#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2017-12-14

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[0:20] <fugitive> BurtyB fixed
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[0:32] <erisco> I read the LDR tutorial and am interested why a capacitor is used
[0:33] <erisco> the tutorial has you construct a light sensor by measuring the voltage change across the capacitor, as far as I understand it
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[0:33] <erisco> but, is it possible to read the current change across the resistor? that sounds like a way to measure the light level as well
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[0:34] <erisco> I thought maybe this is to do with the GPIO interface of the pi… able to measure voltage but not current? curious
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[1:51] <ali1234> erisco: the GPIO pins are digital. they cannot measure current at all, and they can only "measure" voltage in the sense that any voltage above ~2.4 is a "1" and any voltage below ~1.6 is a "0"
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[1:52] <ali1234> erisco: so the capacitor circuit works because a known voltage will take a constant time to charge a capacitor
[1:52] <erisco> ali1234, is that so, huh
[1:52] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:52] <ali1234> it times how long that takes, and it then calculates the voltage based on the time
[1:52] <erisco> ali1234, so the program must be merely measuring the time to transition from 0 to 1
[1:52] <ali1234> exactly
[1:52] <ali1234> and because it knows the capacitor size, it can calculate the voltage
[1:52] <erisco> gotcha
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[1:55] <ali1234> at least that is how i have seen it done before with a R/C circuit to do A/D conversion
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[1:56] <erisco> I had thought the pin was analog… changes things
[1:57] <ali1234> no, the pi absolute has no analog inputs
[1:57] <erisco> I was wondering why the cap was involved at all… makes sense now
[1:57] <ali1234> you have to use an add-on board to get ADC pins
[1:57] <red9> You can see the same circuit on the PC DB15 gameport on older PC's.
[1:58] <ali1234> red9: huh, i did not know that...
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[2:11] <red9> You have the same principle in the Commodore 64/SID chip for the paddle input. 512 clock cycles is used to determine the value. http://www.waitingforfriday.com/?p=661#SID_Pin_Description
[2:11] <ali1234> i guess the amiga one was the same too
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[2:12] <ali1234> used the exact same joysticks anyway
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[2:12] <erisco> you have to discharge the capacitor after the transition to 1 if you want to take another reading
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[2:12] <erisco> this was the circuit I was looking at https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/projects/physical-computing
[2:13] <erisco> https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/learning-resources-production/projects/physical-computing/1072decd879286bfa4627a349799d873120f7b62/en/images/Laser-tripwire_3-01.png
[2:13] <red9> My suspicion is that the capacitor is discharged and when it jumps from 0->1 a counter values i latched into readable register. (clock being ~0.9 MHz)
[2:14] <red9> The gotcha! of this method is to have logic levels that are sufficiently well defined.
[2:15] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[2:16] <ali1234> erisco: the capacitor is discharged by setting the pin to an output and driving it low
[2:16] <ali1234> https://github.com/RPi-Distro/python-gpiozero/blob/master/gpiozero/input_devices.py#L451
[2:16] <ali1234> and https://github.com/RPi-Distro/python-gpiozero/blob/master/gpiozero/input_devices.py#L525
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[2:16] <erisco> you can do that with those pins? okay I'll look into it
[2:21] <red9> What is the resistor range for the LDR?
[2:21] <erisco> I am not sure
[2:21] <erisco> I never built the circuit because I didn't have a cap
[2:21] <erisco> but another thing I want to try is to charge the cap with an LED… still have to do some thinking on that though
[2:22] <red9> I would however be slightly hesistant about script languages like Python and critical timing. Though maybe the RC circuit is sufficiently slow.
[2:22] <red9> ie LED as a sensor?
[2:22] <erisco> yes
[2:23] <erisco> as a photodiode
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[2:34] <red9> https://makezine.com/projects/make-36-boards/how-to-use-leds-to-detect-light/
[2:36] <red9> https://wiki.analog.com/university/courses/electronics/electronics-lab-led-sensor
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[2:38] <red9> I'll suspect the LED as light detector can't be used like the LDR. It will need a current or voltage converted into a digital value.
[2:39] <Neutron-sl> hello, I am wondering if there are any ways to make a USB network bridge with 2 raspberry pis. where any USB device plugged into the one pi, gets connected to a host PC in the other end in the setup of: USB devices > raspberry pi > IP network > raspberry pi > host PC
[2:39] <red9> So you may actually need a real A/D (like ADC0804). It can be done with RC,op-amp,etc but that is more complicated than necessary.
[2:40] <Neutron-sl> preferably without any extra drivers or setup needed on the host PC as it is running windows
[2:40] <Neutron-sl> I am not sure if the micro USB port on the raspberry pi can even be used to plug into a host, or if it's just a plain power port
[2:41] <red9> Neutron-sl, I don't think the Raspberry-Pi support USB device mode or OTG. So it's likely doomed without any clever driver tricks.
[2:41] <red9> One option though is to exploit bitbang USB at 1.5 Mbit/s mode.
[2:43] <Neutron-sl> could work, it's only for keyboard/mouse and mostly for USB > UART based things that it will be used. but unless there's some straight forward solution maybe I'll just get some off the shelf USB over network product instead :-)
[2:45] <red9> do you know assembler?
[2:46] <red9> and which RPi do you intend to use?
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[2:47] <Neutron-sl> only C/C++. and the first raspberry pis that were around, the ones that you had to wait for ages from those 2 alternative supplies to get back when rpi was the new "hype" :P
[2:47] <Neutron-sl> with 256 and 512MB RAM
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[2:48] <red9> If you do tight bitbang in C, you might actually make one RPi to fake it's a USB device. Using two GPIO.
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[2:49] <red9> The catch is to output and input a bit every 0.6667 µs with precision.
[2:51] <red9> The easier option is to have a USB-over-Ethernet driver on the PC. It does away with a lot of complications. You can even do with only one RPi that way.
[2:51] <red9> (and USB is a shit protocoll btw.. ;) )
[2:52] <Neutron-sl> yeah I haven't looked much into it. no idea if it expects to have perfect timing from the sender to the receiver so that any delay will cause the protocol to "slip" and just error out
[2:52] <Neutron-sl> or if it can be done frame by frame like an IP network
[2:53] <ali1234> Neutron-sl: it could be done
[2:53] * TheSin (~TheSin@d199-126-166-83.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:53] <ali1234> see for example http://usbip.sourceforge.net/
[2:54] <ali1234> you could make a pi zero receive the USB/IP packets and convert them into real USB signals
[2:55] <ali1234> it will be difficult though
[2:55] <ali1234> and only allow one device at a time
[2:55] <ali1234> installing the driver directly on the PC will be much easier
[2:57] <ali1234> USB is packet based and half duplex, so timing is not a big concern (within reason)
[2:57] <ali1234> timeouts are typically on the order of seconds
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[2:58] <red9> bit jitter might be a problem.
[2:59] <red9> ie if the first bit period is 0.667 µs and the next is 0.7 µs and the next 0.8 µs etc..
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[2:59] <ali1234> depends on the device
[3:00] <ali1234> most won't care at all
[3:00] <red9> This project might be of interest: https://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/index.html
[3:01] <ali1234> not really haha
[3:01] <red9> (USB 1.5 Mbit/s on a 8 MHz AVR)
[3:01] <ali1234> that's a bitbanging USB device mode driver
[3:01] <ali1234> there's really no reason to use it now every micro comes with hardware USB
[3:02] <ali1234> also it definitely won't work on anything other than AVR8
[3:02] <red9> Not every micro comes with device mode capable USB controllers or the OTG mode.
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[3:02] <red9> The same princple used on AVR8 can be used on RPi. Which actually a lot faster..
[3:03] <ali1234> no it can't
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[3:03] <ali1234> the pi isn't fast enough to bitbang USB, ironically
[3:03] <ali1234> at least not while running any kind of operating system at the same time
[3:04] <red9> which why you shut down interrupts at critical sections.
[3:04] <ali1234> you can't
[3:04] <ali1234> linux will crash if you try that
[3:04] <red9> And if one can make use of assembler, it's possible to make some determinations on timing respect with CPU clock.
[3:05] <ali1234> and the GPU will still pre-empt you anyway
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[3:05] <ali1234> V-USB also relies on the processor having a specific clock crystal to get the exact USB frequency :)
[3:05] <red9> Unix will handle temporary disabling of multitaskin and interrupts. It's done regularly for some drivers.
[3:06] <ali1234> keyword "temporary"
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[3:06] <ali1234> you can't disable them long enough to bang out a full USB packet
[3:06] <red9> The GPU might be problem though. Maybe it have some disable mode?
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[3:06] <ali1234> you can't disable the GPU. GPU disables you...
[3:07] <red9> ;)
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[3:07] <ball> Guest2057: Have you considered registering your nick?
[3:07] <ali1234> you *might* be able to do something funky with the PWM outputs and DMA...
[3:08] <ali1234> i dunno if you can PWM at 12MHz though
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[3:08] <red9> Won't PWM fuck it up?
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[3:08] <red9> 125 MHz SPI output might however be of interest.
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[3:09] <ali1234> really the whole idea is a non-starter
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[3:10] <red9> What makes you say that?
[3:10] <ali1234> especially considering you can just get a Zero and have USB2 in hardware
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[3:10] <red9> Does it support USB device mode (not host mode) or OTG mode?
[3:10] <ali1234> yes
[3:11] <red9> well then, problem is solved.
[3:11] <red9> Though rpi-z misses Ethernet.
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[3:11] <ali1234> yes, but you can go wireless
[3:12] <en1gma> can the pi3 (bluetooth) connect to my phones bluetooth and receive gps data from a gps sharing app? im beginning to think this is pretty hard. been following a few guides that have no success
[3:12] <red9> Wireless is unreliable and have security issues.
[3:12] <Neutron-sl> maybe it can be done but I wasn't going to invest too much time in it so I think I will have to settle for something off the shelf. :-) I just need something quick and simple to be able to connect devices to my main PC in another room, as I have my PC in my bedroom, and my "workshop" in another one and I don't want my bedroom full of gadgets and mess
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[3:12] <ali1234> yes, just buy something
[3:12] <Neutron-sl> I am already running VGA to that room with some dummy passive VGA > RJ45 adapters, but USB is a problem
[3:12] <ali1234> doing it with a pi is purely theoretical
[3:12] <Neutron-sl> it could be an interesting project by itself of course
[3:13] <red9> Neutron-sl, What kind of devices do you need to use remotely?
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[3:14] <ball> I'd rather use VNC than run VGA over long cables.
[3:14] <Neutron-sl> keyboard, mouse, perhaps USB audio (not really a priority) and just to plug things like arduinos and microcontroller programming boards in
[3:14] <Neutron-sl> ball: yeah there's a lot of degradation to the signal but it "works"
[3:14] <ball> Neutron-sl: Eww.
[3:15] <red9> The characteristic impedance of VGA is 75 ohm and cat.5 is 120 ohm. So with a balun it can be done.
[3:15] <Neutron-sl> red9: yeah, there's lots of ghosting on the image but it's not unreadable
[3:15] <ball> (still ew).
[3:16] <Neutron-sl> I could try to do some impedance matching to eliminate some of the ghosting but then I need an amplifier and other stuff so it adds up to a massive project again
[3:16] <red9> Neutron-sl, What do you need to access on the PC that makes you do the VGA extension thing?
