#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2016-02-16

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * BobbyJr_ (~BobbyJr@robsworld.plus.com) Quit (Quit: Mac is asleep..)
[0:00] <puzzola> AliAlmoullim: # dpkg-reconfigure locales
[0:01] * Spinno (~spinno@ministeri.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:02] * Nimrodel__ (~Nimrodel@ppp046177015029.access.hol.gr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:02] * mowcius (~Rob@cpc25-lee210-2-0-cust71.7-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:04] <AliAlmoullim> It was set to en_GB I changed it to en_US
[0:04] * Nimrodel (~Nimrodel@ppp079167057011.access.hol.gr) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] <AliAlmoullim> I'll reboot and test
[0:05] * Nimrodel_ (~Nimrodel@ppp079167098052.access.hol.gr) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:05] * D-Boy (~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] <AliAlmoullim> Nothing changed
[0:06] * oxhak (~OxHaK@unaffiliated/oxhak) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:06] * Almoullim (~Almoullim@wikipedia/Almoullim) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:06] <Almoullim> ?
[0:07] * Nimrodel__ (~Nimrodel@ppp046177015029.access.hol.gr) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:08] * c00ljs (~c00ljs@177-208-18-176.user3p.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] * muld (~muld@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/muld) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:12] <Almoullim> restating the issue: I have a wireless keyboard and when i type with it in the CLI it everything start with ^[, for example abcd turns into ^[a^[b^[c^[d, i have tested the keyboard on a manjaro linux and it worked fine. also back when i was on the DE the keyboard also worked just fine even in the terminal, but not in the CLI.
[0:13] * Hix (~hix@97e055a4.skybroadband.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
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[0:14] * netzfisch (~Thunderbi@x55b064a7.dyn.telefonica.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:15] * Kimbernator (~kimbernat@c-76-28-215-142.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:15] * GentileBen (GentileBen@cpc70133-lutn12-2-0-cust324.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:15] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-94-112-0-81.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[0:15] * muld (~muld@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/muld) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:16] * Lorduncan (~Thunderbi@91.Red-79-159-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:17] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:18] * Kimbernator (~kimbernat@c-76-28-215-142.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:21] * ziesemer (~mark@cpe-107-10-106-14.new.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[0:23] * Hix (~hix@97e055a4.skybroadband.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:23] * gbaman_ (~gbaman@members.unit1.farsetlabs.org.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] * Macgyver0 (~SaQ@173-80-131-187.stabcmtk01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] * whonut (~whonut@ Quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:27] * gbaman (~gbaman@members.unit1.farsetlabs.org.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:27] <Almoullim> anyone cares to help for Christ sake !!!!!
[0:30] * defsdoor (~andy@cpc73037-sutt4-2-0-cust62.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:31] * Kimbernator (~kimbernat@c-76-28-215-142.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:31] <mlelstv> caring is overrated :)
[0:31] <mlelstv> I have no idea what your wireless keyboard is doing.
[0:32] * __builtin (~me@unaffiliated/franklin) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] * [Saint] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:33] * doomlord (~textual@host86-149-133-173.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:35] <Almoullim> its not the keyboard
[0:35] <Almoullim> its the os
[0:35] <Almoullim> the keyboard works in two different os
[0:36] <Almoullim> ubuntu and manjaro
[0:36] <Almoullim> the issue is with the os
[0:37] * Hix (~hix@97e055a4.skybroadband.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * [Saint] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:38] * Hix (~hix@97e055a4.skybroadband.com) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[0:38] <Valduare> so tired
[0:38] <Valduare> keep yawning
[0:39] * Viper168 (~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:40] * Kimbernator (~kimbernat@c-76-28-215-142.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:41] * tomeff (~tomeff@cst-prg-8-21.cust.vodafone.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:42] * Almoullim (~Almoullim@wikipedia/Almoullim) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:42] * Almoullim (~Almoullim@wikipedia/Almoullim) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:43] * Kimbernator (~kimbernat@c-76-28-215-142.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:44] * ThePendulum (~ThePendul@54195732.cm-5-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[0:45] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-94-112-0-81.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:46] * ayancey (uid88050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vowdfxlauuvuoree) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:46] * Almoullim (~Almoullim@wikipedia/Almoullim) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:49] * Almoullim (~Almoullim@wikipedia/Almoullim) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:50] <mlelstv> do you have another keyboard or can you login by ssh ?
[0:50] * [Butch]_ (~butch@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:51] * [Butch]_ (~butch@ Quit (Client Quit)
[0:52] * PabloPhoenix (~Dave@ Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[0:53] * [Butch] (~butch@ Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:54] * tombrough (~tom@cpc3-newt3-0-0-cust8.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has left #raspberrypi
[0:55] * EvilDMP_ (~EvilDMP@django/committer/EvilDMP) has left #raspberrypi
[0:56] <Almoullim> i can login by ssh
[0:56] * doomlord (~textual@host86-149-133-173.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:56] * cave (~various@h081217073183.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:56] <mlelstv> have a look at the contents of /dev/input/by-id/
[0:56] <Almoullim> but no i dont have another keyboard, i know the issue is with the os not the keyboard because it work with ubuntu and manjaro
[0:56] <Almoullim> no
[0:56] <Almoullim> i mean how
[0:57] <Almoullim> ls ?
[0:57] <mlelstv> log in by ssh an do an ls -l
[0:57] <Almoullim> ok
[0:57] <mlelstv> there should be a symlink for a keyboard
[0:57] * Kimbernator (~kimbernat@c-76-28-215-142.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:58] <Almoullim> pi@AlmoullimPi:~ $ ls -l /dev/input/by-id/
[0:58] <Almoullim> ls: cannot access /dev/input/by-id/: No such file or directory
[0:59] <mlelstv> or maybe /dev/input/by-path ?
[0:59] <Almoullim> no
[1:00] <Almoullim> ?
[1:00] * cyborg-one (~cyborg-on@212-178-10-216.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua) Quit (Quit: cyborg-one)
[1:01] * wimm0 (Elite16111@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-czyurzvjqhadglvb) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:01] <mlelstv> anything else in /dev/input ?
[1:02] <Almoullim> pi@AlmoullimPi:~ $ ls -l /dev/input/
[1:02] <Almoullim> total 0
[1:02] <Almoullim> crw-rw---- 1 root input 13, 63 Feb 15 23:04 mice
[1:02] * travnewmatic (~travnewma@corp.external.dfw02.800hosting.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:04] <Almoullim> anything else ?
[1:04] * Kimbernator (~kimbernat@c-76-28-215-142.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:04] <mlelstv> what OS is this?
[1:05] <mlelstv> this doesn't look like raspbian :)
[1:06] <sir_galahad_ad> o/
[1:06] <Almoullim> it is raspian
[1:07] <shinji257> do uname -a
[1:07] <Almoullim> ok im done!!! can i install manjaro on raspi?
[1:08] <mlelstv> you already said that the keyboard works with it...
[1:08] * gbaman_ (~gbaman@members.unit1.farsetlabs.org.uk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:08] * c00ljs (~c00ljs@177-208-18-176.user3p.veloxzone.com.br) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:08] * gbaman (~gbaman@members.unit1.farsetlabs.org.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:08] <mlelstv> http://superuser.com/questions/562434/how-can-i-read-input-from-the-hosts-keyboard-when-connected-via-ssh
[1:09] <Almoullim> yes but will it work with it just as the rasbian
[1:09] <mlelstv> This shows how to read keyboard events. But it wants to use those entries under /dev/input that I asked for.
[1:10] <Almoullim> i mean it work super fast in my lenonvo i7 laptop but will that be the case or a 512 ram pi!!
[1:10] <Almoullim> should i just stick with it and try to fix the damn thing
[1:10] * EdwardTurner (~edwardtur@ip1f105b98.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:12] * puzzola digs around a bit and finds http://manjaro-arm.org/downloads.php but knows nothing about it other than that it exists.
[1:12] <mlelstv> manjaro linux is pretty new for RPI. You can only test an alpha version.
[1:12] * bizarro_1 (~bizarro_1@26.Red-83-47-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:12] <mlelstv> what wireless keyboard is this?
[1:13] <mlelstv> also, try to type something on that keyboard and then quickly look at /dev/input :)
[1:13] <puzzola> Almoullim: Thanks, by the way. I'd never heard of Manjaro before, now I have a new distro to try :)
[1:14] * gbaman (~gbaman@members.unit1.farsetlabs.org.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:15] <Almoullim> puzzola: you should try it, the best distro i have ever used, i wanted arch by the way but didn't want the hassle of installing everything at the time
[1:15] <Almoullim> mlelstv: that python script returned
[1:15] <Almoullim> Traceback (most recent call last):
[1:15] <Almoullim> File "kb.py", line 3, in <module>
[1:15] <Almoullim> from evdev import InputDevice
[1:15] <Almoullim> ImportError: No module named evdev
[1:16] * Bilby (~Bilby@cpe-174-101-47-55.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:16] * Hix (~hix@97e055a4.skybroadband.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:17] <mlelstv> I would have started by just using hexdump. Because that's what you probably have installed already
[1:17] <Almoullim> mlelstv: it worked
[1:17] * weemsledeux (~textual@unaffiliated/weems) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:17] <mlelstv> what did work? typing and then looking ?
[1:17] <Almoullim> yea
[1:17] <mlelstv> that's some kind of power saver mode in the keyboard.
[1:18] <Almoullim> pi@AlmoullimPi:~/Documents $ ls -l /dev/input/by-id
[1:18] <Almoullim> total 0
[1:18] <Almoullim> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Feb 16 00:16 usb-Telink_Wireless_Receiver-event-kbd -> ../event0
[1:18] <Almoullim> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Feb 16 00:16 usb-Telink_Wireless_Receiver-if01-event-mouse -> ../event1
[1:18] <Almoullim> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Feb 16 00:16 usb-Telink_Wireless_Receiver-if01-mouse -> ../mouse0
[1:18] <mlelstv> It disconnects aftera a few seconds and reconnects only when you type.
[1:18] <Almoullim> ok now whats next !
[1:18] * cdbob (~cdbob@S0106bc4dfb7ac303.ed.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:18] <mlelstv> ok, now hexdump /dev/input/usb-Telink_Wireless_Receiver-event-kbd
[1:18] <mlelstv> you probably need to be root for that or use sudo
[1:19] * dwiesner (~dwiesner@b2b-94-79-163-46.unitymedia.biz) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:19] <Almoullim> ok but i get a bunch of hex that i dont understand when i hit anything on that keyboard
[1:20] <Almoullim> i decoded that hex
[1:20] * mpmctoo (mpmctoo@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-znzskvopbxeguqis) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:20] <Almoullim> and it returned this:
[1:20] <Almoullim> °ul(Z??àkVÂÄ ?°ul,AÀ`??kVÂÄ ?!°ul)Ž°°@@€?? kV˜ë ?#°ul)Ž°°??@kVÂ×k 
[1:20] <Almoullim> ?%°ul-v°° ??`kVÂ×k ?'°ul(p°à@@€??€kV‡ ?)°ul(p°à?
[1:21] * dwiesner (~dwiesner@b2b-94-79-163-46.unitymedia.biz) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:21] <Almoullim> i looks a bit different on the webpage but you get the idea
[1:21] <mlelstv> these are keyboard events, not single characters
[1:21] <Almoullim> ok
[1:21] <Almoullim> what to do then
[1:22] * zvonimir (~zvonimir@CPEbc4dfbda4e23-CMbc4dfbda4e20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:23] <mlelstv> you could see wether the keyboard sends the ^[a garbage or something else is distorting it.
[1:23] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:23] * Ezriilc (~Ezriilc@173-168-63-225.res.bhn.net) Quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
[1:23] * tomeff (~tomeff@ip-94-112-0-81.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: tomeff)
[1:24] <Almoullim> 0000fd0 6ba3 56c2 c9c7 0006 0000 0000 0000 0000
[1:24] <Almoullim> 0000fe0 6ba3 56c2 0faf 000b 0004 0004 0012 0007
[1:24] <Almoullim> 0000ff0 6ba3 56c2 0faf 000b 0001 0018 0001 0000
[1:24] <Almoullim> 0001000 6ba3 56c2 0faf 000b 0000 0000 0000 0000
[1:24] <Almoullim> 0001010 6ba3 56c2 ea6a 000b 0004 0004 0012 0007
[1:24] <Almoullim> 0001020 6ba3 56c2 ea6a 000b 0001 0018 0000 0000
[1:24] <Almoullim> 0001030 6ba3 56c2 ea6a 000b 0000 0000 0000 0000
[1:24] <Almoullim> this is what i get from the hexdumb
[1:24] * speeddragon (~speeddrag@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:24] <Almoullim> oh ok
[1:24] <Almoullim> nvm
[1:24] <mlelstv> the first 8 bytes are a timestamp
[1:25] <Almoullim> i will install the evdev
[1:25] <mlelstv> then 2 bytes "type", 2 bytes "code" and 4 bytes "value"
[1:25] <Almoullim> and try the script on the post you gave me
[1:25] <mlelstv> ok
[1:25] * speeddragon (~speeddrag@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:26] * gordonDrogon (~gordon@2001:4d48:ad51:8901::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:27] * Tenkawa (~arakeen@unaffiliated/tenkawa) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[1:29] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:29] <Almoullim> damn its slow
[1:30] * PabloPhoenix (~Dave@pool-173-57-135-187.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:31] * Lorduncan (~Thunderbi@91.Red-79-159-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Quit: Lorduncan)
[1:34] <Almoullim> the script worked
[1:34] <Almoullim> and i get what i ever i type
[1:34] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:34] <Almoullim> mlelstv: if i hit a i get a
[1:35] <mlelstv> if event.type==1 and event.value==1:
[1:35] <mlelstv> this checks for a key press
[1:35] * dwiesner (~dwiesner@b2b-94-79-163-46.unitymedia.biz) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[1:35] <mlelstv> try with just if event.type==1:
[1:36] <mlelstv> you _should_ get each key twice. Once you press it and once you release it.
