#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2017-04-20

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[1:32] * comradegarry (~garry@cpe-66-69-2-28.satx.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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[1:36] * Johnny_Mnemonic (~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-mnemonic/x-5193298) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:37] <kzisme> When installing via noobs
[1:37] <kzisme> For Keyboard which is the best option? (I'm in US)
[1:37] * aw17 (ALW@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-ordqhykmxyyxadfu) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:38] <ShorTie> why you using noobs if i can ask ??
[1:38] * Johnny_Mnemonic (~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-mnemonic/x-5193298) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:39] <ShorTie> most just write the image
[1:39] * chartreuse (~chartreus@node-1w7jr9y881r277rp4g0c4jazs.ipv6.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] * Johnny_Mnemonic (~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-mnemonic/x-5193298) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] * furkan (~furkan@CPE44d9e793b293-CM78cd8eccfad5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[1:41] <kzisme> ShorTie: No reason really aside from that's what the quick start said
[1:42] <kzisme> I've installed Arch before on my Thinkpad and many other linux distros - just figured it was what most did
[1:43] <ShorTie> https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/
[1:43] * diK (~diK@2a02:810c:86c0:ec:2294:12e3:de8d:3a85) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:44] <kzisme> ShorTie: Yeah that's what I'm installing now - is there a difference from what i'm doing now though?
[1:44] <kzisme> Already installing heh
[1:44] <ShorTie> just grab 1 of those and use win32diskimager or dd to write it to the sdcard
[1:45] <ShorTie> yes, big differance in the way sdcard is formated
[1:45] * bpye (~quassel@unaffiliated/bpye) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[1:45] * furkan (~furkan@CPE44d9e793b293-CM78cd8eccfad5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:47] * Mr_Sheesh (~mr_s@unaffiliated/mr-sheesh/x-0757054) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:47] <kzisme> ShorTie: Doing that now then
[1:47] <brianx> noobs allows some additional options/features but also creates additional problems and differences.
[1:47] <brianx> good kzisme.
[1:47] * rikk (~rikk@unaffiliated/rikk) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:50] <kzisme> brianx: I just hope it downloads faster xD ShorTie
[1:50] <brianx> it shouldn't have any impact there kzisme
[1:50] <kzisme> No I mean downloading the ZIP for raspbian
[1:50] <kzisme> I bought a Samsung EVO micro as well for random writes
[1:50] <brianx> yes, so did i
[1:50] <kzisme> Happy with it?
[1:50] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:51] <kzisme> Wait....do I already have the images for Raspbian in the noob download?
[1:51] <brianx> i have a Samsung EVO 16 that is still alive. the other failed. also have a Samsung EVO 32, not sure about it after the 16 died.
[1:51] <kzisme> (it looks like it)
[1:52] <brianx> dunno, check the checksum to be sure it pulled the file you expect.
[1:53] <ShorTie> how you powering the pi kzisme if i can ask ??
[1:54] * ball (~ball@99-100-253-3.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:54] <kzisme> one of these ShorTie https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MARDJZ4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[1:55] <ShorTie> Cool
[1:55] <kzisme> I bought a sense hat as well
[1:55] <ShorTie> i like the 5.25v@3amp supplies personally
[1:56] <ShorTie> but that looks like a gooder
[1:57] <kzisme> heh I'm just really excited
[1:58] * uks (~uksio@p20030069AF18257D38640502FB07FC54.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:59] <ball> ShorTie: Don't they have 5V at 3A?
[2:00] * uksio (~uksio@p20030069AF182509F12A87446543A787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2:00] <redrabbit> i bought a 5v 5a psu
[2:00] <redrabbit> soldered 3x micro usb connectors to two wire cables
[2:01] * de-facto (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto) Quit (Quit: See you around.)
[2:01] * de-facto (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:01] <redrabbit> runs 3 pi, charges my phone, and has dupont female connectors for breadboards
[2:01] * diK (~diK@ has joined #raspberrypi
[2:02] <redrabbit> no more messing with all theses chargers
[2:03] <amigojapan_bnc> hmmm, I may try building an RPI3+touchscreen liek teh one i buit here https://imgur.com/a/C5tHm and try selling it on Yahoo Auctions… see if I can make some pocket money…
[2:03] * batch (~batch@unaffiliated/batch) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:04] * jarjarPHP (423c83c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[2:04] <kzisme> think it would sell amigojapan_bnc ?
[2:05] <amigojapan_bnc> kzisme: I think the only way to know is to try putting it on the auction and trying, worst comes to worst, I am just stuck with a seconds RPI touchpad
[2:05] <kzisme> heh
[2:06] <amigojapan_bnc> kzisme: I calculated the cost to me if I use a 63GB SD card, would be around 200USD
[2:06] <kzisme> not bad
[2:08] <amigojapan_bnc> kzisme: and I need to pay about 4USD per month to have a seller account on yahoo acution… so I would add that to the cost, but I dont knwo how much time this takes, I have never sold anything on yahoo auction
[2:09] <kzisme> i didnt even know yahoo had auction platform lol
[2:09] <amigojapan_bnc> kzisme: well, Yahoo is mroe improant than google in Japan… it has many things
[2:09] <amigojapan_bnc> kzisme: we dont have ebay, yahoo auction is our ebay
[2:09] <kzisme> ah ive neverb een to japan
[2:10] <kzisme> in the US we only really use ebay
[2:10] <amigojapan_bnc> I see
[2:10] <Kitlith> amigojapan_bnc, http://www.ebayjapan.co.jp/ doesn't exist?
[2:10] * alexandre9099 (~alexandre@gateway/tor-sasl/alexandre9099) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[2:10] <kzisme> I haven't purposely visited yahoo in years
[2:11] <Kitlith> or https://www.ebay.co.jp/
[2:11] <amigojapan_bnc> ok Kitlith I thought it did not exist, well, anyway yahoo auction is mroe famous here
[2:11] <Kitlith> fair enough
[2:12] * alexandre9099 (~alexandre@gateway/tor-sasl/alexandre9099) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:15] * Johnny_Mnemonic (~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-mnemonic/x-5193298) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:16] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@81-5-236-239.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:18] * Johnny_Mnemonic (~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-mnemonic/x-5193298) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:20] <amigojapan_bnc> kzisme: yahoo is hte mains earch engine in Japan, it has many Japan specific things, like an web ap to find your way thru the train system
[2:20] * almostworking is now known as almst_mobile
[2:20] * almst_mobile is now known as almostworking
[2:21] * bpye (~quassel@unaffiliated/bpye) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
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[2:22] <Philip_J_Fry> how responsive would linux be on raspberry pi?
[2:22] * bpye (~quassel@unaffiliated/bpye) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:22] * H__ (~H__Freeno@unaffiliated/h/x-9670680) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:22] <amigojapan_bnc> Philip_J_Fry: on the RPI3 Raspbian is quite responsive
[2:22] * Rootert (~Rootert@82-168-15-181.ip.open.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:23] <Philip_J_Fry> does it break when overheats, therman throttle?
[2:23] <amigojapan_bnc> Philip_J_Fry: even chrome running falsh is retty good
[2:23] <Philip_J_Fry> thermal*
[2:23] <Philip_J_Fry> i want it for kali
[2:23] <amigojapan_bnc> Philip_J_Fry: my experience is that you dont even need heatsinks
[2:23] <amigojapan_bnc> Philip_J_Fry: but I have not tried overclocking it
[2:24] <kzisme> which part of japan are you from if you dont mind me asking
[2:24] <amigojapan_bnc> Philip_J_Fry: whay kind of thing would you be using that you think it would overheat?
[2:24] <Philip_J_Fry> im just debating on whether i should put it on raspberry or an android
[2:24] * Johnny_Mnemonic (~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-mnemonic/x-5193298) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:25] <kzisme> 2 minutes left to download this Raspbian image ShorTie and brianx
[2:25] <kzisme> :D
[2:25] <amigojapan_bnc> kzisme: well, I am nto actuallyf rom Japan, but I have been living in the Tokyo area for about 15 years
[2:25] <kzisme> I'm assuming you like it then? :)
[2:26] <Philip_J_Fry> amigojapan_bnc: bruteforce
[2:26] <amigojapan_bnc> kzisme: yeah, there are good and bad things here, but in general I am very grateful to Japan
[2:26] * Rootert (~Rootert@82-168-15-181.ip.open.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:26] <amigojapan_bnc> ok Philip_J_Fry , sorry, never tried that
[2:27] * insomnia (~insomnia@unaffiliated/insomnia) Quit (Quit: Server depart.)
[2:27] <Philip_J_Fry> raspberry is a great abandonware hacking tool
[2:27] <Philip_J_Fry> in my mind
[2:27] <Philip_J_Fry> i am researching
[2:27] <kzisme> how do you mean Philip_J_Fry
[2:28] <Philip_J_Fry> well, its a portable computer, if you put powerful software on it, you can do things with it
[2:28] <kzisme> Why call it abandonware
[2:28] <Philip_J_Fry> like you can crack wifi
[2:29] <Philip_J_Fry> because some applications require leaving it behind or discarting it so you arent caught with your pants down
[2:29] <amigojapan_bnc> Philip_J_Fry: I guess you dont need me to tell you, but bruteforceing logins is ilegal and could get you in trouble
[2:29] <Philip_J_Fry> not if you are testing your own network for vulnerabilities
[2:29] <kzisme> amigojapan_bnc: I mean it would be a nice pentesting tool I suppose is a better work
[2:29] <kzisme> word
[2:29] <Philip_J_Fry> and not logins
[2:30] <clever> i have seen some videos where pentesters plug an rpi into the switch somewhere, and just leave it behind
[2:30] <amigojapan_bnc> ah ok Philip_J_Fry
[2:30] <clever> if you add a usb 3g modem, you now have a backdoor into any network
[2:30] <Philip_J_Fry> clever: yep, abandonware
[2:30] <Philip_J_Fry> but at the same time you can use a cheap android phone for this same thing
[2:30] <amigojapan_bnc> clever: I am just using tethering to my smartphone
[2:31] <Philip_J_Fry> so im looking at raspberry prospects
[2:31] * cnnx (~cnnx@unaffiliated/cnnx) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:31] <clever> Philip_J_Fry: you would need to root the phone before you can really use it the same, and it wont have ethernet
[2:31] <clever> but yeah, a phone on charge in an office would look totally normal
[2:31] <Philip_J_Fry> id imagine
[2:31] <clever> they would just ignore it for weeks
[2:32] <clever> but you would need to crack the wifi before it can really do any good
[2:32] * H__ (~H__Freeno@unaffiliated/h/x-9670680) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:32] <Philip_J_Fry> i mean either raspberry or a phone could do
[2:32] <cnnx> anyone built a robot with APM/RPI together?
[2:33] <Philip_J_Fry> clever: thats the thing that i want to explore, beginning at how quick or not quick it would be at cracking wifi and getting online and further in
[2:33] <kzisme> OK so I used winwrite tool to write the debian image to my micro
[2:33] <kzisme> now when powering it on
[2:33] <kzisme> its just a red led
[2:33] <clever> Philip_J_Fry: and also, id never run aircrack directly on a pi or phone, id airdump the packets, then upload them to a proper x86 machine with more power
[2:34] <Philip_J_Fry> i am, currently learning on a laptop, will transition further to rasp if success
[2:34] <Philip_J_Fry> clever: it wouldnt handle the dump?
[2:34] <clever> Philip_J_Fry: wep cracking needs a ton of cpu power, and a decent x86 machine can do it in minutes
[2:35] <Philip_J_Fry> damn good point
[2:35] <clever> wpa is a different beast though
[2:35] <Philip_J_Fry> although, even if it does take time, it could be an abandonware, leave it and let it do the job
[2:35] <clever> with WPA, you only need 1 packet, but you must have the password in a dictionary
[2:36] <clever> yeah, WEP needs several hours to gather enough packets to make the cracking easy
[2:36] <clever> but once you have enough packets, an x86 can break it pretty fast
[2:36] <Philip_J_Fry> clever: minute of talking to you has taught me a lot
[2:36] <clever> oh, and a cellphone may lack monitor mode, required for wpa/wep cracking
[2:37] <Philip_J_Fry> does any of it use GPU for faster decoding?
[2:37] <clever> the tools ive used didnt
[2:37] <clever> but i havent done it much lately
[2:38] <Philip_J_Fry> theres a large open source app for encryption cracking, i had the link saved somewhere, but i guess its a bit different, they built huge machine, with tons of GPUs
[2:38] * feksclaus (~feksclaus@80-71-131-204.u.parknet.dk) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
[2:38] <HrdwrBoB> there's also a lot of stuff that CAN be done
[2:38] <HrdwrBoB> that isn't easy
[2:38] <Philip_J_Fry> clever: kali?
[2:38] <clever> with WPA, the password is based on both the network name, and the passphrase you picked
[2:38] <HrdwrBoB> the reality is if you care enough you can get into anything
[2:38] <clever> so even if 2 networks name the same password, you have to re-compute the key based on the name
[2:39] <clever> and with aircrack, there are tools to take a list of X network names, and Y passwords, then compute the X*Y keys that could potentialy be used
[2:39] <clever> then you can run thru that database, and test it all against the auth packet from a WPA session
[2:39] <clever> but it only works if you already have the password in a list
[2:40] <Philip_J_Fry> i got the tools, i dont have any libraries
[2:40] <Philip_J_Fry> it all seems too much for raspberry, even if there is kali for it
[2:40] * Sashimi (~Sashimi@2a01cb0407cf5d000893b90e09bf0748.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[2:41] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:3db7:73b2:196c:784d) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:41] <Philip_J_Fry> in my mind raspberry could be a relay station so you could work remotely
[2:41] <clever> yeah
[2:42] <Philip_J_Fry> fun stuff, ill have to experiment on my laptop first, then look at rasp if it hooks me
[2:43] * humbot (~i@unaffiliated/humbag) Quit (Quit: oops)
[2:43] <Philip_J_Fry> interesting ppl in a lot of IRC places, so glad i learn how to use it ~a year ago
[2:46] * kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@c-98-195-204-9.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:46] * redfire (~redfire@cpe-24-209-107-137.cinci.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:49] * shakes (~shakes@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/shakes) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:49] <kzisme> woo!
[2:49] <kzisme> got my pi up and running :)
[2:50] <shakes> grats
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[2:51] * Stromeko (~Stromeko@p5B2F3AED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:52] <ball> Well done!
[2:52] <ball> kzisme: Do you have plans for it?
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[2:52] <kzisme> Astro hat Golang weather station
[2:53] <kzisme> ball: So what is the best shell for raspbian?
[2:53] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:3db7:73b2:196c:784d) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[2:53] <leftyfb> kzisme: the one that fits your personal needs and preferences the best
[2:54] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:54] <ball> kzisme: I don't know Linux but leftyfb's answer sounds good to me.
[2:55] * kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@c-98-195-204-9.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2:55] <leftyfb> kzisme: bash is the default shell and one of the most popular. It'll be easier to find documentation/tutorials on as well
[2:55] <ball> I hope to return a little later.
