#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2015-07-30

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * dan2k3k4 (~dan2k3k4@unaffiliated/dan2k3k4) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:01] * shurizzle (~shurizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:04] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:04] * xamindar (~quassel@c-50-150-78-164.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:04] <t3chguy> Well well well
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[0:05] <t3chguy> youtube-dl + omxplayer works perfectly
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[0:22] <iron_manaf> t3chguy: what are you doing with youtube and your raspberry pi or are you just trying to benchmark some stuff?
[0:22] <t3chguy> iron_manaf: trying to be able to watch Youtube without stutter or lag
[0:23] * robh71 (~robh71@r74-193-1-195.cnrocmta01.conrtx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:23] <iron_manaf> are you sure it isn't anything to do with your network and not the pi itself?
[0:23] <t3chguy> well considering it happens with regular 720p MP4's yes
[0:23] <t3chguy> the whole browser freezes up as it struggles Software rendering the video
[0:23] <t3chguy> in omxplayer it works perfectly
[0:24] * hybr1d8 (~cjd@202.92.67.179) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] <t3chguy> in VLC or a web browser, awfully
[0:24] * crakrjak (~merc@unaffiliated/crakrjak) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] <t3chguy> s/regular/local/
[0:24] <iron_manaf> that's weird
[0:27] * Bozza_ (~Bozza@unaffiliated/bozza) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] <t3chguy> iron_manaf: which pi you on, which distro and whats your youtube performance like on what display output?
[0:28] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:29] * chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[0:30] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:30] * Bozza (~Bozza@unaffiliated/bozza) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:34] <iron_manaf> t3chguy: I'm running raspbian on a B+ and the youtube performance is pretty bad, not only because the network in my apartment isn't the fastest but also because I'm running the display through the 3.5tft from adafruit so it is running off the SPI pins on the GPIO header
[0:34] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[0:35] <iron_manaf> but i'm also compiling kivy on the pi right now so that could also contribute to the stuttering youtube performance
[0:35] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:35] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:37] <t3chguy> Lol
[0:37] <t3chguy> Mine is pretty bad on the new quad core pi
[0:38] <t3chguy> Running ubuntu mate
[0:38] * Gathis (~TheGrey@unaffiliated/gathis) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:38] <iron_manaf> And you said you tried running the graphics at a higher MB?
[0:38] <t3chguy> I tripled the vmem to 192
[0:38] * breakingmatter (~breakingm@8.29.138.28) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:38] <iron_manaf> and it didn't do anything to help?
[0:38] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:39] <t3chguy> It made some difference but still only watchable when the browser window is pretty small
[0:39] <t3chguy> Yet in omxplayer it's happy to play it at 1080p lol
[0:40] * Sonny_Jim (~pi@054755d9.skybroadband.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:40] * pcp135_ (~pcp135@ipb21a57b5.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] <iron_manaf> That's probably because omxplayer is optimized to actually use the graphics processing that the pi has and i'm not sure if the default browser on the pi does.
[0:40] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:48] <t3chguy> Yeah I know
[0:48] <t3chguy> Which is good at least it means it can be changed
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[3:57] * mattwj2002 (~mattw@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:57] <mattwj2002> hey guys
[3:57] * ozzzy_ (~ozzzy@unaffiliated/ozzzy) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:57] <mattwj2002> I am messing around with retropie
[3:58] <mattwj2002> does anyone know there is a good way to hook up something like a wireless xbox or playstation controller to a raspberry?
[3:59] * bigmac88 (~bigmac88@pool-173-55-84-50.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[4:36] <Kamilion> mattwj2002: A ps3/ps4 controller can work over bluetooth, but it's a pain to set up
[4:36] * terminal_echo (~terminal_@unaffiliated/terminal-echo/x-8027154) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:37] <mattwj2002> got ya
[4:37] <mattwj2002> thanks Kamilion
[4:38] <Kamilion> i think you have to pair it using the USB cable and a tool
[4:38] * ziggee (~ziggee@cpc13-cove12-2-0-cust228.3-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:39] <Kamilion> i've had it work with one of those cheap $2 "CSR" BT 2.0 EDR adapters
[4:39] <Kamilion> there's also a "wireless microsoft xbox adapter" for wireless 360 controllers, which show up as XINPUT devices.
[4:40] <Kamilion> I've had three or four of them and they always seem to die after a while.
[4:40] * breakingmatter (~breakingm@8.29.138.28) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:41] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/POWER-Mini-Pro-EX-Wired-Controller/dp/B00BEQLKIA <--- this is what I use these days
[4:41] <Kamilion> it's wired, but the cable's more than long enough for me.
[4:42] * oxhak (~OxHaK@unaffiliated/oxhak) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[5:08] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: I appreciate the advice
[5:08] <mattwj2002> I just got a wii controller going on retropie
[5:08] <mattwj2002> :D
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[5:19] <Kamilion> that's a good way to do it
[5:19] * JakeSays (~jake@chat.thatswhatjakesaid.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:19] <Kamilion> oh, that reminds me
[5:19] * iron_manaf (~iron_mana@host-234-216.nyropro.rochester.ny.us.clients.pavlovmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:20] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012R58LG/ <--- these wireless wiichucks are great to hack on
[5:21] <Kamilion> the receiver's i2c and quite easy to attach to the pi's GPIOs
[5:21] * mattwj2002 clicks
[5:22] <Kamilion> https://learn.adafruit.com/nunchuket-kung-fu-pc-video-game-fighting-stick
[5:23] <mattwj2002> interesting Kamilion
[5:23] <mattwj2002> :)
[5:23] <mattwj2002> I like adafruit
[5:23] <Kamilion> https://olimex.wordpress.com/2013/01/11/raspberry-pi-project-interfacing-wii-nunchuk-with-rpi/
[5:24] <mattwj2002> they have some interesting stuff
[5:24] <Kamilion> it's real simplistic though -- a joystick, two buttons, and xyz accel.
[5:24] <Kamilion> but if all you're doing is trying to go through a menu or something, that might be all you need
[5:25] <mattwj2002> i appreciate the help
[5:25] * Chocolate_Chip (~CRL@dusky.horse) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:26] <ldc> buh
[5:26] <Kamilion> sure. Incendtally, you can also hook up the various wii joypads to i2c
[5:26] <ldc> sometimes I think I spend too much
[5:26] <mattwj2002> :O
[5:26] <ldc> on stuff I won't have time to finish :D
[5:26] <mattwj2002> haha
[5:26] <mattwj2002> i hear ya
[5:27] <ldc> bought a bunch of sensors, another rPI
[5:27] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Classic-controller-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B003ANMB6A/
[5:27] <ldc> and a poe injector + splitter to power it outdoors
[5:27] <Kamilion> this one, I think.
[5:27] * Chocolate_Chip (~CRL@dusky.horse) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:27] <Kamilion> or the classic pro
[5:27] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Controller-Nintendo-WiiU-White-Pc/dp/B003YC4D9A/
[5:27] <Kamilion> i don't think they've made a wireless version like the nunchuck though
[5:29] <Kamilion> huh
[5:29] <mattwj2002> I am still thinking ps3 controller
[5:29] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/8Bitdo-Bluetooth-Wireless-Controller-Joystick/dp/B00XU9F85U/
[5:29] <Kamilion> First time I've seen one of these
[5:29] <Kamilion> no reviews either
[5:29] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: i was going to buy that on Friday
[5:29] <mattwj2002> but
[5:30] <mattwj2002> I don't know if i want more buttons or not
[5:30] * Kamilion nods
[5:30] <Kamilion> just keep in mind, PS3 controllers cannot be used wired
[5:30] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: that link you just sent
[5:31] <mattwj2002> might be good because i can always use it for android too
[5:31] <Kamilion> you hook them up via USB to shove the bluetooth host address they should pair to
[5:31] <Kamilion> and that's it
[5:31] <Kamilion> from then on, the USB port is charge only
[5:31] <Kamilion> no HID events are ever pushed over it :<
[5:31] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: wait
[5:32] <Kamilion> but on the up side, there are some android drivers
[5:32] <mattwj2002> you can't hook it up via usb
[5:32] <mattwj2002> ?
[5:32] <Kamilion> the USB port is only used for charging and pairing to a new bluetooth host address
[5:32] * colonia27 (~colonia27@p4FE74214.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[5:33] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: i disagree with you
[5:33] <Kamilion> all buttons/gyro stuff is all over bluetooth
[5:33] <mattwj2002> look at the third image from the bottom on that page
[5:33] <mattwj2002> I am talking about the images on the top
[5:33] <Kamilion> mattwj2002: I've dealt with them for a number of years for the ROS Robot Operating System on Ubuntu, since ~2010ish.
[5:34] * colonia27 (~colonia27@p4FE748C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:34] <Kamilion> I've got a youtube video piloting a robot around with a PS3 controller I could link.
[5:34] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: okay i'll take your word then
[5:34] <mattwj2002> :)
[5:34] <mattwj2002> just telling you what I am seeing on Amazon
[5:34] <Kamilion> if someone's figured out how to make them spit out HID events over USB, that's news to me
[5:35] <Kamilion> and great news at that
[5:35] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: i know they have firmware upgrades all the time
[5:35] <mattwj2002> maybe they added it in newer firmware/
[5:35] <mattwj2002> ?
[5:35] <Kamilion> the ps4 controllers, maybe
[5:35] * rvalles (~rvalles@unaffiliated/rvalles) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[5:35] <Kamilion> never known the PS3 controllers to have ever had a firmware update
[5:35] <Kamilion> they're extremely simple and inexpensive devices internally.
[5:36] <mattwj2002> oh no
[5:36] <mattwj2002> I was talking about that wireless snes style controller
[5:36] <Kamilion> Oh, that amazon link says it works as a USB hid controller.
[5:36] <Kamilion> the SNES pad thing. yes.
[5:37] <mattwj2002> maybe i should just get a couple of wired usb controllers
[5:37] <mattwj2002> it might be cheaper and easier
[5:37] <mattwj2002> :)
[5:37] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[5:37] <Kamilion> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dancingpixelstudios.sixaxiscontroller&hl=en
[5:37] <Kamilion> there we go
[5:37] <Kamilion> there's the android driver as well
[5:37] <Kamilion> for the PS3 pad
[5:38] <Kamilion> it's really useful if you have a OTG adapter, because you can push a new bluetooth address into the controller by typing it in on the phone.
[5:38] <mattwj2002> nice
[5:38] <Kamilion> so you don't need to have the pairing tool on every system
[5:38] <Kamilion> (it's a pain to get working, lol)
[5:39] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: what about a controller similar to the ps3 that doesn't use bluetooth but just a transmit receiver combo
[5:39] <mattwj2002> that might be ideal if the price is right
[5:39] <Kamilion> BT's actually pretty good for this purpouse
[5:39] <Kamilion> it's nice and general and easy to replace when the receiver breaks off in the USB po-- I mean...
[5:39] <mattwj2002> retropie it is a bit of a pain
[5:39] <mattwj2002> :0
[5:39] * Anorion (~Anorion@unaffiliated/saidinunleashed) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:39] <Kamilion> well, the thing is, the controller is doing the connecting
[5:40] <Kamilion> as long as the bluetooth receiver on the PC is working, it doesn't often fail.