[1:37] * dwiesner (~dwiesner@b2b-94-79-163-46.unitymedia.biz) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:37] * gbaman (~gbaman@cpc15-belf9-2-0-cust171.2-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:37] <sir_galahad_ad> ping
[1:37] * ant_thomas (~ant_thoma@cpc80157-blbn11-2-0-cust244.10-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:38] <Almoullim> mlelstv: yes it does that
[1:38] <mlelstv> seems to work fine then :-/
[1:38] <Almoullim> yeah i know, the problem is with the os!!
[1:38] * vishwin (~alliek@wikimedia/O) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:39] * Encrypt (~Chuck@cpc95008-newt38-2-0-cust165.19-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: Quitte)
[1:39] <Almoullim> what other os that i can install ?
[1:39] <mlelstv> what you just used was "the OS" as well.
[1:42] <Almoullim> ?
[1:43] * infernix (nix@unaffiliated/infernix) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[1:43] <mlelstv> do you have a command 'kbd_mode' installed ?
[1:44] <Almoullim> i get this: Couldn't get a file descriptor referring to the console
[1:44] <Almoullim> so i'm guessing yes
[1:45] * vishwin (~alliek@wikimedia/O) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:46] <mlelstv> maybe kbd_mode -k -C /dev/tty0
[1:46] * knob (~knob@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:47] * PabloPhoenix (~Dave@pool-173-57-135-187.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) has left #raspberrypi
[1:47] <Valduare> raspberry pi forums still down for maintenence eh
[1:47] <sir_galahad_ad> this isn't the pi forum?
[1:49] <Almoullim> mlelstv: Couldn't open /dev/tty0
[1:49] <mlelstv> as root?
[1:50] <Almoullim> it returned nothing
[1:50] <Almoullim> now when i hit the keyboard buttons i get some weird rectangles
[1:50] * Syliss (~Syliss@dpncorp1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:50] <Almoullim> white filled rectangles
[1:50] <mlelstv> fancy
[1:50] <mlelstv> hmm
[1:51] <mlelstv> what CLI is this ? :)
[1:51] * j12t (~j12t@c-50-136-206-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:51] <Almoullim> the one i get when i reboot
[1:52] <mlelstv> try kbd_mode -s or -a or -u
[1:52] * johntramp (~john@unaffiliated/johntramp) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:52] <Almoullim> -s is the same
[1:53] * cssko (~cssko@cpe-24-209-203-159.cinci.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:53] <Almoullim> a and u returnes me to what i get earlier
[1:53] <johntramp> hi, I am having trouble with inserting of USB sticks causing RPI to die - I have split out the +5v and gnd of the USB to an external power source and am still getting the intermittent crashes. Any ideas?
[1:54] <DreadWingKnight> johntramp: model?
[1:54] <Almoullim> but the way some button i don't know which one or which two buttons, anyway, they act like the "ls" commands and returns the files i have
[1:54] <Almoullim> by *
[1:54] <mlelstv> johntrap, split out gnd is bad. gnd must be connected everywhere.
[1:54] <johntramp> Pi2 B
[1:54] <johntramp> mlelstv: is not USB differential signalling?
[1:55] * Hix (~hix@97e055a4.skybroadband.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:55] <johntramp> I can try connecting the GND back in
[1:56] * aphirst (~aphirst@aftr-185-17-207-235.dynamic.mnet-online.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:56] * averagecase (~bolle@cl-3825.cgn-01.de.sixxs.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:58] * mpmctoo (mpmctoo@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-krdblkccsvgbulbw) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:59] <Almoullim> have anyone tried snappy core ubuntu on raspi
[1:59] * travnewmatic (~travnewma@pool-71-252-179-85.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:00] * zvonimir (~zvonimir@CPEbc4dfbda4e23-CMbc4dfbda4e20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:00] * merrick (~merrick@2601:40a:8300:9587:156e:c012:7316:8bff) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] * mlelstv doesn't use Linux
[2:04] * c00ljs (~c00ljs@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:04] <mlelstv> next thing to try would be loadkeys
[2:04] <mlelstv> try loadkeys -a (as root)
[2:05] <Valduare> my pi zero, when I unplug a keyboard from the otg usb hub it resets the wifi dongle
[2:05] <Valduare> and also unmounts flash drives plugged in
[2:05] * vdamewood (~vdamewood@unaffiliated/vdamewood) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:06] <Almoullim> mlelstv: loadkeys: warning: loading non-Unicode keymap on Unicode console
[2:06] <Almoullim> (perhaps you want to do `kbd_mode -a'?)
[2:06] <Almoullim> Loading <stdin>
[2:06] <mlelstv> yes, do kbd_mode -a firsst
[2:06] <mlelstv> first
[2:07] <Almoullim> Loading <stdin>
[2:07] <Almoullim> just thT
[2:07] <Almoullim> that
[2:07] <mlelstv> ah yes.
[2:08] <mlelstv> loadkeys -d -a ?
[2:10] * doomlord (~textual@host86-149-133-173.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[2:10] * makaveli0227TL (~makaveli0@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:11] * hp61 (~lokoh@cpc2-ward9-2-0-cust11.10-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[2:12] <Almoullim> mlelstv: Cannot find defkeymap.map
[2:14] * Bilby (~Bilby@cpe-174-101-47-55.columbus.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Bilby)
[2:14] <mlelstv> maybe something missing.
[2:15] <mlelstv> lets see what apt finds
[2:15] <mlelstv> apt-get install console-data
[2:15] <mlelstv> dpkg-reconfigure console-data
[2:15] * makaveli0227TL (~makaveli0@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[2:16] <warpie> Valduare are you doing the unplugging while pi is still powered up?
[2:16] <mlelstv> dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
[2:16] <Valduare> ya when I found out this issue, I was using a usb keyboard to pair my bluetooth keyboard and then unplugging the usb keyboard
[2:17] * Hix (~hix@97e055a4.skybroadband.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[2:17] * mlelstv just unplugs devices from the powered hub...
[2:17] <warpie> well, that's not a good thing to do.. always power down the pi before unplugging/plugging in things
[2:18] <mlelstv> USB is supposed to be safe
[2:20] <warpie> when data is constantly going in/out a USB and you are unplugging the device, what you think it would do?
[2:20] <Valduare> its a hub?
[2:20] <Valduare> separated usb
[2:20] <mlelstv> cancel or abort the transaction, maybe report an application error.
[2:24] * fyrril (~fyrril@cpe-98-122-16-231.sc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:25] <Almoullim> i ran dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration but i don't know which one to choose
[2:25] * whitby (~whitby@ Quit (Quit: https://i.imgur.com/JNE82x2.gifv)
[2:25] <mlelstv> what choices does it give?
[2:25] <Almoullim> alot of keyboard models
[2:25] <Almoullim> mine is a wireless iKon keyboard
[2:26] <Almoullim> but its not on the list
[2:26] <Almoullim> there is Creative Desktop Wireless 7000, should i choose that
[2:26] <Almoullim> or generic 101,102,105 ?
[2:27] <Almoullim> or generic 101,102, or 105 ?
[2:28] <warpie> is there a way to do an apt-get install Creative Desktop Wireless 7000???
[2:28] * Coldblackice (~anonz@unaffiliated/coldblackice) Quit ()
[2:28] <Almoullim> huh ?
[2:29] <Almoullim> i just choose that and some stuff
[2:29] <Almoullim> i will reboot
[2:30] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:31] <Almoullim> mlelstv: nothing changed
[2:35] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[2:36] * Coldblackice (~anonz@unaffiliated/coldblackice) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:41] <mlelstv> I'm running out of ideas :)
[2:42] * cdbob (~cdbob@S0106bc4dfb7ac303.ed.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:44] * ddybing (~ddybing@ Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
[2:45] * SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[2:50] * SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:51] * Tachyon` is now known as Tach[Away]
[2:52] * Heasummn (~Heasummn@c-73-51-87-243.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:52] * p71 (~chatzilla@75-128-224-180.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:53] <Heasummn> I plan on going through this but with a rpi 2 B+, since the rpi 2 has different GPIO pin locations, the numbering will be different, is there a place with the reference for all the different GPIO pins from v1 to v2??
[2:53] <Heasummn> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/index.html
[2:54] * AliAlmoullim (uid140609@wikipedia/Almoullim) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[2:54] <sir_galahad_ad> wrat?
[2:55] * Nimrodel (~Nimrodel@ppp079167057011.access.hol.gr) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:55] <sir_galahad_ad> i didn't think gpio positions had changed
[2:55] <Heasummn> they haven't?
[2:55] <Heasummn> disclaimer says they are different
[2:55] <Almoullim> mlelstv: I formatted the SD card and its now 48% on downloading and extracting the filesystem for archlinux-arm
[2:55] <Almoullim> but thanks alot for the help you gave
[2:55] <sir_galahad_ad> disclaimer?
[2:55] <Heasummn> big red text on the link
[2:56] * sassafrassfrass (~sassafras@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:56] <Heasummn> or have I confused words?
[2:56] <Heasummn> and GPIO pins do not control the led lights
[2:58] <mazyar> "This website is aimed at people aged 16 and upwards".. a course for OS development?
[2:58] <sir_galahad_ad> the A+ and B+ differ from the original A and B in that they have more gpio pins
[3:00] <Heasummn> mazyar, it's really simple, and nothing too complex if you have some asm background. I think some young kid that likes to proggram could take it on
[3:00] <Almoullim> mlelstv: the installation is done now im on the login screen and the keyboard is working
[3:01] <sir_galahad_ad> yeah but att syntax assembler...blech
[3:01] <Almoullim> thanks alot
[3:01] <Heasummn> att syntax assembler?
[3:01] <mazyar> won't att syntax die?
[3:01] <Heasummn> at&t
[3:01] <Heasummn> ah ok
[3:01] <mazyar> Heasummn: at&t syntax or something like that
[3:02] <sir_galahad_ad> yes that
[3:02] <Heasummn> I like my higher level things up in C++ and Python realm, so I don't do much assembly. But I've never really dealt with intel syntax except for once whilst I had to write a compiler for a toy language
[3:02] * kevireilly_ (~kevireill@c-73-241-35-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:03] <Heasummn> and it was assembled into x86
[3:03] * kayatwork (~kayfox@orca.zerda.net) Quit (Quit: Computer, end program.)
[3:03] * sir_galahad_ad has only done assembly for the x86 processors and for my Tandy Color Computer
[3:03] <Heasummn> I liked it much nicer
[3:03] * zvonimir (~zvonimir@CPEbc4dfbda4e23-CMbc4dfbda4e20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:03] <Heasummn> what does MIPS fall under?
[3:03] <sir_galahad_ad> what do you mean?
[3:04] <Heasummn> does it fall under intel syntax or att syntax?
[3:04] <Heasummn> as I've done a lot of MIPS
[3:06] <sir_galahad_ad> most processor manufacturers define their own syntax, at&t syntax is a kind of catch all syntax designed to be universal, but it's often confusing because the operators for the nmemonics get switched around
[3:07] <Heasummn> is there a difference between ver 1 and ver 2 in terms of where the GPIO pins for certain things are located?
[3:07] <sir_galahad_ad> when you say ver 1 and ver 2
[3:08] * onebrokeguy (~pi@ipservice-092-209-043-122.092.209.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[3:08] <Heasummn> rpi 1 and rpi 2
[3:08] * onebrokeguy (~pi@ipservice-092-209-044-025.092.209.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:09] <sir_galahad_ad> on the pi A+, B+, pi 2 B, and pi zero there are 40 gpio pins
[3:09] <DreadWingKnight> the A+, b+ zero and the 2 have identical gpio pinouts
[3:09] <DreadWingKnight> the original a and original b have the same pinouts
[3:09] <sir_galahad_ad> so if you're counting from the bottom up you might be misled
[3:09] <DreadWingKnight> and the pinout layout for the first 26 pins (I think it is) is common between both generations
[3:09] * vdamewood (~vdamewood@unaffiliated/vdamewood) Quit (Quit: Life beckons.)
[3:10] <sir_galahad_ad> but it should be noted that the A+ and B+ are rpi 1 and have the 40 pin layout that the orginal A and B don't
[3:10] * sir_galahad_ad notes that *that* is what DW stood for
[3:10] <DreadWingKnight> http://www.raspberrypi-spy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Raspberry-Pi-GPIO-Layout-Revision-1.png there's the original A and B GPIO
[3:11] <Heasummn> alright, I think I got it
[3:11] <DreadWingKnight> http://www.raspberrypi-spy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Raspberry-Pi-GPIO-Layout-Model-B-Plus-rotated-2700x900.png and there's the 40-pin new one
[3:11] * swift110-phone (~swift110-@unaffiliated/swift110) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:11] <swift110-phone> Hey
[3:11] <DreadWingKnight> first 26 pins are identical across all versions of the RPI
[3:11] <Heasummn> some more googling also tells me, that the peripherel base is located at GPIO pin 47 now, rather than 16
[3:12] <sir_galahad_ad> Heasummn: it should also be noted that though the pins are in the same places there are 3 different ways to number them
[3:13] <sir_galahad_ad> Heasummn: the pins can be numbered by the pinout from the SoC, the physical location on the board, or the number that the wiringPi library uses
[3:13] <brianx> i thought one of the spi or i2c pins was different. i could be wrong.
[3:16] <DreadWingKnight> brianx: based on the two images I linked, doesn't look like
[3:18] <brianx> DreadWingKnight: i'm not at my desk, but i think it's documented in gordon's wiring pi project.
[3:18] <brianx> i wanna say it's secondary spi select.
