#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2017-12-04

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:02] * leothrix (~leothrix@elastic/staff/leothrix) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[0:49] <herb_fargus> Simple Question of the day: I have some LED's attached to my pi via GPIO and I want it to listen in the background for button presses on my keyboard so that whenever I press any button on my keyboard it lights up an LED. I've been using the GPIOZero library, I've seen people recommending pygame, would that be the best way to handle passive listening for key presses?
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[1:04] <[Saint]> Best is subjective.
[1:04] <[Saint]> Best is often determined by the scope of the project.
[1:04] <[Saint]> Do you prefer any given language?
[1:05] * lexruee (~lexruee@243.140.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:05] <herb_fargus> not really but I've been using python cause I want to learn it
[1:05] <herb_fargus> done a bit of bash too
[1:06] <herb_fargus> I guess the other idea is to use interrupts instead of listening for events
[1:06] <[Saint]> That's The Right Way™
[1:08] * ravustaja (~ravustaja@178-55-226-230.bb.dnainternet.fi) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[1:09] <[Saint]> Well...
[1:10] <[Saint]> Really depends on how many events you're planning on listening for I guess.
[1:10] * oirot (~oirot@2.237.225.198) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:11] <[Saint]> I kinda figured one or two where the keys needn't be arbitrary.
[1:11] <[Saint]> But I suppose that assumes a lot.
[1:12] <herb_fargus> I'm mostly just doing it as a proof of concept more than anything particularly useful
[1:13] <herb_fargus> I was also thinking it might be cool to have lights blink when I press button on my gamepad but I think I'd need to find some kind of integration with evtest
[1:13] <mfa298> evdev might be the thing to look at, which you can use from many languages (including python)
[1:13] <herb_fargus> *evdev is what I meant
[1:14] <[Saint]> Well, pygame is a massive bloated whore of a module.
[1:14] <mfa298> evdev would work for a normal keyboard as well, I used it with some usb rfid readers that appear as a keyboard device a few years ago
[1:14] <[Saint]> pynput is what I'd lean towards.
[1:14] <[Saint]> But only as I know it and it's not a massive giant bloat-fest.
[1:15] <[Saint]> See: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pynput
[1:15] <[Saint]> It's very simple.
[1:16] * justdotJS_ (daff6b3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.255.107.62) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[1:16] <herb_fargus> yeah I try and stay away from massive bloated whores... I suppose evdev may handle controller cases better. curses seemed to be another option as well
[1:17] <herb_fargus> ideally I would like to avoid having to install extra python packages. but I think there may be only so much I can do before I'll need something more/ will need to learn how to actually code
[1:19] <[Saint]> As a bonus with pynput for the small footprint you can also watch and control mouse events as well as keyboard.
[1:19] <[Saint]> Not sure if that's valuable to you or not.
[1:21] <herb_fargus> was watching a guy who linked some sort of midi keyboard to a camera where it followed a flashlight and where it was pointing on the screen played higher or lower notes on the piano. kinda cool
[1:22] <herb_fargus> using the interrupt method also a tad unfortunate python3 doesn't have a raw input press any key thingamabob
[1:22] <mfa298> I wouldn't be surprised if pynput was a wrapper around evdev, but even if it is it probably makes doing things easier
[1:23] <mfa298> In most languages it's often worth finding libraries to handle some of the low level stuff for you, no point re-inventing the wheel
[1:23] <herb_fargus> yeah evdev looked pretty involved for some of my devices, might be a bit of a trick to make it adaptable to multiple devices
[1:24] <mfa298> the challenge is usually finding a decent library
[1:24] <herb_fargus> I have like 7 diff game controllers I use on my retropie
[1:25] * jmcp (~jmcp@mail.jmcpdotcom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[1:27] <herb_fargus> but yeah maybe I'll try pynput
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[1:38] <herb_fargus> 10 points for me
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[1:50] <[Saint]> Are you just a stickler for having the right controller for the right emu?
[1:50] <[Saint]> I have several dozen emulators and precisely one controller
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[2:24] <herb_fargus> I have a lot for testing since I do a bit of dev on the project. I generally just use my xbox 360 controller though
[2:24] <herb_fargus> also pynput isn't going to work since I don't use X
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[3:18] <peerce> so... i've got a couple pi3's i've been usign for appliance kinda things... lost 2 microSD cards this past month, both were 32GB SanDisk Ultra... both show random corrupted bits all over the place.
[3:18] <peerce> guessing they didn't like the syslog stuff being written to them,e specially the one running WeeWX (a weather station app)
[3:19] <peerce> anyone tried the SanDisk High Endurance uSD cards?
[3:19] <peerce> are they worht the nearly double price?
[3:20] * blackwind_123 (~IceChat9@59.99.107.44) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[3:25] * medium_cool (~medium_co@67-2-194-254.slkc.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[3:26] * MajPotatohead (~harold@unaffiliated/majpotatohead) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:27] * Aranel[Pi] is now known as Aranel
[3:33] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-3872-A38A-7E16-AD7C.dyn6.twc.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:34] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-65-221.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[3:38] * akk (~akkana@75-161-91-17.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: +++)
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[3:49] <Zardoz> peerce: they are made for heavy use applications so it might help. I know people that use dash cams tend to get them for that.
[3:49] * feksclaus1 (~feksclaus@80-71-131-204.u.parknet.dk) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
[3:50] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-AD5D-50C5-8263-A80A.dyn6.twc.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[3:58] * wgas (~wgas@unaffiliated/wgas) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:59] <peerce> mildly annoying, but when I offloaded syslog (to a jail on my FreeNAS), the app on the pi, weewx, would hang if I had to reboot the NAS, and if I forgot to check and restart weewx, I'd lose weather data for the duration
[4:00] * wgas (~wgas@unaffiliated/wgas) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:00] <peerce> i suppose I should look into what it takes on rasbian to move /var/log to a tempfs/ramdisk
[4:01] * Martle_ (~Martle@c-71-56-254-5.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[4:11] * iFlip721 (~iFllip721@pool-74-110-180-3.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) Quit ()
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[9:18] <mlelstv> what cooling method is currently en vogue for the rpi3 ?
[9:18] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-65-221.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[9:19] <peerce> they need cooling?
[9:19] <peerce> i have one in a metal diecast case, the other in a plastic case, neither seems to ever get warm
[9:19] <mlelstv> rpi3 needs cooling if used
[9:20] <peerce> the diecast case has a heat post for the cpu with a pad
[9:21] <[Saint]> mlelstv: that's categorically untrue.
[9:21] <mlelstv> not sure if that is sufficient, I guess it needs a fan.
[9:21] <[Saint]> it's perfectly capable of its own thermal management.
[9:21] <mlelstv> lets call it 'management' :)
[9:21] <mlelstv> it clocks down when running too hot.
[9:21] <[Saint]> So...like every other SoC ever, then.
[9:21] <[Saint]> Right. Cool story.
[9:21] <mlelstv> and I like to prevent that so that it can keep best speed
[9:22] <peerce> what are you trying to do, video transcoding or something 100% numeric compute bound ?
[9:22] <mlelstv> wouldn't you say that it then needs cooling? :)
[9:22] <[Saint]> No.
[9:22] <mlelstv> peerce, compiling software
[9:22] <peerce> thats generally pretty IO bound
[9:22] <mlelstv> isn't
[9:22] <mlelstv> not even close
[9:22] <peerce> the pi has *slow* IO
[9:23] <mlelstv> so?
[9:23] <mlelstv> the compilers today are bloated and cpu hungry :)
[9:23] <peerce> why are you compiling /on/ the pi and not cross compiling ? its not got enough ram for a decent development environment, OR the io facilities to support it
[9:23] <mlelstv> a single busy core heats up to about 72C. All four course go beyond 80 and it slows down.
[9:24] <[Saint]> If you really must, raise the thermal throttle threshold.
[9:24] <mlelstv> because not everything cross-compiles
[9:24] <[Saint]> Nearly everything on the board is rated to ~120C
[9:24] <peerce> the flirc metal case I have does fine for cooling
[9:25] <mlelstv> peerce, would you run a test with cpuburn to see how good the cooling works?
[9:25] <peerce> i had my sd cards croak, waiting for new ones :-/
[9:25] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[9:26] <peerce> both 32gb uSD Ultra cards are full of random bad bits and can't even be formatted
[9:30] * supajerm (~supajerm@c-73-176-202-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[9:30] <mlelstv> weird
[9:31] <mlelstv> never seen an SD card with random bad bits
[9:31] <peerce> well, these cards were in use for almost 2 years, running server apps. I think they exceeded the write cycle lifetime of the uSD cards but since there's nothing like SMART on a sd card, not much you can tell
[9:32] * Damni (~Damni@host108-72-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0)
[9:32] <mlelstv> possible
[9:33] * [diablo] (~textual@unaffiliated/miles/x-000000001) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:35] <peerce> i know one of them was syslogging about 8 lines every 2 minutes
[9:35] <peerce> I should have put /var/log in tmpfs
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[9:45] <gordonDrogon> peerce, syslog to a remote server.
[9:46] <gordonDrogon> or just turn syslogging off, if you never read the logs.
[9:46] <peerce> gorgon; i had that setup but it was annoying that the server app (my weather station server) would hang if the syslog server was rebooted.
[9:46] <peerce> and I'd forget and lose a days weather readings
[9:47] <gordonDrogon> that's not a syslog issue, it's a database issue - your weather app. ought to be storing data in a remote database...
