#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2017-04-07

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <shauno> "just they didn't" is probably very FCCish
[0:01] <shauno> (not to say you can't, just that I can understand why the foundation would prioritize certification over U.FL)
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[0:38] <xSolidState> Hi guys. This is probably a common question, but I can't for the life of me find the answer anymore: (Where) do I have to activate hardware PWM for pin 18? Everywhere I looked, they tell me I can't use Audio then, but I remembered that. They dont say how to turn it on though. :/
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[0:57] <muesli4> xSolidState: I use the gpio command (not sure from which package it is).
[0:57] <ShorTie> wiringPi
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[0:59] <muesli4> xSolidState: http://codepad.org/EoQxNEWG Provisional bash code to control the backlight of my display.
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[1:03] <Duckle> xSolidState: There's also python
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[1:04] <Duckle> xSolidState: What are you using it for though? It sounds like you have some sort of system that uses pin 18 with pwm to controll something
[1:04] <xSolidState> right ok
[1:04] <xSolidState> Was there not a setting that you had to toggle that switched modes from audio to hardware pwm?
[1:05] <Duckle> dunno
[1:05] <xSolidState> Duckle, I am. But I have my doubts that it is in fact hardware based pwm
[1:05] <Duckle> I don't know if RPi.GPIO, the python lib, uses hardwware
[1:05] <Duckle> xSolidState: What's your usecase
[1:05] <xSolidState> I am using wiringpi in c
[1:05] <Duckle> ah
[1:06] <xSolidState> Maybe I am misremembering, but I thought that there was a setting somewhere, if you didnt toggle it, it just uses software pwm, which it also supports
[1:06] <xSolidState> a setting in the raspberrys configs somewhere
[1:07] <Duckle> http://wiringpi.com/pins/special-pin-functions/
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[1:08] <xSolidState> Duckle, so at PWM, this: "If you are not using the audio at all, (or the audio is going via the HDMI cable), then this pin is free to be used in PWM mode." means I dont have to set anything?
[1:08] <Duckle> I have no idea
[1:08] <xSolidState> I must be going mad :D
[1:08] <Duckle> it suggests you have to set it up for hardware pwm
[1:08] <Duckle> to me at least
[1:09] <xSolidState> Thats what i was thinking. But I am almost certain now that i misremember. I thought I had to set it in raspi-config somewhere, when I used it last, one year ago...
[1:09] <xSolidState> but there is nothing there
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[1:10] <xSolidState> gonna see if my chinascope can tell me if it jitters at all. When we used SoftPWM in python at uni, it was really unreliable, jittered around 1 or 2 percent of duty cycle
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[1:12] <Duckle> xSolidState: You can use a logic analyzer for that as well if you have one
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[1:13] <xSolidState> Duckle, I dont, unfortunately :/
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[1:14] <Duckle> I wonder how accurate it'd be to use the stereo audio out for PWM
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[1:14] <Duckle> send a PCM signal for a squarewave of varying PWM dutycycle through, get output
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[1:17] <xSolidState> Duckle, I suppose it won't help much, since that is exactly what you are doing
[1:17] <Duckle> wiringpi only mentions one pin though
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[1:17] <xSolidState> right, but what are you doing with the other one? just a second signal?
[1:18] <brianx> Psi-Jack: would you be willing to do me a favor and check to see if you can duplicate a bug i'm experiencing?
[1:18] <Duckle> yea
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[1:19] <xSolidState> Coming up with 2µs jitter btw. normal repetition time is 70µs, jumps to 72 occasionally. Thats not great, but it should be usable
[1:20] <Duckle> what are you usigng it for?
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[1:20] <xSolidState> http://www.ebay.de/itm/300-3000mA-Buck-Regulator-PWM-LED-Driver-for-1-100W-High-Power-LED-DC-DC-/181583853955
[1:20] <xSolidState> this thing
[1:21] <Duckle> 2us sounds fine
[1:22] <xSolidState> Duckle, yeah. Not in the range I expected tho...
[1:23] <Duckle> It's not running an RTOS :)
[1:23] <xSolidState> thing is, if it jitters 2% of signal time, not 2µs fixed, the project in uni is going to stay shitty :D
[1:24] <xSolidState> we are controlling a brushless motor esc. and those things are quite picky
[1:24] <Duckle> ahh
[1:24] <Duckle> I'd just add a small uC to it
[1:24] <Duckle> talk over serial
[1:25] <xSolidState> thats lame tho :D
[1:25] <Duckle> nah
[1:25] <xSolidState> of course, on an arduino its a million times better, easily
[1:26] <Duckle> unless you throw on an RTOS, it's not intended for that :P
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[1:26] <xSolidState> sure. Still a bit lame. The course is designed around the rpi, students do projects with it.
[1:26] <Duckle> ah
[1:27] <xSolidState> If it weren't for opencv, the group wouldn't even need the rpi at all then. The only other group could technically just use arduino anyway. Doesn't look so great if both groups do the heavy lifting on µC and just have the rpi for programming it :P
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[1:56] <Psi-Jack> brianx: What bug?
[1:57] <brianx> Psi-Jack: https://bugs.launchpad.net/raspbian/+bug/1632555
[1:57] <brianx> steps are easy, apt -y install etherpuppet; etherpuppet -s 9999 -C -i eth0
[1:58] <brianx> correct behavior is "Waiting for connection on port 9999..."
[1:58] <brianx> bug behavior is to print the help text.
[1:58] <Psi-Jack> Heh, does it matter if I don't use a cable in my Pi>?
[1:58] <Psi-Jack> I'm using pure WiFi on mine.
[1:58] <brianx> nope, just use the right interface.
[1:59] <Psi-Jack> But, I have a desk switch handy.
[1:59] <brianx> wlan0 is just fine.
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[2:10] <Psi-Jack> OKay. Will do in a few when I can,.
[2:11] <brianx> thanks Psi-Jack. i may be a little slow to reply, going to get food...
[2:11] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, that's soon what I'ma gonna need myself.
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[2:21] <amigojapan> here are some pictures of my RPI tablet I put together , and hte accessories I use http://imgur.com/a/C5tHm
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[2:27] <mnemonic> amigojapan: nice
[2:27] <amigojapan> ty mnemonic
[2:30] <amigojapan> is there some option in config.txt for setting off the LCD display and switching to HDMI output?
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[2:39] <amigojapan> mnemonic: today I am trying to clock to see how long the battery can last
[2:42] <brianx> mete: ^^^ someone doing the same thing on underclocking.
[2:43] <muesli4> amigojapan: Once you plug it in it X11 should automatically recognize it and add a screen.
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[2:44] <muesli4> amigojapan: You can use xrandr to turn of the LCD display. Howver I don't know how to do it automically, maybe via udev.
[2:44] <amigojapan> muesli4: no, I dont want the default behaviour, I want it to switch completly to HDMI and turn off the LCD when it is hooked up to HDMI
[2:45] <amigojapan> muesli4: can you give me hte command to turn off the LCD please? I have never used xranr before
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[2:45] <muesli4> amigojapan: xrandr --output "..." --off (you have to figure out what the name of the lcd is)
[2:46] <amigojapan> ty muesli4 , I will try that out now...
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[2:51] <muesli4> amigojapan: https://github.com/codingtony/udev-monitor-hotplug might be of interest for you.
[2:51] <amigojapan> ty muesli4
[2:52] <muesli4> amigojapan: You're absolutely welcome. I hope you get it working. I'm sure it can be done.
[2:53] <amigojapan> muesli4: when I run just xranr I get “screen 0:”some dimentions of the screen, but I am not sure how to get what I am supposed to put into “…”
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[2:54] <redrabbit> Anybody using 433mhz super regenerative modules ?
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[2:55] <redrabbit> to control AC wireless switches
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[2:55] <redrabbit> somehow i have to keep RFSniffer in the background to get codesend to work, its a bit of a hog
[2:56] <muesli4> amigojapan: Type "xrandr", it will list output devices and their resolutions. Replace ".." with the output device associated with your LCD (probably LVDS1).
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[2:58] <muesli4> amigojapan: The idea is then to recognize that a screen has plugged in or removed and do some action. The action is to turn the screen off or on. You can use udev to do that action, but you will probably have to do some research. ;)
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[3:00] <amigojapan> muesli4, when I type xranr I get this; https://pastebin.com/kxKYrZxP
[3:01] <muesli4> amigojapan: The command is "xrandr"!
[3:02] <amigojapan> muesli4: I tried xrandr —output “Screen 0” —off but ti says Screen 0 not found ignoring
[3:02] <amigojapan> muesli4: that was just a typo, the command was typed properly
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[3:03] <muesli4> amigojapan: Are you sure those are proper quotes? �Screen 0� != "Screen 0"
[3:03] <muesli4> amigojapan: But I'm just guessing.
[3:04] <amigojapan> muesli4: I tried both
[3:04] <amigojapan> I will man xrandr
[3:06] <muesli4> amigojapan: Maybe you can find more info in /var/log/Xorg.0.log (some wrong configuration maybe). Your screen is the official LCD display, right?
[3:06] <amigojapan> yes
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[3:11] <muesli4> amigojapan: Oh wait. The name of your screen could be "default".
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[3:11] <muesli4> amigojapan: I'm sorry, I'm not used to parsing xrandr output. ;)
[3:11] <amigojapan> ah ok muesli4 , let me try
[3:12] <amigojapan> no luck muesli4 , oh well, I will try the script you linked
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[3:16] <muesli4> amigojapan: http://codepad.org/fqCuBMiq
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[3:17] <amigojapan> ty muesli4 , let me try that out
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[3:18] <muesli4> amigojapan: You will have to use "default" instead of "DVI-I-1", that should work.
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[3:20] <amigojapan> muesli4: unfortunatley I get “unrecognized option ‘output’” when I do xrandr output
[3:20] <amigojapan> ih that is a comment
[3:20] <amigojapan> I missunderstood, one sec
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[3:28] <amigojapan> muesli4: that gives no error, but also causes no effect
[3:30] <muesli4> amigojapan: It could be that this functionality is not implemented. Maybe you could try to turn the backlight off.
[3:30] <amigojapan> muesli4: how would turning hte backlight off do anything for the HDMI?
[3:31] <muesli4> amigojapan: I assumed that you wanted to save power. Is that wrong?
