#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2014-10-13

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * darkavenger_afk is now known as darkavenger
[0:02] * XpineX (~XpineX@87-58-1-13-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[0:02] * Ryitt (3e8eae60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.142.174.96) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:02] <Ryitt> Have you tested limelight? Does it work?
[0:02] * pzp (uid11754@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtkgynkgxgzkznza) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[0:03] * linuxstb (~linuxstb@unaffiliated/linuxstb) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:04] * twikz (~twikz@p200300750F7C7C00F0EA1ADD1A2BD8A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ()
[0:07] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:09] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:10] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] * Nik05 (~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:14] * linuxstb (~linuxstb@unaffiliated/linuxstb) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
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[0:16] * GentileBen (~RaycisCha@cpc5-lutn10-2-0-cust681.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[0:16] * tccki_ (~tccki@ec2-54-183-138-8.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:17] * tccki (tccki@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe6e:94b7) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[0:18] * Wryness (~Wryness@gateway/tor-sasl/lunario) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[0:20] * Visage (~visage@pdpc/supporter/active/visage) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:23] * tccki (~tccki@ec2-54-183-138-8.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:24] * winlu (~winlu@unaffiliated/winlu) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[0:25] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] * darkavenger is now known as darkavenger_afk
[0:26] * pothibo (~textual@modemcable240.255-176-173.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
[0:28] * Delboy (~openwrt@183-1.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:28] * abnormal (~abnormal@127.sub-70-209-131.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] * m8 (~m@unaffiliated/m8) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[0:32] <l_r> do anyone own a odriod u3 which is said to be compatible with rpi?
[0:32] * plugwash doesn't own a U3 but does own it's predecessor the U2
[0:32] <phire> Interesting
[0:33] <phire> not only does the B+ have low voltage warnings.
[0:33] <phire> But it copes much better in low voltage conditions
[0:33] * twikz (~twikz@p4FE11126.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] <phire> Didn't crash until the voltage dropped below 3.2v
[0:34] <Ryitt> Limelight should work?
[0:34] <plugwash> l_r, I'd expect it to be no more of less "compatible with rpi" than any other armv7 board
[0:35] <l_r> plugwash, does it use the same firmware for the gpu?
[0:35] <l_r> isnt the gpu from broadcom?
[0:36] * Visage (~visage@pdpc/supporter/active/visage) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] * monkers (~Monkers@unaffiliated/monkeypaws) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-235-173.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] * pdmct (uid44201@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxjpapzacomtpjfa) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[0:37] <plugwash> No, it's a samsung SoC with a mali GPU
[0:38] * monkers (~Monkers@unaffiliated/monkeypaws) has left #raspberrypi
[0:39] <l_r> plugwash, but somewhere i read it i ssoftware-compatible, things like raspistill and raspivid would work...
[0:39] <plugwash> The only broadcom device the odriod guys did is the odriod-w, unfortunately broadcom refused to continue supplying them with further chips. It's not entirely clear why
[0:39] <l_r> ok
[0:39] <plugwash> so the odroid-w is on "available while stocks last, not reccomended for new designs"
[0:41] * MushroomKing (~Brian@71-81-145-132.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:42] * plugwash suspects someone got their odriod models confused
[0:44] * g2nightmare (~matt@c-98-244-113-247.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] <abnormal> plugwash, the design rights made them stop supplying the broadcom chips to Odroid...
[0:46] <plugwash> abnormal, has anyone officially announced that or is it just someone's theory?
[0:48] <abnormal> read it somewhere on the web. they were making the boards so similar to pi that pi ppl got on their case....
[0:49] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-235-173.dsl.iskon.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:49] <plugwash> people write lots of stuff on the web, doesn't mean it's true
[0:50] <abnormal> ok lemme look for it for you... just a min...
[0:50] <plugwash> It's quite common for people to take a theory as to why something happened and state it as if it's a fact
[0:52] <phire> yes, like the entire internet is postive that the GPU in Apple's A7/A8 SOCs is a PowerVR
[0:52] * g2nightmare (~matt@c-98-244-113-247.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has left #raspberrypi
[0:54] <niston> PowerVR heh
[0:54] * Delboy (~openwrt@141-136-235-205.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:54] <niston> my first MMX pentium box had one of these in it
[0:54] * winlu (~winlu@unaffiliated/winlu) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:54] <niston> NEC PowerVR 2
[0:54] <abnormal> plugwash, ok, key in this line in Google, "Odroid stopped due to rpi rights" and pick and choose the stories you like to read... the opinion is yours, so enjoy...
[0:55] <phire> just because apple's previous SOCs used powervr processors
[0:55] * niston waves at abnormal
[0:55] <phire> then apple went quiet
[0:55] <abnormal> hi, niston
[0:55] * Moshin (~bangboom@173.227.40.115) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] <phire> and the only source which everything links back to is chipwork's decaping
[0:56] * funnel (~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:56] * pebble` (~pebble@unaffiliated/espiral) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:56] <phire> where they say: We can see the gpu as X cores, it's probally the PowerVR XYZ which also has X cores
[0:56] * funnel (~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:56] * pebble` (~pebble@unaffiliated/espiral) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] * PovAddict (~nicolas@kde/developer/nalvarez) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] <PovAddict> if I connect a LED to a GPIO port, can I control its brightness?
[0:59] <PovAddict> via PWM maybe?
[1:01] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] * kij__ (kij__@c-76-23-251-139.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:03] * SiC (~Simon@cpc12-aztw24-2-0-cust193.aztw.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:03] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:04] * zanchoPansa (~pi@186-107-66-204.baf.movistar.cl) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] * Textmode (~boneidle@adsl-1-au-2-174.ozonline.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] <[Saint]> PovAddict: yes
[1:08] <PovAddict> well how? :)
[1:08] <niston> [Saint] will this also work if the led is driven through a transistor?
[1:08] * [Saint] delegates the task of explanation to The Googlez:
[1:08] <[Saint]> http://raspi.tv/2013/how-to-use-soft-pwm-in-rpi-gpio-pt-2-led-dimming-and-motor-speed-control
[1:09] <[Saint]> (its smarter than I am)
[1:09] <PovAddict> ah software PWM
[1:09] * [Saint] nods
[1:10] <PovAddict> and there's no analog outputs in the pi?
[1:11] * RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@gateway/tor-sasl/raptorjesus) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:11] <phire> all hail our google overlords
[1:12] <PovAddict> ooh maybe I can make a simple DAC and use multiple GPIO pins per LED :)
[1:12] <PovAddict> with appropriate diodes of course
[1:12] <phire> LEDs don't actually respond well to changes in voltages
[1:13] <phire> PWM is the best method for controlling their brightness
[1:13] <PovAddict> hm I see
[1:13] <[Saint]> Right. Tis but a trickery.
[1:14] <[Saint]> But, out eyes don't care.
[1:14] <[Saint]> *our
[1:14] <phire> as long as it's fast enough
[1:14] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@151.241.227.29) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:14] * girafe (~girafe@AGrenoble-651-1-385-154.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:15] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@162.13.47.212) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:15] <[Saint]> doesn't need to be too fast. 18Hz or so.
[1:16] <[Saint]> Our eyes are fairly stupid.
[1:17] * Tachyon` is now known as Tach[out]
[1:17] * iamjarvo (~textual@c-69-249-187-177.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:18] <SpeedEvil> PWM of up to ~1000Hz can be visible in some cases.
[1:19] <SpeedEvil> For lighting LEDs, please exceed 500Hz PWM
[1:19] <[Saint]> that would probably be some weird coincidence of overlapping cycles I would think.
[1:20] <[Saint]> A human eye definitely can't distinguish individual flashes at that rate.
[1:20] <[Saint]> temporary syncups between the refresh rate of the source and the eye.
[1:20] <[Saint]> He says, highly speculatively.
[1:20] <plugwash> I don't think the eye has a "refresh rate" as such
[1:20] * iamjarvo (~textual@c-69-249-187-177.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[1:21] <phire> human eyesight is acutally quite clever
[1:21] <plugwash> the bigger problem is movement, if you or the thing you are looking at is moving quickly then you can get stroboscopic affects even at very high flash frequencies
[1:21] <phire> what you are perceiving is actually a blend over 10's of seconds
[1:21] <SpeedEvil> [Saint]: When your eye slews past an illuminated image, you get a stroboscopic image
[1:21] <[Saint]> Too clever, really, which is why frame rates as low as 24Hz can appear absolutely fluid to the human eye.
[1:22] <SpeedEvil> This screws up some people more than others.
[1:22] <SpeedEvil> [Saint]: It doesn't
[1:22] <SpeedEvil> [Saint]: note that most people can tell the differnece between 24 and 48
[1:22] <SpeedEvil> and the epic bitching
[1:22] <[Saint]> See: every movie ever.
[1:22] <[Saint]> 24Hz is absolutely fine for Joe Average.
[1:23] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@162.13.47.212) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:23] <CoJaBo> movies show the frames twice
[1:23] <plugwash> apparently one of the reasons movies don't go to higher framerates is that people CAN tell the difference and associate higher framerates subconciously with cheap TV shows
[1:24] <CoJaBo> which is hilarious :P
[1:25] <[Saint]> I'm not trying to say that people can't differentiate between higher frame rates, not at all, just the as little as 24Hz is absolutely fine for the brain to fill in the gaps and perceive fluid movement.
[1:25] <[Saint]> WHich is largely inarguable.
[1:25] <CoJaBo> anything below ~100hz flickers quite annoyingly :/
[1:26] <[Saint]> your monitor and television might care to disagree.
[1:26] <plugwash> In most situations yes, movies work very hard to avoid the situation where it isn't (fast camera movement for example) and it does also vary between individuals
[1:26] <CoJaBo> [Saint]: I can't use CRTs below 100hz
[1:26] <[Saint]> Jesus.
[1:26] <[Saint]> Who uses CRTs?
[1:26] <CoJaBo> Thankfully, nobody :P
[1:26] <SpeedEvil> LCDs don't ficker in the same way
[1:26] <PovAddict> :)
[1:26] <SpeedEvil> so you can't compare them
[1:27] <CoJaBo> LCDs are fine; I'd literally go insane if they did not exist
[1:27] <CoJaBo> I can't even be in the same room as a CRT television, they're too fricking loud >_>
[1:28] <[Saint]> I have to admit that I did keep a giant 28" CRT monitor on my desk for *ages* as a secondary monitor for the sake of my aging (19yo) cat. :)
[1:28] <SpeedEvil> People vary - some are inherently more sensitive to flickering
[1:28] <PovAddict> [Saint]: to give him a warm spot to sleep?
[1:28] <[Saint]> PovAddict: indeed.
[1:28] <CoJaBo> SpeedEvil: /me is one of them :/
[1:28] <PovAddict> :3
[1:28] <cluelez____> :3
[1:29] <CoJaBo> SpeedEvil: What's even more annoying is the sound they make, which far fewer people can hear
[1:29] * MushroomKing (~Brian@75-132-91-203.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:29] <PovAddict> CoJaBo: how old are you?
[1:29] <[Saint]> WHen I eventually moved to LCD I built a surround for the monitors with a heating pad embedded in the top.
[1:29] <PovAddict> sensitivity to high-pitched sounds is inversely proportional to age
[1:29] <[Saint]> kitty-approved and certified.
[1:30] <CoJaBo> rofl
[1:30] * ShorTie snickers
[1:30] <[Saint]> PovAddict: damn right it is...get past ~35 as a male and your top end resolution bottoms out disgustingly.
[1:30] <CoJaBo> PovAddict: In my life, I've met one other person who can hear The Sound
[1:30] <PovAddict> I can hear CRTs
[1:30] <PovAddict> but it's not that loud
[1:30] <[Saint]> PovAddict: FWIW, I used to be very annoyed by CRTs and VCRs as well.
[1:31] <CoJaBo> Most people can hear the "chirp" as it turns on and off, but it's continuous, and noone seems to be bothered by it
[1:31] <[Saint]> I used to think I was insane.
[1:31] <PovAddict> also, switching power supplies
[1:31] <[Saint]> PovAddict: right - them too, indeed.
[1:31] <PovAddict> phone chargers make a high-pitched sound too
[1:31] <CoJaBo> People think you're insane when you can hear unhearable sounds <_<
[1:31] <[Saint]> At my age, I can't hear it anymore, though.
[1:31] * Datalink_ (Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:32] <CoJaBo> I've also discovered that people who edit and screen movies and TV shows can't hear The Sound either
[1:32] * PovAddict goes back to writing Python
[1:33] <CoJaBo> You can tell which actors had a CRT or similar device in the background when they recorded their audio track
[1:34] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:34] * Datalink (Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:35] <CoJaBo> I used to freak people out by telling them when their show came back on when the TV was muted and in another room =D
[1:36] * iceCalt_ (~iceCalt@p5DDCCA15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:38] * medoix (~medoix@58-6-52-44.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[1:42] * Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] <SpeedEvil> CoJaBo: see also metallica
[1:46] <CoJaBo> SpeedEvil: ?
[1:48] <SpeedEvil> http://recordinghacks.com/2008/12/20/metallica-wins-the-loudness-wars/
[1:49] <SpeedEvil> (The band was happy for it to sound that way - as they can't hear it)
[1:52] * abnormal (~abnormal@127.sub-70-209-131.myvzw.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:53] <CoJaBo> SpeedEvil: what was that related to
[1:55] <SpeedEvil> I've also discovered that people who edit and screen movies and TV shows can't hear The Sound either
[1:56] <SpeedEvil> And general diminuition of recording peoples abilities over time
[1:57] * knob (~knob@mobile-166-172-190-220.mycingular.net) Quit (Quit: Back-Hoe cut the fiber...)
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[4:19] * skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[4:28] * teepee (~teepee@gateway/tor-sasl/teepee) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:28] <skyroveRR> I'm unable to get a full resolution of 640x576 that's supported by PAL on the pi, I believe I'm still getting the old res of 640x480 even though I'm modified the config.txt file to show PAL as the preferred method. My aspect ratio is 4:3 and my screen size is 9.8 inches, any guesses?
[4:28] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@c119045.net21845.cablenet.ne.jp) Quit (Quit: amigojapan)
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[4:31] <[Saint]> skyroveRR: overscan?
[4:31] * MushroomKing (~Brian@75-132-91-203.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:32] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@c-71-201-7-76.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:32] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[4:34] <skyroveRR> [Saint]: that's disabled. Not completely, though. I needed the characters at the edge of the screen to the left, so I adjusted that, but nothing else.
[4:35] * Noldorin (~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) Quit (Quit: –)
[4:37] <skyroveRR> [Saint]: I have these variables set in the config.txt: gpu_mem=32,sdtv_mode=2, sdtv_aspect=1, framebuffer_height/width=640/576 and overscan_left=5.
[4:38] * MushroomKing (~Brian@71-81-93-40.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:19] <irc_smirk> hello
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[6:21] <irc_smirk> question
[6:21] <irc_smirk> how can i run email server on my pi?
[6:22] <irc_smirk> is there a node or apt-get thign i can do to try it out
[6:24] * botnut1 (~bot_nut@162-233-77-128.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:56] * irc_smirk (17f24525@gateway/web/freenode/ip.23.242.69.37) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:56] <irc_smirk> top ?
[8:56] <irc_smirk> Uptime: 4 days, 07:49:08
[8:56] <irc_smirk> :))
[8:57] <irc_smirk> how bout you guys?
[8:57] * spybert (~spybert@c-50-173-18-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[8:57] <abnormal> beats me.. dunno about email server
[8:59] <irc_smirk> r u using pi as email server?
[9:00] <abnormal> I am chatting you with a pi
[9:00] <abnormal> but no, not an email server...
[9:01] <skyroveRR> I am.
[9:01] <irc_smirk> how does that work exactly
[9:01] <irc_smirk> what is your email address ?
[9:01] <skyroveRR> How does what work?