[9:47] <peerce> the logs are handy for debugging when things aren't working, but log to tmpfs would be fine
[9:47] <peerce> well, its posting the weather to web pages
[9:48] <peerce> http://new.freescruz.com/weewx/ (stale because the rasppi is down)
[9:48] <gordonDrogon> in th new year I'll be re-starting my own weather project.
[9:48] <peerce> anyways, zzzzzzzzzzzzz
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[10:06] <mlelstv> .oO( mmm, own weather )
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[10:34] * gordonDrogon fx: click: snow :)
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[10:56] <mfa298> peerce: remote syslog is normally udp based and it's push from client only (so the client would have no idea and doesn't care if the server is there or listening) - I wonder if you're getting confused with something else (nfs can make the client hang for a while and file handles need to be reopened if the server restarts)
[10:59] * shantorn (~shantorn@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[11:04] * RoBo_V (~robo@27.255.218.164) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[11:04] * RoBo_V1 is now known as RoBo_V
[11:05] * r00ter (~r00ter@93.223.37.167) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:07] <gordonDrogon> mfa298, I know - but it sould like peerce is doing something more...
[11:07] * r00ter (~r00ter@p5DDF25A7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:08] * r00ter (~r00ter@p5DDF25A7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Client Quit)
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[11:09] * shantorn (~W7SAK-Sha@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:10] * shantorn (~W7SAK-Sha@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[11:15] <mlelstv> mfa298, syslog can be TCP and uses TCP for some time and then can fail.
[11:16] <mlelstv> mmm, cairo is hot
[11:16] <mlelstv> temperature: 83.820 85.000 degC
[11:17] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[11:22] * DJDan (~DJDan@115-64-177-188.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:27] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[11:30] * mujjingun (uid228218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zsngotiitykydcsh) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[11:33] * cybrian (~b@ibeep.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:34] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-65-221.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:41] * invisible_reject is now known as Silent_Screams
[11:44] * nattyrice (~nattyrice@c-75-70-216-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:44] <nattyrice> Hello :D
[11:44] * m92 (~m92@karaburma-p2p-3dnet-fe0.mediaworksit.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:45] * Silversword (~silverswo@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:46] * immibis (~chatzilla@122-59-204-185.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[11:46] * Silversword (~silverswo@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:48] <nattyrice> Can anybody speak to their experience using nodejs on rpi? Maybe even specifically the rpi2?
[11:48] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:49] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:49] <nattyrice> I am looking into setting up a local development web server using my rpi2 and i don't know if i should install the standard node v8 core build or look into nodejs build with js engines specifically meant for IoT devices
[11:49] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:50] * BOKALDO (~BOKALDO@81.198.156.32) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[11:51] * nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) Quit (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
[11:54] * nattyrice (~nattyrice@c-75-70-216-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:55] * mine9 (~wtf_over@c-24-22-38-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:55] * gloomy (~gloomy@nata102.ugent.be) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[11:57] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-78-102-201-117.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[11:59] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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[12:00] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777dd7e053-CM64777dd7e050.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:02] <gordonDrogon> why piv2 and not piv3?
[12:03] <ShorTie> maybe no money to buy a rpi3 ??
[12:05] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[12:06] <gordonDrogon> not sure the v2's are actually easy to get now.
[12:06] <gordonDrogon> they're essentially the same as the v3 now without the wi-fi chip.
[12:07] <ShorTie> didn't notice where he said he was gonna buy any thing
[12:07] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:08] <gordonDrogon> and gone offline now, so we'll never know.
[12:11] * m92 (~m92@karaburma-p2p-3dnet-fe0.mediaworksit.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:12] * iNCoNFuN (~inconfun@22.red-88-4-137.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:13] * cybrian (~b@ibeep.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:13] * iNCoNFuN (~inconfun@22.red-88-4-137.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:16] * SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:16] <mfa298> I assumed 'using my rpi2' means he's already got it rather than buying a new one
[12:17] * Dragon092 (~Dragon@2001:4ba0:ffa4:298::) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:21] * shantorn (~W7SAK-Sha@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:23] * shantorn (~W7SAK-Sha@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[12:27] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0)
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[12:28] * aliasunknown (~aliasunkn@bl8-248-215.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:29] * Lyrico (~AnimalCha@b2b-92-50-82-98.unitymedia.biz) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:29] <Lyrico> Heya there
[12:30] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) Quit (Client Quit)
[12:30] <Lyrico> Is anybody here, who wants to help me with a VGA 666 Adapter Board? I'm not sure, how to bring it to life
[12:31] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:31] * m0j0dj0dj0 (~punk3r@unaffiliated/m0j0dj0dj0) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:32] * genericuser123 (~enter@43.225.32.90) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:37] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777dd7e053-CM64777dd7e050.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:37] * Silent_Screams is now known as Invisible_Tormen
[12:38] * Invisible_Tormen is now known as InvisibleTorment
[12:40] * DrJ (~DrJ@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drj) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[12:40] <Lyrico> Still need help :)
[12:43] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:44] <gordonDrogon> Lyrico, you plug it in, change /boot/config.txt and reboot.
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[12:45] * nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:46] * RaTTuS|BIG (~RaTTuSBIG@37.152-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) Quit ()
[12:49] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[12:53] * mschorm (mschorm@nat/redhat/x-zieespaoggzdugwc) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:55] * torchic_ (~noturboo@i.am.phantas.tk) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:56] <Lyrico> @gordonDrogon: It is plugged in. What do I have to edit in the config.txt? What I found is, that I have to add:
[12:56] * ravustaja (~ravustaja@178-55-226-230.bb.dnainternet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:56] * ravustaj1 (~ravustaja@178-55-226-230.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:56] <Lyrico> dtoverlay=vga666
[12:56] <Lyrico> enable_dpi_lcd=1
[12:56] <Lyrico> display_default_lcd=1
[12:58] <Lyrico> I installed Debian on startup btw
[12:58] <Lyrico> Raspbian...
[12:58] <Lyrico> Time for coffee ._.
[12:58] * DrJ (~DrJ@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drj) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] * gloomy (~gloomy@nata104.ugent.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:01] * uks (~uksio@p2003008DAC6716CA3819F250BD1AF6EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:01] * uda (sid143461@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mjmygaraghrjsswr) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[13:02] * InvisibleTorment is now known as LiesAllLies
[13:03] <gordonDrogon> I've seen them working, but never used one myself.
[13:03] <gordonDrogon> I think I might even have one - Gert gave me one way back when he first made it.
[13:03] * uksio (~uksio@p2003008DAC67164A35228AF3658059D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[13:03] <gordonDrogon> I much preferred to use a simple hdmi -> vga converter. Just worked for me.
[13:05] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:06] <Lyrico> Yes, that would be the easy way, but my boss ordered the VGA666 Board and now I have to deal with it
[13:06] * LiesAllLies is now known as SufferingInSilen
[13:07] * SufferingInSilen is now known as SufferingSilence
[13:07] * seranhom (~nope@h77-53-215-28.cust.se.alltele.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[13:11] * RaTTuS|BIG (~RaTTuSBIG@37.152-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:11] * ChanServ sets mode +o RaTTuS|BIG
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[13:11] <Lyrico> Right now I'm tinkering with these informations: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=94424
[13:12] * SufferingSilence is now known as Sucker4Pain
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[13:33] <Love4Boobies> Hey. Can anyone suggest a Linux distro for the Raspberry, for casual PC-like use? Raspbian sucks - it hangs often, it corrupts my files every now and then, and has all sorts of annoying bugs I keep running into.
[13:35] * Vonter (~Vonter@106.51.104.166) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:38] <Love4Boobies> The corrupt file bit might be due to the fact that it uses an SD card, to be fair. But in that case, there's not much of a solution.
[13:38] <oq> umm, you want something *better* than raspbian?
[13:38] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:38] <Love4Boobies> Yeah, I was afraid of an answer like that. :)
[13:38] <Love4Boobies> I guess I should throw the Pi into the garbage can.
[13:39] <oq> what's your usecase?
[13:39] <oq> desktop? server?
[13:39] <Love4Boobies> Desktop. I won't have my laptop for a few days so I'm forced to use my Pi 3 for a couple of days.
[13:40] <Love4Boobies> But it's really, really unreliable.
[13:40] * BrokenOne is now known as AtntSeek
[13:41] * sdothum (~znc@108.63.119.33) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:41] <oq> pis in general make for terrible desktops
[13:41] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:42] <Love4Boobies> It's not by choice, as I've explained. :)
[13:42] <Love4Boobies> I don't use it for much, though. Just coding and maybe some light browsing.
[13:42] * AtntSeek is now known as NameShifter
[13:43] <Love4Boobies> But I can't code if my files get mangled all the time (even my .vimrc contains garbage).
[13:43] <Love4Boobies> Thank god for github.
[13:43] <zleap> or backups
[13:43] <Love4Boobies> Well, github is essentially my backup.
[13:44] <oq> from the sounds if it I would guess it's a hardware issue. Perhaps your sd card isn't that good or your psu isn't powerful enough
[13:44] <Love4Boobies> It's the official adapter for the Pi.
[13:44] <Love4Boobies> And it's the SD card that came with it.
[13:45] <Love4Boobies> I've had a Pi 2 Model B+ before and it was just as terrible.
[13:45] <oq> pis don't ship with sd cards
[13:45] <oq> unless you bought a bundle from someone
[13:45] * seranhom (~nope@h77-53-215-28.cust.se.alltele.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:45] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[13:45] <Love4Boobies> Yes, I bought the NOOBS bundle.
