#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2017-04-26

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:03] <cnnx> methuzla: what do you do with your rpi zero?
[0:04] <[Saint]> Hmmmm. Debian's Stretch preview image is sooooo close to being usable.
[0:04] <BurtyB> err current pi2 is newer than the pi3 ;)
[0:04] <[Saint]> It's nice to see the kernel/firmware packaged in a way that actually respects Debian packaging requirements, too.
[0:05] <[Saint]> BurtyB: while you're not wrong, there's basically zero reason to get the Pi 2.
[0:05] <methuzla> oh yeah. forgot they did a pi2 rev.
[0:05] <[Saint]> Even if it does have the updated SoC, ine has to wonder why they did so.
[0:05] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-78-102-201-117.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] <BurtyB> [Saint], I was just fighting the old corner for the poor thing ;)
[0:06] <mlelstv> they are probably short on the pi2 soc
[0:06] <methuzla> availability
[0:06] <BurtyB> [Saint], because not everyone wants to deal with wifi
[0:06] <mlelstv> nothing against a pi2 with wifi...
[0:06] <[Saint]> BurtyB: That's obtuse.
[0:06] <[Saint]> It's not like you can't disable it, or have to use it.
[0:07] <[Saint]> Everything the Pi 2 has, the Pi 3 has.
[0:07] <[Saint]> There's literally no reason to favor the 2 over the 3.
[0:07] <mlelstv> well, the 3 overheats, the 2 does not :)
[0:07] <BurtyB> [Saint], true but I imagine you'd still need to go through compliance testing as an emitter if it's in your product...
[0:07] <mlelstv> the 3 also needs more power
[0:08] <BurtyB> mlelstv, the 2 will throttle too :)
[0:08] <[Saint]> BurtyB: No. It already did that to ship as a consumer product.
[0:08] * snapdata (snapdata@c-67-187-5-100.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] <[Saint]> mlelstv: that's largely untrue outside a vocal camp of people who refuse to acknowledge that their hardware is faulty.
[0:08] <BurtyB> [Saint], that doesn't make it OK to use without testing
[0:09] * Atm0spher1c (~future@unaffiliated/atm0spher1c) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[0:09] <mlelstv> well, the 2 will throttle too if it overheats. But usually it doesn't. I have a 2 and a 3 here and see the difference.
[0:09] <[Saint]> ANd for most people, it's really unrealistic metrics anyway.
[0:09] <mlelstv> unrealistic?
[0:09] <[Saint]> Like "See, when I peg all 4 cores, and the GPU for several minutes, it gets hot!"
[0:09] <[Saint]> ...no shit, Sherlock.
[0:09] <mlelstv> no GPU involved
[0:09] <snapdata> I'm having this issue with hostapd where I have to start it manually. I've tried configuring DAEMON_CONF= in /etc/init.d/hostapd and /etc/defaults/hostapd, I've tried removing it from if-pre-up.d and rc.d and instead putting `post-up /usr/sbin/hostapd -B /etc/hostapd/hostapd.conf` in /etc/network/interfaces
[0:09] <BurtyB> well you can't peg all 4 cpu as it throttles ;)
[0:09] <TotemFallico> [Saint], drown it in water, it's gonna be ok!
[0:10] <mlelstv> just pegging all 4 cores overheats the 3, but not the 2.
[0:10] <mlelstv> overheat == throttles down
[0:10] * Atm0spher1c (~future@unaffiliated/atm0spher1c) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:10] <BurtyB> mlelstv, mine does
[0:10] <snapdata> I restarted and can see with `ps -ef | grep hostapd` that it's running ( 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/hostapd -B /etc/hostapd/hostapd.conf) but it's not creating an AP, and doesn't until I stop it and restart it. Any ideas?
[0:11] <mlelstv> I have both in a pibow case, the 2 even has a hat mounted.
[0:11] * svm_invictvs (~patrick@unaffiliated/svminvictvs/x-938456) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:11] <TotemFallico> mlelstv, i think that if something doesn't throttle during overheating might be a problem or am i wrong?
[0:12] <mlelstv> no, you are right. the problem is not that it throttles, but that it overheats just by keeping all 4 cores busy.
[0:13] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:13] <[Saint]> I just wonder if you're aware that hundreds of thousands of these units have been sold and that the vast majority of users either don't see this at all, or aren't affected by it.
[0:13] * Flynnn (~textual@unaffiliated/flynnn) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[0:13] <TotemFallico> do like i did, i didn't buy any kind of casing and glued a 120mm fan that flow over it
[0:13] <[Saint]> Because most use cases won't keep all four cores pegged.
[0:13] <TotemFallico> i have a pi3 tho
[0:13] <mlelstv> I can easily reproduce that with a "benchmark". But it also happens when I for example run a system build.
[0:13] <mlelstv> saint, what do you know about what "most use cases" are.
[0:13] * Flynnn (~textual@unaffiliated/flynnn) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:14] <mlelstv> that's a very silly argument.
[0:14] <[Saint]> No less silly than you presenting this as a fundamental issue that affects all Pi 3 boards.
[0:14] <TotemFallico> mlelstv, i use it with with Lakka for retrogaming and emulation, doesn't require that much and doesn't overheat
[0:14] <mlelstv> it affects all pi 3 boards :)
[0:14] <[Saint]> Fuck off.
[0:16] <mlelstv> I guess the retrogaming occupies mostly one core.
[0:16] <TotemFallico> you can multithread the emulator so
[0:17] <[Saint]> All of the libretro cores are multithreaded.
[0:17] <TotemFallico> anyway, it's stupid to say that pi3 overheats and pi2 doesn't. Also, pi3 has something more added or am i wrong?
[0:17] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[0:17] <[Saint]> So there's that argument right out the window.
[0:18] <[Saint]> TotemFallico: well, it's clear that the argument isn't being presented from a font of wisdom...so...
[0:18] <mlelstv> I can put my pi2 and pi3 side by side and see the difference.
[0:18] <mlelstv> just by running a build
[0:18] <[Saint]> Yes, that's nice dear.
[0:18] <[Saint]> Your observations hold true for everyone, ever. Mhm.
[0:18] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@c-73-246-193-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:19] <mlelstv> they obviously hold true for everyone who uses the 4 cores over some time.
[0:19] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-78-102-201-117.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:19] <[Saint]> Oh, yes. Obviously.
[0:19] <[Saint]> Oh, wait...nope. Reality.
[0:19] <TotemFallico> to be an effective observation, you should be using the same process over at least a sample of 1 hundred pi2 and 1 hundred of pi3, record the temp for all the procedure on all 4 cored indipendently giving out diagrams which you can confront
[0:19] <mlelstv> that's as real as it can get
[0:20] * miczac (~miczac@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:20] <[Saint]> Are you familiar with the terms "observation bias" and "confirmwation bias"?
[0:20] <[Saint]> I feel like you need to be.
[0:20] * [Butch] (~butch@ Quit (Quit: I'm out . . .)
[0:20] <[Saint]> You're displaying both.
[0:20] <[Saint]> s/w//
[0:21] <mlelstv> so you think I have a bad pi3 or a magic pi2 that doesn't overheat just to prove your point that pi2 is worse than pi3? :)
[0:21] <[Saint]> I think little more than you're presenting bad science as fact.
[0:21] <mlelstv> you present no science at all as fact.
[0:22] * m92 (~m92@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/m92) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[0:22] <TotemFallico> nope, means that a comparions between the two, giving out that even in industrial processing nothing comes out exactly as the others, needs more than one sample to give out a real thing
[0:22] * DieFledermaus is now known as insomnia
[0:22] <mlelstv> no, just put some arbitrary requirements on what you would accept as proof.
[0:23] <mlelstv> If I could refer to 100 pi3 and 100 pi2 you would say that I need a million of either.
[0:23] <TotemFallico> you fell into a logical problem, 'cause the logic behind your reasoning with your "proofs" is right, but the base upon you build your reasoning is wrong
[0:23] <[Saint]> You're doing a classic logic fallacy:
[0:23] <[Saint]> - All crows are black
[0:23] <[Saint]> - All crows are birds
[0:23] <[Saint]> - All birds are black
[0:23] <[Saint]> It's idiocy.
[0:23] <mlelstv> so my pi3 doesn't overheat and my pi2 overheats because that's what you say?
[0:23] <mlelstv> no, I don't believe you :)
[0:24] <[Saint]> No one's saying yours doesn't overheat. Quit being an idiot.
[0:24] <TotemFallico> mlelstv, we say that even if your pi3 overheats and your p2 doesn't, it's not a rule
[0:24] <[Saint]> WHat we are saying is that your hardware is not representative of the masses.
[0:24] <[Saint]> And...it isn't.
[0:24] <mlelstv> no, you say that pi2 overheats. as a rule. and pi3 overheats as a rule. so pi3 is better than pi2. as a rule.
[0:24] <[Saint]> You are the volcal minority.
[0:25] <[Saint]> No one said that.
[0:25] <mlelstv> just scroll back a little :)
[0:25] * svm_invictvs (~patrick@unaffiliated/svminvictvs/x-938456) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] <[Saint]> I repeat. No one said that.
[0:25] <mlelstv> sounds like alternate facts
[0:25] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:25] <TotemFallico> we said that everything that overheats throttles
[0:25] <TotemFallico> and that's a fact
[0:25] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:25] <TotemFallico> or at least i think it is
[0:26] <mlelstv> actually I don't know if the pi2 throttles. It never did for me.
[0:26] * Hitechcg (~Hitechcg@2602:43:edb1:7900:3246:9aff:fe29:8c22) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:26] <[Saint]> "I never noticed it" != "it never did"
[0:26] <CoJaBo> It won't usually get hot enough
[0:26] <mlelstv> ah, now everything happens as you say because I wouldn't notice that and can't proof you are wrong :)
[0:26] * Hitechcg (~Hitechcg@2602:43:edb1:7900:3246:9aff:fe29:8c22) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:26] <mlelstv> you even prove that my pi2 throttles now, just be telling something here
[0:27] <TotemFallico> he doesn't prove anything rather than u being stupid
[0:27] <[Saint]> You don't realize the irony in that statement with you presenting no proof you're right, either?
[0:27] <mlelstv> cojaba, yes, that's what I am saying.
[0:27] <mlelstv> but since it never gets hot enough here, I can't observe that it throttles.
[0:28] <mlelstv> well, I have at least anecdotal proof. But it happens here as a I say.
[0:28] <[Saint]> "only _MY_ statements should be blindly consumed without fact, as true - not yours" - mlelstv, April 28, 2016
[0:28] <[Saint]> #neverforget
[0:28] <mlelstv> well, you make statements that are supposed to be universally true. I don't.
[0:29] <CoJaBo> [Saint]: You mispelled "EveryoneontheInternet"
[0:29] <TotemFallico> let's take out facts,
[0:29] <CoJaBo> rm -rf /facts/
[0:29] <[Saint]> The only statement I've made to be universally true is that your observations don't make for cases that are universally true.
[0:29] <mlelstv> but if you for example could show that a pi2 and a pi3 running the same "benchmark" both overheat... that would be a fact on your side.
[0:30] <[Saint]> A benchmark is _designed_ to get cores to throttle.
[0:30] <mlelstv> no
[0:30] <mlelstv> it is designed to keep them busy and to measure how fast they run
[0:30] <TotemFallico> Pi2 has a lower clock freq on gpu than the Pi3, the Pi3 has wifi and bluetooth integrated
[0:31] <TotemFallico> and lower cpu clock, also having different cpu
[0:31] <TotemFallico> but same gpu
[0:31] <mlelstv> it has
[0:31] <TotemFallico> so temps might be hotter, but it's not that much higher
[0:31] <mlelstv> you could try something to see the difference.
[0:31] <TotemFallico> we ain't talking like 20 degrees over the pi2, maybe 2-5 degrees assuming the drive is perfect
[0:31] <mlelstv> oh, it's more like 30 degrees
[0:32] <TotemFallico> also, benchmark shows that Pi3 throttles at higher temps
[0:32] <TotemFallico> did your pi3 ever fell?
[0:32] <mlelstv> no
[0:32] <TotemFallico> you sneezed nerby it?
[0:32] <TotemFallico> 'cause it sounds like faulty hw rather than a magical pi2 being 30 degrees colder
[0:32] <mlelstv> sneezing at a pi destroys it? :)
[0:33] <TotemFallico> we are talking about two passive-dissipated circuits.
[0:33] <mlelstv> ok, was 30 degrees in a cold room. Now it's probably 20 degrees.
[0:34] <TotemFallico> you are actually implying that a cold room influences just the pi2 and not the pi3
[0:34] <mlelstv> no, I don't
[0:34] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:35] <TotemFallico> yeah, 'cause the difference should be the same but at higher temps
[0:35] <mlelstv> the throttling temperature is a constant. So in a cold room there is more headroom before throttling
[0:35] <TotemFallico> if in the cold room you have 20 vs 50, in the hot room you have 25 vs 55, not 25 vs 75
[0:36] <TotemFallico> go ask for a new pi3, i think you got urself a faulty one
[0:36] * Mikelevel (~MoVeWoRk@unaffiliated/mikelevel) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:36] <mlelstv> you wouldn't accept any fact unless I have a hundred pi3 that are not faulty :)
[0:37] * mmazing (~mmazing@unaffiliated/mmazing) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:37] * TheSin (~TheSin@d108-181-59-119.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] <TotemFallico> it's just being reasonable. If you cook a steak, and just once you burn it, does it mean you can't cook a steak?
[0:37] <TotemFallico> nope
[0:38] <TotemFallico> but if you cook 100 steaks and 100 steaks comes out burnt, then stop cooking
[0:38] <TotemFallico> it's being reasonable.
[0:39] <mlelstv> since most pi3s don't heat up, I am quite sure that it is more easy that you can run a test program and show that it doesn't happen on your pi3 :)
[0:39] * jaziz1 (~jaziz@unaffiliated/jaziz) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] <TotemFallico> since most pi3 doesn't heat up, mine doesn't, it's pretty safe to assume yours is faulty.
[0:41] <mlelstv> https://github.com/ssvb/cpuburn-arm
[0:41] <mlelstv> run this
[0:41] <TotemFallico> Also, duckduckgo it's on my side
[0:41] <TotemFallico> cpuburn? the name sounds scary
[0:41] * webturtle0 (~webturtle@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[0:42] <mlelstv> it just keeps one core busy trying to utilize most of it to generate the most heat.
[0:42] <mlelstv> but otherwise it's a normal program.
[0:42] <mlelstv> any regular program will produce less stress
[0:42] * epyon9283 (epyon9283@ Quit ()
[0:42] <mlelstv> you can just run it. 4 times to use all 4 cores. and then watch the temperature go up
[0:43] <mlelstv> until the pi3 throttles
[0:43] <mlelstv> or the pi2 if that happens for you
[0:43] <TotemFallico> i have a pi3 model b
[0:43] <mlelstv> where is difference?
[0:43] <TotemFallico> idk, just wanted to be more precise
[0:44] <TotemFallico> it's the first pi i take
[0:44] <TotemFallico> ever
[0:44] <[Saint]> - "Run this program, that is literally intended to generate waste heat and will by virtue of the design of governors and scaling in the Linux kernel _absolutely_ and _definitely_ throttle over time"
[0:44] <[Saint]> - "This is proof that Pi 3s throttle"
[0:44] <mlelstv> I only know about one pi3 model.
[0:44] <[Saint]> ...logic.
[0:45] <mlelstv> saint, the throttling is not done by the governors...
[0:45] <[Saint]> It's like deliberately kicking a cat, and then saying all shoes kick cats.
[0:45] <mlelstv> it's the firmware (probably something running on the GPU) that does it
[0:45] * sunn (~oliver@host86-150-104-120.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:45] <mlelstv> feel free to disable the governors.
[0:45] <[Saint]> mlelstv: I'm aware of that, but scaling and governing will always elevate a busy work queue.
[0:46] <mlelstv> there is no work queue
[0:46] <[Saint]> ...what, of course there is.
[0:46] <mlelstv> when 4 processes occupy 4 cores and nothing else, then there is no queue.
[0:47] <TotemFallico> either you are higher than me, or you're trolling
[0:47] <mlelstv> besides, any program generates waste heat. That's called physics.
[0:48] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@bur64-4-78-199-90-154.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:48] <TotemFallico> mlelstv, in this case he meant that it generates waste heat as a purpose, not as a byproduct
[0:48] <mlelstv> as if the amount of heat had something to do how "worthy" the program is.
[0:48] <[Saint]> TotemFallico: often knowing just enough about many things to be dangerous looks quite a lot like trolling. But I dunno. I'm not convinced either way. I'm on the fence.
[0:48] <mlelstv> so where is difference? assume that it cracks some crypto or searches prime numbers. Same heat. But now it's a "byproduct".