[5:40] <Kamilion> it's just getting it set to pair with the right bluetooth controller dongle is the #$%#$%#$
[5:40] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: I was referring to the configuration aspect
[5:40] <Kamilion> so if the lights on the controller go solid, and a player light shows up, it works.
[5:41] <Kamilion> during the robot stuff it was actually more reliable than the battery chargers... *grumble*
[5:41] <Kamilion> the controllers were the least painful, looking back on the experience... lol
[5:42] <Kamilion> they always paired to the right robot
[5:42] <mattwj2002> cool
[5:42] <mattwj2002> :)
[5:42] <Kamilion> so once it's set up, it's reliable
[5:42] <Kamilion> I'm, uhh... A fiddler though.
[5:42] <mattwj2002> Kamilion: i am too
[5:43] <Kamilion> that's why I just use the nice wired xbox pad now
[5:43] <Kamilion> it's just painless
[5:43] <Kamilion> and I have tiny hands
[5:43] <Kamilion> but there's a million and one options, as you've seen, lol
[5:44] <mattwj2002> 360?
[5:44] <Kamilion> yeah.
[5:44] <Kamilion> nothing I play needs anything further than that
[5:45] <Kamilion> two triggers, two shoulder buttons, four face buttons, start and select, two sticks, the dpad in the upper corner.
[5:45] <mattwj2002> yeah
[5:45] <mattwj2002> i think you have the right idea
[5:45] * humbag (~humbag@unaffiliated/humbag) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[5:46] <Kamilion> i don't like the gamecube swap of the right stick and dpad
[5:46] <Kamilion> and the xinput driver's right in the kernel
[5:46] <SyncYourDogmas> Excuse the noob question, but how do you attach stuff to the GPIO pins? Do I have to actually solder them, or can I just wrap rhe wires or something?
[5:46] <Kamilion> and has been for ages
[5:46] <Kamilion> SyncYourDogmas: I like to get rainbow cable from amazon
[5:46] <Kamilion> with individually terminated headers
[5:47] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/2-54mm-Pitch-Rainbow-Ribbon-Jumper/dp/B01072C7QK/
[5:47] <Kamilion> these are kind of short, but get the message across?
[5:48] <SyncYourDogmas> Is that the easiest way?
[5:48] <Kamilion> depends on what you're doing
[5:48] <Kamilion> some people use pi hats
[5:48] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/2-54mm-Pitch-Rainbow-Ribbon-Cable/dp/B010727Z0S/
[5:48] <Kamilion> some use IDC flat connectors that mate with the pins
[5:49] <Kamilion> that's harder to deal with on the breadboard side
[5:49] <Kamilion> I have a header crimp tool too
[5:49] <Kamilion> so I could in theory go and buy the rolls of that rainbow cable
[5:49] <Kamilion> but, uh, I don't have the time to goof with that anymore, lol
[5:50] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/iGuerburn-400-point-Breadboard-T-Cobbler-Extension/dp/B00WJA4V1S/
[5:51] <Kamilion> Lots of little kits like this around.
[5:51] <SyncYourDogmas> But I do need to buy a mit?
[5:51] * GGMethos (methos@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe98:2674) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3-dev)
[5:51] <SyncYourDogmas> Kit*
[5:51] * mattwj2002 (~mattw@wikisource/pdpc.active.mattwj2002) has left #raspberrypi
[5:52] * dj_pi (~dj@c-73-191-212-56.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:52] <SyncYourDogmas> No just tying wires together etc
[5:52] <Kamilion> well, that's just an adapter to bring an IDC 4- pin header cable directly to a breadboard
[5:52] <Kamilion> 40-pin
[5:52] <Kamilion> because of the gap in the middle of the breadboard
[5:53] * Sisco (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[5:53] <Kamilion> the first thing I pointed out, the rainbow cable with the little individual headers...
[5:53] * mentazoom (~admin@unaffiliated/mentazoom) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
[5:53] <Kamilion> you can just peel a certain number of cables off
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[5:54] <Kamilion> like, if you just need five to do 5V, 3.3V, SDA, SCL, and ground.
[5:54] <SyncYourDogmas> This all sounds complicated :/
[5:55] <Kamilion> https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruits-raspberry-pi-lesson-4-gpio-setup/the-gpio-connector
[5:55] <Kamilion> if you only need a few of the GPIOs
[5:56] <Kamilion> like, the two i2c pins or the two serial pins or the three SPI pins
[5:56] <Kamilion> hmm
[5:56] <Kamilion> maybe this will be easier if I just take a picture for you.
[5:57] <SyncYourDogmas> If you like , I dont mind doing my homework
[5:57] * Vile` (~Vile@unaffiliated/vile/x-1886500) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[6:07] <Kamilion> SyncYourDogmas: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6C-UpPea1Oo/VbmhR6EZZII/AAAAAAAAHkY/XkZTo5Uzo5k/w1065-h799-no/20150729_205958.jpg
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[6:12] * export (~export@unaffiliated/exported) Quit (Client Quit)
[6:13] <Kamilion> SyncYourDogmas: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UvqFvOYhCZQ/VbmkSr5sinI/AAAAAAAAHlA/u4sgFsMfjsY/w1065-h799-no/20150729_211249.jpg
[6:14] <Kamilion> This is a serial port hooked up to the 3.3v line, the ground, and the TX and RX gpio pins.
[6:15] <SyncYourDogmas> Ah thanks man
[6:15] <Kamilion> that make sense a bit better?
[6:15] <Kamilion> i just peeled a couple off the ribbon
[6:16] <SyncYourDogmas> So these are just the wires that connect the devices to the pins on the pi?
[6:16] <Kamilion> yeah, anything that has similar pin header to the pi
[6:16] <Kamilion> like this little sparkfun serial adapter
[6:17] <Kamilion> this specific one has a level converter built in.
[6:17] <SyncYourDogmas> I bought some leds a while back that I need to use
[6:17] <Kamilion> so it's important to correctly choose the 3.3v level for the pi's side.
[6:17] * export (~export@unaffiliated/exported) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:17] <SyncYourDogmas> And the python API is stupid easy
[6:17] <Kamilion> on the serial board, it's simply labeled as "VCC"
[6:18] <Kamilion> yeah
[6:18] <Kamilion> for larger LEDs you'll need a current limiting resistor
[6:19] <Kamilion> but an easy thing to do is take some of this ribbon cable, peel off a few, clip off one side of the pin connectors, and solder the cable right to the LEDs
[6:19] <Kamilion> solder a reistor directly to the LED's lead
[6:20] <Kamilion> then solder a wire to the back side of the resistor
[6:20] <Kamilion> then you can just plug it into the pi from the side with the connectors still on it
[6:20] <Kamilion> and play with various GPIOs
[6:20] <SyncYourDogmas> Ooft soldering sounds permanent
[6:20] <Kamilion> if soldering's not your thing, there's also some neat things you can do with crimping leads.
[6:21] <Kamilion> yeah, if the LEDs are supposed to be permanant, but the pi isn't?
[6:21] <Kamilion> that might be your setup
[6:21] <Kamilion> or if you might change the pi out later with a different single board computer
[6:21] <Kamilion> There's also some stuff called wire glue
[6:21] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[6:21] <Kamilion> it's basically carbon mixed with epoxy
[6:22] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Sciplus-Electrically-Conductive-Soldering-Wire/dp/B000Z9H7ZW
[6:22] <Kamilion> I've used it a couple times, but it's not something I'd really recommend.
[6:23] <Kamilion> but if you find the right place to get the rainbow cable from
[6:23] * Sisco (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:23] <Kamilion> it's cheap enough to 'use up' in projects
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[6:25] <SyncYourDogmas> Yeah ill definetly go with the rainbow cable I think
[6:25] <Kamilion> so I'm not afraid to cut it up and use it.
[6:25] <Kamilion> there's all kinds of lengths, and of course, pure grey as well, if that's your thing
[6:26] <Kamilion> also, you'll find this same stuff pre-peeled for $20 in some places
[6:27] <Kamilion> careful you don't get ripped off *chuckles*
[6:28] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Osepp-6-Premium-Jumper-Wires/dp/B00BO7TCES
[6:28] <SyncYourDogmas> Ill buy on amazon so no worries there. Only use I can think for them is as status indicator for my server
[6:28] <SyncYourDogmas> So the usual bandwidth, cpu load, memory use etc
[6:29] <Kamilion> $14.95 for ...
[6:29] <Kamilion> uhh... I'm not even sure how many come in that pack...
[6:29] <Kamilion> it says there's five different colors
[6:29] <Kamilion> but... how many of each? XD
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[6:30] * Syliss (~Home2@c-24-23-6-50.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[6:30] <SyncYourDogmas> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rainbow-Color-Arduino-Jumper-Appliance/dp/B00IOB9IU0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438230583&sr=8-1&keywords=Rainbow+wires+pi
[6:31] <SyncYourDogmas> Would they work with the pi?
[6:31] <Kamilion> yep
[6:31] <SyncYourDogmas> Cool, so wires are wires
[6:31] <Kamilion> oh yeah. Absolutely.
[6:31] <Kamilion> some are gonna be stiffer than others
[6:31] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Wosang-Solderless-Flexible-Breadboard-Jumper/dp/B005TZJ0AM/
[6:32] <Kamilion> sometimes they go fancy on the "male" ones
[6:32] <Kamilion> those are really handy for doing breadboard wiring
[6:32] <Kamilion> male to male
[6:32] <Kamilion> there's also female to male
[6:33] <Kamilion> which will take the pins from the pi and plug into sockets of a breadboard
[6:33] <Kamilion> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9jcHB9tWko
[6:34] <SyncYourDogmas> A breadboard?
[6:34] * breakingmatter (~breakingm@8.29.138.28) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[6:34] <SyncYourDogmas> Im suprisingly ill informed in this area given my background
[6:35] <Kamilion> that youtube video should bring you up to speed very quickly.
[6:35] * noarchy (~noarchy@135-23-195-18.cpe.pppoe.ca) Quit (Quit: noarchy)
[6:37] <SyncYourDogmas> Yeah in fact I think ill start now
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[6:38] <Kamilion> should cover almost every question you've asked other than hooking it up to the pi.
[6:39] <Kamilion> 7 minutes, LEDs, how to make nonpermanant connections, breadboard explanations.
[6:39] <SyncYourDogmas> Nonpermanent connections is a good term
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[6:41] <Kamilion> electrical tape is your best friend next to duct tape and dogs.
[6:42] <Kamilion> and occasionally gaffer tape.