[3:31] <amigojapan> muesli4: no, you dont get what I want then
[3:31] <amigojapan> muesli4: I want to switch to HDMI output when the HDMI TV is plugged into the HDMI port
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[3:32] <muesli4> amigojapan: What do you mean by "switch"? Do you want to mirror the screen onto your TV?
[3:32] <amigojapan> muesli4: as is now, there is no way to use HDMI output when the RPI is set up with teh official display
[3:33] <amigojapan> muesli4: missoring would be fine if possible, or just switching off the LCD and puting on HDMI
[3:33] <amigojapan> mirroring*
[3:33] <amigojapan> muesli4: but the current default behaviour is not mirroring
[3:35] <muesli4> amigojapan: I don't know about the hardware side. This seems related: https://www.element14.com/community/thread/49012/l/how-to-run-hdmi-and-official-raspberry-pi-display-dsi-simultaneously?displayFullThread=true
[3:35] <amigojapan> let me see muesli4
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[3:37] <muesli4> amigojapan: The last post mentions https://github.com/AndrewFromMelbourne/raspi2raspi
[3:37] <amigojapan> let me see
[3:39] <amigojapan> ok ty muesli4 , I will try it out
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[5:38] <brianx> any luck Psi-Jack?
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[5:52] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Sorry, haven't checked yet. I've been mapping out my garage door contol panel, and parts I need. heh
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[5:53] <brianx> ahh, i understand... doing a firewall project and it's pretty engrossing too.
[5:54] <Psi-Jack> Heh, I'm trying to determine the best way to handle the 16V line coming from the garage door, somehow using that 16V to step it down to 4V-6V, through the same line, reversing the polarity with a 1.6K ohm to signal the garage door, using a 1uF 50V capacitor to signal the light.
[5:55] <Psi-Jack> A lot of people doing garage doors seem to use relay switches, but this doesn't seem to be a reasonable approach for something sooooo simple.
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[5:59] <Sonny_Jim> Err
[5:59] <Sonny_Jim> Relays _are_ simple?
[6:00] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, but relays turn on/off power, this is not needed at all. ;)
[6:01] <Psi-Jack> Basically to opperate the garage door, you short the line accross a 1.6k ohm., that's it.
[6:01] <Psi-Jack> For toggling the light, you short the line accros a 1uF 50V or 22uF 50V capacitor.
[6:04] * svm_invictvs (~patrick@unaffiliated/svminvictvs/x-938456) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:04] <Sonny_Jim> You want to control it with a Pi, right?
[6:06] <Psi-Jack> Well, actually, this would be controlled with an ESP8266, specifically, communication would go to the Pi about the sensors via the ESP8266
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[6:09] <brianx> interesting, so their toggle isn't exactly data across those 2 wires. you'll have to store some power in a capacitor or battery to run while the resistor is across the line.
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[6:11] <Psi-Jack> Heh yeah. My plan is to basically run a second wire over to the ESP8266 itself to both supply power to it as well as be able to send the signals accross to it.
[6:11] <Psi-Jack> Keeping the control panel itself also functional.
[6:11] <Psi-Jack> Not sure how that would work. :)
[6:12] <brianx> if you have the extra wire, you could also just "push" the buttons and not mess with their protocol.
[6:12] * SunShang (~cybr1d@unaffiliated/cybr1d) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[6:13] <Psi-Jack> But, 16V feed from the garage door control/supply wires, DC to DC buck converter to convert 16V to 4V-6V, and some means to work with it all.
[6:13] <brianx> tap into the switch outputs and press them.
[6:13] <Psi-Jack> Yeah. That's basically the relay route.
[6:13] <brianx> the odds are the buttons are 5v or 3.3v.
[6:14] <Psi-Jack> Nope, 16V
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[6:14] <brianx> just ground the right side with the uc through a transistor then.
[6:14] <brianx> right side of the switch
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[6:16] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm..
[6:16] <Psi-Jack> That... Could possibly work, yes!
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[6:16] <brianx> bjt transistors for the win.:-)
[6:17] <Psi-Jack> I did notice that as the garage door was moving, the input voltage to the terminals dropped from 16V to about 12~14V
[6:18] <Psi-Jack> But, there's literally no resistance, except when a button is pressed.
[6:18] <brianx> a buck power supply won't care if its 16 or 10v.
[6:18] <Psi-Jack> http://kuzyatech.com/what-can-we-learn-from-simple-things
[6:18] <Psi-Jack> That second one is basically my control panel.
[6:18] <brianx> I'll have to click in a bit
[6:19] <Psi-Jack> I'll upload a picture of the actual circuit side. That page doesn't show it.
[6:20] <brianx> I'm about 20 minutes from my desk
[6:20] <Psi-Jack> hehe, okay.
[6:20] * baldengineer (~cmiyc@unaffiliated/cmiyc) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[6:20] <Psi-Jack> I'll get this picture uploaded, and look at that thing you asked me to, and letcha know. :)
[6:21] <brianx> thanks. ;-)
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[6:22] <brianx> hopefully you have an account on the bug thing to mark it as "mee tooo" there so it's verified. it's been idle for 6 m9nths because nobody has verified it.
[6:23] <Psi-Jack> Especially if you can favor me back with a good idea of how to do this. I'm still learning circuitry itself. heh
[6:23] <Psi-Jack> I do have an account on launchpad.
[6:23] <brianx> absolutely. as long as it's dc signals and not data, it's right up my alley.
[6:24] <Psi-Jack> Yep, it's all DC signals. Nothing more. I was scared it would be data being that it's Security+, but, nope.. No data.
[6:25] <brianx> I'll give it a good look when i get to my desk
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[6:29] <Psi-Jack> Hmm, then again, I can't find etherpuppet on F24.
[6:29] <HrdwrBoB> Psi-Jack: not so much redundant as the same feedback in two directions and cheap
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[6:30] <Psi-Jack> HrdwrBoB: And noisy. Then again, I guess it is a garage door. LOL
[6:31] <Psi-Jack> There's only so much room I can fit wires through into the control panel itself, however, there's 4 entry points I could use overall. Hmmmmmm...
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[6:35] <brianx> Psi-Jack: it's on raspbian. jessie or stretch.
[6:35] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Yeah, wow. it does just show the help, even though everything is valid. Only on the Raspbian.
[6:35] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Yeah, I hopped onto my UniFI controller VM which runs Debian, and tested there. :)
[6:35] <brianx> :-( , so it's not just my 3 machines.
[6:36] <brianx> etherpuppet is really cool when it works.
[6:36] <brianx> can you please mark the but as meee toooo?
[6:37] <brianx> bug
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[6:37] <Psi-Jack> I will.. I'm recovering my launchpad account which is linked to my ancient barely used gmail account apparently. LOL
[6:38] <brianx> ahh. i dumped them too.
[6:38] <Psi-Jack> These days, I just run my own mail server, fully qualified.
[6:39] <Psi-Jack> All my gmail is these days, and has been for years, is a spam bucket, because their filtering sucks.
[6:39] <brianx> i do too. spam filtering is better on my server too. I'm not aware of any lost mail and hit my second spam of the year yesterday. it went to the junk folder of course.
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[6:40] <brianx> this spam came via a proxy, my private domain registration account sent it.
[6:41] <Psi-Jack> I still get some spam, but I have baysian filtering, and spamassassin constantly updated, RBLs in use, and postscreen too.
[6:43] <brianx> i use a couple rbl and block most international ips. there is no Bayesian because most of those do blind drop of email. every message i didn't get got rejected so any real senders got a reject notice.
[6:43] <Psi-Jack> I get a lot of repeat spam, similar spam, even spam to sales@mydomain (which I filter into self-learning baysien filtering)
[6:44] <brianx> there is the minimal Bayesian of the client, but 2 hits this year isn't enough to train it.
[6:46] <brianx> all my hits do come to "real" accounts, most i. relation to something i did.
[6:47] <brianx> like not regularly changing the mailbox my ebay comes to.
[6:47] <Psi-Jack> Ahh yes. Well, I also have a shared email alias for my wife and I and she signs up for all sorts of crap. I amazingly don't get much spam to that address though.
[6:48] <Psi-Jack> I have tagged that bug report.
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[6:48] <brianx> :-) thank you. hopefully it will get some attention.
[6:49] <brianx> i can't find the report path for stretch.
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[6:54] <Psi-Jack> Maybe Woody knows? Or Buzz Lightyear?
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[6:55] <brianx> i forgot the name of the prior one, but it also failed.
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[6:56] <brianx> wheezy failed too.
[6:57] <Lartza> Debian Woody on the Pi, now that would be something else :P
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[6:57] <brianx> i was thinking of building from source but haven't yet.
[6:57] <brianx> I'm guessing woody is realllly old.
[6:59] <Lartza> Debian Woody 1.1, 1996
[6:59] <Lartza> ;)
[6:59] <brianx> wheezy is the first debian i used. slackware 1995 was my first linux though.
[6:59] <Lartza> Wait no
[6:59] <Lartza> Buzz is 1.1
[6:59] <Lartza> Woody is 3.0
[6:59] <brianx> so old.
[7:00] <Psi-Jack> Heh
[7:00] <Psi-Jack> You don't get it do you?
[7:00] <Psi-Jack> Where do you think the names of every Debian distribution has come from?
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[7:00] <brianx> toy story
[7:00] <Psi-Jack> Exactly. :)
[7:01] <brianx> i was a redhat person. then fedora. then suse. then fedora.
[7:01] <Psi-Jack> They need to hurry up with another movie, with new characters. They're running out of names.
[7:01] <brianx> slack didn't last long.
[7:02] <brianx> we have a decade or more.
[7:02] <brianx> mrs potato debian is a long way off.
[7:02] <Psi-Jack> Hehe. I was a SoftLander person, then Yggdrasil, then Red Hat, then Fedora/CentOS.
[7:02] <Psi-Jack> There was a time I did use SuSE, though, before Red Hat.
[7:03] <Psi-Jack> And after Red Hat too. I actually only fairly recently started really using Fedora since about F18.
[7:03] * LeonardBlush (~LeonardBl@2605:e000:1313:82cf:a0ce:a0d9:fb81:7aea) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:03] <Psi-Jack> That was the first Fedora version that I felt was finally stable enough for everyday use.
[7:03] <brianx> gentoo was fun. lfs too.
[7:03] * BastionEffs (~BastionEf@ip24-56-49-250.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:03] <Psi-Jack> I was a Gentoo ebuild developer. :)
[7:04] <brianx> i used f18 way tooo long.
[7:05] <brianx> i beta tested ibms predecessor to lvm on gentoo.