[0:49] <mlelstv> as I said, running a system build does the same. Not as fast, not all the time. But it happens.
[0:49] <mlelstv> that program just exercises the effect to make it easily observable.
[0:49] <TotemFallico> if i make a program with the purpose of listing the name of the porns i've in my search history, and it generates 4 degrees of heat it's fine. but if create a program that runs an infinite loop until the core throttle, it's not a byproduct but it's a purpose
[0:50] <mlelstv> so the throttling doesn't happen if its a byproduct?
[0:50] <TotemFallico> the throttling happens 'cause is something related to the chip, not to the program itself.
[0:50] <mlelstv> it's completely irrelevant to the topic.
[0:50] <[Saint]> Is this real life? Like...is this seriously happening?
[0:51] <[Saint]> It's like a train wreck. It's almost impossible to look away from.
[0:51] <TotemFallico> it's relevant 'cause it's impossible to fill up all the cores for a prolonged time unless you did a mistake or you do a stupid benchmark
[0:51] <mlelstv> saint, did you sell your pi2 for a pi3 and need to rationalize it? :) Do it with the xtra wifi :)
[0:51] <mlelstv> of course it is possible to fill up all cores for a long time doing something useful
[0:52] <mlelstv> it's my day job to do that (not on pi)
[0:52] <mlelstv> but even a system build, which I occasionally do on a pi, does the same.
[0:52] <TotemFallico> when i do a project, i choose the hw based on the load
[0:52] <mlelstv> make -j 6 and off you go
[0:53] <mlelstv> well, if your choice is a pi2 or a pi3...
[0:53] <mlelstv> you chose a jetson tk1 :)
[0:53] <TotemFallico> i'd choose the higher specs
[0:54] <mlelstv> well, the pi3, when throttled, is slower than pi2.
[0:55] <mlelstv> you can probably create some governor that can balance this out. But it's not that easy.
[0:55] <mlelstv> but for now, just assume my pi3 is broken.
[0:55] <TotemFallico> that's stupid
[0:55] <mlelstv> stupid? why?
[0:55] <TotemFallico> correct me if i'm wrong, but throttling or not the higher cpu clock wins. even during throttling
[0:56] * hydrogen (~hydrogen@amarok/developer/hydrogen) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:56] <mlelstv> throttling means the pi3 clock is reduced, sometimes down to 600MHz.
[0:56] <mlelstv> and since that is something the firmware does, you cannot really influence it.
[0:58] <TotemFallico> assuming that the pi3 has 1 GHz and the pi2 has 800 MHz, if both throttles they both reduce they clock, therefore even if it is possible that they are gonna match on one clock, i think it's rather impossible for it to be lower.
[0:59] <mlelstv> now that is true if the pi2 would throttle. But remember that my pi2 running that program doesn't throttle.
[0:59] <mlelstv> it's running fine at 900MHz, and the last time the temperature barely got about 60C.
[0:59] <mlelstv> temperature as reported by the firmware
[0:59] <doomlord> rpi webbrowser can't display youtube videos out of the box still ?
[1:00] * IT_Sean (~quassel@applefritter/IRCStaff) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:00] <TotemFallico> but the program is running slower than the pi3, that even if it throttles should be faster than the pi2. Maybe not noticeably faster due to some other limitation (same write speed 'cause of similar sdcard or stuff like that) but still, faster
[1:00] <mlelstv> on pi3 on 1.2GHz it goes up beyond 80C and then throttles.
[1:01] <[Saint]> That's not even remotely true.
[1:01] <mlelstv> a pi3 throttled down to 600MHz is not faster than a pi2 at 900MHz
[1:02] <TotemFallico> a pi2 throttled goes down to what? 400MHz? for sure doesn't keep the 900MHz up
[1:02] <mlelstv> as I said, it doesn't throttle here.
[1:02] <mlelstv> I've never seen it doing that. Which of course doesn't say that it never happens. But not when running that program.
[1:02] <TotemFallico> Also, if your PI3 is this hot, that's one more thing that will point out a possible faulty hw
[1:03] <mlelstv> try to run it on your pi3 :)
[1:03] <TotemFallico> what about no
[1:03] <[Saint]> Hell, I run my Pi 3 images at 1.4Ghz with an OV of 6, and SDRAM at 500 and in general everyday use - like right now for instance, I can see quite a bit of high clock workload but it's sitting at around 68C.
[1:03] <mlelstv> you won't?
[1:03] * Madatnek (~Madatnek@c-50a6db54.046-15-7673745.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:03] <[Saint]> ANd that's with a whopping great big DAC and amp stack on top of the board.
[1:03] <TotemFallico> do you know how long should i work to get the console out of Lakka?
[1:03] <mlelstv> as if the soc would be influence by the dac and amp stack :)
[1:04] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:04] <mlelstv> console?
[1:04] * cwesterfield-awa (~cwest@66-38-67-33.pool.dsl.duo-county.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:04] * Cy-GorWork (~IceChat9@ Quit (Quit: There's nothing dirtier than a giant ball of oil)
[1:04] <TotemFallico> Lakka is not for benchmarking and normal testing, is focused on the games and has a menu by itself
[1:05] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[1:05] <TotemFallico> to benchmark it, i'd have to boot from archlinux arm which i didn't have installed yet
[1:05] * Madatnek (~Madatnek@c-50a6db54.046-15-7673745.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:06] <TotemFallico> the workaround is way too hard and every time you update something you have to do it again so
[1:06] <TotemFallico> no benchmarking
[1:06] <[Saint]> 26042017110356 <mlelstv> as if the soc would be influence by the dac and amp stack :)
[1:06] <[Saint]> - yeah, I mean...why /would/ the SoC be influenced by a stack of two additional boards in the case with it, stacked mere millimeters away from it, with ~50W of current passing through it.
[1:07] <[Saint]> ...crazy right?
[1:07] <[Saint]> </s>
[1:07] <mlelstv> which means that you have no knowledge that your pi3 doesn't overheat, but you already know that mine must be broken :)
[1:07] <mlelstv> current doesn't have Watt
[1:08] * batch (~batch@unaffiliated/batch) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:08] * firebalrog (~firebalro@wsip-24-120-168-125.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Quit: firebalrog)
[1:09] <mlelstv> now if that amp heats up to 80C then it may affect the soc. Does it?
[1:09] <TotemFallico> i'm taking the assumption that if every pi3 had this kind of temps, people would have been complaining all over the web, which they didn't, and no one would buy a pi3. Therefore, if it's just single cases and not the usual case, it's safe to assume faulty hw
[1:09] * batch (~batch@unaffiliated/batch) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:09] <mlelstv> people have been complaining all over the web that the pi3 overheats.
[1:09] <mlelstv> of course only those that actually kept the soc busy.
[1:09] * ams__ (uid48118@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fimdnebwoezpkebw) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[1:09] <TotemFallico> yeah, most of them say it overheats when they try to hook it up to a 4k television or they OC it
[1:10] <mlelstv> if you use a pi3 to control some gpio or sound dac, it's probably far away from that
[1:10] <mlelstv> the pi cannot drive a 4k signal.
[1:10] <TotemFallico> also, the DAC influences by reducing the air volume in contact with the chip, giving out higher temps
[1:11] <TotemFallico> i know it doesn't give out 4k, but i've seen some complaints or reddit weeks ago about someone who would hook up the pi to a television and it would heat up, but not over 80C as your pi do
[1:12] <TotemFallico> also, less air volume and the DAC itself heats, having a closed air system with no air movement heated by two sources so yes, it influences the temps
[1:12] * Datalink_ (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] <mlelstv> playing video doesn't heat up the soc that much. It's pretty idle then.
[1:13] <mlelstv> so a pi in a now _closed air system_ doesn't heat up but a pi in a open case does? :)
[1:14] <mlelstv> the pi2 currently has a tft display hat mounted. Doesn't generate heat, but reduces airflow. But the effect is minimal.
[1:14] <TotemFallico> if it happens, means the hw is faulty.
[1:14] * svm_invictvs (~patrick@unaffiliated/svminvictvs/x-938456) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[1:14] <mlelstv> of course that's not "closed". But I don't think that DAC board does that for you
[1:15] <mlelstv> or maybe all pi3s heat up when busy :)
[1:15] <TotemFallico> why are you soo eager to demonstrate that a pi2 is better than a pi3?
[1:15] <mlelstv> I'm not
[1:15] * Datalink (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:16] <mlelstv> just saying that I don't like the overheating. I use the pi2 as my desktop and haven't switched to the pi3 because of that.
[1:16] * newbie123 (~john_ramb@unaffiliated/john-rambo/x-5460353) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:17] <TotemFallico> you're like those girls that when their friend broke with his BF will do everything to make him look like an ass
[1:17] <newbie123> My time is all wrong ... How to configure NTP ?
[1:17] <mlelstv> and I would care less if just that cpuburn tool would have that effect. But it hasn't.
[1:17] <mlelstv> I didn't say that that there is no reason at all to ever want a pi2 when you can get a pi3
[1:18] * Flynnn (~textual@unaffiliated/flynnn) Quit (Quit: Auf Wiedersehen!)
[1:18] <mlelstv> just scroll up :)
[1:19] <TotemFallico> i didn't say that u said what you said i said you said
[1:19] <methuzla> newbie123: should just work. what os are you using?
[1:20] <newbie123> methuzla, Jessie
[1:20] <methuzla> newbie123: wrong how? off by hours? or by years?
[1:20] * snowkidind (~textual@216-15-40-124.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: astalaPIZZA Baby!)
[1:20] <newbie123> methuzla, By hours
[1:20] <mlelstv> wasn't you who said it but Saint
[1:21] <methuzla> could localization settings then
[1:21] <methuzla> *could be
[1:21] <methuzla> have you set your time zone?
[1:21] <newbie123> methuzla, No IIRC
[1:22] <newbie123> How to set time zone ? methuzla
[1:22] <methuzla> raspi-config
[1:24] * Envil (~envil@x4e371113.dyn.telefonica.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:24] * bilboquet (~bilboquet@95-210-221-94.ip.skylogicnet.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:24] <TotemFallico> gtg cya
[1:24] * TotemFallico (~TotemFall@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:25] <newbie123> Rebooting ...
[1:25] * newbie123 (~john_ramb@unaffiliated/john-rambo/x-5460353) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:28] * brokaw (~textual@216-188-254-66.dyn.grandenetworks.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[1:30] * brokaw (~textual@216-188-254-66.dyn.grandenetworks.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:32] <binaryhermit> I thought the Pi could do 15 hz 4k
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[1:32] * laurent\ (~laurent@unaffiliated/laurent/x-4048133) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:32] <methuzla> based on what?
[1:33] * Hobbyboy (Hobbyboy@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-aepshpmykjcxmyze) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[1:33] * sphenxes01 (~sphenxes@85-90-142-222.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:33] <binaryhermit> Though 15 hz is not good for showing motion
[1:35] <mlelstv> well, that's no resolution a standard hdmi device has to accept. So maybe you are lucky.
[1:36] * angelluis (~angelluis@ Quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
[1:36] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@85-90-142-222.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:37] * sphenxes01 (~sphenxes@85-90-142-222.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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[1:40] <nacelle> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=79330
[1:40] <nacelle> (re: pi @4k)
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[1:49] * newbie123 (~john_ramb@unaffiliated/john-rambo/x-5460353) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:50] <newbie123> methuzla, Set the locale/timezone but it still wont update
[1:50] <newbie123> Rebooted too
[1:51] * svm_invictvs (~patrick@unaffiliated/svminvictvs/x-938456) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:51] * phinxy (~tehhhd@unaffiliated/phinxy) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[1:56] <cnnx> hi
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[2:01] * de-facto (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto) Quit (Quit: See you around.)
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[2:14] * fn2 is now known as fn4
[2:14] * phil42 (~phil42@c-76-125-104-228.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:15] * fn4 (68cf885e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
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[2:25] * dirtyroshi (~dirtyrosh@unaffiliated/dirtyroshi) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[2:31] * fn2 (~fn2@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/fn2) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[2:31] * fn22 is now known as fn2
[2:33] * fn2 (~fn2@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/fn2) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[2:37] * ali1234 (~ajbuxton@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2:43] * RaTTuS|BIG (~RaTTuSBIG@37.152-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[2:43] * RaTTuS|BIG (~RaTTuSBIG@37.152-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:43] * ChanServ sets mode +o RaTTuS|BIG
[2:43] * ChanServ sets mode -o RaTTuS|BIG
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[2:54] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[3:00] * DingoSaar (~hagen@pD9E08579.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:00] * _BigWings_1 is now known as _BigWings_
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[3:08] * atomi (~atomi@71-83-179-177.dhcp.lnbh.ca.charter.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:50] <IanTLopp> anyone made a dashcam out of their pi zero?
[3:50] <newbie123> I am using Midori browser. When I visit youtube I get the mobile version ... How do I change that to full site ?
[3:51] <newbie123> sorry facebook
[3:51] <HrdwrBoB> IanTLopp: that seems like a horrible woftam
[3:51] <HrdwrBoB> but I am certain people have
[3:51] <IanTLopp> woftam?
[3:51] <IanTLopp> and yes, people have http://pidashcam.blogspot.com/
[3:52] <HrdwrBoB> but given you can buy a dashcam that does everything and comes in a moulded case for less than the code of a pi+ camera...
[3:52] <IanTLopp> that's one of many sites
[3:52] <IanTLopp> none of them have the night vision that I can generate out of the picam
[3:52] <HrdwrBoB> none?
[3:53] <IanTLopp> none
[3:53] <IanTLopp> I have a powerful IR floodlight and a NOIR camera :)
[3:53] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:6c7d:1ea6:71b1:933) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:53] * epyon9283 (epyon9283@pool-173-72-50-112.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net) Quit ()
[3:54] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@c-67-163-60-93.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: fatal halt)
[3:54] <IanTLopp> only used it for video and pictures (through octopi), so haven't messed with any of the dash cam side of things...
[3:54] <IanTLopp> but back on the old question, woftam?
[3:55] <HrdwrBoB> waste of time and money
[3:55] * noexcept (~noexcept@2a03:b0c0:3:d0::33:9001) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[3:55] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:56] <IanTLopp> ahh... but then so is a LOT of stuff that uses the PI... BUT not a "woftam" if one learns from it.
[3:56] <HrdwrBoB> oh it's a good project
[3:58] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@c-67-163-60-93.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:58] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:6c7d:1ea6:71b1:933) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:59] <IanTLopp> plus using it with a GPS gives all kinds of useful info to hand over to police in bad events (yes, I'm aware some dashcams have GPS - but I have more control of recorded content with the picam)
[3:59] * sphenxes01 (~sphenxes@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[4:25] <pppingme> anyone have a pi3 they can pastebin /proc/cpuinfo for me?
[4:28] * stiv (~steve@blender/coder/stivs) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[4:28] * snowkidind (~textual@216-15-40-124.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: See Ya Later Alligator!)
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[4:35] <kw> pppingme: pm
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[4:37] <pppingme> hmm... thanks... not what I was expecting to see..
[4:37] <pppingme> it should have an arm8 processor, right?
[4:38] <kw> it's a pi3 model B v1.2
[4:41] <phil42> it does but the software is 32 bit and it shows v7l
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[5:14] * Chinesium (~Chinesium@host31-49-231-222.range31-49.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:18] * sphenxes (~sphenxes@85-90-142-222.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:20] <kw> phil42: I just did a recent install of raspbian to make sure and same results
[5:20] <kw> the board is from 2015 if that makes any difference
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[5:23] * IanTLopp (~IanTLopp@50-255-235-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:24] <IanTLopp> hrmm... how would one connect a raspberry pi to a hotel's wifi that has that login website thing?
[5:24] * Char0n (~Charon@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[5:31] <oq> IanTLopp: figure out what to put in the POST request to login and script the pi to send it
[5:34] * hydrogen (~hydrogen@amarok/developer/hydrogen) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:36] * Phischi (~quassel@2a02:908:2031:4500:d050:6d74:d267:d85b) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:36] <Phischi> morning
[5:36] <IanTLopp> oq, that's only way above anything I understood :) hehe... gimme a minute, I'll start rereading till my brain is less fuzzy
[5:36] <IanTLopp> might help if I get some food - haven't eaten for almost 12 hours now.
[5:37] <Phischi> trying to add a routing in nmtui but I have a hard time to understand what target/prefix and next hop should be?
[5:37] <oq> IanTLopp: a POST request is what your browser sends when you fill out a form on a website and hit the submit button
[5:38] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@c-67-163-60-93.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:38] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[5:38] <IanTLopp> oq, makes sense - might just have to do the mac spoofing again like I did for the xbox one
[5:39] * Sonny_Jim (~pi@CPE-120-147-31-154.cjym1.win.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[5:53] * cybr1d is now known as chee5e
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[6:41] <plum> hiii
[6:42] <plum> my power supply seems to be failing :(
[6:44] <plum> is there a difference between the power supply a Pi B would need vs a Pi 3B?