[9:01] * Elek101 (~textual@diagenode.socext.ulg.ac.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:01] <skyroveRR> Why do you want my email address?
[9:02] <irc_smirk> let me ask another way
[9:02] <irc_smirk> say i setup email server on my pi
[9:02] * Willchill (~Willchill@CPE-121-220-65-11.lnse2.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:02] <irc_smirk> what email address do i then have
[9:02] <skyroveRR> Yes.
[9:02] <skyroveRR> You want a couple of prerequisites.
[9:02] <skyroveRR> You need a domain.
[9:02] <skyroveRR> You need a static IP.
[9:02] <skyroveRR> You need to have a suitable DNS server.
[9:03] * Xano (~bart@ip-213-127-200-52.ip.prioritytelecom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:03] <skyroveRR> You need a suitable hardware [in my case, my pi.]
[9:03] <irc_smirk> so your pi is not at home for example
[9:03] <skyroveRR> And you need suitable software.
[9:03] <skyroveRR> Then you can access it remotely.
[9:04] <skyroveRR> Why do you want an email server, btw?
[9:05] <abnormal> so he can serve emails...
[9:05] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[9:05] <skyroveRR> lol
[9:05] <skyroveRR> There are commercial webmail providers for that.
[9:05] <skyroveRR> They should be enough.
[9:05] <irc_smirk> for privacy
[9:06] <skyroveRR> You don't really want an email server unless you know what you really want.
[9:06] <irc_smirk> i want my own webmail software and i want to be able to run scripts against incomign email and i dont want yahoo/google/hotmail reading all my mail
[9:06] <skyroveRR> "for privacy" <- please explain.
[9:07] <irc_smirk> even though of course using their browsers they read everythign
[9:07] * Elek101 (~textual@diagenode.socext.ulg.ac.be) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[9:07] <skyroveRR> Mm ok..
[9:07] <skyroveRR> Now, do you have the prerequisites I just mentioned?
[9:07] <irc_smirk> also i want to have my own 10minute mail thing
[9:07] <irc_smirk> i use duckdns
[9:07] <irc_smirk> i use that for 'static' ip
[9:08] <irc_smirk> i can get a domain and point it to duckdns i suppose
[9:08] <irc_smirk> so at that point its about software
[9:08] <skyroveRR> No, when I said "static IP", I didn't mean the IP of duckdns, I meant the static IP of your computer.
[9:09] <irc_smirk> well i havent made that part static yet
[9:09] <irc_smirk> i have port forwarding
[9:09] <irc_smirk> its easy to make it static from what i read. i just havent. lazy
[9:09] <skyroveRR> Do you know what a static IP is?
[9:09] <irc_smirk> yeah my internal one right?
[9:09] <irc_smirk> 192.168.x.x
[9:09] <skyroveRR> Umm... no.
[9:09] <irc_smirk> the external one?
[9:09] <skyroveRR> I asked the definition, not examples.
[9:10] * skylite (~skylite@business-178-48-4-145.business.broadband.hu) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:10] <skyroveRR> It's an IP that doesn't change. Be it internal or external.
[9:10] <irc_smirk> yes
[9:10] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:10] <irc_smirk> but as you know with home isp setups the stuff changes
[9:10] <skyroveRR> Indeed.
[9:10] <irc_smirk> hence duckdns
[9:11] <skyroveRR> I'd better google that shit since I don't use it.
[9:11] <irc_smirk> basically you put an bash sript that pings their servers
[9:11] <irc_smirk> every 5 minutes
[9:11] <irc_smirk> then they do dns for you based on that ip
[9:11] <skyroveRR> Mm...
[9:12] <irc_smirk> and its on amazon ec2 and works great. a bit slow on the dns part i have noticed
[9:12] * Maqs (~maqs@internetmafia.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:12] <skyroveRR> Well, that's fine, but... it's "free" and it's that which makes me suspicious.
[9:12] * spybert (~spybert@c-50-173-18-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:13] <irc_smirk> well what is worse they can do?
[9:13] <skyroveRR> Do you know how DNS works?
[9:14] <skyroveRR> And the hierarchies of DNS?
[9:14] <skyroveRR> DuckDNS is basically a dynamic DNS provider.
[9:14] * gbaman (~gbaman@31.205.104.150) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:14] <irc_smirk> right. and no i dont konw
[9:14] <irc_smirk> be gentle
[9:14] <skyroveRR> I am :)
[9:15] <irc_smirk> ok so what is the suspicion about
[9:15] <irc_smirk> of course this is not robust solution blah blah
[9:15] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:15] <irc_smirk> i mean i dont have money to get a static ip. if i knew how id do that
[9:15] <irc_smirk> but i still want to run the pi of course
[9:16] <irc_smirk> as for duckdns whats the suspicion other than them turning off the lights and the dns doesnt resolve
[9:16] <skyroveRR> Well, my setup is quite different. And you could term it "private". But relying on other providers for such services is baseless as far as privacy is concerned.
[9:16] <irc_smirk> how is it not private
[9:16] <irc_smirk> they know my external ip and that i run pi
[9:17] <skyroveRR> That's why.
[9:17] <irc_smirk> what else does the bash script reveal
[9:17] <skyroveRR> An IP can tell a lot.
[9:17] <irc_smirk> ok . explain
[9:17] <irc_smirk> you can port scan it
[9:17] <irc_smirk> dos the pi
[9:17] <irc_smirk> i mean ok
[9:17] <irc_smirk> but thats what happens when you connect to the internet
[9:19] <skyroveRR> Ok, that's far away thinking. My view is, if you want privacy, you try to keep as many things as you can in YOUR control, not in the control of someone else. When you are using some DDNS provider, they basically decide what to do and what not to do with your IP. They can do whatever the hell they want to do with it. But when you are using your own servers, you can do basically what the hell you want to
[9:19] <skyroveRR> do.
[9:20] * gbaman (~gbaman@31.205.104.150) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[9:20] <irc_smirk> so you run your own dns as well?
[9:20] <skyroveRR> Yup.
[9:20] <irc_smirk> and you have static ips because you are jedi level
[9:21] * D30 (~deo@222.127.13.226) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:21] <skyroveRR> Erm... I'm not a jedi in any way. When I started out with my email server, I asked the same questions to others as you are asking me now.
[9:22] <irc_smirk> so yes i guess i could run dns like they do on amazon
[9:22] <irc_smirk> so how much do yu pay to get a static ip
[9:22] <irc_smirk> or where, how,
[9:23] <irc_smirk> shit now you are making me feel paranoid about yellow rubber ducks
[9:23] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Excess Flood)
[9:24] <skyroveRR> When it comes to DDNS, you need to know about DNS, particularly DNS propagation. When you are assigned a new IP by your ISP, the script pushes the changes to your DuckDNS server, which is fine, but then, it takes a lot of time for the changes to take effect. Let me make it a bit simple: suppose I have a domain abc.com with an IP 1.2.3.4, and then 2 days later, I have a new IP 1.2.3.5, the script will
[9:24] <skyroveRR> make the changes, but anyone trying to open abc.com on their browser won't be able to open it, because your OLD DNS record is still 1.2.3.4, not 1.2.3.5. So it's the propagation that beats you.
[9:24] * MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[9:25] <irc_smirk> yeah i know that part
[9:25] <irc_smirk> btw i saw an old unix dns book at the thrift store today
[9:25] <irc_smirk> i should go back and get it
[9:25] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:25] <irc_smirk> those old orielly books from 90's are gold i think
[9:26] * justinmburrous (~justinmbu@c-73-37-6-91.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:26] <irc_smirk> dns and bind it was called
[9:26] <skyroveRR> "Old is gold" doesn't necessarily apply to computers, btw. What's new today can be obsolete tomorrow.
[9:26] <irc_smirk> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596100575.do
[9:26] <irc_smirk> alright dude. level me up
[9:26] <skyroveRR> I am not levelling with you. :|
[9:26] <irc_smirk> so tell me what security issues pi has out of the box
[9:27] <irc_smirk> with my ip exposed
[9:27] <skyroveRR> You would have to ask that to the company that makes those pis.
[9:27] <skyroveRR> Not me, I'm not the manufacturer.
[9:27] <irc_smirk> raspbian
[9:28] <skyroveRR> If you know so much about DNS, what's stopping you from running your email server?
[9:28] <irc_smirk> im not saying i do. im learning
[9:28] <irc_smirk> im asking for recommendations
[9:28] <Darkwell> computerscience stuff could be old and modern in the same time... algoriths are still algorithms for instance
[9:29] <skyroveRR> I come here to give suggestions, not recommendations, irc_smirk .
[9:29] <irc_smirk> agreed. and current levesl build on older levels
[9:29] <skyroveRR> Darkwell: true. Programming languages, for example. But not necessarily hardware.
[9:29] <irc_smirk> like newcomers think jquery = javascript
[9:30] <irc_smirk> ok who do i need to XYZ to get an apt-get 'suggessiton' for an email server??
[9:32] <skyroveRR> Google.
[9:32] <Darkwell> hardware could be changing ... but also lasting... depwnding on who built it... in computerscience you can interchange software and hardware back and forth... its up to the designer how flexible they want things to be
[9:32] <irc_smirk> ohnoyoudidng
[9:32] * kcj (~casey@unaffiliated/kcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:32] <skyroveRR> irc_smirk: google, I say.
[9:33] <Darkwell> im diing this with my rpi and gpio
[9:33] <Darkwell> doing
[9:34] <kiely> Can anyone help me with a shutdown switch?
[9:34] <irc_smirk> google
[9:34] <kiely> yeah
[9:34] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:34] <kiely> I have a 4 pin switch
[9:34] <abnormal> yeah just get a power strip with a switch on it.
[9:34] <kiely> Nope
[9:34] <Darkwell> wiringpi ?
[9:35] <irc_smirk> hehe
[9:35] <kiely> I need it to send shutdown signal, there's code made, the wiring is available
[9:35] <kiely> Hoping theres someone who knows electronics here :D
[9:35] <Darkwell> shutdown -h now
[9:35] <irc_smirk> kiely - there is a battery project
[9:35] <irc_smirk> that had scripts for that. hold on
[9:35] <irc_smirk> *googling*
[9:36] * Willchill (~Willchill@CPE-121-220-65-11.lnse2.win.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[9:36] <irc_smirk> hunt around here https://pi.gate.ac.uk/pages/mopi.html
[9:36] <Darkwell> you poll the gpio for closed connections (dont forget to add resistors) then execute shutdown -h now
[9:37] <irc_smirk> i remember reading how they guy wrote some code to send a special signal before shut down etc
[9:37] * utack (~utack@ipb2183c04.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:37] * skylite_ (~skylite@4E5C540F.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:39] <kiely> yeah I saw some code
[9:40] <Darkwell> its not that hard to poll the gpio an look for the pin states to do what you want
[9:41] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[9:41] * zlimvos (~zlimvos@f100226.upc-f.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:42] <Darkwell> http://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/usage/gpio/
[9:43] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[9:44] <Darkwell> http://makezine.com/projects/tutorial-raspberry-pi-gpio-pins-and-python/
[9:44] <Darkwell> there you got all you need to make it work for you
[9:45] <irc_smirk> so how do i harden my ssh port
[9:45] <irc_smirk> specifcially how do i prevent root from loggin in
[9:45] <irc_smirk> and how do i rename my pi user to something else (yet keep all its settings)
[9:45] <Darkwell> are you srrious ?
[9:47] <irc_smirk> wchi part
[9:48] <Darkwell> the ssh qestions
[9:48] <irc_smirk> yeah which part
[9:48] <irc_smirk> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/security-tip-disable-root-ssh-login-on-linux/
[9:48] <irc_smirk> changing pi user is hard?
[9:48] <Darkwell> edit /ets/ssh/sshd_config
[9:49] <Darkwell> nope
[9:49] <Darkwell> its not hard
[9:49] <irc_smirk> all the stuff ive installed with that user will transfer over?
[9:49] <irc_smirk> sorry very new to unix
[9:49] <Darkwell> yes
[9:50] <Darkwell> the sshd_config you can disallow root login
[9:50] <Darkwell> changing name of usrt pi is just editing 2 files
[9:50] <irc_smirk> http://www.maketecheasier.com/change-default-raspberry-pi-configuration/
[9:51] <irc_smirk> ok. so i shut down all my scripts due to my new paranoia
[9:51] <irc_smirk> so now only ssh is open
[9:51] * medoix-afk is now known as medoix
[9:51] <irc_smirk> so basically the only way in is with brute forcing that password right?
[9:51] <Darkwell> uh?
[9:52] <irc_smirk> basically i ran nmap on myself
[9:52] <irc_smirk> saw my open ports. and shut them
[9:52] <irc_smirk> except ssh
[9:52] <irc_smirk> so im asking how else can someone 'attack me'
[9:52] <Darkwell> if you want to drop brute force attacks
[9:52] <Darkwell> there exists software that blocks repeated attempts
[9:53] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:53] <irc_smirk> ok any other way in?
[9:53] <Darkwell> apt-get install lsof
[9:53] <irc_smirk> omg an apt recommendation finally!
[9:53] <Darkwell> lsof -Pni
[9:53] <Darkwell> shows your services listening on your machine
[9:54] <irc_smirk> ooo nice
[9:54] <irc_smirk> now stand back as i completely disable my pi and then complain i cant reach it anymore
[9:54] <Darkwell> heh
[9:55] * gadgetoid (~gadgetoid@host86-184-77-109.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:55] <irc_smirk> is there a log somewhere of every command ive typed in?
[9:56] <irc_smirk> cause ive installed a bunch of stuff and woudl liek to go back to retrace incase i hose this thing
[9:56] <Darkwell> yea and no
[9:56] <Darkwell> depends on the shell
[9:56] <irc_smirk> im using bash
[9:57] <kiely> https://imgur.com/a/fO6tJ - see I have that kind of button. I need to know what pins would go where =\
[9:57] <kiely> 4 pin + ground I guess
[9:57] <Darkwell> if you are paranoid you can use logkeys .. ni if it exists on raspbian
[9:57] <irc_smirk> bash history
[9:57] <Darkwell> or you can stick to .bash_history
[9:58] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:58] <irc_smirk> im sad i had to kill those scripts
[9:58] <Darkwell> to me it seems you kno more than you claim to do ;)
[9:59] <irc_smirk> what yo umean?
[9:59] <Darkwell> noobs use not knowing .bash_history...
[9:59] <[Saint]> dpkg --get-selections
[10:00] <[Saint]> That'll list installed items.
[10:00] <irc_smirk> now thats the first time ive found it
[10:00] <[Saint]> Also, Ctrl+R is your friend in the terminal
[10:00] <Darkwell> np
[10:00] <irc_smirk> wow this nsof is great
[10:01] <Darkwell> lsof -Pni is your friend...
[10:01] <irc_smirk> so thats everything that my pi is doing
[10:01] * phantoxe (~destroy@acarlosss.broker.freenet6.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:01] <Darkwell> yeah
[10:01] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@162.13.47.212) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:02] * Willchill (~Willchill@CPE-121-220-65-11.lnse2.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:02] <irc_smirk> i see why people love linux
[10:02] <irc_smirk> its transparent
[10:03] <Darkwell> lsof shows everything when you are root
[10:03] <Darkwell> if u r pi it shows you networking activituws of pi user
[10:04] <irc_smirk> ahh i had to sudo it
[10:04] <irc_smirk> waht is dhclient
[10:04] <irc_smirk> this stuff is so fascinating to me
[10:04] <Darkwell> if you want to change username if pu a trick can be done
[10:04] <[Saint]> Not really a trick...
[10:05] <[Saint]> Standard Unix user management.
[10:05] <Darkwell> add anothe user with same uid and home
[10:05] <Darkwell> yes standard trick
[10:05] <[Saint]> That's totally unnecessary.
[10:06] <[Saint]> Yoican export all items in a specific home directory during user creation.
