#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2015-10-24

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <Bebop182> Well I had no issue to get one at all, and no issue with it so far, and paid about 300€. It was the best option at the time and I see no reason to seek for another phone
[0:00] * Keanu73 (Keanu73@unaffiliated/keanu73) Quit (Quit: Gotta go to bed or something. See ya!)
[0:00] * doomlord (~textual@host81-155-67-16.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:01] <[Saint]> I assume you purchased it after they started shipping them without the silly invite requirement, or on one of their fleeting invite-free ~8h grace periods then.
[0:01] <[Saint]> Their purchase model was a massive turnoff.
[0:02] <[Saint]> By the time you could get them, as in widely available, without silly prerequisites, there were multiple vastly better devices on the scene.
[0:02] <[Saint]> They kinda shot themselves in the foot.
[0:02] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] <Bebop182> I doubt they would have sold that much phone and made that much noise on a saturated market without the invite system.
[0:04] <[Saint]> Well, rather hilariously, the invite system was intended to be self limiting as their was no way in hell they could meet even their expected demand.
[0:04] <[Saint]> *there
[0:04] <ali1234> the eric cartman marketing model
[0:04] * methuzla (~methuzla@dsl254-017-117.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] <[Saint]> And by the time they /could/ meet demand, no one cared anymore.
[0:05] <[Saint]> Hilarious.
[0:05] * ozzzy (~ozzzy@unaffiliated/ozzzy) Quit (Quit: Haulin' ass)
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[0:06] * normalra (~normal@unaffiliated/normalra) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:06] <[Saint]> I won't even begin to go into detail about the repeated and massive failure that is ColorOS.
[0:06] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@ewimax3.ewimax.mw) Quit (Quit: AbouEmre)
[0:08] <Bebop182> Well they got it right anyway, it is a great product. It was my second android device comming from an HTC, and is the first one I can say do as good as my iphones as a daily tool. the HTC sense nonsens was a bad experience
[0:08] <[Saint]> Oh, sorry, mixing up my silly *OS names. OxygenOS.
[0:09] * Lorduncan (~Thunderbi@57.Red-79-159-188.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Quit: Lorduncan)
[0:09] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:09] <[Saint]> Get a Nexus device next time and all the things they did wrong will become glaringly apparent.
[0:09] <[Saint]> If it's like your second Android device ever, I kinda understand the view.
[0:10] <Bebop182> I havent tryied it, it seems to be almost stock, they borrowed a few thing from cyanogen. But at least it is not Touch wiz or the damn sense environment
[0:10] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@ Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:10] <ali1234> it's really funny watching all the device manufacturers flail around trying to "add value" to android
[0:10] <ali1234> and all of it is universally hated
[0:10] * doomlord (~textual@host81-155-67-16.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:10] <Bebop182> There are backtracking on that point
[0:11] <ali1234> and now they're all slowly reducing their add ons
[0:11] <ali1234> because they can't just remove them, that would be admitting that they are all rubbish
[0:11] <[Saint]> I like Google's stance with OEMs becoming harder now.
[0:12] <[Saint]> Thou shalt not modify Doze.
[0:12] <[Saint]> Thou shalt not hide services from batterystats.
[0:12] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] <Bebop182> nexus was more expensive and the 5,5 inch is really the best size for me
[0:12] <[Saint]> Thou shalt not pre-grant permissions.
[0:12] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] <[Saint]> Google finally taking a much harder line on what "Powered by Android" entails has been a long time coming.
[0:14] <[Saint]> It's mildly hilarious that OxygenOS is still stuck on 5.0.1
[0:15] <Bebop182> To get back to raspberry, does anyone run a java development forge for small team on their Pi?
[0:15] <[Saint]> Never settle, guys. Never settle.
[0:16] <Bebop182> You are better off with the Cyanogen 12, even if there are a few issue with that system
[0:16] <[Saint]> issues presented by OnePlus gleefully breaking things for no reason.
[0:17] <Bebop182> You are a strange person
[0:18] <[Saint]> Well, it is true, OnePlus carved up their HAL and RIL ("did a Samsung") for like...no reason. Made things absurdly difficult.
[0:18] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:19] * vlitzer (~vlitzer@ Quit (Quit: ok bye)
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[0:28] * regum (~regum@240.Red-88-17-203.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[0:31] * jumpman (~jumpman@unaffiliated/jumpman) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:32] <Bebop182> Hey what linux distribution are you using on your Pi? I'm running a mint 17.2 on my desktop, but I'd like to use a more server focused linux.
[0:32] * shurizzle (~shurizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] * GeorgeJipa (~GeorgeJip@unaffiliated/georgejipa) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] <[Saint]> https://github.com/debian-pi/raspbian-ua-netinst
[0:34] <[Saint]> or, ALARM.
[0:34] <[Saint]> pretty hard to beat one of the minimal baseinstalls.
[0:37] * Wec is now known as WecZZ
[0:39] * jmbarbier (~jmbarbier@rominet.solidev.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:44] <Bebop182> Is this the official distribution for the Pi? I guess I'll probably go with this one. I was hoping to find a linux with a strong package validation mecanism, because on mint some server oriented package are not very well put together. I probably should look for trustful custom package repositories
[0:44] * brethil (~brethil@93-32-78-69.ip32.fastwebnet.it) Quit (Quit: Quitting existence)
[0:44] <[Saint]> No.
[0:44] <[Saint]> Arch is...arch.
[0:45] * brethil (~brethil@93-32-78-69.ip32.fastwebnet.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:45] * lowfive (~lowfive@zero.subtl.org) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:45] <[Saint]> But the raspbian linked above does indeed just use the same repos.
[0:45] <[Saint]> it's just considerably smaller.
[0:45] <[Saint]> ~60MB vs ~2GB+
[0:46] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-78-102-111-158.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: tomeff)
[0:46] * _jerry_ (~jerry@p200300668567D30129D161D4ECBF83B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
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[0:47] <[Saint]> I can understand the want for package validation, but IMO that doesn't make a whole lot of sense while debian (and every other major distro) doesn't actually have a verifiable and reversible build system for all its packages.
[0:48] <[Saint]> Though I suppose it's better to know you're getting a package you can't trust intact.
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[0:49] * doomlord (~textual@host81-155-67-16.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:52] * weemsledeux (~textual@unaffiliated/weems) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:53] <Bebop182> That could be any kind of validation mechanism would do, I'd like to know the whys behind the way some package are setup, because semetimes it feels like a random guy packed his own deb and pushed it on an official ubuntu or whatever repo. I had a lot of issue with apache tomcat for instance, and ended up recompiling the damn thing
[0:53] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:54] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:54] * cmoneylulz is now known as cmoneywork
[0:54] <[Saint]> Well, in all fairness, every package is just "a random guy packed his own deb and pushed it on an official ubuntu or whatever repo"
[0:55] * TyrfingMjolnir (~Tyrfing@52.90-149-171.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:56] * damianw (~textual@c-68-61-255-26.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Peace)
[0:58] <Bebop182> Yeah but the package should be reviewed by multiple people before being pushed on official channels, as we do with code in application development
[0:59] <[Saint]> In theory, sure.
[1:00] * kd7jwc (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:00] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] * Anaxyn (Anaxyn@botters/Xenthys/bot/Anaxyn) Quit (Quit: Major update available, restarting...)
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[1:03] * uber (~uber@unaffiliated/uber) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:03] * choki (~choki@unaffiliated/choki) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[1:03] <[Saint]> trust is a funny thing in software.
[1:04] * plugwash (~plugwash@bcde48d9.skybroadband.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:04] <Xenthys> Trust, what's that? Can I eat it? :O
[1:04] * bedah (~bedah@dyndsl-037-138-048-191.ewe-ip-backbone.de) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[1:04] <[Saint]> Sadly, no. It would need to exist first. ;)
[1:05] <Xenthys> Good answer, you won a cookie!
[1:06] <[Saint]> ...can I eat /that/? Does it exist?
[1:06] <Xenthys> Sadly, no. CookieMonster ate it. :/
[1:06] <Xenthys> Anaxyn: hostmask CookieMonster
[1:06] <Anaxyn> Xenthys: CookieMonster!~really@i.am.homotechsual.co.uk
[1:07] * Berg (~chatzilla@pa114-73-155-236.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] <Xenthys> hi Berg o/
[1:07] <[Saint]> On the topic of trust, I do like that debian is fairly aggressively moving towards a fully reversible build process for all its packages.
[1:07] <[Saint]> Been a long time coming.
[1:07] <ali1234> yeah it's great
[1:07] <Berg> hi folks
[1:07] * spvensko (~spvensko@unaffiliated/spvensko) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:07] <Berg> how come i cant sneek in?
[1:07] * doomlord (~textual@host81-155-67-16.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:08] <[Saint]> Must've stood on a creaky floorboard.
[1:08] * plugwash (~plugwash@bcde48d9.skybroadband.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:08] <Berg> yeah possible
[1:09] <Bebop182> Hey whats your favorites raspberry module, anyone got their hands on the touch screen?
[1:09] * dunkel2 (~dunkel2@ Quit (Quit: dunkel2)
[1:09] <Xenthys> My favorite module is the infrared camera, because I like to silently monitor everything I can :D
[1:10] <Berg> ultrasonics
[1:10] <Berg> do i need a because?
[1:10] <Xenthys> to annoy dogs? :P
[1:11] <Berg> ooo never thought of that
[1:11] <[Saint]> Sense HAT is badass.
[1:11] <[Saint]> though it's a bit screwy without adjusting for the heat the pi itself puts out.
[1:12] * chupacabra (~chupacabr@cpe-72-179-29-63.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[1:12] * cessor (~cessor@75-131-209-49.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] <Bebop182> Wouldn't the PS3 Eye a better choice? would it work on raspbian?
[1:12] <Berg> put it on a long lead
[1:13] <Bebop182> Berg go ahead tell us ^^
[1:13] <[Saint]> Define "better".
[1:13] <[Saint]> Certainly not cheaper.
[1:13] <Berg> sorry missed ...tell us what?
[1:13] <Bebop182> 7€
[1:13] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] <Bebop182> the Pi cam is like 30
[1:14] <[Saint]> Oh, hmmm, they have dropped in price indeed.
[1:14] * chupacabra (~chupacabr@cpe-72-179-29-63.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] <Berg> I have so many little modules a web cam and every time i get a new toy its the best
[1:15] * plugwash especially likes the connector arrangement they used for connecting to the Pi
[1:15] <plugwash> which allows you to choose whether you want pins sticking out of the top of the sense hat or not
[1:16] * [Saint] nods
[1:16] * plugwash has just realised you could also easilly use the sense hat with a ribbon cable
[1:17] * shurizzle (~shurizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[1:17] <ali1234> Bebop182: the pi camera is better cos it is fully integrated with the GPU
[1:18] * sentriz (~Senan@unaffiliated/sentriz) Quit (Quit: distro upgrade reboot)
[1:19] <Bebop182> Yeah and it does 1080p I just saw. So it all depends on what you need, I use the PS3 eye for head tracking, its amazing
[1:20] <Berg> plugwash: thats what i meant
[1:20] <plugwash> btw a quick question on the sense hat, what comes with it? do you get both the long and short pin connectors in the pack?
[1:20] <Berg> stop the heat from the pi
[1:21] * Bebop182 (4f54141a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[1:21] <Berg> yesterday i added the motion lip to my raspbian and now my web usb cam has a function
[1:22] <Berg> is there no end to this
[1:23] <ali1234> is sense hat the space one?
[1:23] <[Saint]> It is.
[1:23] <ali1234> IMUs are fun
[1:23] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:24] <ali1234> the other ones are a bit meh
[1:24] <Kamilion> I HAVE A GIFT FOR THEE
[1:24] <Kamilion> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:51F14B34CAA57D5FB2891F8D2D8E99435D8E2E43
[1:24] <Kamilion> lubuntu-15.10-desktop-armhf-raspberry-pi-2.img.bz2
[1:24] * Bebop182 (4f54141a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[1:25] <Bebop182> What the sense hat was intended for?, it seems it is going to the ISS. Looks like it would be perfect for advanced flying RC stuff
[1:25] <ali1234> it was designed specifically to send to the ISS
[1:26] <ali1234> personally my favorite hat it the adafruit motor hat
[1:26] <Kamilion> Bebop182: Dunno, but as someone who's done some of the advanced flying stuff, can tell you, IMU integration with sensor fusion is not easy as a hobbyist.
[1:26] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:26] <[Saint]> a bit of a gimmick really. the whole "pi in space/sense HAT" thing.
[1:27] <plugwash> Bebop182, it was originally designed as part of the "astro pi" project which AIUI was/is a competition for kids to have their code run in space.
[1:27] <Kamilion> ... for how long? And what kind of radiation shielded reset controller was used? lol
[1:27] <[Saint]> "And, after extensive testing, we can now tell you all, that these sensors behaved exactly the way we thought they would, and could esily predict, and test, here on Earth...Who knew, amirite?" - NASA
[1:28] <Kamilion> Also, how the heck would they get it up there? I worked at nasa for four years, and I learned it's like $35000 a pound to get something into orbit.
[1:28] <plugwash> Well it was inside the ISS, which itself is not in a particually high orbit. Afaict normal electronics fares reasonablly well on the ISS.
[1:28] <Kamilion> yeah, they can use normal laptops and such
[1:28] <Bebop182> So it is not related to space system other than being in orbit?
[1:28] <Kamilion> the world's fastest laptop is currently a toshiba toughbook
[1:29] * Kozuch (~Kozuch@78-80-181-179.tmcz.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:29] <Kamilion> but only because it's traveling at 4.76 miles/second
[1:29] <plugwash> I tend to agree that the whole thing is a bit of a gimmik but I guess such gimmiks are needed to keep up public support for the ISS :/
[1:29] <[Saint]> There's literally a whole series on getting the Sense HAT Payload approved for flight on the blog.
[1:29] <Bebop182> xD
[1:29] <[Saint]> Should probably read it, if you're curious.
[1:29] <Kamilion> eh, I lost my amazement factor after working there
[1:30] <Kamilion> i WILL go check the blog out though, been about nine months or so since I last read through.
[1:31] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:31] <[Saint]> plugwash: they're asking the age old question, are 1s and 0s still 1s and 0s in high altitude?
[1:31] <[Saint]> <dramatic reverb!>
[1:31] <Kamilion> Yes, but only after a few drinks.
[1:32] <Bebop182> Ok I just understood the purpose, they don't care about the sensor, but they can allow kids to display messages in space with the leds... alright i guess its cool for kids.... where do I apply? :p
[1:32] <[Saint]> Pretty sure they picked the candidates long ago.
[1:32] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:33] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] <[Saint]> It's all a bit odd.
[1:34] <Bebop182> From what I understand they will continue to upload stuff on the thing
[1:34] <plugwash> It seems pretty clear to me that someone at ESA had some budget to spend on PR/"education" and decided to spend it on a tiein with the raspberry pi foundation
[1:34] <plugwash> and the rpf would have been mad to say no
[1:35] <Bebop182> Its cool if they start teaching programming to kids
[1:35] <[Saint]> Well, NASA or no NASA, RPF was already hammering that front home in a big way.
[1:35] <[Saint]> ...for better or worse.
[1:36] <plugwash> (note: astro Pi is ESA not NASA)
[1:36] <[Saint]> *SA, ...fixed.
[1:37] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:38] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@unaffiliated/amigojapan) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:38] * nidr0x (~nidr0x@nidr0x.ddns.jazztel.es) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:38] <plugwash> anyway, space tieins asside the sense hat has enough stuff on it to demonstrate to kids that there is a world beyond keyboards monitors and mice
[1:38] <methuzla> and first person shooters
[1:39] <ali1234> thing is though
[1:39] <ali1234> everyone already knows that
[1:39] <[Saint]> How could a child of today _not_?
[1:39] <ali1234> what's tough is getting kids (and adults) to think in the abstract
[1:40] <Berg> what is tuff isd getting kids to think outside the game
[1:40] <Berg> get them to see that its not just entertainment
[1:40] <[Saint]> What's really tough?
[1:40] <[Saint]> Tungsten.
[1:40] <[Saint]> That's like, hard, and stuff.
[1:41] <Berg> right
[1:41] <ali1234> Berg: that's easy you just give them minecraft
[1:41] <Berg> he has it
[1:41] <Berg> thats his favourite game
[1:41] <Berg> he's 8
[1:42] <Berg> his jaw dropped when i showed him hello world in python
[1:42] <Berg> now he is a maniac
[1:42] <Berg> :)
[1:42] <ali1234> minecraft can barely even be considered a game
[1:42] * Coldblackice (~anonz@unaffiliated/coldblackice) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:42] <plugwash> ali1234, to some extent yes but knowing that the world exists is one thing, knowing that it's something you can interact with rather than some black magic is another
[1:42] * Noldorin (~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:42] <Berg> the mind set that it is a game is some how defeating it a little
[1:43] * vlitzer (~vlitzer@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:44] <[Saint]> I don't think so. There's plenty of games with no clear objective, or even no objective at all.
[1:44] <Berg> I mean the idea it is a game
[1:44] <Xenthys> Garry's Mod is a good example, [Saint]. :)
[1:44] <[Saint]> Implying it isn't?
[1:44] <ali1234> can they really be called games though? i mean philosphically.. obviously you can call anything a game if you want to
[1:44] <Berg> it is a learning tool in the respect the recipes it uses to make things
[1:44] <Bebop182> Berg make sure he gets to know C well
[1:45] <Berg> he will
[1:45] <Berg> im learning C++ at this time so i can advance him
[1:45] <ali1234> plugwash: understanding that there are blocks that do things and interact... this is an important lesson in both minecraft and the real world :)
[1:46] <[Saint]> "Minecraft is a game about breaking and placing blocks." - https://minecraft.net/
[1:46] <ali1234> because few people can understand how a computer works at the atomic level
[1:46] <Bebop182> Nowadays they even teach programming in javascript, which will only produce astonishingly bad programmer for the most part
[1:46] <[Saint]> A think a lot of peopel who argue about Minecraft /not/ being a game haven't ever actually played it for more than a few minutes.
[1:46] <[Saint]> There's a very clear end, and a clear objective.
[1:46] <ali1234> yes, the ender dragon and all that
[1:47] <ali1234> probably the most boring thing you can do in minecraft
[1:47] <Bebop182> +1
[1:47] <ali1234> they shouldn't have bothered in my opinion
[1:47] <ali1234> but i guess they needed to do something to call it 1.0
[1:47] <Bebop182> Because filling your friends house with TNT is so much better ! ^^
[1:48] <ali1234> i've no idea how much minecraft i played... but it's a lot
[1:48] <ali1234> i can't play normal games any more
[1:50] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-78-102-111-158.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:52] <Bebop182> Guys
[1:52] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:52] <Berg> I can
[1:52] <Berg> what?
[1:52] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:52] * chithead (~chithead@gentoo/developer/chithanh) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:53] <Bebop182> I read somewhere that raspberry read micro Sd which is good I have a 8GB one... but it doesn't right? -_-'
[1:53] <[Saint]> Of course it does.
[1:53] <ali1234> doesn't what?
[1:53] <Berg> right'
[1:53] <Bebop182> Read micro sd cards
[1:54] <ali1234> it does
[1:54] <[Saint]> What do you think the microSD slot is for?
[1:54] * chithead (~chithead@gentoo/developer/chithanh) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] <ali1234> it needs one to even boot
[1:54] <[Saint]> It's not there for decoration.
[1:54] * plugwash (~plugwash@bcde48d9.skybroadband.com) has left #raspberrypi
[1:54] <Bebop182> Becaus I just saw they were selling micro sd to SD adapters
[1:54] <ali1234> the old pi used sd
[1:54] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-78-102-111-158.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:54] <ali1234> you don't want the old one though
[1:54] <Bebop182> damn I'm happy now
[1:54] <[Saint]> they're electrically identical, microsd and sd.