[2:55] * ball (~ball@99-100-253-3.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) has left #raspberrypi
[2:56] <shakes> bash, csh perhaps
[2:56] <kzisme> I'm setting up ssh now
[2:57] <leftyfb> love me some ssh
[2:58] <leftyfb> tunnels, proxies, autossh, keys, etc
[2:58] <leftyfb> kzisme: if you need a sort of vpn into a remote network you have ssh access to, look at sshuttle
[2:58] <kzisme> yeah I shall thanks
[2:59] <kzisme> I'm just setting it up so I can work from my Mac as well
[2:59] <kzisme> or elsewhere
[3:00] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:2032:ecbd:5ca5:3529) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:02] <shakes> not sure if there is a mac version but bitvise is a good client
[3:02] <leftyfb> why?
[3:03] <leftyfb> shakes: "ssh" is a good client built into mac and linux
[3:04] <shakes> from console dropping to freebsd or a graphic based one. Sorry no doodles about mac
[3:04] <leftyfb> huh?
[3:05] <leftyfb> "dropping to freebsd"?
[3:05] * TReK (~UnFaQ@unaffiliated/trek) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:05] <HrdwrBoB> leftyfb: autossh tunnels make cheez wizz of even the most belligerent of firewalls
[3:06] <shakes> just a friend used a macbook and spent most of his time in a unix shell that osx was built on
[3:06] <HrdwrBoB> leftyfb: I am not above tunnelling over tunnels, either
[3:06] <shakes> this was ages ago so perhaps not a option now
[3:06] <leftyfb> HrdwrBoB: i've been using sshuttle for years without issue
[3:06] <shakes> built on freebsd not the shell
[3:06] * bpye (~quassel@unaffiliated/bpye) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[3:06] <HrdwrBoB> moral of the story, if firewall people weren't so irritating
[3:07] <HrdwrBoB> I wouldn't have to
[3:07] <leftyfb> HrdwrBoB: it shouldn't affect anything outside of the client you're running it on
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[3:12] * ball (~ball@99-100-253-3.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:14] <CoJaBo> so, i got a pi w
[3:15] * Johnny_21 (~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-mnemonic/x-5193298) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:15] * Armand (~Armand@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[3:15] <ball> CoJaBo: A Pi Zero W?
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[3:15] <CoJaBo> Razz
[3:15] <CoJaBo> YES
[3:16] <CoJaBo> Dunno what to do with it lol
[3:16] <ball> I would like one of those to potch with but I haven't even seen a Zero in the wild yet.
[3:18] * Johnny_Mnemonic (~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-mnemonic/x-5193298) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[3:18] * diK (~diK@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:25] * jdawgaz (~Jerry@ip70-176-27-239.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[3:26] * bpye (~quassel@unaffiliated/bpye) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[3:26] <Valduare> https://www.wish.com/#cid=586c3d7c2727304ef483e4bd
[3:27] <leftyfb> Valduare: link doesn't work unless you have an account
[3:27] <Valduare> should get an account :P
[3:28] * angelluis (~angelluis@ Quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
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[3:35] <CoJaBo> ball: Microporous has them
[3:36] <CoJaBo> ball: microcenter
[3:36] <CoJaBo> If there's one nearby; IM house from the merest>_>
[3:36] <CoJaBo> hours even
[3:37] <ball> There's one in the Chicago suburbs. I think I went there with my boss once before he was promoted.
[3:38] <ball> He seems keen for Raspberry Pi to be company-issue. :-D
[3:40] <kzisme> anyone ever ran into SSL certs failing on the pi?
[3:41] <leftyfb> kzisme: SSL certs for what? Also, it's nothing to do with it being on a pi
[3:41] <kzisme> https://go.googlesource.com/go on my mac is secure but on my pi it says it is insecure
[3:42] <kzisme> just trying to get Golang up and running now
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[3:43] <blinkingprompt> lets say i have a pi connected to a TV with HDMI, i am logged into pi over the command line
[3:43] <blinkingprompt> is there anyway to get the TV to display an image via command line?
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[3:47] <ball> blinkingprompt: Yes.
[3:47] <ball> (probably)
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[4:03] <Philip_J_Fry> guys i have a question about miniSD cards, does the high speed SD card give any performance boost like the case is with PC's? or is everything limited by the processor/ram?
[4:03] <Philip_J_Fry> far before memory comes to play
[4:03] <Philip_J_Fry> i have a miniSD that is 40/20 read write, not sure if garbage
[4:04] <Philip_J_Fry> considering iphone memory is gigs/secodn
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[4:14] <CoJaBo> Philip_J_Fry: I've noticed those tend to be pretty meaningless even with high-speed devices
[4:15] <ball> Philip_J_Fry: I've never even seen a MiniSD card
[4:15] <ball> ...I've seen plenty of MicroSD
[4:15] <ball> ...I'm guessing MiniSD is somewhere between MicroSD and full-sized SD.
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[4:31] <kzisme> leftyfb: Sort was - date was off on the OS and that's why the cert was failing
[4:32] <ball> Ah, that'll be because there's no RTC, right?
[4:32] <ball> ...do Raspberry Pi Linux images ship with NTP turned on?
[4:33] * snowkidind (~textual@216-15-40-124.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: astalaPIZZA Baby!)
[4:33] <clever> ball: yes
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[4:33] <ball> That makes sense.
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[4:34] <kzisme> RTC = ?
[4:34] <clever> real time clock
[4:35] <kzisme> Ah
[4:35] <kzisme> Interesting
[4:35] <kzisme> Yeah it was close (was on April 10th)
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[4:35] <clever> there is a script in rasbian, that saves the clock to the SD card at shutdown
[4:35] <clever> and then restores the value at bootup
[4:35] <clever> so the clock will basicaly just stop ticking when the pi is off
[4:35] <kzisme> it's there by default?
[4:35] <clever> yeah
[4:36] <clever> ntp will then fix that, when you get network access
[4:36] <ball> clever: ...and NTP will have less of a struggle making up the gap.
[4:36] <kzisme> Do I have to set it to run?
[4:36] <ball> (e.g. two days Vs. 47 years ;-)
[4:37] <clever> kzisme: its enabled by default
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[5:03] <Jimmy_Tango> Hey, what's the best way for a raspberry pi to notify me when it loses internet? Ping every 15min, then when it doesn't notify?
[5:04] * StCypher (~StCypher@2605:e000:935d:2700:9f5:21e5:b193:5917) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:04] <leftyfb> Jimmy_Tango: how would it notify you without internet?
[5:05] * A_Storm (~A_Storm@50-88-243-132.res.bhn.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[5:05] <Jimmy_Tango> I was thinking a database each pi sends info to, then when the server sees it misses a check in, it notfies me
[5:06] <Jimmy_Tango> would that be the best way or is there an easier way I'm just not thinking of
[5:06] <leftyfb> so it wouldn't be the pi notifying you, it would be a monitoring solution/service checking in
[5:06] <Jimmy_Tango> yes
[5:06] <leftyfb> nagios/icinga
[5:06] <leftyfb> or a service like pingdom
[5:07] <leftyfb> or write your own
[5:07] * A_Storm (~A_Storm@50-88-243-132.res.bhn.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:07] <Jimmy_Tango> doesn't those require a port open in the firewall?
[5:08] <Jimmy_Tango> let's say I don't have access to the routers and there might be around 400 of them.
[5:08] <leftyfb> if you run your own nagios server it wouldn't. There's the NRPE agent
[5:11] <Jimmy_Tango> wow that's expensive, looks like i'm writing my own
[5:12] <leftyfb> uh
[5:12] <leftyfb> nagios is free
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[5:12] <Jimmy_Tango> Nagios XI?
[5:12] * ShapeShifter499 (~ShapeShif@unaffiliated/shapeshifter499) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:13] <leftyfb> there's nagios3 and icinga2 both installable from the raspbian repositories
[5:13] <leftyfb> there's also checkmk
[5:13] * webdev007 (~webdev007@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:13] <leftyfb> check-mk*
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[5:25] <Jimmy_Tango> leftyfb, just spun up a docker container with nagios. Looks pretty good! Thanks!
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[5:47] <xtina> hey guys! i have a Pi v2 camera and have been livestreaming video from it. my videos are not great quality. i'm trying to figure out the issue. 1) camera out of focus? 2) low encoding quality? 3) this is what you get from Pi v2 cameras?
[5:47] <xtina> here's a sample stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vS_eMBX9I
[5:48] <leftyfb> low lighting
[5:48] * slv (~slv@66-87-124-6.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:49] <xtina> leftyfb: most of the video is in bright sunlight, e.g. when i'm walking outside
[5:49] <xtina> (if you skip a bit forward in the video)
[5:49] <xtina> but the video is fairly low quality throughout
[5:50] <xtina> e.g. around the 11:00 mark
[5:51] <xtina> i'm feeling that perhaps the camera is out of focus because I have another Pi camera that has a Sainsmart modification (wide angle lens atachment). here is the comparison
[5:51] <leftyfb> is this livestreamed to youtube?
[5:51] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@81-5-236-239.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:51] <xtina> pi v2 camera used for streaming (bad quality): http://imgur.com/a/aOqNG
[5:51] <xtina> sainsmart pi v1 camera (good quality??): http://imgur.com/a/tuqwH
[5:52] <xtina> doesn't the sainsmart pi v1 camera look far sharper and clearer despite being a 5MP older version?
[5:52] <xtina> both photos were taken using "raspistill -o test.jpg"
[5:52] <xtina> my v2 camera's image is so fuzzy and unclear
[5:52] <xtina> whether it's video or photos
[5:53] <xtina> leftyfb: this was streamed to youtube but as you can see, even still photos look better from a Sainsmart v1 pi camera than my v2?
[5:55] <xtina> i'm trying to understand if this sample photo i took from my v2 camera is about the quality we can expect from v2 cameras
[5:55] <xtina> or if maybe my camera is out of focus
[6:00] * brokaw (~textual@216-188-254-66.dyn.grandenetworks.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[6:01] <xtina> i've seen some sample shots here: http://raspi.tv/2016/new-and-old-raspberry-pi-camera-comparison-shots-1-3-2-1-noir
[6:01] <xtina> my pi v2's raspistill shots look much less vivid, less sharp: http://imgur.com/a/aOqNG
[6:02] * chen (~fury@pipe.bannerfree.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:03] <xtina> any ideas? am i just seeing things?
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[6:15] <xtina> also, i just tried refocusing the lens by twisting it a little bit with pliers
[6:16] <xtina> now i get this error: mmal: mmal_vc_component_create: failed to create component 'vc.ril.camera' (1:ENOMEM)
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[6:20] <Sonny_Jim> whoops
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[7:23] <kzisme> Has anyone had their pi freeze before when compiling something?
[7:26] * talmai (~T@c-24-147-97-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mining)
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[7:35] <Sonny_Jim> kzisme: Is it overclocked?
[7:35] <kzisme> nah just stock i rebooted it and it got past the build at that point
[7:35] <kzisme> CPU is maxed out though while compiling this
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[8:15] <brainzap> good morning EU
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[9:46] <Hanonim> Hi folks !$
[9:53] <Drzacek> Hi Hanonim
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[9:57] <Hanonim> It's been a while since I've been here. Anything new and exciting in the RPI world ?
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[10:01] * DSdavidDS (2d325735@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[10:02] <DSdavidDS> Hi everyone! I was wondering if there is anything interesting I can run on my pi's terminal (ssh) while it is idle
[10:03] <DSdavidDS> currently im just running 'top' so I can see the computer stats
[10:03] <Drzacek> Hanonim, all kinds of stuff, depends on what you find exciting and how long you were absent.
[10:05] <Drzacek> and it looks like this answer is also valid for your question DSdavidDS :D
[10:05] <Hanonim> a couple months maybe
[10:06] <Drzacek> Hanonim, pi0w is out, smallest rpi with built-in wireless, not-so-cheap as original pi0 but still nice
[10:06] * RaTTuS|BIG (~RaTTuSBIG@37.152-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) Quit ()
[10:07] <Hanonim> Drzacek: is it easily available ? pi0 wasn't
[10:07] <Drzacek> DSdavidDS, it comes down to what you want to do on your rpi. Did you just set your first rpi with ssh and have no idea what to do with it (looking for cool projects) or do you actually have a use for it that requires ssh connection, but want the screen to print something when you wait?
[10:07] * arubislander (~ubuntuadm@ has left #raspberrypi
[10:08] <Drzacek> Hanonim, pi0 was relatively easy available, given you wanted to buy only one piece at a time
[10:08] <Hanonim> yes, but 1 at a time is inconveniant
[10:09] <Drzacek> no idea about pi0w though, since I already have 3 rpi @ home and they are collecting dust most of the time
[10:10] <Drzacek> DSdavidDS, try cmatrix if you just want stuff to show up on the screen :D
[10:11] <DSdavidDS> Drzacek: no uses atmaa xD
[10:11] <DSdavidDS> okay, ill check it out!
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[10:25] <Hanonim> Technical question. About each pin can be turned into an interrupt, but what happens if one do it ? Every interrupt possible ? Might there be conflicts or should work just fine ?
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[10:37] <Hitechcg> DSdavidDS: take a look at htop, it's like top on steroids
[10:37] <Hitechcg> with colors and mouse support
[10:37] <DSdavidDS> yep, im using htop atm ;]
[10:37] <DSdavidDS> woah, I didnt know mouse worked with this program
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[10:44] <Hanonim> does anyone use pi4j ?
[10:48] <polprog> that java lib?
[10:49] <Hanonim> yes
[10:49] <polprog> Hitechcg: htop rocks. also iotop is worth trying. and powertop is cool too
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[10:53] <Hitechcg> powertop's more useless on a Pi
[10:53] <Hitechcg> it's mostly useful for laptops
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[12:03] <AndreeeCZ> hi! I'd like to you a RPi1 to flash arduinos with avrdude. The same command `avrdude -v -v -patmega2560 -cwiring -P/dev/ttyACM0 -b115200 -V -D -Uflash:w:fw.hex:i` works fine on x86_64, but refuses to work the PI. This is stock completely fresh raspbian lite
[12:04] <AndreeeCZ> fw.hex is the same file
[12:04] <AndreeeCZ> this is the error i get: https://pastebin.com/17NMh4YV
[12:04] * blinkingprompt (~robot@unaffiliated/blinkingprompt) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
[12:05] <AndreeeCZ> Any ideas why this is happening?
[12:06] <gordonDrogon> AndreeeCZ, check permissions. type id and ls -l /dev/ttyACM0
[12:06] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:2032:ecbd:5ca5:3529) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:07] <gordonDrogon> make sure your pi user is a member of the group the /dev/ttyACM0 is in.
[12:07] <AndreeeCZ> running as root
[12:08] <gordonDrogon> something else then.
[12:08] <gordonDrogon> maybe a different programmer - the 'wiring' programmer?
[12:09] * mihon (~mihon@c83-254-164-67.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:09] <AndreeeCZ> -cwiring is already there
[12:09] <AndreeeCZ> i tried stk500v2, same problem
[12:09] * TReK (~UnFaQ@unaffiliated/trek) Quit (Quit: ZNC.)
[12:10] <gordonDrogon> I usually use the 'arduino' programmer, but that's because that's what's bee bootloaded into my ATmegas...
[12:11] <gordonDrogon> avrdude -V -p $(MCU) -P /dev/ttyUSB0 -c arduino -b 115200 -U flash:w:$(TARGET).hex:i
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[12:12] <AndreeeCZ> my bootloader doesnt support -carduino
[12:12] <gordonDrogon> I've not used a '2560 for some time.
[12:12] * andor2007 (~andor2007@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust991.4-4.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:13] <AndreeeCZ> i just dont understand why the same thing works on archlinux x64 and doesnt on raspbian
[12:13] <gordonDrogon> I'd remove the -D flag for good measure though.