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[3:23] * nerdboy (~sarnold@gentoo/developer/nerdboy) Quit (Excess Flood)
[3:23] * cssko (~cssko@cpe-24-209-203-159.cinci.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:24] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
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[3:27] <Valduare> g'evening
[3:28] <sir_galahad_ad> o/
[3:29] <Valduare> ordered a 3d printer electronics kit
[3:29] * Croata (~kroata@pc-242-131-44-190.cm.vtr.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[3:29] * sassafrassfrass (~sassafras@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[3:31] <sir_galahad_ad> neat
[3:31] * pksato (~PEBKAC@unaffiliated/pksato) Quit (Quit: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)
[3:31] * speeddragon (~speeddrag@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[3:38] * t3chguy is now almost deaf
[3:38] * t3chguy can hear a constant ringing
[3:38] * t3chguy should invest in musicians ear plugs
[3:39] <Valduare> wife nagging at ya again? :P
[3:40] <sir_galahad_ad> Valduare: don't say that if his wife is watching you'll get him in trouble
[3:40] <Valduare> lol
[3:44] <t3chguy> Valduare: I'm 18 no wife lol
[3:44] <t3chguy> out partying
[3:45] <t3chguy> stood next to speakers for a fraction of a second too long
[3:45] <JK-47> never get married.
[3:45] <t3chguy> JK-47: Advice stored
[3:45] <sir_galahad_ad> i'm 34 no life >:(
[3:45] <t3chguy> :/
[3:45] <t3chguy> tbh I've no life either at 18
[3:45] <t3chguy> first time out
[3:45] * speeddragon (~speeddrag@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:46] <t3chguy> friends dragged me out as I'm struggling with a breakup (got dumped)
[3:46] <sir_galahad_ad> phobos is struggling with a break up
[3:47] * mazyar is now known as ilhami
[3:47] <t3chguy> phobos
[3:47] <t3chguy> ?
[3:47] <sir_galahad_ad> mars' moon
[3:47] <ShorTie> wives are what make life
[3:47] <sir_galahad_ad> recent data shows it's going to break up
[3:49] * dj_pi (~dj@c-73-191-212-56.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:50] * ilhami is now known as mosfet
[3:51] * speeddragon (~speeddrag@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[3:51] <Almoullim> Hello, is there a way to remove the rainbow square ?
[3:51] <Almoullim> what is it for anyway ?
[3:52] <ShorTie> ya, get a better micro-usb cable and/or power supply
[3:52] <methuzla> more electrons
[3:52] <ShorTie> it's there to tell you you got power problems
[3:53] <methuzla> although technically it's an under voltage warning
[3:54] * gnatt (~gnatt@DHCP-153-043.resnet.ua.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:54] <sir_galahad_ad> i like to think of it as a main bus undervolt
[3:54] <ShorTie> you using a cheap micro-usb phone charging cable or a good 1 with like 24awg printed on it ??
[3:55] <Valduare> what rainbow square?
[3:56] * Pi42 (~Pi42@unaffiliated/pi42) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[3:56] * fyrril (~fyrril@cpe-98-122-16-231.sc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:58] * JK-47 (RJ@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe73:fc8) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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[4:00] * rmx77 (~rmx77@c-76-104-254-218.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[4:03] <swift110-phone> Hmm
[4:03] <swift110-phone> A raspberry pi tablet would be cool
[4:03] <DreadWingKnight> people have built them
[4:03] <swift110-phone> Yes but I want an official ome
[4:03] <swift110-phone> Oje
[4:04] <swift110-phone> One
[4:04] <ShorTie> cool toy, but not really pratical
[4:04] <swift110-phone> Why not?
[4:04] <swift110-phone> I like the 7" pi screen
[4:05] <ShorTie> to big a balky, not good battery life
[4:05] <ShorTie> unless you want to hule around a car battery, lol.
[4:05] * cpe (~cpe@unaffiliated/cpe) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[4:05] * cpe_ is now known as cpe
[4:07] <sir_galahad_ad> you could make it less bulky with a pi zero
[4:07] <ayancey> ^ and even less bulky if you make your own PCB
[4:07] * shantorn (~manjaro-m@67-5-235-247.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:07] * t3chguy just spent £20 on some musician's earplugs
[4:08] * t3chguy hopes to prevent deafness next time
[4:08] <swift110-phone> Hmm
[4:09] <Valduare> hmm thought I had more cd rom’s around
[4:09] <Valduare> drives
[4:09] * nfk (~nfk@unaffiliated/nfk) Quit (Quit: Try memory.free_dirty_pages=true in about:config)
[4:10] * gbaman (~gbaman@cpc15-belf9-2-0-cust171.2-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:11] <swift110-phone> Lol
[4:11] <swift110-phone> I have two
[4:11] <Valduare> I need to start taking apart 3 of them
[4:12] <sir_galahad_ad> Valduare: why?
[4:13] <Valduare> going to use the stepper sled assemblies in them for xyz
[4:13] <Valduare> I can get started building the unit while I wait for the electronics to arive next week
[4:15] <t3chguy> nn guys
[4:15] * mosfet (~mazyar@unaffiliated/mazyar) Quit (Quit: mosfet)
[4:15] * Svardskampe (~Svardskam@185-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:15] <sir_galahad_ad> nn
[4:16] * Ahmed90 (~Ahmed90@unaffiliated/ahmed90) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:21] * gbaman (~gbaman@cpc15-belf9-2-0-cust171.2-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:23] * m3chanical (~m3chanica@c-71-225-51-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[4:26] * gbaman (~gbaman@cpc15-belf9-2-0-cust171.2-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:27] * samskiter (~sduke@cpc91232-cmbg18-2-0-cust666.5-4.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: samskiter)
[4:28] * pppingme (~pppingme@unaffiliated/pppingme) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:30] <t3chguy> Apparently I'm not tired anymore
[4:30] <t3chguy> So there's that 😂
[4:30] * shantorn (~manjaro-m@67-5-235-247.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:13] * howdoi (uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxwmcuuwfavxvvlj) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:15] <swift110-phone> Coll
[5:19] * laiv (~laiv@2601:196:4901:ad91:61fa:e9c6:8c23:3d5) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[6:38] <brianx> DreadWingKnight: it's physical pins 3, 5, and 12 that change. bottom half of http://wiringpi.com/pins/
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[6:42] <Crom> dang it, mailboxes were all open and empty. I don't know if I received any mail today
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[6:57] <Crom> hmm
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[7:43] <NetBilly> Greetings great people of #raspberrypi. I am trying to drive two PTZ servos from the Raspberry pi 2 B+. Is it possible to do this reliably using only the Pi? Using ServoBlaster pin 2 and 5 used to work, but now only 1 of them works
[7:45] <NetBilly> I need to move the camera X and Y using two mini PWM servos
[7:47] <Crom> hmmm, you have enough voltage going into the servo's?
[7:50] * mreznik (mreznik@nat/redhat/x-gkqgcyysucfotsvg) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:54] <NetBilly> yes. 5v 2A
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[8:00] * Tronsha is now known as [UPA]Stefan
[8:00] <Crom> if you switch wires around the other servo then works?
[8:00] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:00] * BobbyJr (~BobbyJr@robsworld.plus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:00] <NetBilly> yes. But the latest firmware for the pi 2 is even worst last I tried it. I had to rollback to get one pwm working
[8:01] <NetBilly> wiringpi doesn't work properly
[8:01] <NetBilly> I will try the latest version again if it definitely works.
[8:01] * ck_mfc (~ck_mfc@natpool.web-factory.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:02] <Crom> I only have B+, and Zer0s
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[9:30] <dewp> hey, i bought this accelerometer but cannot find the corresponding datasheet (there are a lot but i cant find the one for this): http://www.ebay.de/itm/221759373608 - it has pins with "VCC +5v" and "+3.3V" (without VCC) - does this mean I can use both pins?
[9:30] * icemanbp (~icemanbp@host10-154-static.240-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:31] <dewp> of course not at once. but I have another sensor which is using 5V so I'd love to use only one circuit (or is this bad practice? I want to solder as less as possible=
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[9:35] <ShorTie> i'd just use the 3.3v pin for safty sakes
[9:36] <ShorTie> did you try to l00k up just the big black chips number ??
[9:37] * Lartza (lartza@unaffiliated/lartza) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[9:37] <ShorTie> and/or the smaller black chip, sortta thinkin that is a regulator to cut the voltage down to 3.3v
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[10:51] <ace139> Hi, I need to work with SPI in RPi, there are some spidev modules available. Does anyone know which is the latest spidev library ?
[10:51] * c00ljs (~c00ljs@177-208-18-176.user3p.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:56] * ShorTie Thinkz, wiringPi
[11:00] <ace139> ShorTie, In the website its given for Raspberry Pi Model B+ but I have RPi 2 Model B. Will it be compatible ?
[11:00] * samskiter (~sduke@cpc91232-cmbg18-2-0-cust666.5-4.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:00] <ShorTie> it's in apt-get now i do believe
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[11:01] <ace139> ShorTie, okay!
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[11:09] <whonut> hi. I would like some way to wirelessly communicate the state of a simple switch to my rpi. I had the idea of just hooking an IR LED up to power through the switch and having a receiver on the RPi. Does this sound like it'd do the trick?
[11:10] <whonut> Does anyone have any other suggestions?
[11:11] <mgottschlag> whonut: just wire the switch directly to the pi's gpio and setup the GPIO pin as an input with pullup
[11:11] <mgottschlag> ah, wai
[11:11] <mgottschlag> t, wireless
[11:11] <mgottschlag> well, you cannot use arbitrary IR receivers
[11:12] <mgottschlag> those expect a 38kHz modulated signal (or similar frequencies) to distinguish the signal from other IR noise
[11:13] <mgottschlag> you can use a simple IR phototransistor, but then you need very strong IR illumination to get the right signal/noise ratio, and you need an amplifier/level detector before you can feed the signal into the pi's GPIO pin
[11:13] <mgottschlag> there are 38kHz IR signal generation ICs though which you could use iirc
[11:14] <whonut> mgottschlag hmm. More complicated than I thought (which is sort of why I asked). Thank you
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[11:15] <mgottschlag> whonut: a google image search comes up with circuits like this one: http://www.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/8016-555schematic.gif
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[11:16] <whonut> lordy, alright. Thank you
[11:18] <whonut> Anything else you can think of that I could use? My one requirement really is that the transmitter end doesn't need a brain. Like I said, I only need it to 'say' "I'm on/off"
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[11:18] <whonut> I expect to be disappointed, but if you don't sk :P
[11:19] <whonut> ask*
[11:19] <mgottschlag> I think that circuit is as simple as it gets for wireless communication
[11:19] <whonut> righto
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[11:19] <mgottschlag> and the components cost <1$
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[11:19] <mgottschlag> everything else I can think of (NRF24L01 wireless communication, or ESP8266 wifi) is magnitudes more complex
[11:21] <mgottschlag> if you are a software guy, you could get an arduino to generate a 38kHz signal
[11:21] <mgottschlag> that would be the perfect example for overengineering though :D
[11:21] <mgottschlag> (or, of course, a pi)
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[11:26] <ace139> how can I upload the sensor data from RPi to some kind of a web server from where I will make a interface so that could be monitored remotely.
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[11:30] <whonut> ace139 you could run the web server on the pi]
[11:31] <ace139> whonut, but suppose I need to monitor from a distance. then local server in the RPi would be of no use !
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[11:34] <whonut> you can access the server on the local network no problem or port forward for wider access
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[11:35] <whonut> ace139 beyond that, perhaps Google App Engine or something like that
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[11:35] <whonut> I admit that I've always been too paranoid to port forward myself
[11:36] <whonut> depending on your use case, plotly might do the trick
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[11:37] <ace139> whonut, Is it possible like I upload the data constantly in a server using ftp. And I make a simple HTML page for reading from the server so that I could access it with internet from anywhere in the world ?
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[11:38] <whonut> do you want the web page to do something with it or do you just want to get at the raw data?
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[11:38] <ace139> whonut, I will just need it for monitoring purpose
[11:39] <whonut> so you want a plot/plots, basically?
[11:39] <ace139> whonut, didn't get you
[11:41] <whonut> ace139 the best solution depends on what you want to do with the data. If you just need the raw data, upload it to dropbox. If you just need to plot it on some axes then plot.ly/dashboard.ly will do the trick beautifully. If you want something more custom then you need some sort of server space.
[11:42] <whonut> that web address is 2 separate ones
[11:42] <ace139> whonut, like suppose let me give you a scenario, Suppose a dozen of temperature sensor places in different places in my house. They are getting data into the Raspberry Pi. Now suppose I go for a holiday, I would like to monitor the data to check for any abrupt changes in temperature in my home.
[11:43] <whonut> ace139 do you want the pi to notify you of those changes or do you just want to see the data and decide for yourself?
[11:43] <whonut> I should've asked for a scenario to begin with, apologies
[11:43] <ace139> whonut, I want to see the data and decide myself
[11:44] <mgottschlag> ace139: what programming languages do you know? I bet that all of them have HTTP libraries which can make POST requests to a webserver with your backend code
[11:45] <ace139> mgottschlag, I know python
[11:45] <mgottschlag> and then your backend can add the data to a database, and a different web page can load all data from the database and display it
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[11:46] <mgottschlag> I think django is a rather nice framework for server-side python when working with databases
[11:46] <mgottschlag> (a bit complex though)
[11:46] <ace139> mgottschlag, can you tell me exactly what term i need to search the web to help me out ?
[11:47] <mgottschlag> python http library?
[11:47] <whonut> ace139 I would recommend Google App Engine and Bottle or flask
[11:47] <whonut> I'll just fetch some links
[11:49] <ace139> mgottschlag, any alternatives to it ?
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[11:49] <mgottschlag> hm? alternatives to what, and why?
[11:50] <whonut> ace139 Google App Engine (free hosting/database) https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/
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[11:50] <mgottschlag> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/requests <- that looks good to me for the client side
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[11:51] <whonut> bottle.py (routing/templating) http://bottlepy.org/docs/dev/index.html (This is a single file framework, super easy to add to GAE)
[11:52] <ace139> mgottschlag, the request module looks to work good.
[11:53] <whonut> ace139 The ridiculously low-tech solution is to have the Pi assemble a static web page and host that on Dropbox
[11:53] <whonut> but that's no fun
[11:53] <ace139> whonut, thats true
[11:53] <ace139> whonut, but maybe it will work with ease
[11:54] <ace139> whonut, mgottschlag then I should do is save the readings in a DB like SQLite ?
