actualy very sensible to assume that pins are in a completely unconfigured state when you initialise your hardware...
[12:44] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon, if u-boot or something can be loaded off an eeprom... but who's going to write support for that.
[12:44] * tanuva (~tanuva@HSI-KBW-46-223-128-116.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> Nobody can, other than people who have signed the NDA
[12:45] <gordonDrogon> shiftplusone, sure - but to boot u-boot you need to load a bootloader off something the soc can load a bootloader from ...
[12:45] <shiftplusone> aye
[12:45] * gordonDrogon looks at the hole in his bucket ...
[12:46] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:47] <gordonDrogon> (reference to a circular deadlock situation for those who don't know)
[12:47] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon, the eeprom IS something the SoC can load bootrom.bin from (afaik)
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> shiftplusone: what's your source for this?
[12:48] <gordonDrogon> shiftplusone, sure - but someone has to write that code - and that code then has to know that there is an ethernet interface, etc. that someone is a boradcom staff or NDAd external ...
[12:48] <shiftplusone> but again, in theory. bootcode.bin to u-boot is actually a huge leap
[12:49] <gordonDrogon> SpeedEvil, there was a posting to the forums recently where james detailled the 5 ways the SoC canboot.
[12:49] <shiftplusone> no argument there, it's unlikely to happen.
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> gordonDrogon: ah
[12:50] <shiftplusone> well that's not my source for it, but yeah, it's out there.
[12:50] * tanuva (~tanuva@HSI-KBW-46-223-128-116.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:51] <gordonDrogon> I'm not convinced abotu this I2C eeprom to set pin states either - I have written critical code for control systems (where a wrong move can either kill someone or destroy 500,000 worth of machine tool) and relying on the microcontroller's IO being set to some thing particular wasn't part of the game.
[12:51] <gordonDrogon> it may work well for little Pi projects though.
[12:52] <gordonDrogon> but I think it makes programmers lazy - the feedback I see from some wiringPi programs has been somewhat .. creative... (aka scary)
[12:52] * tanuva (~tanuva@HSI-KBW-46-223-128-116.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Client Quit)
[12:53] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[12:53] <mpmc> gordonDrogon: Have you killed anyone yet? (I hope not!!)
[12:53] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon, think of something like the wolfson (or whatever the company is) audio board. Nothing lazy about it.
[12:53] <gordonDrogon> mpmc, not to my knowledge!
[12:54] <shiftplusone> or a weather board of some sort. You still need to write all the code, you just have a way to make sure that what you think is attached is actually attached.
[12:54] <shiftplusone> if you don't have to set the pins functions, that's not much of a time saver
[12:54] <gordonDrogon> shiftplusone, ok - a board ID function might be useful.
[12:55] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:56] <gordonDrogon> mpmc, once upon a time, did a lot of work in a big industrial engineering research lab - robotics, factory automation, etc.... there were places in the lab that were strict no-go without physical and computer lock systems...
[12:58] <mpmc> Sounds cool!
[12:58] <gordonDrogon> it was! 25+ years ago for me now.
[12:59] <gordonDrogon> I miss it - but then I moved from there into the world of supercomputers - and that was just as fun...
[12:59] <mpmc> 25 years ago I would have been 2 years old lol!
[13:00] <shiftplusone> so was gordonDrogon D=
[13:00] <mpmc> lol!
[13:01] <gordonDrogon> er ...
[13:01] <mpmc> My earliest computer memory would be er, pong I think it was called, not sure what machine it was on but it was wooden and had paddles!
[13:02] <shiftplusone> https://github.com/raspberrypi/hats
[13:02] <shiftplusone> just published
[13:02] <gordonDrogon> there was a stand-up arcade cabinet pong - but 25 years ago we were into 3D cabinet games as well as home consoles.
[13:02] <mpmc> I can still remember the noise it used to make as well lol.
[13:04] <gordonDrogon> shiftplusone, intersting. so no serial by default then.
[13:05] <shiftplusone> I may still be on by default if no hat is attached
[13:06] <shiftplusone> but I'm just speculating here
[13:06] <gordonDrogon> ok
[13:06] <gordonDrogon> that would make sense though.
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[13:08] <shiftplusone> stackable hats seem like they might be a nightmare
[13:08] <gordonDrogon> yes - especially if they're going to use all 40-pins - insertion/removal force is high!
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[13:14] <shiftplusone> no default pin configuration either, so I was wrong there
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[13:14] <gordonDrogon> inputs with the pull up/down set as per the manual. that's "safe" (for some value of safe ;-)
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[13:15] <iceCalt> My earliest computer memory was being player 2 :I
[13:15] <shiftplusone> aye, but no ability for a hat to say 'start is like this..."