[7:06] <Psi-Jack> evms, was it?
[7:06] <Psi-Jack> elvm? Something wierd..
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[7:06] <brianx> yeah
[7:07] <brianx> sweet tool but too hard for anyone to use
[7:07] <Psi-Jack> Oh yeah. O know...
[7:07] <Psi-Jack> That was a PITA
[7:08] <Psi-Jack> Ugh, I really need to make my photo uploader from my cell to my nextcloud organize into directories.
[7:08] <brianx> it was sweet. the pita was the ramdisk build you had to do.
[7:08] <brianx> i use adb to pull pics at 4am every day that it works.
[7:09] <brianx> thanks: "OP's initial bug is completely valid."
[7:10] <Psi-Jack> Hehe
[7:10] <Psi-Jack> Bug bandits like to see verbal/written acknowledgement. Makes it seem more serious.
[7:10] <Psi-Jack> And genuine.
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[7:11] <brianx> yeah. i kinda forgot about this bug till i needed it again today when i needed it again. tcpdump is painful by comparison.
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[7:15] <brianx> looking at your link
[7:15] <Psi-Jack> I'm about to upload the images.
[7:15] <Psi-Jack> imgur was "overloaded" so I had to find an alternative. lol
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[7:17] <brianx> <3 there is a schematic in your link.
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[7:18] <brianx> "Yes, you can still use a single sided through-hole board in 21-st century" !!!
[7:19] <brianx> what isn't given is if the signal is AC or DC. my guess is that it's AC.
[7:19] <brianx> there's some smarts in that signal.
[7:19] <Psi-Jack> Yep. hehe
[7:20] <brianx> the diode resistor switch we can do easy with a bjt.
[7:21] <brianx> the capacitor ones... not so sure. gonna have to think about it.
[7:21] <Psi-Jack> http://imgur.com/a/Yle63
[7:21] <Psi-Jack> There's both sides.
[7:23] <brianx> ahh, helpfull. and are the polarity of the wires important? are they color coded or something and only work if the right wire is in the right place?
[7:23] <brianx> the capacitors have a polarity. but the signal doesn't have to respect it.
[7:24] <Psi-Jack> The wires that tie into it are both white, but the red side has the red stripe.
[7:24] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-78-102-201-117.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:24] <brianx> so they do have a polarity.
[7:26] <brianx> white is "2" in the schematic.
[7:26] * elsevero (~elsevero@ Quit (Quit: elsevero)
[7:27] <brianx> white is "-" and red is "+"
[7:27] <brianx> 2 is "-" and 1 is "+"
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[7:29] <brianx> so... to read this, they must be sending an pulsed signal (probably square wave) through the wires.
[7:32] <Psi-Jack> Hmm..
[7:32] <Psi-Jack> Heh, I'm wondering if an optoisolator might be of use in this idea.
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[7:36] <brianx> not seeing a reason it would be.
[7:37] <brianx> my concern is that pulling power from this is going to make it see the open/close button pushed.
[7:37] <Psi-Jack> Heh
[7:38] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, the vampiring power part is the hardest part I think.
[7:38] <brianx> ok, so the LED is drawing current and my guess is there's a resistor to ground on the - white side of this.
[7:39] <brianx> with the open/close button open, the output of the divider sees a low voltage. push that and the sensor sees a high voltage.
[7:40] * puzzola (~puzzola@unaffiliated/puzzola) Quit (Quit: reboot)
[7:40] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, I'm actually kind of wondering how the LED is getting power.
[7:41] <Psi-Jack> The LED is always on, and it flashes only when the lock mode is triggered.
[7:42] <brianx> i bet the led goes out when you hold the open/close button.
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[7:42] <Psi-Jack> Yes, actually I do believe it does.
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[7:44] <brianx> from the schematic, it does.
[7:44] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[7:44] <Psi-Jack> I also notice those solder points on the silkscreen side, that seems to go to.. Nothing.
[7:45] <Psi-Jack> Theres the four pins for the button, then that one extra pin for....
[7:45] * Rolfs (~rolf@33.80-202-12.nextgentel.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:47] <Psi-Jack> There's three more solder spots just above R1 too. heh
[7:47] <Psi-Jack> Seems to only be dots, though, no pin.
[7:47] <brianx> test points?
[7:47] <brianx> there's no hole drilled either.
[7:47] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, seems like it.
[7:48] * blackwind_123 (~IceChat9@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:49] <Psi-Jack> This is what I was thinking about using for vampiring the power into the ESP http://a.co/8rzKZDd
[7:50] * puzzola (~puzzola@unaffiliated/puzzola) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:51] <brianx> without another wire, that's going to look like one of the capacitor switches being closed.
[7:52] <Psi-Jack> Hmm
[7:52] <brianx> looking at things, my guess is that the + side can be tapped for power as long as you provide a ground independent of the - side.
[7:52] <brianx> my guess is that the "signal" is the ground side being passed through a resistor.
[7:53] * baldengineer (~cmiyc@unaffiliated/cmiyc) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:53] <brianx> my guess is that the + side is pulsed DC.
[7:55] <brianx> closing the open/close switch causes a high voltage instead of a low voltage at the - pin.
[7:55] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm..
[7:56] <brianx> closing the 1mf switch causes the output to go + and -
[7:56] <brianx> closing the 22mf switch causes the output current to skyrocket.
[7:57] <brianx> this assumes a 60hz on the + pin.
[7:57] * GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@cpc111801-lutn14-2-0-cust55.9-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:58] <brianx> so sense high voltage, must be the open/close. sense lots of negative voltage, must be the 1mf. sense lots of current, must be the 22mf.
[7:58] * rscata (~cata@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:58] <brianx> (no clue which switch is on the 1mf and which is on the 22mf.)
[7:59] <Psi-Jack> Heh yeah. I could actually test that directly on a breadboard!
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[8:00] * mawnkey (~quassel@c-69-247-120-180.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:00] <Psi-Jack> And I do have the possability of feeding power to the ESP8266 from another source if vampiring isn't going to work very well.
[8:00] <brianx> you'd need at least a simplistic scope to verify that the + is a 60hz 16v square wave.
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[8:03] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm. What are those scopes actually called?
[8:03] <brianx> oscilloscope.
[8:03] * Blendify_lnx is now known as Blendify_lnx|afk
[8:04] <brianx> you can make one of sorts from an arduino. or a sound card.
[8:04] <brianx> this doesn't need much of a scope.
[8:04] <Psi-Jack> Heh, yeah. I'm looking into that, a co-worker of mine suggested a sound card.
[8:04] <Psi-Jack> And then, there's this http://a.co/cNMn4xY
[8:04] <brianx> sound card ones kinda suck. assuming a 60hz signal, an arduino one is good enough.
[8:05] * elsevero (~elsevero@ Quit (Quit: elsevero)
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[8:05] <brianx> 1 msps is way more than needed here but would work.
[8:05] <brianx> it's also pretty crappy for many tasks.
[8:06] <Psi-Jack> hehe, and the thing would have potentially more use, and it's cheap as heck.
[8:06] <Psi-Jack> Have to put it together, but... That's easy!
[8:06] * duckpupp1 (~patrickai@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[8:06] <Psi-Jack> It has the surface mount stuff already on, just not the pin based stuff.
[8:07] <brianx> 1msps is just so slow that it's got little value most places. it is more than enough for here though.
[8:07] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm
[8:08] <brianx> i have a $2.30 arduino nano i use for slow signals. 12 bits and 38Ksps.
[8:08] <Psi-Jack> Hehe
[8:08] <brianx> i have an esp8266 that i use to feed it back to my computer.
[8:08] <Psi-Jack> 1Msps is a bit better than 38Ksps. :)
[8:08] <brianx> it is.
[8:09] <brianx> but there aren't a lot of signals between those speeds.
[8:09] <Psi-Jack> And with this, with some hacking I could do kinda the same thing, feed the data to something else and visualize it on a computer screen as well.
[8:09] <brianx> most things are either audio range or way way up there.
[8:09] <Psi-Jack> Hmm
[8:09] <Psi-Jack> I found one for $40 that does 15001Ksps.
[8:10] <brianx> i also have a 35msps scope. also kinda slow but is better than nothing.
[8:10] <brianx> is that 15msps?
[8:11] <Psi-Jack> Yep
[8:11] <brianx> 15msps is starting to be useful, but still kinda slow. for non audio signals that is.
[8:11] <Psi-Jack> I'd mostly be using a scope like this purely for electronics.
[8:12] <brianx> so much falls in the "faster" range.
[8:12] * sivteck (~sivteck@unaffiliated/sivteck) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:12] <brianx> no mater how fast your scope, you;ll always want one that is faster.
[8:12] <Psi-Jack> Heh
[8:12] <Psi-Jack> Found one pre-made for 1GSa, only $330. LOL
[8:13] <Psi-Jack> Outa budget though, heh heh
[8:13] <brianx> not bad
[8:13] * Drzacek (~Drzacek@dslb-084-062-081-207.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:14] <brianx> i had a lead on a $200 with dsp and multi channel logic with a bit more but it didn't pan out. so 35msps and 38ksps is what i use.
[8:14] <brianx> it's poor but ...
[8:15] <brianx> so, plugged a transistor into the simulator for that circuit and ... not getting good results.
[8:15] * nerdboy (~sarnold@gentoo/developer/nerdboy) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:15] <Psi-Jack> Oh?
[8:16] <brianx> the transistor emulates the 1mf great.
[8:16] <brianx> but not so good replacing the 1.7K or the 22mf switch.
[8:17] * alexk7110 (~Thunderbi@2a02:587:4804:1900:4cfb:ac2e:fe44:6a3a) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:17] <Psi-Jack> 1.6K actually.
[8:17] <Psi-Jack> What're you using for a simulator?
[8:17] <brianx> just falstad.
[8:18] <brianx> the photo shows 1.7K.
[8:18] <Psi-Jack> Ahh, wow.. applet based.
[8:18] <Psi-Jack> I checked, the second digit is a blue mark.
[8:18] <brianx> this doesn't need much of a simulation so this is quick and easy.
[8:19] * sameee (~sameee@ has joined #raspberrypi
[8:20] <brianx> so it is.
[8:20] <brianx> 1.6k
[8:20] <Psi-Jack> hehe
[8:20] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, finding a 1.6k resistor on amazon was a PITA too!
[8:21] <brianx> not sure you need one. there's one in this circuit.