[10:06] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[10:06] <Darkwell> several ways to do same thing.. of course
[10:06] <[Saint]> *you can
[10:06] * netwoodle (~noodle@73.35.143.99) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:06] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:07] <Darkwell> if you edit passwdfile yo just replace pi with something else
[10:07] <Darkwell> then fux group file likewize
[10:07] <Darkwell> no expirting no nothing
[10:07] <zlimvos> irc_smirk: I loved the command 'screen' when i learned it. it keeps sessions in backgrounds, you can switch between many terminals with one ssh session, history login, screen sharing and more
[10:07] <[Saint]> That's an absolutely insane way of handling a very simple task.
[10:08] <irc_smirk> screen command not found
[10:08] <Darkwell> since uid is not changes just the maooing of a label
[10:08] <irc_smirk> is it sudo?
[10:08] <Darkwell> insane ?
[10:08] <[Saint]> Demonstrably.
[10:08] <Darkwell> apt-get install screen
[10:09] <irc_smirk> this reminds me of a mud game
[10:09] <Darkwell> nah its simple and it has always worked
[10:09] <zlimvos> probably needs to be installed with sudo apt-get install screen, and then yes sudo screen. but it needs some training to use. ill open a private chat not to flood the channel
[10:09] <[Saint]> zlimvos: fg and BG is the other one people forget about
[10:09] <[Saint]> *bg
[10:09] <Darkwell> sudo su
[10:09] <Sonny_Jim> disown
[10:10] <Darkwell> if youre tired of constantly sudoing...
[10:10] <Darkwell> when done
[10:10] <Darkwell> exit
[10:11] <irc_smirk> ok this one will take some learning
[10:11] <irc_smirk> so when these sites say they are hacked. is it because people leave ports open?
[10:11] <Darkwell> sudo apt-get man-db
[10:11] <Darkwell> man screen
[10:12] <Darkwell> man is your manual friend
[10:12] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@162.13.47.212) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:12] <abnormal> terminal?
[10:12] <irc_smirk> holy crap where are the pictures ;)
[10:13] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@162.13.47.212) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:14] <Darkwell> when installing simetimes packages has complement -doc packages to be installed that usually are man pages and example docs ub /usr/share
[10:15] * darkbasic_ (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:15] * abnormal (~abnormal@127.sub-70-209-131.myvzw.com) has left #raspberrypi
[10:16] <irc_smirk> i love this little thing
[10:17] <irc_smirk> something about having complete control over a computer feels empowering
[10:17] <irc_smirk> well i dont have much control yet but
[10:17] <irc_smirk> at least i know how to close my open windows now
[10:18] <Darkwell> welcome to linux world
[10:18] <irc_smirk> is this pretty much how people learn?
[10:18] <irc_smirk> jsut asking around?
[10:18] <Darkwell> or man pages
[10:18] * Tenebrous is now known as |brous
[10:18] <irc_smirk> right
[10:18] <[Saint]> Most people actually read the documentation.
[10:18] <[Saint]> That's not something people do these days.
[10:19] <[Saint]> Impatience.
[10:19] * |brous is now known as |
[10:19] <[Saint]> Nowadays people want quick fixes and easy answers.
[10:19] <Darkwell> linux journal
[10:19] * | is now known as Tenebrous
[10:19] * hurgh_afk is now known as hurgh
[10:19] <Darkwell> linux magazine
[10:19] <[Saint]> When I was starting...I learned from actual paper books.
[10:20] <[Saint]> *shock*
[10:20] <irc_smirk> grandpa whats paper
[10:20] * netwoodle (~noodle@73.35.143.99) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:20] <[Saint]> God it feels that way...
[10:20] <Sonny_Jim> Err
[10:20] <irc_smirk> the beard is long with this one
[10:20] <Sonny_Jim> Did someone just sudo screen rather than sudo su -?
[10:20] <[Saint]> Yep.
[10:21] * Sonny_Jim thwacks hand on face
[10:21] <Sonny_Jim> Is that worth a double picard facepalm?
[10:21] <Sonny_Jim> I mean, don't get me wrong, screen = awesome
[10:21] <Sonny_Jim> But really?
[10:21] <Sonny_Jim> *sigh*
[10:21] <irc_smirk> ive been using sudo -i to get to root
[10:21] <[Saint]> if you sudo all the things it'll be super secure
[10:21] * MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:22] <[Saint]> /s
[10:22] <irc_smirk> thing is root has same password as pi right now
[10:22] <Sonny_Jim> irc_smirk: If you like being empowered, learn a programming language
[10:22] <Sonny_Jim> Can guarentee you'll feel super awesome
[10:23] <irc_smirk> i do programming
[10:23] <irc_smirk> im doing node on the pi. thats why i gog it
[10:23] <[Saint]> Root shouldn't have a password AT ALL.
[10:23] <irc_smirk> *got
[10:23] <[Saint]> lock that password up.
[10:23] <irc_smirk> then how do you sudo it?
[10:23] <[Saint]> You don't.
[10:23] <Darkwell> hehe
[10:24] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:24] <[Saint]> There's no good reason to ever be root
[10:24] <Darkwell> use PAM tools to give pi user sudo creds to roit
[10:24] * Hydra (~Hydra@5751c98f.skybroadband.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:24] <[Saint]> Or...just edit the sudoers file, like normal people.
[10:24] <irc_smirk> i thought sudo password prompt was roots?
[10:24] <[Saint]> That's the only time you should ever be root
[10:25] <[Saint]> Giving su to a new user on a base system.
[10:25] <Darkwell> toor
[10:25] <[Saint]> Other than that.. Yeah. No. Just use your user with escalated privs.
[10:25] <[Saint]> irc_smirk: no sudo uses the local user password
[10:25] <[Saint]> Not roots.
[10:26] <[Saint]> That would be...terrible.
[10:26] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:26] * FR^2 (~frquadrat@farsquare.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:26] <irc_smirk> 08:26:17 up 4 days - thats exactly how much time i have on pi/linu
[10:26] <[Saint]> That'll be transparent to you because apparently you set both passwords the same.
[10:26] <irc_smirk> well couple hard reboots in there
[10:26] <[Saint]> But its asking for your user password.
[10:27] * DK-MODE (~Chad_Coop@80.71.26.65) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:27] <ShorTie> root is not bad, i like it really
[10:27] <irc_smirk> grandpa whats a good paper book you remember reading on this stuff
[10:27] <[Saint]> Its not per se, there's just no reason to be root.
[10:27] <[Saint]> It avoids stupid accidents
[10:27] * evil_dan2wik (~evil_dan2@unaffiliated/evil-dan2wik/x-0106201) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[10:27] <irc_smirk> man root No manual entry for root
[10:27] <irc_smirk> your move man
[10:28] <[Saint]> Why would there be a manual entry for a user?
[10:28] <irc_smirk> idontknowwhatimdoing.gif
[10:28] <[Saint]> You do know root is just a user account, yeah?
[10:28] * utack (~utack@ipb2183c04.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:28] * Hydra (~Hydra@5751c98f.skybroadband.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[10:28] * gadgetoid (~gadgetoid@host86-184-77-109.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: gadgetoid)
[10:28] <irc_smirk> yeah. but man root should bring up all kinds of tips
[10:29] * evil_dan2wik (~evil_dan2@unaffiliated/evil-dan2wik/x-0106201) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:29] <irc_smirk> tip 1- dont give out your root password
[10:29] <[Saint]> Tip 2- don't set the bloody root password the same as the local user
[10:29] <irc_smirk> yeah adafruit!
[10:29] <[Saint]> Tip 3- lock the root password
[10:30] * iceCalt (~iceCalt@p5DDCFD3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:30] * darkavenger_afk is now known as darkavenger
[10:30] <[Saint]> I feel like not giving out your passwords is kinda a common sense thing...
[10:30] <irc_smirk> can you guys imagine when someone does an occulus rift visualization of linux file systems and processes
[10:30] <[Saint]> Not duplicating them should be too, though, so...yeah.
[10:30] <irc_smirk> i learnt that in ferris bueller
[10:31] <irc_smirk> it would like tron
[10:31] * DK-MODE (~Chad_Coop@80.71.26.65) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[10:31] * basti (~basti@p2003005B4E1C60738DBCAB2B7FB69CF9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:32] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:35] <irc_smirk> ok can i ask one last really stupid question
[10:35] <irc_smirk> how do i set my time correctly
[10:36] <[Saint]> Probably the wrong timezone.
[10:36] <[Saint]> Change it in raspi-config
[10:36] * [Saint] retires to watch The Walking Dead episode, disturb him under pain of death
[10:38] * randt0sh (~tosh@t0x0sh.org) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:38] <irc_smirk> ok thanks everyone
[10:38] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:40] * D30 (~deo@222.127.13.226) Quit (Quit: D30)
[10:41] <irc_smirk> that did it thank saint
[10:41] * Jck_true (~quassel@unaffiliated/jcktrue/x-390518) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:45] <Sonny_Jim> Played on the new Walking Dead pinball this weekend, was interesting
[10:46] * slvmchn (~slv@209-6-93-101.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:47] * gadgetoid (~gadgetoid@host86-184-77-109.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:47] * Viper-7 (~viper7@ppp121-44-188-3.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:59] * skylite (~skylite@business-178-48-4-145.business.broadband.hu) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[10:59] * skylite (~skylite@business-178-48-4-145.business.broadband.hu) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:00] * winlu (~winlu@unaffiliated/winlu) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[11:55] <mikroskeem> hey whts the difference between start.elf and start_x.elf ? //i asked it before
[11:55] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[11:56] <NedScott> the later sounds cooler because of the X, and resonates better with the kids of today
[11:56] <NedScott> did I win? :D
[12:01] * huza (~My@123.128.142.54) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:03] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@151.241.227.29) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[12:08] <Bhaal> Is there any remedy for hot pixels on the Pi camera?
[12:08] <mikroskeem> NedScott: lol, but no, you didn't win :D
[12:10] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:12] <evil_dan2wik> mikroskeem, start_x.elf is recovery I think.
[12:12] <evil_dan2wik> or backup.
[12:12] * Vutral (~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:12] <mikroskeem> but what about start_cd.elf ?
[12:13] <evil_dan2wik> no idea
[12:14] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:16] <evil_dan2wik> mikroskeem, It looks like different start ups.
[12:16] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@151.241.227.29) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:17] <evil_dan2wik> mikroskeem, for different revisions of Pi possibly.
[12:18] * owen_ (~owen@180.200.150.71) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[12:18] * zap0 (~moofy@123-243-103-30.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:19] <zap0> hi, i'm an arduino abuser; thinking of jumping ship to rPI..
[12:19] <zap0> i have a proj idea.. that involves MANY output channels of audio.
[12:20] <Sonny_Jim> I'm currently playing around with SDL_mixer to do multi channel audio
[12:20] <Sonny_Jim> Seems to work OK but I've not really pushed it too far yet
[12:20] <zap0> i've looked at 1-bit audio electronics, and that looks cheap/easy/practical for making lots of audio channels.
[12:20] <Sonny_Jim> Oh, you mean multiple audio outputs?
[12:20] <zap0> yes
[12:21] <zap0> how many can i likely drive from the GPIOs ?
[12:21] <zap0> withOUT external DACs
[12:21] <Sonny_Jim> What's your desired sample rate/bit depth?
[12:21] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@151.241.227.29) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:21] <Sonny_Jim> And you'll need some form of DAC if you want to hear something
[12:21] * Visage (~visage@pdpc/supporter/active/visage) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:23] <zap0> audio.. so like average to good MP3 quality.
[12:24] <zap0> with 1-bit audio, i'm not sure what rate i need.. i think the answer is `as much as it takes to get avg/good MP3 quality`.
[12:24] <Sonny_Jim> You need to understand the difference between what an MP3 is and PCM audio
[12:24] <Sonny_Jim> Do you know what 1-bit audio sounds like?
[12:24] <shiftplusone> O_o
[12:24] <zap0> i suspect it sounds like shit at low bit rates.... and at higher bit rates it approaches acceptable.
[12:24] <Sonny_Jim> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGEp46A-8FQ
[12:25] <Sonny_Jim> Ignore the music, listen to the voice part as that's 1-bit
[12:25] <zap0> thats just 1 example of a specific bit rate.
[12:26] <Sonny_Jim> *sigh*
[12:26] <evil_dan2wik> zap0, 1bit is very very very bad.
[12:26] <Sonny_Jim> bit rate isn't the same as sample rate
[12:27] <Sonny_Jim> Let me find you a tutorial that explains it
[12:27] <Sonny_Jim> 1-bit DEPTH is what you mean
[12:27] <Sonny_Jim> https://www.applied-acoustics.com/techtalk/sampleratebitdepth/
[12:27] <Sonny_Jim> Read that
[12:28] * randt0sh (~tosh@t0x0sh.org) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:28] <zap0> http://www.romanblack.com/BTc_alg.htm this is good
[12:28] <Sonny_Jim> bit rate is simply how fast the data is encoded in the MP3. The MP3 decoder will convert that to a given bit depth and sample rate
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[12:29] <evil_dan2wik> bit rates are usually around 64/128bit aren't they?
[12:29] <niston> in audio?
[12:29] <evil_dan2wik> yes.
[12:29] <niston> 16bit is pretty common
[12:29] <Sonny_Jim> Depends, you can have variable or constant bit reates
[12:29] <niston> aka CD audi
[12:29] <niston> *o
[12:29] <evil_dan2wik> ok.
[12:29] * hyperair (hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[12:29] <Sonny_Jim> Again, don't confuse MP3 bit rate with bit depth and sample rate
[12:30] * Tach[out] is now known as Tachyon`
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[12:30] <Sonny_Jim> http://mp3.about.com/b/2012/03/07/bit-depth-vs-bit-rate.htm
[12:31] <zap0> i didn't come here to talk about MP3 terminology. i don't care about mp3. you asked about quality.. which is subjective, so i gave you an example. thats it. it wasn't a technical descirption of anything.
[12:31] <Sonny_Jim> zap0: I'm trying to educate you so you can achieve your goal, that's all
[12:31] <zap0> and i'm trying to keep you on the topic i want.
[12:31] <Sonny_Jim> Bah
[12:32] <Sonny_Jim> This *is* on topic
[12:32] <evil_dan2wik> I found this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-Multi-Room-Audio-MobileTabletPC-Contr/
[12:32] <evil_dan2wik> that might help.
[12:32] * zap0 reads
[12:32] <Sonny_Jim> I suppose it depends on what you actually want the final product to do, zap0
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[12:35] <zap0> play lots of channels of audio.. more than is available by a audio output, hence it will need to come out the GPIO. and external DACs isn't what i really want to do.
[12:35] <Sonny_Jim> Doesn't have to
[12:35] <Sonny_Jim> You can buy multi output USB soundcards
[12:35] <Sonny_Jim> Or just plug in more than one USB soundcard
[12:36] <zap0> how many outputs do they have ?
[12:36] <Sonny_Jim> Depends on what you buy
[12:36] <zap0> how do you keep them all in sync
[12:36] <Sonny_Jim> Unless you need to have sub millisecond timing, I wouldn't worry
[12:37] <zap0> how can i be sure that whatever ones i buy can play nicely together
[12:37] <Sonny_Jim> Most USB soundcards will work fine with each other
[12:38] <Sonny_Jim> You'll probably need to use an external powered USB hub though
[12:38] <Sonny_Jim> And I'm not too sure how many sound cards you could fit to the Pi before the USB bus gets congested
[12:38] <evil_dan2wik> zap0, I think I get what you were trying to do regarding the GPIO, but the Pi takes too much time to switch the GPIO pin to be useable.
[12:38] <Sonny_Jim> Most pro-audio multi output cards use Firewire for this reason
[12:39] * ThKo (~ThKo@ip-95-222-146-171.hsi15.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:39] <evil_dan2wik> you would probably be better off getting a DAC with multiple outputs.