[13:15] <shiftplusone> which is probably good
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[13:34] <Tripout> got now a 8gb sd card. san disk class 4. :) really ridicoulous that it's as expensive as a 2gb card in this shop. -.-
[13:35] <Tripout> but too expensive compared to online prices.
[13:38] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable167.12-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:38] * lazy_prince (~killer_pr@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[13:39] <MY123> Tripout: Normal. But at least in a reputable store, I haven't to worry about delivery time or fakes.
[13:40] <Tripout> thats it. :)
[13:41] <[Saint]> If you stick a bunch of SD cards in a room together, maybe with some smooth jazz playing, eventually they'll breed and you'll get uSD cards.
[13:41] <[Saint]> True story.
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[13:41] <Tripout> does it have to be jazz? xD
[13:42] <[Saint]> As long as it sets the mood right.
[13:42] <[Saint]> Maybe might some candles.
[13:42] <[Saint]> *light
[13:42] <[Saint]> :)
[13:43] <Tripout> but jazz is a good opinion right now. do you have a nice set that i can listen to?
[13:44] <Tripout> card flashing is done, and pi is running as cute as on it's first day. ^^
[13:45] <MY123> Tripout: You should choose MicroSD.
[13:46] <Tripout> why? i just want to have the sd card for the boot process.
[13:46] <Hoerie> <Tripout> does it have to be jazz? xD <-- just make it Barry White
[13:47] <Tripout> i also got a 64gb usb flash drive
[13:48] <MY123> Tripout: Because the new Pis are with MicroSD (model b+ and the not-yet-released a+).
[13:50] <Tripout> Hoerie, i usually don't listen to mr. white when i'm alone. i prefer something like the music from mr. goodman.
[13:51] * blockh34d (~pi@unaffiliated/blockh34d) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[13:52] <Tripout> MY123, but i don't want to have a new raspi. the hardware is strong enough for my use. and also i don't like uSD because i'll loose it somewhere. ^ ^
[13:52] <Tripout> was just asking for a jazz special tipp btw. something i should listen to.
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[14:54] <Tripout> the pi is a lot faster from usb drive
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[15:01] <pothibo> Tripout of course
[15:01] <pothibo> I'm trying to pipe my log to less : go test | less but I can't navigate... I'm quite a noob in redirection & stuff.
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[15:02] <gordonDrogon> pothibo, piping into less like that should work. less uses arrow keys, spacebar, page up/down ... all the sensible keys to move up & down.
[15:02] * supermat (supermat@unaffiliated/supermat) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:03] <gordonDrogon> however your program needs to output newlines - it's all line-orientated.
[15:03] <pothibo> gordonDrogon it doesn't as soon as I touch a key, it feeds new line the height of the window :(
[15:03] <james_olympus> pothibo: That looks correct, use j (down) and k (up) or the arrow keys to navigate in less. Are you sure the program logs to stdout? You might need "go test 2>&1 | less"
[15:03] <gordonDrogon> less would normally clear the screen then output it page at a time.
[15:04] <pothibo> james_olympus boom. You got it
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[15:04] <gordonDrogon> james_olympus, urk. no-one uses hjkl since they put arrow keys on keyboards - 25+ years ago...
[15:04] <pothibo> I guess it logs to stderr
[15:04] <pothibo> gordonDrogon I use hjkl every day
[15:04] <gordonDrogon> why? you have arrow keys.
[15:05] <pothibo> Vim user
[15:05] <mgottschlag> I'd love to have some arroy keys in a position where I don't need to move my right hand to use them
[15:05] <gordonDrogon> I use vim too - and vi before that.
[15:05] <pothibo> gordonDrogon I'm not going into dogmes this morning. Use what you want, I'll do the same.
[15:05] <pothibo> dogmas*
[15:05] * dblessing (~drewb@h210.236.190.173.static.ip.windstream.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] <mgottschlag> *arrow
[15:07] <pothibo> mgottschlag the hjkl is useful in the scenario you described
[15:07] <mgottschlag> yeah, except that most programs don't support it
[15:07] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Excess Flood)
[15:07] <gordonDrogon> sure - maybe I just got too used to bigger keyboard way back..