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[3:17] <Neutron-sl> it's just so I can develop stuff seamlessly between 2 locations. just convenience
[3:17] <Neutron-sl> today I have a second PC in there, accessing stuff with VNC, with shared resources on a network share etc etc
[3:17] <red9> Neutron-sl, no need for amplifier. What you need is a signal transformer. Just like the type Ethernet uses everywhere.
[3:17] <Neutron-sl> but it's just a pain in the *ss at times
[3:19] <red9> There's VNC and x2x etc. If you can live with some latency. Then you can use a extra RPi as a workshop terminal.
[3:19] <Neutron-sl> red9: possibly. some high frequency 75:120 ratio transformer. but I am not sure if VGA needs the exact DC levels to operate correctly
[3:20] <ali1234> it does not - it is analog
[3:20] <red9> It doesn't.
[3:20] <ali1234> as long as sync signals are within spec you'll get a picture
[3:21] <Neutron-sl> hmm but won't the DC level drift off if the signal isn't perfectly balanced?
[3:22] <Neutron-sl> so for example if you output a solid white, it will slowly drift back down towards 0V and just become black again?
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[3:23] <red9> Many KVM extenders use baluns to send VGA over cat.5/6/7.
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[3:24] <red9> ie it works. And the problem only really show up if the signal transformer is saturated.
[3:25] <red9> I also suspect human perception will miss absolute levels and only really detect relative levels.
[3:25] <HrdwrBoB> synergy >>>> x2x/etc
[3:26] <HrdwrBoB> I used x2x and x2vnc back in the day
[3:26] <HrdwrBoB> many years ago
[3:26] <ball> I just use vnc
[3:28] <red9> Anyone tried DVI over cat.5 without signal transformers?
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[3:36] * Neros (~Neros@ken66-h01-31-32-241-72.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[3:37] <stormbytes> evening
[3:37] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-1FC-B6BE-DDAC-7511.dyn6.twc.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:37] * Bane^ (~Bane@fsf/member/bane) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:38] <stormbytes> I'm trying to figure out the part number for the soc on the zero-w without much success
[3:38] * pepee (~pepee@unaffiliated/pepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:38] <stormbytes> i googled Elpida and whatever numbers were on the chip itself but nada
[3:38] * Case77 (~jselwitz@ Quit (Client Quit)
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[3:39] <Neutron-sl> red9: the problem with DVI or HDMI is that there are too many pins for a dummy adapter
[3:39] <Neutron-sl> so you need 2 Cat 5/6/7 cables (that's why I am using VGA)
[3:42] <ball> Or one Cat5e cable and VNC ;-)
[3:43] * snowkidind (~textual@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:50] * galileopy (~galileopy@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:52] <Neutron-sl> VNC is slow :-( and it doesn't fix the USB problem anyway
[3:53] <Neutron-sl> steam in home streaming is great - it will do video and everything in near real time (<100ms delay) but it is only intended for games so it won't stream the full desktop without messing around
[3:54] <Neutron-sl> there are workarounds like killing explorer.exe and starting it again from steam, but I need something predictable that always works
[3:55] * feksclaus (~feksclaus@80-71-131-204.u.parknet.dk) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
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[3:57] <ball> I like VNC, me.
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[6:08] <stormbytes> anyone know if the rpi zero soc is for sale?
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[6:15] <gezellig> I'm trying to get my pi to connect to wifi so I can ssh into it. It's a pi zero w, I am putting my information into the wpa_supplicant file but it doesn't seem to be connecting
[6:16] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[6:18] <gezellig> I've seen varying instructions around the web
[6:22] <gezellig> regarding the header and the location to put the file in
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[6:26] <stormbytes> hang on..
[6:27] <stormbytes> gezellig check out this webpage https://www.losant.com/blog/getting-started-with-the-raspberry-pi-zero-w-without-a-monitor
[6:29] <gezellig> so close!
[6:29] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[6:30] <gezellig> hey it works, thanks stormbytes
[6:30] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:30] <stormbytes> :)
[6:30] <gezellig> im gonna come in here later and ask a question about npm/nodejs on armv6
[6:31] <gezellig> ran into a ton of trouble earlier and gave up and wiped my sd
[6:31] * pepee (~pepee@unaffiliated/pepee) Quit (Quit: bye $IRC)
[6:31] <stormbytes> hah
[6:31] <stormbytes> just went through all that a couple days ago
[6:31] <stormbytes> let me give you the short answer:
[6:31] <gezellig> trying to setup a zero w as a homebridge
[6:31] <stormbytes> use NVM
[6:31] <gezellig> o rly
[6:31] <stormbytes> https://github.com/creationix/nvm
[6:31] <stormbytes> follow the installation instructions. Works like a charm
[6:32] <gezellig> oh thank you so much
[6:32] <stormbytes> you bet
[6:32] <gezellig> does the install script work?
[6:32] <stormbytes> yep
[6:32] <stormbytes> just fired it up a couple days ago on a new W
[6:32] * snowkidind (~textual@ Quit (Quit: See Ya Later Alligator!)
[6:32] <stormbytes> it will compile/install for Arm6. Nodesource does not support Arm6 at this point so.. NVM all the way. Its easy as pie.
[6:33] * immibis_ (~chatzilla@122-59-200-202.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:33] <stormbytes> no pun intended hah
[6:33] <stormbytes> have fun
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[7:00] <genewitch> anyone mine crypto on rpi?
[7:00] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:00] <gezellig> whats that net you like one cent per month?
[7:00] <genewitch> i dunno, it has some cores
[7:01] <genewitch> it should be ~$5/month if you mine the correct stuff (basing on my experience with lower end hardware mining)
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[7:25] <red9> asfaik, crypto mining BTC on anything not ASIC isn't profitable.
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[7:37] <mlelstv> unless you can abuse other peoples computers
[7:40] <gezellig> stormbytes, it works!
[7:40] <gezellig> (node)
[7:40] <stormbytes> congrats :)
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[8:49] * iEv0lv3__ (uid269036@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogrjadxunrvhxdmr) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:49] <iEv0lv3__> Hello all
[8:51] <iEv0lv3__> I am new, to irc and to rpi. I would like to ask a question to anyone who might want to help
[8:51] <gezellig> ask away
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[8:56] <iEv0lv3__> I have set up a rpi3 (and rpi zero) to be headless with the Re4son kernel, Works just fine. However, I want it to be completely headless, ANYWHERE. I intended to write a script that will auto connect to closest open network, then run a program on boot that will allow port forwarding for ssh. I chose to use ngrok, because it let's you open a port without router access, which is perfect. The problem is, unless I
[8:56] <iEv0lv3__> pay, the port number changes each boot. You can see how this is a problem. Is there a better way? Perhaps dns2tcp, or chaining that or ngrok with no-ip?
[8:57] <iEv0lv3__> I'm trying to find the free workaround lol
[8:58] * Megaf (~Megaf@unaffiliated/megaf) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
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[9:00] * Sonar_Guy (~Who@fedora/sonarguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[9:01] <iEv0lv3__> Any advice would be much appreciated.
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[9:02] * tunekey (~tunekey@unaffiliated/tunekey) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[9:03] <[Saint]> It's not the advice you're looking for but how damn that's a terrible idea.
[9:03] <[Saint]> *hot damn
[9:04] <[Saint]> Automatically connecting to arbitrary open networks isn't a thing anything should do, ever.
[9:04] <iEv0lv3__> Advice is advice lol. Tell me how it's terrible
[9:04] <[Saint]> You wanna get MITMed? 'cos, that's asking for it
[9:05] * lksz (~lksz@217-67-201-162.itsa.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:05] <iEv0lv3__> Well, it is going to act as a VPN on boot eventually. That's why I need it to connect to any network automatically. Trying to do something like Hak5's WifiPineapple
[9:06] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:07] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:08] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:09] <iEv0lv3__> It connects, opens the port needed with ngrok, then that goes to another service that will update the random assigned port number to a name possibly, then activate the vpn, so then I connect to the name via ssh
[9:09] <iEv0lv3__> Perhaps I'm going at it wrong?
[9:12] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[9:12] <iEv0lv3__> It sounds like extra work tunneling service through service, but I was trying to find a free workaround to the ngrok random port number. And I kinda figured it makes extra steps for attackers to penetrate. Maybe not lol
[9:12] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:14] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[9:15] * olivetree_ (~znc@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[9:15] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:15] * nshire (~nealshire@unaffiliated/nealshire) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[9:16] <[Saint]> Random ports haven't provided any meaningful security for a very long time.
[9:16] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[9:17] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:17] <iEv0lv3__> But when you use ngrok to open a port, it gives it a web-based opening. (0.tcp.ngrok.io:xxxx)
[9:18] <iEv0lv3__> Doesn't that help obfuscate it?
[9:19] <Lartza> How would it?
[9:19] * mago_ (50bb66fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[9:20] <iEv0lv3__> And if my open network is coming in one WiFi adapter, then going to the OpenVPN server on the pi board, then to a 2nd adapter that acts as a router, and I connect with other devices, I'm good.
[9:20] <iEv0lv3__> And idk how Lartza I'm new lol
[9:20] <iEv0lv3__> I'm learning as I go. Apologies to be a noob
[9:21] <Lartza> Just port scan the device?
[9:21] <Lartza> In the LAN
[9:21] <Lartza> Also that doesn't even have anything to do with MITM, if I just open a wifi near it to steal all traffic
[9:21] <iEv0lv3__> I want it to be WAN
[9:21] <Lartza> Huh?
[9:21] <Lartza> If you connect to a network you are in that network
[9:22] <Lartza> wi-fi isn't WAN
[9:22] <[Saint]> Bingo.
[9:22] * olivetree_ (~znc@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:23] * akar (~user@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[9:23] <iEv0lv3__> Open a WiFi near it? Like if I were to connect to an evil AP?
[9:23] * HighInBC (~highinbc@unaffiliated/chillum) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[9:24] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[9:25] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:25] <[Saint]> Just chiming in to note that all wireless access points you don't control should be assumed "evil" by default.
[9:25] * akar (~user@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:25] * dreamon__ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:25] <[Saint]> If you don't control it or trust the entity that does, it's assumed insecure.
[9:26] <iEv0lv3__> And if I connect to a network, and route it through a VPN, that I then connect to with say, a phone, my traffic is hidden to anything outside the pi
[9:26] <iEv0lv3__> Agreed [Saint]
[9:27] <iEv0lv3__> Lartza had said if he/she set up an AP for mitm. So I assumed lol
[9:27] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[9:28] <Lartza> Didn't you say you wanted to use it for VPN?
[9:28] <Lartza> As in you connect a client device to it
[9:28] <Lartza> And yes evil AP
[9:29] * mago_ (50bb66fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:29] * drcode (~drcode@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:29] <Lartza> iEv0lv3__, If you have a VPN why not just connect straight to that VPN with the phone?
[9:29] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:30] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) Quit (Quit: See you on the other side)
[9:33] <[Saint]> Presumably the Pi is the VPN.
[9:34] <[Saint]> Which I would think makes some chicken<->egg security woes.
[9:34] <Lartza> Yeah, in which case iEv0lv3__ assumes wrong since the traffic between the Pi and the internet is outside the VPN, so still HTTPS encrypted but you can capture a lot of info from that still
[9:35] <iEv0lv3__> Ok, sorry, I'm being confusing. I stated I'm trying to find a free way to open a port on any network (using ngrok, since it can ignore NAT and firewalls). But that gives a random port number. If it's headless (no screen), I won't know that port to ssh to. So I was wondering if there was another way to do that. I can create a VPN (said that was my later plan), but to make it globally accessible, I need a cloud
[9:35] <iEv0lv3__> server like digitalocean. And I still need it to auto connect and open ports to establish VPN connections
[9:36] * MrMobius (~MrMobius@c-68-45-74-146.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[9:36] <Lartza> You can just reverse SSH tunnel with a machine that has an open port
[9:37] <[Saint]> Ah. I assumed the Pi was handling the VPN aspect which would be all kinds of terrible.