[13:46] <Love4Boobies> It was from their Web site.
[13:46] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[13:47] <red9> Love4Boobies, What's the problem with Pi 2 Model B+ ?
[13:47] * seranhom (~nope@h77-53-215-28.cust.se.alltele.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:48] <Love4Boobies> Similar issues to what I've described.
[13:49] <Love4Boobies> Why are you focusing on the 2 B+? Is model 3 known to have more problems?
[13:50] <Love4Boobies> It sounded like you took that part for granted, but perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you meant.
[13:50] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:50] <Love4Boobies> Or perhaps that's the one you have.
[13:50] * seranhom (~nope@h77-53-215-28.cust.se.alltele.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:50] * DrBlackskull (~DrBlacksk@starfish.nyi.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:50] * NameShifter is now known as TheTroll
[13:51] * TheTroll is now known as No1
[13:51] <red9> Love4Boobies, Isn't the problem with the software (Raspbian) rather than with the hardware?
[13:51] * malmalmal (~malmalmal@209.red-88-26-113.staticip.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:52] * No1 is now known as Guest17341
[13:52] * DrBlackskull (~DrBlacksk@starfish.nyi.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:52] <Love4Boobies> It's possible. Most likely, the problem is a problem even when operating normally. :)
[13:52] <Love4Boobies> But, eh, $35.
[13:53] <Love4Boobies> I can't complain.
[13:53] * Guest17341 is now known as NoOne
[13:53] <Love4Boobies> the hardware* is a problem when...
[13:53] <red9> Love4Boobies, I'll guess you have checked for power supply issues?
[13:53] <Love4Boobies> Well, I tried two power supplies, including the official one.
[13:54] <Love4Boobies> I don't think it's a voltage drop issue. I haven't seen the icon in the corner of the screen.
[13:54] * NoOne is now known as NoWon
[13:55] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
[13:55] * ktsamis (ktsamis@nat/novell/x-ecogjkrwyoktnlyl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:55] <Love4Boobies> It's possible my files get corrupted because I'm forced to unplug the thing when it hangs (and it does so often).
[13:56] <Love4Boobies> So it's possibly not the SD card at all.
[13:57] <Love4Boobies> Btw, is it possible to boot via USB or PXE?
[13:57] * ktsamis (ktsamis@nat/novell/x-dfprbhmemsfiweeu) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:58] * mimer (~Mimer@unaffiliated/mimer) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:58] <red9> Love4Boobies, The choice of filesystem and the code quality of Raspian seems to be the issue.
[13:58] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[14:01] * TheSin (~TheSin@d199-126-166-83.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[14:01] <red9> Some filesystems handles sudden interruptions badly.
[14:01] * cybrian (~b@ibeep.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:03] <Love4Boobies> I use ext4 on my laptop but I have no idea what's on this SD card. I'm pretty sure there's a FAT32 partition but I don't know what else.
[14:03] * tsglove (~tsglove@12.205.72.46) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:14] * Vonter (~Vonter@106.51.104.166) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[14:19] * mSSM (~SuperFluf@unaffiliated/superfluffy) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:19] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[14:19] * shantorn (~shantorn@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] * cybrian (~b@ibeep.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:20] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-96-242-33-53.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:20] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[14:21] * NoWon is now known as silent
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[14:21] * silent is now known as Guest78755
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[14:26] * malmalmal (~malmalmal@209.red-88-26-113.staticip.rima-tde.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:27] * aballier (~alexis@gentoo/developer/aballier) has joined #raspberrypi
[14:28] * HerculeP (~odroid@p57857406.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[14:31] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[14:32] * Very_slow (~dewrock@CPEc412f5da6ef1-CM84948c4b03d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[14:32] * Hitechcg (~Hitechcg@76.1.168.74) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[14:35] * ahrs (~quassel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ahrs) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:35] * TechSmurf (~jdaniel@unaffiliated/techsmurf) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[14:39] * dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[14:40] * mine9 (~wtf_over@c-24-22-38-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: [IRSSI] Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent - Victor Hugo)
[14:43] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-65-221.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[14:46] * toxync21 (~toxync21@121.22.249.102) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[14:53] * HerculeP (~odroid@p20030006030E7441B9E484834D2DDFCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:56] * Guest78755 is now known as empty
[14:56] * empty is now known as empty0
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[15:01] * ChanServ sets mode +o gordonDrogon
[15:02] * Love4Boobies was kicked from #raspberrypi by gordonDrogon
[15:03] * lksz (~lksz@217-67-201-162.itsa.net.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[15:03] * ChanServ sets mode -o gordonDrogon
[15:06] * mentalita (~mentalita@unaffiliated/mentalita) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:06] * Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@541A8950.cm-5-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:07] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[15:13] * Ilyas (uid43013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pvftldwkhpikljbp) has joined #raspberrypi
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[15:47] <BurtyB> ali1234, looks like they're release some docs on usbbootgui - https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/gpio-expander/
[15:47] <ali1234> sweet
[15:48] <red9> so Pi will boot from USB?
[15:48] <BurtyB> red9, Pi Zero has booted (as a usb device) for ages
[15:48] <ali1234> i did it with the A+
[15:49] <ali1234> and it was done before that on the compute module
[15:49] * BurtyB tried but I couldn't get the kernel to work properly :/
[15:49] <BurtyB> (on the A+ that is)
[15:49] <ali1234> yeah i never got it to work properly either. i got a busybox shell once though
[15:49] * konrados (~konrados@unaffiliated/konrados) has left #raspberrypi
[15:49] * BurtyB is still having problem doing the same on the CM3 but such is life heh
[15:50] <ali1234> that blog post mentions udev rules... good, someone was listening to me (or had the same idea)
[15:51] <ali1234> no repos yet though :(
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[15:53] <red9> How about PXE boot?
[15:53] <ali1234> how about it?
[15:53] <ali1234> it works, sometimes...
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[15:56] <red9> ali1234, Is it possible to networkboot without any USB-memory or SD-card ?
[15:56] <ali1234> yes, but the firmware is buggy
[15:56] <BurtyB> and if you get lucky with your network switch
[15:56] <ali1234> yeah
[15:57] <ali1234> that one applies even with newer bootcode.bin tho
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[15:57] <ali1234> it still doesn't work right for me, unless i log in to my switch and make it send broadcast pings
[15:58] <BurtyB> only one I have which worked is an old netgear router with builtin switch so I gave up heh
[15:59] <ali1234> funnily enough i am also using a netgear
[15:59] <red9> How does one tell the RPi to network boot if there's nowhere to store configuration?
[15:59] <ali1234> another way to make it work is to always have a windows machine connected to the switch :(
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[15:59] <ali1234> red9: you program the OTP fuses
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[16:00] <red9> "Microsoft free zone" ;)
[16:00] * silversword_afk is now known as Silversword
[16:00] <BurtyB> red9, https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/net_tutorial.md
[16:00] * empty0 is now known as clueless
[16:00] <red9> ali1234: That would mean it's something one can only do once and not regrett?
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[16:01] * clueless is now known as emptysoul
[16:01] <ali1234> yes
[16:01] <ali1234> it doesn't harm anything to do it though you can still boot from SD
[16:01] <ali1234> it is the same setting as enabling USB boot
[16:01] <ali1234> and you can do either by putting bootcode.bin on an SD card and not reprogramming
[16:01] <ali1234> and that works better anyway cos its a newer and less buggy firmware than the one in ROM
[16:02] <red9> Will it prioritize networkboot over USB-boot?
[16:02] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:02] <ali1234> no
[16:02] <ali1234> SD -> USB -> PXE
[16:02] <red9> seems resonable.
[16:02] <ali1234> there's a couple of others too but im not sure where they rank or even how to use them
[16:02] <red9> No way to upgrade the ROM?
[16:02] <red9> (I'll suspect it's EEPROM called "ROM")
[16:02] <ali1234> only by putting a newer bootcode.bin on an SD card
[16:03] <ali1234> it is mask ROM
[16:03] <ali1234> it cannot be modified, ever
[16:03] * MrMojit0 (~MrMojit0@194.171.91.248) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:03] <red9> Well high precision gamma-ray ought to do it. Complicated however ;)
[16:03] <CoJaBo> It can, and you don't even need gamma rays
[16:04] <CoJaBo> You still need some pretty nasty acids, a laser, and a special microscope
[16:06] <red9> My gamma idea was to use it through a unmodified chip. The plastic is quite transparent.
[16:07] <red9> anyway.. I can think of other boot modes. Like via SPI etc.
[16:07] <ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq7GaO8iqu8
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[16:09] <red9> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq7GaO8iqu8 - Levitating DIAMONDS with a laser beam!!
[16:10] <CoJaBo> red9: spi?
[16:10] <ali1234> yeah i think SPI eeprom is another boot method
[16:10] <ali1234> also NAND flash on SMI
[16:11] <CoJaBo> are those documented?
[16:11] <pwillard> Or like the beagle... employ eMMC
[16:11] <ali1234> not that i know of
[16:12] <ali1234> eMMC is just an 8 bit SD card
[16:12] <pwillard> with embedded controller
[16:12] <ali1234> SD cards have an embedded controller...
[16:14] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:15] <ali1234> anyway, the full 8 bit MMC controller is available on GPIO, so you can make an eMMC HAT if you want, and it should just work
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[16:22] <Tenkawa> hi all
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[16:29] <PocketKnife> morning
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[16:30] <red9> BurtyB, Does the networkboot OTP option exist for RPi 2 as well?