[15:08] <mgottschlag> also, jkl; > hjkl, except that one is not compatible to different keyboard layouts -.-
[15:08] <mgottschlag> (e.g. most i3 configs use jkl; by default to switch between windows)
[15:08] <pothibo> mgottschlag agreed. I'm currently testing out Atom.io (First editor I use outside of vim for the last 4 years) and I miss the hjkl layout
[15:09] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[15:10] <mgottschlag> the german neo keyboard layout has arrow keys somewhere in the left hand area on the third or so layer
[15:10] <mgottschlag> if only there wasn't such a thing as muscle memory... -.-
[15:10] <tanuva> (which is really useful)
[15:11] * mgottschlag already switched from german layout to us-intl because it's so much better for programming
[15:11] * supermat (supermat@unaffiliated/supermat) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:11] <mgottschlag> *from german qwertz
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[15:37] <gordonDrogon> mgottschlag, qwertz ? Hm. for some odd reason I thought the german layout was azerty - now wondering what country that was...
[15:37] <gordonDrogon> ah, france.
[15:37] * mac_ified (~mac_ified@rrcs-24-227-77-162.se.biz.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:38] <Encrypt> gordonDrogon, YEs o/
[15:38] * chaotic (~chaotic@unaffiliated/chaotic) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:38] <Encrypt> But I have a friend who uses BEPO
[15:38] <Encrypt> Y
[15:38] <Encrypt> I have never tried, but apprently that's better
[15:38] <Encrypt> apparently*
[15:39] <gordonDrogon> I learned to type (badly) on an old mechanical typewriter. the only other type of keyboard I've tried is a quinkey - a chording thing. I got quite good at it, but forgot how to use it as quickly as I learned...
[15:40] <Encrypt> :O
[15:40] * Helldesk (tee@krouvi.kahvipannu.fi) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:40] <Encrypt> gordonDrogon, Is it as good as what people are saying?
[15:41] <Encrypt> (The TypeMatrix keyboard)
[15:43] <gordonDrogon> I was never convinced...
[15:43] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:44] <Encrypt> Ok :p
[15:44] <gordonDrogon> the biggest issue for me was that I had to use many different systems - all with different keyboard layouts - this was 25-30 years ago.
[15:44] * RaTTuS|BIG (~Rattus.bi@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[15:45] <gordonDrogon> I only had one Quinkey device on my BBC Micro - but I spent as much time there as on an Apple II and a ADM3A terminal to a cp/m system and an original IBM PC/XT (I think that was what it was!)
[15:46] <pothibo> testing on GPIO is such a pain in the ass.
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[15:47] <gordonDrogon> pothibo, what is it you're testing?
[15:48] <pothibo> Command execution through socket
[15:48] <gordonDrogon> doesn't sound terribly gpio though ...
[15:48] <pothibo> Can't test it on faster hardware because of the GPIO access
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[16:26] <skulltip> is the retro pie an OS, or run on the OS? In other words, can I install other apps or programs on retro pi?
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[16:39] <sla_erick> anyone in the US that knows where I can get a good deal/price w/free shipping on the B+ model?
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[16:43] <gordonDrogon> sla_erick, I'm not in the US, but the usual outlets - e14, adafruit, newark ?
[16:43] * ponA (Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-254-230.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[16:44] <sla_erick> e14 redirects to mcm electronics, good price but little expensive shipping, no free shipping under $200
[16:45] <sla_erick> adafruit has a $40 B+ + shipping & tax
[16:45] <gordonDrogon> Hm. they were supposed to be $35 too.
[16:45] * cccy_RegeaneWolf is now known as cccyRegeaneWolfe
[16:46] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[16:47] <sla_erick> newark has it on $35 but stock expected to ship on Aug 4
[16:48] <gordonDrogon> might have to just suck up those extra few $ ...
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[16:48] <sla_erick> i think so :(
[16:48] * omgmog (~omgmog@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:49] <gordonDrogon> it costs me about �30 here - but I get free postage.
[16:49] * omgmog (~omgmog@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:49] <gordonDrogon> about $51 right now.
[16:50] * darkbasic_ (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:50] <sla_erick> But did you pay the same price of the model B in £ with your new purchase of model b+?
[16:51] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[16:51] <gordonDrogon> yea, same price.
[16:51] <MY123> sla_erick: In France, it is a little more expensive( 2€ diff).
[16:52] * SiC (~Simon@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:52] <sla_erick> thats the thing with Adafruit... they are selling it more than the suposed same price
[16:53] * Alina-malina (Alina-mali@unaffiliated/alina-malina) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:53] <gordonDrogon> they're entitled to sell at what they think people will pay..
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[16:53] <gordonDrogon> which doesn't make it right, but when you have a choice...