[9:37] <[Saint]> My mistake.
[9:37] <iEv0lv3__> I know that, that was my first idea. This has to all be automatic
[9:37] <[Saint]> I'm not great with ambiguity.
[9:37] <Lartza> Why can't reverse SSH tunnel be automatic?
[9:38] <iEv0lv3__> How would it know the port of some random hotel I just checked in
[9:38] <Lartza> What port?
[9:38] <Lartza> The hotel won't have ANY open ports
[9:38] <iEv0lv3__> Exactly
[9:38] <Lartza> Right, so what's the issue?
[9:38] <iEv0lv3__> Ngrok does that
[9:38] <Lartza> So does reverse SSH tunneling....
[9:38] <Lartza> ngrok IS that server with an open port
[9:39] * m_t (~m_t@p5DDA32ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:39] <Lartza> that reverse connects to the pi with no open incoming ports
[9:39] <iEv0lv3__> Yes, but only if you know the port to reverse to right?
[9:39] <iEv0lv3__> Ohh
[9:39] <Lartza> Not really no?
[9:39] <Lartza> I mean ngrok is probably a lot simpler overall and more reliable in the long run but
[9:40] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0)
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[9:41] * ParkerR (ParkerR@unaffiliated/parkerr) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[9:42] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:42] * Dimik (~Dimik@ool-182e2df5.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:44] * cybrian (~b@ibeep.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:45] * ParkerR (~ParkerR@unaffiliated/parkerr) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:45] <iEv0lv3__> Wait, I remember now, one of the reasons I was led to ngrok, is because reverse ssh was my first choice after research, but I want to reverse both ways. I don't just want to pull info from host, but also client. (Not sure those terms are right)
[9:46] * defsdoor (~andy@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust177.19-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:47] <iEv0lv3__> I couldn't find a way to reverse ssh the other way, like remotely switch the direction
[9:47] <iEv0lv3__> Anyways, getting a little off here now..
[9:50] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:51] * Dimik (~Dimik@ool-182e2df5.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[9:51] <iEv0lv3__> And [Saint] , the vpn would be on the pi's native wifi. One adapter brings traffic in, pi wifi VPN server, to 2nd WiFi adapter out (to be configured as ap). So maybe you did understand right? Lol. Why would tgis be bad?
[9:52] * nshire (~nealshire@unaffiliated/nealshire) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:52] <[Saint]> Wait. Is the pi actually running the VPN service?
[9:53] <[Saint]> Let's just clear that up.
[9:53] <[Saint]> Or is it externally supplied on a trusted network?
[9:54] * xMopxShell (~xMopxShel@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:54] * chen (~fury@pipe.bannerfree.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:54] <iEv0lv3__> Right now, there is no VPN on it. Originally was going to host VPN on rpi3 from home network, making my pi Zero a portable client that acted as WiFi pineapple.
[9:54] <iEv0lv3__> So no. Not yet
[9:55] * Nik05 (~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[9:56] <[Saint]> Right. I think everyone kinda assumed your access point pi was going to be serving the VPN as well.
[9:56] <iEv0lv3__> I want it to be self sustained. Want the server to be able to connect anywhere.
[9:56] <[Saint]> Which for aforementioned reasons would be extremely silly.
[9:56] * xMopxShell (~xMopxShel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[9:56] <iEv0lv3__> So bad idea? Lol ok
[9:56] * chen (~fury@pipe.bannerfree.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:57] * Nik05 (~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:58] <iEv0lv3__> I've seen tuts on making a pi into the WiFi pineapple, but I want this to do more than just be a router
[9:58] <Lartza> wifi pineapple isn't a router
[9:58] <[Saint]> It's not even close.
[9:58] <iEv0lv3__> It acts as one. Allowing private access
[9:59] <[Saint]> That's an extremely tiny subset of what it's for.
[9:59] <[Saint]> That's like saying a car is a shopping cart because it carries groceries one a week.
[10:00] <iEv0lv3__> Lol noted. Maybe I should research that more.
[10:00] <[Saint]> First and foremost it's an auditing tool.
[10:01] * nshire (~nealshire@unaffiliated/nealshire) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:04] * lemonzest (~lemonzest@unaffiliated/lemonzest) Quit (Quit: Quitting)
[10:04] * DJDan (~DJDan@115-64-177-188.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:04] <iEv0lv3__> What I'm trying to accomish is a portable VPN that runs in background, and allows me ssh and vnc access. Something I can just walk in a new place, it connects to the WiFi, and gives me a secure tunnel
[10:05] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:05] * ciph3r (uid218951@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uaclunsbmthlbccl) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[10:05] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:05] <Lartza> Still, why not just connect your phone or whatever to that wifi directly?
[10:05] * tlaxkit (~hexchat@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:05] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[10:06] * cybrian (~b@ibeep.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[10:07] <iEv0lv3__> What do you mean? I can connect my phone, but if I'm on a NAT, my pi can't port forward to allow ssh
[10:08] * BurtyB uses a pi zero w to connect to random wifi and I plug it into the laptop as a usb ethernet gadget it then creates a VPN over the wifi to my home network
[10:08] * Xanukkah (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:08] * SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:10] <iEv0lv3__> I don't want to have to connect it to anything (Ethernet, usb). That's what I'm trying to get around. I want it all self contained
[10:10] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:12] <gordonDrogon> iEv0lv3__, a secure tunnel to where?
[10:12] <BurtyB> so you want wifi AP+client and vpn over the client side wifi?
[10:13] <iEv0lv3__> From open network, to pi, to adapter, to my devices (phone, tablet)
[10:13] * SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:13] <gordonDrogon> make your phone a wi-fi hotspot then all other devices can connect to each other via the phone hotspot.
[10:13] <gordonDrogon> which is what I do.
[10:14] <gordonDrogon> phone connects to outside world via 3g/4g.
[10:14] * Megaf is now known as Megaf[College]
[10:14] <iEv0lv3__> Eventually it will be a secure tunnel to an online server in which I plan to host an AI. Big project, but I'm going step by step, and the free way first lol
[10:14] <[Saint]> But what if I want to download terrabytes of porn on someone's good natured wifi or lack of security?
[10:14] <[Saint]> Hmm? What then?
[10:15] <[Saint]> Think of the children.
[10:15] <iEv0lv3__> Lol saint. No
[10:16] * Damni (~Damni@host141-71-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0)
[10:16] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:16] * defsdoor (~andy@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust177.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:17] <iEv0lv3__> gordonDrogon: if I make my phone hotspot the connection, then vnc and switch networks, I'm screwed, no connection. I'm trying to circumvent that
[10:17] * SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:17] * defsdoor (~andy@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust177.19-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:19] <gordonDrogon> I don't understand why you get no connection. This works for me - I do it all the time when I'm travelling.
[10:19] <gordonDrogon> phone connected to internet via 3g/4g - I use juicessh from phone. Pi, laptop, tablet to cnnect to phone's hotspot Wi-Fi and they all just work too - ssh, etc.
[10:19] <gordonDrogon> and Pi can see lapop, tablet, etc.
[10:20] <iEv0lv3__> I said if I go into vnc, and change my connection, from hotspot to the new public ap I'm at
[10:20] <gordonDrogon> why do you need vnc?
[10:20] <iEv0lv3__> Also, ConnectBot is way better than Juice, check it out
[10:20] <iEv0lv3__> And in case I need a window open
[10:21] <gordonDrogon> Juice works for me. I have no need to change, and I have the full version.
[10:21] <Lartza> I switched from connectbot to juice...
[10:21] <BurtyB> connectbot isn't that great imho, it says I've never connected when I've connected, i need to disconnect when it has been disconnected, etc. - It's hardly great ;)
[10:21] <gordonDrogon> anyway, bread to deliver now. back later.
[10:22] <iEv0lv3__> Oh, see, I don't pay for things I can get free lol. I hated juice when I used it. But opinions
[10:22] <Lartza> I don't think connectbot supported ed255519 keys
[10:22] * akar_ (~user@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:22] * r0Oter is now known as r00ter
[10:22] <Lartza> Probably does now but it's not really any different than juice to use
[10:23] <iEv0lv3__> I don't like that it only allows side view, and the overlay buttons on cb are more preferable to me
[10:23] <Lartza> iEv0lv3__, I mean forget the Pi, connect the phone to the wi-fi and use it
[10:24] * corup (~corup@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:24] * akar (~user@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[10:25] <iEv0lv3__> But anyways, I need vnc for something that may open a window (wireshark), or something that spawns a second terminal (ngrok). Point is, if I switch from that phone connection, I can't access the pi anymore
[10:26] <iEv0lv3__> No, the pi has to do this. Is is going to be an Artificial Intelligence when done.
[10:26] <iEv0lv3__> *it
[10:27] <iEv0lv3__> I need it to have connection at all times in all places (within reason)
[10:27] <Lartza> juicessh works in landscape just fine :S
[10:27] <Lartza> Had to check
[10:27] <iEv0lv3__> And also allow me a secure tunnel to it to initiate commands
[10:28] * wega (~wega@unaffiliated/wega) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] <iEv0lv3__> Maybe it was an option I didn't check Lartza lol
[10:28] * wega2 (~wega@unaffiliated/wega) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] * wega2 (~wega@unaffiliated/wega) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:28] <Lartza> I haven't changed anything, didn't even have a connection configured after last ROM update
[10:29] <Lartza> But ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ there's nothing wrong with connectbot or juicessh imo if one likes them
[10:29] * akar_ (~user@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[10:29] <Lartza> Unlike some other horrible things people use
[10:29] <iEv0lv3__> Shit idk lol, when I first tried it, it only did landscape by default, made me mad to have to flip my phone 😂
[10:31] <iEv0lv3__> Oops, language, apologies
[10:33] <iEv0lv3__> 3:12 AM <BurtyB> so you want wifi AP+client and vpn over the client side wifi?
[10:33] <iEv0lv3__> ^basically
[10:34] <BurtyB> iEv0lv3__, on the same wifi or one for each?
[10:34] * p71 (~chatzilla@75-128-224-180.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[10:35] <iEv0lv3__> Each is it's own as of now. Until I get to the point where I have it working enough to pay for a service that links them all as one, yes
[10:36] <iEv0lv3__> I want each pi to have the same capability and be self contained
[10:37] * Azlux (~Azlux@unaffiliated/azlux) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:37] <iEv0lv3__> I figured I could used linux deploy as my VPN client for a secure gateway if needed (Not sure if this is ideal?)
[10:37] <iEv0lv3__> The pi would be the server
[10:38] * Sonar_Guy (~Who@fedora/sonarguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[10:38] * BurtyB meant in the pi that's being AP+client do you want them on wlan0 or do you also have wlan1? but either way I'd have thought a quick google+following what others have done would be a good start
[10:40] <iEv0lv3__> Wlan1. But I have been in countless forums man. Been at this for months tbh. I thought i had a breakthrough with ngrok, now gave to find a way to make that work...
[10:40] <iEv0lv3__> I think I'm at 4 months now, maybe 5?
[10:40] <iEv0lv3__> Lol
[10:41] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[10:41] * Sonar_Guy (~Who@fedora/sonarguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:42] <BurtyB> did you follow the docs on the raspberrypi.org site for wifi and access point setup?