[12:40] <Sonny_Jim> Do you want the outputs to play the same thing at the same time?
[12:40] <niston> zap0: how many channels are you going to need?
[12:40] <zap0> evil_dan2wik, i read somewhere in C you can get into the MHz rate
[12:41] <evil_dan2wik> yeah, but the audio would still be unstable because the linux OS steals lumps of time from the programs.
[12:41] <zap0> niston, good question. i WANT like 20.. but i will settle for `as many as is acceptably sounding`.
[12:41] <Sonny_Jim> Do these 20 channels play the same sound at the same time/
[12:42] <evil_dan2wik> Sonny_Jim, assume no?
[12:42] <niston> you could do with some multichannel USB cards, perhaps. a 7.1 card has 8 mono channels, for example.
[12:42] <zap0> Sonny_Jim, no.. that would not be a definition of many channels.
[12:42] <Sonny_Jim> evil_dan2wik: Never assume
[12:42] <evil_dan2wik> well, we have a definite answer now anyway.
[12:42] * Sonny_Jim nods
[12:43] <Sonny_Jim> My suggestion would be to get a multi channel USB sound card, or multiple cheap stereo USB sound cards
[12:43] <niston> yes I agree with Sonny_Jim there
[12:43] <zap0> http://www.dx.com/p/5-1-channel-usb-sound-card-adapter-blue-59037 not sure what "virtual" means here.. i can only see 2 jack outputs
[12:43] <Sonny_Jim> Or multiple Pis and a combination of the above
[12:43] <evil_dan2wik> zap0, virtual is not what you want.
[12:43] <niston> something like this maybe http://www.topd.ch/de/shop/IT-HARDWARE/PC-Komponenten/Komponenten/PC-Speaker/7.1-USB-Sound-Box-USB-2.0-konform-schwarz-000269908?gclid=CjwKEAjw8O2hBRDKur2lseLW6C8SJAC-r1J3WUr6mD7tcf30SP2JP_6ylJZRJICOZVov18HgT4irihoCrXzw_wcB&campaign=GoogleShoppingAdwords
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[12:45] <zap0> niston, that currency don't mean anything to me.
[12:45] <niston> its roughly equal to usd
[12:45] <niston> but that was just an example
[12:46] <zap0> ah ok
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[12:49] <niston> heh http://www.xmos.com/products/reference-designs/multichannel
[12:49] <evil_dan2wik> xmos is a good chipset imo
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[12:54] <zap0> none of these products i can find talk about linux drivers.
[12:55] <evil_dan2wik> ok.
[12:55] <evil_dan2wik> well, search for supported drivers?
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[12:58] <niston> you'd need ARM linux drivers anyway
[12:59] * ThKo (~ThKo@ip-95-222-146-171.hsi15.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:59] <topi`> part
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[13:05] <evil_dan2wik> part part
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[13:07] <Sonny_Jim> part part? Part!
[13:07] <zap0> whole - part = ?
[13:08] * swym (~swym@unaffiliated/swym) Quit (Quit: -)
[13:08] <zap0> Sonny_Jim, how many channels have you tried with SDL ? have you accessed multiple hardware devices simultaneously ?
[13:08] <zap0> what OS ?
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[13:10] <zap0> i've done some FMOD multi-channel before
[13:11] * gadgetoid (~gadgetoid@host86-184-77-109.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: gadgetoid)
[13:12] <evil_dan2wik> zap0, you could try turning the GPIO interface into an audio output to the quality of the video you saw before.
[13:14] * hurgh is now known as hurgh_afk
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[13:17] <Sonny_Jim> zap0: OS is Linux, what language do you want to use?
[13:18] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@151.241.200.94) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:19] <evil_dan2wik> zap0, another option is to use an arduino as the audio DAC and communicate with it using something like SPI
[13:19] <evil_dan2wik> you would probably have to code it yourself.
[13:19] <zap0> whichever one does the job i want. i ask cause you said you were doing SDL, just wondering if that related to rPI or not.
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[14:06] <benxyzzy> Anybody know how to remove all GUI from fbi image display? So JUST the image + black margins is visible.
[14:09] <shiftplusone> /usr/bin/fbi -T 1 -noverbose -a /etc/splash.png
[14:10] <shiftplusone> those seem to be the runes google spits out
[14:11] <benxyzzy> -noverbose is the one, cheers! (assumed it was referring to terminal output like most cmd progs)
[14:12] <shiftplusone> np
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[14:34] <niston> need some help starting a mono executable from init.d
[14:35] <niston> http://pastebin.com/HjPeujjQ
[14:35] <niston> gives no error, but doesn't start the executable either
[14:37] * bigx (~bigx@cam44-2-82-235-243-114.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[14:38] <evil_dan2wik> niston, does the executable need to be compiled under arm?
[14:38] * twikz (~twikz@p200300750F5F8D00400744901A45ED55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:38] <niston> ?
[14:38] <evil_dan2wik> the mono executable, is it architecture specific?
[14:39] <niston> its portable
[14:39] <niston> mono <file.exe> works fine
[14:39] <evil_dan2wik> oh
[14:39] <evil_dan2wik> well idk then.
[14:42] <shiftplusone> I start simple with rc.local
[14:42] * Natch (~Natch@c-0ecce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:42] <shiftplusone> then you'll know that the executable is able to run in that environment (it doesn't have many env vars set, and mono may rely on something that isn't there, for example)
[14:42] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:43] <niston> yeah I shall try this
[14:45] <niston> hmm it doesn't work when I try to start it in the background
[14:45] <niston> gives no error either, very helpful -.-
[14:45] <shiftplusone> try nohup?
[14:46] <niston> funny thing is it's there is ps output
[14:47] <evil_dan2wik> ps output of what?
[14:47] <niston> ./ps
[14:47] <shiftplusone> oh....
[14:47] <niston> well ps command
[14:47] <niston> hmm there's mono-service
[14:47] <shiftplusone> 'not working' and 'not working the way I expect' are very different things.
[14:47] <niston> I wonder....
[14:48] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[14:48] <shiftplusone> add debug messages and redirect the output. Or just write to a logfile.
[14:48] <evil_dan2wik> niston, it could be running but in a broken state because of something missing.
[14:48] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:48] <niston> evil_dan2wik: yes that's what I suspect
[14:48] <shiftplusone> Do you have any hardcoded paths in there?
[14:48] <niston> nope
[14:49] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:49] <shiftplusone> Ah okay... a common problem people run into is assuming the working directly will be the same as where the binary is located (which obviously isn't the case here)
[14:50] <niston> no I even paid attention to obtain and use the system specific path seperators :)
[14:50] <niston> (since this works on both windows and linux)
[14:50] <shiftplusone> are you relying on env vars to do that?
[14:50] <shiftplusone> (or anything else)
[14:50] <niston> var dirSep = System.IO.Path.DirectorySeparatorChar;
[14:50] * darkbasic_ (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:50] <niston> I have no clue on how mono resolves this internally
[14:51] <shiftplusone> Then I vote for debug messages for tracing the execution
[14:51] <niston> if I add something to rc.local that does not terminate, will I still be able to login via ssh?
[14:52] <shiftplusone> yes
[14:52] <niston> (since I cant use blah & to send it to background)
[14:52] * darkbasic (~quassel@host37-245-static.119-2-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:52] <niston> ook I'll try that first
[14:52] <shiftplusone> rc.local is the last thing that runs before the login prompt comes up, so all the other services are already running
[14:52] <niston> yeah, I been using it for the SNMP monitor I did last year
[14:53] <niston> but then I couldn't log in from console or something, I dont remember
[14:53] <shiftplusone> yup
[14:53] <niston> rebooting now
[14:54] * murlock (~murlock@2001:41d0:8:43b7::1) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:54] * iamjarvo (~textual@c-69-249-187-177.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:55] <niston> doesn't work
[14:56] <niston> hmm
[14:56] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[14:56] <niston> stupid question where's /var/log/messages on the pi?
[14:56] <shiftplusone> it was there last time I checked
[14:57] <niston> ah I did a typo thats why :)
[14:57] <niston> mesages
[14:57] * Mossfet (~Mossfet@109.115.184.92) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:57] <niston> -.-
[14:57] <shiftplusone> heh
[14:57] <niston> no error logged there
[14:57] <Mossfet> buongiorno!
[14:57] <niston> hi Mossfet! :D
[15:02] <Sonny_Jim> Hmm
[15:02] * twikz (~twikz@p200300750F5F8D00400744901A45ED55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ()
[15:02] * Sonny_Jim is reading how to read a keypress in Python
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[15:02] <Sonny_Jim> Seems to be very platform specific
[15:03] * GIANT_CRAB (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/giant-crab/x-5804277) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:06] <Mossfet> can i ask a question about raspberry configuration?
[15:06] * Fishy (~fishy@static-71-179-48-66.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] <shiftplusone> Why not? This is a raspberry pi support channel
[15:07] <GIANT_CRAB> lol
[15:07] <Mossfet> it's a noob's level question... :)
[15:07] <evil_dan2wik> so?
[15:07] <evil_dan2wik> ask away.
[15:08] <shiftplusone> It's an all-level raspberry pi support channel.
[15:08] <niston> no worries, it will be fine :)
[15:08] <GIANT_CRAB> My Pi Cam still isn't here yet, I hope Elec Nano didn't scam my pi camera
[15:08] <evil_dan2wik> GIANT_CRAB, charge back.
[15:08] * designbybeck_ (~designbyb@x183y152.angelo.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:08] <GIANT_CRAB> evil_dan2wik: I ordered off Amazon
[15:08] * designbybeck__ (~designbyb@x183y152.angelo.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:09] <evil_dan2wik> so?
[15:09] <Mossfet> i have my raspberry fully configured for my purpose, but i want to use it also for download from irc, there is something like an ircbot?
[15:09] <evil_dan2wik> how did you pay?
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[15:10] <GIANT_CRAB> paid through debit card on 22/9. :/ they said estimated delivery date is: Monday, October 6, 2014 - Thursday, October 16, 2014. My Pi got delivered from Pimoroni (Pi Swag store) within a week though (received on 1st October).
[15:11] <evil_dan2wik> GIANT_CRAB, charge back.
[15:11] <GIANT_CRAB> I'm feeling very worried... Shipping for such a small camera shouldn't take that long
[15:11] <evil_dan2wik> it depends
[15:11] <evil_dan2wik> I got my large stuff before I got my small stuff in my last postage batch I ordered.
[15:12] * Fishy (~fishy@static-71-179-48-66.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit ()
[15:12] <niston> GIANT_CRAB: call them?
[15:13] * skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:14] * Fishy (~fishy@static-71-179-48-66.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:14] <willmore> Anyone ever driven an eInk display with an rPi?
[15:15] <GIANT_CRAB> niston: ughh... Maybe I should just wait until 16/10 and then file a complain if its still not here.
[15:15] <GIANT_CRAB> Are there any weather disasters recently that might have delayed shipping from US?
[15:15] <Sonny_Jim> Weird, there's no switch/case in python
[15:15] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[15:15] <Sonny_Jim> I'm rapidly beginning to hate it even more....
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[15:16] <Sonny_Jim> zap0: I'm using C with the SDL library, but tbh I would suggest Python if you are new to programming
[15:16] <Sonny_Jim> C can be a bit of a headache
[15:16] <shiftplusone> O_o
[15:16] <shiftplusone> So can Python
[15:16] <Sonny_Jim> (really pains me to suggest C over python)
[15:16] <Sonny_Jim> I know
[15:17] <shiftplusone> you mean python over c?
[15:17] * Sonny_Jim nods
[15:17] <shiftplusone> if you're JUST learning, yeah maybe. But in the long run, C or C++ is the way to go.
[15:17] <shiftplusone> C for lower level and C++ when the application calls for it.
[15:17] <Sonny_Jim> Well, zap0 wanted to play multichannels sounds
[15:17] <Sonny_Jim> Actually, yeah use C
[15:17] <zap0> Sonny_Jim, i am C wizard. i hate python.. cause it's trendy thing to hate ;) meaning whitespace... pfft! thats silly!!
[15:18] <zap0> meaningful/
[15:18] <Sonny_Jim> You are a C wizard and you've not heard of SDL?
[15:18] * Sonny_Jim s mind boggles
[15:18] <zap0> did i say i had not heard of it?
[15:18] <zap0> i've used SDL.
[15:18] <zap0> 1.x nto 2
[15:18] <zap0> not
[15:18] <Sonny_Jim> oh, apologies
[15:19] <shiftplusone> There are many C wizards who only work on drivers and firmware, so I wouldn't be surprised if many of them have no idea about SDL.
[15:19] <zap0> i've not done SDL audio before.
[15:19] <Sonny_Jim> It's really easy
[15:19] <Sonny_Jim> I like it :-)
[15:19] <zap0> i've done FMOD multi-channel audio... and raw windows audio.
[15:19] <Sonny_Jim> You've already done multi-channel audio but don't understand the difference between bitrate and bit depth?
[15:19] <Sonny_Jim> O_o
[15:19] <Sonny_Jim> Anyway, I'll stop being a negative twit now
[15:20] <Sonny_Jim> Lemme find a good SDL audio tutorial
[15:20] <Sonny_Jim> http://content.gpwiki.org/index.php/SDL_mixer:Tutorials:Playing_a_WAV_Sound_File
[15:20] <zap0> you have narrow defintions of these terms, then argue like i don't know your narrow term, just because i use it in another context.
[15:21] <niston> zap0: might also want to check out BASS: http://www.un4seen.com/bass.html
[15:21] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:21] <Sonny_Jim> Dude, bitrate is not bitdepth, however you want to paint that picture
[15:22] <willmore> bitdepth? Each bit is exactly one bit deep.
[15:22] <zap0> in the context of 1bit audio, which is what the topic was when it was first bought up... they kind of are the same thing
[15:22] <niston> willmore: 8/16/24/32bit audio
[15:22] <willmore> You mean sample bit size?
[15:22] <niston> yeah
[15:22] <shiftplusone> Not going to have much luck doing anything audio related if you don't get the definitions straight.
[15:23] <willmore> Never heard it called bitdepth.
[15:23] * hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:23] <zap0> i use terms like bits-per-sample
[15:23] <willmore> ^^^
[15:24] <GIANT_CRAB> hmm, do u guys recommend python or C if pi camera and rabbitmq is involved?
[15:25] <zap0> GIANT_CRAB, i strongly recommend C whenever bandwidth is required.
[15:25] <zap0> such as cameras and *cough* multi-channel audio *cough*
[15:25] <shiftplusone> I'd use python there, actually.
[15:26] <shiftplusone> picamera is a decent library, by the sounds of it
[15:26] <GIANT_CRAB> I want to control a quadrocopter equipped with raspberry pi that has a camera on my unity3d compiled app on the phone.
[15:26] <niston> ooooh
[15:26] <niston> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9391466/mono-application-using-console-cancelkeypress-cannot-be-run-in-background
[15:26] <zap0> i recommend whatever you feel most comfortable with, when bandwidth is not an issue.
[15:26] <niston> now THAT might be the issue!
[15:27] <GIANT_CRAB> zap0: ooo. thanks!
[15:27] * Fishy (~fishy@static-71-179-48-66.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit ()
[15:27] <GIANT_CRAB> now the problem would be how to talk using RabbitMQ with C
[15:27] <zap0> GIANT_CRAB, why not camera on phone?
[15:27] <l_r> what is rabbitmq
[15:28] <niston> yeah
[15:28] * bigx (~bigx@92.103.106.18) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:28] <niston> now I can send it to background! :D
[15:28] <zap0> i suspect it's some weird messaging protocol.
[15:28] <l_r> mq?mosquitto?
[15:28] <GIANT_CRAB> zap0: uhh. i think i confused you a little. Im going to hack my quadrocopter and put a raspberry pi with picamera. then im going to use my phone to send signals to the pi in order to control it
[15:29] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[15:29] * Voovode (~alex@46-252-39.adsl.cyta.gr) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:29] <niston> still can't get it to work with init.d though
[15:29] <niston> retrying local.rc
[15:29] <zap0> GIANT_CRAB, so phone is on quad, or in your hand ?