[16:54] <Hoerie> maybe you can order with RS and get it in 9 months or so
[16:54] <MY123> In France, it is a choice between fast delivery times (Kubii by Premier Farnell) and lower prices(RS).
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[16:55] <Hoerie> I'm pretty happy with my early model Bs
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[16:56] <gordonDrogon> I got a brand new B/2 last week too!
[16:57] <gordonDrogon> and a B+ on the same day.
[16:57] <gordonDrogon> https://projects.drogon.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/b-b+.jpg
[16:57] <gordonDrogon> and cool Coup� cases for them.
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[16:59] <Hoerie> <gordonDrogon> https://projects.drogon.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/b-b+.jpg <-- looking swanky
[17:00] <shiftplusone> the coupe case doesn't seem much different to a pibow with the top layer off. What's the point?
[17:00] <gordonDrogon> you keep the top-layer on - which is a few layers down, so you can plug boards into the gpio without any danger of them touching the Pi mainboard.
[17:00] <mgottschlag> ah, nice, so they fixed the annoying "USB is much more to the edge than network" problem :D
[17:01] <Hoerie> one of mine is in an opaque white case powered by a white nokia lumia charger stuck on one of my tv/utp/power sockets. Looks pretty sleek
[17:01] <mgottschlag> didn't see that from earlier photos, I had assumed that they had kept network/usb in the same places for compatibility
[17:01] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/IMG_20140714_144229.jpg
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[17:08] <johnc-> woot, my .NET audio library has rpi support :D
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[17:54] <skulltip> I thought under $40 at amazon
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[17:57] <cousteau> is everything on the RPi connected to the same USB bus?
[17:57] <cousteau> Ethernet, both USBs, SD card... what else?
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[18:01] <shiftplusone> not sd
[18:01] <cousteau> oh
[18:01] <shiftplusone> just ethernet
[18:01] <cousteau> and how is said USB bus controlled by the ARM? bit-banging? dedicated hardware in the ARM? an external USB controller?
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> Internal USB controller
[18:02] <shiftplusone> https://www.synopsys.com/dw/ipdir.php?ds=dwc_usb_2_0_hs_otg
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> Connected to a huyb
[18:04] <cousteau> so it's an internal IP that is part of the ARM itself
[18:04] <cousteau> i.e. dedicated HW in the ARM
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[18:05] <cousteau> wasn't there something more connected to the hub? Ethernet, USBs...
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[18:05] <cousteau> (maybe it was wifi and memory stick, when connected via USB)
[18:06] <whiskers75> Is it possible to connect my old Virgin Media v+ box (which outputs via SCART) to my Pi and use it to record programmes off the box?
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[18:10] <cousteau> is there any block diagram of the RPi available? not the schematics, just a simplified diagram showing how everything is interconnected
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[18:12] <shiftplusone> nope
[18:13] <shiftplusone> anything you connect over usb is obviously going to be connected... via usb. The only thing that uses USB on the pi itself is that hub/ethernet chip
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[18:13] <gordonDrogon> cousteau, what are you thinking of using a Pi for?
[18:14] <gordonDrogon> whiskers75, no analog input to the Pi for video...
[18:14] <cousteau> gordonDrogon, inspiration for other systems
[18:15] <whiskers75> gordonDrogon: what about a USB adapter?
[18:15] <whiskers75> gordonDrogon: like http://www.amazon.co.uk/August-VGB100-External-Video-Editing/dp/B008F0SARC/
[18:15] <gordonDrogon> cousteau, the schematics of the model B are online - somewhere, but really, there's not a lot to it. SoC with arm+gpu and memory on-top - SD interface, USB interface, hdmi/cdi/dsi and some user acessible gpio ..
[18:15] <cousteau> I see...
[18:16] <shiftplusone> inspiration for another system?
[18:16] <gordonDrogon> whiskers75, I've really no idea - if it looks like a web-cam you might be in with a chance...
[18:16] <shiftplusone> making a watermelon pi or something? =/
[18:16] <cousteau> we're working with an embedded system we designed ourselves (well, not me, someone else at work) that uses SPI to communicate with an Ethernet, which is slow as heck I think
[18:16] <whiskers75> gordonDrogon: other solution: that thing looks like it can digitize stuff
[18:16] <cousteau> so I was thinking on proposing them to interconnect everything via a USB hub as the RPi does
[18:16] <shiftplusone> aye, spi-ethernet adapters are great, but slow
[18:16] <whiskers75> gordonDrogon: it's ewww, but I might just have to use my old copy of window$
[18:16] <gordonDrogon> SPI ethernet works, but needs a lot of host support.