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[7:23] <Berg> blue tack
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[8:22] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@c-71-201-7-76.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:23] * breakingmatter (~breakingm@8.29.138.28) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[8:24] * The_Borg (~chatzilla@pa114-73-41-197.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[8:24] * felixjet (~felixjet@48.Red-88-10-249.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:25] * The_Borg (~chatzilla@pa114-73-41-197.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:33] <gregor3005> hi, there are any changes in rpi2 (raspbian) for network intefaces? i set a static ip as usual in /etc/network/interfaces but after reboot dhcpcd sets the ip from dhcp. when i disable dhcpcd i didn't get a ip. this is the interfaces config: http://paste2.org/MzxZmCEA
[8:33] * woo2 (~woo2@unaffiliated/woo2) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[8:37] <gregor3005> solved it: disable dhcpcd and set a gateway in the interfaces config
[8:40] * bortzmeyer (~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:21e:8cff:fe76:29b6) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:41] * JakeSays (~jake@chat.thatswhatjakesaid.com) Quit (Quit: passes out)
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[8:57] * skylite (~skylite@business-178-48-4-145.business.broadband.hu) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:58] * Tach[Zzz] is now known as Tachyon`
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[10:22] <Davespice> morning folks, just got my copy of The Mag Pi: https://twitter.com/dave_spice/status/626666317354020864
[10:22] <Davespice> first print version in WH Smith today
[10:23] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:27] * bugzc_ (~bugzc@unaffiliated/bugzc) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[10:28] * Berg (~chatzilla@pa114-73-41-197.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[10:28] * The_Borg (~chatzilla@pa114-73-41-197.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:28] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[10:34] * dan2k3k4 (~dan2k3k4@unaffiliated/dan2k3k4) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[10:38] <tjcarter> I do wish they'd QR the links in that magazine for convenience.
[10:39] <tjcarter> You'd think if any magazine would have QRs for its links, it'd be one about a $35 computer that comes as a naked board with twiddly little pins to connect stuff to for education and hobbyists ;)
[10:40] * huza (~My@106.38.100.111) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
[10:41] * tjcarter is playing with a DECtalk on his Pi this morning
[10:42] <tjcarter> An old DECtalk Express from the bottom of my junk box basically
[10:43] <tjcarter> Battery's stone cold dead, and I have no idea where I'd find the weird shaped flat NiCd cells needed to power it up on battery. But it has its original (linear!) 500mA 12v power wart, so I'm running it off that for now.
[10:44] * vexoon (~vexoon@78-21-51-194.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:44] <tjcarter> I'll probably send it off to the MAME folks for archival if they don't already have this exact version, I don't really "need" it.
[10:45] <tjcarter> But I dug up a command set and am making it do its thing.
[10:45] <tjcarter> Maybe I'll have it sing Still Alive or something ;)
[10:46] * AbouEmre1 (~Thunderbi@196.216.8.134) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:47] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@196.216.8.136) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:47] * AbouEmre1 is now known as AbouEmre
[10:49] <Davespice> tjcarter: you using the Pi GPIO uart or an usb to RS232 adapter for that?
[10:50] * AndrevS (~andrevs@2001:982:27e5:1:2e44:fdff:fe65:84ee) Quit (Quit: umount /dev/irc)
[10:50] <tjcarter> FTDI adapter--I don't have a MAX232 or similar handy.
[10:51] <tjcarter> But I did have my RS232 FTDI adapter.
[10:51] <tjcarter> That's a jealously guarded possession now that the FTDI fakes have joined the Prolific fakes. :(
[10:53] <tjcarter> No reason it couldn't be done out of the UART if you had some level conversion though.
[10:54] <tjcarter> I guess you can still get real CP2102 chips, but for how long?
[10:57] * BenGrimm (UPP@cpe-70-119-236-74.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: .��UPP��.)
[10:57] * GrimKriegor (~GrimKrieg@2001:8a0:7547:3201:ee1a:59ff:fe4d:faab) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:57] <Davespice> yeah, you want a MAX 3 232 iirc :)
[10:57] <Davespice> they're about two quid on ebay
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[11:00] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[11:12] * fengling (~fengling@111.198.29.54) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[11:30] <tjcarter> Oh interesting. These DEC MMJs are not really RS232.
[11:31] <tjcarter> They're RS423
[11:32] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:32] <tjcarter> Kind of a hybrid between RS422 and RS232.
[11:32] * SyncYourDogmas (~AndChat54@unaffiliated/syncyourdogmas) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[11:37] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@196.216.8.134) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:38] <tjcarter> Yeah, I think I actually like this serial standard.
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[12:50] * nextime (~nextime@unaffiliated/nextime) Quit (Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.)
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[13:10] * mezzobob (~mezzobob@p549B4B0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:11] <mezzobob> Hi someone using cups around?
[13:13] <shiftplusone> only mugs here
[13:13] * mreznik (mreznik@nat/redhat/x-qxqkbrznecojpyhv) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:31] <gregor3005> hi, sort update to my problem with owncloud yesterday. i figured out that when i disabled nat on that wired zywall i didn't get any problem. (i know why i use normally a rpi as router with iptables)
[13:34] <gregor3005> this is was i did to reproduces the problem with the firewall "while true; do service apache2 restart; sleep 10; done"
[13:35] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[13:35] <gregor3005> in my home network this runs forever, on the network with the zywall the rpi crashed after the between 1 or 3 runs and reboots
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[13:50] <humbag> :o
[13:51] * breakingmatter (~breakingm@8.29.138.28) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[13:59] * NullMoogleCable (~NullMoogl@cpe-45-46-208-46.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[14:15] * ctrlshftn (uid95431@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yvuoaijeocmtimyo) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:15] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[14:16] <gregor3005> what can be the problem when i enable nat on a zywall firewall to the rpi and that rpi crashed for example when i restart apache2. when i disable nat i have no problem with the rpi?
[14:19] * rwb (~Thunderbi@host55.vsac.cust.sover.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:22] * ziggee (~ziggee@cpc13-cove12-2-0-cust228.3-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:23] <gregor3005> update: i disabled nat and the rpi still crashes
[14:25] * knob (~knob@173.243.90.126) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:28] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
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[14:35] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[14:50] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Client Quit)
[14:51] * Voovode (~Alex@owbqbf.static.otenet.gr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:51] * Evilcom (~jetto@ip923409be.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:00] * kushal (kdas@fedora/kushal) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[15:11] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:12] * tjcarter has concluded that he needs to build himself a mechanical hex keypad.
[15:13] * darkbasic (~quassel@host37-245-static.119-2-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:13] <shiftplusone> mechanical hex keypads are never the solution, tjcarter
[15:13] * troulouliou_div2 (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-div2/x-0271439) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:14] <tjcarter> why not? Surely you don't expect me to use octal!
[15:14] * oxhak (~OxHaK@unaffiliated/oxhak) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:14] <thescatman> on the off chance... anyone have experience with the NCase M1?
[15:16] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[15:16] <shiftplusone> nope, nzxt phatom here
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[15:17] <shiftplusone> Don't see the appeal of these tiny boxes
[15:17] <tjcarter> Seems a little big for a Pi ;)
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[15:17] <shiftplusone> Why would you put a pi in a pc case? >_<
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[15:18] <thescatman> heh, naa not for the pi
[15:18] <TheLostAdmin> I was toying with putting a Pi in an old Mac Classic case for the retro feel of the thing. That's one reason.
[15:18] <thescatman> Just bought one, trying to work out compatibility
[15:19] <thescatman> Actually currently working on jamming a pi and usb hub into a nintendo wii
[15:19] <tjcarter> thescatman: hopefully a dead Classic?
[15:19] <TheLostAdmin> You broke your wii?
[15:19] <thescatman> yep
[15:19] <thescatman> broken wii's are pennies in UK
[15:20] <tjcarter> Should be a pretty easy thing to do size-wise
[15:20] <tjcarter> You might even be able to make something happen with a slot-loading DVD drive
[15:20] <thescatman> that's what I'm hoping. It gets a little toasty so the fan's a nice addon.
[15:21] <thescatman> doubt I could get the odd drive to do much
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[15:22] * tjcarter is getting sick of crap input devices in general
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[15:39] <randomdr> hy all
[15:41] <shiftplusone> hi
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[15:51] <altos> Does someone have a fresh installed Raspbian right now? And could send me the installed packages list? I need to make a diff to check which packages I've installed
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[15:53] <shiftplusone> altos: you could look at /var/log/apt/history*
[15:53] <shiftplusone> find the point where you've started installing stuff
[15:54] <altos> shiftplusone: great idea, thanks!
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[15:55] <shiftplusone> np
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[16:28] <niston> will there be an updated mono package?
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[16:28] <shiftplusone> That's a question for debian people, isn't it?
[16:28] <niston> dunno
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[16:29] <niston> the package comes from debian repo?
[16:29] <t3chguy> well if you mean the Raspbian package then either ask #debian or #raspbian
[16:32] <tjcarter> niston: the package does come ultimately from Debian. At some point Raspbian will move to Debian jessie, at which point jessie's version of mono will be part of Raspbian.
[16:32] <niston> ic
[16:32] <shiftplusone> well, there's some confusion in what raspbian is here
[16:32] <shiftplusone> raspbian has supported jessie long ago
[16:33] <shiftplusone> the foundation's image of raspbian, on the other hand, is still on wheezy.
[16:35] <altos> shiftplusone: Any idea where I can also check the changes I've made in files?
[16:36] <shiftplusone> /etc files or what?
[16:36] <altos> Yes
[16:37] <shiftplusone> debsums
[16:37] <shiftplusone> debsums -e -c
[16:37] <shiftplusone> won't tell you the changes, but it will tell you which files have been changed
[16:37] <altos> and /bin?
[16:38] <shiftplusone> if you've made changes in /bin, you're doing it wrong.
[16:38] <t3chguy> xD
[16:38] <altos> no I didnt
[16:38] <altos> just asking
[16:38] <humbag> errm, what's that about the repo?
[16:38] <shiftplusone> debsums can be used for that too
[16:38] <humbag> i saw wheezy is still on the raspberry pi site but jessie is on the repository
[16:39] <shiftplusone> raspbian.org or raspberrypi.org repo?
[16:39] <TheLostAdmin> oh god no! You're going to make me use systemd soon, aren't you?
[16:39] <humbag> oh,
[16:39] <shiftplusone> TheLostAdmin: yeah... and we'll make you like it.
[16:39] <humbag> is it considered testing or should i just upgrade if i'm used to debian?
[16:39] <niston> systemd?
[16:40] <niston> using it on my radio thing
[16:40] <shiftplusone> humbag: the raspberrypi.org jessie repo is not ready.
[16:40] <shiftplusone> the raspbian.org one is
[16:40] <niston> boots much quicker
[16:40] <shiftplusone> systemd is just waaaaaay nice, once you get used to it.
[16:40] <shiftplusone> *nicer
[16:40] * shiftplusone ducks all the things getting thrown at him.
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[16:41] <niston> but that package stuff is confusing me. so libmono-2.0 is mono-complete?
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[16:41] <t3chguy> I prefer upstart to systemD, I guess out of being used to it
[16:41] <humbag> well my sources.list says raspbian.org
[16:42] <shiftplusone> humbag: sources.list.d/*
[16:42] * ThinkingofPython (~Thinkingo@182.239.76.135) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:43] <humbag> oh confusing
[16:43] <humbag> thanks for pointing that out
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[16:43] <shiftplusone> niston: mono-complete drags in libmono...