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[11:57] <whonut> ace139 that seems like overkill to me if you go with the static solution.
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[11:59] <ace139> whonut, well if the data is in DB maybe I could manipulate it later on. Not in context to the scenario I told.
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[12:00] <whonut> ace139 I would just shove it in a CSV or something. It's only going to be accessed by the Pi locally. If you use GAE or Heroku or something then you'll need to use their data storage mwthods
[12:01] <ace139> whonut, ya CSV will work fine, but as the size of the file starts increasing will there be some issue ?
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[12:10] <whonut> ace139 It would, but Python's CSV reading isn't too slow (as Python goes). I couldn't tell you how that stacks up against a DB though
[12:10] <whonut> my DB knowledge is slim at best
[12:10] <ace139> whonut, I am also not sure!
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[12:14] <whonut> I think the most important thing to consider is how you want to query the data
[12:15] <ace139> whonut, hm
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[12:27] <gordonDrogon> hi..
[12:27] <gordonDrogon> does anyone here have a standard install of Raspbian with the default 'pi' login handy? I need to know the default $PATH (echo $PATH) I modify all mine and don't have an un-touched one to-hand...
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[12:43] <DreadWingKnight> gordonDrogon: I'd need to install the image to a card to check, give me a bit
[12:43] <pksato> gordonDrogon: jessie image, loop mount, /etc/profile PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games"
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[12:44] <gordonDrogon> that's great, thanks.
[12:44] <pksato> user pi .profile if ~/bin exists PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH"
[12:44] <gordonDrogon> just needed to see if /usr/sbin was in it.
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[12:45] <gordonDrogon> been asked to drop the aboslute path to /usr/sbin/i2cdetect in the gpio program as another distribution doesn't have i2cdetect in /usr/sbin apparently.
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[12:57] <gagalicious> raspberry pi does not seem to have enough power for an external hdd drive. what can i do?
[12:58] <Armand> Powered hub
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[13:01] <gordonDrogon> if the dribr needs under an amp and this is a B+ or v2 then you might want to try setting high power mode on the USB.
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[13:24] <dewp> erm ... I'm debugging and plugged my accelerometer out, it's only connected to i2c but without voltage. it is still working. why? :)
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[13:27] <pksato> dewp: see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yFh7Vv0Paw
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[13:28] <dewp> thats a lot more complicated than my circuit :)
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[13:29] <dewp> ok it is working as long as it is connected to GND
[13:29] <dewp> is this fine ?!
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[13:36] <dewp> hmm. maybe I need to solder it and not work with the breadboard ... ;)
[13:37] <dewp> http://kropp.ca/tutorials/raspberry-pi-hall-effect-switch/ <- That Tutorial is connecting 5V to the Hall Sensor and VOut is also around 5V. Why is there no Resistor in front of GPIO? Is that not correct that they take only 3.3V?
[13:38] <dewp> (if it's low, GND is receiving 5v...)
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[13:41] <mgottschlag> dewp: look into the datasheet, the sensor never outputs 5V
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[13:42] <mgottschlag> it contains a mosfet to short the output to 0V, but the high voltage level has to be provided by a pullup resistor
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[13:43] <mgottschlag> dewp: that's the 10k resistor
[13:43] <mgottschlag> (you could also use the pi's builtin pullup)
[13:43] <mgottschlag> bbl
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[13:45] <dewp> 10k putting it high
[13:45] <dewp> pulling it up
[13:45] <dewp> :)
[13:45] <dewp> but my multimeter says that 4.6V are coming to the GPIO
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[14:35] <mgottschlag> dewp: the 10k must pull towards 3.3V, not towards 5V
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[14:43] <dewp> d'oh ...
[14:43] <dewp> i think NOW i got the principle (although I read
[14:44] <dewp> a lot about pullup / pull down)
[14:44] <dewp> thanks pi for not blowing up
[14:45] <Habbie> the pi is awesome at not blowing up
[14:45] <dewp> so I need two circuits... one 3.3V for pullup and one with 5V for VCC
[14:46] <mgottschlag> yeah, with common ground though, so not really two circuits
[14:46] <mgottschlag> "different voltage domains"
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[14:51] <SpeedEvil> 1K resistors in series with all GPIOs are a really good idea
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> they will rarely if ever stop something that should work working
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> and they provide a lot of protection from oopses
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> +-12V will often not kill a GPIO and a 1K in series
[14:52] <Sonny_Jim> gordonDrogon: I think you have outdated code on Github: https://github.com/WiringPi/WiringPi vs http://git.drogon.net/?p=wiringPi;a=tree
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[14:56] <Bilby> I don’t know if I’ve just been lucky or if the Pi B’s GPIO is very idiot-friendly
[14:56] <Sonny_Jim> gordonDrogon: I have some code to drive SNES controllers if you want ti
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[14:57] <dewp> SpeedEvil, do you mean by "in series" just puttin (at least) 2x 1K just before the input?
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[15:00] <mgottschlag> dewp: just one, and connect everything at the other end of the resistor
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[15:02] <dewp> I see. Will need to read more about it. any certain keywords? :) Is it just Ohm's Law which is protecting the inputs?
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[15:03] <mgottschlag> that, and the protection diode inside of the GPIO
[15:03] <mgottschlag> ESD protection diode
[15:03] <mgottschlag> (and the resistor needs to be there to limit the current going through the diode)
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[15:05] <pksato> voltage shift and protection http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/microchip/3_3vto5vAnalogTipsnTricksBrchr.pdf
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[15:05] <dewp> thanks!
[15:07] <dewp> so interesting. I'm calculating the velocity on the outside of my salad spinner. highly scientific!
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[15:07] <Bilby> pksato nice link
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[15:16] <SpeedEvil> dewp: for every single GPIO, connect 1K in series with it before you connect it to anything else
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[15:18] <dewp> Okay :)
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[15:42] <ouned> tested the new VC4 OpenGL driver :> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsCRgXWleMw
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[15:44] <buZz> ty ouned
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[15:45] <buZz> pretty usable :D
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[15:47] <ouned> buZz: yeah pretty fine. Didnt expect it to work that nice
[15:48] <buZz> i read many reports that it actually worked quite well
[15:48] <buZz> i hope GEM in PureData will work as well <3
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[15:49] <RoyK> anyone that knows a usb wifi thingie that works well with a pi?
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[15:49] <buZz> i havent found any that doesnt work (provided its supported under linux)
[15:49] <dewp> sure, 7811UN or so (edimax)
[15:49] <Bilby> RoyK, lots of them including some branded as for raspi
[15:49] <Corsac> any one with 5Ghz band?
[15:50] <Bilby> As always I defer to elinux.org haha http://elinux.org/RPi_USB_Wi-Fi_Adapters
[15:50] * t0mab (~t0mab@stakhanov.u-strasbg.fr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:51] <RoyK> I have Debian Jessie on this pi, and I can't seem to find the non-free repo :(
[15:51] * t0mab (~t0mab@stakhanov.u-strasbg.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:51] <Corsac> add non-free to /etc/apt/sources.list?
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[15:53] <RoyK> doh - I'm tired :P
[15:53] <RoyK> wrong line
[15:53] <RoyK> wrong repo
[15:53] <RoyK> blabla
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[16:09] <dewp> regarding "different voltage domains", is it okay to use one port for two sensors or does everyone has to have its own?
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[16:11] <dewp> depends on their mA consumation I'd guess
[16:12] <mgottschlag> dewp: what do you mean with "port"?
[16:13] <dewp> sorry: I meant pin
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[16:14] <mgottschlag> on one GPIO pin? you can have as many open-drain devices as you want on it
[16:14] <mgottschlag> there is no current flowing into the pin, because the pin is configured as an input
[16:15] <mgottschlag> you don't want more than one pullup though, because the pullup actually defines the current which flows through the sensor's transistor when the switch activates
[16:15] <mgottschlag> (and, because no current flows if no switch is active, you don't need more than one resistor anyways
[16:15] <mgottschlag> )
[16:18] <mgottschlag> dewp: a very similar system is used on I2C buses... because the transistors only pull towards ground, short circuits are not possible (unlike situations where one sensor pulls "up", the other pulls "down")
[16:19] <mgottschlag> http://www.lammertbies.nl/picture/i2c_interface.png
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[16:23] <dewp> ah, i understand! and regarding the voltage supply for the sensors? does every sensor has to have its own supply or can I connect them in series? i think sometimes I dont got the basics right.... I read a lot about basics of electrical engineering but some questions were not answered :S sorry for spamming with newbie stuff
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[16:27] <gordonDrogon> afternoon Pi peeps!
[16:28] <dewp> hello!
[16:28] <mgottschlag> dewp: not in series, in parallel
[16:29] <mgottschlag> all need the same voltage, so you connect all to one supply voltage wire and to one ground wire
[16:29] <dewp> errm. sure :)
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[16:30] <dewp> okay. that makes perfectly sense to me and thats how I made it, but somehow my sense for making sense is not right :)
[16:31] <gordonDrogon> dewp, draw pictures. pictures always help...
[16:32] <dewp> yeah I got it all on "fritzing" great tool
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[16:32] <gordonDrogon> has the schematic capture thing improved? It wasn't so good last time I looked...
[16:32] <gordonDrogon> although I have used it to produce many different pcbs in the past.
[16:33] <dewp> no. that's - even for me - not very good ^^
[16:33] <gordonDrogon> ah well. one day, maybe.
[16:36] <t3chguy> gordonDrogon: schematic capture thing?
[16:37] <t3chguy> Fritzing is a bit dodgy, but it does the job and creates something neat enough looking
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[16:38] <gordonDrogon> t3chguy, the page you enter symbols, resistors, etc. rather than the breadboard or pcb page.
[16:39] <t3chguy> gordonDrogon: so schematic design, the word capture threw me off :P
[16:40] <gordonDrogon> I understand that "schematic capture" is a fairly standard phrase in the industry...
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[16:40] <gordonDrogon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schematic_capture
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[16:45] <t3chguy> learn something new every day
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[16:45] <t3chguy> at 18, I'm not quite part of the industry just yet gordonDrogon
[16:46] <Bilby> #thingsthatmakeyoufeelgrey
[16:49] <gordonDrogon> 18 eh? Ah well... I'm ... much older ...
[16:49] <gordonDrogon> complete with the grey hair. and beard. (when I stop shaving).
[16:49] <Armand> That feeling you get when you're the 4th oldest in the company. �_�
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[16:50] <gordonDrogon> I've been the oldest in several companies I've worked for. Currently the oldest in my company, but that's not difficult as I'm the youngest too - self employed and all that :-)
[16:50] <Armand> lol
[16:50] <Armand> #cheating
[16:51] <t3chguy> gordonDrogon: by that definition, I too am oldest in my company xD
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[16:51] <Bilby> Went to a Jazz performance at a winery on Saturday and we were probably the youngest people there by 10 years but m'eh
[16:51] * methuzla (~methuzla@dsl254-017-117.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:51] <Armand> My wife will be 30 next week.... she's not too happy about it. :P
[16:51] <Armand> I'm like "Pfft... Only 30?!?"
[16:51] * t0mab (~t0mab@stakhanov.u-strasbg.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:52] <Bilby> lol
[16:52] * christo_m (~christo@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:52] <Bilby> ikr, my wife will be 28 in the fall and I’m like man, i remember 28...
[16:52] <christo_m> hey whots the soldermask from printed circuit boards made from?
[16:52] <Armand> I don't remember 30. :P
[16:52] <christo_m> i googled it and it said "a polymer" which means nothing
[16:53] <Armand> Like, damn.. I don't remember last week.. lol
[16:53] <Bilby> lol
[16:53] <christo_m> i just want to know if i can use http://zerocharactersleft.blogspot.ca/2011/11/pcb-as-capacitive-soil-moisture-sensor.html without any leeching in the soil or somethin
[16:53] <Habbie> i vaguely recall being at work earlier today
[16:53] <Bilby> christo_m: it’s made from $something_solder_doesnt_stick_to
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[16:53] <christo_m> Bilby: yes but its also waterproof which is key
[16:53] <Armand> christo_m: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_circuit_board
[16:53] <christo_m> which is the property i care about
[16:53] <christo_m> my concern is how safe is it to just have in the soil
[16:53] <christo_m> can i eat off a plate of PCB?
[16:54] <Bilby> since that’s designed to go into the soil i would imagine it’s safe - besides, the amount of solder mask is very small
[16:54] <christo_m> Bilby: well that particular design has nothing special to make it better for the soil
[16:54] <christo_m> it just so happens to be the material he recommended because it doesn't oxidize and it can handle that candition
[16:54] <christo_m> what i mean is it isnt Soil specific PCB
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[16:55] <Bilby> soil is mostly organic material and crushed rock and clay. the only thing you need to be worried about is moisture, and I don’t think there’s anything on a PCB that will leach out with moisture
[16:56] <christo_m> Bilby: that answers my question
[16:56] <christo_m> thank you.
[16:56] <Armand> Copper will oxide, I'd reckon.
[16:56] <Armand> *oxidise
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[16:56] <christo_m> though i guess it may be possible that the solder mask will scratch from hitting the rocks and what not in the soil
[16:56] <christo_m> so eventually..
[16:56] <christo_m> im not sure how to remedy that though
[16:57] <gordonDrogon> why do you want to put a PCB in the soil?
[16:57] <christo_m> gordonDrogon: please refer to the link i pasted above
[16:57] <christo_m> actually here: http://zerocharactersleft.blogspot.ca/2011/11/pcb-as-capacitive-soil-moisture-sensor.html
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[17:01] <gordonDrogon> ah right.
[17:02] <christo_m> gordonDrogon: safe?
[17:02] <christo_m> i wonder what i would use to coat everything from damage
[17:02] <christo_m> epoxy or something?
[17:03] <christo_m> a lot of the wiring and the pi itself will be in a potentially humid/wet environment so i need to construct some good housing for it
[17:03] <gordonDrogon> I'd consider it "disposable" and order several. However check the PCB substrate - the sides won't be coated in anything and not all PCBs are waterproof...