[6:46] * wildc4rd (~wildc4rd@2a00:23c5:7e8:b300:14cc:71a1:e57d:2372) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:47] * willy23123 (~willy2312@51-171-151-33-dynamic.agg2.lky.bge-rtd.eircom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:48] <CoJaBo> plum: The B will tend to run on lower amp/less stable PSUs than the 3 will, because the 3 uses more power.
[6:48] * divine (~divine@2001:470:8247:1::31) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[6:49] <plum> oooh right on, thank you! i had thought the B was less efficient with power management etc but it makes sense that the 3 would use more power for its hardware
[6:50] * divine (~divine@2001:470:8247:1::31) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:51] <CoJaBo> plum: The original B is less efficient than the b2, but AFAIK, still uses less than the 3.
[6:52] * stivs (~steve@blender/coder/stivs) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:52] <plum> sweeeet. but using a power supply made for the 3 would work fine for the B or a 2B right?
[6:52] * Kwest (~tdf-dev@comforts2.donet.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:52] <CoJaBo> Any PSU will work, as long as it actually meets the required number of amps. One suitable for the 3, will run any other pi too.
[6:53] <CoJaBo> Cheap PSUs sometimes lie about their output tho, so beware. Also, the cable matters, like, a lot.
[6:53] * IanTLopp (~IanTLopp@50-255-235-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:54] <plum> for sure. i think i went cheap with this last one cause it just randomly stopped working
[6:54] * Drzacek (~Drzacek@dslb-084-062-081-207.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:59] <plum> ordered a new one! :D
[7:00] <plum> thank you for the advice CoJaBo
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[7:11] * psby233 (~troy@unaffiliated/psby233) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:11] <IanTLopp> I need something like the lipo powerboost that can provide 2.5A or better
[7:11] <IanTLopp> I've got a good source for 18650 batteries and I want to be able to provide power to a pi 3
[7:12] * plum (~plum@unaffiliated/plum) has joined #raspberrypi
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[7:16] <atomi> rpi3 needs like 1.3A
[7:16] <atomi> but the USB can draw 1.2A
[7:16] <CoJaBo> ?
[7:16] <atomi> so people say to be safe use 2.5A
[7:17] <atomi> like if you add a usb peripherals they can draw up to 1.2A from the usb
[7:18] <atomi> btw the best distro for the rpi is arch linux
[7:18] <atomi> it's the tits
[7:19] * chee5e is now known as MaxPower
[7:19] * sewerrat (~sewerrat@2405:9800:b808:2b64:ada8:4003:4670:5597) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[7:21] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[7:33] <atomi> anyone gotten zoneminder on an rpi3?
[7:33] * MaxPower is now known as Bartholomew_JoJo
[7:33] <atomi> I jsut need it for single cam
[7:33] <atomi> and I was wondering how the performance was
[7:35] * markmcb (~markmcb@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:35] * Bartholomew_JoJo is now known as El_Barto
[7:38] * Crom (~quassel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:39] <Crom> has anyone gotten their windows 10 machine to print to thier rpi3?
[7:39] <CoJaBo> depends on the printer lol
[7:39] * seaport (~seaport@2405:204:5380:ae3e:efd9:11f:48b5:81a3) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:40] <Crom> I'm using a HP1320 via USB
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[7:55] <Sonny_Jim> Crom: Have you installed and configured CUPS?
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[8:23] <georgios> good morning. i used to have a working raspi model B. now it looks dead. power led on. it wont read a bootable SD, not even a blink and while in this state plugging an live ethernet cable does notning
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[8:27] <Sonny_Jim> How do you know the SD is good?
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[8:39] <georgios> i flashed it yesterday
[8:39] <georgios> Sonny_Jim: ^
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[8:41] <Sonny_Jim> Does it read alright when plugged into another computer?
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[8:42] <newbie123> I have configured the locale/timezone but the time displayed is wrong ..How to troubleshoot ?
[8:42] <Sonny_Jim> newbie123: Have you tried restarting ntpd?
[8:43] <newbie123> Sonny_Jim, How do I do that ?
[8:43] <Sonny_Jim> sudo service ntpd restart
[8:44] <newbie123> Sonny_Jim, # service ntpd restart
[8:44] <newbie123> Failed to restart ntpd.service: Unit ntpd.service failed to load: No such file or directory.
[8:45] <Sonny_Jim> sorry, should be ntp, not ntpd
[8:45] <newbie123> Sonny_Jim, Done but the time is still wrong
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[8:47] <mlelstv> ntp won't set the time immediately
[8:47] <mlelstv> what does 'ntpq -p' say ?
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[8:48] <mlelstv> also, was ntpd started with -g option?
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[8:48] <newbie123> mlelstv,https://paste2.org/gCYEYY9D
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[8:49] <georgios> Sonny_Jim: yes
[8:49] <Sonny_Jim> georgios: Since you've tried plugging it into the Pi?
[8:51] <mlelstv> newbie, says that ntp is running fine
[8:51] <newbie123> mlelstv, But the time is wrong
[8:52] <mlelstv> how wrong?
[8:52] <Sonny_Jim> What does cat /etc/localtime say?
[8:52] <Sonny_Jim> Does it have the correct timezone?
[8:52] <HrdwrBoB> �?@e�A�BECcD.�EC~FKG#`G��H�I� J�uK�fL�WMHN9Ow*PpUQ`FRP7S@(T0U |�~}o~rQ���
[8:52] <HrdwrBoB> :P
[8:52] <HrdwrBoB> # file /etc/localtime
[8:52] <HrdwrBoB> /etc/localtime: timezone data
[8:52] <newbie123> Sonny_Jim, cat /etc/localtime
[8:52] <newbie123> TZif2UTCTZif2UTC
[8:53] <Sonny_Jim> Odd, mine lists the timezone on the second line
[8:53] <HrdwrBoB> # zdump /etc/localtime
[8:53] <HrdwrBoB> /etc/localtime Wed Apr 26 16:53:36 2017 EST
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[8:54] <Sonny_Jim> TZif2UTCTZif2UTC
[8:54] <Sonny_Jim> UTC0
[8:54] <newbie123> mlelstv, Its 12:20 PM here but the clock shows 6:64
[8:54] <mlelstv> /etc/localtime is either a symlink or a copy of a binary file. Using zdump to display it is fine :)
[8:54] <Sonny_Jim> 6:64??
[8:54] <Sonny_Jim> That's.... interesting?
[8:54] <mlelstv> 6:64 ? :)
[8:54] <mlelstv> probably 6:54
[8:54] <newbie123> Sonny_Jim, Sorry 6:54
[8:54] <mlelstv> 6:54 is UTC time
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[8:55] <mlelstv> where are you that it's 12:20 ?
[8:55] <Sonny_Jim> Odd that isn't not a half hour offset
[8:55] <newbie123> mlelstv, India
[8:55] <Sonny_Jim> Sure it's not 12:25?
[8:55] <mlelstv> the clock probably says 06:55 UTC
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[8:57] <mlelstv> you need to set the timezone to e.g. Asia/Calcutta
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[8:57] <mlelstv> unsure about debian, but /etc/localtime is usually a symlink
[8:58] <mlelstv> sudo ln -fs /usr/share/zoneinfo/Asia/Calcutta /etc/localtime
[8:58] <mlelstv> you can probably also use raspi-config
[8:59] <newbie123> mlelstv, I went to menu> preferences >Raspberry Pi COnfiguration and set the time zone to Asia/Kolkata
[8:59] <mlelstv> or use dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
[8:59] <mlelstv> can you verify the symlink?
[8:59] <mlelstv> ls -l /etc/localtime
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[9:00] <newbie123> mlelstv, # ls -l /etc/localtime
[9:00] <newbie123> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 118 Apr 10 09:12 /etc/localtime
[9:00] <Sonny_Jim> Odd
[9:00] <mlelstv> odd, because it didn't change.
[9:00] <Sonny_Jim> Same as mine
[9:00] <Sonny_Jim> Like you say, really should be a symlink
[9:01] <Sonny_Jim> Wonder if there was an update that hosed it
[9:01] <mlelstv> some distributions copy file instead of linking it :-/
[9:01] <mlelstv> I'm not that familiar with debian
[9:01] <mlelstv> ok. bbl
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[9:02] <Sonny_Jim> It seems Raspbian copies it
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[9:02] <mlelstv> so just copy the right file.
[9:03] <IanTLopp> anyone familiar with a battery pack or pcb for lipo batteries that can output 2.5A for the pi3?
[9:03] <Sonny_Jim> Just ran raspi-config, /etc/timezone is not a symlink and contains a string, rather than being a binary file
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[9:31] <georgios> Sonny_Jim: i plug the SD and then power
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[9:33] <georgios> would you suggest the opposite? by the way i just recreated the SD, the one that has always worked. the pc sees it fine
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[9:46] <georgios> Sonny_Jim: no luck
[9:46] <Sonny_Jim> Is the Pi plugged into a monitor?
[9:47] <georgios> right now yes. previously to a 2A psu. this monitor has a supernatural hub. it runs stuff the pc cannot!
[9:48] <georgios> but why not try anothrer 2A psu
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[9:50] <georgios> nowhich failed too....
[9:50] <georgios> which*
[9:50] <Sonny_Jim> So does anything get displayed on the monitor?
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[9:51] <georgios> oh yes... the monitor
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[9:57] <dn`> I’m new to working with the PI; I want to measure a 0-12V analog signal, so far I figured out the PI has only digital Pins, but there are ADC boards - to measure analog signales. So far I didn’t find any board that accepts 0-12V - anyone knows a board for that range?
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[9:59] <Sonny_Jim> Get a multimeter with serial output, would be one way
[9:59] <HerculeP> dn`, two resistors can translate 0..12V to any lower range, eg 0..5V
[9:59] <Sonny_Jim> Do you need to measure the signal or just need to know that it's there?
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[10:00] <dn`> Sonny_Jim: measure, it’s from a PSU - the range indicates the power draw of the PSU
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[10:00] <dn`> HerculeP: soldering .. hmmm;) that’s also my feeling that I can’t avoid that;-)
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[10:01] * HerculeP shrugs
[10:02] <Sonny_Jim> Soldering isn't that hard, but if you really are against it, you can use breadboard or screw terminals
[10:02] <georgios> Sonny_Jim: no monitor
[10:03] <georgios> a new way to die?
[10:03] <dn`> ;-) I just never did it. and I hoped for a tiny solution, but I guess it wouldn’t be hard to get a PCB with the resistors on it if really needed
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[10:16] <Sonny_Jim> HerculeP: Wouldn't that range need to be 0-3.3v ?
[10:16] <Sonny_Jim> actually depends on the ADC board I suppose
[10:16] <HerculeP> depends
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[10:17] <HerculeP> thats why I said "eg"
[10:17] <HerculeP> arduinos are happy with 5v
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[10:17] <HerculeP> most adc too
[10:18] * Sonny_Jim nods
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[10:21] <gordonDrogon> dn`, use a resistor divider to feed the signal from the PSU into a 10-bit ADC which the Pi can talk to.
[10:21] <gordonDrogon> or find a DAC that will take a 12v reference voltage.
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[10:23] <dn`> that’s what I hoped for - but it seems I can’t find one that takes 12V :/
[10:25] <gordonDrogon> if it's a good PSU, then measuring amps would be a better way to measure power - the voltage ought to be quite stable.
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[10:27] <HerculeP> ^^
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[10:33] <ams__> I notice on my raspbian install /etc/machine-id is getting generated on each start. This messed up my journald logs. Anyone experienced this?
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[10:39] <gordonDrogon> I know little of this mechanism, but have just had a poke about - it seems its created at boot time, by dbus, but it's not overwritten once it's generated the very first time - at least that's the intention - dbus-uuidgen creates (once) /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
[10:39] <gordonDrogon> and something copies this to /etc/machine-id
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[10:40] <gordonDrogon> I just rebooted a Pi runing jessie and it's remained the same over the reboot.
[10:40] <gordonDrogon> this is raspbian jessie without systemd.
[10:40] <gordonDrogon> so who knows...
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[10:46] <Sonny_Jim> Sweet. Just scored a free Gameboy Colour from the hard rubbish
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[10:49] <ams__> gordonDrogon: i'm using systemd, preumably you're using a modified raspbian to not have systemd?
[10:50] <ams__> I tracked down the code that causes me the trouble - https://github.com/terralinux/systemd/blob/master/src/machine-id-setup.c#L163
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[10:56] <gordonDrogon> ams__, I just removed systemd using stuff online. Right - so systemd creates it's own machine-id and makes /etc/machine-id a bind-mount over it. I'd suggest that systemd's actions are inconsistend with the old dbus method, but hey ...
[10:57] <ams__> gordonDrogon: fair enough, i'm trying to keep to stock raspbian to keep my life simple :-)
[10:57] <gordonDrogon> I'm trying to keep things the same way I've used them for the past 20 years to keep my life simple :-)
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[11:01] <Sonny_Jim> systemd is from the same guy who gave the world Pulseaudio
[11:01] <Sonny_Jim> Seems he has the faecal touch
[11:02] <ams__> i didn't want to kick off this boring debate again, just wanted help with raspbian ;)
[11:02] <Draylor> :) mentioning anything systemd related has that effect
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[11:03] <Draylor> so much of what it does is just evil/stupid/wrong to a traditional unix mindset
[11:03] <Sonny_Jim> 'Hey, my toaster appears to want to also fry my eggs?'
[11:03] <gordonDrogon> Sonny_Jim, oh no - talky toaster again ...
[11:03] <Sonny_Jim> heh
[11:03] <Draylor> which often feels more like "my toaster wants my social security number so it can file the relevant paperwork just incase it is ever used to fry ostrich eggs"
[11:04] <gordonDrogon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec
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[11:58] <password4> yo
[11:58] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@bur64-4-78-199-90-154.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:59] <password4> So I wondering if anyone have any insight to the latency on the rpi of usb vs spi. In my opinion SPI should have much much lower latency than the USB on the rpi3? or doe the SPI on rpi actually have some latency?
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[12:06] <Sonny_Jim> password4: What are you doing that requires minimal latency?
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[12:08] <password4> CAN communication
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[12:13] <password4> controlling large saws on trollies
[12:15] * XpineX (~xpinex@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:17] * ShorTie Thinkz, lower latency == arduino
[12:17] * Cryterion (~cryterion@unaffiliated/cryterion) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[12:18] <Sonny_Jim> Yeah I'm with ShorTie
[12:18] <gordonDrogon> why not simply measure it?
[12:18] <Sonny_Jim> Use an MCU
[12:19] <Sonny_Jim> The Pi GPIO isn't really very good at low latency, due to the Linux kernel being in the way
[12:19] <gordonDrogon> I've measured the kernel SPI driver. However there are other issues ... ^
[12:19] <password4> my boss don't think so , so i just do whatever he decides and take no responsibility
[12:19] <Sonny_Jim> But you can always use an MCU for the low latency stuff, then transfer whatever data you want to and from the Pi
[12:19] <gordonDrogon> people are using SPI based CAN interfaces on the Pi for car monitoring though.
[12:20] <Sonny_Jim> gordonDrogon: Doesn't that involve using an external chipset though?
[12:20] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:6d81:e0a1:68a4:a9fd) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:21] <gordonDrogon> Sure.
[12:22] <password4> they also think a 1ms loop is fast
[12:22] <gordonDrogon> you want to talk CAN, use a CAN interface chip.
[12:22] <password4> gordonDrogon: sure
[12:22] <password4> there are can ic for usb and spi
[12:22] <gordonDrogon> this guy makes lots: http://skpang.co.uk/catalog/
[12:23] <password4> were considering switching to his
[12:23] <gordonDrogon> and loop/PLC type industrual control stuff is going to be with us for a few decades more.
[12:23] <gordonDrogon> I've met Sukin a few times. Seems a decent bloke.
[12:24] <gordonDrogon> I'm currently making a "PLC" type thing for a client using ATmegas (arduino for protptype) and a Pi in the middle of it all.
[12:24] <password4> we might make a board similar to his , but with more can interfaces
[12:25] <gordonDrogon> ask him to make it for you ...
[12:25] <Sonny_Jim> TBH, I'd be nervous that your boss thinks that using Pis in an industrial situation is a good idea
[12:25] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:6d81:e0a1:68a4:a9fd) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:25] <password4> imho i would just drop in a microchip , or switch to a esp32-wroom
[12:26] <password4> but aparently people who studied electronics know less than people who studied mechanical engineering
[12:26] <Sonny_Jim> Quite
[12:27] <password4> which why i need a better jub
[12:28] <password4> butanyway
[12:28] <password4> some people , differnt than the aforementioned ones , thinks usb has lower latency than spi , which i think is absurd.