[1:55] <Bebop182> I just bought the 2B a few hours ago
[1:55] <[Saint]> Oh God, why?
[1:55] <Berg> cheaper?
[1:55] <ali1234> oh no here we go
[1:56] <Bebop182> 38€
[1:56] <Berg> with a free set of steak knives?
[1:56] <[Saint]> Why would anyone _not_ get the rpi 2?
[1:56] <[Saint]> That frankly amazes me.
[1:56] <Berg> whats the cost in AU dollar?
[1:57] <Bebop182> probably more expensive cause AU dolalrs sucks =
[1:57] <Bebop182> =)
[1:57] <Xenthys> I have a B and a B+, the RPi 2 didn't exist when I bought them, and now I don't need a third one. Is it a good excuse to not get it, [Saint]? :P
[1:57] <[Saint]> Xenthys: well... ;)
[1:57] <[Saint]> I just can't imagine the thought process here.
[1:58] <ali1234> the only reason to not get the 2 is because you need the A+ form factor
[1:58] <[Saint]> 700MHz ARMv6 single core, 512Mb RAM, vs. 900MHz ARMv7 quad, with 1GB RAM, for essentially the same price.
[1:58] <Bebop182> I think they said the A+ was using less power and can be a plus if on battery I guess
[1:58] <Berg> Im wondering Bebop182 why buy the older type? and how much was the rpi2 from that shop?
[1:58] <[Saint]> "Yes, I'll have the vastly inferior model please!"
[1:58] <ali1234> if they made a 2A i'd buy it instantly
[1:58] <[Saint]> ...said no one ever.
[1:58] <Bebop182> Berg I said I got the 2B
[1:59] * mac_ified (~mac_ified@67-9-150-210.res.bhn.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:59] <[Saint]> 2B != rpi 2
[1:59] <Berg> ooo i thought you said B
[1:59] <Bebop182> 2B = raspberry 2 B
[1:59] <Bebop182> with some pie in the middle
[1:59] <ali1234> it was clear enough to everyone else
[1:59] * brethil (~brethil@93-32-78-69.ip32.fastwebnet.it) Quit (Quit: Quitting existence)
[2:00] <ali1234> nobody sells the old rev 2 B any more
[2:00] <[Saint]> You pretty much threw away three extra cores, and double the RAM.
[2:00] <Berg> im artistic sorry
[2:00] <ali1234> stupid version numbering system anyway
[2:00] <[Saint]> It is.
[2:01] <Bebop182> Totally, I was so sad mine had no the "+" mention, it feels worse :P
[2:01] * k0mp0 (~k0mp0@05470e52.skybroadband.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:02] <[Saint]> That's nowhere near as troublesome as ending up with the ARMv6 singlecore version as opposed to the ARMv7 quad.
[2:02] * AbouEmre1 (~Thunderbi@ewimax3.ewimax.mw) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:03] <[Saint]> From time to time, you'll see someone doing something awesome on a raspi, and think "Ooooh, I could do that!", but then reality will hit and you'll realize you're stuck with ARMv6 and all the hoorors that a dead platform bring.
[2:03] <[Saint]> *horrors, even.
[2:03] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[2:03] <Bebop182> I'm not sure you can get that one anymore they ran out a few months ago
[2:03] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[2:03] * AbouEmre1 is now known as AbouEmre
[2:03] * Syliss (~Syliss@dpncorp1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[2:04] <[Saint]> RPF pretty much singlehandedly revived ARMv6, which was doing a REALLY good job of dying the noble death it should have been dying.
[2:04] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] <ali1234> eh... they didn't do a good enough job to make ubuntu bring back support
[2:04] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:04] <[Saint]> It had been relegated to the land of set top boxes and mobile phones no one wants.
[2:05] <Bebop182> You couldn't get anything but raspbian on older model?
[2:06] <ali1234> raspbian, arch, or debian ARMv4
[2:06] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:06] <ali1234> and probably some other silly distros no one's heard of
[2:06] <[Saint]> and a handful of other distros no one cares about.
[2:06] <[Saint]> hah - snap.
[2:06] <Bebop182> xD
[2:07] <ali1234> you can always roll your own...
[2:07] <Bebop182> Damn i want to play with the damn thing, what's your projects on yours?
[2:08] <ali1234> https://goo.gl/photos/Vv58ixtRBzP8nDC4A
[2:08] <[Saint]> I have a sense hat doing some monitoring of an indoor gardening project.
[2:09] <ali1234> also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39IF8Ul9oU
[2:09] <Xenthys> infrared camera + motion detection between 2 specified hours, screams when it detects something
[2:09] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:09] * c00ljs (~c00ljs@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:09] <Bebop182> ali1234 does it turns?
[2:09] * ozzzy (~ozzzy@unaffiliated/ozzzy) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:09] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:09] <ali1234> turns?
[2:09] * [Saint] is off to Xenthys's place to troll his camera with an IR beamformer.
[2:10] <Bebop182> the lego car
[2:10] <ali1234> yes... it turns...
[2:10] <[Saint]> There is a season, turn, turn, turn...
[2:10] <Xenthys> [Saint]: luckily, I don't have a cat
[2:10] <Bebop182> damn that's cool ! the whole camera car project, not the turning part ^^
[2:11] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[2:11] <ali1234> i have an android app to drive it
[2:12] <ali1234> the lego is by far the single most expensive part of the project, including the android phone
[2:12] <Bebop182> Guys we can actually drive his lego car
[2:12] <ali1234> hah... only if you're in range of my wifi
[2:13] <Bebop182> dang! that could have led to awesome trolling
[2:13] <ali1234> although it can stream to twitch.tv as well
[2:13] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The Kirito is always right foundation. Grand reopening.)
[2:13] * travnewmatic (~travnewma@66-90-143-51.dyn.grandenetworks.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:14] <[Saint]> I have one monitoring air quality, oxygen saturation, dumping CO2 when required, monitoring humidity and adjusting the sprayers, monitoring nutrient temperature and solution, etc. etc.
[2:15] <[Saint]> For, ummm...totally legal things. Yes.
[2:15] <ali1234> hahaha
[2:16] <Bebop182> No one will prevent you from growing some salad
[2:16] <ali1234> wish i had a greenhouse
[2:16] <ali1234> i'd totally do the same
[2:16] <Bebop182> Growing some salad? :p
[2:16] * Kozuch (~Kozuch@78-80-181-179.tmcz.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[2:17] <ali1234> i want to make a solar powered pi as well
[2:17] <ali1234> which would probably work pretty well as part of the same project
[2:17] <Berg> is it solar powered or bettery
[2:17] <Berg> battery
[2:18] <Bebop182> You thought about the project already? what solar panel surface would be required?
[2:20] <ali1234> for a greenhouse? a smallish one would probably suffice
[2:20] <ali1234> it's oing to be idle most of the time
[2:20] <ali1234> dunno how much power pumps would use, didn't think about that
[2:22] * amigojapan (~amigojapa@unaffiliated/amigojapan) Quit (Quit: amigojapan)
[2:24] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:24] * gbaman_ (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:25] <Bebop182> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BLqC8CGKy0 cool stuff
[2:26] <ali1234> lol that's a terrible idea
[2:27] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:27] <ali1234> a PATA drive will try to pull current through the IDE cable
[2:27] <ali1234> i've seen cables melt because the power cable wasn't connected
[2:28] <ali1234> you might get away with it on sata
[2:30] * dashed (uid41535@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rilvrwkjdlojkqws) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:31] <Bebop182> that seems like a design flaw. that maybe was only true for certain model of disk
[2:36] <ali1234> probably
[2:37] * travnewmatic (~travnewma@66-90-143-51.dyn.grandenetworks.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:37] <Bebop182> but that's cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS0Y5nTfoqc&feature=youtu.be
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[7:24] <ironbeard> I'm using my microUSB phone charger to power my RPi2, but it's not enough power to run my 1TB HDD. I've heard I can set max_usb_current = 1 and get a full 2A if my powersupply is up to it, but how I can I tell if the powersupply can handle it? it's plugged straight into my wall
[7:26] * linkedinyou (~linkediny@unaffiliated/zacdev) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:27] <Xark> ironbeard: Read the numbers on the wall-wart.
[7:28] <Xark> ironbeard: I found that I needed a 3A power supply to let my external USB HDD be powered from RPi (with the option you mention). YMMV (mine needed a "surge" powering on).
[7:29] <ironbeard> Yeah, just discovered that. It says input 100 - 240 V 50/60Hz .2A, Output 5.V 550mA. So I guess it can only provide 550mA to my pi and I need to get another wall wart if I want to run the pi and the hdd?
[7:29] <Xark> If it doesn't work, generally the HDD just won't be mounted. Worst case, you could corrupt an SD card.
[7:29] <Xark> Yeah, 550 is not enough for reliable Pi only operation.
[7:29] <ironbeard> I have another wart (with a separate USB cable) that says Output 5V 1A
[7:30] <Xark> Getting warmer. :) 2A and 3A ones are not super common...
[7:30] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:30] <Xark> (However, Amazon has plenty of cheap 3A ones that work great)
[7:31] <ironbeard> Xark: huh :/ I guess I'll check amazon for a 3A one, as I'm trying to basically make a NAS with this Pi
[7:31] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[7:31] <ironbeard> Xark: Still 5V I presume?
[7:31] <Xark> Of course.
[7:32] <Xark> Here is the one that worked for me -> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KQH2VRW
[7:33] <ironbeard> This seems to fit the bill, I could use a standard USB 2 to microUSB to connect it, I presume? http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Wall-Charger-Outlet-Output/dp/B005CG2ATQ
[7:33] <ironbeard> Oh, nice!
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[7:34] <ironbeard> Thanks for the tip, Xark :)
[7:34] <Xark> NP. good luck with your NAS. :)
[7:35] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:35] <Xark> ironbeard: I recommend making the RPi root partition on HDD too. Makes things much more reliable (as SD cards always eventually corrupt in my experience).
[7:35] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:35] <Xark> (so SD card is just used too boot - and read-only)
[7:35] <Xark> to*
[7:35] <Lartza> I've corrupted an HDD on a Pi too :P
[7:36] <Lartza> But it runs smoother with root on the HDD at least
[7:36] <Xark> Lartza: Sure, there is no "proof" against corruption, but SD cards generally suck as root filesystems.
[7:36] <Lartza> Yeah I've corrupted more SD root's than HDD root's, that is true also :D
[7:36] <Xark> I find Linux does pretty good even if power yanked etc.
[7:36] <Xark> (on HDD)
[7:37] <Lartza> It doesn't like Samba though
[7:37] <ironbeard> Xark, yeah I was following a tutorial to do that, and just keep the boot on the SD. Thanks for the heads up, though!
[7:37] <Lartza> I can't currently run a samba server on my Arch Pi, it freezes the system after a while
[7:37] <Lartza> That was what last time corrupted my HDD
[7:37] <Xark> Odd.
[7:37] <Lartza> I think it kernel panics with samba
[7:37] <Xark> Perhaps an Arch kernel issue on RPi?
[7:37] <Lartza> I've yet to hook up a serial console to see the actual error...
[7:38] <Lartza> Xark, Well it uses the rpi kernel but with some patches
[7:39] <Lartza> but nothing that should break samba
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[7:39] <Lartza> It isn't something that anyone at #archlinux-arm recognized immediately either, so it
[7:39] <Lartza> *so I need to get the crash messages
[7:40] <Xark> I see.
[7:40] <Xark> I don't use it heavily, but samba fileserver stuff has been fine for me.
[7:40] <Lartza> Client works fine but server not so much
[7:41] <Lartza> And yeah I didn't realize it at first but last time it was Samba that corrupted my HDD root
[7:41] <Xark> I guess you could try making a 2nd partition for samba shares if you suspect it.
[7:41] <Lartza> I reinstalled recently, set everything up, ran it for days, installed samba, system froze in no time :P
[7:42] <Lartza> Well I was sharing an USB HDD with Samba now
[7:42] <Xark> I don't that that is "normal"...
[7:42] <Xark> think^
[7:42] <Lartza> That probably prevented any corruption this time around, last install it was on the HDD
[7:43] <Lartza> Yeah Samba is sketchy at times, but not that sketchy normally :P
[7:45] <Xark> We have many terabytes of shares accessed continually at work and it is rock solid (but not using RasPis as servers...). :)
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[8:36] <Grine_> Is this a good channel to ask for tech help, or is there another channel for that?
[8:36] <Grine_> (rpi related obvs >.>)
[8:39] * skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:39] <Vyom> tech help is generic term.
[8:40] * fennesz (~fennesz@adsl- has joined #raspberrypi
[8:40] <Grine_> Heh, just wanted to make sure I wasn't asking in the totally wrong place -- some channels are big on that
[8:40] * fennesz (~fennesz@adsl- Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[8:40] <Grine_> More specifically, I'm having issues writing an image to my Pi's microSD card. I've tried a few things and I'm not sure how to proceed.
[8:40] <Vyom> From which platform you are trying? Linux or Windows?
[8:41] <Grine_> Linux, Mint specifically if that matters
[8:41] <Vyom> There's an inbuilt tool to write image to sd card, that I used.
[8:41] <Grine_> Hey, maybe that'll work better than screwing with the command line
[8:41] <Grine_> what's it called?
[8:42] <Vyom> That's what I am trying to recall. I am currently on windows.. so cant just look away.
[8:42] <Grine_> pfftlol wow, found it
[8:42] <Grine_> "USB Image Writer" perfect
[8:42] <Vyom> ok
[8:42] <Grine_> lemme try this and get back to you
[8:42] <Vyom> I used something like, the tool which shows all the disks and partitions
[8:42] <Vyom> there was an option inside it.
[8:43] <Grine_> BTW just so I don't shoot myself in the foot, I am going to use GParted to wipe the microSD card
[8:43] <Grine_> should I leave the whole thing as unallocated, or format it to a specific file system
[8:43] <Vyom> I think that's unncessary, since image write should take care of formatting.
[8:43] <Grine_> okay cool
[8:43] <Grine_> thanks
[8:44] <Grine_> ok, it's proceeding.
[8:44] <Grine_> Just so I'm on the right page -- if this succeeds, I should be able to browse the card's files, right?
[8:45] <Grine_> I have a few things I want to load onto it
[8:45] <Vyom> yes, there should be two partitions, one root and other some thing
[8:45] <Grine_> righto
[8:45] <Vyom> root partition should be smaller and you shouldn't write anything on it.
[8:45] <Vyom> Which distro are you writing
[8:45] <Grine_> Gotcha
[8:45] <Grine_> RetroPie
[8:45] <Vyom> When image is written on the sdcard, you should first run it on pi
[8:45] <Vyom> which expands the filesystem or something
[8:45] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[8:45] <Grine_> OK
[8:46] <Vyom> and "then" copy content to sd card using pc
[8:46] <Grine_> so don't try to mess with it on Linux first
[8:46] <Vyom> Yea, probably
[8:46] * Kamilion pops up
[8:46] <Grine_> What threw me off was the error message I got lol
[8:46] <Kamilion> grine: Mint and what kind of image file? .img?
[8:47] <Grine_> Kamilion: Correct
[8:47] <Kamilion> you have gnome-disks, right?
[8:47] <Grine_> But yeah, I got a "bad superblock" error message
[8:47] <Grine_> I'm unsure. Lemme go try to install it now.
[8:48] <Grine_> "gnome-disks" is the correct name? (So "sudo apt-get install gnome-disks"?)
[8:48] <Kamilion> i believe so
[8:48] <Kamilion> might be gnome-disk
[8:48] <Grine_> hm it's not showing up
[8:48] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/kVxLH/00cf2e4dcc.jpg
[8:48] <Grine_> lemme try singular
[8:48] <Vyom> Exactly, "Disks" is the tool which I was talking about, which can write image files to cards.
[8:48] <Kamilion> select the device from the left side, then click the hamburger button
[8:48] <Kamilion> "Restore Disk Image"
[8:49] <Grine_> Oh, Kamilion, I'm pretty sure Mint has that tool under a different name
[8:49] <Grine_> "USB Image Writer"
[8:49] <Kamilion> nah, that's different.
[8:49] <Grine_> Anyways, image successfully written according to this thing, let's see if this works
[8:49] <Vyom> It should.
[8:50] <Kamilion> more than likely, it's just a frontend for 'dd'.
[8:50] <Kamilion> gnome-disk-utility is the package name
[8:50] <Grine_> okay, linux noob question, the card isn't currently mounted (isn't showing up in my GUI), but I assume it's not safe for me to just yank it out
[8:50] <Vyom> Grine_ While your pi boots from it and does it thing, can I ask whats the source for that disto you are trying? I wanted something like a repository of different RP2 OSes with pros and cons.
[8:50] <Kamilion> Grine_: it's best to send the poweroff message with a mount tool
[8:50] <Vyom> Yes Grine_ First eject it
[8:51] <Grine_> hmmmmm
[8:51] <Grine_> it's not showing up in the list of removable drives, or on df
[8:51] <Vyom> just yank it out then.
[8:51] <Grine_> trying to mount it gives an error
[8:51] <Grine_> and ok
[8:52] <Grine_> one moment, gonna see if this thing boots now
[8:52] <Kamilion> Grine_: the gnome-disk-utility tool will send most devices into a low power state when you click the power-icon button in it.
[8:52] <Kamilion> which is not nessicarily the same as just plain unmounting it
[8:53] <Kamilion> but for the most part, umount should force the device to sync before it actually allows the umount to occur
[8:53] <Kamilion> otherwise it'll just throw a couldn't unmount error, and you'll have to figure out which process has an open file in that mount, usually using lsof.
[8:53] <Grine_> ah ok
[8:53] <Grine_> also, thank you both
[8:53] <Grine_> it booted perfectly
[8:54] <Kamilion> in general, the pi images will have a partition table at the very beginning
[8:54] <Kamilion> if you tried to restore it TO a partition instead of the whole device, that's normally the easiest way of shooting yourself in the foot.
[8:55] <Grine_> anyways, Vyom, RetroPie is Raspbian with a program called EmulationStation laid over it. Basically I'm using it to play abandonware games.
[8:55] <Kamilion> by the way, gnome-disk-utility will quite happily decompress disk images on the fly, if they've been compressed with .xz, .bz2, or .gz.
[8:55] <Grine_> Kamilion: Sold!
[8:55] <Vyom> Thanks Grine_
[8:55] <Kamilion> which is one of it's rather more useful hidden features
[8:56] <Grine_> Ah, you know what, it is built into Mint, it's just not the same thing I was using
[8:56] <Grine_> apt-get says I already have it
[8:56] <Kamilion> if you get tired of retropie, https://ubuntu-mate.org/raspberry-pi/lubuntu-15.10-desktop-armhf-raspberry-pi-2.img.bz2.torrent
[8:56] <Grine_> thanks though, I'm sure this'll be useful to know about
[8:56] <Kamilion> fresh off the presses from yesterday's 15.10 release. <3
[8:56] <Grine_> I only recently switched from Windows to Linux, so I'm still learning a lot
[8:56] <Grine_> and oooooooh
[8:57] <Kamilion> Thanks to the -mate guys adding support for lubuntu.
[8:57] <Grine_> that's cool
[8:57] <Kamilion> https://ubuntu-mate.org/raspberry-pi/
[8:57] <Kamilion> the normal MATE image is there.
[8:57] <Vyom> No Ubuntu port for me, if it can't take advantage of the GPU
[8:57] <Vyom> Browsing YT vids with browser still sucks.
[8:57] <Kamilion> which part, Vyom?