[8:25] * def_jam (~eblip@unaffiliated/eblip) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:26] <Psi-Jack> Hmm, question. These microswitches, they have 4 pins, how do they generally work?
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[8:27] * nerdboy (~sarnold@gentoo/developer/nerdboy) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:27] <Psi-Jack> Do they bridge the 4 points accross 2 connections or something?
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[8:27] * eblip (~eblip@unaffiliated/eblip) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[8:29] <brianx> these are not the switches normally called "micro switches". these small membrane switches just create a fairly small resistance when you push the button.
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[8:30] * elsevero (~elsevero@ Quit (Client Quit)
[8:30] <Psi-Jack> Oh, hmm.. I'm trying to map this out on falstad, but not seeing a microswitch. :)
[8:30] <brianx> they have 4 pins but pins 1 and 2 are always connected and pins 3 and 4 are always connected.
[8:31] <brianx> oh, just use a switch.
[8:31] <brianx> close enough.
[8:31] <brianx> if you want to be real accurate, put 50 ohms in series.
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[8:32] <brianx> so, a n channel MOSFET may handle being the switch.
[8:33] <brianx> but it needs a bjt to drive it.
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[8:42] <brianx> so, "relay replacement" circuit is a npn transitor with base to your 3.3V gpio, emitter to the extra wire (which is ground), and collector to a 10K resistor to red.
[8:42] <brianx> the 10k/collector junction also goes to the gate of a FET.
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[8:43] <brianx> drain goes to red, source goes to the button you want closed.
[8:44] <brianx> the wire goes to the side of the button away from red.
[8:44] <brianx> all three buttons are the same.
[8:44] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@2001:985:5982:1:65ce:b3f6:ed28:9e7f) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:45] <brianx> oh, and between gpio and base is a 2.2k resistor.
[8:47] <brianx> the fet and the npn don't need to be anything fancy, just able to handle the 16v. that's a regular fet, not a logic level and a fairly normal small signal bjt.
[8:47] <brianx> cheap is the name of the day. 3 cent transistors and fets are fine.
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[8:52] <brianx> Psi-Jack: ^^^
[8:53] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm
[8:53] <Psi-Jack> fets?>
[8:53] <brianx> mosfet
[8:53] * kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@c-98-195-204-9.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:53] <brianx> field effect transistors
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[8:56] <Psi-Jack> And what was that bjt you mentioned earlier?
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[8:56] <brianx> bipolar junction transistor. the classic transistor.
[8:57] <Psi-Jack> Hmm, alrighty.
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[8:59] <brianx> sorry, working on my firewall and took out name services. can't get a link at this moment.
[8:59] <Psi-Jack> It's okay, I can do my on research, I'm trying to learn this stuff anyway. :)
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[9:02] <hypermist> i think to do waht i want i need to setup a media server xD
[9:02] <brianx> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32456959936.html is a nice bjt. lots of gain. 2n2222 is the classic though and works well here.
[9:02] <hypermist> how good is the pi0w wifi
[9:04] <brianx> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32717835083.html is a pretty classic mosfet and again works fine here.
[9:06] <brianx> Psi-Jack: if you tell me your inventory of FETs and BJTs, i'll pick the most appropriate one.
[9:16] <Psi-Jack> Well, currently I have neither. hehe
[9:16] <Psi-Jack> I have resistors, not 1.6k ones yet, but that's in my queue.
[9:17] <brianx> get the 1250 assortment for like $3 of resistors. well worth it to have what you need.
[9:17] <Psi-Jack> Oh, I have an assortment, but goes from 1k to 2k immediately.
[9:18] <brianx> i got a pair of different assortments and have like 100 different values now. plus a spreadsheet that calculates parallel and series combinations and ratios. :-)
[9:19] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
[9:20] <brianx> i took an amazon box and used a razor to cut out and fold a nice long box then cut mis-print envelopes that i printed values and color codes on so that i could have a nice sorter for tracking all the values.
[9:20] * Dave_MMP is now known as djsxxx_away
[9:21] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
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[9:24] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Did you make a schematic on falstad, and if so, could you show me the link?
[9:24] <Psi-Jack> There's a file as link option hehe
[9:27] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm. I cannot stay awake, waaaay past bed time. heh
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[9:33] <brianx> yeah, i'll pastebin the export.
[9:34] <brianx> not pretty.
[9:36] <brianx> Psi-Jack: https://ghostbin.com/paste/423tq
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[12:33] <Gadgetoid_Pim> Anyone have much experience with UNIX socket programming, communicating between C and Python? Possibly bi-directionally
[12:34] <Gadgetoid_Pim> I want to establish a protocol for streaming FFT bins or L/R audio VU meter data from a C client to a Python server, to open up Pi VU Meter's audio visualisation
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[12:41] <HrdwrBoB> and google is not useful?
[12:42] <Habbie> Gadgetoid_Pim, if you don't want to think too much, you may like 0mq, coupled with json or protobuf
[12:42] * higuita (~higuita@2001:818:dee9:4200:ec72:50ff:fe96:f291) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[12:43] <Gadgetoid_Pim> HrdwrBoB, you're not useful :P
[12:44] <Gadgetoid_Pim> Habbie, that's an interesting library there, thanks, I may be forced to think though, since you can see/hear any latency
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[12:45] <HrdwrBoB> it's streaming data over a socket
[12:46] * alexk7110 (~Thunderbi@2a02:587:4804:1900:4cfb:ac2e:fe44:6a3a) Quit (Quit: alexk7110)
[12:46] * Dave_MMP is now known as djsxxx_away
[12:46] <Gadgetoid_Pim> Yeah and being useful is just pressing keys on a keyboard, but you're not doing a very good job of that :P
[12:46] <HrdwrBoB> it's not rocket surgery
[12:46] <HrdwrBoB> it's not lossy
[12:47] <Gadgetoid_Pim> Confirmed, I once operated on a rocket
[12:47] <HrdwrBoB> it's garaunteed delivery
[12:47] <Gadgetoid_Pim> It sadly died :(
[12:47] <HrdwrBoB> oh well
[12:47] <Gadgetoid_Pim> My main problem isn't the how, so much as the why
[12:49] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
[12:49] <Gadgetoid_Pim> I could easily hack something together, but that's how Pi VU Meter was born, and the hack turned out to be more trouble than it was worth
[12:50] <Gadgetoid_Pim> So some domain knowledge or sanity checks are always useful
[12:50] * Jonwel (~Jonwel@541971C3.cm-5-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:51] <Gadgetoid_Pim> Interesting gotchas being, for example, the existing plugin writes to GPIO/SPI/I2C directly to display VU data on a HAT/pHAT, but ALSA and its plugins are instantiated with the user context of the application outputting audio
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[13:38] <de-facto> weird enough xfce runs much more stable on raspbian than lxde
[13:38] * TheSin (~TheSin@d108-181-59-119.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[13:40] <shiftplusone> Gadgetoid_Pim: from my limited experience with sockets, I remember it was just like working with normal files. Except instead of opening a file to get a descriptor, you create a socket.
[13:41] <shiftplusone> Gadgetoid_Pim: also, why you no use those connectors which allow pins to come through from underneath so that I can stack stuff with your HATs? =( Even just the pads to solder to would be nice.
[13:42] <shiftplusone> probably lots of good reasons, and the phat dac won't go to waste either way, but still.
[13:42] <Gadgetoid_Pim> Those connectors are expensive IIRC
[13:43] <Gadgetoid_Pim> Also we sell Black HAT Hack3r!
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[13:46] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Thanks. I see it. :)
[13:46] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:48] <shiftplusone> Got it, thanks
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[14:06] <BurtyB> shiftplusone, last I looked the smd+header extender thing was about 10x the price :/
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[14:08] <shiftplusone> Makes sense.
[14:08] <shiftplusone> I'll just use a justboom dac for this project instead and save the pimoroni dac for something else.
[14:09] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:10] <shiftplusone> CPC decided it would be fun to charge the Raspberry Pi Foundation trade account for my personal purchases for some reason O_o. These accounts are not even linked in any way.
[14:10] * Valduare (~Valduare@97-94-35-98.static.ftbg.wi.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Valduare)
[14:12] <BurtyB> weird :/
[14:14] <shiftplusone> Doubly so because I don't work for RPF, so that's a fun one to explain to them.
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[14:52] <shiftplusone> And now they've replied and fixed it within 24 hours, so good on them.
[14:52] <BurtyB> :)
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[15:33] <psiklops> Hi. I am using Raspberry Pi 2 B+ and the current jessie-lite image. Is it possible to use Debian (wheezy-backports) or the such to install Apache2.2 ?
[15:33] * lupinedk (~lupine6@unaffiliated/lupinedk) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
[15:34] <psiklops> current raspian-jessie-lite.img
[15:34] <mfa298> you'll likely have lots of issues trying to use the debian wheezy backports on raspbian jessie
[15:34] * pokmo (~pokmo@unaffiliated/pokmo) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:35] <pokmo> hi
[15:35] <pokmo> is there another way to encrypt/decrypt a USB drive beside using Truecrypt?
[15:35] <mfa298> best case it does't work, worst case you trash the whole os and have to start from sctatch
[15:35] <mfa298> why can't use use the apache package thats already in jessie ?
[15:35] <psiklops> mfa298, i'm used to that ;-)
[15:35] <Chillum> pokmo: cryptsetup allows for LUKS encryption
[15:35] <pokmo> thanks
[15:36] <psiklops> mfa298, my application i based on apache2.2 old configuration
[15:36] <psiklops> ^is
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[15:36] <mfa298> it might not take much to change the config to 2.4 (apache 2.2 is pretty ancient now)
[15:36] <pokmo> Chillum, do i need to recompile the kernel?
[15:37] <Chillum> nope, it should work out of the box
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[15:37] <pokmo> Chillum, so i just install it using apt-get?
[15:37] * mmazing (~mmazing@unaffiliated/mmazing) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:38] <Chillum> if it is not already installed yes
[15:38] <pokmo> thanks
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[15:46] <pokmo> Chillum, does the kernel support aes-xts-plain64 cipher?
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[15:56] <leftyfb> pokmo: cat /proc/crypto |grep xts
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[16:19] <ice303>
[16:19] <ice303>
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[16:34] <lolopolosko> ls
[16:34] <lolopolosko> oops.. sorry
[16:35] * IT_Sean thumps lolopolosko
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[16:38] <engblom> I wonder if anyone of you know about any distro supporting ZFS root for Raspberry Pi?