[15:30] <GIANT_CRAB> and I /think/ RabbitMQ would work. Phone on my hand
[15:30] * samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:30] <GIANT_CRAB> So the phone send signals to the pi
[15:30] <zap0> GIANT_CRAB, what problem does RabbitMQ solve? not what-does-it-do.. what does it do better?
[15:30] <GIANT_CRAB> basically, i control the quadrocopter using my handphone
[15:30] <GIANT_CRAB> it does message delivery
[15:31] <GIANT_CRAB> or should i not use that to do message delivery?
[15:31] <zap0> let me guess... it's got a hole bunch of those quantee delivery and ordered delivery, and networking stuff.. and about 26 things you don't need.
[15:32] * Wryness (~Wryness@gateway/tor-sasl/lunario) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:32] <GIANT_CRAB> zap0: yes
[15:32] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[15:32] <GIANT_CRAB> i just want a way to talk to the pi using the unity3d app on my phone
[15:33] <GIANT_CRAB> RabbitMQ has a library for unity3d
[15:33] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@c119045.net21845.cablenet.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:34] <zap0> i likely what to pump updates at the copter quickly.. fuck reliable.. just send them, and then send them again.. and by the time "reliable" is done with it's transactions etc.. who cares! your next messages have already sent/arrived.
[15:34] <zap0> your not doing banking app.. all that extra overhead for reliable etc.. is useless stuff.
[15:34] <niston> yes!
[15:34] <niston> rc.local working now
[15:35] <niston> so it was the ctrl-c handler that was preventing it from going to background
[15:35] <niston> but I still don't understand why it doesn't work from init.d
[15:35] <GIANT_CRAB> so what should i use to talk to the pi so that the pi can pump updates to the copter quickly?
[15:35] <zap0> niston, doing C#/mono ?
[15:35] <niston> zap0 yes
[15:35] <niston> https://sirp.codeplex.com/
[15:35] <zap0> GIANT_CRAB, someting simple.. like a raw UDP.
[15:37] <zap0> niston, nice!
[15:37] <GIANT_CRAB> why didn't i think of that in the first place lol
[15:37] <GIANT_CRAB> hahaha thanks a lot zap0!
[15:37] * Slippern (~Slippern@76.109-247-208.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:37] * bizarro_1 (~bizarro_1@19.Red-83-47-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:37] * canton7 would use tcp for comms with a quadrocoptor, or design the protocol very very carefully
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[15:38] * samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[15:38] <zap0> canton7, i doubt he needs to send any single "blob" that is larger than a network packet, so why is reliable/ordered needed?
[15:39] <canton7> zap0, imagine what happens if your "stop rotors" message gets lost ;)
[15:39] <zap0> send it again.
[15:39] <niston> will be a problem with pure UDP
[15:39] <canton7> that's my point. either use tcp, which guarentees delivery for you already, or carefully design your protocol to handle things like resends yourself
[15:40] <niston> since you wont know when it didn't arrive
[15:40] * samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:41] <canton7> udp's good when you're spamming out state constantly, and it doesn't matter if the remote end misses some of that state. udp's not good for state *changes*
[15:41] <zap0> a quad copter probably has like what?.. a dozen possible modes/states it's in.. Y U NO send that state every packet.
[15:42] <canton7> that's fine and a perfectly good way to do it - provided that you spam out that state constantly, rather than just when it changes
[15:42] <canton7> that falls under "design the protocol very very carefully"
[15:43] <zap0> safety wise you probably want to send state anyway.. so any misc changes that occur outside your control are quickly corrected.
[15:43] * iceCalt (~iceCalt@p5DDCFD3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:43] * Slippern (~Slippern@76.109-247-208.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:43] * zlimvos (~zlimvos@f100226.upc-f.chello.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[15:43] <canton7> exactly
[15:44] <canton7> but this is the sort of thought that needs to go into using udp
[15:44] * SiC- (~Simon@193.37.225.144) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:44] * lazy_prince is now known as killer_prince
[15:44] <zap0> these are the sort of things that TCP doesn't just magically fix either.
[15:44] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:45] <niston> blizzard uses UDP on their WoW servers
[15:45] <niston> internally
[15:45] <niston> but there's a reliable network to be had there
[15:45] <canton7> most gaming stuff uses udp
[15:45] <niston> the client uses in fact a TCP connection
[15:45] <canton7> being on time is more important than being accurate :P
[15:46] <canton7> zap0, tcp will guarentee that your ill-formed "stop the rotors" message gets delivered. it's harder to get wrong
[15:46] <niston> I think facebook also uses UDP for internal messaging between server applications
[15:46] * SiC (~Simon@193.37.225.144) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[15:46] <zap0> niston "Gap-less switching between station presets" 9/10 times someone switches stations, is because they are deliberately leaving the current one. if the new station takes 20 seconds to connect and start buffering, does the user have to `tolerate` the current station for those 20 seconds ?
[15:46] <niston> but again, there's a reliable, wired network
[15:47] <niston> zap0: I thought it preferrable to sudden silence
[15:47] <zap0> niston, nice fade out should be an option
[15:47] <niston> also I don't prebuffer a lot
[15:48] <niston> thats what got me upset with winamp
[15:48] <niston> the sudden silence, then prebuffering for an unknown amount of time, then full volume again
[15:48] <zap0> silence is sometimes preferable to whatever garbage you are trying to switch away from
[15:48] <niston> you can always hit Stop :P
[15:49] <niston> the center button acts as play/stop
[15:49] <niston> but yeah might create an option that fades out the current station instantly
[15:50] <zap0> "Intelligent skipping of unavailable stations" how is that different from "dumb" skipping?
[15:50] * iamjarvo (~textual@pool-98-115-181-52.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:50] <niston> its to do with the station memory
[15:50] <niston> it accepts 99 presets, but you are free to assign the preset number
[15:50] <niston> so you may have presets 1,2,3,5,17,92
[15:50] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[15:50] <niston> ah
[15:51] <niston> and if a station is unavailable due to error it will skip to the next available one
[15:51] <zap0> ok... so how is that different from dumb skipping?
[15:51] <niston> dumb skipping would blink the error led and fall silent
[15:53] <zap0> so it's the difference between the "Next" button meaning next stn and it meaning next station that is avaliable
[15:53] <niston> yeah I guess
[15:53] <zap0> yeah, i guess that does consistute intelligence ;
[15:53] <zap0> ;)
[15:54] * niston needs to hire some marketing chimp to write the descriptions
[15:54] <niston> will pay in bananas :>
[15:56] <zap0> marketing people are morons, avoid them.
[15:56] <niston> but yeah I changed it to "Automatic skipping [...]"
[15:56] <niston> probably more accurate
[15:56] <zap0> that sound both informative and accurate. good wording.
[15:57] * Visage (~visage@pdpc/supporter/active/visage) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:58] * iceCalt (~iceCalt@p5DDCFD3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[15:58] <zap0> "intelligent" as a description for a device is rarely a good idea... humans are too proud of their "intelligence" .. making a machine intelligent is a challange to that "belief"
[16:00] <Sonny_Jim> Hawking has stated that strong AI will be the death of humanity
[16:00] <Sonny_Jim> (or something like that)
[16:00] <Sonny_Jim> We will no longer have to think
[16:00] <Sonny_Jim> But Hawkings is a bit of a dick, if I'm honest
[16:01] <niston> Sonny_Jim: http://xkcd.com/1046/
[16:01] <zap0> it will be somewhat true; there is already a segment of society that prides itself on it's non-thinkingness.
[16:02] * mikepparks (~mikeppark@173-228-71-193.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[16:03] * oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:04] * kij__ (~shinomori@c-76-23-251-139.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:05] <zap0> niston, lol.. skynet will go "crazy" trying to resolve the meaning of life... or like us, it will simple choice something stupid to cling too and use that as a crutch to prevent ourself going insane
[16:06] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:06] <shiftplusone> Or it will realise that not having inherent meaning/purpose other than replicating is not necessarily a bad thing.
[16:06] <zap0> it's a pity so many people choose religion as that crutch, cause it's a rather juvenile choice
[16:07] <zap0> replicating is a nice way to pass the time ;)
[16:07] * Mossfet (~Mossfet@109.115.184.92) Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[16:07] * Xano (~bart@ip-213-127-200-52.ip.prioritytelecom.net) Quit (Quit: Xano)
[16:07] <niston> interesting
[16:07] * g_r_eek (~g_r_eek@46.227.60.214) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[16:08] <niston> > /usr/local/bin/gpio write 22 1
[16:08] <niston> doesn't work from rc.local
[16:09] <pksato> why not?
[16:09] <zap0> niston, is it some type of permissions problem
[16:09] * iamjarvo (~textual@pool-98-115-181-52.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[16:09] <shiftplusone> wouldn't have permissions problems there. rc.local runs as root
[16:09] <pksato> niston: put it before exit line?
[16:09] <niston> pksato: yes
[16:09] <niston> also do the mode first
[16:10] <niston> > /usr/local/bin/gpio -g mode 22 out
[16:10] <niston> > /usr/local/bin/gpio write 22 1
[16:10] <niston> oooh
[16:10] <niston> LOL
[16:10] <niston> I forgot the -g
[16:10] <niston> -.- -.- -.-
[16:10] <shiftplusone> what time is it over there, niston?
[16:10] <niston> sometimes it helps *just* posting to IRC
[16:10] <niston> 16:10
[16:10] <shiftplusone> then you have no excuse
[16:10] <niston> hehehe
[16:10] * Xano (~bart@ip-213-127-200-52.ip.prioritytelecom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <shiftplusone> and yeah, just asking always helps. 90% of the time I turn around to ask my co-workers anything, I hear how stupid what I'm saying is and see where the problem is >.>
[16:11] <niston> yup
[16:11] <niston> we called it "the palm"
[16:12] <shiftplusone> of course the negative sideffect is that everyone thinks you're an idiot if you keep doing that >.>
[16:13] <shiftplusone> My debugging technique now is "pretend you're explaining what this code does to somebody else, if that doesn't work, treat it as somebody else's code"
[16:13] <shiftplusone> Helps drop silly assumptions
[16:13] <zap0> i solve that problem by being an idiot from the outset.
[16:13] <niston> heheh
[16:13] <shiftplusone> Yeah, but I'd like to leave a good impression and all that....
[16:13] <zap0> "i've got this friend...that is having trouble with HIS code... the problem is... "
[16:13] <shiftplusone> which probably isn't going to happen by wasting time on IRC <.<
[16:15] * RaMcHiP (~RaMcHiP@173.218.82.188) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:18] * jaggz-l (~effel@unaffiliated/jaggz) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:19] <jaggz-l> lots of podcasts in itunes app... is there a good interface for these type of things with an audio onoy rpi?
[16:19] <jaggz-l> only
[16:20] <jaggz-l> i have no display.. except my android phone or ipad mini..
[16:22] * m1nus (~m1nus@c-76-30-178-81.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[16:22] * murlock (~murlock@2001:41d0:8:43b7::1) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:23] <shiftplusone> I don't know of any program off the top of my head which can deal with itunes links, but there should be plenty of rss-based podcast subscription programs and ways to get the rss feeds for itunes podcasts
[16:24] <jaggz-l> thanks
[16:25] <shiftplusone> (..for nothing) >.>
[16:25] <jaggz-l> yeah i have newsbeuter installed and working.. althougj it doesnt seem to get the embedded feeds.. i have to pipe the rss entry to a script i wrote to dl it
[16:26] <jaggz-l> so im downloading mp4s, for instance, from a ted.com rss feed
[16:27] <jaggz-l> cant seem to get newsbeuters macros working either.. not sure why
[16:28] <jaggz-l> with a macro i couod set the browser to my scripts name and execute it that way
[16:29] <jaggz-l> thatd let me bind a key for this, instead of having to send a pipe and my command name.. yick
[16:29] * SiC- (~Simon@193.37.225.144) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[16:31] * niston is hungry
[16:31] <niston> must... eat...
[16:32] <shiftplusone> that's a good solution to the problem
[16:32] <Sonny_Jim> Hmm
[16:33] <Sonny_Jim> In a C program, if I want to stop a second instance of it running on the same machine/user, the solution is to use mutexes, right?
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> Generally not.
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> Writing a file with your current process ID, and then checking that on start.
[16:36] <Sonny_Jim> Ah ok
[16:36] <Sonny_Jim> That would make more sense
[16:38] <Sonny_Jim> What if the program crashes and doesn't delete the PID file?
[16:38] <Ryitt> Should limelight work anymore on raspberry pi (raspbian)? I have nvidia experience 2.1.3.0. Tried test latest and earlier limelight on raspi. and java 7 and 8. I have error GFE error: Streaming session has failed due to a game management error. (Error code: 522). ports are open, and i have only one partition on pc.
[16:39] * emilsedgh (~emilsedgh@kde/developer/esedgh) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:40] <emilsedgh> Hi. I have a raspberry model B with raspbian/xbmc installed on it. When I play HD videos, only the sound plays and there's no video. I bought the codecs and enabled them, but it had no effect.
[16:40] <emilsedgh> Is there something obvious im missing?
[16:40] <Darkwell> do u know if rtorrent is the only terminal client that you could connect with transdoid ?
[16:41] <shiftplusone> emilsedgh, what sort of files are they?
[16:42] <emilsedgh> shiftplusone: there is an mkv and an mp4.
[16:43] <shiftplusone> mkv is a container and mp4 shouldn't need any extra codecs.
[16:44] * skylite (~skylite@business-178-48-4-145.business.broadband.hu) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[16:44] <emilsedgh> shiftplusone: any ideas where i should start to troubleshoot this? any keywords? its a very general search term, im not finding anything relevant
[16:44] <shiftplusone> doesn't answer your question, but at least you know you didn't need to buy the extra codecs >.>
[16:44] <shiftplusone> well, break it down to a minimal test case first, so that we can take a look at it here.
[16:44] <shiftplusone> have you tried playing the file with omxplayer?
[16:45] <emilsedgh> no I havent, will try doing so shiftplusone
[16:45] <emilsedgh> thanks.
[16:46] * Xano (~bart@ip-213-127-200-52.ip.prioritytelecom.net) Quit (Quit: Xano)
[16:47] * skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:47] <Darkwell> just dont like rutorrent seems using php...
[16:48] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@c119045.net21845.cablenet.ne.jp) Quit (Quit: amigojapan)
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[16:53] <GIANT_CRAB> Darkwell: these days you can hide PHP very very well and nobody will know
[16:54] <GIANT_CRAB> anyways, most sites are PHP/Apache stack.
[16:54] <Darkwell> replace it w python...
[16:54] <Darkwell> php is jyst bad stuff
[16:54] <GIANT_CRAB> not a lot of people do Django
[16:54] <canton7> o rly? well, so long as export_php hasn't been set false, you can tell: http://php.net/expose-php
[16:55] <GIANT_CRAB> Laravel is pretty good actually.
[16:55] * nStensen (~also@32.149.34.95.customer.cdi.no) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:55] <canton7> aww they disabled the magic guids
[16:55] <GIANT_CRAB> yea, u set that in php.ini
[16:55] <GIANT_CRAB> pretty ez to do that
[16:55] <canton7> yeah, but most people don't bother :P
[16:57] <GIANT_CRAB> well, most people also don't bother looking out for reviews on software before using them
[16:57] <GIANT_CRAB> zPanel has tons of exploits but some people still say its "very good" although their VPS got exploited and was used for DDoS and spam
[16:57] <Darkwell> if eve online was on php... it would just ruin the business all over...
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[17:10] <niston> php.. the qbasic of zee interwebz
[17:10] * bigx (~bigx@92.103.106.18) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[17:14] <grammoboy> what is a good usb wifi adapter for rpi?