[8:57] <Grine_> I have to ask, what all do you two use your RPis for?
[8:57] <Kamilion> hardware accelerated video support is there.
[8:58] <Vyom> Grine_: I am trying to use my Pi2 as a general browsing + YT videos playback
[8:58] <Vyom> but if I dont use Kodi, YT vids lags a lot if played on browser.
[8:58] <Grine_> I'm using mine for games and as an always-on proxy to keep my mobile browsing secure (since I really, really don't trust my university's wifi from a security POV, and I especially don't trust random Starbucks wifi :P)
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[8:59] * Svardskampe (~Svardskam@185-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:59] <Kamilion> Grine_: I've got a pretty wide collection now. A Pi2, three odroid-w Pi1 clones, a first generation model b that's gotten somewhere, a cubieboard2, a beaglebone black, a whole COLLECTION of various arduinos, and a number of openwrt-flashable access points.
[8:59] <Grine_> Kamilion: my God, you're going to be the man behind the robot uprising
[8:59] <Kamilion> they find their way into anything I'm prototyping
[8:59] <Grine_> Vyom: That's cool!
[8:59] <Kamilion> pfft, no, I already did that
[9:00] <Kamilion> http://wiki.ros.org/ROS/Installation
[9:00] <Kamilion> Ubuntu (armhf) is the one you'd want for a pi.
[9:00] <Vyom> me?
[9:00] <Kamilion> yes, "That's Cool!" in reply to using it as a general browser/video player
[9:01] <Kamilion> I've been involved with ROS for a number of years now, and have been bouncing around from project to project
[9:02] <Kamilion> buddies with david crawley and his engineer-in-arms, stephen p. http://makezine.com/2013/05/19/ubiquity-robot-teams-12-tasks-of-hercules/
[9:02] <Vyom> You mean I can use the original full fledge Ubuntu on my RP2 (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi) ?
[9:02] <Grine_> Well define "full fledged"
[9:03] <Grine_> :P
[9:03] <Grine_> it's still a much weaker unit
[9:03] <Kamilion> I had experience with SLAM (Simultaious Location and Mapping) from my early with in ROS in ~2010
[9:03] <Vyom> A full desktop environment.
[9:03] <Grine_> but yeah you can, as far as I'm aware
[9:03] <Kamilion> Vyom: uh, sure.
[9:03] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-78-102-111-158.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:03] <Kamilion> that one's probably not quite up to date though
[9:03] <Vyom> I am going to try that after trying the Raspbian.
[9:03] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:03] <Kamilion> you'd wanna start with the MATE or lubuntu image
[9:03] <Kamilion> then apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[9:03] <Kamilion> but it won't run well
[9:03] <Vyom> I tried MATE yesterday. Discussed here in this channel, how I am facing laggin issues.
[9:03] <Kamilion> that's a GPU composited desktop, and there's not much in the way of 3d acceleration support.
[9:04] <Kamilion> which mate? 15.04 from april or 15.10 from yesterday?
[9:04] <Vyom> wait
[9:04] <Kamilion> er, 4 minutes past midnight, so two days ago.
[9:04] <Kamilion> Ubuntu 15.10, released october 22nd 2015.
[9:04] <Vyom> ubuntu-mate-15.04-desktop-armhf-raspberry-pi-2.img.bz2
[9:05] <Kamilion> no
[9:05] <Vyom> Then probably older one.
[9:05] <Kamilion> ubuntu-mate-15.10-desktop-armhf-raspberry-pi-2.img.bz2
[9:05] <Kamilion> did you run apt-get on it to update the packages?
[9:05] <Vyom> So you saying 15.10 have improvements?
[9:05] <Kamilion> if not, you were stuck with the package versions from april.
[9:05] <Vyom> Yes I did run update and dist-upgrade
[9:05] <Kamilion> how fast is your microsd?
[9:06] <Vyom> Didnt have an effect.
[9:06] <Vyom> Class 4
[9:06] <Kamilion> UHS1, class 10, or clas...
[9:06] <Kamilion> well, there's your problem right there.
[9:06] <Kamilion> 4MB/sec isn't quite good enough.
[9:06] <Vyom> I did discuss that here. you can check the logs. People suggested that Class 4 will only cause booting process to be slow. Not browsing.
[9:06] <Kamilion> class 10 == 10MB/sec
[9:06] <Kamilion> UHS1 == ~22MB/sec
[9:07] <Vyom> [17:20] <Vyom|Pi2> Could the reason for slowness be that I am running the pi on a Class 4 SD card?
[9:07] <Kamilion> really about 50MB/sec, but you don't really see too many cards that can sustain that, and the pi2 certainly can't.
[9:07] <Vyom> " it might slow the boot and initial stuff, but once everything is in RAM, that shouldn't matter"
[9:07] <Kamilion> that's not quite correct
[9:07] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-78-102-111-158.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[9:08] <Kamilion> every disk operation takes on average 50% more time to complete
[9:08] <Vyom> Hmm.. Thought so. I need to upgrade then.
[9:08] <Kamilion> it's true to a degree
[9:08] <Kamilion> once it's in memory, it's about as fast as it's gonna get
[9:08] <Vyom> I broke the Class 10 card (which came originally with my Pi2) when I tried to install the pi in a case.
[9:08] <Vyom> Broke the card in half :'(
[9:08] <Kamilion> ouch, but not too bad.
[9:08] <Kamilion> those 8GB cards are only worth about $5-6.
[9:08] <Vyom> Lession Learnt: Remove SD Card from Pi, before installing it in a case.
[9:09] <Kamilion> and at the prices they get in bulk? That's $3 down the hole.
[9:09] <Vyom> Yeah
[9:09] <Kamilion> chalk it up to experience
[9:09] <Vyom> Already did.
[9:09] <Grine_> Alright, back now
[9:09] <Grine_> Gonna configure this thing properly later, when I have more time (and an extra keyboard, once Amazon gets around to delivering that)
[9:10] <Kamilion> on another note, there were some really nice microsd adapters for the pi1 that didn't extend past the socket.
[9:10] <Grine_> but I have at least fixed this
[9:10] <Grine_> so thanks guys
[9:10] <Vyom> Alright Grine_ Long live our RPis :D
[9:10] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Built-In-Multi-Touch/dp/B005DKZTMG
[9:10] <Kamilion> that's the one I use
[9:10] <Vyom> I see that KB is a popular choice for RP users.
[9:10] <Kamilion> there's a newer one too
[9:10] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Built-In-Internet-Connected/dp/B014EUQOGK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
[9:10] <Kamilion> but I have no experience with it.
[9:11] <Vyom> I like the original design, with that design on mouse pad.
[9:11] <Kamilion> i also have the logitech "Couch mouse" associated with the same USB dongle.
[9:11] <Kamilion> *love* that thing
[9:11] <Kamilion> soon as you move your hand away, it goes inert
[9:12] <Kamilion> so it can fall all over and won't drag your cursor with it
[9:12] <Vyom> I cant picturize it.
[9:12] <Vyom> English is not my first language. :p
[9:12] <Kamilion> it's got a little antenna inside that can detect your hand
[9:12] <Kamilion> when your hand goes away, the power turns off
[9:13] <Kamilion> so if it falls off your couch, your leg, your table
[9:13] <Grine_> the keyboard I ordered is basically a TV remote sized keyboard and trackpad
[9:13] <Vyom> Nice power saving feature. And here is this wireless mouse from Dell I use.. which doesnt even have poweroff after certain time.
[9:13] <Kamilion> the cursor won't move cause your hand's not around it.
[9:13] <Kamilion> Grine_: oh, geez, I think I know the one. sec.
[9:13] <Grine_> which may not be ideal, but whatever, I used to use a keybo phone and it can't be much worse than that
[9:13] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Rii-mini-X1-Raspberry-KP-810-10LL/dp/B00I5SW8MC/
[9:13] <Kamilion> this one, right?
[9:13] <Kamilion> or one very similarly branded?
[9:13] <Grine_> yes
[9:13] <Kamilion> I have one.
[9:13] <Grine_> oh cool!
[9:14] <Kamilion> It's about three years old now.
[9:14] <Grine_> How good is it?
[9:14] <Kamilion> the 2.4Ghz model, not the bluetooth one
[9:14] <Grine_> Obviously decent if it lasted three years
[9:14] <Grine_> and ok
[9:14] <Grine_> yeah mine's the 2.4 ghz one too
[9:14] <Vyom> You guys in US (?), have so many options.
[9:14] <Grine_> Canada lol
[9:14] <Kamilion> it's... awkward to put your palm over the touchpad.
[9:15] <Kamilion> but for the occasional typing
[9:15] <Grine_> fair enough
[9:15] <Kamilion> it's fine
[9:15] <Grine_> yeah
[9:15] <Kamilion> there's a trick to it
[9:15] <Grine_> I don't plan on using my pi for anything seriously hardcore, so that's not too big a deal
[9:15] <Grine_> and what's that?
[9:15] <Kamilion> hold the FN button and click the alt button
[9:15] <Kamilion> and it will rotate the touchpad 90 degrees
[9:15] <Kamilion> so you can use it like a remote
[9:15] <Kamilion> right-hand only, unfortunately, due to the button placement.
[9:15] * doomlord (~textual@host81-155-67-16.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:16] <Grine_> that's cool, thanks for the tip
[9:16] <Grine_> and yeah that's okay (though man, it must suck to be left-handed :P)
[9:16] <Kamilion> the backlight is kinda weak
[9:16] <Kamilion> so i never really bothered turning it on
[9:16] <marjo> After I hooked my Back-UPS to my Raspberry Pi 2 model B with USB I keep getting messages like this: “Transfer to device 6 endpoint 0x1 frame 1435 failed - FIQ reported NYET. Data may have been lost.” I’ve tried adding dwc_otg.fiq_fsm_mask=0xF to /boot/config.txt, but it didn’t help. Any suggestions? As far as I can see the UPS is still connected, and apcupsd isn’t whining.
[9:16] <Kamilion> mine has a laser pointer too
[9:17] <Vyom> Always wondered.. whats the use of laser pointer in kbs? Gimmick?
[9:17] <Kamilion> marjo: have you tried tripping the UPS by pulling the cord from the wall?
[9:17] <Kamilion> Vyom: pointing at the screen in meetings
[9:17] <Kamilion> without having to change devices in your hand
[9:17] <Grine_> Vyom: playing with your cat while watching Netflix?
[9:17] * cave (~various@h081217073183.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:17] * vdamewood (~vdamewood@unaffiliated/vdamewood) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:17] <Vyom> lol Grine_ : I wish I had a cat
[9:17] <Vyom> But that seems legit.
[9:18] <marjo> Kamilion: “tripping”? I’ve read one shouldn’t to that: Pull the cord from the wall, it’ll upset the UPS :p
[9:18] <Kamilion> marjo: it will turn on the battery backup because it is no longer receiving AC, just like a power outage.
[9:19] <Kamilion> I don't think your little back-ups has a test button like my 2200kva rack back-ups 2200
[9:19] <marjo> Yeah, I now, but one shouldn’t unplug it from the wall because of the ground current.
[9:19] <Kamilion> if you have current running on your ground line, the game is already over and you should move
[9:19] <marjo> No, it doesn’t have a test button.
[9:19] * Kozuch (~Kozuch@78-80-181-179.tmcz.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:19] <Kamilion> there is something very wrong with your wiring in that case
[9:19] <Kamilion> ground should always be an isolated path direct to a ground conductor
[9:20] <Grine_> Kamilion, random question. Obviously yanking the power on my Pi is a bad idea, because it might corrupt the microSD card. But that means, if I have a power outage, the same thing is going to happen.
[9:20] <Grine_> What can I do about that, if anything?
[9:20] <Kamilion> Grine_: only if it's writing to the card at the time.
[9:20] <Kamilion> same goes with a hard disk. "Don't do that"
[9:20] <marjo> Kamilion: Sorry, I was using the wrong words… I’m no electrian nor using English as my first language.
[9:20] <Grine_> Ahhhhh ok. So if my Pi is idle, it's probably safe
[9:20] <Kamilion> marjo: no problem
[9:21] <marjo> Kamilion: The UPS works fine, but I’d like to fix the problem causing my kernel to whine.
[9:21] <Kamilion> marjo: in general, AC has 3 pins... Hot, Common, and ground. The current flows from hot to common, and should never be getting to ground, otherwise you have a "Ground fault".
[9:21] <Vyom> Grine_: Thats why I mostly use UPS to power the charger, or simple powerbank if Pi is to be used for less time.
[9:21] <Kamilion> which is very dangerous
[9:21] <marjo> Kamilion: I know, I know…
[9:22] <Grine_> Vyom: I should invest in something like that, since I'm lazy and don't want to rewrite my SD card all the time
[9:22] <Kamilion> Grine_: there's a number of ways to keep it running, from a cheap USB power bank *that can charge while being used* (lots can't), to plugging the power brick into a UPS battery backup supply
[9:22] <Grine_> Yeah, figured (and thanks for the tip, I'll look for a quality one)
[9:22] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Portable-Power-Micro-Cable/dp/B00LRK8HJ8/
[9:23] <Vyom> Or you can simply keep an image of your sd card, and restore in case card gets currupt. Linux have a handy one line command to make a backup image of your card.
[9:23] <Kamilion> This one works pretty well and will keep the pi running for about six hours
[9:23] <Grine_> I intend on keeping this thing up for the next year or more
[9:23] <Grine_> Kamilion: Awesome!
[9:24] <Kamilion> if you're willing to spend a bit more, and are intending on using the power bank on things other than the pi, like biking or camping, this one's much better quality.
[9:24] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Compact-20000mAh-Portable-Anker-PowerCore/dp/B00X5RV14Y/
[9:25] <Grine_> Nah, unlikely. My Pi is pretty much going to be a static setup
[9:25] <Grine_> and I don't live in a super volatile area, the worst power outages we get are from storms
[9:25] <Kamilion> that one'll recharge a phone like six times
[9:26] <Grine_> and if the power outage lasts more than six hours I'm probably more worried about making sure I can get home than secure internet browsing lol
[9:26] <Kamilion> but in general, Anker is a pretty good brand for USB power-related stuff.
[9:26] <Grine_> I'll keep that in mind
[9:26] <Grine_> Heh, I only recently got into electronics as a hobby, but it's pretty amazing what you can set up with a little know-how
[9:27] <Kamilion> http://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerPort-Charging-Multi-Port-Charger/dp/B00VH8ZW02/
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[9:27] <Kamilion> these are great stocking stuffers for christmas.
[9:28] <Kamilion> it's not a USB hub though, that's the only real shortcoming.
[9:28] <Vyom> Kamilion Do you have a blog or something that I can follow?
[9:28] <Kamilion> Vyom: No, I hang out here on freenode all day. Just highlight me.
[9:28] <Vyom> Hmm. Thanks.
[9:28] <Kamilion> other than that, my main project is here. https://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core
[9:29] <Kamilion> I just made a release last night :D https://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core/releases/tag/v0.8.0
[9:29] <Vyom> ok
[9:29] <Kamilion> it's for PC though, not pi.
[9:29] <Kamilion> so kind of unrelated to here.
[9:29] <Kamilion> but it makes a great server for pis
[9:30] <Vyom> Offtopic: You live in California :D
[9:30] <Vyom> I am jealous of you.. since you could have attented BTTF celebrations on the BTTF day, 21st Oct 2015. :(
[9:30] <Kamilion> I've gotten it to work on tiny little ATOM PCs http://www.amazon.com/VENSMILE-Computer-Baytrail-Quad-core-Bluetooth/dp/B00XC8FVGA/
[9:31] <Grine_> now we just need to find a USB flux capacitor
[9:31] <Vyom> :D
[9:31] <Kamilion> http://files.sllabs.com/files/images/biggest_kamikazi.png
[9:31] <Grine_> and we can take the Pi back in time
[9:31] <Kamilion> and it goes all the way up! here's a 40 core machine with 192GB of ram. :)
[9:31] <Grine_> whoa lmao
[9:31] <Kamilion> I was really flabbergasted when I pulled out my USB stick and fired that up
[9:32] <Grine_> because you never know when you'll need to run NASA code
[9:32] <Kamilion> nah, havn't touched that for like six years
[9:32] <Grine_> Hahaha
[9:32] <Kamilion> https://github.com/kamilion/filetasker
[9:32] <Kamilion> but it's there
[9:32] <Grine_> And I thought I was over-prepared
[9:33] <Kamilion> great stuff to learn BASH from
[9:33] <Kamilion> and all the crazy stuff you can do with it
[9:33] <Grine_> This summer, I should learn a programming language
[9:33] <Kamilion> https://github.com/kamilion/filetasker/blob/master/ft_common/ft_file_core.sh#L197
[9:33] <Kamilion> This one's my most esoterically evil
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[9:35] <Kamilion> Grine_: if you're serious about that, here. http://learnpythonthehardway.org/
[9:35] <Grine_> I've heard Python's a good starting point
[9:35] <Berg> it is
[9:36] <Kamilion> there's none better at the moment.
[9:36] <Kamilion> Java is on it's way out due to Oracle exerting Corporate Control over it, which was a change from how Sun Microsystems managed it
[9:36] <Kamilion> Ruby is clever and cool, but you can't really deploy with it
[9:36] <Kamilion> so it's great for rapid prototyping and toying with ideas
[9:36] * moei (~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:37] <Kamilion> but not so great for pushing them out to the world. There ARE some notable projects though, like redmine.
[9:37] <Kamilion> PHP is a minefield. It's popular, but you're gonna blow your leg off.
[9:37] <Berg> Python is good becaUSE ITS VERY POPULAR
[9:37] <Grine_> Hahaha
[9:37] <Grine_> Gotcha
[9:37] <Kamilion> Python, is right in the middle
[9:37] <Grine_> Enough power to be interesting, not enough to be ridiculously complex?
[9:37] <Kamilion> been around for a long time, it's older than java or javascript, or really, web browsers in general...
[9:38] <Berg> what do you intend to do with your new skill Grine_
[9:38] <Kamilion> It was written from the outset to be easy to work with by the programmer
[9:38] <Kamilion> not easy to work with by the machine
[9:38] <Kamilion> an important distinction
[9:38] <Kamilion> python is not the greatest for performance... but it has a nice feature: You can rewrite anything into C code if you need it to run fast, and just call it from python.
[9:39] <Grine_> Honestly I'm not sure. I just recently got into Linux (switched from Windows a couple months ago), and I just enjoy learning about computers as a hobby. I might set up scripts to automate basic tasks and the like, though, depending.
[9:39] <Kamilion> Otherwise, if you can do it on a computer, there's probably a python module for doing it. *Grin*
[9:39] <Berg> sounds like a good start
[9:39] <Kamilion> it's also one of the greater glue languages
[9:40] <Kamilion> need two things to talk to eachother, but they don't speak the same dialect?
[9:40] * SopaXT (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:40] <Berg> https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python
[9:40] <Kamilion> Little bit of python'll fix that.
[9:40] <Grine_> Heh, apparently I'm going to be busy over the next year then
[9:40] <Kamilion> Want to light your keyboard scroll-lock when you access the disk? A little bit of python'll fix that.
[9:40] <Kamilion> wanna do some web pages? Couple python modules, and a little bit of python'll fix that.
[9:41] <Kamilion> GUI apps? python.
[9:41] <Berg> i love web pages
[9:41] <Grine_> I plan on doing an Arch Linux install over Christmas, once school abates
[9:41] <Kamilion> 3D games? ... Not python.