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[12:28] <password4> do anyone haev any insight?
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[12:30] * batch_ is now known as batch
[12:30] <password4> gordonDrogon: have you tested the pican pi hat?
[12:34] <gordonDrogon> I have no interested in CAN, so no.
[12:35] <password4> ok doki
[12:35] <password4> atleast its much cheaper than the 130 euro usb-can dongle we have
[12:38] <Sonny_Jim> Been meaning to pick up one of those cheapo Car CAN bluetooth thingys
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[12:49] <Jugurtha> Hi.. I'm looking for 3G/4G options for the Raspberry PI. Any recommendations? I've seen this: http://elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals#USB_3G_Dongles.
[12:49] <Jugurtha> I'm looking for something that works (reliable, with the least steps to get it working).
[12:49] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:6d81:e0a1:68a4:a9fd) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:49] <Jugurtha> fewest* steps.
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[12:56] <Sonny_Jim> 3G dongles, if their supported, are pretty easy to get working
[12:56] <gordonDrogon> I never found one that didn't work via the serial/ppp interface.
[12:57] <gordonDrogon> on other Linux platforms - not tried it on a Pi, but no reason it shouldn't work.
[12:58] <Jugurtha> Sonny_Jim, gordonDrogon: The smaller the better, but apparently it's only the Huawei 173 and that kind of huge dongle that are on the market.
[12:59] <Jugurtha> Sonny_Jim, gordonDrogon: Are there any tiny ones?
[12:59] <gordonDrogon> one I used was about the size of a usb 'thumb' drive.
[12:59] <gordonDrogon> another was a mini pcie thing, but that obviously won't work on the Pi.
[13:00] <gordonDrogon> it's been a few years since I did that stuff though - I was involved in a project to build very mobile platforms with multiple 3G modems
[13:01] <gordonDrogon> the issue back then was mode-switching USB devices - some of the dongles had on-board flash to hold the drivers for windows, etc.
[13:01] <gordonDrogon> I don't think that's an issue these days.
[13:04] <Jugurtha> gordonDrogon: Thanks. It appears I must resign myself to accept the form factor as it is.
[13:07] <clever> gordonDrogon: the 3g modem ive used claims to be a cdrom drive when you plug it in
[13:07] <clever> gordonDrogon: but if you try to eject the cd in that drive, it disconnects, then re-connects claiming to be a serial port, and then wvdial and ppp like you said
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[13:07] <clever> i think i had to dial #777
[13:09] <Jugurtha> clever: If I recall correctly, the Huawei 173 does that (it has the drivers in the "virtual CDrom").
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[13:09] <clever> yep
[13:09] <clever> and the autorun.inf will try to install them
[13:09] <Jugurtha> clever: It even has drivers for linux if I'm not misaken (with a .sh script for install).
[13:09] <clever> mine didnt
[13:10] <clever> though mine also has a micro-sdcard reader in it
[13:10] <gordonDrogon> I've got one here with a slot for a �SD card too.
[13:10] * smdeep (~smdeep@2405:204:4401:9bea:7425:6fb1:3ca:caf9) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:10] <clever> [3083118.896956] scsi 7:0:0:0: CD-ROM Novatel Mass Storage 1.00 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
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[13:11] <clever> AUT_0001.EXE, AUTORUN.INF, BEL_0003.ICO, CARRIER.EXE
[13:12] <clever> only 4 files, and i cant seem to mount it for some odd reason
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[13:18] <mfa298> some of the various 3G dongles there's an AT command to set what mode they boot into. My E1550 dongle is now set to go straight to modem+sd card and skip the whole cd drive + modeswtitch thing.
[13:19] <clever> ah, handy
[13:19] <clever> i just made a udev rule to eject the cd every time it appeared
[13:20] <mfa298> some of the newer dongles just emulate a network interface and handle the ppp on the dongle itself. which can make some things easier but might mean the dongle adds a nat layer
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[13:32] <gordonDrogon> wlan mode or whatever - not to be confused with wlan wi-fi. I never did get that to work.
[13:33] <gordonDrogon> wvdial & ppp always seemed to "just work" for me. might be a bit old skool though...
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[13:48] <mfa298> my newer E3231 (hopefully the right numbers in the right order) uses cdc_ether and appears as eth1 on my pi3
[13:48] <mfa298> control of the dongle is done via a web browser
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[14:09] <pokmo> hi
[14:10] <pokmo> is it a good idea to setup a rpi as a multi-camera DVR?
[14:10] <Sonny_Jim> Security cameras?
[14:10] * hydrogen (~hydrogen@amarok/developer/hydrogen) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:10] <pokmo> Sonny_Jim, yeah
[14:11] <Sonny_Jim> Maybe, depends on how many cameras, their resolution and how many frames per second you want
[14:11] <pokmo> i can't seem to find any previous project
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[14:12] <pokmo> Sonny_Jim, is the process resource intensive?
[14:12] <Sonny_Jim> One of the problems you'll find is that the I/O speeds aren't great, hence why I said you'll need to figure out how much data is going to be coming in
[14:13] <Sonny_Jim> Also, you'll need to figure out how long you want to store the images for before deleting, that coupled with the aforementioned data will tell you how much hard drive space you'll need
[14:13] <pokmo> Sonny_Jim, i was hoping some off the shelf software could manage it
[14:13] <Sonny_Jim> off the shelf software won't calculate any of what I just mentioned
[14:14] * ktsamis (ktsamis@nat/novell/x-rkjnhxrzvuqwjgxm) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:14] <Sonny_Jim> You'll still have to do that yourself, even if it's back of a napkin guesses
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[14:15] <Sonny_Jim> As for what software you can use, motion is one option:
[14:15] <Sonny_Jim> https://github.com/Motion-Project/motion
[14:18] * ktsamis (ktsamis@nat/novell/x-jfiqqloquljbpaqj) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:18] <pokmo> ah, i was looking at zoneminder
[14:19] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:6d81:e0a1:68a4:a9fd) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:19] <Sonny_Jim> Bear in mind that 20-30Mb/s seems to be the maximum a Pi can handle when transferring the data over USB
[14:19] * stivs is now known as stiv
[14:19] <pokmo> Sonny_Jim, i thought motion might need too much cpu power since it'd need to constantly analyse pictures
[14:19] <Sonny_Jim> TBF, it's not vey processor intensive
[14:20] <Sonny_Jim> It doesn't analyse or try to work out what things are, just XORs two images together from what I gather
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[14:20] <Sonny_Jim> Also, another thing to note, is that the USB bandwidth is shared with the onboard ethernet port
[14:21] <Sonny_Jim> Like I said, it all boils down to how many cameras, their resolution, how often you grab the images
[14:21] <pokmo> right. i was hoping just 2 cameras
[14:21] <pokmo> 780p
[14:21] <Sonny_Jim> Should be fine, as long as you aren't trying to do 100 f.p.s or something silly
[14:22] <Sonny_Jim> Zoneminder looks good
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[14:23] <Sonny_Jim> From what I read motion detection should work if it's only 2 cameras
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[14:25] <pokmo> right
[14:25] <pokmo> i'll give that a shot
[14:25] <pokmo> thanks
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[14:25] <Sonny_Jim> np
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[14:25] <Sonny_Jim> Mushroom, mushroom!
[14:25] <nacelle> I second that
[14:25] <nacelle> motion rocks
[14:25] <nacelle> zoneminder... not so much last I used it
[14:26] <Sonny_Jim> Really? What was the issue with it?
[14:26] <nacelle> motion worked, zoneminder definitely didnt
[14:26] <Sonny_Jim> Looks better featured for zoneminder
[14:26] <pokmo> hmm
[14:26] <Sonny_Jim> Err
[14:26] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[14:26] <Sonny_Jim> Looks better featured for CCTV stuff
[14:26] <pokmo> nacelle, was it on a rpi?
[14:26] <nacelle> it had better features, but they were not coded so well
[14:26] * Sonny_Jim nods
[14:26] <nacelle> pokmo: no, but host platform doesnt matter so much
[14:27] <nacelle> motion has been around forever too :-)
[14:27] * brokaw (~textual@216-188-254-66.dyn.grandenetworks.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:27] <nacelle> I ran a 4 camera motion box at my last house
[14:27] <nacelle> I should get that going again
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[14:33] <pokmo> cool
[14:33] <pokmo> i'll go for motion then
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[14:34] * Jugurtha1 is now known as Jugurtha
[14:39] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:49] <JohnnyBitcoin> is it possible to import a QEMU VM to a raspberry pi?
[14:54] <HrdwrBoB> tldr no
[14:54] <HrdwrBoB> bonus round: that's a terrible idea
[14:54] * elsevero (~elsevero@ has joined #raspberrypi
[14:55] <mirwin> anyone know a way to get either sata or usb 3.0 onto the pi or am i just needing to get a banana pi?
[14:56] <oq> assuming usb 2.0 -> sata adaptors don't count?
[14:56] <BurtyB> only way sata really fits on a Pi is via USB2
[14:56] * Kwest (~tdf-dev@comforts2.donet.ru) Quit (Quit: This conversation is over, cya!)
[14:56] <mirwin> nah, looking for full speed
[14:57] <mirwin> i wouldn't mind if it involved extra parts and work. i just can't really find a way to do it and haven't seen where anyone else has done it
[14:57] <oq> it is utterly impossible
[14:57] <HrdwrBoB> mirwin: if you need sata, you need different hardware
[14:57] <oq> the soc just doesn't support it
[14:57] <HrdwrBoB> also if you want speed, you really need different hardware
[14:58] <oq> mirwin: is this for a low powered server?
[14:58] <HrdwrBoB> first, detail your requirements
[14:58] <HrdwrBoB> second, buy hardware
[14:58] <mirwin> yea, ik it isn't the ideal hardware. it was a spur of the moment idea and i can buy pi's locally
[14:59] <Sonny_Jim> Pi's a good for some things, fast file servers isn't one of them
[14:59] * p71_ (~chatzilla@75-128-224-180.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:59] <mirwin> data recovery client, runs a pr firm, drive was a nas before but it was just hella fucked up (western digital), so the idea of using the pi as a file server came to mind as a cheap, on the go nas
[15:00] <Sonny_Jim> If you want a NAS, buy a NAS ;)
[15:00] <mirwin> it isn't for me
[15:00] * p71 (~chatzilla@75-128-224-180.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:00] * p71_ is now known as p71
[15:00] <Sonny_Jim> If they work in PR, they can probably afford more than $30
[15:01] <mirwin> ofc
[15:02] <mirwin> just seemed like an interesting portable nas idea. ik it wouldn't be very fast at all
[15:03] <oq> mirwin: intel nuc?
[15:03] <mirwin> i did see that option, but it just wasn't in store
[15:03] <mirwin> only edisons at micro center
[15:04] <oq> tried amazon?
[15:04] <mirwin> ofc. i just wanted to return the stuff today or tomorrow morning
[15:04] * grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[15:05] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[15:05] <mirwin> better, long term solutions will be made ofc, but we're supposed to talk to him about hosting and an SLA when i drop off the data, so it was just kind of a showy thing.
[15:05] * grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:39] <gordonDrogon> mirwin, FYI We keep it family friendly here. Please (re) read the channel rules: https://goo.gl/h5qPhz
[15:39] <mirwin> sorry
[15:40] <gordonDrogon> ok.
[15:41] <mirwin> i should set up an autoreplace like my friend did. few people got me in bad habits
[15:41] * jkridner (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:41] * Telvana (~digits@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:41] <polprog> mirwin has actually concerned an interesting problem. i think it would be possible if gpio could act as some PCI bus
[15:41] * colints (~fn-colint@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[15:42] <gordonDrogon> the GPIO can be bit-banged at a high enough speed to display live VGA video, however the code would need to be written in the GPU not the ARM.
[15:42] * justiceBEAVER (~fittarfra@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:42] * AndrewAlexMac (~andrewale@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[15:43] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-62-245-104-215.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:43] <shiftplusone> Hm? Doesn't it already do that? Except using DPI rather than just bit-banging?
[15:43] * justiceBEAVER (~fittarfra@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:e61d:2dff:fe4c:b11) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:44] <gordonDrogon> I'm thinking Gerts VGA hack board...
[15:44] * AndrewAlexMac (~andrewale@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:44] <gordonDrogon> I was under the impression that was all done in the GPU thingy.
[15:44] * willy23123 (~willy2312@51-171-151-33-dynamic.agg2.lky.bge-rtd.eircom.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[15:45] <gordonDrogon> but yes, harnessing the DPI & CSI ports for high speed output and input, but again ... GPUland ...
[15:45] * colints (~fn-colint@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:46] <polprog> bit banging would be hard and slow, after all VGS is less than 100khz. But the gpio header has, for example, two harware i2c s
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> the I2C interfaces normally run at 100Khz clock.
[15:47] <shiftplusone> DPI doesn't require GPU, there are example drivers available and it should be the same throughput.
[15:47] <gordonDrogon> I have tried to run them up to 1Mb/sec - and it failed - however proper termination, etc. might work, however - 1Mb/sec ...
[15:47] * Telvana (~digits@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:47] <polprog> im looking at the PCI spec. it's also some paralell data, as well as SPI and JTAG.
[15:47] <gordonDrogon> shiftplusone, ah, ok. so it just needs someone to write a SATA type driver for it (if it's bi-directional?) and build the hardware and we're off ...
[15:48] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-62-245-104-215.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[15:49] <shiftplusone> someone tried to write an ide driver, but that didn't get far. I don't expect SATA to be possible without any extra hardware in between.
[15:50] * spybert (~spybert@c-50-173-239-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:50] <gordonDrogon> you could do IDE over the GPIO pins, but you're back to the bad old days of PIO before the DMA drivers were created...
[15:51] * sgflt (~sgflt@p54B2129F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:52] <gordonDrogon> a pcie interface might be possible with the high-speed bi-directional serial interface.
[15:52] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-62-245-104-215.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:57] <polprog> even pcie x1 would allow for more connectivity
[15:57] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-62-245-104-215.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[15:57] * polprog starts to look for older SBCs with pci/pcie and other cool stuff
[16:00] * mirwin (~mirwin@unaffiliated/mirwin) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[16:01] * Abraham_Slam (~Abraham_S@relhead.sbs.umass.edu) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:01] <oq> wouldn't a SBC with a pcie slot not make it a single board computer?
[16:02] <polprog> oq: only when it's empty
[16:02] <polprog> :P
[16:03] * IT_Sean rolls his eyes
[16:03] <polprog> some compact arm board with a hell lot of connectors would make a nice toy for me
[16:03] * |gonzo| (~|gonzo|@unaffiliated/gonzo/x-2867351) Quit (Quit: quit)
[16:04] <oq> just get a x86 mini-itx motherboard
[16:05] <polprog> i probably will revive an old intel atom board in the near future, it's the smallest form factor one i think
[16:05] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:9c15:48b9:c793:e5bc) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:09] <oq> some atoms were really bad
[16:10] * tachoknight__ (~tachoknig@205-178-20-7.c3-0.mart-ubr1.chi-mart.il.cable.rcn.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:11] <polprog> it will probably end as a LAN backup server, with samba and stuff.
[16:12] <polprog> i remember it had a raid conrtroller, unused
[16:12] <oq> you're describing a nas
[16:12] <oq> hardware raid controllers are bad news
[16:12] <oq> it's recommended you use software raid solutions such as mdadm or zfs nowadays
[16:13] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@2001:985:5982:1:ed6c:2393:5ee2:276f) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:14] <polprog> i was "designed" some time ago. it didnt work so we were just making manual copies from one disk to another.
[16:14] * patambrosio (~patambros@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[16:14] <polprog> it is a kind of nas.