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[16:32] <ali1234> it doesn't
[16:32] <ali1234> but you can still use bootcode.bin on SD card method
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[16:38] <Tenkawa> wow the rpi3 makes a really good headless jujebox
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[16:38] <Tenkawa> heheheh
[16:39] <Tenkawa> er jukebox
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[16:39] <Tenkawa> I built one for myself and now I keep adding on to it
[16:40] <ali1234> for headless audio, a zero would do fine :)
[16:41] <Tenkawa> ali1234: true..
[16:41] <Tenkawa> but theres still some latency
[16:41] <Tenkawa> I think it might get with the decode
[16:41] <Tenkawa> with some audio
[16:42] <red9> zero does networkboot without local storage?
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[16:42] <Tenkawa> I am just having a lot of fun still
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[16:43] <zleap> does the pi stop work with the gpipzero library ?
[16:43] <Tenkawa> never find something to stop working on heheh
[16:43] <zleap> D
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[16:52] <waveform> zleap, the pi-stop should work with gpiozero though given it can be fitted in several locations you will have to specify pins manually
[16:53] <waveform> (or "locations" if you're using the PiStop class itself)
[16:53] * akk (~akkana@75-161-91-17.albq.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] <waveform> http://gpiozero.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api_boards.html#pi-stop
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[17:06] <zleap> so i use the pin numbers ?
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[17:14] <Montrr> Hey guys, I'm trying to install php onto my rasperry pi and its not working. I've tried every tutorial I could find. Upon going to a .php page it just lists the code as plain text. Using Apache. How do I resolve this?.
[17:16] * cute_korean_girl (~PATTI@24-247-163-68.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:17] <Tenkawa> Montrr: let me look up something..I think you have to enable it too in the config dont you?
[17:17] <red9> .htaccess is another
[17:18] <Montrr> I donnt know. this is my first attempt and its not going well.
[17:18] <Tenkawa> you load the module.. then associate the extension... (been a long time since I did this)
[17:18] <zleap> does the pi stop work with the gpipzero library ?
[17:18] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[17:19] <Tenkawa> which tutorial are you using?
[17:19] <Tenkawa> do you have the url handy?
[17:19] <Montrr> tenkawa: I've tried them all honestly. this is the latest. https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/projects/lamp-web-server-with-wordpress
[17:19] <Tenkawa> let me take a look real quick
[17:20] <Montrr> Thanks, I can't install php 5. php7 is installed. I think that is the biggest clue I have.
[17:21] <Tenkawa> install the equivilent of php5 libapache2-mod-php5
[17:21] <Tenkawa> so php7 etc...
[17:22] <Tenkawa> libapache2-mod-php7
[17:22] <waveform> zleap, you *can* use pin numbers if you're using the TrafficLights class (http://gpiozero.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api_boards.html#trafficlights) or you can use PiStops "locations" if you're using the PiStop class (http://gpiozero.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api_boards.html#pi-stop) - the locations are documented at https://github.com/PiHw/Pi-Stop/blob/master/markdown_source/markdown/Discover-PiStop.md
[17:22] <Tenkawa> do those both exist and are installable?
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[17:23] <Montrr> E: Unable to locate package libapache2-mod-php7
[17:23] <Montrr> php -v
[17:23] <Montrr> PHP 7.0.19-1 (cli) (built: May 11 2017 14:04:47) ( NTS )
[17:24] <Montrr> libapache2-mod-php7.0 is already the newest version (7.0.19-1).
[17:24] <Tenkawa> ok
[17:24] <Montrr> looks like i got your 2 suggestions
[17:24] <Tenkawa> thats good
[17:25] * gluon_ is now known as gluon
[17:25] <Tenkawa> in a terminal restart apache
[17:26] <Tenkawa> sudo service apache2 restart
[17:27] <Tenkawa> then go over to /var/www/html
[17:27] <Tenkawa> we're going to create a test page
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[17:28] <Montrr> still the same. my index.php page shows the code text
[17:28] <Tenkawa> show me output of ls -l index.php
[17:29] <Montrr> -rw-r--r-- 1 nobody nogroup 52 Dec 4 03:15 index.php
[17:29] <Tenkawa> ok
[17:29] <Tenkawa> chmod 755 index.php
[17:30] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] <Tenkawa> then try going to that page again
[17:30] <Tenkawa> any change?
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[17:30] <Tenkawa> you might have to also chown it too but we'll try that mext
[17:30] <Tenkawa> er next
[17:31] <Montrr> yep. +rwxr
[17:31] <Tenkawa> I mean.. in the browser any change
[17:31] <Tenkawa> I knew that part would change heehee
[17:31] <Montrr> oh, no. still text only
[17:31] <Tenkawa> ok
[17:32] <Tenkawa> lets go check something
[17:32] <Tenkawa> go look in /var/log
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[17:34] <Tenkawa> Montrr: I'm going to create a #raspberrypi-2 channel to work on this.. that ok with yyou?
[17:34] <Tenkawa> i dont want to spam everyone
[17:34] <Montrr> yeah, lets go :)
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[17:37] <zleap> ok got it working now, thanks
[17:37] <aliasunknown> Hello everyone
[17:38] <aliasunknown> I have been having some issues that are more electronic but since I am using a Pi I would like to ask some questions
[17:38] <aliasunknown> I am using a serial (rs232) breakout modem
[17:38] <aliasunknown> https://www.itead.cc/wiki/SIM900/SIM900A_GSM/GPRS_Minimum_System_Module
[17:39] <aliasunknown> From what I understand this device's uart talks 5V
[17:39] * Gathis (~TheBlack@unaffiliated/gathis) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:39] <aliasunknown> So I am using a sparkfun Max3232 breakout board
[17:39] <aliasunknown> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11189
[17:39] <aliasunknown> which is a rs232 to ttl converter
[17:39] <aliasunknown> I am not really sure whats the difference between this and a "level shifter"....
[17:40] <aliasunknown> but here comes the question
[17:40] <aliasunknown> I cannot get the pi to talk to the modem via the breakout board
[17:40] <aliasunknown> I know that my wiring and the breakout board work because I used my laptop with a usb rs232 converter -> breakout board->pi
[17:40] <aliasunknown> and I was able to talk back and forth no problem
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[17:41] <aliasunknown> I hooked up my really old analog osciloscope and saw that the TX on the modem was "pulling down" to -5v when transmitting
[17:41] <aliasunknown> any ideas on what is going on?
[17:41] * malmalmal (~malmalmal@209.red-88-26-113.staticip.rima-tde.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[17:41] <aliasunknown> I have more details and experiments and tests I have run
[17:42] <aliasunknown> I suspect that the sparkfun breakout board is not exactly what we need OR it is not "setup" for this kind of usage, eg.. changing the cap values changes some of the behavior
[17:45] <aliasunknown> My guess is that the max3232 is not configured for -5v or its not even supposed to be used with this modem
[17:45] <aliasunknown> idk
[17:45] <aliasunknown> im learning
[17:45] <aliasunknown> this is more an electronics question but i figured since i use it for a pi i should ask
[17:46] <aliasunknown> actually I came here before because I used to connect the modem directly to the pi's uart
[17:46] <aliasunknown> on the pi2 no problems
[17:46] <aliasunknown> pi1 or zero them release the magic blue smoke
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[17:47] <aliasunknown> I have been reading about serial and UART but man.... its has a lot of variations and "gotcha"
[17:47] <aliasunknown> I have resorted to using a USB gprs modem but that consumes a lot of power
[17:48] <aliasunknown> I realise that the pi is only 3.3v toleralent
[17:48] <aliasunknown> I feel like this is a stupid question
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[17:55] <tristero> aliasunknown: I don't think you need 5V TTL. Your USB-serial converter almost certainly uses 3.3V, and it's working. So try connecting the module's UART RX and TX directly to the Pi's TX and RX.
[17:56] <aliasunknown> Another question that could solve my problem is, does anybody know of a serial or i2c gprs modem? I don't care about size, more worried about being able to ppp and wammu sms at the same time with the least power consumption.
[17:56] <tristero> (some searches turn up a selectable voltage level on these modules, maybe yours has one?)
[17:56] <aliasunknown> sorry, the usb serial converter was only a test to prove that I had the max3232 break out borad properly connected
[17:57] <aliasunknown> I have the pi -> break out board -> serial modem
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[17:58] <aliasunknown> im ok with breakout boards or similar because eventually it would be nice to integrate the celluar module into our PCB
[17:58] <tristero> right, I'm suggesting skipping the breakout board entirely
[17:58] <aliasunknown> right now im looking for quick proof of concept
[17:58] * shantorn (~shantorn@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:59] <tristero> there are lots of pages on how to hook up SIM900 to Arduino, it's basically the same for RPi
[17:59] <aliasunknown> yea but the gpio on the pi is only 3.3v tolerant
[17:59] <aliasunknown> thus the max3232 break out board and whether i need a different level shifter
[18:00] <gordonDrogon> aliasunknown, stop making life hard just buy a USB 4G modem and be done with it.
[18:00] <aliasunknown> I have one but i want to avoid usb because of consumption
[18:00] <aliasunknown> I have huwawei with hilink which I is working
[18:01] <aliasunknown> but it sucks up power. I am considering only connecting periodically or using serial mode
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[18:02] * Dave_MMP is now known as djsxxx_away
[18:02] <BurtyB> so you have a SIM900 module that's converting to proper rs232 levels, then you're converting back to 3v3 with the max3232?