[18:17] <cousteau> shiftplusone, I guess they're intended for a basic Ethernet connection with no speed in mind
[18:17] <gordonDrogon> cousteau, USB2 is 420Mb/sec - so if you have the drivers, etc., it's more than fast enough.
[18:17] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[18:17] <cousteau> I'd probably need a USB IP
[18:17] <shiftplusone> cousteau, aye. Bare metal programming folk like to use them on the pi since it's easier to use SPI than set up a whole USB stack, for example.
[18:17] <cousteau> ...or make my own; is it hard? (an FPGA is involved)
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[18:18] <gordonDrogon> whiskers75, if that device can do the real-time digitizing (ie. look liek a usb camera) then you might be in with a chance - I'd see if there are Linux drivers for other systems first though...
[18:18] <shiftplusone> cousteau, I can't imagine it being easy
[18:18] <cousteau> the USB protocol looks rather simple as described in the Wikipedia
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[18:18] <shiftplusone> heh
[18:19] <shiftplusone> famous last words
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[18:19] <whiskers75> gordonDrogon: I don't really need the pi to do it - the pi's running XBMC
[18:19] * JakeSays (~quassel@chat.thatswhatjakesaid.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[18:19] <whiskers75> doesn't look like the device does it itself
[18:20] <whiskers75> yeah, I'll have to bite the bullet and boot up my 2-year-old windows
[18:20] <mgottschlag> cousteau: if you have an FPGA, you can just output MII directly and use an MII PHY, and connect your ethernet block directly to your system bus
[18:20] <cousteau> also, my system design program seems to include a USB2 controller. I wonder how hard it is to use.
[18:20] <cousteau> mgottschlag, brb, googling some words
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[18:22] <mgottschlag> phy = the last part of the ethernet stack which translates between the data from/to the upper layers of the stack and the waves sent to the isolating transformer
[18:22] <cousteau> mgottschlag, so basically making an Ethernet controller and make it communicate with the Ethernet port directly?
[18:22] <mgottschlag> the rpi's ethernet controller contains a phy
[18:22] <mgottschlag> well, no, your FPGA cannot output analog signals
[18:22] <cousteau> yeah, that's what I thought
[18:22] <mgottschlag> the phy basically is a glorified D/A A/D converter
[18:23] <cousteau> some FPGAs do have Ethernet capabilities though; but this one doesn't
[18:23] <mgottschlag> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slls931b/slls931b.pdf <- see the block diagram
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[18:23] <cousteau> oh I see
[18:23] <mgottschlag> if you already have USB, using an usb network controller might be easier of course
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[18:24] <cousteau> I was thinking on USB because that way I could use a ton of devices connected to the same bus and not care about the consequences
[18:24] <mgottschlag> yeah, good enough if you can live with the reduced throughput
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[18:25] <mgottschlag> well, the rest of your system will not be very fast anyways if you implement the CPU on the FPGA, so that's good enough
[18:25] <mhoney> looking for a hardware serial tap I can use with the Pi. Any suggestions?
[18:25] <cousteau> (howdy, the words "Ethernet MII" appeared somewhere in the system design software!)
[18:26] <cousteau> mgottschlag, well, some FPGAs do have a hard PPC or ARM processor built in (not this one though, I think)
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[18:28] <mgottschlag> however, FPGAs *are* fast enough for gbit ethernet, so if you attach a GMII phy or RGMII phy instead, you'll get more than you'd ever get with usb2 ^^
[18:29] <mgottschlag> needs the TCP/IP stack to be largely implemented in hardware though, to reduce load on your soft-core CPU
[18:29] <cousteau> ...apparently we already have a gigabit ethernet capable board; the SPI one was just a reduced version
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[18:45] <MY123> cousteau: How many gates are there in your FPGA?
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[18:45] <cousteau> 150 somethings
[18:45] <cousteau> (millions?)
[18:47] <cousteau> no wait, 150 thousand logic gates
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[18:47] <MY123> cousteau: Millions is impossible. Too costly( and have the size of a fridge). 150 thousands is much more plausible.
[18:47] <cousteau> (the model is XC6SLX150; I knew the 150 was related to the size)
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[18:52] <cousteau> 150 thousand logic cells*
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[18:54] <cousteau> 1 logic cell = 1 LUT + 1 register
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[18:55] <cousteau> and 1 LUT is roughly equivalent to 2 logic gates, I think, so about 300k
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[18:56] <cousteau> anyway, this is so off-topic I'm ashamed
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[22:13] * jrcharney is frustrated
[22:14] <Kanerix> Why?