[16:14] <oq> manual copies :O
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[16:15] <polprog> yes it was a fail. But we keep family photos there
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[16:16] <polprog> last time i used it was when i needed a paralell port connection, a year ago
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[16:22] <KevinCarbonara> I was going to build an Unraid server a while back so I could have a NAS + run servers through docker, but now I'm looking at just getting a Synology and a Raspberry pi
[16:22] <oq> synology make decent products, albeit pricey
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[16:36] * CrazEd is now known as Guest18683
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[16:46] <KevinCarbonara> Yeah, I don't necessarily mind the cash, but I still haven't bought anything because I don't want to regret my purchase
[16:47] <oq> the only issue synology has is the cpus they do put in them are 2013 tech
[16:47] <KevinCarbonara> the appeal of an Unraid server was an all-in-one box. If I buy a Synology I'll still need a Linux server in addition to that, but I think I can get by with a raspberry pi. If my needs change in the future, I may regret it
[16:47] <KevinCarbonara> Their 2016es are pretty good
[16:48] <oq> the cpus inside are still ancient tech though
[16:48] <oq> last year there was a bit of a thing when it was found out that intels c2000 line was breaking all over, but apparently that's fixed in new synology boxes they sell even if its the same cpu
[16:49] <KevinCarbonara> A lot of their NAS use atom processors, but some of their more expensive ones don't. Trying to find one now
[16:51] <KevinCarbonara> Well, here's one with a Celeron. Not sure if that's an improvement
[16:52] <KevinCarbonara> Oh, here's one, DS916+. It's got a pentium quad core
[16:52] * alexandre9099 (~alexandre@gateway/tor-sasl/alexandre9099) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[16:54] * methuzla (~methuzla@dsl254-017-117.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:54] <oq> QNAP also make decent nas if you want more options
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[17:02] <KevinCarbonara> I might. I honestly don't know enough to make an informed decision
[17:03] <oq> KevinCarbonara: try asking the guys at /r/homelab
[17:05] <oq> although they do tend to focus on all buying the same stuff like uniquiti access points and used r710's
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[17:07] <Sonny_Jim> Ok, so I ran out of space on my Pi3 to compile buildroot, so I'm like 'Ok, I'll just use my USB disk, that's got plenty of space left on it'
[17:08] * DingoSaar (~hagen@pD9E0872E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:08] <Sonny_Jim> I'm merrily compiling away, then it starts erroring. Turns out trying to compile on a NTFS filesystem is just a headache due to permissions
[17:08] <oq> Sonny_Jim: ntfs support also sucks in general on linux
[17:09] <Sonny_Jim> So, my 'solution' was to write a load of zeros to a 5gig file on the NTFS filesystem, format it as a linux filesystem, then mount the image as a drive via loopback
[17:09] <Sonny_Jim> I feel dirty
[17:09] <shiftplusone> you could cheat and create an ext-formatted image file.... what you just said.
[17:09] <Sonny_Jim> lol
[17:09] <Sonny_Jim> Doing that just makes me feel icky, but weirdly the performance seems alright
[17:09] * DingoSaar (~hagen@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:09] <Sonny_Jim> It's at least on par with the straight NTFS performance
[17:10] <polprog> lol, i'm stealing that solution for later :D
[17:10] <Sonny_Jim> If you can figure out a quicker way of making a blank file, that would be great
[17:10] <shiftplusone> It's not that dirty.
[17:10] <shiftplusone> truncate -s 16G file.img
[17:10] <Sonny_Jim> beautiful, could have done with knowing that last night
[17:11] * jkridner|pd (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:11] <Sonny_Jim> I went with dd if=/dev/zero of=/foo.img bs=1M count=5000
[17:11] * AetherOli (560c0ec2@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[17:11] <shiftplusone> heh
[17:12] <polprog> it's not anything bad
[17:12] <polprog> dd works as well
[17:12] <Sonny_Jim> To make things even more perverse, I'm using buildroot on the Pi3 to generate MIPSEL binaries for my router
[17:12] <Sonny_Jim> It's just ewww but it works
[17:13] * Sonny_Jim promise himself to setup a 'proper' linux box at some point
[17:14] <Sonny_Jim> TBH, it's a testament to the Pi that I've got away without having to setup an x86 Linux box
[17:14] * mike_t (~mike@ has joined #raspberrypi
[17:14] * Sonny_Jim goes to read the man page for truncate
[17:14] * jkridner (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:14] <shiftplusone> I've spent the weekend setting up a linux box with LVM storage for virtual machines with GPU passthrough for windows and all that. No more dual booting, yay.
[17:14] * aguz (uid169722@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibtbwtcobqgocvjj) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:15] <AetherOli> I've been trying to setup MQTT on my Pi Model B, and it worked but I keep having issues... If I turn it off without issuing shutdown the SD card always corrupts and sometimes I get sudo command not found even on a clean install
[17:15] <Sonny_Jim> Never been a big fan of VMs. I see them being misused so much
[17:15] <shiftplusone> Misused how?
[17:15] <Sonny_Jim> AetherOli: Suspect power supply or cable. Is there a monitor plugged into it?
[17:16] <AetherOli> Sonny_Jim: No, only thing plugged in is a usb wifi adapter
[17:16] <petn-randall> I've still got a Windows 98 VM. I'm running real player in there, one day it'll be finished buffering.
[17:16] <Sonny_Jim> shiftplusone: Oh like people moaning that the VM doesn't run a game very quickly, or expecting a VM to automagically be more secure
[17:16] <oq> if you passthrough your gpu a vm can run a game just as quickly
[17:16] <AetherOli> Sonny_Jim: If its the cable or power supply, will that be because of current limitations?
[17:16] <Sonny_Jim> I mean, for deployment reasons, sure, knock yourself out. But in a home situation, using a VM isn't that useful (at least to me)
[17:16] * newbie123 (~john_ramb@unaffiliated/john-rambo/x-5460353) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:17] <Sonny_Jim> AetherOli: PSU problems are historically a big cause of SD corruption. Do you see the lightning bolt a lot?
[17:17] <oq> I virtualise my router and my nas and other server bits at home so I can run it all from one machine
[17:17] <newbie123> Is it possible to use livestreamer with omxplayer ?
[17:17] <shiftplusone> Sonny_Jim: they've come a long way. With libvirt, I am not seeing any different between a VM and actually booting into the system.
[17:17] <Sonny_Jim> oq: But can't you do that anyway without having a VM in the way?
[17:18] <Sonny_Jim> I mean, why run separate OSs on the same machine?
[17:18] <oq> what?
[17:18] <shiftplusone> easier to migrate and manager. My main PC ends up having all kinds of cruft on it.
[17:18] <AetherOli> Sonny_Jim: Not sure, haven't been looking for it and now I run it headerless
[17:18] <oq> they are all running simultaneously
[17:18] <shiftplusone> *manage
[17:18] <oq> the router os is specialised software designed to route things
[17:19] * jkridner (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:19] <oq> same with my nas
[17:19] <Sonny_Jim> Isn't it just the same kernel though?
[17:19] <oq> no
[17:19] * Sonny_Jim shrugs
[17:19] <oq> one is freebsd one is linux lol
[17:19] <Sonny_Jim> Maybe one day I'll jump on the VM train, right now I can't see any use for it apart from 'woo shiny'
[17:20] <oq> you should try bare metal Sonny_Jim
[17:20] <Sonny_Jim> I used to
[17:20] <Sonny_Jim> Did a bit of coding for an M6809
[17:21] <Sonny_Jim> Maybe that's why I find VMs so wasteful lol
[17:21] <AetherOli> Sonny_Jim: So its probably kaput? I remember having this same issue a few years ago tbh with different power supplies etc
[17:21] <shiftplusone> Fair enough. I feel like containers are "woo shiny" at the moment, but think they will be useful to get familiar with at some point.
[17:22] <oq> Sonny_Jim: so if you wanted to try out a new os you would buy another box?
[17:22] <Sonny_Jim> (Garth from Waynes World Voice) I fear change
[17:22] * jkridner|pd (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[17:22] <Sonny_Jim> oq: I never really feel the need to 'try out' another OS. I have my Win10 laptop for laptop'y stuff, the Pi does the rest
[17:22] <newbie123> When I try to watch Youtubr videos under Kodi it gives me soe quota error
[17:23] <Sonny_Jim> newbie123: The actual error message would be helpful
[17:23] <shiftplusone> newbie123: I have no idea why you're struggling with this so much. It sounds like something went horribly wrong with your system and you're working around some other unerlying problem.
[17:23] <Sonny_Jim> But Youtube on a Pi is always a bit painful
[17:23] <Sonny_Jim> Oh is this the 'Kodi is a black screen' problem from last night?
[17:23] <shiftplusone> youtube on a pi through kodi works though, it fetches the stream directly
[17:24] <methuzla> where's the code for raspi-config? (want to see what it does under the hood)
[17:24] <Sonny_Jim> I've only tried it through the plugin, was a bit slugish. Plus I have one of those fancy TVs where you can just stream directly to it, so I just do that
[17:24] <shiftplusone> I would recommend using libreelec (wow, I wrote libreoffice the first time) if your primary use is kodi.
[17:24] <Sonny_Jim> Yeah can second that recommendation
[17:25] <shiftplusone> methuzla: all the backdoors can be found here https://github.com/RPi-Distro/raspi-config/blob/master/raspi-config
[17:25] <Sonny_Jim> Also RetroPi is good if you want to do emulators and Kodi
[17:25] <shiftplusone> Aye
[17:25] * marcdinkum (~marcdinku@2001:985:5982:1:ed6c:2393:5ee2:276f) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:25] <shiftplusone> although I am liking recalbox quite a bit more now.
[17:26] <newbie123> Sonny_Jim, http://www.google.co.in/url?q=https://www.howtogeek.com/273956/how-to-fix-kodis-youtube-quota-exceeded-problem/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjWytudt8LTAhWFvI8KHRdDDNAQFggTMAA&usg=AFQjCNH8gJ68YMJHi2bPwdi2lmg952NMHw
[17:26] <newbie123> Sonny_Jim, https://www.howtogeek.com/273956/how-to-fix-kodis-youtube-quota-exceeded-problem/
[17:27] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:27] <methuzla> shiftplusone: thanks
[17:27] <shiftplusone> np
[17:29] <newbie123> What is the preferred way of watching Youtube videos on a Pi ? Cant watch it on Chromium or Midori
[17:30] <oq> you don't
[17:30] <Sonny_Jim> I used to just use youtube-dl and omxplayer
[17:30] <methuzla> ^^
[17:31] <Sonny_Jim> Was a bit of a pain, but it worked
[17:31] <oq> just buy an old x86 machine, it'll work 1000x better
[17:31] * agontarek (~agontarek@chippewa-nat.cray.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:31] <methuzla> ^^ or that
[17:31] <newbie123> I am doing the same thing ... Does livestreamer work ?
[17:32] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@bur64-4-78-199-90-154.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] <Sonny_Jim> My flow was like this: Find youtube video on mobile phone, copy the URL, email it to the Pi (yup), download it using youtube-dl then watch with omxplayer
[17:32] <Sonny_Jim> Was pretty painful, but it was mostly for grabbing MST3K episodes to watch whilst I fell asleep
[17:32] <AetherOli> Should I give up on this pi and just get a new one?
[17:33] <Sonny_Jim> Unlikely it's the Pi itself
[17:33] <Sonny_Jim> What model is it?
[17:33] * sunn (~oliver@host86-150-104-120.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:33] <Sonny_Jim> FWIW I had a lot of issues with the 'big boy' SD slot on the Pi1, contacts were flaky
[17:33] <AetherOli> Pi B 256
[17:34] <AetherOli> That could be it then I suppose
[17:34] <Sonny_Jim> You could try wedging a piece of paper between the case and the SD itself, to try and shim it so it makes good contact, but YMMV
[17:34] <Sonny_Jim> A newer Pi3 will be a lot nicer experience, however
[17:34] <Sonny_Jim> Dat built-in wifi, mmmm
[17:34] <shiftplusone> to see if that's the problem, you can try pushing the card down against the board with your thumb while powering it up
[17:34] <AetherOli> Pi Zero W would be powerful enough as an MQTT broker?
[17:34] <Habbie> AetherOli, sure
[17:35] <Habbie> AetherOli, unless you get a -lot- of messages
[17:35] <AetherOli> How about for running OpenHAB?
[17:35] * WARlrus (~freenode@home.mattdyson.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[17:36] <AetherOli> I think that's quite a lot more demanding if I remember
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[17:39] <AetherOli> Thanks for your help, I think I'll just get a Pi Zero W :)
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[17:55] <IanTLopp> anyone know of a controller board like the LiPo Powerboost that can output 2.5A for the Raspi 3?
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[17:56] <IanTLopp> as my father used to say, if you can't do it with a hammer, you're doing it wrong.
[17:56] <IanTLopp> err... wrong channel
[17:56] <IanTLopp> heh
[17:59] * svm_invictvs (~patrick@unaffiliated/svminvictvs/x-938456) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:00] <methuzla> hmmm. so i've been making crepes wrong this whole time. i'll try that hammer trick next time.
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[18:17] <plop6> hi all
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[18:48] <BluesKaj_> howdy, any recommendations for a GUI media player, i like the OMXplayer but cli pasting of long paths is a pita. VLC is hopeless, and kodi stutters
[18:49] * nickd25 (~nickd25@unaffiliated/nickd25) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[18:51] <IT_Sean> ... how is VLC hopeless?
[18:57] <BluesKaj_> IT_Sean, it won't play video...I've used VLC for yrs but none of my settings work in either the video or audio tools/preferences settings
[18:58] <IT_Sean> It is a poor carpenter that blames his tools.
[18:58] <methuzla> use a hammer?
[18:59] * mirwin (~mirwin@unaffiliated/mirwin) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:59] <BluesKaj_> so it's my fault . that vlc settings won't apply .. smaertass answers don't help
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[19:00] <SomeT> hi, I have an urgent question that needs answering, I am trying to install thingbox on my pi3 on a 64GB microsd card, what shall I format the card as first, FAT32?
[19:00] * metawave (~metawave@ has joined #raspberrypi
[19:00] <SomeT> hi, I have an urgent question that needs answering, I am trying to install thingbox on my pi3 on a 64GB microsd card, what shall I format the card as first, FAT32?
[19:00] <SomeT> sorry did not mean to post twice lol
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[19:03] <BluesKaj_> fat32 works SomeT
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[19:05] <SomeT> thanks!
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[19:10] <ams__> AFAIK there's no need to format the card beforehand
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[19:13] <batch> what is thinbox SomeT
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[19:13] <batch> nvm, googlin
[19:16] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:16] <BluesKaj_> ams yeah if you use dd
[19:16] <SomeT> its like samsung smart things hib
[19:16] <SomeT> http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm
[19:16] <SomeT> I tried this it don't work on windows 10
[19:17] <SomeT> anyone know a better tool?
[19:17] * mike_t (~mike@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:17] <SomeT> I need to format this card as it was previously used on a smart phone
[19:17] <SomeT> so its quite full
[19:17] <BluesKaj_> windoes 10 might have rufus , if not install it and try that
[19:17] <batch> yeah rufus ftw
[19:18] <BluesKaj_> formatting fat 32 should do the job
[19:18] * GyroW (~GyroW@d54C29AD0.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:18] <SomeT> nice thanks
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[19:19] <SomeT> MBR or GPT>
[19:19] * GyroW (~GyroW@d54C29AD0.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:19] <SomeT> ?
[19:20] <ShorTie> sdformatter is what i use
[19:21] <SomeT> ah ok
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[19:21] <ShorTie> use the options and resize it
[19:21] <SomeT> what do u mean?
[19:21] <BluesKaj_> no need for those types of tables or partitions on a sdcard on microsd card
[19:21] <BluesKaj_> or a microsd
[19:22] <SomeT> ok
[19:22] <SomeT> I will everything at default in that respect
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[19:25] <EdwardIII> guys the two halves of my keyboard are connected using a 4 pole headphone jack type cable - quite often when i'm typing a '7' gets dropped into the text. this has nothing to do with where i'm hitting it afaik
[19:25] <EdwardIII> any way to tell whether it's interference or is it likely to be a mechanical fault?
[19:26] <gordonDrogon> weird keyboard.
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[19:28] <SomeT> what OS are you using?
[19:28] <SomeT> I would rip the 7 keys out the keyboard completely or reconfigure your OS settings
[19:29] <gordonDrogon> SomeT, did you get it installed? There are fairly comprehensive instructions on the site: http://thethingbox.io/docs/Flash_Pi_image.html
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[19:29] <SomeT> yeah I did
[19:29] <SomeT> but its being weird
[19:29] <SomeT> going to try and boot up on pi3 right now
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[19:29] <IanTLopp> anyone know of a controller board like the lipo powerboost that can output 2.5A for the raspi3?
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[19:33] <EdwardIII> oops wrong channel sorry heh
[19:33] <EdwardIII> i was wondering if anyone had seen a start/restart button that works with one of the bog-standard raspberry pi cases?
[19:33] <EdwardIII> got a pi3
[19:34] <EdwardIII> i can shut it down from software but it's a bit fiddly to unplug and replug it every time i want to turn it on again
[19:34] <IanTLopp> EdwardIII, I just have a power supply with a power switch built in
[19:35] <EdwardIII> that's neat
[19:35] <EdwardIII> although you still have to punch it off and on again right?
[19:35] <EdwardIII> or it has like a 'reset' button?
[19:35] <redrabbit> i guess there's a pin that you can use as a power on switch
[19:35] <IanTLopp> it's toggle
[19:35] <EdwardIII> sounds good. i should look at one of those
[19:35] <EdwardIII> i'm suprised that more people don't mention it - i guess most users just leave their pi on 24/7?