[12:13] <gordonDrogon> anyway, coffee time.back later.
[12:13] <AndreeeCZ> enjoy, i go lunch :)
[12:13] <AndreeeCZ> thx for now
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[12:29] * Armand (~armand@2a01:9cc0:40:6:69c8:d690:f7db:86fb) Quit (Quit: "isth thish for the thong thang nexth thurshday?")
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[13:14] <AndreeeCZ> gordonDrogon, avrdude is version 6.3 on desktop, but 6.1 on RPi
[13:14] <AndreeeCZ> could that be the issue?
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[13:19] <gordonDrogon> hi.
[13:20] <gordonDrogon> it's possible...
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[13:20] <gordonDrogon> I'm currently using 5.11 on my desktop..
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[13:32] <brianx> kzisme: yes, compiling stresses everything and causes anything iffy to show up. power is almost always the issue, but sometimes an incompatible sd card will fail under stress when it appears to work fine normally. your 12 amp power supply may have plenty of amps but not be stable enough as load changes. doesn't matter if you paid $75 for it.
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[13:36] <brianx> and don't ignore the usb cable, that $20 china cable has wires so thin that the voltage drop under load is huge. shorter is better for usb, a thin wire 2 inches long has much less impact than one 2 ft long.
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[13:46] <drjam> woof
[13:47] <drjam> ok question about senior pi:
[13:47] <drjam> does ANY&ONE know how to power 2 iR leds for my little night light project
[13:47] <drjam> i call it: POS-CAm
[13:47] <drjam> possum cam, but make of it what you will lol
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[13:48] <drjam> and yes i have googled,, but i need ELI5 or a pretty simple picture
[13:48] <drjam> https://au.element14.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?msg=&catalogId=15001&langId=43&storeId=10184&krypto=rjtdNTo5%2B9tl7sTw5Uu3r3ZurzKV3NX4v6wnK05stGCLmq7OrRhHa6zQE6RjlWKl7lpw7aqQJhWshZX%2FjjRd%2BNKt2woPdaISGBerAeg2dvnqkGWGp50ouHR6rKFeVjwI1hyCP%2BtQx71FOisxhWOBQhsrwrpaYM%2B9ri2jr9v%2Fq9c%3D&ddkey=http%3ALogoff
[13:48] <drjam> VISHAY VSLY5850 Infrared Emitter, High Speed, 3 °, T-1 3/4 (5mm), 100 mA, 1.9 V, 10 ns, 10 ns
[13:48] * TheSin (~TheSin@d108-181-59-119.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[13:48] <drjam> and cows....i need to sacrifice cows apparently
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[13:49] <Sonny_Jim> What is your actual question?
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[13:50] <drjam> ummm
[13:51] <drjam> how to power the flippen things via the pi
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[13:51] <drjam> cause ive read why NOT to and wqhy i CAN do....but no real diagrams
[13:51] <drjam> it seems like its TOO EASY for anyone to have ever made a diagram of it yet
[13:52] <Sonny_Jim> What power supply do they ned?
[13:52] <Sonny_Jim> *need
[13:52] <drjam> i want to conenct 2 ir LEDS to the pi.....5v i assume.....but how to connect? solder the bastards right on? in a line?
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[13:52] <drjam> 100 mA, 1.9 V, diode
[13:53] <Sonny_Jim> Why did you assume 5V then tell me it's 1.9V?
[13:53] <drjam> part of me reads that and goes....yeah, 5v ---> led 1 ---->to led2 and done
[13:53] <drjam> exactly
[13:53] * Sonny_Jim does Jackie Chan meme
[13:53] <drjam> cause google research shows i can use 3 or 5v, BUT.....for some reason 5v is better
[13:53] <drjam> but so are unicorns if you dont know didly about electricity
[13:53] <Sonny_Jim> But, you just said right there they take 1.9V???
[13:53] <drjam> exactly
[13:54] * Sonny_Jim gives up
[13:54] <Sonny_Jim> If you can't phrase your question in a legible way....
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[13:54] <drjam> but, as i said.....sigh, other people who have MADE these things, said use the 5v but with diodes and resistros and capaciotorsd for safety or some such
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[13:54] <drjam> thats ok Sonny_Jim the question and issue confuses most people
[13:55] <Sonny_Jim> No, it's your demeanour
[13:55] <Sonny_Jim> I know perfectly well how to get 1.9V out of the Pi GPIO
[13:55] <drjam> yes, data pure, i know thats not how normal humans work, i appologize for not making it more human, one sec
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[13:57] <drjam> i have 2x 100 mA, 1.9 V infrared diode. i wish to power them via the pi, but safely. my research today shows others who have added 2 and more LEDS to THEIR pi's however no-one has actually said how. and no images. they said they used resistors. another bloke didnt seem to use them, but mentioned them, but no images.
[13:57] <gordonDrogon> drjam, you need to learn ohm law.
[13:57] <strixUK> drjam: in case you don't already know, diodes (and LEDs in particular) are not voltage devices, they're current-controlled devices. if the forward voltage drop is 1.9V, subtract that from your supply voltage (3.3 or 5V, doesn't matter which), divide that by the desired current and that's the value resistor you need to put in series
[13:58] <drjam> crthanks gordonDrogon i actually need to learn EVERYTHing!!! but thats one of the many places i need to learn.
[13:58] <gordonDrogon> or for the lazy just go here: http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz
[13:59] <gordonDrogon> drjam, also read the channel rules at some point too. https://goo.gl/h5qPhz
[13:59] <drjam> thanks strixUK ive read lines like that too...i know the words but as yet they dont mean anything inte4rnally. (i dislike that about my brain, i really do. sorry.)
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[13:59] <drjam> coool LED centre page
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[14:00] <strixUK> drjam: but you can't draw 100 mA from a GPIO pin. 16 mA max, and even then I'd say that's probably pushing it. so you'll need to use a transistor to supply the necessary current
[14:00] <gordonDrogon> to drive those off a 5v supply, you need a 33Ω, 1watt resistor for each LED.
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[14:01] <strixUK> drjam: we can't teach you elementary electronics here, but there are loads of tutorials online. ohm's law is an important start. go google something about that. then google 'npn emitter follower' in order to find out how to set up the components.
[14:01] <drjam> ok cool thanks. ill google all that too
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[14:03] <strixUK> drjam: gordonDrogon makes an important point: when choosing components, you need to make sure that current limiting resistors (and transisters, for that matter) can handle the power it will be required to dissipate. 3.3V is probably better in that respect.
[14:03] <gordonDrogon> I'd not personally use an emitter follower to drive LEDs though. If you want it easy on the Pi, use an IC - the uln2803 is easy.
[14:03] <drjam> heh yeah i was affraid my question would sound too....open? but i put my fear and self-whatever aside to ask. sadly just reading stuff doent stick in m y head and i need to ask "seemingly" random questions for "weird" dat6a to stick.
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[14:03] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: why not? it's simple and cheap
[14:03] <drjam> and then i need to get sapped a bunch of time in the flesh to really learn
[14:03] <drjam> zapped*
[14:04] <Sonny_Jim> 240v is non-lethal
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[14:04] <drjam> id still rather not feel its wrath lol
[14:04] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: 10V can be lethal if applied in the right way.
[14:04] <Sonny_Jim> quite
[14:04] <drjam> apparently you can cook your insides with mains power if things dont go well
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[14:04] <drjam> got some sparky mates
[14:05] <drjam> they are like voodoo kings ot me
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[14:05] <strixUK> drjam: more importantly, 240 V (even 110V) is enough to overcome skin resistance in a way that 10V is not. you can even get a belt off 50V IIRC.
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[14:05] <strixUK> in terms of danger, what matters most is current. that's really why mains is so dangerous.
[14:06] <strixUK> but the right voltage, which _can_ be small, applied to the heart or CNS can put you into fibrillation, and that has little to do with current
[14:06] <drjam> strixUK, i built my own offgrid solar 24v system, made of 6x 12v 200ah batteries. i have never been more paranoid and literally shaking with fear puttin g it together. i have also, (unbelievably to you all) forgottom how i did most of it
[14:07] <drjam> so please believef me when i mention the engine that runs my personalty is pretty....flawed lol
[14:08] <drjam> so yes, you guys nailed it above when you said i need to LEARN stuffs ;) if i knoew my stuff i would not be afraid.
[14:08] <strixUK> 24V is harmless enough, but shorts will look quite spectacular. tbh, fire is the greater hazard when dealing with such batteries.
[14:08] <drjam> oh man, the shorts gave me kittens
[14:08] <strixUK> if you're careful and methodical, there's no reason why a short should ever happen.
[14:08] <gordonDrogon> strixUK, usually too much current flowing into the base to make it effective.
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[14:09] <drjam> its the pain memories of that build AND lack of knowledge and worse: warped knowldge that makes me question everything about the piu's electronics.... hence my dumbass questions :(
[14:09] <gordonDrogon> and use a fuse...
[14:10] <drjam> i put a fuse in wrongly, blew up my first solar charge controller
[14:10] <drjam> lovely smoke it made
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[14:10] <drjam> freaked the crap out of me haha! set me back a few hours of courage
[14:11] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: even a common garden BC548A has an Hfe of ~100, so 2-5mA ought to be more than enough to drive a 100mA load
[14:12] <strixUK> (unless my recollection of analogue electronics has failed me which, to be fair, i studied > 20 years ago)
[14:13] <strixUK> drjam- get a breadboard and a handful of resistors and NPN transistors and a 3-5 volt power supply and experiment. Heck, a 3.something volt battery would be sufficient. not enough current there to do anything spectacular.
[14:13] <gordonDrogon> you're probably right, but stick a gpio pin into a darlington driver and the current needed is virtually none.. also my experience of Pi GPIO projects is that newbies can wire up a uln2308 type IC easier than a transistor..
[14:13] <strixUK> you can probably buy starter kits with all that stuff in it.
[14:14] <drjam> thanks strixUK i thikn i have most of that stuff....you can bet im taking stuff you guys mention and trying it out
[14:14] <drjam> i have 2 test/build pi's so i am ok with blowing at least one up
[14:14] <drjam> ive got 3 more sitting around the house as KODI players
[14:14] <polprog> drjam: not the way to go
[14:14] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: that might be the case. but then, i'm an EE (mostly digital, which is why my analogue is so rusty), so handling discretes and passives holds no trepidation for me.
[14:15] <polprog> gordonDrogon: i would use FETs
[14:15] <strixUK> and i've never taught a basic EE course.
[14:15] <drjam> polprog, yeah i know, but i know not much and worse, i mix up what i already know
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[14:15] <strixUK> polprog: FETs FTW, but when I was fooling around with this stuff as a kid, BJTs were much more readily available than FETs.
[14:15] <strixUK> and cheaper, too.
[14:16] <drjam> plus, i wont be spending 2 years learning sparky stuff.... i need to work my normal job haha. all i want to do is solder stuff, crimp stuff and turn stuff on and it works.
[14:16] <polprog> yeah, bjts are cheaper
[14:16] <polprog> dont forget a resistor on the base! even for darlington!
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[14:16] <strixUK> i love how the concept of MOSFETs was conceived of long before they could be made to any decent standard, but BJTs were easy to make but nobody understood why they worked until much later.
[14:17] <gordonDrogon> polprog, uln2308 FTW. No base transistors needed. I'm not suggesting this for nothing... easy stuff for newbies here.
[14:18] <polprog> yes. its a good solution
[14:18] <drjam> gordonDrogon, 2308 or 2803 ?
[14:18] <drjam> google seems have both
[14:18] <gordonDrogon> drjam, my dyslexia curses me. I'll check
[14:18] <polprog> uln2003 maybe
[14:18] <Sonny_Jim> 2803 I would have thought
[14:18] <drjam> et tu brutay
[14:18] <gordonDrogon> the 2803.
[14:19] <gordonDrogon> which is the 8-input version. the 2003 is (IIRC) the 7-input version.
[14:19] <drjam> whoot! google ahoy lads.....
[14:19] <strixUK> drjam: yeah, what polprog said. *never* drive anything directly from a GPIO pin. always use a series resistor, nothing less than 270Ω (max ~12 mA)
[14:19] <polprog> yes, its 2803. and a similar 2003 (7x driver)
[14:19] <gordonDrogon> however I don't know if you actually need to turn the LEDs on/off...
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[14:20] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: as a matter of principle, i would always use a series transistor even if a properly functioning darlington wouldn't need it (to protect against fault conditions)
[14:20] <drjam> strixUK, i wish that stuff was like, posted somewhere oficial
[14:20] <Sonny_Jim> Well, with ir wouldn't you want them being driven pretty much constantly?
[14:20] <gordonDrogon> if you need to turn the on/off then the 2x03 can drive up to 5 LEDs at 100mA each.
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[14:20] <gordonDrogon> strixUK, welcome to the Raspberry Pi land of newbie interfacers ...
[14:21] <drjam> they probably should be turned off at daylight....i want to learn about how to add a light sensor and then find some python to turn the IR's off...but that is SOOOO step no2 or no3
[14:21] <gordonDrogon> drjam, please test your thing from simple keyboard commands before writing any code.
[14:21] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: if an IR led is being connected to a GPIO, it's fair to assume something's going to be modulated.
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[14:21] <drjam> haha yeah, ive got some serious interface issues already, so this should be....interesting
[14:21] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: heh
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[14:22] <Sonny_Jim> The original question was 'how do I power these'
[14:22] <drjam> yup
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[14:22] <drjam> i want to start from ground, learn that....then get tricker as it goes
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[14:22] <Sonny_Jim> tbh, your best bet would be to whip up a forum post outlining what it is you actually want to do, what parts you think you might need and go from there
[14:22] <drjam> currentl i can use DHT11/22's and a LED with a i2c thingy on the back..... thats it
[14:22] <drjam> oh, and asoldering gun....very very badly
[14:22] <Sonny_Jim> Errr
[14:23] <Sonny_Jim> Electronics don't need a soldering gun, that's for plumbers
[14:23] * gordonDrogon presumes you mean soldering iron there ..
[14:23] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: i wish the Foundation were more forthcoming about schematics. it's absurd to make a device like a pi for teaching electronics etc without making available some minimal relevant information about what is on the pi side.
[14:23] <polprog> drjam: make sure you get a temp controlled iron
[14:23] <gordonDrogon> Sonny_Jim, no, that's a blowtorch..
[14:23] <gordonDrogon> strixUK, there are schematics for the v1.
[14:23] <drjam> ah cool, Sonny_Jim i thought that could be good, but ive seen where people get bacgged out for not searchign the forums first
[14:23] <polprog> gordonDrogon: you know those trafo monsters
[14:23] <polprog> ;)
[14:23] <gordonDrogon> strixUK, however it won't help newbies one little bit.
[14:24] <gordonDrogon> polprog, no. what's a 'trafo monster' ?
[14:24] <Sonny_Jim> drjam: IRC is good for instant conversation, but forums are better once things get a little more complicated
[14:24] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: i guess not
[14:24] <drjam> yeah, i do agreee....
[14:24] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: i want to know about the v3's wifi output, but it might be a struggle to get the information i want
[14:24] <drjam> i think ive been given a LOT of info here, and help....thank you all hey.....
[14:25] <polprog> gordonDrogon: this http://ebimex.pl/allegro/photo/LT7545_2.jpg
[14:25] <strixUK> (what passives, what loading inductors etc)
[14:25] <gordonDrogon> strixUK, *shrug* just use it.