[10:43] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:43] <iEv0lv3__> I'm not using native raspian. And I know how to set that up, but it doesn't quite solve the issue I have
[10:44] * cybrian (~b@ has joined #raspberrypi
[10:44] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:44] <BurtyB> well that's me out :)
[10:45] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:45] * Dave_MMP is now known as djsxxx_away
[10:47] <iEv0lv3__> I'm lost😂
[10:47] * Volis (uid12493@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hhcpkhzhepfazsnl) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:48] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:49] * andreas303 (~andreas30@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:49] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:50] <iEv0lv3__> Off to bed
[11:00] * RoBo_V1 (~robo@ has joined #raspberrypi
[11:02] * RoBo_V (~robo@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[11:02] * RoBo_V1 is now known as RoBo_V
[11:03] * Cheery (~cheery@25-87-157-213.static.tentacle.fi) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:04] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
[11:05] * Sonar_Guy (~Who@fedora/sonarguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[11:06] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[11:08] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:11] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[11:11] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[11:13] * cybrian (~b@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:24] * immibis (~chatzilla@122-59-200-202.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[11:45] * jancoow (~jancoow@dhcp-077-251-034-091.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:47] <paradizelost> morning all
[16:48] <paradizelost> i'm having an issue with pacemaker on raspbian, anyone have any ideas? the pacemaker service won't start on boot, but if i manually start it after boot, it works fine
[16:48] <paradizelost> error i'm getting is
[16:48] <paradizelost> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/mTFy8awj/
[16:48] <ali1234> show the unit file?
[16:48] * ShapeShifter499 (~ShapeShif@unaffiliated/shapeshifter499) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:49] <ali1234> also check systemctl status
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[16:52] <paradizelost> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/mxO0Xr4K/
[16:53] <paradizelost> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/dhtFOJkW/
[16:53] <ali1234> when you say you started it manually, how did you do that?
[16:53] <paradizelost> systemctl start pacemaker
[16:53] <ali1234> hmm
[16:53] <paradizelost> it only doesn't work on boot
[16:54] * _26thmeusoc (~26thmeuso@p4FD27004.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[16:54] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@2ProIntl/User/Geek/Keanu73) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:54] <paradizelost> i even added the delay hoping that would fix it
[16:55] <paradizelost> systemctl status doesn't list pacemaker in it
[16:55] <ali1234> check this https://github.com/coreos/bugs/issues/351
[16:55] <paradizelost> i've done systemctl enable pacemaker, systemctl enable pacemaker.service, update-rc.d pacemaker defaults
[16:55] <ali1234> different service, same symptoms
[16:56] * uriah (~uriahheep@unaffiliated/uriahheep) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:56] <ali1234> suggests "systemctl list-dependencies"
[16:57] <ali1234> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/281083/systemd-failed-with-result-dependency
[16:57] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[16:57] <ali1234> you added the sleep? well the unit has a 60 second start timeout so you might need to increase that as well
[16:58] <paradizelost> k, adjusting the start timeout to 90
[16:58] <ali1234> i don't have any suggestions beyond that. maybe #systemd channel can help you
[17:03] <paradizelost> i disabled all dependencies in the unit file and it works
[17:04] <ali1234> okay... so now you have a bisection problem :)
[17:04] <paradizelost> yep, adding back one by one
[17:07] <paradizelost> hmm, first one i added back, corosync, makes it fail
[17:07] <paradizelost> but corosync is started
[17:08] <paradizelost> well, f it, for now, i'm going to leave it as is, and i'll figure it out after work
[17:09] <ali1234> i would report a bug
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[18:57] <pwillard> https://xkcd.com/838/
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[18:58] <BurtyB> heh
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[19:16] <en1gma> why is BT such a lil Biatch when you (NEED) gps over BT like as in using my dang phone with gps share over bt connection
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[19:18] <iEv0lv3__> Sounds like quite the enigma
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[19:18] <iEv0lv3__> Sorry, couldn't help myself
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[19:18] <en1gma> i worked on this for 8hrs and followed old guides and new guides and nothing is working. although i am having the same problem with a laptop with onboard bt and i have not been successful in receiving bt gps from phone
[19:18] * mentalita (~mentalita@unaffiliated/mentalita) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:19] <en1gma> basically my ubuntu laptop looks just like the pi3 with raspi
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[19:20] <en1gma> same apps (bluetoothctl, hcid, minicom, gpsmon.) wonder if its a problem with the phone not sharing it over bt correctly
[19:20] <caoliver> Today I found my computer keyboards are missing a key: https://imgur.com/a/SxoRS
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[19:23] <iEv0lv3__> Not sure en1gma ,haven't dabbled with the bt functions yet
[19:24] <en1gma> man get ready for a whirlwind. if its not a2dp (like as in this gps over bt) than you gonna be in for a headache
[19:24] <iEv0lv3__> Screw missing keyboard buttons caoliver, just ssh from mobile😊
[19:24] <en1gma> it pairs fine and all that
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[19:25] <plugwash> Are there any perl coders around who would be prepared to help with improving a bit of raspbian infrastructure?
[19:25] <caoliver> iEv0lv3__, actually, that's one of the things I positively hate about "convergence" devices. Touch screen sucks for serious data entry/coding/writing.
[19:26] <gordonDrogon> plugwash, wish I could help, but perl become read only for me years back ...
[19:26] <iEv0lv3__> I didn't even know you could gps over bt en1gma, now I'm intriqued
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[19:27] <iEv0lv3__> Not enough to start testing it though lol
[19:27] <iEv0lv3__> Not yet
[19:27] <iEv0lv3__> Seems like something I will need for tgis project in the future though
[19:27] <iEv0lv3__> *this
[19:29] <iEv0lv3__> caoliver: that is true
[19:30] <plugwash> gordonDrogon, :( it doesn't seem perl is a hugely popular language in the raspberry pi community :(
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[19:30] <gordonDrogon> too much pithon being pushed...
[19:32] <iEv0lv3__> BurtyB: you still on?
[19:32] <shiftplusone> Perl in general doesn't come up often in general. I only see it used in old debian tools.
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[19:33] <iEv0lv3__> Ya, perl is rare
[19:34] <gordonDrogon> I have a friend who co-authored a perl book some years back, but he's now living in canada..
[19:34] <jelly> plugwash: how complex is your perl stuff
[19:35] <plugwash> jelly, the relavent code (part of a larger program) is at http://paste.debian.net/1000764/
[19:36] <plugwash> I am reading in a whitelist file and checking stuff against it. I want to be able to use wildcards in my whitelist
[19:37] <jelly> plugwash: what does that . do at the end of line 3, mispaste?
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[19:39] <plugwash> yeah, the dot is a mispaste (I copy/pasted from a mcedit terminal and mcedit uses a light-colored dot to indicate spaces at the end of lines)
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[19:44] <jelly> plugwash: $fileinpackage is always absolute full path? if there's a whitelist for 'README*' should it whitelist '/usr/share/doc/blah/README.gz' ?
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[19:46] <jelly> it would be easy to convert a detected glob whitelist (something containing * or ?) into a RE and look for match I guess
[19:46] <plugwash> whitelist entries and $fileinpackage will always be full paths.
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[19:48] <plugwash> but I want to be able to use whitelist entries like /usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/*/armv7-m/*
[19:50] <plugwash> problem is i've inherited code written in perl but my perl-knowlege is close to 0 :(
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[19:51] <jelly> okay, should that * match exactly one level of dir. entries?
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[19:52] <plugwash> doesn't really matter if it's exactly one dir entry or any arbitary block of text
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[19:54] <jelly> I mean should /usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/*/armv7-m/* match /usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/foo/bar/armv7-m/quux or not
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[19:57] <plugwash> I don't care either way
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[19:58] <stormbytes> are people building actual products around the rpis?
[20:00] <exobuzz> stormbytes, sure
[20:00] <exobuzz> there are lots of products built around the rpi
[20:00] <stormbytes> any examples of the top of your head?
[20:01] <exobuzz> arcade cabs like the picade
[20:02] <shiftplusone> Slice. NEC digital signage displays, tons of other digital signage products. Probably a ton of kickstarters, but I wouldn't count those.
[20:02] <stormbytes> hmm
[20:02] <shiftplusone> They are no generally used in consumer products, but there are a ton of specialised niche devices
[20:02] <stormbytes> there's a 1/pc limit on the pi-zero W right now so that dampens things
[20:03] <shiftplusone> Yeah, the zero isn't meant for industrial/commercial use.
[20:04] <stormbytes> isn't meant for?
[20:04] <plugwash> hmm, I think I can use glob_to_regex_str to convert the whitelist lines to regexes, then merge the results together into one big regex.
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[20:04] <stormbytes> shiftplusone how so?
[20:04] <shiftplusone> You should be able to arrange a bulk order, but it will cost more.
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[20:05] <stormbytes> if anything i'd think the pi-zero would be the idea candidate for commerical products
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[20:05] <stormbytes> is the pizero a subsidized board?
[20:06] <shiftplusone> afaik, it just doesn't have a large enough margin
[20:06] <shiftplusone> but it's not a 'loss leader'
[20:06] <stormbytes> i don't understand what you mean
[20:07] <stormbytes> deosn't have a 'large enough margin'
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[20:08] <plugwash> reading between the lines what it means is if they are going to spend manufacturing capacity on serving non-core customers (i.e. not people learning to program) they want to make a decent profit doing so.
[20:09] <stormbytes> which was essentially my first question
[20:09] <stormbytes> ...the rpi0 is a subsidized product
[20:10] <shiftplusone> subsidized by what?
[20:10] <Syliss> headless clowns!
[20:10] <Syliss> its just cheaper because its smaller and less add ons
[20:11] <stormbytes> that's not what plugwash is saying
[20:11] * anunnaki (~chris@unaffiliated/anunnaki) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[20:12] <stormbytes> subsidized by whom, not by what, and more specifically.. subsidized FOR what.
[20:12] * willy23123 (~willy2312@86-42-103-154-dynamic.agg2.lky.bge-rtd.eircom.net) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
[20:12] <shiftplusone> But wherefore the henceforth?
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[20:14] <stormbytes> point is.. it might be a commercial product at some point, but it isn't one today
[20:15] <stormbytes> the $10/board is clearly 'subsidized' on some level
[20:16] <shiftplusone> Not sure what you mean by that. I know it makes a profit.
[20:19] <stormbytes> orders are restricted
[20:19] <stormbytes> the BCM chip doesn't appear to be for sale
[20:19] <stormbytes> this does not seem like a commercial product to me
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[20:20] <shiftplusone> It's not. That's what the compute module is for.
[20:21] <stormbytes> compute module?
[20:21] <plugwash> jelly, can t
[20:21] <plugwash> sorry hit enter before I finished typing
[20:23] <plugwash> jelly, can you tell me what is wrong with http://paste.debian.net/1000779/ , it prints 1, I expected it to print 0
[20:23] * galileopy (~galileopy@ Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[20:23] <jelly> plugwash: sorry, I was playing with http://paste.debian.net/1000780/
[20:24] * ghoti (~paul@ Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:24] <shiftplusone> stormbytes: it's a board with the BCM chip on it. That's the ones used by WD, NEC, Slice and others.
[20:24] <stormbytes> the chip?
[20:25] * darsie (~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:25] <darsie> hi
[20:25] <stormbytes> shiftplusone do you have a part # for that?
[20:25] <darsie> How much current can I pass across two ground pins?