[22:14] <jrcharney> Anyone know how do I install LLVM and Clang? And If you do, where do you normally put it? /opt? /usr/local/share?
[22:14] * toeshred (~chris@cpe-75-83-148-180.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:15] <toeshred> is there a "html only" google search url?
[22:15] <Kanerix> What OS?
[22:15] <jrcharney> Raspbian
[22:15] <Kanerix> toeshred, https://www.google.com/advanced_search
[22:17] * chaotic (~chaotic@unaffiliated/chaotic) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:17] <lost_soul> a couple of days ago someone mentioned getting a 5.1V PSU would be the best bet. I was wondering if 5.2V would be to much for the Pi to handle?
[22:18] <ppq> USB allows up to 5.25 V
[22:19] <Kanerix> I wouldn't go much higher than that
[22:19] <ppq> but... why would you want that
[22:20] * fixxxermet (~lopan@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] <lost_soul> ppq: because I have tried two PSU's thus far that are 5V one of which is supposedly 2A and upon testing via the spots on the Pi it is only getting like 4.25V. This is causing my pi to randomly freeze up.
[22:20] * XpineX (~XpineX@87-58-1-102-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] <fixxxermet> raspberrypiserver.no-ip.org seems to be down for me... Is the owner of that site here? Or can anyone point me to where the pianobar (pandora) remote android app is?
[22:21] <lost_soul> so I figure maybe using a 5.2V (only other I can get my hands on ATM) should hopefully at least provide 4.75V-5V and keep the Pi running stable
[22:21] <ppq> lost_soul, a higher nominal voltage will not help if you draw too much current
[22:22] <ppq> any USB PSU for smartphones should work just fine
[22:22] <lost_soul> ppq: That is the thing though, I'm using the Pi with only one device attached (a infared remote sensor)
[22:22] <Kanerix> Your power supply might suck
[22:22] <lost_soul> ppq: I tried the charger for my nexus 10 tablet, that also was very low
[22:23] <jrcharney> There is a device where if you plug in to two USB ports you can use twice as much power? I've got a portable Inland DVD-RW that does that.
[22:23] <ppq> jrcharney, it's off-spec and nowadays they don't do that anymore
[22:23] <johnc-> hmm
[22:24] <johnc-> anybody know which API I’d use to determine if the HDMI audio device is available?
[22:24] * FunOnTheBayou (~FunOnTheB@h127.13.189.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] <johnc-> instructing the API to output through HDMI when it’s unavailable makes it default to the 3.5mm jack
[22:24] <johnc-> instead I’d like to know that HDMI wasn’t available
[22:25] <ppq> you can use udev
[22:25] <ppq> this is for ubuntu, change accordingly http://askubuntu.com/a/265539
[22:26] <jrcharney> Just a though, though, ppq.
[22:27] <ppq> lost_soul, does it work when nothing is attached and only the rpi is powered by the PSU?
[22:29] <lost_soul> ppq: I haven't tested that, without a remote or something attached all it would do is be able to sit there.. I would have ssh access still of course
[22:30] <lost_soul> ppq: I use openelec on it as a media center system. I don't think I can control it via cli
[22:31] <ppq> lost_soul, you can use synergy to "share" a computer's mouse and keyboard to the rpi
[22:31] * robmorrissey (~robmorris@cpc26-brig15-2-0-cust123.3-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[22:31] <lost_soul> will google to see though
[22:31] <ppq> over the network
[22:31] <ppq> you can use that to test it
[22:31] <lost_soul> ppq: I will google that, first time I have heard of such a thing. Thank you!
[22:32] <ppq> :)
[22:32] * D-Boy (~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain) Quit (Excess Flood)
[22:33] <ppq> .. or just use a USB mouse on the pi, for testing
[22:33] * dblessing (~drewb@h210.236.190.173.static.ip.windstream.net) Quit (Quit: dblessing)
[22:34] <lost_soul> wouldn't a mouse use same power as the RF transmitter?
[22:34] <toeshred> came across bgoog.com while looking for a javascriptless google search. it has the added bonus of also being dark background to be easier on my eyes.
[22:35] <ppq> well, if it works with a mouse (which it will, probably) you know where the problem is
[22:36] <lost_soul> will check it when the sun goes down and the house cools off a bit, no A/C here. So you are thinking that the remote sensor is causing the issue it sounds like.
[22:36] * iceCalt_ (~iceCalt@p5DDCDC13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:37] <ppq> yes, i think so
[22:37] <lost_soul> ppq: so if that is the case.. just curious.. would plugging in a powered usb hub and plugging the sensor in to that likely resolve the issue
[22:38] <lost_soul> or most likely no?