[14:25] <drjam> im glad i had a cup of tea for this....and not a few wines/vodkas
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[14:25] <gordonDrogon> polprog, oh those. are they still being made? crikey.
[14:25] * SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:25] <polprog> yes, they are useful for where you need POWAH!
[14:25] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: i want to replace the internal antenna with an external one. and do it properly with an impedance matched coupling. if there are loading inductors, it won't be matched or resonant.
[14:25] <gordonDrogon> I have a good plumbing blowtorch. and a chefs blowtorch too. and a soldering iron...
[14:26] <gordonDrogon> strixUK, my suggestion: forget it. use a usb dongle.
[14:26] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: that would divide bandwidth with other USB devices. so would wired ethernet, for that matter.
[14:26] <drjam> polprog, i have a soldering iron with a dial on it....if i read the purty colours good....it goes from hot to hotter lol.
[14:26] <drjam> budget
[14:26] <drjam> :)
[14:26] * grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[14:27] <strixUK> it's got a built-in wifi, it's perfectly reasonable to want to use it with an external antenna. this needn't be any more difficult than the Foundation chooses to make it.
[14:27] <drjam> so far i have nfi what temps to use, i stick it at 3/4 and it melts the solder nicely, and sometimes it sticks to the wires
[14:27] * BlackVenom (~textual@cpc1-pres21-2-0-cust32.18-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:27] <strixUK> in fact, there's a u.FL pad on the PCB, from what I understand, so it's a fairly trivial modification to make - with the right knowledge.
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[14:27] <drjam> strixUK, could y ou simply solder on a wifi connector?
[14:27] <drjam> assuming l33t soldering skillz i guess
[14:28] <strixUK> drjam: if you don't know what ohm's law is, then the concept of impedance matching is another country for you.
[14:28] <strixUK> sorry, i didn't mean to be condescending
[14:28] <gordonDrogon> strixUK, well, there us a ufl connector on the v3 - just solder it up and remove the chip ...
[14:29] <drjam> yup, i mentioned electricity is voodoo to me. i get that its like water....but from there i over think it and it just scares me
[14:29] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:2032:ecbd:5ca5:3529) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:29] <polprog> drjam: you better get a good book on EE, it will clear things out :)
[14:29] <strixUK> but i can't easily explain why just soldering a piece of coax to where the antenna used to be is probably a bad idea.
[14:29] <drjam> haha no man, i like data before people any day
[14:29] <drjam> if you MEANT to sound condesending, it would have sounded and felt different to me
[14:29] <strixUK> :)
[14:30] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: that will probably _work_, but it won't be resonant or impedance matched at 2.5 gig if there's a loading inductor, which i assume there must be given the size of the stock antenna.
[14:30] <drjam> i meant solder a wire that leads to a connector, but i imaghine heat would be an immediate issue to the that area?
[14:30] <drjam> but i may be missing other iso, such as capacitance of the solder used? (i used that right?)
[14:30] <drjam> iso = info...frick my typing
[14:30] * brokaw (~textual@216-188-254-66.dyn.grandenetworks.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:31] <strixUK> worse, reflections generated could muddy the RF spectrum in the area and cause problems for others. ironically, this is probably why the foundation won't tell me anything because they don't want any liability coming back on them for anything i do with information they supply.
[14:31] <gordonDrogon> strixUK, you'll find that in these enlightened days that no-one really cares - unless you're putting it in some sort of sensitive place. Get a good magnifier and study the board - it will be trivial to work out, I imagine.
[14:31] <strixUK> which will make it more likely that i do the wrong thing :(
[14:31] <drjam> lol
[14:31] <drjam> ok concepts i understand clearly
[14:31] <plugwash> Antenna matching is overrated...
[14:31] <gordonDrogon> they would not have put pads there for a connector if they didn't expect it to work.
[14:31] <strixUK> drjam: solder has neglible capacitance. but there might be capacitance between a solder joint and something nearby.
[14:32] <Sonny_Jim> plugwash: Heresy!
[14:32] <plugwash> sure the antenna might be matched if you put the board in an empty room but the impedance of antennas depends heavilly on what is near them
[14:32] <drjam> copy that. i spose thats where robots and checmical thingies comem in
[14:32] <gordonDrogon> also judging by: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=raspberry+pi+3+external+antenna it seems that many people are doing it.
[14:33] <gordonDrogon> (without caring much)
[14:33] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: i will do, but the trick is that with such small SMD devices, they're frequently not marked. so i don't know what the various passives connected to the RF trace actually do/are. that could make all the difference
[14:33] <gordonDrogon> (which doesn't make it right, but that's what's happening)
[14:33] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: yes, i've googled, i've found at least a couple of HOWTOs on the subject, but none of them give any consideration to impedance matching.
[14:33] <strixUK> which they can't without this information.
[14:33] <gordonDrogon> you may find a reference design for the chip antennae and wi-fi chip somewhere...
[14:33] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:2032:ecbd:5ca5:3529) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:34] <gordonDrogon> I think the comment plugwash made is relevant ...
[14:34] <gordonDrogon> even if the result is somewhat sub-optimal.
[14:34] <strixUK> i looked for that. i found the datasheet for the MAC, which made reference to a reference schematic, but i wasn't able to find that. i guess i could try emailing Cypress (was Broadcom for this part) to ask for it.
[14:34] * hydrogen (~hydrogen@amarok/developer/hydrogen) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:34] <plugwash> IIRC the UFL connector is intended to be used for testing the antenna on the board. So If you really wanted to characterise the onboard antenna you could set the link to hook up the onboard antenna to the UFL connector
[14:34] <plugwash> then hook up a VNA
[14:35] <strixUK> plugwash: that's a fair point (nearby objects), but probably less true at higher frequencies
[14:35] <strixUK> or else FCC/WiFi certification on integrated antennas would be next to impossible
[14:35] <gordonDrogon> https://www.dorkbotpdx.org/blog/wramsdell/external_antenna_modifications_for_the_raspberry_pi_3 appears to be useful.
[14:36] <strixUK> that's the first one i found
[14:36] <gordonDrogon> it's got the best photos.
[14:37] <strixUK> if wifi signal is marginal where i want to put the pi, impedance matching might actually make a difference quite apart from being a noisy RF neighbour
[14:37] <gordonDrogon> I used a separate usb dongle when I had that issue.
[14:37] <strixUK> we will see. i still have some contacts at the CU CL, maybe somebody there can obtain the information i need.
[14:38] <strixUK> again, i don't want to divide what little USB bandwidth there is
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[14:38] <gordonDrogon> well, maybe you're the one to blaze that trail and publish the first fully functional, tested, matched antennae mod for it :)
[14:38] <gordonDrogon> my application isn't using usb, so it's not an issue for me.
[14:39] <gordonDrogon> I'd hard-wire it but that means running more wires to where that particular Pi is and I'm lazy right now (it would involve lifting carpet)
[14:40] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
[14:40] <strixUK> each SDR can potentially produce about 50 Mb/s. I'd like to put at least two of them on this pi. if I use a USB wifi MAC, the root port has already >200 Mb/s allocated. Then allow for how crap the USB standard is and how much bandwidth is wasted because of the way it polls attached devices, and the 480 Mb/s budget is looking a bit thin. Oh, and I might want to add a USB external disc, no idea what bandwidth that wil
[14:40] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: i certainly will -- if i can get the necessary information ;)
[14:41] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: wifi ftw, when practicable.
[14:41] <gordonDrogon> I've built community broadband networks based on wi-fi. copper/fibre ftw for me ...
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[14:45] <Sonny_Jim> SDR on the Pi is never really fun
[14:46] <Sonny_Jim> Well, simple stuff it's fine, but trying to run GRC is just an exercise in frustration
[14:46] <gordonDrogon> how ,uch do SDRs cost in relation to the Pi? Wondering if one Pi per SDR might be more effective if concerned over usb bandwidth.
[14:46] <Sonny_Jim> You can get cheap TV tuner ones, never really played around with the 'big boy' SDRs
[14:47] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: depends on how much you want to spend. The HackOne (10 MHz bandwidth) is ~US$320. RTL-based dongles are ~$25. cheap knock-offs are around $10.
[14:48] <strixUK> the RTL-based device (which I hope is better than average quality, it ought to be for its specs) was £26 shipped with 3 antennae.
[14:48] <Sonny_Jim> If you want an idea what a big boy SDR can do, there's plenty of web based ones you can play with
[14:48] <Sonny_Jim> http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
[14:48] <Sonny_Jim> That's a semi-famous one
[14:48] <strixUK> (which will be mostly rubbish. it will be interesting to compare with my purpose-made scantenna)
[14:48] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: is that the SDR# connection?
[14:49] <strixUK> no, n/m
[14:49] <Sonny_Jim> That's the University of Twentes one
[14:49] <Sonny_Jim> Been around for years
[14:49] <clever> Sonny_Jim: ah, its been de-java'd, it was still java the last time i visited it
[14:49] <Sonny_Jim> Yeah it seems to play nicely with Chrome/HTML5
[14:50] <strixUK> that's very cool
[14:50] <Sonny_Jim> Gotta check for UVB-76 every so often, that buzz helps me sleep easy ;)
[14:50] <strixUK> shame the rtl devices don't go low enough for shortwave
[14:51] <Sonny_Jim> Should be on 4625kHz, weird little remnant of the cold war
[14:51] <clever> Sonny_Jim: oh wow, i'm seeing channel names if i zoom in enough
[14:51] <strixUK> (without modification)
[14:51] <Sonny_Jim> strixUK: They do, kinda
[14:51] <Sonny_Jim> natch
[14:51] <Sonny_Jim> strixUK: Some guy over in #rtlsdr is putting together a documentary about SDRs in general, should be really interesting
[14:53] <cnnx> anyone used the sparqee cellular module with rpi?
[14:55] * alexk7110 (~Thunderbi@2a02:587:4814:d400:9e9:d6ed:8afd:928b) Quit (Quit: alexk7110)
[14:55] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: only the upper few MHz
[14:56] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: i've been in that channel for the last few days and it seems dead
[14:56] <Sonny_Jim> Maybe one of these days I'll bite the bullet and get a proper SDR, but where I am right now (Australia) there's not really a whole lot to listen to
[14:56] <Sonny_Jim> It comes in dribs and drabs, but they are all a bunch of cool guys
[14:56] <Sonny_Jim> patchvonbraun has built a radioastromony interferometer (spelling?) with a bunch of dongles, really cool
[14:57] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: idk if it's legal to listen to police frequencies, but that can be pretty interesting. when i lived in NZ (where it *is* legal), i once listened to the response to an armed bank raid.
[14:57] * Viper168_ is now known as Viper168
[14:57] <Sonny_Jim> strixUK: It's not
[14:57] <Sonny_Jim> UK wireless telegraphy act:
[14:57] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: *in new zealand*
[14:57] <Sonny_Jim> oh ;)
[14:58] <Sonny_Jim> In the UK, it's illegal to listen to _any_ radio transmission that doesn't specifically have you as the recipient
[14:58] <strixUK> it's not legal in the UK, no.
[14:58] <Sonny_Jim> But yeah, pretty hard to enforce passive receiving
[14:58] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: it's not _quite_ that clear cut.
[14:58] * nevodka (~nevodka@174-21-126-240.tukw.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[14:58] <gordonDrogon> I was under the impression that it was OK to listen as long as you didn't act on the information, however ...
[14:58] <Sonny_Jim> Seems pretty clear cut to me
[14:58] <Sonny_Jim> Section 28
[14:58] <gordonDrogon> so, don't act, then no-one knows you're listening in ...
[14:58] <strixUK> OfCom, for example, have said that listening to airband is generally illegal except when it isn't, but don't give a bright-line test for the difference.
[14:59] <Sonny_Jim> Sorry 48
[14:59] <strixUK> gordonDrogon: that's basically the law in NZ. you can listen, but you can't act or communicate what you hear.
[14:59] <Sonny_Jim> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/36/section/48
[14:59] <Sonny_Jim> Pretty hard to misenterpret that
[14:59] <strixUK> i'm referring to OfCom guidance. you'd expect them to have a reasonably good grasp of the law.
[14:59] <Sonny_Jim> Pfft
[15:00] <Sonny_Jim> Except when it comes to QRM and PLT ;)
[15:01] * qt-x (~Thunderbi@ Quit (Quit: qt-x)
[15:01] <cnnx> anyone using a cellular modem/shield for rpi?
[15:02] <shauno> that section appears to agree with gordonDrogon? I guess "intent to obtain information" is gonna be really debatable.
[15:02] <Sonny_Jim> That's the second part
[15:02] <Sonny_Jim> First part really says it all, if it's not for you, you shouldn't be listening
[15:02] <shauno> I'm looking at 1(a). if there's a part before that, the link's bad
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[15:03] <Sonny_Jim> Ah my mistake
[15:03] <Sonny_Jim> I confused intent for disclose
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[15:03] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: wrt §48, where it gets complicated is the exact interpretation of "intended to receive". example using ATC: construing §48 in the strictest possible way: messages between tower and a/c A heard by pilot flying a/c B is technically in violation, because B is not the intended recipient. but it's obviously absurd to suggest that B has no legitimate interest in hearing A's message because it could affect B's s
[15:04] <shauno> yeah, most the rest is about disclosure. but 1(a) has this catch "with intent to obtain information". so no intent no foul?
[15:04] <strixUK> someone on the ground, OTOH, has no legitimate interest. But, OfCom suggest that where frequencies have been published (eg at an air show), it is acceptable for persons on the ground to listen in because publication of the frequency would most likely be construed as permission.
[15:05] * Sonny_Jim nods
[15:05] <strixUK> so it's arguable whether well-known ATC frequencies constitute publication for the purposes of permission. OfCom would probably say not.
[15:05] <Sonny_Jim> I have zero faith in Ofcom
[15:05] <Sonny_Jim> They seem to consistently act in favour of whoever throws the most money at them
[15:05] <strixUK> don't blame you, but they're the ones likely to bring action if anybody does
[15:06] <shauno> most english law doesn't revolve around the letter anyway. you can usually get away with doing something that's technically wrong, if there's zero malintent
[15:06] <strixUK> which should come as no suprise to anybody
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[15:06] <Sonny_Jim> In fact I seem to remember Ofcom trying to shutdown internet radio streams
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[15:07] <oq> the streams where people rebroadcast radio stations that aren't theirs?
[15:08] <strixUK> shauno: erm, that's half true. 'mens rea' usually doesn't apply to civil offences of the mala prohibita type. eg drunk driving: you could be 1 µg/100 mL over the limit after a pub dinner and you are guilty of drunk driving, even if your intent was to be careful.
[15:08] <strixUK> IOW, many of these things carry strict liability.
[15:08] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: wouldn't surprise me because of the disclosure provisions of §48
[15:09] <strixUK> even if listening yourself is not strictly an offence, redistributing it might be
[15:09] <strixUK> oq: see liveatc.net
[15:10] <strixUK> as a practical matter, sensitive information occasionally is transmitted OTA on airband frequencies (phone numbers, passenger details) so the law probably takes the view that listening to airband is prohibited on those grounds alone.
[15:10] <strixUK> ADS-B, on the other hand...?
[15:10] <strixUK> Nah, like any QUANGO, OfCom would doubtless default to 'no'
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[15:11] <strixUK> even though ADS-B is not addressed to anybody in particular and is transmitted of a broadcast medium.