[17:14] <shiftplusone> grammoboy, the edimax one
[17:14] <PovAddict> I have the one that came with my CanaKit kit and it works well
[17:14] <shiftplusone> EW-7811Un
[17:14] <PovAddict> except I can't hotplug it, it has to be plugged in when I power on the raspi
[17:15] <shiftplusone> PovAddict, that will be pretty much all of them on a B.
[17:15] <PovAddict> ah I see
[17:15] <shiftplusone> maybe there are exceptions, but it's still not a good idea to hotplug them.
[17:15] <linwiz> I bought a cheap chinese one on ebay, works great. No issues to report.
[17:16] <linwiz> It's one of those micro/mini usb wifi-N ones
[17:17] <mikroskeem> i bought tp-likn tl-wn821n
[17:17] <mikroskeem> *tp-link
[17:17] <mikroskeem> buggy as hell
[17:17] <mikroskeem> after 3hrs of using it crashes rpi
[17:20] * NedScott (~nedscott@xbmc/staff/nedscott) Quit (Quit: NedScott)
[17:21] <grammoboy> shiftplusone, thx
[17:21] * bigx (~bigx@92.103.106.18) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:22] <niston> shiftplusone: Hotplugging doesn't seem to work with the USB speakers I have
[17:22] <shiftplusone> To elaborate a bit. It's one of the few that doesn't have a cheap chipset which eats up CPU doing the decoding. And it doesn't require additional drivers.
[17:24] <niston> it could be related to a "default device" issue I think
[17:24] * Muzer (~muzer@cpc1-sotn13-2-0-cust331.15-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[17:24] * shiftplusone doesn't go near linux audio
[17:25] * iamjarvo (~textual@pool-98-115-181-52.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:26] <grammoboy> how important is an 5.2 volt output adapter?
[17:26] * grammoboy newbie
[17:26] * jhulten (~jhulten@c-174-61-252-243.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:26] <shiftplusone> not sure what you mean
[17:27] * zaveman (~zaveman@66-87-125-101.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:27] <shiftplusone> where did the 5.2v number come from?
[17:27] <RaTTuS|BIG> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=promotions/topsellers
[17:27] <grammoboy> they seem to have a special adapter for the rpi, with 5.2 output
[17:27] <grammoboy> http://www.kiwi-electronics.nl/microusb-voeding-5V2-2A
[17:27] * NedScott (~nedscott@xbmc/staff/nedscott) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:28] <niston> you'd expect an .nz domain with a name like that :P
[17:28] <PovAddict> :D
[17:28] * aural (~aural@unaffiliated/necrodearia) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:28] <shiftplusone> The important thing is that you get something close to 5v at the pi's input terminals and that it stays constant over the entire load range.
[17:28] <RaTTuS|BIG> oops ... errm 5.2V is in the torration limits - I know a few places that sell them
[17:28] <shiftplusone> If you have a genuine phone charger, that'll work.
[17:29] <grammoboy> "There is now a 5.25V 1500mA power supply manufactured specially for the Raspberry Pi to account for voltage drop"
[17:29] * RaMcHiP (~RaMcHiP@173.218.82.188) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[17:29] * b4ggi0 (~b4ggi0@58.229.184.213) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:29] <grammoboy> http://elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals#Power_adapters
[17:29] <shiftplusone> a good power supply with a decent cable wouldn't have a significant voltage drop
[17:29] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[17:29] <RaTTuS|BIG> a good quality 5V one is also easy to find ...
[17:29] <shiftplusone> forget the verified peripherals lists, they're useless.
[17:29] <emilsedgh> when I try to play HD files from my raspberry (with raspbian/xbmc) no video is played. I get this in my debug.log file: "OMX_ErrorInsufficientResources" Anyone knows what resource does it want?
[17:29] <shiftplusone> It's a "some guy on the internet said this thing worked for him" list, which has 0 value.
[17:29] <niston> http://www.misco.de/product/186172 <- this works very well for me
[17:30] <RaTTuS|BIG> emilsedgh probably yuou have set teh GPIU memory too low
[17:30] <shiftplusone> The only one we use in the office: http://swag.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-universal-power-supply
[17:30] <NedScott> emilsedgh: because you're using raspbian and you didn't give the GPU enough memory
[17:30] <NedScott> if you want XBMC then use OpenELEC
[17:30] <emilsedgh> you guys are awesome, RaTTuS|BIG, NedScott. Where can I change those settings?
[17:30] * zap0 (~moofy@123-243-103-30.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Quit: zap0)
[17:31] <RaTTuS|BIG> sudo nano /etc/config.txt
[17:31] <RaTTuS|BIG> umm /boot/config.txt
[17:31] * zaveman (~zaveman@66.87.125.101) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:31] <emilsedgh> thanks RaTTuS|BIG. My pi is more than a media center. It also acts as my wireless router.
[17:31] <emilsedgh> that's why I have raspbian
[17:31] <niston> oooh the raspberry stickers r back!
[17:31] <NedScott> OpenELEC can do that too
[17:31] <emilsedgh> ooh, nice NedScott. thanks a lot.
[17:31] <emilsedgh> i will now look into it.
[17:33] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[17:37] <grammoboy> how much microsd storage is advised?
[17:37] <grammoboy> 16?
[17:37] <niston> as much as you can afford
[17:37] <niston> as wear-leveling will use all of it, even if you dont
[17:37] <NedScott> you can get away with 32 MB
[17:38] <NedScott> technically speaking
[17:38] <NedScott> :D
[17:38] <RaTTuS|BIG> ;-p
[17:39] <shiftplusone> 8GB is plenty
[17:39] <emilsedgh> NedScott: RaTTuS|BIG: I used raspi-config to change memory split and its wonderful now! the performance is so great now. Thanks a lot
[17:39] <shiftplusone> if you don't plan to store movies and such
[17:39] <RaTTuS|BIG> +1
[17:40] <`Nef> Or blockchains
[17:42] <niston> Ohmsläw haha
[17:42] <niston> I'll have one please!
[17:42] * D-Boy (~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:42] <shiftplusone> ah yeah, that one's brilliant. I have been meaning to get one as well.
[17:43] <niston> :D
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[17:55] <grammoboy> which video cable to connect the B+ to an analog tv do I need?
[17:55] <grammoboy> http://www.hardwarewebwinkel.nl/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-kabels
[17:55] <shiftplusone> b or a b+?
[17:56] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[17:56] <nerdboy> B+ has analog video?
[17:56] <shiftplusone> of course
[17:56] <shiftplusone> hidden inside the audio jack
[17:56] <nerdboy> isn't it missing the rca connector?
[17:57] <nerdboy> ah, trs+ video connector?
[17:57] <shiftplusone> yup... which is why it's in the analog jack.
[17:57] <niston> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iBfzgWBEZwM/UKfOE7KOzVI/AAAAAAAAA1U/NoZ6QJoC8TI/s400/3.5mmHeadphoneJackSchematicDiagram_thumb.jpg
[17:57] <shiftplusone> don't know what flavour it is, but yet.
[17:57] <shiftplusone> *yes
[17:57] <niston> one of these :D
[17:57] <niston> my old mp3 player uses it for USB
[17:57] <nerdboy> got a couple of those cables already...
[17:57] * Hily is now known as Hily_noms
[17:58] <shiftplusone> not 100% on the pinout, but you'd assume the audio and gnd connections are the same and the extra one is video.
[17:58] <niston> that would be sensible, yes
[17:58] <PovAddict> my ancient 8mm-tape video camera has something similar
[17:58] <niston> PovAddict: remote control?
[17:58] <PovAddict> trs connector, gives composite video and analog audio through that
[17:58] <niston> eh strike that :P
[17:58] <PovAddict> er
[17:59] <PovAddict> I meant to say mono audio
[17:59] * GIANT_CRAB (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/giant-crab/x-5804277) Quit (Quit: Daily reminder to stay hydrated, plebs.)
[17:59] <PovAddict> of course it's analog :P
[17:59] <niston> and I was thinking 8mm film camera ;)
[17:59] <niston> but yeah video8 u talk about
[17:59] <shiftplusone> agh... they shouldn't give out free cake on a monday. If you have free cake at the start of the day, that's all productivity gone. >=/
[17:59] <PovAddict> yep
[17:59] <PovAddict> mmmmmm cake
[17:59] <niston> shiftplusone: cake or death?!
[17:59] * PovAddict eats shiftplusone's cake
[18:00] <shiftplusone> >=/
[18:00] <shiftplusone> that cake is long gone
[18:00] <niston> death then.
[18:00] <niston> sorry.
[18:00] <niston> but we ran out of cake.
[18:00] <shiftplusone> I'm just reflecting on what I got done today and how I am not really going to do anything in the next half hour before I go home.
[18:00] <nerdboy> monday should be free espresso day...
[18:01] <shiftplusone> free cake fridays are the best, I think.
[18:01] <nerdboy> we used to have bagels on friday...
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[18:05] <shiftplusone> Think I'll just sneak out and go home if it's not raining.
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[18:06] <shiftplusone> that settles it then... home time.
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[18:11] <niston> later shiftplusone
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[18:43] <shiftplusone> niston, did you figure out your mono woes?
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[18:55] <niston> shiftplusone: yes :)
[18:55] <niston> either that, or the stream one wouldn't exist =]
[18:56] <niston> even dedicated a blog post to it: http://niston.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/black-magic-programming/
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[19:11] <Vibe> hi
[19:12] * RaMcHiP (~RaMcHiP@173.218.82.188) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:12] <Vibe> my rpi jamms after smsc eth0 register, nothing more comes after that
[19:13] <Vibe> even I don't have eth0 connected
[19:13] <Vibe> using raspbian
[19:14] <Vibe> tried sd-card on another rpi, same thing, so os problem
[19:14] <Vibe> ideas?
[19:14] <leftyfb> Vibe: what do you have plugged into it? What is the current output of the power adapter you're using to power it?
[19:14] <leftyfb> Vibe: if it's the OS, then just image a new one. Or maybe the SD card is bad
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[19:17] <Vibe> tried on different power adapter also, 1A power
[19:17] <Vibe> yea OS or sd-card problem
[19:17] <leftyfb> try reimaging the SD card with a freshly downloaded raspian image and/or try a different SD card
[19:17] <shiftplusone> what do you mean by jams? What actually happens? Do you have a multimeter? Is it a b or a b+?
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[19:18] <Vibe> was there some key I can press on boot to skip something?
[19:18] <leftyfb> Vibe: why not try the basic troubleshooting steps first?
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[19:19] <Vibe> shiftplusone: I just mean os stops loading there, I can press "enter" and then it asks what runlevel
[19:19] <shiftplusone> Would need to see the full output
[19:20] <leftyfb> or just do basic troubleshooting; process of elimination/trial and error
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[19:21] <nezZario> Where can I get a base version of Debian for my pi?
[19:22] <leftyfb> nezZario: http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads
[19:22] <nezZario> has anyone tried netflix+debian on pi?
[19:22] <leftyfb> nezZario: I don't think there's any distro's out there for pi based on debian with a "base" version (I assume you mean without gui, extras, etc)
[19:22] <shiftplusone> nezZario, there are no debian images for the pi that are maintained.
[19:23] <shiftplusone> and netflix won't work
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[19:23] <shiftplusone> there's playon, but that doesn't count.
[19:23] <nezZario> Are you sure? Debian Jessie+Chrome is working for me as of 3 days ago
[19:23] <leftyfb> I wonder if pipelight could work
[19:23] <nezZario> On x86-64
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[19:23] <shiftplusone> yes I'm sure
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[19:23] <leftyfb> shiftplusone: have you tried pipelight?
[19:24] <shiftplusone> don't need to
[19:24] <Vibe> there's the output -> http://i.imgur.com/Osbl5pb.jpg
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[19:24] <leftyfb> shiftplusone: Is there some article out there that says it won't work?
[19:24] <shiftplusone> Vibe, the actuall error is 'no inittab file found' Your filesystem is borked.
[19:24] <leftyfb> Vibe: have you tried a freshly downloaded image and/or a new SD card?
[19:25] <shiftplusone> leftyfb, not that I know of.
[19:25] <Vibe> ohh
[19:25] <Vibe> problem is that sd-card has custom image with custom software
[19:25] <Vibe> hmmm
[19:26] <leftyfb> Vibe: restore from backup
[19:26] <Vibe> hope I can find my backup :p
[19:26] <leftyfb> Vibe: or try to mount the SD card on a linux pc and make a backup (if the filesystem is well enough)
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[19:28] <nezZario> has anyone used an rpi as a thin client ?
[19:28] <shiftplusone> If you're lucky, inittab is the only missing file and you can use a standard one to replace it. But it would be best to figure out why it's missing in the first place.
[19:28] <nezZario> i.e. connecting to a remote (intranet) X server?
[19:28] <shiftplusone> nezZario, yes sir, lots of people.
[19:29] <leftyfb> nezZario: I'm trying that at the moment actually and getting really bad results
[19:29] <shiftplusone> look up berryterminal, for example
[19:29] <nezZario> "bad"?
[19:29] <nezZario> bad quality, slow bad, .. or not working bad?
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[19:29] <shiftplusone> or google ltsp raspberry pi
[19:29] <Vibe> yeah found my backup, should be fine to rewrite the corrupted one with it
[19:30] <leftyfb> nezZario: slow as hell
[19:30] <Vibe> if it doesn't work then sd-card is bad
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[19:30] <leftyfb> nezZario: I was trying out http://rpitc.blogspot.com and running spice to some kvm's on a server
[19:30] <nezZario> leftyfb: is it a network or cpu/gpu issue, though?
[19:30] <Vibe> thx leftyfb, shiftplusone
[19:30] <nezZario> i'm going to have to try this out when I get home ;)
[19:30] <leftyfb> nezZario: it's not going to be network since it's wired 10/100 on a very small network
[19:31] <leftyfb> it could be GPU
[19:31] <shiftplusone> good luck
[19:31] <flexus> Vibe: filesystem can be checked with fsck
[19:31] <shiftplusone> and regarding your debian question earlier... there is no reason to use debian over raspbian.
[19:31] <leftyfb> nezZario: I ran the spice client on my laptop and was able to watch and listen to youtube video's running on the kvm just fine
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[19:33] <leftyfb> i'll have to look into this berryterminal but it's going to be a pain since there's a bug with Ubuntu 14.04 which is what our server runs. I'll have to setup a new one
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[19:34] <leftyfb> also it doesn't fit our needs in the maker space since we need access to Windows VM's, not just X forwarded linux applications
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[19:44] <nezZario> I am just trying to access my deb jessie desktop upstairs from a "tv" downstairs
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[19:48] <ech0s7> i need help on reverse tunneling
[19:48] <ech0s7> anyone ?
[19:48] <ech0s7> (ssh reverse tunnel)
[19:50] <shiftplusone> ech0s7, it's better to just ask the question.
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[19:53] <ech0s7> i have opened a reverse tunnel on rpi behind NAT to my home machine with this command: ssh -Ntg -R *:8001:localhost:80 ech0s7@home.mydns.com
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[19:53] <ech0s7> from my machine if i open a brower on localhost:8001 i can see rpi webserver
[19:54] <ech0s7> but why if i try to access from third machine to home.mydns.com:8001 i get connection refused ?
[19:54] <ech0s7> (home.mydns.com is not real name)
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[19:56] <PhotoJim> ech0s7: the normal method is to forward out from your NAT box
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[19:57] <PhotoJim> ech0s7: tell it to forward port 8001 to your Pi, and have your webserver on the Pi monitor port 8001 to make it simpler
[19:57] <ech0s7> PhotoJim: my home machine is public
[19:57] <ech0s7> and rpi is behind nat
[19:57] <PhotoJim> the NAT box the Pi is behind needs to forward port 8001 to the Pi
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[20:15] <stormbytes> anyone else having serious sd card corruption problems?