[20:26] <darsie> From pin 6 to 14.
[20:26] <red9> Expensive internet? check this out: https://github.com/matiasinsaurralde/facebook-tunnel ;-)
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[20:28] <darsie> 130 mA? 330 mA?
[20:28] <darsie> 20 A?
[20:29] <iEv0lv3__> 1:00 PM <stormbytes> any examples of the top of your head? Amazon echo, Google for, smart mirrors, portable VPN ap...ect
[20:29] <iEv0lv3__> *Google dot
[20:30] <iEv0lv3__> The things you can build with it, are endless
[20:30] <stormbytes> the Amazon echo most certainly does not use an RPI
[20:31] <red9> darsie, I would think closer to 330 mA. Double check it though.
[20:31] <stormbytes> unless you're referring to tinkering projects
[20:31] <iEv0lv3__> It doesn't use it, but those are all examples of what you CAN use it to make
[20:31] <jelly> plugwash: it'd be a bit simpler to separate whitelist globs into a separate hashref but this was the first thing that worked, and I'm just a sysadmin not a coder :-)
[20:31] <iEv0lv3__> Yes. I am
[20:31] * jim_chat (~jim@iron.intertech.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:31] <iEv0lv3__> Apologies for misreading
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[20:32] <stormbytes> Not what i asked but ok
[20:32] <darsie> red9: I'm not sure I'll find that data. I'll just connect the pins with a wire.
[20:32] <iEv0lv3__> As I said, apologies for misreading.
[20:32] <jelly> plugwash: line 14 is untested, dunno if it populates $whitelist as expected (paths =>1, globs => 2)
[20:33] <stormbytes> np
[20:34] <Lartza> stormbytes, Part number for what? The compute model?
[20:34] <stormbytes> part # for a commercially available BCM soc as is used on the PIzero
[20:35] <Lartza> You can't source that
[20:35] <Lartza> Why do you need the soc
[20:35] <Lartza> You can't really use it on it's own and can just get a different soc
[20:35] <stormbytes> i don't follow
[20:35] <Lartza> https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-3/
[20:35] <Lartza> THAT is meant for commercial use
[20:36] <stormbytes> why do i need that? well if its cheap enough to make a $10 board.. i could def use it :)
[20:36] <Lartza> Not the zero
[20:36] <plugwash> jelly, thanks a lot, just to confim you are happy for the code you pasted to be included in a GPLv2+ file
[20:36] <Lartza> You can't use it to make a 10$ board no
[20:36] <stormbytes> i'm so confused
[20:36] <Lartza> About what?
[20:36] <red9> darsie, otoh track width multiplied with track thickness will give you a really good indication of current capability.
[20:36] <Lartza> rpi zeros are not available large scale, but compute modules are
[20:36] <Lartza> the commercial products based on the pi use compute modules
[20:36] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:37] <stormbytes> i thought the rpi was akin to bbb -- a development board of sorts, featuring broadcom's silica
[20:37] <stormbytes> the term 'compute module' is basically a pizero?
[20:37] <Lartza> nope
[20:38] <stormbytes> holy crap its $35
[20:38] <stormbytes> and no wifi as far as i can see
[20:38] <red9> What BCMxxxx got going for it is integrated 1 GB of DRAM right? otherwise one might go for other SoC?
[20:39] <stormbytes> does it have that much?
[20:39] <stormbytes> i've yet to see any actual costing for parts
[20:39] <stormbytes> is the compute module open source?
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[20:41] <stormbytes> how would you access the 'pins' on the compute module?
[20:41] <Lartza> red9, The RAM is not integrated
[20:41] <darsie> red9: I see 4 narrow tracks connecting the ground plane with the pin solder pad.
[20:41] <jelly> plugwash: yeah
[20:42] <jelly> plugwash: it's too tiny to be meaningfully (c) anyway
[20:42] <Lartza> stormbytes, Nothing RPi is open-source hardware no
[20:42] <stormbytes> dang
[20:43] <stormbytes> rpi is commerical?
[20:43] <stormbytes> this is so weird
[20:43] <Lartza> Also... it's a module with the connector on the side quite clearly?
[20:43] <Lartza> stormbytes, rpi as in what?
[20:43] <stormbytes> i see the connector.. just found the dev kit for it
[20:43] <shauno> a little late, but the main thing that makes the CM/CM3 attractive over the pi0 is that they've committed to availability to 2013 minimum
[20:43] <shauno> er, 2023 rather
[20:44] <shauno> that, and the wobbly supply chain for the zero, are more important than $30 if you're going to integrate a product
[20:45] <stormbytes> at the $30 price point I wonder if its not cheaper to just make your own
[20:45] <stormbytes> (i'm talking multiples)
[20:45] <Lartza> Like thousands or ten?
[20:45] <plugwash> jelly, thanks, what name should I use to give you credit?
[20:46] <Lartza> Thousands? Of course it's cheaper and you can use the bad cheap processors banana pi etc use
[20:46] <Lartza> Although it'll of course require an up-front investment but
[20:46] <red9> Banana-Pi seems better thought out in general.
[20:46] * akk (~akkana@75-161-91-17.albq.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:46] <stormbytes> banana pi?
[20:46] <red9> yes
[20:46] <iEv0lv3__> All I know is that it's octo-core
[20:46] <stormbytes> can you elaborate?
[20:47] <shauno> are they still using allwinner procs?
[20:47] <iEv0lv3__> Gotta be better than rpi
[20:47] <stormbytes> never heard of "bad cheap banana pi"
[20:47] <iEv0lv3__> Speed wise
[20:47] <iEv0lv3__> I've never heard of the other pi's like banana being cheap either
[20:47] <jelly> plugwash: don't, I think it's too little (or if you really want, lowercase "jelly" is good enough)
[20:47] <red9> http://www.banana-pi.org/r1.html
[20:48] <stormbytes> yea i'm lookign at it now
[20:48] <Lartza> That's not a banana pi
[20:48] <Lartza> that's a router
[20:48] <stormbytes> this bascially a clone
[20:48] <stormbytes> ?
[20:48] <stormbytes> http://www.banana-pi.org/bpi-zero.html
[20:48] <stormbytes> and its an A7
[20:48] <stormbytes> will debian run on this out of the box?
[20:48] <Lartza> rpi2 is A7 that's not special
[20:49] <Lartza> also, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it's a cheap allwinner soc
[20:49] <iEv0lv3__> stormbytes: there are many development boards put there. Orange Pi, banana pi, beaglebone..
[20:49] <iEv0lv3__> *out there
[20:50] <iEv0lv3__> Asus tinkerboard (god I want one of those, not paying $200 though lol)
[20:50] <Lartza> red9, Could you elaborate on better thought out?
[20:50] <shiftplusone> iEv0lv3__: it's $200!?
[20:50] <iEv0lv3__> The Asus tinkerboard has 32 cores
[20:50] * jdawgaz (~Jerry@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[20:50] <stormbytes> yea.. i wouldn't mind hearing why the bpi is better
[20:51] <iEv0lv3__> shiftplusone: damn close to it, yes
[20:51] <Lartza> Well it's not it's cheaper but that's all imo :P
[20:51] <shiftplusone> 32 cores?
[20:52] <iEv0lv3__> shiftplusone: correction, close to 100, not 200
[20:52] <shiftplusone> where's this info coming from?
[20:52] <red9> Lartza, For one integrated MAC (MII/RMII) for Ethernet. Sleep mode that uses µA not 100 mA.. SMPS power, datasheet on I/O leak current etc,
[20:52] <stormbytes> i'm surprised rpi sint' open source
[20:52] <Lartza> stormbytes, Nobody could build it if it was
[20:52] <Lartza> So it doesn't really matter that way
[20:53] <gordonDrogon> tinkerboard is �49 and is a quad core 1.8Ghz ARM.
[20:53] <red9> I think there are better chips than BCMxxxx and what Raspberry Pi foundation has going for them is production volume.
[20:53] <shiftplusone> and support
[20:53] <gordonDrogon> ++support
[20:53] <iEv0lv3__> gordonDrogon: yeah, just checked. I'm getting it mixed up with another development board that has 32 cores. Oops
[20:53] <stormbytes> the bpi seems to be a chinese knock off
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[20:53] <red9> which you get if the product gets popular.. ie volume production.
[20:54] <Lartza> stormbytes, It is
[20:54] <stormbytes> well that's that
[20:54] <stormbytes> :)
[20:54] <Lartza> It's also cheaper
[20:54] <red9> Not much that isn't "Made in China" ;)
[20:54] <Lartza> And has what red9 said it has apparently
[20:54] <stormbytes> what kind of products is the compute module designed for?
[20:54] <Lartza> red9, The RPi? ;)
[20:54] <stormbytes> -- intended for (rather than 'designed' for)
[20:54] * elitepleb (4e3f31be@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:55] <Lartza> also I wouldn't count on BPi quality control, made in china doesn't mean bad if you do it right
[20:55] <red9> Lartza, many things, not all things.
[20:55] * galileopy (~galileopy@ has joined #raspberrypi
[20:55] <iEv0lv3__> stormbytes: bpi still has advantages, the pi Zero W clone is a quad core like rpi3. The rpi3 clone is octo-core
[20:56] <iEv0lv3__> Twice the computing speed
[20:56] * Kozuch (~Kozuch@ Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[20:56] <gordonDrogon> haha...
[20:56] <stormbytes> i'm mostly interested in the pizero W
[20:56] <gordonDrogon> only if your application can actually make use of more than one core.
[20:56] <Lartza> Yeah I wouldn't call it twice
[20:56] <Lartza> Not even sure what the bpi is clocked at
[20:57] <red9> Let's not forget that most electronic gadgets are ARM or MIPS powered. Though few have a MMU. Their capability is just one EEPROM flash away.
[20:57] <shiftplusone> stormbytes: take a look at C.H.I.P... that might be more what you're after.
[20:57] * ShapeShifter499 (~ShapeShif@unaffiliated/shapeshifter499) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:58] <iEv0lv3__> I forgot about chip lol
[20:59] <elitepleb> i'm not quite sure if this is the right place to ask but i will anyway, i may or may not have fucked up soldering my pi zero w tv port with the bottom pad of the positive tv pin being torn off in a newbie soldering accident, any suggestions on restoring the connection or places i could wire up a new connection now that i have more experience?
[20:59] <gordonDrogon> elitepleb, whatever you're asking, do read the channel rules first and keep it family friendly please.
[20:59] <red9> elitepleb, pics or it didn't happen ;)
[21:00] <stormbytes> shiftplusone yea i keep hearing that come up
[21:00] * ahrs (~quassel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ahrs) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:00] <iEv0lv3__> Speaking of pi Zero W, I'm having an issue with mine. I'm using the re4son sticky fingers kali-pi newest armel image. Never did this before, but on boot, it boots into CLI instead of X. The armhf same version for my rpi3 doesn't do this, neither did previous armel. How do I fix this
[21:00] * ahrs (~quassel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ahrs) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] <gordonDrogon> I'd also suggest that soldering anything on the Pi Zero is not a newbie job...
[21:00] <gordonDrogon> however they are cheap.
[21:00] * galileopy (~galileopy@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:01] <shauno> elitepleb: I'm pretty sure the negative on the TV-out is just ground. you should be able to use any other ground pin too
[21:01] <stormbytes> shiftplusone what attracted me to the pizero-W was its slim/small form factor, the onboard WIFI and of course the $10 price tag so... that's kinda where I'm aiming to be
[21:01] <elitepleb> it was a quick hack job and the positive pin is the problem, the ground is still connected
[21:02] <stormbytes> anyone ever tried CHIP?