[15:11] <shauno> things like ads-b and AIS seem like they shouldn't be treated the same anyway. they're not actually intended for a specific recipient
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[15:12] <strixUK> precisely. but i wouldn't bet on OfCom taking that view.
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[15:12] <shauno> yeah. me neither. I'm thinking, the voice equivalent of a marine broadcast goes 'all stations', and you're not a station. AIS just uses terser verbage, but ofcom could probably argue it's the same
[15:13] <strixUK> interestingly, the way §48 is worded, you actually have to demodulate/decode the signal to be guilty of an offence
[15:13] <strixUK> shauno: define station :D
[15:13] <Sonny_Jim> I guess that's to protect repeaters or something?
[15:14] * Sonny_Jim shrugs
[15:14] <Sonny_Jim> UK law is weird
[15:14] <strixUK> so it might be that tuning your SDR to mobile bands is not an offence unless you demodulate it. that could be really useful/interesting for the purposes of measuring signal strength.
[15:14] <Sonny_Jim> Well
[15:14] <Sonny_Jim> Here's a thought, what about a TETRA detector mounted on a car dash?
[15:14] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: the system of common law is subtle and, sometimes, elegant. at other times, an ass.
[15:14] <Sonny_Jim> It doesn't demodulate, just detects when there's Police/Ambulance/Fire radio nearby
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[15:15] * Tw|tch (~Snapped@cpe-75-177-88-100.triad.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:15] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: in my lay reading of the act -- this act, anyway -- that might not be an offence in the UK. again, i wouldn't like to find out the hard way.
[15:15] <shauno> if I had to argue against that, I'd argue that you're trying to identifier a sender, which is right in the same "information as to the contents, sender or addressee"
[15:16] <Sonny_Jim> For example, this device:
[15:16] <Sonny_Jim> http://www.targetblueye.co.uk/
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[15:16] <shauno> I'm not saying I'd want to argue that, but .. english law is weird. if they know you're running against the spirit of the law, they'll find a way to make the letter fit
[15:16] * Sonny_Jim nods
[15:17] <strixUK> shauno: you can't identify the sender simply from the signal strength. you don't know, for example, whether it's police, fire, amublance or anybody else who uses that band.
[15:17] * Tw|tch (~Snapped@cpe-75-177-88-100.triad.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:17] <Sonny_Jim> I'm pretty sure if you got pulled over with one of those on the dash, they'd find something to pin on you
[15:17] <strixUK> shauno: certainly, that does happen
[15:18] * Vile` (~Vile@unaffiliated/vile/x-1886500) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:19] <strixUK> the case of _R. v Brown_ [1994] 1 AC 212 is a long (60 pages) but instructive read on how common law together with statutory law are construed in accordance with the spirit vs. the letter of the law and also public policy interests.
[15:19] <strixUK> i won't detail the case here, because it would gross you out. and i'd probably get /kb from the channel, whatever language i chose.
[15:19] <Sonny_Jim> lol
[15:19] <Sonny_Jim> Certainly veering offtopic
[15:19] <strixUK> just a mite
[15:20] <Sonny_Jim> Although a fun project would be a TETRA detector made out of a Pi
[15:20] <Sonny_Jim> There's yer tenuous link ;)
[15:20] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: it would be trivially easy with an RTL SDR
[15:21] <Sonny_Jim> Pretty sure you could knock one together for cheaper than the 799 GBP they want for a Blueeye
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[15:21] <strixUK> it surprised me to learn that tetra is actually UHF (various bands within the range 300-400 MHz, specifically) rather than microwave, which surprised me
[15:21] <strixUK> i thought tetra was actually a derivative of GSM
[15:22] <Sonny_Jim> Hmm
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[15:23] <strixUK> though strictly speaking, even 1900 MHz mobile qualifies as UHF
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[15:24] <strixUK> Sonny_Jim: definitely. rtl_sdr + pi + leds or speaker.. < £150 for sure.
[15:24] <strixUK> maybe < £100
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[15:25] <Sonny_Jim> Once I have a bit of free time I might give it a whirl
[15:26] <strixUK> i'd start with rtl_power [just a guess]
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[15:26] <Sonny_Jim> Yeah that was my thinking
[15:27] * strixUK is getting cranky because neither his pi nor his sdr has arrived yet.
[15:27] <Sonny_Jim> Just glue some software togther, hook up an LED strip to the GPIO
[15:27] <Sonny_Jim> Nothing exactly groundbreaking
[15:27] <strixUK> yep
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[15:33] <shauno> anyone tried the 'cw2 pi ups' ( http://piups.net ) ? curious if anyone's had good/bad experiences. it looks more suitable for what I want than the ups-pico (waaaay too many peripherals bundled in), but I'm slightly concerned I've never heard of it at all
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[15:48] <shanee> Hello. I've tried google hangouts on my Raspberry Pi 3 and sadly, it seems to have a really long delay. Has anyone else seen/fixed this?
[15:49] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:51] <Chillum> are you sure it is not just that almost nobody uses google hangouts? ;)
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[15:52] <Chillum> *ba dum tss*
[15:52] <Sonny_Jim> *crickets*
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[16:02] <brianx> you must be on hangouts Sonny_Jim
[16:02] <Sonny_Jim> Pfft
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[16:14] <Schrostfutz_> Hi, I am trying to crosscompile for the raspberry-pi and downloaded toolchains from here: github.com/raspberrypi/tools.git. Apparently there are different toolchains available, but the naming is inconsistent. Are there more differences than compiler-version/32/64bit?
[16:15] <gordonDrogon> do you really need to cross compile? The Pi was intended to be used for direct program development...
[16:16] <Schrostfutz_> gordonDrogon: Yes, I am using a large framework that I regularly need to recompile and deploy on multiple RPis. This takes a lot of time when done on the raspberries themselves
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[16:18] <IT_Sean> That's what's known in programming circles as "goof off time"
[16:19] <IT_Sean> your boss can't yell at you for slacking off because "My code is compiling."
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[16:21] <shauno> yes. compile-time is a feature. if it wasn't, you wouldn't be rebuilding 'a large framework' for non-large changes
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[16:24] <drjam> strixUK, gordonDrogon polprog and Sonny_Jim an update about the ir LEDS: it works! cep the resistor was getting very very warm after 2 mins. connected in series to 5v in pi, used 15ohm (or 15R as i know know it can be called) and bam! ill try 3.3 v next
[16:25] * agontarek (~agontarek@chippewa-nat.cray.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:25] * drjam is a happy camper
[16:26] <polprog> oh. if its getting hot get a higher power resistor. or connect a couple bigger in paralell
[16:26] <plugwash> what kind of LED is this? 15R seems very low to me.
[16:26] <polprog> but overall.. good job. that's how i started
[16:26] <polprog> yes, 15R is quite low
[16:26] <polprog> probably hipower led
[16:27] <drjam> yeah, saw that 18R was also mentioned so ill try that next too
[16:27] <polprog> better check how much current does the led need and calculate the value and power
[16:27] <drjam> plugwash, its 2 ISHAY VSLY5850 Infrared Emitters, 100mA 1.9v
[16:27] <Sonny_Jim> Oh and as an aside, you know you can use a mobile phone camera to see if an IR led is lit?
[16:28] * Blaz3x86 (c7e0100c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[16:28] <polprog> ^^
[16:28] <drjam> thanks polprog this is how i learn: the hard way lol
[16:28] <kerio> yeah if your camera is crappy
[16:28] <kerio> :^)
[16:28] <Sonny_Jim> Well, no
[16:28] <drjam> you can? like, just turn on my phone's camera and look at the image Sonny_Jim ?
[16:28] * Sonny_Jim nods
[16:28] <kerio> (or if you removed the IR filter that's sometimes easy to access)
[16:28] <polprog> kerio: Sonny_Jim you can use older bw cameras as ir cameras
[16:29] <Sonny_Jim> kerio: I've not seen a mobile phone that had an IR filter fitted
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[16:29] <kerio> the iphone since the iphone... 4?
[16:29] <strixUK> drjam: 15Ω will give you ~200mA, which might be overdriving your LEDs if they're not rated for that current
[16:29] <Sonny_Jim> Ah I see
[16:29] <Sonny_Jim> If it's not iPhone, it's crappy
[16:29] * Sonny_Jim forgot
[16:29] <drjam> man, this possum is gunna be cam-corded so HARD when this is running!!
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[16:30] <kerio> no, if a camera shows things that aren't visible, it's not a good camera for the purpose of taking pictures of the visible spectrum?
[16:30] <strixUK> also, you should not be drawing that sort of current directly from a GPIO (just in case you were, which i doubt)
[16:30] <drjam> strixUK, damn, they are 100ma rated, 200ma peak
[16:30] <drjam> erm, i was, but i dont know any way to do otherwise, currently
[16:30] * drjam makes a lame power joke
[16:30] <kerio> maybe i'm just a wavelengthist
[16:30] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:31] <Sonny_Jim> That's one word for it
[16:31] <kerio> too insensitive
[16:31] <kerio> (see what i did there)
[16:31] <drjam> lol
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[16:31] <Sonny_Jim> drjam: You can power it from the power pins on the GPIO header
[16:31] <Sonny_Jim> Just not from the GPIO pins (if that makes sense)
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[16:31] <strixUK> drjam: you'll fry the pi if you do that for long
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[16:32] <strixUK> (if you haven't already, although possibly the pi's output drivers have current limiting, idk)
[16:32] <drjam> Sonny_Jim, thats what i have done....direclty connect one of the positive 5v from the raspberry to the positive of the LED, and serial connected them around to a ground pin
[16:32] <shauno> I don't believe there's any limiting at all. basically, the only protection is being cheap enough to replace
[16:32] <drjam> ohhhhh now im confused, i call ALL the pins on the pi "gpio pins"
[16:33] <kerio> don't use the 3V3 pin tho
[16:33] <drjam> unless you mean connect to ANY pin on the pi and it ALSO can draw 5v from any pin?
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[16:34] <shauno> no, you can draw 5v from the pins that supply 5v. different pins have different functions, gpio is only one of those functions
[16:34] <drjam> kerio why not guv? is it likely to burn out?
[16:34] <drjam> ah ok, thanks
[16:34] <drjam> phew
[16:34] <kerio> drjam: there's no protection circuit on that
[16:35] <kerio> so it's better to use the 5V pin
[16:35] <drjam> right, my process so far has been to ONLY conect power stuff to 3.3v or 5v, and only DATA get connected to everything else
[16:35] <drjam> oh
[16:35] <drjam> haha right so.....boom-booms are possible. thank you!
[16:35] <kerio> (it's gonna be fine if it's something light)
[16:35] <strixUK> drjam: if you've connected the led and resistor to a true GPIO pin (ie not a power rail) then the max you'll get out is 3v3, probably closer to 3v1 or 3v2, in which case a 15Ω resistor will give you ~90 mA which is closer to what you were after.
[16:36] <shauno> boom is a lot more difficult than it sounds. but a funny medicinal smell is easy
[16:36] <BurtyB> ~90mA sounds like death to the Pi
[16:37] <drjam> oh good info thanks. and a little scary ha!
[16:37] <drjam> ok then, so it sounds like im not doing toooo bad with sticking to only power rails
[16:38] <drjam> and 5v has some sort of protection while 3.3 v doest
[16:38] <drjam> i donjt recall seeing that anywhere else (ive read a lot of stuff)
[16:38] <drjam> so this is good to know!
[16:38] <drjam> i am googling right now "how to tell the difference between 1/4w 1/2w and 1w resistors
[16:39] <kerio> drjam: well, 5V gets converted to 3V3
[16:39] <drjam> cause i do not know, and the color scheme seems to not give a lefticle about wattage
[16:39] <drjam> and i may have used a 1/4w 15R and perhaps a 1w 15R would not get hot?
[16:40] * mschorm (~mschorm@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:41] <drjam> medicinal smell, i shall try to avoid that result, shauno :-)
[16:41] <polprog> drjam: the 5v rail is directly connected to the power supply and 3v3 is handled via ldo, i think its 200mA max
[16:41] <polprog> drjam: i really advise you to read some tutorial on leds and resistors
[16:41] <polprog> :)
[16:42] <drjam> thanks kerio and polprog , haha yeah man, im sickj of reading now, it goes in and gets blurry so i plug wires in ands see what happens. i remember pain better than bordom
[16:42] <drjam> probably not a good trait to have if i wanted to be anuclear physicist
[16:42] <drjam> unless i was madam currarie
[16:42] <kerio> poor raspi ;-;
[16:43] <polprog> poor pi
[16:43] <shauno> "if it first you don't succeed" generally rules you out of skydiving too
[16:43] <polprog> youll break it soon
[16:43] <drjam> heehee, i have equal parts paranoi kerio ....thus far it has resulted in me loosing a total of....zero pi's
[16:43] <drjam> lol shauno
[16:44] <drjam> ive lost a few SD cards howerver
[16:44] <drjam> ;)
[16:44] <drjam> ah this is good info: 1/2W means- The maximum power dissapation should not exceed 500mW
[16:45] <polprog> yes
[16:45] <drjam> according to the freaking good LED calulator someone posted to me on here before, my series of 2 LEDS should only push out 380mW
[16:45] <drjam> so i need to find a 1/2w resistor....when the damn things are not marked
[16:46] * methuzla (~methuzla@dsl254-017-117.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:46] <drjam> sigh, how do you people do this stuff without markings!
[16:46] <polprog> you can connect two 1/4 w 30ohm in paralell to get a 1/2 w 15 ohm one
[16:46] <polprog> and generally small wattagea you distinguish by size
[16:46] <strixUK> BurtyB: yeah, 90mA is way too much for a GPIO pin. but we did warn drjam to use a BJT or FET or darlington or some other driver
[16:46] <Sonny_Jim> drjam: http://www.digikey.com/en/resources/conversion-calculators/conversion-calculator-resistor-color-code-4-band
[16:47] <polprog> strixUK: he will learn sooner or later (or not :|)
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[16:47] <drjam> strixUK, yup, you scared me with the GPIO stuff but ive learned in the last 120 seconds i dont used GPIO if i have the red wire connected ONLY to 3.3v or 5v pins
[16:48] <drjam> all other pins (apprently called GPIO's) i only stick the DATA cables in
[16:48] <drjam> so...im safe!
[16:48] <polprog> not really
[16:48] <drjam> oh good
[16:48] <drjam> this is why electricty is weird...it like changes the goal posts al lthe time
[16:49] * Philip_J_Fry (~Philip_J_@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:49] <drjam> hey Sonny_Jim i found that one before! i used it to see what all the resistors i had in a box where
[16:49] <drjam> thank you!
[16:49] <Sonny_Jim> TBH I just use a multimeter
[16:49] <drjam> need a magnifying glass tho haha
[16:49] <drjam> really?
[16:49] <Sonny_Jim> Too lame to remember resistor colour codes
[16:50] <drjam> lame? frick me, imlooking at the codes thinking it might be easier to learn mandarin or something
[16:50] <strixUK> drjam: the relevant power for the risistor is the *voltage drop* across the *resistor* squared, divided by the resistance.
[16:51] <drjam> so like, positive side starts at 5v and the other end it comes out at 4v
[16:51] <strixUK> in this situation, for a 3v3 rail and a 1.9 V forward drop LED (LEDs more or less have a fixed voltage drop), that means the voltage drop across the resistor is 1.4V.