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[16:43] <leftyfb> engblom: I don't. But why would you need that?
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[16:46] <MaekSo> seriously why, I'm curious
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[16:47] <MaekSo> I can't imagine ZFS would be useful at all on a raspberry pi beyond snapshots of the root pool, but.....still just no
[16:48] <MaekSo> it's a heavy bitch and a raspberry pi has 1GB ram
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[16:49] <Pennth> maekso++ zfs on a pi would be a fun proof of concept but not practical for everyday use
[16:50] <nacelle> https://github.com/hughobrien/zfs-remote-mirror
[16:50] <engblom> MaekSo: 1Gb is plenty enough for ZFS, even on rpi. A decade ago, I had not more than that in my laptop running ZFS and a full desktop. My rpi just runs a few small console programs
[16:50] <nacelle> there's a use
[16:51] <MaekSo> what would you gain, engblom?
[16:51] <nacelle> but a root fs... thats special.
[16:52] <engblom> MaekSo: Separate datasets, without needing to split out into many partitions, separate snapshots for each dataset with quick rollback, 'zfs send/recv' for quick and easy data migration, built in compression etc, etc
[16:52] <engblom> lvm is far from the same flexible.
[16:52] <engblom> MaekSo: Have you actually used ZFS?
[16:52] <MaekSo> only as a profession for years :)
[16:53] <engblom> By limiting the arc, it is useful even on lower ram system
[16:53] <MaekSo> I just never think about it being all that useful on a root pool. in the case of an rpi I'd just turn off all ARC
[16:53] <engblom> Especially considering that most apps will use very few MB of ram. I am mostly doing simple gpio programs with some logging
[16:54] <Pennth> nacelle, That has me thinking about the unused wd pi kit I have under my desk. TY
[16:54] <nacelle> I want at least one of those wd pi kits
[16:54] <MaekSo> most of my exposure to ZFS day in and day out is people using it in datacenters, so on an rpi is "interesting" but just seems absurd on its face to me
[16:55] <MaekSo> not saying don't do it or anything, it just struck me as bizarre
[16:55] <nacelle> i have a raid5 on a pi
[16:55] <nacelle> out of micro usb sticks
[16:55] <engblom> I use ZFS at all my laptops, my desktop, the servers I am maintaining. My rpi is the exception and because of my special usage, the limited RAM is not a problem
[16:55] <nacelle> its not that bizarre
[16:55] <MaekSo> also bizarre, lol
[16:56] * Duality (~duality@ip4da2c95a.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:56] <Pennth> it's bizarre :) but also fun
[16:56] <mfa298> I'm not sure I'd want to try zfs on a Pi, not just the memory limits but also the whole ZoL thing
[16:56] <MaekSo> which distro are you guys using for rpi zfs?
[16:56] <mfa298> keep zfs on a real OS :)
[16:56] * rscata (~cata@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:56] <engblom> mfa298: you could disable ZoL.
[16:56] <nacelle> mfa298: you can run FreeBSD on the pis
[16:57] <engblom> mfa298: Then you lose 5 seconds of data at most, or whatever you have tuned the flush interval to
[16:57] <Duality> anyone got experience using mjpg-streamer ? because i installed it but it's giving me this output: https://pastebin.com/P2gwRdRU
[16:57] <mfa298> engblom: that doesn't make sense (ZoL == ZFS on Linux) - I'm not talking about ZIL which is a differnt thing
[16:57] <Duality> i already exported the location for the .so with: export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib
[16:57] <engblom> mfa298: Ok, I am tired. I read it as Zil
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[16:59] <engblom> The funny thing is that zfsonlinux is actually more stable than freebsd with zfs, if the hardware is raspberry pi.
[16:59] <pilovernyc> can anyone easily explain what a servo controller board is and how it works with rpi
[17:00] <MaekSo> I haven't been impressed with distros beyond raspbian on a pi simply because of the tuning on raspbian, I guess. I haven't messed with many others or compiled my own kernel or anything
[17:00] <engblom> pilovernyc: It is working a bit like a "relay", switching higher voltage to the servo than what the gpio pins give out
[17:00] * krelix (~krelix@ool-1892c956.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:01] <nacelle> engblom: got any sources for the freebsd not stable on pi claim?
[17:02] <nacelle> seems odd since its been on the pi since 2012
[17:02] <engblom> nacelle: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/50291/page-2
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[17:02] <nacelle> yeah, right when the pi2 came out, it had problems on the pi2
[17:02] <MaekSo> I wouldn't find it hard to believe freebsd is unstable on a raspberry pi.... all the respect in the world for freebsd, but it's a damn pi
[17:02] <nacelle> (when its support for the pi2)
[17:03] <engblom> nacelle: According to that thread, copying files between ufs and zfs causes panic
[17:03] <engblom> Or at least caused panic
[17:04] <nacelle> on pre11, over a year ago
[17:05] <nacelle> might still be present, but.. hrm
[17:05] * IT_Sean (~quassel@applefritter/IRCStaff) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:05] * sunn (~oliver@host86-172-106-145.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:06] <nacelle> yeah 11 is when acpi comes in
[17:06] <nacelle> so anything before that would be fairly yuck I imagine
[17:06] * ShanShen (~ShanShen@d192-186-126-86.home4.cgocable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:06] <nacelle> (acpi on the pi)
[17:06] <nacelle> I can see why it'd be unstable there!
[17:06] <engblom> I love bsd in general, but not freebsd. FreeBSD have a long history of breaking things really badly.
[17:06] <nacelle> thanks for the link
[17:07] <engblom> FreeBSD 4.x was rock solid, but since then, I have seen more bugs than in the typical Linux distro
[17:07] <nacelle> i plugged a bad microsd into my x86 notebook running freebsd and it kernel panic'd
[17:08] <nacelle> that was a scary experience
[17:08] * mschorm (mschorm@nat/redhat/x-gnllumgiiplttvhg) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[17:08] <nacelle> "my"
[17:08] <nacelle> "a"
[17:08] <nacelle> as if I have just one, sheesh
[17:08] <nacelle> I'm trying to learn more about freebsd lately, I might still end up putting 11 on a pi this weekend
[17:09] * GerhardSchr (~GerhardSc@unaffiliated/gerhardschr) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:11] <amigojapan> I wonder if there will be a hardware driver in ali express for the broken laptop I am thinking of taking apppart, there is only one way to know, and that is taking the laptop appart…. why dont video driver boards advertise what kidn fo laptop display they can drive…. then I could hunt for a junk laptop to fit that dirver board
[17:11] <amigojapan> [12:10am]
[17:12] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[17:13] <amigojapan> or how about one of these “universal video driver boards”?
[17:13] <amigojapan> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HDMI-VGA-2AV-Lcd-controller-Board-work-with-Lots-of-LCD-panel-Driver-Board/810849_645095447.html
[17:13] <engblom> I think ZFS would be the _best_ filesystem for things like rpi as the disk space is limited on an SD card. It means your "system" dataset can grow when needed and your "home" dataset can grow when needed, all automatically and fully dynamically. Also, if I an upgrade fails badly, I can roll back without having my "home" dataset also rolled back. Adding the fact that all is transparently compressed, I
[17:13] <engblom> get more fitted on the card.
[17:14] * bronco1016 (~bronco101@c-76-112-53-13.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:15] <amigojapan> I dont get how they are converting the ribbon cables into wires to hook into the driver board
[17:15] * frost9999 (724fa8ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[17:17] <nacelle> engblom: I think a potential problem there is that sd cards have very very limited writes.
[17:17] <kerio> nacelle: that is not a problem exacerbated by zfs tho
[17:18] <nacelle> if you're using encryption + compression it would be a bit of an issue
[17:18] <nacelle> (of course, then you get encryption + compression...)
[17:18] <kerio> engblom: there's no way you'll run ZFS on a raspberry pi in a way that doesn't have absolutely trash performance
[17:19] <kerio> the impact of copy-on-write is lessened by having a gigantic ram cache, typically
[17:19] <amigojapan> kerio: I dont know about ZFS , but we used to have hard dirsk compression in MS-DOS systems
[17:19] <engblom> I am not caring about super duper performance. I care more about other aspects. Whatever I do on a raspberry pi, it got very low diskio
[17:20] <engblom> I would not encrypt anything
[17:20] <kerio> zfs doesn't even have encryption by itself, anyway
[17:20] <nacelle> hrmm, one could pxe boot the pi3
[17:20] <nacelle> and presumably skip the whole sd issue
[17:20] <kerio> engblom: freebsd doesn't support the pi3/pi0 wifi chip tho :(
[17:21] <engblom> kerio: Most Linux distros do not support it either if you run aarch64
[17:21] * aballier (~alexis@gentoo/developer/aballier) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:21] <engblom> kerio: Both voidlinux and arch do not support the wifi for aarch64
[17:21] <kerio> :(
[17:23] <mfa298> kerio: I'm pretty sure at least some variants have encryption - although that might be Solaris 11 only (so not applicable to the pi)
[17:26] <engblom> I am always running my rpi headless (without keyboard and display) and I remotely reboot after upgrades, so having encryption for non-secret data would just add trouble
[17:26] <engblom> Who would run over there to enter the password each time I reboot? And having the key on a usb stick would defeat the purpose as anyone getting the pi also gets the key
[17:26] <nacelle> common myths of FreeBSD: "After 4.x FreeBSD Went Downhill" https://wiki.freebsd.org/Myths
[17:28] <amigojapan> engblom: maybe make it so that it can read the key off the USB when you reboot, then eject the USB stick, so that nobody gets the key
[17:28] <engblom> nacelle: It is not a myth, but just real experience from me. 5.x meant scheduler changes and a lot of bugs. I had several panics and all critical stuff had to run 4.x. Dillon forked and created DragonflyBSD at that time.
[17:28] <nacelle> they specially address the 5.x issue
[17:28] <nacelle> I figured you caught that :-)
[17:28] <nacelle> that does sound like ass
[17:29] <engblom> With 6.x you had to reboot to remount a usb stick. Simply not working. 7.x I could not install in most of my computers. Even the installer paniced. 8.x the same.
[17:29] <nacelle> I also remember it, and its why I stopped looking at FreeBSD for many years
[17:31] <engblom> With latest stable, they have a memory management bug getting triggered on the last sync before shutting down when running from ZFS. I have mentioned it to the devs, but they do not care as it is not critical enough for them. HardenedBSD with more memory checks throws up on the shutdown
[17:31] <kerio> to be fair, it's during the shutdown :^)
[17:32] <engblom> I still do consider a segfault to be important to fix, even if it is during the shutdown.