[18:03] <aliasunknown> and as far as skipping the breakout board, we have our own PCB photo resist boards but our experience with "noise" and filtering is little
[18:03] <aliasunknown> yes
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[18:04] <aliasunknown> a Sim900 breakout board... I think it might "do something" with the rs232 from the module. In other words it does not behave exactly like the datasheet because of the "itead breakout extras" on the board
[18:05] <aliasunknown> All the pins on the breakout have some sort of component that i suspect is a level shifter... by why do I see -5v when it transmitts?
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[18:07] <gordonDrogon> aliasunknown, consumption? you think this board will be less power? I don't.
[18:07] <gordonDrogon> aliasunknown, however, make life easy for yourself and BUY a USB serial adapter.
[18:07] <BurtyB> telling us what board it is would help too
[18:07] <aliasunknown> https://www.itead.cc/wiki/SIM900/SIM900A_GSM/GPRS_Minimum_System_Module
[18:08] <aliasunknown> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11189
[18:09] <gordonDrogon> aliasunknown, https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12977
[18:10] <gordonDrogon> aliasunknown, this is to stop you asking how to make the on-board uart work on a Pi v3 ...
[18:10] <aliasunknown> @gordonDrogon I have a one. I am in the middle of power consumption tests with a 22Ah @C2 and conducting readings from the battery 12.9 to 10.7V at regular intervals
[18:10] <gordonDrogon> to which the answer is: don't use it, use usb serial instead.
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[18:10] <aliasunknown> So far I have tested 2 configurations with one in progress and yea, they seem to be similar
[18:10] <aliasunknown> ok
[18:11] <aliasunknown> isnt there "overhead" on the power consumption with the usb host active?
[18:11] <aliasunknown> if can deactivate the usb host i could have power savings
[18:11] <aliasunknown> maybe?
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[18:11] <aliasunknown> oh
[18:12] <aliasunknown> sorry I miss read that
[18:12] <aliasunknown> ok
[18:13] <aliasunknown> Thanks
[18:13] <aliasunknown> I knew it was going to be a "duh, do this answer"
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[18:18] <MarkusJ> aliasunknown: about RS-232 signal levels. You see -5V because the logic levels are +-5V
[18:20] <H__> should be 12V no ?
[18:21] <MarkusJ> 12V is also valid
[18:21] <MarkusJ> depends on the circuit
[18:21] <MarkusJ> can be anything from 5 to 15
[18:22] <aliasunknown> Uart can have a varaity of swings
[18:22] <aliasunknown> you can pass it thru a transformer and send over long cables for example
[18:23] <MarkusJ> yes but rs-232 has a standard
[18:23] <MarkusJ> or rather
[18:23] <MarkusJ> is a standard
[18:23] <aliasunknown> but i understand the sim module should be +-5v then why the max3232 no convert?
[18:23] <aliasunknown> i see.
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[18:23] <aliasunknown> as a standard should be +-5v
[18:24] <gordonDrogon> I don't think many people care about the standard these days - most of the time it's simple "ttl" rs-232..
[18:24] <gordonDrogon> or in the Pi and some other microcontrolers case 3.3v
[18:24] <aliasunknown> thats part of the confusion...
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[18:24] <aliasunknown> its almost, case by case bases
[18:24] <aliasunknown> the "better converter" are supposed to support wider swings
[18:25] <red9> The RS-232 standard specifies "1" = -15 .. -3 volt "0" = +3 .. +15 volt
[18:25] <gordonDrogon> most 5v stuff is ok with 3.3v into it - it's the other way that's the issues -and a simple resistor divider is fine - up to 100Kbps - maybe 1Mbps, above that the stuff starts getting weird.
[18:25] <aliasunknown> anyway... then way isnt the max3232 working?
[18:25] <gordonDrogon> have you put a 'scope on it?
[18:25] <MarkusJ> maybe you have it wired wrong?
[18:25] <gordonDrogon> only you can tell ..
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[18:25] <MarkusJ> T1in for pi and T1out for SIM900
[18:25] <MarkusJ> should work
[18:25] <aliasunknown> @gordonDrogon ?? serious i could just maybe a divder it would be ok?
[18:26] <aliasunknown> 115200?
[18:26] <red9> PC's usually output +/- 12 volt. 5/3 volt stuff is just asking for transmission errors.
[18:26] <gordonDrogon> aliasunknown, I've seen worse.
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[18:27] <aliasunknown> on the oscliscope i note that the "0" on TX and RX are a little different
[18:27] <gordonDrogon> aliasunknown, as long as you know how to make the serial port work on a Pi these days - personally I avoid it like the plague.
[18:27] <aliasunknown> on the RX i see +5
[18:27] <aliasunknown> its an old analog CRT scope but I can see the "traces"
[18:28] <aliasunknown> TX on the modem "pulls down"
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[18:28] <aliasunknown> -5
[18:28] <MarkusJ> aliasunknown: datasheet page 7 shows how to connect the max3232 https://cdn.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/General%20IC/SP3232EBCA-L.pdf
[18:28] <aliasunknown> but does not show up on the ttl side of the max3232
[18:28] <aliasunknown> replacing the modem with a usb converter it uses +5 and it works
[18:29] <MarkusJ> TX should be -5
[18:29] * BurtyB wouldn't expect the sim900 to want -5v on it's input or give it as an output
[18:30] <MarkusJ> if you send a logic 1 on rs232 it will be negative voltage
[18:30] <aliasunknown> Im confused... Let me turn on my scope
[18:31] <aliasunknown> either way, i use a usb converter instead of the max3232 it works
[18:31] <aliasunknown> @MarkusJ I need to spend some time reading this
[18:31] <BurtyB> MarkusJ, yes but the sim900 looks more like it's 5v as the module specs say max 5.5 (for VH) and min -0.3V (for VL) so -5V is a little beyond what it wants
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[18:33] <MarkusJ> ok
[18:33] <MarkusJ> let me check the datasheet
[18:35] <MarkusJ> ah
[18:35] <MarkusJ> you shouldn't need a level shifter for the pi
[18:35] <MarkusJ> only if you want to communicate with a pc
[18:36] <aliasunknown> i need to communicate with the pi
[18:36] <MarkusJ> so no need for a shifter
[18:36] <aliasunknown> the pc is only a sanity check
[18:36] <BurtyB> you'd want to shift befween 3v3 and 5v...
[18:36] <aliasunknown> yea
[18:36] <aliasunknown> ive been burning up pis
[18:36] <aliasunknown> the pi2 handles it but not the pi zero nor pi1
[18:36] <aliasunknown> a
[18:37] <MarkusJ> just power the sim900 with 3.3v
[18:37] <pwillard> MAX232 (and all level converters before it) were inverters.
[18:37] <pwillard> so they expect inverted logic to create the correct RS232 levels
[18:38] <MarkusJ> hmm
[18:38] <aliasunknown> @Markus didnt think about that
[18:38] <BurtyB> or don't as it says min 4.5v
[18:38] <MarkusJ> true i was looking just at the serial application note
[18:38] <MarkusJ> so dont
[18:38] <MarkusJ> power with 5v
[18:38] <MarkusJ> :D
[18:39] <MarkusJ> so page 6 at http://simcom.ee/documents/SIM900/SIM900_Serial%20Port_Application%20Note_V1.03.pdf
[18:39] <pwillard> and if nterfacing with GPIO pins... you want the MAX3232 http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/max3232.pdf not MAX232 which is a 5V part.
[18:40] <MarkusJ> you need to put those 10k resistors
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[18:43] <pwillard> max232 won't work ideally at 3.3v...
[18:43] <pwillard> max3232 will
[18:43] <aliasunknown> sorry typo. I am using a 3232
[18:43] <pwillard> ah... ok
[18:44] <aliasunknown> however I am also using a breakout board which already has some of those parts on it
[18:44] <pwillard> tricky
[18:44] <aliasunknown> its not a a header directly to the module
[18:44] <aliasunknown> yea
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[18:44] <MarkusJ> hmm.... according to the SIM900 serial application note it should output 0V for low databit and 2.8V for high data bit
[18:45] <ali1234> BurtyB: what's this about? "I think the limit is 6 USB endpoint. So if you go Mouse + Keyboard + Cluster HAT, you cannot add a USB key to the system."
[18:45] <MarkusJ> so there should be no problem for you to directly connect it to a pi
[18:46] <BurtyB> ali1234, did I say that?
[18:46] <aliasunknown> yea, the TX pin on the sim module is pulled high at 5v
[18:46] <ali1234> BurtyB: apparently
[18:46] <MarkusJ> aliasunknown: do you have the datasheet for the board that has the SIM900 module
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[18:47] <aliasunknown> the breakout boards has some "black box magic" and my interface to the module is +5V on the TX pin
[18:47] <aliasunknown> it "pulls down" on transmit
[18:47] <aliasunknown> the datasheet sucks
[18:47] <MarkusJ> no it doesnt
[18:47] <MarkusJ> :D
[18:47] <aliasunknown> its kinda "put together"
[18:48] <MarkusJ> the pure module itself outputs 0v and 2.8v
[18:48] <MarkusJ> you have some other setup after the module
[18:48] <aliasunknown> the SIM900 datasheet is good. the ITEAD SIM900 module datasheet sucks
[18:49] <aliasunknown> I need to look more close at the datasheet for the max3232 to make sure it understands this "inverted rs232"
[18:49] <aliasunknown> I don't
[18:49] <ali1234> BurtyB: not in those words though
[18:49] <aliasunknown> yea both TX/RX are at +5v
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[18:50] <BurtyB> ali1234, Pi supports 8 active endpoints - I imagine I was talking re my board with a controller + 8 slaves which stops working when you get to 6 Pi Zeros and a keyboard (works OK with NanoPi Neo)
[18:50] <MarkusJ> simcom produces the chip. Itead makes the board
[18:50] <ali1234> BurtyB: what does that mean though? can i plug in 9 keyboards for example?