[9:41] <Grine_> and LOL
[9:41] <Grine_> point taken
[9:41] <Kamilion> For that; go play with Unity3D and C#
[9:41] <Berg> I like how i can use it on raspberry pi
[9:41] <Kamilion> but it doesn't work too well on Pi2, you need the win10 IoT image
[9:41] <Kamilion> and the graphic performance isn't great yet
[9:41] <Kamilion> but it WORKS
[9:42] <Kamilion> and that's the important thing
[9:42] <Kamilion> and if you REALLY wanna learn programming, Unity3D's the way to go.
[9:42] <Berg> i had a dog called python but he got run over
[9:42] * Vyom heads over to try freshly installed Rasbian..
[9:43] <Berg> python by any other name would smell as sweet
[9:44] <Grine_> By the way, since Pi enthusiasts seem to generally be in the Linux crowd
[9:44] <Berg> manyt use microsoft
[9:44] <Grine_> Does anyone have any strong opinions on Arch v. Gentoo, for whatever reason?
[9:44] <Berg> and a few apples in the bunch
[9:44] <Grine_> and Berg: That's fair, I guess I'm projecting
[9:44] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/kVzAo/ffefb72acc.png
[9:44] <Grine_> and making poor assumptions, since Raspbian is obvs Linux, but that doesn't mean their main PC is
[9:45] <Kamilion> Gentoo kind of comes and goes
[9:45] <Berg> i used to use win OS but then i foun d linux i never looked back at win
[9:45] <Kamilion> sometimes developers give it love
[9:45] <Kamilion> sometimes it sits for weeks with nothing really happening
[9:45] <Kamilion> it had more users once, I used to use it around 2004
[9:45] <Grine_> Ahhh ok
[9:45] <Kamilion> after I got sick of Linux From Scratch
[9:45] <Kamilion> but Arch wasn't around back then
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[9:46] <Kamilion> Gentoo doesn't really do binary packages, either... at least, not to my knowledge.
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[9:46] <Grine_> Eeeeek, so everything from source all the time?
[9:46] <Kamilion> While Arch tends to mix both source-based builds, and packing them up and stuffing them into AUR
[9:46] <Kamilion> yeah, gentoo was a real pain to keep up to date
[9:46] <Kamilion> emerge -up world could take days
[9:47] <Berg> if you feel thats gona be too hard try a debian?
[9:47] <Kamilion> on a PC
[9:47] <Grine_> Yeah, while I definitely want to tinker with my system and design it as a DIY project, it's gotta be usable in a pinch too
[9:47] <Kamilion> other than that, there wasn't much different than debian, suse, or redhat, at the time.
[9:47] <Grine_> fair enough
[9:47] <Kamilion> as once you get past the basic components that Linux From Scratch walks you through
[9:47] <Kamilion> everything else is Applications
[9:48] <Grine_> Makes sense
[9:48] <Kamilion> but yeah, I fiddle around a lot. http://puu.sh/kVzAo/ffefb72acc.png I've got the unity inspector showing a nice little add/remove trigger button
[9:49] <Kamilion> the relatively compact code doing so is on the right.
[9:49] <Grine_> that's cool
[9:50] * GenteelBen (~BenOrigin@cpc70137-lutn12-2-0-cust564.9-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:51] <Grine_> Anyways, it's late in my time zone
[9:51] <Grine_> thanks for the chat -- ttyl!
[9:51] <Kamilion> o/
[9:52] * Grine_ (~Grine_@S0106bc4dfbcaa573.ed.shawcable.net) Quit (Quit: Watch out for landmines.)
[9:52] * Berg runs off to play more warzone2100
[9:52] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/kVzNE/0ecdaa3d86.jpg I tell ya though, doing 2d application development in 3d is so much easier
[9:52] <Kamilion> It really drives me nuts that linux app development can't be this trivial.
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[9:54] <Berg> the whole apps shop thing is beyond me
[9:54] <Berg> i dont own a phone by the way
[9:54] <Kamilion> it's beyond the godot dudes as well
[9:54] <Kamilion> https://github.com/okamstudio/godot/wiki <--- godot is a FOSS clone of unity
[9:55] <Kamilion> http://www.godotengine.org/projects/godot-engine
[9:55] <Berg> is this unity the same they used for the ubuntu desktop?
[9:55] <Kamilion> no
[9:55] <Kamilion> it's the real unity
[9:55] <Berg> good
[9:55] <Kamilion> the game engine, Unity3D
[9:55] <Berg> thats one thing i could never understaNF ABOUT UBUNUTU
[9:56] <Kamilion> been around for 10 years
[9:56] <Kamilion> way before xmir and unity
[9:56] <Kamilion> of course, it started out on OSX, and only got a windows version in 3.x
[9:56] <Berg> INTERTESTING
[9:56] <Kamilion> and now they've finally got the first experimental linux build of 5.1.0
[9:57] <Kamilion> so we can finally use the editor on linux PCs
[9:57] <Berg> ok tiume for war to start
[9:57] <Kamilion> (the engine itself has had linux support for years, we're only getting Editor support now)
[9:58] <Kamilion> and still won't do armhf builds for linux. Despite being able to do android armhf builds. Which is linux. BAFFLEING.
[9:58] <Kamilion> So that means it HAS an armhf gcc compiler, but refuses to use it.
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[10:04] <clever> Kamilion: its about headers and libs
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[10:04] <Kamilion> clever: oh, I know.
[10:04] <clever> even if it can run the code on an armhf, it needs to compile against the libs your linux system has
[10:04] * choki (~choki@unaffiliated/choki) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[10:04] <clever> though x86 linux has had support for ages
[10:04] <clever> so it cant be that hard to add arm linux
[10:04] <Kamilion> or statically compile them against a default set, which is what it currently does for amd64 builds
[10:05] <clever> ah
[10:05] <Kamilion> i think all it needs around to do that is the .a files
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[10:05] <clever> but in the case of the rpi, it has to link against the shim libs in the /userland repo on github
[10:05] <Kamilion> i don't think the original .c or .o output is required
[10:05] <clever> and every arm board will need its own libs
[10:06] <clever> the .a files are basicaly just zips of the .o files
[10:06] <Kamilion> yeah, cause every freaking ARM company has to pull a canonical and implment THEIR version just a little bit skewed from everyone else
[10:06] <clever> and you still need the .h to link to it
[10:06] * vdamewood (~vdamewood@unaffiliated/vdamewood) Quit (Quit: Life beckons.)
[10:06] <Kamilion> i'm not really a C guy, I just know enough to be dangerous.
[10:07] <clever> the .h file basicaly tells the compiler what a function is called, and what arguments it must be ran with
[10:07] <Kamilion> yeah, I know the headers have to be around, but how much of them; and do they need the kernel headers along with the libc headers
[10:08] <Kamilion> or just the libc headers and stuff like mesa
[10:08] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:08] <Kamilion> I don't *think* it's really tied to the kernel outside of using some of the type definitions from the kernel headers
[10:08] <clever> depends a lot on which libs they are using
[10:08] <Kamilion> lemme stab it with ldd and see
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[10:10] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/kVAmS/32186beda7.jpg
[10:10] <Kamilion> hm, it's dynamically linked.
[10:10] <Kamilion> and unity certainly had no idea that I'd be running it on 15.10, under gcc 5.1
[10:10] <Kamilion> says it built it for kernel 2.6.24
[10:11] <Kamilion> i guess glibc's ABI is stable enough to blindly link to libc.so.6 and friends.so.6
[10:12] <clever> yeah
[10:13] <Kamilion> cause I KNOW we were on libc.so.5 back when kernel 2.6.24 was around.
[10:14] <Kamilion> that was like... 2008?
[10:14] <clever> readelf will show more details
[10:15] <clever> readelf -d on ls says NEEDED Shared library: [libc.so.6]
[10:16] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/kVAzA/651d252c69.jpg
[10:16] <Kamilion> not sure if it's because this is a headless build or not
[10:16] <clever> that lists the names its actualy asking for, before ld looked them up
[10:17] <MY123> Rai-chan: ping
[10:17] <clever> Kamilion: oh yeah, and i was wondering what server motherboard support is for things like memory hotplug
[10:17] <Kamilion> thanks, didn't know that. Filed away into kamiknowledge
[10:17] <Kamilion> rare
[10:17] <clever> ah
[10:18] <Kamilion> CPU and memory hotplug are normally only found in big big HP servers
[10:18] <Kamilion> like the Superdome
[10:18] <Kamilion> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Superdome
[10:18] <clever> that is big.....
[10:18] * D-Boy (~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:18] <Kamilion> yeah, rack-sized on it's own.
[10:18] <Kamilion> the whole system is a rack-chassis.
[10:19] <Kamilion> http://sishardware.com/imgs/a/a/r/z/g/hp_a9837___60902_sx2000_superdome_cell_board_2_lgw.jpg
[10:19] <Kamilion> in general, you'll slide a blade module out for RAM changes
[10:19] <clever> and even then, i dont think the ram modules are hot-pluggable
[10:19] <clever> just an entire blade, cpu&all
[10:20] <Kamilion> yeah, but this is what's called a "Single System Image" beowulf cluster
[10:20] <Kamilion> to linux, it says it's a 1024 processor machine
[10:20] <clever> nice
[10:20] <Kamilion> if processor 903 needs to go away, it uses the hotplug framework to take the whole blade's worth of nodes down
[10:20] <clever> i was doing some hydra builds on my 'server', with 1gig of ram
[10:21] <clever> it took several hours
[10:21] <Kamilion> you pop the blade, swap the part, shove the blade back in, and those CPUs come back from 'sleep' state
[10:21] <clever> then i ran about the house, and stole the ECC ram from 3 other unused cases, got 4gig total now
[10:21] <clever> it finishes an eval in ~6mins
[10:21] <Kamilion> and linux will start scheduling work on them again
[10:21] <clever> nice
[10:22] <Kamilion> you can set a stack of pi2s up in a single-system-image configuration using MPI as well.
[10:22] <Kamilion> it's just goshawful slow over the 100mbit ethernet, hehe
[10:22] <clever> got more info?
[10:22] <clever> i'm already running my pi's with iscsi
[10:23] <Kamilion> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_r3z1jYHAc
[10:23] <Kamilion> that one's pi1s
[10:23] <Kamilion> someone else had a pi2 setup earlier this year
[10:23] <Kamilion> using this guy's pi1 setup
[10:23] <Gamah> clever: nix hydra?
[10:23] <clever> Gamah: yep
[10:23] <Gamah> clever: <3
[10:23] <clever> i have nixos running on a pair of pi1's
[10:24] <clever> with hydra building arm nixos
[10:24] <Kamilion> nixos?
[10:24] * EAgull0ne (~EAgull0ne@unaffiliated/eagull0ne) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:24] <Gamah> Please tell me you have docs/repos
[10:24] <clever> Gamah: its running relatively unmodified unstable right now
[10:24] <Gamah> I meant for the build config
[10:25] <clever> Kamilion: its an OS where every package gets installed to its own prefix, like /nix/store/3vqhsym4zk5z3hhf4fsw6mv9c8qbmxbm-mousepad-0.4.0/
[10:25] <Gamah> I assume you're not building on the pi...
[10:25] <Kamilion> ah, transactional packages.
[10:25] <clever> Gamah: yes and no, my 2 pi's are the main build cluster
[10:25] <Kamilion> something like that would require configuration management frontends
[10:25] <clever> but i do have a qemu-user setup to help speed things up, though it has a few bugs
[10:26] <clever> Kamilion: there is a system-env package, which has symlinks to the bin files for everything you want installed globaly
[10:26] <clever> and that is in the PATH
[10:26] <Gamah> I see... If I donated a pi2 and any necessary local efforts, would you be interested in getting that going?
[10:27] <Kamilion> oh, I see, it's using configuration management up front
[10:27] <clever> Gamah: part of the problem with qemu-user, is that it emulates an armv7, the same as the pi2
[10:27] <Gamah> Meaning?
[10:27] <clever> Gamah: and there is an impurity in nix itself, causing the package manager to default to armv7 if its built on v7
[10:27] <Gamah> Kamilion: http://nixos.org
[10:27] <clever> so when you get your os up and running, it downloads a v7 compiler and tries to build v7 packages
[10:27] <Kamilion> yeah, I'm there, looking at dingo
[10:27] <clever> on a v6
[10:28] <Kamilion> so you're building pi1 packages and running them on a pi2.
[10:28] <clever> Gamah: ldd is also broken under qemu-user, so it grabs the x86-64 libs for the initrd
[10:28] <Kamilion> vs building pi2-only arm7 packages
[10:28] * ssvb (~ssvb@85-76-180-116-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] <clever> Kamilion: pi1 packages on a pi1 right now, no pi2's in the house
[10:28] <Gamah> Hmmm...
[10:28] <Kamilion> or, no pi2 involved at all
[10:29] <clever> Gamah: cmake is also a little buggy under qemu-user, it sometimes hangs until i kill -sigchld
[10:29] <Gamah> But you could patch this in a pi branch... Assuming you've got it patched locally
[10:29] <clever> Gamah: http://hydra.earthtools.ca/steps
[10:29] * weemsledeux (~textual@unaffiliated/weems) Quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[10:29] <clever> .30 and .31 are the pi1's
[10:29] <clever> .15 is an 8 core desktop thats emulating an arm thru some patches to nix-daemon
[10:30] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:31] <Gamah> Lol so how do I help you help me get it on the pi2? I have a little old 2u 8core server that can be used for building and hosting if possible.
[10:31] <Kamilion> join his hydra as a buildbox, XD
[10:31] <clever> Gamah: the simplest way, is to just give me a way to ssh into the pi, and add my user to nix.trustedUsers
[10:32] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:32] <clever> then i can just flag your system as capable of doing v7 compiles
[10:32] * Kamilion looks at nixops
[10:32] <Gamah> clever: you want to build an image to drop on the SD first? Instead of starting from raspian?
[10:32] <clever> Gamah: you should be able to do that even with rasbian
[10:33] <clever> i'm using a gentoo machine as one of my x86 build servers
[10:33] <Gamah> My build server is nix.
[10:33] <clever> about the only requirement is that nix-store works over ssh
[10:33] <Gamah> Are you by chance on geekshed?
[10:33] <clever> nope
[10:34] <Gamah> Would you be opposed to connecting?
[10:34] <clever> got a link to it?
[10:34] <Gamah> irc.geekshed.net #gamahcode
[10:34] <clever> ah, one sec
[10:34] <Gamah> I'm way overtired now but I'd love to pick your brain later :)
[10:34] * aktomariel_2012 (~aktomarie@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:35] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:36] <Kamilion> Gamah / clever : Any good 'newbie' links for playing with nixos?
[10:36] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[10:36] * felipealmeida (~felipealm@189-25-22-234.user.veloxzone.com.br) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:36] <clever> Kamilion: the wiki has a lot of info
[10:37] <Kamilion> it has a manual
[10:37] <clever> Kamilion: https://nixos.org/wiki/NixOS_Filesystem_Notes for example
[10:37] <clever> that too
[10:37] <Kamilion> i just don't really wanna read it to play with it for a day
[10:37] <Gamah> Kamilion: not really, I'm a noob myself... Just happen to know one of the bigger contributors whose kind of been holding my hand through it...
[10:37] <Gamah> Except he's not interested in the pi...
[10:38] <clever> i found someone in the #nixos channel with an nvidia arm board, and he built a pi1 image on it
[10:38] <Kamilion> and that was enough to get it going?
[10:38] <clever> yep
[10:38] * felipealmeida (~felipealm@189-25-22-234.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:38] <clever> i also did some insanity with it
[10:39] <clever> i made a single micro-sd card, with both x86 and arm everything
[10:39] <clever> and it just boots, on both
[10:39] <Kamilion> Hm. Well. I run a small hosting operation; if y'all wanna publish some of that to the internet-at-large.
[10:40] <clever> using nix-copy-closure i was able to copy the entire x86-64 os into the micro-sd card
[10:40] <clever> and then i manualy ran grub install against the rpi card
[10:40] <Kamilion> and they don't conflict because the build artifact IDs are different
[10:40] <clever> yep
[10:40] <Kamilion> so they're different in /nix/store/
[10:40] <Kamilion> interesting.
[10:40] * djhworld (~djhworld@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:40] <clever> and with a bit of tinkering, i forced it to boot with the wrong kernel
[10:40] <clever> and then it was able to build the right kernel
[10:41] <Kamilion> http://www.gobolinux.org/ also does things differently, like nixos.
[10:41] <clever> and both co-existed
[10:41] <Gamah> Kamilion: aaannndddd you've surpassed my understanding :)
[10:41] <Kamilion> Gamah: the ARM folders and the x86 folders will have different names
[10:41] <Kamilion> so they won't stomp on eachother
[10:41] <Gamah> I just like it because it allows me to be extremely minimal and centralizes configuration.
[10:41] <Kamilion> how minimal is 'extremely minimal' ?
[10:42] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:42] <clever> [root@amd-nixos:~]# showsize /run/current-system
[10:42] <clever> 4254
[10:42] <Kamilion> I get my openwrt buildroot images down to about 4MB.
[10:42] <Gamah> Kamilion: xfce running with sub 200mb memory in use
[10:42] <clever> my current system profile has a total disk footprint of 4254mb
[10:42] <Kamilion> not a typo, four megabytes
[10:42] <clever> Kamilion: :O
[10:42] <Kamilion> openwrt now has pi2 support too!
[10:42] <clever> let me check my rpi profile
[10:43] <Kamilion> the problem is
[10:43] <clever> my 1st pi1 has a system profile size of 616mb
[10:43] <Kamilion> you can't generally get microsd cards that small anymore
[10:43] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:43] * [SLB] (~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:43] <clever> another major feature of nixos, is that it saves every system profile you make
[10:43] <clever> and lists the recent ones in grub
[10:43] <Gamah> Yes
[10:43] <Kamilion> like, I can't even search for 128MB microsd.... it just assumes I mean 128GB
[10:43] <clever> so you can rollback any system update
[10:43] <Gamah> And it's amazing when you fuck up
[10:43] <Gamah> Lol
[10:44] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:44] <Kamilion> http://core0.staticworld.net/images/idge/imported/imageapi/2014/08/20/15/slide_microsd-side-by-side_ovals-100383589-orig.jpg
[10:44] * [SLB] (~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:45] <clever> i still have some 128mb sd, but not micro
[10:45] <clever> oh yeah, where did that thread go...
[10:45] <Kamilion> heck, i can't really find microsd under 2GB anymore
[10:45] <Kamilion> there used to be 512MB ones and 1GB ones, but I just can't find them, even from the cheap chinasites
[10:45] <clever> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=108135&start=25
[10:45] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:46] <clever> this thread is about pure usb boot
[10:46] <Gamah> I remember when I was never going to need more than 30gb of disk, ever.
[10:46] <Kamilion> i know the GPU has some code to boot from a USB device if two SD pins are tied together
[10:47] <clever> yep
[10:47] <clever> it can also boot from NAND flash
[10:48] <Kamilion> hm, can't link to the individual posts
[10:48] <Gamah> Hmmm interesting
[10:48] <Kamilion> but Adun's pointer of whipping a SPI PROM up was a good idea.