[16:44] <shiftplusone> niston: apt-cache depends mono-complete
[16:45] <niston> hum https://packages.debian.org/experimental/libmono-2.0-1
[16:46] <shiftplusone> Yup, so knowing debian, you can expect that to hit stable in 10 years or so
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[16:47] <niston> I'd just compile from source
[16:47] <niston> since all this package stuff is very confusing
[16:47] <humbag> oh so python is from raspbian but python-rpi.gpio is from raspberrypi
[16:47] <niston> but compiling is prolly goin to take 10 years or so on the pi
[16:47] <shiftplusone> humbag: indeed... the raspberrypi stuff is stuff the foundation adds on top of stock raspbian.
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[16:49] <NullMoogleCable> is there a test image for a Pi that just stress tests the board to see if it is dammaged or has enough cooling for over clocking?
[16:49] <shiftplusone> cooling? cooling isn't the issue when it comes to overclocking, it's the silicon itself. You just need to check the ring oscillator values
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[16:52] <NullMoogleCable> what about testing to see if the powersupply is strong enough. (think chinese quality test)
[16:53] <shiftplusone> if it's a b+ or a pi 2, keep an eye on the red LED and the screen
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[16:53] <shiftplusone> if you ever see a rainbow square in the top right corner and the led flickers, it's not good enough
[16:53] <shiftplusone> (or the cable you're using is too long and/or thin)
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[16:54] <t3chguy> I had that issue lol
[16:55] <t3chguy> the ChromeCast cable has a drastic voltage drop across it
[16:55] <t3chguy> it managed to make a 5.1V2A supply not good enough lol
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[16:55] <shiftplusone> yup... I think everyone gets caught out by dodgy cables once in a while
[16:55] <NullMoogleCable> trying to debug why my sister's pi is crashing randomly. she teaches game programming and wants to use it to show off classic nes games and not carry around a big nes system
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[17:09] <fluffet> just try a different powersupply that's stronger? :)
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[17:10] <tjcarter> Turn down the overclock?
[17:10] <tjcarter> I backed mine off of 1100 and I know this board's RAM canot overclock basically at all.
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[17:18] <t3chguy> Imma power mine with a switched off Modular ATX 850W Powersupply using the +5SB rail
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[18:26] <testman> Hello. How would one make that, but with desktop instead of video game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRW6O0bSHNw
[18:26] * therainingmonkey (~TRM@host81-132-214-22.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:26] <testman> I am trying to make RPi thin client, but all remote desktop protocols are very weak when it comes to sometihg with frame rate above 5 FPS
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[18:35] <ldc> testman: rdp on a low latency network is not that bad
[18:35] <ldc> I wouldn't game or CAD in it but it works
[18:36] <niston> at least ms rdp doesn't operate on a video stream but on graphics primitives (glyphs in rdp lingo)
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[18:37] <niston> while the nvidia stuff appears to produce a video stream from the rendered 3d output
[18:37] <ldc> must be heavily compressed / incremental
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[18:39] <niston> testman, I once tried to make a thin client from nothing but an USB device server, USB keys and mouse and an USB graphics adapter
[18:39] <niston> it worked fine with a real, physical machine as server
[18:39] <shiftplusone> testman: yes, it seems like you can stream the desktop, but you'll have to google how yourself. The search terms are shield desktop stream
[18:39] <niston> but didn't work out with a virtual machine on a vmware cluster
[18:40] <niston> the video didnt come up
[18:40] <niston> appears the display link driver wants a real graphics card in the host system
[18:40] <ldc> my only experience with vdi is with HP t5530 thin clients
[18:40] <ldc> on a server 2003 RDS .. over vpn
[18:41] <niston> I gave up. if it worked, I my then-employer could have offered cloud workstations
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[18:41] <niston> with a "thin client" that doesn't even need an OS :)
[18:42] <ldc> niston: you could have passed through a video card
[18:42] <ldc> given vt-d
[18:42] <niston> ldc I know
[18:42] <niston> but that beat the purpose
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[18:46] <niston> perhaps one could make a driver for vmware that lets an associated displaylink chip appear as a vmware virtual device
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[18:47] <niston> so the guest OS would just see a regular gfx card device
[18:47] <niston> an be none the wiser and thus fully cooperative
[18:48] <niston> additionally this would allow for guest OS without displaylink driver support
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[18:56] <testman> >The search terms are shield desktop stream
[18:56] <testman> as in Nvidia Shield?
[18:58] <testman> K, googling, will come back here if I don't figure it out
[18:58] <niston> needs an nvidia card though, does it?
[19:00] <testman> I wanted to use Moonlight (Used to be called Limelight), an open source implementation many times, but yes, no GeForce in my rig :(
[19:00] <testman> Also my rig is running Linux
[19:01] <niston> you could try streaming the desktop with something like ffmpeg perhaps?
[19:01] <niston> dunno if that works for 3d, or even X
[19:01] <testman> Yes, I am looking into video streaming as potential solution
[19:01] <niston> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Capture/Desktop
[19:02] <testman> I have absolutely no problem with streaming screen
[19:02] <niston> that and usb forwarding
[19:02] <niston> -> voila: le thin client
[19:02] <testman> I have problem with getting mouse / kb / USB peripherals recognized by host PC
[19:02] <niston> yeah
[19:03] <niston> hence why you need usb "forwarding"
[19:03] <niston> http://usbip.sourceforge.net/
[19:03] <testman> All I know is that USB over IP is existing project, currently about to look into it
[19:03] <niston> theres also some commercial stuff
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[19:04] <testman> nah, let's stay on FOSS
[19:04] <niston> so yeah USB/IP PROJECT the way to go
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[19:05] <niston> what about audio?
[19:05] <niston> wif usb/ip could use a cheap USB dongle
[19:05] <niston> it should appear as a sound card on the host
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[19:07] <testman> I believe that audio is part of video stream
[19:07] <testman> At leastaI didn't try with FFmpeg yet, I tried with VLC
[19:07] <testman> and it did work
[19:08] <niston> didnt work as in frame rate too low?
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[19:10] <niston> nm misread :)
[19:10] <testman> np
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[19:11] <niston> what kinda host are we talking about anyways?
[19:11] <testman> in VLC you can set at which framerate screen is captured. Ofcourse I set it to 60
[19:11] <testman> headless PC, dual core 2,5 GHz Pentium
[19:11] <vok`> Hi, anybody know if I can use this with the Pi?: http://www.ti.com/product/tusb8041
[19:11] <niston> ah plenty o cpu
[19:12] <niston> vok sure why not?
[19:12] <testman> GPIO it to the max :)
[19:13] <niston> vok`: it'll only work usb 2.0 tho
[19:13] <niston> testman: what framerate did vlc achieve?
[19:13] <vok`> niston, oh ok, thanks. That's actually what I thought at first. But then I was wondering about drivers or something.
[19:13] <testman> depends on what codec you select
[19:13] <vok`> niston, but since it's USB, it should just work, right?
[19:13] <niston> vok yup. 3.0 stuff is backwards compatible
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[19:14] <niston> vok`: designing something for the compute module?
[19:14] <niston> testman: I think 25fps would do (for streaming)
[19:15] <niston> it'd be like PAL television :D
[19:15] <testman> yep, I agree
[19:19] <vok`> niston, wow I forgot about that.
[19:19] <vok`> niston, thanks for reminding me. Yeah I guess I am now! Haha.
[19:19] <niston> lol
[19:19] <vok`> I've gotten interested in the Pi again after the release of the new version.
[19:19] <niston> you do PCB design?
[19:20] <vok`> No.
[19:20] <niston> aww.
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[19:20] <vok`> I could probably figure it out, though.
[19:20] <vok`> I was at a hackerspace for awhile.
[19:20] <niston> high speed signals are tricky
[19:20] <vok`> Yeah?
[19:20] <niston> matched impedance routing
[19:20] <niston> or whatever its called
[19:20] <vok`> Sounds interesting.
[19:20] <niston> and signal traces need to be of same length
[19:20] <niston> for D-/D+ pairs
[19:21] <niston> with differential signalling
[19:21] <vok`> I've been meaning to get back into electronics. I think now is the time.
[19:21] <niston> its a good time now yes :)
[19:21] <vok`> Haha!
[19:21] <niston> much more possibilities than back in the 80s
[19:21] <niston> ubiquitous computing
[19:22] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-134-207-33.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:22] <niston> systems becoming a commodity
[19:22] <vok`> niston, I think what I've decided to do is DSP/music stuff.
[19:22] <niston> ya?
[19:22] <vok`> Yeah.
[19:23] <vok`> Right now I'm working on a music visualizer for the Pi.
[19:23] <vok`> But it also incorporates Arduino and RGB LEDs.
[19:23] <niston> visualizer as in FFT spectrum?
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[19:23] <vok`> niston, yeah.
[19:23] <niston> heh
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[19:23] <vok`> I convert it into visuals.
[19:24] <vok`> And light pulses.
[19:24] <niston> psychedelic :)
[19:24] <vok`> Yeah! Haha.
[19:24] <niston> made a net radio a while back
[19:24] <vok`> I also wanna do some realtime sequencing capabilities.
[19:24] <vok`> Nice!
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[19:24] <vok`> I had a station going once.
[19:24] <niston> it has a graphical lcd display
[19:24] <vok`> Frostcast? I think it was.
[19:24] <vok`> Wow.
[19:24] <vok`> That's really cool.
[19:24] <niston> I was meaning to see if I could implement a spectrum analyser
[19:25] <vok`> Did it use the GPIO?
[19:25] <niston> one pin :D
[19:25] <vok`> Wow, you're like a wizard.
[19:25] <niston> lol
[19:25] <niston> here it at least looks pretty sleek: https://niston.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/niston-stream-one/
[19:26] <niston> just recently put it back on the table and did some bug fixing on the software
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[19:27] <niston> I wish I was way more skilled and experienced with electronics, so that I could fabricate a CM print for it (instead of the bulky pi+dac+external connectors+stuff
[19:27] * Apocx (~quassel@65.246.43.225) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:27] <niston> drew a schematic some time ago but I have no chance of turning it into a working print on my own :D
[19:29] <vok`> Wow, that is awesome!
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[19:29] <ring0> niston, well, you could pray for autorouting being perfect after pcb transfer ;)
[19:29] <niston> LOOOL
[19:29] <niston> ring0: haha xD
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[19:31] <vok`> Haha.
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[19:31] <vok`> To the electro-deity?
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[19:32] <vok`> Ambron
[19:32] <niston> ring0: but my difficulties lie deeper than that. for example, I have no experience in industrial stlye part sourcing, I have no idea about SMD in general, etc etc
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[19:33] <ring0> niston, i see. first choosing the appropriate parts is mandatory
[19:33] <niston> yeah. also have to account for the assembly line.
[19:34] <niston> perhaps its better to use two 220 ohm resistors in place of a 440 ohm
[19:34] <vok`> niston, does the compute module include the GPU?
[19:34] <niston> because only one tray used then
[19:34] <niston> in the assembly machine
[19:34] <vok`> The GPU is on the chip right?
[19:34] <niston> vok yes
[19:34] <niston> its the entire SOC
[19:34] <vok`> Ah ok, right.
[19:34] <niston> and an eMMC flash memory
[19:34] <vok`> niston, I've been away for awhile I guess you can tell.