[22:39] <ppq> yes, it would
[22:39] <ppq> oh, btw, do you happen to use a really long cable between PSU and pi?
[22:39] * iceCalt (~iceCalt@p5DDCFAE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:39] <ppq> those cause voltage drops, too
[22:40] * jrcharney (~pi@108-73-42-28.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[22:40] * uccio is now known as zz_uccio
[22:40] <lost_soul> okay, thank you for the advice. I will test it, as I said, when the sun goes down and the temps decrease. One of the cables is indeed relatively long (4-5 foot). The nexus charger cable is only about 2 foot in length.
[22:41] <toeshred> i use my nexus 7 charger for the pi.
[22:41] <toeshred> 1.35A 5.2v
[22:41] <toeshred> about 3ft in length
[22:41] <skulltip> is there a cheap pi i can build which would run lubuntu or xubuntu
[22:41] <toeshred> maybe 4
[22:41] <ppq> 5 ft is ok
[22:41] <ppq> i have a 3 m cable, 4.8 to 4.9 V on the end
[22:42] * D-Boy (~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:42] <lost_soul> toeshred: the charger for the nexus 10 I have is only supplying about 4.25V at the test points on the board.. so maybe the 7 has a different charger?
[22:42] * x1337807x (~x1337807x@c-76-115-7-194.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[22:42] <ppq> skulltip, if you want ubuntu, you need something with an ARMv7 SoC, the pi is ARMv6
[22:43] <toeshred> lost_soul: mine is a 2013 model nexus 7 (second one), while i think the nexus 10 is closer to the first nexus 7.
[22:43] <ppq> skulltip, there are loads of affordable ARM boards, no idea which one is the thing right now
[22:44] * BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
[22:45] <lost_soul> toeshred: perhaps, I know the charger for mine says 5V.. 1A I believe
[22:45] * chaotic (~chaotic@unaffiliated/chaotic) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:45] <ppq> lost_soul, did you measure the voltage on the charger, too? with nothing attached
[22:45] <ppq> maybe it's faulty
[22:46] <lost_soul> ppq: no, that I did not do.. just stick the tester leads in and try to hit the right spot?
[22:46] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-130-11-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit ()
[22:46] <ppq> yes
[22:47] <lost_soul> ok, I can do that too
[22:47] <lost_soul> will do so after I finish supper
[22:47] <skulltip> question then, would not all stuff in ubuntu software center run on Arm since some may be based on x86 architecture?
[22:48] <ppq> lost_soul, the two outer pins are 5 V and GND
[22:48] * Armand (~martin@ Quit (Quit: Gone, man.. Solid gone!)
[22:48] <ppq> skulltip, depends
[22:48] * tanuva (~tanuva@2a02:8071:29c0:6f00:1dc4:ac80:5452:8186) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:48] * sutty\away is now known as sutty
[22:49] <lost_soul> ppq, yep, I have a picture that shows the pinouts of usb from when I had to do some work on one
[22:50] * redrocket (~redrocket@unaffiliated/redrocket) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:50] <ppq> skulltip, not all packages on http://archive.ubuntu.com might be available on http://ports.ubuntu.com/
[22:51] * rudivd_ (~rudivd@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:51] <ppq> skulltip, but i don't know.. just try.
[22:54] * achim (~achim@p5DDC666C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[22:59] * cave (~cave@gateway/tor-sasl/cave) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:59] * toeshred (~chris@cpe-75-83-148-180.socal.res.rr.com) has left #raspberrypi
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[22:59] * SpeedEvil is now known as Guest65122
[23:00] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-148-174.netcologne.de) Quit ()
[23:00] * beng1 (~Adium@host109-157-201-187.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:00] <beng1> hello all
[23:01] * Guest65122 (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[23:04] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:09] * bart_b (~bart_b@unaffiliated/bart-b/x-7974760) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[23:09] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[23:11] * cndiv (~cndiv@wikimedia/cdeubner) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:11] <BitEvil> u
[23:11] <iceCalt_> "fuck u" :DDD
[23:11] * BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
[23:12] * SpeedEvil is now known as fjjfeij
[23:12] * fjjfeij is now known as SpeedEvil
[23:12] * S0-2 (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:13] * cndiv (~cndiv@wikimedia/cdeubner) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:13] <gordonDrogon> iceCalt_, we try to keep the family friendly....