[19:35] <IanTLopp> mine's from canakit
[19:35] <IanTLopp> I guess so
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[19:38] <gordonDrogon> EdwardIII, if you put a push button over one of the I2C pins, then you can write a bash script to check it then shut the pi down, then pushing it again will reboot the Pi.
[19:39] <gordonDrogon> unless you're using I2C that is ...
[19:39] <EdwardIII> i'm not using I2C no
[19:40] <EdwardIII> i don't think so anyway heh - you mean already using the I2C pins for some kind of extension?
[19:42] * cnnx (~cnnx@unaffiliated/cnnx) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:42] <cnnx> i got a usb cellular modem, how can i configure it with raspbian?
[19:42] <cnnx> it shows in lsusb
[19:43] <IanTLopp> cnnx: I apologize if you're not joking, but that totally sounds like a joke.
[19:44] <Apocx> I've used USB cell modems with RPIs before, so not sure why you'd think it's a joke :P
[19:44] <cnnx> yeah
[19:44] <IT_Sean> cnnx: did you read the documentation for it? How does it work? Does it respond to AT commands? Is it USB over Serial?
[19:44] <cnnx> its not
[19:44] <Apocx> I used wvdial or somesuch to initiate the connection
[19:44] <cnnx> Apocx: thanks i'll cehck it out
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[19:45] <Apocx> EdwardIII: I use Pin 6 to shutdown/startup the RPI
[19:45] <gordonDrogon> EdwardIII, if the I2C pins are free, then you can use them for other stuff - it just happens that one of them will re-boot the Pi when the Pi is in a halt state.
[19:45] <Apocx> which may or may not be the i2c pin gordon is referencing, I don't recall :P
[19:45] <IanTLopp> Apocx, it just sounds like one... dunno.. kind of like, "I've got this old ball mouse that has a 9 pin serial connector. I've got a 9-pin serial to ps/2 adapter, and another ps/2 to usb adapter. will that work with my pi?" while it may, it just seems goofy.
[19:45] <gordonDrogon> it's physical pin 3 IIRC.
[19:46] <Apocx> er you are right
[19:46] <Apocx> I'm thinking of the header P6
[19:46] <gordonDrogon> ah, the 'run' pin.
[19:46] <EdwardIII> but then i guess it's going to be a bit fiddly with this kind of case? https://thepihut.com/products/official-raspberry-pi-3-case-white-red?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=15389113156&gclid=CNWykNLWwtMCFUK4GwodS4IF5A
[19:46] <IanTLopp> gordonDrogon, EdwardIII, I wish there was some way to send a command via an external button to the raspberry pi to trigger a shutdown sequence in whatever OS you're running.
[19:46] <Apocx> or am I. damn let me google it
[19:46] <gordonDrogon> depends how good your soldering is :)
[19:46] <IanTLopp> and then disconnect power at the end.
[19:47] <EdwardIII> or like power-over-ethernet or power-over-controller or something like that would be awesome
[19:47] <gordonDrogon> IanTLopp, it's a 2-line bash script. what's the problem?
[19:47] <Apocx> Yeah it was the I2C pin I was thinking of
[19:47] <Apocx> physical pin 5, GPIO 3
[19:47] <Apocx> short it to pin 6 (gnd) and it will start up from shutdown
[19:47] <Apocx> sorry for the confusion :)
[19:47] <gordonDrogon> 3 lines if you count the #!/bin/sh
[19:48] <IanTLopp> gordonDrogon, wait... so there IS a way to have a physical button that, say, runs a bash script to shut down the device, then, once the software has reached its shutdown state, it automatically disconnects power?
[19:48] <gordonDrogon> IanTLopp, sure.
[19:48] <Apocx> EdwardIII: Cut a hole in the case, stick a button in it.
[19:48] <IanTLopp> then that same button on the next press, simply provides power?
[19:48] <gordonDrogon> IanTLopp, hang on - I'll write it, test and and publish it.
[19:48] <gordonDrogon> IanTLopp, yes.
[19:49] <IanTLopp> gordonDrogon, you had me at "it's a 2-line bash script."
[19:49] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:49] <gordonDrogon> give me a minite or 3.
[19:50] <EdwardIII> Apocx: sorry i'm really really green - what would i search to find an example of that?
[19:50] <Apocx> what, putting a button in a case?
[19:50] <EdwardIII> Apocx: yeah
[19:50] <Apocx> generally you drill a hole that fits your button, place the button in, and then screw a nut on the other end to keep it in place
[19:50] <nacelle> epoxy/etc.
[19:51] <Apocx> https://www.amazon.com/URBEST-Momentary-Button-Switch-Pieces/dp/B01IU898QA
[19:51] <Apocx> something like that
[19:51] <Apocx> yeah epoxy/glue also work
[19:51] <EdwardIII> and the button just makes/breaks a circuit if it's a toggle? http://iot-projects.com/data/uploads/images/RPi_push_button_wires.jpg like this?
[19:51] <Apocx> you can get all sorts of styles for the button as well
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[19:51] <EdwardIII> actually for all my crying this guide looks pretty good: http://iot-projects.com/index.php?id=raspberry-pi-shutdown-button
[19:51] <Apocx> yeah. in your case you'd just have two wires not 3
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[19:52] <Apocx> that guide is doing it slightly differently than I would but it'd probably work all the same
[19:52] * webturtle0 (~webturtle@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:52] <EdwardIII> differently how?
[19:52] <brainzap> he invented the iot button
[19:53] * MarioBranco (~MarioBran@a213-22-165-8.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:53] <Apocx> I'd use the button on pin 5 & 6 so it'd wake up from shutdown (halt) if you pressed it again.
[19:53] <Apocx> I don't think his can do that? let me read it
[19:54] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[19:54] <mistawright> hi guys what raspivid command could i use to output the camera video to the composite out of my pi zero. I will be using a vtx, video transmitter, to transmit the output of the composite output and needed to know how to use raspivid to output to the screen for me? thhanks
[19:54] * firebalrog (~firebalro@wsip-24-120-168-125.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:54] <Apocx> and I'd also use an interrupt, not poll the button constantly
[19:55] <EdwardIII> i mean that sounds better
[19:55] <EdwardIII> guess i need to find my soldiering iron
[19:55] <EdwardIII> *soldering
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> ok, it's physical pin 5.
[19:55] <Apocx> if you have a jumper wire you can write all yoru software and test it out
[19:55] <Apocx> yeah, I didn't know it was also an i2c pin
[19:56] <Apocx> I use an interrupt to start shutdown when pin 5 goes low to gnd (via button press) and then when the pi is in halt mode, pin 5 going low will bring the pi back up
[19:56] <mistawright> the reset pins are a i2c pins as well?
[19:57] <EdwardIII> heh i don't think i have any jumpers/jumper wire around
[19:57] <Apocx> paperclip? :P
[19:57] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@c-67-163-60-93.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:57] <gordonDrogon> https://unicorn.drogon.net/buttonBoot
[19:57] <Apocx> I used a screwdriver to short pin 5 to 6 when I was testing it heh
[19:58] * cyclux (~cyclux@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:58] <gordonDrogon> yea, 5 is SCL, 6 is 0v.
[19:58] <gordonDrogon> IanTLopp, ^^
[19:59] * firebalrog (~firebalro@wsip-24-120-168-125.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[19:59] <Apocx> gordonDrogon: I thought you were going to handle power disconnection. which admittedly I'm not sure how you could without some hardware circuit :P
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[19:59] <gordonDrogon> Apocx, nah... that's what UPSs are for....
[19:59] <Apocx> hehe
[20:00] <Apocx> I think he wanted it to disconnect the Pi from power after safely shutting down
[20:00] <Apocx> seems to be a common request
[20:00] <gordonDrogon> oh, well, left as an exercise for the user ...
[20:00] <Apocx> usually solved in various ways, I've seen people use large caps, batteries, etc
[20:00] <Apocx> though that's generally for when power is lost
[20:00] <gordonDrogon> although I understand a Pi does go into quite a low power mode now - at least on modern Pi's - the older ones with linear regulators were a bit heavier on idle juice.
[20:01] <Apocx> yeah
[20:01] <gordonDrogon> the serial Tx pins is a hany one to monitor - it goes low when halted.
[20:01] <EdwardIII> i've got a paperclip
[20:01] <EdwardIII> and screwdrivers
[20:01] <gordonDrogon> EdwardIII, just type in: gpio -1 wfi 5 falling
[20:01] <EdwardIII> it's more like i wanted to start the pi back up again without unplugging / replugging
[20:01] <gordonDrogon> the command should not rerturn to the prompt until you short pin 5 to 0v.
[20:02] <EdwardIII> happy to shutdown by software
[20:02] <EdwardIII> just like normal desktop :)
[20:02] <Apocx> EdwardIII: Before you do anything please keep this disclaimer in mind: Shorting pins can be bad in some cases, if you brick your Pi it is not on me :P
[20:02] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:02] <Apocx> just be extra careful if you do try it
[20:02] <EdwardIII> extra careful? like de-static myself?
[20:02] <gordonDrogon> or fetch and run that script I posted.
[20:02] <Apocx> as in don't short the wrong pins ha
[20:02] <gordonDrogon> EdwardIII, the 0v pin is next to the 5v pin...
[20:03] * BluesKaj_ (~Blues@unaffiliated/blueskaj) has left #raspberrypi
[20:03] <EdwardIII> gordonDrogon: i'd still need to physically connect the pins to test your script though wouldn't i? https://unicorn.drogon.net/buttonBoot
[20:03] <Apocx> http://iot-projects.com/data/uploads/images/GPIOs.png
[20:04] <Apocx> the blue pin 3rd down from top left (GPIO3) and the black ground pin to the right of it
[20:04] <Apocx> are the pins in question
[20:04] <gordonDrogon> EdwardIII, yes, leave the pins open, run the script/command, short the pins briefly - the Pi will halt, then short them again and it will boot.
[20:04] <Apocx> http://i.imgur.com/zbPVt66.png
[20:04] <Apocx> even better
[20:05] <IanTLopp> sorry gordonDrogon, had to hit the bathroom
[20:05] <gordonDrogon> https://pinout.xyz/#
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[20:05] <IanTLopp> wouldn't "sudo shutdown" work?
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[20:05] * gordonDrogon shrugs.
[20:05] <Apocx> yes
[20:05] <gordonDrogon> shutdown/init 0/halt/
[20:05] <Apocx> lots of ways to do it. gets the job done regardless
[20:05] <gordonDrogon> shutdown is slower and longer to type.
[20:05] * kantlivelong (~kantlivel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kantlivelong) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:06] <IanTLopp> hmm...
[20:06] <IanTLopp> also, how does this disconnect power from the device?
[20:06] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:06] <gordonDrogon> it was the 'traditional' way in multi-user systems - to warm people and give them a minute ot 5 notice of an impending shutdown.
[20:06] <IanTLopp> ahh.. didn't know about that
[20:06] <gordonDrogon> left as an exercise for the user ...
[20:06] <EdwardIII> heh you can't buy an individual push button
[20:07] <gordonDrogon> EdwardIII, sure you can.
[20:07] <Apocx> you can. it just costs more than in bulk
[20:07] <gordonDrogon> https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/colourful-arcade-buttons
[20:07] <Apocx> and it is such a common component, you will probably use them in the future. so just buy a handful
[20:07] <EdwardIII> i'm still waiting for the divine inspiration to stop me from just wasting time playing retrogames and start a project
[20:08] <gordonDrogon> Ah, that.
[20:08] <methuzla> pew pew pew
[20:08] <EdwardIII> in the meantime: start-up button
[20:08] <EdwardIII> i have plenty of software dev experience but i've never even wired up a plug
[20:09] <EdwardIII> i did chip an xbox original once
[20:09] <Apocx> hey that was me like two years ago. once you get the hang of it, hardware stuff is really fun.
[20:09] <polprog> EdwardIII: you can wire a button to the reset pins to wake the pi aup after a halt
[20:09] <IanTLopp> EdwardIII, why chip? tsop FTW!
[20:09] <Apocx> that's what we have been discussing polprog
[20:10] <polprog> oh. i just came back :D sorry ;)
[20:10] <oq> you never needed to chip the original xbox's, you just needed to get one of the games that had a vulnerability like splinter cell and a hacked save
[20:10] <oq> and then stick xbmc on it
[20:10] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[20:11] <EdwardIII> whelp there you go
[20:11] <EdwardIII> i chipped it
[20:11] <EdwardIII> it was mega lazy though, didn't even require soldering
[20:11] <IanTLopp> oq: software mod... meh.. tsop flashing :)
[20:11] <IanTLopp> I could tsop flash without voiding the warranty :)
[20:11] <EdwardIII> what kind of projects have you guys worked on lately?
[20:11] <EdwardIII> the other pi default, magic mirror, seems a bit ambitious for me
[20:12] <EdwardIII> not the wiring/setup side, just the "framing a damn mirror" side
[20:12] <IanTLopp> currently working on 3 different portable emulation consoles, a pi zero driven dash cam, and an octopi print server
[20:12] <EdwardIII> dashcam, nice
[20:12] <Apocx> oh heh. I was going to say there's nothing to it, but yeah the physical construction could be a pain heh
[20:12] <EdwardIII> they look wicked though
[20:13] <IanTLopp> I'd love to setup something like the magic mirror and the living eyes project behind the mirror...
[20:13] <Apocx> pi emulators and magic mirrors are like "the" goto projects. everyone is doing them
[20:13] <IanTLopp> that'd mess with some people.
[20:13] <IanTLopp> apocx: nobody is doing mine.
[20:13] <Apocx> neither of which interest me :P
[20:13] <IanTLopp> nobody, which is why I'm doing mine.
[20:13] <IanTLopp> so what are you doing apocx?
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[20:13] <Apocx> so you are just running retropie or somesuch? well good on you then
[20:13] <Apocx> aren't*
[20:13] <Apocx> we need more creative projects
[20:13] <IanTLopp> apocx: mostly using that software for right now... my project is a hardware one... I'm not a programmer
[20:14] * jkridner (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:14] <IanTLopp> BUT, I will tweak the ever loving HELL out of the software side to fit the console setup once it's done.
[20:14] <Apocx> ah
[20:14] <IanTLopp> OH YEAH... almost forgot my ScummPI project, though that's on the back burger.
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[20:14] <IanTLopp> back burner... damn it.
[20:14] <IanTLopp> stupid stupid hands
[20:14] * Zparx (~Fox@dslb-188-108-106-136.188.108.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:15] <IanTLopp> ScummPI is going to be a portable ScummVM console, which emphasis on simplicity, usability, and touchscreen accuracy.
[20:15] <IanTLopp> I HAVE to have it work by simply pressing with the pen on the object you want to click on... I hate relative mouse mode Scumm playig.
[20:15] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:15] <IanTLopp> playing, rather.
[20:16] <IanTLopp> I was hoping to do it at 7", but it looks like I'll have to move up to 8.4" (NOBODY has a 5wire touchscreen at 7")
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[20:18] * funnel (~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:18] <IanTLopp> so what are you doing Apocx?
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[20:19] <Apocx> currently making changes to a Pi Compute Module board that has 4g/wifi/bluetooth/gps/obd2 capabilities for vehicle tracking and to interface with some of our other hardware (we have a tablet and some other devices that communicate with it)
[20:19] <Apocx> bunch of stuff for utility locators to use in the field
[20:20] * brainzap (~brainzap@46-126-143-230.dynamic.hispeed.ch) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:20] <Apocx> though my latest home project was a wifi battery powered motion sensor heh. nice and simple weekend project
[20:20] <EdwardIII> like in ALIEN?
[20:21] <Apocx> I don't remember much of Alien to be honest
[20:21] <Apocx> haven't seen it in some time
[20:21] <EdwardIII> really?
[20:21] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@AMontsouris-655-1-154-181.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:21] <Apocx> I'm more of a Predator kind of guy ;)
[20:21] <Apocx> never really cared for the alien movies
[20:21] <EdwardIII> https://youtu.be/MZWvsIBrfxM?t=22
[20:21] <EdwardIII> noooo
[20:23] <EdwardIII> why are these buttons so huge underneath? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rectangle-Blue-Cap-Lamp-1NO-1NC-Momentary-Contact-Push-Button-Switch-/122101358841?hash=item1c6dcee0f9:g:bw4AAOSwdGFYuBV-
[20:23] <EdwardIII> actually the URBEST one was quite small underneath too
[20:23] <IT_Sean> so there is room for the innards?