[19:34] <niston> vok doesnt matter, CM is still version 1.0 :7
[19:34] <vok`> I'm getting a TV and a Pi 2 soon.
[19:34] <vok`> Ah, ok.
[19:35] <niston> there should come an updated, pin compatible version
[19:35] <niston> at some point in time, some day
[19:35] <vok`> Ah good, thanks.
[19:35] <vok`> I can wait.
[19:35] <niston> however, rpi 2 still only got usb 2.0
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[19:35] <niston> only system I know of that has usb 3.0 support is new odroid
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[19:36] <niston> heck, even the new pcengine boards still only have usb 2.0 >:(
[19:36] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[19:37] <niston> however with the pcengine boards one can use this: http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/2-Port-Mini-PCI-Express-SuperSpeed-USB-3-Card-Adapter~MPEXUSB3S2
[19:37] <niston> :>
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[19:39] <ring0> the guys from the assemble company will tell you, which mix of parts to choose in order to get it built cheaper. but sure, something one has to account for :)
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[19:40] <niston> ring0: I heard they can also do the impedance matched stuff ie high speed busses
[19:41] <niston> the pcb maker I mean
[19:45] <ring0> yeah, also, there are pcb tools, which do length compensation based on the structure of the layers on the pcb for lvds f.e.
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[19:45] <niston> its all a bit over my head :)
[19:46] <niston> luckily, I have money. but I'm not sure in which direction to throw it yet :P
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[19:48] <ring0> you just need to ask the assembler about the exact dates of the layers: height, material and the tools do the funny looking connection lines for your signals ;)
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[19:49] <ring0> s/dates/data
[19:50] <ring0> http://www.zuken.com/en/products/pcb-design/cadstar/compare/pcb-layout/preditor-hs
[19:51] <ring0> i like the curly look on the second pic
[19:51] <niston> heh. meanders they are called, I believe
[19:51] <ring0> correct
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[19:52] <niston> eagle cant do that I think
[19:53] <ring0> nope. no high speed routing
[19:53] <niston> altium can I'm sure
[19:53] <niston> I hate the eagle UI anyways :/
[19:53] <ring0> probably
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[19:55] <ring0> connecting with a semi autorouter is like doing a puzzle, as shown in the video. love that :D
[19:57] <niston> that software looks impressive
[19:57] <niston> so does the price tag, I imagine
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[20:05] <ring0> if i remember correctly, it was 9k euro for the bundle with hs and no limits regardings count of layers and pins
[20:05] * basti (~basti@p4FC7CAF4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ()
[20:07] <niston> it be less expensive to pay someone to make the pcb I guess
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[20:07] <ring0> for one project sure
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[20:09] <niston> best would be to partner with someone that has it. I could put much needed focus on the sofware side of things then.
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[20:40] <mezzobob> Hi someone using cups around?
[20:41] <shiftplusone> mezzobob: ask for information, not for people.
[20:41] <shiftplusone> people won't commit to help before they know exactly what the problem is
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[20:41] <mezzobob> i use a pi as cups server but i will not print. There are no errors in error_log and Pages a listed in page_log but the printer does nothing i installed the cups wrapper from "bother".
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[20:44] <TheLostAdmin> Has anyone put Windows 10 on a Pi yet? If so, did it have a GUI? If not, what do you do with it?
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[20:44] <at0m> powershell!! lol. just kidding. windows.
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[20:45] <shiftplusone> TheLostAdmin: it's meant to be used like an arduino, but not.
[20:46] * ali1234 (~ajbuxton@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:46] <TheLostAdmin> So ... it's meant to run Linux. Then what is the point of Windows 10?
[20:47] <shiftplusone> what's meant to run linux?
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[20:47] <TheLostAdmin> those small board thigns like arduinos that aren't arduinos.
[20:48] <shiftplusone> the point of windows 10 is that the people in that ecosystem have options too.
[20:48] <TheLostAdmin> I have a GUI on my Pi with Raspbian.
[20:49] <t3chguy> TheLostAdmin: the Windows 10 for Pi edition hasn't been released yet
[20:49] <t3chguy> since it won't be full Win 10
[20:49] <t3chguy> it'll be a special one for weaker devices
[20:49] <shiftplusone> t3chguy: is hasn't? what?
[20:50] <shiftplusone> seems fairly released to me http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm
[20:50] <t3chguy> hmm, maybe Windows 10 IoT has been released
[20:50] <t3chguy> its only the Core Platform though
[20:50] <t3chguy> still lots of the fundamentals for development missing
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[20:51] <TheLostAdmin> I was hoping for something along the lines of Windows Phone (or their tablet) interface.
[20:51] <shiftplusone> TheLostAdmin: nope, that's not what it's for.
[20:51] <TheLostAdmin> okay
[20:51] <shiftplusone> You can check the sample projects here http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/StartCoding.htm
[20:52] <shiftplusone> https://microsoft.hackster.io/en-US
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[20:54] <Roonix> What's Arch like on Raspberry Pi? Anyone here using it?
[20:54] <shiftplusone> Roonix: same as it is on the desktop
[20:55] <shiftplusone> (with the obvious differences)
[20:56] <Roonix> is performance good on Pi 1? Can you get all the same stuff from the repos, i.e gnome desktop etc?
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[20:57] <shiftplusone> Not sure that running gnome desktop would make sense
[20:57] <at0m> Roonix: good performance on a single core at 700MHz?
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[20:58] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: Have you seen my ramblings on that subject? :)
[20:58] <shiftplusone> tjcarter: which subject?
[20:58] <Roonix> i mean you know, workable not snail pace :D as good as Raspbian say
[20:58] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: Desktop Linux distribution performance on the Pi.
[20:58] <tjcarter> Roonix: Gnome will run like crap on the Pi.
[20:59] <shiftplusone> tjcarter: nope
[20:59] <tjcarter> LXDE is kind of passable on the Pi 2.
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[20:59] <shiftplusone> yeah, I was just going to say, lxde and xfce work alright
[20:59] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: Basically that performance even on the Pi 2 is never going to be stellar.
[20:59] <Roonix> yeah i just used gnome as an example im actually wanting to try a tiling WM like Awesome or i3
[20:59] <tjcarter> not with a desktop Linux distribution.
[20:59] <shiftplusone> Roonix: give it a go and see
[21:00] <Roonix> I will be later :D
[21:00] <tjcarter> It's a mobile-class SBC, and it needs to be running a mobile-class environment.
[21:00] <tjcarter> I'd argue LXDE is too heavy given that.
[21:00] <Roonix> how come the Arch SD image isnt on the RPi website no more or included in NOOBS, i remember it used to be
[21:00] <shiftplusone> Roonix: the raspberry pi foundation used raspbian for everything and when we tweak things, that's where it ends up. Whether or not other distros grab any of those changes or informt heir users of what those changes are, is up to them. More often than not, they don't.
[21:01] * SpeccyMan (~nick@94.197.120.57.threembb.co.uk) has left #raspberrypi
[21:01] <shiftplusone> Roonix: get arch from the archlinuxarm website, not the raspberrypi.org website
[21:01] <Roonix> I know just asking as it used to be on and they have the others on there like ubuntu etc
[21:01] <tjcarter> Yeah, it gives us lots of apps, but the fact is that most of those apps aren't terribly good on the Pi anyway. The apps that are good on the Pi don't really need LXDE except by default.
[21:02] <shiftplusone> Roonix: somewhat of a falling out with the arch guys
[21:02] <Roonix> ahh ok
[21:02] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: I followed that with some thoughts of where to go with it, development-wise.
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[21:03] <tjcarter> The side-effect of it all would be a system that's as close to instant-on as NOOBS is.
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[21:05] <shiftplusone> tjcarter: I agree with you to a point. I was hoping the pi would be used to write cool demos like in the c64 days and people wouldn't be using Xorg at all.
[21:06] <shiftplusone> there are all kinds of projects that kind of run on the pi like sailfish os, wayland, fancy qt5 stuff and so on, which all run smoothly
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[21:06] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: On that I agree. Wayland, not wayland, I don't care. It's kind of time to start using that GL-capable framebuffer.
[21:07] <shiftplusone> but that's not quite enough, until there's anything you can do with it other than drag some windows around and watch them wobble or something.
[21:07] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: The problem for the C64-style demos is that those demos tend to need to run close to the metal and Linux makes that hard.
[21:07] <tjcarter> Well there is
[21:07] <tjcarter> but not in flippin' wheezy ;)
[21:07] <shiftplusone> psh, the 3d core is open... poke around all you want, with linux or without.
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[21:08] <shiftplusone> and of course bare metal is always an option
[21:08] <shiftplusone> even on vc4, not just the ARM
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[21:09] <tjcarter> Bare metal would be more of an option if you didn't have to dig through everything to figure out how any of it works.
[21:09] <shiftplusone> the peripherals manual is fairly easy to follow to get the basic functionality going. And there are plenty of examples to go on now.
[21:10] <tjcarter> The C64 had manuals for the documented everything. There's not really much of that for the Pi. A github account is as close to developer documentation as you can find.
[21:10] <shiftplusone> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5n9IxSQH1M
[21:10] <shiftplusone> https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/blob/master/hardware/raspberrypi/bcm2835/BCM2835-ARM-Peripherals.pdf
[21:11] <cybr1d> pifox!?!
[21:11] <shiftplusone> and that's done by first year students
[21:11] <cybr1d> i am intrigued
[21:11] <shiftplusone> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeHtktKtGYQ
[21:11] <shiftplusone> there's also a chess example
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[21:11] <shiftplusone> I believe there's a bare metal c64 emulator around
[21:12] <shiftplusone> So I think if someone wants to use the pi as a platform to learn the gritty stuff, there's a lot that can be done in a fun way.
[21:13] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: I note that sofar you've posted links to three things the Pi 2 is exceptionally sluggish to be able to open.
[21:13] <tjcarter> YouTube videos and PDFs
[21:13] <niston> shiftplusone: http://www.commodorepi.co.nr/ :)
[21:13] <shiftplusone> that's the one
[21:13] <tjcarter> niston: Have you seen Apple 2 Pi? :D
[21:14] <shiftplusone> tjcarter: no argument there... I can't defend the browsing experience on the pi
[21:14] <tjcarter> I might have to play with that one.
[21:14] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: and that's one of the things I would like to see change--but we need a mobile browser on the Pi to accomplish it.
[21:14] <tjcarter> one with modern standards pls.
[21:15] * shiftplusone gives tjcarter a bucket full of compilers
[21:15] <shiftplusone> off ya go then =P
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[21:18] <tjcarter> shiftplusone: I'm honestly not sure what to target. wheezy's libs are too old to compile modern software, and the packages wouldn't work on jessie if they did. I've tried a few backports with mixed success. But really it's time to target jessie. But jessie seems not to be actively developed yet.
[21:18] <shiftplusone> what do you mean when you say that jessie is not actively developed?
[21:19] <tjcarter> I mean that the basic tools that make it not just Debian don't appear to have been changed at all, and they don't work right.