[18:51] <aliasunknown> @MarkusJ yes
[18:51] <aliasunknown> and the itead documentation is, lacking
[18:51] <aliasunknown> so is my understanding of electronics because it not a complicated board
[18:51] <MarkusJ> so the chip outputs 0v and 2.8v and the board translates those to something else
[18:52] <aliasunknown> I needed some opinions
[18:52] <BurtyB> ali1234, yeah, it depends what they're doing - I've connected a load of usb serials OK but when they're all active it stops working (or is very slow)
[18:53] <aliasunknown> is a voltage divider safe?
[18:53] <ali1234> makes sense, thanks
[18:54] <aliasunknown> i mean, the pi uses 3.3v ttl, so can I just use a resistor and it be safe?
[18:58] <BurtyB> aliasunknown, I've used a 100k when feeding 5v to a Pi input (which should be OK due to the amount of current) but I wouldn't advise someone else to do it especially when the module says 3.5v is the min for VH it seems a little pointless
[19:01] <pwillard> Pulls down to transmit is 'normal'
[19:02] <MarkusJ> Yeah... so the ITEAD SIM900 Minimum System Module schematic shows that the board has a logic level shifters for the RX and TX. And they have it setup so that they output the VIN voltage
[19:02] <pwillard> Voltage dividers are most reliable when negligible load is applied and the load is constant. IN the case of pins and signals this is more often the case... than not.
[19:03] <pwillard> which is why you will see voltage dividers used in signal paths from GPIO... personally, I do it as a last resort a and never as a best practice.
[19:05] <aliasunknown> I undersand
[19:06] <aliasunknown> Its a quick and dirty for now
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[19:12] <aliasunknown> Does the pi care that the logic is "inverted"?
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[19:13] <aliasunknown> I guess not consedering that it works on the pi2 without a max3232 but maybe its detecting the rising edge instead?
[19:13] <MarkusJ> the uart doesnt but your data will be garbage
[19:13] <aliasunknown> but i dont get garbage...
[19:13] <MarkusJ> if 1 is 0 and 0 is 1
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[19:13] <aliasunknown> on a pi2 I can hook up the Itead module directly and it works
[19:13] <MarkusJ> you have to decode those
[19:14] <aliasunknown> oh, then its my misuse of the term
[19:14] <aliasunknown> either way, it works on a pi2 without any converters... but i get burned out pi1A and zero
[19:15] <MarkusJ> yeah that's because it outputs 5v
[19:15] <MarkusJ> the pi2 might have some safety
[19:15] <MarkusJ> but zero is so small that it takes space
[19:15] <MarkusJ> so there is no safety
[19:16] <MarkusJ> voltage divider should be ok
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[19:19] <MarkusJ> if you want a converter for this application the it is this https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12009
[19:19] <MarkusJ> max3232 is a rs232 converter
[19:19] <MarkusJ> that is a logic level converter
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[19:21] <Zardoz> depends if you are reading the leading edge or not. and if you are just counting then it's not going to matter to much ass you are just looking for the pulse.
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[19:43] <peerce> officially, RS232C, a output is supposed to be above +3 or below -3V, never in between. in reality, many RS232 *inputs* will treat anything <= 0V as being negative ('1' aka 'mark'), and over 1.5-2V as positive ('0' aka 'space'). so sometimes TTL just kinda works. very sloppy.
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[19:50] <pwillard> exactly
[19:51] <pwillard> and its is "supposed to be full swing of at least +/- 12V if you intend on getting "documented" distances at specific speeds.
[19:51] <peerce> also sloppy RS232 implementations won't work with longer cables, while proper ones will.
[19:53] <pwillard> you only use RS232 in your bedroom, right (so Microsoft thought... PC<->modem... only a few feet.) Try a computer room or office building of the 70's and 80's where people only had TTY connections to the back of a mainframe and that RS232 specification mattered.
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[19:55] <peerce> RS232B and later C predates Microsoft's existance.
[19:56] <peerce> and yeah, late 70s, our building was 'networked' with these T1 to 24 RS232 'switches', all to the data center. linkabit or something? I forget.
[19:57] <pwillard> Micom and Linkabit were 2 that I used to operate... so yea
[19:57] <peerce> every office had 2 RS232 circuits per desk to the nearest mux, the muxes all went T1 to a central switch that could interconnect any two RS232 circuits at speeds up to 56kbps
[19:57] <peerce> most of the T1 was just intrabuilding local, but some of it ran cross town on telco 'dry pairs'
[19:57] <pwillard> that would be the Linkabit solution, yeah... it was a joy to use and maintain
[19:58] <peerce> we were all using CP/M systems on our desktops, datacenter was mostly VAX
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[19:59] <pwillard> Linkabit ideally worked with VAXen since the DMZ variant that came out around 1992 could ALSO be t1 to the Linkabit saving all the DMZ wiring... only 4 wires to the switch for every 24 ports.
[20:00] <peerce> yeah, 2 pair on cat3
[20:01] <pwillard> was really a joy... my happiest time as a 'network' guy.
[20:01] <peerce> 1992? this was more like 1979
[20:01] <pwillard> 82... that was a typo
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[20:02] <peerce> heh, there was a good reason we were all running CP/M btw, this was at Digital Research, the folks who DEVELOPED cp/m :-p
[20:02] <gordonDrogon> of-course in the bad old days, it was 20mA loop .... (still is in-places...!)
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[20:03] <pwillard> For me it was at DEC in Massachusetts between 1982 and '86
[20:03] <peerce> ugh, I never did much care for current loop
[20:03] <pwillard> I hated the plug...so I just hated it
[20:03] * Zapme (~Zapme@daemon.creait.mun.ca) Quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
[20:03] <peerce> hey, my wife worked for DEC back then, well, I think she left in 82 or 83. she was a tech writer on the VMS project, wrote the mag tape documentation for VMS v2.0
[20:04] <gordonDrogon> wish I'd not skipped my old North Star Horizon ...
[20:05] <peerce> http://new.freescruz.com/hogranch/digital.research/My_office_upstairs_at_734_Lighthouse.jpg :)
[20:05] <peerce> some old chit circa 1980
[20:06] <gordonDrogon> I recognise half of that.
[20:06] <gordonDrogon> adm3a terminal (or televideo?)
[20:06] <pwillard> I worked in storage device group in Shrewsbury... was with Dec from 1978 until the end at 1998 and then Compaq/HP until 2015.
[20:06] <peerce> yeah, i belive that was a TV< the ADM's were blue
[20:06] <peerce> the other one is a Soroc
[20:06] <pwillard> A PET?
[20:07] <peerce> no thats a Vector MZ, the terminal on top came with it, was a video + keyboard, not a serial terminal
[20:07] <gordonDrogon> cromemco next to it?
[20:07] <peerce> yeah, a Z3
[20:07] <pwillard> ah
[20:07] <peerce> I think?
[20:07] <red9> peerce, That was your office at Digital USA ?
[20:07] <peerce> gawd, too many fried brain cells.
[20:08] <peerce> um, Digital Research Inc, but yeah, my office.
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[20:08] <red9> peerce, Would been neat to have home then ;)
[20:08] <gordonDrogon> I'm re-creating a digital past I never had... starting with a pdp-8...
[20:08] <pwillard> 300 baud
[20:09] <red9> peerce, I'll guess however that telecommuting was not permitted by management in any serious degree?
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[20:10] <peerce> seeing as how there was no network or internet back then :D
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[20:10] <gordonDrogon> dial-up systems did exist.
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[20:10] <gordonDrogon> it was typically dial into the local mainfame though...
[20:10] <peerce> yeah, but when you're doing OS development, its pretty hands on.
[20:11] <gordonDrogon> one of my early experiences was in 77 - dialling into a local system running basic - acoustic coupler & tty 33...
[20:11] <peerce> i was mostly working at the device driver layer.
[20:11] <H__> wirewraps punchcards and changing bulbs ?
[20:11] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/6502back.jpg for H__
[20:11] <red9> peerce, what OS?
[20:12] <peerce> when we got the vaxes we had 1200/2400 modems, mostly Racal Vadic stuff.
[20:12] <peerce> um, CP/M
[20:12] <pwillard> No... we couls never work remote... just provide afer hours remote support for break/fix
[20:12] <red9> Why did Digital got bought up?
[20:13] <peerce> gordonDrogon; hah, my first personal CP/M system was mostly wirewrap, on 4x6 'stdbus' cards
[20:13] <gordonDrogon> red9, you need to clarify the "digital" - DEC or DRI ...