[10:48] <clever> click the little page beside his name to link the post
[10:48] <clever> oh wait, thats only on the skin i have
[10:49] <clever> the default skin is just fugly,lol
[10:49] <clever> i dont think the gpu rom can load an SPI prom though, ever
[10:49] <Kamilion> it should
[10:50] <clever> the boot rom will load bootcode.bin, from either the 1st fat32 on an SD card, from NAND flash over SMI, or over usb (it enumerates as a usb slave and waits for a push)
[10:50] <Kamilion> I'm guessing it tries 4-bit SD protocol first then falls back to SPI single-bit
[10:50] <clever> ah, but most SPI chips i dont think will speak SD
[10:50] <clever> and youd loose the SD slot entirely
[10:50] <Kamilion> right
[10:50] <clever> bootcode.bin will run entirely from the L1 cache, without any dram
[10:50] * [SLB] (~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua) Quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt)
[10:51] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-78-102-111-158.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:51] <Kamilion> so it'd try to bang on it 4pin, get no response, try pin 1, get a response, and not fall back to SMI or USB
[10:51] <clever> its only job is to initialize the dram, and load start.elf, and perform any relocation in physical memory (fixing addresses using fixup.dat)
[10:51] <Kamilion> but you can't use the USB boot anyway; since the two data lines are connected to the hub IC
[10:51] <Kamilion> you'd have to cut those links or find a via
[10:51] <clever> yeah, it would only work on a model a
[10:51] <clever> there are pads on the back
[10:52] <clever> its designed so you can mount a pair of 0ohm resistors, to link it directly to the 1st usb port on a model a
[10:52] <clever> to bypass the hub
[10:52] <clever> then they just dont populate the hub chip
[10:52] <Kamilion> ah
[10:53] <Kamilion> r63, r64, and r65, it looks like, from staring at the board
[10:54] * Vyom (~Vyom@unaffiliated/vy0m) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:54] <clever> 36 and 37 on mine i think
[10:55] * Vyom (~Vyom@unaffiliated/vy0m) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:58] * vdamewood (~vdamewood@unaffiliated/vdamewood) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:58] <Kamilion> also, this isn't looking for a USB mass storage device; this is acting as a USB-DFU (without being DFU protocol)
[10:58] <clever> yep
[10:59] <clever> you would have to run them into a hub and a master pc that pushes out firmware
[10:59] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:59] <clever> and you loose the ethernet, so that master must then provide a network link over the same usb hub
[10:59] <Kamilion> or another pi
[10:59] <clever> or setup usb switching to swap it over
[10:59] <Kamilion> yeah, but RNDIS would probably be more efficient than the SMC ethernet
[11:00] * Vyom (~Vyom@unaffiliated/vy0m) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[11:00] <clever> just beware of all of the pi's funneling into one port thru the hubs
[11:00] <Kamilion> hehehe
[11:00] <Kamilion> "I'm a host now! ... Err, what the hell?"
[11:01] <clever> na, i mean bandwidth wise
[11:01] <Kamilion> ah, yeah.
[11:01] <clever> you cant just feed 32 pi's worth of bandwidth into a single host poer
[11:01] <clever> port*
[11:01] <Kamilion> only 400mbit to go around with the protocol overhead taken into account (8/10b wire encoding)
[11:02] <clever> i do have plans to implement ethernet over SMI, one of the gpio pin things
[11:02] <Kamilion> how fast is the SMI port?
[11:02] <clever> and some pages ive read hint that SMI and MII are the same
[11:02] <clever> i havent found any measurements yet
[11:02] <clever> but SMI is also the port it uses for NAND flash
[11:03] <Kamilion> oh, I think we've already had this conversation before
[11:03] <Kamilion> IIRC I was the one who pointed out SMI and MII are similar
[11:03] <clever> possibly
[11:03] <clever> and that reminds me, ive been running the 4.1.10 kernel for a while
[11:03] <clever> i frogot to test smi on it, lol
[11:03] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[11:04] * trumpetarn (~trumpetar@h88-129-226-41.dynamic.se.alltele.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:04] <Kamilion> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media-independent_interface
[11:04] * Kamilion remembers the MII connectors on sun workstations.. hehehe
[11:04] <Kamilion> "The data is clocked at 25 MHz to achieve 100 Mbit/s speed."
[11:05] <Kamilion> across a four-bit bus
[11:05] <clever> Kamilion: i have in my hands, the motherboard for a voxel q workstation
[11:05] * Vyom (~Vyom@unaffiliated/vy0m) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:05] <clever> lets see, the main cpu appears to be a CY7C601
[11:05] <Kamilion> wait, a CT workstation?
[11:05] <clever> yes
[11:06] <Kamilion> those are about 15 years old, I think
[11:06] <clever> it has an external cache, mmu, and ram manager
[11:06] <clever> the date codes on the chips say 1991
[11:06] <Kamilion> CY indicated cypress semiconductor
[11:06] <Kamilion> and that certainly looks like a cypress part number
[11:06] <clever> 9125 on the cpu, 9222 on the backplane expansion board
[11:07] <Kamilion> week 25, 1991 and week 22, 1992
[11:07] <Kamilion> neat!
[11:07] <clever> yep
[11:07] <Kamilion> http://incenter.medical.philips.com/doclib/enc/fetch/2000/4504/577242/577256/588723/5144873/5144488/5144684/VoxelQ_Workstation_R.4.1.1.pdf%3fnodeid%3d5149066%26vernum%3d-2
[11:07] <clever> let me fetch one of the expansion boards
[11:08] <Kamilion> looks like it's standard DICOM based
[11:08] * BenGrimm (UPP@cpe-70-119-236-74.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:08] * RNGESUS (~somestupi@173-23-220-189.client.mchsi.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:08] <clever> this expansion board is bigger then my laptop
[11:09] <clever> and its almost entirely covered in just 1 type of chip
[11:09] <Kamilion> https://wiki.wireshark.org/Protocols/dicom
[11:10] <clever> Kamilion: http://images.dotmed.com/cgi-bin/size.pl?t=2&i=1173824.jpg&a=3
[11:10] <clever> the thing on the left is the voxel q
[11:10] <clever> its typicaly in a different room
[11:10] <Kamilion> 80s style "full size PC" chassis, lol
[11:10] <clever> it does 2d image viewing and 3d rendering from the 2d slices
[11:10] <clever> the beast on the right size is the control console for the CT
[11:10] <Kamilion> back when you needed a custom GPU to do 3d slice viewing
[11:11] <Kamilion> which is pretty much what you're holding.
[11:11] * BenGrimm (UPP@cpe-70-119-236-74.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: .��UPP��.)
[11:11] <clever> i'm holding the voxel buffer
[11:11] * MonkehParade (~Fishy@unaffiliated/monkehparade) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:11] <clever> says so right on the edge
[11:11] <clever> there is a second card for the actual video output
[11:11] <Kamilion> since it's a medical device, you can usually get all kinds of specifications on them
[11:12] * BenGrimm (UPP@cpe-70-119-236-74.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:12] * ctrlshftn-away is now known as ctrlshftn
[11:12] <Kamilion> moreso than just the average FCC filing on some equipment
[11:12] <clever> let me see
[11:12] <Kamilion> as they have to go through some hoops to get certifications for safety, which includes some testing.
[11:12] <clever> this is the video board, clear RGB coax outputs
[11:12] <clever> and a bt463 right by them
[11:13] <clever> surrounded by 4 xilinx devices
[11:13] <Kamilion> and a lot of times medical devices are simple and straightforward
[11:13] <clever> XC2018
[11:13] <Kamilion> MOS XC2018?
[11:13] * Bray9082_ (~Bray90820@2604:2d80:800a:8264:8c7b:74d:20cd:ca6c) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:13] <clever> dont see a MOS on it
[11:13] <Kamilion> Sony?
[11:13] <clever> xilinx
[11:14] * Bray90820 (~Bray90820@2604:2d80:800a:8264:8c7b:74d:20cd:ca6c) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:14] <clever> http://i10.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/6a/bd/7ece_35.JPG nearly identical to this
[11:14] <Kamilion> http://datasheets.hypertriton.com/XC2000.pdf
[11:14] <clever> though these are PC84C
[11:14] * RNGESUS (~somestupi@173-23-220-189.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[11:14] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:15] <clever> msi4262-70z's completely plaster half of this board
[11:16] <clever> they are all SIP packages
[11:16] <clever> jammed in as densly as possible
[11:16] <Kamilion> sounds like the display memory
[11:16] <Kamilion> 70ns DRAM cells
[11:16] <clever> i think the xilinx devices are routing that ram into the bt463
[11:16] <clever> handling the refresh and breaking the address bus out
[11:17] <clever> not sure how the image data gets into it though
[11:17] <clever> but there is a tms34020agbl-32 off to the side
[11:18] <Kamilion> could find out by looking for the rom the FPGAs program themselves from
[11:18] <clever> they may be cpld, they are in sockets
[11:18] <clever> though i do see a DIP with a sticker nearby
[11:20] * skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:21] <Kamilion> 28 pin, starts with 27c?
[11:21] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[11:21] <Kamilion> could be an EPROM
[11:21] <clever> sticker covers it fully
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[11:21] <Kamilion> yeah, sounds like a UV erased EPROM
[11:21] <Kamilion> vs an eletrically erased EEPROM
[11:21] <clever> Kamilion: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/370am9nv425ca3f/AABXSXeKtY4MwU21s0qWSTLba?dl=0
[11:21] <clever> cant feel the window though
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[11:21] * skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:21] <clever> and its too tiny for a window
[11:22] <clever> pics 4&5, they took standard pc ram, soldered pins to it,and jammed it into sockets
[11:22] <clever> #1 is the video board
[11:22] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/kVCCg/0068538998.jpg
[11:23] <Kamilion> these have the highest chance of being rom chips
[11:23] <clever> yep
[11:23] <clever> i can tell just from the size, they should have a window
[11:23] <Kamilion> actually those are called "SIPP" ram, it was manufactured like that.
[11:24] <Kamilion> https://www.google.com/search?q=SIPP+DRAM&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch
[11:24] <clever> it did look like something done at a proper factory
[11:24] <clever> not by hand
[11:24] <Kamilion> pretty common back then
[11:24] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:25] * Megaf_ (~Megaf@unaffiliated/megaf) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[11:25] <clever> 2 more xilinx on the board with SIPP ram
[11:25] <Kamilion> http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/_memory/JRI-SIMM.jpg Here's some of the early SIMM memory on my 4MB atari ST
[11:25] <Kamilion> they had a less expensive SIPP kit too
[11:25] <clever> nothing with a window though
[11:26] <Kamilion> http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/memory.php
[11:26] * npt (~npt@c-73-185-140-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:26] <clever> ive heard stories about how you had to upgrade the ram in the floppy drive to clone certain anti-piracy floppies on the c64
[11:26] <Kamilion> yep.
[11:27] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:27] <Kamilion> but that was because the C64's 1541 disk drive had a more powerful CPU than the dang C64 did!
[11:27] <Kamilion> the c64 was a 6502, the 1541 disk drive was a 6510.
[11:27] <clever> i thought they where equal, but it lacked the buffer
[11:27] <Kamilion> the later 1581 drives had 128KB of memory themselves.
[11:27] <Xark> No, C64 was a 6510. Not sure about the drive.
[11:27] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:28] <clever> oh wow, all of the chips are labeled on the back side
[11:28] <Kamilion> Xark: I must be remembering backwards then
[11:28] <clever> address gen 0/1, and 2/3
[11:28] <Xark> 6510 was same die as 6502, just had PIO also mapped to 0.
[11:28] <clever> for the xilinx chips
[11:28] <Kamilion> Wasn't it clocked at 10Mhz instead of 4Mhz?
[11:28] <Xark> Kamilion: The disk drive?
[11:28] <clever> the c64 cpu was clocked at a multiple of the ntsc or pal refresh rate
[11:28] * Kamilion scratches head
[11:28] <clever> to make the gpu sync up to the cpu
[11:29] <Xark> Kamilion: The C64 was ~1Mhz (a tad more), the disk drive was faster, but not more than 2MHz IIRC.
[11:29] <Kamilion> 1.024Mhz for NTSC and 0.985Mhz for pal... huh.
[11:29] * Xark notes screen DMA stole some of those cycles
[11:30] <Kamilion> I coulda sworn that disk drive was slightly more powerful than it's host computer >.<
[11:30] <clever> from what i heard, the GPU was clocked on one edge and the CPU on the other edge
[11:30] <clever> so they each took a turn?
[11:30] * BeBored (BeBored@ip4d1431db.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:30] <Kamilion> uh, i dunno, that was before I really got into hardware, clever
[11:30] <Xark> Kamilion: I think that is trie (but not 64K in disk drive I don't think, but clocked faster).
[11:30] <Xark> true*
[11:30] <clever> the piracy hack, is simply because the disk drive lacked the buffer space to write 1 track in a single go
[11:30] <clever> and it was too slow to resume a track and make it fit
[11:30] <Kamilion> I started with the Amiga/ST era, and then later on with playstation modchips
[11:30] <clever> the game companies over-stuffed the tracks on purpose
[11:31] <Kamilion> as the duplication machines could handle it but the consumer drives would not
[11:31] <Xark> clever: Yep, at DataSoft we had a DOS that had 1 sector per track (readable only).
[11:31] <clever> i'm pretty sure the windows 95 install disks in the other room did the same on 1&1/4th
[11:31] <Kamilion> much like the playstation blackbottomed discs, or the system with the backwards spinning discs
[11:31] <clever> they are ~2mb each
[11:31] <clever> not the normal 1.44mb
[11:31] <Kamilion> I think that was either gamecube or dreamcast
[11:31] <Kamilion> 1.68MB, clever
[11:31] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[11:32] <Kamilion> I remember those.
[11:32] <Xark> clever: Yeah, I vaguely remember this used a bit. Linux could use higher density floppies too (if you were feeling lucky).
[11:32] <Kamilion> yeah, back in those days you could goof around with sectors per track and tracks per disk if were a wizard
[11:32] <Xark> ~1.7MB
[11:32] * shurizzle (~shurizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:32] <Kamilion> then there were the IBM special drives with 2.88MB
[11:33] <clever> from what i remember of x86 floppy drives, the motherboard was in 100% control
[11:33] <Kamilion> then the LS-120 SuperDisk came on the scene around the same time the Iomega Zip did
[11:33] <clever> including the low level formating of the bits on the disk
[11:33] <clever> so with the right motherboard (or possibly even drivers) you could read a c64 floppy on an x86 system
[11:33] <Kamilion> clever: I don't think that's the case, otherwise we wouldn't need the amiga catweasle controller for PCs
[11:33] <Xark> My favorite was the Starglider II game for Amiga and Atari ST. It shipped on the same floppy (with two boot sectors). Since the Amiga was double sided, then streamed digital music while it loaded on that system. :)
[11:34] <Xark> (Cool game too)
[11:34] <clever> Kamilion: x86 used a different low level format for its floppies, even though it shared the same disk for a while
[11:34] <Kamilion> I had starglider I, I think
[11:34] * shurizzle (~shurizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:34] <Kamilion> yeah, 720kb dos floppies, the atari could read
[11:34] <Kamilion> but not 1.44MB ones, despite the drive handling them
[11:34] <Xark> Kamilion: Used FAT even. :)
[11:34] <Kamilion> that was all a format-parsing issue
[11:34] <clever> the c64 put less data on the same sized disk
[11:34] <Kamilion> aye, GEM was quite advanced
[11:35] <Kamilion> amiga kicked it's tail though
[11:35] <Xark> Yep
[11:35] <Kamilion> full preemptive multitasking in 512KB of rom.
[11:35] <Kamilion> PWNED.
[11:35] <Kamilion> for all time.
[11:35] <clever> http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml
[11:35] <Xark> However, the DOS on Amiga was semi-retarded (seek city on floppies).
[11:35] <Kamilion> nothing else will ever do something even remotely as clever in that amount of memory again
[11:35] <clever> lets see, you have motor and drive select, for both disk a and b
[11:35] <clever> direction and step signals to control the motor
[11:36] <clever> and read/write data
[11:36] <Kamilion> the motor only runs at one rate though
[11:36] <Kamilion> that was the issue with the ST
[11:36] * Xark still has his developer pre-release Amiga 1000 (gathering dust...)
[11:36] <clever> i'm fairly certain that the motherboard will just read sectors till it passes sector x-1
[11:36] <clever> and then just write sector x out
[11:36] <Kamilion> IIRC the 1.44MB floppies are read/written at 300RPM
[11:36] <clever> none of the internal controller stuff that modern hdd and the c64 had
[11:36] <Kamilion> while the 720kb ones "Single density" were read/written at 150RPM
[11:37] <Kamilion> http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=842 <--- there's a catweasle
[11:37] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[11:37] * vdamewood (~vdamewood@unaffiliated/vdamewood) Quit (Quit: Life beckons.)
[11:37] <clever> ah
[11:38] <Xark> clever: IIRC internally the C64 disk drive was not too unlike Apple II. No controller chip (like PC and ST), just simple 6502 sync to read/write head (doing software "encoding").
[11:38] <clever> Xark: that sounds like the tape drive, not the floppy drive
[11:38] <clever> though ive heard stories about an actual disk drive, never seen one
[11:38] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:39] <Kamilion> clever: he's talking about the disk drive itself
[11:39] <clever> ah
[11:39] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:39] <Xark> clever: Tape drive was all C64 (or PET etc.) CPU. Disk drive had its own 6502 internally.
[11:39] <Kamilion> which had a serial cable link to the host PC
[11:39] <clever> yeah
[11:39] <clever> i believe the tape driver would also shut the GPU off, to stop DMA from stealing clock cycles and causing jitter
[11:39] <Xark> C64 got a bit more density than apple by varying the number of sectors per track.
[11:40] <clever> which is why the screen went all 1 color
[11:40] <Xark> (so outer tracks had more sectors than inner)
[11:40] * Kozuch (~Kozuch@78-80-181-179.tmcz.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:41] <Xark> clever: And same reason for disk fast loaders (with flashing screen etc.)
[11:41] * simcop2387 (~simcop238@p3m/member/simcop2387) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:41] <clever> ah
[11:41] <Xark> So it could "bit-bang" communication with drive faster (normally something pathetic like 2400 bps).
[11:41] <clever> and cmake keeps ahnging, this compile has been running for 2 hours now
[11:42] <clever> and it hasnt passed the configure stage, lol
[11:42] <Kamilion> i had the epyx fastloader cartridge
[11:42] * skylite (~skylite@5402F5C8.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:42] <clever> 13607 ? Sl 2:20 /nix/store/6lmqyaj2cijpw9qylyw6kll8vxzrngpq-qemu-user-arm-2.4.0/bin/qemu-arm /nix/store/jr0ams0qrhn1jf7myqqz9rmjlxawqppw-cmake-3.3.2/bin/cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DCMAKE_SKIP_BUILD_RPATH=ON -DCMAKE_INSTALL_NAME_DIR=/nix/store/0sh8slgxj
[11:42] <clever> 25582 ? Z 0:00 [make] <defunct>
[11:42] <Kamilion> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Epyx-fastload.jpg/800px-Epyx-fastload.jpg
[11:42] <Kamilion> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epyx_Fast_Load http://archive.org/stream/ahoy-magazine-17/Ahoy_17_May_1985#page/n31/mode/2up
[11:44] <Kamilion> oh, no wonder I had an epyx fast load cart
[11:44] <Kamilion> They were right nearby in Sunnyvale, California.
[11:44] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:44] <Kamilion> wouldn't be suprised if my father actually bought it right from them
[11:45] <clever> heh
[11:45] <clever> let me find the part# for something else ive got
[11:45] <Kamilion> I miss B&C computervisions
[11:45] <clever> ah, Trixell Pixium 4600
[11:45] <Kamilion> http://www.myatari.com/ <--- they're still around.
[11:45] <clever> i believe there is still one of those in the garage
[11:45] <Kamilion> but they moved out to the desert
[11:46] <clever> http://capmedplus.com/parts/RFRoom/100204_Trixell_Pixium_4600_Detector_for_Philips_Bucky_Duo_Digital_Diagnost_XRay/
[11:47] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:47] <Kamilion> whoa!
[11:47] <Kamilion> http://www.myatari.com/ataripor.txt
[11:47] <Kamilion> They have some refurbished atari portfolios for $100
[11:48] <npt> may I ask a question re: something non pi related, but that is well, this chan helped me a lot and i have a few invites for something that people are looking for and i don't want them to expire?