[20:15] <flexus> yep
[20:16] <stormbytes> i've had to reflash my card every other day ugh seems every time i power down the rpi the card goes to shit
[20:16] <stormbytes> is it a bad card or what
[20:16] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, is it a class 10?
[20:16] <flexus> maybe bad card. dont know, i used some cheap one
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[20:17] <stormbytes> I'm using a sandisk card
[20:17] <stormbytes> ugh this blows
[20:17] <flexus> sandisk is a good one as i know
[20:17] <flexus> very reliable
[20:17] <stormbytes> apparently not
[20:17] <stormbytes> well.. least not my card
[20:17] <stormbytes> i'm wondering if there's something i'm doing that's causing this?
[20:17] <flexus> i changed the sd card and testing now for some weeks
[20:18] <shiftplusone> again, is it a class 10?
[20:18] <flexus> i was shutting down and didnt unplug before my error
[20:18] <martk100> Is there an easy way to overwrite a string in a file in another directory using python?
[20:18] <flexus> dont know if it harmed the card
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[20:19] <shiftplusone> martk100, what exactly are you having trouble with? it's basic file manipulation.
[20:19] <stormbytes> i was just pulling the plug :)
[20:19] <stormbytes> can you actually harm an sd card? i mean physically
[20:19] <flexus> sure, you might do that
[20:19] <stormbytes> (without use of a hammer)
[20:20] <martk100> If I f.write it deletes the file. If I append it just appends. What do |I use?
[20:21] <shiftplusone> martk100, google seems to suggest that python is stupid and you need to read, edit and then re-write.
[20:21] <flexus> one of my cheap sd cards got mechanical problems and got a crack in the middle.
[20:21] <shiftplusone> martk100, actually, take a look at fileinput. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17140886/how-to-search-and-replace-text-in-a-file-using-python
[20:21] <stormbytes> this card doesn't have any physical damage
[20:21] <flexus> the glue for the 2 plates was shit
[20:21] <stormbytes> but it gets corrupted all the time
[20:22] <martk100> shiftplusone: How do I edit in python?
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[20:22] <martk100> shiftplusone: I have looked at that it is overkill.
[20:22] <shiftplusone> How is it overkill?
[20:23] <shiftplusone> it's 3 lines of code
[20:24] <martk100> shiftplusone: IOk maybe I looked at something different. I will look at that.
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[20:24] <flexus> stormbytes: i got 1 serious error, but that affected my filesystem on the usb hdd too - mysterious
[20:24] <stormbytes> weird
[20:25] <stormbytes> will get another card. i'm sick of dd'ing this one
[20:25] <stormbytes> waste of time
[20:25] <flexus> right, didnt want to try it too again with my cheap card
[20:25] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, or..... we could actually try to figure out the issue. There are 2 known reasons some sd cards don't work.
[20:26] <shiftplusone> well, make that 3
[20:26] <stormbytes> love to...
[20:26] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@host213-155-dynamic.55-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
[20:26] <stormbytes> though... what do you mean by 'don't work' ? my card 'works' fine when its flashed but suffers regular data corruption
[20:26] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, k, reason 1) some class 10 sd cards have timing issues due to the bus type they're using. Is it a class 10?
[20:27] <stormbytes> how would i know?
[20:27] <shiftplusone> Check the packaging or the card itself... It should have a number on it
[20:27] <shiftplusone> in a little swirley thing
[20:27] <stormbytes> says... Sandisk 4G Micro SD
[20:27] <stormbytes> nothing else -- no pkg
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[20:28] <stormbytes> hmm
[20:28] <shiftplusone> k, we'll put a pin in that one. Are you running something like mysql?
[20:28] <flexus> some of my spare cards are class b
[20:28] <stormbytes> there's what appears to be a '4' with circle around it
[20:28] <stormbytes> that's it.
[20:28] <flexus> class 64
[20:29] <flexus> both class 6
[20:29] <stormbytes> basically -- stay clear of class #10
[20:29] <stormbytes> what's the second issue?
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[20:29] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, are you running mysql?
[20:30] <stormbytes> nope
[20:30] <stormbytes> raspian base install with rvm/ruby
[20:30] <stormbytes> raspbian
[20:30] <shiftplusone> then the last thing to try is to run a fake sd card checker
[20:30] <stormbytes> latest img
[20:30] <shiftplusone> http://www.rmprepusb.com/tutorials/-fake-usb-flash-memory-drives
[20:31] <stormbytes> what exactly is a 'fake sd card checker' ?
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[20:31] <stormbytes> checks if the sd card is counterfeit?
[20:31] <shiftplusone> supposed to anyway
[20:32] <PovAddict> some pendrives / SD cards lie about their capacity
[20:32] <flexus> interesting, thx shiftplusone
[20:32] <PovAddict> and work well until you fill up their *real* capacity
[20:33] <flexus> my rootfs was kinda full,...
[20:33] <shiftplusone> There's some software that does extra checks, like model number, vendor id or whatever other info you can read back from the device and checks that it's cromulent.
[20:34] <flexus> 94% in use
[20:34] <shiftplusone> I don't have the link handy though
[20:34] <stormbytes> that's interesting... i'm pretty sure a lot of my issues started after i used raspi-config to expand to use full sd card
[20:34] <stormbytes> i'm on a mac
[20:35] <shiftplusone> But if you have eliminated the three known causes, it may be worth sending the card to Gordon at RPF to test it. Last I saw he was working on an sd card sniffer contraption, I think.
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[20:37] <stormbytes> i just downloaded f3write which seems to be a command line checker
[20:38] <stormbytes> i'm zero'ing out the card now.. hopefully if there's a bad cluster somewhere it will show up, otherwise f3write might find it.
[20:39] <shiftplusone> f3 looks good
[20:42] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@static-5-51-3-145.ftth.abo.bbox.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:43] <stormbytes> damn
[20:43] <stormbytes> where will the fraud stop
[20:43] <stormbytes> serioulsy... what ever happened to representing something AND selling that same something! ugh
[20:45] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, found the problem?
[20:45] <stormbytes> not yet... still zero'ing out the drive
[20:45] <[Saint]> It may /not/ be a fraudulent sdcard.
[20:45] <stormbytes> will then run f3
[20:45] <[Saint]> Yours certainly woun't be the first time raspi-config has trashed an sdcard.
[20:46] <stormbytes> i realize that.. i was just saying how absurd it is that fraud exists on this level --- unrelated rant
[20:46] <shiftplusone> ah, that sounded like you found something.
[20:46] <[Saint]> *wouldn't
[20:46] * ijustam (~ijustam@209.43.1.25) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:46] <shiftplusone> raspi-config doesn't really do anything that should trash an sd card.
[20:46] <[Saint]> I flatly refuse to use it now, and dissuade others from doing so.
[20:46] * girafe (~girafe@AGrenoble-651-1-384-47.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:46] <[Saint]> right, /shouldn't/
[20:47] <stormbytes> if all else fails, i might try to flash it one last time and skip raspi-config's partition resize, just to see if that's what it was
[20:47] <[Saint]> past experience however...
[20:47] <shiftplusone> Do you pin the blame to the partition table manipulation or resize2fs?
[20:48] <shiftplusone> I mean, if you use gparted to resize, you're doing exactly the same thing. Maybe the difference is that you're not doing it while it's mounted, but again, resize2fs claims to support that.
[20:48] <[Saint]> For me it borked itself on partition expansion rather repeatably.
[20:48] <[Saint]> I now use gparted to expand all my images, or just plug the commandline directly.
[20:48] <shiftplusone> How is that any different?
[20:49] <[Saint]> rpi-update is another "shouldn't but does" one.
[20:49] <stormbytes> so far disk utilities checks out... on to f3
[20:49] <flexus> its practical to see first sector
[20:49] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: I have no idea, as I said, it shouldn't be.
[20:49] <[Saint]> but reality vs. expactation don't always align.
[20:51] <[Saint]> It could, of course, be one gigantic fluke.
[20:51] * kij__ (kij__@c-76-23-251-139.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] <[Saint]> I've never had an sdcard bork itself when I've run the expansion process, and have when I've let raspi-update do it, a few times, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's a correlation.
[20:52] <[Saint]> I could just be "lucky".
[20:52] <shiftplusone> Aye, but you're making two claims which contradict each other and one must be false. 1) raspi-config borks the sd card 2) typing the same commands manually, doesn't. If the same commands run, the hw doesn't care HOW it's being run....
[20:52] <flexus> i'll give you a note if one of my cards is fake
[20:52] <[Saint]> I'm fairly convinved rpi-update only exists to trash filesystems, though.
[20:52] <[Saint]> *convinced
[20:53] <shiftplusone> [Saint], there are a known issue where that was the case... unfortunately, the solution was to run rpi-update. Has this happened to you when using recent firmware?
[20:53] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:53] <[Saint]> If "recent" means "newer than ~6 months or so", then likely not.
[20:54] <[Saint]> There's only so many times repairing a filesystem is interesting.
[20:54] <shiftplusone> yeah, that sounds like a good timeframe, but I would make it a month or so, to be safe.
[20:54] <[Saint]> aha.
[20:55] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:55] <shiftplusone> I would hope that the raspberrypi-bootloader package has firmware that's recent enough (I don't see why it wouldn't)
[20:55] <[Saint]> I'm _definitely_ on new firmware now. 'cos, Arch. I've just been avoiding rpi-update, but mostly due to the fact that Arch makes it totally needless.
[20:56] <shiftplusone> so rpi-update (and apt-get upgrade, which also borked filesystems) shouldn't be a problem.
[20:56] <shiftplusone> oh yeah, don't use rpi-update on Arch D=, they'll kill you.
[20:56] * [Saint] deals with neither of those services now
[20:56] <shiftplusone> Even on raspbian, we have the nightlies now.
[20:56] <[Saint]> My little hand rolled Arch images have been holding stead for a few hundred days.
[20:57] <flexus> unnecessary too on arch
[20:57] <[Saint]> Holy crap. Raspbian has metapackages for kernel and firmware now?
[20:57] <[Saint]> I missed that...
[20:57] <shiftplusone> It has for a very long time.
[20:57] <shiftplusone> It's a shame the Arch folks have moved away from images. Might mean it will be taken off the downloads page =(
[20:58] <[Saint]> Well. That shows how long I've been avoiding it I guess.
[20:59] <shiftplusone> If it comes to that though, I think I'll put my hand up to maintain the images for the download page.
[20:59] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: haha - snap.
[20:59] <flexus> on arch i went for core/linux-raspberrypi-latest before, after the filesystem crash i stayed on 3.12
[20:59] <[Saint]> I was just going to say how trivial it would be to make an "image" that automates the build process.
[20:59] * Ryitt (3e8eae60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.142.174.96) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[20:59] <flexus> we'll see
[20:59] <shiftplusone> [Saint], I already have the scripts.
[21:00] <[Saint]> I'd rather not push out full images for Arch myself, seems needless, since everything will get updated anyway.
[21:00] <[Saint]> well, almost everything.
[21:00] <[Saint]> build on demand is nicer IMO.
[21:00] * [Saint] too
[21:00] <[Saint]> I just don't have them packaged in a dd'able everything-does-itself-for-you format.
[21:01] <shiftplusone> I'd just make check daily whether their latest md5sum has changed. If it has, download the archive and extract it into the image.... simple enough.
[21:01] <[Saint]> I do have a "point at sdcard and press the fire button" Arch image build script, though.
[21:02] <shiftplusone> (and the script can create the image from scratch or use an existing empty one to speed things up)
[21:02] <[Saint]> Jesus.
[21:02] <shiftplusone> would just need to modify it to extract arch rather than bootstrap raspbian. >.>
[21:02] <[Saint]> sounds like we independantly created almost exactly the same thing.
[21:02] <[Saint]> weird.
[21:03] <flexus> redundant :]
[21:03] <shiftplusone> heh, I think this has been independently created by 1000s of people.
[21:03] <shiftplusone> just for different purposes
[21:03] <[Saint]> Redundant Array of Arch Scripts
[21:03] <stormbytes> hmm weird, i think the card might be bad
[21:03] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, judging by?
[21:03] <stormbytes> https://gist.github.com/stormbytes/ffedfc4e9068f0f0882e
[21:04] <stormbytes> thats the output from f3write
[21:04] <stormbytes> reading now... f3read that is
[21:04] <flexus> i'll really make some arch image with /boot and the rest on usb drive
[21:04] <[Saint]> that's absolutely trivial.
[21:05] <[Saint]> very small change.
[21:05] <[Saint]> I wish more images offerd that ability to be honest.
[21:05] <shiftplusone> wouldn't really be a single ddable image though
[21:05] <[Saint]> Not if you wanted it to be efficient.
[21:06] <[Saint]> It could just copy itself out to the destimation and clean up. but that would mean having to have an sdcard that could accommodate the compressed image in full.
[21:06] <shiftplusone> meaning you can just dd the same thing to both? >_< I know people do that and then modify cmdline.txt, but..... no.
[21:06] * froggy (~froggy@unaffiliated/limpet) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:06] <[Saint]> Kinda...but, not quite.
[21:06] <shiftplusone> ah I see
[21:07] <[Saint]> dd to one, have it do the work, clean up.
[21:07] * froggy (~froggy@unaffiliated/limpet) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:07] <stormbytes> ok well.. card's not a fake and everything checked out
[21:07] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, hurray.... kind of.
[21:07] <[Saint]> yeah.
[21:07] <stormbytes> will try it one last time without raspi-config partition resize
[21:07] <stormbytes> see if that adds to stability
[21:07] <shiftplusone> It would be better if the card was bad....
[21:07] <[Saint]> not really a celebration.
[21:07] <stormbytes> yes it would shiftplusone
[21:07] <[Saint]> Indeed.
[21:08] * jiuweigui (~jiuweigui@unaffiliated/jiuweigui) Quit (Quit: I gotta run. I've got universe to master.)
[21:08] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, well, if you know your power supply is good, you're running the latest raspbian image, it's not a cheap card off ebay and it's not a fancy class 10 card and you're not running software like mysql... it might be worth flagging it with the raspberry pi foundation.
[21:09] <[Saint]> actually now that I think of it, it would be _bloody_ trivial to check for a dotfile in /boot and decide to move the main image off to USB.
[21:10] <[Saint]> I'd really like a user prompt, but, ...nah. Effort.
[21:10] <stormbytes> pwr sup is 2A@5V, card *is* an 'inexpensive' sandisk 4Gb -- nothing fancy I don't think (avg write speed was around 5.4 mb/s)
[21:10] <[Saint]> Asking a user to manually place a file isn't heartbreaking.
[21:10] <[Saint]> And its on a FAT filesystem, so they can access it.
[21:10] * [Saint] ponders
[21:10] <stormbytes> before hitting up the folks at RP i'll give it a short without raspi-config's resizing *and* try another card, just for giggles
[21:10] <stormbytes> ;)
[21:10] <stormbytes> thanks for the tips everyone
[21:11] <shiftplusone> stormbytes, I don't know if anyone will have time to take a look at it any time soon, or if we have the technology to analyse the problem properly, but this is the sort of thing they'd like to get to the bottom of.
[21:11] * [Saint] is well aware of how much of a bastard sd can be when it really, really, really shouldn't be from his Rockbox days
[21:12] <[Saint]> allowable timing that really shouldn't matter, yet does.
[21:12] <[Saint]> fun times.
[21:12] <shiftplusone> heh
[21:19] * NoNMaDDeN (~NoNMaDDeN@wf-171-99-180-238.revip9.asianet.co.th) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:21] * darkavenger is now known as darkavenger_afk
[21:25] * cave (~various@gateway/tor-sasl/cave) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:25] <niston> so if I want syslog to log everything info and above, I do *.info -/var/log/messages ?
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[21:35] <niston> this does not appear to reduce kernel chatter during boot
[21:37] <shiftplusone> on screen or in the log?