[17:04] <gordonDrogon> The Pi is the least of the issues - you just use best practices - sealed container, wires coming out the bottom, keep it powered up - heat will dispell moisture.
[17:04] <christo_m> gordonDrogon: well the design and place i submitted it too was the same as he did in the blog
[17:04] <gordonDrogon> I'd be tempted to dip the whole thing in some coating - marine varnish or something.
[17:04] <christo_m> the Eagle design has soldermask applied to both sides and according to his water test it worked
[17:05] <christo_m> gordonDrogon: sounds poisonous lol
[17:05] <christo_m> im also not sure how that will affect the capacitance reading but i guess it shouldnt matter if its the Whole thing
[17:05] <gordonDrogon> tell that to the fishes that millions of yachts are floating over...
[17:05] <christo_m> rekt
[17:05] <christo_m> the plural of fish is fish
[17:05] <Bilby> implying that yacht owners care what happens to fish?
[17:05] <Bilby> :P
[17:06] <gordonDrogon> I don't really care for fishes or fish really and correct me again and I'll simply block you.
[17:06] <christo_m> don't be mad man
[17:06] <christo_m> its not worth
[17:06] <Bilby> The soil sensor’s capacitence measurement would probably be affected by any coating, not sure if you can calibrate it out
[17:06] <christo_m> Bilby: well ill have to calibrate for the solder mask anyway
[17:07] <christo_m> so as long as its consistent it shouldn't matter
[17:07] <gordonDrogon> silicone sealant as used in aquariums.
[17:08] <gordonDrogon> fibreglass gelcoat
[17:08] <gordonDrogon> (as used of the hulls of millions of yachts, canoes, etc.)
[17:09] * gbaman_ (~gbaman@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[17:09] <gordonDrogon> calibrating your own sensor is easy - dip it in a jar of dry soil, take a reading, then water it, take a reading - graph and draw a line...
[17:09] <gordonDrogon> y=mx +c and all that.
[17:09] <christo_m> i was actually going to first use air and water as thresholds
[17:09] <christo_m> then do the soil thing
[17:09] <christo_m> i want to make sure the 6 i ordered work relavitevly close
[17:10] <christo_m> but yes thats the idea
[17:10] <christo_m> im pretty excited. i hope the dht22 i ordered actually works
[17:10] <christo_m> i was watching youtube reviews and people got mixed results.. like one person ordered 10 and 3 of them were off by a pretty big error margin
[17:11] <christo_m> ideally if its off its off consistently so i can just adjust for it in the code
[17:11] <Habbie> the dht11 is notorious for being off
[17:11] <christo_m> no im talking dht22
[17:11] <methuzla> christo_m FWIW: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13322
[17:11] <Habbie> just saying
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[17:12] <christo_m> methuzla: yes se
[17:12] <christo_m> this uses the method of resistance
[17:12] <christo_m> which means theres a current running through it, thats not how the capacitance works which skips the whole oxidization thing
[17:12] <christo_m> methuzla: if you read the post, it mentions the drawbacks with these types of moisture sensors
[17:12] <gordonDrogon> the dht22's and their like are cheap and cheerful.
[17:12] <methuzla> then this: http://wemakethings.net/chirp/
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[17:13] <christo_m> methuzla: im just going to try the capacitance method for now lol
[17:13] <christo_m> seems more bad ass than just buying some off the shelf part
[17:13] <gordonDrogon> christo_m, how are you going to interface this to a Pi ?
[17:13] <christo_m> interface what?
[17:14] <gordonDrogon> the capacitance sensor.
[17:14] <christo_m> http://www.instructables.com/id/Soil-Moisture-Sensor-1/?ALLSTEPS
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[17:16] <methuzla> can pi make reliable time constant measurements?
[17:16] <gordonDrogon> no
[17:16] <gordonDrogon> but it can be reliable enough for this application.
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[17:16] <christo_m> if not i can get an arduino
[17:16] <christo_m> id prefer to keep it small though
[17:17] <gordonDrogon> I've used the same approach for LDRs and a simple analog joystick interface.
[17:17] <methuzla> or look at that chirp project
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[17:17] <gordonDrogon> chirp will do the same, but much neater than a hulking big Pi...
[17:17] <christo_m> well i plan to do many things.
[17:18] <christo_m> soil moisture sensing is one of them
[17:18] <gordonDrogon> however a Pi could be monitoring a dozen or so different plants and send a tweet ...
[17:18] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@ Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[17:18] <christo_m> exactly
[17:18] <Bilby> ESP at each plant and Pi at a central location
[17:18] <methuzla> looks like they basically have an attiny doing the interfacing
[17:18] <Bilby> or wires i suppose
[17:19] * Sisco_ (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco/x-4156292) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:19] <christo_m> Bilby: ESP?
[17:19] <gordonDrogon> it's a tricky thing to get right though - long wires trailing over a garden has it's own issues, powering Pi's in a garden is another issue - getting data back wirelessly from autonomous sensors another issue, etc.
[17:19] <methuzla> ESP8266
[17:19] <christo_m> gordonDrogon: yes the wiring bugs me
[17:19] <christo_m> waterproofing everything.
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[17:21] <Bilby> If it was a greenhouse or other enclosed environment i’d say wires might be the best solution, maybe with a distribution network of some sort
[17:21] <mgottschlag> the proper way probably would be to build something from a low-power microcontroller running off a coin cell
[17:21] <mgottschlag> (if wiring or power are problematic)
[17:21] <Bilby> christo_m how many plants are you looking to monitor?
[17:21] <christo_m> 4
[17:21] <gordonDrogon> things like the spe8266 make it easier, personally I'd have an autonomous Atmega solution - each one sleeping, waking up once an hour, sensing a few sensors in close proximity then pinging off a message wirelessly... but that's mostly because I'm more familiar with ATmegas.
[17:21] <mgottschlag> and then use a microcontroller like e.g. the cc1310, or maybe even nrf24le1, or something like AVR + NRF24L01
[17:21] <gordonDrogon> an atmega will run for months and months on a coule of AA's.
[17:22] <Bilby> the 433mhz transmitters would work with an atmega
[17:22] <Bilby> not sure how you’d avoid collissions
[17:22] <Bilby> how far away are the plants?
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[17:22] <gordonDrogon> Bilby, don't matter. you just ping every 10 +/- random minutes - if no ping recieved for an hour, then whinge ...
[17:23] <mgottschlag> I'd expect multiple years with atmegas actually, with proper power management, they support sub-microampere sleep iirc
[17:23] <Bilby> yeah true
[17:23] <mgottschlag> (when running from AA, probably the battery self-discharge rate might be the bigger problem)
[17:23] <gordonDrogon> mgottschlag, it'll depend more on the radio than anything else, I reckon.
[17:23] <christo_m> Bilby: they're pretty close
[17:23] <christo_m> im not sure i wanna mess around with wireless and batteries and what not
[17:24] <gordonDrogon> christo_m, stick to the Pi for Plan A then - once its going, then you can work on Plan B ...
[17:24] <Bilby> ^
[17:24] <christo_m> ya im just going to wire things
[17:24] <Bilby> I’d say just pi and wires yeah
[17:24] <christo_m> but its humid and could get wet
[17:24] <gordonDrogon> premature optimisation being the root of all evil and all that ...
[17:24] <Bilby> hmm
[17:24] <christo_m> so thats the big issue
[17:24] * Bilby wonders if you could produce cheap enough transponder units for an OCD farmer to litter his fields with them
[17:24] * t0mab (~t0mab@stakhanov.u-strasbg.fr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:25] <Bilby> eh, waterproof box and connectors should be fine
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[17:28] <christo_m> Bilby: ya "waterproof"
[17:28] <christo_m> dunno how that'll work in high humid environments
[17:28] <christo_m> i plan to see condensation inside the box almost instantly
[17:28] <christo_m> like on your headlights on a car
[17:29] <mgottschlag> gordonDrogon: well, a radio which is active once per minute doesn't matter much
[17:29] <Bilby> You can include a dessicant to absorb any initial humidity
[17:29] <gordonDrogon> I did a lot of stuff with outdoor radio equipment some years back...
[17:30] <mgottschlag> or even much larger intervals, plants do not dry out that quickly
[17:30] <mgottschlag> and the rest of the time, the radio just needs to be completely without supply voltage
[17:30] <gordonDrogon> O-ring sealed boxes and cables exiting downwards - but the most important thing was keeping them powered on all the time. turn one off for a few weeks and expect problems when you turn it in again.
[17:30] * giddles (~sag@unaffiliated/giddles) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] <gordonDrogon> some of these ran for years.
[17:31] <mgottschlag> here in germany, tenants often have wireless heating usage meters, with a battery life of 20 years
[17:31] <mgottschlag> I saw an interesting presentation about those in a lecture once
[17:32] <mgottschlag> but that's a much less hostile environment
[17:32] <mgottschlag> they were completely covered in epoxy though
[17:32] <Bilby> I have some “water resistant” cheap security cameras that have run non-stop for 2+ years now in exposed conditions with no problems… same thing, they’re on pretty much all the time.
[17:32] * Noldorin (~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] <Bilby> mgottschlag yeah potted electronics are seriously durable
[17:34] <christo_m> Bilby: im a noob though
[17:34] <christo_m> its literally the pi and a breadboard
[17:34] <christo_m> and nothing is waterproof
[17:35] <Bilby> http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse/Large-Project-Boxes/0000000736
[17:35] <Bilby> or search at your favorite electronics supplier
[17:35] <christo_m> oh true that was ez
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[17:41] <christo_m> mgottschlag: what is "epoxy" exactly
[17:41] <christo_m> is that safe as well?
[17:41] <christo_m> i probably have to coat the connectors to the PCB soil sensors with that
[17:41] <christo_m> so things dont short
[17:41] <mgottschlag> epoxy = two-component glue, or something like that
[17:42] <mgottschlag> I mean, two-component glue usually is some kind of epoxy, although there are others
[17:42] <mgottschlag> but afaik it's pretty safe
[17:42] <christo_m> ya i just dont want my plants , and then subsequently me, to intake these chemicals and shit
[17:43] <mgottschlag> hm, WP says it's dangerous for the environment
[17:43] <mgottschlag> I don't know in what state though
[17:43] <mgottschlag> and I don't think that in completely cured form there is any harm
[17:44] <mgottschlag> you probably should read up on that though
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[17:46] <christo_m> mgottschlag: ya ill just drive myself crazy
[17:47] <christo_m> but i have no way to ensure that the ends of the pcb don't short or whatever, so we'll see
[17:48] <christo_m> i also don't own a lot of these things.. im a developer by trade
[17:48] <christo_m> im used to the intangible
[17:49] <Bilby> Silicone epoxy is usually inert in its dried state
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[17:50] <christo_m> ok
[17:50] <christo_m> Bilby: is that what i should use on the connectors?
[17:50] * Sisco (Sisco@unaffiliated/sisco) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:51] <Bilby> it’s probably fine
[17:52] <Bilby> once you find a possible sealent you can look up its MSDS or data sheet to see if there’s a toxicity or food safety indication
[17:52] * Albori (~Albori@64-251-151-212.fidnet.com) Quit (Quit: Albori)
[17:52] <christo_m> Bilby: oh right
[17:52] <christo_m> im learning things
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[18:45] <SopaXT> Hey!
[18:45] * utack (~utack@2a02:810a:83c0:9394:d63d:7eff:fedb:b2eb) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:46] <SopaXT> I've made an analog TV transmitter, like the ESP8266 hack
[18:46] <Bilby> Hay?
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[18:48] <christo_m> hai
[18:48] <christo_m> SopaXT: whats that mean
[18:48] <buZz> SopaXT: with raspi PLL?
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[18:49] <SopaXT> buZz, nope
[18:49] <buZz> did you have to add a filter for it?
[18:49] <buZz> oh? how then!
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[19:00] <pksato> SopaXT: via SPI ?
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[19:37] <Jidoor> is there any simple way to get a static ip for my wlan connection
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[19:41] <t3chguy> Jidoor: define wlan0 as a static iface rather than a dhcp one?
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[19:49] <dewp> iface wlan0 inet manual in /etc/network/interfaces
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[19:49] <dewp> oh... 8 minutes
[19:49] <dewp> well, at least i knew something :)
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[19:50] <Jidoor_> should i be able to set a static wlan ip with the GUI network interface?
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[19:51] <Jidoor_> i tried putting an ip there but it stopped working
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[19:52] <Jidoor_> also earlier i've tried editing /etc/network/interfaces i have iface wlan0 inet manual there
[19:53] <t3chguy> if you're using NetworkManager (or similar) then you will have to add the static in there
[19:53] <t3chguy> if you're using command line tools to connect to wifi then you can set static via /etc/network/interfaces
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[19:55] <Jidoor_> havent installed networkmanager or any other tools unless they come pre installed
[19:56] <t3chguy> if you're using a graphical environment, then yes
[19:56] <t3chguy> most DEs include some GUI for managing network ifaces
[19:56] <Jidoor_> today i tried the GUI option for the first time earlier i had edited /etc/network/interfaces
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[20:01] <brianx> christo_m: how many pF do you expect to get with that lil purple board, or are you using something else?
[20:02] <christo_m> brianx: pF?
[20:02] <christo_m> oh, that
[20:02] <brianx> pico Farads
[20:02] <christo_m> im not sure
[20:03] <brianx> the speed of your transition will vary based on the pF and the size of your resistor.
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[20:04] <christo_m> In order to be usable the sensor needs to have a resistance that is at least an order of magnitude larger than the discharge resistor in the measuring system, even after being submerged for a significant period of time. I'm planning to use a resistor in the mega-ohm range. The resistance needs to remain above 10 mega-ohm or so. After 12 hours in the glass, the resistance is still above the highest range on my multi-meter. So far so good.
[20:04] <christo_m> looks like that was accounted for
[20:04] <brianx> from your first link today: "I think the capacitance of above design (shown at this web page) is about 25-100pF", way down in the comments.
[20:05] <christo_m> is that bad?
[20:05] <brianx> oh, no. 25pF to 100pF is acceptable. 1pF would be hard.