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[17:34] <Habbie> nacelle, i was just going to say, 5.x was not great but later it's been wonderful
[17:36] <kerio> been using freebsd since 10.2, it's been amazing
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[17:37] <engblom> My favorite BSD is OpenBSD. But sadly it only got FFS (=UFS)
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[17:37] <nacelle> We've got it all on UFS
[17:38] <engblom> There was a dispute about broadcom drivers for openbsd, forcing them to remove all broadcom support. Because of this the openbsd team never did any work to get openbsd on rpi. Now that seem to have changed
[17:38] * izacht13 (~Izach@dynamic-199-45-29-12.atsnmeam.ccmaine.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[17:38] <engblom> They got some initial support for aarch64 for rpi3
[17:39] <engblom> They still do not have SMP support added, but at least it is booting, so maybe soon we have one rpi os more.
[17:39] * pcmerc (~pcmerc@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:40] <engblom> https://www.openbsd.org/arm64.html
[17:42] <kerio> i wanted to try freebsd on the pi0 but i don't have a monitor or a serial console :|
[17:43] <Pennth> kerio, I bought a $40 projector from amazon for pi setups. It's ugly but it works
[17:43] <engblom> A serial to usb cable is really cheap. Then you can install through any computer
[17:43] <kerio> engblom: yeah but then what
[17:44] <engblom> Cheapest one at the bay is less than $1 including shipping.
[17:44] <engblom> kerio: After that, use SSH.
[17:44] <kerio> but the pi0 has no ethernet D:
[17:44] <kerio> and freebsd doesn't support usb gadget mode
[17:45] <Pennth> https://learn.adafruit.com/turning-your-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-gadget/overview
[17:45] <Pennth> oops -- freebsd :p
[17:45] <kerio> 10/10
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[17:45] <kerio> what is even the point of the dwc_otg module in the first place
[17:46] <kerio> if the dwc2 module can do the same things
[17:46] <Pennth> https://www.thepolyglotdeveloper.com/2017/02/connect-raspberry-pi-pi-zero-usb-ttl-serial-cable/
[17:46] <kerio> (and there's no actual usb otg support -- the fifth pin is physically missing)
[17:46] <kerio> Pennth: yeah i should get something like taht
[17:46] <kerio> but i also don't know how to solder
[17:47] <kerio> and besides, i kinda like the small size of the pi0 without the header
[17:47] <BurtyB> kerio, 3 paper clips + steady hand gets around the soldering issue :)
[17:48] * aballier (~alexis@gentoo/developer/aballier) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:48] <Pennth> If you don't know how to solder, pi zero may not be the best item :) but you can also edge-wrap wires and use tape to insulate them, since all the pins you need are on the outer edge
[17:48] <kerio> sounds super janky
[17:49] * g105b (uid148156@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rbsaeoymdrypmkkt) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[17:49] <Pennth> It's a $5 ($10) board. Embrace the jank
[17:49] <Pennth> If you don't want permanent headers, janky will be your best option
[17:50] <Pennth> Unless you want to 3d-print a clamp with pogo pins, but the pins are expensive
[17:50] <kerio> hm, a female header wouldn't add much bulk
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[17:55] <Pennth> This to me is totally awesome, and I wish they had a 40-pin option with a US distributor :)
[17:55] <Pennth> https://tronixlabs.com.au/news/new-product-eclip-avr-ftdi-programming-fixture-australia/
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[18:00] <leftyfb> Pennth: you could make one: https://learn.adafruit.com/fiddy-ftdi-pogo-pin-clip/overview
[18:00] * BurtyB also made (https://www.modmypi.com/raspberry-pi/breakout-boards/8086/serial-to-micro-usb-adapter-for-raspberry-pi-zero) if you want serial but don't want to solder ;)
[18:01] * rwb (~Thunderbi@75-150-110-170-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[18:01] <leftyfb> oh that's cute
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[18:04] <shauno> that 10pin one .. getting things from dfrobot themselves is pretty reasonable, https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1307.html
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[18:05] <Pennth> leftyfb, that adafruit clip was the project I was thinking of. $30 worth of pogo pins plus printing and soldering, but worth it eventually
[18:05] <shauno> (and they still have the "free if you don't mind the weight" <1kg option, since they're chinese)
[18:06] <shauno> er, wait
[18:06] <IT_Sean> that is a terrible option. China Post is soooooooooo sloooooooooooow
[18:07] <humbot> don't mind the wait ?
[18:07] * Alphard (alphard@gateway/shell/fnordserver.eu/x-rwwwbwjtxerdrmkp) Quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu)
[18:07] <Pennth> pogo-pins and e-ink. two adorable things that seem way pricier than they oughta be
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[18:07] <IT_Sean> Ive had china post take so long that I'd forogtten I ordered the thing.
[18:07] <kerio> that's a feature
[18:07] <shauno> I love the free option. usually by time they arrive I've completely forgotten ordering it, and it's like getting surprise presents from january-me
[18:07] <kerio> surprise present!
[18:07] <kerio> :D
[18:08] <IT_Sean> It usually irritates me. "I needed these six months ago!"
[18:08] <Pennth> First time I used pogos was at maker Faire a few years ago when Sparkfun ran the "learn to solder your own arduino" tent
[18:08] <shauno> it drives my SO nuts. "what is it?" "I .. dunno ..."
[18:08] <IT_Sean> heh. Surprise packages can be fun, I'll admit.
[18:09] <Pennth> btw, kerio, maker faires and your local hackerspace will be happy to teach you how to solder
[18:09] <nacelle> one had to use pogo pins to program cell phones in the dark ages
[18:09] <nacelle> the little flip phones and such
[18:09] <IT_Sean> kerio: Learning to solder is easy! Learning to solder well comes with practice.
[18:09] <Pennth> I prefer the "leave a $20 bill in my winter coat for next year" surprise to the "ohai, I'm that thing you paid for months ago but never got"
[18:10] <nacelle> rip 'em open, take out the battery, there's five contact points in a row, etc. - thats where teh serial port goes.
[18:10] <kerio> there's also the issue where as soon as you solder anything, the back of the pi0 isn't flat anymore :(
[18:10] <IT_Sean> why are you soldering to your Pi?
[18:10] <kerio> well you have to solder a header at least
[18:10] <Pennth> pinning the zero to a breadboard and using tape/spring to keep the contacts flush is iffy but possible
[18:11] <IT_Sean> Pennth: clearly you aren't using enough used chewing gum
[18:11] <kerio> anyway, should the videocore be able to decode 1080p content?
[18:11] <kerio> 1080p h264, that is
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[18:12] <shiftplusone> yes
[18:12] <shiftplusone> @30
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[18:22] <Chinesium> Moonlight streaming, model zero or first gen model B?
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[18:52] <Habbie> Chinesium, as far as i can tell those should be pretty much equivalent in that regard
[18:53] <Chinesium> I'm guessing model B just for the ethernet port then?
[18:53] <Pennth> kerio, found the obvy soln: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13191
[18:54] <Habbie> Chinesium, yes, for the zero you'd have to buy an usb ethernet adapter
[18:57] <Chinesium> Yeah
[18:58] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Hmmm. I don't particularly understand that schematic.
[18:59] <kerio> Chinesium: what kind of moonlight
[19:00] * lemonzest (~lemonzest@unaffiliated/lemonzest) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:01] <brianx> Psi-Jack: the bottom is your board from the blog. the top is two transistors, a bjt controlling a fet.
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[19:01] <brianx> turn the bjt off, the fet turns on
[19:02] <brianx> turn the bjt on, the fet turns off.
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[19:02] <kerio> a NOT gate ;o
[19:03] <Psi-Jack> Which was the bjt?
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[19:03] <brianx> the bjt it the top one.
[19:03] <brianx> is
[19:03] <Chinesium> kerio: The software
[19:04] <Psi-Jack> Oh, the 3.3 switch?
[19:04] <brianx> no, the 3.3v switch is a stand in for the gpio.
[19:04] * kw21 (~kw21@D978E830.cm-3-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:05] <brianx> the upper transistor is a bjt. the lower is a fet.
[19:05] <Psi-Jack> Ahh
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[19:07] <brianx> you would duplicate the addition to the original circuit 3 times, once for each button.
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[19:09] <Psi-Jack> Yeah. I was looking at that, hmm, interesting, so the bjt and fet acts as a kind of gate, preventing a loopback of the 16V to the GPIO
[19:09] <Psi-Jack> What threw me off was that 60Hz square wave generator.
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[19:11] <brianx> Psi-Jack: this all assumes the left input wire is pulsed DC of about 16v. if it's over 20, there has to be an addition to protect the fet. if it's not dc, but ac, the whole thing doesn't work. it also requires you to run that extra ground wire.
[19:11] * j4ckcom (~moretz@unaffiliated/j4ckcom) Quit (Quit: j4ckcom)
[19:11] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, I plan to test to make sure it's DC. :)
[19:12] <brianx> the bjt does block the 16v, but it's primary purpose is to allow control of the fet which needs around 10v to run.
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[19:14] <brianx> pulsed dc. unfortunately, 60hz is too slow to see with a sound card scope. the other scopes all could see it.
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[19:18] <kerio> Chinesium: i think that's software decoding tho
[19:18] <kerio> from within a browser
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[19:18] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Hmm, yeah. I am getting a scope. :)
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[19:19] <Psi-Jack> I'll have to build it, but it's the 15ksp.
[19:20] <brianx> hopefully 15msps. 15k is less than an arduino can do.
[19:20] <Psi-Jack> Err, yeah, 15msps
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[19:23] <Chinesium> kerio: Not afaik
[19:24] <Psi-Jack> brianx: The pulsed DC though, if this is any reliable representation, I don't think is correct, because when the S1 is open, the LED is consistently on, solid.
[19:24] <Psi-Jack> I think it's more 16V DC, transformed with potential drain.
[19:25] <brianx> 60hz pulses on an led are too fast for the eye to notice.
[19:26] <brianx> it can't be dc, the capacitors don't pass dc, so all 3 switches look pretty much the same to dc.
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[19:27] <brianx> it could be 200hz pulsed dc. the actual frequency isn't critical as long as its a speed that the 2 capacitors impact differently.
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[19:28] <brianx> 60 is just convenient because it's readily available.