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[21:19] <shiftplusone> O_o not sure I follow
[21:19] <Kitt3n> tjcarter, so go fix them then
[21:20] <shiftplusone> the open source answer to all complaints =P
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[21:24] <Kitt3n> shiftplusone, nah, not really. :P just whining people's complaints :P
[21:25] <Kitt3n> especially the ones who go "buu huu, this doesn't work for me!" and no one else has the problem, nor know what the problem actually is. :P
[21:25] <shiftplusone> didn't come across as whining to me, but I certainly don't understand what the problem with jessie is
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[21:29] <shiftplusone> aand I'm off. Take care.
[21:30] <niston> o/
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[21:42] <tjcarter> Kitt3n: I don't know what the problem actually is because I don't understand systemd and how Debian's stuff doesn't work with it right.
[21:43] <Kitt3n> maybe you should instead of saying "it doesn't work", actually name the issue, oh and learn "how systemd works." lol.
[21:43] <tjcarter> I do know that somehow some part of freedesktop's dbus crap made it so my system could not shut down or start up, broke init, and corrupted my filesystem in the hard shutdown resulting in me declaring it not yet fit to run.
[21:44] <tjcarter> prior to that I had actually been working on fixing raspi-config
[21:44] <tjcarter> But when I lost my work and was told "you shouldn't be running that yet", I didn't bother to recreate it.
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[21:45] <tjcarter> It's easy to take a crap on anyone who has an issue on one hand, but when they meet hostility trying to fix the issue themselves, it kinda reflects badly.
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[21:50] <Kitt3n> umm, pretty sure you can just do a normal wheezy install
[21:51] <Kitt3n> dist upgrade to jessie, and be back on track, lol.
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[22:08] <ali1234> shiftplusone: seriously tho we need a jessie image even if it doesn't have all the partner software and isn't official
[22:09] <ali1234> dist-upgrading from wheezy isn't a particularly good solution since it's not reproducible
[22:09] <ali1234> and debootstrap won't give you all the raspberry-pi specific tools by default - unless it does
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[22:15] <Kitt3n> ali1234, if you take 2 Pis, same software, and dist upgrade, you get the SAME dist upgraded software, no?
[22:15] <tjcarter> ali1234: upgrading from wheezy on a Pi 2 takes all night. On a Pi it takes ... more than that. :)
[22:15] * BilbyMac (~Bilby@cpe-174-101-47-55.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] <tjcarter> I would suggest doing it from a minimal image if you're gonna do it.
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[22:16] <tjcarter> ali1234: (ask me how I know.)
[22:19] <H__> Kitt3n: I would hope so ! (so yes :)
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[22:22] <t3chguy> How can I make my Pi switch off my monitor's backlight when the screen is completely blank (same as Windows behaviour)
[22:22] <parityDrive> Anyone know if there is a security camera kit?
[22:23] <H__> parityDrive: what exactly do you mean ? / compared to regular pi camera ?
[22:23] <BilbyMac> t3chguy are you talking about when the computer puts the monitor in sleep mode? that should be part of the power management system
[22:23] <parityDrive> I meant with everything, camera, sensors etc.
[22:23] <t3chguy> Yeah BilbyMac
[22:23] <swiss> parityDrive: what's the advantage of using your pi for a security camera setup
[22:24] <t3chguy> I have it set in Mate but it doesn't get acted upon
[22:24] <swiss> answer that, then you'll know what you're looking
[22:24] <swiss> for
[22:24] <parityDrive> Its tiny and roughly costs $120 for everything.
[22:24] <parityDrive> vs $600+
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[22:24] <swiss> you can buy a decent wireless security camera for $80
[22:24] <BilbyMac> t3chguy hmm… are you using straight HDMI or using an adapter to VGA or something?
[22:24] <swiss> with foscam
[22:24] <H__> parityDrive: that should be easy to build, even without an infrared motion sensor. you can use the 'motion' program to detect movement and store its videos
[22:24] <t3chguy> BilbyMac: straight HDMI to a 1080p monitor
[22:25] <parityDrive> ya I was just seeing if there was a kit.
[22:25] <parityDrive> pi + camera + etc
[22:25] <swiss> parityDrive: i'm not saying it's a bad idea - i'm just trying to help you narrow down what you're looking for outside of a normal security camera solution
[22:25] <t3chguy> "Put display to sleep when inactive for: `10 minutes`" half an hour later still the darn backlight
[22:25] <parityDrive> Oh swiss.
[22:25] <swiss> because pi + camera + setup > $80 probably
[22:25] <parityDrive> I may add door contacts
[22:25] <H__> parityDrive: and driving an infrared frim the gpio is also rather trivial. I'm working with a very sensitive infrared sensor at the moment, total overkill for what you need
[22:26] <BilbyMac> t3chguy hmm… i’m not sure on that. maybe something is waking the display periodically?
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[22:26] <swiss> honestly, you might prefer looking into using a foscam storing to the pi, and then having additional triggers to have the pi control the foscam
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[22:26] <t3chguy> Nothing comes on screen
[22:26] <t3chguy> I've been peeking every few minutes
[22:26] <swiss> i don't know if you can get a 960p camera for the pi that does night vision and pan/tilt control for less than $80
[22:26] <t3chguy> it seems that after 10 minutes the screensaver gets stopped
[22:26] <parityDrive> don't need 960p
[22:26] <t3chguy> and it just goes blank but with backlight
[22:27] <parityDrive> 720p is more than enough.
[22:27] <BilbyMac> parityDrive i’ve seen several good builds in that way, but unless you need xyz option that’s not on a cheap IP camera it’s not worth it really. the #1 feature of a security camera should be reliability and you are going to struggle with that on a pi
[22:27] <BilbyMac> if you want osmething to mess around with go for it though :)
[22:27] <parityDrive> I've read motionPi works great
[22:27] <parityDrive> at around 2-4fps
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[22:28] <Kamilion> parityDrive: Here are my notes when I tried to go through solving that project: http://pastebin.com/z2tjqFTU
[22:28] <BilbyMac> t3chguy hmm…. it sounds like something is missing in the turn-off signal
[22:28] <parityDrive> is that for pi Kamilion?
[22:28] <t3chguy> BilbyMac: any ideas what I can do?
[22:28] <Kamilion> yes, original pi, parityDrive
[22:29] <swiss> parityDrive: i mean, if you're looking for cost effectiveness, prebuilt security cams are usually the way to go
[22:29] <Kamilion> parityDrive: price breakdowns and everything
[22:29] <parityDrive> Using it with a Pi B+
[22:29] <BilbyMac> I’m doing some digging for ya t3chguy
[22:29] <parityDrive> Only need 1 right now
[22:29] <t3chguy> thanks a lot BilbyMac
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[22:30] <BilbyMac> Check this out yet?
[22:30] <BilbyMac> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/52263/how-can-i-put-my-hdmi-display-into-and-out-of-power-save-mode
[22:31] <BilbyMac> type ‘xset q’ into the command line and see if DPMS is enabled. if not , type xset +dpms and see if that resolves it
[22:31] <swiss> anyone else here do ambilight stuff with the pi?
[22:31] <Kamilion> parityDrive: that's as close as I can come to 'kit' -- almost all the purchases were made from the same vendor via ebay.
[22:31] <Kamilion> parityDrive: so if 'arriving in the same box' is all you need, that might cover it.
[22:31] <parityDrive> Hold on Kamilion, looking for the IR camera i saw on amazon
[22:31] <t3chguy> BilbyMac: "Server does not have the DPMS Extension"
[22:32] <BilbyMac> mhmmmm
[22:32] <BilbyMac> what distro are you using?
[22:32] <t3chguy> Ubuntu Mate
[22:32] <t3chguy> from the RPi downloads page
[22:32] <Kamilion> parityDrive: http://www.uctronics.com/raspberry-pi-noir-camera-board-cs-mount-lens-fully-compatible-with-official-module-p-1902.html
[22:32] <parityDrive> http://www.amazon.com/Waveshare-Raspberry-Camera-Vision-Raspberry-pi/dp/B00N9YWLHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1438288337&sr=8-2&keywords=raspberry+pi+IR+camera
[22:32] <Kamilion> this is the one you'll find everywhere.
[22:32] <parityDrive> how is this?
[22:32] <Kamilion> same one
[22:32] * bigmac88 (~bigmac88@rrcs-76-79-253-39.west.biz.rr.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:32] <Kamilion> although that comes with the illuminators, but not the lensmount kit
[22:33] <BilbyMac> For some reaons i haven’t eard of ubuntu mate >_>
[22:33] <Kamilion> but that's the "noIR" board
[22:33] <t3chguy> BilbyMac: its just Ubuntu using the Mate Desktop Environment
[22:33] <parityDrive> link didn't work
[22:33] <Kamilion> sorry, looking for the proper one
[22:33] <t3chguy> BilbyMac: https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/487
[22:33] <parityDrive> its ok Kamilion
[22:34] * ozzzy__ is now known as ozzzy
[22:34] <Kamilion> parityDrive: the big issue is the CS mount lens adapter
[22:34] <BilbyMac> *sad trombone*
[22:34] <Kamilion> that's what you need to attach most standard security camera lenses to it
[22:34] <BilbyMac> that’ s a year and a half old though :|
[22:35] <t3chguy> :/
[22:35] <Kamilion> parityDrive: http://www.uctronics.com/raspberry-pi-noir-camera-board-w-cs-mount-lens-compatible-with-official-module.html
[22:35] <Kamilion> http://www.uctronics.com/night-vision-infrared-ir-led-board-for-noir-rapsberry-pi-camera-module-p-1919l.html
[22:35] * damianw (~textual@c-68-61-255-26.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:35] <Kamilion> and the illuminator board that fits the lensmount
[22:35] <parityDrive> That IR?
[22:35] <Kamilion> yes.
[22:35] <parityDrive> hmm
[22:35] <Kamilion> same board.
[22:35] <Kamilion> different illuminator (newer)
[22:35] <Kamilion> same source company
[22:35] <parityDrive> comes with illuminator?
[22:36] <BilbyMac> t3chguy I wonder if you could send a CEC-over-HDMI command and turn the monitor off O_O
[22:36] <Kamilion> no, same company though, they can be ordered on the same invoice
[22:36] <parityDrive> k
[22:36] <parityDrive> Thank you Kamilion
[22:36] <t3chguy> BilbyMac: I doubt the monitor supports CEC
[22:36] <Kamilion> parityDrive: are you in california, perhaps?
[22:36] <parityDrive> Just want something to monitor at night
[22:36] <parityDrive> no Toronto
[22:36] <t3chguy> tvservice -p and -o work though
[22:36] <Kamilion> there's a place called Central Computers here that carries a lot of this stuff in store
[22:36] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:36] <Kamilion> I ended up buying it there instead of ordering it online.