[20:06] <brianx> i haven't clicked the instructable yet. the steps used impact the curve you'll see.
[20:07] <christo_m> brianx: it looks like someone complained that its possible for the wires to be included in the measurement
[20:07] <christo_m> which throws it off
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[20:08] <brianx> yes, the wires will be a fraction of a pF unless they're long. kinda depends on where your timing circuit is.
[20:08] <christo_m> they will probably be kinda long
[20:08] <christo_m> and the timing circuit will be housed with the pi i imagine..
[20:08] <christo_m> i want to keep the probe minimal
[20:09] <brianx> the purple PCB is shaped kinda like a comb with really wide fingers... i would think the pF would be higher if the fingers were thinner and there were more of them. higher is a good thing here because it makes up for a bit of moisture getting in and for long wires having their own capacitance.
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[20:11] <brianx> you're going to have to calibrate with your long wires included then. make sure you don't use wires that could get moisture between them, you'd be sensing that and not just the soil. (use a cable with wires inside a sheath)
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[20:11] <christo_m> ya thats the plan
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[20:12] <christo_m> anything recommended for minimal interference or?
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[20:12] <christo_m> the ones in my adafruit kit are way too small in length.
[20:12] <brianx> emi? i doubt emi would be a problem here.
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[20:13] <christo_m> true
[20:13] <pksato> not use long cable/wire.
[20:14] <pksato> use shielded cable, two center wire plus shield.
[20:14] <brianx> <3 gnu plot. his graph is clearly made by gnuplot.
[20:14] <brianx> i doubt shielding is needed, but it probably won't hurt.
[20:15] <brianx> as long as it stays dry, the extra capacitance of the shield will be a constant.
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[20:15] <pksato> ideal is to put processing unit on sensor board.
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[20:16] <brianx> it is. but i get that might be hard.
[20:16] <christo_m> it is hard
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[20:16] <christo_m> is this something i can account for in the software?
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[20:16] <christo_m> or is it actually going to make readings less accurate
[20:16] <christo_m> by a big enough margin that i have to care
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[20:17] <pksato> capacitive sensor normaly convert capacitance on frequency.
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[20:18] <brianx> without knowing the pF of the sensor, it's hard to say. at 25pF, your cable could be larger than the sensor but that alone isn't a problem as long as the change in pF at the sensor is large.
[20:18] <pksato> and use a frequency counter (digital) or frequency to voltage converter (analog).
[20:18] <christo_m> ill probably want the digital solution
[20:18] <christo_m> i dont think the pi can handle analog
[20:18] <christo_m> and i dont want to bolt in an arduino unless i absolutely have to
[20:18] <pksato> RPi can not do both.
[20:18] <brianx> a voltage converter won't like the long wires, there is voltage drop over long wires.
[20:18] <christo_m> right so frequency counter is correct.
[20:18] <pksato> pic or avr easy measure frequency.
[20:19] <brianx> the pi has no internal ADC.
[20:19] <christo_m> and rpi should be able to do this
[20:19] <brianx> agreed, the pi CAN do this.
[20:19] <christo_m> ok
[20:19] <brianx> the issue is not if it can, but how hard it will be....
[20:19] <brianx> the pi is incredibly capable. :-)
[20:20] <christo_m> brianx: well
[20:20] <christo_m> im scared now
[20:20] <christo_m> i already invested in having these pcb things printed
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[20:22] <brianx> ok, finally read the code. he's pulling the cap low for a nice long time, then releasing it and simply counting how long it takes to reach that specific pin's threshold. the long pull down is good. the counter is... a source of potential problem.
[20:22] <christo_m> brianx: this is the instructable thing?
[20:22] <brianx> yeah, the instructable's python code.
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[20:23] <brianx> when the code gets suspended to allow another thread to run, that counter stops for an unknown time. throwing the measurement off.
[20:24] <brianx> run it a thousand cycles and average... the suspends should average out and you can calibrate... probably...
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[20:25] <christo_m> im probably not going to use that code
[20:25] <christo_m> i saw a few problems just at first glance
[20:25] <christo_m> not even the math though just the way she wrote it
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[20:28] <PabloPhoenix> What's a good USB to RS232 adapter for the Pi? Does anyone happen to know one that's known to work with it?
[20:28] <brianx> ok. i looked again and see she's not actually using the counter. no clue what time.time() returns.
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[20:29] <christo_m> brianx: ya well ill have to look into what capicitance actually is and how to calculate it later
[20:29] <christo_m> those boards arent coming till the end of the month anyway
[20:29] <christo_m> in the meantime ill be wiring up the DHT22 which looks like a 2 second process.
[20:29] <christo_m> and probably doing a lot of plumbing for the API etc
[20:30] <brianx> yeah, the dht22 looks like it's simple. i assume you'll use gordon's gpio lib and that it'll load the kernel driver if it's not already loaded.
[20:30] <christo_m> uhh, what
[20:31] <christo_m> i was going to use adafruit DHT lib
[20:31] <christo_m> but if there is something better, sure
[20:31] <christo_m> im a nub
[20:31] <brianx> oh, no use adafruit. that's fine. just have to pick one i2c solution and not let several step on each other.
[20:32] <brianx> i'm pretty sure dht uses i2c drivers even though it's not really i2c.
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[20:33] <christo_m> brianx: is there something you recommend
[20:33] <brianx> looks like python time.time() returns a form of float and is in seconds with ms to the right of the decimal.
[20:33] <christo_m> i prefer proper practices
[20:34] <christo_m> and im not afraid of C either
[20:34] <brianx> christo_m: i haven't actually used the dht yet, though i plan to too.
[20:34] <christo_m> ya my fear right now is that its off..
[20:34] <brianx> personally, i'll be writing something in C, but will likely use a lib of some sort for the actual reading.
[20:34] <christo_m> i need these measurements to be pretty accurate
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[20:35] <christo_m> not lab-style accurate but not a toy either
[20:35] <brianx> christo_m: dht sensors are not accurate nor fast.
[20:35] <PabloPhoenix> Alternative to my question about USB to RS232 adapters - if anyone knows how to get the one with USB ID 1A86:7523 to behave properly (pass loopback tests, etc) in Raspbian, that would be great.
[20:35] <christo_m> brianx: well i know about not fast
[20:35] <christo_m> you can only poll it every 2 seconds
[20:35] <christo_m> ugh
[20:35] <brianx> but they are better than nothing. you get a number back that does often reflect real change in humidity over time.
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[20:37] <brianx> i think the suggestion i read for the dht was to use 3 of them and report the problem when 1 doesn't match the other 2 (after calibration adjustments are applied) on average over a few hours or days.
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[20:40] <brianx> so far i've only been able to come up with a cheap/simple way to do a one point calibration... multiple points require chemicals that aren't in the grocery or drug store.
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[20:42] <brianx> christo_m: this person covers way more detail than needed, but the non-iodized table salt calibration point seems ideal for a 1 point calibration. http://www.kandrsmith.org/RJS/Misc/Hygrometers/calib_dht22.html
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[20:56] <christo_m> one point calibration?
[20:56] <christo_m> oh for the pcb capacitance thing?
[20:56] <christo_m> ya maybe ill buy some more dht sensors then..
[20:57] <christo_m> ill just try 1 for now, trying to keep costs minimal
[20:57] <brianx> no, the one point is for the dht.
[20:58] <brianx> you're going to have to test dry and saturated soil and probably just have to assume it's linear between.
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[21:00] <christo_m> brianx: oh ya ive come across this before
[21:00] <christo_m> not sure how it helps me though
[21:00] <christo_m> i was just going to compare it with some other therom units
[21:01] <brianx> christo_m: you said accurate, the salts calibration is your best bet for accuracy. that and using 3 sensors to monitor each other.
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[21:02] <christo_m> brianx: sorry what part of the article cover sthat?
[21:02] <brianx> i'm also thinking about just averaging what the local weatherbug station says with what i get outside. it's only 3 blocks away. using that to build a calibration table.
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[21:03] <christo_m> ya
[21:03] <christo_m> this seems too complicated
[21:03] <brianx> that article doesn't mention 3 sensors, but that blogger talks about failure in one of their other blogs.
[21:03] <brianx> table salt is one of their points though, 75% humidity across temperature.
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[21:05] <brianx> it does seem complicated. my application is comfort level and probably doesn't need the sensitivity that gardening needs.
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[21:06] <brianx> for gardening, i plan to use the weather service forecast to adjust watering times and call it a day.
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[21:08] <RoyK> brianx: if you're concerned about system failure, make it redundant - double systems talking to oneanother
[21:09] <brianx> RoyK: that's the idea. i'll have 3 sensors in 3 rooms to get local humidity but will flag a problem if one changes compared to the others over the long term.
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[21:11] <RoyK> brianx: hm.... what if someone drops a glass of water in one of the rooms? if the doors are closed?
[21:11] <brianx> the flagging might be as simple as gnuplot and an eyeball.
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[21:11] <brianx> RoyK: then there will be a short term spike. no biggie.
[21:11] <RoyK> or a munin plugin
[21:11] <RoyK> I'd use munin for that
[21:12] <RoyK> no need to reinvent the wheel
[21:13] <RoyK> (not all the time, that is)
[21:13] <brianx> might throw something like munin at the database, sure. i want the main web gui to be custom to me and my wants.
[21:13] <RoyK> munin just uses rrd files
[21:14] <RoyK> but it's a nice framework for collecting data
[21:14] <RoyK> graphite is perhaps a bit better - a *wee* bit better :D
[21:14] <RoyK> that is, graphite doesn't collect, but others do
[21:14] <RoyK> but then, you can start off with munin plugins and use those with graphite
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[21:15] <brianx> so maybe not munin for me then. but i'm sure there are options that can just connect to my data and add some intelligence to it.
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[21:15] <RoyK> brianx: munin takes a few minutes to setup and a bit more to write a plugin, but you'll probably see it's a good start
[21:15] <RoyK> brianx: then advance to graphite and the likes
[21:16] <RoyK> or just start with graphite
[21:16] <brianx> lol, "MRTG done right" from the wiki.
[21:16] <RoyK> yeah!
[21:16] <brianx> it's been awhile, but MRTG was right for me.
[21:16] <RoyK> hehe
[21:17] <RoyK> I used mrtg too - some time back
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[21:17] <RoyK> I guess I'll be using munin for rather some time anyway
[21:17] <RoyK> some things are best left simple
[21:17] <brianx> someone did a cisco plugin that made it almost slam dunk easy. i swear i had a dozen routers and 40 switches up in a day.
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[21:19] * RoyK just configured his first native IPv6-only pi for production
[21:19] <brianx> nice.
[21:19] <RoyK> ok - we could NAT it, but we don't want to
[21:19] <RoyK> better look forward
[21:19] <brianx> my isp set up v6 a couple years ago now and i've still not touched it.
[21:20] <RoyK> native or 6rd?
[21:20] <brianx> no clue.
[21:20] <brianx> haven't touched it. :-\
[21:20] <RoyK> 6rd is like "easy ipv6 tunneling over ipv4" somehow
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[21:21] <RoyK> I've been bitching my ISP for years for ipv6 - sems they'll give me a /62 on 6rd soon
[21:21] <RoyK> which is ok for 6rd, but would be rather terrible for native
[21:21] <RoyK> ipv6 was *designed* to give every subscriber /48
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[21:23] <brianx> it will be strange to have every device directly addressable from the outside. not sure how i feel about having to be that certain about my rules.
[21:23] * RoyK mutters something about firewalling
[21:23] <brianx> iot devices don't have a firewall.
[21:24] <brianx> so they have to be blocked at the main firewall.
[21:24] <RoyK> well, there are extensions for that, to use a private address space internally
[21:24] <brianx> ahh. that might be my path. haven't touched it yet.
[21:24] <brianx> v4 is familiar.
[21:25] <brianx> v6 for me is a solution looking for a problem.
[21:25] <RoyK> about time to test it, I guess - the address space for ipv4 is empty in nothern america
[21:25] <RoyK> and asia
[21:25] <RoyK> soon in europe
[21:25] <RoyK> only africa has some large blocks left
[21:26] <brianx> there are way too many devices with a public IP that don't need them still.
[21:27] <RoyK> wrong answer
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[21:28] <brianx> my wife's laptop at work having a public ip is more trouble than it's worth.
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[21:28] <brianx> every device there has a public ip.
[21:28] <brianx> v4
[21:28] <RoyK> brianx: we have public IP addresses for every PC at work, IPv4, at hioa.no
[21:28] <RoyK> works well
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[21:29] <RoyK> but then, we patch them regularly
[21:29] <brianx> seems like a waste of a limited resource.
[21:29] <RoyK> not at all
[21:29] <RoyK> it's the other way around
[21:30] <RoyK> when people hide behind a NAT something, they take patching easy
[21:30] <RoyK> it's not really a problem, like, to patch regularly
[21:30] <brianx> not suggesting you don't patch.
[21:30] <brianx> patching is good.
[21:30] <RoyK> and then someone plugs an usb thing into a machine or brings a laptop back from home and *boom*
[21:31] <RoyK> brianx: just saying it works
[21:31] <brianx> as does nat.
[21:31] <RoyK> brianx: most universities in norway do it that way
[21:31] <RoyK> nat doesn't really help any more than a local firewall
[21:32] <brianx> yes, i know universities do. that's why my wife has a public ip on her laptop. a waste of a resource.
[21:32] <RoyK> and a modern pc (even a raspberry pi or even smaller things) can do firewalling easily
[21:32] <RoyK> hrmf
[21:32] <RoyK> please
[21:32] <RoyK> the point is that we need ipv6, ok?
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[21:33] <brianx> i see the point.
[21:33] <RoyK> it's about time to learn it
[21:33] <brianx> and for people who want every device to have a public ip, that's fine.
[21:33] <RoyK> with ipv6, most things will have a public ip
[21:33] <brianx> but putting a public v4 on a laptop isn't useful for most people.