[20:13] <peerce> red9; DRI more like imploded. boss lost interest in management, he was a compiler architect
[20:14] <red9> DEC
[20:14] <peerce> DEC lost there way when the old man died. (can't remember his name offhand)
[20:14] <peerce> ken olsen
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[20:15] <gordonDrogon> geeks/engineers don't make good businessmen (well my personal experience, anyway)
[20:15] <pwillard> Actually... the board disagreed with him and ousted him well before he died
[20:15] <red9> Sounds just like Commodore (C64 etc)
[20:16] * chod (~chod@toy-town.demon.co.uk) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[20:16] <red9> Businessmen unfortunely too often fail to grasp what tech makes good sense .. and not.
[20:16] <gordonDrogon> lots of good engineer founded companies that just didn't work out in the long run - I worked for several in the UK.
[20:16] <H__> gordonDrogon: sweet :)
[20:16] <gordonDrogon> and in my self employed world - still found it hard to make ground against the tough businessman types..
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[20:17] <red9> gordonDrogon, avoid them then?
[20:17] <gordonDrogon> H__, that was ~30 years ago - I made a few of them, then took it to PCB for a project.
[20:17] <gordonDrogon> red9, not always possible...
[20:17] <pwillard> DEC actually had too many divergent technologies in play at the end. The downside of being an innovator
[20:18] <H__> there was a php11 in the basement of my uni. probably trashed now :( with i had the space for it at the time
[20:18] <peerce> that and they totally missed the personal computer. the Rainbow 100 was a neat box but too expensive and too late to achieve significant market traction
[20:18] <H__> pdp11
[20:18] <gordonDrogon> pwillard, and now that I've studdied the pdp-8 systems, some of the later ones really should not have been made at all ...
[20:18] <gordonDrogon> I'm looking at getting a pdp11 system next year - I think I can find space for it.
[20:18] <BurtyB> hmm hopefully the picture of the tvi910 in our bathroom has long dropped off the internet :)
[20:18] <peerce> the 11 is a lot more elegant than the 8
[20:19] <gordonDrogon> peerce, you had to start somewhere :)
[20:19] <peerce> an 11/34 or so might be a fun project to resurrect
[20:19] <gordonDrogon> the chap who's done the PiDP8 project is doing a PDP 11/70 replica panel soon too.
[20:20] <peerce> the 70 was a bit of a monster
[20:20] <gordonDrogon> you can run the emulator on a Pi 0.
[20:21] <akk> How does the speed compare? Is the pi 0 emulator faster than the original?
[20:21] <gordonDrogon> what's interesting/sad/just weird - is that my BASIC interpreter (on a Pi 0) is faster than native pdp-8 assembler for some programs I've run.
[20:21] <gordonDrogon> akk, no idea - simh doesn't give good control - my own pdp-8 emulator is cycle accurate.
[20:21] <peerce> well, geez a pdp8 was a mid 1960s design, and minimalist even for then
[20:21] <red9> Must be an interesting perspective to know the lousiest Pi will run circles around DEC top of the line servers in performance and storage for almost no price..
[20:21] <gordonDrogon> and if I bother to write a pdp-11 emulator, it will also be as cycle accurate as I can make it.
[20:22] <gordonDrogon> peerce, I know of at least one pdp-8 that's still in daily use ...
[20:22] <peerce> the first gen pdp8's werre built out of discrete transistors
[20:22] <red9> gordonDrogon, Why not go for FPGA if you want cycle accuracy?
[20:22] <peerce> implemetnting RTL (resistor-transistor logic)
[20:22] <gordonDrogon> red9, because I have a Pi 0.
[20:22] <pwillard> Honestly the DEC20 and DEC10 (and any higher PDP's) were a waste of hardware.
[20:22] <gordonDrogon> and I want to do it in C.
[20:22] <pwillard> The 11 series was all that was needed
[20:23] <peerce> DEC20s ran a lot of fairly large businesses
[20:23] <red9> pwillard, why where they a waste?
[20:23] <peerce> Microsoft used DECsystem/20 for all their business stuff
[20:23] <peerce> Compuserve was entirely built out of DEC20's
[20:23] <pwillard> They did... but in the end it was not a sustainable business and largely responsible some BIG failures inside DEC... Like Jupiter project.
[20:24] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-65-221.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[20:24] <red9> So M$ machines didn't have what it takes ;)
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[20:24] <peerce> I'm tlaking about back in MSDOS days.
[20:24] <peerce> you don't run a 5000 employee business on MSDOS :D
[20:25] <pwillard> Microsoft also built their original Big datacenters in Bothel and Bellevue Datacenters with almost entirely DEC machines.
[20:26] <peerce> it was hilarious working at digital reserach and being a DEC customer. half of DEC would assume we were a DEC division :-O FE's would be at our door in hours.
[20:27] <pwillard> LOL
[20:27] <red9> peerce, Nor do you build it with microsoft code ;)
[20:27] <peerce> I'm sure they were using MANMAN or somethign for their ERP
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[20:30] <red9> gordonDrogon, In your quest to recreate. Is it by software emulation or the-real-thing?
[20:30] <pwillard> Ken Olson had a bit of a bruised chin and therefore some animosity toward 16 bit computing when the guys left for DataGeneral after being told "we will not build this 16 bit device". And technically only ever created 1 product line was 16 bit. It just happened to be the best selling. (Probably really bugged him)
[20:30] <gordonDrogon> red9, both.
[20:30] <red9> There's a computer museum where they hired actual mainframe engineers to keep them running..
[20:31] <gordonDrogon> there are several... and some volunteer...
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[20:31] <pwillard> same here at the local museum
[20:31] <red9> pwillard, Ken wanted 32-bit?
[20:31] <peerce> yeah, ditto CHM in Mountain View (silicon valley)
[20:32] <peerce> pwillard; pdp8 was 12 bit. DEC10/20 was 36 bit
[20:32] <gordonDrogon> if I lived closer to TNMoC, I'd probably live there...
[20:32] <peerce> they also had some 18 bit stuff
[20:32] * Montrr (~superuser@198-48-141-223.cpe.pppoe.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:32] <peerce> note these were all 'word' oriented machiens, not byte addressable
[20:33] <red9> Why did Ken despise 16-bit then?
[20:34] <pwillard> Ken never wanted 32 bit. Loved 36 though
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[20:36] <red9> yeah, but he obviously had 12-bit in his product line. So why the hate for 16-bit?
[20:36] <gordonDrogon> it was an odd number of 3-gang switches for octal addressing (guess!)
[20:37] <aliasunknown> @MarkusJ @Zardoz thanks
[20:37] <gordonDrogon> easier to count in octal than hex..
[20:37] <red9> btw, anyone stumbled upon the PLATO system in the 1970s? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)
[20:38] <red9> So why did people get started with hex based word lengths?
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[20:39] <gordonDrogon> I've no idea - and I'm just guessing about the octal stuff above, but 8-bits lends itself to ASCII plus a parity bit.
[20:40] <peerce> IBM used hex going way back
[20:40] <peerce> system/360 was a byte addressed 32 bit architecture, first releas ecirca 1964
[20:40] <peerce> IBM1130 was a 16 bit word addressed architecture, also dated to circa 1964
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[20:40] <pwillard> I'm not sure why the 16 bit was disliked other than it was not conveniently expressed in octal
[20:41] <peerce> both used hex, octal was a DEC thing mostly, at least thats where I first saw it.
[20:41] <peerce> the 12/18/36 bit stuff tended to use 6 bit char codes by default, which only gets you upper case (which is all most computers had in the 60s/70s
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[20:41] <pwillard> PDP front panels were always octal
[20:42] <gordonDrogon> I can still hear the rooms full of thundering tty33's...
[20:42] <peerce> thank gawd, I almost totally skipped asr33's
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[20:42] <gordonDrogon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFt_9LsAgso
[20:42] <peerce> went from cardpunches to ascii serial terminals like ADM3a
[20:42] <gordonDrogon> I should have... but the uni I went to was a bit behind the times...
[20:43] <gordonDrogon> we'd all had 2 years of Apple II's, etc. and they gave us coding sheets to hand into the girls in ops to type up for us...
[20:43] <gordonDrogon> and tty33's to do simple editing.
[20:44] <pwillard> I'm one of the early PiDP8 builders. Love mine
[20:44] <gordonDrogon> except the one little room with the pdp11 in it - that was much cooler.
[20:45] <gordonDrogon> pwillard, are you on Oscars mailing list?
[20:45] <peerce> I know a guy who rescued and completely reconditioned a circa mid 60s IBM 1130, phew. CPU is a desk, literally. selectric typewriter mechanism for a console.
[20:46] <peerce> all built using SLT logic (discrete transistors on ceramic hybrid 'chips')
[20:46] <gordonDrogon> that's dedication, but no worse than what I'd do if I had any interest in old IBM systems, I guess...
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[20:46] <pwillard> and in groups waiting to get the 11
[20:46] <peerce> http://rescue1130.blogspot.com/
[20:47] <pwillard> Getting a DEC PDT soon
[20:47] <gordonDrogon> pwillard, hm. has he created a new group for the 11?
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[20:48] <pwillard> No. still in the PiDP8 Group being discussed there
[20:48] <gordonDrogon> ah, ok. thought I'd missed something.
[20:49] <pwillard> nope
[20:49] <pwillard> we are all waiting
[20:49] <gordonDrogon> pwillard, the PDT might be fun - if the disk drives still work..
[20:50] * willy23123 (~willy2312@213.233.150.66) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
[20:50] <gordonDrogon> I need to spend more time on my emulator, but it seemed when I mentioned it earlier that no-one really cares much.
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[20:51] <gordonDrogon> I need to finish off the floppy and hard drive drivers for it.