[22:37] <BilbyMac> That’s a weird bug
[22:37] <Kamilion> but as far as I can tell, UCTronics was the origin of most of these black colored "noir" pi cameras
[22:37] * pklaus (~pklaus@p4FD6F2CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:37] <Kamilion> i've seen them resold by lots of sellers
[22:37] <Kamilion> but if you want support? buy from uctronics :)
[22:38] <parityDrive> brb
[22:38] <Kamilion> the arducam.com guy works there
[22:38] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[22:38] * Encrypt (~Chuck-nor@AMontsouris-553-1-46-33.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:38] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:38] <Kamilion> he spent about an hour on skype with me going over my list of stuff
[22:39] <t3chguy> gonna try load X11 extmod module
[22:39] <Kamilion> the other stuff in there is mostly for dealing with long distance power delivery to ~6 cameras
[22:39] * jjido (~jjido@2.125.175.245) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:39] <Kamilion> http://www.dxsoul.com/product/usb-powered-dc-6-24v-to-dc-5v-car-voltage-step-down-dc-converter-module-black-red-901220701
[22:40] <Kamilion> These are the best modules I've found to power a Pi and some accessories
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[22:40] <Encrypt> Kamilion, Use Tox :]
[22:40] <Kamilion> (like the IR illuminators)
[22:40] <Kamilion> Encrypt: i do use utox, why?
[22:40] <Encrypt> Ah
[22:40] <Encrypt> You were talking about Skype :p
[22:40] <Kamilion> yeah, the guy had a skype account. so?
[22:40] <Kamilion> I didn't wanna go get QQ messanger
[22:41] <Kamilion> I don't read chinese.
[22:41] <Kamilion> it's not like I can just whack you with a copy of mumble and demand you voice chat with me, right? ;)
[22:42] * shurizzle (~shurizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:42] <Encrypt> :p
[22:43] * NullMoogleCable (~NullMoogl@cpe-45-46-208-46.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:43] <ali1234> Kitt3n: if i take a pi and dist-upgrade to jessie, find a bug, report it, and then someone else tries to reproduce it a week later, they absolutely will not get the same software
[22:43] * NullMoogleCable (~NullMoogl@cpe-45-46-208-46.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:43] <Kamilion> Encrypt: my tox id is BC67DD7FF7EEF32BF5A0007589EB186DDEF22A67341A82ABBDB4E625D088AC5B195918886539 in case you were wondering.
[22:43] <Encrypt> Ok ok :p
[22:43] <Kamilion> ali1234: sounds accurate.
[22:44] <ali1234> in fact it would be almost impossible to exactly reproduce what i got, since it will be whatever is the newest packages at the exact time i upgraded
[22:44] <ali1234> not to mention the fact it takes forever
[22:44] <BilbyMac> Man, I had my ICQ number memorized for the longest time
[22:44] <ali1234> which means nobody is going to even want to try to reproduce any bugs i find
[22:44] <Kamilion> BilbyMac: 19983195
[22:44] <BilbyMac> 86593015
[22:44] <Kamilion> *ahem*
[22:45] <BilbyMac> damn, 19? thank you for your service in WWI
[22:45] <Kamilion> ali1234: depends on what the bugs are.
[22:45] <Kamilion> BilbyMac: y/w
[22:45] <Kamilion> long live OSCAR
[22:45] <Kamilion> although it seems IRC has managed to survive OSCAR's untimely death.
[22:46] * shurizzle (~shurizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[22:47] <BilbyMac> oddly i was on ICQ for years before i really got on IRC
[22:47] <BilbyMac> though i used USENET back in the day
[22:47] <Kamilion> I was on compuserv. Octal-land!
[22:48] <Kamilion> I still know far too many DEC quirks from that time
[22:49] <Kamilion> wish I had a usenet post to point at from the early days when gopher and FTP still ruled the internet.
[22:49] <BilbyMac> hah
[22:49] <ctrlshftn> DEC? We learn about that in class today lol
[22:50] <ctrlshftn> learnt*
[22:51] <Kamilion> wuf, nuthing like picking up a DEC 30MB disk pack and loading it in the washingmachine (drive)
[22:51] <Kamilion> http://www.tpsoft.com/museum_images/CDC%20Hard%20Disk%20Pack%202.JPG This monster used to be how large amounts of data were shared, long ago.
[22:52] <ctrlshftn> Damn you ppl are old
[22:52] <Kamilion> I'm 32 :<
[22:52] <ctrlshftn> im 19 c:
[22:52] <Kamilion> I'm not normally supposed to know all this for my age, I suppose.
[22:52] <Kamilion> I just grew up in the middle of silicon valley.
[22:53] <Kamilion> http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/rp04.jpg
[22:53] <Kamilion> where occasionally you'd find something like this by the side of the road in the early 90s
[22:53] <Encrypt> <Kamilion> I just grew up in the middle of silicon valley. // Lucky you... :}
[22:54] <Kamilion> I wouldn't exactly call it lucky; but I'll take it anyway.
[22:54] <Kamilion> I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.
[22:54] * bortzmeyer (~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:21e:8cff:fe76:29b6) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:55] <Kamilion> my dad used to make transparent slides for HP training courses
[22:55] <Kamilion> so i got to play with a lot of HP gear between the hours of 3PM and 6PM.
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[22:56] * Keanu73_ is now known as Keanu73
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[22:59] <BilbyMac> the first time i was on the internet proper was through a local ISP using Kermit. if i remember right you only stayed connected for 30 minutes so someone else got a chance on the modem
[23:00] <Kamilion> I ended up having a lot of ways... from local BBS doors to a local night club that offered dial in SLIP internet access for free. Much later I got a PPP connection (and later set up PPP Multilink)
[23:02] <Kamilion> my dad had a fax line that was only used maybe twice a day during buisness hours... as long as I was making local-calls, I could dial into anywhere in a ~15 mile radius.
[23:03] * JethroTroll (~BenOrigin@cpc70137-lutn12-2-0-cust564.9-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:03] <Kamilion> at one point I had this little toshiba 386 with a built in 28.8 modem; and I had patched into the phone line socket the payphone at the public library was connected to.
[23:04] <BilbyMac> nice. we had BBS connections my dad used with the computer he brought home for work; dialing into stanford and MIT. it was awesome until we got yelled at about the phone bill lol
[23:04] * numberMumbler (~numberMum@unaffiliated/numbermumbler) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:05] <Kamilion> yeah, my 'yelled at' was buying a bunch of games from compuserve (which ended up charging about $600 to my dad's credit card.)
[23:05] * Vile` (~Vile@unaffiliated/vile/x-1886500) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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[23:05] <Kamilion> On the up side, I had checkmarked the 'yes, send me floppy backups' option, so a few weeks later I get this huge box full of ID Software floppies
[23:05] * GerhardSchr (~GerhardSc@unaffiliated/gerhardschr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:05] <Kamilion> Doom, Doom2, commander keen...
[23:06] * Particularized (~me@unaffiliated/particularized) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:06] <BilbyMac> oh man, i played so much commander keen
[23:06] * numberMumbler (~numberMum@unaffiliated/numbermumbler) has left #raspberrypi
[23:06] <BilbyMac> did you ever have Kid Pix?
[23:06] <Kamilion> someone rewrote the engine as FOSS, can load the original keen tilesets and play on your pi natively now
[23:06] <Kamilion> yep
[23:06] <Kamilion> dat spraycan.
[23:06] <BilbyMac> i can remember buying that at the mall… came with both 5.25 and 3.5 disks
[23:06] <BilbyMac> ikr
[23:07] <BilbyMac> OG sprays
[23:07] <Kamilion> haha, the few times I ordered software from Scholastic
[23:07] <Kamilion> i think I got The Island of Doctor Brain
[23:07] <ozzzy> my kids had that
[23:07] <Kamilion> and some of the math blasters series
[23:07] <Kamilion> what's funny -- I never went to middle school or high school -- the only reason I know algebra is math blasters and computer programming with variables.
[23:07] * lord4163 (~lord4163@78-68-207-39-no226.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:07] <BilbyMac> math blaster was good
[23:08] <Kamilion> I really wish there were more games like that. Frog Fractions just isn't the same.
[23:08] <BilbyMac> I have learned more about math as an adult than i did in school. except for geometry, i learned that in HS and use it all the darned time
[23:09] * Vile` (~Vile@unaffiliated/vile/x-1886500) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:09] <Kamilion> really it just comes down to enjoying computing
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[23:11] <Kamilion> I can honestly say I've spent the last twenty years sitting in front of CRTs and LCDs and regretting very little of it.
[23:11] * emulator_ (~emulator_@ip68-231-76-73.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:11] <Kamilion> Hopefully I inspire others to have fun with it too.
[23:11] <Kamilion> and it's not "Oh, that blowhard's talking again"... ;)
[23:12] <CoJaBo> Fixed a printer and it didn't turn into a nine hour Epic. #hashtagwinning
[23:12] <t3chguy> Argh, BilbyMac still can't get it working :(
[23:12] * Noldorin (~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:13] * robh71 (~robh71@r74-193-1-195.cnrocmta01.conrtx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:14] <swiss> t3chguy: trying to control hdmi monitor stuff?
[23:14] <swiss> should just be some x settings
[23:15] <t3chguy> Well, trying to make my monitor go off when the pi "puts it to sleep"
[23:15] * JethroTroll is now known as GenteelBen
[23:15] <t3chguy> it just blanks with the backlight off
[23:15] <swiss> sounds about right for monitors
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[23:17] * robh71 (~robh71@r74-193-1-195.cnrocmta01.conrtx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:17] <t3chguy> compared to Windows, where if the monitor is put into Sleep mode, it disables its backlight
[23:17] <t3chguy> actually, most linux systems
[23:17] <t3chguy> just not this damn Pi
[23:18] <CoJaBo> You people and you'r fancy energy-shaving monitors...
[23:19] * brethil (~brethil@2.236.134.159) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:21] * GenteelBen (~BenOrigin@cpc70137-lutn12-2-0-cust564.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[23:21] * Tachyon` is now known as Tach[Away]
[23:21] <Kamilion> t3chguy: really? How strange. Not only does it work for me, it annoys the heck out of me because I can't figure out how to turn it off.
[23:21] <BilbyMac> t3chguy darnit :(
[23:22] <t3chguy> lol Kamilion
[23:22] <t3chguy> what Distro and what Pi
[23:22] <Kamilion> pi2, lubuntu
[23:22] <BilbyMac> CoJaBo: #lier
[23:22] <t3chguy> I'm running Pi2 Ubuntu Mate
[23:22] <CoJaBo> BilbyMac ?
[23:22] <BilbyMac> CoJaBo: Fixed a printer and it didn't turn into a nine hour Epic. #hashtagwinning
[23:22] <CoJaBo> BilbyMac: i had trouble believing it myself =D
[23:23] <BilbyMac> Kamilion the only copmuter time i find myself regretting is the non-productive stuff, when i was watching anime and messing around instead of going out and meeting girls / getting educated :P
[23:23] * TMan459 (~TMan459@68-113-228-103.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:23] <CoJaBo> the port it was pleb into was busted. that was it.
[23:23] <Kamilion> t3chguy: I think in my case it's xfce4-power-manager-settings
[23:23] <BilbyMac> CoJaBo: nice bullet dodge
[23:23] <CoJaBo> half an hour to get to the switch. but 5 second fix xD
[23:23] * NeverSummer (~NeverSumm@2601:281:8202:1a17:e1d0:87ec:8956:b8d4) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:24] <BilbyMac> last printer i worked on was ~ 4.5 hours. of course, it was a 48” plotter and replacing the drive belt necessitated taking apart the entire thing
[23:24] <at0m> Kamilion: or look at libcec2
[23:24] <CoJaBo> i will never gave tits luck again D=
[23:24] <CoJaBo> have this lick
[23:24] <CoJaBo> luck
[23:24] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:24] <BilbyMac> or these typing skills :P
[23:24] <at0m> nice pun
[23:24] <t3chguy> Kamilion: what does `xset q` return?