[16:51] <drjam> 1v drop? then do the fancy math on it?
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[16:51] <drjam> ah ok i have a small qyestion here
[16:51] <strixUK> for 15Ω, that's 130 mW so a quarter-watt resistor ought to be fine.
[16:52] <drjam> 1.9v drop means what?
[16:52] <drjam> i first thought it was justlike, the power rating, like a 12v battery, or a 9v battery
[16:52] <drjam> or a 1.9v LED
[16:52] <drjam> :-)
[16:53] <strixUK> drjam: goal posts stay the same if you understand the maths of it. again, learn ohm's law. learn that P = V × I. Hence P = V^2 / R (or I, as it turns out).
[16:53] <drjam> heh
[16:54] <drjam> i need to learn more than the math, i need to learn the language THEN the maths
[16:54] <drjam> its that point i say frick it....this word = this much heat, "that" word means that much heat
[16:54] <drjam> then i get what the language mean, then the math will make sense
[16:54] <strixUK> drjam: all diodes have what's called a forward voltage drop. it's nearly, but not quite, constant depending on the wavelength of light emitted. if less than Vf is applied, the LED won't do anything. after accounting for Vf, all you have to do is select a resistor that limits the current to the right level.
[16:55] <drjam> if i translate that: minimum working voltage?
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[16:59] <drjam> going with yes on that lol
[16:59] <drjam> ok thanks agian, ive got some more reading, and translating to do
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[17:07] <brianx> polprog: the ldo on 3.3v was only the 256mb pi b. all others use a switching power supply to convert 5v to 3.3v.
[17:09] * tristero (~al.f.zero@unaffiliated/transfinite) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:10] <polprog> brianx: thanks for correcting me :) i dont keep track of those
[17:10] <brianx> polprog: np. just thought you would want to know it changed.
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[17:21] <drjam> time to sleep. nearly 1:30am here....thanks for your brians and patience humans. i look forward to learning and completing!
[17:22] * drjam scarpers
[17:22] * drjam (~drjam@c122-108-230-17.ipswc3.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:22] <polprog> that guy...
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[17:25] <kerio> brianx: but there's no protection between the 3V3 rail used by the cpu and the 3V3 header pin, right?
[17:26] * talmai (~T@c-76-24-28-74.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: mining)
[17:27] <plugwash> right
[17:27] <brianx> kerio: i think you're correct. I've not been through it completely and iirc, there are no schematics available to examine.
[17:27] <polprog> generally the best way is to add your own 3v3 ldo from the 5v pin if you are making something serious
[17:27] <polprog> that's my opinion
[17:27] <brianx> ^^^ or buck converter if it's a lot of power.
[17:28] <polprog> yes
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[17:38] <YuGiOhJCJ> wow the "bcm2710-rpi-3-b.dtb" file in the "/boot" directory is really important, I have just noticed that if I remove it, I can't boot anymore (stuck on the rainbow screen). I understand that it is part of the kernel but I remind that before, I was able to boot my Pi without this file. Is it possible that this file was not required with an previous Linux kernel version?
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[17:42] <brianx> YuGiOhJCJ: pretty sure it's always been required for the 3, the b and b+ didn't require anything like it.
[17:42] <YuGiOhJCJ> oh ok so maybe it was on my old 1B model
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[17:44] <brianx> iirc, 2b didn't start out needing a .dtb file but later builds added it.
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[17:45] <polprog> is that some kind of a microcode?
[17:46] <methuzla> device tree blob
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[18:09] <Sonny_Jim> Always wondered what dtb was for
[18:09] <Sonny_Jim> Always known it as Desk Top Box
[18:11] * sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-yxlriesrklxhevnk) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:12] <polprog> this is a great guide for networing newbies here: https://hackaday.com/2017/04/18/networking-pin-the-tail-on-the-headless-raspberry-pi/
[18:13] * cyclux (~cyclux@x4d003c8c.dyn.telefonica.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:13] <Sonny_Jim> Note to self: Asus RT-N14U routers are all kinds of fail
[18:13] <kerio> jesus christ
[18:14] <kerio> polprog: ssh pi@raspberrypi.local
[18:14] <Sonny_Jim> heh
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[18:15] <polprog> kerio: cool, what if your router doesn't support that?
[18:15] <polprog> or any other cause making the raspberrypi.local not resolvable
[18:16] <BurtyB> your router doesn't need to
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[18:17] <kerio> if for some insane reason the router filters out zeroconf broadcast packets, just use a cable?
[18:17] <kerio> like, between your computer and the pi
[18:17] <polprog> mate i know how to use a crossover cable and i did that many times
[18:18] <polprog> the article just points one of the ways to get to a pi
[18:18] <BurtyB> kerio, if you're on the same network segment your router won't be able to filter them out
[18:18] <kerio> BurtyB: huh
[18:19] <Sonny_Jim> polprog: Crossover cables aren't needed any more
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[18:19] <kerio> surely, the router could just block all UDP for instance
[18:19] <Sonny_Jim> Haven't been for about 10 years
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[18:19] <Sonny_Jim> Most NICs will auto-negotiate nowadays
[18:19] <kerio> note that i'm thinking of the usual situation in a home or a small office
[18:20] <kerio> where you don't have a dedicated unmanaged switch
[18:20] * Sonny_Jim is currently trying to figure out a way to compile a binary for a MediaTek MT7620 SoC on a raspberry pi
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[18:20] <BurtyB> kerio, it could but I don't remember seeing a home router that doesn't just have a switch on the internal side which wouldn't do anything with broadcasts
[18:20] <polprog> does linux supprt that .local resolve? i don't know
[18:20] <BurtyB> polprog, if it didn't how would it work on the Pi ? ;)
[18:21] <BurtyB> (it uses avahi btw)
[18:21] <kerio> most distros nowadays preinstall avahi
[18:21] <polprog> well, TIL
[18:21] <Sonny_Jim> ')
[18:22] <polprog> that's odd, i just tried vaio.local on vaio and it cant find it :o
[18:22] <polprog> whatever
[18:22] <kerio> is the hostname "vaio"?
[18:22] <polprog> yes
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[18:24] <brianx> kerio: raspberrypi.local is all sorts of fail. apt remove avahi-daemon will get rid of that crap.
[18:25] <polprog> the real fun starts where there are 2 pis on the same net :P
[18:25] <brianx> kerio: most routers resolve your hostname based on what it sends with the dhcp request.
[18:25] <kerio> what
[18:25] <brianx> ^^^ polprog is right, makes sure to set hostname on each pi.
[18:26] <kerio> well, if you don't give each individual pi a different, pastry-based hostname you're literally hitler
[18:27] <brianx> whew, i'm safe. all mine are pi and some number.
[18:27] <kerio> that is BORING >:(
[18:27] <brianx> but it is pastry based so i'm not hitler.
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[18:28] <polprog> i try to name my computers after game computers but so far i know only glados
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[18:29] <polprog> i thought about nritish cities
[18:30] <kerio> call it AM
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[18:30] <brianx> Claptrap is a computer in borderlands.
[18:30] <polprog> ah, that cute robot
[18:30] <polprog> :)
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[18:35] <brianx> of course portal has Atlas too.
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[19:11] <polprog> hehe, i can see the ammeter needle twitch when i run a command :D
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[19:19] <Ninjay> noob here, if I connect to a WiFi in GUI will it auto connect if I boot to CLI?
[19:19] <shiftplusone> Ninjay: yes
[19:19] <Ninjay> thought so, thanks for confirming
[19:19] <shiftplusone> np
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[19:26] <ghoti> So... I've got a Pluggable USB hub that supports PPPS. I'm able to power off and on USB flash drives using https://github.com/mvp/uhubctl, but when I plug in a Pi, switching off the port doesn't switch off the power.
[19:26] <ghoti> It's as if the Pi doesn't "register" somehow with the hub, so it doesn't know there's any device to turn off. I'm not even sure how to debug this.
[19:26] <ghoti> Any hints?
[19:26] <ghoti> I'd love to use this thing as a "smart" power bar for a small collection of Pis.
[19:27] <gordonDrogon> are you powering the Pi from the hub?
[19:28] * Vonter (~Vonter@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:28] <gordonDrogon> if-so, are you aware the Pi's �USB socket is power only - there is no data ...
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[20:13] <Psi-Jack> brianx: I just tested out a very simple relay setup for the garage door with just the appropriate capacitors, and... it pretty much works fantastically.
[20:13] <brianx> :-)
[20:14] <Psi-Jack> For the garage door itself, have to turn it on 1s, off 1s, cause if you leave it on, it just simply keeps opening, stopping, closing, stopping, etc.
[20:14] * Armand (~armand@2a01:9cc0:40:6:69c8:d690:f7db:86fb) Quit (Quit: "isth thish for the thong thang nexth thurshday?")
[20:14] <brianx> using relays is a bit inelegant but is easy.
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[20:15] <brianx> yeah, it should respond just like the button. hold the door button and it probably opens and closes the same way. for each one, you just need the relay on for around 1 second.
[20:15] <Psi-Jack> Yes. True. I wouldn't mind a more elegant solution to the same means, provided I can keep that high current away from the ESP8266. :)
[20:15] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@2001:985:5982:1:c165:2b6d:12de:6188) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:16] <brianx> fortunately the relay is mostly away electronically, there's a regulator between them.
[20:16] * Chinesium (~Chinesium@host86-175-103-149.range86-175.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (ETD.sys))
[20:16] <brianx> and of course the opto on that relay board is between them.
[20:17] <Psi-Jack> Ahhh. Yeah. Makes sense
[20:18] <brianx> i wouldn't count on the wifi working while the relay is opening or closing, but while open or closed it should be fine.
[20:18] <Psi-Jack> I'm going to try for now just to use the relay with a step down buck to power the ESP8266
[20:18] <brianx> the open and close both take only miliseconds.
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[20:19] <brianx> i take it that you're currently opening and closing the relays with a jumper?
[20:19] <Psi-Jack> I was just using the manual push buttons to test it
[20:19] <Psi-Jack> But yes with the jumper they turn on them off.
[20:20] <Psi-Jack> I haven't hooked up the esp to it yet.
[20:22] <Psi-Jack> When I do I have those JST plugs I can plug into. Hehe
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[20:22] <brianx> i guess if you have to. the screw terminals seem just as easy.
[20:23] <brianx> will the relays turn on and off with a 3.3V control signal? or does the control have to be 5V?
[20:23] <Psi-Jack> That... I'm not sure about yet
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[20:24] <brianx> sounds like your next test.
[20:26] <brianx> hopefully there is already an appropriate resistor on the control line.
[20:26] <Psi-Jack> After I get the code in yes
[20:26] <Psi-Jack> Control line?
[20:26] * daey (~Flutterba@unaffiliated/day) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:26] <Psi-Jack> Oh to keep it low?
[20:26] <daey> do i still need to install the bluez kernelmodule or is it included these days?
[20:27] <daey> for ble communication
[20:28] <Psi-Jack> Rather, what do you mean, brianx?
[20:29] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@2001:985:5982:1:7143:a798:3c92:3494) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:29] <brianx> Psi-Jack: the wire from the gpio on the esp has to go to a port on the relay board that turns it on and off. that's the control line.
[20:30] * cryptic (~cryptic@67-8-35-31.res.bhn.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:30] <brianx> there is an opto on there and hopefully a current limiting resistor already there.
[20:30] <brianx> check and make sure there is a resistor. if not, you need to choose one that will keep the current under the limit of the esp's gpio port.
[20:31] <brianx> iirc, that current is very low, just a few mA.
[20:33] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:34] <Psi-Jack> Gotcha
[20:35] <Psi-Jack> Heh, soon I'll need to start actually getting some dremel cutting discs. Cutting up circuit boards. :)
[20:37] <methuzla> daey: dunno, but can check with: lsmod | grep bluetooth
[20:37] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm, and I may need to remove the LED I currently have, an RGB one, and replace it with a simple power LED, cause too many digital pins are taken up already.
[20:38] * GyroW (~GyroW@d54C29AD0.access.telenet.be) Quit (Quit: Someone ate my pie)
[20:39] <brianx> you didn't use an esp-12?
[20:39] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm... Well, the ESP8266 I'm using right now, the Adafruit HUZZAH, does have on the metal shielding ESP-12/
[20:40] <Psi-Jack> Also ESP8266MOD
[20:40] <Psi-Jack> So, honestly, I don't even know /what/ the difference is. :)
[20:40] <brianx> so there are a pretty good number of pins. so far you should have used 3 for the relay and 2 for the door up or door down sensors.
[20:41] <brianx> since this lives hidden on top of or in the motor box of the opener, there should be no need for status LEDs.
[20:41] <Psi-Jack> 3 for the RGB LED, 1 for the door (may move to A0, but may not), 1 for the PIR, and I still need a light sensor, which also likely needs the A0.
[20:42] <Psi-Jack> Because the garage motor's lights automatically turn themselves off.
[20:42] * smdeep (~smdeep@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:44] <Psi-Jack> And... Of course. I still need good lengths of wire to actually run the door sensor. heh
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[20:44] <brianx> why is there a pir? you want to know if people are in there to keep the light on?
[20:45] <Psi-Jack> Yep.
[20:45] <Psi-Jack> The light turns on when the safety sensor is tripped, but that's it.
[20:45] <Psi-Jack> Oh, and opening the garage door.
[20:45] <brianx> and pushing the light button. i assume it turns off after a delay even if you turned it on with the button.
[20:46] * SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:46] <Psi-Jack> Correct.
[20:46] <daey> methuzla: it seems to work out of the box
[20:46] <Psi-Jack> The PIR is also a sensor for when the alarm state is activated, it will track movement and initiate the alarms.
[20:46] <brianx> btw, the landlord at the place we're moving to temporarily just bought a chamberlain opener. looks like it's a one button though.
[20:46] * cryptic (~cryptic@67-8-35-31.res.bhn.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:47] <Psi-Jack> brianx: You could hook up a 3-button or even a MyQ-enabled one easily.
[20:47] <brianx> you think the controller board is smart even when they have a 1 button included?
[20:47] <Psi-Jack> I /thought/ about getting a MyQ control panel, but the MyQ system is so closed and propriatery I didn't even want to mess with the garbage.
[20:47] <Psi-Jack> brianx: I /know/ it is.
[20:47] <Psi-Jack> Anything made after 1994 is. :)
[20:48] <brianx> ok, so i know how to do this.
[20:48] <Psi-Jack> hehe
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[20:48] <brianx> not sure i have much use for it though.
[20:48] <brianx> it would be nice to get door status over the net i guess, but the one button is enough for that.
[20:49] * GyroW (~GyroW@d54C29AD0.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:49] <Psi-Jack> Button + Sensor, yes.
[20:49] <brianx> i won't actually see the opener until after the first.
[20:49] <brianx> the sensor is built into the door opener. all i have to do is tap into that.
[20:50] <Psi-Jack> Heh, if you do that, I want to know how you do!
[20:50] <brianx> ok. i'll let you know. probably won't be soon.
[20:50] <brianx> rehab work on the houses i own is my priority.
[20:52] * Psi-Jack tilts hsi head. "Houses you own, landlord, rental?" You own, multiple houses? hehe
[20:52] * qdk (~qdk@87-63-182-234-static.dk.customer.tdc.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:53] <brianx> i own two, one i'm selling, one i'm in the process of repairing after a tenant trashed it. i live in the one i'm selling and will be renting for a bit in another town 300 miles away.