[21:02] <stormbytes> does it run debian?
[21:02] <gordonDrogon> stormbytes, why not just buy a Pi0w and see if it works in your application?
[21:02] <red9> your description seems vague so a picture would help.
[21:02] <stormbytes> gordonDrogon i have one and it does, but its not avaiable en masse
[21:02] <shiftplusone> stormbytes: and you actually have a product you want to design a the zero into?
[21:02] <stormbytes> yep
[21:03] <elitepleb> well there's not much to see, just the circle solder pad missing
[21:03] <iEv0lv3__> I got my pi Zero W, with case and heatsinks for $15 on eBay. Adagryit likes to tax that $10 for shipping
[21:03] * willy23123 (~willy2312@86-42-103-154-dynamic.agg2.lky.bge-rtd.eircom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:03] <shiftplusone> Because if that's the case, you should be talking to Raspberry Pi Trading directly and seeing what price you can get the quantity you need for.
[21:03] <stormbytes> well.. i was originally going to make my own sbc but.. at $10/board.. i'm willing to go the pizW route at least initially
[21:03] <iEv0lv3__> *adafruit
[21:03] <gordonDrogon> I'm sure that if you needed 1000's then something might be able to be arranged - like becoming an official dealer or something..
[21:03] <stormbytes> who is rpi trading
[21:03] <shauno> elitepleb, sorry, misread :) that's .. more difficult. the only other place to find that signal is stupidly small. tbh if you messed up a 0.1" pad, you're not gonna do well trying to hijack elsewhere
[21:03] <shiftplusone> gordonDrogon: nuh, no need to go that far. They're willing to sell them in medium quantities directly at a higher price.
[21:03] <plugwash> jelly, thanks a lot the feature is now in-place and working.
[21:04] <elitepleb> well the hack job was done a long time ago, any suggestion will do
[21:04] <stormbytes> shifplusone who is?
[21:04] <gordonDrogon> stormbytes, rpi trading - the commercial side of the Pi Foundation.
[21:04] <shauno> trying to find one on my desk to look at, but there should be a resistor (r75) somewhere near that pin that has the tv signal on one side. but they're the teeniest resistors you can find :/
[21:04] <stormbytes> whats a 'higher price' ? at $30/board (compute model) it totally defeats the purpose
[21:04] <red9> Is there any page that collects links to Raspberry Pi clones?
[21:05] <gordonDrogon> red9, google
[21:05] <iEv0lv3__> ^
[21:05] <elitepleb> shauno, found it, should be good enough for me since i'm much better at soldering now
[21:06] <elitepleb> thanks for the help and sorry for bothering off to fix the hack job
[21:06] <shauno> if you can make that work, you're doing better than me lol. but good luck. luckily the zero is a pretty cheap place to mess up
[21:07] <caoliver> Me hates soldering.
[21:07] <iEv0lv3__> 2:03 PM <stormbytes> well.. i was originally going to make my own sbc but.. at $10/board.. i'm willing to go the pizW route at least initially that's how I came across pi lol. Had an idea to build, found pi. Now been tinkering with it since.
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[21:09] <stormbytes> like i said.. at $10/board i can build around the Pi0. At $30/board (compute module) I would still consider it initially but.. having no wifi onboard is a deal breaker
[21:09] <stormbytes> which is why the $10/pizero-w works
[21:09] <red9> stormbytes, don't like wired connection?
[21:09] <stormbytes> i presume the qty limits will go away in a few months
[21:09] <stormbytes> red9 not for the product i have in mind
[21:10] <shauno> it's already been a few months :/
[21:10] <shiftplusone> stormbytes: some context here which you might be missing. Raspberry Pi is an education charity. The aim is to get kids into computing. The core idea is computers kids can afford and educational material to go along. Since the pi has become popular outside of that market, the trading company is happy to cater to the industrial/commercial side, but as a business, not as a charity. The aim isn't to maximize somebody else's profits, but
[21:10] <shiftplusone> to make the technology available at a reasonable price.
[21:10] * elitepleb (4e3f31be@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:10] <iEv0lv3__> stormbytes: limit won't go away in a few months, pi4 should 've coming out around feb
[21:10] <stormbytes> i spoke with a distributor today who said they expect order limits to be lifted by spring-ish 2018
[21:10] <kerio> if you're making an actual product
[21:10] <kerio> why would you go with a raspberry pi
[21:10] <iEv0lv3__> Ohh
[21:11] <stormbytes> shiftplusone i see
[21:11] <stormbytes> kerio because it works and its cheap
[21:11] <kerio> just go to shenzen for a week and get 1000 custom built PCBs
[21:11] <stormbytes> lol
[21:12] <kerio> ok not really
[21:12] <shauno> and then go to broadcom and see if they'll even answer the phone for 1000 units?
[21:12] <kerio> more like go to shenzen for a week and get 100000 custom built PCBs
[21:12] <red9> Raspberry Pi may be a education charity, but larger volume means lower unit price and greater support so. It seems self defeating except for the cases where supply is limited.
[21:12] <stormbytes> kerio those pcbs need to be designed and tested, and everything that goes along with that. THen, 1000 pcbs manufactured, assembled would cost what?
[21:12] <stormbytes> red9 that was my thought too
[21:12] <kerio> anyway the pi0w is the cutest :3
[21:13] <iEv0lv3__> 2:10 PM <kerio> if you're making an actual product. Why not?
[21:13] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-A0C4-D973-A81-A352.dyn6.twc.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:13] <kerio> because the raspberry pi is old stuff
[21:13] <kerio> and very general purpose
[21:14] <red9> Shenzen supposedly is the place where you can say.. "make me a custom laptop according to this specification" so a RPi clone seems easy.
[21:14] <iEv0lv3__> I disagree. It can be repurposed many ways
[21:14] * Simonious (~simonious@h69-21-230-45.mntimn.dedicated.static.tds.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:14] <Simonious> Four monitors, one Pi, go.
[21:14] <kerio> yes, it's very general purpose
[21:15] <kerio> which is at best useless if you're making a product out of it
[21:15] <stormbytes> the rpi is also a tested product
[21:15] <iEv0lv3__> ^
[21:15] <iEv0lv3__> And huge support community
[21:15] <kerio> yeah it's absolutely better than a random chinese SBC
[21:15] <red9> and you can google almost any aspect of it.. ;)
[21:15] <stormbytes> both software and hardware have been put together by seasoned engineers. Its value goes well beyond the board price
[21:15] <kerio> but anyway, how do you even run MAME on a raspi
[21:15] * Quatroking (~Quatrokin@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/quatroking) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:15] <red9> Except for input mode leakage current :p
[21:16] <kerio> do you limit yourself to super old games?
[21:16] <stormbytes> only thing I'm wondering is why the hardware isn't open source
[21:16] <caoliver> Though the early ones had more than a bit of flakiness.
[21:16] <shauno> and you get to stare at the antenna on the 0W and ask yourself how magnets even work
[21:16] <iEv0lv3__> What country was it a couple months back that used an rpi3 in their new rocket launchers?
[21:16] <kerio> stormbytes: GPUs be wack yo
[21:16] * immibis (~chatzilla@122-59-200-202.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] <caoliver> From my point of view, it's a cheap SBC that runs a UNIX-like environment. What's not to love.
[21:17] <kerio> ...let's not get ahead of ourselves here
[21:17] <kerio> it runs linux
[21:17] <red9> "Harisburg II running on RPi-0 with a botched soldering job for a future so bright one got to wear shades" ;)
[21:17] <caoliver> Linux is UNIX-like.
[21:18] * jdawgaz (~Jerry@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[21:18] <stormbytes> can the rpi zero w become an adhoc hotspot?
[21:18] <kerio> once freebsd supports the sdio broadcom wifi we can talk about unix :3
[21:18] <kerio> stormbytes: yes, it can do hostap
[21:18] <iEv0lv3__> 2:16 PM <kerio> do you limit yourself to super old games? No. Super Mario (whatever the new one is called) is still mario, but it isn't old
[21:18] <red9> kerio, agreed ;)
[21:18] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-A0C4-D973-A81-A352.dyn6.twc.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:18] <stormbytes> hostap?
[21:18] * caoliver thinks there is a Linux distro that is qualified as UNIX.
[21:18] <kerio> wait hold on
[21:18] <iEv0lv3__> *hostapd
[21:18] <kerio> ad-hoc is the one without any access points, right
[21:18] <kerio> infrastructure is the one with the access point
[21:18] <caoliver> UNIX-like != UNIX.
[21:19] <stormbytes> access point?
[21:19] <Simonious> open-BSD is a bit more unix-like I think
[21:19] <caoliver> You're splitting hairs.
[21:19] <kerio> HOTSPOT YO
[21:19] <plugwash> stormbytes, it can certainly become an access point, I don't know about ad-hoc
[21:19] <kerio> did you forget what you asked literally 5 seconds ago
[21:19] <stormbytes> access point with dhcp?
[21:19] <kerio> sure
[21:19] <stormbytes> yea thats' what i meant
[21:19] <kerio> that would require hostapd and either dnsmasq or dhcpd
[21:19] <stormbytes> right
[21:20] <kerio> although it's not always necessary
[21:20] <stormbytes> need to find a way to do that..
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[21:21] <kerio> install hostapd
[21:21] <iEv0lv3__> ^
[21:21] <kerio> read the confusing docs about writing a hostapd.conf file
[21:21] <stormbytes> hostapd?
[21:21] <kerio> accept that everything is garbage
[21:21] <kerio> become a farmer
[21:21] <stormbytes> lol
[21:21] <kerio> stormbytes: host-ap is the thing that lets a linux computer with a wifi network card be an access point
[21:21] <shiftplusone> close the docs and then copy configs from the forum until you find one that works.
[21:22] <stormbytes> kerio - got it
[21:22] <shauno> yeah, that's about how it works here too. open docs, go "uhhh", close docs, and google hostapd+dhcpd
[21:22] <kerio> i wrote my hostapd.conf actually :3
[21:22] <kerio> but i'm a freak
[21:22] <shauno> copy/paste something from stackexchange, and then wonder how on earth you got this job in the first place
[21:22] <stormbytes> kerio does yours work
[21:23] <iEv0lv3__> I've still yet to set mine up
[21:23] <kerio> ye but i don't have dhcp
[21:23] <stormbytes> does hostapd need dhcp?
[21:23] <kerio> i set dhcp*c*d to give my wifi card
[21:23] <kerio> and i just rely on link local addresses
[21:24] <kerio> no, hostapd is the thing that sets up the wifi
[21:24] <iEv0lv3__> this damn CLI boot is stopping me from having a headless system. Environment is xfce4, how do i disable the cli and boot right to x?
[21:24] <stormbytes> will have to dig around at some point and learn more about hostapd
[21:24] <kerio> iEv0lv3__: there's a thing in raspi-config
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[21:24] <kerio> which boils down to setting the default systemd target to "graphical" or whatever
[21:24] <iEv0lv3__> I'm not using raspian
[21:24] <kerio> lmao get rekt
[21:24] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-65-221.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:25] <iEv0lv3__> Kali linux on pi (re4son kernel)
[21:25] * BOKALDO (~BOKALDO@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:25] <iEv0lv3__> I'll find the systemmd though, thnx
[21:25] <shiftplusone> I ended up using hostapd for a new raspbian image testing setup. A pi zero w in gadget mode fetches the latest image, and serves it using g_mass_storage to another pi. That other pi connects to the AP running off the zero, then the zero can ssh in and run the necessary tests.