[21:37] <niston> goal is to reduce boot time
[21:37] * m1nus (~m1nus@c-76-30-178-81.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:38] <niston> saw a forum post suggesting to reconfigure syslog so less kernel chatter
[21:38] <shiftplusone> I'm somewhat sceptical
[21:39] <[Saint]> That would only reduce _visible_ kernel chatter, unless I'm mistaken.
[21:39] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-49-175.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:39] <[Saint]> It'll all still be happening behind the scenes.
[21:40] <niston> the idea is apparently that writing log entries takes time
[21:40] <niston> are there any other ideas for reducing boot time?
[21:40] <shiftplusone> I'm working on something where every microsecond counts and printk does eat up a lot of time, whether it's displayed or just logged, but it's not going to add up to much of a boot time decrease.
[21:41] <shiftplusone> switch to arch
[21:41] <niston> I tried mono on arch and it was a desaster :)
[21:41] * cave (~various@gateway/tor-sasl/cave) Quit (Quit: bye)
[21:41] <shiftplusone> or use bootlogd to see where the boot time goes
[21:41] <shiftplusone> but I think you'll find that it mostly goes to the essentials.
[21:41] <niston> sounds like a plan!
[21:41] <niston> well im down from 27 seconds to 25 seconds so far
[21:41] <shiftplusone> switching to systemd is an option, but I often see people having trouble with systemd on raspbian.
[21:42] <niston> 20 seconds until link up
[21:42] <niston> did that
[21:42] <niston> also syslogd
[21:42] * cave (~various@gateway/tor-sasl/cave) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:42] <shiftplusone> 25 seconds with systemd? O_o there's certainly room for improvement.
[21:42] <niston> bootlogd you say?
[21:43] * niston digs around
[21:43] <shiftplusone> no
[21:43] <shiftplusone> I am thinking of bootchartd
[21:43] <niston> doesnt that require X?
[21:43] <swiss> bootchart++
[21:43] <shiftplusone> nope
[21:43] * niston just tossed out the X
[21:44] <shiftplusone> How long does the kernel take? If you strip it down to the essentials, you can cut that time down a bit. Gordon claims to boot buildroot-based install in 5 second. The stock kernel takes longer than that.
[21:44] <niston> 5 seconds would be a dream
[21:44] <niston> I'm looking at dmesg
[21:44] <shiftplusone> oh... buildroot... there's an idea. What do you actually need?
[21:44] <shiftplusone> Do you need a full system with the ability to install packages and all that?
[21:45] <shiftplusone> Or is this an embedded thing for your radio majig?
[21:45] <niston> I need ipv4, possibly v6, ntp of course, then USB and I2S sound
[21:45] <niston> yup
[21:45] <niston> radio thing
[21:45] <niston> sshd will be nice, too
[21:45] <shiftplusone> do you care about stuff being on the card, but not used?
[21:46] <niston> not really
[21:46] <shiftplusone> You can hijack the boot process entirely.
[21:47] <shiftplusone> With a custom inittab. Or your own init script.
[21:47] <shiftplusone> that will basically only run what you launch and it's up to you to mount things, bring up the network, start whatever you need.
[21:47] <niston> I've read about some tool to create a custom "distribution", would that be buildroot ?
[21:47] <shiftplusone> yes, that would be buildroot
[21:48] <shiftplusone> I am not sure how much fun you'll have getting it to play ball with the version of mono you want.
[21:48] <niston> mono is 3.2.3
[21:48] <niston> 3.8.0 was only required on windows for mono.data.sqlite
[21:49] <niston> because older ones are broken
[21:49] * kiely is now known as kiely_elsewhere
[21:49] * niston reading up on buildroot
[21:50] <steve_rox> anything interesting goin on?
[21:50] <steve_rox> i read rpi sales are nearing 4 mill
[21:50] * cave is now known as cavebeat
[21:50] <niston> think I should install a linux vm on my desktop...
[21:51] <ShorTie> i believe you only need to mess with buildroot if your gonna distrubute the software, other wize make, make install is good enough for a single system
[21:51] <shiftplusone> niston, the pi is actually a good system to play around with this sort of thing.
[21:51] <niston> ShorTie: well I'd like to create a clean image some day
[21:51] <phire> ShorTie, na, buildroot is good for one off builds too.
[21:52] <phire> actually, it's not really aimed at making a distribution
[21:52] <niston> shiftplusone: won't it take forever and a day to do it on a pi ?
[21:52] <phire> buildroot should be done on your desktop
[21:52] <shiftplusone> niston, if I were you i'd either use buildroot, then if that becomes too much of a headache, use raspbian as a base, but use busybox or a custom init script.
[21:52] <shiftplusone> niston, buildroot builds on the desktop, then you copy what it spits out.
[21:52] <niston> ok so I install a debian vm?
[21:53] * cavebeat is now known as cave
[21:53] * alexwhitman (~alexwhitm@5751f6e6.skybroadband.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:53] <shiftplusone> Running windows only, are ya? D=
[21:53] * Xano (~bart@a92136.upc-a.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Xano)
[21:53] <niston> and freebsd
[21:53] <shiftplusone> Yeah, then you'll probably want a VM for this.
[21:53] <steve_rox> rpi website needs a rss feed
[21:53] <shiftplusone> steve_rox, good thing it has one >_<
[21:53] <phire> VM will be much slower than a native install
[21:54] <steve_rox> if only it was openly visible
[21:54] <niston> debian preferred due to similarity with raspbian? or doesn't matter at all?
[21:54] <shiftplusone> http://www.raspberrypi.org/feed/
[21:54] <niston> phire: Im too lazy to get the other quadcore out of its corner. also I dont have more than 3 screens
[21:54] <phire> you can probally buildroot from freebsd
[21:54] <niston> nah, fbsd is doing... dedicated tasks.
[21:54] <shiftplusone> niston, I use linux mint.
[21:54] <shiftplusone> but debian will work just as well
[21:55] * tdy (~tim@unaffiliated/tdy) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:55] <niston> im downloading the cinnamon thing
[21:55] <[Saint]> uuuuuuuuuggghgh.
[21:55] * [Saint] considers that a swear word
[21:55] <shiftplusone> I think I use mate
[21:55] <steve_rox> thanks for link , i couldent see it anywheres
[21:56] <[Saint]> double uuuuuugh
[21:56] <niston> difference is only the desktop is it?
[21:56] <shiftplusone> yup
[21:56] <shiftplusone> [Saint], what do you consider gnome 3?
[21:56] <[Saint]> I use openbox, and even then, only when I'm _absolutely_ forced into running a GUI. heh.
[21:57] <[Saint]> GUIs just mean I can't cram in as many terminal sessions.
[21:57] <niston> hmm is it sensible to download the 32bit version?
[21:57] <niston> or again dont matter?
[21:57] <shiftplusone> When I care about being light on resources, I go for openbox+tint2+pcmanfm. On my workstation, I don't want to faff about with such things.
[21:58] * ct0 (~ct0@130.68.247.94) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:58] <[Saint]> There's usually about seven or either independant sessions running at a particular time here, mostly realtime monitoring.
[21:58] <[Saint]> *eight (silly autocomplete)
[21:59] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:59] * kiely_elsewhere is now known as kiely
[21:59] <niston> linux mint says its ubuntu compatible, right?
[22:00] <[Saint]> The only machine that boots to a GUI in the house is the virtual workstation Ms. [Saint] uses.
[22:00] <shiftplusone> yes, it's ubuntu without the terrible stuff.
[22:00] <[Saint]> ANd that's...shudder...Ubuntu 14.10
[22:00] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: depending on the viewpoint. Some consider it Ubuntu with /more/ (or alternate) terrible stuff. ;)
[22:01] <[Saint]> I'd settle for "less terrible stuff".
[22:01] <niston> I <3 vmware
[22:01] <niston> <3 <3 <3
[22:01] <shiftplusone> [Saint], whatever it is, it's rock solid for me and the DE has everything I need.
[22:02] <shiftplusone> The only reason I'm not using unity is that I can't customise it the way I need to easily. Mint is the way I like things out of the box, so I don't need to.
[22:02] <[Saint]> I just use Arch w/ cli+screen, I can't mover about anywhere near as fluidly in a GUI
[22:02] <[Saint]> have to keep taking a hand off the keyboard.
[22:03] <shiftplusone> different workflow.
[22:03] <[Saint]> I suspect they're fairly similar.
[22:03] <[Saint]> Different tools.
[22:04] * Hily (~Hilary_Ho@wsip-184-182-182-75.dc.dc.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[22:04] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@unaffiliated/keanu73) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:04] <shiftplusone> I can't get used to tui text editors or irssi. So I use geany and hexchat. Then I'm also using windows on the side, so I'm using the mouse all the time anyway.
[22:04] <[Saint]> I do get yelled at occasionally, though. Ms. [Saint] *hates* my mechanical keyboards.
[22:04] <[Saint]> Especially at the speed I type.
[22:04] <shiftplusone> heh
[22:05] <[Saint]> She uses one of those terrible thin wafer/membrane silent things with no tactile feedback.
[22:05] <[Saint]> uuugh.
[22:06] <shiftplusone> I got a mechanical keyboard, but I don't really see it as being any better.
[22:06] <flexus> some solution is cmu sphinx gg
[22:06] <flexus> against typing
[22:06] <[Saint]> shiftplusone: it really depends on the switches you're using.
[22:06] <[Saint]> its the switches, and combinations thereof, that make the difference.
[22:06] <shiftplusone> I am not too fussed about the 'feel' of the keys. As long as everything is spaced and layed out correctly.
[22:06] <[Saint]> I use MX reds, and MX blacks.
[22:07] <[Saint]> I like Shift,CTrl, Enter and friends to be slightly stiffer.
[22:07] <[Saint]> Typing analysis showed that Enter and Backspace are my most frequently mispresserd keys.
[22:07] <shiftplusone> http://www.razerzone.com/razer-mechanical-switches
[22:08] <[Saint]> I have another board decked out with MX clear/pandas.
[22:08] <shiftplusone> The keyboard had the best reviews by programmers, so I picked it up.
[22:08] * kiely is now known as supersadkiely
[22:08] <[Saint]> I use the clear/pands board for gaming.
[22:08] <[Saint]> And the red/black board for typing.
[22:08] <[Saint]> *panda
[22:09] <shiftplusone> pretty sure I wouldn't notice or care about the difference >_<
[22:09] <[Saint]> (odd hybrid of MX clear and MX white)
[22:09] <[Saint]> I'm sure you'd notice it in double blind testing.
[22:09] <[Saint]> The spring tension, tactile response, and return rate are all wildly different.
[22:09] <shiftplusone> meh
[22:10] * DK-MODE (~Chad_Coop@80.71.26.65) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:10] * DK-MODE (~Chad_Coop@80.71.26.65) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:10] <niston> its installing :>
[22:10] <shiftplusone> What's installing?
[22:10] <niston> linuxmint
[22:10] <shiftplusone> ah
[22:10] <shiftplusone> speaking of gaming.... bbl.
[22:11] <niston> heh.
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[22:43] <niston> ok I did git clone http://git.buildroot.net/git/buildroot.git
[22:43] <niston> but when I try to ./make menuconfig it finds no make
[22:45] <shiftplusone> no ./
[22:45] * hadifarnoud (~hadifarno@151.241.244.152) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:45] <niston> ok.. conf.c:6:20: fatal error: locale.h: No such file or directory
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[22:46] <ShorTie> is there a configure to run ??
[22:47] <shiftplusone> shouldn't be
[22:47] <niston> http://buildroot.uclibc.org/downloads/manual/manual.html#getting-buildroot doesnt say so
[22:47] <shiftplusone> well... find out where locale.h is supposed to come from and why you don't have it
[22:48] <niston> vmware tools also complained about no locale.h, but it was just a warning there
[22:49] <niston> maybe installing build-essential will help
[22:49] <ShorTie> did you define any locals in raspi-config ??
[22:49] <niston> this is not on a pi
[22:49] <niston> this is the linuxmint vm now :)
[22:50] <ShorTie> oh, a vitual machine ??
[22:50] <niston> yeah
[22:50] <niston> for the buildroot
[22:50] <niston> yeah build-essentials was good
[22:50] <niston> it now complains about requiring ncurses
[22:50] <niston> but uhm theres other options I think?
[22:51] <niston> GTK based?
[22:51] <niston> or QtBased that is the question
[22:51] <niston> well neither work :)
[22:53] * Diaoul (~Diaoul@static-5-51-3-145.ftth.abo.bbox.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:54] <shiftplusone> niston, man/woman up. and install the ncurses dev package
[22:54] <niston> trying to locate it
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[22:59] <niston> doing apt-get upgrade
[23:00] * YeahRight (~yeahright@5249B7A3.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:01] <flexus> apt-cache search
[23:04] <ShorTie> normally you just got to put a '-dev' on the end of the name
[23:05] <ShorTie> you need the dev stuff to compile stuff
[23:06] <niston> yeah I didnt now its libncurses so I tried with ncurses-dev
[23:07] * stormbytes (~textual@245.sub-70-197-198.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:07] <niston> so while digging around I thought I'd do a apt-get upgrade
[23:08] <ShorTie> that only helps if it can not find a package because it has been updated
[23:08] <niston> its still running :)
[23:09] * NoNMaDDeN (~NoNMaDDeN@wf-171-99-180-238.revip9.asianet.co.th) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:09] <niston> didn't expect this with a fresh install
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[23:43] <[Saint]> New client box option that I'm testing out in 2 locations is seemingly appreciated - nice.
[23:43] * intothev01d (~intothev0@unaffiliated/intothev01d) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] <[Saint]> I can't do what I /actually/ want to do until there's a Wolfson Audio HAT for the B+ though
[23:45] <[Saint]> I made a very simple Android subsonic remote and smb client
[23:45] * lpax (~lpax@unaffiliated/lpax) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:47] <[Saint]> And I've now given the option of running a subsonic (well, actually supersonic/Mach5) server on the client boxes, using the vastly-superior-to-the-pi's-audio-out Wolfson Audio Card for output.
[23:47] * `Nef is now known as `NefZzz
[23:48] <[Saint]> The two locations I'm testing it out in have fairly tech savvy occupants who don't mind (at least they say they don't) how hideous it looks without a proper case to accommodate it all.
[23:49] <flexus> looks like a nice aproach
[23:50] * cryingkiely is now known as sadkiely
[23:51] <[Saint]> Well worth the cost, but I'm waiting for the B+centric version to come out before I put it into fullscale deployment
[23:51] <[Saint]> (about 3 dozen boxes)
[23:52] <Sonny_Jim> Saw a lot of BBC Bs at the weekend
[23:52] <Sonny_Jim> I did do a bit of:
[23:52] <Sonny_Jim> 10 PRINT "I WISH I WAS AN ARCHIMEDES ";
[23:52] <Sonny_Jim> 20 GOTO !0
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[23:53] <flexus> price is ok too, wanted to take a look @ hifiberry, its designed for A and B though
[23:53] <flexus> not worth a look if you wait for B+ stuff
[23:54] <[Saint]> I've decided its a bit of a bother to support multiple different hardware and software configurations, so everyone's getting a free upgrade to the B,G,N wireless repeater/1TB network attached storage/optional anonymizing AP/{subsonic|mach5|supersonic} server/samba share, print server boxes.
[23:55] * Alina-malina (~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina) Quit (Quit: https://twitter.com/AleenaMaleena)
[23:55] <[Saint]> The pi itself has 128GB of USB flash storage for /root and /home.
[23:55] <flexus> know puppet ? didnt try it, some automation stuff
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[23:55] <flexus> for multiple boxes as i remember
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[23:57] <[Saint]> Over time I've built up my own set of scripts and tools to manage multiple deployments.
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[23:57] <flexus> sure, very flexible and so on
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[23:59] <[Saint]> The look on the guy's face when I purchased 3 dozen 1TB USB external HDDs the other day was fairly priceless.

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.