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[19:30] <Psi-Jack> Heh, Okay then. What I just did, I tapped the anchor points directly since they pass right through via the screws.
[19:31] <Chinesium> kerio: There is a browser version, but it's Java technically
[19:31] <Psi-Jack> Vdc was 16.80~16.82 normal, -16.80~16.82 reversed.
[19:31] <kerio> isn't moonlight the thing to use silverlight
[19:31] <Psi-Jack> So, definitely DC. Vac was just, definitely not giving any stable results, mostly down in the 0.x's heh
[19:32] <brianx> Psi-Jack: a multimeter can't really tell you much here. it gets confused by pulsed dc.
[19:32] <Psi-Jack> I measured the Hz, it was 80Hz
[19:32] <brianx> 80hz is well within expected frequency.
[19:32] * Psi-Jack nods.
[19:33] <Psi-Jack> But yeah, without a scope I can't really verify Pulsed/Non-pulsed DC.
[19:34] <ngc0202> Where should I direct my German friend to buy a raspberry pi (3)?
[19:34] <brianx> actually being 80 is unexpected, the use of capacitors shows an analog engineer. digital guys use 3 different resistors and an adc to handle 3 switches over 2 wires.
[19:35] <kerio> ngc0202: the pi 0w page suggests pi3g.com for germany, austria and switzerland
[19:36] <brianx> analog guys would be expected to control their transistor that pulses the dc using the transformer output and not a cpu output. but a transformer output is 60hz.
[19:36] <kerio> but the link goes to buyzero.de
[19:37] * engblom (~engblom@unaffiliated/engblom) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:37] <Psi-Jack> heh
[19:39] <brianx> no matter, 80hz doesn't impact our controller.
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[19:40] <ngc0202> kerio: yeah I don't see that for the rpi3 though
[19:40] <Psi-Jack> brianx: I wonder if it's 80Hz to keep the LED lit more effectively?
[19:40] <brianx> seeing 2khz would tell me i guessed wrong about how they would do this and would probably mean my approach was flawed.
[19:40] * ShanShen (~ShanShen@d192-186-126-86.home4.cgocable.net) Quit (Quit: [Not usually a quitter, but I quit.])
[19:42] <brianx> no clue why 80hz. the capacitor values are happy with quite a wide range of frequencies up to maybe a couple hundred hz.
[19:43] <brianx> the eye can't tell the difference between 30hz and 80hz. 60hz is plenty fast.
[19:43] * outofsorts (~outofsort@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:44] <kerio> not sure if serious
[19:44] <Chinesium> brianx: Guess that makes me a digital guy
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[19:44] <brianx> all 3 could be seen using the trick of squinting and quickly moving your point of focus past the led. the pulse shows as a trail of dashes.
[19:45] <brianx> Chinesium: it would have been my first approach too.
[19:46] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@2001:985:5982:1:65ce:b3f6:ed28:9e7f) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:46] <Chinesium> three different resistor values, parallel all of them, ADC at the reading end
[19:47] <brianx> Chinesium: exactly. an adc is so common on small controllers.
[19:48] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:49] <Chinesium> Arduino does :)
[19:50] * eliudnir (~eliudnir@c-107-3-149-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:50] <brianx> it's also easy to simulate an adc with a couple digital gpio and a capacitor.
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[19:55] <nicolas17> does the raspberry pi have a CPU temperature sensor?
[19:55] * KindOne (kindone@freenode/father-christmas/kindone) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:55] <ShorTie> ya
[19:55] <Psi-Jack> Yes
[19:56] <nicolas17> how do I access it? I seem to remember installing lm-sensors and getting no info
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[19:59] <nicolas17> oh, lame
[19:59] <Psi-Jack> cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp
[19:59] <nicolas17> just tried lm-sensors again, doesn't find anything
[19:59] <nicolas17> /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp works
[19:59] <Psi-Jack> echo $(($(cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp) / 1000))
[19:59] <Psi-Jack> That's Celcius
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[20:01] * KindOne (kindone@freenode/father-christmas/kindone) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:01] <Psi-Jack> You can get the GPU temperature with vcgencmd measure_temp
[20:02] <Psi-Jack> Hmm, then again, that's the exact same thing. Nevermind. LOL
[20:04] * KindTwo is now known as KindOne
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[20:25] * Tachyon` is now known as Tachaway
[20:27] <Pennth> Btw, anyone know if the broadcom wifi chips on the pi3 and 0w are vulnerable to https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2017/04/over-air-exploiting-broadcoms-wi-fi_4.html?
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[20:29] * ali1234 (~ajbuxton@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:29] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Well, that diagram at least talks about an 802.11ac, which the RPi3 doesn't have.
[20:29] * Valduare (~Valduare@97-94-35-98.static.ftbg.wi.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:31] <Pennth> True, but they also don't mention specific chip models in the bug report, so I think it might be a general firmware issue
[20:31] <Pennth> BCM4339 SoC is the only exmple given in one of the reports
[20:31] <Pennth> (https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1059)
[20:31] <Psi-Jack> Valid point.
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[20:41] <brianx> could easily be that this specific chip is the only one that's been analyzed by this group so far.
[20:43] * Doros (~Doros@cpc101298-bagu16-2-0-cust142.1-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[20:49] <ali1234> i would bet money on every baseband being full of holes like that
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[20:50] <ali1234> especially mobile ones
[20:50] <ali1234> they're designed entirely to protect the network from the user
[20:50] <brianx> ^^^ my money is in the same place.
[20:52] <ali1234> actually thats the whole reason why baseband processors exist in the first place
[20:52] <brianx> honestly, i look forward to more and more going into the radio's co processor. the more they do there, the simpler the interface is from the application processor side and the more likely we'll see better open source for the rest of it.
[20:52] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:52] <ali1234> in order to get a device certified you have to prove that it cannot operate outside of the limits
[20:53] <ali1234> if there was no baseband insulating the radio from the user OS, they'd have to re-certify for every new app in the android app store, for example
[20:53] <brianx> when the firmware is loaded from the application processor, the idea of "cannot" seems absurd, but ok.
[20:53] <ali1234> the firmware has to be signed
[20:54] <brianx> didn't seem to stop the researchers linked above.
[20:54] <ali1234> they exploited it from the other side
[20:54] * Hix (~hix@2a02:c7f:7e28:3800:49da:9b2a:22b0:adaf) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:54] <ali1234> all the security is about isolating the radio from the userspace, not the other way around
[20:55] * cave (~various@2001:15c0:65ff:8850::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:55] <ali1234> they attacked through the network, took over the radio, then took over userspace
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[21:03] <LeCamarade> Hello, all; I have a Pi plugged into HDMI, and I have just install XFCE4 on the latest Raspbian Lite. I installed Slim Desktop Manager, and rebooted. But now, when I type `startx`, it says connection refused could not connect to display :0.
[21:03] <LeCamarade> Any ideas?
[21:04] <LeCamarade> Everything is fine, but HDMI does not show me the X session like I expect it to.
[21:04] * squelch (~squelch@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:06] * ali1234 (~ajbuxton@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:07] <LeCamarade> In fact, the startxfce4 is set for auto login, but I do not see that happening. 🙁
[21:08] * mihon (~mihon@c83-254-164-67.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:09] <LeCamarade> This page seems to be helping … https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=133691
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[22:14] <thepeter> has anybody experimented with Pi 3 to create PiPhone
[22:14] <thepeter> ?
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[22:14] * I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:15] <I_Died_Once> will the raspberry pi run off of power over ethernet ?
[22:15] <ali1234> no
[22:15] <leftyfb> uh
[22:15] <leftyfb> sort of
[22:15] <thepeter> I_Died_Once, nope
[22:16] <leftyfb> I_Died_Once: with an adapter it will
[22:16] <I_Died_Once> thanks :(
[22:16] <thepeter> leftyfb, oh
[22:16] <I_Died_Once> lefty can you link me to one?
[22:16] <leftyfb> http://a.co/2FGgYM5
[22:16] <leftyfb> just looking on google for "pi poe"
[22:16] <leftyfb> plus there are hats
[22:16] <I_Died_Once> amazing, thank you
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[22:17] <thepeter> oh nice, sorry I_Died_Once for missleading
[22:18] <I_Died_Once> s'all good, brotato chip
[22:18] <eliudnir> leftyfb, awesome, didn't even know i wanted one until now :P
[22:18] <I_Died_Once> would need to tone that back from 48v to 5
[22:18] <I_Died_Once> i would think
[22:18] <leftyfb> I_Died_Once: the adapter does tha
[22:18] <leftyfb> that*
[22:19] <leftyfb> I_Died_Once: you of course need a POE switch or injector
[22:19] <I_Died_Once> Support 48V Unsolicited Power Over Ethernet PoE Switch. Support 48V Unsolicited Power Over Ethernet PoE Adapter
[22:19] <I_Died_Once> derp
[22:19] * SunShangXiang is now known as cybr1d
[22:19] <eliudnir> it doesnt feed it that at full tilt
[22:19] <eliudnir> :P
[22:19] <I_Died_Once> would hope not
[22:20] <leftyfb> the adapter converts the 48V to 5V for the pi
[22:20] <I_Died_Once> looks like it does, amazing
[22:20] <I_Died_Once> you guys are the best, thanks
[22:21] * pilovernyc (9d8b131c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:22] <IT_Sean> I'm pretty sure 48vDC would cause a Pi to leap clean off the desk. lol.
[22:23] <brianx> lol
[22:23] <eliudnir> depends, mine is pretty well glued down in dried coca-cola syrup
[22:24] * squelch (~squelch@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:25] * binaryhermit wonders if applying 48v to a pi would cause a fire
[22:25] <selckin> try it
[22:26] * mihon (~mihon@c83-254-164-67.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:27] * IT_Sean applies 48vDC to binaryhermit's raspi
[22:28] * brianx inserts a dc-dc buck converter to save binaryhermit's pi.
[22:28] * jaziz (~jaziz@unaffiliated/jaziz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] <IT_Sean> too late.
[22:29] * IT_Sean points to the burnt spot on binaryhermit's desk
[22:30] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:30] * thepeter would like to try make this one http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartphone/ with up to date HW but can't find actually available cellular module for Europe
[22:30] <IT_Sean> I once did that for real, and entirely by accident. Not to a Pi though.
[22:31] <brianx> IT_Sean: if you haven't let any magic smoke out, you're not doing anything.