[23:14] <iceCalt_> Oh. I thought you people know the joke with "Why Americans leave out u in colour"
[23:14] <beng1> anyone have exprience with setting up ramdisks via /etc/fstab ?
[23:15] * SgrA (~sgra@unaffiliated/sgra) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:15] <ppq> tmpfs? that's pretty straight-forward
[23:15] <beng1> yeah thats what i thought, but im getting odd errors on boot
[23:16] <beng1> error with mode=0755
[23:17] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-23-234.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:17] <beng1> also when doing this … update-rc.d dphys-swapfile disable
[23:17] <beng1> i get this warning...
[23:17] <beng1> insserv: warning: current start runlevel(s) (empty) of script `dphys-swapfile' overrides LSB defaults (2 3 4 5).
[23:17] <beng1> insserv: warning: current stop runlevel(s) (2 3 4 5) of script `dphys-swapfile' overrides LSB defaults (empty).
[23:17] <beng1> is that correct?
[23:20] * zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) Quit (Quit: -)
[23:20] <ppq> seems like it is not LSB standard compliant to disable swap
[23:20] <ppq> it is just a warning though, nothing serious
[23:20] <beng1> so do i take it that swap has been disabled?
[23:21] * cndiv (~cndiv@wikimedia/cdeubner) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:21] <gordonDrogon> run 'top' and have a look is one of the quickest ways to see if swap it working.
[23:21] <ppq> swap-files, at least
[23:21] <ppq> swap partitions set up in fstab will not be affected by that
[23:21] <gordonDrogon> mot a fan of dphys-swapfile though - prefer a fixed swapfile and entry in /etc/fstab, but maybe that's just me.
[23:21] <ppq> gordonDrogon++
[23:22] <gordonDrogon> one less script to run at boot time.
[23:23] <beng1> cant see swap in top
[23:23] <ppq> beng1, about the mode thing. which directory do you mount as tmpfs? maybe it needs the sticky bit (1755) to work around the issue
[23:23] <beng1> i was trying to turn /tmp /var/log and /var/lock to ramdisks
[23:24] * zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:24] * Technicus (~Technicus@75-128-248-139.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:24] <gordonDrogon> beng1, ah, check /etc/default/tmpfs
[23:24] * rudivd_ (~rudivd@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:25] <gordonDrogon> that can be done automatically at boot.
[23:25] <gordonDrogon> well, not /var/log, but others.
[23:25] * girafe (~girafe@AGrenoble-651-1-529-210.w90-42.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:25] <gordonDrogon> personally... I remove rsyslogd on Pi's when I know I'll never read the log-files.
[23:25] <beng1> true
[23:25] <gordonDrogon> which is most of them.
[23:26] <beng1> i guess if im keeping them in ram there are pretty much useless anyway
[23:26] * mimer (~Mimer@unaffiliated/mimer) Quit (Quit: L�mnar)
[23:26] * slassh (~slassh@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:26] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:26] <beng1> maybe im being over cautious about read/write limits on SD card anyway
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> If you've got a 'proper' server on the same network, then you can just log to network
[23:27] <beng1> ah thats an even better idea
[23:29] * sutty is now known as sutty\away
[23:29] <MY123> SpeedEvil: And mounting the rootfs over NFS. No more problems!
[23:30] * meiskam (~meiskam@shellium/developer/meiskam) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:30] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: I just broke my connection, but no worries, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.)
[23:30] <sla_erick> apt-get upgrade is telling me that there is an update for "python-rpi.gpio python3-rpi.gpio" packages, is it a safe and stable update? Im using model B
[23:30] * dfalkner (~dfalkner@c-98-202-199-210.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] <gordonDrogon> sla_erick, I don't use PYthon, but I'm guessing these are minor tweaks for the B+ so I'd assume it was safe for the B too.
[23:31] * Boatski (~Boatski@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] <MY123> sla_erick: Is stable and you can revert after updating.
[23:32] <sla_erick> thanks gordonDrogon and MY123
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[23:34] * ppq (~ppq@unaffiliated/ppq) Quit (Quit: nachti)
[23:37] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:41] * slassh (~slassh@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:45] * Xeph__ is now known as xeph
[23:45] * P33M (~M33P@ Quit ()
[23:46] * rdbell (~rdbell@ Quit (Quit: rdbell)
[23:46] * Gadgetoid (~Gadgetoid@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:49] * r420r (~r420r@unaffiliated/r420r) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:49] * Gadgetoid (~Gadgetoid@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:50] * mgottschlag (~mgottschl@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:51] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] * Technicus (~Technicus@75-128-248-139.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:57] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.