[21:26] <caoliver> iEv0lv3__, how does CLI boot keep you from having a headless system? I have a couple of RPi3s running Slackware ARM, and they boot just fine without the screen and keyboard.
[21:26] <shiftplusone> I was surprised that an AP+client setup for the wifi was quite simple. They just need to be on the same channel.
[21:27] <kerio> shiftplusone: that would be adhoc then
[21:27] <iEv0lv3__> caoliver: I need the graphical environment for when I vnc
[21:27] <kerio> which is badly supported by android, for instance
[21:27] <caoliver> Try XPRA perhaps.
[21:27] <caoliver> What's the client machine?
[21:28] * rpifan (~rpifan@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[21:28] <iEv0lv3__> Client is android vncviewer (tunneled through ssh)
[21:29] <caoliver> You might consider building Xvnc then.
[21:29] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-1FC-B6BE-DDAC-7511.dyn6.twc.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:29] <kerio> do you need the accelerated framebuffer?
[21:29] <kerio> because Xvnc as opposed to x11vnc would work fine
[21:30] * caoliver uses XPRA for this sort of thing, but he's not talking to Android.
[21:30] <iEv0lv3__> Not particularly, no. And the re4son kernel uses tightvnc
[21:31] <iEv0lv3__> But that not relevant rn. I just need to know how to make it boot straight to login gui, without typing "startx"
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[21:38] * wiiguy (~fake@unaffiliated/wiiguy) Quit (Quit: The Kirito is always right foundation. Grand reopening.)
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[21:41] <red9> iEv0lv3__, use /etc/rc.local?
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[21:45] * [Saint] (~quassel@rockbox/staff/saint) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:45] <iEv0lv3__> red9: it's empty
[21:46] * Gathis (~TheBlack@unaffiliated/gathis) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:46] <red9> fill it with xinit..
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[21:47] <iEv0lv3__> Sorry, never had to do this before. Xinit what?
[21:47] <iEv0lv3__> I mean, what's the full command
[21:48] <r3> iEv0lv3__: maybe this? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41021109/raspberry-pi-auto-run-gui-on-boot
[21:49] <r3> or use raspi-config?
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[21:50] <iEv0lv3__> r3: I'm not using raspian, I'm using kali
[21:52] <iEv0lv3__> My pi3 (also running kali) boots into gui just fine by default, so did the month old armel version, now suddenly a new image and..
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[21:57] <iEv0lv3__> I fixed it! 😁
[21:58] <iEv0lv3__> Had to "systemctl set-default graphical.target"
[21:58] <iEv0lv3__> Now that's out of the way, I can continue forward.
[21:59] * Silversword (~silverswo@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[22:02] <kerio> i take credit for that \o
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[22:07] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[22:07] <iEv0lv3__> kerio: that's not too humble of you, but credit is do in a way, yes😁
[22:08] * ebsen (~ebsene@2600:1014:b12a:7207:3196:ea1e:4a2c:2022) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[22:20] <caoliver> due
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[22:22] <iEv0lv3__> Oops. The grammar Nazi gets grammar nazi'd😶
[22:22] <iEv0lv3__> I was in a rush😋
[22:22] <iEv0lv3__> Lol
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[22:34] * Mad7Scientist (rep@c-98-214-102-209.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:35] <Mad7Scientist> What are people's favorite GUI programs to run on PIs?
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[22:38] * jdawgaz (~Jerry@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[22:39] <iEv0lv3__> Mad7Scientist: I haven't experimented enough and maybe it's different on arm, but gnome was always more comfortable
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[22:43] <Mad7Scientist> Do they have KDE4 on RPI?
[22:46] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-A0C4-D973-A81-A352.dyn6.twc.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:53] <red9> Raspberry are allergic to KDE. They sneeze and thus the evil SD-card flies across the room. ;-)
[22:54] <Mad7Scientist> lol
[22:54] <Mad7Scientist> I've been wondering how RPI works for running a browser. Does anyone use Seamonkey or any other firefox based browsers on it?
[22:55] <red9> I would pay attention to RAM usage..
[22:55] <Mad7Scientist> I read that the RPI 1 is like a Pentium II 300MHz or such so I'd image it's slow but how do the newer models do?
[22:55] <Mad7Scientist> Well that too
[22:55] <red9> Perhaps Palemoon is worthwhile. Or Dillo for ultralow RAM use.
[22:56] <Mad7Scientist> Yeah I know dillo
[22:56] <akk> I tried dillo for a while but there were too many pages where it didn't work.
[22:56] <red9> Well Dillo and javascript is not a thing asfair ;)
[22:56] <akk> I'm trying palemoon on my laptop (haven't tried it on pi), so far so good, certainly faster than firefox.
[22:57] * anunnaki (~chris@unaffiliated/anunnaki) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[22:57] <red9> Palemoon certainly uses less memory.
[22:57] <Mad7Scientist> I need to read up on Pale Moon
[22:57] <Syliss> yes it does
[22:57] <akk> Which isn't saying much, firefox has gotten so slow that it's like, hit pagedown, wait 45 seconds, oh, look, it finally responded.
[22:57] <red9> I would like get even lesser memory usage though.
[22:57] <Mad7Scientist> From 2011 to 2015 firefox became 3x as slow and uses almost 3x the RAM
[22:58] <akk> Agreed, Mad7Scientist
[22:58] <red9> akk, Well they are more concerned with polical agendas and pet projects than a really good browser it seems.
[22:58] <akk> I have a little browser in python+qt5+qtwebengine that I use for lightweight stuff.
[22:59] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-65-221.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[22:59] <Mad7Scientist> Dillo is nice but I wonder if there is a way to get Seamonkey 1.1.x working. It's actually almost as fast as Dillo and faster with some things. It has full CSS support and basically full Internet Explorer 6 support
[22:59] * cbdev (~fnord@hieristdas.internetzuen.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:00] * comptroller (~comptroll@47-213-225-245.paolcmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:00] <akk> qutebrowser might be something to look into: it's another python+qt5+qtwebengine thing like my script but much more fleshed out.
[23:00] <Mad7Scientist> I was just wondering if there was some secret browser that PI users had mostly :)
[23:00] <akk> Should be pretty fast.
[23:00] * jdawgaz (~Jerry@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:00] <akk> But qtwebengine uses the same layout engine as chrome so it handles most pages pretty well.
[23:00] <Mad7Scientist> IS webkit still in development?
[23:01] <akk> It doesn't seem to be. I had a python-webkit-gtk script that I gave up on because webkit has gotten so horrendously buggy.
[23:01] <Mad7Scientist> 2013 was when Chrome forked off with blink
[23:02] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0)
[23:03] <red9> HTML2.0 that was times (before the web got f%##(/&ked up).
[23:03] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:04] <Mad7Scientist> If I got 100 people together we could make a browser
[23:04] <Mad7Scientist> but nobody will want to pay for it is the problem
[23:04] <red9> only if those people are competent and focused.
[23:05] <Mad7Scientist> well yes they have to be programmers
[23:05] <red9> Make a kickstarter. Money to get of the ground and when completed it gets open sourced + open licensed.
[23:06] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:07] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:07] * TheSin (~TheSin@gateway.bluefalls.ca) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[23:07] <akk> Building a browser is fairly easy if you fork off some existing OSS project.
[23:07] <red9> Getting started on complicated matters is usually to blocking issue. Once it does work people tend to contribute.
[23:07] <akk> The hard part is keeping on top of security updates forever.
[23:07] * binaryhermit (~binaryher@belencomputers/member/binaryhermit) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:07] <red9> (ouch grammar..)
[23:08] <red9> akk, I think that's the thing. You will have to do a clean house to get an edge. Especially to tackle memory and CPU issues.
[23:09] <red9> thus no forking..
[23:09] <red9> (benefit)
[23:10] <akk> Starting from scratch is a huge project, if you have to write the whole layout engine and javascript and so forth, and deal with quirks in existing pages and so forth.
[23:10] <akk> And cross-platform rendering.
[23:10] * willy23123 (~willy2312@86-42-103-154-dynamic.agg2.lky.bge-rtd.eircom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:10] * akk has worked on browsers
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[23:11] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:11] <red9> Another issue so to trim the feature set to what is actually needed. And not what makes webdesigners salivate.
[23:12] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-96-242-33-53.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * `Lobster (~Lobster@node-1w7jr9ulb6zz462bb6kk2zcx8.ipv6.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] <red9> Less is more in order to have less coding, better memory and cpu usage, and better security.
[23:13] * cbdev (~fnord@hieristdas.internetzuen.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:14] <red9> Putting developers on RPi-2 as desktop machine will make them be more careful with code bloat ;-)
[23:14] <Mad7Scientist> What do you guys use for email on RPi?
[23:15] * silversword_afk (~silverswo@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:16] <Mad7Scientist> You know that Google does this. They promote "modern" sites and sites with lots of their own advertising. If Google gave a small rank boost to sites that used older coding standards and were more low bandwidth friendly things would change immediately!
[23:16] <caoliver> I don't. I run Sylpheed on my Slackware boxes though.
[23:16] * cyphase (~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:17] <Mad7Scientist> That's not available on Gentoo. It must not be to common.
[23:17] <caoliver> red9: I think the world would be a better place if the FreeDesktop people had to do all their development and builds on single RasPis.
[23:17] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) Quit (*.net *.split)
[23:17] <akk> I run mutt on my linux boxes. I don't use email on RPi but if I did I'd use mutt there.
[23:17] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:18] <Mad7Scientist> Just for performance or do you like the terminal interface?
[23:18] * Silversword (~silverswo@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:19] <akk> For performance and so I can drive it from the keyboard.
[23:20] * silversword_afk (~silverswo@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:21] <akk> caoliver: Software would certainly be better if developers in general used slow machines as much as possible, so they'd care about performance.
[23:22] <caoliver> I used to use mutt and elm before that.
[23:22] <akk> But you have to get all (or at least most) of the developers on the team doing it, and good luck with that with a big team.
[23:23] <caoliver> I tend to be pretty miserly even on i7 machines with mucho RAM and disk. I guess that from growing up with small PDP-11s and CP/M boxes.
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[23:24] <caoliver> s/that/thats/
[23:24] <akk> Sure, once you get in the habit. I'm the same way.
[23:24] <akk> Though actually my fastest machine is an i5, and my laptop is a lot slower.
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[23:25] * willy23123 (~willy2312@86-42-103-154-dynamic.agg2.lky.bge-rtd.eircom.net) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
[23:25] <caoliver> For me, computers got fast enough and big enough about four years ago.
[23:25] * ebsen (~ebsene@2600:1014:b12a:7207:f471:fa01:d462:a812) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:26] <caoliver> I do want a couple of 2013-1924 era Biz Dell laptops for work.
[23:26] <akk> I got in the habit of running lightweight desktops and other lightweight programs, so they've been fast enough for me for quite a while.
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[23:26] <caoliver> I've given up on the new computer smell. It's not worth it.
[23:27] <akk> As long as I don't run bloatware (*cough* firefox *cough* people who send .doc files so I have to run libreoffice)
[23:27] <caoliver> Same here. My deluxe desktop environment is fbpanel, pekwm, and rox-filer.
[23:27] <red9> Computers got fast-enough(tm) when they got into the 100 MHz / 128 MB range. More is nicer of course. But many task became then a breeze.
[23:27] <akk> I use openbox myself.