[11:48] <Kamilion> The one used in terminator 2 for 'hacking' the ATM, if you aren't familiar with the Atari Portfolio
[11:48] <Kamilion> I've always wanted one to use as a serial terminal... hehe
[11:48] <clever> heh
[11:48] <clever> one sec
[11:49] <npt> the scene with john connor on a bike at an ouside atm??
[11:49] <clever> Kamilion: http://gallery.earthtools.ca/index.py/2gig%20dcim/Photo_092708_005.jpg
[11:49] <clever> an old serial terminal i was one using
[11:49] <Kamilion> That seems kind of... dangerous.
[11:49] <clever> http://gallery.earthtools.ca/index.py/2gig%20dcim/Photo_092708_007.jpg
[11:49] <npt> looks very wyse 60
[11:49] <clever> its got plenty of clearance, lol
[11:50] <Kamilion> npt: yes, http://www8.pcmag.com/media/images/236778-terminator-2-judgment-day-1991.jpg?width=630
[11:50] <npt> ahh great i have to save that link
[11:50] * Encrypt (~Chuck@cpc72901-newt33-2-0-cust203.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:50] <Kamilion> http://www.ausretrogamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/AtariPortfolio_kit_2.png
[11:50] <npt> i used to LOVE that movie
[11:50] <Kamilion> that's the actual prop they used.
[11:50] * somis (~somis@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:51] <npt> nice
[11:51] <clever> Kamilion: http://gallery.earthtools.ca/index.py/pc's/Photo_090206_001.jpg
[11:52] <clever> a spread of laptops, all of them where once my dads work laptop
[11:52] <Kamilion> hey, a toshiba libretto!
[11:52] <npt> anyway, movie from irc haunt that has helped me out to others, but, i have 3 x oneplus two invites if anyone is in need. i already have my OP2
[11:52] <Kamilion> 2nd one :D
[11:52] <npt> oooh libretto
[11:52] <clever> never heard it called that before
[11:52] <npt> 100 and 110 were BOSS
[11:52] <clever> but its a t2100, and a color variant of it
[11:52] * MY123 (~IceChat9@unaffiliated/kill--9-1/x-8776976) Quit (Quit: Light travels faster then sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak)
[11:52] <npt> i used to have a 100, whichever the slower one was
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[11:53] <clever> the left middle one is grey scale, floppy drive,no sound card
[11:53] <clever> the right middle one is in COLOR!!, had a cd drive,and sound card
[11:53] <Kamilion> http://www.notebookreview.com/review/toshiba-libretto-100ct-mini-notebook-review/
[11:53] <clever> nope, not that
[11:53] <Kamilion> that's a joke review of them
[11:53] <npt> i spent so much lawn moving money on libretto and accesories
[11:54] <clever> Kamilion: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Toshiba_T2100_(6).JPG
[11:54] <clever> this one
[11:54] * turtlehat (~turtlehat@5CEC365.rev.sefiber.dk) Quit (Quit: gone)
[11:54] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:54] <Kamilion> yeah, that's almost identical to mine
[11:54] <Kamilion> had a 40MB drive, and a 386DX2/33, with a whole 8MB of ram!
[11:54] <clever> ive taken it apart tons of times
[11:55] <clever> ive even taken the lcd apart, layer by layer
[11:55] <Kamilion> i still want one of their last librettos
[11:55] <Kamilion> http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/08/toshiba-libretto-w105-review/
[11:55] <Kamilion> I have no idea what I'd do with it
[11:56] * zengrin (~zengrin@p7bc67268.kngwnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:56] <Kamilion> but as a historical item, it's somewhat important
[11:56] <Kamilion> the first keyboardless laptop.
[11:56] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:57] <clever> neat
[11:57] <Kamilion> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/09/librettow105post36.jpg
[11:57] <clever> when you said keyboardless, you reminded me of https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena
[11:57] <Kamilion> it's like a giant nintendo DS
[11:57] <clever> one of the models,includes a wireless keyboard in the bottom half of the laptop
[11:57] <Kamilion> novena?
[11:58] <Kamilion> that's not a laptop at all.
[11:58] <clever> you can just grab the keyboard and yank it out
[11:58] <clever> and it keeps working
[11:58] <Kamilion> bunnie's project is just that, a hackable project
[11:58] <Kamilion> though I would have killed for the heirloom wooden version.
[11:58] <clever> same
[11:58] <clever> thats the one with the rf keyboard
[11:58] <Kamilion> oh, hey, he finally put out the spare parts
[11:59] <clever> even just an injection molded variant would be nice
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[11:59] * Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:59] <Kamilion> haha, don't get your hopes up
[11:59] <Kamilion> not too many of bunnie's products have done well on the market
[11:59] * simcop2387 (simcop2387@p3m/member/simcop2387) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:00] <Kamilion> chumby failed miserably (but actually SOLD), then the NeTV flopped hard
[12:00] * njalk (~njalk@211.92-221-7.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:00] <Kamilion> and I don't think he's sold many novenas
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[12:01] <Kamilion> $550 is overly expensive for a freescale iMX and a $95 xilinx fpga.
[12:01] <Kamilion> mainly because of it's small production run
[12:01] * npt (~npt@c-73-185-140-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[12:03] <Kamilion> every time bunnie shows up at conventions though, the novena's always a crowdpleaser.
[12:03] <Kamilion> I think xobs carries one around too
[12:05] <clever> Kamilion: https://nixos.org/wiki/Terms_and_Definitions_in_Nix_Project
[12:05] <clever> oh, another very usefull page
[12:06] <Kamilion> http://www.bunniestudios.com/
[12:06] <clever> ive read his blog often
[12:06] <Kamilion> right back at you. Another very useful page.
[12:06] * Kamilion reading his article on sex at burning man right now
[12:07] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:08] <clever> lol
[12:10] * SopaXT (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:11] <clever> internaly, all nix packages are written in the nix language, which has lazy evaluation and all variables are immutable
[12:11] * Babaum (~Babaum@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:11] <Kamilion> clever: This might pique your interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ffx5eX39E
[12:11] <clever> Kamilion: the main package manager, is just an attribute set, containing things like firefox = { expression describing how to build it};
[12:12] <clever> with every single package in the set
[12:12] <Kamilion> ah, that IS helpful
[12:12] <clever> seen that video already
[12:12] <clever> was subbed before he got it,and watched as he took it apart week by week
[12:13] <Kamilion> ah
[12:13] <Kamilion> i've been subbed for a while but havn't been keeping up
[12:13] <clever> ive heard horror stories from my dad
[12:13] <clever> one xray room got flooded
[12:13] <clever> and the water got above the high voltage transformer, which was just open at the top
[12:13] <Kamilion> ooh.
[12:13] <clever> so there was water bubbles floating in the oil
[12:14] <Kamilion> the noise from that had to have been interesting.
[12:14] <clever> it must have been off at the time of the flooding
[12:14] <clever> but i think it was arcing inside the oil bath when they tried to repair it after cleaning up the mess
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[12:16] * aballier (~alexis@gentoo/developer/aballier) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:17] <clever> ah, that baggage xray machine is a bit different from what i'm used to
[12:17] <clever> most stuff has seperate transformer and tube
[12:20] * oxhak (~OxHaK@unaffiliated/oxhak) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:20] <clever> Kamilion: the package manager in nix will usualy import this file, and add it to the global scope: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/default.nix
[12:20] <clever> and that just imports the all-packages file
[12:21] <clever> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/top-level/all-packages.nix
[12:21] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:21] <clever> all-packages contains a function, that takes some arguments (lines 9 thru 31) and then returns an attribute set
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[12:43] <clever> Kamilion: heh, i changed the default for an option and caused something similar to a null pointer error
[12:43] <clever> but builds that didnt use the default, passed
[12:43] <clever> due to the lazy evaluation, those builds never tried to eval the default field
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[13:25] <Moonsilence> Hi! While running a python script and sending it to the background with Crtl+Z, why is the job status 'stopped' and the script therefore not running? It continues running only when I bring the job back to the foreground. Any advice?
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[13:27] <clever> Moonsilence: use 'bg' to make it into a background job that keeps running
[13:28] <clever> though if it attempts to read stdin, it will freeze and wait for you to foreground it to supply input
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[13:32] <Moonsilence> clever, thanks, but how do I use bg while the script is running in the foreground? I used 'python myloopscript.py', then watched it work for a while and then wanted to send it to the background with ctrl+z. Do you mean starting the script with 'bg python myloopscript.py'?
[13:33] <clever> no, do ctrl+z then run 'bg'
[13:33] <clever> that changes the most recent job from stopped to background
[13:34] <clever> you can run 'fg' at any time in the future to bring it back to the foreground for control
[13:35] <molgrum> is it safe to overclock like described here? https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi
[13:36] <clever> molgrum: as long as you dont touch the voltage settings, you cant harm the hardware
[13:36] <molgrum> clever: ok thanks
[13:36] <clever> it may crash if you push it too far, but you can just pop the SD card into another pc and turn the speed down and it will be as good as new
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[13:38] <molgrum> clever: ok, i'll try those settings then :)
[13:38] <molgrum> what does safe_mode_gpio=4 do?
[13:38] <clever> you can put a button on gpio4, which will make it ignore config.txt
[13:39] <clever> so you can boot it into a 'safe mode' to fix config.txt without a second pc
[13:39] <molgrum> aha
[13:39] <clever> it may also load a different kernel
[13:40] <molgrum> ok well, i have a usb dongle for SD-cards so i guess I won't need that
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[13:53] <juhaj> Anyone using osmc or openelec here? I'm having problems with both: they don't manage to turn off the screen, they just blank it
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[14:13] <Moonsilence> clever, is there a way to send a running python script to the background without it idling between the ctrl+z and bg commands? I don't want it to be interrupted.
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[14:14] <clever> dont make it start in the foreground to begin with
[14:14] <clever> python foo.py &
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[14:14] <Moonsilence> After starting the script, I want to watch it work for a while, then directly send it to background without interrupting it's work.
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[14:14] <Moonsilence> O.K.
[14:14] <clever> you can still see the output while its in the background
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[14:15] <Moonsilence> How?
[14:15] <Kamilion> Moonsilence: you might look at GNU screen, tmux, or the byobu frontend for either one.
[14:16] <clever> Moonsilence: backgrounded tasks just print to the terminal as they would normaly
[14:16] <clever> even if you have a shell open and waiting for a prompt
[14:16] <Moonsilence> Kamilion, I have heard of screen, but I want to learn the bare fundamentals of linux multitasking first (with jobs in bash) before trying something like screen.
[14:17] <clever> just run it with & at the end and you should see its output
[14:17] <clever> you can continue to use the shell while its spitting things out
[14:17] <Moonsilence> clever, I see. Another thing I wonder about is, that any running task is gone, after I close my putty window and re-connect to my pi.
[14:17] <clever> yeah, they will get a SIGHUP (hang-up) when you close the terminal
[14:18] <clever> and that generaly kills it
[14:18] <Kamilion> sshd is detecting the close event and hangs up the terminal.
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[14:18] <Kamilion> Screen will get around that.
[14:18] <Kamilion> tmux is a newer, friendlier screen.
[14:18] <Kamilion> byobu is a set of config scripts for screen, then later, tmux.
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[14:19] <Moonsilence> So a more general question: How do I run anything on a pi 24/7 without always leaving a putty window connected from my main computer?
[14:19] <clever> screen/tmux
[14:19] <Kamilion> using an initscript to start it up when the pi does, or using screen or tmux to keep the interactive session open.
[14:19] <Kamilion> generally for the former, you'd want to redirect the output into a log file somewhere.
[14:20] <Kamilion> for the latter, screen allows you to detach with Ctrl-A, d
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[14:20] <Kamilion> and tmux allows multiple virtual consoles
[14:20] <clever> screen also allows multiple sessions and windows
[14:20] <Moonsilence> You mean with alt+f1..f6?
[14:20] <Kamilion> not quite.
[14:21] <Kamilion> I know there's some hotkey bind like that, but only after you've opened a window
[14:21] <clever> in screen, its ctrl+a 0 thru ctrl+a 9 to access the first 10 windows
[14:21] * ThinkingofPython (~Thinkingo@ Quit (Quit: LOL 4 STRENGTH 4 STAM LEATHER BELT. UUUUGGGG LEVEL 18!)
[14:21] <clever> then ctrl+a '20 to just jump right to 20, so you can handle anything over 1 digit long
[14:22] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/kVJ5J/c44d3030c1.png
[14:22] <Kamilion> and byobu has a helpful line at the bottom indicating which windows are open.
[14:22] <clever> that can also be enabled in screen
[14:22] <Kamilion> that's part of screen, byobu just turns all that stuff on by default.
[14:23] <Kamilion> it's just some config scripts for screen and tmux.
[14:23] <clever> thats one of the first things i put in my screen config
[14:23] <Moonsilence> So screen does not come preinstalled? I am a bit surprised that it's not quite possible to just have a python script running all the time, with only the default means of the pi.
[14:23] <Kamilion> but what you won't find in screen or tmux is HELP
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[14:23] <Kamilion> Moonsilence: it's definitely possible, nano /etc/rc.local
[14:23] <Kamilion> XD
[14:23] <Kamilion> just, not the greatest idea.
[14:23] <clever> Kamilion: ctrl+a ? brings up a whole screen load of keybindings
[14:24] <Kamilion> and F9 brings up help.
[14:24] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/kVJb5/76597c8a50.png
[14:24] <clever> the only keystroke screen will eat is ctrl+a, so all other keys go thru un-altered
[14:24] <Kamilion> byobu is the bestest friend kitty ever had
[14:24] <Moonsilence> byobu = screen?
[14:24] <Kamilion> no
[14:25] <Moonsilence> something similar?
[14:25] <clever> too many hotkeys and it can be difficult to control whats inside it
[14:25] <Kamilion> byobu is a set of configurations and scripts for screen and tmux.
[14:25] <Kamilion> before version 5.0, it focused on screen
[14:25] <Kamilion> after version 5.0 it focused on tmux
[14:25] <clever> oh, that sounds neat
[14:25] <Kamilion> because tmux is replacing screen.
[14:25] <Kamilion> (on more and more user's systems)
[14:25] <Kamilion> incedentally, ubuntu-server comes with byobu, and has since 10.04, I think.
[14:26] <Kamilion> which is where I first ran into it.
[14:26] <Kamilion> it's spread from there.
[14:26] <Kamilion> it's in redhat and arch now, so it oughta been in debian/rasbian.
[14:26] <Kamilion> I havn't checked though.
[14:27] <clever> looks like its also in nixos
[14:27] <molgrum> when upgrading raspbian, should i change raspi.list AND collabora.list to jessie?
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[14:27] <clever> Kamilion: which reminds me, another neat feature of nixos, anybody can install any version of any app, it will only ever effect the user requesting it
[14:28] <clever> you dont need root to install things
[14:28] <Kamilion> give it a shot; worst case you'll get an error message from collabora.list
[14:28] <molgrum> right now i have only set raspi.list
[14:28] <Kamilion> apt-get update will complain if it won't work
[14:29] <molgrum> Kamilion: okay
[14:30] <molgrum> yeah, wheezy it is.. 404 :)
[14:30] <Moonsilence> Kamilion thanks for the screenshots. Do you use your pi mainly from a windows pc via putty?
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[14:31] <Kamilion> i use kitty
[14:31] <Kamilion> and x2go
[14:31] <clever> ive found windows is horid even as an ssh client
[14:31] <clever> after years of using screen, i can whip out the hotkeys faster then windows can handle them
[14:31] <Kamilion> http://www.9bis.net/kitty/ and http://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php
[14:31] <clever> it drops half of them and things go horribly wrong :P
[14:31] <ozzzy> windows works [shrug]
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[14:33] <Kamilion> it's quite nice to start winscp from as well
[14:33] <Moonsilence> Well my main purpose of my pi is to start learning linux, and I thought connecting to it via putty from my windows pc and using the commandline is the most minimalistic approach. I didn't want to just install Ubuntu on my PC and say 'I know linux'.
[14:34] <Kamilion> but x2go will run sshd aand sshfs along with the GUI, which is really nice. I don't have to use winscp much at all.
[14:34] <Kamilion> Moonsilence: uhh
[14:34] <Kamilion> have you seen lubuntu?
[14:35] <Kamilion> that'd probably fit a windows user best.
[14:35] <clever> Kamilion: ive noticed that winscp eats an abnormaly amount of cpu power, and my transfers are often cpu bound and slower then linux on the same hardware
[14:35] <ozzzy> install xming and you can run x apps via ssh on the windows desktop too
[14:35] <Kamilion> ozzzy: x2go integrates a much newer version of xming
[14:35] * molgrum (~molgrum@unaffiliated/molgrum) Quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in)
[14:35] <clever> windows just sucks in weird ways, lol
[14:35] <Kamilion> you shouldn't use xming unless you donate to straightrunning.
[14:35] <Kamilion> otherwise it's way way out of date.
[14:35] <ozzzy> it works
[14:36] <Kamilion> it's insecure.
[14:36] <ozzzy> that's ok... it doesn't go outside the lan
[14:36] <Kamilion> Things changed.
[14:36] <Kamilion> I can get in your lan now.
[14:36] <Kamilion> welcome to IPv6.
[14:36] <ozzzy> go for it
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[14:37] <clever> Kamilion: my gateway has a whitelist on it, so only ports ive allowed can go thru it, even on ipv6
[14:37] <Kamilion> that's half the point of IPv6... with that many IPs, so that each person can have their own 4 billion strong set of IPs, just like IPv4, you don't need NAT at all anymore. And midspan firewalls are not very useful for ipv6 currently.
[14:38] <Kamilion> clever: have you actually TESTED that?
[14:38] <Kamilion> my cisco cablemodem advertises the same
[14:38] <Kamilion> but fails miserably
[14:38] <Kamilion> to the point of not removing 1:1 IP mappings when it's asked to
[14:38] * Kamilion foreheadslaps
[14:39] <clever> Kamilion: my gateway is a linux desktop, running a tunnel endpoint
[14:39] <clever> so i have full control of it
[14:40] <Kamilion> https://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core/wiki/OpenWRT-15.05-VM-as-router
[14:40] <clever> the real router is also a linux system, running nixos, the ISP gear just sucked too much
[14:40] <Kamilion> I have quite deep control over my routing as well
[14:40] <Kamilion> using the off the shelf OpenWRT xen domu image.
[14:40] <clever> while reverse engineering my ISP gear to copy its config, i discovered something horible
[14:40] <clever> vlan 33 is BRIDGED into the LAN
[14:40] <clever> the ISP can add anything they want to vlan 33, and access the ipv4 lan
[14:40] <Kamilion> yeah, and?
[14:41] <clever> no firewall, no nat
[14:41] <ozzzy> no matter the issues at the end of the day I require Windows.... so I work around things
[14:41] <clever> that vlan 33 goes into the modem
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[14:41] <Kamilion> Half of the switches here are made by Accton, which has a known exploit, using, of all things, the f--kin thing's MAC address to calculate a master password.
[14:41] <clever> (facepalm)
[14:42] <clever> the dell laptops atleast use a sticker on the bottom, and an algo that was once private
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[14:42] <Kamilion> https://github.com/etherhack/etherhack-tools/blob/master/password/accton.pl
[14:43] <clever> related to actiontec any?