[20:54] <Psi-Jack> Gotcha. Makes sense.
[20:54] <Psi-Jack> Annnd yeah, sorry to hear about previous bad tenant.
[20:55] <brianx> the cost of real estate commission is more than the difference between renting and buying so renting it is.
[20:55] <Psi-Jack> Wow, 300 miles, though. I'm guessing y ou won't be living at that one. :)
[20:56] <brianx> i'm going to live 300 miles from here. the rental is 15 miles from here so too far from where wifey works.
[20:56] <brianx> the rental i own is 15 miles.
[20:57] <Psi-Jack> Ahhh
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[20:58] <Psi-Jack> You would /THINK/ Home Depot, a hardware store, would at least carry garage door wire, for all the garage door parts and products they have.. But do they even carry the wire? Nope...
[20:58] <brianx> why would they? it comes in the box.
[20:58] <Psi-Jack> heh
[20:58] <brianx> get doorbell wire instead.
[20:59] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm, yep. They do have that at least.
[20:59] <Psi-Jack> 100ft 20/2 for $11. But not IN the store.
[21:00] <brianx> odd, never had trouble with doorbell wire not being in stock in store.
[21:00] <Psi-Jack> Heh
[21:00] <Psi-Jack> Well, in my city, no doorbell wire in the store.
[21:00] * jaziz (~jaziz@unaffiliated/jaziz) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:01] <Psi-Jack> I could, however, order it and pick it up in 8 days....
[21:02] <Psi-Jack> Or I could get it in 2 days on Amazon.
[21:02] <brianx> yeah
[21:02] <Psi-Jack> heh
[21:03] <brianx> why do you need more wire? this whole project should live in or on top of the motor unit.
[21:03] <Psi-Jack> The door sensor. :)
[21:03] <Psi-Jack> Possibly the PIR placement as well.
[21:03] * mihon (~mihon@c83-254-164-67.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:05] <Psi-Jack> And I still have 2 more doors to put sensors on as well. heh
[21:05] <Psi-Jack> The back door to the garage, and the entry door from the garage into the house.
[21:06] <Psi-Jack> Though, the entry door may be monitored by another ESP.
[21:06] <brianx> i don't know which way the chamberlain openers work but if it's chain drive you could easily put magnets on the drive chain and detect them with reed switches.
[21:06] <Torgeir> Can the ARM Auto scaling be turned off and set to run at 1200 mhz all the time?
[21:06] <brianx> Torgeir: yes
[21:06] <Torgeir> brianx: is that turbo mode?
[21:06] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Yeah, my Liftmaster has a rubber "chain"...
[21:06] <Psi-Jack> Belt drive.
[21:06] <brianx> Torgeir: it's the performance mode
[21:07] <brianx> Psi-Jack: so same thing, belt and chain can each have a magnet attached and sensed.
[21:07] <Torgeir> brianx: ok. Defined in the config.txt right?
[21:07] <brianx> Torgeir: i'm not familiar with the config.txt setting for it.
[21:07] <Psi-Jack> brianx: Hmmm... Maybe. Seems a little unstable.
[21:08] <Torgeir> brianx: okay
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[21:09] <brianx> Psi-Jack: mine is over 20 years old and the microswitch method (very similar but there are tabs that reach off the chain and push switches) has always worked.
[21:09] <brianx> Psi-Jack: the microswitches and tabs on the chain are what the door itself uses to detect open or close.
[21:10] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, I have not seen any kind of switches or sensors on my garage motor.
[21:10] * fedalto (~fedalto@unaffiliated/fedalto) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:12] <brianx> they're there. it can't work without them. there are several ways to do it though.
[21:12] * sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-cgkftfdktrbulvtb) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:12] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. This shows me something.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mU9hF9OHms
[21:13] <brianx> that's exactly how my mother's opener works.
[21:13] <ali1234> you can do it by sensing motor current
[21:14] <ali1234> this can also double as and automatic cut off if the door is jammed on something
[21:14] <brianx> ali1234: the current sense is used to detect a stuck or blocked door.
[21:14] * Mune (~rol@abo-116-185-68.mtp.modulonet.fr) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:15] * suck (uid224872@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vfuukwbzfpbmshbr) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:15] <brianx> back in the 1970s, it was common for doors to use current to detect the stop at full open or full close but it was made illegal to use that because kids were getting stuck.
[21:15] <ams__> I'm having the issue described here: http://yup-the-website-domain-is.mindginative.com/post/raspberrypi-ssh-connection-reset/. Any theories on what might cause it to happen? SSH worked for a bit then (the next morning) stopped.
[21:18] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@AMontsouris-655-1-14-151.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:24] <Torgeir> In my raspi-config menu i have a section called Overclocking, but it says my Pi cannot be overclocked. Why?
[21:24] * cybrian (~b@ibeep.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:24] <polprog> which version of pi you have
[21:24] <polprog> ?
[21:25] * blow_ (uid224874@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-suxbipoibcrwopwg) Quit (K-Lined)
[21:25] <Torgeir> polprog: 3 B
[21:25] <polprog> i'm not sure if that can be OC'd
[21:26] <Psi-Jack> Why does everyone with an RPi3 seem to be asking about overclocking?
[21:26] <Psi-Jack> That seems to be the number one question here lately.
[21:28] <Torgeir> Psi-Jack: because its intresting :)
[21:28] * Rickta59 (~Rickta59@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:29] * sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-lrqgfgnkfyzeiizw) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:29] <shauno> I'm actually convinced overclocking is one of the least interesting things you can do with a pi
[21:29] * Frodox (~CLDX@ has joined #raspberrypi
[21:30] <mfa298> considering the Pi3 already has heat issues, overclocking seems like a pointless exercise unless you've already gone to extremes to get full performance out of it before any overclock
[21:30] <Psi-Jack> brianx: How much current would you guess runs through those limit switch terminals? heh
[21:31] <brianx> my guess is a couple mA
[21:31] <brianx> a pullup through the switch to the pic processor's gpio.
[21:31] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:32] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Well, I will test that out tonight I think. :)
[21:32] <Psi-Jack> Seems to be pretty easy to get access to it..
[21:32] <plugwash> current through switches is an interesting optimisation problem, too much can cause problems but so can too little
[21:35] <brianx> looks like just 3 contacts. guessing gray is 5V through a resistor and both yellow and brown are gpio inputs.
[21:35] <brianx> just a dvm will tell you.
[21:36] <Psi-Jack> Yep. That's what I'll be testing with, my DMM.
[21:36] * ali1234 (~ajbuxton@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] * codestorm (~codestorm@cpe-76-94-68-62.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:37] * HeathHayleiOS6 is now known as MriOS6
[21:38] <Psi-Jack> Yeah.. Orange/White is likely 5V.
[21:38] <Psi-Jack> Heh. I could hook all this up with likely a Cat5e cable. (or Cat6).
[21:38] <brianx> the video you pasted had gray, yellow, and brown.
[21:39] <brianx> gray being the moving contact.
[21:39] <Psi-Jack> Ahh yes.
[21:43] * Zparx (~Fox@dslb-188-108-186-178.188.108.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:46] <brianx> looks like mine is a LW2200.
[21:47] * m92 (~m92@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/m92) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:47] * lekare (~lekare@c-a91671d5.013-342-6b73641.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[21:48] <Psi-Jack> Hmm, interesting.
[21:49] <Psi-Jack> What would be the point of having a ESP8622 hooked up to the G line, which hooks up to the D->GND, S->IN1 of a relay switch, using a BS170 N-Chan Mosfet?
[21:49] <brianx> that's the gate of the mosfet.
[21:50] <Psi-Jack> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0oDFDsSfRTY/WG_0q4fhs6I/AAAAAAAAbMM/Qfsg7pggrcEiwXC9cb1O7Vvg_PYUrLBKwCEw/s1600/ESP8266_GarageDoor_Schematic.jpeg
[21:50] <polprog> Psi-Jack: what do you mean. it's prefectly ok, that's how you drive relays from logic
[21:50] <Psi-Jack> An interesting diagram. :)
[21:52] * rorro (~rorro@h-170-152-58.a163.priv.bahnhof.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:52] * jaziz (~jaziz@unaffiliated/jaziz) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[21:53] <brianx> that's a logic level fet activating the relay. the drawing is missing the pull up on S/IN1, but that might be built into the module.
[21:54] <Psi-Jack> Hmm, interesting.
[21:54] <brianx> unless the module is active when pulled down.
[21:54] <Psi-Jack> Says it's active when HIGH.
[21:54] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@2001:985:5982:1:7143:a798:3c92:3494) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:54] <brianx> no, it says D1 us active high.
[21:55] <brianx> not that the module is active high.
[21:55] <Psi-Jack> Ahhh.. Well, they do show the relay to-garage being on the NO terminal. :)
[21:55] <brianx> this pulls IN1 to ground when D1 goes high.
[21:56] <brianx> if this relay has no electronics and VCC on the relay module is a common connection to both coils, then IN1 and IN2 are the other end of the coils, this works fine.
[21:57] <Psi-Jack> Ahhhh... On that 2-channel relay, it's active low.
[21:57] * rorro (~rorro@h-170-152-58.a163.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:58] <brianx> maybe.
[21:58] <Psi-Jack> I just looked it up. :)
[21:58] <brianx> there isn't enough information.
[21:58] <brianx> ok.
[21:58] <polprog> no module schem?
[21:58] <Psi-Jack> Well, looked up Modtronix 2-channel relay and first hit.
[21:58] * GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@cpc111801-lutn14-2-0-cust55.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[21:59] * kw21 (~kw21@D978E830.cm-3-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:00] <brianx> with that module, there is no reason to use the fet.
[22:00] * Sashimi (~Sashimi@2a01cb0407cf5d0095dd9256b0c378fe.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[22:00] <Psi-Jack> Hehe
[22:01] <Psi-Jack> Hence, why I asked. :)
[22:01] <Psi-Jack> I didn't think it sounded quite right. heh
[22:02] * Sashimi (~Sashimi@2a01cb0407cf5d0031ab6dfd5d633fcb.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:02] <brianx> that fet isn't fully on at 3.3V either.
[22:03] * Kanerix (~Kanerix@c-174-52-1-125.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:03] <brianx> fig 5 on the datasheet shows it's only good for about 100ma when driven to 3.3v.
[22:04] * mmazing (~mmazing@unaffiliated/mmazing) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:04] * BOKALDO (~BOKALDO@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:04] <brianx> they don't even estimate the resistance when partially on like that.
[22:05] <Kanerix> I'm having power issues on a raspberry pi 3. The only things connected are the logitech nano keyboard/mouse, the rpi camera, and the hdmi. I have tried multiple different power supplies, battery, and GPIO (all of them above 2 amps). I am still getting frequent voltage drop warnings.
[22:05] <brianx> so ignore that blogspot post, it's garbage.
[22:05] <Kanerix> I'm connected using the internal wifi
[22:05] <[Saint]> mfa298: besides a vocal minority, what heat issues does the pi 3 have, precisely?
[22:05] <Kanerix> Powered by GPIO, I mean
[22:05] <[Saint]> Genuinely curious.
[22:06] <[Saint]> A tiny subset of users who fail to believe they have defective hardware and that the majority of other users don't see their issues with thermal control does not a fundamental problem make, IMO.
[22:06] * brianx says quietly, they get hot when run in performance mode without even overclocking.
[22:06] <Kanerix> I just can't find the reason for this thing to being dropping out like it is threatening to do.
[22:07] <Kanerix> *to be
[22:07] <Kanerix> Oh, I'm not overclocking it at all
[22:07] <[Saint]> brianx: oh, a SoC that gets how when run at 100% on all cores...colour me surprised!
[22:07] <Psi-Jack> brianx: I now understand at least better what a mosfet is for. :)
[22:07] * chartreuse (~chartreus@node-1w7jr9y881r277rp4g0c4jazs.ipv6.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:07] <Kanerix> CPU is idle
[22:07] <[Saint]> s/how/hot/
[22:07] <Psi-Jack> Applying voltage to the gate allows the source to feed out to the drain.
[22:08] <brianx> [Saint]: hot enough to throttle.
[22:08] <brianx> [Saint]: but not surprised at all either.
[22:08] <Psi-Jack> Or visa-versa for the P-channel.
[22:08] <brianx> Psi-Jack: yes.
[22:08] <[Saint]> brianx: I myself haven't seen this without trying to make it happen, and mine sit in a rack where ambient is ~60C.
[22:09] <[Saint]> So what only really gives me ~25C swing to throttle.
[22:09] <[Saint]> *that
[22:09] <Kanerix> The top of my chip is 35C
[22:09] <Kanerix> (IR thermometer is neat)
[22:09] <[Saint]> Mine sit at ~62C, but they're in a rack surrounded by servers and gigabit network gear.
[22:10] <brianx> [Saint]: mine live without covers or cases open to room air and both throttle when all cores are nailed 100% for a few minutes.
[22:10] <Kanerix> What happens when the efuse trips?
[22:10] <[Saint]> Yeah, my observations don't align with that at all.
[22:11] * rorro (~rorro@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:11] <brianx> so you've said many times.
[22:11] <[Saint]> I can certainly make thermal limiting happen, but it takes a lot more effort than that.
[22:11] * Myrtti (~myrtti@freenode/staff/myrtti) Quit (Ping timeout: 624 seconds)
[22:11] <brianx> default settings, nothing but a logitech wireless kb/mouse dongle and ethernet connected.
[22:12] <[Saint]> I maintain if this were a real issue that affected people wholesale it'd be more than the same two or three people stating it.
[22:12] <[Saint]> But perhaps that's a little too logical.
[22:12] <mfa298> [Saint]: I'm meaning that at stock speeds, without active cooling the SoC will reach 80C and will start to throttle back fairly quickly (within a few minutes with some load)
[22:12] <[Saint]> mfa298: yeah - and for the majority, that's not a thing that happens.
[22:12] <brianx> [Saint]: i'm sure there are not that many people testing it.
[22:13] <[Saint]> You're paining a picture of a fundamental issue the majority just doesn't see.
[22:13] <mfa298> if you're not putting active cooling in place then overclocking seems a fairly pointless exercise as you'll likely just start throttling sooner
[22:13] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:2032:ecbd:5ca5:3529) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:13] <brianx> you're the only one who has ever told me that this doesn't happen.
[22:13] * pcmerc_work (~pcmerc_wo@proxy-sf.kryptochaos.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:13] <[Saint]> So your logic is to assume that for everyone else it does happen, and they're just too ignorant to notice it, or totally fine with it?
[22:13] <[Saint]> And you don;t see a problem with that logic?
[22:14] <[Saint]> Out of hundreds of thousands of units sold?
[22:14] * GerhardSchr (~GerhardSc@unaffiliated/gerhardschr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:15] <mfa298> [Saint]: I'm saying what's the poitn of overclocking (as the masses seem to want to do) when there's little to no benefit - unless you've already taken steps to get the most out of the SoC as it heats up
[22:15] <Kanerix> I would really like to find some sort of solution or step to try in order to stabilize my machine
[22:16] <Kanerix> Or at least understand what's wrong
[22:16] <[Saint]> mfa298: I don't really think the masses do want to do this, do they? This channel provides somewhat of a nice echo chamber for confirmation bias.