[23:28] <caoliver> Firefox is definitely bloaty. Scope creep of the net I thinks the main culprit here.
[23:28] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) Quit (*.net *.split)
[23:29] <caoliver> red9, I have some computationally expensive habits. In the box, real time, music synthesis tends to beat up on the CPU quite a bit.
[23:29] * ebsen (~ebsene@2600:1014:b12a:7207:f471:fa01:d462:a812) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:30] <red9> The Mozilla/Firefox problem is all distracting political/social projects. And pet projects that are not really related to the core mission.
[23:30] <akk> caoliver: Not entirely, firefox has always been on the bloaty side. Big development team who mostly use fast hardware.
[23:30] <caoliver> I used to diddle around with computer graphics (ray trace/radiosity), but that sort of thing's more profitably done in GPU these days.
[23:30] <akk> And yeah, it got worse because of what red9 says.
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[23:31] <caoliver> Quite a change from Berners-Lee's sleek document sharing language from the 90s.
[23:31] <red9> Meritocracy, focusing, trimmed goal list, and schredding any distraction tend to make projects succeed.
[23:31] * caoliver is feeling old all of a sudden.
[23:31] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-96-242-33-53.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: djk)
[23:32] <caoliver> Most of my current arduino/pi stuff is simplifying.
[23:32] <red9> Oh and solving the right problem rather than banging into problem sets that ain't worth it.
[23:32] <caoliver> The only concession to modernity is a LuaJIT interp tying the Pi code together.
[23:33] * JesseOor (~novocaine@unaffiliated/jesseoor) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:33] <red9> caoliver, 100% assembler. No bloat.. ever ;)
[23:33] <caoliver> Oh that? Let's force fit it into HTML. (Said daily by the mentally deficient in Silicon Valley.)
[23:33] <akk> red9: That's a big one. But OTOH, I suppose we can't blame them for some of it, since they're trying to get funding from companies that have their own agendas.
[23:33] <akk> (that = solving the right problem)
[23:34] <caoliver> 100% assembler. 100% over-budget and over-schedule.
[23:34] <gordonDrogon> caoliver, don't wory about old - there are older here - maybe not me, but others!
[23:34] <caoliver> Only half joking.
[23:34] <akk> Force-fitting into HTML is partly due to the lack of any reasonable cross-platform gui toolkit.
[23:34] <red9> Tcl/Tk? :p
[23:35] <caoliver> I wish people wouldn't get so turned-off by the Squeak widgets.
[23:35] <caoliver> (They can be changed)
[23:35] <caoliver> Smalltalk's a really nice way to do that stuff, and there a much better engines for it being written.
[23:36] <red9> LISP? ;)
[23:36] * caoliver lurves Lisp.
[23:36] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[23:36] <akk> I don't even know what squeak is. Part of scratch?
[23:36] <caoliver> I use LuaJIT as a modern compromise. ;)
[23:36] <akk> aptitude search squeak doesn't show an obvious way to install said widgets.
[23:36] <caoliver> It's a Smalltalk environment.
[23:36] <gordonDrogon> (Punk Rock) BASIC programmer here..
[23:37] <caoliver> Scratch was originally done on Squeak, but I think it's ported somewhere else now.
[23:37] <red9> IE7 is probably done in quick basic :P
[23:37] <akk> Personally I wish we'd just stuck with Motif, which shows you how old I am.
[23:37] * caoliver started with MUBAS (multi-user BASIC) on a PDP-11/34.
[23:37] <caoliver> So I'm likely older. ;)
[23:37] <gordonDrogon> probably.
[23:38] <red9> caoliver, guess you didn't get started with a home computer until a lot later then?
[23:38] <caoliver> Nope. Home computers were Altair 8008 then.
[23:38] <akk> I started on a PDP-11/34 too! (After a couple of BASIC workstations.) But it didn't have BASIC, only C and Lisp.
[23:38] <caoliver> Expensive/clumsy/slow.
[23:38] <akk> (And I think snobol, but I never learned that.)
[23:38] <akk> Home computers were quite expensive in the PDP-11 days.
[23:39] * gordonDrogon fires up his pdp-8..
[23:39] <red9> I think a partial source of the problems is that groups of people are so titilated by graphical eye candy. And men-in-suits from big-corp that sells them.
[23:39] <caoliver> PDP-11 would be a pretty small machine to run Lisp on. PDP-10 mainframes were a big part of the history (MacLisp).
[23:40] <mlelstv> it's the people that buy the eye-candy....
[23:40] <caoliver> And eyecandy certainly eats RAM, rust, and cycles.
[23:40] <akk> Yeah, I'm sure I couldn't have done anything serious in Lisp on that machine.
[23:40] <akk> I played with it a little, and when I found a notebook from those days I had to laugh at how little I grokked Lisp.
[23:40] <caoliver> I will admit to being suckers in by NCSA Mosaic and Tumbling Duke when they respectively came out.
[23:41] <caoliver> I never wrote Java except for a toy problem from the BlueJ book.
[23:41] <caoliver> It drew the wrong crowd.
[23:42] <akk> When java first came out I thought applets were the coolest. Then it turned into a server-side language and I had a brief painful encounter with that.
[23:42] <gordonDrogon> I really never got into the lisp stuff. got thrown at prolog for a while as it was popular in edinburgh, but never thought it would catch on...
[23:42] <red9> The Jupiter Ace with 8-bit CPU @ 3.5 MHz and 1 kB RAM running Forth. Now that's efficiency.
[23:42] <akk> Now java is the feeling of dread when I find a bug in one of my android apps and have to spend a day wrestling with java
[23:42] <gordonDrogon> there is one for sale one ebay right now - only �450.
[23:42] <akk> to do something that I could do in 10 minutes in Python if only it worked on android.
[23:43] <gordonDrogon> oh, looks like that sold - howeve rthere's another for �399.
[23:43] * m_t (~m_t@p5DDA32ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:44] <gordonDrogon> Hm. I'm almost tempted.
[23:44] <red9> Why no Python language interpretator on Android? seems like a no-brainer?
[23:45] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:45] * TheWarden (~chatzilla@ Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93-rdmsoft [XULRunner 41.0.2/20171112134802])
[23:45] * Goldschlager120 (~Goldschla@24-111-126-57-dynamic.midco.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:45] <akk> Somebody at google wrote one once, but later google (management, I guess) disabled it.
[23:45] <akk> I never saw any explanation.
[23:45] <red9> For those that got into the computers at the PDP/11 era. Was it unrealistic to solder ones own computer and get ahead of the access game?
[23:45] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-A0C4-D973-A81-A352.dyn6.twc.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:45] <Goldschlager120> anyone do any rpi projects with echolink?
[23:45] <red9> akk, Another source of problem. Management..
[23:46] <red9> echolink is?
[23:46] <akk> red9: Heathkit had the H8 and H11 wich were basically kits to make something like a personal PDP-8 or 11, but they were still a bit pricey.
[23:46] <gordonDrogon> red9, the soldering ones were Altair of that time. Also the Mk14 in the UK, although that was '77.
[23:46] * cbdev (~fnord@hieristdas.internetzuen.de) Quit (Quit: this should probably not have happened)
[23:46] <Goldschlager120> ham radio though internet to connect to different stations
[23:47] <gordonDrogon> https://unicorn.drogon.net/stuff/mk14.jpg
[23:47] <red9> Otoh.. I think it may now actually may be possible to make stuff the presumes some basic technology competence. And not cater to the GUI details drolling crowd.
[23:48] <red9> gordonDrogon, ml14 the "Raspberry" of it's day ;)
[23:49] <red9> s/it's/its/
[23:49] <gordonDrogon> Hm.. not sure - most would say the bbc micro in '82.
[23:49] <caoliver> red9: two things I want to get down: forth and QNX (maybe NUTTX).
[23:50] <gordonDrogon> but by then we'd had 4 years of the Apple II and the ZX80/81 with the spectrum on the horizon.
[23:50] <caoliver> I need an understanding of at least one POSIX based RTOS.
[23:50] <red9> Wasn't that very pricey and incapable compared to say Commodore 64 ?
[23:50] <gordonDrogon> I don't recall - I never got into the C64 machines because.. well, Apple and BBC..
[23:50] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:50] * yeticry (~yeticry@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[23:51] <gordonDrogon> th C64 was essentially a colour PET and I never liked them.
[23:51] <red9> caoliver, What makes Forth and QNX/NUTTY interesting for you?
[23:51] <caoliver> Forth: very small stack based language. I already write PostScript.
[23:52] <caoliver> QNX or NUTTX: I should have some experience in an RTOS for commercial reasons.
[23:52] * xavkno (~Xavkno@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:52] <caoliver> I guy who I nearly worked for was a big forth dude.
[23:53] <gordonDrogon> https://unicorn.drogon.net/stuff/mk14-e.jpg <- computer says no..
[23:53] <caoliver> He does oil and pipe line telemetry stuff.
[23:53] <gordonDrogon> I ported Suns OBP which is forth to a new sparc platform once upon a time.
[23:53] <caoliver> He does oil and GAS pipeline telemetry stuff.
[23:53] <SynfulAck> gordonDrogon, any idea how long these things will go for until needing another charge? https://thepihut.com/blogs/raspberry-pi-tutorials/17209332-adding-a-real-time-clock-to-your-raspberry-pi
[23:53] <red9> caoliver, Seems postscript is on the way out for laserprinters though. (pdf instead)
[23:54] <gordonDrogon> SynfulAck, no idea really, but most RTCs are good for a year or 2.
[23:54] <caoliver> I remember the "Ok" when you hit L1/A.
[23:54] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:54] <caoliver> I didn't know any forth otherwise I might have played some awful pranks.
[23:55] * xavkno (~Xavkno@ Quit (Client Quit)
[23:55] <caoliver> red9: really. PDF in the hardware? Yuck!
[23:55] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] <gordonDrogon> SynfulAck, it has a little coin cell underneath.
[23:56] <SynfulAck> gordonDrogon, omg wat, the damn thing can go on for a years worth of time. Why cant my pi atleast do 1/3 of that :*(
[23:56] <red9> gordonDrogon, OBP?
[23:56] <caoliver> OpenBoot
[23:56] <gordonDrogon> ^
[23:56] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:56] <caoliver> Good Stuff. I wish PCs had something that interesting.
[23:56] <gordonDrogon> it was a clever idea - plug-in s-bus cards had roms on-board that had compiled forth byte-code in them.
[23:56] <caoliver> gordonDrogon, I gather you're a Sun alum.
[23:57] <gordonDrogon> it was developed on the last gen. 68040 suns and the early Sun4/sparc stuff.
[23:57] <gordonDrogon> caoliver, no - I never worked for Sun - we were making our own sparc based boards from scratch.
[23:57] <caoliver> Good. You didn't have to run away from Larry. ;)
[23:57] <gordonDrogon> long story for another day as it's past my bed time now.
[23:58] <caoliver> 'nite, mate!
[23:58] * cbdev (~fnord@hieristdas.internetzuen.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:58] <caoliver> Now I really should get groceries. Asian market closes in an hour.
[23:58] <caoliver> C'ya folk!
[23:58] <gordonDrogon> http://unicorn.drogon.net/cs2.gif is a supercomputer (of it's day) with 300 sparc based boards in it.
[23:58] <red9> Obviously different time zones here ;)
[23:59] <gordonDrogon> uk/11pm
[23:59] * `Lobster (~Lobster@node-1w7jr9ulb6zz462bb6kk2zcx8.ipv6.telus.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)

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