[14:43] <Kamilion> totally different company
[14:43] <clever> ah
[14:43] <Kamilion> Accton is an ODM
[14:43] <Kamilion> you don't see their names on products, only PCBs
[14:43] <clever> my garbage is by actiontec, it gets 6% packet loss and over 1 second ping time after ~5 months of uptime
[14:44] <clever> and even after copying the vlan config and routing tables, linux cant emulate it 100%
[14:44] <Kamilion> and they're perfecly happy to manufacture $110,000 riverbed packet inspection appliances and $20 crappy routers, under the same brand name.
[14:44] <clever> curl can reach certain sites in the subnet, but the STB hardware just gets ignored
[14:44] <juhaj> Anyone using osmc or openelec here? I'm having problems with both: they don't manage to turn off the screen, they just blank it
[14:44] <clever> like there was a firewall drop rule on it
[14:44] <clever> they are going to the identical ip+port
[14:45] <clever> Kamilion: lol
[14:45] <Kamilion> clever: likely because it was; and those IP TV systems are really insecure most of the time.
[14:45] <Kamilion> Comcast's xfinity used to have a nice hack
[14:45] <clever> ive already inspected it from a piracy viewpoint
[14:45] <Kamilion> any xbox 360 could have the xfinity app installed on it
[14:46] <clever> multicast rtp mpegts, with standard mpegts crypto
[14:46] <Kamilion> and at the time, you could take it to any *real* comcast cablemodem, and it'd work.
[14:46] <Kamilion> somehow the 360 would negotiate a private ipv6 tunnel with comcast, as long as it was over their coax
[14:46] <clever> the decryption software only works on a windows ce STB
[14:46] <clever> there are no other options
[14:46] <Kamilion> probably just off the shelf nagravision
[14:47] <clever> the STB does some http requests to an IIS server on while booting up, to load its own firmware
[14:47] <Kamilion> check out the satelite descrambling forums and you'll find quite a bit of kit like smartcard crypto key capture devices and emulators
[14:47] <clever> yet curl can still reach the server
[14:47] <clever> the problem i ran into, is that those packets are dropped with a linux router
[14:47] <clever> they are blocking the wrong one
[14:47] <Kamilion> lol
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[14:48] <clever> in theory, if i get the right smartcard, i can open the multicast stream and decrypt every channel
[14:48] <Kamilion> god, that almost sounds like bell's ineptness
[14:48] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[14:48] <clever> but every channel is on a different multicast group
[14:48] <Kamilion> in canada, there's a telecom company still running under the Bell name
[14:48] <Kamilion> bell atlantic, i think
[14:48] <clever> and they would never publish a csv file detailing that :P
[14:48] <clever> i'm on bell aliant :P
[14:48] <Kamilion> but their security is just idiotic
[14:48] <Kamilion> especally on the cellular side
[14:49] <clever> vlan 33 is part of the crazy 'security' ive found recently
[14:49] <Kamilion> but yeah, there's so many holes in consumer routers, it's hilarious
[14:49] <clever> i suspect that its to allow a police warrant to search every computer in a house, without having to be physicaly present
[14:49] <clever> i'm pretty sure only ISP techs can access vlan 33
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[14:50] <clever> and that the upstream routers map each 33 to a unique id, to keep all the LAN's isolated
[14:50] <Kamilion> well, anyone with access to the cablemodem headend
[14:50] <clever> yeah
[14:50] * Vyom (~Vyom@unaffiliated/vy0m) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[14:50] <clever> 33 is for hacking their customers, 34 is for internet(normal dhcp for a public ip)
[14:50] <Kamilion> I almost bet it's a loopback VLAN so they can access the modem's internal webpages without having to open the port on the external IP for management, or assign a management IP to the device.
[14:51] <clever> and 35 is for tv/multicast
[14:51] * Sisco_ (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco/x-4156292) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:51] <Kamilion> also, keep in mind, that may also be used for site to site links for buisnesses
[14:51] <clever> 35 has a ip, and a gateway, which dhcp doesnt advertise
[14:51] <clever> vlan 33 also shared broadcast packets, including dhcp
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[14:51] <clever> the dhcp servers would get into an argument
[14:52] <clever> after some research online, i discovered an ugly solution
[14:52] <clever> set the router to pppoe mode, then it stops using vlan 34 correctly
[14:52] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[14:52] <clever> vlan 35 keeps working somehow
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[14:53] <clever> stick a switch between the modem&router, and add a second router on vlan 34
[14:53] <clever> so you have 2 routers feeding into a single modem
[14:53] <clever> each using one vlan
[14:53] <Kamilion> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29091659-Bell-IPTV-Next-Phase <--- probably some of the posts in this thread.
[14:53] <clever> another minor problem i ran into
[14:54] <clever> your only allowed a single dhcp lease on the internet vlan
[14:54] <clever> if you forget to release on the actiontec, you have to clone the mac to get anything
[14:54] <Kamilion> lol
[14:54] <clever> but once you release the lease, linux can get its own one without cloning
[14:54] <Kamilion> so the actiontec is just a dumb ethernet to ethernet router
[14:54] <clever> not fully
[14:54] <Kamilion> and has nothing to do with the ONT where the media conversion takes place
[14:54] <clever> the actiontec does ~4 things
[14:55] <Kamilion> is MOCA one of them?
[14:55] <clever> first, it has a ethernet<->HPNA bridge (ethernet over coax)
[14:55] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:55] <clever> 2: it has plain old NAT between vlan 34 and the LAN
[14:55] <Kamilion> so yeah, it's a MOCA device.
[14:55] <clever> 3: it has a second NAT between vlan 35 and the LAN, for certain subnets, with a gateway hard-coded
[14:55] <clever> 4: it will bridge vlan 33 to the LAN for haxing
[14:56] <clever> the wifi is also useless, it can access the internet but not the LAN
[14:56] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:56] <Kamilion> ... sounds like they got those backwards then
[14:56] <Kamilion> and 33 should have gone to the wifi
[14:56] <clever> then the wifi stopped working
[14:56] <Kamilion> lol
[14:56] <clever> within the first week of use, i changed the dns server to so i could use a private search domain
[14:56] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@ Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:56] <Kamilion> ugh, 192.168 range
[14:57] <clever> thats another thing
[14:57] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@ewimax3.ewimax.mw) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:57] <clever> i tried changing it to, it said please wait
[14:57] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:57] <clever> and then never did anything, ever
[14:57] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:57] * Kamilion is hipster and uses 172.16.x :D
[14:57] <clever> they disabled that becuase vlan 35 runs on 10
[14:57] <clever> that reminds me
[14:57] <clever> one of the servers i rent in a datacenter went offline one day ~3 months ago
[14:57] <clever> i back-doored in with a VPN, and discovered it was on 172.16
[14:58] <Kamilion> gave itself an autoconfigured address, eh?
[14:58] <clever> the DHCP server in the datacenter gave it that address
[14:58] <clever> and a different gateway to allow internet access
[14:58] <Kamilion> er, sorry
[14:58] <clever> i was able to ARP it from another server
[14:58] <Kamilion> autoconfigured is
[14:58] <clever> it was on the same broadcast domain as the public IP's
[14:58] <clever> so they run public and private IP's on the same broadcast segment
[14:59] <clever> i have a feeling i can spoof anybody in the datacenter
[14:59] <Kamilion> again, fairly common for rack to rack communication.
[14:59] <Kamilion> and yes, you can.
[14:59] <clever> possibly even ARP spoof them
[14:59] <Kamilion> I can too.
[14:59] <Kamilion> but the routers carrying the packets won't lie about the path
[14:59] <clever> most of the datacenters i'm with are more strict
[14:59] <Kamilion> the datacenter doesn't provide the uplink
[14:59] <clever> could i poison the arp cache of the router, and steal all traffic for a neighbor?
[14:59] <Kamilion> the ISP does
[15:00] <Kamilion> most datacenters retain at least three or four ISP uplinks
[15:00] <clever> as long as the neighbor is on the same uplink
[15:00] <clever> this one is in costa rica, lol
[15:00] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-134-207-33.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
[15:00] <Kamilion> normally HE, Level 3, cogent, and the ex-worldcom breakup crew
[15:00] * zengrin (~zengrin@p7bc67268.kngwnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:00] <Kamilion> coresite has 19 different uplinks in my building, the Santa Clara datacenter.
[15:01] <clever> lol, nice
[15:01] <Kamilion> and they're just finishing off the second building
[15:01] <Kamilion> and knocking down other buildings in the lot to make a third and fourth
[15:01] <clever> Kamilion: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4727869623 my latest test when running with a nixos router
[15:02] * Sisco (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:02] <clever> because of the downstream, ive had to put gigabit switches everywhere and retire the old cisco 2900
[15:02] * Sisco (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:02] <Kamilion> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4772671299
[15:03] <clever> still pretty good
[15:03] <Kamilion> that's cross country.
[15:03] <clever> thouhg your ping is pretty bad
[15:03] <Kamilion> from california to chicago.
[15:03] <Kamilion> I have a 125Mbit/20Mbit plan.
[15:03] <clever> let me try forcing a distant server
[15:03] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] * hepukt4e (~hep@mail.okeanika.net.ua) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:04] <clever> ok, to san jose CA, i get 96ms, 175mbps, 50mbps
[15:04] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:05] <Kamilion> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4772676270
[15:05] <clever> only about 20mbit of downstream lost when crossing the continent
[15:05] <Kamilion> san jose to amsterdam.
[15:05] <clever> lol, ow
[15:05] <Kamilion> 50/20 ain't too bad I figure.
[15:05] <clever> let me see if i pick a really distant place
[15:06] <Kamilion> i could still sustain higher, the TCP window just isn't opening fast enough
[15:06] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] <clever> just because i can, tokyo!, 207ms, 109mbps, 19mbps
[15:07] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:07] <gordonDrogon> the world is getting faster - slowly....
[15:08] * bigx (~bigx@cam44-2-82-235-243-114.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[15:08] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:08] <clever> ignoring latency&crypto, id almost consider running iscsi over the web and getting 'infinite' disk space, lol
[15:08] <clever> i already have my raspberry pi's booting from iscsi
[15:08] <clever> booting from the cloud~
[15:08] <Kamilion> put it this way
[15:09] <Kamilion> it's about as fast as a Class 4 microsd.
[15:09] * darkbasic_ (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:09] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:09] <clever> most of the overhead ive had so far is cpu bottlenecks
[15:09] <clever> as long as the downstream is over 100mbit, the pi will be the problem
[15:10] <clever> (ignoring latency)
[15:10] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:10] <clever> 'I called tech support the ONT their modem only uses one of the ethernet ports (believe there is four or five). Typically this single ethernet cable goes to the actioncrap router.
[15:10] <clever> '
[15:10] <clever> lol, another shares my feelings
[15:11] <clever> actioncrap! :D
[15:11] * doomlord (~textual@host81-155-67-16.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:11] <clever> anyways, i should be getting to bed now, its 10am and i havent slept any
[15:14] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[15:15] * Noldorin (~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:15] <Kamilion> same
[15:16] * cyborg-one (~cyborg-on@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:16] <Kamilion> was just gonna say, 'i should probably go before it gets light out and it ceases to be night'
[15:17] <entertheshima> Hi
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[15:31] <gatisp> hello. After reading few online resources it is still not clear to me what exactly is inside the "kernel.img" on /boot partition for RPI devices.
[15:31] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:31] <gordonDrogon> how important is it that you know?
[15:32] <gatisp> i would say quite important
[15:32] * nidr0x (~nidr0x@nidr0x.ddns.jazztel.es) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:32] <gordonDrogon> ok - it's the Linux kernel.
[15:32] <gordonDrogon> nothing more, nothing less.
[15:32] <gatisp> usually running "file kernle.img"
[15:32] <gatisp> on linux kernel would return some info
[15:32] <gatisp> but on this file it just says "data"
[15:33] <gordonDrogon> its loaded into memory at boot time and it runs from then on.
[15:33] <gatisp> which makes me think that there is more than just a kernel
[15:33] <gordonDrogon> there's really nothing more to it than that.
[15:33] <mgottschlag> gatisp: it isn't one of the usual kernel image formats, it's a raw image which is loaded consecutively into memory
[15:33] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:34] <gatisp> raw image, interesting. will have to google about that
[15:35] <gordonDrogon> I'd save your time & energy.
[15:35] <mgottschlag> without the unpacker known from x86 zImage and similar, but with some small stub at the beginning which jumps to the real start point in the kernel
[15:35] <mgottschlag> +1
[15:35] <gordonDrogon> you're really not going to learn much from it.
[15:35] <Lartza> Why is this important?
[15:35] <cssko> Are you concerned about anything malicious or just curious?
[15:36] <mgottschlag> similar kernel formats exist for pretty much all other ARM boards where the bootloader is more stupid than GRUB (or even UBoot)
[15:36] <gatisp> just curious, i need it for my script
[15:36] * fluffet (~fluffet@h-109-92.a163.priv.bahnhof.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:36] <gordonDrogon> oy. some of us still use lilo ...
[15:36] <Lartza> Also
[15:36] <gatisp> which takes elinux image and converts it into over-the-air update ready sysroot
[15:36] <Lartza> [lartza@alarmpi ~]$ file /boot/kernel7.img
[15:36] <gatisp> it works fine for many other devices
[15:36] <gatisp> but fails for rpi
[15:36] <Lartza> /boot/kernel7.img: Linux kernel ARM boot executable zImage (little-endian)
[15:37] <gatisp> because in my script i run "file " on each file in boot dir
[15:37] <gatisp> to find a kernel image
[15:37] <gatisp> that is the main reason
[15:38] * bnw (~bnw@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:38] <Lartza> Why does... Raspbian(?) kernel image only return data?
[15:39] <gatisp> yeah, all other devices in my reference list are running u-boot, so that explains why there kernel is not used in raw format, based on what mgottaschlag said
[15:39] <mgottschlag> Lartza: simply because it doesn't have that well known linux image format
[15:39] * spvensko (~spvensko@unaffiliated/spvensko) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:39] <mgottschlag> uboot has uImage, which should also be recognized by uboot
[15:39] <mgottschlag> eh, by file
[15:39] <Lartza> but if it's on arch "Linux kernel ARM boot executable zImage (little-endian)"
[15:40] <mgottschlag> Lartza: ah, so for the same file? huh.
[15:40] <shauno_> curious, what platform are you running 'file' from?
[15:40] <Lartza> How is the kernel.img made?
[15:40] <Lartza> In raspbian?
[15:40] <Lartza> mkknlimg?
[15:41] <bnw> Hi, all. How can I tell what's managing my network in raspbian? I ran "ip a" and found there is 2 inet entry and one inet6. First inet is configured by me in interfaces. Don't know where does the second inet come from.
[15:41] <mgottschlag> it's some pi-specific script which concatenates a regular image with special bootstrap code or something like that
[15:41] <mgottschlag> at least that's what I remember
[15:41] <Moonsilence> Why does logfile of command 'python myscript.py > logfile' not contain the output of my script, for example from the print() statements?
[15:41] <mgottschlag> not sure whether that's still up-to date at all
[15:41] <Lartza> mgottschlag, But if it's https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-4.1.y/scripts/mkknlimg Arch uses that too
[15:42] <Lartza> And returns an identifier with 'file'
[15:42] <mgottschlag> ah, yeah
[15:42] * spvensko (~spvensko@unaffiliated/spvensko) Quit (Client Quit)
[15:42] <Lartza> I don't have a raspbian installation to test file but that's what the one guy said at least :P
[15:42] <mgottschlag> I guess the file version is just a bit smarter
[15:42] <bnw> First inet is "172.16.xxx" configured by me. Second inet is "169.254.xxx", which I have no idea where it comes from.
[15:43] <Lartza> That could be too
[15:43] <shauno_> 'file' will vary depending on what's provided in /usr/share/file/magic/. eg, my kernel.img is identified as an arm bootable kernel on my pi, but the same file is 'data' on my mac, because the definitions are out of date
[15:44] <Lartza> Also arch uses coreutils, debian file is different?
[15:45] <Lartza> nvm...
[15:45] <Lartza> coreutils doesn't include file :P
[15:45] * linkedinyou (~linkediny@unaffiliated/zacdev) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:45] <gatisp> shauno_, is it possible to update /usr/share/file/magic (whatever that is) on linux?
[15:45] <Lartza> But Arch uses a newer file version than Debian
[15:46] * Kozuch (~Kozuch@78-80-181-179.tmcz.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:46] <Lartza> gatisp, Update file
[15:46] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:46] <Lartza> It's an actual software with updates
[15:47] <gatisp> ah, so that dir is populated by package that contains file, got it
[15:47] <entertheshima> For a group of several wanting to store and share files privately, would it be worth setting up a Pi cloud server or better to just purchase an off the shelf NAS?
[15:47] * darkbasic_ (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:47] <nid0> depends on your performance needs
[15:48] * darkbasic (~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:48] <Lartza> gatisp, Yes, https://packages.debian.org/sid/file
[15:48] <nid0> if you have a relatively small number of files that don't need blazing transfer speeds, a pi is a great cheap option
[15:48] <Lartza> And if there's even a hint that you want to do something more exotic at the same time
[15:49] <Lartza> That a NAS can't handle then for sure
[15:49] <nid0> but, you can get a basic nas for not a whole lot more than a pi
[15:49] <entertheshima> This is what I'm thinking.
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[15:49] * qubitnerd (~neutrino@unaffiliated/electron/x-8286743) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:49] <entertheshima> Something more exotic sounds nice.
[15:49] <nid0> comes down to whether access speeds are important > if yes get a nas, and what flexibility you want > if lots get a pi
[15:50] <Moonsilence> clever, I found what I needed afterall: nohup
[15:50] <nid0> if you want access speeds and flexibility, you need either a more powerful microserver or a more expensive nas
[15:50] <Moonsilence> now my python loop can run 24/7 even when I close putty.
[15:51] <gatisp> while i am here, I had anther question. What are the reasons for people wanting to run u-boot on rpi? What benefit does it add? It seems like adding u-boot makes boot process from 3-stage boot to 4-stage boot. One reason i want to do it because then i can add custom bootscript. Is there other reasons?
[15:52] <entertheshima> Nice one. I might require something faster really. I'd rather do something more exciting with a Pi.
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[16:11] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:11] <sharperguy> How can I tell if my system is connected using DHCP or a static ip?
[16:12] * fengling (~fengling@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:14] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[16:30] <Lartza> He was quick...
[16:32] * cessor (~cessor@75-131-209-49.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:31] <shoshy> hi, yesterday for unknown reason and working good for the past 2 months, stopped recognizing the network. I found myself re-installing raspbian , now with jessie. Still can't get network working.. tried following online help... my ip is 169.254.X.X ..
[18:32] <shoshy> which is the virtual server ip. meaning nothing.
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[18:33] <fluffet> if you run ifconfig in the terminal do you have any interface with a local ip?
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[18:34] <shoshy> fluffet: i ran it on the pi what am im looking for exactly?
[18:35] <shoshy> i see : eth0 ... Link .... lo Link ... wlan0 ... Link ..
[18:35] <shoshy> i see inet addr:
[18:35] <fluffet> alright, do any of them have a inet addr with 192.168.something.something?
[18:35] * Sisco (~Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:35] <shoshy> nope
[18:35] * bnw (~bnw@ Quit ()
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[18:36] <fluffet> alright well then maybe there's your problem, your pi is not connected to your LAN
[18:36] <shoshy> fluffet: what do you mean? it's connected to my computer
[18:37] <shoshy> fluffet: it worked for 2 months like that...
[18:37] <shoshy> it had an 192.168.X.X ip
[18:37] <fluffet> hm
[18:37] <shoshy> i shut it down it was fine, yesterday when i opened it back up, nothing.
[18:37] <shoshy> no network..
[18:37] <shoshy> changed lan cables...
[18:37] <shoshy> nothing
[18:38] <fluffet> i've never connected raspberry --> computer --> internet before
[18:39] <fluffet> so it's hard to tell if it's your computer or the raspberry
[18:40] <shoshy> fluffet: thanks anyway!