[22:16] <mfa298> For most of the masses there's no issue with the SoC getting hot as they're not pushing it to the limits - at which point there seems little point in overclocking (yet many seem to want to do that)
[22:16] <brianx> we seem to have very few aware of any issue on either side. all but one have always said they heat to the point of throttling. few mention details like enclosures or anything blocking air flow.
[22:17] * m_t (~m_t@p5DDA2102.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:17] * mfa298 goes to dig out graphs of the Pi3 trottlign as it heats up
[22:17] * rorro (~rorro@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:17] <[Saint]> Well, I can say mine have no active cooling, and are sanwiched between standoffs and acrylic plates.
[22:18] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:2032:ecbd:5ca5:3529) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[22:18] <[Saint]> They run at 1.4GHz, sit at about 62C idle, and never thermal limit unless I try and make it happen.
[22:18] <brianx> in a cabinet with lots of heat and maybe a lot of airflow too.
[22:18] <[Saint]> Well...it is a server room.
[22:18] <[Saint]> But it does run hotter than I'd like.
[22:18] <brianx> mine isn't.
[22:19] <brianx> mine isn't in a server room
[22:19] <mfa298> [Saint]: and how often do they actually run at 1.4GHz, if idle I'd guess 90% of the time they're at the low (600MHz?) speed
[22:19] * shiftplusone (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:19] * lemonzest (~lemonzest@unaffiliated/lemonzest) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:20] <mfa298> and if 90% of the time it's running at the low speed, what's the point in overclocking it
[22:21] <mfa298> Pi3 from last summer, running something that actually made use of the CPU http://imgur.com/CnzQhUu
[22:21] <mfa298> I think that was with heatsink and no case. You can also see when the sun hit that room.
[22:22] <[Saint]> They're part of a distributed build cluster, they're basically only idle a couple hours a day in the weird twilight between the US going to bed and the UK waking.
[22:23] * sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-lrqgfgnkfyzeiizw) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:24] <[Saint]> I tend to think this is manufacturing variance.
[22:24] <[Saint]> I've had a small handful of units that just _would not_ overclock to my regular values with anything even remotely reselbling stability.
[22:24] <brianx> manufacturing variance is quite possible.
[22:24] <[Saint]> Of a couple of those, I drowned the SoC in gel flux and reflowed the boards, and now they magically work fine.
[22:25] <[Saint]> Of those I reflowed, one of them never booted again.
[22:25] * wgas (~quassel@unaffiliated/wgas) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:26] <mfa298> from what I've seen elsewhere most Pi3s will hit 80C if you're running it at full power for a period of time.
[22:26] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:26] <mfa298> Most peoples use isn't to be running 100% all the time, so it won't be heating all the time
[22:26] <[Saint]> I take issue with that, because there's no way you've got a representative sample fo most people.
[22:26] <mfa298> meaning less (or no) throttling, but then does OC actually make much sense
[22:26] <[Saint]> It's a very definition of observational bias.
[22:27] <[Saint]> You're self confirming. It's poor science all round.
[22:27] <mfa298> when the Pi3 came out there were a lot of people here and the forum stating heat issues
[22:27] <[Saint]> And there was also _infinitely many more_ who aren't.
[22:27] <[Saint]> ...yet you take the vocal minority.
[22:27] <mfa298> and I think various RPF (possibly even liz/eben) confirmed that if you drive the SoC hard then it will throttle
[22:28] <oq> my pi3 is room temperature at the moment
[22:28] <oq> (it's off)
[22:28] * agontarek (~agontarek@chippewa-nat.cray.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:28] <[Saint]> "Newsflash, SoC cores driven at load will produce waste heat"
[22:29] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:29] <[Saint]> "More spooky news at 11, back to you, Ken"
[22:29] <mfa298> so if you run something cpu (or better gpu intensive) - the likes of benchmark tools for 10+ minutes then look at the output of `vcgencmd measure_clock arm` see what it says
[22:30] <[Saint]> Ah, yes. Benchmarking tools. The representative sample of real world usage world over.
[22:30] * mfa298 thinks [Saint] is only reading half of what I've said - some might call that trolling.
[22:30] <mfa298> 20:26 < mfa298> Most peoples use isn't to be running 100% all the time, so it won't be heating all the time
[22:31] <[Saint]> Which is why it's _not a fricking problem_.
[22:31] <Psi-Jack> Ahemm..
[22:31] <[Saint]> And, to be perfectly honest, I read all of what yo say but regard most of it as psuedoscience nonsense.
[22:31] <[Saint]> Have for years.
[22:32] <mfa298> but then what's the point of overclocking (which is where this started) if you're not tryin to get lots of computational power out of it.
[22:32] * batch (~batch@unaffiliated/batch) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:33] <[Saint]> Are you serious? I just want to establish that.
[22:33] * brainzap (~brainzap@46-126-143-230.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:33] <[Saint]> That's really a question you're asking?
[22:34] <ali1234> if you want a fast computer, buy intel
[22:34] * An_Onion (~Anorion@unaffiliated/saidinunleashed) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:34] <oq> ali1234: or amd
[22:34] <[Saint]> There's obviously a limit where overlaps stop making sense, but surely you understand the point of overclocking is to have the SoC clock high for as little time as possible.
[22:34] <ali1234> nah, amd sucks
[22:34] <[Saint]> ha!
[22:34] <ali1234> would not buy again
[22:35] <[Saint]> your loss.
[22:35] * sware (~sware@unaffiliated/sware) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:35] <ali1234> my loss of weird USB errors and random freezes, yes
[22:35] <mfa298> and yes I would use (and have used) top end Intel CPU's and nvidia GPUs when needing real computation.
[22:35] <oq> ali1234: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+1800X&id=2966
[22:35] * An_Onion (~Anorion@unaffiliated/saidinunleashed) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:36] <ali1234> benchmarks
[22:36] <sware> Anyone here with experience in mmal? I'm trying to convert yuv data which I have separated by planes and pass that in
[22:37] <ali1234> amd is fast in the same way that a brick dropped out of a window is fast
[22:37] <[Saint]> Intel is fast in the same way the Chinese Women's Olympic Swin Team is fast.
[22:37] <[Saint]> ...they cheated.
[22:37] * defsdoor (~andy@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust177.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:38] <ali1234> ...but at least they don't drown before reaching the finish line?
[22:38] <[Saint]> Intel's been fudging benchmarks against their own toolchain for _years_.
[22:38] <[Saint]> Even a decade after the court order demanding they cut it out.
[22:38] * |gonzo| (~|gonzo|@unaffiliated/gonzo/x-2867351) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:39] <[Saint]> They disable swathes of hardware for AMD CPUs. Force the CPU to report as genuine Intel, and, bam...magic, AMD cores start outperforming Intel again.
[22:39] <mfa298> meh, most companies seem to fudge their own results, it's called marketing :p
[22:39] <[Saint]> Granted. ;)
[22:40] <[Saint]> Most cut it out after they get caught red handed and court ordered to though I would think.
[22:40] <oq> mfa298: it's not about their own results, it's about fixing the compiler so it defaults to an old config for a competitor
[22:41] <mfa298> and if you really wanted full performance from intel CPUs (as the HPC crowd may well want) then you may well be willing to build you OS and tools from scratch using the intel tool chain to get that last 1% of performance out - so it's not necessarily a bad fudging of results
[22:41] <[Saint]> Intel used lies and blatant bribery to get to a position where it could sit on its haunches and do incremental innovation for a decade.
[22:42] <[Saint]> Nearly bankrupting AMD several times over in the process.
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[22:47] * brainzap (~brainzap@46-126-143-230.dynamic.hispeed.ch) Quit (Quit: IRC client 0x7ffff85f21cce has value 0x20ec8348 which is neither locked or unlocked. The memory has been smashed.)
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[22:47] * mihon (~mihon@c83-254-164-67.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:48] * chra94 (~chra94@unaffiliated/chra94) Quit (Quit: chra94)
[22:48] <plugwash> I'm not saying Intel tomfoolery isn't a factor but I do wonder how much of a factor. Afaict most software is built with either GNU or microsoft toolchains.
[22:48] * designbybeck (~designbyb@x170y113.angelo.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:49] <Psi-Jack> Anyone need any measuring tape?
[22:53] <brianx> i'm about to buy a 50' tape.
[22:53] * |gonzo| (~|gonzo|@unaffiliated/gonzo/x-2867351) Quit (Quit: quit)
[22:54] * Kanerix (~Kanerix@c-174-52-1-125.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:55] <Psi-Jack> Hehe
[22:56] <Psi-Jack> I'm wondering if that'll be long enough. :)
[22:56] <brianx> it will be for my project.
[22:56] * designbybeck (~designbyb@x170y113.angelo.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:57] <brianx> i've lived for ages with no more than 25' and the occasional access to 100' when i asked. the owner of the 100' died though. :-(
[22:57] <Psi-Jack> Oh, I was thinking about it's use for something else. :)
[22:57] <Psi-Jack> But, luckilly as soon as I mentioned it... it got quiet. :)
[22:58] <d0rm0us3> One thing I've noted... the pi doesn't seem to be to resilient to pentesting... tips over way to easy
[22:58] <brianx> hmm, i don't think i want to know.
[22:59] <Psi-Jack> heh
[22:59] <Psi-Jack> d0rm0us3: Heh. Well, ink often times is quite conductive.
[22:59] * Atm0spher1c (~future@unaffiliated/atm0spher1c) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:00] <d0rm0us3> signals jumping the trace... well now that isn't good
[23:00] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The Kirito is always right foundation. Grand reopening.)
[23:00] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:00] <d0rm0us3> s/pentesting/penetration testing
[23:01] * IT_Sean tests all of the pens in Psi-Jack's office, throws away the dead ones, puts the good ones back, sends him a six-figure invoice for pen-testing.
[23:01] * tombrough (~tom@cpc95110-newt39-2-0-cust89.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has left #raspberrypi
[23:02] <Psi-Jack> d0rm0us3: Hmmm.. Usually that happends after marriage...
[23:03] * TheSin{Ti} (~TheSin@gateway.bluefalls.ca) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[23:04] * puzzola (~puzzola@unaffiliated/puzzola) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:05] * RajRajRaj (uid72176@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hvvclunpidguwtes) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[23:06] <Psi-Jack> Hmmmm
[23:06] * designbybeck (~designbyb@x170y113.angelo.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:07] * kw21 (~kw21@D978E830.cm-3-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:07] <Psi-Jack> Well... This Photoresistor is really just all over the place.. Give it darkness, it gives reading 17~54. Give it room light, 2~11.
[23:09] * spybert (~spybert@c-50-173-239-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[23:10] * Psi-Jack chuckles to IT_Sean, looking at the invoice, and scratches his head. Looks at his new shiny pens, shrugs, crumbles up the invoice and tosses it into the trashbin for a perfect score.
[23:11] * puzzola (~puzzola@unaffiliated/puzzola) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * IT_Sean sends his enforcement team to deal with Psi-Jack
[23:12] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@bur64-4-78-199-90-154.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Quit: YuGiOhJCJ)
[23:13] * Psi-Jack watches his shiny new security system's arsenal automated tracking system and armament take care of the team. Ceiling mounted miniguns, etc..
[23:14] * IT_Sean drops a tac-nuke on Psi-Jack's city
[23:14] <IT_Sean> I take unpaid invoices very seriousily.
[23:14] <Psi-Jack> heh
[23:15] * Psi-Jack thankfully, the underground bunker......
[23:17] * lopta (ball@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:17] * Sashimi (~Sashimi@2a01cb0407cf5d0079c5271170a0b3f1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-173-54-108-176.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: djk)
[23:19] <lopta> My boss is going to order a touch screen for his Raspberry Pi!
[23:19] * rorro (~rorro@h-170-152-58.a163.priv.bahnhof.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:20] * Jonwel (~Jonwel@541971C3.cm-5-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:21] <gordonDrogon> the 7" foundation one works well.
[23:21] * Envil (~envil@x55b42565.dyn.telefonica.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:22] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-173-54-108-176.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:22] <lopta> gordonDrogon: That's useful to know. Thanks!
[23:24] * angelluis (~angelluis@ Quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
[23:26] <brianx> guess you now need a new garage door opener Psi-Jack. might as well get one that is internet ready...
[23:26] <brianx> along with a whole new home, now that the old one is nuked.
[23:26] * angelluis (~angelluis@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:26] <Psi-Jack> haha
[23:27] * angelluis (~angelluis@ Quit (Client Quit)
[23:27] <Psi-Jack> brianx: I could "internet-enable" my existing one simply by replacing the control panel itself.
[23:28] <Psi-Jack> But, again. MyQ is pretty much garbage in my eyes.
[23:28] <brianx> i saw that in the accessories link.
[23:28] <Psi-Jack> And requires internet depenancies to control.
[23:28] * angelluis (~angelluis@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:28] <Psi-Jack> As in, it won't work /without a constant link to the MyQ service site.
[23:28] <Psi-Jack> And that by itself is already a security risk.
[23:29] <brianx> dang
[23:30] <brianx> probably doesn't check the certificate, you can probably forge it with a self signed.
[23:31] <Psi-Jack> I don't know. It's just the higher risk of trusting Chamberlain and their web services, ect.
[23:31] <brianx> absolutely.
[23:31] <Psi-Jack> But, not only JUST their services, but everything in between as well.
[23:31] * immibis (~chatzilla@122-61-224-157.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:32] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@AMontsouris-655-1-14-151.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[23:32] * higuita (~higuita@2001:818:dee9:4200:ec72:50ff:fe96:f291) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[23:33] <Psi-Jack> Hmmmm
[23:34] <Psi-Jack> So by reading and caching the last 5 photoresistor sensor values, I can at least get a fair assessment of what the light level kind of is..
[23:34] * anuxivm (~anuxi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:35] <Psi-Jack> Keeping 5 results to average against gives me <15 on, >=15 off
[23:35] * anuxivm (~anuxi@ has left #raspberrypi
[23:38] * cesdo (~user@ Quit (Excess Flood)
[23:42] <Psi-Jack> Blah, having to remember to terminate my log() function calls with NULL is catching me, many times.
[23:44] <[Saint]> d0rm0us3: ...example?
[23:45] <[Saint]> d0rm0us3: Do you have a repeatable recipe for failure?
[23:45] <[Saint]> I've noticed some edge cases myself, but it's less pentest specific and more "crappy network controller is crappy" specific.
[23:46] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-78-102-201-117.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:46] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:2032:ecbd:5ca5:3529) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:46] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:2032:ecbd:5ca5:3529) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:47] <[Saint]> In unrelated news, that awkward moment when you realize why you've been getting skewed results with the simple POSIX hardware reporting tool you've been building and need to gut your logic for detecting differences in clocks and voltages because a couple of Pi models have different default clocks and voltages for seemingly arbitrary reasons.
[23:49] <Psi-Jack> OKay, time to open up the garage door bottom side. :)
[23:49] <[Saint]> Now I need to add a chunk of logic to detect the exact model of Rpi to be able to effectively report SDRAM clock and overvoltage.
[23:49] <[Saint]> A chunk of logic that ends up being about the same size as the current project is in entirety.
[23:51] <brianx> Psi-Jack: make yourself a macro that inserts the NULL.
[23:52] * immibis (~chatzilla@122-61-224-157.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[23:52] <brianx> macros take variable args without a count or null or anything, so they can add the null all by themselves.
[23:54] * spybert (~spybert@c-50-173-239-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] * Cy-GorWork (~IceChat9@ Quit (Quit: IceChat - Keeping PC's cool since 2000)
[23:56] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.