[23:24] * TMan459 (~TMan459@68-113-228-103.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:24] <t3chguy> (bottom line)
[23:24] <CoJaBo> yeh, young on a phone
[23:24] <Kamilion> BilbyMac: *sigh* I'll take a tsundere 2D girl over a real one any day. At least you can quit VLC to stop listening... *laughs*
[23:24] <CoJaBo> typing even
[23:25] <Kamilion> DPMS is disabled
[23:25] <CoJaBo> also the screen is broke, which really sucks :/
[23:25] <t3chguy> Thats where the issue is
[23:25] <Kamilion> DPMS (Energy Star):
[23:25] <t3chguy> my system doesn't have the DPMS Extension
[23:25] <t3chguy> so I can't disable it
[23:25] <t3chguy> Grrrrr
[23:25] <Kamilion> Standby: 600 Suspend: 600 Off: 600
[23:25] <t3chguy> Kamilion: got a link to the image you used?
[23:26] <Kamilion> it's the one you're using, with a bunch of wajig purges and adds to switch to lubuntu-desktop
[23:26] <t3chguy> lol
[23:26] <t3chguy> I might reimage
[23:26] <t3chguy> because this is f*cking annoying
[23:26] <t3chguy> it could be my rpi-update
[23:26] <t3chguy> since I'm not sure if thats made to run on this distro
[23:26] <Kamilion> hm, i didn't use it
[23:26] <Kamilion> I'm part of lubuntu-qa
[23:26] <t3chguy> cool
[23:27] <Kamilion> so at this point, building images is kind of second nature to me
[23:27] <CoJaBo> i have two "monitors" i used with my pi; a 3" black
[23:27] <t3chguy> I might try Kubuntu lol
[23:27] <t3chguy> KDE Plasma is beautiful
[23:27] <Kamilion> t3chguy: https://github.com/clearkimura/Customizer
[23:27] <Kamilion> this was recently rewritten in python
[23:27] <CoJaBo> and white one, and another 60" rear-projection crt
[23:27] <t3chguy> Kamilion: how would that be useful to me?
[23:28] <CoJaBo> neither have any concept of power-shave lol
[23:28] <Kamilion> it's used to rebuild images from the image files (without them running)
[23:28] <t3chguy> ah cool
[23:29] <Kamilion> EG, you can load the ubuntu-mate image, chroot into it, change the packages all around, and you end up with a new image.
[23:29] * summersault (~george@191.251.18.179) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[23:29] * Kane (~Kane@au321-1-78-232-149-217.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Night all o/)
[23:29] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[23:29] <t3chguy> I guess thats not a bad idea
[23:29] <Kamilion> i used it to mess around with the ubuntu-mate image and install the lubuntu-desktop packageset
[23:30] <t3chguy> except I'm so used to server platforms I'd screw up changing around desktop environments
[23:30] <Kamilion> actually, I use it to make my server ISOs
[23:30] <Kamilion> https://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-deploy <--- this is my xen appliance.
[23:30] <t3chguy> I use Cloud prodivders and their template images lol
[23:30] <Kamilion> it's a modified lubuntu amd64 .iso
[23:31] <t3chguy> I could try: http://letsfollowthewhiterabbit.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/kde-on-raspberry-pi.html
[23:31] <t3chguy> but its debian
[23:31] <t3chguy> lack of PPAs will depress me
[23:31] <Kamilion> well, the iso's not in the github, the github's just the tools to assemble one from the lubuntu sources, but still
[23:31] <Kamilion> me too!
[23:31] <Kamilion> that's my main reason for sticking with ubuntu :/
[23:31] <t3chguy> lol
[23:31] <Kamilion> PPAs are just too darn useful.
[23:31] <BilbyMac> Kamilion hah. I got lucky with mai waifu
[23:32] <Kamilion> BilbyMac: yep, the smart ones are hard to catch.
[23:32] <Kamilion> too jaded by other males XD
[23:32] <t3chguy> I think more people need to wake up this issue: https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/487
[23:32] <BilbyMac> shes’ currently behind me on the couch in a daze - got out of surgery a few hours ago - and her comment after food and meds: “you should go download archer season 6”
[23:33] <Kamilion> Aye, you should.
[23:33] <BilbyMac> We just got caught up, hulk smashed all 5 seasons that are on amazon in the last month or so
[23:34] <Kamilion> or pay for whatever streaming service offers it. Unless they offer adbacked HD viewing.
[23:34] <Kamilion> like crunchyroll.com does. My adblockers just seem to clean it spotless.
[23:34] <BilbyMac> if we watched more anime i’d pay for crunchyroll
[23:34] <Kamilion> I've paid for it for three of the last five years.
[23:35] <Kamilion> nothing's caught my eye enough to go premium this season
[23:35] <Kamilion> 480p adless is good enough for me
[23:35] <BilbyMac> my younger sister in law - 13 years younger, she just finished her freshman year of college - stays up late watchign anime with her boyfriend (who lives in another state)
[23:35] <BilbyMac> said BF is a few months older than me… but that’s an entirely differentstory lol
[23:35] <ozzzy> age doesn't mean much anymore
[23:36] <BilbyMac> i will honestly admit if i wasn’t literally married to her sister i would be going after her <_< >_>
[23:36] <Kamilion> easy enough with screen sharing and high bandwidth internet connections
[23:36] <Kamilion> aye
[23:36] <Kamilion> there's how many billion of us on the planet now?
[23:36] <ozzzy> 7ish
[23:37] <t3chguy> Kamilion: do you happen to know what Desktop Environment Ubuntu Snappy Core ships with?
[23:37] <Kamilion> t3chguy: It comes with one? I thought it was ubuntu-server like
[23:37] <t3chguy> ah right
[23:37] <t3chguy> hmm
[23:37] <t3chguy> I could just install that
[23:37] <t3chguy> then install kde or something atop it
[23:37] <Kamilion> meh, snappy is it's own can of crazy
[23:37] <t3chguy> lol why
[23:38] <Kamilion> Wooo. First off, the idea is a good one, I just take issue with the implimentation
[23:39] <Kamilion> but how they slice things up to make snappy layers is...
[23:39] <BilbyMac> yay, i’ll have archer shortly
[23:39] <Kamilion> I'm trying to find the words to describe this sinking pit of despair feeling
[23:39] <BilbyMac> also i love my diskstation but i do wish download station was more full featured or allowed remote control
[23:39] <Kamilion> like, in some of the demos, glib was a layer
[23:40] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-134-207-33.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:40] <Kamilion> changing out that layer broke the whole stack without a rebuild
[23:40] <Kamilion> that's a rather severe pitfall
[23:41] <t3chguy> imma stick a fresh Ubuntu Mate image onto a spare MicroSD card and see how that fares
[23:41] <Kamilion> but in general, debian/ubuntu .deb packages have worked cross-release for me a good amount of times
[23:41] <parityDrive> Kamilion: what do you think of this?
[23:41] <Kamilion> snappy just seems like it's easy to get yourself into trouble
[23:41] <Kamilion> and while you now have the ability to roll back
[23:41] <parityDrive> http://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Camera-Night-Vision-Module/dp/B00Y0YY2II/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1438288337&sr=8-7&keywords=raspberry+pi+IR+camera
[23:43] <Kamilion> parityDrive: nice kit -- greenboard too, so that's not from uctronics... It's also the older 'side-panel' design. No real problem with it that I can see.
[23:43] <parityDrive> won't ship to canada wtf :(
[23:43] <Kamilion> they don't mention which lens adapter that is
[23:43] <Kamilion> looks like the m12 one
[23:43] <Kamilion> finding a different lens to fit that might be tough
[23:43] <BilbyMac> so it’s the NOIR camera with a little board with a couple of IR LEDs on it?
[23:44] <parityDrive> i have to get my stuff from buyapi or newark
[23:44] <Kamilion> looks like it's the normal module with the IR filter removed
[23:44] <BilbyMac> not bad i guess, some of the work is done for you and the price isn’t any worse than diy
[23:44] <Kamilion> uctronic's black boards never had the filter to begin with
[23:44] <parityDrive> uctronic ship to canada?
[23:44] <Kamilion> they're china, they ship anywhere you pay them enough to
[23:45] <parityDrive> LOL
[23:45] <parityDrive> nice
[23:45] <parityDrive> http://www.uctronics.com/raspberry-pi-noir-camera-board-w-cs-mount-lens-compatible-with-official-module.html
[23:45] <parityDrive> which illuminator?
[23:45] * robh71 (~robh71@r74-193-1-195.cnrocmta01.conrtx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:46] * Tach[Away] is now known as Tachyon`
[23:46] <Kamilion> the revb they sell these days takes either the 3-source illuminator or the screw-on-ears illuminators
[23:47] <Kamilion> parityDrive: since you're looking for a single unit, you're better off checking their ebay store
[23:47] <Kamilion> http://stores.ebay.com/electronics-lee
[23:48] <parityDrive> no idea what 3 source/screw on are.
[23:48] <Kamilion> the one you posted, with the 'ears'
[23:48] <parityDrive> I just use my current Pi B as a micro server
[23:48] <Kamilion> two screws hold those LEDs on
[23:49] <Kamilion> there's no other connections that must be made
[23:49] <Kamilion> just board-to-board contact with the screws keeping them bound
[23:50] * Encapsulation (~Astoundin@unaffiliated/encapsulation) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:50] <parityDrive> ok
[23:50] <Kamilion> one screw is GND, the other is +5V
[23:50] <Kamilion> one for each side
[23:50] * maikeru (~pi@unaffiliated/maikeru) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:50] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@85.31.80.142) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:50] <Kamilion> the newer one uses a little plastic power connector, and has three LEDs, and looks like a ring that fits around the lens.
[23:50] <Kamilion> and it's all one unit.
[23:51] <Kamilion> there's not much difference
[23:52] <Kamilion> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-ArrayInfrared-IR-2-LED-Board-CS-M12-Mount-Lens-Camera-shell-case-/400938141362
[23:52] * testman (598e9292@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.142.146.146) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:52] <Kamilion> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOIR-Camera-Board-w-CS-mount-Lens-compatible-official-Raspberry-Pi-module-/291404350087
[23:53] <Kamilion> the ebay side says ships worldwide except to the UK.
[23:53] <Kamilion> probably because they have a local partner there
[23:53] * NullMoogleCable (~NullMoogl@cpe-45-46-208-46.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[23:55] * Berg (~chatzilla@pa114-72-175-111.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:58] <Kamilion> ooh.
[23:58] <Kamilion> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Infrared-IR-4-LED-Board-Wateproof-CS-M12-Mount-Fixed-Lens-Camera-Shell-Case-/271902338348
[23:58] * Natch (~Natch@h-155-122.a444.priv.bahnhof.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:58] <Kamilion> looks like they have a wider selection of illuminators now

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