[21:33] <RoyK> as with ipv4 in the old days
[21:34] <RoyK> brianx: really, it is, when it comes to some protocols like SIP and the likes
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[21:35] <RoyK> some protocols need to use application level handover of network level addresses, which fucks up NAT perfectly well (or fucks up the protocol over NAT)
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[21:35] <brianx> she doesn't use sip. when i last used sip, i used a private ip.
[21:35] <RoyK> ever tried to make SIP work over NAT?
[21:35] <brianx> i have.
[21:35] <RoyK> sometimes it works
[21:35] <brianx> no troubles at all.
[21:35] <RoyK> but only sometimes
[21:35] <RoyK> suddenly a port changes and boom
[21:36] <RoyK> NAT is a way to avoid lack of addresses
[21:36] <RoyK> ok?
[21:36] <brianx> it is.
[21:36] <RoyK> security isn't the reason it was invented
[21:36] <brianx> that's correct.
[21:36] <RoyK> so better go back to security the way it should be
[21:36] <RoyK> and don't use NAT
[21:36] <RoyK> NAT isn't part of IPv6
[21:37] * h4x3 (~gwild@ip4d17ee01.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:37] <brianx> i'm not sure how i feel about my refrigerator having a public ip.
[21:38] <brianx> i can't patch it. i have little control over it except at the firewall.
[21:39] <brianx> i don't have the budget to install a managed switch to isolate it internally.
[21:41] * Coldblackice (~anonz@unaffiliated/coldblackice) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:44] <brianx> or maybe television instead of refrigerator. those all have an ip already today.
[21:45] <Valduare> shesh how many days does it take to synchronize with the bitcoin blockchain now of days lol
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[22:00] <ledil> hello ive got a 8188cu wlan stick connected to my rpi2 and my download speed is really slow ... any ideas ?
[22:01] * GerhardSchr_ (~GerhardSc@unaffiliated/gerhardschr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:02] <christo_m> brianx: ya this is an indoor setup
[22:02] <christo_m> i dont have that luxury
[22:02] <christo_m> ill probably have to invest in multiple sensors
[22:02] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:02] <christo_m> in reference to using weather API data etc
[22:02] <brianx> christo_m: ahh, makes sense. yes, multiple is a good idea if you need reliability.
[22:03] * Tach[Away] is now known as Tachyon`
[22:03] <ledil> any ideas why wifi usb stick slows down my download ? is it a general problem ?
[22:03] <brianx> even buying a bunch, it's still cheaper than a real reliable solution.
[22:04] <christo_m> a few should work though
[22:04] <christo_m> wisdow of the crowd
[22:04] <christo_m> wisdom*
[22:04] <christo_m> or law of averages , whatever
[22:04] <christo_m> the data sheet claims probably don't hold throughout the temperature distribution but i wont be going hotter than 30 degrees celisus, and not less than 10 degrees celisus so it should be fine
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[22:10] * Tachyon` is now known as Tach[Away]
[22:12] <brianx> yeah, +/-10C around room temp should be fine. of course you will get different numbers at different temperatures.
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[22:17] <LazyAngel> ledil: poor wifi signal?
[22:18] <LazyAngel> i don't think it would be a problem having the pi in lower temperatures either. E.g below 0 degrees C
[22:19] <christo_m> LazyAngel: it isnt the pi necessarily but the DHT22 sensor im using
[22:19] <christo_m> i made the mistake of only buying one assuming i would get enough accuracy
[22:19] <christo_m> but im youtubing a lot and seeing a lot of variance in batches.
[22:20] <ledil> LazyAngel: http://pastebin.com/crCeD627
[22:20] <brianx> christo_m: i just looked at the curve for the 10M and 25pF. assuming it changes from 25pF to 35pF when it gets wet, then your change is from about 140uS to 210uS. hard numbers for a pi to measure.
[22:20] <LazyAngel> christo_m: ahh, those are usually set to a fixed range
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[22:21] <christo_m> brianx: what do you recommend?
[22:21] <christo_m> arduino?
[22:21] <christo_m> :(
[22:21] <christo_m> its time to give up on my dreams
[22:21] <christo_m> as is tradition
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[22:22] <brianx> any small arduino could measure that easier, though it's not particularly accurate that fast either. you might get a reliable 10 steps of resolution.
[22:22] <LazyAngel> ledil: looks good. What is low speed?
[22:22] <LazyAngel> ledil: you can try this speedtest: https://github.com/sivel/speedtest-cli
[22:23] <ledil> Im currently running it and will post the result on pastebin, om
[22:23] <brianx> christo_m: a few more if you use the capture on one pin, but the 328p has only one capture pin.
[22:24] * ml1 (~ml1@p200300DE8BC33F000D1B27B8577DF4FF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] <christo_m> brianx: okay sooo
[22:24] <christo_m> what do you recommend
[22:24] * GuruMonk (~GuruMonk@ Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
[22:24] <brianx> christo_m: and so far i've not seen a library for using the capture pin.
[22:24] <christo_m> wait this is all based on that "zero characters left" blog post i posted earlier?
[22:24] * Garry` (~garry@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[22:25] <ledil> LazyAngel: http://pastebin.com/zrtnn1nZ
[22:25] <brianx> christo_m: yes. that sensor.
[22:25] <ledil> LazyAngel: it is so terrible slow and with ethernet cable everything is working
[22:25] * WLL (~WLL@unaffiliated/wll) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[22:25] <brianx> the blogger never posted actual capacitance that i could find. it was mentioned by a commenter.
[22:26] <christo_m> brianx: hmm
[22:26] <brianx> christo_m: you've already ordered the boards... the truth will come when you have one and measure it.
[22:26] <LazyAngel> ledil: and other wifi devices works well?
[22:26] <ledil> yes
[22:26] <brianx> if it's 25pF when dry and 100pF when wet, that's a whole lot easier to detect.
[22:27] <christo_m> brianx: say it isnt so easy to detect
[22:27] <ledil> my notebook results 50mbit/10mbit
[22:27] <christo_m> does that imply determining moisture is an issue, or just getting faster updates?
[22:27] <christo_m> like im not sure how this whole thing works with x steps of resolution etc
[22:27] <christo_m> i dont really understand capacitance, or how its measured in this case either
[22:27] <christo_m> i see frequence to volts, and measuring frequency, etc
[22:28] <LazyAngel> that is really strange. Might be some issues with the module used by that wifi
[22:28] * Zparx (~Fox@dslb-188-108-120-215.188.108.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:28] <LazyAngel> ledil: sorry, I have no idea. I would start testing the wifi on the laptop. First on windows then on a vmware on the laptop
[22:28] <LazyAngel> ledil: or the log files on the pi
[22:29] <brianx> christo_m: if the capacitance is very small and varies by a tiny amount, then you'll get the best results by measuring frequency locally. or at least generating a square wave locally to transmit digitally.
[22:29] <christo_m> locally meaning onboard the PCB
[22:29] <christo_m> that probably isnt an option given the environment it'll be in
[22:29] <christo_m> and my limited understanding.
[22:29] <brianx> ideally, yes.
[22:29] <christo_m> when i get these things how do i conduct the test
[22:30] <christo_m> exactly what he did with the multimeter?
[22:30] <RoyK> anyone that knows anything about an upcoming rpi3? I only see rumors
[22:30] * muld (~muld@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/muld) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:30] <brianx> i saw you talking to others about potting. that seemed to be a good solution for protection from the environment.
[22:30] * ubii (~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:30] <brianx> sorry, didn't see what he did with the multimeter. i'd use the C feature of mine but not sure if yours has one.
[22:31] <christo_m> Continuity?
[22:31] <christo_m> i dunno either
[22:31] <brianx> capacitance.
[22:31] <christo_m> oh..
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[22:31] <christo_m> brianx: i dunno what "potting" is lol
[22:31] * ml1 (~ml1@p200300DE8BC33F000D1B27B8577DF4FF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:31] <christo_m> the plant is potted, yes
[22:31] <brianx> LCR meters have it, i managed to get a meter with CR but no L. (i inherited it, didn't buy it)
[22:31] <brianx> lol christo_m
[22:31] <buZz> christo_m: potting = putting into epoxy
[22:32] <christo_m> lol
[22:32] <buZz> lumping it up
[22:32] <brianx> ^^^
[22:32] <christo_m> okay well
[22:32] <christo_m> sorry
[22:32] <christo_m> the nomenclature is mixing with what im doing here
[22:32] <buZz> its ok
[22:32] <buZz> we dont all know everything
[22:32] <brianx> you were talking to others earlier about potting. i just assumed. i saw good recommendations.
[22:32] <christo_m> but yes, i just wasnt sure if epoxy is a) dangerous (which people have said a silicon one once dried is inert) and b) if it affects the capacitance measurement
[22:32] <christo_m> by dipping the whole thing in there
[22:33] * GivenToCode (~GivenToCo@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[22:33] <christo_m> buZz: ya it was also confusion since potting is a term in gardening lol
[22:33] <christo_m> anyway, i dont want chemicals leaching through the soil or something so ya
[22:33] * H4ndy is now known as h4ndy
[22:33] <buZz> ^_^
[22:34] <buZz> christo_m: 'i repot u' is also a meme
[22:34] <brianx> christo_m: i'm slightly concerned that dipping the sensor might be too thick. capacitance depends on distance and you're already going to have to measure a pretty small capacitor.
[22:34] <christo_m> buZz: Reported.
[22:34] <christo_m> brianx: right.
[22:34] <buZz> christo_m: of ppl running to admins to tell on you :P , which i always answer with this pic ; http://i.imgur.com/q4qKJpv.jpg
[22:34] <christo_m> lolol
[22:35] <christo_m> i got banned for saying "hey guys"
[22:35] <christo_m> well, banned for arguing about it
[22:35] <christo_m> PC culture etc
[22:35] <buZz> in ##feminism ?
[22:35] <christo_m> no, the expressjs channel
[22:35] <brianx> yeah, people get militant.
[22:35] <christo_m> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[22:35] <christo_m> im just trying to pot some epoxy
[22:35] <christo_m> or whatever
[22:36] * Armand (~armand@office.prgn.misp.co.uk) Quit (Quit: 404: Nerd not found!)
[22:36] <christo_m> the elitism is certainly tame in here for a freenode channel
[22:36] <brianx> are your boards going to have solder resist like those purple ones do?
[22:36] <christo_m> brianx: ye, theres a soldermask on them
[22:36] <christo_m> thats where the waterproofing comes from
[22:36] <brianx> good.
[22:36] <christo_m> just not sure if that'll chip over time constantly hitting rock etc
[22:36] <brianx> it's nice an thin.
[22:36] <christo_m> brianx: i literally sent over his eagle designs so
[22:37] <christo_m> whatever he has there is what im getting.
[22:37] * pm001 (~pm0001@ip-178-200-239-209.hsi07.unitymediagroup.de) Quit ()
[22:37] <brianx> if one chips and stops reading... throw it out.
[22:37] <christo_m> ya that may get expensive
[22:37] <christo_m> especially if i move this from prototype to some kind of actual product
[22:37] <brianx> ahh
[22:38] <christo_m> cannabis growing may be legal in canada eventually and i want to be early in the market with some things
[22:38] <christo_m> so far my indirect competitor is www.getleaf.co
[22:38] <Bilby> is that what this project is for? lol
[22:38] <christo_m> Bilby: on record, no
[22:38] <brianx> christo_m: "product" is a whole different class from what i've been talking about... i'm thinking one off and hand calibration, not product.
[22:38] <christo_m> brianx: well, this is me prototyping
[22:39] <brianx> yeah, so... for a product you really should do the capacitance to frequency bit locally.
[22:39] <christo_m> yes
[22:39] <christo_m> but then i know whats going to happen
[22:39] * ouned (~ouned@2a02:810d:1f00:204:91f:c916:5fa:324a) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:39] <christo_m> those things will be wireless units you shove into the pot
[22:40] <christo_m> and they're going to be more advanced
[22:40] <christo_m> whats going to be dumb is powering those things... i guess a lot of double A's
[22:40] <brianx> yeah, AA and wifi are not exactly compatible.
[22:41] <brianx> AA and nrf24l01+ are somewhat compatible if you limit read rates.
[22:42] <christo_m> i dunno if id use wifi
[22:42] <christo_m> theres gotta be something more low power
[22:42] <christo_m> bluetooth maybe? i havent looked into it
[22:42] <christo_m> because its over my head and i just want to get something together, even if its cobbled wires etc
[22:42] <brianx> you're in for a big headache getting power levels down to AA battery levels.
[22:42] <christo_m> brianx: then im not sure how id power those things
[22:42] <brianx> power over the signal line probably.
[22:43] * shantorn (~manjaro-m@67-5-235-247.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:43] <christo_m> ??
[22:43] <brianx> 2 wires using a 1-wire like protocol.
[22:43] <christo_m> so its still wired.
[22:43] <brianx> "1-wire" being a brand name for a system that does power and data over a single pair of wires.
[22:43] <christo_m> ya no i get it
[22:43] <Bilby> 433mhz serial
[22:44] <Bilby> easy cheesy lemon squeezy
[22:44] <christo_m> its just more wires in a grow operation is generally bad
[22:44] <christo_m> just more things to worry about
[22:44] <brianx> Bilby: yeah, those are simple and not too bad for power.
[22:44] <christo_m> Bilby: where do i read
[22:44] <christo_m> http://www.instructables.com/id/Wireless-communication-Arduino-RF/ this i guess
[22:45] <Bilby> This is probably most accessible - https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10534
[22:45] <Bilby> the nice thing is since it’s low-level and transmit-only there isn’t a lot of extra programming involved
[22:45] <christo_m> how much power do they take
[22:45] * beardfish (~beardfish@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[22:45] <christo_m> says 5v but like amps/hr?
[22:46] <christo_m> i wonder if i can fit these wireless transponders with solar panels to charge themselves
[22:46] <Bilby> always check the data sheets
[22:46] <christo_m> since they'll be in direct light a lot of the time
[22:46] * beardfish (~beardfish@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:290:faff:fe70:a3b8) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:46] <christo_m> i also dont need constant communication so
[22:46] <Bilby> current consumption is 8mA
[22:47] <mgottschlag> christo_m: you can add a PMOSFET to completely switch the RF module off while you do not need it
[22:47] <brianx> christo_m: wifi like the esp8266, probably not without a rather large collector. 488mhz or nrfl01+, probably.