[20:23] <EdwardIII> look at that one, it's vast: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-400V-10A-Red-Button-Momentary-Push-Button-Switch-1NO-1NC-DPST/291952975985?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40656%26meid%3D5734b9ec0edc4fab955665171401cfe3%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122101358841
[20:24] <Apocx> it's also rated for 400V 10A
[20:24] * doomlord (~textual@host81-153-146-253.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[20:24] <IT_Sean> that ^
[20:24] <Apocx> the more amperage/voltage the heavier duty contacts
[20:24] <EdwardIII> ah ok
[20:24] <IanTLopp> Apocx: obd2? and that sounds like something that might have some useful crossfunctionality to a dashcam
[20:24] <IanTLopp> though I'm sure I'm horribly oversimplifying what you're talking about
[20:24] <ddybing> Hi! I have a raspberry pi zero, but no input device to connect to it. But I do have another computer running Linux. Is it possible to chroot into the SD card or edit a file through nano to start the SSH service?
[20:24] <Apocx> yeah the OBD2 is so supervisors can know if a vehicle is having engine problems or some such. and track mileage, etc
[20:24] <ddybing> I've already mounted in and set up the network.
[20:25] <EdwardIII> would something liek this be OK? i can't see the button and i don't see much in the wayof contacts sticking out: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Momentary-contact-12mm-Mini-Round-Waterproof-ON-OFF-Push-button-Switch-CG-/152322361010?var=&hash=item23771ec6b2:m:m1nR6kx7Tc4UUM-jW2CNsTQ
[20:25] <IanTLopp> Apocx, ahh, okay. So this is for fleetwide systems communication?
[20:25] <IanTLopp> NEAT!
[20:25] <Apocx> that is one aspect of it yeah
[20:26] <Apocx> EdwardIII: I don't see why that wouldn't work
[20:27] <Apocx> just make sure you have a drill bit that is about the same size as the bottom of the switch, to make your life easier
[20:27] <polprog> Apocx: how much money i needed to get all the parts to make a "raspi CM eval board" ? i'd like to design one
[20:27] <polprog> is needed *
[20:27] * kantlivelong (~kantlivel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kantlivelong) Quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
[20:27] <EdwardIII> heh welllll i don't
[20:27] <EdwardIII> but i bet i know someone who does
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[20:28] <Apocx> you need a 4layer board really so it'd be close to $100 to get the boards manufactured usually for a small run of 3-5. plus component costs (another $100 maybe?) + cost of the compute module
[20:28] <Apocx> so $150-200 I'd wager for a simple one
[20:28] * divx118 (~divx118@5ED66EB7.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:29] <Apocx> just a ballpark
[20:29] <polprog> thanks very much. do you think you can hand-solder that simm connector with hot air?
[20:29] <Apocx> the sodimm?
[20:29] <polprog> yeah
[20:29] <Apocx> yeah I just used paste and a hot air gun for the prototypes
[20:29] <Apocx> solder paste*
[20:29] <Apocx> you will probably get solder bridges but some solder wick takes care of it easy enough
[20:30] <polprog> sounds easy :) thanks. i'll see if i can get one module then...
[20:30] * kantlivelong (~kantlivel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kantlivelong) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:30] <Apocx> they have the eval board design files published so you can look at them
[20:30] <polprog> oh, thats nice
[20:30] <Apocx> I think they used OrCad so you'd have to download the trial of OrCad
[20:30] <Apocx> and the schematics are available in pdf
[20:30] <Apocx> if you want to add ethernet/more than 1 usb device you need to add a LAN9514 chip
[20:31] <polprog> i think ill manage
[20:31] <Apocx> ok. :)
[20:31] <IanTLopp> polprog, I don't know if this helps (as I'm not really heavily into the PCB design scene), but oshpark does small runs for pretty damn cheap http://docs.oshpark.com/services/four-layer/
[20:31] * Anatzum (~michael@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/anatzum) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[20:31] <EdwardIII> when you started out what did you guys do for cabling? i only need like a couple of inches for this project
[20:31] <Apocx> IanTLopp: That's who I used for our prototypes heh
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[20:32] <Apocx> you can get by with just 22awg or some such wire
[20:32] <polprog> IanTLopp: i know oshpark but i have a local millhose that has a week turnover for 4layer + mask and silk
[20:32] <Apocx> I have a few spools of it
[20:32] <Apocx> nice!
[20:32] <polprog> millhouse*
[20:32] * Sadale (~Sadale@unaffiliated/sadale) Quit (Quit: Ĝis revido)
[20:32] <IanTLopp> polprog: okay... I was just trying to help with my tiny knowledge :)
[20:32] * kantlivelong (~kantlivel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kantlivelong) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:33] <polprog> someday maybe ill order from osh... when i will be *really* short on money :P
[20:33] <Apocx> one thing to keep in mind is that for the CM3 you need to change VBAT from 3.3V to 5V as it needs more juice
[20:33] <Apocx> if you are using the eval board as a base
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[20:34] <IanTLopp> polprog: there's one other company I have in my links at home that does similar to Oshpark, but they'll install all necessary parts that you either supply, or are are readily available. Their pricing is even better than oshpark, but they're in china.
[20:34] <Apocx> EdwardIII: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3111
[20:34] <polprog> it's still shelved for after i learn avr assembly fully
[20:34] * kantlivelong (~kantlivel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kantlivelong) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:34] <Apocx> yeah we are looking at some turn-key assembly places
[20:34] <EdwardIII> Apocx: cool, thanks!
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[20:35] <Apocx> pcbcart is probably going to be the one we go with
[20:35] <Apocx> we tried some US ones but the prices were pretty high
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[20:45] <EdwardIII> man i don't even know how to ask this heh - can you get some kindof jumper you can short if you don't want to solder directly to gpio pins?
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[20:45] <EdwardIII> 'open top'?
[20:45] <oq> EdwardIII: a female header?
[20:47] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:9c15:48b9:c793:e5bc) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:47] <Apocx> a jumper wire
[20:47] <Apocx> or a header yeah. not sure which you are referring to
[20:47] * kantlivelong (~kantlivel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kantlivelong) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:47] <EdwardIII> me neither heh
[20:48] <Apocx> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61nHxQZGSTL._SL1000_.jpg
[20:48] <EdwardIII> is there some general guide i should be following for this stuff instead of bugging you guys?
[20:48] * kantlivelong (~kantlivel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kantlivelong) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:48] <oq> bug away
[20:48] <EdwardIII> i just don't want to solder directly on the pi in case i change my mind
[20:48] <Apocx> oh
[20:48] <Apocx> so then connect your button to a 2pin female header
[20:48] <oq> EdwardIII: breadboard?
[20:48] * kantlivelong (~kantlivel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kantlivelong) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:48] <Apocx> or use a breadboard yeah with jumper wires
[20:48] <Apocx> but when you put it in your case use a header
[20:48] * tsglove (~tsglove@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:48] <EdwardIII> breadboard might be a bit overkill i think?
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[20:49] <oq> if your prototyping it isn't
[20:49] <oq> *you're
[20:49] <Apocx> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/115
[20:49] <Apocx> cut to length with pliers
[20:49] <polprog> i would go for a rasterboard
[20:49] <polprog> instead of breadboard
[20:49] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:49] <EdwardIII> eh well it's just to slap a power button for a retropie box at the moment
[20:49] <EdwardIII> but i might change my mind later
[20:50] <EdwardIII> and i'm a coward
[20:50] <Apocx> just get some jumper wires and solder one end to the button
[20:50] <oq> female header sounds like what you want
[20:50] <polprog> you mean to short the unpopulated reset pins on the pi?
[20:50] <Apocx> and plug the otherside into the Pi pins
[20:50] * InverseRhombus (~InverseRh@2a02:c7d:da1e:1300:b59a:258d:70e0:100c) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:50] <oq> EdwardIII: https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/1200x900/1658-01.jpg ?
[20:50] <EdwardIII> polprog: yes
[20:51] <polprog> if i were you i would really solder a header. it's not that hard
[20:51] <polprog> or get a push-type header
[20:51] <polprog> solderless!
[20:51] <Apocx> there are many ways to skin a cat as it were
[20:51] <EdwardIII> yeah i think i want a push-type header
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[20:51] <IanTLopp> EdwardIII, I wonder if they make a pogopin header connector
[20:51] <EdwardIII> i don't mind soldering the switch to a header
[20:52] <EdwardIII> i just don't want to solder directly into the gpio pins
[20:52] * brokaw (~textual@216-188-254-66.dyn.grandenetworks.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:52] <polprog> the reset pin is not the gpio
[20:52] <Apocx> if you don't have some already, you will benefit greatly from having jumper wires, breadboards, switches, leds, etc., when you are just starting out
[20:52] <EdwardIII> ok, i don't want to solder directly anywhere on the pi box really heh
[20:52] <EdwardIII> yet
[20:52] <polprog> ok. push header is is then :)
[20:53] <EdwardIII> is this a push header? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/115
[20:53] <IanTLopp> do they make a pogopin header?
[20:53] <Apocx> no those headers involve soldering
[20:53] <polprog> EdwardIII: let me find something for you
[20:53] * SomeT (~SomeT@ Quit ()
[20:53] <oq> I think by push header he means the "pimoroni hammer header"
[20:54] <Apocx> http://iot-projects.com/index.php?id=raspberry-pi-shutdown-button
[20:54] <Apocx> I'd just do it like that project you linked earlier
[20:54] <Apocx> solder one end of jumper wires to button, push other end on to GPIO header on Pi. done
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[20:54] <EdwardIII> right i see
[20:54] <Apocx> http://iot-projects.com/data/uploads/images/RPi_push_button_wires.jpg
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[20:57] <polprog> i remember, it's called pressure fit header
[20:58] <Apocx> solderless headers? i.e. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10527 ?
[20:58] <polprog> exactly
[20:58] <Apocx> that'd be good if he wants to use the P6 reset pads but I think he is going to use pins 5 & 6 on the GPIO
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[20:59] <Apocx> but either way works I suppose
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[20:59] <polprog> so there's a reset pin on the 40pin header? i always used the unpopuated header next to the sdcard :P
[20:59] <Apocx> yeah pin 5 will start up the pi from halt mode. then you can just shutdown the pi when pin 5 falls to handle shutdown
[21:00] <polprog> also, id not buy from adafruit but rather from aliexpre or mouser/farnell/tme
[21:00] <Apocx> so a button shorting pin 5 to 6 can startup/shutdown the pi
[21:00] <polprog> TIL.
[21:00] <polprog> does it send acpi shutdon signal or just halts the cpu?
[21:01] <Apocx> you have to handle the shutdown in software
[21:01] <EdwardIII> well i'm in the uk so adafruit is a no-go anyway
[21:01] <Apocx> use farnell then
[21:01] <polprog> Apocx: nice. thats what i needed
[21:01] <EdwardIII> i'm still not entirely sure the kind of connector i need
[21:02] <EdwardIII> or if connector is even the right word
[21:02] <EdwardIII> i know what it looks like heh, not the name of it
[21:02] <Apocx> any mometary push button will do the job
[21:02] * DingoSaar (~hagen@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:02] <polprog> a 2.54 mm (100 mils) male pin header
[21:02] <Apocx> or for that side yeah :P
[21:02] <polprog> and a typical pushbutton
[21:02] <Apocx> button one one side, 2.54mm pin headers on the other
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[21:03] <Apocx> you can also buy a pack of jumper wires (they come in handy for prototyping projects on breadboards) and cut one end off. https://www.amazon.com/Haitronic-Multicolored-Breadboard-Arduino-raspberry/dp/B01LZF1ZSZ
[21:03] <EdwardIII> hrm http://uk.farnell.com/search?st=2.54mm%20pin%20headers
[21:04] <polprog> if you wanna to get to the electronic part of messing with pis or generally into elecronics, i'd suggest to get some basic parts kit, like resistors, caps, leds, buttons, displays, wires
[21:04] <polprog> wanna get*
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[21:04] <Apocx> yeah there are plenty of nice starter kits that include a little bit of everything for $50 or less
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[21:05] <polprog> in fact you can even get a kit for arduino. even better, because it will have all those higher level modules
[21:05] * cybr1d is now known as SunShangXiang
[21:05] <polprog> i use those with AVRs i do
[21:05] <EdwardIII> i think i'll get a kit once i have a proper project in mind
[21:06] <EdwardIII> i was thinking a unit in the office like a few leds and people could tweet in a picture and it tries to render it or something
[21:06] <EdwardIII> it'll just be dicks though
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[21:06] <polprog> messing around is a valid project for me :P or "platform research", whatever you call it
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[21:07] <Apocx> start simple. setup a circuit to light an led from an arduino/pi. setup a circuit to get button input. control a motor. etc etc
[21:07] <Apocx> then later when you want to do a full project you will have the basics down
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[21:08] <EdwardIII> think i might need an applcation otherwise i'll just never knuckle down to it
[21:08] <EdwardIII> a goal
[21:08] <Apocx> or dive into the deep end and tackle a large project bit by bit. some people work better that way (I do)
[21:08] <EdwardIII> i was thinking about wiring up like a sexy wood counter or something that increases whenever you have a website conversion or something
[21:08] <polprog> but dont jump on the deep waters early
[21:08] <EdwardIII> the last part is a piece of cake for me
[21:09] <EdwardIII> i can take things in very small steps. i'm a good incrementor!
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[21:12] <EdwardIII> cool, i've got all the stuff i need. i can have a play when that lot arrives. the only problem will be having a drillbit big enough to make a button-hole...
[21:13] <Apocx> a dremel or something would work as well
[21:14] <Apocx> though I'm sure you don't have a dremel :P
[21:14] <Apocx> drill bits are cheap enough. you can use a smaller one and tilt the drill a bit to make the hole bigger
[21:14] <EdwardIII> i don't heh, i got nothing
[21:14] <EdwardIII> yeah i'll start experimenting when the button comes
[21:15] <polprog> stupid question... got a reistor for that button? :D
[21:15] <EdwardIII> no heh
[21:15] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:9c15:48b9:c793:e5bc) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:15] <polprog> thats a problem
[21:17] <IanTLopp> what's a reistor?
[21:17] <polprog> https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/projects/raspberrypi/tutorials/robot/buttons_and_switches/
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[21:19] <Apocx> it's always good to buy a bulk pack of assorted resistor values
[21:19] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:19] <Apocx> you *will* need them almost all the time when doing projects
[21:19] <polprog> i have a box of standard values and a coumple of strips with smd ones.
[21:20] <EdwardIII> something like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Resistors-Metal-Film-300-Pack-10-each-30-values-1-4w-1-Kit-Assortment-Mix-UK-/111148362636?hash=item19e0f56b8c:g:4dIAAOxyiRlSa-nO
[21:20] <Apocx> yep
[21:20] <polprog> more like assorted resistors from various kits and buys from the last 5 years
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[21:21] <Apocx> that too :P
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[21:22] * SunShangxiang is now known as cybr1d
[21:22] <EdwardIII> i don't have any existing stuff at all heh
[21:22] <EdwardIII> maybe i should rip it out the back of the t.v....
[21:23] <polprog> dont open the tv
[21:23] * IT_Sean detonates EdwardIII's TV
[21:23] <EdwardIII> too late, dead from charged capacitors
[21:23] <polprog> 14kv and you get to see grandpa again
[21:24] <EdwardIII> (is that right? capacitors hold their charge for a while even when power is disconnected?)
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[21:24] <IT_Sean> can do.
[21:24] <polprog> yes
[21:24] <EdwardIII> and so we always have to leave our routers unplugged for 10s before plugging them in
[21:24] <IanTLopp> EdwardIII, a capacitor is basically an extremely fast discharge battery.
[21:24] <IT_Sean> more recent CRTs have a bleeder circuit that discharges them, but... never can be to careful.
[21:25] <EdwardIII> that was a joke just to be clear :D
[21:25] <IanTLopp> it will hold it, under ideal circumstances, for a very long time, then discharge almost instantly.
[21:25] <IT_Sean> I've seen what a charged CRT does to a person. ...and to the wall opposite them.
[21:25] * leptonix (~leptonix@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:25] <EdwardIII> actually i've just realised there's been a project sitting in front of me for ages
[21:26] <IanTLopp> IT_Sean, that almost happened to me...
[21:26] <polprog> if you have nothing from an electronics workbench i'd suggest you get a part kit and a multimeter, at least
[21:26] <IanTLopp> I had a TV that I accidentally poured chocolate milk into.
[21:26] <EdwardIII> in our office we added a speaker system to the ceiling for music. we wanted to make it so you could control, via an app, which speakers were on/off in groups so you could turn off music over someone if they have a phone call
[21:26] <IanTLopp> turned it off and started working on it, cleaning everything out...
[21:26] <IanTLopp> fried a wet wash cloth, which discharged the capacitors, so it didn't kill me...
[21:26] <IT_Sean> how do you accidentally pour chocolate milk into a TV?
[21:26] <IanTLopp> ended up with, oddly, a black and white TV... it worked fine other than that.
[21:26] <polprog> you werent a kid, were ya?
[21:26] <IanTLopp> IT_Sean, I was... 14, I think.