[22:31] <Psi-Jack> Hmm
[22:31] <IT_Sean> It was at a former job of mine.. I knocked a small screwdriver off a shelf above my desk, and it landed inside a device I had open and running for testing. It happened to land perfectly, so as to short the 48vDC rail to the 3.3v rail.
[22:31] <IT_Sean> it let out a LOT of magic smoke
[22:31] <brianx> lol
[22:31] * rwb (~Thunderbi@75-150-110-170-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[22:32] <brianx> i once built a new desktop with a nice new video card.
[22:32] <IT_Sean> I should mention... it was a prototype device, for a new product line my comapny was intro'ing. One of only two in existance.
[22:32] <brianx> the card had a bad capacitor on it and it became a little blowtorch. just kept going and going and going.
[22:33] <brianx> oh, that was an expensive device to destroy.
[22:33] <IT_Sean> I think I've got you beat. The device I destroyed was valued at several million dollars, when you factored in all the R&D that went into it. Although, really, it was only a few thou in actual build cost.
[22:34] <IT_Sean> I did not hear the end of that one for a very long time. :p
[22:35] <thecha> you gotta love that about tech the first device cost a million every other only a thousandth of that
[22:35] <oq> IT_Sean: dude, your first problem was having an open computer powered on...
[22:36] <IT_Sean> oq: It had to be! We were checking board level signaling against the spec from the engineers.
[22:36] <IT_Sean> My first mistake was keeping that damn screwdriver on that damn shelf!
[22:36] <oq> I wouldn't do that even with a shitty $200 desktop, let alone something worth a couple million
[22:36] <thecha> hindsight
[22:36] <thecha> is
[22:36] <thecha> 20/20
[22:37] <IT_Sean> It's not like I got fired, or anything. :p
[22:37] <thecha> the device was only worth a thousand
[22:37] <thecha> the idea of it was worth millions
[22:37] <IT_Sean> Basically.
[22:37] <thecha> but the physical representation was cheap
[22:37] <brianx> IT_Sean: yeah, you have mine beat. mine was covered by warranty. it was brand new. but i was surprised at how good that capacitor was at converting electricity to fire.
[22:38] <IT_Sean> thecha: the big issue was the lead time on building another prototype. Small volume production is a pain in the butt, and not cheap.
[22:38] <brianx> usually i expect components to let out a little smoke and die. not burn for many seconds.
[22:38] <thecha> oh i did not know this
[22:38] <thecha> i thought if you only build one you can do it very very fast
[22:39] <brianx> IT_Sean: my father ran the prototype shop for an electronics company back in the 80s. i'm quite familiar.
[22:39] <IT_Sean> thecha: yeah, was a prototype for an encrypted comms device. Was still very pre-production at that point. Each one built was a total one-off, as we kept making changes to the board.
[22:39] <thecha> how many version until industrial scale?
[22:39] <thepeter> (I would guess up to 100?)
[22:40] <IT_Sean> thecha: to go from prototype to production ready? Usually a few dozen iterations.
[22:40] <IT_Sean> There are some flaws you don't really see until you build the darn thing. Not to mention RF complaince and the like.
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[22:44] <thepeter> IT_Sean, seeing this I would like to know your opinion - let's say somebody would want to build device based on raspberry and some modules and after pre-alpha testing (yes I am a SW guy) would like to go and put these components on one board to polish the look etc what could be blockers?
[22:45] <IT_Sean> Whelp... you've got to design the board, or get someone who knows how. Then you've got to get someone to actually make the PCB (for the device you designed) & populate it. So, really, those things and the costs to doing so are likely your biggest obstical.
[22:45] <IT_Sean> If you know how to design PCBs, there are companies that will build 'em for you, at reasonably reasonable costs.
[22:45] <IT_Sean> thepeter: ^^
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[22:46] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Interesting.
[22:47] <IT_Sean> thepeter: I'd probably use the Compute Module, as you can easily slot that into a custom board, as it has the same connector footprint as, iirc, a RAM stick.
[22:47] <Psi-Jack> brianx: So someone actually did examine the garage door stuff a little more intensely than I have, yet.
[22:47] <brianx> oh Psi-Jack?
[22:47] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Apparently, it's a PWM encoded DC signal with highs around 18V, pulses at 80Hz that lasts for 200us.
[22:48] <brianx> is there a scope view or a better description of the controller side electronics?
[22:48] <Psi-Jack> brianx: When the light button is pressed, it uses the 1uF electrolytic capacitor which alters the PWM signal to have a low period of ~3ms. The lock button has a 22uF cap so the low signal is even longer.
[22:49] <Psi-Jack> When the door button is pressed, the wires are shorted, 0V no PWM.
[22:49] <Psi-Jack> Also, when the door is "locked" the LED is flashing, so there's a secondary PWM signal on the line during that time.
[22:49] <brianx> Psi-Jack: sounds consistent with my expectations.
[22:50] <Psi-Jack> A wide low pulse and the regular 80Hz
[22:50] <brianx> that wide low pulse could be a problem for your esp. you may have to run 2 wires and not just a ground.
[22:50] <brianx> power and ground.
[22:51] <Psi-Jack> Yeaaah.. I'm beginning to think the same thing.
[22:51] <thepeter> IT_Sean, thanks :) that looks very good, now it is up to find cellular module and then start experimenting
[22:51] <Psi-Jack> Seems like vampiring the power may be a bad idea afterall.
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[22:54] <brianx> yeah, if they have long dead spots it may not be possible to vampire power.
[22:55] <Psi-Jack> Especially the shorting.. That.. can be bad, too.
[22:55] <brianx> i'm sure the shorting is not long.
[22:55] <Psi-Jack> I suppose that depends on how long a human pushes the button down. :)
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[22:56] <brianx> true, but if it's them pushing it we don't care if we reboot.
[22:56] <Psi-Jack> Well, I do, actually. The recovery time to re-establish WiFi, MQTT, etc, can effect it all.
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[22:58] <brianx> so, make a board with all the capacitors and resistor of that switch board, let it live inside the main unit where it has power all the time without running wires.
[22:58] <Psi-Jack> So, now, all I need to do is simplify the design a bit, and make triggers for the short, 1uF, and 22uF over the line.
[22:59] <brianx> bring it all back into the overhead unit.
[22:59] * mihon (~mihon@c83-254-164-67.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:59] <brianx> also, if the controller is only looking at pulse width, you can digitally generate that with a single gpio output instead of messing with emulating their hardware in analog.
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[23:00] <IT_Sean> are you doing inaproperate things to a garage door opener?
[23:00] <Psi-Jack> No, I'm making the garage door opener better. :)
[23:00] <brianx> yes!
[23:00] <brianx> adding a 2nd control panel.
[23:00] <IT_Sean> Awesome. What's your 2nd control panel going to do?
[23:00] <brianx> letting a computer control that 2nd panel.
[23:01] <Psi-Jack> A securely connected HomeKit-enabled control panel.
[23:01] <IT_Sean> Aaaah. Awesome.
[23:01] <redrabbit> making the garage door opener great again
[23:01] <brianx> Psi-Jack: link to the additional research??
[23:01] <IT_Sean> You are IoT'ing your garage door.
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[23:01] <brianx> he is.
[23:01] <Psi-Jack> brianx: I found it... here.. Though it's stack exchange: http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/141076/how-does-the-automatic-garage-door-opener-know-which-button-ive-pushed-on-the-w
[23:01] <IT_Sean> Just make sure it's secure, aye? Don't want anyone with a laptop able to get in.
[23:01] <brianx> i think i sold Psi-Jack on using the existing up/down sensors in the controller too.
[23:02] <Psi-Jack> Eh.... Not sure yet. :)
[23:02] <redrabbit> make it with a nodemcu with the default firmware with the AI_THINKER_ ap
[23:02] <Psi-Jack> The controller as-is has no local source of power to power the ESP8266.
[23:02] <brianx> Psi-Jack: do you really need control of the light and lock function?
[23:03] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Well, I would like to be able to detect and toggle the lock function, turn on/off the light, and open/close the garage door. ;)
[23:03] <brianx> Psi-Jack: the controller (overhead with the motor) has AC power. all the power you could want!
[23:03] <redrabbit> id use PIR for the light
[23:03] <Psi-Jack> PIR? For light?
[23:03] <Psi-Jack> That's more for motion, not light. heh
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[23:04] <brianx> Psi-Jack: ok, so no simplifying by avoiding the two capacitor switches.
[23:04] <redrabbit> yeah it switches on light when there's movement
[23:04] <Psi-Jack> redrabbit: heh
[23:04] <Psi-Jack> Valid point.
[23:05] <Psi-Jack> And the light itself in the motor auto shuts off after a while.
[23:05] <redrabbit> why bother doing it manully
[23:05] <brianx> you can always attach a pir sensor to your esp and keep the light on when it sees motion.
[23:05] <Psi-Jack> Well, there's no need to turn the light on during the daylight hours? ;)
[23:05] <redrabbit> you add a switch
[23:05] <brianx> an led makes a fine cheap daylight sensor.
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[23:06] <brianx> can trigger a transistor which can then be read by a gpio.
[23:06] <Psi-Jack> Anyway, I have an appointment to go to that I almost forgot about.
[23:06] <Psi-Jack> Definitely want to continue this discussion when we can pick back up.
[23:06] <brianx> later. will read the link.
[23:06] <redrabbit> cu
[23:16] <InventorTechie> Best secure/lightweight web server for Raspberry Pi?
[23:16] <CoJaBo> nginx?
[23:17] <InventorTechie> Interesting vote there ;-)
[23:17] <brianx> nginx.
[23:19] <brianx> unless the content is only a small amount of static only files that will be served rarely to only one or two users. then one of the really lightweight ones makes more sense. uhttpd for example.
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[23:24] <SpeedEvil> The storage is probably more of an issue than the CPU
[23:25] <brianx> depends on what's being served and how often. storage is a big bottleneck if there is more content than available ram to cache it.
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[23:26] <brianx> SpeedEvil: do you have a launchpad account? if yes, could you verify my bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/raspbian/+bug/1632555
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> I do not, and hence no.
[23:26] <brianx> ok, thanks anyway.
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[23:42] <halabund> Would anyone here who uses Mathematica on RPi2 or RPi3 be willing to run a test for me?
[23:42] <brianx> i have a pi3 with full jessie, but headless.
[23:43] <brianx> if your test can be done headless, i could.
[23:43] <halabund> It can, I’ll walk you through it.
[23:43] <brianx> move to pm?
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