[22:47] <mgottschlag> and the arduino just has an AVR chip, that one can be run much lower than 1mA
[22:47] <LazyAngel> RoyK: only seen an article in swedish that says it will be out in february/march. No details
[22:48] <mgottschlag> and the ESP8266 consumes lots of current :)
[22:48] <Bilby> something like this would be a little more expensive to implement but would give you ‘listen’ capabilities so they could act as repeaters or wait for other traffic to end to avoid interruption - https://www.futurlec.com/Radio-2400MHZ.shtml
[22:49] <christo_m> Bilby: oh i didnt realize this
[22:49] <christo_m> if multiple transponders communicate at once
[22:49] <christo_m> it obfuscates the channel?
[22:49] <christo_m> makes sense.
[22:50] <christo_m> ya this is getting too complicated.. ill just use the wired thing
[22:50] <christo_m> if it proves to be difficult to calculate the capacitance ill have to look into onboard solutions, but even then ill still keep it wired for now
[22:50] <Bilby> yep. the cheapest way to get around it is to set them to go at different times and wait for random variation, you might lose a packet here and there but not too bad
[22:50] <christo_m> Bilby: ya thats what i figured
[22:51] <brianx> that rmf70 looks like a copy of the nrf24l01+
[22:51] <Bilby> not sure if it’s a copy or just a simliar interface design to make re-engineering applications easier
[22:52] <Bilby> they have an 868mhz transceiver module that looks handy too
[22:53] <Bilby> an APRS-like library with repeater functions would be super handy for large scale - drop a few of them out in the field with battery packs and solar cells and just mesh the thing
[22:53] <brianx> the nrf clones are cheap. not sure i'd bother with a company that uses a similar interface that is slightly different.
[22:53] <Bilby> of course you could do it with an ESP8266 too, ease of implementing as a tradeoff for the higher current consumption
[22:53] * aphirst (~aphirst@aftr-185-17-207-235.dynamic.mnet-online.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:53] <christo_m> this transceiver route looks like the way id go
[22:53] <Bilby> actually i’m not sure you can do repeater functions with the 8266...
[22:53] <christo_m> anyway to make these units as modular as possible
[22:54] <christo_m> cant we do some over the air powering ala Tesla styles or
[22:54] * Gallcobair (a77f688f@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[22:54] <christo_m> i just hate batteries
[22:54] <Bilby> not without cooking anything between the power emitter and your devices ;)
[22:55] <brianx> scavenged power is really small. it's possible but not easy.
[22:55] <christo_m> Bilby: oh true
[22:55] <christo_m> have you guys messed with lithium ion batteries hooked up to solar panels or something?
[22:56] <brianx> if you can't do wires, use the smallest power radio you can and given that you have tons of light, seriously consider solar cells.
[22:56] <christo_m> brianx: i can do wires
[22:56] <christo_m> but like you said it makes measuring the moisture harder
[22:56] <christo_m> and thats all this is doing.. it makes me wonder if i start making it its own isolated unit.. i should pack more features
[22:56] <christo_m> like lux sensor , maybe pH probe
[22:56] <brianx> making this commercial reliability is the harder.
[22:56] * TheSin (~TheSin@gateway.bluefalls.ca) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[22:56] <christo_m> though pH in the soil is pretty bad way of doing it, you should be checking the actual solution.
[22:57] <Bilby> yep, packaging will be the big pain
[22:57] <christo_m> bah, i wont worry about it now
[22:57] <christo_m> otherwise ill get discouraged and i wont attempt anything :(
[22:57] <brianx> you can probably do this on a one-off scale with wires and the sensor you have on the way with long wires to the sensor.
[22:58] <Bilby> once you find a transceiver unit that is licensed to work in your area and get it working properly, you’d want to contract a company to make boards for you. Box it in a fitted case with as much integration as possible
[22:58] <Bilby> always start with the basics
[22:58] <Bilby> hence “hello world"
[22:58] <brianx> ^^^ yep.
[22:58] <christo_m> ya thats what im doing
[22:59] <christo_m> too much overengineering right now
[22:59] <christo_m> neckbearding
[22:59] <Bilby> Usually for me step 1 is “i want to do this thing”
[22:59] <brianx> so test the boards without coating and with short wires. get an LCR meter if you don't have one.
[22:59] <Bilby> step 2 is “okay, now what do i want it to do” followed by realizing that it’s a HUGE amount of work
[22:59] <Bilby> step 3-5000 is winding that back to “lets see if we can get this LED to blink” and building from there
[23:00] <christo_m> hhahah
[23:00] * BobbyJr (~BobbyJr@robsworld.plus.com) Quit (Quit: Mac is asleep..)
[23:00] <christo_m> ya my first order of business is successfully wiring and reading from the DHT22
[23:00] <christo_m> but thats super easy
[23:00] <christo_m> even for a pleb like me
[23:00] <brianx> you'll solve the dht in a day or two.
[23:00] <brianx> it's not bad and well documented.
[23:00] <christo_m> day or two? come on im not disabled
[23:01] <christo_m> i watched the youtube tutorial
[23:01] <christo_m> its super easy
[23:01] <brianx> lol
[23:01] <brianx> yep, first pass in an hour.
[23:01] <brianx> working...
[23:01] <christo_m> then 2 days of LED blinking?
[23:01] <brianx> maybe on the first pass, not all that likely.
[23:02] <Bilby> It took me a week to get my 8266 connected to an AP
[23:02] * ContactLeft (~user@unaffiliated/contactleft) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:02] <Bilby> finally realized all the problems I was having was down to not enough current available
[23:02] <Bilby> I do software and hardware the same way, start from scratch and build everything as a little thing before connecting it to the big think
[23:02] <Bilby> *thing
[23:03] <brianx> Bilby: took me a couple days too. turned out i had my level shift divider resistors backwards.
[23:03] <Bilby> that way when something inevitibly goes boots-up you can take it back apart and figure out what went wrong
[23:03] <Bilby> hah! curses. did you let the smoke out?
[23:03] <brianx> nope, i had it so low that the voltage wasn't reliably being received by the esp.
[23:03] <brianx> signal
[23:04] <brianx> after another few hours, i was programming it in the arduino ide and i've not looked back.
[23:06] <Bilby> ah, nice
[23:06] <Bilby> I had the hardest time with the AT commands, flashed CodeLUA and had much more luck
[23:06] <Bilby> the python port has me excited, too
[23:07] <brianx> AT worked for me right off once i got the level shift right. though i just connected and never played with sending data.
[23:08] <Bilby> I had no problems connecting to an AP and getting an IP address with AT commands, but connecting to a web page and requesting information seemed impossible
[23:08] <brianx> ahh, i never tried that.
[23:08] <Bilby> I was probably doing something simple incorrectly but lua was easy enough to do what i needed
[23:09] * Gallcobair (a77f688f@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #raspberrypi
[23:09] <brianx> i knew i didn't want to use AT so i just was getting my wiring set up and talking.
[23:09] <Bilby> honestly what i’d really like to see is a flash that just handles basic connecting to wifi and then simply passes off everyhthing else to serial
[23:09] <Bilby> what are you using?
[23:10] <brianx> WiFiTelnetToSerial Example for arduino does just that. i'm mostly using a variant of that right now.
[23:11] <brianx> i've played with other code but atm i'm using my only esp as a debugging interface on another project.
[23:11] <Bilby> gotcha
[23:11] <brianx> meant to order 2 but made a mistake and only ordered one.
[23:11] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@unaffiliated/keanu73) Quit (Quit: Gotta go to bed or something. See ya!)
[23:12] <brianx> a simple webserver is bizarre but easy.
[23:13] <brianx> oh, and i always pull out their zeroconfig crap. dhcp to the router and the router knows it's name and serves it via dns to anyone on the lan who asks.
[23:18] * Tach[Away] is now known as Tachyon`
[23:24] * Valduare (~nsstratto@97-94-35-98.static.ftbg.wi.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:25] <Valduare> hows it going
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[23:28] * GreeningGalaxy (~ellie@2620:0:2250:101c:42f0:2fff:fe53:e1f8) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:29] <GreeningGalaxy> can someone help me understand what dhcpcd does and why it seems to fail so often?
[23:30] * pppingme (~pppingme@unaffiliated/pppingme) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:30] <GreeningGalaxy> I'm using wicd-curses for wifi, which works great, but *only* after I run `sudo dhcpcd wlan0` in a terminal. Putting that command in startup scripts doesn't work, sticking it in an alias along with wicd-curses doesn't work, it simply fails silently at "obtaining IP address" unless I type `sudo dhcpcd wlan0` in the terminal right before `sudo wicd-curses`
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[23:31] <GreeningGalaxy> I notice a message like "starting dhcpcd for all interfaces" on boot, but for some reason I still have to run that command
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[23:34] <gordonDrogon> dhcpd is a daemon that gives-out IP addresses to other devices on the network.
[23:35] <LazyAngel> dhcpcd is the client version
[23:35] * cybr (~cybr@unaffiliated/cybr) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:35] <LazyAngel> so the one that makes sure you receive an IP
[23:35] <gordonDrogon> ah. dyslexia strikes again.
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[23:35] <GreeningGalaxy> I think I gathered that, I just don't know why it dies every five seconds
[23:36] <LazyAngel> GreeningGalaxy: pastebin logs or output of the error?
[23:36] <GreeningGalaxy> there is no error
[23:36] <LazyAngel> GreeningGalaxy: so how do you know it fails?
[23:36] <GreeningGalaxy> I'd still be googling if I had anything to go on
[23:36] <gordonDrogon> I run dhclient rather than dhcpcd
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[23:37] <GreeningGalaxy> I don't even technically know that it fails, actually. I just know that booting up, then typing `sudo wicd-curses` and trying to connnect to wifi *always* fails unless I manually run dhcpcd first.
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[23:38] <LazyAngel> GreeningGalaxy: you should have that run automatically with /etc/init.d/dhcpcd
[23:39] <GreeningGalaxy> and more recently, it seems that I have to run dhcpcd and then *immediately* connect to wifi - if I run dhcpcd, do something else, and then try to connect to wifi, it fails unless I do dhcpcd again.
[23:39] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:39] <LazyAngel> GreeningGalaxy: try /etc/init.d/dhcpcd start
[23:39] <LazyAngel> GreeningGalaxy: instead of 'sudo dhcpcd wlan0'
[23:40] <GreeningGalaxy> ok
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[23:41] <LazyAngel> GreeningGalaxy: if that doesn't work, it means it is not setup correctly
[23:41] <LazyAngel> so then you need to find the correct config file
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[23:43] <LazyAngel> i have usually used dhclient as gordonDrogon mentioned.
[23:43] <LazyAngel> you can check this file: /etc/network/interfaces
[23:43] <GreeningGalaxy> that says [ ok ], `systemctl status dhcpcd` says it's running, but wifi still doesn't work
[23:43] <LazyAngel> not sure if that is used by dhcpcd as well
[23:44] <LazyAngel> that means the config file for dhcpcd is not correct
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[23:44] <GreeningGalaxy> ok, I've never touched it, how do I tell what's wrong with it?
[23:44] <gordonDrogon> maybe jessie now uses dhcpcd ? I'm still on wheezy here.
[23:44] * duckpuppy (~patrickai@h141.209.132.40.static.ip.windstream.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:44] <LazyAngel> let me check
[23:45] <LazyAngel> yes, it has switched to dhcpcd and uses /etc/network/interfaces
[23:46] <GreeningGalaxy> okay, so what should that look like?
[23:46] <LazyAngel> by doing 'sudo dhcpcd wlan0' you manually ask for an ip address for that interface. But it will not update to a new ip when that is needed and will not be persistent between boots
[23:46] <GreeningGalaxy> I've tried both `iface wlan0 inet dhcp` and `iface wlan0 inet manual` and neither seems to be any different than the other
[23:47] <LazyAngel> GreeningGalaxy: i will have to google it, but did you do a restart of the service in between the changes?
[23:48] <GreeningGalaxy> uh, I left them like that across several reboots
[23:48] <Sonny_Jim> Well, I wouldn't call it 'manual'
[23:49] <Sonny_Jim> But yeah, it starts a program that listens on the wlan0 interface for an IP address
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[23:50] <LazyAngel> GreeningGalaxy: and it worked between each reboot?
[23:50] <LazyAngel> the config is: /etc/dhcpcd.conf
[23:50] <GreeningGalaxy> no, it's never worked properly unless I manually request an ip with dhcpcd
[23:50] * lemonzest (~lemonzest@unaffiliated/lemonzest) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:52] <LazyAngel> that makes more sense
[23:53] <LazyAngel> I don't understand how the dhcpcd works. You can try:
[23:54] <GreeningGalaxy> so what does wicd-curses even do when it says 'obtaining ip address' if not dhcpcd?
[23:55] <LazyAngel> change the /etc/network/interfaces
[23:55] <LazyAngel> auto wlan0
[23:55] <LazyAngel> allow-hotplug wlan 0
[23:55] <LazyAngel> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
[23:55] <LazyAngel> *allow-hotplug wlan0
[23:56] <LazyAngel> save it, and run /etc/init.d/networking restart
[23:56] <GreeningGalaxy> it already looks exactly like that, with one extra line about wpa_supplicant
[23:56] <LazyAngel> so no iface wlan0 inet manual?
[23:57] <GreeningGalaxy> nope, not at the moment
[23:57] <LazyAngel> well, I'm no expert on dhcp
[23:57] * D-Boy (~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain) Quit (Excess Flood)
[23:57] <LazyAngel> but the reason it is not persistent is because you run the command once.
[23:58] <LazyAngel> you will have to get it into a config file. either into the dhcpcd or networking
[23:58] <LazyAngel> and restart the service
[23:58] <LazyAngel> looks like you have two options
[23:58] <LazyAngel> good luck with google :)
[23:58] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:58] <LazyAngel> or try a linux channel?

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