[18:40] <shoshy> its the pi..
[18:40] <shoshy> 100%
[18:40] <shoshy> buggy...
[18:40] <shoshy> haven't done anything... :/
[18:40] <shoshy> so wierd
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[18:43] <fluffet> well, my guess is configure an interface towards the address your computer tries to give the raspberry
[18:47] <shoshy> yes!!! was able to solve it!
[18:48] <shoshy> fluffet: so frustrating!!!
[18:48] <fluffet> sweet, what was the problem?
[18:49] <shoshy> fluffet: i've added to /etc/dhcpcd.config 's end, the configurations for static ip addresses
[18:49] <shoshy> so happy right now...
[18:50] <shoshy> going to reboot to see its actually working.. again
[18:50] * djhworld (~djhworld@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:51] <shoshy> it does
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[18:56] <gordonDrogon> if all you want is a static IP, then can't you edit /etc/network/interfaces ?
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[18:59] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: question is edit with what? and my issue was that it didn't recognize my network.
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[19:06] <shoshy> wierd thing is: i was able to surf the web in the pi, via the lan connection (still connected ) but now it stopped .
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[19:11] <gordonDrogon> edit with sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces
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[19:12] <gordonDrogon> however I've no idea if jessie is doing networking differently to wheezy.
[19:12] <gordonDrogon> I'm not running jessie (no real plans to either - at least this year)
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[19:14] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: i meant edit with what commands?
[19:14] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: its bad! wheezy was much better
[19:15] <shoshy> i had no plans either..
[19:15] <gordonDrogon> ah, ok - hang on..
[19:16] <gordonDrogon> see http://unicorn.drogon.net/interfaces.txt
[19:16] <gordonDrogon> that's got both a static ethernet and wifi configs in it.
[19:16] <gordonDrogon> obviously the IP addresses will be different..
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[19:17] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: thanks i might give that a try if it wont work now
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[19:21] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: giving it a go... i have no clue why but i was able to connect via lan, but no internet sharing even though i am sharing it 100%.
[19:22] <shoshy> so with the settings you sent - it doesnt work. no ip is assigned.
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[19:24] <gordonDrogon> did you do a reboot or ifdown ; ifup ?
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[19:24] <shoshy> yep
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[19:25] <shoshy> 100% the adding of static configurations to etc/dhcpcd.conf is what works.
[19:26] <gordonDrogon> I presume you have local keyboard & screen?
[19:26] <shoshy> i do
[19:26] <gordonDrogon> sudo ifdown -a ; sudo ifup -a
[19:26] <gordonDrogon> might give a clue, but if the /etc/dhcp.... works, then i'd leave it.
[19:27] <shoshy> gave me /etc/network/interfaces:13: unknown method ifdown: couldn't read interfaces file "/etc/network/interfaces" /etc/network/interfaces:13: unknown method ifup: couldn't read interfaces file "/etc/network/interfaces"
[19:27] * jlf (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:27] <niston> is there a way to blueray on a raspi2 ?
[19:27] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@h215.106.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[19:27] <shoshy> ok.. there was a typo
[19:27] <niston> preferrably a legal way?
[19:27] <shoshy> trying again then :)
[19:28] <gordonDrogon> shoshy, sounds like the file is missing. most odd, but maybe jessie doesn't have it..
[19:28] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: its there, there was a typo. retrying
[19:29] <gordonDrogon> ok
[19:30] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: btw they have a comment there in the top that says
[19:30] <shoshy> # Please note that this file is written to be used with dhcpcd. # For static IP, consult /etc/dhcpcd.conf and 'man dhcpcd.conf'.
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[19:34] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: ok i've changed, rebooted and was able to login with the static, but i still dont have internet
[19:35] <Encrypt> Hello there o/
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[19:36] <Encrypt> I've found something useful in order to prevent SSH bruteforce attempts
[19:36] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[19:36] <Encrypt> Because I'm tired of Failed attemps, although I have set a strict fail2ban policy
[19:37] <Encrypt> Here it is: http://www.axllent.org/docs/view/ssh-geoip/
[19:37] <Encrypt> This script checks the location of each connection before allowing or denying it
[19:37] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: btw your command returns: ioctl[SIOCSIWAP]: Operation not permitted ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Invalid argument ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Invalid argument RTNETLINK answers: File exists Failed to bring up wlan0.
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> shoshy, hm. I typically don't have dhcpd (nor ifplug) installed on any of my Linux boxes - usualyl the first things I purge...
[19:37] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: jessie comes with it built in
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> shoshy, I'd sort of expected you to not put the wlan stuff in ...
[19:37] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: that's the thing that causes all the problem...
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> wheezy has them builtin too, but I apt-get purge them.
[19:38] <shoshy> gordonDrogon: but i also need the wlan to work :/
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> Encrypt, change the ssh port to something else. it'll stop the script kiddies filling up your logs...
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> shoshy, ah..
[19:39] <Encrypt> gordonDrogon, The script looks smooth :D
[19:39] <gordonDrogon> Encrypt, personally I don't bother - I have a few servers with open ssh ports on 22...
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[19:50] <Dane> evening
[19:50] <Dane> anyone up for a question about cloning images?
[19:50] <Dane> im having some weird issues regarding cloning
[19:51] <gordonDrogon> what sort of issues?
[19:51] <Dane> i have a raspberry 2 installed with mysql server and some configs etc
[19:51] <Dane> and i would like to able to clone it
[19:52] <Dane> so i did with dd
[19:52] <Dane> wrote img wrote it back etc
[19:52] <Dane> system boots,but gives errors on boot that it cant start mysql server and ssh
[19:52] <Dane> also it gives error in /var/lib/dpkg
[19:52] <Dane> but the system itself boots fine
[19:52] <gordonDrogon> I presume you halted it nicely before taking the SD out to read in another Linux box?
[19:53] <Dane> so i thought,maybe the sd card is borked,so tried a few others,same thing
[19:53] <Dane> yeah
[19:53] <Dane> i did
[19:53] <Dane> the other sd also works fine
[19:53] * TyrfingMjolnir (~Tyrfing@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:53] <Dane> on my mac i tried it aswell
[19:53] <Encrypt> Dane, Which command did you run?
[19:53] <Dane> and nicely unmounted it etc
[19:53] <Dane> lemme check
[19:53] <Dane> i followed instructions
[19:53] <Encrypt> Ok
[19:54] <gordonDrogon> you want to make sure it really doesn't auto-mount on the system you're reading the image into.
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[19:55] <Dane> sudo dd if=/dev/rdisk1 of=~/Desktop/pi.img bs=1m
[19:55] <Dane> for the backup
[19:56] <gordonDrogon> you could always re-read the image written into another file and use cmp on them...
[19:56] * TyrfingMjolnir (~Tyrfing@52.90-149-171.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:56] <Dane> whats cmp
[19:57] * MiB (~MiB@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:57] <gordonDrogon> a CoMPare program; cmp file1 file2
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[19:57] * MiB (~MiB@ Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[19:58] <Dane> yeah
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[20:03] <Dane> so you guys think something messed up with the mounting/unmounting?
[20:07] * martinkl_ (~martinkle@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[20:08] <divx118> Just wondered anything better in using jessie over wheezie better perfomance or other things on a headless system? Going to start fresh. Things I want to use are lirc, domoticz, MPD server with bluetooth audio streaming. Default system will be raspbian jessie or wheezy.
[20:09] * benny- (~benny@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[20:12] * shurizzle (~shurizzle@unaffiliated/shurizzle) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:14] <GuidovanPossum> what version of pi?
[20:14] * ngladitz (~ngladitz@unaffiliated/ngladitz) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[20:15] <divx118> GuidovanPossum, Oh sorry forgot to mention the B+
[20:15] <divx118> The pi not the pi 2
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[20:16] <GuidovanPossum> I've only run wheezy on a B+ and then jessie on rpi2
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[20:17] <GuidovanPossum> so I couldn't say for sure how jessie'd be on a B+ but it runs great on my rpi2
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[20:18] <Encrypt> Unfortunately I reinstalled my Pi last September and Jessie wasn't available :(
[20:18] <divx118> Yep, I guess I go with wheezy again. I don't think jessie can offer me more. Wheezy was always rock solid for me.
[20:19] <Encrypt> divx118, Well, installing Jessie is a better choice I guess, it's better to run a stable version and not an oldstable one
[20:20] * devyani7 (devyani7@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-nbduyrevcqgpxboo) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:21] <divx118> Encrypt, Well you got a point, see if I can find some known issues for jessie. If not maybe jessie is the way to go.
[20:22] * MiB (~MiB@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:22] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:23] * Macuser (~textual@unaffiliated/macuser) Quit (Client Quit)
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[20:24] * MiB (~MiB@ Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[20:24] * GenteelBen (~BenOrigin@cpc70137-lutn12-2-0-cust564.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
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[20:24] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:25] * ctrlshftn is now known as ctrlshftn-away
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[20:28] * Imaginativeone (~Imaginati@pool-173-66-94-87.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[20:28] * Jinx (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:31] * Imaginativeone (~Imaginati@pool-173-66-94-87.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:34] * Jinx (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[20:35] * cnd_ (~cnd@NYUFWA-GUESTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] * dj_pi (~dj@c-73-191-212-56.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:37] <GuidovanPossum> I got lucky and just happened to get my copy hours after Jessie came out, the dl took over 4 hours at the local library and had to have the librarian kick a lady off of it to copy to usb minutes before they closed, very dramatic :-)
[20:41] * MiB (~MiB@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:41] * odin_ (~Odin@cpc16-soli5-2-0-cust129.perr.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[20:43] * Encrypt (~Chuck@cpc72901-newt33-2-0-cust203.19-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[20:44] * githogori (~githogori@c-73-222-69-223.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] * Cruz4prez (~pppingme@unaffiliated/pppingme) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[20:48] * relyt (~relyt@205-178-66-212.c3-0.snb-ubr1.chi-snb.il.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:50] <cnd_> If I use a Raspberry Pi to develop a special purpose device (i.e. with custom software), can I patent the device even though Raspberry Pi is open source?
[20:51] <shoshy> i have lan connection but not internet over the pi. this is how my interfaces file looks like: http://pastie.org/10504890
[20:52] * Gathis (~TheGrey@unaffiliated/gathis) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:53] * GuidovanPossum (~chatzilla@2600:100e:b102:7f37:a54a:ea25:e962:8e8a) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 41.0/20150918100310])
[20:53] * Svardskampe (~Svardskam@185-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:54] <shoshy> the ping doesnt resolve any address even though i've set my dns server...
[20:55] * cnd_ (~cnd@NYUFWA-GUESTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Quit: cnd_)
[20:56] * ngladitz (~ngladitz@unaffiliated/ngladitz) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[20:56] * Imaginativeone (~Imaginati@pool-173-66-94-87.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[20:57] * treeherder (~hive_quee@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[20:57] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
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[20:58] * ndrei (~avo@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:59] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:59] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:00] <pksato> shoshy: ping direct on ip works? pinh
[21:00] <pksato> ping
[21:00] * gosty (~textual@c-73-172-159-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] <shoshy> pksato: From icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
[21:00] * treeherder (~hive_quee@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] <shoshy> and then it continues..
[21:01] <pksato> shure that is you router ip?
[21:01] <pksato> check on working system.
[21:02] <shoshy> yes... its my computer
[21:02] <shoshy> im able to ssh into the pi
[21:02] <pksato> ah?
[21:03] <pksato> you computer is sharing internet to rpi?
[21:03] * BluRaf (~BluRaf@088156131227.dynamic-ww-2.vectranet.pl) Quit (Quit: See ya!)
[21:03] <shoshy> pksato: yes
[21:03] <shoshy> im sharing the internet using my computer (mac os , usb->ethernet , sharing options : share internet on ethernet)
[21:03] <shoshy> it worked for 2 months, until recently..
[21:03] <pksato> its like that sharing is not working.
[21:03] <shoshy> i have no clue what happened, but yesterday i've re-installed raspbian, now with jessie... and it sucks.
[21:04] <shoshy> pksato: what else i can check?
[21:05] <pksato> gateway is propper set? ip route show
[21:05] * treeherder (~hive_quee@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[21:06] <shoshy> pksato: ive written it in the interfaces file...
[21:07] * MiB (~MiB@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[21:07] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:08] * oxhak (~OxHaK@unaffiliated/oxhak) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:08] <pksato> jessie? I can not help much on this version of debian. It change lots thing due use of systemd.
[21:09] * zenguy_pc (~oracle__@pool-108-30-54-58.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[21:09] <shoshy> pksato: thanks... i think i'll go back to wheezy...
[21:10] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:11] <pksato> if have a networkmanger, interfaces file is not used.
[21:13] <shoshy> i've also tried adding it to the /etc/dhcpcd.conf
[21:15] * Keanu73 (Keanu73@unaffiliated/keanu73) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:15] * treeherder (~hive_quee@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[21:16] * odin_ (~Odin@cpc22-soli5-2-0-cust111.19-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:16] * Sisco (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:16] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The Kirito is always right foundation. Grand reopening.)
[21:16] * Sisco (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] * Moonsilence (~Moonsilen@aftr-37-201-224-90.unity-media.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] * Moonsilence (~Moonsilen@aftr-37-201-224-90.unity-media.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:19] * cnd_ (~cnd@NYUFWA-GUESTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] * BluRaf (~BluRaf@088156131227.dynamic-ww-2.vectranet.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] <cnd_> I was disconnected
[21:19] <cnd_> is there any way to look at the log
[21:19] <cnd_> to see if someone answered my question
[21:19] * MiB (~MiB@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:20] * teclo- points to the topic
[21:20] <teclo-> It's written right up there brother
[21:21] * odin_ (~Odin@cpc22-soli5-2-0-cust111.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[21:22] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:23] * ndrei (~avo@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[21:24] * relyt (~relyt@205-178-66-212.c3-0.snb-ubr1.chi-snb.il.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: away)
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[21:30] * treeherder (~hive_quee@ has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:31] * GenteelBen (~BenOrigin@cpc70133-lutn12-2-0-cust324.9-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:31] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:32] * fengling (~fengling@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:32] * gbaman_ (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:33] * spvensko (~spvensko@unaffiliated/spvensko) Quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[21:33] * cnd_ (~cnd@NYUFWA-GUESTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) Quit (Quit: cnd_)
[21:34] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[21:35] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:40] * fennesz (~fennesz@adsl- Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[21:46] * TyrfingMjolnir (~Tyrfing@52.90-149-171.nextgentel.com) Quit (Quit: For Valhall!)
[21:47] * relyt (~relyt@205-178-66-212.c3-0.snb-ubr1.chi-snb.il.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:47] * shoshy (~shoshy@c-69-181-70-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ()
[21:48] * odin_ (~Odin@cpc22-soli5-2-0-cust111.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
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[21:51] * GenteelBen (~BenOrigin@cpc70133-lutn12-2-0-cust324.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[21:52] * k0mp0 (~k0mp0@05470e52.skybroadband.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:52] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:52] * odin_ (~Odin@cpc22-soli5-2-0-cust111.19-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:54] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:54] * GenteelBen (~BenOrigin@cpc70133-lutn12-2-0-cust324.9-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:55] * MY123 (~IceChat9@unaffiliated/kill--9-1/x-8776976) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:56] * Imaginativeone (~Imaginati@pool-173-66-94-87.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[21:57] * Moonsilence (~Moonsilen@aftr-37-201-224-90.unity-media.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:59] * m1nus (~m1nus@pool-71-114-198-155.hstntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:01] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:04] * WARlrus (~freenode@cpc17-reig4-2-0-cust230.6-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:05] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:05] * cmoneylulz (~cmoneylul@unaffiliated/cmoneylulz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:08] * Gathis (~TheGrey@unaffiliated/gathis) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:08] * WARlrus (~freenode@cpc17-reig4-2-0-cust230.6-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:11] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:13] * cccyRegeaneWolfe (~cccyRegea@ Quit (Quit: Ping Timeout)
[22:14] * j12t (~j12t@c-107-3-142-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:14] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] * KD7JWC (~shantorn@67-5-216-96.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:17] * Osirus126 (~Osirus126@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:18] * cmoneylulz (~cmoneylul@unaffiliated/cmoneylulz) Quit ()
[22:19] * cccyRegeaneWolfe (~cccyRegea@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:20] * m1nus (~m1nus@pool-71-114-198-155.hstntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[22:20] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:20] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] * Kane (~Kane@au321-1-78-232-149-217.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: Night all o/)
[22:22] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] * zacdev (~zacdev@unaffiliated/zacdev) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:26] * cmoneylulz (~cmoneylul@unaffiliated/cmoneylulz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:28] * BeBored (BeBored@ip4d1431db.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) Quit ()
[22:31] * fengling (~fengling@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:34] * cyborg-one (~cyborg-on@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[22:36] * Net147 (~Net147@unaffiliated/net147) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[22:37] * Kellard_ (~Kellard@cli01.ovpn.se) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
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[22:42] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:44] * GenteelBen (~BenOrigin@cpc70133-lutn12-2-0-cust324.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[22:45] * tombrough (~tom@cpc3-newt3-0-0-cust8.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:46] * tombrough (~tom@cpc3-newt3-0-0-cust8.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has left #raspberrypi
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[22:52] * cave (~various@h081217073183.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:52] * TyrfingMjolnir (~Tyrfing@ Quit (Quit: For Valhall!)
[22:56] * ContactLeft (~user@unaffiliated/contactleft) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[22:56] * parityDrive (~quassel@unaffiliated/dashvapes-luca) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:56] * cmoneylulz (~cmoneylul@unaffiliated/cmoneylulz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:57] * BluRaf (~BluRaf@088156131227.dynamic-ww-2.vectranet.pl) Quit (Quit: See ya!)
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[23:04] * Berg (~chatzilla@pa220-236-43-22.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:04] * blahdodo (~blahdodo@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:05] * JakeSays (~jake@chat.thatswhatjakesaid.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:11] * Dane (~dannydikk@5ED31C63.cm-7-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: Dane)
[23:12] * brethil (~brethil@ Quit (Quit: Quitting existence)
[23:12] * trumpetarn (~trumpetar@h88-129-226-41.dynamic.se.alltele.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[23:14] * toomin (~HomoSapie@unaffiliated/toomin) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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[23:22] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:22] * ndrei (~avo@ Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[23:24] * parityDrive (~quassel@unaffiliated/dashvapes-luca) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:24] * Keanu73 (Keanu73@unaffiliated/keanu73) Quit (Quit: Gotta go to bed or something. See ya!)
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[23:25] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:25] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:26] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-75-83-205-183.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[23:26] * ndrei (~avo@ Quit (Client Quit)
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[23:29] * parityDrive (~quassel@unaffiliated/dashvapes-luca) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:29] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:31] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:33] * fernandog (~quassel@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:34] * nefarious (~nef@unaffiliated/nefarious) Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.1 - http://znc.in)
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[23:38] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:39] * TyrfingMjolnir (~Tyrfing@52.90-149-171.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:40] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:45] * TyrfingMjolnir (~Tyrfing@52.90-149-171.nextgentel.com) Quit (Quit: For Valhall!)
[23:46] * Encapsulation (~Astoundin@unaffiliated/encapsulation) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:48] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:49] * crusty (~crusty@unaffiliated/amt) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[23:49] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-139-206-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:49] * Encrypt (~Chuck@cpc72901-newt33-2-0-cust203.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:54] * GerhardSchr (~GerhardSc@unaffiliated/gerhardschr) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:56] * MY123 (~IceChat9@unaffiliated/kill--9-1/x-8776976) Quit (Quit: If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space)

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.