[20:52] * shua (81783eb4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.120.62.180) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:52] <gordonDrogon> and hook it up to some xmas tree lights :)
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[20:52] <shua> hello
[20:52] <pwillard> Well, the SIMH sort of makes it a bit redundant... probably the main reason
[20:53] <gordonDrogon> yea, but I'd alredy written the core of my emulator, so might as well finish it off.
[20:53] <gordonDrogon> I don't feel the list is that friendly though.
[20:54] <pwillard> yep... it was nice looking code
[20:54] <shua> can anyone tell me if it is possible to set up a github repo of my pi so that i can make changes to the pi and push them so my team members can get my changes to their pis
[20:54] <red9> What would been the best computer you could have accomplished in 1986 for 100 USD ?
[20:54] <gordonDrogon> shua, the answer is 'yes' all you need to do is create a github account and learn git ...
[20:54] <pwillard> red9: NONE
[20:55] <gordonDrogon> 86? $100... none ..
[20:55] * H__ (~H__Freeno@unaffiliated/h/x-9670680) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[20:55] <pwillard> Even the cheapest was > $200
[20:55] <shua> very helpful
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[20:55] <gordonDrogon> actually, the sharp/trs 80 pocket computers were about in the early 80's and cost about that, but my pc1211 has .. 1500 bytes of ram and a 1-line display.
[20:55] <gordonDrogon> sinclair spectrum?
[20:56] <pwillard> Sinclair came closest
[20:56] <gordonDrogon> shua, you asked it if was possible - yes, it's possible.
[20:56] <Zardoz> what about timex?
[20:56] <red9> it seems to be the price for what the raw price of C64 parts were. So my guess is a soldered thing could accomplish a lot for a price unlike pre-assembled with a brand logo.
[20:56] <gordonDrogon> timex was sinclair in the US.
[20:56] <pwillard> But none of the sinclairs were very well "human factored"
[20:56] <shua> do you have a link to put me in the correct direction
[20:56] <shua> i cant really find anything helpful
[20:57] <gordonDrogon> shua, sorry - no - I'm crap at git and don' use github.
[20:57] <gordonDrogon> the bbc micro was �400 in '82.
[20:57] <gordonDrogon> price didn't change much over it's life.
[20:57] <Zardoz> the C= stuff cost way more then 100
[20:57] <pwillard> IN 1986 a 6809 or 6502 Still cost ~$100 and RAM was super pricy. Static ram was astronimical. I just built a Z80 basic machine for <$75
[20:57] <Zardoz> maybe vic 20?
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[20:58] <gordonDrogon> bakery time. back later.
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[20:59] <Zardoz> nope vic 20 was 300 Introductory price
[21:00] <Zardoz> yeah Timex Sinclair started out at 99.99
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[21:00] <red9> I had some thoughts as to what would the C64 price be if assembled from spare parts available in 1986. And if so.. could one go further and get any MMU capable CPU etc..
[21:02] <Zardoz> really amazing you can get somthing like the Pi for $35
[21:02] <Zardoz> hell even the Pi0
[21:02] <Tenkawa> Zardoz: try the zero
[21:02] <Tenkawa> yeah
[21:03] * Tenkawa still remembers his first computer in 1979
[21:03] <Zardoz> Tenkawa: what was it?
[21:03] <Tenkawa> Trs-80
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[21:04] <Zardoz> mine was a Vic 20
[21:04] <Tenkawa> nice
[21:05] <Zardoz> wanted a TSR, but I saved for the Vic 20
[21:05] <Zardoz> almost whent the coco way though
[21:05] <Tenkawa> yeah
[21:05] <Tenkawa> thats how I went
[21:05] <Tenkawa> all the way
[21:06] <Zardoz> I used to know a friend of a friend that has some amazing coco stuff.
[21:06] <Zardoz> he was all in
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[21:06] <Tenkawa> I did go into assembly though in the 80's
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[21:07] <Tenkawa> that came in handy again in the late 90's in financial prpogramming
[21:07] <Tenkawa> er programming
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[21:07] <Zardoz> yeah c= was the way I whent vic 2 and 64 then Amiga in a big way
[21:07] <Tenkawa> kinda ironic considering I'm a sysadmin and dba
[21:08] <Zardoz> Amiga so ahead of it's time...
[21:08] <Tenkawa> indeed
[21:08] <Tenkawa> those gpus
[21:08] <peerce> I only ever worked on a first version nearly prototype Amiga. was that the 500? somethign like that.
[21:09] <peerce> did NOT care for the OS or development environment at ALL.
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[21:09] <Tenkawa> heh I think our first trs-80 was something like 2k +
[21:09] <Tenkawa> dont quote me though
[21:09] <Tenkawa> I was very young and that was a long time ago
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[21:10] <Zardoz> friend of mine got a 1000 before C= was a real Amiga inc. computer, was flipping amazing
[21:10] <Tenkawa> oh a model 1000?
[21:10] <Tenkawa> yeah never got to mess with those much
[21:11] <Zardoz> yeah a real one no C= braiding at all
[21:11] <peerce> ah, yeah, the one I worked with was a prototype 1000
[21:11] <Zardoz> thats what made me save and get a 500 when they came out.
[21:11] <peerce> amigaOS 1.0 was damn buggy
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[21:13] <Zardoz> now I can emulate the dam thing with a 35$ RPI.
[21:13] <Tenkawa> yep
[21:13] <Tenkawa> just think what you
[21:13] <Tenkawa> 'll be able to run in ten more years
[21:14] <Tenkawa> hheheh
[21:14] <Zardoz> lol
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[21:23] <Tenkawa> uggh
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[21:24] <Tenkawa> other software vendors
[21:24] <Tenkawa> arent having a good time
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[21:36] <red9> Tenkawa, The problem is that processors clocked faster than ~4.5 GHz gets too hot. So they are not commercially produced. But there are 100 GHz transistors in the lab. So maybe a 100 GHz 6502 is possible.
[21:37] <red9> This does however also mean that processor speed will not be much higher than it is until either heat generation is fixed or optical switches are a thing.
[21:37] <Tenkawa> if we can hit the right cooling solution/property
[21:37] <red9> Programmers that can utilize parallism and pipelines will have an advantage.
[21:38] <Tenkawa> indeed
[21:38] <red9> That means programmers and designers have to think just like in the 80's .. oh the horror! ;-)
[21:39] <Tenkawa> haahaa
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[22:11] <peerce> wait, whaaaa? just img'd raspian lite onto a uSD card, its fat32??
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[22:12] <H__> my / is ext4: /dev/mmcblk0p2 on / type ext4 (rw,noatime,data=ordered)
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[22:13] <H__> there's a boot partition with fat16:
[22:13] <H__> Number Start End Size Type File system Flags
[22:13] <H__> 1 4194kB 62.9MB 58.7MB primary fat16 lba
[22:13] <H__> 2 62.9MB 7751MB 7688MB primary ext4
[22:13] * DeadTOm (~deadtom@2001:4b98:dc0:41:216:3eff:fe58:44d0) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:13] * Tenkawa (~na@unaffiliated/tenkawa) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:14] <peerce> ok, maybe this is just an installer or something.
[22:14] <ShorTie> a small part of it is, it's mostly ext4
[22:14] <peerce> ohwait, ok, its the FAT directory, only 40MB, *I* see, says the blinddude.
[22:14] * sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-zjxogzeojarqddkq) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:15] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:16] * bortzmeyer (~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:7191:c16:4b9:b75d) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:16] <leftyfb> peerce: the /boot partition is fat32
[22:17] * s34n (~smcmurray@104.152.131.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] * el3k0n (~textual@151.25.8.80) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:17] <peerce> yeah, I figgered that out.
[22:19] * CyberManifest is now known as emptysoul
[22:19] <gordonDrogon> programmers are lazy - I worked for a couple of supercomputer companies - always the same thing; "I have this 30 year old fortran program, make it go faster" ...
[22:20] * InverseRhombus (~InverseRh@2a01:388:245:112::1:1c) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:21] * XpineX (~XpineX@89.239.215.117) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:21] <gordonDrogon> I wrote wiringPi so I could be lazy later on ;-)
[22:27] * s34n (~smcmurray@104.152.131.130) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:27] * krautguy (~pi@x4e374605.dyn.telefonica.de) Quit (Quit: cyaaaaaaa)
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[22:32] * marcelod (~marcelod@5.28.170.117) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:33] * GerhardSchr (~GerhardSc@unaffiliated/gerhardschr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:33] * cute_korean_girl (~PATTI@24-247-163-68.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:35] <stiv> there is lazy lazy and there is smart lazy
[22:36] * m_t (~m_t@p5DDA2E98.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:37] * spybert (~spybert@c-73-235-164-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:42] <gordonDrogon> well. yes ... :)
[22:42] <gordonDrogon> when I did sysadmin stuff, I'd aim to have everything automated in a new place in month 1, then sit-back with my feet up ...
[22:43] * mmazing (~mmazing@unaffiliated/mmazing) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[22:47] * H4ndy is now known as h4ndy
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[23:21] * Martle (~Martle@c-71-56-254-5.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[23:22] * TheSin (~TheSin@gateway.bluefalls.ca) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[23:24] * DeadTOm (~deadtom@2001:4b98:dc0:41:216:3eff:fe58:44d0) Quit (Quit: DeadTOm)
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[23:40] * bhowe (~bhowe@209.107.210.251) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
[23:40] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:57] * defsdoor (~andy@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust177.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.