[21:27] <IT_Sean> a 14 year old should know better.
[21:27] <polprog> things like that happen :P
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[21:27] <IT_Sean> If you had said you were 4... okay then. but... really... a 14yo should know better
[21:27] <polprog> IT_Sean: even a 40 year old man can put some staples into a terminal
[21:27] <EdwardIII> milk, fine, chocolate milk? that was your problem
[21:28] <polprog> EdwardIII: that uni web site guide is pretty nice imo.
[21:28] <IanTLopp> 14 year old fat kid that I wish I could tell to stop drinking that shit because now I'm a 39 year old diabetic fat man.
[21:28] <EdwardIII> polprog: i've favourited it to check it out when i get home
[21:30] <Apocx> my buddy shocked himself playing around with a disposable camera. got shocked by the charged capacitors for the flash :P
[21:30] <Apocx> he learned a valuable lesson that day
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[21:59] <starstuff> Does Debian 9 'Stretch' work on the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B?
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[22:06] <ShorTie> i do believe plugwash has it there
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[22:21] <this_self> Hi guys! Is anybody know easy way to use hardware PWM on raspberry pi 3 model ?
[22:22] <this_self> I need only hardware PWM with ability to set manually frequrency and signal length. I don't know a lot about it... All googled methods are too hard and unstable...
[22:22] <gordonDrogon> gpio -g mode $pin pwm ; gpio -g pwm $pin $value
[22:23] <this_self> but using this way how I can set frequrency ?
[22:23] <gordonDrogon> you probably want the hardware working in mark:space type PWM then; gpio -g $pin pwm_ms
[22:23] <this_self> so when I set pwm_ms to 1 the max freq I could obtain only 1000hz, right?
[22:24] <this_self> But I need more than 5khz
[22:24] <gordonDrogon> you set the input clock frequency and the range register.
[22:24] <gordonDrogon> so change the clock divider.
[22:24] <this_self> sorry for my noobs question. But how I can do that using gpio utility?
[22:24] <gordonDrogon> ok - I just checked the manual.
[22:24] <gordonDrogon> gpio pwm-ms
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[22:24] <gordonDrogon> will set the pwm system into mark:space mode.
[22:25] <gordonDrogon> gpio pwmr N # set the range register to N
[22:26] <gordonDrogon> gpio pwmc N # Set the clock divider to N
[22:26] <gordonDrogon> the clock is 19.2Mhz.
[22:26] <this_self> The main goal to have ability to set frequrency in hz and impulse length from 0 to 100 (But I need 50% of length)
[22:26] <gordonDrogon> so if you want a clock of 1MHz, then gpio pwmc 19
[22:26] <this_self> I didn't work with it earlier
[22:26] * RoBo_V (~robo@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[22:27] <this_self> oh right. I need divider into register
[22:27] <this_self> I'l have 1.01 mhz
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[22:28] <gordonDrogon> sure.
[22:28] <gordonDrogon> what Hz do you want?
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[22:29] <this_self> THe hz will chanched dynamically. It will depends on joystick position
[22:29] <this_self> for example I want to check work on 1000hz
[22:29] <this_self> so I need pwmr 19000, right?
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[22:30] <gordonDrogon> I think you're doing the wrong thing.
[22:30] <gordonDrogon> what are you trying to achieve?
[22:31] <gordonDrogon> it's not normal to dynamically change a PWM frequency in a system.
[22:32] <gordonDrogon> it's also quite "glitchy" in the Pi as you have to stop the PWM clock before changing it.
[22:32] <this_self> I have a servo engine. I have a game on Unity. It will be the cabin with servo and when user will change joystick posigion the cabin should twisted depends on joystick incline angle
[22:32] <gordonDrogon> oh, servos.
[22:33] <gordonDrogon> You'd best go and read up on how this 50 year old Radio Control technology works then. I'll give you a hint; it's a fixed frequency.
[22:33] * Snircle (~textual@ip68-6-211-19.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:33] <gordonDrogon> You need to create a pulse of between exactly 1 and 2 mS. 1 is "hard left", 2 is "hard right".
[22:34] <gordonDrogon> this pulse should be repeated at least 50 times a second.
[22:35] <gordonDrogon> although some servos remember the position value without repeated pusles. these servos are expensive.
[22:35] * tsglove (~tsglove@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:36] <this_self> We're using arduino and raspberry as pwm generator for servo moving
[22:36] <gordonDrogon> I ought to put this into wiringPi. actually, I might soon as I have a pan/tilt servo unit for the Pi Camera which needs making use of at some point.
[22:36] <gordonDrogon> Pi only has 2 hardware outputs. if you need more then you need to use PiGPIO or Servoblaster.
[22:36] <gordonDrogon> or let the Arduino do it all.
[22:36] <this_self> On arduino that about I said works as well. But the raspberry choose because it has integrated wifi antenna and it easy to connect to main machine for obtain commands to control engine
[22:38] <this_self> How it works with arduino: it connected to main machine with USB (com port mode) and game written on Unity sent to COM port 1000 messages per second about direction and moving strenght.
[22:39] <this_self> What arduino do: I have parse the string, The direction could be 1 or 0. It is the signal to servo controller about direction.
[22:40] <gordonDrogon> is 2 Servos on the Pi going to be good enough?
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[22:41] <this_self> the second digit as moving strenght could be 0 - 65535. The phygical engine can moving 2500 revolutions per second when generator send there 500khz. So the strenght digit calculated to hertz and it will change the arduino register digit value
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[22:41] <this_self> and it works. But something arduino have unhandled exception...
[22:42] <this_self> sometimes*
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[22:42] <this_self> I want to try it on raspberry.
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[22:43] <this_self> I want create wifi access point and start socket server for sending the data to run engine. But I don't know how to control hardware pwm in raspberry....
[22:43] <gordonDrogon> what language are you programming in?
[22:43] * HeXiLeD (~grumpynes@gateway/tor-sasl/hexiled) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:43] <this_self> it's not mandatory. I can write on C++, python, C#, js... any else..
[22:43] <this_self> but prefer to write on python
[22:44] <this_self> for prototype
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[22:44] <this_self> on arduino of course only C++...
[22:44] <gordonDrogon> well you have a choice of GPIO libraries for PYthon - I suggest looking for RPi.GPIO and PiGPIO (I think) and GPIO.Zero..
[22:44] * HeXiLeD (~grumpynes@unaffiliated/hexiled) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:44] <this_self> this way to use gpio command looks good. I can make system call from python to up the gpio command with needed params.
[22:45] <this_self> RPi.GPIO I have checked
[22:45] * mgorbach (~mgorbach@pool-96-237-153-152.bstnma.ftas.verizon.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:45] <this_self> it is programm pwm
[22:45] <gordonDrogon> not "of-course" on Arduino.. All my Arduino code is pure C, however.
[22:45] <this_self> and it cannot send more than 1000-2000 hz... processor overloads
[22:45] <this_self> python is bad language for performance
[22:45] <polprog> try C
[22:45] <gordonDrogon> so is calling the gpio program from python.
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[22:46] <this_self> As I read the program pwm is too bad and unstable.. so that's why I want to use hardware generator
[22:47] <gordonDrogon> I suspect that english isn't your native language, but I'm struggling to work out what you're controlling. classic servo motors are positional, although some are rotary - and they take a pulse between 1 and 2 mS.
[22:47] <gordonDrogon> it sounds like you're trying to control something very different.
[22:47] <polprog> can you post a photo of that thing?
[22:48] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:48] <this_self> Our servo engine controlls using impulses
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[22:49] <polprog> what kind of impulses?
[22:49] <this_self> yes. English is not my native language :)
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[22:50] <this_self> I don't know what you mean.. impulses... When I send to servo 200hz generated signal - it's moving with speed 1 turnover by second
[22:50] <polprog> its a stepper motor
[22:50] <this_self> yes!
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[22:50] <this_self> may be..
[22:50] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:51] <polprog> its not a servo, those are two different things :)
[22:51] <this_self> on our language it named as "servo drive" (word to word translateion to english)
[22:51] <this_self> 200hz impulse rotate engine on 360 degrees during 1 second
[22:52] <polprog> and if you give it 100hz, it goes slower?
[22:53] <this_self> yes. full 360 degrees rotation will finished during 2 seconds
[22:53] <gordonDrogon> OK!
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[22:53] <gordonDrogon> please don't try to control a stepper motor with the Pi & the Pi's PWM. it's not designed for that.
[22:53] <polprog> you wont control it with PWM or servo hardware then...
[22:53] <this_self> in specs max rotation speed is 2500 per second at freq = 500khz
[22:53] <polprog> you need a driver chip
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[22:54] <polprog> if you try to connect it directly to GPIO it will break
[22:54] <gordonDrogon> you'll need to accurately count the output pulses too - if you need positional accuracy.
[22:54] <polprog> the pi will break. in surprised the arduino handled that well.
[22:54] <gordonDrogon> and ramping up and down the speed will be somewhat challenging.
[22:54] <this_self> posigional accuracy is not mandatory
[22:54] <gordonDrogon> polprog, I suspect they already have a suitable driver.
[22:55] <polprog> you just need to change the delay between the pulses to control the speed
[22:55] <this_self> we have horoscope sensor to detect position and if needed to correct - move engine in invert direction
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[22:55] <gordonDrogon> how many wires go from the controller to the motor?
[22:56] <gordonDrogon> not from the Pi or Arduino to the controller, but from the controller/amplifier to the motor.
[22:57] <this_self> 32
[22:58] <this_self> from pi|arduino to controller - 3 pins (ground, direction and freq listener)
[22:58] <this_self> friend said that this controller named "stepdir"
[22:58] <gordonDrogon> ok.
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[22:58] <gordonDrogon> 32 seems a lot of wires, but it could be some big industrial motor by the sounds of it.
[22:59] <this_self> yes. Friend said that it expensive industrial motor which coast more than $1500
[22:59] <this_self> it is a really big
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[23:00] <gordonDrogon> personally, I'd do it with Arduino as it's trivial to generate a fixed frequency with them.
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[23:00] <this_self> raspberry is a good only to have wireless connection.
[23:00] <gordonDrogon> however on the Pi, you can use a clock output pin rather than a PWM pin - the down-side is that wiringPi only has a limited range of frequencys, so you might need to write more code, or use another GPIO library.
[23:01] <gordonDrogon> you could connect the arduino to the Pi...
[23:01] <polprog> that would be the easiest i think
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[23:01] <polprog> the pi itself wont be able to generate a stable frequency
[23:01] <this_self> we using fanuc servo motor
[23:02] <gordonDrogon> right.
[23:02] <gordonDrogon> I used to program fanuc CNC machine tools and robots.
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[23:02] <this_self> the main question is how quick rpi can change freqrency on pwm pin
[23:02] <gordonDrogon> big motors that can rip your arm out of its socket.
[23:02] <gordonDrogon> this_self, not quick.
[23:03] <this_self> if it can to change it about 1000 per second - it's great
[23:03] <gordonDrogon> it takes at least 110�S to make a change.
[23:03] <this_self> 110ms?
[23:03] <gordonDrogon> and during that time the clock is turned off.
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[23:03] <gordonDrogon> micro � seconds.
[23:03] <this_self> actualy for our task it's good
[23:04] <gordonDrogon> you will get jitter in the motor.
[23:04] <this_self> but need to check it ...
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[23:05] <polprog> yes, thats 10% of jitter. its not gonna be good.
[23:05] <gordonDrogon> how many motors?
[23:05] <this_self> 2 motors
[23:05] <polprog> max 10% assuming you change the speed 1000 times a second
[23:06] <this_self> I want to try to use smaller digit
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[23:06] <this_self> we only need to rotate cabina depends on position aircraft in the game :)
[23:07] <this_self> but I want to check it myself how it will be felt
[23:07] <polprog> i would write a program for an arduino that receives the number and controls the motor to eliminate that jitter
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[23:07] <this_self> so backing to technical moments about controlling hardware pwm in raspberry :)
[23:07] <polprog> and male it communicate with pi
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[23:08] <gordonDrogon> I'll need to check, but using a clock output would be far better than a PWM output.
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[23:09] <gordonDrogon> there is at least 1 usable clock output on the Pi - maybe 2.
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[23:09] <this_self> Yes. python is bad to control program pwm
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[23:09] <this_self> I'll write it on C (C++)
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[23:09] <this_self> using timer
[23:09] <this_self> clock output*
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[23:10] <this_self> but. I want to try using gpio utility
[23:10] <gordonDrogon> ok, you have 2 clocks.
[23:10] <gordonDrogon> so bcm_gpio pins 4 and 21.
[23:10] <this_self> yes. two clocks for control impulse lenght per period
[23:10] <this_self> but I want to try hardware pwm
[23:10] <gordonDrogon> gpio -g mode 4 clock
[23:10] <this_self> wow. I'll try it immediately
[23:10] <this_self> Now engine connected to 12 bcm pin
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[23:11] <gordonDrogon> this_self, ok - but I can't help you there. I'm saying that you ought to use a clock pin and not a pwm pin.
[23:11] <this_self> and ground on 14. Direction is not mandatory now
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[23:11] <gordonDrogon> try connecting the pulse output to bcm_gpio 4.
[23:11] <gordonDrogon> physical pin 7.
[23:11] <gordonDrogon> then gpio -g mode 4 clock
[23:12] <gordonDrogon> gpio -g clock 4 500 # 500Hz
[23:12] <this_self> one moment
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[23:13] <comradegarry> can the rpi0w play audio from bluetooth or does it need extra packages to be installed(raspbian)
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[23:14] <this_self> hm it's works
[23:15] <this_self> but I cannot set 0 to stop servo
[23:16] <gordonDrogon> gpio -g mode 4 in
[23:16] <this_self> then i set 5000hz it's instantly change rotation speed. When I send 500khz, it's instantly increase speed
[23:17] <gordonDrogon> so is that good for you?
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[23:17] <this_self> but when after 500000 I try to set 50000... the engine changes speed after aboyt 1 second...(
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[23:17] <this_self> I mean not slow downgrading speed. I mean the servo reacts to downgrade speed after about 1 second.
[23:18] <gordonDrogon> it's hard to know what to do/suggest/say when you're 1000 miles away and can't see it.
[23:18] <gordonDrogon> if I was testing it myself, I'd connect a 'scope to the output pin and see if the pin changes frequency when you hit the enter key.
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[23:19] <gordonDrogon> there is nothing in the gpio program that introduces the delay.
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[23:20] <this_self> I think the same that it is the problem in engine controller. Need to check it using oscilloscope
[23:20] <gordonDrogon> good luck - I'm off to bed.
[23:20] <this_self> I will check it on the next day. So, firstly THANK YOU A LOT for help and for direction me into clock mode of pwm
[23:21] <this_self> thank you for time and help! Will go into it deeper
[23:21] <gordonDrogon> it's not PWM!!!
[23:21] <this_self> it's program generating?
[23:21] <this_self> un low-level language into gpio?
[23:21] <this_self> in*
[23:21] <gordonDrogon> it's a clock output. a set frequency. nothing to do with PWM.
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[23:22] <gordonDrogon> the Pi can generate clocks of various frequencies - this is *exactly* what you need - not bodging a PWM output.
[23:22] <this_self> oh.. right. Will go deeper in gpio utility and try different methods.
[23:22] <this_self> yes. I think it enought.
[23:22] <this_self> and maximum stable
[23:22] <gordonDrogon> the maximum you'll get with the current gpio program is about 5MHz.
[23:22] <this_self> and prevent jitter because signal was not absent during 110 ms
[23:23] <this_self> I need 500khz maximum
[23:23] <gordonDrogon> it's 100�S.
[23:23] <gordonDrogon> check the code in wiringPi.c
[23:23] <this_self> yes. I cannot hold you anymore. Thanks you a lot for help!
[23:23] <gordonDrogon> Zzzzz
[23:23] <this_self> Good night to you! :)
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[23:47] <scott_tams> A freshly flashed, latest raspbian-lite.img won't boot when copied via dd. The ACT light flashes once, and then nothing.
[23:50] <starstuff> Does the raspberry pi project understand that it uses a hardware component that requires a non-free blob to boot linux? Why?
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[23:53] <scott_tams> I've actually wondered the same, but I assume the answer is probably that a free-hardware SoC is probably not realistic to use for some reason.
[23:53] * vcolombo (~vcolombo@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[23:53] * MarioBranco (~MarioBran@a213-22-165-8.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:53] <scott_tams> whoops too many probablies
[23:54] <scott_tams> also why won't raspbian boot on my B?
[23:56] * starstuff (322ed276@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:57] * metawave (~metawave@ Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[23:57] * codestorm (~codestorm@2605:e000:9196:e300:d553:1d87:d3dc:59f1) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:58] * fatalhalt (~fatalhalt@c-67-163-60-93.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:59] * this_self (~this_self@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)

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